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Dear Chump Lady, Tell those wives to maintain their dignity

Dear Chump Lady,

I was the OW. Still friends with him. She doesn’t like it. She sends emails to all my family and friends about me. She contacted my employer to get me fired. She contacted immigration to get me deported. She went to the police as apparently me contacting him is the same as me stalking her (???). She has no luck obviously. She filed numerous complaints against his therapist. You should tell desperate wives like this to maintain their dignity. She’s making such a fool of herself. She writes superlong facebook posts (complaints) about her hubby but still stays with him and claims the marriage is ‘happy’. This wife is so codependent and after 3 years still dancing so hard. Doesn’t she see she should maintain her dignity? Because right now she has none. No wonder he doesn’t respect her. Please give some advice to these poor, poor women who think they have such a happy marriage, but need to bombard innocent 3rd parties with emails and phonecalls and threats to keep their man. I mean if she needs to beg MY parents to tell me to leave him alone she has a problem. If her hubby loved her he would leave me alone all by himself don’t you think. Mind baffling this behaviour…


Dear Elle,

Why are you “friends” with someone who dumped you for his wife?

Sounds like you’re doing the pick me dance too.

If you don’t think you did anything wrong having an affair with a married guy, then I can’t imagine why your employer or your parents knowing this fact should bother you.

Consider that all your “knowledge” of the wife comes from your cheating friend. And your hypervigiliance monitoring her social media (see “pick me dance” above). Shouldn’t you maintain your dignity and get a life?

Mind baffling this behavior…

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  • I always regret running these OW letters… but like a moth to a flame, sometimes I can’t resist.

    Please don’t make Tempest knock heads today. These posts tend to get trolled.

    I run these things to demystify affair partners — yes, they really are THAT stupid. Leave the turd and let them “win.”

    • Thank you for sending–it IS good to remember they really are THAT dumb. BOTH cheating partners are really that dumb. I once said to my STBX that the OW’s husband and I should get together for revenge sex (I didn’t), and he laughed and said, “He doesn’t like sex.” I could not believe that he actually believed everything she told him about her husband! They’re so caught up in telling their own lies to others and justifying their behavior to themselves yet they STILL believe the words of their affair partners who are clearly lying! More proof to me that they live in a reality of their own making, one not shared by people around them.

      • Oh yeah, I got that too. Assholio said the OW’s husband was a crazy psycho and they hadn’t had sex in three years. Once I talked to him, he seemed quite normal and they were having sex regularly. Hmmm….

        • Funny thing is… my husband didn’t lie when he told the OW we hadn’t had sex in two years. What he conveniently left out was that it was because I found YET ANOTHER personal ad online… he had used a picture from our WEDDING DAY… and even though the MC told him to get a blood test as a step toward earning back my trust, Mr. Sparkles refused – said a blood test would be an admission of guilt and he “didn’t do anything” besides post the ad. I refused to risk my health for Mr. Sparkles and so began the drought. Sad thing is… I didn’t cheat that whole time… I was spackling.

          That’s the things with NPDs… their “truth” is a manipulation of itty bitty facts with BIG FAT LIES.

      • In my case Schmoopie’s then husband admitted to me himself that he had cheated on her before so I know he’s a jerk too. Even so, he probably isn’t quite as bad as STBXs interpretation of the things Schmoopie says about him.

      • Ugh. They actually talked about trying to get me to ‘hook up’ with OW’s husband so that he would leave her alone – GROSS!

        • They’re disgusting, Chumpette. If the dumb bitch OW wants to be “left alone” by her husband she needs to get a divorce, like normal people do.

    • The moment I started reading this I thought CL Fodder. But you are being awfully nice today! ; ) A sweet rebuttal of just the perfect length.

        • You’re dissing cancer still today… the kind of cancer that walks on two legs, sleeps with married people, and calls themselves an “innocent 3rd party”.

          • I read it as Kook considered all the people the legal wife contacted as “innocent third parties”. Guess she didn’t like the wife warning others that Kook has a serious character problem.

    • I loved your simple and succinct response.
      Actually this letter just demonstrates how the pick me dance applies to both sides of the coin and how we are all being played. Thank you for posting.

    • Pushing to the front of the queue because Elle seems intent on pushing her sociopathic message to a large proportion of posters (below). It is a gorgeous spring day where I am, and I am feeling lazy (read: not up to moderating what looks like could become ugly); hence a suggestion:

      Now that we’ve seen into the ugly mind of the OW, I suggest we stop responding to Elle, and start posting our most empowering moments; the moment you knew you had had enough.

      • Moment I knew I had enough was before I confronted him directly. He had just returned from a fuckfest with the LT MOW. The dude is so disordered he could ,and still does to my kids:( , seamlessly lie to my face without a twitch. Gads. And gross because I then dug around a bit and found their xhamster porn and scripture shares.

          • Great idea Tempest,
            The moment I knew I had had enough, and which gave me much needed jubilation after 13 months of pick me dancing, was when I taped the traitor lying to the whore about steps he was taking to leave me. He claimed he had arranged to meet with my bank manager but the manager had to cancel due to a family emergency. Confirmed by same bank manager that he never talked to him and never arranged a meeting, and could not have met with him to discuss my affairs anyway because he wasn’t his bank manager… I knew then that I was glad she was getting exactly what she deserves. Don’t you just love the lies liars tell each other?

          • Tempest that’s the name of a porn website, not bestiality. (Ask me how I know … and I wish I didn’t!)

      • I knew I had enough on Dday itself. He was waxing on and on about how he had a lot to think about, a lot of choices to make. I interrupted him and said I had choices to make, too. I had to say that like three or four times before he heard me. The look on his face when it sunk in that I too could make decisions independent of him about our marriage, well – you would think I just backhanded him. The absolute shock, dare I say…..betrayal? That I would also be considering divorce.

        I realized then and there I didn’t want to be a background player in my own marriage anymore while he and his ap discovered their happiness. Or more realistically, I didn’t want to be Plan B in case he didn’t love ap as much as he thought he did. I don’t think he has ever forgiven me for that. For not dancing.

        Fuck him

        • “I realized then and there I didn’t want to be a background player in my own marriage anymore while he and his ap discovered their happiness.”


          Exactly the realization I can to as well, Calmafterstorm!

        • “Background player…,” my god, this is precisely how I felt in the relationship Calmasfterstorm. I was his lowest priority ever. I will no longer play a supporting role in the movie that’s all about him.

        • This was exactly my moment. I finally asked myself what I wanted. It wasn’t him. Someone once said on CL that they are welcome to each other. She knows he cheats on his wife and he knows how she feels about marriage. Good luck with that. If she thinks she won anything, she’s a complete moron. They both are.

        • Not wanting to be a “background player” in your own marriage- I like that! I don’t want to be that either. Goodbye Mr. cheater…porn dude!

      • Thank you Tempest, the woman (or whatever she is…) is making me sick…

        I knew I had enough when, instead of “just” lying to me, he lied to our son in order to talk to his Crazy Bitch : I met a lawyer the next day.
        He did certainly lie before that specific moment to our children, but I knew the truth, and had proof then…

      • Tempest–While I enjoy reading all the comments here on CL I especially love your’s and a couple others. You are always so wise. I am glad you sorted this out before it was too late. Yes I read an Elle comment this morning and immediately started fuming but I didn’t post anything. I have figured out they are like fat third graders and love the negative attention! I wish the blog had a way to sort to certain commenters such as yourself. Have you thought of starting your own blog? You have a lot of wisdom to share.

      • When I saw what it was doing to my kids, I knew I had to leave. But now I find myself in another quandary related to yesterday’s post (couldn’t join in because of work). As many of you may have gathered from my posts, my X is old and suffers form a medical condition that is worsening over time. My kids were not old enough to make the necessary decisions about his care at the time of our split, and a trust was set up with marital funds to pay for his care. This trust greatly benefits my kids; I have a separate trust. But someone still needs to mange that care and that person is me. X’s family would have robbed him (and my kids) blind. It really isn’t that much work and I do not have to interact with X at all.

        My kids are getting older, but most of them are still in school and trying to establish themselves in their careers. They love their dad, but are well aware of his shortcomings as a human being. I am gently trying to transfer my role to them, but they are very resistant. These are often not easy decisions and ultimately, a decision will have to be made to terminate his treatment. Again, I think I will know when the time has come, and I would always involve the kids in that decision. How hard to I push my kids to take over or should I just let it be? The youngest is a freshman in college and the oldest is just out of graduate school. Losing their dad is going to be tough enough without the guilt that they didn’t “do enough.” I have long ago made my peace with the death of my marriage but, as a caring human being, I am struggling to force my kids into a role that I know will end in their father’s death.

        • Hi Violet, I suggest making a separate post about this in the General Forum. More people will see and respond.

            • Top right corner, click on Forums and register (most of the best advice can be found under the Private: General forum).

              As someone at a university, I would advise against making your children take on any significant role in X’s care (financial or health related) during their semesters. You are kind to have taken this task on yourself. (And if you get to be the one that makes the “turn off the machines” decision, there is a certain justice in that, no?)

      • Actually, I really needed to see CL’s response and realize that the OW also performs the pickme dance. You’re right, CL is just feeding kibbles to the OW, but it was enlightening in the sense that I needed another kick in the butt, i.e., the OW is just as messed up, if not more, than I ‘was’. Thank CL and God that I’m definitely on the road to meh.

      • Tempest… I guess my biggest “ah – ah” moment was the night ex mocked me while I was desperately crying… we were on the phone cause he did not want to see me… we had the wedding on “maybe” cause one day he was deeply in love with me… the other he was not in love any more. we were together since more than a decade… He did not want to talk with me every day cause he needed some “solo time” (aka, the ow’s vagina). One evening he mocked me… he mocked my pain. I was crying and he was saying stuff like “look at her… the little girl is crying… gne gne gne… why can’t just be happy for me taking my time?”. Something inside me changed. A couple of days after that evening I went no contact. And I remain in silence for a week or ten days. Wedding was cancelled. He did not call me either. When we talked again the day after I cancelled everything. He was mad at me. He told me he did not miss me, he told me he loved someone else. I did not cry. I dumped him. I dumped him in that moment, by phone, without breaking a single tear. He was the one crying… telling me bullshit like “please be happy” and shit like these. I blocked him. Two years and an half passed since that day. He tried to contact me a couple of times and lmaooo… the OW started stalking me (talking of bat shit crazy). But I never reply, never checked, never even consider him again. That night, the night he mocked and made fun of my pain, I decided he was dead. He has been dead for me ever since.

        • Emm@–thanks, your post (and the OW’s letter to Tracy) very clearly show that cheaters have utter contempt for us. There is no way past that; why would anyone want to stay with a person who feels contempt toward them? Precisely why there is NO way to make a healthy marriage work after infidelity.

        • @emm@,

          I’m new here, hi. I had an almost exact experience as well. He mocked my pain too, and at that moment, I saw the real monster. Brought the OW, excuse me, “good friend” to our home a few weeks after he broke up with me. Proceeded to fuck around with her in our living room, which I spent what little money I had to make a home. While I still lived there!!! I was in the bedroom having a breakdown. Couldn’t stop crying. Dizzy, numb, like my world exploded. I was in denial there was someone else, he said there wasn’t, until my eyes saw otherwise. In my home!!! Unreal.

          He comes in the bedroom, in his boxers and says “Stop fucking crying and get over it already. Do you want me to kick you out? Get over it.” I died. Guess my sobs weren’t an attractive ambience for fucking soundtrack. It was my home too, but I only earned minimum wage, couldn’t afford to live on my own, in a city we just moved to. He knew what button to push. I had no one else and no where to go. He stood there, dead eyed, half naked, no remorse, no basic human decentcy, my pain was nothing. Just what he wanted. He slammed the door and went back to consoling, fucking, whatever they were doing with the OW. In a blanket fort in the living room. WTF? Yeah, they made a blanket fort.

          Now it’s so clear was an liar he was, the horrible person. It took a long time to get there after that betrayal.

          Been reading about a month. Thank you CL and CN. Healed more the past few weeks reading this blog than any self help book the past 5 years.

          • HNFG-
            I think I successfully imagined myself in your shoes because after reading your post, I feel like someone punched me in the gut. I am so sorry. That is just. Awful.
            It’s also a clear example of NPD. They are concerned only with themselves and their immediate SELF gratification.
            They can make you feel like you’re their world one day, and discard you like trash the next.
            My husband first turned himself off to me emotionally, causing a lot of tension. What I didn’t realize at the time was that he was wearing me down into a reactionary ball of anger, only to use that anger against me to leave me physically. It is a sick mind fuck that’ll leave one dancing in peril in the face of insanity.
            The moment he left our home, I became someone else. I realized that my feelings about myself were derived from what cheater was telling me. And without him there to tell me who I was, I became empty chaos.
            It took me awhile to relearn my foundation and build upon it. In fact, I’m still trying to find some crucial pieces to my own puzzle.
            Understand that they feed from our pain. They need us to care, because they need to feel important. But if we deny them this source, their well will quickly run dry. We will see self pity, we will see rage. We will see someone we never knew existed in our lives. We will finally see them for who they really are.
            When we can see them for who they are and not for who we created in our heads, then we are finally moving forward.
            Stay strong, HNFG and trust that he sucks.

          • emma and Goddess,

            Hugs to both of you. Narcissists love, love, love a captive audience. If they think you rely upon them for any kind of support, they will drop their mask and bring their rotten abusive interior out to play. It’s all part of seeing just how much the chump will put up with. They are bullies to the core. The only way forward is out. You will feel better, I promise.

          • I keep commenting on this post today. I think it is because I watched a YouTube about a couple who took in five children whose mother died. She was too young. This family had to find bed space and money for food but they did it. The mother was a neighbor who needed a family to keep her kids overnight while she had tests done. She was diagnosed with cancer. The family that took the kids were “adopted” by the community and given a car that could hold ten people and groceries for a year. Strangers helping strangers. It made me realize that elephants and gorillas have more empathy than your ex. When I was a little girl I stood on the shore watching dolphins trying to save another that had been attacked by a shark. They pushed and encouraged it toward the shore. Those dolphins cared more than your ex. Think about what he will miss… in the happiness of others, sadness when another is sad. Those animals have more empathy than your ex. His life is one long, empty existence.

            • So so true!!! Animals do love.

              And yes, amazing what the kindness of strangers can do. The uplifting part of my story was that my coworkers, who I didn’t really know, saw something was really wrong with me a few days later, told them what happened, and I was welcome to stay with them. I moved my stuff and cats the next day. A kindness I’ll never forget, and I try to pay forward with gratitude and positive vibes.

          • Good lord what an a-hole. Truly messed up, both of them. That is just sadistic. I feel for you.

        • “Something inside me changed.”

          Yes!!!!! That moment of clarity, the emotional turning point, the dawning realization that they are devoid of any compassion, devotion or real feelings of love. Awakening to the fact that they will throw us under the bus for their own kicks or convenience.

          So glad that you are free of him.

      • I wouldn’t call the moment I realized I’d had enough particularly empowering, but it was indeed a powerful moment of clarity. According my my ex, the OW was encouraging him to fight for our marriage, because she was reportedly devistated that her (by then) ex-husband didn’t “fight” for her. The absolute absurdity of expecting a spouse you just devastated to fight for you made me laugh out loud, while my ex sat there solemnly looking at me. (And that was even before I knew JC and how hard he DID fight before he put up some real boundaries and walked away.)

        I realized how completely devoid of logic and reason those two were, and that trying to use honesty and reason with either of them was like throwing water on a grease fire. I knew there was no spackling over that giant load of bullshit. From that moment on, I stopped listening to the drivel coming out of my ex’s mouth, started paying attention to what he did, stopped dancing, and started to get royally pissed off. That was my turning point, and it puy an end to my unicorn fantasy. Thank god for the idiocy of affair partners.

        • OW didn’t actually want your husband to fight for his marriage, that is a load of horseshit. She was trying to appear decent when in reality she was nothing more than a skank or your ex was trying to make her look decent. Whatever, can’t believe a word they say. These defects say and do anything to look somewhat normal.

          • That’s affair partner 101. Make yourself look like a champion of marriage. How many chumps have been told that schtick “OW was counseling me on how to improve our marriage.”

            Bringing me back to the cheater. It’s all their fault. No one forced them to betray your marriage issues, to them ever! I think it’s all one big fishing expedition, looking for an AP who will bite.

          • Apparently MC was Schmoopie’s idea. She sure was not happy however when he told her he had to stop seeing her while we were in MC and then she did her best to make sure it didn’t succeed.

      • Interestingly, “I knew I had enough” had nothing to do with the multiple OW (none knew about the others) specifically. Rather, it was when I realized that he is a horrible human being — no interest in having integrity; a depleted man proud of his depleted character and who depletes everyone around him — a parasite of massive proportions.

        Until that moment, I spackled mightily because I had projected my own values onto the world (not just him). I genuinely assumed most people wanted to be good humans. In my “I knew I had enough” moment I had a cataclysmic paradigm shift.

        On that day, my soul hurt that I had subjected myself and my kids to someone who emulated the worst of humanity. That was the moment I said “never again.”

        • Free Vixen we must have had the same OW. I found out about my husband’s affair, filed for divorce and tossed him out. He went crying to his OW pissed that I didn’t fight for him. That, “OH GOD!’ I thought he wasn’t worth it. Only thing the man was ever right about. He wasn’t worth it. The OW bitches to me about me not fighting for my marriage. That I hurt poor Hubby’s feelings. I took his Kibble dish away. Now she has to work harder to make sure he gets the Kibbles he needs. You better start backing up those Gravy Train trucks honey. You got a life of heavy lifting going to be going on.

          I’m halfway thinking she was looking forward to battling it out with me. Instead I shoved him out the door and said, “He’s all yours”.

          • You hit the nail on the head. They want & need a “battle”. Most defects thrive on chaos and drama.

            • I texted OW#2 and told her what I knew, that she could have him and good luck with that. She texted back there had been nothing between them. I told her I’d read all their texts after downloading his phone with a recovery stick.

              Her next text? Did I want to get get together and compare notes on him?

              Uh. No?

        • +1 “was when I realized that he is a horrible human being — no interest in having integrity; a depleted man proud of his depleted character and who depletes everyone around him — a parasite of massive proportions.”

          A 65 yr old f*cking a 25 yr old, crying it’s not fair when I say post-nup where I get everything with my name on it but he storms out when I say “not fair” when you continue to call, text, lunch. and do whatever with girl-child piece of trash. And lie to our kids. And bring piece of trash into our house.

          Last words I said after 35 yrs of marriage: Don’t ever come back. And he hasn’t. And it is good.

          • Geez – He’s terrible — and what he put you through is awful. I’m so glad you got away from him.

            Sending best wishes your way for a beautiful, disorder-free future.

        • When he told me it was “his fault”, “my fault”, and “OW fault”; I knew there was nothing left to fight for. No way was it MY fault!

          • NoMoreEggShells, Mine blamed the OW too, if she had not posted so many photos, including an after sex breakfast in bed on the bed linens I bought, I probably could have got over it. I learned this term here, fuckwit.

        • You nailed it, JesssMom! Once you realize they are truly horrible, beyond redemption, it’s a done deal…it was like that for me, too.

        • Hmmmm the moment I had enough. So many ..
          1. When he was written up at his job for sexual harassment?
          2. When he was a 34 year old man studying in a dorm room with other nursing students?
          3. When my son was 3 and he didn’t come home because he stayed at his “parents” after drinking too much?
          4. When I found out about the OW and he never once said I’ll do anything to make this marriage work?
          5. When my daughter said, “why are you so mean to mommy?
          6. Really though… it was when I gave him an ultimatum… get help for your issues…anger, drinking, cheating, etc. (after trying to make it work for 6 months after the cheating)… I gave him one week to come up with a plan on how he was going to work on himself and things…. after 1 week I asked what the plan was ..
          Him: ” well, I don’t think I have much to work on and what I do need to work on, I can manage on my own”
          Me: ” Really? Ok then…. I’m done”
          16 years of marriage … done ..
          Done filling in the cracks, making excuses for you and your behaviors, done giving this marriage everything I’ve got

          Oh and by the way….. I changed my name back to my maiden name today!! I am freakin giddy.
          3 days before he marries the pregnant mistress.
          Happy Wedding Day Asshole

      • My empowering “moment” was a week away with my family (and without my cheating wife).

        During that week at the beach, I played with my nieces and nephews, talked with my sisters, and had the comfort of loved ones around me. I started to accept that I could get divorced…that it was actually possible, and even probable.

        In other words, I started letting go and accepting what I could control and what I coundn’t.

        My “final straw” came three weeks later, when my wife slipped up (again) in revealing her continued cheating. But I don’t think the “final straw” was empowering–instead, it was that shift in mindset that came with time away.

      • When I decided that I was done! One Moment that stands out, and it was really just a simple thing. It was during the time that we were separated but he had been hoovering and hoovering until I gave in, and decided to give him another chance. I even withdrew the divorce.

        So One night after dinner, we went for ice cream in our small beautiful downtown, and from the moment we walked out the car to the ice cream shop, back to his place. Not for one moment, did he walk beside me – always ahead of me (before dday – I would tell him to stop walking so fast, or I would have to try to catch up to him) This day, I did neither, just let him walk ahead of me.

        And in that moment I knew I was done, he was not by my side, never would be. He was not my true partner. The following weekend, he asked me to go someplace with him and I did not reply.

        • Mighty Again –

          In all of the posts, books, and articles I’ve read about cheating fucktards, I’ve never seen it mentioned that they walk ahead of their wives. That was 100% my experience!!! It was really the only fight we had, since I thought he was otherwise so great. Thank you for validating that this was your experience as well.

          • The walking ahead thing!! It’s a THING!?! It is so disrespectful. Dick would walk up ahead and talk, facing forward, and expect me to hear and answer… Nope. Unfortunately, my (adult) DS did that to me at our last dinner and I was so furious I actually flipped him off. Sorry, not sorry… I don’t tolerate that shit from anyone anymore.

      • When I knew I was done took more than a “moment” because I had 25 years invested, 4 children, real estate, a professional relationship as colleagues and co-authors, friends, community. . . all aspects of my richly earned life that no whore could ever even fathom. But I’m speaking to you sister and brother chumps here — I don’t waste my breath on whores and their ilk,

        I knew I was “done” when the following happened after Dday #1 (I will forevermore refer to as FreedomDay or “FDay”):

        I realized that X could only have sex if he used viagra (he was 46) and even then his dick was small and limp — it felt like a disgusting wet noodle and made me sick;
        X had terrible breath and I would gag if he tried to kiss me;
        I worked hard at my job and have limitless opportunities to attain wealth and accolades if I want to;
        My children love and respect me for how I conduct myself, which is sanely and calmly;
        I can look myself in the eye in the mirror and hold my head high — I’m graceful and a lady, respectable, admirable and courageous in the face of adversity;
        I have nothing to feel guilty about and I did nothing wrong to “cause” this calamity;
        I have true friends who see right through abusive behavior;
        I understand Narcissism and Cluster B traits and can identify that gaslighting and blameshifting is abuse;
        I decided my life is precious to me and worth living the best I can;
        I can control who I have in my life and if I am mistreated in ANY way, I can choose to cut those out of my life;
        I can hire people to help me: kick ass lawyers, contractors, accountants, to name a few;
        I have more interests than I have time to pursue but on my short list are climbing glacier topped volcanos in my backyard, paddleboarding, traveling, writing, learning new skills to expand my career opportunities;
        As soon as I decided I was done with X’s shit, I had no less than 4 amazing single, available men asking me out on dates — they were all three FAR more accomplished, fitter, better looking, and mentally healthy than X will ever be;
        The first time I had sex with my new partner after 25 years with X — and it was divine! Physically, he was so much finer (fitter, toned, happy, no ED problems, much larger than X, a much better, more attentive lover) and emotionally he satisfied me so much more than X ever did, even before FDay;
        When the divorce trial was over and the Judge gave me every single thing I wanted and then 20% more and said that he wished he could give me more!
        The timer rang: DONE DONE DONE DONE

        • Isn’t it the sweetest of revenges? The other day I calculated how much money the cheating narcissist has had to give me as alimony during the 9 years we’ve been divorced (after 29 years together, three children) and I couldn’t stop laughing, just imagining his face every month when he has to write a check. The most expensive f..ks in the world!!!!

      • I knew it was time to go when he threatened to kidnap and hide my children (then almost-3, almost-2 and 9 months). I called the cops and left with two garbage bags full of our belongings. I was done.

      • My empowering moment: in our 3rd wreakconcilation MC session- Ex bemoaned the fact that I was a bore and needed a hobby. He and counselor looked at me and I said “okayI’m buying a plane and taking flying lessons” ExReeky’s jaw dropped while counselor grinned ear to ear. I pulled out my phone, googled and dialed the metro airport. I scheduled to meet that afternoon. As I was leaving I looked at them both and said “like I’d take up knitting or something “boring” (yes -with air quotes)

        i learned to fly figuratively and literally. I’ve moved on to mehville.

        Then there’s Elle, trolls, and cheaters. They will always be licking the cum slime and crap off of any hole or dick and proclaim how happy and awesome they are. They’re just oh so super special when it comes to hopes, dreams, life goals and whatnot #cheatersunderachieversandproudofit #cheatersSeeinghowlowtheycango

        • Thank you indychump for this image:

          “They will always be licking the cum slime and crap off of any hole or dick and proclaim how happy and awesome they are. They’re just oh so super special when it comes to hopes, dreams, life goals and whatnot #cheatersunderachieversandproudofit #cheatersSeeinghowlowtheycango”

          because it is making me laugh all of the residual sadness away. Hahahaha.

      • My moment of ENOUGH: It was a hot day in August, we were at a playground near my parents’ house so I could hand off our then 1 year old daughter to him. I had moved home 4 months prior after finding out about his year and a half relationship with “the only woman who really understood” him (a relationship that took place, conveniently, while I was preoccupied with my first real job after law school, being pregnant, and then new motherhood). I was still pick me dancing, hard, even though I had moved out of our home. I thought if only I gave him more space, gave him time to miss me, gave him the time to think about that he wanted, like he asked… he would see the light, right?!?
        Back to the playground. We were there because he was too big of a pussy to come directly to my parents’ house because he couldn’t face my parents (who had been extraordinarily welcoming and kind to him during our 5 year relationship). We were going to start couples therapy the following day, which he kept calling “group therapy,” in order to help me better understand “how he could do this.” He wanted to get together and make a game plan for how “group therapy” would go. I was just happy he was showing interest in our relationship.
        I don’t know what he said to make it click, but something finally did. I realized he was going to use the “group therapist” to break up with me. I realized he was still talking to the OW. I hadn’t asked about it in a month, but the last time I did he had said they weren’t speaking. I asked to see his text messages and he said no, they were none of my business anymore. I asked if he told her he loved her, and he didn’t answer. I asked if he was still fucking her, and he didn’t answer. I called him every name I could think of. I clarified that this wasn’t working not because we weren’t “compatible,” as he liked to say, but because he was choosing an affair over his family. I told him when our daughter asked and was old enough to know, I would tell her exactly what her father had done to break our family apart, and that even given the choice he had chosen other women over his wife and family. I was not going to lie for him, not ever again. He started crying. Not for me, not for our daughter, but for what our daughter would think of him. He was crying for himself, real big self pity tears, because, truth and consequences. And that is when I knew I was done. I found out later that afternoon that he had had the OW over to our house to play house with him, my daughter, and our dog. While I thought we were trying to reconcile. Who knows how many times. And he said I wouldn’t understand, because I “couldn’t possibly understand how lonely and isolated” he had been since I left. Double fucking done.

      • An empowering moment came right after I found out about the affair he started 14 months prior… DDay #1, I had to fly out of town for a work trip the next day. While on the phone, it became clear that he was trying to lie his way to wreckonciliation…

        In that moment, an absolutely clear thought struck me like a lightening bolt… “You fucker, you abused my trust and my love, we have a kid in elementary school to raise together, but your preferred problem solving strategy is to insult my intelligence by trying to lie your way out of this??? Hell to the NO!”

        In that moment, I understood that my marriage had beed dead for at least 14 months… In fact, I would never know when my then-husband killed our marriage by becoming an adulterer… There was nothing left for me to do but to get a divorce decree as our marriage death certificate…

        Cue to NC and two weeks later I was moved out to a new apartment and with copies of all our paperwork and documents. Not surprisingly his cluster B traits became crystal clear during the divorce process and once the mask fell off, well many fellow chumps know the endless shit sandwich buffet that comes with having bred with a high conflict X. The divorce was finalized after 16 months of continued drama… He is now reduced to an email address at the other end of our parental software… The pain is indescribable, but it is finite… And thanks to the generous support and witty humor of this amazing group, I can now laugh at his antics and avoid being baited…

        Thank you CL & CN, you (grey) rock!!

    • Bravos! Bravos!
      I liked especially the shortness of the answer.
      These specimens have no freaking brain! Let alone dignity and self respect!
      I applaud that wife for de-masking the impostor. I don’t believe the wife begged anyone. Projection much?
      If there is a beggar, that must be the cheater begging the wife to take his sorry ass back and the OW begging for the cheater’s “friendship”.
      Oh, and let’s not forget why the wife would bother. Probably because there are children involved??? Heroic lady I would say!

      • If Elle is like my ex’s skank, she’ll win the pickme dance. And as sad as it is for the children, to have their father revealed for his ugliness is important. I tried to keep my marriage together for the sake of our children. Alas, I couldn’t compete with his ‘only friend’. Now he gets his skank and one can only guess how their relationship is filled ‘with trust’ and that they’ll never cheat on each other. Yeah, right! He did me the biggest favor when he picked her over me. Life is great now!

    • Dear Skanky Hoe (Elle),
      Sounds like you got what you deserved. Sometimes people get what they deserve. Poetic justice? Karma? Curses from God? How ever you got your “just desserts” – I’m glad you did.

    • Pick me! I’m better than your a-hole wife. Keep trying Elle- maybe someday the cheater will pick you. Then….you gained a cheater- all for yourself.

    • Question for Elle – Why are you banging another woman’s husband? No self respect? No respect for others? Desperate? Not attractive enough to find a single man? What is the problem dear?

    • Message received.

      Cray-cray knows no logic, boundaries, self respect or compassion.

      What a bitch.

    • The OW may be dumb, but she is also a selfish bitch with no morals (same as husband). I agree that wife needs to maintain her dignity, but that is hard to do, I have lost mine several times. Our dignity is about all we have left. Husband doesn’t care and neither does the OW about how the wife acts. They think it’s funny because they have made us so crazy, but of course it’s not their fault. My H thinks everything that has happened (even his affair) is all my fault and he has no blame. According to H, he isn’t the one that caused the circumstances for me to go crazy and neither did his wonderful little “sweetie”. I despise her as much as I do H.

    • I hear in the poly community sometimes: “I don’t care if the other person cheating on their spouse. I don’t know or owe the spouse anything and the responsibility of the relationship is not mine.”

      My response to this: “I can’t think of a more efficient way to invite drama and possible danger into your life. Spouses KILL affair partners and the offending spouse. NOT WORTH IT.” These people must be truly crazy (forget lacking empathy). The above letter demonstrates exactly this.

      I’m a poly woman who conducts her relationships openly with the knowledge and consent of all parties involved. If I’m considering dating a married man, you bet your ass I insist on speaking to the wife first. I may not owe her anything, but I certainly don’t owe her deceit and trauma.

    • Elle,
      (Isn’t there a SNL skit with your name in it?!)

      You did what you wanted to & now his wife is.
      Live with it, just like she does. Everyday.

      One day she will realize he’s creating drama in her life, but it could be way more peaceful & fun without him.

      Then she will hopefully take all his cash & you can have ALL of him.

      That’s the way these things turn out. Get yourself a therapist & a life that creates good in the world instead of bad. The wife doesn’t deserve any of this.

    • My hope is that the distraught wife finds the sanity and courage to dump the scum bag cheater and take most of the family’s resources out the door with her. Leaving the cheater broke = Elle and the cheater will have to split a Happy Meal at McDonald’s and call it a “date.”

      Sorry Elle….but the financial resources in the marriage…belong to the wife- not you.

    • I thought it would be interesting to give the UBT a whirl (hopefully it will stand as a testament to my CL and CN education on understanding these freaks):

      I was the OW. Still friends with him.
      >>Aren’t I amazingly accomplished? I banged a married man AND stayed friends with him. The friendship thing? You see, he dumped me for his wife. It might look like she won, but your eyes are lying to you. Stalking and annoying his wife proves my centrality! Maybe if I keep kicking that dead horse he’ll want me again!

      She doesn’t like it.
      >>Mmmmm … there’s nothing like persistently hurting another person who has never done anything to me! Cake!

      She sends emails to all my family and friends about me. She contacted my employer to get me fired. She contacted immigration to get me deported. She went to the police as apparently me contacting him is the same as me stalking her (???).
      >>I prefer logical fallacies to universal laws (such as cause and effect). The fact that he and I destroyed her world and continue to taunt her with it? No. That has nothing to do with her reaction.

      She has no luck obviously.
      >>Do I sound nice? I’m trying to cover up the fact that “na na na boo boo” keeps running through my head.

      She filed numerous complaints against his therapist.
      >>The poor sad sausage was getting help for himself — he is the center of the universe, after all — and she has to take that from him too! It’s her fault he spoke those vows and that he is stuck with the horrible responsibilities that come with being an adult. He can’t make big boy decisions.Of course he needs a therapist for that!

      You should tell desperate wives like this to maintain their dignity.
      >>Definitions matter. Fighting to keep your family intact, fighting for your spouse to keep his promises, and fighting for justice — that’s just pathetic. Be like me! I fight for men who broke life promises to other people! That is “dignity.”

      She’s making such a fool of herself.
      >>Obviously, only an fool would expect a person to keep a promise stated aloud in a well planned ceremony and bound by law. Be smart like me. I screwed a married man who refused to leave his wife for me!

      She writes superlong facebook posts (complaints) about her hubby but still stays with him and claims the marriage is ‘happy’.
      >>But really, I’m not stalking her.

      This wife is so codependent and after 3 years still dancing so hard. Doesn’t she see she should maintain her dignity? Because right now she has none.
      >>And boy howdy, I understand dignity. You can tell because I keep saying it. I’ll reiterate: dignity is getting naked in a married man’s car next to a kid’s car seat.

      No wonder he doesn’t respect her.
      >>Like he respects me! Being someone’s dirty little secret is R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

      Please give some advice to these poor, poor women who think they have such a happy marriage, but need to bombard innocent 3rd parties with emails and phonecalls and threats to keep their man.
      >>Yep – that’s me. Innocent. I have no agency whatsoever. I had no control over my legs dangling over a front seat in his tiny car. Legs dangle. Breasts expose. Sex happens. I had no choice but to collude with a guy who swore vows to someone else. And she knows this! She knows I have zero ability to make decisions like a grown ass woman. So how dare she hold me accountable!?

      I mean if she needs to beg MY parents to tell me to leave him alone she has a problem. If her hubby loved her he would leave me alone all by himself don’t you think.
      >>Ignore the fact that her husband refuses to sleep with me anymore. Ignore the fact that I keep stalking her. None of that is important. The only thing important here is that I’m still winning!! And I am in the mood to write a public blog just to gloat (I’m dignified like that).

  • Totally off topic but yesterday was finally divorce day as I call it. Just wanted to thank CL and CN for getting me through it in one piece. Chapter closed and time to move on to bigger and better.

        • Awesome! Congrats on reaching Tuesday, and showing the rest of us how it’s done. May your “getting a life” be full of peace and joy.

        • Congratulations on your Tuesday! I’m on the subway headed to yet another divorce mediation session right now and your post made me smile. Reminded me to also look forward rather than just being angry at the present. Thanks Marisa and best wishes as you move forward to better days!!

    • Way to go @Marisa !!!!!
      Awesome way to start the day with another chump gaining their freedom. They will keep me smiling all day.

    • Yay Marisa. I hope you are at or approaching meh because you have a wonderful new life to be lived.

        • @elle is a totally flawed disordered sack. Why would she stay friends with a man who won’t leave his wife and is ok to let her suffer? Is he really worth all that? Is the sex they had (have) as coconspiritirs against his wife that delicous? I doubt it. She loves the drama and the centrality. Such power.

          Where’s Your dignity in all that @elle?

          • Elle appears to be a bitter clinger. Hoping and wishing the cheater will “pick her.” Making a horse’s ass of yourself clinging onto someone else’s husband isn’t exactly “dignified.”

        • Oh, elle. If you had any respect, you wouldn’t take what didn’t belong to you. It’s a little late to talk about taking the high road.

    • Congratulations, Marisa. The official divorce can be a hard hurdle to cross, and its finality a little heartbreaking, but it is a liberating milestone.

    • Oh Happy Day! Congrats Marisa on setting yourself free. It’s wonderfully peaceful and joyful on the other side. May your old life be a distant memory and your new life bring you the happiness you deserve.

    • Congratulations on permanently quitting the Pick Me Dance. Give yourself permission to take a breath, you just won a war. Regroup, refortify, and rock on!

    • Congrats! If you’re not there yet, one day you’ll be like, “Hmm, what do I want to do today?” That day for me was when I realized I had my life back.

    • Congratulations Marisa! My divorce was final last week Wednesday. I was unfortunately curled up in fetal position for 3 days after and still trying to shake off the reality of my failed marriage… hope to be able to dust myself off soon and push through the fear of starting over, again! Hope you are doing better!

      • Krazy…I’t not YOUR failed marriage. It’s the cheater’s failed marriage. You didn’t fail- the cheater did.

    • Congratulations!

      I’m getting so close myself. Mediation is finished. We just need to finalize the paperwork, sign, and then wait for the judge to sign.

      One of my friends has already promised to take me out to celebrate. 🙂

    • Freedom is taking your life back and living it on your terms. Congratulations–I can’t wait for the day that I can join that club!

  • Yup my OW created a fake Fb profile of another person to try to gain information on me (this was after I left the pencil dick after DD2). Yet apparently to her I was the one that needed to suck it up and move on and I was pathetic. What’s pathetic is that she’s still the side piece as he just got another cake to fill my shoes. She’ll never reach cake status. Poor little kibbles.

    • it’s called projection. She is trying to place her shame and insecurities on to you, rather than owning them herself. Makes her feel better. For a very short while….

  • Ha, hahahaha! I can’t believe someone would write this to you. No shame! Lol. Maintain you dignity! I knew an OW like this… lol

  • Dear Chumplady,

    I am friends with this man precisely because it pisses her off so much, and it’s funny. I’m not monitoring her FB (blocked of course) but he tells me all about it, and we laugh about it together.

    • Come on Elle get real with yourself. You’re mad because you never reached cake status. You’re just kibbles, ya know the cheapest kind that you can find at Dollar General, the leftover crap. You’re still friends bc you’re not even good enough to be made cake status by this POS and you’re STILL waiting in the wings. You’ll always be the side piece luv.

    • And imagine what he tells her about you. The serial cheater I divorced said he’d dump her too. However, she’s not bright enough to realize he’s cheating on her. You are a number.Next, always a next.

      • This is so true, my ex was always dogging the OW to me. Always, constantly. It’s what they do, they dog everyone behind their backs anytime it gets them something. They have zero loyalty. ZERO.

    • And in our spare time we like to pull the wings off butterflies… Lady, you are being played and you don’t even realize it. If he says things about her to you, one can imagine what he saying to her about you! “Honey, she is a crazy psycho, who made the first move and I was just too weak to say no. Now, she won’t quit stalking me and I just don’t know how to make it stop. She is threatening to destroy my career and I’m just staying in contact to try and make sure she doesn’t do anything crazy.” Any who would trash talk his wife to his side piece of ass has absolutely no problem making you out to be a complete looney tune. Which by the way, you are. If he is sooooo into you, it seems strange he is still with his…wife. Now, run along and seek validation from someone cares. Not us and obviously not your “boyfriend.”

      • Lol to “we like to pull the wings off butterflies” in our spare time.

        I mean, look, obviously the cheating spouse gets the bulk of the blame for the unethical, immoral actions he chose. The OW is just vapid, as amply demonstrated above, available, and similarly free of ethics, morals, or anything resembling good sense.

        But what’s most telling about how Elle and her damaged goods of a man get their kicks in their free time is how totally centered on the wife it all is. Empty folks need enemies, I guess. Once the wife moves along, and she will, whatever shall they do? Left with nothing but each other–two cheaters that nobody much cares about, and whose mutual lack of substance has been fully revealed–they are going to be hard pressed to figure out what, exactly, serves as the foundation of their supposedly great relationship. It isn’t trust, honesty, respect, faithfulness or any of the healthy things on that continuum. Mutual fondness for lies and cheating sure doesn’t seem like much to work with, but best of luck with that approach. It’s sure to be grand.

        • she will never, ever leave. TRUE LOVE. she forgives him over and over. She loves him. Look how desperate she is trying to keep him… asking strangers for help, when all she should need to do is ask her hubby to stop.

          • You are quite obsessed with the wife. She takes up a huge amount of your mental energy. Consider therapy so that you can move toward having a life of your own.

            • I would, but she keeps sending me long emails, and harasses my friends and family.. I would stay away, but then she does something stupid.

              • Your actions are entirely within your control. Block her and ignore. If you feel powerless to do that, then I stand by my original recommendation: get therapy, and focus on having a life of your own, so that you can leave this obsession behind, and stop trying to live vicariously through the woman who is actually married and seems to have both the man and the life you so desperately want.

              • I just can’t imagine living on the periphery of someone else’s life and being so obsessed over it.

                Ladies, for the millionth time. Men are human beings just like us. They are to be interacted with based on the ratio that their words match their actions. Loved or not loved based on that.

                You have two women here fighting over a man who merits no more interest than a pancaked turtle on a rural highway. The difference is, one of them was pledged fidelity and care.

                I’m always surprised at the OWs reaction to not winning the game show blooper surprise. She states how little she cares (yet cares enough to inflict pain on a family, to write to CL, to make several comments of pithiness so forced I can hear the keyboard banging), she states her motivation is concern for ‘The Dignity of Wimmin’ but has burned every asset in the dignity bank. It’s a bit perplexing.

                What she perceives the wife deserves is none of her business, frankly.

                When I was a director of operations the one thing I guess I failed at was faking any sympathy at all, or a shred of give a fuck about petty squabbles between packs of young women who came to work to gossip and get into feuds rather than…work.

                A similar thing is happening here, but the sad fact is Elle is much older, and this does usually happen that the women who spend all their work day focused on NOT WORK tend to be fired for that, leave voluntarily or run bitterly in place, never being promoted.

                I’m saying life has rules, Elle. And if I were your life coach or supervisor I’d say, ‘Yeah, this fighting over a Turd is silly. But according to the rules of life, it’s really her Turd. All this effort you’re placing is in the wrong direction. Go find your own Turd. Because Turds tend to find each other. And pay attention at work. And lift other people up instead of living on nothing but cake crumbs and churning hatred.”

                But that’s just me, over here, successful career, makin’ nearly twice what my Old Turd makes, remodeling my house I own, vacationing in Jamaica, living Turd Free.

                If the OW wants to give me life advice living with her two fatherless teenagers and her Adultery Toddler in her shitty entry level job she almost lost fucking her married coworker at lunch, in her shitty apartment she almost gets evicted from on the regular, she can try.

                While I can compare lives with anyone in this scenario (sometimes I do) the bottom line is nobody won. You win the least, though. You feel empty, don’t you? No matter how you spin it, sociopaths always feel empty.

              • @ Luziana – You win the internet today. I am heterosexual, and not into polyamory, but I would still like to propose marriage to you and several other Chumps on this thread right now 🙂

                Thank you for this.

              • Ladies and Gentlemen, here’s an important lesson: Never engage crazy, ever. This is some obvious histrionic behavior. It’s like your local nutjob who wants to fight random people while screaming about how he’s friends with Kayne – just nuts. Let them go, you can’t win.

          • The only person who looks “desperate” here, honey, is you! You keep trying to tell us what she should be doing. Maybe you should look in the mirror and lecture yourself. You are the pathetic loser, who has stuck around for 3 years hoping the dude will leave his wife. Good luck with that one, sweetheart.

          • Poor Elle. Poor, poor deluded Elle.

            Always the bridesmaid Elle.

            Funny thing about advice from bridesmaids, though, Elle. No one takes you seriously. No one.

            Because, you know, you’re a whore. That word “bridesmaid” was a euphemism, Elle.

            You’re just a convenient place to stick a penis, kind of like a needy jockstrap.

            • I would bet the farm Elle is an unattractive, dumpy type who can’t get a man of her own. So….she latched on to a desperate cheater who would bang anything with hair and a hole.

          • Elle darling….Selfish, immature men like her husband do not stop…just because their wives ask them to. Make no mistake dear….he will cheat on your sorry ass too. That’s how it works.

            • Definitely! My STBXH cheated on his side sluts all the time. He said they were expendable. So was I but just figure that what he thinks of the wife is probably more than he thinks of the OW.
              I only accept one level of cheating on me. OW gets to enjoy her own betrayal by him.

          • I had an “Elle” in my relationship and Narc the Cat did tell me she was “bat shit crazy” he did tell me he thought she would get him fired etc. She went to his work, she drove by our house frequently, she stalked my social media and I knew every odd friend request was another fake profile of hers. I’d block them and the names on the blocked list would sometimes change to variations of her name. She stalked me even after we moved 3,000 miles away and for years after we moved. She was totally obsessed with my Narc and with me.

            No life of her own. She lived for his crumbs. He was the best thing she had ever known (that trash bag) and was going to hang on to any scraps he would toss her. If SHE only knew the things he said about Her her blood would run cold. He laughed at her and got off on her never giving up on him!

            • Lol, the only reason I ever talked about the ow was to see how bad ex would dog the bitch out. It was great, if they think the cheater tells your secrets while keeping those of the ow may I just day bahahaha, not.

      • Exactly! You never know what they tell everyone else, the OW, family, the vet, some guy at Starbucks. Imagine management.

    • Your Mom must be so proud of you! Really, you are friends with him because it pisses HIS wife off? And you laugh it off together? What does that say about YOUR dignity? What does that say about YOUR character? You are laughing at the pain of someone else?

      How sad that there really are human beings like you, that enjoy hurting others. Enjoy taking part in destroying a family!

      If you had any dignity, you would step away completely. The wife is so co-dependent? What do you know about the wife (other than what you hear from the POS)?? Remember he is a Liar, and a Cheater. So you trust what this POS says to you?

      Remember this, “what goes around comes around”

      • someone who is still in pain after 3 years, deserves it. she chooses this pain. This is the marriage she wants. Otherwise, why is she still there? So she better deal with him and his OW, because he has permission to do whatever he wants.

            • Again, you are quite obsessed with her, even dwelling on the details of her sexual interactions with her husband, which seems a rather expected and ordinary aspect of marriage. Consider therapy to help you focus on establishing a full life of your own.

              • You are clearly very troubled. You know or think you know too many details of someone else’s sex life, and you dwell on them quite endlessly. Married people have sex. Stop being shocked by or jealous of that and focus on creating a satisfying life of your own.

            • Elle, trust that he is telling his wife that you are a psycho bunny boiler that will not leave him alone. Just like he is telling you that his wife will put up with and do anything to keep him and won’t let him go. The BJ’s he tells you she is now giving him is to make you up the sex game, hoping you’ll provide (even more?)freaky sex. Yeah maybe his wife should dump him and not put up with the BS but she is his wife and maybe they have children. You are nothing more than a plaything, a joke and you mean zero to him but yet, you won’t let go either. Hanging on to a married man for dear life? I’d say you are the true pathetic loser in this scenario.

            • Have to admit, I did that. I mean the bj. I also happily admit that I bit him. Hard.

              Surprise, honey!

              Didn’t do anything to his balls because he doesn’t have a pair.

        • Just shut up already would you elle? You made your point. Its the wifes decision not yours. And your point is yes you are a mean vindictive troll!

        • I agree. She should ditch the jerk and pass all of that pain onto you. That would be the best revenge she could get on both of you.

          Unfortunately she is too loving for that. She is trying to save her husband from himself. Alas, it won’t work. He likes being a jerk and that will never change.

        • You are a calculated mean girl! She deserves it? You still did not answer my question, what do you know about his wife, other that what he tells you?

          How can you sleep at night? Oh I know, you can because you have no soul!
          If he loves you so so much, why hasn’t he left his wife for you? Oh I know, because you are simply a side piece. A SKANK!

            • You know you only control YOU, not her not him. So why can’t YOU stay away completely? Let them figure it out. At least you would know that if he then comes back to you, it’s because he wants to be with you (at least for the moment, and not because he respects you, or loves you, but because you are there – AVAILABLE, with legs wide open)

              Why can’t you do that? Because you like the centrality, you like the attention. Now talk to us again about Dignity?

            • Because he is telling her you will not leave him alone and you won’t leave him alone. Even if they split up do you really think he is going to take up with you? No. He’ll find another woman that would never degrade herself by hooking up with a married man.

            • I dont think you’re in a position to look down on the wife. Elle, you’re allowing this, and I get a sense you are encouraging her behavior by engaging with her. He’s made it clear to you that you aren’t important to him, but damn if you sure arent important to her. Maybe you can wrestle your way back into his life by continuing this drama with her? You’re still somewhere in the background of his life? He dumped you and showed you just how disposable you are to him. If you engage in this drama by driving the wife crazy are you hoping he will run to you to escape her “craziness?” You’ll be the obvious and sane choice by comparison?

              You won’t get his attention this way. She’s not important to him, so your status by way of “being wife’s mortal enemy” does not earn you more attention. You will not become important to him, neither of you are important to him as it stands now. She may be unimportant, but she’s also not disposable for whatever reason. You can disengage and keep some of your reputation intact, regain your peace and invest time in more worthy pursuits…or you can continue to engage with this woman, who has every right to be furious with you and keep on with more of the same. It’s not unheard of for a spouse to kill and/or terrorize an affair partner and if I were you I would get out of this woman’s crosshairs.

              Just friendly advice.

              • Oh yes, terrorizing the OW… what a therapeutic activity it can be for some. Cathartic. Enjoyable even. Keep pushing his Wife’s buttons. Maybe we’ll get to read about you in some click bait article after you have pushed her just an inch too far.

        • Elle, the Man U want lies! He lies to you and her. He’s wishy washy. That’s why she’s still there after 3 years. He tells you what she wants to hear, he tells you how she gives him a BJ after crying on the floor, but has he filled for divorce? No he goes to her, caudles her, gives her hope. You are so focused on winning this man, you refuse to see who he really is. A fraud! Just like all OW, you project your misery on the wife. The truth is the man you fight for gets all the fun. Even if you end up with him, you will be boring to him, because he needs the drama and excitement of having 2 woman wanting him. Pleasing him. You will never be enough, obviously you aren’t now.

          • Yes, this. The man elle wants is an abuser. He has engineered this entire situation and elle is just as deluded at his wife. His wife is acting just like he wants her to act and Elle gets to be “in” with him now but JUST WAIT, Elle’s time in the dog house will come. Everyone has an expiration date with a narcissist.

        • Elle, I’m gonna take a lil stab here-you are the definition of a malignant narcissist. Alongside this obsession with the WIFE, you’ve probably got other addictions..alcoholism? Gambling? Pathological lying? Overspending to fill the huge void in your life because all your relationships fail due to your personality disorder?
          Poor Elle (that’s your real name, right?)
          You have no idea what you’re in for..maybe not right now, but soon enough you’re gonna learn that what you send out comes back-but not the husband, he’s not coming back dear.
          Have fun!

      • I used to know someone like this who reveled in wreaking havoc in people’s lives because she couldn’t get hers together so she figured she’d bring others down to her level. She said all sorts of stuff about others but it was her who was truly co-dependent in that she found her worth in how she negatively affected people.

        So blind and twisted these people and genuinely evil.

        • bingo. drama is a great way to to say “don’t look at me! Look over there instead and I can forget about how fucked up I am!” ridiculing someone else makes her sound so elevated and more evolved than the rest of us idiots who keep promises we make.

          Wonder who’ll be changing Elle’s bedpan when the time comes….

    • It is good to run Elle’s letter because it is a teachable moment on so many levels.

      Elle, you wrote:

      “I am friends with this man precisely because it pisses her off so much, and it’s funny.”

      You are stating, with pride, that you take delight in causing someone pain. By clinical definition, you are a sadist. In common speak, you are rotten to the core.

      This is not a joke. In your mind, she is just the idiot wife. A person whose agony fills you with glee.

      Your “friend” took marriage vows. Vows he broke. They merged their lives, their money, their families. Your sick machinations and childish voyeurism make you a trespasser of the lowest order.

      You are like a dirty peeping Tom, feverishly jacking off while you peer in the window of a family home with small children.

      You are an obscenity. You are an affront to everything decent, honest and kind.

      Elle, I have terrible news for you. As much as this ass clown and you make fun of the wife, you cannot fathom the things he says about you. My X said about his OW: I don’t care if a pack of escaped convicts run a train on her.
      He meant it.

      Your ramblings about dignity are hilarious. Do you think he respects YOU? The person who provides him with free sex…even whores charge for their services. What do you get? Gossiping and venting about his wife? Can you fight through the haze of your small brain and understand how lost you are?

      Life has a way of coming around and kicking us in the teeth, when we are as disordered as you. You are bragging that you are “friends” with a man who is a pathological liar, an adulterer, and a two faced human garbage can.

      Elle- you two belong together. I wish you many years together. Hold tight and see if you can win the “prize.”

      Chump Nation- this is the soul of the OW. A petty, sadistic clown who is nibbling kibble crumbs from the ass crack of a lying sack of shit . And then crowing about her supposed superiority….!!! She has firmly established what we already know- aside from being amoral, these OW are about as smart as a box of hair.

      • “Chump Nation- this is the soul of the OW. A petty, sadistic clown who is nibbling kibble crumbs from the ass crack of a lying sack of shit . And then crowing about her supposed superiority….!!! She has firmly established what we already know- aside from being amoral, these OW are about as smart as a box of hair.” MIC DROP!! That is some fantastic imagery there! Excellent job A.B.T. Gertrude would be so proud. 😉

      • This is a great response, Alice.

        I don’t think the writer’s age is significant at all. The emotional maturity of people like this is stunted. The last LT MOW, the one that was my DDay, was a 50 yr old diseased idiot whose writing style was like that of a middle schooler, at best. The lack of emotional maturity is the headline for this disordered bunch.

      • Very well put; however, Elle the skank will never be able to grasp what you say because of her small brain and how sordid she is. She feels entitled. She feels she’s better than the wife. She’s truly sick in the head. She will always defend herself. She’s probably possessed. My ex’s skank is a Social Worker and a Family Counselor of all things. She’s educated (Masters degree), but so, so stupid. The wife really needs to let the skank have the husband and get her sanity back. But that’s very, very hard. I was there too hoping to save my marriage. After I found out about the skank, I even went to her hoping that if I pleaded with her to get out of my husband’s life, that she would immediately end all contact with my husband. I projected my honor and integrity on a person that had absolutely no morals. I was thinking that, ‘After all, if she truly loved him (as I did), she would want what was good for him.’ And what was good for him was to be an honorable husband and father. But the skank was not like me. She had no decency (which was why she committed adultery in the first place.) She just KNEW that what she and my husband had was ‘True Love’, so she stayed in the background waiting and waiting till he turned his attentions back to her. Eventually my ‘turd’ once again went back to his ‘Elle’ and when I found out, I was done. She won the turd! What ‘Elle’ cannot get through her head (because she truly is stupid) is that she thinks this kind of relationship is what she deserves. She believes she is a worthless human being. She’s indignant that anyone thinks that she is stupid and has no self esteem. But she cannot see that by waiting in the wings for this turd, she’s nothing but a turd too. He has no dignity and no self respect. She has no dignity and self respect. The two turds really do deserve each other. I hope someday the wife realizes this.

    • You so need to get a life.Don’t you have something better to do with your time?
      Pathetic and malicious.

    • Wife: “I just stay married to him and post about how wonderful our marriage is to piss off Elle. Mission accomplished.”

      • Lol. She’s definitely obsessed with the wife. They both seem to be. So healthy. Must be true love.

      • It also says a lot about Elle that she’s obsessed with reading these comments.

        If she were truly confident about herself and her status with this man, our opinions would be of zero interest to her.

        She pretends that her obsession with the wife and with our comments are “funny”, but they eat away at her self-confidence, whether or not she chooses to see it.

    • Wow, Elle, are you proud of helping to cause another human being such misery?

      Also, if it’s so “funny” why do you want it to stop?

      This is just another example of a cheater saying “What I did isn’t the problem.. It’s the chump’s reaction that’s the problem”

      So no points for originality, Elle.

      I find that mean, manipulative people are often shockingly susceptible to being manipulated themselves. I wonder who is manipulating who in this scenario.

      • Oh, forgot to mention —

        I shudder to imagine what would make you feel like a “guilty” third party. I’m not even going to speculate because I don’t want to give someone so inhuman any ideas.

    • Is pissing her off more important than the wellbeing of your “friend?” If you care about this man at all, gtfo. You’re a shitty friend.

        • Are you using him because you are pissed he didn’t pick you after 3yrs? Did you tell your new John about this relationship? Have you taken time to get a full STD panel. I can assure you 100% that you were not he only fuckbuddy. And most cheating idiots never use condoms.

          • oh I do use condoms. Always, I’m not stupid. I know of 2 other fuckbuddies and his wife had a nervous breakdown over it, but decided true love is more important than affairs. So she is still there, loving him. The funny thing is, he doesn’t use condoms with the other fuckbuddies and his wife… that makes the wife the stupid one who should get tested.

            • You can get HPV, herpes, hep c via oral. So yes, you are stupid to fuck and suck a cheater who has been having unprotected sex with other people.

        • And aren’t you one of America’s finest? As stated above: STFU.

          Tempest-shut this subhuman down. Maintain our dignity.

    • Joke’s on Elle, anyway, folks. This is the best she thinks life can be. That means it’s the best her life will ever be. That is some seriously sad shit right there.

      I pity her as her life goes forward and this chaos and spite is the only true source of anything resembling joy that she ever knows.

    • So why isn’t he with you? Or are you just ‘a new c t and a new pair of t s’ to him (actual quote).

      How sad that you can’t see that you are being played as well.

      You should like yourself more.

      This woman has done nothing to you, why are you pushing your Mummy and Daddy issues on to her?

    • Wait, your friends with him just to piss her off? I bet she’s flattered you are so obsessed with her, although, it’s quite creepy.

      You need therapy. Maybe once you get fixed, you can find someone to actually give a shit about you.

    • Elle,
      It’s a shame to hear you continue to kick the betrayed spouse while she’s down. Bravo. You sound precious. You also reveal your low self worth and ignorance in what you say, and the manner in which you say it. And for future reference-

      noun, plural dig·ni·ties.
      1. Bearing, conduct, or speech indicative of self-respect or appreciation of the formality or gravity of an occasion or situation.
      2. nobility or elevation of character; worthiness

    • How sad is your life that you view shitting on people less fortunate than yourself as a form of entertainment? Did sixth grade not end for you or something?

  • I think the UBT blew up with all the BS in this short letter.

    1)Why are you “friends” still with him? Friends do not screw around on each other.
    2)Did you really think that the affair will be “your dirty little secret?” If you are afraid of being exposed, DON’T DO IT! This goes for both parties.
    3)What would you do if you were married to this POS? They have a history, probably a family, a mortgage. More to lose than you do.
    4)Dance OW! Dance! Are you tired of the “pick me” dance? You did that your whole relationship and are still doing it.
    5)If you really think you will have a healthy relationship, you started it with secrets and lies with a known cheater. You will be a chump soon.
    6)Get off your high horse, (insert expletive or derogatory name here)

    My eyes are stuck in the back of my head they rolled so much.

  • Yes, there is so much dignity in sleeping with married men and expecting no consequences. Cuz we know OW have so much pride that they have to lurk in the shadows for three years.

    What these OW don’t know is that they are a number and he has many other ‘friends’. Overall the investment is a poor one for all involved.

    It took me a long time to understand the OW was a better match after all. She too lacked character and the ability to self reflect. If the OW could only see they aren’t special or getting a prize.

    While passing the torch was difficult, in the end the OW will always be the one who lacked self respect and dignity. He traded so far down it’s laughable.

  • This OW is a poor poor victimized soul. Terrorized by the wife, but she waits and waits and waits for her night in shining armor to leave his wife. And writes to CL, hoping the wife sees the letter and leaves the two of them to ride off into the sunset together. She’s just so innocent! NOT

  • Elle…..
    Why are still friends with cheater pants? And you must definitely have issues if you are laughing with him at his wife’s misery. You need to get some dignity!! And work on that character of yours!!

      • ….getting temperance advice from a junkie…

        ….asking Pol Pot for gardening tips…

        …getting the UPS guy to do open heart surgery on your feet

      • Momar, love your quotes!! CL, such a great post!! I love your brevity because you are so right, it doesn’t even deserve a lengthy response. I feel sorry for her, she really does need help, but only she can decide she needs it. Thank you for all of your support.

  • Dear Writer,
    Show me your “dignity” and I’ll show ya mine. There’s a reason why “Sloppy Seconds” are called “Sloppy.” Unlike your’s, mine isn’t circling the drain of a Superfund Clean Up site.

  • Living, good point. She’s playing the victim! I’d love to see her face when she figures out he will lose half his assets.

    I’d also love to do a three year update, ‘Where are they now’, on the cheaters and OW once we kicked them to the curb.

  • This kind of stuff still amazes me. I’m divorced 6 years and the OW (now his wife) still stalks me and demeans me to my children. Still trying to tear the family apart. It’s more than stupid, it’s insane. These kind of people used to get locked up. Can’t we go back to that?

    • It is because she continues to be threatened by you. The crazy OW in my situation continued to stalk my kids and I after I left X and after he dumped her for someone else! She was obsessed with us because she had nothing of value within herself. It literally took years and the threat of jail to get her to stop. In the meantime, she lost her family, home, and job. OW do not end up well, as this LW is learning. Three years and counting, years that she could have spent with a genuine man, who won’t treat her like the side fuck she is. Talk about lack of self esteem; who hangs out for three years hoping their married lover will leave his wife? In my opinion, she is far more pathetic than her fuck buddy’s wife could ever be. LW is the proverbial kid with her nose pressed to the window of the candy store, wishing for that which she can never have. Maybe that is why she lurks at a site where she is clearly not welcome. Pick me, pick me. PICK ME!

      • Not every OW/OM wants the cheater to leave his/her family, but the common thread is that they do all lack the inner peace of a person who is confident of his/her own intrinsic value in the world.

        Anyone whose behaviors got stuck at 4th grade bully is clearly not well-developed mentally. You can’t reason with the kind of extreme immaturity that causes a grown adult to pursue hateful behavior because harming other people seems funny. That is a special kind of broken that logic and reason can’t fix.

        • Amisfree, Like!!!! So true! When OW married Fucktard, my one thought was how well they deserve one another!

        • I noticed a similar sort of – I’ll call it a developmental stalling – in my Fuckwit and the Whore. He was 43 and she was like 27, but they had this whole “it’s us against the world” thing happening like they were teenagers in some kind of poorly written CW young adult soap opera. The talked and texted like teenagers. They spent ridiculous amounts of intense time together. He cried when he quit his job and left her behind (don’t worry – he got her a job at his new place… the Fuckwit will not be denied his kibbles). I could not compete with the level of involvement he seemed to require because I could not figure out what the hell there was to be so overwrought and dramatic about.

          It was super weird… it was literally like living with teenage girl, right down to the crying and “you just don’t understand.” So yes – I guess they deserve each other because they apparently needed a level of TV soap opera drama that I just could not provide.

      • One of the OW stalked me for years after I left them to it.They had true love for a few weeks until she found out about all of the others. Still came after me.5 years later, she assaulted me resulting in a broken nose, cheekbone and eye socket(she sneaked up on me one night with a couple of mates)
        She got an 18 month good behaviour bond. My dog was poisoned soon after; many vet bills later he was then killed in a road accident after ” someone” let him out of my backyard.
        I left the country. As far as I know she broke the good behaviour bond and went to jail.
        I don’t know which is worse- the stalker OW or the ones who just don’t care that they’ve devastated someone

  • Why????
    I’ve found that my ex’s affair partner is just as dysfunctional and narsissistic as he is. Like speaks to like.
    I don’t know why we address these fools. As for the OW in the letter: if he wasn’t a dick he wouldn’t be “friends” with you. If you weren’t pathetic you wouldn’t of climbed into bed with somebody’s husband .
    As for the other woman in my scenario??
    I’m crazy? I’m pathetic? I “got dumped”??? Yes I did, the second I took vows with that idiot.
    She’s come up with everything she can to justify fucking somebody else’s husband.
    Actually OW, im the one with half his shit not looking to catch him with the next mistress.
    Congrats on “winning” him. You got a turd.

  • Dear unknown Chump, yep… I am talking to you. You that are still wasting time following a swine on Facebook and believing your husband loves you. You need to wake up now. Your husband is actually laughing at you in this very moment with his “best friend forever friend”… yep… that friend… that “other woman” you are stalking. (yeah, they are still fucking). Your beloved prince is laughing at you. Repeat this sentence until it gets into your brain. You need to act. Dump his ass right now. Pretend every single penny that you are allowed to. Protect your children. Which kind of example you wish to give them? Seriously you want them to grow up with a man that cannot keep his pants closed? (i told you already… they are still fucking). You want them to have as an example a man that has no respect for the woman he choose to marry but prefers spending his time fucking around with little nagging pigs whining for attention? (again and again, unknown chump… they are still fucking. And if they are not right now, they will do it tomorrow… maybe with this OW, maybe with another one… maybe with a new one… maybe with the three together… who knows… assholes are assholes… they never change). Protect yourself. With how many women did he had slept with? With how many men these women had slept with? Do the math… chances of getting a disease are getting higher. Dump him, grieve the time you wasted around him, start a new chapter. No need to spend more precious time running behind two cockroaches… let them alone in the dirt they are used to. You are enough.

    • hahaha.. I’ve told her that many times… but she LOVES HIM…. hahahaha, he can do no wrong. Everything is forgiven after she cries her head off, spends the night on the bathroom floor, next day she forgives him and gives him a bj!! lol. Oh, TRUE LOVE… it’s so special 🙂

      • Cant reason with an asshole apparently elle is after and ranking down on everyone today. She is just so delightful isnt she with her playground tactics. Really shows true character on her part. I say it time to stop feeding the troll. She will never get it. Perhaps she was dropped on her head when she was a baby.


        Ignition on! Pineapple!!!!!

        • Per my note above, everyone should stop responding to Elle & write your own most empowering moment.

          • Agree Tempest.

            Really irritating to have to witness and have CN polluted by this person’s pathetic and delusional bragging. We are feeding kibbles to her by replying.

            Plus, she has absolutely no capacity for moral reasoning, the cells of her tissues simply do not have the receptors that send the moral signals to her soul. No triggers for fairness, shame, empathy. Just like our cheaters. Do we talk to walls and expect them to move away for us to pass?

            I so happy for Marisa getting her divorce. Please cheer me on, I am fighting for mine.

            • ClearWaters–it’s never easy divorcing the disordered, but stay the course. Let us know when your divorce is final. Hugs!

          • ^^^This. I’m starting to think the entire story us made up and the OP/troll is just having us all on for entertainment purposes, which tells you all you need to know. Typical attention whore.

      • well, elle… I am pretty sure this attitude of your will bite your ass later in life. Making fun of people pain is sick, and you should get therapy. Or a life… or both eventually. One day someone else will make fun of your pain, and the you’ll understand.
        Or maybe it will happen to your mother or to your sister… who knows! Life is long and amazing, isn’t it? That day we will see if you will be still “entertained”.
        I guess for you, the real reason is that you are jealous cause he choose to stay with wife. But that’s my betting. For the dignity… you have no dignity … how can you teach someone what is it? And for the fact you will never sleep with a cheater… dude… you fucked one for some times and still stalking his wife… I mean.. how pathetic is this?

        • well I’d use a cheater for fun, or a rebound, but would never MARRY him or start anything serious. That’d be stupid.

          • The fact that you are talking about his wife, stalking his wife, relishing his wife’s pain (a lot of wife obsessing) means it became SERIOUS a long time ago. You can deny it all you want. Still does not make it incorrect. I guess that make you STUPID. Btw, CN knew you were stupid the minute you slinked into bed with a married man.

          • “oh I would never marry him. “This is a typical OW comment. It’s crap! You would not be fighting for him this hard if you didn’t want him in the end. You showed the wife this site hoping she would leave him. You don’t fool any of us. You are so manipulative . But it hasn’t made the wife budge so your upset. What about him? Why hasn’t he left? It’s too painful for you to blame him, so you blame her. She’s the victim! You are the predator! He is the man getting all the cake.

          • “well I’d use a cheater for fun, or a rebound, but would never MARRY him or start anything serious. That’d be stupid.”

            You want nothing serious, yet you stalk and harass his wife? Three years and you are still watching and waiting for him to choose you instead? Why don’t you sign up for some college courses and try to get an education. Intelligence isn’t sexy buy hey you might learn something. Maybe you can find employment and carry your own weight and build your low, low self-worth. A therapist might be of help. If you are willing, I have read that there are some narcissists and sociopaths who can benefit from treatment if they are willing to work hard. Skip the adopting a pet; I’m guessing you have a history of harming animals.

      • Elle you were here a few days ago under another name, CL pulled you off quick.
        Your a low life laughing at someone’s heart break.
        Get a life you are circling the drain and come off as a royal bitch!

        • Just deleted a post from Elle that claims the wife did write a letter to CL a while back “dear CL the OW told me to read your blog.”

          (Deleting her as fast as I can today).

  • Dear Elle….I doubt it’s your real name….you sound more like an Ellie.

    Nothing wrong with name Ellie but as an OW Elle seems much more sophisticated and fits your high class image.

    You seem like the kind of Gal who if you won a million dollars you’d get the expensive kind of Mac&Cheese and use french Dijon mustard on your Meatloaf. The kind of Gal who stops buying Wine in juice box boxes and drinks using a glass instead of straight from the nozzle.

    The name Elle is so french or at least upper class South Side East West of the Train Tracks.

    I’d like to refer to you as Le Ellie , I can picture you with a jaunty hat twirling it into the sky as you saunter the streets of Paris Idaho. You’re Spectacular, Le Ellie la femme Dignity who is so unique that only a married man is good enough for for her.

    La Femme Le Ellie, a name that inspires Accordion Players, Slam Poetry and Eau De Toilet scent.

  • Uuuuhhh duuuhhhm, I’m in a new relationship duh.. He’s still acting like a lovesick puppy. I would never ever be with a cheater. I’m purely keeping this friendship up to keep his hopes up, and to piss her off. It’s entertaining to see her explode every time I contact him (which really is only about 4 times a year). And I actually think it’s good advice for her to keep her dignity, instead of acting like a toddler. She has a better chance of fixing her marriage by acting dignified. Now he just thinks she’s a twit. By acting like a toddler she’s just digging her own grave deeper and deeper, and I’ve told her that. But she doesn’t seem to understand that men are not really into pathetic women.

    • No elle you are the pathetic one. And you wouldnt be with a cheater? Didnt you write in as the other woman? To get off on someone else pain is just plain damn mean. Duhhhhh! You are just a mean bully. Karma is a bitch and i certainly hope your turn comes real soon.

    • Ellie….

      It’s not dignified to use improper grammar and the word “duh”. Stay classy Ellie!!!

      You seem distressed….are you out of boxed wine?

    • I’ve actually raised a toddler, and I can assure you that your behavior is far more childish than the wife’s. My primary message to my toddler (now preschooler) is: WE DON’T HURT OTHER PEOPLE ON PURPOSE. Toddlers have a hard time wrapping their heads around that, because they are tiny sociopaths who have not yet developed empathy or self-control (much like you describe of yourself). You are projecting your own issues into the wife. She is not the victim, Elle, she is your mirror.

    • Then why hasn’t he divorced her yet if he thinks she is so pathetic? Then he could play “lovesick puppy” without continuing to demean his own dignity by being a cake eating adulterer.

    • Please stop responding to her.
      Look at all of us just tossing kibble, have we learned nothing here?
      She’s not worth it.
      All of us need to stay tuned for the letter where she writes in that he finally left the wife, married her, saddled her with a couple of kids he no longer has any use for, and is now leaving her for the other woman.
      It’ll happen…..patience.
      Please remember her name so we can all give her a collective “I told you so…”
      not that she’s worth it.

  • Where do I even start with this one….

    I am unsure of this OWs age, however the immaturity of her letter, and then second post is what stood out to me.

    You reach an age in life (I am early 30s but I reached this age many many many years ago) where you no longer act like you use to in High School. You longer sit and gossip about people, you no longer laugh at others dispare, you take responsibility for your own actions, you no longer make fun of people, you treat people with respect, the thought of someone trying to hurt or upset someone on purpose disgusts you. This all happens because you mature. This just hasn’t seemed to have happened yet to Elle and the husband.

    Let’s take the subject matter away from this for a moment ….. In any situation in life where you are purposefully trying to hurt someone and make their life hell, and get pleasure from that – that shows more about you than your target. A happy, healthy, caring and compassionate person could not do that. Why are you so unhappy Elle? I don’t know you, however these actions are not of someone who is feeling good about themselves.

    Extensive reasearch has been carried out about bullies, and why they do it. 9 times out of 10 it’s because something is going on with the bully that they are struggling with. Or you could just be an Asshole, that is entirely possible, however, I would suggest some self reflection.

    Sitting around with a grown man, laughing and making fun of his wife is not an attractive image to people. Not just Chumps, but in general. It’s not normal and it is not healthy.

    Do I condone everything his wife has done? No. However, if you for one moment could put yourself in her shoes, you could see how this poor woman could reach this point. However, that may be a hard stretch for you, considering the obvious lack of empathy you have.

    I hope that one day you will get the help you need.

    • In the meantime, I’d suggest that the loving wife kick that cheater out and let him get his bjs somewhere else.

      Of course, he probably is already doing that.

      This nasty bit of nothing is already dumped but she won’t admit it to herself.

      Drop the mic on this one; she’s not worth any more replies.

  • I would like to start a GoFundMe for the wife to get a divorce from this fuckwit so that Elle can start living the dream of happy marriage with him. Sheesh.

    • never going to happen.. Better give the money to me, and I’ll leave them alone forever. You see, she loves him, true love, even a little (or multiple) affairs can’t change that. She took vows, and she LOVES HIM. She will never, ever leave him, because true love (did I mention that?).

      No way, the doormat will divorce. She is a believer in unicorns. I told her about this site, and she lasted 2 seconds. She believes he loves her. She listens to words, she doesn’t look at actions. I’m the reason their marriage sucks. When I’m away, he will magically fall back in love with her. I’m not making this up, she actually believes this.

      • I can see that it gives you spine tingling centrality to believe that you’re the reason that their marriage sucks, but you’re not. Sorry.

        • you must have misunderstood. I know I am not. But his wife thinks I am. She thinks I’m the sole reason their marriage sucks right now, that their marriage is perfect otherwise. Hence my comment: once I’m gone (her main mission atm) they will be so happy again! She actually believes that.

          • it’s called *sarcasm*. I’m happy to take a million dollars and walk away, but apparently their love isn’t worth that much.

            • Elle – I’m sorry that you don’t know your own self worth. It is something that no amount of money can buy. A person who is confident in their own worth doesn’t need to intentionally hurt others or stick around to watch others in pain to feel good about themselves. A person with self worth doesn’t settle for being the OW… let alone the post-OW kibble bowl. Thank you for reminding all of us exactly the kind of woman an X can look forward to spending his/her life fucking… someone like you.

          • So walk away. Go no contact with him. Let her find out that you are not the problem with her marriage. Maybe that is what will be needed to get her to see the light and leave her cheater and gain a life. Right now you are the problem because you are deliberately keeping her focus on you and off of him and his shortcomings. If you go away and stop stirring the pot, maybe she will have a chance to examine the real issues in her marriage (i.e. he is a dickwad).

  • Hi Chumplady,

    I think this letter is nothing but an attempt by Elle to hurt as many people as she can, as is evidenced by her pathetic story and replies to comments. If this is Troll-bait, she’s the Troll-Queen. I’m embarrassed I even engaged.

    Really, her story deserves no response at all – like all fake news, it’s just propaganda to denigrate and humiliate others with a bunch of lies.

    I stand by my opinion of her: no class.

    • Yep, she’s attempting to hurt the legion of chumps, not realizing that most of us will get a good laugh from her sense of self-importance and obvious projection.

      • I’m trying to give you all some insight in the condescendingness and craziness of OW. You’re welcome. Case study right here.

        • You’re presenting yourself as a case study in “condescendingness [sic] and craziness?” Crazy indeed.

        • We know about all about other women. We dont need advice from you. A pod who enjoys using people and taking delight in hurting others. Would you stop already!

        • Insight from you? Hahahahaha. why would we want insight from a pathetic loser? Perhaps a good therapist can give you insight about why you think so little of yourself that you continue to chance a broke, pathetic loser? Birds of a feather, I guess.

        • What happens when your significant other finds out about your spitefulness and cruelty, Elle?

          If I get it, what motivates you is the wife’s ‘weakness’ really irritates you and you want to teach her a lesson to stand up for herself?

        • Message received.

          “Using” a person by pretending to be their “friend” while they denigrate the person they pledged to love and honor? You’re hilarious! Do you also kick kittens in your spare time?

          Thanks for the Public Service Announcement. Why don’t you apply for sainthood?

          No class.

        • Elle

          There is nothing unique or special about you as the OW. It bothered me for a long time that he ended up with a classless whore who harassed me and got off on triangulation. What happened after I filed and scraped the serial cheater off my shoe and refused to engage? She got all that disorder to herself. She has to monitor his comings and going daily. She lives in constant fear of betrayal knowing he’s a serial cheater. He lost his earning power and close family due to his actions and her clinging. He now talks about her instead, cheats on her instead, lies to her instead. She is stuck with seeking out evidence. If you know a man cheats on a woman he MARRIED, what do you thing they do when single? Now, that’s laughable.

          • THIS:

            “He now talks about her instead, cheats on her instead, lies to her instead. She is stuck with seeking out evidence. If you know a man cheats on a woman he MARRIED, what do you thing they do when single? Now, that’s laughable.”

            Well said DM!

            THEY. DON’T. CHANGE.

            • Haha, I have my very own case study, The Limited and Nanthony.

              As soon as I stopped saving him from his dark side and dumped him he lost big time.

              That dark side? Alcohol, pot, pathological lying, leading a double life, serial cheating, bed wetting, hearing loss, complaints, bad back, two inch dick, and covert narcissism is all yours for the keeping. That is one powerful chump dropping she won. And all she had to do was sleep with him and pretend he was the best liver and onions she ever tasted. Oh, baby you’ve got it. Pub frys and crazy are the new retirement. Forget your dreams. You sucked it; you own it.

        • Elle, it sounds like all you’ve got going for you is your ability to fuck.

          That is something literally every single life form on earth is capable of.

          You’ve got holes and you fill them with married mens’ dicks.

          And you’re a bitch about it.

          Please don’t reproduce.

        • So, actually you are posing and amplifying the unimportance of the OW so we can realize our own strengths. Because looking at the responses to you, they are scrappy and tough and illustrate the pride and esteem we have discovered within ourselves. You are embodying the condescension and craziness of the OW to illustrate the relative nothingness of the AP. Pretty clever.

  • I read online that a man (possibly in college) decided to make up a sad story and send it to all the advice columnists. Several of them bit and gave advice. I am assuming this person is a troll, so he and his fraternity brothers, with bellies full of beer, are probably having a great time. Someone who professes to be the other woman does not write this kind of stuff. If the wife, or ex-wife, is stalking she is probably so grief stricken she is unaware of how she comes across. If this is another woman she is nuts. What is she doing hanging around a married man who does not appear to be interested in her except every now and then? What is she doing reading remarks that have been written by chump husbands and wives? What is she getting out of it? I am pretty sure this is a guy with a lot of beer and some crazy friends.
    Although, if you read some cheaters’ blogs you get a scary education about the real narcissism that is rampant in our culture.

  • One last thing Elle, I won’t be commenting on this post anymore to give you the attention you crave…so I will leave you with this…


  • I have finally lost all anger for the other woman, or in his case, many other women. A dog is always going to find a leg to hump, and these women didn’t make a commitment to me, they didn’t declare their love for me 20 times a day, he did. I save my anger for who deserves it, because if it wasn’t her, it would have been another her, any available hole was good enough. And as we all know, they got a real prize, because she now thinks he is in love with her, as he texts me daily with sad sausage, I love you so much, I need “us” back. Good Luck sweetie, he’s yours now!

  • “I was the OW. Still friends with him.”

    Your *are* the OW. Just like a murderer is still a murderer even when they’re not currently murdering someone. Just like a rapist is still a rapist when not raping. Just like a thief is still a thief even when not stealing at that moment. You are an OW. It is so matter-of-fact that you’re still “friends” with your co-conspirator.

    “She doesn’t like it.”

    DUH. When my brother got involved with drugs and it tore his world apart, as well as his friends’ and family’s, we demanded his old friends leave him the fuck alone. Doing drugs was totally his fault, of course… but he wasn’t getting a chance to clean up, much less figure out what was so broken in him that he did such awful things, filling a hole inside himself with needy sluts and weed like a fucking out-of-control savage. We changed his number. When old “friends” came around, we’d take their license plate down, call the state troopers, and give them the numbers, their names, addresses and phone numbers if we knew them, and tell them they were sure to bust them on drugs if pulled over. They ended up getting all the dealers. No more problems for a long time after that… we’d cut off the supply. It was the time he needed to re-focus and decide for himself that filling a void within with harmful things and resultant behaviors is a terrible way to live. His real friends knew that too. Many of them cleaned it up as well. Some didn’t but they actually cared about him and realized their presence would harm him again. That’s a friend.

    “She sends emails to all my family and friends about me. She contacted my employer to get me fired. She contacted immigration to get me deported. She went to the police as apparently me contacting him is the same as me stalking her (???). She has no luck obviously. She filed numerous complaints against his therapist. You should tell desperate wives like this to maintain their dignity. She’s making such a fool of herself.”

    You fucked up her entire world. She wants to cut off the supply. Yes, she’s desperate. So? Her husband vowed to be faithful to her until death. Instead, he fucked someone else. He’s not sorry about betraying her and she can’t understand how he has no remorse. *She* still feels bound by the vows she made to him because her marriage is actually important to her.

    “She writes superlong facebook posts (complaints) about her hubby but still stays with him and claims the marriage is ‘happy.’”

    You know she isn’t happy.
    In other news, black holes exist. Shitty people lie. Hearts are broken every day.

    “This wife is so codependent and after 3 years still dancing so hard. Doesn’t she see she should maintain her dignity? Because right now she has none.”

    I think you don’t understand the meaning of the word. Here, let me help:

    the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect.

    You and her husband stole her sense of dignity. Now you’re complaining that she doesn’t have it? Did you take hers because of the FACT that neither of you have any of your own? You could have been worthy of honor or respect… but it was too much trouble? So rather than feel inadequate, you cut hers down and pull the rug out from under her any time she makes some progress? (BTW, fucking a married friend is very undignified.)

    “No wonder he doesn’t respect her.”

    He is entirely unfamiliar with the sensation of respect itself. He obviously has none for himself or others. Why is his inability to respect himself and others *her* fault?

    “Please give some advice to these poor, poor women who think they have such a happy marriage, but need to bombard innocent 3rd parties with emails and phonecalls and threats to keep their man. I mean if she needs to beg MY parents to tell me to leave him alone she has a problem.”

    The fact that you know you’ve played a massive role in destroying a “friend’s” marriage, and continue? That you can’t recognize when you’re doing harm, even to yourself? That shows that you have a problem. Form a shred of dignity, Other Woman.

    A man with dignity, who no longer loves and honors his wife, would know that it was time to file for divorce, not cheat. It’s so very undignified to cheat, you know… it takes thousands of lies to accomplish. Lying to others. Lying to yourself. Living a life of undignified desperation. Asking others to lie for you. Having the potential exposure hanging over your head and giving you indigestion and the shits. Being so deceptive that your own body turns itself against you is very, very undignified. (I’m sure his wife could tell you all about his hour-long shits. You think he’s taking all this time to talk to you when really, his explosive ass is suctioning itself to the can in half-hour increments. How romantic!) Yes, all very undignified.

    “If her hubby loved her he would leave me alone all by himself don’t you think.”

    Yes, he would. He doesn’t love her; he’s using her. Again, there is no justice being done. Expose him by sending her every bit of evidence you have. All the messages, the photos, the chat logs. It shouldn’t bother you; you’re already exposed. The full span of truth will set them both free, and you too!

    On that same note, he doesn’t love you either; he’s using you. If he respected you, he wouldn’t have done things that could potentially ruin your life. He wouldn’t have hid you. The same goes for himself; he’d have left his horrible wife to build a life based on truth and dignity.

    It would be amazing, don’t you think – to live a life based on building true dignity?

  • Per my suggestion above, here was my most empowering moment:

    D-day on 9/11/14. I had been subject to extreme devalue for around 7 months (without realizing why). As soon as I saw the evidence that Hannibal Lecher was a cheater, I asked myself, “How much self-respect do you want to give up to stay in this marriage?” And a strong little voice inside said, “No more.”

    Left the condoms from Hannibal’s computer bag on the bed with a note that said, “We are over. Go to a hotel.” And that was the beginning of the end.

    • well you are smart. This wife is a unicorn believer, even after learning of 3 affairs and 5 Tinder dates. She’s a pathetic loser. She still thinks he loves her and that all will be good once I’m gone. Well, that ain’t gonna happen, it’s hilarious.

      • Generally, people who are this obsessed with the relationships and sex lives of others–and their is actually nothing particularly unexpected or newsworthy about a husband and wife having a relationship, including sex–have deficits in these areas of their own lives. Sounds like it is time for you to focus on establishing your own independent life, including a sexual relationship of your very own, so that you can free yourself of this pathological focus on another woman’s life. You sound quite jealous of her. It frustrates you that he stays, but why? She is his wife. You are not.

      • Cheater’s first OW was just like you. If it wasn’t for the deportation tidbit and the fact that you’re still so insecure that you have to bomb lives in order to feel *anything,* I’d think you were her.

        But that OW isn’t still stalking me anymore; she has her own problems. Her mother has terminal-but-lingering pancreatic cancer now. The two married sisters she has have serially-cheated on their own husbands and their households are now shattered. She’s left to run her mother to treatments and her nephews to everywhere while her only stable force in the past is falling apart.

        She is in pain, still, only for herself. She isn’t afraid of losing those people because she loves them; she’s afraid for what being unable to USE them causes her. They’re using her now. They all deserve each other.

        Karma is a steady bitch and it will absolutely be coming for you. The more you avoid the consequences of your behavior now and avoid real change, the harsher they’ll be when it does finally settle. You’ll feel things then, to be certain.

      • Cheater’s OW was just like you. If it wasn’t for the deportation tidbit and the fact that you’re still so insecure that you have to bomb lives and bask in the bits of schrapnel in order to feel *anything,* I’d think you were her.

        But that OW isn’t still stalking me anymore and showing up at the small park in my village all the way across the city; she has her own problems. She was fired for setting co-workers against each other. Her mother has terminal-but-lingering pancreatic cancer now. The two married sisters she has have serially-cheated on their own husbands and their households are now shattered. She’s left to run her mother to treatments and her nephews to everywhere while her only stable force in the past is falling apart. (How did I find this out, you may wonder. I was invited to her mother’s fundraiser and, not knowing who she was, went and donated. She was seething. I had a really great time.)

        She is in pain, still, only for herself. She isn’t afraid of losing those people because she loves them; she’s afraid for what being unable to USE them causes her. She complains that they’re using her. She was bitching about them. On the other side of the room, they were bitching about her. Amazing. They all deserve each other.

        Karma is a steady bitch and it will absolutely be coming for you. The more you avoid the consequences of your behavior now and avoid real change, the harsher they’ll be when it does finally settle. You’ll feel things then, to be certain.

      • So quick to judge her and yet here you are licking you lips; smiling through the defeat of not being; what should I say ‘good enough’.

        One wife and whores galore? You showed your hand didn’t you? Yes, you lost the pick ME dance big time. And you anger towards chumps?

        It’s really at yourself for letting men use and abuse you. Angry because you were conned. He said he loved you, ha! Sex didn’t buy you love, attachment or commitment once in your life. You prostituted yourself and never made the cut. Who victimized you? You were never good enough.

        Taking out your pain on others who have the qualities you lack is sad.

        You are in serious need of mental health treatment to determine why you continue to set yourself up for abuse repeatedly and despise those who have the capability to empathize and love. Coming here wasn’t a healing mission. It was to make yourself feel better. But you don’t because you are spewing your self hatred on innocents.

        • Right. Part of her short letter was complaining about the wife bringing innocent 3rd parties into the drama, yet that’s exactly what Elle is doing here. I’ll repeat what I said previously: she hates the wife because the wife is her mirror, reflecting back all of the things Elle hates about herself and projects onto the wife to escape seeing or feeling those things.

    • Telling Cheater that if he was going to kill himself, to wait until he heard the front door shut. Once he declared to kill himself, I decided that I would take the children out for ice cream so they wouldn’t have the memory of the sound of that shot seared into their brains for the rest of their lives.

      What a selfish prick, that he didn’t even consider it. He looked surprised, then some weird look of angry, self-pitying sadness when I left him standing there. No more suicide threats, motherfucker. G’head.

  • What is fucked up, is that this wife has no friends. They are all Switzerland, fake Christians, wanting the couple to reconcile. How fucked up is that??????? She has no one to help her get out of an abusive marriage (he hits her). Even her family supports reconciliation. And they have seen her hurting for the past 3 years and no one cares. It almost makes me feel sorry for her.

      • I hope the wife never goes off the deep end one day. You will likely be her first target.

        I remember being told years back that “the person who has nothing more to lose has just become the most dangerous person in the room”.

    • There is no reason to believe that you are who you say you are–it’s just as likely that you’re some teenage boy trolling from his parents basement than an actual OW. But, if you are legit in some regard, know that you can face real consequences. There are 16 states where adultery is criminally punishable (read: jail) and many more where you can be held civilly liable for your actions (read: lose your money). Should this woman chose that route, your entries on this website are easily traceable and subpoena-able. CL is not a clergy member and you are not anonymous. You will be found. And, per you, you’ve given this lady the keys to the kingdom by informing her of CL. So, she knows where to find your trail if she decides to go nuclear.

      Further, if there’s domestic violence involved here as you casually indicate, then your statements and involvement could be even more meaningful, when this guy gets brought up in charges. In fact, if anyone out here in CL land gets concerned about this woman’s immediate safety, we can contact the police who can contact CL to find you out and determine if this women is in imminent danger. That happens all the time. It’s 2017, you’re easily discoverable.

      Either way, if you’re for real and this poor woman has an epiphany and decides to start kicking asses and taking names or some concerned person on this site triggers law enforcement because of your statement about domestic violence, then you’re on the hook in more ways than one. You are not anonymous, let me repeat. Your a 5 minute investigation away from being found.

  • Another instance proving you never Affair Up. Sounds like she’s upset she lost image management.

    The OW in my case told my STBXH (when they were in contact after discovery) that I was broadcasting rumors about her all over town.

    Nope, honey, no rumors. Just the facts.


  • Obviously english is not your strong suit. Read my post again. The wife would be most likely to remove you from this earth. But I am sure the husband will make sure you get a nice send off. Oh wait, he has no money!

  • My first thought was WOW is she delusional if she believes everything cheaterpants is telling her and if she believes that she is an innocent third party. Then I always remember that we spackled and pick me danced, too. We also fell for the cheater’s lies and their version of reality.

    I am not saying that the two are equal. Spouses were violated and the AP was one of the violators, but both have been delusional and performed the pick me dance. Cheaters SUCK!

    As I told a friend recently…I have “some” empathy for OW in that I was used and manipulated by STBX too but I have zero sympathy for her since she knowingly started screwing around with a married man who had a family and whose wife was pregnant. How they can spackle those facts is beyond me.

  • I just sat myself down to a carafe of coffee and this column. First- thank you Chump Lady, for keeping it real. I appreciate seeing these clueless wonders exposed for what they really are – petty, shallow, lost souls. There is nothing to envy about them. They are the bitter ones. They are delususional psychotics. Helpless. Hopeless. Imbeciles. Zeroes.

    “People grow through experience IF they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built.” Eleanor Roosevelt

    What kind of character can one expect to build, if one spends their days and nights, lying, hiding, cheating? – elle!. Just a run of the mill, any garbage strewn back alley or parking lot will do. Classy!

    This is going to be a great day! I know who I am. And I am overcome with joy that I am not elle

  • Thank you for the comment moderation. However, I just don’t think Elle is the kind of woman we need here at all.

    It’s vile and nasty. I understand why the letter was posted, as I found it fascinating to read that some delusional woman actually thought all of that (Elle). However allowing her to comment further with such poison is our sanctuary feels kinda wrong? I don’t know, I am new here, but it’s just a different vibe.

    We could talk to her until we are blue in the face, but we won’t be able to help her see the error of her ways. You can lead a horse to water and all that….

  • Elle’ trolling is so pathetically poor I’m meh before I can bother responding.

    The only point I can see for this post is; when you get to that point in your extraction from an abuser that you start to feel some pity for the AP, come back and read this. The cheating spouse is not the only one who lacks empathy, acts without ethics and is dishonest and disordered. PS: that thing so many look for, karma? This is who they end up with, almost makes you believe in ‘soul mates’, almost…

    • Yes. I agree. I refuse to see the chump wife through Elle’s lens. All I see is how pathetic Elle is. That she has to live with her own interior ugliness is her karma even if she doesn’t realize it.

  • Having read through more of Ellie/Schmoopie (or whoever’s) responses I am now convinced that she really is just some bored frat boys having some fun. I think we’ve been fooled again.

    As for empowering moments I really haven’t had a big one yet, just lots of little ones that keep me moving in the right direction however slowly.

    What I have had are validating moments. Here are a few:

    1. When the wife of couples friends who have known us for years and spent time traveling with us and living in close quarters first found out were in counseling and knew I was distraught over it and she looked me in the eye and said “you were a good wife”. (she didn’t even know about Schmoopie then)
    2. When our former nanny of six years who had also had plenty of time to observe us as a family said she was angry for me that he had moved out to get freedom from his marriage after all I had done for him over the years to show that I cared and to make his life easier. She also didn’t know about Schmoopie.
    3. When STBX’s own family rallied immediately to my side the first time we went to see them as a family after STBX confessed his decision to leave me for another woman to them. They told me in no uncertain terms that they would always consider me family and hoped I felt the same way. His sister said he was being a jerk and that I was her only sister and she didn’t want to lose me.

    All of that helped me to get beyond not only blaming myself for his cheating, but also for blaming myself for all of the problems in our marriage. I wasn’t perfect, but I was pretty good. He let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    • Agree–the endless shifting to be right is either someone playing a role, or someone truly troubled. Obsessive focus on the wife is creepy, either way. But, I actually think it is kind of an interesting experiment to engage with the thinking, even if the person is a charade. Does not take much delving to uncover the pathology.

  • Okay Tempest, I’ll play along. One of my most empowering moments: DDay #2. On DDay#1 I was an extreme Chump. I listened to my ex when he said that the affair was my fault because I wasn’t making him happy enough. He gave me a list of items I was to correct about myself so that he would stay. I did them all. Four years later, DDay#2. This time when he started with the “I’ve been increasingly unhappy in the marriage” lecture I stuck my hand up in the classic “STOP” gesture and told him I wasn’t having it. Told him to leave and began the long sometimes painful but ultimately rewarding process of unchumping myself and learning to live an authentic life.

  • I’m taking Tempest’s advice and writing about my most empowering moment rather than engage with an OW.

    There are so many empowering moment since DDay and leaving.
    *I guess the first empowering thing I did not allow a second DDay to happen. I saw the lie of “we’re just friends” for what it was.
    *I found out who my real and true friends were.
    * I found out how wonderful my family is.
    *I found out my heart was still so capable of love without bitterness.
    * I found out I can parent my son alone and do a great job at it.
    *I bought my first house all by myself.
    *I changed my last name so I no longer carry the name of the cheater who gave it to me.
    *I won in court for all the financial debt he tried to leave with me. Hell no buddy!! LOL
    *I found a hobby and happiness in being single!!
    *I am dating a fellow Chump who gets me and I get him. It’s been a breath of fresh air.

  • Tempest you are always an inspiration to me.

    The final moment for me, the one that allowed me to completely let go, was several years after he left. I was trying to be the stupid “chill girl”, trying to be cool friends despite the fact that every part of my psyche ached. It was the longest, most convoluted, torturous pick me dance I could create.

    The basement had been his domain and since his exit I had closed the door and could not face it but I had decided to downsize so it had to be cleaned. Of course it was a horrible mess, he had taken all of the things of worth and left fishing remnants, computer carcasses and lots of packaging garbage etc. for me to clean. There I found used condoms on the floor and two different earrings.

    I could no longer pretend that he was ever, in any part, the man I thought he was. I finally went no contact and I think only then did my recovery start. I will say to all who are beginning this journey, RIP THAT BAND AID OFF, do not drag that shit out. Don’t be a sucker to the sunk costs fallacy like I was.

    On another note, I believe actual friendship requires respect for the friends relationship partners, perhaps you might do some research into what friendship really entails. Sorry couldn’t resist one poke at the LW.

  • Oh this was fun to read. A few empowering moments here:
    1. Reading about an OW like this and not feeling a thing even though it so closely related to the OW I knew. I pity Elle and the karma that is on its way. Because I promise you the karma is oh so real and life has a very funny way of allowing the right people to witness it in one way or another.
    2. Over the course of time since DDay, moving out and the divorce has gone final – I have watched karma unfold on the x. His dog (the one thing he “cares” about) got cancer and will die anytime, he’s torn a ligament, got robbed, got poked in the eye so bad he needed surgery, he got a huge wart on his head and all the while acknowledging that life is giving him exactly what he deserves.

    I don’t revel in his pain. I just know that what you put out into the universe comes back to you at one time or another. Makes me smile to know that being a good person and sane parent for the sake of “just doing the right thing” has its eventual, 18 years of front row seats and perks.

  • “I was the OW. Still friends with him. She doesn’t like it.” She contacts my parents and posts on Facebook, I DON’T LIKE IT (but to cover up my hurt I’ll throw a negative label on her… let’s use the word Pathetic… that’s a good word, that captures exactly what “I” am feeling). You do know, it is all about me right?

    My god, doesn’t she sound like a totally irrational human being for being upset that I contacted HER husband!

    How dare she contact my parents… they are innocent! She’s dragging them into a situation they don’t want to be in ….

    hmmmm, ? kind of like you did to the wife when you decided to pull her into your triangle of (uh-hum, clears throat) “friendship” by sleeping with her husband…but let’s just overlook the pesky little fact!

    The wife seems very entitled to think she can just say and do whatever she wants regardless of the consequences; we must behave civilly and in the best interest of others to maintain some social grace… my god, where is her dignity!!!!

    hmmm ?… but let’s just overlook your entitlement to sleep with someone else’s husband and to continue to contact him because you “are still friends” … now that my friend, is brimming the word “Dignity”.

    How dare she write on her own Facebook wall… the gall of such a woman! Doesn’t she know I “stalk” (oh strike that, she’s the stalker, not me!) her Facebook and “I”, oops I mean “she”, is really pathetic.

    I mean really, she is so co-dependent; she should let her husband go and stop doing the pic me dance. I could teach her a thing or two about being co-dependent, oops I mean, independent… I mean really, I (eerrr)… “she” needs to move on and get a life and let go of what is dead. She’s trying to force herself into his life. Not like me, I’m just being his side dish friend, lurking in the shadows, balking at her foolishness. Now I certainly know what it looks like to be independent! She could learn a thing or two from me! Here’s the formula I use to make actual patheticness LOOK like self-assuredness. Get ready, it’s time for…

    Victimhood 101 –
    Deny you’ve done anything worthy of blame. This is a very important step. I find using euphemisms is a really good way to accomplish this.

    Attack the character of the real victim. Use negative labels to destroy even the possibility of disagreement. Words like pathetic, stalker and co-dependent are really good words.

    Use their responses to your own behavior to paint yourself as the victim. This reversal of roles is a solid way for you to become the victim of their behavior. See… I don’t understand why she is treating me so badly! How dare she contact my parents, they are innocent… that makes her the bad one right?

    Be carful to avoid using any words that might imply their behavior is the logical outcome of something you’ve done (remember, you are the victim here)! Don’t use healthy words like consequences or boundaries; sanitize the shit out of words that describe your own behavior, you wouldn’t want anyone to think you are anything other than a victim!
    – A sub point to remember here: keep the focus on what they’ve done to you! If at all possible completely remove your own behavior from the equation. Use your own feelings in place of verifiable facts! If your behavior is brought into question feign innocence… use words that denote some mystical, indescribable or unprovable action (again, replacing facts with feelings is an excellent way to accomplish this)! I find words like fate, spellbound, spiritual, meant to be, etc. are all good ways to sanitize behavior, by implying that a personal action was outside of our own control. It really is very effective!

    I’m so glad I got to explain other woman/man 101 to you today! I felt so unimpowered by the fact that I was sitting on the sidelines and watching my “friends” wife take action, how dare she! To feel a little more powerful I submitted my victimhood story to you all. I know you will feel sorry for me and appreciate just how difficult being the other woman is. So thank you for listening to my bullshit and making me feel like I have a voice! I don’t actually want to be outed for my behavior, that’s why I prefer covert means of operation. Now I know I run the risk of being called out… BUT, if that happens, I will employ victimhood 101, and add a check mark ✅ to the list of people who are mean to me for no justifiable reason whatsoever.

  • One of my most empowering moments happened about a month ago. I had continued to let STBX visit with the kids in my house because the baby has a seizure disorder and he wouldn’t know what to do if she had a seizure. He did something crappy to my 15 year old son and when he left the room I asked STBX if he was trying to get his son to stop talking to him again. That pissed him off…you know – not what he did, but son’s reaction to it. He then threatened (for the third time) to tell the kids a story about me from when I was 19 so the kids would know I was no saint either.

    I then told him to get out, lightly pushed his back as he went out the door and told him he was to stay out. I haven’t let him back in the house since. He has barely seen the 15 year old (son’s choice) or the baby (he hasn’t bothered to get training to care for her in the 9 months since her diagnosis). Only my 13 year old daughter has done anything with him and that was only twice for less than an hour each.

    Choices and consequences are a package deal.

  • I agree with Tempest, pay no attention to the sad little pile of **** so desperate for attention and validation that she writes a letter to CL.
    My moment of “no more” was the look on the OW face as she was trying to run my car into oncoming traffic… she had her “prize ” yet she was still focused on me. She had left threatening notes, put nails in my tires, etc. I had gone NC long before and yet there she was….. Still trying to get a reaction from me, from my grown kids. Trying to prove who knows what, all I knew was that we no longer cared.

    When DDay happened I didn’t want to be anywhere near him. My first reaction was to run/move away. But then with advice from some amazing people, they helped me realize that that decision had to based not on a gut reaction, but on me. So happy to say that after 4 years, I’m househunting in the state that I had always dreamed of living in ever since high school. New life, new adventures.

  • Look at the first three lines: “I was the OW. Still friends with him. She doesn’t like it.”

    That tells the whole story. It’s all about the triangle. The OW loves the drama. Why is she “still friends” with a cheater who dumped her to “wreckoncile” but still wants to be friends? Because the wife “doesn’t like it.” It wasn’t about the sex or the emotional fulfillment or unmet needs or how awesome CheaterPants is. It’s that triangle.

    But a triangle can’t exist without 3 sides. If the chump refuses to play, the thrill is gone. In this case, the chump doesn’t have that option because CheaterPants is “still friends” with OW. This is why so many of us say: Get your ducks in a row. See an attorney. Get a therapist on board to help you heal. Leave a cheater. Gain a life.

    My own most empowering moment? When I picked up the crap he left in my house and carted it (3 SUV loads) to a storage facility. In -8 degree weather. That’s how much I wanted everything connected to him out of my house. I paid for a locker, wrote a civil letter, and started the process of letting go.

  • The reason Chump Nation is so successful and loved is because unless you have been betrayed in the way we all have here, you can NEVER know what it feels like.

    The women on here are all way more of a woman than you will ever be, I suspect Elle. They have invested their lives, love, sweat, trust and integrity into another human being, and had it smashed back in their faces.

    I repeat, no one can ever know what this feels like until you have experienced it, just like child birth or losing a loved one. So please do not even presume to think that you can judge the reactions and behaviour of someone who has experienced this kind of betrayal.

    We all deal with it in different ways, taking a long tortuous route to realise the horrible truth of it all. I suspect you are not capable of loving another human enough to even begin to understand what I’m talking about.

    In essence, commenting on you is really a pointless exercise but like Chumplady says, it’s difficult to resist sometimes.

  • Forgive me if I sound daft but could someone enlighten this chump as to the significance of Tuesday?

  • I am laying in my own bed reading about Elle. In my own home. My children are still sleeping! It is spring break and we stayed up extra late last night and watch TV. I have a good job and I can go in when I want.

    The divorce is in motion and Turdd has lost his job! Child support stopped two months ago but gives a fuck? I don’t need him. I certainly don’t need his money.

    I used to be as harmed as Elle’s whipping post. It took me five years to leave him.

    What is my most empowering moment? This very second. This very moment in time. Elle, you make me laugh.

    My best to you Elle. When Fate comes for you, you’re going to need all the data questions you can find. You can already smell it on the wind.

  • I have a socially awkward cousin in his early 30s. In the middle of conversations, he says things that are only tangentially related to the topic. And he never has any point to make, although he believes he does. We all tense up when he speaks, because he’s embarrassing himself but doesn’t even realize it.

    He thinks he’s being witty and wise, when in fact what he says is often non-sensical. Everyone can see how desperate he is for our attention and validation, but none of us can give it. We can’t respect him and engage with him as mature adults because–for whatever reason–he isn’t one, and every word he utters just confirms that.

    This is, in fact, all true.

    Wait, what are we talking about on CL’s site today?

  • The letter begins with “I was the OW.” And then there’s some other stuff afterwards.

    Here’s where I have a problem. Having read this, I want more information. Some possible next sentences.

    – Her husband lied to me and said he was single.

    With that one, I actually feel some sympathy for the OW. If she was hoodwinked, trusted him, failed to do her ‘due diligence’ and ended up falling for him, I can understand that. If he’s only available for a few hours in the evenings, rarely on the weekends, and only available for booty calls during work hours, something is suspicious, and she should look into what’s up. If she found out he was married, immediately ended the relationship, and yelled at him for tricking her, I can sympathize. That said, this is almost never the case, and I suspect that most of the stories along these lines are the OW doing serious damage control after the fact.

    – Her husband said they were in the process of divorce, it was almost complete.

    Again, possibly another fabrication (although in this case, sometimes the affair causes the divorce, making it a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts). One can easily see why a single woman, trying to find a spouse, could throw herself at a man in the process of a divorce, wanting to be first in line once he’s free. Sure, she’s skirting the ethics a little, but if she ends up with her happier ever after, maybe it’s worth it. (To be clear, I’m stating her argument, not advocating it.) This probably happens a fair amount. The hubby bad mouths the supposedly STBXW to the OW, she sympathizes, develops a mental picture of a sex withholding nagging shrew who deserves her wonderful husband stolen from her.

    I have spent some time lurking on the cheater websites (there’s plenty of them, but you’ll have to find them yourself). Why? I wanted some insight on the kind of people who cheat. Part of fixing my picker, I suppose. Had to take it in small doses, some of the garbage they spewed out there kept me up some nights. But the sad/funny/tragic thing is that on these boards, where the OWs are complaining how they feel like second class wives and how they miss their MM (married man) when he’s with his family, is the statement “He says he’s going to leave her/his family to be with me eventually.” The response is almost always “Oh, honey, don’t believe that. They all say that, and they will never leave her for you.” It’s a trope there, seriously. Clearly, our experience here is almost exactly the opposite of that.

    So I guess what I glean from all this is that the cheater spins the story that divorce is imminent, OW tries to stake her claim on him by spreading her legs for him, cheater gets what he wants, strings her along for as long as he can or as long as he’s not bored with her, and then cuts it off, moving on to his next victim.

    Again, I can kind of see where the OW is coming from, she’s getting a different kind of gaslighting, I suppose, but she still knows she’s lying with dogs, and is hoping to come out of it without fleas. Not a lot of sympathy there.

    – Any other response along the lines of ‘respecting marriages of others doesn’t apply to me’.

    Here, the OW is showing that she’s morally bankrupt. She can spin it by saying things like “his marriage isn’t my problem,” or “we had to follow our hearts and see whether what we had was real,” or “we both believe in open marriages,” or “his wife was so horrible she drove him to me.” But in the end, she’s putting her needs and desires ahead of societal norms, just like the cheater is.

    Once I hear that message, anything else the OW says is ignored. It’s all a pile of rank fetid garbage, and I don’t want to waste my time reading it – I’ve done too much of that already.

    My take on this is that ‘Elle’ falls in the latter class (or is an internet troll, the letter is complete fiction, and he/she is laughing at all the anger we’re posting here). She clearly knows he was married, and doesn’t care. As far as I’m concerned, she has nothing of value to say. (And if he/she is an internet troll, then the less said in reply the better.)

    Hugs. Strength. Peace.

    • Classless, Aeronaut. Dumpster diving and this is all he could find? Elle, he’s playing it both ways. Do you really believe he wants to be with you? I’m sure you were the one who wanted the affair exposed. Can’t control the outcome or the lies. Good God OW are so desperate and envious to take pride in their need to hurt others to make themselves feel better. So pitiful.

  • Hmmmm. The most empowering thing so far has just been living without the always looming possibility of his presence.

    Even though I have a ways to go yet before everyone is sorted out and divorce is final, just having him out of my life on a day-to-day basis has been far and away the best and healthiest thing. No more eggshells, unless we’re cooking. It’s amazing. Whole new and better world. I need to remind myself of that when things feel rough.

    Good topic, Tempest.

    • This!!!!!! I already have more peace in my life, even while dealing with the divorce. I get to be my authentic self without having to walk on those eggshells and mold myself into someone he wants.

      • Right? It’s a losing game, anyway. Their ever shifting needs cannot be met by anyone. Just to be free of the daily burden of their black energy is amazing.

        • It was a constant game between him wanting to NOT have his activities censored (wanted to do what he wanted when he wanted) on one hand while complaining with the other that he didn’t feel needed at home. I could not win.

          As my son said after he left – “At least now we can do what we want without having to worry about whether dad might want to do it or not or constantly try to get him to want to spend time with us.”

    • Cashmere,

      I was so surprised, shocked actually, how much stress I had been under when he was finally gone and it all began to fall away.

      I can’t go 100% no contact because of my babies but I am as close as I can be. I do notice that when I do have to deal with him, I feel heavy and burdened.

      It was a horrible five years and I have lots of self-care and work to do between the ears but I am feeling rather “light” this morning.

      • Same exact experience here, Grace. Now, when he futilely rages at me, I’m amazed that I managed to live with that nonsense for so long. It’s a killing thing. Kind of feels like coming out of hibernation or some weird suspension of real life, doesn’t it? Look, here we are turning into ourselves again, and yes it is challenging, but also very worthwhile.

  • I want to thank Chump Lady for offering us this letter as a stage on which an OW could show her true self.
    And she did. She lurked the site with comments.
    We had the chance to see how she changes her story based on our view. She will always “win” the argument. Does not matter if she contradicts herself. Does not matter how she comes across.
    As long as we talk to her, she exists.

    Please use the search function to track her comments. Then draw your own conclusions.
    Brilliant idea, dear Chump Lady! Awesome!

  • Empowering moment since I gained a life? I can read a map the a champ! I can go anywhere and not feel bad about how I get there, and if I make a wrong turn, I’m Zen, and keep going on my journey of me!

    Every time we’d go somewhere or on vacation, the EX would make me feel so stupid and insecure because I couldn’t read a map “right”. Never had a happy vacation because of it, always in a bad mood because heaven forbid travel isn’t perfectly smooth.

    Now I work for a major real estate company putting together maps and aerials Like a boss! I’ve gone on so many trips by myself and had so much fun because I am free!

    I read the map right, and got outta jerkland and into mightyville!!

    • This is my motto. If your gas tank is close to empty you are lost. If your tank is full you are on an adventure. You have a full tank!

  • I’m glad this is the topic today. I have a prurient interest in an OW’s justification.

    After my own Shit Show and , I realize that very few people take responsibility for their choices.

    I’ve never looked at Cheater Apologist websites. I imagine the things Cheaters say are as pathetic as Elle’s letter.

    The best part? It’s crystal clear that these people are losers. They are absolutely not an improvement over the Chump. They all deserve each other.

  • I can’t think of any particular moments that stand out as empowering.

    But as I read through the comments, I agree that clearing out the areas of the house that were “his” felt the most empowering. As I did that, I reclaimed them and made them mine. Often, I even said it quietly aloud, “I’m reclaiming this now.” Some messy drawers. His side of the closet and sink. An office closet.

    Even thoroughly cleaning the grill and buying a new brush and cover for it to make it truly mine… that felt empowering. Tiny bits of redecorating here and there.

    So much in my house is from our years here together, but it truly feels like MY house. He hasn’t lived here in almost a year. Sure, his name is technically still on the deed for a while longer, but it’s MY house.

    That’s empowering.

  • Chump Nation, as you have seen above, Elle is taking great delight in baiting us to defend the wife and ourselves. She is getting a very sick pleasure out of it all. I implore each of you to show her the true meaning of dignity and class by going radio silent in her. We are providing her the kibble she desires. The same kibbles that we deny our own POS exes by NO CONTACT.

    Truly she is not worth the time, space or effort.

  • My empowering “moment” was a series of events in a short period of time.

    After I finally found evidence of my then H lying to me, I realized the marriage was over. He wanted out of the marriage, but was too cowardly to pull the plug, still hid that the reasons were due to an OW (and that there were earlier ones!). He was out of state for work, so it took another 6 weeks before actions could occur, but I moved quickly after that:
    1) found a mediator and filed
    2) opened a separate bank account and had my paycheck sent there
    3) found STBX a place to live which was acceptable for the kids (he refused to come home to find a place!). Yup, too wrapped up with his wonderful new life to care about the kids. I should have made him find a place himself, but I wanted it settled for the kids. Sigh.

  • Apologies but I have to ask this about Elle: is this the same Elle who has occasionally written before? I kind of remember the name when starting out here and reading the archives but I must have dismissed her content.

    Odd duck.

  • Analyzing a letter from a foolish, wicked OW may be educational, but interacting with her is not.
    The book of Proverbs says it well…

    – Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.

    – Do not speak to fools, for they will scorn your prudent words.

    – Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but a fool’s provocation is heavier than both.

    – Though you grind a fool in a mortar, grinding them like grain with a pestle, you will not remove their folly from them.

    – The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked make themselves a stench and bring shame on themselves.

  • She’s a Chump. He’s a manipulative user that you want to keep maintaining a relationship with despite the drama involved. What does that make you? Desperate. Cruel. Pathetic. Useless. Worry about your own truth, darling, not the Chump’s.

  • “Elle” sounds like a bored troll in her teens or early twenties, I had that tone when I used to troll at that age.

    That, or Elle is a man, that comment about bjs kinda implies that.

    Anyways… *crickets*

  • One of the wonderful moments: OW was pulling away couple of years after I was all gone. She kept feeling the walls of the box she was stuck in BUT; Jizum-boy came up with a story about me wanting him back. Ha! When I heard this I was home rolling on the floor with laughter, thumping the floor. I could not stop, like I wanted him (and their circus) back in my now so good life! My neighbors came knocking to see if I was Ok. I felt the muscle relaxation for days. She was still with him years later when he drove straight into a T-bone collision. Sad for her, but she made an informed choice.

  • Empowering moment?
    When I removed his name from the door and mail box!
    Next move: change the god damn lock! That time I felt protected. And I was right, because right after, he claimed to have a key. The thought of him lurking through our home (the home that he left behind) in my absence, just made me shiver.

  • To honor Tempest’s request, I will focus on empowerment.

    I don’t think I have just one most empowering moment. Now that I am 4 years out from Dday and 2 years post divorce, I have lived through the hell and made it to the other side, and have more strength, clarity and moxy than I ever did living with a deceptive cheater (don’t have the definitive proof, but he is NPD and a sociopath perhaps too). I think what I am getting at is that 4 years of battling and growth give you strength- it’s literally akin to strength training.

    So what I do today is never quite as empowering as what I did THEN, when I was scared, confused, and in my most vulnerable time. When you act strong for the first time…despite fear- THAT is an amazing accomplishment. So, today, I go back to my early days in hopes of lifting up some new Chumps that may be scared and wobbly and so, so sad. I say this. If you feel your spine wanting to fill with steel and stand up for yourself and/or your kids, then use that feeling to ACT on your behalf. Use it, like anger, to push forward toward justice and to show you that you value yourself.

    I was married with 4 kids for 26 years to a spouse who went to great lengths to tell me that he loved me completely and forever, and publicly acted like husband and father of the year. For me, the discard phase was VERY difficult. I did not have the real truth so private actions did not match public words. CL’s word mindfuck is spot on. I was on edge, in chaos, I heard A but felt B. I had the memories of great times, have weathered life’s and ups and downs and then I spackled it all away under “this is a tough time.” But eventually, I was saved the day I could “see” clearly, with his mask ripped off and when the injustice became so vile that my soul screamed for me to act.

    Two times that were most empowering were when I did not think it through or filter my reaction. I just said “Hell No” to a bully who was suddenly and so clearly the opposite of a loving spouse and who finally showed the contempt he had masked for so long. I remember the hate that came from his eyes and it was chilling.

    It was 24 hours post Dday (letter from OW telling me to release him- that he loved her and not me and I was keeping her from being with her soul mate) and I had the thought to ask if they always used condoms. The answer, “We did in the beginning, but then I didn’t think it mattered because I had a vasectomy.”

    I was infuriated. While he was packing his bags (since I kicked his ass out) I called my GYN in front of him and asked them to please get me in for testing- my husband has been with a Skank. He looked at me with daggers and no shame. I said, “What’s wrong, did I insult your girlfriend? What the hell is wrong with you. I could have a disease!” He said that she was not a skank; she was clean. What makes this exchange even more unreal is that in reality he had been with prostitutes and dozens of women- and GROSS ones at that. Also, he was paying upwards of $200 on a credit card for emergency STD tests at times for himself!

    The second time I felt empowered was about a month out. We were on the phone and he told me that I could not move (after we agreed I would go back with kids to the state where they were born and raised in). He changed his mind and thought he carried all the power. He screamed that I could not take those kids anywhere, to which I calmly responded, “This is happening.” He screamed and said you will not take them anywhere. I will quit my job and you will have nothing. I said, not true. He got lounder and more adamant- repeating that I would have nothing. Inside I grew calmer and stronger and just KNEW I would not crumble to a man who was abandoning me and his kids! (He was the breadwinner and mine was a secondary income and not a living wage for a family. ) He kept screaming and repeating You will have NOTHING. I said I would never have nothing because I would have what I will earn. He then said, “You will have to support me too because I won’t have a job.” I litterally chuckled and said, “That’s not how it works,” and I hung up on him.

    We both knew at that moment that it was a new day. No more would he push me around without a fight for justice. I wish I said something even stronger, but I was just too new to the fighting and holding firm that would be required so much in the next few years. It was really just a baby step, but I hung up and thought, you are going to battle and there is no other way to freedom for you and your kids. I was scared, but eerily sensed I had done something very brave.

    Newbies, or not so newbies, especially, this post is for you. The times in this battle that I faced fear and doubt and acted anyway because it was right, are the times that I am most grateful for. I hated the battle at the time and it don’t wish this journey on anyone, but if you’re on it, then let your self worth and integrity be your beacon forward. I also was very reliant upon my faith and spent much time in prayer, which was and is central to my healing. I am so grateful to Chump Nation, because when I found CL, I needed the reinforcement of her and the nation to give me the voice, the hope, and the encouragement. I read her column and just knew it was spot on to what I was feeling and what was true.

    I hope today that someone gets something from my post. I have not posted much and when I do, I always want to give something to pay forward what has been given to me. You are mighty, Chump Nation and I am forever grateful to you for the life you helped me gain.

    • Your story is incredible. You are brave, when it would have been easier to allow him to scare you into submission. To say with him even though you knew the marriage was over, and had been for a very long time. To take back your power, and not allow him to continue to make the rules, and make you believe that he was the best person that you would ever have. Kudos to you for walking, and not staying, with a list a mile long of reasons why you should. The bottom he did not respect you, and you deserved much more than that.

      • That was the bottom line, Queen B. He did not respect me and I no longer could respect or trust him so I could never dream of reconciling those intact. I knew it was over for me. Thanks for the reminder that I deserve more.