Can Affair Relationships Last? Are You Super, Duper Special?

can affair relationships last

Can affair relationships last? The big gamble of betting on longevity with a cheater.

***

Many chumps sent me the HuffPo article “Here’s Why My Affair Will Turn Into a Healthy, Long-Term Relationship.” (Short answer: Because you’re really special, exceptional, and in love.) By “Claire.” (No last name, because pride in your relationship stops at surnames.)

So, let’s put it through the patented Universal Bullshit Translator.

Can affair relationships last?

Can relationships based on infidelity last?

Oh, many chumps hope so, Claire. Because there is no more perfect karma than for two cheaters to wind up together, making each other miserable in perpetuity with the little slings and arrows of their shittiness. But unfortunately, yeah, these things tend to fall apart when the sparkles wear off.

It’s such a funny question though — you just want to know if it can LAST. Well, plenty of things endure. Doesn’t mean they’re healthy and happy though.

But if it lasts then people won’t think you’re an idiot for breaking up the home of three kids. It all Had a Greater Purpose.

Had you asked the girl I was nine years ago this question, as I was entering into marriage (and of course having it all figured out at the ripe old age of 21) I would have given you a resounding “NO” and rattled off the reasons I knew to be true.

Of course a relationship founded on lies and secrets could not be healthy. How could you ever expect someone who cheated with you to not cheat ON you?

This is your sensible self talking, Claire. Listen to her. Or ignore her until you find the sext messages on his cell phone.

Hypervigilance is fun.

Would you always be suspicious of them and would they be suspicious of you? These reasons of course would lead any rational person to say, “no…there is no circumstance under which an affair can lead to a healthy relationship.”

Fast forward nine years. I am at the end of my marriage, have 3 children, a home, 3 dogs… and while I definitely still have a lot to learn about life, I will say I am nowhere near as jaded as I once was with the illusions of what marriage would be.

We failed at marriage in just about every way possible,

Always the royal We with you cheaters. No, you failed at marriage by cheating. I’m sure your husband wasn’t perfect, but he didn’t cheat on you, and he didn’t bail on three kids and three dogs — so I think this failure is yours. Please own it.

all leading up to me saying “enough is enough” when it came to his substance abuse and… in the end… my falling in love with another man.

Oh, well he had a substance abuse problem. That’s different. Of course you had to cheat on him. I mean, he sucks, right? Did he have a substance abuse problem when you married him? Had kid 1? 2? 3? When exactly did you become aware of this problem?

Did you try Al-Anon? Therapy? Honest conversations? A call to the divorce lawyer? Detaching with love?

The heart wants what the heart wants…

This is about the man (let’s call him 40) that I have fallen head over heels, getting hit by a freight train, madly in love with and whether or not we will be able to translate a relationship started while I was still married into a happy, mutually respectful, healthy relationship. The logical, college educated part of me says absolutely not.

Horrible sentence construction, Claire. But from what I can tell, this guy you’re “madly in love with” is still not a sure thing? Because you’re not sure whether or not you “will be able to translate” the relationship into something permanent?

Best of luck with that. I’m sure he’d never throw a woman with three kids under the bus. That never happens. You know, guys who fuck married women for no-strings-attached sex, who are then suddenly available — yes, those men always fall madly-deeply-freight-train-in-love with you.

Guys who love no-strings-attached sex are just AWESOME at blended family life.

However, let’s just play devil’s advocate here. What if — in spite of the circumstances, and in spite of the underlying potential jealousy issues — we manage to make it work?

What if pigs could play banjos? Or if eating a steady diet of cookies resulted in weight loss? What if owls were Soviet spies?

I mean, it’s possible.

And not only make it work but have the kind of love I once thought did not even exist. Does that mean that it is possible to trust someone you know is capable of adultery? I know myself and I know my heart.

Well, it’s nice to know you know you won’t cheat. Which tells you fuck all about him. See, that’s the thing, Claire. We don’t control people with our love. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean the other person does too or will behave ethically. Ask your husband about that.

Regrets, I’ve had a few…

I know that what I did was not something I should have done. I should have done the brave thing and left my marriage before starting a relationship with someone else. I could have spared more feelings by leaving when I knew I wanted to. But I didn’t. And now I am left with a bit of uncertainty about the future of my relationship with 40.

Spared more feelings? That’s a nice bit of minimization. You have to know your husband and children are devastated by your affair. Yes, the brave thing would have been leaving honestly before you cheated, and yes, your husband and kids would have been hurt by a divorce.

But then you would’ve been alone. A single parent. No fantasy to sustain you. It’s hard, hard work. Much better to toss them all over for The Great Love of the Ages.

And you have just “a bit of uncertainty about the future” of your relationship with 40?

He’s not putting a ring on it?

Can’t imagine why not!

Adultery is a messy business. I would say to anyone that is considering an affair, in the middle of an affair, or just getting out of an affair, really spend some time looking at the reasons for your actions. I think the answer to whether or not you can make a healthy relationship out of an affair lies in these reasons.

If you were cheating just for the excitement, or just to get back at your spouse for their prior bad acts, the odds are you aren’t looking for a healthy relationship to come out of it anyway. I do think there is an exception though. I think that there are times, such as when your marriage is essentially over, and you are just in limbo mentally and emotionally, when a relationship that begins with an affair can end in a happy relationship.

Yes, of course, you’re one of the Better Class of Cheaters. You didn’t do it for the excitement, or to get back at your spouse (for say, his substance abuse). No, you Did It For Love! And that makes you different than other cheaters how exactly? You really think other cheaters don’t think they feel special butterflies too?

Your marriage was “essentially over”? Gee, did you inform your husband of that — or just your affair partner?

Marriages that are “essentially over” have consulted lawyers and have separation agreements, separate addresses, and separate finances.

“Emotional limbo” doesn’t cut it.

Stop being judgy!

I know this is not the most popular opinion to hold. Infidelity is typically met with a great deal of opinion and judgment, and very rarely are any exceptions made in regards to how the general public views a “cheater”.

But I can tell you’re working really hard to change that, Claire. Why not write a nice HuffPo piece about it and change the world’s opinion of your Love?

But I would suggest, before rushing judgment of the woman you work with or know from your child’s school, that you take a moment to consider what could have led her to have an affair.

Her crappy character.

You most likely do not know the story of her marriage, and you do not know what sins were committed by both parties.

Chumps don’t compel cheaters to cheat on them. Infidelity is entirely on the cheater. See “therapy, divorce lawyers, separation agreements” above. You didn’t do those things, ergo, you suck. I’m sorry.

If she does make it work with the man she had an affair with, good for her. Maybe her ex has forgiven her and she has forgiven herself. Maybe she has asked God for forgiveness and she is working to mend that relationship as well.

Well as long as you’ve forgiven yourself!

We’re all good! And Jesus forgave you too?

As the saying goes, it’s always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

As for her and her new man, the best they can do is listen to their hearts and trust one another. Here’s hoping the love 40 and I have for one another will be enough to weather the storm we created. I am looking forward to calmer days ahead.

Claire, you were a piece of ass to this guy. Will he “listen to his heart” and trust you to “weather the storm”? I sincerely doubt it. Unless you’re of use to him — does he need a sofa to sleep on? Are you 20 years younger than he is? Do you have a trust fund?

Is he creepy? Did you meet him on Craigslist? Do you really want this guy around your children? Because pervy pedophiles prey on single mothers. Or is he just a run of the mill douchebag who sleeps with married women?

Get yourself in therapy, Claire. You’re not special or exceptional. You’re an idiot who threw away her marriage and intact family for a fantasy. Your marriage was difficult? Now, you’re looking at single motherhood with three kids. Your stock is not going to trade highly. The dream is evaporating and shit’s about to get very real.

Best of luck.

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IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago

Claire: What if we (AP) manage to make it work?
CL: What if pigs could play banjos? What if eating a steady diet of cookies resulted in weight loss? What if owls were Soviet spies? I mean, it’s possible.
IHH: Priceless!

Jax
Jax
5 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

Fantastic article! Owls that are spies? I laughed out right – you forgot ‘ I had to lie to over and over again to you because I didn’t want to hurt you’ -I guess herpes or the clap are ‘painless’!!!

Eddie
Eddie
6 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

Possible really ? Wishful thinking

sunshine
sunshine
9 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

Haha! I LOVED that line too!

Webster
Webster
9 years ago
Reply to  sunshine

Going back to the original post – as somebody trying to maintain my equilibrium and look after family amidst diabolical revelations of multiple affairs and defrauding kids and I of a lot if money you are a sanity saviour worth cherishing…

Nain
Nain
9 years ago
Reply to  sunshine

You can put lipstick on a pig and it’s still a pig…keep wallowing cheaters…it’s still dishonesty and deceit!

Jules
Jules
9 years ago
Reply to  Nain

LOVE IT!!! You are right Nain…..it’s still dishonesty and deceit and it hurts us. But we aren’t running from the pain, we are dealing with it so that when we do get in to a healthy relationship–ours WILL last!

armor clad
armor clad
9 years ago
Reply to  Jules

Hey ladies:

So y’all got cheated on. Either work it out or go out and find someone new. Y’all sound so bitter. Yes, it’s true, the next guy you find might cheat too, but better to have loved and lost than to sit around and be bitter.

I was cheated on. But I realized early on that being bitter is not going to help me attract women. You guys have to get your mojo back. Stewing in anger and bitterness is not going to help you do that. It is interesting to read these posts. But with all the cheating going on out there, I just resigned myself to the fact that everyone cheats eventually. No way around it. So why be bitter and alone.

Donna
Donna
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Yes for every narcissist serial cheating asshole that dates women who think they are SPECIAL I would suggest the OW check his phone records and think again.
Spring is just around the corner and my Ex has already contacted his reserves. Those are the other women he returns to for a thrill while you are working. They like you have no problem screwing married men. Now he is SINGLE. Why do you think he wanted his EX wifes health benefits? He said it was because he didn’t want to marry any if his whores. In our divorce settlement court date he said he thinks about me all the time. Your his latest fuck buddy nothing more. Oh yeah your also not the first to get caught up in his florida DREAM. Haha I am free. He has already tried to contact me. You can’t be with him every minute. Enjoy the drama you have I am sure the fighting has already started. The thing he loves is his you fight for him. He’s not a good guy. Happy spring!

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Dear armor clad, if cheating and forgiving work for you, that’s fine. For the people who come to this board and write, cheating has meant many levels of devastation.Many people here forgave and forgave and the cheating never stopped.

Most people who get STDs from a partner or have all of there money stolen or found out that the the affair partner has been on expensive vacations with the spouse while they stayed home with the kids are angry, even enraged. That’s healthy. It’s not normal to be abused and then feel nothing. You can decide to stay in your marriage. And while many of us may encourage our friends who have been and are presently being abused to step away from the abuse and start a life over, I know of no person here who has been castigated for making that choice.

This board provides key information to many people who have been abused emotionally, financially and psychologically by cheaters. I had no idea about the narcissist’s “devaluation and discard” stages of relationship and spent month wondering what had happened to me and the relationship, seemingly overnight. He left with my money but no explanation.

Feel free to continue what appears to be a form of open marriage. That’s your choice. I prefer fidelity.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

Oh, yeah, Jackass, I forgot to tell Hully about that, about the forgiving and working on the relationship whilst he does absolutely nothing, and then finding him with OW again. Forgot about that. It HAS to be my bitterness! Hully, did you find your reformed spouse back with OW again after promising you the earth? That is the difference between reforming and being an an abusive uncaring asshole

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Gotta love a redneck hick parading around his fuckwaddery of ‘don’t be bitter’.
Couldn’t you be even more predictable? I’m waiting for a ‘Its not what I did but its your reaction to it’
I’m not bitter – I cleave fuckheads out of my life who employ shit character. Major difference. Bitter would imply that I would want a cheater’s terrible life.
Makes you wonder what is going through the mind of morons like this, really.
‘Armour clad’, huh? Guess you have to hide behind that because one poke and you’d be crying on the floor.

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Ah, so we have yet another fuckwit who claims “Its just sex” and rounds it off with claiming I’m being vulgar? You’re the one being vulgar by saying “Its just sex” and trampling on the boundaries of a place meant for chumps, you fuckwad. I’ll call you what I fucking please. If you can’t handle me calling you out on your shit, I suggest you piss off.
If you want to debase yourself being married to a slut, be my guest.
Fact is, I’d write off their name – with their own blood, if they even thought about doing that.

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Tempest:

Stop being so American. An affair is just sex. I am not troll. Be nice. Anyway, I bet your cute when you’re angry.

And trolls don’t upset me in fairytales, either. Sippy cups are for people that are so scared by life they attack and accuse anyone who disagrees of being a troll.

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Lania:

You have never met someone who just knocked your socks off after being married for years? My spouse did. It was just sex. No biggy. Maybe you just haven’t met him yet. Stuff happens, my friend.

BTW: you sound like a vulgar mean girl. Can’t we all just get along. Be nice. No need for name calling.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Hully

“Who’s that tromping across my bridge?” The littlest billy goat gruff just met ANOTHER troll. Do you remember what happens to the troll at the end of that story, Hully?

Now leave Lania alone and go back to your sippy cup. Circle Time is about to start.

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

PS: I can say with 100% iron will that I will NEVER cheat. Know why?
Because I don’t have shit character.
Sucks for you if it means sinking the bar so low that you put up with garbage from other people.
Are you perchance projecting your shitty morals onto everyone else? Doesn’t take much to realise you’re a cheater or cheater apologist, in which case it means your pathetic mindset means nothing. Fuck off.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Hey ArmorClad…….are you my XPOS? Just sayin….

Regina
Regina
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Hey Armor Clad; Maybe you ought to cover your nuts with the armor-y clad stuff.

Drew
Drew
9 years ago
Reply to  Regina

Friend, Yes! Anger is “misunderstood.” Anger propelled me forward.

From Psychology Today. The Seven Most Important Anger Questions to Ask Yourself
No one likes “those angry women” so why not stay depressed and self-doubting?
Published on November 24, 2013 by Harriet Lerner, Ph.D. in The Dance of Connection

Anger is something we feel. It exists for a reason and always deserves our respect and attention. We all have a right to everything we feel—and certainly our anger is no exception.

But If feeling anger signals a problem, venting anger does not solve it. So there are questions about anger that may be helpful to ask ourselves:

“What am I really angry about?”

“What is the problem, and whose problem is it?”

“How can I sort out who is responsible for what?”

“How can I learn to express my anger in a way that will not leave me feeling helpless and powerless?”

“When I’m angry, how can I clearly communicate my position without becoming defensive or attacking?”

“What risks and losses might I face if I become clearer and more assertive?”

“If getting angry is not working for me, what can I do differently?”

These are the questions I address in The Dance of Anger, not with the goal of getting rid of our anger or doubting its validity, but of gaining greater clarity about its sources and then learning to take a new and different action on our own behalf.
Amen!

somuchhurt
somuchhurt
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

I wonder if armor clad was married for 20 years, I wonder if his spouse fucked his best friend in their martial bed, I wonder if her lover was at their sons graduation, I wonder if she spent every dime they had, then spent the children’s inhertience that his father left for the children as he passed away just as she was beginning his affair, I am not only angry but I have damn right to be angry and I’m not ashamed of it!

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  somuchhurt

somuchhurt:

Your hubsster sounds like an ahole. What can I say. But for my spouse it was just sex, so what. I got over it. But I agree, your spouse is whacko and you have a right to be angry

Every sitch is diff.

somuchhurt
somuchhurt
9 years ago
Reply to  somuchhurt

Thank you friend! We will get through this!

Friend
Friend
9 years ago
Reply to  somuchhurt

So much hurt,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Anger is so misunderstood. I just got finished reading a BS letter about how my life would be better if I had no anger.
No. I would be dead. Anger spurred me to keep going in my shoddy life. Anger spurred me to draw boundaries. Think about it… If a tiger is chasing you, the last thing to do is go pet the ‘kitty’… Smart People get angry and ACT.
I love it when someone here laments the inability to get angry. That is a terrible handicap that stems from cowardice or severe brainwashing.
My therapist said anger will destroy my relationships… So I try to just keep a small bit, but like a little penicillin it does wonders in this fight for my life. No more easy target here for all those predators. I got smart. I got angry.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
9 years ago
Reply to  somuchhurt

Touche’ SMH, touche’!

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Armor Clad,

I think I see a chink in your mail.

“So, why be bitter and alone?”

How about better to be alone than bitter? We are all here so we can be OK with alone without being bitter.

That is why the soul slayer is NOT in our home and we have hope for an honest future.

Beware, you have found a place where chumps dwell…

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

Calamity Jane:

I think I see a chink in your fake persona. CL maybe?

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

I am pretty happy, not bitter at all by now.
I just happen to find these asshole cheaters fascinating in some weird way.
It is fun to read about them and see their disordered behavior patterns.

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Oh, “get over it”. Why didn’t I think of that?

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Carmella1722

facepalm

jobin
jobin
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

‘y’all’? You expect me to take advice from someone who starts sentences off with ‘y’all’?!? These are written responses – you do realize you don’t have to type like you talk, right?

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  jobin

Hully, the think you don’t understand that is different about you, is that your spouse reformed.

Do you know what that means? That means he isn’t a narcissistic asshole. It means that he was capable of looking at the terrible pain he caused, imagining what that was like for you, feeling remorseful about it, looking at what shitty character and past issues HE had in order to do such a hurtful thing, and committing to change. In other words, he ‘reformed’. Making amends means changing the way you behave.

I would have given my right tit for that. I would have forgiven and moved on and we would have gotten over it because at last I would have had a spouse who listened to me and given back, and it would have all been worth it.

But I didn’t. I went through the second trauma of founding out just how character disordered he is (triple diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder) and that he had always been selfish, remote, and treated me like an appliance – and you CAN’T reconcile with someone like this. Narcissist MEANS ‘failure of relationship.’

What you describe and what we have to deal with are two different things. It has been the worst experience of my life and I have been crushed and heartbroken to discover that I never had any connection. There is no way I would voluntarily choose this out of ‘bitterness’.

tryinghard
tryinghard
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

BTW– I hate, hate when people say “you’re bitter” We aren’t bitter, we’re pissed!!! Big difference!

tryinghard
tryinghard
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

Patsy
This really hit home for me. I am so sorry you were treated so horribly by your husband. I’m a reconciler, have been for 3 years. Sometimes I’m grateful because my H is doing just what you describe. He does show genuine remorse. He’s asked for forgiveness LOL even when I’m not mad! If anyone here has/had reason to divorce it’s me. sometimes I question my sanity for staying, reconciling, unicorn hunting.. Sometimes I wish I had just moved on, taken what belonged to me and assumed the devil may care attitude what happens to everyone whom this divorce would have impacted. I didn’t and I live with my decision and try not think about “what if”.

I think I hear you say you wish you could have reconciled with your H but it was impossible because he’s a genuine, dyed in the wool, NPD incapable of change and consideration and ability to love anyone but himself. Don’t! Be grateful you didn’t have a chance. Be grateful you could and did get away from him. I think my H has narcissistic tendencies because he was raised by a NPD mother and co-dependent father. I don’t know can anyone be a little bit NPD? 🙂

My life is pretty good but there are days when I wish I would have just cashed it in :/

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  jobin

He/she is definitely from the south. Although I deplore trolls, I will say – being from the south myself – that we tend to talk and write just that way. “You guys” just sounds completely weird.

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Ladies and gents, I suggest that we make a pact that no one responds to the trolls. They’re just cheaters (or affair partners) who are angry and bitter because they know in their hearts they are wrong,

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Geez I have been reading this blog and responses and I am afraid to post. It seems as it everyone who disagrees with the typical sentiment here is skewered and labeled a troll or a cheater or an affair partner. Huh! What’s with that? I am not troll. I was cheated on, but my spouse reformed and now we are happy, 22 years out. I am sad that some here insist they would NEVER cheat. Have you had the opportunity or the invitation. I have. I think I could and I still do. I am still glad that I stuck it out with my spouse. We love each other and love is about accepting someone warts and all. This leave a cheater thing is so peculiarly American as in USA. The Y’all guy seems to be an exception to the puritanical hypocritical leave a cheater thing Americans embrace. Hit me with your best shot. I am all ears. I expect to be attacked

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Einstein, it is with the utmost respect that I must decline taking your suggestion of not acknowledge trolls’ comments. Why let them think they were right or they have silenced us and that we have no words to refute them? Fair debate is healthy, right?

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

I don’t know how CL’s sponsorship works, but it’s also possible each comment increases her revenue (or at least likelihood of revenue). Plus, the research shows that bullies do not stop unless they have consequences or are put in their place. And let’s face it, a few of these “don’t be bitter” posters are bullies.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

I’m not bitter, but I’d far rather be that way than be an immoral fuck resigned to having zero integrity in a world of narcissism. But hey, you go ahead and enjoy the ride. I’ll thank God I’M not the poor woman foolish enough to date you.

violet
violet
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

I’m not bitter. I’m better. But thanks, armor clad, for completely missing the point of CL’s blog. She helps people who have been fucked over by narcissistic assholes understand that they can recover… from one of the most traumatic events imaginable. KInd of like sites that help rape victims or victims of domestic abuse. If you don’t find the comments of folks here helpful, by all means move on, but posting shitty, preachy comments just makes you look like a big jerk.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

Right on, Glad!

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Well, aren’t you urbane? Cheating happens, get over it.

NEWSFLASH–we are getting over it, by coming to CL and sharing in a community of people who have been hurt the same way. If we want to do so with humor and snark, as opposed to lecturing other people on how they should live their lives, we will. Thanks for playing.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Tempest, isn’t it generous that she has ‘resigned herself that everyone cheats eventually’? I never have and never will cheat. I have a high degree of resentment for her insipid and ludicrous remark.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  armor clad

Armor clad—-Don’t waste any of your brain cells resigning yourself that I will ever be a cheater in my lifetime…. Sheesh! What an ignorant and irrational statement for you to make

IntegrityRulesDestiny
IntegrityRulesDestiny
9 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

I would rather be “alone” than with a cheater. How much more alone can a chump be if the cheater is out screwing someone else??? That’s just pathetic to stay. And you want to set yourself up as a CHUMP instead of being bitter and alone? What, you’re going to be happy with a cheater? LOL.

sunshine
sunshine
9 years ago

Outstanding article, Chump Lady. Right on the target, on so many points. And I love how, at the end, it says “filed under Bad Infidelity Advice” lol! You can say that again!

About her comment, “And not only make it work but have the kind of love I once thought did not even exist. Does that mean that it is possible to trust someone you know is capable of adultery? I know myself and I know my heart.”

Riiiight, Miss Cheaterpants. You say this NOW. But didn’t you also say that once before, when you married your Chump? It’s like my Ex used to say, “well, I WAS madly in love with you at the moment I said it.” Cheaters excel at situational truth. Even the few who actually believe what they’re saying at the time they’re saying it (yeah, most are just liars) find out later that their character is too weak/ shitty to follow through on promises/ commitments. And that’s the issue here. NOT how much you love this guy or how much you FEEL you won’t cheat. But how well, when the going gets rough, you can be strong and stay the course, compromise, and work things out. And history shows that you can’t. Instead, you screw over your best friend/ partner/ mate and your own kids. You’re a cheater.

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
9 years ago
Reply to  sunshine

I love that she asserts that she knows her own heart, when she simultaneously claims that the affair started because she DIDN’T know her own heart. Funny, that.

Karma Express
Karma Express
9 years ago
Reply to  Free Vixen

That’s because 40 is just so awesome, he provided the road map to her heart. (Although I fear she’s going to have a crash soon. If only she’d taken the high road.)

Webster
Webster
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

OW told sbxh that ‘there is a brighter light for us’ – as soul mates of course there is – if only it was of nuclear proportions 🙂

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

No, I think they are taking the train. The train wreck of love that cannot be denied. It’s heading straight into her heart.

chumpfor21
chumpfor21
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

Situational truth – outstanding concept. And exactly right.

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago

Wow, the entitlement is just oozing out of Claire’s writing…. seriously? all she and Mr. 40 have to do now is “listen to their hearts” – what about her husband’s heart? the one that was maybe still in love with her when she went off to fuck Mr. 40? The one that she didn’t bother to TELL that the marriage was “essentially over?” Oh yeah, that’s just a side issue for her… she was entitled to the cake of her “over” marriage and all the benefits it brought to her.

And what is it with cheaters and trains? Mine told me he “tried to fend OW off like crazy but she was all over him like a train wreck.” He also, like Claire, said “I left you a long time ago, Muse. I just didn’t bother to tell you.” Wow how deep. I would have preferred that he had told me back when he was cheating with two prior OWs… I would have ensured that he left me for real, I would have kicked him out.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

“Mine told me he “tried to fend OW off like crazy but she was all over him like a train wreck.”

Yeah, he really TRIED to fend her off, poor guy!
My ex told me that his two OW were both coming on to him like crazy, so instead of telling them “NO,” he figured it was best to tell them that the only way he would sleep with them is if they agreed to a threesome. Because THAT would surely put them off, right? Of course, they agreed, so how could my poor ex get out of having the affairs? Cheater logic and refusal to accept responsibility at its finest.

Kelly
Kelly
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

Gag……

kimmy
kimmy
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Mine told me he “de-railed”!!!! Yeah……you could say that!!

Eddie
Eddie
6 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

My wife started cheating right after I found I have cancer, I found out by accident a friend was telling me how he google is name and couldn’t believe what was in there , when I got home I google my name and then my wife’s I couldn’t believe our address show it as been her former address, the pain and humiliation I’m feeling I can’t possibly explain , I’m lost and feel less then a man

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

LOL mine had a loco-motive, because he was loco (yes) and said when fending off her train-wreck attack on him, he was motivated b “defending us, Muse, I was defending US, against HER!” yup, just plain loco.

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
9 years ago

What I wrote there:

Affairs are abuse, period. But don’t just take my word for it, read what Dr Willard Harley has to say with respect to affairs.
“But even if there were to be no risk of rekindling an affair, if any contact continues, the affair still remains alive in the mind of the betrayed spouse. Since an affair is the most hurtful and selfish act that one spouse can inflict on the other, any contact restores the memory and perpetuates the pain. Wives have told me that their husband’s affair was worse than being raped. Men have said their wifes affair was worse than losing a child. It’s the ultimate betrayal.” http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html
So here we have an abuser, justifying her abuse.
I have no doubt the marriage is bad for her. However, is it also bad for her husband? Does he abuse alcohol to escape from his bad marriage?
Affairs are addictive. Clair sounds just as addicted to 40 as she claims her betrayed husband is to alcohol.
“Affairs are not usually difficult to prove. That’s because the affair is an addiction, and addicts are notoriously sloppy in covering their tracks. They also become progressively sloppy as the affair develops. They try to hide it, and are reasonably successful early in a relationship. But eventually they leave text messages, email, and telephone records in plain sight for anyone to observe. If a suspecting spouse is patient, it doesn’t take too long or require too much effort, to prove that an affair is taking place.” http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_exposed.html
Finally, what is Clair teaching her children? That instead of dealing with problems head on, in an open, honest fashion, she resorts to deceit. The ends justify the means. You can do anything you want if the result is you are happy.
We wonder where the entitlement mentality is sourced? It’s children, raised by parents such as Claire who learn it’s ok to lie and cheat to obtain happiness.

Michelle L
Michelle L
7 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Loved your comment uniballer1965!

Michelle L
Michelle L
7 years ago
Reply to  Michelle L

I believe this unconfirmed affair/s is factual in my marriage. I have much proof, but deniable from spouse’s mouth. Catch 22. Unhappy, don’t trust completely, many other negatives resulting….. Maybe it’s my own feelings, projections affecting this. My belief is that whatever needs to be made known, undeniably, will happen at the right moment. Marriage is forever except with regards to infidelity.

Chumpette
Chumpette
9 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

I just read several articles on marriagebuilders.com as linked in unuballer’s post. not impressed. some good points, but the therapist misses the main idea ***character flaw of cheater*** and reality that no one gets all their needs met in a marriage! AND once an affair is discovered, the solution is NOT for the betrayed spouse to better meet the needs of the cheater!!

Uggghhhh.

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

He understands the mind of the cheater, and provides a means for those who want to recover the marriage (MRIC, IIRC) I’d never try it again. I’ve told my new bride that if she feels the need to cheat, don’t plan on me trying to win her back. If she doesn’t respect me enough to have an adult conversation, with words and proposed solutions and all, then don’t expect that I’d stick around for more of that.

heather64
heather64
9 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

I actually used that comparison when I told my ex how I felt about what he had done. Back in my early 20s, I had a boyfriend that liked to get high and one night was spent raping me while he held a gun to my head. Managed to get over that, was a very happy, fearless woman when ex came into my life. 11 years after we were married, he decides on his own the marriage was over (forgot to tell me though) and that his affairs were not cheating as he wasn’t married (oh really?). When I told him the devastation he caused was so much worse than that episode I went through (and he knew of), he told me to stop being so silly and dramatic, what he had done was not a big deal. o.O

Idiot . . .

NoMoreLies
NoMoreLies
7 years ago
Reply to  heather64

After seeing on TV a woman recount her experience of being gang raped, I told my ex about how terrorized she must still feel…his comment was “rape? It’s just sex. It’s not like she was killed”. Whether he actually believes that or said it to devalue something I was concerned about, I’m not sure. And he has a daughter.

Thankful
Thankful
9 years ago
Reply to  heather64

Heather64, big hugs to you.

It is irrational that those we trust with our lives, past, present and future can act in way that leave us gutted. It is almost as if in their thinking they assume ‘ she got over that, she’ll get over this it’s no big deal. Assholes.

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

uniballer, that is totally an awesome post. You hit the nail on the entitled, deceitful head of the cheater. They truly do believe they are special, and more important than the chump and they are entitled to do whatever they want and if it hurts you, too bad, you made me do it.

Kira
Kira
9 years ago

I’m touched by how much she cares about her kids. I mean, look at those countless times she mentioned them, and her concerns about how they were coping with the divorce, and if they would like Mr. 40 and if he’d be a good stepparent…

No. No wait. That never happened.

Yes, I get that wasn’t the point of the article. But it is interesting that the only time she mentioned them was once in a throwaway line about how her marriage was over and she had 3 kids, a home and 3 dogs. And the rest is about how great the love of her and Mr. 40 is, and will it last the test of time, and they’re going to try, and Mr. 40 is sooo fabulous, and why she broke up her marriage for noble reasons, etc. SELF. INVOLVED. NARC.

Sorry, guys. That was just triggering for me for reasons that have nothing to do with cheating, and everything to do with Narcs and kids.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Kira

Excellent point, Kira. What I notice is lots of “I” sentiments to the exclusion of other people, and lots of passive sentences to avoid responsibility, as in “what sins were committed by both parties.”

Kira
Kira
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yeah, let’s just say I’ve read a whole lot of crazy Narc writing in the last several years, and they all have a “sameness” to them, for reasons you point out. Especially the exclusion of other people. Also the “the whole world is against me” thing, that seems to be a common theme.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago
Reply to  Kira

Yep. And self pity. The disordered always spin themselves as innocent victims.

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

It’s amazing to me that anyone could be so self-absorbed, especially consider the pain and devastation that is in store for her husband and children – and probably his wife and children.

I never cease to be floored at the callousness of these people.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Yes, that is exactly how they all are- callous. Yet they seem to think of themselves as highly evolved, sensitive/romantic types.

Kira
Kira
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

Always the innocent victim, GIO, and if that victim card doesn’t work, play a new one. Just got that reminder today from one of the Narcs in my life – if a particular victim story is no longer flying, just try a new one. Always a poor sad sausage! This after having to having to deal with X yesterday. I think I’m all stocked up on crazy for the week and its only Monday.

Itrusthesucks
Itrusthesucks
9 years ago
Reply to  Kira

Don’t join the circus!

Java
Java
9 years ago

Ah cheaters, brain made of pretzels. If this doesn’t hurt so much i think i’d laugh.
Even if i were that much of narcistic i don’t think i’d be able to mind fuck myself with these lines of justification, maybe i’m too logical that way

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
9 years ago
Reply to  Java

“Ah cheaters, brain made of pretzels.” Hahaha, I LOVE this!

Java
Java
9 years ago
Reply to  Java

Wait until one of the kids got sick or get into trouble and see how the incredible mr.40 will react. In their cheating world there are no responsibility and boom they’ll go to real life and have to deal with messy business of raising kids, busy morning, running errands, paying bills, dirty house, driving to soccer pratice, less date night, and he’ll see your makeupless face and messy hair, warts and all.
Oh yeah, i see calmer days ahead for you Claire. Let’s just hope mr.40 can keep it in his pants when a single girl bat her eyelashes at him

Mommy Chump
Mommy Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  Java

You are assuming cheater pants will take 3 kids and 3 dogs – how about a more likely scenario of cheater pants dumping kids and dogs on chmp XH so she doesn’t have to face the mess she created on a daily basis. Then she is freed to fully focus on her happiness. There seems to be absolutely no concerns for what her actions have done to her children and how the kid’s happiness has been ruined. I am also assuming the kids didn’t think Mr 40 was great or she would have been horn tooting how they accept and love Mr 40 too so it will be 1 big happy blended family and proves how she made the right choice. Her silence on the kids says to me the kids aren’t cooperating.

FeralBlue
FeralBlue
9 years ago
Reply to  Mommy Chump

My exh wanted the dog… until I told him “If he was YOUR dog all along, as you claim, you owe me for the boarding, care, food, and vet bills from the last year after you moved in with your girlfriend and left me to care for him at my own expense. (And didn’t visit him) ” When he heard $1k (ended up with a large vet bill), he quit asking for the dog.

There was NO way I was letting him take my furry best friend. I even put it in the divorce decree that the dog stayed with me. I simply knew if I told him he had to pay (consequences) for the bills he left me with, he wouldn’t want to.

Cheaters don’t actually want anything they might have to care for (kids, relationships etc) unless it gives them some sort of image boost. Even then, the person/pet/relationship is going to suffer as a result of them being unable to care about anything but themselves and their images.

Mommy Chump
Mommy Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  FeralBlue

Actually the only item my XH was being a dick about was signing over the registration papers to the horses – I am pretty sure he thought that they were worth money (they were in their late teens and we had owned them their entire lives) and he wanted to force a sale of them so he could get the money from it. After all, who gives a shit anout the horses feelings and what the hell happens to them anyway – dog turd. I did the same thing -presented him with the total with what he would owe for said horses, including a hefty vet bill in an early version of the divorce settlement and he immediately ended his interest in the horses. Instead the divorce settlement had a line forcing him to sign he registration papers over to me. As an asside, he never expressed any interest in his child or the dogs and cat. These NPD types absolutely don’t carr about anyone but themselves. They are not capable of caring for another living creature. One of my new tests for people I meet is whether they have a pet or not.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
9 years ago

“You most likely do not know the story of her marriage, and you do not know what sins were committed by both parties.”

Last time I checked, the Ten Commandments did not go “Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery Unless…” Also, sins don’t compel us to sin. A wicked heart leads us to sin…oh, I guess she’s following her heart. Watch out!

Raging
Raging
9 years ago

Her husband also doesn’t know the story of her marriage.. thanks to her telling 40 all her troubles instead of him. She forgot to mention the part where she didn’t tell him that she ended his story, and started adding a secret chapter to hers…

Kelly
Kelly
9 years ago
Reply to  Raging

Yes, Raging, and that’s what these cheaters rob us of, the real story of our lives. When we look back, we wonder how much was a lie–What was real? What was false? We deserved to know, we deserved to make our own decisions. What is the value of stealing months, years, and decades of our lives? That is the real horror.

Webster
Webster
9 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

That is so true!! It’s what’s been bothering me the most – knowing that the past 10 or more years have been a fiction

lisahaight1969
lisahaight1969
9 years ago
Reply to  Webster

I have this problem too. Got rid of most of the photos ( saved some for the kids ) from the last 16 years of my life.
Feels slightly surreal.

From this day forward my life will be 100% genuine!
No one will be allowed to rob me of my own reality !!!

On that note, CL – when are you starting your chump dating sight.

As far as I can see from where I stand in the dating pool, there are too many sharks in the water.
Us chumps need to stick together!!!

Buddy
Buddy
9 years ago

This might also be a good place to replace infidelity with other forms of abuse: “before rushing judgment of the man you work with or know from your child’s school, that you take a moment to consider what could have led him to physically abuse his wife.

You most likely do not know the story of his marriage, and you do not know what sins were committed by both parties. “

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Buddy

Or, the more likely scenario with the wife physically abusing the man…

Kellyp
Kellyp
9 years ago
Reply to  Buddy

And let’s not forget:
“Before rushing judgment of the man you work with or know from your child’s school, or you know, life with, that you take a moment to consider what could have led him to drink like a fish.

Because I’m sure “Claire” was rushing home to clean house, cook dinner, get the kids ready for school and finish homework, right?

Drew
Drew
9 years ago
Reply to  Kellyp

Never mind engaging in the relationship with her husband. He’s just an accessory you know

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  Buddy

^^ yes

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
9 years ago
Reply to  Buddy

Right on, Buddy. Right on.

Thankful
Thankful
9 years ago

My STBX is currently peddling the ‘ yes I had an affair but you have only heard her side of the story’ narrative. He is desperate to leave the notion in people’s minds that some how my actions have contributed to him seeking sex outside our marriage.

My actions did not cause my husband to be selfish, deceptive, self serving, manipulative, or entitled. Nor did it caused him to seek sex with other men.
Because for me to be able to cause these things, would mean I have one twisted super power. In the interest of public safety and to prevent any man in my future from suffering the same fate would it be best if I place my self in isolation. ????

Buddy
Buddy
9 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

@Thankful, I am sure the wives in your community would like you in isolation in case your powers cause their husbands to stray. On the other hand, the husbands in your community would probably like your husband locked up so they don’t have to worry. (Of course, hopefully the husbands don’t really have to worry).

In my case, I told my therapist that once my divorce is final, I should issue an APB to all wives in my community whose husbands are doctors or lawyers – “Wealth-seeking recently single narcissist posing as sexy siren muse with slightly broken wing on loose!!! Please keep your husbands indoors, especially if they make over $200,000.”

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
9 years ago

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?”

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
9 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Exactly, uniballer1965…you got my hint 😉 It is SO true as well!!!

A
A
9 years ago

I can’t wait for the update next year!! Ugh, so stupid!!

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
9 years ago

When you ask Jesus for forgiveness, he forgives you and says, “Go and sin no more”. What part of, “Sin no more” does she not get?

A new relationship will never last or be fulfilling built on top of the one destroyed by cheaters.

The physics of humanity does not work that way.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
9 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

I want to clarify when asking Christ for forgiveness it is on your knees, completely humbled, head bowed in deep sorrow for the pain you caused others and Him because of your transgressions and then you SIN NO MORE.

Nothing worse than a sanctimonious Jesus-forgave-me-why-can’t-you. Barf, vomit, wretch.

I doubt any cheater could begin to comprehend the depth of sorrow and regret that must accompany their request for true forgiveness in order to be forgiven.

If they could, they never would have cheated in the first place.

Chumpy
Chumpy
9 years ago

Shaking my head in disbelief. Did Claire get paid to write this tripe?
“And what is it with cheaters and trains?” I don’t know about your ex but mine was a train wreck. I remember when his behavior was kind of cute until it wasn’t. Train wrecks are red flag behaviors for me now.

violet
violet
9 years ago

Self-delusion much? So let me get this straight. Claire has three young children and an ex-husband with “substance abuse” problems (another polite term for a drug addict), a mortgage and no mention of employment. Sure, “40” is just foaming at the mouth to jump into to that situation-not. Is she really that stupid? Well,duh…

More likely 40 was looking for a quick fuck and “poor” Claire was looking for someone to rescue her from her fucked-up life. And by his actions, Mr. 40 has shown he does not have the strength of character to be a good stepfather to the 3 children Claire mentions in passing. Does she not understand that he probably chose her exactly because she was in no position to demand an authentic commitment from him?

Through many years of hardwork, X and I were able to achieve a measure of financial stability, which OW thought would soon be hers. Boy, was she suprised to discover an ironclad trust controlled solely by me! And when X, who loves money more than people, discovered AP’s lust for money, he dropped her so fast she thought she had been hit by the proverbial freight train. That was the only funny thing in the entire reality TV show that my life became for a time- watching her disbelief that X would not give her a dime after she lost her husband, job, and home. To this day, she tells anyone that will listen that her “relationship” with X bankrupted her. Financially perhaps, but she was morally bankrupt long before X declined to be her sugar daddy. If Claire thinks Mr. 40 has any intention of rescuing her from the disaster that is her life, she is in for a world of disappointment, which she so justly deserves.

expatChump
expatChump
9 years ago
Reply to  violet

Violet, I don’t know about a train, but it sure sounds like the karma bus rolled over your ex and the OW.

Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
9 years ago

As I’ve said before, why oh why can they just say, “I’m an asshole. My poor decision making hurt people. I only want to make it work is because I would be too uncomfortable laying in the bed I made. . . By myself.”

Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
9 years ago

*can’t they just say. . .

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
9 years ago

I think Claire might be Jackass’s MOW, except “40” is younger than the Jackass and Claire has a college education and can spell.

Chumpette
Chumpette
9 years ago

So nice to start a week reality therapy. Thanks, CL!

I have unfortunately witnessed two couples in my community who ended their marriages with adultery and married their APs and now proudly attend community events with their happy ” in love” heads held high. The message to their kids, and mine, was: when you fall out of love with your spouse and fall in love with someone else’s, it is ok.”

Now i know why XH did not have same stance as i did to these affairs and remarriages. Duh.

Today’s post reminded me of the time XH said ILYBIANILWY. I recall saying something along the lines of …yes, that happens in long term marriages like ours..people fall in and out of love..marriage is not a feeling, etc etc

Oh if only i knew then what i know now!

I do not read Huff Po and am disturbed by these articles about legitimizing infidelity. Another poster today chuckled that this article was filed under “bad infidelity advice”… Haha i thought that meant Claire’s article was filed that way on HuffPo!

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

Yeah, I think the comment that the public doesn’t regard cheaters very highly is no longer true. There are no more Scarlet Letters. I know that XH continues to have friends flock around him & his restaurant with no more than a sotto-voce “tsk,” while they’re raising their glasses in a toast to him & his fabulous new girlfriend.

I guess it’s OK that he fell in love with her while he was still married to me and HAD to leave the marriage to follow his d—, I mean “his heart.”

Chumpette
Chumpette
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

NWB,

I think public approval of cheaters is a complex fugue state of, among many factors: ignorance, denial of own vulnerability, poor character, and never having been knowingly abused in this way. I also believe dark forces are at work in this mix.

I for one am cheerfully going forward with my own public education reform. One by one, I correct faulty assumptions about adultery, narcissism, blameshifting, etc. I have hope. After all, there was a time we humans believed the world was flat! and chewing sugar gum (anyone remember Dentyne?) was good for our teeth.

I am following the Good Wife tv show to see where they go with all the infidelities. Watched most recent episode with my college daughter and did not have do a public service announcement to correct misinformation. In fact, in this episode, all cheaters clearly sucked. Amen!

Btw, thanks for adding to my working vocabulary today. My education campaign is NOT be sotto-voce.

Chumpette
Chumpette
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

*is not/will not be sotto-voce

namedforvera
namedforvera
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpette

Similarly–I was recently ‘friended’ on FB by a woman I didn’t know, but we had many mutual acquaintances. I mentioned this to a friend and she said, “oh, you know she was the one who broke up so-and-so’s marriage, right?” Well, I didn’t– I didn’t know so and so (and from my POV of course,she’s the OW, and the husb in that marriage broke it.

However.

I hastily unfriended her. I didn’t make a stink, since I got the info 2nd had about a third had part…if it comes up, I certainly will ask though! Boundaries, people.

I don’t want to be make friends with cheaters, even if I don’t know it, if that makes any sense. I’ve been trying to come up with phrasing for a question to the OW if she re-contacts me…. like: so, did you cheat with so and so? Tell me, what was you role in the ending of his marriage? or, what?

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

If you ask her the latter comment, she’ll spin some lying blameshifting shit, no doubt.
I do the friend-cull too if someone has shitty behaviour – I have no patience any longer for people who are liars and cheaters of any description, be it relationships or otherwise.
Might suck to have learned this lesson before the age of 30, but I’d rather go through life not sticking my head in the sand. 🙂

Lulu
Lulu
9 years ago

First of all, Claire’s piece was horribly written. At least Esther Perel can string together a series of words coherently.

A few points

* I’m always impressed by how many flaws in a spouse’s character cheaters discover only *after* they become besotted with someone new.

* There are only 2 kinds of men who hook up with married women: (1) Scumbags who love conquest more than relationships and who are not at all interested in long-term commitment and (2) Extremely naive and delusional “white knights” who fool themselves into believing that they are “rescuing” poor, miserable women like Claire from their monstrous husbands. If 40 is a #1, he will be gone the moment she announces she’s leaving her husband. If 40 is a #2, he’s going to become quickly disillusioned by reality once we finds himself saddled with Claire and all her baggage.

* Assuming that Claire’s husband really is a drug-addled loser she portrays him to be — and yet she still chose to marry, have kids and purchase a home with him– then it’s fair to say that Claire is an extremely poor judge of character who repeatedly makes catastrophic life decisions. Therefore, why should anyone trust her assessment of the 40’s merits? Once she’s actually in a relationship with him, she’ll probably find a whole host of character flaws, maybe even some that make her husband’s drug addiction seem like a cake walk. Here’s the first red flag I notice: He was will to fuck her while she was still married and contribute to the break up of a family. A decent man would say, “Call me when the ink is dry on your divorce papers.”

Lulu
Lulu
9 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

P.S. I also know of a woman who cheated on her husband, who she referred to as a drug addict. The truth: He was severely injured in a construction accident and became addicted to pain killers in order to cope with the constant, excruciating pain. Talk about warping the truth to suit her narrative.

Karma Express
Karma Express
9 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

I hope the construction worker’s constant, excruciating pain diminished when his cheater wife left.

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

My STBX’s OW also claims her H has a drug problem. Thanks STBX for including someone married to a known drug user in your collection of whores and then coming home and having sex with me.

I wonder if Claire bothers to protect good ol’ 40 by using condoms.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

I hope the wife got the pain in the settlement.

Chumped n well
Chumped n well
9 years ago

It’s amazing how she starts the article justifying her affair – “marriage to a man with substance abuse etc”… And two paragraphs in she mentions ” while still married in a healthy, respectful relationship ….” Blah blah…. Is it just me or do all of you see this fucked up logic? If she was in a healthy relationship then why did she fuck around? If she was not (still no reason to fuck around) then why say it was a mutually respectful healthy relationship but also say it was his “substance abuse” problem that made me cheat – what’s mutually respectful or healthy in that – his issues or her mindfucking him after the fact?

This just shows how cuckoo they all are. Yuck!

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumped n well

Claire, exhibiting Rationalization 101.

Lina
Lina
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumped n well

I actually did a double take at that sentence too, but it turns out she just messed up the structure. I’m assuming she didn’t proofread it, because hey, people with poor impulse control don’t usually take the time to measure twice. She wrote: “This is about the man (let’s call him 40) that I have fallen head over heels, getting hit by a freight train, madly in love with and whether or not we will be able to translate a relationship started while I was still married into a happy, mutually respectful, healthy relationship.” And it can be reduced to this sentence: “This is about the man (OM) … and whether or not we will be able to translate a relationship started while I was still married into unicorns.” Unicorns being the happy, healthy relationship. That cheaters would be sooo good in creating, if only they weren’t chained down by the horrible person that is their spouse. That they themselves chose to marry. Ugh.

Chumped n well
Chumped n well
9 years ago
Reply to  Lina

Lina, thanks for pointing that out. Oh unholy hell – it IS very poor sentence construction n poor chumpy me read it to mean whether or not she can get the same mutually respectful healthy relationship she has (in her marriage now) in the future with Mr.40. I guess she was just mentioning in PASSING that she was married while trying to get into a mutually respectful healthy relationship with some other dude. Mind bogglingly SICK.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumped n well

When I first read that nightmare sentence, I actually thought for a second she literally meant the man she fell in love with had been hit by a train. LOL!

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumped n well

Chumped n well, this reminded me that my cheater said that one of his many APs who happened to be his longest AP that I know of, was unhappy in her marriage because her husband was addicted to porn. Now apparently she had no plans to leave her husband and my cheater had no plans to leave me so it was simply convenient, ongoing sex between them. Yeah, the convenience was that they did it in their cars at work or in nearby cheap hotels that rent by the hour. But I digress, as usual. She justified her cheating and he justified his….

Chumped n well
Chumped n well
9 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

Sick… There is no other word for it.

Liv
Liv
9 years ago

This is good however there are plenty of single moms with three kids in middle age who have been cheated on (I am one). Your last comment about stocks not being high for women in that position bites a bit. I trying to believe I am better off alone and even that someone may show up one day who is really great but I guess maybe I am overestimating my stock rating!

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Liv

Liv–you’re fabulous!! I’m sure you’ll have no trouble dating when you’re ready (just save coins to pay for babysitters!)

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

My therapist told me the same thing about my chances for finding a good relationship, given my age (0ver 60) and some other factors, including my involvement in some traditionally male areas of interest. She said that I will have a smaller pool to work from than some other women my age, and not just because they won’t be attracted to me, but because I am learning how to set my own higher standards. So I think lots of factors narrow the pool of potential partners, but far and away the most important one is kids, because (as we learn from dealing with APs), it really matters whom we allow into children’s lives.

conniered
conniered
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

This. All the chumps are here because we all thought we had what CL currently has. But no, it was ripped from us. We’d all rather be “alone” than with those who cheated on us. And when we DO get over it, it will be on our on time. So shut the hell up!!!

conniered
conniered
9 years ago
Reply to  conniered

Sorry. This comment was meant for Angie the troll. It got put under the wrong string when I hit the wrong button on the keyboard.

Armor clad
Armor clad
9 years ago
Reply to  conniered

Why is everyone who disgrees with Chumplady a troll. Chump lady was banned from SI. Is she a troll?

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  Armor clad

You that Sandra/other moron twit from SI under a different nickname, all pissy because you didn’t get your own way and have everyone fall to their knees in adoration after what you said?
Piss off.

Matt
Matt
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Hi Tempest,
I’ve been on SI since the beginning of 2013 and I haven’t seen a single person suggest that the betrayed spouse had done anything to cause the infidelity. Quite the opposite. In fact, it’s only the new members in JFO (Just found out) who come to SI with the naïve opinion that they did something to cause their spouse to cheat. They are very quickly corrected by EVERY single veteran on there. The entire site is focussed on either divorce and moving on or reconciliation under the strictest circumstances where the cheater demonstrates true remorse (not immitation remorse). I suppose it’s possible than it may have been different a couple of years ago, but it’s not like that now. At all

Matt
Matt
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

I have a lot of time for SI. It got me through a really tough time. Why is there an anti SI faction here? They provide support and aren’t pro cheater in anyway. The wayward forum is tough on cheaters, too.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Matt

Matt–I don’t think the sentiment is so much anti-SI (as a number of CL posters have used it); there is more anti-sentiment about SI trolls coming here to tell us to “stop being bitter” and move on, OR to encourage us to acknowledge that we caused our spouses to cheat by ignoring them.

If all they did was to say, “there is an alternative site for those who want to try reconciliation,” that is simply providing people with information. But one of the posters explicitly said to me that he wasn’t surprised my husband cheated on me (on a different day’s article). I can take it, because I don’t give a damn what a troll thinks, but there are a lot of people fresh off D-day who really cannot take even implicit hints that they did something to cause their spouse’s infidelity. Aside from being false, it is cruel to say that.

violet
violet
9 years ago
Reply to  Armor clad

So this is about SI again. Why do you think we give a shit if CL was banned on that site? Frankly, I could give a flying fuck about that site, so your comments make you look like a fool. In fact, while you claim the folks here are bitter, YOU are the one who seems to carry alot if bitterness. Perhaps your efforts to pretend that betrayal is just a fact of life aren’t working?

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  violet

Tempest:

If I toddle on, you know you will miss me. Be nice. No need to be angry with anyone who disagrees with you. What’s a betta fish? Is that something else American. I don’t understand your culture so well.

Can’t we all just get along. I know that’s an American slogan, I saw it on the news.

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  violet

Violet:

just an outside objective opinion. You DO sound bitter, and vulgar and disrespectful too. Are you going to attack me and curse at me now too?

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Hully

Hey Hully–I am vulgar, bitter, and disrespectful, and lovin’ every minute of it. I also have fighting betta fish with more compassion than you, so toddle on, dear.

Hully
Hully
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Chumplady:

I don’t see any disrespectful disagreement from armour clad. I just see disagreement from him. You however are disrespectful. Why? And your readers are making fun of his southern accent.

I agree with armour clad. I got past my spouse’s cheating. I love my spouse and if I ever cheat on my spouse we will stay together. Love is about more than sex. Affairs are just about lust. I haven’t cheated, but I am smart enough to know that anyone can be tempted if the sitch is right. But sex is not love. Some cheaters are ass wipes though. Not all.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  Armor clad

No, CL is not a troll. Whoever was responsible for banning her from SI is a troll.

conniered
conniered
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I have no doubts believing that dating will be harder for me than my STBXH simply because I do have custody of our son. IF a good man does decide to take a chance at being with me it will be because of my character. And he will know that my son comes first. I feel like such a damn cliche: mid-forties, divorced, with a child. It makes me sound like such a loser. And what makes it even worse is that I know the cheater makes up a false narrative about why he is divorced… and gets dates. He’ll never tell the truth and say he cheated. No. He says, “I wasn’t happy so I left.”.

ByeByeCheater, my STBXH did the same thing- no argument about custody and he has become the Disney Dad. He hasn’t even kept our son with him for an entire weekend yet. We’ve been separated since August 2014.

My son thinks I SHOULD get married. He’s 7. Poor kid didn’t know a divorced person before his Daddy cheated. How sad it that. It is so scary not knowing if I will ever find true love. My son has to be my priority if I am to continue to live with integrity and character. And that makes the dating pool much much smaller. Also, I am concerned that if I did have a relationship that was serious, there might be competition between my son and “my dude”. He will be a big guy (my son) so physically he could be intimidating. I don’t want “my dude” thinking he needs to have control over my son to boost his ego. He would have to be able to look at him and see him as a part of me and love him for who he is. And my son would have to feel that and trust him. So. Big challenges to face if a guy wants to be “my dude”.

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  conniered

This is a great way to teach your little boy a very valuable life lesson about being married to someone which is the icing on the cake of a mutual respectful relationship between two people who are loving and giving – and not just some random twit with crappy character.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Not to mention the kids themselves–my 13 year old (admittedly still reeling from a fairly recent D-day) has forbidden me to date until she leaves the house. While I’m sure even she realizes that that edict is a bit harsh, a surly teenager is probably not a selling point during dating.

namedforvera
namedforvera
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

As one of a trio of chumped sisters in law/sisters, all with kids, all between 50-62, I now believe it’s much more about age than kids: if you’re under/around 40 ish, regardless of having kids, you’re much more likely to find a new partner.

Those of us in the over 50 category? Well, let’s just say that men still “marry down” in terms of age, sociologically speaking, so our peers are looking at the forty year olds, and for the most part, we are S.O.L. It’s just a demographic reality. Of course there are exceptions, but they just prove the rule.

I think the deal is to find a way to make your life fulfilling without a partner. And that too is damnably hard, when everyone is coupled up. OTOH, how many of those couples are like my cheater Ex and his new sugar mama? Wouldn’t want that in my life for anything.

Me, I’m teaching my dog German–she’s great!

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

Teaching your dog German? Careful, she may become power hungry and start invading neighboring countries. She may form alliances with Japanese dogs and Italian dogs.

Digbert
Digbert
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

I strongly concur Namedforvera, in my early forties no kids (dating or contemplating dating is hard – kids or no kids- actually you may have the opportunity to meet more people whilst out and about with kids) and 3 years since DDay, online dating attempt last year a disaster. I couldn’t get past their profile preferences i.e. age preferred “18 – 35yrs ” and these guys are in their 40-50s !!!!! so I gave up, all the guys at work that aren’t married are dating younger ladies or married to the younger ‘foreign’ variety and plus there are so many red flags waving it seems much better to work on me……..

ChumpDad – pity there aren’t more guys like you around 🙂

Drew, I agree and I am out there but not meeting quality people because I seem to keep meeting potential Narcs and people like my XH, maybe my picker is on too high alert or I am too fussy, I make no apology for that, listening to my gut this time…………..

ChumpDad
ChumpDad
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

No all guys go younger. I’m 44 and my new friend is 50. My ex will be 50 next month. I can’t be the only one who prefers slightly older women… And I don’t mean those really young guys looking for cougars either.

Drew
Drew
9 years ago
Reply to  ChumpDad

Actually that’s a damn good match, Chumpdad! Women in their late forties and fifties rock. To all those dating or contemplating it, it’s just a matter of numbers. Dating and meeting a nice person requires meeting many people. You are not going to meet someone if you don’t change your routine either. Do new things. Take a class, enroll in dance lessons, etc. You don’t want someone just because it’s convenient. Meeting quality people is a bit like job hunting, you have to get out there and do it, with intention, and we all know how hard that can be! Too I think for those of us who haven’t jumped back into dating it’s because we have work to do or are happy just making our own life good. 😉

Kate50
Kate50
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

I’m worried about my age, just turned 50 in May and found out about my STBX in September of this year. The affair has been going on for 3 years, she works with him. I kicked him out and got a Lawyer. He’s such a LIAR! and Ass!

sam
sam
9 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

I’m in my early 50s and found a great new guy who is just a year older. Age is not a barrier. Please don’t be discouraged.

Lulu
Lulu
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

It’s also much harder to date when you don’t have chump spouse providing free babysitting when you’re off having sex with someone else.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
9 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

or, like mine, they don’t fight for custody and simply work out visitation so they see them once or twice a week for a short amount of time. This way they don’t have the responsibility of parenting and can be Disney dad/mom instead. They can lie to their new partners and tell thing things like 1) I did what my kid wanted 2) my ex lied and the courts believed them 3) I travel with my job too much to get custody, etc. etc. This really affords them the time to spend trolling for more sex partners and have sleep overs whenever and with whoever they want.

ChumpDad
ChumpDad
9 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

Sounds like my Ex. She did not want custody of the boys. She thought the kids would have a relationship with her AP. “He will be a part if their lives.” she told me. Now that she’s living with the asshole for the past 5 months, she has been seeing the boys less and less. Visitation night are now barely an hour long. Even the weekends are getting very short. She’s not even a good Disney mom. Her one weekend per month (her choice) is spent bouncing from one in-law house to another. But hey, she has dreamboat, old man, and a free lifestyle while I have to be the only real parent.

Kira
Kira
9 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

This to the Nth degree.

conniered
conniered
9 years ago
Reply to  Liv

I think CL meant that Claire’s stock wouldn’t trade well because she has lousy character. She’s a cheater. Not because she is a single mom with 3 kids.

Armor clad
Armor clad
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Chump lady, just because you got chumped don’t be bitter. Be happy and work on your marriage lest you end up chumped again. I was blindsided by my wife’s affair because I was too busy working. I wasn’t paying attention.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Armor clad

Well, armour clad, maybe you need to stop working.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
9 years ago
Reply to  Armor clad

Chump Lady…we need another bitterness bunny. Sorry armor clad, you got chumped (if you really did)not for any other reason than your wife has shitty character. You were too busy supporting your family and she was too busy having sex with someone that wasn’t you.

We don’t make excuses for cheaters here. Nobody is perfect in any marriage but working too much does not make it ok for the other spouse to cheat. Sometimes when that happens in grown up relationships; people who don’t have shitty character speak up and tell their spouse that they’re unhappy.

Chump Lady isn’t bitter. She’s happily remarried to a wonderfully, supportive man (scroll down, won’t you?) and she’s changing the conversation about infidelity. You know the one: everyone assumes that the betrayed spouse has done something to “cause the cheater to have an affair.”

We like the unvarnished truth here. Join us in a little reality won’t you?

Drew
Drew
9 years ago
Reply to  cheaterssuck

Cheaterssuck, you are on a fantastic roll today! I really enjoy reading your responses…So fierce! And lovely! You are spot on. People CHEAT because they have shitty character, loose boundaries, and crap life skills. My experience has made me bitter, but it’s only towards one disordered wingnut, not the whole species.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
9 years ago
Reply to  Drew

Thanks 🙂 I’m with you Drew. I’m only bitter about the one disordered wing nut but I’m getting closer to meh every day. I have faith that there are good men out there and maybe one day when I’m ready, I’ll meet one. In the mean time, I am just fine with being alone. I love chump nation!

Lulu
Lulu
9 years ago
Reply to  Liv

The difference between you and Claire is that once you are a single, you won’t have to lie about the reasons your marriage didn’t survive in order to avoid scaring off decent men interested in dating you.

Portia
Portia
9 years ago

The thing that always gives me the pips is the attitude of affair partners during the honeymoon stage. It is the attitude that she is special, and he is special, and that rules are for all the other “normal” people in the world to follow. It is the complete lack of practical analysis — where was 40 and what was he doing while she was married 9 years and having 3 children with someone who is addicted to substance abuse. Does she use/abuse substances, too? How about 40? How is the money going to work? Where are they gong to live? Does 40 have an X (or more) and children? How did they meet and decide it was ok because it was so special for them to have an affair? Will those special circumstances happen again in the future, especially if there is a stress element (like substance abuse) in the picture? How about if one of them just grows tired of the “special love” that is unbelievable and unsustainable?

The other attitude that makes me angry is the one that says “SOMEONE” will rescue me from this awful life I have helped create. You can try to run away from reality — but it always seems to follow you and prior acts and attitudes seem to catch up with you, too. A person can change himself/herself if he/.she wants to bad enough — but it’s not easy.

Sara
Sara
9 years ago

Well. Now that she’s reached the ripe old age of thirty. Thank Jesus there was no world wide way to embarrass myself twenty years ago with my own genius insight. But look on the bright side: Her kids can unearth articles about mom’s heartfelt adultery in years to come and scrapbook, or bring to therapy in torment, maybe even justify some genetic link to infidelity. We can only wonder what she’ll have for us by forty. I’m guessing she’ll switch teams entirely and really confuse the kinder.

How about the Golden Globe for best dramatic series going to The Affair.
Another blow to The Good Wife. Maybe 30 and 40 await a fabulous future after all.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Yeah, and I LOVED (sarcasm) the last minute thanks to the director’s (?) husband (had to be reminded to thank him by the actors standing behind her!), and the little pithy quote about how the show is a reminder to us about the sacredness of marriage, or some such shit! I admittedly have not watched the show, but, ummm, how does it attest to the sanctity of marriage, exactly?

OnTheMend
OnTheMend
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

In her defense, I am sure she was nervous and getting there but it looked bad for her – It would be intriguing now to watch it to find out what her comment on marriage is exactly (creator/producer) but I don’t think I have the stomach for it.

OnTheMend
OnTheMend
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

My SXH would say EVERY time I would watch The Good Wife … “There’s no such thing.” He’s hilarious. The OW tweeted her disgust that the wife did not know he was having an affair in The Affair. Sh**ty people made for each other.

Karma Express
Karma Express
9 years ago
Reply to  Sara

What would an adultery scrapbook look like? I bet it would have lots of glitter.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

A literal example of ‘glitter’ as follows:

If we were to review the ‘scrapbook’ of my xbf cheater’s history with me, we would see glitter all over the interior of my car and pictures of him cuddle facing with OW who is wearing a rather ugly glitter embellished sweater that no one with any fashion sense would be caught in.

Upon discovery of said glitter and pics, his weak ass explanation was ‘she’s an old friend and asked me to accompany her to an event’. Really? I mean, REALLY? You are living with me and you squire women around as their escort?

Turns out, while he was at the ‘event’, he was telling his ‘new friends’ they were welcome to hold their wedding at MY HOME. Yes! he told me this! Delusional idiot telling complete strangers that could use my home for their wedding!!!

BTW-Ms Fashionsenseless wasn’t an old friend–she was a Match conquest.

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

Hmmm….match.com….yeah….that’s where my ex met most of the women he cheated on me with.

Karma Express
Karma Express
9 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

Hesatthecurb, I had forgotten about your glitter in the car story when I wrote my snarky remark. I hope it didn’t trigger anything! Guess your XBF wasn’t sparkly enough that his ho had to add her own?

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

Karma—-no worries, my dear! I wasn’t triggered at all—just trying to be amusing by giving an anecdote of just how entitled, delusional, deceitful, morally decrepit (and all other negatives out there) the j’ off was.

Another anecdote—we met on Match (yeah, I know but it was my first attempt to meet someone well after my divorce and BOY, was I naive). In his profile, he referred to himself as ‘being transparent’. Yeah, he was. There was NOTHING inside of him. On the other hand, he was as transparent as mud.

I’m really getting close to ‘meh’ cos I am seeing more and more humor in his idiocy everyday. His life is really in the crapper right now and I couldn’t be happier for him.

Kira
Kira
9 years ago
Reply to  Karma Express

LOL at the glitter! And lots of pictures of the Cheater (self-absorbed). Because it’s all about THEM.

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Kira

… with most of it written in disappearing ink.

pookyand3
pookyand3
9 years ago

and selfies! lol

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago

My bio father was a narc and a cheater, and he did marry his OW. They were together for the rest of his life. Were they happy? I doubt it. Did he stop cheating? I have no idea, but doubt that too. He actually told my mother, shortly before marrying OW, that he “did not love OW,” but she “gave him his space.”

As for Claire, author of this pathetic article, at first I thought she was just gullible and deluded, but at the end, when I read her defensive “You most likely do not know the story of her marriage, and you do not know what sins were committed by both parties,” and her declaration that “Maybe her ex has forgiven her and she has forgiven herself. Maybe she has asked God for forgiveness,” well, then I could smell her disorder coming right through the screen.

Claire and her twu wuv won’t be together by the end of 2015 is my prediction. I hope her ex gets the kids and screws her over in the divorce as well.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

“He actually told my mother, shortly before marrying OW, that he “did not love OW,” but she “gave him his space.”

Oh GIO…I can’t tell you how often I have recently read comments like this from (especially) men. Seems that many of them really don’t love their spouse, but they marry them for other reasons. Makes me wonder if when the cheater utters those famous words, “I never loved you”, if they’re actually telling the truth.

I’m almost 3 years post D-day, and I’ve dipped my big toe into the dating wading pool. I’ll tell you, it’s SCARY out there. I’m convinced that there really aren’t a lot of ‘good men’ (and women) out there.

So, so sad.

Drew
Drew
9 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

If a cheater is incapable of love, that unconditional (ummm okay some conditions!) reciprocal kind, then I think it can be said that a selfish entitled disordered Narc can never “love” anybody. Think of the character traits we want to see in our significant others and then compare them to our exes’ choices. My ex falls in love with his dick first. Then he scrambles to make sense out of it.

kb
kb
9 years ago

Wow! This sure came on the right day!

Today, I picked up STBX’s “other” cell phone, only to see that OW had texted him not to contact her again because she’s tired of his games–apparently she’s under the impression that the divorce is going slowly because he’s accommodating me! Well, Schmoopie, the divorce is going slowly because he’s been slow about getting his documentation into the attorney. Divorce is a hassle. It’s much easier to have a Schmoopie for you Twu Wub and a spouse who’ll take care of the day-to-day stuff.

Anyway, I have seen these kinds of texts before. Schmoopie is probably drunk. She’s a drama queen, and once she needs money, she’ll realize that STBX is very good about giving her lots of money. He’s her White Knight, and she’s probably a BPD waif. I really hope they marry. I’m very nearly tempted to contact her to tell her that I’m stepping aside for Twu Wub to overcome all. 😛

How does this relate to Claire?

Well, Claire, I’m sorry you’re married to someone with a substance abuse problem. I don’t think you need to be married to someone like that. If you’ve tried Al Anon or other support services, if your STBX won’t go–well, there’s not a lot to work with there. But you should have seen a divorce attorney and done the right thing.

As it is, you’ve hooked up with someone who feels entitled to have sex with a married woman. Hint: married people have bit Off Limits signs on them. Your “40” thinks that he doesn’t have to follow those rules, which very likely means he doesn’t recognize that the Off Limits sign applies to him, once he marries you (if he does).

And you? Well, you feel entitled to cheat under the “right” circumstances.

So, two people who feel entitled to cheat are going to be monogamous?

Hah!

parkster80
parkster80
9 years ago

I do know 3 couples that have “made it” after starting off as cheaters. ne couple, she cheated on her husband when kid #2 was barely months old. Rumor has it had been cheating on him for a few years. Ended up splitting up from husband, moving bf in, and that was 15 years ago, it was weird at first, but he won the kids over, and they are one giant happy family. Crazy but true. I know of 2 other couples that ended up married and together after cheating. Not the best way to start, but we also cant be fatalistic in saying it isn’t possible, i think a small % might actually make it. I’m all for the chump nation support, but I do find it sometimes extreme on some points, i’m not sure if it’s to make ourselves feel better or what. Cheaters and cheating sucks, but what I find is usually the cheater goes off to live a happy life, and thats what makes it worse. n fact its when they stay that everyone is more miserable.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yeah, this is my comfort: “…but I’m not convinced the cheater goes off to “live a happy life.” I think they go off to live a superficial life.”

I, too, know several couples who started as an affair (Brad & Anglina, anyone?), but I can’t ever see XH as conveying the deeply committed love I had for him and had hoped for FROM him, to anyone … ever. He’ll always be shallow, and if his Schmoopie is OK with that, then I think they’ll do fine.

Persephone
Persephone
9 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

My XH is still with the woman he left me for, and they had a baby a couple of years ago. I have no idea if they’re happy or not. I kind of hope so, to be honest. That’s how meh I am — I wish him well.

parkster80
parkster80
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

completely agree with you CL. As with any relationship, it all comes down to the commitment from both parties. If Mr 40 isn’t into it or giving her more, then they are doomed. f both cheaters are all in, I can see it working, or working and then collapsing for whatever reason as most relationships do. I think I’ve learned relationships of all kind are not black and white and can not be categorized.

But I also completely agree that chumps need to move on and not wait and hope the cheaters new life goes sour just to get their revenge. The best revenge is to have the EX see you move on, regardless of how their own choices turn out.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  parkster80

It is true–I know 2 couples (including my brother) who have gone on to long-term marriages. However, in both, the same personality traits that caused strife in the first marriage (and the entitlement that helped lead to the affair) are present in the second.

angie
angie
9 years ago

Why is Chumplady still living in the past if she is happily remarried?

I fear her anger and bitterness have permanently broken her picker. Maybe? Yes? No?

Also she spends waaaaaay too much time focused on her past negative spouses. So much time that I fear she will spend too much time wallowing in negativity and ruin her new marriage. Not to mention all the time she wastes here focusing on long dead relationships.

take heed chump sycophants. The lady’s attitude and entrenchment in the past is toxic, IMO. Run. Ruuuuuun like the wind. Stop focusing on the past. Move on. Forgive your spouse or don’t, but for cripes sake move on,

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  angie

Aah, another patronising condescending prick who is probably a cheater themselves.
Whats with all these fuckwads coming out of the woodwork today? Fuck off.

Lania
Lania
9 years ago
Reply to  Lania

PS: ‘I think’ you will spend too much time focussed on this website too, but I guess the coin doesn’t fall that way because you’re ‘special’.

somuchhurt
somuchhurt
9 years ago
Reply to  angie

I thank God for chump lady, chump nation and this site everyday! When I was searching the internet for help after my DDay all I could find were websites telling me to forgive someone who just murdered my heart and soul! BS!! I wasn’t buying that crap….and I was never so grateful when I found this site!

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
9 years ago
Reply to  angie

Perhaps you’ve not read much of what is going on here. I see very little about CL’s ex. I see a fair bit of information about cheating spouses.

The funny thing is, they all operate from a very similar script. Those who’ve been betrayed could probably recite the lines.

— I love you, but I’m not in love with you.

— It’s not you, it’s me.

— We should have never married.

— If you loved me, you would have known what to do.

— Don’t you want me to be happy?

— If you got to know him, you would like him.

— We’re soul mates.

— We’re just friends.

I could go on. The cheater’s playbook and script is well worn and seems to be universally used.

If one is a new betrayed spouse, getting the proper translation of what these utterances mean is crucial to the emotional and often physical survival of the betrayed spouse.

That’s not bitterness, that’s pragmatic and practical assistance during a difficult time.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Thank you; excellent response.

Nain
Nain
9 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

If we never discussed the past and the wrongs in it dear Angie – how could progress be made in any context? Guess it would be “OK” to have to endure the holocaust or slavery or spousal abuse, rape, etc. and just move on. Angie, as CL’s husband states, we are victims of entitlement. It’s “OK” for us to discuss. We realize then how common, how weak and how base cheaters are. So we learn and grow. I “When you know better, you do better.” M. Angelou

kimmy
kimmy
9 years ago
Reply to  angie

Angie…….once something monumental happens in your life, something life changing, it is part of your life forever. My husband cheating on me and breaking my heart and stealing my faith in human nature is part of my life forever. The cheating is long over now. My heart is healing. My faith in human nature is being restored. But the past is always with you. It doesn’t ever leave you. This site helps those suffering from trauma to begin healing. It helps to express anger, fear and to know you are not alone.

I think the bigger question is why you are here on this site at all? To pass judgement?? To argue?? Why do you care what we say or think? Just curious………..

YY
YY
9 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

Kimmy:

If you loved your spouse you would have forgiven him.

Meanwhile, don’t be too trustful. Ever. Don’t even trust yourself. There is no one that is immune to an affair, if the circumstances are right and the person is a human being inhabiting earth and has a pulse that actually beats.

BTW: Did you know that a very large percentage of people who have been cheated on go on to cheat on their next spouse, according to some studies. Sounds ghastly and surreal but it happens. And, the people who claim they will never ever never cheat are typically the ones most likely to cheat. Shite happens. That’s life. Get real.

FeralBlue
FeralBlue
9 years ago
Reply to  YY

If I had really loved my husband, I would have forgiven him?

I DID love him. Which is why I never cheated on him, “opportunity” be damned.

I have forgiven him. He’s an entitled twat chaser that I am better off without. May he be ever so happy that his 3rd marriage doesn’t tank. Because he contacted me after his 2nd marriage to the other woman did. *eye roll*

I refused to “mask, ignore, overlook, cling to a mirage.” that my marriage turned out to be.

Cheating is proof that HE didn’t love me. It never mattered that I loved him. People who love you don’t go do shit that would break your heart. Even if getting their rocks off was the primary goal and your pain was simply collateral damage.

You act like, given a chance, everyone would cheat. Or given an outstanding opportunity. I’ve never cheated. We have a choice in this. We can look that “opportunity ” in the face and DECIDE not to do something horrible. We could all steal, murder, and defraud our insurance companies too. …..oooooo… I’m guessing we should check your criminal record. You’ve already told us that given the opportunity, you’d decide to do all of that too.

Tempest
Tempest
9 years ago
Reply to  YY

Ooh, YY–your post raises more questions. Do trolls have pulses? Do they have hearts or just gears? Do they nurse their young or feed them mashed up food (like birds)? Do you prefer to live under bridges, or is that just convenient? Sorry to bother you, curiosity always gets the better of me!

Drew
Drew
9 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

This!

ChumpsOfHumanity
ChumpsOfHumanity
9 years ago
Reply to  angie

I don’t post here very often but I do visit daily. It is therapy for me. There were days I could barely get out of bed. Chump Lady is helping me through one of the most horrible moments of my life. She is no saint but darn close. So FUCK OFF!!!

Chumpalongtime
Chumpalongtime
9 years ago

This is my first post.and I must say that CL has saved my life and sanity. Because of her, I was able to leave ass wipe and begin Divorce! Before finding her, I was ashamed, confused and thought I was insane. My friend finally convinced me to check out CL. Yeaaaaa! I have a life again! I have the words to speak to the turd ass and anyone else. I ripped my MC a new one when he tried to say “It takes two.” No it doesn’t!!!! AND THEN I TOLD HIM TO CHECK OUT CL!!! He sings a different tune now!!
One day I will write my story. I’m a pretty big chump but until then much love to CL. And I payed it forward and referred a friend- now CL is saving her also. Much love to Chump Nation!!! Also shout out to Calamity Jane…we have to be within a stones throw of each other

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalongtime

Yay, Chumpalongtime! Glad you wrote.

Chumpalongtime
Chumpalongtime
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Thank you. You all are amazing and inspiring. CL truly rocks and how wonderful that her daily post seems to address my question or doubt. CL saved my life… Because POS is the great manipulator.

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  angie

Angie, are you Claire?

Buddy
Buddy
9 years ago