He Dumped Me for His ‘Best Friend’
Dear Chump Lady,
I have been enjoying your blog for many years. Not because of any direct experience with cheating, but just because I love your (and the UBT’s) straightforward, perceptive and funny writing. Last week something occurred that gives me the opportunity to finally write to you. I apologise for any language mistakes, English is not my first language. I would very much appreciate your opinion on the recent events.
I’ve been together with my boyfriend for four years. We had, in my opinion a loving relationship, in which admittedly I did a lot of ‘the work’ lately since he has had a depression in the last year. We were supposed to go on holiday to France and Italy last Friday. However, four days before this, he came over to my house to inform me that his best friend (‘Lisa’) had confessed to him that she was in love with him. Years ago before we met, they had a 3-month fling that ended because they decided that they were better as friends than lovers, but now she was regretting that this ever ended.
He sat on my couch and told me that when she told him, he had kissed her and was now completely in love with her (for five days, in which we had also seen each other – I already thought he was rather quiet). That he “has to do something with this feeling”. That I am “his pal” and that “this is Lisa” (meaningful look — implying that I would understand because she is not just anyone?). He thus had to end it with me, but he would like to stay friends. Since I booked everything, he asked me to cancel the holiday.
Partly inspired by you, but also because in the moment I felt every ounce of respect for him drain from my body, I told him we would never speak to each other again and showed him the door. The next day I cancelled the holiday and wrote a goodbye message to his family (they are wonderful). Yesterday I went to his house and dropped off his stuff and took mine. I was sure he wouldn’t be there, because during ‘the talk’ he told me he was going to France with his family anyway (our first part of the holiday) to “really think.”
My heart is broken. Although technically he did not cheat (apart from that kiss with Lisa), I feel cheated on. Were his feelings for me ever true if he can put me aside like that? Is he making a rash decision in the heat of the moment that I should forgive him for? What do you think of all this? What do you think I should do? Thank you and please say hi to the UBT from me.
Warm greetings from the Netherlands,
Chump (?)
****
Dear Chump (?),
This story with Lisa is bullshit.
he came over to my house to inform me that his best friend (‘Lisa’)
His “best friend” is also his ex-fuckbuddy?
That’s messy. The issue isn’t being a straight person with an opposite sex friendship, it’s the BEST friend thing. And giving your ex-lover the status that is usually conferred on your partner. That’s what’s bothering me. It seems he was always a cake eater.
had confessed to him that she was in love with him.
How fabulous for him. You realize this is self-reported, right? And that he’s the passive recipient of Lisa’s overwhelming passion. That he did nothing to stoke. Because he’s a man with integrity and boundaries, and she’s a thirsty bitch who won’t stay in the friend zone. I highly doubt his story. But, whatever. Another woman to emotionally labor for him and book his holidays.
Years ago before we met, they had a 3-month fling that ended because they decided that they were better as friends than lovers, but now she was regretting that this ever ended.
FOUR YEARS LATER?
My guess is it never ended. What’s Lisa been doing for four years? Circling your relationship like a vulture?
Also, I have this suspicion that Lisa was once his girlfriend (not a fling) and you (or someone else) came on the scene and she got the “let’s be friends” (let me feast on cake unfettered!) speech you just got. And she figured some fuckwit was better than no fuckwit, so she accepted the nebulous relationship status. I love you BEST, I just fuck Chump.
Don’t be Lisa.
admittedly I did a lot of ‘the work’ lately since he has had a depression in the last year.
I find it curious that a man who says he’s “depressed” also found the executive functioning to fall in love and book a trip to France. Huh. That’s a real head scratcher.
He sat on my couch and told me that when she told him, he had kissed her and was now completely in love with her (for five days, in which we had also seen each other – I already thought he was rather quiet).
What a magic kiss! I can’t tell you how many magic kiss stories I’ve read on this blog.
He’s just the hero in his own Harlequin romance, isn’t he?
Have you met Lisa? Is there some chance she thinks she’s his girlfriend and you’re the unwitting Other Woman/BFF? Perhaps she was going to out their longstanding relationship to you and that’s why the sudden Magic Kiss story? I have a skeptical mind. Comes from years of reading bullshit.
That he “has to do something with this feeling”.
Stick it up his bum-hole? Take it for a walk around the block? Donate it to charity?
Why does his “feeling” trump treating you with respect? And not properly breaking up before confessing his Lisa luv?
That I am “his pal” and that “this is Lisa” (meaningful look — implying that I would understand because she is not just anyone?). He thus had to end it with me, but he would like to stay friends.
You could still be of use, Chump-o! You can’t expect this man to move his own sofas, or water a plant. He may require services (or servicing, if you play your cards right!)
Why on earth do fuckwits think this is some kind of special offer? Generally speaking, when you dump someone, they don’t want to be your friend. Or do you favors. Rejection is NOT the the stuff of warm bonhomie.
You know where it’s proper to break up, but still be of use? YOUR JOB. Yes, if you break up with your employer, and you do it nicely, they can be a reference. Or throw you contract work. Or be part of your career network.
I think he is confusing you with a utility company.
Partly inspired by you, but also because in the moment I felt every ounce of respect for him drain from my body,
Good. Keep trusting he sucks.
he told me he was going to France with his family anyway (our first part of the holiday) to “really think.”
That’s some self-serving baloney. He’s not in France to think. (He’s probably with Lisa is my guess.) In any case, he’s not off smoking a cigarette by the Seine contemplating his complicated love rhombus. He said this because it makes him sound noble, and not like the cake-eating, probable cheater that he is.
Were his feelings for me ever true if he can put me aside like that?
Don’t untangle his skein. The evidence shows his feelings are not that deep or genuine if he can throw away his girlfriend for a kiss. He didn’t seem to struggle much.
Is he making a rash decision in the heat of the moment that I should forgive him for?
You have no idea if this is a rash decision or a four-year affair. Could you feel safe with someone who dumps you on a whim? I couldn’t. But it’s your life. Decide if this is acceptable to you.
Also, it sounds like you’re wishing you had a choice in the matter. Hoping he’ll circle back. (He probably will,”Friend.”) He dumped you. Stay dumped.
What do you think of all this?
I think he sounds shady. And I think you have more connection to the material on this blog than a fondness for a snarky Lebkuchen-eating bullshit machine. Perhaps you’ve suspected he’s not been the best boyfriend for awhile now.
What do you think I should do?
You collected your things and said your good-byes. Stick with the no contact. Trust that he sucks.
Thank you and please say hi to the UBT from me.
It’s waving hello.
Chump,
You feel cheated on because (plot spoiler), you were cheated on; please trust your instincts as they are bang on. No-one who can be considered a trustworthy, reliable and invested partner acts as your Ex did …. and that’s just working with the information that he gave you. And work on the assumption that everything that he told you is almost certainly a bunch of lies spun to make himself look less bad.
Please use this litmus test with Cheaters; the best way to work out whether a Cheater is lying is to see whether their lips are moving on not. If their lips ARE moving then, a pound to a penny, there’s your proof right there.
On the upside, you have absolutely got this; dump him, block him, give him not one more though and move on and build a fantastic life for yourself.
LFTT
Even if he wasn’t physically cheating, it is clear our Chump friend was merely a placeholder. My guess is he is the one who wanted more back then and she didn’t, until now. So as soon as his “best friend” was good to go, he jumped. This kind of decision isn’t made on just one kiss.
I’ve been in this situation. In all likelihood, she may have just wanted to “win” and will be done with him now that he let Chump go. Chump, do NOT take him back. Do not be anyone’s plan B. You are not a consolation prize. You are mighty.
I also have a feeling he was carrying a torch for “Lisa” all this time. Ugh! Let Lisa have him. Good riddance!
I happen to know chump. She IS mighty 😎
All true, but let’s face it, he was physically cheating.
I was an unknowing placeholder for 26 years! It is the most horrible experience to find out that you have spent over a third of your expected life (more if you discount up to age 18) being second best to some person who went before. My confidence fell through the floor and, nearly 4 years out, I am still easily unhinged, in spite of all the therapy. It is its own kind of cheating hell. I have no idea if the ex and the exgf are still together because I don’t care to find out (sadly we had no kids, although she does have early adult children with the unwitting chump she married). The emails were full of the ‘soulmate’, ‘best friend’ ‘teary’ ‘yearning’ rubbish (that was just the ex, hers were worse). They deserve each other, that’s my heartfelt message to Chump(?). And Chump (?), he isn’t treating you with any respect, and that’s enough to walk (I wish I had instead of putting up with his passive aggressive abuse for 26 years).
MW,
Met too!
Imagine my surprise when I eventually found out that Ex-Mrs LFTT’s AP was a former boyfriend of hers that pre-dated our relationship. To add insult to injury I found out that their original relationship had been adulterous as well, but back then it was him that was married and her that was single. They had only stopped because the organisation that they both worked for took a dim view of that kind of thing and told them to “stop or else.”
Fast forward 25 years – by which time AP had been married and divorced twice – and they start hooking up again …. with him returning the favour as he was single and she was married to me.
Not only was I the “Plan B/Placeholder” until he came back on the market, our whole family was; she didn’t just drop me, but the kids too.
LFTT
LFTT,
Yikes “placeholder”. Uggghhh!
I have a friend who calls me to talk about her Next Plan who is a college boyfriend from 40 years ago that she continues to stay in touch with and send birthday gifts. At some point her husband is in the know, but I’ve no idea what if any agreement he has in this “relationship”. I think it’s not physical or barely emotional, but definitely a placeholding situation. Every time she calls to tell me something along those lines it makes me kind of sick to my stomach. And she even knows how it feels to be cheated on since husband did something or other a several years back.
It’s amazing the level of “non cheating” that has become the acceptable norm.
I think there are a few of us about, LFTT! Their loss!
MW,
Absolutely. I know that I’m the prize, not her alcoholic, broke and twice divorced boyfriend.
Fuck ’em both!
LFTT
Whatever he is and whatever he is doing (and I think he is a cheater and he has been cheating), he is not loyal, and that is what counts IMHO. He also (IMHO) does not know what “friend” means, that other relationship he wants you to sign up for.
I keep a stash of things I have read that help keep my thinking accurately calibrated. Here’s the one that came to mind today:
“A friend and I were talking one day. He has been happily married to his high school sweetheart for over 20 years. He is a handsome, high-end, wedding photographer and sees rich beautiful brides and bridesmaids every weekend for the past 10 years. He travels all the time for his work. He has all the chances in the world to cheat and to trade “up”. I was young and naive and we were talking about marriage and commitment, I was asking him how you know if it’s the right one, and what if someone else better comes along, etc. He said “Someone better will always come along. There will always be someone more beautiful, funnier, skinnier, or richer than your partner. But the point is to choose someone and love them for all that they are and not despise them for what they’re not. Marriage is a create, the two of you have to create your love every day, it never runs on automatic.”
So, there will always be someone “better” that will come along, there are billions of people. The purpose of marriage is choosing ONE and loving THEM like you are supposed to. It’s a promise to SHUT THOSE OTHER OPTIONS DOWN. That’s why you make promises before God about “forsaking all others” and even sign a fucking contract.”
There are literally billions of people on the planet. If I were stranded on a desert island with this guy, I would not want anything to do with him. There is no need to keep company with someone who is not loyal to you when the world is filled with people who would be. And the faster you get rid of someone who reveals they shouldn’t be picked for your team, the faster you’ll find the ones that should be.
On the subject of desert islands, I think you’d be light years better off with a Wilson volleyball as a companion.
….and that being said, getting divorced from him was the next right thing to do, as he did not have the same mindset about marriage…..
Yes!
Also my Dad said once that there is always someone “better” thinner, younger, etc, but that the relationship and life you build with a person is a shared construct that. A new person may look better in pictures, but doesn’t have those years of solid trust, shared experience and mutual investment in each other’s lives that a healthy relationship has. That he chooses his wife, but also the relationship and life they build together and share every day.
Shallow people don’t grasp that, and don’t see the value in the relationship you tried to build with them. Usually because their side is smoke and mirrors not brick and mortar.
Love this, VH!! Thanks for posting.
If it looks like a cheater and acts like a cheater, it is. Since when is it not?
Never
Girl the trash took itself out. Don’t try to bring it back in, or leave pieces of it scattered on your carpet.
Let it stay in the dumpster.
I bet “Lisa” is getting her own version of bullshit. Spin the BS wheel to see which lie she’s getting!
-We’ve been out of love for a while
-we’re sexless
-she’s mean to me
-we’re open! She’s ok with it
-I really love YOU, she’s just a friend/roommate/gym partner
This. And I would be very interested to hear Lisa’s version of the story. Maybe OP should fill her in.
And OP, when and how was all this “best friending” taking place? Were you included? Did you not sense anything off? Beyond the obvious, that she and he had and intimate past (at least). That in itself should have made it a dealbreaker. Hopefully you will take this as a learning experience and not allow this bs going forward! And believe me, I’ve been there, too!
Exactly! I remember going on one date with this guy many years ago. We had dinner and then we were back at his apartment watching a movie. We were sitting in the couch when in walked another woman. She was his “friend.” He introduced us. She had a key to his apartment. She didn’t live there, but in spite of him clearly having a date, she just decided to stay! And the most appalling thing to me was that he LET her. I was so grateful to have seen the situation immediately. I left and never contacted him again.
In my own marriage, klootzak had a “friend” before we were married. Something always felt off about her. She knew we were engaged but was always calling and leaving weird messages. One night, I mentioned it to klootzak and he laughed and said maybe she was like Julia Roberts in “My Best Friend’s Wedding” going off the deep end because he was getting married. We seriously had a laugh about it. Well, a week later and here she was on the phone again. So I grabbed it and said hey, why are you calling all the time? And she launched into this “we’re friends” business and then started to tell me that I didn’t know him like she did. I said, “Well, maybe you don’t know him, either,” and relayed how he had laughed about her over the top behavior, looking like a desperate woman calling him all the time. She hung up on me.
The calls stopped and then she emailed us both to accuse me of playing some kind of game with her and say she didn’t want to be friends with us anymore. Well, she has never been my friend so I didn’t care. Klootzak didn’t have much reaction to it.
YEARS LATER after D-day, I found the emails between them from before we were married. When he was going off on a guys’ weekend, he was driving 4 hours out of state to stay with her. He was writing to her that he loved me but was so torn by his deep feelings for her. He had her playing the pick me dance hard. She didn’t believe be would actually marry me. And on and on. My instincts were RIGHT. My gut had been right. He would call her from work in his cell phone to talk so I wouldn’t know. He called her while I was at a bridal show. I think she was leaving the messages on the land line to try to drive me off. And in an email to yet ANOTHER woman in the years after we were married, he told her that I had done some “underhanded things” to get rid of his female friends. The only thing I can imagine he was referring to was when I told his “friend” the truth that he had laughed at her behavior. Because that was the only “other woman” kind of scenario I ever had faced with him to that point. It was my underhanded behavior, he said, that made him feel like HE couldn’t trust ME. Let me say that again…. The man who was cheating on me called ME underhanded and not trustworthy because of an incident which by then was many years past when I told his side piece the truth that he laughed at her.
My hot off the press separation agreement will be in my hand today or tomorrow. Chump (?), if that piece of trash took itself out, you just let it keep on going. In my experience, cheaters like that will try to accuse you of not being enlightened enough to accept men and women being friends. They will make you out to be a horrible shrew. And the “friend” will be telling him how she understands him but you don’t. Her love story she will tell is how she won the pick me dance because she was his twu wuv all along and she opened his eyes to it. And he will say that she saved him from the horrible mistake of being with you. They think they are the lead characters in their own romantic story and will make you out to be the bad guy. You haven’t married him and have no children with him? Lady, you are blessed to make a clean break and not waste more years of your life on him.
I’m fairly certain that when I told FW, I’d been swimming/drinking with a man friend/neighbor that I’d had a crush on before FW while he was out of town working, he took that as my underhandedness and validated his cheating. At the time, I didn’t know he was cheating and had a completely different reason to tell him about my swimming/drinking afternoon. I found out later that FW was already cheating. He and OW would meet at a hotel halfway when he’d work out of town on weekends. We were only married like a year at this point.
All of the above, likely.
He feels entitled to a Get Out of Jail Free card. Dont dance. If you e been reading this blog for awhile, you know where this game inevitably leads.
If there’s one universal rule here it’s “there’s always more than you know.”
What you do know doesn’t paint him in a very good light. It’s not going to get better.
Oh heavens yes. The real story is never better. He painted it in the best possible light he could, so what does that say about what really happened? He thought this was the story she would take well. This was acceptable to her, in his mind. That tells you a lot about what he thinks of commitment in general.
I remember a night some 40-odd years ago when I was watching TV with my boyfriend at his apartment. He was acting nervous and out of sorts. I didn’t give it much thought until there was a knock on the door. He jumped up off the couch, opened the door just a crack, but enough for me to hear, “Hey, baby … you ready to go?”
I shudder to think how much better my life would have been if I had gone no contact after that episode. Instead, I forgave him, which gave him the mortar to lay the first brick and start building his secret sexual basement.
Stay no contact. You deserve better! And how mighty you are to end it then and there. Well done!
When we were dating we’d go jogging every morning. One morning he got up and said he wasn’t going jogging, he needed a day off. Thought it was odd that he didn’t mention it to me the night before, I shrugged it off but still thought something was off. Cheater left my apartment and I did my normal morning routine and went to work.
Later that evening, we were walking back to his apartment with laundry baskets when a young girl bounced up to cheater and told him how much she enjoyed their run that morning. He made up some lame excuse that she stopped him as he was walking to his apartment that morning..blah, blah, blah. The first of many lies to come… What was I thinking? I was naive.
Just being a Chump. It was the first of many something seems off moments in my future.
Well done.
You left him because the relationship was not acceptable to you.
That’s all.
You’re a bit panicked because you’re in the bargaining stage of grief.
This will pass. Hold your nerve. You won’t regret it.
Well put.
Chump? Yes. But you deserve a cheer from CN for going with your gut and ending it cleanly. Smart!!
Now here’s the tough part…. Staying no contact. Right now, even though you made the right choices right away, you’ve started the grief process. You’re doubting yourself. Questioning things. Still probably love him. Ride it through… talk to friends. Go for walks. And focus on your healing. It appears he’s a classic FW… and he’s a gaslighter. It wouldn’t hurt to consider therapy to work through it too.
Just hang in there. Trust that he sucks. He sucks. He’s a liar. And please get checked for STDs to be on the safe side.
Sounds like he just wants to switch you and Lisa in and out of the best friend / girlfriend roles as the whim takes him. Which makes him neither a good friend nor a good boyfriend, but just a selfish asshole.
i agree, HC. it’s the manipulations, the orchestrations. it’s a game. i will shift Lisa in and move Chump (?) out. that’s interesting. hey, i’m interesting! i’m LIVING MY BEST LIFE according to a script i have hidden.
once this move is completed, i will have Steve from accounting removed because he really gets on my last nerve, and took the last jello from the office fridge. then i will dominate the WORLD.
in my mind.
This is what I think is going on.
My daughter is in a serious relationship and I gave her and her BF my maternal lecture on “Intrigue and Devotion” which includes the details that cheating relationships dont jump spontaneously from rocks, they happen because a person get intrigued and the fan the flames with time and (some form of) intimacy. I go on to explain that the moment you internally recognize intrigue, it’s time to consider your primary relationship and do what you must to protect it.
This dude made all the cheater excuses to allow him to entangle himself. I also agree that the writer may have unknowingly been the OW back when they first got together when he said that he and Lisa were now buddies.
I’m echoing the statements for you to stay no contact with your now-ex.
Now that his belongings are out of your house, there is no reason to engage with him!
Be proactive: Block him on your phone, email, and all social media. If you shared streaming services, change all your passwords. In fact, change your passwords on all your bank accounts too- this guy cannot be trusted.
Get the locks on your doors changed as well. When he comes knocking (because he will), just leave him standing on the doorstep- even in a driving rainstorm.
Alternative scenario: Boyfriend, who continued to carry the torch for Lisa, was Plan B for Lisa, who kept him around for kibbles. LW was Plan B for Boyfriend, in case Lisa never came around to girlfriend status again. When LW and Boyfriend announce joint holiday together (with Boyfriend’s parents for first leg), Lisa worries she might lose her Plan B kibble provider, and announces she really loves Boyfriend after all. Boyfriend is overjoyed, tells his own Plan B (the LW) she’s no longer needed.
Conclusion: They both suck. LW is best out of this triangulation. And no, LW, you shouldn’t agree to resume your status as Plan B. Stay “no contact” and use the time on yourself that you once spent on emotional caretaking and tasks benefitting your Boyfriend. In other words, you left a cheater, and now you get a life.
The last guy I dated pre-FW was exactly like this. He’d had an on-again/off-again with a girl in his friend group. She’d met ‘the love of her life’ and ended their oa/oa thing. We met and started dating. It was pretty casual, but it went on for a few months. We had fun and I could definitely envision a future.
Suddenly, he ghosted me.
Unsurprisingly, the old gf had been keeping him on the backburner as her just-in-case kibbles provider and when she saw him actually moving on with someone else, suddenly the love of her life was HIM! Imagine that! [insert eye roll]. So kibbles provider went back to the old gf and that lasted, oh, a couple of months. Until she met the next love of her life.
As I understand it, this went on for a few years until he’d finally had enough. He’s now happily married and I have no idea whatever happened to the old gf.
Having seen this play out so many times, yes I’m pretty sure this is what it was. Plot twist, she’ll probably dump him because now he is available and she can relegate him to plan B again while she is free to pursue whatever she wants. They both are major black holes of intimacy.
I know this should be obvious but what is LW?
I know it is the Chump, bus can’t conjure up the words.
“LW” is “Letter Writer.” Another form of “OP,” for “Original Poster.”
I think it’s “letter writer”, that’s how i understood it.
I certainly agree with CL! Stay dumped and absolutely go ‘No Contact’. Respect yourself and know you deserve better, because you absolutely deserve better. He has no respect for you, but he sure is playing mind games with you. I also heard, “she’s my best friend”. No…, she was his fuck buddy. I was ‘safety’ in case the fuck buddy didn’t work out. He just failed to let me know that she was his ‘best friend’ until I found out about her. It’s utter bullshit! Let him have his ‘best friend’ and you go on and get a life. Don’t waste your time anymore with the fuckwit. You do not want to remain friends with such a moron. Be friends with authentic people.
This. And four years is a long time to be his “girlfriend” without a ring on your finger, and a wedding date. That, and the “best friend that he f**ked”, should have been your first two clues.
It is a long time yes, but it’s for the best that she isn’t married to FW, as she won’t have all the work, stress and expense of a divorce! She will be free of him without any legal wrangling!
LW try and see the fact ye weren’t married as a blessing! I rue the day I married my STBXH as I have to wait 2 years before I can divorce him in Ireland AND I’m a practising Catholic, so unless I can get a Church annulment, I’m bound by my vows until one of us dies! I bet you don’t envy me that? I have to hope and pray the Tribunal agree that he didn’t really mean his vows of fidelity and permanence, or I’ll remain spiritually tied to a man who betrayed me in the 2nd worst way possible, (the only worse way would be if he was planning to murder me!) and have to remain single for the rest of my life if I want to remain true to my Faith and to myself, which I do! I’m not TOO bothered by that at my age, but I DO want to be totally free of him, on all levels but especially spiritually, as he disturbs me now!
You ARE free now as you have no legal nor religious ties to that deceitful, treacherous, cowardly liar! Stay No Contact, seek out counselling or therapy, look after yourself and pamper yourself a bit, surround yourself with people who genuinely care about you and down the road, you’ll be relived that you never married him! You’re young, so this frees you up to start loving yourself in a healthy way so you’ll draw only decent people into your life, and eventually meet the man who will love and be loyal to you! All the best LW!
yep, à la Beyonce: “If you like it, then you shoulda put a ring on it”
This calls for a parody . . .
Music by Nat King Cole, lyrics by Chump (?)
(the tune: https://youtu.be/G2vgJ0MGOlg)
Crony Lisa, Crony Lisa, he has blamed you
You’re the reason he won’t go with me to France
Is it only for the sex that he’s reclaimed you?
To rejuvenate that teeny in his pants?
If you want him you can have him, Crony Lisa
You can be the thing he fucks while he regroups
He must ‘do something now with this feeling’
He can jam it, he can cram it
He’s your can of worms now, Crony Lisa
You’re just another in his long, long list of dupes
UXWorld – that one made me laugh hard!! Thank you
Thunderous applause. 🙂
Love it. I also think Phony Lisa would work too.
Chump, I don’t think anyone finds this blog by accident – and if they do, they certainly don’t keep reading for years for no reason. I suspect that you’ve been reading this blog for so long because you’ve been dating a cheater and liar for four years. Maybe you didn’t know it a conscious level, but some part of you was picking up on it.
Many of us were plagued by dreams and portents long before we actually “knew.” When I was young I had a recurring dream that my boyfriend was hiding something behind his back. In one dream, I caught a reflection in a mirror and realized it was a knife. That was a year before I found out about all the cheating and lying. In my marriage I had recurring dreams that my husband was driving us off road, the wrong way, over dangerous bridges and near precipices.
Sometimes our mind can pickup on patterns long before we consciously detect them.
A few years before D-day, I had a dream that FW, I, and our son went on vacation and OW was there with her kids in the lobby. At some point my son told me what room OW was staying in but that he wasn’t supposed to tell me. In the dream, I found a birthday card she had written him (blue, with glitter and a picture of spider-man – it was a very detailed dream) that something like “we breathe the same air and our spirits become one” or some BS like that. In the dream, I asked FW if she was there for him and if they were having an affair, and he tearfully said yes.
Even after that, I believed him when he said they were just friends.
It’s interesting because years later I found a bunch of her letters to FW, and they are FULL of sentimental drivel like the sentence I dreamed she’d written in that card.
I think it’s true that our subconcious figures things out long before our rational mind will admit it.
Did he cheat? I bet a year or two from now, you won’t be invested in the question. My FW swore she hadn’t gone all the way to penetrative sex with AP. I really wanted to know. But A) of course they did, probably often and for a long time, and the only reason it’s a question is because it’s hard to definitively prove, and B) what exact flavor of shit sandwich you get doesn’t change that it’s a shit sandwich.
This stuff is always miserable. But at least you got the story and can now move along. The “It’s Lisa” tells you everything you need to know. Because whether Lisa is a woodland troll or the actual Botticelli Venus on the half-shell, you cannot and should not compete, since you will never be Lisa.
All a Blur,
I would hope that in time that Chump realises that not only is she not Lisa, but also that she’s too good to be Lisa and that she should thank her lucky stars that she’s not and never will be Lisa.
Lisa won a turd. Chump won the opportunity to create a cheater-free future. I know which I’d rather be,
LFTT
Cheating does not require that any specific human body part was shoved into any other person’s body holes.
Cheating is called cheating because two people agree on a set of rules and one of those people deceives the other to “win” in a way that unfairly makes the other “lose”.
Deception is cheating.
So, in my opinion, in a monogamous relationship, any form of sexual or romantic intimacy with someone else is cheating. Kissing included. Even hugging is included, if done romantically. Even talking is included, if done romantically without you knowing it’s going on.
Stealing or spending money from a shared bank account is cheating, whether in relationship, household, or business. So is running up secret debt.
Telling your partner you can’t drive them to their biopsy because you can’t get the day off work then taking the time off and visiting someone else is a form of cheating. Even if the visit is unromantic.
I vote, when you find yourself asking, “is it cheating?”, change the question.
Did that person intentionally deceive me so they could get their own way?
Did that person knowingly violate an agreement we made?
Don’t let cheaters split hairs to get out of accountability.
If he told you the romance was over, and it wasn’t, and he knew it, and he participated in talking about that with anyone who wasn’t you, his partner, he cheated.
If he kissed someone else knowing your shared agreement was that you don’t kiss other people in this relationship, he cheated.
If he told you he didn’t have romantic or sexual feelings for someone else and he actually did have those feelings, he cheated.
He sat with you, agreed on rules, then didn’t follow them. He cheated.
You don’t need him to agree to decide for yourself that this is true.
If you saw him pee on a tree, and he tried to say no, he wasn’t peeing on it, he was fertilizing it, you wouldn’t say to yourself “oh, he was trying to help the tree, I shouldn’t be so judgey”. You’d see easily that he was splitting hairs, and that he absolutely did pee on that tree.
He did what he did. That’s his to own. And it’s definitely bad enough that ending the relationship is completely justified. He broke core relationship agreements and didn’t feel horrified about it. That’s who he is. He cheats and feels ok about it.
Let him go pee on the Lisa tree.
I agree with your definition of cheating. It’s what I always believed. Until it happened to me and I pick me danced to try and make it okay. LACGAL woke me up.
Brilliantly said!
“Stealing or spending money from a shared bank account is cheating, whether in relationship, household, or business. So is running up secret debt.”
This is part of the hidden part of the iceberg in cheating that cheater apologist never mention. It absolutely devastates the victims of this type of abuse. Their trust is used against them to benefit the cheater.
Great, great description of “cheating”! I agree. Don’t split hairs. I wish I knew this description years ago.
Dear Chump (?)… you can remove the question mark and welcome to the club.
Surviving a discard when you’ve been invested in a one-sided relationship is a real thing… and you’re doing it. Well done for getting your things and leaving a note for the family (don’t be surprised when they drop contact with you). Hope you’re planning a nice long holiday for yourself minus one fuckwit now.
If you’ve found us and CL, then hopefully you’re hearing words like cognitive dissonance and gaslighting and googling them. Your fuckwit seems quite skilled at keeping you off balance. I’d also read up on Hoovering, because if we’ve learned anything here, these fuckwits rarely run off without circling back at some point (rage, pity (I’m depressed), charm (can we still be friends)… contact – all kibbles). You need to learn how to put up boundaries and go no contact like a beast.
It sounds like you don’t share children or animals so the sooner you can go and stay no contact with him (and his family and fuck buddy friends) the sooner you can get to work on your healing and learning about red flags to help you choose better the next time.
I’m sorry this happened to you and you’re here – but on the upside, you’re amidst a group of mighty warriors and we’ll help you get past this and on to building a cheater free life.
Keep coming back.
I predict he’ll circle back with sad sausage news about his family. “Mom in hospital”, etc. If he can’t reach her by phone, he’ll show up at her door. She needs to have a plan. No contact no matter what. Don’t even open the door a crack. Literally and figuratively. Ask me how I know.
My FW was absolutely gobsmacked that I didn’t want to stay friends with him. How on earth would I ever live without the sunshine emanating from him on my face? I told him “I have friends, friends don’t hurt me like this”. Best comeback I’ve ever managed in my life.
But yeah, FWs will continue to use you as much as they can. Mine still tries to get me to do all the emotional/mental load through our son, but now that he is a teenager, I allow him to deal with his part. His dad promised to do something for him? I will not pick up the slack if I have to move things around as long as it doesn’t affect his school or medical stuff. I’ve spent my life doing everything always if his dad flakes off because I never wanted him to be disappointed, to my own detriment, but at this point I cannot do that and retain my own sanity/health. It has also been a learning experience, this week his dad was supposed to take him to do something, and if I were to “fix” it I’d have to take time off work, again. So I put the teenager to work figuring out a workaround on his own. Amazingly, he managed. It isn’t ideal but will work fine, and I don’t have to either 1. Spend the mental load figuring it out for him and 2. Take time off work to make up for FW’s failings, which he has always relied on.
FW tried to triangulate last night and keep me on texting about it, but I deflected saying he had to work it out with his kid himself, not through me. Then I went back to watching my evening show with my husband.
They won’t be friends. They just want you to be of use to them the same way as you were when you THOUGHT they were all in on your relationship. Glad you cancelled the trip, you aren’t a darn travel agent. It is so easy to continue to do the mental/emotional load if they try to keep you as a “friend”. Don’t be useful to them. Ever. They have someone to do that for them now, and it isn’t you. It took me a long time to get rid of my need to be useful to even my mate (codependent!). Now if my husband is cooking and is constantly saying “Where is the ______?” I let him find it. He lives here too, he knows how to look for stuff. And if I just let him, he has found it within seconds. I’m dropping the damn rope and giving myself some much needed mental stress relief.
In the beginning, FW kept referring to the future, when I’d be ‘over this’ and we could be friends (he even wanted me to be friends with his 22yo sugar baby/child mistress because she’s so nice and cares about me and our daughter!), I laughed in his face. I told him we will never be friends. Friends don’t hurt me or lie to me. If they do, they stop being my friends. He looked so deflated like I’d kicked his favorite puppy.
Honestly, I am the only friends he’s ever had as an adult. I think he honestly believed I’d be okay continuing to be his emotional support chump while he banged every 20-year-old who would take his money (because he paid them ALL).
Is it really codependence if the entire culture leans on women in particular to act like fill dirt and tends to punish those who don’t? I’m a bit on the fence about pathologizing behaviors that are trained into us like Pavlov’s dogs, even when these things become internalized. But I totally agree that, in the end, it’s up to the individual to learn to stop drooling every time a bell is rung, lol.
I still foster give-give types of friendships but, as they say, “That which I would gladly give I would not have taken from me.” This only works with deeply conscientious, reciprocal types. Fortunately there are people like that around. Since all of us have been taken advantage of from time to time, a favorite rollicking topic of conversation is about where the line is drawn, what the red flags are for nonreciprocal shitheads and covert users, dissection of their tactics (“fear/obligation/guilt” is the most common) and how best to cut people like that off at the knees.
“I have friends, friends don’t hurt me like this”.
Love that. My response to same was “No, I am particular about who my friends are”.
These ass holes amaze me that they think we are so desperate for them, we will be downgraded from spouse to friend in his orbit.
I just said “I don’t like being “friends” with people who abuse me, thank you!”.
I wish I’d come up with something better but considering he’d got on my last nerve by just turned up at my door after ringing when I was just about to drop off to sleep, and I’d told him I need to focus on my son and myself during that phone call in an assertive but calm way, I think it wasn’t too bad! Feck him anyway, sure why would we care what they think?
Oldie but goodie. “With friends like you, who needs enemies.”
And that’s why I would not date anyone who has female friends.
Adults don’t have friends of the opposite sex, they have acquaintaces, neighbors, coworkers and they already f*ck those too when they are cheaters, so no need to play “cool chick who accepts his best friends”. It adds no value and just teaches them what they can get away with, which is already alone female company.
Im not blaming OP in any way, Im blaming new societal standards that treat adults like children on the playground with “friends” and “boyfriends/girlfriends”. The standard for adults should be “husbands” and “wives”. I know those other trappings from the inside.
Quetzal – yes – this!! Wish I learned it down to the DNA level before I married FW. Looking back on it I also realize he has a tell – any time he says ” I have a friend and she…” but doesnt say any name, trust that there is a going concern and a big skein lurking. I don’t know if the Stripehaired Skank has figured it out, and secretly hope it takes her twice the 9 years it took me…
“so no need to play “cool chick who accepts his best friends”. ”
That is one of the biggest scams accepted by women and men in recent history. Lots of other ones in the past, but that is a modern version of “men will be men”.
Right!? I was just having this conversation with my DIL. Pretty sure she wouldn’t really be okay if her husband (my son) had a lot of women friends or “best” friends. She was shocked to find out I’d only had one good male friend who I distanced myself from after he tried to kiss me when we were hanging out (which I hardly ever did.)
Agreed, it’s a modern version of men will be men and a scam women are accepting, or say they are accepting.
Friends sure. Best friends? No thank you. I have good friends who are guys. My best friend is a woman. Any guy who thinks I’m their best friend as opposed to their own partner/spouse? Nope. I’m not up for that status and it would make me extremely uncomfortable. Everyone has their own boundaries, but this is mine.
Amen. “Best” always translates as “fuck target” when someone uses it to describe a friendship with a person of the gender or persuasion that person A is generally attracted to. I’ve been dubbed some guy’s “best friend” a few times. It was always when I was dating other people so I guess you’d categorize these guys as would be mate-poachers using the classic “friendship” infiltration tactic. It always made me mildly uncomfortable but I wasn’t sure what it meant so would kind of go along with it for awhile, though would never use the term “best friend” back. Like you, my best friends are always women. Since these “friendships” always ended with big showdown moments where the individual would put the screws to me, I now avoid the whole drama. “Friend” is fine. I have male friends but they don’t call me their “best” friend, yikes.
100% Formerchumpnowbride. I have some dear male friends from college. However, they are not close to being a best friend.
Horseshit from the fuckwit.
Grown ups fuck. Also, people who used to fuck don’t just kiss and swoon and stop.
My cheater ex-wife game me similar garbage stories. Which led to useless MC in which I tried to persuade her that since they hadn’t had sex she couldn’t know they were in love. So much wasteful, stupid storeytelling.
This guy sounds like a classic cheater. I suspect the writer had intuition that things weren’t right with the relationship — her presence on this site is a clue. Hope she stays no contact and goes on to live a peaceful cheater-free life.
I too, think that the vacation plans set in motion Lisa’s probable “Fish or cut bait” lecture to FW. She gave him an ultimatum.
I went on a 3 week road trip with X trying to sort out our issues, not knowing the issue was the secretary at his job. That trip ignited her plans – she threw out her husband, filed for divorce and faster than the speed of light – gave mine an ultimatum, which the weasel took. Told me he wouldn’t mind if I found someone that made me happier than he made me!
So noble! Only after some sleuthing I found out the truth. Yep. Vacation plans to France and Italy made Lisa up her game. They were most likely having an affair that whole year he was “depressed” meaning: emotionally unavailable to our letter writer. Ugh!
Agree!
I think that my ex’s AP also pulled this ultimatum business. According to FW, she (the AP) moved across country to live with her family (she was 50 at the time) in order to put an end to the affair. He thought it was SO noble of her. I call BS. She moved to force his hand after their multiyear affair. And it worked! D–day was 2 months later.
Oh, and he seemed to be depressed, too, after (unbeknownst to me) the AP had left him. I felt sorry for him during that period because I could see that he seemed sad and worried that maybe he was upset about retiring or was unhappy because of something I HAD DONE. #chumptakestheblame Now I know that he was depressed because the AP had left, and he had to choose between us. No more cake. No more triangulation. Shit or get off the pot. That he saw her as noble rather than manipulative is interesting to me.
FWs seem to always mind when chumps find someone who makes them happier. I get the feeling that cheaters in the throes of being ultimatum’ed and arm-twisted by side pieces go into FOMO paroxysms and start speaking from the script they think Schmoopies prefer. If a chump takes statements like that at face value, they can end up blindsided when FWs start stirring up shit and/or hoovering right at the moment chumps are moving on. FWs seem to be almost telepathic in sensing when that moment comes and will suddenly show up like bad pennies.
Cheating does not require that any specific human body part was shoved into any other person’s body holes.
Cheating is called cheating because two people agree on a set of rules and one of those people deceives the other to “win” in a way that unfairly makes the other “lose”.
Deception is cheating.
So, in my opinion, in a monogamous relationship, any form of sexual or romantic intimacy with someone else is cheating. Kissing included. Even hugging is included, if done romantically. Even talking is included, if done romantically without you knowing it’s going on.
Stealing or spending money from a shared bank account is cheating, whether in relationship, household, or business. So is running up secret debt.
Telling your partner you can’t drive them to their biopsy because you can’t get the day off work then taking the time off and visiting someone else is a form of cheating. Even if the visit is unromantic.
I vote, when you find yourself asking, “is it cheating?”, change the question.
Did that person intentionally deceive me so they could get their own way?
Did that person knowingly violate an agreement we made?
Don’t let cheaters split hairs to get out of accountability.
If he told you the romance was over, and it wasn’t, and he knew it, and he participated in talking about that with anyone who wasn’t you, his partner, he cheated.
If he kissed someone else knowing your shared agreement was that you don’t kiss other people in this relationship, he cheated.
If he told you he didn’t have romantic or sexual feelings for someone else and he actually did have those feelings, he cheated.
He sat with you, agreed on rules, then didn’t follow them. He cheated.
You don’t need him to agree to decide for yourself that this is true.
If you saw him pee on a tree, and he tried to say no, he wasn’t peeing on it, he was fertilizing it, you wouldn’t say to yourself “oh, he was trying to help the tree, I shouldn’t be so judgey”. You’d see easily that he was splitting hairs, and that he absolutely did pee on that tree.
He did what he did. That’s his to own. And it’s definitely bad enough that ending the relationship is completely justified. He broke core relationship agreements and didn’t feel horrified about it. That’s who he is. He cheats and feels ok about it.
Let him go pee on the Lisa tree.
It’s better to be the one that got away than the one he is stuck with.
LOVING THIS !! 🙂
Chump–
I have a feeling you got tangled up in a daisy chain of side pieces. CL is right and the situation in totally fishy. I suspect your ex has been waiting around like a hopeful side chick/mate poacher for Lisa to be available in the years she was hung up on one partner or several. If, from what you know of Lisa, Lisa didn’t appear to be in a long term relationship over the past four years, I have a feeling this means Lisa was also a side chick to some married or partnered person.
I think of it kind of like porn actors dating other porn actors because of common ground and common scars– mate poachers seem to orbit around and have “pit stop” affairs with other mate poachers in between hunting for for the chumps of their respective dreams. FW in my situation did this: I learned after D-Day about his history of going back and forth between having relationships with women (always engaged or with boyfriends) who were doubles of his toxic mommy and, after he’d get burned yet again, he’d seek out someone healthier whom he delusionally thought could “heal” him from the toxic experience (which is an impossible expectation and horribly unfair to the target of it). People like this wear masks and disguises pretending to be healthy when they’re with someone healthy but ultimately this gets exhausting and they start hunting down the more familiar fellow Cluster B types and the cycle begins again.
In short, be warned that he’ll probably be back. If Lisa could string your ex along all this time and was only interested in him when he was in what appeared to a long term commitment, this means she will likely dump your ex all over again and he’ll come sniffing back around to see if you’re still offering emotional labor and cake. Or maybe he’ll get bored and will circle back. Either way, gather your supporters around you and line up a lot of distracting, healing activities so that you’re less vulnerable to your ex’s potential hoovering. Think of yourself as Persephone in Hell and don’t take the pomegranate seeds from the hands of Death (your ex) when he shows up again. It will be tempting because you’ve just been traumatized and may not be feeling very hopeful for your future (typical symptom of PTSD– “learned helplessness,” “telescoping sense of life expectancy,” etc.) but that’s just an illusion caused by hanging around the lord of darkness and gloom. The feeling will pass. If you accept his hoovering, you’ll be stuck in the underworld. If you refuse, you’ll get to return to earth, sunshine, life and actual love. Tap into that strength and be well!
Oh he’ll be back. For sure block him on everything. And I would immediately and proactively send him an email telling him to never contact you or your family by any means. And to never come to your house or place or work. And if he gets through on a blocked or random number or email, immediately hang up or delete. DO NOT LISTEN TO ONE WORD OR ENGAGE FOR EVEN A SECOND.
Persephone in Hell!!! This is brilliant
The so called depression he had was him checking out of the relationship because he was involved with Lisa. Of course he was more than happy to have you bend over backwards doing stuff for him while he claimed to have mental health issues. I mean who can argue or take one to task on dismissive, selfish or checked out behavior when they are suffering from a mental healthy affliction? Dollars to donuts Lisa flipped out about the upcoming holiday and forced his hand. This guy is a turd, a weak one at that…good riddance.
Ah, cheaters’ depression drama as they pine for disordered randos– lol. I’m imagining some middle aged person doing an interpretive dance of woe like the scene from Big Lebowski. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLU_dAlyRz8
I can relate. I thought my FW was having a mid-life crisis … experiencing depression. Bullshit. I don’t believe in midlife crises anymore.
SAME!!!! I even thought that my FW was becoming a bit demented. Ugh. He accepted all of my chumpy empathy. I hate that I was in the dark and used. That’s the part that kills me even now, 3 1/2 years out.
My guess is Lisa was about to erupt. APs hate when you are about to travel especially somewhere nice. They have to face they’ve been feed many lies. AP sent anonymous cryptic messages when we were on FW April birthday trip to San Diego. He convinced me it was the other employee that was pissed because he had it out with her, blah blah. Little did I know AP had big ideas after joining him in Costa Rica 🇨🇷 at the end of his men’s trip for Valentines Day. When she saw on his phone we were going away in September, she took matters into her own hands and followed us to airport for my 60th birthday trip. She tried to hit him in the head in parking garage, he yelled for security. Lisa had enough and was going to cause a scene 🎬
He’s still with the psycho 33 years younger AP. They’re live an unhealthy 💉💊🧿 lifestyle. No contact with adult children, grands or his siblings
So depressing. There are people all over the world struggling valiantly against hardships they didn’t cause that deserve attention and concern– way more than callous, self-nuking douchebags.
My FW told our marriage counselor he had known his “friend” longer than me. That’s because her late husband (of 40 years) was his best friend and we had only been together 30 years.
It’s not just the titles or the order of the relationship. It’s the deceit and the entitlement.
Don’t be Plan B. Or maybe Plan C.
I’m considering “Deceit and Entitlement” (or D&E for short) as a new nickname for FW. 🤣
Star of his own Harlequin romance 😂 👍. Proud Confession of first magic kiss after friend/office whore told him how close they were 👍. Oh, and as with yesterday’s podcast, sad sausage mental health issues after I discovered the affair 👍(he was even offered time off from work because he was going through such an awful time). I was so worried about him, but I didn’t know that what looked like he might kill himself was about the Fab. OW possibly not leaving her H. / Not about the destruction to our marriage.
Because he was truly an amazing partner until the affair, sometimes I forget about all the similarities he has to the more well rounded Fuckwits.
I would love a list of the top 10 commonalities.
-ex.- Blaming the chump
– moving on with lightning speed with cheating partner
– sad sad sad sausage
– rewriting your relationship
– shameless OW/OM, proudly sharing twu wuv on social media for all to see
Etc
My FW did everything on your list.
Zip, 100% on the commonalities you listed.
– It’s my fault he lies all the time! It’s because he doesn’t feel safe with me! You mean I’m not allowed to be upset you didn’t do what you said you were going to do? Or that you’re fucking off to golf (and who knows what else) instead of working, leaving me to hold down the fort (home and small child) alone, even though that’s what I’m already doing most of the time anyways? And we barely see you?
– Oh I’m not my dad’s favorite, it’s so hard and it’s not fair. I got fired for forgery, that I could have refused to do and reported my boss to HR for requesting, but no, I did the illegal thing. Oh, and I had to spiral into a gambling addiction because my boss left me so stressed.
– Even though I told you I was 100% ok buying this house, I’m going to say a year later I never wanted to move. I’m going to say you never let me have friends over, even though the only time we entertained in the past year, all my friends were over.
– All the FB / IG crap (I don’t follow, but I’ve heard through the grapevine).
“Oh I’m not my dad’s favorite, it’s so hard and it’s not fair.”
Boo fucking hoo. I was the designated family scapegoat. I got over it. It’s called growing up. What a whiny little bitch.
Mine ex “had to lie” too. He was “scared” and “terrified” of me, and if he told the truth I would get upset because I “loved finding things to be upset about.” He said being upset was my “favorite thing to do.”
None of this matched reality at all, and being the chump I am, you can bet I spent years being introspective about it. Am I mean? Am I judgmental? How can I say things gentler and nicer? What tone should I have when he has lied to me?
About 15 years into the marriage I heard an accidental recording of my voice and I sounded like a baby. High pitched and soft and scared. It was jarring to me. Now that I’m divorced my natural flat voice is coming back. I didn’t even realize I was contorting my tone and language to placate him.
The kicker is, when I was doing all these conscious and unconscious things to please him – did he ever do a dang thing to please me? Of course not. It was always a 1 way street.
“I had to lie because I was afwaid of you!”… LOL.
One can only hope these cheater-pants try to spin those typical sad woeful tales of their own “fwagility” in the face of such overpowering chumps… while locked up in Rikers with gang lords and murderers. Go for it. See how that works out.
Also got the never wanting to buy the house crap and as a bonus ‘never wanted to get married.’ 🤣🤣🤣……..I guess he didn’t mind marriage so much because he married OW!
I got never wanted to get married, and the real kicker: I never wanted to have kids. While our very much planned for toddler was in the next room. That infuriated me. He had hoped to put off having kids until I was too old. The sheer cruelty of it all.
My FW:
I never wanted to get married
I didn’t like you when we met
I never wanted to buy this house
I never wanted to buy that van
I never wanted to move
It’s been a shitty 30 years
“I never wanted to buy this house…, I just said that because I gave up…” What a sad, sad sausage! I got so tired of the mindfucking games he played. Life is so much more peaceful these days!
I found out (years later) that my fw even tried to convince my daughter in law and son that he and the exit whore didn’t have sex until after we D’d) this was after he told daughter in law that he had also cheated on whore, and of course when he left me, he told me of his and exit whores first time in the back of his squad car. Of course no one believed him, but dang these guys are bat shit crazy.
It is like they need to clean the whore so everyone won’t know they are marrying a whore. Yeah, no one with two functioning brain cells to rub together is going to buy that.
“It is like they need to clean the whore so everyone won’t know they are marrying a whore. Yeah, no one with two functioning brain cells to rub together is going to buy that.”
HAHAHAHA
FW and OW didn’t “come out” until after we filed for divorce. They lied to everyone. They’d been “together” for over 4 years at that point. But the comments on their very junior high photo they posted on which they’d scrawled “we’re dating!” were all our friends saying things like “it’s about time!” “I knew it!” Meaning that all my “friends” knew and no one said anything to me, or even checked in on me. I also remember seeing someone of Facebook, who didn’t know them in real life, ask about how they met. And the sanitized story that OW replied with was hilarious. You’d never, ever know that he was married, or that I existed, or anything. Or that SHE was married. Just “I saw all his cool Lord of the Rings and movie stuff at work and asked him about it and we’ve been inseparable ever since!” And everyone was like “oh, if only I could have a romance like that. Y’all are SO CUTE.” Can’t let on that he’s a cheater and she’s a whore, oh no.
This is honestly one of the best case scenarios. You didn’t have a traumatic DDAY (finding my ex wifes texts between her AP while putting my children to bed) and he (possibly) dumped you and came clean before he risked your health cheating on you. The man did you a favor, now go NC and move on.
My ex left me for his female “friend.” When I asked for better boundaries when we were still together, I got the, “You don’t want me to have any friends!” defense. No, I don’t want that particular friendship to intrude on our marriage. “Oh, but I’m friends with her husband too, they’re having problems, I’m just trying to help.” It’s all bullshit.
Good news is I realized he had been a crappy husband, and at least he is someone else’s problem now. I still have to co-parent with crappy Ex, but as my daughter gets older that will involve less communication w/FW.
All this friend BS is so triggering. Early on in our mirage, FW went to a co-worker’s house. I told him I was uncomfortable with that, and he accused me of being crazy, too sensitive, and not trusting.
And I believed him 🤦🏻♀️.
This, btw, was the same co-worker who wore a sexy dress to a party, and I didn’t. He seemed disgusted with me and asked why I couldn’t dress more like her. FFS!!! (Btw, it was an informal party at someone’s house. No one but this woman–the host–was in a dress, let alone a sexy one.)
And that was in the early years of our mirage. I stayed with that man for 35 years. Went on to have 3 kids. He copped to only one affair. Now I wonder…
Mine copped to only one too, Spinach. However, I no longer wonder of there were more because I no longer give a shit. My marriage was a fraud either way.
Oh geez, were you married to my ex? I got the same exact story (except the friends with her husband – he was just trying to “help” her get out of her marriage). When he said “you’re just jealous and don’t want me to have any friends”, I replied “When, over the last 15 years, have I EVER gotten jealous of you having female friends?” and he had to admit the answer was “never”. I said “this one is different”.
My FW too whined “now I can’t can’t have friends!”
His “work wives.” Ugh.
That’s the thing about coming back here daily. The solidarity (unfortunately) of so many people with such identical experiences. You weren’t crazy, it wasn’t all your fault, all lot of other people have the same values and boundaries you do, you just happened to pair off with entitled FW’s that treated you horribly and came from the land of “rules for thee, but none for me.”
Dear CL and all the people in the comments, it’s Chump(?) here. Thank you so much for your insights , I am enjoying them immensely, together with a glass of white wine in the sun in Germany, because a friend took me on a holiday. I haven’t finished reading yet but have already gotten so many helpful realisations thanks to you. I’ve hung out with Lisa quite a lot and never had a bad feeling about her until about three months ago when she told me I had hit the jackpot with my boyfriend. I am reading different interpretations of what really happened, my own is that he suddenly became attractive again after she had a few failing flings. And that he has always felt for her. In the end, it does not matter, we are all agreeing on that. Thank you so much CL and all the commenters, your help is heartwarming!
Lisa was feeling out of sorts and lonely, so she zeroed in on your boyfriend. Lovely. This relationship won’t last so please be prepared to shut him down when he reaches out because he is now lonely and out of sorts. I think his next bout of “depression” may be legit:)
To me, the very fact that you have been an avid reader of this blog means you knew in the back of your mind that he fit the cheater mold perfectly. This has absolutely been going on the whole time. Stay the course of no contact like the impressive badass that you are.
Yup mine had a female “best friend.” They didnt screw but had a level of intimacy that I didnt like. She would have loved a physical affair, but he doesnt shit where he eats. Most of his affairs were emotional with coworker and his train wives. Who I didnt always know. He didnt want to ruin his perfect dad and husband image. He liked that people thought we had a good marriage and would dote on me in public to show off how great he is, dont you wish your husband was so great like me?
Anyways she caused problems in the marriage. When you are texting your best friend all day long telling them stuff and sharing things with them and not your wife, thats a problem. I would barely get an acknowledgement during the day. If I pressed it, he would send me a curt text about how how I am harassing him to say hello, he is busy working to support my ass and doesnt have time to text or call me.
When you are accused of jealousy, over said “best friend,” but you are ok with the other women they are friends with who you like over the years, thats a problem.
The best was he told me this best friend has no sex drive because she had a hysterectomy at a young age. Well turns out she just didnt want to have sex with her own husband. She was always bad mouthing him, we went out to dinner once or twice as a couple and she was mean and antagonistic towards her husband. I was shocked, and made a point to tell my FW at the time, that this is how she must be with anyone she us in a relationship with. She eventually got a divorce and was having sex with dudes and enjoying it and telling him all about it. Yeah really? Shes not interested in sex, OK, shes not sexual, right. Bunch of BS
Obviously Netherlands chump is being switched out. Hes hoping for you guys to switch roles. Now you are BF and she is GF. 4 years is long enough! Thank god you are not married and no kids.
My FW’s OW was just like that one, Chumpo. She didn’t seem to want sex with anyone she was in a relationship with. It was all about sleazy hookups. She banged FW only enough times to keep him hoping there would be more, then cut him off (just as she had her husband) once she was sure he was whipped enough to put up with it. I had a good laugh about how he couldn’t even get laid by his supposed mistress, the biggest whore in town. He wasn’t happy about that comment. 😁
I’ve said this many times but I hate that these FW’s always accuse the chump of jealousy when chumps are only taking issue with blatant disrespect.
That’s gaslighting 101 via the “its not what I did, it’s your reaction to it that’s the problem”.
All chumps need to spot and know this well oiled abuse tactic.
“Train wives” LOL. When I lived on the east coast and commuted into Manhattan from northern New Jersey, I had to flick off some men looking for these. One of them worked in the same field as me and when my boss found out I knew from this man from my commute, he tried to pimp me out to benefit his business. Nope and nope. One of the reasons I quit that job.
“When you are texting your best friend all day long telling them stuff and sharing things with them and not your wife, thats a problem. I would barely get an acknowledgement during the day. If I pressed it, he would send me a curt text about how how I am harassing him to say hello, he is busy working to support my ass and doesnt have time to text or call me.”
YUP. And then he’d say “we never talk anymore” and I pointed out repeatedly that every time I tried to talk to him about stuff, he’d give me one word answers. Turns out he had already talked about everything with his howorker and had nothing left for me. Except in my case he definitely had sex with her too.
Chump (?) that really isn’t a question, you know. Like all the stories you have read here and recognise all the signs of classic mindfuck: this is yours. I just never cease to be stunned by the repetition of FW behaviour. I have to tolerate contact with my FW due to financial reasons for a while yet, but how I would love to be able to just close the door and never see him again. Realise you are the lucky one!! Please go NC and celebrate your life!!
“I have this suspicion that Lisa was once his girlfriend (not a fling) and you (or someone else) came on the scene and she got the “let’s be friends” (let me feast on cake unfettered!) speech you just got. And she figured some fuckwit was better than no fuckwit, so she accepted the nebulous relationship status.”
This was my first thought. At some point Lisa will be friend-zoned once again when fuckboy finds somebody new.
My second thought is this is probably not even about Lisa right now at all, because Lisa is old news and that’s boring to a FW. Saying it’s Lisa just sounds less crazy than admitting it’s some rando he recently met. After all, who suddenly decides that somebody he was sick of and put in the friendzone is their one and only soul mate schmoopie after all? Yeah, that would be almost nobody.
FW’s story is 99% bullshit, IMO. The 1% that’s true is probably Lisa saying she’s in love with him. To which he replied; “Sorry, but I’m in love with Rando, my one and only twu wuv, the light of my life who brings music to my soul. That being said, of course I want us to stay frieeennnnds. You are sooooo important to me, Lisa.”
This guy’s pwecious feewings are a mile wide and an inch deep.
Great mightiness, Chump. What you should do is just keep up the good work of divesting yourself of this albatross. Go NC forever and leave him to the tender mercies of Lisa, Rando, the fates, STDs, mental breakdowns, and hopefully, buzzards and turkey vultures.
“Stick it up his bum hole,” that is what you can tell him the next time he contacts you..
Blow him a magical kiss goodbye.
Dear Chump,
This is pure triangulation. Your cheater — and yes he is a cheater as everyone here has pointed out — is enjoying being the centre of attention of several women and right now, he is all powerful, so on HIS say, he gets to swap out the roles at whim and playing all the women off against each other. Friend / girlfriend / who knows? Only he knows. All-seeing, omnipotent sexual GOD who deigns to let the women know their place when he, the King-of-all-he-surveys decides upon their fate. He is gaslighting you, and probably everyone else in his orbit. CL is right on the money!
Many of us here had cheaters like this.
You, once girlfriend but maybe you were actually the unknowing OW, with Lisa now bestie who was friendzoned when you came on the scene. Now you’re being friendzoned (your turn!) and he is literally using the excuse of Lisa to do it. He is swapping you back and forth like pieces on his personal chess board.
Time for you to play the Queens Gambit and clear that entire board with one fell swoop.
Checkmate his ass and go HARD no contact. Never ever speak one word to this guy again.
He will turn up, sad sausage, tell him you will call the police if he doesn’t leave immediately.
Shut that shit down.
He is NO ONE’S FRIEND.
He is a user, sorry to say.
And you are indeed a chump, no question (?) about it.
Hugs and enjoy that glass of wine in Germany! You have much to celebrate, you just lost a cheater.
Even if this guy is not a cheater (let’s pretend for a moment, although he most probably is), you now know FOR SURE (100%) that he is one thing – an ASSHOLE. Girl, he did you a favor. Really. You might not see it now, because you’re hurt, but you will. As far as I understand you didn’t live together, you don’t have kids, you’re not married, you dont’ share a debt.. just RUN and set yourself free from this FW’s mindfuckery. Because he will come back and he will try to pull you back into this triangle. Don’t be available for that. Block his ass. What he did, is SO low and you deserve so much better. I’m pretty sure that one year from now you’ll be happy (alone or with someone new) and just look back on how this guy was a valuable life lesson.
“Have you met Lisa? Is there some chance she thinks she’s his girlfriend and you’re the unwitting Other Woman/BFF? Perhaps she was going to out their longstanding relationship to you and that’s why the sudden Magic Kiss story?”
🙋♀️ I’ve been the one who had once naively thought I was a cheater’s exclusive girlfriend, and after extremely weird behavior on the cheater’s part, and putting his female friend Lisa above me, I decided to “meet Lisa” who he kept mentioning 24/7 and let the supposed “unwitting OW” Lisa know who I was. Well, that particular “Lisa” straight up lied to me (poorly) trying to convince me they were not involved and curtly asking me never to contact her again – thus totally confirming ALL of my suspicions. Turns out they’d been involved for YEARS while I was with him, and she even moved her children for him. I went no contact with the cheater’s icky triangle immediately. Bye, bye fuckwits and their enablers!
Weaponizing faux “depression” to keep 2 women PickMe dancing is so sick. Well done getting away, and finding Chump Nation. Block and delete him everywhere so he won’t be able to Hoover you back in someday. He is NOT a prize and both of you women deserve so much better. 💖
My ex-h also left me for his “best friend”. I didn’t even know he was friends with her, let alone BEST friends. Now they’ve elevated their status to soul mates which is pretty funny considering they are both soulless vampires.