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The Futility of Confronting Affair Partners

Here’s a common chump mistake — confronting the affair partner(s). Maybe you did this. Maybe you agonized about doing this. Maybe you’re still waiting to come up with the perfect withering remark to deliver along with your poisoned umbrella tip. Let me spare you the trouble — don’t go there.

But! But! 

I know you want to tell them off, but it’s futile for a variety of reasons.

1. They have no shame. Unless this person is completely unaware that your spouse is married or otherwise spoken for (it happens, in which case I think the person is a fellow chump, not an AP), they knew what they were doing and have devised various rationales — all of which are impervious to your exhortations. The most common rationale is that you are sexless and bat shit crazy. You come at them all “stay away from my husband you insipid cum dumpster!” — you’re going to validate their assumptions. You’re nuts.

Worse, if you come at them all classy — appealing to their sense of shared humanity and common decency — they will delight in their superiority. You poor pathetic chump, begging for your marriage. Can’t you see you’re dealing with an uber being? One more charismatic and sexier than you? How could one as dim and sexless as you understand someone as compelling as them? You cannot. This is bigger than us both. Their love cannot be denied. You are too feeble minded to comprehend this. Don’t make me explain it to you.

Which brings us to the other reason you should not confront the affair partner…

2. They might actually be bat shit crazy. Yeah, there’s some irony in that, huh? Look, to exist in an affair for any length of time, you have to be a few sandwiches shy of picnic. Either, you’ve got really low self-esteem to be a side dish, or you’re flamingly narcissistic. In the first case, desperate people can do desperate things. And in the other case, narcissistic people don’t think the rules apply to them — and that doesn’t stop at poaching your spouse. It might also extend to the rules of law.

Being in an affair has been likened to addiction — you’re trying to sober them up. Have you watched those recovery programs? People get ugly. Very ugly. Haven’t you suffered enough? Do you really need this person harassing you and losing their shit? No. You do not need that.

But the biggest reason not to confront the affair partner?

3. It’s kibbles to your cheater. Confronting the affair partner is the essence of the pick me dance. “Stay away from my wife!” makes your wife really central. She’s getting a high off two men fighting for her. How fabulous. Maybe there’ll be a duel!

If cheater’s can’t have secret cake, they will settle for a public pick me dance. It’s all good. It’s all kibbles. Don’t participate in this shit!

You might delude yourself into thinking you need to talk with the affair partner for reconnaissance purposes. To compare notes. Maybe that person will tell you things your partner will not.

They might. And it might be a pack of lies! Consider the source. There might also be some truth in it — but how fucked up is that? Would you really consider staying with a person who won’t tell you the truth — you have to get the details from their fuckbuddy? Really?

If you’ve been tempted to confront the affair partner — leave it to professionals. Have your lawyer write them a no contact letter. Ask your lawyer to depose them in your divorce (that gets settlement talks moving quite quickly I hear). If you need more information about the affair(s), hire a PI or become  a computer snoop. Hand over the evidence to your lawyer. Don’t go all vigilante on this alone. Get professional support.

The point is to GET AWAY from them both and stop giving your cheater and the affair partner your precious mental energy. You know what says “you are beneath contempt”? Filing for divorce. Letting the cheater have the AP. Walking away from this shit lets you maintain your dignity and self respect.

And speaking of self respect… just to illustrate my point further, several intrepid chumps have sent me links to interviews with Sydney Leathers (Anthony Weiner’s special sext friend) and other articles written by unrepentant OW. Here’s an especially repulsive one — A Letter to the Wife of My Boyfriend. To give you an idea of exactly how delusional it is, enjoy this passage:

He knew how much it hurt me every time he kissed me goodbye to come home to you. Cheating on you, he could live with. Hurting me, he couldn’t bear.

This is the kind of rancid oatmeal that passes for OW self reflection. I’m sorry I’m so much better than you and everyone knows it, even your husband, he only dumped me because of his powerful love for me.

I have to say AP like this and Leathers amaze me. It’s one thing to secretly hook up with someone — which is repulsive and sadly pathetic. It’s quite another thing to get in a chump’s face so publicly. To make your sociopathic arguments so unrepentantly. It seems designed to hurt the chump even further. Leathers — it’s not enough to fuck Huma’s husband — you need a celebrity junket to say she wasn’t meeting his needs? REALLY?

But their rationales I think are pretty common. It’s a nice look inside their heads — caverns of self absorption. Why would you appeal to such a person’s better self? They think they’re just splendid.

So confronting an AP? No. It’s an exercise in futility. Pointing and laughing? That’s totally permitted. Go right ahead.

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  • Totally totally with you on this one, CL! Through my ex’s 2 affairs, 6 years apart, I had ZERO interest in the OW, in knowing about them, in speaking to them, or in asking the ex about the affair. The ONLY thing that was important to me was my relationship w/my ex, what the affairs meant about that (first time around I bought into the ‘unmet needs’ IRC unicorn-chasing bullshit), and about his choices and his character.

    The only times I was tempted was after the first affair ended; I felt like sending her a card letting her know she probably got the better end of that bargain. And then when the ex spoke of the 2nd OW (who he is still with) so contempteously after I made it clear I wouldn’t take him back; I’m betting she didn’t know he was married, initially, I felt like she needed warning about his character. But ya know what? Not my problem! If you’re 49 years old and you don’t smell a rat when a guy is in your city for work and going home every weekend ‘to his kids’, then you deserve what you get. And the possibility she’s as big a narc as he is, and knew and didn’t care, is enough to discourage that. I’m betting she’s another chump, though – he does have good taste in women!

    Sometimes I do feel, though, that we need some kind of invisible tattoo system, to put on ex-partners’ foreheads,. You know, ‘wife beater’, ‘serial cheater’, ‘mean person’, ‘totally irresponsible’. Then we give the ‘reveal light’ to chumps, and they can check while the person is sleeping! How to make the system un-beatable and un-fakeable? I’m working on that!

    Because the cheating is about THEM, not their APs. Trust that they suck!

  • The “A letter to the wife of my boyfriend” should come with a barf bag warning…..

    My coffee almost came back up.

    • Me too. The other half of the time I was sing-songing : “del-oooooooooo-sional!!!!!

  • Its crazy stuff. Why should an outsider matter? If my spouse didn’t respect my trust, why should I expect anything from AP. period.

  • Can someone who did this pipe up and tell me to STAY AWAY?

    I am indignant that whilst my entire life is ‘rearranged’, schmoopie co-worker waltzes off completely unscathed. Where is her humiliation? Where is her family hurt?

    for 4 years I have wrestled with this, and for 4 years the injustice of this just rankles.

    • I emailed one of my ex-wife’s affair partners and politely asked him to end all contact with my wife so we could try to save our marriage (Option 1b above, the “Classy Confrontation”). He responded by sending her a secret email marriage proposal later that same day. I believe my then-wife was ecstatic with the tug of war. They then took the affair underground for a couple of weeks during false reconciliation, until I found out and filed for divorce.

      You want Schmoopie Co-worker to feel some hurt? Let her have the cheating loser. Speaking from experience here: Best. Revenge. EVER.

      • I left a voicemail for my husbands OW after the first time he said he would not contact her because he said her calls to him made him feel so bad and he only emailed her because she was so sad. Yes I chumpily believed this bullshit, I loved him still at that time. My voicemail said something along the lines of: “He tells me you are a good person, I’m sure you are.” and “please stop contacting him so he can decide what he wants to do we’ve been together so many years. If he chooses you, I will live with that. If that happens please take good care of him, otherwise I will make your life miserable at school”. I was not angry, in fact I was crying during the entire call…and with exception of that last bit was mostly begging her to back off, saying I love my husband, please give us a chance, etc, etc. (for context of last bit, OW was an elementary school teacher)

        The next week at MC my husband says to therapist that I called and screamed at the OW, that I threatened to kill the OW!!!! I said that was not true, what the hell, and asked if he listened to the voicemail? His response told me everything I needed to know about the OW: “No I didn’t hear it, you scared poor OW so much she said she didn’t know what to do, so she deleted the voicemail and she was afraid to leave her house.

        Seriously, don’t contact the AP unless you know they are being chumped. Otherwise they are just as twisted as the cheater.

      • He doesn’t want her full time. He just wants her admiring eyes and the feelgood she gives him.

        • Well, now my ex has that and while he bleats on and on (and on and on) about how much happier he is I saw the other day in court that he is one enraged, sicko dude. For someone so bloody happy he really is carrying around a big old ball of rage. He seems very pissed off that he lost his family and now we have needs that he needs to meet but will not benefit from.

          He’s a git.

          • Nord, I swear we were married to the same guy. Just had a very similar encounter with my ex-rage-ball. While he was on a luxury vacation with his new sweet girl – one her birthday. Took time out to rage at me… Hmmmm….

            • It’s bizarre. But I no longer try to figure anything out. He can go be happy, unhappy, blissful, miserable…it’s all the same to me as long as he stays out of my hair.

              • Nord,
                If you haven’t already… Please do this, to all the APs. he so needs to see it documented (or maybe that is me). Sorry if I’m projecting:

                ” get your lawyer to depose them in your divorce (that gets settlement talks moving quite quickly I hear). ”

                It is my wish that this would compel him to setltle more favorably. Good luck.

      • my was told me that one of his “friends” (someone working for the same company but in another state 1000 miles away and where he just was on business) was “deeply offended” at my writing to tell her to fuck off. She was sending him messages, some of them encrypted, showing her fucked up foot?

        what kind of business is that? He’s not a podiatrist!

      • Tell me Nomar…did one of them cheat? Because as much as I don’t want him I sure as hell don’t want final OW in my life until the end of my days.

        • Well, I believe both of them cheated on each other during the period between my filing for divorce and the two of them getting married (I guess they’re only soulmates when they’re in the same area code). Since then–who knows? But to address your concern: Yes, they are both in my life today, nearly 5 years post-D-Day, since they share custody (primary custody for the last couple of years, as a matter of fact). However, that ends next week as my youngest son from that marriage will be going off to college then and the co-parenting ends. As CL often says, this sh*t is finite.

          • Ugh…having to deal with the AP for years is the one thing I shudder over. Ex was cheating on me with current OW but also had several other side pieces on the go at the same time. So technically he’s already cheated on her. I just can’t decide which one I want to cheat. I’d love for him to feel the pain but then again I don’t think he’d feel much besides rage (seems to be his only real emotion). I’d like her to feel the horror of betrayal but then again, she’s have invested less than 2 years of her life in her 20s, not 20 years and two kids.

            Bah…who gives a shit…let them stay together and wonder about the other cheating. 🙂

  • Yeah, confronting the affair partner about her/his cheating. An idea right up there with confronting cats about killing birds, confronting sewers about smelling horrible, or confronting gravity about making things fall to the ground. Which is to say, it’s a waste of time to confront anything about its true nature.

    Chumps would be so much better off if we would only divert the time, energy and money we invest into these futile efforts to change the unchangeable into chipping away the spackle, accurately assessing our situations, and building new lives for ourselves. Me? *That* is something I can change, even to the point perhaps of learning to fall . . . up.

  • Amen sister! I was dumb enough, or morally outraged, or naive or something, to send a couple of “how dare you!” ; ” you call yourself a Christian, you’re a doctor, blah blah blah” emails to my wasband’s AP.

    What did I get for my troubles? She filed a restraining order against me, in a state where I had never been (the lawyers I had to hire enjoyed the question of jurisdiction, in that lovely, lawyerly way. Glad I could give someone something to make them happy…). But seriously!

    I learned that not only was a she NPD to a frightening degree, she was loaded for bear. Thankfully, I had smart lawyers, and they crafted a mutual non-contact agreement with penalties built in on both sides me (& wasband) versus crazy ho-bitch.

    That had the added fun of putting him on “my” team in the pick me scenario, which felt good at the time. (Later, I learned that it made him feel sad: all together now, awwww).

    The upshot is that there is a legally binding agreement in place that not only can I not contact her, wasband cannot contact her, and neither can she contact us, except through counsel. Hah! There are both legal and financial penalties.

    Of course, a little judicious Googling led me to her previous divorce records–all public records–and I discovered several previous affairs…surprise! mostly with the pastors and associated people at her church…where she liked to go and wear no underwear in the front row…ewww…(although, apparently, it worked.)

    So– the cautionary tale? her lawyering up and all that was from years of practice. Serial cheaters know the ropes, and they know how to serially cheat!

    And, this one is bat shit crazy, and I love bats. She’s a real bunny-boiler. Delusional. Made up stalker delusional. (At least I know that now, so if she comes at me again, I can point to the trail of crazy.)

    So the short version is: don’t bother (as CL advises.) . These are not people you want to have anything to do with. You wouldn’t touch them with your cheating husband’s dick, for reals.

    • I feel like I was reading my own story. The OW (now new wife) stuck her nose in custody dispute, saying how dare I take my daughter away from her and her family… Really WTF… didn’t you do the same thing to me when f’ing my husband. She took out an order of protection… same result, mutual restraining order…. Now she is prevented from ever watching/ or participating in my daughters school events, birthday parties… wow what an idiot… She is a bigger N then he is… I give it 5 years at best before it blows up in their face…

      Much love from one chump to another… Stay strong!

  • Do not lower yourself to their level. NO use in rolling around in the gutter with that filthy trash–you’re only gonna get dirty.

    I will never speak to that whore. She wouldn’t understand me, anyway. We do not think alike. At all. I am proud to say that we are on two TOTALLY different planes. I’m up here and she is down there.

    A woman who would do that to another woman and to kids is one fucked up individual.

    Her legacy on this earth will be that she hurts kids and will have been the worst thing to ever happen to my ex husband and my children.

    I want nothing to do with someone like that. She can have the coward. And all our bedding.

    • “we are on two TOTALLY different planes. I’m up here and she is down there.”

      I do feel the same way but when I express that. My cheating wife then gives me the “you are arrogant”, “You are judgmental”

      Just shows you that cheaters are on a different plane. You are doing something that is in my mind completely immoral and how dare I express my feelings that way.

      • people who accuse someone of being “judgmental” are also being judgmental.

        think about it. They say it when they don’t want to face a truth that is being presented to them about themselves.

      • Hell YES, I’m judgemental. Another way of saying it is that “I use good judgement.” I judge people’s behavior, and then I decide whether I respect them or like them or want to be their friend or have anything at all to do with them. I judge other people’s behavior to learn how and how not to behave myself. This has yielded very good results for me. I know the difference between right and wrong, and I use this as a guide when I am judging.
        Often I find that it is the sort of people who need to exercise better judgement who like to use the word “judgemental” as some sort of insult, ironically.

  • I actually did confront the AP. She knew damn well he had a family, and she didn’t care. My ex was all about portraying me as crazy and unsupportive and when I did confront her, she agreed with me that I ‘probably’ wasn’t crazy or a bitch, but it didn’t matter to her. She was in love, and nothing could stand in the way of that. What they had was special. When I was still drinking the reconciliation kool-aid, I asked her to go away, and let my family have a chance to heal from all that, she initially agreed, but in the same conversation she told me that she was only going to go away for a while, that he was worth waiting out the marriage for. (They never did end up together, he went with a different AP eventually)
    These AP’s don’t see reality the same way we do. To them, their feelings matter more than anything, and you can’t reason with that level of self interest.
    It wasn’t worth it, and she really just ended up telling me horrible things that I didn’t really want to know, things that affect my self-esteem to this day.

    • Yeah, the one conversation I had with final OW included her telling me how charming my ex is and how they fell in love. Gag….and duh…of course he’s charming. He’d been boning dipshits for years behind my back and knew how to lure dumbasses like her in. She just happened to ‘fall in love’ instead of seeing him for what the other OW apparently saw: a guy to fuck and have some fun with but not someone to take seriously. She took it seriously and bango…new sparkly kibbles for him. Whatever. He’s all hers and good luck to her. The man has never been faithful in his life…I sincerely doubt he’s suddenly turned over a new leaf, and if he has he’s going to resent the fuck out of her for making him keep his dick in his pants. Ha!

      • Isn’t it funny how charming they can be for everyone else except you? Everyone used to tell me what a great guy I had, I kept wondering who they were talking about.

        • Same here – like dealing with a bipolar – charming for the external world and verbally abusive to his own family (kids and his own mother including). Never happy with what he has. Other kids are always smarter and better, wife is never successful enough (me being the main bread winner for the majority of time) or interesting (yes, because I do not drink, smoke, or hang out at bars and clubs). Whenever presented with a gift, the first comment coming out of his mouth would be on things he didn’t like about it or the idea of getting this particular item or gesture. Forget about “thank you” for the thought… The list can go on, an on…. As, said many times here – I am the chump for tolerating it. Maybe I am just used to the “status” of being married

        • He was a great guy for me…right up until the moment I found out about his double life. Then he went full asshole.

          • AHA,

            I think your husband and my classic covert Narc STBX may be brothers from another mother.

            I don’t bother trying to explain to people how emotionally abusive he has been to me because no one would believe it or understand it. Of course, like any abuser, he was not always that way. I remember so many times of just laughter and sweetness, like with any abuser. If I was not in IC confronting everything that actually occurred in the relationship and why I am in therapy, I wouldn’t believe it myself.

  • I always admired the way Elizabeth Edwards handled her extremely public divorce from John Edwards. IMO, John Edwards and Rielle Hunter were two of the biggest narcs to walk the face of the planet. They deserved each other. Once John’s double life was exposed, Rielle Hunter told the press he went nuts. No more cake! No more kibbles! Of course John and Rielle are no longer together. Reality wasn’t nearly as fun as fantasy. Both of them are bat shit crazy.

  • I don’t know who’s more messed up my cheating wife for hooking up with her old divorced HS boyfriend that she dumped for cheating on her 25-30 yrs ago, or him going forward with an affair with his old HS girlfriend that he knew damn well was married. I guess it’s a tie.

    Early on I had a talk with the AP’s elderly father one day telling them just what was going on. (No yelling very calm.) He agreed that it was wrong etc etc and was not happy about it at all and would speak to him. It did feel good to let the secret out. Oh it pissed off the cheaters. Of course I was then called crazy by my cheating wife….. The AP’s step-mother went and started telling her friends about my wife. Not sure what she told anyone about her step son. I guess I don’t care. Here is where I still have trouble. He has a photo of me and an old mutual friend from 30 yrs ago on his facebook page making like we are good old friends. I am closer and closer to “meh” everyday but that still pisses me off and I just want to call him out to his friends about what he is really all about. I’m usually pretty calm but that still pisses me off.

  • I remember when I was in the “pick me dance”. The more I tried to get info to fix things, the more she hid it. The less I tried to fix it, the more she would try to emasculate me. It was extremely frustrating. She really just enjoyed hurting my ego.

    This is love?

    When I went to a therapist, she told me that my wife has serious issues and her AP has worse ones. It’s better to get off the roller-coaster and look at it than keep on the ride.

  • A friend of my ex was a friend and guide to him in his multiple affairs. I understood that he was cheating on his second wife, big time. I contacted his wife and learned that she was already in limbo-land like me. However, she lacked strength of character to fight against the injustice. By all accounts, she was suffering more badly than I was, which included domestic violence and blackmailing for their kid (6 years) together. I was appalled. I asked her to contact the first wife of her husband and understand how to go about protecting her son from being used to blackmail her. It was indeed a learning experience for Karma.

    There was another angle to the whole problem. She had played the role of co-conspirator with her husband, when he was involved in kidnapping of their daughter (from first wife) from the school. Apparently, the first wife had come looking for her daughter at their shared home (they were in live-in relationship before their second marriage). The first wife had cursed her for conniving with her ex-husband. But, she was unaffected. Karma had come full circle. She was being blackmailed into submission by using the same tactics that was used on her predecessor.

    Moral of the story: Though, APs (in this case co-conspirator) don’t understand what they are doing or even justify their doing…they get it back.

  • Agreed completely CL… Let’s just multiply the humiliation times three after I wrote his fuckbuddy a “never contact my husband ever again email,” only to realize that he wrote her to tell her to apologize to me. She said “words fail me… but I just want to say, I’m very sorry.”

    sure, that’s very obvious after their “5 plus years conspiracy to commit adultery.” (her words in an email I read on D-day #2. kinda incriminating, ain’t it?)

    The word “conspiracy” really rattled me. That’s just plain sick. And what’s sicker is that my was went LOOKING for these bimbos.

    And what did Lao Tsu say? “want is the greatest sin of all…” (I think that’s in line with “needs.” That word makes me feel really uncomfortable.) Someone with “needs” needs to fuck off!

    The only “need” I require from another human being is respect.

  • I had mixed results with confronting. I’m not sure the situation is the same when you know OW, especially if you had been friends. I confronted OW twice. The first time was to ask her to back off, before (I thought) it had actually turned into an affair. She said yes but, of course, she didn’t. She claimed that she tried. Yeah, that helps. Posh found out and ripped me apart for interfering with his plans. Not so successful.

    The second confrontation was much later, and it was only to protect my kids. I wanted to be sure that she would not, could not end up with one of my kids in her class, and I was going to use every bit of leverage I had to make sure of it. I recorded our conversation, just in case she accused me of anything. I found out that he had been abusing her too. She apologized and said that she wished she had listened to me when I told her not to get involved with him. The apology didn’t mean a hell of a lot, I really don’t believe that she has any shame, but that wasn’t what I was looking for.

    I guess I was lucky. It was a huge relief to know that my kids wouldn’t have an issue at school. I had been so angry with her. When I saw how terrified she was of him, I figured she’d paid the price. That allowed me to shift my anger back to posh where it belongs.

    CL is spot on that you aren’t going to change the AP. If the minor inconvenience of the marriage didn’t keep them from starting the affair, it’s not going to make them stop, or even make them feel bad about it.

    Next step – get away.

  • I know the AP, but I’ve not confronted either her or STBXH about the cheating. Why not? Because there’s no reason to do so. What’s the AP supposed to do, stop cheating with other people’s husbands? My STBX isn’t her first married man, and he won’t be her last. What’s my STBXH supposed to do–unfuck the OW? Untell the lies? Unspend the time he took her to restaurants he was “too tired” to take me to?

    OW is objectively a mess. She’s made passes at just about every man in STBXH’s workplace, and successfully slept with at least three men there. One of these was a recently-divorced young man, also one of STBXH’s subordinates. The subordinate turned her down, later telling STBXH that the attention was nice, but “you have to respect yourself in the morning.”

    This is the point. STBX doesn’t respect himself, let alone me. Why should I fight for him? He opted for someone whom everyone else would recognize as a trade down. OW, on the other hand, is pathetic and predatory. Even though I’m not sure that STBX is a narc, she is definitely NPD. The best revenge is for me to let the two of them have each other.

    I cannot think of any reason to confront either party until after the divorce is finalized and I get my 50% of the settlement. At that point, I think I’d like to tell both STBX and OW , “congratulations. I win.”

  • I love this post. But I’m having such a hard time feeling like he chose her over me. I did confront her in the beginning – she lied and said she didn’t know about me. Come to find out 10 months later she did – lying sack of shit – just like him. And they had continued the affair and are now blissfully together (long distance – haha – let’s see how long that lasts) The funny thing is he has seriously downgraded in every way. She is not as pretty, educated, sophisticated or even half the woman I am. But regardless it still hurts knowing he is with her now. I guess I am still spackling – because when I read these posts I realize they deserve each other. He is a spineless liar and cheater who has no morals and she is just as bad and deserves a worthless person such as him. I just wish I didn’t feel so angry about it…But I do and I spend way too much time thinking about how happy they are together now. I just pray for the day I don’t care anymore. These people are so below me. Superficially and otherwise. And now I just want Karma to come in and have them hurt as much as they have made me do.

    • I pray for the same thing…I remind myself that he will eventually treat her the same way he did me!!

      • Yes, he will. In my case they are communicating online (talking about crossing borders and oceans). But in the little communication I have seen between them, I can spot the true him coming out. This was in the earlier stages when one would expect love bombing and pink glasses in hearts shape

  • You know.. the risk is often too great, but I remember a friend of mine did confront the AP. We cautioned him against it, but he assured us.. no harm will befall the AP, I just have one thing to say to him. The AP was an aquaintence of us all and we knew both he and his fiancee. His WW was not yet aware that he knew… so she was out with her AP. After all our friend told her he got the late shift that night. Should mention this was before Cellphones were commonplace.

    We tried and tried to convince our friend not to go. Basicaly used all the reasons CL stated. But he was adamant. Our first stop was to the AP’s Finacee. We left a GF behind to console her after he told her the news.

    Afterward we waited just outside my friends place in the spot the AP would drop her off. They stopped the car and my friend walked up to it, gently knocked on the window both WW and her AP went completely white. As promised he said one thing.. “your finacee would like to talk to you” .. completely ignored his WW and walked home. His WW got out of the car and ran after him.. he ignored her the entire 2 block walk. She tried to talk her way out of it.. When he didnt respond.. she started on the sorrys. I didnt mean to hurt you.. etc.. He walked into the house closed the door in her face and locked the door.

    Earlier in the day he had changed the locks on the door and moved all of her clothes in 4 garbage bags and put them in the trunk of her car. On the dash was a note stating she was to stay at her parents. There was alot of craziness on her part and that of her friends to try to get tem back together, but they were legally separated in 2 weeks and divorced in a year. I still dont think he has said one word directly to her since that night.. 15 years ago.

    I truly dont know how he did it. But he managed to confront the both of them without giving his WW those wonderful kibbles.. didn’t threaten or hurt anyone and we knew the AP well enough to know he wasn’t insane.

    • hdan – Wow, that is pretty darn cool. If you’re going to confront, that is *the* way to do it.

    • Like a fucking #BOSS!

      What’s your friend’s name? Charlie Bronson? THAT’S how you handle your business!

      I’m totally having a drink tonight in his honor.

    • OMG, I LOVE this story! I feel all good inside just thinking about it, and I don’t even know the guy!

      • My friend was a complete mess for weeks afterward. Like he spent all his strength reserves on this one encounter. But he remained like stone whenever he had to deal with his STBXW. I only wish I had the same strength on my discovery.

        The reason we were so concerned was he was a former airborne ranger and at the time worked as a security consultant (read bodyguard) on the payroll of a local big name celebrity. He could have easily destroyed the AP. So while there was 3 of us there to support him, we were mostly there for the unenviable task of saving the AP’s hide (and by extension our friend) should things get out of hand. BTW..I wasn’t sure then that 3 of us would have been enough.

  • Agreed. The only time to confront is if you know 100% that the AP knows nothing about you. Then they’re a chump, too, and deserve to know.

    Otherwise, not much good comes of it.

    I agonized (and fantasized about) whether to confront mine. She knew damn well about me – pregnant at home. After reading lots of advice, I decided not to confront. This is the ultimate high-road, I think. Act like the AP isn’t important.

    I think APs expect a bit of confrontation – they’re big shots, after all – so sexy that they lured a married person. Irresistable, right? The chump should be mad as hell, of course, right? Plus I kind of have a feeling that some of these cheater-AP types like the drama of it. Makes them feel oh-so-central. Well, no….I acted like she was of no consequence. Don’t know how it made the AP feel, but I sure know it took my husband by surprise. He expected a duel. He didn’t get one.

    (Like a chump, I did the Pick-Me-Dance, though, so he still got plently of kibbles.) But at least the AP didn’t get a “funny story about that crazy jilted-wife of the hot cop I was banging” to tell to her fucked up drinking buddies. She got no extra drama to add excitement to her life. Not from me.

    What I did do: After dday, my husband was supposedly going to leave me and run off with the AP, into the sunset. But he was actually in (false) R with me. So, I carried on just as I always had – when we went out, I happily posted to FB about it. When we went on a weekend-long family reunion toegether, I happily posted to FB about it, and tagged him in the photos of us smiling together. Since the AP was following his FB wall, she could see those photos – within hours he was fielding angry texts from her. Turns out, he had told her he was going to be somewhere else that weekend and got busted…..she didn’t particularly like being lied to. Shocker. Again, I really don’t know how the AP felt but I do know that her reaction spoke volumes.

    That was the only small satisfaction I ever got, throughout the entire dday-falseR thing. But I was able to enjoy it a little bit because I did take the high road (I only posted to FB as I normally did throughout our marriage), with no regard to the AP at all. She just happened to see it and put two-and-two together about my husband’s lying. I never confronted her at all, didn’t talk about her to my husband. I can look back knowing that I have nothing on my record that could legally or otherwise come back to bite me – no crazy moments or accusations.

    • DLU, you are so right that the APs often like the drama of how they’re so sexy they lured the married man away. I guess that OM get some of the same feeling. In my case, I read texts from OW saying, “remember how when I came over to watch the football game with you and kb and kb kept sitting between us and being jealous of how much attention you were giving me?”

      I do remember when she came over to watch the game. In fact, I was the one getting drinks and finding the food. The only attention I seem to remember her getting from STBX was his concern that she had maybe drunk too much (she had, but I had no idea that she’d had nearly the entire bottle of Bailey’s Irish Cream that she’d brought over).

      DLU, I also endulged in the FB mindfuck. STBX had brought home a red rose from a fraternal function. He gave it to me, but not before he’d taken a picture of it and posted it on his FB page. I posted underneath it that it was a beautiful rose, and I so very much loved that he’d given it to me. OW had a fit, telling him that “one rose means one woman.” He tried to tell her that it was free, so it didn’t matter if he gave it to me. She needed “expensive things.”

      This is why he sends her faux silver jewelry from that costs under $10.

      I cannot imagine how he’ll feel when he finds out that his “free” wife will cost him 50% of his assets.

      • I have a story to tell about one AP in my case too. I knew that this AP was shunted by her husband cos he came to know about my exH and AP’s affair (though he didn’t think it was physical). She started pressurizing my exH for marriage. All her discussions were around this matter: when was he divorcing me to marry her? my exH was in false-R with me. Somewhere inside him all the lure of AP was gone under the pressurizing thing. I was ignorant (till then he thought I knew almost nothing about the affair) and behaved as if I knew nothing of his pressures. I had the satisfaction of her walking away after cursing my exH very badly. She wrote to my exH, “People like you should have a line written on your forehead: Beware Gals. He is a cheater and liar pig!” Hahaha! That was my retribution. None of them got anything from that affair.

  • I’ve been reading your posts voraciously as a poster child for chumpdom. I did contact my husbands office ho-workers, only to let them know that I knew and to make sure that each knew about the others. I also suggested that my husband had an incurable STD they might want to ask him about (heh heh). I then meticulously assembled pages of incriminating evidence and hand delivered it to their husbands. While I don’t recommend this because you never know whose husband might go nutso, I figured any of the players involved shouda thought about that before they commenced their strategic assault on my precarious sanity. (I had been gaslighted for years!) I know, sounds vindictive, but it still makes me smile. One other “feel good” for those who can’t resist a detour on the high road, the website allows you to create a petition which I did for each of the three women who thought they had trumped me by allowing my husband to have meaningless sex with them. They probably will never see them, but I get a cheap thrill every time I type in “Mary Wolff is a crack whore” and watch it pop up with 5,000 signatures! After 2 1/2 years of much nicer behavior (most of the time) I’m filing for divorce. The worst part is recognizing that I projected my husband’s honesty and loyalty and realizing that it’s a pipe dream. You guys rock! So glad I found you.

    • Welcome Danette!
      Oh, I’m all about letting the other betrayed spouses/chumps know. So, I think it was right to deliver evidence to those husbands.

      Glad your repetionr tactic worked for you. But with a nutty AP, they’re bound to pull the same stunt on you. I didn’t communicate much with the long-term OW in my story, but she signed me up for spam, created fake dating sites, let me know she knew my age, height, where I lived. Super creepy stuff.

      If you do it to them — they love a tar baby — don’t be surprised if they do it back. Poetic justice is really letting them have the cheater. I’ve yet to hear a happy ever after story on that.

      • Thanks, I love what you’ve got going on here! I did all the “transform yourself into someone you’ll despise to get him back” sites and I never could pull it off for more that five minutes. Wow – you got the deluxe double psycho mind-Fck – so sorry you had to go through it and so glad you’ve got GOOD now. I agree with the tar baby thing, but his OW’s weren’t any more serious about him than he was them – brackish water seeks itself. And, I didn’t tell them about the repetionr petitions, it’s a secret pleasure (but I did show one of them to SBXH).

    • Danette, I think a lot of us projected that stuff. I know I used to say Ex was one of the few people in his field with integrity. Hahaahaha….turns out he’s not nearly as highly regarded in his field as he thinks. People told me a few things after I kicked him out about this area of his life and it was certainly an eyeopener. I really was dumb and blind.

  • This post is golden wisdom. Really. When it comes to the AP, just. Don’t. Bother. Chances are, if they aren’t in the dark and a chump too, then they are either completely crazy, completely pathetic, or completely narcisisstic. ….Or all three.

    I’ve heard a lot of sob-stories from AP’s who want sympathy for not being chosen over the spouse, or the vomit-inducing pining of “When is he going to leeeeeave her? Why is he hurrting meeee? He said…” or the “If she wanted to keep him, she should have tried harder” bullshit.

    And it is. All. Bullshit. If he hasn’t left his wife for the OW yet, he isn’t going to and the OW has no basis to whine. If she chooses to stay with her husband and dumps the OM, it’s likely there will just be another one shortly down the road. And with the last one? Psh, what can be said about AP’s who are so profoundly full of themselves? If they are so great, why can’t they get their OWN spouse who ISN’T already in a relationship?

    Unless you’re 100% beyond shadow of a doubt sure that the AP is actually being chumped too, don’t bother with them. It’s walking into the Bog of Eternal Stench.

  • I did it. Against the better judgement of my therapist and my friends. I calmly called her one night from stbx’s phone. Pretty much told her what I thought of her, and how I wanted my husband to stay with his family. It caught her off guard, she could only say OK after every sentence I said. However the next day she must have given stbx an earful at work and he came home like a raging lunatic. I felt it was worth it, it made me feel better, but it didn’t fix anything like I had hoped.

    Fast forward two years to last year – dickhead and I are now separated. I found a love letter to her in our jointly owned vehicle and took a picture of it. Wow, this should go over good with her fiancé (who happens to be someone else, NOT my stbx). My friends and I thought of all the great wedding gifts we could make for her. How about a framed wedding invitation with the love letter as the matte? Or matching coffee cups with half the letter for her and half for him? Or T-shirts that said Bride, Groom and Bride’s Boyfriend with the letter imprinted on the back. A couple hundred flyers of the letter strewn about her yard on the day of the wedding. The list went on and on.

    In other words, it is much more fun to plot against the AP than stoop to their level. Laughing with friends is much better for your soul than agonizing over the AP.

    Now, the AP and her husband are moving – so one of my stbx’s ,ex- friends has volunteered to go to her house and put a picture of stbx in her lingerie drawer during the real estate open house. Won’t they be surprised when they need something out of that drawer 😀

    As hard as this whole process of chumpdom is – make sure you surround yourself with good friends. My friends have been the greatest source of strength through this whole process. When my divorce is final I am throwing them a party to show them my appreciation.

    • I love the idea of wedding gifts that are reflections of the affair. I so would have done that.

  • Well I came face to face with chainsaw man this week outside court.
    He now uses hair dye. He has a hip or very bad knee problem. He wobbles from side to side as walks.
    He doesn’t have the balls to say anything.
    It’s all about entitlement. He is the purest narc you will find.
    Don’t talk to either of them. Just observe their actions.
    How they put each other before their own children. Note how they have lost all their friends. ( funny how married friends stay away once they discover the affair)
    Don’t give them oxygen. Give them nothing. No kibbles!

    I derived so much pleasure in observing who I had been replaced by this week. Funny ,but I expected a handsome ,fit , younger athletic type but got exactly the opposite.

    Everyone and I mean everyone tells me it won’t last but I think they are stuck together like shit to a blanket.

    • Baci, now that you’ve come face-to-face with what sounds like a hobbling old man, I hope you’ll finally be able to heal and most importantly evict chainsaw man from your mental dwellings.

      You’ve written so many comments about him that I can almost recite his life story back to you: Middle-aged New Zealander CEO lives in Oz and took up with your materialistic wife but has a wife and kids back home that he sends money to, etc.

      You’ve admitted to being “obsessed” with him in past comments but now that you’ve met him, maybe you’ll finally be able to take back your mental real estate.

      Do keep us posted. We only want the best for you. 🙂

      • Aw, Chris! You are so sweet! And I agree with you!

        I, too, recently saw something that set me right and put me light years ahead of where I’d been mentally.

        I saw xH’s new love nest that he shares with OW. It is a complete DUMP. He apparently is fond of hauling garbage (projects! he is creative!) to the house and dumping it the front yard. The lawn is never mowed and so it is just weeds growing around and through the junk. Nature! The white deck paint is peeling. He is too busy playing and having fun to take care of the “home” they share. Actually, he just lives there–it’s her house. Well, one her husband bought for her and my ex, so wtf should my ex care? Such a romantic story. It made me realize once and for all–he’s crazy! It made me feel so much better! I’ve never met the twat and I don’t want to, but I’m sure she is BSC.

  • Once again CL, you are right on the money with this post!

    The most effective and powerful thing I ever did was NOT respond to a three-page letter sent to me and my children’s therapists from the bimbo when my two teens put water in her daughter’s gas tank because the daughter did something really nasty to one of them.

    The following gems are from her “Letter of Concern.” However, it was actually written by X while the two of them were at work one Friday. Dumbasses didn’t know that one can figure out who authored something in Microsoft Word by looking at Properties. I’ll bet it took them all day on their employers dime. Maybe that’s why X is now unemployed? Read on ONLY if you have a strong stomach for putrid hyperbole and hypocrisy (we were still married by the way, and X had already moved in with the bimbo and her 19-year old daughter and her teen boyfriend)…

    “I understand the hurt that divorce can bring, and the confusion it can cause. But I want to remind you all that you are not the only ones who have gone through this. My daughter endured it as well, when my marriage of 28 years ended suddenly a few years ago. For myself, I try to maintain a strong Catholic faith and strive to forgive as I seek forgiveness. We all need to move on and deal with the circumstances that are in front of us. [Daughter] is not aware of any of this has happened, and ideally I would like to keep it that way in hope of fostering friendships among her and your sons. For all our children’s best interest, let’s show them the meaning of forgiveness, be adaptable to all situations, and show compassion for one another. ”

    When I chose not to respond to her, I received this email from X on Monday morning…

    “Your lack of cooperation in this matter is very telling. The victimized party made a gracious and generous offer to have a discussion in an effort to spare your children the ignominy of being arrested and charged with a crime. Your flat refusal and overall attitude have so far been distressing. It’s not lost on anyone that if the victim were anybody else, you would have been halfway through your apology tour by noon Wednesday, and you would have sent both boys over with shovels, rakes, paint brushes, or other tools to try to make amends. But the fact that this is someone you chose to dehumanize and decided it’s okay to hate apparently justifies inaction and irresponsibility. ”

    In CheaterWorld, they were my sons, not our sons. My son’s actions were my fault. And the bimbo — not the daughter — was the “victim.” And not telling the daughter what happened was to spare her and hopefully keep yet another lie in play.

    CL is right. Batshit crazy feeds off of batshit crazy. Better not to engage. I hope it sent the message that I’m not interested in playing any role in their fantasy world. I just want to move farther and farther away from the embarrassment that was my marriage to a self-absorbed asshole.

    Looks to me like he found his perfect match.

    • I got the same sort of pompous, condescending emails when my children wanted to know why I would never associate with the OW (who, at that point, was their dad’s new GF), and I had simply told them at the time that she had made some “bad choices.” Well, you would have thought that I had told the kids that she was nothing but a dirty, lying slut. I posted the email here where he tried to intimidate me into resuming my role as a doormat. It was both ridiculous and offensive. That they dare talk down to the people they cheated on just shows how out of touch with reality they are and how undesirable they are as people. We are certainly better off without these windbags.

      • Not for nothing Moving On, but she is a dirty, lying slut. That you chose to be a lady with your children says more about you than her. Bad choices, indeed. In my best Ruth Gordon voice, “Good for you!”

      • My ex puts a holier-than-thou spin on his pomposity and condescension. It’s nauseating and just what is needed to infuriate the kids without one word from me. Keep it up, idiot.

        I guess when you’ve made an “honest woman” out of your whore you get the absolute right to tell everyone where to get off.

  • Different point of view here:
    Many of you know my story but for any new people I will tell it again briefly.
    I went to the OW because my ex has never admitted or will discuss anything about his ‘personal’ life.
    I have known this woman for years. They are law partners and that is how no one knew anything.
    She told me that they were a couple. While I thought her logic was nuts, it gave me closure. It made me feel like I wasn’t crazy.
    Most importantly, it also gave me a good road map for my legal team to follow. Now that I knew what was going on, it wasn’t hard to trace what he had tried to hide.
    Without the information from the OW, I never would have gotten such a good settlement.
    So, CL, never say never.

    Now that the divorce is final, she can absolutely have him. I will happily spend half of everything he had to cough up because she ‘outed’ him.

    • I’m glad it worked for you, Rebecca! She has to be all kinds of stupid. Talking to you was her undoing — or his. There must be some Machiavellian pay off for her (like she wants his cheating ass.)

  • I want to but won’t mostly because it won’t do ME any good and I might get a little crazy.

  • What I can’t stand is the fact that I have never contacted the OW in any way, shape, or form, and I have no desire to. However, when you have an ex who is actually stupid enough to marry the AP, there’s going to come a point when we’ll likely have to deal with each other. My plan (unless there’s some sort of medical emergency, in which case I’ll have to just deal with her in a businesslike manner like she’s a stranger) is to pretend that she isn’t there and not acknowledge her presence at all. If she forces the matter, though, then I guess I’ll go with what CL mentioned in a previous post: “Surely you must know what I think of you!”

    It sucks when they actually get married. Even if things eventually go down in flames, they’ll probably try harder to hold things together for longer because they’re now mired in a legal contract to each other (and likely also want to prove “to the world” how their marriage was “meant to be” and not a colossal mistake).

    Anyone else have an ex married to the AP? How do you handle it, especially when there are kids involved?

    • If I see her, I throw daggers, because I feel I’m entitled. She throws them right back. If he’s stupid enough to bring her to a family function uninvited (kids graduations) then he shouldn’t be surprised when NEITHER of them are invited to weddings. I think if it were up to the ex, he might have honored the kids wishes, but he’s her turf now and she makes sure she guards it.

      She (and the ex) tried mightily to patronize the kids into liking her. It didn’t work because all the gripes about me that the ex invented to justify the affair, the kids just didn’t have. They didn’t know what the hell they were talking about.

    • “Even if things eventually go down in flames, they’ll probably try harder to hold things together for longer because they’re now mired in a legal contract to each other …”

      Oh, THAT’s fun! How romantic! How dreamy! How sexy!

  • Also wanted to add that I am lucky. At age 50, she gave up her chance to have kids and and a marriage while waiting for him. I wonder how many abortions he made her have all those years. That alone is very sad.
    She has a mean, used up, pathetic, angry psychopath as a boyfriend…one that has to pay his wife every month for the next 14 years. One that is very upset that he lost his children when they found out what he had done. She provides a lot of the money they use.
    They deserve each other.

  • To all…
    Never get the OW involved in your “psych-drama”.
    It just might land YOU on the wrong side of the law.
    I am the OW .. I met a man on Ashley Madison. We struck up a friendship, yes dating for months..yes it became sexual.We are older I was 54, he was 63(altho he lied about his age.. surprise !!!) We saw each other for 3 yrs, in the past year it was more friendship than any thing else. I NEVER asked him to leave his “W”, never pressured him I would have taken this to my grave ! I did ask him why he cheats on her.. why not get a divorce?… of course he didn’t want to give up any $$$$$. It was his 2 marriage, he had been “cleaned out ” before.
    Contrary to popular belief.. he “affairred up”. I have an MBA.. own my own biz, attractive, 5 yrs OLDER than the “W”.. he is 9 yrs older than me .. 14 yrs older than”W”. I WAS married have 2 grown sons and a darling grand-daughter.
    She literally is “trailer trash” really ! Married 1st”H” @ 21…he was a meth maker & dealer living in a trailer..the kind you hitch to a truck and go.
    MM owns his own engineering co… they knew each other thru work. They found each yrs later.. both divorced… he was a very lonely , too kind, horny older man. She fucked his brains out, and asked him to move in with her 1 month later. She knew he had $$$ and was building a luxury home as to not pay cap. gains tax. Sure enough when the home was done she moved her white trash ass in.
    They lived together for 5 years… until she nagged him into marriage.
    He has been cheating on her 9 yrs.. been married 12.
    I always told MM to “fix it or finish it” because it is not fair to any one especially his “W”.(See…. I’m a “good whore”)
    He doesn’t think he loves her(Yes Mommy issues.. alcoholic… killed herself in front of him @age 8.. no therapy)
    He wanted me to be his friend as he went thru therapy… non sexual at this point . He was starting to see OW who was a former employee. I knew, didn’t really care.
    One day he sent me a text about my painting contractor….wanted some more work done. I sent him the contact info and also texted “the next time you lie to me…. remember it…. I DO !” He had told me he would go to therapy, I gave him a referral.NO, DID NOT GO.. but said he DID.Cheaters are LIARS, remember that ! He texted me some more bullshit… my text was ” You broke a friends trust… hurt by your lies ! Good Night!”
    T.T “W” went crazy…called me asking “what is your name WHORE !!!???”. I hung up on her.. he called again 6 times.. left obscene messages.
    MM called me 2 hrs later… left a V.M. he sounded out of breath and it was oddly quiet in the back ground… honestly…. I thought he had killed her ! I called him back … he told me that “I’m married … you have GOT to stop chasing after me… you are “fucking up my marriage !” Remember he has been on cheating websites for years. I was stunned ! I NEVER once called him, I NEVER initiated contact.. I never made any problem for him… I NEVER wanted her to know !
    I hung up… she called again 4 more time that night into the wee hours of the morning.
    He called from another phone @5:30 A.M. and told me he was sorry to wake me… then she came into the room.. he started yelling, screaming profanity… then called again at 10:30 to apologize… but to tell me his “W” was on her way to my home. NO he wasn’t worried that she may harm me .. or that I would harm her… NO ! He quickly told me all the lies that he had told her during an all night interrogation . He expected me to corroborate his lies to cover his ass !
    I told him I would call the police…. she showed up… told her to leave….she wouldn’t…. I called the police… yes , pressed charges for trespassing for her and phone harassment for him. They both were guilty of harassment… but charges are filed by the phone number .. she used HIS. We go to court in Nov. …. they are looking at fines up to 2500.00.
    He should have never drug me into their “psycho-drama” NO! I didn’t expect him to side with me.. CHEATERS are Chicken Shits… I DID expect him to leave me out . rather than use me a “WHORE SHIELD ” against that homely hag of wife.
    TRUST THAT CHEATERS SUCK ! and all of this has made everything so much worst. BTW.. My Atty wrote both of them a No Contact letter, and I am exploring more legal action against both of them.
    Oh yes… they are still together..,it has been a year… that” Gold-Digging piece of Trailer Trash “CAN be bought !
    A cautionary tale .

    • Wow. So, um, everybody here is going to want to know — are you going to try Ashley Madison again?

      • I have been off for over 3 years…. lots of “interesting men”… some very sweet, some funny .. very influential , powerful men… truly a study in human behavior…. and
        YES I may write a book… not “pro-whore” but more of a funny stupid shit Cheaters will say and do. Laughable…” crazy pro-files and user names”.. I have saved almost all.
        Not to worry tho.. the names will be changed to protect the GUILTY !
        DA – Da – Da… (old Dragnet t.v. series)

        • What funny stupid shit do cheaters say and do?

          Being absolutely devastated at the outcome of funny stupid shit, I would be interested to hear.

        • Yeah, I don’t think you understand.

          The point is not “Don’t contact the AP because they don’t need drama” it’s “Don’t contact the AP because YOU don’t need their drama.”

          You’re proving the latter.

      • I’m still trying to wrap my mind around you being “dragged” into “their psycho-drama.” IMHO, it appears you volunteered for “psycho-drama” duty when you started seeing another woman’s husband – whatever your motivation might have been.

        • Seriously, they “dragged” you into their psychodrama? Are you insane? You signed up for their drama. Is evrybody just nuts? First the “letter to the wife of my boyfriend” and now there is the OW not wanting any drama? I’m going to bed. I can’t take anymore.

        • Oh yeah…. easy to blame , easy to judge.
          My Mantra on being on A Madison,
          “There’ s honor .. even among thieves “… I keep secrets .
          While they are in false R.. he is seeing this woman that used to work for him. I am sure they didn’t tell anyone about this mess , his NUMEROUS affairs… so when the smoke has cleared.
          I think “Mama & Daddy Trailer Trash ” will be getting a FedX package with a pic of MM showing me his new grandson that he texted an hour after his birth… “W” took the photo and they will be receiving a stack of texts all about him wanting to meet up , come by for a glass of wine, lunch dates as well as his “blue balls” from being so horny. I also think his neighbors, his biz partner and her Boss, ( his good friend that got her a job) will also receive the same package.
          Happy “Whore – A – days” !
          NEVER contact the A.P. and NEVER LIE ABOUT an A.P… it will come back to bite you in ASS !

          • Whore :
            A woman who trades sex for money , material wealth.

            “Mrs.Trailer Trash is the very definition of a” whore” and I think any woman who marries for money or stays for the money is just that . IMHO !

            I NEVER asked for anything …. so really “whore ” is not properly used for me.IMHO

            • I see your hatred. Until that “psych-drama” the cheater was a “good soul with some untreated psych issues and trapped with a gold-digger”. After that point he is a “liar” and a “cheater”. It is all about how he behaved with “YOU”. Until that point his “cheating with his wife” was justified. He might have told innumerable lies to his wife about his whereabouts etc. (easy to guess what must be going on at home); but his “lies to his wife” was also justified. Never did it cross YOU that tables could be turned. That he was a cheating and lying bastard, who could team up with his wife to disgrace “YOU” or use “YOU”.
              Can you see your huge sense of entitlement there? Do you think you yourself need to see the therapist you had looked up for this pig? I mean, seriously. What is it with the wiring of you people who believe thugs and think that you are immune to all of it because it is “YOU”

          • Doesn’t matter if she was a gold digger. She was his wife. You are not. Therefore the circumstances of their marriage were none of your business, nor was it your place to decide you needed to step in.

            He’s a cheater and a liar. You knew that. Did you think you were special? What made you think that there would be no drama with you or that he wouldn’t lie to you? Seriously, I want to know what made you think it would be smooth sailing with you?

            And really…you were the OW. He was CHEATING WITH YOU. What made you think he wouldn’t cheat ON you?

            I see you have a mantra. Well, I have my own mantra. “If he’ll cheat with you, he’ll cheat ON you.” And there it is. He cheated with you and ON you. So clearly, you were NOT special. If you didn’t want drama, you should not have gotten involved with a married man. Plain and simple. Even if his wife was the most awful woman in on the planet. It ain’t your problem, it ain’t your responsibility and it AIN’T YOUR MARRIAGE so you have absolutely ZERO room to complain. None. You got involved with a man you knew was married. So any drama that befell you was brought on yourself. That was your own damn fault from day one.

            You won’t find any sympathy here. We support each other on this site, but you will not find sympathy if you were actually the other woman and you’re here to whine about how your married boyfriend cheated on you while he was cheating on his wife with you. You won’t find sympathy for any drama you caused or any drama his wife sent your way.

            “Easy to blame, easy to judge.”

            …Oh please, please, please can I put that in the “Stupid shit the Affair Partner Says” thread? Can I? Seriously. You’re coming here, openly stating that you were the other woman, whining about how he wouldn’t leave his wife for you, and then bitching about the drama that caused. You are both blaming his wife and him, and then judging her. Did she REALLY marry him for his money? Or is that just what he TOLD you? If that’s what he told you, it’s likely that was a load of shit.

            Either way, it’s clear you are telling yourself that to absolve yourself of any responsibility for getting involved with a married man. “Oh she’s a gold digger and I have an MBA!” Congratu-frikkin-lations. No one gives a crap. You could have three MBA’s and you’d still be an arrogant narcissist who got involved with a married man and is pissy that it didn’t work out the way you wanted it.

            Do yourself, and the rest of us, a favor, and go away. Seriously. No one here wants to hear you whine about your self-inflicted drama. And I assure you no one here will want to read your book either. Maybe some of us might read it on the toilet and subsequently use the pages as toilet paper, but that’s about it.

            Bottom line, you got involved with a married man, you’re mad that he didn’t leave her for you, you’re mad that the tables got turned, and you’re trying to absolve yourself with a bunch of overblown justifications.

            You could have at least typed coherently.

            • Sweetie..
              such vitriol . Perhaps you fail to understand what my message was. The topic was the futility of confronting the A.P… so let me try and make my point clear .
              Yes PISSED that he made me out to be the “evil other woman” that came into his lovely , happy life and forced him to cheat . Although he had been doing so for almost his entire marriage.He was certain that she would leave him if she ever found out about it…. I always re- assured she would never leave him, never give up the life style that she managed to “fuck” herself into.
              I guess I was right ! He said he told her that we had been seeing each other for 3 years, he was on Ashley Madison, we had other affairs, we had un-protected sex (old men HATE condoms.. but made him & I both be tested before ) Told her that we have a very close relationship , the best, closest one he has ever had with a woman, and that we had been in their home , making love( having sex.. fucking take your pick ) in every room in the house including their marital bed.. in their shower…. and of course … she did indeed stayed ! See: whore on a previous post.
              The point is very simple.
              1) I have no shame (remember ?)
              2) “I am “Bat Shit Crazy ( that was # 2 on Cl list)
              3) Kibbles for your cheater ( I am sure he got a hard on just thinking about the “make up ” sex she will gladly give him.)…. like a dog pissing to mark her territory.
              I was relaying a story.. one to inform why NOT to contact the A.P. I never wanted her “fucked up ” husband… I just wanted to “fuck” her husband ! See the difference ?
              Get your shit together…. never blame the A.P. They never made a vows to you.Be angry to the one who betrayed you, lied to you and knew better and did it anyway.
              BTW…. “we” never think of you, when we are with your”H”… so don’t give yourself so much credit. When we are together, we have more interesting things to talk about, do & think…. and it’s NOT about you !

              • Dearie, we know you’re not thinking of us when you fuck our husbands. That’s obvious enough in the fact that you are fucking our husbands.

                “I never wanted her “fucked up ” husband… I just wanted to “fuck” her husband ! See the difference ?”

                Oh well that just changes everything. XD Do you even read back what you say? No, really, do you? I mean, if you did, you would see how completely asenine you are. I mean come on. “I didn’t want her fucked up husband, I wanted to fuck her husband.” Well, you had to want him on some level otherwise you wouldn’t have done just that. There is no difference and even if there was it wouldn’t matter. He was married and you weren’t his wife. Therefore you had no place fucking him.

                “Kibbles for your cheater ( I am sure he got a hard on just thinking about the “make up ” sex she will gladly give him.)…. like a dog pissing to mark her territory.”

                Newsflash, that IS her territory. It was always HER territory. It was NEVER YOURS. It became her territory when they signed the marriage contract. For which you were not present or part of. I’m sure you got your panties in all kinds of a twist when YOU thought of the makeup sex because he was having it with her, HIS WIFE, and not you. ‘Nother news flash, he never should have been having it with you in the first place so you have no room to get pissy about that.

                ” I always re- assured she would never leave him, never give up the life style that she managed to “fuck” herself into.”

                Then why didn’t YOU leave? Why did you start having the affair in the first place? And honey, she didn’t fuck herself into the lifestyle. HE did. He put her there. When he cheated. With you.

                “Get your shit together…. never blame the A.P. They never made a vows to you.Be angry to the one who betrayed you, lied to you and knew better and did it anyway.”

                We absolutely DO blame the betrayer. We will absolutely blame the AP when she knowingly fucks a married man as well. If a married man approaches another woman, she CAN say no. So don’t act like there’s no fault here. You, as the OW, ALSO knows better and did it anyway. You are just as much to blame for making the shitty and selfish decision of fucking someone else’s husband. COME ON now.

                And yeah, you didn’t make any vows. BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE MARRIAGE.

                “so don’t give yourself so much credit. When we are together, we have more interesting things to talk about, do & think…. and it’s NOT about you !”

                Yeah, don’t give ourselves credit for being the, y’know, ACTUAL SPOUSE. How DARE we expect our spouses to abide by the agreements made in a marriage. How could we possibly have the gall to expect said spouse to be honest and loyal and not stab us in the back by fucking WHORES. Yes, WHORES. Doesn’t matter if you’re not accepting money. You are having illicit sex with someone who is using deceit and dishonesty to do so. The person who is upholding their marriage vows to be faithful is not the whore. The person committing the adultry is. And the person willingly doing it with them is.

                More interesting things to talk about huh? Like what? Right about now, for serious, I am picturing you two talking about rainbows and unicorns and baking cookies in a fairy tale woodland cottage with 7 little dwarves. I don’t think there is a damn thing you two could be talking about that isn’t both self-serving and derivative.

                “and it’s NOT about you !”

                ….Are you kidding me?

                You’re really making this easy for me. I mean, really. Usually I don’t feed the trolls, but come on. Do you honestly wonder why we call you AP’s selfish? Is that truly a mystery to you? You sit here, whine about how your skeezy married boyfriend didn’t leave his wife for you and then you’re making it all about you. …Really. Just…do you hear yourself talk? I’m just going to go ahead and assume that you’re joking here. Because I find it hard to believe that anyone could actually be so profoundly delusional.

                But then again, you are the AP who came to a support site for people who have actually got a reason to be angry. So maybe it is.

                And I assure you, none of the self-serving babble you’re spewing at me right now is stinging on any level. And it’s so simple that it’s like playing Tetris on easy. You’re actually making my night more fun. I have already read our exchange back a few times and actually, honestly, LOL’d. Not a lot of things on the internet actually make me LOL for real. But you did. Thanks for that.

              • BTW, I read all this back to my mom and husband.

                They both laughed their asses off at you.

              • Can’t you see how cruel he is to her? Saying those things? What a horrible, horrible human being.

                You and he deserve eachother. What a pity he puts $$$$$$ before you.

              • Kara,

                You rock!!

                Evil Other Woman,

                May I add that not accepting money in exchange for being a whore does not stop you from being a whore – it just makes you a dumb whore.

              • You fucked her husband in her bed? You’re a sociopath. Yes, you have no shame AND you’re bat shit crazy.

          • It seems to me there is NOT honor among thieves. You turned sour on MM when you discovered he was cheating on *you*. (Surprise, surprise). And lying to *you*. Now you’re all jaded about cheaters?

            And what did the wife ever do to you that you have such disdain for her? Stay married to her husband?

            If you disdain her because she stays with a cheater (assuming she knows that, I doubt it) — HellOOoooo — YOU stay with cheaters. Apparently you exclusively date cheaters.

            • Bottom line…. I do not have any respect for the
              title of” Mrs.”when the “Mr.” has none for it.
              What did we talk about ? Sports, golf, business, our children , grand children, cooking ,politics, common distain for Ann Coulter, Rush, etc… no .. never spoke of unicorns, rainbows, sparkles, i.e. marriage to each other. Sorry, I know that must disappoint you.
              I do not care , share your opinions. Vent against me , you mean nothing to me, and apparently you didn’t to your”sufficient other” either.
              You all are just words on a screen. I do hope purging has helped your self-righteousness .Oh Kara, your husband got a laugh ? The one who was cheating on you ? Well consider the source , I do for all of you !
              Have a GREAT “day! in your own, angry, bitter hateful way.

              • Yeah, it’s no surprise to anyone reading here that you have no respect for marriage.

                And we’re not here to “vent against” you. You thread jacked this post and insinuated yourself. You sure like to stir up shit for someone who is so against drama.

                My earlier comment, which you misunderstood, was you are exemplifying the bat shit crazy ethos I’m telling chumps to avoid. You’re a good example of a bad example. Which is why I haven’t thrown you off yet. Thanks for demonstrating my point.

              • “…. you mean nothing to me, and apparently you didn’t to your”sufficient other” either…”

                If that was true, you (AP) wouldn’t be pissed and he (they) wouldn’t have consciously chosen to stay in the marriage until they get kicked out, and even then desperate efforts are made to come back…

                Just my 2 cents

              • evil other woman;

                First, if you want to write a book you need some remedial English writing lessons, you don’t appear to be able to put together a coherent paragraph.

                Second, it’s obvious you did talk about your fuck buddy’s wife a lot. In fact, you appear to know everything about her – at least everything her husband told you. Of course a great deal of what he told you would be lies, cheaters lie both to their spouse and to their AP. But I guess you figured that out.

                Third, even if you are trolling and making this shit up? You have given us all a laugh.

              • No sweetie, I have been separated from my cheater ex for over four and a half years. That guy has been long gone and far away. XD

                The husband that laughed his ass off at you is a man I married three weeks ago.

                The faithful husband that makes my ex, and you, look like pond scum.

                Nice try, but you ARE a laugh riot.

              • You don’t have to tell us that you have no respect for the Mrs. That’s pretty obvious. We’re not stupid. It’s pretty evident you are every time you keep coming back here.

                “What did we talk about ? Sports, golf, business, our children , grand children, cooking ,politics, common distain for Ann Coulter, Rush, ”

                Oh, yes, that sounds like very important and dire subjects of conversation. Did you talk about Tiger Woods and his cheating ass too? XD

                “I do not care , share your opinions. Vent against me , you mean nothing to me, ”

                I think I do. And I think I’ve pushed a few buttons on your whiney board. Too. You do realize I am totally fucking with you for my own amusement at this point right? I mean, I was waiting to see what you’d said when I woke up this morning. You have definitely kick-started my day with a smile.

                “and apparently you didn’t to your”sufficient other” either.”

                Aaaaand I’m actually LOLing again! It’s spelled “s–i-g-n-f-i-c-a-n-t.” I’m well aware my ex boyfriend didn’t give a shit about me. If he did I wouldn’t be here. Don’t really need you spelling that out for me. But since you’ve tried, I have to ask, is that really the best you can come up with? You have a very tight grasp on the obvious.

                “Oh Kara, your husband got a laugh ? The one who was cheating on you ? Well consider the source , I do for all of you !”

                Like I said in another comment, but am going to say again just so I can picture your little face turning into a tomato.

                No, sorry, but the man who cheated on me has been out of my life for nearly 5 years now. He looooooong gone. He’s been gone and doing pretty much nothing with himself for a while.

                My current husband? Just married him. I’ve been with him for 4 years. So not only am I not bothering with my cheating ex anymore, I have a husband that makes your MM look like a leftover bit of turd that just won’t flush. (I’m sure you deal with that a lot.)

                “Have a GREAT “day! in your own, angry, bitter hateful way.”

                Says that woman who got involved with someone else’s husband and then spews lava when she got cheated on by the same man. XD

              • Did you ever in your life feel something called “empathy”? Is there an inner voice inside you that ever told you that you were wrong? Did you ever feel “happy”? Do you know there is a feeling of “love”, not sex or whatever…just pure love, where you might just enjoy bliss of togetherness with a stray dog or a small child or a plant even inanimate objects? I mean, am I making any sense evil OW?

                Look up for narcissist personality disorder…probably you can never be cured. All of us here will survive. Someday, we all will regain our loving self; a self that was so invested in our marriages, kids, spouses, relatives and friends that it didn’t realize when it just melted with their identities. I understand this is Foreign to you…poor n sick you…you can’t feel it!

                You will never experience what this life has to offer in addition to sex and entitlement…things like happiness…pure bliss….

                Are you human?

              • I will leave you with the comedian Paul Mooney’s take on this – “A wet pu**y and a dry purse don’t match.”

                Just to enlighten you, many betrayed wives work as well, out-earning some of those H’s that are fucking you. You’re a whore because you’re screwing around with someone else’s husband – that’s what whores do. Whether you accept payment for it or not is always at your discretion. Most whores will tell you that not accepting payment makes you a dumb whore – it might even be in the Whore’s Rule Book and Code of Conduct.

              • Please reply on the question on ’empathy’. Do you know what empathy is?

                I am not going to attack you. But the point made that you were completely fine with cheating and lying until it was YOU the one being lied to and betrayed (he sided with his WIFE. What a mind fuck that must have been!) – and the lesson still isn’t filtering.

                If it hurts and insults and offends you, EOW (and yes, absolutely it is hurtful and insulting), then …

                can your mind join the dots? At all? In any way? How much MORE for someone who is MARRIED?

      • Affair person posts on this website because she doesn’t like drama…Since you claim to be better than the wife, how do you not understand that one can only get keys and residency from the owner of said home? You started the text because you were upset he lied to you…so don’t pretend you did not to care.

        • Reminds me of my first wife. She had an affair with a mrried man and felt no guilt. She got pissed when she found out he was cheating on her, too.
          Lack of empathy is the critical factor here and the NPD dx fits, IMO.

    • Married men never “affair up.” They fuck women who fuck married guys. Like you.

    • I agree, it would make no sense to contact someone with this slant on life and such a lack of integrity.
      This evil woman person lacks morals and lacks a conscience. You cannot get through to someone with these deficiencies and are best adised to avoid them, lest you kill brain cells due to contact.

  • I contacted the OW’s husband to find out what he knew about the 4+ year affair. Unfortunately, he didn’t know anything, so I blew up his world. But he deserved to know (too bad for him he decided to stay with her! poor guy).

    But then unfortunately, I decided to contact the OW too. (She no doubt fed off of the “I won your man” mentality, especially since her man still wants her! Such a sick narcissist as well.) Still, though, I have to chuckle over my couple of crazy texts telling her that she deserved the Mom of the Year award, and even better, that she was welcome to his fat assed, high blood pressured, snoring CPAP sexy ass. The only good thing about OW is that she confirmed the affair (Don to this day denies it happened! redamndiculous). She wanted her kids and life back! Good luck with that.

    The cheating really had NOTHING to do with OW. She could’ve been anyone. And I wasted my negative energy blasting her. Not worth it.

  • This is such an interesting post. Thank you CL. I have never and would not contact my STBX’s AP’s. The current one in particular, who has been after my STBX for years, would absolutely relish that. She is as invested in me “suffering” as my STBX. They are two sick individuals. Since I believe she is almost as narcissistic as he is, I would not want her to think that I felt she mattered enough to me that I would bother talking to her. She gets no kibbles, except from him.

    In fact, my STBX had lied to me from the beginning about who the AP was because he was worried that I would bring a lawsuit against her for alienation of affection and perhaps be awarded some of the money to which he feels he is entitled. When I found out who the AP actually was, I was disgusted. That was what caused the “Pick Me Dance” of death to cease. Years ago when I met her and she pretended that she wanted to “be friends” (as a cover to be able to see my STBX, even though she had married her second husband, but was unhappy with him), I never thought much of her as a person and felt she was not of good character (interesting – or frightening – that she became a minister). When I became aware that she was the AP, I informed him that knowing that she was the AP had FINALLY caused me to lose what little respect for him I had left (and it wasn’t much).

    So, no, I don’t recommend contacting the AP. I actually think it bothers them more to be ignored and treated as if they are no better than some shit you forgot to scrape from your shoe. No kibbles, no chance to have their “specialness” verified by you. Contacting the AP is an ugly cousin of the “Pick Me” Dance, except in rare cases like Rebecca’s.

    One of my favorite movies is “The Horse Whisperer.” It was the first time I understood (since it is not my natural personality to be still and quiet) what an important mechanism stillness, patience and understanding your adversary can be in controlling an outcome. Your wandering spouse is already filling the AP’s head with illusions of grandeur. Why add to it by making them feel they are important to you, too? I say fuck ’em and the horses they rode in on.

    • The only contact I have ever had with my XW’s affair partner was a one time encounter where I thanked him for taking her off my hands.

  • Sadly I knew the OW pre-affair (she was secretly fucking one of X’s friends so until that fell apart had no interest in my X) because she is 11 years older than me and X, she was helping me out with X’s selfish, ignorant behavior. I knew from day one she was a nut, took her advice selectivly. Then her affair w his friend blew up and her attention turned to X. This was not his first rodeo, so I let them have each other pretty quickly.

    So I don’t need to talk to her. Most everyone knows she has some undiagnosed personality disorder. What kind of woman mentors a younger woman and then goes after her boyfriend? Someone very messed up. (She knew there were two children involved as well, my and X’s son and his daughter. I miss her so much.)

    Not that this is all on her, it takes two. I am slowly getting to “meh”. That Tuesday is just around the corner.

    • What kind of woman mentors a younger woman and then goes after her boyfriend?

      What Kind of woman does that? I think her name is “Camilla, Douchess of something or other”, what ever grandiose title was bestowed on her by the queen. what a world.

  • I just google her mugshot everyday from different computers and IP addresses. It’s now the first thing that pops up when searching her name. So, if and when she decides to ever get a job, (which I doubt highly) it might give the next person HR is considering a step up for the opening.

    The least I can do.

  • F.Y.I.
    A nice companion to CL is “Cheating cannot be tolerated” on facebook. I just found this and it has alot of inspirational messages and articles.
    Some pinned by Tracy a.k.a. Chump Lady .

  • This may be my favorite thing you have ever written:

    “You know what says ‘you are beneath contempt’? Filing for divorce. Letting the cheater have the AP. Walking away from this shit lets you maintain your dignity and self respect.”

    Gawwwwwwwwwwwwwd, I love that! Without saying a single word to that whore, filing for divorce and kicking xH’s sorry ass to the curb was a giant double-barrel middle fingers to the both of them. I’m sure she was thrilled that she won. Oh, I did the “pick me” dance for xH for weeks and months before I finally cut off all contact. My biggest regret was saying anything at all to him. If I had it to do over, I’d just be all, “Very well then.” And I would have cut out all the crap about me having sex with him, making dinner for him (I FUCKING MADE DINNER FOR HIM!), texting him about how hurt I was and how shitty she is, etc. I just would have gone about my merry way, asked him to move out earlier, gotten the attorney even earlier (though I did both within weeks) and never said one more thing to that pathetic coward.

    And still, one regret I will never have, is saying one word to the smug twat who lured him away from his family.

    If it wasn’t for my kids’ pain, though? I’d thank her. With a little wink for added effect.

    • Agree completely, Stephanie. If I could do it over, none of those sad, sorry texts and emails to STBXH about our broken life or how could he do this to us, blah blah blah. And I know I will look at this as a gift from OW in the future, except, like you said, for my kids’ pain.

  • I asked my cake eating, still living at home cheating husband to organise a meeting with his OW. We met outside a coffee shop in the mall. I rehersed exactly what I would do. She arrived with him & I looked her right in the eye but said nothing. I counted to ten in my head, then turned to my cheater and said flippantly, “well I hope it’s worth it”. Then I walked off & went home. Apparently she was livid LOL! Later I sent her an email to say thanks for being a morally bankrupt, pathetic excuse for a woman because without her I would have continued to think my husband was a decent human being. I also wished her good luck with never knowing if he was going where he said he was going and gave her a helpful list of all the places he’d lied to me about when he was actually meeting up with her that she should be vigilant about for when his new “friend” came along. The best revenge on the other woman definitely to give her your cheating husband.

  • I confronted the first two APs. The first one I called immediately after my ex confessed. She was terrified that I would tell her H (married 6 months). I didn’t. She did because she was sure I was going to call him. He threw her out and filed for divorce. The second one I confronted several times in a decent way. Looking back, they were pathetic moves. I would not advise anyone to confront the AP. It’s a complete waste of time and energy. The third one? I didn’t even bother to confront my ex. After I found out, I waited a month to tell him I knew (got the divorce going) and all I did was send an email to tell him that I knew, please move out immediately and that the divorce papers were on it’s way. No discussion. Nothing. No pick me dance. No kibbles. I simply disappeared into thin air with 50% of the assets.

  • I think the impulse to confront the AP(s) varies according to situation, but it is surely a very natural and common one, particularly in that initial state of shock or the subsequent state of grief. I also agree that it is complete futility, or worse (recipe for so much more disaster.) I really sympathize with the desire in other newly chumped people. I never did contact my STBX’s APs (except in sort of therapeutic letters I wrote for my own sanity) but it was a struggle. I’m glad I had good advice on that point, at least. I felt very called to pointing out where my cheating husband had lied to these women, as well as me. I wanted them to be angry with him. (His MO was cultivating sympathy.)

    I hope you’ll consider putting this post under “Chumps Decoded” because it is a very important Cheating & Chumps 101 type subject.

    • Clarification: ….I mean therapeutic letters I never sent, lol! I just wrote them for my own, private self and wellbeing.

  • I sent OW a scathing email at her work (a university), calling her every name in the book. The next day, the university police knocked on my door, threatening to arrest me for harassment.

    So…she can boink my husband, get him to write her dissertation, suck her way to a PhD – and if I complain, *I* end up with a police record? Wow!

    It was more than my little old chump brain could handle. If she broke into my home and stole my television, I could have her arrested for theft. But break into my marriage and steal my husband? I have no recourse.

    When I told my sister about it, she said, “The first thing she did was call the police?! Any other twenty-something would have died of embarrassment. That she didn’t means this isn’t her first rodeo OR her first angry wife.”

    All true.

    DON’T confront AP. Go with your first instinct: throw their sh*t on the lawn, change the locks, and file for divorce. Nothing says, “You blew it!” like shoving them out of the family.

    From CL: “Pointing and laughing? That’s totally permitted. Go right ahead.”

    OW’s sister got married a few months ago. She and OW are close, but XH wasn’t invited. Apparently, he didn’t even know about it. OW flew into town (from the other coast), went to the wedding, stayed for several days…and never even told XH she was here. Hilarious! I’m pointing and laughing right now…

    • You know, that’s an interesting observation from your sister. It makes me think about what distinguishes ordinary OW from the super flaming nuts like your OW, or Leathers, or the one who wrote the letter to her “boyfriend’s wife.” The difference is experience and level of disorder. It’s not their first rodeo. They have perfected their rationalizations. They acted this way before and know the drill. The best defense is a good offense.

      I imagine with some OW, especially a college kid — you confront and you would get some shame and cluelessness. Some, OMG what was I thinking? They would feel busted. Perhaps not contrite, but at the very least, wiser thinking this sort of hook up is not worth it. Too messy.

      But to savor the drama? To ramp it up? To get in a chump’s face and try and humiliate them further? That’s the realm of the disordered, IMO. The freaky freaks.

      • “That’s the realm of the disordered, IMO. The freaky freaks.” – Chump Lady

        CL, seriously, would you just stop describing my STBX’s ministerial OW?! You might make me laugh – a lot – out loud.

      • yup. That was my story too (see way above.) She went after me, toot sweet. Called the police (who, to their credit, were clearly embarrassed to be calling me from the midwest…); then a restraining order..against me! (excuse me, who fucked whose husband?)

        Clearly, she knew what she was doing, and why. Only later did I discover the paper trail that verified that in fact, she had done it many times before.

        So yeah, back away from the AP. They’re toxic. Kind of obvious, after the fact….if they weren’t toxic, they wouldn’t be AP’s now would they?

      • It wasn’t OW’s first affair – mine was at least the FOURTH marriage she had a hand in destroying, at the grand old age of 28. Total entitled narcissist.

        I think EVERYONE should envision Glen Close in “Fatal Attraction” before they decide to meet or contact AP. Because that’s what they turn into once they’re confronted: raging lunatics.

      • Yes, that letter form the affair partner to the wife was shocking (well. at least it would have been befroe I really started to understand these types). Very similar to that Marla Gibs woman you had the run ins with on Huffington.
        I wonder what forces have to come together to create hese monsters: bad childhood, bad genes, abuse or what?
        Look at this poor “evil other woman ” creature, trumpeting her superiority because she has an “MBA” etc. Who the fuck cares if you have an MBA? Dr Mengele had an MD.

  • In my case OW was clueless that she got involved with a married man, so I contacted her just to ask if she knew that he was married with kids, etc. This caused some turbulence for several days on both sides. I guess she was threatening with suicide and beloved hubby was like a beast trapped in a cage because he understood any wrong comment or step towards me would result in him getting kicked out, which to this day he claims he never wanted or intended to happen. I did attempt to kick him out several times and he always would come back begging a few hours later. In retrospect, taking him back was the absolute hugest mistake I ever made.

    Several months later, they are still communicating (Keep in mind their affair happened on foreign land, so since that time they have been remote). She keeps sobbing and crying and getting drunk almost every day. He continues to play the role of a good friend who is there to help and advise. I don’t bother to talk to either of them. I know it’s useless.

    I realize I have shut down emotionally from him. Sad in a way, but has also given me the needed push to re-focus on reclaiming my life back (youngest kid left for college last summer).

    So, contacting the AP, even if they are chumps like us (and are clueless about the existence of a wife and family), not only does not help, but may prolong the affair.

    • Absolutely can prolong the affair, the drama is all kibbles to the cheater, and often to the AP too. So after a rough couple of weeks, I saved ALL the drama for my friends, my password-protected computer files, and once I’d found CL, these posts. Much better place for them. We do need to say all this stuff, just not to THEM.

  • I confronted AP. She worked with XH. Previously, I’d suspected something was going, on but XH had convinced me she was ‘crazy’ and ‘obsessed’ and he was ‘just a friend’ (yeh, I know). In doing so he’d shared bits of her personal history – issues which would be painful to acknowledge for anyone, etc. I’d become convinced something was going on when I accompanied him to a work party 8 months pregnant and she was obviously very pissed off. Whether it was because I was there or because she may have found out I was pregnant I never knew. I suspect one of us wasn’t expected to be at this particular event.

    Anyway, so after I confirmed (not by his admittance) that an affair was occurring. I contacted her and basically told her I knew about their affair for some time, that she was not the only AP (true and I provided details), and I proceeded to share personal information that he had relayed to me to support she was ‘needy’ and ‘crazy’ etc. And I finished calmly telling her I wasn’t going to fight for him and if she wanted him, she could have him – it would be her own misfortune. I thanked her politiely for her time and I told her I believed she was a better person than her conduct reflected, and she should treat herself with more dignity. And I left.

    I don’t know if their affair ended then – I think it may have. The only other contact I had with her was a year or so later, another XH work event where she brought a date, and I made great effort to talk her date about his career, sit next to him at the table, chit-chat , etc…didn’t say anything to him about AP but clearly and purposefully, I made her uncomfortable the whole evening.

    Was it worth it. Sure – I felt I said my peace in a dignified way to her that maybe shot the ‘my wife is crazy’ argument to pieces. Maybe not. I’ll never know. Confronting her was something I needed to do, my way for myself. I didn’t do it to change anything but to just behave better than they, and to have a moment of voice.

    I heard she eventually moved out of state and is quite successful in her career. I saw her linked onto someone’s FB page a couple years ago (quite a few years after her affair with XH) (and of course I HAD to look); she apparently had a child (not my XH’s) without marrying or staying with its father – and I fantasized about just writing this little post on her FB page, asking if she remembered me? and asking whose husband fathered her child?…. in real life I would never, ever, ever be so hurtful or do it – especially considering the involvement of a child – but boy did I feel good just knowing I could have. It is a lovely revenge fantasy.

  • I confronted the husband of the AP. I sent him an brief email (found him on a website and sent him a private message) asking or telling him that his wife with sleeping with a married co worker (my husband) and that they were not using protection. He wrote me back a very lenghtly letter – very well written I might add. He stated that he and his wife were trying to reconcile and apologized to me for the pain that she caused. I wrote back thanking him for his time, that I have no respect for my STBX or his wife and that my intent for the letter was not a malicious one – I just wanted him to be aware which he was. He has since contacted me several times which I find very odd. He contacted me at Christmas time to wish me and my family (I was looking for unicorns) a Merry Christmas and then another time about a year ago to tell me that they bought a boat and he believes it is helping them be more together. I did respond telling him that their lives are none of my business and good luck. So who knows…..
    Last I heard she was with several other cops in the sheriff’s department. What a team player!! LOL

  • And my fave song lately. I am not a big country person, but they seem to be playing it on the radio every time I sit in the car….

    “Two Black Cadillacs”
    Carrie Underwood

    Two black Cadillacs driving in a slow parade
    Headlights shining bright in the middle of the day
    One is for his wife,
    The other for the woman who loved him at night
    Two black Cadillacs meeting for the first time

    And the preacher said he was a good man
    And his brother said he was a good friend
    But the women in the two black veils didn’t bother to cry
    Bye, Bye Bye, Bye
    Yeah they took turns laying a rose down
    Threw a handful of dirt into the deep ground
    He’s not the only one who had a secret to hide
    Bye bye, bye bye, bye Bye

    Two months ago his wife called the number on his phone
    Turns out he’d been lying to both of them for oh so long
    They decided then he’d never get away with doing this to them
    Two black Cadillacs waiting for the right time, right time


    It was the first and the last time they saw each other face to face
    They shared a crimson smile and just walked away
    And left the secret at the grave


  • Thank you all for sharing your stories. This was the best post and so so true. One of the stupidest things i did was confront the OW but i stupidly did it over text message. She has all my heartfelt feelings laid out in text and was able to ridicule them to my XH. I read the messages she sent to him laughing at me when i was being the marriage police.

    I also learnt from her that i had so many problems in my relationship. This was news to me but obviously she knew more about my relationship then i did – right?

    One thing i struggle with and maybe some one could help with an answer? I was out with people who knew her recently and usually i avoid all conversation about her but this started on an interesting note. They said we should get together because we have being screwed over by my XH in common. Excuse me? She was screwed over by my XH. Really? Am i stupid to think that when you sleep with some one who is married you dont get to be screwed over and play the victim? You are not the victim! The wife and kids are. I was also dumb founded by the fact that my 11 year relationship that had produced a child was thought to be on a par with her few month affair? And how exactly was she screwed over? He went back to me and i stupidly took him back until i wised up and kicked him to the curb. How can people believe she is the victim in all this? Or even in the same boat as me. Totally dumb founded by this.

  • That woman who wrote that crazy letter is too stupid to know that she was used as cake. She believed that he was wanting to protect her from hurt. No. It was that she was too complicated to deal with and his wife had something on her.

    Both women would be better off telling that asshole to stick his wiener in a light socket.

  • Someone please respond because I am really struggling with this one. My kids are going to have to meet this piece of trash and spend time with her. I’m willing to bet that he moves in with her either before or as soon as we are divorced and that he may even marry her as soon as we are divorced. I am a good mom and would never let my kids be with someone I haven’t met. I already know that their father and this woman have no values or morals. My kids are having a really difficult time with the separation. I really feel like I have to have a conversation with her for my kids’ sake.

  • I obesssively stalked the OW online to see who she was. I couldn’t stop myself from doing it, my pain and grief were so powerful. I fantasized about punching her in the face, and punching him in the face in front of all his co-workers. Instead, I was proud if my restraint. I waited until my cheating husband was safely back in my arms, then anonymously sent the OW a package of gorilla poop from It made me feel good for a little while, but years later, looking back, I wouldn’t do it again. After 3 years of wreckonciliation I now understand that my own personal 175 pound bag of human poop was never worth dancing for. Their affair ended, but not because of anything I did or didn’t do. And he went on to cheat even more spectacularly than before. I am divorced from his disordered ass now, he and the OW are friendly, and I have to coparent with a disordered fool. Jokes on me. But live and learn. Today I am Grateful to be free and 100x better off. You cannot win this game. Don’t play. Cut your losses, bow out, and gain a life.

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