Dear Chump Lady, Please kill my hope
Dear Chump Lady,
Three years ago, I found out that my husband had had a three-year affair. When I found out, he told me I was the “love of his life” and he’d made “the worst mistake of his life” and he wanted to stay married. At that time, we’d been married 15 years and had two children ages 8 and 6.
We went to counseling for a little bit. I thought he had stopped seeing her immediately. We stayed married.
Last summer, I found out that he had had an Ashley Madison and match.com accounts during his 3-year affair—neither one had activity on it because, I think, men have to pay but he had set up his profiles (what a fun read). When I questioned him on why he had these accounts, he told me, “He wanted to see what else was out there.” Nice.
Last Sunday, I found out that he had been seeing the same woman for the past 6 months (Did it ever stop from 3 years ago? I’m not sure). They’ve been meeting at an Embassy Suites near his office (that she pays for) because he thought I might have hired a private investigator (paranoid much?). When I asked why he had re-started the affair, he told me it was because I “never got over the affair from three years ago.” He said I never gave him the forgiveness he needed. He said that he felt our marriage was doomed and that I would eventually leave him. I thought we were moving forward.
Admittedly, I was not perfect and was still hurt by his 3-year affair and then finding out during the Ashley Madison hack last summer that he’d been on that too — maybe I’m slow to heal (maybe I need some bloodwork done to see why I don’t heal faster from being repeatedly stabbed in the back…)
He’s never going to change is he? No matter how much I want to believe that and continue to drink the Koolaid, he’s never going to be different.
But, it is so hard to give up hope in the face of all his promises.
Please talk some sense to me and take away my hope.
MissedRedFlags
Dear Missed,
Let’s just make a list, okay?
- A three-year affair. Which is really a SIX-year affair because it never ended.
- An Ashley Madison account.
- A match.com account.
- Openly admits to wanting to date while married “to see what else is out there.”
- When busted, he blameshifts this mess on to YOU for not “forgiving him.”
Let’s take this point by point.
1.) A three-year six-year affair is not a “mistake” singular. It’s thousands upon thousands of willful decisions to deceive you. It’s sociopathic. Normal people don’t have double lives nor can they maintain them. To do that you either have to have zero empathy (as in your synapses don’t fire), huge reserves of entitlement, and super powers of manipulation.
Try to imagine being him for a DAY, doing the shit he’s been doing behind your back. You’d break out in stress rashes, wouldn’t you? You’d being dying to have a heartfelt conversation and spill your guts. You’d grind your teeth and suffer constant anxiety and second guessing. You would not CONTINUE UNBOTHERED FOR SIX YEARS.
To behave as he has behaved is deeply fucked up. And it’s who he is. He’s got a lousy character and he’s really okay with being a total fraud. Not much to work with here.
2.) Ashley Madison? Oh great, he wants to hang out with other fuckwits like himself.
3.) Match.com? Oh great, he wants to deceive single people into thinking he’s single.
4.) He wants to see what else is out there? Oh, and he’d also like to stay married to you? That’s known as CAKE. He’s openly telling you he has absolutely no interest in fidelity. He’d prefer to shop. Indefinitely. (By the way, that’s your cue to do the Pick Me Dance and compete for the awesomeness of his indecision.)
5.) This is all YOUR fault? Really, you couldn’t forgive him? What does he think staying married to his sorry ass and raising his two kids is? A death sentence?
You never GAVE him forgiveness? What exactly did he do to earn it?
And let’s say that’s true. He believes you’ll never get past it. Then the honorable, sensible thing to do is END IT honestly and divorce you with a fair settlement. He didn’t do that. Because the point is CAKE.
Now, let’s look at his promises.
When I found out, he told me I was the “love of his life” and he’d made “the worst mistake of his life” and he wanted to stay married.
Apparently being the love of his life entails tolerating his constant quests for other loves of his life. Is that okay with you?
He made the worst mistake (singular) of his life? So… what? Is he going for the gold here on catastrophic, clusterfucky, super mistakes? He just thought he’d compound those mistakes? Mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake… Until the whole mistake collapses in on itself like a black hole, sucking everything into its gravitation pull? And we’re all pulled into his wormhole of fuckupedness and spit out into an alternative mistake universe?
Worst mistake? No. The only mistake here is staying with him.
And now you’re writing to me to kill your hope. To stop believing his lame promises. Listen, Missed, you better kill your hope before your hope kills you. Think of it as a showdown at the Not-Okay Corral. Only one of us is getting out of here alive, Hope!
Let that someone be you. If you stay with him, you stay with the knowledge of exactly who he is — a serial cheater. You’ll have a marriage with a man who looks elsewhere and blames you for it. Who subverts “forgiveness” as “free pass to do whatever the fuck I want to.” And if you object? You’re not being forgiving enough.
That’s soul death. Don’t choose it. Call a lawyer instead.
This sounds like my story, but different details. “Love of his life.” Check. “Can’t forgive.” Check. Can’t trust 100% after all the lying, women “friends”, triangulation, gaslighting. Check. It’s all my fault. Check. Stabbed in the back Check. Get a fricken lawyer and dump this piece of crap. CL, is right. HE WILL NEVER CHANGE! I wish I would have moved on YEARS ago and not wasted anymore time on my ex as HE DIDN’T CHANGE. He just kept figuring out ways to hide his deception. Get a lawyer and get out of this so-called marriage. ((((((HUGS)))))) to you, MissedRedFlags.
Missed RedFlags I Totally understand your issues same story for me but mine had a 20 year relationship with someone he met while I was pregnant with his son the kicker is i met her too he met this person while playing recreational tennis and little did I know this same person he had this long time relationship with. After he all of a sudden cant take this she decides to Bow out after all this time?? I have heard the gamit of things they were made for each other , we just got along, she got me i got her, soulmates?? the thing is was their only thing in common was drinking & sex oh he provided a job for her and supported her very well all the while i was doing my motherly & wife duties all along plus he used work & his soccer sport to take her away many many times . It too me 6 years to discover all this 9 months of therapy which im still in to try to figure this out, he says he wants to give our marriage a try ?? i can identify with everything said here 🙁 the entire situation has at times made me hopeless. Its awful to be purposely hurt betrayed and just deceived i hope you find the strength to pull yourself away sweetie (((((((((HUGS)))))))))
Yesterday was the three year anniversary my x woke up after 28 years and didn’t want to be married anymore. You guys know the drill, I paid for the divorce, I did the pick me, etc etc. it was REALLY REALLY ugly.
Yesterday he had his first round of radiation. 3 years to the day.
I got the same story too. The AP even asked him, and he relayed to me; “is awakening dreamer ever going to forgive you”.
So, so unfair. And the trust wordsalad I got when he was gaslighting me. I’ve actually forgotten. The specifics of what he said at the time because my memory is still recovering from the trauma of the last year/15years.
I stayed with a loser for 14 years after he cheated on me while I was pregnant and begged for a second chance. After 24 years, and a double life including a five year relationship revealed last year, he says, “I married the wrong person and spent 20 years making bad choices to cope with it” My fault.
Get Out. Don’t waste another precious minute
My ex cheated on me, too, when I was pregnant with our second child. Only a crappy, disordered, sociopathic, narcissistic, jerk would cheat when his wife was pregnant with his child and they also had another beautiful one year-old child together.
I think that’s the biggest mindfuck these losers try to lay on you, and unfortunately one of the most effective. “I love the whore, wah, wah, wah.” Nah, if you ” loved” the whore, you would be with the whore, no matter what. You LOVE the fucking cake. Not the low rent easy lay whore you bang on the side. When you try throwing one of these mother fuckers out of your house, see what happens. They don’t want to go. That surely is True Love.
““I love the whore, wah, wah, wah.” Nah, if you ” loved” the whore, you would be with the whore, no matter what. You LOVE the fucking cake.” – this is completely true.
Now (5 years after the event), narcissist is saying ‘it meant absolutely nothing’. Tell that to my broken heart. How can something SO damaging, ‘mean nothing’???
I lived his infatuation to her. I lived his adulterous monogamy, and his rejection and contempt. I lived his saying ‘I am treating you this way because you are a terrible wife’ (whilst knowing exactly what he was doing). His saying to me ‘I don’t know what I want’.
Now, it meant nothing???? As deep as a teaspoon, these people.
Best not in your life, for your own sanity.
“Tell that to my broken heart.” THIS!!!!
Haaaha exactly these P’sOS know all the angles
My XH POS cheated the first time (had 1st Ddy) when married 7 years. I forgave, powered on through it and moved on with the marriage. Two years ago DDy #2 exploded (think 4th of July fireworks finale) and over the next 6 months information rolled out that was unbelievable!! The divorce was filed and complete at 6 months as well. The marriage was at the 46 year marker, but honest to God, I couldn’t fathom another minute as his wife. He lived a second life of serial cheating. I don’t have a clue who the man is. The behaviors continue and worsen as they age. My message to all is do NOT waste another minute on these FREAKS. If they cheated once, there is a VERY HIGH probability it will happen again….like 90 plus percent.
Blown Away – same timeline with a serial cheater with a double life. “I don’t have a clue who this man is.” No kidding, WTF happened to them? Well, not my monkey, not my circus anymore, thanks goodness.
I ran into X’s long-time hair-stylist today and we talked about X.
Yep, he had not only changed his personality, but his looks had exploded and not in a good way.
She said, as I had noticed, his hair became really weird, and he had a lot of it – like he’d been electrocuted…and he wound up in her chair and just wanted a small trim. I didn’t know who he became then, but very unkempt. And, this was a fastidious man by nature.
The lady told me came in and it was obvious to her he had been drinking. This is at 2pm.
And, she said – he just wasn’t ‘right’.
I remember him having a martini after work every night – as his office closes at 2pm but you don’t drink and go get your hairdresser to cut your hair when you’re drunk and not listen to her? He didn’t listen so she trimmed it, like he wanted. Still electric hair.
I dunno why this made me feel a little better today, but to have somebody else validate what I was seeing with my own eyes, that was a practical stranger, point this out to me….I know I wasn’t mentally unstable. He was. Most people won’t tell you anything about what they thought of your X, and sometimes I’m dying to hear. The important things….he’d been going to her for 21 yrs. So, I trusted what she said and she said he was acting weird. Go figure! But I did – I KNEW he was getting very weird. Now it makes me wonder why he was drinking so early in the day. She said she couldn’t smell the vodka martinis on him but she knew he was drunk.
Just wow – I guess I overlooked all that but he was up to 3 martinis before he ate, every night. But, who was counting?
The one thing I didn’t want to hear from a ‘friend’ was…..’I’m not surprised you’re divorced, I’m just surprised it took you so long”.
I dunno but – so Long ‘friend’.
Bad thing to say, for some reason.
Same feeling here. I will write more in a later comment. I learned too much the hard way.
OMG, this is EXACTLY what my cheater did to me! Coming to terms with the fact that they can’t and will never change – no matter what they SAY – is the hardest thing to do, but with the support of CL and CN, I am learning to accept that fact and begin moving towards a cheater-free future!
It is hard, if not impossible, to forgive someone actively still wronging you. As CL points out, this is not the real problem here. It is blame shifting and a way for him to distract you from the real problems…his cheating and lying. Not much to work with here.
Here is my favorite Chump Nation sentence for today: “It is hard, if not impossible, to forgive someone actively still wronging you.”
If someone has wronged you, that person should be focused like a laser beam on restoring your trust. And that mean no blame shifting, no denial, no gaslighting, no lying, no cheating. And it means listening to the chump until the chump doesn’t need to talk any more. Most of these cheaters can’t do real remorse or make true amends. That’s the very best reason for not giving them a second chance while you live with them. If they move out and then shape up and show they have 1) become responsible adults and 2) figured out how to engage in reciprocity and 3) demonstrate a changed character over time, then maybe I’d buy their remorse.
Missed, the “biggest mistake of his life” was getting caught. You know that because he didn’t stop the affair for good. And of course he want to stay married. That’s preserving CAKE. Sex at home, sex with Schmoopie. Access to kids and the marital home. No need to divide assets. He has the image of the family man along with the fun of cheating. He gets to be central to two (or more) women. The Schmoopie is paying for the hotel. Not a consequence for this dirtbag in sight.
Get your ducks in a row. That means keep your head down until you have copies of all financial transactions, bank accounts,mortgage papers, home deed, etc., stowed in a safe place (at work, at the house of someone you trust) so you can get them no matter what happens. Make sure you have the originals of the yours and the kids’ birth certificates, social security numbers, passports etc. Gradually put precious heirlooms in safe locations if you think you will want or need to move. Make sure you have photos, copies of photos, and jpeg files. Run a credit check on both of you to see if there is debt you don’t know about. Then do the research to find the best possible family law attorneys in your area. Often you can get a free or low cost first consultation and listen hard. You need an advocate. You should also find a good therapist who understands disordered people.
Get your support system together. Who can you count on to help you? What things in your life comfort and sustain you in hard times? Are you in good physical health?–because betrayal is terribly hard on the body. In my view, the man you are married to is your enemy. He shows not one sign of caring for your physical, emotional or psychological well-being. I can’t kill your hope. But I am not sure what you are hoping for.
Stop listening to what this guy says. Look at his actions. What do they tell you?
LAJ – did you just lift “LASER FOCUS” from Penguins coach Mike Sullivan? That’s one of his go-to cliches, ha ha. 🙂
So many of us yinzer chumps out there, as we saw yesterday. Maybe there’s something about our region, culturally, something in our heritage that breeds codependency and chumpdom. I know I learned it at home…and my mom learned it in HER home… all immigrants of eastern European descent, my grandfathers were typical mill/mine hunkies (and abusers/alcoholics), etc. Just thinking out loud. LGP
Ha ha, maybe. I read a lot of sports coverage. And of course–Pens fan. We need a yinzer meet up.
I have never posted a comment before, however I’ve been reading daily for about a year and a half. I would totally be in for a Pgh meet up!
This guy is too disgusting to even comment about. Please just leave this turd and move on to your life without him in it.
Ugh. Choose not chose. My typos… need more coffee…
Man oh Man oh Man. Let’s have a retreat and I want to hear CL talk for hours. She just yanks you right back to the BLASTED TRUTH. I just exercised, and the whole time as my dogs sniffed and peed….my sick mind was going…an email…just to see how he is. Is he alive? (Day 21 of No Contact).
And I came back and found this brilliant, brutal, beautiful gem…just waiting for me….like the antibiotic I needed to stop this bacterial sickness of not accepting the truth about THE CHARACTER OF CHEATERS.
TRUST THAT THEY SUCK.
Say it out loud. Write it on your forehead with a Sharpie. I have my pen out now.
21 days? You’re just a pup. Please hold on. It gets much better. It still hurts (2 years out NC), but I truly have no desire to even think of her and would despise hearing from her. Be strong.
Yes, hold on. Worry about you. Put yourself first. Sometimes I’m not sure how many years now, but I think the great 3rd Gaslighting Anniversary is late August. Jackass and Scmoopie were apart for awhile (she separated or got divorced) but there are signs things are back on. Meh. They deserve each other. I can’t even imagine what I saw in him, and that was a 30 year friendship as well as…well, whatever it was that I got involved in. Certainly not a “love affair” or romance or actual dating….Once you see the sickness of the dynamic with a disordered person, there’s no going back. It’s like eating tainted food and throwing up and having diarrhea for three days. You never touch that food again.
Thank you Marked711~ Boy, who are you telling. I have tried to go NC at least 20 times? 30 times? This is the best I have ever done! I hope it gets better.
I am white knuckling it right now.
Taking it moment to moment! I am staying strong. Thank you for the encouragement.
Whenever you are wanting to break contact, write down in a journal what you want to say. Pour your heart out and spare nothing. Keep writing until there is nothing left inside. It needs to come out, but don’t break contact for your emotional needs. He doesn’t care about your emotions, your pain, or your loneliness. He cares only about himself and engaging with him on this level will only feed his ego.
I read what I wrote last June and I feel sad for the grieving woman I was and when I read from last month I am proud of the self-sufficient woman I am learning to be. I still get sad, lonely, and feel the loss of what I thought I had, but each day it is less sad, less lonely and I am grateful for what I do have. I am more than I thought I was and he is less, so much less, than he should have been.
Stay mighty. You can do this.
Annie Get Your Gun , you are beautiful. Your words hit a chord with me tonight. Thank you! I am more than I thought I was and he is less, so much less, than he should have been. Staying strong and trying to find me. Divorced for almost 5 months after 25 years marriage. Work in progress!
What I know beyond a doubt is that I would not be as far along as I am mentally and emotionally if I had not stumbled upon this web site looking for answers on why he betrayed me and checked out of our marriage. I found symptoms of mid-life crisis and how they mirrored depression and wrote them down in my journal. I look back at those symptoms and no longer care what his excuse was or why he did it. He is a true Fucktard and a sane person cannot explain fucked up retarded (In the true clinical definition of cognitive impairment and limited emotional and intellectual development) behavior.
I was looking for help for him, and I found it for me. I am forever thankful because what I now know without a doubt is that he sucks.
Finally got around to watching “Luther.” (No spoilers. Still watching.) (Love me some Idris Elba. And Ruth Wilson from “The Affair” is in it.) Typical BBC short seasons and love the cinematography. Anyway, after comparing Match Girl’s psycho answer last week in which she accused me, among other things, of blackmail and violence, I am no longer innocent. Luther doesn’t seem that far fetched. If (when) Match Girl and Match Stick do implode, she’s triangulating and riling him up to be a weapon pointed at ME!
Protect yourself, chumps. D-Day is just the beginning.
You deserve so much better MissedRedFlags…I was devastated after my wife cheated and left me after 24 years but 2 years later I am in such a better place. No more wondering what’s going on with her “weekends away with the girls” bullshit, no more stress just living with her. It’s scary to split up but it’s amazing how calming it can be after the storm passes.
Same for me too. 28 years married, 1 day divorced (as of yesterday). Let the adventure, and the new milestone marker begin! (Ian can post a picture of sexy blonde with hands held up in a “V”for victory here and it would not break my heart)
Congratulations on your divorce Annie :)!
Yay, Annie!! I’m on day ten of FINALLY being divorced and I’m LOVIN’ IT — cue McDonald’s music. 🙂 Congrats to all of us chumps that are no longer involved with a cheater and getting a life!
Yeah us! I texted my sister minutes after it was final. She asked me how I felt. I replied that I wasn’t sure yet. Here is her reply, “Makes sense to me I love you. This new chapter you’re going to write will be awesome. Cant wait to see it and continue being a part of it. You are everything to me and I’m proud of you.”
Isn’t she awesome. I’m proud of all of us chumps. It takes mightiness to drag ourselves up after such a blow. At first, it is seemingly fatal. Then we slowly stumble forward past buckling knees, nausea, and pain that is so sharp and directed it is pure torture. But we begin to walk straighter, stronger, and taller than we ever thought we could. When there’s a trigger and I falter, it’s no longer the arduous effort it was to get back up. It’s just taking a deep breath continuing on.
I asked my sister last night if it was bad karma that I’d just wished my sad sausage was dead (it fit into a TV show I was watching, sort of…), and she said, “No, I’ve thought about actually killing him.” I appreciated the moral reassurance from my real soul mate 🙂
Mine had an extreme surgery and will continue to have major cosmetic surgeries to complete his vision of self. For months I worried that he might die from it. I hope it is acceptable for me to admit here that lately I half wish he would. <— Not my usual character and so I really, really, am looking forward to Meh. Just wish I could forget about him altogether.
It’s acceptable to me 🙂
Annie!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!! 😀 I am so happy for you! You deserve it!
Oh BOY!!!! HUGS!!! AND MORE HUGS!!!!! WOOT WOOT!!!!
Wow! Just Wow! 😀
Well that went off the rails quickly. Lots of blondes with the victory arms, but they’re all stock-photos with water-marks. And then I thought a blonde holding two pistols above her head. That’s when it all went bad. I guess I haven’t been single long enough to know there’s a whole “girls with guns” thing.
Anyway Annie, CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR DIVORCE!!!
Here’s a few of the better photos! (BTW, imgur has a built-in meme maker)
She might be exercising not celebrating.
Not sure why she’s jumping in the rain.
I’m divorced at the beach!
Not sure I’ll get asked back to do this again.
?
This only took me fifteen minutes on a Friday night. Really.
Her arms are making a v right?
So happy you survived the mindfuckery shitstorm of that fuckturd you divorced, Annie! You’re mighty!
I woke up this morning and couldn’t stop laughing. Leave it to you Ian to brighten my day while enjoying my first cup of coffee. This is great!
🙂
Congrats, Annie! Yesterday was the first day of the rest of your cheater-free life!
Absolutely agree. After two years of living without that scum bag, I cannot believe that my life is so much more peaceful and calm. Why couldn’t I see it before instead of wasting all that time hoping. Give it up! Get a life! I promise you that it is there….a much better life!
“Give it up! Get a life! I promise you that it is there….a much better life!”
It really is! God once you get that cancerous growth cut off and out of your life it’s amazing how much clarity you gain. You really do emerge from the fog and can see how you were played. I can almost taste meh, I’m light years ahead of where I was when the hurricane hit. My daughter still lives with me and attending college, my son is going to move back with me for a bit as his relationship is ending and it’s all ok as I’m surrounded by genuine people that love me and care about me, no a partner choosing to sleep on the couch because “she sleeps better there” with her iPhone welded to her hand 24-7. It’s a horseshit existence living with a cheater. I don’t miss her at all.
Me too with the damn couch! My lying POS XH “fell asleep” on the couch every night. Sometimes he would come to bed at 4am, sometimes he would be there when I got up and went to work in the morning. I have no idea how he functioned at work. And again, cell phone and laptop glued to him at all times. Beware of the COUCH SIGN!!! Normal people sleep in a bed!
For myself I resorted to sleeping on the couch to get away from the ex and her cheating dramas, that’s when I gained some power back. I let her enjoy that cold cold bed, she asked me a few times if I was going to sleep in the bed again, no farkin way. Its important to know your worth. Beds are nice but I would have slept better on cold floorboards!
Yeah, my cheater did the same with the couch. Didn’t want to “wake me up” after he went to the bathroom. Funny how that iPhone was always tucked up against his private parts. Probably had it set to “vibrate” when the OW texted him. LOL. Saw him get out of bed in the middle of the night (around 1:30am) to check his phone. Asked him about it and of course he had some lame excuse about “work”, blah, blah, blah. Sorry. Work people don’t text in the middle of the night. Sooooooooooooooooooooooo happy to not have to live with the lying, etc.
Me three for the couch thing!!! My cheater would get up to “use the bathroom” and not come back (he would go downstairs to the couch). I thought nothing of it until our puppy (who slept upstairs with us) would get up every morning at 6 am. Every morning. Turns out thats when his skank got up and would call or text “good morning”, the buzz from the phone would wake up the pup… Phone records enlightened me to this habit, as I kept wondering why my pup had no problem sleeping in once we moved…. So unoriginal, these cheaters.
Count me in on the couch thing. Before he left he used sleeping on the couch as one of his reasons for being unhappy in the relationship. This despite the fact that he chose to sleep out there every night. More twisted cheater logic.
Even the pup gained some peace once he left lol! My ex always kept the dogs kenneled at night she had every excuse to and I just went along with her reasoning blah blah but after she left I tossed the kennels and let my cairn terrier sleep on my bed. We are both much happier lol. I got my daughter a shih tzu after her cairn terrier passed away to crash with so it really all worked out..Happier dogs and happier life!
Same!
Dear Missed: 15 years and two kids, I get it. We all do. It’s super hard to believe that someone you invested that much time in, created a family with, loved and forgave is such a monumental jackass. But he is.
I picked me danced for two years, praying that he’d “wake up” and see what he was losing. Got the same bullshit of I wasn’t forgiving enough (all while he was openly still with her…during his one sided open marriage…the condition he placed to even try to save our marriage).
Listen, Missed, get your proof, kick him out, divorce him. Once he is gone from your life, you will be the one to wake up from the fog and realize how much shit you had to put up with. These fuckers don’t operate in a vacuum: they degrade you, guilt you, make you question your worth on a daily basis. Make you feel that there is something wrong with You, all in the name of getting their needs met. Once you have him out, you will see how small you made your needs to accommodate the Entitled One. How much your kids have done without.
Once you realize that, and start building your own life for you and the kids, you will realize how mighty you always were. You will discover a core of strength you didn’t know you possessed and you WILL move on and be much happier for it.
Prayers and giant hugs for you and your kids! Be an Amazon and delete that weak little Peter Pan out of your life!
This. Don’t keep being the footstool he uses to reach the cookie jar.
This — “These fuckers don’t operate in a vacuum: they degrade you, guilt you, make you question your worth on a daily basis. Make you feel that there is something wrong with You, all in the name of getting their needs met. Once you have him out, you will see how small you made your needs to accommodate the Entitled One.”
They make you question everything and make you think you are crazy!!! TRUST ME – GET OUT NOW
Me. 4 years ago. Did the pick me dance…for 4 years. He separated from me. Now with ns.. He gleefully got ready for a date 3 days after the discard while staying in the office. And still wanted kisses and hugs from me even up to 3 months after. Cake eater!!! I shut that sh#t down! We are now low low contact until the house sells. Trust that he sucks and you will not win. GET. OUT.NOW.
(((Hugs)))
This con man describes his long lasting affair as ‘a mistake’, as if it were a one time tryst. It is actually a long series of mistakes to meet her over and over again for YEARS! So much so that it becomes unavoidable to develop an intimate bond outside the marriage, they shared so much time together, make no mistake that he must have also been declaring his love for her as well!
Yeah a mistake. What criminal admits to their crime? Same shit. They are guilty and will never admit it.
He cheated again because he didn’t think your forgiveness was satisfactory? As soon as I think I’ve heard it all, I discover that I haven’t. These people are a special kind of stupid.
A year ago I was in the same state of mind. Now: meh! Stbx (I filed) last week blameshifted ‘if you would have dealt with my uncertainties differently (meaning: the whole double life before and fucking around after DD), we could have made it’. I answered – from the bottom of my heart – ‘I am so so glad I didn’t. I resent fighting for a man that keeps on letting me down’. Dear MissedRedFlags, in your heart you know, it is the pain over the loss that keeps you there, let it go, the pain will go with it.
Grace,
“I am so glad I didn’t.” Me too. I always struggled with this one. What kind of person does not fight for someone they love? I felt I should fight for him and our relationship. I could literally kick OW ass and leave her sniveling on the ground. At the same time, I didn’t feel that he was worth fighting for. He betrayed my trust and I wanted to kick his ass and leave him sniveling on the ground. He has me by 10 inches and 100 pounds, but a swift kick to his bad knee to take him down and another to groin would be a great start. Sorry. I just had an angry relapse.
Ultimately, I’m glad that my wreconciliation didn’t last too long and I let him go.
Great comeback, Grace!
And that unsatisfactory forgiveness is based in what? Forgiveness is based on repentance! I don’t see any of that here. As I reminded my pastor post D-day, God offers forgiveness to everyone but not everyone responds with contrition, you know the often forgotten, other half of the equation. If he ever brings us forgiveness again, please ask him what contrition he has achieved.
In second thought, why bother? Get away from this monster now and go No Contact, the path to the truth and the light! I guarantee six weeks of No Contact will CHANGE YOUR WORLD!!!!!
AOoK–didn’t you get your post D-day memo? Forgiveness is to be based on just how FAB the cheater is; no apology, no remorse, no contrition needed! You get to bask in the warmth of their wonderfulness for eternity (or until the discard, whichever comes first).
What and silly me went and divorced him? Gosh, poor me, missing out on all that fabulousness. Had I only stayed in contact I am sure I would feel the need to bask again.
Instead I applied a liberal dose of cheater block! No Contact is the sunblock of cheater exposure. It comes as a level 8 for new chumps not sure they know what to do, moves up to a 15 for those with kids who whittle it down to email only, then up to a full coverage 30 for those who only have to handle special occaissions, and 50 for those who never have to interact with their cheater again!
And for particularly odious cases, here is the ultimate cheater block:
Tempest, you’re the best!!!
As attributed by the ultimate narcissist and soon to be headless Marie Antionette, “Let them eat cake.”
Beta fish deserve rescuing cheaters sure as hell dont! You go tempest!
You’re so right, Kar Marie–save the betta fish and let’s put cheaters in little cups in Petco. Stamp the cups “Toxic” and allow people to use them as mosquito repellant.
Leave it to Tempest to bring the ultra-violence! ⚒⛏??⚔☠⚰
Moi??
(but lest newbies get the wrong idea–I really am soft and nonviolent at heart. I rescue betta fish, for crying out loud.)
Oh, the bliss of 50 No Contact cheater block. I will never, ever have to see his face again.
Sounds very familiar…the only thing my staying the year after DDay, let me see that those “few” women were actually hundreds…he never stopped the entire time just went deeper under ground…my XH said, ” I thought you would leave me and I didn’t want to be alone” even though I never said that and was in counseling and thought we were actually doing good!! He ended up being a total sociopath serial cheater….still is doing it even now we’re divorced. Will not ever change, and seriously he doesn’t want too, he’s too special for just one person, I know this as I’ve read it many times in his messages to his OW, “I’m special and unique!” Not.
hundreds?!? geez! where do they find all these suckers?!
Hundreds! HOW DO THEY DO THIS. My life post-X is so quiet, calm, limited socially, deeply happy, and *fun*. But fun because it is shared with a very select few.
Half the reason I have been NC/LC for ? A year? Almost a year? Over a year? Is that he had many triangles going on, and I didn’t want to stick around and find out at what level.
The other half of the reason for NC/LC, has been the pure horror of potentially
finding out someday that it wasn’t just the many I suspected, but hundreds.
I don’t know how they live like this; I would never sleep. CL’s words today are like a wildfire for me, just pure raging truth. I’m totally ok with hope being burned away from this part of my heart.
Missed, do yourself the biggest favor possible and shut this crap down now. The longer you pour your efforts into a no-win situation like this, the more you are reinforcing a negative self-image, one that convinces your psyche that no matter how hard you try to do something (anything, not just “save a marriage”), you will always be ineffective and doomed to failure. Divorce Minister has labeled cheating as Soul Rape for a sound reason – by voluntarily surrendering your agency here, you are teaching your subconscious that you are a failure and not worthy of love, from others, but more importantly from yourself. The Pick-Me Dance is a tough habit to unlearn, and it invariably bleeds into other aspects of your life where self-assurance is crucial. Good luck to you.
Wiser – This is the most important truth I have read here. Reading your post, I realized that continuing to tangle with him sapped my self-assurance in every aspect of my life – my work, health, appearance, social activities, friendships, willingness to try new things, travel and meet new people. I would counsel anyone to get that Property Settlement Agreement signed as soon as you find out. Don’t fall for wreckonciliation or do the Pick Me Dance. Don’t get sucked in when s/he panics after you file. You will just destroy yourself while s/he keeps up the same behavior. The longer there are no consequences for them, the worse they become.
Great post.
Very motivational. I’m cutting and pasting this one into my recovery journal.
Sooooo true … + 1
Wow. +1
Wiser, you just illuminated my understanding further with this truth. Our psyche taking a cue.
+1
So nice Wiser. I love this
WORDS verses ACTIONS.
Looks at CL’s list and see if the items on it match up with him saying “he told me I was the “love of his life” and he’d made “the worst mistake of his life” and he wanted to stay married.” I don’t think so.
However, his actions do match up with “He wanted to see what else was out there.” So stop wasting your time being the only one invested in your marriage and give him his freedom to explore his options without the baggage of a wife (that he obviously doesn’t want to be with). Your life will be hell for a while but isn’t hell now? And the additional 3 years you gave it already prove that if you stay, the next 3 likely won’t be either
I know what I have written is tough to hear but I have been in shoes similar to yours and the sooner you realize that you have to step up and leave, the better off you will be. Take care of you – no one else will do that for you, especially your husband (he’s already proven that). Oh, and get tested for STDs ASAP and don’t have sex with him again.
Also, line up a job. Look into some sort of education/certification. Many degrees are available online. Coding, accounting, nursing, cosmetology, child care, military support, or transcribing will see you through the toughest times. If you already have a job, keep a foot in that door.
My ex said and did most of the exact same things as in this letter. He claims he cheated (over and over) because he “didn’t think I would ever forgive him”, because I “said awful things to him” (I did compare him to my cheaterpants father. Once.)”, because I was “going to graduate school and didn’t pay attention to him”, because, because, because…
“A three-year six-year affair is not a “mistake” singular. It’s thousands upon thousands of willful decisions to deceive you. It’s sociopathic. Normal people don’t have double lives nor can they maintain them.” <– This. All of this.
It doesn't matter his "reason" for cheating. If he was invested in your marriage, he would have cared enough to work through and address any *actual* problems you both may have had.
Listen. The Pope himself wouldn't have enough "forgiveness" to offer your cheater. Cut your losses, get a good, supportive therapist and a bulldog divorce attorney. Later on, you can find someone who loves you and for whom there wouldn't be any "reason" good enough in this world to cheat on you.
Yes, Chumplady, thank you for breaking down what a multi-year affair is. It is not a lapse, not simply a mistake, or “I could not help it” (as my ex said), it is an astounding series of thousands of lies to maintain. It is one of those times where you cannot separate the behavior from the person because it takes some sort of “unique” personality in order to pull it off.
The cheater handbook.”You are the love of my life.” and “I knew you would never forgive me.” Check and check. Still can’t figure out how I was supposed to forgive him when he was still cheating! Words, just words, all designed to keep confuse, deceive and deflect.
I heard the same things. The other thing I heard was my limbic system screaming “Danger! Danger!” every time I saw mine after D-day. My limbic system was more convincing.
Oh, and another thing. I was dancing the Pick Me Dance for our entire relationship, but didn’t know it. Now I’m doing the Fuck You Dance and enjoying partnering with myself and gaining a life!
Awesome Martha – I propose the Chump Slide as a version of the “Fuck you” Dance (to the Cha Cha Slide Melody):
This is somethin’ new
The Chump Slide part 1
And this time we’re do the dumping
Dumpin’
Everybody clap your hands
Clap clap clap clap your hands
Clap clap clap clap your hands
Alright we gonna do the basic steps
File to the left
File to the right
Don’t take it back now
One lawyer this time
Right foot lets stomp
Left foot lets stomp
Cha cha real smooth
Now turn it out
To the left
Take it up to the court
One hop this time
Right foot lets stomp
Left foot lets stomp
Cha cha now y’all
Now it’s time to get judgy
To the right
To the left
Let your lawyer take it now y’all
One motion this time, one motion this time
Right foot two stomps
Left foot two stomps
Slide to the left
Slide to the right
Criss cross, criss cross
Cha cha real smooth
Lets go to court
To the left
Take it back now y’all
Two motions this time, two motions this time
Right foot two stomps
Left foot two stomps
Hands on your knees, hands on your knees
How low can your cheater go
All the way to the floor
Like s/he’s never never stopped
But you bring it to the top
Cuz’ you’ll never never stopped
Get judgy with it
Ooooooooh yeah (come on)
Cha cha now y’all
Turn it out
To the left
You won’t take it back now
Five motions this time
Right foot lets stomp
Left foot lets stomp
Right foot again
Left foot again
Right foot lets stomp
Left foot lets stomp
FREEEZE
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdLRftdrH8&w=420&h=315%5D
Still dancing over here, Chumptitude.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdLRftdrH8%5D
Haha. the Fuck You Dance, is so my kind of dancing.
I was also doing the “pick me Dance” throughout our entire marriage and now Im doing the “Fuck You” dance…the day I learned he was a serial cheater, I called a few specific people I knew he would never want to know his darkest secret just because I knew if he were alive it would piss him off. That day I also took the last photo of him off the wall (cursing all the way to the basement with that fucking photograph). When he comes to mind, I often just say or think “fucker”…and I probably WAS the love of his life and he is still a “fucker”.
Martha, you slay me! Allow me to suggest some other dance steps:
You Suck Salsa
No More Cakewalk
Ta Ta Cha Cha
Bye Bye Boogie
Out of Limbo
Table for One-Step
She’s a Hora
Twist in the Wind Asshole!
Dancing With the Stars, Chump Edition
I love the Fuck you Dance too!!! Great concept and it made me laugh out loud.
I love the Fuck You Dance!!!!
And I’ve come to realize, I’m really good at it! Perhaps we need a Chump Nation Fuck You Dance Off?
What a massive catharsis that would be! I envision a big party tent with a smoking, rollicking band.
And! Major head-shaking dancing!
I’d be there even if it was held across the country.
Yes!
It always leaves me somewhat aghast how these idiots can say, without a shred of irony, that they can’t get past feeling unforgiven.
In reality, they have already been given HUGE second chances (third, fourth, etc.) by their chumps that they have taken completely for granted.
The fact that you didn’t put everything he cared about on the front lawn, apply accelerant, toss the match, and dance wildly around the bonfire after hearing about his total horse shit was a GIGANTIC favor. The fact that you didn’t throw him out on his sorry ass before he could say “Ashley I’m a Pathetic Loser Madison” was an incredible gift.
If he wasn’t begging for your forgiveness after said horse shit, then he is a complete douche. Mere entitlement wishes it could take lessons from this kind of evil.
Couldn’t forgive, my ass. You already gave him way more second chance than he deserved and he took it all for granted, like the entitled jackass he is.
The ONLY reason I didn’t do some serious property damage is I’ve always been one of those people who thinks about consequences of their actions and I didn’t want to be fired from my job for having been arrested on a few felony charges. I would still love me a front yard bonfire, but the momentary pleasure it would give me would not be worth the cost. I’ve always been the “If it feels good to say or do something at the time, it’s the wrong thing to do.”
Now that I read what I just wrote, I guess that’s why I’m not a cheater.
Amiisfree- It really isn’t about her not forgiving him, it’s about making her wrong about everything. I guarantee you had she forgiven him, then he would have made her wrong about something else. The goal post would have moved. He couldn’t care less if she had forgiven him or not, it wouldn’t have stopped him from cheating and he would still blame her for everything. His real motive behind his statement is to ensure he finds *something* anything to make her wrong. That’s where he’s coming from, not seeking her forgiveness. That’s like asking someone why they lied to you, and then retort: Why are you talking to me in such an angry way? The anger isn’t the real reason, it’s a cover up for the real motive, which is to turn the blame on you. Which is what this guy’s tactic is, to turn the blame on her.
“That’s like asking someone why they lied to you, and then retort: Why are you talking to me in such an angry way?”
This ^ happened to me. Word for word. Several times. Ha ha ha!
Kellia – I love your posts! They make a lot of sense.
This is exactly what is in the cheater-handbook of tactics.
I’ll never forget, in the heat of the battle, that he said I was mentally unstable.
HA!
That really got my goat.
HE was the one that was unstable!
And, I went on to prove it without a doubt.
In all the bottom of hell I was going through, I had enough wisdom and, I guess self-preservation (is that a good thing?) to protect myself and my family of dogs at all costs. And, he was the one off the deep end and made many many mistakes in his stupidity. For such a ‘smart guy’, it surprised everybody, including his own family who idolized him, how he did so many stupid stupid things.
(like threaten me and steal a bunch of money from me and even threw me on the ground – I could have had him arrested)
Btw – he signed all the allegations I made against him when I filed for divorce, so it’s all public record.
Didn’t protest one word I accused him of.
All those years he made me feel inferior intellectually to him….he, who didn’t believe in the internet, while I was busy making it my hobby once I had to give up my job for him, and I ‘won’ at the end, if you will.
I used all my technology to catch him red-handed and he didn’t have a clue….HE, who thought I was wasting my time on a computer when I grew up with Linux in my career. He, who needed me to set his entire offices up with dial-up while we were in remote spots of Montana and traveling in a motorhome.
He, who never appreciated any of that.
At least, he never said so.
I helped him make the money he was so fucking proud to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZfsrkQkWGA
You’re so welcome Shechump! That’s a nice compliment you paid me. And now it’s my turn to tell you, that this guy didn’t stand a chance against you. You were smarter, savvier and he knew it. No wonder he made you feel intellectually inferior, he resented you for it. He’s such an insecure coward. And I love how you proved him wrong with evidence. He will never be able to deny that, when it’s written in black and white. Ha ha, the fool, he didn’t know who he was dealing with. I’m glad you got justice. All this should show you how strong minded you are and oh so mighty! Go Shechump!
Those labels are made to destroy our credibility. If someone is insane or unstable, then what they say and do isn’t valid or even believable right? Would you believe a crazy person who said they saw aliens. Same here, cheaters are insinuating that we don’t know what they heck we’re talking about when we accuse them of cheating, etc. So if we’re crazy or unstable, then *our accusations* calling the cheaters on their crap are not valid. We’re crazy to think they’re cheaters, how dare we! We’re insane to think they are having an affair, it’s all in our minds and we’re mentally unstable. It’s all designed to deny us the right to defend ourselves and so they can remain entirely blameless. Hope I answered your question.
What is it with them and accusing us of being mentally unstable or insane?
sorry typo – then *they* retort.
That is the damn truth.
Why all of us didn’t do this the first time amazes me. I suppose that’s why we are chumps? Great post Amiisfree ?
The first time I found STBX had an active online dating site (he lied to me when I found it and said he didn’t know what it was), I was beyond pissed. I took all of his suits, dunked them in the toilet and threw them out the second story window.
I should have changed that stupid lock, I should have made him leave the key, if I’d know for just one second he’d back to cheat on me. (while we are all dancing…..)
Dusting off my shoulder. Thankfully, I found C/L immediately after I suspected something off.
And, I did almost just that, except I’m not an arsonist.
But, I’ll never forget reading Joan Dideon’s awesome book called, The Year of Magical Thinking, which I’d read a few years earlier and gave to many widows afterwards. I was so touched by how much she and her husband connected, emotionally and through their years of writing across a desk from each other.
One of her most poignant pieces was how she couldn’t throw out his shoes, because it meant he’d never be coming back, and she so wished this. I remember thinking how much I’d feel the same way when my beloved husband died. I was heartsick over her heartsick.
When I kicked him out – I had wardrobe boxes (lucky him, no wimpy green bags) and I looked at his fancy polished shoes, his tuxedo shoes, his work shoes, his running shoes, his fancy cowboy boots – and I gleefully – totally GLEEFULLY, threw them into the bottom of the wardrobe box and hairy-scary, hoping I’d scuff them all up….also, he’d have to dig for them thru a 6’ft high box. BWAAAHAHAA.
Fucker. No sweet memories of his shoes for me!
Dear Missed, sorry you are going through this. My STBXH had left a letter he wrote to a Ukrainian woman on the spare bed, and so I went through the looking glass and started investigating. Those two dating sites are the ones you know about. I found my future ex-husband had been on 23 dating/hook up sites. You have for a limited time the upper hand, you are asking for help and have realised he is not there for you and your family. So, for the future, please document everything; get passwords, copy paperwork, take note of all financials.
You can’t forgive him because a true apology consists of I’m sorry, I take full responsibility for my actions, how can I make amends? He has not apologised, has taken no responsibility and has not done the most basic thing you asked which was to stop screwing other women! This is like being in a sinking ship where you are bailing water while he is pouring it in. He has shown you who he is with his actions, you have tried to save this marriage but one person can’t do a two person job. Rescue yourself and your children, get to a safe haven. Good luck.
“You have for a limited time the upper hand, you are asking for help and have realised he is not there for you and your family. So, for the future, please document everything; get passwords, copy paperwork, take note of all financials.”
THIS. Get all of this documented, browsing histories, screen shots, print as PDFs with headers showing, save to flash drive. It’s horrible but get it all in case you need it in any legal action.
Do it fast, like ripping off the band-aid. And don’t let on how much you know, or how.
Sorry you are going through this. I swear there’s healing and peace on the other side of it, for you.
I’m with CL on this one – Hope is not always your friend. Take care of yourself, dear.
Hope does last…as any good manipulator knows. A promise is a comfort to a fool…. don’t believe.
Hope dies last. Typo.
If you stay with him, you stay with the knowledge of exactly who he is — a serial cheater. You’ll have a marriage with a man who looks elsewhere and blames you for it. Who subverts “forgiveness” as “free pass to do whatever the fuck I want to.” And if you object? You’re not being forgiving enough.
^^^^^this was my fait till I stood my ground found perspective and got out^^^^^
those who have read my posts can testify as to my brokenness when I first found CL, I had lived in a sense of endless hope for years, believing that if I just tried harder, worked on my issue, gave him enough freedom, support, love. That eventually he would re-engage with me and we would have the marriage that I envisioned we could have. I was even desperate enough to believe if I just engaged with him more sexually, things would change, they never did and it just left me feeling lonely and empty and when those feelings got the better of me I became sullen and grumpy. in his view “a bitch”.
At what point do we choose to get off the hamster wheel? Following D’Day it was not a case of if I stayed with him knowing what he had done, it was expected that I stay with him knowing what he had done, it was my duty as a submissive christian wife. My choosing to leave was his get out of jail free card, he and his supporters blamed it all on me, gave him absolution and supported his pursuit and marriage to a very needy chump(not affair partner) who married him knowing what he has done. I can clearly see that he has not changed as I know his tells. Trust me when I tell you, they do not change no matter what comes out of their mouths.
Trust in only one thing……other than he sucks. Trust in you.
big hugs.
This is my story too but I was married 11 years, and he cheated for TEN of them. And I was completely clueless until I accidentally discovered his double life. When asked how he could have possibly done this for so long he said, “I thought it would eventually end.” Huh? Like asking: “Honey, why did you keep stabbing me in the back?” and he answers, “Well, the knife was there and I thought you’d eventually die.” OMFG. I have no idea how disordered people get this way but it takes a really cold, calculating sociopathic personality to be able to look his wife and children (two of them) in the face every day and feel no remorse, no guilt, nothing other than smug satisfaction with how easy it is to con them. When I first found out I was truly spooked to the very core. What I thought I knew and what I discovered were so polar opposite – I almost felt like I was in physical danger. I did the pick me dance for exactly ten days before I kicked him out, changed the locks and retained a lawyer. Stop playing this rigged game and call a lawyer, Missed!
Never ever allow yourself to be manipulated into thinking you somehow caused the cheater to stray. They are pros at blameshifting, and chumps are pros at somehow trying to blame themselves, because we do not want to believe someone we fell in love with sucks. Chumps need to realize they were tricked by a loser and move on. Once I realized my marriage was doomed to fail, because my XW lacks character and could only pull off her charade for so long. Although I have my moments, I am so much happier to have a drama-free life without someone who has no respect for me as a spouse or human being with feelings for that matter.
” tricked by a loser” …yup that says it all
Missed – if you were emotionally deaf, if you couldn’t hear the words he’s used to mitigate his behavior, if you only had your eyes to watch his behavior, you’d be horrified by what you’ve seen. Normal people like yourself assume that when people say things they actually mean them. A person like you couldn’t imagine looking your loved one in the eye and and constantly spew lie upon lie upon lie. Your husband is not normal. He’s not to be trusted. He’s capable of the worst kind of betrayal in intimidate relationships.
And the sickest thing is he blames YOU for continuing to be a grade-A douche bag. With that, he is saying he refuses to control himself and take responsibility for HIS actions. I’m certain that in his teeny, tiny mind he blames the OW for throwing herself at him and for relentlessly pursuing him. He tells himself he is a constant victim of female manipulation.
When it comes to infidelity, hope is just another four letter word. You can’t hope your husband into being a man with character. You either have character or you don’t. I’m of the belief that character development occurs very early in life and it’s not something you can acquire after you’ve been wired to be an entitled asshole. The way your husband has behaved is not just behavior – it’s who he is at his core. Even if he never cheated again, the entitlement would continue to show up in a myriad of ways. If he never cheated again, you would be forever blamed for “keeping him on a short leash”. That’s no way to live your one and only life, Missed.
Your husband is a lemon. He like a crappy car that breaks down in the worst neighborhoods and leaves you stranded and in danger. He’s not reliable to get you safely where you want to go. You need to sell him to the OW who is pathetic enough to actually CHOOSE to be stranded by him for six years. He’s never going to be a nice safe SUV for you and your children.
Wishing you the strength you’ll need to get through this.
“Even if he never cheated again, the entitlement would continue to show up in a myriad of ways. If he never cheated again, you would be forever blamed for “keeping him on a short leash”.”
Uneffingbelievable – This sentence hit me like a ton of bricks!!! You are so right! That’s what happened with an ex of mine. He didn’t cheat on me, but he was showing signs of bad behavior. And whenever I’d tell him to stop the behavior, he’d stop it, but his entitlement would cause him to say resentful comments to me like this, or that I was controlling him. You just made me realize what was going on and I’m so glad I’m out of that relationship. Thank you for enlightening me. You made my day!
” I’m certain that in his teeny, tiny mind he blames the OW for throwing herself at him and for relentlessly pursuing him. He tells himself he is a constant victim of female manipulation.”
uneffing,this was one of the lines I got on d-day… and I’ve often referred back to it, that Cheaterpants was COMPLETELY blameless. The part of his cheating that was not MY fault, was entirely OW’s fault. You see, “she was all over me like a train wreck.” No. Consequences. Ever. for these mofos. They will NEVER own their shit. As a rule.
The “Lemon” analogy is perfect! Sometimes the car seems to run, but it leaks oil everywhere and never gives you confidence. And you dread the next time it leaves you stranded and alone when it was supposed to be available when you really need it.
Yes but you love that old clunker of a car. You just can’t detach. Sure it has left you stranded on the side of the road too many times to count and it has cost you a bucket load of money to keep in going, but you’re used to it and it seems like a comfortable fit. Then, when enough is enough, you visit the dealership and trade in that old crappy Pinto and get yourself a Jaguar.
Wow, one of the best replies I’ve ever seen. Thank you!! I’m out 4 months NC, doing well. You said everything I needed to hear when any doubts creep in-this was all about his choices, his wants, him being evil. I was told also that I was his “soul mate” and he was a “horrible person and would never do evil again!”. Well, he did it for a solid 6 years non-stop with a low life criminal. To “Missed Red Flags”, please let him go, he is not worth one more day of your misery. I wasted too much time and don’t want to see anyone else do that. They do NOT change. Have a great life and know that he never will. Once the fog clears, you will be happier, calmer and feel so much lighter inside, knowing you left darkness behind you.
Try to imagine being him for a DAY, doing the shit he’s been doing behind your back. You’d break out in stress rashes, wouldn’t you? You’d being dying to have a heartfelt conversation and spill your guts. You’d grind your teeth and suffer constant anxiety and second guessing. You would not CONTINUE UNBOTHERED FOR SIX YEARS.
^This ^
How a human being can do such a thing for so long is beyond my comprehension. X had a long term affair for at least three years and I wondered why he was treating his family like crap. When I discovered it, I was so scared that I had been sleeping with the enemy for so long – scared for my very life. My brain knows not to have hopium, but my heart and emotions need to catch up.
One absolutely cannot reason with such disordered people. There is nothing to work with there. No Thing. End the mindfuckery now. You control this now. Get out.
Let her have the cheating, lying thief. She deserves him. They deserve each other.
‘You would not CONTINUE UNBOTHERED FOR SIX YEARS.’
Excellent point.
Mine must have had some kind of conscious because:
1) He kept it totally hidden from me for 3 yrs (feeling guilty, were ya? Too much to have to hide it?)
2) He started to physically go downhill about year 2. I didn’t know what was wrong with him, but he started getting fat.
He was getting increasingly more angry at me. He quit exercising the dogs with me and altogether quit exercising and we had nice big lap pool – and he started eating a LOT.
He quit shaving and wouldn’t brush his teeth (he had perfect teeth he said, and he was actually right), but he stunk.
He let his hair go like the scientist in Back to the Future.
People said, he was aging badly.
3) He would sleep all the time! I wondered about that. On a weekend, he’d have 10 hrs of sleep, wake up tired, and take naps all day. I mean, that is not normal for healthy active people. I’ve since learned that they exhaust themselves so much with their double lives that they are very short of sleep. Can you imagine how much brain power it takes to hide all that! No, you’re right, it’s not about the affair sex at all, it’s about the cost of the deceit.
4) And finally, I think the toll came in on him when he got the divorce papers the same day he found out he had to have his entire prostate removed because of cancer.
Oh, whoa is me. Or, him – more likely.
Thanks, Chump Lady.
And thanks for all the supportive replies from everyone else.
He came home last night angry and told me this affair is one I have “driven him to” because I just couldn’t “move on” and I need to change if I want him to stay. I don’t.
I can’t understand how the decisions of my life have lead me here….to apparently developing the superpower of controlling my husband’s fidelity with my behavior. Funny thing—3 years ago, he told me his affair started because he “resented my weight loss and resented my lack of exercise” and that devastated me and my self esteem–him telling me this affair was due to my lack of forgiveness isn’t as painful as a personal attack on my appearance. Sadly, I have become someone who accepts the very least amount of love and respect as my due and it needs to stop.
I’m going to pull myself up and move forward with the divorce.
MissedRedFlags
After all that you stayed- no leaving, no divorce, you chose to drink the unicorn koolaid.
What if she was not the first AP- would that make a difference? Or will you continue to stay and not follow through with the divorce.
What do you need to know to proceed with the divorce? Or does it not even matter to you because no matter what you will never divorce. Would it matter if he called you names, would it matter when they had sex, on your birthday on his birthday on your wedding anniversary, when you were away, would it matter where they had sex- at your house, in your bed, on your coach, in your kitchen, on your dining room table, with the kids in the next room, at the vacation house, would it matter that it never ended, would it matter if he told her he was leaving you, would it matter if he was looking for another place, would it matter that he shared intimate details about you, would it matter if he is still lying to you, would it matter if he had sex with her on the same day he told you he loved you and wanted to stay married to you. If all of those events don’t matter to you and you want to stay married then you know exactly what you are getting- he has shown you in Vegas neon lights who he is, and will again – if you stay your choice is made with your eyes wide open- and you can’t blame him- if he again shows you his true nature. You were aware of who he was from the first dday, and yet you were surprised with the second dday and probably the third dday, but why would you be surprised from when he told you on the first dday who he was – you just didn’t want to believe him. He has again shown you who he is from the second dday and probably third dday but you still dont want to believe him. And he has probably made those promises again that he will never cheat again, that you are the love of his life, that he does not love her, that cheating for the past 6 years was the biggest mistake of his life, that he will never speak to her again, and he probably said it with crocodile tears running down his face. And even though you want to believe him because you have invested so many years into this marriage, 2 kids, a dog and a white picket fence, you know that he chased her, he kept going back to her, he wanted to be with her, he loved her, but he is spineless. And unfortunately although you pretend to have the bitch boots on- in reality you are too faint-hearted to leave. Instead you prefer to stay, “work it out” put the ball and chain on him, and call it a marriage- you say its for the kids but in reality its for you because you would prefer the safety of a marriage as f’ed up as it may be versus being single. The hope you should be seeking is the hope to recognize that you have been cheated on for six years, and that you have the courage to wear those bitch boots proudly and kick your cheater to the curb. Hope for courage not to stay but to leave. Six years girl, all over your house, really and you are staying. SMH
Dear Missed, Hope you were able to find strength to move forward with the divorce. As Chump Lady has stated this was not a 6 month affair but a 6 year affair. What type of person can separate himself from the person he spent 6 years with, talking about you to, telling her all of your faults, talking about your most intimate marital details. If you are staying because of the kids, because you don’t want them to come from a broken home (because you would prefer for them to know it is okay to stay married even if your husband cheats on them- just as long as he promises it will never happen again), staying because he wants to stay married because he doesnt want a divorce, because you want to keep your financial lifestyle, because it is easier to stay, because he has “ended” the affair this time, because he promises he will change, because he says he loves you, because he is being transparent, because its different this time, because for so many reasons called “hope” this will never happen again, you shouldn’t. I recently read a post of a BS 10 years after 2 DDays- 10 years later he did it again- now she is 55- now the children are gone, she is 55 and 10 years later she is dealing with infidelity again- he never changed. Don’t be lulled into the false hope that he will change “forever” and will “never” cheat again. Today he tells you what you want to hear, but the day before he was whispering sweet nothings in her ear, the day before he was in her bed, maybe he has ended the affair, maybe he hasn’t, maybe he will start another affair if not next month, next year, maybe you will have to be the marriage police for the next 10 years, maybe after the kids have gone and you are 55 he will see no reason to be faithful – yes a lot of maybes but with his track record it is more probable than not. What you need to understand is that he only loves himself and his self-preservation is the status quo- the family guy – if he loved you he would not have cheated for 6 plus years, he would not have lied to you for 6 plus years. Consider the character of the person who you are choosing to stay with – is this the person you would want to make your life or death decision when hooked up to life support. Yes divorce is difficult, yes sharing custody is difficult, but what is more difficult- staying with someone who hated you, disrespected you, did not love you, lied to you, and no matter how many promises he makes – will highly probable do it again and but for being caught the second or third time would not stop, but for the threat of a divorce would not stop. Why would you want to live like that using divorce as a tool to make someone “love”you, use divorce as a tool to “make” someone stop mistreating you. Why would you want to stay in a marriage held together by threats. I bet you didn’t see any red flags this time around. SNAP OUT OF IT. He is a leopard.
I agree leopards do not change their spots Missed I know exactly where you are I am in the same position instead of 6 it was on & off for 20 years its devastated me Funny Girl You Hit every point right 🙁
Omg. That is called self-annihilation. Live and eat. You need some power. You need some food. Size zero is too small. Protein, carbs, vegetables, fruit, milk. Eat. Eat three meals a day. You need your strength. Grrrr
Good luck with everything, MissedRedFlags! You have given it your very best shot. You’ve shown tremendous forgiveness, given him the benefit of the doubt and even lost weight in the hope that would help. None of it has worked. It’s time to move on and try and build your life as best you can without him so far as that his possible. I am really sorry but not one bit of this your fault. The truth of the matter is that your marriage died a long time ago in his eyes and you’ve done your best to keep it alive by giving it a million shots of the defibrillator. It’s now the time to stop that and note the time of death.
I feel certain that your life will get better – not quickly but soon and you will begin to really appreciate you being your own person again. Without feeling that you have to audition for the part of your husband’s next wife.That’s got to be some sort of relief hasn’t it?
Loved your analogy of the defibrillator. Wow, that captures it. So glad I stopped trying to revive my dead marriage. Hopium sure blocks your ability to see the corpse. Cheater-free and feeling quite blissful. Coming up on one-year anniversary of divorce. What a difference a year makes!
He wants to destroy your self esteem to make sure you are too weak to move on. You need to build up your self-worth so that you can be free of this manipulative toxic mess. You can’t do that if you’re allowing him to continue to dump garbage in your head. You don’t need to figure out your life decisions that lead you to this point, you need to figure out when in life you decided it’s tolerable to have your needs go unmet. YOU DESERVE TO HAVE YOUR NEEDS MET. This whole affair is still about his centrality, me, me, me. Take your power back, shift perspective to yourself, & start healing your mind & heart. Find a therapist who specializes in trauma recovery post narcopath (narcissistic sociopath). Do your own research on narcissism and sociopaths (hint, there is no hope with these people). And be sure to read CL’s book, especially when you are feeling weak. It won’t be easy but it will be worth it. Best wishes.
This- he told me I was fat. I weighed 45 kilos. He damaged me so much I was unable to eat after that. His slags weighed twice as much. But I was of use?
Missed,
I can completely relate to your story. I have a 15 year marriage, wife had a 3-6 year affair, 2 kids about the same ages as yours, I was blamed for the affair, etc. My wife’s said that I’m not attractive enough for her too (but that I have “empirically attractive traits that somebody else might find attractive”). D-day was about 18 months ago and she’s mad that I’m not getting over it fast enough (“I’m not going to let you lord this over me for the rest of my life”) – even though she’s still hanging out with the AP to this day. How exactly are you supposed to get over something that isn’t over?
CL’s right, there is NO shot at reconciliation in a LTA. A ONS….maybe….just maybe. But not a LTA. Just think about how your husband (and my wife) had to lie and play pretend with us in order to pull that off, day after day, week after week, year after year. I think about it every day and it’s absolutely mind boggling. I would have had a mental breakdown years ago if I was my wife. It tires me out just thinking about it.
And that’s my fuel, just thinking about what it took for my wife to live that kind of double life for years. She would have to have absolutely no regard for me or anyone else (kids, OM’s wife). It’s not just a mistake, it’s a special kind of selfishness that normal people just can’t relate to. And the same is true for your husband. If you have any doubts about what you should do, just think about what it took inside of him for him to be able to do what he’s been doing.
I’ve been at the Not-OK Corral with “Hope” for about a year and a half. It’s been miserable. I filed for divorce last week and I think my wife will get served today. I think if you spend some time considering what your husband has done, what he’s capable of doing, and what he is still doing! — you’ll ultimately reach the same conclusion that I have. You know that you can never trust him ever again.
I wish you the best, as I know that it’s absolutely one of the most difficult decisions of your life.
Lost in 2015,
Congratulations on filing. I know how hard that was. When I filed I held it together until I got home and then sobbed for hours. It seemed like such a no-brainer decision, but it was very difficult.
As far as your wife making that comment about your looks, I just want to say, “That Fucking Bitch!” I am so very pissed off for you right now I just want to use the shovel I’ve been saving for my ex’s bald head and bash her on good time. I don’t care if you look like Brad Pitt or Frankenstein, someone needs to knock some manners in her. Not only did she fuck another dude, but she has the audacity to project her hateful and ugly-ass soulless opinions on the man she vowed to love, honor and cherish? You looked good enough for her when she married you so don’t believe a word that comes out of her stupid mouth. She’s not worthy of you. Not worthy of one more moment of your heartache. I’m ending my written rant my friend, but be rest assured, I’m still steamed. I’m leaving for target shooting in about 15 minutes, I’ll use this energy.
Congrats, Lost2015, on filing. What a horrible thing she said about your appearance. She sucks and she’s a liar, so she’s lying about your appearance, too.
Lost2015–Congratulations on filing & taking the first step to rid yourself of that odious woman.
Not attractive enough for her, eh? Attractive cheaters always remind me of that opening scene in Blue Velvet (about 1:30 into this clip) where there is a gorgeous, well-manicured lawn. Then the camera pans down to the cheater soul–the lawn’s underbelly, where there are hissing, disgusting bugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM975_Ld9S0
Tempest – LOVED “Blue Velevet”! Dennis Hopper at his finest! “What’s your name, neighbor?”
Cheaters remind me of the Jack Russell Terrier. The chump is down on the ground in pain, a toddler is nearby, and the JRT is bouncing up on him for more water (cake).
“empirically attractive traits that somebody else might find attractive” barf.
these Narcissists are all the same. That’s a disgusting comment. You are so better off w/o this cheater in your life.
@lost2015 good luck. Know that you made the right choice Finally! a year and a half and she is the same. You fight for those kids!
Trust that he sucks. You have just given yourself a life-time policy on that–insurance on the truth. We all wish you strength and courage though the next steps. You are mighty to make the decision. We are here for you.
Sorry—he told me he , “resented my weight gain.” not loss 3 years ago. I was an Earth shuddering size 6 three years ago and, now, I’ve whittled myself down to a size 0 in an effort during the past three years to “win” his love. I’d go eat something now but I’ve lost my appetite.
Missed Red Flags,
He’s an ass. I know this hurts like hell, but you did absolutely nothing to cause his failure as a human being. The best thing you can do is remain quietly under the radar while you contact a lawyer that specializes in family law. They can help you with a game plan. This is going to be hard, very hard, but there is life on the other side. Also get your support system in place and don’t tell anyone any thing unless you absolutely trust them (like a parent or sibling). Just let me repeat one more time, He’s an ass. You are mighty and can do this. Hugs
MissRedFlags, Your comment about your weight gain reminded me once again what crappy people they are! I was 120 when we got married (5’4″). I’d say I was “normal.” I gained a whopping ten pounds after two pregnancies. I went thru a stressful period where I dropped back down to about 118. Cheater said to me, “Well, now that you dropped a few pounds, I’ll have sex with you.” He made me feel like he thought I was the biggest pig in the world at 130 pounds. He withheld sex from me, because he said it was “easier and quicker to masturbate” instead of taking the time to have foreplay with me in order to “warm” me up, if you get what I’m saying. I cannot believe I put up with his crap. You deserve better than this and I’m happy you realize it! Listen to the advice about getting your ducks in the row, etc. (((Hugs)))) to you!
My XH the substance abuser told me (after months of no interest in sex or physical affection with me) that if I lost a few more pounds he “might be interested.” He thought that was a compliment. Should have left him then and there.
I lost 220 pound. It’s called divorce and the weight loss has improved my health tremendously.
My ex left me shortly after I gave birth. He thought that I was disgustingly overweight. Afterward I found out that he was having an affair. I went through the ringer.
I dropped 30 lbs. Rapidly. Not healthy in anyway. I could NOT eat. At all. It was one more precious thing that his cheating took from me. I could no longer breastfeed my baby. I lost my milk supply. I’ll never get that opportunity back. I…was…devistated…
BUT— my cheater ex thought that my suffering was awesome!!! He thought that I was finally looking great. I must really be taking care good of myself!
He said that NOW after my big transformation he’s afraid of losing me.
Now? He wants me now? He’s rethinking his choice to leave me for another woman now?
Cheater with his sad sausage voice referring to how much I’ve changed:”I’m afraid that I’ll miss out on it”
They’re all superficial psychos!
And, the cheater is missing out alright. Divorce is now final! Yay!
Good for you, Cut and Run, for not going back to him! I totally get what you are saying about not being able to eat. I would actually gag when I tried to eat something; only was able to drink whole milk in order to get some calories. Yay! about your divorce!! You are mighty!
Oh MRF….the ridiculous “list” of reasons they give for what they do (which oddly enough ALL point directly at you while THEY were boinking bimbos) such utter crap!!!
Please dont buy into any of these stupid excuses…just see what he has done –> lied, cheated, betrayed and then blamed you for your own pain.
I am a cautionary tale…I wreckonciled with my cheater for 7 years ..I dont think he cheated again but he deeply resented me and was ready to leave again when instead he dropped dead. Please dont lose any more of your life with a person who is THIS disordered
Missed Red Flags,
So sorry you have to endure this pain, really I am. You have been confronted to have to pick of the lesser of the 2 evils (to divorce or to not divorce). Your decision to divorce will be your first step to KNOWING that you are deserving of love and respect from someone other than your STBX.
As for the personal attack on your appearance, which left you devastated and killed your self-esteem, please KNOW that your size had nothing to do with his cheating. He cheated on you when you were a size 6 and he cheated on you when you were a size 0 – he is a fuckwit!
I remember when my now ex-wife put on some pounds especially after 3 pregnancies, and I can honestly say, that she looked so cute, she was glowing – I loved her no matter what – whether she was a size 1 or size 6. I didn’t cheat. Your STBX has proven to be a characterless, selfish, entitled and unempathetic ass clown who never has or never will have the capacity feel what love and marriage is really about.
“I can honestly say, that she looked so cute, she was glowing – I loved her no matter what – whether she was a size 1 or size 6.”
On behalf of pregnant and formerly pregnant women everywhere, I’m thankful for your saying this. You can’t imagine how many of us went through pregnancy with zero appreciation for those changes in our bodies. I had my one child late in life and it feels very sad that there wasn’t a good man loving me through it.
Thank you for being one of the good ones.
Jedi Hugs MissedRedFlags! You don’t need to tell the POS you are filing for divorce just yet. Line up your ducks, get copies of all the financial docs to a safe place. Make sure you have the rather large retainer lawyers require. You can get advice on the forums too. From what he’s done I’m betting he’s one of the cheaters who will fight a divorce and try to leave you with nothing. Expect the worse from him and plan accordingly. If he surprises you by being fair, great, but don’t count on it at all. You are mighty, you can do this.
I agree, do NOT count on him being fair in the divorce, they are NEVER fair!! Don’t be fooled if, when you tell him you want a divorce, and he seems ‘amicable’. It’s a show and it buys him time to figure out his next move, which is making sure you get nothing. You filing is a kick to their ego and they will fight to the death to get what they feel is theirs….and then some!!
To those with husbands who own businesses, do not do what I did and settle because the settlement seems ‘fair’, it’s not. My twatwaffle hid assets, retirement accounts, a house, a boat, a snowmobile, all of which I knew nothing about. in hindsight I wish I had hired a forensic accountant, had all the women he cheated on me with, deposed, and made him sell every last nut and goddamn bolt he had and split it down the middle. I’m in an equitable distribution state and I served my sentence with this jerk off for 15 years married. And I helped him build his business, in fact he had me stop working!! SMH
MissedRedflags, he screwed you over by cheating all these years, he will not turn in to Prince Charming with the divorce. Arm yourself with information, documentation , and if it goes to court, depose the bitch he’s been sleeping with. You are Might and you got this!!
Same… that’s my biggest regret… I didn’t go for a forensic accountant.
Ex hid everything. Disclosed nothing. Oh yes he took his own sweet time “choosing” between the Secretary & me.
All the while secretary was helping him plan my whole screw—–over.
I lost so much besides my marriage. I’m damn near broke. They’re living the high life. With her taking over the business that I helped my ex build.
Cruises, ATV’s, Property, Vehicles, Cash, Disney Dad, it all magically appeared after our divorce. Waiting to see what else they have to show for their hard earned destruction.
Now they both have My kids 40% of my life, (as a matter of fact my kids finally met OW today. I’m completely horrified by that shit sandwhich) the liars both have My savings, My in-laws, My church. Etc. Etc. Etc. They literally have My future everything. I was a chump until the very end.
Missedredflags- Don’t fall for his lies! Ever again.
Beware: One cheater actually said that he forced his chump to file (He just couldn’t do it. He just couldn’t choose yet, He had the sadz) He held on just long enough that his chump couldn’t take the dancing any longer.
He did this knowing full well that his strategy was that if the divorce was “chumps idea” then she’s more likely to agree to a “kind settlement” It worked. He won big time.
The way these cheaters work our heart & soul is sick. The entire time you’re being patient- YOUR cheater is more than likely preparing his future with schmoopie. He’ll NEVER have your best interest at heart. If you don’t stand up for yourself you’re toast. Get out.
Cut N Run, yours is a true horror story. But he didn’t get YOU, the real prize. He got a cheater OW and a bunch of stuff. You got a chance to build a life based on truth and self-respect. The harder you work on that, the faster your kids will see the truth about Disney Dad. It sucks but you’re on the better path. And thanks for the warning to others that getting out ahead of the cheater’s financial machinations is to their long-term advantage.
In one of my most pathetic moments – I was crying alone because Cheater EX made me feel guilty that “I would never forgive him” and my then 13 yr old daughter heard me and wanted to comfort me (yes I know, like I said pathetic moment) and I said “I’m supposed to forgive him” and you know what my daughter said? “You can still forgive him, but divorce him first”
Best thing I ever did, divorce his ass. He was one of those that believed that I would never divorce him, because he knew how much I loved him, and I did. But by divorcing him, I learned to love myself.
Wow re your daughter! Such wisdom in one so young! And wow re you MA!
Thank You! 🙂
This is a beautiful post all around. And your daughter is wise.
yes yes and yes
Yes–your daughter is indeed wise.
Thank you! 🙂 Her therapist described her as an Old Soul! Love this girl!
Dear Red Flag,
I have so much empathy and compassion for you. I know how…..gutted, raw, and disconnected you feel. My cockroach had a match profile as well. This was in the midst of being “in love”, SMOKING HOT sex and him calling me 10-15 times a day. How do we make sense of it?
Pay close attention to CL’s analysis about how YOU would feel if you were living the life your Maggot Husband is. Imagine having so little concern for truth and honesty that you could live with such duplicity…..such pathological DAILY lying…right to your fucking face. Could you do it?
Your husband can. That is his character. He lives in lies, darkness, and betrayal, and it causes him no more concern than us removing our makeup at night. AND HE THINKS YOU ARE WRONG. He blames you. Think about that for a while. Metaphorically, he is beating you and then scolding you for bleeding on the rug.
It is so hard to believe that someone we love is evil. That our feelings are no more to them than 3 day old McDonalds to them, rotting in a garbage can.
I think that is why we cling to hope. Because we loved them. And they do not love us back.
But…here is what has helped me. Remember, you did nothing wrong to believe in love. YOU ARE NORMAL.
You have feelings and attachment…your synapses are firing, as CL aptly stated.
You got tangled up with a person who is not constricted by any moral stop signs. Everywhere he looks, he sees a green light….whatever makes him happy, he is going for it.
You cannot trust this person with your life. You cannot protect your heart from such *RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR YOUR WELL BEING*
HE IS AS DANGEROUS AS A RATTLESNAKE CORNERED AND READY TO STRIKE.
Do you feel sick right now? Imagine if you stay with him, and you are 85 and he has done this to you FOR DECADES and this will be your life story? This brief time we have here, wasted on a cheating lying maggot?
I know, for certain, that CL’s advice about saving your own life is right on the money.
He will not change. He does not care about you. You have to escape.
Go see a physician and see if you can get some chemical help to get through the initial no contact ,if you don’t think you can do it. IT IS TREMENDOUSLY HARD. Just warning you…it is a death. You have to grieve. I told my GP and he was incredibly helpful prescribing an anti depressant and sedative. Your brain has been traumatized, and you may need some help with the chemical tricks your mind can play. You will feel panicked and want to scurry back to him at times. It could be the difference between going back and STAYING MIGHTY.
YOU CAN DO IT! (((HUGS AND KISSES)))
Just act and the feelings will follow.
SabineSavoy, I LOVE WHAT YOU WROTE!!! EXCELLENT!!! 🙂
Thank you so much! This board is the main thing keeping me Maggot Free. I am 22 days no contact after many many failed attempted and….11 changed phone numbers. I always gave in.
It has helped he has stopped trying, as of a week ago. I imagine he is already living with some meth whore. That gets me. way down deep….but I just read this website and HOLD ON.
I was hiking last weekend and there was a rattlesnake just off the trail. It buzzed its rattle and everyone on the trail gave it a lot of room and left it alone. No one was hurt. Honest creatures, rattlesnakes. Very different from cheaters!
You are right! I hate to insult an animal and compare to a cheater. Snakes just want to be left alone. Dangerous as a vat of anthrax.
Also Missed Red Flags:
Don’t worry about your weight. Cheating has NOTHING to do with looks, yours, theirs or the people who cheat with them.
When I saw the woman the Maggot was with…(this is petty) but I was relieved in a sense. She was repulsive. It was bizarre. He was just saying that to hurt you and keep you down.
Sociopathic narcissists love to use comments about our looks to hit our self-esteem at the core, even better if they can take a jab at a physical trait you hadn’t previously been insecure about. Mine did that. His predecessor (I am a slow learner) loved to tell me that my body would be “perfect” if I just lost five pounds.
I was a size four at the time, finally content with my body after years of struggling with an eating disorder (which of course he knew about) and trying to maintain a size zero. These people are pure evil, please listen to CL and the other posters and get your divorce on ASAP.
Same? But once I left I realised I was beautiful?
I will NEVER forget, in the depth of despair, when I realized the extent of the 3 yr affair.
When I found her panties in our marital bedd (and even washed them before I realized-ack!), I went absolutely Ape-Shit on his medieval ass.
He should never have fucked with me.
He told me suddenly, I looked Old.
Now, that hurt, but I was really really angry….and I’m looking at him at the same time and he looked super old himself, trying to defend himself.
His hair, like electricity hit it.
I have NEVER hit below the belt, and to call your wife OLD when she is younger than you, and takes aim at your weakness while you’re angry….well, it’s just a low-blow and I’d never lower myself to say anything like that to anybody.
Good luck asshole in finding somebody that doesn’t look old when they have sheer anger on their face after you cheated, lied, betrayed and stole a TON of assets before I caught your ass. I hear he’s not doing so well….
Other Kat,
I must have been engaged to your Freak’s brother from another mother.
You wrote: Sociopathic narcissists love to use comments about our looks to hit our self-esteem at the core, even better if they can take a jab at a physical trait you hadn’t previously been insecure about
Maggot said a few days, after I had playfully flashed him out in the garage (raising my shirt)
“My baby’s got itty bitty titties.”…..???? I just stood there…I was paralyzed.
I don’t. I did not think I did. I remember all the air leaving my lungs. I thought…all the times he has seen me in bed..he had these critical thoughts of my body?
When I melted down, HE BECOME DEPRESSED. THEN ANGRY
“I never say the right thing. I don’t know why I said it. They are perfect for YOUR BODY.”
But he said it. I HAD NEVER EVER NEVER had those thoughts before. I thought my breasts were good.
No man has ever said something so disparaging about my body before.
It may sound insignificant, but I never took off my shirt or nightgown around him again.
What a prince!!! And I still turn it over and over in my mind…Did he say that just to be cruel?
YES.
I put on quite a bit of weight over years of IVF treatments, anti-depressants, foot surgery (no walking!) and an endless parade of back problems. Oh, and abrupt menopause due to the removal of a tumor. Good times!
Crapweasel’s response was to say to me, “you are so fat I can’t bring myself to touch you. You’re disgusting.”
I was large, but not … well … no buts, here. Nobody, under any circumstances, deserves to have a remark like that addressed to them. Ever.
Even though I understand intellectually that it really reflects so terribly badly on what a horrible person he is, I don’t know if I will ever be able to overcome the shame and the pain that this caused me.
This in a nutshell is what I think of cheaters: people who cause you to feel irrevocably damaged, worthless, crummy. Every moment of every day. I’m fighting it, but oh, boy.
Monsters, they are monsters.
You wrote:
“This in a nutshell is what I think of cheaters: people who cause you to feel irrevocably damaged, worthless, crummy. Every moment of every day. I’m fighting it, but oh, boy.”
That is better than I could say it. Let’s say you ballooned to 700 lbs. Like the poor people that they have to remove walls for to get them out for medical treatment. If someone loved you, they would not say something so breath takingly cruel. You might make healthy suggestions, provide motivation, but would never say something so horrible.
And who are they? Are they Viggo Mortensen?
The Maggot’s arrogance always shocked me. He had NO SELF AWARENESS. As he drug use escalated, he looked worse- haggard, thin, dirty. But he strutted his stuff.
Because I am not a sociopath, I never said anything but would marvel at this….sheer cockiness. HE ACTS LIKE HE IS A STUD. He looks like a boy starving. (Meth addicts do not eat).
It goes back to their fundamental nature: They are just different. They are the scorpion on the little frog’s back, stinging him out of sheer meanness…because it is THEIR NATURE.
NfV, I don’t know how much you weigh and I don’t care. I think our society is INSANE over weight. Extremely thin women (like Jolie-Pitt) actually repulse me.
But know this: Do not listen to him. You can overcome the shame because you have to think of his words as the ramblings of an insane person, lying in his own waste, babbling under a park bench, eating booger and giggling at the trash can. If you weighed 100 lbs, he would find some other reason to disparage you.
When Maggot told me I had “itty bitty titties”….I wear a D Cup! When I wear a bra (I hate them.) It was just to hurt me….to gut me. And it worked. I understand.
After that, when I would see him, I would instinctively cross my arms over my chest when we would talk.
THEIR WORDS HAVE NO BASIS IN TRUTH.
He is a disordered freak who feels better when you feel bad. I learned this the hard way, too.
I hope you have no contact with him, but if you have to, you should find a way to work in:
I admire the way you have overcome having a penis so small…like a runt Vienna Sausage! You have really accepted it and made it work for you. Amazing!
I know that is petty, but let me tell you- it has the desired effect.
Sabine,
You are on a roll and amazing.
I’m right there with you. I would have never told him that I didn’t like kissing him because his breath smelled like a stagnate pond or he kissed like a carp. I never would have told him that I found his sloth-like behavior so frustrating that I wanted to hit him over the head with a shovel to see ANY reaction. I never would have said that sex that lasts for only a minute or two with a man who could not sustain a full erection left me extremely dissatisfied and just one more damn job he left undone that I had to finish myself.
Nope. Never said any of those things because I’m just too damn sweet. ?
SabineSavoy–I’m sorry, and you were so right to interpret that comment as a horrible, cruel statement.
I think serial cheaters are engaged in a constant comparison of their partner to their affair partners. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. My X actually said to his previous wife after a session of sex, “Why are you so bad?” I know there were constant comparisons of my performance to his fuckbuddies after I had suffered from a decade of insidious criticism and emotional abuse (and thus gone from gung-ho about sex to tepid because I no longer felt emotionally safe with him). I’m sure my X then used that as further justification for cheating.
The biggest eye opener in this whole infidelity debacle has been that there are people who appear normal, but have no intention of even trying to be kind or fair.
They say things to fill airspace and to get a rise out of anyone. Mine wanted me to get a boob job; I told him “sure, as long as YOU pay for it”. He never did so I never did, which is fine, I’m happy with what God made in me.
Try EMDR if you haven’t already. It may help you let go of some of the terrible shit this clown said or did to you.
And stay happy within your own skin. Rest assured that down the road, after some healing, there is a person out there who will cup you in his hands and almost cry at how beautiful you are.
Me too! It is a beautiful and kind response! Thank you, Lucky! I was a bit embarrassed after I wrote it, but it happened. I have NEVER met someone who said such cruel things as he did. And he always kept that…Who me? Awww …shucks demeanor. Like was Andy Griffith or something. (Andy Griffith on Meth).
And stay happy within your own skin. Rest assured that down the road, after some healing, there is a person out there who will cup you in his hands and almost cry at how beautiful you are.
This made me cry.
So sorry, Missed. As you move forward without this fuckwit, you’ll probably have some moments of doubt. When you do, I want you to say to yourself, “He wanted to see what else was out there.” What a horrible thing to say to someone who thinks they are in a committed, monogamous, loving relationship. (By the way, my ex’s line was, “You and the kids aren’t enough.”)
You are doing awesome Enchanted! It’s ok to have moments of doubt, we all have those. The important thing is that you see that they never change. And over time, you see that their tears and pleas are just crocodile tears. Meaning you see through their fake acts, fake gifts, and their shit, and that’s empowering. So good for you for going NC. For me, reading the posts here every day gives me strength and empowers me to see right through these cheaters and how they operate the same way. These cheaters may fool one person, but they can’t fool an entire chump nation!! Love live this board.
They’re very good at hoovering their kibble and cake sources back into their orbit once we begin to break free. That’s why it’s important to read about these character disorders to get an idea of the range of possibilities. I never had to go “No contact” because Jackass did the full discard with me–blaming me for the end of the relationship because I “accused” him. So stupid of me to speak up when I caught him; I should have just let him smirk and keep my money and wait around for a year or two or ten for him to sniff around for an old kibble supply. Anyone struggling with whether the cheater has “remorse” or has “changed” should re-read CL’s brilliant take on fake remorse (linked on the main page) and read everything on Dr. Simon’s site on character disorder. Knowledge is power.
“Don’t even get me started about how in the beginning of this hell, he wanted me to go “polyamory” so he could figure out who he really loved.”
WTF? who he really loved? Who does he think he is, the next messiah that you’d sit there in a holding pattern while he figured out who he really loved? The sun doesn’t shine through his ass and I’d make it easier for him and say see ya later asshole. I’m so glad you said no. He’s really stupid to have said that, because no one in their right mind would stay with such a person after that comment. He deserved to get laughed in the face and dumped. That’s like my ex who said: “I’m not having sex with other women, because you’re not *letting* me”. You know what I did, I instantaneously dumped him and told him to go fuck whoever he wanted, that I wasn’t restricting him. He was so sure I’d stay after he made that statement to me, since I had always been so nice to him and it inflated his ego to think he’s so wonderful. Not only I called him on it, but put him through hell after that. You treat me like shit, you will pay for it. I will make sure of that.
Dear Enchanted, you are not an idiot. I was one, I said yes to his polyamory bullshit. Even the MC told him it wasn’t polyamory because it happened before I had knowledge. I was so beaten down by him and his family. As he told me as he was leaving, ” you just kept rolling over and exposing your belly like the bitch dog you are”.
It’s taken me almost 3 years to regain my sanity and I’m still not fully there in self esteem….but getting stronger every day. I was like you, the fixer, healer, caretaker. Funny, how I didn’t see that when I needed, I was supposed to be so strong that I didn’t need help and none was given. Keep plugging away, we deserve so much better than what we were lead to believe we deserved.
You are not an idiot. You are a chump like us. Stay here with us and CL EVERY DAY!! We are here for you!!! 🙂
You have to stop: you’re not an idiot. And you weren’t one, either. This guy did all he could to deceive you. How is an honest person supposed to see through all the lies? There were and are TOO MANY.
You’re not an idiot. Please delete that word from your thinking; you don’t deserve more punishing, especially from your own dear You.
That is spot on. YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT. You were tangling with a monster.
I was charmed by dog food. Gifts muddy the waters. It is one of their tools to keep us hooked.
We did not know what they were until their masks slipped. He was a pod person. You were a good person who wanted attachment, love and fidelity.
Even if it was the Hope Diamond, sitting on a truckload of Hermes bags, he would still be a cheater maggot.
For a normal person, your love does make things better. But for a disordered fuckwit, nothing will make it better.
Wow I’m actually leaving a comment. I’ve been much of a voyeur on this site and others. This letter and your response really hit home. I consider myself a fairly intelligent woman (Master’s degree & Licensed Social Worker) and yet I also looked for “hope” when my husband’s (of over 16 years) secret life was revealed. I wanted desperately to believe the 25 years I invested in him, in us and our family was not a mirage but the truth is the role I thought he played in it was. Facing and accepting that truth took far too many reality slaps to the face but I am thankful I finally woke up and decided to walk away for good. It took a while for my emotional IQ to catch up to the cognitive IQ but the point of agreement between the two was the need for respect, which was clearly lacking. It seems I was willing to contend with his lack of respect for me until that began to infringe upon the ability for me to respect myself. James Baldwin in The Evidence of Things Not Seen says that in order to accept a false reality one must “will themselves blind”. In choosing to hold on to the “hope” of the husband’s empty promises and self-serving statements I was willing myself blind to his actions which were speaking volumes. This situation has humbled me in many ways and whereas before I might of viewed a woman in a similar situation as a weak, dumb b!+(# I now empathize with the amount of strength it takes to choose to invest in yourself and walk away from what you thought to be love. Everyone has to come to their own realization in their own time but when that a-ha moment happens, it is glorious. All the best!
Midlife Wife,
Welcome. I am so glad you posted that. It was much needed. It’s hard sometimes to articulate honest emotion until you realize that others feel the exact same way and are grateful to have someone say it so well.
Annie thanks for the welcome! Still more of a voyeur 🙂 Great to know I am not alone though I wish no one ever had to go through these emotions.
Welcome, Midlife Wife! You said, “I wanted desperately to believe the 25 years I invested in him, in us and our family was not a mirage but the truth is the role I thought he played in it was. Facing and accepting that truth took far too many reality slaps to the face but I am thankful I finally woke up…….” Yeah, the mirage. I’ve stated it as that, too. I believed all his lies, so I believed in the mirage. Once I woke-up and accepted most of his words as lies, the truth of our marriage shown thru. I started looking at his ACTIONS. His daily actions said he didn’t give a fuck about me or our marriage or the family we had together. Thanks for writing today. 🙂
Thanks Martha! I’m still learning to come to terms with the “didn’t give a fuck about me or our marriage or the family we had together”. It’s hard, especially being someone to whom family means everything. His lessening involvement with our teenage son is killing me but I no longer try to prompt him to get involved. Adjusting to the new normal is definitely a work in progress. Thank you for the support!