Any Jesus Cheater Stories?
Dear Chump Lady,
As a Chrisitian chump, I find the Jesus cheaters especially reprehensible. Not only does the cheating shake/ negatively impact my view of relationships, intimacy, men and marriage, but also a faith that had always been a refuge for me. Now I tend not to trust any of it. The shift is a big one for me, since for most of my life I’ve always been positive about the aforementioned. It’s a bit of an identity crisis – I don’t know who I am anymore. Do other chumps feel this way?
Mighty Momma
(Attachment about the scandal about Carl Medearis a former pastor with Vineyard church. Who fired the guy and more victims came out.)
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Dear Mighty Momma,
I know Christians don’t have the market corned on hypocrisy, but I sure do get more Jesus cheater letters than I do from, say, Zoroastrians. It might be a U.S. thing, the shiny-haired mega church pastor who’s boffing the parishioners.
You know how sorry Medearis was? — He formed a new ministry. THAT sorry.
I usually forward this kinds of queries to Divorce Minister. I’m a very lapsed Methodist and am highly suspect of mega churches and shiny pastors. I met a guy at this conference I was just at, who was a Baptist missionary and he told me he doesn’t understand these big churches. “Anything over 100 people — you can’t do your job! How you gonna visit all those people in the hospital or know what to say at their funerals? It’s too big to pastor.”
How quaint. The idea of showing up for people, and like… being of service. What crazy talk is that?
Oh, speaking of crazy talk, Mighty Momma attached the letter Carl sent.
Your Friday Challenge is to UBT this sad sausage crap, or tell your own Jesus cheater story. (Or any other faith community disappointment.)
TGIF!
Dear Chump,
I am an addict. I’ve struggled with addiction for the last 5 or 6 years. I suppose it didn’t start on any specific date, but as my heart wandered from the sweet closeness of Jesus, my tendency towards filling it with other things grew. Those things I’ve been looking for my whole life — affirmation, affection, acceptance — I know where they truly come from. I do. No one but God. But for some reason, I didn’t always accept that and instead, looked for it elsewhere. To the great detriment of my own soul and to the great harm of those closest to me. My sin is ever before me and makes me sick.
I’ve hurt the one I love most – Chris – terribly. Our marriage is struggling and has been during this whole time. She’s remained faithfully with me, but it’s taken a toll on her heart, and that devastates me. Please pray for her and for me.
It has also hurt our three children. They are sad and confused by me. And of course, our very closest friends who know are disappointed but (mostly) hanging in there with me, though I have lost some of them.
One of the gazillion things that makes this hard is that I know the right answers. And they are right. Pray and read the Bible and stay close to Jesus and his community of friends. Those are correct. “Don’t do it” is a classic, and…totally true. The fruit of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit in greater abundance. Truth.
I’ve counseled people in my position. I know what to tell them and I’ve told it to myself. I’ve been to a bunch of counselors and retreats and talked it through honestly with close friends and my wife. And prayed. And…and…and.
But I think I’m learning there’s something at the root of all that that I’ve missed in the past. Desperation. Total brokenness. Not the good, godly, humble kind that we say about the man whose life shines of Jesus. Nope. Just the gritty, unsightly, broken man type. Humbled, not humble. Fallen, but not yet back on his feet. Dead, but not yet resurrected. Just on the ground in tears. Sobbing, hurting, and often without much hope. That’s where I’m at right now.
And telling you all? Scares the hell outta me. Some of my good friends reading this will be wondering what I’m talking about, because I haven’t shared this even with them. Many of you don’t know me personally, but I feel like I owe it to you all to share this. Some will say, “About time, you hypocrite,” and they’d be right to say it. It is one of the — maybe THE — hardest thing I’ve ever done to write this email. You trusted me, and I’ve let you down.
But there it is. I’ve chosen not to go into details. Not to exaggerate or diminish what I’ve done and who I’ve become. I’m still loved dearly by my heavenly Father and even (amazingly) by my wife. Even if feeling and receiving that love is not easy right now. I am getting some good help. Turning a page or two in the book of my life. Hope still springs. I am not gone. I have a future and one where I am whole and healthy and fully alive in Christ. (And with Chris).
Some of you send money our way from time to time. You pray for us. You support our endeavors into the Middle East and now in Greece. We are grateful for that, and we have seen God do amazing things over the years (despite me being a broken clay pot). If it matters, we haven’t taken money given here for personal salary for about ten years. We only use it for things directly related to our 501(c)3 purpose of sharing Jesus. But still, you give out of trust, and I’ve broken that. I’ve learned to manipulate and control my environment in some pretty sad ways over these years, and that breaks my heart as much as anything.
I love and respect and appreciate all of you who read these emails — friends, acquaintances, or just subscribed. I give you my heartfelt apology for not being the person I’ve been created to be. Forgive me when and if you can or want. If you reply to this email, both Chris and I will receive your reply. Hopefully one day I’ll continue writing Jesus-inspired emails here. Until then…
With love and in the spirit of repentance,
Carl
I am rolling on the floor laughing after reading his faux-pology. But, like the pastor, I choose not to go into details…
The only thing he said that I believe, and the only line necessary to say is, “Many of you don’t know me personally.”
No one knows him personally. Even the people who know him personally don’t know him. He doesn’t even know himself.
The loneliness cheaters complain of is caused by themselves. When you lie and keep secrets and are dishonest, and live a double life, no one knows who you are, ergo, loneliness. Believing your own lies means you don’t even know yourself.
Compounded loneliness.
The antidote to that loneliness is to be upfront, straightforward, and let people know the truth about who you are. To be honest with yourself. To conduct yourself as if your behavior is going to be on the front page of the newspaper. (It might). It heads off a world of problems and hurt.
I’ve noticed that the cheater/side piece solution after getting caught is to strong arm others into perpetuating the phony front and dismiss/minimize/otherwise discount and justify harm they’ve done.
Intimacy = Into Me See
Dishonesty prevents intimacy. And loneliness is the result.
Intimacy requires openess.
Asshat’s dishonesty is what prevented intimacy between us, even when I didn’t know all of the lies. He always wanted to put it on me.
Did Carl’s actual chump/wife receive and forward the letter to CL?
Or was this the letter shared with Carl’s congregation?
I’m confused from the outset. Mission accomplished, Carl.
I put “chump” in place of the letter writers name. It was a form letter sent to his entire mailing list.
A form letter.
…A. Form. Letter…
Wow. Nothing says sorry like “Cc All.”
He probably found out his suckers…I mean donor list had heard about his shenanigans and he didn’t want them to stop donating money, so he sends out this drivel.
If he’s taking no salary, it’s because socking away donor dollars into an offshore account. That’s just how FWs do.
But Kara, what is the point of an apology if there isn’t an audience to give FW kibbles for it???
Blah, blah , blah Carl. Jesus word salad is the worst. The FW cheater I was married to and cheated for 35 years said “I know you will scoff at this but I’m praying for you.” Maybe pray for yourself idiot! I have no place for myself in the christian church. My children of their own volition don’t either and guess what? They are kind, moral, good people. They don’t cheat or lie or intentionally hurt people. They have very good boundaries and are very spiritual. Jesus and I are on permanent break but I don’t begrudge others their comfort in him. Just don’t talk to me about it. I have my own faith.
“I know you will scoff at this but I’m praying for you.”
Too bad there is not a scoffing emoji because I’m definitely scoffing.
I totally agree with you. My boyfriend is not religious and he’s the best person I know, just a genuinely good person who helps people. I myself am quite religious but don’t go to a church because I can’t find one that doesn’t give me the ick.
That’s ok Katie. Because, Wherever there are two or more…
Religion has complicated everything
I just reposted a post on this phenomenon regarding disillusionment. Personally, I believe we go through a morally injurious event when cheated on by a confessing Chrisitian. It messes with our worldview. We have to recontextualize our faith to keep hold of it… at least, I had to do this. I am looking forward to sharing more on this and similar topics at Chumpalooza 1.0.
I think there are so many bad people in church because they need it more than people who just stay home and watch TV with the kids. They’re all into repentance because THEY NEED TO.
I tend to agree, Mehitable. If you aren’t inclined to do shitty things, you don’t need to pray for the strength to refrain from doing them.
Yes! I’m questioning everything I’ve believed. I still have faith, but it is not as peaceful anymore.
What gets me is when my cheater says, “I’m at a good place now with God. I’ve been praying and am not going to let the past define me anymore.” Wha wha what?
This is the religious equivalent of, “I don’t need your forgiveness, I’ve already forgiven myself” (REAL QUOTE from one of my cheaters, who wasn’t religious at all).
Narcissists will use any excuse to avoid accountability.
The narcissism even with God. A mere mortal doesn’t stand a chance at a healthy relationship with this divine cheater.
They’re lying to themselves when they say that. God’s standards require obedience. You cannot continue breaking the Ten Commandments (with no shame, apparently) and have God being “fine” with you. Matthew 7:21-23 makes that clear.
How do you respond to the Jesus Cheaters who like to proclaim we are all sinners. And as Christians, we must forgive?? I’m a lapsed catholic but even so, I agree with the general principles of this form of Christianity. How can these FWs spew scripture and God’s love and they do not even live by these principles (10 commandments)?
What they are doing is called “sin leveling.” It is a term to denote making it sound like all sin is the same–i.e. on the same “level.” This isn’t true. Sin has disproportionate impact. Murdering someone is different than speeding. Both are crimes. We would consider a system grossly unjust that punished both crimes in the same way. If the God of the Bible treated all sin the same, then God would not be just. So, we know this is a distortion of application when someone says such things. As far as the command to forgive is concerned, I would point out that Jesus tells us to forgive IF someone repents (Luke 17:3). So, the question I’d have for them is: “What makes you think he has repented?” We can’t start to talk forgiveness until that part has been done according to Jesus 😉
In my Evangelical experience, I was told that all sin was equal. In my Catholic experience I was taught there were venial sins and mortal sins. When Cheater was actively involved in his “big” adultery with Susan of Seattle, he was clearly living on “the dark side” (think the dead shark eyes we seen them”.
To me, Mortal sin is a thing you do that is so reprehensible that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in you while you do that thing. It’s intentional and chosen.
My whole experience with him made me believe even more in these truths. I am sure that my Cheater went in and out of mortal sin. I think the timing of his death was because he was living within Grace by the skin of his teeth but headed to another dark place…I could see it in him as clear as storm clouds in the sky. God scooped him off the planet while he could still make his way to purgatory.
DM – I’ve been thinking during my experience of all this that pastors need to preach more on the parts of the Bible that talk about having nothing to do with people who are teaching untruths or piously trying to look good while not feeding their elderly parents. It literally says to not even talk to these people. But it is rarely spoken of in church. Every time I hear a sermon on forgiveness and humility, I’m on a mission to point out to the pastor that those generally good practices don’t apply when abusive people are involved.
Well, he’s scum so he sees nothing wrong with slinging around God to make himself look good or get what he wants. It means nothing to him. These scumbags will use anything for their own profit. Nothing is sacred to them, literally nothing.
BTAW: aww, isn’t it precious when a miscreant lets himself off the hook?
Superficial apology. Just like his love for his wife. If your going to truly love in depth and also be accountable for your actions, then some details may be needed in that apology, sir!!
I don’t feel sorrow or pain he is fighting through or any true remorse. It is a cookie cutter please forgive me for I have sinned apology. When someone ones to “repent” you will feel it in their soul. Actions not words. What are you doing about it Carl????
FWIW, when pastors cheat with congregants, they are engaging in professional abuse… like a psychologist sleeping with her patients. We call it Clergy Sexual Abuse. Even adults are victims as they are in a vulnerable position towards the pastor being under their “care.”
And what about when adult clergy become handsy with tween girls? My grandmother’s ministers (more than one, that wasn’t a typo) in the Church of Christ were intent on hugs, kisses and “accidental” contact with my developing breasts. My grandmother didn’t believe me when I told her of the first or the fortieth offense, nor did she believe me about the first or the second minister. I must be making it up; they were good men of God. I guess I’m still angry about that — and so many other offenses by “Christian” church leaders.
I am so so sorry. We have to believe women and girls when they come forward! Fortunately, when I told my mom about her brother “touching me” inappropriately, she instantly believed me and went full mama bear (because she too had been abused as a child). The ubiquity of ped0philes and borderline ones (like FW who selected a barely 18yo sugar baby when he was 44) is sickening and makes me so scared to parent a teen daughter. You have every right to be still angry. I loved my grandmother very much but there is a part of me that is still angry at her 22 years after her death because she paid for the lawyer to make sure her son got a minimum sentence for abusing me and a second cousin (we were the same verrrrry young age). She told me she loved me but he was her son, and then nobody ever talked about it again while she lived. Grandma was the matriarch and her word was law. I had to spend every holiday with this vile critter until I was in my 20s and my grandmother died and all his siblings made it clear he was no longer welcome among the family for what he’d done to me. Please know I’m sending you whatever vibes/prayers/hugs that suit your beliefs.
She believed you. She just had more loyalty to him, and probably didn’t know how to deal with it. She was also a product of her generation.
Yeah, that is awful and wrong. I am so sorry that your grandmother did not believe you. It is absolutely predatory and totally wrong. Makes sense that you are angry. Your boundaries were violated, and people who should have protected and supported you did the opposite. I’m so sorry.
I’m so sorry that happened to you and that she didn’t believe you. Those men are pedophiles, pure and simple. It is so awful how often it happens. When I was in my late 20s, it came out that the priest who had been at my family’s church when my dad was an altar boy was a horrible pedophile who had abused hundreds of boys and been moved around by the church for it. It was horrifying.
My dad got into drugs at a very young age. It basically ruined his life. He died an addict. Since then I have always wondered if that was why. He denied that anything had happened to him when it came out and people in the family were concerned but that didn’t surprise me. It makes me so sick that adults can do this shit to children. They should all be killed for it.
Holy Epiphany!!!
I had to glaze over most of his word salad…but victimized much???
Poor thing is a wayward Christian. But don’t worry – Jesus loves You !!!
Now seriously – he’s a perv who clings to his Christian identity in hopes of being forgiven – because he’s not like those other cheaters.
As an x Minister’s Wife ( I didn’t like his girlfriend ), I find this is common. I bet he owns many cardigans and tries to friend girls in the Youth Group on line to mentor them too. He’s a good guy.
Satan’s Puppet needs a swift kick in the Bible Belt if you ask me!
I am laughing out loud reading your response. Thanks for the deep Bible Belt laugh 🤣
Sooo much word salads! Platitudes. Notice that he never comes out and explicitly name what he did. It is vague. That’s a sign to me that he doesn’t really want to give up whatever or whomever he is doing.
Asshat comes from Indiana, so his clan are hardcore no card playing not dancing teetotaling Methodists. I grew up going to church and VBS every summer. In fact, my mother realized the financial value of summer camp, so I attended Reformed Morman & Baptist, in addition to Methodist camps. I’m a believer, but have an open mind and believe God loves ALL. I also drink, probably too much, especially right after divorce.
During our 25 year marriage, I was the one that schlepped the kids to all the family reunions and such (from Michigan), while Asshat used the excuse of working. He worked with his brother, who always requested to have the time off to be at the events. There was always a church sermon during the reunion weekend. I’m sure he’s spinning it now that I made him work and he really wanted to attend–HA!
Right after Asshat sent the text to me and kids meant for HoWorker/Wife but before divorce was filed, I sent a request for a bible verse to one of his cousins. Crickets. I later learned that HoWorker/Wife hosted a luncheon for my former niece a few months after our divorce was final, where many of those same “Christians” attended. Although I did end up seeing some of the wedding photos, they weren’t sitting at the assigned table during dinner, so I feel those family members were not happy sitting next to them.
Good thing is that I found so many strangers who gave me wonderful verses. They were my angels.
I just hope my kids see through the hypocrisy of it all.
The broken clay pot item lit the parody fire in me (OMG did it ever) — unfortunately I have too much to get done before I go on vacation.
Instead I’ll rerun my favorite Jesus Cheater parody from 2020 about the Falwells:
(to the tune of “Smooth” — music by Santana, lyrics by Jerry Falwell Jr.)
Man, he’s a hot one
And he’s so youthful, he could be our son
Well, we got together and agreed he’d be the one
As he cleaned our pool
Our little panda, our sexy Giancarlo Granda
He’s the reason we’re quitting
Our religious school
But if you said:
“How ’bout that godly life?”
I’d say: “Who cares? Please bang my wife!”
I will sit right here, and watch the bums and tits”
Cuz we’re hypocrites
And it really don’t matter what people say
I know Jesus will forgive us as long as we pray
The only thing that matters is that students pay, yeah
Give me your bucks, take my word, and just forget about it
I can hear Carlos’ guitar in my head as I read this. Oh man, can that man play.
Maybe I’m strange. Yes, I can’t stand ANY form of virtue signalling, and pastors who do the very thing they preach against is a particularly heinous form of hypocrisy.
But my faith has never been shaken. It is personal, and doesn’t rely on the unrelenting disasters of human frailties. I get that there are terrible, terrible people out there, and some of them seek power over others, whether it be in the form of politics, religion, position at their place of employment.
Honestly, I don’t know how people without a personal faith (not one driven by the pop pastor du jour) make it through some of the horrific things that get thrown at us. Call me weak, but I lean into my faith during such disasters, and I try to hold hands with others going through the same thing.
I believe there are wonderful pastors and people out there. I chose to marry men who didn’t share my values, but pretended to. My bad for believing them. Still, I believe in marriage – not because of some biblical edict, but because (ideally) it reminds each individual that they are committed to another, and it protects their children. In an ideal world.
I also feel uncomfortable talking too much about my faith, so will leave it at that. I am so, so grateful for CL and ALL of CN for holding MY hand when I was in the agony of discovery. I don’t care if you are religious or not, you are a huge blessing to me.
“Honestly, I don’t know how people without a personal faith (not one driven by the pop pastor du jour) make it through some of the horrific things that get thrown at us. Call me weak, but I lean into my faith during such disasters, and I try to hold hands with others going through the same thing.”
Speaking for myself, it’s about radical acceptance, like with accepting the FW is a hopeless case. I accept that the human race is doomed. I can feel somewhat better only by doing what I can to try to slow down the killing of our planet, while still knowing those efforts are wasted because not enough people have been doing that and it’s now too late. I’m for letting go of impossible dreams, as long as you don’t become apathetic and still try. Not with a FW, since they absolutely aren’t worth trying to redeem, but with humanity and the earth we depend upon.
Your way of coping does not make you weak. Many people need that kind of support. It’s only human.
Ivy, thank you, this has many echoes for me. One of the saddest things for me was realising how very far apart we really were spiritually; it’s not quite the same as realizing the lack of shared values. My own faith became deeper and more secure, a lot more intimate, while I realised his must have been shallow. He betrayed our God as well as me.
I hear you, ILC. My faith is really important to me also, but it has suffered lately with so much of American Christianity being inappropriately conflated with current day politics.
I also struggled mightily when I was subject to a fire and brimstone homily about the evils of homosexuality from a deacon who I know fucked the baby sitter.
Im taking a break from church until I find somewhere that feels sane. In the mean time, I trudge along serving those I believe God put in my path for me to serve.
It bothers me that churches just accept these dirtbags who do things like fuck the babysitter. That’s why I don’t go to church. I think he should have been run the fuck out for that. I don’t get how people can keep going and listening to someone like that.
I’ve always felt that CIS Christians should clean their own house before haranguing the gay community…we’re supposed to clean the planks from our own eyes before getting critical on the specks in someone else’s. They probably think, “At least I’m not as bad as…[some other group.]
Too bad the Christian community elected to nail the Law to the cross; under Jewish Law, both the adulterer and his AP would be killed for their transgression. By forgiving their own sins, people including “Carl” are doing what only God/Jesus has the right to do. God/Jesus might forgive them for adultery and whatnot, but attempts to make oneself a god surely still get a heavenly frown. Maybe not a one-way trip to hell, but arguably a pretty severe punishment (forgiveness never meant zero consequences; people are warned that they will reap what they sow. And repentance has to be real to get any points.
But what the asshats do is on them. We only have to keep our own noses clean. There are many of us Christians who have been unchurched for decades, but remember, we are the church, we don’t “go to church.” Everywhere I’ve gone, I’ve encountered people who believe in God but not in organized religion. I encourage the random believing men (taxi driver, construction worker…) and invite the believing women to a private bible study focus on whatever topic etc. they’re interested in. That’s sweet fellowship. I think it counts.
And there is a lot of great teaching online, available in the style and along the bent you prefer. You can donate to them to sustain and broaden their ministry. Chances are slim, but go ahead and look for a church building where you will “be fed” if you like. I’m looking now for a local church to attend if “the guvment” outlaws attendance again, but otherwise I’m happy with my multiple small home groups, and my encouraging others – Christian or not – along the way. Life is hard; faith helps.
Don’t go to church, just be the church, and God will be there for you.
I want to add that I would leave that particular church, unless the pastor was fired post-haste. I prefer one who shares, and lives out, my values.
Greg Locke, with bonus points for saying his ex-wife was crazy, chopping off her hair and all and threatening suicide. https://pulpitandpen.org/2018/08/07/pastor-greg-locke-adultery-in-gods-eyes-marries-church-secretary/
Why yes ma’am, my eX is a classic and ordinary everyday Jesus cheater (he’s not a pastor).
Met him at church, married in church, did lots of church ministry together, attended church together for decades. Alone with me, he was not interested in discussing the faith or related topics. Around Christian friends, church people, oh yes, he was mR. armchair theologian, mR. interested in Christian topics. He would try so hard to ‘talk the talk’. His ‘walking the walk’ consisted of working very hard to be seen as “such a great guy” to the outside world.
But all the time, as I was assuming that we were on the same page about things like, oh, our Christian marriage vows, and trusting him that he was honest and sincere, (like he claimed), he was living his secret double life, dating co-workers and visiting prostitutes, cash (and condoms?) in hand.
For me, this has rattled my trust in and good opinion of men and has destroyed my identity (which i liked) as a married woman in a trusting relationship with a good man (so I thought). It has not, fortunately, messed with my faith. Personally for me I think that his behavior, fakery, deception, betrayal, is all about the selfishness and evil that he chose. To me his actions do not reflect on God’s character or trustworthiness.
My Jesus cheater eX is like Judas. This is a theme in the gospels. There will be fakers who love money and selfish pleasures more than God / more than you — and they will betray you. With a kiss.
I feel a mighty Amen stirring, ready to be shouted out loud!
Wow! Please pray for the FW Pastor who has an addiction for sausage slinging!!
That was some pretty amazing word salad usage mixed with some “poor me” dressing and kibble croutons!!
Please forgive me, but still send me money to use for my extramarital trips to Greece while my faithful wife prays for me!
I hope he is struck down with a heavenly lightning bolt!
Chris – please leave that sad excuse of a man!
it seems to me that megachurches don’t have much oversight, and that’s a recipe for abuses of all kinds, mostly financial. but an oversight committee manned by women? that could work–
You really still have faith in women being good people? I don’t. After all the women who helped my ex betray me while pretending to be friends to my face and laughing about my abuse and pain behind my back… I see women as just as corrupt as men.
I’ve known predatory women. These were women who enjoyed the “challenge” of a married man. I’m not certain where the xFW’s OW fit, but I do know she approached him first. Whatever. He jumped in with both feet.
It might sound messed up but honestly, them screwing him is a lesser evil to me than seeking me out to pretend to be my friend, getting involved in my family, with my child, etc. That’s just so evil and sadistic to me. Like why? They could have just left me alone. I never did anything to them. And maybe men do this too but I don’t hear about men screwing a guy’s wife and then seeking out the husband and becoming friends with him out of some perverse pleasure they get from it. But that’s what these women did to me, and I’ve met other women who had the same thing happen to them. It’s really evil. It’s even worse than the cheating to me, it definitely did more damage to me and my life.
I agree…there is something especially perverse in entering your life and posing as benevolent characters while they abuse you. It is evil. My experience if that was very limited, 2 of them were at Cheaters retirement ceremony, shook my hand and smiled in my face. One of them claimed to be SUCH good friends with him but (while he was still alive) I confronted her about asking him to dinner when she knew I would don’t be there…she knew I was on to her and she had the decency to not come to his funeral. I hope her stomach flips in mortification/shame whenever she thinks of him/me.
Oversight is only as good as the people doing it, I’m afraid. I escaped a cult run by men receiving “oversight” by all their mistresses. These women are their loudest defenders amid all the bad press the cult’s been receiving (including allegations of rape).
Pickmes will happily enable predators and throw other women under the bus.
Those types of churches are generally driven by the popularity of the pastor, and have an unfortunate tendency to implode. In my city, the people who seem to be attracted to them drift around from church to church, looking for the newest, the latest, the greatest. Denominational churches usually have committees that do oversee things like personnel, finances, missions, etc. I’m in the PCUSA, so am on the outdoor stair-luge to hell, according to a few more conservative denominations. Whatever. I am grateful for the people in it.
I worked for 3 private colleges with links to popular religions. I was surrounded by “Christians” in the workplace. Not surprisingly, they behaved just like the people I worked with at a state college. Being educated or being a professed “Christian” or any other religion does not keep you from lying, cheating, stealing, or abusing your power and authority.
Yes, I am more disgusted by those who profess beliefs but do not practice them. Yes, I realize that churches and schools, and the military, cops and firefighters are all vocations that seem to attract many predators. They are rich hunting grounds for human predators.
It is sad that you cannot count on others to be who they say they are, but I have developed a healthy disrespectful attitude for labels and authority figures. I act respectful to those who have shown me respect and honesty. I play “Watch, Wait, and See” with nearly everyone I meet. It is my way of establishing and upholding my boundaries. It took experiencing a lot of heartache and disappointment, and pain to get to where I am, but it is mighty fine to have finally arrived.
I’ve written about this before, but here we go again. I’ve been married to three Jesus Cheaters. (OK, I’m a slow learner.).
I was disillusioned with Protestant churches, largely due to handsy preachers and my female relatives who denied and discounted my experiences. Those same female relatives said they’d disown me if I married a Catholic. So I married a Catholic. (No, they didn’t disown me.). At first, the Catholic church seemed so different and so comfortable, but now, 40-some years later, I’m just as disillusioned with Catholic clergy.
My husband Greg was assistant music director for his church, the church organist, the church pianist and spent an awful lot of time consulting with the choir director, the music director and playing for choir practice. I sat in church alone every other Sunday (I’m a nurse — I worked every other weekend) while he was in the choir loft, doing his thing. And then one day I caught him with our downstairs neighbor, Miss Alice in Dairyland. (It’s a thing in my home state.). As it turned out, he had also slept with various co-workers (his, mine and ours), his boss’s wife, the woman he rear-ended at a stop sign, the choir director, a few sopranos and an alto or two, Sister Margaret the nun who was music director (AND) had led our pre-Cana classes and also with my sister. All the while professing to be such a good Catholic and member of the church leadership. I temporarily parted ways with the church and my sister, and permanently parted ways with Greg. His sister remains a dear friend, and his father wrote to me faithfully once a month until he died. Greg continues to be a cheater and a leader in his church.
He slept with your sister and the nun Sister Margaret?! While your FW may profess his religious righteousness here on earth, if there is a hell to burn in that is probably where he is going to end up…
I’m sorry you went through that, especially with your sister. That’s so awful.
I did have to laugh about the whole disowning you for marrying a Catholic threat though. My dad’s family is Catholic and my mom’s is Lutheran. This was such an issue I was not permitted to formally join either church and ended up going to both of them regularly. I remember one of my cousins on my dad’s side getting upset and screaming at me that I was going to hell because I told him they were the same thing. Catholic church had more ceremony and theater but that was about it. The differences were asininely minor for them to make such a big deal out of it.
Did he literally ask people to send money so he can keep hanging out in Greece?
Yes he did.
“I suppose it didn’t start on any specific date, but as my heart wandered from the sweet closeness of Jesus, my tendency towards filling it with other things grew.”
Filling it with other things!!!
Holy euphemism!
Riddle: What grows and then fills?
Oh, and who believes that he doesn’t know the specific date he started having sex with someone other than his wife? I call BS. He’s even lying in this sad-sausage fauxpology.
“I suppose it didn’t start on any specific date” – what a quaint way to say he’s been lying and cheating for as long as he can remember. 🤮
“my heart wandered from the sweet closeness of Jesus”
Your “heart”? Is that what you’re calling that organ?
I once was a member of a church where the minister was found to be having an affair with a married congregant he was “counseling”. She subsequently became wife number 4. She gave custody if her child to her husband when they got divorced.
Guess how the minister got wife number three? The same way! He was certainly a serial cheater. I was amazed at the number of people who thought we just forgive him and just jet him stay as our minister! Fortunately cooler heads won out and he was ousted from the church. But allowed to go somewhere else to another position within the national organization. That was appalling to me.
Had a rabbi that did the same thing. Cheated on 3 of his wives and is now married to victim #4.
Mighty Momma, you’re not alone, it IS very discombobulating.
If someone’s dedicated a lot of their life to religion, you’d think it means they share the religion’s values and spend their time self-reflecting… but it’s not so. The disordered are drawn to religion because, paradoxically, it offers a scary amount of perks for evil people:
-A free pass to do whatever they want, at least in their own minds (“I’m not bad, I’ve been saved!”)
-A shiny image for the community (“She’s a good Christian! Of course she’s a good person!”)
-Instant authority (“He’s a pastor! She teaches bible school and leads the choir!”)
-Easy access to new victims (both within the congregation and the community at large)
My father’s siblings loudly told anyone who’d listen that they were Good Christians – even as they abused my grandmother and stalked my family. My uncle did drugs, stole money, couldn’t hold down a job, and frequented strip clubs… yet he taught bible school and considered himself a God-fearing man.
When he died, hordes of strangers left eulogies on Facebook about what a good guy he was. Apparently they didn’t know he’d burned every bridge and been run out of his hometown, that his own family wasn’t talking to him, that he had 2 police reports against him for harassment, that he stole the jewelry off his own mother’s corpse in the hospital after she died.
Shallow acquaintances were swayed by the Good Christian bullshit. The people who truly knew him wanted nothing to do with him, after many decades of abuse.
Are we surprised? Just another faker using God & Jesus as their “get out of jail free” card. One of my neighbours presents herself as this godly, Christian woman. She told me & all our other neighbours for TWO years that she was going to do all these kindly things for one of our very ill neighbours & guess what? not once did she ever make it over to see him before he died. Then she had the audacity to make his death about her “and I never got to see him before he died, boo hoo”. I steer clear of her now & she knows it. And I steer clear of anyone that name drops religion. IMO, it’s all just a smoke screen for shady characters.
Here’s me again — I have lots of Jesus Cheater stories.
My second husband, Tom, was a former Benedictine monk. He left before his final vows because he “discovered he liked women.” I met him on a blind date set up by a colleague of mine who had gone to school with him (we were all nurses.) Tom was divorced, ostensibly because his wife, a physical therapist had “run off with one of her patients.” I was divorced from my prolific Jesus Cheater. Tom and I dated for two years during which he seemed like the perfect boyfriend, a devout Catholic, and an all-round good man. Damn, I sure can pick them! We were married on the second anniversary of our first date.
The day after our wedding, Tom announced, “Now that we’re married, I don’t have to be on my best behavior any more.” I thought he was joking about flatulence while in the same room. He wasn’t. He was selfish and abusive — verbal abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, and physical abuse. When we argued, he charmingly threatened to kill me. His other favorite threat was to go out and “FUCK something.” (Fuck someTHING?) I separated from him twice, but, on the advice of marriage counselors (found through Catholic Family Services) and a priest (marriage is a sacrament) I let him move back in twice. This was in the mid 80s. I believed the counselors when they told me it was safe to let him move back in.
I left him for the final time when he strangled me into unconsciousness and dumped me on the highway with the clothes on my back and the dog who jumped out of the car after me. Oh yes, and the cheating? I didn’t clock it because I was looking for other women, not for men. Turns out he was fucking Father “Steve”, the parish priest he’d met while a monk at the monastery. Only, according to the priest, it wasn’t infidelity because it wasn’t sex. Sex is between a man and a woman for the purpose of procreation. Since there was no chance of procreation between a former monk and a priest, it wasn’t sex, and therefore not infidelity. I, however, was committing infidelity in the eyes of God because although I had divorced my first prolific Jesus Cheater, I had not obtained an annulment through the church.
Ironically, our divorce became final within a week of the fourth anniversary of our wedding, the sixth anniversary of our meeting. Even more ironically, this didn’t turn me permanently off the Catholic church.
And btw, your story always amazes me. It sounds like you survived a violent, dangerous cult and it defies odds that you’re still here and making perfect sense. A weaker person might have gone mad. It reminds me of the theme of Rosemary’s Baby– how victims are collectively surrounded, controlled, schemed against, gaslit, etc.
To quote Margaret Atwood, “An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.” Jesus doesn’t make Jesus cheaters cheat, nor does Buddha, the ghost of Elvis, partisan politics or demon whisky for that matter. Are we supposed to abandon every institution to its worst representatives?
I think this letter deserves the “muh dick” treatment (some variation on “muh coochie” can be used for she-FW missives).
Dear Chump,
Muh dick is an addict. Muh dick has struggled with addiction for the last 5 or 6 years. I suppose it didn’t start on any specific date, but as I wandered from the sweet closeness of muh dick, my tendency towards filling muh dick with other things grew. Those things muh dick has been looking for my whole life — affirmation, affection, acceptance — I know where they truly come from. I do. No one but muh dick. But for some reason, muh dick didn’t always accept that and instead, looked for it elsewhere. To the great detriment of my own soul and to the great harm of those closest to me. Muh dick is ever before me and makes me sick.
Muh dick has hurt the one I love most – Chris – terribly. Our marriage is struggling and has been during this whole time. She’s remained faithfully with muh dick, but muh dick has taken a toll on her heart, and that devastates muh dick. Please pray for her and for muh dick.
Muh dick has also hurt our three children. They are sad and confused by muh dick. And of course, our very closest friends who know are disappointed but (mostly) hanging in there with muh dick, though muh dick has lost some of them.
One of the gazillion things that makes muh dick hard is that I know the right answers. And they are right. Pray and read the Bible and stay close to muh dick and his community of friends. Those are correct. “Don’t do it” is a classic, and…totally true. The fruit of muh dick and the gifts of muh dick in greater abundance. Dick.I’ve counseled people in muh dick's position. I know what to tell them and I’ve told it to myself. I’ve brought muh dick to a bunch of counselors and retreats and talked it through honestly with close friends and my wife. And prayed. And…and…and.
But I think I’m learning there’s something at the root of all that that muh dick has missed in the past. Desperation. Total brokenness. Not the good, dicky, humble kind that we say about the man whose life shines of muh dick. Nope. Just the gritty, unsightly, broken dick type. Humbled, not humble. Fallen, but not yet back on his feet. Dead, but not yet resurrected. Just on the ground in tears. Sobbing, hurting, and often without much hope. That’s where muh dick is at right now.
And telling you all? Scares the hell outta muh dick. Some of my good friends reading this will be wondering what I’m talking about, because I haven’t shared this even with them. Many of you don’t know me personally, but I feel like I owe it to you all to share muh dick. Some will say, “About time, you hypocrite,” and they’d be right to say it. It is one of the — maybe THE — hardest thing muh dick has ever done to write this email. You trusted muh dick, and muh dick let you down.
But there it is. I’ve chosen not to go into details. Not to exaggerate or diminish what I’ve done and what muh dick has become. I am still loved dearly by muh heavenly dick and even (amazingly) by my wife. Even if feeling and receiving that love is not easy right now. Muh dick is getting some good help. Turning a page or two in the book of my life. Hope still springs. Muh dick is not gone. I still have a future and one where I am whole and healthy and fully alive in muh dick. (And with Chris).
Some of you send money to muh dick from time to time. You pray for muh dick. You support muh dick's endeavors into the Middle East and now in Greece. Muh dick is grateful for that, and we have seen muh dick do amazing things over the years (despite me being a broken clay pot). If it matters, we haven’t taken money given here for personal salary for about ten years. We only use it for things directly related to our 501(c)3 purpose of sharing muh dick. But still, you give out of trust, and muh dick has broken that. Muh dick has learned to manipulate and control my environment in some pretty sad ways over these years, and that breaks my heart as much as anything.
I love and respect and appreciate all of you who read these emails — friends, acquaintances, or just subscribed. Muh dick gives you its heartfelt apology for not being the dick it's been created to be. Forgive muh dick when and if you can or want. If you reply to this email, muh dick will receive your reply. Hopefully one day muh dick will continue writing dick-inspired emails here. Until then…
With love and in the spirit of repentance,
Muh Dick
“MUH DICK.” 🤣🤣🤣 Too hilarious & spot on! Thank you for the much-needed chuckle, HoaC. 🤣🤣
“The fruit of muh dick and the gifts of muh dick in greater abundance. Dick.”
“Hopefully one day muh dick will continue writing dick-inspired emails here.”
😆Dying!
This version was much easier to read. Thank you.
I have to give credit to the anonymous Redditer who came up with this. I think it’s the perfect antidote to gaslighting– cuts through the confusing bull and gets straight to the point: cheaters and their sacred junk.
My FW of 29 years was a Jesus cheater. He was on staff at our church, although not in a pastoral role. I was on the worship team. Everyone thought we had the model marriage. Other church staff would tell me how he would sing my praises in their staff meetings and tell them how much he loved me. All the while, he was cheating with prostitutes and frequenting massage parlors. It still makes me sick to my stomach knowing he’d come home after being with prostitutes and have sex and/or BJs with me. I’ll never forget the mortification of having to get STD tested.
He left for one of his massage women three months I retired. An early retirement that he encouraged me to take, despite my misgivings. Although my misgivings were financial, not worries over a divorce. He packed up his shit, turned the cameras off on the house and left like a thief in the night while I was across the country for six weeks caring for my sick mother. I was absolutely blindsided. In shock, I called my pastor. Pastor was shocked too. Everyone in the congregation was shocked. Pastor said FW told him the breakup was planned and we’d been living as sexless roommates for the past 10 years. A bald-faced lie! I did not know he was leaving and we did not have a sexless marriage. FW told me later he blamed God for his “sex addiction”. 🙄
That is just the barest of Cliff notes on his betrayal. There’s so much more, too much to get into here. It was truly despicable and I didn’t deserve any of it. All done by a so-called Christian man.
I got the marital home in the divorce and had to go back to work. Fortunately I was able to find a good job at a great company quickly. A blessing, at my age. He married the Chinese massage girl he left for and bought her a house in the same neighborhood where we bought our first starter home 25 years ago. I gave it six months. It’s been four years. I have no idea if he’s happy. I hope he isn’t. Obviously not yet at meh, but I’ve stopped waiting for the karma bus to arrive.
I haven’t started dating yet. Don’t know if I ever will. I think I still have PTSD. Don’t know if I’ll ever be able to trust anyone again, Christian or not. I still go to church and I am still a musician on the worship team, but at a new church. My life is peaceful now, although I do get lonely sometimes. But I’d rather have a peaceful, albeit lonely life than live with a lying, cheating snake. I’m so glad he’s gone and I’m no longer being made a fool of and having my health put at risk.
He married a “happy endings” sex worker? If he was assuming this made him “Christlike,” in the sixties the church attempted to retract the depiction of Mary Magdalene as a former prostitute or adulteress. I read there’s probably more scriptural evidence that she may have been his wife but no reference to sin of any kind, just possible confusion with another woman/sinner who was said to wash his feet with her hair. Magdalene was also estimated to be at least twenty years older than Jesus so there’s not much of a biblical reenactment in age-gapping in the other direction. In any case, Jesus was never Magdalene’s “client.” So much for your ex’s biblical fan fiction. I doubt there’s a “happy ending” for anyone involved except you, the liberated hostage.
“He married a “happy endings” sex worker? ”
Yep, he sure did. My daughter, who is also NC with FW, heard from one of his sisters that Ho wife is still working at the massage parlor, telling FW that she no longer provides the “extra” services. LOL!! According to this sister, he has been trying to get her and her co-workers to “go legit” and get jobs in respectable places, like hotels or high end spas. Apparently they are not interested in going legit because providing the extra services pays too well.
I hope he worries every day about how many happy endings and BJs she’s giving and that it eats him alive.
I’m so sorry. I can relate to some of your story. My ex also talked about how much he loved me to everyone who would listen while at the same time making up lies about problems in our relationship. People thought we had a sexless relationship too. I wish it had been because I agree with you that all the STD testing was horrible and humiliating. It also meant I got very little support which made it all so much harder. Because people could “see his side” and clearly “he tried so hard for years and he loved you but what was he supposed to do?”
It’s a special kind of evil to do this to people. It’s so insidious. Not just to betray us but to put so much effort into creating a facade to destroy us more efficiently when they decide they are done with us.
I was married to the same, told people how much he loved me and at the same time made up lies about problems in our relationship and his serious concern for my mental well being.., how difficult it was for him.. Everyone sided with him because of how much he suffered. He portrayed himself as a great guy who loved his mentally deranged wife but just couldn’t take her abuse any longer…, he had tried everything…
Pure evil..,
I’m so sorry you went through all of this Nemesis. It is truly heartbreaking and I feel it.
There’s a verse that reads, “as a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.” Your ex isn’t happy, he’s the same POS he always was. Probably still getting those massages too while you enjoy peace and contentment. Seems like victory to me.
This breaks my heart and also leaves me with awe to your strength.
My ex is a Jesus Cheater. He’s a Marriage and Family Therapist and used to be a pastor. I find it hilarious actually. He left me for the OW. I remember asking him at some point how he could do this when we shared the same faith. His response was that he lost his faith. (how convenient …) I remember barking back at him, “Like a penny?!” It just amazed me how disposable I was along with his “faith.” I no longer believe that he has/had a faith. I think he uses faith as a tool to manipulate and control others. After he moved in with OW, he told me that he started praying again. I just laughed. God cannot be mocked or fooled, and his actions clearly reflect his heart – then and now.
As to my own faith. This whole shit show has strengthened my faith. There was a time when I believed I was not holy enough; not good enough; and only God’s mercy was with me. Through this experience, I learned that I am the one that is God’s chosen. I am the one that he saved from a disaster marriage. I remember I was standing in the kitchen as my ex said he was leaving me; it seemed like the world dimmed somehow and I had a deep knowing that God was with me. It still rocked my world to the core, but I am on the upward swing, speeding towards meh. God is in this mess and helping me to turn the pain into something beautiful. I now know how to sit with others in their pain, how to show up when others have need, and I have an expanded ability to share and show love. In the end, being free from the constant devaluation has been bliss.
My ex is a LMFT, too. Unfortunately, she still claims to be a Christian. Glad you found strength in your faith. My experience, too, drove me deeper into the arms of my Jesus.
“After he moved in with OW, he told me that he started praying again. I just laughed. God cannot be mocked or fooled, and his actions clearly reflect his heart – then and now.”
Much like my ex. he even tried to be a preacher after he married the whore. He crashed and burned on that as well as everything else he tried. God will indeed not be mocked. Also the ex ran out of people to lie to, he was exposed.
Just to add, I get how odd my experience is and I do not share from any sense of mightiness in this aspect. It was more a shock to me that I would tuck into faith when I had previously believed my ex a Godly man and I thought I was lucky to have him.
I hold zero judgement for anyone questioning or choosing to walk their own path away from faith. Each path to healing is sacred and will take its own route.
Mine is, but I don’t think she attends anything anymore. For me, the divorce helped me grow in my faith and to see how it was a really good thing.
I know there are many wounds from the church, but I am able to separate people from the message of Christ.
And I guess I will disagree with painting all mega churches a bad or corrupt as I do attend one and they have effective ministries and outreach, and very good oversight and a biblical basis. I have attended small churches too and watched them burn through pastors because they rely so heavily on them, and they did have scandals that you see in mega churches. You don’t hear about them due to their size. The church body isn’t perfect, only Christ is.
Please know I dont make any attempt to impair your anonymity, but this topic leads me to share that your screen name has left me wondering since I first saw your posts here. I wonder if you are 1. a really brave person using your real name? 2. A Christian using a pseudonym of a person you respect ? 3. Chose a name with an inner meaning that helps you cope even if none of us get it. Any of those things are fine and you need not explain….just sharing that I noticed and Im curious sort.
I am a former Evangelical who kind of enjoyed some of my mega church experiences. I met some good Calvary Chapel people (in California in the 80s) before some of their folks caused scandal. I didnt leave at the time because I saw fault in Evangelicalism but because my then-husband serial-cheater was Catholic and refused to engage in Christianity in any form until I converted. I realize now that it was likely just an effort to distract me so he could cheat, but joke was on him, I came to love the Catholic Church and I still love that parts which didnt abuse children and advocate electing ghastly people to public office. God is still very real to me and He guides me daily.
Yes, it is my real name and I know anyone visiting can look for me based on my letter and name. I am not afraid if she ever finds out because I am my own individual with agency, and she will not control me, nor anyone else she may be with.
I’m sorry you are here, but am glad you found the CL and CN. Ministry continues, sometimes in unexpected ways, certainly ways we never anticipated.
It most definitely has, I have more time to help others and to see them with compassion, to meet them where they are at. I now have a calling with divorce care and other ministries and I never expected that.
Wow, I respect you for it too. Every once in a while a poster here will make this choice. I choose anonymity because many in my life would be hurt if they knew some of the truths that I chose to keep from them and now that my Cheater is dead, he cant answer for himself (even f he would not hove done so with any integrity). Speaking truth is the only way we can flip this narrative.
“Mine is, but I don’t think she attends anything anymore. For me, the divorce helped me grow in my faith and to see how it was a really good thing.”
Same here. I knew it was on him not on others. I was taught to treat others as I want to be treated. I did that with him, but he threw it in my face. That didn’t mean that the concept was wrong, only that he was wrong.
I go to doctors and put my life in their hands. I trust that most of them are good honest brokers, much like any other group, despite some pretty nasty things that some doctors have done. I use Doctors as an example because much like leaders in a faith, they have a pretty high calling.
My x was a Baptist deacon. We served the church together for 15 years before the shit hit the fan.
Interestingly, I heard a lot of him in the above letter. Maybe it’s not that interesting because so many cheaters are like this, but-
The bottomless pit of affirmation and affection. Mine filled it by triangulating the teen girls around him. He said he should have found that affirmation in Christ, but the church (our church at least) teaches that God hates us because of our sin.
To be clear, I am not excusing the cheaters behavior, I am showing how the church is also guilty.
He talked about advice and counseling. Pastors are not trained to counsel. They are trained to root every problem and solution in the Bible, a Bible they mistranslate and take out of context. But it doesn’t matter what the Bible says anyway, since a cheaters gonna do what a cheaters gonna do.
I asked mine if he’d want another man doing to our daughter what he was doing with the teen girls, and he said no. But that didn’t stop him. It didn’t compute.
He got kicked out of church, we lost our home and the kids and I had to move away.
Purity culture taught men in the church that they were created by God to lust after women. And in doing so, the church gave men a free pass to act out sexually without restraint. Without character check. You won’t hear it preached against unless they’re blaming the women for tempting them.
Because-
(please know this is sarcasm:)
Men are men. Broken. God “created them that way.” So forgive. Stay friends. Keep them in ministry when they repent. And please send money.
The Preacher Boys podcast with Eric S. Gives many survivor stories of sexual abuse in the church. It is rampant in the types of churches I was in.
“… but it’s taken a toll on her heart, and that devastates me.” (Because she may have a sadz, but I’m absolutely DEVASTATED. I’m the REAL victim here. She gets all the sympathy and I look like the bad guy, but really I’m a hurting, timid, forest creature, a victim of the loneliness and overwhelming need to f*** strange that has engulfed me).” #pityme #itsnotwhatidid #itsyourreaction
“It has also hurt our three children. They are sad and confused by me.”
(Some nebulous “it” has hurt our three children. What was the “it” in question? A stray bolt of lightning? A rogue wave? Pennywise the Clown? It’s so hard to tell. They are sad and confused by me. The reasons escape me. I’m so confounded by their dismay that I have no choice but to express my feelings about it in passive voice.)
#sorryifyoufeelhurt
He has “chosen not to go into details.” 🤮🙄
Yeah, I wonder why it’s confusing when you refuse to discuss what you did, in even age appropriate ways. Nowhere in the letter does it say what he did and with whom.
“Now I tend not to trust any of it”
“Do other chumps feel this way?”
Yes.
I am Jewish and my faith was always my comfort with services being a safe place to rejoice and pray. The music would always lift my soul. The religious holidays were always festive, happy times where I hosted huge family gatherings. I took my children to Friday evening services for years because their dad was always “working late”.
Now I can’t even attend services or celebrate religious holidays like I used to. The biggest holidays of the year find me at home and alone by choice. I lost the big family as they were all “his”. Even when other people invite me to join them I can’t. The hypocrisy just goes right to my heart. The words have become meaningless. It actually angers me to read the prayers.
It has been a huge loss but I have found that same comfort from within me. I can hold myself up. I can be counted upon. I am my own savior. I alone hold the answers to my own survival.
Forgive me if this offends anyone or is sacrilegious. I mean no offense. I just know my own journey.
I was raised agnostic so nothing in what you write offends me but I respect the faculty of faith and feel sad that you were robbed of something that once held comfort and meaning for you. I hate it when good people are driven away from institutions leaving the institutions in the hands of all the jerks and hypocrites. I hope one day you find a better, less hypocritical community to share your beliefs and ideals with.
Frankly I think there are equal numbers of ideological hypocrites among agnostics and organized atheists so I don’t assume any niche or category guarantees integrity and character. I’ll take the good souls wherever I find them regardless of group identification, faith, culture, etc. A great book on the subject of belief and nonbelief is journalist Chris Hedges “When Atheism Becomes Religion” which is really less about about secular vs. nonsecular than the stark difference between “faith/belief” and “cult.” It’s quite brilliant and inspiring and includes a stellar bibliography for an array of lit, philosophy, theology and political analysis. I went on to read almost every author Hedges quotes or refers to and I felt like scales had fallen from my eyes. My kids’ music professor read the book and is now working on the same reading list. So much fodder for conversation.
Not offensive at all. So sorry you went through this. Congrats on the mightiness!
I have a Jesus story:
My ex was my ex for a long time (15 years) when he had a situation (the FBI is part of the story) that was so bad a former girlfriend of his took him back and got him baptized in a mega church around here. (Google ‘not a sermon just a thought’ to find the church).
Eventually (according to my daughters) they fell in love and wanted to get married. But … this is a church that does not believe in divorce unless there’s infidelity. The girlfriend had 3 ex-husbands living and the pastor said she had to return to her first husband. She was not allowed to marry my ex.
Next thing you know, ex-husband is getting married to the church secretary, where very inappropriately, my ex told his daughters that his 40 yo wife-to-be was a virgin and they were waiting for the big night. My daughters were 13 and 15 at the time of this stupid tidbit of information. In my mind, I wondered how my ex got permission to marry her given that he was the cheater in our marriage.
Then I got a call from the ex-girlfriend. She was very upset that they couldn’t be married and even more upset when he cheated on her with the church secretary. She finally got to the point of her call: my ex and the church secretary were allowed to get married because I was the cheater and therefore the divorce was okay. I remember laughing out loud and saying he was the cheater not me. The upset ex-girlfriend seemed to have known that and wanted me to visit the pastor and tell him that my ex-husband was the adulterer and not me. Why visit the pastor? The ex-girlfriend wanted to make it so that his planned marriage to the virginal church secretary would no longer be permitted. I declined as gracefully as I could saying that felt like I was stepping over a line.
The only line it’s stepping over is the line between his mountain of lies and the truth. Seriously, by not speaking up, you’re giving him a free pass to treat the secretary the same way he treated you. Put yourself in her shoes… if it were you, wouldn’t you want someone to have told you the truth about his lying untrustworthy rear?
Just give it some thought.
My fw sat beside me at church, prayed, did the amens etc; all the while cheating and lying behind my back.
This had nothing to do with Jesus, or any other Christian who was actually living a Christian life. Like me. It had to do with him loving his sin and himself more than anything else. He was the fake, not the church, or the other folks in the church.
Mine did too, but he’d stand with his head down the entire time. He never looked up.
Now when I see a guy like that in church, I keep thinking “he’s a cheater!”
Jesus Cheaters describes my XW and her main AP perfectly. Emails she left accessible describe their motel meetups of reading Christian marriage books together, praying and then drunken sex. A twist on being filled with the Spirit I guess. In the morning it was off to his Pentecostal church with the celebrity preacher.
Meanwhile, her brother the Baptist pastor who married us and repeatedly tried to get me “saved” to his standards, won’t return my calls. None of her family ever once contacted me, despite being married into the family for 20+ years.
Personally, the divorce sparked a faith journey for me. The experience enabled me to let go of encrusted Christian cultural baggage and get a fresh start. After I remarried we led divorce recovery groups in churches and heard a lot of Jesus Cheater horror stories. Also a lot of stories about how horribly people experiencing cheating were treated by their church. It is dismaying sometimes.
“Filled with the spirit…”
Love it!
I’m callin it wolves🐺 in sheep🐑 clothing. They are not only in the churches, no, they are EVERYWHERE!! My first cheater left the fold to cheat..yes he had a higher standard. My second cheater, cheated mult times but only fessed to once. Repented with a huge fake apology publicly, asked for REBAPTISM, this was granted. So with his spanking shinning Online Christian” front”girlfriend , soon to be wifetress in the front row, AND
with a protection order IN PLACE from my lawyer and halfway through our year long divorce process, he was rebaptized. With live coverage and the agreement of 2 pastors, one elder and the visiting evangelist. 9 weeks after the final divorce decree, July 1 my cheater send out wedding announcements and hand carried them to our church lobby to give out to my church members for Sept 7th nuptials. It will be in a garden near by.I am broken hearted to hear some of my church friends are going. I think it’s for the Italian meat balls at the reception. But I am not shaken in my faith, in fact I am stronger. Why? Because I had to peek behind the curtain like Dorothy on The Wizard of Oz, and these weak people and cheating liars are not my God. No one can take my faith in GOD away. I stand alone and with you in how I was blind and now I see. I will not hold grudges but I will say to myself
..”Duly Noted”..you are no longer a tier 1 husband, you are a zero. You are no longer a tier 1 friend, you are now a level 4 steps down. Protecting myself from preditor “friends”, church members, doctors, astronauts, people in suits, people preaching, singing, people in jeans. Going into the world with eyes 👀wide open but NOT MISSING the good and gracious people who are quiet and unnoticed. The pastors that are meek teachers, who do hospital visits and love those who died. There is a bible verse that says the best way to overcome evil is to do good. That is what Tracy and CN are doing every day. Revealing the traits of a cheater( wolves), telling me the TRUTH of what wolves in sheep clothing look like, smell like, sound like and how they present themselves and how they lie and don’t care if they hurt you. It DOES NOT HURT THEM TO HURT YOU. We can’t blame denominations, hospitals, law offices, Food pantries, orphanages, parishes or mission stations for these lying cheaters. They are in every profession. But we can change the narrative, one lying liar at a time. Tracy and CN uncover the underbelly of deception. I am forever a grateful Christian who still loves Jesus, but not the cheaters and flying monkeys. Those people I will let God judge. As for me, I’ll protect myself everywhere. Thank you Tracy and CN. Your feisty language almost stopped me from reading on. What?? The F bomb 17x in one sentence.??? But as an old English word it sadly fits. And I saw the truth right in front of me. You had the play book.and you spoke the truth. After 2 cheaters, IMA BELIEVER. AMEN
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Well said, hear hear! God bless you and all here!
Hey Carl fancy a glass of Chardonnay with that word salad…
“I know what to tell them and I’ve told it to myself”…….. but you still did/do it!
Hellbound for you.
“Some of my good friends reading this will be wondering what I’m talking about, because I haven’t shared this even with them. Many of you don’t know me personally, but I feel like I owe it to you all to share this…”
AND THEN HE NEVER SHARES IT! He never says what it actually IS that he’s talking about. He never says, “I cheated on my wife with parishioners and groomed vulnerable people to serve my selfish wants.”
He even later says, “There it is.” There WHAT is, asshole? You haven’t actually SAID anything.
Exactly! I read the letter and was left wondering “what did you do?”
So many FW rely on other people to fill in the blanks, & if it works for FW, so be it.
The shakedown for money at the end is 🤌
And this sentence makes me certain that he’s been misappropriating donated funds for over a decade: “If it matters, we haven’t taken money given here for personal salary for about ten years. We only use it for things directly related to our 501(c)3 purpose of sharing Jesus.” 🙄
People like this always hide their lies in plain sight.
“The money was just RESTING in my account!”
Line from “Father Ted” on Channel 4/RTÉ
Well, it’s the “spirit of repentence” that counts.
I am reading this sitting in a pew waiting for mass to begin. The pew is in the church where FW had an affair with its Maintenance man. A church where she was a Eucharistic minister know and loved by many. A church that turned on me for a year believing her lies.
I come here to pray for many but mostly I pray for the betrayed. I stayed at this church to humble those who bought her propaganda and remind them that only God judges. I stayed here to humiliate the priest who turned his back on me.
Number one reason though is to pray for the members of Chump Nation.
Good on you, DC.
You are awesome and strong for doing so. I currently stay away to show that I am not in agreement with the crap they are up to but I believe that God does eventually right the direction the Barque of St Peter.
Im sorry the Priest turned his back on you…Im guessing he believed the “its always the mans fault” narrative. Women who know they will be believed and victimize with their lies are really evil.
You are good to pray for CN and I appreciate it.
As best as I can discern, my Cheater was an active Catholic during his entire cheating life. His anger, crankiness, emotional distance, decisional incapacity, and mental health issues were likely caused by living neck-high in cognitive dissonance most days. With years between the abuse and now, I can feel pity for him.
Choosing the sin of adultery and ruining one’s life with it is The Oldest Trick in the Book…as in literally…warnings about it all through scripture – written by people who turned to dust millennia ago – yet their words are plain in the scriptures of every Bible sitting around in nearly every building in our country.
I will never know the inner workings of his sin, repent, confess, pretend to be a husband/dad, get tempted, sin, confess, lather rinse repeat. No wonder he didnt have the emotional energy to be a good husband – that would be exhausting.
Unicorn,
I will remember different people’s stories from here and the FB page and will pray for them as I sit there. I pray because this was the toughest thing I have ever had to deal with. I believe everyone here knows the same pain. I hope the positive energy will reach them.
I love this. Thank you so much as I have been unable to reach out to my church family for support. We were “high profile” at our church and I have not been able to share my situation with anyone due to the fear of backlash from the X. I’m going to join you in lifting up other here.
God love you for this Dr. Chump, I salute your strength and your love for your fellow chumps.
A Eucharistic minister is she? Is she one of these who call themselves “Catholic” but deny the Real Presence, I wonder? That’d be some explanation as to why she’s not averse to committing adultery with a married man anyway! TBH I don’t approve of laity handling Our Lord’s Body and Blood, I was taught that our unconsecrated hands are unfit to touch Him in the Eucharist. I will only receive Him from an ordained priest, and not with my hands!
That’s my belief though, I’m not condemning anyone who receives from lay ministers or in the hand, but I just can’t do it!
Thank you Shadow,
last year a visiting retired priest asked me after mass my story. I told him, criticizing FW’s behavior as a Catholic/child of God giving out the Eucharist while in mortal sin. He rightfully pointed out that although what she did to me was wrong and she was sinning, I don’t know her relationship with God and therefore cannot judge her for handing out the Eucharist while living in mortal sin. He said She may have been in confession regularly before mass. I could find argument in what he said but instead took away it is not for me to Judge her. That is between her and God.
I also prefer to receive from priest for same reasons
That is serious strength to stay and stand up for yourself. I couldn’t do it. I walked away from my entire life. I’m impressed you were able to do it while dealing with the betrayal. It’s definitely not easy.
Last 5 years of my life rival Book of Job. Yesterday was 5th anniversary of cancer diagnosis and the beginning of life unraveling
I hope things are improving for you. Shame on those people for not supporting you. I’ll keep you in my prayers.
I have a kind of reverse story on this topic: atheism to justify serial cheating.
Cheater couldn’t possibly do any treatment for “sex addiction” because all of the addiction treatments used a 12-step program based on a higher power. So it was a no from the get-go.
I still have my wisdom teeth.
When I was a kid, there was a deacon in our church that was famous for being the “handsome player” type, but everyone just dismissed him as “Oh, that’s just Doc Oz.” He was also a dentist, and he was our family dentist. He wouldn’t let my Mom in the exam room, which she never questioned. He was also head of the acolyte program. Kids could become acolytes in the third grade.
He liked anyone female. Women patients with large chests – he would put the dental tools on their chests and then take a long time picking them up and putting them down. Fellow parishioners would get patted, touched, their hair stroked, told they’re beautiful, etc. “Oh, that’s just Doc Oz.” His wife was docile and just smiled and smiled and smiled. Never got mad, never complained. Smoked like a chimney.
He cornered me in the acolyte room. I was seven. I told, like I was taught to in school and my parents made me take it back because “he could lose his medical license.” We didn’t even change dentists. We didn’t change churches. Other girls spoke up, their families left the church. He still wouldn’t let my Mom in the exam room.
One day, I came home to a message on the answering machine. It was his receptionist: “Susannah’s wisdom teeth are coming in, and we need to schedule surgery to take them out.” The last thing I wanted was to be knocked out around that man. I deleted the message, said nothing to my Mom.
That’s my experience with a Jesus cheater. “Oh, that’s just Doc Oz.”
I still have my wisdom teeth.
damn, Im so sorry that happened to you. I hate the “Oh that is just____” excuse for horrible behavior…it is evil in itself.
Well done for that, I suspect you saved yourself from being molested!
I’m appalled by the way he was allowed to commit such vile acts by everyone around him, your parents included.
I hope to God he got prosecuted and imprisoned at some stage?
No. He retired to a cabin in the Rocky Mountains. Life isn’t fair.
I was branded “unstable” and treated as “troubled.” I was the local joke. It took me a long time to realize the problem was him, not my reaction to it.
After I left town and moved away, my eye doctor, band teacher and math teacher were all exposed for inappropriate relationships with children/young girls. They had never tried anything with me. So maybe speaking up saved me from worse.
And you clearly had a lot of wisdom at a young age. I’m just sickened by your story, over all the people who failed you, and I applaud the way you took the action you could in order to protect yourself when no one else did.
Omg. That reads just like something The Rev Cheaterpants would have sent (except, unlike Chumpy Chris, I showed him the door after DDay). But I mean, only a Jesus Cheater could make a confession into a humble-brag acknowledgement of his brokenness. Barf.
Also, because I know chump nation will love this—at a pastors’ wives meeting for the so-conservative LCMS, we were shown an array of sexy bras and advised to step up our game lest our hubbies stray. They were instructed to stay away from porn.
With all due respect, how did you reach adulthood and remain so naive about your fellow Christians? I’m confused by that. See, because as a child I learned about priests raping children and then as a very young adult I learned about the Magdalene laundries and I’m 40 so that was a while ago. And there have been hundreds to thousands of news stories about ministers and pastors of every Christian denomination doing horrible, horrible things.
Did you miss that? How?! I’m sorry to be snarky but I’m a Christian and I get sick of this attitude. Did you really have blinders on or did you blame the victims in all these cases? How does that work? I figured out as a child that you couldn’t just trust people because they say they are Christians, so c’mon. Your worldview and identity needed a good shake, clearly. Hopefully you join us in reality now. You never should have been trusting everybody at your church in the first place. Churches are a great place for con artists and shitty people in general to find victims.
Look for refuge in your faith and relationship with God and with a small group of people who have shown you they are trustworthy, not every dickbag who makes time to sit in the pews so he can work on his bucket list of breaking all ten commandments. Because there are a lot of those dickbags, not just your ex. Now you know they exist, watch out for them. Church is a prime place for them because for some bizarre reason I’ve never been able to figure out, a lot of Christians refuse to accept reality about people (even though the Bible warns us repeatedly about it) and make themselves and their families prime victims for shitheads.
I’m really not trying to be judgy. I felt so stupid early on in the divorce because clearly I wasn’t paying enough attention to reality either. I had to accept my part in that, not seeing the truth. I lost my faith early on in my marriage because I couldn’t have more children, then regained it when I realized my ex was a pedophile who would have just raped them. And I started reading the bible again and had a lot of moments where I thought “dammit, I should have seen that coming. dammit, this issue is so old it’s in the friggin’ bible.” These people aren’t new. You don’t have to give up your faith because a bad person did something bad to you. Read your bible, you’ll find your ex in there. These snakes have been around forever.
Faith is a personal interpretation of spiritual connection. Up to the individual to wrap themselves in it or not.
Organized religion and institutions insert themselves into communities and families. They can create an environment which promotes and/or protects cheating.
Misogyny, greed, narcissism and secrecy all create cover for abuse. Red flags for those who are paying attention. Stop giving them money.
When I was in the military we had a guy in my unit that was caught looking at child porn on his govt computer. He was terrified that his wife would find out.
He was an ordained minister and had the balls to tell everyone that Jesus forgives. I told him that sure, Jesus forgives the fact that people aren’t perfect. But his forgiveness isn’t meant for scumbags to do whatever they want and then cry about phony forgiveness.
He never responded. I hope he got what he deserved.
Mighty Momma, you asked “ It’s a bit of an identity crisis – I don’t know who I am anymore. Do other chumps feel this way?”
Yes, I do. I felt like a bomb went off in my life on the first DDay. It sent an explosion through everything, even my faith life.
I married my XH believing that he truly believed the faith we both shared and grew up with. I wanted this in my husband. Six years later, on the first DDay, I couldn’t understand how he could have sex with a stranger (he was into hookups at bars on his business trips). I hung on to my belief that he was a believing Christian and that “the one time” was a one off and that he was truly remorseful.
But it was a wedge between us and I felt like I had to choose Christianity for myself, and that it was now just me and God, not the “3 of us- God, husband, wife” that I believed in.
Years later, after we had 4 kids, we learned natural family planning. And practiced it successfully. Then another DDay happened, and again, I had to revisit my own beliefs. I again had to look at what I am choosing for myself.
So yes, I think finding out that someone isn’t who you think, especially in religious beliefs, really throws you into an identity crisis.
And there is so much butchering of Christian beliefs surrounding
marriage, children, separation, and divorce. There was pressure from the XH that I should forgive him over & over. There was gaslighting & denial & omission of facts by the XH, so I could not even talk over my marriage fully with anyone outside my marriage. Presenting the information I knew to others- clergy, counselors, friends, and family- led them to recall certain church teachings that encouraged me to stay in the marriage. I found out later that it wasn’t my church, it was the XH’s deceptive behavior that confused me.
Now that I am out of the marriage, I actually experience real love and caring. But I still hesitate when I ask myself, “would I do whatever God asks me to do?” I would NOT go back into an abusive relationship – one where I am deceived into thinking that we agree to abide by certain things and the other person hides their real behavior. But I don’t think that what God would ever ask of anyone. I don’t believe “things happen for God’s reasons.” I think God knew my husband was a shit and wanted to see him change and he didn’t.
Even more, I get it if people lose their faith or actively reject it. I’ve seen that in who have been hurt directly by church leaders and representatives, or by those who have taught completely erroneous doctrines or insisted that certain practices are deigned by God or Christ or by the Spirit. I don’t see how they can separate the people from the so-called faith.
My Jesus Cheater refused to understand that I no longer trusted him! Three failed mediations and a two day trial where his lawyer questioned me that FW didn’t want a divorce. Yes, FW made that quite clear by dragging out the divorce for three years, lying on SFS’s, failing to provide updated or accurate financial documentation, and having his family company hide income. YET! I was supposed to trust him and his family because that is what Jesus would have me do!!! He won’t shut up about how the kids and I are required by God to forgive him, while he hasn’t repented (thanks Divorce Minister for the clarity), and we have reason to believe FW is probably cheating on Schmoopie… Oh! And he might have committed bigamy. Wonderful example of God’s grace! OH! Which reminds me!!! He managed to get in contact with our pastor’s wife, and when FW realized who he was talking to, he had the audacity to lecture her about God’s grace. She got off the phone and called me in a state of complete trauma. I confess that it was hard not to laugh.
Just yesterday, DD18 and I were clearing out some of FW’s garbage that he left behind. Whole family is dying laughing because he had a book, probably published in the late 80’s, about how to be a good, godly husband and father. Hilarious. Son immediately confiscated it when we showed it to him and he is howling with laughter and binge reading it (which is saying something due to his dyslexia)! Our belief is that FW assumed that if he surrounded himself with godly literature, that some type of osmosis process would happen.
I went to church every Sunday with m parents and when I was 12 went to youth group once a week in evening. I liked it but my parents made me bring a “friend” who was a bad influence on me. I had to drop her because I just wasnt a good person around her. She did not bring out the best in me. So we were late to the group one night because we were messing around. My dad was an adult volunteer these evenings. So he confronts me in the hallway, noone was around. My father normally hardly talked and never did anything violent never even really raised his voice. He was pissed and pushed me/ lifted me up against the wall yelling. I was completely shocked and startled. I sure told my mom about it. Well I found out maybe 1 yrs later that my dad would meet his mistress and have sex after work on those days before he came to the youth group. So who knows what happened on that day? Did he not get laid? Did he get into an argument with his mistress? Did my mom find out? WTFKS? What he did was completely out of character for him.
I wonder how much of the abusive rage I experienced from my Cheater was a result of drama in his cheating life.
As a kid at about the same age you were in the above story, my dad was being pursued by a strikingly beautiful divorcee in our town. Looking back now, he was clearly tempted and smitten and found excuses to be around her (mostly “oh the poor dear has no husband, I will help her rake her leaves, it is a noble service”). He normally never ever took me on errands wit him suddenly took me with to play with hr daughter while we all worked on the leaves. I remember finishing the task and going inside and they chatted for forever…day laughed and laughed and it was (at the very least) a huge emotional betrayal and I think he brought me along as the alibi and/or Dick Police. This whole memory had totally different meaning once I learned how cheating really unfolds.
Just getting to reading the letter from “Carl”… allow me to attempt to translate,
Dear Religious community followers,
I’m a fake and I’m lying to you as I now wail about, feeling sorry for myself, acting like my choices are simply actions that I could not prevent, considering my so-sad FOOs. Also, I’m totally bullshitting you, what with pretending that I love my wife and gloating several times with great entitlement that she is still with me, ever faithful and she still loves me…..aren’t I special!
I know full well that I’m completely faking all my self-angst with the language of bullshit Christianese. I’m a con- artist who is just trying to make a living as a false shepherd– you know, a wolf—- because the money is pretty good and thanks to 501c3 and a large congregation with wealthy–cough cough– I mean generous donors, they give you paid vacations, health, dental, and life insurance along with retirement! Sweet! Oh, I mean, I flagelate myself with much hubris — oops I mean humility—- for my past “mistakes”….. mea culpa!
If I were an honest man, I would confess out loud to my wife, to you my congregation and most importantly to God, that YES the sex was worth it and all that hard work I put into keeping thousands of secrets to pull it all off. Because life is short, I have tried my best to both live the sweet life of the “kept man” pastorate while keeping my dear sweet wife at home serving faithfully as the trusting and ever-loyal pastor’s wife while having all the fun of keeping “a bit on the side”.
Stay tuned for my ministry comeback!
“Carl”
Mine was a Mormon Jesus Cheater. We had a Protestant-Mormon interfaith marriage for eleven years. His antics over the years included saying he wanted a divorce so he could get re-married to fellow a Mormon woman (he insisted he had no particular Mormon woman; in actuality, he was cheating) and later telling me God had signed off on his emotional affair with his Mormon co-worker (different woman), so I didn’t get any say in their “friendship.” I was waiting for him to tell me that an angel with a drawn sword had commanded him, or else. (Look up Mormon founder Joseph Smith’s “polygamy” if you don’t know what I’m talking about.)
He also cheated on me with a woman who dumped him to marry a pastor; they are now serving at a church in Wisconsin. At one point, I reported her previous affair with my husband to the church they were serving at (of course, she hadn’t disclosed it during the hiring process), and she tried to forgiveness-shame me.
I love all of my skeptical and non-Christian chumps, but as a divinity school PhD student, please allow me to say that I very much fear for the souls of these people who use their supposed devotion to God as a cover for their infidelity. Pretending to be devoted to God and doing wicked things in his name is far worse than simply not believing in him. The Hebrew of the sixth/seventh commandment basically says, “Never, EVER commit adultery.” It’s extremely stern and unambiguous, yet these people always conclude they’re special and their reasons for breaking it are special.
And I think they are in for a rude awakening in the next life.
I totally agree with you. The warnings against adultery in the Hebrew Scriptures / Old Testament are strong and strung all through the texts. I too worry for the souls of people who do this. I do believe that God is forgiving, but when you hurt others using His Name, I think you are manufacturing your own condemnation.
And I agree that pretending devotion then hurting others IS WORSE than people who simply dont participate at all. (Which is why I find it so vile to rant about gay people then violate ones own marriage in adultery and stats say that about 50% of Christians cheat).
What that next life looks like is white something to ponder. I believe that if you are in a real state of repentance and not in active mortal sin, you go to Purgatory and are held accountable. That is where I believe my dead cheater is.
Thanks for your thoughts, UNM.
“quite”, not “white” dang autocorrect
*no particular Mormon woman in mind
I appreciate that you led your response with “Christians don’t have the market corned on hypocrisy”, Tracy, since I’m the chump of a “Wakantanka cheater”. When Snakeface was a couple of years into his Lakota path, he basically accused me of religious intolerance because I wasn’t brimming over with joy for him and all his spiritual growth. I had the audacity express my concern about his growing relationship with Tuberculosis, and to ask him if he’d skip a sweat or a weekend at the reservation seven hours away in order to be with our family. I didn’t have the courage at that time to ask Snakeface what the medicine man who was his new community’s spiritual leader would have thought about how much he was neglecting his wife and young sons.
To say nothing of the emotional-that-became-sexual-affair.