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Dear Chump Lady, How do I handle the OW?

listenbitchDear Chump Lady,

How do I handle this bitch?!

My husband left me last year because he needed “space.” Come to find out he has been seen with one of my “friends” —  a mom at the children’s school — for the last two years!

They live in the same apartment complex. I spoke to her husband and they moved in at the same time. How special.

Anyway, they are still denying it, but using the kids to build this relationship. I have three kids and she has three. Our daughters are friends. It’s awful. But, the worst part is how aggressive she is. She walks by me on campus, smirks at me, and even says hello in a snarky voice. Of course I want to bitchslap her, but I don’t want to go to jail.

If I tell my husband, they will probably just rejoice in what is bothering me. I want to tell my children about this woman. They are young 2, 7, 9, but I think the older two are starting to catch on. My husband lets this whore carry my baby around. I know I have no control, but any advice? I have now learned about another full-blown affair he had for one year when my first two were 2 and 4. He’s such a douchebag. I hope they both rot in hell! 


Dear HBBB,

My first question is, why is this man still your husband? After a year of space, shouldn’t he have that space occupying a divorce decree? I think he needs all the lebensraum of court-ordered child support on three small kids, plus alimony. Release the fuckwit at once! Let the Other Women have him.

How do I handle this bitch?!

Which one? The married former friend with three kids? Or the fuckbuddy before that? Or the probably half dozen others I bet you don’t know about? How many bitches do you intend to “handle” while your “husband” lives in an apartment contemplating Space?

Do you think he’s pondering quantum physics in his off hours? Quasars? String theory? No, he’s screwing around on you. This cake arrangement works quite nicely. He gets his affair(s), his chump and family, and zero consequences. Oh! And he gets all the misdirection of your being incensed by the OW. Riles the OW up into a nice pick me dance, so she’s all smirky and superior to your face. Which probably has the intended effect of goading YOU into not giving him that divorce. Cake is maintained! And better still, you never mention your fury to him, to deny them both the satisfaction.


You know how you deal with aggressive, smirky, snarky OW? I’m going to tell you the OW Kryptonite secret.

Here’s what you do — the next time she crosses your path on campus and wrinkles her nose at you and sneers “Hi Heartbroken!” (subtext: I Fucked Your Husband) — you stand up to your full height, look her square in the eye, and convey in words, stance, or sheer telepathy — “Good luck with that.”

See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya. The secret to these encounters is simply TRUST THAT THEY SUCK. She sucks, he sucks, and you do NOT suck.

And when you really internalize that you do NOT suck, and you do NOT deserve this disrespect and devaluing, then you ACT on it, and you divorce the fuckwit and let OWs one through 57 deal with it.

Seriously, let her have the joy of wondering who he’s having “space” with tonight. The only thing to “handle” here is your own agency.

So many things here are out of your control — your husband’s cheating on you, your children’s friendship with the OW’s kids, the OW’s sneery countenance — embrace the one thing here you DO have control of — YOU.

I know you have a deep investment in this man — three children and years of your life — but is this relationship acceptable to you? A man who cheats on the mother of his children? And walks OUT ON THEM when the youngest is an infant?

If you’re financially dependent on him, start handling not being financially dependent on him. See what a lawyer says about alimony and support. Start training for a new career or go back to your old one.

When you are being a badass — leaving Mr. Toxic, focusing on a new life, being the sane parent to your kids, and OW tries to get over on you? What is there to sneer at? Would you be offended if a circus clown insulted your outfit? If Donald Trump said your haircut was funny? If a dimwitted dwarf wanted the contents of your diaper Genie?

Consider the source! (an OW) Consider what she wants! (him) Walk away! You’re too busy building that new life and raising three kids to trifle with that crazy.

As for what do you tell the children? You tell them you’re divorcing. Because Daddy cheats on you. And you’re all worth too much to tolerate that.

Ask Chump Lady

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  • Pack up his crap and leave it at his apt while he’s at work. Change all your locks. Put all monies in a bank account with only your name on it. Then hire a good tough thorough divorce lawyer. And then tell this a$$hat to grab his ankles. Let him be someone else’s problem while he pays child support and alimony.

    • ChokeOnYourCake,
      ? Pure telepathy: “f*** off” worked wonders for me when the AP pulled a chummy voice at court. I will try, “choke on your cake” next time (telepathically). I must save my public energy for the workout of deep breathing through the waves of rage.

  • Divorce his ass. Also don’t fall for the ‘I want to come back’ BS because the minute you file his need for ‘space’ is suddenly going to disappear. Show him their are consequences for his action. Ignore the OW. She is waste of space on the planet.

  • Ex delighted in the kibbles he received through his triangulation. I didn’t get it at first but he actually laughed like a greedy pig, until I asked OW to assist me in divorcing him. Up until that moment I didn’t know if her and if course he fed her lies. I busted him while he was talking to her on the phone, stinking drunk early one morning. I was surprised to hear a woman’s voice. I asked her if she enjoyed being some married man’s cum bucket. He laughed and told her not to respond. Then I told her that I was chasing this man down to serve him divorce papers and perhaps she needed some pointers in screwing him more effectively. Obviously she wasn’t scratching that itch.
    Not much fun, no challenge or triangulation if you don’t play their game. Lawyer up.

    • Chumplady is correct. The OW and your hubby are enjoying the pain they are inflicting on you. Those two are dead it makes the sex more exciting and deceiving the spouses.
      When you take your power back it deflates their ego and leaves then to deal with each other. She wins a cheat.
      My OW won a drunken lying cheap cheat.

  • This is why no contact is so important if you can manage it.
    I was LEFT….we didn’t grow apart, I wasn’t misunderstanding. I thought I was MARRIED. I killed myself trying to be better working out to be thinner, had a gastric bypass to lose the weight that I thought was the issue , to bury all the insecurity that made him so upset with me ( 4 affairs….but I needed to get over it) tried to be interested in all his stuff that really didn’t interest me…..ugh, pathetic. I had no clue at the time what I was dealing with. I kept thinking I needed to get my shit together so he wouldn’t cheat.
    To this day….while he does admit that he was in an “inappropriate relationship but not sleeping with” with the affair partner he moved in with a hot second after he left, he SWEARS that he left his family for a new one because we “grew apart”. He will tell anyone that listens this story. He’s not a cheating scumbag….we “grew apart”. His fucking other people had nothing to do with it.
    Now he parades that other woman around introducing her into his life as the new me like she’s just the one that saved him….cushioned the blow of our “growing apart”. It’s whatever.
    I have zero time to invest in this and I have blocked anyone associated with him from my social media, cut off the Switzerland friends, my adult kids are also no contact with him ( but are welcome to have a relationship with him if they choose, they don’t want this currently). The second I went complete no contact I started to heal….it’s soooo hard but it works. Take yourself off the crazy train.
    How do you deal with the other woman? You don’t….she’s an idiot too.

    • This sounds exactly like my ex…. we grew apart…. ha! Like his numerous trips all over the world with her had nothing to do with it. He continues to tell everyone this lame story… like I am some pathetic person that didn’t measure up. He too parades the new younger one around. She can have him. I know the kind of person he is. She is going to waste several years of her life on him.

      • Yes!! At first her snide comments and flaunting that she “won him” infuriated me.
        Now I just think about how this poor dumb girl is going to waste years of her life trying to be better to keep it going when there’s no way she will ever be good enough.
        Maybe that’s the karma…that the woman I thought took my life away just took my job. Enjoy jumping through those hoops honey……it’s exhausting.

          • ^^^This^^^ is me too!! X left me for his college gf of 35 years past and moved her across country to live with him here in our small town. Of course it’s twu luv. BUT Karma is already at work. OW’s not happy living in NY away from all her friends in IA. No one in town wants to meet OW because they know what her role is in our split. She’s working a job that has a commute time of 45 minutes each way (IF there’s no traffic) and his job has gone belly up and he has no IRA or savings left anymore… If I get paid any spousal support, it will be HUGE, but I have to say it’s worth it to watch them implode. Now they’re considering a move back to the Midwest which he left at 21 … he’s now 60. The karma bus is rockin’ and rollin’ over them daily! My girls and I just shake our heads at their stupidity!

            As for me, I have no desire to get involved in anyone else’s drama. I am truly happy without the narcissistic idiot in my life!

            • Yay you. I have one of those “lost loves” as an OW, she is an entitled bitch who seems to think I am the usurper. Funny as they broke up (twice) due to infidelity way before I was ever in the picture. She also wants to move here from abroad. That will be a train wreck – he’s useless and she has never lived outside of her town and huge support system. Hope they make each other miserable. At least they are removing each of their poison from the dating pool.

      • Do you think that anyone with even an ounce of common sense buys this narrative they try to peddle? Particularly when the new relationship checks off all the stereotypes of the balding middle aged guy with a beer gut is fucking his ho-worker who happens to be 17 years younger and they are trying to tell everyone that it “just happened” or “we fell in love, we couldn’t help it”. Does anyone start with believing the BS they spout. Even before I was a chump, I knew the score in a situation like this. I MIGHT have been convinced that they didn’t actually start fucking until after the divorce, but now I know that these assholes think nothing of lying (and they rewrite the narrative such that they actually believe their own lies), but even setting aside the semantics of when they inserted tab A into slot B… I didn’t look at relationships like these (this is where my Ex-Asshole has gone) and assumed that these were the people who had these really loving functional relationships who just happen to have a big age difference. I started by assuming that he was some kind of jerk who thought he was entitled to fuck as young as he wanted, she was a gold digger of some type who knew what she was (i.e. …younger eye-candy/whore) who better not get fat or pregnant. I start there and then if I get to know the people I’m open to the possibility, that actually – these folks are the 1 in 10 who happen to be two people who really love each other and there happens to be an age difference.

        • CaGal – No, reasonable people with a head on their shoulders do not buy this bullcrap. I recall, I had just started a new job years ago and during the first week, one of my colleagues, a married man, comes in my office and starts rambling off that he doesn’t have a good marriage and how his wife is this and that and tears her apart. I *immediately* stopped him and said: “If you have problems in your marriage, then please talk to your wife. I am not the person to talk to about this!” And I shut him down right away. And over the years, I got to meet the wife at work functions and she was an amazing person, and he was the scumbag. Eventually, his wife divorced his ass. She was way too good for him anyway.

          • I work at a fairly high level occupation in a pretty serious field of work. Last summer I was hounded by three married guys. I think with the first one, I was 12 years younger. The second one, we were same age. Third one, 13 years younger. In all three cases, I said the same thing you did: “You need to tell all this to your wife. She’s the only one who can help you sort it out.”

            But you know what? None of these guys want to sort it out, not really. Or they’d be telling it to their wives.

            They just want a taste of strange.

            This makes me mad enough to spit. If I weren’t dependent on the paycheck, I’d have quit.

            I wanted for the longest to become a marital counselor, but not anymore, after having to fend off married cheaters. My big takeaway from that summer is that a spouse who is bored in a marriage (really, not with you, but with itself) will cast a line at whoever looks like they could be game. I think very highly of myself but I don’t think it is about AP’s value, either.

            I think it is just about opportunity. They will take on whoever says yes to their line of shit.

            This pisses me off but at the same time helps me accept that X just moved on with the next available pair of tits. I take a respectable grieving/review period before entering next relationship and maybe I’m just dense, but I don’t see how it’s “love” or even “worthy” when it happens so quickly after original relationship has ended.

            Would love any input here on how to really drive it home, when married cheater tries to pick me. I don’t want to be picked, not by that, and still have trouble because I tend to be “polite” about it, when really I’d rather haul off and say “You know what, if you’re serious, I have just lost all respect for you, and my next stop is HR.”

            Mainly because these guys are in higher roles and my visit to HR could result in my job loss. :/

            • That’s a tough one, LuckySeven that you could lose your job over this complaint.
              Yeah – life is fair, all right.

              We had a post awhile ago about the amount of sleezebags that came on to us once they heard we kicked the X’s out.
              It’s a pattern if they smell a whiff of insecurity and hope the to catch the woman horny and ready for loving. (which I was, but not at all prepared for these come-ons and would never have done it – it would have been desperate.

              But, 2 of these asshats were my current BIL’s and one was a very aggressive handy-man.
              Offering massages without me asking – I hated him touching me! Ugh!

              I gave all the 3 of them the boot and I don’t regret a bit of it, no matter what it cost with the family on the BILS.
              Sent all the handyman porno-fed text to his wife and I’ve never had any trouble since.

              BE FUCKING WARY of the opportunists out there.
              They come out of the wood-work, especially if you let on you have money.
              And, I sure don’t let it out – but this is a very small town.

              • Love your response. I’ve had the same (female) masseuse for going on 15 years now and it’s too bad these jokers don’t understand that -man does not equate to +horny or +lonely. And definitely, not +desperate.

                Also sad that they don’t realize that for some women, a man who is married equates to -penis. And I don’t mean to shame ANY GUY who is *married*. Just that if you are married, my morality blinders register you as neutralized and off limits to any sector of my really sordid imagination. But a married cheater, man, that guy has no penis at all. Not for me. And especially if we work together, jeez. Stupid.

                I’ll have to look back for the post you mentioned. And I have to admit that despite the comedy of the clichés, that one plumber was really attractive, and for a long time, I second guessed not going for it. I still have dreams about the postman, too, lol. ;D

            • Sometimes I play dumb/naive, like I’m really not grasping what they’re hinting at. I smile and change the subject and move away and avoid as much as possible.


              But there’s an OW under every rock, and a cheater will generally not have a problem scoring eventually–it’s just that it will be with some dumb twat.

    • Yes. Yes. Get off the crazy train. Mine said he needed space, and I was shocked to discover he was living with someone else. I thought she did not know he was married so I approached her. Big mistake! She knew but just didn’t care. I did the pickmedance in MAJOR ways like Paintwindow and thought I’d won because he came back to me and the kids. No, I just made it uncomfortable enough for him that he decided to live with me and see her every afternoon before coming home for dinner. He acted like a devoted, loving husband the whole time Just. Eww. I had no idea. I HAD to get off the crazy train of infidelity and divorce him. I still cannot believe he chose that awful girl. You can’t control their choices, but you control yours. For me, it meant getting my self-respect back.

      • Yeah, this needing “space” and being “confused”, are all cheater code to there is someone else.


    I love that CL tells you to tell the kids the truth. I hate the wreckonciliation complexes advice to sugar coat it…. talk about making your kids schizophrenic. I too think its best to simple state the truth. I had a GF who went through the same thing with kids your age and thats how she handled it and it turned out fine.

    I can say up until the last month I wanted to fuck up the OW too. And I am a year post divorce. I even thought about killing her dog (since that was her “baby” and she stole my family… I know the innocent dog but my kids were innocent and after watching them both go to therapy that was a small price for her to pay.) Luckily my girlfriends talked me out of it. A few weeks later she had to put it down because it had seizures…. go figure. Just saying I know how you feel and you can waste a lot of time in that zone of wanting revenge. Trust me you are doing yourself a disservice. Moving forward is tough but oh so worth it! It takes time so begin now! Really trust that they suck! Their suckiness is the noose around their neck. Its a mindset you have to work toward but once you are there you will never go back. The thought of having my ex touch me makes my skin crawl now.

    But for now you have to prepare to go to war….. this will be the most important financial decision you make plus get what you can for the kids sake. You think he will continue to support the kids financially with all his fuck buddies???? Fight for your kids. Put all monies into a bank account with you name on it! You have the advantage of planning and making the first move. It will all be equalized in the long run but you will need money to pay an attorney. Find an attorney. A good one. Have them tell you what paperwork you will need based on your assets. Download all transactions and put them into a file. The paperwork can be a bitch but you might need access to all transactions to show what he spent on her and the apartment etc… You can fight for that too. Get your own credit card. Then file. Once you file the accounts are frozen. If he cuts you off you can file for emergency alimony. And get ready because he will turn into something ugly when he is served. If you want to be extra snarky have him served in front to the school or something embarrassing. Threaten to depose the OW for leverage. Depose him and sit across from him and watch him squirm. You probably live in a no fault state but trust me its worth it and judges are human…. a woman with 3 small kids…. anyone would throw the book at him. Start making moves for employment (this was the scariest for me.) Join a support group (check out meet up.) GF’s going through divorce can be a great foundation. Expect the other married moms at your school not to “get it.” Exercise, meditate and begin to refocus. Good Luck.

    • How could you consider harming a dog? Seriously, that’s something you shouldn’t need to be talked out of.. you shouldn’t let it cross your mind. You might want to look deeper into that if you feel you’re capable of harming a helpless animal that did nothing to you, to get revenge on somebody.

      • I think the utter despair and rage of what’s been done to us can turn any of us slightly insane. I’ve fantasised about all kinds of things because I was so hurt and shocked by what had been done to me and my children, so I wouldn’t criticise someone in our position who admits to revenge fantasies.

        • My revenge fantasies are short and sharp and feel frighteningly real. That is how I know I have to stay NC forever.

          It’s alarming how primitive the rage can be. You have to understand that any situation that brings you to the level that would actually physically harm another life, is NOT a good or safe situation for you. You have to get away from that person or situation, as completely and quickly as possible.

          I have wanted to say, with consummate snark, so many truths about my feelings about X. And those statements would be super funny; you’d all love them. But we don’t really live in a world right now where it is ok to even joke about harming another life physically. So while the collective consciousness is still traumatized by recent and ongoing news items, it’s good to remember that people are easily triggered and reactive, and might take your pained joking for something more than the venting and solely verbal release that it is.

          I had to sit on my hands all weekend to keep from saying here what I really want to say to X. Be careful with your words, and put NONE of those vaguely (or specifically) violent statements in writing. That all comes out in court documents and custody evaluations.

          Be grace. Whenever you can manage it, be grace. Stay on the high road.

          • I think some of the rage we let off here is just venting and especially since all of us here understand. Lord knows ive thought of whoppers when pissed off and im sure ive vented more than a few here. But its just venting. Asswioe called me a piece of shit in the middle of a rage, stopped mid sentence when he realized what he said and high tailed with embarressment. Stupid ass some words can never be taken back. Have i wished him dead, yes, have i wanted to kill him with my bare hands for nasty disgusting things he said about our children, yes, have i wished him whore juice and her entire family dead in a fiery crash yes. Part of the grieving process and i cant blame anyone for the same things ive thought. The best revenge is living well. Those two will have to put up with each other now he cheats she sleeps with married men they fight about everything and the kids family members stay clear and distant wanting no part of that drama. Asswipe is unhappy, deep in debt i mean deep and on pills for all kinds of pain mad and angry as a hornet 24/7 he is going down in flames of sorts of his own doing. And the perfect flawless whore aint so damn perfect. How you like me now motherfucker? Good luck with THAT!

            • I am not an aggressive or violent person, but the rage and anger that erupted from me is one of the reasons I knew I had to get out!
              I don’t think revenge had anything to do with my reaction to being “soul raped” (DM’s very good explanation)! I was traumatized while he pranced around like there was nothing wrong except that I suddenly had an anger problem and did not trust him.

              • Yep i hear you i thought about some terrible stuff but only just thoughts. Part of the healing process i believe i would never do anything but it was fun to think it at the time! Ive never even thought of revenge just saving myself and getting far far away from the madness so watching the karma bus smack them both in the face over and over without any help from me has been glorious. He walked away from our life like i and our kids meant nothing he means nothing to me now. Nothing. I dont care if he and that whore lives breathes or dies. I just dont care.

              • The day after D-Day I was mean to my own cat: I didn’t hurt herbut yelled one day at a level so intense I shocked myself. That was a huge wakeup call for me.

          • I wouldn’t say it’s actually “revenge” but every since this whole divorce/infidelity thing came to light, I’ve kept a file on my computer with all the nasty things I’ve wanted to say to X and OW. Lots of my quotations come directly from CN and CL! After Divorce, I put it all in letter form (about 4 pages) and called it my “Musings on the OW” and I addressed it to both of them. I now carry the letter in an envelope in my bag and when I’m really angry, I look at it and think do I want to send this now? What would be the repercussions? So it’s been carried about since January and just knowing it’s with me and I can use it at any time, gives me strength to move forward and ignore them!

        • I’ve had fantasies about doing some pretty horrific shit to the X and his whore. Of course, never acted on any of it either. But when you get thrown off a cliff, and laughed at as your falling down, it’s entirely normal to dream of some pretty hardcore revenge scenarios.

          I don’t think that makes her a monster, it makes her normal. Thinking about it and acting on it are two totally different things.

          • Hey, I’ve only just stopped falling asleep to thoughts of different ways of killing Shitbox. Never mind counting sheep. No matter how hard I tried to relax and fall asleep peacefully, nope. But finally, it’s stopped. 8 months post DDay. And I actually have had him laughing at me recently – laughing at me because I was getting upset at his treatment of me and telling him he needed to respect me and my boundaries. Who is the real psycho?!

            Nothing wrong with revenge fantasies. As long as fantasies is all they are.

        • “I wouldn’t criticise someone in our position who admits to revenge fantasies.”

          It sounded like she was planning it and had to be talked out of it from the way it was worded. I’ve had those go-all-Game-of-Thrones on OM fantasies, but never needed to be talked down from them by friends.

          I thought she should stop and think about if she could really kill a dog for revenge, that she should perhaps look into that. Less criticism and more something to consider. The dog can’t help that it’s owner is a cum bucket.

          So while I know what you mean about ‘someone in our position’… Someone has to say something about planning the murder of a helpless family pet. At that point you’d become the bunny boiler, and that’s not good for the soul.

          I’m glad her friends talked her down, and she was wise to not to go through with it. She should go to the dog park and pet some puppies. 😉

          • I’d be the first one to defend the legitimacy of violent fantasies about our cheaters’ demises. There is some catharsis in joking about tying them in a bag with pit vipers, or pushing them off tall cliffs.

            But I agree with Raging that there is a point where anger can become dangerous, and that point is thinking of harming someone (including animals) belonging to the cheater or OW/M.

          • If we substituted “child” for “dog” people would be losing their minds. My dogs are my children. I have never broke up a marriage, but if anyone harmed my dogs for any reason, for my real or perceived wrongs I had done, they had better run for the hills and find a bunker.

            It is a disturbing thing to write. I have hatred for the women Meth Maggot is with, but NEVER have I considered harming their numerous children. (I don’t think they are smart enough to have pets unless they are tied up outback). And honestly, it is more Meth Maggot’s fault than theirs. He probably lied about me even existing.

            As soon I read her revenge fantasies about harming someone’s dog…any animal…I knew we were on different planets. I stopped reading and was repulsed.

            Judgemental? Doesn’t matter. Sometimes there is a black and white, a right and wrong.

            Dogs have no control over what freak owns them. Completely innocent and will guard the home of a pauper as if it was a prince.

            And that’s the name of that tune.

            • I heard someone at one of the infidelity forums who admitted to having fantasies of harming the OWs children. She felt like her own children were harmed and she was very angry about it. It didn’t sound like she went through with it.

          • Agreed. The other poster that took some of us to task must have missed the “had to be talked out of it” or quite possibly did not care. As I stated before I totally get the revenge fantasy. I may even understand acting out, towards the adults involved. Maybe not agree but definitely understand, but when it comes to children and animals no effin way.

            • Somebody had a nickname: “I have rage”. That’s exactly how it feels. You (I) get all kinds of thoughts, raging thoughts. Do I act on them? Of course not.
              Therefore, let’s simply put a disclaimer: raging fantasies that we shall not act on.
              Unless others are going to agree with that, I’m not sharing my thoughts…

        • I think most of us just want the bastard gone. I’ve never dreamed of killing him but I wouldn’t mind a plane crash, or a train crash, or a car crash…..anything to remove him from this earth but not at my hand.
          If he has to remain on this earth than I pray for a love child between him and his younger affair partner who claims she “can’t get pregnant” anymore after her 3rd pregnancy was a disaster. I think watching him saddled with a newborn at almost 50 would give more satisfaction than his demise.

          • Ha! My ex ended up helping take care of his girlfriend’s kid. At this point he was married and his girlfriend was living with them. (open marriage). It seems that arrangement blew up in his face, partially because he didn’t abide by the open marriage contract. Then, he demanded his wife give up her boyfriend even though he didn’t listen to her concerns when he was breaking the contract. At first I felt mildly sorry for him in the way you feel sorry for anyone who completely fucks something up. It’s like hmmmm…I’m sorry you keep causing yourself pain, maybe you should stop doing that. At the same time, I do get some satisfaction out of knowing that he is the same person I was married to. He is still controlling and dishonorable. Nothing I did made him that way and nothing I can do will ever change it.

      • It is perfectly fine for her to express her feelings. I think all of us, if we are honest with ourselves, have had fantasies about revenge in the heat of the moment. That doesn’t mean we would actually do any of those things! I think chumplisa was merely trying to express how deep the anger and hatred toward the OW can go or, at least, that is how I read her comment. So long as we do not give in to those dark thoughts, I think we can discuss where our anger led us and how we have moved on from that anger.

          • Yeah using the puppy to get to a cheater. So the cheater is the target. I’m an animal lover too but think it’s pretty normal to have raging revenge FANTASIES (that you do not act on). Some animal activists are pretty crazy themselves. .

            • Heya Georgia – please don’t lump us all into PETA categories…..we aren’t that bad… 😉
              Most of us are mid-line and animals rights, along with gay-rights are right up there at the top of the pile these days.
              We live in good times!

              • I know. . Well, I am not ashamed to admit I thought about the best ways to hide a cheaters body in the desert.. I was so angry.. but would I ever do it.. HELL NO.. I’m not even embarrassed about my fantasies.. they make me smile these days. ..

                I love dogs but to annoy the OW I might break her dog’s legs… JUST KIDDING.. lol..

              • lol – Georgia. Yep, limbing a man was right up on my choice (watch too much true crime) and I loved the comment about his head on a stick in a parking lot.
                I thought about slitting his penis off, and burying it in concret….but the cancer took care of that for me.
                Karma has it’s way.
                I totally get the woman who ran over the X 3 times. But, so glad I didn’t do it.

                The thing is, I was much more afraid of HIM.
                I wasn’t sure what he would do.
                He started doing all the cooking and he wanted me gone.
                After I kicked him out, I wondered if he tried to poison me. Seriously – too much t.v. But, he had threatened me physically with guns.
                I was on the indifidelty diet so I never ate anything he made.

                Thanks ChumpLady for moderating at the one-off chance we all need it!

              • I’ve never had a revenge fantasy about the OW. Seriously, I know it’s weird, but my ALL my rage is directed just to him. Think Brazen Bull. But if I were to think revenge for OW and I knew she the loved a pet, well, I would find an already dead animal with identical pelt. I would then kidnap her pet and place the other dead animal that I beat with my trusty shovel under the tire of my xh truck. That my friends, is revenge.

              • Annie,

                My dad would’ve called that a sail-cat. So flat it’d sail like a frisbee when you threw it.

              • OK, I’ll admit it.
                I have stolen dogs before.
                Only to get it out of abusive situations….and only 2.
                People didn’t even know there were missing.

                That’s my confession.

                About finding a dead-dog carcass, Annie – I’m sure you could go to the animal shelter at any given time and pay for one they euthanized that day.
                They’d be happy for the donation.

        • Violet, i agree with you. after D-day, you can’t imagine what the things i wanted to do to the slut and anything that she loves, you don’t even want to ask. But now 2 years later nothing happens to anyone, and I’m not in jail for harming any living creatures, but it doesn’t hurt to think about it.

      • As much as revenge sounds great irrespective of the magnitude of that revenge, you know the biggest flaw with that scenario is (outside the legal ramifications)?
        Answer: It makes the cheater label you the raging psychopath that they than can use against you with practically anyone and everyone. It’s an Ace card for character assisination including in court.
        Grace, dignity, and no contact are the best way to go.

      • You guys know how much I HATE to moderate my blog, but can we all quit piling on Chumplisa? Gruesome revenge fantasies are part of the suckitude of discovery and betrayal. Personally, I wanted to gut my cheater with a fish knife — as I have publicly stated. And I’m all peace, love, and granola.

        Judge people on what they actually DO, not their ugly thoughts at their lowest moments. Thank you.

    • -“Talk about making your kids skitzophrenic”-
      Yes. If you mold and remold and fudge and sugar-coat and control your kids’ reality, I believe you mess up their mental health. Sit down, separate the truth & reality from all private emotion. Then handle it as maturely as possible. Say it like you would handle a flat tire, “My tire is flat. I will fix it.”
      Only, in your case, “This man broke a deal. I will not tolerate that. I will patch up my wounds. I will let go of my dream of an equal partnership with him. I will create a new future. You Kids and I are still a great family. We will move on together and cope with our new life.” Good luck!

        • Safe environment? To what limit? Work in animal rescue…the things people do to dogs are…barbaric, unimaginable, Holocaust flavor.

          Someone, perhaps not as enlightened as some of us, might read that and think…Yea…I will hurt her dog. We don’t know who reads this blog.

          Safe environment?…hopefully for dogs as well.

          • But she did nothing to the dog! I think the reactions here are a bit extreme. Chumplisa never said she had dogs and last I checked, no dogs are posting here … She was merely expressing how far her anger took her. She recognized that fact and dealt with it, so I personally am not going to act as if she actually harmed a dog. Thoughts are not the same as actions. Ever!

    • OMG get over yourselves. First off I never brought the poison. Duh! Second it was a fantasy! This site should let people express how they feel without your stupid judgement. If I wanted that I’d go back to my X. I have dogs and cats too but don’t consider them more important than my kids if you want to know the truth. I’m s physician and took the Hippocratic Oath…. Do no harm. So stop the judgy bullshit. You don’t know me,

      • Don’t take it personally Chumplisa. You did nothing wrong. People are strange about their pets. Hugs to you!

        • I never thought you meant anything by it chump lisa you were just venting i thought some pretty horrific things. Just venting and healing. Even now i still get angry and think bad things who cares doesnt mean anything. The only person i would have ever done harm to was myself and a great friend and chump nation helped me from doing it. Some are just overtly sensitive. Vent chumplisa it keeps the demons and cheaters away. I told asswipe once because i prefer not to go to jail i wouldnt set him on fire. I guess the look in my eye didnt quite look like i was kidding. But it did tell him to seriously stop fucking with me. Im not the one who said shoot the dogs when they ignored his commamds he said it. Dogs are innocent kids are innocent. Just saying shit dont mean nothing. Older or grown kids they can be a different way. My kids ashamed of their father whores kids cheering them on. You be you.

        • 100% agree. If I posted some of my thoughts from years ago, folks here would be quite shocked and offended. I tend to be a very mellow person, but when my kids were being harassed I was not in my right state of mind. I am much better, now and I am sure Chumplisa is, too.

            • Geez whiz. .. i thought this was a site to support others.. and people are going on and on about a poor dead fantasy dog. Get a grip. Yes animal cruelty is bad. . But some animal lovers really go too far. It was a FANTASY like we all probably had. Who cares what/who the fantasy is about. Stop attacking people for their fantasies.

      • Wow, this really blew up while I was gone!

        I believe you that it was a rage fantasy, not a serious desire to hurt the dog. However, I also think that the part where you said that it was lucky that your friends talked you out of it inadvertently gave some the impression that you were serious. I know I read it that way the first time, and others may have, too.

        I have a very hard time handling others’ more violent rage fantasies because of my own background. It always makes me uncomfortable. I don’t typically speak up because it’s part of the culture here and I am trying to accept others’ feelings even when they differ from my own. I would hope that others would do the same for me.

        I think everyone has an opportunity to learn a couple of things from this exchange.

        1) If you’re expressing a rage fantasy, try to use language that makes it clear.

        2) Of all the places on the web we need to show each other tolerance and give each other the benefit of the doubt, it’s here. We have all been terribly screwed. We all have lives and baggage. Let’s be careful to be respectful each other, even when we differ. We, of all people, can do it.

        OK, off soapbox. Love you folks.

      • But that is all some people have is their pets. Your value judgement on the worth of people’s pets and their right to live compared to your children is also disturbing. Your anger is misplaced..and odd. Perhaps it is embarrassment.

        I have never contemplated…not for a nanosecond…poisoning or harming an animal or a child. Ever. That you had to be talked out if it IS disturbing, disordered and troubling. After being humiliated and chumped, even when my thinking was off and I am wild with grief and rage, children and animals were not on my “hit” list. Revenge fantasies on a grown man that ripped your heart out, I get it. Revenge fantasies on a dog or cat, sleeping peacefully in their little beds, playing with their toys, happy to see you no matter how the world does- unthinkable.

        If that offends you, too bad.

        If you truly are a physician, you may want to review your ethical and professional conduct standards before you write a public post about killing someone’s pet over infidelity. It does not reflect well on your character.

        And if this truth gets me banned from this site, let the chips fall where they may.

        I have certainly had worse things happen.

          • Its just venting who cares stop already she was venting. Nobody condones violence not on anyone here but just thinking it or saying it out loud means nothing! I made targets for my pistol of the exs face and delight in blowing his blowing his brains out. No harm done. Im getting a cross bow and using whores face for the target anyone have a problem with that? I vent my frustrations and those assholes dont get hurt and i vent my rage and become a damn good shot. I agree with the disclaimer this is what my rage vents to do not what i would really do. Lighten up.

        • Confused – ‘People are strange about their pets.’
          Yup, damn rights we are.
          I have been in animal rescue all my life and I know I couldn’t go and work for the CHS anytime soon.
          Horrific abuse, starvation, etc.
          I’ve always been childless by choice and always had dogs and cats.
          They are not ‘my kids’, they are my pets and I’m not confused about the two terms.
          BUT, they are very important to me and to most everybody here, I’m sure.

          When you get a discussion going like this, it’s like talking about abortion.
          No thanks. There are never any winners.

          Yep – let’s just let that go as venting.


          • I believe it’s only an AP who would be guilty of doing a dastardly thing like that.
            Chumplisa – never put her on your high level of YOUR integrity. That’s more HER level.

            I was sure about the one in my life!

        • You have the right to your opinion, but I think your reaction is extreme. I get how you feel about your pets, but you are trying to shame a person for her thoughts, We have the right to think whatever we like in this country, so long as we do not act upon it. I think you are being quite unfair to a person who was merely trying to express how far her anger took her. If that offends you, so be it.

              • Violet wrote – ‘We have the right to think whatever we like in this country, so long as we do not act upon it. I think you are being quite unfair to a person who was merely trying to express how far her anger took her. If that offends you, so be it.’

                Yes! That is exactly why I love this country and this blog.
                We can agree to disagree about this particular topic and put it on the shelf the shelf that says, “Sensitive to C/N’.
                How many blogs have you been to that turn into Wars?
                Too many to count for me.

                At lease we can express our sensitivities here without judgment – and sometimes that’s hard to do.
                The animal issue is so crazy that it total incites people in strange ways.

                Like the abortion issue or the smoking issue, they are unwindable wars, and I’m so glad C/L has to step up occasion and remind us of the original posters issues, instead of our own.

                Concentrate folks.
                Me especially! Guilty here of hi-jacking the thread.

        • I’m with you Sabine. My beloved dog saved my life, post chumpery in every sense. (And I’m rather sure all of them did prior as well). Several of the old asshat’s OW had/have dogs, and it never crossed my mind for one instant to mess with the animals, even if I could have reached them. Never!

          Him? I busted a crockery jar full of knitting needles on his back, and I am afraid if I had a knife I might have actually harmed him. But a DOG?? or other animal…barf, un-huh that’s way out of line.

          Critters are pretty much the opposite of cheaters. If anything, take the dog and secretly rehome it..that would scare the living shit out of anyone who cared for an animal, without harm, I guess. But I call …something.

          And Chumplisa hun, if you’re a physician, I sure hope you can diagnose better than you spell. Sorry, I know the crazy is hard to live through, but one of my ex’s OW was a crazy-ass doctor, and she couldn’t spell either. call it a trigger.

          • Ditto on the dogs’ saving my life.
            I have never been a depressed person in my life, and suddenly I sank into a septic tank and one day, got so damn low, I actually truly thought of Hari Kari.
            I even knew how to do it – with one Helium Tank and a heavy-duty garbage bag…like my best friend did.
            Ugly thoughts while I was laying on the floor.
            And, as I laid there, all my dogs slowly started coming up to me (4 Danes), licking my head and face.
            It was like a bunch of tulips sprouted on me!
            The X was more likely to put them down if I died, and I knew I had to save their lives by keeping myself alive.

            Now that I’m at meh – I’m getting a new puppy (Yay) because dogs truly make me happy and I only surround myself with dog lovers.
            It’s a ‘thing’, I guess.

            But, those kisses when I was lowest made me chose to LIVE!
            Nobody else did that for me.

            • Shechump, during one of the first and worst devaluations by X, I dreamt of a similar rescue by beautiful merle Danes. It was the strangest and most healing dream. Lucky you, to have all those gentle giants in your pack.

              Good dogs. ❤️

              • Thank you LuckySeven.
                They are such Gentle Giants and great protectors.
                I never realized I’d need them for their original purpose so much in my life than right now.
                Dare a man to come and hassle me. Ain’t gonna happen and it’s more effective than a wedding ring. 😉

            • SheChump–I think we chatted about his a while back…I have Gentle Giants too (Newfie addict checking in). I love Danes–so regal! All the Molosser breeds make my heart go pitty pat, honestly. You need a really big dog to hold all that love! And then slurp it over you…. My girl is going to be 10 in October, and you know what that means. Sigh. I am hoping for some new fuzzy 4-legs in the time to come.

              (On the other hand, I’ve been caring for my sister’s 15 yo blind & somewhat demented and incredibly adorable Parson Russell…not my dog type in general, but by golly he’s a snuggler, and all the wonderful qualities dogs have. Love the little terriorist bastid.)

              ah, dogs. Like I said, I think they are the opposite of cheaters, in soul terms. (Yeah, I totally think dogs have souls! some more than certain human-ish individuals I have known. ) 😉

              • He he yeah, your comment about protecting. My dog would probably just love somebody into submission, but they don’t know that! They see a gigantic, barky (fussy hussy) and I’m sure anyone would just move on past. Even my first own dog, a scrappy lil lab/husky mix who was smart as a whip, set back those lips and ears for me a few times. Impressive sight.

              • Yes – NfV – I believe I either met you on MLC or SI, but we connected because I knew you had big dogs and loved them.
                It was actually quite awhile ago.
                I wish you the best with your Newfie at 10 yrs old.
                Not sure how long they live but Danes are about 6-7 yrs in most cases, but I’ve been lucky with a 12&13 yr olds.
                A rescued Indian Shepard lived til 18, so you never know.

                I always get back up on the step and so excited about my new puppy arriving in 3 wks.

      • The fact you fantasized about killing the dog is disturbing, that you needed friends to talk you out of it more so. I don’t care how you excuse it. And your response is “I didn’t buy the poison”. Not reassuring at all. I hope you get some therapy. Jedi Hugs!

  • Love me some chump lady. They never change and if you don’t change, they continue to mistreat you. Keep string mommy bear. And enjoy raising kids…you’re really the only parent they have.

  • Your kids don’t need this mindfuckery at their tender ages. If the older ones have cottoned on to what is transpiring,do you not think the rest of the school knows? Neighbors?

    Set an example for the children by modeling self-respect and kicking your loser husband to the curb. Do not pass Go. DO collect $200 plus through child support and spousal support.

    • I agree!! Show your kids that you are strong, and show them what is acceptable and how to be treated in life! Don’t let the OW know that she is getting to you, I love CL’s advice on this!! Stay strong.

  • Any woman who engages in a relationship with a married man is an absolute idiot.

    I could not get my head around how my closeted Ex husband managed to secure himself another wife. so quickly. Before we were even divorced he had moved all his things to her house including his prize possession, an up right piano. All while denying they were in a relationship. Two weeks later our divorce is granted and surprise their relationship is announced on Facebook along with a photo of our collective children. and where is this photo taken??? on the same lounge that my Ex professed that he loved me and wanted to make our marriage work during fake marriage counselling with the church elders before D’day. The same elders who helped him groom her into believing that my ex husband is her gift from God. Lets ignore that you began your relationship with my ex-husband before he had even been served let alone divorced
    but It was all just a friendship till it was a relationship and it was only a relationship because they said it was…………. oh please what is this, high school? you are both 40+ people are not stupid, if you are spending all your time with a married man or messaging him multiple times a day, you are having an affair.

    • Thankful, only two weeks later, and in your church, are you serious?!! I am so sorry. They suck. Such arrogance parading around like that. Reprehensible.

      • I was really pissed at the time but I am learning that it is a mark of their character not mine, he knew I would have seen the photo and known where it was taken, it was a deliberate attempt to piss me off and that both he and she had the same photo as their time line photo was so childish. it also pissed off my eldest as he had not seen his father for months and on the one rare occasion happened to be there and consented to the photo and to find it was used as propaganda for the relationship did not go down well.

    • oh and yes she too is a mother of a child in our youngest child’s class. I have endured the whole look down their nose routine from her and her cronies in the playground. I have hidden in fear of having my every move scrutinised. My character has been slandered because he convinced her that he was the victim of non physical violence and she has unwittingly repeated the lies to those who would listen. While this was going on and he was creating this great public profile for himself through his relationship with her I was being subjected to his unrelenting emotional abuse in the back ground through his refusal to comply with court orders and stalling proceedings for 9 months, which triggered less than favourable responces because all I wanted to do was pull his head off and stick it on a spike in the middle of the playground.

      two weeks ago I got my power back and now I do not give a shit and I will be using the above advise, from now on when I see them I will put my head up and shoulders back and smile knowing she is stuck with the cock sucker.

      • Nice visual. Cheater’s head on a spike – in the middle of the playground. I understand your rage. I am looking forward to meh but sometimes it seems a long way off.

      • The odds are at least one of her weak, pathetic cronies will have their partner cheat and dump them for an OW. I think the chances may be even greater if you factor in karma or law of the universe taking effect. The OW is stuck with a lying loser, so karma has already struck. Should be funny when he finds another idiot to slander HER.

    • Thankful…..^^same^*. Gotta love the AP’s Facebook ” In a relationship” announcement a hot second after they leave.
      Yes….”in a relationship”with a cheater, a liar, and somebody else’s husband.Btw, it’s not “a relationship” it’s a con.

      • LOL – Mine went from “Married to Rumblekitty” to “In a relationship with AP” overnight. Then he wondered why our mutual friends were talking shit about it. He was, and will always be, clueless.

      • Mine removed our wedding anniversary from his electronic calendar the day he moved out. After more than 30 years of marriage, I found it fairly heartless that he thought to do that so quickly. Of course, I am the one who kicked him out so perhaps it is understandable. He didn’t know I could see his calendar, so he didn’t do it to hurt me … just revealed his true feelings without knowing it.

  • HBBB I am so sorry for the pain you have to endure!

    Living in close proximity with a disrespectful cheating STBXH and a delusional OW while preserving your sanity and your children’s innocence is nothing short of crazy-making!

    If you haven’t started yet, please go and see a therapist specialized in trauma and domestic abuse.

    As you lawyer up, stop communicating with your husband over the phone, keep all communications over email or text, or a software that is court approved (e.g. talking parents, ourfamilywizard).

    Cheaters have the upper hand as long as you feel shared shame about their actions. I got over that one rather quickly once I had proof of his affair and really trusted that he sucked, I started singing like a canary:

    When people asked me why I was divorcing, I said “because of his adultery.”

    When people asked me who that new young girl was, I said “his mistress.”

    If you have proof of their affair, offer to show friends and people who don’t believe you. I haven’t had to show any of my proof, but people saw I was serious in having proof to back up my claims. Those who can’t handle that kind of story I have spent less time with. Others have said how much they admire my dignity and focus on my kiddo in the aftermath of DDay/Divorce.

    Over time, I have also been practicing my conspiratorial smile – Every time I see my X (which is at school events or at exchanges), I smile like I know something he does not. No word exchanged, but I know he wonders what I have up my sleeve every time. Use that conspiratorial smile of “I know what’s coming your way” each time you encounter the OW, she will lose her air of superiority quite fast.

    Secrecy and shared shame are the sweetest cake to cheaters. The moment you expose cheaters and their OW/OM, you remove yourself from the triangle and start creating your own life… I know it is a tall order to get there when you share kids with a cheater HBBB, so keep reading, keep posting for support and ideas, you got this!

    • “Secrecy and shared shame are the sweetest cake to cheaters.” This is a really good insight, Chumptitude. Narcissists love to shame you into compliance, even better if they can shame you over their secrets and keep you quiet while they go about smearing you.

      It’s always tricky to navigate this game with them, but I will say it helped me get some of my power back during the divorce process to make occasional, indirect references to some of the secrets he was afraid I would expose.

      HBBB, I hope you can take the advice here, take back your power, and file on his ass ASAP.

      • “it helped me get some of my power back during the divorce process to make occasional, indirect references to some of the secrets he was afraid I would expose.”

        Same here Other Kat, may cheaters’ and their APs’ dark deeds stick to their psyche and reputation like tar!

    • I just waited and when people asked how I felt about him moving on (they waited a few months to launch the ‘new’ relationship) I would say ” I don’t have a problem with him being in a relationship I have no intention of going back, but the extensive overlap between this relationship and ours is what i have an issue with”

  • Heartbroken – The issue isn’t the OW, it’s your husband. Imagine what kind of vile things he said about you the OW, so that she hates you this much. It’s your husband you need to be upset at mostly. He’s the one who pitted the OW against you. This triangulation b.s. is so common with cowardly cheaters. The OW is dumb enough to buy your hubsand’s blather about you. And the OW and you can go at it, fight over this moron of a guy that you call husband. I agree with others, you need to divorce him asap.

    • I’m sure the OW has bought the cheater bullshit about Heartbroken and their “dead marriage.” But smirking as she walks past? That’s cruel and sadistic.

      • I’m going to project a little here and further suggest that OW may not have just bought whatever sorry story this guy has told her — she may also have bought some fiction or trumped up trumpeted fact of the *positives* of your role in his life.

        I’m sure she isn’t comfortable. And I’ll bet they have had a few rows about “stop talking about your ex”, and his likely proud and defensive response that “she will always be the mother of my children; of course I still love her; some part of me will always love her”. This happens a lot even in legit next relationships.

        So have heart; there may be a different spun on why she looks so smug when she sees you. It isn’t necessarily that she won him away from you. She may be frustrated at how the prize isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

        I’m going to say the rainbows have started to look more like cardboard toilet paper tunnels. This is where you get to let go with both hands; just guess that this man is fixing her up to be a lower pedestal than you, whenever it suits him.

        No matter what mask she ever wears in front of you, he’s still the biggest problem. I can almost guarantee he whips out some beautiful remembrance or compliment of you, to her, whenever he wants her under his thumb and twisting for his approval, praise, and full attention.

        Which, like you, she will never get.

        That woman is in some degree of pain. And on some level it’s worse than what’s deserved. He’s doing that to her. Don’t take her mask personally: there’s something in their dynamic where he is treating her really badly, and she’s broadcasting that to you whether she wants to or not.

  • Ex’s whore was a nasty bitch, too. I’d met her a few times long ago. Had a bad impression, even then. But ex had put her on a pedestal, she’s so (fill in the blank with anything good) and I think I was doing it too.

    Then I finally confronted the bitch. She was so nasty and ugly to me. I was shocked, cause the RIC had fed me all the stories about how your husband cheats with these whores cause they have something you don’t. I think I had been jealous of this whore before that. But I got over it real quick that day. If that foul mouthed, revolving door crotch cum bucket is appealing to the ex, he is not the guy for me!!! Never communicated with the slut again.

  • When a spouse wants space give it to them. File.

    And thinking about killing a dog is totally fucked up, first to consider it and then to post this. Get some professional help.

    • I think the utter despair and rage of what’s been done to us can turn any of us slightly insane. I’ve fantasised about all kinds of things because I was so hurt and shocked by what had been done to me and my children, so I wouldn’t criticise someone in our position who admits to revenge fantasies.

      • Having just recently gone through the grieving process over losing my lab, while in the care of my STBX, and was perfectly healthy, that comment did upset me. Yes, I’m sure we’ve all entertained revenge fantasies concerning the X or the OW, but thoughts of killing an innocent animal would never enter my thoughts.

        • I agree 100% with you Lelibelle!
          I now understand how someone can honestly plead temporary insanity to acts of violence.
          Victims of abuse need to get away from their abusers (cheating, lying, narcistic spouses are abusers) to protect themselves even from themselves! Leaving such a spouse is not abandonment, giving up, or breaking up a family!
          Maybe it hit me so hard because I had been a chump for so long! I sacrificed everything and tolerated a lot for the sake of family before the pieces of the puzzle finally came together and I could not be deceived by him any longer.
          Thank you CL for being a voice and support for Chumps everywhere! Chumps do not have to go down the road alone anymore!

    • In HBBB’s defense, there is a huge difference between thinking about it and actually doing it. During the early days post DD, your head goes to some black places. The thought of killing Xh, Ow & myself (or some combo) was pretty strong for about a year. Grief can make you entertain some fucked up notions.

      • I think another way of looking at it is not so much a dog, a child, or anything … but rather, what means the most to the OW that you could take away from her, because she took away something close to you (your husband). So the mind wanders to how to get “like” revenge … take something away from her and make her suffer. I think a lot of us have thoughts like this either directly, or indirectly, and some people express them and others don’t. They are brief and then you discard them right away. If you can maintain your filter in the face of grief, then that says something about how strong you are.

        I redirected my revenge into a different way of thinking … okay, husband thinks OW is the easy life? Well, what if something happened to something she holds dear, her dog, her kid, her grandkid … OW would be a basketcase, easy street would cease to exist, husband would all of a sudden have to take care of OW in her trauma or leave her, like he did us, and life would not be so good for them, and poor hubby would then be living a “real” life which he was trying to hard to escape. This way of thinking led to me to be thankful that I wasn’t involved in their current drama, or any drama that might happen to them in the future. Meaning, be happy that they are not in my life anymore.

        It’s a weird transition from originally wanting revenge, but it’s a good one, more healthy … but it came from the initial thought of revenge on her, and some not-so-nice thoughts.

        • A few months after divorce was final and X was still love bombing OW, one of her children was killed in a tragic accident. I feel for her, as a mother, but did she care about the pain she inflicted on me and my kids?
          They have since moved in with each other. Knowing how X is incapable of compassion and empathy, I can’t help but wonder how this has changed their dynamic. His money talks, I suppose. Being a gold digger, this may be enough for her.
          How does the discarded spouse process this turn of fate?

      • HBBB didn’t think it, say it or post. She was the letter CL was responding to. It was a post/reply by another chump (ChumpLisa if I recall correctly). Not to call anyone out, but HBBB wrote to get advice and that wasn’t part of her letter.

    • DoingMe…that was a pretty nasty and cruel post you made. It does you no credit. There are times for nearly everyone when they’re under intense stress, that they can have thoughts can reflect their suffering that they’re not proud of. Some compassion and understanding can go a long way. You need some professional help to become a better person!

      • My ex offered to house sit and care for my animals when my son and I went on a short vacation. I did not take him up on that offer for any number of reasons, but mostly because he knows that if he really wanted to hurt me he could do something to my animals and probably not spend a single day in legal trouble. So the comment about hurting a dog really hit a trigger for me. Plus, the way she wrote it did not sound like just revenge fantasy talk (which I totally get and am guilty of myself) but rather than actual plan that friends had to talk her out of. To harm an animal would be the same as harming a child to me and completely not okay. I think even in this safe space it is okay to speak out against potential animal cruelty. We all get that we are hurt, damaged, and somewhat less sane than we once were … but there are limits, even here.

      • My X wanted visiting rights with one of our dogs. The first and only thing that came to my mind is that the OW would try and poison her because I wouldn’t have put it past her. Or pinch her behind his back. Or be cruel in some other way.
        Let’s just say, I never let him see my dogs again.

        A cheater would probably think these things but, as a chump, the slut became nothing to me, rightfully so, so I never had any fantasies about revenge on her. She can fuck off.

        Dog lovers, myself included, would definitely take offense to that comment because I did as well. Hurt me but never hurt my dog!

      • OnlyMe

        I didn’t feel it was nasty at all. It was a very humane response. It wasn’t a fantasy. She was justifying killing the dog to hurt the OW and had to be talked out of it by friendS.

        My family is involved in rescuing dogs and have raised thousands of dollars annually. We take an active role by fostering dogs. Damn, if I’m not going to object to that comment.

    • How dare you judge me! At the time this woman took my life away. Both kids were in therapy! I thought of the one thing that would make he feel the hell I was going through. I am past that and working now. I have a great boyfriend and the kids are happy. I swallowed a lot of shit sandwiches. Telling me to get some help. Fuck You.

      • I understand chumplisa but the OW didn’t fuck up your life. Your X did. Hope you can keep that in perspective.

        • Actually, the ows did fuck our life two, if only they know not to open their legs to a married man. Don’t tell me you don’t hate the ow either.

          • Sad face – I understand. But no, I don’t hate the OW – my x-BFF who led me on.
            She’s pathetic and low-class and deserves exactly NONE OF MY HEADSPACE.
            Fuck that.

      • Chumplisa I’m sorry but I think you’ve been bullied by a number of people on this site. And I know it feels horrible. The majority of us know exactly how you feel and why you would say what you did. And it was only an aside when you were trying to be supportive of someone else. And that’s what we should all be doing – being supportive even if at times sometimes we come out with crackpot statements because that is what the hurt of infidelity does to us.

        • omg – Chumplisa is a physician with access to poison?
          And, people had to ‘talk her out of actually doing it’?

          I gotta go take a hiatus for the rest of the month…

          • Shechump, Please open your heart and listen to what Lelibelle said!
            Chumplisa was humble enough to open her heart for the benefit of others and share a horrific emotional episode that she was not proud of. It was an excellent example of how deep the hurt and trauma of infidelity is. It can cause the most stable person to snap! She was grateful for her friends who helped her reign in and see clearly. We all need friends like that and the support and understanding from other chumps.
            Chumplisa, thanks for sharing! I am happy you and your children made it to the other side and are doing well!

            • Thank you Nyra. It is NOT in my make-up to criticize another chump when their thoughts are in the middle of the Rabbit Hole.
              I do apologize, Chumplisa. This is NOT an animal-rights issue at all and yes, we do need to reign our thoughts in when it comes to understanding the thoughts we all had at the time. My thoughts were firmly that the Ow would poison my dogs, so yeah, I guess I’m a bit sensitive about that.

              When I was at dog shows and the X was supposedly dog-sitting the other 4 dogs, he kenneled them for the 4 days once I was gone and, without my knowledge.
              And, the OW moved into my house with her 3 dogs!
              The fucking gall!
              I guess we all have triggers.
              But, to me, that was the absolute worst part of the divorce.
              She could have poisoned my dogs at the house.

              Of course, that is off-topic here, but it is a super trigger for some people whose dogs were used as bait in their Game of Lies.

      • Bullshit, a kind and ethical person would never have to be talked out of killing a dog or other companion animal. You do need help.

  • And I agree with the other posters, the cheaters and whores LOVE it when you act jealous, insecure, desperate to fight for your man, etc. When you let them know you don’t want that bucket of trash any longer, not so much.

    • I know. It’s funny how the relationship with the cheater and the AP disintegrates once the innocent spouse is out of the picture. Then their twu luv is no longer and they no longer have a common enemy (the innocent spouse), and therefore, have to get along, really get to know each other and all of a sudden, life isn’t as glamorous and rosy anymore.

      • Kellia, you are so right! Once I divorced my husband and he moved to Schmoopies condo it all fell apart! His entire family wanted nothing to do with him or her. They made it clear that she was not welcome near them, thier kids or any family event. Schmoopie didn’t like that at all! Once the Ex had to live with his perfect little slut, she turned out to be extremely controlling. It was her way or no way at all! Then Mr. Sparkles got cancer! Uh oh! Schmoopie was dialing up anyone who would talk to her to try to unload his decaying carcass! It took all of four months for the love affair of the century to fall to shit! Schmoopie also had jealousy issues with me. You know, the little insecurities that pop up like, “is my cooking better than your wife’s?”, “Do you ever worry about your wife?”, “Are you thinking about your wife, kids, etc?” She was unrelenting. These idiots know absolutely nothing about the nut jobs they are porking and once they have to shack up with thier perfect little angels the cheater finds she ain’t so perfect! Trust me Chumps, Karma doesn’t just roll over these assholes. Karma takes residence at their “love shack” and turns the fantasy into a house of horror. Add to that the fact that the divorce usually breaks these assholes financially and it turns ugly fast!

        • Roberta, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. I cannot tell you how I thought it was funny that their twu luv courtship lasted a mere 4 months. And your ex ended up with a neurotic jealous basket case, and she ended up with a cancerous rotting carcass. I must say, they both ended up with each other’s leftovers. And add financial ruin to the mix, why it’s a match made in heaven. Looks like it was a win-win for you all around, losing an asshat and gaining a life! So very happy for you!

          • Well, hearing all this karma-bus dance has definitely picked me up – wondering about them on the other side of this mess.

            However, since we’re being all extra sensitive today about killing dogs and people…like many others here…we are cancer survivors and many of us have survived it through this horrible process of d-day and divorce. So, nope, I never really thought of myself as a rotting carcass but I know I will be someday.

            For the record, and NO, I’m not *smirking* one bit. But, the day our divorce was final, the X got diagnosed with prostate cancer and the whole thing had to come out. Doubt she hung around that rotting carcass for long. (me bad!) He can’t take Viagra because of his heart.

  • So what I am about to type is NOT me justifying anything for the OW or taking her side. It is, rather, a perspective shift away from her (she does not matter, she is just one of a thousand faceless robots, in the end) to him (he matters because he is the one who is actually the problem.)

    Regarding her snark, think about her position from her shoes for a bit. She clearly has no self worth or she wouldn’t skank around with a married guy, and the kids (all of them) just make the choice more horrifying. She probably has swallowed a bunch of lies from him about you and is using all of that to justify her choice in her mind.

    My point is that she is probably giving you snark as much because she thinks his dumbass stories about you are true and you are completely awful to him and the kids as because she is gloating as the OW. So, if you play into the “she’s awful” game by being mean to her, you unwittingly reinforce the lies.

    Again, I am not saying she matters, but I am saying it is important that you don’t give her, and therefore him, more ammo while you are trying to divorce and get custody. She may be, twisted as it is, feeling protective of YOUR kids, and that may motivate her to do insane things.

    I’m only saying it because I’ve seen it. It’s messed up, but it’s common anyway. Hard as it is, I suggest trying to consider her a pitiful non-issue. He is your problem. Solve that, and this lady becomes just another misguided skank for your purposes.

    He’s the douchebag. Don’t let him dilute your focus on that by getting you to focus energy on her. My two cents.

    • This. 1000x this.

      Plus, dynamics change a lot if you can find compassion or “meh” about the OW. Sometimes the cheater’s triangulation backfires then, which is satisfying.

    • Yes. He is the problem. And yes L7, he enjoys the attention from triangulation. My STBX kept asking if I really loved him or if this was just a competition I didn’t want to lose. Well, I shouldn’t have needed to compete at all because I was his wife! And the OW was pathetic and disgusting and so not my competition. I would win based on honor and integrity alone anyway. It wasn’t about how great she was (or was not). He said it was about how she made him feel special. So shallow and self-centered. He is the problem.

      • ^^^^^

        It’s all about the cheater’s ‘feelings’. It isn’t even specifically about the OP. XH, trying to justify & blame shift said to me ‘s makes me feel good about myself’ (and the implied I made him feel bad about himself). Looked him dead in the eye & asked him ‘a woman who encourages you to lie, cheat on your wife and encourages you to violate your principles makes you feel good about yourself?’ (Won’t get into the part where he NEVER had integrity in the first place :/) Took him a bit to finally say yes, THAT was the thing that made him feel good about himself.

        They just don’t get it. All that free pussy is the what gives them self esteem. Goes to show you how fucked in the head they really are. Now, 6 years later, OW may/may not hear the same speach. Despite NC, I know there are OOW who make/made him feel good about himself. Must be tough, being such a huge POS, needing all that pussy to counterbalance being such a jitbag. So, yeah, OW (not even OW #1, either) you WIN. 😉

        • Waffles,
          Exactly. That is the prize the OW (I hesitate to use the word woman on such a dumbass) receives. Good luck with that. I know Durtbag has maintained his harem and probably has one or two side pieces also.
          Durtbag had a name for his addictive personality (he is in alcohol recovery for 10 years, supposedly), Slick. Slick is always in the picture. Poor slick can’t blame his shit behavior on alcohol anymore, so he claimed I was an alcoholic. Project much? I paid all the bills, worked a well paying job, supported him and his mom, and no-one bought that I have a problem, other than his recently recruited new “friends.” Fool lost everything, including the respect of his friends and what was left of the respect from his family (except for His mother). Now he owes the IRS and will not be able to buy a home for him and schmoopie and his mom.
          As for the dog thing, I see both sides to this dilemna. It felt like a punch in the stomach to hear that anyone would think of harming a dog (there is a woman on here whose dogs were murdered by the stbxh). I also understand the rage and wanting to hurt the people that hurt us. I think the concerning thing for many is that the statement was not followed by an “I would never do that of course” disclaimer. I appreciate the honesty but it is triggering, especially since we have all already been placed in the agony and u certainty and pure hell of learning we were married to/in a relationship with a narc sociopath cheater. I have been fighting to keep my dog and it made me think Durtbag could hurt my dog. I do believe we have an obligation to stand up for those who can’t speak for themselves.
          Sorry to bring it up again.

    • I agree the main problem is with cheater hubby, and his narrative that Heartbroken was an awful wife. But we all have someone we think is awful, and we don’t act contemptuously to them. The OW is a bitch, and let’s hope Heartbroken’s STBX reaps the full benefits of that bitchhood for at least a decade.

      • Totes agree. I just think cheaters get away with pushing responsibility off on the APs to take heat off of themselves (and get better outcomes in divorces/breakups) and it’s important that we don’t let them do that to us.

        • “pushing responsibility off on the APs to take heat off of themselves”

          This alone makes the cheater despicable, using AP as scapegoat and human shield.

          I mean, you kind of have to feel sorry for APs. This is not love, and I’d be willing to bet that it bears zero resemblance to whatever fantasy was being concocted or pursued on either side.

          Used. How can you not feel bad, even just a little, for someone who is being used.

          • Sorry, I never feel sorry for any willing affair partner over the age of 18. Choose the behavior, choose the consequences.

            • Anita, I totally appreciate your response. I am trying to adjust my usual thinking — which is that too many people reach “adulthood” without enough corresponding psychological sophistication. That’s my arrogance talking; when people betray, I think it is because they are just stupid, or not mature enough to make right decisions with integrity.

              I always think they can learn from their mistakes, because that’s what I do. So it’s yet another blind spot for me, and I am coming to grips with the apparent fact that I have several. 🙁

              I was clueless when I was 18, a babe in the woods. I realized at 30 that I was still clueless, although I liked 30 better. Now at 47 I am just resigned to my life as being one of constant learning. One of the really valuable lessons I learned this past year was the art of No Quarter.

              Thank you for reinforcing that one. It’s probably the most important for me.

              • You are welcome, Lucky Seven. I found that when I was heavily into the RIC, my thoughts were being clouded regarding right/wrong, good/bad, etc and I was getting confused. Some of these cheaters were getting my sympathy. That’s not what they need, it won’t help them. The thing that will help them is to admit their wrongdoing, accept full responsibility for it, and correct their bad behavior.

      • Tempest, cheater will indeed reap the benefits of the OW’s bitchiness once the divorce is final. These bitches have to triangulate to justify thier shit behavior and poking at the wife keeps them amused. Once my divorce was final the OW would send, out of the blue, nasty little messages. Mind you, once I was divorced I left them totally alone. But she suddenly took an interest in stirring the pot occasionally. I ignored her snipes. My Ex told me that once he moved into her home that she was obsessed with comparing herself to me. Also constantly asking the Ex if he was thinking about me, worried about me, missing me, etc. Karma takes a lot of forms and her obsession with comparing herself to me drove him crazy. My Ex said it caused many fights between them and little old me didn’t have to lift a finger in revenge to cause the demise of the great love affair. Schmoopie did it all herself! She turned into a nasty, demanding bitch. Especially when he told her he wasn’t going to marry her!

    • This is kind of where I have been in regards to the Ho-Worker. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I will call her a whore to anyone who will listen and she’s a horrible person, but I don’t really have any emotions invested in her success or failure in life in general. In the last few months I have come to appreciate what a lying piece of garbage my STBX really is. Like fucking crazy, that never happened making shit up crazy that I think he actually believes. Some of the things that I thought I knew about his past turned out to be wrong. I can only imagine what kind of lies he is telling her… and she has no way to verify anything because it’s not like they were able to be a real couple… where they went out together and she could meet “our friends” (He doesn’t have any friends), she will never get to know his family or anything. What must he be telling her? She’s in deep with him, and he’s most likely constructed a whole narrative about how he’s going to have a successful business and be a millionaire and never have to work and how smart he is. None of this is true, but she’s young and dumb and it sounds good. He’s doing the impression management and she’s buying it. I don’t wish her every success in life, I don’t wish her harm… I am able to analytically say “She got tangled up with a giant douchebag and it’s probably going to end badly. Sucks for her and I hope she doesn’t get pregnant and they bring a kid into that mess.” But I don’t have anything to say to her. Any smirks or comments that she might throw my way would be inconsequential to me. She’s kind of just nothing to me.

      • I am almost with you CG. My problem is that mine actively lied to me, stayed in my home while I was there also, and basically chose to fuck me over. I know how convincing Durt can be, but we had just gotten married and I sent her some very innocent texts, because I was suspicious and she actively participated in the colossal lies, deceit and cheating.
        She will find out the price she won eventually, but I hope she suffers greatly.

  • HBBB- I think CL covered it pretty well but let me leave you with this thought: When someone is dumb enough to walk away, be smart enough to let them go.”

    Don’t let him eat cake. Get a pit bull attorney and file for divorce! That will give the MoFO all the space he desires. Also, don’t get riled up about the OW. It’s just as much of a waste of time as they are a waste of oxygen. Let her have him. Let her believe she “won.” You know the truth.

  • Yes, if you can start the process ASAP… once he noticed he will have to take care of 6 kids that will be his Karma. Because he is not paying a pension everyrhing is fine. Just do it & for your piece of mind move from that place when you get the chance. I wish you the best! hugsss!!!

  • In my case, the other woman is a man. My cheater is telling all kinds of lies to his family and friends to protect his guilty secret that he is bisexual. The result from all these lies is that he has ensured that he can never actually be an open partner with OM and he never wanted to be anyway. He likes multiple partners of both genders and now that he will soon be single, I don’t think he has any intention of limiting his “options” in any way.

    The OM is disgusting, both physically but more so as a person. He was always condescending and arrogant to me and now I know why. He knew something I did not and that gave him great satisfaction. But what he does not know is that cheater was cheating on us both with other women. Now OM thinks and hopes that cheater will choose him exclusively. That is not going to happen and he is going to be sadly disappointed. And that gives ME great satisfaction. Anyone who chooses to have an affair with a married man for 30 years deserves to win that “prize” with all the deceit, lies, and betrayal that comes with it.

    Never, ever would I ever consider harming an animal to get back at these creeps. I hope that poster seeks some help soon.

  • They are pods pure and simple. Pods have no character, no empathy, no decency. No nothing. Listen to yracy and create your own space to heal. Divorce the pod tell the kids the truth age appropriate and get him out of your space. Nothing pisses them off more than a straightened backbone, steely eyes and short terse answers. I act like asswipe was never in my life it drives him nuts. I talk over him, change the subject and dismiss him just like he did to me.

    I realeased a cheating, lying distespectful bastard pod which is what that whore wants and he gets a pod who will sleep with anyone.

    The day we were divorced i told him good luck with that and two months later they broke up for the fourth time.

    Save yourself…..from the pods.

    • “I talk over him, change the subject and dismiss him just like he did to me.”

      Kar Marie – I enjoy reading your posts about how you got your power back and are treating him the way he treated you. And how he’s coming back grovelling, realizing the OW isn’t as perfect as he thought she was. I love how you have a voice! Please keep sharing your stories. And breaking up for the 4th time, that is just pathetic and reeks of co-dependency! So glad he’s out of your life.

      • Im no longer married to him but hes not out of my life just yet. Hes buying the house from me and financing finally going through wont be long now! In the meantime i am enjoying the hell out of the misery he brought down on himself. I mean laugh until my sides hurt glee right in front of him. He hates it and the new indifferent me baffles him beyond belief! Im loving this watching him twist in the wind with his needs viagra slong hanging out while he spinning in circles. Serves him right! Once i move he gets crickets i even downloaded a crickets wave file on my phone to send him. He got what he wanted now live with it! Very attractive site fir a 60 year old. Not!

  • Heartbroken, here’s the truth: You are now free to pursue a Better Life. Both CHEATERS are first class idiots and world class fuck ups. Truth is, They deserve one another. I knew there was no hope of saving my marriage (my husband was fucking his racquetball partner) the moment I figured out there was someone else. Discovering the affair was like an epiphany. No wonder my marriage was crap. I believe God led me to the Truth as He didn’t want me to waste a second more of my life on a POS. Yes, the disordered get off on triangulation. Ex’s AP/now OWife pasted her picture on his athletic profile then put up a FB page letting the world know he was in a relationship with *her*. How…Special. ;D As hurtful as it was (28 years and 3 children together) I also recognized the blatant humor in it; truth is he had always been a crap husband (cheating in a marriage requires a whole different mindset). Once you recognize that you are free of that, you will begin to recognize that you have won an authentic life. There is no happily ever after with a Cheating spouse and who would want to spend one minute more with a spouse who lies to his family? As for the community, most people see what’s going on. You just go on and be your best self. Also go No Contact too (keep it all on email, texting is for people who have your back). In those early months (years, lol) I exercised, blasted music, grieved, and righteously supported my kids. Best wishes. I know it’s hard.

    • Yes! No contact! Stop talking to and texting with this guy, other than to arrange pickups and drop-offs for the kids. Drew is right: texting is for people who have your back.

  • The OW in my case is my ex’s best friends girlfriend. Mind you he’d been friends with this gentleman since grade school, and he and this skank (as I now refer to her) had been living together for 15 years. Who really knows how long this affair had been going on but I do know this: they got caught by the friend, the friend immediately booted her from the house (that he owned), she threatened to “tell me” which precipitated Dday, and as a result I am now skank/whore/cheater free. It is me that wears the smirk when I have to see the ex. My attitude is “look what you won! A huge amount of debt, a life void of all your friends, and the best of all? A Skank!! How exciting??!!”. Freedom is my prize, and it will be yours too HBBB, hang in there and start practicing your smirk!!!! All the best, XOXO

  • Wait and see how the dynamic changes once this POS, non-man receives divorce paperwork… Yeah, now the the Hostess factory is getting ready to shut the fuck down, and an unreal sense of fear will well up in douchebag. Cold turkey from cake, and primal fear and anger of having to pay up BIG $$$ in the form of alimony, child support, etc… Know this cowardly POS will try to go all scorched earth on you, the lying will astound you, as will this sub humans ability to seemingly care less if the kids are used as pawns. I have seen all of this up close and personal when I divorced my cheating sluwhore, so be ready for it.

    Have none of it, and have your lawyer destroy with extreme prejudice, any attempts to deprive you of a very fair settlement. This is nothing short of war, and you will regain strength, and hope… I made it, and so will you. Best of luck, we are all pulling for you!

    • Asswipe told whore juice when i came in his life i was just like medicine!
      Fucking medicine!?!?!?!?
      Not anything else just the medicine he needed. Nice to be referred to as medicine, not a great person, smart, funny, great mom, no fucking medicine!
      Well i told him this medicine bottle is empty where you asswipe are concerned with dr. Fuck you pod offering no refills. Medicine. News to me i was always told wonderful good sweet things about myself from him til he met whore juice and morphed back into a fifteen year old pathetically trying to recover his bad boy youth and whore juice never matured past junior high. How incrediably sad. He said he still needs me in his life even just on the sly or he will be miserable. Needs me, now? Cause she aint all it? She aint the perfectful and flawless creature he thought she was. That her groveling, asskissing and worshiping at his feet wasnt real? That they have nothing in common other than her money and bondage sex, that she pretended to love all the things he does? She wanted him to be the boss while she played the slave? Tables have turned on him now, she now wants the power and wants him jumping. I always believed in a fair and equal partnership so did he till her or maybe not. Medicine indeed! Hes on all kinds of pills and drugs now cause he cant cope with life. Let him suffer what he brought down on his head cause he takes it all out on her and she aint medicine she feeds the demons and feeds her own. Asshole i got your medicine right here! My response to being referred to as nothing more that medicine will be complete and utter silence. And that my fellow chumps is something medicine cant fix. She will suffer the wrath of the great asswipe. Maybe he will go to jail for hitting her. I would really enjoy that!

      • Ah ha ha, he told you you’re like medicine, when he’s the highly medicated one, with pills and drugs to cope with life. What a buffoon.

      • Yes, so true. Durt wanted a puppet because he couldn’t control me completely. He will get bored quickly and they will suffer u see his huge debt load with the IRS and various banks, as well as his horrible credits and her lack of credit. Too bad, so sad. I am going to buy some pipcorn so once his mother moves out of my home, I can enjoy the show. Mediation in T-minus 36. It will go nowhere of course.
        As to heartbreak, please file. You deserve a better life. Alone is better than this, and you will find someone who shares your values if you so choose, after you heal.

    • 5jumpchump – Great post. Thank you for sharing this, it’s empowering advice you gave to lawyer up and have no mercy.

  • don’t make the mistake of focusing on the OW. cheaters like that, it takes the focus off of them. then all anyone will be talking about is the cat fight between the women. like everyone else has said, she didn’t win anything. if i ever saw the OW, i would just smirk and laugh, because in my head i would be thinking that she has nooo idea how happy i am that she took him off my hands.

    • I sometimes think cheaters have an aspect that loves watching UFC. In the case of two women in a love triangle, that’s just porn for the cheater.

      Don’t indulge him. Imagine how much more peaceful your brain and heart will feel if you let this all go. With any luck, if you do, the OW will also get to calm down, and ultimately see this bozo between you for what he truly is.

      Because right now, he is a very real obstacle to you both — you and the OW, you mothers — taking care of your respective three young children.

      This guy is an asshole. He is stealing all the focus away from SIX YOUNG CHILDREN, and two adult women who are both really bright in their own respective ways. Even if that OW is a cheater or OW. She’s still a mom too, and this guy you are going to divorce, he’s cheating her out of her motherhood, and the simple (and arduous) joys of being with those kids. The same way he’s doing to you. She got snowed, same as you.

      Divorce him, and divorce yourself from his triangulation. He’s set up a cage fight, and your heart is the heart of a mother. You get out of that stupid triangle.

      Ok? (((HUGS)))

    • Great point! Focusing on the OW just makes the cheater feel like he has two ladies fighting for him… sounds like a dream scenario for most asshats. Let him know you dont want his used up butt, and the OW can have fun playing with your garbage!

      • Reminds me of when I discovered that Mr. Cheaterpants had an OW in California. He whined to me, “Do you know how awful it is to have TWO women fighting over you?!?” Boo-fucking-hoo, Mr. Cheaterpants.

        Seems it never occurred to him how awful it is to find out your boyfriend has TWO girlfriends. (And a wife, it turned out. The guy was a real piece of work.)

  • HBBB, your STBX (we all hope) has done you the immense favor of moving out. He’s abandoned the family! He has his own apartment! You have no legal impediment to changing those locks, bagging up his stuff, and putting it all out for him or the garbage collectors to pick up. You won’t have the horror of living in the same house with him during the divorce or wondering if the AP has been in the kitchen. And filing for alimony and child support with three kids and a husband who has decamped into an apartment for a year–that’s a lot easier legally than sad sausage claiming you kicked him out. You have already lived through the worst of it, the abandonment itself. Now onto the survival basics.

    1. Do a search for all the financial documents. You may not know what he took with him until you do that search. Copy all the documents. Put the originals somewhere safe where STBX can’t access them. Stow a copy for yourself. And fill a box with copies for him when his lawyer makes him ask for them. If he took important documents, make a list and request copies when your lawyer tells him to.
    2. Lawyer up right now. Don’t worry about the money it will cost. You have three kids and your future to protect. Get a tough advocate with a track record of getting the best possible settlement. And do not tip your hand on this. If you’ve already done this–good for you.
    3. With said lawyer, make a plan and timeline for filing for alimony and child support.
    4. Make sure your support network is fired up and ready to help you.
    5. Do a credit check. Get tested for STDs. Take a hard look at credit card receipts.
    6. Open your own bank accounts at a new bank. Follow your lawyer’s advice on handling joint accounts and how to time all that.
    7. Think about what you will need to do if you are not already working. Do you need rehabilitative alimony to go back to work? Will you need a childcare provider?
    8. Make sure your lawyer negotiates a BIG life insurance policy on Cheaterpants, payable to you, that will take the kids through college if something happens to him. Get language on that in the divorce settlement.
    9. Go for full custody. If he is still married and playing house with Schmoopie and your kids, a good lawyer might be able to limit how much time he spends overnight with the kids. As in maybe none.

    Until you get a child support and visitation agreement in place, you are in a terrible position. He has all the cards because you are high on hopium and doing the pick me dance. File for divorce. Get custody. You are holding onto something that is already dead because you have three small kids and you are rightfully traumatized and afraid. But clinging to that old dream won’t protect your kids financially, emotionally or legally. And every day you wait, he’s in a better position. Levy some harsh consequences on his cheating ass. You want to make the OW uncomfortable? She’s not going to love it when he loses 500-60% of his income to mandatory child support payments, or the times he has to pony up more money for medical expenses or extras for the kids. She’ll hate the years of alimony. She’ll hate it when you get a hunk of his pension. She’ll hate it when he drags his feet over the divorce or has to pay a lawyer. She’ll hate it when everyone in your social circle knows he abandoned his kids. And at some point, you will understand that life without a jackass in it can be wonderful.

    • Excellent point–check with your lawyer about adding “abandonment” to your list of complaints, and “alienation of affection” for the OW. Probably nothing will come of the latter, but it’s nice to see the immoral squirm.

      I had a huge advantage in settlement when I threw my then-H out because he had access to none of the financial documents, and I had access to all of them.

    • HBBB – the odds are forever in your favor. With current divorce rate at 50% for first marriages and 75% for second marriages (then add in the factors of blended family/children and adultery/child support/alimony)… it ain’t gonna last for them. Get some popcorn and sit back and watch this horror flick from the comfort of your Divorce Attorney’s office.

      YOU and your kids… didn’t cause it, can’t control it, and can’t cure it. But, you can choose to step out of it. The day I filed was liberating. They day he texted me “Nice, you hired a lawyer.” was liberating. Baby steps.

      I understand completely the pain you are feeling – the primal desire to protect your children and your family… but that reality doesn’t exist anymore. Mr. Space and the OW blew that up. What you have left is you and your kids and the family you all will now create together… without the fuckwit.

      I eat a shit sandwich every other weekend watching my son going off with his Dad (and the OW and her two kids). But you know what, I now drink a nice glass of Pinot Grigio with it because the reality is the grass isn’t greener… for example, my fantasies of them having a more wonderful life together and enjoying a ski trip as a “new family” are just that, triangulating fantasies -the reality is: Mr. Sparkles sucked at skiing and ended up waiting in the car on Day 1 and on Day 2 my son refused to go tubing because of the heights. THAT is what a “blended” family has to survive… and more.

      Always be honest and age appropriate with your kids. My son feels bad that the OW’s kids don’t know about their Mom’s adultery with his Dad. And, he sees that just makes their Mom a liar – like his Dad. Be the sane parent. Be the consistent parent. Let these two ride off into the “B” movie life together.

  • The only time I would ever see the “other woman” in my case was when she was in the car when my ex came to pick up my son for visitation. It had been very clear that he was using her presence only to try to triangulate and to hurt me. She never said a word and never made eye contact. On one occasion, she even ducked under the seat when I surprised them by being outside in front, that was how conditioned she was. As I became braver, stronger and wanted to be more visible and supportive for my autistic son to help with his anxiety, I started to walk him out to the car. One of my finest moments was as I got to the car, I leaned in and introduced myself, very friendly and gracious, I said, ” I am so and so, Will’s mom”. Both she and my ex about shit their pants, they were so uncomfortable and thrown by my action. It was the beginning of taking my power back. I decided from that moment on, that they were not going to define me any more and from then on things started to change for me. Whatever their narrative was, it did not pertain to me. It has been a lot easier from that moment on, to not worry about the other woman. As you all have said, he is the problem.

    • That’s a great way to handle things, once visitation and custody has been established and the AP shows up in the car.

  • I had the golden opportunity handed to me by the OW. I had to call the ex after I threw him out, to tell him know I needed him to pay back the gym membership I had purchased for him shortly before d-day. Otherwise, I was going to add it to the things the cops were happy to retrieve for me (after he and OW robbed my house).

    OW of course leapt to the conclusion I was calling to beg him to return. She started her little victory dance by saying “I’m laying here naked with your honey, and he doesn’t want you!” I replied with a plaintive little voice “OK just promise me one thing?” Getting all generous she says “well OK what’s that”. And I shot back “don’t ever ever ever be tempted to send him back to me. Please no matter how much he cheats on you too, just DO NOT send him back”. She gasped, swore and disconnected.


    Seriiously, OP, let the OW gloat! You don’t want Asshat back! File, enjoy your freedom, and sit back while the karma bus runs them down. It never misses.

  • Watch out, because I will guarantee you that once he hears how much he’s going to be ordered to pay in child support and alimony each month, he’s going to be back, all tearful-eyed and “Now I realize that you and the children are the most important things in my life!” Don’t fall for it. He’s not going to give up the OW…. or she might dump him but he’ll find another soon enough. These fuckers never quit cheating.

    Be strong and lawyer up.

    • I echo @GladIt’sOver ‘s words completely: HeartbrokenBBB, walk away, get a lawyer, file for divorce from his cheating ass, let that bitch OW have his stupid ass!!! I know it sucks, but you deserve better than him!!!

      My exh#2/The Evil One left me because he “wasn’t happy”, and he “wanted to be alone”- he moved in to his slut-shack and was with Schmoopie/his OW that same night.

      Stay classy, my friend!!! Keep your head UP, when you see that bitch-OW, look her dead in the eye and just smile— smile. Don’t speak, just smile.


      • 100% agree! Nothing gets to them more than silence and a little knowing smile. Stay strong HeartbrokenBBB, he’s the loser. Bye Felicia!

  • It always breaks my heart to read these oh-so-familiar stories (now) about the utter torture chumps are put through. Being a chump is the disease and CL is the cure! And I pretty much always feel that CL hits the nail on the head with her advice. Today, however, the last line gave me some pause. “As for what do you tell the children? You tell them you’re divorcing. Because Daddy cheats on you. And you’re all worth too much to tolerate that.”

    To say to her children that daddy cheats on them is certainly true and I’m not saying I don’t agree with that truth. I would just worry about how that might play out in a court custody case. In my state there is court-ordered parenting class where they seem to view telling children truths like this as badmouthing the other parent. I would hate to see that used against her in such a case.

    • Agreed in full, TwinsDad.

      You want to avoid anything that can be twisted to look like alienation. It won’t be your ex or the OW driving that boat, either. Divorce attorneys know exactly what to say to get a win for their client, and if you’re dealing with an aggressive divorce attorney, count on that attorney to pad your ex’s statements with some really hot language and outrageous lies.

      Additionally, the children you’re talking about are all really young. As a mother, I don’t think it’s appropriate to introduce the concept of sex, betrayal, or relationship abandonment to children of these ages. If you do, do it with extreme care and only inform with the barest, simplest story. This is not condescension or sugarcoating: you are protecting your children’s young new minds and brains from the extreme trauma of what has happened to their family.

      They do not need to know that daddy chose OW over them and you; *they* do *not* need to dwell on why he is with those other children.

      My simplest answer when my child’s father left and divorced me was, “Daddy has a lot of work to do.” That was true. And it was all that needed to be said, for a really long time.

      Children deserve a childhood. It’s kind of not fair to lay the complexity of adult relationship on them in these earliest years.

      Ok so that’s my big opinion on telling the kids the specifics; I’m one of those who is pretty much against that. But please do be careful that if you do, you tell it softly and with care for their ongoing relationship with their father. He’s the only “true” father they’ll have; he’s their blood, even if he is no good as a husband. No matter what other father figures may come through their lives (or yours), he’s the one they will always touch on in their hearts, as “my dad”.

      I’m sorry you’re in this situation. Just know that unless he voluntarily surrenders legal custody of your kids, this is probably going to really suck for a while. Keep their hearts front and center as your most important focus, and keep the high road as much as you can.

      • What to tell the kids is the hardest thing. I think they should be told, in an age appropriate way, that when you are married there are rules and mommy or daddy broke the rules, and when you break rules there are consequences. Kids always think divorce is their fault. They fear the other parent will leave. They hold out hope for reconciliation. They need to be made to understand that the parent made bad choices that have nothing to do with them, and that the parent will always love them. But as much as we want to protect them, that perfect childhood ship has sailed, and all you can do is make the best, most stable life for them that you can, and that includes honesty from the one honest parent they have. In the long run they will know they can trust you.

        I also think it’s imperative not to triangulate with the kids or bad mouth the other parent. That eats away at a kid. (If mom/dad is scum, am I scum too since I am a part of them?) I say use good judgment and be age appropriate, but be honest.

      • While I agree that we have to be very careful not to do anything that could smack of alienation and also that this is their only dad, I do want to caution about the results of dealing with a true narc/socio and being honest with the kids. My STBX has been a pretty rotten father, he’s emotionally abusive to the kids (periodically in order to get them REAL good), uses withdrawal of affection and ignoring them as a method of control, has tried to turn them into cheap labor and has never gone to any of their events. It’s all about him.
        For a long time I spackled that behavior, telling them that their dad really loved them, he just wasn’t good at showing it, or that he was busy or whatever. Trouble is, I was constantly denying what they could see and experience with their own eyes and that just isn’t emotionally healthy. Kids need to know when behavior is emotionally healthy and when it isn’t, covering up just multiplies the abuse and makes them internalize it. Telling them the truth, when people aren’t behaving as they should and that is isn’t the kids fault is incredibly important.
        Usually when people cheat, their actions don’t just impact the spouse, they impact the kids too and kids need to know that it isn’t on them. I believe you have always said your husband was an exemplary father, and that is wonderful and a huge weight off of your mind but for many of that that isn’t true at all.

        • Serious gratitude for your clarification and counterpoint. XH, my child’s dad, is an exemplary father, and a good person — but X is not. X has extremely harmful traits and behaviors, and I definitely agree with what you’ve said here. In cases where the parent is not a good person, yes, inform and educate the children, and with therapy as needed.

          It was a blessing for me to get us away from X. I hope that you are able to do same. Thank you again for counterpoint, because, you’re absolutely right.

          • Thanks Lucky. My Hopium rests on his improving as a parent but I fear his current “efforts” are an attempt at damage control and to hurt me through the kids. They don’t trust him. Worst is my son as he is so desperate to be loved by his dad, he will buy into a lot. I’m looking at therapy and getting him into activities where he will have good male role models so if/when (and I’m sure it will be when) the discard happens it isn’t to devastating for him.
            I’m sorry you lost someone you felt was a good man. In many ways STBX’s affair was a good wake up call to how much I had put up with. You must have been beyond devastated and I can understand why you would still have moments of regret.

    • I am in the middle of the legal process right now and I am definitely being very classy about what I say to my child. I prefer to wait until my child is older before I fully explain. Only when he is older will he fully understand what a douche his fathef is. For now, ” mommies and daddies are not supposed to have girl friends and boyfriends” had been fine. I have that parenting class this weekend and do NOT look forward to hearing the RIC views.

    • I agree that some judges may consider that as parental alienation fodder, but simply telling the truth, “Daddy has a girlfriend and that is against the rules of marriage” is not editorializing. Without other evidence of parental alienation, I doubt a case could be made.

    • I had to weigh the damage done to my kids by telling them the truth with the potential damage the AP could do by contacting them without my knowledge. I told my 15 and 16 year old daughters the unvarnished truth, but did not tell my 12 year old daughter anything until I found out that the AP was contacting my daughter online trying to get information about me (she wanted my life, including my husband) . I had to tell her then. I now think it is child abuse to hide information from kids if that leaves them open to a predator like some of these wack jobs. I believe every chump needs to tell their children that the AP is a bad person and to be avoided as much as possible, but let them figure things out for themselves regarding their own parent.

      • My kids are grown but they figured out on their own whore was a phony and a fake just like their dad. I told them what he did but few details the whore proudly told them details and tried to pump them for info on me making both fairly uncomfortable. Dear old dad and whore juice forced themselves upon them no explainations necessary and and by the way disregard your mom kids her services are no longer required. The kids didnt buy the shit clamed up and told both of them not discussing mom with you and no we are not taking sides and if you make us chose we choose mom. Now asswipe has sinced learned a tremendous amount a grown man should know and has changed his tune and tactics of course falling too late in the game. Age appropriate is best mine are all over thirty and heard the full truth.

  • I prefer CL’s other line for this…”Daddy had to leave because he had a girlfriend. Married dads aren’t supposed to have girlfriends”

  • As CL says, divorce and no contact. Its so hard to put the AP out of your mind, but focus on your own life. They will get what’s coming to them soon enough. He cheated on you with multiple OWs over the years, he will absolutely cheat on her too. Right now she’s pick me dancing hard because she knows if she’s not on her best behavior, he has his Plan B, you. Remove yourself from that equation. See what happens when he’s spending his weekends in an apartment with 6 kids, a non-dancing mistress he can’t trust, and half his money. He’ll start repeating his same pattern of cheating and lying and then she’ll finally get it. That’ll knock the sneer off her face.

  • When they say they need space, they mean the space between her legs, so technically they’re not lying. 🙂

  • Heartbroken,

    My initial thought about how to “handle the OW,” was to claim “heat of passion” and plead your charge down to manslaughter.

    (***zombie TV announcer voice*** “Consult a lawyer before committing murder. Not to be construed as legal advice. Not board certified in Texas.”)

    • Whoa, whoa, whoa.

      Just read all the “killing” posts.

      I recant my un-funny post.

      Some serious pain today.

      Best to all.

      • I think revenge fantasies (against the ex, I mean) are quite common. It doesn’t mean anything. Those thoughts can come from a place of anger, powerlessness and injustice. As Portia says below, it’s the brain’s way of dealing with the betrayal. It’s a fleeting phase on the way to healing.

        I doubt that anyone actually wants to see their ex physically harmed in any way.

        • They must live and pay alimony for the rest of n-teen years, until kids finish University!
          That’s a worse punishment than any angry thoughts we might come up with! Ho Ho Ho!

      • Yep. Me to. I missed most of this yesterday because of a really long day at work and just jump in with a post about kidnapping dog. I didn’t see all the other until just now. Recant and moving back to today’s stuff.

  • One other thing I wanted to add that I noticed. All that time and energy that goes into making. him happy, supporting his life will go into your life. It’s so fulfilling to actually have and enjoy my own life now…. Without feeling guilty. I have to work and manage the kids (which are older) but I dont have to come home and make him dinner or throw his stupid dinner parties or do his laundry or buy his family presents or feel guilty about not being good enough…. The list goes on and on. Most of us throw so much energy into making it work and playing pick me that once we stop we realize what we gave away. You get to take it back. You still have to be a single mom but most of those fuckwits didn’t help much anyway.

    • That’s a great point. And I echo also the poster above that said that HBBB’s cheaterpants is likely to cycle back once the financial consequences become clear. I just wish more chumps would just go ahead with the divorce and get clear of abuse for a year or two before deciding to take a serial cheater back. If he’s worth that risk, he can prove it by being a good father, including keeping the kids clear of APs and paying child support, and by going through the process of demonstrating remorse and making amends as described by Dr. Simon.

  • I think it was Confucius who said “before you depart on a journey of revenge, first dig two graves.” It is sad that there are some really nasty jealous and greedy people who only feel better about themselves when they think they have something you want. I think of revenge fantasies like the cartoons of my youth — Roadrunner and Coyote in particular. Coyote always wanted to catch Roadrunner, but instead his “traps” turned into “booby-traps”, and he fell off cliffs, or exploded, or had anvils fall on him from the sky. It was always funny (I think this where my weird sense of humor started), but the coyote always lived to screw up again, in the next cartoon. So the fantasy of revenge may be the mind’s way of easing the pain of betrayal thru some imaginary action. If the coyote had ever actually been killed, there would have been no more entertaining cartoons.

    It is sad that Others who are willing to embark upon a relationship with a married person can convince themselves to believe all the BS they are told, and pretend that they will have a wonderful life with Mr or Ms. New to Them. People really don’t change much as adults — I believe I’ve read that basic character is already developed and in place by the time children are 6 or 7. If they will cheat with each other, they will cheat on each other. Too bad they don’t believe it will happen to them. Even “twu luv” will not change some things about life that just are not pleasant. There will always be bills to pay, and sickness, and hardships. If a couple is really committed, they can help each other make it through hard times — but if they think a new spouse will deflect all bad things away from them — they are delusional.

    One of the (very few) benefits of being older is that I have lived long enough to see that living a life full of negative energy has a way of coming back around on people. What you send out into the world will come back to you, eventually. It may not happen on the time table you would prefer, but people who are good to other people will eventually receive good things back, and people who abuse other people will eventually receive bad things back. For Chump Nation, I think you could safely say that Cheaters Never Win and Winners Never Cheat. It is the message of hope in CL’s motto — Lose a Cheater, Gain a Life. We learn a lot about what people are capable of, and even if we would have preferred not to know or experience this knowledge, we are wiser people when all the turmoil is over and done. Pain helps you remember not to make that same mistake again, so hopefully we will focus on what we DON’T WANT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES in a mate, even more that the attributes which we think we want in a mate.

    It is hard for someone who has just been devastated by the news that they have married a fuckwit to concentrate on the fact that life will be better without that fuckwit. However, it is the way out of the muddle that has been made of your so called life. Instead of spending all your time wondering “What Happened,” you shift your focus to “What Can I do to Change My Circumstances.” That leads me to another great quote about revenge: “Living well is the best revenge.”

      • Yes. And how grateful all of us are that we didn’t act on those worst revenge impulses. Since my D-Day, the MOW in my situation has gone through a discard courtesy of Jackass, a separation/divorce and the death of a parent. One of her adult kids has a serious illness. Even now, part of me thinks she got what she deserved but I have regret that I wanted her to feel as much pain as I did. The true karma bus is that life is always full of pain because those we love are mortal–parents, siblings, friends, other relatives, kids and pets. We are mortal ourselves. And even the most charmed lives are full of tragedy (e.g., Diana, Princess of Wales and her kids; the Kennedys). In the midst of pain and trauma caused quite deliberately by selfish, selfish people, we want them to hurt as much as we did in our worst moments. But how we get through our own trauma and pain is to go through it, not to pass it on to others, even those who wounded us so deeply. The universe will take care of it–or as CL says, “Trust that they suck.” What matters is what we do next.

    • Great post, Portia! Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes you gotta be patient, but it’s true that being the type of person who cheats and brings pain to others is its own worst thing.

      At least we can walk away from such misery, and go on to a good life. These people live it–it’s in the very fabric of their being.

      • But sometimes i feel life is not that fair as people think, most time there is no karma for people who cheat or bring pain to others. I saw lots of chumps here see their cheating Ex and the ow are having a great life together, those bastards never feel guilty about it. It’s so sad and hopeless

        • In which case Portia’s last words holder even stronger: “The best revenge is living well”. For even if their new lives are wonderful, and even if they don’t care that you are living well, at least you will be living the best life you can – and so it shouldn’t make a difference whether they care or not.

          I often struggle with the injustice of what I’ve been through / am going through. But the idea of keeping my dignity, keeping the long-term forever in my mind, and working (slowly, ever slowly) towards being happy, healthy and having a full life is what keeps me going. By becoming independent, happy and fulfilled, I think to myself that maybe one day he will regret what he’s done, or feel guilty, or even want me back (but hopefully do nothing about that, as I don’t want him). And if he never feels any of these things, who cares? I’ll be in the best place I can possibly be.

        • Sadface–you’re right. The world is not a just place, and that is something I still struggle with. Many cheaters do eventually shoot themselves in the foot, and get their just desserts. Others are high functioning enough that they continue to accrue accolades and wealth, and partners, etc.

          But….they don’t typically have the “wonderful” life they portray because they are incapable of happiness without external trappings and novel, sparkly things/relationships, and those things can’t last forever. They also don’t have the love and respect of other people (even if those people don’t show it externally). My X has a new sparkly house and GF and is jetting all over the world, but both our children think he is a scumbucket who lacks integrity. I’ll take the admiration of my children over his wealth & status ANYday. Thirdly–you need to focus on YOU and YOUR life. Is it better without a blameshifting, gaslighting, cheating, manipulative POS in it? Even if you answer “no” at present because you’re still in the throes of grief, pain, shock, horror, there is a point in the future at which point you’ll be relieved you’re free of the odious cheater. One step at a time, craft a life you love, filled with friends with integrity. Then it won’t matter if karma hits the cheater or not.

        • Sadface, The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly the saying goes, my favorite example was the Brangelina pod couple, for years St Angie the crazy lied about her affair with Brad, they went on to have and adopt kids and seemed to have it all, money, kids, fame, Jennifer was scorned as the poor chump, well look at them now, Brad can’t see the kids without a social worker, loony Angie is holed up in a rented house with a crisis management consultant on speed dial, and it’s all falling to pieces, meanwhile Jennifer has moved on with her life, and judging by the smirk on her face she’s just amused at the wreckage the karma bus has made of their lives, best thing, she didn’t have to raise a finger.

  • I had a similar loser EX husband. Five months after giving birth to our son, he said he was depressed and needed space. Low and behold he was having an affair with a married co-worker. I knew the ow, she attended my baby shower, FB friends, I watched her kids during company functions, and she held my son on occasion.
    The ex moved out claiming he needed space. I danced the hell out of the “pick me” dance”. He claimed he just didn’t believe in divorce crapola. That is until thanks to Chumplady and Divorce Minister I realized I deserved more. I got my ducks in order and divorced him.
    Chumplady speaks the truth. You can not change him or the skanky ow(s), but you can change you. It’s hard. It’s really hard and hurts. But, you deserve better, your children deserve better. I am now two years divorced. The ex and skank OW are finally public with everything. He gets his son every other weekend, with the skank and her kids. It sucks that she plays a part in my child’s life. But it’s under guidelines I allowed in divorce decree. And I finally have accepted they truly suck. I am not at meh yet, but that Tuesday is in my near future.
    Trust that they suck and allow their “stickiness” to self implode.
    Make that appointment with a lawyer to protect and prepare yourself and move on with you and your children’s lives. It’s hard but chump nation has proven it can be done and in long run you will be better off.
    Keep your head up and know there are those of us our here that support ya.

  • It really sucks when the AP is part of the family constellation. The Downgrade in my case was a former SiL. They confessed to six months, then 2 years, now it is 4, and they have known each other for 16. Talk about shitting in your own nest! Talk about mindfuck for the kids.

    Heartbroken, all this advice about lining up ducks and telling the kids the unvarnished but uneditorialized truth is sound. We have lived it.

    Cheaters get off on the Game, triangulating you, gaslighting the kids, and so on. The only way to win to not to play. Truly. Step out of the crazy as fast as you can, but it is a marathon, not a sprint.

    But, because we are human…..

    As regards what I said to Dgrade, it was pretty much, Seeya, wouldn’t wanna be ya. Saw her a few times in the street. I didn’t much feel like it, but I made sure to wear a half smile, like I was in on the best joke ever. The thought I kept in my head at those times was that whenever the side chick becomes the main squeeze, it creates a vacancy….and the main reason this AP is shining you on like that is her fear of exactly that.

    In other words, she is shit, she knows it, and best thing you can do for you and your babies is step around this, and Grey Rock it all the way to Meh.


    • “whenever the side chick becomes the main squeeze, it creates a vacancy….and the main reason this AP is shining you on like that is her fear of exactly that.”


      Oh my gosh, so much this.

  • Great advice here. Yes, CL is on the money that the best way to handle OW is to file for divorce. That lets you tell your story to the kids: I’m divorcing dad because he broke our marriage vows. Right now, your kids are okay with everything because their parents are modeling that it’s okay for dad to move out and sleep around.

    LovedaJackass gives you the gameplan for filing. Once you file, don’t be surprised if your Cheater decides that he has a complete change of heart, that he loves you and the kids, etc. Do not be deceived! These are crocodile tears. All he wants is for you to take him back so he can go on fucking other women without consequences. And the OW will stop smirking, since she’ll be looking at your STBX’s bank account diminishing quite a bit!

    Cheaters are all about cake. Giving them consequences takes all the fun out of cheating, so they’ll try to gaslight and blameshift you into the FOG.(appeals to fear, your sense of obligation, and your guilt). The end result is that they can keep on eating cake with no consequences.

    Knowing affair partners are also about cake. They like to feel special, that they have something you don’t. Sometimes that’s an STD. Serioiusly, get checked out! They like the whole drama of the love triangle, too.

    So the best way to handle the OW is to step away from the crazy. Let OW have your cheating POS husband. What’s she getting? A man who abandons his family for a fuck fest with a married woman. What’s he getting? A married woman who likes to cheat with married men.

    Remember that past is prologue. They deserve each other!

  • I guess that I’m lucky that my ex has a serious stripper habit and is currently living with one although not the one that was the OW on the last DDay. It’s hard to feel bad about being replaced by a professional dick sucker (she lists Fluffer at a strip club as her job on LinkedIn) knowing that she’s got her work cut out for her with his ED. She can post all the “he took me to Jamaica” pictures on Facebook that she likes. I know what she had to do to earn that trip and I wouldn’t do it for a dozen trips. She is welcome to him. She wins! I am happy to concede her “victory”. Divorce him and live your life HBBB. You’re better off without him. The best revenge is being visibly happy and content with your cheaterless life.

    • Oh I do! Whenever I’m feeling down a quick look at her social media cheers me right up. The pic of her sequined pants and tiger stripped halter top for their New Years Eve date is good for that too. ?

  • I’m sorry but, for some reason – in a long time, I haven’t been able to go to sleep…so here I am after midnight.

    Back to dogs – SO SORRY!
    But, the OW that wanted my life was competing with my Champions brother – litter mates. (sorry, Grand Champ by then – ahem, Gold GCH Top #20)
    It was all very cozy for 3 yrs as we traveled together all over the country in our r/v’s…little did I know how cozy.
    So, as any sport, this is very competitive.
    The fact my dog won over her dog for 3 yrs may have made her vindictive – who knows?
    Happens in horse-racing since time began.
    (I’m thinking Tonya Harding who X moved in next to – ironically – lovely town of Battle Ground, WA. Ha!)

    But – it IS an issue if somebody pretends to be your best friend while smiling at you trying to collect info from you to suck his cock.

    This is totally another thread and I’ve hi-jacked it.
    Sorry, would love to hear from the original poster – she’s probably so confused. 🙁

    In the end – I couldn’t trust either of those 2 bastards with my dogs and I’ve been fine ever since.
    Anyway, in the end, he wanted nothing to do with any of the dogs, when the bills started coming in.
    No prob – no visitation if you don’t pay.

    What a complete asshole for leaving all his dogs behind…even his favorite.
    And soo glad I didn’t breed w/him as he would have done the same to children,
    At least I was smart there.

  • “As for what do you tell the children? You tell them you’re divorcing. Because Daddy cheats on you. And you’re all worth too much to tolerate that.” THIS. THIS LAST LINE IS EVERYTHING.

  • Hey HBBB, you are me 8 years ago, OW #2 was a school mom, we were friends because our kids are in the same year. I had all the twu luv played out, hand holding, back rubs and kissing in the school grounds just so it’d get back to me. I noticed yours is No 2, just keeping thinking of her as a No 2, with a wry smile on your face. My sister (and the righteous anger of other mom’s) helped a lot when they sat 3 rows in front of me at the kids play and cuddled thru it – attempted triangulation because it’s not much fun without me in the frame. Ignore them, it kills the spark if you don’t care, fake it and pretty soon you truly will not care for their childish crapola. 1 year separated, hon get that divorce done, parenting agreement in place and then live your life. Chumplisa is right you’ll soon see that you were doing all the heavy lifting anyway and your time will be much more efficient. Those two numnuts bright champagne to the school to celebrate their engagement – who the hell does that? people with no real friends do….ps they’re still not married! CL has it nailed, follow her advice and you will end up in a happier place. Hugs to you XOXO

  • Thank you for all of your advice. We are just starting the divorce process. The OW is still awful!!! She still walks by me and says good morning, smirks, etc. They are still denying their relationship but they took all six kids on a day vacation to a place we always went with our three kids. That was heart wrenching! It’s just so hard to let go when things are thrown in my face everyday! This woman is everywhere!!! School and extra curricular activities. It’s like I can never get away unless I don’t want to be involved in my kids’ lives which that will never happen. Plus to top it off my “husband” is still soooo mean to me! He told me the other day he Fing hates me!!! Why?!?! He has done all the damage!!! The way he treats me is like I’m the one that cheated and left! I’m just having a hard time moving on!!

    • Jennie, you can’t move on until all of this is done. It’s normal and you need to just believe that your not doing anything wrong. He’s being mean to you because he’s a guilty fucker. As far as her? Rise above it – give her the same smirk she gives you and walk right past her. She’s nothing and you can handle this with grace and dignity. Don’t let her get the best of you. Everyone will know the truth eventually – people probably know what’s going on right now. She didn’t win anything except a liar and a cheat.

      You’ve got this girlfriend. You will be fine. Trust in that and find your anger.

      • Thank you Kimberly! That’s what I try to tell myself but it’s just so hard. Deep down I know I don’t want to be with him, it’s just the fact that my “family” is destroyed. I hate it!!! Plus I hate not seeing my kids everyday!! I don’t get it! How can a man just choose to leave his family and get time with his kids…I’m not saying I don’t want them to have a relationship with their father but he’s fighting for 50%!!! It’s like why? Go live your dream life with your whore!!!

        • The why of 50% custody is to avoid child support. And they can usually get you to spend more time with your kids cause you love them without adjusting support. Slimy shit heads.

          • Jennie – ‘The OW is still awful!!! She still walks by me and says good morning, smirks, etc.’

            OK, I take a different slant but I’m probably older than you and meaner.
            You get that way with maturity and experience.
            My best friend is 88 and she’s taught me a lot. We have 30 yrs diff in age but she’s the sharpest tool in the box.

            First, I would have a hot cup of coffee in hand and you’d be sure I’d notice ‘her’ long before she did me.
            (not that she lives around here but it’s a small world)
            I get so absent minded while looking at the bottom shelf, my cart often can run into people. Omg. Clumsy mite.

            Surely, if your’e ‘running’ into her at work….there are much more effective methods.
            omg – Im SO clumsy, didn’t mean to knock your espresso into your lap.

            Just give me ONE chance to run into my X-BFF of 6 yrs and I swear to God, she’s be afraid of me.
            I can wait – it’s not an issue to me anymore – but, I swear, if I see her, it will not be pretty.
            I’m just too mean in a snidely way!!

            I’m really happy she’s afraid of me. 🙂

            • You could always just simply confront her. Most bullies back down PDQ when put on the spot. You could just stop her in the hallway @ work – in front of everyone and loudly ask. Do you have a problem with me? You seem to walk by me all high and mighty every day? Can you explain why? Let her stammer there for a bit. Then put out your hand and simply say. Let’s get past this kindergarten stuff shall we? Oh, and when you see my husband tonight, let him know the STD test hasn’t come back yet.

              I’m sure that would shut her up and she’d avoid you from now on.

              • She’s so aggressive I don’t think anything bothers her! Bottom line is that she knows she has my husband and she is thriving on that! She’s horrible. He doesn’t make it any better. He will walk right over to her in front of me and have a conversation. 17 years with this man, married for 12, and this is the respect I get?! It’s horrible and such a huge slap in the face! They need to burn!!!!

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