Want to spot a narcissist? Just ask one.

So this psychological study popped up in my feed recently. Researchers at Ohio State tried to simplify the Narcissist Personality Inventory test. You know that test? Where you go out in the wild and capture narcissists in butterfly nets and coerce them into lengthy, controlled psychological studies?

Chumps are always admonished not to diagnose the narcs in our lives because we aren’t professionals with butterfly nets and peer-reviewed test questions. But now, you’ll be happy to learn, there is a work-around!

It’s call the Single Item Narcissism Scale (SINS).

Want to avoid these freaks? ASK them if they’re narcissistic! Chances are likely that they’ll tell you. Because they think their narcissism (ALL THE KIBBLES FOR ME) is awesome. And when you’re awesome, why wouldn’t you say so? (You there without KIBBLES. LOSER! BEHOLD MY FABULOUS SUPPLY OF EGO CHOW!)

Yes, really, it comes down to a single question. Science Daily reports:

In a series of 11 experiments involving more than 2,200 people of all ages, the researchers found they could reliably identify narcissistic people by asking them this exact question (including the note):

To what extent do you agree with this statement: “I am a narcissist.” (Note: The word “narcissist” means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.)

Participants rated themselves on a scale of 1 (not very true of me) to 7 (very true of me).

Results showed that people’s answer to this question lined up very closely with several other validated measures of narcissism, including the widely used Narcissistic Personality Inventory.

This makes a lot of sense when you think about it. It is Good To Be King/Queen. Entitlement feels terrific, so long as you can suppress empathy or have none at all (sociopaths). Lack of empathy being the hallmark of the Cluster B personality disorders. It stands to reason that these freaks are dumb enough to reveal themselves, because they are not ashamed of being assholes. What we deem “asshole” they read as “superior.”

Here’s a random sample of one. My cheater freak said in marriage counseling post D-Day — and I quote:

“I love being a narcissist!”

I was agog, and the therapist yelled at me “ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS? THIS IS WHO HE IS.

Meanwhile, he just sat there with a smirk. When pressed on this stunning admission, he said that yeah, on the whole he thought he was a pretty terrific person (“a great catch”) who had made a single mistake.

How the hell I spackled over that… (Well, I didn’t totally. Instead I became embroiled in a death match to force him to ADMIT that being narcissist made him a BAD PERSON. And didn’t he see how this was harming me and everyone around him and….insert head-in-the-blender… WhirrrRRRrrrr!)

An interesting postscript — in therapy he eventually disavowed that statement. He picked up the Not So Subtle clues that people don’t like narcissists. So he learned better therapy speak. But in that unvarnished, King of the World moment? Yeah, he copped to it.

So I wonder about those other narcs out there — what’s the impression management to unvarnished moment ratio? Will they cop to it, or should we all just be better listeners, chumps?

At the end of the day, though, it doesn’t really matter what flavor of narcissist they are, or getting them to admit it. What matters is you, and what you’ll tolerate. Whether it’s one test question, or 40 questions, that’s all still untangling their ugly little skeins.

If it walks like a narc, bleats like a narc, obfuscates like a narc… trust it’s a narc. And leave the butterfly nets to those with the funded research studies.

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Natalia.B
Natalia.B
6 years ago

I’m afraid my sociopath/narc STBX would never admit it. He’s classic lack of empathy, no guilt, no remorse, takes no responsibility, takes sick pleasure in duping, low startle response (I’d noticed this way before realising its give-away psychopath), leaves emotional devastation in his wake but would NEVER admit it…..ever.

Whodoesthat
Whodoesthat
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

“Low startle response” … what about NO startle response !! Myself and DD went to see him at his office with no prior warning and after almost a year and half of no contact. He came out of a lift and barely raised his eye brows when he saw us. 18 MONTHS of not seeing his own daughter and nothing on his facial expression . He merely said ‘whats going on’. Totally wild. That blew me away.
Another thing ive noticed. Anyone see their narc yawn? I do not believe he ever yawned.

Whodoesthat
Whodoesthat
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

True… i was so shocked at ex fucktards cold calculating behaviour while he shredded documents in front of me a few days before walking out (taking my credit card with him. i spontaneously asked him if he was a psychopath. He unconvincingly said no of course not in a fake wounded way. My biggest clue after that was he wandered about the house exclaiming to himself “im awesome” …think that qualifies as disordered. …

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Back in the RIC phase, I asked the DOCTOR if he thought I was bluffing, or if he was really willing to take a chance on losing his family.

This was due to his desire for another needless credential – only obtainable in another city of course – AND only so we could return to Alaska, which obsessed him. HE liked it there. No one else did.

(Never mind that we had already in Alaska for 3 years, for him. And never mind that Alaska is where his selfishness was first fully revealed.)

The DOCTOR said he was “willing to take the chance.” Later – DOCTOR disavowed that statement and said he’d “never say anything like that.”

But I recall where I was when he said it. I was putting glaze on new drywall in our copper sink bathroom. That means I was LITERALLY spackling.

Arguable worse, was me believing that narc moment and the later denial, actually meant that men in Mid Life Crises (“MLC”) were just really super confused.

Now I see, no, not so much confusion on his part. He just didn’t like how he had sounded when he was honest, b/c point in fact, turns out he was quite willing to take a chance on losing the marriage and family.

And he has lost both. I wish to God I had listened to him when he was honest, however briefly.

OMG I feel duped and very foolish.

CreativeLifer
CreativeLifer
6 years ago

FirstWife,
I wish I had listened to my cheater husband’s initial honesty. On the first DDay (it was the middle of the night, on vacation with my in laws, after being a sleuth and finding the incriminating emails on his phone) I woke him and said “The jig is UP”. Got him to semi-confess to being “friends” with MY friend – the one he had repeatedly told me “I had nothing to worry about. He loved me and only me and would NEVER cheat on me”. Within 20 minutes of him being awakened and stammering his confession, I said with vigor that I was going to Fight For My Family, Fight For Him. He said “What if I told you there was nothing to fight for?” Boom.

And yes, I glossed over that and said You Don’t Mean That, I’ll Prove It To You. Spackled.
I would have saved A YEAR of pick me dancing, torture and sheer heartbreak if I had just listened to him the first time.

Jgirl
Jgirl
6 years ago
Reply to  CreativeLifer

Mine said: What if I don’t want to change? (Staring into space, referring to his abuse in general).
I squinted and questioned him, so he back-pedaled saying he was just wondering.
But I was already in the process of leaving and never forgot he said that.

Few months down the line, he maintained he had already changed enough (to whose liking?) and had no intention of changing anything else, claims he’s not abusive and generally stayed away because apparently a healthy relationship with me is too much trouble.

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

You just described my ex (low startle response? Wow!! I didn’t know that!) and he would never in a million years say he was a narc. He actually prides himself as being humble and doesn’t need to draw attention to his greatness. However, he’s very covert in getting attention that he needs to fill the black hold that’s inside of himself.

I read this study too when it came out — newsfeed on Facebook? I read it and said, “No. He’d never answer this way. He might think it, but would never answer yes.” I’ve gotten brief glimpses into what he thinks about himself over the years. Once he said, “Martha. You don’t realize how important I am at my job!!” He later denied ever saying it. Gaslight much? And after D-day he said to me, “I think I have the PERFECT personality to be in a relationship with.” Sure, pathological lying, serial cheating, predatory behavior, gaslighting, Jekyl and Hyde behavior sounds perfect to me! I’m sure he’d deny saying that too!

And as for the low startle response. I *knew* something wasn’t right with him with they way he acts. Best example was when our daughter was about three years old. We were on the Jersey shore on a family vacation. Our daughter befriended a little girl about her age. They were playing RIGHT BY US and then THEY WEREN’T! I immediately got so afraid and started screaming out our daughters name, running around scanning the area and eventually landed at the life guard station. We were surrounded by thousands of people and a big ocean and our daughter was missing!! What did the narc do? Nothing. Totally cool as a cucumber. Didn’t call out her name. Didn’t seem bothered at all that she was missing!! At the time I thought his response was not normal and then I spackled and told myself he was “being strong for the family.” Just like he told me after he got fired from his job and was unemotional about that too. He said to me, “I was just trying to be strong for you.” However, the day after he got fired from his job, I caught him on the phone CRYING to probably the OW that he had an affair with when I was pregnant. Man, these narcs are such crazy-makers!!!

Newme
Newme
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

Martha mine did the same thing! He was so important you know he was a cop he ruled! Then when he became car 3 in a small university police dept. that’s all I heard, Well they better listen to me I am car 3. ( car 1 was the chief and car 2 was the assistant chief). Whatever dickhead no one cares!!

Mally
Mally
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

My STBXH informed me, 3 days after he knew I wanted a divorce, that our daughter was ‘your responsibility now’.
Our daughter is epileptic.
In the months leading up to us getting outta there (he wanted the house, I didn’t, I know what he’s done in it…) our daughter repeatedly suffered from night time epileptic seizures which included her frequently falling out of bed, banging her head on the side table and bed frames, being bruised all over etc. On no ocassion during those months did he help her a single time.
On one ocassion, as I was coming out of the bathroom, he came towards me saying ‘ she’s having s fit’ then went past me into the bathroom and shut the door thereby leaving me to cope with her alone.
He repeatedly ignored her seizures even if she was next to him but would just call me to deal with it. Up until him knowing I was filing for divorce he had always helped when she had a seizure. Apparently my divorcing him means he has dropped all responsibility as a parent – not that he was ever very good at parenting anyway.

champchump
champchump
6 years ago
Reply to  Mally

Mally and Thankful, you poor souls were married to truly evil people. My husband would at least pretend to care about our kids. He had an image to uphold even when it was just me and them looking.

The hurtful, stupid ones are just narcissists. The evil ones are malignant narcissists, an apt label.

champchump
champchump
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

My x is like this too, Martha! Not only does he have a low startle response, but in 31 years I never saw him panic about anything. Our kids would be sick, I’d be panicking, he’d be cool and calm. At the time I was so stupid, I was just grateful he could balance out what I saw as my overreaction.

My son had a mole removed because it looked “suspicious.” I was beside myself for a week until the biopsy results came back. My x didn’t even think about it. He always said not to worry about anything until we knew there was something to worry about. For me, just the possibility of my child having melanoma was a huge thing to worry about. When the biopsy results came back negative, I had been waiting by the phone. I was overcome with relief when I heard the results. My x never even asked what they were, he’d probably forgotten.

It seemed as if the more anxious I got, the calmer he got, and the more irritated he would get at my anxiety. He eventually told me I needed to see my doctor for medication for my anxiety.

I’ve been living on my own without him for 3 1/2 years now. Whaddaya know, my anxiety is gone!

My x would never admit to being a narcissist either, because that is clearly a label with a negative connotation. On the other hand, once he did tell me, “I can move mountains!”

Thankful
Thankful
6 years ago
Reply to  champchump

Our youngest was diagnosed with cancer a month after D’day he had no alarm. When I sat with him after the medical team left the room and I told him that he and I were over because I could no longer fight him and help our daughter fight cancer, he did not respond he just sat there.When I then left the room a friend of ours who had come as support said to him your marriage is over, she is done with you and he just calmly responded, No it’s not, she just thinks it is.

The only emotion he showed following D’Day and our daughters diagnoses was anger shown whenever I did not comply with his entitlment and expectation. If I stood up for myself or insisted on boundries as I had spent our entir marriage doing just to stay sane, he would make it all about my need to control, and that my need for control was abuse towards him. Yes within a month of the diagnoses and two after d’day Ex declared himself the victim and because his cheating was being hidden by our church many believed his claims.

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

Thankful, I hope your child recovers fully from the cancer. (((HUGS))) to you both. And it’s really disgusting when church people believe and support the cheater. That happened to me too. 🙁 I hope you have people that supported you too and if not, hopefully you can find a new church where you are supported.

GracieD
GracieD
6 years ago
Reply to  champchump

A few years ago my STBX got himself embroiled in a court case over a dodgy business deal that I had begged him not to touch that could have resulted in us losing our home – again. I found that he hadn’t even put in a defense and worked day and night for over ten days to have a decent defense to present in court, and ended up having to present the evidence myself! The case was dismissed, but instead of thanking me he smirked and made fun of me saying ‘see all the panic and work for nothing, we won’. Thinking of it still makes me ill.

Natalia.B
Natalia.B
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

So scary Martha. Its only when you’re able to piece it altogether isn’t it, that things makes sense. Of course by then so much damage and emotional trauma has been caused

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Unfortunately, that’s true, Natalia. It takes getting out and then connecting all the dots over the years to figure out you were with someone disordered. It’s easy to shoo away something that seems *off* at the time, but when you start to add up all the *off* times, you see it was there all the time and it’s a bit scary to realize you were sharing your life with someone so deceptive and just plain weird at times.

Lady B
Lady B
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Can someone explain why psychos don’t have a startle response?
I noticed this with him, a very loud noise scared the crap out of me. I jump a mile, he didn’t even flinch, struck me as hell weird.
Another one is an empathy yawn, when you yawn often other people will, narcs won’t.

NeverAgain
NeverAgain
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady B

I think the amygdala (brain’s fear centre) is smaller in them.

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago
Reply to  NeverAgain

Mine had zero protective instinct. A few times I had to step up and physically defend my family from a threat, he’s a coward. The last time was when someone was in our backyard. I heard them scrabbling over the fence at night. He made no attempt to go and check it out. I went to see. I’m fierce like that! Sorry but men should be protective, it was at that point that I realised if we ever had a break in, he would do nothing to fight them!
He didn’t run away he just had no primal response it was fucking weird and the other time some crazy dude came running at our car he just sat there with the window rolled down, the guy had a baseball bat and my kids were in the car, freaking out. Luckily I had the wheel and stepped on the gas but Jesus what a fucking idiot, put the fucking window up.
Yes something missing upstairs for sure or fucked up for alcohol and drug abuse in his 20s.

Newme
Newme
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

Omg. Lady b mine was the same way on protective instinct. He had zero and he was a damn cop!! He talked a mean game but when it came down to it I was the one who had to do the protection. He once said he was going outside to “shut that shit down”. Next door neighbor was drag racing up and down street. He went outside and got in his truck and sat there. Then came inside after they stopped and said ” he took care of it”. Wtf?’

GracieD
GracieD
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

He would first mess up, then try to pretend nothing was happening. When the bailiffs came to the door I hadn’t a clue he’d remortgaged the house and maxed out credit cards I didn’t know existed to spend on the donkey f*ck. He let me go answer the door and hid behind the Sofa.

I made arrangements with them that he claimed were up to date but didn’t honour and he skipped town just before they returned, leaving me to face them alone again with two under-fives.

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago
Reply to  GracieD

What a fucker !
Mine racked up debt on c card, not in joint name thank god.
He once insisted we purchase a water feature, it was $1200 on his credit card, fortunately I stopped him. We are not high income and that was just stupid, he kept on and on about it like a spoilt teenager.
He made noises also about why was the mortgage co signed, didn’t I trust him with it, nope no I did not and have no doubt if he had the ability to he would have borrowed against it.
They are clueless wing nuts.

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady B

LadyB – uncanny. X also could not be startled. So weird. I would do the same thing, but you couldn’t come around a corner and scare him. Impossible. X could also turn the empathy yawn on and off. Sometimes he would do the yawn to be funny, most other times, no. The man had 0 in the empathy department.

Mally
Mally
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady B

OMG- not yawning, so true! I never picked up on that before! My STBXH would always smile, clap or nod his head in agreement if ever anything came up on tv about being a narc. He has absolutely no idea of the emotional and mental devastation he has caused to me and our now grown up children. Still awaiting decree absolute, hopefully before Xmas. Me and daughter finally moved out 7 weeks ago, it’s like we are new people!
And in that 7 weeks narc has made zero contact with daughter – not even a text to ask if she is ok or needs anything – but has managed to call me 4 times over money. He is a disgrace as a father and as a human. I’m here picking up my daughters and my pieces.
I have got a name for him:
Completely Unfaithful Narcissistic Twat.
Oh look, an anacronym! How did that happen…….!

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
6 years ago
Reply to  Mally

Malloy, ???????????? Love it!!

KarenE
KarenE
6 years ago
Reply to  Mally

Brilliant acronym, Mally!

But you’re still thinking a bit chumpishly; ‘he has absolutely no idea of the devastation …’.

Of course he KNOWS. He’s not stupid. He DOESN’T CARE.

Just trying to save you the veeeerrrrryyyyy long time it took me to figure this out about my narc cheater ex.

mally
mally
6 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Actually, he doesn’t know that I know about his secret double life – his secret sex life. I had enough on him for emotional and mental abuse to divorce and didn’t discover what he’d been up to unto a few weeks after id filed when I accidentally discovered the 250 sex tapes he’d filmed of himself with all manner of people, and found out he organised swingers parties in the local Travelodge, streams this live to the web and advertised himself as a rent boy on sex sites. By the time I discovered all this he had already said he wasn’t going to challenge the divorce and me and my lawyer kept the info as back up in case we needed leverage fir a good deal. Have not had to use it.
I have now known about his secret sex life, it is prolific, he is priapic, for 10 months and once the decree absolute is through and he’s coughed up money due to me, which wont be untill next May – its all listed in the financial agreement – then I’m going to let him know what I know. I’m probably doing a PowerPoint! I also recorded every conversation we had in the final 16 months of living with him ( took me several months to figure out if I was staying or going- so fucking obvious now) including recordings where he claims he has always been ‘loyal and committed to our relationship”!!! So gonna splice those snippets of his own voice onto PowerPoint alongside photos of where he’s been meeting up with hookers ( tracked him on his phone!!!) with heading ” who lives in a house like this?”
He is such a dumb ass he used his own email address as his user name on sex sites so I found him advertising himself on several!

Skinwalker
Skinwalker
6 years ago
Reply to  Mally

“Completely Unfaithful Narcissistic Twat”

I like that, Mally!

FindingBliss
FindingBliss
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady B

I’d love to know as well. I wonder if it’s because of the running dialogue in their heads where they are constantly asserting their superiority and rationalizing their past moves and future choices. Maybe they don’t see or hear these noises because of the preoccupation with this inner dialogue. My guess, anyway. The cheating ex in my life always seemed detached and living in his own mind. Well, when it came to family. He could be engaging as all heck with strangers and coworkers when deemed necessary.

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  FindingBliss

This >>”The cheating ex in my life always seemed detached and living in his own mind. Well, when it came to family. He could be engaging as all heck with strangers and coworkers when deemed necessary.”

My ex could detach in one second. Hot to cold overnight. And with our family he always seemed detached, but then could engage on family vacations. On one of our big family vacations just a few years ago, I watched him *in action* with a woman that he seemed attracted to. I was apprehensive about the excursion he wanted to take the family on (repelling down cliffs/mountains in Utah with our young children), but he sold me on the idea. He said it would be a “great family time that we would spend together doing new things.” What it turned out to be? The narc cheater attached himself to a German woman in her 20’s. Even before we went on the excursion, he was so into her. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing! He brought up his chair right next to her and was hanging on her every word. He even said to me, “Martha! She said we need to go to xyz! Look at this pictures!!” Now xyz was a place that I thought would be fun to take the kids, but when we were at home he said it “looked boring”. But when the German woman said it was wonderful, then it was wonderful!! I watched him the entire day show off for everyone and he’s not normally like that. He was the first to volunteer to repel. All eyes on the cheater who was so confident! He spent most of the ten hour day with the German woman, other people on the tour, taking pictures of everyone else the the tour and both of my kids said to me at different times, “Why is dad with those other people?” So it wasn’t me. Our kids saw it too and it wasn’t the first time he ditched his family for work and ho-workers (he spent most of his time at the Macy’s T-Day parade texting “friends”). The night that he spent the majority of the day with total strangers and not his family that he said he loved, we got into a fight about what happened that day. Of course he turned it all on me and said I was imaging things and turning things around. I barely slept that night and ended up walking the dark streets of a city that I had really no clue where I was, and I remember saying to myself, “I cannot do this anymore. It was the one and only time I said to myself that I wanted to divorce him.” But them I spackled the next day and put on a brave face and kept dancing to try to make him love me and love our kids. Men who cheat on their wife do not love their kids. They only love themselves.

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

Martha,
Your words are always so wise!
Men who cheat, they certainly don’t think of their wives, and kids. Hmmm, would that be the kids that you wanted, (meaning me), because ” they were never in his plan”.
Chumps, we can take the pain ourselves, but our children!That is a whole different story.
Makes me angry all over again.
Don’t fuck with my children. They didn’t bargain for this.

((((HugsNurseMartha)))

junglechump
junglechump
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

Huh… mine would often find people (strangers) he would connect to if we were on trips/vacations… he would get all hyper and talk to them excitedly about random stupid shit, I would feel as if I didnt exist anymore even if I would be sitting/standing right next to him… usually it would be buddies though… like men/friends (sometimes creepy) he would/could drink/hang with potentially kinda thing… I would feel so upset and lonely and invisible… even on our honeymoon he did this once andbobe trip to the Amazon he spent 80% of the time talking/hanging with the guides…

Dday was when I was pregnant and havent seen him since… I wonder if he would have done it around our daughter too, like you described with your kids.

junglechump
junglechump
6 years ago
Reply to  junglechump

And I too wandered/drove through streets at night in despair over this… even in venemous snake areas ????

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

This is why daughter hates Schmoopie so much. It has nothing to do with what was done to me (well, maybe a little). She sees ex giving stranger woman all of the love, admiration and attention she always craved from her dad and never received. And yet ex doesn’t understand all of the hostility towards Schmoopie. He thinks it is just me telling everybody bad things about her.

Natalia.B
Natalia.B
6 years ago
Reply to  FindingBliss

Lady B & Finding Bliss,

I don’t profess to be a psychologist but I did consult one at one stage to try to stop myself from going crazy. I think the low startle response is due how their brains are wired. It was explained to me as the same impaired emotional response which enables a lack of empathy and ability to lie with no conscience. I understand this is why they pass lie detector tests as their bodies don’t display the same emotional responses that would betray most of us.

We once went to the theatre to see Woman in Black. Everyone in the audience was screaming and laughing with hearts racing when the black cloaked ghost character suddenly appeared walking through the dimly lit aisles in the audience. My husband actually had an aisle seat and she floated right past him. He didn’t even flinch.

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Thanks Nat
Makes sense, he comes across as very calm all the time. Calm or angry. Not the full range of emotions most people have. I always had difficulty reading him, which is unlike me as I am extremely intuitive. I know why now. Cute animals and the like, nothing no going gaga.

Geode
Geode
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Mine had a big head too. I mean the actual circumference was really large. He had trouble finding hats that fit. Makes me shudder when I think about what was going on in that oversized head.

kiwichump
kiwichump
6 years ago
Reply to  Geode

The Traitor has a huge head!!! Always had so much trouble finding hats big enough, couldn’t find a bike helmet large enough to fit him. He would buy the largest size hat he could find then have to wet it and stretch it by fitting it over a 9 litre bucket and wait until it dried out to the new supersize. So I called him buckethead…

Torturednewmom
Torturednewmom
6 years ago
Reply to  kiwichump

This made me laugh for the first time in many months! Mine had a massive head too, our long time friends would joke that he needs to stand back a few metres in group photos for his head to look the same size.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  Geode

Wow, big head and lack of startle response also. He wouldn’t react on roller coasters even. WTH?

JeepTess
JeepTess
6 years ago
Reply to  Geode

Geode 😀 Thank you for the belly laugh! 🙂

satan has a huge head too! Hats are also a problem for him 😀

Makes me shudder when I think about what was going on in that oversized head.

This is hilarious! I was always wondering the same thing! 😀

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Same here. He knows what traits are “bad” so would never admit to having them. Funny before learning what npd is… I said to him years ago that he had no empathy. He said stop using all your big words and be a normal person. You’re speaking another language.
I took a test in 2015 answering as he would. It was actually well written and you really couldnt tell what the “bad” answers were. If he answered honestly he would get 100%. A one question test? No way. He would say what’s a Narcissist bc the word is too big. Then get scared it’s a bad thing and just deny it.

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago

WROHIS,
I think it is because YOU are the exact opposite of a narcacisst-sociopath.
Don’t let it trouble you, it’s just taking you longer.
He lost a gem in you!

sara
sara
6 years ago

WROHIT- I would be interested in seeing that quiz. Could you possibly post a link?

Skinwalker
Skinwalker
6 years ago
Reply to  sara

Same here. I would like to see how they worded that.

Yet I am afraid it would just start me down another skein to untangle.

Notice those bastards don’t twist their brains into pretzels about this shut? Grrrr!

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago
Reply to  Skinwalker

I think it was an online version of the Hare test. I’m trying to find the one I took for him. I remember there were a few questions that he might lie about because he’d know it’s “bad”… But for the most part they worded it in a way that it was hard to know how the answer would be scored. I never had him take it. Too risky. Its better they dont know that we know. I thought of 3 examples for each answer before choosing so I felt I was choosing an accurate answer.
Everytime a therapist told me he’s a narcissistic sociopath I switched therapists. I hunted for someone for years that would blame me and tell me to try harder. (I know… I’m a fool) Well it never happened. All of them told me im in serious danger. All of them said he’s not allowed in the building. I still have trouble fully accepting it and I have no clue why. It’s like I can’t fully grasp it which bothers me.

Martha
Martha
6 years ago

What Ring of Hell is This, That’s called “cognitive dissonance” when you have two different beliefs — he’s a narcissistic sociopath and/or the husband you thought he was (I’m not sure you actually think of him!). It took me a long time to accept my ex is really not the man I thought he was. Mine might be a narcopath too, however I don’t have the gift of him being diagnosed by a mental health professional. It takes awhile for you heart and mind to accept the truth, so don’t let it bother you. Keep coming back to Chump Lady. Reading everyone’s stories and having lots of “me too!” and “a-ha” moments while reading drove home the truth to my heart and mind. 🙂

Skinwalker
Skinwalker
6 years ago
Reply to  Skinwalker

*I meant to type shit and autocorrect doesn’t do potty mouth.

I have to turn that off again!

So Done
So Done
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Natalia,
Like your STBX, my STBX will never admit to being a narcissist. I told him that he is a narcissist, and he was offended. After supposedly “reading up” on narcissism, he informed me that there is no way he fits within that category. He also told me that he is not a pathological liar, which, of course, he most definitely is. I believe that his delusional, disordered way of thinking prevents him from seeing himself in anything other than an extremely positive light. Scary.

EMC
EMC
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

Right? Narcs who know they’re narcs and readily admit it….well, that’s easy to avoid…(Sometimes…blue eyes and lies anyone?)
But the covert victim narc who is entirely clueless, well that’s just a different kind of banging your head against the brick wall….

insistonhonesty
insistonhonesty
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

Gotta love when sociopaths insist that they are NOT x-title, despite DOING the things that make one x-title.

“I am NOT a thief!”

But um, you take great pleasure in the thrill of tucking small items you plan to steal into a large item you plan to buy. You talk about it, afterwards, in terms of how stupid the cashier was to not check the pockets of your new winter coat. That’s what thieves do.

“Well, it’s not like it’s my CAREER or anything. I didn’t SET OUT to steal! It’s not like I went in there with the intention of stealing those gloves and Smartwool socks… I just didn’t have a cart and tucked them inside and then I didn’t want to look like a thief, when I realized that the total was less than it should have been…”

Yeah- yeah you did, you big, Self-Spackling THIEF.

I was so judgey.

EMC
EMC
6 years ago

Holy Fuck!!! I remember when mine screamed at me, “I’m not a cheater!!!” RAOFLMFA!!!! This was after the affair came to light….uh, the 2nd one that I knew of…
All about their self-serving image…smh

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago
Reply to  EMC

They all think they are the exception. The term in AA is terminally unique.
Like hiring a prostitute for a week in Thailand is ok because you know … he treated her real well and she cried when he left.!!,, okkkk

Gorilla poop
Gorilla poop
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

Mine called from Burning Man to tell me he was going to a kink party and there would be “anal and genital stimulation.” He claims it wasn’t cheating because of 1) honesty and 2) not having intercourse. He insisted this gave him the credibility to demand an open marriage so he could further explore the world of kink without the constraints of monogamy. Meanwhile he thought he would get to keep ‘all the things’: My income (which was 3 times higher than his), the respect of his peers and family, 11 years of marriage, one house, two kids, and a dog. Nope. This was Dday 3 and I had gotten him to sign a post-nup 3 years earlier. Ex was a lawyer and never even read what I gave him to sign. Now it’s One year later, divorce is final, and he is still living in his parent’s basement trying to hide his double life from them, all in the name of living his “authentic self.” I recently told my therapist I thought he was a covert narc. She replied, “where do you get the covert from?”

D
D
6 years ago
Reply to  Gorilla poop

Actually laughed so hard I snorted (for me … A definite sign of a good chuckle) when I read your therapist’s response and got to the word ‘covert’. That’s a keeper!

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  EMC

Mine said, “I am not cheating on you. I have moved on. If we could get divorced in 24 hours, you wouldn’t call it cheating. You use whatever terms you like to make yourself look better and me look bad.” This was just a few days after I found out he had been cheating on me for the previous 2 months (that I knew of) and just a month after our baby was born.

Gonegirl
Gonegirl
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

Mine will never admit it. To him, being a narcissist is normal, it’s everyone else who has the problem.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Gonegirl

THIS^^

NPD or Borderlines are typically the type of people who own up to their problems and seek help and you know… stop using people.

Good Riddance
Good Riddance
6 years ago
Reply to  Gonegirl

Oh yeah, this is mine too. And his wife. They make a good team, they do.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago
Reply to  Gonegirl

Same. Mind would never admit to it and would say “you think too much.”

geden
geden
5 years ago
Reply to  Keepin Calm

My ex MIL said exactly the same thing to me…hereditary? My XW never apologized for anything and explained it away as telling me “I didn’t think you cared”.

Skinwalker
Skinwalker
6 years ago
Reply to  Keepin Calm

That’s a favorite comment of mine too.

Skinwalker
Skinwalker
6 years ago
Reply to  Skinwalker

* “You think too much.”

leann
leann
6 years ago
Reply to  Skinwalker

I was always told that I think to much!! That was our problem my thinking!!! Not his 9 year affair….

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
6 years ago
Reply to  Skinwalker

OMG!!! I got ‘you think too much’ too!

And he had a particularly annoying and incomprehensible retort that it was me ‘doing mental masturbation’. What the eff does that mean????? Coming from one who physically masturbated like clockwork daily, it was truly irksome.

What a dope POP was…. (POP—Predatory Opportunistic Parasite)

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago
Reply to  Keepin Calm

Mine said I was a narc when I said he might be!

Sorrynotsorry
Sorrynotsorry
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

Mine also said the same thing. He even read books on it! Crazy! He in no way, shape or form thinks that he is the narc. He is pretty perfect in his mind and will let you know it!

Isn’t it funny how they are all the same? Not original at all.

Dulcie
Dulcie
6 years ago
Reply to  Sorrynotsorry

Mine was, you keep going in circles. Um, maybe because your shit doesn’t make sense?

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

I just wrote a post below before I read yours, Lady B. Mine did the exact same thing. They are all so textbook!

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

Ah, yes. The “I’m rubber, you’re glue” defense.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago
Reply to  Lady b

Of course he would. They are such absolute jerks.

Fstl
Fstl
6 years ago

Not to be confused with telling someone they’re a narcissist. In that case they’ll deny it and insist instead that you’re a narc/compulsive liar/whatever they’re projecting

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  Fstl

Fstl,
Spot on! I found a search on my avoidant narc’s browser for How to tell if You’re Being Manipulated after I sent him packing post Dday3. That’s right: he’s the victim. Gotta love ’em…nah, leave ’em!

Ceri
Ceri
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpDiva

I dont know what it is with them. Mine actually told me I was abusive and I became so afraid to say anything that would “hurt” him that I stopped questioning… Apparently my calling every afternoon after work to ask what he wanted for dinner researching and learning how to make special meals and never ever asking again who he was on the phone with for hours at 2 in the morning was abusive. Who knew?

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
6 years ago
Reply to  Ceri

Ceri, I did the same. Called after work inquiring when to expect him for dinner, researched and created culinary masterpieces. Only to be yelled at “Non of your business! You don’t have the right to be asking such questions! Stop controlling all aspects of my life, and now work!”

No, I don’t miss that at all! And it’s really disturbing that I thought my life with him (walking on eggshells and feeling anxiety all the time) was somehow better than my pre-married life (surrounded with loving family and friends in another country). Why…

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Fstl

Fsti that’s right! And then after that they will never admit it when asked a one-question Narc test, either.

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
6 years ago

Mine repeated endlessly that he was a narcissist. He boasted that he was. He was the King – this is how his mom used to call him when he was growing up “My King”. Statements like ” I am the lion of this jungle and whoever wants to be around me has to abide by my rules” meant to pick me dance for wifey and OW’s. And we all did. Now that I removed myself from his jungle and on the way to divorce, it’s me who is the narcissist and egoistic and thinks only about myself. You can’t win.

NotMyFault
NotMyFault
6 years ago
Reply to  Longtimechump

Before “DDay” I had actually bought a book on Narcissism that had a test within it. (I obviously was concerned about HIM.) Well, he took the test and claimed that I was the Narcissist. I have also heard that word coming from my 32 year old sons mouth (to other people about me)…I wonder where he heard that? Yes, not only did my ex plan his DDay while having a six year affair but he plotted to poison me to my son, because obviously ne needed troops on his side for when it all hit the fan!

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Longtimechump

X had this same mindset. His mom called him “My Boy” and petted his hair and turned into this weird teenage lovey person when my X was around. X never balked at this, another weird no empathy kind of behavior with me where he projected onto me that I was the one being weird about it and that nothing weird was going on. These things were always my problem. It was always this really hard to understand circular logic with X. Anything he would do was projected onto me and it was my problem. He didn’t have any problems! He was the all knowing, intelligent one. Good grief, it is so good to be away from this crazy talk!

violet
violet
6 years ago
Reply to  Longtimechump

Those words sounds eerily like how the Las Vegas shooter was described by his brother! Seriously, he was “the king” and demanded that he be treated as such. He definitely was a malignant narcissist/psychopath, making claims about his superiority to mere mortals. I think most people underestimate the dangerousness of such people (obviously), but for those of us who have ever dealt with one, we know to stay far, far away.

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
6 years ago
Reply to  violet

Violet, this got me scared. StBX is expected in Canada this week “to discuss our issues and reach a mutually satisfying agreement” – his words. He has been actively ignoring my lawyer to react to the separation agreement and has put ridiculous conditions forward. The agreement which my lawyer prepared stipulates a shared custody with our son living primarily with me since STBX lives in another country. I gave him all christmases in his country with our son (9yo) but the summer vacation is shared equally. He also visits durung the year at which time son spends time with him at my MIL”s place. Now son is expected to spend this christmas with him in his country (middle east). First time without me. And I am scared for his safe return. Unfortumately I consulted with a few lawyers and they all told me I have no strong case to justify for a sole custody and no travel with his dad especially because there is a 6-year history of such travels…gray rocking all this time.

ClearWaters
ClearWaters
6 years ago
Reply to  Longtimechump

LTC, I am so worried for you. I am checking out today’s blog at a late hour and your post stood out. Be careful and I hope your child is safe. Keep us posted. PS: I would not meet personally, just lawyers.

sara
sara
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

This worries me as well. I grew up in the Middle East and in those days, there was no legal recourse if your husband decided to take your child to the country I grew up in and keep him or her there. Perhaps ask an international family law attorney beforehand? Prayers to you and your child.

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
6 years ago
Reply to  sara

Sara, there is no legal recourse these days as well. The country in question is not the signatory to the Hague convention governing international custody. I totally lost sleep over it. Everybody around me tells me he does not need this hassle to get into child rearing. He has a good and comfy life with travels and he won’t give it up. But who knows what’s in his head. I am talking to my lawyer tomorrow.

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  sara

LONGTIMECHUMP

My sister in law won full physical custody of her 3 young daughters 15 years ago. Then her ex husband, (from the Middle East) took them out of country for a “family visit”. Then he & the girls disappeared. She searched HARD…

She testified in front of Congress , and on Larry King, fighting for international recognition of US custody arrangements.

Her inlaws had a business in the USA. So she and her supporters began protesting in front of that business, which cost the business money. In time & after so much heartache, her inlaws told her where to find the girls.

Then she travelled overseas to a refugee camp, where they’d been hidden, brainwashed, & God only knows, for 18 months.

It’s now been 15 years. Two of the girls are mostly healed… I would never let the kids out of country without consulting how enforceable the arrangement is.

In other words, Assume he will not comply. So then what?

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
6 years ago

This is crazy. But it’s what keeps me up at 3am…

Then There Was Me
Then There Was Me
6 years ago
Reply to  violet

Mine referred to others as “those Little People” as in they were toys in his life.

SuperDuperChump
SuperDuperChump
6 years ago

Those Buckeyes might have an awesome football team every year…..but why didn’t those sorry fucks tell me this shit when I was about to ask Douchebag Debbie out on a date in 1985? If I had just known she was a narcissist, I could have turned a ran……in my parachute pants and Motley Crue shirt.

Janet
Janet
6 years ago

Hi there fellow chumps 🙂

My cheater had cheated in his last relationship (his only other long term relationship) years before he met me. I’ve never met or talked to the poor girl, but I wish she would’ve told me… if she ever thought about it, I don’t know. He was very, very good at covering up who he was and I honestly had no idea. He pulled such similar shit in both relationships it’s scary. The cheating (as far as I know) didn’t start until a few years in but I was being abused long before that. I know it’s easy to spackle but it’s so much easier to get out sooner in the relationship. If I knew what he was capable of, I’d like to think I would’ve left and saved myself years of heartache </3

ANC
ANC
6 years ago
Reply to  Janet

Me too.

Weird the cheater really sees no correlation between their other relationships where they were a cheater and being a cheater in a marriage.

Beth
Beth
6 years ago

Lifelong Buckeye fan here. My ex was doing his undergrad at OSU when we started dating. It pains me to admit it but if these researchers had been around back in 1982 and had told me that based on their study my ex was a covert narc, I would’ve spackled right over that shit and kept right on going down the same path. Just like I did for every other scarlet (and gray) flag that was waving in front of me. ????

TKO
TKO
6 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Yes, me too. Even as I researched this stuff to understand what the hell was going on, and finally came to “know” disorders pretty deeply, I kept meeting new instances of the tactics and behaviours with an almost stunned disbelief. These creatures have no shame. Had I been given this assessment tool before this experience I know I’d have dismissed it as beneath me…”I’m too shrewd a reader of people to need this stuff”. And even if I had identified someone as a narc, I’d have rationalized into them a nuanced version of it where they’re still good at heart. Perhaps a better tool would have been a single question to help reveal to myself what an easy mark I was.

Paintwidow
Paintwidow
6 years ago
Reply to  Beth

This is also another example of why trying to talk to the OW is a bad idea.
1.If she was the affair partner….than fuck her, she deserves what she gets.
2. It screws with your NC, which I’m not willing to do.
But that aside…
I wonder though about the woman that comes AFTER the relationship with the AP implodes ( it’s a matter of time, although I wish they would stay together). I felt bad for that woman. The poor woman that comes after the AP that just wandered into what she thinks is a harlequin romance only to ultimately discover it’s her worst nightmare.
She would never listen to me and it would be dismissed as the ranting of a jealous or bitter ex, but I would love to save her this heartbreak.
Like watching somebody walk into oncoming traffic and be powerless to stop them.

Hurt1
Hurt1
6 years ago
Reply to  Paintwidow

Ex’s affair with a subordinate (divorced with 5 kids but no custody) imploded soon after discovery. I have had NC in 6 years – divorced 5 years. Heard through the grapevine at 54 he married a 30 year old Catholic school teacher. I can only imagine the tales he told her.

TKO
TKO
6 years ago
Reply to  Paintwidow

I would tell her about him nonetheless. Simply point out calmly some basic details to at least alert her what this guy is capable of. Describe how long it went on and some of the deceptions he perpetrated as he went about the affair. Get in front of his tactic of smearing you as crazy by telling her this is how he’ll try to evade the underlying facts. Then you’ve done all you can do and it’s up to her. Go right back to NC. But I would have wanted that information so I could factor it into my decisions. For me, being alerted the person is a cheater would’ve been much more effective than being told how to assess narcissism.

Morse
Morse
6 years ago
Reply to  TKO

I’m ashamed to say (with hindsight) that I was the 10 years after his marriage brake up/divorce “other woman” who innocently walked into his path. I was warned – by THREE people and still managed to spackle over those giant red flags.

Also he told me who he was… with both his actions and his words.

Honestly, for so long I badly wanted to warn the women that have/will come after me but that would mean breaking NC and I’m not prepared to go there. His ‘MO’ is vulnerable recently divorced or widowed middle aged women (I was widowed). He smeared his ex’s, during the love bomb then glorified them during the discard (triangles people!).

Geode
Geode
6 years ago
Reply to  Morse

I agree with you Morse. The OW (next victim) contacted me and I didn’t respond. I vowed to go strict No Contact and wasn’t going to break that for her. Plus her emails included some of his syntax and I was pretty sure he was involved too, trying to pry information from me. Any how, OW them contacted the fiancé who came before me. And even though she got the truth of both of our awful experiences with him, OW is still with him today.
I’m so happy I didn’t break No Contact.

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
6 years ago
Reply to  Paintwidow

I agree, Paintwidow….

The main whore that cheaterpants tumbled with for several years was on to her 10 or 20th other bed-buddy by the time I ‘got the hell out of Dodge’! So, she was not really available to cheaterpants full-time, so he had to locate new supply. Plus, main OW has 5 children now, and you can not fit that many on a Harley!!

So, the woman who wandered into his ‘sights’ next was totally innocent of any real wrongdoing against our marriage or against me. She does not know me. He told her he was divorced (NOT!) She, too, was a target, really.

Thankfully, she figured it out fairly quickly & has broken up with cheaterpants.

And, no, we can not tell them, warn them. Even if they are OK, normal ladies. If they do not know about character disorders, they will be blinded like we were.

Love hearing your experiences and wisdom, Paintwidow……ForgeOn!!!

junglechump
junglechump
6 years ago
Reply to  ForgeOn!

How does someone with four or cive kids even find time for an affair???!!!

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
6 years ago
Reply to  junglechump

I hear ya!! Took all my time and energy just dealing with one child.

In my situation, that’s how this skank ended up with this many children!!! We have to remember we are dealing with freaks here. Not the sane parent. Freaks ALWAYS find time to cheat! Nothing is more important than their wants & needs, not even the cries of a sick or injured child…..

Whore-niece & cheaterpants would meet while oldest children were at day-care or father’s house & infant was napping to do ‘the nasty’.

As the children got older, they all went to respective father’s homes all at once. Left the whore the ‘freedom’ to boink whoever dared to get near her.

Sickos all……ForgeOn all you sane parents!!

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  ForgeOn!

I’m entering the dating world ever so carefully. If the ex wife of a man I was starting to date, “warned” me, I would back the fuck away from him and take a really good look. (Of course, I’d have looked at the relationships he has with his kids, too.)

Even if I thought the “ex wife is crazy mean”, who needs THAT in their life?? I have had enough cray cray for a lifetime. No more drama, thanks. I was married to a relentlessly selfish man, who lied & created chaos in our family for decades.

I guess I’ll add this to my “must haves” in a new man;

No crazy ex, and no warnings from an ex – that might be valid.

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago

meant to say “relentlessly selfish narcissist who lied & cheated, etc”

I hope the narc traits are not hereditary, b/c I have 3 kids. Shit.

DemHoez
DemHoez
6 years ago

Ah, I was using, “Why do you like being an inept asshole?”. No wonder my study wasn’t getting good results.

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  DemHoez

Ha ha ha! I used that one to DemHoez. Who knew that merely changing the words from asshole to narcissist would yield better results.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  DemHoez

I tried “stupid selfish prick” and he didn’t agree with that one either. Go figure.

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago

The statement he made which most aptly fits here is a beauty he let loose in the minivan once:

“I am never wrong!”

and he seemed to actually believe that. Dont normal people understand that they actually make mistakes on occasion? His rages normally followed him making errors, not huge errors, normal mistakes.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Minivans must be the place for this sort of proclamation. Mine? While visiting his grandparents in Kentucky for their 70th (SEVENTIETH) wedding anniversary, he was getting frustrated because he couldn’t find a barrista who would sell him just a half-pound of coffee beans (y’know because he was the only one who knew how to grind them properly, and he wanted them FRESH, goddamit…), so as he was driving around, he stated, “You know, I think I’m better than pretty much everyone around here.” Gobsmacked, I turned to the other witness in the car, his brother-in-law, who also looked as if he couldn’t believe what he’d just heard, so I asked XH to repeat it. He did, happily. I said, “Do you really believe that?” He thought a half-second and said, “Yeah, yeah I do.”

But if I’d’ve called him a narcissist, he’d’ve denied it, having learned that “narcissist” is a dirty word, but a guy who thinks he’s better than everyone else around him is, evidently, fine & dandy.

kb
kb
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

While I still think my ex is more on the BPD than the NPD side of the Cluster Bs, I will never forget how hard I spackled over his self-reference as “the son of [his name].” This was so weird and so disturbing to hear. I’m from a liturgical church, and I picked up on the Christ reference immediately. Of course, he said it with a smile and a laugh, but I think that was window-dressing for the fact that he really did feel as if he were superior to all others, both morally and intellectually.

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Leans over me puts hands on my shoulders (like a parent does when trying to beg a child to behave ) gives a little shake… “why don’t you listennnnnn to meeee? How many times do I need to tell youuu!? I’m never wrong! Im never f@cking wrong! I know what people do. I could do everyone’s jobs! I know what’s going to happen. And then you go and try it your way. If you just listened to me this could have been done already! Just forget it. You f@ck everything up. I shouldn’t let you do anything.” Looks at me with disgust as he’s stamping away “if I want something done right I have to do it myselffff! I could run circles around you assholes. What a waste!”
*I was trying to buy a new router.???????? I came home to tell him which ones they had to make sure he was happy with the one I was buying. The crime… going to a store with idiots in it when I should have gone to the store with non-idiots.

To me this sounds like a Narcissist. Am I too sensitive????and I just don’t know this is how men speak to their wives? Bc that was his defense… grow up be an adult woman. You’re too sensitive. Do it right the first time and you won’t light my fire.

OtherRebecca
OtherRebecca
6 years ago

This is someone actively working against your sense of self-worth, self confidence, belief than you can intelligently solve problems and even against your perception of realty.
This person does not have your best interest at heart.
I hope you are no contact now or very soon.
(((Hugs)))

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago

I always got the worst treatment whenever my STBX did do something wrong. If I called him out on it, he would immediately turn the tables on me so I would look like the one in the wrong. He would never apologize or try to make changes. He just turned the focus on me as the problem.

Cancer Chump
Cancer Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Same. Because of it, no issue was ever resolved. I tried to not even bring things up because when I did, it would turn into an argument that would leave me feeling absolutely drained.

FreeNow
FreeNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Cancer Chump

Circular arguments that never reached resolution unless I accepted the blame. I don’t miss him or his entitled and excuse and blaming personality.

I was gaslighted so long it’s taken me almost two years to clear my mind and see my way forward.

I highly recommend an excellent counselor knowledgeable in narcissist/sociopath speak/abuse and neuro feedback. I went from collapsed, sobbing, full of cancer literally to recovering happy, joy-filled and loving person no longer lost from years of abuse.

At first I didn’t recognize myself and was scared but now feel inner sunlight being through my broken-put-back-together pieces. My spine is reconstructed from fire forged steel and my soul feels an aliveness I haven’t felt for years.

Thank you Chump Nation for your love, support and encouragement!!!

Next up cancer re-check in one week. I am optimistic for my first NED (no evidence of disease) result in two years. Please keep your fingers and toes crossed for me.

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeNow

Crossing everything I can and wishing you well!!!!!

kiwichump
kiwichump
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeNow

Crossing my toes, one foot over the other for you, FreeNow.

Battle-tempered Lionheart
Battle-tempered Lionheart
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeNow

Just now I tried to cross my toes to see if it was possible. 🙂

Battletempered Lionheart
Battletempered Lionheart
6 years ago
Reply to  Cancer Chump

Exactly, me too. I don’t bring up grievances any more because it just ends in a shit avalanche on my head about how much I suck.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what he wants. Fortunately, once my ducks are in a row I am so out of here.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago

WROHIT: what you describe is extremely disturbing domestic abuse. Chilling.

I hope you are completely NC now and healing from that. Huge hugs.

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago

Why the heck do I get teary eyed when someone validates me. Motherchumper99 it’s like a gift to my soul. Hugs back to you. I wrote down everything he said that seemed like DV. As I’m typing this he’s texting me. I stopped responding a few weeks ago. I honestly want to throw my whole phone away when he texts me. Puts a sick feeling right through my body.

Onwards
Onwards
6 years ago

WROHIT glad you have found CN and gone NC. Might it be possible to block your X on your phone? The forum has posts about healing after time with narcs. Know that you didn’t cause that disorder and can’t cure it, and that it gets better being free to decide, choose, and enjoy without criticism and control. (accusations of being too sensitive, and demands to control decisions and complaints that X had to do it himself sound all too familiar). #betteroffoutofthat

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago

Whatring, You are not too sensitive. You are a woman who believed things your narc husband said to you. We’ve all been there. Now you are waking up to the reality of how disordered your STBX is. And no, good husbands don’t speak to their wives like that. Thank god you are away from him – your stories make my blood boil for you.
(PS being sensitive is actually a good character trait – he just gaslighted you into thinking you are overly sensitive which is seen as a bad character trait. POS.)

kiwichump
kiwichump
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

I cried for months at my new job last year, because I was getting paid minimum wage to clean and scrub and people were saying please, and thank you, and smiling. From the first night it hit me that I was being treated with respect, I cried every time I was at work realising this way the way people treat each other and what I had been living at home was the opposite. Cried with relief that my gut feel that I was treated like a scullery maid, like Cinderella in my own home was true, cried with sadness that I had accepted it for so long.

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago
Reply to  kiwichump

I’m hearing you Kiwi. We need to surround ourselves with these people who are grateful and humble and we can all be in a good place. So many good people in the world and the bad can hang out with their own kind and do dumb stuff together!

sara
sara
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

I cry as well when people are nice to me. Embarrassing at times but cathartic. I am just not used to it! Hope to get there one day.

Hugs to you!

Ceri
Ceri
6 years ago
Reply to  sara

I still don’t know how to handle a compliment. Mine made me doubt my own memory, he convinced me that I couldnt handle anything without him. My biggest sin I wouldnt let the dude with no job who played video games all day handle my paycheck or bank account. I am total nc right now. My suggestion.. Change your number and if you absolutely need to contact him email or get a texting app. You dont owe him anything and he has no right to continue to abuse you further

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
6 years ago

Cry your eyes out, Whatringohellisthis. I agree 100% with MotherChumper99.

Kudos for escaping that hell hole.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

Yes and don’t blame yourself. You can’t see the design of a maze when you are in it, only when you are out and above it does it become clear.

Rae44
Rae44
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

This reminded me if something my cheater said. Our son was being a sore loser and i said to H “i wasnt like that at all as a child does he get that from you?”. His answer “no, i never lose”….just remembered that from at least 10 years ago….

Ohana
Ohana
6 years ago
Reply to  Rae44

Mine had a mantra that he would make me repeat: “[Cheater’s name] is always right.” He would say it whenever we were in a situation where he was proved right. Idiot me thought it was a silly joke, like his ironic way of feeling good when it was his turn to get something right. Nope — this was exactly how he was trying to brainwash me into seeing him. I can’t believe I went along with it as much as I did.

Newlady15
Newlady15
6 years ago
Reply to  Ohana

Mine said ” do you know who I am” like he was sooo superior.. gag!

Shechump
Shechump
6 years ago
Reply to  Newlady15

Mine fancied himself as a ‘Wizard’, finding a big sign to put up outside his home office. Nobody Gets In To See The Wizard – no way no how. Talk about yanking off his curtain one day and seeing how the emperor wore no clothes…not even a cape.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

My stbx’s version of never wrong, know everything was “I’ve Been around the world twice and talked to everybody once.” Ha ha. (Sarcasm on ha ha)

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

DOCTOR’s favorite brag was “I’ve never failed at anything in my life”

which is a real stunner, given the givens.

Guess he meant that he “always got his way, and if not, there’d be hell to pay.”

Hey, that rhymes.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

And banged a few along the way.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago

???????????? Perfect addition!

Beth
Beth
6 years ago

My ex never copped directly to bring a narcissist but he openly talked about his lack of empathy while I, Chump that I was, was happy that I had enough empathy for both of us. Knowing what I knew, I shouldn’t have been surprised that he didn’t understand or care about the pain his serial cheating, lying and stealing caused me and our children and yet I was. Not any more. No reason to touch the rancid skein. I trust that he sucks.

carmella1722
carmella1722
6 years ago
Reply to  Beth

My narc and the OW bragged about their lack of empathy as though that was part of what made them both so superior, and so ‘meant to be’. OW said “I guess I was born without the empathy gene.” Mind you she said this about the death of her 9 year old niece. So narcissistic is she that she couldn’t handle the family getting all the attention for their horrific grief.

Beth
Beth
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

The flavor of shit sandwich? Yep.

Jgirl
Jgirl
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Funny, during reconciliation I liked to listen to this song by Drake, that goes “I love me enough for the both of us”. I found it sadly fitting to my situation, as in, if I stay, I need to love myself to compensate what’s lacking from him.

Chumpzilla
Chumpzilla
6 years ago
Reply to  Jgirl

Ha! I used to tell my ex that we stayed together because of the one big thing we had in common: we both loved him more than anything or anyone else.

Come to think of it, he never disagreed with me…

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Chumpzilla

I thought I could “Love him through it” which meant forgive (AND FORGET??) everything and spackle spackle spackle

dance dance dance and grab the neglected angry daughter and make her do the spackle dance too!!

Mortified. The only shame I really have, (as opposed to the shame he heaped on me)

is that I didn’t divorce the prick the first time he pulled this shit (that I know of, at least).

Maybe my youngest would be healthier. Ugh.

Yes, regrets abound.

nomar
nomar
6 years ago

I suspect this theory may be truer of male narcs than female. Male narcs can cast their narc behavior as that if a “self-starter,” “proactive, that if an “alpha male.” They can even parlay that characterization into huge rewards, say, as CEO or the presidency. Women who do anything similar will be cast as “femi-Nazis,” b*tches,” and worse.

My cheating ex-wife certainly believes herself smarter and better than everyone around her, but I never heard he say that. Her MO was to bat her eyes, polish a veneer of sweetness, and then silently do whatever selfish, hurtful thing she wanted.

UXworld
UXworld
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

There is a flip side — see my item below

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Nowdeadcheater was convinced that his lack of kindness and empathy was a direct result of his superior intellect that was thrust upon him like a burden. He reflected that his somewhat daft brother and cousin were such nice, decent people because they weren’t burdened with his level of intelligence. Please.

Battle-tempered Lionheart
Battle-tempered Lionheart
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

I just barfed on my smartphone.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Mine told our son that everything would be bettr “if more people thought like me.”
My brilliant son turned to him and replied, “No one thinks like you do.”

Now, cheaterpants shares this when he speaks publicly, as an example of a lesson he has learned from soneone else’s perception of him, but change? Nah…jyst stopped saying that, not thinking it, it appears.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Great point Nomar about the different gender lenses on selfishness…

When I was still untangling that Rancid Skein (awesome new phrase Beth), I poured over the literature on selfishness and high conflict personalities. I found Bill Eddy’s descriptions of female and male high conflict personalities enlightening, as were the descriptions of Cluster Bs in Lundy Bancroft’s “why does he do that?”

The more information I gathered, the more I understood that my marriage had been dead for way longer than I would ever know… And that the only way forward with my X was a shared custody software and a super detailed divorce decree. Done and done, and onward to Meh!

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

True nomar, probably is easier for a male to get away with it in our culture. If they get too outrageous, their is always the I was just joking out. The kids and I have been talking about some of the unkind things stbx and his dad would frequently say but if confronted- I was kidding or lighten up.., one was: “look me in the eye, do you see anyone that cares?” He was joking, yeah, right.

Battletempered Lionheart
Battletempered Lionheart
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Wow, Feeling It. That is a truly remarkable quotation. It reminds me of the saying “when people tell you who they are, believe them the FIRST time.”
It’s just so far out of our realm of possibility that it blindsides us and we spackle.
It is as if we file it away in the “inexplicable” folder because we don’t have a “he’s an asshole” folder.
Well, I do now. File transfer complete.

lyndaloo
lyndaloo
6 years ago

BTL, this is so true! When I was first dating STBX he said to me one evening “you won’t like me once you get to know me” he had been love bombing me and I thought it was just some silly insecurity thing. Well guess I should have believed him.

Let go
Let go
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Over the years I have found, in any situation where you feel manipulated, silence is truly golden. No eye twitches, no shrugging, nothing. Just silence. Gray rocking is so much more powerful than people really understand until they do it. If you don’t respond it takes their power away. The problem with narcissists is it they will up the game. If they cannot get a reaction from you one way they will another. That is when, if silence does not work, you leave. Keeping you as a victim becomes their power source.

I think women use an entirely different way when they are narcissists. My grandmother was never diagnosed as one but her ability to manipulate and destroy her children was epic. It was all done with sweet words. It was all done with soft words and voice. None of her children ever saw what she was doing to them but all of the in-laws and all of the grandchildren did. None of us could ever get our loved ones to see what she was really like. It explains so much about why people get so damaged by parents. It is because it is a biological necessity to have love and approval from your parents. When they are withheld or given in scattered doses a child has no frame of reference and it begins to make him crazy. “Oh look there’s Johnny. No one can understand why he has such horrible behaviors when he has such nice parents.” You take that into your adult life and that is all you know. A narcissist is there love bombing you, and you respond, and the next thing you know you’re tied into another crazy making situation. On the other hand you come from a healthy family, and have no frame of reference. A narcissist love bombs you and you think this must be true love so you are in a crazy making situation. No one wins with a narc. The only solution is to leave.

Tracy, this is why you need to be on tv. Our culture is manufacturing narcissists at an alarming rate.

Battletempered Lionheart
Battletempered Lionheart
6 years ago
Reply to  Let go

Amen, LetGo. Amen.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  Let go

Let go,
“Tracy, this is why you need to be on tv. Our culture is manufacturing narcissists at an alarming rate.”
…perfect truth, there, Let go. Great post.

Let go
Let go
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpDiva

The problem with trying to explain all of this to an outsider is because it sounds so petty. One incident or two or even 20 do not make a narcissist. A lifetime of them when you never know if down is up or up is down makes you crazy. My poor, poor father thought his mother hung the moon. There was never just one incident. There was just a lifetime of little things, tiny things, that added up to poison.

My brother’s little family was abandoned by his wife. Her childhood was awful. She could have told him she was unhappy. Instead she left and never came back and damaged a good man and sweet children. That is why I can’t forgive her. The only word I can use to describe someone who deserts children is narcissist.

TKO
TKO
6 years ago
Reply to  Let go

This is SO dead on. There are some truly devastating people who deliver their poison wrapped in honey. You have described it well. They are the most hidden and dangerous variant of NPD.

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

The “Inwasnjust kidding and if you push me on this then you are the jerk, not me” was his “go to excuse” for everything

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Good point. I think the public view of female narcissism also still swirls misguidedly around vanity. Women are both expected in many quarters to meet and maintain a standard of beauty and then are criticized as narcissistic if they are particularly proud of having done so. Vanity might be a problem at times, but it just isn’t toxic the way narcissism is.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago

In 2015, I was trying to talk to cheater about my feelings (in other words beating my head against the wall) and it escalated into me yelling at him and calling him a fucking narcissistic bastard. To my knowledge, this is the only time these words ever grazed my lips toward him. Meanwhile, unbeknownst to me , he was cheating on me. He did not tell me at the time that he was particularly offended at my remarks but since he left, in 2016, he has made numerous references to this statement and how much it hurt him. He told my daughter: one can only take so much of being called some form of a fucking narcissistic bastard. It happened once. I think it echoed in his head so many times, he now believes I said it dozens of time. The irony is that out of all the things I ever said, that is the one he can’t shake. He told me much later, the next day he was driving and had to pull over on the side of the road because it made him cry.

The one that resonates with me is after he left we had one of several meetings at a restaurant and I told him 12 yo son had said he thought stbx had left because he couldn’t handle being a dad. I expected him to be appalled and want to fix that but instead he calmly said “he’s right” if he includes being a husband and head of the family. WTF?

Another reveal when he was leaving after a dinner shortly after he moved out was his statement: I can stay here and be miserable or I can leave and have my kids hate me. He chose the latter.

They really do know who they are.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

At the risk of attempting to untangle the skein of fuckupedness with Mr. Twatwaffles, I wonder if the motivation behind shacking up with his can of Alp-Ho and her three kids and knocking her up isn’t an attempt to prove even though he’s a shitty man to me, he’s somehow a good enough guy to be “dad of the year” and that the problem was actually me and MY kids who came with me. He’s convinced he loves his own flesh and blood, they aren’t the problem. Just me and my brats who dared to look at him cross eyed by not believing his bullshit. And Alp-Ho and her brats will be better because they will be able to actually “appreciate” him.

Gah. Nothing but time can reveal it for what it is.

All I can say is that he better get a paternity test in the new bun. I’m betting she had goodbye sex with her ex just before their divorce was final… just because they’re such good friends.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

I once told ex that I didn’t care for one of the movies he had picked out after we watched it. I said this one time about one movie and I always let him pick the movies because he never liked the ones I picked out. During MC he said that we had to stop watching movies together because I made it clear that I didn’t like his choices. That was the first I had heard why we stopped watching movies together.

We have to be so careful with their fragile egos. They at so sensitive, but we are not allowed to be sensitive too.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Mine told my son that some people just aren’t cut out to be married and have a family. He then moves right in with OW and they then get a puppy together. We should just stop listening to anything they say. They simply say whatever sounds good in a moment. It is so messed up and disordered that it is a waste of mental energy to try and decode it. Just trust they suck.

kiwichump
kiwichump
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Long heart to heart talk during wreckonciliation, or so I thought. The Traitor says he thinks he has come to realise during this time that he is meant for serial monogamy, we should live apart for a while, he needs to be alone. He was cheating at the time and move in with the Whore into her grandmother’s house. Serial monogamy and time alone, my arse. And DD1 had been his demand for a menage a trois. They do say whatever sounds good in the moment.

FMT
FMT
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

“He told me much later, the next day he was driving and had to pull over on the side of the road because it made him cry.”

Dollars to donuts he did no such thing, but he *feels* like he did because he told you so. My shithead cheater pulled the same thing. I came home one day just after D-day and he met me on the stairs saying, “I cried today.” With the whole sad sausage face and slumped shoulders, and etc. etc.

Lol. “I cried today.”

It’s a way to perform remorse without actually feeling it. A kind of emotional lip-sync. If he ever really pulled over and cried, I’d eat my hat.

ANC
ANC
6 years ago
Reply to  FMT

Asshole has never cried. Not even during my chumpiest in MC when the MC asked if he cried. Even when I cried infront of the MC,asshat displayed zero emotion.

These people are empty.

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  ANC

I realize now, the few tears he shed were crocodile tears used to play sad sausage and manipilate me.

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreEvil

Oops, typo – manipulate

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  FMT

There is a revelation FMT! He told me he pulled over on one of the busiest 8 lane roadways in the country and I always had the image in my mind of great danger. I bet you are right it never actually happened- thanks for that!

FMT
FMT
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Ask yourself if *you* would pull over to cry on an 8-lane freeway because someone hurt your feelings. And you’re a normal person!

Hahaha, this shit just kills me.

You ever hear William Shatner do “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds”? Well, your ex is to hurt-feelings tears as Shatner is to singing.

(For the record, if given a choice between the 2, I’ll take Shatner any day of the week. lol)

nomoreskankboy
nomoreskankboy
6 years ago
Reply to  FMT

Skankboy cried several times…”I’m sooooo sorry,” said several times. Told the neighbor just a few weeks ago he “feels like an asshole for doing her wrong.” Boo-f-ing-who! Well, at least he got the asshole part right!

lyndaloo
lyndaloo
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Pret, you are so right.my STBX used to say “I’m not a bad Man” he excused himself from whatever idiotic thing he did or said. The child in him was ever present as well and I used to ask him “if he was ever going to grow up” he’d just laugh. He had a doting mother who always held him up on a pedestal his father was totally without empathy. I remember when his uncle died suddenly (father’s brother) the father announced right after the funeral ‘ the king is dead, long live the new king’ then he went to play golf, leaving his wife and the rest of the family at the reception. X was much the same with our family only he could put on the charm when he wanted to impress the ladies. Fortunately I didn’t breed with this narc and my kids are from a first marriage, now all grown with kids of their own. But he walked away from 4 beautiful grandchildren the eldest is 20 who thought the world of him, as did my kids. I have no contact with him all financials have been settled, tomorrow is 6 months from Dday and I think today could very well be my Tuesday. Hooray!

Pret
Pret
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Feelingit…..you so hit the nail on the head…they can’t handle being a father, husband, caretaker etc….they just can’t. My ex was exactly the same. The sad thing is that through my entire 14 year marriage, I knew that. I always said- I married a boy hoping one day he would turn into a man. Well..that is NEVER going to happen. Instead he did worse- he showed his true colors by abandoning his child. He’s in her life but not consistently and not out of love but out of some warped sense of “I’m looking at him so he better call his kid like he’s supposed to.” That’s pretty sad…she’d be better off if he and his mistress just went on their way. I pray for that day. These cheaters are who they are….and the sooner we can come to terms with that, the closer we’ll get to “trust that they suck”….hey today is Tuesday after all. For one of us in Chump Nation today is gonna be our Tuesday!!

Cancer Chump
Cancer Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

“I can stay here and be miserable or I can…”
My stbx uttered the same thing as he was leaving except instead of thinking his kid would hate him, his or I can was “work on my happiness”.

That he chose to “work on his happiness” while I was fighting character says a lot about his character or lack there of. But your right, they know who they are. He knew he couldn’t offer me any support and it made him feel bad about himself. He left so he didn’t have to feel that every day!

Jgirl
Jgirl
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

“He did not tell me at the time that he was particularly offended at my remarks but since he left, in 2016, he has made numerous references to this statement and how much it hurt him”

Ha! That’s just another mindfuck, I’ve had that too! We were never rude when fighting, but I have slipped a couple of times during reconciliation when my anger was off its leash, finally. And I may have said “I hope you die” or something to that tune. It was a one-off, not something I did before or after, and he had no particular reaction to it, because in his mind he’s allowed to tune out whenever someone is angry at him and not take them seriously at all.

But when it convenienced him, he surely liked to remind me how terrible I was for having “wished him death”, and he used this as carte blanche to demand I don’t consider seriously anything he spouted while angry (he was a big believer in “if I was angry when I said it, I didn’t mean it” – which I know now is horseshit!)

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago

I don’t think my EX would ever describe himself as a narcissist. He would, however, tell you that he is exceptional in any number of ways. But, in his eyes, narcissists are people who think highly of themselves without warrant. His self-awarded accolades are all merited–as he would be very eager to explain to you.

I think some narcissists are too narcissistic to accept such an ordinary description of themselves. (And my EX is also manipulative enough to know that laying claim to narcissism is generally not seen as a good thing–which is why he prefers to label anyone who disagrees with him as a narcissist.)

Gosh, I so don’t miss trying to live peacefully with an angry narcissist!

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

EILONWY

—-“in his eyes, narcissists are people who think highly of themselves without warrant. His self-awarded accolades are all merited–as he would be very eager to explain to you…”

THIS!!!^^^^^^ And the DOCTOR would say he’d “never failed at anything” and mean it. Not see that it might mean he’d never been told ‘no’, that he’d always gotten what he wanted – until I said “no, I don’t want to move to Alaska, again, especially since you said it’s a “take it or leave it” deal. (I still don’t find that very persuasive, btw).

To be fair, he’s smart and hard working; but I mistook that for character and loyalty.

My mistake.

PS

Dear DOCTOR Narkles, you failed at parenting and marriage.
Those are the two most important jobs you’ll ever be lucky enough to have.

You’re fired.

Ugh no...
Ugh no...
6 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

My ex sat in front of me with a straight face and referred to himself as (and I quote) an iconoclast, and a polymath. When I burst out laughing he called me an asshole.
That one still makes me laugh.

Lady B
Lady B
6 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

Pretentious douche is what he is!

Jgirl
Jgirl
6 years ago

I’ve seen this “study” before, while I was trying to untangle my ex, and I know he would never admit to it. He rejected the notion fiercely that there was “anything” with him at all. And I feel this stems both from narcissistic rage (how dare you peg me for being something unpalatable?) but also his sociopathic duping tendencies – he doesn’t want anyone to truly know him or who he is, ever (remember when “finishing each other sentences” was a romantic thing? yeah, not with this one).

But I can see my other, more grandiosly narcissistic ex, smiling smugly about this.
This one also had, I reckon, sociopathic tendencies, but the narcissism in him is definitely predominant (social butterfly, accomplished salesman, etc.)

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
6 years ago

A guy on an online dating site let me know upfront that he generally always gets what he wants and doesn’t let negativity get in the way. This comment was made in reference to whether I would continue to email with him … ha ha ha. No. Just no. So yes, I do think they are rather impressed with themselves and their ability to focus solely on themselves to the potential detriment of others. My ex always made fun of people he considered “weak” … which was his word for kind, thoughtful, self-deprecating. Sadly, I needed to be a lot older to appreciate today’s lesson in life. As a young woman, I liked guys who were confident and got what they wanted … those were qualities I wished I had myself.

Kelli
Kelli
6 years ago

Then you have the psychopathic brand of sociopath (like what I survived), who would answer this question with a 1. Why? Because he only lives to help people.

Translation: If he puts some half assed effort into appearing normal, people think he’s normal. It’s called the “Mask of Sanity.”

Unfortunately, he believes he is a wonderful father, even though he has supervised visits with 2 of his children.

One of the mothers of his children said go away when he contacted her. This was the mom of the child he had during our marriage with the other woman.

But, he truly believes the lies he tells and believes he’s a good and decent person.

It’s frightening.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelli

Hadn’t thought of this in a long time but I was just recalling a couple stories stbx would tell me when we were dating and during the first years of marriage. We would drive to visit his grandparents about 3 hours away and he would tell one story about he and his dad pulling a truck driver out of a burning truck that had just crashed and as soon as they had him out, it blew up.
The second was a story about he and his dad saving a woman who was about to attempt suicide by jumping off a bridge. They had to pull her down.

I can hear you telling me now FMT not true or immensely exaggerated! Lol

FMT
FMT
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

All of which is to say your ex probably *drove past* people whose car exploded and/or who were about to jump to their doom.

FMT
FMT
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Lol. Sounds like more acts of derring don’t from Walter Mittey there. ☺ Are these tales in any way consistent with how you observed him to behave over the course of your relationship?

My mom is seriously disordered, and for years she told us kids all kinds of whoppers. Like all good liars, though, she’d inject an element of truth. She used to be a fabulous rider (horses) and often told of how neighbours were so impressed that one of them bequeathed a very beautiful Arabian mare to her as a teenager. Years later I found out it was actually my mom’s younger sister (with whom she had a bitter rivalry) who was given the horse.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelli

It is frightening and soooo messed up. And they come across as such great guys. They can talk things up so that they seem like caring and involved fathers.

Chickynot
Chickynot
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelli

Kelli,
You are so right on; I hear you! “He lives only to help people.” Mine so honestly thinks the world is so lucky to have him in it that totally unrelated things that happen out there are because of him.
Example: our son recently won a national championship. He was a total underdog and it was thrilling to watch. STBX never approved of son’s devotion to the sport. STBX’s first comment to me the next time I saw him: “It’s so great– he won because of me! We used to practice that winning move all the time when he was a little kid.” Even the accomplishments of OTHERS he sees as a reflection of his own grandeur!

Doingme
Doingme
6 years ago

After 41 years together the Limited said, “It was ALWAYS about he thrill of the chase.” This was after I called him on calling her a ‘dream girl’ in a poem he gave to his latest victim. By his definition a dream girl was the first of the many women he was able to dupe.

He went on to say he’d dump her when she stopped having sex with him. Yet when I told him my therapist called him a narcissist he became outraged. Three years later and he’s still looking and cheating.

The question of , “Is he happy” is answered simply, “Yes.” There’s a certain pride attached to scoring supply and reinventing himself. It’s all about the new pedistal until it’s lowered. Always looking. He’s a predator through and through.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Yes! I asked mine if he was happy with the IW and he said yes, then that same night, he called me and told me he missed me, missed talking to me, etc. The next night I got a text from him that said, “Ibfeel scared and alone.” Yeah, you sound like a real happy guy alright. He’s a predator, hoping to hook me and keep sucking me dry.

Doingme
Doingme
6 years ago
Reply to  Keepin Calm

KeepingCalm

I believe many of us ask ourselves this question initially. I’m thinking predatory creatures enjoy the chase and tingle with denight in securing new supply.

I also believe it’s just as exciting to pull one over on the loyal spouse. Of course they know what they are.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

I agree. They know exactly what they’re doing.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago
Reply to  Keepin Calm

Whoops! Darn typos! “OW” and “I feel”

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago

Mr. Sparkles would adamantly respond “NO” to the survey question. He lacks the emotional depth to understand his pathology. Truly… there’s nothing there… just “victim”.

HOWEVER, when you are struggling (in any manner) he will be the first one to regale you with stories of his past where he OVERCAME ALL OBSTACLES and by God, you better realize that you’re not half the person he is today. (Of course, now he does this over cheap eats at Friendly’s and then drives home to his new 900 sq ft house that his GF owns, along with her two dogs.) Yup, he’s climbed the mountain all right.

catharsis2017
catharsis2017
6 years ago

After seeking help for myself with a therapist, my STBX suddenly figured she should go as well. She then suggested that we should switch therapists so we could all talk about HER.

You truly cannot make this shit up.

lyndaloo
lyndaloo
6 years ago
Reply to  catharsis2017

Cattharsis, it is interesting behaviour , whenever I would try something new, a diet, starting tracking my BP, anything new at all, he would immediately start doing the same. Then he would take whatever it was to the extreme. He needed to make everything a competition and be the centre of attention.

ANC
ANC
6 years ago
Reply to  lyndaloo

Yup. Had this too. He would steal my interests and ideas, go hog wild to out do me and then offer them up to his fuckbuddies as his original plans. He does this with our kids too. Like I said, these idiots are empty.

Thankful
Thankful
6 years ago

My Ex would not cope to it, the whole concept of ” what one confesses with their mouth, they confess with their heart also” is engrained in him. So he just won’t own it. No consequences that way. This is the same reason he would cope to having had sex with men during our marriage but would not own being gay.
But four years post D’day and 19 months post his marriage to another woman and the Psychopath traits are rising to the surface yet again and he doesn’t care who sees them, wife 2.0 is already showing signs of the pick me dance. Clearly the love bomb stage of their relationship is over ????. As she is now doing things to show him she is worthy, including trying to act as visitation mediator which I quickly put a stop to, As she had failed to see she was reinforcing Ex’s abuse towards our 13 yr old daughter in the process. Despite DYD spending Saturday with them to celebrate the step sisters 10th Birthday. Ex is withholding DYD’s Birthday gift as leverage to gain a days visitation in two weeks time. All because she refused to drop everything and go with him for three hours when he suddenly turned up un announced on her birthday.

I trust that he sucks, and I don’t dance. I just wish I could help my girls more.

Spoonriver
Spoonriver
6 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

One thing I’ve noticed with the STBX is how he likes to waste everyone else’s time. He controls by being very late, holding us up and making us late, expecting we all drop everything at the last minute for him. He could never understand why it was upsetting to have to wait on him. I think he really perceives people as going into some kind of suspended animation or that we cease to exist when he is not around. We are only real when he is present.

Thankful
Thankful
6 years ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

Spoonriver,
The undercurrent feeling Ex gives of that we cease to exist when he is not present was what killed me the most after D’day as that is exactly how he treated me and the kids. Would walk into the hospital an act like the would just revolved around him and didn’t exist otherwise. Because all that exists is him.

JessMom
Your girl is young she doesn’t need the harsh reality of her father being a dick, that will come in due time. He will not be able to prevent himself from treating her just like he treats everyone one else. Just love her for now and reinforce healthy boundaries. My ex had a look on his face the day I told him I was pregnant with DYD I had not seen before and I did not see again till after D’day. It was the ‘how dare you fuck with me look’.
In the first year of her life (the youngest of three) he distanced himself, had an affair with a man and then took a job that had him away from home for up to two weeks at a time, where he spent money we did not have, cared nothing about me or the kids but would call to brag about his accommodation or that he had scored a whole bottle of red with his steak on the company dime. When I suffered a breakdown due to FOO issues, postnatal depression and his behaviour, he instantly twisted it to make out I had abandoned him and the kids due to my unresolved issues making me feel so guilty that I actually wrote to my church an open letter asking that they care for him while I was in hospital. In the years that followed he used all our kids to advance himself socially. For the disordered children are not something to love and cherish, they are a commodity, something to have, play with and discard when something more interesting comes along. Hang in there.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

Interesting. I think my STBX is early for the same reason. He’s always early for his supervised visits with our little one … not just a few minutes …. at least 30 minutes early. Often, an hour or more early. It makes no sense and it’s infuriating.

It’s not like I want to tell my little one … “Yeah, it LOOKS like dad is showing up early because he just can’t wait to spend time with you. Really, he’s being a dick and trying to throw us off balance.” (She was our third and last child — STBX was livid about the pregnancy — ignored the two of us for the first year of her life and during my horrible PPD … leaving me to live with her in a bedroom so I could protect her from his obvious disgust … she’s now six and I protected her so much that she thinks dad is a nice “fun” guy …. argh ….)

I’ve called him out on his surprise “early” visits a couple of times, and he does better for a while (15 minutes early instead, which is at least workable). But, then it starts over again. No surprise. The man is a living, breathing cycle of assholery.

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

A good way to solve the lateness problem is to go ahead with your plans. He doesn’t show up on time, he doesn’t get the brownie points.

It might take a time or three for it to work, but it will work.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

I think mine is always late because he doesn’t want to be the one stuck waiting on anybody else so he makes sure we are all the ones waiting on him. Then he gets upset when the kids get bored of waiting for him and start doing other things and then aren’t there with their shoes and coats on ready to walk out the door the moment he arrives an hour late.

Dee
Dee
6 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

I hear you Thankful! Our poor kids.

Oh, the centrality. What is it with these idiots expecting their children to drop everything at a moments notice to spend time with them, and then laying on the guilt trip when the child refuses? My 16 yo daughter has been burned so many times. Heartbreaking.

UnflownKite
UnflownKite
6 years ago

About year 3 of our marriage I asked the ex-husband why did everything have to be about him and his wants and needs. And he seriously replied, “Why not?”

UXworld
UXworld
6 years ago

(Sorry in advance for the length of the following)

The flip side of the coin that @nomar raises above — female narcs that quietly plot their evil deeds behind a sweet and genteel mask — are those who shroud their narcissism in “female empowerment” and “shattering male expectations of what woman should be.”

Those of you who frequent the forums know I’ve been dealing with just such an incident recently — to recap, I learned that Kunty Kibbler posted a series of 12 “boudoir photos” of herself on Instragram, where my 15- and 13-year old daughters (and apparently their friends, who registered their ‘likes’) can see them.

The first photo in the series contained a narrative espousing the female empowerment cheater/narc story:

“I was a fat kid, fat teenager, fat college student. I was bullied and picked on and made fun of. Made to feel ‘less than,’ even by members of my own family. I had a horrible body image and even less self esteem. I met a nice man when I was very young, and he wanted to marry me. So I did, because who else would. We had a nice life. He was a good husband. We made two beautiful daughters. And I looked at my two baby girls and decided there was no way I was going to let them feel about themselves the way I felt about myself. So I decided to change. I started eating better. I started running and going to the gym. And little by little, I got healthier and stronger. And I started gaining confidence. I started trying new things. I started coming out of the protective shell I had surrounded myself in. I learned about myself. I learned that I am strong, smart, talented, and yes, beautiful and sexy. I changed, but unfortunately not in step with my husband. I stopped trying to conform to who he and others thought I should be. We split, and that made me even more strong, confident and comfortable with myself. Yes, I still have body issues. Yes, I still struggle with what I see in the mirror and focused on perceived flaws — a roll here, a jiggle there. It took me two years to lose 50 pounds, and even more years to find out who I am. But I am me. And I love it. #bodyimage #iamme #thisismeandidontcarewhatyouthink”

So of course I had to have a chat with my girls about the risks of posting inappropriate material online, even if you think it’s done in a “private” way, making bad choices, and what it means to set a proper example for those you’re responsible for. (Turns out KK posted the first one without notifying my daughters in advance, then asked E the Elder if she felt funny or bothered by it [she said, ‘Well, kind of…’] while RPD was in the room, then posted the others — one per day, a sort of female narc serial — despite her daughter’s feelings about it.)

Which is all to say — a narc WILL tell you what (s)he is in some way, shape, or form, if you look and listen closely enough.

#alwaysmeanttobeakunt

(Aside: What bothers me most about KK’s narrative isn’t so much the whitewashing of her horrendous deception and betrayal; it’s the gall she has in stating that she did this for the betterment of her daughters. Ask any normal human being how you keep young girls from having poor self-esteem and body image, and the response will be to give them enough love, attention and positive reinforcement so that they know they’re worthy of love no matter what they look like — not to work for years to achieve a certain body type, wrap it in 4 different kinds of lingerie and invite the whole world to look at you. As usual, KK’s words are in direct conflict with her behavior.)

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

UXWorld,

Reminds me of what I now understand to be a borderline who was a fellow guest on a cycling trip. Drama queen from Brentwood down in L.A. She required a lot of attention from the guides-a lot-and regaled the rest of us with funny Hollywood stories. She couldn’t understand why her kids didn’t want her volunteering by nude modeling for their art classes. Her daughter asked “Mom, why can’t you just bake some f*cking cupcakes and brownies like the rest of the mothers ?!”

Attention seeking loon !

Lady b
Lady b
6 years ago

Sooo funny, love an attention whore as I am not one but it’s like watching a side show!

Let go
Let go
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

When she posted those pictures of herself she went to the dark side. It is the very antithesis of what girls should be told. Bodies are meant to be lived in. They are not meant to be idols. They are not meant to be worshiped because of the right size of their body parts. The most beautiful people to me are those that rise from the ashes of war, car wrecks, physical abuse and do not apologize for their scars. You are their dad. They will listen to you.
At one time my family lived close to some wealth. One day one of my children asked we were rich. We weren’t but I wanted to take it further than that. I told her not to have unrealistic ideas. There will always be someone prettier, smarter or richer than she and to enjoy the life she has. The nice thing about it is that she gets the most out of every day.
Give your girls a hug today. That means a lot more than any pictures they see.

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

She forgot to mention an important point – THE CHEATING!! That is a big part of that story conveniently left out. Bitch.