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Dear Chump Lady, My ex-wife has some weird requests

Dear Chump Lady,

It has been 4 years since we divorced. I found out she was on a dating site. She confessed she was dating a number of men. I moved out and have been focused on my kids and life.

I did not date, but decided recently to start dating as I have a lot to offer to the right person. I met some nice women lately and will only introduce the kids once I found the right person.

Last week my ex wife informed me she found a new guy that makes her happy and will introduce him to the kids. I wished her much happiness.

My ex wife then had a weird request. She asked me if we can go on holidays together and spend Christmas together, without her new man. I told her no. She got upset.

My ex wife than asked me if I was dating. I said yes. She asked me not to date a younger woman and not to have children as we have a family already.

Why is my ex wife of over 4 years having this bizarre request?

Thank you,

John G

Dear John G,

Because she lives on Planet Narcissist. It’s hard to understand her strange dialect, MEish, but what this freak is saying is “Have no other Gods before me.” (It’s not a request, John. It’s a demand.)

Let’s call your alien narcissist “Karen.” Karen expects you to build a shrine to Karen. Got some old wedding pictures? Good. Keep ’em up. That should scare off the potential girlfriends.

Next rule, have no life. Yes, Karen may date — but she is the Almighty KAREN. You sir, need to tend the shrine and keep Karen central in all things. (Hey, she needs a babysitter next Saturday. I know it was her week with the kids, but….KAREN Has Spoken!)

For four years you’ve been a good subject/human satellite/chump, but NOW you are dating? What?! This is a threat to kibble production. (Kibbles are the life force of Planet Narcissist.) Sedition! (See “Have no other Gods…”) Time to reel you back in as Plan B. Thus the vacation request (minus the boyfriend). We can all be one big cake-y family together!

Of course the ONLY family is the family in which Karen is central. So you may not make any false Gods (competing babies). She, of course, can make more babies.  But that’s just expanding the Karen brand (and colonies on Planet Narcissist). NOT YOU.

It’s exhausting the way Karen has to explain these things to do you, John. Ruling the universe is so difficult when the chumps get uppity.

What should you do, John?

Remember that you don’t live on Planet Narcissist anymore. There was an intergalactic revolt and you escaped to Planet New Life. Alas, in the chaos, you lost your Universal Bullshit Translator and don’t understand ME-ish.

However, pantomime may work. Gesture wildly at the Narcissist using your middle finger.

Hope she gets the message.

Enjoy that date, John.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • “There was an intergalactic revolt and you escaped to Planet New Life. Alas, in the chaos, you lost your Universal Bullshit Translator and don’t understand ME-ish.

    However, pantomime may work. Gesture wildly at the Narcissist using your middle finger.”

    LOVE it, LOVE it, LOVE it !!!!

  • Breathtaking display of entitlement and fucked up thinking going on there.

    Good advert for NC/LC…. Neither of you will ever know who the other is dating and she can’t ask you out for Christmas hoovering.

    Good on you for wishing her well – good for your soul and a Meh (you’re unimportant…) back to your Narc ex !

  • John G,

    Why are you sharing details of your life with this woman? Why are you talking to her at all? She betrayed you and broke up your family…she’s not someone who could/should be trusted with anything, not even your dinner plans for tonight! Go no contact as much as possible and gray rock for any necessary exchanges about the kids only. Don’t give this woman any space in your head or your life…she doesn’t belong there anymore and she certainly doesn’t deserve to know anything about you or your life. She sucks.

    • I wondered that too. What’s with all the chit chat? Easier for me my kids are adults, but your life is no longer any of her business.
      I guess I’m lucky because my ex shacked up with the schmoopie 2 years ago. She is a cheater, knows he’s a cheater….thinks she’s the woman that will change all that, but has my ex on such a short leash that he can’t even watch YouTube on the toilet without her thinking something is going on.
      The only gestures he made toward us having a “friendship” or “alternate relationship” were immediately following the discard and financially motivated.
      From the second my ex realized I had him all figured out he’s just gone ghost….no trying to be friends, just gone. I’m thankful.
      Stop talking to her, she’s your ex for a reason. As Chump lady says…..nothing to work with there.

      • Paintwidow,

        My ex-boyfriend, who I knew for decades, often told me throughout our ‘romantic’ relationship, that he loved me as a friend. He also became a passive-aggressive timid forest creature (wanted to run away, refused to talk to me, ghosted me) once I discovered his lies (even though I did not ‘beat him up’ over lying and mistreating me). So much for ‘loving me as a friend.’ My friends would never do this to me, and I would never do this to them. Most of the abusive, selfish topics of discussion here can’t stand people knowing who they really are under their sparkly facades.

    • Totally agree w you!

      The ex-bitch should be banished to Planet Grey Rock.

      My ex cheater wife asked me the same thing about her and I and kids sharing holidays and vacations together.

      ” no thanks” said in Planet Grey Rock voice

      • Me too at the first holiday after I moved out – thanksgiving 2016. She said the kids wanted it, which is probably true. I shut that shit down with “Ah, that ain’t going to happen, ever”. Her response, of course, is that I’m bitter and not emotionally or socially evolved like her or her new, enabling (loser) friends.

        The delusion of all playing happy family from time to time is astounding. She had at least 4 affairs – one long-term and still going on with a coworker that i have to report to (nice). Yet, right after d-day she wanted me to build (another) house at the end of our driveway or buy the house for sale two doors down the street (which I can’t even come close to affording on my own) so that we could still be close. I told her to butt out I will decide where my kids and I live. But, I’m the bad guy for not being mature enough to be friends after 4 d-days over 5 years (I’m more loyal than a golden retriever, unfortunately).

        While I am bitter and angry at her, the OM, and her enabler friends, I am so relieved that she, or her image management, is no longer my problem anymore.

        • Thanks, ForestfortheTrees, I needed to read that. This week is my first holiday sans Boss Hogg. He has tried once, reenacting the fall family mountain trip last month (my answer? “No.”), I was trying to go out of state w DD for Thanksgiving, but work is making it hard to do. I dread being in the same zip code as that arse.
          No. No play-acting for image management. No, a friend wouldn’t blow up my family like he did. We don’t resemble a friendship, though I was snowed before DDay(#3 over 31 years together) into thinking we were.
          Shutting that shit down feels SO.
          I still grieve the relationship I *thought* I had, but it was a mirage. For years.
          Thanks, CL & CN! The view from Planet Gray Rock is much more stable and peaceful, thank you.

        • Forest, I am glad to see you still around here. The buying-a-house-within-earshot of your ex is the height of narcissistic delusion. And I can totally appreciate the fact that you’re still steamed at supervisor-OM; that is a twisted man for her to pick to fuck. Fuck the cheaters and happy holidays, bro.

          • My ex told kids that he and the AP were going to move close to us so the kids could visit them more often (kids didn’t want to visit them often as both ex and AP were very disfunctional) …. I told the kids to let them know …..If I could see their roof from my house I would be rocking their roof every night…..I m a pretty accurate shot being a sports mad girl in my youth ….thankfully my ex knew I was serious and moved a suburb away …..never made one iota of difference. …kids only visited them when they absolutely had to.

            These days ex and AP broke up and kids still rarely see dad….he still doesn’t understand why. ….he thought it was only because of her…..he is still clueless on why they don’t see him

        • Narkles the Clown bought a house just blocks away from me. 2 years post divorce and he still does drive bys to see if I have someone over. Good for you shutting that shit down. It’s a hot mess machine and I can’t wait until high school is over for my son so I can move.

    • Don’t give them any space in your head.
      That is so true. Just 4 days ago my almost XH was texting me to try and wriggle out of the next 2 months payments on some shitty premise. When I texted back that I wasn’t going to accommodate his shit and I’d expect the money as usual I got 2 horrendously ranting texts back over it.
      Instantly this put me back to square one as he’s back in my head. I even felt maybe I was the one being selfish! That’s what these bastard narcs do to you. My friend pointed out that his whole text was blameshifting and I realised that was true but also realised how easy it was for him to jump back into my head and for my UBT to switch off again.
      In the same text he managed to blame me for the divorce and claimed it is a situation thrust upon him – like he bears no responsibility for his behaviour. He also claimed the divorce was all about me and what I wanted. Too fucking right mate, after 25 years of his narcisstic crap, the emotional and financial abuse and then discovering he’s been fucking everyone that moves in a 200 mile radius for the past 13 years, of course it’s now about what I want!
      At the same time he managed to complain that he still didn’t want the divorce (!) but he mentioned things were going well with his new partner(!). Talk about cake FFS!
      But it’s scary to think how easily he jumped right back in my head and made me feel like I was in the wrong and I should be flexible with payments!
      Am now rebuilding UBT and feeling more positive about pissing him off.

  • She still believes that her actions have no consequences: that she can have a devoted husband and intact family even through you’re divorced.

    And she’s still trying to avoid responsibility for this. Blame shifting. If you all won’t spend holidays together, she’s not responsible. No no, it’s YOU who refused to keep the family intact.

    It’s not what she did, it’s your reaction to it…Even now…divorced for four years.

    They don’t change. Ever.

    • Yup, same here. I was the one splitting the family up by going NC w ex.

      She didn’t acknowledge that her sleeping w my cousin was what broke up the family!

      • Excellent point, JC. Four years on and she’s still the same. In her mind she chose John and no matter what he is doing he will always be her puppet. So weird.

  • Send her back a list of “requests” about how she should live her life and see how that goes over.

    “On days that you are with our children, I request that you wear the enclosed T-shirt that reads: ‘My ex is dating and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.”

    “I request that you not date any men that have more hair, make more money, or a have a larger penis than I do.”

    You get the idea.

    • Get the responses ready UX! You know you will need them the microsecond KK finds out you’re dating!

    • That’s hilarious. But of course, if one is “no contact,” there is not an opportunity for requests.

    • That literally made me LOL. Ha, “I request that you not date any men that have more hair, make more money, or a have a larger penis than I do.”

    • If UXworld’s idea of creating “a list of requests about how the cheater should live their life” hasn’t been a fun Friday challenge yet, it should be. If it has, we should do it again. That would be entertaining.

  • I’ve got nothing to add to CLs awesome reply other than you should stop telling your ex anything about your life. It’s not any of her business as long as you’re not dating someone who would harm your children.

    As far as why she would make such a bizarre request? Because she can and because everything is all about her.

  • While they seek out new lives and new civilizations and boldly go where no one has gone before. Exploring all they missed out on and what they DESERVE, we should remain celibate and steady! Plan B! SAPs stability and paychecks!

    • Ain’t that the truth. Binding rules, vows, and societal expectations only work on others.

  • John G. – welcome to the shit show of co-parenting with “do what I say, not what I do.”

    When Mr. Sparkles left me and our son (and took my stepchildren with him) for the OW, he glanced back long enough to say that he wouldn’t introduce our son to her until they had been dating a year. He was true to his word, the irony being that his one year anniversary OVERLAPPED with our family vacation. Funny that.

    However, my teenage stepchildren were introduced to her right away because by God, he had needs and he had rights and it was his house afterall. They were 16 and 18 at the time and had been with us for 10 years. The 18yo started binge drinking and flunked out of college; the 16 yo graduated HS and went off to the first college she could find (and started binge drinking and flunked out). BUT, he was happy and isn’t that all that matters.

    The OW, after 2 years, was confronted with the realization that Mr. Sparkles likes options and still had his Adult Friend Finder ad seeking women/couples/groups going. She kicked his ass to the curb, but he only got as far as the local gym before finding Girl with Dogs. He introduced our son to her within six months. Why the hurry, you ask, because by the one year anniversary, he wanted to be moving into her house (typically narc parasite behavior).

    YET – he demands to MEET the man I choose to introduce to our son when the time comes. Delusional.

    We’ve been apart for 3 years now. I’m mostly no contact except for parental stuff and even that I manage through text or email (I like documents for court).

    My suggestion to you… get better at no contact. Until you are fully detached from your X-Wife, I don’t think any woman you date is going to get the best of you.

    Good luck!

    • Oh yes, I can’t wait for the demands to meet my boyfriend begin.
      This is my intended reply:

      You didn’t introduce me to your girlfriends when we were married, I’m not going to introduce you to my boyfriend now that we’re divorced.

  • Awesome! 😛

    When my ex decided to drop the kids off 10 minutes early one day, a male friend had just left the house and was checking his phone before driving off. My ex looked like he was about to go up in flames. How DARE I spend time with other men than him?!? I should be a good ex-wife appliance and stay home pining for him and care for our children. While he’s off fucking OW and most likely OTHER other women too. I got some snarky comment from him, which I totally ignored. The guy in question sent me a text message that he got some long stares from my ex, and those stares were shooting daggers. 😛

    • Yes, I had a male neighbor come to the door a few weeks ago, my kids were on Facetime with the ex, who lives 2000 miles away. I thought he was going to go up in flames and the iPad would explode! They’re all crazy. Stay the hell away from them!

        • My new man is such a gentleman, but I secretly wish he would walk up to ExAhole and whisper, “Thanks for being such an asshole to her. She gives the BEST blowjobs ever, yes?”

  • “Gesture wildly at the Narcissist using your middle finger.” Bwahahahaha! I love you, CL!

  • Four years post-divorce?

    By then, hoping it will have been four years since I have communicated with the STBX at all.

    Definitely enjoy that date and tell the Hoover ex to get gone.

  • Sorry so she gets to ask you for things after divorce when you didn’t even get the things you were promised during marriage?

    She’s allowed to go to the dick parade before you know there’s a problem, but she can dictate your actions after you two are done.

    Is this a joke? I would probably tell her I would try as hard as she tried at monogamy. See how much that makes her head spin. Maybe there will be some pea soup to boot.

    • “I would try as hard as she tried at monogamy. See how much that makes her head spin. Maybe there will be some pea soup to boot.”

      Excellent line! That made ME laugh! Bonus points for referencing The Exorcist.

  • Gross. That she feels entitled to be informed abbot your dating life, much less to dictate it. Grossgrossgross! It’s just so twisted. And, btw, those diffuse boundaries with a bitter narcissist will drive any sane, quality lady away real quick. Time to enact LC/NC and be a Gray Rock.

  • My ex would probably be thrilled if I started dating again because then he could imagine that he didn’t need to feel guilty anymore. That seems like a good reason to not tell him if I start dating. Let him suffer the guilt as long as possible. Or maybe not as guilt is really just another way for him to feel important. “:My poor ex wife is just a helpless mess since I left her.” Ok, maybe I will tell.

    I do remember him saying a few days after DDay when I was still shell shocked and couldn’t believe that all of this was happening “If you want to start dating, let me check out your suitors so that I can tell you whether or not they are good enough for you”. At the time all I could do was gape at him, but wow! Talk about arrogance. Like he would know what was good for me.

    • He doesn’t need to know. By spending time wondering about his reaction or lack of one makes him central. Just stop caring either way.

    • My almost XH narc has always had the audacity to claim he is ‘the real deal’ and that I would ‘not find anyone else like him’ ! He has fed me those two random lines repeatedly over 25 years. I’ve always wondered what the fuck he was going on about because he would drop these lines into any old conversation and never in context, always random. I have always thought ‘ who the fuck says that…? And about themselves..?’ But now I realise he’s a total narc it all makes sense.
      So, he thinks he’s the ‘real deal’? Yep- if you’re looking for a fucking nightmare!
      And I ‘won’t find anyone else like him’? Thank fuck for that!
      And the whole time he’s been fucking anyone he could get his grubby paws onto, running swingers parties in the local travelodge and even bringing sex partners into our home whilst kids at school and I’m at work.
      Their arrogance and entitlement is unprecedented.
      He is a total cockwomble.

  • It doesn’t how much we learn about these narcissists in theory the sheer sense of entitlement is still totally breathtaking when seeing it in practice.

    My cheater (never a single day faithful in 8 years) whose every spare moment was obsessively consumed with anyone and everyone who would show him any attention – thought I’d started seeing someone 3 years AFTER I threw him out. His response – “Yes I suppose we’ve both slept with other people done things we shouldn’t.” (!!!!)

    • Oh, for crying out loud. I would have hurled a torrent of sarcasm at him for that remark. They’re special, aren’t they. ????

      • Oh how I tried deedee. I’ve never known anyone so completely impervious to sarcasm, insults…..anything aimed at him. I’m not proud of just how much I upped the ante in an attempt to penetrate that weird Buzz Lightyear shield of protection he surrounded himself with. I even once told him one of his cheap, vulgar OW had laughed at his erectile dysfunction and asked me how I coped with it saying, “it was like going down on a blancmange.”
        Whoosh! It went straight over his head as it didn’t fit image he wants of himself so he just presses Reject button in his head

    • The disordered thinking on display in that sentence is mind boggling.
      They truly live in an alternate reality.

      • OMG they really do. I had to communicate with my STBX and he was crying, telling me in one breath how much he loves me, I’m his soul mate, love of his life, life partner, and in the next breath, he says he wants the divorce and to live apart, thinking about where he’s going to be moving, and still wants to be friends. After 26 years married, an affair (of course) and the cruelest discard you could ever imagine. He is absolutely insane.

        • Sounds eerily similar to both my ex-husband and my ex-boyfriend. In my fantasy, there is a planet just for these ambivalent abusers.

        • They are mentally not right. That same time of back and forth (often in the same conversation) about gave me whiplash. Trying to decode what is the truth or real feelings is pointless.

          • Yep, within the same sentence my almost XH managed to state that he still didn’t want this divorce, that it had been thrust upon him, yet everything was going ok with his new partner! WTSF?
            They are so screwed up in the head. They have no genuine sense of reality. No respect for anyone else but demand maximum respect from everyone else towards them even when they’ve been a total cheating, lying wank splat.
            The only thing he respected about me was my salary – which he managed to connive me out of – and he was living pretty much rent and bill free for our whole 25 year marriage.

        • Mine didn’t go that far but after he decided to leave me he was saying “oh, you’re so beautiful and smart and such a good person.” I asked “so why are you leaving me again?” No answer.

  • Responding to fears that the court would assume he was a bad guy and take away visitation, my now husband submitted to crazy demands for 12 years after the divorce….and then he started dating me who was rather set on us not acquiescing to the demands of the woman who abandoned him. She detests me now and I rather like that. When she finds out that were going to take their daughter to the Mediterranean next Christmas , she might blow a gasket, but we will be too far away to hear her.

    John, you will find an awesome women who appreciates you and is willing to put up with the mudslinging ex but DONT ever shush your new wife in fear that you might ruffle XWs feathers. 2 days before our wedding, we wherein the car and I was handling really important details on my cell and the D called her mom and I was shushed…never fucking again will that happen.

    • My ex-boyfriend didn’t shush me, but while still my boyfriend. he tried to NOT be seen in a group photo with me because supposedly, ‘He was afraid what his (cheating) ex-wife would think if she saw this photo on one of his friend’s social media page.’ WTF? I am 99.9% sure that he didn’t want my replacement, lover after me who worked with him, to know that he had a girlfriend. Extremely humiliating to me–And sadly, I still miss this guy!

  • Isn’t it funny how narcs behave ?
    My Ex, after cheating with 3 men, getting a divorce and marrying one of the 3 was absolutely furious when I remarried 5 years later.
    I think it is that my wife is younger, prettier, has a vastly better education and career and everyone likes her. Worst of all, I’m happy.
    SHE is no longer the center of the universe and even though she easily replaces people in her life, she goes nuts when she feels that SHE has been replaced.
    Keep away from the crazy is your best bet.

    • That irrational behavior is such a tip-off. It’s probably normal for divorced people to feel a twinge whtn the ex marries again. But to cheat and then 1-5 years after divorce to be angry that the chump remarries? That’s someone with delusional need for centrality.

      • My bio-dad was a huge cheater. Finally left my mom and three kids for one of his OW. My mom told me that a couple years later, when she married my stepdad (God rest his soul), bio-dad called her up and said, “Are you really marrying that guy?” and was all pissy about it. Keep in mind that he’d been living with his OW that whole time. The disordered never stop considering their former victims to be their possessions, even after years of separation.

          • Frightening but true…Ive whined about this here before, but my husbands XW convinced him to pay EVERY DIME of his daughters private school…and the XW instructed the office to add every single lunch, fee, extra or any possible expense and send him the bill which he pain in full. XW then tried to have him disinvited from all of the graduation events. So that could have read “I need you to pay all of daughters fees since you are her parent but you are not to expect to be treated as a parent at graduation.”

  • It is all about control. These cheating freaks want to still control you even after the divorce papers are final. Don’t give in.

    She gets no say in your dating life. That is a natural consequence of being divorced. If she really cared about her family, then she wouldn’t have cheated and blown said family up in the first place.

  • My X was and is still pissed that I started dating 18 months after he left. It was so weird to me, he treated me like garbage and tossed me away but I guess no one else was supposed to find any value in me either.

    • My ex who is a Captain on the fire dept here and a paramedic, and NEVER passes up an opportunity to tell you how awesome he is because he can save a life ( no disrespect to first responders, this was something very different.) was at a high school football game our daughter was marching in with the band and saw my boyfriend was there and went up and introduced himself.
      He said “ I’m Paintwodow’s ex. Good luck with her. She wasn’t the right girl l for me, but maybe she will be for you.”
      No shit.
      When I saw him later he described my boyfriend as “simple” because my boyfriend is a welder he said “he’s just a laborer….simple”
      My response? “He’s not simple. You know what else he’s not? A cheating asshole.”
      That “simple” welder has brought my kids and I more joy and laughs in 2 years than my cheating ex did in 20.

      • Jeebus, I heard something like this during the 2-day screaming match I had after my Xhole’s initial abandonment. Up to that point he had been actively making plans with me to buy a home in AZ and had just said “I want to spend the rest of my life with you” when we had taken a trip down there just 6 weeks before he moved out while I was on a work trip, sending me an e-mail fuck off.

        During the screaming he gave me the “I never loved you” crap again, denying all evidence of 31 years together. What am I supposed to do with that shit? Anything he said can be withdrawn from evidence, every event in our lives could be wiped away. So passive aggressive, he would look me in the eye and say one thing and then go away mad and resentful.

        I said I needed a guy who wasn’t such a goddam emotional rubiks cube, a guy who actually says what they mean. His reply? “Yeah, you need some emotionally shallow idiot!”

        He thinks he is so special because he lies and hides his feelings. The Superior One is going to die alone.

      • Anyone who derides someone because of their profession in life is a Grade-A fuckstain. Your partner sounds like an awesome guy, and not an arrogant son of a bitch like your ex.

        And there’s nothing wrong with “simple” – especially when the opposite is a guy who can’t keep his dick out of other women. Or go up to their ex’s new partner and say what he did – if it were me, I would have punched him in the face for being such a holier-than-thou shithead.

  • Wow. That sounds a lot like me when my now ex left.
    “Could you not date? (Since we’re still married)
    “Did you knock her up? Get a paternity test.” Because really it DOES piss me off that now he’s got a new kid after our daughters…. and that he said he didn’t want anymore kids, when the truth is he didn’t want anymore with me.

    In my defense, I’ve not asked to have vacation together since he moved out last fall.

    • Oh, he didn’t want any more kids with her, either, but that was the price of the new kibble supply. It’s not like kids mean to him what they mean to you.

      • ^^^THIS^^^
        When my ex and I were dating, I told him I wanted kids and that if he didn’t we shouldn’t proceed any further. He exclaimed how much he had always wanted kids, wanted to make a me mother, etc. Turns out he didn’t; it was just the “price for admission “. He was never involved in their lives, didn’t have any kind of a relationship with either one and promptly abandoned them when Schmoopie came into the picture.

        • YES! YES!

          I broke off my relationship with my ex-boyfriend because I wanted kids and he didn’t. I never begrudged him this, since this was a shift in my mentality. When I got together with ex-narc, I told him that I wanted children, and I wasn’t afraid to end a relationship if that wasn’t something he wanted. Oh no! He’d love to have a few more kids, since his evil ex wife had so cruelly taken away his boys. (Turned out he signed over the parental rights because he didn’t pay child support)

          Anyway, fast forward a few years, and we were in a committed relationship and I bring up the whole having a child thing. He’s on the fence. I push and he agrees. (I know, hind sight, it should have been a red flag) We have one. He says: Ok, now we’re done right? Um, no… I wanted childREN. Not a child. I’ve said this from the beginning. I wanted at least 3. So, I get pregnant with the second child. And that’s I think when he discarded me, but I danced the pick me dance for 5 years, trying to figure out what the fuck I was doing wrong.

          OW also wants multiple children, but only has one. Ex had a vasectomy after our last child was born. Not sure if he’s reversed it or not… We’ll see if he’ll pay the “price of admission” one more time.

          And it’s sad that human beings, in this case their own children, are pawns.

    • Sunflower36. Did this mean you did not want the relationship to end hence the request? In my situation she is dating other men while making the request so I find it hard to see she wants the relationship.

  • Dear John….

    There is a reason she is an ex. She’s fucked up. She’s nuttier than a Port-a-John at a Peanut Festival.

    Don’t allow this Douchebag into any aspect of your life. Sharing kids is difficult, but texting is the greatest invention ever. You don’t have to talk to this Psycho about kids, there is a record of every conversation, and you don’t have to engage.

    Go do as you please with your life. Fuck her. Spent your energy making yourself happy and possibly some other woman. Who knows, you and her may want to have more children. Until then, practice makes perfect, Son. Make that new woman scream so loud that the neighbors call the cops.

    • I’m not a texting fan. It’s too easy for people to be reactive (including chumps) or intrude on your life. Scheduling software and email are safer. But having conversation? No way.

    • SuperDumperChump –

      Your comment of “She’s nuttier than a Port-a-John at a Peanut Festival” made me laugh so hard my sides still hurt. Thanks! Was much needed this fine Monday with initial custody hearing in 1.5 weeks.

      The value and insight of CL and CN have saved me many days!

  • Dear John G, all I can say is who the fuck does your cheating exwife think she is telling you to not procreate and who to date or not. Those are not only weird requests, but extremely oppressing and downright inhuman. I thought we lived in a free country, why doesn’t she castrate you while she’s at it and chop your balls off or pull a Lorena Bobbitt on you. Your ex-wife is one hell of a messed up person. I’m even wondering if she’s ever been normal.

  • The holiday request is definitely strange. However, let me give ypu another perspective on having more children. If your children are young, go for it. If they are older, think it through. Mine are 17 and 24. We have been divorced little over a year. After ex announced he was bringing a fiance over on a K-1 visa, he let slip that he was considering a vasectomy reversal, as schmoopie is much younger. Our boys are mortified. He never did the the work to fix his relationships with them and now he wants a do over. Younger son has completely shut him out over it. Frankly, I think it would be hilarious to watch him screw up all over again work like a dog to support this new family, but it is downright embarrassing for my my young men. He technically could be a grandpa and new father simultaneously. I also have a half brother and sister, from my father’s second marriage. We are close in age. I adore them, but my childhood was not a happy one. Consider your children in these decisions.

    • I think it’s horrible to bring a new child into this world when your morals are such that you’re ok with abandoning the first ones.

      The Can of Alp-Ho got knocked up before she was divorced from her husband, but living with my ex. I truly feel sorry for that poor girl (yeah, it’s a girl. He wanted a boy so bad he could taste it and I failed to deliver one who lived.) having Two fuckwits for parents. And I feel bad for my girls knowing the relationship between their sister’s parents is doomed to implode.

  • Oh good Lord, they were all made from the same mold weren’t they. I have told this story before but my ex ran off with his fat-ankled little skank over Christmas 2010. It was the worst period of my life because although I was delighted to be out of his violent orbit every 3 weeks or so the Twat and the Skank would have a kindergarten handbag-slapping fight and he would move “back home ‘cos it’s still my home”. Skank would call up 3 days later and he would move back out again. I was determined that I was going to continue to go out so one night took myself to my favourite little restaurant with my book. A couple of days later ex commented how “sad I must be to have to go to the restaurant alone” (the owner knew him and he and his band of ugly social rejects used to go there after boozing all night at the OK Corrall. So I thought “screw you mate” – I had a gorgeous Tunisian friend – tall, slim and 18 years younger than my ex, so I invited him to dinner one night “on one condition”. He played his part so well, was all over me and we spent the entire evening laughing our heads off because he was just a friend. Never heard a peep from the Twat after that.

    A few months after the Twat left one of my colleagues started pestering me to go out with him. I kept refusing but as I had known him for 30 years and liked him eventually I agreed. Ex then pumped our boys about who the new squeeze was. When they found out he was one of the top dogs in our VERY large organization I got a furious phone call (I should never have answered) about “trust you pick up with the CEO, but then I’m not like you, I can’t sleep around”!!!!!!! I just burst out laughing at that point, but have made a point ever since not to ever give him any information on my personal life and have warned the kids to do the same.

    John, the others are right, go as no contact/grey rock as you can (although I have to admit I find it funny actually what complete and utter delusional pricks they all are)!

  • As the paperwork slowly winds it’s way to her, and she is clueless about what’s coming, I get to hear an insane amount of stupidity. “I don’t want to be married to you, but we should laugh and have fun because we enjoy each others company. If you can’t do that, I’ll fuck you in court.” Everything she says and does is a lie and a threat and a manipulation. I’ve never hated another human being IRL more. Tells me to grow up and be a role model? Why? Because I won’t discuss anything with her except money or kids. That’s not enough. No, I have to allow her to pretend I think she’s fun too. She’s not, she’s a pig. I just wish the courts weren’t insane. This is insane. To be penalized for doing the right thing is insane.

    • So sorry you have to hear her threats and intimidation, DunChumpin. She sounds evil. Sending hugs and support. I hope you’re through with her soon.

    • I couldn’t agree more. The cost to get free from the insanity and to put these decisions in a court’s hands (who glances at your file and listens for a day or two) is insanity on top of insanity.

    • Hmmm. I remember that I used the old “it’s not healthy for me to speak to you” line (truth) so that when X and I were in the divorcing stage he would think it meant I was just sad. I didn’t elaborate that the moment I found out that he was a pathological liar and cheater I lost ANY love or even good feelings towards him and would and that I had zero intention of remaining “friendly” (otherwise known as ”Cakely” )which I knew he wanted.
      BUT, I didn’t get the parenting app until after the divorce…it helped that he had that tiny bit of guilt underneath the rage and pity channels. I am convinced it helped a bit in the divorce. He knows what I really meant now;)
      So, I guess why I am saying this…if he knew I hated him as much as I did (I am getting to indifferent almost a year out from the divorce car being final) it would have made things even harder than they were. It gets so much better after the divorce is final! Good luck to you!!

    • “I’ll fuck you in court,” she said? Ewwwww; yuck. I’d get an STD test sooner than later Dun. That’s a nasty ho you married. Sorry, dude.

  • My cheating narc ex-husband managed to scare off a few men, including my now ex-boyfriend , who probably would have abandoned me in the end anyway. Upon last discard of me, my ex-boyfriend told me that he didn’t want me to pine for him by the phone on Friday nights. The arrogance. And everyone thinks he’s the smart, humble nice guy who is everyone’s friend. Not. I made sure to never contact him on a Friday night for anything as I did not want to give him the satisfaction. And hey, I have a million important noble things to do instead. I hope that I can soon consistently re-focus my energy away from the latest A–clown and toward worthwhile issues.

    The OP’s ex apparently wants to win the Narc Olympics. She sounds like a strong contender!

    • No contact is your best friend. I’m lucky enough that Jackass discarded me so it was not an effort. You are doing so well. Let ex BF wonder what you are up to and why you don’t call.

      • Thanks for your support, LAJ. Glad you put a positive spin on your cheater ex leaving.

        I am sure that my ex-boyfriend does NOT even think about me (after his second discard of me). He told me that he does NOT want to talk to me right now (because one weekend I calmly stated that he lied (repeatedly without pressure to lie) and did other unethical things?) I think that his conscience was bothered and I triggered cognitive dissonance in him by merely stating the truth. What was I supposed to do? Pretend he did not lie to me. Say, ‘At a boy! Thanks for lying!’

        Beside, he’s too busy romancing/screwing my replacement with whom he works (his subordinate). The first time he discarded me, over a year ago, he never contacted me in our four-month ‘break.’ We reconciled for Big Mistake on My Part, Part II, at my initiation. The couple of women he dated very briefly during the break rejected him with no more than a good night kiss, according to him. (This is one time I think that he was telling the truth as if they hadn’t rejected him, he would not have reconciled with me.) He now probably spends more time deciding whether to put his trash in the recycle bin or non-recycle bin than what the heck I am doing (even if its ending homelessness, inventing a cure for cancer, becoming a multi-millionaire, supermodel). He just leaves me on the floor…I hope against hope that I can stop crying (preferably soon) over this self-serving, devaluing liar.

  • Basically this; She sees little to no problem in the hurt, damage and inconveniences you have suffered through her actions. I mean, she might ‘know’ that what she did was wrong, but not in a meaningful way where she actually cares and changes her actions. She wants freedom to do what she likes without a damn for the consequences.

    She sees lots of problems, however, when you do stuff that hurts, damages and inconveniences her. Even though, by the unwritten rule of broken contracts, you owe her sweet fuck all, she doesn’t want you to have the freedom to even get on with a normal life.

    So despite fucking up your life, in her view you still owe her.

    This is a flashing red light that she is a damaged, narcissistic, self absorbed asshole. If at all possible, I would tell her to get fucked.

    If you can’t afford to let the relationship go sour for the sake of the kids, then I would just gently say that it’s unreasonable for her to try and put such constraints on your life, that you have not made any such requests of her, and that if you did, you wouldn’t expect her to agree.

    • My own nearest experience by the way was my cheating wife asking me not to divorce her, and not to see anyone else, while she ‘figured out’ what she wanted. I asked her how long she needed and she said she didn’t know.

      So there I was, looking at an unknown period of time, stretching onwards into the ether, waiting for a woman who’d just told me that she didn’t know if she wanted to be with me anymore to make up her own mind about what she wanted. Me parked on the sidelines for her convenience.

      I followed my own advise and told her to get fucked.

      • When one party unplugs from the relationship and wants “time” to re-think and figure things out, it’s time for the other party to leave and stay gone.

      • This was also what I got, with the additional mindfuck of being 6 months pregnant.

        Turns out, “I need to spend some time thinking about if I still want to be married to you, so let’s just keep going until the baby is born,” actually means, “Let me spend the rest of your pregnancy risking my job and our health insurance planning my exit with Schmoopie at work while you pick me dance, grow my baby, and watch my toddler at home.”

        It’s all about them, and fuck everyone else.

        • Exactly. Best thing to do is shut ’em out.

          Really sorry about your situation. There is a special place in hell for men who leave their pregnant partner, what an utter bastard.

          Tangential, but someone confided in me the other day that my STBX (almost, almost there!) apparently is really troubled by how unbothered she thinks I am by the whole thing. Yup, that’s right… she isn’t happy… because… i’m not upset enough! (I am, I just recognize that she gets off on the emotion…. so, access denied).

          • Yeah, my IC keeps encouraging me to confront him with how his actions have hurt me, but I swear he gets stronger and more entitled every time I do.

            If we care, they get to feel important and central again. CL’s road to Meh really is the path to enlightenment.

            I’m so sorry this happened to you, too. The betrayal during pregnancy adds a particular flavor, for sure, but we’re all served the same basic shit sandwich of having invested in someone who didn’t invest back. I’m sending you thoughts of a happy new life, and maybe some of my excess snark if you need it.

            • I have to say (thinking about your 2nd paragraph), there are many ways in which I would not take this experience back for the world. It’s been hard, heartrending, I’ve screamed, shouted, cried in the corner, wanted to die. I will always carry a scar. And yet, 8 months on, I feel like a better person for the whole damn experience. Maybe not happy – yet…but… I feel like I know myself in intimate ways that I’d have never explored without this experience … and I feel like that knowledge allows me to be true to myself and what I want from life. Learning to stand up for yourself, stop someone exploiting you, & to put your boundaries in place, is what CL teaches, & is what you correctly describe to the path to enlightenment. That’s a very astute observation on your part!

              Thanks for the thoughts (and snark)! You have the same from me in return!

              • As much as it is horrible to be the betrayed spouse, we can grow and rebuild and be better from it, they – on the other hand – suck …and there is no way around it.

                I was manipulated, abused and cheated on but I have a great life now. My cheater died and his deeds are for him and God to work out. I most certainly NOT trade him places.

            • You do NOT give a Cluster B any ammunition in regards to your feelings – they will get emboldened on that shit. Your IC sounds like a jackarse, personally.

            • Don’t waste your time telling them! I did it with my xh and he used it against me. I fell for a fake reconciliation in which I did and allowed basically everything he wanted no matter how awful or used it made me feel while he was happily planning his exit. Me telling him how I felt was more ammo for later.

            • “Yeah, my IC keeps encouraging me to confront him with how his actions have hurt me, but I swear he gets stronger and more entitled every time I do.”

              Time for you to find a new therapist who has at least heard of this disorder called narcissism, and who actually listens to their clients’ lived experiences. Confronting a narc gets people hurt. Hence what they are suggesting you do is hazardous to your health and well-being.

          • Good for you Mighty Chris!

            It’s just unbelievable when they are upset that you are moving forward when they caused the relationship to fail!

        • NotToday, I was 6 months pregnant too when my STBX left and then kept waffling back and forth about staying or going. It wasn’t until a month after my daughter was born that I found out about him screwing around that whole time. They suck.

        • I’m ashamed to admit that I let him have a few days, to decide if he wanted to work on our marriage. I later found out that he didn’t spend those few days thinking about us. He spend them introducing teenage schmoopie to his parents. I am thankful though that when he returned and told me he couldn’t not see schmoopie again, I told him I wasn’t going to beg and so we would seperate. I mentioned divorce and he said he was not ready for that yet. I got myself a solicitor soon after and told him I was filing. His reaction made me at the time think he really cared. Now I know that he was just pissed that his plan B was not playing by his rules. He had already told me that it might not work out with schmoopie and I had said I hope you don’t think I’m going to wait for you.

          • Nothing to be ashamed about. We’d all like to be the strong one who tosses them out along with their possessions as soon as we find out what we’re dealing with, but the reality is that it doesn’t work that way.

            I always thought that’d be me – any nonsense and it’d be over. But if you’re a healthy, balanced human, it’s actually hard to turn off feelings and emotions. That stuff is hardwired into your brain chemistry, thats how you’ve formed a bond to begin with. It takes a while for the chemistry to catch up with the reality. Some people never really manage it (because they don’t give themselves the distance required to break that bond).

            So, to be ashamed of this is to be ashamed of your body’s perfectly natural physiological reactions. That just doesn’t make sense. You’d have to have an unbelievably iron will to have been able to overcome that in the early days, it’s entirely unreasonable to expect of yourself. I’m telling you this as someone who had to give the above pep talk to myself, to be OK with not having been stronger.

      • The unmitigated gall of these twits to think a chump is going to sit around and wait for them to “make up their mind” whether they are going to do what they already promised to do, makes me crazy. Good for you MightyChris is shutting that shit down. Geez… entitled much??

        • My ex-boyfriend. after knowing me for a few DECADES, wanted me, loyal madly in love-with-him chump, to give him a weekend to decide whether to stay with me or not (second time he left me for other women) as he ‘had a lot to do at work.’ I later found out that he had SOMEONE, not something, to do at work!

  • John, your ex doesn’t just want centrality, she wants triangulation. Badly. And she wants you to teach the new fellow the Pick Me Dance.

    Just say no.

    • Oh, hell yes. This is exactly the game. Imagine her new BF stewing over a family “vacation” with the XH. That’s quite a pick-me dance.

  • What I don’t get is why chumps get the divorce and still communicate with the cheater beyond what’s needed for raising kids, which can be done primarily by calendar, email or scheduling software. I get it why people with kids think text and phone are necessary, but how many emergencies are there, really? And these conversations about what the divorced cheater wants are lunacy. That option was ended with divorce. If the cheater is making crazy demands (like “let me move back in” years after the divorce or “don’t have any more kids with your new wife”), it’s because you left the kibble cupboard open. Shut the cupboard door. Lock the house (metaphorically and of course literally). And communicate in the mode that is most remote for the purpose. Kiddo is in the hospital? Phone. You are held up in traffic? 5-word text (Wreck on parkway. ETA 6:15). Anything else? Dedicated email or OFW. Ex wants a conversation? Cut that off and say, “Email me.” She continues to talk? “Email me” and walk away.

    You are in charge of your own life. The Exs opinions no longer matter. And “no” is a complete sentence.

    • Great post LAJ, as usual. “Do Not Leave The Kibble Cupboard Open”. That note should be on every Chump’s fridge. In fact, throw some gas on the kibble cupboard and light a match. Be done dispensing kibble for all time. We’re all better than that.

    • I’m with you on this LAJ! Your advise is always spot on.
      Best thing I ever did (besides find CN/CL and hire a bad ass atty) was to set my boundaries and not text (unless a medical emergency for the kids) with the STBX Tweaker. He’s tried to trick me a few times but I’m holding to my boundaries. Emails are so much better to track and reference. Especially since his memory sucks (too many drugs/lies/delusions) and he likes to twist things around on me. I can respond when I’m not emotional and on my own time. It’s the little things that make this chump happier day by day!

  • Thank you all for your comments and help. No contact it is other than matters pertaining to the kids. And, no sharing information on my life.

  • The disordered freak out when their former victims move on. On the day I married nice guy, my ex posted a long, weird, rambling pity party on Facebook, saying that I was “the only woman who had ever really loved him” and that I was a “wonderful woman” but he knew his future was bright, although it was “bittersweet” that I was marrying someone else. His post was accompanied by a photo of the two of us at our wedding. That post got ex TONS of likes and comments from his fan club, which of course was all he really wanted anyway. I know all this only because one of my SILs showed me the post; I have ex blocked on Facebook.

    Just a couple months later, he got engaged to a woman he had only known for six weeks. She’s supporting him now, LOL.

    • Damn, GIO. What a horrible waste of human flesh that dude is. On your wedding day he posted on Facebook? Between all the Russian money and family racism I deleted my Facebook this summer and it’s bliss.

  • Here’s the rub, often those of us who marry or are involved with narcissists have co-dependency tendencies. It’s a common pairing, some therapist’s explain it to our client’s that our adult relationships are subtle, or not, emotionally similar to those we grew up with. If we grew up in emotional chaos or with emotionally absent parents we replicate the dynamic with our spouse or partner. Dysfunction is normal and these relationships have permeable boundaries. When we continue to be involved with our ex’s in talking to them and sharing tidbits of our lives either directly or indirectly with them we get a pay out. This is not intentional on our part. I’d encourage you to examine your unconscious motivations to be in contact with your ex after four years. What do you get, good or bad, emotionally when she comes back around? Yes, you feel crappy, sucked in, re-victimized. Deep down, do you believe you deserve those feelings and is that why you subconsciously keep your boundary permeable? I think you deserve better. A mantra regarding your self worth. Close the boundary gate and throw away the key. You are in control.

    • Good “diagnosis.” The codependency keeps us attached. But we also stay attached because trauma and abuse for brain reasons I don’t understand create a bond. Chumps need to work hard at recovering from the trauma, cutting the bond, and recognizing old codependent patterns to stop them.

    • oooh thanks for this, wee alarm bell of recognition ringing in my head. Time to step back

  • GetMeFree,

    Our timelines match up almost exactly (my baby was 7 weeks old on final DDay). God, it sucks so bad to be caring for a newborn while your world falls apart. I’m so sorry that happened to you. You and your daughter deserved better.

    WTF is wrong with them? How hard is it to be a fucking grown-up and put your kids first?

    • NotToday and GetMeFree,

      I’m so sorry for the hell you ladies endured.

      I ask myself every day WTF is wrong with him as my daughter was 3.5 months when he walked out. My son was 7 at the time. The are such selfish assholes! He was cheating on me for at least 3 years and I refused to believe the signs and warnings. I was stupidly loyal. I was trying to trust the one person that was never going to tell me the truth.
      Trying to pick yourself up and move forward while carrying for the little ones, that need us more than anything. is a testament to being stronger than one should have to be.

      Stay mighty ladies. You are amazing!!!

  • John G…..
    Your ex is still under the assumption that you CARE what she thinks! She thinks that she is far smarter than you and that you need help with your life decisions. Cheaters THINK they are far superior than us chumps. Show her who you have become since she decided to bail on her commitment to you. It sure sounds like you have your shit together and you have a healthy self esteem. GOOD FOR YOU! Please do not pay any attention to her and her demands. Your life is yours to live.

    My ex didn’t like me dating his affair partners ex and followed me when I would meet up with him for a date. He told me that I was too good for his affair partners ex…..”he’s just a farmer and you can do much better than that”. I say the measure of a man is more than his check book. What I eventually came to realize is that my ex was worried about me finding my new man was far better than him!! Go live your life and shut her up with your happiness!!!

  • If (John G) you imagine the thrill of having “power” over YOUR life decisions as a decadent dessert, and the ridiculous restrictions on your choices and life plan as additional kibbles to top the dessert — you can see how asking you to put your life into a continual orbit around the centrality of importance that is her life is so DELICIOUS!!! Narc Dessert! So wonderful you don’t even need whipped cream!

    I think they believe we never really get over them, and will always sit waiting in the wings as their fallback plan. It always amused me that my Ex#1 was so concerned about MY actions and plans with any potential suitor — and “how it would influence the boys,” but he could do any heinous thing he wanted to do, because I had no right to “tell him how to live his life.” Double Standard? Hmmmm. Maybe the truth of the matter was that the boys knew they could depend on their mother to make decisions that would always include protecting and caring for them, but they had no such expectation for their dad? He might forget to pick them up, or let the date du jour convince him their plans were more important than the plans and commitments he had made to and with his sons. At any rate, I admire my sons for being able to see their dad as he really is, and yet find a way to still maintain a relationship (of sorts) with him simply because he is their dad.
    With my dad — I had to limit contact because he was toxic for me. With their dad, his toxicity blows back on him, because the boys do not depend on him for anything. He either does what he promises, or not, they do not plan on any follow through, or depend on it. If he does well — good, they reap the benefit. If he doesn’t follow through, they write off the loss. They are much better at it that I ever was.

    Someone commented earlier that dysfunction learned in the family of origin prepares one to expect it in later life. I agree — but fortunately, once I learned about the disorder of narcissism I was able to figure out how to mostly disengage from the malignant narc father, and then teach myself how to disengage from the Ex-husband(s) and to pass along some of the knowledge to my sons. They learned much younger than I did, and I think it has given them the opportunity to live a much better life.

    John G needs to learn the lessons and pass them along to his children. His ex-wife is NEVER gong to change, and when he stops being fun for her, she will move on to the children. Probably already has.

  • Omg, my ex did almost this exact same thing…told me, “Don’t you go getting into another relationship…,”as he’s fucking his AP while we’re still married and he told me to move on.
    I remember thinking, “Yes, Daddy…”
    Think I posted this on another CL article.
    I can’t believe the audacity and hypocrisy…Fuck That Shit!

    • They are ALL the same ! Mine went off for his affair running up ccdebt while giving me instructions not to sell the ‘jewels’ (as if i had a vault full of gems) so could pay bills as he left us with actually nothing. He wanted to make sure all our assets were divided fairly. I think the tables were rigged when he left after remortgaging the house twice.

  • Hi All, I would appreciate some advice. My divorce is final next Monday. STBX never came back to house to collect his tools and stuff. The divorce says whatever is in our possession at time of divorce is that persons. He is not showing up to court as he is on VACATION. Should I offer him an opportunity to get his stuff or get rid of it through giving to so sons, selling, donating etc.

    • Nope. As my attorney told me during my divorce – no more “wifing” for your STBX. It’s not your responsibility to wife for him (aka make life easier on him) anymore. He knows the terms of the divorce as well as you do. If he’s too stupid or lazy to come and get his stuff in the time specified, it’s no longer his stuff and you can dispose of it as you choose.

      And congrats on the impending divorce. My second divorciversary is tomorrow (actually the 25th but the final hearing was on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving so that’s when I celebrate) and life is much better without that 270 pounds of cheater hanging off me. 😀

      • One of the hardest early lessons to learn Beth – no more ‘wifing’ (or in my case, husbanding). Your attorney did you a solid with that advise!

        1st week I found myself doing stuff I used to absentmindedly do out of kindness. Like shopping for food for us both. Slapped myself when I realised what i’d done, and got myself out of that habit pronto!

    • No legal expert but if he’s been given the court date and has chosen either not to attend or send a lawyer in his stead then I think those tools become yours. That’s his choice.

      Sometimes though it’s easiest just to give them their crap if it makes them go away (and also gives them less ammunition to play victim with …. not that they usually need any help).Depends how much you give a fuck, and how much of a “fuck you” mood you’re in. Personally i’d grey-rock give them… So, no response if you get a thank you, etc, not allowing it to become a segue into contact.

      It might be more emotionally satisfying to sell em and tell him you tossed them in the trash or gave them to a new boyfriend, but then you may have to deal with a Raging Bull(shitter).

    • Oh man . . . so tempting to do whatever the fuck you want with them.

      You know your situation better than we do. Would YOU get any honest benefit out of setting them aside for him to pick up within a stated timeframe convenient to you? Lessened likelihood of outrage, shielding kids from bitterness down the line? If not — and you need to be clear with yourself that there’s no benefit to YOU — you should do whatever you want with them by way of removing them from YOUR home.

      He’ll lash out that he “trusted you” (“poor, poor cheater-me!”) and that getting rid of the stuff while he was on vacation just shows that you’re bitter, angry and unable to move forward in a mature way. I say: Fuck that. Consequences.

      He signed a legal agreement by which he (AND you) must abide. He screws up and there are consequences? Cry me a river and shove it up his ass.

      • Thanks! Would love to shove each and every tool up his ass! have to think about this. He already is crying and whining about how he “lost everything”. Of course my retort is you LEFT everything. Choices. Such a cry baby. Think I’ll just stay grey rock and not do anything until my one yr dday. If he hasnt asked by then-bye bye tools etc. when he does ask, I’ll see how pissed I still am! The way I feel now, there are many people who need good tools cheap!

        • Keep the good tools!

          Put the rest on the front step or side of the house or whatnot and text him that he has until Monday to pick them up and where they are. Purging feels gooooood. I would actually wait until he gets back from vacation, to be honest. You’ll feel better about it in the long run. If he doesn’t show up, then you have record (maybe go ahead and email him, too) that you DID inform him and that it was his choice to leave everything. If he protests that he CAN’T by Monday, then maybe ask him when works for him–it needs to be withing the month–then THAT is his deadline. Sure, I’m being nice, but you’re not expecting anything in return. I would DEFINITELY not be around when he comes by or says he’s going to come by. Do not help him load a thing.

    • Thrive

      He has had ample time to get his stuff. Divorce takes a long time. He planned his vacation knowing that. I say change the locks and keep the stuff. I’ve found tools to be very handy… I did and slowing threw his things out, packaged some for kids, traded some for labor on my house…

    • Thrive, my STBX wanted me to ‘inventory’ all the shit he left behind in the garage so he could pick and choose. Fuck THAT! No wifing. He also wanted 1/2 the proceeds of a ‘garage sale’ I was going to have. Fuck THAT! He had ample time to get anything he wanted. I sold the house and the weekend before I moved, I had a sale, ‘giveaway’ to family/friends/neighbors and had called ‘EcoHaul’ to take away everything else. A year is a long time to have all his crap around. I’d get it GONE asap. I’d like to say rent a storage unit, pay for one month and put it all in there for him to deal with, but that’s too much work and ‘wifing’. You don’t need to make it so easy for him. Congrats on the Divorce!!

    • He wants you to do the work of moving his shit out for him. And then when you do, he wants to play victim.

      Suggestions on how to handle that, Chumps?

    • I’d email him (so it’s in writing) and say that he has until the divorce day to pick up what he wants (he can send his friend, family or lawyer if he wants) and if he doesn’t, the law stands and none of it’s his anymore. Then, I’d treat it all as mine (since they are, legally) keep what I wanted and dispose of the rest how I wanted (sell, dump, donate).

      If he whines about it, say “you knew what would happen and you made your choice – it’s not my fault you regret it.” Repeat as necessary.

      Personally, I’d keep the tools – you always need tools.

  • When I met my present partner, who is a fellow chump, he had been divorced 12 years. He explained at the time that he had never had.a serious girlfriend sine the divorce “because his ex didn’t want any strange women in her children’s lives”. He seemed to think it was easier to comply with her wishes than “wake the dragon”.

    She, on the other hand, was the town bicycle by all accounts, and often had men living in the house with the children.

    When I came on the scene, I had some CN sense and challenged him gently as to why he still took her abusive, controlling texts, emails and calls without shutting her down. It seemed to be his fear of her alienating the kids from him. She had done a pretty thorough job of that already. Sometimes pushing back on these loonies carries a cost.

    So, when the youngest turned 21, I suggested that was the time to make a move. All three as adults could make their own assessments of their Dad, and they have. They now come around and are on good terms with him and with me. They are glad he has a partner. The cheating ex has been told to feck off and stop communications. Her reaction was a series of thermonuclear scenes which I found comically awesome.

    These kids are only just realising what a complete freak their mother has been through the years. We say nothing about her, but occasionally they let slip some gem about her latest crazy histrionics.

  • Lovebombing, John. It’s called “lovebombing.” And take it from me. Even though I was dating and having sex with other women, when MatchGirl came lovebombing, I tried valiantly to ignore it, but I eventually fell victim. The only remedy? Deep No Contact.

    I don’t have any advice, John, only a sense of commiseration. Keep the faith, Man.

  • I think this is quite common. It happened to a friend of mine – she met and married a really decent guy who’d been divorced a while. His wife had had an affair, I think, and had left him and married the affair partner. The original couple had two lovely kids, who lived mostly with her.

    Anyway, my friend started dating him, and ExWife started laying down the law about What Kind Of Person Is This Woman?, and when their kids could meet her, and under what circumstances, and basically variations on the theme of How Dare You Move On.

    Then when my friend and he became pregnant, it was more of the same. How Dare You Move On.

    The middle finger has been liberally applied in her general direction, to the new couple’s satisfaction.

  • “However, pantomime may work. Gesture wildly at the Narcissist using your middle finger”

    LOVE IT!!!

  • I find myself becoming envious of the many women here with exes who have no interest in their kids’ lives and just fuck off. That would be an absolute dream come true for me.

    • On the one hand, it’s so lovely in lacking stress of hearing/seeing the ex. But on the other hand, it’s so sad for the kids. I know it hurts and confuses them. They’re adults, but it’s still disappointing and just sad.

    • Sometimes I also think it would have been easier on me if he had just left and not cared about being a dad to his kids. Then I would not have to feel so alone in the discard. I love my kids, however, and I know it is better for them that he cares so I have to be happy about it for their sakes. I don’t want them to hurt the way I do. Of course they are still hurting because of the break up of the family, but a least there is less of a feeling of discard for them.

  • I saw a lovely quote the other day that I have printed and hung on my wall…

    A wise woman once said


    and she lived happily ever after!

    The end.

    • My screensaver is a ‘somecard’ – picture of woman with child on lap, telling story.. it says:

      And she gave no fucks, not a single one!

      And she lived happily ever after.

      The End

  • I read this and was filled with dread. I’m at the beginning of all this. Doing “happy happy happy Thanksgiving together for the kids’ sake (with mother-in-law who I suspect knew her daughter was cheating…..cheater wife was doing it at their house when they were out at church) in a couple of days. But the other day cheater wife chimed in that she was going to live “wherever I did so that she could be closer to the kid.” I’m trying to get this horrible woman out of my life and I’m going to wake up one day and she will be my new neighbor!

    • Oh Zell…well I suggest you scout the realty in your area. Buy a parcel of land and invest in a long and tall fence encompassing the property. Either that or build a moat and fill with alligators…Hang in there guy!

  • John, unfortunately there is no emotional statute of limitations on our ex narcs’ insane efforts to shoplift the kibbles from us. Not even your finalized divorce decree that’s been collecting dust for 4 blessed years, nor the new dick-owner in her life, can dissuade her from inappropriately reaching out to you hoping for some family vacay bankrolling and Instagram evidence that ya’ll get along just like Gwyneth and Chris or some shit. If you need any Trust That She Sucks confirmation, try contemplating what it’s like to be her new boyfriend right now. Dude has no idea she’s trying to triangulate with you.

    Real talk: women of quality and good character you are trying to date right now? They will RUN in the other direction, and rightfully so, if you agree to this little vacation nonsense. She is testing you to see if she still has power and control over you. In your shoes, I would kick dating into high gear because you are clearly a catch, and life is too short to keep a crazy person central.

    • John, I echo Jo’s comment and previous comment on this. Jo’s advice cuts both ways for male and female chumps. If we can’t draw the boundaries and show some moxy and spine in enforcing boundaries, all future quality partners are NOT going to invest in us.

  • My XH has tried, off and on, to contact me for YEARS. He tried to friend me on Facebook. I blocked him. Then he somehow got my home address, and sent me a chummy note, with the inevitable request at the end: he needed a copy of our divorce decree from over 20 years ago since he couldn’t find his copy and needed it for his passport renewal. Right. This guy can’t tell the truth if his life depended on it. His note went straight into the trash, with NC going strong from me. Then I started getting a note once a week, then several times a week…I finally broke NC with a terse note that said: “I filed at such-and-so court, you may order a copy from them. I really cannot be bothered to look for mine, and, at any rate, it is YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE.”
    A week later, another whining note, at which point I went to an attorney friend who drafted a letter using his firm’s letterhead, reiterating the name of the court, and even the case number, then gently suggesting that X respect my wishes to not be incontact.
    End of conversation.

  • Next time your ego maniac ex tries to dictate how to live your life, you can say this:

    EGO MANIAC: I don’t want you dating women younger than me or having any more children.
    YOU: I wasn’t asking your permission.
    EGO MANIAC: I’m only saying this out of deep concern for the children!
    YOU: I don’t need your permission to date or have children.
    EGO MANIAC: I’m not saying that! You take everything I say the wrong way! It’s like you don’t care about me or the children!!!!!!
    YOU: I’ve said all I’m going to say on the subject. Goodbye.

    Then hang up. Don’t try to make her understand how hypocritical it is for a cheater to talk about permission to date others or make her understand you are separate from her. This requires her to have empathy, which she doesn’t have. Instead, state your boundary and repeat only once, then move on.

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