Dear Chump Lady, Husband said OW’s name during sex

saynameDear Chump Lady,

My husband had a six-year affair with Jackie. I found out six months ago and we have been diligently working to reconcile. He claims to disclose all, but last night I confronted him with debit card charges to hotels and restaurants. He had told me that she paid for all the hotels and they never went out. He was “shocked” by the charges and said he honestly didn’t remember them. There were a lot of expensive meals and hotels. Tried to tell me they were years ago, but dates were last November, December and this year. Claims that’s how much he hated her, he blanked it out.

I figure let’s keep this in perspective. We worked it out by 2 a.m. last night and were having sex when he says, “This feels so good let’s do this all day Ja…” Horrified, I start sobbing, “You called me Jackie!”

He claims I was squishing him and knocked the air out of his chest and he made the ‘ja’ sound, but caught himself and was as horrified as I was as he immediately thought I would think he was he was saying her name.

Is this believable? He has also threatened me — get out of his sight, and said to throw him out if I don’t believe him.

I am exhausted.

Signed,

LosingMyMind

Dear LosingMyMind,

I don’t believe him. Can we throw him out, please?

Let’s review why this “reconciliation” is not sustainable.

  1. SIX-year affair. Six years. SIX YEARS. Six. Six!!! Your husband is a–okay with the double life thing. He can sustain lying to your face for 2,190 days straight without flinching. This is someone who prefers cake as a lifestyle. Six years!
  2. He’s gaslighting you. Pay no attention to the EVIDENCE — hotel and restaurant receipts. Pay no attention to the TIME STAMPS. Pay no attention to the missing marital monies. No wonder you feel like you’re losing your mind — he’s denying your reality. THE reality. That’s a recipe to make anyone stark, raving bonkers.
  3. You reward his lies with sex. The pick-me dance performed naked. It makes you sob. Let’s keep this “in perspective”? Okay — “this” is fucked up.
  4. He threatens you. Can’t you just feel the remorse?
  5. Jackie is still in the picture. She’s there in the hotel receipts and on his mind. She’s a very convenient tool to bludgeon you with. Heck, I’m not even sure your husband made a “mistake” calling out her name, and then denying it. This is your cue to pick me dance harder! More frantically! Is your self-esteem worn down to a nub? Good. Gaslighting for the sake of gaslighting means you’ll just accept his version of reality, no matter how outlandish. Cake is maintained.

Let me tell you how this plays out next. After you read this and get uppity and start asserting reality — he will punish you. The channel will be firmly set to “self-pity.”

Really, Losing? You’re going to throw it all away because of ONE STUPID MISTAKE? Which wasn’t even a mistake? It was a MONOSYLLABLE! Ja could MEAN ANYTHING! Jammy Dodger! Jacobite! Jabberwocky! Why must you punish him for this trifle?

So you’re not going to assert reality to a fuckwit, Losing. You’re going to go straight to a lawyer and start lining up those ducks to leave him. Because you have absolutely NOTHING to work with here. He’s not sorry. He’s not truthful. And he’s still cheating.

If he doesn’t like the consequences you’re about to lay on him? Tell him to blank it out. Apparently that’s what he does when he just hates things so much. Tell him it’s much easier to divorce him unconscious. Press for a better settlement!

Let the fuckwit be Jackie’s problem. She’s sustained the pick me dance for six years. What do you want to guess, he says your name too?

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Lovey dovey
Lovey dovey
7 years ago

You are absolutely right on. I left one of these 5 years ago. I love my life SO MUCH MORE!!!!!

Lovey dovey
Lovey dovey
7 years ago

Can you do a blog in what we are grateful not to have?

Drama….fuckwits…receipts……texts to the ow.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
7 years ago
Reply to  Lovey dovey

Yes, please. Two-plus years later, I am grateful not to have:
– the gut problems I suffered the last five years of our marriage, for which doctors could find no cause (gone! poof!!);
– watching the clock but feeling guilty for watching the clock, so much wanting him to come home on time from work just once to show me (not tell me!) that he’d rather be home with me than at his restaurant;
– making up the day’s agenda, because he really can’t be bothered to decide where to eat or hike, or even what to do or not do. Addendum: No matter what I decide, he doesn’t really like it;
– cooking for someone who can’t even be bothered to say thanks, all because one day I TOLD him I thought it was rude that he didn’t say thanks and so now he didn’t FEEL like saying it because he was EXPECTED to do so;

I could go on & on…

MovingOn
MovingOn
7 years ago
Reply to  Lovey dovey

Yes… I am so grateful that I only spent about five days doing the pick-me dance. This letter made me feel so sad. I remember being back there and how hollow I felt inside; I was so scared to end the marriage. I am so glad that I did. Let Jackie have him, Losing. The only “losing” you will be doing will be losing the toxicity and disrespect this man brings into your life.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago
Reply to  MovingOn

I faked this dance. I already had evidence he is living with his whore.
I was texting him in the evening, with sweet texts pleading for reconciliation. I knew she was sitting next to him, bothered by him texting back. I disturbed their romantic evenings and it felt soooo good! Gave a her a taste of her own medicine, whoring babysitter!

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  MovingOn

Yes this.

Fuckthem
Fuckthem
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

my dance was for about a week. during which I lost 10 pounds and was devastated and he continued to fuck his “friend” he denied he was fucking in the first place. (thanks uber for the subpoenaed records and PI that confirmed her address).
I’m sorry but 6 years is unforgivable. 1 time is but for Christ sake, 6 years? NO FUCKING WAY. Let Jackie have that loser. He’ll cheat on her too if he hasn’t already.
And the gas lighting? OMG. I hate men. will never date again.

Devil on a Chain
Devil on a Chain
7 years ago
Reply to  Fuckthem

But, many more men do this shit than women. Sorry- those are the facts.

I did not see women strolling around Cambodia and Thailand with 12 year old boys to fuck.

I don’t see groups of women cat calling men on the street, and groups of college girls raping men who get drunk at frat parties.

Most women will hang on with her bloody fingertips to make a marriage work.

I am not saying there may be some decent men out there, but when someone tries to sell anyone the myth that men and women are cut from the same cloth- no way.

Go to a strip club. Watch. Observe. Learn. Then tell me most men are decent. Even the men posting on here *know* how men talk and think and the rubric for cheating:
1) opportunity
2) likelihood of getting caught

Arnold
Arnold
7 years ago

You are absolutely wrong that men do this more than women. It is close to 50/50 with women in the 25_45 age range outpacing men. Overall men are slightly in the lead but only due to the over 65 women being outpaced dramatically.
But,among the under 65 crowd,women are just as likely to cheat.
Again,in the 25-45 demograhic,they have a slight edge.

Creativerational
Creativerational
7 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Arnold I haven’t seen you here in awhile. Nice to see you! I agree, I think women tend do be more subtextual with this. More EA, or more sneaky, but I totally think women cheat as much as men, I dunno. It’s dumb

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago

I know i should just drop this and agree to disagree, but i don’t accept the idea that the existence of many decent men is a myth. I know we females here have had horrible encounters with complete assholes, but that one asshole in my life in no way cancels out my father, brother, cousins, many lovely male friends and coworkers, and the large number of wonderful guy chumps here. Hate the particular assholes, absolutely, but appreciate and celebrate the good guys out there. Okay, I promise I will now let this drop.

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago
Reply to  Fuckthem

There are a lot of lovely men who would treat you as you deserve. Don’t write off the whole gender. Just as we females do not all behave like UXworld’s KK …

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago
Reply to  MovingOn

+1

ChutesandLadders
ChutesandLadders
7 years ago
Reply to  Lovey dovey

Add:

the skeevy remnants of his mangrooming in the bathroom sink and floor (that you’re expected to clean) found before his date, er, “work function” with the bimbo.

Angie
Angie
7 years ago

Man Scaping….OMG…I’m fairly new here…. Just made the connection. I even helped out, by shaving his fucking back. Almost 4 months out and life is s-l-o-w-l-y coming back. GET OUT LosingMyMind. You are not LOSING YOUR MIND, he is stealing it. GET OUT NOW.

Vastra
Vastra
7 years ago
Reply to  Angie

I’m still have pennies drop years on
Eg suddenly ex wanted me to wax his back for him, starting trimming his pubic hair… how dumb was I?!

Stephanie
Stephanie
7 years ago

Jeez, I should be grateful that The Coward left manscaping remnants in the master bath toilet for me to flush. And I mean a MOUND of gray pubes (ulllllgh!) So considerate of him! Or, an artistic impression of a giant middle finger. He’s artistic, you know.
Ohhh, my God I do not miss him.

New Me
New Me
7 years ago
Reply to  Stephanie

I think I just threw up in my mouth!

mary
mary
7 years ago
Reply to  New Me

Mine used to ask me to check the state of his haemerhoids for him…a task I gladly relinquish to OW.

Geode
Geode
7 years ago
Reply to  Stephanie

Mine was to old to bother manscaping. Or was his feet before bed. Instead he’d douse his neck with expensive cologne at 11:00 pm so I couldn’t smell anything through my aching head.

kmanning
kmanning
7 years ago

Oh, my god–the monospacing detritus all over the bathroom! I do not miss that, but somehow I had forgotten it. Guess I blanked it out…

kmanning
kmanning
7 years ago
Reply to  kmanning

*manscaping got autocorrected

Mightychump
Mightychump
7 years ago

Are these cheaters for real with their lies? Do they not realised how ludicrous they sound? Let Jackie have at this guy. Your life will be so much better for not having him in it.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago
Reply to  Mightychump

the more they lie and the more she believes, the less he respects her. He’s testing: how deep is your love? or how stupid are you?

Finally realized
Finally realized
7 years ago
Reply to  Enraged

YES! This was such a bitter lesson for me to learn so late in life. The more he lied, and the more I tried desperately to believe him, the less respect he had for me. A very simple formula, really. I was so slow to understand it, though.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago

I know, it hurts like hell to come to this realisation. But understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you or any chump. There are empty people out there, without a heart or soul. Empty shells, carcasses. Predators, who are out to hunt: sex, money, fame, even attention. They are really good at playing roles of human beings…
And if you realise this and detach from this toxic tango, they will instantly leave you. Because you know. If they are really sick, they’ll try to tear you apart. That’s why is important to keep your head up, cut your losses and make new connections. It’s not healthy to be disconnected from the rest of humanity. This is part of our evolution.
I think Tracy does a marvellous job at keep a community together, helping our collective wisdom to evolve.

Geode
Geode
7 years ago
Reply to  Enraged

How deep is your love + how stupid are you = what I can get away with

getting real
getting real
7 years ago

I swear the fuckwittery is endless.

Attorney. Ducks. File. Leave. Live.

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago

Jackie sounds really special. This guy is really disconnected from his penis, but these types can literally sex anyone. Too bad you didn’t have another guys name in your mouth at the time, but you dont want to play his game. Leave before his tryst leave you with a special gift.

Crushed
Crushed
7 years ago

He has just begged/dared/challenged you to throw him out. He wants to leave but he wants to blame you. Line up those ducks and make him so uncomfortable that he leaves on his own initiative. Middle-schooler maturity level requires middle-schooler tactics.

UXworld
UXworld
7 years ago
Reply to  Crushed

“He wants to leave but he wants to blame you. ”

YES YES YES.

Kunty Kibbler pushed and pushed every limit to where I was forced to make the decision for both of us, then had the nerve several weeks later to say “… but you WANTED this!!”

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Mine said, “I tried so hard, but you never wanted me back anyway.”

How hard did he “try?”

*3 days after I found the condoms and sexual harassment notes in his computer bag, and he knew divorce was a very strong possibility, he still took his mistress on a trip to China with him.

*Continually blamed his affair on me, “You should obsess less about my affair and more about why I was unhappy with you at the time!”

*After I’d repeatedly said I wanted to divorce, he booked a MC meeting, and then behaved like a complete haughty ass during it. MC’s assessment? “He’s not relationship material.”

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Tempest, are we married to the same guy?

Mine always said he was not the “husband material”, dislikes the family routine and that I should keep him for fun only. So all the work was done by me. When I suggested divorce he said no because how could he do that as I am such a great “wife material.”
And his 15-year long-distance affair (longer than our 12 year marriage) with his split-soul is supposedly over now because his split soul deteriorated (most probably cheated on him and her husband with her multiple yonger lovers) and he does not want to follow her route. So I should just relax, forget and move forward. And as for his one-off sexual encounters all these years? Well, he was not going to get married to whores, and I understand that, right? I have to hold high regard for him in my eyes for that. So I should stop obsessing over the one-offs, they were just pastime. Because I did not tend to his sensitive soul and his needs so he had to “take care of his needs on his own”

I wonder how much more shit sandwich I need to eat before I finally take the step.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago
Reply to  Longtimechump

Longtimechump, that’s text book narcissistic personality disordered!
Cannot commit, does not stick around when you are in need, cannot be held accountable, entitled POS.
He is fucked up from craddle, if not from genes. Nor relationship (with any human) material, definitely!

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Longtimechump

LongtimeChump–how much more shit sandwich do you need to eat before you leave?

NONE. Your H is an entitled, manipulative jackass. The whole time you’ve been married he’s been screwing someone else? He’s a parasite on you and your goodwill. Get angry and get moving. How fucking dare he treat you like that–you are worthy of respect and love (which you will never get from him; ask how I know).

It is painful, it is scary, but it is also a huge RELIEF to leave someone like that (again, ask me how I know). We’ve got your back, and use the forums for specific advice or support as you need it. This is the only emotional rollercoaster where you actually terminate at UP. Hugs!

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Eew. Eew. Eew. He never deserved you. He lost you and for that he is just a gross fuckup that is the dumbest mofo on the planet.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Thank you, EX. Why do I have the feeling you and I should have drinks one day? (In a bar with no children allowed, because, well, potty language. I adore your posts and your chutzpah!)

Calmafterstorm
Calmafterstorm
7 years ago
Reply to  Crushed

God, yes. My ex seriously hates me for filing for divorce. He is actually wounded about it. I can only think because a) he was told there would be months if not years worth of pick me dancing and cake from me and the mistress and/or b) when I pulled the trigger on the divorce, whatever promises he made CFMD he suddenly had to deliver on. No evil troll wife standing in the way of their happiness any longer.

They are cowards and manipulators and honestly we are better off without their toxicity in our lives. And the fact that we still (at least in the beginning) want them with every fiber of our being tells you how very much mind fucked we have all been by these people through all the years.

rickb89
rickb89
7 years ago
Reply to  Calmafterstorm

Truth!

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Calmafterstorm

and the chump making the decision to divorce makes the cheater the victim. “He/She is sooooo unforgiving …..wa wa wa.”

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
7 years ago
Reply to  Crushed

You hit the nail on the head about him wanting to leave and blaming you. They always have to be the victim. When I found out I told X we could work it out (34 years). He wanted me to throw him out, when I didn’t he ran off the next day while I was at work. Blamed it on me. See he had to leave because of all the horrible things I said to him. I had told him he needed to dump the girl friend. Poor guy, I’m such a bitch.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
7 years ago
Reply to  newdaydawning

+1

Stephanie
Stephanie
7 years ago
Reply to  newdaydawning

Hah! Same here! I think he was frustrated that it took me so long to figure it out. Well, somebody was frustrated. May’ve been OW.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago
Reply to  Crushed

Yes! I believed mine would never have filed. Cowards and liars everyone. Someone has to the right thing and it’s not going to be your cheater or Jackie! It’s you.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago

LosingMyMind
Please leave. I can tell you that at some point you will be almost ‘grateful’ although that is not the right word, that this has been going on for SIX YEARS.
Some of us chumps, me for instance, are really good at trying to not look at reality, to not see what we don’t want to see, at trying to avoid what we know is the right choice for us.
Mine had three affairs for FOUR YEARS. I think the sheer hideous fact of this was enough that even I couldn’t spackle that. I think now, thank heavens it wasn’t less, it wasn’t a year or six months as I know enough about myself to know I might have been able to spackle that for quite a while. But even I had to face the fact that I did not have a thing to work with. It was over. Dead. Done. I have a lot to fix about myself. I’m only four months from ddays. But I feel I am absolutely on the right path.
Trust CL and chumps here. They will always steer you right and keep you on course (thanks Ian) and hold your hand while you forge a new life for yourself. Good luck. It’s not easy but it is worth it.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Maybe relieved is what we feel!

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago

Pardon me, faithful chumpy wife, but I am so consumed with hatred for Jackie I conveniently blanked out those hotel and restaurant charges.
Bitch please….I have heard some dandies come out of The ClusterFuck B Sociopath’s liar hole, but that’s one he knew better to try.
I hope you get far away from this monster. He will cheat on you again it’s just a matter of time.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Yes, did you blank out all the fucking too?! Lol

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago

No, he didn’t blank that part out???

Geode
Geode
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

No wonder she’s losing her mind. She probably can’t get her head around his ability to say such shit. ???

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago
Reply to  Geode

who would? Best not to try!

heissobroken
heissobroken
7 years ago

If only it was possible to blank out a whole person and 18 years, I would be so much farther in my recovery. LOL!

Greode
Greode
7 years ago
Reply to  heissobroken

? sobroken. Thanks for the laugh.

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  heissobroken

can they possibly be any sicker? They are just disgusting. All the while he blanked it out he had that smirk on his face for 6 years!!!! It’s hard to see the reality in the beginning but she must force herself to unload this stinking piece of shit. “Blanked it out” my ass. Blanked his wife out while balls deep in Jackie. OMG he pisses me off entitled bitch.

Arnold
Arnold
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

I have never met or read about a cheater who was not an entitled,unempathetic,lying Cluster B.
The details may vary somewhat,but what Losing describes is not much different than what many of us went through.
The amazing thing is that we still have questios,sometimes,about whether we got this right and acted correctly in divorcing.
Really,there is nothing to work with with these types.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Agree!

Supreme Chump
Supreme Chump
7 years ago

LosingMyMind, please just run to your nearest best divorce lawyer and file. Think of it as filing for a new life.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago

Jackie, it is believable. Line up your ducks and get an unbelievable settlement.

unicornomore
unicornomore
7 years ago

” he blanked it out.”

No, he didn’t blank anything out, he is a big fat fucking liar who hates consequences.

The fact that we ever believed this shit is amazing. You have proof in your hands that he dated her this year…there you go. Looking back, I spackled more shit than I can even believe, so LMM is in really good company, but that is why we are here – to tell you to cut this shit out

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Their motivated-amnesia is astounding!

Mine couldn’t remember if he made gradwhore climax or not during oral sex. I said, “You were down there, weren’t you? How could you miss it?” It’s comical now, but what a mindfuck at the time.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

+1
douche said “I think she did.” Huh?

I asked, “couldn’t you tell?” She’s 30 and lives at home with her daddy, I seriously doubt she did — it was all fake to get our money.” (FF two years and in the deposition he reveals he’s paid $125,000 for her living expenses — booyah! I called it)

Him: “well, she seemed to like it.”

Fucker!!!!!!!!!!

Also, though, shows how sick I was that I even asked. That I even gave him one more second of my precious life. I don’t now. Completely NC. He lost me. His loss. My gain.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago

I’ve mentioned this before, but it bears repeating. In my 20s my girlfriend cheated on me. That girl is one of the reasons I went into my marriage with a clearly stated one-and-done policy. That same girl once told me she only let a guy go down on her not fuck her, and I asked her if she came. So any angry rants I may have come from a place of deep chumpiness and subsequent introspection

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

We all get the anger, Ian. Frankly, just thinking about MatchGirl’s last day shopping with you puts me from 0-60 on the anger scale in a nanosecond. Someone needs to invent a stronger word than “incredulous.”

And a second bout of infidelity is bound to churn up an emotional volcano. I just hope you can get legally free of MG soon to close the wound. The scar, I’m afraid, is probably lifelong.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Thanks, Tempest.

I really do feel better overall. I am still nowhere near getting the divorce wrapped up, but I know without a doubt it’s because she is the worst. Somebody said it the other day: I wake up and some days she’s not the first thing on my mind. Thanks for your support.

chumpitychumpchump
chumpitychumpchump
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Oh Tempest, I hate that you had to ask and know about all the gory details. Im sure you hated that image in your head at the time, maybe not now, but I am glad I was spared the gory details for the most part. Fuckers

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago

ChumpityCC–I have often wondered at my desire, nay, need to know details of my X’s sexual escapades. For one, nothing he told me could have been worse than the mindmovies in my imagination (the most horrifying stage after D-day). Knowing some details also moved the infidelity from the abstract (“an affair 8 years ago”) to the concrete, in all its ugliness, and allowed me to divorce him without regret.

Lastly, the deception of infidelity is a power play like no other. Cheaters withhold love, respect, information from the chump to give themselves ascendancy. Finding out details, even with trickle truth, tips the balance of power more in favor of the chump. It gives us the advantage of saying, “I now know what you did. I now know what you are.” and the inference the cheater can draw is “I am morally superior to you because I did not harm you the same way.” That is why I support people seeking as much information as they need after D-day; some of us need it (though others find it harmful, and I respect that. The sexual details, and the details of intimacy that SphinxMoth details in a post below this are a LOT to digest).

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

She faked it. She’s only in it for the money.

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Word. We believed this horrid crap flowing from liar holes too. Please please please release yourself from this agony. You must save yourself.
“Big fat fucking liar” succinctly sums up his deluded cunt face ass. Yeah fuck him he makes me furious.

Arnold
Arnold
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

You are not allowed to say cunt here. Dick,prick,penishead,yes. But not count for some reason. Male genitalia only,per the rules. Something to do with patriarchy and oppression,as I recall.

Geode
Geode
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

OMG Ex! The whole floor can hear me ?

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  Geode

Bwa ha ha ha. ??

AsIf
AsIf
7 years ago

I know you will not follow ChumpLady’s advice to leave. Here is How I know you will stay. 1. He cheated on you for six years – You Stayed and are having sex with him. 2. You believe he hates Jackie – – why would he hate Jackie? He was with her for six years and but for you finding out he would still be with her. He only says he hates Jackie because you hate Jackie – if he hates Jackie then why a Six Year Affair- he doesn’t hate her- he hates that he was caught. 3. “Lets keep this in perspective” – your perspective was that the debits were last year not this year- thus everything is okay and lets have sex. 4. Six year affair-six months out, you believe everything he says or want to believe everything he says, and you are awarding him with sex. 5. You don’t believe that you were disrespected, deceived, manipulated, for more than six years- and even if you do believe it- these were not dealbreakers for you- a Six Year affair was not a dealbreaker for you- Six Years of lies was not a dealbreaker to you, Six Years of putting your health at risk was not a dealbreaker to you. 6. No matter what anyone says here you will make excuses as to why you will stay – you have drinked the koolaid – and many do. 7. You did not kick him out- even when he told you to. 8. Six year affair and you Stayed. This is how I know you will Stay no matter what we say. But know this- he is a liar, coward, and a cheat- he will not leave, there is no reason for him to leave, he will not file for divorce, and he is thinking about Jackie whether he loves her or hates her- how could he not- he had a Six year affair with her at expensive hotels and expensive restaurants – and he loves himself more than you and more than her. If the Six Year Affair was not enough of a reason for you to leave – the slip up during sex is a minor slip up that sadly you will get over- if you have not already. Sadly you have convinced yourself that staying is be%er than leaving- sadly you made this decision six months ago. Sadly you will keep drinking the koolaid.

hellno
hellno
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

Asif, Thank God for someone willing to say it like it is, sometimes the best thing you can do for a chump in this degree of denial is grab them by the scruff of the neck, and yank them out of that deep river of denial to safety.
“He had told me that she paid for all the hotels and they never went out. He was “shocked” by the charges and said he honestly didn’t remember them. There were a lot of expensive meals and hotels. Tried to tell me they were years ago, but dates were last November, December and this year”
. Claims that’s how much he hated her, he blanked it out.”

There are liars, there are pathological liars, and then there’s this ^^^^

“I figure let’s keep this in perspective.” The fact that she’s not standing over his lifeless body is perspective enough
” We worked it out by 2 a.m. last night” The only thing they need to work out, is, will he leave under his own steam , or with her foot up his ass to help him along.

” and were having sex “. At this point I had to stop and pick pieces of flesh of my laptop because my head exploded.

when he says, “This feels so good let’s do this all day Ja…” That asshole didn’t make a mistake, that’s an on-purpose. And if he can be that cruel, and she can still be that blind , I’m not sure that there’s much even CL can do, Still I hope she keeps coming and I really really hope she takes CL’s wise advice ASAP, because that hubby sounds pathological

BetrayedNoMore
BetrayedNoMore
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

You have permission to get angry. No, really; seriously, righteously, rain-hell-fire and brimstone ANGRY.

How dare he enter into another sexual/emotional/long-term relationship outside of your marriage? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he put your life in danger? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he devote your finances on his whore? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being? How dare he lie to you? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he continually test the limits of your boundaries? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he gaslight you – fuck with your reality – to where you can’t tell right from wrong? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he violate YOU?

WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING??!!

QueenMother
QueenMother
7 years ago
Reply to  BetrayedNoMore

Only please be careful with the rage. I do not know what the balance is! We should feel the anger, yes. But I am now having lots of trouble with the effects of rage on my health. Mine has damaged my liver. Other people get high blood pressure.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago
Reply to  QueenMother

RAGE is a completely normal response to such injustice and betrayal. Let it out! Keep it in and it will eat you alive.
Of course, the wise approach to anger is to guide it towards something constructive: let that rage power you to get an unbelievable settlement, let that rage power you to one of your life goals: run a marathon, get a diploma.
I know it’s easy to talk about it after the fact, but rage IS and CAN be a very good thing. And its normal!

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
7 years ago
Reply to  Enraged

Or you could be like me, who hasn’t got angry. Not really. It still freaks me out to this day (1 year+ post DDay). Rage and anger is totally normal in this situation. I feel like my response isn’t normal. Anger is about getting your power back, about asserting your boundaries. It’s a good thing. Me, on the other hand, DDay and the run up to it has weakened me. I tone down my lawyer’s angry language in their letters and they tell me not to be so soft. Honestly, you don’t want to be like me. I’m pretty much inviting my cheater to continue to walk all over me.

Embrace the rage.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago

Off the crazy train, you are still dancing. You still want to be liked. You still hope.
That’s why you have not reached anger.
Get MAD, woman! So you can move on with your life.
I’m sending you hugs. And trust that you are the utmost normal human being. Look at you: you got Off the crazy train 🙂

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago

Otct, you are still waiting, but your righteous anger will come when you allow that. Think on your worth and how it was trampled. That wasn’t because you were unworthy, but because someone used you badly. Some chumps need a lot of time to process their injury. Some get there much more quickly. And some have to reach all the way down to their toenails to drag up the courage to see their pain. It’s a way to protect themselves, but not always best for their future. Examine just how pissed off you will allow yourself to be, and give that a try.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  QueenMother

It’s temporary, and probably a necessary phase towards complete disengagement from the cheater. I, too, had higher blood pressure both before & after D-day. Had my physical the other day–back to 105/60 (I’m two years out from D-day, 1.5 years from divorce).

Forgive yourself for the anger; it will dissipate with time (or become more intellectual–“How dare he/she have treated me like that!” but without the emotional detonation).

JeepTess
JeepTess
7 years ago
Reply to  BetrayedNoMore

Someone that doesn’t deserve someone as awesome as us in their lives 😀

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  BetrayedNoMore

Blessed are those who are furious with the injustice of abuse

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

+1!!!!! The anger is what saved me and what has kept me no contact. No reminiscing about any bullshit “good times”…just have to remember the blatant disrespect and it keeps me moving up and on towards meh.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

Why so harsh, Asif? Many of us have been there, done that. But eventually we wised up, and got out.

The whole goal of CL is to help people wise up sooner, take the leap to a better life. Information and support, not telling people they’ll never change, won’t ever choose differently than they have in the past.

It’s the cheater narcissists who don’t change. Chumps definitely can: Chump Nation is the proof!

AsIf
AsIf
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Better to get the 2×4s early on KarenE instead of placating and wasting 6 more months or 6 more years. Reality is that many linger on for years, “complaining” of the wrongs done to us, smoking the hopium pipe, thinking we are so special and different that he will come around – and maybe he does and maybe he doesn’t- and many of us stay waiting for him to change. Many of us take months and years before we follow the advice of CL and CN- many when CL tells them to leave, when CN tells them to leave – they say they will leave, they say they are contacting the lawyer, they say that they are getting a divorce- but at the end of the day they don’t because they want to stay and wait for him to change. But why wait for him to change-the sooner we determine the reasons we are staying the sooner we can accept that we need to change – we need to recognize that this liar, user, and coward is not worth our time-until we change our perception- until LosingMyMind accepts that she must change- she is staying-its not harsh- its the truth-its LosingMyMind’s present truth. But maybe by bringing it to light LosingMyMind will change sooner rather than later and follow CL’s and CN’s advice and leave, but until then she is staying like so many have and will.

QueenMother
QueenMother
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

Yes, Asif, your post was very thought-provoking, and I thought actually kind. You were telling this poor soul the truth. It got me to thinking: I knew I should leave/kick his ass out, what made it finally possible? First thought, like quitting smoking, it took several times. But there was more —

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

I could not fault her for smoking hopium. That would make me a hypocrite. I kept beating a dead horse relationship for years. Only when I found CL did I understand I had a sociopath on my hands. I know she is fragile in her current state. So weren’t we all-it is so much easier to stay put (right or wrong) than to turn willingly headlong into the worst pain you will likely feel. Then the vacillating back and forth blah blah blah. That any of us made it thru the initial early days is a miracle. Easy for me to say when I’m meh to get the fuck out NOW. Not easy when you stand up, turn around, and face agony. Or you stay and “blank it out”. All I know is Tracy Schorn was my savior. And Cock Slobber too for keeping him busy while I grieved. I’m grateful at the very least she found CL and CN. It’s a step of clarity in a tsunami of mindfuck.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Ex.

Yes yes yes. Nailed it perfectly.

My 17 year old said I was having my own 27 Hours moment after that movie. (Spoiler alert!!)

I had the choice – stay trapped under the boulder and die or cut off my own arm with a rusty penknife. Both not appealing.

I’ve just started hacking off my own arm.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

I’m over here with the rusty blade hacking away too. It was lonely but now I can see others in other canyons also hacking away, bleeding, crying, screaming . . . but still alive. hurts like a mofo but I”m not dead yet and I’m halfway through the bone, which is the hardest part. The more I cut, though, the sharper the blade seems to get.

And I’m starting to think about life without that arm and all the things I can do with one arm if I make it out of here. The trick is to not let fear stop me from cutting my arm off so I can get out of this canyon — must cut even when I don’t want to. Even when I’m tired. Just one little hack and then I can sleep and start again when I wake. Keep going, keep cutting. I’ve got this. I don’t want to die, I don’t want to die, I don’t want to die. . . . Keep cutting.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago

It is the perfect analogy and he is very perceptive (I would say he gets it from me but I am a chump of epic proportions).

When he said that I was deciding to file or not sitting at our kitchen table.

I filed first thing the next morning.

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

What you all need to know is that arm you are cutting off is an inoperative third arm that in fact was strangling your spirit. A dummy arm you won’t need. You’re going to walk away whole once it is detached. Hugs to you all, still suffering to claw your way free. You are mighty!

champchump
champchump
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Perfect analogy. Your 17-year-old is quite perceptive. I personally have made it through the bone and am working on that last little bit of tendon and flesh.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

Brilliant

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

I can sense your frustration. It’s hard to watch people suffer but everyone has their own speed. Their own story.
I found this harsh. I judge myself too harshly as it is. We chumps need reality but not blame and judgement. We already have too much of that.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Above comment for ASLF !

AsIf
AsIf
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Thanks for your comment Capricorn. Yes each person has their own speed – and it is frustrating – especially when from the outside looking in you can see the writing on the wall and you feel that persons pain and hopelessness and you want to shake them to wake up. Its like watching a horror movie and yelling at the screen “No don’t open the door – he is behind the door- run- get out of the house” and you know exactly how it is going to end.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

ASLF
That’s exactly it. You are right. I’m still trying to get out and just realising how stupid I was and how much I spackled. I think I’m still surprised at how hard it has been for me to accept that this man who I loved and trusted for 22 years didn’t love me at all and lived a double life very easily indeed thank you very much. So emotionally I am still a bit stuck even if I am now thinking straight.
You guys saved me !!

AsIf
AsIf
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Capricorn- the heart tells us one thing, but the brain knows better. As I tell my friends- if I were to give a friend advice I would tell her to leave, I would tell her he is an asshole, I would tell her don’t waste another tear on that asshole, that she deserves so much better, but its easier to give advice than to take your own advice because the heart says otherwise- and many of us want to follow the heart- sad but true.

RobinLee
RobinLee
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

I posted at the bottom of the page, but will post here too. Losingmymind, please get the police to document this and file what ever charges you need to file.

Please be safe and stay in a shelter if you have to do that.

Get a good lawyer! The shelter people may be able to help with some names.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

Losing, please take pictures of the scratches and report him.

Also, I’d recommend you read Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft, there are great strategies in there as your X might keep escalading!

Please be safe!

LosingMyMind
LosingMyMind
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

He just clawed my face and told me to get the duck out. And would not give me the car keys
I was reading chump advice and asked him did you say lies about me too
So I am sitting on the street. The last thing he said was I was a chump and go

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  LosingMyMind

LosingMyMind–call the police. What he just did is abuse, and you will be best served if it goes on official record. Furthermore, if you don’t have your funds, clothes, car keys, etc., you can’t get far. Ask the police about getting into a domestic abuse shelter for the night.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Don’t mess around, Losing. Call the police. Be safe.

QueenMother
QueenMother
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

Asif and Capricorn — the above is why I am trying to figure out how to give advice to the heart (of a newly-minted chump), advice that the heart will listen to.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

So frustrating.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago
Reply to  AsIf

I completely disagree. But see your point. I’d like to suggest that she’s writing CL about her cheater and not about the slip up.

She is beginning to realize he has taken so much from her and she’s had enough. It is dawning on LosingMyMind that she is beginning to lose hers because of all the lies and the six years of being taken advantage of and mistreated.

Betrayal is a difficult thing to face. Divorce is a scary choice especially when you realize how much of your self respect you’ve lost because you were sure he was invested in you and the marriage only to be faced with the truth that he is not and never will be.

Loyalty and hope are hard to overcome and kill. Cheaters work long and hard to accomplish it. Domitian takes many years and many lies to break a chump.

Enraged
Enraged
7 years ago

These letters we read here at CL are only the tip of the iceberg.
These letters are written by chumps who still don’t get it. Or they would ask for a kick ass lawyer.
My biggest regret is that the law does not punish infidelity. Society is not, we are on a downward path of “don’t judge”. Besides the cheated spouse, those kids are the biggest loosers of all time. But hey, don’t judge!

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago

Never
I agree she knows what she should do, she can feel it but up until now the fear of leaving has been bigger than she has allowed her needs to be.
I’m betting she has had a crappy childhood with at least one narc in it.
She is beginning to sense that there may be a different way for her. Part of coming here is being open to others gently knocking some sense into you because they understand. They don’t judge, they don’t blame, they just share their experience so that you begin to see. And then you see that others did it and left and thrived and that thimble full of courage turns into an eggcup turns into a cup turns into a bowl turns into a fucking swimming pool of courage so that you finally do something for yourself.

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

That’s right. The rage and courage and feedback all magnify each other. This is your chance to say NOT ANYMORE, MOTHERFUCKER.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Me to a T, Capricorn!

New Me
New Me
7 years ago

It took me 9 years of his affair to finally leave and I did everything Asif said. I kept thinking it was my fault. I also kept coming back to CL and finally had enough and pulled up my big boy panties and got the fuck out!

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Sometimes the chorus can influence the key singer.

LosingMyMind–AGENCY. It’s what you haven’t had, but what you’re seeking by writing to CL. Trust me—you don’t want to have endured 6 years of an affair, wreckonciliation, and then he leaves you, do you? Once you start issuing consequences, even if it is nothing more than being colder to him, he will seek his prime attention from the satellite (Jackie).

Pull up your pride, you know your battle plan. Leave his sorry ass.

AsIf
AsIf
7 years ago

Good point neverwouldhaveimagined- maybe LosingMyMind is just now realizing that its time to leave.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago

*Sometimes it takes

Anita
Anita
7 years ago

Let Jackie and this whore mongering loser have each other. They certainly belong together. You can do better, if that’s what you want. Do not continue to “reconcile” with this lying creep.

ZHUCHI
ZHUCHI
7 years ago

You stay and you will be selling your soul. It will be a miserable, paranoid and anxious existence. A non-existence. A slow suicide.

Then one day you won’t recognise yourself anymore. You will not remember the last time you laughed and smiled freely and without a care. You will have become so used to that tight knot in your stomach you can’t remember what it feels like to be truly relaxed. You will realise you are only half living – that it has become normal for you to drive around, walk around, shop, eat and live in a life that is anxiety provoking, triggering and sepia toned. Your senses will be dulled, things that used to bring you joy just don’t anymore and you live entirely in your head. Worrying. Chronic low-grade depression. Sometimes you may even consider suicide.

Often you will find yourself in this horrible conflicted state of both loving and hating your H as he stands before you, but you won’t be quite sure anymore what it is you love, if it is in fact love, because it feels more like being bound to him by fear and nostalgia for what you thought you had. You will wait, and wait and wait to feel good again. But it won’t come. Occasionally, as you fade in to the shadows of who you once were, you will find your starving heart and soul are thrown enough of a bone from him that you feel grateful for the little bit of marrow in there. GRATEFUL that he acknowledged you somehow.

ON the surface, and to others it will all seem ok, you will MAKE it seem ok because you are bound by hope and commitment, but 1000000 intangible little things you don’t understand yourself will be telling you something is off, the world isn’t safe anymore, that you are living with your assassin and it is only a matter of time before he decides to pull the trigger.

Because he will, because he can, because he doesn’t care. He really doesn’t care about you one iota. People who care don’t do this to people they care about. It is a simple fact but one that is soooooo very hard to digest. But this person doesn’t love you, he’s in contempt of you and everything you describe shows that.

It won’t get better. It can’t get better. How can it? Seriously?

I speak from the heart and I speak from experience. We ALL do here. We’re not angry bitter misanthropes who just got the shitty end of the stick compared to all the successful reconcilers out there. We are the ones who tried reconciliation with everything our heart and souls had, and we learned the hard way that the truth, the reality is what sits in the archives of this blog. There is NO SUCH THING as reconciliation. Not without agreeing to sell your soul permanently to the devil.

Please leave. Please, please leave. It WILL be hard but not as hard as the alternative because leaving has a pain that is FINITE. Staying has a pain that is INFINITE.

We are all here for you. But please, please, please leave. x

Arnold
Arnold
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Very good description of what it is like living with a NPD,even without the infidelity. The egregious,obvious abuse is more apparent. The day in,day out ambient stuff is relentless yet more subtle.
This shot will send one to an early grave.

Angie
Angie
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Truth, truth, beautiful truth!

Jewelsie
Jewelsie
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

I copied this also. It’s just beautiful.

I lived it and you put into words why I’m okay now and don’t wish for anything different.

Thank you.

Jennifer
Jennifer
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Thank you for this!

Marisa
Marisa
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Holy god! So this to the tee!!

KB22
KB22
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Excellent post!

louisvilleflower
louisvilleflower
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Beautifully said.
Painfully accurate.

SphinxMoth
SphinxMoth
7 years ago

This is an eloquent and heart wrenching comment. So honest and raw, it hurts.

Something I want to share very quickly.

I was contacted by on of my XHs OW, by email. She told me a lot of things. It was a 30 some odd page “history” of everything she and my husband had done, the things that she knew, the conversations that she’d had—it made my skin crawl with how intimate she was entwined in my life without my knowledge.

The SEX doesn’t matter, if you’re thinking about the act. The consequences of sex, perhaps an STD, yes. But the sex itself? I don’t care. We each have had lovers in the past. No one is as pure as the driven snow here.

What got under my skin was the INTIMACY. The daily minor details that she shared with him, the things he told her, the things in MY LIFE that she knew.

And then she said something that galvanized my spine to the point that I will never, ever, EVER allow this man or any other take advantage of me again…

“If you think that you’ve won because he left me and he’s back with you, you’re wrong. I won. You have to sit with him in the house and know what he did. You have to have sex with him and know that he had sex with me for 2 years, saying the same things to me that he says to you. He told me that he had sex with you, and it made him sick to his stomach. He told me that the only reason he stays is because he is waiting for your daughter to turn 18 and for me to wait for him. You are actually doing me a favor by taking him back, and I can go ahead and find someone that I don’t have to look at and know what they did to me and I still let them stay with me.”

She was laughing at me. And then I looked around…other people, as “supportive” as they may have seemed, were also judging and smirking behind their backs…how stupid SphinxMoth is, how miserable of a human being and zero self esteem she must have to take that bastard back after he humiliated her so completely.

They laugh at us for reconciliation. All of them. The OW/OM, their apologists, and the Cheaters. I will NOT be laughed at for being a kind, loving, generous and faithful person. If I have to be alone, then fine. But I will not be taunted and humiliated for being GOOD.

To the OP—I am actually seeing the “core” of your question (i’m trained that way. medical questions are set up like yours). What you’re actually asking is permission to keep trying to forgive this man.

Please don’t. Your whole letter is an exercise in untangling the Skein of Fuckupedness. You’re grasping onto any crumb he may throw to you.

You “figured it out” by midnight and then had sex? I’m sorry….I’m not going to beat you up here, but 4-5 hours of “discussion” of a six year affair and thousands of dollars’ worth of charges…doesn’t “work it out”. That takes…..YEARS. And a therapist. And a separation.

Sex is not love. Believe me, I am guiltier than most of this misconception. You’re using physical closeness and mixing it up with him being intimate with you. He’s not. He’s subduing you. He knows that is your hot button.

Please leave.

kngb33
kngb33
6 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Sorry just recently started delving into these posts and comments, yours struck a nerve with me for a few reasons.

1. I’m envious you got a full confession from someone, I literally spent thousands of dollars on two different PIs getting proof of what I KNEW was going on. My ex would literally have her men park their car at a public place (store/dept store/etc) she would then drive to them pick them up (with my baby present) they would lay down in the of the car until they were safely tucked away in her garage. I’ve two seperate guys tell me this story (and they dont know each other). It took forever to finally get some of the truth..I still dont have it all. So i’m super envious of having someone come clean.

2. The intimacy these people have in our lives is also what struck me profoundly. It’s a major kick in the nuts to hear them reveal how much they know about you isnt it? I had to hear several guys tell me that my baby would call them daddy, which my ex would then laugh about it. I had to hang up on these guys (they finally came clean after suprise suprise she dumped them too) when they told me that.

I must have read a thousand comments today, so sorry for bringing this post back from the dead with my new comment, but felt compelled to reply and share a little.

Lyn
Lyn
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

My daughter-in-law met the OW once when she was trailing along with my husband and was immediately struck with how familiar she seemed to be with our family. She talked like she was an integral part of our kids’ lives. My DIL asked my son if this was true and he told her, “No, OW was never really around.” My DIL told me this after our divorce was final. I understand what you mean about the emotional intimacy you were craving being given to someone else. It sucks.

Martha
Martha
7 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Yes, the emotional intimacy. For our entire marriage (20 years) I just wanted to spend time with my husband. He was always “working.” Always had time for the ho-workers and getting emotionally intimate with them. But didn’t have time for me. He broke me down day after day until I gave up the last few years and stopped bothering him for his time. And he’s convinced himself that it’s “a part of his DNA” that he needs to have all these “healthy female friends.” I don’t know of ANY women who are okay with this, but for some reason I needed to be okay with it and I wasn’t supposed to be jealous of all the time he spent “working” and not jealous of his “friends.” It’s NOT normal. No one will ever treat me like this again!

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Oh, SphinxMoth–I can’t breathe after your post. That is exactly the contempt that our Xs and OW/OMs have for us. I always knew it, but that letter from your OW brings the point home with startling clarity and detail. I am so sorry you suffered that pain, but glad it was the impetus to escape the marriage and not look back.

Every time I start to feel a little soft, and wonder if my X was really that bad, I remember that when gradwhore issued her ultimatum, and my then-husband called me for a divorce by phone (after 16 years & 2 kids together), he let.her.stay.in.the.room to hear the conversation. I hate him with every fiber of my being for that.

Cheaters are not content to merely betray us; they want to gut us, too. Thank heavens we have each other to prevent that.

SphinxMoth
SphinxMoth
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Tempest I just re-read your reply.

He let her stay in the room? That really just knocked me back. That’s….I don’t know a word for that. I can only say I am so sorry he did that, and that he made sure you knew about it.

{{{Tempest}}} Can I hate him for you as well? My reaction here is a bit visceral. I am frowning and thinking dark thoughts….the cruelty of some is simply gratuitous.

That’s the mind boggling part of it, that there was no reason you should even have known. The utter disrespect and contempt. Yes, your words are so precise. Although I thoroughly enjoy reading your responses here, I hate what’s brought us together.

I’m glad you’re on the other side of that marriage.

I was thinking about a passage that I’d read years ago from one of my favorite series (don’t laugh!)–Dune. Where Paul Atreides has passed the test of the pain box, and the Reverend Mother Gaius says,

“You’ve heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There’s an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, feigning death, that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind.”

My point here being–that I felt for a long time that I had simply “chewed off my leg” to escape the trap that was my marriage. I didn’t care that the trapper (my ex) was free to go on to harm others. Now, I feel differently.

That’s in large part due to CL and CN. I read here every single day. I don’t post a lot, but I read. I have referred so, so many others to this site. I have taken the advice here and internalized it. It’s made me strong. Hopefully, anything I’ve said to anyone, has helped in a small way. Maybe made someone less afraid or whatever.

In the end, maybe this site can help remove some of those threats to our kind, if that makes sense? That’s a human thing, that we help each other recognize and remove threats to our safety and well being. Does that make sense?

All done waxing philosophical. 🙂

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

P.P.S. Count me in on the cheater-extermination program. All I can picture is Elmer Fudd in his plaid cap with a gun, “Be vewy quiet. We’we hunting cheatews.”

Annie Get Your Guns
Annie Get Your Guns
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Don’t forget, you have one very pissed off sharpshooter on TeamChump. I will add the hitch to my vehicle so we can tow the wood chipper.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Oh, and Happy Birthday tomorrow, Sphinx Moth! I will raise a glass of bubbly in your honor!

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

SphinxMoth–your posts are always helpful, and what you revealed today is a truth that anyone who is fence sitting needs to know–our cheaters and their APs had ultimate contempt for us. Their loyalty to us was feigned, and used as a subterfuge to further disembowel us. Even 2 years out, your post helped me solidify what I knew all along–cheaters are irredeemable, conscienceless, and predatory to their core. Thank you for sharing it, as I’m sure it must have been painful to relive that letter.

As for Hannibal telling me gradwhore was in the room? Hell, no–he attempted to reconcile with lies & more lies, but thankfully I carried 5 key Chumplady posts around with me 24/7 (including the Naugahyde Remorse post) to battle his continued gaslighting.

In fact, Hannibal never admitted that he had taken gradwhore to Mexico; a friend told me 2 days before my divorce was final. I then thought back to the odd flatness of his voice 8 years prior when he had asked for the divorce and put 2 and 2 together. The evening of the divorce was the last night I spoke to him, and I asked him if she had been in the room that day, and to “tell me the truth!” Long pause and then, “No.” Some of my last words to him were “MF asshole, POS! I hate you! Why can’t you just die?” And I meant them. If I ever get sentimental about my marriage, all I need to do is remember that he let her stay in the room and voila! No more sentimentality.

Arnold
Arnold
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

My first XW delighted in describing the physique of one of her A Ps to me. These folks are monsters.

SphinxMoth
SphinxMoth
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Thank you Tempest and CL…and all. It took a long time not to believe her. Seriously. I’ve written only a short blurb or two about my upbringing, where the people who were SUPPOSED to love me, didn’t. Or wouldn’t. Or Couldn’t.

That left me wide open for his betrayal, and her attack. I believed for a long time that she was right. That I was just pathetic and needy and as pathological as she said.

And honestly, I DID do her a favor by taking him back. She got to toddle off while I dealt with that fuckwit and the damage he caused our family. I should have booted him the microsecond I found out. I should NEVER have let the situation simmer until I had the pleasure (gag) of receiving a letter like the one I got from this OW.

I did, however, send her a Thank You. I told her that she did something for me that no one, not even Cheater could do—she cleared my mind of any doubt that I was doing the right thing by my family in divorcing that asshole.

Thank you for the kind words. Some days are worse than others, even at Meh. Tomorrow is my birthday. I just want to get through the day without some weird email from him telling me how he’s hoping I have a great day. Stupid, but that actually still hurts. He ruined every other birthday for me when we were married.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

P.P.P.S. Block his number! You don’t need his birthday wishes. Fuck him.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Sphinx.

You are amazing. Such piercing honesty to share that here. For me knowing the details of the sex he had with his 3 others was bad. The intimacy worse yes, cuddling on sofa watching tv, cooking together – the worst- just holding hands with them as they wandered around. It is a very special pain that infidelity inflicts. I had never felt anything like it.
I needed to hear all the details though (I had spreadsheets and pages of notes) to give me enough pain to power through to filing for divorce.
Words fail me to describe what these people put you through.
It’s a stark reminder of the amount of cruelty these people can and do inflict on people who loved them.
I hope you have a wonderful and lovely birthday

SphinxMoth
SphinxMoth
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

You can do it, Capricorn. It’s so much better on your own, knowing your own reality. I have a lot of support that crazy enough, doesn’t come from blood relatives. Friendship, loyalty and love come from all sorts of people, if you recognize it and let it in.

I let him and the affairs taint everything. I saw the entire world through that lens, that everyone is dishonest and turned my head from any possible good. That gave them power. Power that they don’t deserve and should never have.

The intimacy issue is something you really need to not let get out of control. The information that the OW gave to me still comes back when I dwell too long on an idea, but it helped that I cleansed my surroundings of anything that reminded me directly.

Oh, and asking Fuckwit anything? Don’t do it. Just don’t. I learned the hard way. They love the thrill of holding that information over your head. They know how much you want to know. It’s exciting to them. Sometimes to lie and sometimes to tell the truth. And guess what. You will never, ever know which one you’re getting. Stay away from asking details if you can resist. For your own mental health.

Thank you for the birthday wishes. Stay strong, Cap. Stick with CN. You’ll get there.

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

I never met the OW, but she came to my secure undisclosed location after I left (and she moved into my house and my life). She came with the ex to break in and steal my stuff. Who leaked where I was I will never know. And I was home, so they didn’t have a chance of breaking in, but I busted the ex while he tried.

Who does that? People with no character who are under the spell of sparkly narcs. I can only hope she saw hers coming when he got bored not so long later.

untangle
untangle
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

SphinxMoth, I received a similar email from OW, who also happened to be my good friend. It left me crushed and the intimacy bothered me the most.

CL, thank you for putting into words what I’ve been trying hard to tell myself and believe.. “Her disgust at you is disgust at herself. Total projection. Only difference is, she deserves what she got because she KNEW. She went in to the relationship knowing together they were cheating on innocents.”

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
7 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Sphinx. So much pain and so much truth in your post. Makes me want to cry. We will not be taunted and humiliated for being good. I’m not going to change the fact that I care about people, I’m just changing who I care about.

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

This was my life. A slow suicide. All of this perfectly describes the hell of an abuser. This is why I love CL. My case wasn’t special. My pain wasn’t unique. I learned the ClusterFuck B Sociopath was not redeemable. This is a great post because LosingMyMind will read it and see herself in the words. She will see that there is hope for her sanity if she can muster the courage and strength to save herself.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Zhuchi

I have copied this. So very awesomely true.

Chumpomatic
Chumpomatic
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Damn!! ZHUCHI nailed it perfectly.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Yes. Perfect. Living with your assassin. Exactly.

JeepTess
JeepTess
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Wow ZHUCHI, you nailed it perfectly. Eloquently and completely, exactly this. Thank you.

…I am so glad to be out of that living hell.

Roman A. Clay
Roman A. Clay
7 years ago
Reply to  ZHUCHI

Omg. This.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
7 years ago

LosingMyMind, please listen to CL. The fact that you wrote a letter seeking a second opinion about this joker shows that you are not thinking clearly. I am not being judgy here; I just recognize the problem having done the same thing in in my own marriage.

Get yourself to a lawyer.

You deserve better than this person. You are worth more than this person. You will have a happier life without this person.

And, if he complains again about “blanking out,” tell him to go see a neurologist. He’s either a liar or a liar suffering from a brain tumor.

louisvilleflower
louisvilleflower
7 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Ha! At one point I wondered if my STBX had a brain tumor, or a stroke. Because I couldn’t/wouldn’t wrap my head around the fact that he could be so awful all on his own. There had to be a reason.
And of course there is: he sucks.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
7 years ago

I hate to admit it to you all, but deep inside, after nearly 24 months since Dday #1, I STILL think there is something “organic” going on with douche: my latest “theory” is that he has early-onset dementia that was exacerbated by extreme stress, bad character, low self esteem, my success, his jealousy, drug use. . . . bla bla bla

But, really, “who cares?!” He was a serial cheater, he got caught by our kids, he lied and lied and lied, he devalued and abandoned all of us, then blamed us, gaslit, raged at us. It all arrives at the same conclusion: HE SUCKS

I snap my wrist every time I have “untangling the skein” thoughts. That track is worn smooth in my brain but leads only to HE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tell myself: “Self, do not waste another second of your precious life on this.” Then I try to go on.

louisvilleflower
louisvilleflower
7 years ago

Yes. It doesn’t matter why they do it, but that they do it.
I let go of asking why.
Everyone should.

Calmafterstorm
Calmafterstorm
7 years ago

Ah so did I! I really thought he had an adverse reaction in surgery a mini stroke …. surely he isn’t that much of a soulless, selfish hollow man? The answer of course was yes, yes he is.

Chump Mama
Chump Mama
7 years ago
Reply to  Calmafterstorm

Me too!! He acted like he couldn’t remember any details. He figured he must have blocked them because he was in such misery for those NINE years of his affair. Poor baby!

And one incident that I almost forgot was before I knew about his cheating. He is an alcoholic and I found a receipt for wine. When I asked him about it, he claimed that he must have bought a bottle of wine and drank it but blacked out and thus didn’t even recall doing it. I was so naive (and so inexperienced with alcohol) that I actually believed him. He purchased a breathalizer machine to make sure he didn’t so that again, accidently, and then drive. Just typing this makes me feel like a complete idiot. All the lies I believed for so many years! I just couldn’t believe anyone could lie like that.

I don’t know if any of you remember the old show Knots Landing. One of my favorite episodes has a monologue by Karen where she said something like this: “I don’t want to see the world through rose colored glasses. I want the world TO BE rose colored.” That line stuck with me all these years, and I think it’s because that is who I am too. It breaks my heart that there is evil in this world, and that so many of us actually lived with the evil sleeping next to us.

Khris
Khris
7 years ago
Reply to  Calmafterstorm

Haha, add me to that list. I always said that there had to be something to trigger this because this wasn’t the person I married!

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
7 years ago

The holidays are coming…..
Put a bow on your cheater with a tag reading “To Jackie….”
Then give yourself the gift of a new life free of narccicists, gaslighting, lies and that constant unsettling feeling.

nomoreskankboy
nomoreskankboy
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

Love this!!!! Yep, put a tight, very tight bow around his neck and drop kick his ass out! Ohhhhh, to be a fly on the wall!

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  nomoreskankboy

His neck? That’s not where the tight, very tight bow goes.

nomoreskankboy
nomoreskankboy
7 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

Survivor, I’m glad you are on MY side….holy shit, I love the way you think!

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  nomoreskankboy

I’m sorry, was that the wrong thing to say? If I’d had a chance of where to tie the bow, I’d choose my ex’s favorite spot. Out of respect for his choices and all.

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

*choice*

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
7 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

LMFAO

JeepTess
JeepTess
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

Love this AllOutofKibble! 😀

…satan’s tag would have had to have been the size of a legal pad to hold all the ow’s names 🙂 LMAO! Love the visual!

louisvilleflower
louisvilleflower
7 years ago

I can tell you what happens if you don’t leave, because I didn’t kick him out for good for 3 years.

There might be some lame apology. A gift or flowers. But every time he touches you, you will remember that syllable, or the dinners, or the hotels. Because CL is right – it isn’t over. That affair may have gone deeper underground or he may be just lining up the next one. And you know that. It is the real reason you wrote your letter – not because of the utterance of a syllable.
Trust your gut. Even though it sucks, THIS IS WHO HE IS. The things he has admitted to are the tip of a huge, disgusting iceberg.
Every Chump has to find their own way. Let the truth telling of Chump Lady and the collective experiences of Chump Nation help you.

hellno
hellno
7 years ago

^^^^^^ This

Anita
Anita
7 years ago

The truth of the matter, Losing, is that once someone cheats on you The Damage is Done. It can never be undone, made right, forgotten, etc. Your marriage will never be better, renewed, happier, whatever else those who promote reconciliation tell you. Never.

Make your new motto One and Done. That’s how many times anyone gets to lie to you, cheat on you, treat you bad. One and Done. You won’t regret it.

Martha
Martha
7 years ago
Reply to  Anita

One and Done. Great Advice, Anita. 🙂

heissobroken
heissobroken
7 years ago
Reply to  Anita

One and done – love this Anita.

DoneAndDusted
DoneAndDusted
7 years ago
Reply to  Anita

Losing, listen to CN. Your marriage is NEVER EVER THE SAME AFYER AN AFFAIR. You will never be the same, trust me. We have all learnt the hard way.

I wanted to do counseling (MC/IC) bit it doesn’t really work, you know why, because nobody can tell you how you feel. Only you know how you feel and that is why you wore to CL.

You want peace of mind, LEAVE. You want happiness, LEAVE. You want to be free from STI’s, leave. A six year affair and you stayed??

Lady you bed to leave his sorry ass. You can not still be crying about this, a whole six years plus?? No lady you need to leave…

I always thought my STBXH had amnesia of some sort but it’s not, it’s cluster B personalities. He crazy as hell, he cheated, gaslit me, lied and would pretend all is well. We still live in the same house and I hate it, still in the process of finalizing things.

Leave. He doesn’t love you and he doesn’t care about you. The fact that he hasn’t left you is because he knows Jackie isn’t good enough to wife. Walk away… Let him have Jackie, let her deal with the turd. Move on. We still living together but I’ve moved on. I’m ending an 8 Month marriage because the signs were there before marriage and I’ve decided enough is enough.

Ugh no...
Ugh no...
7 years ago

My ex loved to talk about how much he “hated” the other woman. It gave him something to latch onto that we could band together to despise in complete unity. She was such a clueless moron with no boundaries! Yes, that’s the problem here, not the year long affair, not his refusal to admit something was going on! It’s that evil interloper that we must all recognize as the true root of all evil.
Fuck that shit. Anything that helps my ex husband paint himself as a victim of bad circumstances is ridiculous. The other woman is now his full time problem- and they’re both writing awful songs about each other and posting them online like musical crimes against humanity.

Anyway, get out of there. See a lawyer. Six years is not a slip up, it’s a purposeful vile deception that gives you nothing to work with.

Angie
Angie
7 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

Yes, my ex-cheater liked to talk about the OW…who happened to also be his ex fiancée. According to him this woman had “broken up with him years prior to our meeting because she could not get her life together”. She had moved out of his house because “she was bat shit crazy”. She apparently never really left the relationship though, because even after I moved in they talked every day (he traveled a lot) and I had no idea. She danced and I lived in HELL with SATAN himself. He told me all sorts of vile things about her while abusing me, stealing from me, and cheating on me. I was terrified that I was going to be like her (and he liked to remind me, “that is something OW would do”), so everything he said about her I did the opposite. I didn’t snoop, I tried not to be insecure, I gave him money (lots and lots of money), I gave up my bad friends, I stopped talking to my family because although I couldn’t put my finger on what was going on I knew I wasn’t safe and I knew something was wrong (I thought it was me, it wasn’t) and I didn’t want them to think I was losing my mind (I was). I DANCED for him and DENIED the screaming voice in the back of my head that was saying, “It’s not you!” I believed him when he said he loved me and that he was trying to help me. When D-day came and I found out that he had been with her (and others) the entire time we lived together and she knew I was living there. I called her. I repeated a few things that he had told me about her. Her response was, “It’s all in your head.” Which, to be fair, it was all in my head. Exactly where the cheater had placed it while gas lighting me for years. I haven’t been out long enough to completely have my bearings back, but I know this: I truly feel sorry for her. Not in an angry way, but in an OMG, she has been gas lighted for far longer than I was. She actually got up the courage to leave at one point. She moved out and left the state, but she came back, because the abuser “needed her”. The physical abuse, the sexual abuse, the financial abuse, the cheating, the lying…none of it compares to the mindfuckery. My body is healed, financially I’ll figure it out, but my soul, what he did to my soul is a travesty. I still find myself having revelations (like, “oh shit, how did I not see that”). I have trouble trusting myself, because I didn’t listen to the truth that my body and soul were telling me as I was slowly dying at the hands of the abuser. I am seeing a great counselor, the few REAL friends I have left are helping me walk through this, and I read Chump Lady because it reminds me that I’m not alone (people actually survive this shit), that I’m not crazy, and that there is hope. No Contact (and a restraining order) saved my life and I had to stop thinking about the OW in terms of being the enemy because that was not a healthy road for me, in a way blaming her was like blaming myself. As much as I wanted to hate the OW, I have first hand knowledge of what he does. Yes she knew I was living there and she could have walked away or found a way to tell me, but maybe she wasn’t strong enough. Maybe she couldn’t hear the truth over his lies either. I can’t say what her truth is, but I’m working on figuring out mine and mine alone and I pray that one day I will find “Meh”.

flutterby
flutterby
7 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

Ugh, “musical crimes against humanity”

This made me laugh so much Thank you!!!!

Ugh no...
Ugh no...
7 years ago
Reply to  flutterby

Not a problem- I wish I could post their weird talentless one-up-man ship musical feud. The caterwauling and lack of actual ability has them just standing around in the videos whining off key insults at each other.
It must suck to get exactly what you want and then be like “wait, no”

flutterby
flutterby
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Maybe a sound track for the dancing Yeti in his native tongue, I hear that that native tongue may be likened to caterwauling!!!!!

I’m still laughing. 🙂

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  flutterby

Posted on U Don’t Want to See This Tube?

Survivor
Survivor
7 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

I’m imagining a tone deaf dance-off. Good visual, Ugh.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago

CL gives great advice! I “asserted reality to a fuckwit” and confronted. How much more wise and calculating to plan your exit. Winning. Then you are more in control and do not fear your new life and going it. alone so much. I kicked him out before I read the book Leave a Cheater Gain a life. I followed the rest of the advice though – lawyer, therapist, etc. I wish my husband had been faithful, but since he was not, I am happy to be living a cheater free life. Now he is my X and I have my soul back.

YoungChump
YoungChump
7 years ago

If you stay he will have even less respect for you than he already does. And even worse – now he knows you will stay with him no matter what or who he does. There is nothing to forgive here.

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
7 years ago
Reply to  YoungChump

He will have less respect for you than he does now. Yes to this. Read the forums and you will find people whose X’s brought the OW into their homes, around their kids while still married. They just kept piling on the humiliation and enjoying it. Do yourself a favor and leave as soon as you can.

flutterby
flutterby
7 years ago
Reply to  newdaydawning

I had a friend that had her husband bring over a co-worker to cook them dinner in wife’s kitchen. I must have had the look of utter horror at this because the subject was changed by her husband lightening fast, like it never happened. I told my friend that I would have taken that women by the arm and led her to the door and shoved her (gently) down the front steps.

If x ever brought someone over I would be writing you from a cozy prison cell. But not to worry, I am a chump through and through, because I can attest that these f*ing disordered asswipes will make you conform to things that, if you were in your sane mind, you would never agree to. Gaslighting and blameshifting are real.

Special snowflake ha!
Special snowflake ha!
7 years ago
Reply to  newdaydawning

Amen. Exactly what mine did. And I needed to be okay with it because he “needed” her in his life to be able to deal with me and how “emotional” I was. By that point in the marriage, I was so beaten down by the devaluing and emotional abuse (on top of a screwed up childhood), that I took it for close to 2 years. Thank God I finally found my way out of the hell I was living.

Blindside
Blindside
7 years ago

Losing, the fact that you know about a 6 year affair and have other evidence of what’s gone on (and how your husband still acts) – just know that this is just the tip of the iceberg. We never know everything about our spouse’s affairs – we can’t, and we never will. You’ll never know the full story, so there’s plenty that has been going on that’s even worse than what you’ve experienced. Whatever is the worst case scenario you can think up regarding your husband – that’s closer to the truth than anything you know now. Quit giving him the benefit of the doubt, he doesn’t deserve it.

It sounds from your letter like you’re perilously close to just accepting disrespect as a lifestyle. Please don’t. Please don’t give up on yourself to put up with this abuse for the rest of your life. Because that’s what it is, it’s abuse.

I used to give my spouse the benefit of the doubt even though my gut was screaming otherwise. All I did was flush years of my life down the toilet. I’m almost done with her though. It’s like being at the bottom of the pool and looking up at the surface. I’m almost to the top to fresh air……..and I’ll get there soon! It’s time for you to start swimming towards the light too.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  Blindside

Blindside

That’s so true. As bad as it seems it is only the tip of the iceberg. It can and does get worse. Much worse. So leave. You have enough to go on already.

Tessie
Tessie
7 years ago

Sending you hugs my friend, because all of us have been where you are now. There are two things to consider. First, that there is no guarantee that he will stick it out with you no matter what you decide to do. If “Jackie” offers him a better deal than you can, believe me Honey, he will be gone in a heartbeat. Second, don’t be so sure he isn’t already hiding funds and assets to screw you over if you or he should decide to leave.

He is and has been abusing you in many ways for years. Financial abuse is just another one of their little tricks to maintain control. Oh, they love control. He can tell himself how awesome he is that he can treat you so badly and you will not only take it, but believe all his lies and still have sex with him.

I don’t believe you want to spend the rest of your life being a doormat for him to wipe his feet on. Otherwise you would not have written to Chump Lady.

He sounds vicious. His lack of concern for you, for your feelings, for your welfare is glaring. That is not love. He doesn’t love you. He is using you. Right now you are useful to him.

You have two choices. You can sit and whine and put up with his bullshit. Or you can get busy laying the groundwork to protect yourself and your children. Your choice. You will be able to respect yourself if you begin to prepare.

First of all, no more confrontation. It doesn’t work. He doesn’t care about how you feel. It only makes him go further underground. Second, make copies of all your important papers and store them somewhere secure. That means tax records, financial records, birth certificates, loan paperwork, deeds, passports etc. Second, anything you especially love , family treasures, photos, again squirrel them away and store them with a safe friend or in a rented storage space. Document all the paperwork detailing his infidelity, like those receipts. You can get that money back in court. It’s called dissipation of marital assets. Document everything he says and keep it in a safe place. Have a timeline. It will help you in the long run. Third, start saving money, in a separate account. And fourth, get yourself a pitbull lawyer, hopefully one who has experience with high conflict divorces with personality disordered people.

Keep coming here, posting here. We have been down the road you are on. We can help you understand what is really happening, what he is really saying and doing when he hands you his bullshit lines. This is the place that will help you figure out what is real. Here you will find the truth gathered through many collective years of pain and suffering. And here is where you will learn that you are stronger than you believe you could ever be. We are here for you.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  Tessie

Tessie. MissDeltaGirl
Great posts!!!
Between you it is all there, what is happening, what to do, what not to do.
Clear, compassionate, practical, a lovely roadmap from crazy to safety.
I have coped these too.
So much wisdom and caring here.

MissDeltaGirl
MissDeltaGirl
7 years ago
Reply to  Tessie

Thx Tessie. I was just about to write a similar post making every single one of your points, from “you are of use to him” to go stealth and secretly get your shit together by doing all of these things step-by-step. Since you made all of these points very eloquently, I will simply implore LosingMyMind — and anyone else reading this who is in a similar situation, to heed Tessie’s advice.
It’s tempting to lash out at the cheater and to tell them what you know and threaten to leave. I think in some ways it’s a form of trying to control the cheater. “If he/she knows I’m leaving he/she will be sorry and change.” It might even feel better in the short term. But you are really just hurting yourself more when you do so. But the ugliness you have seen in your partner is only the tip of the iceberg. When cheaters feel threatened by your sudden show of strength (at leaving) YOU will be the one to pay. Now is the time to protect yourself. Let him find out when you have him served — and after that keep your communication with him to an absolute minimum if No Contact isn’t possible.

heissobroken
heissobroken
7 years ago

“He will punish you”oh how I love the punishing phase! Nailed it one again, CL – you can’t see me but I’ve thrown myself at your feet and am in awe of your wittiness and spot on analogies of the disordered.

It’s not bad enough to screw someone else, abandon you etc. nope these assholes have to threaten and make you feel like nothing and turn it on you. Chumpy me now prefers the go fuck your self phase much better.

PF
PF
7 years ago

“If you’re not first…you’re last”

RickyBobby

flutterby
flutterby
7 years ago
Reply to  PF

Rickybobby pretty much sums it up, ridiculous as it is.

Marked711
Marked711
7 years ago
Reply to  PF

🙂

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
7 years ago

You need to start differentiating between what you want to believe and what you *actually* believe. Those are very hard to tease apart at first, but that is the key to realizing that the only way forward is out with a spouse like yours. I’m so sorry, I know how horrible it is, but the farther away from him you get the more you’ll realize that there wasn’t ever a choice. Not really. Good luck.

flutterby
flutterby
7 years ago
Reply to  Free Vixen

How I wish that a friend of mine would see it like this FreeVixen, “You need to start differentiating between what you want to believe and what you *actually* believe.” She is going to try wreconciliation with her x, he has an illegitimate son born just before they had their second daughter, he had a new “relationship” going on recently where the gf’s neighbors thought that he lived there with the gf. I don’t know what my friend is waiting for, maybe for her x to bring home the new gf and they can all live like “sister wives”. Crazy making, gaslighting and blameshifting, can really f*ck you up.

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
7 years ago
Reply to  flutterby

What we need is a former chump SWAT team to deal with these situations with shock and awe. We’ll swoop in with legal council, someone to watch the kids, a therapist, security, and pie, bitches. We’ll have the new chump’s shit straightened out and the cheater blinded by reality in 2 days, tops. Done and done! (There’s a reality show pitch for you…)

Devil on a Chain
Devil on a Chain
7 years ago
Reply to  Free Vixen

Free Vixen-
And a brilliant one. You should try and pitch that….ever how it is done. CL should float it with her agent.
Seriously.

There are reality shows about filthy houses, brides too big for their dresses and I believe there was even one about parking meter attendants.

CL would be the star, and then she would have a team that you mentioned. Like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy…a team to come in and radically scoop someone out of the living hell of being gas lighted with a cheater.

That show would KICK ASS. Forget the Book- syndicated television and you and CL would be bathing in champagne and counting stacks of cash.

Free Vixen
Free Vixen
7 years ago

Pitching a TV show is so far out of my area of expertise that I will leave it to chumps more media savvy than I. 🙂 But heck yeah I’d watch that show, ESPECIALLY with Tracy as the star!

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago

What I love most about you Chump Lasy is that this is not a safe space. There are two-by-fours of truth a flyin’. You cuss like a fucking sailor, and Chump Nation pulls no punches.

There are a lot of different stories here, but it doesn’t take long to see that every second spent with someone who would betray my trust and have sex with another isn’t worth one more moment of my life. One and done. I won’t be a slave.

So, LosingMyMind: get the fuck out. Get mad. Fuck his stupid gaslighting ass. He sucks. Tell him to piss up a rope. He’s a worthless piece of glittery dog shit. Fuck him and the skanky bitch he rode in on. She is a nasty cunt, and she can have him. I hope he dies in a grease fire.

As for you, welcome to the club nobody wants to join. You made it. You’re here. This is it. It sucks. But at least you found Chump Lady. You got this.

flutterby
flutterby
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

Ian, “One and done. I will not be a slave.” This is all we really need to know deep in our souls.

I actually found this site a life saver because I had read rec sites and I just could not “reconcile” that garbage with what I was feeling inside. I was hurt, I was mortified, I was in horrible pain and I was angry. I was so damn angry on the inside that I could not reconcile with this horrible excuse for a “shark, walking around in a human suit” that I was married to. I was so run down by the gaslighting, blameshifting and outright lying for 22 freaking years, but there was still a little spark of the woman I used to be before, that I just could not fathom that us chumps believe the straight up glitter covered turd’s ideas, thoughts, words or any other thing that this “thing” I was married to spouted out.

I love this site, I love how CL just cuts to the matter at hand, I love the cussing, because I never trust someone who does not cuss when the shit hits the fan (like x and his entire cheating family, mother, father and siblings), I love the comradre and the examples of the horrible excuses of excrement that torment us and want to make us believe them. I love the way that chumps rally around other and new chumps. I love that people take time out of their day to help others.

One and done. I will not be a slave.

LadyStrange
LadyStrange
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

I hope he dies in a grease fire. LOL!

JeepTess
JeepTess
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

IAN! 😀

How are you doin?? Beau and I are doin great! We hope you are too!

You will LOVE THIS…little playboy neighbor brought his latest home…her and her dog…beautiful dog by the way, it tried to attack Beau through the fence and Beau HIKED HIS LEG AND PEED ON IT! LMAO! Oh man…I think Beau felt betrayed! So FUNNY! 😀

…seriously, I brought him up with manners, truly I did, but I think he just couldn’t take anymore shit!

😀

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
7 years ago
Reply to  JeepTess

Howdy, Jeep. ?

Your joy radiates through the internet!

So many players in your tale. I’ll trust Beau’s good judgment!

Happy Thnksgiving, Jeep. A lot to be thankful for!

JeepTess
JeepTess
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

😀 Yes I do have a lot to be thankful for!!! We all do!!!! We get to live cheater free!!!

Same ‘player’ that I handed his hat to 3 months ago 😀 Called him out on his shit!!! Narcdar is working!!! (Thanks for that word Ian :D)

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU TOO!!!!

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

BAM!! Take that you whorefucking ClusterFucks ???

nomoreskankboy
nomoreskankboy
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Exorcist, you crack me up! Hahahahahahahahaha!

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

Ian.

What Vixen says below about this site has helped me the most. You are angry and show it. I sometimes am but then get a bit chumpy again and so come back so that you and Ex and nomoreskank can help me remember that I have a lot to be angry about and not to forget it.

The EX-orcist
The EX-orcist
7 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

Capricorn-you haven’t hit angry yet. You will. It was around 8 months out from d-day when I was most ferocious. I’m looking forward to your anger. I love Ian’s rant??

Longtimechump
Longtimechump
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Hi Ex, Ian and Capricorn.
I am 9 months out of the D day and anger is a new emotion. We supposedly reconciled last June. It was such an easy process for him that he later texted his close friend that we are fine and all I needed was a little extra attention and the p…s job. So humiliating. I kept feeding myself with illusions till now. It takes time and with my tendency to spackle I imagine 9 months is still a good timeframe. I pray to not fall into this trap again. Unfortunately no contact is not an option yet.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  The EX-orcist

Agree with Ex, Capricorn–you are a month, two months, three? from the deepest, darkest rage you have ever felt. Once you allow STBX to recede even more from your life, and start practicing grey rock, the full horror of how he betrayed you and how he strangled your marriage will come rushing at you with amazing clarity. The rage will have a life of its own; it will hover above you, it will reside within you, it will encompass your every thought for weeks on end. You will not know if you can contain the rage; you will worry about bludgeoning him with the nearest available cylinder should you see him.

Prepare yourself, this will be unlike anything you have ever felt before. But it will propel you forward, and away from the cheater. It is as necessary as muscle pain during a marathon.

Arnold
Arnold
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

One thing I kept in mind when angry was to never,ever give my XWs the satisfaction of seeing it.

NPDs love attention,positive,negative ,whatever. My XWs had big enough egos already.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

I don’t think the full rage comes until you’ve thrown them out, anyway. It requires the clarity of what they’ve done to us, and clarity isn’t possible until the chump is a safe distance.

Capricorn
Capricorn
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Ok. I’m a bit scared now. ?

Survivor
Survivor