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Help Her Be Friendly to Me

Dear Chump Lady,

My ex-wife and I were married over twenty years and have been divorced over ten.

I was a serial cheater throughout our marriage. We have gotten back together several times after the divorce. After our most recent break up, she is requiring me to find out what it takes for us to be friendly and civil for our three children and two grandchildren. If not, after this break up, she will insist on no contact, which will deeply effect our family as we will not be attending any family events at the same time.

I am asking you for any advice as she is a regular follower of yours. I would like very much for her to be “okay” and able to be around me when it comes to birthdays, weddings special events etc.

Any advice or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Michael

Dear Michael,

Well, this is a curious letter.

You’re writing to me — someone who encourages people to leave people like you — for advice on how to make your ex okay with you. Friendly, even! For the children. (Of course. It’s always for the children.)

That rather takes a brass set of donkey balls, Michael. The last time I got this sort of inquiry, it got shoved down the universal bullshit translator and turned into wood chips.

So, you fucked around on your ex-wife for 20 years, enjoyed cake for another 10, and are concerned that she might now be learning boundaries? And this could have disastrous results for people who are not you?

Let’s parse your letter to better understand this noble request.

I was a serial cheater throughout our marriage. We have gotten back together several times after the divorce. After our most recent break up…

I feel a gaping void of omission here, Mike. Our most recent breakup? Was this a mutual decision? Is it right for me to infer that after 20 years of cheating, followed by another decade of on-again-off-again, that you cheated? Yet again?

Because that would be a useful data point on why she doesn’t want to be friends.

But you’ve presented this situation as a mystery. And maybe it is to you. This woman has been your steady chump for 30 years. She’s provided Happy Family Together Time impression management for decades. So what’s changed? Another break-up? You’re always breaking up, why should this be any different, right?

She should know you’re a treason weasel, and don’t mean the things you say. But she’s played along. Been reliable kibbles.

she is requiring me to find out what it takes for us to be friendly and civil for our three children and two grandchildren.

I don’t believe this. Your chump is requiring YOU to find out how to be friends after a break-up? Advice you could get from a columnist she reads! And if you don’t, by golly, she’s going to go no contact.

Mike, I’m thinking she already went no contact with you, and you’re trying to enlist me to help you break down her barriers. Which is exceptionally mindfucky of you.

If she WERE actually requiring you to “find out what it takes” to be friendly and civil For The Children, I would suggest a time machine. Go back and undo 30 years of casual betrayal. Stop role modeling fuckwittery For The Children.

she will insist on no contact, which will deeply effect our family as we will not be attending any family events at the same time.

Oh, you know what’s deeply affected your family? Your cheating. Your piss-poor example. The time you stole from them. The abuse their mother/grandmother endured. Where’s that on your radar of concern? Why must your ex be painted as Uncivil? I think that award goes to your dick.

Perhaps your ex is sick of performing a 30-year pick me dance and has better things to do with her life. Maybe she’s over being another side-dish at your endless pussy buffet. Perhaps she wants to date a real man, and doesn’t need you as a plus-one at children’s birthday parties.

Any advice or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Consider the astounding possibility that you’re not welcome in her life. And that’s not unfriendly or uncivil, it’s a consequence of your behavior.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • All hail the Asshole in Chief! And if his ex-wife is reading here, honey, you’re doing the right thing. Go total no contact – you don’t need scum like this in your life ever again!

  • To continue the Fargo imagery from CL’s response, your ex hasn’t put your balls through a wood-chipper, Mike my dude. THAT counts as civility in this case.

  • Wow, Micheal what a true gentleman you are. You cheat on your ex for decades. And you have the nerve to demand that your ex be civil to you. You did not give a crap about your children and grandchildren when you fell into other womens vaginas. You did not give a crap about your wife’s health. You put her health at risk every time you scratched your itch. Your ex diserves a real man that will cherish her. Not a fuckwit who needs to get his dipstick wet.

  • Please Chump, if this is your ex, comment and spill the tea!! I need the Michael Jackson popcorn gif for this!

    • And their entitlement!

      This is all I will comment today… this POS is probably getting off on his centrality and I refuse to serve cake.

      What does everyone predict will happen on Groundhog’s day? Will he see his shadow? 🤣

  • The traitor and fake husband I married by deception is named Mike as well.

    It now stands for Missing Integrity Kindness and Empathy.

    To remind me to stay Minimal Contact.
    (we have a child and a business).

    My old goal was a family, a nice home, a successful business, a successful marriage.

    My new goal is to never see his face, hear his voice, or speak to him ever again.

    YOU fucked up your family, MIKE.

    You make me sick and I am glad your wife is here learning to finally get away from a total asshole like you.

    Fuck off you fucking fucker.

  • Hi Mike:

    Here’s what it will take for her to be friendly and civil to you, the man who wrecked her life:

    1. Public apology from you to the entire family and all friends, acknowledging everything you did and the harm it caused.
    2. Financial restitution from you, by sending your ex-wife 50% of everything you have.
    3. Surgical removal of your gonads.

    Let us know how it works out. Good luck!

    • Also….

      Clean up every single lie you told about her to whoever you told it to, with your wife present if she chooses.

      Devote the rest of your life to making amends to your family that you locked inside the house before you and your hitwomen burned it down.

    • Not just an apology… he has to admit he abused her, deceived her, and continued to do so for his advantage, thus causing lifetime trauma to someone that he supposedly “loved.” Same to his children, he should admit that he emotionally manipulated and abused them while he was cheating.

      And… I’d probably still go no contact anyway if I were the wife. He should do that all just to try to be a human and not a selfish toddler-man.

  • Why can’t he visit his adult kids and grandkids on his own time, without his ex there?

    Or does he want them to play happy family and get together as a group? Why? He’s stuck the knife in his wife with a decade of betrayal, and now wants her to be warm and fuzzy with him? And he is weaponzing the kids and grands to try to force her to be ‘nice’ to him?

    Has must have a history of not being friendly and civil in front of their children.

    This whole story makes no sense

    • I’m dealing with the longterm effect of this type of family history. Currently, I play this script in my head a lot, “Oh, you might remember me? I used to work for your dad. I was at your house a lot while you were growing up; cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, taking care of you two. How’s the family? Good. Well, I gotta go.”

      All throughout my marriage I felt as if I was the hired help. I just never got paid. My FW treated me as such and my children learned to do the same. Now, after 40 years he exposed himself as a cheater and my children are following him to be supportive to him. They remind me how happy he is now and how easy he is to get along with (he moved in with his married OW immediately.) And why would I not want him to finally be happy? What exactly does he have to not be happy about, I wonder, with his new viagra prescription and easy pussy? It’s my life that was thrown under the bus and I’ve spent a year lawyered up to protect myself from his attempts to wipe me out financially as well as the huge blow emotionally. He has groomed my children to see me as always the problem so yes, I am the only problem they have now in this new happy life the three of them have moved on to – so they avoid me. Most days it is more than I can bear.

      • Trust us— he’s not “happy.” Never will be. It’s all part of the con.

        You will be happy when you’re free— I promise!

        • Thank you motherchumper99 and all of chump nation. The book and this website have been my only stability and support. I only found CL a couple of weeks ago – and I could have saved thousands of dollars in mental health care this past year if I would have found you all earlier. CL is the only one out there accurately describing the assault and intimate betrayal of my experience.

          I remind myself that CL says I will wither up and die if I keep waiting at the Karma Bus Stop. I see her cartoon in my head. But, alas, I am still sneakily hanging out there a lot, hoping to see even one bus in the distance. So far, “free” feels a bit more like “abandoned” but I work on it everyday. Thank you all for just CARING!

          • Trust me, my friend, the karma bus will arrive. Ideally you will be busy building a fabulous new life and will have scant time or energy to note it’s passage. It will be more like ….Oh so fuckwit suffered that consequence? Hmmmm. How about that. Now back to planning my next adventure, jaunt, new undertaking…. You will reach meh….

          • I have a fantasy that you get a great settlement and end up adopting a couple of sweet, responsible foster kids. When the rats come knocking again, someone opens the door and yells “Mo-om, it’s for you!” over the sounds of a noisy holiday party and a few dogs.

      • Tallgrass, this describe my life to a tee. He has filled our adult children with a pack of lies about me, and they believe him.

        • Mitz – how far out are you from D-Day? My D-Day was March 2020 and the divorce was final at the very end of December 2020. I keep telling myself that it’s still very early in the process and that my adult children have their own families which take up their time and headspace which gives me a ray of hope that time will help.

          • Tall grass. ..I am 5 years out, but we had our kids late. They still buy all his stories that he is sick and paint me as the one that left the family.
            But I have made a good life for myself in spite of all their nastiness. Keeping busy, doing interesting things and meeting new people, and focusing on ourselves and our new lives, is the best thing we can do. Life will always be unfair. But we look after ourselves now.

        • Mitzvah and Tallgrass,
          I’m assuming you are both post-divorce?
          I made my adult children read both our depositions so they could read for themselves what we each had to say and how we answered questions under oath.
          I also sat with them and showed them every credit card charge that was in her neighborhood (dinner and breakfast) when he “slept in the office because the work was overwhelming”. Showed them statements where money was missing and those of the gifts. Also the hidden photo files in my computer.
          THAT spoke louder than anything he could say to them.
          When the proof is black and white, you don’t have to defend yourself or speak to the FWs actions.

          • Mine are actively resisting any information. I tried for nine months to get them to look at those things – even the fact of what I am now paying off in attorney fees and medical bills. In the end, I was screaming and crying through what felt like a thick sheet of glass. They don’t want to know. My 93 year old friend finally told me I have to stop. Unless they come to me and ask, it’s over. I cannot begin to heal up this broken heart while I am still ripping it to shreds everyday over them. As soon as I decided to stop – it was like I cut off my arms to save myself from drowning. I immediately floated up to a place that I can breath. There is still deep pain but day by day I can look at my wounds and be so sad about my loss but I am finally able to function – I’m more steady in just doing my day to day life.

            • Tallgrass
              35 year marriage for me. It is so sad that the world has people such as Michael hurting people just because they can. So many like him. They buy a bottle of viagra and live in an egocentrical bubble. None of it real. My hope is one day they will answer for their disgraces to humanity and the unnecessary pain they caused. That God is not mocked.

              Dont ever believe they are happy, this is a lie. Its a part of their illusion and hologram mask. They are never happy. Remember that faithful one Tallgrass, THEY ARE NEVER HAPPY nor are they ever satified. It is just an impression mirage they want you to see. You however have that capability to be happy, genuine and have a good meaningful life. You are hurting I know and apparently he has manipulated the children. Your hurt is deep, justified and very normal. You invested your life and love in this person who cruelly betrayed you and decieved you with a carefully crafted false mask. Your meh will take time but it will come.

          • My son says he dad cheated due to ptsd, and that he abused me due to his bad childhood. I am glad that you were able to show your children proof!

      • Your example makes a strong argument for not staying in a marriage where you are not respected and treated well, regardless of whether there is cheating or not.

        • LovedAJackass – you are spot on with your comment. So easy to see looking back how much spackling and hopium I was selling to hold it all together. He’s covert narc (in my opinion) and so it was so gradually done like boiling a frog in a pot of water.

          One thing I do see though is that I was likely correct when I felt it was dangerous for me to leave earlier and that (as he many times threatened me) he would have taken the kids from me if I chose to leave. In going through my recent divorce, I will say the attornies and the judge were very well educated in his type and didn’t let him pull any narc wool over their eyes. I don’t think that would have been true 20 or 30 years ago. In fact, I think back on one night when I had been able to get out of the house after a fight and I had both young children in the backseat asleep in my car. I stopped at a pay phone and called the local womens shelter hotline. The hotline person asked if he had been physically abusive and when I said no (except he would bully me with his chest and hold my arms down) – the hotline person told me to go back home…… that was about 1990. Hindsight is 20-20, as they say. It’s good to have all of you here to listen.

          • I’m so sorry you got that mindfuck from a women’s shelter, tallgrass. It’s an added level of betrayal when the people who are supposed to be on your side can’t “get” it. I hope things have changed since then, but it’s also true that a number of us chumps ended up dealing with couples’ therapists (and sometimes individual therapists) who tried to sell the mindfuck as well. The RIC is sadly alive and kicking.

          • That story is sad but doesn’t surprise me. I went through the experience of two different counselors, the second being the worst, who helped FW blameshift. Even today, I have a very dear friend who can’t comprehend how FW can make my life a living hell (I am still in the process of getting my ducks in a row to escape) without physically harming me or yelling. Klootzak in my case is a covert narc who controls all the finances, monitors my location, use of the car, communications, isolates me from friends and family, and cheats 24/7. But he doesn’t yell and I have no bruises so while she understands that the situation is bad and I should leave, she doesn’t think all he has done really add up to much when viewed by courts or outsiders. This is, sadly, still not uncommon.

            Thank you for sharing that the attorneys and judge seemed wise to his type. That gives me a little hope. I don’t intend to ask for anything beyond what I am entitled to. I just want a 50/50 split of marital assets but I do fear he will try to use my son and custody as a bargaining chip. And it makes no sense because I know his schmoopies won’t want a kid around spoiling their good time. But I would rather carry on and roll the dice because I can’t have my son growing up seeing his mother treated this way and – heaven forbid – learning to be the same. And if FW beats me in court and gets primary custody, I can only hope that in a few years when my son is 12 or so, those reasonable judges will hear him if he asks to spend more time with me. No matter what I do, there is a chance FW will alienate me from my son but that is a chance I will have to take. I feel like I – and now we – live in a prison. And at least I can hope to get my son out of it half of the time.

      • tallgrass, I am so sorry at the way things are going for you with your FW. I pray that your children will see him for what he is and return to you.

        For years my FW father tried to make me feel like my mother was the problem….she was depressed, she was unhappy, she didn’t like to *do* anything, she ________. I wouldn’t say I was on his side, per se, but I bought into that and always felt like my role was the peacemaker and I had to keep both of them happy and so catered to both of their needs.

        Now that the truth has come out and I realize he is a self-serving narcissist who is a pathological liar and abuser and serial cheater and manipulator, I think my mother is a very strong woman to have just survived a long marriage with such an asshole. I support her 10000% and am barely keeping the peace with him for the moment; eventually I will go NC with him.

        Keep the faith that your kids will eventually see through his lies. They may be in survival mode now and so have “chosen him” because of something he can give them. Maybe he is dangling carrots of some type of security or financial help. Maybe they are playing their cards for now and will come back to you when the time is right, you never know.

        • Thank you. And yes, I think “peacekeeper” is a role my children think they need to fill right now. I suppose that may make sense to them. My dad was a cheater and once he announced his girlfriend and shadow family – I never had contact with him again. What he did was disgusting and painful and my mom and us kids barely survived it and that is no exaggeration. So then I carefully choose a spouse whose top qualities are “honesty and loyalty”……. wow it is such a devastation when the mask falls off. An alternate universe was happening right beside my reality.

          I can’t think of CL’s example right now – but something about people thinking they are helpful by dealing with the trivial parts of this mess – all the while the real situation is the bombing and scorched earth type damage. I will have to read the book again – for the third time!

          • Oh my gosh Tallgrass. This is me.

            My daughters who are 20 and 24 have turned on me and the pain is unbearable. It’s bad enough my spouse defrauded me of money, stole my household goods, took my vehicle….but now the kids.

            Like you I stood by my mom when my father blew up our lives. I couldn’t imagine turning on her. Now I’m not only abused by ex husband by by children and it is very difficult to bear.

        • BS & Lies,
          Doesn’t it suck to be a grade school domestic abuse counselor? Kudos on seeing through a lifetime of BS & Lies. So damaging.

          Tallgrass,
          You are strong to have maintained your sanity & perspective in this. God speed.

      • Aside from defrauding, neglecting and deceiving you, and pouring money and attention into his cheating instead of you and the family, the fact that he took the time to actively poison the well of love between you and your children with false narrative is chilling. A heart that dark will never rest easy, Tallgrass, know that. He’ll never know the simple pleasures of life, he’s more like a shark, a predator looking for his next meal. I always mention to people who are hurt when their ex moves in immediately with the AP, don’t ever take that is proof of their undeniable, starcrossed love, he’s a predator, she’s his mark, and it’s simply that he needs somewhere to stay. It’s all about his selfish needs. Of course he’s going to make out that he’s happy for the children, he’s never going to say, well I made my bed, Tallgrass drew boundarieis and now I’m lying in the consequences. Because what fuckwit will admit that they blew up their family for a fuck, no it has to be A) Bigger Than The Both of Them or B) Tallgrass was so mean and I was driven into the arms of another women. Smell the self-responsibility in both of those statements (or not). Kudos on lawyering up and protecting your financial health, as you said, he’s going for his, so it’s only right that you look out for your own interests in securing your future, and don’t let anyone shame you for that. Hugs.

        • Thank you! Yes, he’s a predator. And I can guarantee OW can’t go to the bathroom that he isn’t stalking the door to be sure she doesn’t escape. It will be for her to decide if that all out possessiveness is her dreamy twu wuv or her prison as the months go by. They’ve been together about a year now – if he follows his pattern he should start the quick shift to devalue soon. And he’s old now so I’m sure this love bombing is wearing him out quicker than it did when he pursued me so long ago. Narcissistic red flags should be taught in every high school, I swear! It is so clear once you know the traits.

          • Dear Tall Grass
            I had to play the long game. 27 year marriage blown up when my Husband turned 60; by his affair with his 36 yr old SAHMM. I felt like I had been burnt. He brought her into our business, and our lives. My adult daughters were weaponised against me. Two sets of families blown asunder. It’s now 4 years, I have just filed for divorce and I live a better life every day. His relationship with Legs Open Lucy did not last 6 months.
            Both cheaters have aged a decade from this experience and I have focussed on me. My daughters have all come round. I have their respect and their love.
            I did not think it would end this well and I imagined a parallel universe where I would be sidelined.
            You have to invest in those who love you (your tribe/your support) and play the long game.
            You have our love, our support and we will hear you out; anytime you need!
            You are brave! Hand on your heart; go forward!

        • Oh, so this. ..it’s Not true love, it’s convenience, desperation and an easy way out instead of setting up a home on their own. Helps if the OW is a dumb bitch too who thinks her man is fantabulous for abandoning his kids for her!

          • Yep, they think that guy is great for terrorizing his wife and leaving them for themselves. Then when that turret is turned on them, they cry and moan about how awful it is.

            My ex fws widow (now 65) is now living in an old folks trailer park complex. I wonder if she is humping the leg of some woman’s 80 year old husband to get another meal ticket. My ex fw left her in huge debt. I only know because we share a son.

            Turn about is fair play, he left me with nothing but a minimum wage job. I had to rebuild on my own, which I did quite successfully.

      • My Cheater treated me like a booby prize, a toilet of an appliance and everything was my fault. At times the kids followed suit. When he dies, they seemed like they were going to be happy sitting on my sofa and spending insurance money til it was gone, so I sent them out to the world. They have seemingly finally detoxified from the terrible example set by thier father in how he acted towards me.

        I should have known, though…Cheaters father was wonderful to everyone but his wife – who he treated like a booby prize.

        Dont subject yourself to their shit if they are disrespectful…go build a life that you enjoy.
        Years ago, I used to tell myself that I wanted to go live alone where everyone didnt blame me for everything. I do live like that now except that I have a new husband who made soe really awful soup for dinner tonight but didnt blame me.

    • Mitz

      Why? Because he is an entitled duck who believes that everyone should dance around him – starting with an ex wife.
      That’s why.
      Oh, poor thing is sad because she doesn’t wanna play along anymore… cry me a river ….
      if the wife is reading this- girl, spill the beans ( facts only – dad was cheating on me the whole marriage, he sees nothing wrong with it but I do. So, no charades and games anymore) and live your life with a NC.
      We all have been there… it’s hard to pick up the pieces left from our younger selfs, but it can be done.
      Hugs to all

  • you treated your wife appallingly, I think you’re taking the piss. what was so special about the ow. do you think your behaviour didn’t affect your children? you expect your wife to be your friend you definitely have issues with women. you didn’t have any stis did you or even HIV, herpes. you contacted chump lady to laugh at the answers, didn’t you? the money and time you spent on the ow, you could have spent on your wife, bet the ow told you how wonderful you were and you fell for it. your tragic really arent you.
    my exs ow threatened to kill me several times do you find that funny. I bet you do.

  • They just don’t get it when you refuse to stay in the compartment assigned to you on their crazy train. She’s had it with you, asswipe. Capisce???

  • Here’s how you can avoid problems with each other at shared events- you go, for about an hour, kiss your loved ones, and then leave and crawl back under your rock. Let her enjoy the beautiful world they have all managed to build while you have continually shown that you think you deserve that, and a whole fucking side life. Be perfunctory, like the shell of a man you are. Bring gifts, sign cards, sign cheques, contribute to college savings, and slither away. Make your family aware of when you’re coming and leaving, so they can inform her and she can avoid you. Don’t approach her or talk to her or send messages through the kids. Leave her the fuck alone. Go find the flying monkey high life you have continually pursued anyways, and let the rest of these people be normal. Show up enough that they know you’re alive but since they know you have never actually cared about them you can head out quickly and get back to Candy or Tina or Bobbi-Ho or whomever it is your filling your vacuous empty shell of life with now.

  • Dear Michael,
    You seek advice and recommendations? No problem.

    My advice is that after 30 years of despicably torturing another human being, you fuck off and leave her in peace. My recommendation is also that you fuck off and leave her in peace. When you get done fucking off and leaving her in peace, fuck off and leave her in peace some more.
    Now get busy buying your ticket to Fuckoffitytown so she can live the rest of her days in Peaceville. Stop wasting bandwidth and CL’s time on such a painfully obvious, douchey attempt at a mindfuck. You just aren’t as good at it as you think you are. Clearly, your ex chump has wised up to your game of lifelong chump tormenting and now you’re trying to match wits with CL because you know your ex reads here. Well you came to battle unarmed, small fry. Did you actually think CL would HELP you in your chump torturing because she’d think; “Oh, what about what’s best for the children and grandbabies? I’ll advise the chump to blow this cheater once a week and paste a sappy grin on her face every time she sees him so as to to keep peace in the family. Yeah, that’s the ticket!” Dude, either you’re flat out delusional or you didn’t bother to read anything CL has ever written before trying her patience with this horseshit. The less your children and grandchildren see of the likes of you, the better off they’ll be. So hurry up and do your fucking off already.

    Oh, and fuck off this site and leave us in peace, too.
    You’re welcome.🤡

  • Wow Mike,

    My advice is to go fuck yourself and any women desperate enough and leave your ex alone. Devote yourself full time to your hobby and go away.

  • You ever heard the term Covert Narcissism? Sweet people. Language skills out the old wazoo. Wouldn’t hurt a fly. Is there a “but” in there? You betcha? People like that always get the attention. Always get their way. It’s so subtle that poor Chumps keep seeing the shiny surface and forget to look underneath. You have had THIRTY YEARS TO BECOME A GOOD HUSBAND AND FATHER! Do you see why no one here is buying your bullshit?

  • Entitlement at its finest. You don’t own her. The open door policy went for far too long. You don’t deserve her Mike!!! You are not married anymore, leave her alone and go on with your empty, shallow life. Us normal people prefer real emotions and commitments. She is not a choice, or a toy you pick up when you are bored. Take a hike and learn some respect!

  • Consequences suck. I was married for 28 years when my FW moved onto greener pastures. I haven’t seen or spoken to him in 16 months now and it’s wonderful. I’m still sad yes (divorce isn’t finalized) but I had no idea how toxic he was until I was away from him. My health is better I laugh more. The Children don’t miss him at all because he torched that bridge and he wasn’t all that involved before you know because he was “working” with his howorker. People like you suck only you truly can’t see it. You say you do but you don’t. You’re just upset it didn’t go your way. Sorry not sorry.

    Look do what us chumps were forced to do. Move on.

  • Fuck off, Mike. I hate you and your stupid ass cheater face. You are waste of oxygen. You suck.

    You don’t even deserve civility. You arrogant ignorant user. You used your wife for thirty years. So for the next thirty years you can make it up by fucking off and fixing your evil lack of a soul. Leave your family alone, you chose your dick, go be with your dick and quit victimizing your former family. There is no family for you, Mike.

    If you want to be “nice” send her a large bank check and then leave your victim alone.

  • This guy strikes me as the type who tries to get the front seat everywhere to she goes to invalidate and isolate her and piss on her territory, and I’d wager he just learned about CL and wants the front seat here, too.

    May he forever wallow in the complete and utter waste of an existence he builds and rebuilds for himself each and every day — and bring as few people as possible with him.

    May she thrive and enjoy a life with as little of him as possible in it.

    As for “the family”, I’m sure they are smart and strong and resilient, and they have her to lean on for support. I’m confident they’ll do just fine.

  • “I would like very much for her to be “okay“

    Michael honey. She is more than “okay”. She is fucking fantastic. She finally wised up and got you out of her life. She is “okay” for the first time in 30 years.

    “And able to be around me when it comes to birthdays…”

    No one gives a fuck what you want, Michael.

    “ she is requiring me to find out what it takes for us to be friendly”

    Michael honey. You know how we all know this is bullshit? Because it doesn’t make any fucking sense. I know you think you are a good liar Michael. But you are just a liar.

    Leave. Her. The Fuck. Alone.

    • $38,000 – exactly what it will take for me to ever be friendly to my ex. (That’s the cost of my attorney bills for 9 years of his failed post divorce litigation nonsense.)

  • I am always amazed with how they get concerned about “family” when there are consequences for their bad actions.
    How the situation is now framed as the exwife being responsible and he is just doing the right thing.
    Serial cheating is the worst of all offenses in a family setting. It is pure entitlement at the expense of everyone else. And of course here displayed as if it is a mystery for him on why the exwife would want no contact.

    Sometimes these letters and the faked innocence is hard to digest.

    http://www.notmymonkeys.net

    • This tickles me, too.

      Where was the concern for “family” or “the children” when they were fucking strange?

      Why the F does the public at large think it’s the chump’s job to normalize the behavior of nasty whores?

      I’ve got news for anyone who dares to school me that my ex cheating bastard is “still” my kid’s dad: Yeah, he’s such a great “dad” that he didn’t mind leaving it up to another man (a step-dad) to show his daughter what a real “man” is. To me, that says A LOT. There is NO WAY I would have EVER chosen to give up my daughter more than 50 percent of the time. “The children” mean nothing to these pieces of excrement. It’s all a ruse for them to try and get their way when they’ve exhausted all other avenues. I wish the courts would see that cheaters really don’t give a fuck about their kids, they just don’t want to pay child support.

    • I still think of how ridiculous my ex was. Right after he had just spent a year and a half, lying to me, gaslighting me, stealing from me, insulting me, screaming at me for stupid shit, then his parting shot was I never loved you and I have been cheating for 10 years. (21 year marriage): He then says “I hope we can be friends”.

      Seriously. Where the hell do they get off? No we can’t be friends, I am years out now and I did forgive him, in that I no longer wished for him to be floating face down in the Ohio River. But, we never became “friends”. At any family functions like graduations weddings etc, that we had to both attend, he never once in all those encounters would look me in the eye. Schmoops would say hi, and I would say hi back, no long discussions or jokes. He however would look away, and find an excuse to do something else when he could. Not that I blame him, I don’t think I could ever face someone I had treated as badly as he treated me.

      No way would they be “friends” with someone who treated them like that, yet they expect us to be.

  • Michael, your timeline freaked me out for a minute. I was married for about that long and have been divorced for the same. Fortunately, I haven’t “gotten back together several times” with my ex since the divorce.

    My ex, like all cheaters, is a toxic person. I haven’t seen or heard from him in ages and four of our five children don’t see or speak to him either. They know he’s toxic. Michael, you’re a bad person. Leave your ex alone. If you care about your children and grandchildren see them when their mother/grandmother is doing something else.

    To the Woman Formerly Married to that Scum: No contact is your best choice. That’s how to live your best life. Keep it up. The longer you go without seeing or hearing from scum, the easier it is and the happier you will be. Your children and grandchildren deserve a mom/grandmother who is free from the pain and turmoil of dealing with that scum. Long term no contact doesn’t lead to rainbows and unicorns, but it does give peace and joy.

  • Here’s a novel idea Mike, let the family enjoy themselves without your entitlement. Stay home with your prize and own your shit. No one will miss either of you. Do that for your children and grandchildren. There’s no image to maintain.

    • Yes. DO THE RIGHT THING MIKE since you never have before. Stay home and let them enjoy themselves without a liar in their presence. Reflect on your entitlement and how to be a better person. Get yourself in therapy. CHANGE.
      But if not, then at least learn to accept the consequences of your choices. That would be a first step in showing them that you actually give a crap about their feelings.

  • I get so hostile with this BullShit and society saying we can get over it, move on, and forgive!!! Screaming to the hills.

    Hollywood still plagues cheating as ok! So many movies, including some of my old favorite classics I cannot watch anymore: Casablanca and The Philadelphia Story.

    I am in so much therapy for the mindfuckery and emotional abuse from my covert narc cheater. I cannot even think about dating again and I am only in my late 40’s. My soon to be ex(yes the fucker refuses to negotiate anything except in court and my court dates are every 4 months- its been 3 yrs now) says that crap for the children’s sake. If anyone videotaped the lump on the floor crying their heart out, some of us several times, maybe just maybe would we get the pain attention we deserve.

    So happy for this site where people get it.

  • And the blame shift happens again. Consequences to their actions?!

    FW: “What are consequences? What I did wasn’t that bad to deserve consequences. See I’m trying to listen to you.” (Meanwhile in their head they are thinking of how to shift what you say back on you)

    When my FW cheated and he started experiencing consequences like me moving out, our mutual friends not talking to him anymore, and people telling him he was wrong…he told me “well I’ll buy you groceries.” BUY ME GROCERIES?! As if that would make up for the epic long list of lies and emotional abuse.

    • Yes, my STBX also pulls the “nice person” act. Nice nice nice – until I need something that actually costs her something. Like changing her behavior and keeping the kids socially distanced from their friends after Covid arrived, to help keep me well until I can get a vaccine.

      I can’t wait for the day I don’t have to rely on STBX for anything, because the “niceness” is just a front. Just like Michael, and most cheaters, my STBX has a problem with natural consequences. Too bad!

  • CL, you said it all.

    When I picture these cheaters trying to explain how they were wronged and not understanding why we can’t just “get over it” and “be nice,” I always see the dopiest face at a tilt — eyes blinking blankly, mouth agape. I picture him as a complete idiot. They never seem to understand consequences of their actions.

    For the dope (and my ex as well, since I’m here)… in the words of the t-shirt I saw in the schlocky store windows of NYC right after my divorce:

    “Fuck You, You Fucking Fuck”

    (love that shirt)

  • Miley’s agenda here is obviously himself, not his wife. He wants kibbles from his kids and grandkids, and he wants image management, and it’s hard to be seen as the beloved family patriarch if they don’t invite you to “birthdays, weddings, special events. etc.” Yeah, they aren’t giving you the chair at the head of the table at holiday meals, and maybe you don’t even get an invite to family barbecues or the grandkids’ graduations.
    Mikey mentions this twice: “She will insist on no contact, which will deeply effect our family as we will not be attending any family events at the same time.” and ” I would like very much for her to be “okay” and able to be around me when it comes to birthdays, weddings special events etc.”
    Poor little Mikey. It sounds like the FAMILY does not want to play with him any more, or refuses to let him have Disney Dad privileges at his convenience.. “But it’s CWISSMAS! I don’t wanna be alone on CWISMASS!” An what does it say about HIS behavior and how he treats the chump at those events, if after 30 years, she is “requiring me to find out what it takes for us to be friendly and civil for our three children and two grandchildren.” Mikey, you don’t know what it takes to be friendly and civil in public and family situations? Are you kidding me? She’s not asking you to find out what it takes for HER to be friendly and civil, so what does that about how you’ve treated her in public as well as private? I don’t think Mikey wants advice, I think he wants Chump Lady to hand him a “Get Out of Jail Free”card that he flaunt to the Chump or the family to force them to include him.
    Poor Mikey. He finally got hit by the Karma bus and he doesn’t like it.

    • I think Mike’s main concern here is the huge cock block effect that having to tell new girlfriends that he doesn’t go to family events is having on his social life. “Please help me Chump Lady, telling new ladies that I’m not allowed near my family because I was super shitty and selfish for 30 years is a real turn off for them. How can I flaunt my fabulous new life to my ex and show new prospects I’m an old-fashioned family guy, but It Just Didn’t Work Out if I’m not around!?”It’s still all about him.

      • I wish what you said is true but there is always another mark for these types. Think Ted Bundy’s fan club. My ex remarried quickly after his AF/howorker went back to her husband. He was alone, broke and unemployed and living in a one bedroom apartment. Within a few months he managed to find a well employed woman/homeowner/future chump who bought his sob story as to why his children and his ex refuse to have anything to do with him. My guess is he never copped to all of the years of cheating and abuse and fell back on his story of woe that actually turned the kids against him. He loves to tell people that he was a battered spouse for 20 years (both physically and emotionally) and that I beat him up, threw him out and turned the kids (all young adults) against him. In addition to this ridiculous lie he loves to tell people that his greatest accomplishment as a father was hiding all of the abuse from our kids. It’s amazing that anyone would believe this – he is basically saying that I am an out of control raging lunatic out of one side of his mouth and that I am cool enough to never slip up and abuse him in front of the kids EVER in the course of 20 years. Needless to say he is now living comfortably in her house and has a job at her place of employment – I almost feel sorry for her but honestly anyone who believes something that outrageous sort of nonsense sort of deserves the consequences.

        • Yep, sad but true in a lot of cases as well. She’s totally crazy, but I feel okay leaving the kids with her and swanning off with the new person, because hey, she’s not totally crazy.

  • Hey limpdick Mike, you are a prick. Yeah -we’ve got your number! Your exwife is trying to get you out of her life but you sabotage her by using her children to get to her. Poor woman-her heart betrays her BUT Sounds like she is finally tired of your BS and you can’t handle it. Good! Hope you are finally realizing what a worthless cockroach you are and feel the guilt and angst of the thief you are. And may you carry this shame to your grave, your dick shrivel up, your teeth fall out and you catch multiple STDs that drive you insane. Eat shit and die.

    • They aren’t quite as clueless as they pretend to be. They’re usually calculating and scheming even when they look loke they are idiotically flailing about as Mike does. It’s just that they are so used to their chump falling for their schemes that they can’t accept that the chump has wised up and that other people will see through them as well. He’s had 30 years of somebody buying into his lies and manipulations. Of course he’s confused and desperate when it no longer works. Mike should really thank CL and CN for helping to clear up his confusion.
      Methinks he doesn’t quite see it that way. 😁

      • Not clueless, manipulative. Poor Mike, he is soooo desperate to make things right with his ex that he even wrote to Chump Lady for help. He is trying so hard and she just won’t let it go and forgive him. Plenty of flying monkeys and other clueless non-chumps will give him loads of pity kibbles for this sad, sad story….

        • Bingo.
          I bet he was hoping to put on a display of tearfully showing the letter to friends and family, only now he’ll have to hope they don’t check the site out since CL and CN called him out as the manipulative freak he is.
          It’s a miscalculation on his part, but then cheaters aren’t particularly smart. They just think they are because so many people have trusted them and believed their lies. They fail to understand that it’s simply because humans are supposed to be able to trust each other in order for society to function. Trust is the automatic default and a sign of being normal and healthy. It is not stupidity and weakness like disordered scumbags think it is.

      • So true. For all CL talks about narcissists having only 3 channels I think they can feel shock once in while. I remember the look on Nitwit’s face when I refused to take him back after he told me the OW had broken up with him and he was about to lose his job. Utter shock. His sad sausage routine had always worked before, why wouldn’t it work now? By that point I had found CN and recognized it as the hoovering it was. If I had been in a particularly savage mood I might have handed him a copy of “Who Moved My Cheese?” and told him to read it.

        • I am so thankful that the whore never dumped him. Lucky for me she was living at poverty level and really needed that meal ticket.

          Had she dumped him at least for the first six months or so, I would have taken him back and he would have shit all over me again. I gave him one chance about a month after we legally separated. Let him shit on me, and then kick him out.

          He hoovered back at least three more times, and I did reject him, but I was pretty sure he was still screwing her, and he just needed to destabilize me. Had I know for sure she dumped him who knows. But thankfully she held on like a rabid bull dog, and I eventually saw him for what he was.

  • Michael –
    You could learn a thing or two from Chump Lady’s years of posts. Like, you can’t control other people. You can’t make someone want to interact with you, especially when you have emotionally abused her for 30 years.

    It’s abuse, Mike. You have been an abusive spouse.

    Stop worrying about your ex, and start working on yourself. Work on your relationships with your kids and grandkids, if you can. Start by apologizing to your grown children, and mean it. Figure put how to make practical amends. (Example: If your grown kids need therapy to deal with the mindfuck of growing up with you, their traumatized mother, and the Adverse Childhood Event of divorce, offer to pay for their therapy.)

    And give your poor ex the gift of never having to be in the same space with you, her abuser, ever again. Here are the only acceptable reasons to try to get in touch with your poor ex in the future: If you screwed her in the financial settlement, offer to renegotiate it. Even if you didn’t screw her over, if you come into money, maybe you could offer to give her a big chunk of it, zero strings attached. (Giving money to people you’ve abused does NOT entitle you to be in contact with them.)

    But other than offering to give her money, leave her the hell alone and let her figure out what she wants. Be prepared that, given the trauma she’s experienced, she will likely seem very confused and might send you mixed messages, as she has done in the decade since your divorce. Chump Lady (and all us chumps) would advise her to end all contact with you. I hope she takes that advice.

  • Dear Mike,
    As the song goes, “How can I miss you if you won’t go away?” Haven’t you done enough damage to her and your kids? I think it is time for you to get one of those pricey sex robots that will fuck your brains out. Because when you are done with them all it takes is a good flushing with disinfectant and freshly recharged batteries and they are good to go. They even learn to give you what you want so you feel like a REAL man. Your family seems to have never learned that it is all about you.

  • The family will not suffer if Mike and his ex aren’t at events at the same time – that’s ludicrous. They may want relationships with both people – who knows but will not experience pain over them not coming in a pair. It’s only Mike who will suffer because Mike wants to enjoy being a family man and pals with the woman he tormented and now he can’t. Boo hoo, asshole.

  • Michael- throughout your life you will call your wife controlling, say this is unfair, say that shes uncivil or that things are in the past and if shes really a good person she would forgive you, but because she’s not being “the better” person it means that she’s just as bad a person as you are.
    Im here to tell you that enforcing a boundary “if you cheat on me again ill go no contact” IS NOT ABUSE- it’s a direct consequence of your actions.

  • All of the above😂😂😂Like many cialis addicted serial cheaters…. they got so wrapped up in believing the OW’s drivel about how special they were, they are now having a toddler temper tantrum. Exwife should continue to plan,clean,shop, cook,decorate, and serve at all holidays. Asshole Dick will grace everyone with his presence and bring his latest sidefuck to show them how easily he can replace them. Because that’s all his family was to him….a good party when he felt like it.

  • Mike,

    What makes you think that the children and grandchildren want the family get-togethers? They are fake and forced. Kids are perceptive. I strongly doubt that they think well of you. You don’t get to have the perks of being a good dad and husband without acting like a good dad and husband. You blew that up when you cheated.

    Consequences suck.

    So, for once, stop acting entitled. You are a sorry model of behavior for your family.

  • PSA to this douche-bag’s X: get a protection order against Mike. Let a judge and jailer impose some consequences!

    Disclaimer: I’m a kick ass take names litigator in real life but this isn’t legal advice— get a lawyer!

  • You had thirty years to address this problem Michael and I’m sure your ex-wife has expressed her feelings. If you wanted to change things, you would have. Nothing any of us tell you here is going to make a bit of difference, so give it a rest already.

  • Just chiming in here to say that it makes my heart happy to read the replies. Why? Because so many times the abusers get off scot-free and the chump is supposed to just get over it or move on or forgive and forget AND make nice-nice for image management.

    Fuck these motherfuckers. They gloss over the damage they do to the family unit, to the chump, to the kids who suffer in silence (or who suffer by self-harm, drug abuse, hooking up with abusers and repeating the cycle, poor performance in life, feeling not good enough or unworthy, and having a lifetime of psychic pain). They move on to the next OW or OM as if nothing happened, completely lacking in conscience and caring that they hurt an entire family.

    My father is a serial cheater. I have most of their names. It is on my to-do list after my parents’ divorce to write to each of them and tell them what I know about them, out them to the heads of the company where they worked with my father, let them know they didn’t get away with this great secret, and I shall curse them with the explosive diarrhea curse. If I can find their spouses I might just send them notes as well. Fuck them. Okay, I might not be brave enough to do it, but I fantasize about it every day.

    Mike, you are a fucking asshole. You do not deserve your family. You do not deserve to go to family functions and have your chumpy ex-wife be nice to you. You don’t deserve to, as another poster said, sit at the head of the table as if you are the great patriarch. You are a piece of shit and I hope you suffer immensely and get lice in your pubic hair and a worm up your urethra and your balls fall off. This is spoken from the daughter of a cheater who now wants nothing to do with her own father. The harm you have done your children is irreparable. You probably have a great family. You don’t deserve to be a part of it.

    Fuck off.

    • My cheating father Harlow Stonewaller got prostate cancer, does that count ? Karma bus 🚌 toot toot
      Research now shows some untreated venereal diseases cause this cancer. His wife 3.0 Hell now has to deal with him popping a blue pill, shoving his dick in her without any foreplay and then telling her she’s a good lay. It was eye opening and disturbing to read my mother’s journals after she died.

      • Ooof. I can’t imagine reading that about your own dad. I’m sorry. Again, the ripple effects of cheating extend far and wide.

        Note to self: destroy my own journals or make my kids promise to destroy them without reading. I don’t want to censor myself.

        • My father presents as a prep school/Ivy League educated nerd with glasses. His career was in public relations (word salad tosser-perfect for an emotional abuser) but he’ll die as a philatelist. I call him the philandering philatelist.
          The saying “Don’t try to read a book by its covers” fits. Most people don’t have a clue regarding his true nature. I know and stay away from him.

          • Ugh! I know the type. “[P}rep school/Ivy League educated nerd with glasses” describes my ex.

            It’s so easy for these types to fool people especially if you have a caring, spackling wife, successful kids, and a job in medicine. The perfect cover!

            No one suspected. Even I didn’t suspect.

      • No foreplay and telling her she is a good lay? Sounds familiar🙋‍♀️ Narcissists are selfish lovers.

    • Bullshit and Lies,

      It’s interesting to have the perspective of the child of a serial cheater here.

      Mike should consider that his own kids might feel the same. What makes him think they even WANT him at these functions?

      p.s. I’m sorry your dad is such a skeeve. Ugh. The kids suffer so much, too!! Fuck these cheaters.

  • Sorry buddy, you’re toast. Your ex wife can’t stand you and I suspect your kids will be quick to follow, if they haven’t already, given what a total selfish asshole you are. Of course you’re scrambling…all your little family kibbles are disappearing. No one wants to stare at a gross jerk over dinner rolls. So…go away.

    If you were smart, you’d disappear from your ex’s line of vision and do whatever it takes to make amends with your kids, be selfless with them…but you won’t. You’d rather send emails trying to get some internet stranger to clean up your mess.

    And to the d-bag’s ex…the time is NOW for no contact. Stop sending this guy on missions and start living YOUR life. I went no contact with my ex, aside from necessary child mgmt issues, and it’s fantastic. And I think much easier for children. With no contact, kids don’t have the pressure of having to emotionally wrangle with their parents fractured relationship that keeps being paraded in front of their faces at family events. It’s exhausting watching two people barely stomach eachother. Give your kids the gift of closure. Be an ear for them to vent about their dad, if they need it, but never again welcome him into your life.

  • Mike,
    You admit to decades of abuse and expect accommodation from the person you abused? Please tell us what you’re deserving of and entitled to for the sake of your children and grandchildren. You’re not only a bad person, you’re also a tone deaf POS.

  • I’m not interested in throwing Mike any kibbles.

    But I am interested in the woman he betrayed, over and over.

    Dear Chump Ex-Wife, If you’ve finally figured out that this guy is a total user and decided to go full no-contact, good for you. Stick to it this time. You can’t gain a life if you keep falling for the same routine that this jackass pulls over and over.

    He says here that he’s a serial cheater. Please note that nowhere does he saw that he regrets how he hurt you and the kids. He does not mention remorse. He doesn’t acknowledge your pain. As CL notes, he omits how you end up getting back together and then breaking up several time–or why those break-up happened. All of this is a sign that your XH is a selfish user. I’m not sure why you took him back more than once, but he’s had enough chances. You’re worthy of loving, kind, and honest treatment, not to be a producer of babies and an endless Plan B when old Mike is between Schmoopies.

    Please kick him to the curb.

    • This. OP’s Chump, it takes two for a merry-go-round ride (to continue). Time for YOU to take responsibility for continuing to provide the merry-go-round. Close the ride forever. That means strict NO CONTACT forever. This User will never stop getting on the ride if you don’t shut it down.

  • One of the most abusive things my STBX said to me was, “you need to be friendlier to me.” This was a week after DDay when I found out he was fucking a young client at our business, oh, and 13 years of whoring around before that. We were in a board room style meeting together and I wasn’t very friendly to him apparently. So, after the meeting he pulled me into a room and said that awful thing to me about me not being friendly. I was so shocked by that after all he’d done to me that I nearly fell over. I was so frightened and hurt at his utter lack of empathy that I left the office and went home and crawled into bed and put the covers over my head. I cried for the next day at this weird and cruel event. I was so hurt and confused I could barely think.

    So Mikey, that’s how it feels to be told to be friendly by a person who shat on you and broke up your family.

      • Or, in cheaterspeak (as translated by CL): “The problem isn’t my actions, but your reactions.” So, a form of blameshifting.

        • Yep, mindfuckery of the highest order! Minimising, blame-shifting, DARVO and a few other things all rolled into one. Not only did he say that, but he took me into a small meeting room and he stood in front of the door when he told me – so there was some intimation thrown in for good measure…and he had those cold snake eyes too…

  • Boy o boy Mike. You must be hung like a moose. (Or think you are…)
    Today you kicked the bee hive.

    When you look at the man in the mirror, What do you see? Please, tell me! What have you gained?

    “By their works you shall know them…”

    So, …Bravo Bud!…for taking your mask off. Dash off now and go look for my x on Tinder or whatever validation domain you freaks live in. You two would make a lovely couple.

    I’ll leave the rest of your evisceration to the Real, Authentic Women that reside here (my Sisters).

    I hope your kids (and All the children of adultery-I qualify) get a “Real man step dad” as a point of reference for navigating their otherwise tainted lives.

    You don’t get that title. You demoted yourself to a “father”.

    Any man can father (seed) a child. Only a REAL man can Earn the title DAD.

    • Funny, I was listening to a song that included the lyrics “Take a look in the mirror/ What do you see?/ Do you see it clearer or are you deceived?” while reading your comment? The OP is deceiving himself if he thinks his kids are happy watching him continue to abuse and undermine their mother. OP was so eager to let her go so he could explore greener pastures, now he is terrified she might actually go.

      I love the last line. I consider myself very fortunate to have had a real dad. I think it’s part of what helped me get out after just 3 years of marriage instead of 30. I knew what a real man looked like and was able to figure out my STBXH wasn’t it. Once Nitwit expressed surprise that my dad had never cheated on my mom. He (my dad) was good looking as a young man, so why wouldn’t he? They will never, ever understand the quiet contentedness that comes from living a clean life.

      • NMMNC,

        Cosmic forces at work?

        My daughter tells me she has the best dad in the world. Every penny. Every dirty diaper, lost tooth, hand made fathers day card, broken heart soothed. All the sacrifices I made I did for her. That included letting her mother go and watching alcohol destroy her. I swore my daughter would never grow up rin the alcoholic chaos I was exposed to.

        When I close my eyes for the last time, I’ll go with a full heart knowing with her, I did it right. Not perfect, but right.

        No one can take that away from me. Ever.

  • I am in doubt this was sent by a serial cheating X husband as they are spineless cowards. It sounds more like an OW who is trolling for the appearance of acceptance from adult children and grandchildren. The Chumps absence is the invisible elephant in the room.

  • “Dear” Michael,

    You are the flamiest of flaming assholes.

    As Chumplady has suggested before…..Go Boil your Head!

    Get yourself some professional help, leave her alone, and go gently fuck yourself.

    If you have done this for that long, you are a soul-less waste of oxygen.

    Maybe with whatever time you have left in your pathetic, moral-less, soul-sucking life, you can do some good somewhere.

    ….but I doubt it.

    Are you glad you wrote?

  • My father died this morning. He was my original barbed wire monkey. Not all of my memories of him are bad. I don’t know if he cheated on my mother, but he had the capacity to make every one around him miserable through verbal abuse. He was alone, and possibly had just woken up. My brother, who had been taking care of him found him. He was 89, and in poor health, and he died without ever apologizing for anything he ever said or did to anyone. As Loved a Jackass pointed out above, cheating is not the only form of abuse.

    I know my father had a hard scrabble life as a child. He never got over that, and always reminded us we were working class people, no royal entitlement in our blood. He had the sense to leave his home, and get an education, and live in a suburb to raise the family. But his head never left the early years, where women were second class citizens, not to be trusted or valued except as servants, and men were supposed to control everything. He was able to alienate everyone. He never had remorse.

    So what does this have to do with anything? My dad had a type B personality disorder. I married men with type B personality disorders. Twice. And the beat goes on, and the road goes on forever. But with my Dad, and one ex, they died, and now its no contact forever. Easier in some ways for me, and I can accept its done and move on. I can cherry pick memories. No contact does that. Keep this in mind when you are feeling weak. Eventually, time will settle all of these details.

    Children are stressed with details and still live in a should and could world. They have to figure it out over time. Have faith they will figure it out. If they don’t, they don’t. Take care of you. That is a wonderful gift for you and your children. All of the rest is sifting through the pain and trying to figure it out. Eventually pain ends.

    • Portia, I’m very sorry about the passing of your father. As you say, this eternal no contact is in some ways easier, but he was still a wire monkey dad. There were many things you needed from a parent that he couldn’t give. That’s a tragedy for his life. My first therapist said that death of a wire monkey parent is sometimes even harder on abused kids because death ends any chance that the parent will express love or remorse or…anything.

      Your ability to transcend your childhood is its own miracle. Please treat yourself gently now and remember what a good job you’ve done at re-parenting yourself. As you say, time will settle all of these details but because of who you’ve become, you will continue to learn as the time passes. The big miracle for me was indeed the cherry-picking. I never forget the abuse, but not I can celebrate those small things my mother did that that made her a better parent than her own mother, the original wire monkey. Big hugs to you from a fellow survivor.

      • Yes, my Dad’s parents were made of barbed wire, too. I often tried to find forgiveness for him because of that, but what bothered me was his ability to change other important things in his life, but not the interpersonal values. I am a strong mother, but I believe both my sons would say that I love them fiercely and thoroughly, and there is no doubt that I express my love and pride in them frequently. I never felt my dad approved of anything I did, and he never expressed any pride in my accomplishments. None of his five children felt that he ever approved. I believe, as he aged, he became possessed by the nature of his own mother, and he never escaped. His presence is gone now, and hopefully time will soften the edges, and the good things we remember will become more prominent.

        At least all 5 of us were able to see the abuse, and all refuse to take it to the next generation. I am the only one with children.

        Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. Your compassion and wisdom is a healing force.

      • So very sorry for the loss of your father. Mine has no regrets, still. And the road goes on. Take care of you, wise words. Thank you for your wisdom.

    • Condolences to you, Portia, for all of it. I wish you peace.

      I have to say, that chumps like you and LovedAJackass make me feel so much more hopeful about humanity. You came out of adverse FOOs to become thoughtful, kindly people. While of course I’m sure you could have done without the chumpdom in your adult lives, you seem to have learned many important lessons from that experience and are here to lend your hard-won wisdom to newbie chumps.

      You provide a refreshing contrast to my STBX, who also was raised by barbed-wire parents (except it was both of them). As you suggested, LaJ, my STBX was absolutely devastated when her malignant narc mother died in 2018. That was the rupture that allowed STBX to justify having a second affair, though now I realize that STBX always was a fuckwit, struggling to contain her true nature until she just couldn’t anymore. But past doesn’t have to be prologue. Even when we have been dealt shitty hands in life, we can still make choices and work to heal ourselves, as you both have done so mightily.

      • Thank you all for your kind words. Seek peace thru as much no contact as possible, and strong boundaries when needed. I believe those two things saved me. I had to have a clear head, and I had to have rest from the battle, and I had to develop skills to protect me in battles I could not avoid. All the strength came from the redeeming peace of no contact.

        • Hugs Portia. I too know what it was to have barbed wire parents. When the sperm donor died 6 years ago the only thing I felt was relief that his evil could no longer influence any part of my life. Till then there was always a free floating background fear that he would find some way to screw me over yet again. When he died, I was finally, completely safe and free and that was after 5 years of NC!

        • Portia, I am sorry for your loss of what might have been. Your second sentence above is inspiring me to stick to No Contact and firm boundaries with my own Barbwire Monkey Mother. I am deeply sorry and appreciate your strength in sharing your loss.

  • I can’t stop laughing at this fool.

    The time to fix the relationships was before you started cheating within your marriage and since then when your ex-wife gives you yet another chance to screw her over emotionally, physically and financially. So glad your EX-wife has decided to kick you to the curb and doesn’t want anything to do with you.

    First things first. Go piss up a rope. THEN go fuck off and leave her alone. She never wants to see your lying face again.

  • I’m just mind-blown. Because cheater knows she reads this website, he used CN for triangulation??!!

    He must be making her life hell in all ways possible. It makes me wonder, narc abuse is life long, atleast the after effects and recovery.

  • Now that we’ve all had fun trashing this loser, here’s the important part;

    Dear the ex Mrs Mike,
    I take it his using friends and family to get past your defenses has not worked, so this is his desperate and moronic attempt to use CL to get to you. He knows you come here, so please change your user ID so he can no longer follow your posts. Change your story just enough that he won’t be able to recognize it. For example, he cheated on and off for 30 years, so you change that to X number of years. Change the date of your divorce, the number of children you have, where he met his many fuckbuddies, and don’t give specific details of his cheating. Don’t use his name or any rude names you have for him that he knows about. You can do all that and still get your feelings across to CN. He is gathering intel here to be able to manipulate you with. This guy is depraved and intends to harass you indefinitely because that’s what abusers do. They hate giving up control. So don’t give him the opportunity. Stay strictly NC and do not waver no matter what he does. You can only heal if you accept that he will never change and act accordingly. I know there are private chump groups to talk without his dumb ass around to listen in. I won’t say where they are because the stalking SOB would go there, so search the archives for references to them.
    Much love to you.

  • Hey Mike, I’ve got plenty of “advice or recommendations” for you. Unfortunately they all seem to involve you giving the OW a rest for awhile in order to perform an anatomically impossible act on yourself or taking a long walk off a short pier.

  • He invaded her CN safe space and tries to coax her ally to go against her in favour of him using the proverbial sob story.
    Yea. He’s definitely a waste of time. Glad his wife seems it.

  • So here he is (on CL) stepping over the boundary into his ex’s arena and trying to turn her safe place into his place.

    I’m 100% certain he’s stepping over the boundary and engaging the children to side against their mother.

  • Michael
    Your have some nerve (balls) writing in on this site. Your a losing, narcissistic piece of shit! Serial cheater your entire marriage? You don’t deserve that wonderful woman and children.
    My advice to you is go Fuck yourself!! You deserve nothing.

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