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The Cheater Work Ethic

HiHo“Gotta work late” is the oldest cheater excuse in the book. The lamest. The most worn. And a line nearly every chump falls for.

Because, God, it sounds so virtuous. Who are you to call them on their shit when they are busting their ass for their family working over time? Aside from the fact that so many affairs are with co-workers, working late is the perfect front for cheaters — work phone, work email the spouse cannot access, work trips partners don’t often go on. The workplace is the ideal place for secret kibble production. Best of all, “working late” fits the cheater image of a Very Important Person with Very Important Things to Do.

You don’t understand that? Well, I think you fail to appreciate how hard they are working! Gee, don’t you have the cushy life. Perhaps you are not working hard enough. I think you missed a few things here at home. Could you pick the place up more? That’s NOT the way you make stewed tomatoes. Why are we out of coffee? Jesus, can’t you see the cheater is working over time for YOU? Can’t you be more understanding and helpful? You’re very selfish.

The “I gotta work late” excuse is such a mindfuck precisely because cheaters cloak themselves in the mantle of exactly what they are not — a team player. Someone who is going above and beyond for others at work and at home. Meanwhile, the truth of the matter is that they’re out whoring around, partying, drinking, “hiking the Appalachian trail,” doing what cheaters do — indulging themselves at the expense of others.

Do they really believe that they’re such hard workers? I would imagine what little work they do manage to do feels very unfair to them, unless it brings about mounds of kibbles (ego, monetary, and otherwise). But no one sufficiently appreciates them, of course. Funny thing about cheaters and work ethics — their entitlement often slops over into their working life. No surprise that narcissists tend to make poor employees — they just don’t think the rules apply to them. And work tends to have a lot of rules. It’s not uncommon that these are the people who can’t advance in their jobs, whose contracts don’t get renewed, who have a lot of bosses who don’t like them, and they have a lot of sad stories about that. Jealous coworkers, supervisors who have it in for them, batshit crazy women making allegations about harassment. They try so hard. There are just a lot of idiots in the workplace.

Then there are a whole host of cheaters who don’t work at all, or are under-employed, quite content to let the chump do all the heavy lifting of adult life. These people tend to overvalue their contribution to the marital home (“I shook something out of a bag and called it dinner — what’s your problem?”) and undervalue yours.

When D-Day hit, I found a certain amount of relief — oh, so THAT’s where you were! One of the great advantage of escaping a cheater is the peace that comes from not relying on these jerks. You’ll feel a burden has been lifted, because you realize quite quickly how much work you were doing to keep their chaotic, uninvested life whole. Direct that energy towards yourself. Let Mr/s Cheaterpants find a new personal assistant.

This column ran previously. Feel free to comment!

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  • I could never figure out how my cheater developed an affair with the french teacher? He’s the math teacher. He was always home when he said, I knew how long it took. He’s was with his family on weekends etc. There was no discrepancy in time. No warning. No red flags. After d-day I started to snoop and there it was, emails to her, sex sites and a whole host of other things. But he was good at hiding it. Or I was too trusting. Whatever.

    • Mine, too, Startof. No red flags; he’s a professor and had ample time outside his 6 hours of teaching every week to chat up and seduce students, and to meet his fuckbuddies from adult websites for some afternoon delight, then come home and have dinner with me & the kids.

      • Tempest, mine is a professor too and all his OWs come from a “work group” he created with his first OW colleague. They present papers on Fridays once a month, and then go out to have a beer or dance. He would never come back home before 2 am when he had those presentations. I would stay at home with kids even though I am a professor too and could have participated in those events. Or he would invite his colleagues and students home to “work” so he could be closer to his family. Or he would work late on his computer because he was needed to finish an article or book or conference paper (now I know he was Skyping sex with his OW and watching porn).

        I was always uncomfortable with having our home full of so many people I didn´t know, and having them know everything about our daily life.I figured out later that the women colleagues and students wanted him to replace me with them, so they could have my life because we shared work interest, travel, books, etc. I am so glad they have him now—they can share them with each other, for all I care- He got all the books, but also all the debt from the divorce and I kept our fabulous apartment that they all wanted to live in…There are so many professor-cheaters, because it is an ideal profession for a narc (no real bosses, lots of people to admire you permanently, conference travel). When I was married, however, it never occurred to me to flirt with my colleagues or have a conference- affair when I travelled. Now that I am divorced and feel single again, I notice how easy it is, because I sent out a completely different message (I am single-available). Now I understand that that was the message my cheater-ex ALWAYS sent out…No wonder…

        • Chumpita–I’m a professor, too, at the same university as my X. He conducted all his dalliances outside the house because our house is 15 miles outside the U. Only after the divorce did our friends start to reveal his overtly flirtatious behavior, the profession’s rumors about him at conferences, and details of the affair with grad-whore that I did not find out about for 8 years.

          You’re right–ideal profession for cheater narcs, where they can receive lots of ego supply from adoring students and colleagues (and if they play their cards right, lots of blow jobs and horizontal dance lessons).

          • Wow…we must be twins separated at birth! But I am so lucky that my cheater is not at my same university even though I tried to get him to change for many years because the salary and the prestige is much better. Now I know why he rejected changing universities: I could never run into him and his APs or get direct rumors. What is crazy though is how borderline these cheaters are with harassment claims, because, as you say, if they play their cards right, they can get away with a lot. I have several professor female friends with ex cheater spouses who are professors who went through the same ordeal, and in one case, the cheater got a student pregnant at the same time his wife was pregnant. It is so unfortunate that this environment is so attractive to narcs because I loved having a partner who was brilliant and had the similar interests, and I could travel and participate in projects with and was not intimidated by my academic achievements (or maybe he was?). It is not easy, specially in Latin America (where I am located) to find male partners who can deal with a woman with a PhD AND not be a cheater.

          • And I’ll bet every one of those little bitches thought they were the first student ever to bang their professor. He probably told them all how special they were and how mature for their age while they swooned and giggled. I picture them all smug around their friends –“I’ve got a seee-cret”. Shades of Tuesday’s post.

            • And it’s really infuriating that they strip you of your dignity like that. You don’t even know you’re in the game and they make a fool out the one person they vowed never to harm.

              • So true, Carmella. After D-day, when I lamented how he had made a fool of me in front of all our friends, his response was a contemptuous, “Get off the ‘public humiliation’ kick!”

                And I wonders why I hate him.

            • I’ll bet you are right. The major grad-whore affair partner was a real doozy. She gave an ultimatum to now-X while they were at a conference in Mexico together to call and ask me for a divorce by phone (we had a 10 and 5 year old at the time), then STOOD IN THE ROOM to listen to the conversation. Bitch not only invaded my marriage, my family, but also what should have been a private moment. I had no idea he was having an affair when he asked for the divorce. Wish I’d known so I could have saved myself 8 years of hell. The one saving grace is that his narcissistic grad-whore got unceremoniously dumped herself a week later when he decided to return to the marriage.

              Her response? 8 years later, she’s still painting herself a victim (true, I guess in terms of the power differential), and I recently found out she had tried to seduce ANOTHER married professor 5 months after getting dumped. Trying to marry her way to the top, perhaps?

              • That’s why reconciliation is impossible. It’s not that you could never ever get past what they did, it’s that you can’t get past who they are.

              • hood rat is ALWAYS in the room with Diablo when he calls me. i can hear her whispering in the back ground telling him what to say. it is frustrating as hell. but apparently that is the kind of woman he wants and that is NOT the kind of woman i was or am.

                now it just pisses me off that this home wrecker thinks she has any right to decide what happens with MY children. i no longer care what she does with diablo. that was his choice. but my boys are off limits when it comes to her. he let her make all the decisions for him, well, now he hasnt seen or talked to his boys in 6 months. his mistake. not mine. i see my kids everyday.

      • My narc X is a professor and so am I!!!!! Yes, it is the perfect job for a NPD. All your comments describe my situation. He had plenty of time to screw around all day and be home in time for dinner.

      • My cheater is also a professor who always worked ridiculously late hours while all his colleagues went home for dinner with their families. When I asked him why that was, his response was always, “My work is more important than theirs. It requires more time and effort.” Um-hmm.

        These days, he often leaves before 5pm – a “half day” compared to what he used to do. He was also demoted from director of a big university outreach program to “contributing professor.” I spent 25 years getting him to Associate Professor and now his career is over. He’ll never make full professor, because the woman he’s married to now (not OW) thinks she struck gold with him “as is” and will never challenge him to do more. So, he won’t. He’s lazy like that.

        Meanwhile, he’s going to have a hissy fit one day when he learns that several Ivy League schools have invited D18 to apply based on her SAT scores. He always likes to think of himself as the smartest one in the room, but he’s being eclipsed by his own kids. I haven’t bothered to tell him, because he’ll turn it around to be all about HIM, about how his DNA is so fabulous, of course the best of the best would want his progeny. Nope. I’m going to keep it to myself for now, because it’s not about him, it’s about her.

        Sad that I can’t share moments like that with her own father…

    • Oh Startof, this is so much like my story. My husband and his Gloryhole are both elementary school teachers. He could carried on his affair and still made it home well before 5pm. He had us all thinking that he was grading papers and prepping lesson plans….while I was working part-time, busing our kids, taking them to their extracurriculars, helping with homework, running errands for all of us, cleaning the house, dr appointments and on and on. How did he manage this without a huge time discrepancy? Right after the bell rang, these two dirtbags would sneak on up to the bathroom in the teacher’s lounge, lock the door, and proceed to fuck, lick, and suck each other’s brains out….sans protection too!. Then, he’d come home and kiss my kids with that nasty mouth. The fucker!!!

      • OMG!!! Disgusting. I can only imagine what went on that I didn’t know about. The sad thing is that these freaks work with children!

  • Work is where X met me. Work is where X met his OWs while married to me. I used to wonder how many other OWs there would be if X actually had a career instead of working in-between his unemployment stints. Then I remember that I don’t care anymore.

    • “Then I remember I don’t care anymore.” Aren’t we blessed to be there, Chutes? While I visit here daily for “ongoing maintenance/fortification,” I believe I may have reached meh. I could write a book about the ho-worker, his work travel, excessive overtime….but I just don’t care anymore. I even ignored his rage over a recent issue with our child (who is figuring old Dad out) to navigate the situation and arrive at what I felt was the best path forward for the kiddo. I remained calm (which he called smug). I could have NEVER done that a year ago.

      My hope and prayer for everyone here is to get here too. Believe me, I still have my days, but they are very few (and exclusively related to my son, not the ex). I beat myself up regularly for how long it was taking me to get here. But, by God’s grace, I eventually got here and you will too (by whatever source of grace you subscribe to).

      Chumps, We Got This!!!

      • Nobody finds any of this shit at work, unless they are looking for it. Some people where I work come in looking like full on tramps. And acting like it too. But I really see surprisingly little inappropriate activity between co workers. Maybe they save it for lunch/after hours.

        • I still have my moments, but they’re farther and farther apart now. And like you, movin_on, they are always because he continues to treat our kids like shit.

      • MovingOn, how far out are you from D-Day? I’m 14 months and I’ve come a long way, but for some reason I’m having a really bad week. Thoughts of OW and the lies stbx is telling people and the injustice of it all are plaguing me. Sometimes it’s so hard to keep the faith.

        • Carm, hang in there. I get those momentary lapses. I’m 28 months post d day and 2.5 months divorced. It DOES get easier everyday. Even if you feel like your healing is at a crawl. You are mighty! And so much better without the cheater!!!

  • My ex was “working” all the time too, but we were broke. My brother told me (after my 3rd DDay) that he knew the whole time the X was cheating because how could he work so much and have nothing to show for it?

    I was a chump. I worked hard, advanced in my career, tried to make sure bills were paid and we had a savings account, all while he made my job sound insignificant, verbally abused me and the kids and destroyed our self-esteem, constantly told us how he “worked his ass off for us” while the house, cars and life fell apart because he needed his f*** buddies more. The only good thing about him constantly “working” was, with him being gone all the time, the boys and I had joy and peace.

    • lol, yep, similar story here. Sociopath ex worked 12-14 days some weeks but accused me of not being able to manage our finances because I dared to question him about why his absence from home was not reflected in the bank account…. occasionally I got some irrational explanation, most of the time I got “YOU’LL NEVER BE HAPPY NO MATTER HOW MUCH I MAKE”, or “YOU’RE TOO MATERIALISTIC”, or “IF YOU DIDN’T HAVE SUCH EXPENSIVE TASTE”… toward the very end I got something along the lines of that maybe I should have worked more, even if I already did have 2 part time jobs, totaling 40 hours per week.

      • Me too. He paid the rediculously low mortgage and cable and where the rest of his money went is beyond me. We never had new furniture, repairs were never done on the house, his car was paid off. Oh, he paid his car insurance too. Big whoop. He made good money. Then I heard, “You’re all about the money!” While I was wearing thrift shop and Walmart clothes he had $100.00 + pairs of sneakers, expensive gym clothes, Nike stuff, and spent hundreds a season on fantasy sports leagues. If he took me out to Applebee’s or a pizza he was a big spender.

    • Diablo was always working, or of course he was at a “friends” drinking because he needed to relax because he worked so hard. i used to have him deposit his pay check into our joint checking and i paid all the bills, vacations, clothes everything until he started telling everyone i took him check and never gave him any money. and he started his own checking account. i used to have him pay the utilities until they started getting shut off. i used to have him buy the groceries until he started complaining. he got me down to giving me 100 to 200 dollar a week in the end. i was too tired and messed up in the head to notice that i was paying for everything. he had a menial job getting paid 6.00 an hour so it wasnt like he was getting paid a hole lot anyway. he would tell me that he was only getting 200 a week. but then i found out he was getting 500 to 600 A WEEK with all the extra time. even when i questioned how could he make 200 a week when he worked 10 overtime hours and that was time and a half so should have gotten 90. just for overtime, he would say he didnt know, or they took it out for insurance or they didnt pay him. that worked for over a year (of course in my defense i was also working thru my grief of losing my oldest daughter so my head really wasnt on right). he would spend so much money and have nothing to show for it. he wasnt given me anything to help the household, even when i wrote all the bills down, and printed out both mine and his paychecks. he still didnt give me more money, he had bills to pay too. whatever

      a year after the divorce, the crap weasel actually tried to tell me that he was working 6 JOBS for this (gesturing to the house and things in the yard)…. i was like 6 jobs? at the same time? really? of course the look on his face when he realized he was lying to the one person who knew better was priceless. so he came up with a weak, yes, all the side jobs i was doing at the time makes it 6 jobs. i just said well i didnt see a damn dime if you were working 6 jobs, it all went to yourself. which all he could do is shrug.

      but i know that is the story he is telling everyone. how he worked 6 jobs to pay the bills and i STILL wasnt happy with him. how i treated him so bad even after he was working 6 jobs.

      gag me. now he is not paying child support, and yep he has new clothes, new shoes, buys her clothes and shoes and phone bill and rent, takes her out to eat and out to visit family in other towns, staying in hotels, and has a new truck with a stereo system, new rims and tires. and has bought her a car too. meanwhile his children have holes in their shoes, holes in their pants (i sew them right away but it is hard to keep up with), we cant even afford to go to the movies or eat out. much less go on camping and over night hotel vacations the way we used to. we cant go out of town and my truck is on its last legs.

      fucker.

      • Similar situation to you. Love and hugs to you.
        The kids know you’ve got their backs.

        He is living a sad empty life full of stuff. The hole in his soul will never be satisfied with the stuff or the life he is living. Eventually the bailiffs will come knocking as will old age. See what that ‘good times’ life gets him then.

  • My ex’s regular job was computer tech and his second “job” was playing in a band. That way he had an excuse to be unreachable and unlocateable morning, noon, and night most days, PLUS he had a pool of groupies from which to fish.

    Even now, years later, one of the hardest things to cope with is how stupid I feel for ever believing one thing that exited his liar face.

    • Think we were married to the same person, Ami. The band was cover for his weekend fuck fests with the whore. Guess he couldn’t get enough of the slunt during the week. It also have him an excuse to avoid Playing Daddy on the weekend, . During the week, his excuse was work. On the weekend, he had to “rest” all weekend. You know, pregig, gig, and postgig. 48 hours, lol. Plus all that time in front of the mirror, primping, giddy with excitement , over seeing his lady love. And of course, if there is no gig, there’s always Practice, don’t you know?

        • On tour- some mix up with accommodation so had to share a bed with tour organiser.Didn’t have sex- until I got notification letter from a doctor. Then maybe had sex a few times. Deal was what happens on tour stays on tour. Deal broken when I got sick.

    • “Even now, years later, one of the hardest things to cope with is how stupid I feel for ever believing one thing that exited his liar face.”

      Love it, Ami–that is exactly where I am at! Laughing, crying, and wanting to slap my former self all at once.

      • It helps to know others struggle with that. Except for that it’s all meh, easily, after many years, but that’s the thing I can’t shake.

  • “The workplace is the ideal place for secret kibble production”

    And yet, with all of my work travels, late nights, events, etc., I never once managed to fall in love with someone else, kiss someone else, or get naked with someone else! What’s wrong with me? Oh, that’s right, I’ve got character and integrity. 😉

    God, I’m sick of thinking about how disordered these people are. To the point that, in IC, I cut my therapist off when she asked me how I though my stbxw felt or what she thought about certain things; I don’t know, because she’s a stranger to me now; I don’t care, because I quit that thankless job when I filed divorce papers; it’s time for me to focus on what I’m thinking and feeling. Therapist basically said “good point, I can understand that approach, it makes sense not to try to decipher the disordered too much.”

    • You have arrived. 🙂
      Your not a chump at all!
      You “get it”.
      Good for you; I’m with you… Tired of trying to decipher the disordered

      • I always say my ex fired me from the job of trying to figure out or care what he thinks.

        As far as working – he was an extremely hard worker, or at least he seemed to be. He was gone all the time. He won tons of awards and accolades, but he also traveled with attractive and intelligent female coworkers all the time. In looking back, I realize that he worked even more after he fell in love with married OW coworker. He took on consultant jobs (in which OW went along with him) to earn extra money for the kids’ college expenses. The appearance of being a hard worker for our family gave him the perfect excuse to spend more time with her. What a sweet deal. When he left I told him that all his traveling and absence from our home was a major issue in our relationship. He immediately answered “No, it wasn’t.” End of discussion. That’s pretty typical of how our relationship discussions went. *Sigh.*

    • You are so right. When I travelled for work I somehow managed to never cheat, when he travelled he just made the most important connection with someone who was very very special. Blergh.

      • During false MC, ex told me he was always hit on when he traveled/went to conferences, women would give him their numbers, etc. He asked if I ever was. Nope, dude, never. I think you put off a vibe in those situations.

        • It’s probably BS zyx321, my STBXH did all the hitting on all the woman like he did with me when we met years ago. He was the aggressor.

        • i actually was hit on, asked for my phone number etc several times while i was married. and yet i never cheated. yes, there was one time i let the texting conversations get out of hand but i eventually realized what i was doing and i quit. blocked and never talked to again. AND i felt really really badly for it. which only gave diablo more power over me. ugh.

          but somehow, i resisted ending up naked with some other man between my legs. go figure. even when felt my lowest and was very unhappy. it was easy for me to tell those men that i was not interested. because i honestly was not interested. just once i stumbled.

          diablo was weak, he never hit on anyone, including me. i was the aggressor. he never put a move on me even when we were married. his idea of initiating sex was to poke my ass with his woody. lucky me. i used to think that he would never cheat on me since he was so scared to put a move on anyone. but a friend told me “you dont think there are women out there like you, who will put the move on him first?” and yep, it all fell into place. so the women did come on to him, and he did nothing to shoot them down. this hood rat he is with is very aggressive, in all manner of life. she is hostile to anyone and argues with everyone. she even called the movie rental place to tell them off saying she was me. stupid bitch.

          but then he lets her. so *Shrugs*

          • Mrsvain13, I can’t count how many times I was hit on in the 23 years of marriage too. Not that I did’t fantasize about some of the really cute and sexy ones, I DID, but never in my wildest dreams did I think of taking it further then in my thoughts. We are only human and having fantasies is only human. I just always thought that my STBX thought that way too. We often talked about this since he is very attractive too and I knew women found him appealing, I just believed in our love and commitment and assumed that he did too. I am working on forgiving myself for my naiveté but I am finding that very hard to do.

    • Sadly, she was always a stranger. That’s one of the most disorienting parts. Good for you for accepting that and moving on!

    • I’m glad you checked your therapist. The only way you can move past this shit is to concentrate on yourself and what you want. It doesn’t matter what makes the X tick. What matters is you.

    • Thanks, all. In IC, my therapist and I kept checking one another on not untangling the skein, several times each, just in the latest session alone. It’s helped immensely. Just. Do. NOT. GO. THERE! 🙂

      • I agree seepage! It’s time to give up on trying to understand how other people think. What’s more important is what we’re willing to put up with in a relationship.

    • Sephage…. “I quit that thankless job when I filed divorce papers” love that. Oh so true.
      In quitting that job I realized how much of it I did on my own. I also saw once I was gone he didn’t have an effing clue how to relate to his own daughters. He was too busy getting his rocks off. He literally left coffee in the coffee pot for 3 weeks….it molded. My girls took photos. He ripped out all my flowers because he didn’t know what was what. He said he liked the look of mulch.
      Well….the house is a dump. The slunt can’t decorate or cook. She definitely is not doing my former job.with the skill set I employed…but she has other skills…..

      • Ah, you’re so far ahead of that OW slunt that you can’t even see her! 🙂

        I feel compelled to add that my cheating STBXW always had work drama, none of it EVEAHHHH being her fault, of course. She cheated with one of her workplace bosses, a man-boy grandfather who is around the same age as STBXW’s cheating father.

        It’s a good match: man-boy lives off of his mother’s (copious amounts of) money, has no male friends, and I can find not one person in our neighborhood who doesn’t think he’s an entitled doucheblossom. They are perfect for one another, IMHO.

        Regarding work, not to sound like a narc, but in both of my careers (corporate, and then media):

        – I advanced rapidly
        – I won awards
        – Parts of my work were recognized on global levels by industry leaders
        – Saved money for the family’s future, and invested it like a champ, so that essentially I am retired early.

        My cheating STBXW:

        – Got laid off one corporate job, then fired from another job, and started a small business that immediately failed.
        – Rang up secret debts and penalties to the tune of $100K.

        Grandpop can have her. Funny how she went after the local man-ho with access to lots of cash when I got fed up of her secret destructive choices and told her to take responsibility for her debts once I found them out (incidentally, from what I have been able to unearth, her spending ways continued unabated after she begged and pleaded for me not to divorce her after uncovering the secret debt, and that she wouldn’t EVAHHHH do it again, blah-blah-lie-blah).

    • How are you supposed to decipher someone who lies all the time? My ex would lie about everything: the cost of the cable package he wanted, working late, out of town “business”, etc. Big lies. Small nefarious ones. Didn’t matter.

      We’re adults & that means we can discuss our feelings, even the uncomfortable ones, not expect each other to decode & decipher. You don’t have to be one of the Hardy boys to have a successful relationship.

      I’m glad you shut that down when your therapist asked that question.

  • Yeah work, for those that have limited social skills work is their social life. Should have been a big red flag when she stopped bitching about her boss and instead ripped on every single woman that worked there also. Or never wanted to get together with any of our mutual friends, but instead just go out with those same women from work that she had been bitching about. Fuck that shit, always saying how hard you are working and how much you sacrifice, come on. The releif is real, things may be a bit harder now financially but I am glad to give up some of the extras in life to have some damn truth around me.

      • “I am glad to give up some of the extras in life to have some damn truth around me.”

        Biggest relief ever to have that gone from my life!

    • “work, for those that have limited social skills work is their social life” This is SO true! Asshat just lurved all the drug reps, assistants, scheduling ladies, nurses bc they roperly appreciated how awesome he is, unlike his business partners or administration who are just always nitpicking about how much outstanding paperwork he had. Couldn’t they see he is just the best? Best bedside manner? All the patients and staff say they love him the best. Barf.

      And I will not miss being his personal assistant. In one of our last discussions about the latest affair, he spit out that I was so lazy bc I never planned our social life. That was true for a few years when our son was very young but after some discussion, I realized I needed to step it up so I had lots of dates planned. His work schedule is so hectic and he didn’t think to inform me of his out-of-hours meetings in advance so I would choose several days and options. I told him I needed a week or two lead time to secure a sitter. He still nixed every date. SO HE COULD GO OUT WITH HIS WHORE! :angry:

      • oh damn i forgot about that one. how diablo would whine that i never wanted to go ANYWHERE. so i would plan an outing, for the family (because that is how i think a good time is, with my husband and the children we created). i would plan going to the movies, going to the park, going out of town, whatever and he would find some way out of it. so we went without him. and yet he keep crying about my not wanting to do anything. it wasnt that at all, i just didnt want to do the things HE WANTED to do which was go to his druggie cousins house and drink beer all night. in the end that is where he found his hood rat. he is cousin by the dad side, she is cousin by the mom side. they both were at the cousins house drinking beer all night and talking about their “bad” marriages. they have so much in common donchaknow. (her husband is at home, working and taking care of her 4 kids in another town, while she was here, staying up all night, sleeping all day, mooching food, showers, rides, a place to sleep, no apartment of her own, no job, no car. but she was FUN!!!!!) an easy hole, ready, willing, and available with the added benefit that she can match him beer for beer. THAT is tru luv. gag

        • oh and he was spending so much time there with her that he was NEVER home. staying out all night even when i was begging him to come home. begging him to tell what was wrong, how can i fix it, what was i doing wrong etc…..

          excuse me while i vomit

    • “Yeah work, for those that have limited social skills work is their social life”

      True dat.

      Snake did not have a single friend from outside the workplace. Not a single one. No old high school friends, zip.

      And when he left one job he’d worked at for decades, he barely kept in touch with any of those people afterward.

      Like once he didn’t have to suck up to everyone to convince them he was such a great guy, he had no use for them anymore…

      That’s a good part of why his continued contact with a former co-worker was so out of the ordinary that I knew it wasn’t “just friends”. Aside from the discussion itself, that is. The content was incriminating, but his past history sealed it.

  • “Hey. I’m taking the client out for dinner. I’ll be home late.”

    Jeez. Got this a lot and since I had also worked for the same company, who was I to doubt this statement. Little did I know that the MOWhad flown in from Orange Cty, was interned at the Hyatt on Lake Cook Rd and he was heading out for the beginning of a weekend fuckfest.

    Or…”look! At the XYZ conference, me and the guys saw PDQ band!” These were the times that asshat had internal conferences, got drunk with the “guys” and managed to find his body parts filling those of a female co-worker. The one I knew somewhat well and somehow could never look me in the eye when we talked in person.

    Or how about, “What I really want for Christmas is a binder for all my Broadway playbills. Can you get that for me?” Oh, yes…ALL of the Broadway musicals where he spent a weekend celebrating the ANNIVERSARY OF MEETING THE MOW IN A BAR. Complete with photos that he would show me at home wherein the MOW was in the background. Those fucking weeks in January where he would miss the birthdays the younger two children so it would not conflict with the anniversary celebrations with the childless MOW.

    BUT WAIT! None of this would be complete without the requisite, “ANC, you are not doing enough to meet my needs to feel special. You must hit these objectives that I have set in this relationship or else something bad will happen. ANC, you spend too much time addressing the needs of the kids and not enough focus on me.” Blah blah blah. That’s verbatim, pretty much. Enormous mindfuckery. The threats. The hoop jumping.

    Even the asshat has admitted that his job really does not require a lot of real work. He has been passed over for promotions which has upset him over the past 5-8yrs. Can not anyone simply see how great he is?!!!

    New chumps: their cheating HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. It’s not you. It’s not you. Don’t let them blameshift their crapola on you.

    • Anc, I agree. I’m one month post final divorced (YAY) but still am astounded by realizations surrounding work. like a good wife I believed the ‘work late ‘ line. On Tuesdays work colleagues played squash until 7pm….. Sure, it ‘ran late’ until 9pm.(god I hate to think) I can’t help feeling dumb about this. Not to understand it, but the fact that I ‘spackled’ to be the understanding wife. It makes me sick. I can’t help but think its part my own fault for spakling… Xh chose to go to his work xmas party over our 5th wedding anniversary dinner for God’s sake. How dumb am i. Still not ‘meh’ Tuesday… Hurry up.

      • Chump-ness, you cannot find fault with yourself for trusting your spouse; that is what normal, well-adjusted people do when they are married.

          • Chumpness, I know how you feel so much damage done by asswipe he almost broke me. But not quite. I’m stuck here for 6 months til asshole buys the house. I’m playing the great actress until then. Divorce final next week but his business is still here. He’s been given 6 months to buy the house or move his business so I can sell it. After that bye bye motherfucker! Only way I will ever heal is to get away from him. He doesn’t want that, wants us to stay close friends. He and whore broke up. She wants him back he says no. But he wanted to be close friends even when he was living with her. He’s nuts. I bide my time till I can disappear. He is still in love with me but wants to be free. How many of you have gotten this best friends right shit. Its maddening! He says it all the time. What the hell is wrong with him? Who the hell wants friends like that?! He’s the only guy I ever loved or trusted completely. Been together 30 years. I’m pretty badly damaged and shaken up. Its gonna take a good long while. A retired lady therapist told me when I asked her when will it stop hurting and when will the crying stop? She told me you will cry until you can’t anymore and then the hurt will be less. Anyone who tells you just get over it and find another guy. Tell them to go fuck themselves!! She is 86. Wise woman. Her first and only husband broke her heart, left her after 20 years. After she got to meh, she became a therapist to help chumps like us.

            • Do not and NEVER let these people break you. We are warriors. Otherwise we would be relating to each other via RIC sites swirling around the limbo drain for eternity.

              • I feel broken too 🙁 Each day is a struggle and although I am on depression medication, what I really would like to have is some kind of KARMA to punish the fucker fro his deeds. I know it would lift my depression a little, I just know it.

              • They can’t break us we are warriors. Yes to this. When our world shifts and we get them out of out lives we MEND. To be discarded like trash shows us in the end just why we NEED to detox and have no contact. These are sick entitled fuckers. Time, therapy, and building our own identity happens as a result. Trust this.

              • When I left, it was the first time in a long time I didn’t feel “broken”.

                I was damaged by the marriage, but I wasn’t defective right out of the box.

                I left the marriage because he voided the warranty.

                With the psychological abuse ending, I can finally fix what can be fixed, and at least be functional again. That wasn’t going to happen when he was finding new and different ways to destroy every last component of what made me ME.

                There will be love and trust again in my life, even if it is just loving my dogs and trusting myself.

            • I have the crazy like you Kar. Asswipe wants to be friends – oh wait no. He wants to “Date” after the divorce. What? Date as in – fuck buddies? live together? be committed? What the FUCK? I also get the asshole bash texting me. After a few hours of of not responding to his previous 18 texts – he will ask me what I am doing that night! He thinks he can just bitch text me and then say “Hey, lets have sex.” Yep – that is my crazy…..

              • What the hell is with the “best friend” thing? I got the same bullshit. With friends like him I sure don’t need enemies!

              • Mine said the same…divorce and date others and then see about getting back together…maybe.

                Not a chance, asshat.

      • Chump-ness, no one can fool you more than someone you love, because normal people trust those they love. Narcissistic people abuse that trust. It’s not you, it’s him.

  • I think I fell for this one, too. That said, it makes sense looking back about my own dis-ease regarding how late my xW (now) was spending out “working” or “relaxing” with the “girls” at the local bars. So chumpy be me then!

    • We had “tennis matches” on the weekends. We were so disconnected that I looked at that as free time away from the uncaring SOB.

      Logistically it never seemed possible that an affair was going on as he came home at same time each night and was there on weekends, except for the fictitious tennis matches. But take a look at the phone records! Even my lawyer said there’s not enough time in the day to do this much talking, texting, and picture sending of who knows what. Oh and I found in the “love letters” reference to sneaking up to the 7th floor. And a write up for the schmoopie for missing a client call. And the lawyer new firm they are both working now doesn’t think he has to be “babysat.” What do you think CN, should I send head lawyer a “wake up alert?”

      Keep in mind that I am now 2 mo. post final D. Not meh but…..so delicious thinking about it…..

  • My Idiot had the perfect cover… He was/is an undercover Narc. Multiple IDs to match the multiple personalities. Hanging with prositutes and drug dealers. Gone for days at a time. Months of waiting out a ‘hit ‘ on his life when we couldnt beseen in public together( for our daughters safety of course! ) You have to be a strong spouse to live like that. And I was.
    When he moved inside the operations and wasnt doing field work anymore… But still living like he was… That was the flag for me. And then I asked the question and all hell broke loose.
    I try, I do, to not dwell or revisit those years of him being undercover. It fucks with my head. Years sitting wondering if he was alive… When he was probably getting his balls licked by some whore. Sitting in restaurants where he insists on sitting facing the door of the restaurant because he needed to case the joint. RIGHT! Mother fucker.
    The more I think of this shit… The more sick I feel. Just when I think I am approaching Meh… BAM!! Road block. Where is the fucking detour?

    • Clip,

      What a life. Your humor is still intact and your comments have been inspiring. I don’t know why you were delivered this mother fucker as a spouse, but I just have to believe it was for some bigger reason unbeknownst to us.

      Forge on.

      • Clip, my STBX did the same thing! He is a major in law enforcement and would always want to sit facing the door so he could check everyone that walked in! Now I know what he was checking for!

        • Its a whole different kinda hurt and fuckedupedness… It really is. When the good guy is the enemy… Except ya dont know it until its too late.
          I cringe at the things I believed and endured for the law.

    • Clip, I’m so sorry you had to deal with such an asshole. There’s a special place in hell reserved for your ex. (Satan as the unholy host: “How many in your party? Right this way, a table right in the middle of our eternal flesh-melting acid vat.”)

      My father (deceased) was a Police Major and Homicide Detective. I have mentioned this before, but he made EVERYONE he hired sign an infidelity clause that stated in no uncertain terms if infidelity was suspected and confirmed, that person was dismissed. No pleading, no deals, they were done. He would launch a full investigation regarding any allegations of an affair. Dad was a polygraph administrator, forensics expert and master interrogator. His mindset? If your own spouse or romantic partner can’t trust you, then what makes you think that we can? If they resisted putting their signature on that particular document? Sorry, but they had no place on his staff. He didn’t care if it wasn’t politically correct. It was all about character to him.

      I have special place in my heart for honorable people who work in Law Enforcement. I despise ones who, in any way, take advantage of their vocation.

      I absolutely love your posts, and I’m sending hugs your way.

      • OMG!! and infidelity clause!! that is awesome. your dad rocks!!! i never thought i had to explain to my husband that infidelity was a no go for me. i mean it was in the vows we took at the church we got married in. i never considered having to teach him that infidelity was bad. even after the first time. i never said, you know if this happens again we are divorcing. i just figured it was a given. dumb ass me, i should have told him. poor little sausage just didnt know. not everyone had a great childhood like i did. i mean i had to explain EVERYTHING else to him. you cant drink a vehicle without insurance, you have to pay your bills BEFORE the due date, you have to pay your bills first THEN spend money on stupid shit. you cant yell at the baby then get mad that he is crying. you are not helping when you only wash half the dishes or clean half the living room. ugh. so it must have been MY fault that he cheated, i never told him not to stick his dick in someone else. (sarcastism there if you missed it)

        but i think i will put in an infidelity clause on all future dates. please sign the dotted line. hahaha
        you have to admit it is a good idea

    • I am starting to wonder whether Meh is a destination, or merely a long, never-ending journey? Even among long-timers here, it doesn’t seem a stable state (and rightfully so). Perhaps we’re thinking of it wrongly? Perhaps meh is a road trip, with lots of unforeseen elements–car breaks down, credit card won’t work, you leave your purse in a roadside restaurant and it’s gone when you turn around to get it.

      And part of me doesn’t fully want meh–dammit, a great wrong was perpetrated on all of us, that permeated our very beings and our identities. Why *shouldn’t* we stay mad or enraged? why shouldn’t the injustice of it gall us for decades? I can still get myself into a tither about the Tuskegee experiments that started in the 30s. Isn’t it logical to be miffed about a personal injustice until my death bed? (and don’t even get me started on forgiveness) As long as I, we, don’t stop our lives to relish our resentments, isn’t it justifiable, and even intelligent, to remember what was done to our marriages and families with malice aforethought?

      Just my musings…. (go ahead, call me bitter. Bitter is the smart response, IMHO).

      • Tempest…I completely agree with you and your analogies. It’s been YEARS since Cheaterpants screwed me over and yeah, I’m at Meh most days but I honestly don’t think you EVER get over that kind of betrayal. I honestly think it will haunt me forever. On Dday I felt something break inside of me and I know it will never completely heal. It was the day I learned that the person I trusted the most was the biggest liar, cheat and thief on earth and I was completely fooled and made a fool of. How do you get over things like that? I don’t have an answer to that.

        • Syringa…. I am broken in places that I cant reach and i dont think there is any adhesive or replacement part. I trusted a man of the law, a decorated Marine. A man that i would have bet my childs life on…
          Its all bullshit.

          • TheClip..It is ALL bullshit when we’re dealing with these types of sociopaths who don’t feel a thing. I love your posts and read every word. You’re a brilliant mighty woman and I know someday you can reach a sort of Meh. My greatest wish is that everyone here can heal enough to find peace someday. Hugs darlin’

            • For me, meh comes and goes. I think that is the best we can hope. Even with ex husbands of decades gone by, once in a while I get a hair up my ass about how he treated me or the children who are now in their later twenties and thirties. But, it goes away just as fast as it comes.

              I feel I am really at meh this time sooner then I ever was with the others. First, because of this site and second, because I knew what to expect.

              Syringa, your wish that everyone here “heal enough to find peace someday” is the best that can happen. Knowing the peace that comes from within gets you back to meh real quick when you get off track.

              I used to think everyone can be fixed. I know better, now. More importantly, I know the only one who can fix you is YOU. As for me, it was grace from God above.

              • i used to feel bad for divorced woman. i mean even if they found someone else and remarried. it seemed to me that there was something missing in their eyes. you can look at pictures of them with their first husband and see a sparkle there that seems to be gone forever. i have never met a divorced woman who has that sparkle. i believe it is because something is broken in them forever when the person you trusted, loved, honored, believed in, gave so much to and had dreams with fucks you over, something dies inside you. on the other hand, i see woman who have been married all their lives, never divorced and even in bad times, they have a sparkle when they look at their husbands, even if he is an asshole, the sparkle is there.
                (maybe sparkle is not the right word, maybe it is life showing)

                now i am one of those. i lost something when my daughter died and before i could get my head on right, i lost the man i love more then anything. i know people argue that they would rather be divorced then to have their spouse die (in cases where they were close to divorce anyways, not in cases where they had a good marriage) but i have been threw both with people i loved with all my heart. and i say, death is way easier.

                yes, it is sad and hurtful that you will never see that loved one again. you can never hear their voice or see them in person. but you KNOW that is the reason you cant see them, you can believe they are in a better place and are not in pain. i WISH my husband died instead of betrayed me. yes, i can still see him (kissing on another woman and doing all these things for her that he should be doing for me), i can hear his voice and talk to him (and hear his anger and hate and all the cruel things he is saying just to hurt me over and over and over), yes, maybe someday in the extreme future we can get along (which i doubt since he seems to enjoy the pain he causes me, and i doubt i can ever GET OVER the shitty things he did to me and my boys). but at least if he had died, then i wouldnt have to see him act this way, do these things. the most painful thing was to accept that when it came down to it my husband choice a hood rat over me and his sons. every single day, he makes that decision over and over. i would much rather grief his life is over then to witness the destruction and downfall of the man i loved and thought was a good husband, good dad and good man. my boys would have healed knowing that daddy died and can not be with them, then knowing that daddy bailed on them and abandoned them.

      • I agree. Meh seems to be a stage thing, sometimes it lasts a full month, but I feel “unmeh” very frequently, it can be triggered by anything: like hearing my daughter´s comment on how they miss our family, or when I hear his voice, or find something that reminds me of the happy moments. Maybe after daughters are grown up and many years have past, meh will be more permanent, but for now, I am constantly reminded that the person I most loved and trusted betrayed me with no regrets.

        • What is weird is it’s been over 4 years since my D-day, but last night I had a dream in which my ex hugged me. It felt good. I sometimes feel I’ll be connected to him forever. It’s really hard when you were with someone from the age of 16 – 53 to just forget about them. In many ways I feel there was no closure.

        • well said. there will ALWAYS be triggers. when your child asks where daddy is. why doesnt daddy love them. why is he helping hood rats kids? or can we ask daddy to go with us like that one time. or remember when daddy did this for us. a song, a picture, a memory.

          i was triggered a few days ago by a picture i found on an old hard drive. a picture of my youngest when he was 3 years old on a family outing. he was dirty for playing in the sand, sun burnt, wearing his daddys hat and tired. he was sitting on his dads lap, with his head on his dads shoulder with his eyes closed and his little arms around his daddy neck. diablo had his arms around the boy and was looking at the camera with this face, this happy joyful face and his hair all a mess by the wind.

          it crushed me.i cried at work. how the fuck did that go wrong. he was happy. he was a good day (at least in the beginning) where the hell did it go wrong? to the point that the same man doesnt even talk to me, much less look at me. and now hates me so much he doesnt even want to be around his flesh and blood children. and how the hell was i to know he would become the hateful cruel man he is now?

          i dont think you EVER get over. i think you just learn how to live with the pain. just like the pain of losing my daughter only this pain happens over and over and stays fresh.

          fucking assholes!!!

      • Tempest… Jesus, Amen and HALLELUJAH!!!
        I swear i am trying to get on that fucking road… But maybe just maybe I need to stay angry… Maybe something in the universe is saying ‘ you need to stay angry right now’
        He is fucking crazy and dangerous .. So maybe , just maybe the universe is saying ‘ Clip be a bad ass mother fucker and stay righteously angry cause u need to’
        Its more than bitter for me… Its more than angry. Is there a word in the english language that would some up it up… I feel fucking jilted … fucked over… robbed … Defrauded. I am a victim of fraud.

        • TheClip–you do need to stay one bad-assed mother fucker, cuz your X is a psychopath, pure and simple. You haven’t just been robbed or defrauded, you’ve had your life-earnings stripped from you on a stagecoach ride, had the shit kicked out of you, and been left for the horses to run over. But you got up, screamed a few expletives, and now have to make the journey to daughter-turns-18, looking over your shoulder for the robbers to show up again. Good thing you’re sassy, and passersby will give you what you need to keep hiking.

      • Tempest
        I will never be the same, I’ve forever changed.

        My mother died in my arms minutes after my narcissistic abusive father uttered the words, “When will they come for the body”. I took her in my arms and told her it was time to go and she would forever be safe without abuse. I told her she was a great mother and we all loved her. Within a few months X made his announcement.
        I chose no contact with X and my father. The impact of what these two completely different sociopaths have done to me in my lifetime made me vow to never let ANYONE have power or control over my life or emotions. They are pure evil.

        My daughters are 36 and 33 and while they GET it, they too learned to live and function in chaos. We are here to shape them and model our strength in living a better life. Do I resent the fucker, hell yeah. Will I ever have contact or pretend he loves anyone but himself? No. Will I resist the urge to spray paint his gravestone, no.
        Keeping them first and foremost in our thoughts for years gives continues to feed their importance. They are not important, just fucktards living a sleazy superficial illusion.

        I prayed every day of my life that my father would die or my mother would stop sacrificing herself and live better. She never did. And all she was to him was a body.

        We get to do whatever we want! We wasted enough. Meh may be a journey with ups and downs. We can choose the direction.

        • Two weeks after my dad died, my first XW woke me yo brag about the body of the man she had been with that night. She also announced she was going to Chicago with a guy from her AA group and sharing a hotel room so they could visit museums. Left me alone to czre fof our 2 boys while I WAS STILL GRIE
          VING!

          • Arnold this is why I have moved on with my life. They are heartless assholes. I wouldn’t treat anyone the way I was treated.

      • TheClip, Please add me to your list of admirers. You ability to maintain your considerable wit through this sh*tstorm is amazing to me. You are truly mighty.

        I hope my comments about “meh” (above) didn’t come off differently from how it sounded in my head. I am sorry if I expressed myself poorly. I’ve been coming here for a couple years (read my Match.com story – hilarity) and I do think that it’s possible to reach a form of “meh.” It’s probably different for all, but what I’m calling “meh” is not allowing myself to be provoked by the crazy. Or jealous because, from all outward appearances, he “won.”

        Don’t get me wrong. I am forever changed. I have no desire to date four years post D-Day because I can’t imagine trusting a man again. And when my son says “I wish things were how they used to be,” I completely fall apart. I will never be the same.

        But I do feel like not giving a crap about how he’s doing or ruminating over what he did is my form of meh, probably because I am a world-class ruminator (and have my old companions depression and anxiety to prove it). Again, I hope I didn’t sound like a jackass above. I would never want to offend anyone here.

        • Movin_on
          I love everyones comments and stories… sometimes I wish there was a like button because I would absorb a lot of space on this site if I commented on everything. I am glad for your cheering leading and thanks for the kind words!

      • “Meh” is the state where you may find the pain has abated to the point where you just don’t give a fuck anymore – but you always watching like a hawk for shitty behaviour on the part of others. Doesn’t need to be a partner – its anyone.
        To be fair – I find I’m a richer person for that – where the rose coloured glasses have been shattered and healthy cynicism has taken its place. Where you realise that it isn’t all sunshine and roses with arseholes.

      • I can gauge my progress to meh in moments when I’m not profoundly sad about the years wasted on a loon, or full of self loathing because I ignored the signs he was a lazy, nut-job loser all along the journey to D-Day.

        Those moments are fewer and farther between these days, and the very sight of him no longer elicits fear on a primal level. Now it’s just disgust for a miserable excuse of a man who not only threw me away but also had to financially and emotionally rip me and our kids to shreds in the process. He keeps his kids out of sight and out of mind so he could go be taken care of by a skanky, creepy, cross-eyed, psuedo-mommy with money.

        Am I jealous that he is living a life of supposed coupled bliss and vacations and dinners out while his kids and I are scrimping for groceries and trying to figure out the dynamics of our “new and improved” family? You bet. But then it hits me that he is the cheapest, most joyless person on the planet. Skanko is now essentially throwing money into a black-holed heart; someone who is going to rob her blind and then toss her on a garbage heap just as soon as she is no longer useful to him. She’ll deserve it, too. Especially for the mindfuckery crap she tried out on my kids (who nicknamed her Scarol and call her that to her face).

        Oh, and he’s a plank of wood in bed, too. No amount of money, hair plugs, Viagra or alcohol is going to change that!

        To me, the road to meh isn’t smooth. There are some massive sinkholes that take time and a ridiculous amount of sheer tenacity to navigate. But what keeps me moving forward is the fear of failing my sons, refusal to believe my life story ends without me as the triumphant heroine victor, and the horizon in the distance that appears have a sunrise just over next hill, just waiting for me to show up.

      • Tempest + TheClip, I am massively struggling with the same feelings and questions.

        Apart from kid-related logistics, I have been NC with my STBX for over a year and don’t even look at him at drop off/pick up.

        If Meh is the certainty that I know I will be fine, that I I know I will build a great life for myself, and that I will do my very best to be a sane, respectful and fair parent for our kid, then I am there.

        But I can’t help myself from fuming when I think that my STBX’s selfish choices to live out his pseudo mid-life crisis put our kid in the inevitable situation to have to digest at some point growing up the indelible fact that the same person who is currently doing a masterful job at coming across as an involved, charming dad, turns out to also be a cheating, lying coward.

        Giving our only child that kind of mindfuck as a legacy is so disgusting it burns me deep every time I think of it.

        • Chumpitude
          I hope I didnt take the nation back a few steps away from Meh. I am just trying to keep it real. I want to be a bad ass… Strut my stuff down Meh Blvd but i aint there. Pointed in the right direction… But not there. And I think thats ok to tell the Nation… That I am having troubles getting there or doubting that it even exists. Somedays Meh is that fairy tale place where Chumps have big steal toe boots on from kicking so much ass and wear Teflon suits .I want big steal toe boots. I got ass to kick.
          I have silly thoughts sometimes…. I have this image of CL running like Forrest Gump… Down the road to Meh… And just like Forrest she suddenly stops and says she is done. She is tired. We all stand around and go huh? WTF? Where have I been trying to get to? And God I hope not cause this is the first time I have felt sane in a long time… I just wanna make sure that Meh is a real place.

          • I sometimes think that Meh is not about how you feel about your Ex, but it’s more about how you feel about what all of this has done to you as a person. We can look at these soul-suckers and really understand the evil that they are and say “Meh” to them. It’s a whole different ballgame when we meet our own eyes in the mirror and it takes a second to recognize ourselves. I never wanted to be the cynical, hard, sarcastic, bitter person I am today, but it’s who I am now. I didn’t ask for any of this. And I did what I needed to do in my life, what was in MY power to, do to ensure I’d have an intact family and a real partner in this life. That was all stolen from me and no one asked my permission. The open and kind person I was has been erased and replaced with a suspicious and cynical woman that I barely recognize. On the one hand I like her because no one will ever be able to hurt her again, but I kind of miss the old me who trusted people and allowed them to get close. Having that disordered douche out of my life is addition by subtraction. I’m way Meh about him. I just can’t get to Meh about who I’ve become because of him.

          • Count me as someone who also loves your posts Clip – but I pretty much love everyone on this site. We are all different people with different frames of reference and however similar our circumstances, there are variations which will affect how “meh” shows up in our lives. I agree with Tempest that it is probably more of a journey. However, with time and perspective, the pain, reminders, memories show up differently in our lives and emotional space. Part of the problem is we recognize what was done to us as “harm” and recognize that you cannot and should not respond to harm and people who intentionally harm you (to harm someone is to be intentional) in the same way you respond to a situation in which you were hurt or respond to someone who hurt you (implicit in “hurt” is not intentional). I also believe that’s from where that bullshit “forgiveness” chatter comes – the not understanding (either willful or not) of the difference between harm and hurt. We have been harmed in ways large and small – not just hurt. What was done to us was willful, malicious and intentional and an ultimate act of betrayal. Even when the wound heals, the scar will remain, and just like any scar, it may ache from time to time as a reminder. I think of meh as that scar – a healing that carries a reminder which may ache from time to time. It is important to remember that you were harmed, who harmed you and what it taught you. Understanding the meaning of things is crucial in understanding the meaning of things.

            Hugs to you Clip.

          • No setback at all TheClip, I so very much value the quality and depth of your contributions to CN.

            And I can relate to the experience of the treacherous journey that Meh is, I wanted to acknowledge that there might be different levels of Meh, some related to triggers about how we feel about our cheaters, and quite another, more challenging to me, about the consequences of his selfish actions on me and our kid.

            We are all on this recovery journey together, and yep, being Meh bound might be more accurate than arriving at Meh.

            (((TheClip)))

      • Agreed, Tempest. Meh is a journey. You can’t “get over” that sort of betrayal. It doesn’t mean we won’t go on to have fulfilling lives. It means we’ve been forever affected, like a victim of any major crime.

        You’re not bitter. You’re a crime victim.

      • Tempest, thank you. I am totally in harmony with this. I agree with CL about meh and I don’t feel admonished here. In the larger world, though, I frequently feel like some people won’t accept.that it’s reasonable that we never completely move past it when someone is harmful to us, that the harm doesn’t just disappear into some inexplicable fog. People use the word “jaded” as though it’s somehow unreasonable for us to let experience teach us to avoid future harm. (Of course, that’s probably mostly coming from people.who want us to let our walls down so they can exploit us, truth be told.)

        Thank you for this support!

  • Yup, mine worked his ass off too. Fucking a married coworker is exhausting – thank goodness for those paid-for hotel rooms at conferences where they could rest and recharge their batteries. Then the work became harder – is my wife going to find out? Is the mow going to sue me for harassment? Poor poppet was pooped. And he had to work twice as hard! And like Batman, he was often so important he was unavailable. My h the super hero. Who to blame when sahm/wife scratches her head/pukes uncontrollably/develops feminine health issues? Himself? No, kept the family in coin. Mow? No because even though an entire industry referred to her as Skippy (she spreads so easily), she was a good person and she can cause some major consequences for the bread winner. Blame the 3d party in the triangle – st Nic – and get back-up and proof of her inadequacies on the job so her possible termination is guilt free and justified.

    His was a 4 month pa with a willing wet hole at work and 2 years later the ripples continue. He said getting empty but enthusiastic validation from her was like grabbing candy from the cubicle next to his. Easy, meaningless, devoid of nutrition and became a habit. To say he’s humiliated himself by digging into a very frequented, crowded and unhygienic candy jar would be an understatement. But he’s given me material that’s pure gold.

    • nic, my cheater was doing no more work than ever yet started behaving like he was bring run ragged. For a few years, he started showing up to work, disheveled and glum. He was so stressed out about having to manage two women and his job, when he can’t manage even without the extra woman. He would cry at his desk, pull his hair out in clumps and every single woman at work felt sorry for him. I think he had his partner snowed for awhile too. Jackhole. Magically, though barely anything has changed, he is back to his regular self again. I want to use his skull to hammer nails.

      • Mine was the boss, and for several weeks the mow was going to carry the company into the next period of growth, he was so proud of her. Except she’s inept – she’s done the same job for 20 yrs and people continue to climb past her on the ladder. For a reason. She couldn’t earn, manage and produce her way into the next tax bracket, so she thought she could take the spot I’d been keeping warm for a very long time. So she caused him even more work and serious damage control when he figured out she was no better than a masturbation tool. He’s got narc tendencies and seems to fall for people (both sexes) who are full of shit in business a lot. It’s like success hopium, he just wants so much to believe them. It’s work chumpiness. It even applies to unskilled labourers who are clearly unhinged and possibly could be dangerous upon termination – he always gives them too many chances and the benefit of the doubt. I think in his case he wants success and progress so badly he’s blind to the bullshit. Just like I wanted the marriage and family so badly I ate the bullshit by the shovel full.

        • Yikes. Asshat used to be an owner/partner of a practice and now he’s an employee of a large hospital system. He is never satisfied with either arrangement. He, of course, could not think of an alternative. Freelance, contract specialist? He trusts all these women and, even men, who are clearly sparkly BSers but also overreacts sometimes and makes snap judgments I don’t see any logic in. I have a nagging fear he is a neurological thing going on so I need to get us out before it all goes to hell in a handcart.

    • He sure has! Poor Skippy-popped poopet,. “digging into a very frequented, crowded and unhygienic candy jar “….eeuurrgghh!

  • Work is where my EX met OW – (20 years younger, newly married, 2 Ft. Taller)
    Always came home in time for my gourmet dinner – around 6:00ish – except that he didn’t have to stay after 4:30, but I was told that he was either finishing up a job or that he was jogging around his workplace. NOT!! This was the time he Fucking OW in the Guest Suite of his workplace.

    OW befriended me, and used to come to my house for dinner often, I’m pretty sure that she was in my home right after their little fuck fest at work. SICK SICK – both of them!!

    This was why I was in denial for so long, because he was always home for dinner, always with me on the weekends, Except when he was “on-call” – and had to go in. Yes, she was working too on those days.
    Such a fool I was. No, I was a trusting soul, and that’s what I’m supposed to do – Trust my husband!

    • yes, trusting the asshat. but then he trusted me too. trusted me to take care of everything he fucked up and I did a damn good job at it too. now he trusts her. it burns my ass that he is now letting her make the decisions that I used to be good enough for. so much so that everything I say now is twisted and obscured into something I never even thought of.

      so when mrsvain says “Diablo, It would be better for the children if you came to our house for visitations. they want your undivided attention plus there are things here that they want to show you and do with you”. Diablo says “hold on” then comes back saying “no, I am not going to YOUR house, you just want to control me. you want to supervise my visits. you just want me to go over so you can get me back”
      hmmm, I wonder where all that came from. knowing that diablo is not smart enough to put so many complete sentences in a row like that.

      bitch ass sucks

  • “When D-Day hit, I found a certain amount of relief — oh, so THAT’s where you were! One of the great advantage of escaping a cheater is the peace that comes from not relying on these jerks. You’ll feel a burden has been lifted, because you realize quite quickly how much work you were doing to keep their chaotic, uninvested life whole. Direct that energy towards yourself. Let Mr/s Cheaterpants find a new personal assistant.”

    Yes. This.

    I relish in the thought that he now has OW as his new assistant. She was his subordinate so she has no clue what it took to run my household with 3 small kids and never doing anything “right” or “good enough”. Since the affair was exposed he was moved and she saw the writing on the wall and got a work from home job. He’s got her right where he wants her. Being his most awesome assistant. At the moment she is better than I ever was. A true team player and a real partner in their relationship. (barf) I’m having bouts of deja vu. Same shit he told ex wife #1 about me. History always repeats itself.

  • My ex is a consultant in obs and gynae.The hospital provided him with the perfect hunting ground for an eclectic mix of sexual conquests….nurses,other doctors,patients,secretaries….and he had them all,women who worked together,knew each other.They,nor I,had any clue they were members of a narcissist’s harem.
    He was able to juggle it all for years before he was busted and of course his erratic working hours provided perfect cover…and the fact that he’s got a room with a bed in it in the hospital….for when he had to do those middle of night deliveries ….not.Stone cold sociopath.
    I also feel stupid for believing he was who he pretended to be,for buying the glib,superficial charm.

    • Oh yes, the hospital settings are tailor made for nefarious goings on! Mine was a medical student at the time, and had no shortage of nurses and other medical workers to pick from. (Surprisingly, none of the female med students ever seemed interested, but I think maybe it was because this was the early eighties, when they were still relatively rare and had to work twice as hard for half the recognition of the guys.)

      His main AP was a nurse. That would be our dear Natalie! I guess in all fairness, she was a pretty good one, as she wound up at the same nationally recognized medical center as did my ex, years later. He was anxious to tell me about it!)

      The long hours at a teaching hospital provided great cover!

      • Guess that’s why all those soap operas are set in hospitals, lol. I remember watching General Hospital with my grand mother, decades ago.

    • FWIW, the OW who I ended my marriage over, the nefarious Dr.Ho, is also an OB/GYN. I feel so much pity for her patients! And Gawd, she is stupid. And mean. And of course, racist. An unbeatable combo.

      Crapweasel, on the other hand, had recently been hired into one of the best jobs of his life, as VP in a really interesting startup. Of course, he couldn’t stop (visibly) texting Dr.Ho, and he was actually fired over his behavior… and I would have said his one redeeming characteristic is his talent and commitment to work.

      Narcs.

  • Small town New Hampshire
    My soon to be X told me he was going to the town’s Zoning Board Meeting…well the minutes of these are public, and posted on line. The Zoning Board Meeting adjourned at 7:45PM and he did not get home until after 11PM.

    I was a fool.
    I was lost.
    Now I am found.
    He is in the rear view mirror!
    I am at peace.
    Thank goodness!

  • Mine has the PERFECT job for a cheating narcissist – news reporter. Oh, he’s so exciting, travelling the world and hobnobbing with the rich and powerful. The mundane “peasants” just can’t understand how amazing and important he is.

    And frankly, everywhere we’d go, strangers would feed his ego, recognizing him and singling him out for special treatment – free stuff, better service, the best table, etc. He put in very little effort with the typical narcissistic entitlement because it came naturally to him due to his career.

    He made a lot of money – which constantly burned a hole in his pocket – and worked long hours, which enabled his lying and cheating, as did the travel. I never knew where he was and even learned much of the time he wasn’t where he said he was or with whom he was supposed to be.

    All that to say, his next partner – and I’m sure he has one on the hook already, no matter his sad sausage “please come back to me” games – will have the same problems. That’s the way he rolls and my only consolation.

    • Sad in Seattle, my ex traveled so much it got to be where I didn’t even care where he was. The kids stopped noticing when he was gone. He also considered his job as his life, it was changing the world and going to be famous for his contributions to society. Lots of adoration from female coworkers. Sounds similar to your ex!

      • Yes – very similar!

        It’s especially challenging when the rest of world – including the fawning public and pretty young girls who just want to be on TV – validate his amazingness!

        Someone will be in for a massive surprise when he starts banging hookers, over spending, drinking too much, withholding sex, and generally making her feel like the problem. Little do they know… Mwahahahaha.

        • SIS, I wonder if our Ex’s know each other? Got ideas and encouragement from each other? Exchanged the name of the (in my opinion) bottom feeding, combative, bi polar lawyer to use? My Long term lying, cheating, financially deceptive, std carrying Ex was the sparkly big shot executive at “a major telecommunications industry”, adored by literally thousands of employees whose livelihoods he controlled, sitting on various art and education boards, appearing in the media at various times looking like quite the stand up guy… Or at least he was until he quite unexpectedly got terminated this summer, just seven months after our divorce was finally gaveled to a close! This may be a major city, but it’s pretty tight within industry segments.. And mine too hunted for sexual conquests from the work pool. Didn’t stop even with several sexual harassment charges brought against him in his long term career with this company. Just curious… We should have coffee sometime….

        • Speaking of the perfect jobs for a cheater, airline pilot, X is Capt. for a major airline.
          He would be eager to tell me stories of the other married pilots and their indiscretions,
          some had girlfriends in other countries, or how blatantly “other” pilots flirted with waitresses,
          or picked up some girl.
          Afterwards X would tell me how honest his is and I’m lucky I was to be married to
          someone with so much integrity.
          An example of what a Chump I am, when the book “The Pilots Wife” was popular
          friends would ask me if I was concerned about X being unfaithful.
          My response was, “no, not at all, X loves us too much and values his family.”

          You’re right Seattle when he’s asked what his occupation is the usual reaction
          of people is admiration and the barrage of questions is more validation to his
          amazingness. You can see it in his face.., See everyone else adores me..
          His words when he left, “I’m a pilot,” what are you?
          This is my appreciation after supporting him and “our” career for over 20 years.

          • My STBX is also of the “sparkly big-shot” variety, only in the arts. The constant round of travel to meetings and gallery openings all over the country, the “feminist” commitment to mentoring female artists (all of whom are built like boys, keep reading), the inconsistent hours coupled with being his own boss–as well as the opportunity to hook up with lots of other closeted cake-eaters–converged to create the Perfect-Storm Big Bang from which his narcissistic cheater’s paradise was born.

            • I suppose for me the best revenge – aside from living well – is knowing this will happen over and over with every woman he aims his laser beam of sparkles at. There’s only so long he will be able to keep up the act.

              If I’d had more self esteem when we first met – and had I not been so impressed that this dashing, successful, handsome man was interested in little ‘ol me – I would have run, not walked, from him. He was selfish and had a reputation from the very start.

              He’s probably gotten his black belt in deception since we got together so it will likely take a while but a leopard doesn’t change its spots!

        • I had a ‘super-star’ businessman. All his peers called him The King, or something. (I’m sure in jest) He worked from home and there was no way he had a chance to find another woman..as I did work along side him. Until, we started to travel to dog shows, where he could work from the m/h. Well, he met the horse-face there – where else would he meet one since he didn’t work in a cubicle in a normal downtown office? Grabbed the first chance he got. Her and I were ‘great buddies’ too, for 5 yrs traveling together. That’s when all these business trips started coming up…and he couldn’t wait for me to leave for a dog show for the weekend. And dammit – I didn’t expect a thing and kept ignoring my gut .. and she apparently spent every weekend at my house while I was gone. I went thru garbage one night getting home, thinking I was hitting bottom of the barrel on my suspicions….because he put it out early, and all I found was a bunch of cigarette butts – like lots of them. pew. I knew X liked the odd smoke but it looked like 2 packs. Doh me for closing up the bag quickly. He said there were fruit flys in it and why he put it out early.

          The mind-fuck relating that means I’m definitely at meh these days and glad to reach it. It’s worth the trip up the mountain!!

          • Remember the words of the Carly Simon song: “he’s a legend in his own mind…a hero.” This is the hallmark of the narcissist, the grandiosity. They are the bestest! Until they’re not. My XH lost a job he’d had for 6 years and felt important in, and that’s when the cheating started. He suddenly couldn’t find work in our state, and then couldn’t come home except one weekend a month. So easy to cheat, with arrogance and entitlement because he’s “all that!” But then in the next 10 years he had 8 more “I’m the star!” Jobs. All out of state or even country. I worked full time and raised 4 kids while his AP was available to live & vacation with him. Now, meh is easier because he lives 3000 miles away & I’ve never had to see much of him or the APs. Oh yeah, cheated on them too. One called me when she found out he’d been living with her & cheating with a high school friend. She couldn’t believe he would cheat on Her! Funny but sad.

    • SIS… Are you a little relieved? Fixing your picker and looking for someone who won’t spend All his time being dotted upon?

      I once heard that there’s always a flower and a gardener in relationships. One who waters, one who is the one who needs watering. I don’t know about you guys but that to me is ducked up. (Yep. Ducked like a slough. Trying to swear less). What I want is someone who wants to lean, and be leaned on. A gosh darn symbiotic relationship… Why the hell would anyone want to be a gardener alllllll the damn time? Of course being the flower sounds amazing- you don’t have to do anything … And I often think it makes total sense…. People who are selfish generally assume the flower and chumps assume the Gardener position (bending over the barrel for their rake) (or a hoe, not the type the flower wants) … But it’s not healthy. It’s gross. Let’s change this.

      • Hi creativerational: I’m working on fixing it. Like all of us, I accepted a lot of very, very unacceptable things for many years, making my needs smaller and smaller until they were nonexistent. He frequently said things like “there’s something fundamentally wrong with you,” etc. and I believed it because, well, deep down I thought the exact same thing!

        I’m thinking about starting to date, seeing who else is out there. It might take my mind off things and help me move forward. My ex was such a horrible person – from withholding affection to screaming obscenities at me on a regular basis – that I feel pretty broken.

        However, this experience has made my boundaries really, really strong so it might be a good time to start. Even though I’m still sad, I’m starting to watch the world go by from my window and wondering why I’m giving my ex any more mental real estate via my grief.

  • Oh yes, I have so much I could say on this topic but I’ll focus on my exH’s amazing ability to be underemployed for a good part of our marriage, yet have the gall to call me out when I could not balance the finances. He made out like I’d been holding him back somehow from some sort of financial greatness? So he left me paying two mortgages completely alone to move in directly with Schmoopie who already had a larger home than ours. In my devastation I believed that he’d become the breadwinner for her he rarely ever was for us. Fast forward to today when he is a year behind on spousal support, and 2 months behind on a vehicle he owes more on than it is worth. Who knows what else. Trust they SUCK!!

  • My ex was always “jipped on his paycheck, again” when he was working. Construction season, so summer only. Jipped meaning calling in sick to work and driving to the mistress’s house. I found out exactly how often he did this after d-day (you know, when we were in wreckonciliaton) when I got 2 tickets to the tune of $300 for unpaid tolls and fines for said unpaid tolls. Couldn’t even be bothered to pay the freaking tolls, he was in such a hurry to get to her house.

    At least I got reimbursement from him in the divorce settlement.

    During the winter while he was getting a decent sized check from unemployment (seasonal work and all), he was constantly complaining to everyone about how hard it was to not be working and how hard I was on him for it. You mean, the hours of internet pork and trolling for hookups before leaving 20 minutes before I got home from that factory job he never respected?

    This factory job has done quite nicely after I got rid of that drain on my soul.

  • Obviously, this doesn’t address the portion of cheating narcissistic who are actually good at their jobs. My ex is still in school and just starting off so there is plenty of time for him to mess up, but he has a 4.0 GPA and has done quite well in grad school. His work at the internship where his met his AP was very highly praised. Of course, he has a tendency to consider himself and “expert” on things that he has studied for 2 months (i.e. Somehow at 27 years old and without even finishing is master’s he is an expert in both Chinese domestic policy and Nepalese response to natural disasters). He tends to undervalue the skills he lacks, like speaking Chinese. But it seems to me at least that everyone is more than willing to supply him with all his kibble.

    I get frustrated because people treat him like a super star, and like they can totally count on him. When I know that he is a selfish narcissist and he will turn his back and walk away when things get hard. People on his life don’t seem to see it though, and since it is all covered in a veil of actual competence I guess I can’t really blame them.

    Of course, I was with him and supporting him when he wasn’t doing quite as well. I stood by him, and even rejected better offers to do my PhD because they were in universities that my ex had not gotten into (I got into some impressive places, but I didn’t consider going there because my ex couldn’t come with me). So I sacrificed a little for our marriage, and we came here and I still got a fully funded lab in a Tier 1 research University, just without very flashy name. Then, I supported us financially for the first year while he waited to get in. He finally got in, and started being a little super star and suddenly I wasn’t ambitious enough and I didn’t support him enough.

    • I’m pretty sure CL did one of these on the super-sparkly people who are actual achievers, but I can’t remember when it was. Research time!

  • Yes, the relief of finally getting off the disordered treadmill!

    My x started a side business which was the perfect cover. I encouraged him because it was his dream. What a useful source of drama and pity-inducing “stress.” Except that the seduction letter I found that triggered the third and final DDay was written on the very Saturday afternoon he had to prepare for a presentation, looked like he was going to have a breakdown and sequestered himself away for hours “working.” I remember comforting him and encouraging him that day.

    Even after the truth came out, people would still express concern to me about all the stress x was under with the demands of his side business. When I said he always found time to cheat, so I wasn’t sure how much stress it really caused, they would give me looks like they were surprised I wasn’t willing to give him the consideration he deserved.

    Oh, well. Not my circus any more, thank goodness!

  • Yes, working late….I got that, too. And all of those calls from his coworkers that he claimed were about work…..but were just him flirting and sexting.

  • I had the opposite problem. My STBE said I was “married to my job” because I spent 11-12 hours/day at my medical practice, and looked at work-related emails after dinner (I am my large group’s treasurer). Nevermind we went out to eat dinner together 3-4 nights/week, took luxury vacations every 2 months, and she had an unlimited allowance from my successful practice which she utilized to the fullest. My long days allowed her to shack up with her long-distance AP at mid-point cheap hotels 120 miles away. Now that’s she gone I realize how easy it is to make a decent meal for my daughter and me (I have full custody) despite working long hours, and how little my ex actual did except complain about being ignored and living “parallel lives”. (She rarely cooked; if we didn’t eat out we had takeout or frozen pizzas.) It sucks though how the “no-fault” idiocy treats breadwinning chumps as a chump all over again.

    • Oh how I agree! I’m paying 1/3rd of my income to the ex-ho even though she has a decent job in a cheaper place right near her AP who is paying for many of her costs. She’s also using some of the money to pay her half of our daughters college, which means I’m funding the whole education but she gets credit for it. Mine turned out to be a serious Gold Digging Leach.

  • My ahole cheater never would take any pto. I thought that strange but you cant force someone to participate in your life. After dday found out he would use pto for his affair. He would say he was off to work but never went. I never called him at work. He would come home as usual the next day. I also came to realize that him getting home an hour after he got off work probably was cheating too. Now his preferred time method of cheating is his lunch hour. It happens to be in the middle of the night! F**er!

    • Snowflake, I know the pain of this all too well! He could not take even one day for his family or me, but managed to run off at the drop of a hat to spend 10 days with Schmoopie! Then it was long weekends, then it became apparent he didn’t give a shit about work and would only actually be at his workplace maybe 2 days out of the week! I feel cheated! I would make reservations for a holiday planned in advance and would have to cancel, losing money because he just couldn’t get the time off! Fucker! It stings!

      • Roberta

        Years I wasted waiting and wondering why he couldn’t plan a fucking thing with me and he led a double life all along.

        • My first red flag should have been when we quit planning trips together.
          He just said…you go alone. I’m too busy working.

    • Snowflake, the ex could NEVER take any PTO either for anything until he started the affair. Just made me realize that he had been lying the whole time, so I wasn’t really shocked because, get this, HE IS A LIAR. That’s exactly who he is and he will never change. Her problem now.

      • WOW, mine had so much PTO time built up he was not earning it anymore, Why take PTO when you can get all the time you need with HOworker while you are at work and BJ under the desk or on top of the desk in her private office!

  • My husband met his whore on the proverbial out of town work trip. He went to Indiana to drop off a cattle trailer and headed to Chicago for the business trip. He met her, night one…stayed 4 EXTRA nights. Company paid for it all. He came home, amped up….I was finalizing our family vacation. Needless to say he became VERY busy at work after that. So busy he missed our family vacation. And now was working weekends. I cut hair for people he worked with…the company was very busy. I had no reason to question him. I worked from home.
    Once DDay came….I got the bank statements…..the airfares, the hotels, rental cars…..all paid for by his company to get his weekly suck and swallow.
    He did get stuck in Chicago one weekend. Had no money, had maxed out the company credit card and asked his company to Western Union him money to get back home. Needless to say the company grounded him for a while. Not long….from the President on down….it’s a club of cheaters. Every manager in his company had cheated on their wives and divorced and married their whores. So it’s not frowned upon. I later found out he had screwed several of his coworkers as well….
    I blindly trusted him.. he was always a good provider, worked 30 years in the same company. I used to be proud of him for that. Now I realize he is just good at bullshit ting them like he was me. Faithful to a company…..nope….lied…stole….worked from home when he was really hunting….or later….screwing her.

    I appreciate his job…..I get a nice alimony check for the next 4 years and the company 401K has produced BIG. Soooooo…… Keep up the good work honey!!!!

  • Yes, Whoremonger worked about 30 minutes away. Got off at six. Managed to drag home by eight or nine. Not only did that give him time to yap/stop at the whores for a fuck fest, it has the added benefit of me getting off work, picking up our preschooler, fixing dinner, cleaning, etc for three hours by myself. She was about ready for bed by the time he graced us with his presence. And despite working a full time job and taking care of our child pretty much single handedly, he and whore loved to discuss how LAZY I am. Fuck you both.

    • damn, another thing I forgot. diablo worked every Saturday for the last 2 years at that job he got after my daughters death. I did not find out until after the divorce papers were filed that on Saturdays he got off at 2:00pm (went in at 6, left the house at 5am) but he wouldn’t get home until 6 or 7 pm at night. To this day I have NO IDEA what he did during that time. 4 hours every Saturday. until he just stopped coming home all together on Saturdays.

  • The first time my cheater cheated on me, she was jobless and I was in class getting my bachelors degree. The second time, she called in sick and cheated on me while I was at work.

    When D-Day hit, I too found a certain amount of relief knowing that she had been plotting behind my back and that she cannot hurt me anymore.

  • My ex told a coworker, “what goes on at work stays at work”. Nah. I found out. Shame on her. And I made damn sure people knew her shame too. It wasn’t my issue or decision so I wasn’t going to live with it.

  • I have another “working late” cheater. He was banging his married coworker. I never got all the details but I’m pretty sure it involved a lot of quickies in her house (near their office) on lunch breaks. I’m pretty sure the physical part of the affair began on a business trip. I even remember how unavailable he was on one week-long business trip to Florida. I texted him in the evening after the days work should have been done and he didn’t respond until 2am. I asked him the next day why he responded so late, something pinged within me at that point, and he said the reception in the hotel was really bad and he didn’t even get the text until 2am. So I asked why on earth he was awake so late. He ignored the question.

    I remember how he would usually arrive home at a certain time. I worked, too, but I would always be the one to pick up and drop off our daughter at daycare. He usually arrived home about the same time as me. When the affair was going on he would arrive an hour late or more, which messed up dinner plans. Never called or texted but I assumed he was stuck in traffic. I asked him to let me know if he was running late, he said he would, but it took a lot of reminding to get him to start telling me. Then a few weeks before D-Day he started telling me how late he was going to be and to do dinner on my own so I would stop at a restaurant with my daughter on the way home and eat dinner. I distinctly remember thinking “so this is what it might feel like to be a single parent. This is what it would be like to be divorced.” I don’t know why I thought that, but something deep inside probably knew.

    My daughter and I do a lot of dinner dates, and it’s actually really nice to get to spend the time with her. For a 4 year old she’s a pretty adventurous eater.

    • I can so relate to you, Kim. It was all those missed dinners I found eating alone (no kids). Or lunch dates quit happening. And, the traveling we used to do was gone and I was traveling alone when he used to go with me. So much was telling me there was something going on and I also felt….hmmm…I feel single (HOW AWFUL!) and it just got worse from there. Now that I’m single, well, the world is my oyster and, through this site, I found out he lost a great thing with me. His friend for 36 yrs, companion, lover, besties for sure..what a damn shame to throw all that history and family away.

  • Yep, ex trolled for women mostly at work, although he did not limit it to work – he liked to try and fuck my friends as well, it seems. But this is my fault because he was unhappy, I didn’t notice/ask enough/just wasn’t all that great at making him feel like a special bunny. Hahaha… what a twat I married. 🙂

    He also was always complaining about ‘idiots at work’. Nope, they didn’t understand his greatness, his wonderfulness, his unique and unusual talents. So he kept quitting or getting fired. Oddly, he remains successful, mainly because his snow job game is top notch.

    • “…this is my fault because he was unhappy, I didn’t notice/ask enough/just wasn’t all that great at making him feel like a special bunny…”

      I love this 🙂

  • Working late was a common excuse but the really big excuse was “I am going out with my two friends”. They “the minions” covered for him. One minion gave me marriage advice on how to my dick head happier countless times. Now…no dick head, no minions!!!

  • Oh boy…every single word of this post fits. I would only add the constant play for sympathy because, you know, he was “working” so hard. Sick.

    He never admitted that he wasn’t working all that time he spent away from home, even in the face of concrete evidence I had to the contrary. It continues to be one of the most maddening aspects in all of this. He refused to let go of this fake image even though we both knew the truth. Crazymaking 101.

    The upside is that I was so used to doing 99.9% of child and home care that my day-to-day responsibilities changed very little when he moved out. Meanwhile, my sense of peace went through the roof. Funny how that worked out.

    • I noticed that as well. I was already doing pretty much everything so to be honest it wasn’t any extra work. If anything, it was less because he wasn’t around creating more laundry, etc.

  • Saw X last night. He came back from a long trip. He spoke to me as if he was now a genius mathematician who is going to make the next significant discovery in the realm of Big Data applied to Homeland Security. Quite an interesting conversation we had, although what I wanted to hear were news of the family, and what were his wishes regarding our relationship. I wanted to know why he still comes around once a week and acts as if he still owns the refrigerator. He behaves as the Russian Mathematician with Autism who refused the medals and $1 million…well, he surely is as impolite as him. But his workplace does not seem to appreciate his genius. That’s why he made a trip, to be interviewed for new job positions. He did not think they were good enough. He is probably going to stay where he is, and where he has been for the past 15 years. Oh, and he almost had a fight with two different people, while in the metro, and is proud to tell about it. And he wears the same old clothes over and over, he does not buy anything new.
    I can’t help but feel sorry for him. What if he is unable to relate to people normally ? Or maybe he is merely a jerk.

    • ChumpfromF, he could be a high-functioning autistic person. Maybe Asperger’s? That’s what my IC suggested could be the issue with my ex, who was also very scientifically minded.

      • I have wondered all along. But the Aspies I know are honest, not manipulative or vicious. He is definitely not kind to people.

        • ChumpFromF, that’s a good point. I have an Aspie family member and come to think of it, I don’t think she could be manipulative. However, there was definitely something wrong with my ex in the emotional department. Not sure if he was repressed by very strict, emotionless father from an early age, or had brain damage from multiple concussions playing sports in high school. Definitely some disconnect, didn’t really understand the concept of empathy. Very bright, though. Very hard worker. Very manipulative.

        • Aspies aren’t prone to lying or cheating. While they may be highly intelligent, they are rule bound. Sociopaths, on the other hand .,.,,,

        • My stbx wondered aloud to one of our daughters if he could be autistic because he felt no empathy for people.
          There is definitely something off about him but it isn’t autism.

          When our daughter asked her uncle, who is very close with his brother, if he thought her Dad was a narcissist, he replied, “no, worse than that”. When she ventured sociopath, he agreed. This, from his brother who is a lawyer experienced in dealing with criminals.

          • Jenny, that something “off” and not having empathy (or faking empathy) is called SOCIOPATHY. Ask me how I know.

  • Mine was a SAHM. Even when our girls were in high school and when one went off to college. She had WAY too much time on her hands. And she really didn’t do much in the way of house work. I was the ultimate chump. She asked for the divorce two weeks after dropping our youngest at college. She had it all planned and timed exactly as she wanted. It/she sucks!

  • Yes, my ex worked late. She’s in public service, so there were required night meetings with the public for local projects. However, there sure were MANY such meetings the first few months of her affair…until I realized what was going on. Her AP, also in public service, was stationed down in the same location as the “public meetings.” Whether the meetings happened or not, it sure was a good way to meet up!

    Also, no one would confuse my ex for a hard worker. We all have to put in extra hours (some of us all the time; others of us when the job demands extra effort.) She complained about extra effort whenever she was required to do it, and even moreso when I was required to do it at my own job. And I’d agree that we could work less and earn less — just as soon as she agreed to leave the most expensive housing market in the country.

    When I complained to her about her staying up late texting her colleague (or, in her parlance, “playing card games on her phone”), she’d say that she was responding to work texts because “the work is new, and I love it, and I really really want to do a good job.”

    It turned out to be doing a good job at seducing another man.
    And doing a bad job at hiding her affair.
    And a bad job at keeping me married to her.

    To my ex, and her job well done!

  • I got the total work mind fuck. My ex POS whore was always ‘working’ late, overseas facility crisis, and I never saw much of her. On days when she would be home, I wanted to maximize our time together by staying in, and simply enjoying her company/dote on her, etc… Yep, after D-day a reason she gave why she cheated; I never wanted to go anywhere!!! She also took great pleasure it seems, standing over me while I booked her ‘work’ hotel reservations on my laptop… Every one of them were connected to work sponsored hook-ups. Boy the sick thrill that must have given her.

    One day, she left a company newspaper open to the page that her and her co-cheaters photos were right next to each other, saying it was just coincidence. Even after D-day, she gaslit the shit out of me a bunch of times in front of my daughter, saying “mom was only going to dinner with a co-worker” (translated dad is a crazy, jealous, controlling asshole). But what do you expect from a POS who used to joke on the phone with her fellow cheater mom that my daughter called her a homewrecker… Ex POS would yuk it up with slut mom, calling herself “the happy homewrecker”… No fucking lie. Sick fucker.

    I hate thinking about this. Even after 23 years of marriage, I was still excited to see her get up on weekends, help her with every aspect of her career advancement, cherish her accomplishments, support her fully because I thought we were a team. Now, if she dropped dead, the world is better off for it.

  • “The workplace is the ideal place for secret kibble production” This really resonates with me this morning. Yesterday at work, I witnessed a subordinate female employee heavily flirting up a superior married male employee with kids at home. It was almost predatory and He was eating it up. He often mentions how happy he is working 2nd shift to get away from his home. I thought, “so this is how it’s done…this is how it starts….” The married male did nothing to rebuff or re-establish the required professional code of conduct. In fact, I am sure my presence there, just toned down their antics. It made me sick, triggering thoughts of my philandering father and cheater spouse.

    • oh boy, this is such psychological trigger for me! I’ve watched various co-workers and even acquaintances, do this and it’s sick to see this unfold right in front of our eyes. The first time it happened, shortly after my DD, it was almost interesting to observe how these things are indeed conducted. Both married co-workers were flirting openly in front of the entire office at a informal get together. It dawned on me then: they didn’t care who saw and heard. They just didn’t care. There was no subtle context. It was done in the open in front of the World to see.

    • This is when I find out their wife’s details and give her a heads up. Fuck the both of those philandering pricks. Its fucking sick.

      • It’s so easy for a cheater to find another person with no boundaries. I was never approached at work (I was cute & much younger) because I didn’t send out the vibe. My colleague did. And she got some action. She ended up being a cheater in her marriage. She just figured men wanted her more than they wanted me, but they were cads, married and single.

        There’s no skill or courting ritual needed to get laid at work – just be ready for some ruttin after the open bar at the sales meeting.

    • I’m watching the blossoming of an affair at work too. It’s disgusting,and it’s making me trigger badly. What I noticed was how nice the male co-worker is now. He’s happier and more apt to be a team player, whereas before it was like pulling teeth for him to do something for someone else. Ah the blush of new, butterfly in the stomach love. I think I will get him some sparkly markers so he can make little hearts on his notebook while writing the ow name all over. GAG!!!!

      It’s sad to see it all play out, knowing that this is more than likely how x played it at work. I got all the left over, shitty moods at home. But at least he was happy at work. Sick motherf*ers. They deserve each other. Female co-worker is a cheater too, so it’s a match made in hell. They really do deserve each other.

  • If there was a way to calculate the actual $ value of a spouse I think we would all be amazed. It is hard to calculate a value for all the services a stay at home spouse provides if the working spouse had to pay for them because of the wide variety of services. Anyone who has ever spent 24/7 with an infant or toddler knows that accomplishing even small tasks is challenging. Have you ever tried to cook while comforting a sick child who wants your undivided attention and who might just require immediate attention no matter what you are doing? There was a time when my boys were small that it was a big deal to be able to take a shower, or have a minute to myself in the bathroom. So nanny, cook, housekeeper, chauffeur, accountant, personal shopper, administrative assistant and mistress in the boudoir — all those roles, and no direct paycheck or benefits. In addition — when it is time to retire, the years without income and retirement plan contributions — plus (often) unequal pay, and yet spouses that provide these benefits — some while they are working another job — are lazy? Not providing for the other spouse’s needs? Really?

    Only a completely selfish ass would say “My work is MORE important” or, “What are you doing for ME, right now, and how can you do more?” I remember an argument where I was told my job was insignificant, and I had to point out that my job had paid the mortgage, utilities and groceries during the time we were “waiting” for his deals to close and his commission to come. Some of those deals never did show up. Just how can anyone be THAT self important?

    Working late? Working to provide for the family? How about the travel and entertainment expense for the affair partner? How about the family and school events that were missed for the children? What was the cost of all that? How do you ever get it back?

    What does a lie cost, really? Is there any compensation for the loss of trust? How do you ever reconcile the cost of a marriage dissolution? Yes, I know we “settle”. But there is never true restitution.

    • Portia –

      I was a SAHM, did all the above, and also worked at different times in my life. Much, much easier to drop the kids off and go to work.

      You receive immediate gratification for a job well done in the office and a paycheck to spend as you please. SAHM’s have to be patient for their rewards and account for the finances.

      I commend any woman in the home. I admit there were many days at the office that I would have given up the money and the accolades for a mop and a kid.

      Any person, other than a construction worker, who complained of a hard day and used it as an excuse to do nothing in the home was never a SAH mother or father. It takes grit to raise children.

      • I took care of both of my children for their 1st year — I nursed them, so I couldn’t be far away. I also ran a family business, taking them into work with me, and sometimes I had help. Those were two of the hardest years of my life — and two of the most personally rewarding. I cannot imagine how hard life was for SAHM when there was no electricity, no personal transportation, no quick trip’s to the grocery or drug store, no indoor plumbing — I don’t think I would have survived the frontier! I have great regard and respect for anyone doing that job, too!

        I enjoy working outside of the home because I can have an identity of my own, and a sense of accomplishment. I also like having my own check and benefits. I could never have done it without help — and I am NOT talking about my spouse. I thank God for the babysitters, and family and friends who pitched in when I needed it most. To think that the spouse not only did not help, but also used that time (and numerous other occasions) to cheat is the worst thing to me. I was working in good faith, thinking our future was going to be provided for through a joint effort, and that we were both doing the best that we could to provide for our children and our future together. What a chump!

        The betrayal is not a search for personal growth — it is a fundamentally selfish act and a pervasion of any sense of fairness. Anyone who “works late” for the family and is actually cheating deserves the karma bus. Until someone does that to them, they will never know how devastating that is.

    • Portia “Working late? Working to provide for the family? How about the travel and entertainment expense for the affair partner? How about the family and school events that were missed for the children? What was the cost of all that? How do you ever get it back?”

      You really said it all for me with this. Me in France with our three small children watching their end of year show by myself while he was working “late shift”, and I was having to explain to the children why Daddy couldn’t be there to see them. He was with whore number four in SPAIN for two days! Fucking bastard.

      What did I get from that day? The pure joy of seeing my lovely boys’ smiling faces at their show, and massive hugs and kisses from them afterwards.

      And what did he get from it? Food poisoning at the hotel in Spain and a night spent shitting himself on the bathroom floor. He even had the nerve to tell me (after I’d found out everything, including photos of them on holiday together) that “it was really embarrassing”. I laughed so hard, I nearly soiled myself too. Karma, don’t you just love it?

  • If I werent no contact with my cheater, I would have copied and pasted this email to him. In the beginning of our marriage he did work over time because we needed the money. But in the end he used that excuse to spend money on his mistress in disgusting motel six. He always told me I didnt work enough hours and always found things to complain about…. The kicker? He works for a very successful factory here in the PNW and almost got canned, he had to transfer to somewhere else… and what did he say, “his supervisor was harassing him.” Little did he know my uncle working at the same place had looked at his file….. harrassment of other employees and out of his area with his affair partner…….. Isnt that always how it works with a NARC? everyone else’s fault? I think it was then I realized what a complete and total psycho he was…. nothing but a pathological liar.. and I cant figure it out… do they believe these lies? Because they certainly run with them for ridiculous amounts of time.

  • This is the topic I feel the chumpiest. My ex was in IT and always had to work on the network after everyone was logged off so he did a lot of work in the evening/weekend in the the basement while I took care of the kids, the house, etc. I left him sequestered in his own little porn/EA world in my own dang house for years! His infamous line that I am so glad to be rid of is”but when have I got time?” He spent our entire marriage cheating/trying to find a virtual fuck buddy so he could make money shot videos etc. He likes to claim to be married, stable family man – in reality, he sees his AP/wife for 2-3 weeks a year while on vacation (he lives in Canada/ she is in USA) and rarely sees his own children that live in the same city. Still, 6 years out, I prefer raising my children in my own but I can’t shake the “I failed my children miserably” mindset.

    • Whoa, there, PhysicsGal. You gave you children the gift of a strong woman who demanded respect from her spouse and did not abandon her children. How is that failure?

      You are taking on the dad’s responsibility of failing miserably as a father. Stop it.

      There are good male role models you can point out to them as they grow.

    • You didn’t fail your children PhysicsGal. He did. I don’t know how old they are, but I had a conversation with my 25 year old daughter recently, and I had to push back tears as she told me, ” Of course we noticed that you were the responsible parent; dad was always the ‘fun parent’, and you had to be the disciplinarian. I don’t know how you did it… it’s a real tribute to your abilities as a parent.” Wow! I can’t tell you how many times I beat myself up before hearing that! If they aren’t old enough to understand it now PhysicsGal, I’ll bet they will when they’re older.

    • You could not have failed your children, in so far as your cheating spouse’s actions are not within your control, at all.

      As others have pointed out, you will help them immeasurably by providing a sane, caring, responsible example for them!

    • PhysicsGal–I have struggled with this, too. I had an inability to focus, or to be happy, and was often so stressed from trying to please He-who-could-not-be-pleased for much of our marriage, that I have berated myself from the effect my stress had on the kids. And yet…a few months back when CL had a column about what our patronus would be, my daughter suggested mine should be “mama grizzly.” Kids appreciate more than you realize.

      • My kids don’t Tempest. My son actually told me in a text in January this year that he was “appalled at what I am”. That very statement brought me to my knees, in fact it is one of the many I have had thrown at me by my son. I did ask him “what am I” and he never responded because he knew he had no where to go with that absolute rot. I know that my heart will never heal over my 2 children. They were the reason I got out of bed everyday and gave 110% of myself to everything for their benefit. I hope they remember that one day. Sorry for the rant but I still cry over my kids.

        • Your children are entitled jerks who obviously take more after their father; your genes must have evaporated during their puberty. I don’t blame you for crying; their betrayal is IMHO even worse than that of your X because of your tremendous investment and love for them.

          I wish you were state-side so we could chat over a margarita; it is unbelievable what you have endured. Hugs, Maree.

          • Oh Tempest, you had me at margarita. One of my favourite drinks !!! 🙂 Yes it is a pity I live in Australia which is so far away. I went on a trip last May 2014 and there were 100 Americans and about 50 Aussies. I genuinely have never met a nice group of people than the ‘Yanks’ as you are affectionately referred to here down under. One of the loveliest young women on the trip was about 50 who I have ever had the pleasure of meeting was from California and was travelling with an elderly aunt and we would catch up at the end of the day for our gin and tonic. She was just the loveliest girl who unfortunately passed away in August. Broke my heart because life just is not fair. Excuse my ramblings but it is one of those days!!

            • Maree – hope this isn’t out of order in the thread, but happy Margartaville to you down-under. When I traveled there, altho I was a Naturalized American, I am Canadian by birth. Funny, that people tell you when you travel to Europe to say you’re Cannuck, but Aussie is much different. They LOVE the Yanks! They don’t really know where Canada is (jk), but WW II formed a huge bond between the two countries. And, the US isn’t even Commonwealth – go figure. 🙂 Sorry for getting off topic. 🙂

              • Hi SheChump. You are not off topic at all. Australian’s are a very laid back and accepting group of people. We are very easy going and we have a saying here, which is, “she’ll be right mate”. In fact, I think that you will find that Australians are just very ordinary but mostly decent people. Similar to Americans, Canadians, English and any other nationality you wish to add. Decent people are decent people no matter their nationality. Just my thoughts on the subject.

        • Maree, I’d be appalled at who HE is – a derelict piece of shit who thinks that his father being with a third world prostitute mail order bride is even SLIGHTLY acceptable. Projection, much?
          Its the fact that no Aussie woman would want him at this current stage. And yet, your children think that’s acceptable? They are morons, and any decent person would laugh in their face at how fucking pathetic they are.

          He couldn’t respond because he really DOESN’T have anything to respond with. When asked to clarify their lies further – they know damn well they are full of shit – and can’t come up with anything, because there IS nothing.
          But, to narcs, its all about them and everyone orbits around them, or they rage at them. Fuck him. He’s a disgusting piece of shit.
          Us decent people know that you’re a kind hard working and decent woman. Anyone who says otherwise, can go die in a hole.

          He’s fucking lucky that we aren’t closer to you in real life – he’d have hell to pay if he even thought about repeating that sentence, or any other negative bullshit, in our company.

          • Dear Lania, you are a gem and I appreciate your support. I don’t have a lot to say other than, I miss my kids unbelievably but when I get a young person’s perspective like yours, it actually gives me hope. I can be a cock eyed optimist at times but very rarely. I hope that one day I can post on this site that I have sorted everything out with my 2 children and that we are happy once more. I hope so.

            • Of course. I wish they would grow the fuck up, too. 30-somethings with toddlers’ mentality, indeed!
              Thing is though, they are devoid of morals and disgusting human beings – and these types are rarely the ones who have any sort of self-introspection or think that they’re doing anything wrong – and correct their shitty behaviour.

        • Maree, I have a similar situation with my son. I devoted my life to him. Stay at home mom, volunteered in his classrooms, chaperoned school trips, sigh him up for sports, music lessons, etc. he was my life. We were close all his life until X walked out.
          Ex had little to do with him until he left when our son was 16. Ex talked son into living with him and alienated our son from me. Son actually lied in court for his Dad. One lie that hurt was
          the expensive luxury car X bought me for my birthday. Son lied and said he didn’t know it was my gift. I had to buy my own gift which I didn’t want which cost me over $60,000.00.
          It’s been an absolute nightmare.
          He has called when he’s needed something or he and his father aren’t getting along
          and I’ve always been there for him financially and emotionally.
          X will win him over financially or derogatory remarks regarding me, then
          I won’t hear from him for months. He doesn’t return my calls or texts until the next time he needs, me.
          I’ve tried everything to build a relationship with him.
          After reading some of the information on this site I realized I’ve been dancing like a fool for his love and that is no way to have a relationship with anyone. There’s not doubt he knows I’m dancing, he senses my excitement when he calls, and my willingness to please and make him happy. Much like his father. I’m done dancing. I’ve been doing some serious thinking.
          My relationship with my son will be distant if we have one.
          The last incident in my home has opened my eyes to the ugly truth.
          My dancing days are over.
          Training myself now to redirect my attention on myself. So much heartache.
          Sadly it’s becoming clear to me he is following in his father’s footsteps.
          No respect for me, no empathy.
          Hope it helps to know you aren’t alone with ungrateful children.

          • brit, I am really very sorry to read your story. It seems many parents are being treated like us and it is sad. You are correct about the lack of respect and empathy. I do hope that your son like my 2 kids come around eventually. If not, life will still go on as it has been doing.

          • Marie and Brit, I don’t have firsthand experience of what you’re going through with your kids, but it sounds very similar to what we’ve all been through with our spouses… entitlement and selfishness. I loved my husband so much that I couldn’t fathom what he’d done; couldn’t figure out how to help him out of the pit he’d gotten into. One day, must have been when reading this blog, I realized that if I wanted to help him I had to leave him. Of course I wanted to help myself too, but it made it easier for me to move forward knowing that (by not dancing) I was providing him with the best conditions for fixing his f’d up self.

            I imagine it would be the same for our children as well… or a complete stranger for that matter! By allowing the disordered to walk all over us, we are condoning and reinforcing their behavior, and downgrading our worth. If you stop dancing for your kids they will have a better chance of seeing things clearly, and developing some compassion. If they still don’t change, at least you’ll know you didn’t reinforce their abhorrent behavior. I feel so bad for you… I can’t imagine the pain. Two of my children are indifferent, and that’s painful enough. ((hugs))

  • Little Napoleon fell into the non working category but he still found ways to make me feel less than. I’d do dishes multiple times a day, including before I went to bed, but his life schedule was to stay up much, much later, and I’d wake up to four coffee mugs, several plates, pans, and knives and I’d ask him if he’d consider rinsing his cup and using it again but it was as though I were speaking a foreign language to him. I did ALL the laundry, cleaned the bathroom, and the only thing he ever did was vacuum once in a great moon. And then he rubbed it in my face as though I fell down on the job. He also had his hand out constantly for a few bucks for cigarettes or a beer and I would scrape it up — not enough for both of us to go out and enjoy. Yet he always swore he never asked me for anything. The slippery asshole abandoned me when my money ran out, and now he has a newer, younger version to keep him living the same way. Fucking asshole.

  • “Funny thing about cheaters and work ethics — their entitlement often slops over into their working life. No surprise that narcissists tend to make poor employees — they just don’t think the rules apply to them.”

    Completely agree. Looking back on our 10 year marriage, the longest he EVER held a steady job was for 2 years and it was with the company I work for. He was on numerous improvement plans and they gave him so many chances because of me and how hard I worked. Eventually, they fired him and OF COURSE it wasn’t his fault, they were out to get him. And I spackled like a mother fucker. Thank God I chose to stay and suck it up – I’ve now advanced my career there and am going on 8 years. I’m lucky they didn’t take his poor work ethic as a reflection of mine considering I referred him for the job. Since he was fired in 2010, he’s been in school since. AND IS STILL NOT FINISHED. Exactly how many years does it take to become a nurse?

    While he’s been in school, he did get a job waiting tables, which is where he met the cum dumpster. He too would have to ‘work late’ – going from getting home at 9pm on a Wednesday night to almost 2am. He couldn’t ‘leave until the restaurant was clean’ – in other words, until he came in the cum dumpster’s face in the parking lot.

    These entitled assholes, they are all alike.

  • My fucktard didn’t cheat at work, since it’s a family owned business, including me for 8 yrs. Although I worked from home ( how convenient ) but his two sons work there as well. But, being that he’s President of the company which manages properties it gave him all the opportunity in the world to cheat. There were always meetings with associations and he leaves the office whenever he feels like to “check on a property”. Uh huh…now I know just what kind of property he was checking on. Also convenient is the fact that the office is midway between home and Chicago and also Oak Brook. Both places where I later discovered where his dates with hookers took place. I refuse to call them “escorts”….they’re hookers. And he’s a jackass.

  • Mine rarely came home late… was always home on weekends, and if he wasn’t I could go visit him at the office, which I did on occasion. I never suspected a thing! Turns out he was banging the secretary all hours of the day… apparently his father was too (family business). Finding him during the day was like playing a shell game. He could be on a customer call, at the bank, at a late lunch, meeting with reps… never a schedule. Now I can see how crafty and slick he was, but back then I thought he was busting his ass to hold it all together… you know, the man making things happen.

    I’m disappointed in myself for being so naive and trusting… for knowing his family was screwed up, but thinking he was the only one to rise above it. It really makes me ill. BUT… I did raise some pretty good kids, and now they’re learning that infidelity and narcissism are unacceptable and shameful, and will NOT be swept under the rug.

    • CL – you are on a roll yesterday and today – hitting all my chump hot buttons…..no sex and “working late” ……

      Working late is the most evil cheater lie for two reasons. #1- How can a chump fault someone for trying to get ahead? So easy for cheater to get off the hook because they are working late for you silly chump – ergo, you can not complain or you are being ungrateful. #2 – Who could imagine that people both immoral and DUMB enough to not only cheat but to foolishly risk their professional life by having an affair with a co-worker? I have never worked anywhere where that would be tolerated if known. And I know very few people that would squander all their hard work and career accomplishments for a good blow job after work.

      My husband ran the company, ergo I would ask why he had to work late – could he not delegate to others? I got the push back that my cushy life was due to these extended hours -So I bought it and felt sorry for him! (stupid, stupid Tired Chump)

      As for his AP – she was his assistant – 26 to his 53 when it started – which opened him up to all kind of legal harassment suits etc and also provided a reason for them to be in constant contact. i knew she had a “crush” on him, but it never occurred to me that he would reciprocate and jeopardize his entire professional life for a relationship with a class-less slut. I also did not know that I was being compared to a person who dressed to the nines every day in her skin tight dresses and double DD push up bras, and whose job description was to keep Cheater happy, make him look good, navigate office politics and compliment him for his hard work and smarts. I appreciated his hard work and smarts too – but also requested him to help guide our teens/young adults, fix a few things around the house, and generally spent my days in jeans and a sports bra.

      Reading comments today is making me laugh and also cry – what is wrong with these cheaters and how can they be so truly teririble to people who loved and cared for them.

  • My wife worked a government job. No offense to government workers on here, but her office always had workers coming and going as they pleased (and my wife would comment on it negatively forever). Then at some point, she had to start staying later — like all the time.

    I’d just be curious if we could all take a CN poll at some point to see what percentage of our spouses’ AP’s were COWs. It seems to be a fair amount here.

  • My dDay came when he told the OW he wouldn’t leave me for her (prob because I earned more) and she threatened to accuse him of date rape. he decided to tell me bc she scared the crap out of him by threatening to bring in police. She saved her underwear. Match made in heaven.

    He had made a huge deal out of being called into work on a Saturday night. I had been begging to go to the movies that night but suddenly this ‘job’. came up. He worked nights occasionally so it wasn’t a big deal.

    He kept bitching over and over again – dammit, I’m so tired. I can’t believe I have to go to work. I’m starving. I’m tired I don’t want to go. I want to be w you.

    So chumpy me packed him a sandwich and a full ‘Meal’ and a f’g snack and watched him go out the door dressed for work feeling sorry for him.

    In MC it came out that he changed clothing in the car and took her to an expensive restaurant that I always wanted to go to but we could never afford bc he was cheap mostly

    I was livid. I said ‘you mean you let me stand there feeling sorry that you had to go to work while you went out to a late night romantic supper w you???? I even made you a GOd damned sandwich and a full meal.

    His response was ‘I know you made a sandwich. I ate it all in the car on the way there. So what?’

    This is the disordered. All he looked at was the sandwich. Not screwing someone in the parking lot.

    Later the therapist told me after we were done ‘if I were married to him, I would probably strangled him w my bare hands myself ‘

    • So sorry, CDJ. And high five to your therapist!
      I think they LOOOVE the play-acting. What better way for the disordered to get their jollies than putting together an elaborate scene, and then starring in it? They could win a Cheaty – the Academy Award of cheaters everywhere! I bet he got off on your concern, and making sure he had food for his poor little belly.
      One thing I figured out, in my sleuthing about my decades of marriage, for things that did not add up, was this gem- X said remember when we went to that exclusive restaurant in NJ, with my partner and his date? Blank stare from me, because we never did, and we were super struggling then, with 2 very young boys. He had his own business, and it was doing really badly.
      I finally got him to admit that he took his secretary. The one I found out he knocked up, the one he used to bring to our house, and try to make me socialize with! And the kicker- I know, at that very time, that he wasn’t even making enough for me to buy basic food for our kids, it got so bad, I would feed them canned beans, and not eat myself. While he was having Chateau Briand or something, with his married Ho. I hate him sometimes, and thank Goddess, that poor spell ended eventually. But, what a heartless Asshole!

      • FW- so sorry for you too. They are soulless. This woman eventually brought down my x’s business by including his full name and city on her blog and writing that he was a predator and made his living by using women. And that was the most flattering sentence Every time someone searched his name for his business, her blog and experience w him came up. His comment for that was: what do I care? No one reads the Internet. He didn’t get that many clients after that.

  • I’m sure my stbx worked hard but he also played hard too. He was VP of an oil company and made a very good salary although most of it got funnelled back into the company. Turns out he was having a long term affair with a fellow VP. I actually knew her quite well, she had been in my home many times. That was a kick in the teeth. All those years he never came home until well after the kids had gone to bed. One of my daughters reassured me yesterday that she has almost no memory of her father when she thinks of her childhood. And sadly, that is a good thing.

    He had started a new company when the first one tanked, which lost us many millions of dollars. I moved out to our ranch that we had bought and he was supposed to join me in a few months. Five years later I was still out there alone with only a part time hired man to help me calve out over 500 mama cows. I was so stressed and then was very badly injured, breaking my back and legs. Still he never came to help and I continued to work as best I could. Ugh, I’m only five feet tall, 100 pounds and I was so busted up. I was at my breaking point.

    He claims he lost his family because he worked too hard. Ha ha, that’s a good one.

  • Following up on my earlier rant –

    I also read after Dday that lots of affairs start with co-workers because there is built in understanding of each others daily experience – more time spent with these people than families – and that opposite sex colleagues “overshare” personal info, then cross boundaries into emotional relationships by sharing more with co-worker than spouse, and then many of these turn sexual.

    I would add my own personal observation that workplaces today are also full of a large group of young woman who consider themselves “sexually liberated” and also have little regard for marriage. They are comfortable doing anything they want because they have been raised to believer that people just “deserve to be happy,” In truth, a mirror would show them they are in fact, selfish, sleazy, no good homewreckers, looking for a meal ticket in a successful man (since many of their peers have poor careers in this bad economy). Further, they give no thought to how their “happiness” is causing a train wreck for a bunch of other people.

    Like most of us on this board – I can not imagine how anyone could not feel terrible about having an affair with someone who is married who was still living with their spouse and family.

    I AM PROUD TO BE A CHUMP!

    HTC and KTC (that’s Hugs to Chumps and Karma to Cheaters)

    xo, TC

  • I do have a funny story though! He came home very late, as per usual, and I woke up and sleepily watch him undress. I noticed when he took off his suit pants that he wasn’t wearing any underwear. I asked them where they were and he stammered that he’d had an accident.

    LOL. I think I’d rather just admit to the truth, cheating, than lie about crapping myself. God, it feels good to laugh about his idiocy.

    • HAHAHAHA! Mine came home one day and went to the shower right away. I asked him why he was showering and he said, “I’m so embarrassed. My feet stink really, really bad.” Yeah right, asshole!

      • Ha Ha Ha Jenny Unchained. Same thing happened to me at the x’s 25 yr reunion. I woke up when he came home at 5am and he didn’t have any shorts on. He said the same thing – I soiled them. barf. I never suspected a thing. Then, same thing happened with his new squeeze. I’m a woman and count clothes like socks and underwear. Suddenly he was missing 2 pairs of underwear. I said, so you soiled yourself twice? Yup, was his answer. pffft

  • Mine AH is 80% traveling as I already told you he does not know that I know. I used to believe the ” business meeting” late dinner when he is at is home state upnorth. “Do not call me unless it is an emergency” assh$&@ Meanwhile the chump is doing homework with his son, working & ironing his clothes. give him a break!! Work ethics!

  • We are all so much better off without these disordered assholes in our lives…them and their aps…past and future aps…cause there will always be others for them…they must have constant, random, new validation!

    The certainty of knowing they cannot be trusted and never will be trustworthy, never will change, never will feel actual love or compassion is reason enough to feel vindicated in our conviction and secure in our choice to LEAVE THEM BEHIND! …and NEVER look back.

    I agree with whichever one of us said it would be great to get all of us together and have a meal and enjoy the wonderful, understanding company of each other!!! WE ARE MIGHTY!!!! And we are so much better off!!!!!

    ((HUGS)) to ALL OF US!!!!!

  • Yup…. Looking back, you could always tell when her extra hard days of work out of town were the ones she was meeting up with her boy toy. Those were the beat me down over the phone days….. I didnt appreciate what she was doing. I was just a trouble making asshole…. other times she was nice while gone. Cheaters are so easy to read but us chumps dont want to believe the facts being dumped in our laps.

  • Saddam did this the other way around. He kept having to go to work earlier and earlier because traffic or whatever. In reality he was getting up as soon as he was sure I was sound asleep so he could have phone and sexting sessions with his elementary school teacher. He really was going in earlier, that was so he could fall asleep by 6/7pm and stealth around before work. Then he actually got the balls to pack a gym bag and go see her at O dark hundred. When busted he tried to say it’s cos he was going to the gym right after work…funny he never packed a toothbrush or a shaver for the gym prior to that night…

  • My asshat was an extra-special case of this. His multiple howorkers and he engaged in sex while ON the clock. He never came home late. Not once. Massive Mindf*ck. I had no idea. [Talk about quickies …. I can’t even imagine (nor do I want to) how he managed this. Storage rooms, bathrooms, …. barf!]

    However, like so many here, he managed to make me feel shitty for not bringing home enough money when I stayed home with our little ones (as we had agreed to). And, one of my favorites … when everything came out he said he banged the howorkers because he had to work too much and didn’t feel appreciated. It was his revenge on me for making him be “responsible.” He’s fond of the family as a “ball and chain” theory it seems.

    Um … he has had 10 jobs in two decades. He misses work (to stay home and laze around); he refuses overtime; “climbing a ladder” is not remotely in his vocabulary (whether to clean a gutter or get a promotion at work). Responsibility is not his strong suit.

    Since coming to my friggin’ senses, I now make more than him and am quickly working my way up in my profession–while I get my ducks in a row for me and our kids. Because, you know, I kind of like taking care of my kids and being responsible. My girls and I will be set.

  • Mine was always “working late” and “at the gym”—-two great places to hook up with women falling all over his good guy act.

    • The gym, workouts went from an hour gradually to four hours adding additional weight lifting exercises.
      Good guy here too, workouts began to include a coffee afterwards. I asked why, his answer?
      I do what ever I want. I found that out.

  • I’m embarrassed to even tell my story because for a while even on anonymous message boards, I couldn’t bring myself to type the following: my college educated ex kept getting fired from jobs the entire 15 years we were together. We started seeing each other right after college, so early 20s, and in 15 years he probably had about 10 jobs? I feel like I’ve been mentally blocking this part, because when I think about it, I get anxious about why I stayed through all that, even prior to infidelity. I should have known something was wrong with him, but I refused to believe it. Out of those 10 or so jobs, he quit maybe one of them, the rest was all firings. Reasons? From what I’ve been able to get out of him, was all personal? He never admitted to much besides that bosses were “assholes” , people were jealous of him (never gave reasons why, and he’s neither good looking or in position of power), etc. It was never his fault.
    MY POINT is that (and this part hurts too) that on DD he told me that the reason he cheated is because I called him a loser a few times during those years, and yes, I admit, I DID say those things. We frequently fought over finances, his lack of career, his lack of motivation. I knew it wasn’t normal to live wiht such instability, constantly borrowing money from family, I knew this, but when he told me that I degraded him and emasculated him over his professional life, the balmeshifting worked and until this day, I struggle with this. Could I have prevented the cheating if I was more supportive and not called him a loser? Then on some days, another part of me wonders if it’s normal for 45 year old man to have such turbulent work history. He believes it was all bad luck and I made things worse with my nonsupporting attitude.

    • Lara – that, or he’s just an irresponsible douchebag with terrible life skills.

      I think my explanation is simpler. 😉

    • I understand how you feel. Being responsible is important to me. It’s a burden to him and when he pushed that off on me, like a good chump, I “felt sorry for him” when he umpteenth job was stressing him out. I supported him through the job changes.

      When we couldn’t afford a bill because of all of the job changes, I felt horrible asking family members for money (I wouldn’t have minded if our “need” wasn’t preventable … like an earthquake happened or something … but his job-hopping WAS preventable and, therefore, no excuse in my mind.) On the other hand, asshat had no problem at all asking for handouts and would get angry at me for asking why it was so easy for him to do ask.

      The big picture is that they are almost infantile in their maturity level. Of course we thought there had to be a damned good reason for the job problem, because no adult would act that way by choice. Well, that’s what we assumed because we wouldn’t act that way. We have embraced adult life and see the many benefits of being responsible human beings. My asshat (and I’m guessing yours since they are so similar) will never reap the benefits of responsibility because they refuse to grow up and take responsibility for their lives–for their decisions.

      Grown men neglecting their families, their responsibilities, thinking only about what they want “right here and right now,” and throwing temper tantrums when they aren’t coddled. The embarrassment is theirs.

      • FELLOW CHUMP whose ex is a loser here! I was just sitting with my new friend, whom I’ve introduced to CL recently and just walked her through registering on this website. I’m excited she’ll be commenting soon. Her About my loser ex….Hear me out, folks!
        Has he matured since DD hit 3 years ago? You tell me, fellow chumps. He’s been a job hopper for decades, latest one lasted 4 months and he’s currently collecting unemployment checks. Here’s another thing: he’s been ranting about the curse of capitalism and how materialistic the society has become. He’s been forwarding me links to articles, mostly conspiracy theories about how the government is scamming all of us, and how our children are being brainwashed by the present educational system. He’s been ranting in his emails to me about Jews, yes, you’ve read it correctly, Jews, and homosexuals and believes both are responsible for the downfall of society. I’ve forwarded most rants to my therapist who told me to hold on to them and save them, in case I need to have evidence about his mental state. Here’s another thing: I am not sure if he’s fucking with me or actually believes in the crap he sends me.

  • oh yeah, I forgot to mention the part that being a minority, ex thinks the reason he keeps getting fired is that people are racist. As a Caucasian woman, he often told me that I have no idea what it’s like out there in professional environment when it comes to being a minority, one of the reasons I bought into his woe is me attitude to rationalize his “bad luck” with jobs. I think in his case, the race card was his alibi for shitty personality.

    • My cheater was Latin and short and was convinced that tall while guys got all the breaks. He presented himself to me as a person who worked super hard (he likely did and he seemed good at his job, but I think he likely acted like an ass) and wasn’t appropriately appreciated for his wonderfulness.

      I will never know how much of his narc self he let loose of at work. He was very bitter that he retired at a military rank that was lower than most of his peers from their prestigious school.

      After Major Cheaterpants died, I married Colonel Niceguy a successful tall white guy.

      • Oh my God, that was exactly my ex, Hispanic and short, ex military. Big chip on his shoulder and always suspicious of the Caucasian co-workers and bosses.

        • Maj Cheaterpants was just POSITIVE that some day in the heat of an argument, I would make a racist comment to him – it was just a matter of time – to the point he was almost punishing me for what he feared I would do.

          When he got mad, all rules of decency and civility fell away and he fought dirty – he would say anything to hurt, control and manipulate me – ANYTHING. I never lost my shit in arguments, I kept control of myself and never once in 26+ years did I ever say anything racist to him.

          In addition to that I think his worst fears were ever being called a coward or a failure and I never said those things either…which is really ironic because the truths I uncovered after he died revealed that he was a coward and a failure.

  • My STBX STILL says sorry I did not Skype for three months to see our daughter (now seven months old, yeah, it was one of those cheaters-during-pregnancy-ones), because, oh yeah, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO busy WORKING. HAH, he surfs and sits in a hammock, that’s it, and his affair partner (who he wanted to dump when she went back home for some weeks, if I only would come back please please pretty please… I was excellent chumpy cake) manages his business that his parents put money in, because, even though they hate what happened, and they are on my side, they are worried he will end addicted on the streets otherwise. YEah working… was also the excuse during my pregnancy when he could not find time to check on me how I was doing… sometimes not for a week (I was in another country waiting by Skype almost 24/7 highly pregnant, so chumpy). Don’t tell me you dont have time to send a whatsapp while you are taking a shit or something, you are not working on the goddamn toilet are you, oh yeah working your lame cheater ass.

    STBX… (he is supposed to sign papers today) I need to write Chump Lady because I am still so confused and hurt, even if it all is so black I never even got any hopium and I actually wish there was a unicorn in sight, but there is not even a donkey rolling in the mud to hope for in my case.

  • My STBXH had a 4 year affair with a married howorker up north where he used to work until I sent this edited for privacy letter to the board he worked for, they let him go February 28, 2015 after an investigation and found my letter I believe to be truthful. I don’t regret sending it still.

    January 8, 2015

    To: The Board of Directors

    Re: (Narc’s name) – Alcohol and Drug addiction.

    To whom this may concern,

    My name is (Me), I am (Narc’s name) wife, my reason for writing to you today sadly is my concern for my husbands health and welfare. My husband has a serious drug and alcohol addiction problem and I’ve tried to address this issue by myself with him as his wife but he refuses to get help for it.

    He has been engaging in very risky behaviour that not only has jeopardized our marriage but both his and my health. While on a recent trip to Winnipeg with (Narc’s Asst Mng) for the (blank) buying show using company resources, he paid for the services of a prostitute and brought her to his hotel room. This was told to me by (Narc’s Asst Mng) and then (Narc) finally admitted to this to me. I will provide proof of this in this email. There is a high risk of sexually transmitted diseases these days, so this caused me a great deal of pain and fear as his wife. He also put himself in danger.

    Also, over the last couple of years, I’ve had suspicions of something more then just a working relationship was going on between (Narc) and an employee (OW name) who worked with him in the office at the store up until April of this year, 2014. My reasons for this is (Narc’s name) has had her to our home at (our town) two years ago while I was at work. I came home unexpectedly and found them sitting around drinking alcohol in our home. This is when it started, my concerns about their relationship. (Narc’s name) assured me nothing was going on, so I let it go. Then fast forward to this past year (2014) and I noticed a big change in (Narc’s name) behaviour in our marriage when he came home from up north.

    He became secretive with his cell phone (leaving the home to talk on it), when I questioned him about this and asked to see his cell phone one evening he became belligerent with me after a short time of me looking through his phone he grabbed it back hitting me in the face with it, an argument broke out between us and I ended up calling the RCMP for assistance. This happened at the beginning of October, 2014 this year. They arrested (Narc’s name) and took him to (Town name) for assault and kept him over night in jail, he has pending charges and a trial date set for March 11, 2015.

    After this happened, a couple of nights later, (Narc’s name) returned to our home, we talked and tried to figure out where to go from what had happened. That evening when we were both sleeping his cell phone began to ring at 11:30 PM and kept ringing till 1:30 AM (It was on a charger in another room). I finally got up and went to answer it, I missed the call and called the number back, the number was the (Name) Inn and Suites in (Town name), I didn’t know who to ask for so I hung up, I then brought his phone to our bedroom and it rang again right away from the same number. I put the phone on speaker and woke (Narc’s name) up to answer, it was (OW’s name) calling him. She said she wanted him to come to the hotel to see her. It is my understanding that she does not work at the store anymore since April 2014, I concluded from this event that this was more then just a working relationship at that time.

    (I have proof of these calls on his cell phone bill).
    After this event with (OW’s name), I decided to call (Phone Carrier name) and set up online viewing of our cell phone bills. The archives go as far back as of June, 2013. I reviewed the bills and there are multiple calls over days and months from (Narc’s name) personal cell phone to (OW’s name)home #(OW’s phone #) right up until the evening mentioned above (These are outgoing calls from (Narc’s name) to her). There are also calls on the cell bill to another hotel (The Confederation Inn) in Saskatoon that I discovered that are from January 2014. The calls started on a Saturday evening at 10PM from (Narc’s name) to (OW’s name) who was staying there (Narc was at (up north name) at the time). The duration of the calls are 56 mins, 18 mins, 19 mins late into the evening over a span of 3 days.

    This is more evidence in my opinion of something more then just a working relationship as she was still employed at the store. When I confronted Narc about the calls, he said he can’t remember what they were about.

    There is a lot more things going on but I believe I’ve divulged enough already for you to clearly see that Narc has some serious problems that I know are contributed to his drug and alcohol use. He has been jeopardizing himself, his family and place of work with these behaviours. I care about him and I love him and I just want him to get the help he needs. I too am a recovering alcoholic, I’ve been to treatment lately myself because my drinking escalated learning of these things that Narc was doing. I went to (Treatment Centre) by (town name), I’ve talked to the owner, (Her name) and she said she could intake Narc on January 12, 2015 for the 5 week program. It’s an amazing treatment centre and after being there myself, I can tell you they work miracles. I hope you can help me get the help for Narc because he is a good man deep down that I’m sure you want back from his addictions along with our family.

    Here is the website for the treatment centre:

    Thank you for your time and for caring about my husband and father of our children, if you have any questions for me, please give me a call.

    Sincerely,

    Me

      • I’m doing good, over a year sober now, in divorce proceedings, waiting for our house to sell. I left him 3 months ago, got an apartment in the city, work full time for the same company for 11 years that have been awesome to me through all of this. I can’t wait for this to all be behind me, I put up with many years of abuse from him, he uses every person he’s ever known, it’s been a nightmare. He tick every box of a NDP extreme. He never got help. I feel hatred towards him today, hope someday I get to Meh, I suppose after the divorce because I have to drag him to court for everything in that matter. Ugh

    • Horray Kate! I LOVE IT! I would like to give you my stbx’s employer name and address and you could write them practically the same letter – except you could include that my asshole flies to Denver to buy weed and transports it down to Las Vegas. I know this because he tells me and his 20-year old son about it. Yep – dad of the year!
      The only bummer is – my loser dickwad cheating sob is union. They tend to give employees 18 thousand chances before actually firing them.
      Good for you Kate!

  • Anyone covered police cheaters yet? I’d like to submit that profession as surely in the top 3 for infidelity. Lots of new recruits fawning and flattering their way through the shift and plenty of male officer egos to fall for it. Makes me so angry when I consider how hard my female colleagues and I work just getting on with the job.

    My XH had it so easy, not only was a chumptastic was 100% love and trust, I was guaranteed out of the house until gone 11pm. Plenty of time to be over the side (having an affair).

    Grrrr, what a dick! How on earth did I manage it!

          • I thought doctors and bond traders and lawyers and judges and medics and nurses and and and . . .I think they are #1 in all their fields. Cheaters cheat no matter where they work. I think the new painter I just hired once to have one. lol

          • Police are the number 1 profession for domestic abusers so I wouldn’t be surprised if they also rate number 1 for cheating.

  • My STBX started the working late, going to work early, working extra days, having to go in on days off for “emergency’s” or “meeting’s”. Oh, and all of his extra texting was because of problems at work. I suspected something was up because he constantly complains about his job and all of a sudden he couldn’t even take a weekend trip with the kids and I because of the “job”. Plus he has had affairs in the past and he always screws co workers, and unfortunately I know the signs that he is screwing around. He never has trouble finding an AP from work, he is the boss, 95% of his employees are female, and they all adore him. Doesn’t matter that he was married or if they are married (they just have to be younger, he likes them much younger than me) and of course he has been deeply in love with all of them. Hope he really likes the latest whore, because he is stuck with her (until he cheats on her) because I am not taking him back this time.

  • Off topic: Maybe I spend too much time here. Because I just read an article about a preacher’s pregnant wife dying after a mysterious home invasion in which she was shot in the head, and in my own head he’s already guilty..

    The preacher’s comment: “It’s impossible to communicate all the emotions my heart has been forced to process. … I have not only lost my ministry partner and support but also my very best friend.”

    I don’t know, but after all the ‘best friend’ comments, my cheat-dar is beeping like mad.

    Doesn’t help that her husband found her, after returning home from the gym, and there are no suspects.

    Quote from the wife: “You can lead your wife best, by just being a really, really good Godly example to her.”

    Bleahh. I know, I could be totally wrong, but the old intuition says He did it, he did it, he did it….

    • Pear, my STBX told me often he could get rid of me with no evidence. He is a cop and knows alot about disposing of things. I have told family and friends, If I turn up missing, please make sure it is investigated and check the wood chipper.

      • I hope he’s not Drew Peterson. He was a cop, too. That’s what he said to at least one of his late wives. And he meant it.

        Whoops, never mind, he’s in prison. But please be careful!

    • I became suspicious when the article I read referenced the home invasion as “alleged.” I watch Investigation: Discovery so color me suspicious. It sounds eerily similar to the case of the security head for Joyce Meyers ministry who killed his wife and two young sons because he was having an affair with her best friend from high school.

    • Beep,beep,beep,beep,beep,beep,beep………..
      I read the article. And my beeper went off. I then watched a video of the two of them recently posted about how to overcome difficulties in relationship. To proactively engage with your partner even if it seems forced, as over time it will benefit both parties. The old fake it till you make it concept repackaged. Every photo of the wife posted she has this brilliant smile. In the video it is not seen once. This is supposed to be a video of him and her, the love of each other’s life, sharing their other great love. Ministry. Yes I may be skeptical. But 2+2 is not making 4.

        • My mind went there too, after I read they had video of him at the gym when the killing occurred I still wonder if he hired someone. I think we might be a tad paranoid…

  • This struck a chord today.

    I am the ultimate chump, my ex-wife was a stay at home mom for 11 years while our four kids were younger, but I could never figure out why I was doing so much work around the house and with the kids. I also worked 2 or 3 jobs to support us, imagine living comfortably today on one income. Not possible, so I put my nose to the grindstone.

    Pre-school, Cub Scouts, Volleyball, softball, football, school conferences, graduations, Christmas, birthdays, holidays, spring breaks…I was always there. The house was always a wreck and I didn’t mind, I never complained. I thought we were building something together. In retrospect, the ex-wife was never here to begin with. She was using me as an early retirement and had just checked out of contributing financially to the household. She never worked and couldn’t even hold down a part-time job to help, there was always some excuse.

    My biggest concern now is my hope that my kids don’t develop the same work ethic as their mother.

  • Snake was very successful in his career…. I can’t complain about the finances or his job stability. I was the one with the unsteady career because of the depression, anxiety, sleeplessness brought on by the gaslighting and mindfucking.

    But I was trusting and he had ample opportunity to cheat. How much he took advantage, I’ll never know. But I do know there was minimal contact when he traveled for business without me. He really pulled the “working so hard” card when he was traveling. We relocated a few years back, and were apart for a couple of months while I wrapped things up at our hold house and got ready to move. He went absolutely apeshit when I suggested he might try to return a text within 24 hours. He was just too fucking busy to spend 30 seconds on a text. Nope, work work work, I had no idea of the pressure he was under, I was selfish and needy and jealous, all for thinking I should have the common courtesy of a reply within a day or so.

    I can’t believe I didn’t call off MY relocating right then and there. I should have stayed, I had a pretty decent job at the time, and I probably would have felt a lot better had I stayed behind, where I had friends, family and history, instead of packing it all up to be isolated in a new city halfway across the country.

    But what’s past is past. At least after the mindfucks and emotional abuse ramped up after the move, at least after a few years of eggshells and breakdowns, at least I get a share of the financial benefits of the move. No amount of money was worth the soul-sucking experience, but at least there’s something.

  • My Cheater X was the IT director of his company. I know that IT people work odd hours, and he has always had an issue with delegation. Also, he’s a clean freak, so he feels compelled to empty the waste paper baskets in his office every night, and since he once worked as a janitor, he felt compelled to wipe down the floors in the IT office. The clean stuff is probably pathological. His mother said that he had this as a toddler.

    Anyway, he was always busy. OW was one of his staffers. No one figured out how he had time for the affair, but the first lesson I learned was that cheaters will always find the time to cheat.

    The second lesson was never to try to untangle the skein of fuckedupness. While that is sometimes fun to do, it’s never profitable. Just know they’re fucked up and that if you lose a cheater, you’ll gain a life. 🙂

  • Mine had the perfect job to cheat. He works for his self as a Christian alcohol and drug counselor and runs several sober living homes so he got lots of phone calls, text messages and would have to leave anytime there was an issue at one of the houses. So I never had any idea he was texting another woman and slipping off to see her. I thought he was a great man doing Gods work. He was always preaching to the guys to live right and do right and not chase after whores!!! It just devastated me to find out he was cheating and being such a hypocrite and going against everything I thought he stood for it was almost unbelievable! It shocked me so bad I was in some kind of denial the first few months.

    • somuchhurt…My little 20 year old niece was in a drug and alcohol sober home and got knocked up by the 62 year old ‘director’. Isn’t that a nice story? He hurried up and married her. Eeewww. I can barely stand to look at him. He should be arrested.

  • Very similar story…my STBX is a contractor – cheating with the wife of a client he was doing a 250k remodel for. I’m sure he’s had many affairs over the years now that I think about it. Total access to their homes, he could observe the marriage dynamic, he knew if they were fighting or not getting along, and Lord the kibble! Every day someone from one of the jobs was telling him what a great job he was doing, and how their husband couldn’t do anything like that. Ugh.

    • MIne was a contractor too, that’s how he met OW and the prior OWs and OMs too. That’s how he met me 18 years ago. He specializes in divorced older women, and single old gay men. In 18 years I don’t think he did a house remodeling job for a single hetero man, come to think of it, except some friends of ours. They didn’t adore him in his adorable tool belt enough, I guess.

      He used to brag about how people trusted him enough to give them keys to their homes. Narc much? Ex and ugly ass OW were having daily hours long fuckfests in her rental property that he was remodeling, while daily telling me he was “working late,” yup even on Saturdays and Sundays. Meanwhile living with me in our house with me paying 100% for the mortgage and the food and his cell phone that he used to sext with her. But it was All My Fault. And hers, of course (“she was all over me like a train wreck!” – charming).

  • mine took a lot of work trips overseas and interstate, but i’ve got no evidence there was any cheating going on at those times. her “escape” was her second career – sport. plenty of dodgy stuff going on there.

  • Mine cheated with his Ho-worker. Yawn. He cheated with a lot of his ho-workers over the years when he was married to various wives. They were all so dang special.

  • The cheater work ethic, I had a giggle to myself when I read the title of this thread. What work ethic!
    In court earlier this year my ex husband in an attempt to big note himself listed the jobs he had held while in our 20 yr relationship A-Q yep and they were just the ones that lasted more than 6 months. He always had to work late, put in extra time and effort to balance out the inability of his poorly qualified coworkers. If you didn’t know my ex and was listening to him speak about his work, you would seriously think he was singlehandedly preventing the company from folding. I was repeatedly blindsided when contracts were not renewed or he was terminated without warning, yet would never file for unfair dismissal. Always stating that the company was awful and that he was better of out of there as they didn’t respect or appreciate him. His favourite claim, “I don’t know why this has happened, I met their goals and now they have just gone and moved the posts making it impossible for me”.

    Ex currently has two jobs earns very little money, has what seems like every other day off and still manages to convince people that he is genuine. Already he and the new fiancé are in debt to his mother for the new car. Which they will use to drive to their family holiday in January.

    I praise God that I am no longer having to think of ways to counteract his madness. I may be broke, but I have a peace surpasses all understanding.

  • My now-ex and his affair partner worked together. They often went off on projects to Baltimore. I had these fantasies of suing their company for loss of consortium. I dreaded though asking about all this work in Baltimore and hearing them say, “What project in Baltimore?”

  • When I was devouring every post by Chump Lady to help pull me out of the abyss, this is one I must have missed. Spot on, CL!!

    My Xh was always a workaholic and very proud of that title. His job always seemed to be put first. But who was I to complain since “he was working his ass off” for our family? In hindsight, I really don’t think he had an affair during those early years, but now I wonder if only because he worked with people that had convictions and morals.

    Fast forward to 3 years before DDay. Xh is still a workaholic. BUT he has acquired a new job. His dream job. In his new job he: is a supervisor, supervises mainly women employees, is required to travel weekly, and stays in different hotels four nights a week. But who am I to complain since it is his “dream” job and he is making more money for our family?

    BUT, he was in cheater paradise. He would leave on Monday and not have to be accountable to me until Friday. Monday night through Thursday night could be a fuck-fest or phone sex-fest with the married howorker and with no pesky wife around.

    I thought he was in love with his “dream” job. It turns out he was in love with the howorker.

    Fuck them!!!

  • My ex treated his employment like he treated our marriage. He’d stick with what he had, even if he hated it, as it was better than not having anything at all. And yet, he’d never take any steps to make anything better. I would encourage him to find something he liked better, retrain, etc, and he’d make half-hearted attempts but never follow through. His only advancement came through lucky opportunities he could take advantage of. Then it turned out he’d done the same with our marriage. He had been sticking it out as making it better was too much work, and he was too selfish to leave it honestly. When OW opportunity fell into his lap, oops, his dick fell into her vagina.

    • Whoops, posted too soon!

      As for the topic at hand, yep, it’s astounding the work hours my ex put in that I chumpily believed. He pursued his hobby in his workplace after hours “because it was quiet there and he could get more done than at home.” I went through whole days of him leaving early and arriving home after my bedtime, all the while being the supportive spouse and encouraging him to pursue his dreams, no matter how hard it was on me to be alone all the time. Blech. Turns out his dreams were to leave his work early and go live at the OW’s house, pursue his hobby there with frequent interruptions for ‘inspiration,’ and come home to his wife, toddler and newborn as little as possible.

  • I was such a SuperChump, I NEVER suspected that he was a long term cheater – NEVER…would have sworn on our children lives he didn’t cheat..but he was a Work Cheater Extroidinaire !!

    Now that I know the clues, I realize that it was likely going all all along…ohh can’t type more, my new, good loving husband is home

    • “ohh can’t type more, my new, good loving husband is home”

      unicornomore I’m so happy for you! I wish there was a chump dating site so I could find what you have one day. I don’t trust the other ones after what I’ve been through, I’m sure I’m not alone in that feeling. 🙁

      • I got him tucked in…he goes to be early …long icky commute. The irony in trusting him is that he is a Counter Intelligence Special Agent – taught by the best to lie professionally…seemingly perfect cover for a cheater but Major Semper Fidelis whose military specialty required honesty and integrity – HE was the cheater.

        The day this past year when I learned that deadhusband was a serial cheater (tipped off by his mentor who thought I knew) I called Colonel Niceguy and he said “I have a 51 yr history of monogamy”…he couldn’t undo the cheaters cheating, he could only be himself which is good enough for me.

        I think I trust myself more now, I would know what to look for, I was SO naive before, painfully so.

        Back to the original topic…GOD ONLY KNOWS the number of times I was thumped with the “work” excuse…jillions maybe…certainly on business trips. He used to have meltdowns before the USMC Ball most years, now I wonder which OW he was trying to keep me from.

        When my kids were 1,6 & 8…he was assigned a task that took him to Boston Mon-Fri…I stayed back in DC…he did great with it and hardly complained. He worked with a gal named Dee, a single woman who seemed to like him a lot. At an event where DH was presenting, she sat up front and leaned forward like a lovesick puppy. She flew to CA for his retirement ceremony and wrote him a LONG card that later disappeared. I confronted him about her sending him an email asking him to have dinner on a trip but he changed the subject to other OW (who he claimed he never had sex with but I later learned that he DID) which means that he stored them in the same mental compartment thus she was one of the OWs. She had the decency to not come to his funeral.

        I NEVER suspected and now I want to smack myself…there were enough red flags to string along a nepalese basecamp. But like someone said above, Im glad I was the thumped and not the cheater, I was true to my word and vow and I was kind, devoted and decent to him. He can look God in the face and explain himself.

  • I really don’t think diablo cheated at work or with a co worker. his jobs are labor intensive or factory work. his cheating happened while he was out drinking with cousins, friends late at night.

    but he could never hold a job. he had 5 jobs in 14 years. at first it was due to a better paying job that I helped him get. from bartender when I first met him, to groundskeeper, to milk transport tank cleaner, to laborer at the dairy plant where they make milk, he got fired from that job for sleeping on the floor in the storage closet during work hours. (I was so embarrassed) then finally the feed lot (i less pay, more hours, harder psychical work but he got it on his own because i refused to help him again) where he finally got promoted to mechanic right after our divorce went thru. which is what he was supposedly working so hard for, and then he promptly quit to move out of town with hood rat 3 months later. now he is working side jobs and under the table so as not to get garnished for child support I suppose.

    I also remember whenever we had a fight about his behavior or something stupid he did, he would get all self righteous and say “BUT I WORK!!” or “I am a good man because I work”… I was so tired of hearing that. I would tell him everyone works. its not that big of a deal for a grown ass man and head of household works. I still don’t understand how that was even a possible answer but seeing how he is acting now, I guess I was lucky that he went out of his normal and worked. *shrugs* fucking crazy asses.

  • This has been an excellent thread. I was fascinated early on in my young, uneducated (street-smart) sense that the guys I was working for, really weren’t working all that hard. Sorry, most of you sales working guys – No offense. So, I decided to become ‘one of the guys’. I was so determined I could be better after watching how much time they all took off for lunch and dilly dallied after hours. This was an elite export lumber trading firm in a full bull-market mode that I bullied my way into – thanks to experience. I wanted to be one of the guys and a TRADER, like them.

    OK – 7 guys.

    1) One guy got to work and talked sports all day, going from desk to desk, cracking jokes. They hired him because he was a Jock. Oh, and he spoke Farsi – so he had that middle eastern advantage.

    2) Guy sat on his chair chewing his nails, afraid to make a phone call and had a small-guy comlex, but then, he WAS selling to Guam, after all. They always had typhoons so he had easy, regular business.

    (again, we were all on totally different time zones dealing with these markets)

    3) Came in so drunk everyday that it took him all day to open his eyes. Yep, he was working hard, all right – all night long. Southern dude – very nice….but I think he was with women.

    4) A hermit. Wouldn’t talk to anybody but he made money. A great guy I travelled to lumber mills with and he taught me everything I knew about the business. He and his wife and my and X became great friends.

    5) The ‘boss’, who liked to throw chairs around when there was a claim. We all got out of his way when he was mad. Yeah, great boss all right. And, he ALWAYS had claims.

    6) The Mexican guy, who always had credit problems with his market. I think he finally freaked out and left one day.

    7) The ‘Manager’ of this group. Nice guy but he changed the desks all around one day when I walked in, and I had trading things going on with people sitting next to me. So, I just knocked everything off my desk one morning and sat there.

    7) Me? I got the huge male-dominated Australian market. Untouched by this elite company and where I had my experience. They gave me a phone and a desk and a credit line and a little money to start out. Well, I had to be in the office by 6am everyday – but my Aussie mkt didn’t open until, well 3pm, just when everybody was leaving work. So, I used those hours carefully and developed more US contacts for supply. Went home, and started calling customers until 12am. Went to bed, and did it all over again.
    And, hell – did the orders start coming in. Nobody else wanted to work those hours, I guess.
    And, hey – look at my biceps folks! Within 6 months I loaded an entire vessel with 1mm board feet of lumber, exported. I finally got all their respect and raised the guy’s bars. (ha, ha sure)

    I traveled a lot during that time, and kept every relationship extremely professional. It was a small world and I got to know people’s wives. I never once thought about cheating – furthest thing from my mind. I just wanted to work.

    My point being – they put me up in the most beautiful hotels I’ve ever stayed in. I can see how people can get carried away. Yes, a couple guys (from England) came onto but never one of my customers. Besides, I never ever left my hotel room after dark.

    fwiw

    • “Get carried away”? What a crock. Its shitty character, and ONLY shitty character, which fuels cheating. Not ‘fancy hotels’ which cause cheating.
      Thats just one step away from blameshifting chumps for causing their partner to cheat, and I’m not buying it for a microsecond.

      • You’re correct Lania. After all, when I brought the X to my fancy hotel room at the top of a Sydney hotel room, whom I hadn’t seen for 3 wks, we didn’t even have sex. And, I’m sure a cheap hotel room with his slut would have been just fine.

          • I guess I wanted him to ‘carry me away’ after being so horny missing him. Oh, he was horny alright – for himself. Damn, sort of wish I had of hired just a masseuse to come to my room – just for a neck rub after working hard 3 wks traveling the entire country. Nothing else, but I know the company would have paid for it.

            gee – wonder what he was doing while I was gone during those trips.

  • It’s always a co-worker! Why don’t cheaters meet people doing something cool, like spelunking? Because someone who could self assess and say hey, my life is lacking something (like spelunking) don’t turn to other people for happiness. I think there needs to be a pre cheater lady somewhere who tells these poor, sad cheaters to take back their lives….without collateral damage.

  • These cheaters erect whole cities of lies, makes me think of those cities they say the Chinese built which are all facades and empty roads, no one actually lives there, no one actually works there.

    We think the cities are real, the homes filled with families, cars on the roads, buildings with people working and living their lives. We believe wholeheartedly that our spouse is driving to work, traveling those roads, going into those buildings, doing their jobs, coming home at night. Day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year (and for some of us decade after decade), right?

    Wrong. It’s all a facade, an elaborately erected lie. When it crumbles and implodes under its own weight, the chumps are left covered in the dust, gasping for air, looking around in bewilderment, trying to figure out where the buildings were, where the other people are, how could it really have been uninhabited? Trying in vain to discern what happened and why, and never ever getting the answer.

    And the reason for these elaborate constructs our cheaters built, brick by brick, building by building and mile by painful mile? Makes about as much sense to me as the Chinese building those vast empty cities.

    • Kelly,

      What you said is tragically true…I had a fake facade of a marriage and family for decades…and he worked at it, devoted time and effort to his deceptions…how tragic.

      I was planning my wedding to Col Niceguy when I learned of the serial cheating…I really seriously didn’t think there was any possibility of learning anything more damning than I already knew – so much so that I got a memorial tattoo for deadH (I would now like to cut that piece of skin off without anesthesia).

      My newest revelations that he had cheated long term have shaken me to my foundations.

      And that asshole had such an amazing capacity to disassociate things he had done (serious pathological dissociative disorder) and purge reality that he was uncomfortable with, I would bet money that when he died, he had literally forgotten (purged) this from his conscious mind. Hmmm…God likely remembered.

      • Sorry for what you have suffered, unicorn. The revelations over time are a source of ongoing pain. It is hard to explain to someone who has not been through it.

        And yes, dissociate is the perfect word. My ex appeared to do that immediately, instantaneously on D-Day, dissociating from me and our three children. Even among cheating sociopaths he was astonishing in his ability to discard.

        Well whatever it is or was, for your ex it is between him and God. For my ex it is between him and crazy-eyed Miss Piggy, one of his decades-long group sex partners (who he ended up marrying this past summer). She thinks she won the prize. Hope she has a pre-nup.

        As Sponge Bob says, “good luck with that.”

  • I told my cheater that if he spent a fraction of the time he spent talking or fucking the APs, even 10% of the time, on actual work, he could have been the genius who invented Facebook or Google or some other great technology company. He could have been the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. But he spent years and years fucking/fooling around. He can’t even brag that he’s a great father. Enough said.

  • Thanks to all Chumps who shared that they traveled for work but did not end up fornicating with anyone! It can be done. My Cheater has a global job – DDay involved learning about him and his report on the other side of the globe. While playing chief investigator, I was devastated to discover he either had or tried to set up “dates” with girls in every port. He won’t admit a thing. Post DDay when a condom came out in the wash after a trip to the other side of the world where HoWorker is, and I questioned him about it, he had the audacity to tell me, “You are making it difficult to do my job.” Are you freaking kidding me?! Crazy shit.

  • PS During investigation, I also learned he had stayed on the top floor penthouse suite in a hotel he does use for business when working with HoWorker’s group. The day I unleashed the SWAT team after a year of gathering evidence, I decided to bring up that piece of data. “Oh… that. The hotel was full and it was an upgrade.” Really??!!! I asked why then had he not shared with me he got this awesome upgrade… “Well, I know you can be jealous of my business travel.” Do Cheaters truly believe we are going to eat that shit sandwich?

  • The more I read the less surprised I feel. It ‘s look like all this cheaters came from the same ADN ! Europe, USA, it does not matter. I am
    hook up in this topic. No wonder old ladies hate men after this experience if I leave my cheater I will never marry one. 99.9 % chance of getting another a:&:&:le ! too sad. My question is why do they marry?

  • To me, this is a biggie.

    The cheater is stealing from the family and the cheater’s actions are destructive of a healthy family.

    When things are going well, one might not notice the destruction: the house is clean, the kids are clothed, homework is done, the money is rolling in, debt is at bay.

    But if things are not going well, the destruction becomes more obvious, more blatant. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist when things are going well, however.

    When things are not going well: bills unpaid, debt expenses accumulating, house in need of repairs, garage needs cleaned, weeds need pulled, kids need help with homework – as such tasks pile up and a hole is dug, having one person lying about working but really out fucking other people is downright criminal.

    Yet this is what so many cheaters do – they steal money and time from the family, digging the hole deeper and deeper, putting more pressure and more worry on the chump. All the while the chump thinks his or her partner is investing in the family, trying to improve shared conditions.

    But no, they are getting their jollies met, selfishly, while actively damaging and hurting their spouse and children.

    Infidelity is not a victim-less crime.

    When the going gets tough, the tough get going – onto a new life without the cheater. Who wants to live with a lying, stealing, abusing, child neglecting criminal?

  • Buddy, you described my house. It is in need of repair, weeds need pulling, looks like a foreclosure property! Once I learned about the infidelity, I could not make myself take care of it like I once did. Was doing it alone anyhow… while Cheater was so busy “working”. It’s going to be a struggle trying to get it ready to sell now! Feel like listing it “as is” – don’t really care about the money anymore.

  • Chumps, when you see the pictures or have the memories and cry about what is lost, remember you were the architect of that beautiful life. These sell centered morons couldn’t create what you worked so hard to create. They, being the idiots they are, threw it away. Can they even realize what they threw away? Probably not.

    They are in the eternal search for a lay and kibbles.

    YOU created the joy. Remember that. Two cheaters can,t create joy cuz they are too selfish..

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