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Why Women Cheat?

OW_walkAnyone see this on HuffPo?

Why do women cheat? A new survey from Victoria Milan — a dating site for married people seeking affairs — suggests it’s because they find their partner really, really annoying. (And apparently, the only way to cope with that is to hook up with another dude.)

The website polled 6,000 women on the site and a whopping 73 percent of the ladies said the chief reason they cheated was because they were annoyed by their partner’s character flaws and behavior. The number one complaint the women brought up? A lackluster sense of humor, at 19 percent.

Unsurprisingly, more than half of the women admitted they were looking for a lover who did not possess the trait they found so obnoxious in their partner.

Below, the 10 most irritating behaviors that the women cited as excuses for cheating:

1. He lacks a sense of humor (19%)
2. He’s not understanding enough (16%)
3. He’s not good in bed (14%)
4. He lacks good manners (11%)
5. He’s lazy and doesn’t have any life plans (10%)
6. He doesn’t care about his appearance and has poor hygiene (9%)
7. He’s not successful (7%)
8. He doesn’t pay enough attention to details and social obligations (5%)
9. He’s unable to clean up after himself and he’s a mama’s boy (5%)
10. He’s stingy (4%)

Where to begin? I love that cheaters are annoyed by “character flaws” — that’s a hoot! And I’m also wondering why every “married dating site” (cough) is named like some Harlequin romance character — Victoria Milan? Ashley Madison? They never name these things Cheryl Schultz. No, Victoria Milan is a classy hooker with a heart of gold. Ashley Madison is a plucky real estate agent with a fondness for garter belts under her business attire. Seduce her right and she’ll go spread eagle at the title and loans.

These married dating site PR people sure know how to pitch. To the idiot women who want to live a Harlequin romance fantasy (I‘m not a Martha — I’m an Ashley!), and to all the men avoiding the Cheryl’s in their lives. Those drab women who get shit done.

Oh, and “married dating sites”? That’s like saying “gambling den savings” or “peaceful flame thrower” — it’s an oxymoron, you moron. You don’t “date” while married. That’s called “cheating.” But I guess “cheating site” doesn’t sound as sexy, even if you name it Victoria Milan.

Anyway… why women cheat.

Because, guys, you don’t have a sense of humor.

I know, I know — there you were being a grown up, working a job, paying bills and cleaning the gutters. It wasn’t a chuckle fest. It’s hard to be witty when the baby wakes you up at 3 a.m. But work on it, okay? Maybe you should consider an improv class. Or juggling. Or maybe one of those bowties that squirts water?

Could clown college affair proof your marriage?

Just throwing out suggestions — because if you don’t keep things light and breezy around here, she’s going to be boinking her co-worker Chip. Fail at the funny and there are reasons 2 through 10 to cheat on you as well. On your toes, gentleman! Don’t annoy the ladies or its chumpdom for you!

Did anyone notice that most of these items are pure projection? Not understanding enough? Lazy and doesn’t have life plans? Doesn’t pay enough attention to details and social obligations?

Really Victoria? How many social obligations are you attending to while you’re off fucking Chip? Huh? Do you find yourself attending to the details of childcare while you are conducting an affair?

And good manners? Seriously? A guy doesn’t hold open the car door for you and you’re liable to fuck his best friend? You think THAT is mannerly? You think Emily Post has a section of etiquette for whoring around on your husband? Put down your seafood fork and think for a minute. Cheating is BAD MANNERS. No, hit yourself with the seafood fork. You are bad! Bad! Bad!

Stop making excuses for your shitty behavior. His untrimmed toenails did not drive you to cheater dating sites. Your entitlement did. Your inability to deal like a grown up with the little disappointments and imperfections of life. God knows there is some faithful chump somewhere putting up with your shit — your hair in the drain, your lazy ass on the sofa, and your inability to find Will Ferrell funny — and he’s not cheating on you.

For the love of God, get a divorce. We could use some faithful guys in the dating pool. And you can continue your eternal quest for a characterless cheater who makes you laugh.

Best of luck, idiot.

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  • Bad manners? No sense of humor? Unsuccessful with no life goals?

    Yeah, I ran into guys like that, too – when I was DATING. None of them made it to a second date. Because that’s when most people pick up on all these types of “character flaws,” when they’re DATING. Not after years of marriage.

    Yep CL, ANY excuse will do. Except, apparently, the real one: the CHEATER has the character flaw…

    • Mean don’t make nice.Treat you like shit,then gently whisper sweet nothings.
      She can have the god complex over you,then you’ll let her know what’s purpose.
      God did say to suffer?At the hands of your prized best lover?

  • I’ve read countless “articles” about cheating over the past 2 years and I can tell ya–
    most of them are BOGUS when it comes to pin pointing the REAL reason(s) WHY people cheat. It’s as if people deliberately want to avoid the truth about cheating.

    What’s even more confusing is that reformed cheaters who have done the hard work (yes, there are a few) on themselves ALL seemed to have come to the same conclusions: They cheated because they were selfish. They cheated because they felt *entitled* to be happy. They cheated because they were cowards. And their out of control ego was the driving force behind ALL of it.


    • True. Many of us have experienced this first-hand with our exs. Their needs are a moving target, impossible to hit! In the end, they just want their selfish fun, plus as a bonus, they get to say with their actions “You’re not the boss of me!”

    • Gypsey, the one guy who cheated on his wife went to counselling and the counsellor honed in on all the things you say, and after he dealt with and faced his selfishness do you know what he did?

      – he voluntarily told her EVERYTHING about his affair, even the stuff she couldn’t have known.

      – then, he went and faced his propensity to LIE and his dishonesty to get his own way – the ‘allowing’ her to think what she ‘thought’ so that he could stay in the dark. He brought this up with her: how much he lied to her, how much of a little liar he was.
      He faced his selfishness, entitlement and dishonesty.

      His wife says: her marriage is happier than it was before, he is a better person than he was before.
      And example of a guy who ‘got it’. The only one I know other than Brian Bercht.

  • My Cheater Prize said it was because we never talked. Followed of course by “I didn’t think you’d find out.”

    I guess bitch could have given me a multitude of reasons since it was all cheater talk anyway!

    • I got the “I didn’t think you’d find out” excuse too. Thanks asshole…that makes me feel so much better. If that doesn’t speak volumes to their sense of entitlement, I don’t know what does.

          • No offense, Michael, but you’re not teaching your boys anything valuable by staying with your whorey wife. Read research on how this could turn out for them. It often leads to them becoming chumps themselves.

            • Whoa, heartbroken. I don’t think attempting reconciliation shows bad character. Might be (usually is) futile, but not bad character. In fact, I think it usually arises from some character traits that are generally good (generosity of spirit, ability to forgive, loyalty, strong sense of family, etc.). A good character trait directed at an undeserving person doesn’t indicate bad character.

              Though I agree that kids watch the behavior we model and get bad ideas about relationships from ill-advised reconciliation.

              • Thanks nomar & heartbroken if it makes you feel better & makes your day by calling my wife a whore then please enjoy. I dont share your view of degrading people to serve my own means I am not wired that way. I work my balls off to let go of the anger it does not serve my kids well to have a pissed off angry man in the house calling their mother a whore.

                Good luck to you 🙂 I wish you well.

              • I think it shows a tremendous amount of character for Michael to put at prioritize what is (in his opinion) the best interests of his children at present.

                I have all faith that his ability to be dignified in dealing with the uncertainty and heartbreak in the short-run will serve him well in the long run as he find ways to work this out so that it is win-win for both him and his children.

                Doing this requires delay of gratification, patience, and an ability to think things through carefully before implementing a plan of action. And these are the hallmarks of maturity.

                Cheers to you Michael for being a class act!

              • dang it that should have read, “to prioritze” not “to put at prioritize”

            • Only the person in the relationship can decide whether and when to leave a marriage. I am sure Micheal is trying to do what he thinks is best for his boys and I don’t think it is fair to judge his decision. Sounds like he is doing the best he can in an obviously difficult situation.

            • MichaelD, you continue to amaze and inspire. Rock on, my friend, and thanks for walking the walk. I hope you know how many of us who are reading your posts ‘get it.’

              • YOU GIRLS/GUYS amaze me ,, your all so strong ! Life has kicked most of you square in the face & to use an expression,,you have all maned up & did & do what you have to do with courage strength & hope to survive. Just amazing 🙂 You on this site inspire be proud 🙂

              • Mike-

                I tried reconcilliation too for three years. Sometimes I regret wasting those years because I’m not a spring chicken anymore but I think it gave me a sense of definite closure and I learned from it. I’m certainly not ashamed by it and neither should you be.

                Only you know what’s right for you and your family. Keep rocking on. You are mighty!

      • My X said the same. The married OW told everyone her husband wouldn’t work and didn’t make enough money. Turned out he was a successful IT guy making over 100k a year!

        • You’ll never make it into the top 1% and buy that yacht with the helipad on 100K a year. That was clearly the problem 😉

          • Although, if you did have the yacht and helipad and the lounge chairs and stocked with chilled Château Mouton Rothschild, she’d probably have been screwing her tennis coach who was living out of his car until 6 months ago while complaining that all you care about is “money”.

            • You got me with Château Mouton de Rothschild! I wouldn’t sleep with anyone for a glass of it, but I might flirt shamelessly instead.

            • You are exactly right! Some people are never satisfied; enough is never enough. I see this all the time in my work and I think it goes to the core of narcissism. There is a giant hole that can never be filled and the narcissist wants whatever it is he or she doesn’t have. Thus, the constant need for money, status, things, the constant comparison to others. These folks can never experience quiet contentment because they are “crippled inside.”

            • Ever heard of a home or boat that is a “Money Pit?” Well the Narcissist is an “Attention Pit.” Even when you are pouring it in, it seems to vanish, constituting the need for another dose. If they weren’t such asswipes, I think I would even feel sorry for them!!

      • I got that all the time. Not for the cheating, but for everything else. Catch him watching porn? “I didn’t think you’d find out.” Find his online personal ad? “I didn’t tell you because I knew you’d react this way.” Furious with him because other women have been sending him porn? “I don’t see what’s inappropriate about that, it’s not real.”

        All that stuff.

        • I love “I didn’t tell you because I knew you’d react this way”. Mine was phrased “I didn’t want to upset you.” Then don’t DO it, not don’t tell me about it. Fuckwits.

      • “I got the “I didn’t think you’d find out” excuse too.”
        Another thing smack out of the Cheater’s Handbook! Mine was “I hoped you’d never find out.” 3 year affair..she was wanting a commitment..he gave her a ring for Xmas. Bigamy, anyone??

    • Among some of the bigger gems, I got this: you didn’t hug me at the Bruce Springsteen concert (I was three months preggers and waiting on some very touchy testing while dealing with a serious physical condition that made getting pregnant a miracle. Well, not really a miracle but I had to take matters onto my own hands. I’ll save that fir the grand kids .) Also, I didn’t think that the sit com Parks and Recreation was all that funny. He did. I know, I’m a bitch. Meanwhile in other news, within the same year of dday, I alone restructured all of our loans on our properties without costing us a dime and allowed us to buy a second car, nice one too. I alone negotiated the trade in like a boss. End result, we bought a new car for free and increased our rental income by 10%. All this after recovering from a risky 7 hour robotic surgery to correct said ailment above. Oh and there’s more, but his underemployed serial adulterer hash slinger who looks like him with a wig was just too enticing. Enjoy the ball and chain and her anchor babies. Hope the prostate massages are worth it.

      • Whatswaste “Hope the prostate massages are worth it.”


        (hope the surgery fixed the problem, and I don’t mean your ex)

        • That is actually funny! Maybe she could have the Ex removed at the same time! Toxic Turd removal. Have pathology make sure they “got it all.”

  • Absolutely appalling!!!! I would venture to guess that these so called women (aka whores) live in a world with no mirrors. They have never seriously looked at themselves and were honest about their own flaws. WE ALL HAVE THEM! And……why on earth did they marry men who had such irritating behaviors??? (said sarcastically) WTF?? This has me extremely annoyed this morning!!!

    Here are my ten reasons why women cheat……
    1. No moral compass
    2. No empathy for others
    3. No compassion
    4. No brains
    5. No manners
    6. Attention whore
    7. Entitlement issues
    8. Enjoys cake
    9. Low self esteem
    10. BECAUSE SHE CAN!!!!

        • You mean “higher than is warranted”, right?

          I mean, it could always be higher if …. masses of people bowed before them 🙂

          • Well, yes, higher than warranted. But I think in their minds they really believe they are Very Amazing and Special People. To whom the rules do not apply. That’s where the sense of entitlement comes from. They are entitled to whatever they want BECAUSE they are so special. The “low self-esteem” thing is usually spackle applied by chumps to help us excuse a cheater’s choices while we’re attempting reconciliation. Though sometimes it’s an excuse offered by cheaters to gain sympathy and avoid responsibility.

            • My ex tried the “my self-esteem issues” excuse while the movers were loading the truck with the stuff she took the day after our divorce. I didn’t bite. She had over-inflated self-esteem, IMO.

              I didn’t spackle with that, and I didn’t buy it either because… well, I knew her, and if anything she had a huge inability to see her own flaws 99.999% of the time.

              • I got the same thing. Funny, but a cheater’s self-pity doesn’t make cheating any more attractive.

            • “They are entitled to whatever they want BECAUSE they are so special. The “low self-esteem” thing is usually spackle applied by chumps to help us excuse a cheater’s choices”

              THIS. I’ve never been impressed with the theory that narcissists and bullies feel self esteem deep inside, therefore overcompensating with their apparent self love. IMHO, narcs REALLY DO feel they are more special and better than everyone else.

        • Wow, Nomar. So glad I’m not the ONLY one who thinks that HIGH self-esteem–and not LOW self-esteem–is (part of) their problem. I understand that many therapists claim that narcissism, egoism, superiority, grandiosity, arrogance, selfishness etc. are only “masks” for low self-esteem and feelings of worthlessness. *I* say BULLSH*T on the ‘mask’ part; these people REALLY DO BELIEVE that they are superior to others…that they are ‘better’ than others…that they “DESERVE” to be ‘happy’, no matter who they hurt in the process…that they should have ‘it’ all.

          No wonder why therapy doesn’t work on narcissists MOST of the time. Aside from narcissists not believing they have a problem in the first place, it seems like the focus is on trying to raise the narcissists self-esteem without lowering his ego!


          • My therapist says that only there isn’t a cure for narcissism, he actually wouldn’t consider taking one on as a patient because they generally don’t do well in a setting where they’re forced to analyze their behavior. This man is a wise, retired clinical psychologist who has done a 40+ year research on this stuff. I trust him.

          • About the self-esteem…..Oh, YES!!! They have it, in very great quanity! What they lack is self-respect. (And lots of other things, too!)

            When I heard that explanation, it finally made sense.

            Like the scriptures bring out at Romans 12:3: ‘…..not to think more of himself than it is necessary to think, but to think so as to have a sound mind,…….’

            I guess the undue esteem is to compensate for lack of self-respect.

            This was a really nice series of comments on this topic. Thank all of you so much for these! It has helped me greatly this day!

            Forge on, Nation….ForgeOn!

            • Prisoners have very high self-esteem. Think about it– why did they murder, rape, or embezzle? Because they grew up poor? Because their mommies weren’t nice to them? Plenty of people grow up poor and with mean mommies, and they will never break the law. However, people who think they are ENTITLED to take the law into their own hands to achieve whatever end they think they’re deserving of do so because they have very high opinions of themselves. This study focuses more on violence, but I’m sure it could apply to cheating as well:

          • I agree. Mine used to tell me that he was better than everyone else. No shame. Smarter too.
            He cheated because he is better than me and deserved to do it. He told me on a number of occasions ” we’ll be FINE” as long as you let me do what I want to do !”
            No self esteem issues there!

            • Our narcissistic culture promotes this attitude of “I’m SO incredibly special that I can do what I want and screw everybody else.”

              This guy had a great snark fest about it while giving a high school commencement speech.

              Ouch! David McCullough Jr., the son of the Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and a longtime English teacher at Wellesley High School, gave his students a reality check at their graduation this year. Read his speech below, via The Swellesley Report. Plus, watch the video

              YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL

              “Dr. Wong, Dr. Keough, Mrs. Novogroski, Ms. Curran, members of the board of education, family and friends of the graduates, ladies and gentlemen of the Wellesley High School class of 2012, for the privilege of speaking to you this afternoon, I am honored and grateful. Thank you.

              So here we are… commencement… life’s great forward-looking ceremony. (And don’t say, “What about weddings?” Weddings are one-sided and insufficiently effective. Weddings are bride-centric pageantry. Other than conceding to a list of unreasonable demands, the groom just stands there. No stately, hey-everybody-look-at-me procession. No being given away. No identity-changing pronouncement. And can you imagine a television show dedicated to watching guys try on tuxedos? Their fathers sitting there misty-eyed with joy and disbelief, their brothers lurking in the corner muttering with envy. Left to men, weddings would be, after limits-testing procrastination, spontaneous, almost inadvertent… during halftime… on the way to the refrigerator. And then there’s the frequency of failure: statistics tell us half of you will get divorced. A winning percentage like that’ll get you last place in the American League East. The Baltimore Orioles do better than weddings.)

              But this ceremony… commencement… a commencement works every time. From this day forward… truly… in sickness and in health, through financial fiascos, through midlife crises and passably attractive sales reps at trade shows in Cincinnati, through diminishing tolerance for annoyingness, through every difference, irreconcilable and otherwise, you will stay forever graduated from high school, you and your diploma as one, ‘til death do you part.

              No, commencement is life’s great ceremonial beginning, with its own attendant and highly appropriate symbolism. Fitting, for example, for this auspicious rite of passage, is where we find ourselves this afternoon, the venue. Normally, I avoid clichés like the plague, wouldn’t touch them with a ten-foot pole, but here we are on a literal level playing field. That matters. That says something. And your ceremonial costume… shapeless, uniform, one-size-fits-all. Whether male or female, tall or short, scholar or slacker, spray-tanned prom queen or intergalactic X-Box assassin, each of you is dressed, you’ll notice, exactly the same. And your diploma… but for your name, exactly the same.
              Video screenshot

              All of this is as it should be, because none of you is special.

              You are not special. You are not exceptional.

              Contrary to what your u9 soccer trophy suggests, your glowing seventh grade report card, despite every assurance of a certain corpulent purple dinosaur, that nice Mister Rogers and your batty Aunt Sylvia, no matter how often your maternal caped crusader has swooped in to save you… you’re nothing special.

              Yes, you’ve been pampered, cosseted, doted upon, helmeted, bubble-wrapped. Yes, capable adults with other things to do have held you, kissed you, fed you, wiped your mouth, wiped your bottom, trained you, taught you, tutored you, coached you, listened to you, counseled you, encouraged you, consoled you and encouraged you again. You’ve been nudged, cajoled, wheedled and implored. You’ve been feted and fawned over and called sweetie pie. Yes, you have. And, certainly, we’ve been to your games, your plays, your recitals, your science fairs. Absolutely, smiles ignite when you walk into a room, and hundreds gasp with delight at your every tweet. Why, maybe you’ve even had your picture in the Townsman! And now you’ve conquered high school… and, indisputably, here we all have gathered for you, the pride and joy of this fine community, the first to emerge from that magnificent new building…

              But do not get the idea you’re anything special. Because you’re not.

              The empirical evidence is everywhere, numbers even an English teacher can’t ignore. Newton, Natick, Nee… I am allowed to say Needham, yes? …that has to be two thousand high school graduates right there, give or take, and that’s just the neighborhood Ns. Across the country no fewer than 3.2 million seniors are graduating about now from more than 37,000 high schools. That’s 37,000 valedictorians… 37,000 class presidents… 92,000 harmonizing altos… 340,000 swaggering jocks… 2,185,967 pairs of Uggs. But why limit ourselves to high school? After all, you’re leaving it. So think about this: even if you’re one in a million, on a planet of 6.8 billion that means there are nearly 7,000 people just like you. Imagine standing somewhere over there on Washington Street on Marathon Monday and watching sixty-eight hundred yous go running by. And consider for a moment the bigger picture: your planet, I’ll remind you, is not the center of its solar system, your solar system is not the center of its galaxy, your galaxy is not the center of the universe. In fact, astrophysicists assure us the universe has no center; therefore, you cannot be it. Neither can Donald Trump… which someone should tell him… although that hair is quite a phenomenon.

              “But, Dave,” you cry, “Walt Whitman tells me I’m my own version of perfection! Epictetus tells me I have the spark of Zeus!” And I don’t disagree. So that makes 6.8 billion examples of perfection, 6.8 billion sparks of Zeus. You see, if everyone is special, then no one is. If everyone gets a trophy, trophies become meaningless. In our unspoken but not so subtle Darwinian competition with one another–which springs, I think, from our fear of our own insignificance, a subset of our dread of mortality—we have of late, we Americans, to our detriment, come to love accolades more than genuine achievement. We have come to see them as the point—and we’re happy to compromise standards, or ignore reality, if we suspect that’s the quickest way, or only way, to have something to put on the mantelpiece, something to pose with, crow about, something with which to leverage ourselves into a better spot on the social totem pole. No longer is it how you play the game, no longer is it even whether you win or lose, or learn or grow, or enjoy yourself doing it… Now it’s “So what does this get me?” As a consequence, we cheapen worthy endeavors, and building a Guatemalan medical clinic becomes more about the application to Bowdoin than the well-being of Guatemalans. It’s an epidemic—and in its way, not even dear old Wellesley High is immune… one of the best of the 37,000 nationwide, Wellesley High School… where good is no longer good enough, where a B is the new C, and the midlevel curriculum is called Advanced College Placement. And I hope you caught me when I said “one of the best.” I said “one of the best” so we can feel better about ourselves, so we can bask in a little easy distinction, however vague and unverifiable, and count ourselves among the elite, whoever they might be, and enjoy a perceived leg up on the perceived competition. But the phrase defies logic. By definition there can be only one best. You’re it or you’re not.

              If you’ve learned anything in your years here I hope it’s that education should be for, rather than material advantage, the exhilaration of learning. You’ve learned, too, I hope, as Sophocles assured us, that wisdom is the chief element of happiness. (Second is ice cream… just an fyi) I also hope you’ve learned enough to recognize how little you know… how little you know now… at the moment… for today is just the beginning. It’s where you go from here that matters.

              As you commence, then, and before you scatter to the winds, I urge you to do whatever you do for no reason other than you love it and believe in its importance. Don’t bother with work you don’t believe in any more than you would a spouse you’re not crazy about, lest you too find yourself on the wrong side of a Baltimore Orioles comparison. Resist the easy comforts of complacency, the specious glitter of materialism, the narcotic paralysis of self-satisfaction. Be worthy of your advantages. And read… read all the time… read as a matter of principle, as a matter of self-respect. Read as a nourishing staple of life. Develop and protect a moral sensibility and demonstrate the character to apply it. Dream big. Work hard. Think for yourself. Love everything you love, everyone you love, with all your might. And do so, please, with a sense of urgency, for every tick of the clock subtracts from fewer and fewer; and as surely as there are commencements there are cessations, and you’ll be in no condition to enjoy the ceremony attendant to that eventuality no matter how delightful the afternoon.

              The fulfilling life, the distinctive life, the relevant life, is an achievement, not something that will fall into your lap because you’re a nice person or mommy ordered it from the caterer. You’ll note the founding fathers took pains to secure your inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness—quite an active verb, “pursuit”—which leaves, I should think, little time for lying around watching parrots rollerskate on Youtube. The first President Roosevelt, the old rough rider, advocated the strenuous life. Mr. Thoreau wanted to drive life into a corner, to live deep and suck out all the marrow. The poet Mary Oliver tells us to row, row into the swirl and roil. Locally, someone… I forget who… from time to time encourages young scholars to carpe the heck out of the diem. The point is the same: get busy, have at it. Don’t wait for inspiration or passion to find you. Get up, get out, explore, find it yourself, and grab hold with both hands. (Now, before you dash off and get your YOLO tattoo, let me point out the illogic of that trendy little expression–because you can and should live not merely once, but every day of your life. Rather than You Only Live Once, it should be You Live Only Once… but because YLOO doesn’t have the same ring, we shrug and decide it doesn’t matter.)

              None of this day-seizing, though, this YLOOing, should be interpreted as license for self-indulgence. Like accolades ought to be, the fulfilled life is a consequence, a gratifying byproduct. It’s what happens when you’re thinking about more important things. Climb the mountain not to plant your flag, but to embrace the challenge, enjoy the air and behold the view. Climb it so you can see the world, not so the world can see you. Go to Paris to be in Paris, not to cross it off your list and congratulate yourself for being worldly. Exercise free will and creative, independent thought not for the satisfactions they will bring you, but for the good they will do others, the rest of the 6.8 billion—and those who will follow them. And then you too will discover the great and curious truth of the human experience is that selflessness is the best thing you can do for yourself. The sweetest joys of life, then, come only with the recognition that you’re not special.

              Because everyone is.

              Congratulations. Good luck. Make for yourselves, please, for your sake and for ours, extraordinary lives.

              • My fave line in the entire speech:

                “In fact, astrophysicists assure us the universe has no center; therefore, you cannot be it.”

    • Lol that is spot on!!!
      My stbx cheater for years was telling his mommy that I don’t cook often, I don’t clean, I am not a very good homemaker!!! These is the same garbage he told the counselor and I told him I front of the counselor : if I cook more and clean more will our marriage be better? I got no response but lots of anger and frustration!!! And by the way I am a good homemaker and feed my kids!!!

    • Awesome job. You beat me to it!

      Yeah, Pretty sure XW cheated on me because she was a narcissistic emotional toddler with the morals of a stray cat. But hey, I never got a reason so that’s just my guess at untangling the skein.

      There’s something to the sense of humor thing, but not necessarily as it pertains to the 10 commandments of rationalization listed above – she could pee her pants watching some poor schmuck get hit in the balls on “Jackass” or “Tosh.0″…but sit there stone-faced during something that actually resonated on a deeper level, like a Louis CK standup routine. I think you can tell a lot about a person by what they find funny.

    • 11.Money. The married OW intentionally targeted my X because she thought there was a pot of gold at the end of my husband’s (fill in the blank) … she was more than a little disappointed when she discovered the money was “asset protected.” Wish I could have seen her reaction when she learned her services were not going to be compensated!

      • I know an OW who thought she’d struck the jackpot when her rich married lover starting giving her expensive gifts. During their three years together, he bought her a condo, a car, jewelry, clothes – she was in her late 20’s and living the high life.

        Until her rich lover died, that is. Then his adult kids – all older than her – sued her for the return of all the affair gifts…and won. Apparently, the money for said gifts had not come from her lover’s largess, but from the inheritance he’d promised his kids.

        OW couldn’t believe they could be “so mean!” LOL!

        • I’m in the process of collecting bank documents highlighting all the money asshat spent entertaining his fuckbuddy over ten years. This is $ my kids and I are entitled to receive back from him even before settlement shit is analyzed. Last yr it was $5k. This does not include $ embezzled from his company to hook up at all the resorts and spas and fancy dinners bars, etc.. that he was expensing via work. But that’s like a Blue Jasmine type thing. If you saw that movie, you know outing the cheater in the workforce screws with your support amount.

      • Hah! I certainly think that money was a factor in OW’s pursuit of STBX. She’s been in and out of collections for years, filed for bankruptcy, etc. I thought that STBX would be smarter about picking up on this, but then realized that he’s shown me for the entire duration of our marriage that he LOVES spending money on people who don’t have it because it gives him extra charity kibbles.

        He gets to be the Knight in Shining Armor.

        Of course he’s entitled to cheat!

        • Bagging someone with money must damn near max out the kibbles for the cheaters. My XW left me for someone much more well-off than I am, after I worked like crazy (and probably too much, honestly) to provide.

          But then again I was too introverted, socially inadequate, and emotionally distant to be worthy of her too. Oh, and I didn’t change fast enough into the person she wanted me to be too.

          (last paragraph was an attempt at sarcasm…I know I have my share of issues, but the whole “introverts are boring” nonsense that my XW basically pulled does bad things to my blood pressure.)

          • CW – if I *ever* venture out in that dating thing again, which is doubtful, I’m going to be looking for an introvert next time.

            • I think that the money issue is a very interesting one. Money=power=Knight in Shining Armor has the power to rescue the Damsel in Distress. This dynamic means you need a Knight and you need a Damsel in Distress.

              My STBX loves being that Knight, and has enjoyed it since I was in grad school and he insisted I invite my friends over to dinner once a week. Grad students = poor, so he could demonstrate his largesse (pasta and salad ranking high on the largesse scale). OW has a history of financial problems, and clearly loves being Rescued.

              CW, it sounds as if your XW also bought into the same fantasy. Sure, you could have made well into the 6 figures per year, but you know? You could have made more. Or maybe you should have bought the house with both the tennis courts and the swimming pool or the yacht was not quite right. O the Humanity!

              Cheaters all have the same fantasy playbooks.

              I don’t buy the whole introverts are boring, either. I’m actually an extrovert. What that means is that I tend to get energized after being in social gatherings. Does that mean I’m good at meeting people? Nope. I don’t think my social skills are as good as those of many of the introverts I know. And they’re doing really cool things like finding new restaurants, going to folk festivals, art museums, etc.

              • kb,

                Thanks for the kind words. I’m no fan of stereotypes either, I think they make for convenient excuses when something goes wrong.

            • Thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure about dating either- There might be plenty of fish in the sea, but I need to figure out if I want to bait that hook first.

  • I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe having a spouse whose cheating on you could suck all the humor out of Ron White… for a while at least 🙂

  • I think I missed my chance while trying to fix my marriage for 1 1/2 years. I should have been playing practical jokes on her. You know, short-sheeting her bed in the guest bedroom, bucket of water balanced on top of the door, replacing her shampoo with Hair Remover…
    She would have laughed herself right back into my arms!

  • I’m not a Martha, I’m an Ashley!….

    While I can’t speak for all Ashleys out there, I abhor that site has my name. This Ashley isn’t a cheater! Not frivolous lawsuit: suing Ashley Madison because they are given me a bad rep by using my name! Tracy, can your hubs help me on that?!

    Reason #11: you’re name isn’t sexy enough (snort)

    They are rank right up there with “you forgot to remind me I wanted to have a glass of wine at Disney” which is what I got. Ugh! Gag me!!

    • LOL, yeah because that’s on everyone’s bucket list, getting a glass of Pinot at the magical kingdom!

    • He told his mother that, “I didn’t watch enough football with him”. Yea, that’s grounds for infidelity for sure.

      • Yeah, I got the “sports” thing too. Only he screwed his ho-workers at 5:30 am and was at his desk by 7:30… I don’t even want to think about what kind of “sports” they were in to. That someone (all in this case) would cheat on their spouses for 1 hour every two weeks with my husband and call that, uhmmm, anything is beyond me. “Kibble Light”?

  • “Annoying” behaviors? That’s part of marriage, or any long-term relationship. Every human has things about them that are annoying or weird or whatnot, little imperfections. That’s part of being human, and part of being emotionally intimate, as per marriage. You cannot have emotional intimacy without also being up-close to all your partner’s little quirks. It’s part of the package deal.

    If people think annoyances are reason to cheat, they’re either just making excuses (they know these are little things, but want an excuse to cheat), or they cannot be emotionally intimate, and therefore not marriage material (life skills FAIL).

    • Exactly. These assholes are just convincing themselves that marriage should be like dating, and when it’s not they’ll take the good parts of both as long as they can get away with it (marriage = stability and caretaking, dating = whorish sex/adolescent emotional sharing).

      • @lale: you hit the nail right in the head. My 49-year-old wife is living like it’s 1985. Oh, the crap I hear when she’s on the phone with her newly-reconnected ex- from almost 25 years ago! How they drank this much at this and that club, etc., blah blah blah.

        What a coward and fool to be willing to abandon me and our two kids for this dopamine rush. Isn’t it odd how, and in very sharp relief, the OM trumps me in the desirability and conversation and humor departments!? And she’s even blamed me for making such a big deal out of what is legitimately an emotional affair (sexting, webcam, hours long calls, etc.), YET SHE IS THE ONE INITIATING SEPARATION. Blameshifting indeed.

      • It is all part of the “Cheat Now and Dream up the Excuse as to Why Later Plan” On the fly they try to make something up & it is beyond lame…more in the category of Epic WTF Moments! Some of these I have read are from outer space, just sheer & utter nonsense.
        Mine said he did it because “It was Easy.” I am like WTF? I thought all those years he didn’t cheat was because he didn’t want to….not that he hadn’t come across something “easy” enough!! Funny now, at the time, heartbreaking. Who stole my husband & left me this asshole!! Alien Abduction??

  • When I asked her why she had chosen to cheat with her married coworker, my ex BPD wife of 25 years looked thoughtfully at me and said “He does something that you NEVER do…he sings in the car”…WTF???

    • I was always faithful to my ex. Know why?…Car singing. Somehow he just knew that Engine Running + Male Singing = Faithful Me.

    • that’s classic stupid shit cheaters say Don, hahahah. My ex literally cut me off from sex for years. Know what he told his mother as a reason he cheated? I didn’t shave my legs often enough, they were *gasp* hairy and it wasn’t sexy…fuck these stupid rationalizations. The irony is that she told me this AFTER he nearly shot me, she had just spent 30 minutes trying to get me to rescind the PO because he said he would never hurt me. Um, he almost killed me you idiot. To then go on about the cheating which I didn’t give a shit about by then was nuts. Anyhow, seriously, the cognitive dissonance of her doing this has never left me.

    • Well, you missed an opportunity to play an interesting “Pick me Dance” there, for sure. I mean, you didn’t immediate take to serenading the Princess as you drove her from place-to-place in her coach?

      That’s gotta be on the top of every woman’s list, for sure:

      1. Opens car doors for her.
      2. Serenades her with songs about her beauty and allure while motoring her around town.

      If us men only knew 🙂

  • The whole married dating thing is repulsive and nausea inducing. Extraordinary that anyone would actually want to survey these low life to see why they were lying cheaters. It is just another attempt to lay blame at the door of chumps. None of the reasons are good enough to betray someone you love – never were, never will be.

    Maybe we should conduct a survey on CL to find the 10 most irritating behaviours cited by chumps who were cheated on:

    1. Heartbreak
    2. Betrayal
    3. Deception
    4. Broken vows
    5. Life as you knew it ripped from its seams
    6. Abandonment
    7. Gas-lighting
    8. Pick me water torture
    9. Humiliation
    10. Cruelty

    How do they compare?

    • 11. Prancing around in skin-tight, flesh-colored leotard while some woman played flute, then posting video to YouTube. Oh wait, that’s just MY ex……

      But I certainly agree with the other behaviors. I would add:

      Financial devastation
      Physical/mental/emotional illness caused by stress
      Loss of home and possessions

    • The survey and “press release” are an effort to advertise their site. Trashley does this periodically. Unfortunately, HuffPo and others are willing to post the crap for the sake of page hits. This is really horrible journalism.

      I noticed they didn’t show the other reasons women say they cheat (besides annoying mates), but I resisted the urge to look for VM and help their page count.

      Anyhow, I think they’re actually looking for male clients with the stories. The survey makes the women look not crazy and actually easy to please – just have good manners and a sense of humor and you can get women to sleep with you. A guy who wants to cheat isn’t going to be thinking about how disordered someone is to be on the site in the first place.

        • I’m afraid I hate them. I don’t like to hate people, but if you’re running around doing something evil with no sign of remorse or changing your ways, it’s hard not to hate them. Anyhow I hate what they are doing.

          I pay attention and read the articles they put out, and I ended up noticing a pattern.

          They are very evil. No matter what they say about not causing affairs, they spend their time promoting them. Kind of like Joe Camel and the cigarette companies. Wish it could be illegal to advertise adultery.

  • Well done CL for sticking it to shallow manipulative women.

    Infidelity is an equal opportunity sucker punch.

  • “Put down your seafood fork and think for a minute. Cheating is BAD MANNERS. No, hit yourself with the seafood fork. You are bad! Bad! Bad!”



  • Interesting, that Ashley Madison was sued by an ex-employee, Doriana Silva, who was hired to type up over 1000 fake profiles of sexy women for the site within a three week period. She claims injury to her wrists and forearms by the extensive amount of typing in creating fake female members of the site.

    Ashely Madison is counter suing. I imagine the company wishes to maintain their “integrity” to their paying members. A website who promotes cheating and lying would not want their reputation damaged by lying to and cheating cheaters. Lol…lol…lol..

    Ashley Madison is a paying member website and that’s their source of income.
    It’s not surprising that there are fewer fake or real female members of this cheating website.

      • Don’t do it if you are even remotely considering divorce. At best, have a friend do it and if you must look, do it from a PC or device you do,not own (IP addresses of your stuff lead back to you ).

        Free advice from my lawyer friends.

    • OMGosh – you’re telling me this actually a hooker site? And, these guys are buying it? (or gals) ha ha ha – probably costing them more than the monthy membership fee. What a joke.

      • I think mostly it’s a fantasy site; most of the women don’t exist. The site makes its money off the membership fees the men pay. What a joke is right!

  • Hmm, I haven’t given the OWs, and there were several, much thought, as they’re essentially personas non gratas in the context, but I did pick up on one common theme they all had, and that was a lack of education and career. I know I will be criticized for this because I am about to make a hasty generalization, but from my experience the less educated the OWs, the more appealing they were to my ex. He likes them dumb and horny, ha ha. As for the women, I think they were hoping to move up on the socioeconomic ladder by sleeping with someone who could potentially give them a better lifestyle. So it was a much more calculated decision on their part. Maybe not so dumb after all?
    One OW was apparently constantly on the verge of being evicted and basically kept using sex in order to have her rent paid by ex. I wonder how many OWs are in the position that they “need” to prostitute themselves?

    • This applies in my case too. The ow husband is a teacher and musician, not a go-getter (so she said, he may be a lovely devoted dad), so as the wage earner, she went after her boss, my h. Cliche? She was also exhausted by 4 boys and a husband – too much testosterone – so she needed a sixth man to ease her mind, my h. She’s a hillbilly, serial cheater who was looking for professional credibility. She may lose her job as a result of all this, so not sure it’s working out for her. They’ve ruined my life, for sure.

    • Is it the less educated women were more appealing or more available and interested in moving up with him?

      • I think the great women at the front of the pack would not look twice at a married man. Trust me, this involved no effort on my h’s part. When he had to tell my teenagers, they named a bunch of women they thought it could be. Great, smart, attractive, together, single – and ones my son would have picked. When they heard who it was, they just said, “ew, why?”. Made no sense. Why pick a dirty pillowcase mouth breather? Because she’d have him.

        They each had gaping holes to fill and the universe brought them together. It has not ended well – her blatant stupidity post-affair is going to cost her family the bulk of its income. And if I ever bump into anyone in that industry, I will be first in line to bring her down. Boundaries are a huge part of this particular line of work (public health/mental damage) and she ignores them across the board. Karma is a much bigger bitch than I am though.

        • Someone on an earlier thread cite an article, I think? Supposedly it showed research that in general, the OW was a downgrade from the spouse in terms of looks, achievements, etc.

          • ” Supposedly it showed research that in general, the OW was a downgrade from the spouse in terms of looks, achievements, etc.”
            That’s so true in my case..she’s GROSS!!

          • Not so much in my case. I never finished college and ex’s AP had a college degree. I never made that much money at any job I ever had, and AP made TWICE what I ever made. I never owned a home; AP did. I didn’t have a full time job (I worked for my ex); AP did. I didn’t have huge breasts. AP does…


            The AP is a much, MUCH better match for my ex than I was. After all, my ex cheats…so does his AP. My ex lies…so does his AP. My ex loves female attention and his AP loves male attention. My ex is a hypocrite…so is his AP.

            If my ex and his AP reeeeeeally want to believe that they ‘stepped up’ from their partners, then who am I to try and change their mind? *evil grin*


            • Gypsy, the AP in my case is also well educated, very successful, and quite pretty (not more so than me, but not a downgrade in those ways). But she is a MUCH better match for my narc ex in other ways; she cheated on her first husband, leading to the end of her intact family. Then she hit on the ex big time, even before he gave her any ‘poor victim’ stories about the sad state of his marriage (NOT!).

              So yeah, both lying, cowardly idiots with no character and no care for their kids. Great match! I wish them every happiness! hahahahahhahahahha!

              Let’s face it, an OW/OM is ALWAYS a downgrade, because they’re willing to sleep with a cheater!

              • “both lying, cowardly idiots with no character and no care for their kids. Great match”

                Yep, the other women (the ones I know about – including the new wife) are all three highly educated; 2 of the 3 are very attractive and young. Yesm they are also a better match with exH – according to him (and to what I’ve observed) they all “hate kids” and are incredibly materialistic. Great fit for my embezzling money-hungry ex who walked away from our kids six years ago and hasn’t looked back. Soul-less trolls are best matched with other soul-less types. Shiver.

          • True in my case. The OW stocked shelves part-time at a retail store. I was the primary bread winner with a bachelor’s degree. OW was younger, but a heavy smoker, so she looked a lot older than me. OW was nothing like I had imagined her to be. I assumed she was a young, carefree, child-free, perky-boobed girl. Nope! She had twins as a teenager, her husband was in rehab, and her mother lived with her. The ex rather deal with all that shit and dysfunction than with me and a 2 year old.

      • Well, when the guy is near 60, he’s pretty much done all the ladder-climbing he’s going to do. But, in my case, the OW is heavily in debt and stbx is not. There is no doubt in my mind she was after support (she’s no spring chicken either) and he was too stupid to see what a gold-digger she is. Ha – jokes on her. He’s a tightwad and about to get much tighter after I’m done puckering his ass.

    • Same here. The ex was looking for someone dependent who would look up to him. I think he resented my independence and the fact that I wanted a (non-cheating) life outside of our marriage. Despite the fact that I indulged his hobbies and encouraged him to go out with friends or go LD to visit family, he expected me to be at home waiting like a good little servant and available to give him the attention (sexual or otherwise) he felt he deserved whenever he wanted it.

      He got that EXACTLY in the OW– she has no one in her life other than her children that I can tell, so no social life, no life outside the house (she’s not even from the area). She only has a HS education, and from what I know, outside of whatever CS she collects from her ex, she’s entirely dependent on my ex for everything: housing, health insurance, an income. I think the only things she brought to the marriage were her old car and her bad decorating taste. Despite the fact that her ex made more money than mine, I think she still viewed my ex as a KISA who would take her away from her “bad” marriage and STILL provide her with a comfy lifestyle.

      These two stellar people met each other on Ashley Madison, of course. They really ought to rename it “a dating site for bottom feeders.”

    • Yup. OW was looking to improve her lifestyle. And in a way she had, as the very porny mistress. Lots of travel. Lots of resorts, lots of fun dinners and outings. Her husband, a plumber, probably makes an equivalent salary. But they have NO children together, just his older kids from his first marriage….which she broke up.

      Yup. Asshat was a step up in education for her, as well as net worth. What she doesn’t know is that I built those assets and the fucking career as Team Asshat. I don’t focus on the T-chart, me vs OW, but if one did compare us, she’s a trade down. Asshat told me that. Like that’s another plus for me on his remorse chart.

      • ANC – mind told me she was a ‘trade-down’ too. I sort of took it as a compliment at the time? ha ha – doh.

  • My husband cheated because I had no money left to support us. He had to line up his next victim.

    • This is a really important point, and central to why most cheaters cheat, IMHO. At least the ones who are truly disordered. Because the disordered are empty shells without much in the way of real emotion or even self image, they need constant outside attention and feedback just to know they are alive. They are chronically bored and need endless, childish excitement. Cheating and lying provides a LOT of fun excitement to the cheater, and provides a great opportunity to feel extreme contempt and superiority to the chump they are fooling. And of course, the ultimate reason is: Because they want to and because they can.

      • Glad, you nailed that, that is our exes and why they did what they did. I am convinced there is an empty black hole inside of them.

  • Denial — it ain’t just a river in Egypt. Cheaters aren’t ever going to admit that, “Hey, I’m a fuck-up with zero integrity and a lack of character to boot.” Their immense sense of entitlement and need to project a mask of perfection prevents that. Instead, every mistake they make is ALWAYS someone else’s fault. And if they cheat, well, obviously that isn’t THEIR fault, either. It must be the CHUMP’S fault.

    That list of “flaws” makes me sick and makes me laugh at the same time. Such trivial bullshit. Why did these dizzy bitches MARRY the guy if he had “no sense of humor” or was so lousy in bed? Surely they went on at least a few dates prior to marriage, right? Why didn’t they suggest counseling or a quick lesson in basic hygiene if things were that bad once married? Well, duh! Because then they couldn’t blame the chump for THEIR whoring, cheating ways.

    Bitches cheat for the same reason assholes cheat. Entitlement, narcissism, lack of character and a never-ending-movie-filming-inside-their-head that is all about ME ME ME.

      • They would never answer those questions honestly. If they were asked “Why didn’t you just get a divorce first?”, I imagine the answers would have been like these:

        39% said “I thought he’d never find out.”
        28% said “I like my comfortable lifestyle and don’t want to work harder for it/have to get a job/have to downgrade my standard of living.”
        17% said “It’s exciting to be with two men at once; I love the rush!”
        16% avoided the question and instead trashed the BS

        None of them would say that they were being thoughtless, self-involved pieces of shit because they don’t think of themselves that way. My ex thinks that what he has done is no big deal. He doesn’t see that his behavior has devastated his children and that he continues to devastate them and alienate them from himself as he pushes on the campaign of being one happy family with the Owife and her kids. It just doesn’t occur to him because he’s happy (well, as happy as is possible for him), so everyone else should naturally follow suit.

    • “Entitlement, narcissism, lack of character and a never-ending-movie-filming-inside-their-head that is all about ME ME ME.”

      They are the actors in their one-man (or one-woman) play….everyone else, their spouses, their children, are just supporting bit players who can easily be recast with someone else in their roles. My ex would strike poses, spout the most adorable words while looking me deeply in the eyes, and then turn around and betray me awfully behind my back. What a sick loon.

    • Exactly. No difference in the reasons each gender cheats. They are disordered and like sex and excitement. And, they do not give a shit about who gets hurt. Orgasms trump children and spouse.

  • I often wonder what OW’s deal is in my case. STBX and her started an EA and then met up in real life and declared their “love” for each other. She had been living with her partner of 8 years, so technically she wasn’t married, but common sense says that it was as close to a marriage as possible.
    When STBX dumped me for her, I asked him what her deal was. All he said is that she “loved” him.

    Since then, I have been able to gather a lot of information about her and she is extremely accomplished (has a 2nd degree black belt, in the medical field, thin, young, pretty, etc.). So why would this woman cheat on her partner (I’m sure her excuse is that it was just a EA)? Can anyone speculate? Did she get bored or something?

    • Okay, there’s goes Monika’s theory that they’re mostly uneducated trashy whores… Some are not, obviously although I do think that she’s on to something. Have you seen the tv show cheaters? highly educated professionals also cheat and in the case of your STBX his OW being accomplished and all doesn’t mean she isn’t disordered.

    • EAs are just as devastating, if not more so. Anyone agrees? When Ive found out that ex discussed my health problems and fertility treatments I’ve gone through, I nearly collapsed from the feeling of betrayal. He told her every detail of my two miscarriages, how it effected me emptionally, how I needed to take that off from work, how I became depressed about it, all of the super intimate, super private details not even my closest friends have knowledge of. That’s an emotional affair for you, folks. You think your cheater just had sex, had an orgasm and went home then think again. Sex is usually the last part of it.

      • The only people who agree with you are the people who have gone through it or witnessed it first hand.

        People who have no experience with it disagree.

        There’s something oddly juvenile and tragic especially when there isn’t an ice cube’s chance in Hell of ever even being anything remotely “real”, and yet it’s tearing apart families.

      • Heartbroken, I completely agree with you. EA’s are horrible. The OW knows everything about you, everything about your marriage, everything about your kids, what makes you tick, your “bad traits” as your husband calls them, EVERYTHING! My stbx even shared family phrases and inside jokes with her. When I saw a text on his phone to her about a family inside joke. I exploded. It completely put me over the edge. My T basically said in an emotional affair, the wife becomes the mother figure – who will take care of him, the kids and everything else, while the affair partner takes the place of the wife. Completely true in my case. Yet asshole couldn’t understand why I filed for divorce.

        • yup, yup and yup. I had the joy of my ex having (at least one) EA, that got physical at their HS reunion (cliche much??) then another year and a half of EA. Meanwhile he was trolling Adult Fuck Finder and Trashley Mad etc, not to mention CraigsList, for local hookups. Barf.

          So yeah–she knew all about my life, its ups and downs and ins and outs–much of it not true–even worse, he spread the shit about our kid, who was an adolescent and was having the issues that kids do. Boy, if she ever got wind of that.. I’ve never told her that he shared all the deets of her depression etc. with his mistress Dr. Hoe. She doesn’t need to know that, it’s already bad enough; she knows enough.

          And he had a pet name for the skank, nothing he ever did for me. The final kick to the gut? We both used the (admittedly common) email sign off of xox…he used that with Dr. Hoe in his text affair. Wow did that ever make me realize my life with him was over.
          time rolls on…
          So just yesterday he emails to ask if we are sitting together during daughter’s graduation “because it would be easier”. I wrote back that I was sitting with my sister and the family of one of daughter’s friends, and “hadn’t I made it clear I wouldn’t sit with him? He was the one who decided we were not family any more, after all.”

          Assholes. They still want you around when it suits them, when it looks good in public, whatever. Fuck them My divorce is final today (thank the lord). I’m not sitting with any assholes I don’t have to….

          • The ea aspect is what breaks my heart. she knows way more about me than I’ll ever know about her. That he shared so much of my privacy with his ho is my big hurdle. Not only how shitty I was, he shared my successes with her. So what I accomplished on my own is tainted by their hillbilly scum. Not sure how I’m going to get over that.

            • And to me, it’s not just the lack of privacy–it’s that he has presented a tainted view of you to justify going to her, instead of working on it with you. Poor, martyr me, she’s so fucked up. Feed me kibbles.

            • “The ea aspect is what breaks my heart. she knows way more about me than I’ll ever know about her.”
              nic..that is so true. All I know about her is what I could dig up on the internet. The fact that she knows all about my kids’ lives and wishes them Happy Birthday on Facebook makes me want to puke my guts out. (I no longer look at was too hurtful) And who knows what he really told her about me? I’m sure it wasn’t nice, to say the least.

              • Since his OW was my best friend for 5 yrs, I confided a few things to her as a girlfriend. Boy, she must have been eating that up because he told me said some nasty things about me based on emails we shared together. Have no idea what those nasties were because I sure never talked about him with her – some kind of instinct had kicked in with me, even though he was going through the mean/cruel stages. Yeah, some men in general – basic complaints. Ripped my heart out to know they both were on the attack of me and just glad I didn’t record any of their convos.

          • Yeah, congrats on the divorce. Mine was supposed to happen last week but my STBX didn’t bring one document that was needed to proceed. So now I have to wait until next week. Ugh!

            • Thank you all (takes a bow). Chump Lady played no small part in getting my divorce mojo going, and my butt off the fence (even when I knew the marriage was over, I was strangely paralyzed).

              I am SO grateful. This site truly is a lifesaver. And as it has grown, all the new folks are also wonderful: a testimony to the site & it’s blogger-in-chief.

              Rings off to you, Tracy!

          • Good for you, NamedforVera, as someone once said on here: “you wanted out of this family, you’re out”. My oldest son is graduating from law school on Monday, and ex neither know, nor apparently cares (has not even asked), and certainly will not be in attendance.

          • Namedforvera, thank you so much for your post. I have a daughter who is graduating on Saturday night and I am so torn as to where I sit. Beside the stupid exh or not?
            Same as you, why would I sit next to him when he cheated, deceived and disrespected me and my girls.
            Damn it is so hard.
            I cannot wait to be free from the stupid exh.

        • That is exactly what I experienced. How interesting to hear your counselor verify that’s how my ex had come to think of me. It seemed that once out kids were grown he had no more need for my services!

    • I would guess that in her case the surface appearances are deceiving. She could be accomplished and thin but have mental health issues.

      The other thing that stands out is that she was living with a guy for eight years. Maybe she wanted her boyfriend to commit to her and when he didn’t, she started to look for someone else. Maybe her boyfriend loved her, but wasn’t financially stable. Who knows, maybe she really wants to have a baby and sees your husband as the ticket to motherhood. Ugh.

    • Yes, I can see that OW was looking for husband material. STBX is 11 years older than her and her partner was about the same age as her (27 yrs old).

      • Although, of course, there’s a problem with thinking already-married men are the best husband material. You only get a cheater.

  • “They never name these things Cheryl Schultz. ” Think I’m gonna die from laughter. Well done, CL.

  • They also don’t name them anything TOO erudite, ’cause then the lumpencheateriat wouldn’t get it. Why not “Emma Bovary” or “Belle du Jour” or at least “Vittoria Milano”?

    Check out the awful writing on the Victoria Milan site:

    “With Victoria Milan, either a simple online flirt or a full-fledged real life affair is possible – not to mention everything in between. No need to feel any pressure to do any more than you want to. Some users are looking for the innocent online flirt to spice out their everyday lives…while others are seeking a real-life passionate affair with like-minded.
    It’s your affair, Your choice.”

    But it gets the message across — it’s YOUR choice, not your dumb-ass spouse’s or your over-demanding children’s.

    • Spice OUT? Is that when you sprinkle cinnamon and nutmeg everywhere? You’re spicing out your everyday life?

      “…with like-minded.” Like-minded what? Galapagos turtles? Rubberbands?

      Excuse me while I go sprinkle oregano on my couch and basil in my bathtub.

      • Yeah, if any of those idiots had ever read Madame Bovary, they would know what happens to unsatiated cheaters… bankruptcy and black goo spilling from their mouths as the ending hallmarks of their selfish lives.

      • “Excuse me while I go sprinkle oregano on my couch and basil in my bathtub.”

        Burn sage to clean the bad vibes, and sprinkle cayenne pepper/tabasco sauce in his jock strap….that’s spice things “out”…

    • and strangely, so many of the cheateriat are….lumpen. (Lumpen in this sense meaning lowest of the low…) A+ to ANR.

  • I don’t think it’s a coincidence that “Victoria Milan” is a verbal mash-up of the city of Milan (center of fashion and outward appearances) and one of the most famous places in that city, Galleria Vittorio Emanuele (basically the world’s first shopping mall).

    “Victoria Milan: Where appearances are all that matters, what’s underneath doesn’t count, and you can treat people like shoes and handbags.”

  • There is no justifying cheating – period. Only someone that doesn’t comprehend the damage it does can even suggest justification.

    What it comes down to is cheaters are cut from different cloth than the rest of us rule followers.
    They want what they want when they want it and they’re going to find a way to get it – and blame you for your shortcomings. Oddly enough the same shortcomings that “make” them cheat are the same ones you’ve had since day one – or worse THEY created in you and now suddenly they don’t like you so they want out.

    Ugh. I heard that I wasn’t spontaneous more than once.
    Well, I haven’t really been a big risk taker but on top of that SOMEone has to be the adult in this situation. If you’re going to be a big baby then I’m surely going to look like a rigid shrew.

    I’m having a crappy day/week so there it is.

  • As a man that was cheated on & stayed, its bullshit all of it and you cant take it serious I dont. Its simple why my NPD princess cheated she is, was & always will be a NARC & its all about her, not US not family,,,, its always about her & her shit. I like to call her my princess poser,, you know the type poor me look at me big smile for the camera its all about her life her job and her CONNECTION.
    Sigh yea yea I know I know I am a chump, but I cant hold the title of the bestest daddy in the world if I am only there 2 days a week or whatever some judge tells me I have to do. Sorry I just cant do that, I refuse to be the bestest PART TIME daddy in the world and have another scum bag fuck face try to sing, tell, stories go to ball games the beach etc etc,, fuck that its my job & he or she cant have it until I am dead in the ground. So I do what I have to do. I stay and try harder for my family.
    I understand why she cheated & it has fucking zero to do with that list. I only caught her once but my spidey sense tells me it was not her first time. I just hope its the last,,,,,,,,,, for my boys.

    • Hugs to you. I left my cheater and about to start the process of divorce. The child custody scares the crap out of me. I’ve not been away from my boys for more than a a handful of nights at most their whole lives. The thought of missing out on anything with them makes me so angry. I had to leave because my husband was always on the verge of narcissistic rage and I feared he would harm me. I wanted to go anyway, there was nothing to stay for, but now I’m going to lose precious time with my boys. It’s like he stabbed me in the heart with the cheating and everything that comes after is another twist, digging the thing deeper. It sucks.

      • Hugs back hang in there. Yea you have to get out dont blame yourself for one second & it sounds like when your kids are older they will make a wise choice and not go to their fathers.

        Yea that rage she would get it I didnt notice until the MC pretty much called her on the carpet with having NPD. WHO ME A NARC ?? !! . Now I look back she had some really cray cray moments & I just passed it off. I should have saw the signs but stupid me didnt 🙂

      • MichaelD I know how you feel. The thing I resent most of all about my cheater and the divorce is that I’m the one who put the majority of time in raising our boys, and now his decisions have cost me precious time with my them and my future grandchildren. The kids now have to split their time between the two of us, plus share time with the in-laws. Plus my ex makes more $$ and can fly the kids for vacations, etc. that I can’t. It really sucks to be the faithful chump and have to pay such a price for the cheater’s decisions. Not saying I was perfect, but definitely didn’t instigate the issues that blew up our family. Anyway, am trying so hard to let it all go. There aren’t that many days we have on the earth and I don’t want to spend the remainder of mine being miserable over events that are out of my control. The best thing we can do to help our children is to be happy with our lives.

        • I feel the same way. I’m so upset that I’m forced to be excluded from experiences/activities in my daughter’s life.
          And ditto on the vacation thing.
          And housing.

          • Not to mention the time the kids actually spend with the OW/OM. I hate the thought of here anywhere near my children..the stupid skank.

      • I personally dont like they way you put it she is still a person and the mother of my kids but yes I stayed. Its a work in progress but at least I know what I am up against NPD.

            • Its ok I have thick skin and its a legit question maybe not asked with taste but I understand the anger and why they would ask. I choose not to degrade thats abuse & not for me.

              • M, she doesn’t deserve you. And you could meet a lovely lady one day, have you thought about that?

            • I agree! It seems to me Micheal has a very valid concern that divorce is not in the best interest of his sons. That is quite a testament to the love he has for his children. NMY, are you the same person who previously (and unnecessarily) criticized Micheal’s grammar? If so, why are you here?

          • You all might be giving me a little tough love to open my eyes and I thank you but I dont look at any women as a whore. I just dont look at people that way sorry.

            • Michael,
              I’m curious but did you talk to a lawyer yet about the kid situation? I’m lucky I don’t have kids w/ my X but I know what a nightmare this is . . .

              • Nope I did not. But I am not a little kid I understand my options and I chose this path and I am not bitching one bit about it. I may bitch about what she did to me but never the path I am taken. If that fork in the road pops up again and I pray it never does then I might have to change the path. It does not make me feel any better or help the situation by degrading her or abusing her. Sorry I just dont see how it helps a already hard situation.

              • I never suggested abuse or degrading her . . . just speaking to a lawyer on the down low. lol

                Well, Good luck with your situation. I wouldn’t with that shit on anybody. 🙁

              • I understand Rumble 🙂 I know you didnt i think the thread got jumbled up 🙂 All good ,,, ,, ,

              • Pssst . . . (gentle prodding) At some point, go talk to a lawyer just to see what they say. 😉 It’ll help you get a starting point and you’ll know what YOUR rights are. It doesn’t mean you tell her or have to do anything; you’re just going on a fact finding mission. There – I’m done telling a complete stranger what to do. 🙂

                Hey, all us chumps have done stupid shit during this. Every single one of us. Everybody takes their own path to happy.

                This shit is a blast isn’t it!? 😛

              • Thanks Rumble,, really thank you. A blast hmmm IDK. I mean I did find this site lol got yelled at for my God awful spelling and other shit but I also got some shit off of my chest and some good advice so yea ok all good 🙂

              • I got reprimanded a few times for relentless swearing, but fuck it. Ha! See what I did there?

                Hang in there. Chump Nation is a great place, it helps you machete through the bullshit. 🙂

              • Stick my nose in…months before I was ready to get ready to think about being ready to file… I did do the free 1/2 hour check-in with a lawyer I knew and trusted. Just to find out what the options are in my state. It was good to know. My kid is older, so I didn’t have custody issues. but, I found out about other family law statutes that had recently been passed and are not really “settled law” because of their newness–still, really good to have a sense of the scope of my options. More information is always better than less, and in our collective situation, it does not make us disloyal one bit (my opinion.) Good luck MichaelD.

            • Thanks Micheal, the word “whore” is used so liberally here, it often sounds sophomoric.

              • I agree, Texan. I’ve found myself using it to death and I’m really bored with it. We need to come up with a better word. I’m always trying to upgrade my new dictionary.

              • I don’t like any of the degrading terms for women myself, none of them. An asshole, is an asshole regardless of gender. Or a jerk is a jerk if you prefer no swearing.

              • Yeah I forgot who the “grammar control” is, but that is some crap to worry about when you heart is broken, you are typing through tears and now you have to make sure you use the right word, spelling, punctuation, etc.? I think there might be room on that list above for another cheater excuse-anal excessive criticism. I wouldn’t cheat but I’d walk! I remember when I first saw that, I almost didn’t come back, I was feeling that low.
                Chumps have enough problems!
                But Rumblekitty swearing (or anyone else) who cares? This is a time where swearing is warranted, swear words were made for situations like being cheated on!

    • Michael, I have real advice for you because I am going through this NOW. Depending on what state you live in, you can get very good custody if there are no flies on you. My X wants 50% custody and I am fighting and fighting to keep him from having so much because of drinking/drugs/aspergers. However, if I did not have TONS of witnesses to coroborate what I’m saying, he probably would get considerable custody. Men get more custody than you think in many states. So, your fear is only getting two days a week. Depending on the age of your kids, and unless your wife has serious, serious dirt on you, you would probably get more. I would 1) see a lawyer. Lots of them give free consultations. 2) Start gathering hard (written/video) evidence of any of her bad behavior and 3) If you ask for a separation, ask her for two days to start with. It’s amazing, because cheaternarcs LOVE me time. If you start with two days, she will probably love the time off, and will let you extend to three or four days a week.

      • Thank you Rose & i understand. I choose to stay and fight for my family. Dirt on me LOL, unless you consider going to AA dirt lol 🙂 But for real,, my farts might smell & I love to watch sports but I still hold the car door. Yup it hurts really bad & some days it fucking sucks & I dont know if it will work or if she will cheat again,,,,, but every time I think I have it bad or fall into the self pity resentment shit hole I read about another person or family that has it worse. I just cant do it to my kids maybe when they are older but not now. I love being the bestest daddy in the whole world :),,,so I work and yes she works too,, is it perfect ??? Fuck no the farts still smell 🙂

        • Michael – I don’t mean to gang up on you and I commend you for having the selflessness to put the interest of your children first, BUT please, please, please go get a legal consultation. Take it from me, it may not be your choice in the end. She may decide to have another affair down the road and decide SHE WANTS THE DIVORCE. Then that choice will be crammed down your throat and you won’t be prepared. If you go get a legal consultation now you will be better prepared. Al lawyer can give you a strategy and information on taking little steps that may be necessary to document how awesome of a dad you are and have that ammo to battle her for custody down the road. It could be things like always taking the kids to their doctor’s appts (without her), going to all the parent/teacher conferences, coordinating playdates, being the parent that has the relationship with the piano teacher or the sport coach, etc. Please inform yourself and prepare yourself for the sake of your children.

          • Thank you Bella & thank you all. I will consider,,, from what you all say I have to leave that option on the table. Thanks again 🙂

            • I understand and support your decision to stay as a method to put your kids first. Fathers can get good custody agreements, but family court and the circus of divorce proceedings is not entirely predictable. It is also possible to lose a great deal in terms of time with children. Finally, if a parent is a narcissist, then the children will be subjected to manipulation that will exceed your imagination as the divorce unfolds. It is a lose/lose situation. And that is what frustrates so many of us. You are doing your best–and that is admirable and something we should all celebrate.

              Nonetheless, I echo the advise that you begin documenting evidence that you are a great father. Keep a journal that includes a note on every school event you attend, times you run the carpool, the birthday presents you went out and purchased, nights you made dinner, dentist appointments you took the child to, etc. Make sure that you are photographed doing lots of stuff with your kids. Most importantly, keep this material privately. Print it off and move it to your office every two months or store it on a hard drive (or 2) that is easy to keep hidden. If your wife does decide she wants a divorce for whatever crazed reason, you need to be able to come out swinging. If she never wants one, you can have a great set of memories to look back on 20 years from now–because the journal should not include any accounts of your wife’s failures–it should just be about you and your parental dedication.

              • Michael, please do as Eilonwy suggests. If your narc wife decides to divorce you, the first thing she’ll do is file for full custody of the kids so that she can get lots of child support. If you go to AA, she’ll try to use your former drinking problem as evidence that you are a bad guy. Depending on your local court system, you could lose precious time with your boys. If you have evidence of years of being the good parent, your case will be much stronger if/when the divorce happens.

              • I haven’t filed for child support yet (waiting for ex to move out in a few weeks, still gives me money voluntarily) but I wonder if I should file anyway to look better to the courts? I am totally afraid that he will try to file for full custody and I may lose based on the fact that I don’t have a job- is this possible?

              • No, Anna, it’s not possible to lose custody because you don’t currently work. BUT some Cheaters do ask for full custody, because they don’t want to pay support, and while they’re unlikely to get it, it’s an unpleasant process to go through. You have to protect yourself!

                You MUST consult a lawyer NOW. Many give a free half-hour consultation, which would give you the basics of your rights and how to protect them. Otherwise, check out law clinics run by law schools, or lawyers referred through women’s support services, or beg, borrow or steal the money to see one (OK, don’t steal it – that won’t look good during the custody hearing 😉 !) Find out what you’ll need to do to protect your right to as much custody as will seem reasonable in your jurisdiction, and start doing it – NOW.

                Keep in mind that you CANNOT trust this person to have your or your kids’ best interest in mind – if he were going to do that, he wouldn’t have cheated to start with. So you don’t have to be aggressive, legally, but you MUST protect yourself and your time with your kids!

              • Thanks for advice, I HAVE reached out to a few attorneys seeking free consultation and so far NONE called me back. It’s been days. I have considered reaching out to legal aid for advice but I don’t have much hope for that either. It seems as unless you fork up some major cash, no one will help you. Funny you mention not to underestimate the cheater because mine has already made the threat of going for full custody so he doesn’t have to pay child support. He’s smart enough to not put this threat in writing because I’ve tried to get that out of him too. I feel so anxiety stricken right now. He’s a liar, cheater and a sociopath. I have no idea what else he can pull.

    • I am the guy in what could be your shoes and it is NO FUN!! My narc ex-wife cheated w/the most “unlikely” chap in the world – and our kids are devastated! She moved out for five months after D-Day and admitted the kids were better off with me. Then it seemed almost on a whim – she “changed her mind again!” and here in TX, that’s about all it takes is to go into court, wave your hand “I’m over HERE Judge and I’ve decided I want to be a Mommy after all – and the Primary Care parent at that!” and that was all it took. I was out and she was “IN Charge!”

      I see my kids every 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekends. She has done her best to keep them from me. She would rather pay a baby sitter than let them be with me – just to spite me – and I made it so she can easily afford to do so. The mother who became so detached she didn’t attend our son’s 5th Birthday Party and then wouldn’t even come and get the kids on Mother’s Day weekend after we separated 4 years ago, and she asked me to take them again this year as she was “going out of town” with her latest douche bag. Which by the way, it looks like he has officially moved into our stunning house.

      What a life? I never realized how Unoriginal she is until I came to this site and began reading like a freak. We have an older daughter with Special Needs, who is neglected by her mother and who will NEVER understand why her world was torn apart, and a younger son, who is so distraught by his mother’s antics that he is now in counseling and is frankly “not doing well!” in school or out of school. He has been asking me when he can “talk to the judge” because he’d like to live with me…

      To all the people who say MichaelD is wrong – you should see what my family – really the KIDS – are having to deal with! It’s WORSE than what I describe here, much, much worse and I currently have no solutions for this mess. Hopefully in time, the kids will be living with me full time once again, but for now it is excruciatingly painful. People who know my story think I should write a book, or at least a script for a Lifetime Movie… I’m not sure it’s that “Incredibly Baaaaad” but it’s definitely been a wild ride. I wouldn’t wish what my kids are going through on anyone.

  • There should be a Chump dating site! Except then cheater narcs would sign up and prey on us because they know we are selfless and would pay attention to their needs. Still though, its a good idea. Plus we already have a name

  • I was working 3-4 jobs to support our family of six while she didn’t work and never had to for over 20 years. “She wasn’t getting the attention she thought she deserved”. So…this made ME a bad husband. I think her cheating made HER a shittier wife by far.

    Now she’s working full time for the first time in her life at the age of 42. When she bitches about money, I know for fact that every other weekend when I have the kids, she can work another job. Keep working baby!

  • On post d-day I spent quite a lot of energy on search engines why women cheat, I even read the short book “infidelity of women” which was quite interesting. Written by a female cheater, and she claims to have surveyed hundreds of her like-minded whores. But there is one obvious flaw to this “research”: the pool of those surveyed are all women who cheated, and are therefore by nature are all narcissists or the disordered, concerned only with their own pleasure. I look above at the posts from our dear chump ladies and none of the members here are likely to wander off to another man because of these silly littly traits that all people possess. Our chump ladies honour their vows, put up with much crap and remain dedicated. So I refuse to believe that all women risk cheating on their spouses because of lack of humour from their husbands, quite the contrary here at chump nation.

  • The way I see it, there are no reasons on that list that justify cheating. If a person is unhappy they should either attempt to address the issue with their partner, enter marriage counseling if they can’t work it out between themselves, or ask for a divorce so they can look for someone more suited to their needs. Cheating is just a form of escape from facing truths about yourself, and/or your contribution to problems in the marriage.

    BTW, I saw this questionnaire for “What Kind of Unicorn Are You?” and thought it was perfect for Chump Nation. A friend of mine drew the cartoons. Just wanted to share…

    • Apparently, I’m a unicorn in denial.

      Congratulations! You might not know it yet, BUT YOU ARE A BEAUTIFUL AND PERFECT UNICORN. It’s ok, you’ll accept it someday, and on that day a million rainbows will burst forth from your body and off you’ll go on your merry unicorn way!

    • Apparently I’m a Rainbow Unicorn! Who Knew?!

      You wonderful, perfect, transcendently magical rainbow unicorn! You’re all the magic in the world combined into one shining, perfect, rainbow beacon of hope. All the other unicorns want you at their unicorn parties!

      LOLOLOLOL!!! Don’t forget to invite me to the next Unicorn party!

      • Hey I’m a unicorn who is
        gorgeous, majestic creature of magical flight. You’re so awesome, it isn’t enough to just have a perfect unicorn horn, you also need wings! Sometimes your other less cool unicorn friends who don’t have cars bum rides off you, but hey, that’s alright, because you can fly.

        Hey I’m having a unicorn party and it’s going to be a sleepover with lots of popcorn, lollies, soft drink, giggling, cry baby movies but you have to visit unicorn land down under…

        Bellzero the happy happy unicorn lol

        • I am an INVISIBLE Unicorn: You rare and awesome unicorn! You can get away with anything, because you’re invisible, and everyone is jealous of your invisibility. You could rob a bank if you wanted to, but you probably won’t, because you’re a unicorn.


  • My ex actually had a very good sense of humour. Maybe that’s why I didn’t cheat? Rolling my damn eyes.

    • My ex is a freaking stand-up comic. He can be funny as hell. Unfortunately, along with his goofy sense of humor is an entrenched immaturity (still there at age 44) and a perfect ease with lying. I would gladly have traded some of his humor for more maturity, self-awareness and honesty on his part.

      • Mine too, incredibly quick and hilarious sense of humor, could easily do standup….and could lie just as easily and naturally.

        • Mine too! He could expertly mimic and quote scenes out of a movie, either just seen or from years ago. He always had me laughing til my gut hurt. Definitely a gift of humor. Not to mention photographic memory, precise recall of dates our dogs and cats were born and died – even down to when they had their last rabies show w/o looking at a sheet. Other people’s b’days. wow – just a true magician impressing everybody. Of course, HE was the cheater so it doesn’t apply here. She must be so awed by his enormousness! Hell, I’ve got a much bigger and louder belly laugh than she ever will.

  • My ex-husband lacked a sense of humor, lacked good manners, didn’t care about his appearance and had poor hygeine, was not particularly successful or have thrilling life plans, didn’t pay attention to social obligations, was a mama’s boy, and was made stingy look like a stroll through the park. So that means. . .

    . . . He cheated on me.

    I think the so-called “survey” is a crock. Basically, it is asking a crazy person for a linear, logical explanation to illogical behavior.

  • I had a friend. She was a serial cheater/flirt/casual flinger. I knew her in my twenties as we lived and shared a house in the same city. There were always dramas surrounding her. Me, and others who knew her always made excuses for her cheating (it was boyfriends, not husband then) and casual shagging as she claimed to have ‘Daddy Issues’. Her father abandoned her when she was ten so this was like her ticket to fuck around as she was always looking to fill that gap (ahem) in her life. As time went on I urged her to get counselling to deal with her issues. She never did.

    Twenty years and two husbands later she is still fucking around. I told her 18 months ago, as she was contemplating another affair on her chump husband, to stop this shit and get her act together. Tried to emphasise the hurt and destruction she would cause. She was taken aback as I am usually so understanding and listen to her woes. She hasn’t spoken to me since. I was really hurt but she obviously does not want someone to speak truthfully to her. I felt like the bad person for ages but now I realise my tolerance for this shit is zero.

    She knew I’d been cheated on and claimed to have empathy but now I know she had none.
    It sound silly and I know she’s toxic but I feel so let down by her.

  • I was told “she listens to me”, “well you’re on your phone all the time!”, ” you don’t dress sexy for bed!” and when I asked how would he like his daughters to be treated like this and reminded him about how angry he was when his sister was being treated like this, he said,” We see things differently.” Complete with shark eyes! Would have been nice to know we see things differently during the 5 years we dated, 12 years of marriage, 5 children born,2 deployments, countless underways, 9 moves, including the last one that has me stranded in Hawaii!
    Fucking trifling selfish assholes!!

    • Omg, Sweet, you’re in the same place I was. My stbx (Army dirtbag) cheated on me while we were stationed in Hawaii. Thank goodness we had just got out taxes back when I found out or I’d have been stuck there too. Paradise? More like living hell. I stuck by him through 3 combat deployments and one Guam deployment. When he was in Guam, he found this new woman and came home treating me like shit. It’s a freaking nightmare and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. There are no good avenues to help military spouses dealing with infidelity out and it sucks. Please let me know if you need anything or just to commiserate. It’s been 3 months since dday and I got off that island and some days it feels like day one. Super big hugs to you.

  • “Projection”, as CL said is the key to this.

    I just wonder if the survey is even real. When you see how much research and investment goes into marketing and sales, I would speculate it would be easier to employ an expert in market research and sales, who knows what these particular people respond to, and target that.

    Let’s face cheaters aren’t a superior intelligent life form. At best, there of the same intelligence as others. But with less morals, and selfish priorities. How easy would it be for a commercially driven business ( as these marriage dating sites are,excuse me while I vomit ) to target these self centred jerks.

    A bit of research would show what a self centred, entitled selfish arsehole wants and responds to. Then just feed it to them as survey results, so as to make them feel as though their self centred thoughts are justified, because others feel them too.

    It’s playing narc’s at their own game. Feeding cheating narcs lots of ego kibbles, and cashing in on their credit card at the same time. Marketing genius! Gee, if I didn’t have a spine, and morals , there could be an easier way to make a living.

    Just my thoughts.

    • Kraft, I think you are absolutely right. I doubt this “survey” is real, outside a market manager’s office. I can’t picture an actual cheater taking this survey, because it requires an admission that she IS a cheater. Considering the lengths these people take to deny that reality, it seems unlikely many of them would answer a survey based on the reality that they are admitted adulterers.

      Kraft hit the nail on the head. This “survey” is to make cheaters feel better, by giving all the bogus reasons they all spout as to why they cheated. It reassures the cheater that she isn’t so bad, because look! all these other women are cheaters too and it is all the fault of their boring, unfunny, smelly, workaholic husbands! A clever marketing move based on understanding how the self-absorbed, entitled, twisted reality, narcissistic mind of the cheater works.

  • Just had to laugh….

    “Ashley Madison is a plucky real estate agent with a fondness for garter belts under her business attire. Seduce her right and she’ll go spread eagle at the title and loans.”

    The place where we did the closing on our house was American Eagle Title. Though our real estate agent’s name was Roy and I’m pretty sure he didn’t wear garter belts under his business attire.

  • To quote Sojourner Truth, “Ain’t I a Woman?”

    At any given time in a 28 year relationship, 25 of them married, my STBX may have exhibited any of the things on this ridiculous list and I didn’t cheat on him. I would have laughed at anyone who even suggested cheating as a solution to anything on that list. Nag him? Sure. Cuss him out a few times until I realized it would never change? Of course. Up and leave him if I got fed up? Possibly. Cheat on him? Betray his trust, perhaps wound him irreparably? Nope, not, never. Who even thinks up asinine crap like this as a reason(s) to cheat? In the words of another brilliant woman, “What the Fuckity-Fuck!” Did these women meet these men and marry them the same day? That’s the only way that the bullshit on the list would not have been totally or partially self-evident.

    First of all, the entire idea of a “married dating site,” is simply ludicrous. As someone mentioned above, and as I told my STBX for most of our marriage, “if someone wants to keep dating all sorts of people, they should not get married. Hire a cook and maid and be done with it.”

    Second of all, if someone annoys you, you tell them that they annoy you and why. You talk to them about ways in which they might annoy you less. They will probably tell you things that annoy them about you. (What, you say? Cheaters aren’t perfect?! They may actually have equally or more annoying characteristics?! How could that be?!) Then there might be some effort to correct the behavior and effect some compromise.

    My STBX gave as a reason for cheating that I didn’t “dress sexy for him all the time when I was home.” Really? Even when I was cleaning the toilet and mopping the floor (because I did practically all of the housecleaning practically all of the time) – I was supposed to wear a see-through nightie and high heels for that? Or was that when I was supposed to be wearing the naughty school girl outfit?

    I’ve given up trying to understand the brains of these cheaters because the only way what they say they believe makes sense is if you have as many holes in your head as they apparently do. This is no longer even untangling a skein – this is looking for sustenance in a vast wasteland. Nothing to find there. Move along.

    • I loved dressing up sexy! I’ve always worked out so I look forward to rewarding myself occasionally when the few opportunities that came up to dress-up in my come-fuck-me-boots. Show a leetle cleavage, short skirt (helps to be short when you’re old like me) and pretty cool tops. Did he ever once really see me? Nope. Seriously not. Those thoughts of the rejection for that many years is what’s trying to keep me going through another bad week. He never found me attractive I guess – never got great sex after a cool evening of hot dancing. Guess he passed out from drinking. I just give up. Thought I tried it all.

  • Of course, we’re all amused and aghast at just how trivial any of these excuses are.

    Some of us had great sex with our Xs; others not so great. Some of us had outrageously funny Xs–the life of the party types; others had Xs who thought they were funny, but….

    And on it goes.

    However, in a healthy relationship, if one spouse feels as if they’re being annoyed by the other spouse’s behavior, the first thing to do is raise that point in a non-confrontational way. Healthy people work out compromises.

    But sometimes there really are deal breakers, and it may be that you just can’t live with someone who absolutely never, ever gets the jokes you make. Or that you can’t live with someone whose idea of humor involves a significant amount of farting. Or that you really, truly need someone who wants to have sex at least three times per week instead of once every three weeks. These are things you can’t work out, and they make you miserable.

    That’s why there’s divorce.

    The cheaters cheat because they get cake and kibbles.

    • I wanted to throw in my 2 cents and say that maybe my asshole is of a special kind because when asked about his reasons he simply said “because I wanted to.” I think this hurts more than any other elaborate excuse.

        • Is that sociopathic? My therapist says it’s honest and I should be grateful, but I still wish he bothered to come up with something I’d rather hear like that he fell in wuv or something stupid like that. So basically “he wanted to”, he felt an attraction to her that he couldn’t resist and I was neglecting him sexually. If that’s not an ultimate fuck you I don’t know what is :(((

          • Anna I think it’s sociopathic. I will disagree with your therapist. Honest would have been more like: We’ve been married for x-years and I don’t want to be married anymore. I want us to be divorced.

            Each time my sociopathic ex (with something of a dx by therapist, even though the therapist was still conned by the ex to some extent) cheated, he turned his back on our marriage, our vows, our children, and his own integrity (its existence is debatable). Each time he told me “I don’t know why, it just wanted to.” And the poor baby got into trouble first in almost every case online because he was “bored.” Each time he wanted to get me back he turned on all of the lies and excuses in the book, ending with “our children and I really love you, I don’t know why I do what I do. I have a compulsion.” But it all boiled down to “he wanted to.”

            I’m not grateful. I don’t know what your therapist is thinking but I sure don’t agree. Of course it hurts! I’m grateful that the ex finally walked out for one of his babes. I was sunk into his trap and wasn’t successful at getting out. This I’m grateful for — he finally left and I knew I had to file.

          • “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.” ― Maya Angelou.

            With reference to the big picture here, your therapist is right.
            (All cheaters should be so honest!!)

            The man told you point blank who he REALLY is. And that knowledge provided you with an all expense paid and stamped ticket OUTTA THERE….with NO regrets.

  • To be fair, the survey was put up by the cheating website. They would only ask people for reasons that made them look good because they want to get people to sign up for their services.

  • I’d like to hug all of the male chumps here, but since I can’t — Here’s an old Michael Penn song that I love. The emotion seems so dead-on to me — makes me wonder if he was really chumped.

    You all deserved better. You still deserve better.

  • Cheryl Schultz? That’s an insult to all the good Germans out there (me included, well, sort of, I’m 1/8 German). Thank goodness there’s no cheating site by that name!

    • Well, I’m part Polish/Ukrainian – how about my G’dma’s name (changing the first for anoyn) – who would have broken her husband in the knees with a skillet if he tried that on her –
      BabushkaZowtiak? (no offence to Babushkas’ out there – I can dress like the best of them!)
      Yes, her last name is real. Yea – that’ll really bring in the swingers.

      • Polish Ukrainian here! I keep telling myself we come from a good stock. If you live on the east coast, come out to our chump meetup in June!

        • Anna – love to! Unfortunately, I couldn’t be further away – west side on the Pacific. No offence, but my grandparents (both sides) immigrated all the way to Alberta/Montana and I just took my generation a little further west – over the Rockies to the left coast. I think the folks were tired and must have run out of energy and just sat there in the prairies from then on. 🙂

          • And, I agree – I got a lot of Chutzpa from Granny. And, no – as an atheist survivor of WW1-WW2 – she probably wouldn’t care to know that that means.

            • Also bitte. Ich bin halb Deutsch und es macht mir nichts aus! Und wenn man denkt dass Deutsche Menschen Holzklotzen sind? Ist es nicht besser ein Holzklotz zu sein und nicht ein betruegennen Arschloch?

        • I’m sure you’re from good stock, but as it happens my cheater is Polish. Good stock is good, but good character is better.

            • My comment went over everyone’s head. I come from good stock- means Eastern European women are known to be strong minded and no-nonsense. Your cheaters being polish is irrelevant, they’re obviously assholes in every culture.

  • Hmm. Funny thing, once I discovered I had been cheated on, I opened my eyes to my ex’s many flaws. In addition to being dishonest and disrespectful, he was guilty of numbers 4, 6, 9 and 10. Interesting that I overlooked so many flaws until I realized he had undermined the entire marriage–what was tolerable became unbearable.

    • Ditto. One reason that reconciliation isn’t possible is that now he can’t do anything right. If he does something “right,” then I’m looking for his ulterior motive, as he’s operated like that for quite some time, and I only discovered this once I found out about the affair.

    • ” I overlooked so many flaws until I realized he had undermined the entire marriage–what was tolerable became unbearable. ”

      Jade – thank you, you just nailed it for me. This is what I’ve been trying to express to myself for a while now. The laziness, the selfishness, the cranky, bad-tempered behaviour? All stuff I accepted because no-one is perfect, and I have my own flaws. I balanced his negatives against his positives – his love for his children and family, the fact I could trust him and knew that he would do anything for us, the companionship and shared history. Then when I discovered the affair, I realised those positives were all just lies, and there was nothing to balance the negatives against.

  • Why marry someone with those attributes, or without attributes that are important to you? Absence of a sense of humour shows pretty quickly! Someone can have a sense of humour but not be a very nice person. Remembering significant events? Know someone long enough (before you commit to them) and you can pick that one up too. No life goals – same. These people didn’t assess their marriage partner for long enough, or properly, before they married them.
    I’m surprised the percentages weren’t higher. Between 4% and 19% for each attribute. Why are the other 81% – 96% cheating? (I know the maths on that is shaky, but go with me on this!). Oh yeah, it’s probably just made up. Who writes this crap? Oh yeah, a site that enables cheaters.

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