Did Your Cheater Pretend to Hate Cheating?

cheating predator

The Friday Challenge is: Did your cheater tell you they hate cheating? Perhaps at the very moment they were, in fact, cheating? What kind of mindeffery is this?

***

A show of hands:

How many of you felt safe in your relationship because your cheater was such a vocal critic of infidelity?

Did they have an estranged relationship with a parent who cheated? Were they aghast in sympathy for some celebrity chump? Did they swear on their sainted grandmother’s grave that they would never do such a thing?

I suppose fake outrage is one way to throw you off the scent, or it could just be human cognitive dissonance. The cheater who made me Chump Lady told me quite convincingly that his exes cheated on him. How it’d been such a crushing blow, but he’d done therapy, and wasn’t bitter. I totally fell for this unlucky-in-love schtick. (Ex-wife #2 laughed heartily when I related this story to her. He was a serial cheater going back decades as it turned out.)

But maybe to him he did feel betrayed. How dare these women have agency and LEAVE him! (Putting aside the whole wandering dick issue…) The point was, his story comforted me. I didn’t think it was in his moral universe to cheat on me, but certainly he would never do such a thing because he knew how it felt. (He didn’t know how it felt. He did, however, enjoy inflicting that pain on innocents.)

Did you have a cheater who pretended to hate cheating?

Any interesting reactions when confronted with such hypocrisy?

TGIF!

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FormerlyKnownAs
FormerlyKnownAs
20 days ago

🙋‍♀️Happened to me! His mom was an affair partner and he really disrespected her for that. Also, he caught our neighbour with another man and he was so, so upset by that. He spent two whole days talking about it and in the end he called her husband to tell him, which I was super proud of 🙄 So yes- I thought he was anti-cheating!

Ka-chump
Ka-chump
19 days ago

My ex too- total outrage with women cheating but subtly blamed women for men cheating.

He may have cheated or not but I left for his coercive control behaviors.

Adelante
Adelante
20 days ago

Sounds like he condemned cheating for women, but not himself (and perhaps other men).

Pink_Nora_Rose
Pink_Nora_Rose
20 days ago

This is my cheater to a T. I still believe in his case it’s plain cognitive dissonance. He did believe it until he found twu wuv. then, borrowing from Groucho Marx, those used to be his principles and when he didn’t like them, he had others.

He told me he had been cheated on by his previous partner, with his Best Friend. It had crushed him. He had been so depressed that he missed an entire year of uni. He hated cheaters with a passion. When we watched The Devil Wears Prada he hated the main character because she is a cheater. I was the one going “Well, she’s not great, but she just didn’t know how to handle it…” and he went on to give me a very detailed reasoning about it, similar to what I read here on CL.

A few years later, when he started his own affair, he did tell me “Hey, remember that I used to think that infidelity is the worst in a relationship? So Best Friend told me something else and I think he’s right. He told me that infidelity is a symptom of problems in a relationship. What do you think?”

At the time I honestly thought he was asking for said friend, who did indeed have a history of cheating. And I said “Just tell Best Friend to leave his girlfriend and go live the single life”. It never even occurred to me that he was “just asking for a friend” or to ask why that had changed his own perception.

A week later he left me, and then I felt like an idiot for a long time for not seeing through this.

Yes, Best Friend was still the same who had cheated on him. Turns out FW did not hate cheaters, he just hated his ex.

ChumpyGirlKC
ChumpyGirlKC
20 days ago
Reply to  Pink_Nora_Rose

Funny how the narrative changes to suit their current needs or argument, isn’t it?

Pink_Nora_Rose
Pink_Nora_Rose
20 days ago
Reply to  ChumpyGirlKC

I didn’t realise it at the time, but looking back, this is ironically what saved me. He knew what it’s like, and I knew had always been staunchly against cheating, and that’s why I never even tried to convince him that he was in the wrong. He already knew.

I couldn’t put it in words back then, but my intuition worked in my favour. His only chance was to make me believe that I was to blame, and he did try, but NC swiftly shut that down.

It still took me way longer to really convince myself of all this.

daychumpbeliever
daychumpbeliever
20 days ago
Reply to  Pink_Nora_Rose

I love the way they use the cover of someone they know/knew to tell you about their “adventures”. A friend of mine/a guy I knew in high school/guy at work, etc. it wasn’t until my son was in high school that I caught on. My son told me about his teacher who always told crazy stories about a “freind”. My son said, yeah, every time he tells us about his freind, he’s just talking about himself. It suddenly hit me that my husband did the same thing. D-day followed shortly thereafter.

susie lee
susie lee
20 days ago

Mine did that Day. I didn’t catch on until about a week after he exited for his dream girl.

Honestly, I was so mad at myself. I felt so stupid. It didn’t last of course; I came to realize he was just a lying con artist. They hone their craft.

The last one he told me was about the firefighter who was doing his girlfriend in his office. He couldn’t say one of the police officers was doing it, because there were only 3 POs who had an office, and he was one of them. He knew I was not familiar with the FDd set up.

I am sure he and wh troll up ore got a big laugh out of it.

PeaceSeeker
PeaceSeeker
20 days ago

My fuckwit got a thrill out of telling me all about his exploits by pretending they were his friend’s. He told these wild stories and how disgusted he was and contemptuous of such behaviour. So incredibly twisted.

daychumpbeliever
daychumpbeliever
20 days ago
Reply to  PeaceSeeker

Exactly! They were so above it all, but it turns out so depraved.

Team_No_Contact
Team_No_Contact
20 days ago
Reply to  PeaceSeeker

That is sick. I’m so sorry.

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
20 days ago

Ex-Mrs LFTT’s father was a Cheater, and Ex-Mrs LFTT was absolutely aware of the devastating effects of her father’s cheating and the lengths to which he went to avoid “consequences” on her family ….. and yet not only did she cheat, she deployed her father’s “consequence avoidance strategies” against the kids and I when she got found out.

LFTT

Archer
Archer
19 days ago

FW narcopath own father’s also a serial cheater who abandoned them into poverty. I thought FW knew better than to repeat history bwahahaha

naturerocks
naturerocks
20 days ago

Oh yes, this is spot on.

My exes father cheated on his mother while my ex was in university, 10 years ago. He told me how he got into a fist fight with his father when he found out. Cheating was a deal breaker for him and he valued loyalty above all else.

I have screenshots of past chat history where we specifically discuss cheating and how he would never do that and we both respect each other enough that we would talk to the other person if we were unhappy enough to cheat.

The fallout of his father’s affair was constantly affecting his life. He expressed a lack of respect for his father’s AP (who he is still with). His aging mother was going to be his responsibility.

When we started dating, I had just gotten out of a 7 year relationship where I was cheated on. He knew this, he knew I was planning to stay single after that relationship but convinced me we were soul mates through love bombing and mirroring and weaving his “sad sausage my cheating father” story.

God damn he played me good.

Mr Wonderfuls Ex
Mr Wonderfuls Ex
20 days ago

Same experience here. I met him about 10 months after his fiancée dumped him. She packed her boxes and moved out and he claimed she never said why. Over the years, he hinted heavily that he believed she had been cheating on him as she took up with some wealthy guy very quickly after. He said she must have been a gold digger just like his family said. (They did say that. The girl had a reputation.)

We discussed cheating before we were married and it was clear that if one of us wanted out, we would part amicably and probably be friends forever because we wanted what was best for the other.

While we were married a dear friend of mine caught her husband cheating and they divorced. Klootzak couldn’t say enough about how horrible the cheater was to do that. Same thing when the Tiger Woods cheating came out.

It turns out cheating is only horrible to klootzak when other people are doing it and he isn’t part of the action.

Celene
Celene
20 days ago

I had the same experience. When we were teens my ex was extremely vocal about how much he hated other people for not controlling their “urges” and that he couldn’t stand cheaters. He had a lot of hate for many other negative traits as well, which made me think growing up that he would be a safe person to build a life with. Color me surprised in my mid 30’s when he turns into all the things he complained about and hated in his teens. He also pulled the whole “Coworker is having an inappropriate relationship” schtick to half confess what he was doing with his howorker. Fun times!

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
20 days ago

Oh yeah – said his father likely cheating on his mother, made comments about his friend going to strip clubs and how sad that was… Now I know that it was projection and just another way in which he tried to stay hidden and deflect any suspicions of wrongdoing.

Rarity
Rarity
20 days ago

Mine pretended to hate lying. When we got into conflicts with others, he would, “You know how you can tell she’s lying? Her mou

Rarity
Rarity
20 days ago
Reply to  Rarity

th is moving!”

(Sorry, hit post on accident.)

Last May his girlfriend of ~4 years left him for another man after cheating on him for a year. NOW he thinks cheating is just deplorable. No apology for what happened in our marriage, of course.

Best Thing
Best Thing
20 days ago
Reply to  Rarity

That must feel so great! One of my most cherished fantasies is that FW wakes up one morning with painful, burning urination. Not at 100% meh I guess.

whitney
whitney
20 days ago

When my husband of 52 years was caught with his latest escort his first words were “It’s not like you haven’t been cheating our entire married life.” ( did have a brief affair when I was 21 but it was never repeated.) Three grown kids and he decides to spend what little money he earned on escorts for the past two years.

When I found out I thought it was just that one time and tried to make it work. Turned out to be much longer, he was taking PreP and I was clueless. Imagine having to get a full STD panel when you’re 71.

topshelf
topshelf
20 days ago

I had the opposite experience. Cheater’s parents were both cheaters. His father’s second affair was discovered about a year after our marriage. While I was telling his father that his mistress would never be welcomed in our home, Cheater sat quietly and said nothing. A groomsmen in our wedding was also a cheater ( although we didn’t know that until shortly after the wedding). Again, cheater did not seem bothered. And his sister’s wife cheated on his sister. Again, no reaction from Cheater. At the time, I chalked it up to him being an extreme “conflict avoider”. D-day for me was 20 years later. After doing some digging, I now believe that he cheated on his fiance before me (but not with me) and cheated on me while we were dating.

topshelf
topshelf
20 days ago
Reply to  topshelf

*sister’s husband

PrincipledLife
PrincipledLife
20 days ago

For my STBX, the mask he wore hated cheating, deplored it, spoke ill of men and women who did it…but undeneath it was nothing but glee every time he hurt me.

LearningNotToDance
LearningNotToDance
20 days ago

Ex’s grandfather was a cheater. Ex worshipped his grandmother and expressed nothing but disgust for grandfather. Ex would have nothing to do with his two half-uncles that were the product of the affair and younger than him.
His whole family basically shunned grandfather.
I thought his attitude meant he would never do anything like that. I was wrong.

GoodFriend
GoodFriend
20 days ago

Fraudster said the cheaters at his job disgusted him, yet he sought friendships with the male cheaters.

Early in our marriage, when he was on a business trip, I told him I had been replaying a movie scene where the main characters first kissed because it reminded me of us. When he came home, he told me that he had to confess that at the same time I was watching, he had kissed a female colleague in their hotel. I was devastated. He assured me that he stopped almost immediately, did nothing more, and would never cheat. I believed him, but I think he was either testing the waters of how I’d react, or it was duper’s delight and he enjoyed my distress.

He pretended to be Mr. Integrity with high morals. He claimed to hate ling and liars. For decades, he recounted the outrageous lies allegedly and compulsively told by a former school classmate. Fellow classmates would say they never knew that or didn’t remember the person. In retrospect, I think he was bragging about lies he himself had told.

He did the same by repeatedly going out of his way to tell people our son had stolen tens of thousands of dollars from my personal account. He always said it with a smug smile. I told him more than once that he looked like he was bragging about it. Yup, he was; during separation, I learned to do electronic banking and saw Fraudster had transferred the money to himself. That was just the tip of the iceberg of his thefts. Hundreds of thousands from my non-marital assets, money from my parents, etc.

So yes, I think all of his “morality” was really fake outrage about other people supposedly doing the very things he did himself.

And years post-divorce, he’s still emailing lies about me to people who cut him off.

unicornomore
unicornomore
20 days ago
Reply to  GoodFriend

This sounds similar to my experience with my cheater. Early in our marriage, he had to go on an extended training assignment (he was military, so not rare) and when he returned, he got into a really weird mood one night and seeming dripping with sincerity, begged me to never cheat, that it would break him. I now think that he was subconsciously giving me a warning.

At around that time, he went to a lot of Mens’ Evenings (as required by the unwritten norms of the military as he described them to me) and he came home with strange stories of things he saw other guys doing. I now think he was testing my tolerance based in reaction to the stories he told.

So yea, he claimed he hated lying and cheating and told stories about others but Im rather convinced that most of those stories were altered confessions he made to soothe his conscience.

He presented himself as a Semper Fidelis Marine Officer and a Catholic Husband and dad and he was a mean cheater

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
20 days ago

Not in the “bold proclamation” sense. She was super territorial, though. Particularly in the early going she was terrified that I would look for or find “someone better”, didn’t like how a couple of female friends were talking to me (to my traitor’s credit-with at least one of them it came out in the wash years later that they were in fact trying to steal me. I actually made sure that one got married). I was respectful about it-if anybody started to cross a line she was the first to know and knew how I would be handling them moving forward.

When it came time for me to get jealous, though-all of the things she was paranoid about I was told I’d just have to live with. No communication, no reassurance.

Also, prolific shit-talker that she was at times, looking back on it, “cheater” was never in the list of character flaws that she would dress people(like my mother) down about. For someone that revered Beyonce…what Jay-Z did to her and how that made her a better person never seemed to come up in conversation.

Have a Traitor Free Friday!

Divorced Wine Aunt
Divorced Wine Aunt
20 days ago

The Cheating Bastard was so happy when his mom moved several states over to live with us for a while, because she was secretly dating a Married Man! who Still Kept His Ring On! and how horrible that was! Welp, twenty years later he himself was a Married Man who Still Kept His Ring On, and was secretly dating someone. 🙄 Rules for thee, not for me.

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
20 days ago

I thought I was married to a guy like Forrest Gump. A really nice guy with a good heart who would never hurt me, who loved me. That we were intelligent about different things, in different ways, and complementary.

He hated the movie Fatal Attraction.

It took me 27 years to discover I was not married to a guy like Forrest Gump but a guy like Michael Douglas’ character in Fatal Attraction, which is most likely why he hated that movie.

😪

PeaceSeeker
PeaceSeeker
20 days ago
Reply to  Velvet Hammer

Omg same—he was such a good actor! He would joke about how “dark” he was because he seemed so nice—bland, even. I had no idea he was cheating the entire time i believed us “together” with escorts, friends, neighbours, colleagues—anyone and everyone. Still really hurts and enrages me.

Karit
Karit
20 days ago

He talked about cheating a lot. He told me when one of his friends cheated and he knew how much I hated cheaters. I was disgusted by this. He was so disgusted with a friend of mine for cheating on her husband. He didn’t want to talk to her again. And even after I found out about the affair we found out the neighbors husband cheated. He was going on and on about how terrible it was to her. He felt so bad for her. I was just looking at him like WTF! I wonder now if all the stories about his friends were really him. Disgusting!

eurochump
eurochump
20 days ago

My (soon-to-be-ex) husband’s mom had an affair when my husband was a teenager. His parents actually reconciled and she never did it again but he always said how traumatizing this was for him. He also has an uncle who is a pedo and sex addict and my husband always said how disgusting it is that he is cheating on his aunt and that she should just leave him.

One thing I noticed is that he was always jealous and told me so many times that he was scared I would go look for someone else. Which was ridiculous because I am a Christian and when I said those vows I actually MEANT them.

In the meantime, he paid for escorts, webcam girls and watched porn. Yikes.

Pretty sure he thought I would never leave because people in his culture always stay in destructive marriages. Alas, I am a Westerner and I don’t care.

2xchump
2xchump
20 days ago

This is a news flash for me!! Both my cheaters were against creepy men, porn and cheaters…though there was a big hint on cheater 1# …my brother in law cheated big time on my sister. As I was crying my eyes out about the shock to out family…my cheater said, “WELL THAT’S BETTER THAN SHOOTING HIS WHOLE FAMILY!! OKAY. There’s that! #2 Cheater hated creepy men, told me his acts of bravery against men who liked his own little girl..but when I talked about PORN out loud and told him how it hurts woman.etc..he just GOT completely SILENT. I knew he had confessed phone sex and was broken when I found out. But he never stopped so just went silent. That too is a warning. Yes #2 was cheated on by his wife..so never would I suspect he could hurt me like he was “so hurt”. They lie. Period

susie lee
susie lee
20 days ago

He definitely did the being judgmental of others for cheating thing. Not to excess, just enough to throw me off I suppose.

A few years after marrying wh troll-ip ore, and moving to another near by city, he decided to become a preacher. He conned the preacher into letting him have a go at it, and did the fire and brimstone type preaching. My daughter in law told me about it. She said it even embarrassed wh troll-ip ore. That scam didn’t last long. He caused a lot of chaos in the church, and he was asked to stand down, or leave. He chose to leave, go to another state (he retired by then), and find a new group to scam. Don’t know how that worked out.

Brandon
Brandon
20 days ago

She told me several times throughout the relationship that being cheated on was her biggest fear in a relationship and to just tell her if I ever did. She actually acknowledged this after discovery but didn’t apologize, just sort of an, “I know I even said such and such about cheating, but this is different …”

Rensselaer
Rensselaer
20 days ago

Yup. Cheaty McLiarface and I had many conversations concerning our mutually agreed upon viewpoint of infidelity betrayal. I had already left a relationship over cheating and he knew the entire story. When Joyfil Jil actually reciprocated one of his chronic infatuations he pretended that he wasn’t in an affair by setting boundaries for himself. One of them was that he never touched her. Not even a hug so he says. Yes, you read that correctly.

Our conversations concerning betrayal was him mirroring my stance. A classic narcissistic behavior. I know now that no amount of succinct communication is going to stop entitlement behaviors.

Bruno
Bruno
20 days ago

My Jesus cheater has a very close childhood girlfriend who was having an affair with a married coworker. She was very critical of this, but mostly because she felt the guy would never leave his wife to be with her. Then another girlfriend’s husband was openly cheating on her with a much younger woman. FW was furious, even though she was cheating on me at the same time, although I wasn’t aware of it. So much hypocrisy…

Rensselaer
Rensselaer
20 days ago

Therapy speak allowed Cheaty McLiarface to label it as “learned behavior.” He watched his father do it so there’s that reascuse. You can’t make sense out of the nonsensical, emotionally immature, fantasy based, chronic liars that cheaters are. They have entitlement based character and there isn’t enough therapy in the universe that can change that way of thinking. Especially when they’ve had a trusting chump by their side for decades.

OutButNotDown
OutButNotDown
20 days ago

My ex hated the song “Human” (1986) by The Human League because of the excuse for infidelity which the song is all about.

He also hated the suspected cheating his dad did which (he thinks) was a big factor in breaking up his parents’ marriage.

Turns out what he hated was the same propensity for cheating within him. A propensity he acted out with 2 affairs that I know of, and other shenanigans I only knew about from having an STD. (Which got explained away at the time by our face-saving doctor as being picked up from a toilet seat. I knew deep down it couldn’t have ben true then, and have had it confirmed by several OB/GYNs since then that it wasn’t possible.)

Oh he was “only human, born to make mistakes” as the song goes, alright! And then lie and deceive about them. MY big mistake was trusting him.

ChumpyGirlKC
ChumpyGirlKC
20 days ago

Oh yeah, FW#2 said he didn’t enjoy it at all, NONE, he said emphatically! Of course he didn’t, that’s why he did it day after day, week after week, month after month until I caught him about 5 months in. I told him BS, no one does something they don’t like doing or hate doing repetitively. Just abusurd what they want us chumps to believe. They truly believe we are dumb

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
20 days ago

100%. His ex cheated on him in college, and he was sooo… upset about it. His dad cheated on his mom after 20+ years of marriage and left her for his mistress. For years, I heard nothing about how awful his dad was for doing that, and while they weren’t estranged, he struggled, and resented having to see the mistress and pretend that wasn’t what she was.

He also used to complain about how his dad worked so much and wasn’t present for him during his childhood.

He hated his dad’s lies.

Whelp. Guess which parent he most closely resembles now in his life choices?

I really thought I was safe because he clearly hated his absent-ish, cheater dad. Probably contributed to why I spackled and made excuses. “He couldn’t actually be this shady and checked out, because all he ever said was how much he hated that behavior in his dad,” type of thinking.

I don’t have a lot of time for dating, nor interest as of late, but when I do I absolutely pay attention to the kind of parents anyone I date had/has because at the end of the day, that’s the moral figure they had. Especially fathers since that was the male role model.

Archer
Archer
19 days ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

Sounds exactly like my exH FW narcopath. I should have run screaming the other way decades ago when I noted FW father was a grandiose narcissist.

Team_No_Contact
Team_No_Contact
20 days ago

He wasn’t particularly vocal about cheating, even when it was revealed in three different family relationships — including his own father later in life. A grim headshake always conveyed what I assumed was disapproval.

Maybe his growing emotional dysregulation eventually overpowered his values. Or maybe he was sympathetic to the cheaters all along. I’ll never really know. Realizing that he was always only looking out for himself was all I really needed to know.

thumper
thumper
20 days ago

I was told a sob story about how painful it had been that FW’s father had been a serial adulterer. So I did not suspect. As it turns out, the apple did not fall far from the tree. I had been cheated on since BEFORE the marriage. What a waste of my time and my children’s time.

PeaceAtLast
PeaceAtLast
20 days ago

No anti-cheater talk from my cheater. I actually had a true window into his entitled cheater brain. 13 years before my DDay, when it came to light that Tiger Woods betrayed Elin, I said, « How awful for Elin ». In response, my then spouse said, « She mustn’t have been getting it done at home. » And, something to the effect that she came out of it all right. She now has a lot more money than she otherwise would have. Another telling thing he said was that if he won the mega lottery he would spend it on « hookers and blow ». He apparently accomplished the hooker part of his dream without winning the lottery. When the Robert Kraft story broke, about 2 years before my DDay, by which time cheaterpants was getting a lot of Asian « massages», he was totally silent.

gigglypineapple
gigglypineapple
20 days ago

My cheater was so disgusted by cheating that he could not even watch it in films and tv series. He actually had to turn it off or fast forward. It was really odd, especially since I don’t think he was cheating on me at that time. Maybe he had with past partners and felt guilty? He didn’t seem that disgusted by his own cheating later though!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
20 days ago

“Psychopathic compartmentalization”?

Elsie_
Elsie_
20 days ago

Pretending is part of the overall pattern of lying, the denial, and the delusion of it all. As my attorney said several times, I was the person who unmasked my STBX for what he was, and so all of the attacks and threats in what should have been a very quick, easy divorce, just dividing retirement assets and cars. And it went on and on, even when the closeout was supposedly over, and my ex decided to play lawyer after his died.

I tried to figure out what I could do to stop it other than using Bill Eddy’s BIFF method. I wasn’t in the mood for any more legal action, and thankfully, my ex lived in another state. When I was closing my case with my attorney and ranting about that, he said, “Bide your time and shoot me an email anytime to reopen your case.” He gave me email scripts for several possible scenarios and said to contact him if that didn’t work. Well, one scenario did come up, and the email script worked. I didn’t need my attorney.

The answer was that my ex finally paired up long-term with a woman who believed his victimhood and all the lies. And it’s been years now since we heard from him.

No more lies and pretending.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
20 days ago

There’s a cop character in James Ellroy’s novel LA Confidential and in the film based on it who hates abusers so much that he goes around like a violent Robin Hood beating up or sometimes extrajudicially killing men who abuse women. The backstory is that his father beat his mother to death in front of him as a kid. Anyway– spoiler– one of the plot points is the character finding he hasn’t rolled too far from the tree when he violently assaults his own girlfriend for presumed disloyalty.

I hated the ending (spoiler again) where the character reconciles with his own victim and we’re supposed to believe his hypocritical turn was a lamentable one-off event that would never be repeated. But I didn’t really object to the bit where the character was shocked by his own behavior. I also appreciate Ellroy’s exploration of “compulsive reenactment” because the typical way that this subject is handled in books and films is that the characters who hate their childhood abusers always grow up to be heroes. At least Ellroy’s handling of it contains a bit of a caveat that this isn’t always true, even if the author partially withdraws it.

Ellroy’s observation also fits what I’ve seen in reality, which is that several guys I knew who, when young, were open about the woes of growing up with violent male role models in a way that made them seem thoroughly incapable of repeating the patterns eventually repeated the patterns (including cheating because DV goes hand in hand with it).

Because I met these guys through the the media industry, some eventually gained enough notoriety for their “denouements” to end up in the news. Some of the stories were really horrible. But, at least when they were young, I honestly don’t think they were trying to throw anyone off the scent because they hadn’t yet done anything heinous and probably fully believed they’d broken family generational cycles. So I suspect no one was more surprised at first at their eventual hypocrisy than they were.

At least at first though all abusers end up dangerously jaded and adept at blameshifting. That should rightfully have been the sequel to LA Confidential.

I did know several other men who were clearly being hypocritical from the get go and in real time– meaning they were being abusive to partners even while telling sad backstories of growing up with abuse. But what’s the difference when it all ends up the same anyway? Sadly in the case of male survivors of severe abuse/dv in childhood, too many end up chips off the old block even whether they’d started out hoping for a different outcome or not. That’s one of the reason I’m never moved by abusers’ sad tales of woe from childhood even when they think they mean it. I’m only moved when the individual doesn’t end up an abuser in their own right.

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
18 days ago

Hi HOAC: one way it makes a difference whether the fw sincerely believed they had avoided going the way of their father before they reverted is that it makes it more confusing to the chump.

For a long time, I thought he was a success story, someone who’d escaped the shadow of his damaged parents and his teenage delinquency.

Last edited 18 days ago by Chumpty Dumpty
Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
18 days ago
Reply to  Chumpty Dumpty

Yes, so true that a lie is far more credible and potentially dangerous when the liar believes it.

Amelia
Amelia
18 days ago

Also, I wonder to what extent their contempt for certain behaviors collides with the value systems and coping strategies they (subconsciously) adopted growing up. For example, someone might condemn cheating, yet may have a strong sense of entitlement and/or a pathological fear of being alone, and this might lead them to act the same way their parents did (similarly to how some people become addicts despite hating their parents’ drinking). I think tackling those problems requires much more effort than simply condemning certain behaviors verbally.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
18 days ago
Reply to  Amelia

The way that duplicity was explained to me by the consulting psychologist for the advocacy network I worked with is that abusers tend to be so compartmentalized that they have “semi-split” personalities.

Something else that was explained to me is that this level of f*ckedupedness isn’t “fixable” so if we’re untangling skeins here, it’s not because we’re knitting a unicorn lol.

Anyhow, I’ve given this spiel before so forgive the redundancy. From what I understand, the schism isn’t quite on the level of dissociative personality disorder where you could imagine floor-to-ceiling “walls” between personae so that one personality doesn’t know of the existence of others. It’s more like “office partitions” with one central, evil, organizing personality orchestrating all the “personalities.”

In other words, this isn’t the same as mental illness where the individual doesn’t have control of what they do but more a criminal disorder because each personality knows of the others and the individual organizes this in self serving ways. But, hypothetically, there’s still the tendency for the person to deeply invest in each different “character” they’re “inhabiting” at any given time– a process dubbed “cubing” by BTK serial killer Denis Rader. The latter might explain the experience of many victims that their partner had been abducted by aliens or had a brain tumor.

What’s more, from what many abuse survivors describe, these different personalities can also come with their own differing memories, perspectives, tastes, politics or even handwriting. But it’s still akin to method acting which, while very absorbing, doesn’t mean the individual isn’t aware that they’re being manipulative and duplicitous on some level.

One misleading personality “fragment” that all abusers apparently carry around with them is their former “victim self” which even the abuser themselves may believe is a genuine part of them so that, when they’re in that “mode,” they think it’s a fixed and permanent state of their core personality even though they will typically trot out the “victim self” in moments when it would serve them to seem disarming or use pity ploys to evade consequences.

To the extent that the victim self was once genuine and to the extent that abusers almost kinda sorta think it’s their true self, it can seem very credible to bystanders. This individual might cry buckets at chick flicks or over, say, lost puppies in the pound or landmine victims half a world away. But that’s only because the abuser might be momentarily projecting themselves onto other victims, not experiencing actual affective empathy.

From the explanation I was given, it sounds like this victim self is more like the light of a star reaching earth millions of years after that star died. Unlike real survivors who would be loath to subject others to the suffering they once endured, abusers are more like poltergeists who go around tormenting the living by subjecting them to the worst of what the ghoul once suffered when “alive.”

The latter is sometimes called compulsive reenactment. I don’t know if anyone understands what drives it so still it’s up for conjecture. Personally I think it might be driven by a deranged superstition that develops in the zero sum dynamics of abusive homes where children are conditioned to unquestioningly believe that they can either be a helpless victim or a dominant perpetrator but nothing in between. Consequently, dominating others and causing helplessness and suffering in others become a kind of calming ritual because only by being an active perpetrator can they quell the constant haunting terror of being victimized.

To me, that compulsive need to induce powerlessness and suffering bears a little resemblance to OCD– the need of obsessive compulsive people to, say, touch a doorknob fifty times before leaving the house to ward off some imagined misfortune. But it’s obviously a lot darker than OCD and much darker than addiction even if it also sort of resembles process addictions like gambling. For one, most addicts only progress to being callous to others as their compulsions escalate but most didn’t start out that way. Meanwhile, the “addiction” to dominating and causing suffering obviously depends on callousness right out of the gate. Obviously bottles, pills and poker chips don’t display palpable pain when “consumed” but human victims do. And, again, inducing that suffering may be largely the point of committing abuse.

Again, sorry to repeat this stuff but maybe some newbies will find it interesting.

chumpatude
chumpatude
20 days ago

My ex-f*ckwit rises to every Friday challenge, not because he’s special (as he believes), but because he’s so predictable. He was vehemently anti-cheater. He insinuated that his partner before me had cheated on him. I naively believed this was true and thought it excused his jealousy and controlling behavior. When I confronted him post D day and mentioned his supposed chump experience, I could tell by the look on his face that it had all been a lie. Later, I started piecing together various things he had said over the years and realized that he had probably cheated on her.

My ex-FW comes from a long line of cheaters. His dad discarded his mom for a younger co-worker (just like ex-FW did to me). His tweaker sister cheated on her husband. In both cases, ex-FW claimed to hate the AP’s, but tellingly, he didn’t seem to place any blame his dad or sister and really didn’t show any empathy towards his mom or ex-brother-in-law. After dad’s marriage to his AP ended (she cheated on him), ex-FWs mom and dad remarried. I used to think this was romantic, but now it just grosses me out.

LessConfusedNow
LessConfusedNow
19 days ago

Yes! His dad cheated on his mom AND abandoned her, him, and his brother. His dad lives about a mile from our house and we never visited except once when our kids were babies because he was estranged from his father due to his abandonment. My kids at one point didn’t even recognize their grandfather. That was one reason why I thought he would never cheat.
So what did wasband do? Yep. He cheated and abandoned me just like his dad! Although he didn’t take all the money like his dad did. Crazy.

TheArtOfChumping
TheArtOfChumping
19 days ago

FW never said he hated cheaters. Three years before Dday, when I think he had his first big meet up on a business trip with the OW after covid, I was at home and stumbled upon Beyoncé’s Homecoming on Netflix. I was totally captivated. I watched it a few times when he was gone for that business trip and then really enjoyed listening for the years afterwards while working from home. They lyrics really didn‘t hit home to me. It had not hit me what it meant to be betrayed, but somehow I think I knew subconsciously what was going on. One time the shame must have gotten the best of him because he totally lost it when I was listening to it. No idea what he said anymore, but it was so strange. It was like he panicked. In the months before Dday, he got really strange. Out of the blue once he said that his mom cheated on his dad. And that his sister cheated on her husband. I tried to talk to him about it. How did he feel? How did he find out? How did this affect everyone? And he just shut down and didn‘t talk about it anymore ever. It was so weird. And another time he said he was driving or running or something and went past a van parked down by the lake and said he could tell people were having s** in it because it was shaking, but with this kind of illicit undertone that this supposed couple in the van were doing something very naughty (instead of being a couple or married or something). It was so weird. Reading CN posts on this one was very helpful. Thanks everyone.

susie lee
susie lee
19 days ago

I don’t think this is exactly the same thing, but I just remembered it: When he was doing his big confession to me, he said “I am just not a good liar” this was said less than 5 minutes after he had just told me he never loved me and had been “dating” for ten years. That is all within a 20 year marriage. I was so stunned at it all, I really didn’t respond, but in hind sight I wish I had said: don’t sell yourself short, you have been successfully pulling off a scam for 20 years, by your own words. You are in fact a great liar.

stillachump
stillachump
19 days ago

This really hits home to me in so many ways. I’m having trouble reading others stories and explaining why I so relate to it. It’s too close and too recent. And I’m so glad Chump Lady is talking about it.

Archer
Archer
19 days ago

Shakespeare had it right when he noted the “doth protest too much” phenomenon.
FW apparently went on about being disgusted by his cheating father to a coworker and wife at an party eons ago but I don’t know why he did that? I wasn’t within earshot so his performance was for what exactly?
It does bother me a lot of FW go around smearing chumps and claiming they (FW) were cheated on, to explain the divorce and lure in new partners. Makes me wonder who in the community or extended family thinks I’m a cheater?

susie lee
susie lee
18 days ago
Reply to  Archer

Cheaters remind me of hyenas, they will cower to your face, but once your back is turned they start the attack.

Archer
Archer
19 days ago

Projection mixed with insecurity:
“Individuals often condemn in others what they secretly dislike or fear about themselves, using it to divert attention from their own issues.”

Rensselaer
Rensselaer
18 days ago

Cheaty McLiarface was a teen when his father briefly left the family for his next O.W. His mother took him back and they remained married until death they did part. It wasn’t a tale of humility and changed behaviors. It was two emotionally unhealthy people who refused to change and used each other as an echo chamber. I think Cheaty would have been satisfied if I had fulfilled that same role, staying in an unhealthy dynamic. And I would have been inclined but unlike his mother I needed more than just one apology and piece of jewelry to carry on.

Viktoria
Viktoria
18 days ago

Yes eX worked in an industry known for low morals (“but my husband is different, right?”) and he would come home to me and report how shocked he was that, while on assignments, male coworkers had invited him to go with them to strip clubs, massage parlors and “shows”. He described how he declined, took his takeout to spend the evening all by himself in his hotel room while they went out. Yes I believed him. Incredible to me now. Keep in mind, we were heavily involved in the conservative fundamentalist Church world. Back then, I sincerely believed he loved me, took his Christian wedding vows seriously and actually believed that adultery was wrong and (for us) incomprehensible to consider. Funny how I thought I knew him.

Viktoria
Viktoria
18 days ago
Reply to  Viktoria

Should add that he’d say things like, “That’s just terrible!” while shaking his head in disapproval at the other men’s actions. Such a good actor.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
16 days ago

Oh yes. One of his favorite TV shows was “Cheaters”. We’d watch it and he’d have all kinds of nasty things to say about those people.

One of our (his) friends was in an open marriage and her husband STILL went behind her back and broke their rules. My FW had a LOT to say about that and encouraged his friend to get a divorce. A few years later at a party, she was talking about this with him and he expressed utter disdain for her ex husband’s cheating and said he believed in monogamy. I found out later that HE HAD BEEN F-ING AP FOR FOUR YEARS at that time. He also seemed really sad whenever any of our friends would get divorced and say he’d never screw up our marriage they way they jhad screwed up theirs… Well.

AP also had SO MUCH to say (negative) about the fact that her husband moved another woman into their house only weeks after she left, and how awful he was for that. Meanwhile she was screwing around with MY husband while I was STILL LIVING IN MY HOUSE. On one occasion (after FW and I had separated but unfortunately were still spending some time together because FW was recovering from surgery – my mistake) she said, in reference to her situation, “why would I want to be with someone who would replace me at the drop of a hat?” To which I replied, “That’s a good question.” She got a look like a deer in the headlights, got super upset, and left the house. FW got upset with me becuase I upset AP. LOL, what? She had no consideration of me, since she was discussing her custody battle in front of me while FW and I were in the middle of our own, in large part due to her.

Who knows how these people think.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
16 days ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

Oh yeah, and FW’s mom had had an affair when he was a child and he LOATHED her for that. But his dad was a violent alcoholic, and my FW ended up behaving just like him.

Some of us look at our parents or other adults and decide we don’t want to be like them and make a concerted effort to do things differently. FW hated his parents and ended up behaving in exactly the same ways that made him hate them. When I’d point this out, he’d go ballistic.

Blue42
Blue42
12 days ago

My Exwasband was very very vocal about the cornerstones of his existence: Loyalty and Honor

Absolutely laughable considering he’d try for any female with a pulse that sat still long enough.