Dear Chump Lady, He’d have never met her — if I’d only been better?

idiotsDear Chump Lady:

I know he has talked himself into this belief. Originally, he said he didn’t know why he started talking to OW, having an EA first which then became physical. He said I was a good wife and a great mom. He even supposedly told OW that. After D-day #2 or was it #3, he said he thought he had fallen out of love with me and he was so attracted to her. We (I should say I) really tried for five years to reconcile. After D-day #5, hearing his voice on the voice-activated recorder telling her MANY times during that call how much he loved her, I had to end it. I filed for divorce and am finally single again and free of the bullshit! I can breathe again. He is living with OW and may actually be getting married to her once her divorce is final. Good for them!

However, last night I get word through a mutual friend that these two idiots submit to the idea that if their spouses were better spouses they would not have found each other and cheated!!!!! This just sends me over the edge!!! I thought about it all night. I talked to myself about it all night. Now….I know this isn’t one bit true and I can stand before him, her, friends, and family and hold fast to the fact that I was a damn good wife! I know nothing I did or didn’t do was going to change what he did, but I can’t tell you how much this bothers me. How long is this going to get under my skin? And why on earth do I let it??? And do you think they really believe this crap?

His logic must imply that he was perfect in the marriage, otherwise I would have cheated on him as well! Right??

Please help me understand this crazy thinking and help me find a way to get to meh with it!!!!

Thank you.

Kimmy

Dear Kimmy,

Oh yeah. That’s it exactly. He was perfect, which is why you didn’t cheat on him. You just enjoyed all that perfection, D-days one through five especially, while he suffered. You on the other hand were NOT perfect, which necessitated him cheating on you. Only the perfect people deserve fidelity — don’t you know that?

Were you infallible up the point he cheated? Nary a fault? Just came out of the starting gate all perfect and shiny, halo intact? Then what happened? Did you get a run in your stockings? Burn the pork chops? Get a very inconvenient head cold?

Well, whatever it was I’m sure that was the tipping point toward compelling him to fuck someone else. You and your flaws. You suck so bad that’s why he ate cake for five whole years and never divorced you — that’s exactly how intolerable you are — so intolerable you cannot be divorced.

You had to divorce HIM.

Of course your head hurts trying to understand this shit. It doesn’t make sense the way schizophrenics on street corners muttering to the voices in their head don’t make sense. It’s crazy talk.

Does he believe it? Oh, who knows. He believes it as much as he believes anything. A person like this is not tethered to reality (just like the schizophrenic), so why would you care what he believes?

He had a good wife. He fucked it up. Now he’d like to the point the finger at you and say YOU’RE not perfect. But apparently five D-days and five years of false reconciliation are an indication of what… his outstanding character? In his moral universe, what do you get to do because of his suckitude? Burn down orphanages?

Oh… that’s right. You’re the only one who sucks. Whatever. This is just the stupid shit cheaters say. One of their favorite cheater myths is — It’s all for the best.

Did I cheat on you? Decimate your finances? Leave you with a twitch? Do you require years of therapy? Got trust issues? Are you a single parent on a fixed income?

Hey! It’s all for the BEST! I mean, we’re all just in better places. You’ve really got your act together now — and hey, I noticed you’ve lost some weight. (Was that just for me? See, you can thank me for all the times I poked at your belly fat. What would you do without me?) Did you meet someone else? I don’t know who could put up with you, but hey, good for you. Cheating on you was really the best thing I could’ve done for… well, EVERYONE!

So yes, Kimmy. This is probably what they tell themselves. Did we lie and cheat and deceive our spouses? Did they divorce our sorry asses? Well gosh, they deserved to be the agent of our happiness for being so mean to divorce us. It’s All For The Best. We’re so good together! This joyous union could never have happened without their suckitude and our cake eating. And look at the kids — being so RESILIENT! Some people send their kids to Outward Bound to toughen ’em up, but not us. No, we fuck people we aren’t married to. That’ll stiffen their spines.

You want to get to Meh, Kimmy? Don’t try to understand crazy. Don’t spend one second of one minute of one day feeling like you were less than. HE cheated. He lied. He’s the loser. You’re bothered because after injuring you, he wants to insult you. But the two go together. Assholes who injure you are the same assholes who will insult you too. If you don’t believe me, read the crime pages of any newspaper.

“Well I had to rape and kill that hitch hiker. She was wearing short shorts.”

It’s what disordered people do — not just serial killers. (Although I must point out that Ariel Castro wanted the judge to believe that the women he locked and chained in his basement were in a “consensual” relationship with him.) These freaks all have the pathological inability to accept responsibility. Period.

Accept that — he’s a guy who insults and injures. Trust that he sucks. And laugh — he’s OW’s problem now.

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Scoops
Scoops
9 years ago

Most people when ending a relationship say, “it’s not you, it’s me.” This entitled narc takes the opposite road. It’s you because he’s so incredibly special.

That’s bullshit. You know, I know it…. He doesn’t have the mental capacity or character to realize that. 5 years of false reconciliation. That’s cake right there. That’s multiple layer cake. What narc cheater doesn’t like a 5 layer kibble cake? He didn’t divorce you. Nothing says character disorder than 5 years of betrayal.

Kimmy, it sucks, but it’s time to be mighty. It will take time, but know that being alone for a while is far better than being in a one way relationship with somebody who devalues you and treats you like this. Meh will happen eventually. It takes time.

lulu
lulu
9 years ago
Reply to  Scoops

Great, Scoops. I especially love your first paragraph…so true!

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago

This is part of their general slander. I learned that during my entire marriage anything I told my ex was spun into a negative depiction for his family and girlfriends. While I trusted him with my struggles and feelings he acted all understanding to me and then got on the phone to his sister and used what I told him to spin me into whatever he needed to feel good about himself.

Cheaters are slander artists. It goes along with their general fucker gestalt. They will do whatever feels most terrible to you, take all your sensitive areas and drill a hole right there. It’s like the Marathon Man dentist scene that CL once referred to.

My new mantra is: Let them talk themselves into the grave. Every action and word has an opposite equal reaction—Don’t be that reaction—let it come from somewhere else. They will get hit by their own shit in a way that they will never expect.

Get away and get a life. Let them talk and talk. They will shit on their own heads.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

Chumpectomy, all I can say is thank you. Thank you for understanding and describing exactly what went on in my relationship. Everything was spun in a negative way. I could be speaking at normal volume and accused of yelling. I would try building him up and told “I don’t want a cheerleader.” I like the term “fucker gestalt,” (CL should add that to the other apt words that help me to understand my cheater, e.g., fucktard, cake eater, etc.). I am still reeling from the impact of my negative and dysfunctional relationship and DDay was only a month and a half ago. (I found out after we divorced that he had been cheating on me for several years). I need wise words such as yours and really want to thank you. You said, “Cheaters are slander artists. It goes along with their general fucker gestalt. They will do whatever feels most terrible to you, take all your sensitive areas and drill a hole right there.” This is so very very true, I can’t emphasize it enough.

Unfortunately, my 19-year-old, home from college for the summer, is living with dad and experiencing his severe slander of me. I feel like I am slowly unwinding from learning about who I truly am, e.g., I am not bad, evil, an idiot (names I was called almost daily). And honestly, I truly feel blessed for this blog and feel glimpses of healing but what’s happening with ex and daughter stabs me in the heart and is the main source of my pain right now. I am really grasping that ex sucks. I am given gifts almost daily about how much he sucks like his literally running out of a therapy session planned to discuss our kids, ripping up a check made out to both of us for over $600 from homeowner’s insurance because he doesn’t trust that I will give him half, telling the mediator he is certain I paid her a kickback and that she is inept (done in a text), reneging on a promise to give me some furniture he stored, using power and control to cause conflicts over my child support, and worst, poisoning the mind of my oldest daughter. Thankfully, my youngest is so disgusted by him she refuses to have anything to do with him and lives with me full-time.

As you can see I am new to all this still and have a need to vent. I did not mean to go on and on but I just feel that everyone here gets it so much, which is helping me move on. I am still in some pretty escalated emotions and find each day a struggle. Thank you again for listening.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  b.f.

b.f., I’m so sorry you’re going through all this, but I’m very glad you’re here. There are so many smart, funny and supportive people here who understand exactly where you’re coming from, and some days just knowing there are others out there who ‘get it’ can make the difference between powering through and staying in bed all day with the covers pulled over you. 🙂 I don’t know what I’d do without this board! As for what’s going on with your 19 year-old, one thing I’ve found out through this whole hideous process is that kids are no dummies. They see and hear and understand so much more than we think they do, and if your youngest already figured it out, your 19 year-old will, too. Big hug to you, and stay strong.

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

Welcome b.f. to the community no one chose to be in but grateful to at least be together to learn in our shared cheater disasters. It sounds like your asshole was extremely abusive. Mine was extremely passive aggressive and did not call me names but looked irritated and disgusted by me, I received the same message for over five years. What helped me is to go No Contact. He does not get to weigh in his “opinion” of you any longer. Whatever comes out of him is pure shit made to hurt.

Mine also gets on a campaign to get my son to think I am crazy. Extremely hurtful especially when wanted your child to learn respect and empathy and honesty. To have to share custody with a liar is horrible.

Try as much as you can to distance yourself from him and make a new life without anything to do with him. Read CL’s book. It really helped me to not give the fool anymore kibbles. Anything you have–all feelings and thoughts that you give this piece of shit is kibbles for him–he will use it to feed and make you miserable. If you withdraw completely (or as much as possible given your 19 year old) you will one day be free of all of his slander and chaos and you will show your daughter what is true by living the truth.

Keep writing and taking us with you. You will get through this, even if it takes a while. After 14 months I am beginning to get myself back. It is a gift. I love your list of what to be grateful for–absolutely true. Thank you for writing it.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

I am very very fortunate to have found you all. Thank you so much. Every word is gold and helps me tremendously.

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

“Cheaters are slander artists”

Amen. I don’t know what my wife has said about me or what she will say during the divorce process and after, but here’s a little story about a friend of mine:

He met “the perfect woman,” sparkly as hell, a talented musician (like him), beautiful, charming, etc. They got engaged, she became pregnant, they married. Shortly after the baby was born it came to light that she had been cheating on him with a variety of men and women ever since they had been together, and that most of the people he knew in the small local music community had known that. He decided not to get a paternity test, divorced his cheater and is now the primary parent raising their daughter.

Anyhow, a while back I was cowriting a song with another musician from the same small island, a younger guy who knew both of them by reputation and slightly socially. We got to talking about my friend. The young guy had the impression that the marriage had ended due to my friend drinking too much. Because, yeah, no huge surprise, when this all came out he started drinking a lot. But what sort of person would let people believe that story after having almost destroyed a man through betrayal? Makes me sick.

Kelly
Kelly
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

“Let them talk themselves into the grave. Every action and word has an opposite equal reaction—Don’t be that reaction—let it come from somewhere else. They will get hit by their own shit in a way that they will never expect….Get away and get a life. Let them talk and talk. They will shit on their own heads.”

Oh so true, Chumpectomy!

Kat
Kat
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

Fucker gestalt. Hahaha awesome!

AuthenticMe
AuthenticMe
9 years ago
Reply to  Kat

Happened to me too. Exactly like that. And that’s what eats at me the most. That I exposed my vulnerabilities (stupidly it was mainly whilst doing the pathetic ‘pick me’ dance because he’d accused me if being cold and distant.) So you guessed it, I spilled my guts only to have it all used against me later to prove I was ‘insecure’ ‘unstable’ etc. etc. I’m still so angry about it I could scream!

KitKat
KitKat
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

This is great – thanks! I needed this today. 🙂

Chumpster
Chumpster
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

“. I learned that during my entire marriage anything I told my ex was spun into a negative depiction for his family and girlfriends. While I trusted him with my struggles and feelings he acted all understanding to me and then got on the phone to his sister and used what I told him to spin me into whatever he needed to feel good about himself.”

This is EXACTLY what happened to me. EXACTLY.

beachi
beachi
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

‘They will shit on their own heads’

🙂 love it

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  beachi

Me too 🙂

chumpittychump
chumpittychump
9 years ago
Reply to  Rosie Boa

Me three

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

“Every action and word has an opposite equal reaction—Don’t be that reaction—let it come from somewhere else. They will get hit by their own shit in a way that they will never expect.

Get away and get a life. Let them talk and talk. They will shit on their own heads.”

My mantra is a simple variation of this . . . “Be Still”. I don’t do a thing against him or her, no words, not even a subtlety placed bait-y Facebook post. I am invisible and silent. I just keep out of the way and allow the Universe to have at it. It’s the only way to be. I really enjoy the peace. 😉

movingon
movingon
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

When will I be able to do this? I want to do this, “be still,” and achieving some good duration between the angry texting about how hurtful he is, but I am only a month and a half from DDay. I want to let life take care of this but struggling with what he is telling my 19-year-old especially and desperate to protect her with the truth. This is the hardest thing I have ever experienced in my life: losing weight, can’t concentrate, intrusive thoughts, obsessive thoughts, sadness, anger. I am a wreck.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  movingon

Movingon,
Like everyone says, you’re in the beginning of a walk through the dark forest. That’s what it’s like. It sucks, and you think you won’t come out of it, but you will.

I lost 40 lbs in two months. I slept on my sofa the first 4 months with the TV on because I couldn’t stand silence or being in what was our bedroom. Since you’re brand new to this, here’s what I did in the beginning to prop myself up:
1) Prozac and Xanax if I couldn’t sleep.
2) Got a great therapist I saw weekly.
3) Absolutely no contact with the cheating hyena. You need this.
4) Ensure or Boost shakes; or I’d eat those little Stouffer’s entree’s because I had no appetite at all and they are small portions. You have to eat. At least a little bit.

This stuff was essential because I was just gutted. The only thing I could do was make it to work and crawl back to my couch after I got home. And that’s fine – Sleep is great.

I’m 8 months past D-day now and divorced, and every day I wake up grateful for making it through and amazed that I am so happy. If you told me that I would be OK, I would have never believed it. You’ll get there too, promise.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  movingon

Movingon – you are at the early days yet. But it will get better. At this stage you need to make sure you eat some high quality protein every day, exercise if you can (I walked for hours, as Chumpectomy says, like Forrest Gump) – ruthless and extreme self-care for you and your daughter.

It is good you are getting some space between contacting him – stick with it – even though it seems impossible, the less you contact him the easier it will get for you. Contact at this stage is a bit like junk food – you want it, you crave it, it feels good while you’re eating it, but afterwards you feel unsatisfied, unwell and regret it.

Read CLs back issues – they will help – and vent here if you need to. You will get through this.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
9 years ago
Reply to  movingon

I don’t have any answers, but I just wanted to say hang in there. Please do your best to take care of yourself. It is so very hard in the early months. I found taking walks and just sitting outside for a few minutes at lunchtime really helped me a lot during the hardest time. It gets better….time really does help.

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Hi movingon,

I struggle with intrusive thoughts, anger and sadness too. I am 14 months since D-day. But when I look back at how I am doing now to those early months, it is a world of difference.

I used to compose letters in my head to the attorney general (referring to cheater’s efforts to completely dehumanize me using an organization I trusted as allies in his cheater shit) whenever I was alone. I used to feel shaken, running from Effexor to Prozac and now I do not need those drugs and feel alive much of the time.

I used to not be able to spend the nights without my child without raging uncontrollably. Feeling ripped from my child. Now I can see that life goes on. It’s not how I want things to be but I am able to sit with myself and draw some comfort.

I take comfort in reading the experiences of chumps here. None of us did anything to deserve being fucked over and violated. Feel free to take me and everyone here along with you—talk to us.

As NothernLight says: hang in there.

I work as a home PT and did a lot of walking all over NYC from home to home. I rode every train in my commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan to get from place to place. Think of Forrest Gump–running for three years—I needed to walk, run and talk off all this rage and injustice—I felt crazy–out of control, out of my body–the ebbs and flows and then I would get some peace and cherish those moments.

I still struggle, but in the last month can really see change. I expect it to take about three years to feel myself–to be distant from cheater, enough so that I do not feel the anger take over.

We will all get there. You are going through the hardest time. Be kind to yourself. Talk to yourself. Tell yourself that you will be okay, that of course you are obsessing and raging—someone you trusted with your life used that trust to try to destroy you—and they are roaming around free without accountability—–Of course you are raging and you still have to deal with the piece of shit. Give yourself a break by understanding—try different things—it will loosen its grip in time.

These are things I have done that have helped me that I offer respectfully.

Remember: The wheels of justice turn slowly but they grind exceedingly fine.

Monika
Monika
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

I hope the letter to attorney general was completed and sent 😉
Think of it as karma in your hands.
Seriously, it’s one thing to be a cheater, another to behave unethically in the business world. Send it, if you haven’t.

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago
Reply to  Monika

Hi Monika,

Thank you so much for your support. A friend of mine who is a civil rights lawyer at ACLU edited the letter. I put it aside because I needed to get all of those monsters out of my head. Once I get my life back I am going to edit the letter and also write about my experience with a group of bully birthers who know nothing but deception. These BABS nutters are mean girls on steroids. They live on gossip and love to dominate women outside of their inner circle by using what they learn about them in their intimate spaces. They really are nasty. Hard to believe I had anything to do with them—-I will take your words and when the time is right I will act.

Monika
Monika
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

Hit them where it hurts (pockets, if they lose their jobs or get demoted.)
Narcissists and nasty people don’t care if they hurt your feelings so you’ll never get vindication if you hope that one day they’ll wake up one day and feel remorseful. But in business, they’ll likely to experience some form of humiliation, and that’s all you could really hope for. Fundamentally fucked up people don’t change. Sorry, maybe I’m too cynical.

whodathunk
whodathunk
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Amen, Rumblekitty! My friends ask why do you let him “get away” with (insert whatever shitty decision he’s made)? I told them 2 reasons. 1) He’s going to dig that hole so deep that no judge could ever believe any kind of lying spin he could put on it. 2) You can’t argue w crazy. Oh, I suppose you can, I just learned that nothing productive comes from it. 3) He can show nothing that I have done that would be considered “wrong”, or not in the best interest of the children, or in any way derogatory towards him. Just gassing up that karma bus!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  whodathunk

I’ve had friends do the same thing . . . but like I tell them, he’s already gotten away with it. I’m not going to be that crazy bitch that chases him around demanding an apology or that all the wrongs be righted. He couldn’t/wouldn’t do that for me anyway so way bother wasting my breath? Besides any attention from me would be kibbles to him, and I’m not feeding him. He can let the new one kiss his ass cause I’m done. 🙂

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Oh Rumblekitty, I just got this experience, the “I’m Done” you speak of really for the first time today!

I went to a showing for my son’s film camp. Ex was there. My son tried to get us to hold hands as he always does. My heart breaks for my little guy. He is the fallout and he did nothing to deserve having one parent violate the other and the other feel constant revulsion for the psycho. Now that is his atmosphere.

Afterward on my way home (my son went to ex) I did my usual explaining in my head, telling him why what he did was so damaging and violent. Then I stopped and thought:

Would I really want to explain this to him yet again? What would it do? Then I realized I AM DONE. No more teaching right from wrong. NO more explaining my feelings to someone who cannot receive and respect. I felt lighter. Yes rumble, me too. I’m done. I hope this lasts forever.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

Yep; I find that if I have and imaginary conversation with him like that, where I try to get him to see how badly he messed up, it would go nowhere. There just is no point. Save that energy for yourself. I’ve gotten quite good at diverting myself away from thinking about the cluster F that is him and instead focusing on me. It took a lot of practice, but now I just shut him off.

I’m lucky I don’t have a kid with him so, I understand it’s easier for me since I have NO contact with this guy. But you’ll see you will start to default to “done” more and more as time goes on.

whodathunk
whodathunk
9 years ago
Reply to  whodathunk

…or 3 reasons – sometimes I need to read before I post!

KP
KP
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

Hooah!

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

“I learned that during my entire marriage anything I told my ex was spun into a negative depiction for his family and girlfriends. ”
Holy Cow..you nailed that on the head, Scoops! I’m pretty sure that everybody he’s ever talked to about me sees me as a psychotic crazy bitch who made his life a living hell, and wasn’t he such a good guy staying with me for long, before true love rescued him!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

Love this. 🙂

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago

Wow…just had a good cry over this post. I could have written it myself and this issue is exactly where I struggle. Trust me when I say that I had no idea that my stbxh was so profoundly unhappy in our marriage. I hadn’t a clue until I found out about the affair…and then it seemed like he and I had lived two completely different realities. It is a daily struggle to think that I am somehow “less than” the AP…a woman who has been married and divorced twice, engaged in affair #3 with my stbxh and left her current husband and children to be with him. I know in my head that I have done absolutely nothing wrong…but my heart keeps whispering that it’s somehow my fault. So, thank you for this post CL. I’m going to bookmark it and read it every time that fear starts creeping in and the doubts about myself begin to blossom.

kb
kb
9 years ago

lovehonorcherish–

My STBX is having an affair with a woman who’s twice married, twice divorced, and who has a history of affairs with older, married men. She’s overweight, drinks too much (primary cause of her weight gain), spends beyond her means, and complains about how her previous husbands were abusive. STBX, at least in his mind, is the White Knight riding to her rescue.

Once I got past looking at OW as the source of the problem, I started to think about what she finds attractive in men. Older–check, STBX is over 10 years older, and she’s made him grow a goatee that makes him look even older! Higher income–check; STBX is not wealthy, but makes a very good salary for our area. Married–check; STBX and I had been married for about 15 years before she showed up. Abusive–wait! What’s this?

Here is where I had to stop and think. OW’s picker has been terrible–and it sounds like the OW in your case has a terrible picker, too. I had to confront just how much I’ve spackled over the years, and how much I’ve apologized on his behalf.

So the upshot is this. STBX has a terrible picker if he’s attracted to someone like OW. I’m glad he’s no longer attracted to me, since that means I’m definitely the better choice! 🙂 And that OW is attracted to STBX is a huge red flag.

I bet if you look at your cheater and his AP in a similar light, you’ll see that you are definitely the better person, and those two deserve each other.

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
9 years ago
Reply to  kb

kb,

Reverend Imaho’s divorce from her third husband was final in October of 2012, she and the STBX were having an emotional affair in November of 2012 and he was talking about us separating and divorcing in January 2013. She has a pattern of jumping from man to man as if they’re oxygen and she can’t breathe unless she’s hooked up to one. The STBX wants to be adored and doted on and the center of someone’s universe – as long as it is completely on his terms. No normal person can sustain that – although God knows I tried. Just writing about it is making me tired.

I think Rumblekitty’s description of them as hyenas is perfect. I’ve often described both of them as predators who just don’t want to work that hard for their prey so they will feed off of what is easily available.

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  kb

Thanks, kb…I definitely see your point!!

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago

Not that it matters but just wanted to clarify…it was affair #3 for the AP. To the best of my knowledge my stbxh had never engaged in cheating behavior prior to hooking up with her : (

fiestypants
fiestypants
9 years ago

Whether there was more prior or not, it’s still massive betrayal and he’s still soooooooo not worth it. YOU are.

fiestypants
fiestypants
9 years ago

LHC-Wow, let’s just say your STBX really likes his gum, er women, in the ABC, found in a pile of dog shit mode. That’s class and high cuisine right there I tell ya, what a lucky guy he is to have that kind of AP. You are definitely waaaaay above him AND the AP. I highly, highly doubt someone is going to go looking in a pile of shit to find you. You’re the type that’s got the premium spot on the shelf, high price, b/c you’re of value. YOU are worth so much more.

LimboLand
LimboLand
9 years ago

I am right there with you! Divorce is over (3 months now) and I am still beating myself up about what I should’ve /could’ve/ would’ve done differently in the marriage. And then also after finally getting courage to kick his arse to the curb, I continue to question: did I do it too soon? would he have eventually wanted to stay with me?

Then I have to remind myself about his AP and that had NOTHING to do with me!

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago

LHC,
Wow, the AP sounds like a real prize! 2 Divorces and leaves children and second husband for your cheating husband, MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN! This makes YOU feel bad?

This should make you feel great that you are no longer with this kind of Creep who is so selfish and chooses someone who disposes of their children and husband to be with a guy who clearly came from a trash can. This automatically elevates you way above the Trash that is your stbxh and AP. You are golden!!!

Don’t feel bad about that, be thrilled!

chumpittychump
chumpittychump
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

The MOW my STBX left me for kicked her H out and 8 days later moved mine in to be her meal ticket. She kept the kids but otherwise exact same scenario. We know in our heads these are disordered people but it still hurts like a motherfucker.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  chumpittychump

Yes, I have been realizing exactly what you said. I know ex is very mentally ill and diagnosable (Narcissistic Personality Disorder with features of borderline and antisocial, cluster B) but thank you for saying it so perfectly chumpittychump (great name by the way and makes me smile, which I need) “it still hurts like a motherfucker.”

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  chumpittychump

Oh god, how awful for those kids!! Those two really do suck!!

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Deborah, you are right. It’s been a bit of a process to accept who and what my stbxh has become. He is a man I no longer recognize : (

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago

No, he is just really is the person you see now. He didn’t become that he is that! You are just really seeing that in all it’s glory for the first time. I know how hard that is to process and wrap your head around. Go easy on yourself and not on him.

Do straight people turn gay overnight? No as Lady Gaga says, you are born this way, with a little help from your environment and experiences. I think your core personality is formed when you are born. Otherwise how do you explain the vastly different personalities of children who all grow up in the same house?

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Thanks for this, Deborah. I think lots of us feel like our X is someone we no longer recognize (I know I sure do), and it’s tough to wrap the brain around the fact that the change is less in the other person than in our own ability to see straight.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

This could not be more true. I don’t recognize my ex at all and I feel like I am in a constant state of disbelief.

lale
lale
9 years ago

Cheaters love to rewrite history as they go along, and whoever they’re sleeping with is usually happy to jump on board with the new version. Until it’s about them later, which it will be. He has to convince OW that you did something wrong so she’ll trust that he won’t cheat on her as long as she’s “perfect”. Perfect is part of infatuation and will be gone in the blink of an eye. The good news is that she’ll be exactly where you are at some point. The bad is that you have these thoughts in the meantime. “Trust that he sucks”, and trust that she will find it out too! Now go do some fabulous things with all the time you’re getting back not being in fake reconciliation!!!

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

lale, you are awesome, “…has to convince OW that you did something wrong so she’ll trust that he won’t cheat on her…” Wow, so well said. Everyone here is so smart and I really appreciate it.

Pru
Pru
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

OMG!! So true. My XH came up with so many reasons for him leaving me, that I started calling them “reason of the week.” When all was said and done, I think he left me because he decided that I was a “an overweight gossipy drunken undermining shrew that was making him old before his time.” Now he didn’t say that in so many words, but he left me because:

1. I drank too much…. So I enjoyed a couple of glasses of wine in the evening. Who wouldn’t want to escape from him?
2. I had gained weight, but I gave him 2 kids and so I wasn’t a size 4 like when we married
3. I enjoyed a good “dish” like anyone and he was all about what the neighbors were doing too
4. So, I didn’t let him beat the kids or yell at our autistic son when he was pissed at them. Wow, I guess I really did undermine his authority.
5. He saw his dad before he left me and decided that he looked old because he was married to a woman that didn’t make him happy. His dad looked old…not because he was unhappy in his marriage, but because he was 75, smoked a pack a day and drank alot.

But, whatever helps the XH sleep at night. 🙂

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

True. It’s an emotional immaturity that allows them to view passing fancies as absolute truths, and to state them as such, without regard to context, historical accuracy and consistency with prior-statements (or beliefs, intentions, promises, goals, etc.). I think that most of them believe everything he or she is saying at the moment they are uttering this stuff, but their beliefs and intentions have a short shelf life, making anything that comes out of their mouths wholly unreliable in the long term.

Pru
Pru
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

Well said

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

Wastedheart,

This is because there is seldom, if ever, any thought given to the long-term impact or consequence of their decisions. It’s like dealing with children, because children don’t have enough lived experience to have a frame of reference from which to evaluate their behavior and possible consequences. This is the perfect description of my STBX’s life. He lives in his own head, creates his own reality and the only consequence of his choices that he ever considers as actually possible is the outcome that he envisions and has mapped out. One of my children has compared him to a spoiled child who has to have his way and instant gratification and if he can’t, metaphorically pouts and stomps his foot.

Any time I tried to point out that the consequence he believed would happen was the LEAST likely possible outcome, he would become angry and petulant at which point he would either (a) find some way to mete out an emotional punishment (compulsive porn-viewing, silent treatement, withholding sex, an emotional and/or physical affair, etc., or some combination of all of these) or (b) do what he wanted and when things went foul and negative consequences began to ensue, he would call upon me to extricate him from those consequences, because suddenly “we” had a problem.

As I type this I realize how totally exhausting, mind-boggling and soul destroying it has been dealing with an adult who behaves this way.

whodathunk
whodathunk
9 years ago
Reply to  Chump Princess

We married the same guy!! OMG – It’s like you were sitting in my living room describing our interactions! Oh yes! It’s “his” money & “our” bills. Funny how that works.
I finally realized that it was a waste of breath & energy to try to explain or reason with these fucktards. So I just keep looking for the karma bus – which I swear I can hear revving it’s engine in the distance.

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
9 years ago
Reply to  whodathunk

whodathunk,

I usually heard HE “had money” but “WE” were broke. I never understood how he could have money to spend, but when it ran out, “we” would be broke and “I” had to make sacrifices until there was more money – for him. Although he was the major earner, aside from time I took off to stay home with new babies (a cumulative total of about 2 1/2 years of the entire 25 year marriage) I worked outside the home and contributed much to our finances.

These assholes must attend classes in “Disordered Cheating Fucktard Money Mismanagement 101.”

lilac
lilac
9 years ago
Reply to  Chump Princess

So well stated, Chump Princess. I TOTALLY get what you mean. “Soul destroying” is such a good description of these jerks.

MagicalMomma
MagicalMomma
9 years ago
Reply to  lilac

My girlfriends description of the stbxh & hobitch: “their souls are bleached in sin!”

Kelly
Kelly
9 years ago
Reply to  lilac

They literally drain the life and spirit out of us. They are truly like real-life vampires.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

Yep. Well said WH!

KP
KP
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

This rocked me on my heels, it’s so well put. Thank you.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

lale..WHY is it that they think the OW is so perfect? I wonder that every day.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Sandy R – they think OW is perfect because OW think’s his is perfect. It’s that simple. They make each other feel all Sparkly! And Special!

No doubt it wears off once they have to start washing each other’s undies and arguing over who’s turn it is to get groceries. At they stage one or both of them will start cheating again, or if no other opportunities arise, they may find themselves stuck with each other in order to justify their betrayal of you. It’s poetic justice that they end up together. And you are free.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Rosie Boa

Gah. “thinks HE is perfect”. Although no doubt she thinks his $&@(# is perfect too. Ick.

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

I asked my cheater in marriage counselling what on earth she saw in the OM, because I just couldn’t hold in my mind that she found us both attractive. The marriage counsellor twisted my question into “What do you find attractive about ANR” but that’s not what I wanted to know. My wife didn’t really answer either question, but after the session she was pissed and asked “Are you asking me to justify the attraction to you?” as if that were the worst thing in the world. It’s hard to be objective, of course, but here’s a brief comparison:

Me: 48, 6’1, 175 lbs, pretty good shape, fairly good looking, bright, respectful, gentle, kind, non-drinker, good provider

Him: 60ish, 5’10, probably 230 lbs a lot of which is belly fat — looks like a formerly athletic guy gone to seed, which he is, not unhandsome, bright, disrespectful, devious, cheats on his wife, manipulative, much higher income than me but hugely in debt, really heavy drinker

Whatever. I would guess the big attraction was a) fresh kibbles, b) no responsibilities associated with him, whereas she and I have a family and home, c) she gets to be a saviour! d) money

diana l
diana l
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

I think if someone wants to cheat, they may have to accept a partner who isn’t so great. A guy your age who is as good-looking and smart and nice as you could get a woman who wasn’t married.

DoneNow
DoneNow
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

ANR, let me see if I have this right. You’re a tall, attractive, non-cheating, non-drinking, respectful musician who lives on an island? Rock on! It’s definitely not you, it’s her.

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  DoneNow

Haha! Mostly right — I’m an awful musician, but a pretty good songwriter (who is sane enough to do it as a sideline). I’m wary of calling myself attractive, but compared to most men my age I’m doing OK. I don’t, unfortunately, live on an island — that’d be my friend.

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Sandy R, because they are in an imaginary honeymoon phase. They think it will last forever. It won’t 🙂 my ex goes through these phases with one woman after another – he’s starting to run out of stories why it “just wasn’t going to work out” when he dumps them…meanwhile, at least half of the women (some I didn’t even know about) have approached me online to tell me what a prick he is and that they “should have known” by how he treated me and our son. Funny how opinions change when the honeymoon phase/infatuation is over. And it always ends!

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

lale..my STBX has been having an affair with the same OW for 3 years. He left me on Dday for her. My thought is..there’s really no longer that “honeymoon effect” for them. After seeing each other for so long, I imagine they’ve settled in to their serious relationship after all this time. I think that’s why I have trouble with this. Knowing that they’ve been together long-term already, and are still together..makes me think that yes..it IS true love for them. And as many other posters have said here on CL..the OW is fat, with bleach-blonde hair, leathery tanning-booth skin, and spends 99% of her time getting drunk in the bar. That’s their entertainment. They get plastered at the bar most nights, get into fights with other people, and get thrown in jail. What a classy life they lead. As for me? I’m not a Barbie doll, but I’ve always been called “cute”, I’ve worked the same job for over 22 years, I’ve handled all of the responsibilities financially and raising the kids for 25 years, while he’s done nothing. He’s been employed, I am not saying he doesn’t work. But that’s it. Never lifted a finger to do anything for 26 years. And he got rid of me for HER?

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

You said it all: They want to drink most nights, get into fights and end up in jail. You are an adult. They are pseudo adults that prefer a life built around alcohol, easy sex and fighting. He “got rid of you for her” because you are an adult and by being an adult, you put restrictions on his behavior. He prefers his cake with alcohol, with a side order of bar fighting and finding bail money.

It’s a tremendous compliment that you were too good for him to think you would live that way.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“He prefers his cake with alcohol, with a side order of bar fighting and finding bail money”

That is hilarious, by the way LovedaJackass! Thank you for making me have a laugh for once!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

My therapist says this about what Jackass saw in his MOW: “She worshipped him” He didn’t care what she looked like, that she isn’t smart, that she was willing to dishonor her brother by starting up their affair at his memorial, that she isn’t all that attractive. She makes him feel like he’s 18 and bulletproof again. She worships him. And 6 weeks after my D-Day, he kicked HER to the curb. Who knows why, but I speculate that getting caught tarnished his lovely little secret affair. And while she still worshipped him, my guess is that she wanted to be worshipped too and it was of course HER FAULT that they got caught, or something like that. As P.F. says so well in the post below, in the APs eyes, the cheater is perfect. A superior being. People grounded in the real world know that neither they nor their partners are perfect and they would find worshipping a partner or being worshipped to be weird and creepy.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

I know how you’re feeling. The MOW in my situation isn’t the drinking, fighting, hoochie you are dealing with, but she is very self-absorbed and immature. What helped me was understanding that he didn’t “choose” her OR me for our characters or even looks. He went for kibbles–the attention he could get, how both of us helped him live in a past time in which he felt powerful and superior. They have no frame of reference for what we think of as love. As I ponder the mystery of how someone can “love me” for years (so he said) and push me aside to have an instant romance with a married woman who was a 12 year-old when he knew her, it seems to me the things that we assume should matter in picking a partner don’t matter to many of them. Their pickers aren’t necessarily set to look for “attractive,” “smart,” “wealthy,” or “kind.” They aren’t set for “good housekeeper” or “professionally accomplished,” although any of those qualities might be a bonus. What I am coming to think is that the AP are either just available or they offer ego kibbles in a form that is meaningful to the cheater. And it might be that they spend a number of years wearing their masks and just can’t do it any more.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Thanks, LovedaJackass. It just makes me feel terrible that I did so much over the years to keep our marriage intact, and to give our kids as good a home as I could. I took on the responsibilities, so he could do the job he wanted to do, long-haul trucker, which meant he wasn’t home much to begin with. But I truly worked so hard over the years, only to be thrown over for someone like her. It just hurts me to no end! Would I have felt better if he dumped me for a wealthy Barbie doll? Probably not. But good grief I can’t believe who he chose. One thing he has thrown in my face is that my family never included him in anything. My Dad and 2 brothers-in-law golfed and fished quite a bit, and STBX never went. Well number one..he wasn’t ever home! So Dad couldn’t just plan things when STBX decided to swing by and see his family every few weeks. I just feel really, really bad about myself; and bothered by the lifestyle he has chosen to live. This drunken bar-fighting jerk isn’t the man I thought I knew for the last 26 years. I just don’t understand how you can go from one lifestyle to the extreme opposite!

Sick of HER Chump
Sick of HER Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

Well said lale! I really needed to hear this today. Thank you.

P.F
P.F
9 years ago

Cheaters crave illusion, and those who cheat with them contribute to the delusion. A cheater, in the eyes of their affair partner are perfection. It’s this illusion, that convinces them that the spouse is less than, not worthy. The affair partner see’s the “real” and exceptional non-farting, romantic, sexy, interesting persona. The affair partner laughs at the old jokes and the old recycled stories of their past are new again to the ear of the affair partner.

What a cheated on spouse’s greatest flaw is not appreciating the wonderfulness of their cheater. To be a cheater, is to be above the average human, in an affair, the cheater is elevated to a mystical being. This mystical being is usually resurrected in a hotel room…a back seat of a car, an business trip or while sexting in the bathroom where they compelled to take selfies of their magnificent groin and post haste send it to their adoring affair partner.

Cheaters are in love with being in love. The kind of Tom Cruise jumping on a couch kind of love. Cheaters, are more about bells and whistles, cake buffets and the persona they imagine themselves to be. How can this compete with reality. A cheated on spouse is mirror of the reality they are escaping from.

MGirontree
MGirontree
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Yes PF, I witness my husband jumping on the couch in couples counseling yesterday . He was jumping with joy because he just realized that cheating for over 14 years in our 22 year old marriage made him a better husband. The psychologist had to stop himself from reacting. It was hilarious. He truly believes his delusions.

P.F
P.F
9 years ago
Reply to  MGirontree

It’s ironically predictable that cheaters act like fifteen year olds. It’s as though their idea idea of love is relegated to that pimply, pubescent, over dramatized feeling. These folks have not progressed beyond their teens.

My ex-wife preferred teenage love. For her, adult love came with too many restrictions, those restrictions were basically a reluctance of maturity.

These cheaters, with their talk of music, burning the cd’s, the selfies, the bubble gum philosophy, the teenaged rebellion against their adult spouse, as if it were Mommy or Daddy who was giving them a curfew.

These cheaters, jump on couches, burn CD’s and write substandard love letters. these folks are divers that think a puddle is an ocean.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Yeah–and the F***ing adolescent smirking. The “you aren’t the boss of me,” the sneaking around, and the delight in fooling the “grown up.” I’d known Jackass for 30+ year as a friend and had never seen him smirk or behave like an awkward adolescent until we were in a supposed committed relationship and he started to cheat.

SAchump
SAchump
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Wow, this is a brilliant description…exactly like my STBX! Wrote ridiculously bad poems to his OW and texted millions of stupid emoticons that our 7 year old taught him how to use…

ExpatChump
ExpatChump
9 years ago
Reply to  SAchump

OMG. The emoticons. STBX emoticon filled texts coincide with the start of his affair. He was so proud of himself because he was now so cool and on the know.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  ExpatChump

My STBX is so cool and awesome and proud of himself because he Snapchats the final OWhore.

ExpatChump
ExpatChump
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Oh yes. He also began Snapchatting recently. Just like my tween. I really do need to trust that he sucks.

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Yup – a love forged in betrayal, fertilized by secrecy, lies and the pain of others, and memorialized by furtive texts and groin-selfies; fifty year old teenagers is right.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

“A cheated on spouse is mirror of the reality they are escaping from.”

Me LIKEY!!!

ChumpedTwice
ChumpedTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Well said, P.F.

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Love this – thanks

KP
KP
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Yup, another gem. Chump Lady readers are clearly a thinking bunch. 🙂

Me
Me
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

I loved your post. Retread it a number of times. Beautifully stated.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Me

The “Tom Cruise” analogy is brilliant. Their “love” is a performance, a show. People could intuit that something was off about that performance. And if we remember that when chumps fall in love, that’s something different, an emotional stage that is intended as a gateway to a deeper, more profound and intimate experience. So when we wonder “what happened?” and “did my partner ever love me?” the answer is that the cheater is in love with being in love. Think about it: “being in love” is about our own feelings, about the rush, the excitement, the feeling of oneness, the sense of being bulletproof in a harsh world. It’s a high. When PF says that cheaters are in love with being in love, PF is saying that cheater are in love with themselves and how that initial experience gets them high. Just as an active alcoholic or addict is not available for intimate relationships because the drug of choice is the love object, the cheater is not available for intimate relationship because the other person serves merely to create a transient feeling in the cheater.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Very true, Jackass. When I was kicking ex out he was babbling on about how HE felt, how the situation made HIM feel. It wasn’t about me, it wasn’t about myriad OW, it was all about him and the high he was feeling.

These days he’s a bit deflated and seems to be running around trying to keep up the image but from the few times I’ve seen him that is one broken down man. No confidence, empty, just a sad shell. The look in his eyes is bizarre and I’d almost feel sorry for him if I didn’t know what a fuck head he is.

Kelly
Kelly
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Oh Nord, I must admit it warms my heart to hear about your ex. What happened to the joys of “two wuv”?? Must be sickening to one day wake up to a niggling suspicion that they are stuck with someone much like themselves, and that they have lost what they should have valued like so much dust in the wind.

But their hubris does not allow them to believe anything other than that they are the real victims of their own mess.

As we say here, poor sausages.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Don’t get me wrong, ex still, to this day, tells the kids why he ‘had’ to cheat on me and why we are equally responsible for the divorce and blah blah blah. A few months away from 3 years since dday and he still can’t stop talking about it. As one of my kids said to me recently, ‘You were a mess when this happened but you’ve moved on. Dad can’t move on. He acts like it jsut happened’. He’s obsessed with the whole mess but that’s his problem. I have my thoughts on why that is but at the end of the day I don’t really care enough to verbalise any of it.

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Yup…My XH. Being in love with being in love. Mr. Sparkles jumping on couches all right! I caught him burning cd’s of his favorite music for Shcmoopie. (he lied and said he was making the cd’s to take to work to listen to) I found out after dday that he had numerous affairs over the years before we were married…while he was married to other wives. He went from woman to woman to woman. Constantly falling in ‘love.’ It seems we all had a shelf life of approximately 5 years before he fell madly in love with someone else and all the crazy making bullshit started all over. I didn’t know about his past when I met him. Schmoopie DID but she honestly thought she was the Special One. The Anointed One with the platinum pussy that could keep him from fucking around. Right.

ChutesandLadders
ChutesandLadders
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

My X is in love with himself, so he craves being adored. To him, that is love.

movingon
movingon
9 years ago

That is really well said. Thank you.

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

“The Anointed One with the platinum pussy that could keep him from fucking around. Right.”

Brilliant!

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

Yep, final OW thinks she’s special and their love is the bestest love of all, despite knowing he was banging other OW while seeing her and married to me. Fun times! I will snicker when it all falls apart and indications are that he’s sliding back into his old tricks.

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

So does my XH’s Schmoopie. She is his “first” love and don’t you know how special that is (this is what she actually told me.) In a text between them, she said, “On some level I feel sad that we have done this to her, but I just had to be with you.” If she only knew that he and I had been sleeping together and that he has his profile out there on adult dating websites. Yup. She is the Special One!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  AnnieW56

What you and Nord say above is why it makes no sense to blame ourselves for their choices. Some of these guys have a longer shelf life for relationships, some shorter. And some can wallow in their miserable limbo in between things–or maybe in between they have lesser text or FB affairs that never make their major narrative. (Jackass has a blank space of 4 or 5 years where he says nothing was going on with him, not that I believe a word out of his con artist mouth.) But they are all working on lining up and taking in kibbles. That is hard work; I’m not being a bit sarcastic here. What if we all had to run out, find 2 or 3 people that attract us enough to “fall in love,” and juggle all that for years and years? But whatever their individual patterns, once a relationship ceases to satisfy enough of the kibble need, they are off on the hunt. Once upon a time, they fell in love with the now-scorned spouse, but that “love” has a built-in shelf life. If any of you have ever lived with someone addicted to alcohol, drugs, cigarettes or gambling, you will know what “anxiety about the supply” is about. Spouses and APs provide supply, and it looks to me like “falling in love” kibbles are highly desirable, and spouses don’t have those in the kibble dispenser.

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Transient – yes! And Tom Cruise – perfect example, PF.

Roslyn
Roslyn
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

This is so perceptive, PF, that it is worthy of development in a future post by CL.

livingMyLife
livingMyLife
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

PF, that’s an awesome description of a cheaters crazy mind. “Tom cruise jumping on a couch kind of love.”

Mighty Mite
Mighty Mite
9 years ago
Reply to  P.F

Brilliant!!!! You said it so well P.F.!!!

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago

Hi Kimmy,
It’s a pattern they all repeat. Remove yourself completely from the equation. It’s all on him. The way I see that it works is that once the honeymoon phase is over, your relationship with them is over. It has to be light and fun all the time for them. When it becomes something they are not into any more they move on. No attachment from them. They are all toxic and totally unstable and therefore not good for any kind of relationship. Their “sensitivity chip is missing”, they are a one note musician. After my experience I see that all people are interchangeable with them.

Then when it’s over they have to protect themselves so they say to themselves and others what keeps them looking good or keeps them looking like the victim. Reality has no place with these weirdos. I wouldn’t let it bother you one bit, look how crazy it is what he is doing. There is no reality basis or truth to it so who cares. It suits his purposes so he says it. It has no weight or meaning.

You know the truth and that is all you need to know. Let him go get married and do the same thing all over again to someone else. Feel relieved and very happy that it isn’t happening to you any more.

I have no idea what my former crazy said to people once I was totally gone nor do I even care. Some already saw how crazy and weird he was after we were done. He would run up to people I know and ask how our friend was, referring to me, then he would say to them I felt the relationship could have been saved, meaning he felt that. Now these people all knew what happened so how crazy does he look? He has an air of weirdness and creepiness that I saw at first and then spackled so clearly others see it.

Do you think it’s normal to be married and just continue cheating and stay married? Then get a divorce and hop right into another marriage without mourning the loss of the first one at all? That screams a lot of not dealing with reality problems to me.

My therapist who I went to for 3 months after my toxic relationship ended, said to me, “you have to be in a relationship with a level playing field.”

That is really what it all comes down to isn’t it?

Let him be crazy, don’t slide down to the lower end of the very tilted playing field that he is on to join him. Let him stand there at the bottom by himself and be crazy all by himself.

Good luck and I hope you can really take in what I said because it is without one doubt true.

You should be so grateful that this part of your life is over and revel in that fact and have fun and start enjoying a life without that kind of toxic, mean, non reality based crazy. Stop him from hurting you in any way any more. He is not worth it, or as CL says, “TRUST THAT HE SUCKS”! He Does.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

This should be a mantra: “You have to be in a relationship with a level playing field.”

KP
KP
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

“Do you think it’s normal to be married and just continue cheating and stay married? Then get a divorce and hop right into another marriage without mourning the loss of the first one at all? That screams a lot of not dealing with reality problems to me.”
That is exactly what’s happening to me, Deborah. That’s why I asked a few posts ago..why is the OW so special? Why continue to cheat on me with her for 3 years, then dump me when I find out and go directly with her permanently?

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Sandy, that jumped out at me as well. My ex was cheating for YEARS, yet stayed with me, told me he loved me every day, blah blah blah. He was fucking other people and grooming even more FOR YEARS. Then, when I kicked him out he jumped right into a ‘serious’ relationship with final OW, literally one day to the next, after knowing her for a few months of furtive fucking. He did say to someone that he can’t be alone and wasn’t going to sit around waiting to see the kids a few times a week and be alone the rest of the time so he HAD to make it work with final OW. Which is just sad as hell but no longer my problem so what the fuck ever.

SAchump
SAchump
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Yes, I always knew my cheater couldn´t be alone…and you are right about the grooming, I hadn´t realized it until you made it conscious, but my cheater has an entire entourage of students and colleagues (he is a professor) from which he has chosen three OWs (two of them married) and in the chats I discovered after DDay, I realized his most recent OW was always nervous about him cheating on her with me (!) and about other women in the said group who he seems to be grooming for the future…She knows what a cheater is like because she was cheated on by her husband when she was pregnant (and with someone with my same name). I think in some weird way she is looking for revenge on her husband through an affair with mine… Professionally she is a downgrade of me (like I was 10 years ago, except I don´t owe my Phd, publications or anything to my cheater, she does…) and I think that makes my STBX feel powerful…

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Oh, dear, that is sad indeed. They can’t be alone, they can’t commit to an adult relationship, and they can’t deal with their own mess. Old age will be horrific for these folks.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Yes, indeed!!!!

Kat
Kat
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

*shivers* There’s nothing creepier than watching them actually groom someone. Looking back I can tell you exactly when ex did this to me. Coming to terms with my ex being an evil asshole is fine. Realizing he’s a gross creep that has some behaviors in common with molesters and other sex offenders gives me the heebeejeebies.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Because you saw the man behind the mask and he knows it will never be the same with you. The Jackass literally told me that he couldn’t “tolerate” my saying that he had a FB affair with his MOW. He couldn’t TOLERATE that the way some people can’t “tolerate” milk or shellfish. Or like Gollum in the “Lord of the Rings” couldn’t tolerate anything from the elven world. “It burrrrns.” They go to the AP because they can’t be alone. It’s really pretty simple. Why move into an apartment and pay for everything and clean the toilet and go without daily kibbles?

These types of cheaters prefer cake, in secrecy, which allows them to feel superior and in control: You aren’t the boss of me; I’ve got a secret; I know things you don’t know. When you find out, that little world is ruined for them. Some cheaters thrive on continuing to gaslight and manipulate you after D-Day. That’s a new high. Others can’t tolerate that you know what they are and they just move on to the next victim. That relationship will work fine until the APs get to D-Day. Once I understood that everything a guy likes Jackass does is about managing the ferocious black hole of narcissistic need inside of him, it was easier to see that it was nothing that I did or failed to do.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

LovedaJackass, wow. I particularly appreciate, “…you saw the man behind the mask and he knows it will never be the same with you.” But the best line is, “Why move into an apartment and pay for everything and clean the toilet and go without daily kibbles?” I am smiling with this image, it is so true and so brilliant.

And you are right. Cheaters prefer secrecy as it adds to the dopamine spike in their brains and they just feel “so good.” “…the ferocious black hole of narcissistic need…” could not be said better. Thank you so much.

movingon
movingon
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

You are very wise “lovedajackass,” and I especially loved, “Why move into an apartment and pay for everything and clean the toilet and go without daily kibbles?” OMG, so true!!!

Chumpguy
Chumpguy
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“Once I understood that everything a guy likes Jackass does is about managing the ferocious black hole of narcissistic need inside of him, it was easier to see that it was nothing that I did or failed to do.”

Hmmm…this is something to really think about.

One of many great comments.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Jackass, again, you are so right. Ex said something along the lines of ‘I can’t spend the rest of my life with you sitting on your high horse after finding this out.’ Which tells me that he really hated me knowing who he really was and it freaked him right the fuck out. To this day, more than two and a half years later, he cannot look me in the eye. If he does he looks scared and stressed and weak as fuck. Just a total saddo. What a loser I married.

KP
KP
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“ferocious black hole of narcissistic need”

that’s a poem

kimmy
kimmy
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

“Their sensitivity chip is missing”!!! Absolutely spot on with this one!

I often felt as tho he would have cried for days if our dog died but would have walked right over my body if I lay motionless on the floor in front of him!

Pru
Pru
9 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

Mine too!! The dog got more affection than me.

movingon
movingon
9 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

That is so true.

jodezter
jodezter
9 years ago

“It seemed like he and I had lived two completely different realities.”
THIS
I can’t align what I know with what they’re all saying!!

Most days I try not to think about it, but it creeps in when I have to have contact.

And a policeman told me yesterday that the OW now has a restraining order against my ex, and then chuckled and told me that OW’s last 2 boyfriends have restraining orders against her.
This is what he left me and the kids for?! I am ‘less than’ this person? gah!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  jodezter

You aren’t “less than,” although he would like you to think so, I am sure. Marriage and kids, however, is less stimulating for such a guy than sneaking around, illicit sex, getting over on other people and sometimes even the intensity of a high-conflict relationship with another disordered person. Jackass’s longest relationship was with his XW, and they were locked into a battle of wills that lasted a decade and included cheating on both sides and ended in a scorched earth divorce. They are divorced but the fires of rage still burn hot. (I of course spackled all that as her fault….but now I see they are both mega screwed up.) You are a normal person. He clearly prefers crazy, until he thinks crazy will kill him. That is no reflection on you.

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  jodezter

“I am ‘less than’ this person? gah!”
You are less DRAMA than this person. Less WRECKLESS, SELFISH, IMMATURE, LOW SELF-ESTEEM. Let her and the next OW (and the next, and the next) battle it out with Restraining Orders and bar fights, you’re way above that garbage.

Mighty Mite
Mighty Mite
9 years ago

I also struggle with knowing my stbx is telling people all kinds of lies about me in order to justify his affair…and that people who know me better are choosing to believe the lies. I didn’t do anything to deserve this and yet it’s happening. I didn’t do anything to deserve being cheated on, and yet it’s happening. Hard to live with sometimes. And yet live with it I will. I know things will eventually be better for me and that the sleazy (also married) hyena will have to deal with all his shit once he can’t keep up the appearance anymore that he’s perfect and wonderful and not a broken, helpless, disordered piece of crap who will suck the life out of her. Let people think what they will; if they can’t see the reality that’s staring them in the face, then their willingness to believe lies is really about them and not me at all.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
9 years ago

” He said I was a good wife and a great mom. He even supposedly told OW that”

“last night I get word through a mutual friend that these two idiots submit to the idea that if their spouses were better spouses they would not have found each other and cheated!!!!!”

On “Sesame Street” (I think), they used to have this segment called “One of these things is not like the other”.

It’s pretty evident from the latter narrative that neither he nor his fuckbuddy were singing the sweet praises of their spouses. Does that surprise you? You have gone through 5 Ddays! 5! This can’t be the first lie you’ve come across.

In addition to “trusting that he sucks”, I would like to recommend really, really going no contact on the dirty bugger. It’s time to write-off that bad debt and realize the loss and start moving on, and I don’t think that’s possible without trusting that he sucks, and then filing him away permanently.

Awareb4
Awareb4
9 years ago

Kimmy, they can’t tell the truth.
If he went around saying, ‘ look my ex wife was great, I just cant help myself & screwing others is a massive ego stroke’.
His dick drives him & always will!
The OW thinks together they win but, he’s a mysoginist because,if he respected you, he would not belittle you. Any woman that swallows down that BS deserves him!
He has no respect period & no matter how ‘happy’ they appear, they are just two sickos in sicko delusion land. Let her have him & thank her for setting you free!
I did this & believe me, karma has come around & the OW now tells me, he’s a loser,Ya think!!! Move on with your life & don’t worry as the rot always sets in, always!

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  Awareb4

Awareb4, you have no idea how much your post helped me today. “…the rot always sets in…” My ex was an undercover misogynist and I love what you said, “if he respected you, he would not belittle you.” He belittled me daily, not to mention eating cake for two years and someone on this blog said it causes a nebulous feeling of disconnection that cannot be pinpointed so I blamed myself…is it me?…I’ll try harder…. It is truly a relief to move on from this mind fuck. It’s horrific!!!

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago

CL,
I think you should do a post naming all the reasons to throw a party celebrating the removal of a Cheater from your life. The fact that we all suffered so much and so long from what these losers did is so ridiculous. when you look at it with clear vision and away from all of the emotions that were once tied to what we all thought was a relationship that wasn’t.

The fact that we all hurt so much from the stupidity of what they do and say is something that shouldn’t even be a passing thought to us. Why is it that we don’t just automatically feel total Joy and Relief when they are gone as we should? Why do we get in our own way of our Happiness and struggle with what we thought we had when their actions clearly show that isn’t what we had. We keep hanging on to the Gah?, Wha? How? Why? of what happened and not the YAY, it’s over thank goodness part!

Perhaps this should be addressed in a fun way so that Chumps who are just starting out or are still struggling can refer to it and just laugh when they are feeling like shit.

What do you think?

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Yes, yes. Let’s start that list for throwing a party. Off the top of my head, I would say, 1) no more tension without knowing why (when he was cheating and I was in the dark); 2) no more self-blame; 3) no more being called names; 4) no more anger and self-doubt; 5) no more feeling like I was bad; 6) no more abuse; 7) no more humiliation; 8) no more disloyalty; 9) no more mind fuck; 10) no more hopium resulting in more pain; 11) no more being ignored; 12) no more lack of validation; 13) no more disrespect; 14) no more lies; 15) no more betrayal….and these are just a few. This is an important list. As CL says, stop pining over a flaming dog turn. LOL.

Deborah, I love love love what you said, “The fact that we all hurt so much from the stupidity of what they do and say is something that shouldn’t even be a passing thought to us.” This is making me sing with inspiration. One of my problems though in getting to this place that you just said is the bashing down I have endured for so long; shrinking myself; doubting…I need to unwind, heal, and remember who I am.

I am going to just start saying YAY, it’s over every day until the neurochemicals in my brain actual believe it. That is called healing.

Mehphista
Mehphista
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Hear hear. ‘Getting from ‘Gah!’ to ‘Meh’.

It is not easy, but I take comfort from the senior Chumps who have managed it.

love to all,
x-Meh.

Lisa
Lisa
9 years ago

Mutual friend? NO! No friend would tell you something like that, even if they did say it! What is the point of passing that tidbit on to you? It isn’t to make you feel better. A friend would know that there is no point in repeating anything like this to you. Sorry to say, that any friend of his is no friend of yours.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Lisa

I have a friend who just HAD to share with me information she saw on his Facebook page. (I have him blocked on mine.)

The first thing I said is, “Why in the fuck do you think I really want to know any of this?” She was blank. She knows to not do it again. It bothered me though that she looked him up with the sole purpose of telling me stuff. She never considered that this might sting. Sometimes, people are idiots.

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

One of my friends started to tell me something she saw on my ex’s Facebook page and I held my hand up to stop before she said another word. I told her that no one tells me anything about what he’s doing, not even my kids. I don’t want to know what he’s doing. His life no longer has anything to do with mine except for the maintenance checks that arrive monthly.

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

RK, I just got this a couple weekends ago where a mutual “friend” called to tell me that X was in a particular place. It was a special place for the X and me. My “friend” calls with this information, along with who he was with—a whole rundown—before I stopped her. First off, if you knew me and cared about me, you would know that I am attempting to be NC, and that means no stories about what he’s doing and with whom.

All this does is stir the pot. She said, “I thought you’d want to know.” I asked…”Why? What good does it do ME to know he’s spoiling the few good memories I have of my time with him, confirming for me that he really never loved me by stomping all over these things?” She didn’t have an answer.

When I took a step back and sent it through my logic machine, she did it because she likes the drama. Stir the pot and stand back! Well, I don’t need “friends” like that in my life. I need people who respect what I say and need.

If I were you, if she does it again, I’d block her as well, from everything. Be cordial, but no information goes to her about anything. If she’s telling you tales about him, what makes you sure she’s not playing both sides. I am suspecting that my “friend” is doing just that—and I have cut her off.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  buttercup

I don’t know if she has a clue really, but I do think it’s a little bit of encouraging the drama. Kinda like . . . “Girrrrl you’ll never guess what I found out!” kind of shit. You’d think she’d be smart enough to figure out I don’t really care since I never talk about him with her and I keep our conversations about other things that matter.

But yeah, if she does it again, I’m not going to answer her calls and will just let her slip away. I ain’t got time for dat!!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

It’s possible that she was trying to be “loyal” and thinking that you might want to know. In early days, some of my friends kept an eye on the MOW on social media and it felt like solidarity. Once I got my feet under me, we all lost interest in their silly doings.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

“I have a friend who just HAD to share with me information she saw on his Facebook page. (I have him blocked on mine.)”
I get that too, rumble. I just can’t handle knowing the crap he and the OW are posting about their true love, and how great their life is, blah blah blah. Yet people insist on saying “OMG did you see what he posted on FB about the two of them?” Ummm…no. I didn’t. I don’t want to. But hey, thanks for making me feel bad all the same!

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago
Reply to  Lisa

“Gossip is the most deadly microbe. It has neither legs nor wings. It is composed entirely of tales, and most of them have stings.”

When people do this type of thing, tell you hurtful information (and not even stopping to analyze whether it could be true or not. which is irrelevant, by the way) that will serve no other purpose to YOU—it’s to harm you. That person is not a friend and should be cut away immediately!

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago

It seems too that I went from shiny perfection to dull imperfection and of course what else is a guy to do only to seek out a new model to match his eternal shiny perfection. He told me he really started to ‘discover himself’ after he left (read cheated and me kicking his ass out), as if it were me hindering that freedom and discovery of self. And here’s the stupid thing – I believed him, that it was my fault somehow!

If only having babies had not changed me, or the suicide of a loved one, or all of the other things that happen as time lesses. If only I had preserved myself and stayed in an attic somewhere he would so not have cheated all those times. But stupid me, I lost my lustre and my ex had every right to trade me in.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Tonya

Oh, Jackass used that old “I have a new life” thing BEFORE I caught him, to explain his disengagement and distancing. Turned out his new life was texting and do whatever with his MOW, being “friendly” to the clerks at the Wendy’s drive through, and reveling in MOW kibbles about how wonderful he was at 18 (as she says,”for me you will always be 18 and dancing away with my heart”}. He “new life” is just regressing to his life at 18, when he was the kid most likely to succeed, complete with moving back to the old family home. I think they are mindfucking themselves with this notion, as well as trying to sound plausible to people who see their douchbaggery and are repelled.

My new life was somewhat more rigorous, as I had to actually change my life to recover financially and emotionally.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“LovedaJackass” you are so much further along in your recovery and awareness and it is very helpful to me. We have such a similar situation with EH adult adolescents. So true, the regression, while I am left with PTSD, expensive therapy, hurt children, lower socioeconomic status, and all the other myriad of feelings.

andstillirise
andstillirise
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Re: the ‘new life’ of regressing to a (fictive) 18…

This post captures the crazy waste of cheater stories. To discard a sustaining and substantial 30 year relationship with a person of value and discernment for the shallow and delusional feelings engendered by that straight-to-dvd drek dialog from a married ‘woman’ (who herself still sounds 12). How sad is that.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  andstillirise

It’s horribly sad. On every metric used by normal people, his life would have been better with me than if he lived alone or if his MOW separated and they lived together, as I suspect the case is for most of the cheaters whose partners use this board. But people like this are driven by that black hole of narcissistic need, not love or logic or gratitude for the blessings in life.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  Tonya

Yes, well, you became a grown up and he didn’t. My therapist told me this once and it struck a chord in me because I realised that ex could not deal with me not being perfect, me changing, me having my own ups and downs and me actually having needs and getting grumpy when my sub-conscious was trying to tell me and my needs were not getting a look in in any way for a very long time.

Fuck these chuckleheads. They’re dull.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Nord, it’s amazing how slowly we learned to expect so little. I guess that’s the boiling frog thing.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

It’s like dating an adolescent with a short attention span, but the adolescent is supposed to hold down a job, contribute to a marriage, keep up a house and raise kids. What they want is the 9th grade girl with big boobs or the good-looking, entitled high school prom king and all the attendant drama, intensity and obsession.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Actually, final OW is universally said to be rather plain and dull. I assume this gives ex more room to sparkle.

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago
Reply to  Tonya

*time passes

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago

Holy cow – the post and comments are like a commentary on my marriage and its demise. My stbx is a serial cheater and has cheated on numerous women before me. Yet in his mind, he’s the sensitive victim, manipulated by cunning shrews, who just never seem to appreciate his goodness and drive him to other women for attention and validation ( he wants only to help them, but he’s pressured into fucking them). After DDay – I was “perfect”, “awesome”, loved and admired by my friends, the only woman he’s ever wanted to marry, honest, loyal, exceptionally fair, etc. Once, when I expressed my fear that this experience would embitter me and forever change me for the worse, he wrote: “your worst is far better than most others’ best.”
Now, I am a greedy, manipulative, unforgiving harpy, being unfavorably compared to one of the OW, and deemed wholly unappreciative because I was not effusive enough for flowers sent to my office 10 years ago or a surprise trip to Disney planned one month after the launch of my new firm (in which I am the principal) 6 years ago. Since initiating a divorce that he still does not want, and his claims that his life is now ruined, his recently-formed narrative is that I am “inherently-unlikeable” and likely to struggle with future friendships and romantic relationships. Ummm, okay. I’ll ruminate on that while I am cavorting in London next week with my bffs of 30 years!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

Not undermining you much, eh? –> “a surprise trip to Disney planned one month after the launch of my new firm (in which I am the principal) 6 years ago.”

fiestypants
fiestypants
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

My hubby got an email last month from his EW claiming that she’s moving away from where they used to live and needs closure, he’d be such a dear to help. She wanted to have an “open and honest” conversation. This is 2 years AFTER she left him, initiated the divorce and he confronted her on her affairs (she never owned up to how many and never came to terms that she committed adultery). I called it for what it was from the get-go, total BS. After many drafts, we finally came up with a more grace-filled yet direct response (as he is a Minister he wanted to keep the snark minimal. I would have been all snark on the other hand-ha). He called it as it was. The marriage ended b/c she said “yes” to affairs, lies, divorce and “no” to him, their marriage and God. He was not going to meet with her, as it would be disrespectful to his new marriage (me!) and encouraged her to look in a mirror. Oh boy that made her mad that he wouldn’t play into her narrative. She responded back that he was still playing the victim, is living under deception and if he ever wants to have an “open and honest” conversation her offer still stands. HA! Wow…. her house of cards is going to fall and fall down HARD!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  fiestypants

She’s like a fly buzzing around his head. Tell her, “Look honey, you’re not even in my orbit anymore. Go have a fabulous life somewhere else.” ha ha

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

“inherently-unlikeable” . . . that’s a good one. Enjoy London! 🙂

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Tx RK! Stbx always loved this crowd and on one weekend with them he stated “this is one of the best days of my life”, which means of course, “I will someday describe this day as insufferably restrictive, in that these were my ex’s friends and I was a marginalized captive.”

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

They all do the exact same shit don’t they?

Mine used to tell me that he loved how social I was, and that I was always optimistic and he liked that we had so much fun together. Later it was, “Well . . . this probably would have never happened if you weren’t so self-centered, non-social, and negative.”

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Self-centered translates to: possessive of needs, interests and relationships that take away from your focus on and service of him.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

Yep. I was such a horrible wife. 😉

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Yeah RK – what a bitch you were on one of the best memories of his life.
I’m grateful I didn’t get any of that shit about laying the blame on me (he just left). Nor have I heard him say a bad word about me. I’m the one with the potty mouth about him so I need to try and hold my dignity in better – ONCE I’m over my anger. So, I do feel better reading your stories – thanks.
However, he did tell me I was looking old. And, the omission of things he wouldn’t say about my figure – which, I kept in shape for 58 yrs…but whatever. I’m sure he and the OW will have talked about many things I’m so incapable of.

DoneNow
DoneNow
9 years ago

It took me some time to realize it, but I can’t accept the good things my ex said or says about me any more than the bad. Because none of it is based in reality or mutuality. It’s a big head trip, one that has been hard to deal with. But I think I’m finally getting it. Mine used to have “episodes” about every six to eight months, where he would tell me out of the blue how unhappy he was, and everything that was wrong with me, and sulk and be depressed for a few day. Then it was back to “normal.” I was the only woman for him, and he was happy, because he’d gotten my attention, my pleas, my crying my eyes out. At first it killed me. In retrospect, I think it may have been part of a cycle of cheating that I was completely unaware of. Then I just came to expect it. I stopped crying and told him if he was that unhappy he could do something about it-counseling, making changes, whatever he thought would work, or he could leave. And you know what? He never left. None of it was real. He could have changed the course of our relationship or decided to leave so many times, but he never did. Because none of his complaints were real-they were manipulations meant to get what he wanted from me. I spun my wheels for over 20 years trying to make someone happy who was probably perfectly happy (his kind of happy) the whole time.

Dani
Dani
9 years ago
Reply to  DoneNow

DoneNow – This is spot on! Cheaters are perfectly happy with the cycle they create and are even happier when they manipulate you into playing along. I, for one, as most glad to be done with that mess.

Dani
Dani
9 years ago
Reply to  Dani

AM most glad… sheesh!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  DoneNow

Some people “use” alcohol, food, drugs, or gambling to alter their emotional state. Others “use” people. Good for you for figuring it out. It was never about you.

Alyosha
Alyosha
9 years ago

“Did I cheat on you? Decimate your finances? Leave you with a twitch? Do you require years of therapy? Got trust issues? Are you a single parent on a fixed income? Hey! It’s all for the BEST!”

Lines like this are why I keep coming back to CL. Truth through humor is therapeutic. They really are supremely f*cked up human beings.

…and OP, trust that he sucks because he does.

Focus on living of life of kindness and dignity and integrity. Don’t waste another thought trying to figure out the disordered.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  Alyosha

Alyosha (from The Brother’s Karamazov? just curious). Well said: “Did I cheat on you? Decimate your finances? Leave you with a twitch? Do you require years of therapy? Got trust issues? Are you a single parent on a fixed income? Hey! It’s all for the BEST!”

My ex’s MOW said in an e-mail to him: “All I know through everything with you is the simple truth of how I feel, and the simple truth and goodness of falling in love with you, and that is not a crime. Nobody can handle these things well, or “right” at all times. I truly believe we are doing the best we can, and that the trueness of our great friendship speaks for itself.”

It just reeks of narcissism. Did she consider her husband at the time? Me? My children? The fact that my ex kept it secret because he knew I would fight for alimony, child support, and the house of which I got nothing??? She doesn’t know that I have PTSD, expensive therapy, that my teenage daughter is suffering because ex has abandoned her as well? I am baffled and still have trouble believing that people can do these hurtful things and then justify their behaviors in this sick way. It really seriously blows my mind that these relationships are based on a foundation of devastation and destruction but they don’t see any of it. No remorse, no guilt, no apology, just off into the sunset.

It’s a miracle that any of us get to “meh”.

Monika
Monika
9 years ago
Reply to  b.f.

I know this won’t change much and it may not even make you feel better better, but know that there’s no doubt in sane person’s mind that those OWs, OMs, cheaters, cheaters’ support system, and their ilk are a sick bunch. I agree wholeheartedly that narcissism is always present in infidelity, and I think Tracy is being kind and perhaps careful when she states that it is a “narcissistc act” at the least, but in my opinion, and my therapist’s opinion those sickos always exhibit traces of sociopathy. Traces at the least, could qualify as full blown sociopaths in some cases. We hate to think of the people we trusted, made kids with, shared a life for decades to be known as complete beyond repair damaged souls, but the quicker we accept this, the quicker we can move on.
During therapy I’ve learned that a person who exhibits sociopathic traits isn’t necessarily one who is always “bad.” We tend to think of a sociopath as a anti-social bully who kicks puppies. Not at all. It is often Joe Smith who works at the cashier register at Lowes who has a wife and three kids and a few friends. He can make small talk and appear totally normal and even fake his empathy. Oh, how much I’ve learned in therapy. There’s a good book on the subject titles “the sociopath next door” that explains the basics. A real eye opener:

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  Monika

Monika, it does help to know this. It helps me to move on; to leave it behind me. Thank you for the information and your insight. And it’s so true what you said that we hate to think of people we trusted as so damaged, but it is the truth. I know exactly what you are talking about too as the double image these narcs and/or socios project. My ex presents sensitivity, emotion, and understanding. But it was always a veil hiding misogyny, passive aggression, and a mean spirited judgmental abusive assaholic. I feel very fortunate to be with an understanding group that gets this as it was so crazy making.

Supreme Chump
Supreme Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  Alyosha

Lines like that are all too true. It all just makes me sick.

Me
Me
9 years ago

“A person like this is not tethered to reality, so why do you care what he thinks?”

Tattoo that somewhere. That word picture says it all.

Standing ovation CL.

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago

Kimmy,
I’m going to echo everyone here—marriage to you was so completely miserable that he HAD to cheat, yet, he couldn’t leave.

Why not? I mean, did you hog tie him in the basement before leaving for work every day, take his cellphone, hide his car keys, put bars on the windows….etc? Did you threaten to kill him if he left?

No. He’s a COWARD and a cake eater. He’s justifying his shitty choices by blaming you–typical for these pathetic pieces of shit.

You have to remember that everyone in this situation has an agenda, except for you. You want the truth so that you can truly move on. Unfortunately, you won’t get it, you’re going to have to let that go. The words that HE spouts mean nothing—remember all of the wonderful things he promised when he married you? How about after D-Day #1, #2, #3……so were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Because YOU know, nothing (other than you finally having enough of his shit and kicking him out and him being the one humiliated in front of family and friends) has changed about YOU.

The thing is, they never get this—it’s not you, it’s not the OW, it’s not their job or their house or their family or their kids or the neighbors—it’s THEM. They hide, but they cannot run.

Did he ever have kind things to say about people…or did that slowly change over time—where he’d be all gung-ho about someone and slowly but surely that person turned to shit in his opinion? Mine did this—nothing kind to say about ANYBODY. It was always “Me and You Against Them”. Isolation techniques. Don’t talk to so-and-so—well…yeah….because so-and-so might tell me a reality based version of what XH was telling me!

Kimmy, don’t worry about this. The ones who love you will believe none of his bullshit. The ones who aren’t worth your time, will not….and you can cut them loose. OW clearly is in that camp—do you really give a shit what she thinks? Image management is HIS biggest worry, not yours. You live your life with integrity and those who matter will get it.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  buttercup

“The thing is, they never get this—it’s not you, it’s not the OW, it’s not their job or their house or their family or their kids or the neighbors—it’s THEM. They hide, but they cannot run.”

YES!!!!

Toni
Toni
9 years ago
Reply to  buttercup

Wow BC!

Mine made up a horrible story about a friend saying something to his EW about me. I was baffled and hurt for the longest time till I finally got rid of him – When I figured out what he’d done I asked her, and she doesn’t even know his EW! And the wife before her was a horrible person too, she “tricked” him into getting her pregnant and on and on and on. She and I are friends on FB now – we never discuss him but I paid attention to their daughter, something he never did. So many crazy F-d up lies for no reason except to cover up his life long using of people. He is nothing but a body with nothing but needs – which have to be met – no matter how many people he hurts….

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago

And my XH wouldn’t have cheated if I hadn’t “made” him get on Facebook. His old girlfriend would never have found him and he wouldn’t have strayed. He actually said this when we were giving our depositions before the divorce. Of course, this doesn’t explain cheating with old girlfriend #1 from since BEFORE we were married. But, hey, things just happen, right?

CL is right. He is now the OW’s problem.

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
9 years ago

You can’t fix stupid, and you can’t fix crazy. (Not that I didn’t try; it’s called spackling.)

When the ex told me in an email that my inherited farm had been acquired solely with his income, I knew he had been spinning himself a totally different reality. A check of the property records would have told OW what the truth was, but it’s just easier to go along with the lie because then they have their precious justification for screwing another person over.

Kimmy, they have to keep telling lies about you because that’s what their relationship is based on! Whenever I hear about another lie I realize that I win! They don’t really love each other, they’re just using each other. He wants a ready source of dopamine hits so that he doesn’t feel like an old haz-been, and she was willing to trade sex for a man who could buy her a big house so she could feel important and better than her crass upbringing. It’s all about image management, and the lies are part of it. But it’s not about love.

When they’re thinking with the little head, don’t expect big head attributes such as honesty, integrity, empathy or intelligence.

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

I agree. They get tied to the lie right off the bat, because “my wife is a frigid psycho” sounds better than “she’s a wonderful woman that I don’t have a problem fucking around on”. He has no choice now but to stick the story, with her and all the other people he told the story to.

Give people credit….they know a load of crap when they hear it, and the fact that they both cheated on their spouses to be together….well, people can put 2 and 2 together. When the wheels start to fall off for them – and they will, they are both proven cheaters – they’re going to create an aura of ugliness around them that can’t be covered up with excuses.

Don’t worry about what they say. Less people believe it than you assume, and those that do won’t believe it for long. They are consistently the agents of their own destruction. It will come.

Wastedheart
Wastedheart
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

Mine advised one of the other women that before he was married, he “never” had a mortgage, then woefully recounted his taxes, the unmanageable size of our house, my alleged plans for a kitchen renovation, etc. The truth was that his pre-marital home had a bigger mortgage than our marital home, and that the mortgage on his investment property at that point was higher than its equity. He could never take responsibility for even patent falsities, always minimizing the obvious intent of his lies with “what I meant is” or “I didn’t mean to suggest” or “if I left her with the impression that..” or she already knew to the contrary”. He could not say “I lied. I chose to tell a blatant lie to give my MOW the impression that you were greedy and materialistic, to make me seem generous and unappreciated, and to soothe any concerns about fiscal irresponsibility she may have given that my wife was a successful professional while I barely worked at what I had disclosed to her was a failing business.”

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
9 years ago
Reply to  Wastedheart

They lie like they breathe.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

Patsy: ‘your capacity to lie is terrifying’
Mr Patsy [not even looking up from his iPad] ‘I know’

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

Really. Wow.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

See that is just so hard to register, though I know it’s true (no pun intended, the lies that is).

namedforvera
namedforvera
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

If their lips are moving, they’re lying….

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago

I really do envy the chumps here who are not bothered by what their cheater says or thinks about them, I wish I were like you. I fear running into any of our old friends because I am certain he told them I am crazy. I am certain he made himself look like a long suffering partner. I am also certain that he’s told almost everyone (including his daughters) that he only found the other woman after we separated. These lies hurt. A lot.

But on my better days I pull myself up tall, take a deep breath, and try to behave with dignity. I tell myself if someone thinks I’m crazy due to what my husband said about me, then they are not very discerning people. I try to remind myself that these people know my husband, and might suspect that he is full of B.S.

So, Kimmy, for us this feeling of caring about what they say about us (how they lie about us) is something that will slowly fade away. Until then we just need to hold on and trust that they suck.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Moving Liquid – that sucks. But, I assume the people who’ve known me for over 35 yrs we’ve been friends/relatives with KNOW what I am made up of by now. I don’t think my asshat would try and put me at any low level with these people who know me. I do think he’s too smart for that. He says he thinks divorce is private and refuses to answer details. His image is really smarting and he sure doesn’t want to add to it by making me out like I’m crazy. Nobody would believe him!

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Hah! Thank goodness for small favors?

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Same thing here ML, my X just lies about our marriage and even lies about when he met the OP. The thing is, I let him say what he wants. It doesn’t bother me, because Hey, he’s a fucking liar and a cheat. He can say whatever he wants. We don’t have a lot of shared friends now after I did a Facebook sweep so it just doesn’t matter. Say whatever the fuck you want. It doesn’t change the fact that I know the truth, and he does too. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t feel the need to lie.

You can’t put stock into any words that fall out of his face. And frankly, if people really do believe him and take his side, they can fuck off too. That’s the good thing about divorce; I don’t have to associate with a multitude of people I didn’t really like anyway. (I.E. the hyena in-laws, the cheating friends, the low-rent buddies from his old neighborhood.) If they choose to believe him, who cares? I know the truth of what killed our marriage and other people don’t get it, fuck ’em.

Oh and as an aside, here’s a guy that is now engaged to his schmoopie-poo, a mere 3 months after our divorce. Now if people see this, and don’t think that’s hinky, I don’t want to be friends with them anyway. lol Clearly, not my sort of folks.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Hyena-in-laws. Now that’s funny.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Here’s what we know about these kind of cheaters: they lie, cheat, live double lives, and have no compunction treating people they are supposed to love like trash they toss out of their pickup trucks. Anyone who looks at their life trajectory and the debris they leave behind them can see it: “Here’s a guy that is now engaged to his schmoopie-poo, a mere 3 months after our divorce. Now if people see this, and don’t think that’s hinky, I don’t want to be friends with them anyway. lol Clearly, not my sort of folks.” Exactly.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

RK, I’m grateful that we have no mutual friends, but I still may run into his pals when I’m out. The only good news is my appearance has changed a lot and they probably won’t know it’s me! So I don’t know why I care what those people think of me except it’s just hard to know you’ve been lied about. I still subscribe to the old adage, “Living well is the best revenge” and that is what I plan to do.

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

My mama always said, “If you feel the need to lie, perhaps you shouldn’t be doing whatever it is that you are lying about.”

My XH had no friends and we lived 4 miles away from his hometown. Never met one. He just took up with all of mine and I didn’t grow up here.

Now he has moved south to live in her hometown and has picked up with all of her friends.

The trouble with lying is that eventually the truth catches up, because, I don’t know if you noticed, but liars tend to change the lie. They add to or subtract from and when you catch them in it, they tell another lie to cover that one until, eventually, they don’t even remember the first lie that started it all. Someone will be listening one day and figure it all out just as I did. Well, unless they are all stupid. Which is a distinct possibility.

beachi
beachi
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

you go…

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

I, too, hate the thought of what he has told others, only because I know what he told me about his first two marriages. He isn’t here and my friends all know the truth, but he has moved to a whole new community and has quickly become the “savior” of the town, buying the local hardware store, hiring new people, saving the fireworks display for this year through his “generosity”. I know that he and the OW never told anyone there how they met and I am sure they are also saying they got together after he and I separated (nothing could be further from the truth). I cannot tell you how many times I have wanted to send mail to her whole family (and there are many) to let them know just exactly how their sister/mother/cousin/aunt got together with the wonderful man she finds herself with. He has also told everyone that he is an engineer when, in fact, he never took a single college course. And, no one questions it and even his own daughters don’t set the record straight. Even the OW believes that he is!

I think about it all and then I think to myself, they will all find out on their own one day because lies have a way of coming back around to bite you in the ass when you least expect it. I wait for that day of Karma.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  AnnieW56

Well, he’s already had to run to another town to escape who he is and who they are together. Once the sparkles wear off that relationship, where does he go next?

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

He can’t stop running. If he did he would have to look in the mirror and see who he really is.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  AnnieW56

Wow, Annie. I agree. Anyone who knows our husbands/ex-husbands will know the truth in time because they are still the same person they were with us: liars.

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

That’s exactly the way it happens, because they can’t live the lie enough to sell it. Sooner or later, what they are shines through. You are vindicated. Not only that, you are respected for what you went through, what you came through, and how you handled it. And…everybody feels pretty bad for ever believing them in the first place.

Just stay true to yourself, and your values. It may not be ‘ok’ right now, but it will be in the end.

LimboLand
LimboLand
9 years ago

I needed to read this post today!!! And all of the comments…..I am spending waaaayyyy too much time trying to figure out what I did wrong and feeling guilty about kicking him out and divorcing him. From his family I am getting the line “well you are the one who filed.” In my head I know I was done being lied to and I refuse to be a doormat. In my heart, I am beating myself up for divorcing my kids father. However, he still lies to me, he still lies to his family and he is still seeing OW. I just need to TRUST THAT HE SUCKS.

b.f.
b.f.
9 years ago
Reply to  LimboLand

Yes LL trust that he sucks.

beachi
beachi
9 years ago
Reply to  LimboLand

You are a terrible wife, how could you divorce tha