Unwittingly the Other Man
Hey Chump Lady,
I am in the middle of reading your book right now. I’m only about 60% through, about to start ‘The Fine Art of No Contact’, so I don’t know if you’ve touched on this yet, but what’s your opinion on exposing a cheater? You’ve talked a lot about consequences.
Here’s my situation: I started to see a girl I am in my mid-30s, btw. It started out casual, but she would call and text a lot, and put a lot of effort into getting to know me. I appreciated it and it made me want to invest in what we were developing. She never let me meet her family. Her reasoning: They’re all drunks, embarrassing, lot of family drama. Never let me take her out in her small town 45 mins away; she always came to me. Her reasoning: It’s a small town and she doesn’t like people knowing her business. There was always an excuse.
So, here we were, over a year in, and I thought what we had was pretty solid. However, I learn on my own, she has been in a relationship the entire time, and two years before that. She got on her boyfriend’s Facebook, blocked me so I couldn’t contact him (and surely she’s monitoring in case I had someone else contact him, or made a second account) swore up and down, it’s been on and off, made excuses as to why she got back with him. Swore I was the primary relationship, and it feels like she cheated on me more than it feels she cheated on him. She isn’t in love with him anymore, and just needs to figure out a way to break it off.
Sadly, I bought it and stuck around. Then it was “I need to let you both go, and be by myself and work on myself,” which eventually led to “I choose to stay with him. I can’t uproot my life and make that big a change to my life, he’s involved with my family and I’m involved with his.”
We’d say our goodbyes, but she inevitably pops up a few days later, unable to stay away (I know, eating cake) I’ve considered contacting his mom and letting her know. I have evidence: a year’s worth of screenshots, voice messages, videos, pics of her at my house, etc. I wasn’t even close to the only one. She dated a guy for a few months before me, and had kind of a wild spree with a lot of random hookups, which I thought was just her living it up single, but apparently those were all cheating too. I’ve even thought about contacting her mom to let her know, yes she’s been with me the past year-plus.
D-day was August 11th. It is now September 27th, and today I told her to focus on her relationship and leave “us” alone. But, I’m sure she’ll come back around. I feel like a POS that after discovering everything, I stuck around and enabled/helped her continue cheating.
I feel like exposing her will be what it takes to make her hate me and actually want to stay away for good. But even then, not a guarantee.
Sorry this was so verbose. It’s just weighed heavily on my mind the last month and a half, and my world has just felt upside down. I mean I’ve been cheated on before, but never had it like this where I thought we were together but found out I was the affair partner.
Thoughts?
Ed
***
Dear Ed,
Yes. Get some boundaries.
We’ll get to exposing in a moment. You can throw a Molotov cocktail into her world, but it won’t do a thing if you don’t have the backbone to dump her (or anyone) definitively.
Because she WILL circle back. Whether it’s for damage control or drama kibbles, it’s what these freaks do. (Google “hoovering.”)
I feel like exposing her will be what it takes to make her hate me and actually want to stay away for good.
Her feelings are entirely besides the point. A fuckwit has a sadz? She earned every consequence.
You are the master of your life. YOU decide she needs to stay away for good. Pop quiz! WHY should she stay away for good?
- She enlisted you in the abuse of her boyfriend.
- She cheated on you.
- She kept up a yearlong deception.
Fill in every other ugly detail. Is this who you want to be? A side dish fuck? Is being with this person bringing out your best self, or do you enjoy skulking around?
Swore I was the primary relationship
Ed, primary means you’re in a competing line up of contenders. (And you’re not primary. The narcissist is. You’re never more than a minor satellite.)
It’s a classic cheater bait-and-switch tactic. You thought you were exclusive and then you learn you’ve been in a unilateral “open” relationship. Is that acceptable to you?
By swearing you’re the primary guy, she’s telling you can pick me dance for the awesomeness of her. She’s in the power seat, you’re in tap shoes.
and it feels like she cheated on me more than it feels she cheated on him.
Well, that’s the Schmoopie mindset. Dude, it’s not equivalent. From August 11 to September 27, you were a willing co-conspirator. You knew she was a cheater. Until your D-Day, you were unwitting. After you found out, you had a character choice to make, and you flunked the test. (It’s not fatal — learn better, do better.)
The chumped hometown boyfriend with his two-year commitment, assuming he’s unaware of you, is the victim here.
She isn’t in love with him anymore, and just needs to figure out a way to break it off.
SHE HAS BEEN WITH YOU FOR A YEAR. When exactly was she going to clear her calendar for this awkward discussion that she’s fucking other men?
When you heard this crap, Ed, where was the breaker switch in your head that went GAME OVER? Yeah, I don’t need the details of your tortured love rhombus, Bitch. Get out of my life.
That’s what a boundary looks like. Is what she’s offering (chorus line with the Pick Me dancers) acceptable to you? No? Take action.
As in YOU take action. You don’t passively wait for her to take action. (She’s a FW. She will act self-servingly.) You don’t create chaos to decide the hard things for you. You adult and do the hard things.
“Fuckwit, even though I’ve invested a year of my life in you and had dreams and hopes, you are a fraud. Take your STD-pocked ass back to Tinder.”
Now then. Exposure.
I’ve considered contacting his mom and letting her know.
I’m all for telling chumps they’re chumps, but I’m leery of third parties. It’s a small town, you have a name from FaceBook. It can’t be that hard to find this guy, can it?
I realize your motives are not pure. Schmoopie motives usually aren’t. (I found out from the long-term OW. She wasn’t nice about it. Didn’t matter.) I still think the Golden Rule applies here — you’d want to know if it was you. And cheating is the theft of your reality. Chump boyfriend deserves his reality.
Assuming you’re able to connect, be kind and direct. “I’m sorry to tell you this, but I’ve been dating your girlfriend for the last year.” You offer to provide proof, give your name, and a way to reach you. And then you let go. What he does with this knowledge is his business.
I prefer that people tell chumps, because I’m Team Chump. But you may decide that your boundaries are still wobbly, and you don’t want further drama with this person. You need to work that out. But the next part is crucial:
NO CONTACT.
Block her. Get off her social media. Do all the things. Kick the hopium that she’s saveable.
And then go examine your issues on why you would spend five seconds on a cheater when you don’t have the deep sunk costs of marriage, children, or mortgages.
She’s a terrible person you never knew.
****
Chump Nation news — Happy Tuesday! There’s a lot going on! New site design, still working out the kinks. The latest Tell Me How You’re Mighty podcast dropped today — an interview with trauma specialist Diane Strickland, creator of YourStoryIsSafeHere.com. We talk about bogus sex addiction therapy, women being diagnosed as codependents when they’re in abusive situations, and the societal shame around “angry” women. If you’d like early ad-free access to the podcasts, become at patron at Patreon.
Also, we’re in the countdown to CHUMPALOOZA! We’ve got the schedule of events up now! Meet Mr. CL and get the “If It Feels Good Don’t Do It” lecture in person, along with his hand-holding on how to the survive legal process. (The man loves a deposition.) We’ve got Divorce Minister! We’ve got UXWorld as Master of Ceremonies and a bunch of AMAZING mighty stories! We’ve got a CN member and University of Texas psychologist giving us academic lectures on her soon-to-be groundbreaking infidelity research! And we’ve got unicorn piñata’s! Get your tickets!
Great advice, CL.
Tell the chump boyfriend in a nice way and be there for any follow-up questions, because it’s the right thing to do..but otherwise disconnect from everything and anything related to her immediately.. You already ignored so many red flags in the beginning (about her not wanting to be seen with you in her home town).. We all do that to some extent and believe some lame excuses, but wow, these were very obvious, shady and in-your-face type of red flags.
Ed,
This is the only game that you win by walking away from the table. You don’t have too much by way of “sunk costs” (ie you don’t mention having children or co-owning a house), so get out, block her and go no contact.
As regards involving 3rd parties in exposing your FW, I’d tread warily, as you don’t know how they will react; interestingly, Ex-Mrs LFTT’s mother (a Chump herself) criticised me very publicly for having the sheer audacity to challenge her daughter for cheating on me. In her mind, I should have said nothing and hoped that it would have all blown over.
In sum, walk away and go no contact for the win.
LFTT
I think instead of using your energy telling other people about her, you can use this information to fix your picker! What were the red flags? I am starting to date and I’m going to flat out ask the date “are you free to date?” So if they lie about that question that is all you need to know. It hurts to think you were used but you are lucky you can cut and run easily. Use your energy for yourself!
I ask, right up front, “Does anyone *think* that they are in an exclusive relationship with you?”
Definitely tell the smalltown chump. He needs to know. That’s the right thing to do. She is using people… they are just her vehicle for gratification… not treating others as people.
Just read your posting this am.
It is about how many folks and preachers do not understand that the sinner is responsible for the sin, not the victims.
From DM: “The sad part is some pastors fail to understand this very basic dynamic. They get taken in by the cheater’s portrayals of their victims. Instead of seeing them as ploys to manipulate outsiders, they seriously embrace the fabricated images of faithful spouses as the monsters cheaters claim them to be.”
To me this extends to a lot of folks. It is astounding to me that seemingly reasonable intelligent folks will listen to a proven liar, and take their word against the person who was abused.
Hi Ed,
Tracy’s thoughts and advice are spot on. For your sanity and that of the other guy, act on her advice.
You can liken your situation to being a dupe who hooked up with Bernie Madoff. It seemed great, it had not only today’s rewards but also the promise of bigger and better in the future. You were hooked! Now think of what happened in terms f Bernie paying you with money the other guy was investing — under the banner of the same promises.
You didn’t do it intentionally until you did. Own the part you need to own. And then, because it needs to be done, get a warning to the other Dupe. Whathe does with it from there is up to him. He can keep investing his life with FW/Madoff or he can cut his losses and head off for a real life and real love with someone who doesn’t find it acceptable to mindf*ck him.
Don’t stick around, don’t plot revenge, don’t daydream that one day FW/Bernie will decide you really are the love of her life. She won’t. She proved that fact for a year.
Good luck. You will heal and there are a whole lot of amazing, wonderful, fun and perfect women out there who won’t to that to you.
Joining the chorus here.
Tell chimp directly.
Block.
Focus inward.
One of the APs in my story just posted receipts on her public social media and waited for me to figure out who to look up. Nothing like publicly being called stupid for not figuring it out sooner. Tell directly and move on with your life.
The latest podcast was AMAZING! I’m going to listen to it again and take notes.
Thanks! If you want links to the research she talks about go to the show notes at http://www.tellmehowyouremighty.com
Thank you!
I think these cheaters are so ahead of their chumps in the game playing. For instance, the excuses of not wanting to go to her town on dates. Mine was texting in the bathroom. The thing is…..NOW I can google that behavior and see it is a number one red flag. But, chumpy me’s brain never even thought to put that into a google search bar! I was just busy, busy working on my marriage, trying to be more loving and easy to get along with so he could love me again. Believing he was chatting with friends and wanting to be supportive of his male friendships.
Hindsight and all….. we have to give ourselves grace. We are trustworthy and we believe others are too. Maybe google should have a in-you-face message occasionally to call out us chumpies!
In considering outing her to everyone in her circle….. chumplady gives you the parameters of how to look at it and make your decisions. FW was sputtering angry at me in the end because he had exposed his secret second life and surprised that not all of the reaction around him was cheery, envious or celebrating his win. What that looked like was he was finally revealing many of his true thoughts and character right in front of me. And I did use a memorized string of replay of those most horrible moments of his anger – to help me get through the worst of days of fetal position crying.
“I think these cheaters are so ahead of their chumps in the game playing. ”
To me it’s like how criminals are always ahead of their victims. The mugger is always ahead of the muggee. He already has his crime planned and knows what he’s gonna do….punch you in the head and steal your wallet. The Madoffs of the world know they’re gonna sell you a bunch of worthless crap and steal your money. The criminal already has his crime planned out and his mark (you) picked out. So he’s thought out his routine, his attack, his getaway, his lies if he’s caught, etc….much of it. The victim on the other hand, is always caught by surprise and always playing catch-up because….no one expects to be attacked or plotted against. And certainly not by someone you know and love. They always have the drop on us, the advantage, the edge. We always play catch-up ball, lying on the ground, stunned and moaning.
Ed, Just a reminder, get tested for all STDs. Men should have swabs of their mouths added as well. Each month that goes by, you’ll think of her less. There are so many good women out there looking for someone like you.
Ed……if you were this guy……would you want to know? If you could go back to when you just met this horrible person……..and she IS…..would you have wanted someone to pop up and tell you? If your brother or your best friend were in a relationship with this absolute POS….and she IS…..would you want him to know? YES YOU WOULD. You need to get info to him somehow even if you have to walk up to him in the street. You have to tell him. Why? Because it’s the Right Thing To Do. Always Do The Right Thing. It’s not just a movie title. This woman is horrible and she’s going to destroy many lives in her selfish dysfunction and you have to let people know what she is. What if she marries this guy and has kids with him? Or kids he THINKS are his? Do The Right Thing – or try to anyway. Some people get upset finding out, don’t be surprised but others are incredibly grateful. It’s better for you as well – you need to keep her out of your life once and for all, this will stop the yo-yo’ing on your side. This woman is real evil – the kind that wrecks people’s lives. You can help stop it. But you’ve got to STOP being part of it.
Person that wrote in here: I appreciate Tracy’s insight as well as all the commentors. I’m not even giving her so much of a “get lost” but I am simply ghosting. Also, unable to find any info on boyfriend in the small town, I may have an email address. Going to try it, and be as kind as possible and show proof so she can’t lie her way out of it, and if that fails, then I will ask a relative for his contact info, and if that fails, just let them know what’s going on so they can relay it to him, and then I’m gone.
Hindsight and reflecting on all of this has been so ugly and painful, as is the realization that I could be almost 2 months into healing and getting past it, but what’s done is done I suppose. Learn and do better, and create boundaries as Tracy said.
If the email fails, look him up online in a people search. It shouldn’t be difficult if you know his name and they live in a small town.
Thanks for weighing in. Ghosting is a bit pejorative. You’re no contact. It’s a decision. I’m glad you made it. Welcome!
I told her to focus on her relationship and leave
“us”ME alone. ME. That’s the word you’re looking for there. “Leave ME alone.” There is no “us.” That never existed.Plus, you don’t have to tell her that. You can just do it yourself. Leave her alone. If you’ve been cheated on before, you likely have a pattern to unravel here.
As a man in your mid-thirties:
1) I hope you’re not dating “girls”.
2) You’ve never been to your “girlfriend’s” house in the year that you’ve been dating and are supposedly exclusive. You are beyond naive.
3) This is a *you* problem.
4) Tell the chump boyfriend directly. Go no contact.
I think you might be too hard on Ed (LW) – like many of us he trusted what was presented to him. Now part of that for all of us, I think, is that we want to believe which is why we keep overlooking red flags, we can all spot in retro. So, I’d give him a mulligan. Good guy used by a trollop. He needs to understand that’s what she is though and end it completely and forever. Also, there are times when some things are true – my family are all drunks and losers so I wouldn’t be introducing anyone when I was younger either, LOLOL, but at least I had friends and my own apartment, etc, so I wasn’t like the Phantom.
I think most people thought that I was beyond naive. How did I not know? Why did I not put it together? We talk a lot here about projecting our values onto other people, assuming that they are kind-hearted and trustworthy. Yes, that needs to be un-learned, for sure, but I don’t fault myself for not being fluent in dishonesty. I really never expected it.
So Ed! Its just your basic, very basic pick me dance. You dont have to dance or select the music, nor set up chairs. ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT is needed to break the spell, and it is a bond that these actors and actresses pretenders to the throne, cast over us…WHY? Because we care, we bleed we have hearts. Your BFF girl? She feels nothing, even if she cries, ( not real tears) even if she comes back a ” changed woman”. That a hook and you have let her in before right? Don’t do it!! As CL says, pack your ears with cotton and tie yourself to the master and stay away from her sob story. She feels nothing except her own feelings it is tragic but YOU CANT HELP HER! I stayed in my abusive marriage way way too long. I could kick myself now but I’ll be ok. Cut your losses. She does not know how to love. Find someone who loves you for who you are and CONGRATULATIONS for not getting married or making babies with this loser. RUN!!
Does anyone have experience with “exposure”? I haven’t, but from the few that I have heard, my take would be 1) probably tell, because people have a right to know the truth about their life, but 2) be prepared that the interaction will NOT go the way you thought it would go.
It may go fine. But you are potentially diving into some drama, so take measures to protect yourself. Don’t be surprised if the other man takes out his anger on you, or is weirdly defensive of the FW. Brace yourself for the narcissistic rage of your FW, who may decide to go on a public relations campaign against you, but won’t be burdened by concepts such as “the truth” or “integrity.” Strategize before getting into it. FWs can be nasty when you puncture the bubble of their carefully-constructed image.
Ed, your post raises a question for me. Why do so many people seem to think not being “in love” with a partner justifies cheating? You bought this as a justification and continued seeing her. I’m wondering why that is. My ex repeatedly used this same inane excuse. I am not “in love” with any of the people in my life or with people not in my life. That does not justify betraying and mistreating any of them.
Don’t tell the chump’s mom, the FW’s mom, or any other uninvolved party. Don’t mess with the lives of people who have nothing to do with it. Plus, you have mo way of knowing if they will disclose. I do think you should tell, and be sure to tell him about all the randos she’s been screwing. He is in danger of getting an STD. Do you have her home phone number or address? It shouldn’t be hard to get if you know the area she lives in. You could try snail mail if you don’t have his email, but the FW could intercept it. I let the other chump in my case know via his work email, as FW had been dumb enough to mention where he worked. It was easy to find his email on the company web page. Another way is to send him a message via his LinkedIn profile, if he has one.
These people! I don’t why people feel like they can do this to people they love, but they do. The lies and the games are just horrid.
Personally, I hit the point when I was sick of crazytown and chose to step away from it before it brought me down. I cut off his enabling family who believed the lies. I stopped talking about it with our mutual friends. And I told him that I was done with all reconciliation talk.
The next person I talked to about it was my attorney, and of course, he heard the whole mess. It was a wild and crazy divorce but got settled without court. That was followed by a messy closeout and the pandemic. Just one fun thing after another.
I found out that I didn’t have to justify myself. The marriage was bad in many ways, the separation was worse, and the divorce/closeout were the worst. But if people value me, they accept me and believe me. Everyone who wasn’t accepting and believing has been pushed far away. So there was a lot of shifting, but in the end, all good.
About spilling the beans– I prefer anonymous warnings from an “old friend” via dummy email who’s too cowardly to name themselves because, eek, FWs can be dangerous. I don’t know what Kant would say about lying for a good purpose but it beats getting run down in a parking lot, poisoned, set on fire, shot, etc.
Sample:
Hey man,
I’ve always thought a lot of you so when I learned something that would affect your life, it didn’t feel right not to tell you. But I’m taking the coward’s way of doing it by writing this to you anonymously. I’m sorry for that but, to be honest, your girlfriend scares the hell out of me and I don’t want my family in the cross hairs.
I’m especially sorry to tell you this but she’s cheating on you and has been for years. I think she was hooking up with guy near where I live. Someone warned his dumb ass and it seems he bailed. But there were others. She’s been seen out and about by more than one person. I wish I had pictures or some kind of proof but I’m sure if you hired a PI, you’d dig up a lot.
A lot of people think highly of you and I can promise not one person is laughing or making cracks behind your back. A few women I know said if she doesn’t treat you right, there are others happy to do so. The general feeling is that you deserve much better.
Please take care.
You have to tell him. It’s going to suck, but put yourself in his shoes. Trust me. In a few years, you’ll wish you had.
She pursued you. You were nice and enjoyed being pursued and were lured in. At least you didn’t get married to her. If you want to date a duplicitous woman its your choice. I would give the other boyfriend that choice as well. Maybe he knows maybe he doesn’t.
Seems like she tried the multiple shallow one night stands with men. She found it to be too much effort to sustain so decided to just have one prime side piece. Maybe found it more gratifying to have a man that actually cared about her. She lured you in, but I think she underestimated what it takes to keep her worlds separate. She underestimated you for sure.
I wouldnt tell her mother. Her mom probably knows shes a POS and covers for her.
Testing comments!
I’m testing comments, too.
OHFFS talked about cheaters using the Im not in love anymore narrative. We all know you cant have that be in love feeling forever, normal people work at it doing nice things to show their love throughout life. Cheaters heard someone use this phrase and coopted it to use to justify abuse. Young, naïve people who are sold fairy tale endings by society fall for this. Being in live forever is BS. We all know this on this forum from experience. But we all know that we can foster love by kind acts everyday and showing up for those we love.