How Did You Handle Flying Monkeys?
The Friday Challenge is flying monkeys. Did your FW have any enablers or co-conspirators in their abuse? How did you handle it?
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Hi Chump Lady,
I love your Friday Challenges so I have an idea for one. This happened years ago to a friend.
She was a lovely woman, smart, capable and lively, Unfortunately, she was married to a serious serial cheater in power. Her FW was the chief of police in their town with numerous social connections, including being friends with her OBGYN. When my friend started getting strange symptoms ‘down there’, instead of telling her the truth about her STDs, the OBGYN — out of friendship with the cheater — explained it away as something else and tried to treat the infections he could.
This left my friend unaware.
Not only what had gone on, but what continued to go on and how not knowing would eventually cost her. STDs like syphilis and gonorrhea could be treated, but she was never given a warning about the HPV and chlamydia.
The HPV took off roaring and became cancerous, eventually costing her the complete removal of all her external female parts. Yep, on top of the cancerous cervix and hysterectomy, they had to surgically remove everything down there. Everything. All because of a toxic friendship between the FW and the woman’s own doctor. This is the lethal version of why covering for a cheater is absolutely wrong.
The Challenge:
What horrors did flying monkeys inflict on innocent Chumps for the sake of not taking sides, or thinking it was better not to be involved, etc?
For the record, my friend won a massive lawsuit against the doctor and FW and sizable spousal support for life. The doctor lost his license and the FW lost his job.
Amidst the hell of all this, my friend tried to stay calm. Later she admitted that the worst thing she did as retribution was to pee in every bottle of her FW’s treasured and expensive bottles of aged scotch.
HunnyBadger
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Dear HunnyBadger,
That’s a horrific story and my mind went first to lawsuit. So I’m so glad your friend sued and won. Why on earth would an OBGYN risk a woman’s health — a professional who understands those risks — to save his “friend” from the discomfort of being outed as a cheater? I cannot pretend to untangle that skein. I guess flying monkeys enjoy a good conspiracy.
CN, if you haven’t heard the term before, a flying monkey is someone who orbits a narcissist as a kind of minion. Like the flying monkeys who do the bidding of the Wicked Witch of the West. Your monkey might be the brother in law who never told you he met your husband’s affair partner. Or the friend who tries relays information to your ex when you’re trying to be no contact. Ad nauseam.
Got any flying monkeys stories you’d like to report? How did you handle it? TGIF!
“For the record, my friend won a massive lawsuit against the doctor and FW and sizable spousal support for life. The doctor lost his license and the FW lost his job.”
I literally sighed with relief. I’m so glad she went after them. But still so horrific about her health.
The only flying monkeys I dealt with were FW’s parents. But they really tried to impression manage the entire family. FW’s mom is a real narcissist — super self serving and all about the secret keeping to save face. She lost her shit when I openly let everyone know why we were divorcing (her asshat son left me and his 9 year old to move in with his coworker and her 2 boys). She made up an entire narrative that I was the problem and that FW was kicked out of the house and his sweet coworker friend let him stay over… and they fell in love. I really didn’t know any of that until about 2 years after DDay and I was already divorced. That’s when one of the daughters-in-law reached out to me and wanted the truth. FW’s idiot parents could say whatever they wanted, but every time there were family gatherings, the family was seeing my son super sad and being badly treated by FW and AP. And AP isn’t exactly likable. Apparently she screamed at my son repeatedly in front of family. So I just stayed in my lane and ignored the crazy (only focusing on my son’s welfare)… and a couple of years later, family members reached out and got the truth from me.
Thankfully most flying monkeys are just lying idiots. The OBGYN flying monkey story will give me nightmares forever though.
What a sweet story your exMIL concocted! Mean, evil MichelleShocked kicks out poor, sad sausage FW, and he just happens to fall in love immediately. So sweet. A romance for the ages, I’m sure.
I’m sorry your son is caught in the crossfire. I’m glad he has you.
In the early days after Ex-Mrs LFTT’s cheating (and lies, and manipulations and theft) were discovered, my MIL showed “flying monkey” tendencies despite being a Chump herself. She was adamant that I should have ignored Ex-Mrs LFTT’s behaviour and that “it would all blow over eventually.” I told her that this wasn’t happening and that if she were to continue to parrot her daughter’s lies, then it would be her relationship with our children (she adores them) that would be damaged.
Fast forward to now, nearly 10 years later. MIL is firmly on “Team LFTT” and has been for ages; she knows that I have the kids’ interests at heart (they stayed with me after the divorce) and that it has been me that has maintained their relationship with her since Ex-Mrs LFTT left to be with her AP.
Youngest daughter (now 20) and I are taking MIL out to lunch next weekend.
LFTT
Happy to hear exMIL recovered from her momentary ethical stroke and got back on her OWN side, not just yours. She’ll likely live longer.
My OBGYN wasn’t friends with my FW, but he did assist him. I got HPV, he never told me it was a sexually transmitted disease. Instead, he told me not to whine about the cauterization of my cervix because it was my own fault. He could tell I was promiscuous. When I cried, he slapped my thigh. I didn’t tell anyone about that for many, many years.
As a physician I am appalled. That POS needs to be reported. I don’t care how many years ago it was
Since the blatant sexual harassment accompanied the slap, I think it’s fair to call what you experienced sexual assault. There’s a special hell for types like that.
I hope you reported him to the medical board. That’s way way way out of line. I’m not sure if there’s a time limitation but OMG.
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
That should never ever have happened. I’m sorry it did, and that you felt you had to hide it for so many years. You are not the one who should feel shame over this.
Oh my god I’m so sorry that happened to you!
I had a much milder version of that- I was living in France and had an infection I thought was yeast but it wouldn’t go away. I had a swab and the doctor (a British woman) explained that I had an infection that was “passed back and forth between husband and wife.” She gave me a prescription for both me and the fuckwit. Because I was new to French culture and their systems, and I was a bit confused, I just took the meds and didn’t ask too many questions. The fuckwit just shrugged and took them too. Years later after DDay, I looked at my old medical records from the time we lived in France and I saw the lab results. I did some Googling of the French terms and lo and behold- it was trichomoniasis. Later I found out the FW was frequenting prostitutes while I was home with our baby – in a foreign country I’d moved to for his work 🙄
As for flying monkeys- his best friend knew about his penchant for hookers, sex clubs and randos. He and his wife and kids were close to us. When it all imploded neither he nor his wife supported me and I never heard from them again. His wife didn’t know, but she didn’t want to be involved. My poor daughter lost what she thought were her aunty and uncle and she loved their kids so much. It’s harder for her than me, but it’s pretty awful knowing he sat in my home with our family, knowing what the FW was up to. Flying monkeys suck too, and I’m not sure what they get out of protecting FWs.
That kind of social fallout really is harder on kids. Swiss bitches– not to mention APs– never cop to how they’re participating in the abuse of children just like cheaters never acknowledge what children pay. You certainly never hear any mention of things like this by cheater apologists.
Holy Mother of God. 😶 These pages give me so much to remind myself “it could have been worse.” But her retribution reminds me of this quote:
“It’s a sad and terrible thing that high-born folk really have thought that the servants would be totally fooled if spirits were put into decanters that were cunningly labelled backwards. And also throughout history the more politically conscious butler has taken it on trust, and with rather more justification, that his employers will not notice if the whisky is topped up with eniru.”
― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
Anybody know what eniru is? Can’t find anything but a musical group by that name. I like Terry Pratchett, but haven’t read that book. Maybe it’s in there?
I read/watch Hogfather nearly every holiday season. Highly recommend, and Susan is an awesome character. 🙂
It’s “urine” spelled backwards.
That is terrifying. I’m so glad she won a lawsuit, though I’ll stop short of saying that justice was served. It’s all so grossly unjust.
I don’t handle flying monkeys well. I don’t understand intentionally hurting someone, even if FW told them all kinds of lies about how horrible I am.
This week, I had to drop kiddo off at FW’s church for VBS. I usually drop him off at FW’s house for him to take, but we were running late because of traffic, so I took him straight to church. While there were a couple folks who seemed genuinely happy to see me after several years, the rest made VERY clear that I was not welcome. It was so cold in there I wished I’d brought a winter jacket. It was that movie scene where you walk into a room and all the conversation screeches to a halt. The pastors wife said “Hiiiiiiiii” in a mocking tone and literally turned her back and walked away.
I said goodbye to kiddo and went on my way. The whole scene was maybe 3 minutes, tops. It was 2 days ago and I’m still having a hard time shaking it.
I also keep wondering what the neutral parties in the room were thinking. The ones that joined the church since everything went down. They don’t know me or my story, and a general glance around showed a few confused faces. I know I can’t, but I just want to win them to my side. Don’t hate me. Don’t perpetuate the abuse of someone you don’t know on the word of a FW. You don’t even have to like me, just don’t hate me…
Unicorn, I have a lot of church hurt too. The house of worship where I’ve raised my children have re-embraced the AP. She was a friend of mine, still “dating” my ex. The community I expected to buoy me during my family’s crisis went dead silent on me. It’s another level of betrayal. I’m so sorry.
Has anybody ever had a good experience in a church? I mean, with personal relationships? I’ve enjoyed some great pulpit work, but otherwise…not. I came to faith through personal experience and showed up at church SO excited to “join the family.” Never happened. I tried here and there, finally gave up. Not my faith, just “the church.”
I like my church. Recently my exMIL (married 36 years) passed away and I confessed that I am so sorry that I do not have one good thing to say or think about her. The priest gave me a penance of one Our Father and emphasized “deliver us from evil”. Amen.
Shit. I’m sorry. I know that feeling. I’m glad you’re here.
They need to take a closer look at that Bible, right? It’s just baffling — in a place of worship!
Sorry that happened to you.
I don’t think you mean it this way, but this feels really harsh.
Of course I’m concerned, but I don’t have a choice about whether or not my son attends. Specific things are written into the agreement. They apply to both spiritual spaces, FWs and mine. The courts don’t see it as a cult, and are hesitant to restrict religious practices.
Cheating is abuse. The vast majority of us with children have to leave our child with their father part time because the courts don’t see it as abuse.
Maybe next time it could be assumed that chump parents care about the welfare of their children and have to follow the parenting plan instead of assuming they don’t.
BDU, you were clear.
I guess my flying monkeys were eX’s business partners who would have observed eX’s behavior on all the work trips they did for decades. After D-day I called a few of the main ones to ask them what they know about eX’s ‘social’ and ‘money’ behavior when out on location. They played completely dumb of course. Because they are his friends and they would not want to betray him, right? No matter that their friend (my eX) betrayed his wife of 3+ decades.
You could say a subset of Flying Monkeys is the Japanese proverbial “Three wise monkeys”, but in this case the monkeys are not acting as such from true wisdom (for good) but out of unjustly pretending to be ignorant for the sake of playing dumb to cover up a high moral crime to help out their lowlife friend.
This story is so messed up. I’m glad that justice was served, but I also feel that those guys deserve some jail time as well.
My story is very mundane. I am losing my best friend from college because he is married to FW’s best friend from high school – let’s call her “Sarah.” I know that Sarah knew about FW’s shenanigans for years before I did. After the first D-day, I saw old emails between Sarah and FW from years earlier, discussing the events. From those emails, I know that Sarah supported FW’s feelings and said nothing to me. Sarah does not know that I know that she knew (yeah, I know, sorry). And, obviously, I have said nothing to my friend about his wife. Since the divorce, my friend and Sarah know about the affair, but are true Switzerland friends. He was one of the very few people I told, and his response was so disheartening that I have basically not told anyone else since, except anonymously to this group of misfits. If your best friend can shrug it off in the name of keeping the peace, then what’s the point?
I wish I could tell my friend “hey, your jerk wife knew about this for years, even before I knew anything, and she did nothing,” but I don’t think there’s any use in that. My friend is on Team Sarah, and Sarah is on Team FW. So, I just have to let this friendship die. It’s just amazing to see someone like Sarah be completely un-phased by FW. I think if roles were reversed and I did to FW what FW did to me, she probably wouldn’t allow me into her house.
I suppose if he ever came to me and insisted on knowing why I don’t visit anymore I would tell him. I just don’t think he’ll have the spine to do anything because he hasn’t shown any spine in the past.
Maybe Sarah is a former flame of your ex or has always wanted to be.
If Sarah knew, your so-called best friend knew and did not tell you. He is not your friend. You have been in the dark and are playing catch up with reality. I do not think of this group as misfits. We are all just chumps.
Yeah you are probably right.
Also, I use the word “misfits” with total affection lol.
After separating, my MIL wrote to assure me that she wasn’t taking sides. But OF COURSE she had been and would continue to side with her son who could walk on water in her mind.
Far more people, mutual friends, didn’t say anything to me but stayed friends with him in clear flying monkey fashion. I suspect a few knew about his affair when it was going on but didn’t say anything.
I also experienced my doctor making excuses for my trichomoniasis, even when my h had symptoms, too, saying I picked it up from toilet seats. It’s sick that medical professionals can protect cheaters/abusers like this!
“I also experienced my doctor making excuses for my trichomoniasis, even when my h had symptoms, too, saying I picked it up from toilet seats. It’s sick that medical professionals can protect cheaters/abusers like this!”
In my case, it was chlamydia — the doctor asked me if I was in a monogamous relationship. I, proudly wearing my wedding ring and not at all sure why he was asking said, “I’m married.” As if it was self-explanatory that my relationship was monogamous. Silly me — I thought it was self-explanatory and that it was monogamous. The doctor didn’t say another word, just wrote me a prescription and saw me on my way. On that occasion and the few other times I was treated, no one ever told me it was unlikely that I was infected all of a sudden if my relationship were truly monogamous, and this was long before you could look things up on the internet. It was before the internet.
It wasn’t until I happened to accidentally land in the treatment room with a female provider that I was enlightened. The “good ole boys” club lived and prospered in those days.
I’m sorry you had to go through this, RGAL! I can completely relate to how it is unfathomable that you should need to answer whether your relationship was monogamous when it’s clear that you’re married. It’s part of the betrayal, being in the dark about not only the affair but the consequences to your health, too.
I handled the flying monkeys by pushing them to the outskirts. There were quite a few because his conservative Christian family and parts of our church refused to see how the marriage had imploded and become unsafe on multiple fonts. He had significant mental health and addiction issues on top of all the rest and had taken off to another state to reinvent himself as a single man. Nothing in that situation was safe for me, so I refused reconciliation. He initiated the divorce, which I agreed with. It was a mess until he finally ran out of fuel to get at me. Reportedly, he has moved on with a serious lady friend.
One of the positives of what I went through is that I don’t tolerate certain kinds of people and am no longer a people-pleaser. My attorney teased me about working on appropriately putting away “nice Elsie” in certain situations, and it’s second nature now. Dealing with my ex via email on closeout taught me that a brief, friendly reply is all that is sometimes needed. It took me a while to get that I don’t need to go deep with the excuses, ever, and it’s OK to say, “I’m really busy today and will get back to you tomorrow.”
“One of the positives of what I went through is that I don’t tolerate certain kinds of people”
Hear hear.
Before I say anything else-I make my narrative below tongue firmly in cheek-I did not have NEARLY the horrors visited upon me described above. People covering up an STD like that AND it leads to cancer and removal of organs? For their “friends”? Stunned silence. Not a great start to trying to keep my faith in humanity today. “You are the company you keep” I suppose.
Now that THAT has cleared my sinuses…(deep breaths)…seriously, people wonder why some Chumps have gone all “Discovery Channel” on or after D-Day. I had a screed about “complicit minions” in my head…but…just…damn.
You’re all way stronger than I will ever be.
On that note…yeah. I’m just…wow. There was complicit people…but…damn. No.
I am so sorry.
My FW’s flying monkey was our pastor who colluded with him to keep me from leaving. Me and five other women made a complaint to the denomination, and when that failed to produce much result, told our story to the media.
Most flying monkeys, however, I just ignored. In time, I almost felt sorry for them. They started off defending him against the accusations of his evil wife who had taken the kids, etc. They even gave him money to fight me for custody of our disabled son. Well, he won custody by convincing our autistic son to say he wanted to live with dad, and then promptly sent our son to live with me because he didn’t really want to take care of him. He also now owes money to a lot of them, and he is losing the house his family helped him buy because he refuses to work.
The kids and I are doing great and just glad to be out of that circus.
My flying monkeys came from my step son who helped his cheater dad out in many ways to ditch me, plus I lost that set of grandkids early. My other step daughter was supportive but it was her dad and soon that onnection cooled.and grandkids less there this years.My friends at church who went silent after I told my story, opened my eyes to the truth of how close these friends were not. It was good information. I did have new friends from church that held on to me and did not let me go until I could walk again. It was a sheep and goat situation and it was a gift from heaven to know who my real friends were. My XHCheaters entire family iced me…but then again cheaters mother had used 6 men throughout the years to marry, nor love, but extracted all she could before she dumped them. His cousins did the same and remarried for the use of their partners..never for love.So those were cheaters maternal example. It just took a few years to go down the Same path of what he said he hated. It was lies after all.
My XBIL is probably my XH’s biggest enabler, definitely financially and probably emotionally as well. He is happy to give my XH money whenever my XH comes to him with an outstretched hand. He also lied (by omission) to my face when I was crying in front of him because I didn’t understand what was going on with my XH. He knew my ex was cheating on me and making concrete moves to leave me, and he said nothing, just let me cry. XBIL is also a cheater, and my XMIL made excuses for both of her cheating sons. She told me I was the daughter she never had, then lied to me about my ex, and made excuses for XBIL to his then-fiance when that cheating came to light. I didn’t realize until I was on the outside how enabling the whole situation is/was. I learned a lot of hard lessons from my divorce, most importantly: just because you treat people how you want to be treated, doesn’t mean they will do the same for you.
I haven’t had any contact with X’s friends as I don’t know them and as for his family, his nephew spoke to me a few months back about him, but he wasn’t exactly singing X’s praises at all! Quite the opposite in fact and he agreed with me I’d done the right thing chucking X out. I don’t know if this means he’s a FM? I did see one of the SILs as I was driving through her village a few months back and she gave me a wave and a big smile! Apparently, she’s not against me either!? I’m surprised in a way but then according to the nephew X’s behaviour at his mother’s has been hard to tolerate and even his mother apparently told X that I left him because of his carry-on!
I read the story above with my mouth hanging open, totally gobsmacked! That doctor betrayed the poor woman as badly as her cheating H did, and he betrayed his profession! I was a nurse for nearly 20 years so I know only too well not everyone in the “caring” professions is a good person, and a fair few are not at all nice, but that’s on another level! Pure badness! I’m glad he was struck off and that her cheat of an H lost his job too, the pair of weasels, BUT nothing will really compensate this woman for what that foul pair did to her, God love her!
My ex-inlaws were particularly obnoxious flying monkeys. My ex-MIL lectured me one evening about how I needed to show her daughter more love and asked me if I needed someone to take care of me in a mocking way after I mentioned how my cat did that. I responded that my cat had been more faithful to me than her daughter… more true than I even knew when I spoke it.
Hey!! Hoping all of CN was live on the drop of Stupid Things Cheaters say! Somehow some of the questions did not go audible but CL and Sarah’s responses did! What a service to chumps to hear the very lies they think are valid until they hear it as part of the cheater handbook. Get on Patron, pay a tiny fee and enjy those live program. I needed all this info to remain NO CONTACT when I felt weak. Once I knew the cheater book they all read from, knowing I was not special, understanding the lies, seeing my value- my then husband showed me a D day and DID NOT CARE if I cried, worried about his stuff, Spyder motorcycle, parking spot, tools, guns,..not me at all..and I still felt bad for his pain and how could he ACTUALLY WANT TO LOSE ME when I had taken care of everything’s. WOW JUST WOW. Then my flying monkey couple friends tried to keep us both informed on the other. Double spies…sigh* it does get better and I am thrilled to leave all the monkeys and the zoo behind. Thank you Tracy and Sarah!!
I am thankful that I was not given an STD or find out my kids were not mine, etc. However, I am still angry about all the “friends” aka Flying Monkeys, that knew my wife was having affairs and did not tell me. They all pretended to be good Christian men and women but never seemed to rebuke FW for affairs. One even came to me after D-Day to tell me it was only a “one-time, low pleasure” affair that fit into some bullshit reconciliation matrix, i.e. Hopium. She told me I should forgive FW when she knew it was at least four longer term affairs. I still feel pretty stupid for not seeing through the “low pleasure” sex excuse for the affair(s). What I am really thankful for is Tracy and this site speaking the truth about the low character of cheaters!
Many people, and sadly I think a lot of them pretend to be religious, are FULL OF SHIT. That’s pretty much the bottom line.
What the heck is a “low-pleasure affair”? What kind of person feels comfortable deciding from the outside that they know that someone else’s affair is “low-pleasure”?
Maybe not actual aiding and abetting, but people who willingly believe what’s coming from someone who has proven to be untrustworthy? Oh yeah. My FW is a Jesus cheater; the AP was the choir director at church. When it blew up, tons of people at that church, including and especially the priest and deacon, all found out. Every single f***ing one of them has been there for *her* to help *her* get through this difficult time. Want to guess how many of them reached out to me? Big fat zero. Now, I was mostly a Christmas and Easter attendee, but they all still know me. I’ve been to both the priest’s and deacon’s houses for social gatherings. I’m a registered member of the church. But she’s more active, she was really friends with them, so I guess that makes it OK for them to take her side in this, as though the divorce is somehow mutual. She claims that they have asked *her* how I’m doing but (a) I don’t see any reason to believe her and (b) they all know that she had been lying to me for at minimum months; why would they think she has anything resembling my best interests in mind when they ask her questions like that instead of reaching out to me directly? I was suicidal for *months*. Still am, if to a lesser degree. *She* got comfort on how hard it must be for her.
My pastors and other men In our congregation took his apologies to them as a conversion experience..I was not asked
Absolutely horrible story and I’m glad she was able to get some justice out of it, but the doctor at least should have gone to jail as well.
As someone who has had cancer and a complete hysterectomy, I can definitely sympathize and I have to wonder if it might have been caused by a prior STD. I just don’t know. I think this is FAR MORE COMMON and far worse in women, than people realize. I sometimes think of historical figures like Henry VIII’s wife, Katherine of Aragon, and her many miscarriages, and wonder if it was because of his rampant womanizing and STDs. Even with present day women with a lot of miscarriages or fetal damage or infertility or eventual cancer, I have to wonder if these are also caused by undiagnosed (or possibly even unknown) STDs. I hope it’s changing, but women’s health issues are often ignored or mocked or minimized by medicine just as the woman in the story was, and not just because the doctor was a personal friend of an FW. This has been institutionalized, possibly because it is more difficult to diagnosis things that are part of an internal system as women’s problems often are, rather than men who have more obvious things externally.
I think it’s important for sexually active people to routinely diagnose for full STD panels and even after marriage if you have any issues, it might be a good thing to check. Those little viral or bacterial critters can cause so much damage and sometimes lie dormant. I think it’s a great reason for advocating far less promiscuity than people have been engaging in since the 60s. It really does spread disease in ways that are frequently unforeseen and may even affect the next generation. Committed relationships and fidelity really ARE the best way to go for many reasons.
I think one of the reasons for the “flying monkey” behavior is that the flying monkeys are also fucking around on their spouses and your FW probably covers for THEM as well. It’s a mutual support system, or at least, they have the same view of marriage and infidelity. Consider whether the flying monkeys in your situation maybe cheaters as well.
Mehitable…I agree..my flying monkeys had all been” Former cheaters” or married to one they had groomed to forgive…that leaves those volunteers afraid they might be next so they collude with their cheater..a way to show even more forgiveness. It’s a skein as well…not mine to untangle. Just go by behavior and believe them, they are not your friends.
I completely agree. I think alas, the behavior mystifies a lot of people who lose friends and other family members as well as a spouse or lover. That kind of whole loss of a social network can be so devastating as you know. I think it might help for them to consider that these people may also have the same view of marriage and infidelity as the FWs and therefore are empathetic. And as I say, they may literally be helping each other cheat or covering for each other. If this is how someone thinks, they will be willing to overlook or excuse this….or even help it along.
My father was the FW’s flying monkey. He loved the FW “like a son” and wasn’t quite so enamored of me, his own child. After witnessing the FW swinging a canoe paddle at me (he missed), my father talked me out of canceling the wedding. “He’s just Latin,” he said. “They get all angry and then they forget about it.” And then he added that, “You’ll never find anyone better.”
My mother, when I told her that FW was cheating on me, told me FW was “just wonderful” and it must be my fault. She also passed that theory on to my entire extended family. I’m estranged from all of them now, except for one 90 year old aunt and one cousin.
I’m so sorry to hear that, Ruby, it’s horrible. Again, as I said to 2xchump, I would have to suspect that your parents marriage also included cheating. I don’t see why they would support this really terrible behavior unless they could relate to it somehow. I’m glad you value yourself far more than they do, unfortunately, but it’s their loss.
My situation was different, but the result was the same; I know this outrage and pain. Made it easier for me to just walk away from the whole deal.
Love this term! Yes, my FW had a number of flying monkeys who either looked the other way or covered for him. At least one was purchasing the time and services of one of the many people the FW purchased. One former, very church-involved co-worker was very forgiving, in large part because he is also a serial cheater and is fine with abandoning his son to his ex in another state since the child was a toddler. One steered us to a quite horrid website called “Affair Recovery,” that turned out to be a lot of preaching and BS. Great term!
Is that the program where they try to talk you into “standing” for your marriage (which basically means putting up with any kind of abuse or degradation)? Some of the church people are the absolute worst, but I guess that’s why they feel they need religion so much.
It was a program with all sorts of online videos and a workbook. It was terrible for me and really set me way, way back. I wasn’t aware initially that it was put on by such a religious group. It very much promoted “working through,” the serial cheating and used awful terms like “wayward spouse.” You know, like he got lost on the elevator to his hotel room with a prostitiute. There was an untrained “group leader,” who reinforced all sorts of BS. None of it was in person. It delayed my getting good help and doing what had to be done. Thankfully, I had some good friends, a great physician, and found an excellent licensed and experienced therapist. I would caution folks about this and similar prograns. Look at them carefully, get references, ask a local licensed therapist (or three) and trust your gut. I lost a lot of time and had a lot of extra heartache I didn’t need.
Decades ago, probably in the 1970s, I read a memoir in which the author, an MD, had an anecdote about covering for a cheating husband by not informing his patient that the condition he treated her for was an STD. The husband was “repentant” and ever so grateful, and promised he’d never cheat on her again if given this second chance. I remember being shocked and furious.
I feel completely sick over what happened to the OP’s friend. Basically the friend’s ex-FW fulfilled the fantasy of ever cheater by ensuring that this poor woman would never experience sexual fulfillment with anyone else again, sort of like FGM or castration. I suspect that’s not really an accident but a manifestation of a sadistic wish. So many cheaters attempt to subject chumps to emotional forms of FGM or castration.
Well I’m not going to be a flying monkey!! I just told a long-time friend off last night because I figured out she is cheating on her partner! She told her partner to leave – gave false reasons- to get with someone else. I told her if I see him that I will tell him why too. I don’t have his number to call. She is spitting mad pissed at me!!!! I don’t give a flying fuck!!! I’m sick of lying, self-centred assholes all around!!
Bravo 🙌
Bravo, Orlando!!!! We need a lot more people like you with backbone and morals!
Thank you. Unfortunately I tolerated her narcissism a lot longer than I should because of how long we’ve known each other. Some friendships shouldn’t survive after high school.
What a sneaky cheat too! I’m one of her BFFs & I never knew!!! I wondered sometimes if she might be up to something but she never breathed a word.
Did she never breathe a word because she knows what you’ve been through– meaning she sat around mirroring you all these years, credibly pretending to have aligned values, etc.? Shudder. That’s so creepy and compartmentalized. It would make me wonder what else she’s capable of.
I’ve known her since we were young, so I’ve tolerated more from her than newer friends. Mirroring is correct. I think I’m her goody two-shoes friend when she wants to look (be?) good & she has her other friends, most whom I don’t like because of their values. She told me she wanted to be a better person & working on being one because another mutual friend told her off for being so narcissistic. I’m just sick over what she has done to her very nice man!! He certainly deserves better than her!
The reason I question the idea that cheaters were all consciously scamming from the very beginning of relationships like sociopathic Dick Dastardly cartoon villains is because it appears some– at least initially– “wanted to be better people” than they actually were much like your friend.
It can be very disarming to have someone gazing at you in an admiring appeal for guidance on all ethical and moral quandaries and it may appear very sincere to the degree the person is actually invested in it. So, from what you say, it looks like this so-called friend cultivated a friendship with you for the same reason she married a decent guy– to see if it would rub off and/or to seek momentary asylum from the fellow twats she usually keeps company with or bangs.
I think there’s a price to being a shithead that even shitheads can sometimes recognize. For one there’s the fact that being a shithead naturally places one in the company of other shitheads and, in the end, there’s really no honor among thieves. By the nature of what they’re doing, most cheaters will flip back and forth between relationships with fellow cheaters (any witting AP)– aka, fellow shitheads– until they get burned yet again and then will boomerang to the other extreme– find an honest chump as if seeking asylum– at least until they get tired of their own goody-two-shoes mirroring, get tired of feeling like heels and long to “let their hair down” and be themselves again in the company of like-minded shitheads.
Anyway, in the idealization stage, some cheaters may have assumed their chumps would magically inspire a positive character upgrade sort of like Cindy Lou Who melting the green heart of the Grinch. Again, they might even invest in this wish so hard that it makes them appear completely sincere. But that magical assumption really arises from the fact that abusers universally blamed all past bad conduct on former victims. See, it was up to the victim to either “trigger” the bad behavior or prevent it.
Now that you’ve had a falling out with this friend, her mask may slip all the way off and you could discover that she secretly blamed you all along for being chumped because, like all cheaters, her bloodstream is still 90% victim-blaming swill and her attempts to vampire a few goody-two-shoes didn’t manage to change this.
With FW 1 (who cheated, financially and emotionally abused me and had and physically abused me earlier), alongside the cheating, he also simultaneously alienated me from my children. His vile family aided and abetted him with the latter.
As one example, Sweet MIL/hyper-feminised “Grandma”, did a number of things to undermine my maternal role – they sound like small things in isolation, but it was a collective campaign: she took my young son to get his hair cut without asking or checking in with me; she organised an o/s trip for my daughter to travel with herself and hideous FIL, and what do you know? The flight HAD to be scheduled for Xmas day, so that I couldn’t spend Xmas day with my daughter;she organised a birthday party for my daughter and all my daughter’s school friends and parents, at MIL’s home and on a day that I couldn’t attend due to work training….etc, etc….
Meanwhile FIL and FW’s sister were assiduously siphoning funds from FW’s profits into their collective family business (and I was never able to recover that money).
My children would come back from visits with these assholes and would call me things like “it” and “weird” and “not social”.
An evil, vile and narcissistic family system.
In retrospect I was far, far too nice to them. I was also scared of being rude or fighting back! The me I am now would go to town…and rip them to shreds if they stepped across my boundaries…
Vile people don’t respect or even recognise goodness, conciliation or balance – I think at the time I was in shock at the toxicity I was surrounded by and I was paralysed…
Luckily I’m now very close to my children. This occurred ten years ago. I think I was close to taking my life. Not quite…. but not far from it. Thank God I had supports and therapy in place. Crucial…
A chump owes nothing to a flying monkey because their colours are clear…
….I should clarify that this in earnest alienation and financial syphoning strategy was employed by my former in in-laws, once it was clear that FW1 and I were separating (because he had cheated).
I had been a loving DIL for 20 years prior.
They had always made me uncomfortable on some level though.
Now, I don’t think I would ever date someone who was enmeshed with narcissistic parents – it would be a huge red flag for me now…
It’s really beyond belief how far dirty people will go to cover up, image manage and then plot against, punish and isolate whistleblowers. I have a close friend whose own parents and siblings are trying to do this to her kids, not to mention trying to alienate her friends and community acquaintances. They used a lot of the same tactics you mention except the central contention was, among other things, this friend’s discovery that her parents and siblings were undertaking an elaborate scheme to rob her favorite grandmother’s estate.
As the oldest child born when her parents were still young and struggling, my friend had essentially been fobbed off to and raised by this honest grandmother which might explain why her parents saw her as the goody two-shoes black sheep and excluded her from their many dirty financial schemes while her younger siblings were apparently fully on board.
In any case, after the death of her grandmother, my friend discovered what was being done to the estate and confronted her family and this is when all the masks fell. She called lawyers to find out if there was any way to investigate and report what her family was doing but was told they’d been far too devious and that trying to legally fight the case would probably impoverish her not to mention crank up the epic smear campaign against her. All she could do was try to distance herself from her family and their criminal activities but she said doing this was like leaving a cult. Her pearl-wearing garden club mother even broke into her house in an attempt to get to the grandkids, then physically attacked this friend and had to be bodily removed by my friend’s husband. The rest of what ensued is much like you describe though only one of the kids was susceptible to the brainwashing and alienation attempts. Unfortunately some former friends in the community sided with the parents and believed the bizarre smears against my friend.
Because of what she went through, I barely had to explain to this friend why I went NC with my smear-campaigning former MIL. I ended up introducing this friend to the work of Professor Jennifer Freyd who basically made a career in psychology by studying and chronicling the outrageous lengths her parents went to to cover up past sexual abuse and silence her. There were a lot of similarities between what Freyd described and what my friend endured even if the secrets being covered up were of a different nature. But, wouldn’t you know it, my friend later discovered a sexual basement under all the financial skullduggery. Her father turned out to have a secret love child close to her age. She also started to realize that one uncle is probably a pedophile and she may have barely evaded being targeted as a kid herself.
It even dawned on her that the rift with her family probably began forming cracks earlier than her discovery of the plot against her grandmother. It was when she, I and another local mom formed a committee to investigate vetting practices for district teachers after a scandal broke about a child molester on school staff. At the time she’d been mystified about why her parents and siblings were less than enthused about her involvement in the school issue. Now she thinks it’s no surprise. Maybe not all embezzlers and thieves are sexual abusers but she figured sex offenders and their flying monkeys have already crossed over into darkness so deeply that financial crimes probably seem like an afterthought and come especially easily.
By now I think she’s over the worst phase of shock and is in the gallows humor stage but is still having to intercept her family’s attempts to get to her kids. She always sends worried texts to all her friends right before Christmas to make sure the wrapped gifts everyone sends her children are really from friends and not her undermining family.
Gallows humour and NC are the perfect post trauma antidote – I’m very glad that your friend fought off their attempts, was successful and remains savvy…
My 72-year-old 350 pound neighbor was helping FW cheat. The neighbor was like a grandmother to my child I had helped her and her incredibly low IQ husband and family with numerous medical issues. FW went away right after D-Day and foolish me didn’t think it was to meet an AP. I figured it out while she was on the trip. I confided in neighbor what was going on and was concerned. FW was having a mental breakdown. She told FW everything, and they plotted behind my back.
Big Helen (The 350lb neighbor ) came in the house and attacked me. she then called the police. I videotaped the attack and big Helen got arrested. I went to her trial where they tried to dismiss the case. They didn’t inform me that I had to be there until the day before, but I made it and I stood up in court when they tried to dismiss it and yelled at the judge, And pointed out that legally, he may be in trouble it helps to have a shit load of lawyer friends. She did community service. Big Helen also tried to turn the church against me. That is when. when I exposed that Big Helene also had A boyfriend that FW helped her communicate with. I printed up the emails and handed them to big Helen’s children and the women’s guild at the church. For five months prior to that those old bitches in that group torment me every time I went to church. Now they all hide their faces and shame. Big Helen Was run out of the church with her equally big friend for inappropriate use of the churches women’s guild checkbook.
What an awful and confronting scenario. It’s like the moral void has a gravitational pull – they collect and coalesce around each other…
It’s a kind of collective savagery. ‘Big Helen’ had no reason to be in your business other than maybe a tribal delight in ‘taking you down’.
Continuing the monkey theme, I used to picture it as Kubrick’s apes collectively following one another’s suit and engaging in a frenzied thwacking of the alien tablet in the first part of 2001 Space Odessey….
I don’t think that all, or even most, people, have this savagery in them, but some really do.
Flying monkeys are cowards and they scuttle away when things look like they could backfire onto them – which is why it’s so important to hold your ground (either through action when needed or just as an internal attitude of inner strength and not being rattled by them) – which is exactly what you did…
That is hands down the most horrific story I have heard. I am so sorry for your friend. Really the doctor should be in jail.
I don’t know that I really ran into flying monkeys from the FW XW, other than a male idiot who got a local political placement somewhat due to my FW XW’s position as chairman of our town’s selectboard, at the time (she was unseated later, ha ha ha).
He stood up for her when we were surrounded by a bunch of people on our main street, and I was publicly laughing at the cartoon representation of the FW XW as chairman of the selectboard (it showed her as an uncaring administrator type for the issues going on in our town).
He said something along the lines of she’s a great selectboard chairperson, mainly it seemed because she had helped him get his local position. I didn’t bother to retort. I simply laughed to myself, and shook my head at him.
Mainly that was because I couldn’t believe an idiot like him would stick up for her against her husband of almost 25 years, that she had recently exit-affaired with her boss (within the last three to four years, at this point). He was basically saying he knew her better than me, which was patently ridiculous.
But I guess he may have been infatuated w/her outward beauty and intelligence (turned out a lot of guys were, but especially those interested in local politics), and that she gave him a small amount of status w/the position. Who knows?
Instead, I remember most an older couple that the FW XW and I were friends with. After staying up all night crying (with my younger daughter keeping me company through the night), from D-day’s late evening into the morning of the next day (no sleep for me that night), I went straight over to them for support.
They listened to my sad story, then immediately remarked, “Oh, well, we will never be friendly towards the FW XW’s AP (her rich, 15 years older, married for 40 years boss), but we can’t choose sides in the divorce.”
Later, they sort of seemed to morph into maybe flying monkeys? The wife wanted to have regular talks w/me, possibly to keep the FW XW updated?
I don’t know for sure, but somewhere along the way the FW XW told me they were HER friends, and I was also reading Chumplady at that point and learning about both Switzerland friends and flying monkeys, and I thought, she’s right, they ARE her friends, and went no contact w/them thereafter. Saved me a lot of stupidity and aggravation (of that, I have no doubt).
The other one I think of was a female political friend of the FW XW’s, who I also had a minor friendship with. She told me (after D-day) that she’d seen the FW XW and her boss in a non-local supermarket prior to D-day.
She was surprised by them, and I can only guess they were acting couple-ish (she didn’t get specific), but she decided not to say anything to me (I don’t even recall what if any rationale she had for doing that), and hoped I would understand, and I guess forgive her?
This was a long-time, married woman. Never seemed to enter her head whether she would want me to do the same to her if the positions were reversed. Unbe-fucking-lievable.
Well, I’m on my way back from Western Maine, and my son is telling me how much money I need to give to him for discs he’s purchased for disc golf. It’s a HS graduation present he’s only now taking advantage of.
Lots of love, peace and hugs to all my fellow chumps this weekend. Hope we’re all enjoying it, and that’s for those who aren’t, that good times are headed their way soon.😊