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Aspiring to Marriage

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“No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, marriage embodies a love that may endure even past death. It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. Their plea is that they do respect it, respect it so deeply that they seek to find its fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization’s oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.”

Supreme Court justice Anthony Kennedy wrote those words in the final paragraph of the court’s decision to legalize gay marriage in the United States. It is so ordered.

I’ve spent Friday in a perpetual state of weepiness. Moved by gay men and women embracing on the courthouse steps, waving rainbow banners. It is the great civil rights victory of our generation.

And to think that the United States vs. Windsor and Obergefell v. Hodges were about two long-married couples who simply wanted rights of survivorship after the death of their loved ones.

I recently went to a funeral of a dear woman, Liz, from our small-town Texas church. Liz was a dynamo of social activism. Habitat for Humanity, Girl Scouts, the Democratic Party, church acolytes, Meals on Wheels. She was a retired gym teacher from a small East Texas town. She looked like a nun, practical, intelligent, no-frills.

She also looked like a lesbian. I never knew she was a gym teacher until the service. Oh, that fits, I thought, indulging in the stereotype.

I sat through that entire service waiting for some acknowledgement of some significant relationship in her life that wasn’t the Democratic Party. No one in her family got up to speak. At first we were told they weren’t sticking around for the luncheon afterwards. (They had to get back to Houston. Who has to get back to Houston? Why?) The church provided sandwiches anyway. Fuck ’em.

But no one said anything about a partner.

I read in the program, nestled between various details, that Liz “shared a farm with a dear friend.” An unnamed friend.

Liz’s ashes are interred in the church garden. Above her remains is a brass plaque with her name. And etched above her name is another name. Pris Martin, died 2006.

The dear friend.

Unacknowledged. Unnamed. Unmentioned.

Pris exists on Liz’s gravestone and I’d like to thank the good soul who managed that. Probably our pastor, a primitive Episcopalian who believes in Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior and makes us sing Hank Williams “hymns.” Who is a mishmash of tolerance and conservatism of the kind that is peculiar to the deep South. I don’t think he cared that Liz was gay. But he didn’t mention it, either.

God, for a world we can mention it. Where loving the same gender as yourself is normal, and your family sticks around for sandwiches after your funeral.

Jim Obergefell nursed his husband John Arthur through a long, painful illness, ALS. He wrote:

John and I started our fight for a simple reason: We wanted the State of Ohio to recognize our lawful Maryland marriage on John’s impending death certificate. We wanted respect and dignity for our 20-year relationship, and as he lay dying of ALS, John had the right to know his last official record as a person would be accurate. We wanted to live up to the promises we made to love, honor, and protect each other as a committed and lawfully married couple.

Two decent men fighting for the right to honor and protect each other, who aspire to the highest “ideals of love” — marriage.

What an odd disconnect that at this time, when our news feeds are full of domestic LGBT partnerships — people engaged in ordinary cooking, cohabitation, and raising children — that we also suffer from a zeitgeist of narcissism. How often do we hear monogamy is “unnatural” and marriage is outdated? Esther Perel would release us from the shackles of “mating in captivity.” Marriage is a cage. A joke. Here’s an open marriage app. Trade up! Shop! Discard!

It takes a civil rights struggle to remind us that marriage is something to aspire to. That marriage is noble and human. That to deny a person the right to cherish another in marriage is unjust. Every cheating straight son-of-a-bitch should be ashamed when they consider Jim Obergefell’s devotion to John Arthur. Cheaters don’t just shit on their own marriages, they cheapen what marriage is, period.

Today we are reminded of just how beautiful marriage is. Thank you to the brave men and women who made this day possible. You are more than “dear friends,” you are spouses.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • You’re right, CL, we have witnessed the most significant civil rights decision of most of our lives.

    Kudos to the activists, and the ordinary men & women-turned activists, who were willing to risk social opprobrium to make this SC decision happen.

    • Marriage equality at long last!!!! I’ve always believed that if you have the right to vote, and if you can be called to serve on a jury, and be a part of the Armed Forces, and if you pay taxes, that you should have the right marry the person you love.

  • If you come from a family like mine, where the issue was not gay or straight, but the issue was who was Black and who was white, and who could marry whom and remain in the family, you come to see the damage done to people who are not allowed to love the person who sings to their soul. Whether you are black or white or gay or straight, rich or poor, we are all better, when love in its purest form is allowed to florish. I can attest to the fact that to do otherwise creates generations of hurt.

  • “Cheaters don’t just shit on their own marriages, they cheapen what marriage is, period.”

    Im a libertarian but I run with a pretty conservative crowd who are all now proclaiming that the sky is falling. I argue that it falls each time a spouse is betrayed and a family abandoned and if they didn’t confront every hetero cheater and betrayer and runner they knew then they have no business claiming that gay marriage ruined marriage. Heteros threaten the institution as much or more than anyone.

    May all of us bring some dignity back to this institution (one I will reenter in 22 days!)

      • Thanks, my soon to be husband is a wonderful man…I thought I would have to get a labrador to find a being as trustworthy, kind and reliable as him. I met him 40 yrs ago (in 5th grade) and we dated 30 yrs ago then lost track of each other when we were married to our first spouses (who oddly enough had the same first, middle and last initials). We were living in separate cities on streets with the same name.

        With 2 yrs 3 months as a couple, were past the crazy stupid (but fun) stage of love and headed into the calm peaceful stage. Now I get to have a marriage where we argue over normal things (he cannot grasp that I don’t like crock pot meals or nuts) rather than one where I live in fear of abuse and have a husband screwing his coworkers and blaming me for it.

        He had beautiful blue eyes and can fix a garage door. He works in military intelligence so Uncle Sam did nice, thorough investigations on him long before I came along. bonus.

            • Congratulations Unicornomore!! I, too found a wonderful man who thinks I hung the moon and we are planning on getting married! It took me years to get over the devastating results from my cheater asswipe. I just had to believe that all men weren’t like him. I never dreamed in a million years I’d be the one who gets to live ‘happily ever after’ and the cheater and his ugly skank woman are out there somewhere unmarried and I’m quite sure, living in a new, fresh hell everyday. Ha! Sometimes Karma doesn’t look like you thought it would.

              And yay to the Supreme Court! I was delighted to hear that they had come to the right decision.

        • Congratulations to the LGBT community, especially those who have waited too long to be allowed to exercise their right.

          I wish that gay marriage had been legalized decades ago. Perhaps the family of my STBX, who grew up in an ultra-conservative repressed family with lots of skeletons in its closet, would have let him openly be who he is–a bisexual man. He might have married a man, who would have made him a much happier and healthier person, when he was young, and prevented several women and children (my children with STBX) from experiencing much grief. Of course, I don’t place all the blame for my family’s fiasco on my in-laws. A lying, cheating, malevolent ‘spouse’ is primarily responsible for the destruction of his own family and especially his children.

          Congratulations U.! Although I have not received a marriage proposal since I became engaged to my now STBX over a decade ago, I rekindled a friendship with a man I met almost 30 years ago (when he was a teenager) and the friendship morphed into a very healthy, happy romantic relationship. (And I thought that, at my (advanced) age with such young children, the odds of me every finding any decent partner were close to zero.)

    • Fellow Libertarian here, unicornomore! (Wooooot!) I don’t have to tell you that when the basic human rights of a minority are protected, then we’re all more free. It’s a day for celebration.

      Speaking of celebration–congrats on your new union!

  • What is marriage, a promise to love one another, forsake all others…who cares what your religion, race or creed? Maybe a gay or interracial marriage is better than a straight, cheating, lying union…who knows? We best not judge each other. In the end…are we the judge of our character, I think not. God is…

  • What a beautiful post. It is a great day for this nation and it’s an even better one for marriage. How refreshing that people who are really committed to one another have fought and won for what they’ve always wanted: to be recognized.

    As always Chump Lady you put a spin on this that practically brought me to tears. Its touching and refreshing that some people really do believe in love and fidelity and death do us part. They bring honor to the institution while cheaters bring nothing but shame.

  • I like a few married gay men. They don’t prey on vulnerable women, plus I notice that they protect their children like no other.
    Do they trifle a bit? Perhaps. Have they found a path to happiness? I wonder. But I love them like brothers and honestly value their judgment more than many heteros.
    I resign marriage over to them. Best of luck!

    • Have you heard of the “Upstairs Lounge Arson Attack” in New Orleans? It sure opened my eyes. So sad.

  • I just think it’s amazing, the things that have happened in my lifetime. This is HUGE. The first time I’ve heard, ever, in all history, of the marriage between same-sex partners being recognized, legitimized, acknowledged. Add it to the end of the Cold War, the Berlin Wall coming down, the legalization of marijuana (almost there), and stuff I don’t have time to write about just now. Simply amazing.

    • I have to say gay marriage has been legal in new Zealand for a while now. Glad that the USA has aught up with the times!

      • Oh well. I’m not that great at keeping up with the times myself, obviously. We don’t even get a daily paper.. But I agree with you. And here, it’s right up there with the Civil Rights Act, IMO.

      • Same here, in The Netherlands, but very happy for the USA they joined us!

        Imagine, all the conservative zealots, thinking the LGBT movement attacked marriage from the outside, all the while cheaters were hollowing it it from the inside, right under their noses… I cherish the bonds of marriage, even though I’m not religious. It means a lot to me, something worth fighting for.

  • Love this, Tracy! And like you, I’ve been weeping and clapping and smiling all day long over this news. I have SO MANY friends who have been denied this simple, yet important thing for so long. It was legalized in Minnesota a couple of years ago but this? This is huge. This is every single county, every single town, every single city in every single state.

    And yes amen to this quote:

    “Cheaters don’t just shit on their own marriages, they cheapen what marriage is, period.”

    I’ve been reading the pearl-clutching, hand-wringing comments from people all day. About how this is a terrible day for marriage, the institution. About how their marriage means nothing now. About all of these poor kids who will now suffer because they will be raised by, GASP, two dads or two moms.

    And all day, I’ve had to stop myself from typing this:

    “So…let me get this straight: gay people getting married is a threat, it’s scary, it’s going to destroy humankind. And yet, every single day, their are men and women who defile the vows of their marriage and cheat on their spouses. There are women and men who leave their families in absolute ruins…mental, financial and social RUINS, so they can “begin a new life” with their “soul mate”. Where were you then? Where was the outcry over adultery and what it did to sully the institution of marriage?

    People who cheat on their spouses are basically dropping trau and defecating all over marriage. Yet, you don’t see Fox News blathering on about it. You don’t hear conservative politicians and pundits demand and end to it. Your neighbors, the ones who put up signs in protest of marriage equality? Why have they never put up signs demanding that adultery stop?

    I am head over heels DELIRIOUS about today’s ruling. Despite the fact that my world was almost destroyed by a straight dude who couldn’t keep his dick in his pants, I still believe that marriage is awesome. And I believe that everyone should have a crack at it. I don’t know if I’ll ever get married again, but I know for sure I’m looking forward to attending some seriously fabulous weddings in the future.

    ROCK ON, SUPREME COURT.

    • You wrote: every single day, their are men and women who defile the vows of their marriage and cheat on their spouses. There are women and men who leave their families in absolute ruins…mental, financial and social RUINS, so they can “begin a new life” with their “soul mate”. Where were you then? Where was the outcry over adultery and what it did to sully the institution of marriage?

      Exactly! I just had a very un-meh moment on Facebook. My town FB page was discussing the ruling and this pompous “Christian” said that it was a state matter and church’s can still decide what marriage is.

      Okay, fine. Whatever. Except someone asked him if he’d marry a gay person.

      He demurred. Oh, he can’t do that, because they’d have to be a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church and in good standing with their bishop.

      I.e., I only marry the Most Pious of People.

      I wrote: “That’s funny. You married my husband’s ex-wife to her affair partner. Last I heard, neither of them was Eastern Orthodox.”

      He wrote back — that yes, he did, but he was an Anglican then and I really should’ve private messaged him!

      So, let me get this straight — you’re against recognizing gay marriage, and give some bullshit excuse about how you’re too “orthodox” to recognize it, but you’re perfectly FINE with marrying two serial cheaters and blessing THAT union?

      Last I looked, people were “liking” his comment that I should’ve private messaged him, instead of outing him as marrying cheaters.

      Hey, if it’s not so bad to MARRY them, it’s not so bad that I MENTION it.

      Fuck these people!

      • Bravo, CL! It makes my skin crawl to know that I was married to a homophobe who — back in 2004 in Massachusetts when gay marriage became legal — was horrified, telling me that it “cheapens our marriage.”

        So, marriage between two consenting adults who we don’t know “cheapens” it? I was raised to believe fucking your coworker, stealing family money, lying to your wife and children and maligning your wife for sport when she found out cheapens marriage.

        My bad.

        I wonder what exactly he found so disgusting; gay marriage or marriage in general. He and his skank have been shacking up for 2.5 years now and still no marriage. Oh, but they still attend Mass every Sunday because they’re “good Catholics.”

      • CL. I love that you called him out on FB. Pompous ass is right. I’m in the middle of reading The Sociopath Next Door and your courage and bravery for standing up and calling his hypocrisy is inspiring. This world needs brave people like you. It’s the brave one who are criticized. Obiendency isn’t easy. Yes keep that shit secret. This is a man of leadership and authority with great power to influence others. He doesn’t want to marry gay people then he’s not forced to and I doubt a gay person would want him to marry them. But his words have power and influence. His words encourage hate and exclusion from society by making the “others” less than human with normal human rights. Stand up and fight for the disenfranchised. It isn’t easy or popular but it’s the right thing to do. I hope there were others who were as brave as you that posted as wel.

      • Oh my GOD my blood boils when I read stuff like ‘you should have pm’d me’…

        Why? Because you don’t want your grandstanding sullied with FACTS?!?

        Yeah, idiots want to blather publicly about the relationships and bedrooms of two guys or two girls, but OH MY STARS AND GARTERS WE SHANT SPEAK OF INFIDELITY! (faints from the vapours).

        Why is this? Someone tried to shush me when I posted the most benign, vague thing on FB saying ‘I know the word is out, yes we are separated, I could not get past what occurred – please don’t pick sides or spread rumours, we are doing the best we can’

        Apparently cheating makes people soooooo uncomfortable we are forbidden from speaking of it, no matter what the circumstances or relevance. The guilty must be protected, I guess?

    • The fact that gay marriage has NOT been allowed has been a far bigger threat to the institution of marriage than gay marriage itself ever could be, even in the wildest imaginations of the most extreme opponents of marriage equality. I’m speaking from experience as a chump–and there are far more of us out here than most people would imagine–whose STBX’s sole motivation in marrying me was to achieve the image of respectability as a husband, father, and family man that only opposite sex marriage could, until now, confer. Like most serial cheaters he is a narcissist, but his cheating was fueled less by narcissism in general than it was by the narcissistic and ultimately futile desire to suppress his sexuality in the interests of maintaining his image of respectability as a married straight man.

    • HH, that is beautiful, I really hope you didn’t hold yourself back from replying this to the chicken littles out there.

  • I have long thought that if you are lucky enough to find someone to love in this world who loves you back with deep devotion, it’s a miracle. And no one and nothing should stand between you and that miracle. Certainly not the government!

  • “It takes a civil rights struggle to remind us that marriage is something to aspire to. That marriage is noble and human. That to deny a person the right to cherish another in marriage is unjust.”

    Absolutely! I have gay friends in long-term relationships (one couple actually married in two states and Canada because they were advised by their lawyer to legitimize their relationship as much as possible– they have a child together, and the one woman’s family would happily take the child away from the adoptive mother if something happened to the biological mother) who have LONG proven that the issues that destroy marriage have nothing to do with sexual orientation.

    Lies destroy marriages. Entitlement destroys marriages. Abuse of any sort destroys marriages. Selfishness and a desire for instant gratification destroys marriages. Last I saw, there are many straight people who engage in these behaviors and destroy their marriages, so when people preach about the sanctity of marriage between a woman and a man, I honestly want to hurl.

    My heterosexual marriage went down the tubes because my then-husband was a selfish pig who cared more about his penis than about his wife and children. The gay couple I just mentioned? They’re still going strong and have been together almost 20 years. I am so happy that their relationship has been fully recognized by the law.

    Now, we just need the law to recognize adultery as a destructive, ruinous force that tears marriages apart so that we are able to strip cheaters’ of their rights to the marital home, the family assets, and even custody if necessary.

    • Personally, I’d like to strip cheating men of their penis. Surgically, and without anesthesia, of course. Oh, did I just type that? Why, yes, I did! Someone will have to come up with something for female cheaters.

    • Yes, yes, yes, so well said…I am the innocent party in this mess my someday to be ex husband created…Now I get to dip my toe in some very cold waters before I jump off a cliff..Because of him, I will have to worry about not having a home, enough income to survive..So yes, I think the cheaters should be stripped of their rights to 1/2 of the marital assets when a divorce happens…Maybe there will be more divorces or maybe less.. Maybe, just maybe cheaters and assholes will think twice about how they treat their spouses…

    • Adultery is already a crime in many states. It is, here in NY where I live. But sad to say, we live in a society where it is condoned and increasingly, even encouraged… with all the “me first” narcissism rampant in our culture, of the “Eat, Pray, Fuck” variety especially, where someone who uses other people, lies to people who trust them, all in the name of Me, Me, Me, is lauded for being “in touch with themselves”, having “mindfulness” (whatever the fuck that is??) and get praised for “just wanting to be happy.” Not to mention the “monagamy isn’t natural” crowd.

      • Please let’s not forget the infamous “YOLO” acronym that has become most prevalent with the aforementioned crowd.! “You Only Live Once” is the motto of today and screw everyone else that gets in their way and for some unfortunate chumps that means their kids also.

        Just sickening!

  • Congrats, America. (I’m not from the ‘States)
    This is a decision that should have been made ages ago. Regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity – we are all human beings and deserve the same rights.
    The nutjobs who are whinging about how marriage isn’t the same now – how isn’t it? A non-heterosexual couple can now get married – how the fuck does that affect anyone except those people? Answer is: It doesn’t. And people need to grow the fuck up. A lot of people quote Biblical reasons why – but the fact is, not everyone is religious. And for those who are – those words were written eleventy billion years ago, and such bigotry is not acceptable to 21st century society.
    Now if only my country would follow the same way.

  • Lovely, lovely post today.

    For the “sky is falling” crowd, I’d like to remind them that marriage is not a religious union, it is a legal one that bestows upon the parties certain rights. You are LEGALLY married, and LEGALLY divorced. How this affects the sanctity of anybody’s anything isn’t something I see.

  • My brother, two cousins, an uncle- all gay. Honestly I have never seen the difference in their relationships vs straight ones other than added social pressures. Some are cheaters or users, some are loving and generous. The point veing, they are people and in the US a marriage is a legal contract. It seems to me to be totally unjust to exclude some from that contract.

  • As soon as I can get the legal crap done here, I’m off to live with my single gay brother, and he has promised to take me dancing.

  • “No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family.” Justice Kennedy
    A great great day.

  • Thank you, Chump Lady for your story about Liz and Pris. I think we all know friends and family members who will benefit from this in the near future, now that they can legally marry in all states. We will all benefit, regardless of our orientation, in this and coming generations, when we see more examples of solid, loving marriages.

  • I have never really had a problem with gay people, although growing up in the nineties I remember the anti-gay vitriol, and then in the 2000’s, anything bad was termed “gay.”

    I really began to believe to speak out for equal rights for gay people as a teenager in the military, when we entered the worst conflict since Vietnam. To me it made no sense if a marine, who won a medal for bravery and saving lives and doing something extraordinary, would be stripped of all that and thrown out just because it was found out he was gay.

    The way the military did it was demeaning also, because it was based on rumormongering. Someone could inform on someone, then they would go before the commander, and then the commander would ask if the rumors were true – if in fact the service member was gay. We were all taught integrity first, and wearing the uniform meant a lot, and to lie was wrong, but here gay service members would be faced with this heart wrenching decision to tell the truth and follow the ideals of integrity – or to lie.

    Many stood by their integrity and paid for it by being kicked out – even in the middle of a war!

    It made no logical sense, just like it continues to make no logical sense today.

    The same people who say gay people cannot marry are the same people that used to say (and some still do) that a black man cannot marry a white woman. It is that simple.

    In conclusion, just because my marriage went down in a giant, flaming Hindenburg shitstorm does not mean I believe in the institution of marriage, nor that I do not feel it should be afforded to everyone.

    I am very proud of America.

    • Everybody in the military, and everyone else for that matter, should read about The Sacred Band of Thebes. Here’s Plato’s quote about these men, considered invincible at one point. They all died together rather than surrender. (Not to be confused with the 300 at Thermopylae.)

      ‘And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other’s side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?’

  • ‘Til the day that my uncles can be united by law
    When kids are walking ’round the hallway plagued by pain in their heart
    A world so hateful some would rather die than be who they are
    And a certificate on paper isn’t gonna solve it all
    But it’s a damn good place to start

    #LoveWins #LoveWins #LoveWins

    • Yes. This. Macklemore’s lyrics resonated so strongly with me. Homophobia is the most bizarre thing in the world. As the daughter of a gay man who could never come out while his father was alive, and the chaos it caused our very resilient family, and a citizen of a country who have recognised and legalised gay marriage for a bit longer than yours, well done. If only legalisation could wipe out the hypocritical religious zealots and frankly scary ignorant.

  • “Cheaters don’t just shit on their own marriages, they cheapen what marriage is, period.”

    THAT. IS. TRUE.

  • Maybe this is the perfect opportunity to strengthen our message. For all the backlash slogans that are bound to pop up, maybe I’ll post a brightly colored sign in my front lawn that says, “Adultery defiles marriage.”

    • You know, the whole damn world has a cheater apologist attitude, and half of them are screaming about how allowing homosexual unions defiles the sanctity of marriage. I’m hearing it from people who CLEARLY need to be taking their own inventory.

  • When debating same sex marriage in the past with conservative acquaintances, I always pointed out that if marriage is a “sacred” union between a man and a woman, then divorce should be illegal. That no one should have the choice of walking out on their family and altering someone else’s standard of living because they found someone new, they got bored with their partner, their spouse burned their toast – whatever. My Christian cheater and his Catholic ho-worker had no problem spitting on their sacred unions.

    I am in awe that our Supreme Court has decided to follow the Constitution and not their bibles with granting the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to gays and lesbians who are also Americans like everyone else. Bravo!

  • I just read a book written in the fifties, about marriage. Because my ex- comes every saturday morning to sort our shelves, and I have to re-arrange the remaining books, I discover some I have never read. In the past, adultery was the norm. Rich people would marry for land and prestige, poor people would end up in a submissive/violent relationship, middle class men would maintain a mistress on the side. Quite horrible. In case of adultery in older age, the author suggests meeting one’s fate with resignation. I know I can’t. The stress and humiliation are too much to bear. People then did not have the option to live alone.

    • I think the ideal we marry for has come a long way. Love, respect, growing old (and rich, lol) together. Doing it together. Raising those babies, building a home, being true partners. Handling life, and supporting one another. Pulling your weight together. Enjoying life. Marriage has never been about being miserable. 😉

  • Why shouldn’t EVERYONE have an equal opportunity for happiness and heartbreak?

    I loved David Crosby’s response to Justice Antonin Scalia’s goofy dissent, which claims “Freedom of Intimacy is abridged rather than expanded by marriage. Ask the nearest hippie.”

    “I think he’s slagging gays and hippies,” said Crosby. “I don’t think he understands either one. I think he’s an old reactionary guy and I think he’s failing to understand the basic thing: hippies and gay people are people. And we are citizens. And we live here. And we are his neighbors. He may not know that, but we are. And that’s how he should see us. As citizens of the United States. Voters. People who should be equal. That was the idea of the country. Not ‘maybe.’ There’s no ‘if’ about that, no gray area there. The idea was that people would be equal here — all of us. Hippies and gay people included. Black people, white people, yellow people — all people. People.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/26/ask-the-nearest-hippie_n_7673612.html

  • I checked out OW’s Facebook page yesterday, and she had actually posted that speech.
    Really? She and my ex ruined two families (she was married with a baby), wrecked two marriages, and certainly didn’t embody “fidelity”! What a hypocrite!!!!

    • Oh yeah, padding the narrative. It’s what entitled Cheaters do best. He’s gone, my ex married his OW and blew us up in the process. Even though my heart was breaking I still saw the humor in it. One day you will look back and know you are better off….(((Hugs)))

    • These cheaters are all DELUSIONAL. My ex touts himself as a man of “integrity.” Seriously? You can’t make this shit up.

  • I know this is a tremendous victory for civil rights but I am so bitter and cynical about marriage, I just want to hold up a sign saying ” Run! It’s a trick!”

  • My (heterosexual) first husband shat all over our (heterosexual) marriage and cheapened the institution in a thousand awful ways. Left me stunned and devastated after 25 years of marriage. Broke up an AP’s long-term marriage as well, and devastated her husband. One of her children had to be DNA tested to confirm fatherhood. Before D-Day, ex and his multiple AP’s played awful sickening games not only on us as their spouses but also on their own children, gaslighting all of us. All the children needed counseling, mine to this day.

    How in the world does it “cheapen” my (first) marriage (I am now happily re-married), or anyone else’s for that matter, that individuals of the same sex can marry? What ludicrous posturing of pitiful hypocrites.

    • There is a long history of pulling the ladder up or finding other ways to exclude others. Not nice, but it makes those who got up the ladder or in the country club door feel better to shut others out. There is a long history of inclusion in this country too, and that is winning over those who feel too much better to accept others unlike themselves. It’s time to accept us all. Character counts, not who you love.

  • Maybe when persons of the Gay Community are ordered to pay out half their retirement / 401 K to their cheater pants they will get the train rolling to stop that injustis.
    Won’t happen. NPD’s are equally distributed among our voteries and they just can’t stand consequences.
    At the end of the day, concerning the SC Ruling, all I can say, especially after reading the comments of supporters all over the internet is that it appears we have created a second class of marriage. The term “Same Sex Marriage ” accurately describes the issue presented to the Supreme Court. Now the term is “Marriage.” No class distinctions apply.
    Are you invited to a “same sex wedding” next month or a “wedding?”
    When will the bias stop? Judging from the use of bias labels in every pro “same sex marriage” posting I have read, I’d say never!
    Bias or bigotry? Thin line as a choice of words.

  • My dear nephew is married to his partner and they just last week welcomed a new baby girl into their lives. I can’t wait to meet her when I go home next month!

  • I am elated for the LGBT community and all other people who dont fall into particular definition or label. I like David Crosby statement… People are people. Now that all people can get married hopefully they will also be protected by the same domestic violence laws, child custody laws and divorce laws. I have friends who have been in long term partnerships 20 years strong and others who have experienced devastating loss in partnerships with no recourse. Left high and dry, bank accounts drained, appartments liquidated and left with chronic disease. LGBT are not without their narcs or disordered… ‘ people are people’
    Perhaps now that all people can get married there will be a larger voice against infedelity and consequences will be imposed. My guess is some of the language around marriage laws will change and hopefully infedelity will be treated as a breech of contract, endangerment and cruelty. And now that there will be a bigger voice those consequences can be inforced and recognized in divorce. It may be a great time to start a career as a divorce lawyer!!! Imagine the commercials.
    I entered into my marriage with all the hopes and aspirations of living a long happy life with my Idiot. I honored that agreement…. Until the ink was dry on the divorce papers. It has taken me a good part of this year to stop living ‘ married’ It was very much a part of my personna and like an amputation the phantom pain still exists. I look across the bed and still feel the warmth of his body. The dent in the matteras. Did i want the useless nonfunctioning limb for comfort and appearances? Probably. When the cleave happens albeit traumatic or planned the pain gets a little less and you learn a different skill set. How you get back into functioning is the hard part.

    • It would be great, but this would be in an ideal world only.
      Like someone said above – there are way too many narcs pushing their agenda and they don’t want consequences, so something like this would probably never happen.
      I think the world needs to drop its cheater apologist shit – but the same line as above plays into effect.

  • Congratulations to our LGBT friends and family.

    As for the pearl clutchers…maybe they should turn their outrage towards Ashley Madison and other outlets that promote infidelity?

  • Did compulsory pre marital counselling?
    Check!
    Married before family, friends and God?
    Check!
    Vowed to love, honour and obey, forsaking all others?
    Check!
    Was a submissive wife?
    Check!
    From the outside marriage was solid?
    Check!

    Husband cheated for more than half of 20 yr relationship?
    Check!
    Husband expected that wife would/should get past it and remain marred?
    Check? No!
    Husband then claimed victim?
    Check!
    Wife’s frustration with husbands lack of respect and commitment to marriage caused husband to cheat with other men?
    Check? No!
    XH is now out and proud?
    Check? No!
    XH is now dating another woman and denying sexually?
    Check! Check! Check!

    I come to realise recently that the church XH and I attended before d’day are very supportive of gays marrying just not to each other. But if it is to someone of the opposition sex and they are willing to “fake it till they make it” they will support you all the way.

  • I am now very happy that my LGBT friends can marry.

    This is a huge civil rights victory, and I’m now delighted that my church, which has supported such marriage, is no longer restricted by those other views who believe the contrary.

    Also, our priest is a gay, married man. He’s awesome, and has been a real asset to our congregation. 🙂

  • On the radio, on the way home, the day of the announcement, a lawyer was on our local radio show and had already been contacted (the state I’m from did not allow gay marriage), concerning a gay couple who wanted to divorce. They were married in another state and now wanted to divorce in the state I’m from.

    The two industries that will benefit – the wedding industry and the divorce lawyers. It’s sad, but true.

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