He Introduced the Kids to the Other Woman on Video Call
It’s been two years since their breakup, and in a surprise move, her ex just introduced the kids to the other woman by video chat.
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Dear Chump Lady,
My (now ex) husband of 12.5 years left me and our two young daughters on Christmas Day two years ago.
He had an affair with a coworker. And he is still with her now, 21 months later.
He has never introduced our children to her or her five-year-old daughter, yet caught me completely off guard this week, and video called our children while he was with them. My 9 year old showed the girlfriend’s daughter around her and my 5 year olds’ bedrooms, during the call.
I was so affected by this I shut myself in my bathroom and had to call my best friend to steady myself.
It felt like a complete violation.
This woman seeing inside our private sanctuary, that we have turned into a special home that’s just for us three, since he coldly discarded us. I’ve done so much repair work. Like, I went out and got a job after years being a stay-at-home Mum, stood my ground in a lengthy and draining divorce process, and came away with a pretty good deal despite ex’s best efforts. I learnt how to do so many things by myself I thought I couldn’t possibly do because my husband used to do them, got a new partner, made some amazing new friends, reassured and loved my amazing daughters through confusion, heartbreak and abandonment.
I’d been feeling so strong, but recently he’s done so many awful things to try and break me (he’s a covert narcissist and controlling), that I can feel my mental health starting to dip.
When will it stop feeling like this?
Do you have any tips for dealing with these derailing incidents?
Thank you for all your work in this area. It has seen me through many a dark day.
Yours,
Where’s Karma?
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Dear Where’s Karma,
To your first question and screen name, I don’t know where Karma is. Lost under the sofa cushions or caught in a lint trap somewhere I guess. We’ll have to muddle through without justice, meanwhile.
So, take the reins.
Your house, your rules. I don’t know what your child custody agreement says about introductions to Schmoopies. Some have provisions about sleepovers or timelines, but a) these things are nearly impossible to enforce and b) after two years, I doubt the courts care. But if, by chance, he is in some violation of your order — document it.
Does he live with his coworker? Have the kids ever been to his home? Does your custody decree outline what happens in these situations? This blog is replete with the futility of policing what your ex does with affair partners after the divorce. She’s no longer the Other Woman, she’s his girlfriend. You don’t control that, but you do control YOU.
A man who leaves his family on Christmas Day is not a person who gives one flip about your feelings.
He broadsided you. So, now you set the terms of future engagement. “Kids, all video calls with dad stay in the basement. Period. This is not negotiable.” Your laptop, your rules.
You don’t need to explain or defend. These are young children, you are their mother. Use your authority.
You don’t need to explain or defend to your ex either. Is this video call thing codified in a decree, or is it at your pleasure? If it’s a courtesy you are extending to a FW, stop extending the courtesy. Oh hey, the internet is out. Whatever. If visitation by video is spelled out, there’s nothing in there that says the video needs to move about the house. If the call is every Sunday at noon, be at the laser tag dome or somewhere else. “Oh hey Dad, gotta go!” Let him talk over the screaming arcade sounds.
That sounds very petty, Tracy.
Maybe it is, but my point is, you don’t have to play his games.
Have boundaries with FWs.
If it upsets you to have him see your space, it’s up to you to enforce that boundary with yourself and the kids. In time, it might not be so upsetting, but maybe it will be. Just don’t violate a court order.
I never, ever wanted my son’s father in my home. I relaxed that boundary a couple times and deeply regretted it. And this was like a solid decade-plus after the divorce. I remember that creep standing in my backyard, and in the five minutes he was waiting for kid to appear, HE WAS PICKING PEARS OFF MY TREE. Just helping himself. Like he fucking lived there.
I’m still incensed.
I understand exactly why you’re upset. This FW traumatized you, he inflicted maximum cruelty by leaving on Christmas. You were physically, emotionally, and economically vulnerable to him, and you worked very hard to rebuild your life. That’s probably exactly why he’s ramping up his nonsense. New boyfriend? New job? How dare you exist without him. Let’s kick that pick me dance apparatus into gear and enlist the children!
It’s not the kids fault they’re in the middle. Kids would want to show any kid their bedroom. Don’t be upset with them for that. Just calmly state that future calls are not in their bedroom. Period.
Your ex can only triangulate if you let yourself be a hypotenuse.
So, going forward, you control how calls happen in YOUR home. And you’re also going to reframe the introduction to Schmoopie. Yes, this woman conspired in your abuse by being a mistress. But she also won a “controlling, covert narcissist” in your words. He isn’t getting a character transplant.
Consider for a moment that she probably doesn’t want to see the inside of your home either. But she’s with the Puppet Master there trying to make you both feel off balance, playing compare and contrast.
She’s stuck with that creep and that’s her problem. THAT is her karma. You’re crushing the new life, and she’s with a cold-hearted freak who’d leave his children on Christmas. Nothing to envy here.
When you feel derailed, remember, you’re the stronger, better, saner person. You win. Sure, he can try and nip at your ankles, but he lives at a REMOVE from you. You’re the sane parent and the primary influence in your children’s lives. He’s a poltergeist. A stupid ghost from the past who wants to upset your domestic tranquility.
Exorcise him. Your house, your rules.
I hope that “Where’s Karma” can find a balance here.
I absolutely “get” the need to protect yourself (and the sanctuary that you have built for yourself and your kids) from boundary stomping Exes and their APs, but you should do so in a manner that is sensitive and that your kids understand. If for nothing else, your children will likely see their rooms as “their space” rather than “yours” and will have seen what they did as sharing it with another child (whose reality had been torn apart by their parent’s actions) and will not have thought too deeply about your feelings. For what it’s worth, a rule that sees video calls to their father conducted from the basement (as CL suggests) or perhaps their rooms would be entirely reasonable.
LFTT
PS – As regards imposing boundaries on Exes, Ex-Mrs LFTT’s tendency to attempt to “boundary stomp” at my house when picking our kids up actually upset our kids as much as it did me. The youngest (now 21 and at University, but lives with me during Holidays) has developed a couple of “that sh*t don’t fly here” strategies. If she’s seeing her mother, she will arrange to meet her away from the house or, if her mother comes to the house, she will be out of the door before her mother has even parked her car …. either way, Ex-Mrs LFFT doesn’t even make it through the door.
Hopefully the video tour is only childhhod innocence as LFTT suggests. I think kids do tend to “show and tell” when another child is in their presence, just not something we would do as adults meeting for the first time online.
There may be a more nefarious reason for this “tour,” particularly if it was subtly or overtly prompted by the ex or his girlfriend. Did the other five year old reciprocate by giving a tour of her bedroom? Since it appears the kids have never met, I wonder if this was spying with the intent to demand toys, electronics and other items that could be seen on the video call. I’d be very suspicious if cheater asks either daughter to bring any possessions during visits with him. They may be “lost” and handed over to the other 5 year old. Cheater ex may tell your daughters that they “should” bring something that the other girl saw because it would be kind, fun, or the right thing to do. And somehow your daughters would never get it back.
I’m cynical because my friends deal with parents who find an excuse to come in, then “shop” at their bio kids’ homes in order to get the goodies for their own homes or someone else.
Tell your kids that as a general rule, they should not give people tours of their rooms because they never know who else is watching or recording, and this space is just for your family. In case this happens again, have a set place for video calls–you can call it a stage–and stay nearby so you can overhear the conversation.
And if you have a security system, teach them not to describe or show it.
Where’s Karma, you already gave us a great tip for dealing with these derailing incidents: You stepped away, called your best friend, and calmed yourself in privacy.
You can find similar distractions by stepping outside for a minute, doing some fast exercises, or listening to a favorite song, Chump Nation may have some mantras or phrases you can recite to keep your cool.
There’s also a chance Schmoops wanted to see the inside of the house for the same reason many mate poachers push to get into the chump’s space: as a window shopping venture to see what assets and objects will one day be theirs.
If you read some of the research on “mate poacher” and the dark triad, the above scenario wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities. But, as my very canny attorney friend would likely warn, if you add minor kids to the mix, the scheming can get even darker. For instance, one reason sane parents shouldn’t let people with hostile agendas like this into their homes even virtually is because of the risk the latter aren’t just shopping but snooping to see if any object or condition in the house could– no matter how far-fetched– be reported as a “danger to children.”
So it’s possible schmoopie in this case may have demanded the video intro to the children and to see the house as a first step in her perseverative campaign to get exFW to amend the court settlement and take full custody of the kids so that schmoopie gets more of his assets, including whatever he’s currently paying for child support.
I’m not surprised it felt like a violation! FW’s a piece of work doing intros in your space and has NO business forcing this on your time. But we know they either don’t care or are so divorced from human feeling that he’ll probably push the boundaries again. I think @chumplady’s advice is spot on – your home is your safe space and setting the rules for online engagement is up to you. I’m pretty sure you don’t really want your daughters, however innocently, showing the interior of your home to outsiders, and that is what FW’s fake family are. No explanation, to telling off, but these are our rules for facetiming/zooming.
As for those two creeps, they are each other’s Karma and I’m sorry for the little girl growing up with them.
You are thriving now minus one FW! He may trigger you, but you held it together, sought support and space. It will get easier. 💪
Unfortunately, you cannot control how and when they introduce them most of the time. Mine introduced him before she filed. Boundaries are your friend; they can only call or take a call from her in a room away from any space I deem private, and she cannot enter my house. I will also only limit the phone to calls, nothing else, my boys do not get to see my private life. And when the boys wanted to show me around their mother’s house, I declined and said that was their private space. Explain to them how privacy works and why you are doing what you are doing, and they will understand.
These people have boundary issues, so you will have to get use to asserting them and feeling okay with this. Just recently, they invited me to stay at their house to care for our son who just had surgery, and I declined, state why, and offered alternatives and relaxed some boundaries in other areas of communication.
It’s been over 40 years since I divorced my kids dad. 40+ years! He still tries to overstep the bounds to turn the screw/knife.
There’s grandchildren, so I deal with that situation. We’re at Thanksgiving meals, band concerts, occasional soccer/track meets. One daughter is disabled and lives in Assisted Living.
He manages to find something that is intrusive to both me and his wife of 30 years.
HIM: “Remember that xxx professor from history class? He killed himself.”
ME: I keep my face without expression saying, “no”.
HIM: “(pushing it more) Surely you do? You went to his house a lot.”
ME: “No” His wife is standing there smiling at his memories of college year. Meanwhile he wants to re-engage and remind me of an old-old argument of being female and attending parties at a male prof’s house.
Another:
HIM: “(laughing) So how much did it cost you when granddaughter-Sally quit college without finishing the semester. Bet you weren’t happy.”
ME: (turned away and started another conversation with daughter).
NOTE: It’s his granddaughter too — he did not contribute to any of her expenses — had to raise her when her mother became disabled.
Another:
HIM: “(his wife is sitting nearby) Don’t you just love the Bosch series? I like how the books were adapted.”
ME: (wondering how he possible knew I read/watched the Bosch series). What Bosch series?”
Edited: When said granddaughter entered college, I took the opportunity to move closer to my non-disabled daughter and her family. Five minutes away. He actually assumed that I would show the place to him and his wife. The first time I vaguely said it wasn’t ready for visitors — what a mistake. He turned to his wife and said I was always challenged keeping a house clean. Now I ignore the question. One time he turned to 10-yo grandchild to ask what they thought about my house.
This is both unbelieveable and yet…so believeable. I keep telling myself that I just have to make it a few more years until the youngest is 18 then I can cut ALL ties with this buffoon. And then I read your post, 40 years later and he is still FWitting. It’s endless! (Though I am sure that once your kids were adults it at least is minimal fwittery that you are exposed to)
You’ve been divorced 40+ years and he’s still pulling this noise? The best(?) possibility is, he wants his current wife (of 30 years!) to pick-me dance. Is she being worn down to a nubbin?
Dear Lord it’s like he’s totally obsessed with you. What a creepy thing to have to deal with. I’m always concerned that the nasty little passive aggressive utterances, while seemingly petty on the surface, are sometimes “overflow” from secret violent murder fantasies.
i think you have to set and maintain boundaries that work for you. i’m fortunate to have adult kids, so i have not seen X for five years, beyond a flash sighting in a car. occasional contact is via email. recently, the kids and i moved cities, and they do not see X often.
when i lived in the same city, i asked that he not come to the house at all, including a pick-up and drop-off, because i found the sound of his car triggering. this surprised me, but i went with it. i think it’s important to respond to your own feelings, and not live by a prescribed set of rules re: contact. the kids understood this request. besides, they drive and can make their way to X’s house.
i do not anticipate seeing X again in a personal environment. maybe graduation or a wedding? i don’t know, i’m not thinking about it. i would never invite him into my home as it is my refuge, and i don’t need the negative energy–
#damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
To an outsider reading the comments, it may sound like paranoia. Unfortunately, its not. You realize you cant give these people the benefit of the doubt dealing with them. They always have nefarious motives. As nice loving normals we see the world through our rose colored glasses, and assign benign motives to their behaviors. But once you have dealt with the disordered, and cheaters and their paramours are disordered, you need to trust your gut and suspicions. They will keep you safe. People need to earn our trust, we shouldn’t be giving it away. Yeah, I may seem a bit paranoid now, but Im alot happier not having blind trust in people.
“To an outsider reading the comments, it may sound like paranoia. Unfortunately, its not.”
Reason #557 why CN/CL is so valuable. Yes, to an outsider it looks paranoid. But there are tales upon tales here of other Chumps dealing with the most outlandish scenarios. Better safe than sorry.
My contribution: I installed securiy cameras. He does not know that. He needed to pick something up on an agreed upon day/time. I left said items in my enclosed porch. I left the house before he came because I thought it would help my anxiety. (Spoiler alert: Dear Reaader, it most certainly did not help with my anxiety)
I watched the live feed of him arriving. My intention was to watch so I knew when it was “safe” to return. What I saw? Him talking to himself about me, calling me an idiot because the items he asked for would not fit in his car. He then looked for the spare key where we’d always kept it. I’d moved it and hid it pretty well, but I watched in horror as he paced screaming “Fuck!!” and looked everywhere for a key. He also futzed a bit with a window. He did give up after 20 minutes of this. And I will never know for sure if he would have used the key had he found it. Nor what exactly he would have done once inside. But I know this, if he found out I installed security cameras he would 100% call me paranoid, yet, look what the cameras caught. (And obviously a mom living at home alone with her kids is reason enough for cameras, but I would be lying if I said that they were not 98% installed out of fear of him)
FW maintained the codes to various systems of the home even when the decree said to turn them over. Basically tried to lie to me and maintain ability to spy on us. I had to reset everything on my own.
As my estate attorney observed, he is a man who’s already demonstrated dishonesty through cheating and theft of marital assets.
It’s only prudent to never let such a snake into our homes or safe spaces.
Guard your peace and set the rules.
This is pretty typical – they fucked it up but still want to call the shots and arrange things to suit themselves.
Nope- not in YOUR house.
Face to face in person visits far away from you and your house or nothing.
It might seem they may have ‘won ‘ the kids but at the moment she’s a novelty- kids figure things out as they get older.
Pee on your territory and enforce your boundaries.
Thank you so much!
This just in: On Saturday he called me to tell me she is pregnant. He then told me he was going to tell our daughters. I asked ‘don’t you think they should meet her before you tell them that’?
His response: ‘They’ve met her on a video call’.
You couldn’t make this s*it up!
I am so sorry, even in the best circumstances, a new baby with a woman that isn’t their mom might be a bit hard to handle, but with a woman they met once on a video chat? What is the RUSH? Can’t he prioritize the kids and ease them into this? Is the baby crowing right this minute??? Geeez.
My FW is no longer with AP. He has a new non-AP gf. Said gf has a toddler. My youngest found out and was super upset by it. I think she is afraid of being replaced, which is an understandable feeling for a kid. And this toddler isn’t her dad’s kid. For your ex to be like “hey kids, pull up your iPad and meet my gf” and then immediately after anounce she’s having his baby? It’s awful.
It isn’t fair but you will be the sane parent and despite his best attempts, your kids will be fine. But ooof…it is not easy dealing with these lumatics.
Ugh. God. So sorry. Your girls will be okay with you as the sane parent.
That’s probably why he introduced them to the 5 year old, so she could pave the way. This looks like image management, prepping for when the baby is born and they want all the kids together for photos to show the world they’re a great blended family, when in truth they aren’t.
Expect him to start pushing how great it will be to have a baby sibling. He may even expect the 9 year old to keep the 5s busy/supervised, and expect babysitting in a few years.
No matter how he spins it, the kids may be very hurt that the father who abandoned them is present for his new family and is even creating another kid. It might help to have a family therapist.
Isn’t it gross how these FW fathers suddenly find a use for the older daughter(s) he abandoned by cheating/divorce, once any caregiving or babysitting work is thrust onto him? He’s planning to use the older girls to babysit the AP 5 year old and coming baby.
Funnily enough last night my 9 year old came out with ‘I’m really happy about it. I want another sister. Or a brother.’ I know this is exactly what he has brainwashed her with.
She then said ‘Why would I be sad about it?’ I said ‘Who said anything about being sad’?
My 9 year old has already had counselling and I’m keeping an eye on her. I recently set my 5 year old up with counselling – which is fortuitous in light of this recent bombshell!
Gosh poor you what a horrid situation.
I’m wondering if maybe she looked a bit sad when she heard the news, realising what it meant for her and her sister (Dad has replaced us as well as Mum), and they told her she didn’t need to be sad? Her emotions could be conflicted, happy as it’s something she wanted (another sibling), but sad that it’s not how she would have wanted it to be. Maybe it’s worth a conversation to say “hey, you might feel happy and sad about this, and that’s OK.”?
Truly sounds like you have done amazing at getting yourself and your girls on track after a callous and devastating exit. Some awesome advice here re boundaries. Truly confident you will dust yourself off and get back on track again.
Go well x
Did she answer the question about who said something about being sad? That does sound like brainwashing or projection from dad. He may realize that he’s going to replace your kids in his affections, and devote his time, attention and financial resources to his new baby.
Your kids may actually be better off if he does focus on the baby and his new family. This guy left his kids on Christmas. I can’t imagine he’s any good as a parent.
Start figuring out now what to expect when they’re expecting. For example, they may want (image management again) to have your daughters at the baby shower, at the hospital to welcome the new baby, etc. They may decide to get married. Decide now how to handle any possibilities. Like asking to have the five year old stay with you because she’s “family” and you 5’s new friend.
You’ve managed so well up to now, I’m sure you can handle the latest bumps.
Oh this post was priceless Tracy!! I CRACKED UP at your Ex picking pears off your tree!!!!!!! Ok my ex stood behind me in the church santuary I was visiting to watch my grandchildren singing and handed my DIL a bag of apples from my former house trees!!! This is after 3 years, 3 years of NO CONTACT!!! It looks like things are going South with young wife but whatever..STILL a bag of apples??? My DIL handed them to our pastors wife and she was done with them. OK back to karma…there is none really EXCEPT the good news ALWAYS and we CAN call this our GOOD KARMA is that this CREEP IS NOT IN YOUR HOUSE living with you, torturing you with his tunes for the pick me dance. Having sex with anything and coming home to lay in bed WITH YOU!! There are those on this very site doing that very thing, bless their hearts..and trying to figure it out but NOT YOU. My Ex tried the foot in the door, bullying and breaking boundaries. That video call was a very awful Boundary breach. Shore that wall up and do what Tracy says. It cannot happen again if you set YOUR rules. It’s the same if he knocks on your back door and your daughter let’s him and his coworker and kids into your kitchen, is that OK? Get 💪 set new rules and each Boundary break is another sign that your Ex thinks he owns you still. Shore it up and you make your own good Karma!!
Another idea for people is you can use a filter and blur the background on video calls. They can only see the person not surroundings.
This.
It’s good to teach kids this stuff as basic digital safety for everyone.
Like “Our homes are places where we all let down our guard. We might leave underwear out, medications, documents with our personal information on them like grades or social security numbers. Other people who live there may not be dressed for public and you may show them by accident. So for video calls with anyone who doesn’t live here, we never walk around. We take them at X or Y place with the background blurred.”
We set up little “offices” with a wireless charging phone mount and say they can only turn on the video when the phone is there. They can go and get toys/books to show and talk about if they like, but phone stays mounted and facing a neutral background.
Ugh.
This reminds me of the time that my FW came to do a custody pickup at my new house.
I left my front door open and screen door closed, the way you do when you’re expecting company, assuming that any normal human being will knock and wait for you to answer. We had always knocked and waited during custody pickups previously.
Instead, FW opened the screen door, barged into my house, and took a little silent, seething tour of my home. It was so weird. I thought FW might be looking for evidence that I had a new partner (an absolutely wild thing to be mad about given the way the relationship ended), but it might have just been a “you’re not the boss of me” move.
FW is absolutely furious with me for buying a house for me and my child to live in instead of freezing to death in a car (I suppose).
The door stays locked now.
“Instead, FW opened the screen door, barged into my house, and took a little silent, seething tour of my home. It was so weird. I thought FW might be looking for evidence that I had a new partner (an absolutely wild thing to be mad about given the way the relationship ended), but it might have just been a “you’re not the boss of me” move.”
Mine used to do this. Early on there were no boundaries aty all, so he would come inside for pick up/drop off. But we had pets. So he would wander around the whole house to see the pets, and comment on any and all changes I made. It was not obviously aggressive, but I was afraid od him so what it did was make me reluctant to change things for fear that he would notice and be angry. It was all so dumb “oh, you bought a new toaster?” all subtle things like that.
This just brought back a memory I had totally forgotten. It was towards the end of our divorce in 2017. I had moved into a house we were trying to sell, and he was living with HoWorker while pretending to live at our cottage. It was definitely my house and my space. My son was living with me and had gotten up very early to go on a camping trip with friends in August, right before they all left for college as 18-year-olds. I laid in bed thinking I should get up and relock the door, but it was very early, and I just rolled over. My bedroom is on the ground floor, very near the front door. Anyway, a little bit later, my soon-to-be-Ex opened the door to put a bag of items for my kids inside. It was like he was waiting for my son to leave and knew the door would be unlocked. I took it was a sign of power and that he enjoyed invading my space. As we were not yet divorced and his name was on the deed, there wasn’t much I could do. I didn’t mention it to him because I felt that’s exactly what he wanted me to do.
Creepy when I think back on it.
I learned to keep my door locked after my FW opened the door. Not just a screen door, a firmly shut front door. He stuck his head inside and called for the kids he was there to pick up. That’s the one and only time he’s violated my sacred space. That door is ALWAYS locked now. Thankfully, my kids are grown and we are all no-contact with the sperm donor.