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Dear Chump Lady, He wants to move to New Zealand

Dear Chump Lady,

We’ve been separated almost 10 months. He has a girlfriend and is still seeing her, as far as I know. He is emotionally constipated. We never talk about anything. He never expressed regret, never said he wanted to be with me. We have three kids, who live with me now. We started mediation last month because once I found out he took his girlfriend on vacation and used our money and credit cards to pay for it, the polite attitude of “no rush” ended and I want this marriage formally dissolved. (The vacation occurred two months ago).

After our second mediation session, he sends me an email with a link to an article about the happiest places to live. And writes,

“New Zealand is the place to be. I am amenable to moving to New Zealand if you are.”

He followed it up with a list of why NZ is so great.

This upset me in so many ways. First of all, the list is a different color font than the rest of the email, so it looks like he copied and pasted it in from somewhere else. (An email to his girlfriend?) Second, WTF is this shit? A way to say sorry and he wants me back? Not really me, though, just his life. And third, grow the fuck up! You can’t run from the shitshow you’ve created. This — right here — is your life, so stand up and deal with it.

I am trying to go grey rock as much as possible so I didn’t want to engage too much via email on this (and Lord knows we will never have a conversation about feelings) so after much mental tail chasing I finally just wrote,

Think. Why would I want to go to NZ and know no one there but you? Why would you even ask that? It’s so off the wall. “

How deep is this guy’s denial? How deluded is he? How do I DEAL with this? I am trying so hard to move forward and create a new place of stability for myself and my kids and he is just… in another world.


Dear ChumpYOUMoFo,

How do you deal with this? Buy him a ticket to New Zealand. Maybe throw a couple “Flight of the Conchords” DVDs in the mix and send him on his way.

Consider that airfare is cheaper than a custody trial and solves the whole grey rock problem. You get a fuckwit-free life and he gets sheep shearing, or whatever it is they do for fun there in New Zealand. Kiwi watching? Lord of the Rings re-enactments? Rugby? Rugby while dressed as competing Lord of the Rings characters? (Orcs versus Ents!)

Obviously my knowledge of New Zealand is scant. But his is too! (Albeit, he has a list.)

I know my answer seems flippant, but listen, when a fuckwit wants to exit your life? — let them GO. Prepare the shuttle service to Planet Narcissist at once. Secure a generous settlement first, of course. Make him sign over the house, or custody, a hunk of cash. In his anxiety to escape, he may stupidly give you whatever you ask for. Take advantage of this window.

But he asked me to go!

No he didn’t. Not really. He knows exactly how responsible and sane you are. If his cut ‘n paste skills are any clue, he also asked the OW. This is one of those cheater ploys, like when they call you from a bar at 11 p.m. (knowing full well you go to bed at 9 p.m.) and invite you to “join” them. Clearly, you WON’T join them, but now the cheater’s got plausible deniability that you were being excluded so they could booze around with Schmoopie. Hey, I INVITED YOU. 

Same deal here.

I am trying so hard to move forward and create a new place of stability for myself and my kids and he is just… in another world.

Let me tell you how this ends. You move forward and create a place of stability for yourself and the kids — and he is in another world.

You’re rightly upset. He’s essentially threatening to abandon you, and his responsibilities. But think about it. He’s already done this. You’re living that nightmare now in real time.

WTF is this shit? A way to say sorry and he wants me back? Not really me, though, just his life.

No, he’s not sorry. The only thing he wants back is cake. Not his “life” with you and the kids. A guy who just funded a paid vacation for himself and his fuckbuddy on marital monies is not telegraphing “sorry.” He’s telegraphing “It’s all about ME.”

And third, grow the fuck up! You can’t run from the shitshow you’ve created. This — right here — is your life, so stand up and deal with it.

The fuckwit has left the barn. He’s not going to grow up. If you want him to deal with the shitshow he created, you put the heavy boot of the law on his neck. (Does New Zealand have extradition treaties for unpaid child support? Look into this.) See above — generous settlement, asset in your name, lump sum cash buy out, you get full physical custody.

He cannot be relied upon. This — right here — is your life, so stand up and deal with it.

I’m sorry, it’s fucking unfair. But you need to put down the skein of WHY he’s is asking you stupid shit, and start protecting yourself from his idiocy.

Stupid New Life Plans are what cheaters do. Has the old life lost its sparkle? I know, CHIA PETS! It’s the future! Let’s put everything down on CHIA PETS! No. Damn. You have to water chia pets… Okay then, GRANITE COUNTERTOPS! Life would be perfect if they only had GRANITE COUNTERTOPS! What? What’s that you say? Granite is passé and it’s all quartz now? Mortgage grandma’s house, the fuckwit needs QUARTZ!

Do you see how this game is played?

I’m sorry you invested a life and three children in a fuckwit. But the good news is you get your life back and those three kids, for the low, low price of doing it all yourself. The law is not super terrific at forcing fuckwits to grow up and adult. (Ask me about my child support arrearages…) So I suggest you get that divorce finalized and forge bravely into your new life. Investing there pays dividends. Travel brochures to New Zealand, not so much.

Try not to engage. I’m sure another Stupid Life Plan will be along shortly. Meanwhile, remain the sane parent. He can go to hell… or New Zealand.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • This is part of that ‘change scenery, change nothing’ fantasy. He wants to away from the people who know who he is so they don’t point out the con. But after immersing himself in NZ people will again… know who he is.

    This is not golf. There is no mulligan. This is life.

    • To be fair… I tried the “change scenery” when I discovered the cheating. It does offer an easy “fix” .

      “Let’s go to NYC and try and sort things out” , not realising you can’t sort out the truly fucked up – different city, same fucked up.

      • I moved across the country for a job awhile after I discovered everything…. and my panic attacks have gone from basically constant to rare… I definitely get the idea of finding a fresh start. But that was my choice, I don’t have kids, I moved FOR my job so I wasn’t destitute- it just happened to help me get some distance… I am all for moving, but the reasons need to be more than ‘because delusional ass face thinks those NZ won’t be able to resist his recessing hairline and bacne even more than the ladies here’….

        • Well, and you weren’t running away from a spouse and three kids with your Schmoopie.

          A fresh start away from a fuckwit is a good thing.

          A fuckwit field trip for kibbles is a fuckwit thing.

          • Hahaha yes. This. I had to get to a place and learn to breathe again. Literally. I was a basket case.

      • Me, too. I gave up tenure & decent pay to move across the country so that then-husband could have a much better job, thinking it would eliminate some of the marital stress. Nope, he simply used his “better job” as an opportunity to prey on students and have affairs with them. Marital stress actually increased until I found out about said students.

        • You know, I despise your X for what he’s put you through, but I despise him just as much for using his position to prey on students, and thus “teaching” them the ways of cheating. Despicable.

          • Absolutely, his predatory behavior toward students is evil. I know of at least one student he drummed out of the graduate program because she wouldn’t sleep with him (I contacted her after the divorce to apologize that no one helped her at the time).

            While I gave up job perks to move with Hannibal, I landed in a city I adore, amongst fabulous colleagues. Overall I think of the move as a ‘win.’

      • I prefer, “you carry your emotional baggage with you no matter where you go and no matter whom offers to carry it for you.”

        • Yeah, there’s no handing off that baggage to anybody. Hence, fix your picker. Have boundaries. Clean up those FOO issues.

        • Yep; when I had the hard talk with my meth-addicted son: “you can’t run because wherever you go, there you are.”

          Same for most of these putrid cheaters.

    • I get the impulse. It seems like it would work – if I move away, and the scenery changes, then I will be different too! It’s a myth, but I understand it. I feel like running away some days myself, but then I think about packing for 3 kids, and traveling with them, and dealing with their crankiness, and I say, eff it, let them watch TV here and I’ll go on chumplady for my escape!

      • I plan to wait until my youngest goes to college in 6 years and then “escape” so I don’t have to deal with anyone’s crankiness but my own (and nobody else has to deal with mine). :). My sister just bought a house in CO. Sounds good to me. The company I work for has a branch office in Denver. I will leave all of the stuff behind with the house. If ex doesn’t like it he can buy the house along with everything in it and he can live with the ghosts.

        • Chumpinrecovery,

          I’m from out West, (obviously ) and dream of moving back to Co. I have 4-5 years to stay here in Michigan. So glad to hear my dreams are in good company

      • The risk of it is that you sweep the hard work of grief and self-rebuilding under the rug of “newness.” I’m all for buying a new house or painting the living room or buying a new bed. And relocating if there is a new job that resets your financial life. But running is not an answer.

      • For decades, I have wanted to move far away–but I would likely lose a lot of physical custody of my kids, who are still several years away from age of majority, so I stay in Expensive City so the kids can see there (Disneyland) dad when he is available, less than 15% of the time, usually with one of his partners.

  • Is mediation the best way to go? Do you have an advocate who is looking bout for your interests and making sure this dude isn’t just playing you? Just something to consider.

    • Agreed.

      The best advice I received was to NEVER mediate with a cheater (this from my mediator once the affair was discovered).

      They have crazy good lying, cheating and deceiving skills…and we are just chumps.

      Successful mediation requires fairness. Fairness left the barn and you didn’t even know there was a barn!

      At minimum get a kick-ass lawyer to advise you thru the process. Protect yourself because most likely you will need it.

      • Lots of courts now require mediation, so skipping it is not an option for many. If you are required to mediate, be sure you know your mediator. Use one who has experience and is licensed to practice in your state, as many places do not impose that requirement. Do not waste time and money on an inexperienced or biased mediator.

        If you are required to mediate, and you know it won’t help, keep it short. Don’t spend hours telling the mediator how awful stbx is. They don’t care. Don’t pay half of a mediator’s fee to sit for hours accomplishing nothing. Do not allow anyone (your own lawyer included) to push you into a settlement you do not want. Yes, there is a give and take, but we know how cheaters take…and take.

        On the other hand, it doesn’t make sense to chase after money that isn’t there. Know the financials going in (all of them) and refuse to mediate until you get the information you need. Many people approach mediation emotionally. Know the marriage is dead, know your worth, and treat the mediation like the dissolution of a business. No, it’s not fair, but nothing cheaters do is fair, so try to be as cold-blooded as your opponent. That approach may just knock your cheater off his/her pedestal long enough for you to get more than what the judge will order if your case goes through an (expensive) trial.

        • Pay the extra $$$ and get a retired judge. Preferably an older man of the same race as the jerk, or white, if you can’t.

          (Yes, I know that comes across as sexist and racist, but our society is that way. It’s not about competence, it’s about the type of person a nitwit will view as an an authority).

          The old retired judges are the best for getting fairness and getting it over with.

          They can say “I can’t say what Judge Smith will do, but in my 30 years on the bench, when I saw a case like this, here’ what I did.”

          They can play “bad cop” convincingly. They have been the bad cop.

          Gets selfish jerks and narcissistic twits to pay up sign the agreement.

          -Divorce Attorney

          • My mediator (picked by my lawyer) was a retired family court judge, and he was GREAT! I ended up with a very decent settlement (in a no fault province – Canada) in one session! I did not expect it to go that quickly without a lot of fighting as ex is total covert narc who LOVES to manipulate anyone willing to engage with him. Retired judge did not fall for any crap and seemed to be somewhat protective of me. There are some people who take an instant dislike to my ex, like they can smell the bullshit on him, I think the old judge knew exactly who he was dealing with. Lucky for me. Also, please do NOT go into mediation without a good lawyer. You need someone who knows all of the ins and outs of the law and can steer you towards picking your battles and bringing up stuff you would never have thought of. When everyone asked me afterwards if I was happy with the outcome, my response was “happy enough”! Good luck! Hopefully you get a good settlement and he just fucks off to NZ. He doesn’t sound like a good role model!

          • I found in my case, which spanned many hearings under many judges, that the old, white male judges were the fairest to me, a female target of a while male abuser. The (new) female judge who presided over much of our case–what a disaster for me–I wouldn’t have been surprised if, while sitting on the bench, she had overtly asked my husband for a date after telling me to hand over all assets! Nothing surprises me anymore.

            • Sadly- female judges are mostly cunts. Hard stop.

              I tried to get a restraining order on behalf of a minor whose step mother ( who was a whore OW) was slapping her and forcing her in the deep end of the pool when she could not swim.

              A cunt female judge, who was about as smart as a box of turnips, acted like I had ask her to drop off her own hand.

              And denied my motion and ordered the 13 year old back to the visits.

              I still have fantasies of beating that judge’s ass. She had better hope I always have something to lose…..????

              • That statement is a bit much…let’s not forget the recent trial of Larry Nasser and the great judge that made time for each victim to speak up and confront that monster.
                I’m so sorry that you were defeated while trying to protect a child. I can’t think of a more frustrating situation. Most of us would be very angry under those circumstances, rightfully angry at the judge. I truly hope that the custody rules/RO change for you someday soon.
                Neither sex exhibits all the bad behavior, as illustrated by the letters and comments here every day.
                Wishing you peace.

      • I do have a lawyer advising me, which is good. So far ex has been amenable to the terms I want which are favorable to me. I’ll be fair(ish) to him but I’m not going without so he can Have More.

        • There is a narrow window with these fuckwits of getting out clean. They want to run off into the sunset with their twu wuv schmoopies but still have a twinge of guilt (perhaps it’s just gas) of what they are leaving behind. Once they start seeing the reality of their situations or their dreams of escapism isn’t wrapped up with a pretty bow, they become very difficult to deal with. And get what you need to survive alone and raise your kids. Many of these cheaters fade into the sunset when the world no longer revolves around them.

          I am sorry you are here, but I’m glad you’ve come here for support and advice.

          • Twice a chump, I’m scared that I’ll miss the narrow window. He’s detached so much in our separation that I’m feeling his guilt is evaporating! I think I need to become proactive and move this separation toward something perminnant!

        • When you have three kids, “fairish” is making sure you can support the kiddos on your own if you have to.

  • We all remember being that little Spouse Boat on a choppy sea, being tossed to and fro emotionally, financially and sometimes literally by the Fuckwit Whoreaster.

    But that’s what Separation is. You have a separate life. You no longer make joint decisions. You are bound by your commitment to your children to make sane and stable ones. You need a permanent CS order in place, because this guy is burning through marital assets. If he wants to go on a Great Hobbit Caper, let him go.

    If all your kids learn from him is How Not to Do Life, they are still learning.

    • You Rock.

      My kids may not have appreciated it at the time … but they do now. One sane parent who paid the bills, got them braces, fed them and drove them to school everyday through high school, really counted. The absent parent running around “having fun” but doing zero parenting lost their respect – completely.

    • Love you, Luziana!!!

      Your analogy/metaphor(I’m doped up on cold meds, so I don’t know) is perfect!!!!

      It’s exactly what it’s like.

  • NZ happens to be an utterly beautiful country with great down to earth people and one of the best movies ever: Hunt for the Wilderpeople (even though us Aussies normally tease our Kiwi neighbours). But that’s not the point. Your husband will be just the same pathetic man-child in NZ as he is in the US; a change of location won’t give him a character transplant. Can you keep NZ beautiful and suggest somewhere like Siberia instead?

  • “Stupid New Life Plans are what cheaters do.”


    XW had so many of these that I lost track.

    –The first few years, I admired her carefree spirit.
    –The next few years, I got irritated about how many of her plans really had no details or logistics worked out.
    –The last couple of years (we were only together 9 total), I accepted that all of these plans were just about escaping responsibility–to earn a living, to live within our means, to see my family, to be faithful. You know, the basics.

    And from what I hear, her shitty life planning continues.

      • I might be able to contribute some DOOZIES here: ever seen those bunker survivalist shows?

        • I know I have a few contributions, not quite the bunker reality show but pretty close.

          • I know I should save this for a “challenge”, but spending a grand on golf course plans that he spoke about for over a month but never actually looked at, let alone had any real planning in mind, is my personal fav…esp when he had us dancing around bankruptcy our entire marriage. I do have several more. I do wish he would have followed through with the fantasy of getting a long term gig in the UAE so he could get away from his horrible existence. Ah, memories;)
            ChumpYOUMoFo, once you get a divorce from this cheater, things will start to look up. Those of us on the other side all promise.

        • Game on!!!

          I think X’s exploits should at least put him in the top 10, in both the sheer number and utter weirdness of screwball schemes categories, if not on the podium.

          CN members are gonna have some great stories!

      • Please, please do it! I’ve got one hell of a story to contribute to that challenge! Straight from the mouth of my therapist, “I’ve been doing this a very long time, but this will forever be a stand-out in my career!”

      • A Friday challenge sounds like fun!

        Not only were these poorly-considered life choices/suggestions annoying in-and-of themselves, but by default they made me into “the wet blanket.” My requirement that we think through the ramifications of major decisions and plan accordingly regularly killed the most egregious options. And it allowed my now-XW to paint me as “boring.”

        • Wet blankets prevent fires. Just sayin’. And she’ll find him to be just as “boring,” because he likes to withdraw and withhold as punishment for every perceived infraction. So he’ll eventually refuse to participate in most of what she wants to do. But what she won’t understand is that you didn’t play ball out of shared responsibility, and he doesn’t play ball out of spite. Tough cookies, he’s her problem now (and visa versa).

      • Then I’ll save mine, but I got the same “new life” and “i was a stick in the mud by injecting reality into his plan” So funny this is actually a thing out of the playbook.

      • Oh yyyyeeeeaaaaasssss!!!!
        I was driven to CH13 bankruptcy while married, then to it again last year, when he stopped paying child support.
        However, I have a few good’uns with The Evil One’s money-making plans…

    • Wow, what a reminder JC. I forgot about my ex’s grand plans to do this and that. Based on her Pinterest memes, she was going to “break free of the struggle”, “slam old doors shut” and “live her truth” (while sleeping with somebody else’s husband at work – that’s some real truth there).

      She was going to travel to Europe, go on cruises, open her own yoga studio, be a personal trainer, etc. Alas, there were things like me, the kids, her job, her budget, reality… know, all those kinds of things that keep us from walking away from our lives and living out our greatest fantasies.

      I’d love to go to Europe for a month too – but I have an employer that likes me to show up at my job, I have kids to raise, and that pesky house payment. And my bank likes to get paid every month – they’re like that, you know. Somehow though I didn’t compensate for these disappointments by “breaking free of my chains,” blaming my spouse, and start sleeping around with other people. We’re just different, I suppose.

      • Yes you are different because her life and “dreams” are based on cliches she read off a calendar somewhere. Maybe she is planning to have the deep thoughts tattooed onto her body so she doesn’t forget to “slam old doors shut”

      • “I’d love to go to Europe for a month too – but I have an employer that likes me to show up at my job, I have kids to raise, and that pesky house payment.”

        Yup! This. Except instead of going to Europe it was to start this or that website that does something I quickly explained was already being done better by a store, existing website, etc. But, I was the “miser” for, you know, paying the mortgage and saving for rainy days rather than finance her next hair-brained scheme formulated in the insightful cauldron of drunkenness and entitlement.

      • Blindside et al.,

        Your descriptions of your exes support my suspicion regarding why my boyfriend probably discarded me (I never got a clear, detailed answer that made sense)–too much responsibility (full-time working mother of elementary school aged children; I generally came over to cook for and entertain him, divorced childless guy, only a couple of days/week as that is all he had time for (especially when he started noticing other women at work…); in the profession I had at the time, I had ONLY 14 weeks of vacation/year and thus couldn’t drop everything on a moment’s notice to run off on vacation with him, executive who had four weeks of vacation/year… (sometimes I took vacation with him only two days instead of three! Gasp! Because I had kids of which I had nearly sole physical custody! Gasp!) and I wasn’t a gazillionaire, just a middle-class person. How awful!)

    • Oh yay for you! You get to see how a cheater really is driving their own karma lol.

      The cheater x from here (NB I refuse to call it “my” ughhh need a shower after that thought)… has ROLLED through the “new supplies” in a feverish pace since we got it out. LOLOLOLOLOL.

      Ahhhh the sweet sweet unrolling of karma.

      • Ha!

        Seriously. Eight years ago, her first job in that city wasn’t going well. She’d over-sold herself and gotten hired with a major salary bump. But after a year, she couldn’t justify her high salary, so they made her start doing work she didn’t want to do. A year later, they cut her pay by 15%. That’s when she decided to look for another job.

        So, she spent a year “exploring” options–often embracing the creative side of many potential jobs, going on interviews, taking art classes, volunteering. The practical side? Not so much.

        I supported it all, partially oblivious that she was being flighty and irresponsible. After all, I required that she keep her old job until she found a new one. And she did.

        And then she DID find that new job. And it was glorious. And there was much rejoicing.

        But, given she’s an inherently unhappy person–seeking happiness from external sources rather than from hersel–she discovered that the new job didn’t make her happy, so she found a new cause for her unhappiness: me. And the solution would be a new man: your ex.

        They got together and destroyed 2 marriages.

        Happiness didn’t last, so they had a baby.

        Happiness didn’t last again, so she quit her job and got this new “job.”

        Any bets on how this turns out?!?

        As you said, she will always be looking for the next novelty, believing that novelty IS happiness. And she will always be disappointed.

        It’s all so clear and obvious in retrospect.

        • Sounds just like The Evil One.
          Every new job, every new vehicle, every new hobby, every move was “IT”
          We’ve been divorced about two and half years now, D-Day was almost three years ago, and he’s had many job changes, vehicle changes (no more “Shit-erado”, got a Fucker-150 crew cab, but can’t afford to pay child support for the last six + months)

        • Funny story that her ego got one step ahead of her ability to perform and she ended up with a pay cut. Now that the “perfect job” she finally landed is in the rear view mirror, I think another move will be the next shiny object.

          As for job and fulfillment hopping, it’s the same story with my ex. Every time he got what he wanted, he sank into a depression and had to go after a newer New Thing. I never understood the compulsion, and always thought that as the common denominator, I must have been doing something wrong. I failed to consider that there was another common denominator, and it was him. It’s long past time for him to indulge in some escapist novelty, so we’ll see if a possible move tides him over or if he’ll need another new girlfriend on the side.

          It is interesting to look back and see how clearly all of their idiocy falls into the playbook, and it’s fun to co-schadenfreude. But also…



        • They are adrenaline junkies; always looking for that high. Too bad the rest of us get caught up in the vortex.

    • Yep stupid new life plans. We met in Switzerland but then the Twat insisted we moved to DC. I get a job, his job ain’t so great, so then we have to move to PA. I bring in money working from home, but get offered a job back in Switzerland. Yep let’s go to Switzerland cos the Twat hates his job in PA. A few years back in Switzerland “let’s move to Montana and build a log cabin”. Facepalm. Why don’t we fucking stay in Switzerland where we both have good jobs and build a log cabin here – you know, mountains and all that. That soon died a death when I told him “sure you go to Montana and get the good job plus the health care plus education benefits for our kids, plus a pension, oh and be sure to earn a great salary cos I sure as hell ain’t working anymore having already given up 3 great jobs to follow your stupid ass”! Somehow the idea of building a cabin in Montana lost it’s shine after that.

      • Mine gave up a high paying job in banking to become a flight instructor. I supported this because banking is kind of a soulless job and I wanted him to be happy. He did eventually succeed in becoming a flight instructor (a few months before DDay, after he started cheating). I was so proud. Now he has even made flight school director. Guess what. He still isn’t happy. It turns out flying isn’t so fun when its your job. Now he is just stuck in a low paying job he hates instead of a high paying job he hates. Oops.

      • Attie,

        He grew up in Montana and forever waxed nostalgic about someday returning. He always bought the most expensive house we could afford and forever had 2 car pmts (he bought cars like a crazyperson) then we would visit Montana and he would say “I would live here in a doublewide trailer but you wont do it”…completely blocking out all reality that his career and suburban debt is why we never moved to Montana. He is now in Montana permanently…his spot is about 8ft x4 ft with a grave stone on it.

        • TEO always said he wants to have his ashes scattered in Niagara Falls, his birth place.
          Now, I hope when he does pass I’ll get some of his ashes, drive up to Niagara Falls, and flush his ashes down a toilet at a rest area.

    • My husband had this too.

      For the first five years of our marriage we moved at least every six months becayse there was always “a better opportunity” around the corner. But his follow-thriugh just didn’t happen.

      • Here is another bingo square. Mine did the same. He insisted taking a new job so he could “be himself” now he says he is super unhappy. I guess being yourself isn’t the key to being happy he thought.

      • By the time you get married and have children, aren’t you supposed to have figured out these basics already? I mean if a person is trying to find himself or herself, then don’t get married. Just stay single and roam around to your heart’s content, dabble in this and dabble in that, try this and that. But don’t destroy a family at your own expense! Marriage is not the time to be experimenting with what you like or not, it’s the time to be building roots and stability. These cheaters are really mentally disturbed.

        • Kellia i so agree with you. I have asked him why did you marry me??? I know i was totally conned. But why????

  • Seriously their minds, they don’t work so good…who knows why. But you should go after these brilliant bastards early. They just want out and they are more willing to do whatever it takes to be free.

    • So true! Mine in his willingness to be “free” with his pregnant girlfriend agreed to:

      *spousal that covers 1/2 the mortgage for 15 years (we were married for 8)
      *to also pay 1/2 the mortgage
      *I get primary residence of child
      *I have 85% custody
      *I get every Christmas and her birthday
      *I get to claim her and the house every year

      I still have to co-own a house with him but other than that I think it worked out well.

      • Just keep track of anything you invest in the house so he can’t reap the benefits. Looks to me like you did just fine.

        • Don’t worry, I have that written into the stipulation as well. I know full well he will never contribute a dime to any improvement or repairs because he spends most of his money on alcohol and cheap trinkets for our daughter.

    • they are definitely brilliant !! and why are we do dupe-able????? I loved the phrase living the nightmare in real time…guess I was ‘asleep at the wheel” then reality finally struck/hit…all the while he was living the life of adventure ! with his whore that would do anything he asked ! Just to get those gifts and have a good looking guy running after her narly ass for kibbles ! Her twat must have been lined with gold

  • “New Zealand is the place to be. I am amenable to moving to New Zealand if you are.”

    I interpret this as:
    I want to string you along in hope by offering an exciting place to live… some place remote where you are dependent on me and isolated so I can continue abusing you.

    • Yes, absolutely, the hope is that if you’re isolated, you won’t be able to figure out how bizarre and twisted their behavior is.

    • Totally! Omg absolutely and entirely.

      Dodge that bullet by staying AS FAR AWAY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

    • Meh, I think it’s more likely that he can then spin the narrative of “I tried to get the ex to move the kids to this wonderful paradise, but the vindictive bore refused. So now I don’t get to see my kids. And it’s her fault.”

      I don’t think he wants her to move. He wants her to refuse to move so he can look like a hero.

  • Of course he wants to leave his past and dirty deeds behind. Don’t respond to him unless it’s about the children. He forfeited his chance to be your partner when he betrayed you and your kids. You have to maintain your sanity for your own sake, don’t interact with his chaos and childishness. He will pull you down further and further if you do. His love has zero value, he is a backstabber.

    • Yup, just go and reinvent yourself. He’s now done that twice after two marriages that ended the same way.
      And his family has no idea of the disorder and feel sorry for him moving all by his lonesome to CO, all by single self!
      He was so dillusional, wanted me to move with him after the divorce! I really think it was to save face with the employer who knew us both. They econtinue to feel entitled after the adultary, anything to protect the image.
      They cannot be alone, he is already started up with the next girl.

  • “Does New Zealand have extradition treaties for unpaid child support? Look into this.“

    ^^^^THIS^^^^ was exactly my first thought when I read the headline.

    My STBX has asked me several times if I’d consider moving if he moves… as to not be far from the kids. What he thinks I don’t know, (because I’m positive he thinks I’m an idiot) is that even after a divorce is final, they can have alimony and child support revisited under another states laws if you move there.

    Unfortunately with fuckwits you have to be on constant look out for the hidden agenda and you can’t afford to take things at face value. Hey, maybe he really is just a cake eating cheater, but I bet there is an alterior motive. Now you don’t have to go figure out what it is… because you are just doing you.

    • Lols: the ex father in law made a point of saying to me that he only takes his son at face value…. you’re in for a lifetime of disappointment then buddy

    • I don’t think he hs ulterior motives, but rather he just is in deep denial about what is happening in his/our lives. I don’t think he’d go to NZ alone either – it’s just an attempt to outrun his mess. And have me clean it up like I used to. Not any more!

      • My asshat poofed on me, signed away more than 50% in our no-fault state, and now has left the country. But I still had to clean up the mess.

        I had to fix up the enormous broken house, take a dozen loads to the dump, charity, and coordinate an auction house to come pick up the rest. I had to find a realtor and list the house, and agree to all price changes and marketing plans. I had to keep the place clean and the yard perfect for the 4 months it was listed last summer.

        He had to click the docusigns that came through to him and lift a pen and sign the final paperwork, such effort!

        I got the divorce attorney, did all the math around the splitting of assets, and negotiated the extras to my side. He gave approximately zero fucks and just signed on with my order. Again, with that pen!

        I visited every institution where 30 years of considerable assets were held, filled out all the forms, transferred out money and stock, and sent him checks for his portion. Oh, his little fingers must have cramped up so!

        I did all the clean up and he did the chasing rainbows. He sold his family for magic beans and has zero clean up in his plans. He just finds new hosts and pays for others to manage things.

        I field the hours of calls from my girls crying and raging about what their dad did. In person, we hug on each other and make plans to see each other again. We talk about boys and about how to not pick one like their dad. We know that my father already volunteered to walk them down the aisle when they find their One some day.

        We hope a new and better man may come and be the grandfather figure for their own eventual babies. We hope he will come into all our lives and treat us all kindly, and will never settle for less.

        And most importantly they are sure that I will NEVER EVER ABANDON THEM.

        I did all the clean up and it will never end. He got away with all of that, and he simply doesn’t care. But hey, beans.

        • You are awesome. Your girls are so lucky to have a strong momma like you!

  • “Fabulous! Here’s your one way plane ticket. Why don’t you go right ahead, while I pack up and sell the house. Just sign this little Power of Attorney for me ….”

    • Born Free,
      Are you sure you are an introvert? ( read this in a previous post, a different day).
      YOU are just sunshine on a rainy day, any day actually.
      I just love you and your quick wit, not to even mention your expert, top notch, advice!????
      CN ‘s world is brightened by your presence!


      • Yes My Silly Peacekeeper,
        I am an introvert … meaning I get my “recharging” from quieter pursuits rather than being super noisy busy (extrovert).
        That said I do love my friends, family and dispensing of snark to one & all.


    • Heeeheeeee, I would give the Evil One one of my kidneys for child support in full and him go far, far away

  • My Cheater also moved 2000 miles away during our divorce, so he could move in with the OW. I warned him flights to see our two kids would be expensive. He told the judge “I’ll fly out every month to see them”. Nope. He goes six months at a time without seeing his kids.

    It is a lot of work on me, BUT, like CL said, “He wasn’t reliable in the first place”. I get to raise them with my values, I never have to worry I’ll run into him or OW in Target. I don’t have to look over my shoulder, and my kids get (mostly) stability.

    Buy him a plane ticket. You can’t stop them anyway, and at least the crazy will be far away from you!

  • Please don’t send him to the Southern Hemisphere: we don’t want him.

    It’s prob a pipe dream anyway; Narcissists are soooo lazy! You really would have to buy him the ticket to get him organised enough to leave the country.

    Or was it only my narc that was default lazy?

    Meanwhile, you don’t seem to have any desire to rekindle the romance (snort) so kudos to you!

  • ChumpYOU- Take it from one of the few incredibly fortunate chumps who got a hot pocket cheater- let him go. My cheater ex may as well be living in New Zealand ( by way of NY), point is he is OUT of my life. Yay!!! You’re being given a gift by your cheater- let him go, encourage him please. You will have sole physical custody of your kids, no co parenting bullshit to deal with and best of all, sweet heavenly sweet no contact. No running into him and his soulmate. Eventually he will forget about the kids because out of sight, out of mind and he’s a f’d up asshole who chose to cheat on his wife and kids. This is a win win situation once you find yourself through the other side of the injustice. Of course, take all you can get out of him before he says bon voyage. Speaking from experience, tie up every loose end and send him on his way- trust me, you will not regret it. Hugs.

      • Hey Bro! De only ting unusual bout dis?! Is, it ain’t unyuushual. Bro!
        They all talk the same shit!

      • Not to mock you Chumpyou mofo, but All I could think when I read this headline was What a lucky chump, a dream come true. I didn’t realize he wanted you to go too.

        Oh gosh, what I wouldn’t give to hear fuckwit was moving to some remote area of the world. A girl can dream.

        • I never saw it as a dream come true when Honey moved to the opposite coast for his AP with zero warning. I was devastated that I’d been married to someone capable of leaving his children behind. He signed over custody like it was nothing. Seeing his signature on that form plagued me day and night. They were 1 and 2 at the time. How could any parent walk away from parenting their own children? How could he flippantly take access to their parent away from them? How could he leave me with every single task…FOREVER?! The ‘how could he’ questions slowly came less and less, replaced with ‘thank God he’. It took years, but I read all of these stories about custody exchange nightmares with the disordered, and I know my fellow Chumps would switch places with me in a heartbeat. So something you may see as a nightmare, others may see as a blessing. He doesn’t even visit. So I suppose it’s best to see myself as the luckiest of the unlucky!

          • I agree with this. It is inhuman for someone to create innocent helpless human beings and abandon them at such a young age, to never see them again. It’s something I cannot fathom and will never comprehend. It’s evil to the core. People like this must be seriously mentally disturbed to abandon their own children just to get some strange vagina or penis. And what shocks me is that men like this find actually find women who actually want them.

            I went on a date with a guy like this, who informed me he got divorced when his kids were young and had two girls, 4 and 7. And when I asked if he missed them, he said no, at least I’m not there for the day to day bullshit raising them. I instantly cut off the date and never saw him again. That guy was scum and I certainly wasn’t going to entertain a lowlife like this. I was repulsed.

            • My ex left me & his son for his affair partner. I raised my stepson. Ex saw his kid for dinner Fridays & on every other Sunday (with some exceptions) despite having joint custody with his 1st ex-wife. His son told me it was like being abandoned over & over again & wished his father would forget about him & leave him alone. Draw your own conclusions & judge your situation as you will, but it may actually be a kindness that he’s out of your kids life. My stepson was so tormented he left the only real home he’d ever felt safe in, for 13 years (mine) & moved in with his father & the affair partner just prior to his senior year in high school & shortly after was thrown out of their house when ex found a new affair partner with daughters he wanted to himself. My now ex-stepson is adrift.

          • My friend has 3 boys with a trust fund narc. He refused to pay CS and his trust was untouchable. We’re talking near billionaire level inheritance. He signed over his kids 100% to her.
            She’s mom, dad and Little League Commissioner. Her three boys are involved in ever sport imaginable. She keeps them busy so they stay out of trouble and are around men. It works.
            She gets zero CS and the boys never see or speak with their father. He is busy racing cars, taking drugs and supporting a gf and her kid.

            It is unbelievably cruel.

          • I’m so sorry you have to deal with that. I am on the other end of the spectrum. I don’t want narc ex to have any access to our son. He is an abusive alcoholic, who has proved time and time again that he can not change. I have a protective order in place for one more year and the divorce papers grant no visitation. But does that stop ex narc? No! Recently has been emailing me saying he wants a relationship with our son, that he misses him terribly, that he dreams about him, that he wants to work with me. I am keeping firm with no contact, but honestly I am scared. He obviously has no regard for the law as he is clearly breaking the protective order. My son is 5 and in those 5 years narc ex was in his life for a year. To me he is merely a sperm doner. I know that I will do whatever necessary to keep him and all that toxicity away from my boy.

  • We don’t want his sort here!!! We have enough of our own cheating fuckwits! But chumpyoumofo you are very welcome! We are a great country but not so great to devote life to a cheater to be here. I don’t envy the mind game he’s playing on you right now and you don’t say how old your children are. You sound a strong and sane person and you’ll do the right thing for you and them. All I can say is Kia kaha -be strong and aroha – love and hugs.

    • Kiwichump can meet him at the airport and they can go on a one way sight seeing trip!
      ‘start protecting yourself from his idiocy’ about sums it up for me, he goes quiet because he his planning some half cocked pipe dream.
      He said he was going to build a mud brick house at one point, nearly died laughing, he has zero technical or building skills and can barely hang a picture.
      Think of it like this if you don’t converse with him beyond the kids and separation level you don’t have to hear this bs. Leave him to his windbaggery.

    • Can I come? I have had my NZ list memorized in my head since 1986. Not at all coincident with a Crowded House album release. Or the fact that you host the Single Speed World Championships repeatedly. I actually tried to switch careers to one that I could port to your fair island(s).

    • I have family that managed to expat to NZ (30 years ago). Happy family! It is a wonderful country with a fine quality of life and they are not on a mission to raise the population, unless your cheater has a special skill (which as kiwigirl can attest – cheater-skillz need not apply). Don’t bother pointing that out to him tho – he will just blame the messenger for bringing reality. Your ability to deal with reality (a sad one) is what will make you special, anywhere you go.

      • I’ve been madly in love with New Zealand since I had a penpal from Christchurch in the ’60’s. They sent me some great Sunday papers, etc., and it’s always been my ambition to see the the country. I read the NZ news online, and it’s always fun to see the lives others live. A great place.

    • KiwiGirl,

      Meet him at the airport with a kangaroo holding a cactus. LOL

  • He wants to be able to say that he included you. I think he’s going for image management here.

    “I am not abandoning my kids – but my mean wife wouldn’t let them come to NZ with us – so what’s a fuckwhit to do?!?”

    He wants you to be the sane person who says no. Because then it’s all your fault, however this plays out.

    Just ignore it. He’ll get bored of the idea while you are twisting yourself into a knot over it.

    Or better yet he’ll go and get eaten by a shark!!!

    • ^^This! They never tire of forcing you to be the wet blanket adult who has to squash all their “dreams.” They force you to play that role and then they can also BLAME you for playing the role. Use this. Draw up a settlement that gives you custody and divides the monetary assets in a way that at least LOOKS favorable to him (because fuckwits care far more about money than children). Tell him you understand that he needs a change and you want him to be happy because that will make him a better parent. Reinforce the idiotic narrative that he is creating to protect his fragile ego and image. I did this in reverse to get away from my cheater. I basically made it economically sweet for him so I could move across the country with my kids. I knew his lazy nature would mean he wouldn’t bother to exercise even the meager summer visitation. He didn’t. We were poor; we were free. He never paid support and I never chased it because HIS ABSENCE was worth so much more than the pittance I asked for in support in the divorce (part of the bait).

      • Yup, I told him if that he signed property over to me he wouldn’t be responsible for half the mortgage now that we’d split (he never paid when together, so it is my house, his name was just on it to secure kids future but he then used all my savings and jeopardised their future) or the insurance etc. And would mean he could claim housing benefit….
        His name is still on the mortgage as I can’t get one in my own name because the joint loan he conned me into signing (to set up a business with the other woman – affair partner no. 1) was defaulted on so now I am a bad credit risk even though I paid it off to get my name untied from his. So he is still on mortgage but has signed a binding legal document saying he will never make a claim. Arsehole has cost me over £20k just from these thefts, loans and legal fees. I have the kids and the house. He has nothing but his shadow soul and a young lassie (simultaneous affair partner no. 2) who thinks all this is OK….

    • I think image management is exactly the point!! He wants to be able to tell your kids that he asked you to go and you refused – thereby blocking him from seeing his kids, forcing him to miss their childhood, and causing their relationship to be completely nonexistent. All because of YOU, he’s such a VICTIM, certainly not because of his horrific behavior!! Get used to taking the blame, because he will always be pointing the finger at you. But your kids aren’t stupid and will figure it all out for themselves.

    • There’s no way NZ is taking this idiot. Unlike the United States, most countries require you to be a highly functioning adult with an in demand profession before you can emigrate.

  • After the blow up that was my XH first bid idea too. “Let’s just move”. So instead of texting schmoopie from 500 feet away, she was the neighbor, you’ll text and call her from 500 miles away? Yeah that’s going to fix EVERYTHING. After everything was settle i move 10 miles across town and had my own little life going. Just found out two months ago XH and schmoopie bought a house 1MILE down the road from me! Does anyone know why either one of them would want to buy a house so close to me? Schmoopie was told by X that i am crazy and unstable. Why would that dumbass whore agree to buy a house so close? Oh yea. Manipulative narc, thats why. Now i get to run into her while im shopping Yeah!!

    • They desperately need to keep you in their sick little life. If you moved they would probably follow.

      • My ex husband just wasn’t very bright. I’d had plans to relocate to another city when I retired, a place I’d loved in college and suited my temperament and interests. After we signed the divorce paperwork he tossed out that he was still considering moving there. Too lazy to come up with his own dreams, decided to co-opt one of mine. I wished him well, doubting that he would ever stop trolling Craiglist and playing his online games to make it a reality.

    • They need you to keep them binded in a sick way. You are the adhesive in their “relationship”. It’s us against the crazy ex. Narcs always need a target, always. You’ll just have to work hard for a bit to stay hidden from them and their drama. Sooner or later they’ll turn on someone else or each other.

      • I think this is true. Just last week OW posted a photo on Instagram of a building across the street from my house. The day my ex was dropping our kid back home. She was probably standing there watching…

        • Be careful you could be dealing with a bunny boiler. I’m curious. Was it a selfie with the building in the background or just the building itself?

          • JUST the building but it was definitely sent as a message to me. The week before she “accidentally” cc’ed me on an email to my ex. I do think she’s mentally unstable, based on the texts I saw before I kicked him out. Also depression and a psych ward lockup…

    • Asshat and his ho-worker moved in together *a block away* from me after we broke up! That was after he suggested that he and I pack up and move to NYC together of course (see that story below in the thread). I find it fascinating how they all seem to operate from the same insane playbook….

    • Wonderwoman,
      My adulterous, abusive husband decided to move out when he filed–to an apartment across the parking lot. As he manifested many signs of numerous personality disorders and psychosis (real or pretend–I’ll never know), I was rather freaked out for months until he moved nearly 10 miles away. He used to stand in the parking lot facing my car a few feet from my ground floor bedroom window on school mornings for 10-15 minutes staring straight ahead. Thriller horror movie, anyone?

  • This is what happens when people continually look outside themselves for fulfillment and satisfaction. Normal people don’t expect to live every moment of their lives at a level ten on a scale of 1-10. Normal people see the alternative to perfect as imperfect. Fuckwits see the alternative to perfect as OMG EVERYTHING IS BROKEN RUN RUN PANIC.

    Fuckwit logic: “Happiness is juuuuussst around the corner if I get that new job! No wait, that didn’t do it, I am Not Fulfilled. I know, A DIFFERENT new job! No, damn, that didn’t work. Ok, um, a spouse! Shit, I’m still miserable. Kids! That’ll make me happy! Ugh, they keep pooping and yelling. More kids! No, it must be something else. I’ll get a new house! A new car! A new dog! No no no, that didn’t make me happy either. Um, a different spouse, THAT is what I’m missing! That is what will solve everything. WTF?? It’s still not working, perfection has not arrived. Ok, got it! I need to move. I saw a poorly researched clickbait article about happiness, and people are happy in NZ! If I go there, surely THAT will be the secret to happiness. If people are happy there they must not have responsibilities, and so I shall join them in their follies! (Arrives in NZ, no one showers him with beer and blowjobs.) DAMN. IT. ALL. You know what will fix all this and make me happy? A new job.”

    They run and run and run towards the perfect thing that will make them happy. They think they’re making progress and getting closer. Only we can see that they’re on a treadmill.

    • This is so true. We relocated from our home state to TX. Husband would fly back to our home state and meet up with the wom(en), we had moved to get away from. Thought moving away from his home state OW would help. Nope. Not only that but he ended up meeting new OW in TX, while I stayed home and cared for our kids. I had left my great career so I could be a more attentive and relaxed wife. Moved back to our home state after not even two years, husband continued to travel and meet OW along the way.
      But really, it’s me and the fact that we have pets that he can’t keep his pants on. And that I don’t respect him after 10 years of philandering and wracking up debt. I even entertained moving again but that sure isn’t going to help anything. He bought himself the car that was supposed to make him happy – nope! But maybe if he had that amazing house that somehow I’m preventing him from buying, THEN he will be happy.
      Sadly I’m still in the pick me dance routine.

      • I’m sorry Alliecat. What a heartbreaker situation. I hope you can get free of it someday.

      • I’m sorry you’re still in the middle of this soul-crushing game with someone who doesn’t respect you. What would help you break free and take care of yourself?

      • As I mentioned recently, it feels MUCH better to tell a cheater to fuck off than to do the pick me dance. You’ll feel so much better in the end for putting a stop to his shit insofar as it spills over into your world. Pull the plug. File. Be done. Let him deal with his own misery. You’re worth more than what he’s willing to give you.

    • mine had like 10 hobbies then he could call me and say are you working on this date, because I want to go spend time at hobby #1, etc etc. Had to have a million hobbies that kept him busy to add to image management/success….AND to have yet another hidden agenda to go screw HO HO

  • How apropos for me today. My asshat X just moved to an Eastern Bloc country to be with his 25YO ho-worker (an international engineering firm, she is a “junior” accountant, because, of course). He permanently moved there last Friday.

    Last April when he poofed on me and headed 5 hours away within our state to where our adult daughters are in grad school & college, he declared he went there to “be there for them” and get the entire family away from the Horrible Judgmental and Controlling Wife Appliance so they could all “heal” and amputate Mom.

    I predicted that he would eventually abandon them, too, and it has been less than a year later that he did exactly that.

    It has been very hard this last week, I was brought to terrible sobbing again for the first time in months. The day after he left I woke up one morning and felt him laying in the bed beside me like he had for 3 decades, the weight and presence of him was very real. It was a ghost of a memory. I was surprised at the bounce back to that level of grief.

    My daughters are disgusted by him and told him so. They will both graduate from their respective colleges this summer and he will not be there. He just wants to argue things with them, point by point, to continue to deny and blameshift and gaslight them, too. And he still pins everything on me when they speak with him.

    I am looking forward to things going horribly wrong for him as he has cast off his shackles and starts his life anew in a whole other world. He will miss graduations, weddings, grand babies. Maybe our girls will drop him an e-mail to inform him of such events, exactly like I got an e-mail notice that he had moved out while I was away on a work trip. But certainly he won’t reflect and realize that gee, his life sucks even without the Horrible Wife on scene. He will just look for new scapegoats.

    For me, I hope his complete absence and no fear of him popping up in life will be a new step toward healing.

    • Now I.C.
      You and your daughters are Mighty!!!
      I am a Chump who pick me danced, he stayed. Eventhough, he was there, for family events, he was never, ” really there” ( because everything is about “me me me blah blah blah”) (it’s those other nasty characteristics, beside cheating).
      So, YES, your cheater will miss graduations, weddings, grandbabies. Funny hing, is though, that you, and your family won’t really miss him, because when he was there, he really wasn’t there anyway.
      It’s like a merry go round, except, not very merry, so glad you got off that ride.
      Hugs to you! And to your precious daughters!

      • I agree. I pick-me’d 10 years ago with OW#1 and got an empty shell walking around the house. He truly was never there. He stole the time from me after that dancing, and ended up abandoning me and blaming me for everything in the end. No unicorns. Our daughters remember that first round very well.

        I expect he will soon become bored with the chilly, gray, dull country he chose, and its boiled-and-bland food, and the soon to be boring Sparkletwat dumb shit little girl he chose. So he will pop around Europe and the Middle East looking for something more, something else. It will never ever be his fault.

        • …And/or, Shmoopie will grow tired of the old guy who moved to her country but doesn’t know anyone besides her or speak the language and so clings to her like a child. She will learn from him and use himto advance professionally for a few years, but then latch onto another (married or unmarried: she clearly doesn’t care which) man who better suits her next set of more ambitious goals.

      • ^^This—you won’t really miss him because even when he was there, he was never really ‘there’ anyway. Yes! When mine walked out I was so grief-stricken, I didn’t know how we would manage without him. After the shock began to lift, I realized I’d been managing just fine without him for years while he lived a parallel life to the rest of us doing what he wanted when he wanted with the kids and I to serve his needs.

        • Me too. First shock, then grief, anger and finally realization I’ve been going it alone for a decade anyway, cheater troll has just been money and token presence at events of his choosing. Basically he has been absentee parent/spouse for a long long time. I got this, I’m mighty all by myself, and YOU ARE TOO!

    • And don’t forget the joys of starting a new life as an older man having to learn their language (if he doesn’t already speak it). Ha, that will be fun.

      • Nope, doesn’t speak the language. But he will get lessons from the Sparkletwat. She is of use to him.

        And won’t he be the funny Nice Guy as he laughs and drinks large beers and is such a wonderful guy to everyone he meets! Everyone thinks he is so cute as he tries to learn the chunky new language!

        What an awsum dood! See? See? SEE?


    • Every once in a while I read a Chump story and go “Wait…WHAT?”

      He’s third degree disordered, of the delusional variety.

    • That’s awful, but I’m glad your daughter’s aren’t buying into his narrative

    • Now I.C.,

      Yep. The entitled, irresponsible are great at finding scapegoats. Out of the blue, ‘I just want to be happy! I want to run away from you!’ by my last ex is permanently seared in my brain. (My last two exes both left me for women at work, both younger. Exec boyfriend left for his work subordinate.) Sorry that you are going through this!

  • I remember my cheater ex after D-dad but before I Trusted That He Sucks telling me he wanted to buy a boat. Will it fit in our garage? Oh brother, did I Very Mistakenly take this as a sign that he was Choosing Me. He wants to put a boat in our garage! He wants this life with me! Nope, he just wanted a boat. Of course he had the same conversation with her, of course she took it as a sign that he was choosing her. He did indeed choose her. But he was really just choosing himself. “I have a bottomless pit of emptiness where my soul should be. I need to fill it with something. Endorphins from new relationships! Traveling! Boats! Oo what’s this, my chumpy wife is fighting to keep me? Yeah, that’s the stuff, keep it coming!

    God almighty how I wish he would move to New Zealand, and fall off the face of the earth while he’s there.

    • Oh god, my cheater wanted to buy a boat too. A two person sailboat. We were a three person family. ???? He claimed he wanted to teach our daughter to sail. I said I would only allow the purchase of a boat that the ENTIRE family could enjoy together.

      I didn’t see it at the time, but he had been discarding me for years.

      • cancerchump
        you hit the nail on the head, they discard for years….we never get the memo…I figure that the original discard has come way way earlier/years before….we don’t get the memo….we have no idea….they have emotionally checked out because they are getting screwed by their whore….then all of a sudden “final discard” has to be exacted on us in some form….during THEIR timing…when they have finished plotting and carefully planning…then their scheme is unleashed …they never let you know they are cheating but they orchestrate the perfect timing…as long as you don’t find out. IF you do find out then they have to execute their EXIT plan on us at that very moment…otherwise they are just coasting along, stringing us along until the perfect moment for them and kuntie kibbles or’s all about them and their carefully crafted and executed plan…

        • Duped,
          I should add, though, in my case, that I was so traumatized from my abusive marriage that when post-separation boyfriend conducted the long devalue phase, I didn’t even bat an eyelash. Hey, when you’re accustomed to be abused for seven hours a night, what’s an awful (what should be deal-breaking) insult here or there every five-six weeks? It doesn’t even fully register if you’re a very traumatized chump.

    • struggling^^^this^^^
      he wanted to buy a boat” Yes, mine heard that I wanted to get myself a sportscar cuz I deserved it from working my ass off, and he listened with intent. Next thing I know he’s buying the same exact car…a two seater sportscar…lied and said it was ‘for both of us’ and then when it arrived in our garage he did not allow me to drive it. I thought all along that it was because we were actually ‘still together’…little did I know miss fat ass slippery clam had her big controlling ho working ass sitting in it; that he actually bought it for the two of them from what I can figure out….mirroring me and what I wanted, he got the idea and voila ! he had a car of my specs purchased to please his whore ~! Also the time I wanted to go on vacation and he said he hated the Bahamas – then I find out that he was trying to go on a trip and needed a specific hotel (going thru work, pretending it was a work trip ) in the Bahamas for 3 days….Wow, taking whore on a vacation that I said I wanted to go on! I thought he hated the Bahamas. Nope just said that – I gave him another idea for him to impress his whore….wow, she lived a great life at my marital expense ! too bad he died and it blew up in smoke for the whore !!!

      • Mine DID buy a boat. Lied to me so much about how much he paid he would say a different number each time. I enjoyed ribbing him about that. Just another example of what a horrible, unsupportive wife I was to call out that he lied.

        He must have been over the moon that I did not contest him taking the boat in the settlement. I was so happy to never have to see it again. 2.5 years later he has had it out maybe 3 or 4 times. I’m sure someone was, is, or will be impressed by his boat ownership. Wonder how much it will cost him to ever get it working again.

        • Mine didn’t buy a boat. But he just bought his 4th motorcycle.


          • yeah what’s with ALL the toys, ALL the hobbies….is it to impress the whore or is it because they need to stay active/busy in order so that they won’t think about their cheating behavior and all this stuff that they do will cloud over they don’t have to ever have guilt or face what they are doing or how they are conducting themselves? I will give you this, they are definitely manchild because a real man would never do this to their wives or family. WE are dealing with boys. Not men. These are selfish boys and narcissists. I would say they are never satisfied with life, they have to constantly have some activity or hobby. I read the other day that they cheat because they seek admiration and if they are not being admired they don’t feel like they are in love with women unless they are being admired…..I would think that if you admired your wife she would admire her husband…it should be a two way street

            • Amen, duped!

              I felt admired for the first few years, but it was just love-bombing. Now I doubt he has it in him to love anyone. He can pretend to, but he doesn’t really know how to love.

              I think the toys and hobbies are indeed distractions from feelings or emptiness. Some of them who are not at the extreme end of the narcissism continuum may have twinges of guilt (or something that approximates it!). But mostly the feelings are probably icky ones like anger, resentment, and disappointment at not getting enough admiration. “I’m so awesome, but there aren’t enough people REMARKING about it!”

          • Mine bought 6 campers in 7 years, the last one while he was fucking the howorker. Soon as I found out, I listed it and sold it cheap. Talk about grandiosity! News Flash:::Now divorced and moved to another state, guess what he just bought brand new? Good Lord.

          • I know I’m late to the party, but I can’t leave without adding what mine bought. A bike with blow up floaties that he could ‘ride’ on the sea.

        • alloutofkibble
          I found out that my cheater was out on the boat allll last summer. Whore bag’s birthday is a month before mine, over the summer. He lied and said the boat was in the shop. Ohhhh really, I found all the boating pics of him being photographed on the ‘back’ of his boat. So I guess Whore bag was driving the boat and snapping his picture from the steering wheel. Must have been their big celebratory pre discard celebration. I can’t help but thinking they had it all planned to have some beach wedding and this was the pre tsunami that was about to hit me but who knows with him…he might have just been stringing the whore along to have cake and keep the nice me, the unsuspecting chump

      • I had loved to travel for several decades. Then I learned that my husband had taken one of his APs, who worked with him in a touring job, to almost every major city in the U.S. (concerts, meals, trips to meet her family!, couple’s massages)–while I was at home running a lab, working on a doctorate, trying to raise two little kids. He would disappear in a huff almost as soon as his plane landed at our home airport–after having been away for a couple of months. I still remember my elder son, very young then, standing in front of the door to our home perplexed as to why Daddy had broken Mommy’s printer and then left for God-knows how long to God-knows where. For a long time after D-Day #1, I didn’t want to travel anywhere in the U.S. because every city had been ‘tainted.’ Good thing I lost the wanderlust as my husband financially cleaned me out–so there was no money (and no time) for kids and me to travel once the divorce started. (Husband took several intimate partners away on exotic trips overseas, even if that meant skipping seeing his kids over school breaks (e.g., Christmas), about the only time he could see them, and even though he told the Court that he couldn’t/shouldn’t pay child support.) The only ‘away stay’ for the kids and me during multi-year separation–a stay in a safe house. Never figured out a good response to my kids’ question, ‘Why are we staying here–without Daddy?’ I’m pretty open with my kids, but I couldn’t bring myself to tell them, ‘Because Daddy is a threat.’

  • I am so jealous. I would love it if my X would move half way around the world!

    • “Leaving on a jet plane!”
      We’ll sing the song, have a farewell party, ( after they take off)!
      I”ll bring pies!

    • Ha mine did! I’m still in Switzerland and he’s back in PA! Sorry to gloat but it’s W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L!

    • I would love for my adulterous, disrespectful, lying exes to go to Mars–together. They can get on each others’ nerves far, far away!

  • My grey rock response would have been:

    “You sent this email to the wrong person”.

    That cheater probably put the identical call out to all his Chump harem.

    No way move to NZ!!! As gorgeous as it is minus that person. W…THE…F.

    Contact the Child Support Agency ASAP!

    Cheaters think the world revolves around them. They’re seriously delusional.

    Spouses who continually take the cheater back are just a comfy blankie kept on the back burner until the Chump says ENOUGH!

    Cheaters are always looking for that “better offer” around the corner. Plus they cost too much lol… too much money, too much time and far too much emotional investment. The bargain entails cutting them off asap in ALL sectors. ASAP! ASAP!

    Grab yourself a real bargain like yesterday!

    • Yep, probably put out the identical call to all his chump harem. Gotta take all the cake along.

  • Many of them want to reconcile when they learn how much CS they will have to pay, beware of that. Mediation opens their eyes to $$$. Don’t be misused by this liar.

    • Unfortunately I’m the one who will be paying out… mediation is hopefully going to get me a better deal than the courts would, because he says he doesn’t want much.

      • In that case encourage him to hand the kids over to you, buy that plane ticket and take off so you don’t ever have to see or deal with him again. Offer to pay for his plane ticket and his moving expenses in exchange for that being all you pay ever.

  • Focusing on one detail here, since the ludicrousness of the “plan” to move cross-planet has already been addressed by others: ChumpYOU, you told your cheater “Think. Why would I want to go to NZ and know no one there but you?” I understand the impulse to try to straighten out your cheater’s thinking, but there are two problems with your response:

    (1) You are telling him to do something (“Think”). This doesn’t work. He will do what he wants to do, and you telling him to do something (in the imperative, no less!) is only going to provoke some variation of “you’re not the boss of me”.

    (2) You are trying to get him to empathize (“Why would I …”). Cheaters don’t do empathy well at the best of times, and the brain-fogging psychochemical miasma of adultery reduces their already feeble empathic ability to nil. He wants to go to NZ, and therefore he cannot conceive that you wouldn’t also want to go.

    Obviously, what you’re actually trying to say is “No.” That’s what you should say. Perhaps, “No, that doesn’t work for me” if you’re feeling polite. The rest of the your response only detracts from your message. Worst case scenario, by justifying your decision (“I don’t know anyone there”) he will see this as a license to argue about whether your reasons are good enough. If you give him the opportunity, I guarantee he will find a flaw in your opinion: maybe “Everyone in NZ is so friendly!” or “In NZ it’s warmer in the winter than in the summer!”. I failed to do this early on, and my XW now tells me “your reason isn’t good enough” when I decline to do custody swaps.

    • Great points!

      Always remember that “No” is a complete sentence. There is no explanation warranted.

    • This is so true. I didn’t know WHAT to write back, but I knew I didn’t want to not respond. NO will suffice going forward. Perhaps with a crying-with-laughter emoji.

      • The subject of glamorous moving reminds me of my nephew’s life and death last year. For many years, he would campaign to be sent to rehab, but only if it were in a distant location of his own choosing. Each time, my sister would cave and send him, only to have him make friends with someone there and bounce. (Essentially getting a fun party vacation out of the deal.) Finally the family put their foot down on this game when my sister was almost financially ruined by it. I wish I could say that she closed her door at this point but she didn’t. She spent every minute she had for about a year policing him, but to no great effect. No job, no apartment. We also discovered that he had been using drugs the whole while, right under her nose. It was very sad to realize that a lot of what came out of his mouth was a manipulation, but better than being spun around driving him hither and yon only to find whatever resources you gave him: cel phone, computer, apartment, money, he only used to help him get in deeper. In October, my sister put him in a hotel, and we know he reached out to his drug buddies and then a couple of days after, died of an overdose. I often think that if only he had been able to tolerate being bored or boring he would have been able to discover happiness. Paradoxically the quest for the big thrill definitively pushed it away.

      • I say zero response to this craziness is correct. Any response fuels follow up. Freeze him out, even if it’s tough. Respond only to legitimate kid related issues in a reasonable business like manner. Seriously, ice cold.

    • “the brain-fogging psychochemical miasma of adultery reduces their already feeble empathic ability to nil”

      HAHAHA Involuntary Georgian, that’s AWESOME!!

    • My go-to line is,’I am following the divorce decree because I follow the law.’ It shuts down a lot of the garbage (e.g., abusive ex, ‘You should give me your weekend with the kids right now because I want it right now, father’s rights (completely misapplied in this context–I know fathers who have lost their legitimate rights to their children, he is NOT one of them), blah, blah, blah, parental alienation (on chump’s part), blah, blah, blah, etc.)

  • Seek legal advice immediately. The last thing you need is the kids deciding down the line that they want to go live with Dad in New Zealand because they think they’ll get to hang out on the beach and surf all day.

    • If they do, the court will deal with it then. Nothing the court does now will change that.

      In the USA, there is no such thing as a final custody agreement unless dad relinquishes all rights and allows a new stepdad to adopt the kids.

      Any custody agreement is subject to revision.

      If she wants to try and prevent the kids from wanting to do that she needs to make sure they are strongly bonded to her.

      There is no legal means to inoculate her against that possibility.

    • Well, I may be wrong but I had a simple no travel without consent put into my settlement agreement….

      • Yes, that works legally. I mean, it can be challenged (anything can) but assuming it’s reasonable and in best interest of kids it’ll hold up.

  • I hear you on the vacation while you’re separated with marital money. It’s infuriating and a slap in the face. And I think that’s the point. Satan emptied our savings account and then went to one of the most expensive places in the USA on vacation. He told me he took the money in order to survive without my income. Surprise! Surprise! That was a lie! Then, when i found out all of our money was gone, he told me that he spent all of our money “living it up” because he was going to kill himself… so why not have fun!
    He’s not dead.
    He’s just a selfish liar.

    • whatringofhellisthis
      Yes, it’s a slap in the face. When I think back on satan spending at least 15 years with this howorker (she bragged on her website she’s worked there 15 years) all the while the unsuspecting chump let him get away with financial abuse, while I paid for all my own clothes, and expenses – satan was spending ALL the marital assets on this whore who had two small kids/no husband (wonder why) and I “LET” this happen because I knew nothing about this Howorker. So now, all the assets are gone (he abused to the point where he would not let me be on accounts cuz (he’s)”in control”) so all these were red flags. Again so meanwhile, the money does not match what my cheater/liar made for salary. Was I asleep at the wheel? Probably, but there was no trying to have him be transparent, he was just such a conman, I realize now and liar in a charming charismatic ted bundy way…you’d never believe he treated his wife this way…Mine had every angle, work trips/extended into HOworker trips/ pretending to be on work trip/ actually spending marital cash, shrouding it as work trip…no direct deposit/just cash check and take cash…not traceable…etc etc. She made out like a bandit. I’ve yet to hear of a whore making out this great. And I was definitely worthy. But it was all about what he wanted to do. The crafty liar, sneak, conniving satan

      • Duped – we have similar stories. Im sorry for this happening to you. It’s sickening. Every time you tell how the whore and Satan conspired against you I just want to find her and shave off her eyebrows.

        No one should have been able to do this to me. I guess it was the abuse and intimidation combined with his lying and manipulation that kept me in a state of anxiety and fog. I’m not stupid. But with him, I look back and I’m disgusted with how he was able to con me. I felt like I was always 5 steps behind. I also couldn’t even believe it And sometimes he was able to shut me up with a plausible story. How could he be doing this on purpose? He’s pre planning shit to hurt me? And when I did catch him stealing and lying I had no ability to do anything about it.

        • whattheringhellisthis
          yes, I cannot believe it either. You are deliberately kept off balance. He was still asking me to go on trips, something deep in my soul said to say No I don’t want to go. That gave me a lot to ponder on later…was he asking me because having now found out about HO, was he asking me cuz he was keeping me off balance? Was he just hoping for cake? Was he conspiring to make HO HO ‘jealous’ ? all these crossed my mind. It’s such a mind fuck, or did he still ‘love’ me because he wanted me to go away on our honeymoon ‘just the two of us” I guess that was a play on words. Was he trying to pretend it would be romantic? Or was Ho HO also going, but going to be in another hotel room to make it extra thrilling that she could be along too without my knowledge, but get in a screw with him in her hotel room? I have discovered if your intuition tells you something or nags at you then go with your gut ! I’m not stupid either but he was able to pull off the greatest scam of the century.
          Mine was closed mouthed most of the time, if he didn’t talk then he did not have to tell me anything. I thought he was a lovely quiet man of few words. I think now it was probably that it was guilt without admission, no talk, no tell me anything
          Yes, I think it’s all pre planned. I think it’s plotted, its intentional, its deceitful. I think in my case they were both getting off on fucking me over. I think she was proud to have a ‘partner’ that was on her side, helping her succeed, whatever allll the stuff he did for her, I can only imagine. Won’t ever understand why he wanted to destroy me. I did nothing for him to do this. I will even go as far to say, and I have said it before, he hid money with that whore so there must have been a bigger more sinister plot that was possibly going to drop but was foiled with his death. I wish given she was in my presence at hospice without me even realizing it (what with the fact he had just died minutes before) I wish I had spun around, saw her and ripped her hair out of her head…I wish I could have done that ! I am pissed I did not get the chance, It was like some higher power did not want me to waste me time on that lowdown snake in the grass whore

  • CL Speaks nothing but the truth today. This has been my life. We moved multiple times under the guise of starting over somewhere new. Chumpy me went along always hopeful that things would be better but the reality was you can’t change someone’s character by changing their location.

    • This! See my story above. Thing is, I was the one that had the good jobs so it would be up to me to get another good job every time we had to move because he was dissatisfied. That works for a while but you might be pushing your luck trying to get “good job no. 10”. So glad I’m out of that nightmare!

  • OMG! Do not even consider a move with this idiot! This is such a cheater ploy…… me move ($$), get settled ($$) & then get dumped! Several marriages that I know of, that were on the rocks for one thing or another, decided to relocate, it did not end well for one of the partners. Guess which one you’ll be if you go along with this fantasy move.

    • This^ X1 moved us to another state where he had been working at job building a mall (a 1x project). Not long after our move (and many dollar$$ out of my pocket) not only is he unemployed, but suddenly I’m finding condoms in his shaving kit.
      Condoms… whatever for?
      Moved our entire family, on my dime, so he could be with Schmoopie while I worked! Bastard.

      • I feel bad for you, Born Free. My husband moved us across town, one week before he filed for divorce, after telling me he did not plan to. Moving with him could have been a very bad deal for kids and me as I was unemployed and could not afford rent in this new, significantly more expensive apartment. Fortunately, the previous year, although we looked at houses to buy and I looked for a job in another state (where he had accepted a job) that provided me virtually no opportunity and no relatives, I decided NOT to move. Thank God! If I had moved to that other (desert) state, I would not have been able to move back to my home state and thus not received the physical help of my loving kids’ grandparents, which was very important as I had to work full-time and Disneyland dad was gone 85% of the time at unpredictable, irregular intervals, and would have had to work at a very low paying job as the only types of jobs in that other state were in primarily one specific business in which I had never worked. My husband abruptly quit the job in the other state and then resumed touring the world. So very good thing I didn’t move out of state. Moving just across town with abusive cheater a week before he filed was bad enough. I still recall police coming to our new apartment, sitting on the still unpacked boxes, while I got kids ready for school…it felt like a scene from Breaking Bad or The Sopranos.

    • I would NEVER move with him! I don’t want to have coffee with him, I sure as heck don’t want to live with him again, move away from my life for him, anything!

      • I hope for your sake he does actually move to NZ…….

        Wishing you all the best with your new life!

  • My ex moved thousands of miles away… it is lovely.
    Some stress: kid coming off plane crying because he was afraid to fly alone, ex giving me only a week’s notice when he comes to visit, occasionally upset that I am not keeping him updated on kid stuff (all parents have access to online grades, go check it yourself!).
    Sometimes the stress as a single parent can be overwhelming, but so much better than when ex and I worked at the same place, and lived in the same town.

  • Tell him he can go live his dream after the divorce is final and all marital agreements are in place. In the meantime, get a good lawyer to make sure you are taken care of financially one way or another and won’t be affected by the cost of his fantasies. Maybe you get more assets instead of alimony/child support as that might be hard to enforce if he is in New Zealand.

    P.S. I have been to New Zealand. Glorious country. It would be a shame to have it marred by another fuckwit.

  • Honestly, as someone whose biggest headache in life is dealing with my #@#*wit ex, like the CL I would GLADLY send her anywhere she wants to go. The kids and I could live our lives in relative peace and sanity.
    Heck, I would set up a charity to ship cheating ex’s off to foreign lands. “Come to Cheaterstan — we don’t care who you f***.” I happen to like NZ, so we can’t send them all there. Is there someplace where the people are sufficiently awful that hordes of cheaters wouldn’t make it worse? Never mind, I answered my own question.,

  • CYmf having him move a long way away might have advantages, and it may just be that he is taken with a sparkly tourist brochure but I wonder how it might affect support or separation agreements? A lawyer could advise about child support implications?
    New Zealand is a nice part of the world, (scenic, fairly tolerant, peaceful) but totally understand you wanting to be near where you have support. Travel anywhere else from NZ is expensive, Not sure how far along your dissolution is but in case it makes a diff New Zealand is ‘no fault’ and doesn’t have alimony. Separation is needed for 2 years before divorce. For children tertiary study options are limited compared to US.
    More to the point why oblige some cheater who so clearly does not have your interests at heart?

  • My interpretation of his email is that it was a brain fart, something the disordered are prone to, and the best way to handle it is simply to ignore it and pretend you didn’t hear it, same as a regular fart.

    He’s not going to move to New Zealand, not with you and not with the girlfriend. He read some article on life there, thought, “Wow, that sounds nice,” and his brain farted out the fantasy about moving, and then farted out the email to you. It meant nothing beyond that.

    Ignore and continue on with the divorce. Watch out in mediation; cheaters are pros at spinning mediation to their complete advantage.

    • Hilarious! And so true… another fantasy fart!
      I will validate cheaters being pros at fucking you mediation… especially if you are prone to not setting boundaries and giving them whatever they ask for in hopes they’ll show you the same decency. Not, going, to happen! I live in a no-fault state where mediation is required. My ex lied about where he was moving to, so he could get the kid in the middle of the week. He also tried to paint me as an abusive, alienating mom. I was devastated over his legal accusations, on top of the affair and having to restart my life. But outside of court… texts about what a good mom I was and how much he loved and missed me… wtf… like CL says, “Enjoy your cognitive dissonance.”
      I had a shit lawyer I chose out of fear and hurry, who passively represented me; and he had a free family member lawyer. I’ve never felt so alone in my life. You’re not allowed to have any other support at mediation. It’s bullshit.
      I want to go back to court to hold him accountable, but will probably need a pitbull lawyer, considering my ex’s mean side comes out wherever I try to hold him to his word. Affording a lawyer is a bit of a luxury too. Ridiculous, the money making scheme, that divorce is.
      Still better than having to deal with a fuck face on a daily basis.

  • Cheaters are so delusional. So many times over the past 10 months I’ve thought Cheater Wife might be certifiably mentally ill or at least heading in that direction. It actually helped me to get “unstuck” and realize there was no relationship to be had- especially as it is likely this person is going to get worse into the future.

  • “For the low low price of doing it all yourself”.

    I think that gave me the most pause when Kiddo and I moved 6,000 miles away from Mr Fab and the Downgrade.

    But I did it-yes there are disadvantages-uprooting Kiddo even though it was her idea sucked and I now have no money BUT

    Kiddo got to grow up as a kid not a kid shuttling back and forth and getting ground down by having to deal with her aunt now being her Dad’s gf (He went the full Jerry Springer).Summer vacations with Dad were mandatory, but she just used them as an excuse to catch up with her less narcissistic family and friends. Mr Fab had contact with her less often. So she was able to draw her own conclusions. The self harming stopped about a month after we got here, Kiddo did well in school and is now out there adulting like a boss.

    What I mean is, whether your ex and Schmoopie are down the road or in another hemisphere, you wouldn’t have the toxic drip drip. Nor the BS about ‘he may have abused you but he will be different for his kids.’ He won’t. This is the principle that a lot of courts and society go by, that both parents are needed-but someone who cheats on their spouse cheats on their taxes and so on. Someone who blames a kid self harming on their ex instead of their shite choices is sociopathic. I think you trust he sucks but not enough.

    He has shown you who he is-getting either You and the kids and /or Schmoopie to relocate gives HIM an upper hand because you would all be in a strange place. It is just the next phase of HIS chess game to keep his ego inflated.

    Sounds to me like your kids probably don’t need to change schools and geography at this point. If he wants to go to NZ let him.

    Here is what I wish someone had spelled out when I was in your shoes.You cannot coparent with a sociopathic person and cheating is sociopathic. Thinking your ex will somehow step up and double down on parenting is the Hopium talking. In reality he will counter parent (Kiddo was 10, I had an online only at the laptop rule so she would sleep, but Uncle Dad got her an iPhone-result was more bullying to the point of Kiddo being suicidal, but that was My fault for being upset and giving Kiddo sucky genes)

    Wherever he ends up it will have to be your house, your rules when your kids are with you. Yep it is scary when it is all on you but ask yourself honestly-when WASN’T it all on you? Once you have it finalized you will be amazed at how much more energy you have for what matters, getting a life and raising young adults with backbones and hearts.

    Chump Nation has your back.

    • You rock. That’s all true. It has been 99% me for years, and that won’t change going forward. My kids do not need to change schools. I’m planning on moving house and that is upsetting enough to them. He continues to have BS with schedules which is annoying and not something I want to be dealing with for the next 13 years (youngest is 5).

      We’re in the early stages of mediation but I think it will move fairly quickly. Once things get finalized and a set routine takes hold I know I’ll be in a better mindset. The day I decided to divorce him I told my mom, I know I’ll be okay on the other side. I just hold on to that knowledge while I’m eyebrow deep in the shit of it right now. There IS another side and I WILL get there.

      • Damn straight. Another pro tip for Grey Rock part: no questions in your replies because that gives them scope to withhold info and drive you crazy.

        I hear you on the scheduling part, Mr Fab works in the Theatah, dontchaknow, it gave him great power to not let Kiddo or I know if her weekend would truly consist of Dad time or hiding in her room because she was left in the care of a coked-up Schmoopie.

        I always kept it to Cool, Bummer, Wow in talking with Mr Fab. And I figured out how to do it on next to no cash. He sent the minimum CS I will give him credit for that but it amounted to lunch money and hair dye. I did the rest, and so will you. Mediation is not gonna work, hit him with the Law.

        I’ll see you at the bar in the glorious Kingdom of Meh, not Middle Earth.

        ???? Meh

    • Excellent, Mehphista!!!!
      So happy your daughter is doing well!!!
      Keep on keeping on!!!

  • My goodness, this set off alarm bells for me today.

    1. Get a fricken shark of a lawyer. He’s gonna run. You’re not gonna get any money outta him after the divorce. He’s very clearly telegraphing to you that he’s gonna bounce.

    2. New Zealand rings a bell in that people used to hide there from here because there was no extradition treaty etc. It would hold true for any other country though… child support enforcement is difficult enough even in your own country. He moves there and he will just drop off radar.

    Get everything you want or need now.

    Also, based on his track record, does he have a habit of spinning up grandiose plans or getting partway into large projects and then not following through? That will tell you how probable an out-of-country move is. Unless Schmoopie is doing all the work. This one is going to abandon the scene completely, eventually, so plan accordingly.

    • I’ll agree. I should have gotten a lawyer and rushed the divorce when I first found out about affair. He would have been more likely to guilt-gift my shit. It dragged out for two years. A nightmare. By the later custody mediation, I did finally have a crap lawyer, but by then, the fog of affair wore off and he turned on me. I gave up almost everything out of fear.

    • I have the money. Good and bad – I will have to give him some. But I will definitely have some at the end too.

      He won’t move to NZ. He doesn’t start his grandiose plans. Just talks about them.

      He is from another country, so there’s a possibility he will move back there, which is fine by me. And Schmoopie (whom I call Stupid Girlfriend) is from Venezuela, so maybe they’ll go there and get tuberculosis.

  • Make sure to tell him about ambergris. He can make his fortune wandering around the beach trying to find strong smelling whale vomit (true).


    • You mock, but I am always thinking that I will find a lump of ambergris on a beach! I think that’s fascinating and I really want to smell it in real life. Does it smell good or gross? I know they use it in perfumes (that’s how I know about it from reading about perfume creation).

      • Wow! I’m surprised that you’ve heard of it. No personal experience on what it smells like. I believe it is used as a binder / carrier of the scent, not for the scent itself.

        In the wild it looks like a lump of dirty grease laying on the beach from what I understand.

        University of Chicago Press offers a free e-book every month and one month they had Floating Gold

        Since I have a passing interest in old sailing ships and by extension whaling I read it. Fascinating stuff.


      • There is an episode.of Bob’s Burgers where find a clump of ambergris and try to sell it,.they remark how.gross it smells

  • Consider the possibility that this was meant for the OW/Ap and was sent to you by mistake. Either way, yes, LET him go and count yourself lucky. I wish mine would go away. Its worth lost child support to NOT have to deal with a Narc as a co parent.

    • I agree – if he even is serious about this idea – this email was probably meant for somebody else.

      I think I’d reply “I’m not interested but good luck with that!” or else I’d reply “I think you meant this email for somebody else?”

      Most people aren’t lucky enough to have their cheater ex willingly move that far away. I hope you are! But probably this is just talk, a ague idea not a real plan.

  • Contact your lawyer immediately.

    In my state, a parent cannot move more than 100 miles without court permission if they have any custodial rights.

    If he does, he’s in contempt of court. Judges do not like having their orders disobeyed.

  • Ahhhh, the old “if only I had X I would be happy”game. Let’s see, Cheaterturd was famous for needing to find his bliss. Police Academy (dropped out- too hard), massage therapy school (finished but was an “important”enough job), Firefighter school (finished then quit his first job at day 2 because they didn’t respect him), EMT/Medic school (dropped out), Nursing school (dropped out two months before he finished (because there were no jobs out there so why bother). This in addition to a fleet of new cars, motorcycles, gun hobby, etc. And apparently chumpy me just kept believing if I gave him what he needed he would give me what I needed. I also didn’t realize that during this same time frame he was also jumping from affair to affair trying to find his bliss. I worked the same job this whole time supporting him. He also would dump “friends” once they called him on his bad behavior. Of course all these things should have been clues,to me that his character was broken.

    These types will never be happy because as others have pointed out life is hard and us regular people understand the good comes with the bad. They think happiness is some external “thing”. Sure, New Zealand is the answer! Said no one, ever!

  • There must be an article online somewhere. My cheater pastor ex also dreams of moving to NZ. The wanderlust is strong…he always looks gorgeous greener pastures.

  • Ha, I remember when the ex proposed a move away and start over, together.
    I kept thinking that would only give him more affair options and fresh ignorant meat, considering our old life was in a small town.
    He always dreamed of the big city, being from that small town; and I always gravitated toward small towns, being from a big city.
    Ironically, OW/wife is from his same small town, where they have shared history and she has previously slept with a good majority of his friends and has a history of being a sloppy drunk. He doesn’t drink, especially now that he’s super Christian…oh, and on probation.
    There’s a saying there, about not loosing your significant other, just loosing your place in line.
    I don’t live there any more…
    They don’t either.
    My ex’s whims to move change with the wind. I’ve been in the same place since we split; he’s moved 3 times in 5 years. I like moving and traveling, but stability is necessary when you have young ones.
    ChumpYOUMoFo, why not pick your own place to move, where you think you’d thrive and enjoy and let ex worry about himself? He may move to where you are, for a bit, then he’ll pull the same shit again… atleast mine will. That will be the thing that takes us back to court. Perhaps then, I will be better prepared and less emotional.
    Best of luck with you and your three children. It will get better. Find your support and stability.

    • There’s some poetic beauty to the phrase ‘ignorant meat’…. wow that made me laugh like crazy.

  • Fascinating. My Asshat, in the middle of discarding me (as I later learned, for a ho-worker) abruptly did an about-face from the distancing he’d been working overtime to create when he sent me this in FB messenger:

    “With our distaste of our jobs, I think that we should both look for jobs in another city somewhere, eliminate all assets in [Current City], move back in together in this other city. The idea of having a fresh start in another city with no one else but each other is an attractive one to me. It’s still leftover from when we talked about moving to [Other Cuty] a couple years ago. In a way we are leaving the past behind and starting anew”

    Come to find out that the other city he wanted to move to was NYC. Coincidentally, his ho-worker is/was from there.

    It’s amazing how they all use the same fucked-up tactics to mess with our heads and extract every last crumb of cake.

    THANK GOD I didn’t fall for any of that! I would have ended up quitting my job. Selling my homes here and probably ended up wasting a lot of cash on that asshole.

    So instead of starting a new life, we finally broke up at which point he immediately started shacking up with the Ho-worker. They live a block away from me in a shitty little house. They’ve been together for about two years now. Must be two-wuv. Hahahahahahaha.

  • So this cheater is moving to New Zealand, or wants to. Ok, he’ll likely move then and after a while, New Zealand won’t feel so new or zealous and he’ll move someone else, like Tanzania or some other location. But they never address their issues, they are never wrong, they are never to blame and they never change.

  • The escapism in cheaterthinkville. The elusive happiness of ‘if he’d would’ve just chosen door #2 instead of #1’. And it really is all about their happiness. This is who they are.

    When Dr. Cheaterpants went to court mandated counseling, all of both sessions required, after running off after howorker schmoopie #1 when our kids were 2 & 4 years old, he said he never saw himself coming back to our life. I was crushed. The counselor colored me a picture of who he was, saying he was dismature. I just thought I needed to try harder. As if working full time, doing all the chores, child care, everything wasn’t enough for this sparkly turd.

    The counselor asked me if I new why San Franciso had such a high suicide rate? He said many unhappy people go there thinking the beautiful city and sunshine would make them happy. But they were still their same crappy selves with their same crappy life skills. Ugh, who knew?

    I let that fuckwit come back home just before we signed the final paperwork. We had already sold our beautiful home, divided up stuff, the kids and I had moved into our own home. All I did was set myself up with many more years with a chronically unhappy man looking for the next fun thing to make him happy. Two suspicious secretaries until ultimately he runs off with DD14’s 20-something asst sports coach in our kids Catholic School. Yep, nothing like some young strange for a 50 year old doctor to perk him up.

    Break free quickly and never look back!!

    • what a dumb ass he is !! Does he really think that that 20 something year old is going to stick with him? a 50 year old is an old man to a 20 something….HA! He will definitely be kicked to the curb and feel the Karma bus coming down the San Francisco bridge !! If I were you I would just laugh and be glad you got rid of him ! Sorry you dealt with such a fuckwit

  • My family fucker cheater ex-wife kept hinting that if she had the money she would move away, far away.

    I built it into the mediation and she went for it, and moved far far away.

    Best investment I ever made. BTW I got all the money back within a year in the stock market, so double fuck her. LOL

    I win


    Best way to describe this particular version of Cheaperspeak…I got it too.

    Him: Im divorcing you for sure because you are a bad wife (and I have a girlfriend). Im moving to California, if you were a good wife, you would go with me.

    Me: Uh were apparently getting divorced

    Him:(to his whole family at his military retirement) I was going to take a job in ____, but Uni wont go with me, its a shame I dont have a supportive wife.

    So he claimed he wanted to wreckoncile, told me he broke up with OW, got a job in CA (in the same city where he got OW a job, but I neednt worry, with them all broken up and stuff)& flew “home” for “visits” but bullied us all EVERY DAY that we should move (he had promised us we didnt have to).

    I was finally 113 pounds, hair falling out and had hives…had decided to tell him not to visit or call…on the very call when I was going to tell him that, he said “Im coming home”. Cluster fuck.

    • Exactly! My cheater pulled this on me too. “Quit your job and run away with me to wherever and we’ll live off my amazing stock market investing skills — I have a secret formula that will beat the market 5x.” I spent months trying to figure out how anyone could be so stupid until I realized it was just him trying to blame the divorce on me. I later found he’d been cheating for years.

      Though right now I’d be happy with moving to New Zealand and opening a tea shop if only he’d give me full custody and get out of my life.

      • Yes, I spent more time than I ever should have untangling his skein of fuckedupness but one particular nasty knot was just that…he wanted a divorce but he REALLY did not want anyone to hold him accountable for it, so he was just as horrible as his basest instincts allowed him to be and he waited for me to leave him so he could be a victim.

        I once told him that his emotionally violent rages were more than I could bear and I was considering ending our marriage over it and he was nearly giddy at the prospect.

        I knew, deep in my bones that he wanted to be rid of me. when that thought came close to the surface, though, I would beat it down and spackle it away reminding myself of some half-human act of common decency he may have done in the past year. If I had had a full tour of his mind where his full contempt for me lived, I would likely have been so terrified that I would have felt without a suitcase.

        • Unicornnomore i absolutely experienced the same. He was a full on raging monster. The evil in him started becoming so obvious that other people started to notice it. I had no idea what was wrong with him but now o know it was something there on him all along. I cant even imagine what his thoughts must be like.

  • This is a ridiculous suggestion. You didn’t say your kids ages, but assuming they are school makes it especially ridiculous. And honestly it doesn’t matter WHY he suggested it, just know that your job is to ignore the fuck out of it and him. Never again respond to this lunacy. Do whatever it takes to dig deep for self restraint, compose terrible email responses and then delete them, but never again give this loser access to your inner world—thoughts or emotional life. Do the bare minimum required to fulfill your “co parenting” duties and respond only to emails and texts directly related to that, and treat them as business transactions. Be angry and vent with your friends, cry alone at night, do what it takes but cut this fucker off, now.

    It is the best decision I made. The bigger fit my ex threw to get my attention the taller my wall got. I’m not grey rock internally, but as far as he now knows I am done with him. The key for me was compassion for him (like, “I want him to pursue actual happiness, I hope he heals and can be a great parent for our daughter”) and kindness for myself (“he’s not my job anymore, I’m my job—my daughters my job). I still get angry but moreso now I crave peace.

    So, I’m your mind wish him well, and in your actions do well for you.

    • Love this! I feel like I WAS more grey rock in the beginning, and time taken its toll and worn me down and I feel weaker. But maybe it’s just less grey rock internally for me now – I am still hurt, but I don’t let him see it. I also want him to be a good parent, but he’s not my problem any more. I am sick of him trying to continually MAKE himself my problem, though.

      • It is exhausting but the mantra of “actions speak louder than words” goes for chumps as well as cheaters. Believe what people do NOT what they say, which is why when we catch cheaters cheating, we need to believe that action and not their words of denial or apology, etc. Likewise, every response to a crazy email like this is an action conveying your willingness to engage with him and his problems. Even a simple “no” response is enough fodder to keep him going on to the next communication.

        It took 2 months of me consistently ignoring all communications from my ex that were not 100% rational and custody or divorce related for him to stop with his nonsense, insults, etc. And actually, he did it for 5 months but the first 3 I didn’t ignore him completely, a big mistake. 60 days of solid boundaries to get him to stop. I spent a lot of time composing angry ranting responses that I then sent to my sister instead of my ex. Toward the end, it was just an eye roll and an archive (because you should archive all communication from him just in case you need to prove something like harassment). The change needs to start in you first if you want him to change. I kept saying to myself “be the big ocean rocking the boat, not the little boat being knocked around by the waves.” Be the ocean. Good luck!

  • My cheater moved across country when she realized she couldn’t buy out my half of the horse farm I bought for her so that she could pursue her dreams of being a professional horse trainer. It was the best news I could have had under the circumstances. We were able to sell the farm and I could get out from under the crushing mortgage. Even better, I didn’t have to move myself, which was my plan if she had bought me out. I now no longer have to worry about running into her.

    I know she blames me for losing the farm, but I told her over and over she couldn’t afford it even with the alimony I’d be paying her. If she’d wanted to keep the farm she shouldn’t have banged the hired hand. (Could she have been more cliche.)

    • Ah yes, the reality of divorce. Hits these people hard when the fantasy of a new life is marred by the financial losses of divorce. I’m in it now, my ex is having a hard time accepting that I get half our retirement accounts, including part of his pension. I’m being called all kinds of nasty names. Turns out reality hurts, but us chumps already know this.

      • When my now husband was married to his first wife, she lived quite well & never had to work. She decided to leave (chasing green grass somewhere) then said she expected alimony to continue to be a SAHM for the subsequent 16 years to their 1 child. He was like you “can’t have all the benefits of being married to me unless you are married to me”.

        He was very generous to make sure their daughter had what she needed …he paid 2x the minimum child support, all of her private school, all travel costs & saved enough to educate her even if her mom bails out on paying half of college.

        The XW has figured out that Im living the great life that she CHOSE to walk out on so she hates me but FTR, we didnt start dating until they had been divorced for 12 years.

  • I remember shortly after D day and in the throes of separation, my cheating ex had the absolute gall to ask me for advice on what he should do next. Bear in mind that he dumped me 5 weeks after my cancer diagnosis and at the start of over a year of hospital treatment and offered me literally no assistance to me whatsoever – just astonishing levels of gushing self-pity as to how hard it was for him. Anyway, my serious advice to him was to go and live in NY. My thinking was – it’s on the other side of the world, would be great to get rid of him. Of course I didn’t say why I was advising NY. I think he was surprised though, probably expecting me to plead for him to stay near. Hahaha, wake up call for Mr Narcissist. Would have advised somewhere in the further reaches of the galaxy if that was an option.

    • M
      you should have told him to go to fucking hell….GO live in HELL, pack him some sunscreen and Kick his F ass out !

  • Meh. As with most everything else it’s a set up for kibbles. Alot of you said it already …he just wants to be able to deflect blame.
    Mine proposed counselling a year and some later. He was an angry bitter person and he needed his wife to stand by him he wailed, etc. Cept the night before he’d been out to the movies with on of the ow.
    Did I mention what I knew? Nope. But I had a good laugh with my friends and family who all see him for the village idiot he is.
    By his own admission he just says things to see what happens. What a waste.

    • Now he can tell everyone that I refused to support him when he needed counselling. Thing is I met him after his appointment to deliver the kids. He said nothing about the session or even once sought to though we did speak after. I’ve called him a joke..the kind that is funny years later

  • New Zealand has enough cheating fuckwits already.

    We don’t need another !!@#$%^

    • Yes Ellexoh we sure do!
      We want to keep fuckwits out of NZ at all costs. We might lose our nice clean, green image!

  • OMG! they are ALL the same! Are you sure there isn’t a Cheater’s Playbook on sale at Amazon?

    X’s recent “fix” is…… (wait for it!). Yup! MUSHROOMS! If only the kids and I would start eating mushrooms then all of the Stars will align and X will be “happy.” Ugh????????????????????

    Crazy. Delusional. Insane?

    We’ve been divorced and NC over a year dude!

  • Sarah P. here again. I just can’t seem to stay away from the outrageous letters/questions found on this blog. (Outrageous as in the things cheaters do and say.) The advice is always 100% correct and witty. (Thank you, Chump Lady).

    But, I wanted to say something about the jerk who wants to move to New Zealand. I get the distinct impression that this emotionally constipated cheater is a quiet little plotter. And I suddenly got this picture in my head of him convincing his wife and the OW both to move to NZ while playing two ends against the middle. Or, this could also be about child custody. In my state, if the person awarded the children wants to move, they have to get permission from the ex spouse. Obviously she would be awarded the kids, but if he moves the NZ he knows that he will not wield any fatherly influence over his kids and visits will be few and far between. I feel like he has a situation set up in his head where he and OW move to NZ while Chump wife and kids follow. Then he can marry the OW in NZ and see his kids 50% of the time. And perhaps NZ law actually acts in his favor.

    There is more than meets the eye.

    I am not a plotter, but I have spent years hearing about the plotting and machinations cheaters are capable of and so I try to out think the cheater on behalf of the betrayed spouse I have been working with.

    This cheater is full of it, but I sense there is something far more evil planned about NZ. And it exceeds anything a few stray orcs could think of.

    Anyhow, just had to bring that up.

    Do not take the bait!! Like wolves, cheaters always have something else planned for the sheep that may not be obvious for the sheep in the field trying to respond to a wolf problem. Nothing is as it seems with cheaters.

      • Like that Robin Williams comment about “God’s design flaw.” Men have two brains, but can only think with one at a time.

  • Here is a different perspective. His comment was vague and it’s quite possible he intended to leave it open for interpretation. There was no mention of reconciliation, just relocation. Various other factors may contribute for the reason behind him doing this such as…

    -The OW has some sort opportunity to move there and he wants you and the kids to follow so he’s not inconvenienced.
    -New Zealand may have jurisdiction laws that override foreign court judgments.

    However, the #1 reason I think he did this is to throw you off track. You’re already in the process of divorce and his suggestion is not only very odd, it doesn’t make sense. Consider the motives and keep your guard up.

    • I agree on your reasoning. I don’t think he wants to reconcile really (and I sure as hell don’t). My guard is always up with him now. I trust nothing that comes out of his mouth. He lies too much.

  • To be fair, New Zealand is awesome (born and bred Kiwi)☺ But, would I move countries by invite of a cheating narc? Not ever. There’s bound to be an ulterior motive somewhere because it really is just such an off the wall suggestion. And if someone did move countries whilst they have custody of the kids, it wouldn’t surprise me if you weren’t able to move back if things didn’t work out.
    Steer clear of wild ideas and just keep being the sane one for the children.

  • PS-
    I definitely do not see this as a quiet bid for reconciliation on the cheater’s part. When a cheater wants something specific like reconciliation, he makes it known. For example, if this cheater one day woke up and realized he was losing everything and he wanted his wife back, he would be in the street with roses yelling, “Stella…!!!!” up to Stella’s window. He would try to arrange a date and present himself in a perfect light and he would say all kinds of things to get his wife back. He would shower her with presents too and bring up “ye goode olde tymes” when the family was one unit.

    He is just saying NZ is a nice place to move. If the chump wife were to move there and wonder where the reconciliation was, he would say, “I did not tell you we were reconciling- all I said was it was a nice place to move.” And then the wife would look at emails and realize her cheater never wrote long missives about reconciliation. He just copied and pasted some information about how NZ is a nice place to live and wondered what the wife thought. *Boom**

    Don’t let that happen. Cheaters are very deliberate.

    My cheater sent me a long birthday email (after he had been living with OW in our home for 6 months). He wondered how I was doing and said he could never forget my birthday. So, he sent me an email about remembering my birthday. I hit the delete button. Instead of getting fooled by the line he was dangling, I (correctly) realized that he was dipping a toe in the water because life had probably become boring. He wanted to pull me into a love triangle aka the “pick me dance.” Then he would have two women fighting over him. I would be fighting to get back into our home and she would be fighting to stay. A few people knew her and told me she was the skunk of all skunks. And apparently he was too. The two skunks wanted a dumb little bunny added into the mix to liven things up. I may be a harmless like a bunny, but I am not a stupid one. I saw through his motive and hit the delete button and realized there would probably be more to come. Some cheaters are really sick individuals. Some use the other person to fill that hole in their soul and go away. While others use the other person to fill the hole in their soul while doing everything to break the Chump emotionally and physically. They are truly sadistic in their nature and take tremendous pleasure in hurting innocents. This was my ex. So, I geared myself up for battle, knowing this would not be the last I would see of him. And it was not since the house was for sale. It took the house quite a while to sell. So, by the time I had to meet the cheater face-to-face for closing, I had my mom with me and a big, fat wedding ring on my left hand. The cheater almost fainted.

    The sooner you lose a cheater, the sooner you will be able to move on and find someone who really does want YOU and you alone and does not want to play sadistic games with your heart.

    I am one of the people out there who did not allow myself to get pulled into the game in any way (no matter how much it hurt.) Once the OW was moved in and I knew he had been cheating, I lawyered up and had all communication come through a lawyer so that the house could be sold. He wanted to speak to me? He had to call my (male) lawyer. He had a comment or a question- talk to the lawyer. He wanted to ask about a yellow washcloth and whether it was mine — lawyer again. He wanted to tell me about his unfair day — lawyer again. His parent got the flu? – still the lawyer.

    And the most outrageous one– he called my lawyer one day and requested I pay my half of the mortgage so that the OW did not have to.

    Really– ?? Really –?? I mean, he was a sadist, he was a cheater, but he also was not stupid either.

    Basically at one point during it all, he figured out he had let go of a silk purse for a sow’s ear and he tried to get me back involved with him. That’s when the birthday email was sent. Also — I had my lawyer tell him no more emails and definitely no phone calls.

    Cheater was having second thoughts? His problem entirely. Talk to the lawyer.

    In fact, it would not have mattered if one day he truly realized what he did to me and wanted me back with all his heart. I would NOT have gone back to him. Why?

    He had showed his true colors and he showed me colors that were so terrible there was really no “unseeing” them. If someone tells you who they are, BELIEVE THEM. He showed me who he was and he could have spent the rest of his life begging. It would not have mattered.

    He showed me who he was and I BELIEVED HIM.

    I probably spent several thousand dollars on the lawyer, but it saved my sanity until I could recover from the huge blow to my heart, self-esteem, and get rid of the absolute shock of him chasing me out of our mutually owned home just so the OW (he had been secretly seeing and lying about) got to move in.

    For any chumps out there, the two most important words are: EXCELLENT LAWYER. There is nothing better than finding the best, most bad-ass attorney out there. My aunt happens to be one of those and she has always gotten great settlements. So, find the biggest, most bad-ass attorney in your state even if the attorney wants a 10k retainer. Set up a GoFundMe page if you must. But if you retain the most bad-ass lawyer available, your case is going to turn out in your favor (even in no fault states.) The best lawyers know how to get around the laws in no-fault states so that the person who has been harmed gets a larger settlement. I have seen it happen, so I know it is possible.

    Next best piece of advice: move to one of the seven states that allows you to sue for “alienation of affection.” You can sue the paramour, if you wish. Even if they do not have anything, that is a-okay because it will drag their reputation through the mud. In some states it is still illegal to cheat and so if you want, get your cheater sent to jail for a few days. That will sort them out in the most amazing way possible. Male cheaters do not know the meaning of hell until a 300 pound man is on top of them groping around for goodies.

    Seems Chump Lady is married to a kick-butt attorney and has years of experience writing for the legal industry, so maybe one day she will write an article about the ins and outs of suing for alienation of affection, (Hint, hint.) :-))) I am not an expert– I have just read about the concept and it is deeply intriguing, especially for fellow Chumps like me.

    Many blessings,


    • yes cheaters are VERY deliberate , my observation is they think things through…nothing is a knee jerk reaction…the only reaction they have is guided by their loins….or the Viagra…or both

      • Yes, indeed they are deliberate all they have the Viagra prescription to prove how deliberate they are.

        My best friend and I talk about all these “victimized, clumsy men who walk around all day, just minding their own business, and then accidentally trip and fall into other women’s coochies.” Oh, such a tragedy. That poor, male victim always tripping and falling into coochies. Such unlucky fellows indeed, so wives surely need to have compassion for their clumsy husbands. **SARCASM**

        • sarah p
          yes they are so gullible. Any old crotch that gives them attention warrants that they fall right into that beckoning crotch
          Then they are like
          wow mind blowing ” this old slut is NOT after my money she just wants to F me and be with me…WOW, old gullible dumb husband is thinking, wow, this Ho gave me good sex…she must really like me…no dumbass she really really really likes your wallet …and she is turning into gumby and whatever to get into your pocket…dumbass….

  • What is it with NZ? My Ex always dreamed of going there. And of course after our divorce and the reality of EVERYTHING set in he decided he didn’t like his new life with OW. What he didn’t like was the fact that he had pursued his fantasy without any kind of reality. You can’t pay your alimony when you quit your job to move to Schmoopies condo in another state. Most real adults know these sorts of realities. My Ex returned a few months after our divorce was final. He was broke, jobless and terminally ill. I got suckered in and took care of him till his death about a year later. My advice is to remember that divorce dissolves our obligation to care for these idiots. Let him move to NZ if he wants to do so. Let him chase that blue bird of happiness, but YOU do your own thing! You are no longer “we”! You need only worry about you and the kids. Just make sure you get what you need in mediation, but make sure you can handle your lifestyle on your own because more often than not the CS and alimony dry up once they feel they are far enough away from U.S. courts.

  • I have nothing new or wise to add, so I’ll just say, he’s a fuckwit.
    Keep on being mighty, ChumpYou, you got this!

    About a year after D-Day, TEO did tell me that he was offered a higher paying job with the company he was working at the time, but it was in IL and that he turned it down.
    >>>> I’m going to have to post about his blow up on me that Valentine’s Day that year, but he was actually talking to Mrs. Dumbass, just acted like it was directed at me<<<<<
    I told him that DD and I would have moved, which made him tear-up, real tears, y'all!!! ???????????? Then he said that Mrs. Dumb-Ass (his OWife) wouldn't ever leave her family here in the area…
    Would I have moved? Hell naw! I only said that to make him feel stupid. I also reminded him that we had always planned on moving when my DS#2 graduated high school, which back then was a couple years off, again, tears… ????????????
    For years, he has bitched about being here in Alabama, feeling trapped and stuck due to my custody restraits of my two sons with exh1. I kept telling him that once DS2 graduated, I would have 20 years in the state retirement system, and I could just start over working in my field in another state, just hang on a few more years…
    Welp, that time is now.
    Instead if hanging in a few more years, he decided to leave me and our Autistic DD after 13 years together/married, DD was almost 7, for a 20-something single mom of two kids living with her parents.
    Meanwhile, just to be that kind of bitch, I might just go ahead and start planning on leaving in December. Just to fuck with him.
    The way it works here is that if I intend to move, I have to give him written notice. He has 30 days to file an objection in court, otherwise off I go.
    He hasn't paid child support in over six months straight, convicted felon, raising OWifes two kids. Fuck him.
    It depends on DD, right now she's in a really good "special school" for autistic/special needs kids like her. My oldest DS24 is talking about moving to Vegas, DS18 is still up in the air, hell, I might just plan on moving to AZ or NV with DS 24.
    Like Doolittle Lynn said to Loretta in Coal Miner's Daughter, "you're going to have to decide if you're your daddy's daughter or my wife" is what TEO may have to say to the lil Mrs.
    Stay tuned…

  • Hi fellow chumps! First time poster here.
    I am almost 12 months out from D-Day and have been lurking around here for 10 months. Thank you all so very much for your words of wisdom, experience, support, humor, and reality that, unbenknownst to you, have truly helped me survive this horrific experience of being chumped.

    What is it with cheaters always looking for greener, or rather, simply different pastures? My 15 years with CheaterLiarThief were spent chasing new jobs, new cities, new houses, new fancy cars, and the final nail in the coffin: new women.

    Why must they never be satisfied? In our time together (13 years married) he has had 7 jobs (his bosses didn’t appreciate him), moved us around to 3 major US cities, bought 3 houses, had 2 children, adopted 3 cats, picked up various hobbies and related equipment (mountain biking, skiing, yoga, book collecting, antique collecting) that he promptly dropped after participating in 1-3 sessions, bought himself a Porsche 911, then adopted a very large dog that I DID NOT WANT (guess who is taking care of that dog now?). All of these things produced short-term happiness for him and then the “happiness” soon expired. Finally, 3 years ago he uprooted the children and me from our happy urban home and community and brought us out to the exurbs because he needed a bigger house on an acre of land in horse country to bring him his long-awaited happiness.
    1.5 years after that reluctant (on my part) move I discovered in the trunk of that damn Porsche the evidence of an affair. I confronted him that night and was spoonfed lies of it being just one woman and only for 3 months blah blah blah and I bought it. Then D-Day # 2 occurred just 10 days later. After 1 week of pick me dancing and subscribing to Esther Perel’s B.S. and asking him to try a second marriage – with me! – I realized he had already left me emotionally. I demanded that he move out (but let’s be clear: he had already “left” but was just too cowardly to do it himself. “I just want to run away!” he exclaimed like a 7 year old boy as he literally ran out the kitchen and up the stairs away from me) and sent him apartment listings (because of course, in typical cheater form, he couldn’t find an apartment or pack up and out himself).

    I finally got him to move out 6 weeks post-discovery at which point I went into inspector sleuth mode and also went on an Amazon self help book buying frenzy where I purchased Tracy’s book (I’d signed up for a free month of Amazon Prime because CheaterLiarThief never allowed us the $100/year subscription. He also never allowed us cable TV but guess who got cable TV as soon as Schmoopie moved in with him, 3 months after moving out of our house? But I digress…). Upon my investigations, his one meaningless 3-month affair quickly turned into multiple affairs…married women, single family friend, Ashley Madison, a local married marriage counselor, and a work colleague’s wife…to secret bank accounts, a secret credit card, a secret cell phone, fake business trips, all those late work nights and baths at midnight when he came home (yes, he liked to soak in that filth each night) and who knows what else. I discovered enough of what I needed to feel confident about leaving that cheater, being the responsible, loving, present and sane parent to my beautiful children, and hope to soon start gaining my new and improved cheater-free life once our divorce is finalized (I filed in August. In typical cheater form, he refused to pursue a divorce, yet “he had been so unhappy for so many years and our marriage was already over.” Yes, his unhappiness I was fully aware of but I did not know that he was unhappy with me and I had not received the memo that our marriage was over.

    They are just never satisfied, are they?

    Well, the good news is that my water bill has decreased by about $12 every month since he moved out.

    Thank you, CL and CN. I am glad (and not glad) to have found you. Xo

    • Forward,
      I’m sorry that you, too, got the ‘I just want to run away from you,’ line and all the other crap. I got this twice–around first anniversary and then approx. a year after wreckonciliation. (Yeah, I know, I should never have reconciled with him. I couldn’t fathom living without him.) Second time was a month after being told that nothing was wrong with our relationship when I asked him if something was wrong. Sounds like a few of us were attached to pre-schoolers in middle-aged or older bodies.

      • Hi and thank you. I’m so sorry he gaslighted you like that. CheaterLiarThief too said that nothing was wrong. I even brought him to weekly marriage counseling for an entire year before our last move and he never brought up one marital issue. NOT ONE! My issue was that he was an absentee father to our young daughters (since birth. What kind of person doesn’t bond with his offspring?). He assured me that once he had a bigger house and more land he would be back to his former self. We uprooted the family, temporarily devastated the children and me, he got his mansion and acreage and BAM…it still wasn’t enough. I will never know if the cheating started after our latest move or if he had been doing it along. But it doesn’t matter anymore, does it?

        Yes, you are right, rockstar. Some of these men have the emotional intelligence of preschoolers…or robots.

        I hope you have found the strength to leave that cheating, stunted person. Hang in there! Xo

    • Welcome, and congrats on your first post! *hugs* Hope to see you ’round here more, in the future. xo

  • Thanks, Forward.

    My exes could open a Gas Lighters R Us company, offering a CostCo size inventory of gaslighting lies and deceptions. This week’s specials: Liar ex-husband (after confessing to paying prostitutes for sex during our marriage): ‘I never said that.’ Ex-boyfriend: ‘I told you that I didn’t want to be with you anymore because you didn’t have enough vacation (only 14 weeks/year)? I never said that.’ ‘You didn’t want to talk about our relationship when we got together at a restaurant to talk about our relationship.’ Later when chump says, ‘I wanted to talk, but you wanted to go home, saying you were tired.’ Liar: ‘Oh yeah. You’re right’ (telling the truth this time). ‘ Ex-boyfriend (with no incentive to lie as far as I could tell): She went home that evening, right after the game ended.’ (We all know how that goes. Lie.) and the best gaslighting line, ‘I love you’–half an hour after telling chump (me) that he is kicking me to the curb.

    I’m sorry that you spent a year in therapy with your dirtbag. My husband used therapy to beat me down through therapist. My post-separation boyfriend refused to engage in therapy with me or even talk about our relationship without a therapist–although he got pre-marital counseling with his ex-wife in the eight months between the time they met and the time they got married and after she repeatedly committed adultery during their fairly short-lived marriage and she purportedly emotionally abused him and kicked HIM out of their house. Such a slap in the face to chump.

    Thanks for wishing me strength in leaving my ex-boyfriend, but I didn’t leave–He kicked me to the curb for the last time several months ago and has since blocked me from his life and erased from social media any signs of my existence in his life–thirty years after meeting me.

    I wish you and kids the best!

  • I’m a kiwi living in my home country. Although I love welcoming visitors and people who want to settle here, cheaters can go fuck off. We’ve got enough already.

    Your X has a grass is always greener syndrome, he’d be a dick wherever he lived…

  • I’m a clumped Kiwi currently living back home in NZ where some do shear sheep and play rugby but others follow global affairs, drink fine wine and eat magnificent food and enjoy friends family and fun ie much the same as life in the US …without the character disordered leader but unfortunately still at the mercy of his mind-numbing ignorance … I digress …

    We’re a generous people so feel free to send your ex here. He’d be in good company with my ex of twenty years … and there’s lots of wilderness for him to wander aimlessly in trying desperately to find himself …it’s paradise here for the eternally dissatisfied …

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