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The “People Pleaser” Excuse

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peoplepleaser

I used to see this “wayward” excuse all the time on infidelity RIC forums, and it came up again in that last UBT piece — the cheater isn’t a vapid, selfish, destructive person. No! They’re a people pleaser.

See, she cheated on you for the noblest of motives — to please another person. He wasn’t a horrid man — the OW needed him.

Unicorns buy this crap.

Eustace was just seeking validation in all the wrong places. You see, his mother never complimented him. She was all, “Tuck in your shirt” and “Wherever you left it” and this crushed his spirit. He longed to be… special. And so began a lifelong quest for kibbles.  Eustace learned to flirt, cajole, and charm. People liked him! But deep down, Eustace didn’t like himself. So, when his self-esteem began to flag, he would promise to buy total strangers puppies, or bake them cupcakes, or snow shovel their driveways. People loved him! Of course, these things never materialized. Eustace was a people pleaser. What matters here are Eustace’s intentions. Is there a bereft seven-year-old child awaiting Godot the cocker spaniel? Hey, Eustace was just trying to say something nice. If you actually expected a puppy, that’s on you.

Next, Eustace grows up to be a sex addict because he’s got “poor coping mechanisms” for stress.  The stress that comes from people expecting him to keep his word about shit.

Were you married to Eustace? At some point you probably asked yourself, “Hey, I am a ‘people.’ Don’t you wish to please me?”

Silly goose! Chumps are Un-pleasable. Oh Eustace tries and tries, but nothing is ever good enough. This makes him sad. He needs to go fuck someone he met on Craigslist now to escape your judgement.

You’re not pleased? Vicious circle.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • “Nothing’s Ever Good Enough for You!” hollered at the top of one’s lungs compete with spit flying from ones mouth – experienced this many times.

      • ‘I tried so hard to make you happy’ [British Version].

        I would have been happy with you meeting me half way and telling me honestly what you really thought and felt.

    • I got that, plus, ‘You always complained’ which, when put through the UBT, means, ‘You expressed needs and sometimes disatisfaction and expected me to discuss these things with you. How dare you.’

      • Oh yes. I’m so sick of the “you always complain” whine. I was expected to see him as perfect and to never call him out on his shit because I was LUCKY to have him. I should just focus on my luck and let him do whatever he wants while I work full time to pay the bills and have all my needs go unmet. And he cheats too.

        • I was told: “YOU DON’T APPRECIATE ME”
          When I responded “appreciate you for what?”
          He said “FOR NOT LEAVING YOU!!”

          lucky me. I left shortly after.

          • After I found the courage to go, I received a nasty email telling me that I was being ridiculous complaining about his behavior because what about his sacrifice “staying all those years while he was so unhappy.”
            He missed the fact and irony that he never “stayed.”

            • Kathleen W–there’s no point trying to make sense of cheaterspeak. You’ll have more luck fashioning a perpetual motion machine (which no one has yet been able to do, but at least it has a more likely outcome).

      • These comments sit so deep with me because my fiancé left me recently and was a people pleaser who said the same exact thing. If any of you can reach out to chat I would love to. I’m going through a really difficult time and would love to hear your advice.

    • Just look at the sentence closely “Nothing’s ever good enough for you!” I can’t help but hear an angry “Nothing” is never good enough for you, how come????” They cannot believe that the crumbs they throw at us are not enough!!! I mean we demand love? transparency? reciprocity? Outrageous! Not even their mother dared to!

      Cheaters are first and foremost soulless abusers who have zero empathy but massive entitlement to your very soul. Remember, to them this is a matter of OWNERSHIP, not partnership. They are genuinely shocked by our ‘fighting back’. In their sociopahtic minds, they are ‘a king’. They did not ‘marry’, they acquired a slave to exploit sexually, financially and for free labor. Slaves do not have demands and slaves certainly do not complain! A slave is not a King’s equal.

      To this day I cannot believe this is what happened to me, and likely to most of us.
      It took me years to learn and another decade to truly get.

      Empath can never ever really wrap their head around this. Ever. Thank God. Just get out, friends, as soon as you can. As Tracy says, don’t even waste your time untangling “the Skein….”

      • Well said Sasanka!!! Mine actually said, ” I am your King, you should worship me. Bow down and kiss my feet.” I am not kidding, he actually said these words in a disagreement we were having about him being more honest.

  • Oh boy. I handed him this excuse on a platter! Poor guy can’t be introspective and doesn’t have the courage to address his own issues…so I will provide the analysis for him and take some of the blame on myself so he doesn’t have to experience MORE pain of disappointing people. Wow! Get my Chump stamp for my forehead now! OW doesn’t judge him like I do, he says. She doesn’t expect things from him, he says. Now that she is in the picture, WE need to handle it together because she will be hurt. And it’s not HER fault our marriage was bad, he says.

    • Doesn’t judge him…hmmmm….yet. Told asswipe that. Just as much her fault as his even if he persued her. Then both knew he was married. She’s still a whore and he’s still a cheating lying bastard.

      • Dang, Kar Marie. My story, exactly. He’s such a good guy. And of course, crying about how women never “want good guys,”. News flash. Women see through that Good Guy shit to the Selfish prick you really are.

      • The only kind of OW who gets a pass in my book are those that had no freaking clue the douchebag was married. And when they find out, they run for their lives.

  • I heard the nothings ever good enough for you and ‘you’re just so negative all the time’. ‘I need to be around positive people who love me and accept me for who I am’. I can’t imagine why Id have a negative response when I find yet another craiglist ad.

    • After years of a relationship of sorts with OW, I put my foot down on their flirtation. Suddenly I was “hard to live with” and “treating him badly.”

    • How about “ooooh, you’re so fucking perfect all the time!!!” And then insisting the slut is a “nice person”

      Maybe I have toooo much perfection to be treated like a human being

      • Saddam called OW a saint. I kid you not he once said “she’s a saint, she is better than you or I will ever be” followed by “you’d really like her”…you don’t even want to know what he called me after he gave me an STI, cos you know; the OW was a saint, he didn’t get it from her…

          • Amazing. No I don’t like sluts and whores who cheat with married people. Gee I would like to have all my girlfriends sleep with my husband and pretend they are perfect. It would be such fun! Me and the whore could talk about having sex with him. Oh, whats that you say? Doesnt work anymore you say? Shame i had it when it did work just fine. Asswipe told me she is perfect!!! Flawless!!! Ha! They are both living in a fantasy world. She says he’s is perfect and flawless hahahahaha we will see how long she lasts. Fuckers!

          • Yeah, I was told “she’s actually your best friend, Muse.” Why? I inquired. “Because she told me I needed to tell you about us.” In that sentence, “us” referred to Ex and OW, not Ex and the woman who faithfully supported him for 16 years and from whom he hid his secret fuck-lationship with OW for about a year.

          • HAHHAHA!!! I got that line too! My response was Hell no I wouldn’t like her – she is a slut who had a relationship with a married man with kids. My daughter got the line – “You’d love her because she’s just like your mother”, and my daughter told X – “She isn’t anything like my mother because my mother would never sleep with a married man.” Glad my kid has more common sense than the X.

          • YES! ^^ this^^! I also got “She’s alot like us, you’d really like her.” Okay, so bring her over and we’ll have a nice chat and get to know one another, and hey, lets all friend each other on Facebook so we can see what each other has been up to! NO?? That is scary? huh. Cannot imagine why… since I’d really like her, she’d prolly open right up and tell me all about what a wonderful guy you are. And I’d open right up and tell her what a shitheel you are.

            Disordered fucktard!! I would love to open up his head and see the mechanics of his brain. The insane thought processes and logic would surely be one for the books.

      • If he’s a people pleaser, then what am I? I would love to know what I get to go out and do since I’ve been doing well by him for years. he gets to go do whatever it is he’s done….. For all his – barely has a job, barely does any house work, can’t keep his junk in his pants people pleasing? Damn. I must be in for some realllllly good reward.

      • Oh I still get that too, Mudlufe. In fact the last time he said that, uh last week, I replied that by his view of “perfect” he meant an honest, respectful and committed person,THAN YES INDEED!!! I want perfect and gues what? I must be perfect under this standard as well!

          • It’s the pity party narrative. They will use this as their story of how tortured they were by you after Dday. Because you just demanded perfection from them in your relationship. This is how perpetrators twist reality to make themselves the victim when they retell the new version of your shared history. It sucks for chumps.

            • It’s blameshifting. An emotionally healthy adult first wouldn’t fuck thousands and basically say YouMadeMeDoIt!!!! They would actively seek to communicate with you about issues. They would own their shit and the resulting consequences.

              Remind them that a “mistake” ( I find this term insulting, btw) done more than once is a DECISON. Remind them that you were never there holding a gun to their head “making” them cheat on you and your kids.

    • I got accused of constant negativity too! But really, my cheater was just looking at me through ‘negativity’ coloured glasses. During the fake reconciliation, he made supper one night and I said “that smells good, what is it?” and he accused me of being critical of what he was making. It was one of the many last straws that let me know reconciliation wouldn’t work.

      • Holy cow! You, too?

        My STBX has been weird our entire marriage when it comes to differences of opinions. I discovered that even any opinion was a different one! STBX would express an opinion, and I’d respond, saying, “yes, that’s a good point, and it also pulls in Y (some other, related information).” He’d accuse me of trying to start an argument.

        WTF? I was not only agreeing with him, but letting him know that he was being super-perceptive!

        In his world, conversations took place in echo chambers.

        • That sort of stuff happened to me a lot… I think it is a form of gas lighting and control. Even complements disturbe their sense of control because God knows if it is good you might want him to make dinner again and then he might not want to so we have to nip this dinner thing in the bud RIGHT NOW… they are mental. Dat yo baby, Slunty.

          • Just part of their Mindfuck Manual, to make you think good is bad and bad is good; up is down and down is up; blue is red and red is blue.

            • KB, don’t you know that these narcissistic douche canoes don’t have conversations? They only make statements and you are supposed to listen quietly, agree with everything they say, and thank them for the wisdom they’ve imparted. They are only thinking out loud. You are not a real person to them.

              • Appliances aren’t supposed to have opinions! Just keep doing all that work, and never leave.

              • I have to cohabitate with my STBX until the settlement comes through and I have the downpayment on a new place (and close and move). I did not know what Gray Rock was, but that’s what I’ve been doing.

              • So true! Many times I asked why can’t we agree to disagree… only to get “We are not on the same page. If we were soul mates, we’d be on the same page.” I’ve also been accused of being negative. And have been told how lucky I was to be married to someone like him. These narcissistic assholes are cut from the same cloth!

              • Yes, ^^this. I was complimenting mine on how clean he kept the kitchen (this was our arrangement… I cook, he cleans), and the fucker used it to pick a fight! Suddenly the arrangement HE SUGGESTED was no good and how dare I dirty a pot or pan in the process of preparing his nightly feast (which I paid for out of my personal account. Fuckhead ate wonderful meals for free the entire time we lived together in Round 1. Round 2, I had learned enough to pay for the groceries that he scarfed like a Disposall). After that argument, I decided to take a break from cooking for awhile. I took much glee in springing that on him when he looked in the fridge the next night and asked “what’s for dinner?”

        • OMG – I’ve never heard anyone who had this experience too. I would agree with EVERYTHING he said just to avoid conflict – only to have him disagree with my agreeing with him so he could start an argument anyway! Oh the Mindfuckary!!

          • My STBXH goes into full blown rage during any disagreement. One time during a temper tantrum, I decided to tell him that I understood what his point was just to get him to shut up. Did he? Hell no…he started a different rant on the fact that I should’ve gotten his point 30 minutes earlier! Seriously! Screaming and yelling the whole time! Thankful every conversation has been recorded (legal in my state).

            Also, how about these phrases from our insignificant others…
            “This conversation is pointless, I’m done talking”
            “You wonder why I get so frustrated and pissed off? Because you………”
            “The problem with you is you want to believe what you see instead of what I say.”
            And the ultimate deflect/blameshift/threat combo;
            “If there’s no trust, there’s no marriage.”

        • So much this.

          Having anything to say was too much. Having nothing to say was sometimes not ok either because then you made him look like an asshole because you didn’t have an opinion. But only when he didn’t have anything else to criticize. FML the shades of crazy…. Can’t even fathom this right now

        • ^^^THIS^^^

          Jeez it is so weirdly gratifying to read this stuff here and realize that I wasn’t crazy, it wasn’t me, it really was like that, and it can be explained.

          I really thought it was me….

          • And the famous “let’s stop talking about the past what’s done is done” really?!
            He’s the one who constantly bring it up! Im supposed to totally forget what happened, forgive and forget. We can be best friends still right? Right?! See how happy this makes me karmarie that you can forget all about this and our friendship will be better than ever! And this latest corker is so cool. Not. “You see karmarie I had to spend time with you and be nice to you, you know, because I had to, after all you’ve been my wife and partner for over 25 years. Now we are divorcing I can be nice to you and spend time with you because now I want to do it! Won’t that be nice!” WTF! He really is crazy. I’m playing the great actress till this is over and then byebye forever motherfucker. His guilt is so high he actually believes this shit!!!!!

        • ^^^THIS^^^ So glad that my requirement to exclusively communicate about our kid via email and text have put the cabash on that massive mindfuckery!!

          • I’ll put a twist on the email communication about kid. So, X sent an ATTEMPT at being mean and condescending (like he used to and it would cow me) along with the alimony and child support breakdown a couple weeks ago. It was a very bitter rant lecturing me about how I was a “gold digger” and “entitled” because I expected him to pay alimony and what a terrible person I am. (He is only just beginning many many long years of alimony payment 🙂 ) So, I admit I sent a snarky cheerful response back because I knew the karma bus had finally arrived for him and he was miserable. He married the slut this past summer and clearly that hasn’t made him happy :). I know I am living the good life as is my kid (who he has had essentially no contact with by his choice in 2 years) and he is bitter, angry, and clearly doesn’t now what the word “gold digger” means or that a court order to pay alimony and child support is not “entitlement” (the irony being he “wanted his day in court” and the judge awarded me more than I was originally asking :)). Any way, I started sending him a photo a day of his daughter that he really hasn’t seen in 2 years – with an email subject line of “Still feeling generous due to your supportive email”. Today my attorney got a letter from X’s attorney ordering me to “stop sending harassing emails!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I wonder if his attorney knows the harassing email is photos of his daughter??? This has put an even larger smile on my face – so I know I haven’t reached MEH yet. But I know I am well on the road.

        • kb,

          That experience is similar to mine as well. I would listen intently for many minutes then during a pause, agree with her and add some related information or metaphor, and I would suddenly be met with accusation of interrupting her and not letting her finish and told how my metaphor was nothing like what she was saying etc.

          But if I waited too long during a pause, she would accuse me of not listening or not being interested in what she was saying.

          I tried so hard to have an intimate, human, adult connection with her and in the end, after d-day where I rightly accused her of betrayal, she countered with accusing me of “emotional betrayal” WTF!!!

          (In her defense, she wasn’t always like this and we did have many good conversations as well.)

          • Oh bloody hell, the old ‘You’re always interrupting me!’ Well, if you monologue for ages I may jump in at some point. Grrr… just thinking about it makes me nuts all over again.

            • Currently, STBX likes to listen to the podcasts on his phone. When he’s feeling chatty, i.e. after he and Schmoopie have had a fight, he’ll want to impart his keen political acumen. I can tell he’s parroting whatever nutso podcast he’s just listened to. He doesn’t really have any particular analytical skills. Rather, he listens to passionate speakers whose use of logical connectors suggests that they have an actual argument based on evidence rather than on conjecture.

            • My Ex’s rages about how selfish and stupid I was would go on for literally hours. Sometimes I would try to defend myself, meekly raising my hand (for real) and saying “well let me tell you why I did that,” or “let me tell you how I feel,” which always resulted in him screaming at me at the top of his lungs, spittle and all, “IT’S NOT. ABOUT. YOU. MUSE! why don’t you fucking understand that????!!!!” Well, hey. You are accusing me of all kinds of things. I try to defend and explain myself. So yeah. That shit you just said, it WAS about me. Our relationship IS about BOTH of us.” The narc never quite got that. I hear via the grapevine that he and OW are fighting like cats and dogs. Though his version of it, repeated to me by a friend still in touch with him as I am NC for 1.5 years, “their relationship is very volatile.” Why, why why don’t these “mutual” friends realize the common denominator is HIM. He’s a raging abuser. They are “fighting”?? Things are “rocky?” Things are “volatile?” How about he’s a raging monster who blames everyone else for every little sleight in his life. Don’t actually envy OW at all. Even when I am sad about how my life changed and how he betrayed me, and my lost opportunities, I am so fucking glad this Anger Machine is out of my life and out of my house.

      • Lolz! My X is a (diagnosed!) narcissist who loved that game. Once he was telling me a story about his 2 year old nephew and i responded, “That’s so cute! I love that age.” He immediately jumped my shit, saying that i always have to make everything about me (as though my response wasn’t, like, THE most common response ever). Somehow, the story morphed into me being “insanely jealous” of his nephew (what even?); he even testified to my crazy nephew-jealousy as evidence of my mental instability on the stand in our custody trial (he lost, obvs). God.

        • wtf. sounds so familiar!! My Ex said, after D-Day, “I didn’t leave US, Muse. I left YOU.” Um, first of all he didn’t leave me I kicked him out that night… but seriously… what part of “us” doesn’t have “me” in it??? These narcs are predictable!

    • “you’re too negative” is one of the most common cheater criticisms of chumps? May I translate? “Negative” means you are standing up for yourself.

      • “You’re so negative” = I am banging the babysitter/coworker/student/neighbor/stranger I met through Adult Friend Finder.

      • Oh God, my ex was constantly going off about my “negativity.” He would angrily brush his hands across his lap and say, “I am brushing away your negativity!” And it wasn’t like I was even being really negative, it was usually because I had said something like, “Maybe you should pursue your acting career in the evenings or weekends to start, and have a regular day job until you make it big.” He seriously replied that no actor ever did that, LOL.

        • I figured that out as well. The more I was like, ‘hey, my needs aren’t being met and we need to talk about this’ the more I was ‘negative’ and ‘complaining’, despite me putting this stuff into the context of ‘We should talk about this so we can keep things strong’. Silly me.

      • I kept thinking it was so odd that Mr Control Issues would characterize my polite declining of offers of unwanted help and cleaning appliances as “being negative”. (Hey, I just didn’t need my airducts cleaned, I didn’t want another DustBuster is all.) And that anytime I agreed with him and added emphasis, he’d get angry with me. (“Are we clear?” he’d say. “Crystal clear!” I’d agree, and he’d be angry that I changed his words.) So glad to confirm it really is weird control-freakery and just not that “all our problems with communication” are my fault, as he declared.

      • Many years ago (at least 10), my husband said I was negative. It really struck a chord with me. I tend to be a worrier, particularly when it comes to health issues and admittedly, I would think the worst at times. As in, my head hurts, omg, maybe I have brain cancer. It wasn’t that extreme, but we have a son who had some health issues and it caused me lots of anxiety. ANYWAY, I was baffled. I needed another opinion. I asked a good friend of mine, “am I negative?” She didn’t think so. I really had no idea why he said it. And shame on me, I never asked him. I just tried to be cognizant of negativity and squelch it. Fast forward a decade later to D-day and he says it again. This time, I disagreed with him and asked why. He claimed that because I asked him a few months ago whether his job was secure, I was negative. That made no sense to me. But clearly, me asking the question was translated by him to mean that I had no confidence in him. I never meant to imply that I thought he wasn’t good enough to keep his job. I asked him that question because he had been expressing frustration about one guy in particular being on his case AND he was very irritable and moody of late. I asked because we’re a team. We’re in this together. We hang together through shit. Shouldn’t I know what’s going on? Turns out, what was going on was him and a co-worker falling in love. Those words, “you’re so negative” will resonate with me for the rest of my life. He only said them to me twice, but I know now he lived many years believing it. Truly, he couldn’t have said anything more hurtful. I really took it to heart and it lives there. Even, the “I’m not in love with you” was less hurtful. Why? I don’t think he ever truly got me. And that makes me very sad.

  • Cheater: “You are never satisfied!” followed by: “You always criticize me!” along with: “Nothing I ever do is good enough!” Chump: Let me do the dance of pick me then you will love me more than all of the other APs! Of course you are the great and wonderful all supreme being – please, have some more kibble until I am completely drained of my life force trying to please …..

    • I did not know there was such thing as being drained of one’s life force. It really does happen. It’s been 4 years since the burnout and my enthusiasm/energy/effciciency has never been restored in full.

      • Towards the end of my marriage, I kept thinking of myself as a corn husk, ready to blow away in the wind. That’s what happens when you can’t feed your needs, and all your energy is only flowing OUT.
        And yes, it’s very hard to get back to where you started, but we have to keep trying! I hope eventually it feels better.

      • CFF, I completely understand! I now describe X as the “sucking vortex of need” that lived in our family home. I didn’t realize it at the time, but he was draining the life out of me and my kids. It was only after we all got away that we started feeling so much better and started to find ourselves again..

        It may be years before I get back to where I was before X came into my life, but that’s ok. It’s still a hell of a lot better living free of an emotional vampire.

    • When a lowlife narc cheater says, “Nothing I ever do is good enough!”, I think its more a confession than a statement. Based on how much damage they cause, truly nothing they do is good enough to justify putting up with them.

        • Totally agree that it is a confession! It’s an expression of their underlying self-doubt and their worst fear… that we are actually seeing what they know in their heart of hearts: that they are not good enough for us, that their actions are insufficient, and that their words are hollow and worthless.

    • Yes! This brief summary really sums things up around here. I was made to feel like a terrible partner when in reality it was a pick-me dance all along. This kind of manipulation is hard to detect when you’re in the middle of it.

  • Omg. People pleaser overtime.

    Took our lawn mower to a friends house and mowed their lawn because they were having renovations done and hadn’t gotten round to it and then they went on an overseas holiday. Basked in all the kibble supplied when they told friends of his generosity.
    When I was spending weeks on end in the hospital with our daughter last year XH did not offer or mow the lawn once but had the nerve to question why the kids and I were living in the house but he wasn’t.
    Was always eager to do for others especially for ego boosting kibble, but for me or the kids no. Just recently he had his girlfriends kids for the day brought them to our sons football game. There was a three hour gap between games. So XH toddles off to the beach with the girlfriends kids leaving his own children 13 and 11 yr girls at the football venue. Didn’t even consider to take them with him to the beach. Clearly not enough kibble gained from taking his own kids. Or the realisation that he no longer needs to impress me but he is still working the girlfriend.

    • Wow you EX sounds like a really selfless type of person. I’m sure he thinks you are unfairly judging him. He probably only to the girlfriends children out because he though your kids were “uncomfortable” so actually not going to the beach was some sort of favor to them. He just thought they liked spending 3 hours at a football venue better. Or it might be your fault really for not being as fun as the beach. Maybe he thought you were more fun than the beach and he was actually thought that you and the venue were MORE fund than the beach and he was being unkind to the GF’s children.

    • Unfortunately I can relate, @Thankful. My ex was out lending muscle to a friend’s backyard project for a full weekend when our child was just a few days old, and I was at home alone and exhausted. He bends over backward to help any person he views as “cool” or that can do something for him in return. But when an unglamorous person from church dared to ask us for help on something (much smaller than a full weekend’s work), he scoffed. It’s all about the kibbles.

    • God, the lawn mowing. I did it so he would have more time with me and kiddos. You can surmise what happened. We also had the constant argument that I would appreciate a text, call or any decent notifications of when he had business trips, was going to be late etc. I was told I was ‘controlling’ and not appreciative of his hard work…I ended up feeling completely crazy for trying to get him to give me respect. Subtle but powerful control tactic on his side. I felt like a loon! The day he stood and said ‘we can go to counseling but I won’t respond to the accusations against me’ I retorted they ‘weren’t accusations and I would not be told I was making things up anymore’ was the end of the matter. UGH. Sorry it’s been an awful week.

      • OutWest, Asshat is like this, too! He was working late for a decade but only ever managed to be caught up a few days a month. After the initial rush of excitement when we first started dating, he was no longer in a hurry to see me bc he remembered the kibble jackpot he could get from fawning patients, nurses and drug reps instead. Many with horrible, mean husbands. After D-Day, he promised to let me know where he’d be. That lasted about 6 weeks and then he stopped. Because everyone would know he wasn’t cheating. You know, or even be capable of something so sleazy. But even when he is making an effort from his perspective, it is shitty. He thinks he is killing himself to be s great father and husband but he is mediocre at best. I would like to trade him in. I will accept cash in lieu of a new model. Stupid idiot. Just last week he said he was leaving the office. An hour later, I texted to ask where he was. “Sorry, I got caught up with a crying patient.” When he got home he was trying to explain, was getting defensive and slightly whiny. I flat out said I was not angry or jealous but that he could have notified me somehow in an hour that he wasn’t going to be home in ten minutes. Fucktard.

        • So true ChumpElf, THIS –> “even when he is making an effort from his perspective, it is shitty. He thinks he is killing himself to be a great father and husband but he is mediocre at best. ”

          Leaving my STBX is the best possible example I can give my kid not to put up with mediocrity in their life partner!

      • Outwest,
        Don’t be sorry. I get where you are coming from. When I was a full time mum I did our lawns because I thought that if he had less to worry about at home he would be able to give the kids and I quality time. No he just found things to do with others with his free time. We have three kids and life gets hectic but there was always time for XH to attend committees(kibble) play football(kibble), hang about after his game and help officiate the following games(kibble) or go for catch ups with his friends(KIBBLE). Even when he was physically home he wasn’t here emotionally, he just never engaged he just went through the motions of being with us and if I called what I was seeing I too got “your so negative” or “nothing I do is good enough” I too was left feeling like I was a raving crazy bitch which is exactly what he wanted because while I was questioning myself and trying to work out what was wrong with me (great diversion tactic) he just kept doing whatever he wanted.

        • Mine was just the same. I did so much around the house so he wouldn’t have to, so that he’d have more time to be with me and the kids doing fun stuff. He always had to work late and it was awful enough back when I felt lonely and then guilty because he was working all the time, but cut forward two decades and I now know why he was never home and it wasn’t because he HAD to work late. Stupid fuckwit! It’s one thing for him to abandon and betray ME, but he took it to another level after we had kids and he STILL couldn’t be bothered. If there wasn’t another woman to be wooed there was always golf! He constantly accuses me of being unappreciative of him and after Dday he said “you do nothing except criticize me and I can’t take it anymore!” And he followed that with his usual bitter “I can’t do ANYTHING right in your eyes. Nothing I do is ever good enough for YOU!” Completely gobsmacked because for YEARS I was doing the work of two people in order to make things easier for HIM. I made excuses for him and all his absences. I was so very stupid.

          He blames ME still and says mind numbing things like “I really didn’t DO anything! I mean not like the things MOST people do that you’d think of when someone says they had an affair.” He wants to discuss all the things he DIDN’T do that could’ve made this FAR worse for me? WTFH? He swears only EAs and I said fuck that shit because THAT is already way past my HELL NO line! Stupid cheating fucker. I can’t even try to translate that hot load of steaming bullshit. I’ve heard from him that I was (and am) nothing but negative, critical and unappreciative of him and for ALL his life I’ve made him miserable. I MADE him miserable? No, no I didn’t. He’s just always been a miserable human being and I just didn’t know it before Dday. Hugs to you all. They suck.

  • My ex likes to surround himself with people he can “help”, people that really need him. Every time I turn around there is a new girl in his life that is really sad or really sick or struggling in class. And he is there to help because he is such a good person. Then when they don’t need him anymore he leaves them and “never liked them that much” and moves to the next person. His AP was hurting in life and she was in a bad relationship and he was miserable in our marriage so they “bonded”, she really “got it”, and she “needed him”. I actually have an example of some poetry he wrote for her. But it wasn’t “romantic”, she just needed someone to cheer her up and he was trying to be a good friend. Really, when you think about it the affair affair was MY fault because I neglected him, someone else was there and they needed each other but I was not there. I actually “refused” to go with him this summer. I dared to think that my work and my research was as important as his or that, you know, having a source of income this summer was necessary. He was in Europe doing and unpaid internship that was “super super important”, while I was at home doing the silly stuff needed to finish my PhD. So yeah, he is just a people pleaser and I’m a selfish asshole that lives in the real world.

    • I see this all. How can they need so much help and be so utterly useless and yet be so absolutely necessary to all the schmoopies who need help. Oh wait, we are doing all the heavy lifting in their lives so they can go be heros for the ho bags.

  • If only he could have pleased me. I admit it, I was unpleasable. No matter what he did I was disappointed. Narcs just have that nack for appearing to lack the skills necessary to follow through or hav an original thought outside the cheaters handbook. If only the handbook was visible I could have read it and put my energies into an authentic life.

    Instead, I thought he had some type of brain injury that kept him from understanding my emotional needs. There’s nothing like receiving a flannel nightgown three sizes too big for christmas when a Victoria’sSecret gift card would have made me smile.

    Yet the cards were so loving professing his commitment in our forever relationship. And how can’t you love a guy who washed the sheets and cleaned the house, My house sparkled when I came home for the weekend. Shit he was trying to please me. What a good guy. I was disappointed it wasn’t for me, the whore was sleeping in my bed.

    His intentions were so honorable.OW/OM have an advantage over us. They understand cheater logic. The pain lessens over time and there is no longer anyone to clean my house or wash the sheets. The payoff I received after throwing him out and filing overall set him free of his failed attempts to please me and ended my disappointment.

  • Bingo! My life. Crappy excuses for infidelity. My favorite one was when ex told me that he felt responsible for the OW’s children who were not his own. But….what about our two little ones under the age of 6? He left me a note in my car with his wedding band. The note read, “take care of x and y.” Wow! That was twenty five years before I got smart and left him.

  • Me too. I always came last after the love bombing. The neighbor across the street became a caregiver for her husband about the same time as I did for my Dad. He’d say how sorry he felt for her but I was told I made too much of it, that it really wasn’t that difficult. His mother came first even in the love bomb stage and right up to the end. (Good luck with that OW) He never minded spending money on anyone but me and his supposed “best buddy”. He’d bitch to me about having to pick up the tab every other time they went out behind the guy’s back. It was all a big act to look like a great guy. He also felt sorry for his mother because his father walked out on her and five kids. For this I don’t blame him, but then he did the same thing to me (only luckily we didn’t have kids).

  • My ex-wife imagines herself as a people pleaser. But….it’s actually a persona project and managing her image to suit her main objective which is “herself”. She’s a shape shifter who gives the bare minimum of easy peasy niceness as long as it best serves her. She changes teams, leaves a group of friends for another new group of friends when her true colors begin to show and she has always claimed that women are jealous of her. She has no real long term friends and relies on the kindness of strangers who will buy her bullshit in the beginning. It’s a cycle that is below the radar and she is not kind or giving to those who no longer are of use to her..

    • Yes, people pleasers they have their own agenda. My XH works as a director head of a home for troubled boys. He works with them and their family to get their life back on track. He is suppose to be the example of a good Christian home life and father and husband. He has fooled all of his employee and the people higher up who he reports to. He comes off as a wonderful caring supportive man. Yet he was a lying, cheating husband. He has everyone fooled. He couldn’t keep his own family together because he had been seeing his OW( whore) for a long time. Meeting her for lunch without me knowing. Then at her apartment when she left her husband. BTY it has been a few years since they have been together and she is still married, no official divorce yet. I can’t understand what they are waiting for? I fear if I ever run into her I might not be the nicest person. I think the other thing, What i can’t understand is we were married for 33 years and that meant nothing to him, she was all he could see. These men and women who commit adultery are such selfish uncaring people who only think of themselves and not the ones they hurt.

      However the good news is that we have a life outside of these cheating horrible people. Lets make our life what we wants it to be. Involve people who we do trust in our circle of friends. I am hoping there are some people that are truly kind and caring. I am glad I finally get the remote at night. I don’t have to share it anymore. NO alligator show for me. 🙂 I get a full closet to fill if I want. So three are some benefits to leaving and divorcing the SOB. Let him have his girlfriend I wish them all the unhappiness they deserve.

      • Yep, closet space and remote control-control are way better than cheater mindfuckery any day of the the week 😛

        I’m def a silver-lining kind of person, so even when I’m sniffling and feeling sad about things, at least I am doing it in my cheater-free home cleared out of cheater clutter and cheater noise. Very grateful for that!

      • Wow Patty, your ex sounds just like mine. Supervisor at a group home for troubled children, affair with his insubordinate, who happens to be 30 years younger who divorced her husband after 3 1/2 months of marriage to be with my ex. His work with troubled children is a way to have a kibble feed but now his co-workers all see him for what he is and he cannot gain back that respect. The mask has fallen off to everyone else but his “little girl” is there to feed his ego and make him forget he will be 59 years old next month. It is so nice to come home to a house with no mind games, eggshell walking, gas lighting or blame shifting. Congratulations to you on having a new life and it does feel good to move forward. It all takes time but it does feel so much better. =)

  • Yeah. This excuse fits my ex-wife as well. I remember one scenario where she was super concerned about the tension in a get-together where she had a “friend” visiting along with my bff. My bff was not pleased that this dude was there…surprise, surprise. My bff knew the relationship history with this dude. My (now) ex-wife was more concerned about the “friend” being uncomfortable than the well-being of her own husband.

    Everyone needs to feel comfortable. People pleaser…except somehow I get left out of the “people” in the end as CL points out.

    • Minister,
      There is also a point where you a married to these people so you come to except some sort of niceness from them. You still say thank you and you appreciate them, but you don’t start kissing the ground the walk on. So yeah we stop counting as people. We are nowhere grateful enough.

      • Boy is that true. I recall vividly having a conversation with the ex-cheater, where I stated I can’t be like everyone at work who seemingly worships you. I remember many days feeling so un-valued, that what I did/who I was, was sooooo beneath her perfect work life, constant accolades, never ending bowl of high grade kibbles. I used to say, “Oh, let me tell you what I did today… I cured all forms of cancer before lunch, and later that day, ended world hunger”, and would then do her voice saying, “well anyways”… I felt exactly that way.

        It was really as though I was nothing but a fixture to advance her career, she was 120% of the focus, and I took it. After D-day, she even said:

        “I outgrew you”.

        Run that one through the cheater UBT. No, you deftly sucked the life force outa someone who would have gladly laid down their life for you, sacrificed all they had because I made a solemn commitment, trusted and loved you being 1000% faithful. But you liked stepping off of all of the backs that got you where your are, no strings attached kibbles served from a silo, and raunchy co-worker hookups much better. These selfish, cowardly fuckers are the apex predator of peoples souls, and must be excised from our lives.

        • @5jump. I didn’t get the whole “I outgrew you”, but I’m pretty sure Ex felt this way. He thought his career was way more important than mine. He would get so angry if I forgot to ask how his day went, but I vividly remember having a very difficult exam that I was very stressed about and he didn’t ask how it went. Meh. They are selfish and they are cowardly, and we deserve to not spend out energy giving them kibbles and being treated like ornaments. We value fidelity and commitment and there are tons of other people out there who feel the same way!!

          • When I got short and fairly cold responses to my courtesy of asking about her day, I sensed something was “off.” It was probably my first clue that the OM was in the picture now in retrospect. Ex had moved on to another kibble dispenser.

        • Wow, I felt this way, that my only purpose was to facilitate his life. He wanted to manage our properties after he retire from the military… Ok, I have a job (to pay bills and buy food) and we have a couple of properties… go for it. 10 years later after I continued to keep my job, have a child, do the bulk of the house keeping, shopping and cooking, live in a house for soooo many years that was always having things demolished and almost never having those things repaired, and being continually told I was always wrong, a half-asser, and stupid (subtly of course)… while he continued to “manage” our properties, take some classes, become involved in clubs/interests that I couldn’t really be a part of, he informed me he “kissed” one of my close friend (MOW). That is when he finally got a job, not to take some of the burden off me and fix our family, but so he could move out and take care of her… With all of that going on for I don’t know how long, how could I not be tired, boring, unmotivated, depressed and pathetic. I boiled this down to this simple true scenario. After complications from knee surgery I would fold clothes and put stuff in baskets. I would ask him to take them upstairs, he would say yep but it wouldn’t happen and he’d walked past them often, if I happened to end up taking the basket (with difficulty) up stairs when he was present he would make me feel like crap and say why don’t you just ask me to take the basket up for you… I stopped asking and would complete those things when he wasn’t around… I changed so much about myself to please him that he no longer loved me because I wasn’t the person he first met that challenged him, but after a few years he’d had enough violent out bursts that I “learned” not to stand up for myself (I wanted to keep those to a minimum). I feel I was methodically dismantled and reassembly is a fucking bitch, I don’t know where things fit and so many things I don’t recognize. Lots of extra part that seem important but…

          • >>>> I feel I was methodically dismantled and reassembly is a fucking bitch, I don’t know where things fit and so many things I don’t recognize. Lots of extra part that seem important but…

            That’s about the best description of the aftermath I’ve ever seen. Thank you HA for putting that into words

            • absolutely… what an apt description of the effect of abuse.. abuse is not “accidental” outbursts… they KNOW what they are doing… important point Lundy Bancroft makes in the book, “Why does he do that?” — precisely. They know what they are doing. My Ex even said to me after DDay when I told him I was going to see a therapist, “is it for abuse?” … Guess what? I was so scared of him that I lied and told him, “no”. I was afraid of him getting angry at me if I told the truth.

            • OMG. “Methodically dismantled”. So true! I kept thinking that I couldn’t possibly make my needs any smaller, and yet, always my needs were still too much, too unreasonable. And so I would adjust them to be even smaller.

              And yes, reassembling oneself and readjusting all one’s needs back to their original true-to-self size is a massive undertaking. Years of therapy just to learn the underlying theory, and then more years to take what I learned out into the field for a test drive, bring it back into therapy and examine under a microscope, reassemble, re-test… rinse and repeat until I know I got it all the way right that time!

              And wow, it is so worth it for that feeling of finally getting it all the way right. Hang in there, you might have a bewildering pile of spare parts left over at first, but the pile shrinks with time, and somewhere along the way what is left is garbage that you can discard without worry.

  • Oh wow, this is so true.

    Big Hero for others, but when the kibble supply dried up and I went grey rock on him, I’d get anger bombs accompanied by big fat tears, loud sobbing “in private” (with his bedroom door open so I’d be sure to hear), and finally, the high-drama Poor Sausage performance. “You don’t like the way I barbecue! You keep the lights too low! You buy off-brands at the grocery store! You don’t want to listen to my drunken pity party! waaahhhh waaahhhh waahhh! I will now fuck someone I found while trolling personal ads!”

    I so wish I had recorded this bullshit.

    • And now, in hindsight, I see that quite possibly someone else was hearing this crap when he was grooming me to be his appliance.

    • I got the “off brand groceries” shit too. And always had to have snack cakes and when Hostess (this might be a regional thing) went out of business I started to buy Little Debbie’s and got accused of doing so because I was cheap. No, the damn company went out of business and it was the closest substitute I could find.

      • its always got to be the best for them….( not comparing twinkies to tiramisu) but always the best. No box store name brands or sales. $400 work boots… 2 pairs . $200 sunglasses. But they couldnt give a shit that your kids got holes in their socks… Or that the music lessons need to be paid for.

        • Multiple pairs $100.00 sneakers, $100.00 + RayBans that I bought for him (he broke the first pair almost immediately and chump that I am I bought him another pair), the SatNav for his car. I got my clothes at Walmart or thrift shops. Oh how I wish I’d taken that SatNav back before he left. His friend had one and he kept talking about how much he liked it so I got him one for Christmas. Cheap selfish bitch that I am. The last trip that we went on I wanted to buy a pair of shoes and he screamed at me in the store over them so I got nothing.

          • Thinking about those damn RayBans-the lack of appreciation. And I did the SAME THING with the SatNav. He was too lazy to disconnect and put it away one night so his car window got smashed and someone stole it. Chumpy me got him another. Then he asked me not to tell anyone why his window got smashed. Image management. No wonder my therapist says I need to work on my self esteem.

        • Yup, with mine it was Diesel jeans and Armani jackets (though wanting the “best” butted up against his cheap streak so the jackets were purchased only if on sale).

          • Mine used to get his sneakers at the outlet but started ordering them from Zappos so he didn’t have to have me along for the ride or buy me anything when we got there.

            • That is so freaking weird. My first ex (DrillChucker) was cheap and selfish like that. New furniture or rugs for the house would only come from our joint account if he felt like approving the purchases. Otherwise, I paid for it all. He paid for booze and golf (which he excluded me from even though his friends would invite me along) out of the joint account though. He would pay for his clothes from the joint account but heaven forbid i do that. Asshat is usually the one trying to convince me to buy things if we happen to be at a store. I almost always decline bc i have a ton of stuff. Then when he is raging, he accuses me of wasting money and spending like crazy. Dickwad.

        • Wow, they really are so similar. My cheater would buy $600 sunglasses while I couldn’t afford to replace the kids’ socks with holes.

          Take the kids to disneyland or skiing? No way – because we can’t afford it, but we can afford to fly to some far away place for a triathalon and of course she can’t miss the girls weekend in San Francisco.

          And when I started buying less expensive groceries, she refused to eat them and would only buy organic food from a local grocer. (Don’t get me wrong, if I wasn’t declaring bankruptcy and had plenty of cash flow, I’d prefer to eat organic too, but I was trying to cut our grocery bill from $2000/month to $600/month.)

          • Omg, the groceries

            He did all the grocery shopping, everything had to be organic, free range, artisan, whatever, as long as it was expensive. He was spending over $1000 a month on groceries (more than his frickin salary), which for a family of three in our part of the country, is absurd.

            My grocery bill now for me and my son is less than $300 a month. Actually, I’ve noticed how much less of everything we use now.

            • Oh yeah, THIS! Obsessive compulsive asshat would buy three $10.00+ slabs of salmon a week claiming “it was for the family. We need to eat more fish.” The two kids and I would eat about a quarter of it between us (suppressing the gag-reflex) and he would finish the rest at one sitting, selfish pig that he was. He lost 80 pounds before he left, but is gaining weight now living with Schmoopie (and her mother!) because he’s eating all the “fried food” the puta’s mama is cooking all the time.

    • People who insist on designer brand shit is a massive red flag – its actually one of my dealbreakers.
      You don’t need that $500 pair of shoes – the ones which are $40 at the local shop are perfectly fine, and you can buy 12 pairs of those which will FAR outlast those $500 ones.

  • My Idiot not only played the ‘ good guy ‘ card , he also wore a badge. He would select his victims very carefully. Always making sure he got the most return. He would tell me’ you have no idea how many women throw themselves at me all day. Its the curse of the bagde’
    The Badge… His suit. He would groom excessively. The name plate adjusted 4 times so it sits just right. A ritual. Like a beauty queen preening. Not a hair out of place.
    The blind trust he manipulated out of so many people. He could do no wrong and say no evil. He was an officer, former decorated Marine too. All American hero. No one questioned him. And when he found time to help u… U pitious peasant… U basked in the glow of his gloriousness.
    When the cracks in the facade started to tarnish the idol…. People pitied him. ‘ its the stress of the job’ ‘ PTSD’ you name it , people had an excuse for his behavior. He WAS untouchable.

    • Mine was an officer, and also a former marine as well. Abused his status in the same way you described. Ugh and gross.

  • After all this time looking at this person I married wondering who the hell he is. After the “I had to go to work while you stayed home to raise our kids and didn’t earn money to help ” and ” the stress of being estranged from my whacked out father and brother who is prison was how I dealt with my stress” and all those times he gave food to the church or just had to attend fancy after hours “dinner meetings” because he had to please his boss. I finally know who he has been all along.
    “Eustace”.

  • It really comes down to an ends to a means. There is always some ulterior motive for whatever they do. There is always some sort of hidden agenda of something they want. The entitlement etc. that they have is obvious and all of their actions usually lead to self-serving even if they appear to be full of kindness. I’ve learned after being with someone who is like this that the only way to spot them is overtime. They put on a great show for the first few months of dating but at some point their real personality starts to show. It could something as simple as driving down the street and not stopping to let someone cross the road or letting your neighbor adjust their car (which they already started) before trying to drive past (which then almost causes an accident). There are lots of ways to spot this and you just need to be patient when dating someone.

    I see people date on speed dial now a days. I know one person whose new boyfriend moved in when they hit the 2 month mark of dating (and she has kids). This unicorn style of thinking is what gets people into situations like this. They get fooled by the self-serving narcissistic individuals because they want something real and sometimes do not want to be patient about it.

    Point is when dating; wait for the honeymoon phase to wear off before you make drastic decisions. You will know when that is once you start seeing things you do not like about your partner (there is always something you do not like about someone). Then go over the list and see if any of these things are potential narcissistic flags and if they are not then read over the list and see if these are things you can live with. Do not try and convince yourself they will change because they WILL NOT! So ask yourself can you live with those issues and if the answer is yes then move forward if the answer is no then STOP dating them.

    • I’m not interested in dating but if I ever change my mind I will look out for Mama’s Boys first thing. Although at my age it’s probably no longer an issue.

    • My ex put on a good show for many, many years. I do believe he was trying to be the good person he wanted to be, at some point he gave that up, but he still wore the mask for a very long time. It didn’t start to drop until he got his name on the house, even then it wasn’t huge. After he got me to marry him, that’s when he let it go more quickly but still the manipulation was very strong and convincing.

      • Dat- same here. My stbx did a fine fine acting job. I wasn’t looking for deceit and all the rest of the cheater narc signs bc I trusted him and he acted like a good person. I didn’t know he was exploiting the love and trust I had for him to lie, cheat, betray……That’s how he managed to stay undercover for so long. I think he did want to be or saw himself as a good person, but things in his secret life escalated and the mask did slip here and there, but not enough that it couldn’t be explained away or maybe he apologized kinda to smooth things over so he could pick up with whatever he’d been doing again. Keeping me unsuspecting was a big part of how he pulled it off for so very long.

        Until I was blindsided by Dday I would’ve bet everything I owned against the truth that he betrayed me. If someone had told me, instead of me finding the evidence myself, I stupidly wouldn’t have been able to believe it. At least not at first. He was really good at manipulating me and the premeditation it took to pull off such long term deceit and multiple betrayals leaves me sick if I get to thinking about it too much. There were no obvious red flags for me to see. Probably seems impossible, and it seemed impossible to me as well until I really looked at my situation. The things that maybe could’ve pointed me in the right direction weren’t so egregious that I would jump to the conclusion that he was cheating or lying or a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He was very careful and guarded. I really thought he loved me and our kids and was just a quiet, hardworking introvert who had a job that required a lot of hours. It did require a lot of hours, but not nearly as many as he was taking. I couldn’t have known that unless I’d worked there myself. In retrospect I can see some things, and all together with what I know now they do produce a pretty good sized red flag, but not until Dday and after I found out about the cheating. This is what bothers me the very most. That I had NO idea. None. I have a hard time trusting myself even still.

        • This just triggered a memory–while mine was in the thickest part of his pick-up-strangers-on-web-sites to screw in the middle of the day, he started attending “family” events MORE–back to school nights, theater productions of the kids, etc. Before that, I had attended everything alone. Publicly portraying himself as a family man was a nice way to balance out his private debauchery, I guess.

  • My STBX always loves to play the hero for other people. He told me “I just love helping people.” By people he means people other than his family. I would have to ask him repeatedly to do something and he would just think I was a nag but if someone else asks he jumps right on it. He had to “help” all his OW’s, then the flirting and flattery would start and he just can’t resist that (it would be to hard to say I’m married, we can’t talk like this, don’t want to hurt potential girlfriend’s feelings). His latest “true love” ( he has been deeply in love with all of them, can’t have sex without love) has only dated losers and criminals (except for my STBX who is her perfect boyfriend except for the minor problem of him being married with four kids) and she deserves a good boyfriend. She has worked hard to stop being a skank and my STBX needs to help her be a better person. He needs to be a father figure for her kid (because kids dad is a drug dealer and pimp). He just dumped his loyal wife and kids to “help” this woman and her kid, who he barely knows. I have no idea why I stayed after the other affairs and put up with this crap for so many years!

    • Spackle and sparkles. It’s because he’s terrible. Lol. There’s no untangling it. And you were so busy trying, and so clouded by how good he seemed from the outside you never saw he was sucking you dry.

    • Oh yes! I could ask him to change a light bulb and a week later I would ask if he could get to that (knowing that if I asked him more than once in the same day or shortly after, I too was a nag.) BUT – If the neighbor needed a lightbulb changed – he was out of the house in seconds flat.
      It reminds me of him tilling gardens. He bought himself a tiller a few years back and would till gardens for people for beer (they never paid in cash – just cases of beer). 2 years ago – JUST BEFORE I found out about his fuck phone, he decided not to till a garden for me that year. That was something that should have been a given. He had all the time in the world to till other peoples gardens, but couldn’t find the time to till my garden just behind the shed. After I found out about the fuck phone – then it made sense why he hated ME. That was right around mothers day too when I got from him “Why should I wish you a happy fucking Mothers Day? You aren’t my fucking mom!”

  • It’s obvious that cheaters resent their spouse who sees the real him/her. It’s as though being seen as not special is a threat to their persona.

    • Yep. Because for the disordered types, it really IS a threat to their carefully crafted charade when a significant other sees through the mask, or starts to have regular, day-to-day-life expectations of them. It’s only good when it’s the honeymoon, “Oh, you’re so WONDERFUL” stage.

    • Good point PF,

      and my cheater used this as a reason for her cheating, saying that SHE was the one who had to walk on eggshells and that I had a sharpness. to me. Trust me, I might not be dull, but I am not abrasive or “sharp”.

      But yeah, I did have resentment over her narcissistic ways, and if that resentment “caused” her to cheat, then so be it.

  • Did anyone else hear the inverse of this? Instead of arguing that he was trying to please the OW (no effort required due to their “unreal” connection), my husband argued that he had lived his whole life as a people pleaser doing only what everyone else wanted him to do (news to me) and now he was finally doing something for himself. Also supposed to be taken as noble. Never mind the wife and three small kids, or the OW’s husband and kids.

    • I heard a version of this — I remember feeling incredulous when he said I’d never really supported him, when I felt like I’d given up everything I wanted in order to support him. By the way, achieving his dreams never fulfilled him. As soon as he achieved the “dream” that was supposed to make him happy, he’d come up with a new dream he had to pursue to make him happy. It was exhausting.

      • Same here! No matter what he achieved, it was never good enough. The minute he got what he wanted, he wanted something new. It was absolutely exhausting. He collected needy people, too, the needier the better! The minute I needed him, though, he was nowhere to be found. I was always supposed to “tough it out” or “just get over it already.”

        He had to be the hero, the man in the white hat and like you, Lyn, post D-day I was told how much she needed him and appreciated him, while I never acted like I did. He was correct. I had long ago learned not to rely on him for any sort of emotional support. Why? Because I knew I was never going to get it from him! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Now, I am glad I kept my independence, as it the adjustment to single life has not been that difiicult. The reality is I was living alone anyway; I just didn’t know it yet. Except for the fact that he always controlled the damn remote. What is it about that?

      • I worked full-time and handled our finances while she quit work to be a part-time student. She also had a 15 year-old son and we had a Little Brother who lived with us if he wasn’t in school.

        I was really messed up due to depression and finally working through some FOO issues. I admittedly didn’t pay enough attention to chores, yet I never complained if something didn’t get done. She told me that she couldn’t depend on me and that she wanted a real partner.

        I know I’ve mentioned all of that before. The problem is that I still believe her that I messed things up so badly that she had nothing left to give me.

        • WhichWay, even if your depression was wearing on her, it was still terribly wrong for her to make the decision to cheat. There are many better, more appropriate ways to deal with that. My husband suffers from depression. There have been times when I have carried a much heavier load of household chores, kids, etc., and faced difficult moods, etc. It would never lead me to cheat on him. I would have always been willing to see through the depression, especially if I could see that he was getting help/trying to address it. It sounds like you were trying to handle and work through your depression and other issues the best you could. I wish my husband had handled it as you did, but I think he ultimately self-medicated with the high of the affair. Guess the thing is that there’s just no legitimate justification for cheating.

          • Thanks for the reply, Stitch, and as I’ve said before, I’m jealous of anyone with a partner willing to weather depression. The level of suckiness can’t be described. And then to read of folks with the support I dream of throwing it away?

            I don’t know that she cheated on me. She loved me and thought I was a great partner until she didn’t. I got no opportunity for couples thetapy or for reconciliation. She was (what seemed to me) suddenly 100% over me. I was too cowardly to look for evidence of cheating, but even if she was sexually faithful, she lied to and manipulated me until the savings account was nearly empty. If I had thought she was going to leave there’s no way I would have continued to financially support her. I feel used.

            • WhichWayDidSheGo – You, and all of us chumps, not only felt used, most of us WERE USED, we were played in a game of which we did made aware of the full rules. She might not have cheated, but she lied to you, and that is more than enough for you to justify ending your relationship with her.

              It is difficult for any of us chumps to fathom how our partners could be so callous to throw our lives together out without a sliver of remorse (except the naugahyde type of course – http://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/real-remorse-or-genuine-imitation-naugahyde-remorse/).

              Please learn as much as you can about the Cluster B relationship cycles (see for example http://www.waking-you-up.com/cluster-B.html, or “Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist” by Margalis Fjelstad). Keep feeding your mind with data and stories, keep getting professional support, do all this and practice extreme self-care until you internalize that the relationship you believed you were in was an illusion, it was a rigged game you were unknowingly playing.

              The better you understand your ex’s personality dynamics, the better you can move forward with the heart wrenching grief that is part of each chump’s recovery and ultimately the foundation upon which to build our best post-liar/cheater life.

              (((WhichWayDidSheGo)))

      • I also got accused on being not supportive, mostly because I dared to ask questions when he wanted to spend our money to fulfill one of his “dreams” but he was never happy. I made sacrifices for us (chose a different grad school when he didn’t get in to any of the top 20 schools), but I was sill the not supportive partner. He never had to sacrifice anything for me, it was always me making my needs smaller.

        He doesn’t know how to be happy though, when he achieves something he gets a high and that high quickly dies down. His summer internship was the most awesome thing that had ever happened to him, and I failed to appreciate how epic it was. By the end of the summer, he thought all of his coworkers (except his AP) were idiots and he was the only competent one. If he stopped working for them (for free and as a junior researcher) everything would have collapsed. He then went between thinking the institute was beneath him, and saying it was such an accomplishment and so impressive that he got to work for them during the summer. Bleh. They are just not happy people.

        @WhichWay, please do not believe that you messed things up. People like your ex, they want to suck all the energy. Life is difficult, people are not all constant balls of happiness. You need to be there for when your partner is going through a hard time, not expect them to always be the ones to be there for you and “give” to you.

    • WORD FOR WORD!!!! That was what kept me stuck in trying to untangle the skein for so long until I realized what a loaded sack of shit excuse that is for being a pathetic cheater! How could he be so unhappy and faking it for so long and I have no idea?!?! Because I am a chump and he sucks. Plain and simple! His story is our divorce had nothing to do with the 23yr old HO-worker but the “sudden unhappiness” which was lifelong and he is finally doing something for himself instead of what everyone else wanted him to do! Yes, screwing over your partner, best friend and wife and not to mention blowing up the life, family, home and security of your 5 year old son SHOULD come second to your “happiness” because you are such a big man now standing up for what you want! Boo fucking hoo- grow up you weak ass little man child! That is one of the main things I am looking for in my upgrade- a REAL man! Who can express his feelings in a healthy and actually express them OUT LOUD!

      • Seems like we all married the same man! I could have written almost every one of these posts! The OW “makes” him happy in a way I “never” could– wth?! He just met her, in an elevator she was trolling for successful male attorneys like my H who is 18 years younger! However, the truth was we had 23 years of rarely an argument, I thought we were best friends, legal colleagues, running partners, we had great sex….then sudden unhappiness and he’s “hated” everything about our marriage, our family, our home for “ten years!” Huh? He never said a word! He actually screamed that at our 4 children, the youngest responded through huge sobs, “then you’ve hated my whole life because I’m 10!” Omg — how could I have tolerated this abusive fuck in my life… Even after he did this in March (2015) I did the extreme pick me dance for 4 more months…even after he abandoned us for the OW. Im ashamed at myself but I understand now my mind and common sense was altered by his abusive Mindfuckery. I’m doing no contact on good days and refused false reconciliation- good thing because on day after pleading with me for an hour, learned he’d taken off for a 12 day vacation in Cabo with the OW! Complete liar! And, while he was there he was trying to email me daily “how are you, please do our taxes…..!!! And, texting our 16 yo daughter that he wasn’t having fun. OMG….. what a waste of space he is!

        • Omg your kids! ? that is a horrific thing to say in front of your kids but even more horrific to say it TO them! What a class A fuckwit piece of steaming shit. I can’t believe it, but yet I can, because they just don’t care about anyone but themselves. I’m not sure how I would’ve reacted if my stbx had screamed that at our kids. It makes me angry and teary for you and yours. Hug them lots and love each other. They won’t forget that and hopefully they’ll want to go NC …what a complete fucking crapweasel he is. Forge ahead and be mighty!

    • yup, ex told daughter how hard it was, spending 23 yrs doing what everyone else expected of him (me, his family, my family) and that he felt as if he was drowning. No one held a gun to his head, and he never spoke up about it; all revisionist history.
      On the flip side, ex was always a “knight in shining armor” type, always helping female friends with their relationship issues. Things I wish I had known at 17….

    • “and now he was finally doing something for himself.”

      Christ, my ex POS said:

      “It’s the first thing I ever did just for me”

      Yeah, I bet honey… Right up there with:

      “If you were a better fucking husband, it never would have happened”

      “I don’t have to tell you shit”

      • Yup. The first thing he ever did for himself. Got that one, too. I was told that making the decision to finally do something for himself was “exhilarating.” Gutting.
        Of course I was also told “she’s like this shiny thing.” That one kinda creeps me out.

          • I’m still placing my ducks so no one knows I’m a chump or that I know it. Just got my birthday card from in laws this weekend – “thanks for making ****** finish school” (their son finally finished his degree and can get a real job (but still hasn’t)) … 1) I can’t make him do anything so aside from paying for it I did fuck all, I can even get him to keep it in his pants. 2) what the fuck does that have to do with my birthday. Even my birthday is overshadowed with what he finally finished. Seriously.

            Oops. Maybe I’m entering the angry stage.

          • 5jumpchump, were we married to the same fourth grader???? Good chump that I am when I heard this I wanted to go out and buy him a set of sparkly glitter pens so he could write “I (heart) Cindy” all over his notebook!!! Dillweeds all of them.

          • I got the butterfly comment as well. I just stared, because how could we have that initial butterfly thing going on after two decades? Love matures, idiot.

    • Yes. The happiness that is a moving target. The sudden revelation of lifelong unhappiness. The revisionist history. Mine–who had been a dedicated, involved, and seemingly content husband, best friend, father–said he had just never realized he had been unhappy (still trying to even wrap my mind around that logic) until he got involved with the OW, but otherwise it had nothing to do with her. WTFever. He said all his decisions had always been made based on what everyone else expected him to do. It’s not even clear who he thought had these expectations of him, and for many of them I’m not sure who else would have cared what he decided.

      • Stitch, my ex said the exact same things, pretty much word for word. He claimed he was very happy for our 20 year marriage, right up until Dday when it all switched to utter misery from the beginning. Said his sudden change of heart had nothing to do with OW, but that he had an “epiphany” while on a family vacation months earlier. Said his entire life’s decision to that point (marrying me, having a steady career) were because his dad had been verbally abusive when he was a kid.

      • Same with X, I remember going for coffee with him, after he moved out (but before I knew about OW) to talk about what he wanted. He told me that he had been unhappy for years, which was news to me, and that he had been discussing what he should do “with everyone” for years as well. Except me, of course. I asked him what he wanted to do and he said he was tired of doing “everything to please everyone else” (I guess I wasn’t “everyone”, as I sure don’t remember a lot of pleasing coming my direction over the years).

        He finally looked at me with tears in his eyes, and choked out in a despairing voice, “I just want a little happiness!” Such drama. Such pathos. I am so glad I am not the audience for that any more.

        • I got almost the exact same scene. Tearful “I just want to be happy.” Drama + pathos + entitlement creates quite a storm.

          And then his family and others started assuring him that if he was happy everyone else would be too. You know, “happy parents happy kids.” No oversimplification there; there’s nothing like exploding and devastating your family to create great happiness for them.

    • I got the opposite complaint, that I did too much for other people at the expense of him. Apparently, this consisted in doing 95% of the parenting, coaching our kids’ soccer teams (so yes, it was for other people–our children), and writing a lot of comments on student papers (you know, my job) in the evenings while we watched TV. Guess I should have been acting out his 3-hour porn fantasies instead of grading. Who knew?

      • Tempest, the problem was that you weren’t grading his students’ papers! How selfish of you to grade only your own students’ papers!

        (Unless you were grading his students’ papers as well, in which case you obviously had a time management problem because you were supposed to be able to grade papers, pay attention to his brilliant ongoing analysis of The Walking Dead, and rub his feet. Sheesh!)

      • I got some of that, too, Tempest. The way I felt about him taking time, attention, energy away from us for his affair was apparently the same as how he felt when I spent time working and on the kids. Somehow those things don’t seem the same to me.

  • This rings true. My ex was always helping out everyone else (kibbles!) but not for his own kids, his own wife, own home.

    Here’s the thing….I was very complimentary all the time of him. I gave him tons of kibbles. It just wasn’t enough.

  • I took the “people pleaser” excuse totally. My stbx gave that reason after I found out she slept with an ex while we were dating. Now 28 years later, I am the victim of several affairs. At least 3 AP’s that I know of. If chump lady had just existed 28 years ago maybe I could have avoided wasting most of my life on her. It’s comforting to read that others are the victims of the PP personality. I also got the I can’t ever please you bs. It was rare that I ever criticized her. But in the end, she told me I was a tyrant when she started the first affair. With the help of CL and CN, I now realize it really wasn’t my fault at all she had an affair. Probably not even half my fault that the marriage failed. I was fighting an losing battle. I would have never been a good enough person for her. And the signs were always there. She only has one long-term friend. She was never friends with anyone for an extended period. Always moved on to a new one when conflict would arise with a current friend. I never really thought much of it. They were always to blame. Generally, it was they became mean and judgemental of her. So many red flags that I spackled over. CL, thank you for this blog. It’s be very educational for me. Maybe one day I will have a healthy relationship based on everything I have learned here.

    • She was never friends with anyone for an extended period. Always moved on to a new one when conflict would arise with a current friend. I never really thought much of it. They were always to blame

      So much truth in that. My stbxw had the same “defect”.

      • Everyone was always to blame with ex. If someone didn’t like his work it was because they were an ‘idiot’. If someone questioned him about something he said it was because they were an ‘idiot’. Everyone was an idiot, it would seem, except those few chosen for the golden circle. He had one longterm friend and that was it. His parents are exactly the same. Everyone always ends up a disappointment and an idiot.

    • Yes, Lostntx–your marriage, like most of ours, was doomed from the start. There is not room for two people in a relationship with a cluster B. They squash you down, then complain that you’re a shell of your former self. Lose-lose for the chump, always.

  • Have to share mine. She was a big people pleaser.. but not a husband pleaser. Her family first…

    So she was always the “black” sheep of the family. She was the pretty sister.. but older sister was everything to her family. She had mommy issues (red flag).They never liked any guy who visited their daughters… would fake it, but behind 2 years ago , sister got remarried (was divorced) to a douche nugget of a guy. Dumb as brick, think sun shines out his ass.

    So we host a small party on new years 3-4 years ago. Sister and husband pitches up. He is semi drunk already. I don’t say anything (i don’t drink).. and later that evening he starts following my wife around , and makes her uncomfortable.
    His wife just sits on her phone ..doing nothing. I almost kicked him out. Friends there is amazed at this douche behaviour. He even hits on them (female friends).

    The next day my wife argues with me about his behaviour. She justifies his behaviour. We had arguments for weeks, and all I wanted her to say is “SDK, you are right. He was wrong”. THAT is all.

    Gets better.. her parents get involved now. I just keep my point.. but they don’t believe me (after knowing me 15 years, never giving them crap).

    Then I knew this is not going to work. She would please her parents, family, kids , sister etc.. but not me, her husband. I was good enough for the money.. but when push comes to shove, she would not take my side (where I used take her side when she had issues with friends that she caused).

    In my life, never again date a people pleaser.

    • Hear, hear! My ex also came from a toxic family that repeatedly disrespected me (and everyone else who married into the family). His sister’s husband divorced her for cheating as well.

      He would always agree with them when they were around; he never once defended me. Sometimes, when we were in private, he would concede, “I know they’re messed up” but always added the caveat: “You have to rise above it; you have to be the better one!”

      In retrospect, I suppose I should thank my former in-laws for being so awful. If they had loved me and treated me well, I might’ve been too attached to give them up. It was such a relief to be rid of them.

      • exactly… she would sell me short to family. Her family always before me. She always needed/crave the validation from her parents. It was in her DNA … she would shit me out when we got married because I asked my mother for insurance help. But yet, she would be at her parents on daily basis for her needs.

        Luckily I never bonded that much with her parents.

        And one of these days, I’m divorced from her and them!

        • Amen SDK. You will feel so much better post divorce, having time and space away from the cheater. Your true self will return like a long lost friend. It will feel comfortable, warm and familiar. Although I have much to figure out, regaining myself was the best outcome of divorce, and I will never let it slip away again.

      • I’ve written this before, but my ex’s family say things like, “Spouses come and go, but siblings are forever.” It always bugged me that ex put his sisters before me — the whole bunch of them have a weird, emotionally incestuous relationship. I used to think they were a Normal Rockwell happy family. It took me years to really understand how very screwed up they are.

        • Yes! Exactly this, GIO!

          I used to wonder wtf was wrong with ME. This is the same weird ass family dynamic I experienced with cheater and his fake ass sparkly family.

          I remember being angry after I learned one of my SILs went behind my back to complain to asshat about a conversation I had with her. It was a boundary defining issue between SIL and myself. I remember asshat being very angry at me and me thinking, “why doesn’t he just marry his fucking sister?!”. And I remember asking him, why on earth does a grown woman passive aggressively castigate me instead of having an adult discussion with me on the issue.

          I come from a family of 5 siblings. We are close. We are considerate. We are NOT emotionally incestuous.

          • Early in our marriage, I actually had to tell ex that no, he could NOT have a weekly dinner/dance date with his sister. Seriously, they wanted to go out together once a week without me. I made a fuss and the idea was dropped, but it was held against me as an example of what a killjoy, bad person I was.

          • His family was selfish and cheap. I thought he was different. The way to gain attention from them and fit in was to degrade me. He never stuck up for me. I focused in our family. They complained about me spending my money on private schools for my children. They had cookouts and said I wasn’t invited. I was always kind regardless. His mom dislikes the whore and his family doesn’t like her either. He’s trapped with no one, not even his own children or granddaughter. I’m free.

          • Brilliant corollary, Tempest!

            MIL, siblings, children, grandchildren, neighbours, friends, service providers, strangers, enemies came before Virago. Their stance in an issue was far more worthy than mine. Never had my back on any issue with anyone because “there is always the other side of an issue”. Did someone mention people pleaser?

            His favourite games (with great respect for, and apologies to, Eric Berne) were LTHUSB (Let’s Tease Her Until She Breaks) and LMEAOAWHF (Let’s Make Everything An Ordeal And Watch Her Fail), followed by arrogance.

            The Spouse has left the building.
            PS Thanks to all today. This has been a real tough one and literally I made it thru by being with CN.

        • Oh my, that sounds so much like my ex and his family! They are a tight unit and all the spouses and partners that come through are easily replaced. I saw it happen numerous times but never thought it would happen to me because we were all ‘so close’.

    • Had that too, SDK.

      I was pregnant with my twins, due in 45 days, in the typical 40 wk gestation period for a single baby. One of my SILs was pregnant with her first, also due with in 30 days. There’s a ten yr age gap between us. I am older and already had two young children.

      Asshat and his brother, the father to be, decided that my small home would be ground zero for a week of drunken New Year’s Eve booze fest with 12 family members.

      I went into a series of contractions on New yrs eve due to the stress of cleaning vomit, making meals and spackling. Luckily, with rest, gallons of water, the contractions stopped. I had already decided if the contractions did not stop in an hour, I would need to get to the hospital,by ambulance or something because asshat was fucking loaded. I did end up having the babies 17 days after the NYEve bash.

      When I had initially argued about NOT hosting the drunk fest and to maybe rent hotel rooms in the city for a party zone, I was shamed by asshat. “That’s what we Do!”, he said. Zero regard for the health of his about to burst wife and babies, no regard for his kids at home, etc…. This was so telling of his shitty disrespect of me and our kids that when another episode happened 5 yrs later with the same drunken family crew, I didn’t go. This man never had my back.

      • ANC..
        you nailed it “”This man never had my back.”. My stbxw never had my back. Looking back at the past, she nailed me against the wall. I was the ATM for her (and the kids).

        Always had to be HER way, we need to go on a cruise, we need to go on vacation, we need a new car(s), but it was always HER way , HER choice of car, cruise,vacation etc. She didn’t pay for anything… and she didn’t even had my back.

        After that new years party incident, I knew Exactly how she saw me (her husband). I was not on the top 5 priority list… it actually broke my heart to see my wife of 13 years, together for 17 not having my back… I had her.

        If I didn’t have 2 kids…. I would have told her that day to GTFO.

        I have MANY more stories…

  • After Saddam learned therapy speak he was saying he was codependent, um no you didn’t DO shit for anyone except yourself dude – like the opposite of what yer sayin. I hate the codependent label, but if anyone were to own that in our relationship, it would have been me. We started out with reciprocity, I didn’t recognize his slow withdrawal of support for me until it got really bad. Yes, we want the people we love to be happy, cheaters just want to be happy themselves, doesn’t matter to them if anyone else is.

    • Heaven forfend a cheater learns therapyspeak. Poor chumps are done cooked then. Cheaters’ natural tendencies to be master manipulators + psych jargon = Hell on earth for their victims.

      • Plus if you don’t record the conversation they basically gaslight you and run you in circles about what you said or they said. Who agreed to what, the semantics, everything. Nope. Not even engaging in it.i would rather shit in my hands and clap than try to untangle the garbage jargon they’re gonna try to sell that I have already bought because of that one time when I said this one little thing that shows I already agreed. Nope.

        • I recorded several conversations, very helpful to listen to them when you are calm and can REALLY hear exactly what they are saying

          • Creative – this was damn creative and one hell of a visual. LOLOL

            “i would rather shit in my hands and clap than try to untangle the garbage jargon

            • I have to agree with Shechump. THAT is my new favourite saying. Thanks, creative. You are a star. A real blessing today.

              And I do recommend recording conversations to anyone still in the midst of the fray. I would give anything to have a few as edification and evidence.

        • I record EVERY CONVERSATION with asshat. He has a lot of “cognitive dissonance”, ya know. It helps to catch the gas lighting and other mindfuckery. I just had the pleasure of calling him out in a lie in the presence of the family therapist. He lied, I busted him realtime, he tried to gaslight and the therapist shut.him.down.

          The RELIEF I felt at that moment was overwhelming. To be validated, by a pro with asshat lying in realtime to the therapist’s face, assured me I’m not crazy. I’m not crazy. I’m not irrational. I’m not fucking devoid of character and basic humanity. It’s not me. It’s not about me.

        • May I please use “I would rather shit in my hands and clap”? That was so damn funny I think my neighbors heard me laugh!

      • My cheater X was (is?) a licensed COUNSELOR. When I finally learned the definition of gaslighting I was chilled to the bone — there’s no way he didn’t know exactly what he was doing. I really thought I was losing my mind; I used to write myself notes to remember what happened, so I knew I wasn’t imagining things.

        • It was years before I figured out the damage he caused through his expertise in gaslighting. There’s no doubt in my mind they know exactly what they are doing.
          I remember trying to explain my reality and no one understood because to others his image was intact. Finally, his mask dropped after I filed. The anger, lies, manipulation, and control became obvious to my children.

  • Whenever I hear the word “people pleaser” my blood boils.

    This was the phrase I and many others used to describe my ex… but for some reason, once we were married, I didn’t count on the list of people that my ex had to please.

    Did your wife leave you and you need a shoulder to cry on? Mr. People Pleaser will spend the whole night sulking with you over brandy and cigars, even though I’m at home alone crying about how he always ignores me. Did you need help moving? Mr. People Please will help, even if it means dropping the vacation plans we made for that weekend several months ago. Ho-worker needs help writing her English 101 essay? Mr. People Pleaser will write it for her, even though he couldn’t spend the same time and effort to finish college himself.

    It all comes to this: IMAGE MANAGEMENT. I was married to him, so my ego kibbles were bland in comparison to the praise of strangers.

    • That–image management. My cheating, law-breaking STBX is busy polishing apples at our kids’ school and in court–and spying on me through various means, repeatedly making false allegations against me in and out of court, and physically, legally, and financially harassing me. (I have to change my passwords often due to his criminality.) Sadly, he is winning in court. The (female) judge is so enamored with him that she berates/belittles me (in spite of concrete evidence that he, not I, is committing crimes), denies the kids and me money, etc. while the criminal walks free. I hope that someday soon somebody influential in the legal system gets a clue, puts the criminal in jail, and throws away the key, and then the inmates and wardens give this criminal a taste of his own medicine. I hope that my new legal counsel can protect the kids and me. I hope that someday, before I die, I can break free from the harassment by this horrid individual. I spent top dollar on my last legal team and STILL lost to insane criminal who is pro per (representing himself in court). Approaching what many consider retirement age, I have almost exhausted my life savings. What to do?

        • No. I am stuck with this judge until I die or she is removed from the bar or she retires, which probably won’t be for at least a few more decades. My very experienced attorney (my second legal team) has indicated that judges, to a very great extent, are God. He says that you can fight judges’ unjust calls that defy legal precedent and law and ignore pivotal facts, logic, and justice, but it is virtually impossible to win on appeal (in appellate court). He and I believe many other attorneys seem to urge people to go to court just so that they can keep themselves from being completely defrauded by malevolent, criminal spouses/ex-spouses. He says that, for the most part, I just have to learn to cope with the harassment because the Court doesn’t care about what crimes the malevolent party commits. And the irony of it all–my courthouse is called XYZ Justice Center.

          • She sounds disordered herself. Is there any way you can report her?
            Fucking lowlifes shouldn’t be making decisions which screw decent people’s lives up.
            And if its harassment, THEY FUCKING SHOULD CARE ABOUT IT.

  • Ding! This topic has struck a chord with me. My ex was always soooo nice, especially when we had guests visiting.

    I remember one Christmas when his parents and aunty came for dinner and he insisted on cooking everything himself from scratch he didn’t want any help from me at all.

    In hindsight I now see this was all a big show. He wanted all the glory for being such a wonderful, nice, caring person, slaving in the kitchen while I made small talk with his family. After having used nearly every single utensil in the kitchen I was the one that had the pleasure of doing the washing up all by myself. No offer of help whatsoever. Funniest thing was, I was the one that taught him how to cook and clean and do all the other shit jobs around the house that kept our home clean, welcoming and comfortable.

    Cheaters are nothing but vapid vacuums who need genuine caring chumps to give them the appearance of being human. Fuck them and their mindfuckery!!!

    • EXACTLY! Meeee Too. Asshole would invite friends over for ribs or chicken or whatever. I didn’t do much cooking – but he was the one inviting these people over. And yes – he would get all the credit. HE made a wonderful dinner – and after we were done eating, all the dishes would sit in the sink until I got around to cleaning them. Did I get any credit for cleaning up after his guests? I doubt our guests left thinking “That was so nice of LadyStrange to clean up after us.” Nope – pretty sure it was “That was sure nice of asshole to make us such a wonderful dinner.” ALL for show. Mr. nice guy.
      That kind-of reminds me of when asshole would be asked to help a friend ‘move’ while I stayed home with the kids. It was nice of those friends to take HIM out to lunch but hello – asshole helping someone move is taking time away from his kids and his wife to get a break from these kids. Nevermind lunch for me…..

  • My ex spent thousands of dollars a year on the New Age “spiritual” group where she met her AP, but when I asked for a bag from LL Bean for Christmas (the Christmas before she left), she gave it to me, then spent the next 5 months (before she ran out the door into AP’s arms and house) saying, sometimes out of nowhere, “That bag you wanted for Christmas cost over $100!”.

  • This was my X all over. Anyone but his children or wife need help, SUPER FOTY to the rescue. Out sourcing your kibble supply was his yellow brick road to happiness.

  • Yes, the ole people pleaser line.

    Talk about projection.

    Truth is, it’s the CHUMPS who are the real people pleasers. We are the ones that put up with it over and over and over again.

    Mine also laments that I didn’t give him enough positive attention.. thus the need for him to seek kibbles out somewhere else. This is a thinly veined attempt to blameshift me. To transfer the blame of his bad choices somehow onto me.

    At one point he has an IC so snookered he had him read “No more Mr. Nice Guy”. ROTFLMAO!

    • Oh yes, they go to therapy to “work on themselves”. They are really going to lie to the IC, for kibbles? I dunno but I do know that the first time he talked suicide I called his IC and told her. Saddam then says to me “I can’t see IC anymore because she talked to YOU, now I can’t trust her”. How fucked up is that? Rhetorical question…

    • Too many judges, counselors, and members of the general public have no clue about how to deal with the disordered. I wish I was still naive in that respect (if truth be told).

      • Fine by me, just make sure it is plenty tall, preferably with a jagged rocky bottom. I hope there never is a next encounter; 100% NC for over two years, and aside from a potential DD wedding/similar, or God forbid some emergency with her, it will stay that way.

        The only thing I struggle with, with regard to my DD is how she might react by my reaction to her mothers death/severe injury/whatever. If my ex-POS dropped dead tomorrow, I would actually, privately feel relief that this horrible person is no longer in her life. I hope if this circumstance arises, my adult daughter can understand why I am not devastated.

        • I often feel the same way. I have been NC with Xh for a while. In my mind, I think of him as dead. The man I knew and loved is dead to me so it is not too much of a stretch.

          I don’t plan on having another conversation with the X for as long as I live. I dread the day that the 2 grown children decide to get married or have some other event that requires people to gather. (Hopefully an elopement to Vegas in their futures!!!)

          He thought we would all live happily ever after and be friends for the rest of our lives. WTF? Not.Going.To Happen.

          Dumb ass cheater!!

          • I feel the exact same way – one step. Dreading the day I have to deal with the asshole for weddings/college graduations, etc… Except I pray my kids don’t elope to whore infested Vegas. Bahamas, Cancun, Utah…I don’t care – just NOT Vegas! Asswipe would go to Vegas for a pool tournament every year. Pretty sure that’s where and when he decided he had a horrible life/wife.

      • LMAO, Tempest. Jumping could induce butterflies in the stomach and continence of the bladder and bowels. A total win-win ;O

    • LOL, I heard that too! Funny, she acts like a 4th grader in many other ways. The jump off a bridge comment would have been awesome!
      5jump, i’m in a very similar situation. I’ve been nc for 3 months. I have no intention of ever having another conversation with her. I was just thinking today that if something happened to her or her parents I wouldn’t even go to the funeral. Just not worth it. Don’t have any idea what i’ll do when my daughters get married and have children. I guess i’ll just avoid her as much as possible. Don’t worry about your daughter understanding. I’m sure she’ll get it if she knows the truth.

  • Unfortunate true story…

    ME: ”I understand that you had sex with another dude while I was working the nightshift, but did you HAVE go so far as to wear sexy lingerie and cover him with chocolate syrup and whipped cream?”

    HER: “Actually it was all his idea, so I had nothing at all to do with it. I just wanted to make him happy.”

        • STOP! (Thwack! That’s the 2×4 of chump love).

          What’s brown and sticky??

          A stick! Not what you thought the answer was, I bet. Same with your rainbow farting unicorn.

        • Whaaaattt???? Unicorns are fictional. Document, document, document, then lawyer up and show her the chocolate-covered door.

        • Telling the details adds to the excitement. It’s a dead end. The worst type of evidence is bragging. #15 was tricked into having sexual with a married serial cheating liar with a penile implant. I forwarded her the texts he was sending me and she was mortified. The famous quote from her to me was,”you call THAT sex”? Thinking #17 must be tired of pretending no that he’s not making money and still working out with #18. There are so many needy ones willing to put up with stick dick who wets the bed. Once they are on their own the decline is tremendous. Cuckedoff, no one deserves this. Divorce works. It’s the best consequence.

    • Wow, sorry Cuckedoff. May I ask how you found this out (were remnants of chocolate sauce on your sheets)? Your X is cringe-worthy.

      • No, the cover-up was done very well. Guys-chumps tend to be a little slow. I totally believed that my wife would always be my Sweet Virgin Bride forever and evermore! She told me years later during an argument. She wanted to hurt me I guess.

  • My ex always insinuated that I was controlling because I didn’t want her smoking pot and hanging out with people with questionable morals that would try to persuade to things inappropriate for a married person. According to her, she couldn’t be herself because of me. We all know that controlling someone is impossible. Holding them accountable is a different story. She also accused me of being negative, that nothing was ever good enough because she was so benevolent and kind that she tried to be the best wife she could be. WHAT A JOKE! Looking back now it was all a setup. She was setting up to excuse herself from the marriage, mind screwing herself. They can do that. She wanted out but was too chicken to call it. So, she wormed her way into a divorce. Why did she want out of the marriage? Because she couldn’t be herself. Because she couldn’t do drugs and hang out with scumbags and ex-boyfriends. And because she couldn’t have sex with anyone but me. That’s her being herself. For the rest of us we call that monogamy. A sociopath calls it restrictions.

    • Yes, I tried to convince mine that the OW was a flaming POS.. also a potsmoker and all around bad person. Recent developments have suggested my read on her was right. Of course, he won’t ever admit it now.

    • Michael, I just decided to let him be his “potential”. Now I see just what I was keeping him from, his true self. It’s not pretty. My life has changed so much for the better. The sting is reversed when you see the outcome of their decisions once they lose the cover we provided. Thankfully, my children are adults. The personality disordered deserve to be single. It’s the great equalizer. We gain an authentic life.

  • My ex said his affair with OW was really just him trying to help her work on her marriage problems. Of course, apparently my ex’s definition of “help” was balling her in the back of our minivan while a babysitter watched her kids. Yeah, I’m sure her husband (now her ex husband) really appreciated all that “help.”

  • So much of this strikes a chord. I gave and gave and gave and somehow didn’t notice that it wasn’t being reciprocated. He told me after Dday that “he didn’t mean to fall in love with another woman” that “he was mad at me 6 years ago and then unconsciously stepped out”….excuse me? I’m pretty sure you made choices. Over and over. “I’m still a man of integrity, I just made a mistake and now have to follow my heart”. It’s mind boggling the shit he spews. It’s all about his ego and managing his image. He doesn’t understand why anyone would be angry at him for sleeping with a married woman (co-worker with kids) and ultimately leaving his wife of 12 years and their three young sons. He actually had the audacity to tell my BFF “If you met her (AP) you’d really like her”. I’m still in the grieving, angry, confused sh*t storm so it’s shocking to discover all the ways I was a chump and constantly stroked his ego. Learning to be free…slowly, as the heartache is so overwhelming. At times unbearable. 10 months out and still feel incredibly hurt and sad that he imploded our marriage and family.

    • “Learning to be free…slowly, as the heartache is so overwhelming. At times unbearable. 10 months out and still feel incredibly hurt and sad that he imploded our marriage and family.”
      Me, too.

    • Lemon, Stitch and Cuckedoff, the pain will recede, Jedi hugs ya’ll.

      As to this: He actually had the audacity to tell my BFF “If you met her (AP) you’d really like her” they are all assholes, my ex not only said that to my BFF, he asked to bring her over to my BFF’s house. He also told me I’d really like her but couldn’t meet her because she is afraid of me, it’s all such bullshit.

      • Amazing how they think in their sick minds you somehow still want to be friends with them. Such a shame you didn’t get a chance to meet her! She could’ve been your new BFF. Dumbass

      • LMAO, is it ANY FUCKING WONDER – of COURSE she should be afraid of you!
        If any OW was stupid enough to confront me, her head would be put through a wall. I’m deadly serious. Fortunately, none of them have been stupid enough to do that.

    • The heartache is unbearable. After 15 months I finally got his words out of my head. I’m taking back my power and no longer wait for karma to strike. Perhaps karma has already hit. The small but meaningful things I cherish grow stronger as the pain deminishes. I had a dream last night he was sitting in a walkway playing a drum for money with his whore looking lovingly at him as he begged for money. At first it bothered me but then I thought about how happy he looked begging with a pig by his side. It no longer matters what he does as long as I have my own life. Loving my life now.

  • Amazing! Satan ac’tually said, “My greatest wish is to find a woman that likes the taste of charcoal!” What the hell???? Amazing these disordered assholes are all so much alike! Two years of grilling for myself I find it is actually not the charcoal I don’t like its the lighter fluid taste! Wha!!!! Satan would use too much and throw the food on before the lighter fluid could burn off…yuck! I use lump coal and start it in a ‘chimney’ no fluid taste or smell 🙂 Yum!!!!

    And yes to the people pleaser antics! Called himself ‘your favorite neighbor’ to all our neighbors…now that they have seen the real him not s’much! Since he imploded our life all that neighborly love stopped…uh oh…I’m told the properties we owned (that he had to buy me out of) aren’t even being maintained. Sad sausage apparently can’t handle the reality of his actions. People know he sucks. He knows he sucks. AP/OW skank dumped him before our divorce was final, so even skank knows he sucks.

    I also got the ‘poor girl is in an abusive marriage’ routine once I’d seen his secret cellphone… I rolled up my sleeves and asked him if she was all bruised up like I was…and informed him that if he ever touched me in anger again I would call the police…which I did…they took satan away 🙂 I filed the next day.

    I met satan for dinner 1 month before our final court date (at my lawyer’s request – she asked me to talk to him because he kept trying to stop the divorce and it was just costing us both more money). Satan cried and begged me to let him come home!!!! He said, “I’d like to come home if you can let this go.” WTF!!!! He had meowed at me for 6 months whenever I would try to talk to him (you can’t make this shit up…I thought he had a brain tumor!) so…I almost meowed at him when he said that to me. I just asked him if he would take me back if I had done to him the things he did to me…he sobbed and said no. I left.

    I’m 8 months divorced and 5 months in my new home thirty-five minutes away from satan and my home of 30 years and I am healing well and inching ever closer to meh…and it’s Tuesday 🙂 We are all gonna be so much better off with our feet on the solid ground of the certainty that we are free of the insanity of disordered, entitled, shallow assholes that have obviously polluted our lives just to boost their soul sucking egos!

    We are all MIGHTY! 🙂 Journey on Chump Nation!!!!!

  • My husband has some sort of disordered Madonna whore thing going on. Calls me perfect when he’s not enraged at me, and basically never wants to have sex. Then blows all his money on sluts, who basically are willing to do… All the same things I am. Because I love sex. So what’s the deal? They’re not perfect? (Wait five minutes until I have an opinion and he gets pissed, then I’m not perfect but he’s too emotionally “hurt” to fuck me…) or… I don’t need him enough? I should be this wilting flower and then he will have to fuck me to save me? Yeh that’s probably it. Gag.

    • Yes to the Madonna / whore thing but that isn’t really all there is. Saddam withheld sex from me once he convinced me to marry him because he knew it was very important to me. its about power and control, let me take one of the most important things from you and watch you dance for me trying to get it back

        • creative – I’m So there with you on the Madonna thing. He was a mama’s boy and often said (when we really really dug deep into a discussion of not having sex) that having intercourse with me reminded him of purity. Like.His.Mother.

          I would have LOVED to have been his whore in the bedroom and really did try hard. Such a great sex life before I married him (not with him but with boyfriends). Tell me again why we never had intercourse before we were married and dating a year? (to him, it wasn’t right – just bj’s and hj’s. Against his religion? No. Probably doing something against the O/W – His Mother.

          Red flag anybody? My hormones were screaming!

          Never marry a mamas boy. Or somebody that won’t have sex with your before marriage. DUH. Isn’t that what the dating scene is about?

      • Dat…exactly! He withheld sex from me knowing it was a basic need of mine not being met. It was like “I have something you want…but I’m not giving it to you”. He actually told me one day when I asked him why he was looking at porn but not coming to me….”to punish you”. ( I can’t believe I stayed ) Then he’d go pay for whores. He knew I was more than willing to do all the things he was paying for, but he chose the control. He actually enjoyed causing me pain, which of course, makes him a sociopath. The karma bus can’t come soon enough for me.

          • HeLoveMe, Dat and Creative. From everything I’ve learned off this website, one of the most hurtful things to me was the X withholding sex from me. I felt rejected all the time. I tried dancing topless on the beach, I tried dancing sexy on the top of counters, I tried getting under his desk to give him a b/j while he was having a slow day at work. It wore on me after awhile that he just wasn’t interested or something else…Never did figure it out. But, what a complete control freak in every aspect of my life.

            What I have learned is, he felt entitled to sex from me on command, and didn’t respect me enough to even give me a back rub when I asked for one.
            You try living with yourself trying to figure out how you let THIS go on for 35 yrs??

            I have a lot of learning to do about why I let him control me like this.

            On a happier note, I was sitting in my tiny new house today with the green kitchen and just thinking…Hey, I’ve made all the decisions here for the first time. Walls torn out…paint colors, etc and it suddenly just floored me. He used to try and squash anything I wanted to create. Suddenly – he was just GONE from my decisions. How odd. How freeing.

            Now, I am in control – what a concept!

            • SheChump…I can relate!! I did the pick me dance so often and bought all the little Victoria Secret lingerie until I just got tired of dancing. Now I realize that I could have BEEN a Victoria Secret model and it still wouldn’t have made any difference. It was all about the control, not desire.

              Congrats on your new house!! I keep dreaming of when I’ll be able to say that! You are mighty!!

        • Once we chumps understand that so much of the dynamics in our relationships revolved around the cheaters’ needs for power, things start to fall into place. The control can be overt attempts to bully or coerce, covert & overt criticism or the cold shoulder, withholding information (part & parcel of affairs) or sex or affection or support or…..The specific forms that the control takes matter less than the motivation to be in control, and the depths to which they are willing to sink to get or maintain power.

  • STBX never said he’s a people pleaser, but I and some of my siblings used to hear him talk about stuff he’d do for his employees. We were all bothered by the inappropriately personal approach he used–clear boundaries being crossed. For example, he had a bunch of temp workers helping out on a project. Most of these were young women around 20-24, no education beyond high school, and often single moms. He’d buy them lunch, pay for dinners (we all went out to dinner together), etc. He’d say he was training them in IT work, but I told him he knew way too much about their personal lives, and that he needed to back off.

    He maintained that he was just being a good manager. He was taking an interest in their lives so as to better mentor them.

    OW fell into a similar category: single mom, not a lot of money, although she is 12 years younger than he is, not 24 years younger.

    Once I discovered his cheating, I realized that all of his friendship patterns involved the same kind of relationships: mostly women, mostly people who made less money than he did, had less education than he did, etc. I didn’t notice this when I was in grad school, but I did start to notice when he had about 4-5 female temp employees, and it was clear that he was crossing boundaries in the kinds of conversations he was having with them. At the time, I thought he was being naive with respect to his role as a supervisor.

    Now I think he was being predatory.

  • Same here! He’d always compliment old ladies at groceries, hed take plates back to the counter, help neighbors and strangers, how many times when he did sth shitty to me I was thinking ‘Its not that hes so thoughtless Im sure he wouldnt do that to anyone else.’ I was always furious when that happened so later he was controlling it better.. Also..often he’d meet someone and tell me about it to then add (I think he/she really likes me) . How pathetic.

  • My STBX always appears to be the pillar of the community. Plays in the Children’s Charity golf outing, Wants to sponsor Wounded Warriors on his company’s website, etc. No one in the community has seen him behind closed doors as I have though, and it ain’t pretty. They also are unaware of his little prostitute addiction. When I think of all the tears I shed, all the letters I wrote to him on how our sexless marriage was affecting me and he would get angry at me, telling me, “I’m just stressed…I drink too much…I smoke too much…I’m getting older ok?…It’s ALL about YOU though”!! Then he’d storm out of the bedroom, with his little tablet of course and would go to sleep downstairs. Now I know why he was so tired, and leading a double life has got to be exhausting and stressful….poor sad sausage, my heart goes out to him. It wasn’t until after I filed and he moved out that I found his little stash of blue pills.

    It’s been five months now and the tears have stopped, but this rage I have now after 14 yrs of being a devoted wife, and nurse to his mother and aunt meant nothing to him is all consuming.

    • The withholding sex thing!! He would pick a fight over some stupid thing and then use that as justification to go in his room (yes, we had separate bedrooms, because he “didn’t feel safe” after one particularly nasty argument where I let my anger show) and shut the door and look at porn for hours. And then he had the nerve to blame me because he wasn’t getting enough sleep! Yeah. Putting in his face time with me in the evenings was really cutting into his porn time, so to compensate he was forced to stay awake later and later into the wee hours every night. Poor thing, he was soooo exhausted! And then there was the part about how having an argument meant I deserved the silent treatment for days, if not weeks. “Just think of it… *weeks* of porn time with the door shut! :: slobber, drool :: We must fight more often! I’ll have to think up more stuff to pick fights about!”

      I can’t even call it a double whammy… more like triple or quadruple.

      • Yep. Then when you let him know the jig is up he wants kibble. All I want is to piss him off so he will leave me alone again. “How much do I have to disagree so you will go hide in your room. Let’s talk about politics and how I do things wrong…Oh maybe we can shadow box about how lost ended and what it meant so you can be furious at me again. ” I would pay money for some distance now.

        • Oh creative, that’s easy! Walk through the room having a joyous conversation on your mobile without giving any clues who it is, and ignore him the entire time. It’s even more effective if you find some multi-tasking thing you can do in full view and earshot, like making a really delicious-looking sandwich or something, which you lovingly prepare while giggling into your phone, and then sweep back to your private space carrying sandwich and conversation. Make no eye contact or acknowledge his presence in any way. It will drive him bonkers. Works very well in my experience.

            • Aw shucks! Thanks shechump! Anytime I can give a belly laugh to someone, it makes my day. 🙂

              Once I discovered how much grey rock wounded him, I worked it so hard that he finally gave me notice to pack my shit (already packed, asshole!) and get out ASAP.

              And yet, as I was rolling down the hall with a dolly loaded with my packed shit, he was following me and reassuring me that I could stay if I play nice with him and Shmoopie. Um, nope! Me and my packed shit and my “insufficient” contribution to the household are gonna go it alone.

              Best of luck with all that empty space filled with Shmoopie and her awful perfume, and by the way, I hope you don’t lose your house because you don’t have my insufficient contribution to supplement your mortgage payment anymore. Toodles!

              • I believe I would have had to gray rock him and the Schmooopie upside the head with an actual gray rock. A big one.

      • Nuclear,
        We didn’t have separate bedrooms, but my Peter Pan had a separate little room where he would spend his evenings painting war games figures, supposedly to sell for pocket money. Yes, he was an emotional 12 year old.

        When I asked for more face time, after dinner he would watch the news with me, then develop “stomach toubles” and excuse himself to the bathroom for 30 minutes. This would have been schmoopie text time of course. I kept urging him to see his doctor, but after d-day I realised he never was ill, he just needed time to service her. He also used to disappear for hours into the spare room during the night…supposedly to pass gas, but I suppose now that too was sexting time.

        After I kicked him out, in “his” room under the bed were a whole collection of random things belonging to me that he was clearly keeping aside to gift to schmoopie. I found lingerie things still in the bags which had been paid for with my credit card, but a size 18 (I was size 8). Lots of items that I thought had disappeared or “been broken and tossed out” according to him.

        • Marci, prior to him moving out of our bedroom, he would “go to sleep” with me until he knew I was out cold, and then get up to commence his nightly porn-o-rama activities. I once woke up to him clattering about in the kitchen in the wee hours, bewildered that he wanted to eat a meal in the middle of the night. I actually convinced myself he was “sleep-eating” because he seemed so dazed and unaware of my presence as I stood near him, watching him unhinge his jaw and shovel food down his gullet.

          Bear in mind that he had previously confessed that immediately after orgasm he wants nothing more than to eat. And so I observed this eating and yet did not truly see. It was only after he moved into the spare bedroom and I noticed his “lube” (so clueless I actually thought it was the same barely-used bottle of lotion always right there next to the sink in the hall bath) laying on the floor of his room one morning after we’d had porn-scene-reenactment-sex-by-rote the night before. Wut? Who masturbates right after they just had sex with their partner??

          The corner piece of the jigsaw puzzle fell into place so hard I almost vomited. I spent the next week biding my time and gathering evidence of what had been under my nose the whole time, just to convince myself that my realization was true. That was the worst week of my life… I felt like I was on the verge of a heart attack every waking moment, and since I couldn’t sleep, it seemed like one long drawn-out panic attack. The feeling of being stricken was exactly the same as that sickly feeling that comes when your body has just dumped a load of adrenalin into your system, except it was a week-long adrenalin dump that never ebbed away.

          The day I finally allowed myself to snoop in his computer and in his dirty laundry basket, I found the final evidence I needed to righteously rise up and kick his ass out. It was a long, shitty day, but the adrenalin dump stopped immediately when I took action: confronted him, changed the locks when he stormed out, and piled every scrap of his shit in the middle of the living room. Had movers there first thing the next morning, and his crap in a storage unit by the time he showed up with boxes that afternoon. I was even able to vacuum the carpet and dust the windowsills in his wankroom. That room never looked so clean in its life. Handing him the key to the storage unit was like hearing angels sing when the clouds part and the sun shines through.

          And then I let him work on me over the next 5 years until I took him back. womp womp.

    • HLMHLMN–the rage 5 months after D-day is **very** intense. And just to prepare you–it takes a long time to go away. The best you can hope for is that, in a few months, you’ll have some days without the rage, and then it will return as a cold, hard anger. (13 months out, with additional details that have spilled out after D-day, and my anger is still sporadically equal to the fire of a thousand suns). But it’s better than living with the cheater, and sure beats depression. Hugs to you!

      • Tempest…thank you, it does help to hear that what I’m feeling isn’t crazy ( as he’s trying to make me out to be). For the first two months I could barely even function, I was like a zombie. Now things keep coming to me of past things he’s done or said, that I can clearly see how much he was manipulating me but at the time I just didn’t see it, or didn’t want to see it is probably more the truth.

        Now it seems like every day, I find out something new which of course pisses me off all the more. Yesterday, his IRA statement came in the mail and it showed that he’s withdrawn $25,000. I scanned it and sent the copy to my attorney telling him that I’m pretty sure this goes against court orders. Unfortunately, the legal system doesn’t want to hit him as quickly or as bad as I do. So I wait for two more weeks until the next hearing to get something done. In the meanwhile, he’s planning yet another trip, which makes four that I know of during the divorce. He’s partied it up all summer while I’ve been paying the bills and trying to make ends meet. He also didn’t make my car payments ( company car) for three months, and last week I received a notice that my car would be repossessed in 4 days if payment in full was not made. He made it with 2 days to spare. The mortgage wasn’t paid last month either, but yet he’s got all kinds of money for trips and hookers. We are filing dissipation at the next the hearing and the deposition will also be ordered. I’m also waiting for his phone records, bank and credit card statements, along with the escort service that I’ve had subpoenaed to come in.

        A friend of mine said, “you’re going for the throat aren’t you”? I said, “no…I’m going for his balls…his little tiny mouse balls that he lost somewhere. Probably in some Super 8 with a slut he met on Craigslist named Cinnamon.”

        Hugs back at ya!!

  • Wow, here it is 1115pm cst and I’m just getting around to reading CL’s post. What a great laugh I just had! LOVE the humor within an eating shit sandwich topic! More please. 🙂

  • I only discovered details of my people-pleasing cheater ex long after it was all over. He was more along the lines of a Big Lie promise-maker though.

    Three years later the OW is now in a phase where she is reminiscing on her blog about the start of their relationship. While it is cringeworthy reading, it has in fact given me some ah-ha moments, where I see how he manipulates her into thinking he was Mr Generous. Problem was, he also led her to think he was loaded, and now of course that is coming back to haunt him.

    During the cheating, while I was still blissfully unaware, I recall things going missing from my house. Just small things like magazines (nice ones that were subscriptions) and small but nice kitchen stuff and knicknacks, candles, etc. Never anything epensive enough to be investigated, but just stuff that could be replaced. I always wondered how we used so much stuff…he must have been supplying her household goods as well.

    She now describes him as “so generous when we first met”. Well, I know for a fact that he had no means whatever, and that whatever he gifted her would have come from my house.

    The “big tragedy” of their relationship apparently is the fact that he promised her a house (on the premise that he would get half my house) and now because mean old Marci threw him out before he could snuff her….they are penniless and barely able to make rent. Ths stupid gits actually believed they could lay claim to someone else’s assets by virtue of cohabiting under the same roof. Not in the UK anyway!

    The rest of her blog, about their having to sneak around behind my back, is such a blantant description of cheating that she has had some searing comments from readers (I would never leave a comment since she tracks IP’s) calling her out for the cow that she is. That leads to her crying vicim “people are bullying poor me, I was in lurv”. I guess these folks have no shame.

    It has been strangely cthartic for me to see how disordered the two of them are. The perfect storm of two nutbars meeting by chance and hooking up. I guess I could put a comment on her blog like “just a retrospective TY for fortaking a huge loser out of my life”.

  • I’m sitting here reading these statements from the Cheaters to the faithful spouses. My jaw is hanging open. Do you guys have some sort of web cam in my house. You are all pretty much quoting the shitty Cheater here. Boy do they hate judgement!

  • I think once we chumps see clearly how our cheaters ran their people-pleasing over us as well…in the beginning…and that we were just their earliest victims…then it becomes less difficult to stay sentimental about the “good times” and “solid family life” we had with them. I have just obliterated my mindset from those good ole days and moved on to a lofe more akin to “friends” where I choose who gets my attention.

    In fact, what a lot of us thought were great relationships were actually a smoke and mirrors show on their part. Inside their churlish little heads, it was all about their own agenda. Any offspring are just mirrors to their narcissist selves, and we spouses were just the gene pool.

    Something must happen to cheaters early on in their lives to make them lack empathy. Pleasing others, for them, is just a tactic to achieve their selfish goals. This is why I believe the phrase “once a cheater…”

    • “In fact, what a lot of us thought were great relationships were actually a smoke and mirrors show on their part. Inside their churlish little heads, it was all about their own agenda. Any offspring are just mirrors to their narcissist selves, and we spouses were just the gene pool.”

      OMG Marci. You just typed what I was thinking for years with my stbxw. I wondered if I was crazy for thinking this… but reading these stories convinced me I’m not crazy :D. These people pleasers do walk among us..

  • SDK,
    In my case, gene pool is significant because our sons are spit images of their Dad. You cant tell the three of them apart except one is wrinkly and scowling all the time ;). I just hope those boys don’t turn wicked like the old man. This is why I’ve been vocal with them (they are adults) about the old man’s tendencies, and urged them to do some work around not going down the cheating road. One is listening and responsive; not sure yet about the other son. Father/son loyalties run deep.

  • When my educated, successful 55 year old husband walked out on me, his attractive educated wife of 30 years, also leaving behind his entire family, to move in with his unattractive, uneducated, thrice married, whore about town waitress, I thought he had suffered a mental breakdown or brain tumor. After reading these comments I realize he’s just a selfish, common, ordinary, run of the mill piece of shit. Clear to me now that he’s just a man whore living with a woman whore. Match made in hell.

  • i am in awe of the UBT skills CL. Outstanding translation!

    But gotta say I’m curious about Eustace. any chance this guy is from Indiana? If so, I’d love to talk…

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