UBT: Cheaters didn’t know “what else” to do!

cheater_coldYesterday’s post on closure got this response from “gdmmt” accusing chumps of victim mentality and not caring enough about the feelings of cheaters. I thought I’d put it through the Universal Bullshit Translator.

Guess what? If someone is cheating on you, YOUR RELATIONSHIP ISN’T MEETING EITHER OF YOUR NEEDS. Get it? I’m SO SICK OF HEARING how a cheater is just worse than the devil, and that they are fucking the lowest scum of the earth, and how DARE they not be satisfied within the relationship!!!! HOW FUCKING DARE THEY!!!

Should they have broken up with you before cheating? Of course. Should one or both of you in the relationship be more and more aware that things aren’t working? Yep. Are all cheaters nothing but careless, flippant assholes? NO. Sorry, it’s not black and white that way. I know you don’t want to hear it because you’re the VICTIM in this!! You’ve been WRONGED!! YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MATTERS HERE!!!!

Fuck that noise. Every situation is different from the next one. I read this column and while 1/3 of it is helpful or rings true, the rest of it just sounds like jaded, angry, I’m-the-victim, look-what-they-did-to-me hatred.

The truth is, if your SO cheated on you, there IS a HUGE PROBLEM IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP. No, it’s not “your fault”, but you ARE a PART of this situation. Guess what. Not getting needs met is VALID. If your partner sustained a long time of waiting for you to “change” or for things to “get better” and they just never ever did, HOW SURPRISED CAN YOU REALLY BE if they strayed? It’s not the optimal choice as far as you are concerned, but when someone decides to cheat, many times that person literally doesn’t know what else to do. So they make a huge mistake. And many regret it and wish they could take it back, or that it never happened. I bet you don’t believe me! Cheaters don’t have human feelings!! They’re cheaters after all! The most abominable, diabolical thing on the planet! They’re so bad that you don’t HAVE to pretend they’re human! You don’t HAVE to look at your relationship problems anymore! Why? Because the CHEATER just rendered your whole relationship NULL and VOID! GAME OVER! NO MORE having to wonder exactly what the problems were. The problem only was that one of you was a CHEATER!!

How convenient.

Now for the UBT:

Guess what? If someone is cheating on you, YOUR RELATIONSHIP ISN’T MEETING EITHER OF YOUR NEEDS.

Sounds like a good reason to end it. Honestly.

Get it? I’m SO SICK OF HEARING how a cheater is just worse than the devil, and that they are fucking the lowest scum of the earth, and how DARE they not be satisfied within the relationship!!!! HOW FUCKING DARE THEY!!!

Straw man argument there. You may “dare” to be unsatisfied. No one is saying you must brim forth with satisfaction. It’s what you choose to do about your misery.

Should they have broken up with you before cheating? Of course. Should one or both of you in the relationship be more and more aware that things aren’t working? Yep.

Should I have reconsidered before I stole your credit card and charged $40,000 worth of Beanie Babies? Of course. Should I have been aware that my penchant for Beanie Babies would be my undoing? Yes.

Are all cheaters nothing but careless, flippant assholes? NO.

Who cares? My site isn’t for cheaters. My site is for chumps, the people fucked over by cheaters. I tell people to get out of such relationships. (The banner is really clear that way.)

Are people who steal credit cards and charge $40,000 worth of Beanie Babies flippant assholes? Maybe they’re really nice people who crochet afghans! Maybe they’re nice to their mothers! Who cares? I’m still missing $40,000.

Sorry, it’s not black and white that way. I know you don’t want to hear it because you’re the VICTIM in this!! You’ve been WRONGED!! YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MATTERS HERE!!!!

Some things are right and wrong. You either think there is a justification for cheating (I wasn’t satisfied!) or you don’t. I don’t. We don’t share the same values, gdmmt.

And yeah, chumps are the “victim” in this. They were wronged. And on a support site designed specifically for them, yes, they ARE the people who matter here.

Fuck that noise. Every situation is different from the next one. I read this column and while 1/3 of it is helpful or rings true, the rest of it just sounds like jaded, angry, I’m-the-victim, look-what-they-did-to-me hatred.

You know what sounds like jaded, angry, look-what-they-did-to-me hatred? Posting a shouty all-caps diatribe at people on a support site, accusing them of not caring enough about the people who fucked them over.

Let go of the bitterness, gdmmt. I’m sorry someone failed to sufficiently satisfy you.

The truth is, if your SO cheated on you, there IS a HUGE PROBLEM IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP.

OMG, you’re right! Cheating IS a huge problem in relationships. Get checked for STDs at once!

No, it’s not “your fault”, but you ARE a PART of this situation.

It’s not your fault I stole your credit card, but you should never have left it in your wallet! Tempting me! I think you should own your part about why I felt compelled to steal your credit card.

Guess what.

I think you have a verbal tick, gdmmt.

Not getting needs met is VALID. If your partner sustained a long time of waiting for you to “change” or for things to “get better” and they just never ever did, HOW SURPRISED CAN YOU REALLY BE if they strayed?

What’s really surprising is why you’d ever want this sucktacular relationship back? I mean if it’s so horrible that it compels you to Not Make Optimal Choices, and the person Never Changes for you — why stick around? Why do you want it back so bad? Why do you care?

You can’t have it both ways — this person is so Terrible they made me Do a Bad Thing and then It’s Terrible that this Terrible Person Doesn’t Want Me!

(Oh right. This is the cue for chumps to admit how terrible they are and do the pick me dance for you. Maybe if they can satisfy you, you won’t do Terrible things.)

It’s not the optimal choice as far as you are concerned, but when someone decides to cheat, many times that person literally doesn’t know what else to do.

Speak up? Get therapy? See a divorce lawyer?

They don’t know what else to do? Funny how the clueless, lost, broken cheaters have complete agency when it comes to creating dating profiles and hiding their affairs. They’ve got one hell of a skill set then.

But cheating was their ONE and ONLY coping mechanism? Really? No, it was the easier path than a difficult conversation or an honest break up. And the cheater stays in the relationship because they are extracting value (read victimizing) the chump. Cheaters want CAKE. They want all options. Because more people = more kibbles. More kibbles = “satisfaction.”

So they make a huge mistake. And many regret it and wish they could take it back, or that it never happened.

Okay, cheaters have feelings. I don’t doubt that. But feelings are really beside the point after you’ve done The Bad Not Optimal Thing.

If you steal my credit card and spend $40,000 on Beanie Babies, I don’t really care that you “wish you it never happened.” You’re sorry? Pay me back the money. That’s a start. Sorry is as sorry DOES.

But betraying someone, especially after a long marriage, children, and a deeply invested life together is a much grosser violation than stealing a credit card. The cheater’s feelings are really irrelevant. Moving forward is about demonstrating character and realizing no one owes you reconciliation. You’re sorry? Show some humility. Stop caring what chumps think.

You steal a credit card, people are going to call you a thief. You don’t like that? Don’t steal credit cards.

I bet you don’t believe me! Cheaters don’t have human feelings!! They’re cheaters after all! The most abominable, diabolical thing on the planet! They’re so bad that you don’t HAVE to pretend they’re human!

Oh they’re human all right. Too bad they don’t come with shark masks or something. Would make spotting them a lot easier.

You don’t HAVE to look at your relationship problems anymore! Why? Because the CHEATER just rendered your whole relationship NULL and VOID! GAME OVER!

Yes, game over. Leave a cheater, gain a life. I think we’re on the same page here. By all means look at your relationship problems. If you’re a cheater, vow not to be an asshole in your next relationship and work on your entitlement issues. And if you’re a chump, work on why you tolerated disrespect and learn to have better boundaries.

NO MORE having to wonder exactly what the problems were. The problem only was that one of you was a CHEATER!!

How convenient.

It works for me. All the best to you, gdmmt.

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uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago

Short and simple. If you are not getting your needs met, clearly state your needs. Give examples and let your SO meet them or not. If she doesn’t, leave.

You don’t need to betray your spouse. Just use your words.

Oh, and ask him if he’s getting his needs met as well. After all, it’s not a one-way street. Chances are, there are some things on his list you could be doing better.

That sure seems easier than all the spycraft needed to sneak around and have an affair.

If for some reason you don’t know what your needs are, and you are unhappy, just say it. Maybe your spouse isn’t happy either. Then you can brainstorm about why you got married. Where you ever happy? What did that look like? Can we go back to doing those things?

Maybe it was a mistake to get married. OK, don’t make it worse by betraying yourself and your spouse by cheating.

See, simple.

ken_doll
ken_doll
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

yeah, it’s not hard. even if things don’t work out, at least everyone can walk away with a lot less trauma.

Rosie
Rosie
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Uniballer – my thoughts exactly. This line specifically:

“Not getting needs met is VALID. If your partner sustained a long time of waiting for you to “change” or for things to “get better” and they just never ever did, HOW SURPRISED CAN YOU REALLY BE if they strayed?”

Uhhhh, WAITING for things to change or get better??? I bet the cheater really put a lot of effort in initiating this “change”… In reality you have a selfish spoiled brat who can’t seem to handle when life intrudes on his/her centrality. My XH brought up a slew of resentments, only after he was caught, of course. They were all news to me. Oh, but then he went on to say he knew he’d never find anyone as good as me. Huh?

These people are all so similarly disordered its uncanny.

Michael.
Michael.
8 years ago
Reply to  Rosie

“In reality you have a selfish spoiled brat who can’t seem to handle when life intrudes on his/her centrality. ”

This is so true.

“My XH brought up a slew of resentments, only after he was caught, of course. They were all news to me. Oh, but then he went on to say he knew he’d never find anyone as good as me.”

Mine did the same thing!

I think they all say and do the same things because they all serve the same master.

Imadeitthroughtherain
Imadeitthroughtherain
8 years ago
Reply to  Michael.

My cheater EX did the same and yep, “They were all news to me”. The Other Woman has no idea just how much my EX has lied to her.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Oh Uniballer.. you are so mature and grown up!!!! Talk about your feelings? Discuss problems? Work on things? Work on YOURSELF??? It’s just so much EASIER to blame other people for your shit rather than own it!!!

Right on, awesome comment!!!

dptsxmd
dptsxmd
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Seriously! It’s a good thing my stbx decided he wanted to divorce me. I’d hate for him to have to confront a relationship concern or have to actually talk about his feelings.

Magicrain
Magicrain
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

What constitutes your needs met, because I had sex with him .cooked him dinne. Washed his nasty underwear. Raised our kids. He cheated cause he needed a break. Maybe he should ofnot golfed everyday or lunched with clients or wined and dined “clients”. Seems to me that’s more work than coming home to dinner made kids fed homework done and you plopping in your recliner for the night. Here I will pick up your dishes and wash them. You must be sdo tired from your day. Insert sarcasm here.

KellyP
KellyP
8 years ago
Reply to  Magicrain

Honestly, this is the truth for chumps.

I’ve seen a lot of relationships with cheating and the cheater is NEVER the giver in the relationship. Always the taker.

Which is why it is so ironic that they complain about their needs not being met in a relationship. Because if that is the bellweather for cheating, every chump should be doing it.

Renee62
Renee62
8 years ago
Reply to  KellyP

Ain’t that the truth!

Chris W.
Chris W.
8 years ago
Reply to  KellyP

Beautifully said!!!

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  KellyP

^^^This^^^ no shit right!!??

Meg
Meg
8 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Totally agree!

dptsxmd
dptsxmd
8 years ago
Reply to  Magicrain

Magicrain why was his underwear so nasty?! Poo stains?!

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

LOL, I love you CL.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Running to work so no time for long comment. Just want to say I love you, CL. xox

sephage
sephage
8 years ago

The UBT might have saved itself a gasket or two by just sending that commentator to Google!

http://bfy.tw/1qD6

😉

Deloris
Deloris
8 years ago
Reply to  sephage

Haha! Love that sephage.

Calla2015
Calla2015
8 years ago
Reply to  sephage

cool! I want your skills! That was awesome

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago
Reply to  sephage

That’s what the LetMeGoogle… URL does. The actual URL under the shortened version is http://lmgtfy.com/?q=marriage+issues+solutions

Let’s see if this shows up here, or if something transmogrifies it.

KibbleFree_MightyMe
KibbleFree_MightyMe
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Transmogrify! Yes!! Calvin & Hobbes makes everything better. =D

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Sorry, copied the URL too late, try this one: http://bit.ly/1KoFWv0

Beth
Beth
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

love it uniballer1965!!!!!

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965
ChChChChump
ChChChChump
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

The site is “Let me Google that for you”
http://lmgtfy.com/
Snark tool deluxe!

sephage
sephage
8 years ago
Reply to  ChChChChump

Snark deluxe, indeed! Been using it for years. 🙂

ElectricTulip
ElectricTulip
8 years ago
Reply to  sephage

I worship that snark. Supercool and curiously disturbing.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
8 years ago

“Guess what. Not getting needs met is VALID. If your partner sustained a long time of waiting for you to “change” or for things to “get better” and they just never ever did, HOW SURPRISED CAN YOU REALLY BE if they strayed?”

Well lets see. I ALSO WAITED FOR HIM TO CHANGE! I prayed for that DWI, I prayed for pancreatitis. SOMETHING to slap him upside the head and say “YOU ARE A DRUNK!” But no. I dealt with him coming home at 11:30 on a worknight smelling like beer and cigarettes and wanting to get laid. YUK. Who wants to do that? So then I become the prude. My NEEDS weren’t met when he didn’t come to be with me at a decent hour. Sober.

BUT – I DIDN’T go out to get a fuck phone when MY needs weren’t met. I didn’t get on YAHOO accounts to pick up other women to see if maybe THEY were ok of my alcoholism. No – I stuck it out. Until I found out about the cheating.

If anyone should of cheated because their ‘needs weren’t met,’ I should have been me.

Hopeful Cynic
Hopeful Cynic
8 years ago
Reply to  LadyStrange

“Not getting needs met is VALID.”

No, no it is not a valid reason. It’s only a poor excuse.

“If your partner sustained a long time of waiting for you to “change” or for things to “get better” and they just never ever did, HOW SURPRISED CAN YOU REALLY BE if they strayed?”

I spent a long time waiting for my partner to change and for things to get better and nothing ever did, no matter how hard I tried to communicate that my needs weren’t being met. Straying never occurred to me.

MrsVain
MrsVain
8 years ago
Reply to  LadyStrange

LadyStrange,
again, your story is so much like mine. while i was stressed, overwhelmed and dealing with everything all by myself….of course i fucked up, of course i did some shit wrong, of course i wasnt meeting all his needs. but look at all the shit i was doing, look at all the needs i was meeting for him. look at all the YEARS i had been doing it too, 88.999% by myself.

while he somehow ended up getting his feelers hurt by something i said or did when i was literally unable to think straight the year following my daughters death. AND INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT IT TO ME LIKE A MAN…..he started drinking more, started not coming home on the weekends, started no answering my phone calls asking if he was ok and where he was, started not giving me money to pay the bills or buy groceries for the children, started talking to the oompa loompa hood rat who somehow was always at the same party he was because she bailed on her own children, husband and marriage. she understood him so much more then his boring wife. they made a connection, they both had bad, horrible spouses, they got along so well, they were “meant to be”………

unfortunately, i never had a clue!! because while he was “talking” to her he damn sure WAS NOT “talking” to me, while he was telling her how horrible i was and the bad way i was treating him, he damn sure WAS NOT, while he was allowing her to rub it and make it feel better, he damn sure WAS NOT letting me.. Oh for sure i KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG. i asked a million questions, i gave him space, i crowded him, i offered to help him, i made suggestions, i demanded accountability, respect and reciprocation……..and that is where i fucked up. i not only was dealing with worry, heart ache and confusion on WTF was going on with my husband, i was still dealing with the everyday stress of buying an old house built in the 1930’s, having 4 children to feed, raise and take care of, making sure the house was clean, making sure there was food in the pantry and freezer, making sure the kids got to school and did their homework, making sure the bills were paid, making sure the vehicles were running right, etc etc PLUS still dealing with my own grief and guilt of my daughters death. AND NOT ONCE DID I THINK OF CHEATING or finding a man to “talk” to, finding a man who could make me feel less stressed and more wanted. hell, i didnt even think of finding a sugar daddy with lots of money.

but i will be damed if i am the victim….. i am a survivor. my exhusband is the victim. poor little thing. bad wife, bad kids, bad job, bad bills, bad life…. and the way he deals with all of it, is drinking and cheating. i would have helped him out, i would have stayed with him forever…..except for his sticking his dick into some strange pussy, then letting that pussy call me and tell me off. i dont like to share.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
8 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

Yep. Stupid Boys! I can ABSOLUTELY relate with your story MrsVain.

Nicole S
Nicole S
8 years ago
Reply to  LadyStrange

Here’s the thing someone’s needs have to be reasonable. Honey, I NEED you to completely ignore the children and give all your attention to me. Honey, you NEED to put no effort in to your job so that every spare moment can be spent adoring me. Honey, I NEED you to be ok with me racking up huge amounts of secret debt on our credit cards and then be ok that every penny was spent on my precious hobby. Dear, I NEED you to help me retire early, buy a sailboat and sail around the world and I don’t care that you are terrified of the ocean. Sweetie, I NEED you to behave like a pornstar in the bedroom because loving sex doesn’t get me off. Yeah does that sound reasonable to you? I think the unmet needs line is usually more BS that comes out of cheaters’ mouths. I certainly had unmet needs in my 20 year marriage and I did not cheat and never considered it.

Overcomer
Overcomer
8 years ago
Reply to  Nicole S

This this this!!! And my x’s #1 rule: Your money is our money but my money is mine!!!!
…so when I said we need to budget cause I want to have some fun too he found howorker who told him she felt marriage is about the freedom to do what you want-he married her and she bought him a big fat house and he does whatever he wants now….Twu luv smoopies!

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  Overcomer

And more this!

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

“Give up everything you love, but don’t expect me to because “that’s different”. Kow tow to my family even though they treat you like shit and my mother spread that you were not right in the head all over my family right after your mother died.”

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

I could go on. 🙁

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Thank you. X

I took it from where it came. Ex MIL was a hateful, jealous, spiteful narc. The apple doesn’t fall far. She never liked me and the feeling was mutual. Karma bit her ass when ex’s cousin outed her about what she’d said. She had to admit to it. It was in writing. Even ex, who thought the sun rose in her ass couldn’t defend her that time and tell me it was my imagination.

Chumoedupchik
Chumoedupchik
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Omg Lina! ? that’s horrible. I’m so sorry that’s what they did to you after you lost your mother! Mean heartless fuckers. I don’t care how old you are when you lose your mother – it’s really REALLY hard and sad for most normal people!!! Big hugs to you. They all suck. I hope you know your feelings and response to your mother’s death was ok and normal! I’m so so sorry they made it way worse for you with all their crap.

Nicole S
Nicole S
8 years ago
Reply to  Overcomer

Oh good she married a man-child. I wonder how long before the novelty wears off. Yuck.

Kimberly
Kimberly
8 years ago

following

CAV
CAV
8 years ago
Reply to  Kimberly

You guys know who this guy is, right? He’s a cheater who reads this site for tidbits on how to act, what to say and how to seem empathetic to his victim….er…..wife?…..er……OW?……um….WHOMEVER! He won’t put the vowels in, because he’s really a “good guy”! A Godly Man!!

He’s reading here not to gain insight into CHANGING or what he did wrong. This is called “counter-intelligence” or “counter-surveillance”. Finding out what “The Enemy” is doing and saying and adjusting YOUR plan accordingly.

Every so often, though…something slips in their pea brains. Something slides beneath their thin skins…and they erupt into a magnificent display of venomous word salad, just like “gdmmt” did here.

Mine did this very thing just this past Saturday. He wanted me to do something ridiculously stupid, not just inconvenient for me—in hopes of setting me up for something even more ridiculous. He wanted to see me jump in order to “keep the peace” with him.

When I didn’t do it, he went absolutely off the deep end. Batshit crazy. I am so happy that I had two other people in the car with me, and him on speakerphone so that everyone got a good earful of his CRAZY, delusional, and abusive bullshit.

If I didn’t know better…but then….maybe it is….I would say that this “gdmmt” is my STBX. This tirade was almost word for word what he spewed forth on Saturday. I am so grateful for Chump Nation and some fabulous friends IRL that have supported me in seeing the mindfuckery for what it really is.

But hey, “GDMMT”….if you’re reading this….is that YOU, Mac? Or is it Indy now? Or whatever delusional nickname you’re giving yourself these days?

pianomommy
pianomommy
8 years ago
Reply to  CAV

My ex recently signed off of his latest “hoovering” text to our daughter (22) as “Big D.” We laughed about it at the kitchen table with her friends, who were there when she got it. What did he mean, we all asked? There were a lot of D-words that occurred to us, and the first of them was NOT “Dad.” Dick, Dork, Dickhead, Douchebag, Dumbass, Dippo, Ding-Dong, Dipshit..the list went on.

ChumpyElf
ChumpyElf
8 years ago
Reply to  pianomommy

All I can think of Dudley Dursley. Uh, Harry Potter’s fat, bully cousin.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
8 years ago
Reply to  pianomommy

Can I play? Dingbat, Delusional, Donkey Doo…

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  CAV

I, too, wonder what gdmmt could mean–“Gaga about Diddling My Man Toy?”

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Awesome Tempest!

dptsxmd
dptsxmd
8 years ago
Reply to  cheaterssuck

Gettin’ Dat Man Meat Tonight!

Deloris
Deloris
8 years ago
Reply to  dptsxmd

HAHAHA!!! Brilliant. ?

ChumpyElf
ChumpyElf
8 years ago
Reply to  dptsxmd

LMAO 😀

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  dptsxmd

LOL!

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Tee hee hee!!

Lothos
Lothos
8 years ago

Reading the post before it went through the UBT I can partially understand the guys opinion and if my X had only done the cheating part and nothing more I could accept the original posters response.

HOWEVER (Big However)

Months before my X left the house and took our daughter (refusing to let me see her) she was contacting my family from South America so they would put pressure on me to move out and give her all the assets even though I was the one that brought these assets to the marriage (I have a college degree and a career and she does not even have a high school diploma and brought nothing but dept. to the marriage).

Then since I did not move out she finally moved out and accused me of physically abusing her and our daughter, rapping her and sexually abusing our daughter. There were two trials and both of them I refused to negotiate because it was all lies and I had physical evidence to prove she was lying. Her case was so bad that in the second trial I did not even have to mount a defense and the judge dismissed it. I then contacted the Attorney General’s office and they refused to press charges for perjury because it was too small of a case (that is their words not mine!).

So going with what the Original Posters email, if what he said was true and the person was not happy with the relationship then why go to such extremes as to lie and attempt to put your former spouse in jail so they can get all the assets? Can anyone say narcissism and entitlement please?

In the end I got about 77% of the assets and she got the rest, because even though we live in a 50/50 state, my assets were all prior marriage. I also got my daughter 50/50 despite all of her allegations and to defend against all of that stupidity it cost my side alone 47k in attorney fees which I can’t sure her unless she comes after me one more time (3 seems to be the magic number here). Then I can sue her for defamation of character etc.

Point is, someone who is not happy with a relationship and just “makes a mistake” and cheats if they have any form of empathy at all they would just get a divorce and make it as easy as possible. When they go to the extremes as I have mentioned they never cared to begin with. It was always about them, it took me 10 years to realize that crap and when I started to realize it is when she started having the affair as she knew the gig was almost up.

loridachump
loridachump
8 years ago
Reply to  Lothos

What about the gaslighting, spending money fro family income, using family car, verbal abuse, blame shifting , mental torture , std exposure that goes along withe cheating?

Lothos
Lothos
8 years ago
Reply to  loridachump

Yup those are all true statements to. I do remember the gaslighting, trying to convince me that I was crazy and that I always remembered things incorrectly. Oh and the blame shifting just wow this one got to the point were our daughter started to pee on her laundry basket because my X would blame shift and lie so much that it would cause arguments that then effected my daughter. I am so happy that is all behind me now!

Nord
Nord
8 years ago

“…fucking the lowest scum of the earth…”

So they’re fucking the lowest scum on earth? Or they’re the lowest fucking scum on earth? Grammar is important when spewing bullshit; otherwise you make unintentional funnies.

Chumpedupchik
Chumpedupchik
8 years ago
Reply to  Nord

LOL Nord! Exactly! Hahahahaha! Does this entire crazy ass letter NOT remind anyone of their cheater? The sputtering, spitflying God-awful lying and self-righteous indignation? I can visualize the sweaty, angry, red, shrieking face with spit flying everywhere! It often happened when I refused or rejected all the excuses and load of bullshit he kept throwing my way – and boy oh boy did the mask slip off then and I finally got a good look at the real person in there.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Its both, Nord. Truly a fridge-temperature IQ at play there! But they would spin that as ‘You cannot comprehend my genius!’

Fifi
Fifi
8 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Nord, you rock.

Mehphista
Mehphista
8 years ago
Reply to  Fifi

ROTFLMAO!!!! Bullshit is bullshit. Incorrect grammar is truly a sin….

TheClip
TheClip
8 years ago
Reply to  Mehphista

I am a sinner!

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
8 years ago
Reply to  TheClip

Admission is the first step…. 🙂

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago

oh, look, gdmmt just tried to apply logic to the act of intentionally destroying someone’s life. The truth is I am “part of this situation” but it was not my choice. My HasBeen intentionally chose to do what he did, which was never to mention he had a problem with our relationship. So tell me gdmmt, how was I supposed to fix that? Am I surprised he strayed, damn straight I am, he was the picture of happiness in life, never mentioned an issue with me or our life together. The truth is most cheaters are flat out cowards, most of whom can’t step up to the plate and have a simple “this isn’t working for me” conversation about the most important relationship in life. Oh, and gdmmt, when I confronted the HasBeen there were no feelings, no tears, no signs of being upset, no sadness, no joy, nothing just the threats of prosecution for going through his things. Explain that shit away logically.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

I never had a clue, because he HID IT FROM ME. He didn’t want me to find out. They aren’t unhappy, they want it all. His cheating had NOTHING to do with me, and NOTHING to do with our relationship. He was a self-centered jerk that didn’t have a problem using people.

violet
violet
8 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Exactly.

Chumpedupchik
Chumpedupchik
8 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Hit nail on head Einstein! Precisely! They don’t WANT out, they want it all

conniered
conniered
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

I hear you and second that emotion. No doubt they are absolute cowards. I never had a clue either. What the world.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

AllOutofKibble – I absolutely agree!

Truth is, I was the one that was unhappy in our marriage and I tried to talk to him several times over the years about my unhappiness like a responsible person should. He either rolled his eyes, said I was trying to create drama in our relationship, and/or told me how happy was in our relationship. He said whatever he had to say to get out of the conversation and then did nothing to help make the situation better. At one point I even told him I wanted a divorce – he initially said ok then came back and told me how much he loved me, wanted to be with me, loved the life we had built and promised to change how he treated me. ALL LIES. He could have easily walked away when I asked him for the divorce and no one would have known about his cheating. But he didn’t want that option – he wanted it ALL.

The fact is, gdmmt, I did not know he was unhappy and certainly didn’t know he was cheating. Had I been aware of this information, I would have worked with him on whatever was causing his unhappiness and if it still wasn’t working, then we would have parted amicably. He didn’t give us that opportunity though.

CL’s tag line is spot on – Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life. That’s exactly what I’ve done (left the cheater) and am doing (gaining a life of my own).

Lots of love to CN!

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

I knew X-hole was unhappy….with his WORK…nothing could be done about that because he made great money doing it. I’m SORRY you don’t get to just quit your job and do something FUN for a living…you should have thought about that before you made a bunch of babies and got divorced cause people wouldn’t tolerate your cheating. I DID go to work with him and bust my ass helping him because I knew he worked hard and I cared. How did he show his appreciation? He sat there on FB messenger with the troll while I was hoofing 40 lb. boxes of tile up a flight of stairs. Stupid dick.

For months I told him over and over that we needed alone time, date night once or twice a month….nope…he avoided. I pleaded with him to go to counseling as he had offered and promised…nope…he avoided.

I knew we had issues but since he made ZERO effort to communicate details….I was supposed to use my super powers and know that he was looking for a way out? “It’s because of your unhappiness!” Well asshole…maybe if you could stop sniffing out strange and talk to me or pay attention to me besides wanting sexual favors before passing out… “You don’t support my passions” Ummm…I tried…I could no longer pretend that you spending 70% of your earnings on bodybuilding, tans, supplements and gym equipment was okay….. dude you have FIVE kids. Time to grow the fuck up.

THAT is the real truth of it…I could no longer pretend his disgusting selfishness wasn’t out of control. Her…she doesn’t give a shit what he pays or doesn’t because it doesn’t affect her. Not yet anyway.

The only things he EVER gave 100% were his addictions. First it was alcohol and then bodybuilding again and of course his cheating troll.

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
8 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

Exactly. Mine told me about 2 years before i discovered his serial cheating, that some of his friends were talking about what their best time in their lives was. Some said college or high school or 20’s, and he said that now was his favorite time and that he was happy having a family and a home, etc. Why in holy hell would you then say, after being caught, that you’ve been unhappy for so long?
Never mind, I know the answer.

movin_on
movin_on
8 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

BBC: Identical story here.

lorelei
lorelei
8 years ago
Reply to  movin_on

Same story. Avoidance absence bullying and cheating. 25 years. Then it was all my fault, I was so withdrawn. Fuck him and the hos he rode in on.

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  lorelei

Same for me, he ignored me when I brought up things or changed the subject or told me I had to wait for what I needed from him. I really was unhappy for along time, the cheating was the icing on the cake for me. The fuck it, I give up for me.

Patsy
Patsy
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Mine would say ‘you didn’t say it in the right way/you didn’t use the right words’.
{Shakes head} the person I am now? Would just walk.
This stuff changes us! Looking back I have no idea WHY I tolerated the disrespect and disregard.

chump-tastic
chump-tastic
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

I’m also in this boat and as usual, AllOutofKibble, you’re right on the money. That commenter assumes that there is some kind of a dialog going on about dissatisfaction. What the heck? For many of us, we had what we thought was a flawed but loving human being that we were going through life with. Like any long relationship, we took the bad with the good and made a lot of excuses for their behavior. Their intermittent sweet nothings and declarations of “Sigh. I’m so happy. I love our life.” may have kept us a *little* bit in the dark about their supposed years of misery. So yeah. If they had this horrible burden of “waiting” for things to change, they could have…uh…actually mentioned that things were supposed to be changing. Instead of lying through their teeth to the exact opposite effect. Lulling your spouse into false security so you can steal from them for years and prepare the comfy way for your escape is not exactly a quick one-time mistake.

startofsomethingood
startofsomethingood
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

Yep! Exactly!!!

happily never after
happily never after
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

This >>>>>>> times 10!

Chumpedupchik
Chumpedupchik
8 years ago

Me three

startofsomethingood
startofsomethingood
8 years ago

I promised I wouldn’t get sucked into a reply again out of anger but…gdmmt, are you for real?! First off I was always asking my ex if he was happy, fulfilled with our life. I was always checking to make sure he was satisfied. And then when we had our daughter, that HE begged to have, she was born with special needs.

Fast forward 5 years. It’s busy, exhausting but I’m still trying to meet his fu**ing needs. Out of the blue he announces he’s leaving and has never looked back. I lost everything and was hospitalized. I nearly lost my life. So I’m sorry (NOT) if I sound bitter and have no regard for cheaters. I do not. Experts will tell you it is the worst thing a “human” can do to another. It can top the list over death of a child and rape.

I’m still in court fighting for child support so my daughter will have some sort of a life when she out lives me. But yes, gdmmt, I really did figure out the problem after I’d been told for the last 2 years that he left because of me and my disabled daughter. He’s got shitty character.

How convenient.

Chumpette
Chumpette
8 years ago

great moniker, startofsomethingood…great reply….and your daughter has a great mom.

startofsomethingood
startofsomethingood
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

Chumpette, thank you for your comment. I get attacked about my ability to parent more than anything else. Your comment means more to me than you could possibly imagine!

Dani
Dani
8 years ago

Why are excuses only “relevant” in a cheater’s mind? Nowhere else in life are excuses acceptable when you do something wrong.

Rob a bank? Well, my parents were poor and uneducated and I don’t know any better. Nope. Sorry. You still robbed a bank.

Beat your spouse? I got spankings as a child and didn’t know this wasn’t an acceptable way to communicate. Um…you still beat your spouse.

Kill an innocent motorist because you went on a 12-hour bender and got behind the wheel of a car? Alcoholism runs in my family. I can’t help myself. Yes. Yes, you can. You can choose not to go to a bar. You can choose not to drive while intoxicated. You still killed an innocent person.

I am so sick of this sense of entitlement people have nowadays. You can’t steam-roll every person who happens to be standing in the road on your way to perfect happiness. You can’t do it. Life is not promise of perfect happiness. No one owes you that. You can rob banks or beat people or risk others’ lives. You just can’t do it.

You also can’t make someone think they have a loving, devoted partner and keep them blind while you are out getting your rocks off with someone else. Promises mean something…to some people, at least…and there is no excuse for one spouse to unilaterally decide that they don’t one day, especially when the other spouse is never informed of the fact that the promises previously made hold no value any longer.

If you’re not happy/satisfied/valued in your current relationship, sit down and have an honest conversation with your spouse. End it the right way. Divorce hurts on its own. It makes no sense to add to that pain with an affair.

Kelly
Kelly
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

Absolutely wonderful comments, Dani!

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

I am so sick of this sense of entitlement people have nowadays. You can’t steam-roll every person who happens to be standing in the road on your way to perfect happiness. You can’t do it. Life is not promise of perfect happiness. No one owes you that. You can rob banks or beat people or risk others’ lives. You just can’t do it.

****

Amen!!!

Chumpette
Chumpette
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

excuses “work” in a cheater’s “mind” because they are thinking with other body parts. obviously not the brain.

TiredChump
TiredChump
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

terrific summary

lostntx
lostntx
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

awesome reply
you hit the bulls eye with this one

Calla2015
Calla2015
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

love this comment

Calla2015
Calla2015
8 years ago

This sounds like the last 5 conversations I’ve had with my stbxh. But gdmmt, I wanted to divorce before I even knew he was cheating. And he said he didn’t want to. I gave him an out 3 times, and he turned me down to cheat behind my back. He could have left and gotten half of everything, yet he chose to stay and stray. So where’s the logic there? Oh, yeah, he’s just an asshole.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Calla2015

I gave my STBX a million chances.. all he did was keep seeing the slut and lying to me.. fence sitting, cake eating.. gaslighting.. taking no responsibility. Finally, I put a stop to it.

But it’s my fault somehow?

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

My story too, exactly the same.

Dani
Dani
8 years ago
Reply to  Calla2015

He stayed for the same reason that my ex stayed while he strayed: He was having his cake and eating it, too.

I was home, tending to the bills, doing the laundry, raising the babies, providing for all his spiritual (ha), emotional, physical, and sexual needs. He took jobs out of town so that he could carry on his doube-, triple-, quadruple-lives with as much secrecy and anonymity as possible. When I told him I wanted a divorce, he begged me to change my mind. He said he wanted me. I literally laughed in his face and said, “Yes, I know you do. I know that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Why wouldn’t you want me? You have the perfect life!”

I walked away, hard as it was with three children. I filed for divorce, pro se, and just sued him for unpaid child support – and won – this week. Asshole.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

Dani–you’re mighty! Congrats on winning the back child support.

And, raising my hand–I brought up ending the marriage at least once a year for the past decade. He didn’t want to be single, he wanted me in his corner, tending home & hearth, while he acted single outside the house.

Dani
Dani
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

When asked what he wanted, in the aftermath of the final D-Day (there were several – see my blog), his response was, “I don’t want to be single.” I just stood there staring at him. Finally, I said, “You don’t want to be single? Okay. Nothing in that statement said anything about wanting me and me alone.”

He also told me in a very matter-of-fact tone that he cheated because, “I wanted sex. Sex is my drug. You were giving it to me, but I wanted more.” Seriously. It doesn’t get more audacious than that, does it?

I won, but he’ll file a motion to reduce it and, if that doesn’t get approved, he’ll file a motion to change the visitation schedule. He’s already hinted at that, even though our current schedule is a court order. I’ll spend the next 14 years (until our youngest is 18) fighting legal battles with him, I’m sure. I’m prepared, though. I’d go to the ends of the Earth for my children. He wouldn’t even go to the end of the hall to kiss them goodnight.

lostntx
lostntx
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

Great job on walking away. I know that was really hard with three kids. And congratulations on winning your court case! The 2nd paragraph of reply reminds me of an article I read on here about how chumps are the parents for the chump and their kids too! All the while they are just needy immature people. Don’t want adult responsibilities. And then blame us because they aren’t emotionally fulfilled.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  lostntx

The 2nd paragraph of reply reminds me of an article I read on here about how chumps are the parents for the chump and their kids too! All the while they are just needy immature people. Don’t want adult responsibilities. And then blame us because they aren’t emotionally fulfilled
****

That is it in a nutshell.

TiredChump
TiredChump
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

I used to tell people I had five kids – the three kids, the dog and my husband(turned cheater).
I thought I was joking.
His latest comment was “You have the help me.” because apparently he just can’t tear himself away from his affair partner.
For real?

Lizzy
Lizzy
8 years ago
Reply to  Dani

I told my xh that we should go to marriage counseling at least twice before d-day. I didn’t know what was going on but I knew something was wrong. He flat out refused to go – did not hesitate for one second.

unencumbered
unencumbered
8 years ago
Reply to  Lizzy

Same here. I knew something was wrong in our relationship but couldn’t put my finger on it. At that time, I don’t think he was having any affairs with real people (yet) – rather he escaped by disengaging, always being on his phone and on his PC, always having very important things to do other than be partners with me. I suggested counseling several times but he would always dismiss it and say “I choose to be happy – look at all the wonderful things about our life” whenever I voiced a concern. My problem is that I let it go…I didn’t push it. I assumed if he was happy, I should just be happy too. Now I know better – listen to my gut. If it doesn’t feel right for me, my needs matter too. We both have a right to be happy and he, in hindsight, didn’t care if I wasn’t happy and had no desire to address what I voiced as concerns. Live and learn.

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  unencumbered

I suspected him and his coworker in 2012 and I was really upset at the time about it, he got pissed off at me, told me I was crazy and nothing was going on, they were “just friends”, then continued on for 2 more years with her while I was telling him I was lonely, please come home, find a job close to home, I’ll help you look, I want a husband to come home to everyday after work. So why would he ignore me, leave me depressed and the only thing he’d say is I’m doing it for us? For the money, for our retirement. If he was unhappy, I gave him lots of opportunities to tell me when I was pleading for him to come home, why not tell me then? He to just wanted it ALL and now we’ve both lost it ALL. The end.

NCstevie
NCstevie
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

X-hole actually said, the day after he left “everybody loses” and yet….even knowing this didn’t stop him.

They just have a reality glitch. It’s scarey.

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  unencumbered

That pretty much sums the entire 8 years for me, I never felt like I mattered. Everything and everyone else always came first. I told him that not too long ago…”I never felt like I mattered” he said “of course you mattered” and I said “evidently not enough”. Asshole.

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

And yes…absolute congratulations to you Dani on winning and walking. That is huge with 3 kids. You are mighty!!

dptsxmd
dptsxmd
8 years ago
Reply to  unencumbered

YES! The physical intimacy issue my stbx cited was something that *I* and ONLY I had ever tried to engage with him about. Not only did he never express his own concern or dissatisfaction, on the contrary: he was always sweetly reassuring. It wasn’t until after he left me that I realized, Hey, because I’d been the one to bring it up he KNEW that I wasn’t totally satisfied with our sex life. And he took *zero* initiative to address it or express any interest whatsoever in meeting my needs (which were pretty tame and easy to meet, IMO).

Delving deeper, I do believe that his (presumed) awareness of my concerns were actually at the root of some of his inability to deal with it. Threat to manhood or self-esteem or sense of adequacy or whatever. But to throw something in my face that I had tried to talk to him about plenty of times as a reason for his not loving me anymore and leaving me for OW, without ever voicing his own concerns or speaking up when I gave him an easy opportunity to talk about it, that’s so f***ing low.

But to your point—yes, live and learn. I should have been more assertive, and I should have involved a therapist (or tried to, anyway) a long time ago. I should have owned my needs. Having to walk on eggshells for fear of being sneered at and dismissed does a good job of inhibiting those things.

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  dptsxmd

I had the exact same experience of having something thrown in my face that he’d refused to discuss or address in any way as he packed to go. It is f***ing low and despicable.

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
8 years ago

CL, tell it! You are the general and spokesperson for the Chump Army. gdmmt speakers for cheaters like my STBX. I am sick of hearing STBX’s rants and sob stories.

“I’m human.” [That’s debatable and, more importantly, no excuse for repeated horrendous actions].

“I made mistakes.” [No, you repeatedly made decisions].

“You need to own your part (in the demise of our marriage).” [I don’t remember putting a gun to your head to withdraw cash from our accounts to pay prostitutes. I don’t remember forcing you, petitioner, to court, to wrest our kids from me on false allegations. I don’t remember because none of these things happened. And no, I don’t owe you my life. I have accomplished some worthwhile things before I met you and without your help. And no I will not kiss the ring, Your Entitled (non)Majesty.]

“I deserve these vacations from working only a few weeks per year (while you and children try to survive without support, which is in arrears and is being significantly reduced). Be optimistic! I’m sure you’ll find a good job soon (to support my whoring/vacationing habits).” [Fat chance. Any earnings will be used to pay for food and rent. Any extra, if ever earned, will go into the kids’ college savings fund, that you, in essence, emptied by paying prostitutes and taking me to court to fight for the right to see our kids.]

When I asked STBX why he didn’t divorce me before he started having sex with other people, he told me, ‘Divorce takes too long. You know how long it takes.’ (He had gotten divorced once before. No agency.) No desire to exert any self-control or at least file for divorce before embarking on other ‘adventures.’ No ownership by him. That’s life with the personality-disordered.

The cheaters discussed here on CL hardly seem the type to regret anything other than (1) getting caught; (2) losing their supply of kibble; or (3) having to throw their families not much more than a rotten carrot or tuft of grass in support. And even with that, these cheaters are complaining about how much they SACRIFICE and SUFFER for their chumps and families.

On to bigger and better things today. It’s time for me to redirect my attention from cheater in the gutter and start making good things happen for the rest of the world.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
8 years ago
Reply to  RockStarWife

“And no I will not kiss the ring”

This is going on my list of chump quotes, right along with “don’t expect chicken milk” and “unplug that blender.”

I so admire your resilience RSW! I hope things will be looking up and that your new lawyers will kick ass on your behalf!

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumptitude

Thanks, Chumpitude!

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago

Here’s the thing. The Cheaters? They are not worried about the Chump’s feelings. If they were, they wouldn’t cheat. They would think, “You know, maybe I should talk to my partner about being unhappy, instead of lining up my junk with some strange.” SOMEONE has to put the Chump’s feelings first, and since the Cheater is busy protecting their image, their assets, their cake, their kibbles, the Chump has to step up and protect themselves.

I’m sorry that the Chump’s audacity to be hurt by their partner’s betrayal is annoying to “gdmmt’s” delicate sensibilities. I’m sorry that the Chump’s audacity not to consider the Cheater’s guilt over their own poor choices grates on “gdmmt’s” nerves. But GUESS WHAT, gdmmt, when your partner cheats, the problems in your relationship boil down to the fact that your partner has limited impulse control, empathy or consideration for your feelings. And those issues are very difficult to overcome.

You might consider why someone who is clearly so unsympathetic with the emotional turmoil of chumps would want to spend time on a blog devoted to helping them, gdmmt, …. also why you’re so scared of vowels.

kar marie
kar marie
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

Excellent pucksmuse! Couldn’t have said better myself. Divorce before you go off with your immature fuck buddy. Be honest. Hurt me if you must but be honest about it. Bastards and bitches all of them!

MrsVain
MrsVain
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

LOVE that last paragraph!!!

Chumpette
Chumpette
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

gdmmt may be scared of vowels because they are the rest of the narrative. aka, truth.

Survivor
Survivor
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

The lack of vowels is a form of trickle truth. We’ll have to figure out the big picture all on our own.

Crimson Comet
Crimson Comet
8 years ago

Thank you Chump Lady. Perfect response. I’m so sick of these kinds of justifications that cheaters and their apologists offer. I’m not backing down from my belief that my malignant narcissistic ex was 100 percent guilty for the demise of our marriage. I had to pull the plug, but it was already dead, thanks to him. What he did, over at least a dozen years with seven women that I know of (not counting the random prostitutes), while spending vital family resources and the kids’ college savings, is NOT excusable by any stretch of the imagination. He wasn’t a picnic to be married to, but I never even thought about cheating. I did what we’re supposed to do, and sacrificed and struggled on. I did not nag or argue, as that would get my head bit off. I did the best I could to be the best wife and mother I could. I tried to reconcile for about 3.5 months, and caught an std from him during that time. He spent the reconciliation time three-timing. OW thinks she got a great deal when I bailed out, but she wasn’t the one-twu-luv-schmoopie she thinks she was, because there was a third woman in the picture. But somehow, I am supposed to accept fault in this? Nope. Sorry. Nope.

Lost2015
Lost2015
8 years ago

Umm….Sociopath on Line 2.

This guy needs to understand that an affair is not always a symptom of relationship problems, but instead is often the primary cause. If it’s a symptom of anything, it’s a symptom of personal issues contained within the cheating spouse. Anyway, you can’t love 2 people in that way with the same energy at the same time. If you’re going to pour your emotions and energy into an affair, then you are necessarily taking energy and emotion from your marriage. Thus your marriage begins to look worse and worse over time, and then when it bottoms out, the cheater can justify his/her affair by saying “see, it sucked anyway.”

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

Agree, Lost. These trolls don’t pay any attention to the research:

The only available source is from Shirley Glass, who found that most cheaters did NOT report marital problems, and very few actually contemplated leaving their marriages.

Even if you admit some marriages have problems, it’s usually both partners who perceive problems, yet only 1 cheats. That’s an issue of character.

And marriages with problems are like fencing duels, to which cheaters bring a hand grenade. Against the rules, it blows a whole through the middle of the chump (metaphorically) + any children, and game is over. No winners. Done. Over.

As to cheaters having feelings–yes, FOR THEMSELVES. They are sad they got caught, and anxious that they will suffer decreased reputation and standard of living. They hurt, I tell you! Empathy for the chump’s pain? Not so much. Children suffering? Collateral damage for their orgasmic needs. Selfish little odious lumps of carbon-based material.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yes yes yes, Tempest!

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

Bingo. You are doing GREAT Lost!!!

dptsxmd
dptsxmd
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Yeah, or more specifically, it’s a symptom of a *personal* problem (i.e., the cheater’s problem), a complete inability to face issues, have adult conversations about them, and identify and worth through feelings with some critical self-reflection.

Emily
Emily
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

YUP!!!! Exactly! So you made a “mistake” … ok I will accept that. What I won’t accept is you not acting like a fucking adult and owning your “mistake”. Taking positive steps to rectify your mistake. You make a mistake at work and your boss says don’t do it again and you don’t do it again and then work extra hard to make him realize it was a one time screw up and you really are a worthwhile employee to keep around. I will accept that “mistake”. Instead all these bullshit justifications how I should have known there were issues… without you actually saying them out loud. My mind reading powers were all tuckered out by the years of infertility treatments I was undergoing while you were making your “mistake”. But yes, while you were holding my hand during the daily shots I was giving myself, I should have looked into your eyes and seen how unhappy YOU were. My bad…

Your “mistake” cost a fucking fortune. Your “mistake” made a little 5 year old feel like a ping pong ball being tossed back and forth between houses. Your ” mistake” you are currently still fucking … BUT your “mistake” also gave me freedom from your mindfuckery… so thanks for that 🙂

The justifications these assholes come up with to be able to live with themselves would be hysterical if it was ruining lives in the process!

julieoakley
julieoakley
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

you can’t love 2 people in that way with the same energy at the same time. If you’re going to pour your emotions and energy into an affair, then you are necessarily taking energy and emotion from your marriage. Thus your marriage begins to look worse and worse over time, and then when it bottoms out, the cheater can justify his/her affair by saying “see, it sucked anyway.”

So right

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  julieoakley

Exactly. Post-hoc rationalizing.

Crimson Comet
Crimson Comet
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

YES! This! Lost2015, this is so true! I poured my all into the marriage. I ate a steady stream of “I’m not good enough ” that I basically withered away. Absolutely, he was taking all resources of time and money and spending them on others. For at least a dozen years. The grass truly is greener where you water it. I’m firmly comfortable with the fact that he owns the demise, and total destruction of the marriage. I did the best I could with what I had, and when I was ready, I got out. I hold zero blame or guilt in the destruction of the marriage. I resent the gdmmit types that seek to spread around the blame.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago

This column is actually pretty well-timed for me as I just found out that an acquaintance of ours has cheated on his wife with the wife of another friend. Now, this cheating friend, Pete, is a an amiable, funny guy. In fact, I like Pete better than I like his wife, who is a cold, judgmental, uptight twit. BUT that doesn’t make Pete’s cheating OK.

Just because I can see why Pete would be unhappy, doesn’t mean I support his choices. He had a lot of options besides cheating. He could have told his wife he was unhappy, asked her to go to counseling, or asked for a separation/divorce.

I feel differently about him than I did before I found out he cheated. I don’t trust him as much. I don’t see him as having the integrity I thought he had. I don’t feel as comfortable spending time around him. Is this unfair? Maybe. But he made bad choices and bad choices have consequences.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

His wife is a ‘twit’ huh? Then why did he marry her? I’m betting she’s not as bad as he makes her out to be. All is made null and void by his fuckwittery.

My personal policy is this: If I find out someone is a cheater, I immediately cull them and forever out of my life – to the point where I won’t even interact in the same social situation as them, in company of others. I don’t give a fuck as to your reasoning – you have shown me, in spades, you are a lying prick.
If people in the same social circle condone their actions – they get culled too. I refuse to interact with a cheater or a cheater apologist in any form, except to call them out on their shit if they try to push their crap in my presence (which is rare, probably most often on here in fact) – because mostly I refuse to interact with people like that.
I also don’t lie and pussyfoot around – if someone tries to do that, I set them straight. An example was this: At my old job – the director of department cheated on his wife for a skank half his age – of who had very weird ideas about the world, parenting and such. People would talk about these two, of which I would say “I don’t want to hear about cheaters.” If it means I lose friends over it – its no loss either. I’d rather have 3 friends in the world who are decent, upstanding human beings with morals and a conscience, than 300 which are morally bankrupt and can’t even hold to ethical behaviour in life.

Maree
Maree
8 years ago
Reply to  Lania

You can count on me as one of those friends Lania. 🙂

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  Maree

Damn straight I can, Maree! We Aussies must stick together. 🙂

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

CL brings up a great point here. Sometimes chumps might seem “uptight” and “rigid” and perhaps some are, after all, none of us are perfect. My STBX would say I was uptight, too anxious, too worried about money, and depressed.

But what sausage never seemed to put together is.. my anxiety and fear was rooted in his erratic behavior. Pretty much all of our marriage. Sometimes it was job insecurity, sometimes it was wild spending, sometimes it was drinking too much, or gambling, or hiding spending/money issues.. and of course, the final straw.. schmoopie (women can sense these things) whatever it was.. he CREATED anxiety in me, which made me more uptight, and more depressed. Not saying I don’t have personality traits that aren’t pleasant, god knows I do.. but his activities greatly increased these. Making me look like the uptight wench.. when really, I was just trying to be the grown up. Pay bills, take care of kids, budget, plan ahead.. you know.. all that boring “adult” stuff.

My STBX seems like an amiable guy too, and he is.. but he’s also not a grownup.. cue the cheating. Future schmoopies will figure this out.. the smart ones, and the dumb ones.. like the original schmoopie.. will just drag him down-they’ll spend his money, promote his bad habits (original schmoopie has him smoking again), and not expect much from him.. and they won’t be there for the long haul. But hey, not my circus, not my monkey. There are guys who will appreciate a stand up, loyal, practical and smart woman who gets shit done. I just spent too many years with someone who made my good qualities into BAD qualities.

MrsVain
MrsVain
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

add me to this group too. i was so stressed and busy keeping up afloat, i did not notice how “boring” i got….. well that plus i was grieving and forgive me but it just was not fun going to the bar every weekend when Diablo refused to dance, would not play pool, always ended up skunk drunk and belligerent to anyone we were socializing with. I also have zero desire to socialize with drug dealers, woman who benevolently give up their children so they can stay up late partying and fucking strangers (i dont even know what to call woman like that), and losers who sit there whining about how sad their lives are without doing a damn thing to make it better.

i will never as fun and easy going as his ghetto rat. I am actually a little uptight and irrational, i never have given a flying fuck what other people think of me. i am nice and polite to just about everyone including the dealers and crackwhores but that doesnt mean i want to hang out with them, and i damn sure dont want them around my kids. And just because i am polite does not mean that i agree with their life choices nor am i worried about what they might think of me. i dont ask people for shit so i owe nobody nothing. Diablo was always so worried about what people thing, what his cousins would think, what his boss would think…..me, i live my life the best way i can, i make good choices, i do not lie, i do not steal, i pay for my own shit…..i dont have to worry about what anyone thinks.

now that the stress and pain he was putting me thou is gone, the more fun and easy going MrsVain is coming back. i will still stress over keeping on top of things but i can loosen up and laugh every now and then. i can say the hell with the dishes tonight i am going to bed early or i am watching this movie with the boys….. i still dont go to the bar but i was over that 10 years ago.

of course in the cheaters mind. it is NEVER their fault. Diablo would complain that i never wanted to do anything (which was true, i was mourning) but whenever i suggested anything, going to the park, going fishing, going to the mountains he would always find something to turn it down. when he said i never wanted to do anything he meant i never wanted to go to the bar and get drunk anymore, i never wanted to go to the dealer down the street and act like he was a swell guy just because he has alcohol on sunday, i never wanted to go to his crack head sisters who literally sell their bodies for drugs and let the state take their babies while crying how much the love those babies and would do anything for them.

fuck them all… bunch of leeches. suck all our goodness because they have none

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Yes, mine was convinced he was always trying to de-stress me. Well, if I wasn’t criticized so much, and had help with parenting (instead of his making the job harder), perhaps I would have been my usual happy self. I am now.

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Her: You are holding the baby wrong.
Me: I watched her birth, if her head didn’t fall off then, it’s not going to fall off in my hands.

Her: You are letting her shimmy up the basketball pole, what if she falls.
Me: One of three things will happen, she’ll try again and get better, she won’t ever try again, or she may not even fall in the first place. Two out of three of those scenarios has her gaining confidence, let’s see how this plays out.

Her: Do you think she should move in with you and go to high school in your school district. You know how nervous she is.
Me: How will she ever learn to relax and become confident if you are constantly getting in the way of her become strong and confident? This is something she says she wants, why don’t we let her pursue her goals. Besides, I don’t trust you. If she’s nervous, she needs to tell me about it.

The first two were when we were married. Apparently my style of “free range” parenting didn’t suit her. She had to know who I was. After all, the first five times I few in a plane, I parachuted to the ground. Who did she think I was?

The last was 8 years after we divorced. Now that DD lives with me most of the time, perhaps the reason she was so “nervous” was due to her mother’s example.

Or maybe mother was just transferring her fears onto our child.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Those of us who tried to get the dads to ANYthing connected to our children when young, salute you Uniballer, for being an involved father.

Mehphista
Mehphista
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Or your kid was picking up the narkles. Apropos of Dat’s comment above, both my kid and my cat were considerably more chilled out after I kicked Mr Fab out of the house. Not happy, but, equally, not constantly swivelling their heads to see where the next two by four was coming from. It’s the walking in eggshells.

Honestly, we waited on the guy hand and foot. Never knew if we’d get a thank you for bringing him dinner, or if we’s get told off for bringing him the wrong spoon. I shit you not, we had a ‘wrong spoon’. I kept it when I left. The spoon is a lot happier, too.

Regina
Regina
8 years ago
Reply to  Mehphista

LOL-a “wrong spoon?” Who knew such a thing existed? It is so absurd when you hear it from another Chump, until you realize you lived through your own distortions of disorder. Thank God you got that spoon to safety.

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago
Reply to  Mehphista

Can’t wait to see how my cat reacts when the HasBeen leaves. Bet he chills out a lot with out the smell of the ho’s cat on things in the house.

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

newchumpatl “my anxiety and fear was rooted in his erratic behavior”
OMG YES!!!!! A thousand times YES!!!!!!
Me too!!!!
My oldest friends and family all say how nice it is to have me back!!!!

All the games, gas lighting and lies made me walk on eggshells and I had no idea how much that tension and stress showed to the world. My neighbors all think I’m uptight and irrational and the HasBeen has totally played them into that for his reputation management. Luckily I don’t have to care, they’re not my support system but I see it happening.

DefyingGravity
DefyingGravity
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

My XH gaslighted me into believing that I had a serious, medical-grade anxiety and depression problem. Told me I needed help, found me a doctor, got me into years of therapy and medication. This obviously helped him with his addiction to prostitutes, because every time I thought something was “off” or questioned him about something, he reminded me that I was emotionally unstable and that I needed to call my doctor.

I realized after I moved out that my “serious mental problem” was largely related to dealing with him. A year later, I’m off medication for the first time in ten years and doing great.

Point being, living with the emotional abuse of a true narcissistic cheater changes you. I’ll never forgive that asshole for making me think I had a serious emotional problem just to facilitate his cheating.

pianomommy
pianomommy
8 years ago
Reply to  DefyingGravity

newchumpatl….you said it and so well! THIS!!!! My story, too! Drinking, spending, increasingly doing his own thing, disconnected from our three kids (downright hostile to our daughter when she entered her teens – must’ve been competition – can’t have two adolescents in the house, you know!) and me doing all of the heavy lifting for over half of our twenty-year marriage. And having the gall to leave like a pre-schooler who knocks down the tower of blocks (our marriage and family) because he’s not getting his way (HIS needs aren’t being met).

Kelly
Kelly
8 years ago
Reply to  DefyingGravity

Awesome!

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
8 years ago
Reply to  DefyingGravity

Jedi hugs DefyingGravity and a big salute for finding so much of yourself. After my ex left even the freaky cat became sane, the beat down is not always obvious when we are in it. For the record, I am not comparing you to a cat! Rock on!

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I’ve spent time around his wife without Pete. she’s still a twit. BUT again, that doesn’t give Pete a free pass to do what he did. His wife’s unpleasant personality is a separate issue from his entitlement and the permission he gave himself to cheat. He definitely gets the suck trophy.

Pearshaped
Pearshaped
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

I wonder if she became a ‘twit’ before or after he married her.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  Pearshaped

According to people who knew who before, she’s been like this since she was a kid. But again, Pete went into the marriage knowing this.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

That’s really the point. It’s not like she was someone else and changed. She might be a twit.. but she was always a twit. She didn’t start whoring around, drinking excessively or beating him up or anything. She was the same twit she always was and he must have loved her for some reason. No one held a gun to his head to marry or.. or to stay married to her.

Bravo to you Pucks for distancing from Pete. Some people are toxic. It’s better not to keep them too close.

lorelei
lorelei
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Good choice here PucksMuse! Choosing friends you can feel comfortable with based on character. This is a big part of creating better boundaries — getting our picker to work like this. Lovable sparkly Pete is also cheater entitled Pete. Twerpy grey xwife was also honorable xwife. No contest.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Yep. And it will make things socially awkward within my friend group, but I just can’t imagine looking at Pete the same way. Or giving him the sense that I condone his actions.

lorelei
lorelei
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

It has taken me 5 years to unearth my pre-NP optimistic open extrovert personality (mostly) after 25 married years in beat-down withdrawn shelter-dog avoidance teatotalling no-music etc mode. Not that that comment made me defensive or anything. Why would it.

Lizzy
Lizzy
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I agree with CL – being Pete’s wife probably wasn’t easy. I know I wasn’t myself when around XH – – probably acted very uptight mainly because I was always walking on eggshells around him. Give Pete’s wife a chance, she could probably really use your advice and support right about now.

Chumpedupchik
Chumpedupchik
8 years ago
Reply to  Lizzy

Pete’s wife was maybe angry and pissy and bitchy BECAUSE he was cheating! Whether she knew it or not, she probably knew things weren’t ok. If Pete was anything like MY fuckity fuckwit lying cheater, he made certain other people saw her as the grumpy/bitchy one and made even MORE certain they saw him as the poor, oh-so-trying sad sausage. It’s horrible. I see in retrospect how my cheater played me in front of others – pushing all the right buttons, nudging and pinching and shoving until I’d finally lash out to defend myself in response to the abuse and horrific gaslighting. The only part others saw was what appeared to be my bitchy responses or “behaviors” (which was more than normal in those situations)….but what they missed were all the abusive moments that led up to the one they actually witnessed (and that wasn’t random, it was planned). Cheaty McFuckwit had that game down pat. It’s no mystery why people almost always assume I’m the “bad guy” here. GAH!!!!!! They weren’t seeing the whole picture

PschopathfreeYaYforMe!
PschopathfreeYaYforMe!
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpedupchik

Chumpedupedchick – your ex sounds like a psychopath. They are very calculating and try to elicit these bad “make you crazy” situations for others to see. Your “downfall in behavior” ( which he perfectly orchestrated ) is then used against you and and the new his new “target, is made to seem like his savior from you. I hate psychopath cheaters. They are pure evil and masters at deception and manipulation.

NCstevie
NCstevie
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpedupchik

Oooooooh how familiar ^^^^THIS^^^^ sounds!! Asshole was always telling me how “negative” I was and later this was his “go to” excuse for everything including cheating…..she was SO negative. It’s hard to spackle over the obvious after YEARS of covering and enabling, my calling him out on his obvious fuck-ups made him feel “bad”. So sorry asshole, your repeated selfishness and poor decisions don’t just affect you…it affected me and the kids and I just couldn’t pretend he was “perfect”. That’s his mother’s job, coincidentally that’s where he is living…in Mommy’s basement.

I loved him more than I loved myself but truthfully life with him sucked because he sucked at everything that didn’t benefit him or give him instant gratification. You know….all the grown up stuff… responsibilities.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
8 years ago
Reply to  NCstevie

Loving somebody more than your love yourself might be a problem. You’re a person. You deserve just as much respect from yourself as you afford others, most likely.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  Lizzy

Just want to clarify, I do feel badly for the wife. I just don’t ever seeing myself developing a friendship with her. Our personalities are just too different. I do see myself dialing any friendship with Pete waaaay back. Because of the suck trophy.

Anita
Anita
8 years ago

All adults are responsible for their own “needs” as far as I’m concerned. And looking back to college days, I don’t recall “banging strange ass” being on the hierarchy. Or being a liar, or a cheater. Ninety nine percent of the time, the chump is the one contributing to the relationship, not the other way around.

chump-tastic
chump-tastic
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

PREACH!

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

Yeah, Maslow clearly did not think banging strange ass was a way to self-actualization.

Lulu
Lulu
8 years ago

Gdmmt, I don’t go on a support group web site for scam victims and tell them how stupid they were responding to an e-mail from a Nigerian Prince… especially if the site is offering valuable advice on how to protect themselves and make better decisions in the future.

I can assure you that us chumps are more than aware of our flaws… we cataloged each one thoroughly after (and many times before) we discovered we were cheated on. We grieve deeply over the mistakes that we made and things we could’ve done to make our marriages better because we actually took our marital vows to heart.

It is cheaters who are, more often than not, incapable of self reflection. It is they that paint themselves as victims in order to justify their behavior. Most of them would probably admit to enjoying married life, they just need a little piece on the side. It’s only AFTER their affairs are discovered that they suddenly produce a long list of grievances to justify their actions. Why aren’t you visiting one of the many adultery-related or pro-reconciliation forums available in abundance on the Internet and shouting them down?

And yeah, you’re damn right that I’m the only one that matters here! Because after spending years devoted to a man, doing everything that I could to make him happy and saving our marriage, I deserve to focus on myself entirely… just as he did the entirety of our relationship.

NCstevie
NCstevie
8 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

Hell to the YES @ Lulu!!! Very well said 🙂

ChumpLadyFan
ChumpLadyFan
8 years ago

Gdmmt is under the erroneous supposition that ALL cheaters cheat because something is supposedly ‘missing’ in the relationship/marriage. And that supposed missing element is, of course, partly the fault of the betrayed spouse.

While that may be true in some cases, it ain’t ALWAYS true.

What Gdmmt is completely ignoring are all the cheaters who cheat simply for SPORT.

They do it because they can. Because it’s fun and exciting. Because it gives them a little lift in their otherwise mundane, day-to-day lives. Because it adds a little variety for them instead of always having sex with the same old person at home year after year.

Yes Gdmmt, you’d be surprised at how many men I’ve heard whining over the last 30 years about being ‘bored’ because they wanted VARIETY. Nothing the wife was doing wrong, she just didn’t have the capability of magically morphing herself into the blonde he saw at Walmart an hour ago in the paint aisle.

And what about those who want to fly their freak flags and seek it elsewhere? Sex with trannys, Asian massage parlors, secret homosexual activity with other guys from Craigslist, paying someone to kick them in the balls with stiletto heels, and the list just goes on and on. Is that the wife’s fault too, because she isn’t a tranny or because she doesn’t run an Asian Massage Parlor on the side while cooking his meals and doing his laundry and taking care of the kids? Why, the selfish bitch. How DARE she claim to be a victim?

Gdmmt actually sounds like your everyday, garden variety cheater whose all butt-hurt that we’re not considering the feelings of the poor put-upon cheater and their ‘victimhood.’

Don’t worry Gdmmt. There are more than a few infidelity sites where the betrayeds delude themselves into thinking cheaters need understanding and forgiveness no matter how bad their atrocities were and no matter how much of their pride they have to swallow in order to do it. Just go read there, instead.

jenpen
jenpen
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpLadyFan

This is the first time I felt the true need to comment. Actually since finding this site and passing it along to several of my small group friends, I have often wanted to say, YES,YES! But it is hard finding your voice after 13 years being constantly confused as to what was happening. And the fog tends to linger…. I married my husband 13 years ago, no kids, both careered in different areas. He seemed so sweet, affectionate, funny…said and did all the right things, whirlwind romance…married in eight months. Almost immediately I knew something was off…he stopped being as affectionate, didn’t see the need to help with household mundane chores, started to deny sex….within six months In this we were in counseling…I had no clue what was happening, spending all my time trying to make him happy, buy him happy, talk to him about his needs or what was wrong….fast forward to moving me across the country for HIS career, mine no longer as important or all my clients, my college aged children , my ill mother…leave them behind, sex non existent now, tells me he is a non sexual person, never had been sexual…?WTF? How would I not know that…tells me he CANT have sex…doesn’t want help…but loves me and our life…no affection EVER, not allowed to touch him, pillows between us at nite….I can’t believe it that I stayed, but as my counselor said, He’s very very good at manipulation…had her and many fooled for a long time….then DDay last fall….HUNDREDS of other women hid in an email account I stumbled across, Ashley Madison, women at his job, he had so much going on on his four face books, many emails….all those downloaded apps.(I can be techy too), he and our neighbors husband together supporting each other lying to both of us (she just divorced).
When asked why? Why not just say something if he wanted something else? Why drag me along on another move? Oh, he was happy married to me, loved our life and never wanted that to change….just said it made him FEEL good about himself…loved being liked and wanted by all those women…even chased women he wasn’t attracted to to make them want them, then dumped them. He said the more he got the more he wanted, more, different, riskier, because he likes taking risks you know, he’s a daring kind of guy. He admitted he ENJOYED being sneaky, secretive, and lying…he said LYING made people like him. But I don’t get it he says…its not as bad as my perception of HIS reality…he never wanted to leave me….it wasn’t me, I was a great supportive kind wife…a good person, he said. What’s wrong with our life? He wondered, as long as I didn’t know how was that hurting me? I just sat looking at him….now I’m speechless, not to mention threw up a little in my mouth!
After being diagnosed a sex addict (ya think), Attachment disorder, NPD, ADD….several months of counseling…him…trickle down truth over ten months…the picture growing ever bigger….were now at eight years of admitted cheating and lying…I’m sure it’s longer…and no, He won’t do a polygraph as he’s sure He won’t pass with his anxiety…but I love you and promise I’m a changed person.
Bottom line…with the help of chump lady I realize…the true problem all along was he simply is an entitled, selfish, ass lacking any type of character. He did it because he could….felt he deserved to have his fun…didn’t once think he needed to stop or be concerned about me or our life together at all. End of story. One more thing…if the AP thinks they know for one minute what our cheating spouses want or need…they better think again….a liar is a liar is a liar….I got to read ALOT of emails and texts from my cheating husband to the OW before he was aware I knew….he lied through his teeth to all of them. It was a game…most likely still is. I’m removing myself from the playing field.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  jenpen

Welcome to ChumpNation jenpen! Feels good to get your story off your chest and know that you’re not crazy, right?
He doesn’t have ‘sex addiction’ as that term is a crock of shit. He is just a narcissistic fuckwit where everything in life must revolve around him and his needs. People like this don’t change, and they just try to manipulate others into providing for them. Even therapy is just a means for them to refine their manipulation tactics.
He won’t do a polygraph because he knows damn well he’s lying. That is the only reason why. Also, you’re correct that its all a game to him. He doesn’t give a fuck about anyone except himself.
Run like hell from this bastard, if you haven’t already! Take the time, if any, to collect evidence away from him, and go for the jugular.

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago
Reply to  jenpen

Welcome jenpen, things are great here on the sidelines off the playing field! My authentic life may not be excited and drama filled but it’s peaceful and full of real love from my friends and family.

I too heard a lot of voice mails from the HasBeen to his AP. I particularly eye roll at the ones where he was so miserable having to go do something that he told me and our children he was excited about. I truly hope his AP divorces and marries him and they experience their twu wuv constantly having to go everywhere together and be with each other all the time or risk wondering if the other is cheating since ether know the capability is there.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  jenpen

JenPen.. Welcome. Thanks for telling your story. I am glad you are shaking free of this guy. He’s a sicko and you deserve better.

These people don’t change.. this forum is full of people just like you, and we get it. Hugs and good luck with your new cheater free life. It’s better on the other side.

lorelei
lorelei
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Wow JenPen, you boiled down a whole lotta essential truths about life with the Disordered Ones into a few cogent paragraphs. Well done. Truth. Preach it. Thank you for sharing — such a clear view with his “huh?” responses. I got the same nonlogic — if I didn’t know about cheating, then why was it a problem? From the guy who was always angry exhausted and absent. 25 years. Huh indeed. Now he tells people I left him because — he guesses charmingly ruefully — I didn’t like that he worked so hard.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  jenpen

JenPen–I’m glad you decided to tell your story.

donna
donna
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

JenPen

So glad your here and sharing. X’s behavior was the same. Moved to Florida when I was in my last year of graduate school. There were BIG promises with NO substance. They want to take you along the ride to hell with them with not a care about your needs. They prime us. I stopped following him after I list my home and had to file bankruptcy. This was when my depression started, my hair stopped growing and I went through menopause in my early 40’s, literally overnight. Hoping you have an exit plan and screw the counseling with him. Please don’t waste another second on the dusirdered. Take care if you and find your own therapist. I wasted 14 more years. Don’t tollerste this abuse.

Chumpedupchik
Chumpedupchik
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Jenpen – wow! Take your life back! Cheater McFuckwit also told me he did not see how I was harmed so long as I didn’t KNOW what he was doing “out there.” W.T.F.? He said if I hadn’t gone nosing around, everything would be fine. Again, I could only stare at him in bewilderment (as you described doing) and think W.T.F.H.? He is beyond disordered and fucked up if he believes that. Well, actually he’s never NOT going to believe that whatever HE does is fine – so long as I don’t know or he thinks I can’t find out. That simply means he’s going to continue doing whatever the fuck he wants, and he will just change some of his tactics since I’ve learned about many of the ways he duped me already (while I was “NOSING around”). Fuck that shit. 25 wasted years. Now I’m planning my escape. Gonna ride outta this cesspool he created asap – on one of those ducks I’m lining up.

He made it clear he would never let me go easy – so I need to be smart about it. Once you decide you’re out, things seem better even IF you can’t extricate yourself that very moment (unless there is physical or other abuse that one can not deal with of course). I guess I’ve extricated my heart and mind at least, even if it hurts and I didn’t want this, and there’s relief for me in making the decision even though I can’t act on it just yet. Sounds like you did too – not playing ball on THAT shitty field. Good for you! Big hugs

Ohana
Ohana
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpedupchik

JenPen and chumpedupchik, mine said the same. Also that he was “protecting me” and “they meant nothing” and “it had nothing to do with me.” It was bewildering. Even more dumbfounding, he truly seemed at a loss to understand how I could walk away from an otherwise perfect marriage.

Excuse me while I gag for a moment.

Anyway, I’ve removed myself from the playing field (love that phrase) and life is increasingly great. I hope you get free soon.

Cheaterssuck
Cheaterssuck
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpLadyFan

I have to disagree with you Fan. No cheater cheats because something is missing from the marriage. Not even one.

Cheaters cheat because they lack the character to end the marriage honestly when they’re unhappy. It really is quite that simple.

I was married for close to 26 years. My list of unmet needs before and after the ex’s affair was staggering. I didn’t cheat and it’s not like I didn’t have opportunities.

As a matter of fact, about 2 years into our wreckconciliation I realized things weren’t working out. I kept having the “big conversation” with myself because I was practicing for the big day.

The tipping point was when I got a proposition that I started fantasizing about actually doing. I asked for a divorce the next day. I figured I had given reconciliation a shot; I wasn’t getting what I needed so I told him that I didn’t think we were working. If it was getting to the point where I wanted to sleep with someone else it was over for me.

What did he do? Did he change, try to participate more? No! He set up dating profiles while he begged me to stay through the holidays. As for me? That fantasy didn’t happen before, during or after my divorce. I decided to focus on me.

There is absolutely NO instance when a cheater cheats because they’re missing something. People with integrity don’t cheat.

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago
Reply to  Cheaterssuck

Yep, everyone has unmet needs or wants. The difference is how they address them.

Cheating on your spouse is more about poor character than it is about poorly met needs. After all, it’s likely, BOTH spouses have needs that were poorly met by the other. The difference is how they choose to respond in the circumstance.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Cheaterssuck

I agree. There is NO way to be happy with most of these habitual cheaters. Our marriages were doomed from day 1, we just didn’t know that.

Cheaters engage in tawdry sexual behavior, then spill their justification when they are caught. David B (below) is also correct–meet one of their demands, they raise the bar. Marriage vows don’t say both parties have to be perfect or there would be ZERO marriages. There is no winning with a cheater. None. Just escape and go NC as best you can.

DavidB
DavidB
8 years ago

What i found out is….. Mine expressed needs and wants. Each and every time I achieved one, she would up the bar. There was no needs she needed met from me! It was just an illusion a mind fuck. A distraction…. a way to make her feel good about herself…. justification…. A person of character would have just left and moved on!

fishfast41
fishfast41
8 years ago
Reply to  DavidB

Exactly,DavidB!!! Same thing here. I describe her as being a bottomless pit of unmet needs and wants. No matter what ya do, there’s always something more you must do to make them happy.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  DavidB

OMG, my STBX did this too. On DDay he gave me a laundry list of my faults.. some of them ridiculous but others I took to heart, because they were valid. So I tried to fix them. I went on anxiety meds, found a marriage counselor, tried to plan dates/time with him, upped sex.

After a few months of this (and him continuing contact with the whore on the side) he started nit picking my efforts. That’s when I knew I was done.

Mindfuckery and cruelty.

arlo
arlo
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Yes, the goalposts were always moving. Fix one thing, and another one popped up. Fixed it but didn’t fix it the right way. Fixed it but it doesn’t stay fixed. Fixed it but that created a whole new problem. Fixed it but that just shows how bad something else is by comparison.
In the end, the only thing broken is the chump’s spirit.

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  arlo

Yup. Mine set me up to fail. Moving goalposts, all that s**t. I felt like I was going crazy. All so he could blame me rather than admit to OW.

Blown Away
Blown Away
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

You know, I never thought about this! He was constantly on my back about something…what he nagged me about, I repaired. Then we had something else that was not up to his standards…WOW. It moved through the whole marriage and invaded every aspect of our relationship. I could just never measure up and he delighted in telling MANY all of my flaws.

logo65
logo65
8 years ago
Reply to  Blown Away

My life as well. The moving goal posts. The laundry lists of the ways i didn’t measure up. I tried and tried and pretzelled and bent and considered things i never in my right mind would consider all to “keep him” – and i was so convinced he was such a prize catch. Even now, almost 5 years later i feel the guilt that i couldn’t “meet his needs”. Luckily for me he has remarried his EAP (emotional AP) and she doesn’t appear to like to bend quite so much. May they have all the happiness they deserve.

Carol
Carol
8 years ago

He thinks the cheaters we were married to gave us a laundry list of things we needed to change in order to please and satisfy them, and then they waited patiently for us to comply? Yeah right. Mine wrote me love notes and acted like he was totally and completely devoted to me. To my face, he treated me like a princess and I had NO IDEA he was unhappy. Basically, I don’t think he really was. I think he just liked to fuck co-workers AND be married. But, of course, the minute he was busted, SUDDENLY, he’d been miserable the entire time we were together. LOL.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Yep, same thing. Mine told me he’d “never been happy” and “we should have never gotten married” and if “not for our kids, we’d have never stayed together” (one of our kids is just 4.. so 4 years ago we HAD a kid).

Bullshit, all of it.

MJD
MJD
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

I love hearing stories that help me realize I’m not alone. My asshole cheater narc was banging whores from the 2nd month in, proposed to me on his own volition and when he got caught….OH HE’S THE SADDEST SAUSAGE ON THE PLANET. Never had happiness. Never got over his ex. Never felt validated. Never felt supported. blah blah let me call the wahhhmbulance for you.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Exact. Same. Words.
It’s in the book, I guess.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol, that was my exact situation. My ex was a devoted husband, always telling me he loved me, always saying he would never want to divorce or leave, always saying he was happy. Right up until dday, when the story changed to he never should have married me, we had nothing in common, he’d basically been miserable since the day we met. Of course, as it turns out, he was cheating non-stop from our dating days until we divorced. Not much opportunity in any of that for me to figure out what was wrong and fix it, even if that had been possible.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago
Reply to  Carol

This was my X too. Everything you wrote is the same as my situation.

ChumpLadyFan
ChumpLadyFan
8 years ago
Reply to  Carol

LOL…right? Just as you described, I’ve seen SO many married couples that seem so happy and content and the husband is oh so adoring toward his wife and blah blah blah.

That is, until she leaves the room.

Then, he suddenly devolves into a classless, hormonal baboon, scouting the room and commenting on every woman he sees and talking about how he’d like to bang the brunette 3 tables over. I’ve also seen quite a few of them start bragging to their buddies about the ho they picked up at the bar a couple nights before and brag about the strange piece they got.

Then wifey comes back into the room and the phony adoration begins all over again.

Anita
Anita
8 years ago

And here’s the thing. The one I didn’t understand till CL. These losers aren’t unhappy. Statistics prove this. Unhappy people leave. They want a side fuck, and their real life too. Cause they know the side fuck is not relationship material. Most people cheat cause there is an available, easy lay. And poor character, of course. On the part of both cheaters. No victims there.

Lina
Lina
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

Mine was definitely unhappy. Always was. He’s just a miserable person who is tortured by self loathing. The problem is, he decided it was my fault instead of getting therapy or doing some self reflection. He decided some strange would be the answer. Typical.

WhichWayDidSheGo
WhichWayDidSheGo
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

People are so mismatched.

I spent a lot of time miserable and depressed and did everything I could to get better (therapy, meds, reading everything I could get my hands on) and also to reassure my ex that none of it was due to her and that she was the best thing in my life. I compensated like a mad man for the times when I was too depressed to participate in activities. My efforts were never good enough and off she went.

You were patient and loving towards an asshat who took it for granted. WTF? Yes, I’m going to sound like a crybaby, but life is so fucking unfair.

kar marie
kar marie
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Dear dear Linda, my ex asswipe to a tee! Thank you.

ChumpyElf
ChumpyElf
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

In Asshat’s case it’s a lovely combination of a lack of self control and a knack for rewriting history to serve his own selfish needs. And I do think deep down, he is happy but will never be satisfied. The grass is always greener. I thought the fear of missing out was something you grew out of as you mature.

nomar
nomar
8 years ago

Gdmmt, poor child, you get a F- in Logic 101, and Rhetoric 101. And also in being a human being.

Cheating on your spouse is “not the optimal choice” for dealing with marital issues? You don’t say.

Per the same logic,

Burning your home down is “not the optimal choice” for dealing with plaid wallpaper.
Amputating your leg is “not the optimal choice” for dealing with a peeling pedicure.
Hydrofluoric acid is “not the optimal choice” for dealing with halitosis.

Cheating on a spouse is one of the most devastating actions a person can take against another person. You clearly don’t get that, Gdmmt. And we can explain it for you, but we can’t understand it for you.

You sound young. That’s a good thing. You still have time to grow a soul. Good luck with your gardening.

Kelly
Kelly
8 years ago
Reply to  nomar

LOVE this Nomar

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Hahah, Nomar!

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I don’t know, Nomar, plaid wallpaper, once you’ve seen it you might set yourself on fire.

On a serious note, do you think someone who is young and in this mindset can grow a soul or do they need the experience of being a loving respectful partner who gets emotionally and physically shredded to truly understand what happens?

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

I’ll take plaid wallpaper (a nice Blackwatch tartan perhaps) over my cheater any day.

PF
PF
8 years ago

Excellent UBT once again CL.

The “gdmmt” poster is obviously bitter, angry, a bully, and wants to maintain the cheater narrative as being the true victim.

Supposedly cheaters don’t know what to do, it’s their spouse who is the cause for signing up on Ashley Madison, it’s their spouse who forced them to take groin selfies in the washroom, it’s their spouse who forced them to miss their kids events or time with them because they were forced to give up family time in order to suck cock or inject anal beads up their arse.

Cheaters are the “victims” they are forced to reinvent themselves in motel rooms, back seat of the family van, forced to groom their junk…and it hurts to rip that wax off from your balls, it hurts to be a cheater.

Cheaters are in pain, they don’t want to cheat but the spouse gave them no choice.

Everday cheaters arrive in hospital emergency rooms all over the country with wax burned groins, SHARTING themselves because the anal beads got stuck up there, dicks bent out of shape because of the the threesome they felt forced to participate in with Craig list hookups. Cheaters with severe handcrampsfrom having to write love letters and slam poetry…it hurts….they sexting digits hurts….holding in farts hurts when cheating and suffer from becoming bloated hurts ….cheaters are suffering and it’s the spouses fault.

Cheaters are the victims, “gdmmt” didn’t know what to do, “gdmmt” got confused and in the confusion dialed 1- 800 -Fuck-Buddy instead of a marriage counsellor or divorce lawyer.

Poor cheaters, they have feelings, especially in their junk.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

I laughed really hard at this, but seriously, what hospitals have you been hanging out at?

lorelei
lorelei
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

I am guessing AM has a subsidiary: AM Hospital (“Life is short! Treat that STD!”)

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
8 years ago

I haven’t read all the comments yet, but my first reaction is the fact that in MOST cases, the cheater WAS getting their need met in their marriage. They cheated anyhow.

nomar
nomar
8 years ago
Reply to  LiningUpDucks

The overwhelming majority of cheaters were getting their NEEDS met within the marriage, just not their WANTS. Cheaters are perpetual adolescents and so don’t understand the difference. Most cheaters WANT to fuck around and keep their spouse in the dark. It is impossible for a spouse to satisfy that want.

Five jump chump
Five jump chump
8 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Well put concerning wants vs needs… I was told at one point:

“I wanted to feel butterflies”

Poster child for an immature, self centered adolescent. Seems you got them, along with destroying two families, a 23 year marriage with a person of character and functioning moral compass, and the trust and respect of a beautiful kind daughter… There is NO WAY these cheater scumbags are not completely off of their rockers. To be able to live a complete double life so seamlessly, lie so easily and so much, have ZERO empathy for their deeds; hell she reveled in them using her own words!

I am so glad to be divorced (Dec 2013), and have that cancer cut out of my life. I do however hate the fact that this POS is still the mother to my 19 y/o daughter, and I do wish my exPOS would stop taking up breathing. OK gdmmt, bring out the bitter bunny… Nah, just go fuck yourself.

lostntx
lostntx
8 years ago

“Nah, just go fuck yourself”

Very well told!

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago

Mine used the term “passion”. Same stupid shit.

lorelei
lorelei
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

On the cheater support site “adultery” (subreddit), they call those butterflies and that passion “NRE” (New Relationship Energy). They warn each other not to get too blinded by its overpowering awesomeness. Because if you get too blinded you might slip up, make a mistake, and GET CAUGHT BY YOUR SPOUSE. Because — they are all about protecting their marriages. Sick fuckwads all.