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When Your Cheater Is Also a Sicko

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sacredbedSo the other day, we had a discussion going in the comments about cheaters who do it in the marital bed, the family motorhome, the truck, etc. My opinion is these freaks are a certain subset of cheaters — the real sickos. It’s not enough to cheat, they get an extra kick from secretly debasing their chumps.

I Know a Secret You Don’t Know. It makes them feel powerful to see you unknowingly humiliated this way. Sleeping in their cum-covered sheets. Using the same towels as the affair partner. Sitting down to a nice dinner with their fuckbuddy. Accepting the affair partner’s gifts and presence at your significant life events. They get to revel in your chumpdom and feel superior, united in their dirty little secret. Co-conspirators. Partners in crime.

How delicious. How exciting.

I imagine there are the cheaters who keep their lives more nicely compartmentalized. Home life and double life do not intersect. You visit the escort, you rate the escort. You travel for work, you fuck at the conference. They enjoy a safer kind of cake. (Well, safe in terms of exposure. Not safe in terms of risk and STDs.)

So why the sicko cheater? Why the great big FUCK YOU to the chump?

I have some theories.

1) They’re lazy. People who want to fuck around unfortunately often don’t have to look too far to find someone willing. A co-worker, a neighbor, a family friend. All it takes is someone similarly characterless who’s up for no-strings attached sex.

So, this person was in your circle before, and in your circle they remain. How can they look you in the eye? Invite your kid over for a play date? Bring you homemade banana muffins? It’s part of the “fuck you.” They’re doing a little competition with you — the pick me dance that affair partners do. Even when they tell themselves how uninvested they are, they want those constant reminders how much better they are than you, how moister their muffins are, how much more accomplished their children, how deserving. How lacking you are.

Of course, you’re blindfolded, with both hands tied behind your back, but they’re happy to stand in the ring and sucker punch you and declare themselves the “winner.”

Your spouse, on the other hand, is not just a sicko, they’re probably also just lazy. Why pay by the hour for a hotel when your bed is available? Why make special transportation arrangements when they can drive your truck?

You assign meaning and significance to things because you are a chump. You care. You see the connectedness of things. You ascribe meaning.

Cheaters don’t care and they aren’t connected. It’s about kibbles. Will using our marital bed get me kibbles right now? Okay! Nothing is sacred.

Nothing that is except kibbles.

2) They get off on the deceit. Who gets off on duping delight? Sociopaths. Sicko cheaters feel a contemptuousness for the chump and revel in their superiority at games. Uh, isn’t it a game unless we both know we’re playing a game? Nope, not if you’re a sociopath. We can’t have a level playing field here! The game is duping you! Making you pay for all the slights and grudges to their ego.

Or on the other hand, it’s nothing personal. They’re bored. They’ll chump you for shits and giggles.

How else do you explain one of the OW being invited to your wedding? (Raising my hand here.) Yep, I paid the bar tab for one of my cheater’s OW. Isn’t that special?

I’m sure having one of your OW in attendance at your wedding is a keen reminder that you are Not The Boss of Him. See, he’s “agreeing” to rules he’s already broken! Winning!

And it’s high stakes poker. It’s not enough risk-taking to just cheat, you have to amp up the drama — you have to flaunt it right under your chump’s nose. And they deserve it really for being so stupid. For trusting you.

Sex isn’t the high, deceit is the high. Power and humiliating others is the high. Control is the high.

3) They are delusional. Why do they take such risks? Because they’re loons. They never think their affair partner will rat them out. Everyone is just an extension of them, so won’t everyone just do as they wish? Of course they will. It is good to be puppet master.

Like all the Cluster B freaks, they’re special exceptions to the rules and constraints of chump society. In their imaginations, they never draw a deuce in their high stakes poker game. They always win and never get caught. When in truth, they fuck up because… they just don’t think that far ahead.

When I look back at my cheater’s risk taking, I just marvel. It was so stupid, so transparent, so clearly all going to collapse into a pile of ashes. And yet he did it anyway. Not just to me, but to two wives previously as well. He learned nothing from collapses one and two. He just took greater and more outlandish risks. He really couldn’t see past the next kibble quest.

I’ve alluded to this study before, but just found it again online from a New Yorker article on the science of sociopathy — these folks only see “card to card.” They can’t look over the event horizon to see consequences in order to fear them.

Joseph Newman, who chairs the psychology department at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, is the leading advocate of this theory. His model is based on traditional research methods, such as lab work using rats with brain lesions, and studies of humans using a well-known card-playing task, in which players gradually start to lose money; the players in the control group stopped as their earnings diminished, but the psychopaths could focus only on the outcome of the next card choice. Another hypothesis is that psychopaths lack fear of personal injury and, more important, moral fear—fear of punishment.

I’m not saying all cheaters are sociopaths — but the sadistic fucks who take delight in the double life, enjoy flagrantly humiliating you, and never think the day will come when they’re found out? Yeah, I think they’re sickos.

Whatever it is, it’s some kind of super fucked up. The kind of fucked up you need to get the hell away from.

This column ran previously.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I have learned to accept that he was, and still is, a sociopath. No interest in untangling the why.

    The ONLY sign I missed before I discovered the years of lies happened in the ex’s office.

    I was there to sign papers for an apartment we were helping our son buy. When his law partner (and our good “friend”) came in, we hugged and kissed hello. I remember looking over at the ex. He was leaning back in his desk chair with his hand locked over his large stomach. I remember his grin and thinking it was somehow strange and chilling.

    The moment passed because I chalked it up to his just being in a good mood.

    That was my only clue – sicko category for sure.

    Good riddance. She has him and his even larger stomach now!

  • Yep i was married to a sicko. Heavy into bondage sex i wasnt aware of the extent of depravity. Only way to get off accordinging to him. Fucked ow in my bed, my house, my kitchen, car, truck, his shop. Only found this out recently. Wish i knew before the divorce i would have made it a blood bath. Never did i think he would be that distespectful. I was wrong. Being nice til closing hes buying the house and then i go far away and no contact. He doesnt know that i know about the sex slaves in my bed or that moving day im cutting him off cold. He thinks we will still be friends and date and fuck let him think what he wants cause it aint gonna happen. Fucking sick bastard asshole. I never did a damn thing to be treated in this manner. May the sickos dick fall off and the body pain he feels intentsifies so much only death will relieve it. Fuck him and his slaves.

    • Kar Marie-I always say don’t put ANYTHING past them. I, too, found this out the hard way. You are handling this exactly how I would. I’m anxiously awaiting your closing so you can get away from the hell of being in his vicinity.

      • Thanks ex orcist im waiting patiently too. Soon as closing happens im gone, ive a place to store my stuff temporary til i can buy a little house for me and my dog babies and a place me and the dogs can stay. Blocking him on email and leaving the cell he pays for on the kitchen counter i will get a new phone and my kids know and agree to tell me nothing about him and him nothing about me. I leave all the bad stuff with him. Let the sex slaves deal with it. Asswipe can kiss my ass!!

        • How about you smash the phone with a hammer first, just for fun?
          God speed KM, your new life will be glorious!

          • My son could use it i figure hes gonna live with dad after i move. Leastways i can stay in touch with the boy. Asswipe has to pay for the phone for more than another year. My present to the kid. Too bad his sperm donor cant teach him how to be a real man instead of a fucking pod.

          • Yes. My serial cheating wife is so hung up on possessions. (What’s hers is hers, and what’s mine is ours…). Couple that with the fact that she has ignored our kids and me in favor of her phone and a bottle of wine almost every night for going on five years, and i’m giddy just thinking about smashing her phone.

            Please smash it before you leave it!

  • I’ve posted these two anecdotes before, but they fit with this column so I will share them again. Of all the many, horrible realizations and tainted memories, these are the two that still make my stomach physically ill and keep me up at night. First, he had his good “friend” over for dinner at our house several times and I cannot wipe away the memory of the two of them smugly sitting at my small, cozy dinette table eating the food I worked all day to prepare while I cheerfully bustled about serving them and chatting and being the hostess. It was a truly sick joke on me and the realization that my husband allowed this to occur in the sanctity of my home is what propelled me to walk into the kitchen the next morning and tell him to get the fuck out of our house immediately … within 2 hours rather than 2 days later as we had agreed. Just typing it makes me livid even though I know I will be reading even sicker stories from my fellow chumps today.

    The second story shows the depth of his empty soul. My mother had an aneurysm while on vacation in Europe and she barely lived. I flew to be by her bedside and was gone for 5 weeks, not knowing from one day to the next that entire time whether she would survive. It was terribly traumatic. My mother did live and fully recovered with time. When I came home from the airport, my husband and his boyfriend were lounging around in our family room and the house smelled of the boyfriend’s smoking habit. Yes, for 5 weeks, they were living together in our house while my mother is fighting for her life. Many a man could care less about his MIL … I get that. But to take advantage of my absence as an opportunity to fuck around in my bed and my house again makes me sick to my stomach.

    My lawyer finally has the settlement papers ready for me to sign today. Thanks to this choice of column to help me remain focused on the many reasons I am glad it is over rather than feel nostalgic and sad. Fuckers all of them.

    • Congrats on getting to sign your papers!!! It is like torture waiting for my lawyer to say when I can sign them. Every day, all day just hoping my phone dings with an email from the lawyer. I feel like ever since both sides have been in agreement in the doc, our case has become low priority. Anyone else experience this? Anyway, happy for you Dixie and wishing you the best.

    • He is evil, and I’m so sorry this happened to you. Your compassion for others comes through in your encouraging words on this site. You are amazing and a special combination of sweet and smart (and soon to be single!). Stay mighty. You’re almost there.

    • Dixie Chump – I can so relate. We lived on a military base and were close to the family who lived next door to us. They were being transferred across seas, and the husband already left. I let the wife and two girls live with us for two weeks until they were transferred over. I found out after they left that the wife and my ex had carried on an affair pretty much from the time we moved next to them until she moved overseas. Yes, this included while being pregnant with my son and continuing being friends.

      I found out about the third D-Day of him having an affair with another good friend of mine whose family we frequently vacationed with. They all must have been giddy when they were alone knowing how much they were pulling over on me and the nice hubby chumps. Makes me sick. Absolutely sick.

  • My XH had the OW in our home while I was working nights (and I was pregnant). She met me a few times and once he invited me to watch them play squash together! Yep, absolute sicko!

    • I’m so sorry, MsMeh. I came home sick (and early) from work about 7 months ago to find my X entering our bedroom with a very much younger woman. I had absolutely no idea that he had been carrying on with her *in our home* for 4 months, while I was at work. I later learned that he was a serial cheater and had been cheating on me for 8 years, starting the week we had moved in together. As CL tells us: TRUST THAT THEY SUCK!

    • aww MsMeh, I am so sorry.

      These stories today still leave me baffled that people can be so cruel. Sicko is too kind of a word. Without a doubt, I say exemplary riddance on your part!!!

      • 3 reasons they do this: 1/ They are lazy 2/ They are cheap 3/ They are sadistic perverts who get off on hurting and humiliating they spouses.
        My traitor was less lazy, but a double doze of perversion with him and his 2nd wife concocting a plan and leaving me on the farm looking after their son while they fucked in her house and her grandma’s house. He had made up this whole story about going away to visit his 3rd son from his first wife, wanting me to have some time alone on the farm with the 2nd wife’s son because it would be good for us. SICK. And the second wife/pervert whore knew I’d had 9 miscarriages and been unable to have a child. What kind of woman does what she does?
        Then they carried on while we were in wreckonciliation, while I was still looking after her son 3 days a week. With a VAR I found out that they suspected me of trying to poison my traitor. But I was still good enough to look after their son while they were fucking.
        Perverts.

  • Sorry to say I was duped as well. Gift from work hoes, dinner with work hoes, brought work hoes’ things into my home. He was a lazy cheat in the bedroom and in choosing his hoes with convenience being number 1. Wow!

    On a brighter note, divorce was finalized early this summer. I don’t know how to explain it but after handling a bit of personal business, I felt “single” not divorced. Hmmm not some divorced person with a history of being connected to a fool, but single and free! Wow!

    • Yeah, that’s how I define myself now. I’m not “divorced.” I’m single. And sooooo much better off!

      • You know I feel the same way. I don’t want to say I’m divorced. I’m single. I have no ties to him. We have no children, we will never speak again. Our marriage was such a dumpster fire that I kind of want to pretend it never happened. I have taken to referring to him as “I had this husband once”… even though I’m still legally, technically married to him (just in the wait period).

  • My STBX took his profile photos and his dick pic photos in the spare bedroom. I had no idea. He tried to hook up with people physically, but no-one took him up on the offer (I still got STD tested, all clear thank goodness).
    He was also lazy. He wanted me to break up with him, so devalued me and treated me like shit for three years instead of leaving. He spent thousands of dollars on credits for the dating sites and sending money to overseas scam artists (I knew money was going but thought it was the ubiquitous mid-life crisis and was giving him ‘time’ before I fronted him). I found his poorly written letter to a Ukrainian scam artist on the spare bed. When I fronted him he moved into the spare bedroom, lied about sending money, never admitted to the dating and sex sites and took 9 weeks to move out – I had to tell him he needed to go. The entitlement is mind blowing.
    I still have access to one of his email accounts, he went to lawyers on April 22nd but instructed them to hold off on sending me an email with the letter of demand until the day I was flying out of the country on holiday, the day before my birthday in July. A last ‘you’re not the boss of me’. My response is to now go for my share of his superannuation (I was willing to just walk, now I will ask for something every time he hassles me).
    For any new chumps, do what Chumplady says, document, lawyer up and realise they DON’T care about you.

      • Oh my gosh – my ex did the same to me. Had me served with divorce papers as I was heading out of the country on holiday – the day before my birthday. These people are so sick.

          • My ex-husband always bought me a particular bouquet of flowers on special occasions with lilies in them, my favorites. He always wanted ‘credit’ for remembering and getting me the kind I liked. When I learned he’d had an affair and looked at his AP’s FaceBook page, she put a picture of this exact bouquet of flowers and referenced that they’d come from him.

            The audacity! The unmitigated gall! But the more I thought about his malaise and laziness in virtually every area of life, I wondered ‘Wait…sick bastard or lazy fuck?’ I’m now leaning towards the latter.

      • Dear Lost,
        I am so sorry that happened to you. I am an Australian chump, so I posted then went to bed, that is why the reply is so late. I read these stories and I can’t wrap my head around how so many magnificent people were treated so appallingly. My heart goes out to you, big internet hug from down under.

  • My ex had a good fuck in the back of the truck. Like seriously, the bed of the truck. We purchased that as a married couple. It was his first new car. I was so happy for him. Have you all ever heard the Beyoncé song “irreplaceable”. There’s a line in it that says “because you were untrue, rolling her around in the car that I bought you. Baby, drop them keys. Hurry up before your taxi leaves”. Love it. Perfect description of how I felt. And “don’t you ever get to thinkin, you’re irreplaceable”. Love. ❤️

    • My STBX had a truck for our family camping and off-road adventures and a Mercedes Benz for the image at work. Both were used with one particular whore to impress and then transport to their fuck locations. The bush in this instance where they played naked survivors. Seriously I have the picks her X shared them with me. She hated camping but was desperate enough to do anything to be with him and here in Australia the bush is not for the faint hearted. She ended up with a rash all over her. Karma!!!
      The Mercedes was used to reinforce the image he had lots of money even told her if we divorced he’d generously give me 3 million dollars. From what I don’t know because the only amount connected to him in that sum is his life insurance. And he transported her or she met him at our business office where we both worked. He even went about ordering and asking me to help set up a surveillance camera so he could document their trysts without her knowledge (that’s right true sicko). Telling me it was to keep an eye staff in office I said no I don’t know why you ordered it. It’s still in its box in the store room because now he knows I’m onto him and he has to watch himself.
      Both cars are in my name, actually everything of value is in my name. He just owns the debt. We set it up that way so that if he ever got sued, (he is a financial planner) the family assets would be safe. All he owns is his motorbike. Anyhoo I sold both his cars, traded the truck in for a nice small Hyundai Accent to get me around town while I privately sold my Tarago as I didn’t need a huge people mover anymore and then sold his Merc for cash. He had to go out and buy another truck for himself but it’s in my name to BAHAHA. He actually said to me the other day “If you really wanted to punish me you could report the car stolen, then I’d get arrested”. I’m highly tempted but being that its leverage I’ll play my cards a little more savy. We have a long way to go being entangled business wise. Sometimes there is a small amount of justice.

  • Yes, Durtbag was a sicko and his slut puppet is too. He asked me if she could stay over some nights at our house because she had a long drive home after their gigs. I said yes. Turns it they were screwing in our bed after I went to work. He also screwed his other women in the attic of my home, which was his studio, and probably screwed slut puppet in the attic while I was home. He even had me help him move a bigger couch up there. Now I know why.
    The depravity list goes on and on. They are truly cruel and evil. I learned yesterday, for the third time in as many months, about a woman he is sexting. He now lives with slut puppet music “partner”, but still can’t keep his dick zipped up. I can’t wait for her to realize the prize she won.

    • Sorry, “learned about yet another woman he is sexting” that is three different women in three months. Why do I care? Because I know he is doing to her what he did to me, and she deserves it. What still boggles my mind is that this whore, who was living in her moms basement, willingly participated in these horrible activities. Who does that? I am sure she saw a meal ticket, not knowing that the loser has NOTHING other than his manipulation and lying skills.

  • Realizing X is as cold hearted as he is turns my stomach, I’ll list just a few of the wicked things he’s done, and these are the minor ones, X left me unannounced on Mother’s Day, X bought me a BMW for my 50th birthday, I loved my mini van and told him I appreciated the thought but not right now, I didn’t want a car payment and I could wait a few years. X insisted, and told me he’d be insulted if I didn’t accept his gift.
    I reluctantly accepted the car as my birthday gift. Not long after he bought the car, he left. He denied he bought the car for me, the judge made me pay for the car. X was the wage earner and has a well paying job, I gave up my career at his insistence to help him with his and be a stay at home mom for 20 years.
    X alienated our son from me. X not only told people I wasn’t mentally stable but also an alcoholic. I had a minor fender bender in the school parking lot while picking up my son. X told everyone I was driving drunk in the middle of the day in a school parking lot.
    My Mom was diagnosed with cancer and eventually passed away. She loved him like her own. He not only didn’t show empathy he would call her and send her e mails telling her his version of events, that I was an alcoholic and leaving me was the best thing he’s ever done. X did this even after she asked him not to because she was so sick with cancer. My list is endless. These are only a few of small things he’s done to humiliate and hurt me.
    Yes, he’s a sociopath, he’s can come across to outsiders as Mr. Nice guy. In my opinion X has many similarities to Ted Bundy. Sick individual.

    • What is it with the gift of cars? My ex gave me a brand new car last year as my anniversary gift, I was overwhelmed and didn’t feel like I needed it (I loved the little car I had). When Dday happened, the first thing I had drawn up in our agreement was that all car expenses (and I mean all) were to be covered by him, and so far he has complied.

      My ex is also delusional, sick in his justification of sleeping with his best friends (of 30+ years) longtime gf. I become nauseous everytime I remember hugging this woman, having a cookout, bonding with her, all the while my husband thinking “yay! They get along!”

      When those memories pop up, I just remind myself of my freedom, and that the idiot provided a very nice getaway car to pursue it in!!!

      • Oh yes, all the bonding I had with her and I considered her to be my best friend. Really is nauseating when I think about it. They’re both sickos!

  • God yup…I’ve wrote this before but the memory of it was so damaging…2 1/2 years out I’m definitely healing…she had her AP over (our daughters boyfriends dad) for a weekend dinner and I happily grilled assorted meats while he drank the beer I provided and she walked around with that stupid fucking grin on her face…still remember that like it was yesterday.

    • Kb, Her moral compass points to “F” for Fuck.

      So sorry for your ongoing pain.

      I just wanted to remind you that trust that she sucks!!

      • Haha! Thanks and yes its ongoing but nothing like the early days, only if I allow myself to dwell on it and I can usually change my thoughts pretty quickly. But I remember her cheerfully slicing his stupid limes for his Corona beer I PAID FOR and ugh!! God how blind I was ..! Oh well he can have her.

  • Like Dixie Chump, most of you know my story but since it fits so nicely into today’s post (and because I perversely enjoy being reminded of just what type of sick person I’m dealing with) I’ll reprint here —

    – According to the intelligence I was able to gather, the Kunty Kibbler met the Carrot Singer in person for the first time in a downtown location, then went on impulse to a hotel lobby bathroom and had unprotected sex. They did it again in our minivan in a downtown garage a few days later.

    – The evening of our 15-year anniversary celebration, while I was waiting for food to be delivered in the lobby of the condo I’d rented, she was texting him and arranging for sex the next morning in our home, after our then 13 and 11-year old daughters got on the bus for school. (Her instructions to him were: “Wait until you see the bus pull away at the end of the street, then come on in.” She texted me later that day: “Such a great day off! I haven’t done a thing all morning!”)

    – She had him over in our home again a few weeks later while I was in Belgium for work — again, having taken the day off of work and after the girls left for school.

    – She apparently returned the favor to the Carrot Singer’s wife 2 days after Christmas, as she begged out of attending a family gathering (my family, of course) to fuck in his house while his wife was out with their infant daughter.

    – I was able to intercept their next attempt. Seeing their text exchange on her tablet, I waited in a nearby parking lot for her to come home, confronted her, grabbed her phone and tablet, then ordered her outside so we could wait for him to show up. When I asked her why she was home, she gave a bullshit excuse about not feeling well. When I pressed, she admitted, “I’m meeting [Carrot Singer] here.” When I asked why, she said, “Because we have no place else to go.” I got such immense satisfaction watching their stupid fucking faces as they came face to face with me and the reality of what complete and total fuckups they are. The Carrot Singer even got all sad sausage on her when he found out several big lies he’d told her — not least of which that I gave her a black eye.

    – These are of course only the instance I know about and have proof of.

    So . . . Lazy? Check.
    Getting off on the deceit? Check.
    Delusional? Check.

    Thanks Chump Lady for validating the term that fits, but that I can’t use as much overtly as I’d like because of our girls — SICKO.

    • Correction: “The Carrot Singer even got all sad sausage on her when he found out several big lies SHE’D told HIM — not least of which was that I gave her a black eye.”

      • Whew, UxWorld, glad there’s a quick “reply” [to our own posts option], ’cause for a second I thought, he cannot be saying this! You weren’t. What AN ASSWIPE to accuse you of beating her!

        And Eeew – sex in a public bathroom? That’s just gross. What, their first sexual betrayal of spouses needed MORE pathogens? Glad you have her number, sorry you ever had to figure it out.

        • I am a day late on all these posts, and I haven’t even gotten a chance to read the new post, but you guy chumps are everything to me this week. Match Girl was such a sleeze and although I found out hours after she fucked Match Stick, I relate to the devalue so much. It was a whirlwind month-long devalue, and it was brutal. Thanks for strong y’all’s pain. It’s helping me.

        • I am a day late on all these posts, and I haven’t even gotten a chance to read the new post, but you guy chumps are everything to me this week. Match Girl was such a sleeze and although I found out hours after she fucked Match Stick, I relate to the devalue so much. It was a whirlwind month-long devalue, and it was brutal. Thanks for sharing y’all’s pain. It’s helping me.

          Can’t remember which guy, but she was gonna let you take a bat to a gun-fight. That’s them in a nutshell.

    • my cheater managed a long distance deal with business trip meetups and quickies whereever. Running an errand from family trip to meetup in nasty hotels. Pretend business trip using frequent flier miles. take a day off here and there. 2 years.

      The last meetup was when I was out of town and he told such a dumb story about a trip he took that just didn’t make sense. So I checked his debit transactions (he never paid bills so I do all that stuff anyway) and saw an out of state charge.

      The sick part is that her divorce just finalized and he helped her find apartment within a mile of our house and she took a job in the same office as my doctor. He didn’t think that would be a big deal. I think her kid may end up going to school with my friends kids. Maybe he wanted to be caught? Maybe. He thinks we should stay married or become FB’s. Oh, and he co-signed apartment because her credit is bad. But you know, she is a good person and it was one of her ex-husbands who ruined her credit. He is really lost why I would end our marriage over this. This stuff was already happening and in place when I found the debit charge.

      • Yes! My husband did similar things and actually said at the divorce lawyer’s meeting, “I never thought it would come to this.” Really? Well, what were you thinking? That we’d all happily share you and be grateful to partake in our portion of your awesomeness? Idiots.

  • Nowdeadhusband compartmentalized really well with his work Hoes until Susan of Seattle and he lost his mind and his bearings. He received gifts from her that he brought into our house…all right under my nose.

    The kicker was when she was an invited guest to his military retirement and sat in the second row as they were giving me the “we appreciate you, you dutiful military spouse” stuff during the ceremony. She brought a fake date to throw people off but came up to me, shook my hand and said how lovely it was to meet me. At the reception, I saw OW with my (then) 2nd grader daughter giving D a huge lollipop. Future step mother and all.

    18 yrs as a longsuffering military spouse and they shit on me like that, it was beneath contempt. Dont know when or where they hooked up on that trip but Im sure they did.

    Once I found the smoking gun and learned of the affair, I went to my kitchen and found the expensive Chinese tea that OW had given him as a gift, put it in my toilet and pooped on it.

    • I love you unicornomore!

      Narkles the Clown is number 2 on this list and in my heart. (Using the poop segue) There is no better reason than this column to embrace No Contact, the path to the truth and the light.

    • My blood is just boiling after reading Unicornomore’s story! What a couple of disordered FUCKWADS!!
      On a side note, it may be a long time before I drink Chinese Tea again. Unicorn, I have to ask, Susan know you found out about her?

      • Yes… But first I did the clumpy thing of calling her and asking her to leave my husbands life. Then I believed the crazy story he concocted to convince me they were over while they worked in the same city. Chump-eeee!!!!

        When he died, I sent her an inappropriately casual text mentioning his death as if I was sure she already knew but maybe she didn’t.

        I hope that she thinks of him as her great lost love. I have fantasies of seeing her in an airport and saying “Oh, you fucked my dead husband!!”

      • Yup, fucked her in my bed, watched my lay my head on my pillow knowing her head had layed on it (there is no one more obsessive with the forensic sellotape than a distraught spouse. I found her long black hair EVERYWHERE he said he had f* her in my house, including my kids beds),

        and wore golf shirts/ties she had given him in front of me.

        When he came back from a business trip, he had 3 pearl necklaces. One for me, one for DD, and one for [his sister, the explanation I innocently gave him]

        Its the depth of the disrespect. What was I to him? A despised but still-rather-useful domestic appliance and childminder.

        • Hard to be lower than having sex with the AP in the marital bed but using the kids’ beds is despicable. And creepy.

            • ‘Mine’ (cos I still don’t have a better description) thinks he was so kind because “we NEVER did it in OUR bed.” And that I was crazy because he funked her every-bloody-where-else. Kids’ beds. Holiday home bed – cos apparently that is not the same as “our” bed – couches, vehicles, all over my farm, etc, etc, etc. Worst memories for me are those when I spent time at our holiday home and invited her. Just two great mates having some girl time with our kids. Hoorah! Lashings of bacon for Timmy. When we all hung out together regularly, and I thought I was still so in love with my 25 year soulmate. All the while I was the free maid and chef for her. And no doubt as I slaved away they were touching each other on my deck. Behind kitchen benches. The only time he EVER refused sex with me was when she was sleeping in the next room. He ‘promised’ her he wouldn’t have sex with his partner, the mother of his children, the person who sacrificed her whole future for him. He was such a good boy. Did exactly what he was told. I still didn’t fucking get it! Just babysat her son while she swam and fished. Face palm.

  • My STBX said he wanted to take our daughter camping so he was coming to get the toy hauler. This was about a month after he moved in with coworker 25 years younger than him. So obviously he took her, too. This is the toy hauler he walked out and left me with. Left me with the payment, too. And then I had to face the fact that the big long black hair I found in the shower over a year ago – may have been hers. Could have been someone else’s. Who knows. Who cares. Just looking forward to court date this month. I’m thankful she took this ‘prize’ off my hands. Looking back, he was probably cheating during most of our marriage. They do not care about you, or anyone else, for that matter.

  • Regarding number one, they are lazy. I think they do this because they are also CHEAP. They are getting sex for free , ie, no commitment or obligations they would have with s real relationship. So it stands to reason that they would want the site of the fucking to be free.

    I remember sneaking around with my high school boyfriend and going to his brother and his wife’s house while they were gone to have sex. Ughhhh. He said that the brother knew and was OK with it but looking back I bet he didn’t. At the very least I bet the wife didn’t know. I’m disgusted by this looking back but I can see how a sick person could get off on it.

  • My cheater fits this. He took her to our marital home, lied to everyone, blamed me in therapy and then when caught turned malicious and cold – not one ounce of regret. Frankly it scares me. He scares me. I’ve gotten away from him but the damage he did to my sense of well-being was huge. If you have one of these cheaters, be very careful because you do not know what they are capable of doing. Be safe and get a good lawyer.

    • Asswipe choked whore juice out cold and then beat her for something she did to hurt me. They knew each other for six weeks. When she came to she begged his forgiveness for making him hit her! Sickos, sickos, sickos. Hes never laid a hand on me i told him he would go to jail if he ever did. Yet this sick bitch is who hes wants to be with she was marking her territory hurting me enraged him and he knocked her out. He said she did it because she loves him and thought it would be funny. Sickos both of them.

  • Wow this one hits home…the first affair (that I found out about) was a friend and I caught him after their party in our home,hot tub, my bed. Not only didn’t he stop he also took her to our cottage. 4 years of pick me dancing later and his “new girlfriend” after the separation (not new). Was brought to our cottage our home in Florida and, once again to our bed. ..making me a super chump…oh and a friend of ours (who knew about his previous cheating) introduced them! The one good thing is that it helped me get un-trauma bonded and out of love right quick!!! SICKO!!

  • Lazy is an accurate word for my STBX. His APs have been co-workers, classmates and a high school friend. I guess it’s true, you don’t have to throw a rock very far to hit some low-class turd willing to fuck someone else’s spouse. There were no in-home invasions of the fuckery sort, but his entitled, fucked up mind caused him to do something that also launched me into one of my most un-MEH moments.

    After one of my marriage policing bouts I discovered a long chat log with one of the above AP turds and what I found was more disturbing than just the intimate sharing of details of his marital woes but the pictures he had sent this low life of our daughter. Up till this point, I had experienced being replaced over and over by OW as his wife, his lover and his best friend which had devalued me to the point of near immobilization. But this….whatever his intentions were with sharing these pictures with this POS and her sharing pictures of her and her son, what I saw was that this bastard had moved from replacing me as his partner to replacing me as the mother figure in my child’s life. I later thought, this must be what temporary insanity feels like because I completely lost my shit! Of course, he minimized the whole thing and tried to make me feel like I was overreacting but I can say that I have never felt so much anger and rage toward anyone as I felt toward him and the woman who obviously took some sick thrill out of seeing herself in my place. If this had been the wild kingdom, I would have probably eaten him alive and spit out his bones.

    • I agree … sharing pictures of your kid is truly sick. Mine shares pictures of his kid with his boyfriend after each visitation and it makes me sick. When he introduced the guy to my child the first time (many years ago) in our home, he told my child the guy was “Uncle x” which I corrected immediately. It made my skin crawl at the time and why I didn’t understand the significance of why he was introducing a “friend” that way still bothers me. I missed so many obvious things …

      • I’ve probably posted this story here before, but it was the same for me–at least two of X’s boyfriends became “family friends” who became a part of our children’s lives and stayed at our house when I wasn’t there, while I remained utterly clueless (though always with suspicions that seemed ridiculous because of course I believed that X was straight).

        One of them remains X’s supposed BFF to this day, but neither of them is out and the BFF is still married (the other boyfriend was much older and passed away a number of years ago, after much family drama involving last-minute changes to include X in his will along with his nieces and nephews–seriously, how clueless could I have been?). But here’s the funny part, when X introduced the BFF to our children years ago, my son excitedly reported it to me. “Mom! Guess who I met today? The Lord of the Dance!”

    • Children are possessions (to be bragged about) to these creeps. My ex used to bring our kids with him on dates with his OWs while we were married and before I caught him. He wanted to show off his kids, plain and simple. Never mind that the kids are human beings and not things.

      Now he is with final OW, and has been for almost 4 years. She is so not as impressed now with the kids as she pretended to be when they were dating, which is hilarious to me. When they first moved in together he tried a month-long campaign of trying to get the kids to call her “Mommy #2”. It didn’t take. When they told me about it I said, “Well, the #2 part is right”, and we all laughed.

  • My ex ingratiated himself with his coworker’s family. He would come home with clothes from the OW’s husband, she had passed them along to him because her husband had lost a lot of weight and couldn’t wear them any more.

    During our marriage I felt very uncomfortable about his relationship with this coworker and told him I no longer wanted to have her and her husband over to our house. I didn’t feel like being friends with this woman who seemed so possessive of my husband. I found out that when I was out of town one weekend my husband invited her family over to a cookout with my children. My husband never mentioned this to me, but one of my kids did. Nothing I asked him to do in regards to placing boundaries with this woman seemed to work. She often showed up on our doorstep to deliver my husband’s dry cleaning that she’d just happened to pick up on her way home.

    My husband invited this coworker and her family to our son’s wedding. He got disgusted while dancing with me because I made a wrong turn on a new dance move he was trying to do, and spent the rest of the night dancing with his coworker while her husband and kids looked on. Some of the time he danced with the coworker and her little girl (he always wanted a girl). This was devastating to me, but I refused to get upset at my son’s wedding. I saved my tears until I was in bed that night.

    My DIL told me that she one had a conversation with my husband’s coworker while we were still married. She said the woman gave her the creeps and acted like she was an integral part of our family. She was surprised when my son told her no, the coworker was barely around when they were growing up. Other women have mentioned that when they saw my ex with this coworker at the office they got a creepy feeling about her possessiveness of my ex. Everyone in their office also suspected they were having an affair.

    Within a week of our separation this coworker was posting redecorating ideas for our house on my husband’s Facebook page. I was still living in the house at the time. My father saw the post and made a comment, then it disappeared.

    My ex moved in with her parent’s after our separation, and started coaching her child’s soccer team.

    About a year later I found a letter my ex had written on an old computer. It spelled out that he was indeed in love with this woman and “planting seeds” to break up her marriage and have her to himself. He wrote of how much he adored her, and of his plans that she and her children would live with him on a big farm and live happily ever after. He did buy a large home on on about 20 acres not far from where she lived.

    This situation was literally killing me. I wash my hands of their whole sick, sordid affair. After we separated I went NC. If friends tried to tell me something they heard about my ex I stopped them. I have no idea what he’s doing or who he’s doing it with. Even my kids barely mention him, although I know they spend time at his “resort.” It all seems so strange, to spend 36 years with someone and have it end like this.

    • But, but don’t you see why he HAD to cheat? You messed up his DANCE MOVE. That was his BIG MOMENT. He tolerated his son having the spotlight for a couple of minutes, since it was his wedding day and all, but that dance was supposed to bring the attention back to HIM, back where it belonged! And you didn’t see inside his head and know the choreography! You ruined his special performance! How do you sleep at night?

      Oh, wait, you sleep without that fuckwit, so probably pretty well, I would imagine. It’s amazing how the little things most people will laugh off – a misstep during a dance, a spilled drink, a dropped piece of paper, because the biggest tragedy of all time and worse because that horrible slight was done ON PURPOSE just to hurt the poor narc’s feelings.

      • Thats how i take it. Everything i ever did was to fuck up asswipe the things i didnt know i was supposed to know, the things he lied about, all the expensive gifts to cover up what i didnt know to deal with his guilt. The gifts to make up for what he couldnt give…himself. yet he appears as and call himself a nice good guy. Nice guys dont

        Lie
        Steal
        Cheat
        Fuck sex slaves in my bed
        The list goes on.

        Hes a real nice guy til you really get to know him. Didnt used to be like this or maybe he always was and couldnt hide it anymore. The real low life scum is what he sees when he looks at me. Why the fuck he wants to be friends, date and fuck me is beyond me. I just dont get it. But its not gonna happen. He can die for all i care but after he buys the house! Come on closing!!!!!!!!

    • Lyn-
      Good for you on staying strong with NC. You are beyond mighty. I feel for you and for that CREEPY AP’s ex-husband. The two shitbags DEFINITELY deserve each other. May they live crappily ever after with all the lying, cheating karma they have coming.

    • Hi Lyn,

      I always stop to read your posts. You are such a gracious person on how you express your thoughts. You had me feeling your pain at the moments (plural) at your son’s wedding. For that, I can truly empathize with your hurt.

      You mention, “It all seems so strange, to spend 36 years with someone and have it end like this” – I have been happily divorced now for almost 4 years. I am mostly no contact with ex-wife except email/text only in regards to my 3 kids (15,14,12). The narc abuse is still in full swing and is still all done covertly. Some of the abuse towards me are directed to my kids by this cruel-being. For me nothing has ended it’s just merely the interlude.

      I feel if your marriage didn’t end like it did for you, then you wouldn’t be able to experience all the wonderful things that you are destined to experience.

      • Thanks, SureChumpedAlot. I am grateful that my children were grown when he decided to fly the coop, it must be hard for you to still be trying to parent with your ex. I’ve definitely experienced a lot of things I wouldn’t have if I was still sitting alone with my husband away on “business trips” all the time. Although I live alone, I’m less lonely than I was in our marriage the last 10 years.

    • So sorry Lyn, your story just gives me the creeps. I hate people with no boundaries and that creature was pissing all over your territory for years. How awful you had to go through this. I’m glad you’re out of it and completely NC. Good on you!

  • I’m embarrassed to admit this, showing how clueless I was. My cheater and I were excitedly looking forward to our first sonogram of our first baby. On the scheduled day, I walk into the waiting room to find my wife conversing with a gentleman. I walk up to them and my wife introduces me to the man, saying, “I’d you to meet Dr. —, my therapist. I’ve been sharing with him our good news about the baby and invited him to come witness our sonogram. He wants to show support.” He extends his hand with a warm smile and says he is so pleased to meet me and is delighted to support us during this wonderful time. I’m blindsided and confused (does he really have to be here??) but how do you handle this in a polite way in a public place? So I let it happen. Later, after D-day, you can imagine my anger, shame and horror at this in-your-face display of disrespect, plus the mind-fuck for years: is our child really mine? For this I finally had to DNA our daughter to put the matter to rest. Thank God she is mine. Can you imagine the nightmare of telling your grown daughter that her biological father isn’t me? This is still a bitter pill to stomach. I learned several things the hard way: never blindly trust anyone, including your spouse; you never really know another person; if anything seems truly off, trust your gut feeling!

    • Thomas, the book The Gift Of Fear is mostly about physical danger but he is very good at explaining what we do to overdid out gut feelings.

        • I can’t recommend all of Gavin de Becker’s books highly enough. There is The Gift of Fear and also Protecting The Gift. Read them & memorize them! Those books saved my life. Literally. I used to manage commercial properties, and they were unendingly useful when dealing with disordered clients.

    • Gah Thomas! I’m so sorry. That’s awful. It’s just insane how blatant (& lazy) cheaters are. I’m so glad your daughter is indeed yours and I really feel for male chumps who have to have paternity tests. I hope you you have moved on and are creating a wonderful new life. Hugs!!

    • My fucktard exhole brought his AP (“family friend”) to the hospital the day after I delivered our first child and SHE HELD MY NEWBORN BABY. I didn’t find out about their affair until years later, but when I finally put pieces together, I realized that while I was in the hospital very sick with preeclampsia, they were galavanting around a nearby town while he was there for “work”. It’s been sickening to me to finally truly accept him for the monster he is.

      • Truly the monster that he is. True words indeed. It takes a special kind of fucked up to cheat on your pregnant wife let alone just after she gives birth and is ill. I hope they all die alone and in pain. Fuckers.

    • Thomas–that is horrible. And cruel. I know it’s 18 years later, but if there is anything you can do to get that therapist fired, please do so. He should not be seeing patients.

      • Tempest – The “Christian” therapist was reported by another woman whom he had abused as well – one of who knows how many. He had to relinquish his license for that one. One bit of satisfaction for me: my wife blurted, “I thought I was the only one he had an affair with!” Guess she found out she wasn’t so special after all. He stopped being a therapist with clients and went on to be a professor of psychology at a large Christian university in Virginia (founded by a well-known tv preacher, now deceased). He then moved to a small Baptist school in Pennsylvainia. There he retired just a month before I sent court documents exposing his deeds to that schools president and board chairman. He was assisting with on-line courses at that point. The school president wrote me and said that he had been fired from his on-line work. I got my licks in, but it’s small comfort. How can I break free from 40 years of emotional and financial ties without wrecking my life. Still struggling with that.

        Kay – thanks for the hugs!

    • I remember hearing your story before, Thomas. That is so sick for your wife to invite her AP to your baby’s first ultrasound. I understand your confusion as to how you’re supposed to act, how you wonder how to handle such a strange situation while everyone else seems to accept their weird behavior as normal. That happened to me several times as well. I’m so glad you confirmed that your daughter is biologically yours.

    • Thomas, that is just so sick! I’d want to kill that guy. You are brave and gracious and I am glad your daughter is yours.

    • What is it with male therapists sleeping with their patients?! Appalling boundaries, and so unprofessional and unethical even if the patient is single. That was appalling for your wife to invite her lover along to the ultrasound & appalling for him to accept. My only humiliation was cooking for OW after an ear operation at XH’s suggestion ( she was our sons poor single mum music teacher) She was unbearably dull company because she kept whining in her little girl voice “oh I must look so awful!”. I feel for all of you who endured far worse humiliations.

  • 1, 2, and 3. Yes.
    And my sociopath et al. saw all my meds in the refrigerator every time they opened the door to the refrigerator to mix another drink. And my sociopath et al. saw my IV pole used to hang umbrellas every time they walked past the living room to the bedroom – my humorous attempt at camouflaging a daily reminder that I have a progressive, incurable disease.

    Yeah. Sociopath isn’t too strong a word. I left. I feared for my life. And I left.

    • Elizabeth, so sorry, they are so cruel and you are so brave. Thank goodness you left. People who can be so cold and cruel truly are dangerous, they are capable of anything, the worst we can think of doesn’t even come close.

  • I certainly agree that these extra special sickos are lazy and cheap but I also think they enjoy the added thrill they get from bringing their activities closer to their chump. Probably helps them with the devaluing process and as already mentioned, the “you’re not the boss of me” mentality.

    As far as I know, cheater didn’t have any of his local partners in our house. While gathering evidence before confronting him, I found out that the OW I caught him with had recently purchased a car – same make as mine. Cheater does work-related business with a local car dealership where he has a specific salesperson who handles his business. We’ve purchased a few personal vehicles from this person as well over the years – to the extent that this guy knows me by name and I called him directly when needed. Turns out that cheater set up that OW and another one with this guy for their vehicle needs. I have no idea if the sales guy knew what was going on but I’ll never go there again.

    I think cheaters also have the “you’re not the boss of me” mentality in their work environment. Most companies (his included) have rules against managers having improper conversations and relationships with their employees. It was a feeding ground for him though! Sex in the office, in the parking lot, and in the nearby crappy motel with his howorkers and prostitutes. I can’t imagine how many times D and I got in his car with him smugly knowing what he’d been doing in there – makes me sick. He didn’t have to worry about me finding condoms because he never used them. And of course when he traveled – buying dinner and drinks for random whores and billing them to his company as work related.

    Compartmentalize – check. Closer to home life – check. Sicko – check.

  • My sicko did the following, all while telling me I was crazy and selfish:

    Brought his girlfriend to our house while I was working and our two small boys were in the house.

    Had girlfriends calling, showing up while we were out and one showed up at the house drunk.

    Met a girl at a bar while we are out on a date and I was 5 months pregnant, then dropped me off at the house, told me he didn’t know why, but he just had to leave again. Had a two-year affair with that one.

    Fast forward 15 years after our reconciliation (he went into a mental hospital for a month for his anger issues, because I kicked him out for his abusive behavior and I stupidly took him back)

    Abuse starts all over again, especially to my teenage son.

    After I kick him out again and the church brings us back to counseling, the elders assure me they can fix it, then sicko meets up with an xGF on facebook and within 10 weeks is on a romantic cruise with her, right before our 20-year anniversary. When I found out, he coldly tells me with a smug on his face “I told you to be nicer to me.” Then spends the next two years trying to convince me it was all my fault.

    Reading all that I sound like the sicko for staying, but I did get help for my issues and I divorced him. I am getting better, healing and happy. He is still a sicko.

    • ChumpedToTheMax, you will find that you’re emotional health improves exponentially as time goes by that you’re away from him. So glad you are free from someone so cold that he’d say, “I told you to be nicer to me” as justification for his abusive behavior.

      • Thanks Lyn…my emotional health is better than ever. I am not having panic attacks any more and other than an occasional nightmare, I am doing great. It is all a process, but I feel great about finally getting rid of my toxic spouse and finding new healthy relationships.

        • I hope you threw the Cheater’s behavior into the faces of “the elders” that facilitated his unfaithfulness. I also hope you found another church if that’s something that helps in your life.

  • My ex chose the babysitter and then the co-worker. There are probably a few others I do not know about. All the affair partners were married as well. Sex was wherever was closest. They defiled every marital home and every family vehicle. I went out of town and his howorker came to play house with my kids. He decided to spread his sperm all over my side of the bed and leave it. I have found underwear on my kitchen floor….luckily my kids were not up to find it for me.
    I had a set of twins in May 2014. He took us shopping for a new vehicle. I signed off on it under the pretense that it was for our family. Little did I know that it for his new family. His howorker was pregnant.
    We divorced December of 2015 after a lonnngggg court battle. In the end I got everything I wanted….except ptsd (uggg). He just married the howorker and the vehicle he had was just repoed. He was unable to exercise his visitation due to lack of transportation. All good things come to an end eventually.
    Throw in me finding out about a few threesomes he had and my dumbass supporting him for two years when he lost his job. That’s my story.
    He is a nightmare, narcissistic, fuckin.
    I’m so happy to no longer be playing marriage police!
    I’m not sure if you all were aware…the tooth fairy only visits mom’s house (learned that last week).
    LOL

  • My ex is a combination of both the compartmentalizer AND the one who gets a big boner from deceit and confirmation of how clever and slick he is by being able to hide things.

    The downfall of that kind of thinking is that, just like the psychopath in that card task example with the one track mind, they eventually get sloppy because they’re so starved for their next thrill that they forget to erase texts, forget to log out of secret email accounts, etc. because all they can think about is the next hole and because they really do think they’re too smart to get caught in the first place. They also don’t consider that if push comes to shove, some of their affair partners will throw THEM under the bus to save their own asses if light is shed on all those not-so-secret-anymore misdeeds. I know one of my ex’s affair partners threw him under the bus big time when the shit hit the fan. She told me when, where, what they talked about, what they did and everything else all over text. Suddenly this woman who LOVED my husband, according to past texts shared between them, was willing to do anything to escape the wrath of a scorned wife threatening to expose her and everyone else involved. Her “love” for him turned into an almost immediate self preservation on her part.

    Now THAT is something to revel in and feel superior for when you’re the chump forcing the truth out of these bird brains and their colluders.

    And that shit about affair partners being at weddings? One of his ho-workers he had an affair with was at our wedding and in the background of several of our wedding pics, one of which was when she caught my bouquet. They carried on for YEARS off and on and the last time they boinked was four months before everything started coming out. I found her nude pics in his phone that he thought he’d deleted. Her mom, brother and fiancé got to see that. ?

    These fuckers aren’t half as clever as they think which is how they get caught. That fetish for deceit keeps chumps only a step or two away from catching them. That’s what happens when you’re controlled by caveman animal urges.

  • I was married to a sicko as well. Mine was cheating on me while pregnant with our little girl and asked to have the OW made godmother. Then when we needed babysitting, he brought her in to watch her kids….and practically live with us. My daughter was almost 4 years old when I found a bag stuffed in the back of the kids closet with a bottle of lube, my sister’s bra and a video tape. When I viewed the tape, it was of him having sex with the OW in the living room and wait for it….our two month old daughter was in the background. At one point and time, she started to cry and he stopped screwing his whore to feed her a bottle. Once I confronted him and threw his whore out, he tried to make himself look like he was sorry, but his applogies were so contrived and full of lies I looked at him like “really”? I told him “you’re not sorry, you’re just sorry you got caught”. Oh and did I mention that we rented our first floor apartment to the OW identical twin sister and her husband at the time…needless to say, they moved out….oh and during the 5 months before I kicked him out, he set up spy cameras in my house to spy on me since I kicked him out of the bedroom and made him sleep in the couch. When I finally confronted him about the cameras, his response was “oh, so that’s where my stuff went”. I hate to say that isn’t all…in checking my computer (I was trying to clean up the hard drive), I found a file labeled “bible”. In in I found no less than 30 hard core porn videos. I also found porn videos in his bag for work, the emergency bag we kept in the front hall closet, and on unmarked DVDs in the living room. The first year, I actually spent the entire Christmas vacation taking every disk and feeding them into a player to see if there was more…after I found porn about every 12th disk or so I decided to shorten the process by just separating everything that was mine, chucking the porn and bagging up the rest.

    I wish that were the end of the story….I kicked him out and he moved in with his parents…and took the OW there. But get this….I own his parents house. They have since stopped paying he mortgage and I have been trying to evict them. They think their son is not a bad person…Back in court tomorrow….

    You would think with all of this he would take responsibility for a thing…he was too lazy to finish school so he make more money, but not lazy enough to fight me in court…26 months and 15 court visits later the divorce was finally granted by the judge. Just waiting for the decree.

    • Kurleegirl–your story makes me despair for humanity. I am so sorry for the skyscraper-level of shite you have suffered through. Hang in there; almost over. Hugs!

    • Kurleegirl, I’m so sorry for what you went through and that you had to see videos of your ex with OW. That would be a hard thing to get out of your mind. So glad you are free from such a sicko!

    • Kurleegirl,

      Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      This ass-clown is a walking Jerry Springer episode.

      So so sorry that you have to endure this abuse and cruelty, really I am.

    • Kurleegirl,
      I come here not only for strength, but perspective. I am relatively unscathed. So sorry you are going through this. You are mighty and inspirational. Big internet hug from Australia.

  • MY Fucktard of 36 years called me as I was out of town, wanting to know what I wanted him to do with our king size bed that he FUCKED HIS 29 YEAR OLD SLUT ON….. I told him, burn it for all I care.
    I came home to the new owners of My Dream home calling me asking what they were to do with “all of HIS stuff” left in the garage???? Sure enough, along with all his other shit, there was that bed. So my sister along with our two grown sons went over and once again, cleaned up after him. TRUST THAT THEY SUCK!!!!

    • had-it,
      What is it with not taking their stuff? Mine was the same. 9 weeks in the house before he moved out and he still left stuff. I am waiting for settlement so I can sell it (I ended up packing up all his other paperwork and making him take that).

      • Mine left his stuff-stinking old mattress,wardrobe with no doors-and burgled my house! Took my new bed, TV Vcr, etc?

  • When they’re bringing their AP around you, with the AP’s spouse, and playing with your kids, and hanging out together in front of you, the AP’s spouse, and other friends that know about the A (but you and the AP’s spouse are in the dark)………what the hell do you say about something like that? What can you say? What does that person say to themselves to justify doing that? And how do two people do that to their spouses simultaneously in front of everyone?

    My spouse and the AP did that, and that was actually confirmation to me in my mind that nothing was going on. Because who would do something like that? Certainly not somebody that I married. But holy hell was I wrong.

    I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how/why they did (or were able to do) stuff like that – all the time. Was I really that bad of a person, or what did I do, to drive my spouse to the point where they needed to parade the AP around in front of me, our children and our friends? I’ll never understand that one. All you can do is pick one (or all) of the reasons CL gave. It’s really disturbing.

    • Blindside it’s very disturbing. It’s just hard to digest all this stuff. Reading all these comments that people say does help (although it’s sad) to know I am not alone.

      • No you are not alone. So very many in this same boat and at 62 i will remain forever single this happens way too often and seems way too acceptable in todays society i will never take the chance or plunge again. While no longer bitter im sure as hell jaded. Im gonna save me for me!

        • You are a beautiful person inside; you’ve been through so much hell I think you’ve forgotten that. Take all the time you need to detox, but eventually, someone’s going to meet you and think the world of you… and feel very lucky that you are available. You’ll find happiness again. You’re too smart and funny not to. Sending you big long-distance hugs!

          • Aw thanks sunny you may be right but i wont ever give any guy the chance to get that close to me again. I wont trust him. But its ok. Im gonna let me be me.

            • Blindside-

              ” I’ll never understand that one” – the reason you will never understand that is because you are a healthy-minded human being.

              Only the disordered can understand that level of deceit.

    • Blindside, I remember asking my counselor if refusing to “be friends” with the Howorker and her husband is what drove my ex into her arms. I was so relieved with my counselor said, “It sounds to me like you were just trying to protect yourself.” I’d never thought about it like that before.

      It is hard to believe that people can do things like that, and it makes you feel like something is wrong with you that you feel so creeped out and upset about their behavior. I remember once when OW showed up on our doorstep AGAIN with my husband’s dry-cleaning that my MIL answered the door. I made comment about this woman hanging around all time, and my MIL snorted and seemed disgusted with me for acting jealous! It made me feel bad about myself and like I was the one with the problem.

      • Lyn, I remember I asked my H to stop being friend with the ho- worker, because every time I saw them text to each other, I just had the sick feeling towards it, my H said they were just friends and she is a really nice lady, that I’m the one being unreasonable. So he told his mother, his mother called me right away to tell me his son is working so hard for the family, so I shouldn’t give him harder time by make something out of nothing. After a month, he told My MIL that he indeed had a EA with that ho-worker, if he should’ve tell me, my MIL said to my H ” don’t you ever tell her about this, she should never know.” I hate her so much!

      • Lyn, you had every reason to be “jealous,” as jealousy is part of our early-warning system that something is wrong in a key relationship. You weren’t being “jealous” that some other girl made the cheerleading squad or go asked to the prom; you were jealous because someone was all over your boundaries and flaunting it in your face. Your body and unconscious mind was not telling you that you “this can’t be true.” They were saying–danger!!

        There is of course unwarranted jealousy, or as I think of it, toxic insecurity. That’s not jealousy, which is awareness that the boundaries in a relationship have been compromised.

        PS–your MIL is an idiot. Maybe the apple doesn’t fall from the tree.

    • So disturbing. My STBX introduced me to the whores to. Usually with the line “You’ll really like her”. I thought they were just aquaintences he had met at Rotary and other charitable fundraising events he was right into!! Good cover for the whole disgusting shit fest.
      One even tried to become my bestie referring to me as the sister and my Douchebag as the brother she always wanted. Found out later her own family disowned her because of her dysfunction, (I digress though) and one wanted desperately for my oldest daughter to like her so much, that she was sending written affirmations into the universe that they would be “Great friends”. My daughter hates her guts and when Douchebag introduced her and my two oldest daughters to the cumbucket and her two daughters at a Matt Corby concert, (which he paid for… But she paid him back right!!! Yeah sure she did). We barely acknowledged her and her two girls. As we were excited about going in to hear the music. She was bitterly disappointed that she didn’t get a chance for any conversation and Douchebag didn’t go out and meet up with her as promised and then lied to her the next day and that was the beginning of the end for her. The lightbulb was flicking on and she started to “Get It” that he was just using her as pussy Kibbles. So glad they kept a record of everything on FB and her X shared with me. Was quite the eye opener into their alcohol stepped sorid little fantasy. Now all his OW hate him. Which is hilarious. And she’s had to sell her house, lost her marriage and now her boyfriend all because she is a cheating douchebag. Some people just never learn and it’s so nice to see the Karma bus really does exist.
      Unfortunate due to PTSD I now trigger whenever it’s innocently said by anyone and I have to work really hard to not spiral into a panic attack. thank goodness for great therapists and family and friends and fantastic kids.

  • “….how moister their muffins are.” Yes, slutbucket was doing her own style of Pick Me Dance since I’m an outstanding mother, way prettier than she is and just a better person in every way imaginable. I’m completely certain that the only way she felt she could be “beat” me was to do the horribly revolting and degrading sexual acts he was mad I wouldn’t perform. How lucky of her to win that contest — I’m sure she just LOVED doing shots of semen and/or sucking it up through a straw. (This is no joke.) So thankful that I am the “loser” of that competition!

    OW definitely got off on I Know a Secret You Don’t Know. She eagerly told me about a “new guy” she was dating (my then husband) without naming him, and she gushed on and on about how big his dick was. (It isn’t.) While I was taking her neglected kid to Vacation Bible School and she was screwing in my house.

    Other “romantic” places they hooked up: the back of his work van and on unfinished floors in our rental properties. I can almost hear the violins playing in the background as they lower themselves onto the dusty subfloor, pushing piles of dead cockroaches out of the way and resting her feet up on a sawhorse.

    Yep, she *won* the guy. I’ve never been so happy to be a loser in my entire life.

  • Yep, Mr Fab and the Downgrade are a special pair of snowflakes. TWU WUUUUUV!

    For those who don’t know, Downgrade was my ex sister in law- she broke up with Mr Fab’s younger bro when her kiddo was 2, mine just born. They were closer than sisters, and Downgrade moved with her Catatonic Chump boyfriend to the end of the street, partly so all 3 cousins (Mr Fab has another bro) could go to school together. She was over at our place 3-4 times a week, and although I didn’t see it due to the Industrial Grade Spackle I was using, they were at it from the year ????

    It doesn’t really matter how long any more. I dodged a bullet. I know that now.

    Mr Fab worked shifts, and Downgrade had no job, so according to a neighbor, she would see Downgrade at the window, watching for me to taker my and HER kiddos to school. She would wait about ten minutes, then walk into my house without knocking, fuck my partner in our bed, and then turn up for dinner the same night, all easy-osey, playing the devoted Auntie and friend. All the while, Mr Fab was husband of the year-apart from only ever kissing me in public, refusing to come to bed when I was awake, and then calling ME frigid.

    When I confronted him on d-day, I asked him to please explain why I shoild not consider him a nestshitting coward. His retort was that he was there talking to me, so he was no coward. LOL. He then had the gall to say thank goodness the sneaking was over, it had been driving HIM nuts!!!

    Fast forward three years. Tried coparenting, nearly cost Kiddo and I our sanity. When she turned 14, she said, hey Mom, let’s go live in country X. She is now a senior in HS, has as little as possible to do with her donor-skype once a month, visit once a year, and she will be 18 and launched soon.

    Hang in there, Chumps. Leave the sickos where they belong. A long way behind you.

    x-Meh

    • Oh, and she used to joke about how I got “the pick of the litter”.

      I have news for you, Schmoopie, but I won’t be there to see you get it:

      Pick of the litter is still a dawg*.

      Meh

      * note spelling. No offence intended to dogs, who have more brains and heart than any common or garden cheater. Even when they are licking their own genitals.

      • Even if cheaters could reach they wouldn’t lick their own genitals because it wouldn’t involve having power over another human being.

        Mehphista–your X is a massive sicko, on so many fronts. The family-member fuckers are lowest of the low.

  • Hmmm… I guess mine could be classified as a sicko. I don’t think he ever brought her to our house but I could be wrong. He did send her approximately $2000 out of our joint bank account over the course of last summer, telling me he was sending his mom money on a weekly basis to help her with groceries.

    When I saw a charge coming out of our bank account from her city I questioned that and he told me he had given his mom the card number and she bought a tire.

    He also told me he was thinking of buying his mom and stepdad new phones for her birthday because they only had pay as you go phones. A few weeks later something comes in the mail letting him know he’s been approved. When I ask him if he decided to go ahead with buying the phones he told me yes. Too bad the whore’s husband outed her. He (the husband) asked me what phone carrier we used and let me know after he had kicked her off his phone plan that she and her daughter both had new iPhones. I actually made the payment for them.

    When I saw another charge from the whore’s town he claimed he had bought his mom groceries.

    Probably the sickest thing he did was request naked pictures of me while he was with her. One time was when I was on vacation with the kids and he, unbeknownst to me, was with her. Kept telling me how hot I was while he’s cheating on me with her. The other time I was aware of where he was because I’d had him followed. He still had the nerve to send me a text asking me why I hadn’t sent him a picture of my boobs yet. Actually what he asked was, “Why the hell don’t I have a picture of your tits yet?” Because you’re a lying, cheating asshole! It was so tempting to let him know I knew but I was still getting my ducks lined up.

    In hindsight I probably should have seen this coming. He would frequently take pictures of me while I was sleeping (naked). That was a sign, right? In the end her husband also let me know CF had indeed shared nude photos of me with the whore. What a guy! Of course, he’s fucking his cousin so that should be a dead giveaway that he’s a sicko. ??

  • While I was traveling for work, my ex-husband first brought one woman to our home and asked her, “Does it look like a woman lives her?” (according to my son, who the asshat involved in his affairs). Later the same week, he brought the AP to the house and showed her around…later that night, the two of them went out to a bar, leaving my young son at home with a fire burning in the fireplace. Assholes.

    He also tried numerous times to get me to eat shitty food that I know she she made for him…made by a “friend,” supposedly. I always refused, telling him I don’t like to eat food unless I know who made it. . Ugh.

    I am happily divorced now!

  • I was told on my first therapy session that his actions were those of a narcissist and his pattern of abuse increased each and every year. Forty one to be exact. If I stayed it would kill me. He robbed me of my very identity and soul.

    Those words started my journey in gaining my life back. How did this pattern develop? The qualities I possessed as a selfless, giving empath, fixer who loved unconditionally made me vulnerable raw meat to the covert, sadistic, narcissist, sociopath.

    My famiky history of a raging narcissistic father and a battered mother with Stockholm syndrome set the stage with a lack of boundaries and respect.

    I was determined to live a better life and was well aware of abuse. I believed I found a Good Guy who appreciated my qualities and shared my goals in life.

    What I didn’t know about was covert narcissists. They mirror your kindness, a agree with everything, appear to be empathetic, and lead you to believe they are the victim in every aspect of the relationship. He took care of the children, attended all events and we were inseparable. The brainwashing begins immediately. How did he keep me there? He professed his love daily. He wrote poems and was a tremendous manipulator. When I said I couldn’t believe I should have. I now recognize I became my mother despite the agonizing amount of energy I put into ‘saving’ her well into my adult life. She died in her prison tied to her abuser in 2014. Within months of her death I had my final DDay. We have to save ourselves. I did.

    • “What I didn’t know about was covert narcissists. They mirror your kindness, a agree with everything, appear to be empathetic, and lead you to believe they are the victim in every aspect of the relationship. He took care of the children, attended all events and we were inseparable. The brainwashing begins immediately. How did he keep me there? He professed his love daily. He wrote poems and was a tremendous manipulator.”

      Doingme- This is probably the most powerful paragraph I have ever read in my life. I feel its powerful because it is the spot on accurate truth of a covert narc.

      My ex-wife also professed her love for me daily! That was the part that threw me off. She would say things like, “Rob you are the greatest husband and the greatest father in the world – and I am so lucky that your all mine – I love you Rob.” That statement was made just before starting her last affair.

      I have been happily divorced for almost 4 years now. Beginning of this year I had to go from gray rock to no contact (have 3 kids). Because of that she has ramped up her covert abuse towards me also using the kids in some instances. It is exhausting and am in the midst of seeking full custody. I wish my story ended when I divorced this cruel cunt (prob the worst name I ever called anyone) but I am merely just in the interlude. My long-time feeling of indifference for her has recently changed to hate. I need my indifference feeling back and to come back permanently.

    • I lived with a covert narc, for sure. Loved me to bits, dinners, ‘love you’s’, ‘best mom and wife in the world, and so happy to be with you’, everything. My lover, my best friend, my business partner, my equal. I just didn’t see he was not equal, he was a mirror with an empty space behind it. Divorced now since 2 months, very proud I managed because he didn’t want me to go, cried and begged, while still screwing around because I wouldn’t take him back to bed, found that out later too. Funny thing is, I am very exhausted and sad, where I would like to just be angry or indifferent. I have every right to be angry:
      – went to dinner with him in our hometown and joked about the waitress being jumpy. Found out after DD he had a half year affair with the 23 year old under my nose
      – had sex with one of my friends (still not even mad at her, just sad, I feel numb)
      – admitted the first affair was in a town I know he only once went when I was pregnant. My son is 9 years..
      – found text to last AP with nude pic of himself in my bed, to say he was sorry I came home unexpected (from scattering my mothers ashes), while I was brushing my teeth and had sex with him after
      – last holiday before DD was to his AP’s birthplace, so he could see for himself where she used to live as a child, while making love to me and having romantic dinners there and texting her.
      – After DD he begged and cried but still fucked 8 women. When I filed, he chose one of them to be his new girlfriend and introduced her to the kids.
      We coparent, no contact is difficult but on my way. I feel hollow when he is around and shield myself from the manipulation, I feel better when I am by myself or with the kids. But it’s heavy. I miss what I never had, I am still blown away with what happened and am sad. Still love myself though and my beautiful boys, my dog and dear friends (minus 1). Thought I saw Meh a while ago, but it slipped away. Should be here any day again now…

      • Keep working on that No Contact; as All Out of Kibble would say, the path to the truth and the light.

      • Grace, just wow. Very inspirational on how you mention meh should be here any day now. Im sure meh is going to bring you their 2 friends, peace and serenity. 🙂

        Yes, life with the covert narc, before and after the sham that they called marriage is madening!

        Your words to describe all of our covert narc spouses clocks it PERFECTLY – “I just didn’t see he was not equal, he was a mirror with an empty space behind it”. – You just get it and so does Doingme. I wish you both endless smiles!

  • Richard Grannin has many videos about covert narcissists. In one he describes prisoners who are tortured by their ABUSERS, demean them and repeatedly make statements about hating the prisoner.

    He then described prisoners who are tortured while the abuser repeatedly tells the they love them. It’s an exaggerated example of how coverts gain control through brainwashing.

    • That’s powerful. I’ll look into his work. Thanks for letting us know; we can never learn enough about these dangerous people.

    • wow just wow. I just finished an hour drive. put on richard over car speakers and just wow. My ex to a tee! This helps me doingme. I just needed a refresher on who i have been dealing with cause all the current harm this cunt has been inflicting . Ha i have an hour drive home shortly so richard will be back on. Thxs for today doingme!

    • Just listened to his ‘brainwash’ video that mentions the abusers that ‘love you’. Crying right now, I’m starting to crack. In a good way though. It was tough. I stood tall, it’s done now, I’m divorced and save. I hurt, which is ok, I’m not a machine. I’ll be fine. And sooooo free.

  • “I Know a Secret You Don’t Know. It makes them feel powerful to see you unknowingly humiliated this way”. – how true chump lady, how true.

    This happened all through our marriage and I have recovered from that abuse. (Ex: fucking my sisters husband in my home, on my bed / fucking a really good friend of mine in the garage / opening credit cards under my mom’s name / I can go on an on and on!). Also, she knew when I went to confront my sis’ husband at his home -with my baseball bat- that he had a gun in his pants ready to use on me. She didn’t warn me at all – lucky he didn’t answer his door.

    Here is my problem…..she is still inflicting new pain and abuse directed towards me. I am basically no contact with her and because of that she ramps up her contemptuousness and covert/style behavior towards me even though I am almost 4 years divorced from her!

    We spoke about this on a thread last week, the current cruel behaviors include continuously teaching my 14 yr old daughter to lie and disrespect me for her gain, fucking my son’s baseball coach, trying to destroy my reputation, etc, and I have proof of it all!

    I can’t help to think that she really loves to see me humiliated like this even though I am basically no contact. How can I not have this type of pain affect me?

    UPDATE: And yes, I have been seeking full custody but as long as there is breath in her lungs, she will continue this.

    • SureChumped,
      Your ex sounds a little like my now-partner’s cheater ex wife. They have been divorced 15 years but she still uses every opportunity to inflict pain. When I came on the scene three years ago, chump guy was still letting it hurt him every time.

      They have three now-grown children, although they split when youngest was six. Ex has been torturing chump ever since. She managed to turn youngest daughter against him, despite his being a fine, kind, generous Dad who paid more than enough support and had a home available for shared custody. Cheater ex wife convinced daughter to refuse to visit her Dad. When the sons came to visit, they would take back any detail they could, including copying his bank stqtements…which he caught them doing. She bad mouthed him all over town, we know because numerous friends have recounted the stories.

      Now that you gest is 21, he is free of any obligations,,and daughter has made adult friends with her Dad. She is a nice girl and sees her mother for the monster she has been. Chump finally sees that being patient during the tough years pays off when the kids grow up and see the truth.

      The problem has been been that Chump guy refuses to bad mouth the kids’ mother. They don’t seem to know of her history of fucking their tennis coach, their Dad’s former best friend, and her own boss…all local guys who used to be friends with Chump. She too brought her tennis lover to their family bed. She is a vile, mouthy woman. I figure that karma will eventually hit…her kids will hear the stories eventually.

      So, as it happens, the other day she called Chump with some feeble excuse for phoning. It was nothing to do with him, but was a situation where his intervention could have saved her some money. He politely refused to engage with her, and she responded by bitching him out. I could hear it across the room, she was so loud. So, I took the phone, and quietly but firmly said in my best courtroom voice “any more communication of this nature will have me up your legal ass so fast, you won’t know what hit you. And by the way, I have deep pockets that can outlast a pathetic wench like you. Back to your fuck buddies”. I heard a gasp and then click.

      Chump guy was mortified that anyone would stand up to her. He is afraid to “wake the dragon”. I think that confronting a bully, finally, when you have nothing you want any more from them, works. She can bad mouth me all she wants. She no longer has any credibility in our community…I hear that regularly.

      For you, I hope your daughter eventually comes around. In the meantime, take a cynical approach that for now, everything she utters may be fed to her by her mother. Just stick to your court ordered obligations. Fighting for full custody is likely poking the dragon and may be why you are a target.

      • Thanks for sharing your story Marci – made a lot of sense. Her abuse has been ramping up since I went No contact earlier this year. No kibbles = abuse.

        After finding out she has been driving the kids around all summer drunk as hell, I then went for fighting for full custody. My 14 yr old daughter recently was passed out drunk mimicking her mothers behaviors. Ex wife is also telling my daughter to lie and disrespect me – i even have copies of the texts so I am 100% sure. There was also some parental alienation.

        None the less I have always been close to me kids so they understand what their mother has done and is doing is wrong. My daughter started to buy the manipulation from my covert-narc ex wife but i think I caught it early enough. My daughter expressed extreme remorse to me for her lying and disrespect. I will remain vigilant.

        Lastly the kids feel that their mom is “kinda a monster – only when she drinks” this is what they said and what hurts them are her broken promises. My oldest (15) doesn’t buy his moms bullshit and I think the other 2 will eventually follow suit. Gosh I just wish the ex would just get married or something and leave me alone.

        • You were married to a massively disordered woman. I’m so sorry you are dealing with her. Your attorney might send a “cease and desist order” if she is slandering you.

          It might be that screwing the baseball coach was not aimed at you, but rather just a manifestation of her disregard for his kids, particularly your son. All of the disrespect she is “teaching” is also part of controlling the kids. I just read something this morning about how narcissists want kids to reflect them. You, I think, may in part be collateral damage.

          • Thanls LAJ

            Always love hearing your perspective. Smiles to ya

            I agree about the bball coach as it was disregarding my son first and foremost. But I also feel she anticipated my reaction because the coach was my friend. Plus she did the same thing with a married baseball dad while we were married – I kicked her out and filed for divorce the following day. Next time, no reaction from me = no dinner for the beast.

            Yes yes yes all the disrespect she is teaching kids is for her to control. She needs control because she knows she is out of control.

            Collateral damage yes on some instances but other instances manipulating anyone that will listen that she is the victim that way she doesn’t feel like she is a bad person. Its better to blame me for her actions. Her classic line right after dday, i still laugh at this idiocy….., “Rob I know myself, I would of never -never-never done all these things to you if I would of loved you the way I should of.” – well gollllly

    • SureChumped

      Coverts think nothing of using the children. Never mention her to them. Call your children out on disrespect and be the better parent. More than likely the narrative began long before you realized. Model integrity and do not take the bait. It is maddening. My granddaughter at 13 repeated the cheaters narrative, that he loved me but was not in love with me. If they initiate, set them straight. Kids are very much impacted by the SICKO s. Hugs to you.

      • Thanks doingme,

        Great words of wisdom from a great person. I responded to you on your covert narc post above and it was brilliant!!

        I have been doing everything that you mentioned except “never mention her to them”. Can you explain that one to me please also?

        Hugs to you also.

        • SureChumped

          When she covertly triggers you it is crazy making. She WANTS power. Don’t react by initiating conversations about HER to your children. Make your home the safe place for them. It’s different however if it is a safety issue.

          Hope that helps. They are so underhanded.

  • I never did and never will get the whole truth out of snake. He never admitted to cheating on me even once.

    But there was all kinds of weirdness over the years that had my gut screaming.

    Times he and a female co-worker had to “work” at their boss’s house when the boss was out of town, because they got interrupted too much at the office to get any “work” done. The same female co-worker he greeted warmly at a company party, leaning in close to her with his hand on her neck, gently caressing her neck with his thumb, right in front of me, holding my hand with his other hand, feeling me tense up and squeeze that hand very hard, and not fucking stop what he was doing, and later gaslight me into thinking I’d seen nothing out of the ordinary.

    I think sometimes the sickos flaunt their shit hoping to get us to make a scene in public to show how “crazy” we are. Snake didn’t get his wish that night, I didn’t confront him until after we got home.

    He had the same too-many-interruptions-at-the-office excuse for “working” at the home of a subsequent female boss of his. This woman, he’d take me, her and her daughter out to nice dinners on a semi-regular basis. He had me buy her daughter a Christmas gift, and then criticized my selection.

    Then there was another subordinate I met (who I have dubbed the Clueless Twatwaffle, because she seems to think he’s a fantastic, wonderful, honorable martyr to have stayed with me all those years) on their return from a business trip. I was picking him up from the airport, but he insisted that we drive her to the lot she was parked in, rather than having her get on the fucking airport shuttle bus. Such a kind and chivalrous gentleman he is, you see. And during that drive, my gut was screaming at me as they chattered about having missed the first morning meeting because they got lost looking for a donut shop. Oh, sure, nothing weird about that, right?

    If he wasn’t fucking them, he was triangulating like a madman to make me lose my shit over them. Or maybe he wanted my attention on them so I wouldn’t pay attention elsewhere.

    I left snake a few years later when I saw an email where he was using the same lines on the Clueless Twatwaffle that he used on me over a quarter century before…. He was clearly in hot pursuit, even if Twatwaffle was Clueless….

    Adios, fucking snake….

    • Ugh, Snakebit. So many parts of your story sounded similar to mine. My ex supposedly hated shopping, but came home with gifts for me and our kids one Christmas that he and OW had picked out on a shopping trip together. When I left our home I left the damn holiday pillows she picked out for him.

      He kept a picture of Coworker on his dresser for years sitting on his dresser on top of one of his horses. I would be cleaning and put the picture away, but the next day it’d be back up on his dresser.

      So glad not to live in that kind of environment any more.

  • Great analysis of sickos, CL.

    It was a huge joke in the family that X was not sensitive to consequences, and would do the same thing that had caused an adverse effect the time before. I routinely joked that he was dumber than a rat in a shock experiment.

    Yup–loved the deceit (more deceit? more power! yum yum). After his first big affair (that I didn’t know about) he decided he would go the adult-dating-site route and just fuck around but not have affairs. HE BOUGHT A SECOND HOUSE JUST TO DO THIS. It was in his name only, he didn’t tell me until he signed the papers on the house, and then told me he bought it as a surprise for me since I liked being downtown and we could use it as a weekend pied a terre.

    Fast forward to a few months after the divorce, when enough info rolls in that he has been screwing people from adult websites (Ashley Madison, Adult Friend Finders, probably Craigslist) and had intended that house to be his fuckpad for these big adventures. In other words, the bed I slept in for our downtown-weekends was also his infidelity bed. Just thinking about it makes me want to smother him with the mattress.

  • When I read the ORIGINAL “when your cheater is a sicko”…July 14, 2014….I was still married and had been given Chumplady’s link to push me to “leave a cheater and gain a life”. the comment section on that blogpost are probably the most horrifying, but also the most spine steeling read ever.

    i wasn’t ready then, but I never forgot that link, because it happened to be the “sickko” link. my NOW ex involved my then 5 year old daughter in his schemes, holding her as a shield with me and with his APs. he would beg me to allow him to stay by using her “welfare” as the biggest reason, and then i hear over time that he uses our daughter to brainwash his APs not to tell on him.

    i just reacently was contacted by an AP from that period (there were at least 4 now that i know of. simultaneously) that she had a year long relationship with my 5 year old, including her babysitting my daughter while my husband went to a class, and coming to my home during the day to pick her up for shopping trips.

    i never wanted to involve my daughter in finding out if this really happened, but i am going to question her gently, now that she’s 8. hopefully, with a church counselor’s help, i can have the final verification that i need to keep my daughter away from him permanently.

    ironically, tomorrow is my ex cheater’s birthday.

    i hope i have a really nice gift for him and it’s in the form of him staying 1500 miles away from us, with a ruined reputation, hopefully the loss of a job (he recently attacked one of his former APs in order to “prove himself” that he doesn’t love anybody but me and our daughter, so this woman is filing charges against him), and now I am hoping to be able to have full legal custody with visitation only with supervision.

    they never learn, do they!

    • Hopefully he keeps the job until your settlement is finalized. In certain states if he is unemployed and you are not, you could end up on the hook for spousal support.
      Good luck!

      • thanks UC, but he’s got himself into a load of trouble, i’m not worried about me paying him. i left him and he has had a job for almost a year now (he was a leech on me for years) and the reason he’s about to get fired is because of assault and battery on this woman.

        he’ll be in jail, hopefully. and full custody goes to me, in all likelihood. if anybody wants to know what the Karma Bus looks like…this is it.

        that guy Richard Grannon, the life coach…he tells you how to deal with sociopaths and malignant narcissists and i think that me just doing what i needed to do, get on with my life, was really making him unhinged. from what i heard, he lured this woman to meet him to set her up so that he could send me pics of how she was really “stalking” him.

        what they don’t realize is, is that we don’t care. I have a child to look after and I don’t care what he does. But in his mind, he thinks he’s got a shot.

        so this is Karma. It took a few years, but they do spiral out of control eventually. and my child will see him for exactly what he is…it’s unfortunate, but it’s better than her being around him and him using her to hurt me.

        i have a great job, with my fabulous family all around me and i have a bright future. he’s not in it and if this woman does what i think she’s going to do, he has no future left at all.

  • Cheater was such a sicko that he encouraged penniless OW to turn tricks on adultwork.com and sell naked photos of herself as “artistic photos” on ebay. He used to give her “reviews” on the tricking site and din’t seem to mind that she sold herself for sex, threesomes, orgies. He of course helped himself to his own portions of poontang, but the fact that it was him who took the photos in the first place says to me he simply got off on pimping her. To raise money she also sold her USED underwear, and “pussy pops” (guess what that is, it’s gross) on a sicko website. I know all this because she used the same handle for everything she did. It’s also how I found her address (yes she put her actual street address on the web) so I could send the cops around. Attention whore…comes with the territory.

    Anyway, there was lots of bog-standard sicko stuff where they shacked up at my house while I was away on business, stole my possessions and sold it all on ebay. OW was so stupid she wrote me an email bragging about it (why I will never know) but I used this as evidence to get the cops to raid their apartment and recover anything I had receipts for. OW had the nerve to file a complaint against the cops…which is never a good idea because she has since been on a,certain officer’s shit list.

    I may sound like a low-life, letting myself get involved with such people. However, if you had asked me about Cheater, I would have said he was the most mild middle class guy you ever met. He was funny, entertaining, good cook (attempted to poison me) and managed to fool me for 18 momths before his greed overcame his common sense.

    It just takes the misfortune of a Narc partner meeting a fellow Narc to turn an affair into a murder conspiracy. This is why people who,suspect their partner is a Narc would be best to run away and go NO Contact.

    These two winners of the game of life now have produced three devil spawn in the past three years. Poor kids, born only for the benefits they earn for their crazy parents. OW blogs incessantly about how she spends her benefit money, and makes youtube videos about all her health problems…anxiety, phobias, anger, jealousy, insecurities. I often just watch them for a good chuckle. If only she knew her real problem is that she’s even uglier on the inside than on the surface. Oh, and I just turned her in for tax evasion.

  • AP1 (that I know of) was a family friend: Kids went to preschool together, we spent weekends at one another’s homes, carpooled, celebrated holidays, etc. I’m 99% sure I was babysitting her kid a few times while she was fucking CheaterEx. During this time, I had a close family member dying of cancer, and as I was making plans to visit this relative one last time, CheaterEx came to me, tears in his eyes, and begged me to bring our son with me “to say goodbye.” (Son was 7, and wasn’t super close to this relative.) Yep, as I was reeling from losing someone who was a second mom to me, CheaterEx was looking to dump off our son so that CheaterEx and AP1 could spend a weekend fucking in my bed.

    And… in keeping with the theme of shitting where he eats, AP2 (that I know of), now OWife, went to school with me since kindergarten. He picked her up at my high school reunion. Classy. (See what I did there?)

  • Wait…..WHEN, they are sicko’s. They are all sick, selfish, liars, deceitful, scums, without conscience, hearts and most fall into the sociopath or psychopath category. Its beyond words to try to understand why they do what they do and still consider themselves NORMAL. They ARE NOT NORMAL!! I have nothing to add to these posts, my xh did them all pretty much. Cars, Hotels, Trucks, the Outdoors, business trips, random hoes, known hoes, friends, co-workers, god only knows. Risk taker is now a limp 59 year old, divorced POS, living in a RV park in his 5th wheel. YUCK. wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole. Hope my kids have lots of Purell around when he visits the grand babies because he doesnt wash his hands.

    I’m proud that I finally dumped my AHxh of 31 years and now live in MEH!! I need to order a few of those coffee mugs.

    Blessed at last <3

  • Hi all. I want to update soon as I saw the Cheater Wants to Live In My Basement repost last week.

    Had to comment today. Yeah, ex is a huge sicko. When he finished active duty with the military, we packed the house and the kids to return to our home town. Of course he had to return to the base shortly after the move to take care of some “unfinished business.” The day he was to fly back to the base, our youngest fell and broke his leg. Keep in mind, ex is a MD, but refused to believe it was broken and did not want to go with us to the ER because he couldn’t miss his flight. Well, yes it was broken, and I had movers coming, 2 small kids and one with a long leg cast. Had to get the utilities going, etc., etc. BUT, he just had to get back there. Turns out he was having a week long f*ck fest, in the home we just left, with his military AP-you know just to say goodbye!

    Fast forward to DDay. Found out he had Vajajay in our home for a weekend while I was away with my parents. Slept in our bed, our sons bed, sons couch where they watch TV. Yeah, a big FU. But chumpy me tries to save the M singlehandedly. We buy a vacation home to revive our M. You know, a place for just the two of us to reconnect. Within 6 months, I start finding hair clips, lotions, etc. in my bedside stand at the vacation home. He asked me to have the roof fixed as there was a leak right over the bed one weekend he was there “alone.” He even had the f*cking nerve, when I finally started clawing my way out, to ask if he could have my engagement ring that I wore for almost 30 years because Vajajay thought it was so pretty.

    WHY was I such a huge chump?

  • It IS startling, isn’t it? My ex-sicko got so brazen he was literally sending dick pics right under my nose, using his work phone to date online, even gave me the password to “check” his phone for him on D-Day. Dummy was stupid enough to have the same password for both phones, but I actually thank my lucky stars he was not more clever and devious! Due to his hubris I was able to bust him and get away. His excuse? “I’ve got a sickness.” Yeah, no shit.

    To me this quality is their only saving grace, because if you have just a bit of a brain, you can outsmart the fuckwits. Their appetites make them weak.

  • My ex albatross swore that even though he was in love with the howorker they had never slept together. The night before dday she sat across from me at a pub (and beside him) and giggled and laughed like we were all friends. Long after the divorce, I decided to sell the house which meant cleaning out the basement. The basement had always been his domain (porn, video games etc) so I had pretty much closed the door and pretended I had no basement. During cleanup I found an earring (not mine) and used condoms behind the couch – ewwww.

    Months before dday he had started working out and we went out together to buy him all new clothes (to impress her with). I even joked that he was showing the classic signs of having an affair and he said it was all for me. Every alarm bell in my being was going off and I told myself he was far to good of a person for anything like that – I had to be a horrible person for even considering such a thing. Lesson learned: Listen to your damn alarm bells and stop being a horrible person to yourself.

  • This has always perplexed me…Did my EX hope to get caught by having OW#2 at dinner parties, a guest at our summer home, etc.? Was that a thrill? God only knows. In retrospect, it would have taken a PI to figure out what was happening within 24 hours. I just trusted that my EX was working or watching the game with the guys.

    What I have come to understand is that having OW#2 – aka Unibrow – around was a way to ‘normalize’ or justify all the lies he was telling, especially to their co-workers (i.e., you know the old chestnut ‘we had a open marriage’ (news to me)). Unibrow would often seek me out and sit beside me in a group of friends at restaurant. So it appeared that ‘I was cool with it’. Also, I thought she was repulsive so I was not threatened by her and was OK if she came to dinner parties, etc. (EX was 40 and she was 25.) This turned up the notch on gaslighting and blameshifting. If EX was truly unhappy with me, why not end it and move on with 25 year old Unibrow? Why this complex juggling game and web of lies?

    My conclusion is that EX and Unibrow are both very very damaged people.

  • Cheaters are sick just by the nature of what they do. I know of a woman who was the OW. She would talk to her coworkers about her affair. Seems the more sick the event became the more exciting it was for her. She would boast about the intensity of the sex once her asshole started bringing her into the home and having sex in the marriage bed. Twisted shit….. Oh my spouse started skipping the hotel expense by stopping by her boy toys house. He was not married, but was engaged. The fiancé told me her son and her pictures were all over the house. So there was no question as to him being with someone else. I do not know if my spouse got off to the thrill of doing it in their bed or not…… prefer not to know. What I do know is these people suck!

  • Mine brought his Ho-worker to our house while my daughter and I were on vacation. I found out because my daughter discovered a picture on her I-Pad that he had taken of his Ho-worker sitting with one of our dogs. Later, I found a Father’s Day card the Ho-Worker gave to him while we were gone. She signed the card as if it were from all of her pets as well as my dogs. Classy.

    When I confronted him, he said “What? Was I supposed to take her to a hotel?”

  • I asked my cheating exH why they did it in our bed.

    The answer “We wanted somewhere to be together” ?! = Selfish + entitled.

    He did however say that he didn’t let her sleep on my side of the bed because “It didn’t seem right”.

    At this point I realised I was dealing with someone whose reasoning was beyond me.

    I didn’t bother to try and understand this, just carried on with the divorce and let her have the amoral screwball.

  • I came home from a business trip and found two things: long blonde hairs on my bedsheets, and a makeup item in my bathroom that was not something I ever purchased. Likely left on purpose by OW. I didn’t say anything to Ex. I simply installed a keylogger on the laptop and waited for evidence. I wanted to know who she was so I could at least exact some revenge…turns out, I didn’t need to, she was so utterly laughable. I don’t think he ever anticipated the guts I had to throw him out by changing the locks while he was at work. He was literally left with no,choice but to stay at her place. She had a single bed and a sofa in a one room apartment.

    Took me about four years, but I have now amassed enough printed evidence to have her nailed for tax evasion. It’s strangely gratifying for once to be a little sicko myself — revenge served cold. I may be well past meh, but I never forget.

  • My ex didn’t tell me until 5 years in that he had a wicked uncontrollable porn habit. He got caught on that one when he texted a girl from school(community college) pics from a porn. He didn’t count on the 18 year old girl telling her mother who flipped out, called the college and the police and not for my tap dancing to cover his ass would have been in a lot of trouble. Many therapists layer and he was still hiding the porn.
    Fast forward to 2015 when he started a new job at a local Melissa and decided the beautiful makeup artist was his next stop in Cheater sicko heaven. My ex is extremely handsome and I guess he finally found his equal in the looks department. The gas lighting and emotional abuse I suffered that year is unimaginable. Started an affair with her and until I found their disgusting pornagraphic emails to one another (usually sent at night when I was asleep) about all the things they had done and wanted to do to one another and then I found the videos he made of her “pleasuring” him when I realized he moved from videos of strangers to his own home grown ones. What idiot girl thinks a guy who loves and respects her would want to degrade her in that way. I kicked him out, divorced him and had a brief period of mental insanity when he told me he changed and wanted me back. That was until I found out they were still seeing each other, but it was only sex so what was my problem was his big reasoning. Oh and I should FORGIVE her because she “is really troubled and has a lot of problems”! Hell,yea she had a lot of problems, screwing other people’s husbands, allowing them to make porn videos of them and then taking him back after he’s dumped her at least three times trying to woo me. They deserve each other. Oh yea some of these things were done when her 4 year old was in the next room sleeping. I’ve never met a person who was so beautiful on the outside but so f’d up on the inside. Good riddance.

    • My bed went in the trash and made him buy me a new one before i even knew he fucked the slaves in it. Cost him plenty. Asswipe does not understand “taint”. Nice to see a guy who does. I was gonna let him keep the big truck but after i found the sex slaves were in it and my bed i changed my mind and got it in the divorce. My truck, mine. Gonna trade it in after i move on a much newer car. Let him keep driving the other 30 year old over heating falling apart slut wagon. Theres a new thread “what did we do with the tainted?” Just a thought. Shame though ian we have to rid ourselves of things where nothings wrong with them but they are tainted.

  • I don’t know how to call this. Perhaps you guys can help me.

    He paid a pro for oral, in our home, while I was at work. But that’s not all. In the baby’s room, in front of our 6 months old.
    How do I know it? Because he filmed the baby. He kept it quiet, but she said his name at some point. Kissing sounds from the groin area. And all the awkward sounds and gestures… arghh…

    Can you say a better “F you!” than his actions say??? Now can you read my nickname?
    All I’m thinking is that he F-ed our baby. He F-ed with his mind!

  • Oh mine was a sick sicko. He definitely loved the deceit of it. I agree, that was definitely a high for him, in addition to the extra sex. He effed the OW in our house (not sure if in our bed or not, don’t want to know).

  • I told my Ex to take all of the bedroom furniture. I was certain that he had fucked his whore in there and I didn’t want it. There were times that I was away for a weekend or like two weeks. It wasn’t nice furniture anyway. He may have fucked her on the couches, but he always complained about how much he hated those couches (even though he was with me when we picked them out, just normal Cluster B bitching and moaning about how they hate everyone and everything), so maybe not.

    Meh – I like the couches well enough.

  • *raises hand, hides face* I’m one of these chumps. Ex and slunt go back to when they were practically kids. She always brought the drama, he always wanted to be there to help her out. She was a two-faced bitch who did some really atrocious things (accused an ex boyfriend of raping her to make a new boyfriend feel sorry for her, accused her ex husband of molesting their kids so she could get a divorce without answering any questions–especially the big ones over her fidelity, supports her convict dad who’s now in prison for the “three strikes you’re out” rule for cold blooded murder of her step-mom), and I think the more I disliked her, the more she got off on worming her way into our life and family.

    We argued about taking her in when she needed surgery. I didn’t want her here because at that point she was a drunken mess who’d gotten her kids taken away by the state, ex felt sorry for her and worried she’d not be able to take care of herself on her own. And apparently that month and a half when she first moved in is when the affair started. They did it in the house with the kids and I upstairs, on my sofa, when they were supposed to be watching my then infant son, and when they weren’t fucking, they were constantly hanging out at our house, the bar or out bowling together. Yeah, I obviously hate bowling even more now. He says they never fucked in my bed but I didn’t believe them, and ran out as soon as I could to buy a new one, along with rearranging the house and my room in particular, and gave him the old bed so at least the baby and my older daughter wouldn’t be sleeping on air mattresses on the floor in his new “love shack.”

    It makes me sick to think of all the light bulb moments I can identify now. Why wouldn’t he take me out for dates? Because he had to ask her to sit for us. Why was she over here so much when he wouldn’t spend evenings with me? Probably because she’d give him a hummer in the sun room when everyone else was upstairs settling in for the night. The concerts they went to (with another friend so as not to look suspicious), the work Christmas parties they attended while I was home with the kids, all the meals I invited her over for because I pitied her after losing her kids and being alone even if I didn’t like her.

    The very worst of it was when I got pregnant with lo. They were already four or so years into it, they knew the probability of the conception even happening was through the floor but even that didn’t stop them. She feigned concern, was a shoulder for me to cry on when I told her this was not the right time for us to have this baby, and even came over during my seventh month of pregnancy to help me with shots because I was on bed rest and couldn’t prepare them myself while ex was on an ill-advised business trip. I even had a labor scare while he was gone (have a history of preterm labor) and her number was first on my list. And oops, she happened to leave her phone in the trunk of her car. She was probably hoping I’d have the baby early, it or I (or both of us) wouldn’t make it and then she’d have him free and clear.

    Even my being blind didn’t bother her when the affair came to light. She knew how much I struggled to give my kids a “normal” life, how dependent I was on ex, how much both of us struggled with dealing with my dangerous Autistic child. She knew it all yet she welcomed him into her home with her kids and open arms the day I finally threw him out two weeks after learning of the deceit.

    I shared my husband, her disgusting yeast infections, my time, my marriage, my home and even my children with an evil bitch who has no soul, no heart or no compassion. All she cares about is looking “hot” (if hot is stuffing ten pounds of sausage into a casing meant for five and wearing Forever 21 that you spill out of in all the wrong places at 42), she’s unintelligent and she is now mothering my twins who now live with their dad and according to my younger son, she’s doing everything she can to cozy up to and friend my unhappy and mentally unwell 14-year-old daughter.

    While I will never forgive my ex and feel all the fury and fire of hell for what he’s done too our family, my children and I, I want her dead. Simple as that. She wasn’t some anonymous hookup at a bar or business trip. She wasn’t an escort “just doing her job.” She wasn’t even a side piece who may of suspected ex was married but didn’t want to know the truth. She stood right next to my ex, taking turns to dig out the foundation of our marriage, family and relationship and then rolled around in the remains, fucking like sociopathic rabbits while it all tumbled down around the rest of us. Yes, I want her dead, and I want it to hurt.

    She has hurt me in more ways than I can count. Undermined my abilities and confidence as a mother, taken away my security about having food and a home for my children, and made me go through all of it alone with no thought or concern for someone she used to claim was a “best friend.” Some people say they wouldn’t wish this pain or situation on anyone? Not me. I wish it on both of them, and only hope I’m around to watch it go down.

    As for ex? He came from cheater parents, has been a cheater all his life and I actually feel sorry for him because he thinks all this happened out of “long forgotten and denied love” and that she only loves him and wants the best for both of them. Stupid is as stupid does, and he is an even bigger idiot than I was about the cunt. While stupid is no excuse, he has no idea what he’s up against, and doesn’t realize how well she’s played the entire situation. He was just a dumpy, horny guy with difficult kids and a disabled wife, wanting to have fun and not think about his rapidly approaching middle age. She wanted someone she could trap, and now she’s got him because she knows with my morals and sense of honor, I will never take him back.

    They’re welcome to each other. I only wish there was a way I could take her ass to court for everything she’s done to me and my family, but she’s also broke white trash so there’d be nothing to gain save for the satisfaction of dragging them both in public.

    Someday I’ll be more zen about this. I’ll find my meh. But it will be much easier when either or both of them stop breathing.

      • Thanks, Dixie. It’s been bothering me more lately, and I think that’s due to some really sentimental occasions coming up. Lo will be going to school for the first time soon, and it won’t be how I imagined it to be. It’s actually really lonely getting these guys ready for school this year, trying to make sure they have everything, trying to get my son back on the school sleep schedule and knowing I’m going to cry when my baby gets on the bus for the first time and there won’t be anyone here to hug me and tell me what a sap I’m being.

        And then her 3rd birthday is coming up in October, and while I’m planning, trying to buy presents and the like, the thought of it just being she, my son and I is so very sad to me. I know she’s young enough she won’t care, but I do. It feels so wrong. At least when the twins were here it was a celebration with all my children together. Now all the special occasions just remind me of how fractured my family and life have become, and it all gets back to the asshole and the cunt who put all this in motion. 🙁

    • CakelessinKalamazoo, I feel for you. You are in an enraged stage, a perfectly normal one. But it will pass, trust me. You will reach Zen, or Meh. Focus on you, put one step in front of the other and follow your path.
      They are both psychos, getting off from triangulating you. As soon as you disengage, it will become dreadfully boring for both of them. That is the pattern of psycho. Trust that they suck!
      I’m sorry I have to break it to you, but their affair started much earlier than when she moved in your house. Moving her in was another stage of their deceit. Now she is doing the pick me dance, trying to show him how she is better than you 🙂 I hope you see the irony in that.
      I wish you strength. You are mighty!

      • Hi Enraged. Oh yes, it was a definite problem going back to when my twins were babies. As soon as she got divorced and ex decided he wanted to talk to her again (he did tow the line and refused probably to shut me up in the beginning because I was so disgusted with what she’d done to her ex husband), it was a problem. He started going out to the bar with her for “friendly support” and not coming home until late despite having to work the next day, he still went out and wanted to party when I was working so spent very little time with me and they were constantly on the phone together like every fucking day.

        I filed divorce papers about a month after I threw him out and it was final last January. If I could get my life in order (find reliable help with daily family tasks being a blind mom trying to raise my kids alone presents–the only grocery delivery in my area is Amazon and taking a toddler and kid with Asperger Syndrome out alone in public is daunting to say the least) and if I didn’t have to worry so much about how to take care of us, I think meh would arrive much faster. As far as he knows, I’m over what they’ve done, over losing both the twins to him and am moving on with my life and keeping him out of it as much as possible, and he isn’t happy about it. He’s had the mindfuck channel set to charm lately which is particularly infuriating.

        So I have to keep all these plates spinning, keep my feelings pretty much to myself (yay for CN and people who totally understand) and not let on that it’s still eating me up because “I should be over it by now.” But the ripples of it never end and all I want is peace and security, and don’t know how to achieve those. Ex and I are both low income so even the comfort of a healthy divorce settlement didn’t pan out. I just want my kids to end up happy and well adjusted, to find a way to rebuild local friendships since ex was so fucking isolating and to know we’ll get by and not be up worrying about it every night. Yet another thing they’ve taken from us.

        • you are perfectly right, CakelessinKalamazoo, when you say “if I didn’t have to worry so much about how to take care of us, I think meh would arrive much faster.”
          This feeling of helplessness and injustice is what keeps us stuck in anger.
          I wish I could give you a helping hand, though I am an ocean apart.
          Although I can’t tell you what to do, I can tell you what helped me. It helped me to stop thinking of the injustice of it all. Yes, he did all those horrible things and now I had to clean up this mess. I found peace much faster when I started to think of what I need to do next. When I shifted my perspective, help found its way to me. Yes, it’s a bit esotherical and mystical, but it’s true.
          Thinking about the negative experience is eating up our energy, it is not healthy.

          I think you should tell people. Find a short way of saying what he did to you, so that it is not draining your energy each time you say it. And don’t be afraid of asking for help.

    • Cakeless, I didn’t know your whole story. I am sorry. I relate to your feelings, I want the pervert whore dead too, slow and painful. Also think my traitor is fucked up by FOO issues and she is just a hyena preying on us like she preyed on his first marriage. I share your feelings. Stay strong.

  • 2016 has been the year of #clutterbegone.
    Started with PreyingMantis. 😀
    Got rid of all that hideous log furniture in my living room. Told PreyingMantis I had to sell it to make bills. Of course it went to my brother’s cabin, LOL
    Got rid of all PreyingMantis’ clutter in the garage & basement. Turns out it drove my housemates nuts too, all those boxes getting in the way of anything THEY wanted to do. I was surprised at how much happier they all are. So the impact isn’t always solely on *you*.
    Got rid of most of my bedroom furniture, especially the mattress/headboard/frame/30+ years worth of linens/duvet covers/comforters etc. Sold it all on craigslist. Why? Because CONTAMINATION. Yep, PreyingMantis had several affair partners in that bed – MY bed, that I’d had even before we met. I’m sure that made the fucking around behind my back while I was recovering from cancer just that little bit more delicious.
    Put all my family pix back up (what’s left of my family) that I had to take down to make way for PreyingMantis’ cop decor. I sure miss those G~d Bless The Police plaques hung all over the living room walls! Put artwork back up that had been down for years. Makes the house seem more like a home, IMHO.
    I swear I didn’t set out to detangle the skein of fuckupedness, but I’ve been the unwilling recipient of intel from my remaining friends about who PreyingMantis was involved with and approximate timeframes. It turns out that *I* was unwittingly the OW, as PreyingMantis didn’t stop seeing the original GF until the move down here. Maybe. (And now is back to seeing her again.) Then there was my former employee’s best friend, my adopted daughter (she was mid-30s at the time, so she does not get a Get Out of Jail Free card here), the HR supervisor at PreyingMantis’ old job, a former housemate or two, a model at a biker rally for whom PreyingMantis was doing security, and of course the CNA at my now ex-father-in-law’s nursing home. And I would say such chumptastic things, like, “Although *your* behavior does not concern me, XXXX’s behavior does. I find it too clingy, too needy, and it raises red flags. I feel that she doesn’t respect our boundaries very well.” How stupidly chumpy of me, in retrospect… How the two of them must have been laughing their asses off at my naive, trusting ways.
    If there’s any silver lining to the three-ring shitshow that has been 2016 so far, it’s been that all the crap PreyingMantis left behind, I’ve documented and then donated to the local charity thrift store. It will make for some nice deductions on next year’s taxes.
    I’ll leave you with this one last nice motif – a personal koan, if you will:
    NoBoundariesWhore (one of PreyingMantis’ many affair partners) decides to replace our firepit with one of her choosing. Nothing’s wrong with mine, which was a gift from a friend, but it is replaced at her and PreyingMantis’ insistence. When it’s first lit, it damages the floor of the patio it’s on, and has to be moved off to a side patio of all concrete pavers, which is not as convenient as the original location. Fast forward 4 years, to the time when PreyingMantis finally moves out. In what can only be described as poetic justice, the firepit’s bottom rusts out so much that two of the legs break off. This weekend it is getting hauled off by a scrap metal dealer. I can’t wait ’til its nasty presence is no longer a reminder of that time in my life… where I always felt uneasy, but was told it was all in my head.
    #clutterbegone indeed!

  • They all seem to be cut from the same cloth, don’t they? That obsessive need to come out on top no matter what it takes. The massive amount of entitlement they have about everything in their lives regardless of the damage they inflict on every one around them. That taste for creating utter chaos so they can manipulate the situation. It boggles the mind.

    Cheater ex was the poster boy for sociopathy. (I call him cheater ex because there are no words evil enough to characterize him in the English language). He was beyond evil as far as I’m concerned. He did just about everything he could think of to destroy me. It didn’t work. I am one tough cookie. His last act of evil brought me to my knees though, and it has been a long climb up. As many of you know, his final onslaught was to kidnap and murder our fourteen year old son. Then cheater ex and his buddy killed themselves in a state across the country. He was hoping my child’s body would never be found, that I would have to live the rest of my life never knowing what happened to my boy. Thank heaven my son’s body was found, and I and my oldest son got to have a little bit of closure.

    I believe there are dark entities that walk this earth. They are innately evil, and poison whoever and whatever they come in contact with. The enjoy inflicting pain, creating chaos, and destroying others lives. They get off on the illusion of power their nefarious deeds provide.

    Sadly, they get away with it for a while…..for a while. I do believe in karma. I see it as a natural consequence of actions taken. If I choose to behave in an honorable manner, conducting myself with grace and treating others with respect, kindness and compassion? I will attract that into my life, those who will care about me and treat me well. (Once I have fixed my picker, of course!) However, if I choose to be a total shit to everyone who is unfortunate enough to cross my path, no one is going to stick around for the long run. Sociopaths wind up alone, and unloved. It is a natural consequence. Sooner or later they run out of people who are willing to be used, or once they themselves are vulnerable, they will be played by another sociopath. Either way, the eventually get their just deserts.

    And we, the chumps of the world? I’d like to think we wade through the shit and come out on the other side with a much healthier picker and a better knowledge of our true worth.

    Take THAT, narcissistic assholes of the world!

    • You have endured the worst Tessie, yet you come here to support others and share the wisdom gleaned from your horrifying and heartbreaking story. You are an extraordinary person. <3

      • Tessie, you are resilient. Despite all that hell you’ve been living, you came out as a human being. Sane. You get to speak the Truth. God is with you, something sacred is within you. Be there for your other son, you are the world to him. And he is lucky to have you.

    • Tessie, this tragedy is a reminder that chumps and their kids who are involved with these perverts are in genuine physical danger. You never know how far they can go. You are mighty for surviving this. I am especially grateful that you have the courage to share this here to warn others. I can’t imagine how hard this must be and thank you for making this contribution. Who knows how many lives your story has already saved.

  • I haven’t read all the comments yet. Jackass is one of this special type, a smirking, “you aren’t the boss of me” cheater. So this subject hits me in a deep place.

    Chumps who are dealing with this type–the ones who chose neighbors, in-laws, friends, and the kids’ soccer coach as APs; the ones who tell a lie that is not believable on its face while smirking at you–should just end it. These people are incapable of love and empathy. Nobody else in the world is real to them. There’s nothing to work with. And don’t worry about “losing” a jackass to an AP. The AP will be discarded too, eventually, after being used up and hollowed out and traumatized.

  • My ex was the opposite, and indulged in his own version of delusion. He went to great lengths to maintain exclusively separate lives that did not cross paths. When they finally collided (by his own making, by moving me to the city where the married OW lives) he began having panic attacks. Real ones complete with shaking and hyperventilating. He’s been with the (now divorced) OW for 3 years now and has never allowed her to meet our son. It’s not because he feels it would be inappropriate (he could give two shits about that), but because he gets off of stonewalling and maintaining separate lives. Definitely less creepy than scum like Weiner, but sick none he less.

  • I wish they would have put the car seat back up – really an insult to me to think I’m to stupid to notice.
    And OW loosing her sunglasses under the seat probably not very smart either.

  • The ex’s first affair partner (screwed her while I was pregnant) sent me a HUGE bouquet of flowers delivered to the hospital when I gave birth. She was his married co-worker and I knew her. I thought it was so lovely of her to do it. That was over 25 years ago. Very recently, I found out that she screwed a lot of married men in the office. The ex confessed (I would never have known) and told me he tried to stop her from getting married. They started the affair a week before her wedding and continued as soon as she got back from her honeymoon. It would have been great if he left me for her and married her. By the way, I confronted her and she was so afraid I would tell her husband, so she told him. Her husband threw her out right away. They were married for less than six months.

  • The OW did not come to my wedding. She did, however, come to my house as a guest after her divorce – “I feel SO SORRY” for ______.(fill in name) She’s all alone with no friends now” (cheater husband). This was true. No one liked her. I defended her and made her dinner. They Fucked. I had no idea. She left baby gifts at my door in the morning. He said “I don’t know why she’s doing that”. She HELD my new baby. When their affair was over almost 7 years, she remarried another guy and I went to her wedding. It was poorly attended. People in the pew behind us were making open fun of her (she was homely but rich and the husband refused to sign a pre nup.) I was enraged on her behalf and glared at them . She came down the aisle grinning from ear to ear. At me. At my husband. I still didn’t know what had happened. The next year I had cancer. She was pregnant. I was bald, yellow and bloated from chemo. I very nearly died. I was waiting in my husband’s office. It was after the last chemo. I was going to live. It was a miracle. She came in , looked at me and said” It’s so good to see you looking well. We thought we were going to lose you.” I said to my husband ” What was that about?’ She hadn’t been a part of our social life for years. She never even sent a card. I didn’t even get why we were invited to the wedding. He said “I don’t know”. ‘Sicko’ barely covers it . My husband now admits (yes, a shrink had to tell him) he was a narcissistic A hole .My life has not been the same since D day ( 2 years ago in gynes office with hpv)
    But yes, 30 years ago,she was there at my home. They didn’t fuck there; the neighbors would have seen. Besides, she lived less than ten minutes away and worked every day with my husband. Yes, of course, they traveled together. SO WHY DID SHE HAVE TO COME TO MY HOME ?? CL answers this. To feel superior; to trash the one woman who was kind to her. She was despised at work as a person who took credit for others work. She wanted another woman’s husband. OF COURSE my husband defended her so I BELIEVED HIM. She even came to patronize me when I was sick.”WE thought WE were going to lose you”. Apparently she was pissed that he didn’t leave me. If Id have known, Id have thrown him out. He decided to stay with me. I had NOTHING to do with the decision. Still pisses me off. I decide a lot of things now. I see my husband for who he is. We have had to start over. He says he learned to love and respect from me. I’m not impressed because I thought he at LEAST respected me then. He respects me now. I respect myself. It’s not easy. Chump Nation, listen to CL, especially if you are young. Although I have not left my husband, she has been a great source of comfort and advice, even all these years later.
    30 years later, the OW presents herself as a caring wife and mother. My life has been terrible trying to rebuild. She is still a hideous, self serving human being, now trying to pose as great mom &mother. I called her to let her know that I KNOW. It’s not a secret any more. I tell anyone I know, and we don’t live in a huge city. She’s horrified as she now has a daughter who thinks that her mommy is a wonderful feminist who would NEVER do anything to hurt another woman. Sometimes those secrets just come back to haunt you..
    FYI: IMO, it’s worse when the OW is ugly and/ or unlikable. It means that you ( the chump) are LESS THAN THAT. And that’s the point of it all, isn’t it ?

  • Vacationing at our beach house with the children and my parents over Christmas a few years ago, the EX suddenly informed me that he needed to fly home and see some patients. In all the years that we traveled to our beach house he had ALWAYS had a partner see his patients. My parents were with us and my father started to get sick. . ..he needed to see a doctor. The EX (a doctor) refused to help, quote “I don’t want to get involved”, took the car to the airport and flew home. Of course he could not be bothered to tell me any flight details or even what airport the car was left at. Meanwhile, I have 3 young children, my mom with cancer and my dad very ill. I found a doctor listed in the phone book (no internet access) and my dad drove himself and ended up having minor surgery. The EX returns a day before Christmas, in a fabulous mood, wearing these fleece golfing pjs that he “bought at the airport and are SO comfortable, he should have bought two pairs” and then gave me a ridiculously fancy necklace as a holiday gift. Bewildered I thanked him for the gift and he said, “I’m glad you like it but your behavior needs to improve”.

    Driving home he guarded his blackberry like it held state secrets and I realized I needed to get my hands on it. When I did, a few days later, it took a while to find the lists but I found them—he had flown home to have sex with his 17 year younger secretary in our bed. He had rented my favorite movie for them to watch, went to the farmer’s market where I shopped and bought their dinner, went to the jewelry store to buy 2 gifts and reminded himself to ‘change the sheets, turn the mattress over, open the windows, turn the water back on’ and so on ad nauseum.

    Fast forward 6 years later and they are still together, married, friendless, his children barely give him the time of day. They have their riches and Hawaii vacations and big cars and country clubs and they are welcome to it. I’ve remarried a wonderfully honest decent man (also a chump) who “get’s it” and we have a small house with happy kids and happy dogs. I no longer walk on egg shells, it’s Tuesday. But as far as his deceit in our bed, my favorite foods and movies and even jewerly-just a cowardly lazy narcissistic EX–and those fleece golfing pjs he was so enthralled with–I neatly and carefully cut them into little shreds and set them back on the shelf for him to find after I moved out.

  • I discovered that XH cheated on me when I saw that our new car seat had been damaged by what was obviously sex. I was supporting him and he was jobless, therefore unable to take OW to a motel. He also would not have taken her to our home – he had a good guy image to uphold in the neighborhood and being seen with OWhore wouldn’t help that. It didn’t prevent him from taking OWhore to his mother’s house for a rendezvous when his mother was confined to a nursing home for a fall. I found out about that when he told me that his sister-in-law complained to his mother that she saw our old truck at his mother’s house and that she stopped and knocked and that we didn’t answer her. He was angry with her and called her a liar and a troublemaker. I believe that he told me this because he thought that she or his mother might tell me and he wanted to tell me first so he could run a smear campaign on SIL. It worked – I believed him initially but after seeing the car seat I realized that he had been at his mother’s house with OWhore at the time. Post D-Day and prior to XH moving out, he gloated that his mother was going to buy him a car. He was moving in with his mother and not OWhore. He had hoped that his mother would buy him a car so he could romance OWhore but that didn’t happen. So he asked me to buy him a truck!! I refused but wondered why he wanted me to buy him a truck although he asked his mother for a car. Then I realized that we had traded in our 20-year-old pick-up truck for the new car, the one with the now-sex-damaged seat. The affair had obviously been going on when we still had the truck, and he had been fucking OWhore in the bed. I never got in the bed so if there was any evidence I would not have seen it or known about it. He wanted me to buy him a truck so he could recreate the experience with her. This is a man, who successfully pulled off ruining another new car seat 25 years ago by telling me that he vomited on it. I don’t know who the OW was then but I can describe OWhore, who knew he was with me when she took up with him. Imagine the witch from the Wizard of Oz with blonde hair and a red face instead of black hair and a green face and for her body, just imagine the witch’s broom. XH has denied all of the above.

  • Sicko/psycho.

    He got presents from the OW and kept them in the house.
    He slept with our neighbor downstairs. He visited her after the baby was born. I believe it was his.
    He slept with our tenant who lived upstairs who just got divorce.
    He brought a coworker to the hospital and to our home. He was cheating with her while I was pregnant. I couldn’t believe how big she was. Later I discovered she was pregnant.

  • Ugh!

    Your stories are HORRIBLE!

    I have my own, but honestly I’m too bored with it to write about it or even to try to remember the details. I only decided to chime in to let you know that it really does get better. I’m 5 1/2 years out from dday (something like that).

    What works is NC and letting the sick fucks have each other. Get the divorce, separate your stuff and your lives to the greatest degree possible. Set and maintain your boundaries, and never let them hurt you again. These freaks are lowest of the low, and the longer you go without their influence in your life, and without hearing their nonsense, the stronger you heal, and the more ridiculous they seem. It’ll be one day at a time.

    Of course, coming here and taking as long as you need (I’m still a regular this long out) and sharing your stories and your sympathy and support is the best therapy EVER. And next thing you know, you’re bored with it all–even with the cruelty they inflicted. It used to hurt because I used to care.

    Meh.

    • I really do think a lot of them get off on cheating on you. They LOVE that you think they’re faithful to you, when they’re not. They LOVE getting one over on you.

      So the best revenge is to cut them off like a hangnail and walk away.

  • GOD, we were with such LOSERS!

    It’s just shocking! No joke, the behaviors and ugliness that we endured is just flabbergasting!

    WOW

  • Mine has done truly awful things. One other thing I want to throw out there. Are yours also obsessed by money?
    Mine is a rich man, will not pay child maintenance etc and is stingy as hell. He was OK when we were married.
    Is this just part of the “discard”?

  • I see the word “humiliate” a couple of times on this page. What would you say to someone who trotted out Eleanor Roosevelt’s old nugget of:

    “No-one can humiliate you without your own consent”.

    • Love Eleanor Roosevelt, but I disagree with her on that quote. Many (most?) emotions are evolutionarily programmed into us. If someone treats us with contempt, humiliation is a natural and justifiable response. It takes a lot of zen and self-control to override it (which perhaps is what Eleanor had in mind).

      What these cheaters and APs did to us IS humiliating; can we rise above it? Sure, but it doesn’t excuse their cruelty nor our natural response to it.

      • Just pointing it out since this is the comeback that some people give when the word “humiliate” is used.

        Remember the 90s when someone appearing on Sally Jesse Raphael won multi-millions for having been humiliated on her show.

  • Doing YES! I too was fooled by a covert anti social, pathological narciccist. I too had a narcissistic father, and bipolar critical mother. My Dad was the one who told us he loved us and made us feel special, but he was always taking care of his needs while my mother went without. ChumpLady gave me the clairty to stop the RIC Wreckonciliation BS and lawyer up, but I truly only began to understand the abuse that I had been enduring 2 years out (after 38 together) when I started working with The Institute if Relational Harm Reduction (saferelationshipsmagizine.com) Gaslighter was Handsome, charming, sweet, fun, cooked dinner every night, went to all the events, mirrored my kindness, agreed with everything, professed his love…. Then did whomever he wanted very secretly. I had no idea, just blind trust. Connecting the dots, I realize now this must have gone on throughout the whole marriage. Strippers, hookers, friends, tenants, building inspector at his commercial development… He also cheated his business partners (5 year lawsuit ongoing) doesn’t pay local businesses, borrows $ from old friends and never pays it back. Didn’t even have a memorial service or bury his own mother, and he’s an only child! Keep remembering that it isn’t personal. These types don’t care about anyone but themselves. It is so much to digest when your life isnt what you thought it was for decades, but im finally starting to feel free and thinking more clearly by the day.

  • All these stories confirm my view that the APs are as evil as the cheaters. It’s all very nice to say the AP didn’t take vows to you, but look at the extreme humiliation they enjoy inflicting on you. They are just as bad. If you are poor and steal $20 of groceries you’re prosecuted, yet these people get away with the true crimes that destroy our society.

    • People who say “AP didn’t take vows – blah blah blah,” are either cheaters or soon-to-be-chumps. This is just lazy thinking and a great way to spot bad actors.

    • My X’s gradwhore not only invaded my marriage and my family, but invaded what should have been a private moment–when she issued her ultimatum, stayed in the room with Hannibal when he called to ask for a divorce. I hate her almost as much for her hubris with that act as I do for actually fucking my husband. However, karma hit her a week later when he dumped her to stay in the marriage (though had I known about the affair, I’d have been happy to turn him over to her).

  • I don’t know if my ex took delight in duping me or just considered it her right as an extension of her. Certainly used our bed and our house for the affair – amongst other things cause I was paying for the movies she was watching with him on our couch while I was deployed to Afghanistan.

    And when I came back I found the garage full of what turned out to be his furniture. She convinced me it was a friends who had posted and got me to lift, shift, and on sell it to friends and colleagues completely unaware and then used the money to pay back the AP. Twisted.

    • wat700 – I am so sorry that she did that to you, while you were away serving your country. Thank you for your service!

      • The human mind has an amazing capacity to rationalize horrific behavior. Our society has evolved into one where there are no standards. The lines between right and wrong don’t exist with many. If it feels good, it must be right and who cares about the bodies and broken lives left in their wake? Sound familiar? I don’t consider myself to be particularly religious but I do believe that at the end of the day, we have to make an accounting for how we have lived our lives. If I’ve learned anything from this experience of my husband bringing a woman into my bed, lying and cheating for God only knows how long, it is that I’d rather be alone than to be with such an immoral being. There is an old saying, if you role in the mud with pigs you will get dirty. I’ve also learned that with whatever life I have left on this earth, I want to ensure that I am a good person and live with standards knowing the clear lines of right and wrong. Maybe karma comes to these cheaters and their paramour in this life, maybe not but someday they will have to answer for the way they have lived their lives, the lies, the cheat and deception and the lives they have destroyed. I want to focus on the future, my life, my actions, who I am and what I want to be and not look back in the rear view mirror.

  • my business partner was searching for AK DR-475 several days ago and saw a web service that has 6,000,000 forms . If you are requiring AK DR-475 also , here’s a https://goo.gl/42eayn

  • New to the site and first time commenting but the sicko thing really struck a cord. I am 35 and was diagnosed with ovarian cancer at the beginning of the year. After I recovered from having a full hysterectomy I was suspicious of his relationship with one of his clients. He denied and denied but I couldn’t shake my feeling that something was going on so I put a recording device in his gym. Let’s just say I heard all I needed to. Them professing their love for each other, him talking trash about me, her giving him a blow job! So here’s the sicko part. He and this woman had managed to completely force this woman into mine and my children’s lives. She was married with children as well and after they started fucking they decided that our families should become best friends. I from the beginning made it clear I really wasn’t fond of this woman and she wasn’t really the type of person I cared to be friends with (she was a total lush, fake DD BOOBS to help her with her insecurities, bragged about wearing super tight clothes) but said I would be cordial since she was a client. But still they ended up getting our daughters on the same soccer team, our sons on the same lacrosse team, plan family dinners, arrange for her to drive my kids around. She brought me food while I recovered from surgery, came into my home and hugged me while I was paralyzed in pain, she would ask me to hang out (I never did) and if I wanted to be running partners(I kindly said no) she would drive my kids places and have them over during my recovery, the list goes on and on. These people are sick fucks! Once I caught him with the recording the flood gates opened he had also been fucking her best friend, another client and a co-worker and then a month later it all came out he had been cheating on me since day one and had continued the entire 13 years we were together 30+ woman in total. Oh the stories I could tell this shit is fucking surreal.

    PS: Chump Lady I’m in the DC area and would love to attend any speaking events or groups if you ever have any!

    • Sick sick sick. And not just directed at you – at your children as well. Putting his entire family at risk. What a monster. If there is any doubt at all ? – have a health crisis. When I discovered his e-mails to multiple women, there was no doubt in my mind that I was in the way. Die already. My health crisis was taking too long, and required much too much of him. In print. These men are dangerous. It is critical to get away from them. And once you are away, you realize you were a player in a psychological thriller he enjoyed and controlled. And you realize other people are participants. You are the only player operating blind. Movie stuff. I hope you are well out of it and your children are safe. And I hope your family and friends hate his guts. This is a black and white break-up. No shades of gray.

  • This, this this! “Of course, you’re blindfolded, with both hands tied behind your back, but they’re happy to stand in the ring and sucker punch you and declare themselves the “winner.””

    I don’t know if STBX was a sociopath, though I told him I thought he might be on his way out the door. Red flag about 2 years into our relationship that should have had me running was a dropped line about how a good friend once told him something like he “could be really evil if he wanted to be.”

    He certainly was a good liar, though I think back on some of them and there were some tells, like nervous laughter in the telling of some of them, lack of eye contact etc.

    Sicko things that I’m aware of (I suspect there are more) are sex in my house – he said the spare room, but the condoms (purchased by me) were next to our bed and I somehow don’t see a dash in to grab these and go to the next room. And then taking me out to meet her at a gig and night dancing a few weeks later.

    I’m more convinced OW is a sociopath. She initiated the gig night with a message to colleagues saying ‘partners welcome’. She ordered tequila shots for us all and when STBX came back from the washroom as they were arriving, he asked who picked tequila. Not, who ordered shots. Who picked tequila. The night they had sex in my space formerly known as home, they opened a bottle of tequila. When I got home from visiting family and asked STBX about the opened bottle, he said he opened it on his own because we were out of beer. On our night out she chose tequila shots. There was intent there.

    One of the smoking gun emails I found (after he left on Dday with little explanation except that his leaving was ‘partly’ due to his feelings for coworker but he most certainly wasn’t already fucking her), she wrote about how it was such a coincidence bumping into a mutual friend of ours while they were bunking off work apartment hunting together and that ‘the universe might send oneonefourone into our path one of these days..’ She was reveling in it. Asked STBX if she takes any responsibility for what she did to her partner of 10 years and to me and he said ‘no, no, it’s not her fault…’. She was telling STBX she was in a loveless relationship that was over 3 years ago. Spoke to OW’s STBX and his experience was different – they were certainly not ‘platonic’ as she was telling my STBX, but I’m sure if made a good story to get him to swoop in and ‘rescue’ her narcissistic ass.

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