Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

Dear Chump Lady, He wants a character reference

Hi CL,

I was married for 25+ years to a serial cheater, liar, sex addict, abuser, manipulator (yeah, he was all that and a bag of chips). I finally threw him out last summer and we were divorced last fall — best thing I ever did.

We haven’t communicated much (a good thing), but we do meet briefly once a month or so, to coordinate a monthly settlement payment and legal paperwork. Also, our college age son is living at his dad’s house, and we’ve had to discuss issues about him.

Like so many cheaters — less than two weeks after being tossed from my house, my ex moved in with another woman with several kids, who is still in the process of a divorce. He love bombed her, rushed the relationship, and told our friends and family that he was thinking about marrying/buying a house with her, that they were “meant to be” — all after supposedly only knowing her a few weeks. I’ve just stayed out of it figuring he is still the same old loser he’s always been.

Last time we talked, though, he out of the blue asked, “Would you be willing to talk to my new girlfriend? She wants to communicate with you about what kind of person I am, and learn more about my background.”

After picking my jaw off the floor, I said, “Are you sure about that? Because I wouldn’t lie to her about anything. At all.”

He said, “I know, I’m not asking you to.” He claims he has been totally honest with her and that he is a changed man.

I told him I’d have to think about it. Some part of me feels like “Yes! Time to release the truth hounds! Maybe this woman/victim can be saved from throwing away years of life, love and trust on this truly awful human being.”

But mostly I think I am just being played somehow, since he is the one asking and since she has clearly rushed into things, too. I think they’ll just write it off as “see how crazy the ex-wife is?”

Should I just walk away? Or should I have “the talk” with the new woman in his life about what I really think of him and what kind of person he is, if the opportunity arises?

Thanks a million,

SummerGirl

Dear SummerGirl,

Oh man. You asked the wrong person. I have a big mouth. I would relish nothing more than to provide a character reference for a “serial cheater, liar, sex addict, abuser, manipulator.” I would probably come armed with PowerPoint and Excel spreadsheets, flip charts and a whole freaking multimedia display complete with laser pointer. She could take the whole mess — his dating profiles, porn, furtive emails, decades of double life evidence — home in a monogrammed duffle bag. My Trust That He Sucks public service campaign would be complete.

But I have the nagging feeling this is the wrong thing to do, as delicious and irresistible as it would be. See, SummerGirl, I have this weakness of trying to speak truth to stupid. At the end of the day, I’m still a big chump, and think I possess superpowers that compel people to do The Right Thing. (The thing I want them to do, of course. I’m noble that way… [cough].)

All the evidence points to the fact that she knows exactly who he is — a cheater — it’s just that she, like countless affair partners before her, thinks that she’s Special. Oh no, he’s a changed man. It’s different with her. Her love is the perfect love that can save him. You were awful and you misunderstood him, but she is the Fated One, whom the heavens bless. This relationship is a guaranteed train wreck, but no, They Love Against the Odds and they will win!

Truth meet stupid.

Was it a coincidence that she divorced at just the same time you threw him out? Is there a dating site for recent divorcees who want to shack up together in under two weeks? No, SummerGirl. She’s just another OW, and you don’t owe her anything. Except to stand by and let karma flatten her.

Your ex is a practiced manipulator. I can’t untangle the skein, but I can guess at a couple motivations for such a stupid request.

a) He’s so narcissistically delusional he thinks you’d really tell her how wonderful he is, and it would be extra kibbles for him.

b) He’d like you to come across as upset and angry to his schmoopie about their affair, so he gets the hit of how naughty they are. And you unwittingly add that extra frisson of torridness to their love life.

c) He wants you to play straight man to the No, He’s Really Changed! routine.

I think it’s “c.” I imagine such an encounter would go like this — you would present evidence to her that he’s every bit the disordered wing nut and she would go “Oh no. He’s totally changed now. With me, it’s different!” And then she might trot out the incredible character changing remedies they’ve tried — he read a book! He went to counseling! He had past life regression therapy! Then with great condescension she would “apologize” for taking him from you. You’ll just have to understand SummerGirl, that it was bigger than them both, and you failed to love him the way she loves him.

I think you’ve got better things to do than listen to her crap. They’re two people doing crazy, irresponsible shit. Why? Because they want to. They’re either self destructive, narcissistic, delusional, or all three. I’m sorry children are involved. That makes me want to pull out the super suit and cape and save her from her stupidity, but it’s a force bigger than us both. The stupidity cannot be denied.

SummerGirl, I think the way to play this is leave them the hell alone. Go no contact (or minimal contact, considering your son.) If he asks? Your reply is:

“I’ve got nothing to say. I think your character speaks for itself.”

And then stand back and get on with your life. I hear the whistle of the karma train…

This one ran before. Karma train is probably to the North Pole by now. Early morning at Che Chump. 

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
    • JWH, Wow. Thanks for the link to the heartless-bitches.com “Special Someone” article. EVERY single point perfectly and accurately described my special pharmacist partner of 12 years who cheated on me with his “Special” coworker.

    • Well now I am convinced that Schmoopie is special and will do just fine. She has no life of her own and so has nothing better to do than let her universe revolve around ex. He had better be careful, however, because if he doesn’t let his universe revolve around her sufficiently, she may have to go searching for someone who will.

    • Holy shit. That is my ex, right down to the adult son paragraph. This gave me goosebumps.

      Oh, how I wish I could print this out and send to OWife, but I won’t. And what good would it do anyway? She’s the “special” one.

    • That may take a while. The OW still hasn’t figured out what a douchebag SHE is.

      The kids will probably figure it out before either ex or his schmoopie do. Let’s hope so, anyway.

      • she is just as delusional as he is.. ..
        “The OW still hasn’t figured out what a douchebag SHE is”.. . so very true. She really has no idea her part in the destruction of my marriage. she believed all his “poor me” stories on how badly i was treating him and how he just cant do anything right. She came to his defense against the wicked bitter mean old hateful wife. She wasnt going to LET Me hurt him anymore.. ..

        ironically 4.5 years later and he is cheating on her now. AND SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT. she is posting memes about cheating on a loyal woman and how she is only interested in stability, respect and loyalty.. .. .HAHAHAHA it never bothered her that he was NOT loyal to HIS WIFE and children. But now he is a fool because after keeping him on a very short leash and being glued to his hip, she STILL couldnt keep him from cheating on HER!!! now he is a jerk, cold hearted snake, POS loser. .. .. and yet she STILL has not connected the dots that she is the same as him..

        i just sit back and watch the karma bus run their asses over. and i am so happy i got off that crazy train. i have peace and happiness. neither him nor she will ever have that. my kids have figured out that bio dad are not worth the time and effort to chase him and get a few tidbits of attention. now that she “broke up for reals this time”, he is living in an abandoned house. no job, no house, no apartment, no money, no electricity, no water, no heat.. no kids, no girlfriend, no phone .. .. just nothing

        • Kind of like my cheating ex posting “cheating is the most disgusting, hurtful and disrespectful thing you can do to someone you claim you love” when he found out schmoopie was stepping out on him. Never once acknowledging that is exactly what he did to me. Makes your head want to explode doesn’t it? Still, I do love the smell of Karma in the morning.

  • ……he read a book! He went to counseling! He had past life regression therapy! ……He was delivered from an unclean sexual spirit!

    They will and do say anything to convince the new supply and the old they are on the level.

    Just the title of this one had me holding back the giggles. Everything you say good or bad will be twisted to sure up the support of the new supply. Even if you don’t talk to her will be used to his advantage so as friend wouldn’t say “you cannot fix stupid” so don’t waste your time.

  • There is no reason to talk to the OW. There is no reason to tell her anything that went on in your marriage. Or to tell her that he is a changed man. Let them have each other. Let karma visit them. You owe either of these cheating idiots anything.

  • “I’ve got nothing to say. I think your character speaks for itself.”

    Perfect !

    I love you, Chump Lady ! 🙂

    • Nancy, “both of them talking about him” exactly.
      AND, no doubt they would both just love each other. ( cheater told me she is really really nice, he was sure we would get along and really really like each other).

      Chump Lady’s once again, right on, assessment, “narcisstically delusional”

      In fact I “really really like” that statement, ” narcisstically delusional”
      Kinda says it all for me.

      THANK YOU CL!

  • Let it go.

    I do understand – the urge to try to continue to have some degree of control over these fuckwits is strong in even the most Meh of us. And when it’s offered to you on a plate – bonus.

    But really, don’t do it. Work on Meh instead, where you actually don’t care that he’s with someone else, because your life is far too absorbing for trivia of that kind.

    And while we’re at it, cut the contact. These monthly meetings sound unnecessary – isn’t that what lawyers are for? And why are you still talking to this waste of space? Parenting software makes conversations of most kinds redundant.

  • 1. College aged kid with issues=he has a voice of his own and as an adult can speak to each parent on adult terms. No. Need. To. Discuss. Anything.
    2. Meeting once a month for financials=I’m still in charge of you. Email, communicate with lawyers.
    3. Serial cheater, liar, etc=not going to change. EVER
    4. Meet with girlfriend?=hopium. You still think he’ll apologize to you. That telling the ‘truth’ will help? NOPE. You’re being played. He’s still central.

    I say go no contact. No longer your responsibility. As long as you continue, you are delaying your own healing.

    • Two weeks before I found (18mths ago)CL I did this. I didn’t meet up with her but sent her a msg telling her what he had been like to me. Her response was something along the lines of… “ I don’t want you to be hurt and I don’t want it to affect your sons”. I replied “ well I am hurt and my sons have been affected “. She responded with, well I guess I have a lot of thinking to do. Especially about the cheating.”
      They moved in 2 mths later. Still together.
      As CL has said before,” it’s not that they don’t see, they just don’t agree”.
      They’re too special( better than you) for it to happen to them.
      Don’t waste your time or your breath explaining anything.
      Spend that time with a good friend instead. X

    • No doubt he also uses these monthly meetings to triangulate and control the girlfriend. “See, I am still friends with my ex. We get together once a month. After all, we did share, and still share, so much. When you have a child together you are deeply connected forever.” Subtext: “DANCE BITCH! Don’t you see you still have to prove yourself. See how much she still loves me. You will never be connected like that. WE don’t share a child. You still have to show me you are worthy. So, let’s see your best ‘Twu Wuv Tango’ and ‘Fuck Me Until You Forget Her Fox Trot.'” Narcissistic delusion requires a LOT of engineering to keep the kibble machine dispenser flowing.

  • Hahaha…I was hoovered for three weeks solid by my cheating, lying, manipulative ex trying to get me back. TWO DAYS after I ended it for good – it wasn’t easy – I get a message from a woman looking for character reference (with his permission) about him because she thinks he is “the one”. Yep, he was scouting OW online while begging me to come back. Yuck. I just ignored it.

    • Yep, same thing happened to me between his discard of ow & new gf. New gf is the one who informed me & said she would step aside of there was a chance of me & him getting back together (for “your kid’s sales”). I said oh hell no, I don’t want to get back with him for my kid’s sakes & mine! You can have him! She knew he was lying to her yet proceeded to move in with him. What-the-fuck-ever!

      • The kicker is while he was harassing me daily, hourly even, to return to him he had put his status as ‘in a relationship’ on facebook to convince me. The new online OW spotted it so she got suspicious…BUT he was also seeing a different OW at the time so she even asked me if she should be worried about me or the OW – who I knew nothing about lol. Like you said…what-the-fuck-ever…you’d think she’d of had a clue what he was by then without a character reference lol!

  • I don’t see what good can come of this. Both his and her ability to rhinkmworh sense and reason is lacking if it exists at all. Nothing you say or do will change their terrible character. It sounds like you can also cut th monthly meetings. There are many ways to communicate if needed on financials, and if son is an adult you are lucky to get a pass on having to discuss him with your ex. Take your freedom and run to a new life where you are appreciated and loved – and away from his drama. Girl he is pulling you down and you don’t need that!

  • Don’t waste your time.

    About two years ago, XH’s then-GF (they started dating after the divorce) contacted me, wanting to know the “real” story of why we broke up, saying he wouldn’t talk about me. I told her everything, relishing the opportunity to finally tell someone in his life the truth.

    Turns out the “GF” was a married woman with two kids still living with her husband. And my XH was in the process of breaking it off with her.

    She continued to send him messages begging for the relationship after hearing my story. She did not care that he was an abusive cheater.

    Next time one of these women contacts me, I’m just going to send her to my blog and call it a day.

    • Other women couldn’t care less if their new boyfriend happens to be inconveniently married. They have no morals or character and truly believe that they are So Special that their platinum pussy can keep that bad boy in line. Hahahaha Delusional narcissists indeed.

      Summergirl, go no contact and resist the urge (I know, I know….so strong) to let the OW know what a slime ball she’s dealing with. She’ll figure it out. In the past I’ve tried to warn women of danger and they don’t hear a thing…..just truly believing that this time it will be ‘different’ because of their superior specialness. (more laughter from the gallery)

  • She already knows what he is if she really is the one pursuing the talk with you about his character. Whatever reasons either of them have for wanting to discuss their relationship (smells like a triangle with a heaping serving of cake) has no benefit for you.

    How many women are lining up to date Tiger Woods still? His lousy character was forced upon the world in every news outlet available, but still some women think they are the super special ones to change a cheater. Your input will not change her mind, it will likely only reinforce to her she’s more special than you and you just couldn’t do what it takes to make that sad sausage happy.

    Sigh. You have much better things to do like wash the laundry, watch paint dry, read a book, go on to live that awesome, cheater free life!!

    • Think of murderers in prison (Scott Peterson at San Quentin comes to mind) who receive fan mail from women who want to save them, marry them, etc.

      • And he’s so dumb he picked Amber Frey for his affair partner, who didn’t know he was married and was PISSED OFF and helped put him where he belongs. Proof that we don’t have to get our hands dirty….just stay in your lane and keep driving toward Meh!

  • Absolutely NO! You shouldn’t even bother with him or OW. He’s using you for a character reference?
    Just deal with him when you have to & kick his cheating ass to the curb. Respect yourself he clearly doesn’t. 😟

  • If he were a “changed man”, he wouldn’t have asked you to do this.

    Don’t do it. It’s kibble, a trap, a delusional idea to peg you as crazy and him not have to pay support anymore. Ignore the request.

    Although I’d be tempted to say …

    “How dare you!” Make it dramatic, haughty, and hang up.

    “No, my book isn’t published yet, and I don’t want to give anything away.”

    “It’s nothing I haven’t already told your mother. Tell chicky-boo to talk to her.”

    • “My book isn’t published yet”….

      LOLOLOL!

      Yeah, she can wait to read it like everyone else!

      This is my FAVORITE response…thank you so much for the laugh!

      In some cultures it is believed we are born with a finite number of breaths assigned…don’t use any more on him.

      • PS…I’m not tipping my hand to ANYBODY
        he hooks up with. I don’t want to interfere with the balance of nature! Plus, why spoil to movie when I have my popcorn ready?

        In my own case, I have a friend who is a retired Navy SEAL. I’ll be asking him to do security clearances if I get asked out for coffee.

    • Well, I hope that his mother sided with you. My ex MIL tells people that the “girlfriend came during the divorce”. Image control from her also.

      • Yeah, my ex MIL once told me I was, and I am quoting not paraphrasing, “bad breeding stock”.

        I said “Last time I checked, I’m not a cow, and nobody has any plans for breeding me.” That knocked her silent.

        Their whole family is nothing but poison. I couldn’t be more delighted that I didn’t end up subjecting any beautiful and innocent young human beings to their extreme sociopathic narcissism.

  • About two months after my cold-as-ice Exhole walked out on our family, my mom got a knock on the door from an investigator who needed a character reference on exhole for a government job (my ex was military and was trying to get a job at the FBI). She was polite and kind and eventually said, “well, he cheated on my daughter and abandoned her and her two kids so I’m not quite sure what else to say about his ‘character’. If you need more info, you can talk with my daughter.” I never heard from the investigator. Lol

    • There seems to be an attitude on those investigations that that behavior doesn’t reflect poorly because you must just be a bitter person out to discredit a man who is serving his country. I also think that narcissistic behavior is endemic in certain careers and they are supportive of each other’s behavior. I hope I’m wrong, but the evidence is strong.

  • Oh dear Lord, I got something similar (though not completely identical) from the Twat. About six months ago he wrote me and said he was taking new medication (for bipolar) that seemed to be helping him but his psychiatrist wanted to go deeper into when he went off the rails. So his questions to me were “when did I become a bad husband, when did I start treating you badly” and so on. Could I take 10 minutes????? or 10 hours and try to put together a whole scenario of when it all blew up. No holds barred! Now I actually did write a play-by-play write up of his behaviour for about 6 months in 1995, where it showed how fucking awful he behaved probably every second day. The beatings, the drink driving, the not showing up for the kids when he promised and so on. Just that alone has been enough to bring it all back to me. I actually had every intention of doing as he asked but I also felt I didn’t want to push him over the edge (we have kids together). Then I got busy. Then I got really busy. Then I got even more busy and just never found the time. And so I never did it and probably never will. I don’t need that hassle and I don’t want him taking up any more head space. I agree with the others, don’t do it. To me it just sounds like a narc wanting two women discussing him and it probably won’t “save” the latest gf either!

  • Dear SummerGirl,

    Since this is a previously run article (not sure when) I am here to say that I hope you followed CLs advice and didn’t bother. 2 weeks is a little soon for a cheater to find this new (conveniently divorcing) love to cohabit with and live happily ever after. If your ex was a serial cheater, she was just one of the many. The only thing she deserves is Karma.

    Not to mention the fact that she wouldn’t have believed you anyway.

    Also-please stop contacting him if you haven’t already! Adult children=no contact. Financial issues=lawyer. No sense in making yourself a hypotenuse in his fucked up triangle! I hope you walked away!

  • I am on board with many of the comments above. I know this story ran before, so I’ll speak to it generically.

    The ex is an adult. With any luck, so is the ex’s new interest. Their relationship is between them. It is up to them to work it out. The adult son may still be transitioning into his ability to work out his relationship with his dad (and any of his dad’s people) on his own, but as an adult, it is an appropriate time for that transition, however painful.

    To the ex, I think a simple, “I thought it over, and I have decided that it feels inappropriate to me, so the answer is no.” is sufficient.

    You don’t owe the ex reasons, so if pressed, you could give a simple, “The reasons aren’t open for discussion because it’s not open for negotiation. I’ve made my decision. I am here to coordinate with you about [adult son], so let’s get back to that.” then bulldoze on through with the new topic.

    As chumps, we often feel like we have to explain our boundaries. You don’t. It is almost always true that the decisions you have made for your own well being are good enough SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE THEM. No explanations required.

    And even when an explanation IS required (your boss, a police officer, a customer, a beloved friend or family member), it is generally better to state the reasons you give in a way that doesn’t allow negotiation. People who want to manipulate you generally ask for reasons, then start refuting them all. They don’t is, whether consciously or not, because it makes you feel outsmarted and/or unreasonable so you will have and do what they want. It’s just another gaslighting technique.

    Setting boundaries is uncomfortable. Maintaining them is exhausting. That said, generally, the clearer the boundary and the better the maintenance you apply up front, the less BS you have to deal with down the road.

    • Also, never underestimate the tools available in the marketplace to record your behavior on audio and/or video.

      Don’t make it easy for a lying cheating douche that values impression management to publicize you in a bad light.

    • @Amiisfree; Great point about not having to explain our boundaries! I jus realized I go overboard attempting to explain why to justify a boundry. I need to stop doing that. My boundry, my reasons. I don’t need to explain. Thank you for your helpful post!

  • I woke up filled with piss and vinegar. A character reference is wanted by the douchebag? Just because he wants one, I wouldn’t do it just to piss him off!

  • I wouldn’t reveal boo to the OW while your financial settlement isn’t fully done. Because if she tells him what you said he could punish you financially. These people love games. Don’t play.

  • Priceless isn’t it? The Ow wants a reference.

    Or so he says. Chances are he’s been dating others.

    What I know about serial cheaters is that they’re lazy and rarely leave until they find someone willing to let them move in their home.

    Bless her heart. She took all that off your hands. No returns.

    • BINGO! And if they’re pushed out before securing a new victim, they tend to hoover us. If that doesn’t work, they hoover other past gf’s. Yep, they must have a script.

  • If you really have to talk to her, tell her how great he was at the beginning.
    Describe concisely how it went after if she really asks about it.
    But emphasis on how great it was at the beginning, and let her talk.

    I’ve talk to “my” OW. She was mostly in denial. So innocent (naive?) and full of hope. It crushed my heart.

  • My ex’s new bed buddy tried aenome a letter about how he’s changed, better, needs no help now…lies from a fellow addict. Being completely disengaged from them is the best thing I could have ever done for my sanity

    • These exes are amazingly narcissistic. My last boyfriend in an email told me shortly after he discarded me last time, ‘I’m trying to do better…’ I asked, ‘For whom? Your new partner?’ He didn’t apologize for his mistreatment of me over the years and his dishonesty. He acted as though treating like a queen the woman he left me for ‘made up’ for him treating me like garbage. How does that work? I guess that he is ‘doing better’ with his new partner as he still works at the same company where he is an executive and she is one of his subordinates and he moved in with her almost immediately and is still there. I still wonder whether he cheated on me although I shouldn’t think about it nearly 1.5 years later. Cindy’s idea to completely disengage seems the most productive. Regarding references, I might say something akin to, ‘I don’t provide references for people that I can’t endorse.’

  • I dunno- it seems like a great way to lure out a slander suit against you, especially if she records it. She’d at least be a witness against you, I’d think, in the midst of your “settlement.” He has no card left to play and so, he’ll use your own words – at his invitation – to create one?

    • A note about slander for chumps in other situations… In many cases if/when your ex or ow/om threaten slander, it’s usually just a tactic to hush you for their own image management. ITS NOT SLANDER IF YOU CAN PROVE WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE! So don’t let anyone use the threat of slander against you as a form of control.

  • In what reality does a cheating ex ask for a character reference, is the ow, the same or more deluded than him. She should say “when you have character worth knowing, I’ll give you a reference”

  • If you want to write something, I’d keep it to a few sentences:

    “In our marriage, X was repeatedly abusive and unfaithful. Because of how he treated me, it is vital for my own well-being that I have as little contact with him as possible. Whether or not he has changed, will change, or wants to change is no longer a matter I concern myself with. Please respect my wishes by not trying to speak with me about him again.”

    It’s theoretically possible she wasn’t an OW, so I think she at least deserves enough heads-up that you can clear your conscience re: her – especially since she has kids involved. For all you know, she was the Chump of her current divorce and her biggest fault is being hella gullible when it comes to cheaters.

  • I think it’s possible he wants her to spill the beans as a way to sabotage his relationship. He wants out but doesn’t have the balls to do it himself.

  • I don’t know what his motivation is here but it can’t be in your best interest. Stay out of that situation, it’s not your problem. No contact, gray rock. Don’t let him suck you into his drama

  • Wow, the Dickhead would never ask me for a character reference. In fact, he makes sure that none of his women talk. That way he can lie all he wants and no one is the wiser.

    Don’t do it. Nothing good will come out it. You could give it your all and afterwards, him and her will sit around with a cup of coffee and compare notes, and you will still come out with the short end of the stick. She got involved with knowing what was happening. You don’t need to provide a play-by-play recap. Thanks, but no thanks.

  • Although I know CL is right, I know me and I know I would dish out the real deal very quick fashionly. Yes, I know all these dumb whores think they’re special; I’ve been talking about that for years now myself, but I can promise you that whatever she’s left thinking or believing, my words would stay in her head. The pictures, texts and emails I found on my ex’s phone would be like tattoos on her brain. I’d tell her everything if for no other reason than to have a good laugh when the house of cards tumbles down for her, too. At least she was warned!

    Lol. He would soooooooo regret asking me to talk to her. I’d enjoy it almost as much as he enjoyed screwing ME over. Heheheheh, is it funny now on the other side?

  • I never understood Mr. Sparkles DESIRE to introduce me to the OW and then subsequently to the new GF. Triangulation certainly comes to mind. He gets off on it somehow.

    We share a son, yet I declined both times to meet these women. To what end? If I didn’t like them, would he leave them? If they didn’t like me, would I care? If they broke up, would I be blamed. My only concern was for my son and I gave him a cell phone so I had “access” whenever he was on visitation.

    As for a character reference, even though I had printouts and proof and powerpoints, the OW actually said to me, “I’m not interested in his past with you. He has already told me everything.” The irony is that what he pre-emptively told her was a lie! (Shocking.) For example, he told her that he knew that I had installed spyware on his computer and when he caught me, he intentionally went looking at porn and placing personal ads and responding to personal ads to PUNISH ME (how’s that character looking)… but the truth was I had the invoice showing the date I purchased the software and it was SIX MONTHS AFTER (I found all the proof in his trash folder that he forget empty).

    So no, SummerGirl… or anyone being asked to triangulate… walk away. (And envision this: https://tenor.com/view/the-dark-knight-heath-ledger-joker-explode-explosion-gif-5089719)

    • Oh, they definitely get off on it. My cheater kept trying to arrange for me to meet the OW while in the affair and I was unaware of it. He’d invite me on a double date with “a coworker and her husband” , to social events they would be at (I never went) and to places she was going to be so she could covertly, maliciously observe me in the guise of “friendly” interest and curiosity. I believe they wanted us to become couple friends to make their betrayal even more deliciously abusive and were likely frustrated that I wasn’t interested. Risk gave them a high, as did the contempt they were covertly showing for their spouses, knowing they were humiliating us behind our backs. They also made sure that everyone where they worked knew of their affair in order to demonstrate their contempt for their spouses publically. Their final “fuck you” to me was to arrange to be together in front of a member of my family, which ended up in them getting caught. They had already been seen together by her children multiple times, by her deliberate design, usually at her home. Incredibly, she even insisted on bringing her 15 year old daughter on one of their dates. I consider this nothing short of emotional child abuse. The degree of hostility in these two disordered freaks is positively horrifying. Naturally, I told her husband of the abuse as well as the cheating. She is, of course, furious with my cheater for revealing these things to me and no doubt hates me with every fibre of her being for reporting to her husband. Back at ya, bitch. How d’ya like me now?

      In the case of your ex wanting you to meet the OW or a new GF, I would suspect it’s to shove it on your face how “happy” they are together and how superior she supposedly is. It’s a power trip. It also allows them to have fun speaking disparagingly of you together, since she has met you and can catalogue your alleged flaws along with him and make fun of you. It’s how they make themselves feel better. They want to further convince themselves you deserved what you got. They expect you to be either unfriendly or ingratiating, either of which they can then use against you to deem you a nasty bitch or a weakling.

  • …”it’s your character”…… ding ding ding! We have a winner.

    The very last time I spoke a word to POP, it went down like this:

    It was a few days after the first of the year–he’d contacted me on New Years Day and I had NOT been receptive. This call, he managed to trick me into answering the phone by using someone else’s phone. The call didn’t last long. It went like this:

    …..”You can forget that. You will never be in my presence again. You will never see, talk, or hear my voice again. I find the thought and YOU repulsive”.

    “Why? Do I stink?” (I know that sounds kind of weird but he knew that I loved the way he smelled—he was always impeccably groomed)–he thought he was being witty.

    “No, but your CHARACTER DOES”.

    Click. That was the last time he heard my voice or had a scintilla of my attention.

  • Oy, I wouldn’t touch that “special invite” of his with a 10’ pole. In fact, I can’t think of a single thing less pointless or more unappealing to waste my time on.

    IMO, the far bigger question is… why on earth would SummerGirl continue to meet monthly with someone she readily described as, “a serial cheater, liar, sex addict, abuser, manipulator”? Yes, why? Or as Nancy Kerrigan would sob post-baton, “Whhhhhhyyyyyyyyy???”

    Unless their life together was financially complicated in a Trumpesque sort of way, it’s hard to believe that after 12+ months, they’ve still not been able to unwind everything and “coordinate a monthly settlement payment and legal paperwork”?

    Nope, something smells quite fishy here. “Hey Big Guy, mail the support check to this address, and sign this stack of documents”! Boom, done!

    From my view in the cheap seats, SummerGirl and the ex WANT to spend time together. Oh, I understand why HE wants to (kibbles, and probably keeping his options open in case the OW bails), but for the life of me, I can’t understand why SHE wants to; by continuing to meet in person — when everything that’s still pending can either be communicated through attorneys or settled legally now, including “issues” surrounding their college-aged son — SummerGirl can’t fully detach, move on and heal. As always, Zero Contact is the healthiest solution, and I hope she comes to see that very soon.

  • He said that “she” want3ed to meet you. APs want to legitimize their position and act like the angel they think they are. They want their future in-laws, ex spouses, kids, to l.i.k.e. them. Because they are so wonderful! They won the pick-me dance, and this is the last shit sandwich to serve on the “evil” ex-wife. Also, the AP believes his story…even if she knows he’s been cake eating…she wants to think that once she puts a ring on his his finger, he’ll magically turn into her unicorn….(and not want to go to bed with you or get kibble bits from you) You have everything to lose, including your Meh, by meeting with her. I would “hold my peace” and “not speak now.” Because, you can’t talk with stupid and stupider about their stupid shit. Let the Karma freight train make its stop. Don’t stand on the tracks of the Karma train!

  • This one is so easy:
    He wants triangle!
    Any kind of triangle.

    And be prepared that he has set the scene already. He told you one thing, she told her something else.

    I wouldn’t want to waste 2 seconds of my life on someone who played OW, knowingly. She’s not worthy.

  • More proof of how f’d up these douchebags are. What nerve!

    I’d add ” Not my job”, I personally like standing back and watching calamity, karma and chaos

  • She wants a character reference for her affair partner?

    And he’s stupid enough to actually ask you???

    Stay away from both these people. They are delusional and insane. Literally, insane. No good whatsoever can come from any contact with them.

      • That’s literally the best case scenario.

        Bad case scenario, he wants to get off on seeing 2 women fight about him.

        Worst case scenario, he uses SummerGirl’s character reference against her later in some way, like sue her for slander.

        Abusers only think about their needs. There’s no good that can come from continued contact with this guy.

  • “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything.”

    Don’t talk to either of them. If you tell all, he’ll get mad at you & she’ll discount whatever you say, believing that he’s changed. If you fib… kibbles & bits for both of them. No contact is always the best option for you!

  • Disordered people always have a secret agenda, and that agenda is never intended to serve anyone beyond themselves. The best way to protect yourself from potential fallout is to not play.

  • Where ever he goes there he is. His wonderfulness will show up eventually. I’m guessing he found someone just like him. They will probably make beautiful music together until one of them cheats. You know how it is. True love.

  • Just say No, for your own sake!

    I told ow he left for a lot of the crap that made him who he was. (Told out of spite? Probably.) Then told his next 2 live in gfs in an honest attempt to save them the hell I went through. Backfired on me each time. Even the gf who believed me & didn’t think I was just a bitter xw (which I fully admit I also am), still stayed with him. She stayed even after he cheated on & physically abused her. Of course, he ended up discarding her in a few years. After each conflict with him, the gf’s would come running to me for advice and comfort because they knew I understood (I was the stupidest of them all staying with him for 16 years). Then they’d return to him until he discarded them.

    My point is, you can’t save the ow or gf. I had to learn that the hard way. All your effort to do so will do is invite drama, chaos, & more crap into your life. Plus, he’ll secretly live it because 2(+) women are making him central. Don’t willingly get involved. Step away & keep yourself out of that shit show as much as possible. Not your monkey & not your circus anymore – thank goodness!

  • I also agree with @LolaGranola that your contact with him seems unnecessary, especially in-person monthly. It sounds like your divorce is final, so why are you still meeting regarding financial matters? Those things should go through attorneys, a third party, or at the most email. (OFW would probably be the best & cheapest bet though.)

    If you weren’t meeting with him in person, the S kinda of things like him asking you to talk to his gf/ow wouldn’t even come up. If they did, it would be much easier for you to be objective & keep yourself out of his shit show. It sounds like you Grey Rocking it more would greatly be to your benefit.

  • Unfortunately the MOW was a friend (now former friend).

    She asked for the evidence I had when I was trying to tell her she wanted NO part of him, you know….woman to woman? I thought, surely she will listen to reason? What reason would I have had to lie to her about his abuses, lying, cheating, BEFORE I knew they were “slapping uglies”.

    (NO I’m not so stupid to give her my evidence, OR my source!) BUT, BUT, I DID sent her a text message outlining why she really truly didn’t want to get involved with him, ruin her marriage and family along with mine.

    And months later? It shows up, from my NPDSTBX’s lawyer, as evidence against me, in my horribly contentious, ugly divorce. Evidence of slander no less. It didn’t stick, won’t stick, because it’s TRUE, every word of that impassioned text message to my “friend”, his next “victim”.

    Just stay away, don’t interact. Every action has an equal reaction.
    They are sick and evil and only put out sick and evil into this world.

    • I know this is an old song but the first time I heard it (didn’t listen to country music until met ex) was about 23 years ago when a performer sang it at a concert we attended a few months after we met. I laughed & thought it was a snappy song. After the comcert, I told ex how much I enjoyed that song. He looked annoyed and said he didn’t see why as it was so negative & just a bitter woman spouting off. Hm, if only I had known that was a red flag then. Instead, his dispise of the song just confused me at the time. Sigh.

  • LOL, yea right. I bet he gets off just thinking about all this–two women talking it out over me me ME!!! What you all say is irrelevant, it’s just one more rickety old pedestal he gets to stand on. I dunno bout you all, but I’m done constructing pedestals for my ex. He clearly does not possess the tools to make his own, so let the new women in his life build them…on their dime.

    Meanwhile, as has been sad here, I bet you have a million better things to do with your time. Like Netflix and chill.

  • The only song this reminds me of is They Might Be Giants, ‘Particle Man’.

    “Triangle man, Triangle man
    Triangle man hates Particle man
    They have a fight, Triangle wins
    Triangle man …

    Triangle man, Triangle man,
    Triangle man hates Person man
    They have a fight, Triangle wins
    Triangle man.”

  • don’t do it – you have no idea what’s lead up to this request.

    also, doing shit like this, because he asks you to, is beneath you now. don’t let this cockhead manipulate you.

    just say no.

  • “I have this weakness of trying to speak truth to stupid. At the end of the day, I’m still a big chump, and think I possess superpowers that compel people to do The Right Thing.”

    ^^^ THIS!

    I’m stuck in this rut of trying to explain my reasons why she has hurt me so bad and what her affairs did to me. This is in response to her accusing me of being “mean” (i.e. cold, emotionless) to her. Why do we do this???

  • It sounds like the new girlfriend doesn’t trust me. This is shocking. I have no idea why he might come off untrustworthy. (This is all sarcasm, I’m not that dense I promise)

  • >