Is Hypersexuality a Trauma Response to Betrayal?

Is hypersexuality a trauma response to being cheated on? Why on earth would we want to sleep with the person who just gutted us with betrayal? Why you should NOT have sex with your ex.
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Dear Chump Lady,
I’m having a really hard time.
I was in a 4 year relationship with a cheater and married him in September.
We met through an online game, and after a month, we met, and since then we were inseparable. We even built the house of our dreams and played together, despite having our respective careers and demanding jobs.
He had a female virtual best friend, who was ‘only a friend’ that was in his life before I met him. They only met twice, once in August 2024 and on our wedding day.
Two months after we got married, he asked me for a break.
Two weeks later he dumped me, and asked for ‘separation’ because he saw this ‘best friend’ and told me he is in love with her. Also he told me ‘I’m old”, ‘I have a confrontational personality’ and ‘I’m always tired’. But! and — hear me out — he loved me when we married and suddenly he stopped loving me!
When I asked him for the details, he confirmed that cheated physically on me the day before. Emotionally, I’m not sure… (he says she confessed her feelings after we returned from our honeymoon).
I dumped him from our house, told anyone that met us that I was separating because he cheated on me, and started the divorce. The trust was broken and he hurt me deeply.
I made an agreement when I claimed all the money I’m entitled to for the distress. We don’t have kids, so it will be fast.
But, I still love him, and I still want him badly.
My mind was quick to make an action plan, but my body and my heart, can’t resist the slightest sexy memory. I think about him and get aroused. Despite all the things he did, I’m afraid that I would do if he kissed me or touched me, because I know my body still react to his memory.
Hugs for you, and thanks for everything.
GamerChump
***
Dear GamerChump,
Oh the mortifying memory of hysterical bonding. Otherwise known as hypersexuality as trauma response. Or what I call the pick me dance performed naked.
Please do NOT have sex with your ex.
This is a terrible idea for several obvious reasons.
- You cannot be vulnerable with your abuser.
- Rewarding him with any attention will backfire.
- Intimacy will put you at risk emotionally and physically.
The person who harmed you cannot heal you.
If he was a person with integrity capable of compassion he would not be a cheater. It’s a very human impulse to want comfort when you’re in crisis, but he’s the FW who created the crisis. You miss the lie. The actual person you married is the fraud who CHEATED ON YOU THE DAY BEFORE YOUR WEDDING! Game OVER. This has been a sham from the start.
He does not deserve the best of you.
Do NOT reward this man. Do not perform the pick me dance naked. What feels like intense longing now will feel like deep mortification later. Ask a few gazillion of us how we know.
Sleeping with your ex can harm your health.
You do not know where that dick has been. Anyone capable of this much duplicity is not someone to trust with your sexual health. Besides the obvious risk of STDs, there’s your emotional health to consider as well. Every encounter with this creep is another chance he has to reject and hurt you. Maintain strict no contact. It’s the fastest way to heal.
Now that I’ve told you what not to do, let’s explore why sexual longing after betrayal is even a thing. If you google “hypersexuality as a trauma response” sadly, you get a lot of bullshit about sex addiction. How every narcissistic FW is a traumatized child acting out their sexual dysfunction on innocents. Maybe that’s a thing. I leave it to the mental health professionals, but I think it’s far more likely that FWs (or “sex addicts” or whatever you wish to call them) have personality disorders. Entitlement works for them because their empathy synapses don’t fire.
But hysterical bonding, or feeling horny after betrayal is an actual phenomena for chumps.
Why are you having sexual urges now? To feel in control.
Your whole world has blown up. This man built you up — had you invest deeply in a shared life — only to detonate the entire thing and blame you for it. That is a very powerless place to be.
But Girlfriend, you took the reins. You filed for divorce! You’re going after the money. Your emotions just need to catch up. The sexual longing you feel is an emotional hallucination that you could win him back. Or turn back time to when his attention was fully upon you.
The terrible thing is, that intimacy you miss and long for never existed. He was playing a game — literally and figuratively. And let that comfort you now. He doesn’t love his “BFF” either. She’s a toy on a board he can manipulate at will.
Get yourself a vibrator and stay no contact. It gets better. Save your lusty self for a partner who deserves you.
***
CN — Friday Challenge — did you have sex with your cheater after D-Day? Or struggle with longing for a FW?

GamerCHump,
If I may be so bold, I’m going to go a step further than CL.
Not only should you go no contact/refrain from having sex with your STBX, I would strongly recommend that you avoid embarking on any other relationship (sexual or emotional) with anyone else either for a little while, at least until things have settled down, you’ve finalised your divorce and you are well into whatever your “new normal” looks like. To do so before that risks you (or others) getting hurt.
CL will often use the phrase “Fix your picker” ….. in your shoes I’d look to do just that.
LFTT
👏
No contact with the opposit sex is the key…you are just too vulnerable. Wait to heal. I agree
Hi LookingForwardsToTuesday!
I don’t want right now to be in a relationship neither have sex with anyone (but him, ironically). I want to focus on arriving at my new apartment, focus on my career and start a new life without him.
I think it would be irresponsible to start a bond with someone, when I didn’t stop loving the Cheater (a process).
Thanks truly for the advice.
My advice is to stay busy. Fill up your time with reading, hobbies, friends. Take on new projects at work. Learn a new skill. It’s counterintuitive when you’re dealing with grief but I found as I filled my life with new things, the pain lessened and one day I found I didn’t care about the ex at all.
One of the best things I ever did was start a Pinterest board. It was a fun, low effort way to start making collages of things that caught my interest. It taught me a lot about myself, which I desperately needed after all the abuse.
Pinterest made me realize I love old films, French and Mexican cooking, and experimenting with makeup. It got me thinking about what I wanted to explore, and where I wanted to spend my time. It got me to find a gym and start weightlifting, to study Spanish. 10/10 recommended.
Hey Gamer Chump, of course you can’t change gears that fast (from head-over-heels in love to … well, meh is what we aim for here, and you will get there. In time. On Tuesday)
if you don’t already, get yourself a good vibrator. I was glad someone told me about the “bunny” ones (they are very cool and stylish and not at all porno).
Yes, I was going to add this. I went through a horrific re-abusing myself with other men. It hurt me, and it hurt my children. I am working on forgiving myself now. that- finally!- took forever!- I am able to see my marriage as a DV one. There’s a new book by Jen Percy called Girls Play Dead, which talks about all sorts of responses to sexual trauma.
I was happily surprised to see that my local library already has this book on order. Looks like a good read, as I’m currently trying to EMDR my way out of this exact baggage.
I’ll check out that book!
In some places sleeping with your spouse after you discover cheating can have legal ramifications as well. Your argument in court for infidelity can be undone. If you are legally married, consult a good attorney before taking any other steps!
That pisses me off so much. Not proud to admit that I did have sex with my ex after D-Day. I was really not in my right mind for quite some time, lol. That puts it lightly. Obviously, I shouldn’t have and I don’t recommend it to anyone. But that all said, I truly don’t understand the justification of that in the legal process.
It almost feels like the court system thought “gee, too many horny FWs out here cheating and causing our courts to be positively FLOODED with divorce litigation. I know what we can do! Let’s make cases of adultery null and void if the Chump sleeps with them post D-Day. That ought to cut down our numbers significantly.”
It can’t be that simple. But I just don’t umnderstand what the logic is otherwise. It is like they are saying “you didn’t perform as the perfect victm and therefore the abuse doesn’t matter anymore”.
It didn’t matter in my divorce as adultery isn’t considered in a divorce other than in regards to marital funds if they were involved. But I can’t help but be outraged by that law in other states.
In Georgia it is called condonation, and pretty much negates a spouse’s infidelity.
This is so awful but not surprising.
Yes! I’ve told this story before, but my ex casually shared this little fact after he sweet talked a very confused and hurt me into sleeping with him one last time. Absolutely disgusting and revealed him unequivocally as the enemy. Whether they can or can’t get away with their behavior legally due to this gross loophole, it should make your nether regions clamp shut for a good long time.
My husband started having sex with me a lot when he knew it was the end..like, gonna do this before I leave. Months. Sickens me.
Hi CountryChumpkin!
In my country this is not contemplated, and laws here doesn’t establish a ‘guilty’ part in a divorce, yet you can still sue them for emotional distress, and if I sleep with him, I can lose money hahahah.
Thanks for mentioning this. I meant to add that point. She’s not in the US, but still.
Not quite following the timeline — whether he cheated the day after the wedding, or two months later. Anyway … makes no difference. It’s vile. He loved you and then “suddenly stopped” two months later? This is ridiculous on its face, truly.
He has crappy character. Game over.
Hi FYI!
He cheated two months after our wedding, and he was stone cold about his feelings too.
Still a hard pill to swallow.
Yes, I had sex with my f-wit after D-day, and can validate everything Chump Lady advises to Gamer Chump.
After I foolishly fell for his sad sausage narrative, I danced the naked, horizontal pick-me dance to the tune of his secret sexual basement perversions. For EIGHT MONTHS! Somehow I convinced myself that doing so was to my benefit. I wrote to my closest friend from graduate school to say I didn’t know how long I’d be willing to live with him, but “for now” I’m having great sex–as if my behavior was the result of a coldly rational decision and I could shuck him off at any time. I deluded myself into believing I was unaffected by the trauma of his disclosure and his behavior, and his casting me in a drama of his making and direction, in which I wasn’t even a bit player but a prop, an object, to be used to gratify him.
How I wish I’d encountered CL earlier and read her 2013 post on hysterical bonding. Maybe I could have taken to heart the wisdom there–that I was traumatized, that I was casting about for how to control the damage, and that my self-delusion was a trauma response. I might have been reminded of what I already knew: that my past in my FOO predisposed me to use my body and sexuality to pull him back to me. My father sexually abused me when I was a young girl, and my response to that trauma was to blame myself, as if my body must have somehow been irresistible to him and therefore his actions were my fault. (This is, by the way, a common reaction of child sex abuse victims, particularly incest victims, who occupy a no man’s land in which they must negotiate the violation and their need and love for a parent.) I might have recognized my behavior with my then-husband as part of this complex of trauma, that of my ex’s bomb drop and that of my past.
One thing that helped me see the light was that someone told me that they had had an “aha moment” when they realized that seeking comfort from the very person who had hurt them was was like trying to get blood from a stone. That, together with my ex’s increasing cruelty and the escalation of the very behavior I was desperately trying to get him to see was not who he was finally opened my eyes and admit to the damage I was doing to myself by having sex with him. (And yes, everything I thought was “not who he was” turned out to be exactly “who he was.”)
Thank you so much for sharing your experience Adelante (fellow spanish speaker? ¡Acá también!).
When I read you I realize that if he came back to me sexually, will be for confort and familiarity, not for love, not for choosing me. It will be using me with a purpose.
Why people is so selfish?
Narcissistic personality disordered people are so horribly selfish it’s hard to imagine. Escape! Look up medical images of sexually transmitted diseases. Get a vibrator!
My Ex FW narcopath did something similar to me. Around the time of our engagement/ WEDDING, he cheated with a woman “friend” he knew before me. This was D day #1.
Young and stupid me went through useless counselors and reconciled.
Nearly 30 years later my life and worse my children’s lives are destroyed: FW had been cheating most of the marriage and I had no idea until D day #2, 3,4,5,6 all happened within a year.
I wasted my youth and my life on a narcissistic monster.
Remember my story if you are tempted sexually. I too did the sexual hysterical bonding both rounds of D day.
By the way, I now have fantastic sex with someone who loves me deeply, and it’s so much better than anything I ever had with FW ex. I had forgotten what an unselfish lover was like. The real intimacy and passion is so shockingly different from sex with FW. It made me sad and angry and disgusted, realizing FW was a sparkly TURD in every sense of the word, even in the bedroom.
Clowns like him are selfish because they’re horrible people with no decency or integrity. It’s really not any more complicated than that. He also sounds manipulative, so avoid being alone with him. He is probably going to try to manipulate you into sex. Be prepared and keep strict no contact unless it’s absolutely necessary to talk to him about legal matters, and even then you have to keep it brief and impersonal. Text or email is best, not the phone. That way you have a record of everything he says in case you need it. If he tries to get flirty or make you feel sorry for him, end the conversation immediately.
Be assured that your feelings for him will pass with time and lack of contact. Wishing the best of luck to you with the divorce.
I posted a few weeks ago that this happened to me. It was at year 18 of what ended up being a 26 year marriage right when he told me that he didnt love me and was leaving because I was “a bad wife” but I later learned there was an OW (I thought this OW was the only OW but learned years later, after he died that there were many others).
Anyhoo…the experience was bazaar and I WAS definitely doing the very thing CL warned us not to do ( seek healing from the person who harmed me). I was a bit of a trad wife at the time and hoping God would bless us with a loving marriage. I think a few subconscious concepts were swirling around in my head at the same time and hyper sexual interest in my then-husband was the result.
Maybe this will be helpful for readers, so I will be specific…the ideas which likely contributed to this for me were:
1) trying to reclaim my turf…according to my theology, he was MY husband, so his sexuality belonged to me and I was intent on claiming it
2) if he really left me (he was in a weird limbo of claiming he was leaving then he didnt leave) then it would be years before I had a divorce & annulment and could have church-sanctioned sex (its now bazaar to me that was so important…I quit caring about that at some point).
3) Im sure I was trying to show/prove that I was the better partner (I should have been concerned if he was a crap partner).
4) I think I was desperate to DO SOMETHING in a moment when I felt I had so little power over my own life.
It was such an intense and strange time. If memory serves, it lasted about 3 months and then morphed into whatever hellish mess came after it. It was surely ill-advised but luckily did not result in any serious or permanent harm and in retrospect, Im secretly pleased that I messed up his narrative and grand plan in some sort of way. Im so very glad that I didnt choose to go outside the marriage for fulfillment in that moment, it would have muddied the waters terribly and hurt me (in many ways) in the long run.
Looking back (now years later) Im still shocked at the degree of intensity of the physical manifestation this experience created in me. I wish that I had had a forum like this to tell me what the Hell was going on in me…it would have made it easier for me to ride this temporary situation out. I am, however, gentle with myself in that I dont beat myself up for an internal feeling which I was not ready for…my poor addled mind was seeking solution and solace and that was a straw I momentarily grasped at.
Indeed you should be kind with yourself and be amazed by the capability you had for trying to rebuild something and honor your traditions.
I think you are wonderful, thank you for sharing this with me and I hope you are happy now.
Same here. 1, 3, and 4. I was going to give him the best sex ever and “win” him back. Now I have nothing but regret. It was another 8 years until I filed for divorce. Now I see him and ask how on earth I wanted to win THAT.
Looking back I understand now that I wasn’t making up with Cheaty after a fight with a rousing round of physical intimacy in order to reestablish our bond. I was merely reinforcing the trauma bond he had created because there was no true emotional or physical intimacy in our relationship.
No contact is truly the only way to begin clearing your head of their manipulative mind games.
“No contact is truly the only way to begin clearing your head of their manipulative mind games.”
This really can’t be overstated. I think when I first learned what No Contact was, it sounded like good advice, but I also saw it as being more about “cut that FW out of your life because they don’t deserve access to you”. And that is true, they do not deserve access to you.
But I think it is important for the newly chumped to understand it goes much deeper. Cutting the contact gets your head out of the fog. It allows you to sit back and just see the reality of the situation with less of the sad emotions that make us want to cling onto what is ultimately not a good relationship.
It took me a very long time to go low contact (low because we have kids and “no contact” isn’t entirely possible in that case). It was years between D-Day and him moving out. Then once he was out, I still had so much contact with him for over a year. And it was not pleasant. Sometimes it seemed like it was. If he was in a good mood, we’d get along great and it looked like “oh, what great co-parnting they are doig, spending time together for the kids”. But that was actually not good for me, how do you move on or heal when you are still interacting that much? It also allowed him to continue the emotional/verbal abuse, which gee, if you are separated, and are dealing with all the hard/scary parts of ending your marriage shouldn’t you at least get the benefit of no longer dealing with the bad parts?
All that said, even that small bit of distance, where I wasn’t living with him? It gave me some perspective. I started to realize that it was not ok that he still used me as his emotional punching bag. And one day, the verbal abuse got so bad that something finally clicked after decades of dealing with him,. “This is a cycle of abuse and it won’t end until I do something to stop the cycle”. That is a realization I am not sure I ever would have had if I didn’t have some distance. I cut all contact other than kid stuff that can’t be avoided. He still acts like a FW, but I don’t engage with it. This makes him freak outs less fun for him so they are fewer, though not gone. And over time my boundaries have grown stronger and stronger. I see him more clearly. I see what our marriage was more clearly.
No contact is so much more than just avoiding a FW. It is was so incredibly central to my healing.
Oh, and GamerChump, as an aside, once my eyes really opened to who he was? Any sexual thoughts re him now cause my vagine to crawl down my leg, out the front door and then she hides under a rosebush in the yard for a few days just to be sure the coast is clear. You too will get past any lingering attachmrents. It takes time and distance.
Thank you so much for your insight.
I’m starting to think this myself, and how devastating will be the aftersex.
As CL says, we bond, they don’t. It was such a revelation to finally wrap my mind around that. He was a shark-eyed, hollow chocolate bunny of a human being. Physical intimacy was no more than any other bodily function to him, like taking a dump.
“No contact is truly the only way to begin clearing your head of their manipulative mind games.”
Now that you mention it, the FW used to make taking a dump as overly showy and dramatic as sex became by the end. Performative and overly discussed. LOL
I’m going to raise my hand and admit to the embarrassing pick-me-dance I did in the bedroom after DDay. I mean, I was gonna make sure he knew what he had in me as a wife! I bought sexy lingerie and had so much sex with him – see, I’m winning! Take that, AP!
And then the Ex told me how he finally felt like he had what he deserved, a wife and an affair partner, and he felt like a king. Those moments when he was actually honest really punched me in the gut. Who is this guy? Not the person I thought I was married to for 15 years.
I’m grateful I found this community and my sanity after 6 months of the bedroom pick me dance, and I’m so grateful not to be married to that monster anymore. But “coparenting” is a much longer road – I’m just grateful each time my kids come back in one piece 🤪
He doesn’t deserve you and definitely loves his ego more than you and the AP!
Thanks for your insight.
GamerChump, in case nobody has said this–go get tested for STIs. You don’t know where that thing has been. It’s very common for cheaters to skip using protection. IDK why. They are freaks.
The cheater in your life is not really the person who showed up and seemed to fit perfectly into your life. It was a mask. These guys (women do it, too) pretend to be what you need so they’ll get what they need. I was married for 25 years and had a bunch of kids with a cheater. When he fell in “love” with the other woman (I use quotes because they are not capable of love), he suddenly started caring about stuff she was interested in. He had never paid any attention to those things before. He was turning himself into her ideal.
Cheaters are fakes. Don’t have sex with a fake human.
“he suddenly started caring about stuff she was interested in. He had never paid any attention to those things before. He was turning himself into her ideal.”
Mine did this too. But to add to the weirdness? The stuff he started getting into that I later found out was because of his AP? It was stuff he held disdain for previously.
The switch was so out of character and bizarre that I seriously worried at one point that he had a brain tumor. When I first found CL/CN I read all the archives and comment sections and there were many chumps that also at one point seriously suspected brain tumors in their FWs. It made me wonder what he was like with the gf he hasd before me? What things did she like that he took for himself?
Same. He went from not really giving a damn about the environment to yelling at me for not doing a good job recycling. Lots of stuff like that. And yes, I considered a brain tumor, too. I have since found that it’s common for the unsuspecting partner to wonder about a brain tumor. Because they are all fake. What they “care” about when they are with partner #1 doesn’t really matter to them, either. They can have an apparent personality change because they just put on whatever personality helps them get what they want.
His affair eventually ended and he ended up with a new gf post separation. I saw evidence of more changes then too. He started shopping in really high end stores and buying clothes that were just so completely opposite of what he had worn for decades. Nothing wrong with the clothes he chose, but it was absolutely hilarious to me that he bought mint green Bermuda shorts. The man had not worn a pair of Bermuda shorts in the 30 years I had known him, nor had he ever worn a pastel. They are just shorts, but it was just such a bizarre thing because it was so out of character for him. My only guess was I knew he had recently met the new GFs friends and their significant others. Presumably those men were dressed like that.
That relationship also ended. He now has yet another serious relatonship. Gotta wonder what facade he now applies.
The FWs that do this are all just putting on new skins over their empty souless bodies. It is creepy but also kind of fascinating. Especially when I see that other Chumps like you saw equally bizarre flips.
I cried when I went in to do my STI panel after DDay. It felt embarrassing that I had to do that when I was married for 15 years, like how could I not know. It was an emotional time overall. I’m not sure the staff knew how to handle all my tears. 🤷🏼♀️
You can’t be the only person that ever was reduced to tears in a docs office for this exact reason. I didn’t ask for the panel, but I did tell my ob/gyn what I was going through to explain how stressed I had been and she suggested it. Not even in a “would you like me to run an STI panel?” but more “we are going to run a panel”. Very matter of fact and firm. It wasn’t until much later that I realized how helpful that approach was. None of us should be embarrassed for getting tested, obviously. But sure, I think lots of us are anyway, and she made it seem like she was suggesting a flu shot or mammogram.
For the docs it is like a flu shot or a mammo. They have seen everything on this big blue marble. Just like first responders of any profession, they have seen the best and the worst, the good and the bad, the up and the down. No Chump, male or female, should be ashamed or embarrassed by what someone else did to them. It’s not our shame to bear.
Thanks for caring, Elizabeth.
I am waiting my STI results.
I choose to believe that somewhat my husband died, and some evil twin who claim to be his, took his place. Right now, I’m grieving him, but sometimes my heart play tricks on me.
When cheaters/abusers say “You don’t love or let me be my true self,” I think what they actually mean is that you won’t let them simply presto-chango shape-shift into the next false fantasy self they’re cosplaying at in order to get kibble or achieve a particular goal.
I thought Robert Altman’s The Player was brilliant in a way that many people missed, which is that the lead character doesn’t “lose” his soul or “sell out” when he shifts from Mr. Bumbling Woke into a sociopathic producer cyborg and unceremoniously dumps his long term sincere girlfriend (literally stepping over her bleeding body in one scene). The point is that Tim Robbins’ Griffin Mill character never had a soul or a self to begin with and simply meets a similarly soulless woman (who reports feeling nothing when her parents died) who gives him permission and elbow room to be this way full time. She “lets” him be as sociopathic as he needs to be to succeed in that industry in other words.
The soul less no real personality shape shifting you describe is how the trauma trained marriage counselor described FW narcopath in a private session.
Then she told me to RUN
Makes me think of Monty Python. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk
Seriously, most abusers try to present as harmless and often (like those roid-addicted massive body builders, interestingly enough), seem to actually perceive themselves as tiny, timid, vulnerable creatures.
“he suddenly started caring about stuff she was interested in.”
Ditto. Example: He hated Mickey D’s. Whenever I rarely suggested we go to McDonald’s he would actually get angry. “It’s trash food, why do you eat that crap, I can’t believe you, you’re gong to die young…” After D-Day when he regaled me with tales of his adventures in infidelity he would say “We went to McDonald’s – they have great fries. She loves McDonalds.” He didn’t love McDonald’s, he loved illicit sex, and trash food and an early death were worth it I guess.
I posted above that mine did the whole morphing into a new person thing. I saw it twice because I was privvy to how he acted through his affair AND his next gf when the affair ended.
He was always a diehard starbucks guy. I could always do either, but had a slight preference for Dunks. And as they were more prevalent in our area and cheaper, I would have preferred Dunks, but he was adamant.
Once with the new gf, my kids noticed that he swapped to Dunkin Donuts. In the decades we were together? He would make me pass 20 Dunks to get him to a Starbucks even if it was 30 minutes out of our way.
I don’t care what coffee he drinks obviously, but it was jsut so bizarre. Even the kids were like “what? you are drinking a blueberry pie flavored iced coffee from Dunks??” My youngest found it particularly annoying because there were drinks and treats they liked at Dunks and he would never go there for them.
I don’t mean to imply that he died – he’s still alive and eating McDonald’s despite his mini-stroke a couple of years into his affair.
The AP in my situation was a junk food junkie as well. So it’s interesting that FW– who was raised vegetarian by a yogazilla mom and, even after he stared eating meat as an adult, insisted on organic– suddenly began eating ultraprocessed, overpriced bistro “junk food” as well as fast food and boxed mac & cheese (the only thing the AP could cook). He also got bizarrely righteous about eating shit as if he’d always preferred it and had only eaten crunchy because I forced him.
But even before the weird 180 and righteousness over diet (which made me think he had gone mad or developed a brain tumor), you could say the first visible sign of cheating was finding candy wrappers in FWs pockets. The next clue was how his once flat gut began cantilevering over his belt so that he and the AP had his & hers muffin tops, beer guts and apple shaped bodies. By the end, FWs blood pressure shot from 106/65 to 140/80 in the space of 18 months and his liver was visibly distended.
It’s tempting to chalk it up to social Darwinism that garden variety APs seem to have unhealthy lifestyles and even cheaters who hadn’t formerly been UPF consumers often follow suit. Some might argue that it’s because cheaters often pursue younger APs who are still sowing oats and on the party circuit. All the same, studies on “mate poachers” all report higher psychopathy and psychopathy is associated with poor habits, high risk lifestyle, high addiction rates and poor health outcomes. All of this might account for the fact that even cheaters who try to chase youth with manic grooming and gym binges are still more likely to die prematurely from cardiac events.
LOL. I mentioned my brain tumor suspicions elsewhere on this thread. It is so crazy how they all do these things that are SUCH bizarre changes!!!
Don’t get me started (oops, too late) about how those “changes” are almost exactly like the presto-chango sudden shift of beta apes who can go from seamlessly fawning adoration for alphas to Clockwork Orange, throat-ripping takedowns the instant the alphas show a single sign of weakness or loss of coalitionary support.
I suspect not even the betas know they’re capable of pulling coups like this, probably because alphas (like human abusers) tend to have almost telepathic senses of who might secretly be rebelling. Consequently, the only way to survive and avoid incurring alphas’ wrath is for betas to remain in complete, cellular-level denial of their own intent until the very moment opportunity presents itself.
The point is not that the inconstancy of cheaters is natural, therefore acceptable, because it has evolutionary roots. The point is that abusers all act exactly the same because they all become Bonzo the chimp. Also because our closest ape cousins are a “conservative” species in an evolutionary sense and extremely slow to accrue mutations (they arguably haven’t changed much since they branched off from common ancestors), that means that most chimps are pretty predictable. It would follow that, the more chimp-like humans become, the more same, gray and predictable they become as well because all our originality and individuality arise from higher human civilized traits.
In fact, whenever you hear about some sweet, loyal (well, not sexually loyal because bonobos are indiscriminate horndogs but at least consistent in love and affection) and exceptionally clever and talented “chimp” in a nature program, they always turn out to be bonobos which we’re not as closely related to. But, for some reason, it’s a typical “fraud” in nature shows to leave that fact out. I guess the audience wouldn’t find the programs as appealing if we learned our closer cousins are a bunch of violent, warring rapists who are mostly incapable of anything beyond passing shows of affection but not enduring loyalty.
Anyway, that there’s muh theory. I think I have monkeys on the brain because my daughter and I heard an NPR segment in the car about “Garbo the wild chimp” who spent her later years being massaged and fed snack by her adoring adult sons. My daughter immediately said, “Bet she’s a bonobo.” We looked it up when we got home and, sure enough, the segment hosts and the researchers they interviewed never admitted this, repeatedly calling Garbo and her troop “chimpanzees.”
Gaah. I think this is for the same reason Esther Perel has been on NPR repeatedly but never anyone framing cheating as abuse. Pretending we evolved from bonobo-like ancestors is a way to pretend that it won’t require constant vigilance and intense effort by every generation to tamp down patriarchal rape culture and achieve anything close to equality or more peaceful societies. The many Harvey Weinsteins and Roger Aisles who run the media and hold most corporate and government power wouldn’t like that fact getting out.
Have I mentioned that one of my affectionate nicknames for him ore-D-Day was “crabby monkey”? It was said so cutesy, but I actually was referencing his lack of emotional regulation.
At a work party (actually the “after party” following the real party) for a production company with mafia backing (like every production company ever), I was instructed by some big shot to fetch the communal bottle of grappa from a table full of guys in pompadours and pinstripes because all the grown-ass adult men in the room were too terrified to do it.
I don’t typically interact with criminals but was born near Little Italy and knew instinctively how to handle the situation : channel “bossy, loving mama” and chuck them on the chins like endearing scamps– basically the equivalent of calling them “crabby monkeys.”
So I make all the gangsters giggle and wag their tails like naughty puppies and return to my own table with the bottle and a fellow intern from Bensonhurst side-mouths at me, “You do realize every guy at that table has committed multiple murders.”
Yes, kind of but not really but kind of. It’s like you know but try not to think about it in the moment because it might spoil the ruse and then they’ll kill you.
That’s an awesome story!
You said “Consequently, the only way to survive and avoid incurring alphas’ wrath is for betas to remain in complete, cellular-level denial of their own intent until the very moment opportunity presents itself.”
That is essentially what I did. Some of it was subconscious, and some of it later was very strategic.
Obviously, I didn’t wait until he had a moment of vulnerability and then rip his throat out. (If only? lol) To him what I did later was worse.
Pre D-Day he was jsut a run of the mill emotional and verbal abuser. Everyone walking on tiptoes through eggshells to spare themselves his wrath. During that time I did a lot of fawning. I could have won an olympic gold medal in fawning, no one did it better or more frequently. All to try to feel safe, and not have him in a mood that left me and everyone else feeling nervous. That was very subconscious for me, I did it without thinking I had been so conditioned by the abuse that I did all that without even realizing it. I see posts I put on social media from that time and it is sad and embarrassing, If a stranger looked at my timeline, they would maybe think I had a great marriage and was just head over heels for my husband or they would think I had zero personality and literally only thought about my husband 24/7. That wasn’t the case, but his need for kibbles was endless. I didn’t have time to post fun things about myself or that I was interested in. I was too busy trying to boost HIM so he wouldn’t go cold and make my stomach hurt and heart race.
But later? Once D-Day hit and I realized that I had to get OUT? The fawning slowly changed from subconscious to strategic. My focus was first “just get him out of my living space”. Then it was “get the divorce process starteThat all took so so long. I was still so very afraid of him, so each step took me forever. But once all that was done, I went very low contact. And to him? That may as well be me ripping his throat out.
The late Evan Stark would have described your behavior as evidence of the “brilliance” of abuse survivors in gradually wriggling out of the shackles.
He and his wife Ann Flitcraft had such a radically different view of survivors by seeing signs of “genius” in the very victim responses that were traditionally viewed as signs of self defeating cOdEpEndEnCy and masochism. But like some scientist whose name I can’t remember wrote, “Facts tend to cluster around a good theory.” The proof that Stark and Flitcraft were onto something is how their often their theories were proven true, such as the discovery that it’s actually coercive control– not histories of relationship violence– that is the single most accurate predictor of eventual domestic murder.
Because their research and advocacy work and writings go back around fifty years, it’s possible to measure how many times they were right even before the science existed to prove they were right. And they were right too frequently to be accidental. It means that, among other theories, their “radical” views of victims must be correct.
For instance, because prison studies have found that abusers channel abnormal amounts of psychic energy into image management, which includes being exceptionally attuned to the attitudes of people around them, it’s likely they’re able to pick up on (or paranoically imagine) subtle cues of covert disrespect or rebellion. So it makes perfect sense that captor bonding survival strategy only really works to promote survival if victims believe the ruse themselves. And it seems they’ll keep investing in the ruse until they’re finally really safe and out of the abusers’ orbit.
But the danger is that abusers themselves know instinctively how this works because they themselves are only capable of “captor bonding” with others, not genuine love. Consequently, if they feel victims pulling away in any subtle sense, they’ll double down on rebooting the terror program and may eventually feel compelled to go beyond bluffing and make good on implied threats of violence.
Anyway, one thing I’ve realized about abusers is that, due to their monkey-fication, the only expression of “wuv” they know is the ape kind, which is essentially captor bonding.
That generally describes their “bond” with members of their dysfunctional families of origin and it’s what they nihilistically believe is the only form of bonding anyone has towards anyone else. So even if they manage to rope in a healthy partner who’s capable of the higher human form of love and loyalty, abusers simply do not believe it because they don’t believe that form of love exists.
Or they may belief it at first but soon start to revert to cynicism again. Think of that horrible scene in Schindler’s list where Schindler almost convinces the psychopathic camp commander to play Jesus and show “mercy” to prisoners. Goethe tries this for a little while, even genuflecting” in the mirror for a bit and saying “I pardon you.” But then he suddenly gets sick of the experiment, aims his rifle out the bathroom window and offs the poor stable boy.
That nihilistic attitude may also be partly subconscious sour grapes towards higher human impulses because abusers themselves were only ever loved conditionally since infancy if at all. So, in their minds, real love can’t exist since their caregivers never felt or expressed it towards them and it would drive them crazy to see anyone else getting the kind of unconditional love they’d been denied in formative years.
All in all, I think it’s ultimately a trap if a primary partner dares to express this kind of enduring, sober adult love towards an attachment disordered abuser because the abuser would likely eventually react with paranoid cynicism over the attempt to “hoodwink” them and “foster dependency” and also rankle against the expectation of reciprocation.
I think this is partly the reason for “negative bias” where some actually prefer to have pessimistic views of life and love rather than being led by the nose and then let down again.
But I don’t think abusers’ tendency to measure their own worth comparatively and competitively should be underestimated. Though it’s pretty clear that many abusers are drawn to healthy targets who are actually capable of love and deeply hanker to be loved in that way, I think abusers have a jealous understanding that the way to create a genuinely loving human being is by genuinely loving them from inception. Because of this, I can imagine that abusers feel envy towards partners because their “loved and loving” status might mean partners are actually fundamentally worthier of love than the abusers were as children. And this means partners will eventually figure out that abusers are worthless and then take that “real love” and give it to someone worthier.
Naturally that can’t be allowed to happen so I would guess that abusers try to destroy victims’ capacity for love as well as their faith in it through “perspecticide”– using traumatic conditioning to replace victims’ world views, senses of self and faith in humanity with the abusers’ own twisted, nihilistic, cold and hopeless view.
In any event, I think abusers self-fulfill their own cynicism in that they make themselves fundamentally unlovable and can only inspire captor bonding– not higher human love– in anyone. So I think that’s when victims, for the sake of survival, can adopt the behavior of “beta apes” and finding themselves radically shifting from fawning adoration one minute to cold detachment and ferocious self defense the next.
I wish more survivors understood this is purely reactive because, ironically along with victims fearing that they were being masochistic for not escaping sooner, you often see victims conversely expressing shame or worry to discover that their love for abusers wasn’t “real” (just as these abusers were always claiming) and fear that this reflects on their own characters.
But it’s generally not the case for adults who get entrapped by abusers. If someone is basically dropped into the jungle without a map, they’ll have to adhere to the law of the jungle to survive. It doesn’t mean they won’t return to gentler, more civilized habits when they return to civilization. That is, they’ll return to civilized habits if the world they return to seems actually civilized. But, unfortunately, one of the ways that victim-blaming in helping professions and by bystanders creates the “second injury” of domestic abuse is by proving that the abuser’s nihilistic view of humanity was probably true. It isn’t but if that’s the first reaction victims face when they reach out for support, it will seem true and, according to Stark and Flitcraft, delay and impede healing.
p.s., Peggy the chimp who played “Bonzo” in Bedtime for Bonzo nearly strangled Ronald Reagan to death, one of the incidents that apparently brought an end to using regular chimps in films.
It’s a bit ironic that Peggy came so close to preventing some of Reagan’s destructive exploits but I don’t think her goal was to, say, save the third world from Reagan’s brutal neoliberal politices or save El Salvador from Reagan-backed Contra death squads, etc.
Unlike bonobos, chimp females aren’t exactly “activist” and don’t form protective coalitions against patriarchal violence to spare each other or even themselves. They mostly throw other females under the bus and sometimes try to kill each other’s infants.
Gamer chump, I am so sorry this happened to you! I want to say that it’s still very early days, and so it makes total sense that your brain is sending you all kinds of confused mixed messages.
Tracy had a good line about the “emotional hallucination that you could win him back.” I experienced this as well. I remember when my FW was dumping me and I was in total shock, I had this crystal clear thought of “oh, this is why people have babies to try and save the marriage.” I was so desperate for us to stay together I would have done anything, including get pregnant.
The kicker is that it was a lesbian relationship! So it really was an emotional hallucination from my flailing brain.
Unlucky Seven THIS!!!!!
I know so many people that think as a desperate measure that a kid is the solution.
I wish I could hug this people.
Before I knew my ex was involved in a catfish scam, he suddenly demanded sex one day because he had an erection. He had ED and premature ejaculation, and simply came up to me without any romance, physical contact, or signs of intimacy or desire. When I found his opened bottle of a Viagara substitute, I realized he was attempting to try them out on me to see if he’d be able to have sex with his AP. I’m so glad I said no.
Same. This was a few months before d-day, when I was in the dark and still having sex with him.
I can see that he was practicing on me. I mean the big prick needed to know how his little prick would react and whether half a pill would do the trick. Ugh. Makes me so angry in retrospect.
OMG, Good Friend, mine did the same. It was at the end of a therapy session that he announced he wanted a divorce…the first part of the session had included him snarling and glaring at me that we didn’t have sex and needed to. This after 4 years of sexless marriage, not by my choice. I figured he wanted one more use of me to confirm he could still perform. It was very gross and disturbing. And I’m glad I turned his ass down.
Chumps and abuse survivors here and elsewhere always commend or even express a bit of admiring envy for those survivors who seemed to do an emotional 180 upon the first glimpse of abusive tendencies or betrayal by their partners and simply rejected the abusers with revulsion instead of having to fight initial impulses to “fix” the abusers or get them back (or have sex again). I think it seems admirable because the ideal isn’t really that common. Otherwise, as every high school girl usually figures out, playing hard to get tends to sharpen sexual appetite in our species.
Of course it’s far more boggling when a victim finds themselves yearning for contact with someone who harmed them. But is that because most victims of abuse had preexisting pathology? Statistics say this isn’t at all true, that victims don’t differ from the majority in any sense and that only abusers have predictable preexisting psychological issues.
So, from that vantage point and also prevailing evolutionary theory, I tend to think the inexplicable flare of desire for partners who just betrayed and/or abandoned is a combination of hardwired biological “FOMO” (fear of missing out) going back to the dawn of man coupled with captor bonding (Stockholm syndrome).
Of course the impulse has to be resisted but I think a line should be drawn at victims being shamed for what may be normal human traits and instincts, even if these instincts are frustratingly self-defeating at times. In the case that someone did have an issue with compulsive and destructively indiscriminate sexuality prior to an abusive relationship then there might be some problem to explore. But if an individual wasn’t sexually compulsive prior to a breakup (whether an honorable breakup or a traumatic one), I find it pretty victim-blaming to apply the codependency theory to what might just be a normal reaction, albeit one arising from “outdated” primordial wiring.
I think that’s because the horny FOMO bit makes a certain sense from an evolutionary “propagation” standpoint. Basically, the reason any of our bloodlines survived the ages is because our ancestors had that tyrannical biological drive to get back on that horse (the one they just lost) or, barring that, some other horse (doesn’t matter which) pronto so no breeding opportunities are missed.
For the sake of clarity, if you were anthropomorphise “Mother Nature” (i.e., the biological tyrant of breeding instincts), even if a woman is on her last good egg or a man has outlived his sperm motility, that tyrant still doesn’t want them to miss that last slim chance. And if the “horse” someone is instinctively driven to “get back on” is dangerous and abusive? Wouldn’t matter because sexual violence was a given among our ape and paleolithic ancestors (archeologists report skeletal evidence that paleolithic women show the same pattern of repeat and healed skull injuries as modern battered women, just moreso).
In other words, the tyranny of nature is that these instincts make sense from a species propagation vantage point though not necessarily from an individual survival standpoint. Anyone who’s watched a Great Dane trying to hump a dachshund and the dachshund actually putting up with it knows that not everything that comes naturally is advisable. What’s more, those instincts may have made sense back in our live-fast/die-young/leave-a-lot-of-spawn days when infant mortality and death before adolescence could exceed 50%, but the same instincts are outdated today.
The same goes for Stockholm syndrome/captor bonding. For one, among our ape ancestors, that was the standard bond between genders (as seen among modern chimps). Secondly, though the tendency to bond with abuser/captor actually does increase chances of survival in captivity because most captors/abusers are not entirely immune from being “touched” by a victim’s display of loyalty and devotion and are more likely to show a bit of mercy, the tendency to play possum to survive abuse outlives its usefulness once victims have an opportunity to escape.
That’s because neither our ape or paleolithic ancestors had laws against DV (as poorly enforced as they are), courts (as biased as they are), domestic violence shelters (as underfunded as they are), etc., not to mention the technical means to leave one’s local troop and move far away to escape (difficult as it is).
Anyway, back when I worked for an advocacy network, the program directors didn’t see the point of shaming victims to overcome outdated monkey impulses by framing those impulses as somehow “pathologically flawed,” especially when abusers are already so adept at shaming and crazy-baiting victims into paralysis and society is already so adept at shaming women for being sexual at all. Why not encourage victims to overcome natural but outdated impulses by just offering likely theories why they’re outdated and why they existed in the first place?
The service I worked for just encouraged survivors to utilize the human advantage of free will to overcome incommodious impulses without the pathologizing. And because we avoided the typical pathologizing that reigned in victimology at the time, survivors began opening up about ways in which sexuality had been employed to survive extremely dangerous situations. For instance, many survivors described how the choice to have sex or not have sex was never up to them but how, if they weren’t “into it,” it would hurt even more or even risk injury (uterine prolapse), they found ways to get aroused by pretending they weren’t being maritally raped.
We never would have heard accounts like this if the shame hadn’t been removed from the subject. I also think the general view that humans are saddled with some rather outdated apey impulses that we have to overcome for individual survival made the subject a bit humorous and that made survivors more likely to open up and talk about the struggle to individually “evolve” beyond our animal selves at times.
It seemed to be a bit harder for evangelical Christians to grasp the issue from that standpoint, especially women who were conditioned to deny even having sexual impulses. But, if Darwin and the bible agree on only one thing, “original sin” and “primal nature” are exactly the same. Furthermore, scripture (like evolutionary theory and even Freud) does not exempt anyone in this regard. Even the pope of Rome is supposed to be constantly vigilant about backsliding into selfishness, greed, cupidity, cowardice, false idol worship, etc., etc. Whether religious leaders are self-policing or not is another matter as the church sex abuse scandal and many financial scandals have shown. But according to theology, Darwin and Freud alike, we’re all equal and, give or take some individual differences, no one is transcendent.
As a side note on religion and victimology, I think most of the general confusion in victimology is when some pretend to be generally exempt in order to gain status and power over others. For instance, psychiatric authority has traditionally attempted to gain and maintain power over women by pretending normal and explicable responses to abuse– whether the tendency to captor bond or fight back or simply having difficulty escaping– are, in fact, pathological which is how “borderline personality disorder” ended up being weaponized against all battered women to keep them silent and keep them from rattling the societal cage. In order to do that, these authorities had to pretend to be exempt from normal human responses themselves. But, in technical terms, that would make psychiatry not merely a religion but a cultish one, not a science, since leaders are pretending to be inherently exalted and above lowly human flaws which not even formal church authorities are supposed to do. The pretense of “exalted leaders” is the mark of a cult whether existential or religious.
I’ve read all your text and I can say to you that I had previous abandonment and abuse trauma myself.
My therapist told me as a TEPTC patient that, hypersexualization is something that can develop in certain cases.
I personally think that maybe in my case can be related but, I’m not a professional, but I will ask my therapist and show her this analysis.
Thanks.
Also be aware that some believe we evolved directly from bonobos, the kinder gentler feminist pygmy chimp, and therefore they don’t believe that violence and sexual control come “naturally” to our species.
Basic carbon dating and one glance at the human history of almost constant war make it clear we’re more closely related to regular rapey chimps. But some people are afraid that admitting the latter is the same as making some kind of evolutionary excuse for rape and war. I don’t really understand the argument since chimps also regularly commit cannibalism and infanticide and most cultures have no problem not making excuses for these things. Something being natural (like peeing out of trees and flinging feces) or rooted in evolution (like sexual aggression) doesn’t mean its advisable or healthy in modern democracies. Humans have free will and can choose to act on certain impulses or not.
In my experience, all but the most feminist trauma therapists tend to draw from the old “psychological deficiency” theory of intimate partner abuse which assumes both parties had preexisting issues that draw them to abusive relationships.
Because this theory didn’t stand the test of time or statistical analysis (though, for some reason, some clinicians and most of the public aren’t aware of this), it can’t be assumed victims’ backgrounds play much if any role regarding why they’re abused or even how they respond. Basically if something is not true of the whole demographic, it can’t be presumed to be generally “causal.” It might be for some individuals but it can’t be assumed.
I think common sense says that if all someone knew from birth was abuse, they might not notice red flags in adult relationships. But, in a statistical sense, that can be balanced out by the interesting fact that people who previously endured abuse can be somewhat more resistant to captor bonding/Stockholm syndrome and sometimes faster to escape abusive situations. This may even be true of you since it’s like your feet decided to escape the relationship before the rest of your body and brain were even ready. You were actually comparatively quick to bail.
But if I learned anything from the time I worked with an advocacy network, it’s that absolutely nothing is as it seems when it comes to intimate partner abuse (except the fact that all the blame should be placed on perps, not divided between victim and perpetrator). I think this is both because abusers excel at disguising their motives and tactics and because victims’ lives often depend on feigning loyalty to their abusers down to a cellular level… at least until the moment when they’re safe enough to make a run for it. Then the same survivor who swore undying love for an abuser a moment before might find themselves feeling absolutely nothing for them quite suddenly.
All the predatory deception and then the necessary deception (for the sake of survival) by victims makes it a really hard subject to study.
Background in evolutionary biology here. In animals (across many species) with a pair bond, it is common for sex to increase when there is a threat of losing a mate to another partner. Of course, just because it is a known biological phenomenon doesn’t make it ethical or a good idea for humans. When the young male lion finally kills the old leader of the pride, his next task is to kill the offspring of the females in the pride, so he can impregnate them and use her resources to further his genes. In the same vein, a stepfather is many times more likely to kill a stepchild than biological offspring. Much of civilization consists of NOT doing what comes naturally.
Gamer girl, please try to resist the millions of years of human evolution that make him seem so sexy. He’s been awful to you, calling you old, tired and I forget the third thing, and the action of dumping you within months of marriage. Giving in only gives a jerk bragging rights that he can be horrible to you and you still can’t say no to his magic appendage…trust me, that is what he’ll tell his friends and use to get the OW to increase the sex. Good luck to you!
Thanks for weighing in with your expertise in this. You might be interested in Wrangham’s discussion of ape coercive control as a type of protracted rape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj5QAIjDulQ
Wrangham also scoffs at the “evolutionary excuse” for patriarchal violence. But one thing he ponders over is the fact that ape and human sexual aggression obviously doesn’t always directly serve some propagation goal when the female victims are killed in the process. The bizarre common denominator between us and our closest ape cousins seems to be violence and sexual dominance for its own sake even at the cost of survival.
Anyway, great points about resisting the call of nature because, when we give into FW’s coercive monkey bs, they tend to double down on acting like knuckle dragging apes. So, yeah, better not to feed their inner primates by going along with the traditional ape dynamics
I had monkeys on the brain today because my daughter and I were listening to a segment on NPR in the car about “menopausal chimps.” One researcher being interviewed described the idyllic life of an aging female “chimp” named Garbo who basically passed her days getting scalp massages from her two adult sons and being fed snacks. The researchers and host kept repeating “chimp, chimp, chimp,” but my daughter (who read Wrangham) said, “Bet you Garbo’s a bonobo, not a chimpanzee.”
We got home and looked it up and, sure enough, the famous Garbo was a bonobo which is why her sons were so civilized and her retirement so glamorous. Meanwhile, as part of a right of passage, most adolescent chimp males will beat up their own mothers as a show of dominance.
Commercial nature shows always do this– muddle chimps with bononos then make inane palliative comparisons to humans in order to completely avoid any controversial feminist themes like the fact that humans– very much unlike bonobos and very much like regular chimps– tend to treat all females terribly at every stage of life.
“skeletal evidence that paleolithic women show the same pattern of repeat and healed skull injuries”
Fast fact: The only human remains to be found in the La Brea Tar Pits were of a young woman who had a skull fracture.
Thanks, I did not know that! Yikes.
Battered women incur all sorts of injuries but apparently hitting the face and head are “standard.” The face is said to have a sexual significance since batterers reportedly view the face as a sexual body part by which a victim may attract another mate. But it’s also the brain that foments rebellion and the voice that talks back, calls for help or “tells” so there seem to be all sort of reasons why over 90% of abuse survivors show trauma to head, face and neck.
My first cheater….I cried at one of his- visiting our new baby..when I allowed him in…I cried and said I missed him in bed!! He looked at me and said, well if you NEED ME we can do it in the bedroom so you’ll feel better!! Immediately I asked him if he would mind another baby and more child support??? I was shocked that here he had a NEW OW and he would have sex with me????? Ok character!!!! Zilch. His disgusting behavior was enough to cure me from then on. Just looking at him i pictured him having sex with OW..Enough of a visual to stop and more requests.
#2 cheater was always on me for sex but he could not perform except with lots of help. Plus pills plus…There was one final time when I knew nothing about his secrets but knew I had had enough. I pulled out all the stops,did everything he wanted and knew it was the last time. Especially when he stoop up and said…WHY DIDN’T YOU DO THAT ALL THE TIME?? Well sorry, I was done right there with D day days away…I’m thrilled it’s over. No contact , none…is the only cure.
I did not go back and have sex with my ex husband, he was not that interested anyway and had cut me off a year prior to the separation and divorce. What I did do though was have a series of bad relationships with men who only wanted me for sex. None of them were interested in an actual relationship. I thought I could make that happen somehow by having a physical relationship with unavailable men. I was so miserable I became suicidal, I let myself be used by thosemen and it took a while to see the light and stop it. Lots of therapy, anti depressants and working on myself.
I am on therapy because of other reasons, and I will take care of myself.
I hope you are feeling better now, and I send you a huuuuuuuuge hug <3
Thank you I am doing much better. It took a couple of years. And I’m not happy with myself for what I did. I now feel so much more like myself and living my own morals.
Good luck to you. And keep coming here. This group has helped me so much.
((Hugs))
Watch any alcohol intake until you’re in control of your emotions. Drunk texting for a booty call could entirely upend your healing. Having a friend who will stop you if you are drinking is gold. I can’t stress enough how EMDR therapy helps calm down any emotional/trauma responses. If you can’t afford the therapy, YouTube some videos on how to self perform this. For example, I move my eyes rapidly to each side whenever I think of my ex and the emotional thoughts connected to him subside & I can carry on with my day without feeling any attachment to him. It hella works!!
I can’t drink alcohol because of my meds and I’m on CB (cognitive behavioral) therapy so I’m living one day at the time and focusing in grow myself.
OFC, I had really severe self harm impulses the first days, but I surrounded myself with my family and personal friends (not Switzerland ones).
I write everytime I think of him and re-read everything in order to disgust myself, only thinking about him…
But night are really difficult.
Hugs Orlando <3
Can you go no contact with this guy, or do you have to stay in contact with the divorce ongoing? Are you handling the divorce yourself or do you have a lawyer as the go-between?
I have some books that I pull out & re-read chapters from when I have hard nights or during holidays: CL’s Leave a Cheater, Jeb Kinnison’s Avoidant-How to Love or Leave a Dismissive Partner, Lundy Bancroft’s Why does he do that? Are some of my top faves. Runaway Husbands, surprisingly, wasn’t as helpful to me but others really like it. I guess some books will resonate more than others. Though most help set me straight that my ex is a dismissive asshole, that I had an unhappy marriage with him despite me spackling the shit out of it, and despite my heart sometimes playing tricks on me and softening towards him. Writing down all the bad shit too & rereading it is also super important, glad you’re doing it! I’m rereading Jeb’s book right now as it reassures me FW’s like my ex don’t change for new partners either because the holiday season is getting to me & FW married Schmoopie recently. And, of course, this blog is also a daily support to ward off those evil FW’s & their Schmoops.
Any evening sober dance events in your area? Regularly getting your groove on in a safe, non-boozy, non-sleazy environment in that sensitive sundown time frame is a great way to channel your physical yayas and emotions. If you can’t find sober raves, maybe search for dance classes. Belly dance, Afro-Caribbean, tap, tango, whatever.
If you’ve got strong natural physical mojo, it’s like having a pet Jack Russel or Thoroughbred horse. It needs to be exercised/exorcised.
Great point about exercising physically to get that energy out!
Lol, yes. I’m kind of like a shark where I have to keep moving or I perish. But endorphins alone don’t quite cut it for me. I was in AAU sports from the age of 6 and find straight up “exertion” boring as ^$%#. Having a perfect ass isn’t enough motivation and I never care who wins anything other than elections. I need a kind of “orgy” of physiological experiences like getting a social fix, bettering the world and spiritual high on top of the endorphin rush while (snore) achieving cardio health.
I didn’t have sex with FW after D-day because he was in lust & limerance with Schmoopie and he basically thought I was a POS. Yet anybody who knows all of us will say I have her beat in looks and everything else but gigantic boobs. So you know where his brain is located. I did have sex with him before D-day even though he was treating me like shit because I was desperate to save my marriage. Good lesson to learn: if desperation kicks in, that person is no (longer) good for you.
I didn’t experience this with FW, even a thought of touching him felt like an insult. But I had this reaction to someone whom I dated after and who ghosted me. I believe this is driven by “attachment hunger” and anxiety and gets activated where a loss of connection happens or serious uncertainty creeps in. It’s a way to feel closer and compensate for rupture. It can be alarming but try to observe it as a scientist: “isn’t this interesting?” instead of letting it lead.
Yup been there. Trauma bonding. And we secret bonding hormones when we are with someone physically. I had friends who would have sex with someone once and feel in love with the person. It takes me awhile, but once I let you in, Im all in. Turning off the physicalness of it is very difficult. I agree with CL dont give in and go no contact to let your body withdraw from him. Maybe get a fun, rebound, no strings relationship to help.
You don’t love him. You love the guy he was pretending to be.
Repeat that over and over until it sinks in. We all had to learn it the hard way.
that’s right. i don’t love him. i love the guy i thought he was, that i hoped he could be, that he was happy to let me think he was. he even insisted ‘i’m not going anywhere’, when i expressed insecurity and wanted therapy since we weren’t having sex and he ‘worked’ all the time. he said ‘you’re the one with the problem, you can get therapy’. i really didn’t like that guy, but i was so far in, up to my eyeballs in kids/family responsibilities, i sucked it up and accepted the crumbs.
i’m going to put it on sticky notes around the house:
I DON’T LOVE HIM. I LOVE THE GUY HE WAS PRETENDING TO BE.
that guy is long gone and will never be seen again. the monster from the black lagoon is here to stay.
I heard a succinct saying:
The person you are divorcing is not the person you married.
I try to keep that in mind.
Ugh, so sorry gamerchump. that is just mean. I hate that you were treated that way.
run, not walk, to the nearest exit. good job on starting the divorce right away. NO SEX! think STDs–it’s a very real possibility.
i’m divorced after 32 years shitty, boring marriage to a grumpy alcoholic/workaholic who i now know is also a porn/sex addict. he was a good financial provider but otherwise very neglectful, gaslighter, deceptive. and so shallow and fake and a high maintenance extended family that has cancelled me (yay).
after 9 years, while i sat breastfeeding our son, a rude man who attended the bachelor party told me it was “cool how i still married even though the groom (my now husband) f*ed a lap dancer” who was hired to entertain them. husband laughed it off as a lie and i believed him…i was so naive… 30 years later i found out he frequents IMPs (illicit massage parlors) and spent a lot of time on web sites such as craiglist-backdoor and bedpage24, ashleymadison, wellhello. all used for prostitution. X sold our children’s trampoline and swingset, and several cars, for cash over the years on craigslist. can’t confirm it, but pretty sure it was to pay for sex. he announced his divorce on thanksgiving 2023. moved out that weekend. was already “dating’ future “New wife” (he had a list of our pros and cons!!) he met on ‘plentyoffish’ and she is also a client. entitlement , sociopath , etc. “new wife” is just a stupid fool worse than me bc she knows he’s a cheater! i still get really depressed or angry, especially when he spends time with our daughter and spends my money on his gf. he also said really mean things like ‘the kids don’t need you any more’ and ‘that was then this is now’ (when I showed him his love letters that i kept), and he tells everyone in his family and our kids that i am ‘crazy’. ya, i was devastated which can look like crazy. any ‘healthy’ person would be sad to destroy a family. He tells our kids that he is “happy” now. Bravo FW. Show me how heartless you are. Cheaters suck. I had 23 great years with my kids though and now learning how to live alone without the emotional abuse.
Don’t let him drive that narrative unchecked. Your ex sounds a lot like mine. However during the marriage police days of wreckonciliation I made no secret if why we were having police visits, etc and that’s staved off his smear campaign to a degree
Yup to both. My FW XW is (probably) still beautiful (on the outside), and I still loved her, or at least the mirage I thought was her and our marriage/relationship immediately after D-day. It took me a couple of years to shed those feelings for her.
As for sex after D-day? I asked her if I could have it with her one last time. She agreed. I performed foreplay on her (don’t feel like it was with her at that point, after her shitty actions), but when it came time for penetrative sex, I couldn’t do it.
In the past, I thought it was my diabetes causing a problem. Now I’m not so sure, as I’m perfectly fine now. I think it just as likely that my heart was telling my brain, “no fucking way can we do this.” And my brain refused to let me perform.
And if THAT’S the case, I’m semi-proud of myself for not going all the way with her. It’s possibly why I identify so strongly with the scene from Forgetting Sarah Marshall. See
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPOzbiDYv4
Happy holidays, my fellow chumps.😁
Mind and body are much more connected than one may believe. Be proud of your body for speaking the truth
Thank you, Archer. I guess I am proud of my body, rejecting her. When I saw Forgetting Sarah Marshall and that scene, it REALLY resonated with me, and made me think.
So, I believe you.😊
Long time reader, first time poster.
This is such an important-and useful- conversation, and so much of what has been said resonates with my experience….18 months (!) of trauma bonding and crazy “pick me” dancing, all alongside what I thought was such “important” couples therapy and FW saying that he “chose this” (meaning me), AND frequent and intense sex like he and I had not had ever had in 25 years together… starting with the night I find a letter he’d written to the “love of his life” and found out about his 7.5 year double life.
I too (as others have written) had a partner who got off on my pain and anguish, got off on comparing what I did with him to his AP, and got off on the lingerie I bought and everything else I did to make him want to stay.
The shame and disgust I feel over all of this, but especially the sex, has been one of the hardest things for me to recover from. I also know now that it was (a certain kind of) sexual abuse because THERE WAS NO CONSENT. I DID NOT CONSENT. I never would have consented to ANY of it had I known that he never did end his double life. He never stopped lying. I did not find that out until days before I left him. For me, hope was the last thing to die; it took me all of that time to realize that he was not the person I thought he was; in fact, that person had never existed.
It’s taken me 5+ years and LOTS of therapy (including EMDR which has not actually worked that well for me because the trauma is so dispersed) to not actively recoil at even the thought of any intimacy. But I am glad to be able to share that I did have a healthy relationship recently with a man, and that (somewhat to my surprise) I still enjoy sex. I had some flashbacks at first, which was very scary, but I got through it (he was very patient and kind, which of course, made a big difference), and I was able to be present.
I too wish I’d found CL sooner and could have read this post and so many others. But if anyone is reading any of this in the earlier stages, please know that you cannot look to the person who is abusing you to help you get through abuse. Please don’t isolate yourself.
My thanks to Tracy and to all of you who write who have helped me so much over these years.
Yeah we did have sex after D-Day. But it was because I wanted him to know dipstick still worked with me too, not just the MOW. So went through the motions and flew her the bird which gave me satisfaction 🙂
Sex always something I was more into, and we hadn’t done it since our second was conceived (he was 11yo at D-Day) hence wanting him to know we could still do it.
But I don’t really miss it with him. It was everything else about him I loved – security, safety, trust, calm, patient, reliable..
(If the game was say, the 14th installment of a long running fantasy series that despite its title will never actually end, you and I have frightening parity in our stories…) The “best friend” in these things NEVER has the best of intentions-and they have zero stakes (ask me how I know this). Hell, wouldn’t it be hilarious if…never mind…
You are used to being attracted to him, and sexually at that (I mean, you married and loved this person) This is still very new and fresh for you-it is completely OK to still have SOME longing for the idiot. That is how you are wired for the time being.
I will echo what everybody else is saying-DO NOT.
Do not sleep with him. Do not let him touch you. Do not touch him. He betrayed you. You would be at best rewarding bad behavior and at worst perpetuating a cycle of abuse and letting him know that everything he has done was actually OK and acceptable.
You may be meeting your need-but you are remaining in his trap. There is no way to separate those things. None. You are better than that. Oxytocin and dopamine are one hell of a drug.
This person put you at risk. If nothing else he could not be bothered to let you know that there was a confession. This person is bad for you and you did the right thing in kicking him to the curb.
I was cut off for what I was told were medical reasons around when, as the math would line up, the most serious of what my fuckwit got up to had begun. I had the same longing and pining after D-Day as that was what was normal for me. It took accepting that the person that I was in love with was probably never real to begin with and getting deeper into the healing process for those thoughts and feelings to shut off. There is still the occasional pale echo of all of that…but so much the better that she’s gone.
Hi JeffWashington, no, it was a survival horror game that says people will be dead when the sun comes out, I mean by daylight.
But I think we have sooooooo much in common. I’m not in US so I don’t think we are speaking of the same people, but…! We DEFINITELY should arrange a double date between our cheaters and their BFFs who are not so much BFFs.
Hugs and I’m really sorry that you know the pain ♥