Dear Chump Lady, She hated my poem
Dear Chump Lady,
I am a male chump. My marriage went to shit after my wife went through a midlife crisis empty nest menopausal revisit teenage youth selfish narcissistic period. She reconnected with an old boyfriend on facebook and ended up fucking him. Though still working on reconciliation, I really appreciate your site, your perspective and that of chump nation. It’s a reality check, keeping the fog cleared.
Around the peak of our marriage crisis, after an initial discovery of inappropriate communications (sexting). I could sense more blame-shifting, demonizing, dehumanizing and revising history to make our marriage sound terrible. All the usual shit sandwiches the cheater throws at us to post-justify their depravity. I could see I was being made a villain.
I decided to put my thoughts into a poem. It’s not real lofty and it doesn’t rhyme, but expressed well how I felt about what I was experiencing. I read it in a joint counseling session. It pissed her off tremendously! She hated it. I loved it! I could tell it hit a chord. The only response she could muster was an evil, hateful stare. Afterward she had a meltdown but I stood by it.
This was a couple years ago but I ran across it today cleaning up some files. I thought I’d share it with you. If you think it helpful, feel free to use it in any way you’d like. And please don’t totally abandon us reconcilers. Even though your target audience are those who leave their cheater, many many of us who don’t (or haven’t yet) still appreciate and benefit from your good work.
I am not the Villain
I am not the villain, I am a good guy
I am not the enemy, I am an ally
I am not the foe, I am a friend
I am not the opponent, I am a teammate and partner
I am not the problem, I can be part of the solution
I am not the cause of all ills, I can be part of the cure
I am not evil, I try to be Christian and moral
I am not a liar, I am honest and sincere
I am not malicious, I try to protect us from harm
I am not conniving, I try to be sincere and communicate objectives and motivations
I am not deceitful, I work hard to be of solid integrity
I am not hurtful, I try to be helpful
I do not push you down, I try to be there to help catch you when you fall
I am not controlling, I try to help establish safe boundaries and influence or steer in a positive direction
I do not keep significant secrets, I try to be open and share thoughts and feelings with you my partner
I do not act in spite, or in revenge or to punish, I try to act in kindness and treat others as I would be treated.
I am not pessimistic, I try to be realistic but optimistic with hope and faith
I am not perfect, I can always be better and do better
I am not hateful, I love you
I am not the villain, I am a good guy.
Untold
Dear Untold,
And your wife’s reaction to this was….to lose her shit?
All my beautiful, beautiful blameshifitng! AiiiGH! You cursed Brat! I’m meLLLTttting!
What did you internalize after that episode? Don’t write poetry? Don’t try to tell your wife how you feel? “I am a good guy” — hate me anyway?
I’m sorry for saying this Untold, but I don’t think you learned much. How do I know? Well, like you, I enjoy writing. So I deconstructed your letter.
I am a male chump. My marriage went to shit after my wife went through a midlife crisis empty nest menopausal revisit teenage youth selfish narcissistic period. She reconnected with an old boyfriend on facebook and ended up fucking him.
Here are my edits.
I am a male chump. My marriage went to shit after my wife went through a midlife crisis empty nest menopausal revisit teenage youth selfish narcissistic period. She reconnected with fucked an old boyfriend on facebook and ended up fucking him.
Your marriage went to shit because your wife fucked another man.
Not because of a “midlife crisis.” That’s bullshit.
Not because of menopause. Plenty of women not having periods are perfectly faithful and sexual with their partners.
Not because of an empty nest. Teenagers leaving home is a cause for celebration. (No more wet towels on the floor! Goodbye locker room stench! Hello cheaper grocery bills!) It does not compel people to trawl for exes. (Shop for two-bedroom apartments and downsize? Throw off the oppressive bonds of the School Calendar? Trot around the house half-naked? YES.)
Not because of Facebook. Old boyfriends and girlfriends are out there. Oh hey, I’m not looking for them! Oh hey, I might be friends with them and I don’t fuck them! See how that works?
Not because of revisiting “teenage youth.” That’s impossible. There’s no back-to-the-future DeLorean to transport us to 1984. We don’t get our youth back. We get gray hair, and saggy asses, and AARP memberships. And that’s okay. The people who don’t get the “age gracefully” memo are embarrassing. They’re that dude in the toupee cruising girls his daughter’s age. (Eww.) They’re that woman who looks like a Desperate Housewives extra. People who think they can hang on to youth are creepy… not “youthful.”
Untold, you did get one part right — selfish and narcissistic. Strip away all the qualifiers and just leave it there. You have a selfish and narcissistic wife who fucked an old boyfriend because she could. And then wasn’t one bit sorry about it.
Who is she now? You don’t tell us.
Who you are is a guy who’s still spackling. (Midlife crisis? Really dude?) You’re doing that very chumpy thing of meeting abuse with vulnerability. Here’s a POEM! With my FEELINGS! See how sensitive and caring I am? Now my decency will impress you and compel you to be kind to me!
That never works, Untold. Your decency, kindness, and vulnerability just compel her to see you as a chump. I know in that poem you’re trying to assert yourself, tell her that you’re not the villain she painted you as.
But as long as this is just a contest of words, and not actions (read CONSEQUENCES), she can tune you out. If explaining basic decency (I’m not an enemy!) to your wife with a 20-verse poem doesn’t work, I don’t know, try hand puppets? Interpretative dance? Bottom line is, Untold, you shouldn’t have to explain basic decency to your partner.
She gives your efforts a “hateful stare”? Take your poetry slam elsewhere.
Untold, you sound wonderful. There are LOTS of women out here that would truly appreciate you, your decency and your beautiful poem.
This is the hardest thing. That we invested our all in someone who just …. doesn’t care.
What is happening now?
Untold
The peak of your marriage crisis? If you were in a leaky row boat with your wife a mile from shore and you lost your paddle it would be a crisis. You would work together repairing the leak, signaling for help, and pull together to survive.
It wasn’t really like that now was it? She left you in the boat, swam to shore, knowing you couldn’t swim. She didn’t give a shit. Why not write a poem about the pain, her shitty attributes, the ease with which she fucked some guy while you were thinking about what a “good guy” you were. Ok so you got dragged to shore and were saved. You patched the boat named it Forgiveness.
By your poem I assume your very confident in yourself. Who wouldn’t be faithful? A cheater
Abandoning reconcilers? We aren’t the ones who left you to drown.
There are many “good” websites for reconcilers…. This isn’t one of them.
Good analogy Donna. Later after learning of the affair, I did remind her of her shitty behavior and detailed how she caused me and our family great pain. She did listen. That was a requirement I had to attempt repair.
Moving liquid I’m sorry you feel that way. IMO this site is extremely helpful for all chumps to understand the distorted behavior, make informed decisions, and just know they are not alone. A lot of good people get chumped.
PS I, too, used to try to explain basic decency to my spouse.
Now I truly believe that he knew damn well how he should treat me, he just didn’t have enough respect and didn’t want to. And I was so chumpy, I went along with that (hoping and wishing he would change).
Its not that they don’t see, its that they disagree! Took me a long time to understand Dr George Simon’s point.
I saw many similar dysfunctions. Many “I don’t know” responses, illogical and circular arguments. A simple disagreement escalates as they generalize with always and never, then go in a totally irrelevant direction. Most irritating to me was the mind reading – she knew what I thought, how I felt, what I would do and why, then argue against that. How many times I said “don’t put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. I can speak for myself just fine. Now stick to the subject and listen to me”. The contempt was the worst part. If it didn’t stop I could not go on. Gottman got that right.
Thank you Patsy. Update below. You’re right – they just don’t care. At that time in the disordered state she didn’t. Fortunately that changed later.
In the very early days, my ex decided that he wanted to reconcile. My terms: No sex with other women, particularly his employee girlfriend to whom he professed his undying love and commitment after a mere 4 weeks of affairing it up or whatever.
His response: He didn’t want to put all of his energy into making changes and repairing the damage, because it might not work. We might still get divorced, and he put all the work in without a guarantee.
Since I had already filed for divorce a few weeks before, I asked him, to be clear, that he wanted to reconcile and work on the marriage, but he wanted to keep his girlfriend on the side.
I gave my ex husband a thumbs up and a smile and said, “Ok, divorce is still on. Thanks!”
These whack-a-doo cheaters are just not wired the same way that normal people are wired.
Kelli, the two thumbs up and smile divorce announcement is the best thing ever.
So impressed.
Kelli, when I found out, said to him, what are you going to do? He said, I don’t know. I asked, well, when do you think you will know. He said, I don’t know. I said guess. Well, he said, I’ll know after I get back from Rhode Island after the 4th of July. *I* said, let me help you decide….get the f*** out . He said Ill move my stuff out this week. I said, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you’ll get the f*** out of bed and move out today! F****** done deal. So, I helped him move out……I tossed his crap in garbage bags, tossed them into the garage and went and had my hair done. Gonna wash that man right outta my hair. True story! Not to say, I wasn’t in agonizing pain, I was. But, I was sooooo over his disrespect, distain, lies, BS…..go play house with your howorker with 2 kids, looking to you as a sugar daddy. What she doesn’t know, is that all the toys he has is because of me. He is a cheapskate! So, if she’s looking for a sugar daddy, she’s going to be really disappointed. ANDm he’s going to really disappointed when all of her attention isn’t on his sorry narc ass because if she has two small children, hopefully she pays SOME attention to them, which takes it away from him! Thanks for letting me share.
Hey Good on you!
In my case it took him a bloody month to get out – and that was with constant pressure from me asking if he had applied for any rental properties.
Share on, Freefrom……, Share on!
And, in turn, receive insight, wisdom, encouragement and strength!
Yes, I got this, too. He wanted to “hedge his bets”, so wouldn’t get rid of AP.
But I love your thumbs up and saying, “divorce is still on!” That’s the best!!
Yep. I got “if this doesn’t work out I want to pursue a relationship with her”. Scary and insane how alike they are.
Mine said that it would have taken ‘so much strength’ to be honest and leave me BEFORE getting involved with slunt #2. (You have to imagine the drama in his voice and the rolled eyes – who could POSSIBLY expect such super-human strength from anyone?????) Because, what if he left me and then she wouldn’t have him????
Oh, and he said this in the context of trying to cheat on her, with me, Because, you know, it would have taken ‘so much strength’ to break up with her without yet knowing whether I’d take him back.
Just not wired the same way, truly.
It’s like explaining back sass to a young child. They’re not gonna get WHY they shouldn’t do it on an emotional level (cause it’s disrespectful, hurts others, etc.) they just need to hear “Because I said so and that’s the rule.” However, we just cant help explaining it to them anyways.
Yep, spent about a nano second explaining decency but swiftly released it was pointless. What adult needs this shit spelled out for them? And if they do do you really want to be with them? they’re emotionally stunted and generally fucked up. Run, don’t walk.
Indeed CW was acting like a rebellious teen. Counselors even told me I had the tough job of acting like her father in some ways to manage it. WTF!
Exactly right Nord, everything about X-hole that he got pissed at and called me angry or “negative” for bringing up was shit that ANY (even half assed) adult should know without being told. Run, don’t walk….hell to the yes!
It’s immaturity, like talking to a child wanting there way. I always felt like the parent ugh.
Yes. Everything about this.
Ditto here with sharing thoughts & feelings. And wishing / hoping he would change. {{{{{HUGS to Scott!}}}}}
I finally ‘got it’ and stopped. And left. Took all my good qualities, thoughts and feelings and share them only with true friends & loyal family.
As is true with all narcissistic cheaters, they just take any nfo you share and use it to bludgeon you further.
Precious Untold, please, take all your good qualities and escape the horror your spouse has visited upon your precious soul! CL and the Nation have your back!
Forge on, all………..
And that hoping and wishing they will change is almost the worst part of being cheated on. I hoped for years and years, but everyday it got worse and worse. I think that is where chumps lose it – a sinking ship of hope for the reboot of a broken marriage.
Quote from my husband. “Why am I always the one who has to change? You don’t love me. You love some other version of me that you want me to be.” So am I supposed to just be ok with infidelity? you can’t even make logical sense of of these types of conversations.
I got this, along with “you never apologize!”
I honestly sat there dumbfounded at this. He further explained that I never say sorry during our fights. The fights that had to do with his cheating.
I replied “for what???” And he scoffed at this. Apparently, we were equally at fault in our fights. The topic was irrelevant.
Meh is definitely thinking about this, shaking my head, and laughing.
Whoa! It’s like we were married to the same man. “If you just would have said you were sorry (then I wouldn’t have fucked my best friend’s wife). On the flip side, STBX said he was “sorry” all the time, including after he screwed someone in the parking lot while we were out with friends. My bad I thought it was better to actually BE sorry and make amends than to SAY sorry and continue hurtful behavior.
Oh! I got that too, that I loved someone he wasn’t. Yes, the faithful version I thought I married! He was wiling to lie to keep me believing while he was having chatroom sex…
He absolutely was expected to change. He found that scary (ok…), burdensome and, get this, UNFAIR.
He didn’t stop avoiding and denying long enough to own how unfair his cheating me out of love, time, attention, affection and passion was UNFAIR. And done in secret where I had no understanding.
Rather than be grateful that I loved the good parts of him that were in there, and viewed him as someone who could regain integrity … he resented that I expected him to mature.
Sigh.
Totally got that one too. It’s so strange how everybody says the same stuff. I felt really guilty about it too so that makes me feel better!!’
I would describe the end of my 28 year marriage exactly the same way. Mine was trawling for old high school boyfriends 2 years prior to empty-nest-hood. She knew her plan and executed on it (having been a cheater all of our marriage). This is premeditated! Your wife and mine know what they are doing, and are fine with it. They don’t care about us, period. Mine only cares about money and attention. I’m grateful for Chump Lady and Chump Nation for opening my eyes to who she really is and stopping my “pick-me dance” after only a month (it was embarrassing 🙂 I can only say, stay for convenience, but true love is not there. Good luck to you Untold.
It’s hard to face when you’ve been a victim of love fraud and financial fraud especially after 36 years and 2 kids investment in a make pretend life! If mine had done what he did to me to anyone else he would be serving time in prison! The marriage license allowed him to do it legally and get away with it Scot free! Marriage laws need to be reformed or better yet abolished as courts do not abide by the rules!
I didn’t write a poem but I said many of the things in the poem to my X and on top of that I did everything I could think of to please him. His response was nasty, sarcastic remarks, told me I was pathetic, dirty looks, laughed in my face, and walking out. Looking back he was right I was pathetic. Made dinner for him overnight that he didn’t eat. He’d walk out take out son and sometimes neighbors out to dinner but that wasn’t enough to stop me from trying to reason with him again the following day. I danced every dance, into exhaustion.
X did what he wanted to do without regard for me, our son, our family, they don’t care about anyone other than themselves. It’s still floors me that I was married to an imposter. He is nothing like who I thought he was. I thought we were a team, he was supposed to be my best friend.
Like you Gail he did things to me that anyone else would do he would be serving time in prison, being married he was able to get away with everything. It was all so one sided and unfair, cruel. Marriage laws and family court attorneys need to be revamped. Judges don’t follow rules, I learned the hard way that honesty doesn’t hold up in the court room, bullshit lies do. Opened my eyes to what really goes on in our justice system.
Foolishly I thought he would eventually come to his senses and “snap out of it,” midlife crisis maybe, or even as someone said abducted by aliens. In my mind I thought, all I needed to do was be patient.., I finally came around.
Yes, they’re fully aware of what they’re doing. As Chumps we can’t imagine anyone in their right frame of mind being so cruel. Little did I know, this was only the beginning and the worst was yet to come. Unbelievable to me that anyone would be so heartless, the person I thought I married couldn’t do such things.
Exactly this above. It hard to believe the one you’ve been married to so long could actually behave that way. Sometimes still hard to believe when it’s smacking you in the face!
I agree. I had to read & re-read all the dirtiness & go over every detail – to constantly remind myself that this is REAL.
every night not overnight (spellcheck)
I couldn’t agree more,Marked711, that it is intentional, premeditated and deliberate behavior by the cheater. Breaking out of the pick-me-dance cycle is not easy, but the long, lost and whole version of yourself waiting for you at the end of that horrifically painful and lonely journey is so incredibly worth it! My ex-wife displayed the same kind of cruelty, selfishness and narcissistic rage as Untold’s and others on here. Untold, unless you have truly encountered a mythical, rainbow-shitting unicorn in your wife, I encourage you to learn from your chumpiness, look objectively at the abusive woman you’re still trying to defend, and break free from the soul-crushing, demeaning mirage of marriage you’re clinging to. Often times the hardest part of cutting free is realizing you’re holding on to what you hope your marriage could be, rather than what your marriage actually is (and is actually capable of becoming). Good luck
Chuck, Mark, Lost – sounds like our wives read much of the same playbook. How does that happen after 20+ years? In my case it was not that way the whole marriage, just over a 3 year period . The hard part is most days my marriage is pretty good now. She can be very sweet and loving. Then one rub in the wrong direction can turn her into a rabid bitch foaming with contempt. That’s followed by 1-2 days of her being mostly silent, then recovery.
It’s not a unicorn situation, but not past my limits yet.
Untold, don’t you understand that the reason things are good and lovely at the moment is because you are not challenging her?!! As soon as you challenge her or remind her of the pain you have felt – she gets angry. That just shows her true character!! She STILL doesn’t want to take responsibility, & bow her head in shame. Do you REALLY want to be with someone like that? Have you not read the post on Genuine Imitation Remorse??
I’ve been in exactly the same boat!
Untold, I spackled heavily for most of the time. She was much more covert than your wife seems to be. And we have two daughters who she does love as well as she can. In the end when she had lined up a richer old high school boyfriend, she had no reason to hide it. She let her mask fall away (but only for me). I saw the true monster inside. She had no soul and never did, but she faked it well. My ultimate take away is that as soon as they have no use for you, they abandon you as if you never existed. I was just a useful source of income to raise our girls, provide for her to be a stay at home mom the whole time, have good food and shelter in a great school district, and go on wonderful vacations all over the world. She took half of everything and is getting $1100/mo from me for life (until I retire). And moved immediately to Austin, TX to be with her “shit for brains” AP. As soon as my eyes were opened by CL and this blog, I took steps to leave my cheater. It was a complete deal breaker for me and she knew it. I haven’t heard a peep from her since she left.
My story is almost exactly the same as your’s. 28 years and knowing exactly what she was dong. I did the pick me dance for about 8 months. However, I didn’t know about the affair until the date of separation. We split up when she finally admitted to it. And I still tried for about a month to reconcile. Luckily, I caught her in another lie and that was it for me. I knew we were done. Realized she was a cheater, liar, and bum. Found CL soon after and it’s helped me a ton in navigating the end of the marriage. It’s also helpful and scary at how many people have gone through almost the same exact s**t!
Yes! Exactly the same story. They all work from the same script. It is SCARY!
I don’t think there is a post that I’ve missed… including this one. All I have to say is that I love you Chump Lady.
I used to think that if I explained it in terms he’d understand that he would be like “OMGee I hurt her, I get it, I messed up”….ahhhh….but it was me that didn’t understand. I could have said it in 20 different languages – a thousand different ways and his response would have been the same: “me me me”.
I learned not-so-quickly that my pain was for me alone. If he wanted in on it–to be a helper–the onus was on him to make that happen. Turns out we are somewhat hard wired to want others to feel our pain. I am so thankful for the many loving people I have around me that are happy to feel my pain with me, even when my partner wasn’t willing.
I wonder if that is a conscious choice on their part, or if they are in some way incapable of being empathetic with those closest to them?
My cheater was empathetic with victims from nightly news stories and current events, with pets that suffered, and with some of her extended family members, but simply was not capable of experiencing empathy for me.
I think they are hard-wired to avoid or discount or ignore anything that would make them out to be the bad-guy, so if my suffering was due to her actions, that would make her the bad guy, so her built in self-defense mechanisms were so strong, she automatically unconsciously ignored my pain and was not capable of being influenced by it.
I suppose my thoughts contradict what Dr. Simon says “Its not that they don’t see, its that they disagree!” so maybe I am simply wrong, and she simply chose not to have empathy for me, because she disagrees that I am suffering due to her infidelity and narcissism and selfishness.
Ditto’s on the lack of empathy. I could not believe her apparent empathy for others – friends, family, etc.. But none for me. I would hear her giving relationship advice to divorced friends, and counsel her unwed niece with 3 children of different daddies on being responsible. I’m thinking – how does she block out her own behavior? Unbelievable, but I think she really has selective amnesia, and that’s how she has dealt with her infidelity. I hate to remind her but feel like I need to periodically to keep it grounded.
Honey, that sounds so sad. You’re the marriage police.
What a terrible life. Just enough good to keep you hooked, mine did that too.
25 years wasted – but I’m not wasting any more time. Kicked him out almost 3 years ago, and rebuilt my life and my kids lives. Listen to the advice here. It doesn’t get better. Trust that she sucks.
Asswipe same thing. Ready with big time advice for everyone and opinions up the ass. But god forbid anyone try to tell him what to do.
Yeah true about the empathy. My ex was a bloody social worker. But when it came time to feel for my pain – well the empathy was quite limited and bound to a time frame. Could’t handle looking like the bad guy….
Gosh, so true. He told me once that he clearly has more compassion than me. It confused me at the time but now my retort would be “sure, maybe for the unknown Syrians but not for the people closest to you. Not for suffering you have to witness firsthand.”
Buddy has it so right. No empathy, no compassion, just plain guilt and anger because I want to move far away to heal and rebuild my life while he goes back and forth whether the pick me dancing the whore is doing will make him move back in with her. I thought I was a fool. She’s a much bigger one. If he had left the affair partner to go back to his wife I’d tell myself that shit is not over. I just don’t give a damn anymore. Divorce final today. I wasted and he stole 30 years of my life. When this house sells I will truly be free. Of him and his dramatic bullshit. She can have the mean, nasty, bitter, can’t fully invest, lying, cheating, closed up motherfucker he is. She has no idea about his 30 or so bondage cheating websites he is on or the 10 pictures of different woman s asses he put huge belt marks on in her bedroom in her bed since when she travels for work she leaves him alone a couple of days a month. While the whore cat is away, the sick, twisted, demented practicing no safe sex fat rat will play. He really is a sick fuck claiming to be a nice decent person. Ha don’t they all! I have evidence and if he fucks with me in the future she will get a nice package special anonymous delivery. Thank god soon I will be totally and completely free. Taking chancing with peoples health to satisfy his sick sick ways.
Buddy–the lack of empathy, even when we are at our darkest, is because their sense of power over us is more of an aphrodisiac. THEY made us cry, they made us heave with spasms of pain–THEY are almighty. It trumps any sense of fairness or empathy they have for us. Sick mother fuckers.
The Dumbsel/Dumbell In Distress is who they care about because she/he NEEDS them and makes them feel SOMETHING and feel like SOMEONE which it appears is a challenge to achieve for NPD’s.
I believe they get a big rush out of control and getting a rise out of people whether positive or negative.
When I realized that crushing me was a rush for him, I started doing better. All of a sudden, I understood that a clown car full of shrinks could not fix this depravity.
Yes, they are sick mother fuckers. My ex did eventually did admit to me that it gave him pleasure to be “King” over me. He wanted to reconcile and I said, “Fuck NO.”
I should have suspected that he was cheating when he began to express sympathy for the divorcee at work and anger about her asshole ex. Poor her. Poor needy her. It simply meant that they shared the “poor me” justification for adultery.
Buddy
X’s excuse for his lack of empathy was because of me! According to the sociopath he got along just fine with everyone but me. Thanks for helping me figure that out. Yet he has NO friends, only customers he sees annually. How did I miss that huge red flag?
Asswipe as well, all the sympathy in the world for ho’s kids and family problems. Pity the animals and people on the news. Oh god yes rants and raves over injustice. Rants a bunch, does nothing. Our kids have problems or issues, who cares, get over it, do what he says to the letter, they don’t he ignores them. Sister called him, her husband died, his sister found her husband dead call him for comfort, oh gee sis, that’s a shame talk to you later bye! Their father a really good guy dies, no tears, no emotions, nothing, did not go to his fathers service did not help sis with the arrangements. Did nothing to help her nothing! But he showed up for the money all kind and nice. Who was that masked man? Calls them birthdays, thanksgiving, maybe, Christmas, that’s it. Why doesn’t whores family ask about his family, reach out to his family, nothing. No empathy for anyone but himself or the current flavor. What an asshole. He has a great family, he ignores them mostly, my family sucks. I got real close to them over 30 years but now they are supposed to hate me or at least take his side. He gets pissed off if they call me before him! Our own kids even. He still wants to be the boss of me! Fucking asshole. Free free, soon I will be free and no contact!
Buddy, Kar Marie……ditto on the empathy for those he didn’t even know and the HO HO HO (it’s Christmas time folks!) but nada for me. Sick fuck.
Me, too–if I am just eloquent enough to explain how much pain he caused me, and how he could have handled things differently so he will admit he was wrong…..They.don’t.care.
The problem is, the best cheaters give you just enough to make you BELIEVE that talking to them will work. I re-read some old texts from my X after D-day, and he was a master manipulator. He would act just vulnerable enough to finally get me to agree to therapy (even after I’d asked for a divorce 3 times), and as soon as he thought he had reeled me in, turn the tables on me. Thankfully, I stopped falling for it after the deal-killer of D-day, but a year out, still have trouble wrapping my head around just how disordered he was/is.
Tempest-I struggled with that too when having conversations with the ex. He could flip between sounding caring and sorry in one sentence, and literally in the next sentence say something that would bring me to my knees. It was completely disorienting. Then, because he was always controlling when we could “talk”, I would mind f myself, by going back and reading our texts.
There were some whole text conversations, where he would actually sound like an understanding, compassionate human being that accepted at least some minimal amount of blame. Re-reading those texts kept me hoping that he had a soul, when I knew darn well deep down from our actual in-person conversations, that he couldn’t possibly have one. I mean-how hard is it to be fake over text! I even remember telling myself at one point that he must have been sincere when he was being nice over text, b/c he would answer my texts so quickly, I reasoned that he was often so nasty, that it would be hard for him to quickly and respectfully answer my texts if that wasn’t how he truly felt.
Good God. I was seriously desperate to believe I wasn’t married to a blood sucker. Thank God that I can sometimes get a chuckle out of some of these things now, instead of a full day of weeping. Small miracles and all…
Blerg and Tempest, that is my story too – this is very descriptive of my cheater:
“The problem is, the best cheaters give you just enough to make you BELIEVE that talking to them will work. I re-read some old texts from my X after D-day, and he was a master manipulator. He would act just vulnerable enough to finally get me to agree to therapy (even after I’d asked for a divorce 3 times), and as soon as he thought he had reeled me in, turn the tables on me.”
After I asked for a divorce, I agreed to first try MC. My cheater was a decent wife for about a week, then quickly reverted to not participating in rebuilding the relationship. We even had good sex for a few days before weeks of sexlessness. She would also manipulate with health problems, so she was unable to work, take care of kids, clean house, or have sex. But she was healthy enough to participate in ironman triathalons and girls weekends away. Rinse then repeat.
It’s hard accepting the truth that 1) she used me thoroughly and had no desire for a real relationship with me and 2) our marriage was a fake life simply put in place for me to provide for her.
I should be reimbursed for the eye work, the botox and the fake tits. I’m still paying for that crap. It sucks when you buy your wife $8,000 boobs and then only other guys get to play with them.
Whoops – went off-topic there !
Buddy and Tempest-I can remember weeping over and over in front of the ex to the point where I could barely breathe. He would basically either just stare at me coldly, or act nervous. He was probably nervous, because I often spontaneously started crying in public after I found out. Of course, he wouldn’t want his image tarnished. I just couldn’t help myself, because I was such a wreck.
It is so awful to even repeat, but I realized that the ONLY time he ever comforted me after D-day was when I actually somehow was completely calm and said that if he hadn’t loved me, he should have just told me, because I would have let him go. He actually hugged me, and then started kissing me. I am positive he only hugged me, because he thought it would lead kissing and then to sex. So depraved.
It finally finally clicked for me after I had been seeing my therapist for about 6 months. I cried at every session like clockwork. However, in one particular session I told him something so painful about how I felt after D Day that it elicited what I can only describe as an almost guttural cry from my body. My therapist was always kind to me, but he looked at me with such compassion and shock afterwards, that I just couldn’t deny the hard truth anymore. Here was this person that was paid to listen to me, and he had more empathy and concern for me than the person that pledged to be with me forever. I couldn’t deny that my ex had zero remorse about the pain that he caused after that.
That is so touching and so sad, Blerg, those are such awful early days after betrayal.
Same here for everything. I remember vividly the cold stare he would give me while I was balling my eyes out. Just cold. Then at other times…. and in hindsight they were just enough times to keep me reeled in he would show just enough emotion to keep me thinking he might actually be human. But he isn’t. So thankful that the OWhore has him now. She thinks she won and that is my best revenge. BUT accepting the fact that HE DID NOT NOR EVER DID CARE was hard. I had to rethink and rewrite and reaccept my entire marriage. Its a mind fuck. But going back now with his NP a given it is actually much clearer… all the gas lighting and projecting I now see it in perspective and realize it wasn’t me and that I was the normal one. Accepting the fact that there are actually people like that out there and you were married to one takes a lot of strength thought. I mean if you look at it you are truly in the presence of evil if you believe Scott Pecks “People of the Lie.”
So Untold once you accept and begin to understand just what these monsters are made of you will most likely go back and see your marriage in a new light. And you get to relive a lot of it and its painful… not painful because you didn’t make it work or she didn’t realize how amazing you were but painful because honestly how many times during the marriage did your heart break just a little? With each slight or disregard or nasty comment or lie or neglect your heart had to be broken just a bit like mine yet WE IGNORED IT to make the marriage work. Thats why I cry now…. when I cry… which is much less. And I think thats healthy because I value myself enough now to see that I deserved better the entire time.
And CL I love it… there was no midlife crises and our marriage ended because it was bad…. He is/was a selfish narcissistic person who cheated…. period dot. Thats what I tell people now. And it feels GREAT.
W O W
PS I teach high school English. I sure wish I could share this AND ALL THE WRITING ON THIS BLOG with my students. You’re very gifted writers. (Now I’m embarrassed about all the mistakes in my own reply. Yikes)
One way to frame this reality: they didn’t care about the important stuff BUT they also didn’t care about the embarrassing stuff either (farting, eating ice cream for dinner). They were our “starter kit” (even if it took twenty years to really get it)
Thank you Kelly. Those days really were the worst of my life. I will say that, although I still have triggers that can make me weepy or angry, the emotions are less intense and last for a shorter amount of time. Phew.
I am so glad to hear that you remarried a wonderful man after having to deal with your evil, poisonous ex. I honestly think they take even more joy in leaving later in life, because they know it just causes that much more despair. It is truly sick.
I have such sympathy for your kids. My Dad was a serial cheat who eventually left my Mom when my sisters and I were young. To this day, my Mom says that she thinks he met his AP after he left. It is too painful for her to admit he cheated, even though he suddenly had a 22 year old girlfriend a month after he left. SMH.. Although, he was always very involved in our lives and I do love him as my Dad, I will never truly respect him. I have a hard time reconciling the man I love as my father with my thoughts about the kind of person that leaves their family for any reason, let alone an affair. I know first hand that they don’t change, b/c my Dad has cheated on every single woman he has been with since leaving my Mom. Of course he and the AP he left for didn’t work out-big shock.
They. Just. Don’t. Care.
This is a hard truth.
It feels personal. But it’s really not.
Absolute truth Roaring. Plain, simple and sad truth. Once you accept this fact I believe it gets a little easier.
Slow clapping, Roaring, and I must repeat your awesome words–>
“They. Don’t. Care.
It feels personal. But it’s not.”
Realizing that there was no reason to take STBX’s disordered, abusive behavior personally was the biggest “aha” moment for me. It’s so incredibly difficult to accept, because it’s contingent on realizing they never loved you to begin with and that the entire relationship was an illusion, but on the other hand, it’s how narcissists treat all of their relationships. Realizing that, just because we were married (and in fact *because* we were married and I therefore had higher expectations than most people in STBX’s life) I did not warrant better treatment, helped me move on.
Second to not taking it personally was realizing that nothing I could say or do would ever persuade him, ever. Most especially when it came to the dynamics of our relationship, but also when it came to other aspects of our lives together–when he was right, he was right, and nothing I could say or do would persuade him to believe otherwise.
Untold, the sooner you can accept these two basic realities of being married to a disordered narcissist, the easier it will be for you to move on. And please keep in mind, as others posted above, that there are so many women out there who would absolutely love to be with a man capable of writing such heartfelt, self-reflective, and beautiful poetry.
I personally believe that these types of people DO love us – but in a very limited, fucked up sort of way, the way they know best. And honestly, who wants their ‘brand’ of love when this is the best love they got!! I don’t!
Roaring…………you’re on point with both! ‘They just don’t care & It feels personal’.
“It feels personal. But it’s really not.”
SUCH a profound point that really REALLY helps in processing the whole thing! I’m still working on it, but when I started to think about the shi&%y decisions he made for HIS life and not what he did TO ME, it was really freeing! Still painful as hell, of course, but freeing! All they care about is themselves and then all we care about after DDAY is focusing on THEM, feeding their narcissism bc we need answers and are so hurt. It’s truly a viscous cycle!
So very true. I’m really struggling with all this right now. He tells me he knows he beat on the wrong horse, he’s screwed up, I’m his best friend, he misses me, but he feels the need to work on his affair relationship or he simply is a failure! (?) I guess our 26 year marriage meant nothing. He needed to get out there and live life. What is he doing? Sitting at his Chinese mail order bride’s massage parlor babysitting her 80+ year old mother who doesn’t speak English when he is not working. She convinced him her husband, yes she is married to the man who brought her to the US about 6 years ago, was just a business arrangement. I bet he didn’t know that. The entire situation is sick and twisted. Yet I still love that fool. We are in the process of a divorce. I played the pick me dance for 9 months because I did not know about the other woman, although everything pointed to it, I wanted to believe he wouldn’t do that to me. Hopefully this gets better. My heart is broken at the moment. I could not be more surprised by all this than had he told me he was in the witness protection plan and our life was all a lie.
If you have proof that it was a ‘business arrangement’ you need to report that to the authorities. Put some karmic justice and get his whore kicked out of the country for immigration fraud.
I don’t think it was a business arrangement. I think she used that as the excuse so my husband would feel “OK” continuo g in this sick relationship. If it truly were a business relationship that BOTH parties knew about, she would have told my husband about her husband yo front and invited him over to their house. Her husband has a restraining order against him, she threatened to kill him. My husband believes he just got that because he could. No, I don’t believe so. They both had attorney representation.
I’m struggling with it all, but I wrote down the following to try to help me put it all into perspective.
I miss my husband who is living with another man’s wife. This is not the man I married. As he has told me recently, “I’m a wreck Lisa”, yes, he is.
<>
^^^^^^ that was me times a million^^^^^^^ for 26 fucking years
The poem (which I think is dear) sounds exactly like the efforts my now husband made with his then wife who left him to chase green grass. She manufactured a jillion excuses but in the end we both had really selfish uncaring narc spouses.
“”””I used to think that if I explained it in terms he’d understand that he would be like “OMGee I hurt her, I get it, I messed up””””
this is what I meant to quote…me and computer not getting along
Untold… My heart goes out to you. I know the feelings of wanting to reconcile. I also know it takes so much forgiveness, patience, love, and kindness to stay in a relationship after you’ve been cheated on. Maybe there are some unicorns out there. Maybe there really truly are some couples that make it after an affair. Looking back, I think a really good thing to look for is true remorse. Does she actually really feel bad about what happened, or does she say she’s sorry for one minute and then want everything to just go back to how it was. I don’t know. We should have a unicorn success story actually tell us what it looks like 😉 I will say this, I believe in marriage and I tried just as you to reconcile. We had major infidelity 8 years ago in our relationship and really really worked on things. I, like you, had to muster up the love, forgiveness, patience, and kindness to try to look past this betrayal and see the person I loved underneath. Took him to sex addiction counseling, waited it out, wanted to see if it was real before we chose to have kids. Had some bumps in the road, it wasn’t perfect, but fell in love with him again, had kids together. Then, when my 2nd child was 3 months old and i’m home while he’s ‘working’ I find a post on facebook with him and another woman. It was “a friend” he needed “to help” by taking her to a concert and an all day hike 90 minutes outside of town. That was then followed by a week in a hotel to ‘pray about our marriage’ and really ‘focus on our family’ of which I found craigslist ads for hook ups. HEARTBREAKING. All I can say is, I definitely hope for the best for you. For me, and my situation, I need to give up on this unicorn and try to move on with my life. Even still, I still get sucked in – but he can change, he just needs to go to counseling. God, I get on my own nerves saying that, but I’ll get it one of these days. Keep moving forward, one step at a time… try to judge actions rather than words. Keep getting support from places like this and other counseling outlets. Best of luck to you Untold. I genuinely hope it works out for you. Take care and God bless.
Yes , Untold, I do think and hope there may be couples out there who recover – but IF they do, there needs to be things in place, such as; true remorse, also if they came to you and confessed in the first instance, that’s a big help. And if they were always interested in personal development or spiritually aware, I’m guessing this could be a good sign. But then again, I wouldn’t know. My ex had none of the above!
“We should have a unicorn success story actually tell us what it looks like”
We have a lot of them peacefulchump, you just related a “success” story where you reconciled. And you caught your spouse cheating again years later. Happened to me too, I forgave and 10 years later I caught ex cheating again. Seems to me that a successful unicorn story is really only successful for the cheater.
“Seems to me that a successful unicorn story is really only successful for the cheater.”
Preach it, Dat. This is the truth…. sure, some cheaters manage to hold it together for awhile, maybe even for years (although it’s far likelier that they are just better at hiding their cheating.) But eventually, it’s almost guaranteed that they are going to cheat again and you’ll end up going through the nightmare once more, but this time older and already scarred from the first Dday.
Why do that to yourself? Why reopen a wound? Just get it over with the first time so you can move on and heal. I spent YEARS more with my ex after he admitted (in a rage) that he slept with other men. I spent those years being the marriage police, snooping in his drawers and closet for evidence of gay activities — and sometimes finding it — and knowing deep in my heart that he could never be trusted. God, I cannot believe I put myself through that for so long.
I’ve been with Nice Guy over two years now, and we live together. Not once have I felt the need to snoop through his sock drawer. Not once have I wondered if he is lying to me. Not once have I found evidence of cheating. It’s so much better on the light side.
GladIt’sOver – please be careful. Just because you’ve never felt the need to snoop doesn’t mean he’s honest. In my case, there were no signs, no need to snoop, didn’t felt the need to snoop. I just randomly one day decided to check his email on a really quick intuitive hunch (that made no logical sense btw) that seemed to make no sense. Until it did. I’m not here to insult your relationship, but I’m just looking out for you. Really truly hope it goes well after all your pain. We all deserve this!
Actually I already had the password to his accounts – so I thought he was transparent. But nope, separate email account, etc etc
Please tell me how you found the normal partner! It’s so hard to believe they exist after being chumped so long!
there is a reason I chose this name
I really thought I was one..only to learn that I was masterfully chumped
It might be helpful to some of us if you shared your unicorn story. Not that I have any intentions of reconciling, but what does false reconciliation look like? … the kind where you fully believe the cheating is behind you, and life as you know it has been restored? My stbxh never quit cheating…. lied like a boss as details of new affairs continued to pop up, so I never really had the opportunity to fall into the unicorn chasing phase.
Reconcilliation is like an addict attempting to relive his/her first high with the less potent drug until a better fix can be found.
Yes
They learn to go underground even more after you forgive them the first time! They then usually wait 10, 20, 30 or even 40 years avoiding child support, alimony, loss of reputation, loss of children’s respect, and loss of house, pension and assets! They usually create chaos and steal everything in the end! Narcissists always have to win…they do it by not playing fair!
My ex convinced me he was not cheating with two co-workers. I was 38 years old and pregnant with our third child when I suddenly had these strong suspicions. But he begged and pleaded and charmed and looked me in the eye swearing he would never cheat. He finally convinced me he would stop having contact with them. While it wasn’t a “D-Day” it was damn close and I consider it my first D-Day even though he never admitted physical affairs.
12 years later, when I was 51, I caught him. He finally admitted he had been cheating with those two women for over 15 years, all along, having unprotected affairs and group sex. But for all those years he acted like the most loving loyal and trustworthy husband ever.
I was floored, stunned, why? No answer, crickets. Now I had to start over at a much older age, and our children being old enough to understand the depravity refuse to see him and they have no father. He stole all those years of my life and we ended up in the place he always knew we’d be, but he kicked me to the curb when I had so many less options and after quite frankly he stole the best years of my life. He deprived me of making reasoned decisions about Mynown life, love and children.
I’ve moved on and remarried, to a much better man. But I will always regret not trusting myself and not valuing myself enough to get away before allowing my life to be profoundly damaged by a sociopath.
My only advice to others in this situation, especially when younknow there was an affaiR– get out. IMHO, the end result is pretty much a foregone conclusion, don’t let them steal another day.
My story except I was 55 …I tell young people to be careful who they marry!
“Don’t let them steal another day.” Love this!
The only regret I have (and it’s a big one) is exactly that–the wasted years with such a terribly unethical, cruel, character-less, all around poor excuse for a human being. I believed the genuine imitation naugahyde remorse. I believed that the short term periods when the ex wasn’t cheating were evidence of real and lasting change. In reality, he would just clean up his act for a few months to appease me and then get more and more secretive and deceptive. He actually just fine tuned his cheating techniques while patting himself on the back for having worked so hard to change his ways! Umm, sociopath much?
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I now know that to be true, and I wish I could have gotten it through my thick skull the first time the ex cheated.
Me too. 8 years down the drain of fake reconciliation. Even if cheater becomes a loyal saint, it turns the chump into the marriage police. I am sure that there will always be something amiss, something broken, forever suspicion…The marriage has gone Humpty Dumpty after cheating, no matter how beautiful the unicorn is.
yup same here. 6 years after catching him in a 6 week affair, he was remorseful, so very sorry, moved out for a month, promised and promised and promised it was a mistake, would never happen again, I mean everything to him, his family means everything to him…bla blahdee blah.
I bought it hook line and sinker, rug swept, forgave, and totally trusted him after about 2 years of marriage police. Come August 26, 2013-he admits to an affair with MOW and I threw him out. I was totally committed and trusting by that point because he had been so good and open and love bombed me on a daily basis. Not a unicorn….nope.
Yes, no reliving teenage years, no mid life crisis, I’m an empty nester, I didn’t cheat, I put my efforts into helping him build his business while both of us worked full time. I embraced the time he and I finally had alone to ourselves. Choices , bad ones he made put our marriage onthe path of destruction. Now he suffers the consequences of his actions. Turning into a mean, nasty, bitter old man. I told him “the problem with people like you is you don’t appreciate what’s standing right in front of you!” Only sees the shiny and sparkly stuff that’s past me. He refuses to change his ways so this gonna happen over and over again. Good! That bitch whore can get the wrath this time and for the second time!
Truth: “I told him “the problem with people like you is you don’t appreciate what’s standing right in front of you!” Only sees the shiny and sparkly stuff that’s past me.”
In many cases, these fuckers already have what they are looking for but since it isn’t new and shiny, it isn’t good enough, even though what they have is based on reality, not fantasy.
They’d rather have the fantasy.
They tell themselves they are searching for true connection and true intimacy, but they are really searching for escape, regardless of the cost to those who actually love them and back it up with actual actions.
Now I’m getting angry.
Right on buddy! Asswipe stole 30 years of my life, I stood by him every second if every minute of every day and for what?! To be told lies and disrespected. That’s how much I meant. He’s a pathetic five year old who wants all the candy in the bowl. I just afraid I’m so damaged by this. I will live a good life and be okay but I know I will never trust again. Too damn old for this shit!
After divorce, he wants to stay real good friends and date!! What the hell is wrong with him!!!! Aaarrrgghh! Why do these fuckers think like this?! Says it will fuck him up if I disappear? Why the fuck does he even care?! He fucking fired me, damn near broke me but doesn’t want to lose me out of his life!? That will fuck up all his future relationship!!!! Shit! Fuck! Piss! Damn! Motherfucker!!! Who the hell thinks like this?!!! Shit! Shit! Shit!
Kar Marie, tell him to f*** off. You want real friends not abusers! My ex also had this dream. What did I do? I went almost completely no contact. Cut her off cold just like she did to me when she was pushing for the divorce. I respond to texts if it something important about the kids. Then it’s very short and to the point. Don’t fall for this bs. I find it amusing now how she is the one truly having a hard time letting go. Now she has to deal with the fact I refuse to take care of her and her problems like I use to. She left a medical bill for me just this week. Wrote me a note she had called, etc. and couldn’t get it straightened out. I’m sending it back to her telling her it’s her problem and to get someone else to help her figure it out. F*** her! You want to cheat on me and treat me like crap until you get what you want. And now you want me to help you? No way, enjoy your sparkly new life babe! Grow the he** up! Disconnect and enjoy watching him plead and beg while you totally ignore him.
There aren’t many things more pathetic than a 50 year old “teenager.”. I had to suffer one myself for a while.
Anita
I know what’s worse than a 50 year old teenager! A fifty eight year old teenager. Where do the end uo when MOM is in her 80’s?
I hear you, Anita!! My teenager is 60. Kicked his ass to the curb six months ago and on my journey to MEH!
Yes^^^ This. So pathetic. My xw tried to become my girls best friends instead of being their mom. And she dressed teen fashionable. It was just so pathetic. All, right after turning 50. Pathetic (such an appropriate word).
My spouse too! Around 7th grade for my oldest, she started hanging out with her friends and running around with them? I still don’t understand that. Luck for my daughter, she was able to push her away some once she started driving. Wife even wanted to hang out with her and her first real boyfriend. It’s just really weird to me. But you know in the end, my girls treat me like a father and mostly want to stay with me. They know mom isn’t normal. They know who the responsible parent is and who they can count on when the going gets tough.
My STBX too!
I confess I’ve thought he was ridiculous the last few years: hair products, weight lifting, unbuttoning the top of his dress shirts (so his graying, thinning chest hair shows?)…well, it’s all crystal clear now.
His craigslist ads stated his age as variously 28, 34, and 40. He’s 54.
Because his “infidelity” was all purchased, and he truly believed his webcam “girlfriend” was in love with him, I can now see he really believes he can be that sexy young man he was 25 years ago.
So much of this is just absurd – if it didn’t hurt so much, I’d be laughing my head off.
Only I’m not actually a cruel person. And it would be cruel to mock this kind of crazy.
Because a 28 year old looks like a 54 year old, right? He’s not self-deluded much is he? I see it all the time when men of a certain age start getting chemical peels, eyelid reconstruction (a very big thing) and hair plugs/ dye jobs. Do these idiots not know how obvious it all looks? Apparently not.
All those plugs lined up in pretty little rows! Makes me chuckle! Sorry, I know that’s mean!
Had a male friend who got hair plugs. More of his hair fell out later and now his hair plugs on his head resemble a freshly plowed corn field! It’s a pity!!!
My mom always said ‘There’s NO fool like an OLD fool.’
All the weigh lifting as swipe is doing to look and feel better will not change his temperament persona or make him not a woman and relationship destroyer or make him not lie and cheat. Or make him pay more attention to his own kids than hers. His are huge dissappoints her are effect and flawless. They just suck and nothing will ever change that. He is proud of the fact he is the greatest lover on the planet, ruins women for other men and breaks their hearts. Proud boasts of it. Gag, puke, barf, should have been more interested in becoming a great dad, not an emotional absent one. Fucker! Karma bus hitting him now . be careful what you wish for asswipe!
Everything I have read here so far makes sense to me from my current position of hindsight. However, back when I was wearing Untold’s shoes, I felt like I had to walk through the valley of the shadow of spackle too, for my own sake. I had to be authentically done on my own terms before I could walk away without feeling tempted to keep going back.
So, I empathize deeply, even while my now-self sees it more through a lens like CL’s.
It truly is a red flag that the poem pissed her off. My ex fired a therapist who called him out on his belief that he could do whatever he wanted then work it out with me later because “she will understand, she always understands.” He actually came home and ranted about it, and he wasn’t one to rant.
That was the day I realized the reconciliation I was trying to work on with him was doomed. It could be that the same realization is trickling in for you.
In my case, it felt like a whomping kick in the balls and I didn’t want to look at it straight on. But, of course, I eventually had to see it clearly. It was unreasonably volatile that her acknowledgment of his unfair way of looking at our agreements was such an offense to him. Irritated, sure. Fire-your-therapist, ranting pissed off? Methinks thou dost react too much.
I feel for you, Untold, and I am glad you are working to keep the fog clear. Keep doing that as best you can and don’t stop expressing those boundaries or sharing your authentic needs for the partnership. Don’t let her reactivity back you off from keeping your cards on the table. If she freaks out and the relationship has to end, you’ll just be learning what you need to know.
I’m sorry you have to go through this.
“The valley of the shadow of spackle”
Oh hahaha, love that Ami!
I hear that for cheaters, what works best is a limerick.
B-)
There once was a man from the Midwest,
Whose motto was “I am the BEST!”
“How lucky,” thought me
To be with a man such as he!
‘Til an STD was diagnosed in a test…
There once was a cheater named Brad
That thought fucking around was rad
He chose tits-magee
Saw how brown grass could be
And suddenly can’t stop “feeling bad.”
My soon-to-be-ex is named Mark
He’s a creepy, insufferable Narc
Loves his hand and his dick
Makes sense (he’s a prick)
Mad I spent twenty years in the dark
Thank you Roaring! My narc is also named Mark and is definitely a prick. Even the 20 years is a match! That one is going in my journal.
I think we’re sister-wives
Roaring, I LOVE your poem !!
I wrote one but Im saving it for the Valentines contest
(I SO want to post it now though!!)
My xw has a personality disorder, and
is a cold hearted manipulator moreover
After I caught her unfaithful ass cheating
Shit sandwiches she wanted me to keep eating
But now she’s stuck in the no-contact zone.
Permanently.
There once was a ginger named Jason.
Homewreckers and whores he kept chasing.
He got her tattoo
and drank too much booze.
Now, a lonely life’s what he’s facing.
There once was a loser named Paul
He thought he deserved it all
He had kibbles and cake
But he was narcissistic and fake
And eventually lost it all.
Thank you Margo – my ex is named Paul too!
Song lyrics are so profound!
There once was a guy who was chumped
His cheating wife he needed to dump
She snarled at his poem
And kicked his pet gnome
And now he’s in a faux remorse slump
Your turn…
There once was an asshole named Don
Whose pants he could rarely keep on
Played me for a fool
But I found him a tool
Saw the light and I’m so moving on
(That may or may not be snake’s first name and it may or may not rhyme with it)
Hahahaha
My friend wrote a poem for me – after I told her my stbxh offered to write me a reference letter (yes, as a future wife for someone else).
I’m just having a selfish time, it’s not you
I want to have my cake and eat it, too
Don’t worry, the children are going to be okay
They might even thank me one day
Until then, off in your car I go
I’ve got many a wild oat left to sow
And if it would make you feel any better
I could always write you a reference letter
Blessing, let me get this straight. He offered….to write you..,a (choke)…reference letter…..as a future wife????
I have no words.
Oh shit!!! How do they allll say the same shit? To be fair I think chumps do too. Mine rationalized that the children would be fine. Asked if they don’t take it well and he says he will come back I’d that would make a difference. Ohh lordie. They talk such shite.
You have an awesome friend! That poem really hit me – cheaters are just so, so cold.
Upon becoming an empty nester
Old acquaintances did a woman pester
Imagine her luck!
She found someone to fuck!
Who resembled creepy Uncle Fester.
Tempest . . . hysteria abounds in my one bedroom apartment. The neighbours are complaining, “What is wrong with Virago?”
Hahahahahahah. They will never know the joy of the finest limerick, for I am incapable of communicating!!!
My narcs name is Merv and he earned it by being a Perv.
He stole my faith, my children, and all our years worth! To leave me for his mistress who’s face resembles my afterbirth! Oh well good bye Merv karma is what you deserve!
Great one!
……Kicked his ass to the *****curb***
Awesome Tempest!
I can’t keep up with this creativity. I’ll have to work on it. Stay tuned. This is right up my alley.
ok here it is:
There once was an idiot named Bo
Who picked a girl/child 40 years younger to blow
Our once happy house he defiled
which cause me to file
His true character i now KNOW
Ta da!
There lives a narc named Oskar.
He uses women in order to prosper.
He picked the wrong one;
She said ‘this is not fun’ so
She kicked his ass to the club
And he lost her.
Hahahahahahhkahahaha!
There once was a man called untold
Whose wife was liard and bold
She fucked an old flame
Then did it again
Cause the bitch was so callous and cold
There was a skank named Rick,
His only brain was his dick,
He fooled around,
like an old silly clown,
Until his world finally fell down!
Karma is a bitch!
Double bonus points for Mandie for making it about our friend Untold. 🙂
Wow, you guys are really good at this. I’ve always sucked at poetry!
My meter is off, but i need breakfast.
There once was a time in the fog
When I thought I was stuck in the bog
But at last I broke free
And I get to be me
And the best men in my life are my dogs
(It’s not nearly potty-mouthed enough, but it’s true)
There once was a cheater named James,
Who hooked up with an old flame
He f***ed her and lied
while his marriage died
and said his wife was to blame.
that’s mine too! Cheater name and all!
There once was a cheater named Tim,
Unfortunately I was married to him,
Turned out he’s a fake,
Now he’s married the skank,
And their chances at happiness are slim.
😉
Love this!
LOL!
Holy shit, Untold! Based on your description of her reaction, I was expecting lots of vitriol and the myriad of words to call her a slut.
But no, your poem was a declaration of your qualities, commitment to your marriage and you ended with “I love you.”
I don’t know what to say to that, Untold. I just feel really sorry for you.
Untold,
What she IS telling you is your poem pissed her off because she is a wretched woman who chose to find herself under another man and was perfectly ok doing so. Poems…sonnets…pick me dances don’t work with these jagoffs… They work to keep you around, paying her bills to go fuck someone else until she is completely sick of you and has her ducks in a row to divorce you…
like Ami says….love this btw…you are “walking through the valley of Spackle”…..Spackle this line of bullshit….Spackle this night out….Spackle this new found setting message to her smoochie.
put the Spackle down. Fear the evil….that shit sandwich she is handing you is gonna choke you.
I hate this poem. I don’t know why.
But I love CL’s limerick. There has to be humor. Especially in a cheating situation, where bland / naive doesn’t work.
Untold,
It sounds like you are locked into a battle over the marriage narrative. As long as she is denying and not taking FULL responsibility for her cheating, a godly, healthy marriage is not in the offering.
Circumstances do not make people cheat. Character makes people cheat. Bad character.
-DM
Divorce Minister, thank you for sharing that! I needed to hear that today! xoxoxoxox
Thanks for the kind words! Glad it helped.
Untold,
Chump Lady is right on the money with this one, and we look to rationalize our cheaters behavior. I thought the same exact thing about my XW – that she was going through a midlife crisis. She became a nightmare to live with, and I did not quite know why. She told me all those things your wife told you, and I actually believed it for a long time. You saw your wife’s real character, not a midlife crisis. Narcs start slipping up the older they get, and it only gets worse (do some digging and you will see that you are in for the ride of your life).
You need to move on with your life and find someone who appreciates you for who you are.
Best of luck.
You are on point about narcs not aging well. X hated getting older because he was no longer cock of the walk and that’s when things when down hill quickly. A mirror is an aging narcs worst enemy and the plastic surgeon’s best friend. Just read that Brad Pitt went under the knife to “refresh” his look. What a shocker. Not.
Exactly, balding, complaining about 5 ponuds of extra belly that’s more like 40 pounds, body aches, pains, toothless, dick won’t work with out massive amounts of Viagra, and really nasty bondage sex, can’t achieve orgasm without beating partner into total submissive slave. Gee, I cover my gray, exercise to keep trim and able, my sex drive ain’t what it used to be, have all my teeth, of course I took care of mine, didn’t let them rot out of my mouth. I hurt every day, but I didn’t cheat, lie, betray or act like something I’m not. For all my efforts I got fucked over after 27 years. He sucks, they all suck. Doesn’t matter what we did or didn’t do it was never enough. Now the perfect flawless whore woman is dancing her ass off to get him back to marry her. So far not working. She knows about me but not the six or so others. Asswipe is an incredibly bad at lying but she will find out and when she does will burn him alive. I’m sorry I won’t be there to watch I will be hours away. Hahahahaha!!!!
Just gross. Kar. When I think about raising the bar really high as my therapist recommended I laugh thinking about these disgusting creeps. Can’t wait for your freedom ride.
Thanks Donna, thought knew him boy I didn’t. When he was a boy his parents coddled him and he always got his way. Guess now kids are grown time to go back to that screaming tantrum throwing five year old. Keep your fingers crossed this house sells. Then I will truly be free and absolutely no contact for any reason.
And entering therapy with a good therapist. Not a judgy one. I know I will need it to heal and of course all you in chump nation. I really want to start a local group for me and other chumps now no. He’d probably only come around to troll for new conquests. I will do this group so many of us out there and especially the ones like myself who was left isolated and totally completely alone. Need a name for my future group any ideas guys. I sincerely believe helping others through this bullshit will help me too.
Hi all – totally off topic, but am needing the nation’s words of wisdom and help. Husband and I are in process of divorce, he cheated and is still with AP. Here’s where I am – back to signing up and spending money on how to get him back. D-day was 6 months ago – is this normal? Am I just insane? Okay CN….help?
Mirages look real from far far away. You got away, and when casting a glance back at the dumb stuff, thought it looked like a good thing, so now you’re crawling back to the fake. Watch a terrible movie you hate. Then think about the pain he caused. Watch the movie again. What? You’re not going to do that? Then why put yourself through the pain again? Exactly. You wouldn’t.
Hahahaha
Chumptastic
X filed twice thinking he found his dream girl and cancelled the divorce process. The third time was a charm. I threw him out, filed and it’s the best thing I ever did. What’s normal for abnormal is the repeat cycle!
Chumptastic…I’m getting married this summer. I can’t wait until my XH finds out and I’m sure he will. Someone will tell him and it won’t be me. That’s when he will know For Sure that he lost me for good. I honestly think he believes he can always come back to me. Hahaha. Like I’ll always be an option in his disordered head.
Chumptastic – harsh words but – in the ‘pick me dance’ he chose her. I’m so sorry. Painful to read right now, I’m sure. Don’t let his future narrative be ‘Chumptastic would take me back in a flash’. Once the divorce is done and you have done your grieving. Once you’ve reckoned him up on the loony-o-meter that hindsight will supply you with, you will be horrified at the thought of him thinking you’d have him back, let alone him telling other people how desperate you were to stay with him.
You deserve to be loved Chumptastic – and love doesn’t go shack up with someone else while stomping all over your heart, or shit all over all the good things you shared. Love doesn’t make you do the pick me dance, or take the relationship to the wire (divorce).
Love yourself for now Chumptastic. You are unique and beautiful and valuable and worthy. You will never have those qualities appreciated by him – just look at how little respect he’s shown you already.
Stay strong. Divorce. Do not do the pick me dance. He’s a heartless idiot who does not deserve your love.
If he’s with AP that’s a no go. No way you can reconcile with someone STILL IN THE AFFAIR. Yes, it’s normal to waffle… but NC is the best prescription. You can’t win him back with any action other than NC. Honestly, if there is hope, NC and indifference will do it. No other pick me dances are ever successful. Take away the fork, remove yourself from triangle. Hang in there Chumptastic, you deserve so much better than this.
newchumpatl, I agree that sometimes going NC can sometimes provoke the cheater into realizing they’re losing something of value, therefore causing them to want to reconcile. The problem is that you then end up trying to reconcile with someone WHO DIDN’T SEE YOUR VALUE before you blocked them out, and who was FINE with hurting you until it became disadvantageous for THEM. That is so a no-win situation for the chump.
Some narcs do a fake tail-between-the-legs dance in attempt to reconcile when they realize the value of all that you DID for them to make their lives easier. Not because they have suddenly realized that they love you… When they have to fend for themselves without you it’s a HUGE inconvenience to them. Divorces are expensive and hard work… The path of least resistance for a narc sometimes is to get back into chump’s good graces and then beef up their stealth mode. It’s all just another narc tactic. They.Do.Not.Change.
As usual, Chump Nation for the WIN! Thank you for the bitch slap and the wisdom. NC and de-triangulation it is!! Love you all!
Chumptastic…to try to “win” him back from the other woman implies that he is a prize.
He is not.
You. Are. The. Prize.
(Tape this on your mirror….read it daily or hourly if you need to.
You need to let go and go NC.
Only then will HE have a loss to greive too.
You are already on the road to healing and freedom.
Stay on it.
He may never know true peace, contentment and self-respect,
but you can choose it for yourself.
Breathe, Stand Strong against the compelling pull of the past.
God Bless You and God Speed to You on your recovery journey.
(From a fellow Chump who was once where you are and now sees the brightness beyond.)
Yes!!!!!
Chumptastic, bitchslap yourself please. You’re in the bargaining stage of grief. He’s gone, checked out, with OW, grievously disrespected you. Get mad about that, accept that he sucks. Grieve. GO NO CONTACT.
I agree Chumptastic, we have all felt that way believe me, I know I sure did. I convinced myself I could be “secret friends” with my ex after finding out he had lived a double (triple) life for decades. I’d laugh at myself now but it’s not funny, only pure unadulterated awful pain. We know. And your willing to do almost anything after a while to relieve that pain.
But you must Back Away From The Narcissist. This is a game you can’t win (what’s that quote from the old movie War Games someone used? Something like: “The only way to win is not to play”). It hurts like hell and will take all your strength and more but DON’T DO IT, don’t try to reconcile. If you do you will allow him to destroy you completely. Value yourself, trust yourself and protect yourself. You know the answer. We are here to walk with you on your journey and encourage you to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Don’t desert yourself now, Chumptastic, let the worst remain behind you. (((Big Hugs))))
Not insane, Chumptastic, just delusional. Get thee to a library, start reading Lundy (Why Does he do that), and George Simon (Character Disorders), and align your head with he.is.disordered. again. Time and space have made you resort to a “he can be reasoned with! he can change!” view that you know in your heart of hearts is WRONG. Next stop, Home Depot for the 2 x 4 to smack sense back into yourself. Read old posts–everyone on CL who reconciled once ended up getting cheated on again, after losing years of their life. Don’t let that be you.
Not insane. You can’t see forest from trees. You are too wrapped up. Pretend you are advising a friend as a way to take your self out of it. Your love can’t save him. You don’t love a drug addict out of addiction .you don’t love a cancer patient cured.you don’t love the insane into sanity. Love does not move mountains okay. It can only do so much.
Chumptastic, my husband is still fucking his AP but I want to go back into reconciliation and win him back.
What would you tell me?
Exactly, back away from the Reconciliation Industrial Complex, get your money back. Go NO CONTACT. All communication is through your attorney from now on. Don’t let him suck you back into the pick me dance. PS: Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results…are you insane?
You are insane and are harming yourself. Document ALL of this crap and use it in your divorce settlement. I assuredly think two cheating assholes deserve each other. There is nothing magical about their genitals vs yours.
untold
sorry to say this but….
I doubt very much that a” mid-life” crisis is behind this. Much more likely there have been others. It is just in mid-life they cannot be bothered to hide the evidence, therefore get caught. She is bored with you, and is showing you zero respect.
File for divorce. If she loves you at all, she will try very hard to stop it. If not, you have your answer.
Move on before you waste more of your life with someone who does not care about you.
People who care about their partners do not screw old boyfriends. end of.
The point about being bored is real. Heard a lot about “tired of the same old…”, sick of these same four walls, etc.. Even though we’d take vacations, weekend getaways, she often seemed discontent. Always needed to be entertained, stimulated. It wore me out. After main DDay I stopped trying so hard to please. We have a regular date night and reasonable periodic fun getaways.
Sounds like my wife. No human being could possibly have generated enough non-deterministic “romantic” kibble to keep her happy. She was addicted to the continuous thrill of the first weeks of a new relationship.
Gonna be a long hard road adjusting to being single and starting completely over again at 60. But anything will be an improvement over the last three years of hell. I’m prepared to move forward and live a decent cheater free life!
I agree with everything you said, except the idea that the Cheater trying very hard to stop the divorce means something important. My X was horrified that I was setting the divorce wheels in motion! He had been rolling along, eating cake, and then I got a pitbull lawyer. He freaked the hell out! He wished he could have stopped the process, but I wouldn’t let that happen. I knew I would never love or trust him like before he fucked the neighbor. And he should have known better. The last straw was that this AP was a jerk, I hate people like her, so I just couldn’t see him the same, because he fell so in Wub with her, nasty!!
I love the rest of your points! You are correct that she is bored with Untold, and showing him zero respect. I think that means that Love has left the building, and you’re probably dealing with a disordered spouse!
There’s a zillion reasons cheaters stop the divorce. It’s usually about money and selfish needs. It’s about cake and appearance.
cheaters like to lie and steal,
spouse are ok for a next meal,
once in a while they have a fuck,
might be just you with any luck,
anyone handy grope a feel?
could go on ….
Untold,
Think about where your marriage is at right now with your cheater. If you feel distrustful, exhausted physically and emotionally, and a cloud of sadness hanging over your head, it’s time to leave.
I think you need to investigate your legal options. Like get a post nup. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to plan a fuckfest with a former friend. You need to protect yourself and your children legally from another episode.
Never ever EVER rationalize her determined, horrific choices to fuck you over. I’m mid life, grey and sagging, partial empty nester, menopausal. My character and integrity lead my decision making process, not my pussy. And I’m pretty freaking lonely right now.
You’ve exposed your chumpiness. Plan on further manipulation from your cheater. Get yourself to an attorney to create a post nup completely in your and your children’s favor. Oh yeah….get a full STD test panel. You have now fucked everyone her Xbf has fucked over the past 20-30yrs. I will bet you a Million Dollars no protection was used.
Untold, a Morman friend told me that her faith teaches her that her body is a temple and should not be defiled. Look at what you allowed another person to do to your temple. To your body, your soul, your safety, your joy, your hopes, your trust. She defiled you.
Hand puppets! Interpretive dance! You are killing me CL.Lol!
Look I get this guy. We get this guy. Hopium is a bitch in situations like these. Hope dies last. We hope for the brain dead in comas. We hope for world peace. We hope to win the lottery. Your wife is brain dead but not comatose. I see how you can cling to hope. You love her to your detriment. That is not quite the kind of love you want to go in for. Think about it. Letting her go will bring you to the brink. But hold on to your core so that when the shit ride ends you have something with which to rebuild. Here is some dooby brothers for you. Like you I am a fool who sees what she believes. We need to believe what we see.
https://youtu.be/sRfVAd-kO4o
HOPIUM- I love it!!! This post spoke to me so deeply! Hope is a motherfucker! Thank you, Mandie 101!!!!!
it’s a CL term and quite apt.
Untold, I sympathize with your pain. I chased the reconciliation unicorn for 2 years. When your done in the forest, let me know, I would totally go out with you!
Hi Untold, you said you wrote that letter a couple of years ago. So you’ve been reconciling for over two years and you are coming to this site and writing to CL. When do you think you will feel safe in your marriage? Is it worth it? I did this with my ex the first time he cheated, I regained trust and thought we were in good shape. But when times got tough (ie; my Mom died and I got depressed), there he was, cheating again. I don’t think he ever really stopped. Do you want to be with someone you can never trust to have your back? I tried that and it didn’t end well. I did go to a RIC forum for a few months after my second DDay and what I saw was not pretty. So many people 2, 3, even 6 years out from their first DDay still asking how to get their spouse to stop seeing the AP or posting that they caught them with someone else.
PS: what did your MC think of the poem and your spouses reaction? I’m curious.
Untold,
One of the many things CL and CN helped me learn is that “I can’t nice someone into doing the right thing.”
For over a decade I was the nice spouse, an Olympic-level spackler, giving my X space so he could succeed in his demanding career, following him from state to state so he could get promoted, visiting his family over visiting to mine. I basically accommodated him on all major life decisions because in my head that is what a loving team player for our family. All along, I was hoping for the reciprocity unicorn…
Until I found out that my X was using part of the time I was giving him to “get more work done” to have an affair with a grad whore half his age. The more stories I uncovered about my X’s extra-curricular activities, the more I realized that there was a large gap between what he said and what he did. The person I thought I was married to never existed.
When I chose to divorce him, he was shocked and became quite nasty in the proceedings. But I persevered, for months I kept going back to a Ludacris quote I found a few days post DDay:
http://www.ceremonyheals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/LUDACRIS.jpg
I chose self-respect. Untold, what will you choose?
I, too, made things easy for the ex. He did basically whatever the fuck he wanted to do. While I did ALL the work. He used the extra time to pursue a nasty loser whore.
She hates the poem because it speaks the truth. For her the words are a glimpse into a mirror. A mirror with a very clear and unflattering refection! She knows what she has done to you and she is not sorry. That makes her a very ugly person. She does not want to see herself this way. So she paints YOU as a devil…one who DESERVES to be treated so badly. Keep shining that mirror on her. Maybe it will eventually sink in that SHE SUCKS.
Poems for cheaters? Like casting pearls before swine.
In related news, the cockroaches in my basement failed to appreciate the violin sonata I composed for them.
LOL Nomar, you made me laugh out loud! I remember reciting 1st Corinthian 13 to my cheater, which was read at our wedding 32 years ago. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud … love never ends.” He sobbed louder and louder as I recited it, but it didn’t change a thing. Although I was pouring out my heart and soul, it was definitely about as useful as reciting poetry to a bug.
Bwahahahaha! Ungrateful pests! Imagine that!!!!!
Hahahaha, tears of laughter, thank you Nomar….
THIS! A waste of precious time!
Words just don’t break these cheaters! Here at CN we have, what I consider, a very smart, educated and well spoken group of Chumps! I’ve yet to read a post here that was not well thought out and intelligent! We are VERY good at communication! Our Cheaters…….ummm, not so much! That’s why they use their genitalia to “communicate” with their Schmoopies, prostitutes, Facebook hook ups, etc! The Cheater lacks the basic skills necessary to maintain ANY sort of long term, fulfilling relationship! Worse yet, they really don’t want to! They are “base”! It’s too much effort and work for them! We Chumps just require something deeper and more meaningful to fulfill our lives! Let your cheater go! Go find someone who “speaks your language” and knows that relationships are reciprocle! You aren’t on the same sheet of music with your cheater anymore and they are off dancing to a totally different tune! They just don’t want to listen, it’s not that they don’t get it, they just don’t care! Tell them Good-bye!
Roberta, you are onto something here. Cheaters are terrible at communication. If they are sad, mad, tense, uncomfortable, whatever, they hook up with some skank. They are truly unable to discuss their feelings, it just isn’t possible. I believe that is why it is so hard for us chumps to get why they are doing what they are doing. Why wouldn’t someone want to work on a lifetime partnership?
Unfortunately we picked shallow partner’s who would rather run away and not work on anything. Having a relationship that is balanced would be nice. That’s all I’m saying.
Perfectly correct!!!
First, I am a woman. I passed through the mid-life, almost an empty nester, definitely menopausal, never wanted to revisit my teenage years, sometimes selfish (but rarely, I mean almost never), not narcissistic and have a few old boyfriends as Facebook friends…and guess what I never cheated. It is called character. Something you either have or don’t have. Yes, there are people out there that reconcile however those are rare and I believe that the relationship will never be the same let alone better. That known fact of betrayal will always be there in the back of your mind triggered into your thoughts when the wind blows gently.
I say move on. It is hard but there are too many other people out there that would just never do what she did. Never even think about it.