I Don’t Need Your Permission
Chump Lady is going to get ranty today. Heads up. Incoming!
Recently an infidelity therapist of the unicorn persuasion tweeted an article at me from the Huffington Post to which she’d contributed, on the issue of “once a cheater, always a cheater.”
Here’s a sampling, this one from Tammy Nelson (not the person who sent it to me, btw):
“People who say a cheater can’t change have never felt the awful guilt that comes when you realize you’ve made a terrible mistake by having a one-night stand or an affair,” she said. “They’ve never gone to bed at night staring at the ceiling, wishing there was anything you could do to take back the hurt you’ve inflicted on your partner. If they had, they would perhaps not be so self-righteous in their judgment.”
Likewise, Tammy, people who say cheaters can change have never suffered their fourth D-Day and found a scary Pap smear to the contrary.
Oh, and people with actual remorse don’t characterize those they’ve harmed as self-righteous. Perhaps you need to stare at that ceiling a bit longer, Tammy.
Let’s substitute some other wrongdoing and see how dumb this sounds.
People who say slave owners can’t change have never felt the awful guilt that comes when you realize you’ve made the terrible mistake of enslaving Africans. Whether it was one slave or several thousand… They’ve never gone to bed at night staring at the ceiling, wishing there was anything they could do to take back the hurt of lashing Jonah for not making his cotton yield quotas. If they had had one of those long, horrible nights of regretful ceiling-staring, perhaps they would not be so self-righteous in their judgment.
Why, when someone does a shitty thing, is the emphasis on the hope they may change over recompenses for the actual damage they did? You stared at a ceiling? Well, bully for you, Sad Sausage!
“Can cheaters change?” is asking the wrong question. It’s not about whether or not people can change (they can) – it’s about at what personal cost will you take that risk in another’s potential? You’ve been harmed. You bought a lousy Ford Pinto and the gas tank exploded. Can Ford rework the Pinto? I suppose. That doesn’t mean you want to get back into the charred shell of a car and drive. We have lemon laws for a reason.
Putting aside the whole issue of personality disorders and those folks not being wired for empathy (Cluster Bs), why would your average cheater want to give up entitlement? Power and cake feel so awesome. Humility not so much. My arguments on the odds of character transplants can be read here.
Anyway, “can cheaters change” is not even the little nugget of stupid that got me upset. After sending me unicorn links for my edification, it was these follow up tweets:
I worry about so-called experts, too, like ppl who are cheated on and then offer advice
The greater danger: professional offering advice based on falsehood. Or on anecdotal
OH MY GOD. Somebody got CHEATED ON and OFFERED ADVICE? Jesus Christ! Like, they actually based their advice on something they EXPERIENCED? And didn’t go to a sexologist Orlando, Florida strip mall diploma mill (coughTammyNelson…cough) and get a degree in bullshit? Or have some preconceived idea about religion, or polyamory, or divorce busting, or WTFer, but instead gave trial-tested advice based in REALITY?
Hey, I’m just an African history, M.A. and my fuzzy liberal arts brain doesn’t do science, but as I recall science is based upon observable data. And patterns. And drawing logical conclusions. You get several million people on a blog recounting stories that bear startling similarities to one another, I think you can draw a few conclusions. What’s your data set, asshole?
Anyway, you don’t have to like the advice I give. I don’t pretend to be anything other than a chump. My credentials are prominently on display. Fact is, I don’t need your permission to tell my story.
Sorry Gatekeepers of the Infidelity Narrative, they have these modern tools now and anyone can broadcast anything they want. Blog, podcast, twitter…
Of course you can broadcast all you want. If it resonates, is another matter. Blog is about to flip 12 million this week. I think it resonates.
Chumps, here’s your Friday challenge — SPEAK UP. You don’t need ANYONE’s permission to tell your story. Got advice? Got a story? Tell me how you’re getting it out there in the world and across the inter webs. TGIF.
This, this, so much this. As someone else commented on a previous CL post:
“The absolute one thing abusers love is your silence.”
Sure, people *can* change. But do they? How often? Want to bet your life on it? How about your kids’ lives. No thanks, unicorn peddlers.
My STBX is mad that I told our daughter the truth. He texted me that everything was fine but I couldn’t keep by big mouth shut. I told him he should have kept his zipper shut. He says he’s sorry to our daughter but his actions show no remorse. No humility. In fact, he texted our daughter that her attitude is the problem (she doesn’t want to see him or his girlfriend now). It’s never their fault. It’s always someone else’s. He texted me that since he saw his mom have an affair years ago – it sucked but he got over it. So his daughter will just have to get over it. I didn’t tell her he said that.
She didn’t want to see him this weekend. I didn’t take her. He got so mad. But I have to protect my daughter. I couldn’t make her go. She told me, “My dad’s an asshole.”
Their mentality is so twisted. I feel sick most of the time thinking about this.
I guess my take on this article is different . He already cheated. He is already gone. Who cares who I tell (and I tell EVERYONE, which he hates). He lost the privelege of a “nice guy” reputation when he began doing drugs and having affairs. Sorry sweetheart, actions have consequences, as we have taught our children.
My issue with this author’s point of view is: Who Cares if Once A Cheater Always a Cheater is true or not? The fact is, they cheated (as many times as you know of). He could join the priesthood for all I care (not that a vow of chastity coming from him would mean anything). I simply cannot get past the fact that he did it – twice that I know of. He now totally disgusts me although, for some reason, I still love him. But not this version of him.
Bottom line – I do believe people are capable of true change, albeit rarely. I am not willing to wait around biting my nails, dealing with palpitations, and the effect his actions have had on my children, to find out.
I’m in 100% agreement, @sara_esq. Sure, some people can change. But consequences are a thing. And regardless of what flimsily may or may not “change” in the future, we chumps have to do what’s best for our families and our sanities right now. And keep doing what’s best.
Sara_esq, I’m glad you told everyone. I didn’t tell his people, and I should have. Anyway, I’m glad you posted because I don’t feel like such a freak now, still loving my ex, or maybe the dream of my ex, not sure. And at the same time not wanting to touch him with a 10′ pole. Maybe a 2 x 4?
Fifi – I think it is fundamentally within us Chumps to continue trying to see the good in others. Especially those we loved most, even if he or she no longer exists. We keep hoping to our detriment. I do not want to lose that quality, and I will not allow Hugh (Hefner – now on CPAP, viagara and dealing with multiple women) take that from me. Nor should you. Hugs.
I read an article about this – how me MUST NOT project our compassion on to a narcissist because it keeps us hooked and affects them not one little bit.
Still struggling with this one.
I am so in love with Mr. Darcy – it is pathetic. 🙂
I think of it as loving a fictional character, like ‘loving’ Darcy from “Pride and Prejudice,” or ‘loving’ Atticus Finch from “To Kill a Mockingbird.”
I am so in love with Mr. Darcy – it is pathetic. 🙂
The irony is that I used to think of my British X as Mr. Darcy. Now I think of him as Hannibal Lecher/Lechter.
Yes!! And the Darcy from “Bridget Jones’s Diary.” So yeah. Colin Firth. Sigh.
He (CF) was so yummy in that movie.
Exactly, Tempest! Great way to look at it.
Sorry. Privilege.
My SBTX told me I wasn’t allowed to tell anyone what he did. Apparently the pain and misery he caused me wasn’t enough, I was supposed to suffer in silence too, so he kept looked like a nice guy.
I did tell (EVERYONE, even strangers) – and most people do not believe me. Certainly not anyone in his family – and even strangers find the story to be very far fetched, they can’t believe anyone would do such things. Neither can I, yet he did. It happened.
^THIS.
My SBTX also told me not to tell anyone what he did because he was “ashamed of his actions.” He was so ashamed that he kept a profile on the tinder like site for a few more years and cheated at least once more that I know of. After I finally filed for divorce, I told people what he did. That just got me emails filled with the wrath of kahn from him and his mom. (Now we know where he got it from?) Apparently, I was being vindictive for daring to tell people and for taking half our money out of the joint account. It never occurred to them that maybe I needed someone to talk to after several years of suffering in silence or that I wisely needed to protect myself financially. The best part is that my ex mil got all upset and had to bitch at us, because she didn’t like the way the wedding planning was going. After a few months, she couldn’t hold her feelings about those minor things in anymore. But, hey, I’m vindictive, for finally spilling the pain I held in for several years.
LOL!
CKOL, men said this was between us, then tried to get me to sign a confidentiality agreement.
I laughed at that too!
I told him that our marriage was between us and he’s the one who messed that up so I didn’t feel compelled to. Keep anything just between us any longer.
My own sister does not believe the truth. And we have always been like Rosanne and Jackie. It is my last unfinished business … to figure out how I wish to proceed with that relationship. “Jackie” is also a cheater.
Dixie, I too have a sister who doesn’t believe such a nice guy as my STBX could do the things I say.
I had to divorce her as she was so unhealthy righteous and controlling.
I don’t need her to believe me; I know what my seriel cheating, secret affair spending account hiding, not so nice STBX did.
No more unhealthy people in my life. The past 35 years I had my fill of them. I choose my own health, happiness and well being now.
I wish you insight and truth in making your sister relationship decision.
You’re so strong and your moniker is fitting, FreeNow. There are a few toxic family members I no longer have regular contact with, including my sister. Holidays and birthdays were such drama-filled affairs and would trigger my self-destructive coping. I now decline invitations to whole family affairs and just see the ones I want, separately, which is a way more fun and relaxed option.
FreeNow, thank you for your comment. It makes me feel less alone. I mean what sister doesn’t believe her other sister?! My thinking at the moment is that she and I have always been incredibly close and have shared everything over all these years, some good and some bad. I love her unconditionally and could never turn my back on her nor want her out of my life. But I definitely have moved a step back from her and view her opinions and advice in a very different light. Truthfully, although she is 5 years older than me, I have *always* been the Rosanne in this duo. But I won’t deny that it hurts.
Same story with me, Dixie. 🙁
Sorry, I should add that I meant the Rosanne and Jackie relationship. She does believe my story and lives one of her own.
ChumpyKindofLove: I wouldn’t usually take it upon myself to speak for all of Chump Nation (all 12 Million of us) but in this case I’m certain I speak for all of us when I say: We believe you! Tell your story here. As many times as you want or need to. I will listen. We will listen. And we will believe every word ❤
I ditto what KJ said to ChumpyKindofLove.
My family and co-workers believed me. They *know* me well enough to know that I never spoke bad about my spouse for 20 years. They saw it all played out. People who don’t believe your story, you don’t need in your life (if they are close friends.) We here at CN will believe you, validate you and cheer you on to Gaining a Life, cheater-free!
That’s a good point Martha. I never talked badly of the traitor until a year after I found out the extend and depth of his betrayals and exploitation. So although people find my story hard to believe, because it is so abnormal, most don’t doubt me. But people do get tired of whingers, so I have learned to talk about more pleasant subjects. After all, talking isn’t going change the shit storm with the traitor and the whore anyway. Being forced to focus on more pleasant subjects isn’t such a bad thing. I spend too long chewing this bitter cud on my own!
Chumps, the very big club at CN believes you and here you can have a rant too, we get it!!
@ChumpyKindofLove… No one believes my story either. Seriously…. this upstanding family man beat his wife in front of his young children and his parents joined in too?
I read the emails were STBXH calls me a fu@king c*nt to his mistress while smiling in my face. How he tells his mistress how wonderful she is and how they need to be together. I couldn’t believe it either. I had NO idea how much contempt he had towards me.
When I was married to him (together 16 years) he never had any money and I loved him anyway. Now, he’s a big spender! But on her and her kids, not his own.
I long to tell my story, to be heard and understood. But it makes people uncomfortable and at the end of the day, nothing will change. I’ve noticed that people seem to think that I MUST be somehow at fault. Then I get these gems:
*The divorce is for the best.
*Just. Get. Over. It!
* Let it Go.
*Don’t be bitter
*This too shall pass
I also need to “own my part” in the divorce where he dumped his family for the OW and her family.
And on and on.
So I keep my mouth shut. I talk to my therapist, few and very select friends and Chump Nation because I know that you get it.
And that’s my (untold)Story.
Precious Cynamon and fellow Chumps sharing in this conversation—–.
Here is another awesome, life-saving, affirming post at Self-Care Haven.
https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/2016/11/04/breaking-the-codependency-myth-the-power-of-the-trauma-bond/
(I tried to get this to “link” but no-can-do this time…..You will need to ‘copy & paste’)
Some of my fellow chumps likely are already subscribed to this blog, as it was here at ChumpNation that I learned about Ms.Arabi. For those of you not yet familiar with her blog and books……PLEASE subscribe and buy her books! Describes to a “T” what we have endured at the hands of the cheater. Helps so much in the healing, getting past, getting over, getting on with our cheater-free lives!
Love that all of you continue to ForgeOn!!!!
ForgeOn, I am late acknowledging this remarkable article and you! I do hope you receive this.
Such an accurate and precise explanation of trauma bonding. I’ve likely read the same thing before, but something about the cleanness of her writing just drove home the fundamental fact that this ‘love’ (or in my case ‘adoration’) is the result of this process. I was entirely happy and independent before this man arrived in my life. And I am totally in love with the phrase “discard the narcissist’! My mission defined.
Thank you immensely. I have to confess that last week as I struggled with another rogue wave of grief, I was chanting quietly to myself during the night, “Forge on!” It was the only comfort I could find! Your moniker was helping while you were sleeping!!!!! Blessings, V
Forge on, thank you for that post…I read it and it was way too familiar. I think I would have been traumatically bonded to H1.0 in any circumstances, but the pressure to “not give up” in families where there were virtually no divorces in our nuclear families and my Church teaches the absoluteness of marriage…and I was so desperate to keep my kids from all of the potential damage of divorce…together it all made me feel powerless to leave. Also. I know that I would have been subject to his narc manipulation if I had tried to leave and I would have been hopeful.
That is an excellent article, Forge On! Thank you do much for sharing it.
Thanks ForgeOn, very interesting site.
Well, OK! It DID link YAY!
Now, go check it out
Thanks for that article link, ForgeOn! THIS sentence is what freed something inside me, “It is not the victim’s fault for ‘choosing’ the abuser either, because victims rarely consciously choose an abuser. They choose someone who appears rather kind, caring and compassionate at the onset.”
I know I never wanted to end up with abusive people – it’s really more that they selected me after noting my gentle and accommodating nature. No, I want reciprocation. I want to be loved and respected back.
It took me decades to figure out how to analyze my pattern – a parade of user types and abusive friends partners and employers. Next, I need to learn how to respond to such disordered behavior. I have to remind myself people don’t think or behave like me. I don’t relish in lying, dishonesty, cheating or putting another person down. I don’t understand this mentality. So, now, in order to protect myself, I have to assume the worst of people first before I let myself trust them.. only because I have not served myself well by being so trusting too soon.
He’s spending money right now on OW and her kids to reel her in. OW must have something he wants, maybe she’s very well off? Who knows but she has something he wants or thinks he needs at the moment. Fifi is right, he is subhuman, I call them defects, but they are all garbage. His parents sound lovely, good riddance. So OW now has a defect on her hands (plus his parents as a bonus) and you have rid yourself of one. Good. I know it is hard, very hard but you’ll get through this nightmare.
KB22
She has a beach pass. And he never got to surf. That was the ticket.
Cynamon, I’m horrified that such sub-humans walk the earth. He had love and threw it away without any conscience at all. I’m so glad you found Chump Nation and that you have a few people to rely on. You don’t need a whole gang, just a couple of good ones will do nicely. Hang in there.
Cynamon.
Since recently becoming a chump I lost quite a few friends who I didn’t realise were idiots. I have found new friends who understood and got what I was going through.
Being chumped certainly gives you a whole new set of lenses to look at your life and who is in it. Now I use my experience as a litmus test of who I want and don’t want in my life. And because life is short I don’t spend time thinking much about it. If a friend tells me any of the above things in your list- gone.
If friends ‘get it’ – in.
The people who are uncomfortable hearing your story are not worthy of you or your time. Life DOES change for the better if you fix your friend picker.
Think about what you need. Who you like. Be around people who fill you with joy and happiness and courage and laughter (and it can be hard I am mostly my own best friend right now but I’m an idiot really so make myself laugh at least!).
And here people really do get it.
Capricorn,
Thanks for all your posts on this thread. Fixing my people-picker is what I’m working on now so I can finally have a sane and peaceful life, something not possible when I’m wrapped up trying to manage other people’s abuse, drama and craziness.
I’m avoiding people for now so I can regroup and figure out what “normal” is – tall order for me because both my parents were so very disordered and abusive. I want the few remaining years of my life to much better than my painful past. I’m hopeful I can do this.
I agree being chumped does give you a new set of lenses of which to see people.
No longer do I allow people who make me feel uncomfortable or question their morals in my life. At one time I would have overlooked or made excuses for people.
Today and from now on my tolerance level for BS is zero.
+1×2!!!
+1!!!!
“I don’t need your permission to tell my story.”
Exactly, Tracy! Beautifully written……
I myself found it necessary to say similar earlier this week: “It is my story and I am free to tell it.”
What a great way to end the week! Am looking forward to the conversation this post will generate!
Love ya as we all ForgeOn!!!!
Calling our reality anecdotal is insulting, but we have been through far worse with our cheating disordered freaks. Sticks and stones. I don’t think anyone is going to stop based on this drivel……??
The silver lining here is that our message is breaking through…hence, the RIC annoyance. Ha!
Yes, DM, exactly!
DM
Yes. This very much! The message is getting through. Like the words
Cornered and Rat perhaps………
Yes, good!
I bet the number of people harmed by awful, uninformed “expert” advice (often backed by an agenda) is similar to that by infidelity…
Indeed! I suffered for years because I went to a therapist and psychiatrist that were both inept. I had to lose just about everything before I realized it. My psych’s reaction to my anger was similar to Obama’s view on torture: we have to look forward not back, we can’t change the past. I’m ashamed that it took me another year+ to decide that that wasn’t an acceptable answer. A bad therapist is worse than none. I thought I wasn’t getting better because I was too broken; turns out it was because she was fucking incompetent.
I’ll speak up, it’s been 18 months and everything said on this blog about self centred assholes (layman term) turned out to be true, no matter how far-fetched it would seem to me at the beginning:
Asshole would stop taking kids to activities
Asshole would try to get as much money as possible
Asshole would throw me chicken bones of affection to keep me hanging on whilst knocking up whore
Asshole would even attempt to stop paying child maintenance.
Asshole denied everything when not confronted with hard proof.
Asshole made up massive lying stories to anything me who would listen.
Etc. I’ve got so used to crap behaviour now that I forget the list of outrages
Oh yeah and I HAVE got a science major where I learnt how to sift out bullshit studies and manipulated statistics.
Sitting in the exact situation where soon to be XH is making me seem insane in front of our parents cos I don’t have proof.
That to me just says no responsibility taken therefore manwhore will never change. Thought I was alone. Thought he had grown after the first two times…. Third time I’ve put on my walking shoes.
Gosh I love your post today, MidlifeBlast. “Self-centered assholes,” laymen’s terms. I myself adore laymen’s terms!
I also was a science major. Learned to question things and think outside the box. How dare we question their “expertise”. Tracy has it right, –Florida strip mall diploma mill experts.
I usually don’t click on the links to these articles as they are just so much same old, same old sludge. However, today’s was actually a hoot. And I quote, “unfaithful partners who blame the other partner for their cheating are unlikely to change.” No kidding Sherlock! And that is the whole lot of them. It’s always someone else’s fault.
What do you think the chances are for my boss? I have overheard him on the phone telling whoever he was talking to that his ex (chumped) wife’s problem in getting over his long-term infidelity is not understanding her role in his cheating. Geez.
What? Did she write his Ashley Madison profile? Help him manscape for dates? Make sure his secretary left room in his schedule for trysts? Those are the only legitimate ways I can think of that a chump may have “played a role in the cheating.”
Cheaters who blameshift by claiming their spouse was imperfect should be tasered. *
*credit to Annie Get Your Gun for the taser idea
Annie is a very nice person for suggesting tasering instead of shooting. Either that or she just doesn’t want prison time.
Haha. Good idea. When I hear him say shit like that about her, it makes me want to find my baseball bat. What he did DESTROYED that woman, both personally and professionally.
And I’ll bet a week’s salary that Tracy has read more of the research on infidelity than most of the therapists counseling wreckonciliation.
Yes, what does the RIC have to say when your cheater keeps cheating and then dies all of the above post? Nothing. They can’t help you then. MiddlelifeBlast, I would have told you my remorseful husband would never do such things. Well, he is a phony and a fake. Cheaters suck!
* does not dies (I wish)
😉
I know!
Mine wasnt sorry for all the lying, deceit, abuse and neglect he imposed on me: he was sorry he got caught. Up until that point he had no problem with that heavy burden of guilt (cough cough). Don’t you love how that works. Here’s what he was really sorry about: getting kicked out of our beautiful home and moving into a 2 bedroom apartment where his beloved truck went from sitting in a garage to being parked outside (he always loved his “things” more than me). His actually having to work vs being supported by me (less time for porn and video games). His mistress now pressuring him for more time because he was finally “free”, no more comfy excuse of why he can’t be with her because his awful wife was in the way.
He also didn’t want me to tell anyone of his deeds and flies into a rage if he thinks I “told” on him. They don’t like their mask coming off. When his final last deceit was exposed to me during our wreckconciliation he literally has disappeared (for now at least) he thought he had finally conned me into believing he had changed (he proposed we fly off to Vegas to remarry and the same night I caught him inviting a stranger he met on sex hook up site to come to his apartment for some “fun and to rub all over that body”) and since he couldn’t explain his duplicity this time he pooped into thin air.
I will shout my story from the roof tops if I feel like it and the lady that wrote this article can jump off that same roof.
I meant “poofed” into thin air but pooped kinda works too!
Lol! I like the expression “pooped into thin air”! Best autocorrect of the week.
+1000 hee hee
Queen Potty Humor over here got a giggle, too! Hahah! Cheaters have a way of fouling up everything, know what I mean?
Thanks for the morning giggle! Couldn’t help it–“pooped into thin air” just cracks me up.
Go get ’em Chump Lady! Thanks to your site, I sucked up my humiliation and told the fucking world what he did to our family. There was no way in hell he was going to protect his bogus image from anyone anymore. After revealing my circumstances, I heard similar stories from friends and their acquaintances. |I direct all of them to your blog. Our voices need to be heard. I can’t thank you and Chump nation enough for giving me the strength and vision to escape the crazy.
Yes, I told everyone,too. No more keeping his dirty little secret. I believe it helped me face the reality of his actions and begin to heal. I also found an amazing number of supportive people!
My aunt reconciled with her cheating husband more than 25 years ago, Lyn, and she still wrestles with the pain today. No, marriages are never the same.
Telling everyone also serves the purpose of burning your bridges and forcing you to move on. After you’ve told everyone and seen the horror on their faces, how can you go back or take them back? You have to forge on. So it is very useful to move forward.
kiwichump, this is such an interesting perspective: Telling everyone also serves the purpose of burning your bridges and forcing you to move on.
Unfortunately, I have a friend who can’t yet use this as motivation to leave. It worked for me simply because when I started telling the truth about my horrid marriage, I already felt there was nothing to salvage. Having my friends know the details was part of the process leaving, to give myself strength to go through with the divorce.
Thanks to my ex I was ashamed and weighed down with guilt about him having an affair and leaving me after 31 years of marriage. If it weren’t for Tracey’s blog, I would still be drowning in that shame. He had thoroughly convinced me that his poor choices were my fault. Thank God for Tracey’s voice crying out in the wilderness that cheating is a choice, and it’s abuse. I could have been destroyed, but hearing about so many other chumps fighting their way back to a good life after being discarded is what gives us all hope.
I do believe some couples can reconcile and move past the infidelity experience, because my own parents did. It is rare that the marriage thrives afterwards, though. However, I was not given the choice to reconcile. My ex wasn’t interested in do any ceiling staring or soul searching in order to save our marriage. He just wanted out.
Lyn, we so easily accept the blame, don’t we? And they so easily pile it on us. Like you, I wasn’t given the choice to reconcile. I’m still working on believing that we chumps who were left without a backward glance are the lucky ones.
I am a chump who is divorced and my cheating ex-husband still tells me that he loves me and wants me back. He says he will love me until the day he dies.
Most of the time, I would rather be left alone. I see cheating as a way out of a relationship, so none of this makes any sense to me.
Of course it doesn’t make sense, Stacey. If he really loved you, he wouldn’t have cheated. That’s not love. What happened to his mistress? Did they break up and now he wants to come back? He didn’t want to reconcile before the divorce so that tells you all the truth you need to know.
I recommend No Contact so he can’t confuse you with his BS. Do a search on Chumplady’s blogs for “hoovering” .. which is what your ex is doing. Be strong and stay away from him. Make your own life, your own friends, indulge in your interests, find new hobbies.
Lyn, I felt the same way, I was ashamed that I was getting a divorce after 27 years of marriage and 32 years together. I thought I was damaged goods. This site has saved me many times from thinking it was my fault he cheated on me and left to be with his truwuv! We are so much better off without that shit in our lives!
Shame is strengthen by silence.
My friend and I were just pondering whether it is worse to be discarded, or worse to do the pick me dance for years. They both suck.
A game we used to play as kids, would you rather be deaf or blind?
I”d say it’s worse to do the pickme dance repeatedly and then be discarded.
I have to agree. I was told at the beginning please don’t hate me and all that then the drama of the whoremat being “pregnant” then “miscarrying” then it was but ILYBINILWY then it was yes let’s work it out. But I’m still talking to her. But now I’m not. But now I am. But now I’m not. Dance harder! Dance! Dance! Dance! But I’m not going to work on my shit. Dance more! I’m too broken. But I love you. But I’m broken! Dance! I’m leaving! Dance! I’m leaving. ☹️ I’m exhausted. And have danced but stopped 1,000 times and he’s still fucked up and knows it but doesn’t want to change. And he still picked her and I am absolutely HEARTBROKEN and DEVASTATED. And I shouldn’t be. But he was my person. And I loved him so much. And even if he’s half unicorn because he knows better and wants to be fixed he’s half jackass because he can’t make the hard choice to do it!
^Agreed.
No time to post citations, but the VAST majority of research coming in on infidelity, starting with Buss & Shackelford (1997) shows cheating is linked to 3 things: (a) entitlement; (b) lack of empathy, and (c) poor impulse control.
How ’bout I throw out there that therapists pushing reconciliation and that the chump should consider “what faults they brought to the marriage to cause the cheating,’ should pull their collective heads out of their own and each other’s asses and READ THE FUCKING LITERATURE.
(a) entitlement; (b) lack of empathy, and (c) poor impulse control.
3 traits the traitor exhibited outside of cheating too.
Chumpy me noticed them and didn’t join the dots, I just wanted to fix him, thought the poor impulse control was the main issue and could be improved.
Hahaha, Tempest! I fantasize about a full-page ad in newspapers across the nation, directed at RIC therapists: READ THE FUCKING LITERATURE, PSEUDO-SCI DUMPSTER DIVERS! Love, Chump Nation.
Yo!!! FiFi! Go get ’em!
Tell me where to donate!!!!
(Almost gagged on my Seagrams with that one!)
Love it, Fifi!! I’ll contribute to the full-page ads!
Thank you for citing these studies, and Tempest (I find your posts fascinating), for listing those three fundamental things; my XH exhibited them all, plus a gazillion others. From the moment we entered “therapy” the week I found out about the primary affair (not knowing at the time there were others), I now see in hindsight we never even got to discussing the actual affair. And of course he was not even close to being “honest” in “therapy”. By the time the XH “quit” after, oh, maybe 5 sessions, all they had consisted of were me sobbing uncontrollably on the couch and clearly not having a grip on any type of reality or rational thought, while we discussed how our relationship had “changed” and what had I done to contribute to our “troubles”. All we talked about (and I was a self-admitted Amazon chump and voracious reader of sites that stated “your marriage can be even better after an affair!!”) were what “cracks” were in the marriage (god the term “cracks” is used all over). I TOTALLY felt that the entire affair was MY fault. Ok, after ten years, our relationship had changed, and yep, there were cracks because I now realize only one of us was actually invested in the marriage, which is an ADULT relationship, not a high school fuckfest. But last I had checked…we had both still been in the same “crack infested” marriage, and I somehow managed to keep my legs closed to other people. And I have told my story to every person who will listen; my entire family, his family, mutual friends, my friends, everyone at work, my veterinarian, the guys who put up the fence in my yard this summer, the plumber who came to my house, my new neighbors, people I meet walking my dog. EVERYONE. I owe absolutely nothing to that cheating motherfucker and his bitch-whore of a girlfriend. I have said it before and I’ll say it again…if I had found all of you first, instead of finding reconciliation bullshit first, I would have been better off a lot sooner.
Ha ha Ii, I too told a lady walking her dog and now when she passes my ex’s place she lets that dog “go” in ex’s front yard.
Lolz
Lol
I laughed at this one. Nobody likes a cheater. Even cheaters don’t like cheaters. But society tolerates them far too much.
The dog and the lady have good taste. 🙂
I heard the same thing from my cheater, “it just happened,” and I should “own my role in the demise of the marriage.”
But loyalty and truth are fundamental to a relationship, so no other faults even come close to equaling infidelity.
And if Hannibal thought one’s genitals falling on top of another’s genitals is like thunder just ‘happening,’ and that if I caused the demise of the marriage equally by having my privates fall on top of other penises, well, damn, I sure wish I remembered that!
Tempest!
Shame on you! You are treating them like they are proper scientists, who would know good research if they saw it, who had you know ‘ethics’ and shit like that. They maybe can’t read too well, or do that logic stuff, or string more than one thought alongside another thought.
Can’t fight these idiots with REASON. Gosh no.
They are like the cheaters we all know.
They just don’t get it. We need to treat them like the shit sandwich- just put it down carefully and walk away while the flies enjoy it…..
I’d bet they’re not JUST like the cheaters we all know. A lot of them probably ARE the cheaters we all know. If you believe people become entitled when they aren’t super mega blissful, why wouldn’t you apply the same logic to yourself and your own relationships?
Therapists in the RIC make a lot of money luring Chumps and Cheaters into endless sessions of “discuss the Chumps failings in hopes of saving this marriage” and it serves the Therapists and Cheaters well.
There is little/no evidence behind their assumptions and practices and the old ideas need to be retired along with other harmful ‘old wives tales’. Cheating is a classic acting out behavior of the disordered and that should be the starting point to be proven wrong.
Just did a quick Google search. Is this the study you mean? http://www.toddkshackelford.com/downloads/Buss-Shackelford-JRP-1997.pdf
Yes, that’s the one.
This site saved me. I was so clueless I didn’t know what to do at DD4. He kept telling me he was sorry and would change. I knew I had to get out! I felt like I was losing my mind. Then, I got the book. I knew I had been mindfucked but was too scared to go through with the lawyer until I read Leave a Cheater Gain a Life and knew I was on the right track, it was probably worse than I thought, and there are a whole lot of unsuspecting spouses enduring the same torture. Thanks ChumpLady.
It saved me too, Never. You know what else saved me? Writing every single detail down in an anonymous blog. Chump Lady and my blog literally saved my sanity and gave me confidence and healing when nothing else could.
I don’t have any advertisers, I don’t make any money from it. It costs me a LOT of time and a small annual renewal fee, but it’s worth every bit of money and lost sleep.
I can say whatever I need to say to the ether. People have told me it’s helped them. Do you know how empowering that feels when your power and your voice have been stolen?! It is so freeing in a world that expects you to sit down, shut up, and eat the shit sandwich.
I titled it Honey and the HomeWrecker. No names, no faces, but every single thing Honey did to me is documented. It’s a record he can’t just get in his truck and drive away from, like he did to me and his 2 babies in diapers without warning. He thinks his actions will just be washed away in the haze of time. No, you family-abandoning douche-canoe. Think again. My pain and your bagdouchery are written down, on the internet for all to see for all time, and you have NO IDEA. There is so much power in that.
I’d recommend it for anyone who loves to write and who knows, just as Tracy said, that experience DOES qualify you to speak to others who have been through it and could stand to hear that, no, they are not crazy. No, they are not the cause of infidelity, poor character is. I really don’t know what shape I would be in emotionally if it hadn’t been for Tracy and for being able to write my blog. Long live Chump Nation!!
http://www.honeyandthehomewrecker.com. Cheers, Chumps!!
I read your blog and thought it was great. I kept thinking you are really clever, intelligent, and articulate. What are you doing with these losers in your life! I mean, neck tattoos, really?
I journal but never considered how putting it on the internet could be empowering and cathartic. Thanks for your pov.
Thank you for the compliments! Glad to hear you journal. That was how it started out for me, too. Then I found WordPress and off I went.
Yah, the damned tattoos. Uggggg. He really let his inner dirtbag fly when he left. It was like a wild dog being let off a chain. As it all happened, I was horrified that I even knew this guy, let alone had to navigate having children with him for the next decade plus.
Thanks to Tracy, I now recognize I was married to a shark in a person suit. Or rather, that I was married to a seedy dirtbag disguised as a respectful and funny game-show host. He really hid it well. It’s like Tracy said in my most favorite blog post EVER, ‘Nice vs. Kind’: He’s all cherry and no sundae. He is a master at impression management. But underneath his charm, he’s got an agenda of indifference and self-gratification, and that’s really as far as he goes. All of the qualities that I saw in him were a figment of my imagination. Sigh.
Best to you, Never!!
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/uncategorized/when-is-it-time-to-give-up-on-men-and-love-forever/
That made me SO MAD! Everyone that is a cheater apologist it’s all grey blah blah blah FUCK YOU! I wish those people could FEEL the anguish and pain of that betrayal. Then see how Grey morality is! I’m literally shaking with anger right now!
Yes, KK thank you for bravely doing battle in those comments. There is so much of the “don’t judge” attitude out there anymore. Reading your comments and the others led me to the original NYT “Modern Love” piece and the comments there. I was surprised actually to see so many NYT commenters condemning Rinaldi’s narcissicism as well as her being an adultery partner.
Enjoyed your comments to that post too, KK. Cheater apologists who are cheaters, go figure!!
Go KK your comments were great. You are mighty!
I am an integrated person and I rarely lie.
I believe there is power in stories and shared experiences.
While I still don’t want my kids to get wind of their father’s giant failings, when Im speaking with someone with whom there are enough “degrees of separation” from my kids that I feel comfortable in that anonymity, I do share my story…especially with age peers. I want my girlfriends to know what mighty looks and feels like. I want chumps to know that we don’t have to carry silent shame of chumpdom.
There are some times when I want people to know that I didn’t recover from widowhood quickly because I am a cold fish who didn’t care but rather a chump who overcame abuse.
Wow, Horses, brilliant!
Those shit sandwiches just keep on coming. That is my reply to your question. After a while, you just cannot choke them down any more and need to act to protect yourself.
Yes, UNM. You are a class act.
Love your message UNM
I tell my story when I want, to anyone I want at any hour I want. Ex’s mother said I’m sorry this happened and that he didn’t love you. I said, really, just the day before he said he loved me, I caught him cheating, threw him out and btw he gave me a STD. She asked what that was, I told her and she said I don’t blame you. BOOM! I purposely told her because she is the town’s biggest gossiper. Take that!! Also told his best friend who is a bigger gossiper! Told new people I met last Sunday because they go to the bar where he works. One woman said he is nice looking…..I said yep, a nice looking, liar and cheater. BOOM x 2!!!!! Bet he will shit his pants when he finds out…..not to worry, Preparation H will soothe that sore ass!
NMSB–I thought of you first thing when reading the opening of today’s post, “Chump Lady is going to get ranty today. Heads up. Incoming!”
“Duck!”
Hahahahaha, hugs….nice to be thought of first thing after reading CL’s post!
Duck, Bitches!
Dixie, I wish I had you by my side when I tossed his skanky ass out! I can hear you in the background, warming up your vocals as well as your snark! (His mother used to leave summer clothes here at my house for her return visits.) Then I yelled “I’ll put HER SHIT in boxes!
You and I in one location might signal the apocalypse for cheaters!!!
Dixie, yes, yes, and yes! Store some canned goods, get a gun and yell, “DUCK, BITCH!”
I tell EVERYONE if the chance comes up–my realtor, the guy serving me at the post office (hey, he asked, “was your X that bad?” to get me started), our dentist (yup, the one X still goes to, hee hee), mutual friends, ….
I would sing it on the rooftops too, Nomore!
Peaky, I did and still do….you would be very proud!
me me meeee. Oh, sorry y’all. Such warming up my vocal cords!
Dixie, for you my friend;
Do, a cheater like mother
Re, my dick on a reconn
Mi, ME< ME< ME< ME just ME
Fa, I like to fuck others
So, I finally got caught
La, laughing as I tossed you
Ti, telling all your family
which brings us back to
Do, a cheater like your mother!
Ha ha!! You are such a hoot!
Hahahahaha!!!! Do Re Me (sic) So La DeDah…..sing it Dixie!!!!!!!!
(I was going to say Do, Re Me, Go Fuck Your Ma, but I reconsidered. Erase, erase!)
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The above is from a blog I read pretty regularly. I agree with the majority of his advice. However, this post with a link to the related article, triggered me, along with some cheater apologists in the comments section. What do y’all think?
Way to gloss over the infidelity, and then glorify the relationship that resulted. Get back to me when fabulous-partner ‘married man’ then cheats on Rinaldi (and I will bet on that).
Oh, contraire… They’ve enjoyed wedded bliss going on 25 years now, with 2 children of their own. Thus, the EXAMPLE that one should never give up on searching for true love (even if there’s a pesky little detail like destroying another woman’s family…. Snark!)
I think the gal who wrote that is a dysfunctional person who looks for excuses to explain away bad judgement.
Once a cheater always a cheater has held up pretty well. There is good reason that saying exists… There must have been some chump out there that experienced this, along with the rest of us on this site! We’re just here to say, “YUP, it’s true”. Another saying that’s pretty close is “People don’t change” Geee…. I wonder why people say that?
I find it hard to believe that the “overwhelming guilt” is enough for people to stop cheating. They can feel guilty all they want, but never guilty enough to stop, resist temptation and become an honest person all of a sudden. My experience being in multiple cheating relationships is that they absolutely do not stop, whether they feel all guilty or not. I tell anyone who will listen about it. Family, friends, random people should the conversation arise, etc. I guess I’m here to help lessen other peoples’ pain.
Just like cheater’s don’t need our permission to cheat, I don’t need permission to tell on your ass. Which, every time I was cheated on, I did just that when people would ask.
“Bi now, gay later” is another saying with anecdotal support.
Why have I never heard this? Amazingly clever. Your STBX was withholding information he did not have the right to hide from you, his wife. Hate him for those entitled choices. He sucks.
“Once a cheater, always a cheater.”
Yeah, my xhole only cheated that “one time” ….
With 6+ OW. That day, that week, that month, that year. And on soulmate schmoopie, aka cocksocket, OW5. Can’t even stay faithful to his twu wuv.
I’m pretty sure there was no “guilt”, despite all his squawking. That guilt certainly didn’t prevent him from continuing to fuck cocksocket, in our house, in our bed. Guilt didn’t prevent him from rubbing his A in my face.
Guilt = I’m mad you left me. I’m mad you told everyone WHY you left me. I’m mad you burned the bakery down, then nuked the ground it stood on. I’m mad you went 100% NC, changed your #, blocked every avenue of contact & wouldn’t tell me where you lived. I’m mad you D’d me. I’m mad you had the fucking audacity to forget all about me. Now I haz teh sadz. Fucktard.
“Now I haz teh sadz.” Love it, Waffles! He’s the cocksocket’s problem now.
Omg, thank you for that response. I just took a screenshot of it so I can reread it often.
Your definition of “cheater guilt” is SPOT ON Waffles. And you had me at cocksocket! Hilarious!
I’m feeling your power, Waffles. So good. Way to stay strong.
Ha, thx, FB. It took a minute (or a few years) to get here. 😉
I didn’t believe it for a LONG time. I knew H1.0 was an asshole but I thought that he was my asshole. I didn’t see any proof that he cheated after Susan of Seattle which seemed to reinforce my long held belief.
There were oddities in his story though..like why he didn’t seem nervous when starting the affair or why he never made the widely held claim of “Ive never done anything like this before”. And why did he ALWAYS pull a crazy distracting stunt every time we were headed to a social event with his coworkers?
Yes, cheaters cheat….and in time I came to learn that his cheating did end with Susan, but it started WAY WAY earlier…maybe he always cheated (very possible). SO now Im in your camp.
Unicornomore, I was in denial too, (matter of fact, for 7 years of my relationship to my XH) but too many “in your face” examples turned me into a believer.
I love the ‘You stared at a ceiling? Well, bully for you, Sad Sausage!
Quite. It’s ALWAYS about them. First their needs, their entitlement, their affairs and when it all comes out it’s all about them again – why they did it, will they do it again, can you forgive them.
Shit sandwich buffet is spread before chumps.
And why is everyone so mad when chumps just walk off and refuse to eat???
Why is it so bad that people who have been grievously hurt and had their lives devastated choose to go? Why are we the the bad guys for not putting up with the person who did this too us?
I wonder where all this anger comes from? Isn’t it good that ‘victims’ for want of a better word, want to protect themselves from further abuse???
Can it really be all about preserving ‘marriage’.
I just wonder why these idiots are so vested in making people stay in unhealthy relationships. Why not just let people choose?
I really hate these raving lunatics who favour their message over the truth of real lived experience and suffering.
I’m a one woman infidelity shouter. I tell everyone! I ask people if it happened to them. I tell everyone who will sit still for five minutes about Chump Lady. I have no shame to carry. I maybe King Canute sitting before the waves but hey what else is a single 50 year old chump gonna do. Take it? I don’t think so.
An added benefit. My mr. nice guy cheater cracks just a little bit every time I let on I have told someone else we know. My new hobby….?
Slowly slowly unhinge monkey…
Why are people so mad that chumps walk away from a marriage the cheater walked away from days, weeks, months, and in my case, apparently years before?
Those are GREAT questions! Way to flip the script, really. That was yesterday’s post, but I like what you’ve done here.
Cheater cheats, chump walks away. Why is everyone mad at the chump? Is this moral relativism? I guess that’s where the idea of “owning one’s part” comes in.
I say, brush your shoulder off. You can come at me all you want for not trying harder with a cheater, but that’s your problem not mine. Not sure why everyone expects the chump to make all the sacrifices, but in my opinion that is a wholly immoral stance.
Bitter? A little. Much less than I would be if I had tried to make things work for The Coward and not for me. I don’t really care much for shit sandwiches.
I’m a big advocate of telling everyone the truth. His cowardice is his shame, not mine. I exude mightiness.
Your methodology has me thinking of those Terry Bradshaw commercials for shingles vaccine. 🙂
“And why is everyone so mad when chumps just walk off and refuse to eat???”
Because it upsets the world order and threatens world peace! Who would do all the work if Chumps ended nonreciprocal partnerships? How would the RIC earn all their money if Chumps stopped believing all the bullshit? And how the heck are all the disordered going to appear normal if Chumps stopped covering for them?
Here’s to The Revolution!
“cheater cracks just a little bit every time I let on I have told someone else we know.” LMAO!!!
Peaky, keep preaching it! HUGS!
Let’s see, on DDay Number Four, who did I most need to speak with?
a) A self righteous priest who had never been married let alone in a relationship let alone cheated on who basically told me I just needed to “have more sex and pray for him,”
OR
b) someone who has personally lived through it, can offer me practical advice, and who will hold my hand while I wait for STD test results?
Unicorn, indeed.
What I got from my priest was the following: You diminish yourself spiritually by staying with an unremorseful, unrepentant, continuing to cheat adulterer.
And people who can’t handle dissenting opinion should stay away from CL & CN
I’m sure they can find a radio station that plays Teletubby music 24/7 so they can feel safe & cuddly.
I told my story in public, with Kunty Kibbler’s latest twu wuv in attendance, and the woman he’s still legally married to sitting beside him (you can’t make this shit up).
https://www.chumplady.com/2016/10/the-stranger/
I implore everybody to find a way to tell their stories in some way, to someone, as a means of gaining a sense of control over our own healing.
If anyone has a bigger F.U. story than UXWorld, I’d love to hear it. That storytelling in front of the cheater is a.w.e.s.o.m.e.
Yep, that was a mighty fine post, UXworld, and a ballsy thing to do.
Why were they there?! Does his poor wife know that you were talking about her husband? Oh, to have seen his reaction!!!
You are AMAZING Ux!!
After 10 months I have finally told some really close friends, and a new friend. One of my close friends has been cheated on, so has my new friend. I am glad I waited. I am able to relate the facts very calmly. I haven’t told my best friend because the ex and I share a godchild (one of her sons). He hasn’t seen him since the split, and I don’t want her feeling bad about her son’s christening. At first I didn’t want to tell in order to protect myself, but now that people have seen me acting with dignity and strength through all of this, I am ready to share my truth.
My ex has shown no remorse. He can’t. That would mean admitting culpability, the fact he is wrong, and being prepared to take action to make amends. This will happen when pots of gold start appearing at the ends of rainbows.
It is not possible to show remorse if you are not actually sorry.
Well, they are sorry, just not in the way we usually use the term.
^^^^
AMEN.
What’s to feel sorry about, with all that free strange?!?
“My ex has shown no remorse. He can’t. That would mean admitting culpability, the fact he is wrong, and being prepared to take action to make amends. This will happen when pots of gold start appearing at the ends of rainbows.”
This is exactly how I feel about my ex. He could never admit that his choices were wrong.
Your spouse leaving you after you have a one night stand is a highly predictable outcome so who’s self-righteous here?
If you’re guilty and repentant then don’t ever cheat again. Don’t cheat your spouse in divorce court, be a good co- parent and don’t cheat on your future spouse.
I am a scientist and yes, reading thousands of very similar stories was exactly the observable data I needed.
I think one thing douchecanoe was not expecting was that I would tell EVERYBODY about his affair. Literally ANYBODY would would listen. The bank teller, the neighbors, the realtor, the guy who did our home inspection, the hotel front desk lady at disneyworld, his family, all of our friends. I didn’t wait either, I blabbed it about a month after d-day when I realized he had no intentions of breaking off his affair. I literally posted it on facebook. “Congratulations to Douchecanoe and OW and their decision to leave their spouses and children and be together. I hope that half of our savings account you emptied out today will give you the financial start you two need to start your life together. You two truly are a match made in heaven.”
He was pissed. When he said he didn’t like “my behavior” I asked him what he considered appropriate behavior was for a woman who was cheated on and left with no warning by her husband. What was the appropriate way to act when you find out that you are going to have to lose out on half your daughter’s life because your husband can’t keep his dick in his pants? He replied “You didn’t have to be so hostile and mean and tell everybody.” To which raised my eyebrows and responded “It’s not my job to be your PR agent.”
High five Strawberry!
I’m a teller too.
I left the bank for the last time when we had to split a check and he was complaining, as he always is about something, so I just walked away and yelled “go fuck your whore!” Not exactly classy but there was some pretty deadly silence so I know the whole bank heard it. I didn’t even look back to see his reaction.
Bad. Ass. Mofo.
High five on that one!
INteresting reply from him. Really the only part about the whole situation, including your “behavior” that bothers him is the part where you told the truth, and that’s because it may reflect poorly on him, and affect his ability to garner fraudulent respect from people ignorant to his true character.
Well, that’s in the cheater script, too.
Well, I suppose the up-side to having the truth out there is that cheaters might better know then who their “real friends” are. People who celebrate the infidelity, entitlement, lack of integrity, poor impulse control, deception are the cheaters’ real friends. And then they don’t have to hide from the truth any more. It’s all out there. And trust me, there are plenty of people who feel (they don’t think, they feeeel) that cheating is somehow honorable and righteous. I also like to know who those people are.
Strawberry for the win!
You are awesome, Strawberry!
All hail Strawberry.
I can see I have even more to do!
??
Inflammatory language is the primary tool weak-minded gaslighted use to disarm others because their actual arguments and evidence are weak.
Leaving a person who has harmed you isn’t self-righteous, it’s self-care (and, all too often, also appropriate child-care for chumped parents.)
Shitty behavior has consequences most of the time. If you’re lying, sneaking around, and/or harming another person and you lose the goodness of that person in your life, welcome to the point. Whatever your reasons, you Gamble’s and lost. Nobody owes you a do-over.
*gaslighters (autocorrect)
Also*gambled. (Autocorrect doesn’t know gambled?!?)
Dear Whoever the Dumb Fuck You Are-
Tracy saved my life. God Bless her for not needing your permission to share her lovely self with those of use who have been abused by Satan’s soldiers who seemingly lurk everywhere.
One more thing you self righteous bitch. How dare you insult our leader ???
FUCK OFF FROM CHUMP NATION
Ding!
We have a winner!
I believe we just found our new PR agent. 🙂
YES!!!!!!
Amen! ?
Amen LOL.
This. ^^^^
The only people staring at the ceiling with regrets are the chumps. The cheaters always get a good nights sleep. On Dday after X confessed to his one night stand (5 year affair) by telling me at my workplace, i came home to find him soundly sleeping. When I woke him up to tell him we needed to talk, he said ” about what?” Yeah I was the only one staring at the ceiling with regrets.
Exactly. The second I read “They’ve never gone to bed at night staring at the ceiling, wishing there was anything you could do to take back the hurt you’ve inflicted on your partner.” I knew the premise was total bullshit for the simple FACT that cheaters absolutely do not spend time wishing they could take back the hurt. Trust me, they just don’t do that.
They don’t stare at the ceiling feeling guilt.
Here is what they do: They stare at the ceiling and wish
– that the affair partner will give them more kibbles
– that they will have a nice sexting session back and forth tomorrow with the AP
– that the AP will lavish them with expensive gifts and secret condos in the sky
– that they’ll have skin and skin contact, and asshole licking and marathon sex sessions with the AP
– that they are so deserving of love and attention and kibbles
– that they are entitled to find this true love and romance and kibble supply, so they aren’t guilty of anything
– that life should and shall be simpler and easier and not so messy since they are so special and entitled
Here is also what they do, but don’t wish for (the chump during an affair barely enters the cheater’s mind)
– take everything the chump provides without any acknowledgement of gratitude
– expect and feel entitled to all chump provided services
– every now and then have to gaslight and manipulate and lie to the chump in order to preserve said provisions
They simply, absolutely, unequivocally, do note engage in “staring at the ceiling, wishing there was anything you could do to take back the hurt you’ve inflicted on your partner. ”
As I said above, they really don’t spend any time thinking about YOU, your feelings, your hurt, your well-being, your goals, your desires, your needs.
(disclaimer: sure there is probably the 1% exception to the above, but it is no more than 1 or 2%)
Idiot would sleep soundly with his hand down his pants with the remote in the other hand.
Same. I knew my ex my whole adult life. I never could just fall asleep like he could. I was a ceiling-starer. I always thought I just wasn’t a good sleeper. But, ohmygosh, as soon as he left, for the first time in my adult life I started sleeping soundly. Never knew I could, until I got rid of him. Best sleep of my life happening right now, and it feels so good! I finally love life!
OMG you nailed it, newday. We get the ulcers, they sleep through the night. Whoever designed that paradigm fucked it up royally.
Me, too. One of the books I read suggested the cheater has so much relief from having their sneaking out in the open that after the confession they feel BETTER — after all, THEY have known about it for god knows HOW long before telling US about it! XH also slept like a log during the interminable ten days following Dday before I kicked him out.
I heard a serial cheater say that very thing a couple of nights ago, with his (trying to reconcile) wife present. She said nothing, and looked anything but like a person who was feeling BETTER.
newday.
Yes. Exactly this. They don’t lose any sleep, they keep eating, enjoy a joke, never shed a tear.
ABSOLUTELY true! Wow! Hit that nail on the head!
I lost sleep for a good 10 years! We weren’t married and didn’t live together. Always waiting and wondering if he was gonna call or when would he call. (old school here, don’t call the man, he should call you). Anyway, I most of those 10 years got a nightly call BUT it was midnight and after, even 3am! Oh yes, you know, he’s a fucking hard worker. Owns his own business blah blah. My suspicions really came to the forefront though after 8.5 years. Yes, takes me a minute!
All romance just about came to an abrupt halt. Of course he blamed it on his son who had passed away and I believed him. That’s not saying that this can’t be the case, but in my case it wasn’t. Gaslighted me all over the place! I didn’t even know what gaslight meant until well after I was all done and starting researching online. I was astounded!
Someone earlier mentioned heart palpitations. I would have them every single night waiting on his call, so badly that I didn’t know how my heart would possibly continue to beat. Scary.
I’ve done it all.
Heart palps, writing down my fears in the middle of the night, recording myself of how I felt in the middle of the night, finally having the courage to pick of his phone and see it ALL, hiring a private eye, searching the net for gadgets to track his car, computer, whatever (never did those though), journaling daily all events etc that happened with him, recording our conversations that I initiated of course, taking snapshot photos from his phone onto mine and emailing myself in case he caught on and tried to erase from my phone and therefore deny to others that it was true, told some people but not as many as I still would like to; would like to shout from the mountains! Joined a RIC, $500 later and NO reslove. Went to a couples counselor and recorded it too where he lied his ass off. Went to therapists myself; finally found one I liked but CL and CN has been my greatest recovery source!!! I also love when the son of a bitch told me ‘yes! keep going!’ when I told him I was seeing a counselor bc of what I was going through with his infidelity. (this was after discovery #1).
Seriously, I could go on and on as I know all of us could. This post has really been a trigger for me. It’s been 3 years since my exit, really his exit and yes, the times I do think of him, I STILL HAVE HATE! Wow oh wow…..
I have a friend that was married for 15 years and he cheated on her but she still thinks the sun rises and sets with him. BTW, they’re divorce and he married the OW; still calls her and keeps her on the hook. He’s a mother fucker, no good! I’m amazed and appalled but I support her.
I think I’m done! lol
Oh yea….one more thing….
now his new 27 year old bride to be can deal with his 55 year old viagra takin’ ass with his strap on! LOL
Yes, the stripper he was with while with me told me that he had a strap on and wanted her to wear! Even she was appalled! It’s one thing if that’s your thing and you let your S.O. know and they’re ok with it too BUT when you are a closet hider freak and preach the opposite, well then that is a different story all its own.
A 55 year old man marrying a 27 year old stripper. That ought to last about a minute. She plans on taking him to the cleaners or she has a drug habit that needs to be supported. Maybe she just has “daddy” issues. Whatever, it is that relationship will blow up but good in due time.
KB22…….sorry should have been clearer. The 25 year old stripper, he was 50, was the person he was cheating with when he was with me.
The new bride to be is 27 and he is now 55. She was not the original AP. She is someone new in his sick life.
That poor girl and I do mean girl actually is an instructor at a college. Poor, poor girl!
Amazing how soundly they sleep.
Jive ass motherfucker would sleep in a semi-comatose state, with a self satisfied grin. Meanwhile, I’d sleep 10 minutes a day.
Mine too. He kept telling me he slept well because he had a clean conscience. More like NO conscience.
My cheater sleeps like a baby. Every. Single. Night. No matter whose bed he’s in.
Maybe he just had a short memory:)
I have a good one from my Chump partner’s cheatin’ ex…just this week received:
She has been living 15 years in the former matrimonial home, free of charge, since the divorce. Why? Because Chump Dad couldn’t bring himself to dislodge his kids from their home. So, the beotch gets use of his half of the home equity all this time with no compensation to her chump ex.. Plus…he has been paying support until last year when youngest turned 21. Again…because it was not the kids’ fault.
So, house went on the market last year…six credible bids later, cheatin ex wife still refuses to sell. We had to threaten to take her to court to force the sale, and she comes up,with a bid herself…wants to buy Dad out…on one condition : that he can never tell the adult kids the truth about their mother’s cheating.
Needless to say, we waited until about 24 hours after the cash was in the bank. Chump then sat the kids down (they are now adults) and told,them the whole truth. Guess what…Cheater had told them all through those 15 years that it was their Dad who abandoned the family.
There are dozens of people in this small community who have witnessed what actually happened with her multiple affairs, so, I don’t doubt the truth.
The kids were pretty emotional and hugged their Dad. I think he finally realised the reality that she had been “keeping him silent” all these years and that it helped no one but her. All four of them have some healing to do now.
BTW … Cheater heard the news and started in on the vicious texts and emails. Chump calmly blocker her. Peace at last. I hope she fets so angry she busts her gusset.
The cheater Tammy Nelson describes sounds nothing like the numerous (hundreds?) of cheaters (including my STBX) on this site. The only thing that has kept my cheater up at night is either cheating on me or thinking about ways to abuse me. I have evidence from more than one night that he spent all night abusing me. What would Ms. Nelson have to say about that?
Ms. Nelson refers to an extra-marital affair as a ‘mistake.’ I thought that mistakes were things like accidentally stepping on someone’s toe in the subway when the train unexpectedly stops, not having sex with someone other than one’s spouse for years while married and blaming the chumped spouse for the affair, abusing the chumped spouse, or trying to hide the evidence (e.g., surreptitiously diverting family’s funds to pay for sex with prostitutes). By describing chumps who feel and act anything other than complacent or sympathetic toward cheaters as ‘self-righteous,’ Ms. Nelson implies that chumps have agency. However, by referring to extra-marital affairs as ‘mistakes,’ she seems to imply that cheaters have no agency. Ridiculous.
Research factoid (will try to track down source later): It takes roughly 28 days of setting up an affair, flirting, etc. before an affair commences. That is one MF-ing long “random” happening.
That’s a few nails in a few coffins then!
Some ‘mistake’!
‘I didn’t plan it’
‘It just happened’
‘I didn’t mean to’
‘I wasn’t looking to cheat’
It is insulting how stupid they think we are.
Idiot skankboy said “it just happened” too. I don’t want to be with someone who has no character and no self-control. I don’t want to raise another child. That is now Ida Whore’s job!
I agree…this cheater apologist painted all cheaters as remorse stricken victims of a single moment of indiscretion…someone who really loves their spouse and fears the loss of a valued marriage. That is the cheater version of a unicorn.
My cheater was an entitled, manipulative asshole who played any and every angle to his advantage, no matter how much it hurt me or our marriage.
For the record, I would have forgiven a single indiscretion were it accompanied by contrition and real kindness and healing. How many of us got that? hello? anyone ? Bueller? Bueller?
We get a very skewed view of what most cheaters are like in terms of remorse etc. by reading forums with “Wayward” sections. Those on sites are atypical and show some empathy ( but still not normal levels).
Most cheaters are without a conscience.
I got that. He left to stay with a friend for a few weeks and told me about his one night stand. Lots of remorse and tears. I agreed to go through a marriage program to see if our marriage could be salvaged. I had some boundaries I set around how he spent his free time. For a year and a half, things were better than they had been in a long time. He was treating me like a husband should. I truly thought he had made some real changes.
Then he started having an evening here and there where he didn’t come home after work or call. Just late (and drunk). He then walked out again and little by little, I discovered:
1. One night stand was much more than that
2. When he left the first time, he wasn’t staying with a friend but was staying with OW
3. He told me the whole marriage program was a waste of time and was the worst thing he ever had to go through
4. He left the second time when I was 6 months pregnant (complete surprise and should not have medically happened)
5. Moved right in with new OW who was only 23 and I suspect was more than someone who worked for him for 2 years
The extent of the lies he told me to keep me from kicking him out the first time leaves my head spinning.
Be thankful, you did not get the false remorse after an “indiscretion”.
Yes, I so relate to this. I simply could not believe how horrible the truth was once I uncovered it. Well, look at all these other people in the same boat! My cheater’s egregious behavior is apparently quite common. They suck. They have agency alright and they suck.
Meant to say ‘cheaters DESCRIBED on this site.’
The nerve of these “experts” to @ you on Twitter, CL.
A chump on yesterday’s post recounted exactly the reason why I am here. I read one of Chump Lady’s posts, and she was telling my story. The words she quoted from the cheater could have come from my cheater’s mouth verbatim.
So experts, go ahead and expert elsewhere. Chump Lady is on to something here, and even though people can change, once you cheat on me, you can change elsewhere.
Let’s put “experts” in quotes with a winky face afterwards, just to indicate their actual legitimacy.
I spoke with the world’s leading expert on mating, and after reading a few of Tracy’s posts, HE agreed chumps should leave cheaters.
Amen. And you’d better be quick about it because I didn’t send you to a greener pasture. I sent you to the glue factory.
I know this isn’t Facefook, but I am giving this comment, 1000 Likes. 😉
OMG. ????
+1 with many exclamation points!
You know who else offered me advice when my husband cheated and walked out?
An attorney.
I found him more helpful that so-called therapy websites that were completely irrelevant about “working it out” or giving ridiculous explanations about infidelity. The reason didn’t matter. His behavior and actions were unacceptable. He wasn’t welcome back even if he tried (which, lucky for me, he didn’t).
People make mistakes. But mistakes have consequences. Since we are getting all “professional” here, let’s ask an attorney how that works. It’s called case law.
Do I think every person who has an affair is a total jackass with no soul and capacity for change? No. Do I believe most people who cheat have a lack of character and moral defect? Yes. Do those people change? No.
*I saw the Twitter comments and for a moment thought it was Vikki Stark who was engaging. I almost had a heart attack. All I could think is, “What is this world coming to?!” It wasn’t, and if anyone needs a great book about marital abandonment and recovery from a woman who experienced AND is a renowned therapist (those things are not mutually exclusive), “Runaway Husbands” is great.
I consulted an attorney before I even confronted Narkles the Clown.
He was out of town “working” with the Flying Whore when that anonymous email reached my inbox.
My attorney laid out my legal options and I chose divorce if he could not be honest with me when I told him I knew about the Flying Whore. He couldn’t manage that, focusing instead on who sent me a picture of the two of them together. That was his concern, not me, not the kids, nothing but. Who betrayed him. No, there was no staring at the ceiling concerned about the pain he caused, for Narkles the Clown. So, now he can stare at a different ceiling, in a different house.
Yes to all of the above. I read Runaway Husbands three times and even had my own story included in this most recent edition.
Mistakes have consequences. Period.
Since you asked, I do have a piece of advice. Fellow chumps, each day do one brave thing. One small brave thing. It will make more of a difference than you could ever know. #oneweek
I am going to take you up on your challenge! I will start by cleaning my car out…..it scares the crap out of me right now! THEN, I will come up with another for tomorrow. xoxoxox