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UBT: ‘If You Need Me, I’ll Be There’

Hi Chump Lady,

I got on the hopium and had a terrible fake reconciliation. After the most recent D-Day (two weeks ago tomorrow) — found out my sex addict STBX had visited the same hotel two days in a row, while I was working — I kicked him out and filed for divorce. I have gone complete no contact.

I’m still struggling with feeling rejected because he essentially chose cheating over me. Here’s the email he sent me a few days after I kicked him out. Would you run it through the Universal Bullshit Translator? Thank you!!


Dear Skeeter,

Sure. The UBT has been wanting to cook some sad sausages on the grill since Labor Day.

On it.

I am making assumptions about what you have been doing and what the future looks like. I received confirmation that you (I assume it was you) submitted a change of address for me.

I am confused. Is this confirmation of a consequence?

I also assume that means you don’t want to see me at all — whether that’s permanent or temporary (needing space), I don’t know. Either way, I accept that you believe I’m an unhealthy presence in yours and your son’s lives, even in brief exchanges (like mail). I am responsible for those feelings and I want you to know I’m sitting with them and mentally doing all I can to have them impact me in a positive way.

I deduce from this postal forwarding that you don’t want to see me. But I don’t know. Perhaps you are only rejecting my mail and not me.

Now I’m scrunching up my face and trying very hard to pen Human Remorse-ish.

You believe I’m an unhealthy presence.

I shall labor under your cruel intangible prejudices about me… based on evidence that I was fucking strange in a hotel while you worked.

Yes, I am responsible for those feelings. (Feelings I don’t name. What are feelings? Do they taste like bubblegum? What else can people say about feelings? Oh, you sit with them! They impact you! They’re mental!)

I’m doing all I can to have your horror impact me in a positive way!

Whirrrrp! Me! Whirrrrp!

I will not come by the house or try to call, text or email you again until at least October 1, unless it is a dire emergency. When I do try to reach out to you again, it will be by email.

A dire emergency such as I need my moldy sweatshirt, or a cup of sugar, or my dick is hard.

You will receive an email.

I am incredibly sad about how this happened, about my own behavior, about losing your trust, about the emotional and mental toll you have endured since we have been together, about losing you and the kids and the dog.

I’m incredibly sad about my change of address.

Just having some time since Saturday to reflect has gotten me out of self-pity mode and more aware of the trauma and harm I have caused you.

Which is why I went to the hotel twice — to reflect on your trauma.

And although you have said multiple times that apologies are not what you want, I don’t think that closure can be fully achieved for either of us or that change is possible on my end without saying that I am sorry. I’m so sorry that I cheated on you, that I lied to you, that I gaslit you, that I scared you, that I belittled you, that I dishonored our marriage and our vows.

I just cribbed this from the 1,327 emails you sent me during our last reconciliation. See I was paying attention!

Please accept my apology as expressed via fucking strange in a hotel after you took me back. #closure

I did all of this more times than I can count. If you had done these things to me even once, I’m certain I would have responded the same way you have. I’m certain I would have been traumatized and would have struggled, at best, to believe anything you told me. I would have felt devalued. I would have suffered through mood swings, including depression and anxiety. I would have found it difficult, at best, to express affection for you because I, too, would have struggled to be vulnerable with you.

I really did take copious notes… to mindfuck you with. A whole new vocabulary! Devalued! Vulnerable! Traumatized!

I have no feelings (just a throbbing dick) but I’m certain if I had them (I don’t) I would be Just Like You! Sad and so, so very useful. I would not be this mean bitch forwarding my mail.

I have said many, many times in the past that I will not commit these acts again or to make you feel these terrible emotions. But I have failed. And I’m sorry. I’m going to return to doing the work required to be a better person.

It’s off to the hotel again to reflect on your trauma.

To not lie. To not rely on the instant gratification of an orgasm to make myself feel better when I’m scared or wishing a problem would go away.

I wank because I’m scared! Turn a light on, you say. Read a funny book. Look at puppy memes. No! I need ejaculate! Only spraying jizz about with pay-by-the-hour women will make me feel better about myself!

It’s possible that being alone will help me do that,

It’s possible that being alone I will not be able to afford hotels. Or a place to forward my mail.

will help me figure out why I hurt you so badly and did not control my behavior when I needed to. I really hope I’m able to be the person we have both wanted me to be.

Boy, it’s a real mystery why I hurt you and didn’t control my behavior. I sure hope we can figure it out!

It will not be because of genuine commitment to that effort.

Fuck. I accidentally said something truthful. Had my manipulation been on point, I would’ve written “It will not be for lack of genuine commitment to that effort.” Instead I baldly stated the truth. I have no genuine effort at being better.

My heart hurts.

Remorse-ish is exhausting!

I feel really empty and rudderless. I know things will get better — for you and for me. I do not, however, envision a day when I won’t love you or desire you or want more than anything to grow old with you and to be your husband and Toto’s stepdad. I love you, more than I’ve ever loved another person or thing.

I just express my love through fucking other people in hotel rooms while you work. I can’t envision a day when I’d have to adult. I want more than anything to grow old with you and let you do all the adulting.

That love is not my motivation for change; I’m motivated by the harm and trauma I have yet caused the person I’ve loved more than anything and by never wanting to do that to anyone ever again. If I get another chance to be the person in your life that you deserve, I will be eternally grateful. If I don’t, I’ll have to accept the enormous loss and remember it always.

I’m so motivated by the harm and trauma I caused you, after you took me back, I went and fucked around again. And again. I’m THAT motivated to be the person you deserve.

I think you deserve shit. I am that shit.

If you ever need me, I will be there.

Like a stubborn toilet bowl stain. Or a boil on your ass that never heals. Or gum stuck under a desk. I will be there. Disgusting, useless, but there. Always.


Skeeter, keep the mail forwarded.

No tag backs.

Ask Chump Lady

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  • “To not rely on the instant gratification of an orgasm to make myself feel better when I’m scared . . . ”

    OK, now I have visions of his coping mechanisms while sitting in a theater watching “Hostel” or “A Quiet Place 2.”

    Or how he’d have to be escorted out of Disney World after riding the Tower Of Terror.

    Or how he’d have been so handy to have around as the Titanic went down.

    • Visions of his toddler behavior and mindset kept running through my head as I read this. So instead of sucking his thumb he gets his dick . . .

    • “It will not be because of genuine commitment to that effort.”

      Fuck. I accidentally said something truthful.

      Oh boy, what a tell. ????????????

    • The song “I’ll Be Around” by The Spinners keeps going though my head after reading this loser’s letter. Maybe you can do your magic with this one, UX!

        • I think the reason the Spinner’s song got stuck in my head is because today’s posting title is the same as line of lyics from I’ll Be Around: ” . . . if you need me, I’ll be there . . . ” not sure everyone here knows it, though, it’s Motown from the 70s.

            • The new one by The Chicks Sleep at Night is great…
              “How do you sleep at night, living a double life” or “my husband’s girlfriend’s husband called last night”

            • Me too. I would get off the bus with my friend in high school (mid 70s) who was way into it and we’d dance and sing to all her Motown records in the basement at her house. Good memories.

      • I love that song, but so far my go-to song has been Gloria Gaynor’s “I Will Survive”. Both before my time, but so classic. Fuckwittery is as old as the hills.

    • SKEETER! Trade out “sex addiction” for SOCIOPATHY! Don’t get hornswaggled by the RIC. He is NOT the victim here.

    • Because when I am MOST SCARED, my first instinct is not to be vigilant and aware of my surroundings, it’s to GET COMPLETELY NAKED EXPOSING MY SOFT UNDERBELLY AND FLOPPY BITS AND MOAN.

      • What, Luziana, are you saying that that isn’t everyone’s instinct?!! I don’t believe you, Luziana. No, NO! La la la la la la la! I don’t want to hear it! You can’t make me! It can’t be twuuuu!!!

        What a POS. You’ve captured his physical, mental and moral stupidity, Luziana, and in the process, you’ve made me think of how the narrator of a nature documentary might relate this. Imagine it:

        “Here we see the horny male fuckwit responding to external stimuli, designed to engender a feeling of fear. Yes, you can see his frightened looks. Now watch him, as he dials the number for the woman who copulates with males of the species for money. They are known as “hookers” in wildlife professional circles. We will cover that in a related program soon. What is important to know right now is that this is the time-honored way that the horny adult male fuckwit handles things when he’s frightened and overwhelmed by “life” and “social/moral obligations” to his steadfast partner.

        Now, watch closely. Thru time-elapsed photography, we see how the horny male fuckwit makes his way to the general copulating area, know in technical terms as a “hotel.” You see him locate the specific location in the “hotel” to find the agreed upon specific copulation area, known as a “room.” He looks left, he looks right (this is to make sure he feels he is not being spied upon by the more moral members of his species), and he goes inside the door. And there is the “hooker!”

        Here comes the exciting part for our horny male fuckwit: he asks his “hooker” to undress, and he does as well! Yes, viewers, you will now see the hairy soft underbelly and floppy reproductive bits of the horny male fuckwit of the Homo Sapien species! This is something rarely seen in the wild, and we’ve allowed you to see it in the comfort of your own home! We now cut to our sponsor, Mutual of Indignity. Please stay w/us when we return to Marty Stuff-her’s “Wild Fuckwits of America and the World!”

        Fade to commercial…

    • Has anyone else noticed the UBT taking a turn to the meta-level? We sometimes skip the literal translation and go right to the underlying meaning:

      FW: “Just having some time since Saturday to reflect has gotten me out of self-pity mode and more aware of the trauma and harm I have caused you.”

      UBT: “Which is why I went to the hotel twice — to reflect on your trauma.”

      The UBT should get a nice slice of key lime pie for this work.

    • “now I have visions of his coping mechanisms while sitting in a theater watching “Hostel” or “A Quiet Place 2.”

      Wanking to” It” – “we all float down here” ????????????

    • UX world,

      You are on a hilarious roll with visions of his “coping skills” for dealing with fear.

      I wouldn’t want to go to the dentist with him…

  • His life is probably uncomfortable now.
    He’s trying to weedle you in.
    going to give you till 1 October that’s kind of him
    Daughter who had kidney removed home from hospital, surgery worse than expected, doc said she’s doing better than expected.
    Thanks for the kind words.

    • Very scary procedure and glad to hear she’s doing alright considering. Sending healing thoughts. Please keep updating. xoxo

    • Huggs! You are the SANE parent. The other one is just faking it for the pat on the head. Kidney issues are no light matter. I have been on dialysis since 2008 and have had 1 transplant. And yes I have been badly cheated on by someone I completely built my life with and invested heavily in. Its that old pesky co-worker that keeps coming around to protect those scared feelings! She can have his floppy bits!

      And you my dear mom, hug your daughter for me. As a kidney patient, your welcome to reach out to me any time. You focus on your daughter and both of your health (‘s?). I didn’t write that correctly. Fuckwitts will never ever understand the need to care for someone so sick and who needs them. But they are great actors! Im praying for your daughters speedy recovery! Huggs!

  • I don’t know what’s more traumatising, being cheated on multiple times (with the ladies of the night) or reading this BS.

    If he indeed needs instant gratification of an orgasm (for whatever reason) he should just use his hand Just a thought.

    • Instant orgasm could of happened in seconds all by himself. BUT he is what they call a sex addict (I call them somatic narcissists) and are a completely different from an average healthy mature man.

      More than the orgasm that they could easily get by themselves, the bigger attachment/thrill is the dopamine rush of :

      1. They get a rush out of having a secret 2. They get a rush out of doing something bad or illegal
      3. They get a rush out of having power to punish you behind your back
      4. They get a rush out of control. Control over the magic wand of the computer mouse to pick which porn gal will be his today. It makes him feel god-like, or a paid person who has to perform his whims. He is the great Oz. He decides who he downloads or who he hires. It makes him feel he is lord of the universe or special.
      5. He gets a rush out of the chase. Pursuing various videos or types of certain porn or pursuing prostitutes. It’s a fun chase for them. They are predators.
      6. He gets a thrill of percieved ownership. Like a boy collecting baseball cards, he accumulates collections (black book, his cache of porn).
      7. He gets a rush out of demeaning because of his deep seated distain and hatred for women typically his mother. He reduces women to objects no different than utensils forks or spoons. This makes him feel good. Makes him feel above others.
      7. If you find out about his double life, he gets a rush out of his manipulation of you and influence over your emotions. He can be bad and you have taken him back but he would not do the same. This makes him feel even more special.

      Your husband is a disordered person. He is mentally ill and an abuser.

      • Beenthere, you describe my ex almost perfectly, would add he was also a pathological liar. Wonder how many men fit this category. Double life hits the mark, he had a whole other life for 15 (he adits to but I would be sure there was much more to the story), Hard to think a person could actually live this kind of life, so twisted and demented. The path of destruction is palpable.

        • @Auntbea619

          Yep they’re out there alright.

          Mine too was a chronic liar. These are fractured empty people swimming in the soup of imaginary and delusional power & control. They know nothing about life.

      • Spot on this. It’s all about a false and distorted sense of power and imaginary control.

        Maybe I’m short on reading comprehension today, but nowhere did I see in his drivel remorse or even remorse-ish. Just a blatant, brazen admission that he knew all along what he is doing to Skeeter, that he was doing it intentionally, and that he actually gets off on tormenting her. It’s what motivates him – stated in his own words in black and white. If that doesn’t leave you cold, I don’t know what would.

        Run that by a good psychiatrist who actually specializes in sociopaths specifically and give it to your divorce lawyers. Court gold indeed if you happen to need leverage.

        • @Foolishchump

          “distorted sense of power and imaginary control”


          The core issue is more about that than ejaculation. You couldn’t of put it more perfectly

      • Beenthere – you described my ex to a tee! I found out about his secret life after 16 years. He kept files on women. Had an online person, chats where he manipulated young women. I was gobsmacked! He was way too into fantasy too. I came to dread any intimacy, and then of course that was blamed on me. Anyways, would love to know how you came up with these characteristics. Is this just what a common cheater is? I

        • @NewlyMintedChump

          The garden variety common cheater is one who has one person they fall for and an affair ensues.

          This other type of cheater is a disordered individual since youth, who has many random meaningless perhaps hundreds of sexual encounters via porn, or sex workers. Some also include fixating and becoming aroused while at shopping stores, work, church, and even while watching a movie with family (even a G rated one)

          They use manipulation, deceit, gas lighting, blame shifting etc to keep the appearance of an acceptable life with their family. They wear a false good man mask and are constantly reworking, and patching it.

  • The vibe of his ‘apology’ letter sounds scarily similar to the ones I used to get after X was busted. I recently was gathering photos for my daughter’s wedding and came across a little stack of these jibberish attempts by him to get back to the status quo. I remember, at the time, kind of believing his remorse. When I read them recently, It was chrystal clear how meaningless they were. My second DDay was December 29, 2017. Divorce was final November, 2018. It’s taken a bit longer than I thought it would, but as they say, be kind to yourself. Good news-saw him at my daughter’s wedding two weeks ago. Felt relieved he’s not my problem. I think I’m getting very close to meh! Yee Haw!

  • So I’m in Costco last night on a hotdog mission for the fam. Which now means me and my daughter.

    Minding my own business.

    A cheery voice from behind me says, “Hey! Velvet Hammer! What a surprise!”

    Yep. It’s him. The traitor himself. Talking to me like I’m not his former wife be stabbed in the back but one of his good buddies.

    Thank goodness for pandemic masks. They hide a multitude of poker face lapses.

    I said, “Yeah. What a surprise. You know, I’m just going to go that way.”

    I turned my cart around and walked away.

    What the ever loving F?

    My back was turned to him and I would never have known he was there had he left me alone.
    I want to be left alone as much as possible. We are not friends nor will we ever be.

    I will never understand, which is a good thing because that means I don’t think like him. The UBT eats this space junk so we don’t have to. Thank you, UBT!

    • Almost worse, is your exMIL (and other ex-inlaws) attempting to approach you at your son’s extravagant wedding, as if nothing had happened. They ALL sided with him and I never received as much as a phone call (after 35 years) to see if I’m ok. My exMIL even traveled to Italy with the paramour and my ex while we were still married. No way could I be cordial…. just glad that I was able to show a modicum of restraint!

      • NotMyFault… me too ???????????????????????????????? 26 years as a loyal devoted daughter in law and mother to their grandkids. They told my mom, who calmed them to rip them a new one, that XH “just deserved to be happy.” They also never spoke to our kids again either.

        FF 6 years…. XH is sick with morbid obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction, at trouble at work, fights 24/7 with AP that he’s been serially cheating on…. miserable as fuck. AP is also a cheating woman-child who loathes adulting.

        Me, I’m living my best life. Happy and purposeful and kids call and visit daily, loving partner, healthier than ever.

        It really was XH, not me who was his problem.

        • I’m glad you realized that, i.e., that he was the one with the problem. I believe it too, though the dick-ex is ‘seemingly’ still happily married to his skank. But he isn’t my problem anymore. That’s what I keep telling myself.

    • I can see this happening – I’ve been chastised left and right for not being his best friend and his feelings are so hurt that I won’t be – four years now of cheating after six kids and 27 years of marriage and cheating during my chemo etc- and HIS feelings are hurt. Poor guy. I guess I don’t get over things fast – see how I am? So awful like that? I hold grudges? I “rush” into a divorce before he has time to decide who he really wants? I hire an attorney instead of letting him decide how much parenting time and money to give me- because I should trust him with that?
      They are delusional.

      • It hurts when you’ve listened to the same stories that MIL has told for years, never interrupting, to include taking her to church on Sundays when the dick is off playing golf, only to be discarded by her too. However, I did it because it was the right thing to do. I seriously doubt the skank is doing the same for her MIL like I did. But oh well. I’m at peace.

        • I took the MIL to the hospital when she had medical emergencies, while he played video games or tennis or took a nap. He lives in her basement now and she has to rely on him to be her caretaker. Bwhahahahahahaa!

    • Good grief Vel. I remember those times. The gall these folks have is amazing.

      I remember my fuckwit dropping by while I was in the flower garden, offering to take me to see his new apartment. You know like I was his fucking mother and he wanted to show off his bachelor pad. Sadistic bastard.

    • I’m always perplexed at exes who cheat but think you’ll still be friends. Eff that. I’m not friends with any ex and I certainly wouldn’t be friends with someone that betrayed me in the worst ways.

      I think they want to be “friends” so it can alleviate the guilt or the appearance of consequences for their actions.

      • I got the standard XW wanting to be friends, plus she also thought I’d be friends with her AP (now husband). I swear that she has been lying about the affair for so long that she has deluded herself into thinking it didn’t even happen.

        The funny thing is, I wouldn’t be friends with the guy anyway just because of the shitty way he treated *his* wife during their divorce, even if I didn’t know he divorced her because he was having an affair with *my* wife.

        • Involuntary–This statement tossed me back on my heels: “The funny thing is, I wouldn’t be friends with the guy anyway just because of the shitty way he treated *his* wife during their divorce, even if I didn’t know he divorced her because he was having an affair with *my* wife.”

          That right there makes you a good guy in my book. Having been married to a narcissistic arse for so many years, I forget that some men are actually kind and empathic.

        • Involuntary Georgian–

          The layers of unacceptable things that come to light in these messes, each of them stand-alone reasons to think fuckwits and poachers are really, really awful.

        • What is with women especially thinking a betrayed ex would want to be friends with them? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this with cheating women.

        • Divorced my XH because of his affair and AP divorces her XH to marry my X.
          FF 6 months… they broke up and her XH took her back…My XH is living at his grandma’s house, unemployed and no wife and no AP.

          Sometimes the Universe spills out some justice..

          Still searching for Tuesday.

          • That is likely just the beginning of justice for your FW. Imagine who he will attract now at grandmas house and no job.

      • Totally. My ex was actually completely stunned that I wasn’t happy for him that he found a new relationship while still married to me. I’m not kidding. He said, “I thought you’d be happy for me.” He looked like a little child who had just dragged home a snake and said, “can I keep it mommy?” And then when the mommy is horrified and says, “no”, the child gets sad and doesn’t understand why he can’t keep the snake as a pet. When he realized I wasn’t happy for him, and I wasn’t going to be friends with his whore, he turned mean and abusive. I will never understand.

        • FormerlyKnown– I might say that it’s because these guys always assumed a chumped partner is like a needless mommy figure who only exists to serve and only wants the best for her widdle booboo. Except it appears she-cheaters sometimes have the same I-thought-you’d-be-happy-for-me attitude.

          • Maybe the she-cheaters see the betrayed husband as a daddy figure? There to pay the bills and treat her as his little princess without ever expecting anything in return.

            • I had a similar thought as well. We’ve been struggling for kids for so long, maybe he found a daughter figure in his new playmate. Cried like a baby when I asked him to choose. Me or his pet. Weirdly, there’s a well known author who used to ‘collect’ little girls as pets. It’s a thing…sigh.

          • Spot on. I sometimes blame myself for this, but he always acted pathetic and like he couldn’t get his shit together. I was just looking out for him, the way I thought a wife should.

        • You know what? My STBXH had indeed wanted to keep a red back spider he finds in the garage as a pet. He didn’t tell me for days. I’m finding it hilarious now, but I was shocked. Also recall him saying, you can’t tell you wife everything. How can I tell you that I love someone else for example, he said. And then the stupid helpless grin that crept up on his face. The flashbacks…

          • That’s so creepy Yas. When I was feeling spectacularly gaslit before DDay, I was crying and begging my husband for some information. I said, “I feel like you’re cheating on me. Are you? I feel like I need to hire a private investigator, I just don’t know what’s happening.” And he got this creepy look on his face and he said, “what do you think you’ll find?” And he laughed and walked out of the room. I should have left him then. I didn’t know I was living with a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The wolf slowly came out and it was so chilling.

            • Yeah, the mask falls off for a moment. It’s the power they hold on chumps. That laugh is the high they derive from our anguish. It’s peaceful day the moment, outside the triangle. Don’t care what he does now.

      • My ex used the excuse that even his coworker was more fun than me, every word out of my mouth was annoying, etc. He’d find reasons to leave the house just to avoid having to be around me. And apparently he’d been thinking of killing himself a lot instead of being married to me or listening to my boundaries. Especially, when my boundaries came up. But, then when I didn’t want to be friends, he suggested that he might as well kill himself. Why? If being around me makes him want to kill himself, why would he want to kill himself over NOT getting to be around me? This makes no logical sense.

        • Right, my fuckwits parting words to me were “I never loved you, and I was never faithful” (20 year marriage).

          When he wanted to come back, I said but you said “blah blah blah” He said, oh I only said that to make you hate me. Unfortunately, I did let him come back, but I kicked him out after a week. He was just using me, yet again.

          He tried three times after that. I always said no.

    • Velvet Hammer,

      My first thought was, “Wait. He follows you on CL and knows you go by Velvet??!!!” I was momentarily terrified for you. ????????‍♀️

      Anyway, you handled that encounter brilliantly. I moved almost 100 miles away from my ex, so I doubt I will have the non-pleasure of a random encounter. But if I do, I’ll try to handle it as you did, using some version of “I’m going that way.” It works both literally and figuratively.

      • I think you figured out I used my CL handle to tell the tale here?

        I am really surprised at my reaction because it was so instant and I have not even rehearsed a scenario like this. I am also surprised he said anything to me as my back was turned and he could have easily avoided me undetected (which is what I would have done).

        Anyways, it looks like he is having an exciting and fun filled new life, shopping alone at Costco on a Tuesday night and I was glad to be going home to my intact relationship with my daughter where we laughed our heads off at the new Mickey Mouse cartoon series.

        The Lizard Look is also a good response….Google it…..????

        • Too funny! Yeah, I realized you used your CL handle to tell the tale. It just took a few seconds for it to dawn on me (and terror for you filled that time gap).

          Glad you got a good laugh out of the situation.

          I can only hope my ex is also wandering the aisles at Costco on a Tuesday night.

    • This is my nightmare, the random running into each other. I picture the old jack-in-the-box feeling, where the music is playing the standard ‘pop goes the weasel’ then “BAM” there it is in your face and you’re startled af. I doubt it’ll happen because Fredo isn’t local anymore but I’m impressed by your reaction to it. I can’t guarantee that if this happened to me I wouldn’t pop his weasel.

      • Thursdayschild, trust me, it is super scary. My daughter was certain that STBXH preferred a different location to shop. Regardless, walked into the grocery store after scanning the lot. (His vehicles are very recognizable- compensate much?) Only needed one thing so I didn’t have a cart and was walking fast. Came around the corner and he was walking away from me. Came to a dead stop, blinked, turned around, and left. Haven’t been back to that location since!

        • I live relatively far from my ex, but I do travel to my old hood frequently to visit friends and worry about an encounter. ????

          You know you have supportive friends and family when they, too, are terrified of bumping into your ex.

          My sister’s latest plan is to say nothing but raise two middle fingers. Earlier plans included some form of physical attack. Glad she abandoned that. She’s all of 5’2″. Gotta appreciate the sentiment though.

    • Something like that happened to me with my ex. I was on the train and he happened to get on in the same car and he saw me. He smiled and said “Hi!” like it was nothing.

      Um, no, how about you go fuck yourself, we’re not friends.

      To me, it’s not the gall they have to act like everything is ok that astounds me, I actually find it fairly chilling when they do that. Approach you like everything is sunshine and rainbows and they greet you with a smile, as if they didn’t betray you, destroy your family, and expose you to STDs. It’s like an old bully from school who used to pick on you every day forgetting who you are years later.

      It shows their cruelty was truly inconsequential to them.

      • It’s weird, but even years after we divorced when we would meet at a graduation or such; my ex wouldn’t look me in the face. He would glance, then busy himself doing something else.

        Maybe that is actually a sign of some humanity?

        Schmoopie had no issue talking to me though.

        Next May my granddaughter is graduating will be interesting. Have not seen them since 2016.

  • It seems that most cheaters write flowery prose. It must be part of them being a legend in their own mind. They enjoy the ‘power’ they get from being the cause of major trauma to another human being.

    Ignoring them and yawning is the best approach.

    My only potential reply would be: ‘don’t worry, we’ve moved on and you are in the past, lets keep it that way’.

    • I like your potential reply. Hopefully I will never have to use it, but if there is an unexpected encounter with the dick, I’ll try my best to remember “Don’t worry. I have moved on and you are in the past. Let’s keep it that way.”

      • The only reply I would give to this guy in Skeeter’s post is “I neither need, nor want you.”

        Or just flat silence. One of my favorite quotes of all time is “The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.” Hating someone is still an emotional reaction. It means they still affect you. Being completely indifferent to them and anything they do, then you really do not love them anymore. They are nothing and nobody. Best way to make someone feel like they aren’t human is to treat them like they literally do not exist.

        Oh and boy oh boy to narcissists HATE that.

    • Haha, right?! What an idiot- he’s given you an admission in writing. Perfect for court and future days when he tries to gaslight you and say it never happened.

    • Nope. Mine were. I regularly got 12 page typed letters that essentially said the same thing only more verbal vomit about how he was living in a twilight zone or an alternate universe and I NEEDED to understand and allow him to have multiple “relationships” but in OUR universe he still wanted ME, his one and only wife, his forever Valentine, blah blah blah, how much he loves me…I gave the letters to my therapist in the beginning because they re-traumatized me and she read them to see if it was anything needed by my attorney. No contact was my salvation.

      • I got, “You will always be the love of my life.”

        He wrote this after admitting to a multi-year affair and saying he thinks he’ll be happier with her.

        CL is right. Some of these cheaters can summon the words they think you want to hear and/or ape back stuff they’ve heard you say. It’s such BS

  • “… love is not my motivation for change; I’m motivated by the harm and trauma I have yet caused the person I’ve loved more than anything…” That pretty much sums it up. Love isn’t a motivation, the REAL motivation is the way he can manipulate people and their emotions. It’s not a lack of adulting that’s the big problem here – it’s the lack of human-ing!

    Best of luck with your new life, it will be so much better without this person in it.

  • Trauma? He seems to be the one traumatized because of his change of address. Spoiler alert: your soon to be ex-wife isn’t traumatized, she’s mad as hell.

  • Trying again. Stupid router.

    “The UBT has been wanting to cook some sad sausages on the grill since Labor Day.”

    Hahahahahahaha – genius!

    Skeeter – he is an idiot and he put his abuse IN WRITING. Pass it on to your attorney.

  • I find it charming he follows the federal fiscal year in his approach to his relationships. ‘I’ll give you til Oct 1st’.

    What a weirdo – who assigns dates to honorable behavior?

    • Skeeter, I was laughing about the October 1st comment as well. I bet you 100 bucks that he can’t leave you alone for even a week, let alone to the end of the month! Or he is going to invent a DIRE emergency to break contact. These people have zero self control, let alone the memory capacity to remember that he was going to give you space. Notice, he said that he would TRY to not reach out to you!

        • Oh my god I want to know what he said. More word salad? More sad sausage? Did he flip to the rage channel?

          Tell us so we can mercilessly ridicule him in Jane Austen language.

    • My guess is, he has to pay upfront rent+ deposit by Oct 1, so it would be real convenient to have free accomodation lined up by then.

  • Just so you know, he will keep circling around. Your job is to remain NO CONTACT until he finally gets the message. I think these creeps truly don’t understand how anybody could not want them (and their meaningless apologies).

    • Agreed! I also want to pause and reflect on how great/brave it is that you shared his letter and there’s a whole community of chumps rallying behind you to cheer you forward (and tear him apart). Imagine how much he’d hate it if he knew ????.

  • As things were unraveling at the end, ex said to me “I wish we could just go back to how things were, when you trusted me.” This was before the exit affair, and the bath house receipts. Before I had reason NOT to trust him, other than my own screaming gut.

    He just wanted to spout crap like the loser getting grilled today, and have me believe it. Probably the most chilling moment of my marriage which included waking up to his hands around my throat.

    • “As things were unraveling at the end, ex said to me “I wish we could just go back to how things were, when you trusted me”

      UBT: I wish you could be my unsuspecting chump again, I really miss cake”.

  • What struck me is the last line, “if you ever need me, I will be THERE”. Not here? There? Methinks his Freudian slip is showing.

  • If you ever need me, I will be there.

    To give you a trauma
    To give you a STD.
    To give you a stab in the back
    To trample your boundaries.
    To ly to you.
    To harm you
    To cheat on you

    • To blame shift.
      To gaslight.
      To make off with marital assets.
      To write more stupid emails like this.
      To hoover back around looking for kibble.
      To put my selfish needs ahead of you and the kids.
      To pitch fits over consequences.

  • I love song lyrics, because the song writer(s) capture emotions in a concise way, and the tune can play in your head, so it somehow softens the blow from the past you feel when you run into people you really never want to see again. This guy reminds me of a song by Gotye, Just Somebody that I Used to Know.

    When I have to see or deal with my Ex about my sons, that song runs in my head and helps me get through the event. Fortunately, the other Ex died, and when I found out I was relieved that I never would have to hear from him again, or listen to the same type of BS that this guy is spouting. I much rather listen to Gotye.

    Find a coping mechanism that works for you — a mantra or a song, or whatever gets you through the ordeal. Any contact with an Ex is like having to endure a painful medical procedure in order to fight off a horrible disease. Be a survivor. Eventually, you will get over the pain.

    • Portia–

      “Fortunately, the other ex died…” One line to sum up why cheaters are so vicious in the DARVO stage– because they know that, ultimately, this is how chumps will end up feeling about cheaters once the mask is off.

      That song is interesting. The first singer frames himself as a victim. The second singer tells the other side of the story.

    • I chanted to remind myself of who he really was, to the point it became my only way of seeing him. Over and over: “User, Loser, Liar, Cheat.” Said outloud when I was alone, in my head the rest of the time. Like your song lyrics, it worked.

    • Yes! Some song lyrics strike a cord. I heard one this morning “you treated me like an open vein” and I thought damn! He did that.

  • I am one of those bitter exspouses too.
    She told me she wanted to use same attorney and negotiate our divorce and we could still be friends.
    She left out the part about cheating with multiple coworkers and attempting to cheat me out of the house.
    They are delusional.
    But I am the bitter one because I hired my own attorney, maintained my self respect by going greylock and no contact post divorce.
    But years later at our sons wedding she wanted us to be chummy.
    Oh look- SPARKLE! SPARKLE!
    I grey rocked her through the wedding preparations, ceremony and reception and then right back to NC.

    • Bruno–

      Just curious. How did the wedding go? I can’t imagine being at the same event with my ex. (It’s been 10+ months since D-Day for me, if that makes a difference. And our kids are adults, so I have been able to go NC.)

      I know I’ll face situations like this in the future and am curious/terrified.

    • Me too. I’d like to know the best way to handle ‘seeing’ the ex. I’ve so far been able to avoid it, but we both have been invited to a wedding (a friend of my son) and I really don’t know how I’ll handle seeing the dick. I would not do anything to hurt the wedding, but honestly, I have no idea how I’ll react.

      • Tip from my therapist.
        If he corners you or start talking to you. Just say you have to use the restroom and walk away. Worse case you have to go to restroom to get away from him. He won’t be able to follow you in there.

  • save this and any others he writes, for your divorce lawyer. if this goes to court, you have some real gems here. what a dumbass dick…. not worthy of your time or your emotions. move on & continue with no contact – you are doing it right!

  • Wow. Reading that sad sausage attempted manipulation of a letter sent me back into my saved emails to remind myself of how my ex used to send similar equivocations meant to advance his interests to me.

    I am relieved to say that reading through them was an eye-opening experience of how educated my eyes, heart, and mind have become. They also, however, showed me just how much I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and to question myself.

    Skeeter, your stbx is trying hard to manipulate you into offering him an olive branch. He has yet to accept that you are serious, but he knows that the situation has shifted, and he is attempting to use old appeals in slightly different ways. What he hasn’t understood yet is that his playbook is useless against the collective knowledge, wisdom, and will of UBT, Chump Lady, Chump Nation, and you yourself.

    Stay strong. See through this self-serving drivel. Don’t let his hoovering move you, and, when he realizes his Jedi mind tricks aren’t working on you anymore, don’t let the rage that will take the place of his sad sausage-ness alarm you.

    You’ve got this.

  • TL;DR version: “It’s hard for me to believe you actually mean it this time. I mean, all the other times you bought my bullshit and took me back, so I figure it’s worth the effort to see if I can fool you one more time.”

  • Chump Lady, your response made me laugh out loud. No, he didn’t last until October 1. I’m sure you’re all surprised. He left a sobby voice mail and sent a few more emails. The scales are finally coming off my eyes because it all sounds so fake and creepy now.

    I really do think he was cribbing from somewhere – he’s never so articulately faked remorse before. I’m not sure what’s up with the deadlines. Reminds me of when people say they’re starting a diet on quitting smoking and set a date off into the future to try to gear up to give up their vice – usually it doesn’t happen – just like with him.

    • The date he “gave” you seems like a nice little control mechanism. He’s living in a deluded fantasy world where he thinks you’re going to give a shit. I’m sorry this happened to you. Again. It’s pretty obvious from his email that he’ll be doing it again and again.

  • I could swear my ex wrote the email to Skeeter. It’s the same voice and language.

    Reading it prompted me to look at some old emails. CN, can you UBT this nugget from him? For context, he wrote this to me only a month after confessing to a multi-year affair. I was crushed. (still am). I *never* said that I was happy to move and gave *no* indication that I was quickly transitioning. If anything, I remember telling him the opposite–that the betrayal cut me to the core, that I couldn’t concentrate, couldn’t eat, and was losing my hair. (Note: All this transpired before I found my spine, thanks to CL, and went NC.)

    So, here’s the nugget: “As I’ve always said, you are stronger mentally and emotionally than I am. Your ability to quickly transition and relish the thought of a new life in the city is further demonstration of that.”

    • “As I’ve always said, you are stronger mentally and emotionally than I am.”

      UBT: You emasculated me with your adulting so it’s your fault I had an affair.”

      “Your ability to quickly transition and relish the thought of a new life in the city is further demonstration of that.”

      UBT: ” Your ability to kick me out of your life for *no fault of mine *demonstrates your emasculating adulting again and that’s why I cheated on you bitch”.

      ((hugs)) Spinach. xx

  • First thing that struck me was his no contact date. October 1st. I’ll give you 3 wks to think about it, Chump. UBT: Gimme 21 days of fuckapalooza, then I’ll hit you back, Chump.

    • My thought was either he’s going to show up on October 1 with some “proof” he’s been abstinent for a few weeks, thinking that will be enough for me to take him back, or it’s fuckapalooza and hopes he’ll have it out of system by October 1.

  • And after October 1st, I’ll do what the fuck I want. (and Oct 1st isn’t set in stone, I reserve my right to mind fuck you on a date of my choosing).

    God, they are all such a waste of skin. ????????

  • “I just cribbed this from the 1,327 emails you sent me during our last reconciliation. See I was paying attention!”–UBT

    The UBT hit this one on the head and for new Chumps just trying to figure things out and desperate for their marriages to reset to zero, this sentence is vital to understanding just how Cheaters will say the “right things.”

    They’re not remorseful. They just want to avoid consequences, and the best way to do that is to pretend to be remorseful by cobbling together all the teary things that you told them you were looking for. Don’t be deceived.

    Past behavior is the surest guide to future behavior. This guy admits to cheating for years and also admits to previous times when he’s thought about giving up his hooker habit but failing. And you know what? He turned around and cheated and he knew that his Chump would take him back if he said “I’m wea-wea, twuwy sowwy.”

    Gray Rock like a champ and continue to kick this cheater to the curb! You and your son deserve so much better!

  • “That love is not my motivation for change; I’m motivated by the harm and trauma I have yet caused the person I’ve loved more than anything and by never wanting to do that to anyone ever again. If I get another chance to be the person in your life that you deserve, I will be eternally grateful. If I don’t, I’ll have to accept the enormous loss and remember it always.”

    So this passage freaked me out. To me this sounded like he’s motivated by the pain he’s caused. I’m no shrink, but I’ve been to many of them this past year and I’d bet money on a diagnosis of psychopath. He’s not motivated to change because he’s an asshole, he likes the drama of hurting you. Get.The.Fuck.Out.

    • Yes. This.

      “I did all of this more times than I can count. If you had done these things to me even once, I’m certain I would have responded the same way you have. I’m certain I would have been traumatized and would have struggled, at best, to believe anything you told me. I would have felt devalued. I would have suffered through mood swings, including depression and anxiety. ”
      “That love is not my motivation for change…”

      He’s twisting the knife for extra pain kibbles. At this point he realizes the lame faux apology is unlikely to work, he just threw it together for the slim chance of free-loading a bit longer. But these sick twisted jerks just can’t resist a passive aggressive “poor you, bet that hurts lol”. My sociopath ex did this. No contact-gray rock is the only way.

  • Tracy, thanks a lot, now you’ve done it! Now when I think of my entitled serial cheater XH, I’ll longer see his face… I’ll see a boil on my ass.

  • Human Remorse-ish

    I laughed for five minutes.
    Tracy, you have literally changed my vocabulary and your -isms are part of savvy prople’s dialect of this era.

    One woman has impacted the world for so many in such a good way.

  • Yes indeed. I use CL’s isms all the time now, occasionally some people are puzzled and ask what I mean; so I respond with telling them about “Leave a cheater, gain a life”, which, along with CN, truly saved my life.

    CL, you are *magnificent*. Thank you.

  • Ah yes, the ubiquitous remorse email. This too shall change to emails of rage and abuse when things don’t go exactly his way in the divorce, then back to remorse-ish when he is once again trying to manipulate you into his way, then back to rage emails when that doesn’t work. The Narcissistic Divorce Cycle. Ask me how I know.

    Whatever happened to a simple “I am so sorry for what I did.” I’ll even take a “Sorry, I’ll leave you alone now.” Even better when it’s paired with “…and I’ll quietly accept whatever divorce settlement comes my way to make things as easy on you as possible.”

    All of these word soup emails and letters from cheating nincompoops are exhausting. If it takes someone that many words to apologize, just know it’s fake.

    My advise is just stay the course, stay no contact, keep your side of the street clean, and keep moving forward no matter. He may be “rudderless” but keep your rudder pointed toward sweet freedom from this dirtbag.

  • Oooh-the WHOLE trifecta!

    1. I am the kicked puppy in this marriage.
    2. The passive/aggressive “You must accept my apology because once again-you are the adult.”
    3. Describing his behavior with a very “detached” sense of guilt.


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