Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

A New Monogamy?

Here’s a therapy mindfuck if ever I read one — after you’ve been cheated on and you want to reconcile the marriage — strive for a “new monogamy.”

This nonsense in today’s Huffington Post (which could really keep me in material indefinitely) by Dr. Tammy Nelson. The same person who gave you: “Affairs happen because of opportunity.” No, you quack — they happen because of entitlement. Lack of character. Opportunity is everywhere — on every bar stool, office cubicle, and online dating service. What keeps our fingers in the dyke against an onslaught of “opportunities” are boundaries and a moral compass.

Apparently not. When your partner goes slunking off after (cough) opportunity, according to Dr. Nelson, you’re supposed to own what you did to drive them away from the marriage, recommit! and strive for a New Monogamy.

What part of monogamy does Nelson not understand? The “mono” part? It means “alone,” “single,” “ONE.”

When monogamy is broken – it is broken! Like virginity, monogamy is a one-time thing.  You’ve either fucked or you haven’t.  The New Monogamist is every bit as deranged as the Born Again Virgin. You’re fervently wishing that defining event didn’t happen and so you’ll just spackle yourself a new name and pretend that it didn’t. What? You’re not convinced by my new branding campaign?

Assuming you can reconcile (I do believe in unicorns, I do!), I would think radical honesty is essential. “I fucked around because I wanted to. I put your health and well-being far beneath my desires. It was not a loving act. I didn’t love you while I did it, I loved me.” These are all things I would need to hear — not some blame shifting crap of how their Needs Were Not Met and I drove them to it.

And I certainly would not want to sit in a chair, shattered and vulnerable, across from a shrink like Dr. Tammy Nelson who wants me to own my part in this abuse and paint me a happy, ever after — in which after some hard conversations, gosh, we have insight into how we both suck, but now we can rebuild towards a New Monogamy.

If monogamy means anything, there should be gravitas when it is broken. In this therapy model, no, monogamy is like one of those avatars in World of Warcraft — you can kill it over and over and over again, but it comes back from the dead, ready for a new game.

Fuck that shit.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Unbelievable! God, I love this site and ChumpLady! I’ve gained so much more useful insight and understanding here than I did in 9 months of expensive therapy.

    In my book, we both took our marriage vows together of sound mind knowing what marriage meant – love between TWO people, you know, the ones who took the vows together! That was my gift to him, and lovingly given. STBX acts like he didn’t “know” I wouldn’t like it. He even said to me, “I think we should reconcile because our marriage will be STRONGER because of my affairs.” WTF???? No, our marriage was deliberately ANNIHILATED because of your affairs.

    So lame.

  • I have an even better idea for Dr. Nelson’s prospective cheater clients:


    Hire someone to cook, clean, and run errands. Sleep around with other willing, single partners who also want to sleep around, if you must. That seems to be the dynamic that cheaters are looking for when they cheat– someone to take care of the domestic duties and someone ELSE to play Passion Palace with. The potential cheater can still enjoy that dynamic WITHOUT screwing with someone else’s heart and mind!

    In this day and age, when divorce appears to be declining likely because fewer couples are rushing to the altar (or they’re putting it off until they’re older), how does it make sense to enter into a committed relationship with someone who wants the “old” monogamy if you don’t? We don’t “have” to get married and have kids anymore. While cheating has never been right, it makes even far less sense to me that it exists today in this day and age when familial obligations have lessened and divorce is an option.

    I guess it boils down to that need for Ego Kibbles, and I’ll never understand that since I’m not a cheater.

    • Moving on:

      Your logic is too, well…….logical and normal.

      Cheaters are twisted and illogical.

      Their twisted logic compels them to marry because cheating while married makes the forbidden, illicit, sleazy sex all the more exciting.

      Also, they like having mommy at home taking care of all the mommy stuff, while the go off on a date like a horney teenager.

      You see, it’s not just that they marry to have someone to cook and clean. It’s because they want someone to love them and nurture them unconditional, so they can act out and have sex like a surly teenager.

      All teenagers act out against Mommy.

      • And when you don’t love and nurture them unconditional (as in call them on the crap anyone would call them on) they come to the conclusion that mummy doesn’t REALLY love them so they deserve to go find it somewhere else. But mummy doesn’t need to know.

      • Jeeze, that’s just about *exactly* what I was thinking… well said!

        The whole point of cheating, is, well…cheating…. if you’re a solo person, where’s the fun? /cheater mindset/

        • Agreed. STBX swiftly enmeshed himself with current OW and was saying, after a couple of months, that he was going to spend his life with her. Really? You are a serial cheater and now you’re going to jump directly into another relationship and think it won’t happen again? No thinking through what happened? No figuring out what led you to screw around your entire life? Just get another person hooked and off you go? I pity current OW the more I think about the situation. That one is in for a very ugly wakeup call one day.

      • Yeah, Sara, I agree. All these women cheaters who want a mommy at home etc…
        WTF is up with that?

        • Arnold, sorry, that I left out the psychology of all those women cheaters.

          Here’s my totally unprofessional and likely worthless take on why married women cheat on their loyal husbands.

          Women cheaters want a daddy figure in their life. One who pampers and indulges them like daddy did, while their daddy ignored their mommy.

          They love their daddy and hate their mommy.

          If a loyal husband treats them like an equal and doesn’t indulge and pamper them like their emotionally incestuous daddy, who ignored his wife to indulge his daughter……., they go after some other married guy who is ignoring his wife ’cause he reminds them of their daddy and the affair partner’s wife is symbolic of the mommy they hate.

          So the cheating wife gets to symbollically get even with both mommy and the husband whom they foolishly feel doesn’t pamper and indulge them enough in their unrealistic mind, by finding an affair partner.

          If they find a married man who indulges them while ignoring their own wife, all the better.

          Sorry I left that out. 😉

          • Believe it or not, Sara, you have exactly described the dynamic with both my XW’s relationship with their parents: doting, dad who they hero worshipped and a cold, neglectful, P/A mom.

    • Moving On,

      “It all boils down to that need for Ego Kibbles”

      I think you hit the nail on the head.

      I don’t think gender really factors into it. People who cheat are selfish and believe they are entitled to a different set of rules.

      I believe some of the really over-the-top ones honestly live in a different reality from the rest of us.

      My husband was actually more concerned about how much he was hurting and dis-respecting his girlfriend (which I should call my mistress, as I was the one financing her), than he was with how much he was hurting and disrespecting his wife.

      But my husband started out the decision to get married before he even met me. I was just the lucky chump he picked. He’s since acknowledged that he deliberately said and did whatever he thought I needed to see and hear to seal the deal and walk down the aisle.

      How do I trust someone who believes its okay to lie someone into a nine year marriage?

      I mean, there are unashamed sleazeballs at the local bar who think that’s over the line.

      How often do you get to say your Ex has fewer morals than the standard issue jack (or jenny) ass?

  • This guy irritates the fuck out of me. Essentially he just keeps coming up with excuses as to why people just ‘have’ to cheat. I’m getting an earful over there at HuffPo by being somewhat *cough* outspoken in the divorce section (a Leann Rimes has started stalking me–I’m a loser who drove my husband away according to him).

    No more excuses. I used to think one could get over an affair. I don’t think that anymore. Anyone ever cheats on me again and I’m done. No discussion, no anything. Just go.

    I like this new me.

      • No, one of her fans after I commented in a Team Brandi kind of way, basically saying that Rimes is a cheating hobag and while Glanville is a bit unpolished at least she’s a straight shooter, not a lying cheater and mindfucker.

        Then again, it could be Rimes. She’s nuts enough to stalk people on the internet. She’s been known to ‘disguise’ herself using fake names to argue about her schmoopie boopie love, etc.

        Plus, she looks like Falcor.

        • Oh, okay. Well, that’s good, I guess.

          For me, all those celebrity things — that is not real life. Honestly, those people are all really serious narcissists. You kind of have to be to be an actor. They pretty much all give as good as they get.

          Best example: Jennifer Aniston vs. Angelina Jolie. Everyone was so invested in Jennifer and hating on Angelina for the Brad Pitt thing, but the reality is, Jennifer Aniston was just as big of an OW as Angelina was. In fact, I used to work for a man who had an affair with Jennifer Aniston BEFORE Brad ever left her (not excusing Brad’s cheating, nor am I fan of Angelina, but just saying — Jennifer was not an innocent; which then became crashingly obvious when she go together with this dude she’s engaged to now.) Of course the official line from my former boss there was: “The marriage is practically over… but they just aren’t divorced yet…” Okaaaayyy…

          Whatev. *eye rolling for celebrity “specialness”* They should be forced to watch their own movies on a loop.

  • Wow!!! Talk about blaming the victim . This is just another way for the cheater to blame their fuckedupness on the person they cheated on. It sounds like the Dr. Is suggesting that we should play the pick me game in order to keep the eye of the cheater. That type of thinking will just keep you in a dead end relationship that will just be a viscous cycle. So sad that this type of advice is coming from a educated person.

    • Yes, it’s all about figuring out what’s wrong with YOU that s/he just HAD to cheat. You DROVE THEM TO IT!!! Get it through your head!!!

  • Oh for fuck’s sake. Now I’ve read everything. These people with the pro-reconciliation mindset really do scrape the bottom of the barrel.

    How many other ways are these armchair shrinks going to foster/encourage/promote codependency?

    Sigh. It actually makes me feel physically ill.

    Plus… the couple in the anecdote were weepers. They both sat there weeping in whoever the author is’ office. PLEASE!!! Stop the waterworks. I beg you!! I mean, okay, I get that the wife is crying. She’s the one who has been betrayed. But OH MY FUCKING GOD please stop the cheaters/bad guys from weeping. That is just the height of bad taste. And if it was my man, and he was weeping, I’d divorce him just for doing that weak-ass shit. Frickin’ weeping willows. GET out of my face with your over-emotional selves. Man up, for Christ’s sake.

    And honestly? After one or two good cries, I think the BSs should just quit with the histrionics and focus on getting themselves straight and straight out of that fucking relationship. Any relationship that makes a person cry, like regularly, well, that’s not a good relationship. Love is not drama or hysterics or weepings. Love is not really all that hard. When you love someone you and you are loved by that person, there should not be a lot of weeping associated with it. Unless it is for joy.

    Sorry. I’m dealing with a stupid situation today and I wish I had the time to cry. I don’t. Instead, I actually have to get through it and get it done. So I guess I’m just, well, bitter. Ha hahaha.

    • Now look , Kristina, this woman is a “relationship expert” with a real PhD. So cut the crap and defer to her.
      But, I do agree, WTF is up with Jim bawling? Guy was just out getting laid like crazy and now he is crying? What, didn’t he like getting laid?
      When someone’s chemistry has been sexualized, and, there has been “connection” with emotional needs met, the “New Monogamy” is a way for soulmates to rekindle their essence and transcend the weariness and weight of existence, to discover the inner child that lays beneath the veneer of life’s purposelessness and to complete themselves.
      You get yourself a PhD and take the Realtionship expert exam, and , maybe, you will grok the essence here.

      • Did you check out her PhD credentials? They appear to be from a diploma factory in Orlando.

        • You took the words out of my mouth, CL. I was expecting Phoenix Uni but yeah, the one she attended works as well.

          And Arnold, you’re on fire, babe. You should write some convoluted bs claptrap for HuffPo that will get the punters screaming. I bow down.

      • CL,
        I’d spring for a poster with Arnold’s word salad feast over an image of an elephant producing a similarly nutritious by-product.

        You might want to think about a card line.

  • Someone please tell Dr. Tammy Nelson that i said to go Fuck her/its self!!! Fuck,Fuck,Fuck . Grrrr…. . how fucking fucked up! sorry people but this kind of fucking shit fucking pisses me off…. i had some fucking fucked up therapy for depression but this kind of shit takes the cake. FUCK! … i gotta go smoke a cigarette..

  • “Dr. Tammy” must know what she’s talking about. She’s a “DOCTOR,” after all.

    Though, if you check out her website, you’ll see that she bases that on her “PhD in Sexology from the American Academy of Clinical Sexologists.” ( Yes, that would be the “Academy” based next to DisneyWorld in ORLANDO. It’s not Yale Medical School, but it’s prolly very similar. Think: Donald Duck in a lab coat, holding a dildo.


    You don’t need medical credentials to be able to talk sensibly about cheating, lying, and domestic abuse. But this lady dresses up patently bad advice as “medical information” to make it seem more plausible. HuffPo should be ashamed of itself for allowing this woman hold herself out as a medical professional. I practice civil law, not criminal, but if I were HuffPo’s lawyer I would tell them they are exposing themselves to liability for several types of potential fraud claims.

      • Like the bumper sticker says, “When you use a feather, it’s kinky; When you use the whole duck, it’s perverted.”

    • This woman has a crazed look in her eyes. She authored “Getting the Sex You want” and “What’s Eating You”.
      Looks like she could also write “Eating All the Food You Want” or “Eating the Food You Get”.
      (I am a bit of a blimpy pie these days, so I can say this)

  • I just found you through HP and I love you! So many therapist’s on there are total mind fuckers. My father was a cheater and let me tell you the children suffer how I wish my mom would have had a friend like you. Your awesome Chumplady.

    • Welcome Cheka! Check out a couple posts back — a child of a cheater wrote in. I’m sorry you were hurt by your dad’s cheating. It had to have sucked.

  • So I’m confused. What’s the point of marriage in this “new monogamy” thing? A chance to recapture prom by wearing a nice dress and dressing up other girls? Excuse to have your best friend pay for a good meal calling it a stag party? An excuse to eat cake and get presents?

    If you don’t want to be faithful to someone, don’t promise to be.

  • Holy crap. Tammy teaches therapist on sexual communication with couples, according to her webiste. She also offers holistic healing and massage(happy endings?).
    I hail , originally , from Ct, where she is based. Think I’ll pack up the kids in the RV this summer and head home for some “communication”.
    Maybe some of her “employees” are better looking than the good doc(hopefully).

    • I’m originally from CT as well! Shall we meet up and ‘learn’ where we went wrong with our cheaters and thus not ‘force’ future partners to cheat? Maybe we can get some sort of twoferone deal.

  • Mr. Wanton here,
    I occasionaly have Mrs. Wanton read your writing it’s harsh but the humor helps some. I don’t think we are a unicorn, and her affairs did trample on what went before. I could kick her to the curb, and start afresh – but when she’s a whole person I want her in my life. As long as she committed to making ammends, and putting in the work I want to make the attempt.

    Granted I don’t have to overcome a long term affair (3 months of sexting and 1 sad physical encounter), which followed on heels of way too many crisises and a mental breakdown – I’m doing my best to forgive and see if we can build/rebuild something.

    There are of course conditions:
    1) There are no third chances – that would pretty much make her unloveable!
    2) We are observing some hard and fast boundaries with regards to chat, texting, and friends that don’t leave any wiggle room,
    3) She will remain in therapy with a pretty solid counselor until she’s fully on team sane
    4) Anything that even smells like repeat infidelity, revisionism, minimalizing, and I’m on the first flight out of town.

    With that said I’m enjoying spending time with her, sometimes basically good people do crappy stuff. It sucks but it’s worth it to me, to try to forgive and repair our relationship. If that makes me chumpish I’ll own it 🙂

    • Hey, good luck to you. Mr. Wanton, it doesn’t sound like you’ve had years of crises and mental breakdowns and sexting, but your wife has. So, not exactly a marriage of equals. I hope it works out for you, but the “no wiggle room” life of marriage policing is no fun. If it’s worth it to you, I’ll take your word for it. I very much hope your investment in your marriage results in the relationship you deserve. No shame in being a chump, we’ve all been there.

    • Fellow unicorn chiming in. I totally reject the “opportunity” crap and the blame shifting…H tried all that crap to justify his 6 months of texting and whatever sad physical encounter he had that was likely ruined by a whopping case of Catholic guilt.

      It wasn’t “opportunity” or my muffin top or lack of sex at home or frumpy Christmas sweaters that caused him to cheat, it was his refusal to grow up and act like a f-ing adult that lit this fuse. He didnt cope, he blamed…for EVERYTHING and at some point he had blamed me for so much he had made me the enemy – an easy person to betray. He was selfish and lazy and had to do an extraordinary amount of growing up in order to be a worthy partner which (for the most part) he did.

      “New Monogamy” is a stupid phrase and I have no need for sex therapy psychobabble…our ability to survive & recommit came from our shared faith and grace of God.

      I realized in the whole experience that my ability to read him was quite good and his ability to lie was quite bad (as is mine). I stayed sane in part because I had (like Mr Wanton) set up some pretty clear boundaries and (eschewing sainthood myself) was ready to throw his ass out if he violated my boundaries. (for anyone who missed my other posts, he died suddenly in a state of relative marital grace).

    • Mr wanton:

      May I add one bit of advice.

      GET A POSTNUPTUAL………like pronto.

      If she refuses to sign it, you know she’s can’t be trusted.

      • Good advise…I know a betrayed spouse whose H was desperate to reconcile and her post nup said that if he cheated again, she got virtually EVERYTHING. They are still together last I heard but that was her condition. I took a HUGE gamble not divorcing my H when he was in the “I want out so bad I would gnaw off my leg to get away/ I feel guilty so I will give the stbxw everything” stage.

    • How can one be an “unwhole” person? Is she an amputee or something?(I am an amputee, so I can go there).

  • Huff Po took exception to my thoughts on the article, so thought I’d toss them here:

    This article is a joke.

    One person cannot force another person to cheat. Anymore than one person can force another person to have integrity and character.

    For a mental health professional To say, “oh gee what the heck did you do to force poor Jimmie to go out and find a new girlfriend on the side?” is reprehensible.

    Why do people refer to affairs as accidents? No one ever says, “I fell and I landed in a vagina.” Get real.

    Affairs are a deliberate choice; the cheater rationalizes and demonizes the faithful partner to justify their behavior. If you don’t want to be married any more, there is a very simple solution: its called divorce. But don’t tell your spouse at home raising your child how much you love them while

    a) lying to them
    b) deceiving them
    c) financially stealing from your own family
    d) potentially exposing the spouse who loves you to dangerous and potentially incurable STDs

    Affairs take planning and cold calculation. No one cheats because of what their spouse is “not doing for them”. They cheat because they want a spouse at home and a piece of a$$ on the side. Plain and simple.

    It is a lack of character, a lack of integrity, a lack of self-respect and a lack of authenticity.

    if you are so miserable in your marriage, grow a pair, man up (regardless of gender) and file for divorce.

    Its not complicated. Its plain and simple.

    • Like!

      I like all you guys!

      If you want to stay with a cheater, then stay. But quit effing whiiiiiiiining about it!

      Otherwise leave. If those fuckers wanna blame us, let ’em. Won’t really serve them well, anyway. I don’t give a crap what they think. I know the truth. They know the truth. And they are pathetic liars.

    • Blue eyes, they also cheat because marriage sometimes takes work, particularly when you’ve been banging the same person for a decade or two: it’s just not going to be as exciting as the first couple of years without some effort and imagination. Banging a new person after the same partner for years is, I assume, pretty bloody exciting and seems like ‘wow, what a connection! Haven’t had an orgasm like that since…well…the first few years of my marriage!’

      And then the new person becomes teh old person and next thing you know they’re looking for that ‘connection’ once again.

      • A decade or two? That is stamina. As the Viagra adds say, call your doctor if you have an erection lasting more than 4 hours( Yes, the old joke,’ I am calling all my friends , first).

    • While I agree that no one can force another person to cheat, and that the onus for cheating lies on the cheater, I think that some marriages have such toxic components to them that cheating becomes easier.

      For example, one of my STBXH’s former co-workers was a misogynist bastard whose extremely conservative religious views led him to believe that his decisions were Right because he had a penis. The former co-worker’s views on women were validated when he discovered his wife was cheating on him with a vice president in her firm. She was a high-powered accountant. He was a VP. They often had to work late.

      I understand that her husband was a controlling, emotionally abusive jackass. However, that’s not an excuse for cheating. The VP was married, with children. She, too, was married and had children. It was shit sandwiches for pretty much everyone except the cake-eating cheaters. If her marriage were that bad, she could have divorced her sorry-assed husband and had custody of their daughter. Under no circumstances does an affair with a married person become acceptable, though, so she should have said no to Mr. Cake-Eating VP (and reported him for sexual harassment).

      However, the HufPo article isn’t about toxic relationships, about the affairs that are geared to be exit affairs (and those are not okay, either). It’s about blame-shifting to the Betrayed Spouse. If the BS had been more attentive, more attractive, more–well, whatever it was that the cheater’s fantasy demanded–then the cheater wouldn’t have been forced into an affair. I call bullshit.

      • Any marriage that contains a cheater with blame shifting is a toxic marriage.

        There is no excuse for cheating.

        Either a spouse is inherently honest, in which case they say “I want a divorce this isn’t working”, or a spouse is inherently dishonest, “Baby I love you so much, if you would just x,y,z our life would be perfect”.

        There’s no such thing as a selfish, self-absorbed cheater (and every cheater is selfish, otherwise they aren’t conducting an affair) blame shifting that is NOT a toxic marriage.

        My exception with the article is that it starts with a false assumption. Namely, that the other spouse drove you to it. Whatever argument someone puts forward as the justification is just that: a justification, aka an excuse.

        No one is perfect. And both parties probably did make mistakes in the marriage.

        But there is no excuse for deciding you (or your circumstances) are so special that you are the exception, that you are entitled to break your vows prior to being honest with your spouse.

        Your spouse is also entitled to a spouse who is honest with them.

        No one is so special they are entitled to a spouse at home and a piece of ass on the side.

        • Absolutely I agree. No matter how toxic the marriage, cheating should be off the table. Instead, get a divorce. It’s why divorces exist. Many marriages end in divorce without anyone having cheated, so clearly whatever relationship issues are there, the parties involved don’t feel entitled to cheat.

          And that’s why cheaters are different. They think they are.

      • I love this site, although I’m mostly a lurker. And I agree generally with the opinions expressed…I was a BS, 25 year marriage with 3 kids (including a 6 year old) that ended when she cheated with the married leader of her church. Yah, it was a weird year, and I walked.

        But, as with all rules, I think I agree with kb that there are some exceptions. I have a friend whose husband was emotionally abusive, and for the last 2 years of their marriage simply refused to have sex with her. While we can all look at that situation and say “She should have just left”, there was a child involved, and she was the sort of person who thought she could “fix” things, maintain a household for the child but get her physical needs met elsewhere. So she did, for almost a year, at the end of which she realized she just couldn’t live that way anymore. She left him, bit the bullet and got divorced, so that she could have the kind of relationship she knew she wanted. And after a few years, she found what she was looking for her entire life.

        No blaming the victim there, just an honest accounting of the situation some folks find themselves in. She’s a good person who made a difficult choice, realized after a while it was the wrong one, and finally made the right call. Sometimes it’s not as easy as we tend to make it sound…

        • Art, I could’ve been your friend. That very much sounds like me during my first marriage and I had all those thoughts — I’ll hold things together, maybe I could get my needs met elsewhere. I even got propositioned by a friend. I definitely was on that slippery slope, but I didn’t cross the line. Luckily, I did wake up and realize if I was thinking those things, I needed to be out. What I really wanted was a total relationship with someone who was all in. There’s a discussion about this at the post “What if the BS Truly Sucks?” I have a ton of sympathy for anyone in an emotionally abusive relationship where someone is sexually withholding. But in the end, cheating just isn’t the way out. It degrades you and makes a difficult situation that much more difficult. Your friend wasted another year of her life having the affair and sticking out the bad marriage. In the end, she did the inevitable, she left. And what of her affair partner? I hope he wasn’t married. Sorting out her own situation, she may have been party to breaking up someone else’s marriage.

          I don’t think everyone who cheats is a personality disorder. I hope that your friend learned from that experience and is in a better place now, and that karma never bites her on the ass.

          • Sounds like you guys took different paths, but may have ended up in the same place. She was really stuck, couldn’t convince herself to leave, so she actually feels like doing what she did finally put her in the position of being able to make the difficult choice of leaving. She used the cheaters web site to find partners who weren’t looking for a relationship, because at the time she wasn’t. 10 months of that was enough to show her that she was cheating herself of what she really wanted, and that was that.

            It was interesting, though, because I was the BS in my 25 year marriage, and came out of it firmly convinced cheating was the worst thing someone could do, and a betrayal, and all of the other feelings we have when we get cheated on. Her story made me realize that not everyone was in the type of relationship I was, that not everyone makes the same choices we do. I’d like to believe I would never cheat: I’m about as monogamous as it gets. And I’d like to believe that if I were in a relationship that was sexless for a long period of time I’d be the stand-up guy and walk away rather than cheat. In fact before talking to her and hearing her story I would have insisted I was. But her story made me realize that it may not have been as easy to do as I like to think, with kids involved.

            And karma? Karma is bullshit. It’s the same fantasy that makes people believe in heaven and hell. Just because we WANT justice to ultimately be delivered doesn’t make it so. There are plenty of bad people who have done bad things who sleep just fine at night, and who lead lives with the same amount of personal happiness as good people. More, sometimes. I gave up on karma years ago.

  • My ex wife’s affair had more planning in it than the US ARMY! When they travelled to New York so she could run in the marathon she was supposed to travel with 8 other runners (2 of which were cancer survivors and you would think they deserve some respect for allowing ex to be part of the team) but instead chainsaw man upgraded her to business class using his company air points and they travelled on a separate plane then staying in the same hotel entering and exiting separately so to be undetected. More planning there than a raid in Afghanistan! Who would be so stupid to travel with eight others and do that stupid shit. Cheaters just have different values and destroy sooooo many relationships. ( PLEASE EXPLAIN!
    These phd and so called experts who say affairs are an accident or ” there must have been something wrong at home’ are fuckin delusional. Don’t be surprised if they had affairs in their own lives.
    For fucks sake don’t send them to Australia. Send them somewhere else.

  • Wow, someone over at Huffpo (RLL88) said, “Anyone who could even become sexually aroused while doing something PROFOUNDLY devastating to their partner is someone of extraordinarily disgusting character, and if you have any self-respect, you’ll boot them out the door and find someone much, much better. Period.”


    • Yes, I like that as well. It astounds me when I think about how STBX behaved: banging various people on the side while continuing to build a life with me, apparently happily. How could he be banging people I knew, people I’d had in my home, and still look me and the kids in teh eye? Hell, how cold those people he was banging still sit in my presence? it astounds me to this day that this shit could go on for so long and he just acted like he was normal, everything was normal. There’s something sick going on there.

      • Thank GOD you have the sense to get away.

        And the further away you get, the more you will see just how crazy and not-right it all was.

        A now-good friend told me right after my bomb drop that I needed to get far away from my ex, to “reset your bullshit meter.” How profound. Thanks to time and distance and being around normal people, and in no small part thanks to this site, and even Hero’s Spouse, where I view the same BS over and over in many others’ stories so much that I see the pattern, I am becoming quite fluent in Bull Shit, and I can recognize it for what it is, and I don’t immediately get out my trowel and spackle, I just squint and go, “WTF?”

        Time heals, when you let it.

        When you finally have the courage to throw the monkey off your back and step away and breathe and heal–wow, it is amazing how great it feels.

        • Hero’s Spouse irritates the fuck out of me. Just the name bugs me: Hero’s Spouse? Really? Your cheater is a hero and you’re going to ‘stand’ while s/he goes and bangs anyone they want and just hope and pray s/he realises how special you are and comes running home (when the sidepieces dry up, most likely).

          I went there shortly after dday, when I was still desperately spackling and trying to ‘figure things out’. Even in my deranged state of mind I couldn’t handle the bullshit: some of those people have been ‘standing’ for years. Give me a break.

          • Oh my God!! I have not heard of that particular haven of codependency, but it sounds LOVELY. *eyes*

            Their philosophy is to stand by their hero/cheater spouses? For God’s sake. Why don’t they call it: Martyrs R Us? Honestly.

            No doubt it has to do faith in God and all the rest. I have my faith as much as anyone, but I just don’t understand how a well-developed eschatology makes up for a happiness in the here and now, I mean, happiness where you don’t have to set conditions on a relationship, like: “I need to be able look through your phone at any time day or night on command in order to feel safe in this relationship…” or: “You can’t get up from your desk at work and do something without calling to check in with me first…” or: “If you ever cheat on me again, that’s the deal breaker..” (which, lets face it, no it isn’t. Not really, and the cheater knows it. If you forgave him or her once you’ll forgive him or her again. As much as you have his or her number, so too does she or he have your number and it is: 1-800-IAM-ACHUMP).)

            Praise the lord and all that, but sheesh. Praise him with a decent and loving life partner, not someone who betrayed you. And surely God wouldn’t want us to degrade ourselves and stand by while someone was actively cheating on us. If that’s the kind of God we’ve got, I’m not interested in His message.

      • I don’t know how they can lie so well. They lie and look us straight in the eye. Lie to the kids( which is easier because they often don’t look them in the eye).
        I have walked away from mil and fil sisters n law ( bar one) but the kids have a heathy relationship with them. It’s the only sane way to protect yourself and rebuild a new life. I don’t want to talk with them and pretend to be all lovey dovey she’ll be right mate crap. I want honest conversations and live in a real world – not a fantasy fuckathon.
        I don’t know how you guys cope with the screwing friends and people in my house. Double betrayals must be double the work. Some of you guys must be so strong. Of course you should never have been put in this predicament.

        • How do I deal? I cut them out of my life, I tell people what they did and let the chips fall. At first I was soooo quiet about everything because I was humiliated and embarrassed. Then it struck me (via a massive 2×4 a friend slammed on my head) that this was not my shame, this was not my humiliation, this was all theirs-every single woman who fucked him (and particularly the ones who knew me) and, most importantly, his. So I started telling the truth and wow, did the guilty parties not like that! Oh no! People know I fucked my friend’s husband! People know I’m a slag! And STBX? How dare you ruin my reputation! That’s when I started to come out of my own little ‘fog’, as it were. It’s took time but every time I told someone and saw the shock on their face I realised a little bit more just exactly how utterly fucked up the whole thing was and that it was STBX, not me, with the massive issues.

          Just yesterday I had lunch with an old colleague and while she knew it was more than one affair she didn’t know it was friends and others that I knew. I told her, in a very surface way, and the look on her face told me all I needed to know:

          • I told everyone as well once I knew it was over. I went through months of cake eating. It was only I got full access to her email and text and copied it that I knew exactly what was going on. Seeing their daily and nightly exchanges nearly drove me insane. I still have them but can’t and don’t read them. Then I exposed to everyone. That drove them nuts. The placement of the truth on chainsaw mans company Facebook page was the final straw. That sent him mad as hell.
            Everyone and I mean everyone keeps telling me they won’t last as a couple but I doubt it. They only have each other in their pitiful existence.
            They have a sad future whereas ours has potential because we are starting out with learned lessons and a better respect for relationships.

          • Baci, the perversely curious part of my personality wonders exactly what it was that you posted on his FB. During the worst of times immediately after discovery of his A, I hatched many fantasies of how I would tell the world about their nastiness. H retreated from his foolishness in the nick of time to avoid the scorched earth disaster I was readying to implement.

          • I posted on the companies FB page. He is like a snake. Even though he is a CEO there are no images. ( but I have obtain some- he’s as ugly as fuck but its the prestige and no baggage( his children reside in New Zealand. Anyway I just put on chainsaw mans coy FB page that he was having and affair with my wife( named both of them ) and I was concerned for my children. They left it up for four hours during the day so many customers etc must have seen it. It was just telling the truth but its in the evidence with police now.
            If I die tomorrow I wouldn’t want my sons to be involved in a family that everyone thought began as a legitimate relationship

    • You know, I have thougth about this, as well. How does a normal guy get it up while doing something so hateful? How can a woman with a conscience, actually , lubrictate in these situations?
      I know the guilt etc would override things for me and I would not be able to do it.
      But, I know a woman, a serial cheater, who was so aroused that she and her partner entered the wrong dwelling, a neighbors residence, while they were groping/arousing each other.
      Are some folks sex drives just that hgih that it overides everything and things work? I don’t need candles and violins, etc. but the weight of what i was doing would , surely, make it impossible to perform.

      • Mate, I don’t think these cheaters have conscious. They simply switch off all thought of spouse and children.
        Also some affairs aren’t about the sex. It’s the fantasy of a new life. In my case ex has traded up to very senior executive of international company. It removes her from the day to day kids stuff ,going to footy practice, and the mundane family life. On the other side ( in her eyes) is a life in a $1,000,000 + apartment or new luxury home, 5 star hotels
        And just relaxing with new fuck buddy talking about work and their careers.
        She loses the family thing.
        I have copies of emails” I live for you my darling. You are my world, my true love, my future. Can’t wait to be in your arms forever”. It’s all teenage shit you and I went through in our twenties.
        There is no way I could “perform”. I dated a few women in the last few months and it felt uncomfortable just having dinner!
        You and I know loyalty, commitment , trust, love, respect.
        My replacement is 58 ( I’m 49) and the ex is 45. The ex hasnt done it for the sex. he has though. These husbands that go after the other woman who is significantly younger are in big big danger. There’s no substance to the relationship, only sex and then the train wreck begins…………..

        • Just remind yourself:

          They deserve each other. They really, really do.

          When they start realizing they deserve each other, we can sit back with soda and popcorn and enjoy the fallout, because we are not hypocrites in that way.

  • Baci, couldn’t reply direct so typing here.

    I think STBX and current OW will stay together for a bit, because, as you said, they’re stuck with each other as a result of exposure. It HAS to be true love and soooo worth it to have broken up the family. Then again, they HATE that I’m open about him being a serial cheater, because it amps down the ‘specialness’. When people hear about the serial cheating most say ‘well, how long before he cheats on her, then?’

    To be honest, I don’t care what happens with them, other than they treat the kids well. The rest of it? It’s their problem, not mine…although I can’t say I won’t laugh when he does cheat on her.

  • Same here. They will stay together because we actually enable it. You and I are there for our kids and they access them for convenience to stay in touch. We are like a day care centre. They just want the warm fussy experience of CAKE. The majority of the time they want the freedom to fuck, travel, relax in their new lifestyle. The kids log all this and it doesn’t matter to much but believe me later on the boys will realise who was there for them. It’s still about quantity time and not quality. My boys still choose to spend more time with me but they love their mum all the same. How old are your kids Nord?

    • Mine are 11 and 14 and yes, they’re with me most of the time. I finally made them go this weekend to STBX, despite them not wanting to go, because he hasn’t seen them much since Christmas. He helped sweeten the pot with a trip to the cinema and some pizza. So they’ll be home first thing Sunday morning, no doubt, and then he’ll see them once during the week and tehn not again for 10-14 days. It’s amazing to me that he can do this. And it’s even more amazing to me that young OW, who will undoubtably want kids of her own at some point, does not see how little he is with his kids – and that when he is it’s fun times, not the day to day stuff. I get she’s young and has no clue about kids but doesn’t she have any idea of how a normal family life is run? It’s not all fun activities and pizza night, but that’s the time he spends with the kids and that’s it.

      • How funny. Pizza night. Chainsaw man in a text that my oldest so read 18 months ago said” can’t wait to eat pizza with you( my ex) and the boys. Well it’s now more than 18 months down the track and they haven’t even had a vegemite sandwich (you know what I’m talking about because you lived here).
        My ex has spent similar amount of time as yours with boys 13 and 16. In fact my 16 year old has only spent one night since Christmas morning. She has however been with OM continually so they are enjoying the summer together. Lonely though no kids around. Maybe that’s how they like it selfish pricks!

        • Oh, STBX texts the kids about how much he misses them. He’s big on texting but rarely calls. The only time he calls is if he feels like he’s losing control of them-then he bombs them with attention. As soon as he’s back in their good books the attention tapers off.

          I don’t know why this surprises me. The man is so self-centred that it boggles the mind. OW and STBX feed the kids pizza, pancakes, and the like. Very healthy. But fun! Woohoooo!

          And yeah, vegemite. *shudders*

          • Ex lives 6 minutes drive away and you would think that she would be around all the time. Part of it is she now had to make this new relationship work because I’m no longer an option. Suits chainsaw man because he just wants her.
            Nord just keep doing the family stuff with kids. They know what’s going on. The stbx and his young fuck buddy will live a shallow life. Everyone tells me these things won’t last but I don’t think so. They are desperate to make it work at any cost. You watch the train smash unravel

      • Yes, STBX has to make this new relationship work since he was so publicly exposed as a cheater. And he’s trying like hell, which naturally irritates me as I don’t want to see this bit of fluff at weddings and graduations for the rest of my life.

        I’m doing the family stuff, I’m here all the time, I’m doing all the stuff we should have been doing as a family and it’s all good.

        But as a friend of mine said when her ex finally dumped the OW: nothing felt better than having that bitch out of her life permanently. She didn’t give a crap about any woman who came after that – just felt sorry for them – but the thought of that woman being around her kids drove her nuts.

        This stuff sucks sometimes.

        • Feel exactly the same. It’s taken me a long time to remove ex off the high pedestal I had her on. This chainsaw man knew she had two beautiful boys but can only think she said that we had horrible marriage etc.
          he still hangs around though. I have said many times that if he fucks off ill accept anyone new but not him. He systematically sets out to destroy families. He has no consequences- just more time with ex and whatever their fantasy leads them. He has got what he wants
          For now my boys don’t want anything to do with him and refuse to meet him. Ex is highly pissed off. I think she may have made the wrong choices and underestimated my ability to uncover the affair and expose it

          • Ah yes, how do they get us to place their sorry bums on such a high pedestal? I think I did the same with STBX and it’s taken quite some time for me to see him for who he really is. Now I see it and yuck, he’s so gross. I can’t believe I didn’t see it before this.

            And the OW? She’s a very young, very insecure girl who now has him on a pedestal and thinks she’s got herself a real prize. Poor thing, I see it playing out with her just as it played out with me all those years ago: he does the same things to lure her in that he did with me. It’s kind of sad and I sometimes want to point out the bleeding obvious to her but then, no, let her learn her lesson the hard way. It’s the least she can do for interfering with my family.

  • >
    %d bloggers like this: