When the Pick Me Dance Turns Deadly
I read the news of a murder/suicide in Philly this week with a sad horror. Jennair Gerardot, 47, confronted the woman who was having an affair with her husband, Meredith Chapman, 33, and shot her. Then she turned the gun on herself. Two women dead and the cake-eating bastard who enjoyed the competition of two women is still very much alive.
Like many chumps, I can imagine the dark place Jennair Geradot was in. I’d like to tell you I’m above acts of retribution and vengeance — but after I was betrayed, I certainly imagined them. Vividly. Hourly. For ages. I’d like to tell you I’m above the Pick Me Dance, that no cheating asshole is worth my dignity and self-respect — but I danced. I tried to prove my worth to a worthless person. I know exactly how desperate that feels.
I know what it is to be gaslighted — to have my reality assaulted every day. No, I was never there. I never spoke to her. I don’t know what you’re talking about. You have issues. You have to get over this. When in fact, he was there. He was fucking her. He was lying to me.
And I know what it is to snap. I never knew myself capable of violence before. I never spanked my child. I never got in a fistfight. I’m a granola-headed liberal arts major. But one day, when my cheating husband screamed at me — an inch from my face, a man who left loaded guns in the house to intimidate me, a guy twice as wide me — when that guy screamed at me, that she’s a better lay, that her tits were huge — whatever he could say to humiliate me and take me to the brink — I boxed his ears. The college self-defense class must’ve kicked in, I went straight for the ears.
He fell over. And the look of shock on his face. I’m not proud of it, but I’ve also never regretted it. That cognitive dissonance — who I am versus what I’m capable of, whether that’s abject humiliation, or acts of violence — scarred me. It’s what’s leftover from infidelity. Wow, I was insane then. That mindfuck nearly killed me.
Which is probably why I fight the infidelity mindfuck every day on this blog. Don’t you succumb to the crazy. GET OUT and go NO CONTACT and realize that absolutely no good comes from engaging with cheaters.
There are so many mindfucks to fight too. The mindfuck that divorce makes you damaged goods, that you’ll never love again, that single parenting is less than, that being single is less than. There is so much FEAR fueling the fight to keep abusive partners, fear stoked by the RIC.
I don’t condone violence or revenge. I actually think it’s very un-chump like. Most chumps hurt themselves and buy self-help books, not guns. Most chumps are the victims in these sorts of toxic triangles — the obstacle who must be snuffed out. But I understand the Dark Place after D-Day, the insanity of grief. I wish Jennair had found us and reached out. This is what I would’ve told her.
1. ) These feelings are FINITE. This overwhelming despair and anger will fade. It is FINITE. You must channel it now to escape, but you will not always feel like a raw, exposed nerve. You will not always want to cry. In fact, with enough distance and time, you will feel mortified that you ever knew the cheater, or that this psychodrama was your life.
2.) Killing yourself and killing her will NOT MATTER to your cheater. In fact, the guy is probably crafting dating profiles right now. He’ll use the tragedy of your death, and her death, to great Sad Sausage effect. Poor him. Can you heal him? Can you be the Special Someone who can compete with your ghost? He will continue to hurt women, to triangulate them, to be a narc. He was NEVER a prize. Anyone who would goad you into a competition, or eat cake at your expense, is not someone who loves you. He doesn’t love deeply, and he doesn’t grieve deeply either. Why would you kill yourself over a shallow puddle of a man?
3.) The OW never mattered to him. You weren’t special to him, but guess what, she isn’t either. If it wasn’t her, it would be someone else. And then what? Are you going to shoot every woman that slips him her business card? She was shiny and new. Shiny fades, new gets old, the discard comes. Had you left him, she would’ve led your sad, off-balance life. Wondering about the competition, never being secure in the pick me dance…
Killing her just made her a martyr. And you’ve inflicted unspeakable pain on innocent people who loved her. Who didn’t deserve this pain. You did what narcissists do, by making your pain the Only Pain That Matters, justifying the harm you do to others.
4.) The best revenge is living without him. Don’t stay locked in his centrality. Don’t let him be the last person you ever love again. He’s NOT that powerful. Do NOT worship that false god. Get out there and live a good life and invest in people who truly care for you. The Pick Me Dance cannot impress him, but you not needing shit from him? You succeeding wildly without him? THAT impresses (and infuriates) him. You’ll only see the fury (stay no contact), but it crushes his narc soul to know he doesn’t matter.
Crush his soul. Save yours.
I’ve just screen shorter number 4 to keep reading to myself. 26 years ago today we first hooked up as teenagers at a friends 18th birthday party. 10 years ago today we got engaged in New York. Today I posted my first tax credits claim as a single parent. I plan to succeed the hell out of this new life. First goal is to get through today without crying, and make it the first year free day in 2 months. Then it’s on to tomorrow!
I agree. #4 is so powerful. “Don’t stay locked in his centrality. Don’t let him be the last person you ever love again. He’s NOT that powerful. Do NOT worship that false god. Get out there and live a good life and invest in people who truly care for you. The Pick Me Dance cannot impress him, but you not needing shit from him? You succeeding wildly without him? THAT impresses (and infuriates) him.”
When we make the cheater central, when we “stay locked in his centrality,” even in our own minds, we are indeed making a “false god” of a weak, foolish, inadequate person.
No Contact is the toughest, yet most powerful message to a cheater. It is the greatest advice Chump Lady ever gave.
Cheaters hate No Contact. It is their kryptonite. It sends the most powerful message.
Greatest song ever by Jimmy Buffet:
“If the Phone Doesn’t Ring…It’s Me.”
My fun boyfriend, the one I met when I was discarded by my narc husband (now ex) loves that Buffet song!
No contact is self love.
My ex stood in front of me (we were together for 32 years) 3 years after our divorce, screamed at me that he despised me cause I was happy! Now that sums it all up for me!
Best. Song. Ever. I had that album memorized my junior year in high school. I love that song.
You are so mighty… and you will “succeed the hell out of this new life”… it takes time… I’m almost 4 years out and am just getting to Meh… but it is out here and it is glorious!
Okay, to be clear, I am not condoning murdering other people. However, I have to admit there is a tiny part of me that admires the balls of this woman. Think about the revenge fulfilled, everyone in the world knows that she’s a whore and he’s a cheatind a**hole. Splayed across the newspapers. Instant karma.
I think the reason part of me feels this way is because the failure of the courts and society to acknowledge the pain of betrayal inflicted upon victims of infidelity.
From no-fault divorces, switzerland friends, to victim shaming (“you should have kept your man happy”), to years long custody battles with cheating narcs (the audacity), we chumps have accepted our lot that nobody cares about our pain and justice is often grossly denied to us. We are expected to take it on the chin and quietly slip away without causing a ruckus. If said ruckus is caused, we are now labeled “crazy”.
It’s sh*tty and unfair to watch selfish people blow up your life and skip off into the sunset while you’re left to clean up the mess for not just yourself, but sometimes the confused children who will carry emotional scars because of it.
Killing people is definitely NOT the answer, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t respect the fact that she took justice into her own hands because society and the courts certainly never would have given her that satisfaction.
*screen shotted
Yeah it’s terrible but God how I wish she would have saved one more bullet and shot that prick right between the eyes, just as he was saying “my wife might be in there.”
Please, don’t say that. We are never going to change the cheating narrative if we paint ourselves as murderous bitter people. For crying out loud, did you read CL’s article? “You did what narcissists do, by making your pain the Only Pain That Matters, justifying the harm you do to others” THIS
This woman wasn’t justifying; she was desperate.
Desperate people do desperate things.
The husband and the OW played a big part in driving this woman to desperation. Karma happens when you’re a fucktard shithead
; Karma happens when you’re a cheater.
Thinking that the cheating narc can play sad sausage for the rest of his life is infuriating.
The other woman’s husband also was affected. What a sad mess up of a lot of peoples lives due to the actions of cheaters. And the people they turn into desperate crazies.
These cheater narcs deserve consequences,
otherwise a society is morally bankrupt and descends into lawlessness. Right now they’re cleaning up and mopping the floor with the good people in this world.
I don’t defend the desperate woman’s actions however what was laid bare is for everybody to see and learn from.
The karma bus is a bitch.
You know how everyone LOVE, LOVE, LOVES Dr. Suess. Well, he was a cheating, mean-spirited asshole who cheated on his wife with Audrey Giesel (his real name) and his first wife committed suicide. He lived near me and hated children and was rude to any who managed to make their way to his door. Audrey is a first order witch too, and I thought that long before I was a chump. So it happens to Chumps when they have been driven to desperation. This woman just managed to take the OW with her.
I’m going to ceremoniously burn every “Dr” Seuss book in sight.
That’s EXACTLY what prize STD transmitting ex asshole told me to do.
Commit suicide.
Several times.
I’m still standing!
Strangely I didn’t want to hurt OW number 1. I expected poxface to make amends to her!
I was also yelled at for OWs more “prized features” too. How I laugh now!
They’re BOTH homeless. And hate each other. Who cares!
With our beautiful children despairing for my mental state, I saw their pain and DRAGGED MYSELF UPWARDS!
KICKED the butt wipe outta here for good.
If we engage in the pick me dance then it’s ONLY because we are holding on to fantasies of “what we had together” not of the REALITY of the cheater. A dark void of endless need for EVERYTHING.
Life was a nightmare. I was trapped in 4 walls only let out to work and Earn far majority income for the cheater to blow on who knows what or whom.
Who cares!
It’s FAR more satisfying spending money on high order Attorneys that convey the crap so eloquently that the Judge yells at cheater in Divorce Court.
Blissful are these moments of truth smashing cheater in the face. It’s perfect karma that cheater brought so many relatives to court that day.
These are sweet memories.
True justice.
❤ u Chumplady. You brought laughter and MEH so much sooner. Thanku.
She is saying it here so she does not do it. If I had not had this blog to write about what happened to me, I would be Inmate #009876.
Same here.
I had very, VERY dark thoughts those days, and stayed watching Snapped, Dateline NBC, 48 Hours, IDiscovery channel played 24-7, but once enough time had passed, I became much more rational and calm…
I watched all those shows too. All the time. Oddly enough, I don’t remember my dark thoughts having to do with murdering the ex or the OW – she was a stripper (although not the one he is currently engaged to) and I kind of figured doing THAT was punishment enough. I looked up the OW’s husband and he had a prison record for assault and the victim was a woman with a different last name than his. I remember wondering if the victim was the wife of another of his wife’s “clients” and if they would come after me for cutting off the money train. I think maybe I was thinking defense, not offense when watching those shows. IDK…maybe the murder thoughts were there, just deeply buried in my subconscious? I just remember watching hours and hours of those shows.
I binged on ID TV too. Guessing vicariously killed him
Ahhh–ID Channel: Murder Porn.
I’ve gotten really good at realizing when a husband comes home from an errand and finds his wife dead that he’s the perp!
Point well taken !!!
I feel similarly. And it is only because of anonymity.
Struggling,
Apologies if my post was a trigger.
What happened is horrific and unbelievably sad. I’m far enough out to be able to have some humor, even about tragedy.
I also believe that this is a space to be honest with each other and the truth is that many people have dreams and thoughts about revenge. It’s a human emotion especially after years of cruel gaslighting.
My personal story is that I was suicidal after learning of my spouse’s years of infidelity. I have gone very public about my hospitization and struggles with depression and finding the right medication for me. The divorce almost killed me and I talk about it to help others who might be ashamed or hopeless. If someone outside of CN were to read about my story, they might assume that we are all a bunch of crazies. That won’t keep me from speaking my truth.
Some of us do have dark thoughts of revenge. I don’t know about you but I was bitter about a 12 year affair and whatever else I don’t know Ned the end of a 30 year marriage with a person I loved deeply.
Part of my story is also how I moved past the suicidality and bitterness. I used the white hot anger to fight along with my lawyers to uncover lost funds and get a settlement that my lawyers thought I deserved (at that point, I took their advice as I was just struggling to survive). My older children, who knew the OW, lost their belief in marriage and faithfulness and their family, including extended family.
But there ARE still moments of bitterness along with many more moments of happiness, hope, joy, anger, love and hate, and lots of humor.
This is a journey of multiple truths! I cannot and will not limit MY truth because of what someone from outside this community might think if they read my story.
It’s one thing to have those feelings. It’s another to act on them. I’m still grieving a young person who was very dear to me, either murdered or a suicide in a domestic violence situation. I’d give anything to go back and pluck her out of there but she insisted everything was fine. It’s super important to get away from a family member who is violent and perhaps even more important to reach out if you consider self-harm. No matter who you are, there are people who love you, need you, and will be crushed if you lose your life. That’s just as true if you end up in prison over a cheating jackass.
That “Gain a Life” thing is the ticket.
Hey Rebecca. Actually it was the post before yours that triggered my response, not yours. Sometimes it’s hard to tell in these threads who is replying to whom. Anyway, For me, violence, especially deadly violence, well it’s something that I feel that it’s impoerant to choose words very very carefully, especially in a public forum. Personally, deadly violence is not something I’m comfortable joking about. And Sometimes these tragedies go the other way, where the chumpy spouse is the one who ends up murdered. Anyway, I don’t mean any disrespect to any chump in any way, i know how incredibly important it is we support each other. I just think we should be careful is all I am saying
I am also one of those granola eating liberals, who never raised a hand to anyone before discovering X’s infidelity. Like others posting here, I become something I abhor. I never did anything horrible to X, a thrown glass of wine, a shove, but it was my daughter who stopped me in my tracks one day. She said,”Please leave dad. Your anger is turning you into something you’re not.”
My rage was all-consuming and I knew I had to change. It wasn’t easy; I made many mistakes along the way. But I took that anger and made a life for myself. After many years of putting X’s needs, wants, and ego ahead of everyone including, unfortunately, myself and my kids, I realized that he didn’t give a damn whether I lived or died. I damn sure wasn’t going to continue to suffer for a man who could so easily betray me.
I so understand. That’s the main reason I left the Worm. I didn’t like what I was turning into.
Wormfree-
^^^^ this 100%. I saw a part of me that I never knew existed. I will never go back to that darkness again
My STBXW considers me to have “abused” her because I lost my temper once – just once (and in a stereotypically British way) in 13.5 years of marriage – 4 months after DDay when she hadn’t come home after midnight and was still out with the AP.
Unfortunately she has FOO trauma so she ended up crying curled up on the couch asking me to stop raising my voice.
She recalled to the MC with glee that “all he did was offer me a glass of water”, when talking of the abuse and neglect.
She didn’t mention that she refused my touch and didn’t want me near her, or that she still had to take a midnight shower afterwards (i.e. had sex with AP).
When he has nothing else to excuse more crappy behavior, ex reminds me that I “raged” at him during our marriage. Yes. I’ll agree to that. I raged occasionally from Dec-Aug when he provoked me with gaslighting and outright lies about his relationship with howorker. When I found a trunk full of proof that early morning I took his car to grocery store before he left for work, my rages ended. And reality set in.
Rebecca,,
I respect your story, deeply.
I feel it is the humour that anchors CN, it is the glue that holds it together. Humour has always been a huge part of my life. I worked in a profession that too many times, could rob one’s heart and soul of any humour, but I was fortunate in that humour clung to me, it saved me in tight spots and got me through. It also helped my co workers, I was known and loved for it. For that I am eternally grateful.
If we did not have humour in our lives Kleenex sales would be way way up.
❤️
Speak your truth.
Disclaimer – I don’t own a gun and have no plans to shoot anyone….
but if I did…
there is NO way I would have let the husband get away alive!?!?!
Unlike many of us who have had their heads fucked with, clearly this wasn’t well thought out.
There are times when my mind went there and pictured shooting both of them and then spending the rest of my life teaching in prison or doing research to help those who are innocent (I know, too many movies vs. reality). Or at least shooting the ex’s genitals off.
Yeah, for real… I kept telling myself that I was too pretty for prison… I have to remind myself of that every day here at work too…
Saw your comment on the Article MollyX…werd.
LOL!! Prison Princess!!
Hahahaaaa. P.P. for short!!!
revenge fantasies are one thing, but you really really don’t want to go to prison. You would go to a State prison, which are generally awful, and you wouldn’t get life or even very long (unless you had a violent prior conviction). Even if you got 5 years for manslaughter, you would probably only serve 2-3 years of it. Drug charges get more time than murder.
I always say to a friend of mine who jokes about vandalizing my ex’s place: “I don’t EVER want to do anything to him that would result in jail time.” He is not worth the dirt on my shoe let alone many more years of my life because I did something to him that resulted in a jail sentence. The marriage was sentence enough.
Exactly.
I maintain that a *true* jury of my peers – fellow chumps – would never convict me if I had killed either cheater. Rather, they would’ve hoisted me on their shoulders and paraded me around the court room for taking some human scum out of the gene pool. Hey, let me have my dream.
Nevertheless, I, too, did have some pretty vivid revenge fantasies and decided none of those wastes of skin and oxygen were worth even a suspended sentence.
Her Blondeness….You couldn’t have possibly said it any better.
Oh! The vivid revenge fantasies I had for those two. As they made an absolute fool out of me where we all three worked. If I had been one slice crazier the above story could have been mine, but the cheater would be resting with us too.
But as mentioned in the thread below, I too, felt I was too pretty for prison. I like nice things. I’m sure they wouldn’t allow my down pillows and cashmere pillow top mattress in a prison cell. Besides I decided the best hell might be right here on earth for them. They’re old and ugly now. No one wants them and they have no options so they get to look at each other for the rest of their lives. I imagine she’s a shopaholic online addict and he gets sloppy drunk every night.
Iron
Weighing out the options is simplistic. They aren’t worth one more second of your energy.
Leaving them in fact is like being released from a long fucking prison sentence. I did my time.
She might have thought he would be there. Or was going to wait for him after the OW was dead and it just didn’t work out that way.
Amen. I saw some pretty scary sides to myself too. As you mentioned, that’s what lying, gaslighting and verbal abuse will do to you.
I’d also like to say that I don’t think it’s only the RIC that is responsible for the message “that single parenting is less than, that being single is less than”, I think it’s our society as a whole – especially for women.
I was so desperate to be married, to have a complete family, that I ate shit sandwiches for 5 years and then beat myself up about it for another 2. Seven years wasted on that POS. That’s what I’m ashamed of now.
The good news is that as I teeter on the edge of 40, I simply do not care. I’m not married, I’ve never been married, I raised my kid entirely by myself (although that’s been hard for her) and I really don’t care if I ever get married. I date plenty, I have partners and when they start to show their disfunctional ways, I peace out.
There is something liberating about being free and independent.
Now if you are still wanting to start a family, then my heart goes out to you. I don’t know that I could ever trust someone enough to have children with them.
My children repeatedly ignore what happened last year a d act like it never happened. Are my kids spackling like I did for almost 20 yrs? My friends tell me to let it go and allow my kids to do this because eventually they will see who he really is? I try. I really try to walk away and allow them to have some kid of relationship with him while he pushes the AP onto them. Hardest thing I’ve ever done. My middle son (since DD day) moved to Colorado and has barely spoken to me. My heart aches to know he will have vacation here for 3 weeks and wants to 1/2 time with me and 1/2 with him n his AP. I can’t give into the rage. What’s the point?! Please tell me that some day they will see the truth. Is it healthy to think that this never happened?I love my kids and myself too much to ever consider going to jail or dying because of a fuckwit n his AP fuckwit.
HM wrote:
The good news is that as I teeter on the edge of 40, I simply do not care. I’m not married, I’ve never been married, I raised my kid entirely by myself (although that’s been hard for her) and I really don’t care if I ever get married. I date plenty, I have partners and when they start to show their disfunctional ways, I peace out.
There is something liberating about being free and independent. – end quote
Very good advice, HM. In this day and age, one no longer has to suffer harsh judgement for having children without a spouse. I wish that I could turn back the clock thirty or so years so I could have Jr. without the dysfunction of either cheater ruling our household. Don’t even get me started on the whole “staying for the children” myth…..grrrr
The topic of revenge in all it’s dark forms, was the start of this piece by CL.
When I heard of the murder/suicide event I read it carefully. I too, wanted to find out what happened to the cheating POS husband. Seems, nothing. We can HOPE he realizes that 2 women who – in someway cared for him, are dead, ALL BECAUSE of him…but this is not likely.
INSTEAD, He’s far more likely to label his wife as “the batchit crazy” one he WANTED to leave, and Schmoopie as his “real love.” And that’s one reason I would never take my own life for my ex. (I can’t speak for those who have had children die. I might not be able to live with that.)
I can only speak for those who have had their lives turned totally upside down with betrayals that are revealed at their most vulnerable moment, and that kept them reeling with each new discovery.
I knew I would not take my life. I did the “equation” once, for maybe a full minute.
Here it was: Knowing that my kids would be devastated, was huge. Being stuck with my X as their only remaining parent (or worse, add on a schmoopie), but the biggest factor I think
was knowing if I took my life for him, my x would feel validated in some way for the smear campaign he has run behind my back for – evidently – years.
So, NO way would I further his distorted-beyond-recognition narrative – by taking my own life. Fuck that.
At the start of this ordeal, I was filled with self doubt about every decision I was making, each choice was subconsciously made with HIS opinion in the back of my mind. It was paralyzing. Just having that gone as a factor, is an improvement.
I availed myself of every resource & worked hard to heal.
I loved my ex literally all of my adult life, and even though I stuck it out with him despite a lot of struggles and sacrifices for HIM, the DOCTOR, I can laugh at it now.
And yet My life is better now than it was for the past 5-10-(??) years of my undermining marriage. (Gaslighting makes it hard to know what exactly happened, and when.)
I still feel loss, and MY income is lower than the x’s of course.
But the DOCTOR “needs” more money than me, b/c he cannot feel good about himself without MORE MORE MORE/THE MOST/MOST MONEY…whereas even though our settlement was NOT fair, I will have “enough”.
It is MY turn now. In my marriage, I’d never have gotten a turn. I did not know that, but I do now.
So, last week I stood on a stage to do stand up comedy for the first time in 2 years. YAY ME.
I’m finally healed enough to do comedy again, AND I dedicated my comedy appearance last week to my ex. I think it was among my best shows.
My set included material about my marriage, my “reframing shitty behaviors of his, and denying reality” to enable the gaslighting, and also about the most serious illness I’d ever had, (which is exactly when my DOCTOR husband chose to leave, btw.)
The reasons I can joke about the grueling ORDEAL now, is because I’m hilarious, smart, resilient, and may I add, damn good looking.
Never mind that I loved him deeply, was loyal during our 35 year marriage. Never mind that he’s lost me and our 3 children’s respect and love, and his integrity and our shared history – (I really don’t know what he does with that. 35 years of achievements and poverty and deployments and beautiful children who are fine adults now…I will have to let go of wondering how he does THAT).
And Never mind that Schmoopie has gained weight, but not IQ points.
I’m not crazy, or greedy, mean or dishonest. I married a poor young guy in school and we managed great success which he has thrown away and will remarry soon. Marry a woman who would never have done what I did for him and looks like white trash. Never mind all of that.
I’m a great catch, who deserved and deserves so much more than my x gave me.
Having him gone is better than having him in my life. I would rather be alone, than wish I was.
My sister, who lost her fertility and her ease with sex after treatment for cervical cancer (hooray for the new vaccine against HPV–get your kids vaccinated!), adopted, as a single woman. She has two lovely children, one of whom will graduate from high school next month.
I will delete all anti-vaccine comments. It’s off topic and vaccines save lives. We’re PRO science here.
Please cite medical sources before claiming a vaccine is unsafe. There is always a risk that someone may have some bizarre and terrible reaction to a vaccine, such as an unknown allergy to an ingredient. These are outlier cases and do not negate the vaccines overall benefits and overwhelming statistical safety.
The vaccine does protect people from some forms of HPV and thus many of the causes of cervical cancer. I’d rather be protected from some diseases than none!
I have a friend who just lost her husband at age 40 to mouth/tongue/throat cancer. The bottom half of his face had been removed which is how his little kids saw him. Caused by hpv. I live in a very progressive place for medicine, the teaching area for a lot of the world. Best of the best. Vaccinate your children. Unless you’re a medical professional please don’t tell others not to vaccinate.
I’m sorry for your sister.
And happy for her independence and strength.
We don’t know what those vaccines do to people.
One thing we do know about the HPV vaccine is that it prevents cervical cancer. And believe you me, you do not want to have to be treated–nor your children treated–for cervical cancer or suffer the permanent effects of the treatment: loss of fertility, early and sudden menopause with its hot flashes, etc, gut, stomach, and digestion problems. Not to mention the effects of chemotherapy, and the resultant chemo brain. Or a rod of radioactive cesium implanted in your vagina for several days in the hospital with restrictions on how many minutes your caregivers or family can remain in the room with you because you are radioactive.
Newly diagnosed with HPV, here, a souvenir of cheater’s infidelity. My daughter has been vaccinated, thank God. Hopefully she will never face the worry of STDs due to her partner’s inability to be faithful, but at least this is one disease she is now protected against. I wish I had been.
I’ve been looking for your name to pop up. I was a little afraid the nation had failed to help and educate one of us!
Me three. Thank God you’re ok!
Got my boys vaccinated too. It is an wonderful cancer prevention tool.
Now the cheater’s dilema, which funeral to attend?
So very sad, tragic really.
Just this week many have read of the horrific happening in Toronto where a “crazy” randomly killed 10 and injured many others in a rented white van at 1:30 in the afternoon. It is stated that the killer was aiming for, and many of his victoms, were women. He belonged to some cult that were against bonding with a woman. A very brave officer was able to capture this weirdo alive. I doubt he will talk much.
I learned after the happening that my youngest daughter had flown on an unexpected business trip, to Toronto and had been on this very street just a few hours earlier than the tragic happening.
I am so thankful she is alive. I watched a news clip on the youngest victim, a beautiful young woman, who worked in a very prominent business building, out for a stroll on a rare beautiful weather day, during her lunch break. Now her life is over. How sad for her loved ones and for this senseless loss of a life that was so full of promise. All information is not out yet, but it is said most of his victims were women. He was out to kill women.
How does society feed and cloth this “crazy” how, how, how……….
Dear Peacekeeper, hug your daughter for me. Glad she is OK.
Thank You for your kindness Her Blondeness.
She texted me” Mom, this has taught me we must live each day to its fullness!”
So very sorry for the many lives lost and for the families’ sadness.
Just learned a new word this week-incel.
Refers to an involuntary celibate (usually young men) who are full of rage because they are not getting the sex they think they deserve. Reddit had to close down their community due to inciting violence against women.
Sheesh…
that started with the MRA people, mostly men but also some women who hate feminists and believe women are more than equal. A common complaint is that women can get sex whenever they want but the poor men cannot.
The cheater should be rarred and feathered in the public square, or vilified on social media, put on blast world-wide as a cheating scumbag.
I hope their families put him in check and refuse him at both services if he dares to show up
One of my cheater’s affair partners lives in Toronto. The one he was fucking 20 years ago when we were dating. The one he ran to when he abandoned his wife and daughters.
I just read of another woman murdered by this piece of trash,
A beautiful single mother of a little boy. She started her first day of work in a school cafeteria and was on her way home, on Yonge Street, in Toronto, by subway, home to her little boy.
No heart, no soul, this piece of trash.
What do we do?
A close friend told me it is because we don’t show enough love to all people.
Help me, help us, to understand, what do we do, what can we do to make our world a better, safer place.
What,Can.We.Do.?
A neigbour of the alleged murderer said it was obvious by casual observation that this young man was mentally not well. Sadly some internet sites provide a hotbed for very twisted thinking.
Peacekeeper, please please please post
Now the cheater’s dilema, which funeral to attend?
on the Washington Post comments!
It is priceless
It doesn’t appear that Minassian was necessarily mentally ill. He was angry and misogynistic. He made references to being an Incel (involuntarily celibate), a toxic sludge of entitled self-loathing men who see happiness as a zero-sum game. They stoke their rage in an echo chamber of half-baked “evolutionary psychology” theories and revenge fantasies.
Revenge for what? For society somehow conspiring to keep them from having all the sex with hot young women they desire. That’s the justification for murdering those who may be happier than they are..this bizarre sense of righting a cosmic wrong.
I keep hoping we’re near the end, that this explosion of rage by the historically privileged is the sign that unearned privilege is having its last desperate gasp. I’ve got to find hope somewhere, I guess.
Stepping up on a soapbox: (disclaimer, I am not a scholar)I
I am hearing the word privilege more and more in cultural discussion. Kind of a buzzword these days. I think what is missing is that privilege is historically something to be earned through lots of behaviors which include good behavior, respect and hard work. We have come to a point where people confuse privilege and entitlement. I thoroughly believe that fuckwit was very aware that his ancestors and even his father worked like mad to overcome poverty and discrimination to the point where they were part of a more privileged class. He benefitted from that and grew up with these people but I think the privilege became entitlement for him. He did not work for what he had and much was given to him. ( he would argue that) He certainly never knew the poverty his father did of not having indoor plumbing as a child and working to help put food on the table from a young age.
Madeline Levine’s “The price of privilege” was a real eye opener for me. She talks about the pressure and stress on wealthy kids and the problems it causes but I would argue that it doesn’t take being wealthy in America to have this problem, it is a problem of the middle class too. Maybe that is because the middle class in America are rich compared to the rest of the world. My guess is that may be the case in most industrialized countries. I plead ignorance.
These so called privileged cheaters are abusing their privilege and it then becomes entitlement which is a big problem.
The middle classes of America live like princes compared to many people on this planet. Just think: hot and cold running water (INDOORS), along with comfy indoor (non-stinky) toilets, bath/shower (indoors), warm beds, more food than they need, electricity, on and on and on…
That’s privilege.
The sad “Incel” have just decided that they are justified in their anger because they can’t screw any woman that they want, and women are evil because they will not allow themselves to be used simply as sexual vessels for the Incel.
Well, I have news for the Incel, apparently. The Chads and Stacys they rage against are a vanishingly tiny percentage of the 7 billions of humans on this orb; the rest of us have our own faults and flaws, just as the Incel do. What are the Incel doing to make themselves more desirable? Are they educating themselves, developing interesting hobbies, playing sports? If not, why not?
It’s like most narcissists: it’s everyone else’s faults if the Incel don’t get what they want. As my mom used to say “Cry me a river.”.
Amen on your discussion of entitlement. I see it every day in my profession as a teacher; some students seem genuinely surprised when they are told that the school rules apply to them. Some seem to feel that they can behave as they like; only lesser folk have to behave, I guess.
I have heard about these young men who are “involuntarily celibate,” and their mindset makes me ill. You’re not entitled to sex from anyone, to sexual attention/flirting from anyone, etc.
It is frustrating to see that as victims of sexual harassment and abuse come forward and share their stories, there are members of the population that are completely on another planet, thinking they can take sex when they want, and if no one wants to give it up, well then, they deserve to die. We are regressing from being enlightened, rational beings.
“Now the cheater’s dilema, which funeral to attend?”
Hysterical ???? !!!!! Made my morning!
He will need to bring a date.
NOW I.C.
“He will need to bring a date” – OMG -so darkly hilarious. Which is what we must be here, for we exist in this place originally due to deep wounds to the heart. To survive, gallows humor is mandatory.
We get it.
Somehow, I’d be willing to bet he already has one picked out.
After I found out 3 years ago about my now ex wife’s cheating I felt rage and fury like I have never done in my life. I can see how easily people who are cheated on can snap and something regrettable occurs. And regrettable it is for the Chump because someone who cheats on you is simply not worth wasting one more second of your life on and you certainly wouldnt want to end up in jail for a worthless waste of space. As oft said, best revenge is a life lived well.
Interesting comments below the original article. Some blaming the wife, but plenty commenting that the Cheater probably got what he wanted, a divorce at zero cost to himself, the OW? He can find another.,.
“Killing her just made her a martyr.”
I hope not. From the story I read, she was a cheater too and until recently his boss.
It’s truly sad the amount of pain and loss that was caused by selfish behavior.
The family’s statement did specifically state that the OW won’t be “defined by” the tragedy, which leans toward the martyr thing. But it’s to be expected. We revise the dead into innocent angels in our culture.
Yes she very much will be defined by the tragedy. Regardless of the family’s desires.
Yes to this.
Lack of pick me dance on my part made the ex so mad he kidnapped me after our children went to school. He tied me up, tried to drug me and when that didn’t work he put me in a choke hold twice til I passed out..hauled me across two counties. Said he was going to shoot himself because I didn’t fight for him from the ow. I was luckily found the next day and he got 30 yrs in prison. Good riddance. That was 2 yrs ago and we are doing great!
OMG my X threatened to shoot himself (couldn’t hold a job) even the white trash Ho dumped him, I hear he’s about to marry someone he met on Plenty O Fish, ROFLMFAO!
Oh my goodness, LivedtoTell!! You are such a BadAss!!
This would make a great movie.
So interesting that he (maybe they all do) needed the pick-me-dance. Really needed. As in would freakin go out of his mind (which he did do) without the pick-me-dance. And you were all calm: nope, not gonna do it.
He was, “Not even if I strangle you!?”
And you were, “Nope.”
He left you to die, you’re so meh, it’s just a footnote almost in your story.
My hat’s off to you, Madame BadAss
LivedtoTell–I’m going to join the chorus of voices lauding your mightiness, not only for living through that trauma but for getting to the point of “doing great!” now.
And a note to those in the throes of leaving an emotionally abusive cheater–you are at greatest risk once he realizes that you are serious about divorcing or breaking up. Over half of all women killed, were killed by romantic partners. Take precautions, even if he has never been violent before.
I add my voice to Tempest. Ex escalated from rages to attack, set me up to go to jail for DV and nearly shot me before I got away. Be careful if your cheater is a rager.
Oh Boy! Behind BARS! Now THAT is what I call NO CONTACT. And you are incredibly mighty!
I feel so sorry for your kids though, to have this creature as a father. I lament everyday the idiot I gave my sons for a father.
My thoughts are with you Lived!
Glad you are still here and not a statistic. Good for you, you are mighty indeed. I know how tough it is rebuilding your life after something so horrific. You go girl!
Tessie, you sure do.
livedtotell, what a great handle you have. It works even if we don’t know your horrific story, since chumps are survivors of soul-killing betrayal, but in your case it’s also literal.
And if you ever get a chance to meet Tessie, you should!
Wow, I think you literally did dodge a bullet. So glad for you. I hope those 30 years he got are in the US. If it was in the UK that bastard would probably be out in 10!
OMG. You’re incredible. The strength it must’ve taken to get that guy behind bars. WOW.
Hardest part…OW still visited him in county jail and his court hearings..hasn’t written one word to his kids..we were married 15 yrs.
You are so very lucky!! Thank God you survived. I know 2 women who were murdered because of infidelity. In the last murder (made into a Forensics File show) the OW waited for the murderer and they married when he was finally released. Sick. I’m sure this is the much more common scenario than what happened in PA.
Wow!
I am so glad you made it through that! You are mighty!
What a freaking psychopath.
thank you..I could’ve ended much different..two orphaned kids.
Oh. My. God. I hope you will be advised if he ever gets paroled?
Only two years ago! Hugs to you and the kids. Most people will never understand this level of trauma (and I am happy that they will not), but it changes your world forever and you live in a place where few reside. You are so mighty!!!!! He is locked up and that offers some relief. Continue on great soul!
Oh my god CL you are so right the damage that asshole will now be able to inflict on the unaware has been magnified by 1000.
I can picture his expression as he tells the story he never gets tired of telling. Probably a new and improved version each and every time.
Nauseating disgusting and dangerous
Fix your picker people!! Whatever hook a narc was able to latch into, find it and file it to a nub.
Hey! NoMo — just wondering, is there any way a sharp detective and attorney could find someone to kick the cheater’s ass? Is it possible that he is legally culpable of something in this case?!
# i understand
Vale Jennair. I forgive you.
I’ve not thought about ever physically hurting him or her.
There were days where I wondered if my body could continue to function. I heard a line in a movie once that described a discard like being in a car crash “ it should of killed you instantly, but it didn’t.”
It felt like that. There was about a month where my kids had to take my phone and lay out my clothes everyday…..and I’m no slacker.
I hope this doesn’t banish me to hell, but I do think at times that I won’t feel sad if I hear my ex, his mistress, or my mother in law has died…..or all three.
Not very meh.
You shouldn’t feel bad, why would you?
What you say reminded me of the final lines of Jamaica Kincaid’s essay, “On Seeing England for the First Time,” in which she confronts the colonial “mother country” that had so oppressed her native Antigua:
“The white cliffs of Dover, when finally I saw them, were cliffs, but they were not white; you would only call them that if the word “white” meant something special to you; they were dirty and they were steep; they were so steep, the correct height from which all my views of England, starting with the map before me in my classroom and ending with the trip I had just taken, should jump and die and disappear forever.”
I’ve been walking around quoting that last phrase to myself about my stbx quite a lot recently, and when I do it I know I’m not just referring to those rosy “views” I had of my stbx, which I now know to have been figments meant to aggrandize him and keep me in line, but to him as well. My privately imagining him jumping off a cliff is a whole lot less damaging to him than what he did in real life to me.
“My privately imagining him _______________________is a whole lot less damaging to him than what he did in real life to me.” Truth.
Not feeling sad about their demise is not going to send you to Hell. Death happens everyday. It’s not the same as rushing it along.
Or wishing them dead with every breath. There are extended family members/in laws I will not miss or mourn, but I figure if I feel that way, they’ll know it somehow. Moving forward as if they don’t exist is way more freeing. I know, since I sat in that dark place of wanting revenge (never violently, and if it was, it was fleeting and in my head only, never uttered out loud) and it didn’t serve me at all. The ow? She’s still married to her obs/former brother in law/former om and still contacting me (uses new channels) after 4 years. Things like “hey….” I didn’t even know this woman and she’s fishing for something from me – and I’m merely a prop in her big act. She has 4 kids so I don’t wish her dead, but her thinking about me tells me a lot. Same with other 2 other family members and the birthday cards they send. I ignore and send them a clearer message than screaming in their faces ever would. My happiness is the best outcome. People say “but the card is a peace offering, they’re trying to reach out.” Which is the first step on the road to chumpy town, isn’t it? But it has taken me a lot of time and therapy to really know that. And I’m not stopping the therapy. No contact is a real gift towards healing. By not letting them be central and ensuring their invisibility, I’m doing what they most fear.
When your pain engulfs you, you get irrational. This woman was a murderer, no matter how you slice it. I winced when I read it because I felt her pain, but her choices were her choices and they were terrible ones, and by the sound of it, not knee jerk, but planned. Btw the ow is getting huge sympathy on line because she’s pretty and was killed by an older bitter bunny who couldn’t let go. Aaarrrrrgggh my head.
Brilliant post CL!
Sympathies to all family members. Tragic.
I remember in my most desperate moment I thought- I’ll let him continue the affair and we’ll stay married. Yes. I actually thought this. Thank god it never happened.
I thought about staying married by hiring my ex a professional dominatrix. I got that idea by drinking a whole bottle of wine by myself one night and searching the Internet for bad relationship advice. I literally had an ‘aha’ moment and a rush of relief that I wouldn’t have to end my marriage and raise my heartbroken children alone! This could work! Lol! Later, when I found CL, I tweaked the plan a bit. I would hire a dominatrix to beat the shit out of him, for realsies. I knew he would never go to the cops, so it would have been an ideal revenge. With the help of Chump Nation, I relished and stoked that revenge fantasy without shame, while proceeding with the business of divorcing his ass. You see, the difference between me and him is that I don’t feel entitled to act on every emotion and desire that pops into my head. And I know that when bad things happen in life, feel however you need to about it, just don’t take any actions to make it worse. If you can do that, you’re already halfway to Meh.
Yes, and in time he will tire of her and come to his senses. So sad to think back on that reasoning now.
I was offered a downgraded position of roommate. After 22 years serving as wife. Via text message o.O
We did have to live together 6 months after I filed and he actually complained to his lawyer that I had stopped doing his laundry
Too funny now that I look bad. My sad sausage cried his crocodile tears and wanted to live in one bedroom and me in another. He just didn’t want a divorce. I just looked at him in unbelief and said Nope I don’t think so… He was financially cheating and just wanted to finish siphoning off the assets, not to his schmoopie but his grown, married daughter. He had been doing different variations of this for a few years and I found out every time. They had a great time laughing behind my back about their antics. I thought that I truly loved him, I cried, begged and pleaded for him to make a life with me and let his daughter have her family. He continued and I continued to find out. I promised myself that if I caught him doing this one more time, I would divorce him. That is what I did last year. He’s been gone 6 months, we are completely no contact. I came out pretty well financially, but this was not what I pictured for my “golden years” I’m trying hard to get to meh, some days are better than others.
We continued to live together for 5 months while we were going through mediation and preparing the house for sale. He expected me to continue in the role of wife. When I refused to do his laundry, he said “Is this what we’ve come to?”
I asked him for the password for the cable and he said he would give it to me “If I came downstairs with him” he was sleeping in the basement and he wanted sex in exchange for the password… meanwhile he was still carrying on the affair right in front of my face.
You should have told DumbAss that he was being “unfaithful” to her and tried to seduce you.
Same with me– we lived together for eight months until I bought and moved into a new home. He still thought we’d go get coffee together and do lots of things with the kids. It was surreal.
Cheater thought that when he came to visit his daughter – “Can’t you see the three of us going out for breakfast?” Oh and he told daughter to make sure I get a house with a basement so he could stay with us when he came to visit- DELUSIONAL!!!!!
Been there. Have managed to not do that.
Several weeks ago, Tracy, you wrote something that continues to resonate with me.
“Please don’t die because of a Fuckwit.”
Duly noted.
It seems to me that narcissists drive you to the point where you go against yourself to save yourself. My mom is very kind and to protect herself she has to be unkind. If you see yourself as peaceful the narc drives you to rage. Chumplady was driven to hit someone for the first time in her life. They find your boundry and spend time trying to get you to undo your sense of self. Run.
Hi Chump Kid — I think the rage that erupts inside of us comes from them. Yes I do.
I think their stanky chaotic emotions get mixed up with ours. They feel better, because they sucked out our emotional health, and we feel enraged, because we took a hit of them.
Those horrible feelings, that you never felt before, Chumps? Yah, that’s their internal dynamic. Now you know what it’s like inside their “souls.”
I chose to hit him. Thanks for absolving me of responsibility, but we don’t drive people to do things. I preach that about infidelity, and it’s true with violence too.
The responsible thing would’ve been to leave and not engage. I took the bait.
It is tough not to take the bait. The OW stalked me and made contact numerous times to taunt me, call me names and offer advice in her manly voice.
I’m tough and could have flattened the cunt. I had too much to lose and knew the Limited put her up to it. The one comment that floored me was that she now had a granddaughter. MY granddaughter that I’ve supported and raised part time with her dad for most of her life.
If ever someone needed to be put out if her misery it was this cunt. In order to protect my granddaughter I decided to email copies her arrests, the drug charges and assault of an elderly man to the other grandmother and her dad.
In the end my granddaughter was the one who decided after spending a few hours with them that she wanted no part of the disordered cunt and a grandfather who abandoned.
The only place either on of them look good is sitting st a bar.
Remove yourself from the equation and fight for what’s legally yours.
The responsible thing in my opinion was to box his ears.
You were being assaulted again after having been assaulted through his actions and his dishonesty and his betrayal.
Responsibility, key word, you took responsibility for your actions. Just no contest, it is not in the realm for the disordered.
When my husband screamed at me, one foot away from my left ear drum (it still buzzes when I remember this), that he was a failure and that it was MY fault, I was so scared (he was driving on a highway) I kept totally quiet. Didn’t say a single word. I had been trying to talk about our retirement.
Later, in full pick-me-dance swing (I had 28371 signs of cheating, but spackled), I asked him why he thought he was a failure and he denied ever having done or said this. Incredible.
God, when I think of all the shit he poured down my throat.
I have not set eyes on sparkledick for over one year. It seems like ages, a thing in the mists of the past. I have gotten rid of absolutely EVERYTHING from him and his family. Sold, auctioned, given away, garbage.
But now, alas, there is my son’s wedding coming up and son says that morally he can’t consider not having his father at the party, but has uninvited him to the civil ceremony. I told my son that if his father tries any trick that I WILL kick his balls and/or throw a glass of wine in his face. Fuckwit must keep at least 20 meters away from me, no pictures, no conversation. Fuckwit was CRUEL to me, had FUN cheating on me all the while delighting in duping me and making me pay his family’s bills, etc.
I know what to expect: at the court hearing in March 2017 he shows up all sassy and smart and gives my should a friendly squeeze. I looked away and, according to my lawyers, he was so amazed and hurt that I did not return his pleasantries.
So then he flipped on the rage button and begins telling the court mediator how awful I am. And he flipped the poor sausage button: “But ClearWaters, you can trust me!” Says me: “Pray tell me how one goes about trusting a cheater?” Says Fuckwit: “But ClearWaters, I am NOT a cheater!” Says me: “Oh, really, then who is (latest AP-flatterfuck’s name)? Some extragalactic mirage?” Snorts from everyone in court. But the point is: I KNOW I have to have that glass of wine ready. And the party has a sour taste for me. O God help me be serene!
I was panicked about my son’s wedding but did a lot of things in advance to protect myself.
I helped make the wedding so I would have some say and control. I told him that anything he wanted to contribute financially he could give to the bride and groom as a gift.
I told him that he and his immediate family (who cruelly dropped me after DDay) could come as my guests but that the OW could not attend. Ex and his family were seated on the other side of the reception from me and my guests.
I hired a guard at the entrance with photos of her to make sure she could not eneter if she showed up (she didn’t).
He was given a time to come for photographs after all the other photos were taken. He got a photo with the bride and groom and one with his kids and that was it.
I also hired an event planner to make sure my ex didn’t go anywhere near my friends’ tables during the reception. Every time he crossed the midline of the hall, she told him he had to go back to his table.
I worried a lot about walking down the aisle with the jackass on the other side of my son. When the procession started, I totally forgot that he was even there and just focused on me and my son.
The only thing I didn’t think of was to prearrange for someone to dance with me after the mother/son dance. Luckily my brother jumped up and saved me from an uncomfortable moment.
I can say it was a wonderful day – I danced and enjoyed the whole party while he sat at his table on his iPhone.
My son got married here in France last year too and I was dreading the Twat showing up back from the States. Actually it was ok. I kept my distance from him and we were cordial when we had to be but in the end it had to be about my son and his wife not me and the Twat. I knew he wouldn’t try to provoke me unless he was drunk but I made sure I left well before he got drunk – which of course he did! Good luck with the wedding.
Clearwaters, your ex will more than likely bait you to throw the wine or make some sort of scene. By now he knows what will set you off…..please don’t fall into the trap. You’ll look bad, not the cheater. This is your son’s day. Not yours or your ex cheater’s.
Learn to do the best eye roll on the planet. I did it lots during the last few years and it came out later how much it bothered him.
Seriously why waste a glass of wine or even water when you can send a message of complete dismissal and disdain by simply rolling your eyes at any attempt to get your attention
You don’t even have to look directly at him just a roll in his general direction will do
He was screaming in your face and you reacted that way because he was a threat.
You wouldn’t have boxed his ears had he not been in your personal space and had you not felt physically threatened. You defended yourself. If he had been a stranger doing that, would you still feel you acted wrongly?
I’ve been a physically abused spouse. There is a difference between exacting revenge and getting the threat the hell out of your face.
I’m in total agreement with you that emotionally abused partners often lash out in self-defense, but the law doesn’t see it that way. I know a woman whose husband was emotionally abusive and said any number of horrible things to her, so she threw a glass of water at him. When the police arrived (neighbors had heard the fight), they told her that SHE would have been the one to be charged for domestic violence, but they were letting her off with a warning.
Words don’t count as weapons in domestic abuse cases, only physical acts, and there are lots of women with records for lashing out at their abuser. Perfectly understandable, but sadly, it can come with consequences. I know of one Men’s Right site that actually advocates goading a woman into hitting the man so that she gets a DV charge.
No, words don’t, but screaming in someone’s face up close and personal to the point of where you fear physical violence, is by definition, intimidation and just as illegal as assault.
But then, I also come from a state where stand your ground and castle doctrine laws apply and where I am not obligated to retreat if I can.
I completely agree with you, but legally it will largely depend on which police officer shows up to your house as to whether they believe the person who claims his/her spouse was up in her/his face, or whether they believe the handprint across the other person’s face.
I hope Datdamwuf will chime in here; she was framed for domestic violence by her then-Husband. She estimated that half the women in her 6-person DV rehab group had also been either framed, or blamed for violence that the man had started.
Stillhere/GoneforGood posted a story the other day about a nasty encounter with the OW in a restaurant, which resulted in Sh/GfG being arrested for dumping a glass of ice tea on her X’s head (if I recall the story correctly). The person who goads the partner into a physical altercation is rarely held accountable.
I don’t want to post the whole thing but Tempest is correct. Ex set me up for a DV charge, found out later he learned how from a DV site. He then pulled a gun on me months later. Be damn careful leaving abusers. The time I spent in jail that night was more traumatic than the gun being pulled on me. To this day I have a deep fear of the cops, something I never had before. The cops were complicit in ex setting me up, they helped him do it. Cop lied on his report. Do not trust in justice.
Stillhere/GoneforGood–thanks for correcting my muddled story.
KB22–Dat’s X certainly wanted to be able to stay in her house; overall I suspect powe & monetary gain are the main motivation behind spouses who set up their partners for DV charges.
Interesting how narcs will set up their spouses to be arrested for DV. I’m guessing it is one way to be able to stay in the home and file an RO? I know of a couple of cheaters (both men) that did this to their OWives….again interesting.
Just to clarify… It was Her head it was dumped on.
He can go away now after 35 years. My final straw.
And that is not how it should be.
The narrative needs to change.
That’s the mindfuck of domestic abuse. Feeling like we can control the actions of our abuser. That we “know” what they would or wouldn’t do. That what they were doing to us “wasn’t that bad” because we were “strong enough to take it,” and that we have the choice to “walk away and not engage.”
Bullshit.
It’s not that same as suddenly a hard penis presented itself to you and you had no choice but to jump on it!
My God. This article brought me to tears.
CL is right on !!
The terrible tragedy of this true story is not surprising. I’ve read a few articles where violence such as this actually took place. No one understands the humiliation & total devestation a cheater causes the innocent spouse unless you’ve experienced it.
But going to this extreme doesn’t help anyone. Two lives were lost over a waste of a person who didn’t give
a shit about either of them.
I pray that any of us chumps or newbies understand that
our life will improve when we leave the cheating narc.
Go no contact & free yourself from toxic waste.
Thanks for addressing this! Like others here, I can remember those dark days & why I had to move as far away from X as I could for my emotional health & his safety!
I wish our media, society, & mental health professionals would take the same approach of addressing this as you have.
She snapped & the husband can take responsibility for it & both deaths
True, the husband should take responsibility for both deaths, but it’s unlikely he will. He will probably gleefully change his status to “widowed” on his dating profiles, and happily reel in the unsuspecting women for whom that word is irresistible.
I guess I’m sounding very cynical today. But I have noted that 99% of the dating profiles of men on Match in my area say that they are widowed. Really? Sounds like an epidemic of female deaths. Either that or predators and low-lifes know that many women feel safer dating a widower.
Such a sad story. He will work it to his advantage. Cheaters are gifted in that way.
I noticed the huge amount of “widowers” too FB. As UNM said, I’m sure it’s their way of trying to reel women in but far from finding it reassuring, I found it weird and a huge red flag. Just another reason I gave up on online dating. The last thing I want at this stage in my life is to start a relationship with a liar.
I won’t date a widower. There is no wayI want to compete with the memory of a dear sweet wife that he wishes wasn’t dead.
Just no.
I responded to one dating profile for someone claiming to be widowed and he was a catfish. If you ask about their wife, they just say its too upsetting to discuss and try to reel you in.
Statistically…in their 50s, men die at like 4x the rate of women, so most of these people are full of shit. Im sure there are real widowers out there…I doubt they need dating profiles.
Terrible story CL. Although I managed to contain my anger to focus my energy towards raising my infant and toddler after DDay, I still to this day would not be sorry if he came to some unfortunate ending, through natural disaster, or losing his footing on one of the many hiking holidays he chose to take instead of knowing his kids. It would have been easier to mourn his loss than deal with the abandonment. We would not have lost his family or mutual friends. The children would have had a deeper community around them. But nearly 5 years out, the strength of the independence and closeness we have gained as a family of three is just beautiful.
I am curious to watch this unfold. The story doesn’t add up.
– Why would the husband say he went to the OW’s house solely because the OW didn’t meet him if he also got a string of texts from the wife detailing her plan?
– Why would he only know the OW was inside and say “my wife might be inside” if he had this aforementioned string of texts?
– Why would the wife put on a disguise to take public transit to the OW’s house only to break in and “lay in wait” to kill a person then commit suicide? What, someone on the bus would see her and say “Hey, Jennair, are you going to Meredith’s to kill her?”
It just all sounds so fishy. It won’t surprise me if the husband turns out to be more involved.
SAME! This happened in my town and it is all anyone is talking about. So much of this doesn’t add up.
I feel bad for the mistresses’ husband though. Poor guy has barely been mentioned in all of this and he was very much a victim too- cheated on and his wife was publicly murdered.
Ugh. Now that cheating shit head is free to find himself another chump, as if this story wasn’t tragic enough.
Unless you are protecting your children, there is no human being on this planet worth killing another human being over, least of all a cheater.
The ex, in an attempt to make light of my discovery, made a flippant remark about me hurting or killing the OW. I told him that he wasn’t worth spending the time in jail if I was convicted of murder. Neither was she. That didn’t top the list of reasons why I would never hurt or kill her but that was the reason that would knock him off his self made pedestal. The look on his face was priceless.
My reason is that so have not desire to parent from jail.
I have no desire.
But I do have fat fingers apparently. ????
Tracy, I think you are being too hard on yourself. I don’t believe it was a streak of violence coming out in you. I think it was your instinct for survival kicking in. This great big man was in your face, threatening you on every level, screaming at you well inside your safety zone. Your limbic system took over and acted to get you away from him.
I had the same thing happen when my first husband, cheater ex #1. He had me pinned up against a wall with his forearm pressed against my throat cutting off my air. On the verge of blacking out, I kneed him in the balls. He had been screaming at me, had snatched my glasses off my face an had thrown them. (I am legally blind without my glasses.) I didn’t think about kneeing him beforehand, I just did it automatically. I think that is our survival mechanism activating, and it’s not a conscious thing.
That being said, I do believe however, under the right circumstances, anyone is capable of murder. Frankly, If I had known that cheater ex (#2) was planning to murder my son, and the only was to save my child was to take cheater ex out before he could act, he would have been toast. I would have gone to jail happily, joyfully knowing my son was saved and could live to grow up and have a life.
As it turned out cheater ex took care of that himself.
I agree with you, Tessie. We are all capable of self-defense, and even of murder, under the right (wrong?) constellation of circumstances. But some people make no effort to suppress those urges, and we call them sociopaths.
Tessie. You are mighty. And I think you’re right about this. I wish Tracy would stop being all chumpy about blaming herself for boxing the bully’s ears to protect herself.
This is a new foundation piece. This column will save lives.
I have waited two years for CL to direct her powerful, piercing intellect to this topic. Who knows what genetic soup predisposes me to it- but I have vivid, medieval fantasies about “addressing”the X and the OW.
Let me be clear: I have a lot to lose. I come from a good family. I get my hair highlighted and smile when people make jokes. I bring appropriate and tasty baked goods to pot lucks.
Didn’t matter.
If I had access to a gun- I could have been Jennair. Wanted to be her. Did the cost/benefit analysis of how much prison time I could bear. I know a lot about prison, and even asked my clients tips on how to survive. They told me it was a living hell- like living in a coffin with the lowest critter you could imagine with body odor and a bad attitude.
Didn’t matter.
I was so shattered and bitter and shocked I would have pitied MY cell mate.
What saved me? Reading this column. Sorrow for my mother if I went through with it. And just the vertigo inducing knowledge that the world would see ME as the monster.
Journalists quoted this POS OW as “fiercely committed to her family.” Really? But giggles and confetti cupcakes in blowing up other’s families? I have no sympathy for her. None. Not a flicker.
Blowing up someone’s entire life is not a fog, it is not a bump in the road. It is life or death business. The only reason more of this does not happen is that the CHUMPS are too decent to pull the plug. They are making grilled cheese sandwiches, buying dog food, bathing children and downloading Turbo Tax to get the taxes done.
And CL’s shattering, magnificent line regarding the possibility of him crafting a dating profile is what slaps you fully awake. I saw him, in my mind’s eye, making sexy eyes at the funeral home receptionist as Kennair lies in a morgue- rigor mortis cold and vilified.
Oh Rosamunde, although I didn’t entertain murdering a fuckwit, I sure did wish he had just died instead. It would’ve been so much easier to grieve and have that support of everyone to get me and the kids through it. But instead I got to witness him fucking around with DD14’s 20 something asst sport coach. Not his first schmoopie and I’m guessing not the last. But the last for me anyway.
I do think this site has the power to save others. I so wish she could’ve come here for support and to know that her life wasn’t worth losing over him or his schmoopie. The best revenge is to really let 2 cheaters have at each other. It’s hard to not think the OW/OM caused all of this. It’s hard to think you’ve thrown away many years on a partner who was never worthy of you.
It is so sad.
I threatened to punch my ex in the face in front of his colleagues at the public defender’s office. And go to the OWs house and punch her in the face. I would have welcomed a night in jail for the opportunity to tell everyone at the courthouse about their affair (OW was a divorce lawyer getting a divorce from her divorce lawyer husband). I never did it because I was afraid of losing custody of the kids.
In the end, I did punch him a bunch of times because he refused to leave the house and I didn’t want to have to call the cops in front of the kids. He did not attempt to hit me back, but he also didn’t leave until the next day. Honestly, I felt better having got out out some of my anger on him. My punches only landed a couple of times and didn’t cause harm. But it felt good to physically express my anger and disdain for him. Looking back now, I know that was a dangerous thing to do. It’s taken me a while to understand what a psychopath he is.
If he died today, I’d be happy for my kids. The life insurance policy would pay for their college and they could grow up ignorant of his true self.
I don’t condone violence, I am being honest about my experience.
Your words ring so true, Twice, and raise the question, “What if it was like that?” What if, when cheaters cheat, the societal response was to rally around the chump, not just by immediate family and friends, but none of this Switzerland friends, no, ‘two sides to a story’ bullshit, but what if that happened, if other people as a rule recognised the tragic impact the infidelity had on the lives of the chumps and supported them to recovery? How different things would be. One of the big things about this circumstance is the lack of recognition of the devastation it wreaks on Chumps. It’s impact is equivalent the shock of a sudden death, and this is just not recognised by those who haven’t been through it. I would also like to see cheaters ostrasized aka consequences, but that’s just me.
Where is the red letter when you need it. Of course it would need to be applied to both sides and only if one or the other was already in a recognized primary relationship.
I don’t wish either ex or Schmoopie dead, but I so wish them shunned, at least until they break up and go find other partners who aren’t married.
Nah, the AP gets a big AP in red letters too, you are being overly generous in your literal interpretation of The Rules. Your meh is impressive.
You misunderstood. Both cheater and AP get the red letters (both sides). I just don’t want it to apply to people who aren’t married (some cultures consider any unmarried sex to be adultery and I disagree there).
Ah, got you now, thanks for clarifying.
Well-stated, Rosamund.
This story has special significance for me because I lived in Radnor (where it took place) for 13 years before moving to TX with Hannibal Lecher. Upon reading the news feed, one of my thoughts was, “There but for the grace of God, go I.”
The feelings of despair and agony make chumps think horrible thoughts and sometimes act on those thoughts. It is such a tragedy.
Xhole told me during wreckconciliation that he had hid the gun he kept beside the bed the day I found out about the howorker. I told him, “you just really don’t know me at all.” But later I realized he wasn’t worried as much about himself, but he thought he was so super special that I might use it on me.
The saddest thing is that this situation continues to play out. The details may be slightly different and it may not get the same amount of press. But people are dying over infidelity and many times it is the innocent chump. So unbelievably sad and preventable.
“These feelings are finite.” “The best revenge is living without him.” Preach on, CL.
Narcs have nothing at their epicentre, so their destructiveness always radiates outwards, where as the chumps of the world usually tend to turn all that pain, rage sadness etc on themselves, for lack of an outlet that won’t be damaging to others (considerate to the last!). I understand where she was, the utter misery, the feeling of being trapped in something that seems endless, the need to do something to take her power back, even though in the end it was self-destructive. Maybe she went there meaning to kill those two, but then once she realised he wasn’t there, but probably more importantly that having her revenge on the OW didn’t change her horrendously painful feelings, then she turned it on herself. I’d like to hear from other chumps about their self-care routines or rather their constructive ways of dealing with the incredibly negative emotions that come with this circus. I’ve had the most horrendous couple of days, after being okay for a while where I just feel absolutely tortured by the reality of my life, by the fact he did this and whatever the future holds, I can’t change the fact that he chose to do this, no matter how sorry he is now and trying to make nice, and ruminating on the emails I found between them where they both absolutely tore me down, me with a new baby while he’s salivating over her flat stomach and hot body. And I’m supposed to conduct myself in a respectful manner towards those fuckwits. So anything productive that helps alleviate the pain, please, I’m all ears.
SOTC, Music, Netflix, Exercise, Classes (ceramics at the local JC), Time Outside, Gardening, and Work. Lean on your support network. In those early days, I was that wounded fox licking my wounds, so I walked up and down country roads until I was beyond tired. I swam in the lake every day and recognized that I needed to direct my energy where it was most important, myself and my kids. I also told my children, who were all into their late teens, that they too needed to take care of themselves, to be selfish, to keep doing well in school, and to focus on their own lives. Infidelity sucks but so much of what we preach here helps. Move forward, focus on your life.???? Working out is great with children too…. I have good memories of those years, even when I was struggling with my broken heart, the sun on my skin let me know I had much to look forward to.
Thank you all for your kind suggestions and words of encouragement and support.
He sucks.
These disordered subhumans are not like you and me.
Sorry and trying to make nice?
Fraud. Liar. Image above all else.
You got away. Stay away. Don’t let this disgusting fucktard anywhere near your goodness.
Zero contact.
Your ex & his skank of a whore are pigs…….one thing having an affair while your wife is pregnant or just had a baby…..but to denigrate the wife on top of everything is beyond disgusting. How anyone could engage in that banter is mind boggling. Does the skank think she’ll be impervious to a flabby belly after giving birth? Hopefully she’ll never produce but still…..
I know it sucks right now but down the road the thought of him will make your skin crawl if it doesn’t already. He’s a defective weakling and good riddance. I wish you all the best in your new life free of that creep.
Disloyal fucker
He makes me sick.
Fuck off
Because my cheater is dead, I fear that people consider me suspect, but I never hurt him.
Every once in a while , he got my head into a wrestling lock and reminded me that he could snap my neck if he wanted to. I told him I knew that.
Once I was on my hands and knees to pulling weeds and he came along standing over me and made a threatening/menacing gesture (outside where my neighbors could see which humiliated me) from the ground, I swatted him on the ankles to get him to stop and that manipulative asshole yelled “you hit me!!” then went into the garage and destroyed a dryer with a curved claw hammer…what is it that CL calls that “non-equivalencies”.
Im with CL of get the hell out and dont waste what might be a good life killing a cheater or Schmoopie. If there are times of real self protection, that is different, but Jennair might have had some good years ahead despite her heartbreak and now she doesnt.
As an aside, the threatening/menacing gesture my cheater made at me, he learned that from his dad. (It was a “pretend” slap punch where he almost hit but backed off at the last second and hit his hand instead…as if there were anything ok or decent about that). I sort of wish that at some point in the past, I would have confronted his father on that horrible behavior but I never did and now he is old and griefstricken
Wow, I slap you, you destroy property. Scary and I’m glad you’re out, Uni. Can I ask, and you may have addressed this before – I know the shock of discovering what your cheater really was after his death must have been horrible, but did you find things easier (do you think) having support from people for his death, rather than playing out in divorce, or did it make you angry that he wasn’t there to be accountable? Did you tell people what you found, or did you keep it secret but secretly rail against people talking about him respectfully after death, when you knew he was a royal asshole?
I am normally a very integrated person so living with any sorts of compartments really go against my parenchymal grain. I cant tell everyone what he did but i do tell people when i know it wont get back to my kids or his parents. My mow husband thinks its weird to tell anyone, he doesn’t realize that i HAVE to tell.
I think his death with the outpouring of goodwill was easier than an ugly divorce, but im furious that he avoided accountability and i cant scream at him. He would, however, never admitted what he did.
There are times when I speak of his death as a way of letting people know that i suffered but not letting on that my suffering isnt what they think it was.
I really admire your matter-of-factedness about the whole thing. Thank you for your answer.
My ex is bipolar so when he was manic he could go 4 days without sleep. Consequently I wasn’t allowed to sleep whenever he was awake but I still had to drag myself in to work every day and feed the kids and ….. One night I was chopping vegetables for dinner when he staggered in roaring drunk and started in on me about God only knows what. Right in my personal space, prodding me and yelling with his drunken, cigarette stinking breath. I had the knife in my hand from cutting the veg and I thought “all it would take would be one movement and me and the kids wouldn’t have to put up with this ever again”. Then I thought, no, I ain’t going to prison for that toe rag. BUT, unlike the lady in the story, my killing him would have been spur of the moment, non-premeditated had I done it. Again though I absolutely understand her despair and why she did it, although had she taken him with her it would have been a better ending for everyone.
I propositioned OW #1 and #3 (same ex HS sweetheart) & OW #2 to good old fashioned fist fights. Yeah, I’d never fought anyone my whole life yet here I was reduced to trying to keep my husband by duking it out. WTF?? I laugh now because of the absurdity of it, but I wasn’t laughing at the time. Killing anybody, even him never crossed my mind.
Just a couple of days ago, I ran into a friend of mine who was instrumental in my last DDay with OW #1/#3. Apparently, OW #1/#3 attempted suicide after I called her husband the day after my divorce was final to give a heads up that my XH was now a free man and to not be surprised if they continued to hook up. I also told him of their involvement years earlier when I was pregnant with our first child. Her husband knew about them & apologized for not contacting me sooner, although he was shocked to hear that this wasn’t their first rodeo so to speak. Do I feel bad that she tried to take her own life as a result of me calling her husband? Nope, not one bit. I am a little disappointed that whatever method she chose didn’t work, though. *shrugs*
Yeah, to my shame, I imagined good old fashioned girl fights. And I would have beaten her to a pulp, although I rate very highly on the agreeableness scale usually.
Full disclosure…for a while I wished for a chance to give Susan of Seattle one good punch in the face.
I wished no permanent injury or harm, just one fair shot. (I have tiny hands and tyrannosaurus rex arms so I really couldnt hurt anyone) but I would have liked one chance. I never got my chance and now that moment has passed.
I found out at 7 months pregnant so I ended up having a vivid DREAM where I axe murdered main OW, not exactelly what you want when you are near giving birth
I would never act on it nor do I have dreams about anymore (3 yrs passed), however once in awhile I still daydream these scenarios:
1) she goes surfing and gets ripped apart by sharks
2) I happen to stumbl on her on a jungle path and she got letally snake bit and I dont help her but sit down to watch her die
Would she someday die I would be quite thrilled, for they were unbelievably crurl to me during my pregnancy and my father had just died) and such utter disregard to my baby, fuck them
I wish Jennifer would have found CL… in five yrs she might have been meh :/
crurl = cruel…typos, single working mom with no time to type
I posted a link to this story here yesterday. I live a thirty minute drive from where it happened and am in that area often for one thing or another. There are many details unknown at this time, as the story continues to unfold. Apparently he told his wife as far back as November that he wanted a divorce. She had left her husband and moved to another state for a new job, New house, fresh start. I am sure there was pain all around this situation, but murder and suicide are permanent solutions to temporary problems. It is tempting to rush to judgement, but the truth is none of us know the details of this situation. The bottom line is it’s a loss of two lives and it didn’t need to happen. I suppose when you are in that dark place, only your pain and how to stop it is your primary concern. It’s beyond sad, and I hope both women RIP
The comments are getting it right.
Please can someone with an account go onto the Washington Post and mention Chump Lady (leave a cheater, gain a life)?
I wanted to cut and past point 2.
Nobody plugs the REAL CHARACTER of people who cheat like Chump Lady does!
I don’t know. A lot of the comments seem to think the OW did nothing wrong. Just a charming young woman gunned down in cold blood for no reason by someone who was already crazy and the whole infidelity thing had nothing to do with it.
Many of the posters also seem to think that adultery in general is really no big deal. It is not a crime after all. Actually it is a crime in my state, it just isn’t enforced.
Talk about a walking on eggshells subject this morning. I am glad that CL is true to form and bold to address it.
My mind immediately went to point #2 last night when I read the story: Killing yourself and killing her will NOT MATTER to your cheater.
I can hear the cheater now: “I told you she was crazy!” Nobody would listen to me, the poor misunderstood sad sausage. Yeah, and he lost his twu luv too. Probably some brief show of tears because he is sad after all that he will now have to put forth some effort and find a new victim. BTW, I have seen no mention of her chump hubby from whom one article said she was separated. Never saw the word divorced, gee, seems to be 2 cheaters in the room.
This story is the exception in ending in death as are the stories where the chump ends up dead but the point is if you are the one percent, who cares that your odds are low. I think about that often that I don’t think cheater would commit violence but then you wonder, he has so many characteristics of someone who would, can I rule it out. In nearly every case of a serial killer etc, you see the obligatory interview with the neighbor who had no idea. There were red flags everywhere but these people were completely shocked. I look at my life, there were red flags everywhere that fuckwit was a narcissistic sociopath, but I was completely shocked when I found out he was a cheater for years.
I know I would never kill fuckwit or his whore or anyone but like many here, the thought has passed through my head. Most of us seem to know that it would make a bad situation worse. Why this woman didn’t come to that conclusion, we will probably never know.
So if chump lady speaking up and chumps talking uncomfortable subjects sways anyone against any destructive acts, that is yet another priceless function of this site.
Sometimes its the chumps who are killed by the OWs. I never understood why an OW would take it out on a chump when she is the one who actually had a right to the husband. Any way you look at it fucking someone else’s husband (or wife) is a really bad idea.
Usually the chumps are murdered by the OW because cheater has blamed his wife for them not being able to be together or in their delusional minds if the the wife is out of the way cheater & OW can be together. Plus most OW are not emotionally stable to begin with..
Oh yes. There but for the grace of God go I. If I had not had this forum, my life would be ruined, and there are two seedy soul sucking varmints who would be taking dirt naps.
Another critical point to remember is we are breathing rarefied air here.
I told one man about my cheating saga and he said to me in the most smart mouth but confident voice: so you weren’t treating your man right at home?
I was the energizer bunny when it came to sex. We are a very small minority who understands the power dynamic of cheating. The victim, and I’m referring to the wife, may have been surrounded by people who told her to lose weight or buy new lingerie in response to the Husband’s treacherous heart.
Agree., I was also lucky enough to have at least a few people who put the blame rightly on the cheater (and not on me, the chump). Even though Jennair made a bad choice, I do understand the temporary insanity that can happen with D-Day. Who knows, it’s likely she was being gaslighted by her husband and by the OW. It’s crazy-making.
I’ll just leave this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/on-gardasil/
I guess this comment can be deleted? When I refreshed the page the comment I was responding to was gone.
It’s way up on the top of the page.
The real tragedy is that the OW never got her chance to suffer real Karma and the wife never had a chance to gain a life.
Even before my ex turned out to be a cheater I was sympathetic to people who had violent reactions to infidelity. That surge of emotions and adrenalin can be difficult to contain and it was provoked. One of the cruelest aspects of infidelity is when it does make the chumps go crazy in one way or another. The worst part is when the cheater uses it as an excuse to say “see, (s)he’s crazy. Can you blame me for cheating” when the chump clearly wasn’t crazy before.
In my own case, I have never had physically violent rage fantasies. My fantasies mostly just involve me telling everybody off, but even that I generally try to avoid in real life because I don’t want to appear crazy by making a scene. I did rage at my ex a couple of times. The worst was when I discovered the charges for valentine’s flowers for Schmoopie on our joint credit card. All I could think was “she got flowers for Valentine’s day, I didn’t, and I paid for half those flowers”. I raged at ex and very nearly slapped him. Thank god I didn’t because if I had he could have used that against me in a passive sad sausage kind of way. The main fallout from that rage was my daughter overhearing and finding out about Schmoopie. Once I calmed down I was embarrassed at the time and felt bad that my daughter found out that way, but now I am glad she found out the truth even if it wasn’t in the calmest most controlled way. I had already tried to get ex to come clean on that sooner and he wimped out.
Meanwhile I avoid Schmoopie as best I can. Any reminder of them being together still hurts like hell. When I do see her it fills me with a sudden uncontrollable sense of rage which scares me because that isn’t normal for me. I don’t hate people. I just don’t. Until now. My usual reaction is to run away so that I don’t have to find out how I might react if we came face to face and I actually had to interact with her. In my fantasies I tell her off, everyone hears it and claps and cheers. In real life I fear that I might do something violent at worst or make a fool of myself at best. I avoid her for everyone’s sake. Meanwhile, my ex doesn’t understand why I can’t just get over it and be cordial to Schmoopie “for the sake of the kids”. He thinks I am just being petty and bitter by trying to ignore her and her very existence as best I can. Maybe I am being bitter, but I am not being petty. He is an insensitive clueless asshole.
That being said, the last thing I would want is for Schmoopie to die, either by my hand or otherwise. I don’t want her to die until long after she has fallen off that pedestal.
My very very best revenge would be if Schmoopie from Seattle lived a LONG life convinced that my deadcheater was the love of her life. If I had a chance to talk to her, it would sweeten the deal if I told her that she was his great love…then she could pine away forever.
So this news story was a topic of conversation last night at a dinner I attended. When folks started to get on the bandwagon that the OW deserved it… I spoke up. I said in no uncertain terms that she absolutely did not. She was not the problem, the cheating husband was the problem. It led to a very new discussion about adultery that was refreshing. #changingthenarrative #dinnerpartyconversation #livingwellbestrevenge #letkarmahandleit
Being murdered is not to the same degree as cheating with someone else’s husband.
The other woman may have been love bombed and tricked by a narc like many others.
However if the man was married and she was married and they had an affair while they were married there is wrongdoing being done on both parts.
I never knew what was in a murderer’s heart until I caught my husband in a motel room with another woman and I will always hate him for that.
Despair is a hard pill to swallow. I’ve been to that dark place too. I had been dealing with that shit for two years. And I snapped. I saw red. That’s the only way I can describe it. And I raged like I’ve never raged before. In front of my kids. And their friends. We had just gone to counseling that morning. He finally agreed to go with me. I had hope. And then he said he had to go to work. On a Saturday. He was an elementary school administrator. So was she. But he would only be there a couple hours. I had hope. He came home – I was tending our garden and the kids had friends over playing in the backyard. I had tried to call him several times and I got that dreadful Beep. The Beep that tells you they’re on the other line and choosing not to answer your call. “I tried calling you…” I eeked out. “I was talking to my MOM,” he scoffed. “Here look!” And he placed the phone in my hand. I tapped on the text bubble. And there it was. “ILY.” Their little code. I snapped. I tried to throw the phone over the wall, but he grabbed my wrist. I ran into the house. I overturned a kitchen chair. I slammed the bedroom door. I slammed the bathroom door. He followed me. The children were mortified. And I raged. I hit whatever was within striking distance. The door. The mirror. Him. Myself. I’m not even sure my eyes were open. He must have grabbed my arms to stop me because the next day I had bruised handprints on both of them. I had to wear long sleeves for a week to cover them. My knuckles were completely bruised. I had scratches on my chest. It was all self inflicted. And I never felt any physical pain. I tried to cover it with makeup, but my two best friends noticed when we went to brunch the next day. They didn’t know what had been going on for two years. Nobody did. Except me and him and her. I left the house that night and after failed attempts to reach my friends, I went to my mother in law. And told her. After two years of keeping it bottled up I spilled everything to the one person I knew would love him no matter what. I was still protecting him. I kicked him out of the bedroom a few weeks later and he moved out 4 months later. We’ve been divorced three years now. After 18 years of marriage and 27 years together. And I’m good. I’m not sad or angry anymore. Having two kids, I couldn’t go no contact. But I did figure out how to go no contact emotionally. I don’t engage in any sort of emotional contact with him at all. Negative or positive. It’s strictly business. And that’s what finally got me to my good place. But I understand that dark place.
I remember the dark place. The only time in my life I hit myself, my fists against my head, howling. I remember being so desperate. I’m glad we’re both in a better place now mamabear
Me too. On Dday, Cheater Douchebag was going out of town. When he got back home from his trip, he said, “I will sleep in our bed. You can sleep on the couch if you like.” I still have the texts and it still causes incredible pain to read them. I had slept on the couch once in awhile because he snores so loudly, so yeah he must have figured that would be a good option. I went outside and became hysterical. I paced back and forth and I howled. I called people until I found someone’s house I could stay at. I packed a weird motley assortment of stuff in a bag and got in the car. At that point I could have been Jennair. Soon after, good friends referred me to Chump Lady and her book. I felt myself drawing power from somewhere within me. Yeah I will get through this. I feel so sad that Jennair must not have had these same kinds of friends, or worse, she read and absorbed some of the trash published in the New York Times or absorbed some RIC garbage and felt she was to blame. It breaks my heart.
As horrible as this is….. and it’s horrible…. until you have been thru it with a cheater and the crazy they put you through! Add in the mind games from the ow and there can be a recipe for disaster.
I highly recommend just dumping a large sweet tea on their head. Even if it gets you arrested. That good feeling doesn’t go away!
Yes! You might get a ticket for the iced tea dump, but everyone will be laughing at the Cheater and the OW and cheering for you.
So, it would be worth it. And no blood spilled.
For me, the pain of infidelity wasn’t the sex with the OW. It was the Pick Me Dance. It was the gas lighting, the manipulation, the lies, the blame shifting. I spent a solid two years with the god awful feeling of failing a test I didn’t even know I was taking.
When OW came to light, demanding my ex to leave me, demanding that he answer her calls even as he was breaking my heart (and she knew it) – my god the scars that has left on me. I will never be the same. I feel two years past dday that I will never be whole again.
And even after the immediate shock of dday, and here I am coming up on the one year anniversary of our divorce being final it still kills me that he (outwardly) has it all. A new wife. Solid career. Two earner household. Trips. It feels he has been rewarded, that he is still benefitting from the life we built together while I get to start from nothing but debt.
I hate him as much today as I did when he left. And I don’t want to be like this, but god damn is it hard.
So this is my long winded way to say I understand what drove her to it, as well as all the other Bitter Bunnies out there who went this route just as I say I understand what drove all the unnamed and presumably unmourned chumps out there who commit suicide. Remember that Kennedy wife? Not content with just fucking around and divorcing her, the Kennedy asshole drove her into a state of poverty she knew she could never overcome (a fair divorce trial in Mass against a Kennedy? what would be the odds?) so she hung herself even as he was on red carpets posing with his whore girlfriend.
It is maddening. I mean that literally. It is soul crushing.
As to why I never did anything stupid? Because some blessed soul on Reddit pointed me here three days after Dday. Because I found glimpses of my own mighty reading about others who found theirs. Because I would never give my ex what he wanted most – me out of his life in such a way that would garner his Sad Sausage Points for infinity.
I understand what drove this poor woman and the Kennedy wife. I understand it, but I wish they both would have found Chumplady and found another way instead.
Calm, Your response to this is so heartfelt. So many lives were impacted…Infidelity is no small matter.
I can relate to Calmafterstorm. Although I am trying to gain a (good and noble) life, it seems as though my exes have been doing much better than me (financially, professionally, socially, romantically, emotionally, physically) for years and are going strong with their current partners.
I subscribe to Chump Lady’s admonishment to ‘Not worship false gods (put adulterers/liars on a pedestal).’
However, not all cheaters/liars care if you, their loyal partner, are doing well. I am sure that my last boyfriend does not care what or how I am doing. He does not value me–seems as though he never really did (at least after the love-bombing phase ended). Soon after he discarded me (when he decided to ‘win’ my replacement), he completely blocked me from all channels of communication. I was suicidal for some months after he discarded me the first time (until he wreckonciled with me). At second discard, I realized that he lied, disrespected me, and just didn’t care about/value me. I felt horrible but not so suicidal as I realized that he might not know and wouldn’t care if I died. If he found out, he would say, ‘See. She was mentally unstable. I tried to help her, but alas, there was no saving her!’ [Cue false grief.]
I wish that I believed that ‘living well is the best revenge.’ It’s not revenge. But it makes sense to try to live well. There is no Karma (in the western definition of it). Life, in some ways to some, is unfair.
RSL, your ex husband is an asshole.
Your ex boyfriend is also an asshole.
You are NOT an asshole.
I wish you cared less about what they think, say, so, or feel. They aren’t worth the mental real estate that you give them.
Thanks, Lola Granola. I felt very good about my work (research) today but felt sad that I couldn’t share thus ‘victory’ with my ex-boyfriend. I thought, ‘He might respect me and feel proud of me (for once).’. I realized that it would help to be my own cheerleader and not feel let down that I can’t share the news with someone who doesn’t give a d–n about me. Why should I be surprised, years before he and I dated, he kicked to the curb a beautiful, very accomplished psychologist a month after she moved interstate to be with him. Going to try to just ‘internally’ celebrate what I am doing right/well, knowing that I am proud of myself and it doesn’t matter if anyone else knows or appreciates the value I bring.
I absolutely fantasized about killing OW#1. I could have done it by sabotaging something in her home that I have industrial expertise in and I would not have needed to use a gun. Probably would have been undetected. She dumped the X when I confronted her but I still had revenge fantasies.
But is was foolishness. She had a 4YO little girl and I couldn’t live with her being killed as a side effect of the righteous death of the mother. Not OK.
I admit that I have wished she would get cancer or something still. I mean, little innocent kids and all sorts of kind people are stricken, why can’t the scythe of death be aimed at this POS? I wouldn’t harm her but am not above wishing her dead. I have wished my cheater X, father of my children, dead too.
Strangely I don’t have any such feelings for OW#2, the one I was ultimately abandoned for. Odd.
I hope I can get beyond all of that one day, at least it does not occur to me very often.
My first thought when I heard this story was that I could understand her anger and pain and why she did it. The pain and grief was so intense I don’t know how I survived. This website keeps me on track.