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Apologize to Your Cheating Husband, Says Quack

If people ever think I made up the Reconciliation Industrial Complex, that it’s a wee bit overstated, consider this misogynist piece of crap that ran in the Daily Mail. “Want to win back a cheating husband? You must first eat humble pie,” says “respected” marriage therapist Andrew G. Marshall. (The “G” must stand for gaslighting.)

The Daily Mail tells us this is the “most unexpected” marital advice we’ll ever receive! Oh I doubt that, Daily Mail. This is really just a slightly more unvarnished bit of the same ol’ same ol’. How chumps need to make the marriage a good place to be. How our inadequacies drive people to cheat on us. And how, gee, it may seem hopeless, but if we just up our kibble game, we can WIN A CHEATER BACK! (Second prize — an all-expenses paid trip to Darfur! Third prize — a lifetime supply of rancid meat!)

So what do you got, Andrew? Lay it on me.

Here, I show how, with a bit of honesty and several servings of humble pie, women can begin the process of reviving the most unsalvageable marriage and win back the love of a cheating man.

Oh yum. Humble pie. Tastes distinctly of shit sandwich to me, but when you dress it up like pie that sounds so much nicer. I can make people — even really despicable people who are abusing me — LOVE me? And you’ll sell me the secret? Tell me more Andrew!

The first step towards recovery needs you to commit to change. And while you’ve probably said you are sorry a million times before to keep the peace, have you made a full apology? This is one that acknowledges your unhelpful behaviour (eg taking him for granted), accepts your responsibility (you’ve been so wrapped up in the children you’ve forgotten to be a wife as well as a mother), expresses sorrow and a determination to change, and is sincere.

So it WAS me all along? It wasn’t blameshifting? Goshdarnit, I’m the problem? You’re entirely correct that I never made a full apology to my cheater for paying off his debts, and financing his career move, and marrying him in front of assembled friends and family, all the while he was cheating on me. Yes, I was unhelpful, it’s true. When he threatened to kill me, those protection from abuse orders really fucked with his job security. Did I forget to be a wife? I was only a wife for six months when the mistress called, so I must’ve really sucked at that wife thing. She predated my relationship with him by about 20 years, so apparently I was sucking at wife and motherhood back in my teens. But I’ll work on my sorrow about that, Andrew. And my sincerity. I promise.

In particular, do you need to apologise for nagging, a habit that could be destroying your relationship?

“Nagging is the repetition of unpalatable truths,” said Baroness Summerkill. Did I speak unpalatable truths to my cheater sometimes, such as “YOU’RE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!” and did I insinuate that he needed to stop that? Yes. Yes, I’m guilty of that. The truth did destroy my relationship. That’s on me.

Acknowledge that it must make him feel constantly criticised. Promise not to nag again and that he should say something if he catches you doing it. Though it is tempting to add an explanation for your nagging, it can sound as if you’re excusing yourself and therefore lessens the power of your apology.

Ultimately, if your husband thinks you spend the majority of your time complaining, nagging or getting angry, he will feel that all the joy has been sucked out of your relationship.

Well, here you’re really on to something, Andrew. My ex-husband DID complain that I was angry, and that’s why he wasn’t sorry about his cheating. It was my anger — my anger at his cheating… that made him cheat. Um, that’s still confusing to me, but I don’t want to sound like I’m excusing myself, or lessening the power of my apologies for being angry. I own that was angry. Like gut-him-with-a-fish-knife angry. Or stick-his-head-on-a-pike-for-the-village-to-see angry. Or implode-into-a-state-of-paralzyed-depression angry. I only did the last one, but I thought about the other two.

My cheater, however, was everything you said he should be, Andrew. Every time I nagged him (stated unpalatable truths), by God, he caught me at it and spoke up. He said shit like:

  1. You should be medicated. I’m okay with that.
  2. How can I be sorry when I feel defensive?
  3. You need a beating.

I know he said these things, because I wrote them all down to remind myself to leave him. I didn’t have the benefit of your wisdom back then, Andrew, to wit:

Don’t ban contact with the other woman.

You write that women need to “stop being so controlling” because then “he’ll feel distrusted.” Yeah, I know it’s crazy, but I don’t trust people who cheat on me. And my spouse having side-dish fucks brings out the edgy bitch in me. I get all high maintenance and demanding when that happens. But it could be the PMS too. You know how we edgy bitches get. Never know what’s going to set our hormones off.

Don’t complain if he moves in with her.

Yeah, I didn’t get to try that.

Meet her yourself!

Or that either.

Andrew, for years I wondered why he was such an asshole. Why he felt the need to cheat on me. But today you explained it to me in a way that makes total sense… if I’d had a lobotomy.

“Why has he fallen out of love with you? You put the children first… Your sex life has lost its spark.”

I didn’t have a kid with him, and we had a lot of sex. He was never not cheating on me, as it turned out, so apparently my sex life must’ve lost it’s spark around date #4 or something. I don’t know. If sex was so dull and lifeless, why did he ask me to marry him? Can that be his fault?

If your husband feels that you don’t love him, he can start to feel entitled to look elsewhere.

Yeah, turns out he was never NOT looking elsewhere. But I guess I never told him just how much I cared.

One partner – probably your husband – is feeling ignored, a second-class  citizen in his own home.

Only probably your husband? Are you sure about that? I think you think it’s my ex-husband that was feeling like a second-class citizen. But Andrew, I assure you if there was any sitting on the back of the bus, gender apartheid going on — it was me folding that bastard’s underwear, and cooking his dinners, and not questioning his spendthrift habits. He got the bigger cuts of meat, the best parking place, and sex when he wanted it.

But I didn’t cheat on him. So WTF Andrew?

You mustn’t panic. This is the worst thing you can do. More marriages end because of a wife’s panic than a husband’s determination to leave.

Now you tell me! I could’ve made that creep leave if I’d panicked? I couldn’t get him to leave me the fuck alone! Instead I was all strong and stiff-upper-lippy and left him on the sly. But if I’d lost my shit more dramatically, he would’ve been more determined to leave me? Good to know, Andrew. Women’s panic ends marriages. Not infidelity, folks. Panic.

So who is this Andrew G. Marshall? Apparently he has no educational credentials whatsoever, his therapy education being reduced to time spent at some charitable organization called “RELATE.” Yeah Andrew, and I’m a “journalist,” because I print flyers and stick them under people’s windshields.

I don’t think Andrew G. Marshall is real. I think he is an elaborate bit of performance art. Consider the evidence. He’s inflicted his books on the public in 15 different languages, one of which is “Make Love Like a Prairie Vole: Six steps to passionate and plentiful sex.”

And he’s a self-described playwright, author of such famous works as “Coffee Cantata based on the music of JS Bach which toured coffee shops in West Sussex.”

The coffee shops of West Sussex! Christ, that’s as good as La Scala. This has to be satire, right? He’s having us on, or taking the piss as you Brits say.

andrewmarshallquackAnd can this picture be for real? Andrew G. Marshall looks like Voldemort with British dentistry. If I were to play armchair shrink, which I can because Andrew does too, I’d peg him for a malignant narcissist. A pathetic megalomaniac who can’t get laid, Prairie Vole-style or otherwise, so he has to blame women. For their anger, and not loving him enough, and their stupid, big mouths. 

Idiot publishers give him a voice, because he taps into the infidelity zeitgeist, which isn’t radical but the same old blame the victim shit that’s been around forever.

Somebody please keep in him the coffee shops of West Sussex and out of the newspapers. The world doesn’t need any more cheater apologists.

This column ran previously. But feel free to be outraged again in the comments.

Ask Chump Lady

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  • By the looks of him, it seems a scorned wife hit him upside the head with a sack of shit! This knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing reprobate needs to be beaten with a 2X4 with nails driven through it. Or at least have his fingers removed so he can’t write bullshit like this.

    BTW, I’ll take third prize – rancid meat is better than a cheater any day.

    • I was thinking he would have been better off to publish a picture of rancid meat rather than that smug narc mug. Bleh. I want to kick him in his bad teeth for thinking that crap much less actually putting it in writing.

      • My darling x, love of my life, I apologize for spending too much time looking after YOUR four children and being a bit sad about my six miscarriages in five years, unsuccessful surgeries, and paying off your debts. That didn’t even get me the cheater back. Asshat. Hope she ruins his pathetic little underachiever life. Wanker.

    • WTFH? Rancid meat with maggots! Just reading all that BULLSHIT pissed me the fucking hell right off. All that shit is what the cheaters say! Blameshift, gaslight, manipulate, mislead, omit on and on and on BUT hey, you cheated on betrayed pathetic hideous house-coated old hag mother spouse, YOU look the other way if he’s still seeing his std ridden skank-a-rola! Shhhh! Not a word if he moves in with her either!

      Just WTF? I don’t even have words to beat the shit outta this sick ass piñata. GAH!!!

  • OMFG!!! The look on his face is the same look cheaters display when you confront them with the real truth, and you don’t swallow the “humble pie/shit sandwich” they’re trying to force down your throat. What a wanker!

  • Right all my fault cause i was born happened across him at 29 fell in love he asked me to marry him spent the next 27 years devoted to him and our kids. Many many good years till he started his own business he stopped nurturing stuck his head in the sand for a few years and when he came up for air sniffed out strange and left. He always got what he wanted always. But his successes in life his glory not i took care of the house and kids and kept them busy so he could do what he wanted while working full time and helping him with his business, his dissapointments, my fault, its raining, my fault, one of many junk cars wont start, my fault, dog threw up, my fault etc. Now i have to start completely over at 60 again my fault. I know tracy doesnt promote violence but i have fun with it. The author of this article should be taken out back and shot at dawn along with all the cheaters and anyone who causes harm to others for self gratification and includes the pods these pods cheat with. Thats my thought and um sticking to it. Apologize to the cheater! Ha! Good one today tracy i spit my coffee all over and my brindle got to help me clean it up. Hes a little wired now but way better than the company of asswipe.

  • WTF?!??

    I just can’t… This guy…

    Ah ha! Maybe it’s the opposite of CN. It’s Narc Nation and he’s their representative? Give me your liars, your cheaters, your misunderstood jackasses! An excuse for every late work night and an OW in every bed! I’ve figured it out.


  • Megalomaniac who can’t get laid- Bingo! My thoughts exactly. Oh, how the world needs another Doc Dickhead spewing misogynist garbage to excuse cheating . But wait! He forgot to tell us to apologize for getting older, too! If we just wouldn’t age they wouldn’t have to go looking for tight little twatwaffles have their age.
    It really IS all on us. Every bit of it. 😛

    • CD – I’m with you, Doctor Dickhead is right! I had a visceral reaction to reading Doctor Dickead’s swath of frothy vomit! And some people wonder why we might have feelings of violence? We don’t commit those acts of violence (even though the cheaters commit plenty of violent acts), but how can anyone not rage against this nonsense? Hideous words of “b-advice.” I’m bettin Sweet Jesus even rolled his eyes.

  • I bought TWO of his books. I read them religiously. I underlined the important bits so that cheater ex husband wouldn’t have to waste his precious time reading all of it.

    I guess the books really helped me, though. The ex always had an excusewhy he was too busy to actually open either book. His failure to do so was part of what made me realise there was only one person trying to save our marriage. I’m happily divorced now.

    • Wait, Swede-Chump—-you asked him to read the books? Well, that would have been nagging, and nagging is explicitly forbidden. Now, we know why your strategy didn’t work! I am sure if you had just followed Mr. Marshall’s advice more carefully, your straying EX would have abandoned all of his lying, stealing, cheating ways and returned home so you could rub his feet, peel his grapes, write odes to his wonderfulness, and abase yourself before him as proof that you were a good wife.

      What a tragedy that you had to divorce him and live a happy life instead.

    • I was an amazon chump too. Read all the books and I gave the ex the cliff notes version because “he didn’t even like to read about things he enjoyed.” Yup, epic chump here. I own it. Not anymore. I kicked his entitled, illiterate ass to the curb and I now enjoy a fucktard free life!

      • CS, I bought audio versions so cheater ex could listen to it since he spent a lot of time on the road for his job. I still shake my head when I think that I actually wanted to be with that douche bag.

  • WHY must the chumps be the ones to apologize? When is it the cheater’s turn to do all the groveling for the marriage? When do they realize the ramifications of their actions?
    I truly despise the notion that “had I been the best person possible” my husband would not have done what he did!! Some people make decisions that make themselves alone happy and then start viewing their spouse as the reason for cheating. Blame shifting happens because they cannot possibly be the terrible person they truly are; it MUST be my SO’s fault.

      • Pretty sure this is just clickbait to get pageviews via outrage. And he doesn’t even seem like a real person…more like “Andrew G. Marshall” is one of those fake monikers to represent a team of writers, like “Carolyn Keene” (Nancy Drew) or “Franklin W. Dixon” (The Hardy Boys). Still, even if he’s not real, the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach after reading his bullshit is real. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        • He was trained by the British national counseling service. I honestly think they have a national policy to encourage marriages to stay together at all costs. Their taxes are high and social mobility is more limited. If they encourage break ups, broken families may end up on the dole. And their country can’t afford it.

          My STBXH’s OW is a divorced Brit. He had a fling with her and she would not go away. Blackmailed him, told him she was having trouble supporting her kids. He refuses to see it for what it is. He loves being the knight in shining armor, buying things for her kids that their father supposedly can’t. Thinks she simply adores him.

      • Agreed ChumpLady – Voldemort is bloody twisted. He’s also a fogazzi.

        Cheaters are always trying to find love – the rest of us are just trying to love the one we found.

    • I have never seen a book or an article designed to help a once cheating spouse to reconcile with their partner.

      Just getting back to that schoolyard bully theory…….

      • I have…at The focus is on how to help the chump heal. I was all for my husband doing those things, in order to prove he valued me, our marriage, our children. But he just kept proving he wasn’t a unicorn and expecting me to eat the crap sandwich as he complained about how I kept bringing up the past, and how he hated to have to spend time with me, and how he wasn’t going to apologize again (“Sorry, then!”) or admit to everything he’d done. I can hardly wait until I’ve saved up enough money for the divorce, now that the bankruptcy period is about over.

        • Oh, I had that double-decker shit sandwich, too! Divorce, and bankruptcy, fun, all at the same time! 3+ years later, I’m still paying for ‘our’ bankruptcy all by myself. That’s OK, I live up to my obligations, and I have enough to afford it, but Jeeeze- he can always be counted on to be irresponsible! I will sure be glad when the bk is over. If I could go back 35 years and tell my young self a secret to happiness, it might be “make sure your life partner can keep a job, and handle money. Life will be so much easier!”

    • While in ‘Pick Me Dance Mode’ with both STBX and ex-boyfriend (oddly a fellow chump and friend of several decades) who I dated after STBX left, I apologized for anything I might have done (cried too much over tragedies (e.g, terminal illness, chronic injury in my family), not cut the sandwiches at a diagonal?) to make these guys unhappy enough to stray/decide to leave the relationship. Result: my face (figuratively) got stepped on harder. (Still baffled about why they didn’t express their dissatisfaction (desire for cake, wimpiness, passive-aggressiveness?) before the relationship blew up one to ten years later.) I must keep telling myself that, not financially and physically, but at least emotionally, I am better off without these less-than-honest losers, even if they look like great father/husband material to most of society.

      • Rock Star Wife, that’s ex to a tee. All for show. That’s what people don’t get, you never really know a person til you are in a long term intimate relationship. And I’m not talking about sex. I mean really seeing their character. Or lack thereof.

  • Oooh, click through to his website. New picture with SOUL PATCH/GOATEE hybrid. All he needs is a fedora.

  • Now I feel the need to apologize to the serial cheating pathological lying narcissist. I was lost.
    Yes, I am guilty of going upstairs and spending two hours rocking a child who was teething at a party I was hosting. Once she calmed down I DID catch him in a bedroom kissing my best friends sister. Those dam teeth got in his way. Two hours? A screaming child? Guilty as charged. Linda was my fault after all.

    And being pregnant was a real killer too. Marshall, he got crabs after his first child was born and was cheating with a MOW during the second pregnancy. Bringing her to the hospital and my home afterwards was rather entitled I must say. I now know she too was pregnant at the time. Somewhere there is a guy named Mike who raised someone else’s child for six years until he died. Should I take responsibility for that also? I did after all nag when my child was seeing a heart specialist. Guilty again.

    He wasn’t getting attention when I was working three jobs to buy a home either. Karen was the solution.

    So many women. I sucked at the child care thing. I should have spent my time soothing the man who never developed instead. No worries, he is where he belongs now. The children did get in the way however he no longer sees them. They do come in handy for supply now and then.

    I’m so very happy to know I’m responsible for making him into an entitled narc. I guess it is my fault he’s living in a dump with a classless raging bar whore, losing his business, depressed with rising debt, and no way out. I’m just a selfish nagging bitch. I dumped him.

    • Donna – I probably get this as well as anyone. Never look back. You did what grown-ups and caring parents are supposed to do. Unfortunately, you married and stayed with an entitled, irresponsible, and unappreciative POS. I did too (though my POS was a wife).

      That said, I am so grateful for the lifetime of memories with my children that are stored in my mind that make me smile. They are like favorite books I can open any time get lost in over and over. I am so proud of myself for the father I was to those kids – and it has been the privilege of my life. I’m sure you feel the same way.

      You miss out on those memories when you stay up at work at night during the years your kids are growing up fucking your boss on top of your desk or on the washing machine in vacant apartments. In the end, we won.

      • I agree. I have the equivalent of a FaceBook NewsFeed in my own head, filled with all the memories of the good times. I can hit “Like” at any memory and revisit it. My Ex’s loss. When my children and I get together we laugh and review not only memories but hopes and dreams for the present and future. I’m sorry my Ex has no memories.

    • Donna, your nags are extremely powerful. I am duly impressed.

      I think you should join the FBI or X-Men or Gotham city council and put those powers to good use protecting the innocent, good people of this earth.

      • JK I have absolutely no regrets doing what mattered to me and it’s my chikdren who are thankful for every sacrifice I made in hindsight. They were my strongest supporters during the divorce and see him for the the narcissist he is. I won in the best way possible. And he threw upin the washing machine. Nothing worse than a drunk cheater. What’s up with the washing machines?

        Buddy, my super powers gave him just what he asked for, a divorce. Feels good to wear my cape.

  • Wow wow wow, this I why I hate the daily mail, the paper that coined the term “council estate face lift” after a woman campaigning for justice for her murdered nephew was on a low income and had a tight pony tail.

    This is also why I hate relate, he organised our MC and it was the shittest experience ever. I walked out

    • MidlifeBlast, I concur.

      The Daily Mail AKA The Daily Fail.

      As for Relate, anytime I hear anyone mention it, it’s quickly followed by the disclaimer: “It doesn’t have a very good reputation, though.”

      No wonder with jokers like Marshall-Voldemort as a counsellor.

  • This is the most disgusting piece of garbage. It’s so infuriating. The audacity. Oh I’m so mad because this is how these filthy cheaters really feel.

  • This UBT has got to be one of your best chump lady!!!! Laughing nearly the entire way through it. What a great morning laugh. He’s so far gone even the Reconciliation Industrial Complex would think he’s nuts. The best part “panic” could end a relationship. Oh man. Your response about if I’d only panicked he would have left me alone. Love it. I need to save this for future laughs. And the picture. Icing on the cake. I’m considering this my “cake” this morning. Well done.

  • I watched a psychologist talk about the most dangerous people on the planet and that they have a look of contempt. He has that exact look! Very scary!

    • Yes Chris!! He does have that look of contempt. He also has the look of a cross between Austin Powers and Mini-me.

  • Voldemort with British dentistry – that made my morning!

    I have an article titled “The 10 most desirable traits in human beings” that I share with my children – regularly – to remind them about how the choices they make determine the kind of people they will become. At the top of the list – integrity. Here’s what we read:

    “The true definition of integrity comes from the Latin word integritas, which means “whole” or “intact.” It encumbers all the traits that make a truly “good” person, such as honesty, being incorruptible, straight and morally upright.
    A person with integrity won’t lie, will keep their word and won’t screw you over. They won’t go behind your back, badmouth you, go after another person’s partner or cheat on you, and they adhere to a code of ethics that may make them predictable, but safe to the heart and one’s sanity. No unpleasant surprises come from someone with a high sense of integrity. They follow a code of ethics that tends to be, as the word suggests, incorruptible, and they adhere to principles of common decency.”

    So Voldemort with British dentistry falls VERY short on the measure of integrity.

    • I found that article…excellent advice and a great thing to share with children! Thanks

  • Wrapped up with children, and forgotten to be a wife, poor neglected cheater feels I don’t love him, he feels entitled to go elsewhere.., it’s inevitable, don’t nag and whatever you do, you mustn’t panic, it’s the worst thing you can do, so many marriages end because of a wife’s panic than the husbands determination to leave. WTF??
    Darn, what was I thinking? no wonder Cheater cheated, I’m guilty of all these faults and more.
    Yes, Unicornslayer, the look on Andrew’s face is the same look cheaters have when confronted with the truth. By the looks of his nose, teeth, ears and shape of his head I think he’s been beaten and hit upside the head with a 2X4, I can’t imagine why..,
    Could Andrew really be married? love to see who this lucky women is.

  • Way to go, CL. As you always say, if I was such a bad wife, it would have made sense for him to leave. Cheating – deceiving, sneaking, risking my health, being sexually aroused by getting away with all of those things – and staying married to me, that behavior doesn’t make any sense, unless the actual goal is… Yep, cake.

    Entitlement much, Andrew?

  • This article is just baldfaced bullying. It incites abuse by encouraging targets of abuse to have no boundaries at all, to welcome the abuse, to nurture the abuse, to aid and abet the abuser.

    • Ye Gloria, imagine if it was domestic violence “whatever you do, don’t react to the hitting, or even mention it. Don’t panic and let him carry on as much as he wants, you may win him back!!”

      • Brilliant. “Just keep apologising through your bloody broken teeth while you’re curled up on the fetal position on the floor. The repeated kicks to your skull and subsequent loss of consciousness is no excuse to stop you from really expressing how very sorry you are for not living up to his important expectations. Jaw and tongue too swollen to speak? Crawling to the fridge and making him his favourite sandwich can buy you enough time for the blood in your mouth and the swelling in your throat to subside enough so you can get down to the urgent business of apologising to him and offering to go pick up his much-preferred-over-you girlfriend and bring her to the house and getting your ugly toothless face out to the garage to sleep, so they can share a six pack and screw on the sofa. Remember how lucky you are that this very important man is even in your life.”

  • The UBT is really getting an amazing workout lately, CL! I’ve coined the last few posts “pretzel logic week!”

    It is so useful to remember that to an entitled cheater, the loss of cake eating feels like oppression. Therefore, the cheater will expect and work super hard to restore the previously unbalanced, deceitful (and oh so kibble-rich) state of the relationship, and hide better the next time around.

    If new chumps come here today, welcome to the club no one wants to join! We all have felt the pain of our life imploding before our eyes, the confusion between who our spouse turns out to be (as opposed to our hopium-filled perception of who we thought our spouse was), and the incredibly difficult task to divorce a cheating liar. The pain is finite, the confusion clears through No Contact (NC), and the divorce proceedings will end with a hefty price, but remember, many have paid a higher price for their freedom and self-respect!

    There are no good options when you find out you are married to a cheater, especially when you bred with a cheater. You either leave a cheater and gain a life, or you stay married and teach your kids that selfishness, deceit, and lies are acceptable spousal behaviors.

    I hope you will choose you, and read CL’s posts and CN’s comments to prepare for your cheater-free life!

  • I can’t even get through this one! I just couldn’t believe it, so I had to read the original article. OMG! ? It’s real! Then, as I scrolled down, my three-year old saw the author and asked “Why does he look so scary?!” as I’m reading the Voldemort comment!!! Hilarious!

  • Don’t complain if he moves in with her???? OMFG!!! Why would Anyone want to pick me dance to “win the love of a cheater”. Jeezus

  • To me, this sounds like it was written for wives in the 40s or 50s because they were instructed (and responsible) in many ways back then on how to keep their marriage alive and intact because divorce was frowned upon. Hello asshole Andrew, come back to this century where women have choices, are decision makers, have their own income, and divorce lying, cheating narcs.

  • Ex-cheater, if you’re somehow out there reading this, please accept my sincerest apology. I did forget to be a wife to you, so busy with our kids, um I mean our cats since we have no kids. How neglected you must have felt in those 30 to 60 seconds it would take me to feed them. I can’t begin to imagine your pain and I accept the fact your penis needed relief from the stresses that a wife-and-pet family constantly placed on you. Please leave OW and come home. Mr. Noodles and Tinky say how meowy much they miss you.

    • “Please leave OW and come home” sounds a touch naggy… Remember, you mustn’t panic if he moves in with her.

      Seriously, though. Love it!

      • Excellent point, I hadn’t thought of that.

        “Dearest darling, stay as long as you need to at Schmoopie’s house. The cats and I continue to soldier on. Tinky’s therapist explained that her tracking of litter outside the box caused you an unbearable need to ask friends to hook you up with random blondes. Tinky says Meow/Sorry.”

        • Can’t stop laughing. Now I need to wipe the computer screen after I just spit my coffee on it after reading this. I know your apology is as sincere as a cheater’s remorse.

        • GOYSACA,
          Thank you for this response. I’m clinically depressed (suicidal much of the time) and briefly cry at work every day (while with good students), but your little vignette made me laugh!

  • OMFG!!!!! I couldn’t even finish reading this tripe. How can anyone write drivel like his? I’m so glad I never got sucked into the RIC. I did the pick me dance for the first 2 months, but then found Chump Lady. You saved my life. People like him would have killed me. Wow, they suck.

    • I just stopped by that Amazon book page, down voted the good reviews, up voted the bad reasonable reviews and lefty a more honest review that could use a lot of votes to bring it to the front page. That one star review needs your vote and hey, maybe you’ve read some of the guys stuff have a review to give ?

      • Thanks Dat!

        That was easy and fun. In five minutes I created a review, voted the five-stars as “unhelpful,” and insulted Marshall. ?

  • Ugh, I really, really dislike this guy. Along with Mr AND Mrs Bercht ( Beyond Affairs) he was for a while my only source of advice post D- Day- because of the RELATE connection. I didn’t buy his books but read his website articles and watched his YouTube offerings.

    I always felt there was something of the snake oil salesman about him. It’s all that continual self promotion. And smugness. After CL’s post here, I thought I’d check out what he’s up to now. Well that face-it’s still leering from his website and Twitter account.

    And here’s the measure of the man -his tweet for 22nd March (yes – day of the Brussels bombings) is to retweet a Guardian interview from 19th March with the widow of Charlie Hebdo cartoonist Georges Wolinski and add:

    ‘You don’t just need to love your partner but tell them. What better way than post-it notes left around the house.’

    See how insensitively he hijacks someone’s grief and memories (of yes, her husband’s notes) for his own own tawdry business. And with no seeming irony of using the Paris attacks on the day of the Brussels atrocities.

    I really think he’s on the dark side, together with the cheaters he supports.

  • Oh god yes. It’s ALWAYS, ALWAYS the woman’s fault when the husband cheats. And it ALWAYS because “You put the children first (sorry for being an adult and taking care of the kids)… Your sex life has lost its spark.” I was waiting for it…waiting for the cheater’s ultimate ‘go to’ excuse, “I wasn’t getting enough sex.”

    When my divorce was final and I started meeting single men…every.single. one. who admitted to cheating said the exact. same. thing. to the tee. AS if it’s a valid excuse for cheating even if it WERE true…which I highly doubt in most cases. It certainly WAS NOT true in my case…homewrecker A would be very surprised to know that we were STILL active right up till the night before he left. (thanks douche for exposing me to STDs)

    When one of these fuckwads tell me they cheated and it was because their wives wouldn’t have sex with them, my thought is “yeah, I don’t believe it, but If it is true I can certainly SEE why she wouldn’t”. As in the case with the smirking, author of this trash, he’s a true pimple on the ass of humanity

    • You should have apologized for feeding the babies.. Apologies make it impossible for cheaters to cheat, it’s like using garlic on vampires.

    • Fact is though, if those cheater-fuckers actually offered sex which was intimate and satisfying, their partners might actually want to have it with them? But its all about them and their selfish needs.
      And jesus fuck, (TMI alert) if they aren’t getting enough sex from their partners (whether its because of differences in libido or just that the cheater is entitled to more than is physically possible) they have a hand and a fucking imagination. But they of course can’t have that.

  • ^^^^ absolutely BBCheater

    Also is that the best photo he has , cause he looks like a ….. Ummmm …. Looks like a….. Loooooser…. Oh shit … I must stop that , because anything negative about him might make him…. Might push him …. To be a……..A cheater…… And that would be my fault…. My bad!

  • Nice red flag of an article. I hope his wife reads it so she can stop nagging the poor guy so he’ll stop cheating on her.

    I just have one question that he didn’t really address… Should the betrayed person apologize before they catch the cheater, or after?

  • I tried “eating humble [shit] pie” in the immediate aftermath to salvage our marriage and he just used that as more ammunition for why he was entitled to cheat. Cheater: “See! Even YOU admit that you suck, so I need more time to reflect and evaluate how your faults led me down this path.” (I apologized ONCE AGAIN for something that wasn’t entirely mine to own because I thought if I ate the shit sandwich we could move past it. Nope, it just kept it alive.)

    No one that knew us doubted my adoration or devotion to him, so nope, he most definitely didn’t feel unloved or undesired. And there was no shortage of sex, most of which I initiated.

    As for nagging, yeah, I’m sure it got annoying hearing about how much our son needed his dad, and how much I needed a partner while raising an infant on my own while he lived in another state and put on a show about trying to get a job locally. (“Blah blah blah teething, blah blah blah two hours of sleep on a work night with no sick leave left, blah blah blah postpartum depression…you’re so needy! Here, let me deal with your nagging by screwing this married co-worker and being even less present than I was before.”)

    And pray tell, Voldemort of West Sussex, why is it that chumps must grovel in apology and demonstrate continuous change, when we are simultaneously told to accept a cheater’s apology at face value, move on, and not make a big deal of it?

    Me: “I said I was sorry for that argument 5 years ago that resulted in me being mad! You’ve acknowledged that I have never responded that way again, so can you please move past it and stop using it to justify your affair?” Cheater: “Wounds run deep, how can you expect me to just get over it?”

    Cheater: “I SAID I was sorry! How many times do I have to apologize?? Why are you so angry still? This is why I won’t stop seeing her [OW].”

    The double standards of presumed responsibility and of demonstrating remorse are staggeringly blatant, and it still pisses me off to this day.

  • I don’t stop by CL as much as I used to, but on a whim this morning I decided to check in as I still enjoy the precision of your UBT.

    Back in the early 90s, shortly after my now ex and I had our first child and prior to my knowledge of his cheating, I felt that our marriage was not quite up to par. We had been married about 5 years and I noticed that my then husband was becoming distant and uninterested in our relationship. His activities revolved around his interests and there was little including me. He only wanted me around when he wanted something from me…

    My attempts to talk to him were immediately shut down. His response was that my roll as a wife and mother was to take care of him, the kids and the house because he was working to support us. (Apparently his happiness alone was at the forefront of the equation.) What he conveniently over-looked was my huge financial contribution (I paid off the mortgage) which allowed us to live comfortably as a young married couple. When we started having children we decided that I would quit my job and stay at home with the kids because we could afford it. Anyway, I suddenly became the maid instead of his partner — he stopped doing anything that he felt was menial because he “worked” and I didn’t.

    I asked him to go to marriage counseling. He refused — he didn’t have a problem, I was the one with the problem. I went to counseling alone. The first thing I was told by the psychologist was that marriage counseling requires both spouses attending in order to work… Secondly, I was asked if he was physically abusing me — no, but he had the habit of demeaning/belittling me. The advice I was given if I wanted the marriage to work (which I did!): Don’t be a nag. Don’t rock the boat. Pick up the slack and hope he comes around to appreciating me.

    Ironically, I didn’t nag him to begin with. I was very self-sufficient. All I wanted from my then husband was for him to show some interest in me as his wife – the woman he supposedly wanted to be with, not just the “hired help”.

    So, after a few sessions of counseling by myself, I was basically instructed to be a good wife, keep my mouth shut, and hope for the best because it could be much worse… Fifteen years of walking-on-eggshells later I found out he had been cheating our entire marriage. In hindsight I know now that that psychologist did me a great disservice. She failed to identify the signs of emotional abuse.

    Five years after our divorce I was still reeling and trying to figure out how I could have been so blind to what was going on right under my nose and my self-esteem was down the toilet. It wasn’t until I found CL that I realized I had been the victim of a narcissist. The road to Meh was long and winding but I made it there. I hope the people who find your website will take heed and find their inner strength to break free from their cheating spouses. It’s not worth wasting your time, breath and energy to “save the marriage”.

    • Your story resonates on so many levels. It’s so damaging to go for professional help and advice and get a quack who enables your emotionally abusive spouse. So glad you found Meh. But just goes to show that once a chump gets decent information about infidelity and what causes it, we are mighty enough to save ourselves.

      • It was discovering the cheating that was the deal-breaker for me. I did give him the opportunity to cease and desist but he just couldn’t do it. He just got better at concealing his “side hobby”… I wasn’t as dumb as he thought and when I found out he was still up to his antics, I filed for divorce. After having spent half of my adult life with him and being a good wife, I was done. I refused to waste any more time with him. Wife #2 can be the lucky one who wipes his ass and changes his adult diapers. The divorce was brutal but I am happy to be free of the bullshit.

  • Lol, what a schmuck.

    My ex, after having been caught having dozens of affairs, tried to get me to stand in front of the dresser mirror in our bedroom and ask myself if I’d done everything right in the marriage. I guess the only ones allowed to complain about a cheating spouse are the ones who’ve been perfect. Yeah, okay, well, if I’d cheated every time HE wasn’t perfect I’d be the whore of Babylon.

    Where the fuck do these ass wipes get the idea that perfection from the spouse is the only thing that gives them the right to expect fidelity??? Oh, yeah, I forgot… Perfection is something NO ONE can achieve, therefore, it guarantees them the right to cheat. Well, not the “right”, but you know, a good enough reason so that they’re just humans who were backed into a corner and had no other choice but to look for someone who actually worships them properly.

    Mr. Marshall can take SEVERAL seats.

    • “Yeah, okay, well, if I’d cheated every time HE wasn’t perfect I’d be the whore of Babylon.”

      LMAO Lastinline, but really, based on Esther Perel’s theories, if you cheated every time HE wasn’t perfect, you would be the freest spirit, and the most self-actualized, happiest, and sexually fulfilled person in the universe… Wow what a missed opportunity… NOT :)!

  • What did you say his book was called? “I Was Raised by Prarie Voles?” That would make more sense.

    • I suspect Prairie Voles are the only ones he could talk into bed (hence, “Make Love Like a Prairie Vole”). However, strange choice of an animal for his views, since prairie voles are largely monogamous* (which means Andrew still has one in his bed–it wouldn’t leave after he seduced it).

      *caveat: about 35% of males are non-monogamous and don’t form social units or pair bonds. Just like cheaters.

  • i feel sorry for any chump who comes across this kind of shit. but with advice like that out there i can see where cheaters get off feeling so entitled. if i hear one more person say it is ok to cheat because they weren’t getting enough sex I WILL SCREAM! is that the only reason they got married? is that the only thing that matters after years of raising children and building a life together? what are they, frat boys? to me that is the most insulting thing someone can say, it diminishes the ENTIRE relationship by bringing it down to something my neighbors dogs do in the backyard. guess some people never evolve.

  • A man writing about how a woman should win back a cheater… did I just wake up in the 1950’s?

  • “Yeah, okay, well, if I’d cheated every time HE wasn’t perfect I’d be the whore of Babylon.” LMAO!!!!!

  • The other thing that pisses me off about the mainstream approach to cheating is that we chumps did something to deserve it and can therefore adjust our behavior to solve it. What that completely leaves out of the narrative is that cheaters blame, project, and inflate because it is convenient to their narrative. They manufacture reasons, and even if those issues are addressed, it doesn’t solve anything because they will shift to other manufactured reasons. The objective is to HAVE A REASON, not to solve anything. If there is no obvious reason, one will be manufactured, because conflictive dissonance is uncomfortable, guilt is uncomfortable, and consequences are uncomfortable. How much easier to just say that there is something wrong with us (chumps), and then try to hold us at fault when we fail to fix the nebulous-thing-that-cannot-be-identified-or-solved? The problem is that there NEEDS to be a problem, not that there actually IS a problem. Confusing? Welcome to cheater logic.

      • I’m with you on that one! My ex’s reasons kept changing…when she had reasons to give. But eventually, she gave up on any actual problem. Instead, she complained of amorphous dissatisfaction about our relationship.

        As you say, she needed to create a problem. But the last thing she wanted was for me to solve it. So, better to leave the problem vague and undefined.

        Hide the ball, and no one can play your game.

  • I get so angry at the assumption that I must have been a nag or neglected my husband for my kids. I hear that a lot, that guys feel neglected for the kids. That is so much goddam bullshit. Raising kids is HARD, life is HARD. I was a fantastic wife and even if I wasn’t fantastic I am still worth love and respect.

    • Guys wouldn’t feel neglected for the kids if they’d get off their asses and do some fucking parenting, instead of sitting there pouting for a tuggie while their exhausted wife tries to wrangle kids and keep the house from looking like a bomb hit it.

  • Andrew G Marshall looks like the offspring of a mad science experiment. I imagine him writing his books and articles in a dank basement with bats hovering around him. I can’t imagine him being married, unless he’s married to Miss Piggy.

    His face and writing style are both freaky.

    • The really, really sad thing is that Andrew G. Marshall is undoubtedly balls-deep in somebody at this very moment. Such bitter bunnies we are; trying to be decent human beings.

  • But he MUST be legit – he’s a PUBLISHED AUTHOR!!
    (Of course, it’s lots easier to be a published author when you self-publish (Marshall Method Publishing)


  • I’m embarrassed to admit that I apologized to my ex repeatedly in the first month after D-Day. I was sorry I wasn’t more patient, better at housework, more willing to put up with his cruddy jackhammer sex (with no consideration for my pleasure). It didn’t work. In fact, after a month of apologizing and trying to be the better person that I thought could “win him back” he told me that I was a “fucking miserable person who makes everybody around me miserable.” So I stopped trying and let her have him because if that was the prize I was trying to win then no thanks.

    More than 2 years later and I’ve given up on getting an apology from him. He never did anything wrong, he is perfect and justified in every shitty thing he does to people. Good luck in your new marriage to OW. You can’t run from your own repugnant personality.

    • How can you be anything BUT miserable right after d day? I guess you should have turned that frown upside down and choked down that shit sandwich with smile on your face. “Thank you sir. May I have another?” Gah

    • Strawberry Jellyfish,

      I heard very similar statements from my STBX and my last ex-boyfriend.

      Every once in awhile, I remember my STBX giving me a daily progress report (score on a scale of 1-10 and comments) on a ‘wife worthiness report’ he kept on his computer after he admitted to cheating on me.

      My ex-boyfriend, at first hint of breaking up with me, told me that I had done nothing wrong but later, at official break up, told me that I made him ‘want to run away.’ I was deeply hurt as my greatest happiness came from making him happy and I wanted to marry him after 30 years of what I thought was friendship. A New York minute after dumping me, although supposedly he has a trunkful of baggage (his words) incurred from abuse from his ex-wife, he is escaping the shackles of commitment to a woman (me) who would sacrifice herself for him to immediately search for The One (and probably have sex with as many women as he can convince). He tried to make himself not sound so bad by saying, ‘I don’t cheat on my partners. (Therefore, I’m dumping you.)’ It seems a bit hypocritical as, several years ago, he was an OM to another guy’s fiancee. I realize that people screw up, but it seems a bit disingenuous and self-serving to promote yourself as virtuous in a certain way if you are not.

      For the first time in my half-century long life, I am afraid to date anyone. I don’t believe that all men are dishonest, unfaithful, and non-committal, but, unfortunately, many that I have run into are.

      • RSW: “I remember my STBX giving me a daily progress report (score on a scale of 1-10 and comments) on a ‘wife worthiness report’ he kept on his computer”

        Unf**kingbelievable. If that isn’t a sign of hubris and considering that other people are here for your own means, I don’t know what is. Glad you’re rid of him. Mind you, most of our cheaters probably had mental tabulations that led to their assessment that we sucked so much we deserved to be cheated upon, but to actually write it down is homicide-worthy.

  • Wait what? So because a man’s wife wasn’t making him feel loved and bahl bahl bahl then he should be able to get by with anything then right? Shouldn’t he be able to rob, steal, and kill too? Because it was his wife fault she drove him to it by her nagging.

  • This is creepily reminiscent of those pickup artist guys. You know, women deserve to be punished for being the fairer sex and men never have to be held accountable for any of their actions because EVOLUTION! It’s so misogynistic my tiny lady-brain cannot comprehend. I think I need a break, my uterus hurts…

    Seriously though, can we get away from this fucking narrative of victim-blaming. You want the wife to allow co-habitation with an AP AND you want the wife to meet and play nice with her?! Are you fucking kidding me? It’s called a harem…what you want is a harem.

  • He’s got to be taking the piss out of his readers.

    Either that, or he’s so narcissistic that the Daily Mail runs him to take the piss out of their own readers for taking a guy like this seriously.

    By the way, did you notice how he assumes that cheaters are always men whose wives have somehow failed to measure up, and thus forced them to cheat? I wonder what his advice would be for men whose wives have cheated on them.

    Anyway, it’s articles like this that make me glad I found Chump Nation very early in the process. In fact, it was the first website that came up when I googled, “my husband is having an affair, what to do.”

  • He looks like a soccer hooligan – has that smug/nasty look. What a tosser. And no, I won’t be apologising for that:)

  • If you go on his site every article written about infidelity includes the burning question? What part we chumps should take responsibility for!! Well guess what Nothing!!! Accountability in Marriage absolutely! But to my knowledge when I took my vows, infidelity was NOT included! I was NOT invited to be part of his AFFAIR (before , contemplating it) (during,actively doing it) ( after ,when it should be shared) !! NOTHING justifies cheating! PERIOD!!!

  • Hey,



    Okay, I did not cheat BUT

    My Ex…..

    1. Did not pay attention to me, he prioritized his sports/friends/hobbies/business.
    2. Did not show affection to me.
    3. Got a Gut. Lost all manners.
    4. Started shaving his head bald when he had full head of hair. Don’t I hear men complain about our shorter do’s? They met us with long hair. That type of crap.
    5. As time went on lost not only his manners but any civil social skills.
    6. He whined, complained and nagged AT ME!!! He was nasty and cruel.
    7. He refused sex with me (why? because he was already having it).
    8. He did not play his part AT all in no way shape or form, we held together because of ME period. Our business was because of me, the house ran because of me.
    9. I am blonde (was), thin, big blue eyes and really attractive especially for my age. Always being hit on. It was not ME that let myself go. I walked miles a day, he sat with the remote farting.

    I did not cheat. He did. And do you know WHAT he cheated with??? Well my STD will tell you!!!!!!!

    The only thing we need to do as the Chump is EXIT.

    To the author I say you are a FUCKTARD.

      • That article was actually very helpful to me. I feel I now understand my husband much better. He actually has always been a people pleaser, and knowing that his low self-esteem is what compelled him to do what is clearly wrong makes it even more clear that you just shouldn’t be with people who are so phenomenally screwed up. Any normal life event could cause them to cheat, because they don’t know how to communicate or how to express their feelings, or any other method of dealing with life. And kudos to him for pointing out that women cheat because they are sad, lonely, and feel unloved. That’s why I also cheated, right? No, wait, I didn’t. I was tempted and often daydreamed about being with someone who actually loved and cared about me and our children, but I couldn’t do it, because that’s just not the kind of person I am. I wouldn’t be able to face my children, if they knew about it. I wouldn’t be able to feel like a person with integrity.

        But I already knew that he wasn’t an honest person and his morals shifted easily. I just gave him too much credit, in thinking he wouldn’t betray someone who kept forgiving him and giving him extra chances.

        Now I know I have to keep working on myself and my self esteem, because I want to know at all times that I am indeed a high-value woman with a lot to offer–not a forty-something, used-up, unsexy, bitter, boring fat woman who’s not even a good servant. The kind of person that says, “I’m sorry, that issue is something you’re going to have to work out by yourself. I’m not going to accept excuses or make excuses for you out of compassion. I’ve been through all kinds of abuse and hard times, but I treat everyone with respect and love, and if you’re around me you need to do the same.”

        I’m pretty far away from that–struggling not to become a bitter bunny–but that’s my takeaway from that. Be the best you can be and expect the same from people in your life. Injured people can keep injuring other people, and make excuses for why it’s okay, and I don’t want to be among them. So while a lot of what he said there is plainly bad advice, I will take what I learned from it.

    • I like that list, Jackie!

      ChumpLady: Maybe we need a post devoted strictly to chumps and all the things that made our cheating spouses less than perfect! I mean, they seem to have a million reasons for their infidelity; surely the chumps should get the chance to showcase the shortcomings of the cheaters, too, although if they were here, they’d have a million reasons for why their imperfections shouldn’t count against them. Still, sounds like fun.


        • Trust me, I saw it and enjoyed it.

          But it said:

          “So, in the spirit of Taking Out the Trash, what are the three douchiest, most awful non-infidelity-related things you won’t or don’t miss about your ex?”

          I’d like to see a post where we get get to REALLY dress them down and pick them apart, top to bottom and from the inside out, the same way they do to chumps when they’re caught and need to find all the reasons why we didn’t deserve a faithful spouse. Nice long lists like Jackie made. Let’s show the world all the imperfections WE still didn’t cheat on THEM for.

  • This whole line of drivel reminds me of what ex said to me on our 10th wedding anniversary, which was 2 months after Dday “It wasn’t what I did, it’s your reaction to it”. Really? I should have reminded the ass that usually bringing your whore in our house to babysit our children has often resulted in death….

    And someone needs to duct tape this fool who wrote this mess’ fingers together….anyone want to bet he’s a cheater himself?

    • What is it with these types and being genuinely confused by the fact that other people will react to, and have feelings about the things that they say and do.

      Like 3 years ago I was in MC with my STBX. He was saying that he felt like he was so stifled in our home because I was always having emotional responses to things and he couldn’t be himself because I was always having all these emotional reactions. The MC – who was pretty good – just sat for a second and said “Yes M. People hear, respond to and remember the things that we say and do. Our actions and words have impact on people and we don’t get to just dismiss those responses because they are inconvenient.” He just sat there looking confused, like he had never heard of such a thing.

      There was a bit more back and forth and finally I said “so let me get this straight. In your world, you get to behave ever how you want. And no matter how horrible it is, or how much it upsets me, I have something like a 30 to 45 minute window in which to process my feelings, tell you about them, allow you to probably dismiss them as irrelevant, and then I have to let it go. If I miss this window, or think about something for a while and have an issue I want to revisit… well too bad. You had your chance. Shut up and take it. ”

      He said something like “well I can’t live with knowing you are constantly analyzing the things I do. It’s not fair to me to be constantly held accountable.”

      Counselor was like “that’s not how it works.”

      Narc behavior through and through

      • CAGal,

        I’m sorry he treated you like that. The emotional-infant rages and the “we-already-talked-about-that,” shutdown strategy are frequently seen in the wild amongst male humans. It’s not inherent to the male sex. There are some men who are capable of discussing their feels.

        And putting a timeframe on a topic is intellectually lazy. Not all men are like that either, but it’s a convenient and prevalent misogynist excuse for bad behavior.

        “I’m stoic.” No you’re not. You’re an asshole.

        • Thank you for sharing that bit of wisdom, Ian. Glad some people (males included) are evolved and willing to accept responsibility for their own actions.

  • What all these self serving idiot therapists Forget is this!! It takes 2 to make a marriage,BUT 1 to Detroy it!

  • The scariest part of that disgusting article is cheaters will believe it and it will validate their disgusting behaviors and chumps will believe it (in the early days of discovery of the truth) and it will validate their cheater’s disgusting behaviors and bring on the pick me dance and crushing depression.

    …so sad…

    It is so blatantly obvious bullshit and I just can’t believe any rag would publish it. Disgusting. I’m tellin ya we need billboards…and fire ants…NOW. Chumps out there needin to be SAVED. NOW.

    • Hi Jeep, yup you are so right. I mean – no joke – my cheater ex actually copied and pasted sentences from drivel like this in emails to me trying to explain/justify her cheating. I remember she quoted a lot from that looney-tunes Marina Pearson – what a grenade she is.

      • SureChumpedAlot, while I agree we all have every right to our opinions, what the hell is wrong with people? How could any rational human being read any of this crap and BELIEVE it, let alone try to use it to convince some broken, bleeding, half-dead, more than likely praying to die chump that it is validation for their disordered behaviors? I don’t think even the cheater believes it…I think they just hope that we will…and that is what scares me, cause I know I would have in the beginning! I know I was internalizing all the bullshit satan was trying to feed me. I was in hell and he was determined to keep me there. Which is what they all want. Keep a chump free up your life for fun! Assholes.

        Billboards. And. Fire. Ants. Free roaming, pissed off little poison biting insects 😀 Hordes of em. 😀

        • Thats it. These people are not rational. Some of these folks still buy the enquirer news trash at tue checkout.

          • Disordered assholes…

            Geeze there has got to be a way to put a stop to this harmful information! Some way that will not be ignored. I’m still thinkin billboards…advertise THE TRUTH OF THE SITUATION. What I wouldn’t have given for the information on this site (and a helpful 2 X 4) in the beginning! I would have suffered so much less, made much, MUCH, better choices and SHUT THAT SHIT DOWN immediately. Oh there just has to be a better way to get the truth out there SureChumpedAlot…lives depend on it.

            • Also Jeep it would be proudful to see a billboard – “Leave a cheater and gain a life” – right next to an Ashley Madison billboard.

              • Oh ALAS! AM is NO MORE!

                Lol…maybe the AM billboard burns to ashes in seconds – over and over again, along side Chump Lady’s mighty billboard…you know, like it would be a STATEMENT.

        • Jeep, isn’t the goal of education to teach people how to update their opinions based on facts and evidence?

          Hence, when “educated” decide to remain with their outdated or inaccurate opinions despite having the opportunity to update them based on facts and evidence, couldn’t that thought process be considered the definition of stupidity :)?

          From CN’s (and especially Tempest’s) bountiful literature references and many of our own readings and experiences, there are little to no way to justify a choice such as our spouse’s decision to “cheat their way to marital happiness.”

          Leave a cheater, gain a (mindfuckery-free) life, nuff said.

          • Amen Chumptitude! Once I had educated myself on what I was dealing with, I gained a hand hold and started crawling toward the light. But, in my experience, the ‘knowledge’ I found FIRST was that crap! It was not helpful it was hurtful and kept me hostage in a very dangerous situation. Knowledge is power. I got my power back the day I found Chump Lady and you guys. I became mighty when I took my power back. My shattered soul perked up and gathered around me when I finally read what I knew was the truth of what was happening to me.That was the day I knew, even though I knew I would survive. I would get through it. I would walk away. And that is really the truth of it. When you are in the sway of a narcissist you are not in control anymore…you are controlled. You do everything as they would like it done and walk on egg shells hoping they don’t decide they want it another way. That they will be pleased and smile upon you. Yeah…member that Twilight Zone episode bout the little boy that could AND WOULD destroy you if you displeased him??? …yeah…I married him when we grew up. …we all did.The public needs to be educated and have ready access to the TRUTH. Lives are being crushed.

  • My ex husband told me very soon after we separated that if I wanted him back I would have to make many changes. Well, I have not made any changes and I am still the decent person I have always been and he is now shacked up with a 23 year old prostitute at 63 years old. Here was I thinking that raising our kids, running the household and painting the place inside and out by myself, ran the kids all over Melbourne for their sporting interests, was only shown affection when he wanted sex, in fact when I was upset, he could not put his arm around me to comfort me without it leading to sex and I had to be ready all the time or he would threaten he would go elsewhere. I know I was a doormat but in my defence I thought that by slaving my guts out and him never having to do anything when he got home it would prove to him how much I loved him and our kids and would receive love in return. I know what you are thinking, that I was a complete and utter fool and I put my hand up to accept that title willing. I could go on but like many Chumps we were slaves to our exes and gullible at best.

    • Yeah, my ex started that too, really? Know what my response to him was?

      All I can promise you is more of the same and older and uglier. I am the same me then and now. I am me. I am good with good intentions, have my act together. I need change nothing but my status with you. If I could change anything at all it would be meeting you. The me now and the future me is ME just older and uglier. I cannot nor want to compete with 27 year olds at 48. I could not compete with my own self now at that age. I want to enjoy this phase of life as a 48 year old … been there done that young crap. I stopped playing with dolls at 9… get it? Shut his face right up.

      • JD, I am happy with myself, I truly am. I certainly cannot compete with a 23 year old at my age of 64 years and nor do I want to compete. I now like me and I love being 64 and for me luckily to be in good health. I will be fine going forward because I am a strong person. Also, you are not older and uglier. Please don’t think that because I know I did and it is very draining. We are mature women who were married to boys who never respected us and my 2 adult kids do not respect me one little bit because of their sperm donor, hence my estrangement from them.

        • Maree, LOL thanks. I don’t feel old or ugly. My point was that I was only going to get older and as we age in his mind is ugly. Geeze, I lost my hair from this developed alopecia and lost my eyebrows. I wear a wig and paint my brows on each day and never felt more me.

        • Maree, my sister has a friend with three grown children. She is so pretty, sweet, nice, fun, loving, interesting etc.. found he was cheating. She ended it and immediately filed and won house. He moved in with OW who cheated on him and left. He married a 22 year old (she is about 62) who just divorced him… anyhows somewhere in all she was the bad guy and both boys (girl okay) stopped talking to her. It has been years now. Unfortunately, they are their father. So she lost a husband, the idea of the life she had and two sons. WOW. But in all that she is still her and carries on.

        • I am trying to wrap my head around the idea that my ex-boyfriend is now likely chasing women who are 20 years younger than me, much richer than me, more outwardly successful, and unencumbered by children. (Mine are nice but, like any children, require some financial, emotional, and physical care.) Considering his background, at least on paper, and his popularity, he will probably get what he seeks. Part of me wants to compete with 30-year-olds, but part of me knows that I cannot possibly win that competition (I’m in quite good physical shape but can’t instantly or ever become rich and can’t ‘put my children back.’) and thus should give up trying to compete. Trying not to feel jealous and envious. Trying really hard to get used to the idea of being content celibate for the rest of my life (up to 50 more years).

          • RSW, please don’t compare yourself with what your ex husband or ex boyfriend are chasing and don’t even try to compete. You are better than that. You hitched your wagon to 2 a*seholes who have taken an awful lot from you. Like all Chumps you need to start focusing on yourself and your children and getting healthy. I know how hard it is when you love someone and give your all but do not get anything back in return. When someone loves you, they share everything with you and don’t hold back anything and that is also emotional and financial support. Start being kinder to yourself and your children and take it one day at a time. It will get better for you but take your time. Take care and (((HUGS))) to you. x

            • Rock star wife in college my best friend married a very abusive man. I walked her through it, kept her from isolation, and I was the first to really realize that her husband was abusive. I really stuck with her. She shut me out some and I just attributed it to her emotional pain. And they eventually divorced but it took 7 years!! That’s a long time sticking with it. Fast forward 15 years. My husband texts our marriage is over and I texted her. I didn’t hear from her for 3 days and she says she can no longer be my friend. She was a taker. You talk about pain, and this is even before I found chump nation, but I realized right then, that that my picker was broken. Although I did have some good friends, I really had some stinkers in there and I needed to get myself straight. I’ve always struggled with people taking advantage of me and that isn’t good for them or me. I’m trying to learn to surround myself with those I admire and are wonderful. Like Tracy said, it’s ok to be charitable, just don’t marry or date it. (Or be best friends with them either) You are so much better than that RSW!! We both need to just take care of ourselves and heal and heal well, so that when we are whole, we will have so much to look forward to.

              • Kay,

                What a rough ordeal for you! I hope that you are getting away from the abusive and distorted and finding the kind and well-adjusted (or those who strive to be well-adjusted and take responsibility for our actions).

                Nearly two years after D-Day, I am still trying to re-calibrate my picker. I am so accustomed to abuse, I don’t think that I even recognize what is acceptable treatment from a romantic partner. From now on, I am going to work hard to recognize and avoid the non-committal, highly non-communicative (to the point of being dishonest) whose goals, values, and lifestyles are incompatible with mine. My family will be better off if I can recognize wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    • “…I thought that by slaving my guts out and him never having to do anything…” yeah I can relate… It’s hard to hear it from another person… this kind of logic slowly killed me

      • CFF, yes my logic would have killed me also had the ex not pulled the plug. I was devastated naturally when he did because the abuse I was subjected to however subtle, was normal to me and I just rolled with it. I know now that I would or could possibly be dead had I stayed married. I love being free now, if only I never married in the 1st place !!

  • He looks just like Gollum from Lord of the Rings….throatily rasping the phrase “my precious, precious” as he caresses his wedding band.

  • Please tell me this isn’t Brillo you’re talking about! There is no explanation in the world that would make that make any amout of sense!

  • Wow. Beauty AND brains. What a catch. And a chin pube? Tie me down!

    So Nosferatu is giving marriage advice. He has lots of videos, too. I’m afraid to listen to them, they might suck me in. Seriously, he must have charm up the wazoo. I can see him stretching out his hand;;;….Commme to meeee… But then, they’re all vampires, aren’t they? He’s just the poster boy.

    I know I should feel bad about commenting on his appearance, but somehow I don’t. Probably because I know that as a narc he knows he’s beautiful. But it was so startling to be reading the article and then be hit with that picture. I had to look him up to see if that grimace was supposed to be a smile. Apparently it is.

    • We are commenting on his appearance because he is UGLY. He is ugly inside. If he were a good guy, his appearance would not be an issue, he made it an issue so don’t feel bad. He really is ugly, lol.

  • Look Marshall, your logic is convoluted and you know it. Seriously, YOU know the REAL reasons why you vomit this foolishness. Who are you trying to con?

    I was in a marriage that barely had any “nagging”, from me or her. It really seemed we were both “the best we can be”. We would both consistently express our love and happiness – almost daily – I had no reason to think or feel that it wasn’t true.

    The fact of the matter is she was also expressing her love and happiness with another married man.

    My Ex-wife was a shameful covert narc – that is why she cheated – and what better way for her to justify her actions then for her to read utter vile from an anthropoid as yourself.

  • I put myself in the shoes of the cheater. Regardless of all comments above that are spot-on, as usual. Let’s see. I cheated because I am extremely self-centered, I have no concern for others, I am bored and I found a more interesting person who was attracted by me and willing to have some fun.
    The new guy has a great smile, gorgeous eyes, I get myself some action and then I go back to Mister Dullroutine at home.
    And Mister Dullroutine apologizes, acknowledging that he wasn’t funny enough, that he is going to act better from now on, cook better meals, organize better weekends. He apologizes for having done nothing during his 3-month burnout but paint all the shutters. Do I suddenly admit life is going to be much better, and dump the new guy ? I don’t think so. I had no consideration for his efforts so far, it’s not going to start now that I have another person to fall back to. Worse even: if I have a hint of cruelty in me, which as a cheater I am likely to have, I am going to take advantage of this biiiig time !

    Anyway, I was hurting too much, his cheating was taking a toll on my health, I already had too many responsibilities around the house and was not strong enough to play the doormat. I had no choice but stop the nightmare.

  • Have you made a full apology?” He’s absolutely correct; no I did not apologize with sincerity.

    I never told my cheating wife I was sorry for not earning more money. She’s entitled to a life where she doesn’t have to work just like her friends. I realize now that it was hard for her working six-hours a day, four days a week. I’m sorry for providing the money that buys a nice house in a good school district, buys the latest/greatest mobile she’s using to talk/text/video with her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend, buys the car she dreamed of, buys her insurance, buys her food, buys her retirement, blah… blah… blah…

    I’m sorry I demanded she give up her facebook profiles to concentrate on our marriage and our family. She deserves the freedom to spend her days leisurely surfing facebook. I’m sorry for asking for a return text acknowledging she received one of my messages. I’m sorry for occasionally interrupting her daily text conversations with her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend. I’m sorry I left a 30-second phone message while she spent two-hours yakking on the phone with her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend.

    I’m sorry I forced her to lie to me and our children whilst she was carrying on with her affair. She needed to concentrate her positive energies on her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend. I’m sorry she looked at me and our children with contempt when we interrupted her chatting, texting, and phone conversations during dinner.

    I’m sorry I didn’t constantly tell her she was a goddess – despite her poor eating habits, lack of exercise, continued weight gain, and resulting diabetes. I’m sorry for nagging her with the unpalatable truth to consider a more healthy lifestyle so she wouldn’t have as many health issues. I’m sorry she never attempted to look nice or wear sexy underwear around me. I’m sorry she was forced to dress-up for her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend around my working.

    Acknowledge that it must make him feel constantly criticised.” Hold up… Wait a minute… I was cognizant about NOT constantly criticizing her. In fact, SHE was the one who constantly criticized me and the kids for just about everything she could lay eyes on. We walked on eggshells to minimize her inevitable wrath. She was only happy when she was with her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend. If she was forced to turn her attentions to either me or the kids; oh shit! Kids… Your mom found a wet paper towel on the counter! We are at DEFCON 3! Take shelter!

    Don’t ban contact with the other woman.” Fuck that. Not only is there no contact with other piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend, there’s no facebook or any other social media, highly limited texting, random mobile scourings, key loggers, location checks, and recordings.

    he’ll feel distrusted.” Oh… I DO trust her. I trust that she’ll cheat again.

    Meet her yourself!” Believe me, I absolutely want to meet her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend in person. In fact, I purchased a really awesome titanium baseball bat and carefully inscribed his name on it for just that occasion.

    If your husband feels that you don’t love him, he can start to feel entitled to look elsewhere.” “…START to feel entitled…” ??!!

    Gaah! I can’t get through the rest of that utter bullshit… I give up!

    • Guess what? I met the OW. Yes. In fact, she was sitting beside me at numerous dinner parties at my house. OK, I could clearly see she wasn’t a demon but…..seriously….. what exactly is she?

      • Moving forward, just taking a stab here but since she came to your home and sat next to you, I would say she’s a soulless sadist with a black, tar-filled heart. Not human at all.

        • I met my husband’s official AP (not the prostitutes and others). She descended upon me backstage at a venue. Reminded me of (looked and felt like) several vampire movies. One of the most surreal days of my life. A few hours later, she texted me. We engaged in a 90-minute ‘conversation.’ After that conversation, I knew that both she and my husband were both immoral nut cases.

    • “Meet her yourself!” Believe me, I absolutely want to meet her piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend in person. In fact, I purchased a really awesome titanium baseball bat and carefully inscribed his name on it for just that occasion.

      Can I borrow your bat when you’re done? I want to use it on both of them. Don’t bother to wipe the blood off. Apparently exchanging bodily fluids doesn’t much bother any of them.

      • Miss easten has been sitting by my bed for over thirty five years. Has my first husbands essence on it. He came home one night three in the am stinking drunk woke me out if a sound sleep and beat me up. I waited till the next time he was passed out hog tied his ass and beat him with the bat. He still didnt stop. He bounced my head off the dash board a few times later on. Unknown to me some of my west side buddies witnessed this and me being a west side girl they followed him a few days later beat the snot out of him stuck his head in a toliet flushed several times and said they next time we hear you beat up our west side girlie it will be worse for you. He never touched me again. Kept that bat by my bed all these years i havent touched asswipe with it as hes never laid a hand on me but boy was i tempted!

        • I’m sorry, KarMarie. No one deserves to live through a physical abuser, or a cheater. You are mighty for surviving both.

          • Thanks tempest. First husband was a cheater too. Thats why i will remain single cheaters give me ajada. If i can ever fix my picker maybe i will date again but marry never!

      • Blood??!! Why… What exactly are you implying? You see… The piece-of-shit-asshole-cheater boyfriend is the coach of his six-year-old son’s little-league baseball team. I’m merely interested in sharing tips on stance, choke, grip, control, (repeated) contact, and follow-through.

        Except I’ve seen all the dick-pics he sent my cheater wife. He’s pretty experienced already.

  • OMFG indeed. During my futile attempt to win the dance, the ex asked if I was demanding no contact because I wanted to hurt him as much as he hurt me. Oh, poor little forest creature. Why don’t you just go ahead and keep on fucking her? I certainly don’t want to cause you pain. Because she is your second soul mate after all. He actually said to me about her, “We will always be in each other’s lives.” While he was trying to keep me from leaving. ARGH!!!!!!!!! FUCK. YOU.

  • Usually this site is cheering to read but for some reason today’s post makes me feel sick and hopeless. I couldn’t even get through the comments, and those are usually the best part! I’m just so tired of it all, the grief, the cheater, the struggle, the he-wins-I-lose aspect. The asshole’s trip down memory lane via facebook resulted in sex and marriage. Mine, via a high school alumni site, has yielded a sleazy married ex-classmate who emails me in the middle of the night. (No, I don’t reply.) The gods are laughing at me. “Loser” is stamped across my forehead in not-so-invisible ink. Ah well, tomorrow is anuthah day.

    • Oh Fifi, you are having a sad day. We all feel that way too, thus, the roller coaster ride of the aftermath. We are not losers because they chose to be. We are chumps. Chumps are mighty. For all that we lost in this, we can say one thing better to be the chump than an evil cruel miserable person. Bad shit happens to good people. It happened to us. Can’t unhappen it. You got to look at it like a death and this part of our life left is our second chance. We had cancer and are now cancer free. Chest out, chin up.. smile and take a walk today.

      • LOVE your response, JackiesDone!!!! Just what I needed to read today!!!!

        FiFi, I still have days like this too, despite how much happier I am that the “cancer” in my life is gone!!!! (((((((hugs))))))

    • Fifi, sometimes certain posts are too close to home and make me feel like that. Maybe you need some new blood, not crappy old class mates. Xx

      • Thanks, you guys, very much! JackiesDone, I like the idea of a second chance, cancer free. Kaycan, JackiesDone has a way with words! MidlifeBlast, how right you are, definitely need new blood. Movin_on, thanks for the hugs. I needed them yesterday. UnsinkableMollyX, thanks for the hugs and encouragement. Hugs right back at y’all! (Today is definitely better, I’m loving those memes!)

  • What about those of us who didn’t have children when our husbands cheated and were left home alone many nights while he “hung out with the guys”? Why is it that women are expected to swallow criticism from everyone (internally, the media, etc.) but criticizing men is cardinal sin?

  • This advice is also given by some big-time “legitimate” commentators. I was advised by one internationally-known TED talker to write a letter of explanation to my ex’s family and friends to remedy “all the damage [I] had done” during our reconciliation efforts. This damage was reputational in nature; she still had a boyfriend, and I didn’t keep quiet about it. Sorry. Not sorry.

    • Do tell who the TED talk cheater-apologist was; Ian D and I are on a mission to comment on each ignoramus who minimizes cheating (more commenters are welcome).

  • What’s the expression the Brits say…’bollocks’? This is the sort of nonsense that I internalized around the time of DD#1….the sort of flawed logic that says ‘you are not good enough so your partner deserves something much better”.

    Thankfully (now I am divorced & well past DD#2) my line of logic goes like this. IF I am so terrible then why doesn’t he divorce me? Why does he want to stay married? He stays married – not because of some sense of honor – but because I: take care of all life’s details, am attractive woman, give him humanity and make him look good, etc.

    There is only 1 line in that terrible article that is accurate. “Ultimately, the only person we can change is ourselves”. Yes, agreed. This meant realizing that I am not terrible but I did marry a complete fucktard. I am ever so thankful for CL and the CN.

      • Thanks Brits – us Americans need all the help we can get.
        You have such a colorful way of getting the point across without being gross, like us N.Americans (I include Cannucks in this group)

        Actually, I’m very surprised nobody from that side of the pond has defended ‘brit dentists’.
        It’s sort of an insult, don’t you think?
        Maybe another post – sorry for highjacking, but you are all good blokes for putting up with our American attitudes on teeth. We are weird about it. It’s like being blond, but even James Bond has funny bottom teeth for some reason. Hey – he’s proud of them. And, he looks good to me.

        But, he’s a Brit playing and Yank. go figure! lol

        • I think it has something to do with not paying for the NHS directly and feeling a bit cross about (most of us) having to pay for teeth. And our charming eccentricity. I for one am not offended, especially not on that arsehole’s behalf.

  • The fuckrardry is strong with this one.

    No fucking way do I let an adulterous relationship continue. I do not fucking share, asswipe. And anyone that demands I do is fucking out of my life.

    Fuck their entitlement.

    We chumps are entitled to having the promises made to us be kept. Yes, it is that fucking simple,

    If you can’t keep it in your pants, ask for a divorce. Don’t blame me for you being a valueless piece of shit.

    • Sssssssoooo true, SnakeBitNoMore!!!!

      I told him from the very beginning, “If there ever comes a day when you don’t want to be with me, just tell me and go.” Nope, lying bastard had to lie, cheat, and steal rather than be a grown up and tell me the honest truth. If he had only divorced me honest, I could be so much better about how things ended- what I mean is that I wouldn’t still be such a bitch to him if he had only divorced me honest.

  • His photo reminds me of that episode of Twilight Zone where the greedy, uncaring relatives have to wear ugly pig-like masks before they can grab their inheritance. When they take off the masks, their faces have been permanently altered to show their real selves…. selfish, ugly pigs. Andrew Marshall’s picture reveals his inner nature: smug, sneering, narcissistic and ugly.

  • Ooh, I just did that thing where you cover one side of a face with your hand and then the other. Try it with this guy, Brrrrr.

    • Hey y’all— since it’s Thursday, here’s a throwback comment I made back when we were ripping apart Tory Spelling’s cheater husband, Dean. I will apply it to Marshall:

      “Can you imagine his ‘sex face’?”

      Sorry, for the visual but I just couldn’t resist 😉

      • I have just realised that me ex husband had a sex face, YUK. Now the prostitute gets to see it or maybe not because he would be looking at the back of her head !! Sorry for the visual but I refused so he found someone who I know would not refuse his demands. 🙂

          • Sorry, I’m cracking myself up.

            Problem with Voldemort’s O-face is it’s Ralph Fiennes. So, it’s kinda sexy.

            So yeah, would you rather: Voldemort or Marshall? No contest.

              • Maree— oh wow. “Now the prostitute gets to see it or maybe not because he would be looking at the back of her head !! ”

                Quite a visual.
                I’d say, none of us deserve that. That young woman he’s banging on the back end?
                She’s giving him a lot, only hoping to get more in return. $$

                Personally? I like to see the face I’m fucking.
                Then you may get a kiss.

                You are lucky to be out of that. Blessings.

  • He’s for real. I know someone that went to him for marriage counseling. In reconciliation with cheater now.

  • Shall we discuss his expression? Both halves of his face have different expressions. One is serious/insecure, the other contempt? Or smirk? Not sure. Is he two-faced? I know my cheater had double expressions (just like his double life), wandering eyes, and could not look me in the face.

    Also — is dude British or Australian? Cus Australians have legalized prostitution, thus many husbands have lost their moral bearings. A prostitute can and did walk up to my husband and give him her business card, as her pimp, and I, watched. Even religious Australians can be heard to speak of fidelity as prudish and claim that a Clinton scandal “would never happen here”. Which is true — their former prime minister is a serial cheater with married men, a homewrecker.

    Cheating, and acceptance of it, just makes your face ugly.

  • I actually did apologize to my h. His response, “Thank you, you know what an awful place I was in life. I tried to come to you to tell you how lonely I was on my working trips ((airline pilot))and wanted so badly for you to be w me. You just didn’t hear me.”

    WTF??? So you go and have a yr and half affair and tell me if only I had joined you while working this may not have happened!!!!

    Like it was my fault I was home taking care of our son, house, very sick dog, my sr parents, my horrible menopause, health issue… and he wonders why I won’t return… pfffffff!


  • Ewwww, he looks like a gross man-child who probably hits on teenage girls. My ex pig had even worse teeth than that. And such a thin upper lip it was practically nonexistent. What was I thinking?! I laugh when I picture the OW having to kiss him now. hehehehehehehe

  • Pretzeling myself and the “Pick me dance” do have benefits for the betrayed spouse, but not for the reasons this pud writes about. I cried, begged, did a lot of soul searching and acceptance of my (real) share in those short weeks. I wrote long emails and profusely apologized, the jackal lapped up the apologies like his due.

    Fortunately, I had an inkling about no contact, and for the begging, mine had a stopping point (into complete no contact) at about 3 weeks.

    I went back a year later and read a few of those emails, > they were very sad, but you know what? They were honest, or as honest as I knew how to be back then.

    I realized that this was a good thing – for myself. I put myself out there, took my share, owned up to it – then went no contact – at that time hoping for a wreckoncilliation – but still no contact.

    I have nothing, absolutely nothing to feel bad about, nothing left to apologize for as I left my 30 year marriage. If he accepted it, liked it, hated it or ignored it, or it just fed his kibbles does not matter. I put it out there and I left it there. If I cried, so what? Crying was appropriate in that scenario. Anger, fear depression – it would only be natural to go through this…

    That is the only aspect of the pick me dance that I can see as being a benefit – the rest (to entice a cheater back home) is secondary to the internal work that I did in those short weeks.

    I certainly would not feel bad if you went through a stage of this, heck 99% of us go through it. Just keep in mind WHO you really need to communicated those things for.

    • Posting on this guys looks, though an easy target, is in my opinion unnecessary. Picking out his terrible thinking and advice is.

        • Well, to me, the problem is more his expression than his face. He just looks like he has a smirk or something that makes you think he’s a little too smug…

          • Janna,

            I enjoy reading your posts. I was (attempting) to be facetious by apologizing for attaching this bloke. (Which reminds me; MatchGirl used to tell me to hold my hand up when I was telling a joke because she didn’t think I was funny. She sucks.)

            And the problem *is* Marshall’s horrible smug face. I hope he gets killed by a lorry. (Not joking.)

      • Yup – I completely agree. It doesn’t matter what he looks like. It is the dangerous “advice” that he is peddling that we should focus on. I read one of his books at the time of my D-Day. It was the worst thing I could ever have done. I am so grateful to have found Chump Lady and the good people of Chump Nation soon afterwards to correct my befuddled thinking.

        Love and thanks to you all.

      • Terrible. Like it should be/should have been. 24 months out, he’s as Mad as a March Hare, I’m healing. I had a monstering MLCer – who instead of a crisis, did a face plant. I don’t talk to him. Never saw OW or photo…
        The apologies I made after BD – were ultimately for me, I have no regrets about them, nor do I blame or shame a pick me dancer traumatized BS. I was there. I know how it feels.

        I miss my marriage everyday, still. Don’t miss the cheater. Wonderful World of Meh I have not found, but not for lack of trying. Peace.

  • Oh, pphhbbtt. I felt guilty about commenting on his looks earlier, but it’s obvious from a lot of posts that we needed a little outlet for some of our snarkier feelings, and this guy was that last touch to make those feelings boil over.

    I do wonder what his advice on winning back a cheating wife would be.

    • I agree, I was also uncomfortable about the ‘Brit Dentist’ comments. I’m pretty sure that’s an insult, but what *I* saw in that fucking SMIRK of his was my X! When I made him clean out the pool with her fucking tangle of red hair in it that I couldn’t quite grab. Same, sick, smirk. I was wounded by that smirk, and this man looks like Satan himself. Stone him!

    • Well, he has a book out called “My Wife Doesn’t Love Me Any More – the Love Coach Guide to Winning her Back.” Ironically enough, he practically had doomsday advice for couples who start their relationship by being cheaters/other men/other women:


      Q: Do you have any advice for relationships that started as infidelity? Obviously it’s not an ideal situation because the trust can never be the same as you know they left someone else for you, but once you’re in it, are there any ways to improve that trust bond between you?

      A: I have to admit this is a huge huge huge problem. And it’s one of the reasons I’m so against infidelity. We imagine once the other person’s out of the way, we’ll walk off into the sunset. My concern is that if a relationship has poor foundations it is hard to build upon.

  • Any one who follows this drivel is guaranteed another D-Day, unless the cheater goes so far underground that they are not detected. This advice completely ignores the role of the cheater and their shortcomings in the infidelity and actually provides the cheater with a pass based on such things as falling out of love with their spouse, the spouse paying too much attention to the children and the spouse’s inability to get communication right. This article completely glosses over any pain the betrayed spouse might feel and seems to indicate that the cheater should not have to do anything to make amends other than show up. Trust should be handed over on a silver platter lest the cheater be offended that they are not considered trustworthy. There is a look of contempt on the author’s face which was not unlike the look of contempt I received from XH when I confronted him with the evidence of his infidelity. He had the same look when he sneered at me, “You are making a big deal out of nothing” while denying everything. I guess it was easy for me to make a decision; I did not get a confession or even the fake remorse. This article doesn’t even talk about having a big sit down discussion about why it happened so it will never happen again. Even with that I don’t think you can ever be sure but without it, barring some life-changing epiphany, I think you can be sure that the cheater will cheat again.

    • Exactly what I was thinking, Chumptacular!!!

      To this day, I have never gotten a confession from him of any kind, just denials!!!

  • I love the title of your blog post, CL. It’s the old “Man Bites Dog.”

    Sadly, chumps being blamed for the actions of cheaters isn’t nearly as rare (or newsworthy) as a man biting a dog.

  • “a pathetic megalomaniac who can’t get laid, Prairie Vole-style or otherwise”…this made me CHOKE WITH LAUGHTER on the wine I’ve been drinking to quell the pain!! Chump Lady is BAD ASS!!!

  • I have a confession:

    Back in October 2015, after the divorce was final, I asked The Evil One to come over after school one afternoon- he returned all of my CD’s and I returned all of his old photographs and incomplete scarp-book pages I never got around to. We were sitting at the table he bought for me one year for our anniversary, and I don’t know why exactly but I looked him in eye and said, “{Evil One}, I am sorry I made you feel neglected. I am sorry that I was in Stage 4 Endometriosis and my hormones were out of whack, and I got into a depression for the last two years of our marriage, causing me to need a total hysterectomy. I’m so sorry I didn’t realize how much time and attention you needed from me, having to still work full-time and take care of our Autistic daughter practically on my own every minute of the day” His response? CRICKETS, just got teary eyed and refused to tell me why he was crying. I didn’t push the issue, and after he left I felt like a jack-ass for actually apologizing to the lying, cheating, stealing dick.

    Of course, after reading Andrew’s drivel, I realize now that I was “defending” and “justifying” my “apology”, so of course he couldn’t have been expected to accept it as it was delivered.

    Either/or, doesn’t matter, within a few weeks he married his OWhore and is off with his new family that he abandoned that family God gave him to go make a sparkly new one with her and her two kids and neglects his own daughter.


    • You didn’t owe him an apology – he owed you one and that goes for everyone on this site. Chumps apologize when no apology is necessary and cheaters will not apologize when it is beyond mandatory. Narcissists are known to antagonize their partners and push them until they blow up – then they stand back and act like the calm one while enjoying the show. They also use guilt to manipulate. It is normal to feel guilt as part of the grieving process when a relationship ends and there is always something that we could have done better or not done in our relationships. At the end of the day, there is NO excuse for cheating and a cheater does NOT deserve an apology from the betrayed spouse in any way, shape or form for “their part” in the cheater’s unilateral decision to cheat.

      • Fuck! I can’t imagine apologizing for anything at all..
        Well…except when I was on heroin-strength doses of Oxy for a bad broken arm and ankle for 8 wks (85 mg/day), and I found myself writing exactly ONE heroin-produced BS letter to him. I KNOW you felt bad, hunny bunny…wasn’t it fun to run with the dogs hinny-binny? But, he seriously thought I was sane. And, 6 mos later, showed me that email I had sent him apologizing for nothing really. I was completely stoned in the hospital for 6 days. Other than sending mean nasty filthy emails at him. I did apologize for that, cuz it wasn’t me. Anyway, I do hate I even sent that to him. I later told him how high I was, and laughed. I didn’t mean ANY of it, asshole. I was on Heroin! bwahaha

    • UnsinkableMolly,
      I did something very similar with both my STBX and my ex-boyfriend. I hope to get out of this habit (almost a ‘reverse-projection’) of apologizing for normal things, things that one should never apologize for (e.g., ‘I’m sorry that I did not worship you enough.’)

    • You know what? If he couldn’t make it work with his own family. …he won’t make it with a blended family. My ex did exactly the same thing….but I am further down the road than you and would like to tell you how it really is….for some reason i ve been given a ring side seat in his drama ….which is especially good since i no longer care ….but to outsiders it’s all about image he tries to project verses reality.

      He now has an expensive home and sports car (both of which he can’t afford) and the kids that were unfortunate enough to be in this situation have been thrown out at finishing school to fend for themselves …without employment. The ow son is friends with my daughter and gave us an insight to what it’s really like in their f#*ked up world….it isn’t pretty. Domestic violence. … him cheating (surprise…not) and the selfishness of both him and ow …now wife is astounding. …they have only been married for just over a year. Ow son told many tales of drunken binges from his mum …one that resulted in the trashing of their home and resisting arrest when he called the police for her suicidal threats. I feel so sorry for these poor young ones. Her son also said how they both used to run me down and he thought it didn’t sound right….With all their problems. Not long after her son actually met me because my son asked me to give him a lift home as they wouldn’t. ….he told my kids later that after meeting me he knew they were lying.

      Meanwhile my life has moved on and I am engaged to a man who helps me with my kids and duties around the home ….buys me gifts….invests quality time with both me and my family. So in essence I am the lucky one ….despite it looking like they were. I have my kids respect and love….something very precious to me….and have been validated ….in a word why? Integrity. I held on to mine through the whole ordeal ….I am 5 years out from d day number 2.

      Funny thing is….ex will use any excuse to drive by our home (which was the family home) or come around for the most flimsy reasons. I ve also heard from the kids he says things like “oh chump (me) has raised our kids well …” putting down ow ….where she was once on a pedestal ….she is now garbage to him….judging by all of his actions not listening to his words. Just wow .

  • What a load of horseshit.

    Nagging leads to cheating, does it? Well, if they weren’t being a fuckwit and doing shitty things, we wouldn’t have to nag them about shitty behaviour now would we?

    And all the “joy being sucked out of the relationship”, and also – “If your husband feels that you don’t love him, he can start to feel entitled to look elsewhere” garbage? I wasn’t aware that we had to constantly pander to their toddler needs at the expense of everything else – but I guess thats the hallmark of a narcissist which is a dealbreaker in itself. Heaven forbid one actually self-gratifies themselves without being a cheating prick.

  • I looked up some of his shi…stuff, but I couldn’t find anything about his own marital status. Anyone know? (Cuz I want me some of that.) No really, I saw where he’s been counseling (snort) people for 30 years. Seems like you oughta have some actual experience in the field, but I couldn’t find it in the five minutes or so that I invested. Five minutes I’ll never get back.

  • My ex cheated, for decades, lead a double life, actually…..and I never ever nagged. My ex cheater sucked at sex, when we were young and healthy and as we got older, he was just…ahem…still not….good…at it…. But I stayed because I loved him and he was my husband and I thought that was just how it was. I was much more financially and professionally successful than my ex, but we were married for 25 years and we treated the money as both of ours and I never felt resentful. I thought we were a team. I believed what he told me and I believed in his love of me and our children.

    So you see, they cheated when we nagged and when we didn’t. They cheated when we were young and thin and when we were older and heavier. They cheated when we were stay at home moms/dads and when we were professionally successful. They cheated with younger or more physically attractive AP’s and with downgrades in every way from us. They cheated when they were still having sex with us and when they did not. They cheated when we adored them and when we took them for granted.

    Hmmmm…..what’s the common denominator here?? Oh yeah I almost forgot with all the cheater double speak and word salad spewed by “experts” like Andrew—>. Cheaters cheat.

    • Kelly, your comment is so right. A cheater cheats it has nothing to do with us. So with that, it cannot be prevented or fixed by us.

    • Amen, Kelly!!! You are so right!!!

      I firmly believe my ex—- cheated in every which way from the beginning, but had such a sweet ride with me, he never left until (again, I believe) he found a better deal.

      Cheaters cheat. That’s what they do, that’s why they suck!!!!

      • UMX, I used to think my ex was devoted to me all of the twenty eight years we were together. We had the typical growing pains but I was competent and confident enough for us both, to make it work. I was wrong. I remember key moments throughout where things just did not make sense. It seemed as if he were always sabotaging us. Our wedding night? Off celebrating with friends while I took care of our little one. (We dated for seven years, red flag here too, lol.) Cheaters have more than just Cheater speak in common, they have traits as well. My ex was a chameleon, adopting others’ viewpoints as his own, very handsome and Sparkley and needed to be the center of attention, always looking at other women, making comparisons, was crappy in bed, read selfish (i.e. Made love like a porn star), was disengaged (worked long hours or spent long hours at his fitness club), was physically not affectionate, passive aggressive, competitive with those close in unhealthy ways, and always needed validation. My gut was screaming at me over the years but I wanted to believe he was who I thought he was. All evidence points to a different truth. I believe that for many of us it is when they can no longer hide their black souls that they blow their marriages up.

        • And remember they don’t move on to something better…just something new. As in unaware (in some cases though cheaters find people like themselves, as mine did, which is a fine bit of karma)…. I know one thing now though I was not happy in a marriage with someone incapable of love.

  • Yeah, as far as I’m concerned, I would take this whacko’s advice right about the time they hold Icecapades in hell. At the point that I left cheater ex, I detested him, and I really had no idea of all the depth of his perfidy at that point. I just knew he made my skin crawl.

    Apologise? Fuck that!

    • Perfidy. Perfect. I had to look that up.
      Would there be a way to make that a Noun? Yanno, in the Urban Dictionary.

      LOVE the ‘Icecapades in hell’ !!

      • Andrew G. Marshall has an opinion on the physical appearance of female victims of adultery:

        “In a strange way you’ve been asking your husband to rescue you. (I call it out-sourcing your self esteem or welfare to someone else) I know you didn’t need him to kick you while you’re down – sadly men never realise what affairs will do to their wives shaky body image – but asking him to make you like how you look is something past his pay scale.” [sic]

        He’s fair game.

  • I thought I had read every word of all the RIC crap, but I missed this little jewel. All the infidelity Advice is so harmful, it helps no one but the cheaters.

    I honestly believe garbage like this ENCOURAGE S adultery because cheater read it or hear about it and know they won’t face any consequences. They usually get rewarded for the bullshit they pull. Ex got treated like a fucking king after he cheated on me, due to crap like this.

  • Implode into state of paralyzed depression angry. You that was pretty much me…4 year worth until he did it again ad discarded me. Because I was negative angry and didon’t forgive . Bad me! Never mind that he made no effort at all. I was expected to do the puck me dance. They truly do suck

    • sadlady – so you also wen thru the PUKE me dance! I think we all did at one time. You wouldn’t believe the bathing suits I bought on our last trip to Hawaii. He never noticed one of them and, since he didn’t rub lotion on my back, I was nothing but sunburnt. Yeah, nice trip. NOT!

  • So…what Voldemort needs/wants is NOT a real live authentic person but a BLOW UP Doll. 😉 Preferably one who blindly adores him and apologizes for her existence because, gosh, life is so exhausting when you have to deal with a real live significant other. Especially one who may have feelings, hopes, dreams, and needs. Cheaters are just plain stupid. This article? Proof.

    • This. Because what feels better than getting away with lying and cheating? Having the person you lied to and cheated on not only accommodate and accept your lying and cheating fully, but inflating your important ego and begging for more debasement.

  • hmmm, how about Fck No!. She had affair so why must I apologise? I gave her everything she wanted (and I could afford). I made her life great… but yet, she cheated.

    • SDK, I think the real “secret” that these losers don’t want you to know is that the better you treat these fucktard s , the more likely they are too cheat. Dipshit ex had it made, I’m telling you.

      • Anita.. I agree with you 100%. The more you give , the more they take/demand. They feel entitled to cheat. Because my ex got everything she wanted… but yet not enough.

        But she is her AP’s problem now. I’m trying to get rid of her for almost 8 months now, but she is dragging heels in the divorce, she wants MORE… jeez. She already gets 50% ..

        • Well yeah, we’re basically rewarding the affair if we become a “better wife” in response to the affair. If they get treated like a king (or queen) in response to hurting us, they might try hurting us more/again to see if we step up the royal treatment. It took me a long time to see this. I’m sure there are always the exceptions where the cheater won’t take advantage of kindness, but I’ve come to believe that doesn’t happen in the majority of cases.

  • You mustn’t panic. This is the worst thing you can do. More marriages end because of a wife’s panic than a husband’s determination to leave.

    And why would this be? Maybe it’s because he likes fucking 2+ women at a time and has every intent to do so throughout your entire marriage… So, by not panicking you can keep him for life and put up with many, many affairs. Oh joy. But, if you panic and be an edgy bitch, he realizes that the jig is up and he needs to find someone new to cheat on. Boy, that would really suck to panic and be rid of the walking STD carrier.

    I’m sorry. If you want to improve yourself, that is fantastic. And when you do that, there will be even more people out there who will want you as a friend and partner. So, wouldn’t it be even better to improve for friends and/or a partner who actually appreciate you and reciprocate your kindness?

  • So sad that chumps looking for support and decent advice get bombarded by google with Voles offering advice like this”. I recall buying one of those stupid Marshall books and deleting it from my kindle after about the fifth page. I wonder if he gets any satisfaction from being such an oxygen waster.

    Maybe it’s time to revisit Amazon reviews and make some salient comments.

    • Yes, I felt like I was totally flailing when I was newly betrayed. I tried wreckonciliation for several years. I read the surviving an affair stuff. I read Dobsons’ “Love must be tough” which is like the 180. While tough, it was still basically just a tough love version of the pick me dance. When there was another dday, I pleaded with him to go to marriage counseling and he said I had to go myself. I tried to reach out to my mother in law. Sometimes, I felt like no one except my mom and dad were on my side. My ex said crushing things. My mother in law said crushing things. My ex had a therapist who he talked to when he was trying to figure out how to leave me. That therapist seemed to be one of the therapists that blameshifts onto the betrayed. In the beginning, I was disappointed that my therapist didn’t stand up for me in marriage counseling. In fact, she made a statement, in front of my then husband, that she wanted me to take a mental health assessment because she could tell I wanted to say something but was concerned that I wasn’t saying it.

  • I just love the headline for this post by the way, Chump Lady. The addition of “says quack” made me laugh out loud.

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