Some days I like to fire up the ol’ Universal Bullshit Translator I keep here at Chump Headquarters. So often the crap cheaters feed us can only be comprehended in a positive light if you filter it through layers of unicorn fibers and fairy dust. But if you want an honest translation, you need the services of a bullshit translator.
A chump recently wrote to say she sent her serial-cheating husband one of my articles. Oh Chump, this was a mistake — take a clue from Dr. Simon, “It’s not that they don’t see, it’s that they disagree.” When you sent the article, you were hoping to share insights with your cheater, which is a form of consensus building. (“You agree that you’re fucked up this way, right?”) The disordered don’t want insight, they want control. Quit interfering in their righteous pursuit of kibbles and cake! You’re not the boss of them!
The chump’s serial-cheating husband took exception to the notion that he might be a serial-cheating, narcissist wing nut below.
Dear Chump,
Thanks. If you share this perspective, then I think it’s important to remember that you’re directing your anger and outrage at someone who has a personality disorder over which they have no control. There’s no on/off switch that I could have flipped to get through the next 50-60 years. And I’ve done nothing with the explicit purpose of hurting you. I’m sure your thoughts are that I never should have started a relationship with you given my personality. But the reality is, at 25 years old, I didn’t know who I was or whether or not I could maintain a healthy relationship. However, I approached our relationship and my love for you from a very genuine place, and always wanted it to work. It was never a game to me and I’ve never gotten a “high” from being deceitful about anything — I hate it. The consequences are too great to be so flippant about something like that. My disappointment in the failure of our marriage is as great as yours. And I direct plenty of anger and disappointment at myself. I am actively working on this as you know. I want it to help.
I understand your anger. I don’t deserve your sympathy and I would never ask for it, but continuing to treat me like an abusive monster (or “predator”) is not really therapeutic or helpful to any of us in getting past this, and is likely detrimental to the kids. I now live in a world of punishment where all my friends and family now either judge me (even the ones who still talk to me or help me) or, more often, downright hate me. It’s an incredibly uncomfortable position to be in, deserved or otherwise. Right now I’m just focused on facing my shame and guilt so that I be there for my kids and attend all their activities, etc. I’m certainly no role model husband, but I’m trying to at least be a role model dad.
I am deeply and truly sorry for all of the pain I’ve caused our family. It’s a hell of a cross to bear. You mentioned the importance of the moral compass that Christian principles provide. I believe that first among them, the one Jesus stood for above all others, is forgiveness. I know we have a long road ahead, but I’m hoping that one day we can get there.
Let’s feed this through the Universal Bullshit Translator.
Uhoh. I think we have a paper jam. The UBT appears to have vomited and clogged its gears. That happens sometimes with the more challenging self-serving bullshit.
Yuck. Okay, all better. We can proceed.
Thanks.
Why the fuck are you sending me this? I want to read a self-help article like I want to stick a hot poker in my eye.
If you share this perspective, then I think it’s important to remember that you’re directing your anger and outrage at someone who has a personality disorder over which they have no control.
I’m a narcissist and I like me. I don’t care who I hurt to get the things I want. What matters here is ME. You can be mad about that, or you can accept it. I prefer you accept it and quit questioning my kibble methods.
The problem here is you. You have “anger and outrage” issues. Not me, I have a condition I can’t control! Unlike you, who cannot control your emotions.
There’s no on/off switch that I could have flipped to get through the next 50-60 years.
Why would I want to flip a switch to be a lesser being with a conscience? I LIKE being a narcissist. This is who I am! Accept me!
And I’ve done nothing with the explicit purpose of hurting you.
Fact is, I just don’t care if I hurt you. You’re really not the point. What matters here is ME. Sure, I knew what I was doing would hurt you, that’s why I kept it a secret. Because if you got hurt, you might start interfering and expecting shit from me. Like these lame ass apologies, which take time to craft and keep me from my whores and Hot Pockets.
I’m sure your thoughts are that I never should have started a relationship with you given my personality. But the reality is, at 25 years old, I didn’t know who I was or whether or not I could maintain a healthy relationship.
You’re thinking I made a mistake. But you are mistaken. The “mistake” was that I was 25 years old. Befuddled, lost, dizzy from clove cigarettes, bad haircuts, and REM concerts. I was just a child! Who expects healthy relationships from a child? Is it my fault that I remained a child for the next decade? No. No it is not.
However, I approached our relationship and my love for you from a very genuine place, and always wanted it to work.
You are genuinely of use to me. I always wanted it to work, because I define work as — I do whatever the fuck I want to and you accept it. Preferably in complete ignorance of what I’m up to.
It was never a game to me and I’ve never gotten a “high” from being deceitful about anything — I hate it.
I hate it so much I cheated throughout 11 years of marriage. My deceit weighed on me so much that I kept fucking women I wasn’t married to. Some of them even wanted me to buy them dinner! Look, I’m just a guy who wants anal sex with a stranger. Do I really have to buy a salmon caesar salad first? Let me tell you, there is no “high” in dining with women who want dessert but won’t ORDER dessert. “Oh, I’ll just have a bite of yours.” Yeah. That never happens. Bitch eats my entire creme brûlée.
Not just one creme brûlée either, eleven YEARS of this shit. Do you think they ever considered MY feelings? Like maybe I’d like to skip the whole we’re-on-a-date bullshit and get right down to fucking? No. Selfish bitches want their salads and MY dessert. And sit there like deaf mutes when the bill arrives.
Yeah. And you think it’s all fun and games.
The consequences are too great to be so flippant about something like that.
I am never flippant about consequences. Stop them at once.
My disappointment in the failure of our marriage is as great as yours.
You cannot possibly be as disappointed about cake ending as I am.
And I direct plenty of anger and disappointment at myself. I am actively working on this as you know. I want it to help.
LOL! As we both know, I direct all my anger and disappointment at you. And hey, I do work at that.
I understand your anger.
No I don’t. But if I say this, there’s some hope you might shut the fuck up.
I don’t deserve your sympathy and I would never ask for it,
No, I don’t ask for sympathy — I demand it. Deserve sympathy? Fuck that noise, I’m entitled to your sympathy.
but continuing to treat me like an abusive monster (or “predator”) is not really therapeutic or helpful to any of us in getting past this, and is likely detrimental to the kids.
The important thing is “getting past this.” I’m past it. Why not you? I think your failure to get past it is hurting the kids. Because not getting past things is what hurts kids. Fucking around on their mother for 11 years, however, is completely benign.
I now live in a world of punishment where all my friends and family now either judge me (even the ones who still talk to me or help me) or, more often, downright hate me.
Did I say I didn’t want sympathy? I want SYMPATHY. People JUDGE me and IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT! No one talks to me or helps me! And, let’s face it — who needs the help here. You and the kids? Or me? ME of course!
It’s an incredibly uncomfortable position to be in, deserved or otherwise.
You know how much I hate to be uncomfortable. Like when you bought me that wool sweater when you knew how much I hate scratchy sweaters. It’s like that. And I don’t deserve scratchy sweaters, you just suck at gifts.
Right now I’m just focused on facing my shame and guilt so that I be there for my kids and attend all their activities, etc. I’m certainly no role model husband, but I’m trying to at least be a role model dad.
Not everyone knows I’m a douchebag and chicks dig the appearance of an involved father. Might get lucky at a soccer game, you never know. Hey, I’m trying to see the silver lining here.
I am deeply and truly sorry for all of the pain I’ve caused our family. It’s a hell of a cross to bear.
I am Jesus bearing the cross alone. Jesus was crucified and died to absolve us of our sins. I’m just like Jesus. Suffering alone, being judged by these pharisees and stupid peasants, who didn’t get that he was the Son of God. And then they nailed him to a cross — only Jesus didn’t have to pay child support. I think I have it worse than Jesus really.
You mentioned the importance of the moral compass that Christian principles provide. I believe that first among them, the one Jesus stood for above all others, is forgiveness.
God, his old man, said “Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery” — but everyone knows Jesus trumps God. Jesus loves me! I love me. And I’m a better Christian than you are, because hey, I forgive me. You’re nothing like Jesus.
I know we have a long road ahead, but I’m hoping that one day we can get there.
Notice how I said “we” — we both created this mess. We’re both at fault. But I’m the bigger person. Don’t forget it.
Very much on point, as always.
Posting this video, I in no way wish to associate Paul Foster’s vocal genius with a serial-cheating wing nut. This post just gave me the excuse to post this most excellent version of “Must Jesus Bear the Cross All Alone.”
Skip reading my column. Just listen to this!
ETA, and I know that Sam Cooke of the Soul Stirrers was a cheater (died that way in a hotel). Just heading you off at the pass.
Ah CL, how I wished that I’d had you to decode all the emails my articulate ex-H sent me after I discovered he was cheating on me. Other than the Jesus bit, that letter was almost word for word what he would write to me. The authors are just so clever & tie us chumpy types up in their “self-spin”. I’m ashamed to admit that I’d feel sorry for my ex when he’d write stuff like that to me & I’d always think I was being too harsh, back off for a while & then he’d been in for the kill again like a viper.
I was feeling bad right now reading the letter that CL posted and it was not even addressed to me!
These people know exactly the right words to use against us chumps.
So was I. Stupid me was hoping he got it!…then I read the last sentence and my sympathy went away. Oh chumpy me!
“My disappointment in the failure of our marriage is as great as yours.” EQUALS “You cannot possibly be as disappointed about cake ending as I am.”
CL, you crack me up! Also loved the part about “only Jesus didn’t have to pay child support. I think I have it worse than Jesus really.” lol!!!
Look what happens when you delete words/letters:
My disappointment in ……….. our marriage is a- -r-at as -s.
He writes in subliminal messaging!
“It was never a game to me and I’ve never gotten a ‘high’ from being deceitful about anything — I hate it.”
Alternate decoding:
It was *always* a game to me and I’ve *always* gotten a “high” from being deceitful about everything–I *love* it.”
So true! Their statements are often projections of what they *have* been doing themselves. So just reverse what they write, then it’s accurate.
“It was *always* a game to me and I’ve *always* gotten a “high” from being deceitful about everything–I *love* it.”
Nomar …. you took the words right out of my ex husband’s mouth or backside, whichever you prefer!!!
More like… “It really isn’t a game. I take me very seriously. You, not so much, so back off and STFU…. but above all, look at the big picture and feel sorry for me because… I’m what really matters here”
Mine actually wrote, “It’s hard being the bad guy”. Poor sausage.
Yeah, because being cheated on and mind-raped is such a delightful picnic by the sea.
We need a meme with “It’s hard being the bad guy” printed under a picture of Darth Vader or Jeffrey Dahmer or Vladimir Putin.
OMG Nomar….I want one! Brillant!
“Yeah, because being cheated on and mind-raped is such a delightful picnic by the sea.”
THIS!
“mind-raped”……perfect description!
Mine wrote “I’m tired of feeling bad about this.”
Yeah, like he has to actually WORK at it.
Hysterical post CL- and you’re a pitch perfect translator.
“Like these lame ass apologies, which take time to craft and keep me from my whores and Hot Pockets.” <– THIS had me laughing out loud, sadly because of how very true it is.
One of the things I've learned most on this blog is how universal the crazy behavior and lexicon of the disordered really is. I see my X in almost every post and I used to think he was unique and quirky (before the whoring that is, when I began to realize he is in fact a very skillful monster when he wants to be).
Turns out they're all just the same- no uniqueness whatsoever, which would probably hurt their fragile egos to realize themselves. But is such a gift for chumps in seeing it's really not our fault.
I've wondered many times- why don't they teach this stuff in school so we can all be better prepared to avoid them from the get go.
YES!! I believed my stbx was special. He believes he is unique. Now i”m realizing he’s likely far more damaged than he claims I am.
Same here, Edie. It’s the ultimate spackle I think. For all those times I wondered, well that’s an interesting and unexpected thing to do/say… I should have been thinking- hmm, another red flag that you’re so *not normal*!l
A friend once told me to tape a note to my cell phone that says “he will never be normal- never” to overcome this lol
My issue currently (it’s only been 8 months ) is separating my love for him and the good thoughts of our past from the reality in front of me and the things I missed in the past.
It all feels like a lie now and it’s very sad. 26 years together total.
I admit, I didn’t even SEE the red flags. I was (am) naive and think the best of people.
It’s hard to drill “never be normal” thoughts into your head.
Yea 8 months out us still very fresh and raw. I’m 3 yrs out and it took at least 2 of those to accept the reality and the last 1 to become more ok and healed from it.
It is hard to drill into your mind- but I learned in therapy to keep a timeline of all the indiscretions, deceits, etc (then and even now) to break out when I start to spackle. It helps bc you can’t avoid it then.
We’re not divorced yet. Likely sometime this summer.
We have a 12 year old daughter so there’s no avoiding him.
I minimize it as much as I can b/c I realized I do better when I don’t hear from him/see him. I regress.
Yup, seeing a therapist. In the first few months I was just a giant puddle. Didn’t know up from down and was SURE this would define me but I’m determined not to have that be the case. It’s not easy but I’m trying.
Did you want a fee for your counsel? Didn’t mean to hijack…:)
Aww- well your sense of humor is still in tact, so I’d say you’re doing ok under the brutal circumstances.
What I wish for anyone who goes through this hell on earth is to persevere and thrive- don’t let his bad behavior get the best of you. You don’t think it’s possible when you’re in it, but it really is
Edie, PLEASE,PLEASE don’t buy into it when he tells you you’re messed up!! You said he claims you’re damaged (never mind that him fucking you over probably caused it!), but it’s important for you to ignore his assessment of your mental health! It’s great you’re in therapy, and I know that us Chumps just get better and better as time away from the cheater increases. So, try to use this as a jumping off point for something new- loving on yourself.
I tell myself when I wake up every day that I am love, I am important and capable and safe! New-Agey, I know, but over time your mind will make those new connections. Take care of yourself Edie!
Edie, at 12 your daughter can take a lot of the small responsibilities for dealing w/her dad, and you can keep your contacts SHORT SHORT (no, don’t invite him in when he comes to pick her up, make sure she’s ready a few minutes early, don’t be ‘nice’, just polite). Keep EVERYTHING else to e-mail, and if he tries in the e-mails to suck you in to discussions or make you feel bad, get a friend to screen the e-mails and delete anything that you don’t need to know. Anything big goes through the lawyers.
Because this guy WILL try to suck you in to talking w/him, and then make you feel bad. It’s all kibbles to him!!
Karen
Up until recently it was ME trying to suck him back in.
Yeah, I’ve been doing the “pick me” dance for a while now.
He is super la dee dah, fly by the seat of his pants. Doesn’t plan a damn thing. I have to coordinated w/ him constantly and organize things.
I’ve only recently decided to leave him be about stuff – not remind him. He doesn’t get wife perks of reminders anymore – and let him flounder on his own. If he disappoints daughter, then that’s on him.
Thing is…he’s a SUPER dad. Really.
I keep everything to email and text. I have seen him walking, the back of his head and in passing but I have not talked to him in person in months – aside from court last week.
I don’t want to. It hurts too much.
Even email and texts make me crazy mad. I’m not sure how healthy it is but I do a lot better pretending he doesn’t exist.
Maybe that’s best for right now.
I really don’t believe he will try to suck me back in, have regret, miss me or want me back.
*sigh*
I’m not there yet but I’m getting better.
I should start a thread in the forum…I have sentimentality issues.
I also had over 20 years with my ex. It took WAY longer than eight months to even begin to heal. I’d say a good two years before I didn’t think about him constantly, and three years to really start getting “over it.” It’s now been more than four years since dday, more than two years since divorce was final. These days, that marriage almost seems like a dream, or something I read about that happened to someone else. The memories are faded and the emotions are very distant. The wound has healed into a scar, one that occasionally itches or stings, but the raw agony is way behind me.
You’ll get there, Edie. Just hang on, and keep reading here. I wish I had found this blog years ago.
Thanks. I’m actually better than I have been in a long time.
I know I still have a lot of hurdles to get over – damn it… we’re still going to be married on our anniversary next month! And I thought Christmas was bad.
I’m no where near better but I’m grateful for some insights I gained early on and more just this pat week.
LOL sparkles. Yeah, they do suck us in with the glittery goodness 🙂
Edie, the same thing happened to me on our 32nd anniversary. We were still married but going through the divorce. I asked my girlfriends to have an “uncelebration party” and we drank wine and ate decadent chocolate desserts and wore black. Don’t wait for the day to upset you, take control and make it a happy memory for yourself!
I was also still married on our anniversary, and also had two girlfriends over. Dinner, wine and cupcakes…it turned out being not to bad.
We were in the process of divorce and living separately on what would have been our 22nd anniversary. The night before, I got a text from him asking if I wanted to go to breakfast on anniversary morning. I was still high on the hopium pipe back then, and still had these fantasies of him coming to his senses, realizing how much he was losing, and wanting to work everything out. I really DID want to see him for breakfast, but thank God, resisted the urge and said no thanks.
Woke up next morning to a lengthy email from him. He told me he was taking off his wedding ring (not really sure why he was still wearing it at this point, other than he planned on doing this all along), changing his Facebook status to “single” and would be posting pictures of himself with other women. I realized that he invited me to breakfast KNOWING I would be hoping for reconciliation, but instead, he had wanted to tell me these things to my face for the ultimate hurt. There was absolutely no reason to do this on our anniversary (our divorce did not become final until four months later) except that he wanted to really hurt me.
That was when I really started to realize how evil he is. I blocked him on Facebook, and told him to never contact me again if it wasn’t an emergency regarding our son. Got a reply about how awful I was and why was I being so out of control.
Of course, this is the same guy who texted me, “I should have added LOL to the end of my marriage vows,” a year or so ago, so clearly he harbors a lot of rage against me still and likes to hurt me whenever he can. If we were still married, this year would be 25th anniversary. I thank God I am out of there.
Glad –
May will be 24 years.
It’s so surreal to me b/c last year was good.
He’s no longer on FB but he posted a pic of us from that day and wrote something sweet & funny.
Out of character for him to do anything like that.
I don’t imagine I’ll get any kind of contact next month on that day.
I know part of me would want to see him if he suggested it and if he does contact me I’ll gets sucked into the sadness of it all.
Everything I want to write I feel I have to examine. It’s so funny…why do I think he’s a “good” guy?
The fact of the matter is we had 26 years together, I grew up w/ him (met when I was 18) we share a LOT of history, connections. It’s over 1/2 my life that now feels like a lie.
We had GOOD times. Yes, he cheated – more than once. Shame on me! – but in between that crap there was genuine (??) effort put in and love.
See, I feel so foolish saying anything nice/positive!
I asked him recently if he was seeing someone. He said no. “This may sound strange but I still consider myself married”
Huh.
DO you now?
So you didn’t consider yourself married the times you cheated?
You didn’t consider yourself married the times I specifically asked you to keep your “friends” out of our marriage and you didn’t listen?
If you considered yourself married, why did you take your ring off?
If you really considered yourself married you’d be working on your MARRIAGE – you big dope!
I’m so sorry that so many people here have been hurt so badly.
I had NO idea there seemed to be a play book that’s being passed around.
For what it’s worth, my anniversary was new years eve. 18 fucked up nye’s where our friends never invited us because it was our special day, and he never wanted to do anything cos it was too hard. The last anniversary I went to bed erly and cried listening to everyone celebrating round me outside. He was on his computer. Now NYE is fun filled and celebratory. We have been away for both and enjoyed the fireworks. It is just NYE now. My new anniverasry is june 9, Freedom day. This year will be my first. Last year I gave myself a Tattoo which will last longer than a wedding ring. I bought my kids a present and took thm out for dinner. Its what you make it. Just change your perspective.
For me, it’s been a year now since everything started, and I’m basically going on a 3-year plan…I’ll be 40 in a couple years and I am basically demanding of myself to be past this. If it happens sooner, that would be great, I hope it does. Also, hoping to hone my own UBT skills too.
Glad, that reminds me of leaving a “last valentine” for my husband when we first separated. I wrote in the card how I forgave him and reminded him we met on Valentine’s day when we were 16. What I got in response was an email with a list of how he proposed to split our assets. I thought that exchange pretty much said it all about our relationship.
After our separation, for quite some time I had, “Don’t Respond He’s Manipulating You” as my name for ex on my cell phone. For the past couple years, it’s been “Fucking Liar Sociopath,” but I very rarely have any texts from him these days, thank God.
I changed my ex’s name to “Teacher” in my phone. He taught me a lot about what I don’t want in my life!
The contact name in my cell for stbx is grapefruit – along with a picture of a grapefruit!
Hi all,
Great post. The picture on my mobile phone for the stupid exh is DIRT. Yes a very simple boring picture of dirt.
As that is what the stupid piece of crap is…
Hey, that’s insulting to grapefruit! Grapefruit is good and would never lie to you! You know up front that it’s sour and bitter (and some of us like it that way)!
Glad, that’s awesome! 🙂 Right now my ringtone for X is Darth Vader’s theme. Hearing it less and less these days, which is a blessing.
Same here, Edie and MKISD! When I first started reading the articles, I thought CL was writing about my ex! Everything she said was spot-on! Cheaters really must have a handbook or something 😉
Even in this post. My ex was obsessed with cheese and his “ghetto hot pockets” which were basically tortillas he microwaved with cheese. 30-year old with the diet of a college student… smh
My friend’s husband told me to post a note above my phone, so I could not fail to look at it every time I talked to him:
“What does he WANT?”
My ex believes he is unique for sure, but I actually think he’s right. Oh, he’s exactly like all the rest in his disorder, but his form of sparkles is definitely all his own.
Yeah, they’re unique in a way that makes being normal, even average, look REALLY REALLY good!
Touché Edie. I now know that my ex husband is way more damaged than he claims I am.
Oh Patty I don’t. I DID. Even months ago when he first left.
I fully admit to my own dysfunction. I fully admit that I had a hand some of the things that made our marriage rocky but not to the level he claims and I didn’t make it WORSE. He did.
You are SO right. It’s dawning on me now that there was a perfectly good reason why I acted the way I did. His behavior caused me to act poorly. He failed to see that cause & effect. I think I did, too.
I’m oddly better. Thanks 🙂
It’s a rare marriage that doesn’t have issues, and those issues come from both sides (unless we’re talking spousal abuse or similar). Sensible, committed people try to deal with issues and if they become insurmountable hopefully the couple can part on reasonably good terms.
When someone chooses to cheat (and particularly if they’re a serial cheater, such as my ex) then they’re not committed to the relationship in any way and are operating from a position of ‘But what about meeeee???’. My ex saw my difficulties in adjusting to yet another change in our lives (after quite a few over the preceding few years) as him not getting enough attention. It never occurred to him that this is where he might want to put some attention on me and see how he could support me, as I had always done for him.
When you are dealing with selfish people you will get selfishness, and that you cannot control and have no part of.
This.
Every successful couple says that they’ve learned how to argue productively. They’re honest with each other. They practice a radical honesty with each other in which they let the other know, but without judgment or rancor, what’s bothering them. If you can’t let your spouse know that it bothers you when they squeeze the toothpaste from the middle instead of the ends, then you’re going to have a hard time talking to your spouse about sex, money, etc.
People committed to the marriage can wake up, smell the coffee, and try to get the communication going, sometimes by going to therapy.
Cheaters don’t communicate they’re unhappy. They just go ahead and cheat. Then, when you confront them, they blame you for lack of communication.
See? There’s blame on both sides, but it’s still all your fault!
Thanks for the anniversary suggestions. I may have to put a little something together 🙂
OMG, when I read “keep me from my whores and hot pockets” I was drinking water and almost spit it up. Nothing goes together better than that! LOL.
I so wish I didn’t through the letter out that my ex weirdo assclown sent to me 3 months after I left him which appropriately arrived in my mailbox Last April Fool’s Day in 2013. It had me laughing out loud because it was completely insane and of course sent 3 months into his new loving relationship with himself and his new prop to take pictures with, who he met three weeks after our loving relationship ended.
It was a classic and it would have been perfect for this post because it was so obviously insane and full of bullshit it actually read like a comedy. I remember reading it out loud and saying out loud, “what kind of nut job could even think this stuff up?”. It was then I realized how sick of a person I was with after I laughed at the utter ridiculousness of it.
The best part was that it was typed on his computer and he typed his name under where he put his signature, like you do in a business letter or on a contract. That was the icing on the cake for me.
Shit, I really regret throwing it now after reading this post CL. It would have been a classic on your site for sure.
Thanks for making me laugh today! : )
‘The best part was that it was typed on his computer and he typed his name under where he put his signature, like you do in a business letter or on a contract. That was the icing on the cake for me.’ This is SOOOO weird.
My ex recently has been starting his e-mails to me w/ ‘Hi Karen’ and ending w/his intials.
Uh, I know who I am, I know you know who I am, and I know any e-mail you’ve sent to that account is for me. I also know who you are. We never called each other by our actual names (just petnames) when we had a relationship unless we were really pissed off, so what the fuck is this??? Some kind of ‘I’m so polite and formal, look how amazing I am’ kind of BS?
On the opposite note, when he mentions me to the kids he still calls me by the petname he used to use for me. Creeps them out big time.
Notice how I said “we” — we both created this mess. We’re both at fault. But I’m the bigger person. Don’t forget it.”
If I had a dollar for everytime I heard we were “both at fault”! This must be right out of the BullShitters Handbook.
My ex would say “you are 50% responsible for this”…um, no.
I got that too. Yeah, his 50% was fucking hundreds of strange men in gay bath houses, having multiple affairs with married women, threesomes, orgies, constant lying and manipulating and financially devastating us. My 50% was I never went with him to his 5 AM exercise class, and I didn’t like to play board games as much as he did.
Glad,
I know it’s been said before but your X just sounds like the champion of all things disordered asshole.
Mine is pretty damn bad, but I really am astounded at what you’ve endured and you should be proud that you have persevered from what that the dipshit did to you with all that insanity
Glad, how you have survived what you have been through is staggering. You were married to an absolute nut case. You deserved a good life then and now. I hope you are living well and are happy.
My problems are nothing compared to yours.
Glad, the board games excuse is one of the kookiest things I’ve ever heard. Seriously.
By ‘board games’ was he imagining a nude version of Twister?
Laughing out loud…..
*snort* (re: 50%)
Translation: I will pretend to take 50% of the responsibility of this, just while we’re clear that really, you’re 100% responsible, ok?
I love bullshit translating!
It’s basically “You drove me to it”, right?
Hey, you own 50% of this mess = you made me do it.
Yes, but if I *pretend* that I own 50% of the responsibility, you get to own the whole kit and kaboodle. Great deal. All sales final.
THIS! I was told the reason he opened an eharmony account was because I told him he would be lucky to find someone else who would put up w his bullshit. So he “had to prove to himself that he could be loved” *sniff*. See? All my fault.
Of course it was! Basically, any words out of your mouth translate as “go and fuck yourself and someone else with my blessing…”. You just didn’t know it at the time.
Mine used to say ‘But what about what you did?’. Erm … huh? I didn’t fuck around no matter what was going on in the marriage, that’s for sure. I was less than perfect but in general I’d say I was a pretty good wife and we got on quite well most of the time. I had no part in the destruction he caused. Hell, the man admitted to cheating during a period that was so great that I was shocked upon finding out he’d had an affair even then. No fixing that kind of wandering dick.
WOW!!
I have been brainwashed by this very stuff for years. It’s only now that I’ve been forced into divorce – by him – that I’m starting to look at things differently.
The well written, thought out and seemingly endearing letter from the husband could have EASILY been from my stbx.
Mine wasn’t that eloquent. He could never have written a letter like that. He just kept repeating “I understand” in a monotone voice whenever me or the my son would try to express our grief and anger. It was clear he didn’t understand.
That’s horrible Lyn. He really has no heart, not even for his son.
Mine would say, “Don’t feel that way.”
Um, ok. Idiot.
Mine says “it’s not like that!” With a wounded look on his face. Well, actually it is like that because I’m just stating facts of things you’ve done. Dumbass.
Wow! They are all alike! Seriously, Is there a class they take to come up with this stuff? My STBX always uses phrases like, “We got to this point, together!- “Things like affairs don’t happen in healthy marriages”- “We were already having trouble” – and “I felt so lonely”!!!!
It is gross! I agree but am ashamed to say that I would sometime buy into this bullshit and feel bad for him!!!! What the hell!
I also heard (from a MC no less) the line about healthy marriages/affairs. What bullshit. Kind of like you don’t get cancer if you’re healthy. It’s the cancer that makes you unhealthy, just like it’s the affair that makes your marriage unheathy! You husband is parroting the line of lazy therapists everywhere.
He is so unhealthy that he only went to a therapist when I made him go to marraige counseling!!! My therapist says healthy people seek help- unhealthy people blame. She also refers to him as a child in a man’s body and a brain in a wheelchair!! lol
Oh, I love that! “healthy people seek help — unhealthy people blame.” Wow. That’s great.
Unhealthy seeks blame…..yup I guess that’s why he felt I blamed he for everything wrong in the marriage….wth?
Like!!!! My ex would never even consider any type of therapy. Apparently we were already “drifting” apart before the 10th emotional/physical affair came along .
Ashley, they’re saying they felt blamed for everything is just a manipulative cop-out. You say ‘I’m not happy about X, can we talk about a possible solution’, and they say ‘yeah, everything I do is wrong, I’m always to blame for everything, you think I’m a horrible person’. END OF ANY ACTUAL CONVERSATION OR ATTEMPT TO RESOLVE THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM.
These narcs have all sorts of ways of shutting down real communication, and that’s one of them!
There’s also ‘well what about when YOU did this other thing completely irrelevant to this conversation?’ and ‘how can you do this to me? I’m so stressed right now and you’re so mean and look at how you’re speaking to me, you’re yelling, I won’t be yelled at, you sound angry, I can’t talk to someone who is always so angry ….’ All just ways to shut down real communication.
Plus of course the projection. About 6 months after DDay#2 and my kicking my narc ex’s ass out, he came back to try to reconcile. Here’s how the conversation started;
Him: I want to talk about what would have to happen for us to consider getting back together.
Me: (Pause to think) I don’t think you would do what would be necessary for us to consider that.
Him: You think this is all my fault!
Me: (thinking WTF?) Is that what I said?
The fact is, he WAS 100% responsible for the situation we were in, the end of our relationship, and the end of our children’s intact family. And he KNEW that, but had to project that onto me, so he could ‘defend’ against it.
Pathetic asshole idiots. Who all read from the same handbook.
‘their saying’, not ‘they’re saying’. How confusing. MUST EDIT!
KarenE, that used to confuse me about my ex. When I wanted to express something to him about something that bothered me, I tried really hard to express it calmly and kindly. You know, waiting until the anger had calmed down and trying to think about it logically and figure out what exactly I was actually upset about. Trying to use non-attacking language (I feel…), etc. But my ex would often jump to extreme reactions that didn’t were feel proportional to how I felt like I was communicating…comments like “It’s always my fault! I can never do anything right!” And it always really upset me because I worked hard with how I communicated any frustration I had (and we rarely fought in the first place, and he acknowledged during our marriage that I was a very patient person)… I never got it. But….your comment made me think it was an attempt to escape actual engagement that involves vulnerability…? Huh.
Northern, a way to escape actual engagement, yes. About the vulnerability, I’m not so sure. I used to see it that way, as a defense against some terrible shame and pain. Now I see the entitlement! It’s not ‘I can’t tolerate any criticism because I’m so wounded’ – if that were the case, a gentle attempt at communicating about a problem within the context of a loving relationship should have made it easier, should have made it possible.
This is about ‘how dare you ask me to take you into consideration in any way at any time? I will not tolerate that, I will twist things and make them terribly aversive, until you give up communicating about this, and if I do it often enough, you’ll stop bugging me pretty much entirely and just accommodate to my wishes and preferences.’
They didn’t listen or try to resolve problems, not because they felt too vulnerable, but because they did not GIVE A SHIT about us.
Oh, and while I’m ranting like this, I’ll just add that they MAKE it sound like they’re avoiding this kind of conversation because of vulnerability, because they figure out over time that that’s what works on us sensitive, empathic chumps! They say ‘look how bad you’re making me feel!’, in many and varied ways, because they know that halts us in our tracks! And that’s all that matters to them, it works to get us off their backs
Hmm, KarenE, that makes sense. Though I will clarify that I did not mean vulnerability in the sense of weakness or woundedness. I meant it in the sense of actually opening oneself emotionally to another person…connecting in a meaningful way. I think he avoids actual deep connection in relationships. So I think we are kinda saying the same thing. He didn’t want to bother to actually connect emotionally….probably because he felt entitled and that it was not worth his time or effort. So I think you are right, the goal was to probably get me to stop “bugging” him with all this stuff that wasn’t important to him…he had better things to do…
Wow – I can hear my STBX saying some of those exact words. What should have been a huge red flag, is that he also used those words to talk about his first marriage. Especially the part about:
“I’m sure your thoughts are that I never should have started a relationship with you given my personality. But the reality is, at 25 years old, I didn’t know who I was or whether or not I could maintain a healthy relationship.”
I know who he is now (a serial-cheating, narcissist alcoholic) and I know that he cannot maintain a healthy relationship. So for my health, I will remain NC and move on.
Translation: I should never have started a relationship with you. I should have found me a chump that I could hold onto for much much longer, as now I have to start all over to find me more cake eating situations.
But the reality is, no matter how old I am, I’m never going to be deep enough to know who I am, because I’m too distracted kibble hunting and navel gazing (wow, I’ve never seen such an awesome belly button!)
This song was great for me when I was in the anger phase (Look it Up): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1kT4u_D5PA&ob=av2e
The forgiveness crap in the letter reminded me of the lyrics:
The word’s forgiveness, look it up
It’s what Jesus has in store for you
But I don’t no matter what
Quit your beggin’ and your prayin’
Can’t you hear what I’ve been sayin’?
I said go, goodbye, get lost, get out, get gone
The word is over
Look it up
Asshole
Yes! This one’s good, too…pretty much sums up the way my ex inadvertently killed my love for him. Lucky for me, actually, since I won’t be going back for another round of mindfuckery.
OMG, Duck that was fucking awesome, it’s on my playlist and my best friend is going to like it. THANKS
Dude has a case of the Beakers-“Me Me me!”
Totally perfect analogy Mehphista!
Wow. That letter. That was written by my ex husband, practically word for word. That just amazes me. Do they have some online source for wording for these things? Seriously.
Oh Tracy – PLEASE do a translation on the Christmas card I received the first Christmas we separated!!! It remains – to this day – the only attempt at “apology” he has ever made:
The card – a reindeer standing in a winter’s snow (I always liked deer – and it had sparkles on it – so he must have spent at least $3.50!) The sentiment was generic “Merry Christmas” – gone was the “To my loving wife/my love, my life” kind of intros.
The handwritten message: “For what it’s worth, I’m sorry. Find peace and be happy. All the good memories will linger on….”
After 3 years – it still pisses me off almost more than anything else he’s done to try and save himself and screw me and my children over. I haven’t laughed as much recently as I did reading your BST above. I would love to apply a permanent laugh to this odious card. Please – if you have time – you can even email me if you want so we don’t take up blog post space! 🙂 And if anyone else on here wants to do a translation – feel free!
Oh no…I want to see this translation!
I’ve heard the “find peace” “do well in life” “you’re not a bad person” “I hope you’re happy” “our memories are still there and they’re special” crap.
If there was any sense in their words we wouldn’t be in this mess! 🙂
TRUTH!
I want to see CL’s translation! Here’s my take, in the meantime:
“For what it’s worth, I’m sorry.” EQUALS My apology isn’t worth much, because I’m only sorry I got caught. Darn it. But I’m going to give a half-ass apology anyhow, just in case it works on you. So….is it working? How about now?
“Find peace and be happy.” EQUALS Even though I totally fucked you over, I really just want you to be happy. Cause I’m such a great guy. I was just trying to be happy by fucking other women, and it worked pretty well, so I’m the expert at being happy. So I’ll dole out some happy vibes to you, too.
“All the good memories will linger on….” EQUALS All the good memories of eating CAKE will linger on. I loved it when I could fuck whomever I wanted and enjoy the benefits of marriage at the same time. Lots of good memories over here. Plus, it’s easy to remember all the good times because I’m not really that upset about the breakup. I’m hungry. Want a Hot Pocket?
DuckLinerUpper – you may have a future in the BS translation business yourself!
I have often interpreted that “find peace and be happy” line as “I’m hoping I might still get some sort of residual cake out of you…..but also so you will stay off my ass and just let me LIVE LIVE LIVE my fabulous cakeified lifestyle with the OW!
Still want Tracy’s incredible translation, though – seriously – her ability to cut through shit with just the right turn of snarky phrase is a balm to the soul!
Lovely translation. 🙂
YES! Just leave me alone and stop questioning me. I actually heard that yesterday – you’re still questioning me.
Love it Duck!
For what it’s worth, here’s a sparkly piece of cardboard folded in half. There’s a reindeer on it. Which made me think of you. Or Christmas. Or venison. I like venison sausage.
Be happy when you think of me. Happy like the reindeer who become venison sausages. That’s how we were, in the good times.
Love it!
lol – There needs to be a cartoon for this. Ha!
OOOOOHHHH – YESSSSS!!! I’ll tell you what, Tracy – if you follow up on rumblekitty’s idea and create a cartoon for this – I will PRINT IT AND MAIL IT TO HIM THIS CHRISTMAS! CLASSIC!
Oh my goodness, CL, I am laughing so hard…….
I just dropped my frickin phone when I read this translation. I’m still laughing. Venison sausage indeed!!!
My translation of the card, and all such letters is essentially this:
“Look at meeee! I am a good guy. I am the bigger person, reaching out. No hard feelings. I’m cool. Look at me. Look at me being so cool. Obviously I’m cooler than you. Why are you so uptight?”
Yeah, I think there is definitely something to a “See, I am a good person!” intent in many of these messages…
Mine also told me “we would always have our memories.” Only thing is the memories hurt now. Asshole.
For what it’s worth, I’m sorry.
–If this lame apology gets me ego kibbles, it was worthwhile. If I don’t get kibbles, well then, it’s worth is nil.
Find peace and be happy.
–Don’t bug me by looking all pissed off at ME for the end of the marriage. You’re the one who had to snoop, and get all monogamous on me. Get over it, so that we can all look good to others about how well we’ve “moved on” and can still be “friends” (maybe even with benefits down the road if I’m between appointments? Hmmmm?)
All the good memories will linger on…
–Oh, yeah, like all those times I was hornier than Rudolph’s antlers which are on this card, and I found all kinds of fun dickwarmers on dating sites–while you sat at home watching the kids for me–man, those WERE good times…
Mine told me that he would always “have some good memories of our marriage,” but that now the marriage was “just a business deal that is over.”
Mine said,”No matter what, you’ll always be the love of my life.” Stupid shit cheaters say… Mostly, I avoided him, but on that particuar occasion, I said, “Yeah, cause all people cheat on the love of their life.” Lyn, I also got the “I understand”, which I translated into, “I don’t give a shit about what you’re saying. I’m just looking for a way to get you to shut up.”
“Find peace and be happy” means “It is your problem you are still pissed off at me. Just get over it already. Enough is enough”
“For what it’s worth, I’m sorry” means I am not sorry. At all.
“Find peace and be happy” means I am doing whatever I want. And I don’t care what you are doing. At all.
“All the good memories will linger on” means I did whatever (and whomever) I wanted to while we were married. It made me feel great to be in control bc nothing says I am the boss like fucking other people. It also says that you (the faithful spouse) cannot have any good memories. Getting chumped annihilates any possible good memories. And yes those shitty memories us chumps have will “linger on” just like an emotional case of herpes.
Yup – because you know – after 3 months separation and him living 2 miles up the road from me with the gym-whore, I really was way past the expiration date of feelings and should have totally moved on by then. Enough is enough – that sounds just like him. His classic three word retort to me in during the divorce was “Get OVER it!”
And you know what? I did get over…..him. And so did my children, and so did his brother and his wife, and his cousins on the farm, and many mutual friends. We’ve all gotten OVER old Cake-eater.
“For what it’s worth, I’m sorry. Find peace and be happy. All the good memories will linger on….”
OK, I’m being magnanimous here. I SAID I was sorry and I am giving my benediction to be at peace and be happy (YOU are/were ALWAYS SO ANGRY.) All those great memories of me will make you realize what a prize you lost. We now have closure. Case closed.
‘Find peace and be happy’ means he hopes you quickly get over this so he doesn’t look like such a bad guy. Plus, he can act like he’s magnanimous by ‘wishing you all the best in the future’. My ex tried to pull this crap. It’s not worth the time it took him to read it. Burn the card whilst cackling like a loon and slurping a good burgundy.
“Burn the card whilst cackling like a loon and slurping a good burgundy.”
Omg, I have gotten SO many good laughs from CL and my fellow chumps, Nord, but this may be the best yet, I am laughing so hard I am crying!
Chump lady
Your post is brilliant!!! You deserve a standing ovation!!!
My ex-wife was stunned when I served her divorce papers.
Her response was “I’ll be a better woman with or without you….that’s how sorry I am.”
Translation….
How dare you dump me…I’ve always felt superior to you and will continue to be my superior self. It’s your loss if you divorce me, because I’m superior than most people who wouldn’t even say sorry. I told you I was sorry, but don’t appreciate it and it shows why you are not as superior as me. You’ll regret dumping me, who in the future will be an even more awesome person than the awesome person I was before you caught me cheating.
That’s how sorry she is?
Snort.
Yeah…that’s how sorry she is.
So sorry…. that the first thing she did to become a better person with or without me, was to get breast implants and exercise some more and stopped cheating with losers with no money because eventually her alimony was going to expire in five years and so she got herself an old fat Texan doctor who eats meat and potatoes and she calls him “my love”.
Yep…she’s proved she’s a better person without me.
Just…..BWAAAAAHHAAAAHAAAAAAA! I know alot of women like that, and they don’t consider me “friend worthy” because I don’t want to play their “reindeer games”…
I am laughing me head off at “that’s how sorry I am…” LOL
This sounds so much like my ex. “Thanks. If you share this perspective”… “I really appreciate you taking time to help me evaluate myself. If you agree with what you sent to me, let me tell you why you’re wrong and why you should feel sorry for me and doubt yourself and your completely validated actions towards me.”
This twisted, just-enough-fake-humility-to-make-you-wonder BS is exactly how my ex always talks to me. And the same old “we need to be friends for the good of our son”, aka “let me do whatever I want and tell everyone what a good dad I am”. No, you need to not be an asshole for the good of our son.
Same here! Pimping the kids so we will assist in impression management. Wonder if they were thinking what was best for our children when boinking the affair partner.
“I really appreciate you taking time to help me evaluate myself.”
It’s like one of those cards left at restaurants. Please help us evaluate our service.
I hope you gave him a zero and no tip.
“…only Jesus didn’t have to pay child support. I think I have it worse than Jesus really.”
LOL! I needed this laugh this morning! I love you, Chump Lady. You always brighten my days!
The most truthful words my ex ever spoke were as he was walking out the door on dday. He said, “I love myself just the way I am. I would never want to change.” I think he pretty much spoke for all disordered cheaters there.
So TRUE. My ex just didn’t “get” how he could have possibly hurt me, or the children, or our family, or our finances. Flash on to opening scene in The Emperor’s New Groove (llama in rain).
Nope, mine didn’t get it and still doesn’t. He just doesn’t understand the devastation he brought into our lives – or he doesn’t want to. Who knows, who cares.
So true Glad! Got the “love myself just the way I am.. I would never want to change.” too. No room for improvement. Hallmark of a sociopath. Most people see themselves as a work in progress- I could be more patient, give more to charity, stop procrastinating, etc…, not so the disordered. Eat my shit sandwich, disguised as a petit four.
WOW. That mirrors IC who finally got fed up with me not getting it:
‘He is a narcissist. He is never going to change. He will not change for you, and he will not change for his children. He has no intentions of changing. He does not want to change’.
Shame on me for hanging in there and trying to ‘get’ him to change. That is on me.
Just reinforces what I already knew. Narcissists are incapable of self-examination or transformation. Brings to mind one of my favorite John Lennon quotes, “One thing you can’t hide is when you’re crippled inside.” Instead of doing the hard work to change, narcissists use their narcissism as an excuse. Even worse, they want you to cater the pity party the are throwing for themselves. During my ride on the crazy train, my husband tried to explain away some truly horrendous behavior by saying, “Yeah well, I’m an asshole.” As if that justified all the bad behavior! His AP was worse, if such thing is possible. She “wasn’t perfect just forgiven.” I guess for me it is important to act in such a way that one does not need to seek forgiveness, not use one’s faith as some kind of ‘ get out of jail free’ card. But again, these folks are masters at trying to evoke sympathy for themselves, especially when they begin to experience the consequences of their conduct. You can’t change them, so don’t even waste your time. Just get the hell away from them and thank your lucky stars you don’t have to deal with their bullshit anymore! My life dramatically (or should I say peacefully) improved when I quit trying to make my ex understand how much he had hurt me and why it mattered. He truly was incapable of insight or self-reflection and trying to make him understand turned me into a very angry person. (One of the many things that motivated me to kick his ass out was when one of my kids pointed out how his conduct was changing me for the worse). A good way to not be angry? NC.
” I guess for me it is important to act in such a way that one does not need to seek forgiveness, not use one’s faith as some kind of ‘ get out of jail free’ card.”
Excellent insight, Louise. I think you really nailed the difference between decent people and self-serving narcissists. It’s the difference between using a belief system as a guidebook/map or using it as a crowbar to dislodge you from whatever mess you drove yourself into. I think my STBX thought guidebooks were for suckers.
Thanks for giving me something to think about. 🙂
Louise, you brought up a key point: you will improve much more quickly when you quit trying to make them understand how much pain they caused. They don’t care and don’t want to know and it’s an exercise in frustration.
Best thing I did was to stop that kind of thing. It still took a long time to recover but I now that in doing that it speeded up the process. It also annoys the crap out of him that I will not bite, no matter what he throws at me. And as my life improves, due to me putting all my energy on me instead of on him, his is floundering. Without me being there to get him through everything he is making one mistake after another. CAn’t say it doesn’t make me snicker at times.
Nord wrote: “They don’t care and don’t want to know and it’s an exercise in frustration.”
This is VERY hard for me to understand. It goes against my human ‘nature’. I keep wanting him to wise-up – after this many years, how could he possibly not care about the pain he’s caused me?? It just makes me drown in a puddle to know it is probably true but truly, I do think he was a good person for 33 yrs, just not the past 2. Tell me to go face-palm please.
SheChump, when you are ready to look, you will see the selfishness that stretched way way back, the secretiveness, the not thinking they have to be accountable to you.
In many small ways, probably from the beginning. My IC picked it up before me: ‘can you see, that his affair is the final unacceptably hurtful part of A PATTERN?’
‘can you see, that his affair is the final unacceptably hurtful part of A PATTERN?’
Patsy, THIS is what finally set me free. Opening my eyes (and it was a gradual process over many years) to THIS. The 2nd affair wasn’t so much the cause of our separation as just the last straw.
Nord, I came to the same conclusion you did, that he would never understand the depth of pain he caused and didn’t care. Once I accepted that and stopped trying to get through to him I was able to start moving on. I truly think there’s an empathy chip missing in his brain, as well as a communication chip. He’s incapable of introspection.
Mine is plenty introspective but I have just recently started wondering who he is. I told him I don’t recognize him at all.
Empathy chip – I was JUST saying the very same thing the other day to a friend.
Like you, I can not fathom why he (they all) don’t understand the devastation this brings – depth of pain.
I wonder how they’d like it if THEY were cheated on???
Just in the last few days I’ve started to clear the clouds of gloom and begin moving on. I still have a lot of hurdles and a long way to go before Meh ;).
Until now I was being forced by him to change and move on. I did it reluctantly and begrudgingly. Kept asking “why me?” “why?”
I could keep asking that day in and day out w/o answers.
I guess I’ve started to accept it and start to do some things on my terms.
Louise, you said: “Instead of doing the hard work to change, narcissists use their narcissism as an excuse. Even worse, they want you to cater the pity party they are throwing for themselves.”
That’s perfect. I really appreciate the way you guys phrase things!
Yep, how many times did I hear how hard it is to live with “an addiction” (to sex, but not with me). And how I was “never supportive of him” and was not trying to “understand his addiction.” Seriously…**I** was the bad guy for not untangling the skein.
“Yeah, well I’m an asshole.”
That’s manipulation designed to get you to reply, “Oh, no, you’re not an asshole! You just made some poor choices.”
I totally fell for that, once upon a time.
This sort of passive-aggressive, holier-than-thou bullshit is designed to make the gears in your brain seize up with the cognitive dissonance while they make their getaway. It’s sadistic and is a perfect example of why you should go no contact as much as possible, as soon a possible.
Amen Chumpalicious!
Whores & hot pockets priceless !!! My cheater thinks I should have been over it, ” don’t you think it’s time to move on with life” man I want to throw her out a window when she says that shit !!! I only caught her once God only knows how many others I prob missed !
OH MY GOSH!
I am so sorry for everyone’s pain but 1) I’m happy to see everyone still has a sense of humor and 2) I am having THE best day right now reading all of this while I’m at work.
It’s been a long time since i’ve felt this light.
Thanks!!!
Brilliant. The clove cigarette line had me spitting out my coffee (which I would ordinarily resent 😉 )
Same here, but I actually did enjoy seeing REM back in the day : )
I have a worn out REM t-shirt that I still wear to bed. 🙂
The hypocrisy of cheaters teaching us about Jesus usually stops chumps in our tracks and trips the mind like an infidelity ko’an (“What is the sound of one cheater forgiving himself?”).
While forgiveness is an important expression of Christianity, I was taught that “first among” the principles espoused by JC is . . . Love. And the cheater who wrote this letter seems to have done a lousy job of loving his wife and family. Like, F-minus-minus lousy.
To be a bit cheeky, the New Testament talks about forgiveness at Matthew 18:21-22: “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
So, um, I guess I’ve got to forgive my cheating ex for her first 77 extra-marital hookups.
Done.
But in my case, that leaves several hundred hookups unaddressed. I’ll forgive those not because I’m bound to do so, but because she isn’t worth the effort of carrying anger for her like a millstone on my back.
And if you think hear the sound of one hand clapping, it’s just the sound the palm of my hand makes slapping against my forehead when I think about the arrogance of gas-lighting cheaters. D’oh!
Nomar,
I kid you not, during false reconciliation, my X and I went to church once (I was willing to try anything, chump that I am)…And THIS 77x forgiveness was the sermon. I was not amused, but X used it a few times in making his case to me that I should forgive again and again and again.
I’m spiritual but not religious in an organized sense, and that is just one of the reasons why- too much room for manipulation IMO
You didn’t know that we all get 77 exceptions to our wedding vows? I guess you and I–and everyone else at CL–were the only ones who didn’t get the memo. [snort] Uh, I don’t think that’s what ol’ Matt was getting at.
The amazing thing is that so many cheaters would dare to accuse their chumps of failing some moral obligation if we drew the line at 77. As if our capacity for forgiveness should be as boundless as their capacity for lunchtime parking lot blow jobs.
Even better than that- is their outrage and inability to forgive in reverse. 2+ yrs into my separation (while his whoring continued uninterrupted)… I met someone, genuine early stage friendship/relationship… as in *not* of the parking lot blowjob variety or in my X’s case, of the stripper/prostitute/college student type rendezvous either.
X decides he wants to try to work it out, finds out I met someone and goes batshit crazy- claiming how dare I do such a thing and threatening the person for trespassing on his “wife”- LOL. Then tells me, he now can’t work it out because he could never forgive me, even if it is hypocrital.
The mind fuckery and insanity just boggles the brain endlessly.
MKISD- my X acts exactly like that too!!
(He was a massive serial cheater for 35 yrs, in denial/lying mode).
Here’s what he told me, about six months after we’re divorced- if you want to sever all ties with me, just start dating someone else. He was completely serious! And, he refers to me as his wife still, and I’m sure is currently screwing the neighbor nut that was his last AP. She reminds me of that post someone made here about the last AP being the one who wouldn’t just ‘do the deed and then disappear’. Nope, she’s Sooo Special, she felt she was worth blowing up a family.
They’re all a bunch of Kooks…
Yeah, I’d say there as a lack of reciprocity there. . . .
Nomar: “As if our capacity for forgiveness should be as boundless as their capacity for lunchtime parking lot blow jobs.”
THIS.
You nailed it.
no pun intended.
Great post , Nomar!
Um, JC did include being able to leave our spouses in the case of adultery–wish cheaters would have that scripture spit back at them…
To me the whole forgiveness thing just means that you accept what has happened and understand that it is in the past; not happening now (unless you’re still with the fuckwit) and you can’t change it. You do this so you don’t drive yourself crazy thinking of revenge plots and you can become healthier.
It doesn’t and (shouldn’t) mean that you can’t levy consequences against a cheater and it doesn’t mean “just get over it”. I think it should be renamed “acceptance” because I don’t believe you ‘accept’ for their sake-you ‘accept’ for your own. I also don’t believe that accepting what’s happened means you’re not hurt and pissed over it. Being angry helps a lot of us get unstuck. Accepting that they suck helps us move on.
Disoredered wing nuts twist forgiveness/acceptance into something they’re entitled to and it doesn’t have anything to do with them.
excellent post, Cheatersucks – I totally needed to hear that!
“trips the mind like an infidelity ko’an (‘What is the sound of one cheater forgiving himself?’)”
Hilarious!!
I got an email sort of like this about 6 weeks after dday, and I remember feeling sort of sorry for him because he seemed so broken. Nope, he was just pissed off that I was holding him accountable and was still trying to sweet talk me into shutting the fuck up about it all so he could go have some fun without any hassles.
That didn’t work out so well for him, by the way, as my rage overcame any feelings of sympathy.
RAGE! Yes, that has been very good therapy for me and has certainly helped me move on to the real person I am, not the Exorcist gal my family started believing I became. Yup, hit rock-bottom when I heard that and I’ve been sailing a little higher ever since. But, rage – yes, it gets you over the sympathy, no shit.
I do recommend it!
And then, after they send you this crap, if you don’t properly acknowledge them and bestow forgiveness they get royally pissed. I have many strings of emails where my XH alternates between condescension and fury.
My ex told me “you must hate me but I don’t hate you.” That means, “You should stop being mad at me because my cheating was all your fault. I’m a better person because I’m not mad at you for causing me to cheat.”
Oddly, my ex hates me to this day. The hate started the day he realised I was not putting up with his crap one second longer, and I wasn’t going to lie about why the marriage blew up. I was all about honesty from that day forward and he’s never forgiven me for that.
“I now live in a world of punishment where all my friends and family now either judge me (even the ones who still talk to me or help me) or, more often, downright hate me.”
Wah.
By the way, please leave Jesus out of it. I’m pretty sure he hates that crap.
OMG Chump Lady, this article is like a jewel in your crown of Chumpdom. I LOVE IT!
I get pissed off too when they bring Jesus or forgiveness into it. They don’t get to demand forgiveness. They don’t GET what forgiveness is all about in a real relationship. Or that if the forgiveness is for the chump’s sake (which it can be as part of letting go), do they honestly think that we believe they give a shit about the chump’s emotional burdens when they CAUSED it? No, they’re still being manipulative, controlling assholes by telling the chump how s/he ought to feel.
And frankly, my unpopularly aggressive opinion is that God is likely more pissed off about His name taken in vain by these shitheads who think that their manipulative bullshit becomes palatable because they falsely claim God endorses it, instead of these lily-livered overly “sensitive” beings who cringe and wince and cluck their tongues when someone says “Goddammit!”.
It never ceases to amaze me how so-called religious cheaters can justify their conduct by hiding behind Jesus. If an act is wrong, don’t do it; quit thinking Jesus is going going to give you post-sin absolution!
It’s just convenient blameshitting, as far as I’m concerned.
Let’s see….I got, ‘please don’t focus on the OW so much. As I’ve Told you, I believe in many forms of love. I love a lot of people”.
Pass the puke-donation tray please.
I love the Universal Bullshit Translator! Can it translate this?
“Working almost 24/7 to pay for legal costs and you. You took all the money I earned.”
This was XH’s response after I asked him multiple times (with no response) about what we should plan for the kids during the summer (because we have joint-decision making). Btw, he doesn’t pay me any alimony, only child support.
“Working almost 24/7”
–Oh shit, now I have to do my OWN laundry! And my own dishes, vacuuming, cooking et al! I wouldn’t have to do all this shit if you only stayed to do it all for me. I barely have time to EAT CAKE! Don’t you GET how I’m starving???I hardly have time to EAT CAKE!
“to pay for legal costs and you. You took all the money I earned.”
–Now I have less money around to take out OW’s to get cake. I wouldn’t have had to pay for legal costs, my own fuckpad that I don’t get enough time to fuck in because I have to take care of it BY MYSELF, and child support, if you had only COOPERATED with cake-eating the way I told you to. Now I have less money and less time to EAT CAKE–don’t you GET that summer camps pale in comparison to the CAKE FAMINE I’m going through?
Thanks, Chump in the Sand, I laughed almost spitting out my salad as I read this.
C in the Sand – I also had to vomit a little in my mouth. Well said!
Tell him he is apparently not working hard enough if he is only working “almost 24/7.” Like you give a shit.
LIKE!
Christian here. Let’s clear up any confusion. God does NOT forgive ANYONE without repentance. Here is God’s formula – memorize it – there’s a quiz afterwards. Here is WHEN God forgives you – acknowledge, confess, repent, repair, restore, reconcile. The entire purpose of the Cross was God reconciling the world to himself. And it was not this pretty shiny thing hanging in your church on Easter with everyone is white shoes and ribbons in their hair. It was blood bath. That’s how much God hates YOUR actions. God says much about adultery. So, you are NOT forgiven until you ACRRRR – which means you acknowledge your sin, confess it to your wife, never do it again, make amends plus 20 percent (that’s biblical and not a financial term), restore your wife and your marriage, then reconcile your marriage and relationship in Christ. God is not your personal butler to wait on you, he’s not Santa Clause to give you what you want, he’s not your therapist to make you happy and feel good. And, He is not a delete button and a virus scan. Only through the formula above do you get a system restore!!! God says ADULTERERS have their place in hell – unless you REPENT. God doesn’t want us to forgive without this formula – compare scripture to scripture to get truth. I love these false Christians – yeah, pray it to Jesus and you’re good.
a backwoods rural church in the area I used to live in had a sign one day that said: “Confession with out repentance is just bragging” It’s the cheater’s way of getting things out in the open and trying to establish a impenetrable shield to the blowback.
Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.
Gilbert K. Chesterton
Great points Christine! My ex (who hated church) took to sending me and the kids bible verses the morning after he left. “Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight…” was the first he sent from Proverbs 3:5. I took this to mean that my ex didn’t understand why he had an affair and broke up our family, so it must have been God’s idea.
The funny thing is if he’d turned the page God would have told him “May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.” Proverbs 5:18
Along with the Bible verses, I got that God has a plan for each one of us and how I might be thanking him (STBXH) in 6 months for all of this, because this could be the best thing that ever happened to me!
You guys are GOOD! H also brought out a bunch of Bible passages and ‘remorse’ based on it. Told me I needed to forgive as he had forgiven me. (I’m like, wha? you’re forgiving ME for what??!!) I don’t know the bible as well as but, gad, did you Chumps ever clear my head on that tactic. Thanks.
fyi….liningupducks and DuckLinerUpper….that’s both me….the same person…..just depends on whether I’m logged in or not, or on my mobile phone.
These translations could go on forever…. I just received this e-mail from my STBX.
Sorry you are mad at me! I never meant to hurt you and I hope we can always stay really close friends. We were always good friends in the beginning. I think you are going to be way happier and I think our kids will like that. Have a great day!
Say What????
Emily, I heard almost the same thing, “I think we will be better parent’s to her if we’re not together” The justifications never cease to amaze me
That’s the kind of stuff that drove me nuts. The “have a nice day” like we were just acquaintances after 36 years. Totally bizarre! I wanted to yell “you watched babies come out of me and you want to act like we barely know each other?”
Exactly! All we’ve shared and you just flip a switch and it’s done – oh and now you want to be buddies.
I think Chump Lady could write about that switch. Because it is really spooky and something I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.
That you can just switch off your emotions like that.
Yep. The switch and suddenly he was signing emails in a completely different impersonal way. I said something and he said, “Well, that’s how I sign for everyone else.” I said, “I am not everyone else.” And he has respected it. But I realize that after dday I was just like anybody else to him. It’s really disturbing how fast they switch… Thankfully he is now becoming like some irrelevant to me. For the most part, I am not at meh yet. But…my marriage with him does feel more foggy and distant that it used to, like something that is off in the distance that I am driving away from….which is certainly a blessing.
Yeah Northern, I know what you mean. I kept thinking “how did I become nothing more than a floor rug to him after 36 years and raising 2 kids together?”
Yes. Our marriage was much shorter, but I still find it shocking that his emotion towards leaving me was like I was an old, boring cell phone he was upgrading.
I called myself and our children the garbage he kicked to the curb.
Yeah, my ex definitely treated me like the switch had flipped, and kicked me and the kids to the curb like garbage (still wanted to see the kids so he could get kibbles, but no actual care or investment of energy or consideration).
But NOW that HE’s unhappy (fantasy land didn’t last long, eh? the upgrade turned out to be a downgrade, what a surprise!), he says he ‘wants to have a personal relationship with me, because he cares so much about me, feels guilty for what he did, regrets it so much’.
Yeah, right.
Ooohhoo KarenE, what an asshole, yet sweet revenge. Love when I get to hear about one of these cheaters actually getting hit by the Karma bus!
Sorry you are mad at me! I never meant to hurt you and I hope we can always stay really close friends.
Notice that I am not sorry I did anything that might make you angry? That’s because I’m not sorry. I’m sorry you have a problem with my behavior and choices and are angry because that sucks for me when I have to deal with you. Get over it, will you?
PS. I want you to act like my best buddy whenever I deign to deal with you. I like that.
I always get “I’m sorry that you feel that way.” Yup, I bet he is. Then he tells the kids that he has apologized to me but I refuse to accept his “apology.”
Same with mine — “I’m sorry you feel that way.” Closest to an apology I ever got.
35 yrs here too, Lyn. I got, I’m sorry for your mind-set.
Have a great weekend!!
ok – thanks.
asshole
Lyn, I too was married a long time (38 years) and my ex also just flipped the off switch. It was the most bizarre thing I had ever seen. Not one ounce of feeling for me or my situation. In the first few months, I tried to express my hurt/anger, etc. but he was so caught up in OW and their new exciting life, that he was unable to acknowledge anything having to do with me. And so angry at our daughters for daring to express their hurt/anger at the trashing of our family, and his putting OW first. He actually said to our younger daughter ‘don’t make me choose (between you and OW)’.
I also heard ad nauseam ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’, and ‘I wish only the best for both of us’. Mindblowing. The hardest part for me, after a while, was having so much anger toward him, but being unable to express it to him b/c he was gone, completely. My poor therapist.
My situation was similar to yours, OlderWiser, except I was married 25 years. My ex, once caught, simply moved one of his back-up AP’s into first position. He had not one ounce of anything for me, hardly even any anger, just cold and calm, and he was just…..gone. He also chose his AP over our children, and frankly did not even try to work on his relationship with them, refused my repeated suggestions that he go to family counseling with the children, etc. The shock of what he did to us fades but I am beginning to believe I will go to my grave still just a bit stunned by what he did.
I could translate bullshit all day!
Sorry you are mad at me!
–because there’s nothing I could have done for me to regret and say sorry about…
I never meant to hurt you
–because you weren’t supposed to find out! You really screwed that part up, you know?
and I hope we can always stay really close friends.
–I hope you can keep up the story that I’m a really really great guy–because, well, it’s true, and I don’t need people injecting their reality in my fantasy about myself.
We were always good friends in the beginning.
–when you were a chump who supported my cake-eating habits..
I think you are going to be way happier
–because, really, you know you’ve been a bit of a downer these days…
and I think our kids will like that.
–yes, my inner children will be highly affirmed if you continue to pretend that I’m really a great guy.
Have a great day!
–Next time I see you, you better be nicer to me, because really, I’ve SAID I’m sorry, ok? What more do you want from me? Can’t we just move on about what a great guy I am already?
Here’s a great response for him that I saw on FB (and then posted to my timeline)
“Yeah! Sure! You just shat all over me and my entire life, so of course we should stay friends” said no one EVER!
I had so many awesome translations! Those were cracking me up! I am so happy that I found this site to “bitchslap” me into reality. It is so sick that I will occasionally buy into those things. I guess because it has been 18 years. Wonder how many of them he has been cheating? Who knows and who cares! I have filed so I am off to freedom! He is correct I will be happier. I already am!!! : ) Thanks ya’ll!!!!
Oh my god Emily, is murder legal where you are? And don’t forget to “have a great day!”
Fuckers…..
God Damn fuckers…
Yep….
I got the, we have been together for 30 years, how do you end something like that.
We will finally each have a chance to get to know who we really are!
WTF is that shit….
I shot back with….
I know who the fuck I am! How the hell did you not know who you were?
And then….he said,
I think we should take the time to talk to each other every day.
After the second day i realized what the hell he was trying to do.
Suck me back in, Love bomb me while also blame me.
Gaslight the hell out of me.
And who knows what else.
They have an answer and a solution for everything.
Of course it’s there solution.
Because they are right and ultimately you are wrong….
I am text only now, and only if it has to do with finances.
No small talk or friend talk allowed.
He is not my friend. And never will be again….
Don’t forget the idea that they still might have some use for us.
I got the “I don’t want to ever lose your friendship” line when we split but the cheater translation=”You still have value; there are still some things I might need you to do for me and that includes some sex I hope and definitely kibbles, please don’t forget those!”
“some sex I hope and definitely kibbles, please don’t forget those!” This from my ex, for sure, PLUS ‘and you’ll keep doing my taxes, right?’
Such idiots!
This is all giving me such a good laugh today!
Whoa, Emily. That takes spin doctoring to a whole new level. The exclamation marks are especially egregious.
Cheater ex has repeatedly told me he’s sorry and my response has always been the same, “I don’t believe you” because I don’t. He’ll give up eventually.
here’s a few gems I don’t even try to decode. 15 years (15!) after divorce I still will get them via text since I no longer take his calls:
> I’ve learned a lot about myself (is that before or after the next two marriages/divorces?)
> Why can’t you accept that I’ve changed? You’ve never given me credit for anything. You are a bitch.
> I’ve changed. Please forgive me. You have to control everything. You are still a bitch.
> You always thought you were better than me. I’ve changed – why can’t you understand that? It must be nice always being right! I’ve moved on – too bad you can’t (uh yeh been remarried going on 10 years – but guess that doesn’t count). I’ve learned a lot about myself. You are a bitch.
Marcie, it is endearing to be a called a bitch, right? Makes a woman’s heart glow with love. Bet you are looking forward to the day you can block his texts!
Marcie, My exH is also very abusive like that (over text). I usually don’t respond when he talks that way, or I say I’ll finish this convo when u can be respectful. but sometimes I have to engage if we’re coordinating about the kids’ immediate plans, etc. So then I usually just play it off with a “lol so dramatic” or whatever and continue to be civil and businesslike. Also I know that pisses him off, cause I’m essentially laughing at him. But am wondering, since you’ve been dealing with this for 10 years — ugh! — how u handle it???
Marcie,
He sounds like what you get when you cross a fucktard, an asshole and a dickwad all together and add a toad’s good looks.
would that be a fuckassdicktardtoadhole? ok, sounds about right.
LOL!!!!!
LIKE!
I threatened an order against him. He lives several states away so I don’t cross paths with him. When these interactions occur every couple years or so, I know his life is imploding again. Our kids are adults now so I don’t have to deal with him anymore.
Once in a while something creaks thru that I take to be a ‘feeler’ communication, “Happy Birthday” text or ” how are you doing?” email.
I ignore, don’t respond and haven’t heard back for the last year or so.
Thanks, Marcie. And yeah, my ex occasionally sends those “feeler” texts too. I think you’re right though. No response is the best response. Can’t wait till he’s completely out of my life…!
Funny….my STBXH never asked me for my forgiveness! I don’t think he wants or needs it quite honestly. He did give me his valuable opinion several months after separation, he told me to seek more therapy!
I know you will all join me in shock and awe at the craziness of my cheater when I tell you this little story. After five years of his cheating on me with OW and a total of 5 ddays, I finally asked him to leave and told him I would be seeking a divorce from him. We told the children together and he packed up his things. Well, only some stuff, he left ALOT of things behind. BUT……he left a pullover sweatshirt on the bed when he left. I was confused. I just put it back on a hanger and hung it back up in his closet. I figured he had accidentally left it behind. NO! NO he called me the next day to ask me to sew it for him! I was just shocked. I think my jaw hit the floor. I did not respond. I just couldn’t get over it. He wants me to actually sew a rip in his sweatshirt after I asked him for a divorce because he has been mentally abusing me with his OW for YEARS!!!!????? And….the story doesn’t end there folks. He asked me THREE more times about the sweatshirt until I finally told him there was NO WAY in hell I was sewing for him. He told me I just should have said so!!!!!!!!!!! No big deal!!!!
I tell you this because we all need to see that these losers don’t really give two fucks if we forgive them. It is not about you or me …..it is only about them! They want us to say we forgive so they can file this bad thing away and be done with it. My STBXH gave no thought to the fact that I was kicking him out. He was only concerned with the rip in his sweatshirt and since mommy was in Florida and OW lives five hours away ……who was going to sew for him!!!!! Seriously, you can’t make this shit up!!!!
Oh…….and he can’t wait for the day when I am past all of this and we can sit down together and share a glass of wine and be friends!!!!!
But it was a Very Important sweatshirt Kimmy. I think you fail to understand that.
Kimmy, that would be hysterical if it wasn’t so typical of how they think!
They are truly idiots! They totally believe their “truths” and it is ridiculous how we should just get over it and be friends. Unbelievable!!!
I can laugh about it now for what it’s worth but I was totally shocked and speechless at the time!!! What is really sad is that I now see my value to him. He wasn’t cheating on his wife of 22 years and the mother of his two beautiful young daughters…..I was just his mom/appointment keeper/cook/babysitter/launderer/house keeper/prostitute! He can find a replacement easily!!! What I didn’t know was he was already conducting interviews!!!
Fuck….I hope she sews or she is out the door as well!!!
Kimmy, I’ve mentioned this before on here, but after D-Day, my ex sent me a coupon for 60 cents off a gallon of gas at our local supermarket. You see, he couldn’t use it because he was traveling with the AP’s he had group sex with, and he didn’t want to waste it. But nothing beats Glad’s ex gifting her a half-eaten container of Cream of Wheat…..
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
What a prince.
LOL, Kelly, your ex sure is thoughtful! A whole sixty cents! These guys are so big-hearted, so generous! NOT!
After we separated, I got a text from my ex telling me that he was continuing to use the grocery “rewards” card under our old phone number so I would still get the credit. He wrote this was to “help me out.” You know, it would help me out a WHOLE lot more if he just paid the ordered child support like he’s supposed to.
Assholes….
I LOVE Willie Nelson, but I think the award for Best Sewing Job by a Chump belongs one of Wilile’s early wives. One night when he came home from a honky-tonk drunk and smelling of perfume and passed out in bed she sewed him up buck naked the sheets, beat his ass for a while with a baseball bat, piled all his clothes and the kids in the car and left.
I’m not advocating violence against cheaters. I’m just saying that was a great sewing job.
Ugh. Clueless. You should have sewed it with some green mint dental floss or just stapled it together. Done!
Lily Bart – you’re hilarious.
LOL! Those are hilarious ideas!
Sorry you are mad at me! EQUALS I did nothing wrong
I never meant to hurt you EQUALS I just assumed I could whore around, you’d never find out, and things would be just hunky-dory
and I hope we can always stay really close friends EQUALS So that I don’t feel guilty, since I shouldnt, since I really did nothing wrong
We were always good friends in the beginning EQUALS you used to be cool, but then you changed, which drove me to cheat.
I think you are going to be way happier and I think our kids will like that EQUALS you are a boring, unhappy, miserly person and even our kids don’t care for you. Ultimately me cheating was a GOOD thing b/c it will drive you to now become a fun, happy person. I will do anything I can to absolve myself of any guilt or responsibility for hurting you or the kids.
Have a great day! EQUALS I’m a narcissistic douche-bag. Tally-O!
You are absolutely correct! I used to be so cool!!! Well if that was cool then I would rather be boring. I still haven’t had an apology just – sorry your mad- sorry you’re hurt… blah, blah, blah…. He doesn’t feel guilty because he believes his narcissistic bullshit. They truly are sick individuals that believe their “truths”. He believes that he warned me. He felt rejected because after having twins- I wasn’t a nympho. Ridiciulous! All his pathetic bitches can have his ass! I should send her a sympathy card. Bless her heart!!!!
I got the same response – cheater handbook, it’s astounding how it’s all so similar.
I love the sense of humor we Chumps have.
My favorite was, “You have loved me more and better than anyone else…”
TRANSLATION: “You are great at feeding me cake. My new girlfriends, although much younger than you, are not so skilled. Could you give them some pointers? Because I’d like a whole harem of chicks – on several continents and in every time zone – telling me how awesome I am.”
Dick.
AWESOME translation!
OMG, Chump Lady—is it possible that somehow, my LCB (lying, cheating bastard) had ANOTHER wife AND kids of which I didn’t know because holyfuckingshit, he could have written that. I needed that translation because I was almost making kibbles to send in response to an email detailing his sadness. Thanks for all you do!!!
Berdawn
(Hillbilly Club Kid Chump)
Wow. Did the asshat in my home write this?
Could have sworn it was him. He came after me about a week ago moaning how hard it was to be him.
I told him to fuck off. Really. Because he has NO idea what hard is.
Hard is finding out you’ve been emotionally raped for YEARS by the one person you trusted completely. Hard is knowing your rapist allowed a second, third and fourth person to also rape you emotionally. Hard is knowing the slop that fills the bucket to create the shit sandwich is being held by YOU because mental health professionals have advised NOT to dump the bucket in front of your kids…..for now. Hard is accepting this shit really happened to you and to MOVE AHEAD with a past formed from vapor ware.
Ugh.
HUGS!!!
Gosh that sounds horrible. How long do you have to wait to leave??
Yes, but you can divorce his ass, and he can’t–his shit sticks to him every day of his life…
What keeps me stuck despite the post nup are the kids. Really. My therapist, who is supportive about legally dumping his ass, and the MC guy advise against it right now. The papers need to be served, etc… And then I can hand him his own shit right back to him.
Lately, I’ve been telling the world. Lots of people cannot believe this crazy story- not him, the good guy! How could you not know?
I’m getting the other bits together. I have a fin.planner friend outlining the numbers. There are goodies in the pipeline and I do NOT want to get screwed over. I don’t get the gut feeling that he GETS this part. He is a superb actor, so I must always assume he’s doing his homework too. My therapist cautioned me about this. This is the worst part because I suck at deceit.
Oh, ANC, I’m so sorry. I thought you had already kicked this twat-stealer to the curb. (“the asshat in my home” should have been the tip-off–facepalm!)
You aren’t being “stuck” if you are still working on a plan. Just because it’s behind the scenes at this point in time doesn’t mean you are being deceitful (yeah, I know that sounds wrong given cheaters do that), it means you are being cautious and protecting yourself, as well as your kids, so that the transition to fucktardless living can be as smooth as can be expected.
This perfectly expresses some of my pain. The fact that he did this and then let someone else in to abuse me too.The fact that I have five kids watching me and I don’t want them thinking this is ok.
Cheaters really are all the same aren’t they? Check out this little gem of an email.
Apparently, moving out after he slept with my friend gives him the right to say that I hurt him:
“I know you did not mean to hurt me, as I truly do not want to hurt you. The reality is rightly or wrongly it hurt. I don’t want you to feel this pain and I know that I will keep feeling this pain. In my own fucked up way I do love you and cherish you, I am sorry that I was not able to show you in a way that made/makes sense for you or to you. The last week with you has been amazing you have shown me sides of who you are that I miss. Strangely I always knew they were there and maybe in some ways resented never seeing them, and obviously acted out.”
Wow that IS a gem of twisted mind-effery you have there. I’ll take a stab:
“I know you did not mean to hurt me, as I truly do not want to hurt you.” EQUALS The sins we each did are equal. Me cheating on you is equal to you telling me to move out. My pain is just as bad as yours
“The reality is rightly or wrongly it hurt” EQUALS Same BS as above, but fails to admit to a “wrong”
“of course I don’t want you to feel this pain and I know that I will keep feeling this pain.” EQUALS I wish fucking around with others didn’t cause you pain, b/c I didn’t want you to be in pain. But the fact it does cause you pain wasn’t enough to stop me from doing it.
” In my own fucked up way I do love you and cherish you” EQUALS I am so damaged and special and extra-ordinary and complex
“I am sorry that I was not able to show you in a way that made/makes sense for you or to you” EQUALS you are the problem, not anything I did. You shouldn’t have been bothered by my fucknig your friend
“The last week with you has been amazing you have shown me sides of who you are that I miss. Strangely I always knew they were there and maybe in some ways resented never seeing them, and obviously acted out.” EQUALS I “acted out” because you treated me so amazingly, which I am horribly unaccustomed to, which caused me to act out. My actions are your fault.
THAT IS SOME SERIOUS WORD-EFFERY AND SHIT SALAD
Oooo! Oooooo!
“I know you did not mean to hurt me,
–by pointing out what a fucktard I really am
as I truly do not want to hurt you.
–because I don’t really care how you feel–I just wanted you to stay in the dark so I can eat cake
The reality is rightly or wrongly it hurt. I don’t want you to feel this pain
-I have no idea what I’m saying because I have no sense of reality, but I think it sounds deep
and I know that I will keep feeling this pain.
-It does hurt to have to find myself a new chump
In my own fucked up way I do love you and cherish you,
– In my own fucked up way, I do love and cherish the cake-eating I had with you, and appreciated your pick-me dance
I am sorry that I was not able to show you in a way that made/makes sense for you or to you.
-because you have weird and unrealistic expectations about how love should be shown–like fidelity? Pfft!
The last week with you has been amazing you have shown me sides of who you are that I miss. Strangely I always knew they were there
-you’ve shown me your absence. I miss the ego kibbles and the audience to my navel-gazing
and maybe in some ways resented never seeing them, and obviously acted out.”
-because it’s all your fault you are not enough to fill the huge void left by my lack of moral compass, so I have to cheat on you.
Hahaha- crying laughing at this beautiful translation:
The reality is rightly or wrongly it hurt. I don’t want you to feel this pain
-I have no idea what I’m saying because I have no sense of reality, but I think it sounds deep
Thank you ChumpLady for creating a place where the insanity of betrayal is so damn funny, this is one of the best yet!!! It truly is a Chump public service that you do!
After I caught my X in a motel room with Skank Woman three days later I was crying my eyes out at the the kitchen table and he calmly told me to ‘get some friends and go do things with them (he chased most away while we were married), ‘go get a boyfriend (he was jealous of me around men when married) and ‘to move on because he was.’
He was a complete unapologetic atheist but Skank Woman bought him a necklace with a cross and he wore it all the time. Boy did that chap my ass. They were Christians!! Who knew? Phoney fucks for sure. Christians cheat on their spouse and blow up marriages, don’t you know.
Oh, yeah. Dr. Hoe (the OW) had, on her Match.com profile, and I quote: “Christian, and STRONG in my faith” bwa hah ha. I know of a minimum of three marriages, besides her own, that she helped destroy by cheating.
How do these people look at themselves in the mirror (without throwing up)? In her case, I think she looked at herself in the mirror ceaselessly, and liked what she saw.
an AP of my XH was the girl-next-door type that he worked with and everyone thought was sooooo sweet.
She drove around with the Fish and Jesus sticker on her car and was really into her church, and active in the community. Don’t think many in her group knew she was running around with my husband while I was pregnant/gave birth and had a young child already.
It wasn’t worth it to me to ruin her. In reality I held my XH responsible to me, not her. The AP in my mind was either the world’s biggest liar or more likely a damaged, sad young woman. Either way she’d have to live with herself.
Apparently religion attracts a lot of narcissists.
My ex is Christian, I’m Jewish. His OW “soul mate” was also Christian. One reason he often gave for cheating with her, walking out on our marriage and doing his best to get her to dump her husband was “I need a family I can take to church.” LOL, seriously, you cannot make this shit up!
Of course, that OW apparently lost interest in him once he no longer had a good job and a nice house. HA!
OMG!
Mine had a vision ya know….
A calling…
A real Vision!
He was going to lose everything….
Yep!
He sure did!
This wasn’t his first calling either…
He also said, He didn’t know why this happened to him since he isn’t a religious person.
I guess he’s rethinking that angle a bit.
Buff up his resume for the next victim.
It obviously was his attempt at having me feel sorry for him.
Didn’t work….
Nope!
He lost everything.
And if I have my way, he will lose more then everything in the end.
I am “praying for the Karma bus to deliver his salvation”
Maybe he’ll get his chance to rise to the occasion again.
But it won’t be with me.
Unfortunately I feel sorry for his next victim.
Heard he was grooming a few 20 something whores for the job.
Young single mothers with Heroin habits, and prostitute to fulfill.
But he’s helping them ya know….
He is better than any Christian out there ya know.
He just drives them around and gives them money and tries to help them stay clean.
WTF?
I will never get it.
I have stopped trying.
He’s a real Nut Job…..
Disordered is being polite.
Good grief. It’s like they all take a course together: Cheaters’ Discourse 101. They all get that condescending tone and blabber about how hard this has all been for them while making the chump out to be the real villain. It’s downright spooky sometimes. My ex could have written that.
This is frightening, that email sounds more like my sociopathic ex than anything I has been read, discussed or reviewed on CL to date…except he was such a sociopath that he never would have been careless enough to out that in writing. They must read “The Playbook for Narcissists and Sociopaths.”
And I SO love this, CL:
“I think your failure to get past it is hurting the kids. Because not getting past things is what hurts kids. Fucking around on their mother for 11 years, however, is completely benign.”
Amen.
It’s been 10 years since I had the papers served on him and I was NC all through the separation/negotiation period and still am today! Thank God for lawyers even though they WERE expensive. I have NEVER gotten even a fake apology and am even now, STILL to blame for everything that goes wrong in his life…especially the fact that he is still paying child support (a whole $220 a month lol) because my youngest (22) is still in university (what kind of father doesn’t want his child to get a degree just so he can save $220 a month for 2 years???). When she calls him for news, he spends 95% of the time on the phone with her talking about himself and 5% about her. She’s been calling less often as a consequence and is down to calling him once a year at Christmas. My eldest daughter (29) has basically gone NC. That’s all my fault too of course, even though I now act like he doesn’t exist. It’s really very interesting to read this blog and all the comments and I wish I had had the kind of support that exists here when I was going through the split (and before!).
It’s like I’m reading my life story, Chump did the Dump! Only my kids are 22 and 20, and both are in college. No apology, hardly any money and no contact for a decade. All down to a tee!
Well, they can hardly be unique! There’s lots of narcs out there with different variations on the theme. All I can say is I felt like I got my life back and lost a 200 lb. c ancerous tumor when he moved out and I went around with a perpetual smile on my face for months afterwards. After living with him and his f’d up version of normal for so many years, it was wonderful to be able to do what I wanted for a change and think only of myself and my daughters instead of always being subservient to my “master’s” wishes. Once I had made up my mind after a year-long fake reconciliation, I didn’t give him a chance to apologize or to start the pick-me dance all over, it was NC all the way for me! So no good apology/translation stories but no regrets either! I got to “meh” in record. And that’s directly related to how much of an abusive jerk he was…
Oh you Chumps make me laugh!
All the emails I’ve received from the X follow the same formula:
“Dear Doop, I can’t change the past but I hope that this time has brought you happiness. *Insert whatever business needs to be discussed here. (Read: whatever he needs me to do for him.)*
I want nothing but the very best for you, and I hope that you are in a great place.
Thank you for all you have done, you are a spectacular person and you deserve only the very best.”
Ugh. When I read today’s post…I could catch myself falling for it! I need my very own UBT.
Doop, that is so funny! Can’t believe he has such a formula.
But he’s right about one thing, you DO deserve only the very best! Which of course means having NOTHING to do with him!
Ahahahahaha! CL I love you. I really do.
This cheater de-coded letter is so perfect. My cheater STBX is clever and articulate. He could have wrote that. Love how it’s all BS.
Thanks for this!
This is so sickeningly familiar. For me, especially “And I’ve done nothing with the explicit” In my case it was: “No changes I made were done to hurt you.” and “Muse, I never want you to hurt. Ever. Not in any way.”
But comparing himself to Jesus – holy crap, ROTFLMAO, as they say. Talk about narcissistic grandiosity on steroids! Thank you, Chump Lady once again for your incisive bullshit translation. These narcs are just so predictable.
TheMuse, your ex is like mine. My ex kept saying he didn’t hurt me or the kids INTENTIONALLY. Because that excuses it all, of course! He did not spend one second thinking about the hurt he was causing me or his children, not one second thinking about any impact on his kids that his behaviour might have, or any responsibility on his part to care for his kids and his relationship with him.
Because normal parents would do that, right? Not think at all about their kids’ well-being for A YEAR AND A HALF (until they started refusing to see him), while breaking up their family and betraying their mother? That’s normal, right? BTW, during an attempt to convince me to try reconciling, he admitted openly and repeatedly that he had not given one single thought to his kids well-being or his relationship with them, throughout the affair and separation. Once his mistress had said ‘kids are resilient, they’ll be ok’, and his one friend (also a cheater) said the same, while I was dumping his ass, he dismissed them from his mind.
They think it makes them sound better – it wasn’t ON PURPOSE! But what it really does is make them sound like sociopaths.
My ex often says he tries to be just like Jesus. I’m not sure what “Jesus” he is trying to emulate, certainly not the one I’m familiar with from the bible. Pretty sure that Jesus doesn’t approve of lying, cheating, manipulating and general wickedness, but hey, other than that, my ex is just like him.
He meant a different Jesus, you know Glad, the one who lied and cheated, had strange sexual encounters, and abandoned his family (and also stole his ex’s suitcase)! Don’t you GET it?
This is so…wonderful. ! Surely amongst all the Chumps here we have a programmer who can create a language generator. Remember the old adage garbage in, garbage out? Well, there you go. We could each feed it our cheater’s spew, and it would translate into realityspeak. hah.
Vera! What a fantastic idea!
Did you guys see the Academy Awards and how John Travolta messed up Idina Menzel’s name? The next day there was thing automatic name generator going around FB called the “Travoltifier” so you could see how your name would have been butchered.
Maybe this is why we chumps have so much trouble communicating with these guys. We use totally normal English sentences, and they hear “Adele Dazeem.”
We use totally normal English sentences, and they hear ‘go ahead and screw around! It’s not a big deal! I’ll yell a bit when I find out, but then go right back to providing cake and kibbles’.
I’m just annoyed he sounds so articulate about it… a little too polite and devoid in personality… but definitely articulate.
Maybe the lack of personality is how we can tell them from the rest of us… it’s like he’s just going through the motions of an apology and trying to sound like Mr. Perfect. But it does not sound genuine.
Just had to give one more shout out to “only Jesus didn’t have to pay child support. I think I have it worse than Jesus really.” I’m going to get that tattooed somewhere!!
I was about to post again just romaine that line another shout-out too. Thank you Paula!
…”to give” that line….. NOT “just romaine…… Hahahahaha
Kelly – ha – I thought the ‘Romaine’ was good salad fucktalk.
Haha – hmmmm, salad fucktalk, has a ring to it….
Tracy, you are one fucking funny bitch, man.
Owner this letter. Why oh why do I want to send him CL’s translation? Don’t worry, I won’t. So about the whole Jesus thing. Our separation is all very new and we do not have an agreement in place.I have presented him with one and he is having it reviewed by his attorney. I asked on Saturday nights if I could have our 3 small children back for church until we have set weekends as it’s more important now than ever for them to learn a moral compass. For the record, ScratchySweaterJesus is an atheist. He was trying to play me.
Oh that’s rich. He’s an atheist and yet he thinks he knows what Jesus would do in your situation?
It’s how these freaks operate. He’ll take whatever’s sacred to you, and manipulate you with it.
For the record, I’m an atheist, don’t let your stbx gives us a bad name. Honestly judging by Chump Nation stories, the jesuscheaters do this stuff way better.
That said I have read the bible, all of it and some of it is really good stuff, not talking about whether any of it is true (hope no offense taken to my quoting it here). I don’t believe Jesus stands for forgiveness, not by any means. He didn’t tear down the temple because he was forgiving those bastards. OTH, what your stbx was doing with his bullshit is something Jesus was very familiar with, that’s where this passage comes in: Matthew 7:3 “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye, but considerest not the beame that is in thine owne eye?”
blameshifting is normal for these assholes, although I like chump in the sand’s version; blameshitting and really that’s what that passage says, before you get all up in someone’s face over their transgressions, own yours. But the sentence is so perfect that he’s saying much more than that and so succinctly. He’s saying that if you are looking at others and judging them harshly, it’s clear (to him) that you have a larger problem than the person you are judging. There is so much in those 23 words, they convey so much meaning. I may not believe but I really appreciate a number of passages in the bible because whoever wrote them had such genius. OK, I got carried away, sorry bout that…
Well said, Wuf. For an atheist, you have Jesus nailed pretty good. He was NOT the wimpy forgiving doormat catastrophically portrayed by mainstream churches (who then wonder why modern psychology and eastern religions make more sense to folks).
Jesus talked about the danger of projection and denial and the false self waaay before anyone else. And he wasn’t pretty about. How many people know that in the parable of the prodigal son the sinner is the ‘good boy’ – and why?
PS and before I get carried away, Genesis chapter 3? Is the most perfect metaphor for the human condition ever. EVER. It talks about the loss of innocence and the need to make choices. Those 3 people might have been illiterate and throwing stones at their goats whilst they thought of it, but they were geniuses.
Re taking the kids to church, I would also add that during this time, it’s important for them to a) have as much routine as possible, and b) feel the support of the community and other people around them.
Your STBX sounds like a real piece of work. Good luck during your divorce process.
My first husband was the worst. He was a child molester. The judge in our divorce ordered us to go to a support group for parents of abused kids. The EH was thrown out of the offenders group. He was deemed to be beyond help. I went to the mom’s group where they taught me the lingo the perps used. This post is just like that training. The translation reveals the truth. I never again believed my EH and I sure don’t believe my NPD current husband! Now if I could just stop picking defective men…
Linda I kind of think you should name him. A factual statement on FB, containing his name.
Single mothers do not know that they are targetted by these people, with the express intention of gaining access to and control of, their children.
What sort of translation can you remember?
We had a shithead childmolester in one of our churches. My God, did we ever feel like shit when we found out–we felt so bad we hadn’t clued in!
And you are absolutely right–they do target single moms–that’s exactly what he did.
It took 2 more times before he was labelled a dangerous offender, despite his being wanted for 15 years before he hit our church.
You just shake your head at the system.
I just had a court date today with cheater X, over custody. He wants 50/50 custody of our baby. Who is still BREASTFEEDING. Breastfeeding. Like, eating from my breasts. (Or good girl and bad girl as I’ve always called them) During the court-ordered mediation before the actual court, he was just so, so HURT. Just as hurt as could be. Kept asking why I was being so “unreasonable” to not give him 50/50 custody so he doesn’t have to pay child support. He kept saying “What’s your hang up? You’re making this all about YOU and your hurt feelings. This is about our son…” while making sad cheater faces. We came back to the court room and told the judge we couldn’t come to an agreement and she gave him two non-overnight visits every two weeks. Her name was Daphne. If I ever meet a normal man and have a daughter I think I will name her Judge Daphne. Or maybe Judge Daphne Urock.
I LOVE Judge Daphne!
Can we have a Chump Nation Hall of Fame? Judge Daphne could be our first inductee!
Oh CL… you are amazing… love love love the work you do. I read these things and go OMG, that is me. This especially I love!!!
“However, I approached our relationship and my love for you from a very genuine place, and always wanted it to work.”
You are genuinely of use to me. I always wanted it to work, because I define work as — I do whatever the fuck I want to and you accept it. Preferably in complete ignorance of what I’m up to.
and this
“Right now I’m just focused on facing my shame and guilt so that I be there for my kids and attend all their activities, etc. I’m certainly no role model husband, but I’m trying to at least be a role model dad.”
Not everyone knows I’m a douchebag and chicks dig the appearance of an involved father. Might get lucky at a soccer game, you never know. Hey, I’m trying to see the silver lining here.
The 10 page letter he has just sent to child support about why he can’t possibly afford to support his children anymore as he was supporting his AP kids and how he was emotionally distraught by the whole situation and about how he hasn’t been involved in his kids lives since he ran off……
You so totally rock Tracy!!
He can’t afford to support his own kids anymore because he’s supporting his AP’s kids, and hasn’t been involved in his kids’ lives since he ran off.
Oh yeah, a judge will LOOOOOVVVEEE that, will totally let him off the hook!
These people are so real that trading in one body for another seems to be their preferred way to end a relationship. To a narc we are Legos. As in I am married/in a long term relationship with you but my shit is falling apart so I need someone-anyone- in my life (don’t care what kind of person this is, etc) before I jump ship. Perhaps that’s only one of many signs. You know you are a cheater when… You make decisions unilaterally. You make decisions not in your family’s best interest.
I was definitely a Lego for the narc, but I guess kids are harder to replace, ’cause he’s not happy that the kids want nothing more to do with him. Maybe he should have found a younger OW, could have made more kids, gotten as many kibbles as they would provide, then fucked them over too. Although I guess there’s still plenty of time for him to do that, he’s only 45.
Sure am glad that OW is older and has her own kids, and I hope that relationship lasts, ’cause I wouldn’t wish that fucktard on anybody as a dad, feel bad enough about making him my own kids’ father.
ha ha ha! THIS. “You are genuinely of use to me. I always wanted it to work, because I define work as — I do whatever the fuck I want to and you accept it. Preferably in complete ignorance of what I’m up to.”
I lived this ‘reconciliation’ for 5 years. And do you know what, Chumps? That is on ME.
But Patsy, you missed one tiny bit in your translation! ‘I do whatever the fuck I want to and you accept it, AND you keep working super hard to make me happy and make our relationship work no matter what I do, because if you don’t, then I’ll blame you for that!’
THIS. “You are genuinely of use to me. I always wanted it to work, because I define work as — I do whatever the fuck I want to and you accept it. Preferably in complete ignorance of what I’m up to.” This way they can keep up their good guy/husband/father image to the rest of the world.
I had been living in this turd-haze bubble for years! Amazing how much clearer you can see once you gain some distance & perspective. I am playing the part of a passive Lego for now until my escape plan is complete.
Oh damn, all the Lego talk has got that song into my head. May as well share …
Everything is awesome!
There, now it’s in your head too! Should that be some kind of cheater theme song?
Loved the movie, even the UniKitty couldn’t keep spackling forever! Shall we make her an honorary Chump?.
I’ve been lurking on this site for a couple of weeks and wish I’d found it 4 years ago. Please keep inspiring me and others CL x
Welcome Gateaux, this place is the real deal, and will give you strength, support and courage…and a boatload of laughs. CL and Chump Nation are what has gotten me through to the other side, and you will get there too. (((HUGS)))
oops
…are what have…
I love you CL. I want to send a special thank you from the countless readers who like me many days can barely get out of bed or off the couch and find pure oxygen here on your site. Please know when I’m more functioning I’ll give back as I love to write for release – unfortunately my biggest energy output has been writing to my husband in our ‘reconciliation’ period. But a week ago I detached more (ouch) and you and the bloggers are literally a lifeline -out here in the trenches we are too drained to physically thank you very much but know you are saving many more lives than you may see responding From this lousy point of life I had to share my thank you from every cell that wants me to survive this – with your presence I will – your efforts are for sure being used for incredible good. Thank you for carrying a vision for change during a time of feeling paralyzed.
Marianne, welcome to Chump Nation, the club nobody chooses to join, but everybody is glad is there when we need it! You will gradually feel better, and then can join us more ‘vocally’ if you like. And some day not too far down the line, you’ll be one of the veterans, encouraging the newly-chumped.