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Situational Truth

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liesfabricationsStephen Colbert coined the awesome word “truthiness” — when referring to politicians who spin their own versions of reality. They seem so sure of themselves, who cares if it’s not the truth? It’s truthy!

Similarly, the food writer Michael Pollan in his book “In Defense of Food” distinguishes between actual food (things “your great-grandmother would recognize as food”) and “food-like substances” such as Hot Pockets, go-gurts, and most public school cafeteria lunches. It’s sort of like food. Heck, it might contain actual bits of real food — but it’s not truly food. Pollan fears we’re losing our ability to distinguish and prefer the fake over the authentic.

I think a lot of cheaters exist in this alternate universe of truthiness and food-like substances. They’re sort of real, but they aren’t really. They look good, but they taste like sawdust. They say the right things — and gosh, they seem totally convincing — but they don’t really mean a word of it. Or they meant it when they said it, but then they walked outside and got distracted by a butterfly and forgot whatever it was they were convinced of a moment ago.

I call this phenomenon “situational truth.”

From a recent letter:

I thought he meant it when he said he wanted to grow old with me. Well even when all this happened, he said he DID mean it at the time. He just knew that might change.

So did he change his mind and forget to tell her? Did he say it because it sounded noble and romantic? Did he have his fingers crossed behind his back? Or was he simply keeping his options open, and shame on her for taking him at his word?

We’ll never know. We’re chumps. Our minds don’t work this way.

I think we all understand what it is to change your mind. To regretfully renege on a former commitment — “I’m sorry, I know I agreed to go dwarf bowling on Thursday night but I forgot I have a PTA meeting.” Situational truth isn’t changing your mind — it’s changing your truth. Instead of reality being a constant, for the “truthy”, the truth is fluid. It can adapt to your ever-changing whims and desires.

Let’s put it in elementary school terms. Suzy has cookies in her lunch. I tell Suzy “You are my BEST friend forever! And you’re invited to my birthday party!” Suzy, moved by this flattery offers me some of her cookies. I eat the cookies. But, alas, I want more cookies. I see Robert. I say “Robert, you are my BEST friend forever! And you’re invited to my birthday party!” Robert gives me his cookies.

Suzy WHO?

Look Suzy was all very fine and great so long as she had cookies. And she might have cookies again, and when that happens, I’m sure Suzy and I will patch things up. Did I believe what I said when I told Suzy she was my best friend? Well, sort of. My vision of a best friend is someone who not only has cookies in their lunch, they give me cookies. So yes, Suzy was absolutely my best friend in that moment. But then she just wasn’t that useful to me after I ate the cookies. I could wait around until tomorrow, when chances are Suzy’s mom might pack more cookies in her lunch — but that proposition is iffy. Right now Robert has cookies! — so best friend allegiances must shift.

We chumps get so hung up on veracity. To us, when you tell someone they are your best friend, you mean it. It takes a lot more than fresh cookies to rock our commitment. We internalize the things we say. We hold Suzy in our hearts. If anyone asks, Suzy is our best friend. We actually invite Suzy to our birthday parties. She is so much more than her cookies.

For the truthy, all truth is situational truth. It’s not a constellation based on the North Star, where the moral compass turns to an affixed point. No, instead the truth is an Australian shepherd puppy. You have a treat for me?! Awesome! Oh, hang on — SQUIRREL! Whoa… OMG! squeaky toy!!! Where were we?

Okay, perhaps that’s not the best analogy because Australian shepherd puppies are not malevolent, they’re just dim-witted. The best practitioners of situational truth are the personality disordered — they manipulate as easily as they breathe. They don’t agree with your version of reality because it’s yours, and withholding consensus on reality fucks with your head. Bonus!

So if you find yourself in the company of one of these wingnuts? Hold on to your cookies, chumps. And don’t invite them to your birthday party.

This column ran previously. Feel free to comment! 

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Spit my coffee! Hahaha hahahahaha! My rescued hunting dog puppies have more integrity than the ex. They rid the yard of interlopers and intruders. They are goofy, stumbly and absolutely entertaining. I love them. Too bad they don’t hunt cheaters! Truthiness! Perfect!

    • So true, KarMarie. My schnauzer/shepherd rescue who is being treated for aggression (he bit a friend) and general bad behavior has more integrity than my X (and is more loyal and more trainable).

      • My schnauzer/beagle rescue is being trained as my service dog. He came from a dicey environment (he saw domestic abuse from the man in the previous family towards the wife and children, and he had been tormented) – so he has some triggers we’re working on with a wonderful trainer. Despite his sad beginnings, he’s pretty even-tempered, though very protective of me – good dog! And he DEFINITELY has more of moral compass than my ex (who doesn’t have one at al, and never willl). I still love that video CL posted a few months ago about adopting a rescue, I hope it’s okay to share it again:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gef9jsrtQA

        I still crack up when I see it.

  • “I’m sorry it was all a big mistake, no, she was a mistake, I wish it never happened, but not enough to do anything to put it right. it was all her, she did this, except for the part you did, you made weak enough to allow her to do this to me.” “I don’t want money from you… But you made me homeless by kicking me out, so therefore you must home me as I will look after the kids sometimes. Except I can’t because I have no home, but that’s you’re fault, so home me, so that I can take the kids from you.”

      • Nomorebs. You know why? Because they have a basic level of consciousness (like domesticated animals) they follow a basic set of rules and it’s all really predictable. All I can say on that is I’m so glad I found this site, it helps me see my situation is not special, I’m sure this has saved me YEARS of my life to just deal with this idiot swiftly.

    • My used to say he was homeless too after I kicked him out. Told all his friends and family I kicked him and his invalid father out for no reason. Boo fucking hoo. You’d figure he could afford a really nice deposit on an apartment when you consider the amount of cash he sucked out of our bank account. He decided buying an engagement ring for her was a more logical choice. SMH.

      • The parasitic ExBF ended up in the local homeless shelter after I threw his ass out. His family tried to shame me about it but did they step up and do anything? NO because they were sick of a lifetime of his antics.

        The waste of male DNA had thousands of dollars worth of clothes, shoes and designer luggage that his brother put in a storage unit with 3 month’s rent paid in advance. ExBF was unable to pay the monthly rent thereafter and wah wah…..everything was sold for pennies on the dollar at auction.

        Karma, anyone?

        An anagram of his name actually has the word karma in it! hehehehehe

      • That’s ok, my ex used the $$ he got out of my profit sharing plan in the divorce for his AP’s engagement ring. Fitting really since I financed everything all along as he was a classic underachiever. Good riddance.

      • If he used the money to get an apartment instead, he wouldn’t be able to make other people feel sorry for him. Less kibbles.

  • This subject is what I chatted about on a forum about breakups. The person was devastated that “he had been living a lie” all along; his girlfriend had wanted to commit to him, had promised so many things… I explained to him that she was thinking in a very simple manner, while he was torturing his soul to find a complex rationale.
    She was probably seeing herself as not very attractive when she was in her early teens, and suddenly was faced with the reality of her power over the male population. She was thrilled about this new situation, and while she probably meant it when she was with him, she completely changed her mind when a new exciting opportunity arrived. The comparison with the Australian Shepherd puppy is proper. The fact that the puppy is now enjoying that squeaky bone, does not mean that he did not enjoy the blue ball for real a minute ago. The puppy is not lying, its attention is directed to new exciting things all the time.Well his girlfriend was the same way. And her low self-esteem at the core, makes her unable to believe that she actually hurt people, and even if she sees it, it “cannot be serious”.
    This guy’s girlfriend had been a tomboy during her early teen years. Exactly what I had thought.

    • Lying and changing one’s mind is not the same thing. If liars have to be avoided, it is better also to avoid people who are mentally unstable. My current sort-of-boyfriend goes from totally excited, sending 30 messages the same day, to totally lacking interest, and I don’t even need to be there. It’s all happening in his mind. To say the truth, he doesn’t really care to know me at all. I made a comics, and he is not even curious to read it. But he repeats that he wants a woman to live with him. That is no not sexy.

      • So why are you involved with a man who clearly makes you unhappy?

        I already know the answer: the magic word ‘boyfriend’ that you use here.

        I am now going to be very bossy. Stop dating, Chump from F. You aren’t ready yet. The proof that you are not ready is that you have chosen a ‘flip flopper’ and a ‘future faker’. Your picker is still broken.

        I know it is hard to be single, especially in France. After all, Simone de Beauvoir preached feminism, but failed to live it with Sartre, which is a shame, because she let a lot of French women down that way.

        But you can do it, even if Simone couldn’t. Take a break and learn to enjoy your own company.

      • He sounds almost scary. A hair trigger of excitement and then dead air? I wouldn’t want that. That’s actually very much like the current cheater I have now. You actually don’t sound very excited about him…. So why is he your sometimes boyfriend? Keep that title for people who are good, from the start and always. Not manic people, who don’t care about things you value- like your comic! What an accomplishment!

  • Yes I agree that the personality disordered are great story spinners, so good they actually believe their own convenient lies. My wingnut had undoubtedly bpd, which makes them very flighty. One week it was a great amour comparable to the Notebook, a love that transcends an eternity…oops!! Hold on, the week after he had found a 23 year old stripper that mesmerized him so much he ditched me because ‘he had not had enough fun and freedom in his life’. He was sooo angry I found out since his intentions were quite innocent, he just wanted to take he out for a spin, why was I such a killjoy?

  • “I love you and the kids, I never met for this to happen. I just feel so disconnected, like the three of you are a family and I am not included. She is good for me, but I don’t think that you and I are over yet. Do you think you can get past this or will you never let this go?”, he said during faux reconciliation with our marriage counselor. I said “honestly right now I don’t know”. I guess easy access to Schmoopie’s cookies, money, no responsibilities, change of lifestyle seemed so much easier. He ran, leaving the kids and I sitting at the lunch table dumbfounded.

    At the time I couldn’t see it, but looking back I am relieved that he ran. It has been hard, but life is so much better without him. No more trying to force someone to care about someone other than himself. I wasted a lot of energy trying to fix him. Now my focus is on me and making sure that my kids know I’d never leave them.

    • “. I just feel so disconnected, like the three of you are a family and I am not included. ”

      Oh my God. My husband always says the same thing- that we’re a group and he’s the miserable outsider. Of course he’s the outsider because he never chooses to do anything with us and when I make him vacation with us he hides in the hotel room watching movies instead of going out. He was practically a recluse when we took the kids to Disney. Rest of the time he bitched about his feet or complained about whatever I organized.
      What is it with the self imposed exclusion and self pity? Is it a set up to excuse any and all bad behavior?

      • “he’s the outsider because he never chooses to do anything with us”

        That was the biggest problem in our marriage and the main reason for the damaged relationship he has with our oldest child. He never went to a parent teacher conference, back to school night, concert, movie, etc. His life was about what he wanted to do, not what was best for our family. I once asked him that if on his death bed he would regret not spending more time with the kids or if he wished he had played more golf? When he said golf, I just threw in the towel.

        But of course in MC it was my fault that I didn’t try harder to include him. I am sure he blames me and tells Schmoopie what a bitch I was during our marriage. Only cared about the kids and never him. Sorry, you are a grown up, raised when I married you, not my job to teach you how to be an adult human.

        • I heard something along those lines of ‘you didn’t try hard enough’, which was patently absurd, as I did everything I could to make us a strong family unit. That he wasn’t interested in pulling his weight or contributing unless it suited him is not my fault or my problem. When I look back now I realise just how exhausting it was, trying to get him to be engaged. He wasn’t always checked out but it was apparent on a fairly regular basis. Now someone else can drag that dead weight along.

        • Yep, been there I didn’t try hard enough, I was always asking him to do this and that with the family. He just was so tired all the time! Fuck that shit! The one that caught me off guard, I never “allowed” him to decorate the house. Wtf I have no idea where that came from!! Can’t wait to sell this marriage home and decorate my new place!!

        • They are all clones of each other it seems. No Parent Teacher Conferences, no recitals, no sports, no events. Kids and I go biking and hiking, he bought a bike, never rode it.
          The Hobbit played soccer as a kid and his dad was a professional soccer player, I signed the kids up for soccer thinking it would be a great bonding experience – never went to one practice, never went to a game, never once kicked the ball around the yard with them. And he complains they aren’t sporty enough.
          Our kids do chores, help clean the house, cut the grass and even chop, split and stack wood. He is constantly berating them for being lazy and going on about all he had to do as a kid. He grew up in an apartment and was waited on hand and foot by his mother. Father was a turd but he still didn’t have to do chores.

          I know he bitches about me and paints himself as a martyr, all because he “gasp” has to work. Admittedly he does work hard but it’s not as if nobody else does, I work full time and make as much as he does (in addition to the childcare, housekeeping, grocery shopping, cooking and sundry dentist/doctor visits and managing the kids homework). He just hates obligations and grown up stuff. Bitches about work and how he won’t be able to do it much longer as it’s physical. I’ve suggested courses, retraining etc but he isn’t interested, just wants me to come up with a magical business idea to make us rich.

          Funny thing – one of the things that aroused my suspicions was coming home from a shopping trip with the kids where he was on the phone with someone. While the phone was open he reacted in an effusive manner – welcoming us home, wanting to know what the kids got etc. It was so enthusiastic I knew it had to be a performance for someone (the loving dad show) and of course, she was on the other line.
          Since I found out, he’s suddenly interested in going to their recitals…………..

          What keeps me grounded is seeing his behaviour around the kids. That is what reminds me it isn’t just between us and that helps me to remember that this is his issue.

      • Same story! Totally uninvolved, but pouty he was “left out” as we joyously carried on. Turns out, during those times he chose to stay home since he didn’t like crowds…he was at the bars having one night stands. Hmmm….

        • On a family vacation during wreckonciliation, the same night I got to communicate by text with my STBX’s AP for over an hour (while kids were asleep) as the AP wanted to talk to me and I was (very briefly) in information gathering mode, my STBX told me that he was going out with his colleagues, who were in the same city. After I called him to find out where he had gone and when he was coming back, he asked me if it was OK for him to visit the strip joint where he already was. No wonder our marriage was doomed.

      • Im still in the “light going off over head” stage of realization when I have a memory and instead of seeing it like I did then “He is a good man, just stressed” I now see it knowing that he was a serial cheater. He was SUCH a miserable person to travel with …he got SO worked up and angry over every little thing with the kids. When the 2 oldest were 1&3, we went to SanFrancisco and stayed downtown…H had a tempter tantrum about 11 pm and left for hours. At the time I assumed he was calmly having a beer…now I see he was just as likely getting a blow job.

        • Oh my God…I am STILL qualifying every explanation about his decision with, “but he is a good man.” But I am like you, the light bulbs are going off like they are shining off a mirror ball in a disco club.

      • My situation was the other way around. He was in a nice little lockstep with his unmarried sister and his mum and dad. A neat box of four people, all synchronised, locked down, and inaccessible to people who didn’t share their DNA.

        I was the one who felt always on the outside. The fifth wheel. The annoying extra place at the table that spoiled the symmetry.

        Now how do you figure that?

        • My narc is currently hoovering up his sister, now he realizes that I’m on to him he needs to cultivate one of his earliest enablers. Sister is unmarried at 46 and still picks up prepared food weekly from Mommy. Brother at 33 never has had a girlfriend or any other stable relationship. Parents are infantile and estranged from much of their family, ,many of whom appear to have their own mental issues (alcoholism, hoarding etc.).
          They are their own little crew of paranoia, parentification, infantilization and obsession regarding slights to the family. I find viewing that very helpful – it reminds me that this is his/their issue and that I am not responsible for their behaviour in any way, I just put up with it for too long.
          They are in their own miserable hell, don’t worry about that. My in-laws are obsessed with how the family looks to outsiders and all I can see looking in is a group of sad sacks telling themselves it’s all other peoples fault.

          • Wow! Almost identical situation. Thank you; I don’t feel so bad now! I had never met anyone like this before. It is very incestuous.

    • Same here. Narkles never said it but he may as well have.
      At the rate he traveled I always planned activities with the kids while he was gone, mostly because when he was here he never wanted to do anything because he was tired. We would make big plans on the weekends he was gone and have a ball. And now that he doesn’t live with me it’s so much better! I miss my kids more than anything when they have to be with him but when they are with me we go and do and have experiences. During my d-day I found out he complained that he had to go to a movie with us. Turns out he complained to the Flying Whore about all the stuff he “had” to do with us. It was so rare that we actually had him around and could get him to leave the house that I was stymied by how much complaining he could do about being with his family.

    • Wow, yessssss!!!!

      He still says that about why he decided it was over was because I didn’t “do enough” (unbeknownst to me)- but hung around for a couple years longer, still telling me he loved me, having sex, etc with me…

      I practically begged him on my knees to tell me why he left, and all he could say that he felt like I abandoned him long ago- that I didn’t “do enough” for him. Gag!!!

      He never wanted to do family things, always bitched about crowds, money, never wanted to go out as a couple the last few years, I could never relax when we were out- like I was always expecting him to snap off/get pissed-off about something or another.

      “I heard something along those lines of ‘you didn’t try hard enough’, which was patently absurd, as I did everything I could to make us a strong family unit. That he wasn’t interested in pulling his weight or contributing unless it suited him is not my fault or my problem. When I look back now I realise just how exhausting it was, trying to get him to be engaged. He wasn’t always checked out but it was apparent on a fairly regular basis. Now someone else can drag that dead weight along.”

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS Nord!!!!^^^^^^^^^ Yessssssssss, now he and his OWife and her two young kids can reap all the “awesomeness” that is him!!!!

  • So true, now that I am more mature (after 13 years of marriage) when looking back I see all the signs that you mention in here.

    Oh and on a side note I had some huge news that came out last night. My x really is so narsacistic that she does not even care what our divorce papers say. She just got engaged to the guy she was cheating on me with and bought a house with him 7 months after our divorce.

    Oh boy, I am so looking forward to her receiving my subpoena papers in a few weeks asking for copies of everything so I can cannel the alimony after only 7 months. OH YEA!!!

    • My X got engaged to his trollop 3 months after our divorce was final. I had a flurry of emails from friends asking WTF? because they posted it all over Facebook. Hilarious.

      So happy you won’t have to pay alimony! God that is the worst.

      • Omg, they are all the same. ExH was spending every available moment with the deluded one from December but claims they were not a couple until the divorce I filed for became final in March. They got engaged early October but waited till thy were sitting in court engaged in parenting early November to announce it all over FB which caused people to start messaging me and calling me in the middle of our parenting negotiations. It was a deliberate act to put me off but it failed.

    • Congrats Lothos!

      And it’s so true that the maturity I gained through experience has really helped me with recognizing that I did not consider important red flags early in my relationship with my X.

      We Chumps tend to turn adversity and experiences into wisdom. In contrast, cheaters turn adversity and experiences into more baggage/mindufck amo they use to mindfuck themselves and those around them… So happy to have exited that circus!

  • Latehusbands perception of truth came and went with his moods (which changed drastically and quickly). His biggest item of truthiness was whether we were validly married in the Catholic Church or not. We dated 3 years and were living in separate states. we were a couple, sort of, we had sex when we were together and were very coupleish, but we werent engaged although he assured me that we would become engaged at some uncertain point in the indefinite future when something that he couldnt quite identify happened.

    I was ready to “shit or get off the pot” yes were were very young but we were through school and had our professions underway. Whenever er married I would have to move to be with him, so me investing in the city I lived in was pointless. I was ready to cut bait. I told him if we didnt marry that summer I would move along and pursue a relationship with someone more invested than him.

    I did not threaten suicide, I was not pregnant or poor or homeless. I was fine, just tired of being jerked around by a man giving me mixed messages (should have seen said messages as a red flag!!). He had told me on NYE that “we will marry this year!” I was taking him at his word not understand he was simply looking for a cookie.

    So we marry and he is full up of resentment of being “forced” to marry from the get-go. It was 1986 and “Topgun” was in full glory and he was in Naval Flight School and bore a certain resemblance to Tom Cruise (he later turned into Fred Flintstone). and I wrecked his kibble machine.

    So he concocted this “truthish” story that he had been so coerced and forced to marry that his consent was demanded of him but he was so reluctant to give it that our Catholic marriage (that actually REQUIRED valid consent) was therefore invalid and we were never really married. (Mind you we would have still been legally married but that is completely beside the point).

    So rather than clearly explain to me that he regretted his decision, end the M and have a clean break (and show any integrity at all) he opted to stay in the kibble-rich marriage (where I did fucking back flips to try to make him happy) and simply declare himself “not married due to reluctance on wedding day” whenever it suited him to.

    This dynamic went on for 26 years and I could fill a book with the stories but you guys could well guess what it all looked like…but Major Truthiness could pull out a full blown “we are married, says I !!” or a “we were never married why do you insist on holding me to something I never agreed to ?” out of his ass in a moments notice. Im sure it was part of his cheater narrative. In any given moment he could convince himself of the absolute certainly of his most current version and intensity of his truthiness.

    At some point when we were wreckonciled our family was living an outwardly Catholic life, I urged him to recommit to our vows since he didnt want to leave the M but also convinced me that our vows were iffy. He promised to do so “if we live until” our 25th anniversary which was 5 years off. I waited patiently but just before he was due to make good on that commitment, he refused to follow through with a new truthy comment that new vows would disrespect the ones we made before (not true…the Church encourages vow renewal and the old vows were shaky enough to justify adultery). He lived 374 more days after reneging on his promise.

    My new husband and I were married Lutheran because it was best for his family circumstances but he consented to go down to my local Catholic Church and say the words I had longed for YEARS to hear.

    • Now when my friends ask me why I decided to remarry I tell then that marriage is something I really wanted to do at least once.

    • I’m not catholic, but I’m pretty sure you have to pay to have a church investigation to prove whether or not your marriage is valid BEFORE you are allowed to marry someone else and have sex with someone else. His thinking really doesn’t help his case even a little bit. Even if he had been validly single, he would still be in sin for fornication if he’s sleeping with people he’s not married to.

      There are a couple of verses in Proverbs 26:
      4 Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.
      5 Be sure to answer the foolish arguments of fools, or they will become wise in their own estimation.

      I prefer going with the one that suggests not even trying to answer the foolish arguments of fools. Really, it doesn’t work arguing with a delusional, manipulative or abusive person. They will just make you feel like you are going crazy.

      • Actual truth is that one cannot simply decide that their Catholic marriage is invalid. Truthiness lets people decide that for themselves and switch it back and forth to fit their situation…apparently when you need a wife to manage a cross country move, its optimal to claim full marriage; when you want to screw coworkers, you deem your marriage invalid. Methinks that God is likely not a big fan of truthiness.

  • Yep. I’m a cookie less bitch. And when I have them, I have stopped offering cookies which makes him completely irate right now because I need my cookies for me and people who don’t hold me emotionally hostage.

  • This made me laugh, in a dark sort of way. During pretend reconciliation x sent me an email, I was at work. He was expressing the shocking realization that he could have lost me and how grateful he was that I was giving him another chance. How he would never hurt me again.

    The reality…he called up skank #2 as soon as he hit send.

    When I asked, after dday #2 why did you bother??? Why even say it??? His reply, “I meant it in the moment”.

    Just wow. I will never understand and for that I am grateful. I am grateful I am a real person with real emotions, the ability to bond and love. I am grateful I am not him or his new girlfriend.

  • I change my mind quite often to adapt to new circumstances, let´s say it rains on the day we had planned to go to the park, we stay at home. Or maybe I´ll change the restaurant I chose previously because I found a new one that seems more exciting. These changes drove my cheater crazy. But now I realize that his “truthiness” was related to time and in that sense he was screwing with my mind. He was always punctual with everyone else and hated my keeping of time, but he was ALWAYS late with anything that was related to me. So he would always be late for dinner, at least one or two hours. Other time incidents: he would say something lasted an hour when in reality it lasted half a day or something happened two years ago, when in reality it happened five years ago.

    Yesterday we had a meeting about finances (we are divorced since June but we had some bills pending related to our children) and he said that he just wanted to be happy in 2016 and wasn´t going to feel guilty about his affair anymore because I had made him feel terrible and he wasn´t going to let me do that to him anymore. He said that we had a bad relation anyway and that we hadn´t had sex in four years before his affair because I didn´t want to. OMG, major blameshift. I reminded him that it wasn´t four years, that I always had to do approach him when it did happen, that he never pursued me anymore after the kids were born and that he had this rule that we could not have sex if we had a fight because we had to talk about it and resolve it first. He hated the notion of make-up sex (go figure!) but picked something to fight about every day!! And the conversations would always end up being monologues about how deficient I was in some task that I had to do or in something related to our kids! How can you be attracted or attractive to someone like that! In any case, I am totally at Meh these days so I tried not to explain because of course he would respond angrily and blameshift.

    I simply suggested that he should try dating men because he ruined and cheated on two perfectly good marriages to women who took care of him and gave him a good life, so maybe he is simply on the wrong “track”. He didn´t say no, he said he had to think about that…Very early in our relationship he said he was bisexual, but never brought it up again…I was so chumpy and inmature at that time that I wanted to see that as his adventures of his youth, something that went away. Major red flag…In conclusion: his biggest lie is really to himself…his whole life now looks to me like a poster boy for “truthiness.”

      • No kids with Fat Bastard and no joint property. Married just over 2 years so he can’t file for spousal support, and in my state even if he could infidelity cancels out any chance of spousal support. I’m looking forward to quickly and cleanly removing him from my life.

        • Great news, gepster. No children with my cheater either. That, in itself, is a gift. My heart hurts for the fellow chumps here who have to deal with their cheaters because of their children.

    • The whole time thing sounds like classic passive aggressiveness to me. Did your ex show any other signs of passive aggressiveness?

      • Sounds a lot like my STBX, Chumpita. He confessed to being bisexual during our reconciliation and told me it’s no big deal, that everyone is a “little bit” bisexual and, besides, he limits it to “subconscious fantasies.” Of course when I questioned him he did a complete about-face and told me to forget he ever said it, he didn’t mean it.

        Fast forward a few more years to a rapidly disintegrating sex life, major cheating red flags all over the place, and evidence of EAs with women, hook-ups with men, and I bring up the earlier conversation. Two hours of gaslighting, blameshifting, and general verbal abuse later, and he screams at me, “Are you accusing me of being a latent homosexual? Because I’m not, I just have same sex attractions like everyone else! The real problem in our marriage is that you’re fucking crazy!”

        He also told me with a straight face that the reason he has to guard his technology with his life is because if I went through it I would find something to accuse him of cheating since I’m always accusing him of cheating. Wha?

        That and so many other things he’s said over the years that he later denied and then accused me of making up. The scary thing is, he truly believes it. And will gladly tell anyone who will listen how crazy and delusional I am to claim emotional abuse and sexual neglect as issues in our marriage.

  • Grass is greener blah, ba-blah, ba-fucking-blah. These are the type of assholes that aren’t willing to put in the work to make their own yards (lives, relationships) work or look good so they hire someone (OW or OM) to spray paint their lawns green and wonder why we are angry when all they had to do was turn on the fucking sprinklers. We fertilized, mowed, and pulled weeds (I.E. put in 99% of the actual work) and they couldn’t even be bothered to turn on a spigot, guess that is what makes us chumps in that we didn’t or wouldn’t see that they weren’t willing to put in any fucking effort from the beginning.

    • One of the things he said to me, comparing me to his girlfriend was: “You could greet me at the front door with a kiss when I get home from work.” And I said: “I would have but by the time I got home from work, you were already sleeping on the couch.”

      • Bahahahaha so much this. Or, sometimes : I would, but since you don’t drive because you’re lazy I always pick you up in my car.

        OMG how did my life turn into a destinys child song… I have a scrub ho-hub.

        • Bbbhore didn’t drive either, drove me fucking nuts that she wouldn’t even attempt to learn. Then she cheats, runs away and tried to get her family to teach her to drive, moves back and still can’t drive. Stupid fucking whore.

    • So true!! grass is green where you water it !! H was so fucking mean to me while he was having his worst affair and he gave OW every last kibble he had leaving me desolate and then used the fact that things were bad at home (after fully shitting on everything and everybody!) as a reason to justify the affair. If he weren’t having one, thing would have been much better. He caused me pain then blamed me for it.

      • Why are they so cruel? Blaming us for the nasty treatment, when they know exactly what they are really doing. This more than the f**ing breaks the trust.

  • Yep, if it looks like bullsh*t and sounds like bullsh*t, no amount of sparkly pink ribbon, perfume, or Enya music makes it anything besides bullsh*t. Pew.

    • Bahahahhaa oh wow. Oh wow. Seriously. Not that hard. Very low functioning people can understand and comply with basic marriage commitment. What did she think she was there for, scrap booking class? Oh all she heard was ‘Yoga pant allowance, 30 day slow cooker meal prep recipe exchanges, and plenty of sex on the side’ ? What the hell.

      • No kidding. I honestly thought for better or for worse meant “I will stand by your side if you fall ill, get disabled or lose your job.” I did not think for a second that it could mean “I will stand by your side when you lie to my face repeatedly, tell me I’m not normal and give me the gift of hpv.” I’ve been happily single for 7 and a half years because I know now that I definitely do not mean those vows in all circumstances. Adultery is certainly a valid biblical reason to leave but verbal put downs are sketchy and I really don’t see myself sticking to my vows if someone was to talk to me like that again.

        • The worse I tollerated for years. I never did anything to deserve his abuse. I genuinely loved him as pitiful as it sounds. He threw me off balance repeatedly. It was always me putting up with his problems. I didn’t know the extent of it until I came here, found an amazing therapist and worked my ass off to recover. Fuck situational fucking bullshit truthfulness. The truth is they are selfish entitled pricks. Fuck the Reconcilliation to the unfaithful. Run from these monsters. I don’t know where I would have been without all of you to gain a life. Thank you!

          • I agree. Run. I could have saved myself three years of false reconciliation if I’d left the first time. I’ve actually heard of some people who are married for many years with 15+ affairs from their spouse. I can’t blame them for having a hard time filing since I know it’s not easy, but no one should have to live like that.

    • “I didn’t understand what I was promising.”
      WTF?!?! Were the marriage vows in Latvian? were they performed as an interpretive dance? Performance art? That has to be the single most idiotic response I’ve ever heard!

      • And even if they were, wouldn’t you be smart enough to fucking research what things meant BEFORE you committed to them?
        Its like those disordered twits who sign a legal agreement and then try to get out of it, citing the same thing. Morons.

  • I love this!! Truthiness! I am always amazed at how fast the story can shift, and how utterly convinced he seems to be at each version of it. I have to remind myself not to believe his “reasons” and his versions of reality, because most likely they are total BS. The fact that he can say them convincingly with tears in his eyes does not make them true. He told our counselor that his problems all came from the fact that I had health problems and couldn’t have sex with him anymore. Then he came home and told me tearfully how he confessed that we never have sex anymore. We were having sex at least 2x per week. When I pointed that out, he said, “But I want to have sex EVERY DAY! And you aren’t fun enough.” So I guess sex twice per week with me didn’t count at ALL. Truthiness.

    • Add to this the extra mind-fuck that I wanted to have sex more, and he resisted and kept saying he was too tired. Later I realized it was because he had already gotten off to all his porn and fantasy gfs. But noooo…. it was my health problems that were interfering in a healthy sex life.

      • I feel like everyone here is talking directly to me. When I did try to initiate, he would sometimes pretend not to be asleep but to just be totally unaware that I was making the moves on him. Then mind fuck me until I didn’t know if I was supposed to initiate or not, because when I did, he would pretend it wasn’t initiating, or he would say he was tired. When he did, I would take it even if I wasn’t particularly jazzed because God knows when I will get it again… And it usually ended with him not finishing, faking that he came. Because he’s a sad fucking sausage. Post ‘panty find 2015’ nope. I have nothing for him and I don’t care that this erectile dysfunctional perv is spending all his energies on slunts. So happy he found something worthy of his time. His hand his computer his credit card and his phone and these ghastly whores who make him feel like a real man.

      • Snake did everything he could to avoid sex the last few years, and when he did cave, it was almost never anything but mutual masturbation, nothing intimate. Actual intercourse became almost non-existent, and oral rapidly diminished too.

        NOT my choice, but I went along with it, because it was all I had. Chump that I was, I leapt into bed with him at any opportunity, even if it was him walking by rubbing on his dick saying “Got five minutes?”

        Romantic, huh?

        He’d say sex just wasn’t that important to him, but I was groped and objectified constantly – but there was little to no follow through when it came time for doing anything. All talk, no action. Total mindfuck.

        I will never settle for crumbs again. If I’m not getting the full loaf, fuck it.

        • Full loaf… This has me imagining foreplay peek a boo with a baguette, and I’m laughing my ass off. I applaud this and it makes me want to actually think about dating someday when I don’t feel like my insides have been run over and then boiled in superglue.

          • Did you people have cameras in my bedroom? I swear I think we all married the same fucktard! Yup, sex dried up almost as soon as the rings went on – he blamed my rehearsal schedule, my son, the “stress of being married for the first time”, my previous marriages, my weight, not enough romance from me, anything to divert attention from the porn addiction and online sluts (and who knew so many women were willing to text their twats to total strangers? Seriously?).

            Kinda hard to feel romantic when you’re on your feet for 12 hours and picking up overtime because you’re the only source of income for the household, or when you ask your partner who has sat on his ass all day to rub your aching feet and he says “I don’t do feet”. As for my weight, he outweighed me by almost 200lb, so no room to talk. All of his other excuses – bullshit.

            I know I’m not ready to date yet, but I can see it happening in the future. I almost pity the poor guy, because my standards are going to be sky freakin high.

            • WOW, I swear we were with the same guy!!! “I don’t do feet…” being the only source of income, the lack of household chores support, the sex not being good after a while— always being told to go “fetch a stud to fuck while I watch” or having to watch porn to “stimulate” him first”…

              Same here, gepster- the next guy I get involved with is going to have to go through hoops of fire!!!

              • Hoops of fire! I love that! I know I am not ready either. Interested men have been too young or already taken. Maybe someday. I keep thinking that there is a reason for all of this. My son’s resilient attitude, since his cheater step-dad left, is proof enough for me that this is the best thing for both of us.

      • “I am always amazed at how fast the story can shift, and how utterly convinced he seems to be at each version of it.”

        yes this x1000

  • Yeah, I would discourage arguing over realities. That is a good way to feel/go crazy. It is completely reasonable to expect someone to keep their solemn vows of fidelity. Cheating is completely treacherous and unreasonable…like a stab in the back.

    • ‘Yeah, I would discourage arguing over realities. That is a good way to feel/go crazy. ‘

      This…. I need this on a t-shirt.

      Cheater Ho-hub is currently not talking to me because I didn’t dance sparkly enough about how good Star Wars was. Not that I said something bad about it, not that I didn’t say I liked it. That I didn’t reinforce to him how good I thought it was…

      Little does he know this is a great break for me where I don’t have to veil my feelings and pretend everything’s fine. It’s going to be hard when he decides he wants to snuggle and I have to ‘forgive’ and be sparkly again until it’s time to tell him I’ve filed.

  • Ah, ‘truthiness.’ This is my ex to a T. He was the king of lying by omission, or “I said it because I wanted it to be true.”
    He compartmentalized for over two decades. Well, that’s OWife’s problem now.

    Now I have to worry about truthiness in the dating scene.I really wish some of you nice guy chumps lived out my way.
    Last guy ended up a liar. Glad I dodged the bullet, but it is discouraging (no one else on the horizon).

    • Yeah, truthiness in the dating scene. I have recently been posting about a breakup after only 7 weeks of dating. I was determined to be ’emotionally unavailable’……then he came whimpering back 2 days ago. I said “NOPE. Bye, Felicia”.

      I am learning the truthiness of the guy…..he was with me last Sunday, left me after taking my face in his hands and telling me ‘you are so lovely’. We had just made plans for me to meet his family and two more events, including a NYE gala.

      The next morning by SHEER inattention, I inadvertently clicked on OKCupid instead of the intended “Okie….” site. Guess what, Mr Romantico was on OKC right then. I clicked on his profile and he instantly got a pop up of ‘So lovely just viewed you.” OOOPS> guess who shot off of OKC on a rocket.

      That evening I emailed that I would not be attending the meet the family luncheon, I realized I didn’t belong there. No other words.
      He sent back “Lovely, I understand”….no other words.

      The next morning, he sent me a very polite email saying “thank you for blah blah but I have always felt you didn’t think I was the man for you. You appear to be emotionally unavailable’ blah blah Best of luck, your match is out there blah blah.”

      Well, you know what? Last week I was taking it as having been dumped but HE didn’t break up with ME.. I broke up with him the night before when I told him I wouldn’t be attending the luncheon.

      He was trawling on OKC after we both agreed we would close our profiles because we were going to explore a relationship….He must have swallowed his tongue when the ‘caughtcha red handed pop up came up.

      Truthiness smoothiness.

      Oh well, in those short 7 weeks, I had many lovely dinners, got to go dancing and taken to a bunch of really cool places and a diamond necklace for my birthday….no, I didn’t put out. He actually didn’t seem interested in manifesting a physical relationship yet he determines I am emotionally unavailable. Mind fuck? Yep. But it rolled off my back. In the scheme of things, this was nothing compared to what I went through at the hands of the jerk at the curb and my wasband.

      • I am emotional unavailable and I intend to remain that way for quite awhile. Protect myself. I need to heal and find my place in the world and make me happy again I hope. Ex is furious I won’t just go find another guy to be with. Just because he sticks his dick in anything that moves doesn’t mean I’m that way. And king of the walk says if he ain’t in the panties first or second date he moves on. But it not just sex he has to have some kind of connection first. Hmmm can I connect my dick to that vagina in a few hours. Any woman who puts out on the first date is a slut. Second date a whore. I mean really? Hi, wanna have a beer. Wanna fuck. Sheesh! Thirty years I never ever really knew him. Whore has him now good!

        • Hardy har har, Kar! “has to have a connection first. Hmmm can I connect my dick to that vagina…” hehehehehe

          I am willing to explore whether my heart is ready for a relationship. I’ve been ‘alone’ for 5 yrs now and it’s just about time to see what’s out there. My radar is set on high as far as red flags…..and I realized I had some that I spackled over with this guy. When you first get to know someone, the problem is you don’t know them. Are they just quirky or narky? I learned some lessons on this one. I was upset for about 36 hours and realized it’s not worth the brain cells.

          The worst part is I have no living family and live in a rather isolated area. Very few friends and all of them are busy with family. This man and I were going to be together a lot during the holidays.
          Now I will be cooking the entire dinner for myself, dining by myself. I’ve done that plenty of times before and survived when emotions were raw. I will survive this time, too. I am far stronger today than I was last year.

        • That comment about your ex- wanting you to get another man— For weeks after he left, The Evil One would ask me, “You with anyone yet? I figured since I was out of the picture you’d be with someone else by now…”

          Looking back now, I realize that even though we were “separated”, he wanted me to go out and reel in another man ASAP so HE could accuse me of cheating in the divorce…I knew that’s what he was trying to do, even though he had countless women and his Schmoopie less than a month after he moved out and hadn’t even filed for divorce yet…so I lived like a nun for a while, then once the divorce was final, I did start getting out there, but proud of myself that I NEVER took the bait …

  • This truthiness thing really gets to me because to the outside X looked like an honest, kind, loving person. He prided himself on being the best in his business and being fair in his pricing to the elderly, or long time customers. He wasn’t a shady business person. He repeatedly said, no one else has a problem with me other than YOU! This was when his veins would pop out as he raged at me. The rage typically came if I called him on something. This was part of the conditioning I tolerated. So rather than work on something or change his behavior, I got the blame for his anger.

    This pathological liar knew exactly what he was doing. I’m tired of blaming it on mental illness. And there are numerous people with BP disorder who seek help and struggle to live a decent life. Yes, after a while cheaters do believe their own lies. However, they never lie to protect others, only themselves. They lie to maintain the status of good father/husband for years while living a double life. They knowingly make plans they will not ever keep. I believe it is deliberate. Situational depending on who they are with, what they need, and what is necessary to keep something going or to end it.

    This was his situational truth.
    Situational truth for the WHORE 1. My wife is…..(fill in every imaginable flaw). 2. I haven’t been happy for two years. 3. I have to support her. 4. I’m living in my daughters basement.
    Situational truth: 1. I love you….while he’s seeing her. 2. I wanted to do all these things with you… 3. Lets buy a house….

    Then there are the lies of omission: I never knew until recently he assaulted my daughter and punched her in the face. Trickle truth-you didn’t ask me that.

    Yeah, now I’m into organic food. That crappy filler shit causes too much pain. It might look good but over time it subtly poisons your whole system.

    • “He repeatedly said, no one else has a problem with me other than YOU! This was when his veins would pop out as he raged at me. The rage typically came if I called him on something.”

      OMG, donna, I think we were married to the same person. During his rages at me mine would say, “Do you know what it’s like having to look at you knowing that you are the only person in my entire life that I’ve ever met who doesn’t like me??!!!”

      Who even wants to believe such a thing of themselves? The combination of profound insecurity and grandiosity makes for some serious cray cray.

      • Is there anyone out there who had a rage filled narc who screamed so violently that he nearly blew out his vocal cords? I did. My wasband did one night He couldn’d speak the next day–at all—and had to take a very important deposition on a multi million dollar case.

        Did he get any sympathy from me? NO. Did he blame me for inability to speak? Of course he did.

        He had to go to the doctor for treatment. I can’t imagine how he explained what caused the tear in his vocal cord.

        Dumbfuck!

        • My ex would scream like that, but since he was passive -aggressive he screamed about the house being dirty, the television controller not working (upon which pronouncement he would promptly throw and break it), the children being messy, his car running improperly, the pets making a mess, whatever. Then when I’d confront him he’d insist he wasn’t yelling at me….so then I’d have to ask him, “Well then who are you yelling at, the butler? The maid? The nanny? The chauffeur? Wait, we don’t have any of those, so it MUST be me.” He wouldn’t admit it, he just didn’t have the balls to yell at me directly….coward. Then his voice would go hoarse, ruining his golden oratory in his public speaking and Business coaching business the next day, you know, the business in which he touts integrity and holds himself out as a man of honor.

  • My DD 21 is home from college this week. She knows the basic reason that I am divorcing her father — he is a serial cheater — but I have done my best to shield her from all of the truly ugly details. No child should be forced to picture her father riding the OW while wearing an executioners mask (true story! OWhore sent me pix). Yet DD insisted on defending her father to me after a visit with him last night.

    According to her (according to him!), he is a good person who values loyalty, fidelity and honesty. He simply made a mistake due to his FOO issues, his poor self esteem, and the “extreme pain” that he was in for the 15 years of our 23-year marriage that he hooked up for bareback sex with total strangers in parking lots.

    Read that again: Good person! Values! AND THEY BOTH BUY THIS SHIT WITH THEIR WHOLE HEARTS!!!

    Every time I think I am getting close to meh, situational truth raises its ugly head and bitch slaps me.

    • Kristen,

      There are ways to let your daughter know that he was doing the sordid stuff without being graphic about it. I let my children know their father was into Ashley Madison for the majority of their lives and they both looked up AM and basically realized he was not the nice man he’s been claiming he was.

    • Also- I value my plant. I value having a green thumb. It doesn’t mean I’m capable of having one. If I don’t water plant, keep it in sunshine or even if I so and I and go play with other plants for a few weeks, it will die, even though I value a green thumb.

      That is the epitome of truthiness!!! Sending this sneaky message through your kid- ‘ I love the idea of being true to you,’ reality: ‘ I just am incapable of keeping my dick in my pants, so it’s just that. An ideal. ‘ sneaky man can’t even just own it. ‘I’m a cheating bastard I need to stick it in many holes.’ No. He makes it seem like your fault to your poor daughter who wants to believe her dad isn’t a douche. Ugh

    • If my parent tried to tell me details about his/her sex life, I would have to stop him/her. I want them to be happy, but I don’t want to share my sexual details with them or hear theirs. Inappropriate!

      I hope the day comes where your daughter looks back and realizes tjay, while you respectfully didn’t subject her to any sordid details of your sex life with her dad, that he did discuss his sex life with his own daughter, and that it is TOTALLY SKEEVY GROSS YUCKY that he would even consider talking with her about his sex life. No boundaries. Yuck.

      • Thanks for the reply, AmilsFree, but I think you missed something. NO ONE shared ANY sexual details with the kiddo. That WOULD be gross! I was subjected to details by OW, but not DD. She is just getting Cheater’s version of our split, which is that he is a splendid person, “mistakes were made,” and that I filed for divorce because I am a bitter bunny who cannot forgive his human frailty.

    • She’s “buying” that because she wants to. She’s spackling for her dad, because she loves him and can’t face what he’s done. But really, what kind of relationship will they ever have if it’s not based on honesty? If he honestly owns it and doesn’t make excuses that blameshift, they can maybe move forward. If he acts like a baby every time he sees her, glossing over what is really the truth, there is no way their relationship can experience any sort of depth. That depth…will be reserved for what she has with you. i think creativerational’s two-sentence response was dead on. Keep living your truth, in your words and your actions….it will pay off. Let him bury himself, because he will. And then you, the loving constant, will be there to pick up the pieces.

    • Kristen–that sucks; to be betrayed and then have your daughter play Switzerland. Know what will cure that? the truth. My DD20 and DD14 both know the vast majority of what their father did (with the grisliest details spared) because they will have one parent who tells the truth (my promise to them). No f’ing way cheaters get a pass because we assist with their impression management.

  • My favorite cheater lie/line was “It’s not what you think!” Constant gaslighting does make you feel crazy. No more of this!

  • Truthiness. When I was on my hands and knees sobbing so deeply because the jerk had just detonated a bomb in my life – and seemed so calm about it – I kept asking questions like “What about our vows? Why did you even bother to marry me?” His response was “I loveD you and thought it was what I wanted at the time.” I am so chumpy that I failed to hear the past tense part of that response. And then I did the Pick Me Dance for a year afterward. I failed to recognize how low his self esteem is, so when M started a new job where he was suddenly interacting with a lot of women his age, he mentally checked out so quickly because he never knew he had other opportunities once the co-workers all fell for his good guy routine. Did he mean it at the time when he said he loved me and would be faithful forever? Possibly. It’s more likely his truthiness and situational truths made it a lot easier for him to detach and go running toward other women offering different varieties of cookies. In his mind, better cookies. Cookies that were more compatible with his glass of milk!

  • Wow. They really screw with our minds huh? You deserve way better. If he’s so health conscious, shouldn’t he be worried about the side effects of implants? My ex also made no sense. I went to counseling and we were talking about it. I told him the counselor said I shouldn’t identify myself by my shyness. He got exasperated and exclaimed “But you’re not normal!” This coming from the man who thought it was good fun to shoot himself in the leg with a pellet gun in front of me.

  • My ex when confronted with affair, told me I could fix her (by screwing her) from her bad divorce. You have MS, I can’t fix you. Despite all his ‘we’ll get through this together when I confronted him we should split due to the Diagnosis. But when he met and screwed his ho’worker, situational truth raised its head.

    Nice…

    The truth? He didn’t fix anyone but his Johnson. She fixed herself by dumping her disabled husband and attaching onto my ex like a parasite. He fixed himself in so many ways. She loves to smoke and drink and do drugs. So she is so much fun!!! I am not.

    My truth – happier without the constantly shifting reality he creates, like quick sand.

    Just hope my kids can move on, like I have been able to.

  • My cheating ex wife told me after 14 years in our current house “it never felt like my house”…and then “It just NEVER felt right in our 24 years together”…NEVER FELT RIGHT?! 24 years of raising kids and sports and Cub Scouts and gymnastics and dance classes and competitions and trips to Disneyland etc etc it NEVER felt right?
    I learned it’s just much better cutting them off and their new narrative. I don’t need her pearls of wisdom bouncing around my head.

    • It never felt right…. in my situation it turns out I was not the drug infested tattoo ass hole who parties all the time….. Nothing like being compared to such when we have to do the boring pay bills, raise kids, and maintain stability…. while they are out playing single drinking it up!

      • Oh I hear that. Her new Mr Wonderful has 4 kids with 4 baby mamas and now OUR kids have very little to do with her.
        And she keeps trying to ram HIS daughter down our daughters throat. She’s having none of it. Disgusting. Well I have the kids over for the second Christmas without her,
        she can hang with his family and her equally disordered mother. Good riddance.

        • disordered mother!!! yep yep yep…. like inviting the POS tattoo drug infested male over for dinner at her house!!! Full speed ahead on promoting my spouses adultery!!! Yeah Mr. Wonderful three different baby mamas! Let them have what they want…. No reason to stand in the way of that!!!

          • Haha wow sounds like we are in parallel universes..! Her whole family has embraced my replacement, believe me he has no idea what he’s in for! He can have the whole bunch of them for all I care. I saved a fortune not having to cover their Christmas like I did every yeah!
            Merry Christmas, believe me we are better with the cheaters gone!

            • Nice!!! Talk about parallel….. I have been footing majority of Christmas dinners and gifts for 25 years!!! I showed up Christmas Eve at her moms house and had to go buy the groceries!!! Then none of them will lift a finger to clean after not cooking!!! I can say not all of her family embrace the POS…. mom full throttle! I guess anything to get rid of me and have daughter as miserable as her…. she is a great advice giver being she is on number 5 marriage!!!

    • Oh yes, the family embracing the new Mrs. Evil One!!!

      I haven’t spoken to his family not once since my birthday this past March- and it all started about three weeks after that…I have NO clue how/what they think/feel about the new Mrs., and I don’t care- they are assholes themselves that I haven’t missed dealing with them at all!!!

      A couple months back, The Evil One told me that Schmoopie’s family “likes [me] for some reason”…and all I could think to myself was “give it a while”, LOL. He has completely leeched onto her family, her friends, which is what he does…. in fact, he bragged to me that before they started dating, he “investigated” her, her parents, her brother, her friends, etc. One creepy thought just came to me about that— long, long ago when his step-mom first met his dad, his dad told her that he knew “everything” about her- and they had only been on one date- he told her that he knew her bank account information, her school history her whole life- that he had “investigated” her fully and knew how much she even had in retirement!!!!

      I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall at Christmas dinner when he tries to tell them how to cook- he thinks himself a “master chef”, when in reality he worked very little at a few casino buffets- I say a few because he couldn’t ever keep a job even then…His former AP’s mom told me that one time while preparing food for a cook-out, he told her that she was slicing a tomato wrong. She looked at him like he was stupid, but it’s just an example of how he acts…

  • Cheater: “I only married you because I was trying to do the right thing.”
    Me: “So the tears of happiness that you shed in front of all of our friends and family on our wedding day when you talked about how much you loved me and how lucky you are were crocodile tears?”
    Cheater: “No, I meant everything I said that day.”
    Me: “You were actively involved with another woman when we got married. How could you possibly have meant what you said?”
    Cheater: “I was overcome with emotion and I meant everything at the time. I meant my vows in the moment. But things changed and I just don’t love you anymore.”
    Me: “It was only two months ago!”

    He loved me so much he decided to marry me, but he was only marrying me out of obligation so he went deeper into his affair because I drove him to it. Then on our wedding day he was back in love with me, but not enough to stop his affair, and then within a few weeks he didn’t love me anymore. When confronted about his past cheating in other relationships, he denied being a serial cheater because “those things were all situational.” Yet he’s a law enforcement officer and revels in holding people to the unwavering letter of the law. What an absolute scumbag.

    He’s now living with his affair partner, whose version of the truth is just as malleable. I wonder if they have a dry erase board in their apartment that says “My truth for the day is: ….” But no, that would take away that best part of situational truth, which is that it is best applied retroactively so that it cannot be challenged.

      • Thanks. 🙂 That was after 10 years and a child together, no less! I’m mostly at meh at this point. Now I’m just wating for the shit to hit the fan so I can watch the blowback smack him in the face!

  • Well I am sure if tomorrow I became unemployed and all was lost, she would never have stayed. Today is the anniversary of her last known cheap porn sex visit to her boy toy….. the day she talked t o me on the phone all the way to his front door about life and our new house. Her excuse to get off phone was a work call…. hours later she arrived at her destination sending me emoji hearts and kisses! Truth will always be….. I was a SAP! And she is a WHORE!

  • I think some narcs don’t even mean what they say at the moment they say it. I got lies of expedience for 16 years. Whatever worked for him at the moment was what flew out of his mouth. He was a truly gifted liar, and some of his explanations were so goofy I thought that no one could possibly make that shit up. The more I believed what he said, the stranger it became. I mean, who would lie about not being in his hotel room at 2 a.m. because a chandelier had fallen on the bed and NEARLY KILLED HIM, after which the manager had moved him (quaking from fear and in shock) to another room and then forgotten to notify the front desk of the room change? A chandelier???? Apparently, that worked better for him than to say that he was out with my best friend from college, crying on her shoulder and pillow about our “separation.” I guess that being out of town on business qualifies as a marital separation for assclowns like that.

    After the divorce, I heard from others that we’d had an “open marriage.” Surprise!! Or that we were “separated” for years. Really? Then why was he home every night for dinner, telling me how much he loved me? I did think at some point it was odd that there were certain people we hadn’t seen in quite a while, not realizing that Cheaterpants was doing backflips to prevent his various realities from colliding.

    • 1,000% this Survivor. Sometimes my ex’s stories were so beyond wacky, that I truly thought they had to be the truth. I reasoned that no one in their right mind would A) Make up such ridiculous nonsense, and B) Think that anyone would believe such ridiculous nonsense if it wasn’t actually the truth. Man – Kings of the mind f!

      • Blerg, when I heard that tall chandelier tale, I immediately thought a) when have I ever seen a chandelier over a bed in a hotel? and b) if such a thing existed and fell, he must have been swinging from it. So I decided to find out just how truthful he’d been. I told him that I’d spoken to the hotel manager, and it never happened. His response: “I don’t want to talk about it.”

        Since I was on a roll, I also told Pinocchio that I could tell when he was lying because his pupils contracted when he did that. Total rubbish, of course, but from that moment on I could ALWAYS tell when he was lying because he wouldn’t look me in the eye. It was like installing an ignition interlock device on his bullshit.

          • Yes, but not recommended if you aren’t prepared for War. Calling out a liar cheat as a liar cheat when they are NPD sorts is only for people prepared for it. And absolutely committed to fielding the backlash. You won’t find a timid forest creature after that. Just a bully committed to paving you into the ground. But for the first time in a long time, I was getting valid information.

    • I was engaged to my cheater, thankfully we never married. This is many years ago but when we were engaged he got a job in the Turks & Caicos before it became the hot spot resort it is today. Anyway, he called me before coming home and told me that a buoy had snapped in the water and hit his neck. He sustained a hematoma (SP?) and said he was (according to the doctors) lucky to be alive. So he gets off the plane and is sporting what looks like a huge hickey on his neck, I even joked and said that it looked like a hickey, he got so upset and said I could have died and here you are making jokes. I believed him!! I never had any doubt, talk about head up my ass. About 8 months later his Island girlfriend gave birth to a baby girl.

        • Of course shortly after the “near death” experience we broke up. His friend told his girlfriend who told me all about his new island love interest. He tried to contact me a few years later (I was engaged to my now husband at the time) through mutual friends. He was a true sociopath, had everything going for him and would just screw things up time & time again. No conscience. His family has disowned him and all friends he grew up with dropped him. A year ago I googled him and low and behold there was his “mug shot” for some petty larceny crap. One mug shot he looked completely trashed and the other very angry. I did notice in the photos his mouth was shut-he had had a gorgeous smile, perfect teeth, so I think the teeth aren’t so perfect these days. I chalk him up to another bullet dodged.

      • I got a call at work one back in 2011 from my now ExHusband to be told he had been bashed with a skateboard and robbed in the city, while returning from a client visit. He worked in recruitment. I leave work and drive the hour it took to get to the city office to collect him. In my concern I ask who? where? how? I was spun the biggest load of shit.
        The story was so vague and did change depending who was being told. We sat in the hospital ED due to his head injury roughly 10 hours later because he felt sick. While there he wrote out what had happened as he was concerned he may forget. He had refused to be treated by paramedics on site of the incident claiming to be ok. In the days and weeks that followed he suffered a mysterious delayed reaction to the blow to the head he sustained that produced a bizarre form of short term memory loss.
        On d’day he confirmed my suspicions, it was a gay hook up gone wrong.
        He had lied to everyone. Even the police to whom he made a false statement.
        About a year after the event he made comment that he may need to go to court to testify and that he was one of the lucky ones, apparently his attackers MO also included a knife.
        He could have been murdered. Poor sausage couldn’t handle rough talk as it retriggered his trauma. And surprisingly never went to court but he did claim his attacker went to jail.
        The shit we believe and endure because we are expected to trust, love and care for these fuckwits, just blows my mind.

    • Omg. After I could not reach my ex on his cell when he was away in a “business trip” I called the hotel directly and the manager told me ex had cancelled his reservations and was not staying there that night. I was beside myself, as ex was to call me as soon as he arrived at the hotel. The next morning, ex told me he was at the hotel, fell asleep early and did not hear my calls to his cell. He was INCENSED that the hotel told me he was not there, ex told me he was irate and yelled at the manager before he left.

      All a lie of course. But even after the divorce he insisted he was really at the hotel and had just fallen asleep early, and that the manager had been wrong.

      After the divorce I found a receipt he kept for taxes where he meticulously noted he was with AP#1 at a fancy bar in that town and it was time-stamped 11:50 pm that night.

      Sickos, all of them.

      • Yep, they get incensed when they get proven to be liars, huh?

        My ex would leave our house going to “_______’s house” to “hang out and chill”…12+ hours would go by without a single txt or phone call, and if I tried to contact him, he wouldn’t answer…Over the course of a year, he did this about 12 times…the last time he did it, almost 18 hours had gone by without a word from him, so I called his parents and told them, within an hour he was home angry at me that I called his parents!!! No apologies, no explanations— that time, he said he went to a hotel room (never told me which one or showed me a receipt or anything) and had a “melt-down” crying a trashing the room to vent out his anger at his grandmother being on her death bed at that time-

        Even now, if I were to ask him, he would say the same thing- he just needed a night out with his friends, would get drunk and would sleep on their couch(es).

        Lies, lies, lies.

    • Wow!!! Now that’s a tall tale!!!

      The Evil One (ex-) told me- the first time he stayed out all night without a text or call, that he had gone out to a FB group’s meeting at a nearby fast-food restaurant (Funny, never noticed said group on his FB page, but whatever) and that he remembered having a few beers, then the “next thing [he] knew, he woke up in his truck on the side of the highway”… I was such an idiot!!!

      Almost a year-to-the-day later, he was leaving me. I found out that he had told his parents, and other friends that we were divorcing, that I knew all about it, that I was “OK” with it— all lies!!!

      • Yeah sounds like my ex wife and her “weekends with the gals” ..had to be the whole weekend because there was gonna be drinking and no one wanted to drive. (Was never a problem for 24 years but overnights were now completely necessary..every weekend for several months. I was so dumb, but trusted her lol.)

        • Yeah, exactly!!!!

          When we were together the first 10 years, IF he ever went out with “the guy(s)” he would usually get back within limits- drunk or not…asshole, liar, cheater!!!

  • These two quotes resonate because I’m currently reconciling with my cheater wife:

    Situational truth isn’t changing your mind — it’s changing your truth.

    They don’t agree with your version of reality because it’s yours,

    It’s eerie how she senses when I’ve let my guard down and she starts her gaslighting. I refuse to buy into her bullshit and call her out on her evil. She rages and then throws a pity-party because I “refuse to communicate” and am being so mean to her.

    Um… When did the truth become negotiable?

    • BNM:

      Exactly!!! During our “reconciliation” period- he had already moved out, but didn’t have the money to get his gas turned on for his water heater, so what does he do? Comes back and tells me he is “sorry he hurt me” and ended up staying with me for about two weeks before I threw him out…during those couple weeks, I would try to get the truth out of him about things he had said and done, but it was always, “Let’s not talk about that- it’s in the past….Why don’t you believe me?”

      The truth was right there in front of me, I knew it then, just wanted to give him one more chance to prove to me that he was what he wanted everyone to think he was…

      Go with your gut- you know the truth, be cautious, and don’t let anything being considered “negotiable” undermine your decisions…

  • My xH was also health-conscious! He sneered if I took Advil for a migraine, from the birth control pills I insisted on taking (my bad), since he refused to get “castrated” by a vasectomy–until I finally got the tubal. I was not disabled by migraines–that’s what the Advil was for, and it worked every time–that and coffee, which he also hated. He derided me for “only working part time” while raising our 3 children, and used it as justification for not sharing “his money” with me. I was neglectful for working full time at the end of our marriage, when the kids were older.
    Then he left me for an unemployed, childless alcoholic who guzzles energy drinks.

    Life is so much better now!

    • Miss Sunshine you’re not alone. I was accused of being an addict because I wanted amorning coffee drink every day. He wasn’t addicted to ANYTHING… (said in a morally superior voice) but was drinking gallons of Mountain Dew a week which has as much, if not more, caffeine as coffee.

    • Miss Sunshine

      After raising three children working minimum wage jobs,never spending a cent on myself for years while getting my degrees over seven years he was furious when I bought clothes and had my hair done. He expected me to give him my money and support him.
      He gave up his business as I was in my toughest year of grad school and I had to file bankruptcy. He left me for an uneducated drug addict with an arrest record. The truthfulness is they end up where they belong. She doesn’t make money. WTF. She’s gross.
      I’m so greatful to be here.

      • Heaven forbid we do a thing for ourselves, he’s stuck now with his demanding whore and I’m free to be me, I never ever did for myself, ever, everyone else, yeah, me no. I’m working on that how to take care of and be kind to me.

        • Kar Marie…hugs to you!!! I hear my life echoing in your post. I also want to fix and take care of everyone else. Self-righteous cheater sucked the life out of me until I stopped listening to the lying, has lighting, projection…finally had the courage to kick him out and divorce him (divorce was final on 9/1). Couldn’t give up his 30-year younger co-worker. I will never be anyone’s 2nd best…NEVER!!! He can have her and her BPD behaviors. No more kibbles from this woman!

    • Miss Sunshine, SarBear, Lina, and Donna:

      Rock on!!! Keep on being awesome!!!!

      mine sponged off of me for almost 13 years- I have a college degree, have had the same job for almost 20 years, yet he only has a GED from a jail house, could never keep a job for long, and can’t support himself at all.

      I can’t tell you how many years I had to go without even a hair cut because he sucked so much money out of our account, but always managed to get to the barber’s shop for his wanna-be cop/military man look!!!

      He would berate me for not eating healthy or exercising, but he (the diabetic) blew up to almost 500 pounds at one point and has zero self-discipline.

      His new wife, the OWife, is a 20-something college student and works part-time for her daddy, part-time college student and gets a huge amount of child support from her ex-

      Hes 37 and still can’t support himself.

  • OMG the last few columns are so incredible. The more I read I get more up set. It doesn’t matter how much we learn from CL & CN if we dare to talk or share what we know about these bast@rds we do not make sense for them. That is why CL says: Do not f@&ck with stupid. It breaks my heart when I read some of these stories some of you hold it for decades! 🙁 . I am suffering too but, I rather have a bastard that leave & do not come back that keep holding for GOd knows how long. it took me a year to start writing in here. I still can not give a lot of details since I am afraid of the “big brother” and I am afraid he can figure out that me it is me. But my cheater pants can go to the Vatican and become a Saint next to some crazy cheaters of yours. God bless you CL & CN. It is true cheaters are pathological liars if you meet someone new again & you find out he/she is saying a “white lie” do not mate. My cheater is lying all the time and as I read here 50% or less is true. He even lie on his FB post just to get attention from the whore nation.

    • FC, they cannot stop lying I am telling you now. My ex is now looking for work overseas and he has reduced his birth date by 2 years. He has also left 10 years off his resume and that is the time from when he left school until he supposedly started work. He actually worked in a financial institution job and he got sacked for misappropriation, so 44 years down the track he is still trying to hide his past. He is also lying on his FB account and a blog. He is covered in teflon and I know in my heart he will get away with his lies and deceit. I just know it.

      • Misappropriation can result in a felony charge. Does going overseas mean they can’t see his record or that he doesn’t have one? People can try to hide a lot of things, but a criminal record is usually pretty hard to hide from an employer.

        • SueB, no he never received a conviction/record for his wrong doing. My point is that he always seems to be able to do and say whatever he wants and just walks away with a trail of destruction behind him. By the way, everybody back then blamed me for his actions because they said that he was too nice to even contemplate such a thing. I had to have planted the idea. The 1st time I actually got the guts to tell a close girlfriend was only 5 years ago and I just felt the weight of his guilt lift from my shoulders. I spackled over everything for that POS and now he is just laughing at me with our 2 adult kids. I will be spending another Christmas alone without them. I doesn’t seem quite fair but it is what it is now.

    • I, too, try to be careful about cyberpublicness, so I feel you there. It’s great that we can be here even though we have to hold many of our details back. Mine was a techie, so I worry a bit more there, but it has been a long time for me now. Yet, I still feel wary.

      • Makes me wonder about cyberpublicness in the hereafter…if nowdeadhusband is in purgatory, do you think he can read my posts? Fascinating thing to contemplate

        • Unicorn, our nowdead husbands/wasbands have had their internet plugs pulled. They do that in Hell, by definition. We are safe to shit on them as deserved.

          • In all truth, I want him in Purgatory to eventually go to Heaven after his very long debrief is over.

            There is one particular day (Aug 30, 1991 – our 5th anniv) where he pulled a stunt and if my suspicions are true (and he hooked up with someone) I am hoping that he sits on a time-out bench in Purgatory for a LONG time.

            I had just given birth to our 9 pound 10 oz baby after enduring the pregnancy alone since he was deployed. We had 2 little kids and we moved that day…packers were destroying our belongings as I cleaned the entire house. He was tasked with getting rid of a propane canister…he was gone for HOURS and returned WITH the canister.

            My chump-self has learned that multi hour absence to do tasks that never got done are code for “I was fucking someone”.

            As his wife (since the Church, unlike him, had not declared out union invalid) his soul was my business and I tended it well. I prayed for his soul and I think it made a big difference. I may be the only fabulous wife in history who believes God striking her husband dead was a good and timely idea.

            I want him in Heaven with the knowledge that I have requested to never ever interact with him. I dont love him any more and Im furiously angry but I dont want him in Hell.

            • We differ there, Unicorn. My ex who passed after so much abuse and taking damn near everything he could from me, and going on voluntary leave for his “stress” so he wouldn’t have to pay me anything after harassing my employers until they let me go. Well, when I heard that he’d died a slow and horrid death after public humiliation and another divorce and probably having to pony up a buttload of cash to settle the lawsuit he caused that got him fired, well, no, I don’t want to see him in heaven. Anyone who will ask your supervisor how many of the partners you have slept with, just to see you lose your job, isn’t going to heaven, ever. And the answer was none, ever, in my life.

              • Survivor, wow, the abuse you suffered sounds familiar, X has taken everything from me and is now claiming disability again so he won’t have to pay me
                This is something he does each time we go back to court when I find out he is back to earning a lucrative income.
                It’s a vicious cycle. I refer to him as Satan, he’s relentless doing whatever he can to humiliate and destroy me. There would no feelings of sadness if satan suffers the same or similar consequences as your X. He’s vile, disgustingly cruel and deserves to suffer.
                (I had written more but I accidentally erased it)

              • brit and unicorn, I understand you both. The important thing is to look after yourselves and not worry how your ex will fare. Their welfare is not your problem anymore. Trust me on this one little thing. Live well and fully, and let that be your victory over torment. Your triumph over evil. Enjoy every sunrise and every sunset. Every bird song, every chattering squirrel. Every happy child. Every kind word. Fill your life with so much joy that it forces the lingering bad bits out. Love to you both, and please have the best New Year Ever!

    • Fico, even in the Vatican there is shady bullshit. And their most recently made ‘saint’ – Mother Teresa – was a narcissistic evil bastard too. And yet so so many people will give you the filthiest of looks for saying that.
      ‘Goodness’ doesn’t come from words, or religious creed, or pretend mindsets. It comes from actions and altruism. Nothing more.

      • Wow. I never knew that she supposedly denied people pain meds because “There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ’s Passion. The world gains much from their suffering.”

        • Mmmmm, there is more to this than meets the eye. Christopher Hitchens had a major axe to grind with her for reasons of his own.

          I know her hospices weren’t high tech, but what amazed me is that they were there at all. The Indian government wasn’t in any hurry to provide free, accessible health care to its poorest citizens. It’s worth remembering that she put homes where there was nothing at all. Is really average health care better than no health care at all? I think so.

          I work with an Indian man who, although a Hindu, used to work with her, and he had nothing but praise for what she did.

          There’s also a book by a woman doctor who became one of her nuns, but later left. She had criticisms of how things were done in some places, but as far as I recall she didn’t criticise Mother Teresa herself.

          • My comment got eaten, so I will post it again:

            LolaGranola:

            Using blunted needles that are being reused without being sterilised, no pain medication, forced baptisms upon the last act before death (when not everyone is Catholic and has their own beliefs, or doesn’t believe that horseshit) is “average care”? Right-o. As a specialist, I find this absolutely fucking disgusting. Not even in the worst countries would this be deemed “acceptable care”. Nor is it ethical. There was a case where a 15yr old boy who was in her care – who could have easily been treated as a hospital. Instead, she allows him to die in hell because she couldn’t be fucking arsed taking him to the hospital. All because she thinks that poor people suffering is ‘beautiful’ or some crap. Wasn’t aware that a hospice was a goddamn fucking concentration camp!

            Plus there’s the small but not insignificant fact that this woman was receiving millions of dollars from people – all of which was squirrelled away in bank accounts, or released under the reasoning of building more places to preach her bullshit. Why was none of this used to provide acceptable care to her patients? Wasn’t kibbles, thats why!

            I won’t even get into all the “abortion is evil no matter what, even with rape and incest!!!!” and “contraception should be banned!!!!” shit she spewed – shes shoving religious nonsense down the throat of non-Catholic people with that.

            Also, there is another fact – she was supporting known criminals. I cite this letter, written to the judge of the Superior Court that she wrote:
            howgoodisthat. wordpress. com/2008/07/13/charles-keating-gave-other-peoples-money-to-mother-teresa/
            (Remove the spaces)
            She speaks of “not mixing up in business or politics” yet her letter is doing precisely that. Way to go, she gaslights too!
            A response is written on behalf of said judge, quoted on the same page.
            Why is it not surprising when she is called out on her bullshit – that she stays silent? Isn’t that the VERY SAME behaviour which our cheaters pull? Yep, I thought so.

            Know what the most hypocritical thing of all is? She treated people like utter shit – yet when she herself got sick, she received care in one of the best hospitals in the world. Can we say in a chorus, everyone? HYPOCRITE.

            You can have an axe to grind with 1 person, LolaGranola. Thousands say otherwise, that she was a piece of shit, evil and a goddamn fucking narcissist. Notice your example of a book was written by someone indoctrinated into probably being quiet? Much like how the child sex abuse cases here – they all cover for each other and lie about their horrific deeds.

    • I find myself being more open about specifics as things proceed. If the snake ever did recognize himself, would he admit it? Mr. Got Five Minutes?

      Nahhhh….. He’d fume and steam and maybe hopefully blow a vein in his head and end this mess.

  • Hyperfocus on one or more body parts is a porn/prostitute addiction red flag. Healthy people who view others as valuable humans don’t obsess about small sections of others’ bodies.

    • Asswipe is only interested in building up the arms and chest for alpha dog show. Cares nothing for the fourty pound belly.

    • That’s very interesting Ami! Missed that sign, along with the sudden request, when I was about 40, to shave my pubes. Gawd, I was so clueless. Pretty sure he was paying for sex, and definitely watching porn.

  • I remember my now ex standing up with a microphone during our beautiful, perfect wedding reception and making a speech about how much he loved about me and how thankful he was to have me in his life, etc. I smiled through it, but recall feeling this odd feeling of disbelief. He was never this loving and open with his emotions when he was alone with me. It was all for show. Totally phony romance to impress our family and friends.

    I felt guilty about it at the time. I thought “What’s wrong with me? Everyone else can see how wonderful he is. He’s expressing his feelings, and I’m being cynical.” I never told anyone about these feelings, of course. I played along.

    Now I can see that my gut was screaming at me like the Amityville Horror house: Get OUT! GET OUT!!

  • I married my best friend. We had been through a lot together, he loved me and had my back. Right?
    So when I used to ask him at periodic intervals when my gut was screaming at me ‘is there anyone else’, he would answer ‘no, there isn’t anyone else’.
    Because the day before he would tell OW ‘my wife and family are coming into town, I can’t see you’, and endure her jealous hissy fit.
    Therefore he was telling the truth because at that moment, there was nobody else.

    The other truthy things he used to do, was fail to mention. So I was only negotiating with a fraction of the knowledge. Also, allowing me to believe what I concluded. ‘Why did you buy two identical pieces of jewellery? Oh, is one for your sister?’

    It is amusing now I am in the land of Meh and trust that he sucks, but at the time I honestly thought I was going mad.
    I was so distraught finding out about OW and the cruelty and contempt of that betrayal, that IC asked me if I wanted to admit myself. Nobody has the right to f** another person’s head in like that.

      • Two weeks after D-Day, my ex’s infamous attempts to explain to me why he told me and everyone he met, every day up to D-Day, how much he loved, adored and respected me (so much so that he insisted on referring to me as “Mrs. Kelly” to anyone to whom he mentioned me)….all while carrying on multiple affairs and group sex for over 15 years:

        “I do love you, I did love you, I never planned on telling you because I always just thought we would be together. But now [that I caught him], I think I love AP#1 more and am going to marry her.”

          • Did that Survivor, actually my 100-pound-soaking-wet mother came in and had the locks changed when I was still in that hopium stage of “wecanstillbefriends.” She declared that if she found my ex homeless and begging for food in the center square of our town she would “step right over him.”

  • My cheater told me he had “situational ethics”. I thought, mistakenly, that this meant that he would not go out of his way to hurt someone’s feelings with the truth, but soften the blow, but still be truthful. Oh, how wrong I was and spackled the hell out of it. Should be renamed, dumbdumbchump.

    • WhatAChump2015, your cheater might have read some stuff in a college ethics class, or looked to find a way to rationalize his narcissistic view of the world. Situational ethics is not a good thing. Ethics are supposed to be absolute. There are exercises about who to throw out of a lifeboat if there isn’t room for everyone. Would you torture someone else to avoid torture? The idea of most people who speak of that is to debunk the idea that one should put their own welfare first and let all others suffer. But some take it to heart that saving themselves at all costs is best, and live that way. I’m sorry you happened upon one of those.

  • I am very sad today because I found out my 11 year old American Eskimo named Della is critically ill and may not live the week. We are hoping she makes it to see my daughter (who is teaching in Italy and flying home tomorrow for the Christmas Holiday). From the time Della was a baby she was a bit vicious and quite overly “protective” of me, my ex and our children. We were told by the “experts” we consulted, including a doggie shrink ($325 per hour!) to consider putting her down when she was little, but my ex and daughter refused. Yet after ex left he never asked about her once. I suppose his concern for Della when she was a puppy was an act, just like everything else.

    Della may have been a somewhat vicious and bipolar dog, but she adores us her family, sleeps at my feet, and follows my every move with loving eyes. I literally can see her smiling when we her family are around. Her loyalty had never wavered for us, never. Even now when I speak to her, she wags her tail and smiles at me. She is presently sleeping peacefully at my feet.

    This was all so sudden that I was unable to decide what to do. My new husband told me to bring Della home so she is surrounded by the family she loves until we see how her medicine works and so our family can be with her if she passes.

    She is a better and truer soul than my ex could ever dream of being.

    • Kelly, dog love is true love. Our rescue golden retriever is so much better since he chose us to adopt, as are we. When we brought the little one to the new house, he rested his head on my shoulder and drooled buckets because he was so thrilled to not be abandoned again. Fur children are not lesser children. Our thoughts and love are with you and your family.

    • That’s so sad Kelly. We fall in love with those fur babies, knowing our hearts will get broken one day. I hope she can make it to the NY, and see your daughter. Hugs to Della, you good girl!

    • Aww I hear you about the pup. My ex wife left me, our daughter, 2 cairn terriers and our cat we have had for 13 years. Happily in Cheaterville with her AP. One of the cairns passed away so I got my daughter a rescue Shih Tzu. One good thing to come out of her leaving is I threw out the kennels she always insisted they sleep in, now I get the one surviving cairn and she gets the shih tzu and cat on our beds. Everyone’s happy. Hope your daughter gets to see her precious puppy this Christmas. Take care

  • Oh is this ever true in my dealings with my ex-

    About six weeks after my ex- moved out and started dating his now wife, I got a FB message from a girl claiming to have had an affair off and on with my then- husband. We swapped phone numbers, and everything she told me he told her about me, was actually the truth- but instead of claiming responsibility for his actions, he claimed that I had done all of the bad things— so like I told her, “Yes, he’s telling the truth- well, half truth- HE did all of that, but put it on me. I know for a fact that he’s telling the same “truth” to any and all that he encounters, It’s mind-numbing…

    So like Obi-Wan once tells Luke in Episode 6 of Star Wars, “So, what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.”

    Luke: A certain point of view?

    Obi-Wan: Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

    In my case, from the minute I met him and up until now, and even until the day he dies, the “truth” of what he says will ALWAYS depend on a “certain point of view”

      • Yes, Survivor, in my opinion it sure as hell does!!!! He lied on me- about a wife, a mother, a person…he twisted everything up to make him look like the hero and me the zero…

        thank you, Survivor!!!!! God, he sucks…

      • Crap, I meant to say that what I meant by the Star Wars quote is how HE presents his “truth”- that he “meant it at the time” and the “tone of how I said ____________” is all he sees or feels as the truth…God, he sucks…

  • SarBear, it is horrible that you had to go through that but I almost wish you posted every day. Your ex’s brand of absurdity and the way you convey it make me laugh every time. I’m still laughing over “I had to cheat because my wife wasn’t a runner and wouldn’t take a load in the face.” That one ought to be immortalized somewhere.

  • Basically, it’s all just another way that people with poor character lie.

    Seems to me that what they do – blame-shifting, lying, etc. – takes up way, way, WAY more time, energy, and pain than working on improving themselves and the world around them.

    So, I am going to go ahead and call stupid on these people.

    I am serious, I think that they’re genuinely less intelligent than those who actually exercise self control, empathy, restraint, and good judgment.

    Look, if most of the cheaters being discussed here had shown the same style of thinking and behaving in a business context working for me when I was managing large numbers of people when I worked in corporate, I’d have put their asses on an improvement plan and likely fired them within a year. Lying? Shirking responsibility? Blaming other people rather than digging in and getting shit done and delivered? And getting people to seriously dislike you in the process? Sorry, that takes a special kind of stupid… the kind that ought to be fired…

    And we can fire them, by the way; that’s called serving them divorce papers.

  • My ex’s moods determine his truth. Particularly, whichever girl he happens to be sleeping with/pursuing at the time.

  • Ugh. Yes. Truthiness. After I made countless demands for full disclosure and openness about the ex’s “friendships” in the interest of building trust during reconciliation, he found a most truthy solution: make PARTIAL disclosure of innocent facts, while intentionally leaving out the most important ones.

    He would make a big show of introducing me to female friends who were actually legitimate friends, while actively hiding the ones he was fucking, or trying to fuck, or keeping in his net of potential fuck buddies. It APPEARS like full disclosure…after all, only a really honest, open guy would bother introducing me to any of his female friends, right?!

    And because he was being such an honest, open guy, whenever I would question any of his partial truths, he’d say that the reason we lacked trust in our relationship was because I was so jealous and possessive and unforgiving of his past “mistakes”. This while continuing to do things like being on a gross affair website, meeting women online and seeing them in person, routinely lying to me about where he was and who he was with, etc. Extra points for truthiness + gas lighting/emotional abuse combo!

    I’m still digesting the epic mind fuck that was my relationship. It has been 3 months since d day, and I’ve finally accepted the ugly truth: I fell in love with a pathological liar, a serial cheater, an expert gaslighter and abuser. As I try to pick up the pieces of my life and figure out how the hell this all happened, I would like to say a big thank you to CL and CN for all of the insights, humor and sanity injections!

  • Oh heck yes. Left me thinking, “Ok…does he ACTUALLY believe this shit he’s spewing? Because, if he doesn’t, he’s a flat-out gaslighting monster…but maybe he doesn’t know how destructive that is…or does he? Or what if he’s right…” It was sick. *I* was sick as a result of going through it. It was the most horrifying thing I’ve ever undergone to realize there really are people like that in the world–and that the world goes out of its way to protect them! Ugh.

    Fortunately that was the beginning of the end. Don’t let anyone convince you to stay ignorant and confused and quiet because that just feels more comfortable for them.

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