Cheating Wife Reads Esther Perel
He’s separated from his cheating wife, but she left a copy of Esther Perel’s “Mating in Captivity” around for him to discover. WTF?
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Hi Chump Lady,
I am unfortunately a newer member of the Legion of Chumps (five months in from D-Day 1). Your blog has become a shining light bursting through the fog of infidelity apologists (Esther Perel chief among them).
My wife and I are separated.
Her emotional affair (likely physical before) escalated into a physical affair, upon which she demoted me to the side piece from February through May (D-Day 2 and day one of separation). We have a three-year-old son whom we are co-parenting at our home on days in which we individually have him. This leads to an occasional interruption to the cone of silence. It sucks, but it is inevitable as we navigate limbo in lead up to divorce.
It is important to note that she is “ambivalent” and wants to continue to see the affair partner. As painful as that might seem, it is quite the blessing for my own psyche because it has freed up my mind from its own blameshifting-induced guilt and confusion toward the situation.
Today, one of my parenting days, I noticed a small paperback book on the bookshelf that I hadn’t seen there in the previous days at home. Curious, I walked closer to get a glimpse. Before I could even pick up the book I saw “Esther Perel” on the binding and let out an audible “you stupid fucking bitch.” (Apologies for the crass language).
Mating in Captivity read across the title.
Mating … in captivity? Captivity …
Eight years ago when we spoke our wedding vows and signed up for a life of love, support and (wishful thinking I suppose) happiness, I didn’t realize that the officiant was a warden.
It wasn’t my first encounter with Perel. Back in February when my cheating wife led me to believe her affair was only emotional (she still insists this to be true but I’ll believe that when STDs transmit through hugs), she mentioned Perel as someone she wanted us to listen to and read. A quick Google search elicited a pretty strong reaction from me. I was not fooled by the flowery language and exuberant platitudes of her dribble. (I’m sure Herpes and Chlamydia enjoy her nonsense but not sure what else benefits).
Now, six weeks into separation, seeing that book in plain sight is all I needed to know where my wife’s head is at (several inches up her own ass smelling her own colon and telling herself isn’t this rosy?).
Anyways, I just wanted to let you know that I immediately thought of Chump Lady when my brain went into “What tools do we have to deal with this bullshit?”
I wish I weren’t a member of the Legion of Chumps but I’m not ashamed of it anymore.
Cheers,
Brandon
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Dear Brandon,
Welcome! I’m not surprised your cheating wife is an Esther Perel fan. Of course she is. Who better to swaddle her in an impermeable cloak of invincible entitlement than the Empress of Word Salad?
Your wife didn’t cheat. No! She committed an exuberance act of defiance! She was on a noble quest to feel more alive!
Do people judge her? They are puritanical! Provincial! And never wash their hair. You cannot expect the unwashed to understand Esther’s Euro sophistication.
Oh sure, people were hurt.
(Sniffs. Looks around. Speaks to an errant dust bunny…) But they should really get over that. It’s not the cheater’s quest for aliveness that hurts chumps, but their own silly expectations of monogamy. Don’t you understand that fucking strange has ignited an erotic energy in your wife that is far more important than your personal well-being?
I think you should create a list of all the ways you failed to enchant. Then thank your cheating wife, because Esther Perel says that extracurricular fucking makes a marriage stronger! Aren’t you grateful for this chance at a new beginning? And antibiotic resistant gonorrhea?
Okay, I have to stop before I puke.
Yes, of course your cheating wife loves Esther Perel.
Leaving a copy of Mating in Captivity around is just a bit of passive-aggressive mindfuckery.
Eight years ago when we spoke our wedding vows and signed up for a life of love, support and (wishful thinking I suppose) happiness, I didn’t realize that the officiant was a warden.
Exactly. Who benefits from the narrative that marriage is captivity? Cheaters.
Captivity implies there is a total lack of consent. You were locked in a cage and your oppressor holds the key. Versus, we are two adults with agency who made choices. Your cheating wife cannot bear accountability. So she prefers the narrative that lets her off the hook. What choice did she have? SHE WAS CAPTIVE! She had to chew at the restraints that tethered her to the bedpost of commitment!
My advice to you is full speed ahead on that divorce. And next time it’s your turn to parent, place a copy of “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life” on the nightstand.
Turnabout is fair play.


Brandon,
There’s a high road to be taken here if you choose it. You could leave a copy of LACGAL on the nightstand for her, but in your shoes I wouldn’t; just because you can doesn’t mean that you should (or to quote CL herself, “if it feels good then don’t”).
I would channel the solicitor who represented me in my divorce, who told me “Until your Divorce is finalised and you have your Decree Absolute in your hand, don’t do, say or commit to writing to her anything that you wouldn’t be comfortable explaining to either your Mother in Law or the Judge overseeing your case.” You don’t know how your soon to be Ex would perceive or spin you leaving LACGAL on the nightstand, and the downside of this approach is that she would control the subsequent narrative ….. “creating a hostile atmosphere, trying to unbalance me blah blah blah …. he’s the bad guy here.” etc etc.
And lastly, remember that the opposite of love is not hate; it’s indifference.
Be indifferent.
LFTT
Yes, if it feels good (and a judge is watching) don’t do it. But I needed a rhetorical flourish to end my essay and that was it.
Okay, no passive-aggressive leavings on the nightstand. For now. But once the divorce is final I would buy 13 copies of LACGAL and active-aggressively put one on the nightstand, one in the sheets, one in each bathroom, one in the freezer, one in her car, one in child’s toy chest, etc. Not that the ex would learn anything except that Brandon is effing serious, this betrayal is for life.
CL,
Such is the respect that I have for you and the righteous work that you do, I considered apologising for contradicting you when I drafted my posting!
I love a good flourish (rhetorical or otherwise) as much as anyone, but I also know that there are times when one should “poke the bear” and times when the one should most definitely not. In Brandon’s case, I suspect that his bear is best left “unpoked” at the moment.
LFTT
My bear changes form from week to week but is currently content with a belly full of honey.
Yeah, yeah. If not Perel, there are plenty of others out there.
I had never heard of her until someone in my divorce recovery group brought her Mating in Captivity book up as “groundbreaking.” I read a little bit about it online and said to myself, “Sounds like my ex, not for me.”
Chump Lady and Divorce Minister remain my truth-tellers.
Reply: “Great, go be defiant over there by yourself.”
It’s funny that it’s apparently OK to engage in acts of exuberant defiance in a marriage, but the other person is somehow duty bound to remain and accept it? What if my act of “exuberant defiance” was to light the family car on fire? I’m sure that’s different, somehow.
That’s fine, I’m perfectly happy to be divorced. I get to walk down the streets, dragging my unsophisticated knuckles across the ground, holding my chin up as high as my hunch will allow me. If only I could appreciate the joys of remaining in a marriage with the other person cheating on me whenever they aren’t getting their way!!! Curse my narrow mindedness!!! [shakes hairy, calloused knuckles at the clouds].
In the moment you are in, the placement of that book feels galling and obnoxious. With several years of hindsight, it actually feels a bit hilarious and pathetic that these cheaters think they have “won” some sort of grand argument. My ex is not a “prize.” I paid good money to get her out of my life.
You just don’t yet appreciate the rewards of being a captor.
Exactly! “I’m going to do this and you are going to deal with it!” is the fuckwit mentality.
And I agree. Let that idiot “win” whatever imaginary crusade she is on(because of course breaking your heart, betraying you, and spitting on everything you built for HER along with all of the open disrespect and exposure to whatever STIs are floating around these days CLEARLY isn’t punishment enough for whatever transgressions there were, real or very likely imagined.)
Agree – let them take the “win.” If they surround themselves with the types of people who think their actions are some sort of Profile in Courage, then those aren’t your people anyway.
More like….Profile in Chlamydia.
Well, there’s nothing ambivalent about that. That’s a definite choice she’s making, and he can have her.
Clearly she’s ambivalent about suddenly running a household by herself AND getting her jollies.
I wouldn’t do that until after the divorce is final. Why tip your hand? Quietly and effectively get your attorney to set you up with the best divorce settlement possible and then grey rock her until that happy day when you no longer have to deal with her except from a frosty distance. If that.
It’s incredible to me to consider how much misery that woman has brought to so many people around the world. I guess she believes it’s just the opposite, but you can only believe that if you think a cheater’s happiness is more important than a chump’s.
If Perel wants to advocate for “open” marriages, fine. But she seems like the clear enabler of secret cheating. What a legacy.
Agreed. An open marriage is not for me. If it works for others, have at it. But that doesn’t actually seem to be her message. I actually get frustrated every time I see her name not even for all the damage she’s done which is considerable, but for her success when her stance isn’t NEW at all. She’s defending cheating. Period. It would be one thing if she wrote books like “Before you marry, consider this” or “A different kind of marriage: what you should consider about fidelity BEFORE you take that vow”. Is she wanted to be a voice for a new age where people consider open marriages and polyamory as more mainstream and viable options that would be different. Heck, it might reduce the # of chumps added to the world daily if those that are not meant for monogamy chose not to get married to those who do.
But defending cheating AFTER the marriage is not new, groundbreaking or noble. It’s lame. “Mating in Captivity”? My FW proposed to ME. Yes, I happily said yes. But he was NOT pressured to do so in anyway. I wasn’t in a rush though we both always anticipated that we would get married at some point. I’m certainly not his jailer and resent the implication.
There are probably some legit cases where a couple gets married and then later they decide TOGETHER to open the marriage. Not my thing, but I understand that some people are into that. THAT isn’t what Perel is talking about either.
She’s talking about cheating. Cheating isn’t just extracurricular sex, it’s all the sneaking and betrayal that make it so hard to get over. If an open marriage is not a secret and both spouses are aware and agreed before it started, that isn’t betrayal.
I think that deep down some therapists think it is easier to work with a non-disordered person in a marriage than the other. What I mean is one spouse is more open to changing and working and growing so then the therapist puts the onus on them rather than the disordered one. I mean we know it takes years of good therapy for a person to actually develop tools and change in a meaningful way, with the disordered, it is not likely to happen. Most people would like to take the path of least resistance.
That could be. I also think that there are inherent, structural impediments to any couples therapy working. The first is the dual representation – I don’t think a therapist can effectively represent both people in a relationship. Essentially, a therapist in this situation is representing an incorporeal, abstract “third” client – the marriage itself.
This brings me to the second aspect: the objective of couples therapy is inherently flawed. If a couple engages with therapy with the objective of “repairing the marriage,” then the therapist is going to try and do that. With infidelity, that involves a chump resigning themselves to the fact that they are trying to fix a relationship with a person who is not committed to abiding by any rules.
An objective therapist should be able to look at a relationship like that and say to the clients “this marriage should not continue,” but they can’t, because they were asked to save it. This comes to the ultimate structural impediment: money. If the couple is paying to fix the marriage, then the therapist does not make as much money if they correctly point out after 3-4 sessions that the marriage is toxic and should be terminated. If I am being paid by the hour to drain the ocean with a bucket, then it makes no sense for me to say to the employer “this is impossible, and you should spend your money on a boat.”
“This brings me to the second aspect: the objective of couples therapy is inherently flawed.”
Exactly. And then the messages from these therapy sessions get sent out to the world at large and seep into the “greater consciousness”. A couple goes to therapy after cheating and says they want to save the marriage, and like you said, the therapist’s job is to help to that end.
So the therapist tells the chump, you need to forgive your FW and not continue to bring the affair up for the rest of your lives or this won’t work. They aren’t entirely wrong. But really the correct answer is more “you will never truly forgive and get past this if you stay with the person who did this to you. So you need to get out” But the couple came to them to save the marriage, not to save the chump, so that isn’t said.
And then that message gets spread far and wide “if only the chump could forgive the FW and move past the cheating, the marriage could be saved and all the more stronger for it.” Then suddenly it is us chumps that ended the marriage out of bitterness, not the FW and their cheating.
And the saddest part is that early on a LOT of chumps WANT to believe it is fixable. There are the super mighty few who see the full scope immediately. But so many of us, myself included, took awhile to get there. And never mind the emotional aspect of losing your marriage, there all lots of other shit sandwiches to contend with like splitting assets, seeing less of your kids etc I remember wishing for a time machine, if we could only go back to the day before he started this affair and have things go differently.
Yes to all of that. And, in addition, in the eyes of the law a person will lose the ability to claim fault divorce for adultery if they make efforts to reconcile. A Chump gets completely screwed if they attempt reconciliation and then later decide that they can’t take it. “Forgiveness” becomes a weapon to beat you over the head with.
Which is why I would never work in marriage and family therapy. I will never support reconciliation; the chances are around 1% maybe.
“you can only believe that if you think a cheater’s happiness is more important than a chump’s.” Yes … or you can only believe that if you don’t agree that cheating is abuse. If a couple came to a therapist and it was disclosed that the husband was beating her daily with a belt, it would be preposterous to call it an “exuberant act of defiance” and then turn to the spouse and say “let’s talk about how your actions contributed to his [insert ridiculous euphemism for torturous abuse].” It would be lunacy to expect that person to stay in the marriage with the promise that this will make the marriage stronger! What it will teach the husband is that “beating my wife with a belt is a great way for me to get the things I want, and there will be no consequences.”
What needs weren’t you meeting that made him hit you with a belt?
And sadly, I have been asked almost the identical question in therapy — with more than one therapist.
“What were you doing that made your mother hit you with a belt?”
“What were you doing that made your husband decide to slam you through the drywall?”
“And what were you doing that made him so angry he strangled you?”
Right? I mean, it’s going to be “you aren’t fulfilling my ‘need’ of [fill in the blank].” It could be more sex, more date nights, or pot roast every Thursday. It doesn’t matter because it’s always going to change. Why? Because you are conditioning the cheater to expect rewards for their actions. For couples therapist who presumably have a degree in psychology, they sure seem incapable of recognizing operant conditioning when they see it.
First, a FW identifies something they “need.” They then act out by cheating. Then, what is the response? It’s either positive reinforcement: 1) I get validation from the therapist and Esther Perel, 2) I get my Chump to jump through hoops to please me and provide me with my “need,” and 3) I get sex with other people as a cherry on top; or it’s positive punishment: divorce. How would a psychologist predict that the FW will act in the face of positive reinforcement?
Ultimately, I can’t control the RIC, or Esther Perel, or FWs, or a culture of indifference. I can control access to me. My FW is not entitled to access to me.
Maybe you should leave a copy of “The Sociopath Nextdoor” as your own commentary on the situation? 😜 Glad you found your way here, Brandon.
Nice. The only thing I would leave is a Complaint for Divorce delivered by a process server, followed by a copy of the Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum that will be delivered to the affair partner.
While chumps have hopium cheaters have anesthesia FROM YOUR PAIN. They do not feel, they only feel their OWN PAIN and the hit to their entitlement. Leaving books, crying, shouting, wringing hands triggers NOTHING but a buzzing sound to STOP. STOP IT ! There is no help for a Chump that tries to talk sense. If they do seem to hear you it’s because they aren’t ready yet..or as my last cheater said, he had not found the one to move in with yet. Mating in captivity shouldn’t be happening. Once you find out Esther is installing her app in your mates head, its already top late. Once you open a cage door you
you have only wild left.
This is so true! I was chumped twice by my FW STBXH. I had hopium, I did the pick me dance, I did the RIC path, I did everything in my power to “fix”the marriage. But what needed fixing was him. The problem with that is, he doesn”t think he has a problem. This is the “3rd” love he told me. After 37 years of marriage, he loves me but….isn’t “in Iove” with me anymore. There is a whole blog on that line too! I have recordings of his conversations with the OW telling her this and that he bears the sin of adultery but isn’t ashamed it was with her. He said to her ” you are not some trailor park trash, you are a good person”. Yes a good person who cheated on her husband (with mine) he divorced her 3 year ago and MY FW kept that a secret from me! I know this POS OW. She can have my FW wrapped in a bow from me! Let her wash the shit stained sheets (at 67 he doesn’t know how to effectively wipe his ass)!. Let her take care of him when he can’t walk anymore because of his arthritic knees, let her take care of him when he can’t get it up because of prostate issues. LACGAL set me straight. I love this blog and CN. We get it! Brandon you are doing the right thing!
Chump37. There is a movie I just watched called Food and Romance. It is a Finish film so English subtitles…still, there is a magnificent scene where the cheated on wife…takes her cheater husband( who was injured in a fall caused by Chump finding out about cheating and showing him his lovers breast pic on his phone he had left unattended ) anyway, she dumped Cheater into his wheel chair and delivered him to the front door of OW for HER to take care of him now. She was done!!! That is how I feel now. She can have him. Bipolar, mood swings, rude, arrogant entitled, and no control of his urges. ByeAqq
PS..they deserve each other, your STBX and my new X..deserve their OW..
I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this but in the past when I’ve had a cat clamor to be let out (in an apartment building where I knew they couldn’t really get into the wild) sometimes I’ve actually opened the door and let them out. And then I watch them. Almost invariable they’ll either stay close to the apt door or go a ways down the hall and then just freeze. They don’t know what to do anyway. Usually they just come back home because they don’t know what to do with the freedom once they get it. This kind of reminds me of that.
Yes Mehitable- also try to get a wild ally 🐈 cat tame..bring them inside the house…You always have to watch the door. Wild cat police. IMO once a person cheats, that wild taste of ” freedom becomes a white knuckle-12 step program affair. Then you have a prisoner who is always looking to get out.Who wants that?
Absolutely. I did have an “alley cat” and we took him in for what turned out to be, alas the last year of his life. He was pretty ill by that point but we fixed him up as well as we could and try to make him a good home. We both loved that little guy, he had so much personality and such a good boy considering all he went through. But he ALWAYS WANTED TO GO OUT and if we tried to keep him in he’d yowl, and we just couldn’t have that (neighbors). So we’d let him out. He always came back till the last time….which was Christmas Eve of all things. We had a bad turn in the weather, he didn’t come back and we couldn’t find him. It was so sad, my husband was devastated especially. But once they go wild, it’s so hard to keep them in.
Haa!!! SUCH A GOOD STORY
MEHITABLE! Perhaps that is more like being the marriage police and / or allowing an open marriage..like your open door at night. Some of us chumps close our eyes and hope our alley cat JUST COMES HOME TO US..We love them so much. But they could bring tics, flees, claws, kittens and a host of other ickies..that some volunteers..sorry..(not chumps after you know right?) Allow because they love their alley cat. Certainly that is understandable but the risks are all on you. No I couldn’t sleep under my beloved cheater once I knew. But that’s me. I got out but not before STI,UTIs and my mental health were tattered by the unknowing pick me dance. I couldn’t do it. Let that wild cat out on his own and locked the door.
Exactly: only their own pain matters. On the day of my mother’s funeral, my FW made a sad, downcast face and told me with a tear in his eyes, that he’d “lost his biggest fan.” A few minutes later he was happily over-stuffing himself with the reception food, and then making a beeline for the table of all women.
Principles life..THOSE TEARS were the hardest illusion to break. It was the HARDEST. My XHCheater would put my fingers under his eye lids so I could feel his sorry. He did it our whole marriage. I was not a crier so he showed me at Sad movies and funerals etc that he cried …he “proved “to me by all his tears that he could FEEL. But he could not actually feel as time progressed. ….I saw that reptilian cold look under his mask sneaking through and at the end he told me how surprised he was he didn’t cry anymore. Not when his dad or mom died, not when D day happened …he told me he felt nothing but his own suffering when HR was investigating his sexual behavior at work, which he fully blamed on OW. I was stunned. Still am…by the lack of humanity.All his tears mirrored human emotions, he copied my sadness and my emotions, but he had none of his own. Just WOW, I married a professional.actor and paid him with my trust.
There is no empathy with these people. They remind me of the AI robots with the human faces and emotion, who respond with (programmed) humor and warmth to the human they are interacting with, but can easily switch to telling the human that AI will eventually kill all humans, and they think this is a logical and good decision that they fully support. It is shocking when you figure out people with no empathy, like stepping on a grenade.
My attorney coined the phrase ” He has no empathy and no regard for the law” in relation to my STBX. We repeated that a number of times.
Principledlife…my.mind could not even wrap itself around such an act. Thar is what took me so long to get out. My mind and even my body could not compute betrayal such as the level I experienced. Incomprehensible. Even those that say they get it…it takes years to run through all the curtain calls of this experience.
Yes a road side bomb
If she was in captivity so were you. You have every right to leave the cage and divorce if it no longer suits you.
Exactly. This is clear. Cheater thinks cheating is a healthy part of marriage, she/he is now free to go and marry the co-cheater and they can cheat their way through a blissful marriage. Chump can then find someone who shares their idea of a healthy marriage.
WHY do they get MARRIED again? Forced into ANOTHER CAGE in front of WITNESSES and promise again????
Marriage legitimizes them (in their minds).
All good now with impressive impression management…. and a location wedding never hurt the FB PAGE
Ha! Nice point.😁
I think they do want the normal stuff, and I think many of them don’t really realize what they troubled person they really are. They may even mean it when they marry; but just can’t do the distance. Some are scammers from the get go.
I still don’t understand how someone who decides they don’t want to be married can live with themselves while just creating a secret life and lying and conning the person who trusts them. What do these folks see when they look in a mirror.
Susie Lee..when you are used to cooking with margarine you don’t appreciate the subtle flavors of fresh butter. When you’re not aware of unselfish true love within yourself, you have no idea what you lack. You don’t know the difference.
Nicely put, 2xchump!😁
I think they get married for appearances (of normalcy) and convenience (someone to do shit for them).
Mehitable- missing the cage? Missing the “normal “..glossing over their wild run for the border?, trying to fit in again? Liking the cake experience, the frission of deceit? Maybe it’s different for each one. Mine liked the comforts of home. Each cheater x2 Said I ran a good home. Kept the cage fresh and clean. Made healthy smoothies did the laundry, available for ho hum sex..an air of normal. Being of use.
The lack of appreciation for the great work that so many chumps do amazes me.
Never a thank.you or a please or an I’m sorry. I accepted that
“of use” yes it seems to boil down to that for so many. Until their house of cards fall, or they useful chump is no longer needed.
I was always needed for a paycheck, for care of his children from his first marriage, for care of his depressed and unstable father for 29 years..for sex, for sick care of his moods. Until his dad and mom died, until his kids grew, until he had stashed enough money, found OW for sex…I aged out.
Brandon – If I were you, I would assume she is recording your every move and every word. Even if it’s illegal. She’ll be looking for ways to convince the court that she is a victim and you are evil incarnate, so she’s justified in her actions.
So, no more comments that could easily be considered hostile. Go to the park when you want to swear and wait until your child can’t hear you mumble.
My ex had taken off to another state, but my attorney (aka “Grandpa with an iron rod”) told me to watch how I talked about my ex unless I was in person, not in my house with proven, safe people, and to keep everything business-like and neutral with everyone else. My kids were in college, but he said not to discuss it with them or anyone who is possibly pro-STBX because there might be a leak. He also said nothing online, and to be thoughtful about texting/cell calls until it was final and to move everything over to a separate email account from the one my STBX was using to communicate.
Thankfully, we settled it without court, but based on what I told my attorney and because of the attorney my ex chose, he was fully expecting a trial. It didn’t happen, though.
Brandon,
First off, please do not refer to her as a “stupid fucking bitch.” That is extremely disrespectful…to the stupid fucking bitch population who would rather not be associated with this moron. ^_^
I think your head is in about the right place for where you are(I am about 5 months further down the line from you on the whole D-Day process.) I am detecting the correct amount of snark for the mindfuck you are experiencing and you are in good company here.
“Mating in Captivity.” Wow. seriously. Like…what right of hers are you violating by being married to her, demanding things like honesty, respect, and fidelity? Do you feed her once a day and make sure she bathes?(On second thought-never mind-if your fuckwit is anything like mine, yes, you probably actually are her caretaker.)
I mean, most zoo animals mate for life from what I understand-else they learn to tolerate each other enough to coexist without even passive hostility.
The “exuberant act of defiance” narrative seems in my mind’s eye to indicate a fundamental belief that the chump is superior-you need not defy what is not an authority to you. There are better ways to assert equality. For example: not committing emotional abuse.
Mine did not leave Ester Perel lying around. Mine wanted us to read “The Ethical Slut” together “as it would make our relationship stronger”(this after I had already shut down the “open relationship” thing-the fuckwit was already cheating and did not want the guilt any longer.) I love the lack of tact on that one-I already said no, but “maybe if we read this book together.” She also didn’t like that I wasn’t “all in” on the book. I read the jacket copy and noped out-particularly since I already said no and to work on the relationship she already had.
Which in fairness she did. Just not with me. Until she finally left after an additional 10 months of mindfuckery, DARVO, and financial abuse. I guess I wasn’t good enough to be faithful to committed to but good enough to make sure she got up for work and class on time and made sure she was fed and her bills were paid.
Look, I’m glad when stupid people finally read books. God knows mine couldn’t even read her college textbooks(and there were serious doubts about her reading comprehension to begin with.) I think they just take the couple of core concepts their little brains can handle and discard the rest-else latch on to it wholesale because “it’s in a book.” There is less editorial than ever-having something on paper does not make it valid. I don’t know-I refuse to reading anything about “Ethical Sluts” or anything Ester Perel writes-I imagine the illustrations and the word finds take up space where perfectly good information could actually go.
So I deeply know the pain of “demoted to side piece in my own committed relationship.” The whole “hey, I’m going to give you table scraps-thank you for keeping YOUR promise while I go out and do whatever I want because I shouldn’t have to keep promises if it turns out that they require effort or any discomfort on my part.”
If we use the “job” analogy, during my entire career I can think of maybe two instances where somebody got demoted and stuck around. She demoted you. Now you need to demote HER!
What I see with the open marriage bullshit is that usually when the Chump takes up on that offer and goes to find someone else….Cheater gets hysterical and suddenly gets religion. I don’t think they think Chump is actually going to do OM, because that’s a big reason they married Chump – Chump is reliable and faithful and probably not a sexual adventurer (or he or she wouldn’t be married0. So anytime that suggestion comes up, I’d probably go along with it and even schedule a date or two just to drive the point home. The marriage is over anyway when someone suggests that (they’re already cheating and definitely not in love with Chump) but I like the idea of exposing hypocrisy. Very few people actually believe in open marriage, it’s what happens when you don’t give a shit about each other anymore and just stay together – usually for money/resources/appearances, not even for the kids. That’s what I’ve seen anyway.
Good analogy. Instead of being his beloved wife (cough, cough), I got demoted and chose to take that as a message to go my own way.
Out of financial desperation, I worked in retail during the divorce (one of three jobs I juggled at once); it was indeed such a toxic situation that I had to continuously remind myself that I was keeping things going for my kids and me, period. I had a good boss for most of that time who partially shielded us, but when he quit to go to college, it was full-bore misery as the various managers rotated through to run our area. All of them were power-over types. I was also having physical problems because of all the standing and finally decided to quit despite not really having anything lined up. Most of my coworkers in that area quit as well, one-by-one. It all worked out in the end, but I’ll never forget how toxic that job was.
Don’t forget “Eat, Drink, Prey (sic)”
Anybody who runs away to Italy leaving their ex to parent full time is not nice and deserves not to find themself.
Any ex who runs away to find themselves deserves whatever they find on the other side, which is very likely vastly inferior. Not that they will admit that. My ex telegraphed his plans to end up “alone” at the beach for years, so at least I had a warning. He proceeded to act like we didn’t exist, mostly.
My kids were in college when their dad became a runaway, and I white-knuckled that alone through the hard financial realities of his departure and their issues. Thankfully, they came through it amazingly well and are solid, working professionals with integrity and healthy attitudes. He missed all of the graduations and the wonderful transitions. I got the Mother’s Day brunches and laughing over coffee. He got whatever he got reinventing himself.
Thank you for sharing. You absolutely nailed it with this:
“Captivity implies there is a total lack of consent. You were locked in a cage and your oppressor holds the key. Versus, we are two adults with agency who made choices. Your cheating wife cannot bear accountability. So she prefers the narrative that lets her off the hook. What choice did she have? SHE WAS CAPTIVE! She had to chew at the restraints that tethered her to the bedpost of commitment!”
I also recently found out that another friend’s cheating wife suggested they read EP only days after he discovered the affair.
EP’s rhetoric is dangerous and damaging, and there’s no doubt that is minimizes the trauma and abuse experienced by the betrayed and their families while validating cheaters who lack the emotional maturity to understand the nuances of her messages (which, by nature, is practically ALL of them).
Esther Perel is evil and she’ll have a lot to answer for in the next world. She’s not only evil in herself, she creates and excuses evil in others which is far worse.
Also, MAGA types. Watch for the hats and bumper stickers.
CN welcomes all chumps, but some chumps are more welcome than others.
Very simply, I don’t take relationship advice from cheaters, who are spectacularly unqualified to dispense it.
Anyone who presents deceiving romantic partners as healthy acceptable normal relationship behavior belongs in the dumpster, along with any books they’ve been able to get published.
Just because it’s in print and people read it and recommend it doesn’t mean it’s filled with good ideas.
Cheating hurts people. Cheating hurts children. Full stop. Fuck Esther Perel.
I vote for taking that Esther Perel Piece of Shit Book (all of her books are, because they were written by her, who is also a piece of shit human) and heavily redact all the BS in it. I mean just about EVERYTHING. That is a sharpies wet dream! lol. See if your crappy wife notices…
The Leave a Cheater Gain a life book is just for you and you don’t want to tip your hat, as Tracy said earlier in this post, to what you are going to do. But I get what Tracy was getting at. Leaving her book says a loud and clear “you SUCK and I’m outta here!”
She needs to be blindsided with the divorce and you leaving her because of her shit behavior, just like you were blindsided by her betrayal(s). She didn’t give you a heads up, don’t give her one!
And I am sorry you are here, because that means you were cheated on and betrayed and hurting right now, but we are all here for you! Lean on us! In time, you will find your footing (with our help and loyal friends/family, maybe a therapist, antidepressants, whatever works for you) and then you can offer help to other newbies here.
Hang in there! Be the sane parent and take care of yourself, put yourself first!
Be a sane person, in general.
I was the sane parent and the sane person in the divorce. His attorney figured that out and told mine that he was indeed fortunate to have the sane one of the marriage they were trying to dissolve. LOL!
When they run out of lies, they turn to excuses. Esther Perel provides a lot of convenient, pre-digested excuses for cheating. Cheaters don’t even have to work their tiny little brains to come up with excuses – she’s got them pre-made and they even sound somewhat academic, not the usual “I was helping her hang wallpaper and fell off a ladder and skewered her with my schmeckie”. Esther sounds way more sophisticated than that and uses much bigger words.
I haven’t read any of Perl’s works as if I were a cheater I could come up with my OWN excuses – I fell off a ladder and skewered myself on his schmeckie – but “Mating in Captivity” does not sound like a book that is inherently positive or optimistic about marriage. It sounds like an old Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk is forced to kiss a green space babe by some bubble headed aliens. Against his will and better judgment, of course.
So I can see the appeal of Perel’s “work” to cheaters, but I don’t understand how all of her sophistication is supposed to appeal to Chumps, which is the other side of the equation. Or are the Chumps somehow “captors”, (which makes me sound way more exciting than I am)? How can I make this “captor” thing work for ME? How to pitch these Perls before Chump swine?
Bottom line is, it’s all bullshit of course, cheaters are gonna cheat and some are just the fumblers in the car type and some are the sophisticated God and Esther Perel told me it was okay type. Chumps get nothing out of this. If I were gonna leave anything behind for STBX……I’d leave the BIBLE with a few bookmarks in place….like the 10 commandments….or how David had Uriah murdered so he could screw Bathsheba. Stuff like that.
The really unfortunate thing that Perel does, of course, is give weak minded cheaters, who might be borderline and debating to cheat, that extra push that it’s okay, understandable – even laudable. She’s someone who seems like an academic who gives them excuses…er….reasons for doing what they want but….they know they shouldn’t. She provides rationale and support from a more advanced intellectual plane and that is just using your brain for evil. Esther Perel is a bad person who makes other people worse just by reading her works.
Lest we forget, “mating in captivity” was from an interview with Gloria Steinem (back in the day when feminism was called “women’s lib”) when she was asked why she was not married. She quipped that she couldn’t mate in captivity.
She wasn’t talking about being free to cheat or open marriage. She was referring to the ways in which legal marriage, at that time, made a woman her husband’s property.
Using that phrase in an age of no-fault divorce and greater equality – and to reframe cheating as some kind of act of freedom – is beyond disgusting.
Yes, the whole legal/social climate was stacked against us for so long. Women couldn’t inherit property or file for divorce for many years. A married woman had no legal standing, only her husband. Ironically, single women had some legal standing, but still limited.
I have an elderly aunt who divorced twice in her 20’s, and she told me how gut-wrenching it was to have to prove adultery and sit through a trial that at that time was a week long. Then post-divorce, she couldn’t borrow money or have her own credit card, so she had to borrow from family. I remember my mom buying her groceries and dropping them off, and my father working on her car. She told me that her financial situation was indeed very dire for some time after each divorce. Both of her ex’s were horrible, horrible men, and the fact that she was teaching and didn’t have children with them meant no alimony.
She did remarry in her 30s and related to me that she thoroughly vetted him and presented him with a list of parameters that he agreed to before marrying her. They had just celebrated their 50th when he passed away. I asked her one time why she had remarried after two disastrous marriages, and she said she had finally found a thoroughly decent man, the only kind to marry, in her opinion.
Brandon, I’m so sorry you’re dealing w/a FW wife (hopefully soon-to-be-FW XW) who thinks Esther Perel is the person to look to for advice about infidelity.
Mine did the same, around six months after she exit-affaired me. She just forgot that her iPhone would broadcast anything she did to the family iMac she was still connected to. And that I still had, since she left it in my possession when she marched out of what had been OUR home, now mine alone. I found that she had taken a picture of Esther Perez’s latest book, The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity. 🤢🤮
So, I feel your pain. But way better than Bill Clinton (another cheating sleazebag) ever would.
On the plus side, I can tell you that full divorce and hard grey rock have made my life much more bearable. Frequently, it’s actually quite good!😁
I’m wishing the same for you, my friend. Peace, happiness, and meh. It’s coming. Don’t doubt it’s possible, because many of us are proof it is. Be there for your son as best you can. Best wishes for your son and you going forward.
For the fuck of it, I did a bit of a dive on Esther Perel’s MO and background a while ago because part of what I did for several years was researching and writing humorous “psychological” profiles on various nasty shills for the chemical (cough, toxic shitstorm) industry.
It wasn’t just gratuitous snark so that eco activists could scoff at the opposition (though that’s always fun and maybe even life-extending) but because humor/sarcasm is one of the key strategies outlined in Gene Sharp’s bible of nonviolent resistance used by resistance groups like OTPOR who ousted Milosevic and Arab Spring activists.
Humor can have a very serious purpose (who knew CL is a revolutionary and the UBT is an instrument of resistance!). It can also be a way of fighting psychobabble fire with fire. For instance, before it was absorbed by Bayer, Monsanto actually hired mercenary psychologists from shill hubs like the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (which inspired Professor Jennifer Freyd to coin the DARVO acronym) and academic anthropologists to “study” the environmental movement as if it was some primitive tribal culture and then publish weaponized collective profiles casting watchdogs, activists and whistleblowers as delusional, disordered, memory-impaired, unhygienic, anti-science philistines suffering from parareligious worship of nature and quasi Freudian issues with authority.
Or whatever. The weaponized psychobabble would have been funny if the same social science whores weren’t– as anthropologist David Price documented in “Weaponizing Anthropology”– simultaneously working for the petrol industry to psychologically denigrate the populations of third world oil rich countries as part of the war-footing building up to invasion and drone campaigns but yet framing the denigration as “helpful concern” for these poor dirty, silly, backward– ergo “drone-able”– people.
The psychobabble aimed at eco targets was pretty much cut and pasted from attacks on third world cultures and would also have been funny if those targets weren’t, say, scientific whistleblowers who’d been driven into coronaries after having their careers destroyed, Keystone activists who got their arms blown off or industrial disaster victims who’d lost children or organs. To quote a journalist, shills are “the people who come down from the hill after battle to shoot the wounded.” Their job is to shut down victims who speak out or seek restitution while ensuring that westerners don’t care when their children are fried in white phosphorous attacks.
It’s just not funny when people die as a result of victim-blaming junk science. But you know what is funny? The shills themselves. It’s not just individual abusers who tend to project their own creepy, embarrassing flaws onto victims but institutional abusers. Lots of humiliatingly checkered histories there (a surprising number of shills started shilling to resurrect career tracks after failing out of ivy league schools due to club drug or heroin addiction– things along those lines). What’s also funny was how much these types– just like Milosevic and his henchman– would wail, cry and rage over being laughed at by their own targets.
Anyway, Perel strikes me as being cut from the same cloth as a lot of industrial shills and hacks, particularly the she-shills who are usually only trotted out to disguise especially flaming misogynist agendas. For example, Perel has some of the simpering giggly bimbo mannerisms that educated women in thrall to spooky power often adopt to avoid setting off patriarchal rage. She also similarly veils her denigration of victims as “helpful concern.”
But, aside from it still being unclear exactly what spooky patriarchal power Perel is groveling for (the streaming porn industry and cheater dating websites which arguably rely on adultery for market growth? Adulterous media sponsors?), the problem in trying to do a send-up of Perel is that the disturbing stuff in her background really isn’t funny.
Basically Perel admits to being permanently desensitized to horror as a child because many of the relatives in her parents’ generation were Holocaust survivors who would frequently recount violent and gruesome experiences from the death camps and would do it in front of small children. She even admits to reenacting the same behavior in the next generation by traumatizing her own son with gory details from the war or her research or something (don’t remember). All of this is pretty messed up but there’s zero fodder for humor in it. She also states that the inspiration for framing cheating as an “exuberant act of defiance” is that the Holocaust survivors who committed serial adultery seemed to live better or longer lives than the ones who got mired in despair.
Never mind wondering how the above extreme trauma model could possibly apply to some cheating suburban dad whose worst traumatic experience was getting dumped before senior prom. What Perel doesn’t mention anywhere is that the chumped spouses the exuberantly defiant camp-survivors in her family circle were fucking over were quite possibly also death camp survivors.
There’s no way to tell from Perel’s cagey representations but it’s possible that part of the reason some of the survivors Perel knew who got mired in despair was that they’d escaped the camps only to be stabbed in the back again by their own supposed allies and kin. If this were the case, it smacks of what many camp survivors testifying at Nuremberg identified as the worst trauma they experienced and the thing that finally killed their souls. That’s actually the theme of Holocaust documentary trilogy The 81st Blow– how survivors would return from the camps expecting to be supported by their families and communities but instead being rejected, criticized and having their experiences minimized or disbelieved.
It’s easy to see Perel has chosen the side of abusive power since she’s made a career of spinning exalted apologias for betrayal, pathologizing and silencing victims and minimizing fallout which, though hardly analogous to what death camp survivors suffered, does tie in to sometimes lethal domestic abuse (Jennifer Dulos, Lacey Peterson, Shanann Watts, etc.) not to mention little things like life-shortening STDs, traumatized children and financial ruin.
Again, I really can’t find humor in any of it. But maybe Perel can. Just like she giggled in a TED talk about traumatizing her son with violent gore, she may be so desensitized by epic horror that what domestic coercive control victims endure at the hands of partners may be almost silly to her.
Hailing Artists! Ok, for Perel’s book cover: Birdcage & spouse looking very sad in cage, other spouse on floor cleaning up sad spouse’s piles of shit. “Mating in Captivity” – my arse.
Yep the only one trapped in a cage is the person who married the cheater.
That image tells the whole (real) story. You are very gifted at visualization. 😀
I had a good laugh when Perel was interviewed in Real Time. She said some drivel about having three different marriages to the same person. Bill Maher made a very obvious; “WTF, you’re crazy!” face. She prattled on, oblivious to how silly she sounded.
Brandon, is there a way to get out of co-parenting with your FW and do parallel parenting? Having to revisit the scene of the crime that is the family home must be horrible even when she isn’t leaving you pro-cheater books.
Ayn Rand thought she knew everything. Wrong! A highly intelligent cheater like her is still garbage for a partner and for gaining any wisdom from. Her poor husband. I can only imagine the awful shit he had to deal w/when it came to her.
EP is an apologist for deep human harm. No amount of pretty words can truss up that reality. Cheating is abusive and it is non consensual.
Regimes and whole societies, across the ages, have lent on wobbly rationalisations to justify transgression.
If the act harms another, innocent, person, no words can shift that.
EP is a clown. Your ex wife is a clown.
Two clowns don’t make a right.
What a sad, sad person your ex actually is to think that leaving that piece of written tat on your bookshelf is an act of zesty defiance, in circumstances where she’s torn down (temporarily) the happiness of yourself and her son, and denied herself a life of authenticity, loyalty and mutual commitment.
I think doing the charitable thing for the poor dear and cleaving the fuckwit shackles of marriage is the only answer here.
Run clown, run, you’re free to join Fuckwit circus now…I hear that Esther’s playing….tonight she’ll be lighting her own farts, giving a TED talk and projecting fireworks out of her nethers, simultaneously!!!! Esther is AMAAZING….