Dear Chump Lady,
My identical twin sister recently confessed to me that she has been cheating on her husband. We were out with two other girlfriends and talking about relationships (one of our girlfriends just divorced a cheater and we were celebrating her freedom from that douche canoe) and my sister said, “My husband is the love of my life, but he isn’t the passion of my life.”
When I heard that, I thought what kind of bullshit statement is that? But I’m thinking, whatever, we are drinking and having girl talk. She was explaining how she felt physically neglected and unfulfilled in the bedroom.
Her husband is on anti-anxiety medicine and it has lowered his libido, so he is not as interested in sex as her. Also when they do have sex she doesn’t get an orgasm. She is very resentful of him because he isn’t a better lover and said she has tried to talk to him, but he hasn’t gotten better in the bedroom. She also doesn’t like he is too “vanilla” because apparantly she is some freaky sex goddess that any other man wish their wife could be.
She says she has accepted she will never have an orgasm when she is with him and will only have sex with him when he wants because she is so awesome that she is still willing to do her wifely duties no matter how unenjoyable that task is for her.
She said she started talking to men online. After a particularly unfulfilling lovemaking session her husband said something like “you enjoyed it right” and that was the last straw for her. What an abusive asshole, ami right? She was mad it wasn’t obvious to him she didnt get off from it. So that was what made her decide to contact the 21-year-old that wanted to sex her up. So she has seen that guy a few times. She also sees a guy from down south when he comes up once month to our city for work. And she sometimes sees this rich man at his house when his wife goes away for work. And there is an old dude she will meet that can’t always get it up but he loves giving oral and poor thing his wife of over three decades doesn’t like that. My twin sister is more enlightened than her, so of course she will let him do it to her. So that’s four different men….so far. There would be a fifth, but he lives in Scotland so I’m sure it’s harder to come up with an excuse to leave the continent. I don’t know how she finds the time.
I am very disappointed in my twin. I love her and she is my best friend. Nobody is perfect, but my brother-in-law treats her with respect and I believe he is dedicated and faithful to her. Even she says he is good to her and if he wasn’t such a dud in the bedroom she wouldn’t be cheating on him. She talks as if he drove her to it, but this isn’t the first time she has cheated. She cheated on her first boyfriend and I know she cheated on another one. Unfortunately, I think she will always find a reason to be unfaithful.
I tried having a come to Jesus with her. I was firm and blunt when explaining all the ways this is messed up. I don’t think she really cares. She texted me the next day telling me the old dude paid for her mani and pedi. She said “Does that make me a sugar baby? lol”. I called her up and told her end it, don’t keep doing this until her husband finds out, this will crush him.
My husband thinks what she is doing is awful and it will be hard to face the brother-in-law at family gatherings, but he says don’t get involved. Not my marriage. My sister says she loves him, but can you really love someone you would betray in this way? Luckily, they have no children. They have struggled with infertility. They have gone through two failed IVF attempts. From the timeline she has given me she started talking to men when she was going through the last treatment.
Should I just let this go? Am I letting myself get too involved? I don’t want to ruin my relationship with my sister, even though she sucks for being a cheater, I still love her. But what she is doing to her husband is unconsionable.
What should be more important to me… my relationship with my identical twin sister or telling my brother in law he is a chump?
Sincerely,
Not a Cheating Twin
Dear Not a Cheating Twin,
Wrong question. This is not a contest between fealty to your sister or to your brother-in-law — it’s a question about your relationship with yourself. Who are you? What are YOUR values?
Your piece-of-shit sister has made you party to her abuse of your BIL. Sorry, it is VERY much your business. When she opened her mouth about her “freaky sex goddess” escapades, she enlisted you in her conspiracy.
She ASSUMED, based on kinship and shared history, your collusion and continued silence. Fuck your feelings, fuck your values, and fuck your awkward family dinners. She has unilaterally decided to make you her accomplice. And you can either accept that poison chalice, or you can refuse it.
You wrote to me — so you know I’m going to tell you to refuse it. I am NOT the person who is going to give you an excuse to keep a chump in the dark.
I tried having a come to Jesus with her. I was firm and blunt when explaining all the ways this is messed up. I don’t think she really cares.
Oh really? Then she won’t mind you telling your brother-in-law what up then, will she? It’s no big deal!
Her husband is on anti-anxiety medicine
Maybe because your sister cheats on him, gaslights him, and tells him he’s a lousy lay? I can’t imagine how that might give a person anxiety.
She is very resentful of him because he isn’t a better lover and said she has tried to talk to him, but he hasn’t gotten better in the bedroom. She also doesn’t like he is too “vanilla”…
Vanilla is not a crime. (Assuming this is even true. Chumps often ask for chocolate mint chip only to find that cheaters are dishing out the ice cream elsewhere.) Your BIL’s bedroom “failings” are not proportionate to the punishment: STD risk, psychological abuse, the sunk costs of trying to start a family with a fraud.
If your sister wants to work out her sexual dissatisfaction, there are ethical ways to go about it, including direct conversations, therapists, instructional youtube videos, and battery-operated appliances. Failing that, divorce lawyers.
Your BIL cannot be a smorgasbord of dick.
But this really isn’t about your BIL, it’s about your sister’s need for deceit. That’s the turn on — the power imbalance and her imagined superiority. She’s better in bed than her husband. She’s better than Oral Man’s wife. She’s deserving of cheating on her spouse, unlike the chump girlfriend whose divorce you were celebrating. (Can you imagine how awful that conversation was for HER?) Oh, and she’s better than you. More sophisticated. More sexually adventuresome. Less judgy.
And you’re all supposed to listen to this garbage and do what? Celebrate her?
she sometimes sees this rich man at his house when his wife goes away for work
Wow. What a member of the universal sisterhood. What a trailblazer. That woman goes to work (Who’s rich? He’s rich?) so your sister can fuck her husband. You all are supposed to do what? Emulate her lifestyle? Admire this shit?
I am very disappointed in my twin… Nobody is perfect.
I’m very disappointed there isn’t a new season of Derby Girls. I am DISGUSTED by your sister. Horrified, alarmed, appalled… And “perfect” isn’t the standard. Your sister lacks basic human decency.
You’ve only got mild disapproval? This calls for four-alarm WTF.
Luckily, they have no children. They have struggled with infertility. They have gone through two failed IVF atempts. From the timeline she has given me she started talking to men when she was going through the last treatment.
Do NOT let your BIL waste his one precious life trying to start a family with this cheating freak. Tell him before he’s more deeply invested, and has to paternity test his future offspring. He has spent untold thousands of dollars and immeasurable heartache trying to have children with a serial cheater. Do you think there is a BETTER time to tell him?
I don’t want to ruin my relationship with my sister
Okay. You can continue your relationship of complete phoniness and conspiracy with her abuse. How’s that sit with you?
All the relationship ruining falls squarely on her. She ruined her relationship with her husband by fucking around on him. She ruined her relationship with you by pressing you into a secret and creating a burden you shouldn’t have to bear. The asshole here is your sister.
Tell your BIL he’s a chump today. Your sister complains? Tell her you did it for her orgasms.
Free her from vanilla! Bring on the mani pedis!
Oh, you weren’t supposed to make a unilateral decision about her life?
lol
Not a cheating Twin, you are complicit with your twin’s abuse. You are participating in that abuse by not telling your brother-in-law. You are everyone who knew and didn’t tell the chump. Your sister is a cheater. I don’t care why she is cheating. I care that you are sitting on knowledge that could free a chump from abuse. Tell him today. Tell him to get a STI panel. Tell your sister she is a twisted and sick. She needs help.
Also a reminder TODAY at 6 pm ET is my Reddit AMA (Ask Me Anything). Details here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Infidelity/comments/r61yyy/mark_the_date_tracy_schorn_better_known_as_chump/?context=3
NACT’s sister is a monster; both for doing what she is doing and for making NACT a part of it.
I can’t see any other way this will end. That marriage is destroyed and that family is destroyed as well. It’s all over on several fronts.
You are right. There is no hope for thier marriage. Even if she is stops doing the cheating and tells him about it(she wont) I dont think anyone can come back from such betrayal. Its done.
I don’t even think that your immediate family will survive this intact. But I freely admit to being a pessimist when it comes to these sorts of things now.
Nothing will ever be the same again. Cheaters tend to think that it’s not that big a deal (on the spectrum of “I’m just having a little fun” to “I found my soulmate and we’ll all adjust to the new situation–no biggie”) but what they have effectively done is throw a live grenade into a room of all the people that they are close to… including their own immediate families who can now never look at them the same way again. It’s all just… absolute, pure destruction.
Affairs destroy marriages but they also destroy families. If your sister truly cared for you she would have never told you.
I couldn’t agree more. ????????
The grenade analogy is an apt one. Abusers don’t consider how many lives that bomb is going to fracture.
NACT, I have twins, they’re 13. So I know that twin bond is unlike any other, and my heart hurts for you.
Remember that cheating is abuse. If your sister was slipping a small amount of poison in his dinner, you’d shut that shit down, right?
Now ask your average chump if they’d choose food poisoning over mindfuckery. (I’ve got my hand up.)
I love this analogy.
Actually my serial cheating spouse told his entire family about his YEARS of douche baggery while I was present with them.
The outcome of that was that ALL of his family, including his mom, were now fully aware of the magnitude of his whorenado activities. Sure there was shock and dismay from the audience, BUT they circled around him even tighter. Even his mom, a 2 time chump.
Tell tell tell on your serial-cheating sister and circle the chump, even if you are not blood related. The blindsided chump needs people who care to help get through the nightmare.
It floored me for a while that the sibs and the mom never never asked me how I was doing after discovering decades of cheating. The same people who lived through the same stuff with their own spouses and parents. I was not expecting them to disown a family member, but to have some compassion for the napalming of family by their own sibling & son.
Whorenado… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Made my day. Hugs to you.
Yep, my fw lied to the community, folks were swayed by his politics because he was thought of as a decent family guy etc. He talked his own mother into moving into one of our rentals. She sold out everything, and this was only two years before he dropped the bomb. Or more to the point the bomb was dropped on him by a likely pissed of co worker.
Her life was turned upside down just as mine and my son were; jut because he couldn’t keep his pants zipped.
We had to rebuild our lives, but hey he had crazy ass orgasms with the town whore.
The ex’s family told his family before I knew he was leaving me. They knew by the time we attended a grisly weekend house party for his mother’s birthday. He spent the party in deep conversation, alcohol fuelled, with his niece (I thought they were playing around with each other during the weekend and I still do think that). I was treated so appallingly that I’m still traumatised by the event, even after months of intensive therapy. It was the most horrible kind of playground bullying. I had no idea what was going on or why (my father was also in hospital with the illness that led to his death 2 weeks later and the event was over Father’s Day). My vulnerability right then was known to all. His family did not care about me. They put on a show for 26 years. Not one of them reached out to me after he left or when they found out about his affair with exgfOW. When my father died 6 weeks before he dumped me, not one of them even sent me a text personally. I tried to reach out to them 8 months later and received an unpleasant letter from his father blaming me for not sending them a Christmas card. It was unbelievable. Their behaviour was sociopathic.
NACT, if you can reach out to and support your BIL, it could make all the difference to his survival. If just one member of the ex’s family had been honest to me and then kind, it would have helped my recovery time to reduce and I would have been left with less trauma. The ex’s family left me feeling like the most worthless creature that had ever walked the planet. May they rot in hell for that. Please don’t be like them.
The ex told his family!
Betrayal is one thing – lying is the other. In order for her to cheat like she does she has to lie. You are now a liar too if you don’t talk to your brother-in-law because you still interact with him. Once this comes out, and it will, your brother-in-law will be devastated and will try to figure out when his wife was ever where she said she’d be, who she said she was with, what she was doing when she was alone, all while he was trusting her with all of his heart. He will spend his time replaying every moment with her wondering if any of it was real. Or if she was just pretending. If you don’t tell him you will regret your decision for the rest of your life because when he finds out he will survey the landscape and realize he was abandoned not just by his wife but also by everyone close to her who he thinks is close to him. That is a lonely place to be.
“He will spend his time replaying every moment with her wondering if any of it was real.” ….
????THIS!!!
I. KNOW. THIS. CARNAGE.
The PSYCHOMINDfuck gift that keeps on giving. I just wrote the whole thing OFF because it is only KNOWABLE to one person and one Higher Power (or lower demon)
All that is required for Evil to triumph,…
is for Good WO(men) to Do Nothing
There’s a song verse in The Steel Woods’ song THE SECRET that goes…
She said, “Satan is a woman.”
“It’s Not the snake!”
“It was Me!!”
“That sent that man to Hell, crawling on his knees….”
Sums up my post discovery feelings. Who knew about her adultery and didn’t tell me!!?
Righteous anger seems justified.
Yet I yield. Vengance is Mine sayeth The Lord, I shall repay (aka Karma)
Not that it gives cheating twin a pass, regardless, but she shouldn’t have waited until AFTER she got married to decide that her man was “lousy in bed and vanilla”. She doesn’t sound like a wait-for-the-honeymoon type of bride, so I’m assuming that she had ample time to test the wares and walk away. And notice that even when cheating, one AP isn’t enough for this self-centered B*tch…she needs five! Your sister is hopeless, but you can still do the right thing. Tell the chump now. And do not sugarcoat it.
Also, this Chump has been managed enough. Stop managing, just grab your husband and go over to tell your BIL asap, when your sister isn’t there. Tell him all that you know. Your sister certainly won’t tell him the truth. I’d also advise him to read chump lady book, got to CL website, keep quiet, get an attorney, and protect his finances. At the very least, tell him (with all the details) anonymously. But tell him immediately, before he gets an STD, fleeced ($), or she becomes pregnant.
As someone who’s spent the last ten years NC with a personality disordered family member who managed, through vicious triangulation, to cut me and my children out of the extended family and then pillage the family estate (who also chased married/attached men in her day, by the by), I might suggest protecting oneself and dropping the dime anonymously. My family member initially went into vengeful scorched earth mode because I dared to confront them with the truth about something really unfair they’d done to another family member who had been a child at the time. Now my kids are paying for my “forthrightness.” It wasn’t worth it, though I did end up closer to the family member who’d been victimized.
I now have a more nuanced relationship with the concept of forthrightness, especially after anonymous whistleblowers saved my sanity when they warned me I was being chumped. I was emailed by a pair of them, a young couple, actually. They understood the issue of credibility and sent surrepticiously-taken photo evidence of FW and AP in a bar and then walking into AP’s condo next door when FW said he was “working late.”
It was all well thought out and, in the long run, an act of kindness and generosity. It was quite obvious this wasn’t coming from the AP (always a risk with anon reporting) when the couple warned that the AP was aparently trying to get accidentally-on-purpose pregnant. My kids not having a fetal alcohol syndrome afflicted half sib is a good outcome, as is getting free of a cheater.
The guy whistleblower had worked with FW and the AP when the affair started and his girlfriend (later fiance– whistleblowing together affirmed their shared values–awww), Ms. Whistleblower, had worked with the AP and noted that the AP was not at all discrete around the office– especially when she drank– about her stealthy plans to land Mr. Married Dad Moneybags.
I completely understood the couple’s desire to remain anonymous because people get fired or run down in parking lots for less. I also understood that the two “Deep Throats” felt toxically burdened with dirty secrets in which people were getting hurt and put at risk. Then Mr. Whistleblower, who apparently comes from serious family money and had been the AP’s first target (until he lied and told her he owed a mountain of student loans, at which point he said she went “poof” lol) could immediately tell– as those with real money can–that my FW was faking deep pockets to appease a hustler. He also figured out from Ms. Whistleblower’s reports of the AP’s bragging about bistro dinners and clubs and five star hotels that FW was drunkenly running his family into debt which Mr. and Miss Whistleblower considered categorical domestic ab.use. They also mentioned the risk of STDs because the AP had a rep as the office doorknob. They said they could not remain silent. Thank God for that.
The couple got a burner phone and contacted me one last time, probably a bit worried I might be suicidal and that they might have unleashed disaster. I reassured them by laughing about the AP’s hysterical shrieking tantrum when the affair was exposed and she found herself summarily dumped and at risk of being dragged into court. It serms FW had been using his married status to avoid committing and when I kicked him out, he beoke off the affair in a day. We all laughed at the AP’s howling that she was not “that woman.” I got the feeling they didn’t like the AP much which sort of relieved me of knee jerkedly hating the AP a bit.
The couple restrained themselves from overly bashing FW, probably because he’ss still a bread earner for kids, but the couple obviously had lost any professional respect they’d once had for him. That helped too. I wasn’t the only one who sensed he’d gone to hell in a handbasket in a short time. And young as he was, Mr. Whistleblower brilliantly pointed out that maybe it was a backhanded compliment that FW didn’t see me as the fitting companion for a trip to hell, i.e., that I don’t belong in hell. Nice thought.
Shared trauma is easier to recover from. Just knowing people care and know right from wrong, even if from afar, balms the wounds a bit.
Oops, typos.
Brilliant tale, well told! I throughly enjoyed reading every word! x
How long have they been married? Do you suspect or wonder if the husband knows? I don’t know how she has time for all of her cheating. I don’t know why on earth she would try to get pregnant. Why doesn’t she leave him? Think about it. What kind of life would that child have ?She is a serial cheater and she is playing a dangerous game. What are you going to do?
This hits really close to home. My former sister-in-law was the sister I never had…and her wife, a true friend as well. They were with me through my tears of confusion as to what on earth had happened to my wife and the hints that she might be having an affair. Then I learn years later that they along with a whole host of others, knew about the cheating or at least a hell of a lot more than I did. To further the pain, while they said they didn’t like it, they accepted it and eventually accepted her co-cheater as my replacement, my sister’s wife even posting on Facebook how much she was humbled by his kindness.
It sucked and what makes it worse is that I have kids, three to be exact and to watch people I once loved witness their suffering and still make a choice to stand with cheaters over their own nephews and niece really bites.
You can’t have it both ways my friend. It is about the relationship with yourself. Don’t hide this from your brother-in-law. He deserves the truth, as painful as it is. The truth will set you free.
Your story is similar to mine. My ex SIL knew about my serial cheating ex’s affairs. At one point, when I was married to the ex, he was acting like a completely different person and I thought he was depressed. I went to my SIL crying and concerned about him. Turns out he was having an affair and his sister knew about it. ….I found this out 5 years later. To this day, my ex SIL doesn’t think there was anything wrong keeping her brothers affairs a secret. They truly are garbage people.
NACT — what you’re describing is something my ex verbalized ad nauseum once the discard was complete and she went into ‘this is all about me and my sexual awesomeness’ overdrive: the superpower of compartmentalization.
In a cheater’s world, it’s the notion that emotional attachments and the actions that result from them can be kept into separate lead-lined boxes, one never impacting or effecting the other, and that the cheater can simply leverage each one as needed then put away until it’s needed again.
It’s incredibly useful and necessary as a life skill (e.g., don’t bring troubles from work into the home, and vice-versa) but, like anything, can be exploited and abused by an entitled mindset.
Your sister believes that everyone and everything in her life (yourself included) is a tool or instrument that is in some way useful in convincing herself of her awesomeness. She rejects the idea that one thing can or should have anything to do with the other, because to do so would mean admitting that she’s a manipulator, and manipulators are not ‘awesome.’
????????????????
The only reason this is not a four-alarm fire for NACT is that she’s not a chump, and the general public has not been educated to think of infidelity as emotional abuse.
It is, NACT. Your sister is abusing her husband. Would you stay quiet if the abuse were physical? If you knew she were poisoning him behind his back?
I have never once felt rested for almost 20 years now, and have been on/off of anti-anxiety and antidepressant medications for that entire time. I used to be skeptical that there is a limbic system, or second brain, whatever you want to call it. But now I know for certain that it exists, because I can feel it, and I can feel the wounds sustained by living with a disordered cheater for 25 years.
Mind you, my STBX’s emotional abuse was subtle (except when it wasn’t; I had two D-Days 14 years apart). So I didn’t notice how much sicker I was getting over time. It was like the light was gradually dimming.
That dimming is what your BIL is experiencing, NACT. What he doesn’t know is absolutely hurting him. Your twin has the boundaries of a gnat. It’s time for you to exercise your much more mature ones!
“I have never once felt rested for almost 20 years now, and have been on/off of anti-anxiety and antidepressant medications for that entire time.”
I feel this. I’m (approximately)14 years away from D-Day #1 and 9 or 10 years away from D-Day #2 and I still am affected. I’ve been off antidepressants for awhile but I feel nauseous and anxious whenever FW is physically around. So, I really bristle when folks come at infidelity with a “aren’t you over that little ol’ thing that happened yet?” mindset.
I will move on. I will become more awesome. But I will always be traumatized by what happened; I will never be the same.
That “little ‘ol thing…” has manifested as serious and aggressive stage III carcinoma of the vagina (HPV-initiated) and having a year of painful and disfiguring surgeries, radiation seeds, chemotherapy and immune treatments for my dear friend. Her life may be ending and is certainly forever altered. This is the second friend in her early 60s with this diagnosis.
cheating is physical abuse- 100%
This is shockingly sad. I wish more people understood that cheating is as romantic and sophisticated as decaying flesh and mental illness.
It wasn’t until it happened to me that I understood the level of destruction and trauma cheating renders. This isn’t because I was especially naive or heartless. It’s because the cultural narrative about infidelity is told from the cheater’s point of view.
It reminds me of war propaganda. It isn’t until soldiers lose their limbs and their minds that people can see the truth. Even then, so many still believe the lie.
I’m so sorry @Motherchumper99. I’m going through the same thing, but in my 40s. I’m so sick of hearing that it’s an innocuous STD that everyone has/will get/clears on its own. HPV and its outcomes are real. The costs are real.
I will NEVER forgive the cheater to which I was married, NOR the people that knew. If one wants the sexual buffet, that’s totally cool, but be honest about it and let the only other person it matters to decide their own participation (or lack of).
I understand fourleaf. I’m only 2.5 years out but still traumatized as hell. I often get freaked out about how long it’s taking. I’ve just met a new man and my ex moved cities but I still feel daily trauma. It’s so hard. My psychologist said it’s really hard to heal from gaslighting. Given I had 2 decades of it, it’s gonna take awhile. Hugs
I agree. We are strong, but the scars of infidelity are indelible.
LezChump: Spot on NACT is not a chump and therefore does not see things as a chump would. However, CL and CN have enlightened her today about her responsibility. NACT should let BIL know for many reasons–not wasting his life and not breeding with this wife are the first two I think of.
FYI, he’s on anti anxiety meds because he’s married to a sociopath. Don’t for a second think he can’t feel a “disturbance in the force”. Multiple cheating=personality disorder.
This⬆️⬆️
I think your twin gets off by telling you about it and thinking you wont say anything negative about her because you love her. She is pushing your boundries like narcissists do. At the very least, tell her you will not listen to another word of it starting right now. Tell her she uses people and to get divorced immediately. She is sick.
Thank you for your reply. I knew you would tell me to tell him. I needed someone give me the harsh reality. Ive known about this for less than a week and I have fet sick over it ever since. When she first told me about it I was shocked. Not so much that she cheated, but its so extreme what she is doing. I finally convinced my husband that I should tell my brother in law because he was against me getting involved. I told him I am involved. He suggested to try to do it anonymously so it wouldn’t get back to me. I told him I don’t want to do it that way. So now I have to figure out a way to get together with my brother in law when my sister isnt around at the same time.
I think im going to text him asking if I can come by to drop something off. I dont want to let my sister know im stopping by, or is there a better way to do it?
Sorry for any typos, im writing from my phone and it was giving me a hard time.
NACT,
Im proud of you. This must be so hard for you…….it’s the right thing to tell him. Their marriage is over, even if it takes BIL a while to see that fact after he learns the truth.
I’m trying to imagine how it would have felt had one of the people who knew told me, instead of finding out myself…..definitely in person if you can. Don’t wait too long, because if she gets pregnant during one of her adventures, it’s going to be so much harder on BIL. He may fall apart, or get mad (at her or at you). Whatever he does in that moment (and even the years after) doesn’t take away the fact that he needs to know the truth before a child comes into the world of chaos and deceit she is creating.
Be prepared for any kind of response, but you are still doing the right thing. D day is excruciating for the chump. So much more than I imagined before it happened to me. 5 years out and I still get sad (when we get our Christmas tree and struggle to get it into the stand, watching my kids struggle with their own abandonment issues, when I see ordinary middle aged couples doing ordinary things together happily). After all is said and done, he deserves a path out from the anxiety of living in a house of cards. Because despite my sadness, I’m not anxious anymore. Being devalued, even if they forget to tell you, is torture in its own right.
Anyways, tell him in person. You don’t have to be his comforter. Tell him to find a friend to talk to if it helps (your friend who has been chumped?), send him to this website. Chump lady is the salve that let’s healing start…..
Gettingthereslowly – Your feelings mirror mine. It was four years ago on Christmas that he left. Neither I nor my kids will ever be the same. I used to get so excited for the holidays – decorating, planning, and cooking like crazy. I dread it now, and I’m glad my kids are older so I don’t feel obligated to create that magic anymore. His selfishness stripped me of my joy, scarred my children, and left a heavy sadness where family memories should be.
NACT – Telling your BIL can save him from a life of sorrow. The longer he invests in your sister, the more he loses his own life. If children enter this nightmare, expect them to be seriously damaged. And trust me when I tell you that witnessing their pain is pure hell. The only one left standing if you don’t tell will be the one who deserves it the least.
I’m so sorry you have been put in this position, NATC. You are doing the right thing. I found out from a friend that had received a text from It that was meant for one of his girlfriends. When my friend received it, she hesitated in telling me. When she showed my best friend, he immediately called me. In the three weeks between the text and me finding out, I had closed on a house in a new (community property) state. It made the divorce much more complicated with regard to residency, etc. If I had known, I would have backed out of the purchase. Please tell him as soon as possible since they are trying for a child, don’t let your poor BIL be tied to this monster for the rest of his life. And I am so sorry for you and your family and that your sister sucks so much.
Please do not do this anonymously. This was done to me and it was a mind fuck on top of a bigger mind fuck. She’ll juts deny it and then he’ll turn himself into knots. I’m still recovering from all of that. If you care about him at all, do it face to face, please.
invite him to your house – don’t go over there. do it on your turf and tell him he can spend the night if he needs some time to digest what you tell him. When I found out what happened with my wife all I wanted to do was leave the house. I did not want to breath the same air as her. Give him the truth and comfort. He is going to need it. Maybe even help him get a hotel room if he needs that space away from everyone. And don’t tell your sister he needs space because she will throw that crap back on you by saying she needs space too. What he needs is reassurance and show him this website so he does not feel isolated and alone
My 2 cents of experience is never expose a narc without them present. They will twist whatever truth bomb you dropped and it will confuse the chump even more. I once asked a group of male acquaintances what do you do when you catch a cheater red-handed so to speak.. ie in the act. They unanimously agreed the chump needs to confront right then and there. If you walk away and do it later… and *each and every single one* of those males said they would without a doubt gaslight the chump event tho the chump saw it with their own eyes. I hope that makes sense. I know that makes it harder for you but if you think about it you know it’s true. Sadly your sister has developed wicked good gaslighting and manipulation skills and clearly doesn’t have a problem using them. Do you really think that won’t be turned on you (and the BIL!) as she tries to maintain control in her marriage when/if the BIL confronts her? Just something to think about.
Text to drop off something sure, but I think what I would do is grab a friend of his who can support him (best if they’ve been a chump too, or a lawyer) and go to BIL’s work at about the time he’s getting off work, like meet him in the parking lot, tell him, and leave him in the care of his friend for a bit more processing. Surprising him means just less time for your sister could catch wind of the disclosure, which means he can go home that night and think about getting his ducks lined up, etc, and not necessarily tell her he knows yet.
I’d also offer to un-invite your sister to christmas dinner if he’d like to go. He’s got a ton to think about. Maybe offer another holiday time with your sister if you’d like to just talk and let her be angry and you take a stand and get it out in the open.
Honestly the best holidays I’ve had with family are the honest ones when we’re talking about real shit and aren’t “celebrating”. It’ll be okay.
He works from home. I didnt want to interrupt his work day. I was thinking it might be best to tell him at the end of the work week because even though he’ll still be distraught over this by Monday it might give him time to process and not immediately take all his time away from work. Or maybe it doesnt matter. Im mad at my sister that i have to figure out when is the best time to ruin someones life.
Not a Cheating Twin: I admire your integrity and your solid instincts. I’d also point out this much: the married men your sister is cheating with, have given an explanation that stinks to high heaven. ALL married men claim their cheating is all their wives’ fault, right up to the moment their wives are actually in the room going “oh really?”
You tell him what you know, and then politely extract yourself from the situation. “I’ve been given this information and was not consulted in advance about how comfortable I would be having to cover it up. I’m bad at lying. It’s infantilizing. So this is out in the open: my sister has told me she’s cheating on you. I’m sorry to tell you, but I’d be even sorrier if I didn’t and you found out by accident.” You don’t even need to dignify your sister’s rationalizations; you don’t even know whether she’s giving you the full truth — any more than she knows whether the guys she’s cheating with are giving HER the full truth about their wives.
NACT – When I was a supervisor of people, I remember there being a saying that you don’t fire somebody on a Friday because then they stew all weekend and many businesses and work contacts are closed so they can’t hit the ground running reaching out to their network for help and hope. They just sit there getting homicidal or suicidal with no help.
If you wait until Friday, he can’t wake up on Saturday and call a therapist or attorney. He needs those businesses to be open to take his call to hear him, give him options, an emotional plan, a way forward. If you wait until Friday, he will stew without professional help. Tell him sooner so he can get the help he needs.
That’s a good point about the day of the week, as far as reaching out to a therapist or lawyer the next day. NACT I now agree about the dropping something off when he’s home. It will affect his work day, so I’d lean toward the end of it, but we can never make a painful thing not painful and lunch hour also means he has time to process before seeing your sister maybe?
Good luck!
Plus the bank; he can make some necessary moves in person during the workweek.
And get the locks changed. lol
The life has already been ruined. You would just the messenger.
You have to figure out when to ruin his life ?! Nope, your monster of a twin ruined it.
You’re actually about to save his life. You have a chance to be a life saver. Grab that and throw it to him ASAP.
I know of chumps who were in the dark or stayed for years or until the bitter end. Health problems galore, slowly killing themselves with self-destructive coping mechanisms or outright suicide.
This! You are giving him the knowledge he needs to leave a cheater and gain a life. You are unlocking the prison cell he doesn’t even realize he’s in. And you are freeing yourself from the weight of this horrible secret. You will feel lighter once you have told him. Then, for your own mental health, you step away.
Think about it this way. She can continue to be a whore and home wrecker whether in her marriage or not. He cannot become something more, better his circumstances while he is with her.
Whenever you do it – provide proof (screenshots of the texts) and support so he can get his ducks in a row and talk to a lawyer without tipping her off.
She will inevitably say you are lying, so proof is vital.
If he can keep it together and leave her like a ghost in the night after securing all of his funds it will be better for everyone. It is not unheard of for male chumps on here to have the police called on them and accusations made against them that aren’t true.
ASAP — before he sleeps with her again.
He’s not giving informed consent to sex with a cheater (aka it’s rape). And God forbid he get her pregnant.
Your sister ruined his life. I don’t know how she thought this would turn out? You be sure you have proof . he might not want to believe you.
Hi, I’m late reading all this.
Probably you’ve already taken action.
But how about the ole’ “I’m gonna tell him if you don’t!” to your sister? Then she’s in the know that you’re not complicit with her actions, that you don’t agree with them, and that you want to do the right thing for yourself.
Then at least she has a chance to come clean and digs her own hole (even deeper) by not telling him, if she chooses that, and she can only blame herself (although she will most undoubtedly blame someone besides herself…)
Then you’re up front with everyone… maybe a time limit for telling him herself would help, too…
I urge you to not tell him alone. If you can, enlist the recently divorced chumped friend to accompany you or your husband. This could be emotionally ugly at minimum. Your BIL is going to be in shock ( if he hasn’t suspected something already) and you will benefit by having someone else to help with any fallout. I’m not suggesting or assuming he would be violent however depending on the degree or severity of his mental/psychosocial issues another set of senses on hand could be helpful. I’m truly sorry that you have been thrust into this shit-show, I am appalled that your sister is doing this seemingly without remorse or reservation. But think that your brother is in the lower portion of a sinking ship and no one has let him know that the ship is sinking. Good luck, I’m saying prayers for you your BIL and your wayward sister
Exactly ! He’s in a sinking ship and needs a life preserver. Give it to him, tell him what his wife is doing to him (???? in the back), direct him to this community and buy him a copy of Tracy’s book. Go to the archives here and print out the post about actions to take ASAP. DO NOT tip your hand to your abusive sister and give her a chance to gaslight your b.i.l. one more minute. Who knows what narrative she’ll spin ? Who cares ?
Good idea.
If not told he could end up with throat/tongue cancer from catching HPV from his ‘wife’ or hiv/stis
And I doubt you could bear to look at him without feeling guilty now that you know
He may say you are making it all up from spite. You will have to plan for any eventuality.
I would tell him to do some investigation of his own before he confronts your sister
Brava, NACT ???? my heart went through the floor when I read about IVF. Being chumped is hard enough. Chumped with little kids, and you can’t truly get away for decades.
I agree that if he has a friend or someone to bring along with you for support, bring them. And be prepared that he might react in a way that is completely uncharacteristic of what you would think. Maybe you can write the details down in a letter to bring with you. Tell him the high level, she told you she’s cheating, and say you’re happy to stay and talk, or you’ve written down what you know and will leave it for him. That way he can do with what he would like, when he would like.
It would be good for the friend to be able to get him out of the house also, so he can take what time he needs without worrying about your sister coming home.
This is tough stuff with your sister. You are ridiculously brave. Thank you for stepping up.
I’m glad you’re going to tell him. You’re doing the right thing. If you’re going to do it in person I think asking him if you can drop by is a good idea.
Sorry to say this being she’s your sister but… she’s a whore. Absolutely disgusting.
Many will disdain this label , but as the saying goes ” A rose by any other name , is still a rose.”
She’s not even a smart sex worker. For the price of a mani/pedi?
I wonder if twin is a sex addict.
Addict schmaddict. Definitely a liar and a cheater.
Exactly. I absolutely do *not* believe in sex ‘addiction’. What a load of bollocks. It’s a fucking *choice*.
In fact, any so-called ‘addiction’ is in fact a *choice*.
What she has done to you, putting you in this position of being her twin and the keeper of a key to immeasurable abuse and harm, is nothing short of cruel.
The very first thing is to ruthlessly shut down any further talk of these escapades. Ruthlessly. No more stories. No more new information. Clearly, harshly, immovably set that boundary right away, and make it clear that you’ll walk away, hang up, leave her wherever to find her own way home, etc. the second it starts. Then DO IT, without fail, every single time. Also refuse to share transportation with her. The whole nine yards. That boundary is an absolute must, no matter what else you do. She created this, so she has no right to be angry about it. So, if it makes her angry, too bad.
If you believe her deception and abuse are unfair, you absolutely must stop participating. If you don’t do at least that, you are being exactly like her. Deception is deception, and she is endangering lots of people, which means YOU are endangering lots of people.
Second, consider that if you can’t make yourself tell her husband, you have no right to be around him as long as you’re participating in his abuse and endangerment real-time. At a minimum, you must not be around him without telling him about the danger he is in, so the only reasonable choice is to refuse to be around him. She created this, so she has no right to be angry about it. So, if it makes her angry, too bad.
If she feels hurt by your boundaries, again, too bad. She wasn’t worried about how hurt you’d be when she forced you to be her accomplice in emotional crimes. So, you can’t allow her pain to push you into harming others. It’s only fair.
Many here might disagree with some of what I’ve said because they’ll agree with CL. Well, it so happens that I agree with CL, too — but I’m also realistic enough to realize that asking you to go against the desires of your sister — your twin sister — is asking a huge thing. I can explain all day why it isn’t a betrayal, but it would still feel like one to you, I think. Plus, I believe things like this sometimes go in stages, and if you start with serious boundaries, it will cause changes that will require your adaptability. She’ll be furious when you set boundaries. That’s going to be a huge deal all on its own, so your hands will be full with that for a while.
So, I’m offering some thoughts about where to start, not about where to land. Ultimately you will need to choose what’s right for you. In my opinion, the bottom line step 1 is to stop all condoning and direct participating. Then later you can move into dealing with your indirect (but still real) participation, after the first chips fall.
This argument you have with her is about way more than how she treats him, and I think you’re struggling with facing what you know is coming. You can do this. You must do this, for your own well being at least. Thank you for reaching out.
How realistic do you think it is to avoid her BIL at every social and family get together. And not be seen as the problem? And it’s going to beg the question WHY Twin isn’t coming. So, just rip off the bandaid already, IMO.
Like I said, I agree with you. That’s the best approach. I also know a few people who are twins and have described things to me about how things feel different to them, growing up with a same-age sibling, than anything I’ve ever felt. In the spirit of how we have one letter writer and loooooooads of readers, I answered beyond just this one person. But yes, you’re right, ultimately telling the BIL is the cleanest and most ethical choice.
(Also, I’m probably an edge case on your questions about family — because I’ve stopped going to gatherings with mine because they are so damned mean. Easy for me to avoid them, I’ve been doing it for years! ????)
I am in the same boat. My bro is cheating on SIL, and they have not been together for 2 years since they got married due to visa restrictions.
I discovered bro’s cheating the same week as I left home to deal with my own dd3 and divorce. I started out same way, by informing my family, his friends, but not SIL as she is my ex’s cousin. Enough time has been spent on a smear campaign on me by exFW for me to lose all credibility in their side of the family. SIL stopped contact with me while I went for therapy to deal with infidelity from father, FW and now brother. I am now isolated from both sides of the family.
In my case, none of the 7-8 people who I informed did anything about it, including my parents. I am no contact with my bro since years. He has now initiated a conversation with SIL on divorce as they cannot be together, but has hidden his adultery. My parents have warned me that if I speak the truth, I will be to blame for the fallout and my father’s heart disease. He is 74, and doc’s have said it’s a matter of time
Nevertheless, my stance is to release her from her pain as soon as I can. But my therapist who has been through this journey for the last 2 years, says that she won’t believe me and my brother will manipulate her very easily. In the meantime I have been trying to think of a ways to tell her anonymously, but brother is also a hacker and has known to commit various fraudulent activities and financial crimes. In the earlier days of my D-day, I did send her this site and other information on spotting cheaters. I agree with everyone here who highlighted that unless you are a chump, it’s not easy to tell. I really wish the others who know would tell, but no one cares enough.
Not easy to tell either way. But not easy to empathize with the pain of a chump not knowing.
Thank you for your advice. I do agree that i have to set boundaries. But like Chump Lady said its not realistic to not be around BIL. Im hosting Christmas dinner and they were suppose to be there. Its going to be wierd if uninvite my sister and her husband. And then I’ll have to come up with reasons why they’re not there. Either way I’m participating in her abuse, I will just be doing things that make me less uncomfortable.
This may not be a popular response but putting it out there anyway…please don’t scream at me!
If she told you and your girlfriends, do you think she has shared this others?
If so, I would consider telling your BIL anonymously. Not the bravest choice but perhaps won’t tear your entire family apart. I would hate to see NACT have her whole family collapse and blame her.
I remember reading about a person at a baseball game reading a wife’s texts to her AP from the seat behind. The person got a note to the husband anonymously telling him about his wife’s texts.
If the cheating twin is a talker, the possibility exists that co-workers know, people sitting near her in a restaurant overhears conversations and any number of different scenarios.
It is a terrible situation your sister put you in but families have all kinds of crap going on.
What I would caution you about is not giving her too much time before telling to hide money or get ahead of your BIL in the divorce arena. We all know too many stories of wiping out bank accounts once the cheater knows they may be outed
If you’re brave and kind enough to talk to your BIL, give him a copy of Tracy’s book and suggestions that he shut down all accounts ASAP and run credit checks. Along with the STD testing – poor guy.
There are LOTS of people who would gladly have a plain vanilla stand-up guy
Good luck with your decision. I’d like to know what you decide to do.
Indeed — see my reply to her above, and also I agree with your choice and applaud your strength and clarity. And it’s absolutely the kindest choice to tell him. Good for you!
Tell BIL immediately and cancel Christmas dinner.
I agree. NACT’s sister has thrown a grenade into the family room. It’s all over now. If not forever, then at least for this year. Cancel Christmas dinner.
I’d tell my BIL immediately also. Poor bloke, what a vile bitch your sister is.
I’d come with a copy of LACGAL, and emphasise I’m on *his* side, not your sociopath sister’s.
Also I’d invite your BIL for Xmas Dinner, and disinvite the sociopath. I don’t know obviously what your BIL’s social/family(his) situation is, but this poor man is going to need all the support and empathy he can get. Christmas. Shit.
Also I can understand how awful this is for you, also, and you have my sympathy, but as Tracy says, ultimately it comes down to your own integrity, character, and moral compass. ((hugs)) ????
Send this poor man here, as well. Xx
You do NOT have to “come up with reasons why they are not there”. You know and can share the reason… “My sister was cheating on her husband and it came out.” There is your reason right THERE.
Making excuses is more gaslighting . Cheating is abuse and needs to be in the sunlight to be disinfected.
Start shining that light.
Instead of telling your BIL directly I would do this:
I would tell my sister that I am not going to be complicit in her abuse. I would tell her that I am giving HER the chance to tell him first, but if she doesn’t in x number of days, you are going to tell him yourself. Give her the chance to do something right for once! Put this shit on her, but let her know it’s going to happen, one way or another!
Give her the chance to do something right for once ?! ????♀️ ????????
If she cared, she would not have treated her spouse like ???? to begin with. Oh brother.
Or tell the b.i.l. who his wife really is, then tell him “Now that I’ve told you, I’m going to inform my sister she has a week to come clean. Let’s see what she says and does. I bet she’ll try to weasel her way out of it by lying and crying.”
Doesn’t this just give cheating sister a heads up to clean out finances in advance? I’d rather she not tip off her Sister and give her an advantage. Cheating Sister clearly has no ethics, so it won’t be a stretch for her to do this. If anything, give the advantage to BIL. Let him know so he can line up his ducks and hit her with divorce papers unexpectedly if he chooses. (In fact, give him a list of 3 or 5 top divorce attorneys in your area, with contact info, so he can move quickly. I’d also include a bulleted list of things to do: 1) bank and bank & credit card statements, 2, lawyer, 3, doctor, 4, therapist, 5, phone records, etc. He will be in shock, no doubt, and this is practical help and next steps.
What a horrible position (for OP) to be in, and this is definitely a ‘grenade’ lobbed at the whole family. It will take awhile to recover from, but BIL needs to know, sooner rather than later. Be brave OP, do whatever you have to do to deliver this horrible, yet lifesaving info to your BILChump, like, today. I pray she (ho-sister) is infertile and doesn’t ‘pop up’ pregnant. THAT would be truly awful and complicating on so many levels. Yikes.
OP, you are brave and I wish you the very best in this horrible situation. If you don’t already, it might help you to find a therapist to chat with about this. Family dynamics are complicated and may help you with any anger directed at you (there will be!) and keep yourself focused on you and your husband’s well being while weathering this storm.
The only thing that would do is give this evil skank an opportunity to 1) Get in first, blame shift, gaslight even more. 2) Drain the accounts, steal.
*Bad* idea.
That’s not going to happen. There is no way sister is going to tell him.
Yes, I like this too, Phoenix. I just wrote the same above, but now I’m reading more responses…
Hmmmm. This story strains credulity. It reads like a pitch for a romance novel. The twin sister, the multiple guys (rich guy, old dude, guy from down south, Scottish guy). I find it hard to believe.
No one has amnesia, so maybe I’m wrong.
I wish it were a lie. There are people who are doing this stuff and unfortunately one of them is my sister.
I wish I could agree, Spinach@35. I lived this scenario, someone who claimed to be long-suffering and deserving of long-denied passion, who spun her liaisons (young stud with live-in bisexual girlfriend, ivy leaguer, world traveler, poet/writer) as her own version of sexual awakening and feminine self-empowerment. She was starring in a Lifetime movie playing in her own head.
My husband has always said my sister loves drama. He said she wants to live her life like they do on tv.
Or long suffering married man. Sole breadwinner to a family of 5. Married to a shrew who won’t let him get it on with her when he returns from his globe trotting trips to Support His Family!!! Horrible wife, too independent, just sees him as a paycheck !!! Hark! Across the bar is a willing, soulful female. One who actually HEARS him. SEES him. Alas!! If only they weren’t married to their horrible spouses. ALL of it was meant to be. True Love.
That’s what I learned. Shit. I left my career to support the fucker’s ascent across the globe. Had 4 kids. Raised them majority of the time and without family to lean on. Exhausted, tired and frustrated appliance. Worked harder at the relationship..found sitters, planned outings. Never crossed my mind to cheat because I was not UNDERSTOOD, as in a Lifetime romance movie.
Comes down to character and commitment to work for what you value. My relationship was not valued. I wasn’t valued. Kids were not valued. Lesson for me was communication is key and boundaries against stuff that doesn’t feel right.
My XH acted like this— he’s a sociopath and master con artist. I wish it was fiction. . .
@Spinach
Sorry if you can’t wrap your head around this level of narcissistic fuckery. Some of us have seen and experienced worse. Aspects of this story ring so true that it’s chilling (and triggering).
My own chump story is so off the charts that some people have found it difficult to believe, which carries with it another set of challenges. I find I mostly keep the entirety of my ex’s extramarital adventures to myself for this reason. Let’s just say I eventually became fully aware of why my ex often used the phrase “In for a penny, in for a pound”, and always with a little giggle.
I’ve always said that if I wrote my story as a novel, people would say it was far too outlandish even for a work of fiction. But it really happened. Every crazy detail. My attorney used to say that my stbx was scripting his own Lifetime Original Movie. Over the top drama is what these people thrive on.
We really can’t make this shit up, can we ? Truth is stranger than fiction.
Drama and chaos, all year long! It’s what they do.
Yikes!
I’m sorry I didn’t believe this story and that many of you suffer an additional slight because of skeptics like me. That’s terrible.
I get it now.
I think it is more a reflection of your personal integrity that you find it difficult to believe Spinach.
Freaks are out there freaking. That is why CL is here.
Truth is always stranger than fiction, definitely.
Agree. I can’t believe that my STBX had so many people involved in his cheating as well . I wish someone would have told me the truth. They bring people in their affair and others become involved some probably did not want to know. Many have dropped him but I have dropped all of them from my list of decent people because they should have said something once they knew.
My own son found out about it through the cheater using an old family account and told me immediately. He also went no contact with the asshat cheater from that moment. Cheaters seem to think everyone will keep their shit secret. I am just glad that my son held up his high standards and boundaries and doesn’t cut slack for any relation.
Bear in mind narcs *lie*, fantasise etc. The sociopath sister may ‘only’ (????) be having a single affair, and making up the rest of it for the ‘thrill’, but obviously irrespective of the lurid details, this poor man is being betrayed and massively disrespected. He needs to know.
Nobody believes my story either because it’s so “out there” and sounds like a “bad lifetime movie.” That’s why I lost everybody but three people in my life.
Cheaters and personality disordered people tend to bank on plausibility deniability. They’ll do weird shit so they can say “OMG, you actually believe that?! That’s so stupid and crazy. Clearly the person I’m abusing is just crazy. LOLOLOLOLOL”
So this story doesn’t surprise me even a little bit. Even if it’s fake, stuff like this happens all the time.
I’m sorry, KatiePig.
I can’t imagine how upsetting it must be that people don’t believe your story.
Bad Lifetime movies play out in real life. Ugh.
I absolutely believe it. This goes on with many people. Women cheat as well.
I would tell my sister that she had one week to tell him or I would tell him every sordid detail that she had told me. Like all cheaters, she thinks she is entitled and the rules of decency don’t apply to her. If you really want to help her, tough love her and let her experience the consequences of her actions. You are under no obligation to protect her. Would you protect her of murder charges is you knew she had done it?
I agree with this approach but would follow-up with BIL to be sure he got the same details from cheater twin that you did. He deserves to know.
Are you the dad of the twins in this story? If so, your opinion WEIGHS.
I agree with you.
She won’t do it though. Cheaters NEVER take responsibility— she’ll blameshifting and trickle truth and that will further harm BIL.
I’m for calling BIL, telling him all— every single detail. Direct him here for support.
Sister isn’t worthy of that title. Someone like this is no sister despite the shared DNA and womb, IMO.
Nothing to work with. Trust she sucks and always will. Grey rock with her.
I’d cancel Christmas this year for the extended family. The fraud is over- don’t perpetuate it further.
Yeah, you’re right motherchumper99. Retract my previous agreement.
And advise him that, under no circumstances is he to tell his wife about Chump Lady or any other support group he may choose to lean on. He will be in crisis mode and will need a safe place to turn to that the cheater *does not know about* in order to just figure out how to survive for a while.
????????Safe Space for Chumps.
CL is an arrow or two in your quiver as you trot (hopefully gallop) away from the cheater.
“She won’t do it though. Cheaters NEVER take responsibility— she’ll blameshifting and trickle truth and that will further harm BIL.”
Absolutely. He needs to hear it from someone with empathy and compassion ie his sister-in-law.
Plus by giving this evil bitch a time line like that, it gives her time to drain the bank accounts, and all of the rest of the nefarious shit we know these shit bags do.
????
Give a cheaters/con artists the same heads up they gave their victims.
NO NO NO, if you tell sister she has a week…..don’t you think she will strip the bank accounts? ugh.
Telling her you are going to tell is just opening the door for her to further abuse him.
I honestly don’t want her to even get a chance to talk to him again and spin her lies and blame. It’s clear she already blames her shitty behavior on his anxiety (probably caused by her).
So many of us have been in that web. Miserable because we are being abused, devalued and treated like an appliance, and then put down because we aren’t dropping our pants with joy every time they lazily saunter into the room.
I hope he ends up here. He’s already got an army of chumps rooting for him.
“Miserable because we are being abused, devalued and treated like an appliance, and then put down because we aren’t dropping our pants with joy every time they lazily saunter into the room.”
Nail on head.⬆️
I wish I could be on the “give your sister an ultimatum” side. I get it – I wouldn’t want to go behind my own sister’s back. However – how do you ever verify that sister has actually told BIL? It just gives OP’s sister fuel to gaslight both BIL and OP.
Silly me believed my STBX when he said he told his parents the whole truth about why we were getting divorced. Looking back on it, there was no chance AT ALL that he told his parents “I’ve been cheating for 15+ years with multiple women, some of them paid, the latest of whom I was house shopping with. Oh and by the way here’s the engagement ring I bought for her, do you like it?” He just told me he told them to manipulate me further. If I thought they knew the truth, I would never bring it up with them. OP’s sister will do the same to her.
I’m afraid giving EvilTwin a heads-up would lead to her giving a fake confession to BIL, then, wreckonciliation as she gaslights him, boldly lies to marriage counselors, and keeps right on cheating. People like this LOVE causing pain, and eat up the drama centered around them. They will never, ever take any high road, or even a footpath that might cause *slightly less* pain for their victims.
My ex’s family knew long before I did. These were people that I loved and trusted. With my kids. With their and my well-being. We were close (or so I thought). NACT, you don’t what to be like these people. Because they were/are awful people, just like my ex. I have a brother that I cannot imagine losing my relationship with. So based on that, it must be hard for you. But if he was like the person your twin is, I wouldn’t feel like I was losing much. And I couldn’t bear to keep a secret that I knew was harming others that I loved. Best of luck to you and your BIL.
NACT – Regardless of who tells your BIL (and he should be told immediately), you are likely to have a front seat to the dysfunctional, painful end to the marriage. Be clear about your boundaries.
I don’t think your sister deserves your support unless she also is willing to accept the consequences of her actions. All of them.
Your BIL may need to be directed to a therapist (who is not you). He may need physical help if a move occurs.
This is going to be a shitty year. Don’t make it worse by trying to fix anything.
This ????????????????????????????????
????????????
Right on.
And the consequences have to include inititating a speedy and fair divorce settlement, and leaving your BIL alone for the rest of his life so he can move on and heal.
Do you have other siblings or are you close to your parents? If so, you might want to give them a heads up that the s••t is going to hit the fan after you have the talk with your brother-in-law. You are going to need a lot of support when your sister goes ballistic.
Its just me and my sister. I am close to my parents. Before I wrote to chump lady I was going to tell them. It has been eating away at me and I needed to talk to someone for guidance. I think they would have given me good advice. But I decided against it. I didnt want to go to them because I didnt want them to have this burden. It seems everyone that is not apart of chump nation firmly believes do not get involved and dont worry about it because it isnt your marriage.
Those people don’t understand that Cheating is Abuse.
If your sister had come to you with stories of secretly beating up your BIL, or stealing money I’m sure everyone would say you must report the abuse.
This narrative of “it’s not your marriage” is coming from a place of blame on the cheated upon. It’s the “takes two to tango” train of thought. Everyone would want to know how f it was happening to them, but at that same time they believe it would NEVER happen to them because they believe they have control.
Dear twin sister with morals,
I want to commend you and trust you will do the right thing about your sister and her poor husband! I am sorry for your deep pain. I want to ask something else of you which is to find out who the other married men are your sister has been with and tell their wives, with as much proof as you can get. For instance, the wife with the ED husband/who doesn’t want oral maybe that’s enough personal detail to be believed. I suggest you do this digging BEFORE you tell your sister anything so she will give you information without guarding it, and also before the wretched husband tries to intervene. That nail salon will know who paid. I realize these are strangers, these women. I was one of those, and had many strangers know who did not tell me. This would have saved me many years of living a life that did not exist, and help me/my children avoid significant devastation. But not a single person came to me. You hit the nail on the head in pointing out a horrible thing in our society: the pressure to STAY QUIET about cheating! I hope Chump Lady will keep doing her thing and raise awareness on this tragic problem. Much cheating would be eliminated if people changed their attitudes about this. Every single person who tells you to stay out of it has never been in our situation. Thank goodness for them! Once you have, you change your tune unless you are the type who believes that cheating is never a reason for divorce perhaps and tries to sweep these things under the rug. I do personally think that a lot of the pressure to stay quiet is about concern for the blowback. Yes the cheater will not be happy with you. Is it possible when you reveal the truth the spouse won’t believe it? Sure, there is a chance they will bury their head in the sand and pretend it didn’t happen — yes but unlikely. These reasons in my opinion are self centered, with zero consideration for the victim. Would people say the same thing if a woman was being severely physically beaten by her husband? Would they watch this and not say a word because it’s their own business? That’s not my relationship… Don’t call the cops. Or don’t bother, the cops may not believe you. No they would not. Cheating is another form of very serious abuse, but one that is not taken as seriously by many who have not experienced it. I know women who have been beaten and cheated on, and I’ve heard from them cheating was as severe/awful for them. As Chump Lady said, this all boils down to who we are as individuals. What are our morals? Are we in life to win a popularity contest? I certainly am not, and if standing up for what is right and helping people who are victimized in life in different types of scenarios makes me disliked by some people, then so be it. I am actually so deeply loved by certain people in my life BECAUSE I will do what is right. And, being like this is the only way I love myself.
20 Years Wasted on a Liar,
I understand where you’re coming from, based on your personal experience, but time is of the essence for Not a Cheating Twin’s brother in law. No time to play detective on behalf of the duped wives Slutty Sis is screwing around with. And no reputable business is going to reveal the name of a man who paid for her personal grooming. Reminds of reading how rich cheating Manhattanites set up house accounts at Christian Louboutin. Upper East Side for their wives, downtown boutique for the mistresses. Then the day where the wires get crossed and all hell breaks loose.
“It seems everyone that is not apart of chump nation firmly believes do not get involved and dont worry about it because it isnt your marriage.”
So true. A couple who I thought were my friends, knew all about it long before I did. The wife had been chumped herself in her first marriage, but still felt ” it wasn’t her place to tell me”. The husband also told her not to get involved. Then as I later found out texted fuckwit revolting texts (is your dick wet) and invited fuckwit and the rat faced whore out for a meal. The wife insisted she didn’t know anything about that. Yeah, right. ????????
So sometimes even those who’ve been chumped themselves “pass by on the other side”.
I think when one knows of this abuse it’s a test of character and integrity – decent people do the right thing, even if it’s painful and/or embarrassing.
I wish just one person had told me. Because he pulled such a colossal scam on me and the whole community, I doubt anyone we were hanging out with knew. But, someone knew; because someone dropped a dime.
Unfortunately that is the thing with police officers they keep information close to their vest, until it becomes useful to THEM, then they spill.
He cheated on me for at least 1.5 years. I wish someone had told me too. Terrible to waste time thinking about their “depression”, “brain tumor” or “work issues” when it was just a cheater & howorker.
Yep, I got the “work pressure” spiel.
He turned on me right after his big promotion that I had worked by his side in the community and politics to help him get. He was done with me pronto after 21 years. Like night and day, or rather day then night.
He had me set up to hand everything we worked for over to the town whore. Didn’t work out for him, but it was his intention.
Worse part was all the while I was out there busting my ass for his benefit, he was screwing the whore, and they were planning my dismissal.
I can’t imagine a worse pain than someone you loved and trust not only betraying you intimately, but scheming with another woman to destroy you; while you go ignorantly about your life doing whatever the hell he needs done.
Every day that goes by and BIL does not know, more risk and more damage is inflicted. If he produces a child with her, you will bear witness to the pain in the child’s eyes when the family is torn apart and there are paternity tests and doubt about who his or her father really is. BIL could get an STD or lose more financially. If you don’t speak up, you are basically complicit in fraud. There is currently at least one victim. Would you be the flying monkey for sis if she beat someone senseless? If she stole someone’s car? She is doing moral wrong which is a crime in many states. You can sleep at night keeping her secret.
OMG. Tell him now. Don’t be on the wrong side of this.
I meant that to end with a question mark. “You can sleep at night keeping her secret?”
I couldn’t sleep knowing. BIL will find out one day. He may find out you knew, too. He will then think you are as rotten as your sister. And I wouldn’t blame him.
Your sister has a real issue with morals. Twin or no, distance yourself. I would tell him for you, if I could. Jeez. I have been through in vitro with a FW. He had a side piece he was hooking up with while I was hours away injecting myself to prepare for his royal highness to drive up and provide the sperm sample. Now I will see my son’s pain as we split. Had I known, I NEVER would have gone through it.
BIL has a chance to find someone else and have great kids without a mess of custody and whatnot. Time is of the essence. TELL HIM.
Have you noticed how this type of behavior, entitlement blows our chump minds. How we care about blowing up peoples lives. Meanwhile the cheater is glowing in being special, oblivious to anything but their own wants. They don’t care about their spouse being destroyed, but you do! How lopsided is that? Sing it loud and clear, she is cheating. Every time you get blow back, tell whoever, it’s on your twin not you.
EXACTLY.
While the VICTIMS all carefully, thoughtfully, mindfully debate the If How When Where Who What Why Effects Fallout Impact of TELLING…
…..the CHEATERS did not do not give a thought or a flying F about the long term generational permanent damage and harm caused by their DOING.
Thank you, HCard. Badly needed dose of perspective and sanity.
And the ultimate response to any cheater who is mad at you for telling is to remind them of their doing.
I definitely think that Chumped BIL needs to know if he doesn’t already. I suspect he has an inkling but no proof, hence the anti-anxiety meds. Don’t let this Chump keep wondering for months and years and maybe even start a family with her. He deserves to know.
I cannot handle secrets like this because it is just plain wrong. Let the Chump know so he can make decisions based on his reality. Your sister is blood but what she is doing is abusing another person. No matter what the relationship, you need to stop this abuser.
Just when we think Cheaters don’t get too close to home, stories like this prove us wrong. CL captured it succinctly in her first paragraph reply…”It’s a question about your relationship with yourself. Who are you? What are YOUR values?
You really can’t differentiate poor character, integrity, immorality and choices between people that are family and those that are not. Nor can you fix your sister anymore than you can fix any other Cheater. Hold your ground, don’t make exceptions or excuses because she’s your sister, or because you may be inclined to believe her reasons have validity. We all know that emotionally mature people don’t lie, scheme, expose others to harm, and betray others in the name of love.
Cheater’s husband had, for a time, the best this freak could offer before she chose to disintegrate. She’s now the person she always was but didn’t want others to see. Wearing a mask didn’t work for long. Settling into marriage with its many challenges and learning opportunities was beyond her abilities. Let her go to discover elsewhere that it takes super-glue to keep that mask on forever. Either that or she’ll need to learn, grow and become a mature adult to find reward and satisfaction in being a better person.
If sister had wanted guidance or support to deal with marriage issues before she chose to cheat, she would have come to you or a therapist beforehand. She didn’t. She came to you afterward to share the many deviant ways she now feels in control of that bring her so-called happiness. She’s exposed. Now it’s up to her, not you, to deal with the light of day.
This is chock full of truth and wisdom Latitude. The twin sister is deviant, enroling NCAT in her duplicity while operating without any boundaries and certainly without any remorse. Empath twin will win in the long term even though it might be choppy waters for a bit.
Yesterday while recovering from my COVID booster shot I was watching an episode of Crime Lies and Video about Ralph Shortey, former senator from Oklahoma, Mr. Christian Family Values Guy, married to his high school sweetheart Jennifer, father of four daughters, who was caught in a motel after midnight with an underage male prostitute and drugs. Whom he connected with on Craigslist. Police were contacted by the boy’s concerned parents which led them to the motel.
The bodycam footage from this event, and the ensuing video from his interrogations at police headquarters, should be required viewing for anyone who is thinking about staying with a cheater ot wondering about telling on one. JFC on a stick.
CHEATING IS ABUSE. IT IS A FORM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. NOT TELLING IS COLLUDING WITH VIOLENCE. So teaches my local domestic violence organization, The Center for Domestic Peace. I agree.
Your sister is an ASSHOLE. And she wants a baby? To pass her baggage on to? Who is going to take care of the baby while she’s hooking up or making plans to hook up or coming down from hooking up? The happiest thing about this letter is that she so far has been denied access to a baby. I am SO glad this morning to hear that a precious innocent baby, who deserves parents who both have their shit together. Ask any one of us here how a cheating parent has fucked up our precious innocent children. You’d understand my outrage if you walked one second in the shoes I have to wear putting my daughter back together after what her father dragged us all into with his secret primary purpose of helping himself and other strangers to achieve orgasm. The psychological damage is out of the stratosphere.
I’m not perfect and I have issues. Same as everyone else walking the planet. But not everyone has issues with INTENTIONALLY HURTING PEOPLE. That’s a VIP section of the human ballpark (Very Immoral Person) not everyone has the credentials for.
The person who is responsible for fucking everything up IS YOUR SISTER. That you would be encouraged to stay silent is also fucked up. Sick families keep secrets.
Your sister is completely fine fucking over your brother in law, Believe us here when we say that he is picking up on it and is totally affected by her conduct even though he hasn’t been told. Just like Bernie Madoff’s victims.
And she has not problem enjoying his ill-placed respect and loyalty while stabbing him in the heart with every click on her device in the direction of another man. What an enlightened superior gal. NOT.
People joke about having an evil twin. You actually do.
TYPO..
“I am SO glad this morning to hear that a precious innocent baby, who deserves parents who both have their shit basically together, has not been brought into this sham of a marriage.”
In case anyone is concerned about “ruining Christmas”, remember there are many people for whom Christmas has been ruined by the intentional harm done to them by others, and that there is never a perfect time to tell anyone truth that is painful.
That being said,, if you know someone is being harmed and deceived, the right time to tell is NOW.
Velvet, I’m here to back you up. Tell him today. Tell him NOW. He can take a personal day if the devastation of betrayal floors him.
There is no perfect time to tell him. Get ahead of your evil twin’s narrative.
Sick families keep secrets <<==== this all the way!
Fuckwit's family, although blue blood all the way, has endemic cheating and weird psychological abuse peppered through it.
If I had known, or actually listened to my gut, I would not have married the guy and his surfacey sparkly family. People like this are cancer.
Omg. Thats ‘wierd psycho abuse’ is my h’s family, with the added dimention of justifying it with religion
If i had only known something about red flags!
NACT – I’m uncomfortable about the level of detail you included in letter. Are you (personally) struggling with the idea that cheating might be an appropriate solution to sexual dissatisfaction?
If you haven’t fully processed that the explanation given by your sister is unacceptable, it is even more important that you do not insert yourself in the events following the disclosure.
I definately do not think sexual dissatisfaction is a reason to cheat, not at all. But my sister does! I was trying to be sarcastic at some parts, kind of making fun of her thought process. Im sorry if i was too graphic. I was writing this letter in desperation because the situation was making me sick.
My heart aches for you and your brother in law. You are both being hurt terribly by your Sister’s behaviour. You have had the shock of a D day, and are obviously very disturbed by your twin’s behaviour. Did you suspect this or did it come as a complete shock?
Brother in law must feel unsettled right now, perhaps assuming that the lack of a child is his fault, driving a wedge between he and his wife. But your sister has gone completely off the rails and needs help.
In the meantime, brother in law needs to be told immediately I feel. You are both hurt by your sister’s actions, and you can start with talking about that . He needs to know.
See how cheating/abusing works ? Not only is your b.i.l. taking meds for his anxiety (the body keeps the score) but you are feeling ill as well.
Your twin must have been a real ???? to grow up with.
I don’t know what the cause of their infertility is…maybe the stress of laying down next to a masked sociopath is lowering his sperm count.
Welp, this is not going to help the poor guy’s anxiety. Or maybe he’s got anxiety because he’s been aware this was going on all along? One of the most disgusting experiences of my professional life in medicine was having a friend who was married to another friend approach me and ask for my assistance so that she could cheat. All I could think was: What have I done that gives you the impression that I would be ok with your vile behavior? And why on earth do you expect me to give you aid in your endeavor? I broke off that friendship and actually stopped having anything to do with the entire extended family group. I think your response depends on exactly what sort of person you think you are. Decent, or not? So she’s your sister. What if she was your brother and raped you? Would you maintain the relationship? No? What exactly do you think your sister is doing to you right here?
I’m sorry that happened to you, Whitecoat. I doubt it was anything about you that made her think you’d agree to be complicit. I really think that these cheaters don’t appreciate the immorality of their actions. To these morally compromised cheaters, asking someone to assist in cheating is akin to asking someone to help organize a surprise party. They minimize and justify. Oh, and she probably thought it would be fun for you to be in on the secret, gifting you a vicarious thrill. Sick!
My x asked one guy to lie for him. The guy did (dammit) but then said that he never wanted to see my x again.
I hope my x was devastated by that burn. He really respected the guy and cared so much about his own, holier-than-thou physician reputation. That said, I still think he justified the hell out of his request. “It was just one lie. I needed to lie because Spinach would have reacted badly. I am otherwise a GREAT guy. I’ve done so much for my patients.” I guess that’s how he looks at himself in the mirror.
I am sorry that happened to you too. On a romance forum this week, there were some ladies enthusing about a “medical” romance and I spoke up and told them from my experience, physicians had a whole lot of sleezy and weren’t really that romantic. It is a profession just set up for cheaters – pagers, call rooms, empty offices at midnight, fake emergencies. I am glad your “x” got burned, but don’t you wish that guy had just said no?
Yup, I do.
Funny how I was on anxiety pills ???? when I was married to my ex? I was off of them in less then a year after the divorce. I don’t think your BIL could be multiple men at once. There is a not a single man who would satisfy your sister.
Sirchumpalot – same. Anxiety meds and two anti-depressants. I went from clean living our first dozen years together to smoking weed every day and drinking more and more each night.
We were married 17 years and he had an affair for the last 5 of them. Funny how I didn’t know he was cheating but started self-medicating right when the affair started. I sensed a problem but couldn’t fix it because he wasn’t talking outside of criticizing.
Devaluing, dismissing, degrading, triangulating, blaming, shaming, but it happened so slowly that I couldn’t see it. I just felt bad about myself, like I was wrong, as a person. So I dulled the pain.
After he left, the pain was so bad that I ratcheted everything up for awhile. Then, last year, I simply stopped smoking and drinking because I lost all interest in it. I’m off anxiety meds now and down to one antidepressant. I no longer feel wrong as a person.
It’s good to be back.
I wish you only the best. My wife had what I can only refer to as a mid-life crisis where nothing in her life was good enough or what she wanted…this was me, job, kids, friends…she swamped out some and was ready to throw out all. Clearly I’m a factor and a contributor to her lack of fulfillment, but even in therapy it was all very inward facing. Saw multiple therapists…most were trying to get to the source of the feelings. At least one focused on, “Let’s see what we can do to get you out of this marriage”. Some of her close friends knew. When I challenged them, they said, “you need to ask her. you need to ask her”. Yes, i probably knew and was stupid, but it created a lot of resentment going forward as well. Please tell the BIL. 6 years later we are not together, it blew up our world (friends and family including our kids) she doesn’t have the life she thought she wanted, she doesn’t have the life and family she gave up and has basically relegated herself to avoiding any emotional investments ever again. I wish you luck.
Rooting for you! Always do the next right thing, and move ahead each day with that in mind. Looking back and knowing you acted with wisdom gives peace. You are doing the right thing. It also may be time after this hurdle to see how your sister may have been influencing you/other family members over your life time and outside of this one event. You may find it helpful to know if your “family of origin” needs a health check/better boundaries, etc…
When my XH of 25 years (4 kids) was caught by our teen kids cheating on Christmas he denied and threatened and blameshifted— them and me. I was blindsided. Six months later several other APs came forward and acquaintances told me of catching him cheating with a married ho-worker 20 years prior. The devastation was excruciating.
His family, who I felt were my family, turned their backs utterly on me and our children. They welcomed one of the young homewrecker APs into their home while our middle daughter was in a psych ward after a suicide attempt— while XH was doing fake wreckciliation in attempt to manipulate me and prevent me from filing for divorce. I found CL and went grey rock. Filed for divorce. Those in-laws never spoke to me or our kids again. Not once.
Fast forward 7 years. XH is estranged from his sisters because he’s harmed them in other ways. . . He has devolved even further. . . Not my circus not my monkey.
They all suck. No integrity. None. Cheater-apologists— look how it turned out for them. My kids are the ones who have suffered the most and it’s heart breaking.
Motherchumper99,
“They welcomed one of the young homewrecker APs into their home while our middle daughter was in a psych ward after a suicide attempt— while XH was doing fake wreckciliation in attempt to manipulate me and prevent me from filing for divorce.”
This is so awful. I hope your daughter is doing better now. I can’t even imagine how tough that must have been for you. Heartbreaking, indeed.
Your comment helps me because it reminds me that I shouldn’t fall into the trap of thinking that my x has changed. No doubt he’s on the road to burning so many relationships. At social gatherings (even with just our children), I used to stand by him with a verbal fire extinguisher, putting out his hurtful comments in real time. But I’m not there anymore to do that. FWs don’t save their shitty treatment for us. It’s how they are. Not surprising that he alienated his sisters.
My best to you and your family.
Thank you for expressing the ‘verbal fire extinguisher’ perspective, Spinach. Up until now I have struggled to find words to express how I used to step in to reduce the hurtful impact of the sarcastic, verbals that the ex gave to others, particularly his mother. She, a woman with strong narcissistic traits, would look wounded and confused (intellectually she did not come close to her husband or ex and his brothers). And I would give her support! The same woman who treated me like poo when he dumped me. I regret every word spoken on her side. The more I read here, the more I come to appreciate just how toxic, damaged, disordered cheaters and many (not all as NACT is demonstrating) of their family members are. I find it terrifying, frankly. All I can do is stay true to myself and my values. That’s my armour.
“They welcomed one of the young homewrecker APs into their home”
This is why I’m not in contact with my former in-laws anymore. I mourn their loss; I miss having that extended family of loving in-laws. But they’re in love with the Wifetress now and I can’t be around that for my own mental health.
Same.
They’ve embraced her. I’m sure they justify it. I mean, they say, “Well he’s my brother/son. I don’t want to lose him. And we must accept the OW /wifetress if we’re to keep him in our lives.”
I get it. But for my own health, I’m NC with them, too. And I try to shut down thoughts of all of them together, which is especially tough around the holidays.
It really is crazy how many relationships must be severed as a result of the betrayal.
No doubt cheaters never consider these potential ripple effects. When my x did the calculation on losses and gains, he came up with only one loss (me!) and was willing to accept that. What an idiot! He lost his kids and so many friends. And I lost people, too. Damn him. (Well, actually, not having to deal with his mom goes in the plus column for me.)
Motherchumper99,
Similar story here – DD24 has been in-patient for eating disorder and depression/anxiety. All brought on by the ex. My DS22 came home from his college department Christmas party last night so happy and excited. His professor’s wife told him how much she has heard about him from her husband – how smart and talented he was. It meant so much to my son who has struggled with the discard and lies and manipulation from his dad. He is longing for a father-type figure in his life. His eyes actually filled with tears when he told me what the professor’s wife said. It made my heart just twist. The in-laws have never spoken to us again either. Unbelievably shocking to me and I should have processed it my now; it’s been 5 years. These people are horrific and do not care how badly they have hurt other people. The just don’t care.
NACT, don’t be surprised if your learn someday that your parents have known about your twin’s actions for sometime now.
There is no finesse in this situation. Tell BIL immediately. Cancel festivities at your house. Treat yourself to a nice getaway.
And consider getting some therapy for your grief.
This whole thing sucks and you didn’t do anything wrong, but you are going to get a lot of blowback. Be ready. You are mighty.
I have twin sisters and we are all close but they are especially close, so this is a crazy and tragic dilemma. Because it may include your parents coming down on you because you’re blowing up ‘the family.’ When people think and do like your sister, it’s so hard to comprehend that it is easier to look the other way, especially when it’s blood. I was amazed to see my holy roly church lady sister in law who crosses herself ten times a day tell me ‘it’s my baby brother right or wrong’ I saw the writing on the wall. Out of everyone in his family I kinda hate her with true intensity. You all sound young but you need to realize this is going to be a long term problem in your family and you will be at odds with your twin forever. It may alter your relationship with your parents, ironically. I have a childhood friend that always cheated with school work. She also was a cheater multiple times in her marriage. She is such a pathetic and weak person. Your sister is, too. And maybe you’ve seen many of these deceptive and sneaky traits over time. There’s just something flawed in them. I think your BiL needs to escape the crazy. There’s maybe a good reason hime’s on medication for anxiety. She’s probably been tricking him for a long time but has internalized it. So. Make this your best Christmas dinner ever then let it happen.
Dear Chump Lady,
Excellent!
Not a Cheating Twin,
My heart breaks for you. I have only one sibling —- a sister (we’re not twins but we are less than 2 years apart in age). And it’s taken years for me to truly accept that she is mentally ill and abusive. She’s never been diagnosed but several professionals through the years have peripherally determined she’s at the very least a borderline personality. My therapist has helped me determine that it’s best for me to keep away from her. Although this also means losing my niece and nephews.
I just took the abuse from my sister for so long. I always wanted a relationship with her. She wasn’t even talking to me for years when I was chumped… but then she found out and wanted to get back with me to enjoy the schadenfreude of seeing me broken. As soon as my life turned around, she’s back to being the miserable angry person she is. And she manipulates our mother to keep her as a flying monkey of sorts.
A friend recently asked “how is it possible you’re both from the same family and upbringing?” And my answer was “even normal families occasionally have someone who murdered someone… or was the one always in prison… or whatever. You are not your siblings.”
You, dear Not a Cheating Twin, are not your sister. You don’t have to play by her rules. But you will very likely lose the relationship with her. And you have to determine what it means to you. She doesn’t care enough about your morals and values and wants to drag you down with her. You can only control you.
Do what’s right. Please tell BIL. And recognize that the results of that rest solely on her. She’s the Cheater. She’s the bragger. And that’s all on her.
Good luck. It really sucks. I’m very sorry.
So many people knew about my husband’s affair. “Friends” I’d known for more than 10 or even 15 years. NOT ONE person ever gave me a heads up. I wish just one person had had the strength and integrity to let me know what was going on. I cut every last one of those people out of my life. Cheaters get away with their abuse because good people stay quiet.
It will be a horrific conversation. It will tear your family apart. But the blame is on your sister, not on you. Your BIL deserves to know the truth so he can make a fully-informed decision about his life. I was led up the primrose path by my cheater, and my divorce and healing stretched on for YEARS. Had I had confirmation of my suspicions, I would have acted much differently. I was denied that, and it was the hardest part of the whole situation. That everyone would lie and cover for the cheaters and leave me in a position of ignorance. I had horrible anxiety and depression, so bad I nearly died (I couldn’t eat or sleep and dropped to such a low weight that my doctor was extremely concerned, and I ended up hospitalized for pneumonia). My hunch is that your BIL is being emotionally abused and gaslit, and his anxiety is a result of that. And yet, like a narcissist, your sister is using the very thing that SHE caused as an excuse for her behavior. My ex did the same – pushed me away through constant verbal and emotional abuse, and then got angry that I didn’t want to have sex with him. He tore down my self-esteem and then berated me that I had no confidence. He fed me lies about how everyone thought I was weird and awful and no one liked me, and then made me feel like shit because I was socially awkward and had no friends.
Every minute that you leave your BIL in ignorance adds to the time it will take him to recover from the damage your sister is causing him. Even your sister seems willing to admit that he’s a decent guy. He deserves the truth. No one wants to be the messenger, but if not you, then whom? I don’t think anonymous is the way to go here. He may not believe it and your sister will deny and gaslight and lie. If it comes from you, who I am sure he knows is close to your sister, it will hold a lot more weight. Would you want to know if you were being cheated on? How would you feel if you later found out people knew and didn’t care enough to tell you? As CL says, this is about YOUR values.
I hope this doesn’t come off as harsh. You’re in a terrible position. Just remember, you were put there by no choice of your own.
“Cheaters get away with their abuse because good people stay quiet.”
No. *Weak* people with no character, integrity, or a moral compass, stay quiet.
*Good* people with empathy, character and integrity stand up for what’s right, even when it might involve them in embarrassment and fall out.
YES, your BIL definitely needs to know ASAP.
I admire you, your morals & your decision
to disclose all this adultery/betrayal immediately. Much respect for you & all other Truth-loving, Truth-telling Brave Heroes. …but wondering…
Is the FORM of disclosure important??
(anonymously, face to face, etc). …don’t know…
Whistleblowers aka Truth-tellers (like Victims)
can be ignored, shunned, scrutinized, judged, mocked, blamed, threatened, punished & even eliminated.
Consider the cost. + Be prepared to pay.
Yes, Twin Sister- please surround yourself with people who will support you as you go through this hard time. Both you and your BIL need a support team at least for the next year. Take care. The shit storm is tough, but like someone else here said “do the next right thing” and have your own safety net. You can rely on your own integrity.
My earlier comment about Whistleblowers was not meant to discourage you from telling.
My vote = Tell your BIL all & immediately.
Tell your Parents all & immediately too.
But don’t tell your sister anything.
Maybe cancel Christmas?
Maybe grey rock her?
It’s not a question about What to do.
It’s not a question about When to do it.
It is about finding & applying the Wisdom
of How to do it. What is the very best form
of disclosure?
Lots of hard-earned advice here for you
to consider. Sending a prayer up for your clarity, courage & protection. God’s speed.
Look how affected you are already by your sister’s unveiling tell, it’s a great deal to absorb.
She wants your support for her actions, you cannot let her have that.
Your sister, sadly, is a person without any empathy or regard for anything or anyone other than her own needs and has convinced herself she is somehow entitled to have that.
That is not fixable personality.
Oh, but her husband is the love of her life but not the passion?! Hahaha. Unreal!
What complete horse poop that is! This woman loves no one at all.
She is also using you to make her narrative have legitimacy, you can be an unwilling accomplice to an ongoing crime. She tells you, you keep her secret, you drive the getaway car and life just continues. You will be damaged if you don’t act, she will pathologically lie to herself and be fine.
It is your obligation to act.
Your BIL is being damaged every single day by your sister.
Infidelity is abuse, it’s a complete sentence needing nothing else to know or add to it.
Your BIL deserves to know the truth, cheating is not the only thing she is doing to destroy him, he is being injured in countless ways by your twin.
It will more than likely forever effect your relationship with your sister I would surmise, but that is on her and just one of many endless consequences of extremely poor decision making by her alone.
There isn’t a rug large enough to push that mess under!
She has given you absolutely no choice as to what your actions need to be.
Live in your own truth, not your sister’s cyclonic mayhem she calls a life.
Tell your BIL in person, alone.
Do not trust your sister to go down easy on this. She’s going to fight it.
I do believe she is capable of turning this completely around to make you look like some sort of character assassin ( they are very skilled liars, comes with the disorder) and then the two of them could throw you out of their lives as a team.
Maybe less likely if you get to talk with him alone first, hard to know how he will take it in. He’s going to need to believe her if he possibly can.
It’s hard to not side with the person you devoted your life to loving, you soooo need them to be real! It’s the trauma bond that holds you in.
Don’t let him make it to the next d-day where they have kids together and it then blows up on him. Help him out now.
Your sister is incapable of loving anyone,these ppl don’t have deep wells of love and caring,their lives are what’s on the surface and very transactional, play acting their way along. People are disposable and replaceable.
I’m sorry for the difficulty of your task at hand. It’s really a painful one to have dumped on you!
Try not to absorb the chaos and drama that will inevitably manifest from this or feel even a tinge of guilt over your decision to reveal the abuse.
The decision was already made by your sister when she told you what she’s doing with her life. She created the chaos.
She wanted your silence as a green light to approval. Stand your ground and refuse to give her that.
Narcissists love the drama, it makes them feel alive, don’t feed it to her.
The facts are simple and clear, she will continue to implode her life for her entire life, but you don’t control that.
You already knew the right thing to do when you posited this to CL.
Your gut won’t lie to you. CL gave you a great reply.
Send your BIL to chump nation after the tell. Your sister will never care about him to the level he deserves to be loved.
He will find love someday and a whole better life without her constantly streaming manipulations and abuse.
It’s not okay to hurt people for personal gain.
Your sister needs to hear that from people who have always loved her.
So common. She is using him, just like my X used me. Why don’t these people stay single? What she’s doing, is the swingin’ single life! ‘But, I’ll just marry some person I can’t show respect for, and pretend I’m part of a family. I want both, I don’t have to choose, that’s how special I am!’
I’ll bet you this cheater is a narcissist, and will go ballistic when the twin tells her husband, because they are never wrong. Go tell, let her live her dream of sneaking down the back path as the wife comes home. And being cheated on herself. Tell, and don’t worry, most people will applaud you!
You’ve got to tell him. Expect to feel anxious and to experience severe blow back, which will make you feel even ickier.
I wish others had done it for me and have done it myself more than once. As someone above said, be prepared to pay. It’s not pleasant but it’s required of morally sentient humans.
It always amazes me on how so many stories are similar around here.
My now XW came from a family of cheaters. Her father was a cheater of epic proportion. Her two siblings were cheaters as well who as far as I am aware are still married. I found out about it before we were married and her obvious disgust with their actions were reasurring.
Her brother got caught, had a “change of heart” when he found out how much he would lose out during the divorce and his wife is now running the local branch of Marriage Police or at least I assume so. She “accepted the blame” for “making him cheat” – gah. In talking to him his only remorse was in getting caught.
Her sister cheated regularly – presumably still does – “because it makes her feel alive” as does her daughter. They both continue in their long term marriages with their spouses presumably none the wiser although it is common knowledge with the rest of the family.
My ex was at a “girls night” that involved her sister, niece, and mother where she was teased for being faithful. Her mother was horrified. When she told me about it, she was horrified too – or at least so she said. No real reason to doubt that.
But soon after – she and her sister became closer as time passed which was a shock to our kids “But Mom hates Aunt x” one of them blurted out.
It wasn’t too long after that that my XW had her own affair and followed the playbook more or less to a T herself. “It just happened”, “I didn’t mean to”, and “I won’t stop”. I pick-me danced for a long time but eventually took off the dancing shoes and put on my boots and got a lawyer.
Now I’m not for a minute suggesting that NACT would become a cheater, just that exposure to it can normalize the behaviour. And once behaviour is normalized and accepted, it becomes easier to mimic it.
BT
I wonder what the cheating twins reaction will be when she finds out her h has been told by her sister??
I’d be ready to say you aren’t willing to be an accomplice to a good guy being duped and exposed to disease. And she should see a therapist. I would keep repeating that until she got sick of hearing it.
“.. she should see a therapist.”
Waste of time. People like this don’t think there’s anything wrong with *them*, they’re absolutely fabulous, everyone’s out of step except them. You just have to look at Sociopath Sis’s comment on the old git who’s paid for her mani/pedi. Blech. ????
Tell them.
I don’t feel like you owe her honesty, so tell them anonymously (https://rigorousthemes.com/blog/best-free-anonymous-email-account-providers/). Both the husband and the guy’s wife (I’d even do some sleuthing to figure out exactly who the guy is – “You go girl!”).
These aren’t your consequences to experience – odd how cheaters want you to have consequences for not keeping their secret. But they don’t want consequences for creating the issue in the first place.
Anonymity gives her too much opportunity to gaslight him and accuse the “anonymous” person of being someone out to get her.
Her husband needs to be told by someone credible and with proof. Bonus if it is someone who cares about him and can give him solid legal advice. He needs to play his cards close to his chest and get out quietly.
She is not going to do the right thing by him, or she wouldn’t have left already. She may never admit it even if she is caught red handed. Him talking to her about it will not help him in anyway, it will just give her more chances to stick the knife in and twist it.
Thank you. I will go through the link and see if I can keep something ready. I hope work VPN will be sufficient. I have experienced fear for my life while I stayed at my brother’s place after my Dday3 with FW. He had grabbed my phone to delete evidence of texts to his AP and threatened me. I left as soon as I could after that incident. Took me a while to find a rental and get basics in order to live safely as a new immigrant. I will tell as soon I can. So far, she has been overseas and I have mentioned to her before they got married that he lies, and I don’t have a good relationship with my brother.
He = cheating lying brother, She = SIL. Both have not been together since they got married due to visa restrictions.
?????
Have you maybe posted on the wrong thread?
I’m sorry you’re going through this, and it’s shit not to be able to trust your own brother. ((hugs)). ????
Yes, I had responded earlier that had now context for NACT as I’m in the same boat+chumped+SIL chump is FW’s cousin who is no longer in contact after FW smear campaign. That message is lost, but I’ll post once I have more updates. FW Brother has initiated divorce conversation with SIL, but hiding the fact that he is a cheating lying asshat. There are people I have informed, but so far, no one has been able to tell her, including my parents who have threatened me not to tell.
“My husband thinks what she is doing is awful and it will be hard to face the brother-in-law at family gatherings, but he says don’t get involved.”
Ah, how they do love to avoid the drama that suffuses our silly little female brains. My XFW urged me to “ignore it” even after it became manifestly clear that the neighbors’ children were stealing toys and money from ours.
Also, not that you don’t have enough stress in your life right now, I would also consider that his position may be a manifestation of the bro code. Might not be a bad idea to casually check that out.
I dont think it has to do with any kind of bro code. He just thinks I should stop stressing out about her problems and feels Im trying to fix things for her when its not my mess to fix.
Well she dragged you into it didn’t she ,by bragging about cheating on her husband because he’s supposedly so inadequate in bed ?
NACT,
It’s good that your husband can already sense that Switzerland isn’t easy to live in. He knows that Xmas will already be uncomfortable, even without telling. He’s right that this situation is like a powder keg of drama. Although he’s reluctant, it sounds like your husband will back your play?? I hope you have back up plans for Xmas.
But I think CL is correct that waiting after Xmas is worse. It’s a bomb squad strategy to set off an inevitable explosion at a time & place of their choosing, asap. Sounds wise. Good luck
I am very close to my sisters and would also be torn in a situation like this. I would worry about the disabled one being thrown penniless on the street, or the other one being physically attacked and possibly killed by her husband. Here is a possible way to proceed: tell your sister that she needs to tell her husband that she has been unfaithful more than once, and that you are going to tell him in two week’s time if she does not.
That will give her time to get a safe distance between them before telling, in case he reacts violently to the news, for example. And you can check in with him in two weeks.
Let’s approach it from another angle. What relationship with your sister? You say you don’t want to ruin your relationship with your sister. What relationship? The one where she doesn’t give a fuck about your boundaries or putting you in an uncomfortable situation and absolutely delights in telling you about how she’s a prostitute to an impotent old man even after you’ve told her you’re not ok with it because it makes her cum harder?
Not a cheating twin, your sister does not respect you. At all. She forces her sex life details on you when you do not want them. She makes you a party to her abuse of her husband because it delights and entertains her to watch you wrestle with your morals over it. Morals she does not have. Your sister is not a good person. She’s showing you that very clearly and she’s at home clapping her hands together and laughing with delight about how you’re taking it from her. The good qualities you see in her are a mask. Non personality disordered people aren’t serial cheaters and they don’t force their family members to participate in their abuse. She’s way beyond some one night stand cheater. This is seriously fucked up behavior but you may not realize that because you’ve been dealing with her your whole life and her BS is normal to you now. But it is not normal. And you don’t have to take it, not even from your twin.
I get that it’s hard. I have a younger sister I basically raised. A sister I went hungry as a child to feed. A sister I took physical abuse for in order to protect. Loved her like a daughter. She is still facebook friends with my serial cheater ex who was planning my murder. She posts her cleavage and he heart likes it. I told her about my new job when I could still my ex’s accounts. He visited three of my company’s locations the next day. Correction, he bought something at three of my companies locations that day, he may have visited more looking for me. I only told her at that time because I wanted to know if I could trust her. It broke my heart that I cannot. So I get it. She’s your sister. But reality doesn’t give a shit about your feelings. You have to take a really hard look at this and see her for what she is and once you see the ugly reality, you may want to keep her at a distance.
As for your BIL, let’s leave feelings out of it there too for a minute. She’s screwing men all over town. Are you going to feel good when he gets a disease and that’s how he finds out she was cheating on him? Is it going to feel good for you when he finds out people he spent Christmas with as family knew what was happening and just let him be completely humiliated? Because I gotta tell you, I lived that, and I spent a couple evenings with a handgun in my mouth over it. My son is the only thing that stopped me from doing it. He doesn’t have that. You say thank God they don’t have children, I say that makes him more likely to kill himself when he finds out he’s been the butt of an abusive multi year joke from your sister and that her family was in on it. Because you are in on it. Whether you like it or not, your sister forced you to be in on it.
You know what the right thing to do is. You could do it anonymously. God knows how many people your sister told since she seems to delight in bragging about it. This was my life. My serial cheater humiliated me constantly and people were either uncomfortable but ignored it or they delighted in joining him in abusing me. But nobody told me. And it stole 20 fucking years of my life. This isn’t ok to do to people. You know that. Your BIL is not some abusive monster you can rationalize deserves this. Even if you hated his guts, it would be fucked up to let this happen. Do the right thing.
I meant let’s leave the BIL’s feelings out of it for a minute. Oh well, I need more coffee.
Oh KatiePig, my heart breaks for you. I’m so sorry. Betrayal, the awful realisation you never actually knew this person, can come in many forms, not only the betrayal of the marriage bond.
And yet, fundamentally, it’s the same thing, betrayal of trust; sister, husband, whoever we have loved, and trusted they would have our back, and to have that thrown in our faces and spat upon is one of the most excruciating and painful heartbreaking experiences ever. I’m so sorry. Your sister is a fucked up evil bitch, and I hope she roasts in hell.
Actually, I hope she finds someone exactly like herself. Fucking slag cow. ????????
I think you tell the BIL. Be prepared for him not to believe you, accuse you of trying to destroy his marriage etc or something else in that vein. Also be prepared for blowback from your sister.
Going forward I would refuse to listen to any of your sister’s tales of infidelity. Tell her you refuse to be an accomplice.
I do like the idea of warning your sister first. I agree it probably won’t make difference.
Hugs. There is no simple way to do this.
Just chiming in to say Thank You CL for the way you reframed NACT’s question! So often when we are struggling for answers, it turns out that we were asking the wrong questions. When the question is reframed to reflect our principles, the answer becomes so clear. Not easy, but clear.
All of LACGAL is a reframing, which is what makes it so powerful. This particular problem that NACT is facing presents the opportunity, and shows the need, for that reframing at every level of our interactions with these disordered cheater freaks. Cl, you are literally helping us to retrain our brains and reevaluate our thinking processes, and that helps in everything and everyone we encounter.
I’m nearly 14 years out from my first D-Day, nearly 12 years out from my freedom, and I am happy with life in a way I never could have imagined I would be. Long since had my Tuesday and reached Meh. BUT I still read here every day, because the reframing is a lifelong process. I find it incredibly useful in dealing with the continual fallout my young adult children still experience from the reality of who their father was and is, and with setting and maintaining my own boundaries in all aspects of my life.
Of all the (many, MANY) things I am grateful to CL and CN for, reframing is one of the most iimpactful.
Many good comments today and a great response by CL. I like the term “reframing” This has made me think about reframing some of the things I have problems with. CL is spot on about the question is what the writer is going to do with the info she has etc. If the cheater were my sister (even if only sibling I had) I would not want to be spending time listening to her brag about her conquests, etc. Not the type person I want to be chummy with, etc. I would be polite to said sister when I saw her at family functions, etc. mostly for my parents. I would get physically sick listening to a sister talk about having 4 or 5 men on the side that sister had sought out and being justified doing so. NACT: Please tell your BIL immediately. Do not wait for sister to have a chance to get pregnant, abuse him further, etc. And by all means think of what if your sis and BIL have children together. They will be totally messed up and suffer greatly for having such a mother. I know this is harsh but I have known people such as your sister who went on to have children while still married and having multiple affairs; results down the road were not pretty. Your sister is not going to do better with her life if she does not have to. Your BIL has a chance to get help and get out and maybe find happiness single or meet someone who appreciates (not devalues) him. The best to you and your family BIL included.
I would like to thank CL and CN for helping me lose some ill-placed shame I’ve been carrying for 25+ years now! I was renting a room from my brother, a playboy, who was in a relationship with a young woman who rented another room in his house. He was also boasting to me and other brothers and friends about his side piece and her bust size. Brother’s girlfriend and I were friends as well as housemates, so this put me in a very awkward situation. One day, girlfriend was freaking out because she couldn’t reach my brother – whom I knew was on a mountain getaway with side piece. The girlfriend picked up on something from me, physically cornered me and I finally told her where he was. She flew out to my family’s mountain house and confronted him.
The whole thing caused a huge rift in my family; my brother didn’t really speak to me for quite some time, my mother told me “blood is thicker than water” and I should have stayed out of it. Even my therapist at the time said I should have offered him the chance to tell her or I would. I’ve felt gui,ty and yes shame all these years, even now as a chump myself! My x-FW Dr. Wonderful carried on an affair for 7/10 years we were married and I had no clue. People at his place of work knew, nobody said a thing to me. Sure wish they would have – in the end, he ONLY reason he told me the (trickle) truth is because his girlfriend was threatening to contact me herself.
I can let go of that shame, I saved that young woman my fate by sinking further time/energy/costs into a relationship with my brother who thought so little of her, and me.
WooshyM,
You have and never had (at least in my humble opinion) any shame to bear; you did what you thought was right (and not what was easy) at a difficult time and when you were conflicted. To me that is the hallmark of good character and good judgement, and something to be proud of.
And while I’m at it, your mother needs to understand the entirety of the “blood is thicker than water” quote because she is completely missing the point; it means the polar opposite of what she thinks it does. The full quote is “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.” In essence, it says that the bonds that we make through choice (and particularly those we forge in adversity), are stronger than those that result from who we happen – by chance – to be related to by birth.
LFTT
LFTT,
Thanks for the original quote ! (How did I not know this ?! I consider myself to be fairly well read)
I’ve said “Blood may be thicker than water but love is even thicker”
What if you were not identical twins but fraternal twins and it was your brother who was the cheater? Would you be more likely to confront him instead of being part of the cheating scheme? I was married to a man (and I use that term loosely) who loved the thrill of cheating, enjoyed the secret life, felt totally entitled to cheating. When I asked him why he simply said ” because I wanted to .” DO NOT let this happen to your BIL. At this moment we are all watching the fiasco in New York with two brothers and are being told by the media that it is understandable because after all he did it for his brother. Bullshit! When something is wrong it’s still wrong when it’s a family member.
1. I don’t have a sister or a twin but I wouldn’t want to hear all those excruciatingly intimate details and then share a holiday meal with the spouse.
2. I am glad you are not MY friend.
My apologies. I reacted before reading all the comments & your reply, NACT, that it’s only been a week. You are brave in trying to deal with this.
The wide rings around a cheater, sociopath, or narcissist, touch so many people. It’s impossible to fix the situations they messed up. Remember that it is HER problem. Your entire family will be affected. She’s like a runaway train & all of you are collateral damage.
I would be questioning whether it’s just the anti-anxiety meds that are causing your BIL’s low libido. My XH looked like a model, yet as time went on I struggled to be attracted to him. The body knows before the mind and no exterior is attractive enough to mask the disorder within.
Do NOT tell your sister you are going to tell her husband. That just gives her time to hide money and/or evidence of the affairs. Just tell him before he has to co-parent with her or gets a disease.
After learning I was a chump for at the very least 15 years to a serial cheater I can tell you for sure that I absolutely needed people to tell me. Cheaters often tell their APs that they aren’t getting their needs met or they have an arrangement or some other poor baby justification story. And of course I’d have been shocked disoriented and devastated. In fact I did get a call but I was so disbelieving that I heard the name wrong and didn’t understand what was happening. The person asked if I was being mistreated. They never specifically mentioned the infidelity. I didn’t put two and two together for over a decade… though it probably won’t feel like it, you are doing a kindness.
Another identical twin here. I don’t think anyone else (singletons) understands the dilemma and pain Not a Cheating Twin is going through. If she tells, she may be blowing up her relationship with her sister forever. Then what? It’s not like she’s just a friend or a regular sibling. I have/had three other siblings but it’s just not the same.
I was faced with a similar decision myself. After I filed for divorce from my ex, who I had discovered was living a down-low life as a gay man after 43 years of marriage, my twin sided with him. She claimed she would have known if he had been gay. The fact that we (my sister and I) had been living far apart then for fifteen years and only saw each other a few times a years didn’t matter to her. She never saw the verbal and emotional abuse and accused me of being delusional. They discussed things behind my back. I believe he is a covert narcissist. I don’t know what to call her.
What was really fueling her anger towards me was that I had called her out on some of her behavior over the years that I felt was selfish and self-centered. It took me years to see the pattern in her behaviors because I always gave her, as well as my ex, the benefit of the doubt.
Yet, our lives and our children’s lives are so intermeshed that I couldn’t bring myself to “divorce” her as I did my husband. I have been no-contact with him for six years now. But I don’t know how to leave my sister. We now live close to each other and share holidays with each other and our children’s families. I will never fully trust her again, certainly to have my back, but the thought of not having her in my life blows my mind.
If she dies first I don’t know how I will cope.
Thank you for your reply. You’re right other people dont undersrand the relationship between twins that are close. If she was any other person I would not want to have anything to do with her. And I know I cant fully trust her, but i still dont want to cut her out of my life. Im sorry you were hurt by your twin too.
I wish I had time to read all the above answers.
Was your sister ever molested?
If not why is it that you have morals and she doesn’t?
Yes, i think she was. When we were in middle school she told me and a friend that she was sexually abused when we were younger, i think it was her first grade teacher, but dont know for 100% thats who it was. I didnt get much details about it. My friend and i went to the school counsolor. I dont even remember what we said, its like its blocked from my memory. I think the school contacted my parents, probably was a welfare check.
I remember my parents talked to us and wanting to know if anyone had hurt us. We said no. There was more to the conversation, obviously, but my sister and i held our ground. I was too chicken to tell my parents what she had told me, didnt want to make them upset.
My sister asked me to never say anything about it again. I didnt until we were probably in our late teens, early 20s and i asked her about it. she acted like she didnt know what i was talking about. Im sad for her if its true and i was not better support.
Please be kind to yourself. You were a child. No one could fault you for not knowing what to do then.
Thank you.
This kind of acting out behavior is fairly common in people who were molested as children. She needs intense therapy. Her up became her down. I want to stress that this will continue unless she gets help.
It’s time to share this with your parents. Your sister may hate you for telling but they need to know what she told you years ago. This should never be kept a secret.
A very good friend could not figure out how her 12 year old daughter became so promiscuous until years later when she shared what happened to her. Her childhood was ruined.
We are pushing 40 and I dont think it is for me to tell a victims story. If she were a child I would tell, of course, but we are way past that point. She needs intensive therapy and if she wants to tell them then that should be her decision on her timeline of healing.
Letgo, ???? % agree with you.
Childhood sexual abuse is often the Root cause of on-going, current adult issues aka a Branch
aka symptoms.
???? Axe to the root? Necessary. ???? Axe to a branch? Futile.
Hope NACT re-reads & really “gets”your VITAL message.
She can be a Truth-teller ???? ????-OR- a Secret-keeper. ????????????
It’s ???? cherry-picking (hypocrisy, imho) IF she omits childhood abuse. SHE LIED to her Parents. Fact. She is responsible to tell them the truth. Immediately.
She CAN be a Truth-telling example/ leader – OR- she can
be a Secret-keeping hypocrite.
Either she is part of the solution OR she’s part of the problem.
Praying for her clarity & courage.
The lies and secret keeping of her life are simply continuing. Victims learn young to keep secrets and lie about things that would bring her or her family shame.
Everything needs to be out in the daylight, it’s the only way for all parties involved to start living in reality. This includes her, you, your BIL, and your parents.
NotAnymore, You speak the truth.
Do you really believe that someone who is a serial cheater, who says she really loves her husband? You don’t want to lose your relationship with the person you wish your sister was but that’s not who she is. She is willing to hurt deeply and forever her husband and her imitate family. This will change the course of their lives. Secrets always come out. . . always. Reality wins every damn time. Don’t wait, help him.
Why not give your sister an ultimatum? Tell her she has 24 h to tell her husband or else you will. Tell her you will contact him to confirm that she told him everything and if necessary provide proof (save all your messages etc.).
I would then call the parents and tell them what had happend and what you asked your sister to do.
Be prepared this will burn bridges with your sister. Tell her what she needs to do to earn back your trust and respect. Be prepared she will make you out to be the bad guy.
Tell him. Tell him tell him tell him.
I rarely post here but as a recent chump, I’m begging you, tell him.
If it helps clear your conscience, ask your sister to tell him first before you take it to him yourself. And, when she inevitably refuses, ask her why. If she’s morally in the right, and this isn’t a big deal, she should have absolutely no problem telling him. Things that aren’t hurting other people have no reason to be kept secret.
The opposite is true: what she has done to her husband is evil. It’s torture. It’s abuse. And she wants to keep him in the dark so he can obliviously continue to supply cake.
And if you knowingly shelter the truth from him and continue to keep him in the dark, you are essentially siding with abuse. I know you don’t likely want to view it that way, but it’s absolutely true. Anyone who sees abuse and looks the other way is allowing the abuse to continue to exist. You’re either for or against the behavior. There’s no middleground here. This is one of those black-and-white things.
It’s uncomfortable. I get it. It’s the easy road to look the other way and not cause a stir. I think nice people are programmed to avoid ‘drama.’
But being ‘nice’ isn’t the same thing as being ‘kind’, as one of CL’s old posts put it.
Be kind. Tell him. Deal with the ‘drama’ and the awkward fallout that occurs, but rest assured that you did the right thing by helping to put an end to the abuse happening in your own family. If your sister really loves you, she’ll own up to it and try to rebuild the bridge, admit fault, clean up her act, and become a better person so she can keep a healthy relationship with you. If not… let the trash take itself out and be firm in your own ideals. You can sleep easy knowing you made the right choice.
Kaela,
“You’re either for OR against this behavior
(Lying, Cheating 4 OM, Bragging, Joking)
There’s NO middle ground here.”
The easiest route out of this mess is say to your sister “either you tell him or I will.” So, you give her the option of autonomy. And she can’t say you didn’t warn her. Give her a timeline to decide, like a week or less…then do what you gotta do. You can also tell her that you are morally obligated to let him know what she’s doing, if just for the possible STD issue. This is your value system, to which you are entitled.
But, expect her to hate you and try to destroy you and come at you like all cheaters do when you challenge their actions. Best of luck. I’m not a twin, but I’m very close to my sister–like Irish twins. We tell each other everything and keep each other’s [nonharmful to other people] secrets. She’s by all account my true life partner. And, I would tell her husband if I learned this, if she refused to do so. It’s basic morality.
I wouldn’t give her notice, because she’d hide evidence, or further mess with BIL’s head so he won’t listen when NATC tells him. And/or plot destruction. I’m totally with the “tell in person” camp. But I wonder if NACT should warn the rest of her family. I suspect her twin will ruin Xmas in retaliation.
Yea, I can see that. I guess though in the Game of Life, I like to make double sure that my side of the street is clean. A sister relationship is complicated, and it sounds like the twin who wrote has not exactly been forthright with her cheater twin about her specific views on the cheating…otherwise why would the cheater twin be still texting her brags about her escapades?! I suspect there’s not been a direct and brutally honest conversation. All things being considered, I’d have that first, inclusive of the information that the husband will be informed, one way or another, and then let the chips fall where they may and avoid any further drama as it arises.
There are countless categories of human existence I will never be able to experience and therefore comment on. No one of us can ever inhabit the skin of another person, whether it’s as a a twin, “singleton”, black, white, straight, gay, American, European, man, woman, transgender, etc. Too many to ever list.
The issue as I see it, convoluted by the twin factor today, is what do I do when I know someone is hurting another person and the victim is unaware? My relationship to them aside, what is the right thing to do? For me, the question is HOW (which stands for Honesty, Open-minded, and Willing) to tell. Not IF (which stands for Integrity Forfeit) to tell.
If someone, no matter who they are or how I am related to them, is deliberately doing harm to another, and I make that harm known to the victim, the authenticity, the truth, the quality, the reality, and the strength of my relationship with the perpetrator of that harm will be revealed. I can’t lose what I never had. If I lose a relationship because I acted in integrity, what have I actually lost? The subtitles today that I see are about the actual catastrophic damage caused by selfish cheaters who justify what they do and claim they are not hurting anybody. It’s OK because it’s about LOVE. I see an abject absence of love radiating outward and the cheaters at Ground Zero.
If my relationship ends with anyone because I did the right thing and acted with integrity, I haven’t lost a true relationship. It’s just been revealed to be the mirage that it was.
I no longer want to be involved with anyone who has the capacity for cruelty and lack of empathy required for cheating.
I speak as a person who has ended relationships with family of origin family members and relatives because of physical and or emotional/psychological abuse. Yes, you can choose your family.
It was NOT a pain-free decision. Ending the relationship is LESS PAINFUL than maintaining relationships where pretending everything is fine, where ignoring bullshit and problems and issues and harm done is required. No reality allowed? There’s no reality on the table to lose. No quality of life in that either. Anne Morrow Lindbergh was right on when she said that pretending was the most exhausting thing.
Without trust and safety and integrity and accountability and appropriate problem-solving and authenticity and cooperation, there is no relationship in the first place.
Outward appearances of relationships are not actual relationships. But lots of people accept that and are OK with it. Cheaters are those kinds of people. I’m not in that category.
“Outward appearances of relationships are not actual relationships.”
You’ve outdone yourself today VH.
“The most exhausting thing in life, I have discovered, is being insincere. That is why so much of social life is exhausting; one is wearing a mask. I have shed my mask.”
— Anne Morrow Lindbergh, Gift from the Sea: 50th-Anniversary Edition
NACT:
Why don’t you forward your BIL this entire thread? The cruelty of your sister is ridiculous. Many years later, I myself wonder who knew and never told me I was a chump. I consider their betrayal just as cruel.
E-mail the thread. And you’ll be clueing your BIL in to Chump NAtion! We hope to see a letter from BIL soon. Poor, poor man. Make hos D-Day today. Don’t let him go another day as a fucking chump in the dark.
This whole story made me so angry.
The sister blames the victim for her cheating.
If she is so unhappy in that relationships that she needs to fuck around with other married men , than she should be honest and leave the marriage.
The same is true for the “rich” guy.
Does being financially well off mean that it is ok to cheat on your wife?
It even sounds different. Compare ” She fucks the unemployed guy who lives in a trailer park when his wife is away” to ” she fucks the rich guy”
Whats wrong with everyone?
“Im mad at my sister that i have to figure out when is the best time to ruin someones life.”
@NATC – YOU are NOT ruining his life. You are exposing the rot before it can harm him further.
If you haven’t done so already, consider having him come to your house so he can stay a night or two if he wishes. I don’t know if it’s better or worse to have them both come to your house when you lay it all out there. The good part is if your sister goes bonkers, you can throw her out. If she refuses to leave, you can call the cops and have her removed.
Lance the festering boil. His health issues won’t immediately and completely disappear overnight (therapy may be very helpful to him), but she has been lying to him for YEARS.
I’m inclined to tell him privately so he can get angry and get his ducks in a row. Have a copy of LACGAL handy. Pull up the website.
Be kind to him because his wife has been horrible.
Sorry. I meant @NACT or NotACheatingTwin. My brain twisted things around.
I’m so sorry for your BIL. Your sister’s character sucks. By telling him, you are preventing yours from being tarnished.
Your sister has no respect for you. Nor for her husband. Nor for the friend who divorced his cheating spouse. If she did, she would not be so nonchalantly listing her betrayals and not consider how unfair it is for you to hear and bear such information. She just gave you this responsibility of keeping her cheating habits a secret without asking your consent. You asked if you should let this go. Do you mean you will spend more time listening more of your sister’s narcissictic stories? You said you tried to tell her how messed up this is, but she did not care. How will you respond to this unfairness? Just staying quiet, and defining her serial cheating and the harm she is inflicting on everyone as just “disappointing”?
I would not want someone dear to me-be it a spouse or a partner- nowhere near your sister.
BIL should not spend one more minute in this relationship. It is horribly unfair for him that he is left in dark.
Sad.
Rooting for you! Thank you for sharing this.
Thank you everyone for the advice, wisdom and support. It has helped me and gives me courage to do the right thing.
So Ive known this for about a week now. I have been talking to my sister that she needs to tell her husband. The other day she told me she was going to stop seeing other men. She said she let them know and then blocked them, but didnt say she was going to tell her husband.
I do believe her about stop seeing the other men. I think she told me because she knew she needs to stop all of this. She knew i would give her a dose of reality.
I let emotions get the better of me yesterday. I told her I wrote to chump lady. I sent her some of the replies. I wanted to her to face how wicked her action have been. I feel like this is the only place that truely holds cheaters accountable and when you look at other websites about infidelity they seem to put some blame on the chumps. I told her if she doesnt tell him I will.
I didnt hear from her for a bit but then she texted me and said she was going to tell him that night. This morning she texted me and said she told him. She said she told him about all the guys. She said he wants to forgive her! I think he was just in shock and I cant imagine after he has some time to think about it he will still feel that way.
I believe she did tell him but I am going to call my bil when i get done work. I want to offer my support, fill in the blanks for him and let him know I wasnt going to let him stay a chump.
“She said…” Liars lie. I hope your brother does wake up after the shock has worn off and gets away from her. Hopefully before she gets pregnant (and tries to pass off another man’s child as your b.i.l.’s).
☮️ ????
I just want to offer my support and say that although other strategies may seem better to other people, you are the one on the firing line and you need do what is right for you.
I sent you the very best thoughts and energy for healing, clarity and strength.
NACT: Please keep CN and CL posted about how everyone including you is doing with this. Be sure to ask BIL to joint CN. He may think he wants to forgive her, etc. now but from what I have learned about cheating: Almost always, once a cheater always a cheater. Unfortunately for me (maybe fortunately) there is not enough forgiveness and trust in the world for me to think I could forgive and continue as spouse if I were your BIL. People who have the ability to disregard their partner’s feelings, etc. while they cheat usually do not give up cheating for long. You are a good sister, SIL and daughter. You have had a very heavy burden placed on your shoulders. Best of luck with this ordeal.
My Bil knows. It was devestating to talk to him but I feel a weight has lifted off my shoulders.
Prayers and thought for the best to all of you. I can not imagine being in a more difficult situation than you and your family are in.
You did the right thing, NACT. I know it was awful to find out your sister is officially a cheating creep and to have to share that with him – but no matter what happens to their relationship it was put into motion by her CHEATING. Not your refusal to be complicit with her ongoing lies.
I hope you turned him to the Tracy’s book and this website. He needs support now and in the future. So do you!
Big hugs.
NACT- wow. You have been through a lot in just a few days time. ((Hugs)) I can’t imagine how hard it was to talk to BIL or your sister. I hope you can rest easier now that the weight is lifted. Wishing you the best as you move through this.
Good for you. Hugs.
Good on you. How was the situation after this? How are you now all this time later?
Soooooo proud of you. Hugs from CN.
I told my BIL that my sister was cheating on him before and after she left him. He was a divorce attorney. He filed immediately. My sister did not talk to me for 4 months at all. Our family split. I thought it was actually not my business but I would want to know if it were me. I was chumped a few years later. Then again last year. My sister has been kind and forgave me. But she still blames her x for not being good enough for her. It is an Incendiary bomb to tell. But it felt awful to keep that secret.