Got Used After Being ‘Friends’ with Ex
Being friends with her ex didn’t work out as she expected. He benefited. She got used.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I am ashamed to write this — I was duped twice by the same fuckwit. Back in October 2016 I accidentally discovered over 300 emails between then-husband and two women spanning three years. He was in love with one of them. (The other — a friend I thought — was mostly sexting.) He emailed her while we were on a family vacation in Hawaii. Some emails he made fun of me and my terrible body. Other emails he disclosed private medical info about one of our kids and disparaged him.
After many months of trying to see if it was fixable, I filed for divorce.
Got rid of him and started my own company which, over the past 6 years, has been very successful allowing me and our three kids to live a normal life. But I’m so busy working and raising kids (I have them 100% of the time), I don’t have the time or energy to date. (And maybe I’m a little scared. If my own husband didn’t think I’m worthy of love, who will?)
For the past few years we’ve been on good terms.
“Friends”. I’ve let things go — like late support payments — to keep things cordial for the kids. I pay most of our oldest son’s very expensive tuition even though we are supposed to split it. He cried poor and I believed him. He is always very late with his financial aid forms. I nag him — I need this/that. He would eat my food, lay on my couch, hang out at my house. I let him. For the kids.
Fast forward to last week. He tells me he’s in a serious relationship. She’s very successful and in the same industry as me. He told my children A MONTH AGO and told them not to tell me. For the past 6 years I’ve bent over backwards to keep the kids out of it — not put them in the middle. He implied to the kids I could not know because I’m emotionally unstable and couldn’t handle it. To be honest, he seemed to delight in telling me the news. Stick it to me.
What keeps going through my head is: I AM SO STUPID.
Please tell me how to fix myself. I was at MEH. Now I am angry that I have been indirectly subsidizing his relationship by letting his support payments slide. I am terrified this women will take my place with my kids. He told my daughter (15) he cannot wait for her to meet Schmoopie pie because she’s so nice! My daughter and I have been so close. But since this happened we’ve been off. He spends time with her on the weekends for sport events. I feel her pulling away.
How do I find MEH again?
How do I kill the green-eyed monster inside of me with this new woman in my kids’ lives? And how do I not get fooled a third time?
Sincerely,
Fooled Twice
***
Dear Fooled Twice,
Thank you for the public service announcement on why being Friends with Your Ex For The Children is untenable. Despite abundance evidence of his character, you somehow bought the idea that his fuckwittedness could be managed.
He can blame your cellulite for his wandering dick, but surely he’ll come through on the tuition bill, right? Because his obligations to The Children should outweigh any animosity toward you. He’ll do the right thing! Eventually!
No.
Because shitty character is one-size-fits-all.
YOU didn’t make him shitty. Your failings real or imagined didn’t make him shitty. It’s who he chooses to be.
Dancing about trying to accommodate him just solidified his narrative that he’s splendid and deserving of special exceptions. You can no more nice a FW into being a good parent than you can yell at a hurricane to turn left.
Let’s examine your behavior.
Some emails he made fun of me and my terrible body. Other emails he disclosed private medical info about one of our kids and disparaged him.
This is not the basis of being friends with an ex. This is the basis for eternal banishment from your life forever.
Consider why you don’t let yourself have authentic feelings about him. Like anger, hurt and betrayal. Have a listen to our last episode of Tell Me How You’re Mighty where Diane Strickland talks about societal messages around women’s anger.
I realize hard emotions are exhausting, but so is eating shit sandwiches. You were always within your rights to be incandescently furious at this horrible man and have nothing more to do with him, except that which is expressly decreed in your custody order.
Got rid of him and started my own company which, over the past 6 years, has been very successful allowing me and our three kids to live a normal life.
How badass are you!! Way to be MIGHTY!
But I’m so busy working and raising kids (I have them 100% of the time)
What does your order say? Is he forbidden visitation or something, or are you taking this on for him?
Quit enabling him.
It’s his time, let HIM figure out childcare, or pay you for it. I would be documenting this long history of no-showing (if that’s what is going on) in parenting software.
I don’t have the time or energy to date.
You don’t have the time or energy to gain your OWN life that isn’t centered around a FW or your kids. You shouldn’t throw anything at a FW (except maybe a brick. Oh right, if it feels good, don’t do it.) And your kids will take every ounce of everything you have, but YOU deserve your own life.
You can spend it painting or having awkward coffee dates, but it’s yours. Doing 100% leads to resentment and martyrdom, and frankly doesn’t set a good example for the kids, who will expect you to be there as a perpetual Mom Appliance.
Please advocate for yourself. If this FW has custodial time, enforce it.
(And maybe I’m a little scared. If my own husband didn’t think I’m worthy of love, who will?)
Define ‘friend.’
Your ex-husband is a FW and his opinion means less than the gum on your shoe.
For the past few years we’ve been on good terms. “Friends”.
I’ve let things go — like late support payments — to keep things cordial for the kids.
You know what keeps things cordial for the kids? Having their braces paid for. Fuck the entire cultural narrative that encourages this bowing and scraping for child support. Mustn’t get uppity, mustn’t upset His Nibs with the money requests, mustn’t be angry.
HE IS NOT PAYING FOR HIS CHILDREN.
Children he is 50% responsible for bringing into this world. Where is HIS concern that failure to pay might make YOUR life or THEIR life difficult? Are you so pickled in his entitlement you can’t see how unfair this is?
(It’s okay. The whole world at large doesn’t see how unfair it is. Ask my unpaid child support balance how I know.)
Stop letting it go. There are state mechanisms (lacking as they are) to enforce payment. Avail yourself of them ASAP.
Also:
YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KIDS.
He is! It’s not cordial? That’s on him.
He cried poor and I believed him. He is always very late with his financial aid forms. I nag him — I need this/that.
Denying you is power to him. You needing him for anything is kibbles. Stop needing him.
I know, you’d throw yourself on any grenade for your kids. But you’re going to have start choosing your grenades carefully. Financial aid? Maybe. But if dad doesn’t come through IT IS ON DAD. And the kids see who he really is. Knowledge you’ve been actively concealing from them, which benefits him, and hurts you.
This is a job for parenting software.
Document your requests. Demonstrate he doesn’t come through. Talk to a lawyer about removing him as an obstacle permanently. As you have the kids 100 percent of the time, it seems more than reasonable.
He would eat my food, lay on my couch, hang out at my house. I let him. For the kids.
I was going to shriek at you about boundaries, but then I was overcome by a fantasy of smothering your ex with a sofa cushion (if it feels good, don’t do it).
How DARE he! If you owed someone a tuition payment, would you also demand a sandwich?
By allowing this, you are modeling to your children that Dad’s entitlement is natural.
We should all let horrible people on our sofas. This is not a good life lesson.
He tells me he’s in a serious relationship.
He found a new chump appliance. Two sofas are better than one.
He implied to the kids I could not know because I’m emotionally unstable and couldn’t handle it.
Another reason to not let him around — he flatters himself with the idea that you’re still pining for him.
Are you? Utter no contact helps with that.
Apparently, you’re emotionally stable enough to pay his bills.
Stop the pick me dance.
To be honest, he seemed to delight in telling me the news. Stick it to me.
Yeah he probably did. If you were no contact he couldn’t tell you any news. He could tell the parenting software and get the cold glare of a computer screen as a reply.
What keeps going through my head is: I AM SO STUPID.
((Hugs)) You’re among the similarly afflicted. There are a lot of messages out there to do exactly what you’ve been doing. Think about who benefits from that shit. (Not you.)
Please tell me how to fix myself. I was at MEH.
Being in such close proximity to this bozo, you were never at meh.
You’ve been in some fugue state of eating shit sandwiches. Telling yourself you don’t care, when he keeps violating every reasonable boundary (pay your bills, make your own damn sandwich).
Stop it. That’s how you fix yourself. Change your behavior. Live with the discomfort of NOT accommodating him. A bunch of chumps here will tell you the sensation is temporary and is replaced with feelings of peaceful relief.
Now I am angry that I have been indirectly subsidizing his relationship by letting his support payments slide.
You’ve been subsidizing HIM.
His latest dating profile sucker is besides the point. He wasn’t “serious” about his marriage or his three children. Why would you think he’s serious about a girlfriend? Because he said so?
Whether she knows it or not, she’s one of many. The wandering dick will not be tethered.
I am terrified this women will take my place with my kids.
Let that go. You’re their mother. It’s a primal bond.
Invest in your own life and be much, much less interested in your ex, his GF, or what your kids think of them.
He told my daughter (15) he cannot wait for her to meet Schmoopie pie because she’s so nice!
I’m sure she is. Probably has a big squishy sofa and sandwiches on demand.
Look, you are DIVORCED.
This woman is not a Schmoopie. She’s not having an affair with your ex. He is free to date whomever he wants because you are DIVORCED.
Did you think that being nice would keep him faithful to you? Or tom-catting around but staying quiet about it? Examine your own magical thinking and hopium here.
Your daughter is a teen. She’ll meet the girlfriend. Go review the expression Cool, Bummer, Wow for how to handle it.
I feel her pulling away.
She’s 15. That’s what they do. News for you: they grow up and leave permanently.
Don’t transfer abandonment fears on to your kid. She’s just a kid. Pulling away from you is a natural part of teen development. As is finding you utterly mortifying and refusing to stand within 10 paces of you.
How do I not get fooled a third time
Stay away from fools.
Sounds like you are doing a lot for others. How about investing in yourself? You are incredible to have started a successful company out of all these hard times!
Well said DM!
OP you do need to start giving that kindness and caring to yourself instead of him, because he clearly doesn’t deserve it, and encouraging your kids to expect that bit less from you!
I’m a Catholic and beleive in returning good for evil but I have learnt I need to put firm boundaries around this so I do so in a way that’s not harmful to myself or others I love! My priest who I’ve confided in as well as confessed to told me I am “too soft-hearted”! and he had a point! Are you perhaps a bit too soft-hearted too OP? Look, it’s not selfish to stop giving to someone who wilfully and knowingly uses and abuses you! No, it’s being responsible- responsible for our own welfare! Even Jesus told us to love others AS OURSELVES, not more than and certainly not instead of ourselves! That means we should love ourselves and sometimes that means cutting contact with people who are harmful in any way to us!
Start loving yourself OP! Go No Contact with that parasite!
After my divorce, the hardest habit for me to break was trying to be everything to everyone but me. I immediately went no contact with the ex … oddly that was the easy part for me. And yes, anger has kept me zero contact since. But I was still concentrated on making sure everyone else’s needs were met before my own.
Therapy helped me realize I had to turn those efforts inward first. Once I got that through my hard ole noggin, my best self re-emerged. Now, those around me get my unwavering support and devotion, but I get it first and foremost. And my other relationships have all benefited as a result. Being a martyr is highly overrated.
Amen to that. A good way to see if you’re treating yourself appropriately (being appropriately kind and supportive without crossing the line into unhealthy egocentrism) is to ask “If my best friend was advising me about this, what would she tell me?” Those of us who have too often martyred ourselves will rarely go overboard, but it’s a good gut check.
Fooled twice,
You may have been fooled twice, but you won’t be fooled a third time. You are done. Cut the rope and throw that cheating leech off your couch. Lob a jar of peanut butter at his head while he runs out the front door in fear for his life. ( “if it feels good, don’t do it” mantra being the only thing that saves his fat abusive POS head at the last second)
Then look in the mirror and reintroduce yourself to a kick ass amazing woman who needs no one to complete her. She’s already whole and mighty. That’s called taking care of your kids.
Give them someone they can be proud of. Apply your oxygen mask first, just like the demo on the plane we never watch tell us to. If you tolerate abuse, you are teaching your kids that abuse is acceptable. It’s not.
“What will our children do in the morning if they do not see us fly?”
Rumi
Start being good to YOU and the ripple effect will hit them too.
Do not let this fool out of one more damn payment he owes you. Get every dime out of him you are due, FOR THE KIDS AND FOR YOURSELF. Don’t fall for his timid forest creature sob tales another second. You are done, done, done.
Great advice from CL ( always is!) to listen to her most recent podcast re anger with Dr. Strickland. It’s a great one, I’ve played it twice.
Get angry that this man has abused you by cheating on you. Get angry that he’s bad mouthed you and your kids in any way and continues to do so. Get angry he lays on your couch waiting for lunch. Get angry he pays no tuition when he should be paying half. Get angry!!
He is NOT any friend of yours! Don’t let him tell your kids who you are, you are going to show them instead.
He does not have any of his family front and center in his life, his entitlement looms too large for that.
He is an abusive man and he won’t change into some great dad or a great friend to you ever. Ever! He is neither.
Let the new Schmoop have him. He’s a con artist fraud and will continue to be one through his devoid of a soul life. Trust that he sucks.
You make your kids proud by seeing you stand up to this abuser. That’s how you do it.
You won’t lose your kids’ love, they already know who has their back and you aren’t going anywhere. ( they do become aliens in those mid teen difficult years even without a divorce, but you get them back when their frontal lobes show up in a few years, that’s normal child development, especially true with girls I found, that’s not on you. You just hold the steady sane line and they trickle back to you.)
Start being good to you today! You are an impressive person on so many fronts, stop discrediting yourself.
He, on the other hand, has zero value, so put no weight on anything he says or does. Lying liars who lie don’t get to weigh in on our worth.
Start construction on your wall and reinforce it every day. Your life will be amazing when you lose that termite who’s been given free rein to chomp it down. Step on him and live the beautiful life that’s out there waiting for you to show up.
👏📣 Preach!
Reading this was a great start to my day. Thank you!
In additionto CL’s advice/comments, i absolutely, 100%, totally agree !
Awesome advice!!!
Fooled Twice,
Don’t be too hard on yourself. CL gives the best advice, and she shoots it straight with no sugarcoating. I think that if every Chump disengaged their FW immediately on DDay went full no contact and lawyered up with no delay, they would all be better for it. No doubt. And they would not regret that plan of action one bit.
But we are human and imperfect and most of us don’t do that. Most of us don’t discover that path on our own, and we find CL/CN at a later date. There are a few incredibly mighty chumps that pull that process off all on their own and that’s amazing, but most of us flail about for a bit, or longer.
It’s ok to feel stupid, but don’t wallow there. Just learn, do better and move forward.
I completely understand your fears about the GF and your daughter. I can’t state it better than CL. You’re the mom. No one is replacing you. And unfortunately, teens pull away. And the timing here is unfortunate in that her natural search for independence is coinciding with a time where you are feeling insecure about your relationship with her. But you need to adjust your thinking and recognize that this isn’t about the GF. Speaking of the gf, I understand if your FWs new relationship has you feeling icky. Maybe it would help to focus on the fact that she’s not an AP. She is dating a single guy, not helping him to cheat on you. It’s normal to feel jealous, but it might take all this down a few notches if you see her as an innocent bystander. (hell, you could pity her, if this gets serious it won’t likely end well for her) My FW hasn’t found anyone worth mentioning yet, but I know he is dating. It doesn’t make me feel good. The thought of him getting a do over after screwing up my life. But I remind myself that at least whoever it is, they won’t be the AP. That fizzled out. So on that level, a new gf is preferable. And realistically, jealousy is wanting something for yourself that someone else has. Do we want these cheaters back? No. We don’t. We want the illusion back, the relationship we had before we found out they were cheats. We can’t have that back, it never existed. So don’t be jealous.
I also have tried to be friends with the FW. I also told myself it was for the children. But it was just a weird attempt to salvage something of our decades together. And I felt bad as he doesn’t have the supportive community I have, and I thought it better to be his friend than his enemy. He can be a very vindictive and hate-filled person. (If Cl reads this, I can HEAR her response in my head as I type this “A mean and hate-filled person that cheated on you after decades? THAT’S who you want as a friend?”) It hasn’t been going all that great for me either. There have been plenty of times that felt nice, like we were truly friends spending some time together. But overall, it just gives him continued access to me and the opportunity to still be an asshole when he wants, and to control and affect me in ways that an ex shouldn’t be able to. What is the sense of getting a divorce if you are still going to have to deal with the asshole aspects? Time to change that. So, in summation, your letter and CL’s advice was something I needed to see today. And I bet there are others as well. That’s the beauty of CL.
“And realistically, jealousy is wanting something for yourself that someone else has. Do we want these cheaters back? No. We don’t. We want the illusion back, the relationship we had before we found out they were cheats. We can’t have that back, it never existed.”
Well said. I don’t know if my ex FW is dating, nor do I care. If I knew I would only feel sorry for whoever it was.
He told the kids, “Don’t tell Mom!” He is a piece of shit.
You keep telling yourself, “Don’t be friends with him!” You got this; you are a badass.
FW was telling my daughter to keep secrets from me. And pulled the exact same “it’s for her own good because she’s emotionally unstable” bs. I was having none of that. Our daughter and I had a long conversation, then I talked to her therapist (just as an FYI) and then the therapist talked to her about the inappropriateness of any adult telling a child to keep secrets. And I’ve been open with my daughter, hey I haven’t handled everything great since finding out about your dad (her dad told her all the details, not me) and I own that. But you can tell me anything. I am not an unstable person or an angry person. I am your mom and I’m here if you need to/want to tell me anything.
He did so many shitty things that I glossed over that particular one when reading. That really is deplorable.
So unnecessary. It’s not like he is cheating.(Not that involving the kids then would be acceptable in anyway, but he’d at least have a reason for wanting to keep it a secret)
Instead, he’s a single guy dating that is involving their kids in an awful way. And saying the mom couldn’t handle it, which seems patently untrue. She admits to feeling a bit jealous, which is common. But she isn’t having a nervous breakdown over it.
Either he wants his kid’s to think their mom is unstable, which is very gross.
Or he wants mom to keep allowing his payments to lapse, her food to be eaten and couch to be laid upon while he can’t even bother being honest with her. Also very gross
He wants to be a cool kid teamed up with them against their mom. It’s not deep.
CL is right. You were never at meh. You can’t be meh while still letting a FW walk all over you. Get legal on his refusal to pay support or have the kids 50% of the time. I’m for removing his parental rights, so as CL says, document all of it. Do not let him in your house, do not talk to him except through your lawyer or parenting software. It seems he knows exactly how to manipulate you, so any contact is dangerous.
I will add that since he has this girlfriend with a great job, he can’t cry poor anymore. If you choose to keep the kids in his life (I wouldn’t, but your mileage may vary) she can damn well pay some of his other debts so he can meet his obligations. If she won’t, that’s his problem. Whichever direction you go in, enough with being a doormat to anyone, let alone a piece of garbage like him. He disparaged his kids to his hoes and he doesn’t pay his half for them? Oh hell no. That hog-wallowing prick needs to not be in their lives in any shape or form. He needs to be completely out of yours as well. Then you can get to meh. You can get to meh with some contact, as long as you keep it businesslike and aren’t vulnerable to the FW’s mindfuckery. It’s obvious you are vulnerable to it. You are walking on eggshells for him, afraid to anger him in case of what? He already refuses to honor his obligations, so what else can he do if you piss him off? I suggest you get in touch with your anger, your righteous outrage about the way he has treated you and the kids.
On the issue of thinking nobody will love you, the FW not loving you is not evidence of that. He loves nobody. You say he was in love with one woman while he was fucking another? No, he certainly did not love her. Nor, sorry to say, does he love the kids. If he did he’d gladly do his share. I think you have a trust that he sucks problem. You haven’t yet faced the reality that he is a horrible person and his behavior had nothing to do with what you supposedly lack, according to him. Integrate into your consciousness the fact that that he is as full of shit as colonic cleansing tube. You are completely worthy of love.
I want to second this! I know it might sound extreme to cut him out of the kids’ lives, but think about how he treats you AND them, badmouths everyone, and then comes and parks himself on your couch like some king of fuckwits. That is horrifyingly toxic, and he’s demonstrating this to your impressionable teens.
You don’t have to be nice! Clearly it doesn’t get you better treatment or the money you are due. Insist on what you deserve and no less.
My selfish, entitled prince of fuckwits has come a long way in doing his share for the kids, but he didn’t want to. I had to enforce boundaries. He wailed out loud in the courthouse about child support. He submitted the most lopsided Disney Dad custody plan ever (lawyer was helpful for backing me up there). He would not buy the kids clothes until I gave him a date that I was going to stop sending a suitcase.
Now we are on good terms, but we’re not friends. And it’s fine. He has the choice of doing what he is supposed to without any sucking up from me, or being on the receiving end of legal action. So he does what he’s supposed to.
You CAN do this! He won’t like it, but he doesn’t have to. That’s the beauty of divorce.
I wouldn’t worry about your ex’s new girlfriend and her relationship with your kids. She’ll be great at first to make an impression but if the relationship lasts she’ll only tolerate them and they may or may not tolerate her. Of course now when you insist on timely payments from your ex he’ll use the “you’re just jealous” bit. Whatever, he owes the money and has repaid your patience in the past by telling your kids you are unstable. Eff him.
Fooled Twice,
Never judge your own self-worth by what a FW says about you; either to your face or to others.
According to Ex-Mrs LFTT (and I quote directly) I am “an arrogant institutionalised weirdo with no social skills, no friends and I have a drink problem because I am pretty much tee-total.” In another of her rants she stated that “the only reason we have to get divorced is because you lack the emotional maturity to make an open relationship work.” She also stated that “you don’t deserve promotion at work, you are just not good enough and your refuse – out of pride – to play office politics.”
If I had taken any of that lot to heart, or believed any of it to be true I would have been crushed. I wasn’t because I know who I am and what I am worth, and I know that she was saying what she was saying because she was either projecting, trying to make herself feel better about what she had done or she was deliberately trying to get a rise out of me.
To be frank, given all that you have achieved (bring up your kids pretty much single-handedly and setting up a successful company) suggests to me that you are really doing a fantastic job! So give yourself credit where credit is due and go a bit easier on yourself.
Also, your FW is a dick.
LFTT
LFTT– Hah, I got the social misfit charge too. It struck me as very odd because, leading up to this charge, FW complained bitterly about how many parties I was throwing for special occasions after we moved to a new city and the kids and I were making friends hand over fist. It was so liberating after being stuck for years in a stuffy suburb that I admit we went a little crazy for awhile. Friends would help cook all the food and organize creative activities and it was a blast. But FW would even gripe when I threw birthday bashes for the kids, all their classmates and parents and teachers, many of them artists and writers and very interesting. I even “picked up” a jazz ensemble at a concert I took the kids to and they came to one event, brought their instruments and wowed the crowd. Social misfit? It was bloody Paris in the 1920s in our house but– too bad for FW– just without the booze, blow and dissolute sex circus.
FW would grump around during all these events complaining about having to climb stairs to let guests in. There’s a hilarious photo of FW taken at one of the kids’ big parties right at the beginning of FW’s sneaky, boozy affair with the pockmarked office turnip where he’s standing next to a talented and friendly young artist I’d hired to tutor the kids. The giant guy was hugging FW by the shoulders with so much brotherly warmth and a giant smile and FW looks like he wanted to kill someone.
So yeah, the misfit claim was pure projection along with what was probably a big dose of wishful thinking. FWs hate to think their victims will go on to have wonderful, active lives without them. To people with personality disorders, the truth is only what they can make others believe. They think if they repeat something enough, it will become reality.
I have GOT to quit reading CL while I’m having my morning coffee. You have a drinking issue because…. you don’t drink? You ‘lack emotional maturity’ because you chose to stick with the original, monogamous terms of your marriage? (I can bet how “mature” she would have acted if you’d told her great, this open marriage thing seems like a blast, I’m going go need you to take the kids this weekend because I have a threesome scheduled with a couple of 20somethings.)
I know this stuff is not, objectively, funny when someone you thought you would spend your life with spews it at you, but from a distance it’s like watching a child having a meltdown, only without the cute.
Apidae,
My therapist told me that my coping strategy when faced with adversity is to cut things down to size or put them in perspective by using my sense of humour (which she found a little odd), which then allows me to deal with them (which she said was incredibly healthy).
Objectively Ex-Mrs LFTT was, is and always will be an objectionable human being. Subjectively (and with a huge dose of hindsight), she is a loss to the world of comedy; her ability to do something crass, get caught, deny everything when confronted by the evidence and then say something mind-blowingly stupid would be hilarious were it not for the impact it has on other people.
LFTT
My therapist also signed off on certain types of gallows humor as a healthy survival response. She was studious about her approach to everything but maybe this was also a cultural thing we shared. She’s half Irish like me, went to Trinity and loved to laugh herself. We spent parts of some sessions busting a gut. It helped navigate my manner of dealing with the children’s reactions which also tended towards a bit of gallows humor (after the tears and breakdowns passed).
So humor for the win. I’m so proud of the kids’ resilience now and the fact that, even if they use humor to deal with life’s ups and downs, it doesn’t take the place of more serious processing and never borders on gratuitous cruelty or cynicism towards the harmless. But I gather that FW has to watch his P’s and Q’s and curtail his bs lest he trigger the kids’ lethal wit.
I get trying to be decent person, but holding him accountable needs to be added to the mix. He is sliding, ignoring the court order. Your kids may be aware of that to some extent which isn’t good. Good fathers follow court order, slackers don’t.
My kids were older (no custody), but I somehow got that I wasn’t responsible for him and wasn’t in charge of his relationship with the kids. We were divorcing, after all.
I had a conversation with one of my ex’s siblings just before the attorneys got involved about that. My ex was living in another state and hadn’t really been in contact with our kids much at all. They hadn’t seen him since he left. And the sibling was trying to make me responsible for all that. As if I had magical powers to know what was up with my distant husband at all times and could force college kids to interact with their father. It wasn’t going to happen.
Follow the court orders and draw a line. He’s responsible for his own life and relationship with the kids.
Fooled Twice, don’t be hard on yourself for being trusting and kind (what you are mistakenly calling stupid).
But – DO be VERY FIRM with yourself that this stops now.
-No more modeling martyrdom to your kids.
-No more letting his legal obligations slide. He owes money? Get a lawyer and collect it.
-No more staying at your house or eating your food. No more COMING IN to your house. If he wants to finally exercise his custody time, he can pick the kids up and drop them off.
-No more communication except through parenting software or lawyers.
-And no more listening to his put-downs and contempt for you. He’s a lazy, selfish, bad father and I’m guessing HIS body isn’t going to inspire artists around the world to sculpt him any time soon. Who the hell does he think he is disparaging your body to strangers?
Here’s how you present it to him (NOT IN PERSON) – “That’s great! Sounds like you are finally getting back on your feet. I know I’ve let some things go, so it’s the appropriate time to get child support and a more reliable custody arrangement back on track.”
I bet he’ll nope right out of your couch the minute he realizes the sympathy and free sandwiches aren’t coming.
Fooled Twice: If this were me, I’d stop the leak. When you’re in a flood, try to turn off the water if you can. Recognize that this man is not and never has been a “friend” of any kind, he’s the worst kind of deceitful, betraying enemy and HE STILL IS. I don’t know why he’s like this but it doesn’t matter….just believe that no matter what he does at some point he will try to use and hurt you and possibly your kids, even indirectly. It’s the kind of smiling monster that he is. If this were me….I would sit down my kids and explain what happened between their dad and me. The actual truth. I don’t know if you told them this but they should know, especially if they are teenagers. Don’t worry about disparaging him or destroying any “love” that have for this creep, because someone like this is not worthy of love, especially from trusting kids. HE WILL ABUSE THEM EMOTIONALLY TOO and they have to be prepared for this. I am not one who believes in just letting the kids figure out their own relationship with the cheating spouse because kids don’t have life knowledge and understanding of the facts usually to do that unless you tell them, in a very calm way….this is what your father did, this is what he is doing with payments to me, etc. To have a relationship with him that is not harmful to them (or you) they need to KNOW what he is REALLY like. STOP PROTECTING HIM. Tell them the truth and as much evidence as they need and are capable of handling at that age. Hell, show them the post you just wrote to CL! NEXT….I would go to my lawyer and go after every single goddam dime he owes you and make sure that he has to fulfill everything in the divorce down to the last goddam cent. Even if you don’t need it. WHY? Because bad people should not get away with bad behavior – it’s not only wrong, but it makes them want to do MORE bad behavior because they glory in getting away with it. It will also make you feel a LOT better because you won’t feel like he lied and cheated and tricked you again, which he did, with the help of your naivete. Remember, this man who was so abusive of you during the marriage…IS NOT YOUR FRIEND AND NEVER WILL BE. When you declare him a permanent enemy in your mind and one that has to be contained and neutralized, it will end up making you feel a lot better because YOU will have some control of the situation. Control is not just not caring and walking away from everything….control is getting angry, and taking back some control over a situation, and rectifying to whatever extent you can, ways in which you have been abused. As for Schmoopie, once the kids know what Dad is REALLY like, they can figure that out on their own, but never never never give this man any kind of break ever again. EVER. Once you’ve set up THESE boundaries, you’ll have a lot less trouble from this snake and you truly won’t have to be involved with him again….unless he starts pulling shit again. You see, the monetary agreements are not necessarily because you NEED them….they’re because they are his RESPONSIBILITY ANG OBLIGATION and YES, they ARE a punishment for the incredibly bad way he treated you and the kids. STOP BEING NICE AND GET ANGRY!!!
I gotta call this one out:
“He told my children A MONTH AGO and told them not to tell me.”
This is inherently manipulative. It forces on your children the choice of betraying one parent’s confidence or lying to the other parent. There’s nothing a child can do that doesn’t end up undermining their relationship with one of their two parents, and the worst is, they never even asked to be put in this situation.
He will always do this, he’s an evil mofo. That’s why she needs to tell the kids what he did in the marriage, why it broke up, if they don’t know, and what kinds of things he’s done since. It sounds like they’re old enough to know. They should know what Dad is REALLY like, I never believe in sugar coating the other parent if they’ve done bad things. Kids need to know if they can trust someone and that includes a parent. If a parent is not trustworthy, kids need to know that too, in an age appropriate way. Obviously you don’t tell a 5 yo the same things you’d tell a 16 yo but they need to know Dad or Mom does not keep promises or even legal agreements.
Part of the reason I believe my two kids were so angry with me during and right after divorce is I decided to no longer deflect Asshat’s bad behavior and triangulation of them. I decided I was no longer going to save Asshat from his bad life choices.
Five years down the road and my relationship with the kids is solid. Going NC early was key. I’m no longer reacting to Asshat. In fact, I’m not even responding, even when he emailed me in 2019 about getting engaged and that I shouldn’t talk to the kids as they were having a hard time with it all. Fuck that. I’m their mom and will always care about my kids and no one will tell me how to mother. Shit sandwiches for sure have been eaten, but it gets better and better.
Don’t let his lazy add anywhere near the inside of your house. Model healthy boundaries for your children or they will behave like him and walk all over you. Believe me because been there, done that. Start respecting yourself even if you’re afraid of a result that may or may not happen. You count more than the FW who’s shit on your shoes.
FT: The more you let someone treat you like a Chump…..the more you will FEEL like a Chump. Stop being a Chump. STOP BEING NICE AND GET ANGRY. And make sure the kids know what he has done in the marriage and afterwards and what he is really like. You don’t have to embellish it, just the facts ma’am, but they need to know what kind of person is trying to pull the wool over THEIR eyes and turn them into Chumps too.
In general, women spend too much time being nice and we’re really afraid of showing our anger…or hatred….and taking action. These are things that we should do to gain or regain our own power in the actual physical world. Sometimes you have to fight back. It’s good for you even you’d rather play nice and pretend we all love each other. Sometimes you need to kick ass, and when you do, it’s very gratifying even if you lose. The fight itself does you good and it’s a good role model to kids. Always stand up for yourself and others, don’t try to be the “nice” person because that’s just gonna get more sand shoveled in your face. Bad people LOVE nice people because they can abuse, humiliate and steal from them. But they never ever appreciate your “niceness” or finer qualities because they think these are NEGATIVE THINGS that mark you as prey.
“Bad people LOVE nice people because they can abuse, humiliate and steal from them. But they never ever appreciate your “niceness” or finer qualities because they think these are NEGATIVE THINGS that mark you as prey.”
Quoted for truth.
Dear Fooled Twice—
I kind of suspect the adventure with Madam Money Bags isn’t going to last very long as soon as FW is being held responsible for child support and his own upkeep. And if she does, she’s a fool and he’ll soon be dicking her around as he did you while robbing her blind. Just back away and find a bomb shelter to avoid the fallout when it blows.
From what you write, this man sounds detestable. Doing the disgustingly misogynistic triangulation thing of mocking your body was bad enough. But mocking or otherwise disparaging any child’s health struggle– moreover his own child’s health struggle– is the mark of a criminally inclined psychopath.
Back away just to stay away from this dangerous individual. The fact that he’s now committing parental alienation against you by casting you as mentally ill(and God knows what else) is in itself dangerous. The more access he has to you or knows about your life, the more fodder he’ll gather to feed character assassination which could lead to a whole host of big and small disasters like losing your business or losing clients or social isolation in your community, etc., etc.
Look at his actions here: he means you ill. He wants to harm you, something that probably relates to typical abuser psychosis where, for whatever twisted reason, they secretly don’t want former partners to move on and have happy lives. Basically as he lounged on your couch, he was cock-blocking so no other bloke would end up lounging there. It’s sort of like Louis XV declaring “After me, the flood!” Don’t stick around to find out all the ways he might be able to accomplish his campaign of harm and isolation. In fact, I wonder if you’re fear of his backstabbing is one of the reasons why you let him hang around for so long and haven’t been dating– as if you had a tiger by the tail and were afraid to let go and “displease” him lest his campaign of social ruin or whatever other craziness he’s capable of amped up. Well, you didn’t let go but he amped up anyway so there’s no point in placating him. Unleash the full brunt of family law on him and stay as far out of his reach as possible.
Dont stress. You are the mother and show up parent. Schmoopie is not their mom. They know the difference. You are not replaceable. They may all get along initially but it wont last. Inevitably, Schmoopie will get pissed and jealous about something regarding your kids. 70% of second marriages fail and the other 30% are not necessarily happy. You dont even know how long this will last.
But I guarantee the honeymoon with your kids wont last.
Also, keep in mind that 15 yr old daughters pull away from their moms anyways at this age. They start identifying with their peer group. She is preparing to leave the nest so needs to pull away. Just stay consistent and normal. They start to come back to you by age 20. There is alot of information on how to deal with this and act as a mom. Unfortunately its normal behavior for her to pull away. It feels hurtful but they need to become independent adults. Dont take it personally.
As far as your FW goes. Sounds like you are still emotionally tangled. You may be tempted to have him over still to stick it to GF, but she could be anyone. He is allowed to have GF, wives, friends. But if your jealous, thats not good. You are super busy keeping it all together. You are working so hard, if he paid his share maybe you could work less and get your own fun life. He is still using you. He sounds terrible.
I unconsciously did that curation of the FWs identity and relationship with the kids thing (in my case bumbling forgetful funny man) for the whole marriage. I wrote scripts at the kids’ parties so they could laugh and delight at funny man dad’s antics, but I also scripted him. I don’t know if he actually had a personality, but if he did it was certainly not the one I manifested to make a weird situation benign. If I hadn’t worked in DV and saw the manipulation for what it was once “the truth was revealed” my FW would probably be wandering in and out of the house doing the same thing as before, being vague and bumbling, with me making light of it thinking I was exercising agency and doing the right thing for the kids having some sort of open door policy. It’s amazing how smart women can be fooled by these buffoons. Rip the bandaid off and watch the fuckwit reveal himself in all his glory. It really is a repulsive site to behold once they lose control (reminds me of the scene in Ghost where the Carl goes to hell).
Yes, I clued my ex for years, trying to get him to see our kids as individuals and to be an engaged father. It wasn’t easy. The kids knew what I was doing and cited that some months into separation for a reason (among many) as to why they didn’t want anything to do with him. They were also mad at me for enabling him in various ways. I could see that, too.
After he settled in another state, I decided to be the best mom of older kids that I could be, father or not. And there it was, black and white. It was like they barely existed to him. They figured it out.
Lol, I think a lot of us are guilty of doing “build-a-bitch” with these empty vessels. Just remind yourself that this was probably partly fueled by these types’ tendency to mirror, mirror, mirror. You may not have fallen into the trap all on your own but might have been led down the path a bit because these cyphers are like crustaceans always looking for shells and personalities to occupy.
I can remember from early in the marriage when FW “wouldn’t get” something I was talking about and I would eXpLaIn and then he’d have some dramatic “come to Jesus” reaction and would excitedly tell all his friends and his favorite college professor how ethically and philosophically brilliant I was and how meeting me had clarified so many things for him! The message was obviously for me to keep doing that party trick. But I think that, in the long run, FWs are like the Goeth character from Schindler’s List who, after getting coached on mercy by Schindler, practices playing “merciful savior” in the mirror for a minute but gets bored, grabs his gun and shoots the stable boy who smudged a saddle. Disordered people may like to cosplay and try on different personalities or ethical constructs but will ultimately return to factory setting.
Was Fooled Twice under the impression that if she played the part of the Cool Girl — demanding nothing of him, letting all the bad behavior slide while he napped on her couch and she made him food and did his laundry, etc — that he’d want to resurrect a relationship with her or something? It’s odd that she’s flailing because he now has a serious girlfriend (who she disparagingly and inaccurately refers to as “Schmoopie Pie”)? I mean, this is her ex-husband…
She’s paranoid that New Girlfriend is going to replace her with the kids?! They just met this person. How did that idea get into her head? It’s better for the kids if they like Dad’s New Girlfriend and feel comfortable in her home. Because it seems like she’ll be part of their new normal, at least for a while.
For the kids, remember?
Very, very NOT meh. Was never even close and as far as I can see, no serious attempt at meh was ever even made to begin with. This was a failed Pick Me dance. Her ex-husband walked all over her during the marriage, and she’s let him walk all over her after the divorce, too. I don’t think any of it was for the kids, tbh: I think it was for herself because a small part of her still carried a torch for the guy.
I see no mention of therapy in this letter and I think Fooled Twice would benefit from it. Usually I don’t agree with anything that an FW says, but maybe Fooled Twice is in fact a tad emotionally unstable, at least when it comes to this weird relationship that she has with her ex. Needs to go 180. Needs to go grey rock. Needs to go No/Low Contact. Needs to get every penny of child support.
Laushell 22–
The language you’re using is pretty rough. “Flailed,” “paranoid,” “emotionally unstable”?
As a former advocate for survivors of domestic violence, I learned there’s an alternative explanation for why victims may feel compelled to placate abusers, even ex-abusers. It’s part of Stockholm syndrome/captor bonding to behave like one has a tiger by the tail and fully letting go may trigger the abuser to amp up abuse.
There’s also plenty of reasons for survivors to fear subsequent partners of former abusers– because abusers who’ve been rejected by victims invariably triangulate against victims and will pour poison in the ears of anyone who will listen. Generally the types of people willing to listen to character assassinations and spin like this have personality disorders of their own, possibly some internalized misogyny to boot. So though subsequent partners of abusers may be merely fresh chumps, there’s also a very high probability that they’ll turn out to be enablers or proxy abusers who may even aid and abet abusers in punishing former victims, such as contributing to campaigns of child alienation. Furthermore, when it comes to cheaters, there’s always a chance a cheater’s subsequent partner will turn out to have also been a former cheating partner. Consequently, I can understand why Fooled Twice is bracing for fallout. Maybe “Schmoopie” was a Freudian slip or Fooled Twice knows more of the story.
In any event, I don’t think echoing the kind of crazy-baiting, blaming language that abusers use against victims is helpful. I’m not a fan of attack therapy.
Agreed, HOAC.
Fooled Twice,
Okay you screwed up. So what? Can you fix this? You sure can!!! You need to trust that he sucks and he always will. Will he rage, scream and cry when you put boundaries down and enforce them? HELL YES! They are your boundaries, and he doesn’t have a voice in them. As everyone else says, NO CONTACT or at least minimal contact. You can do this through an app. He doesn’t like it? Tough!!! You need to go strictly by the terms of your decree. He fails, let the courts know.
Also, you need to have a bit of life yourself. Allow yourself some pleasure between kids and work. You need this for your health. Get the mani and pedi,, workout, just do something for YOU. Okay, he criticised your looks (we all get that), ten bucks says you are probably pretty nice looking and you have the ability to love!!!! He sucks so he would not know what constitutes true beauty. You are mighty!! You can fix all this but it does mean you have to be able to be you and not always an appliance.
Most of all, the FW does not lounge around your place. He does not get any slack on paying what he needs to pay, and you do not let your boundaries down for a FW. Keep on being mighty but do so with grace for yourself and boundaries to keep FWs away.
You did so well with your Divorce!!!! Don’t slide all the way down the hill to WORSE THAN NOT DIVORCED. Girl, did you have sex with him too? Him, Looking so delectable on the couch with your sandwich on his lips. I’ll cover my ears, don’t tell me!! Because this guy, your presumed X is actually living in cake. Swirling in batter.. The best cake you can dream of. He gets off all the responsibility and you have it ALL!!! YOU ARE OF USE and he is using you to the max !!! This is like living in Antarctica and telling everyone you are on the beach in Cacun. This is NOT MEH my dear, you are feeding this man, you are still hooked, SMOKING HOPIUM, maybe if you’re nice he will be kind???. Would you take a wild orangutan and let it live in your house? That’s what you got. Then you wonder why your house smells like a primate exhibit.
Of course I did this dance too until I found out after DDay and then I shut it down with God’s help and all my friend angels. It now will be much harder for you to get the dog poop off your shoes since you went dancing in it. But you can do this!! No Contact, get off my couch, go away forever!!!!! Your kids will hate you or love you. They have their own attachments
What you modeled was terrible, but you can do better. My daughter hated me for 12 years, blamed me as her dad did. But now she knows and we are the best together. Time will be on your side but you must CUT..THE CORD or choose more suffering. You can do.it!! Read Tracy’s book over and over, learn from our mistakes and victories. Write back when you’ve washed this 100% user jerk and all his woman out of your hair. Get support to get out. Don’t go alone. We send ((hugs))
YOU are AWESOME and you are stronger than you know. Keep kicking ass and stand up for yourself. Don’t talk to you Ex at all. I get the part about hurting over your kids. I am 2 years post-divorce and still struggle. When my Exhole found out I was dating I had to give his full name, dob and address to Ex. I just found out from my kid that Exhold has had a woman living with him for over a year! No name or information given to me. Kid was told “don’t tell your mother”…When I questioned my child about if that was a good thing to do, she said “what happens here stays here, what happens at dad’s stays there”. I am still fuming over that response but am chalking it up to teen brain. Good luck! P.S. I am going to re-read Cool, Bummer, Wow for strength.
I feel for the OP. I get trying to be a good person but these people are not good people, they just see kindness as something for them to use against you like a weapon. It will literally harm you to be kind to these people.
Chumplady is so right about character. Years before the discard, my ex came to me to tell me a woman we knew was sending him nude pictures of herself cheating on her husband with various men and women and offering him sex. I was floored. She had just given birth to a child within two months of him telling me this and had already cheated with at least three people since that birth according to the pictures. I wanted nothing to do with her and felt horrible for her husband but discovered he already knew she constantly cheated on him but was trying to hold it together for the sake of their three children. (Well, maybe her 3 children, who knows if they were actually his with her disgusting “lifestyle.”)
Anyways, what really bothered me, and what nobody in my life I tried to talk to understood about this, was that she started sending these pictures BEFORE we went to her home for a brunch around Thanksiving. I could not wrap my mind around the idea that my husband could sit at this man’s table, eat his food, knowing that his wife was cheating on him and trying to cheat with him. I remember asking him, “How could you do that? You acted so normal, did it not bother you incredibly while you sat in his home and watched him hold his newborn that you knew his wife was attempting to destroy his family with you? How could you sit there?! Why did we attend that event?! Did you feel anything when you interacted with their children?”
Everybody said I should be grateful he told me. I couldn’t get past how he could do that. It didn’t line up with who I thought he was as a person. It was his true shitty character peeking out.
“It was his true shitty character peeking out.”
THIS. I think good people, which is what most Chumps are, just can’t imagine how really BAD many people are. I mean…..rotten to the core. Some people have no redeeming qualities or values, they’re just predators who only live for the next meal, whatever that happens to be.
Sick folks.
My fw told me stuff “other” guys were doing. I suspect most of those tales where confessions of what he was doing, not other guys. He told me about three months before Dday that whore (his direct report) was “dating” a 50 year old married man. In fact she was actually “dating” a 40 year old married man in the person of my husband. Oh I have no doubt she dated plenty of older married men. It was pretty common knowledge, but in this cased he hit the jackpot and got the town whore for his very own.
He also brought his whore into our house to introduce his employee to me.
It boggles my mind what has to be in these fw’s heads when they do this stuff. Scary really.
I think it adds to the excitement for them, the idea they’re getting away with something so daring as introducing their whore to the wife. Really sick and twisted.
I don’t think this is really about the ex; it seems more like it’s about encroachment.
You divorced him and built a new life. You started your own company and are successful!
So let’s look at it as though it’s a real estate problem. Say you lived with an idiot and broke up and sold the house you shared. You bought a new lot by yourself and built a new house. He kept coming over and you ceded some access to your new home in exchange for some peace. Not ideal, but you could live with it. Then the idiot decided to buy the lot next door and build a new McMansion that looms over your lovely house. Now that’s a problem. He’s overstepping boundaries and creating a whole new dynamic. He has a new woman who is very successful in your field. The same field that you carved out on your own. And they’re triangulating with your children against you, interfering when and where he hadn’t before. That’s a huge problem but it’s a different facet of the same problem. He/they are encroaching on the life you built.
You’re going to have to figure out what you want and set new boundaries. No secrets with your kids for starters. No hanging out at your house (he probably won’t want to anymore anyway). And now that he has a partner and his financial situation is more stable, he pays what he owes, when it’s due. No emotion, just facts. He likely won’t comply, because he’s a fuckwit, so grey rock like you invented the term. Like training a dog – consistent reinforcement.
Good luck!
Fooled twice, I understand the anxiety around being replaced as their mother. I’m here to reassure you it won’t happen. Early post-divorce ex & I still hadn’t settled where our daughter would go to school. He had already moved 30 minutes away and bought a house with other woman. I had just bought in the city where we had been living before he left. We had to go back to court, and it killed me to read how he was playing happy family with the new chick and her kids, and making my presence in my daughter’s life seem utterly unimportant. That this new gal and her family were so wonderful and loving, and my smaller family was just chopped liver. I had so much anxiety and anger and lost so much weight. Thank goodness my therapist really helped center me and remind me, “You’re her mother! You can’t be replaced!”
We got the school stuff settled (court sided w/me) and to his credit, he sold the new house and moved back to the area (Didn’t want to give up 50/50 and have to start paying support in all likelihood). I’m the show-up and emotionally present parent. Does (now) step-mom take care of her at her dad’s house? Sure. I don’t bad mouth her dad or her step mom over there, but my daughter has gone from venting about her step-siblings, to now venting about her step-mom. My fears were unfounded. Step mom’s priority will always be her two kids, and her parenting style is very, very different.
15 year olds can’t stand their parents. I remember the screaming matches I had with my mom. We’ll never be super close, but things mellowed out around my senior year, and continued to get better after that.
Tracy is so on the money with this. My ex bemoaned the fact that as soon as he left me, I blocked him on FB. That was more upsetting to him than leaving me and his son for periods of time until he “found a place he could have our son over”. So yeah. I’ve seen wineglass spills deeper than him. He didn’t understand why we couldn’t be friends? I told him, “I have friends, and friends don’t treat me like this”. It is one of the few things I did right at first.
Teenagers are going to be distant, they will test you, etc. because it is who they are. They will also tend to act out with the “safer” parent. You know, the one they don’t worry is going to leave them if they don’t behave perfectly. CL always says, be the sane parent. It has been my mantra and at this point, it is paying off. Also, get that back support, and get it enforced to the best of your ability. That is for your kids, not you. He needs to step up and if he doesn’t, he needs to pay for it with consequences. He isn’t your friend, not anymore, if he ever was. Don’t beat yourself up over the past. You know better now, do better. And don’t let him back in your house for any reason again. He doesn’t belong there.
““I have friends, and friends don’t treat me like this”. It is one of the few things I did right at first.”
I like that response. In my case when he suggested “friends”, I said: “No, I am particular about who my friends are” I like your response better though.
Your ex is a frenemy at the very best. I wonder if your history is to keep other frenemies in your life & that’s how you’ve ended up having your ex as one too? https://www.thecut.com/article/how-to-spot-frenemies.html
I feel heard and seen for the first time in years reading these comments. So many resonated with me – you get it!
One thing I really need to clear up – I feel nothing for him. This is NOT a failed pick me dance! Ick. Other posts hit the nail on the head: encroaching on my life – disrupting it again! The stress and worry about money and tuition – tiger by the tail – yes that! I thought by letting him do what he wants I’d have a better shot at getting funds/cooperation.
I also think with the don’t tell mom nonsense- a ptsd response clicked in me – betrayed again. My brain short circuited for a few days.
Finally, yes, I’ve been the good girl. The pleaser. The martyr. I don’t think I realized until I read these comments that there’s another option – be angry! What an amazing discovery! All I remember from 2 years of therapy is that I need to forgive him to move on. (And self care, which martyrs don’t do.)
I started NC 2 weeks ago. It’s actually been quite nice, except that he’s not responding when I ask him for tuition checks. I have spoken to a lawyer and can have her deal with c.s. (Among other things.)
(One final note – his fancy new g.f. is married!!!! Ugh. I sort of feel bad for her. She’ll be on here next.)
Wait — feel bad for her!? Why!?!? She’s a cheater!
Pity can be a dangerous thing. Watch out for it.
You got bad therapy. There shouldn’t be an emphasis on forgiveness, but an emphasis on overcoming trauma. Forgiveness is your own private matter. I consider it acceptance and rejecting revenge. And it’s not immune to anger, and it doesn’t mean “friends.”
As for the new GF, tell the husband. Golden rule, you’d want to know if it were you. #TeamChump
I can also see staying out of it because NC with your ex is a higher value, but generally I’m in favor of telling people you know they’re being cheated on.
Wait, genuine question, if SHE’s married, then she’s a FW, too. Why do you feel bad for her?
Yeah, absolutely no reason to feel sorry for the schmoopie…fw and her deserve each other. Both pathetic individuals.
I’d have a hard time as a mother with a 15yr old daughter to not chime in and ask out loud how nice Schmoopie pie’s husband thinks she is? Oh her husband doesn’t know? (Aside, I’d 4sure be filling him in. Create an email ot fb acct with an alias and let that chump know!)
There’s such a lesson here for a young person for integrity, honesty, doing the right thing, lies and deception, truth always surfaces.
4giving a perp is BS, not necessary. Accepting and forgiving oneself is more important and for me forgiving myself has been the hardest part.
I read a long time ago when I was trying to unravel what was going on that a person is unlikely to leave a relationship unless they have another one to go to. The fear of being alone is too scary a thought. Unfortunately, the chump doesn’t get the choice and on top of realizing they’re a chump, now also have to come to terms with going it alone. All so overwhelming. When one door gets slammed shut another one opens, it’s just the hallway in-between that’s the challenge and there’s CL’s book to guide you through!
I had the same question.
You are Mighty, obviously you have been managing a job, your children and your finances under the most difficult of all situations to be in. Really, Kudos to you. Especially considering your FW is a very manipulating, lying and controlling FW. Seriously, trying to lie and include your children in his lies is despicable, even knowing they all suck. Now the rest of this message will not be so easy, but here is what I would do, and it will not be popular in Chumpland. Now is not the time to play nice. It’s time to find your inner Bitch, your inner Badass. Go after every dime he owes you. Explain to the children, that lying is a serious thing, and they should never do it no matter who asks them. Wake the dragon, scorch the earth. Make that fucker sorry he ever met you.
Just listened to the show with Diane Strickland– omg the FW of the week segment was so funny. LoL!
This comment doesn’t particularly relate to today’s post but I wanted to let CL know that several of the posts in today’s Guardian advice column reference Chumplady (positively!). Here’s the link:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/06/my-husband-wants-to-separate-but-i-dont-can-i-save-this-marriage#comment-164730436