Narcissists Who’ve Got Game

bukowski

Are some people willing to pay the price of admission to stay with narcissists who’ve got game? Fame, money, beauty. Is it worth it?

***

The other night Mr. CL and I were watching a documentary about the poet Charles Bukowski, someone whose writing we both admire. We both came away from the film going “My God that guy was an asshole.” To the point which my husband thinks it might have ruined the poetry for him.

I don’t know. I’m a bit more compartmentalized about these things (yeah, me, Chump Lady). I can admire the poetry without admiring the man.

My takeaway was:

Being a great artist does not give you license to treat the people around you like shit.

In the film you see everyone giving the guy a pass for being an abusive, alcoholic asswipe. In one particularly revolting scene he’s telling his wife to leave him. “I’m done with you! You disgust me! Why don’t you get some high-priced Jew lawyer and divorce me!” (A recreational anti-Semite too, delightful.)

But she doesn’t. She sticks with him to the end and says nice things about him in his documentary.

Why? Because she was willing to pay the price of admission to be The Wife of Charles Bukowski.

It made me wonder how many people pay the price of admission to be married to cheating narcissists who’ve got game? Well, I can’t divorce him, he’s a surgeon. She’s hot. He’s the mayor. She’s fabulously successful.

We’ll never do as well again! Bring on the buffet of shit sandwiches for the privilege of being in the Great One’s orbit!

This is a more understandable (if superficial) chumpdom.

Some cheaters really DO have game.

There is substance to their sparkle. It would give me pause to divorce Bill Clinton, once leader of the free world. (Why it gave me pause to divorce the once third-rate federal employee I was married to, I have no idea.)

There are people standing in line to be as “lucky” as you! Why wouldn’t you want to be Mrs. Charles Bukowski?

(I dunno. Maybe because his face looked as if it had been spattered with buckshot and he probably smelled like rancid meat?)

Most of our cheaters are underachievers, never living up to their full potential. And yet, others do. They really have gifts.

Of course, I still think you should dump anyone that requires you to be their abused sock puppet sidekick to their Great Persona. (I’m talking to YOU, Mrs. Charles Bukowski.)

Admire the poetry, divorce the man.

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HM
HM
9 years ago

for me it was just to be a part of the ‘coupled’ club. Pathetic, I know.
I was ashamed to be single and I hoped beyond hope we would get married. Luckily we did not and that turned out to be the best thing ever. I am now no longer ashamed to be single. When faced with the choice of being single and not fucked around vs. being coupled with someone who abuses you…well, it’s not so scary anymore.

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  HM

There are people in line waiting in line to be as lucky as you.

I once saw band called Twisted Sister and Dee Snider spit into the audience numerous times throughout the show. I moved away to the back of the room immediately disgusted. My Ex didn’t understand what my problem was. The point is that all the women stayed there as the spit flew. This was in a small club with a minimal cover. Yes ther will always be another woman/man just waiting in line to be disrespected. Staying with someone who has blatant disregard to preserve status of any sort is a very hard road. Thankfully, we have a better choice than putting up with such disrespect. The ow/om can’t see the phlem but it is there nevertheless. Gaining a life is the best stAtus ever

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Donna

So you said, “[I’m] not gonna take it! And no [I’m] not gonna take it! [I’m] not gonna take it! [I’m] not gonna take it, anymore! (Just you try and make [me]!

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

“You’re so Condescending, You’re gall is NEVER ending, I don’t want nothing – NOTHING from YOU!” Haha. I am a woman of the 80’s! I want my 80’s BACK!

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

Ha ha….yes Jen!!! Awesome lol

NCstevie729
NCstevie729
9 years ago
Reply to  Donna

@ Donna How disgusting…. Dee Snider spitting on people… who does that shit? wtf?

“The ow/om can’t see the phlegm but it is there nevertheless.” (LOVE that) In my case…. she has been warned lol. Her response to cheater asshole about the “dirt” I shared with HER husband…. “As I told you before… she’s not going to run me off!” Remember that bitch…. we will see who has the last laugh. Muahahahahahahah

Thankful
Thankful
9 years ago
Reply to  NCstevie729

Oh my the desperate chump, the one that is willing to take all the glitter your ex is willing to bestow on them despite knowing the truth. My eX’s current girlfriend is fully aware that only a year before he began love bombing her he confessed to 8 yrs of adultery with the same sex partners while married to me. And what is worse is that people are encouraging the relationship as if being with her will keep him on the straight and narrow. No pun intended.

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

@Thankful, I actually believe that SHE is an equally desperate for attention love-bombing narc as well, she is a (married w/3 boys) physique competitor and quite impressed with herself. I swore they are both having a mid-life crisis..both definitely WS’s….reeking of entitlement. I have possession of SEVERAL of their texts and their schmoopie talk is rather disturbing, I’ve mentioned in previous posts that it was very childish, middle school level mentality. Both cheaters…hmmmm wonder how trust is going to play out there…..I’m waiting for the fall out. Looking forward to it actually.

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Jen, the greatest accomplishment is leaving them. They self destruct on their own. You can hold your head up high and the cheaters will continue to lie to themselves. They really do have limited potential especially when they no longer live in the stable environment we provided when they were cheating. Trust that none of it was your fault. I hate the expression, you need to move on. We don’t have the on off switch cheaters are hardwired to enable them to discard at a moments notice. I just realized that when they are fucking their AP’s they are really fucking themselves. The minute they lose the compassion, unconditional love, and stability their wife provided, they want it back!!! They flip the switch and have the expectation we will still be there to further their future pursuits. I truly feel that it interrupts their game. Hmmm, now what am I going to tell the AP’s? I laugh at the thought that now that he is with his disordered ugly AP and divorced it will be more difficult to find new supply. His narrative can no longer be, my wife…..boo hoo, poor me. The switch I had to use was no contact and that was so very hard but necessary to detox. He is trying so hard to get back into my life SO he can tell his future AP’s we still have a good relationship. He is STILL cheating living with his AP. FUCK him, this will never happen in my lifetime. Jen, having a cheater out of your life is the accomplishment of a lifetime.

Nicole Aponte
Nicole Aponte
9 years ago
Reply to  Donna

OMG…. yes, YES, yes!!! Could not agree more with this 100%…. it’s all peaches & cream in their distorted, fantasy land until they lose the security, comfort & stability that their wife/ family provide them with…. makes me sick, beyond pathetic.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

NCStevie, I found all of the sexting between the ex and Schmoopie and it is unbelievably childish and middle school! We are talking about a woman in her 50’s and a man who is about to turn 60! It’s shocking at first, but once the divorce is final and you have settled in a bit read it again! You will laugh your ass off!!!

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

My ex is 46, schmoopie is 40, and I already told him…. “the shit you two say to each other is almost comical, I’d probably laugh if it weren’t so f*cking pathetic.”

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

This is something I needed to see here. I have often said that my husbands Schmoopie is a hardup HO with self esteem issues because she put up with his shit for two years. There were times when he would bring her here from another state and bang her all week then tell her he really didn’t love her and drop her off just short of the state line for her sister to pick her up! He would come back to me and stay anywhere from six to nine days and then leave me to show up on her doorstep and she would take him back! But by the same token, I would take him back also, but I was after all his legal wife! Truth of the matter is, he was playing us both and the ego trip was first class for him! I am ashamed to have played his game for so long, but if I were single/divorced like she was then I would have sent him packing. I just figure she can’t find anything/anyone to touch her with a barge pole so she hung in there and took his shit! Well, I filed and got rid of him and I feel like I won the lottery cause I got the shit that counts! My kids, grand kids and family that respects me. Then I went to mediation and got the rest of his assets! Yes indeed, she can have Mr. Sparkles! I have what I need thank you!

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

At the end of the game they end up being truly fucked!! And we never have to play again. Instead of classy they end up with trashy. It’s one thing to fuck the whore getting kibbles from us and another thing when the excitement of sneaking around ends and with daylight. What looks good in the dark is frightening in the morning. Oops! That is one skanky whore.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Donna

Sounds like you got to him. I wish I could’ve accomplished that.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  Donna

So true Donna, but now he is stuck with his “bad choice”. When I finally kicked him out for the last time I told him he had better hope that “fat ass” really loves him because his option with me was unavailable in the future. I wish you could have seen his face. He didn’t seem quite so “happy” and I thought I was going to have to get a crowbar to move his ass out of the house. He just seemed to move a lot slower for some reason. Oh well, no worries for me now!

willowchumpx30
willowchumpx30
9 years ago
Reply to  Donna

Thank you for this Donna. My cheater has got great game and EVERYONE thinks he is awesome. Handsome, charismatic, Charitable, generous, kind, wealthy, etc. Only I know the other side. I KNOW there are a few – and one special person – waiting in the wings. * I will say that when I confided in my best friend she confessed she always felt like he was wearing a false face, a mask. She is the only one not singing his praises.

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  willowchumpx30

Sanity is more valuable than money. A narc with followers. One good friend is all you need. The others are shallow like him no doubt. I have met most of my ex’s ow and not one of them was special. We have morals and that makes us special.

NCstevie729
NCstevie729
9 years ago
Reply to  HM

Same here HM, I’ve never been married…. when he proposed… I thought me meant it. If I hadn’t gotten pregnant right away he probably would have gone through with it… but he didn’t have to as he already had me tied to him. I wasn’t ashamed to be single but I wanted him to “want” to be married to me. Now… knowing the full spectrum of his financial predicament… I am SO thankful that we never followed through. SO glad to NOT have to share in that pile of leftover shit, he was financially ruined before I met him and somehow… somehow he managed to f*ck it up even worse. Wow.

Scott
Scott
9 years ago

I now view people through this lens. You cheat, i dont care who you are, what prize youve won, what great thing you invented, i disregard those “great” things. Why? Cheaters are abusers. Period. Just like i wouldnt appreciate the beauty of a murderers painting or a rapists music. Cruelty is cruelty. Give me the complete library of men and women who have been faithful, thank you very much.

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  Scott

I agree wholeheartedly with Scott, and here’s why: we covenant to be faithful to one person when we get married. Literally ONE PERSON. I recall my Dad’s best friend, a wonderful man, saying that if you can’t honor and be faithful to the one person you vow to love and be faithful to in front of God, your friends & your entire family, then it says everything about the kind of person you are. It doesn’t mean you aren’t talented or good looking or successfully…it just means you are untrustworthy and deceitful. Because when you really think about it, we don’t have ceremonies to declare our desire to be forever faithful to our children, bosses, jobs, companies, our friends, our mothers, even our best friend, or our car insurance company. We do, however, swear before God to be faithful to our spouse, however–in front of God. In front of our grandmother, our neighbors, cousins and best friends.

The covenant of marriage means something to people who value their word and their honor. So if I meet a talented banker/doctor/lawyer/artist/athlete/singer and they are an unfaithful husband or wife, I don’t need to know much more about them as a person–the act of betraying the one person they swore to love & protect forever tells me exactly who they ARE…beyond the talent, beyond the money, beyond the artifice and the things that really don’t matter.

I think once you’ve been betrayed, you don’t care about money or talent or other trappings of success. I can acknowledge that someone is all of those things–rich, talented, successful. But the person they are is a different story, and in my experience, all of the money and talent and success tastes like ashes in my mouth when I know that someone has violated the one person on this earth to whom they swore to be faithful. It’s that simple for me and I don’t need to inquire further. I have disengaged from cheating “friends” and acquaintances, and I feel nothing but relief. I will never trust them as a person–period.

Why? Because someone who is capable of violating the trust of the person they publicly promised to love most would not hesitate to lie, cheat or betray any other person–including me, their business partners, children, family or others. Dishonest people do dishonest things, and there’s nothing more dishonest at it’s core than infidelity. It’s the hallmark trait of people I don’t want in my life.

Pupsticle
Pupsticle
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

My STBX said he’d really like a Christian marriage (I was an atheist). I agreed so we were married by a minister, before God. And guess what, he is the one who has broken the covenant twice. His first excuse was that I had emotionally abused his ‘holy temple’. Now he says he is even willing to give up on his religion to get rid of me. In the end the atheist valued the covenant more than the ‘Christian’.

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  Pupsticle

Pupsticle, I should have been clear–swearing & promising publicly before your family and friends before the universe is the key–so why do it if you don’t believe it?! If your ex believes in God/the Bible like he claims…well, then I REALLY hope he likes flames.

My ex was a Jesus Cheater, too, and he cheated with dozens of women, including at least one other married Jesus Cheater, She had the gall to send me dozens of texts detailing how *I* could become a better person. She quoted Bible verses, sent me prayers she said for me, along with well wishes. And she sent me those texts while she was committing adultery with my husband and getting pregnant by him in our home (while we were still married, or course).

I have found that Cluster B personality disorders don’t discriminate based on race, religion or gender. It’s sad but true. You can find disordered people of every type and sort, and it’s always disappointing. You will be so much better off very soon. Please hang in there and have faith that there are much better days ahead for you after your rid yourself of this cancer.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Well said Sara! I would like to quote you on my FB page once my divorce is final if you don’t mind…

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  LadyStrange

That is so kind of you, and YES! Feel free to quote away! I apologize for all of the spelling/grammar errors. Also feel free to correct those. I was furiously typing away and had only 8 minutes to do so before a conference call–I should have edited my post better. But here’s the story behind my post. I hope it gives someone a laugh.

My Dad’s best friend taught me that lesson when I was 12 years old. There were about 15 families from around the country and we all vacationed together at a fishing camp/resort in Canada the same week each year. Most of the families only really knew each other from that one week together each year, but we had a lovely time each year. The summer I was 12, one of the men showed up for the week with a new, younger woman who was NOT his wife. He also had three kids whom he’d left at home with his wife. He bragged that he had just left his wife for this woman.

As they were cleaning fish together one night, with all of us kids nearby, my Dad’s friend John told my Dad that Doug was an idiot and what does it say about a man when he can’t manage to be faithful to the ONE person he swore before God to love and protect? John was a bit older than my Dad, but he said that it really defines who someone is as a person when they could do that to their wife and children. That has always stuck with me.

The other families wanted nothing to do with Doug after he showed up with his “new girl”. All of the kids were upset because our friends, Doug’s kids, weren’t there. My Mom & the other wives were crushed for his wife. It was my first real dealing with abandonment and cheating, and I didn’t like it one bit–it soured the entire vacation for every single one of us. My Mom worried every day about Doug’s wife and how she must be feeling, knowing we were all on “her” vacation with this wretched new woman. Meanwhile, Doug was a big mouth bragger who acted like he’d won some trophy. It made everyone queasy and we all just wanted the week to end.

There is one rather funny “plot twist” that you might enjoy if you enjoy potty humor mixed with justice (and if you don’t appreciate both, stop reading!). My middle brother in particular has a heart of pure gold and is also quite the imaginative prankster. He had been very close with Doug’s son and was crushed that he wasn’t there. My parents explained the situation to my brother (then 8 years old), and my brother was so upset for his friend that he cried. Later that night, when the rest of us were in bed, my brother snuck out of our cabin and went down to the dock, where he took a huge dump on the floor of Doug’s fancy boat.

All hell broke loose the next morning. Naturally the entire camp saw and heard about the obviously human poo in Doug’s boat (and a lot of people thought it was really quite perfect). Doug was incensed and demanded a confession. It was the talk of the resort. No one confessed.

My brother admitted his ‘dirty deed’ to us on the 12 hour drive home, and when he told them what he’d done and how, my parents (who do NOT condone such behavior) laughed so hard that they had to pull the car over. Our family still laughs about it 23 years later–Poor Cheater Doug and his Homewrecker going to the dock and finding my 8 year old brother’s turds in his boat. Fitting, somehow. 🙂

(And all of the families changed their vacations to another week so that we’d never have to see Doug again.)

Thankful.
Thankful.
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Sara thank you,
Just before reading your post I got a phone call from the cheating eX of a friend of mine, calling to wish me a happy birthday. I was cordial and accepted his wishes but he then wanted to delve into my seperation and the health of my youngest child who is on chemo as if we were long lost BFF’s.
He was quite taken by surprise when I stated I had no intention of acting as if we are friends. He tried to justify his action claming I only had her side of the story. They had issues they fought.

Did you cheat?

But, but, but……

No! Did You chose to cheat.

Yes eventually but, but and now I’m sick and doctors don’t know why…. And in the past I have always been there for you and X

You cheated on your wife Because of that action I do not wish to engage with you, that is my choice. And that is all I going to say.

I hung up and read your post.
Omg My Ex and I sang at his wedding my X was one of his grooms men. He like my X vowed before God, family and every other whiteness to honour, love and cherish forsaking all others. Yet are quick to point the finger to justify their own empty inner core.
Thank you again for your post.

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful.

I love this! I love this because I used to be so much more tolerant, so non-judge-y of people who had cheated on their spouse. Now, I can hardly hide my disdain for them and I make a conscious choice to avoid these people. You hit the nail on the head: “Did you cheat?” And if the answer to that is YES–that’s all I need to know. I don’t care that your wife had been too busy with the kids, that you “felt disconnected”, “needed to find yourself”, etc. Because people feel that way all the time…ALL THE FREAKING TIME!…and yet they choose to resolve it by helping more at home, taking their wife on a nice weekend trip, or otherwise putting that energy into their MARRIAGE and KIDS in order to reestablish that connection. I am choosing not to have you as a friend if you choose to resolve those issues by putting your d**k into another woman. Period. If that’s too harsh? Then so be it.

Sunny
Sunny
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Sara, Scott… best responses *ever*. Thank you both for telling it like it is.

Kira
Kira
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Very well said! Whenever a politician/businessperson is caught cheating, people will say, “Oh well, their personal life has nothing to do with how good a job they are doing” and I always disagree for the reasons you put forth.

Nain
Nain
9 years ago
Reply to  Kira

Thank you Sara – there is no 50 shades of gray here. If cheating is abuse and families are subject to deceit and dishonesty, children are taught to keep secrets and vows mean nothing, then WHY would talent be admired? Simple truth, love and respect are all that is ever lasting. Ya got it or ya don’t.

I don’t always have time in my life to be around good and decent people, why would I waste a second admiring someone who’s a cheater?

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  Nain

Exactly! It’s about priorities! Who do you choose to have in your “inner circle”? Not cheaters and liars. Who do you spend your time looking up to and admiring? Not cheaters. It’s really that simple. You can appreciate people’s talents despite their cheating, but why bother too much with them when there are so many GOOD people out there to spend that energy on!?

moxie
moxie
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Wow!

BrAVO!!!

Lizzy
Lizzy
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Completely agree with Scott & Sara.

Uniquelyme
Uniquelyme
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Sara, Awesome post. You nailed it. When I have to talk to people who are known cheaters (business), I can’t help but think, “Is he/she really speaking the truth?” I feel that these folks have had way too much practice and can lie and still appear truthful. So I always do additional due diligence before I take their word for anything that matters in the business decisions I make.

When it comes to friends, I absolutely want nothing to do with cheaters. Life’s too short to allow pond scum to contaminate my world.

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  Uniquelyme

I recently watched the movie “The Other Woman”. It was the story of my entire married life (10 years) and I had NO CLUE. NONE! Especially with serial cheaters (which my ex was) it is about putting up a great front while secretly living a very deceitful life. They lie because they feel entitled & empowered. I’ll go so far as to say it’s never one single affair or mistake–it’s how they live every single aspect of their life. When I searched, the deceit was everywhere, including in our finances and his business dealings. He was cheating on me while cheating on his other affair partners! When you’re an honest person, your mind just doesn’t work like that. You can’t hardly fathom that your spouse could be living a whole other life. You don’t think to check his phone, follow him to the gym, check his emails, receipts, etc. Your mind just can’t work that way, because when you’re honest, you instinctively think others are, too. When you find out how rotten people can be, you can be infinitely more careful in every aspect of your life in order to protect yourself. Your circle gets smaller but you choose to be with people who are much higher quality!

Thatgirl
Thatgirl
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

And the choir says amen!!!!

X1000

hurt1
hurt1
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

I remember saying (maybe even sobbing) to my ex: “We stood before our family & friends in church & pledged to love another & forsake all others. You just slapped all those people in their faces because they believed in you.”

Sara
Sara
9 years ago
Reply to  hurt1

hurt1, I said almost the same thing to my ex. But they suck! 🙂 And they think they’re above everyone else, and that they are somehow justified in not honoring their vows because they are so special. You just have to remember that one day you will wake up and be happy again. Happy–and thankful. Thankful that you didn’t waste one more hour with a someone who doesn’t share your core values. Hang in there–it does get better! I felt almost 100% better exactly 2 years from D-day.

Nicole S
Nicole S
9 years ago
Reply to  hurt1

How did your ex respond?

hurt1
hurt1
9 years ago
Reply to  Nicole S

He stared at me with shark eyes. The very loving man I knew for over 26 years had turned into a monster the moment I found out about OW. He moved out 3 weeks later & filed for divorce 2 months after that. He was my everything but without me knowing, I became his nothing.

Maree
Maree
9 years ago
Reply to  hurt1

Oh, how my heart breaks for you hurt1 but also for myself and all the other Chumps. When you say, “he was my everything but without me knowing, I became his nothing”. I know we all identify with that comment. It is just terribly sad for all of us.

Moxie
Moxie
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

well said!!! and I so agree

Marci
Marci
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Totally agree with your sentiments Sara.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  Marci

Me too.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Me, too , Sara. But, I bet few people who have not been betrayed like we have agree with us . thye consider folks who hold this view small minded and provincial etc.

Maree
Maree
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Me three.

syringa
syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Sara….Amen Sister!!

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  syringa

Well said Sara!

Nicole S
Nicole S
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Beautifully said Sara!

tflan386
tflan386
9 years ago
Reply to  syringa

Great post, Sara! I agree, infidelity is sinking to the most profound depth of deception – it a person can sink that low, then cheating on family, friends, employers, or even on their income tax, is child’s play to them. Their dishonesty spills over into every facet of their life because they know no other way.

NCstevie729
NCstevie729
9 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

Agreed!! Great post Sara ~ I can honestly say that I am more angered and disgusted with his utter disregard for what this has done, and what he HAD to know it would do, to our son as well as our shared children (his, mine, ours) NO child deserves to have their entire world destroyed because their Father can’t resist some random piece of ass just because it will mend his damaged ego.

Flowerlady
Flowerlady
9 years ago
Reply to  NCstevie729

You’ve summed it up nicely, Sara!

Supreme Chump
Supreme Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  Scott

Scott, I agree with everything you said.

I think some of the reasons I stayed too long with my cheater are that I still had dreams that could only be realized with a husband, my kids were hurting really bad and a divorce would add to their pain, and one of my kids had severe health issues. I kept hoping my husband would become the man I needed him to be.
I finally filed because I couldn’t keep living with his continued cheating and other painful behaviors.

my.walls.will.sing
my.walls.will.sing
9 years ago
Reply to  Supreme Chump

I, too, stayed with my sex addict cheater, hoping he would become the man I needed him to be. He used recovery language to gaslight me into believing he was changing. The dream of rushing to the hospital together when our grandchildren were born someday kept me hooked. A wise friend (also married to a sex addict) told me, “if that’s why you’re holding on, you need to know that my husband cheated when every one of our seven grandchildren were born, because he felt old”. After five years of trying, I filed for divorce, ending a 25 year marriage. I can honestly say that I’m just as excited about having grandkids someday now as I was when I was married. Dreams can still come true without cheaters in our lives! My price of admission for freedom was huge. I gave up living in a 10,000 square foot house and a huge monthly budget. My new little house is cute, and living on a small budget isn’t all bad! His “gift” of making a lot of money was more like a “gift” to manipulate in sales. I’ll take my simple life and find my own cheater free dreams.

willowchumpx30
willowchumpx30
9 years ago

What happened to fifty percent??? Lord that scares me. I am thinking I get fifty, plus something for all the money he spent on ho ho’s and the AP. I am talking luxurious trips around the world, gifts maybe a house. and me the buffoon believing it was all business trips and long days at the office. Instead he was living in pussyland. Evertime I think of it I want to puke.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  willowchumpx30

Have your attorney request credit reports or bank records. See if you can track some of this money complete with dates the money was spent. I would ask for one half back. If I had gone to court I was going to get him on dissipation of marital assets! I didn’t agree to entertain Schmoopie and I know I wasn’t having any fun either!

willowchumpx30
willowchumpx30
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

I discovered he took out large amounts of cash before each trip. 5 – 10k. What was the need for that? Hmmmm… It all just slowly killing me. Don’t want the particulars of affair, just want to find as much proof of spending as I can.

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  willowchumpx30

You will have to pay to get the records. If you have a paper trail and assets in an equity state you can get more than 50 percent. Equitable distribution does not necessarily mean 50 percent. It really depends on where you live. If he has a pension you may also get more than 50 percent. In my case the cost was not worth the benefit because my cheater is so limited. However, my lawyer did put something in our agreement regarding undisclosed assets. He will have to pay my lawyer and give me 50 percent of hidden assets if and when they are found. Hoping for the best for you!

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago

Good for you My Walls Will Sing Again! I too wanted that wonderful grandparent/ retirement dream with Cheater Mc Gee and he was in every vision of my future, but then I came to the realization that I could have all that and without putting up with his BS! That was my AHA moment. Then I started placing him in my own head into his Schmoopies life and imagining how she is going to deal with his extraordinary BS. I figured if she “loves” this idiot so much then it’s time for her to take him and his ego on fulltime! It was liberating! I couldn’t be happier! Now I can’t even guess if she is “happy” with lover boy, but I don’t care! They got what they thought they wanted and I am got what I wanted. Karma is a bitch. But they can deal with it now!

HM
HM
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I agree with Scott. It wasn’t always this way but after everything I’ve been through, now when I learn this about someone I can’t help but see them differently and find myself pulling away. It’s an indication of character or lack thereof.

AllaLie
AllaLie
9 years ago
Reply to  HM

I agree with Scott and HM. I didn’t always think this way either but I do now. Won’t listen to Jason Aldean anymore, for example. I know it won’t make any impact, but I certainly dont want to “support” people like this.

Lisa
Lisa
8 years ago
Reply to  AllaLie

OMG…I thought I was the only one…Jason Aldean…freakin loser! He not only cheated on his wife…he taught his lil girls that Daddy could disrespect women! When the best thing you can do for your Daughter is to LOVE their MOTHER!

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  HM

One of my favorite authors is Dickens but I hate the person he was. I try to separate the work from the man but it’s really difficult for me now.

Marezy doats
Marezy doats
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Lets leave the historical figures out of this! Remember that a divorce was not always an easy thing to get, and in the past people did not always get to freely choose who they were going to marry. Today, there is no excuse not to honor the one you have freely chosen. If you cant, then take the route of an honorable divorce. Those options did not always exist in the past.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  Marezy doats

If you mean Dickens, he did chose to marry Katherine Hogarth. And there was no reason for him to treat her the way he did regardless of whether or not divorce was an option. He was very abusive to her.

Marezy doats
Marezy doats
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

I just meant generally. I dont think we can judge people from a period in which an honorable divorce was not an option. That doesnt mean they couldnt very well be utter jerks, Im sure many were. I think it clouds peoples current understanding of cheating, for which there is really no excuse, to conflate it with a historical situation in which people didnt have the choices we now have.

hurt1
hurt1
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

If I recall from a New Yorker article, Dickens left his wife for another woman. The movie version of Dr. Zhivago used to be one of my favorite films. I”l never watch it again because of his cheating with Lara.

willowchumpx30
willowchumpx30
9 years ago
Reply to  hurt1

This is what pisses me off! These movies and books romanticizing affairs. Society romanticizing affairs. Someone PLEASE do a documentary on the ugly truth of affairs. How it emotionally destroys a family. All the collateral damage. The often times years of abuse, lying, financial pilfering to support a double life. Sacrificing time,energy emotions from their own children. How about someone poll all the healthcare professionals about PTSD, emotional breakdowns, women and men ending up on medicine or in the hospital. I had nightmares for six months straight! How can this be legal?! How does it just get swept under the rug?! (My cousin just discovered an affair and ended up in the psych ward for 3 days!) entire families needing emotional/mental care. Spouses being left with nothing or nearly nothing. How in the hell is it legal to do this to another human being? We need laws passed where having an affair is abuse, where the perp is held liable along with the AP if they knowingly enter into the affair. Both parties should be held accountable. They both knowingly inflicted damages. I am certain if healthcare were vocal and the shame taken away, laws could be passed to make these MF’rs accountable for their actions. I first held my H accountable, after all it was his choice. I now see that the AP is also culpable if knowingly entered into the affair. They perpetuate and encourage the continued lying, spending, etc. they become accessories to the crime. I see red every time I think of this. It is just not right. Nearly fifty percent divorce rate? I bet if ppl were unashamed and told the truth, nearly all those are from affairs. In which case we would have nearly fifty percent of the population could potentially support passing a law. Just my two cents.

Jeepin4me
Jeepin4me
9 years ago
Reply to  willowchumpx30

Amen Willow…my thoughts exactly!!! Let’s get that action goin!!! Let’s all STAND and MAKE A LAW!

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  willowchumpx30

I agree willowchump, the AP’s are not innocent. Granted he used multiple strategies to get them into bed. Yet there were consistencies on his part. They were always vulnerable including, recently divorced women, married women, and chumps. He always gained empathy from each and every one by complaining about the lack of affection he received and how he was SOOO unhappy. For him it was always about sex, power and control. He always dated three at a time. Many of the AP’s thought he was a knight in shining armor and had recently left abusive men or had experience with an abusive relationship. The chumps who had quite a bit going for themselves always dumped him immediately after I called them. He ended up with a fellow narc possibly bp given her criminal record and behavior. Her entitlement fueled his and he wanted everything. He ALWAYS left their phone numbers and evidence where I could find it. He enjoyed every last kibble. I like the 50 percent idea and making a movie about the realities of cheating and the impact it has on families. Unfortunately, it would tip off Narcs and they would go further underground and update their cheating rules. However, I am for changing the perception of the romantic aspects 100 percent. Popping the hopium bubble to the masses would certainly increase the divorce rate freeing more chumps!! I can’t emphasize enough how finally facing the pain of the life I led with a cheater has made me stronger and gave me the shove I needed to file. Yes, I spend many a Saturday night crying, however it is not for the loss of the cheater, as he is repulsive. He is divorced, living with his AP and still calling OW and placing ads to hook up. I grieve for the person I lost in this relationship, myself.

willowchumpx30
willowchumpx30
9 years ago
Reply to  willowchumpx30

Oh and the AP is not just an accessory to the crime they are accomplices. They aid and abet, encourage the spouse and malign us. They lie they cheat and they spend OUR money. That is stealing. That should be punishable by law. That should be prosecutable.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  hurt1

Yes he did and treated her horribly. His mistress was seventeen and he was middle aged when the affair started. He was horrible to his children as well. He wasn’t a nice person at all to say the least. And I don’t cut him any slack because his father went to debtors prison and he had to work in a blacking factory for a short time. Even his work involving reforming prostitutes seems a bit “off” when you read about his true character.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Oh, and after he died his mistress told someone how “she loathed the old man’s touch.” It’s all quite sordid and pathetic.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

I am able to compartmentalize the folks that will never be personally in my life. When it came time for Clinton’s term #2 I voted for him. Someone asked how I could do that and I replied-well I wouldn’t marry the d-bag but I kind of like the way he’s running the country. In the spectrum of dishonest politicians I didn’t find him any better or worse than the rest of them.

I feel the same way about authors and other entertainers. That’s just me.

Lizzy
Lizzy
9 years ago
Reply to  cheaterssuck

I agree that there were cheaters who have been great political leaders but the reason they got elected is beause they were “sparkly”. There are plenty of decent politicians out there who will never get elected because they get outshined by the narcs. Michael Dukakis comes to mind as a decent and capable politician who was rejected because of his bland personna.

tflan386
tflan386
9 years ago
Reply to  Lizzy

Think of Jimmy Carter – who only lusted in his heart! A one term president. No personal scandals – still married to his first wife. An honourable statesman today.

He's Gone
He's Gone
9 years ago
Reply to  cheaterssuck

I’ve had trouble with this too, but I also have to compartmentalize. I mean, who didn’t love Robin Williams?

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  He's Gone

I do love Robin Williams and it bothers me so that you can almost always see pain in his eyes.

I have never and would never cheat, but we all come with different strengths. I also would never commit suicide. I figure as bad as I feel, it’s not for me to choose when I go. I don’t even put my pets down.

Maybe we need to just let our cheaters go and focus on our own strengths. We can’t make them be faithful. I do have some judgements about their weaknesses but in the end that’s not my place either.

Robin Williams presents like a person with bipolar disorder and he did a lot of drugs early on. Maybe he did the best he could. Mental illness is not a choice.

mrsvain
mrsvain
9 years ago
Reply to  He's Gone

i was one who didnt love Robin WIlliams. i couldnt stand him in mork and mindy and havent seen any of his movies that i consider admirable. mrs doubtfire was tolerable but i cant watch it over and over. but that is just me. i know i am not in the norm on a lot of things. i also cant stand jim carrey either.

Nicole S
Nicole S
9 years ago
Reply to  cheaterssuck

I feel the President of the United States should be a person of strong character. I can’t get my head around Clinton, JFK, and Thomas Jefferson. All were definitely cheaters that made good contributions to our country. Fine, I thank them for the contributions but they are not men I admire.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  Nicole S

Yeah, I think anyone has the potential for cheating (or whatever other bad behavior) and that just escalates in correlation with power/status. I wouldn’t put cheating past either of the Bush presidents or anyone else, either, but maybe the wives were content to stay in the dark & eat their shit sandwiches. I mean, how would we ever know?

Nicole S
Nicole S
9 years ago
Reply to  Nicole S

I’m sure there are others I don’t know about and I trust that they all suck.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  cheaterssuck

I agree–I’ve made the distinction between public & private morality for years. Take John Edwards–one of the biggest personal scumbags to cheat on his wife during her cancer treatment, lie incessantly–BUT, he drew attention to the plight of people in poverty more than any other politician since LBJ (another personal loser, who nonetheless launched the War on Poverty and signed the Civil Rights Act).

And let’s not forget MLK, Jr. himself–amazing admirable as a civil rights activist, but a cheater.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I also voted for Clinton twice, and I can’t say I’m sorry I did, but what Edwards did was horrific.

I feel very sad for Monica Lewisky who was just a stupid, young intern who got sucked into his power. She was hurt the most by that. I doubt that Clinton saw her as an affair partner.

What Edwards did was incredibly horrible. His oldest daughter forgives him, so I do believe that even cheaters/narcissists are deserving of compassion. Her older brother was killed in a car accident. She thought as horrible as that situation [her fathers infidelity/lying] was, nobody died. I have great respect for her.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Lizzy–I do agree Edward’s wife would have made a better president!

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I can’t pretend to know what was in Edward’s mind, but LBJ had a deep sympathy and love for his mother, who was ruined by rural life and hauling buckets of water to the house every day. That helped motivate his views, so I”m not sure blind ambition (of which he had plenty) purely accounts for his trying to help the poor. I think some of his concern was heartfelt.

Lizzy
Lizzy
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Plenty of people – politicians and others – are trying to draw attention to the plight of the poor. Why was John Edwards able to draw that much attention? Because he had the looks and the charisma to do it — NOT because he actually cared. He had no morals in public or private life; he pretended to care because that is what he thought would get him elected. And, maybe, he did it because his wife was pushing him in that direction (SHE should have run for president). Same goes for LBJ.

insistonhonesty
insistonhonesty
9 years ago

Then there are those of us who know The Amazing Person our spouse CAN be… and stuck/stick around to encourage them there. Devote ourselves to it because being generous with love is what we chumps DO.

But they fuck around instead.

Time to let that go: *I* will do it, for me, by my damn self.

mrsvain
mrsvain
9 years ago

i was in that club. i believed in boyman more then anyone in his life. i saw the Greatness in him, i saw how much He wanted and tried to do the right thing. i NEVER thought that he would just quit. at a drop of a hat. he loved me and the kids until he just didnt anymore. throw up your hands and turn your back and all 14.5 years forgotten just like that *snap of your fingers*

Chumpette
Chumpette
9 years ago
Reply to  mrsvain

i am a member of this club too. 26 years gone. just. like. that.

i did not respect cheater presidents or actors before my abuse. now i find them very distasteful. movies, TV shows, books, songs about cheating too. all trash.

i hate cheating.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

It’s the reason I no longer watch Letterman.

Sunny
Sunny
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

You’re right, I can’t bring myself to watch him anymore. I guess that’s why. I’m shunning him. Too bad our shunning doesn’t have the impact that Amish shunning does… wouldn’t that be something? #ShunThem #ModernMeidung

As chumps, if we all banded together, do you think we could have enough of an impact on modern culture to make shunning bring about any social change?

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Sunny

No, I just think we are different from them. We are more evolved. Sex is fun, but it doesn’t actually lift your rank or position in life. There is something to be said for loyalty.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago

^^ This. ^^

WhichWayDidSheGo
WhichWayDidSheGo
9 years ago

I tend to harp on about my depression… I would have put up with a lot because I fear that no one else will accept me as I am. Hell, the ex didn’t even do that. What I really fear is that no one else will tolerate me.

There was a recent post on Captain Awkward about something similar. The common answer is that we all deserve love and someone who not only tolerates us but treasures us. Hmm. Think I’ll pop on down to the partner store and pick up that model, thank you very much. I know things don’t work that way, but it’s a dark, scary world when I fear that the only person I thought would tolerate me won’t even do that any more.

What? How dare you suggest I have some self-esteem issues to resolve!

KarenE
KarenE
9 years ago

WhichWay, I agree that “we all deserve love and someone who not only tolerates us but treasures us”. But I think we deceive and limit ourselves when we think that only a romantic/sexual partner can provide that. I get LOTS of authentic love from my kids, certain members of my extended family, and most consistently from my friends and my cats. Yes I would love to find that ‘partner store’ where they have a whole shelf full of good people to choose from! But I refuse to believe I won’t be loved as I deserve to be loved (and as I love back, too!) until I have a new partner.

I know that an unhappy relationship and personal difficulties can leave us without those loving relationships, but friendships and pets are something we can all cultivate, so that we get, as well as giving, the type of love we deserve!

Jen
Jen
9 years ago

I wasn’t a lot of fun to be around either, but I have an excuse. I was depressed that he was fucking around. He didn’t love me the way I loved him. I started drinking, and apparently when I drink sometimes I say things the cut a person to the core. I am not as good at playing dupe when I have a buzz going.

WWDSG, I think you have to give yourself a break. Your depression probably comes from not being able to make a bad situation better. I think we blame ourselves because we are searching for a way to fix things and we can’t control what they do or feel. I hate to admit it, but I miss him. I seriously doubt he misses me. I find that depressing.

NCstevie729
NCstevie729
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

@ Jen & WWDSG ~ I wasn’t a ton of fun myself… but neither was that selfish asshole. The difference is that WE, even in our state of depression or yuckiness…. would NEVER have cheated on THEM. If they had approached us about counseling… or getting help… would we have said “yes” instead of giving them the finger and running out and finding someone else to bang to make ourselves feel better. We wouldn’t have screamed back at them and blamed them for all that is wrong in the world.

I miss mine too, and like you Jen… I doubt if he misses me either, or our beautiful heart broken son (IF he does he hides it very well). I try not to internalize it because it really isn’t about us, when I really think about WHAT that says about him….. that he either is NOT capable of or simply unwilling to have ANY remorse for the pain HIS fuckedupness has inflicted on our son is absolutely more than what I can stomach. I am ashamed for him.

I can SEE the discomfort all over his face when our son cries “Daddy, I miss you, please come home. Why do you want to live at Grandma’s??” All that asshole can muster up is stupid shit like “ok, let’s try to be a big guy.” REALLY??? you stupid selfish motherf*cker… he is SEVEN…. he is supposed to cry about this… he is hurting. I told him not to say that stupid shit anymore, told him i don’t want him making our son ashamed of his pain or tears.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  NCstevie729

Yes, that is so unfair to your son. It’s one thing when they hurt us, but when they hurt the kids I really think they are monsters.

He said to me once, “I guess it’s just easy for me to turn it on or off because I was hurt so much when I was younger.” I take this to be a reference to one of the first girlfriends he loved caught fucking a friend when he came home early from work. But none of that had anything to do with me, and I wouldn’t do that to the least favorite boyfriend I ever had.

My son was saying, “but dad does x” to justify some unacceptable behavior. I told him flat out, “but dad isn’t a nice person. He does the best he can, but he just isnt. Have a heart, be better than that.” Of course my son is almost 20, but he also has high functioning autism. He knew exactly what I was talking about and seemed relieved that I wouldn’t accept less from him. They are relieved to have one parent who is responsible in heart matters.

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

@ Jen ~ way to go Mom 😀 I have TRIED to tell X that his failure to instill “consequences” and “accountability” into his children (from previous marriages) is crippling to them. They grow up thinking it is okay to shit all over people and they will just keep doing for you… because…. well…. just because damn it (entitlement??? creating future narcs?) Kids NEED boundaries!!! Watching MIL’s attitude about the affair and the demise of our existence… it became VERY evident where he learned that bullshit…. and WHY he is the way he is… duh. of COURSE it had to be something wrong either “with” me or that I “did”.

And Jen just because you feel angry about this does not meant you ARE angry, you should be pissed…. the sadness… same thing… it comes and goes. Three days after he left… in the midst of my medical dilemma…. he was fighting with me like crazy… I called my oncologist and asked for something for my anxiety, I swear I thought I was having a friggen heart attack. She prescribed a low dose Xanax, I never ended up taking it…. but I have it… I hate meds, always have and I try to avoid taking anything unless I absolutely have to. I am 6 months past DDay #2 and it’s 3+ months since he left and I STILL can’t sleep through ONE night, it’s better now… I used to wake up every single hour all night long. I still wake up 3 or 4 times every night and can’t sleep past 5:00am. Progress? I think so lol.

@ Thankful ~ it sucks to be going through so much, so glad you understand that HE is the problem. Hope treatments are going well for your youngest, nothing worse than watching our kids struggle with health issues. I have the same dilemma with our future living arrangements. I have been a stay at home Mom… so no recent work history and I can’t rent my own place without some work history…. can’t afford to live where we live now once I am living on my own… so do I pack up my son and further destroy his existence…. new home… new friends….new school?

F*cking assholes….they just shit all over everything and walk away leaving everything in shambles behind them and then expect someone else to clean up.

Thankful
Thankful
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Jen do what will work for you to find that strength you need. You are two months out. For me at two months out I had nursing staff approach me in the corridor while my daughter was an inpatient demanding ( in a loving manner) that I eat something or they would make me. I barely slept, I didn’t eat was overdosed on coffee and walked around like a dear in the headlights. I would ask you to give yourself more time. There is no hard and fast rule to the greif process. If some had of said to me twelve months ago. You will be happy and positive and excited about what your future may hold I would have told them to fuck off. But it is the reality of my life now. Tonight I celebrated my 43 birthday and my divorce that became final a few days ago.
Life goes on, I can either grab it with both hands and run with it or I can hide in my bed and cry. The choice is mine.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

Thankful and Roberta, I really appreciate the encouragement. I just turned 43 as well. I am so sorry you must go through this while your daughter is sick. I just don’t know what to say, but I have a son with autism so I know having a child with special needs is a unique kind of heartbreak.

I do believe it will get better, but it sure as hell sucks right now. I hang onto the thought that his OW probably became less interesting after I withdrew from the triangle.

And as I said that, I just felt like I was in high school. God help me, the next man I meet better be a grownup.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

And Jen, Thankful just said it, choice!!! We now have a choice. We are NOT victims! We were victimized by some selfish people, but we can now walk away and we are free at last to choose to be our best! No one can take that from us. Unfortunately for our dysfunctional victimizers, they have to live with the mistakes they willingly chose. I believe that IS karma! Our lives are now filled with bright possibilities and theirs? Ummmm, not so much! Pity them, they are pretty sad characters!

Thankful
Thankful
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

I wasn’t fun to be around because it was as if I constantly had to think for two people plus parent three kids.
I was alone even when we were together. I was sexually rejected both outright and often due to his inability to get it up. I was constantly questioned over my state of mind, due to my irritability and at times irrational behaviour. While being told to let him help me, to trust him, there is nothing we can’t face together, all while he was cheating with random partners. I did the counselling, repeatedly I have had so many variations of counsellor, that now I am learning to be one I know what is coming. But non of it changed what was happening between my Ex and I. I felt a constant failure to him and my children. 15 months post d’day and I am doing well, my kids are good, I am studying, my youngest has 11 months of oral chemo to go, I am divorced but having to take X to court to obtain property settlement, my life is in limbo as to where we will live, and the dysfunctional cheater has moved on to his next cover story. Am I depressed? probably a little fuck who wouldn’t be. Am I on meds? No! Why. Because although I have at times struggled with depression. Yes to the point of being hospitalised, I am not a victim. And was determined to build inner strength And I came to understand that the biggest problem I had was HIM. And with him gone went several of my health problems.
Love to all.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

Thankful,
I hear you about building your inner strength, but I am considering meds. I am two months out of it, so I think that is time enough to process the initial grief. I can’t afford to go into a hospital and I don’t want to drink myself into a ditch. That would be really unfair to my son.

I am not 16 with a ton of opportunities. Also, I’m not hugely interested in opportunities as I really did care for this man. My job is not incredibly satisfying, so it’s not enough of a distraction.

I’ve taken Lexapro before and it really did help me. If I don’t feel better within a few weeks I will get a script.

I know my mental health is not dependent on this man, but just try and convince my brain of that right now. I have been relying on this blog to get some of these feelings out because I don’t want to write drafts of emails I know are not in my interests to send. In the end, I will probably need to see my friendly nurse practitioner who is tweaked enough to do anything I ask. (Yes I know that’s horrible, but Lexapro isn’t the worst med you can take.)

I guess it’s just a matter of being smart. Our stupid cheating exes are not the top of the gene pool. I don’t want to be angry or sad or superior. I just want my life back.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

I fully understand what you are saying Jen when you say , ” I just want my life back”. I am about two weeks out of my final divorce settlement. I know the feelings you have are more about the “limbo” phase. I assure you that once you settle that issue it will be easier to slog through the emotions you are feeling about your dysfunctional ex. Once you know what you are actually going to have to work with in the future it gives you some solid footing. Then you find your every waking moment isn’t filled with thoughts of the cheater and you are better able to steer your life and thoughts to a better place. You DO in essence get your life back. You will feel so much better and I personally see my ex for the pathetic dope he actually has become. Following his sex organ. Makes me kind of pity the idiot actually. His life is crap, but no longer my problem. I say, good luck with that Schmoopie!

nic
nic
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

I could have written that, Jen.

pianomommy
pianomommy
9 years ago
Reply to  nic

Me too!

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago

You said: “Why it gave me pause to divorce the once third-rate federal employee I was married to, I have no idea” — because you are the kind of person who does NOT judge someone by their material station in life. I’m guessing most of us chumps are similarly non-judgmental.

I stayed with my cheater for 16 years though I came to see that his career was going nowhere. I thought he was a good man. I was wrong. In some people’s eyes, his job as a home remodeling contractor wasn’t as impressive as mine as a lawyer. I even pumped him up to people, like he was building the Taj Mahal when he basically fixes people’s broken doorknobs and light fixtures. I used to bristle when my eldest son (from H1) called Cheater a “handyman,” Iw would correct him and say, “no he’s a Contractor!”

It still doesn’t matter to me. I would have stayed with him if he was a garbage collector if he hadn’t turned out to be a serial cheater with absolutely no respect for me.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

I’m with you, Muse. When we started out, I was a doctor (still am) and he was a bus driver, then a cashier at REI, then a waiter. I didn’t care. He was fun and funny and kind and loving…. Then he rose through the ranks to become an Entrepeneur, and now his head can barely fit through the door. In fact, a friend of ours (who knew that I’d bought him that business and he was still drawing no income until it “got on its feet”) complimented him on “creating something” and “putting something new & fresh out there in the world.” I confess, it galled me that we had SPENT money on this venture, and he was in no hurry to MAKE money (for us, for our marriage) and he was STILL getting credit for being innovative. Hell, I guess I could quit my job and make art-sculpture out of cardboard boxes, too, but how does that help raise a family?

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

I hear you. I’ve read before in your posts how you funded that restaurant for him, and you can see the entitlement oozing from him. He was quite happy to take your money and then also get all the narkly sparkly credit for being “creative.”

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Yeah, he could pick a bottle of wine that paired well with a nice cut of steak. It’s hardly rocket science.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

(sorry, that’s “Entrepreneur”)

TheUpwardWay
TheUpwardWay
9 years ago

Yes… agreeing with Scott here also; but being a bit objective here. “Great” things/inventions are intrinsically beneficial to society. A cheater may have an (uncommon) stretch of time where they actually concentrate of doing something good, and produce some grand innovation, art, et cetera. But at heart, they may be hoping to use this grand invention to bait persons into cycles of abuse, or kibble dispensing.

I won’t discard a great thing/invention solely on basis that the cheater created it – I would weigh it on its merits. However, I can’t/won’t support a cheater financially, or otherwise.

TheClip
TheClip
9 years ago

I like sparkly things… I have always gone for the man with the mojo… The alpha ( dont gag) . Attracted to the confidence and the giftedness. Looking back thru all my realtionships there was always something that set the man apart from his peers. For the Canadians here …. I was a ‘ a puck bunny. ” The starving artist with his entourage… The neurosurgeon… Called into save the pt. Did I want someof their sparkles to rub off on me? No. I had enough going on in my life. Its just what i was attracted to. Some melt for blue eyes… For myself it was ‘ the gift’
Men came and went in my life. The few long term relationships ended because i was unwilling to live in the shadow of their lives. In my marriage I became extremely devoted to promoting the man. My life took a back seat to further his career… So he could sparkle on. He is a highly decorated, high ranking officer with multiple specialties… Works with other government agencies… I will refrain from mentioning to avoid my home being raided.
Did I help create the monster? Maybe. Doesn’t excuse any of his behavior or choices. He is still an asshole.
Is my picker broken… Yup

NCstevie729
NCstevie729
9 years ago
Reply to  TheClip

@ The Clip

My picker (also broken) is partial to Alpha assholes as well…. go us eh? lol

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  TheClip

Yup, I have enjoyed the sparkle–X is highly intelligent, world-renowned in his field, attractive even at 64, great dresser, can be very charming.

I am DONE with sparkle at the expense of integrity. Know what I find sexy now? Kindness. Self-effacing humor.

bibi
bibi
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yep Tempest, that’s my X also……although he’s younger at 51. I backed him, admired him, pushed and supported his career. He used my input my creative knowledge to further his career.
And lied and cheated….in many ways.

I am totally with you that sexy is Kindness. Self-effacing humor.

Mrsvain….yes honest. integrity. loyalty and biggest of all KINDNESS..

mrsvain
mrsvain
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

honesty. integrity. loyalty and kindness

not too many men here in my area with those qualities.

nic
nic
9 years ago
Reply to  TheClip

While I dated (and all the boot knockin fun therein) like a total boss until I was 25, Ive only loved one guy in my life and he was not the sparkliest, or the richest, or anything -est. But we loved each other. He treated me great for 24 yrs, respected every decision I made for me & our family, supported my artistic quirks, my confusing depression, middle of the night UTIs and together we built sparkles and a very nice lifestyle and a kick ass family. But he had (unbeknownst to me) serious flaws beneath the bravado, and when we disagreed about a very impactful business/personal decision – first time we weren’t on the same page- he immediately found someone who applauded him for stupidity, lying, cheating, pulling his pants down – the whole shebang. Natch, since she was screwing her own family over, she may have been trying to convince herself of her own goodness. And when he wasn’t eating those kibbles, his mother was right there as well, putting him on a pedestal and reiterating that I was an ungrateful controlling bitch. he had consensus! He was right! Peel him a grape, he’s the man! And that awesome business decision with the awesome partners? The impact it had on our lives was like a mail bomb. And he got cheated. No one from the above story, including mommy, is in his life right now, except chumpy me and the kick ass kids. smh. (Slap my husband)

His takeaway? “Over eating plastic kibbles makes me feel like shit. Can I please have the filet mignon back please, side of humble pie?”

This is hell.

mrsvain
mrsvain
9 years ago
Reply to  nic

i feel your pain nic. boyman loved me and the kids up to the point when he just stopped. i am still not sure WTF happened but i am not trying to figure it out anymore. we had a good life, a decent marriage and were working together to built our family.

but like your, boyman couldnt handle my depression and therefore emotionally unavailability after my daughters death. the one and only time i was able to handle everything, the first time i really needed him to step up and support me — he found someone who enabled his bad decisions and made him feel better about being the shallow, weak pathetic male that he is, someone who agreed with his stupid, hateful, spiteful decisions to leave his family, and yes, she was screwing her own family over, she already left her husband, cheated with many different boyfriends, walked out on her own kids so she could find a man and drink/party all night, so she could live with whoever was willing to take her in at the time, no car, no house, no job. she actually told me misery loves company.

but unlike you, i let her “win” since he wanted to fire me from the position of “taking care of him” she can now deal with all the insecurities, the sneaking and hiding, the alcoholism, the suicide threats, the “poor me” syndrome…..

nic
nic
9 years ago
Reply to  mrsvain

In light of what has happened since he fired her (from both the work job & the blow jobs), it became clear he used her as a sexual outlet, she used him to get out of her shit life. She’s also a serial cheater on more than one husband. Classy broad. But she didn’t love him, she felt entitled to the lifestyle he could afford that she couldn’t. Nor that her hardworking h could afford. She clearly had it in for me and the “cushy work free” life she expected I was living (we never really met). Of course at that point my life consisted of me writhing on the bathroom floor dry heaving and crying, “what the fuck is happening to me”, so….

H now says he can’t believe he got used by a whore. Shocking, isn’t it? don’t shit where you sleep, asshole.

WhichWayDidSheGo
WhichWayDidSheGo
9 years ago
Reply to  mrsvain

That’s how my therapist puts it, that I was fired. We didn’t break up. I was fired from being her partner.

I’m sorry that you have/had depression and I’m sorry that you lost your daughter. I hope there are some bright spots in your life. I struggle to find mine, but I’m told they’re there.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  TheClip

Me, too, Clip. I enjoy sparkle. And for some (Mrs Bukowski), it’s worth it. Yes, it’s probably low self-esteem that keeps us accepting less. But for some people (we all have our disorders), the trade is actually worth it, just to be near the Sparkle. Maybe it’s the chumps version of Kibble or Cake. Only you (i.e., each of us) can decide what you are and are not willing to tolerate.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

My friend, who also is divorced after 15 yrs of marriage through hubs cheating, is convinced that if the man looks good on the outside, he’s a cheater or a cheater in waiting!
Please tell me (and my friend) that not all good looking men (and women) are cheaters!!!
Anyway, hearing from CN, we know by who our cheater picks that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder! (though my X picked a nice looking young stripper!).
I mean, come on, even CL just said that Mr Bukowski “face looked as if it had been spattered with buckshot and he probably smelled like rancid meat”!

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

Its generally because people who are ‘good looking’ get an ego, and they have the mindset of ‘Well, I can treat people like shit, and people will tolerate it. If they don’t tolerate it and they leave – well, 5 other people will clamber over each other to fill their place’. Pretty much just narcissism in a way.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

Well, I’m gonna say that I myself am actually not unattractive, and I am not a cheater. But there is a recent study of attractive men (you know how these studies work) who were judged to be less generous and kind than men who were evaluated as less good-looking.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

There are also developmental studies showing that cute children get fewer punishments than less-cute children. The sense of entitlement starts early.

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

ringinonmyownbell is absolutely 100% correct….. the outside “package” has NOTHING to do with cheater potential. My Dad… and then my step-Father were BOTH serial cheaters….. relentless cheaters. My Dad was very handsome (short man syndrome maybe) also an alcoholic, and a huge jerk but not a porn addict…. step-father on the other hand…. NOT handsome at ALL but he dressed well and kept himself well and had decent money…. an alcoholic … porn addict…. serial cheater (maybe worse than my Dad) and GET THIS…. they both hung in the same circles…not only did they both end up married to my Mother but my Dad’s last wife had dated the step before ending up with my Dad. Wth? can’t make this shit up.

ringinonmyownbell
ringinonmyownbell
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

I don’t think the outside is any measure of ‘cheater potential’ I think as Tempest is saying… it is all about actions. Pity play being a big red flag and all the other red flags. I used to hear about not listening to his words but looking at his actions. I was always looking for BIG actions,(does he overtly lie, does he fuck donkeys… my level of discernment was not great) but not little actions. Now, every poor bugger who comes into my life gets the inscrutable Ringin’. I keep my own counsel. My first assumption is not to think the are nice people until proven otherwise but they could be dangerous to me, until they prove they are not. I look very carefully at their actions, even the most minute actions. I don’t care if I never have another man in my life, I am determined to keep these people and their toxic shitstorm vapors out of my life.

Irish
Irish
9 years ago

^^^THIS^^^^ I hear you Ringin’. I can’t imagine letting my heart go to another man. Every man who has ever been in my life has broken my heart. And I’ve always had long term relationships. I’m bitter I guess. Honestly the best people I’ve ever had in my life are my girlfriends. They have been there (30 years) through thick and thin. Good and bad. Always had my back. I’m thinking, men! Bah! Who needs that shit?

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  Irish

I’m right there with you Irish. I can not even IMAGINE wanting to fall in love with or be intimate with ANY one, definitely at this point and maybe not ever…… My picker is absolutely NOT worth a shit, pretty much every man I’ve ever picked has been a cheater and I’ve had my heart broken a few times too…. NOTHING in comparison to the damage this asshat inflicted.

I am not one of those people who can’t be alone. I raised a daughter by myself, supported us both and it was just us…. I had serious relationships but never lived with anyone else, not until the asshat anyway and by then she was already 18. She says he “fooled us both Mom” and that’s not easy. I’m with you….. who needs that shit?

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

@ Donna…. not only was I present when asshole met this schmoopie POS…. so were our KIDS…. just like always we were all present at the competition to cheer him on, usually I am back stage helping him get ready… but this last show he was “paying” someone to handle his nutrition and help him with his posing and this guy helped backstage this time. Nice huh? So I am in the seats in the auditorium with our kids (one ours, other 3 his from previous marriage) and he is back stage chatting up the married twat. Funny thing is…. the asshole forgot his posing trunks at our house in between the morning and evening show…. guess who jumps in the truck and drives 90 miles an hour to our house and back to grab his trunks and get them to him in time to get on stage…. “oh, thank you SO much…. I love you…” just ask him though…. poor sausage says I wasn’t supportive…. and i quote “where were you when I needed you?” really??

After I caught him sweet talking this pig I checked the phone logs….. SAME exact thing had happened back in June after that show…. he was chatting up one from THAT show…. same thing…. we both met her at the check in…. had THREE of our kids with us…… I called her after DDay #2 to ask her WHY she thought it was okay and she said “I told him he had WAY too much baggage.” I said “WTF?? We were there with our kids… wtf is wrong with you bitches?”

I absolutely second what you said…..Fuck cheaters!! I truly wish him EVERYTHING he deserves…. AND THEN SOME…..

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Oh Donna, you don’t need to go to a bar. I think that is the worst place you can meet someone. Everybody is superficial in a bar.

If you want to meet someone, and you don’t sound like you do, you can try meet ups. It’s an online social thing where people who have a common interest gather to socialize. It worked for my best friend from high school. She ended a bad relationship and consciously worked on making new contacts. Not just for romantic reasons, she just wanted to move on. So she met the love of her life and now they are together 5 years. I think that is so much better than a bar or match.com.

Again, you don’t sound ready. I’m not either, but we will have options when we are.

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

I started dating my EX at 16 and got married when I was 21. He cheated throughout our entire marriage which lasted 36 years. Recently, I was talking to someone nice and my daughter asked me if I gave him my phone number. Really? Then after going out with her one night to have a drink she told me I needed to look like I wanted to meet someone. Really? I guess I look married. I am not exactly sure what the fuck that means. Maybe I just look like I’ve been hit by a snowplow.

Talking about games; is this how they are played? I just don’t understand how this works. So I have to SELL myself by looking like I might be a good fuck and give someone I just met my phone number. This disgusts me in so many ways. Like I said, I never dated or had a relationship with anyone but my
EX. Evidently, HE knew how the game was played.

Isn’t this why chumps end up where we are in life? We invest our time. love and life with a game player. I can’t help but think of that ‘moment’ when they met at a bar while I was there. Is that fucking magic or what? He complained, she empathized, he told her he was married, she said she didn’t care, she passed him her phone number and poof!!!! This proves there is no LOGIC with cheaters. Then on top of that everyone thinks you can magically get over IT. They don’t know the depth of IT. I struggle to get over having to get tested and treated for STD, finding out he was seeing more than one whore, the fact that the ONE that allowed him to move in was arrested multiple times, that she is disgusting/ugly/trashy, and that he disregarded his whole family.

And the best we can do to win the game is to know they were the trash that needed to be dumped. After putting up with so many years of crazy making I feel like I can talk the talk but I have to learn how to walk again. The hardest part is knowing how EASY it is for them to just fucking walk away like we never existed and we somehow deserved IT.

If I ever get to the point when my therapist thinks I CAN date again, I will be myself. Donna doesn’t pretty up at a bar and slide her number to someone she just met, nope! That will never be my game. Fuck cheaters. I truly wish him EVERYTHING he deserves.

Chumped in Chicago
Chumped in Chicago
9 years ago

Every so often a sentence makes me stop and I know I’ll remember it because it resonates with me. “Most of our cheaters are underachievers, never living up to their full potential”. Wow – This was pretty powerful for me, and the next line in my head immediately was “that’s why he never wanted me to live up to my full potential”…chipping away at my dignity so I always felt lesser than him. Yes – I gave him THAT much power.

onthehill
onthehill
9 years ago

OK my comment is way late Chumped in Chicago, but, I could absolutely write the exact. same. post.

Sunny
Sunny
9 years ago

That was my 1st XH!!! OMG. Chronic underachiever. Still is, and is on OWife #3. I’ve lost track of how many APs there were. Partly that’s due to meh but mostly it’s due to that I can’t count that high 😀

conniered
conniered
9 years ago

The cheater I married also was full of potential when we met. However, I think he was find with me earning the money. He was ok with me working as hard as I was able/wanted with no complaints. But I wanted so badly to stay at home with our son. It was never going to happen. Looking back now, I see how hard I worked and maybe he tried to keep up and just got to the point where it was just too much work. And now, 7 months separated, he is still looking to me to run his life; to handle the hard things like child support and division of assets, the separation agreement. Ridiculous. Everything I am doing right now in that regard is to save myself and my son from financial devastation. I am not helping him in any way.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
9 years ago
Reply to  conniered

conniered – I hear you!! Mine is also sitting back waiting for me to handle the division of assets per our separation agreement. Truth is, I am doing what I can do simply to be off of anything joint with him as soon as possible. But he makes it difficult. We had a car that is debt free and my name needed to come off the title. So I asked him to meet me at DMV to take care of it. Even though this is an asset going into his name only, he argued with me via email about why we had to do this and then just stopped responding to my emails. About 2 weeks later, he emailed me with a date that he could meet me there. I can only think that it falls back to an entitlement thing – as long as I was asking, he didn’t want to do it. But if he thought he was driving it, it was fine. I’m sucking it up and doing what I have to to get all this done. I keep reminding myself that my goal is to get him out of my life. Once the last piece of paperwork is done, I’m going to celebrate – not sure how, but I will.

DefyingGravity
DefyingGravity
9 years ago

XH and I work in the same smallish professional community. When we first got together, and for the first half of the relationship/marriage, he was we much more prominent and experienced in the field than I was. At some point during the marriage, those roles reversed. I started getting a lot of attention for my work, and his public status slipped dramatically when he left a high profile job to start his own (not very successful) business.

When I confronted him on D-day, one of the major ways he blame-shifted was to say that he felt “emasculated” by my success; his actual word. That he was jealous that I was getting so much attention, and he was in a dead end gig, and he blamed me for making him feel bad about himself and his career. He felt that my success was making him look bad publicly. That was one of the most F-ed up things I have ever heard.

I told him that when he was the more successful one, I of course aspired to be as accomplished as he was, but that I never wanted to take what he had away from him. I was proud of his success and what he had achieved; and then I worked hard to get my own achievements too. I never wished he wasn’t successful because it might make me look bad. It was so messed up that he wanted to take away what I had, and that he felt like a lesser person because his partner was successful.

That was one of the biggest things that prompted me to leave, because that kind of thinking is truly disordered.

Wiser Finally
Wiser Finally
9 years ago
Reply to  DefyingGravity

So sorry DF, yours is a very sad post. Real love is being THRILLED that your spouse is doing well, or wins an award, or gets promoted, or is admired by others. Real love bursts with pride when your spouse is successful. Being threatened by or in competition with your partner isn’t love… a sad commentary, but also a useful one as it’s a good red flag to watch out for when dating again. If someone doesn’t want the best for you because their own ego is to fragile to handle it, it’s time to kick them to the curb!

Wiser Finally
Wiser Finally
9 years ago
Reply to  Wiser Finally

Oops, I mean DG (Defying Gravity).

Chumpita
Chumpita
9 years ago
Reply to  DefyingGravity

Same here. We are in similar academic fields but I made more money than him in a private university. I tried to get him a job at my university because he is brilliant and I was proud of him, but every time he messed up the interviews and said that he didn´t want to work where all the snob rich kids studied (FYI. there are many brilliant not wealthy students on scholarships who prefer my university to his).

He wanted to continue being a martyr for his badly paying underfunded university (and so I probably couldn´t run into him and his OWs). Now he accuses me of making more money than him so that he doesn´t have to pay as much for childcare, etc. I think he was always jealous of me and competed with me, but I never realized it because I didn´t have the same attitude. I always thought our individual succeses contributed to the couple and the family. Many people who know us thought we were an awesome couple in that way.

Interestingly his three OWs are grad students or lecturers who make half as much money as he does (so like 1/4 of what I make). Karma thing is that even though he can continue to show off his brilliance and importance to them, he has no money left to do anything with them that we used to do (“academic tourism”, etc) !

“S/he who laughs last, laughs best” as the saying goes..

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago

Yes. In hindsight, I can’t help but see the little moments that I think helped push him over the edge of deciding to leave me for Schmoopie. I used to compare our marriage to the analogy of pushing a giant rock up a hill — I thought we were pushing together, but it seemed like every time I stopped pushing, the rock never moved. IOW, I was doing all the heavy lifting. Well, about a year before Dday, I cut way back on that. I kept the house running, bills paid, etc., but the “extra” stuff (especially as directly & exclusively benefited him), I cut WAY back on. In particular, I remember a 2-day layover in Iceland where I just kinda wanted to see what it was like (FYI, it’s super cool), but he evidently had some grand designs of finding some hidden hot springs to soak in, or a waterfall no one else knew about (common kibbles shared by many are not as tasty), but did he do any research about that? No. So on Day 2 of our stop there, he was very angry, sullen, depressed, and he confessed this was why, that he’d wanted to do something else, but of course he hadn’t set it up, so we just wandered around the town, went for a scenic drive, … *I* had a GREAT time!

The point is, he sucked at the follow-through. I guess I should consider that whenever it pains me how little he was willing to work to resist Schmoopie and talk to me and work on our marriage, instead of scooting out the back door. That guy never worked on anything.

NCStevie
NCStevie
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

THIS ^^^ “The point is, he sucked at the follow-through. I guess I should consider that whenever it pains me how little he was willing to work to resist Schmoopie and talk to me and work on our marriage, instead of scooting out the back door. That guy never worked on anything.”

THAT right there is EXACTLY what infuriated me!! Not only unwilling to “work” to fix us he wouldn’t even soften the blow with one ounce of true communication, asshole wasn’t even sorry. And KNOWING how HARD he was working at winning her over.. the HOURS texting and talking on the phone and dropping everything to go meet up with her when he wouldn’t take ONE day off to spend with his kids. HER…. the CHEATING… THAT was the only thing he was willing to put effort into? Really?

Mine just wanted me to pretend like Mommy did, that nothing he had done was wrong. I was supposed to let him lie and cheat and just eat the shit sandwich and be nice. I offered him everything…. immunity…. offered to stick by him and trudge through the entire mountain of SHIT if he would just come clean and lay it all out on the table…. stop lying and hiding. He either wouldn’t or couldn’t do it. I stood my ground. I didn’t do it gracefully…. but I did it.

He isn’t a bad guy, he is just so ungodly selfish, he has always come first… always. It has always been about him…. I just got tired of standing on the sidelines clapping and cheering him on for being a selfish asshole. That’s his Mother’s job, she’s good at it.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

It seems they see us as an adversary. I think they are working narcissistic mommy issues out on us. That is infuriating because I hate his mother! Augghh!

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Wow! I could have written that! Mine did the same thing. Just extraordinary effort to please his Schmoopie and crickets for me! Absolutely ZERO effort!

insistonhonesty
insistonhonesty
9 years ago

Same here – he felt we were in competition. The thing is… I had no idea. Apparently, I was always “winning.” He resented that; all the while, I thought we were on the same team. Winning for US, not me. That should have been glaringly obvious, as my apparent “winning” benefited HIM. HE wanted to win… he just didn’t comprehend that you have to DO something, to accomplish that. heh.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
9 years ago

Insist – that reminds me of my own ‘unknown competition.’ My stbx has been playing pool for 20+ years. I’ve always supported him and attended many of his league nights and tournaments. In 2007 I decided to start playing. I got good – very good. In the 4 years I played, I was top shooter on my team twice, was top woman shooter in my league and won 3 tournaments in one year – including the end-of-year tourney, which was state. My stbx HAS NEVER done that well. It was about 2012 when we started having problems and when I think the cheating started. I think he was JEALOUS! Here he’s been playing FOREVER and I come along and kick ass in no time. I look back and wonder why he never watched my matches……in fact, when I won state – I CALLED him to meet me for a drink to celebrate. Although for all those years I was there for him til the end, always cheering him on and supporting him. I have since put down my stick, but plan to play again once I get the hell outta here! How stupid, huh?

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
9 years ago
Reply to  LadyStrange

Just a side note – I went out with a friend last weekend. I played 2 games of pool (with guys). I ran the first table, then just beat the next guy with his 5 balls still sitting on the next table. After that, I had no takers. Just an FYI – guys hate to be beat by girls….regardless of what game you are playing.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago

I’m with you guys. He resented that I could make money doing something I loved.

I can’t say he was an underachiever. He had a decent job with many cushy perks but was miserable. You’d think he was out digging ditches in the cold. This was a job he really wanted in the beginning and I have to admit that he worked hard to get it. But like everything else in his life, including me, he soured on it after awhile.

StrongerEveryday
StrongerEveryday
9 years ago

My cheater had no special gifts. He wasn’t a pillar of the community, or a leader, or even an involved friend in an active social circle. He was largely absent as a spouse and father. Since he’s been gone, my life hasn’t been all that different in terms of the day-to-day responsibilities of work, kids, and home. I wish I had a good reason for paying that price of admission for so long.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago

I was just thinking that, SE: how non-different my day-to-day is. I always figured life is full of compromises. So XH wasn’t this or that, but no one is perfect and overall it still seemed like a “good trade.” OW tipped the scales, and in hindsight it’s for the best.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

Yes! THIS! My life is not much different day to day, but the exception is I don’t have to worry about Mr. Cheater pants “needs and wants” and it makes life so much easier. NWBiblio, I can definitely see that we may have been married to the same guy when I read your description of your trip. My ex was exactly the same way. He expected me to be the “cruise director” and if he was bored or unhappy then I paid Hell! Isn’t it astounding how these cheaters share so many of the same characteristics and behaviors. I’m pretty sure I’ll be just fine and happier staying single! I do want to mention our last trip when we went to Disney World with our daughter, her husband and our two grandchildren. He seemed distant, but relatively satisfied. I found out later that his Schmoopie stalked us to Disney and the one day that he begged off going to the park I am sure they were together! Now isn’t that special???

informal
informal
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Things are no different with me as well because while we were married he lived single/married and left me married/single.
We began dating in HS. He went to work with his dad in a self employed business and I went to college. I finished college and he moved in with me when I got a job and were married about six years later. The thing is I never thought that he was below me. I loved him at the time and took my vows seriously.
I know now that he was NEVER committed but until child mediation when he reared back in his chair with a smirk declaring out of the blue that I was” college educated” that I was caught off guard with what seemed like resentment. I was thinking this man is crazy and WTF does this have to do with what the mediator is talking about?
Im still trying to untangle that remark. Did he mean to convey that I made more than him so he would not have to pay support? If that was the case it would not matter because it was simply about visitation. Crazy shit!

With Brave Wings
With Brave Wings
9 years ago
Reply to  informal

that’s exactly what it was about…money.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Roberta……now theres a trigger for me (yours not going one day to disney to be w/his whore).
Every trip we went on for 10 years, he ALWAYS did the hotel’s massage thing and was gone for what I’d call noteworthy. But in the 2nd to last trip we did, Hawaii, (it was miserable because he helped to make it that way for me during his stripper lust days; I didn’t know of any cheating yet) his massage thing lasted like close to 4 hours!! REALLY? While dummy me stayed in room waiting on his highness! Well of course that was when he was cheating and I’m sure he was on the phone with her and all their ‘i love you’ ‘i miss you’ that they both texted all the time! BTW, this stripper that he had to have moved in with him and withing 3 months was out of his house because he put an order of restraint on her!! KARMA!!!
He now has his sights set on a 22yr old; probably another stripper or streetwalker. That seems to be his drug of choice. He’s 54 and a fucker!

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

IHaveHate–the man has to pay for sex and still thinks he’s all that and a bag of chips? Pathetic.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Tempest……..on your comment of being pathetic bc he has to pay for sex. Positively he is pathetic. BUT he doesn’t have to pay for sex, it’s just his preference. He’s a sicko!!!

Current Chump
Current Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

“the man has to pay for sex and still thinks he’s all that and a bag of chips? Pathetic…..”

This.Is.My.Stbx.Exactly. He pays for the underage, or underage Asian “strange” and he thinks he’s hot. He thinks they really want him & that people look at him & think wow he has a great body for 46. What a loser! And when I caught him he was parked directly in front of one of these places with his big ass Mercedes with personalized plates.He truly feels no shame though ‘cuz dontcha know he feels entitled to it and I’m not the boss of him. What a sad legacy to leave for our small son

Yes, these men are out there in masses. 40+ year old men paying for some random “strange.” Why do you think there are so many massage parlors, Craigslist ads, etc. around? Because there is such a high demand for it and these women are making tons of money off these losers.

As one of my male friends put it “Guys don’t care how many men were “there” before them, they are just happy they are “there”

Ewwww…..I’m going to go take a bleach shower now

onthehill
onthehill
9 years ago
Reply to  Current Chump

Add to the list Tanning Salons. I have a friend who knows a man (married) who goes to one of these tanning places to get blown. Ewwwwww, gross !!!!

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I can’t wrap my brain around how anyone pays for sex. That’s just not sexy to me.

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

IHaveHate, yep! Every trip we made I was actually sharing him with his HO, but I didn’t realize it till after the affair was revealed! Suffice it to say that I spent hours alone and he was off somewhere usually texting or calling this HO! I have many, many triggers! It has ruined so many memories for me! I hate him for that!

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Oh and mine will be 60 years old soon! Jebus! Grow up already!!!

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

IHH, his stripper thing is so pathetic. It won’t end well.

freedom2live
freedom2live
9 years ago

For me, I think I saw more in him than was ever really there. He was so kind to me for the first 2 years and then the abuse started. Slowly, erratically and totally irrational. The confusion is what kept me there so long, the Jekyll and Hyde.

Now though, he tells me that he knew what he was doing. He says that the manipulation and abuse were deliberate and it is my fault for not standing up to him.

I know that is not true. I did try as best I could. Of course I was trying to use reason and coming from a place of love, wanting to resolve and understand, I didn’t know I was dealing with crazy.

He is and never was all that. He claimed to be but never really succeeded at anything. Fired from 2 jobs in 10 years. Started his own “contracting” business with no skills.

I honestly can’t believe that I put up with this man. I guess I was just hanging around waiting for the good guy to return.

The slow descent into abuse, it almost seems like I was in a fog while living with it. The cheating turned out to be the kick in the ass I needed to get away from him. Divorced for 7 months now. It still hurts but not because I want him back. I think it hurts because I finally had to face the reality of who he really is and that the man I loved never really existed.

onthehill
onthehill
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

F2L – I could have written your post nearly verbatim.

The only thing I would have left out was my X never admitted he knew what he was doing – and that it was abusive. He has never owned that and never will. He did however, over the course of our 30 year marriage, mention that I should have stood up to him (he maybe said it 3-4 times in all those years). I DID try from time to time, only to have it artfully shoved right back down my throat.

The reason I stayed so long was because I kept waiting for the good guy to take over the bad guy. Because, when he was good, he WAS and I was so connected with him. But what I didn’t understand was that he really was irrational and that the bad guy was as much a part of him – in a permanent way – as the good guy. I really had no chance but didn’t get it.

Like you, I don’t miss him, and didn’t from day 1 that he was gone from my home. I can look upon the good times we did have and appreciate them for what they were. What is SO hard for me more than anything else is ALL the wasted years. I can’t get them back. That’s half my adult life (and the good years at that).

informal
informal
9 years ago
Reply to  onthehill

Raising my hand as well! Twisted rage, I cheat, I’m a lesbian, he is having little birds following me etc. He denies the abuse and in his reply forms he noted that “he had said some things but neither of us were always on their best behavior at times during the marriage.” Shit head! I try not to dwell on the time spent on him and focus on what I have done with the kids. It is hard but I do not him.

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

Freedom, I am right there with you: “He always had a way of twisting things until I thought I was causing the anger and now I see it clearly. It never was me, I could have been anyone. He has treated everyone like this. I just did not know. He lied to me about who he was, what he thought, what he had done.” My Ex said to me in one of our post DDay “talks’ before i finally went NC, “you uniquely bring out the anger in me.” If you read the Lundy Bancroft book “Why Does he do that?” you see that this is a LIE. They know what they are doing. The anger emanates from them. They choose to inflict it on you.

I am so sorry you went through this. I lived the same nightmare. Ex’s narc rages were always simmering just beneath the surface and the contempt that he felt for me (why???) was palpable. I found out later that he did all this to his longterm relationship before me (well, that “overlapped” with living with me for our first 7 years). I hope you have found some peace.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

freedom2live, your post resonates so much with me.

Ironically, when I first met him, I didn’t like him and tried to avoid him. My single friends are the ones that pushed us together. But when he tells the story of how we met, it’s all about how I wanted him from the beginning. When we first met, he didn’t want to hang out with any of my couple friends because he didn’t feel he was good enough. He was also unhappy in his job and wanted to change but was afraid – I encouraged and supported him through that. I made more money than him initially and was in a corporate environment. He always seemed to feel less of himself because of it. Like you, I tried to use reason and come from a place of love but I didn’t know what I was dealing with was crazy.

Over the years, he worked hard and smart, or at least I thought he did, and moved into a management position. Now I’m wondering if he lied and cheated his way there. Our daughter arrived and even though I continued to work, it took a back seat to my family. He passed me in salary. That’s when the abuse became noticeable – it was there all along but vague. Again, like you, I can’t believe I put up with it once it became noticeable. I guess I made family, jobs, and life the most important things to me. That’s when I spackled for him, waiting for the good guy to return.

You are absolutely right – the slow descent into abuse made it seem like a fog while I was living it. And ‘the cheating turned out to be the kick in the ass I needed to get away from him’ too. The fact that I let him abuse me for so long coupled with this >> ‘I think it hurts because I finally had to face the reality of who he really is and that the man I loved never really existed’ is what I struggle with every day now. Eventually, I’ll get past it but it’s not an easy road.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

BBCheater…….no it is not an easy road. For 10 years I thought he was a very decent, upstanding man. Then…….slowly I started noticing things here and there and red flags here and there and I tucked them all nicely away like a believer ought to do!
I know now that he NEVER loved me and used me as his frontman to look like he had a normal, happy life with his employees and peers. I also now realize that the 3, yes 3, ex wives he had that he said was bi-polar, manipulative, liars, cheaters etc…..was actually him. And I believed him!!! This sickens me!

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

IHaveHate – YES to this > ‘used me as his frontman to look like he had a normal, happy life with his employees and peers.’ I actually told him that we, my daughter and I, were a facade for him….he used us to look like a normal, family man.

I think he loved me as much as he is capable of loving someone. That may be none at all or some snipit of love but definitely not real true love.

HM
HM
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

OMG. “the manipulation and abuse were deliberate and it is my fault for not standing up to him”
This is sick.

freedom2live
freedom2live
9 years ago
Reply to  HM

Yes, it is sick. It’s the oddest thing now to see him for who he really is. He always had a way of twisting things until I thought I was causing the anger and now I see it clearly. It never was me, I could have been anyone. He has treated everyone like this. I just did not know. He lied to me about who he was, what he thought, what he had done.

Even now when he says these things, I don’t know if it is a lie or the truth. All I know is he is and abusive asshole. That is my truth.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

Mine told me the abuse was deliberate too. He wanted me to be so miserable that I would be the one to walk so he could be the guilt free good guy. Sick and cowardly.

freedom2live
freedom2live
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

My x was abusive for years before cheating and leaving. I think the true shift came when I did stand up to him.

I came home from work the day after a raging episode from the previous evening. He was there waiting. Waiting to do the dance of I am sorry. I shut it down. I extended my arms, palms up and said, “no more. Do not ever tell me again that you are sorry. Stop treating me like this. I am sorry means nothing without change.”

He stopped saying “I’m sorry” but everything else remained the same. I look back on that time now and it seems as if I just shut down. I stopped living completely. I worked, did the chores but was just numb.

Now I feel raw, exposed still but I am beginning, just beginning to have times of happiness again and some times of peace.

IHaveHate, I feel that anger too. I feel that I want some restitution and then I realize, there is nothing that I want from him.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Lina…..Though he never admitted to this (of course!), I’m convinced thats exactly what the X was up to too! I’m certain he wanted me to be so miserable so that I would be the one to leave and he could tell everyone that I just left and whatever he would want to add to it.
Well, I guess he never figured I was such a loyal hanger onner!! I was a trooper! Yes indeed, I stuck it out (till I figured it out)!
I really do trust he sucks guys. I just am sooooo angry that I feel like he got away with murder (of my soul, mind, psyche, etc). I can’t seem to come to grips with being ok with this part; I will send that final letter. I won’t rest till I do!

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

IHH, I believe my ex was doing this to me too. Looking back I see that he started ignoring me a lot more around the time he got involved with his grad student. He stopped going to lunch with me, he started traveling more, and when she moved to another town he became despondent. It was also around this time he became so detached from me that I became very depressed.

He’d go on business trips and I’d be looking forward to him coming home so we could do something together. I was desperate to connect with him, but he’d make an excuse about needing to do something outside all weekend when he got back. I remember asking him “do you just need time alone to unwind?” I remember he just stared at me like he had something to say but said nothing.

I remember telling my counselor that being ignored was just as abusive as being hit. In fact it might have been easier if he hit me because then I’d have recognized it as abuse and gotten the hell out of Dodge.

Anyway, I do believe he was wanting me to become so miserable that I’d call it quits so he wouldn’t have to. It blew my mind when I realized he had so little personal integrity. He used to be one of those people everyone looked up to. Some of the greatest geniuses in history had feet of clay.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

Yes, they don’t expect us to stick it out because they wouldn’t. They don’t get loyalty and commitment, let alone love. It used to hurt me so bad to know that he never loved me until I figured out he can’t truly love anyone. He doesn’t know what real love is.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

That seems like so much more work than just being honest and saying, “this isn’t working for me.” All that to be the good guy? And they don’t even come off as the good guy. Somebody needs to design a course for high school students that teaches people how to let go if something is not what they want.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

That’s more than your truth, F2L. It is THE truth. Have you heard the latest story on the news about the documentary regarding that heinous rape & murder on a bus in India a couple years ago? The filmmaker interviews one of the rapists who says it’s the victims fault for fighting back. Deranged minds always have a reason it’s not their fault. Your XH is just a different version of the same psychopathy.

freedom2live
freedom2live
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

NWBiblio, that just gave me chills. The coldness and heartlessness of it all and then to blame it on another, just incomprehensible.

The things he has stated are just so twisted. “I abused you our entire marriage and I hate you for that. You were supposed to save me”. Or , “I kept my promise to you to keep you safe. Now you have learned to never let anyone abuse you again. I made you strong”.

Blaming me for the abuse and then taking credit for my surviving it. Just so twisted.

I do believe that he is probably some kind of cluster B. It doesn’t even matter though, he is devoid of empathy, compassion and from the things he says, not much in the intelligence department either.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

OMG freedom – I heard a similar line of shit. He had a friend coming over A LOT and I asked my stbx to ask him to stop coming over so much cuz I felt like I had to stop what I was doing to entertain the guy until he came home from work. Since then – I have been accused of ‘cheating’ with this guy and it was MY RESPONSIBILITY to ask him to leave. Also – since we’ve been going through our divorce all kinds of shit has come out of the wood work. Like – my stbx just recently told me the reason I got fixed after our last child (18 years ago) was so that he KNEW HE COULD NEVER CHEAT ON ME if he were the one who got fixed! Whatever! That was news to me! 18 years ago when I had my daughter I was ok with getting my tubes tied because I knew I didn’t want anymore kids. We discussed it and decided if we were to ever ‘break up’ he told me he MIGHT want more – and because I KNEW I DIDN’T, I got fixed. Now suddenly he tells me the reason he didn’t is because then he would HAVE TO BE FAITHFUL? Well – he may have been “FAITHFUL” in the physical sense, but buying another phone line behind my back to sext/chext other women….. Is NOT FAITHFFUL dumbass!

Wow33
Wow33
9 years ago
Reply to  freedom2live

Hey it’s been 7 moths for me to since my divorce!!!
I still mourn too but not because I want him back. Just sad about the manipulation I was going trough, him and his Mom against me:( both narcs!!

tflan386
tflan386
9 years ago

No pause here to divorcing lying, cheating, obfuscating, sordid scumbag Bill Clinton. Read Christopher Hitchens’s book “No One Left To Lie To: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton” for an excellent analysis of a character flawed individual. He and opportunistic Hilary deserve each other. Hilary spackles widely – his infidelity was “a vast right wing conspiracy”. And the semen stain on Monica Lewinsky’s dress was planted there by the CIA. Right. A despicable couple.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

Hitchens did a year as a guest faculty member at my U when I was in grad school. He was a piece of work, but brilliant.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

He did need to get his lard as to a gym, though.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Ass

Lizzy
Lizzy
9 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

I have been thinking a lot about Bill and Hillary Clinton lately with Hillary’s impending presidential run. I hate the thought of her in office, not necessarily because I don’t agree with her politics but because I think she represents something that I can no longer tolerate. Yeah, she probably thinks of herself as a modern-day Eleanor Roosevelt but this isn’t the 1940’s. No champion of women, equality, and fairness should put up with as much as she has from her husband. Especially if you believe that infidelity is abuse! The fact that her marriage is still intact, I think, sends such a damaging message – one that we see in so many of those disgusting HuffPo articles implying that “everyone does it” and to “get over it.” I now believe she is a terrible role model and would hate to see her become the first female president. We can do better!

tflan386
tflan386
9 years ago
Reply to  Lizzy

So tired of the Clintons – and I am not even American! Hillary stood by her man because she felt that without Bill’s political cache, she would not rise in the political ranks. Sad, that she would think that way and not trust her own excellent credentials and connections. On the other hand, perhaps she knows narcissist Bill all too well, and was anticipating a smear campaign if she ever dared to divorce him. Then she’d be without a sparkly husband and without the high profile job. Hillary’s political ambitions got the best of her – she’s made a deal with the devil and she’s OK with it.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

Whatever Hillary’s reasons were, she was not the one getting blown by a subordinate. I just don’t think we should hold what her husband did against her.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Jen

I feel bad for her, just like any betrayed. Puzzling, though, how she stayed with him. Her choice, though.

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Not puzzling at all. He was the POTUS. As smart as she is, she is a woman. We have some obstacles to jump over. She is smarter than Bill and he knows this. He backs her. I think this is an example of loyalty trumping sex. We should be happy, we are complaining about sex trumping loyalty.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

I cannot see her worried about a smear campaign, considering the source would be Bill.
Who is dumb enough to smoke dope and not inhale ( or dumb enough to expect folks to believe that crap)?

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

Really liked Hitchens. Clintons make me want to take a shower.( more than my usual every other week).

namedforvera
namedforvera
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Of course Hitchens himself is a bloviating self-contradicting gasbag lying piece of self-aggrandizing shit. (but how do I really feel?) Yuck. Dunno about you, but economically I did better under Bill-dog than any Prezzie since.

Oh, and the email thing? it wasn’t a State Dept regulation UNTIL John Kerry, so he’s the FIRST Secretary of State to have a .gov address.

Don’t believe everything you see on Faux news. Or anything, really.

On the other hand, would I have either married or stayed married to Bill Clinton? Oh hells no! But wow is he smart, and, apparently charming too. Narkle sparkles galore. But as Violet says, the inside of other people’s marriages is their own.

So let’s not confuse politics with marriage, eh? I mean, if we want to look at personal character failures, howzabout that Bush family fortune founded on Nazi collaborationist money? (Or Barbara Bush not wanting to “bother her beautiful mind” about the dead soldiers from her husband’s war in Iraq.) Way to go, team!

Finally, I’m very protective of Hillary–she’s a Sister (class of ’69). We stick together, pretty much regardless. And she’s incredibly competent. Smart, funny. Stands up for women’s rights, worldwide. I love that. Go girl.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

I do not think Clinton is all that smart. I estimated at around 140, which would be on the low side relative to most of us on this site.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

IQ

Jen
Jen
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Arnold how do you know the average IQ on this site? I mean I do well on Jeopardy, but that doesn’t make me better. 😉

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

This isn’t the forum for getting into a debate on the merits of Christopher Hitchens, but I did want to point out that he *isn’t* any of the things you call him. What he is, is dead.

namedforVera
namedforVera
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

Good point, thank you Arnold. Nil Nisi Bonum and all that.

Marezy! Secret handshake! “Wellesley Wellesley, only to be there,” eh? Ironically, I met crapweasel while I was working there…. oh, my. Well, maybe that’s why my kid went to Smith (I was still very happy & proud.) I was CE/DS, but ’86. If you want to share, go ahead.

Marezy doats
Marezy doats
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

Another Wellesley chump here!

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

LOL! That often Arnold?????