How to Survive Seeing an Ex at Your Child’s Wedding
My son got married last weekend and I survived seeing his father, my long ago ex, at the wedding.
This isn’t the freak who made me Chump Lady (the cheating ex), this would be the first FW I married when I was young and stupid. Who I divorced because of his untreated mental illness. My son was 4 at the time.
I used to be mortified that I was divorced twice and now I feel it’s a certain badge of honor. I think it says less about me than the applicant pool. What’s remarkable is that I had the good sense and grit to escape two abusive marriages.
The first ex, my son’s father, sued me for custody, mostly pro se, for a decade. Trials which he lost, but winning wasn’t the point. Terrorizing me with the threat of taking away my child was the point. A tactic we now recognize as coercive control, but at the time just seemed like a very personal problem I had to endure with the help of expensive legal professionals.
So, you can imagine how THRILLED I was by the prospect of seeing Creepy Ex at my child’s wedding.
I don’t blog much about my personal life, except to give you the broad idea that I have chump street cred. But suffice it to say I know from breeding with fuckwits. The no shows. Thousands owed in back support. The canceled insurance. Weird mail. Stalking. Imperious commands. Insults. The you-missed-a-spot critiques on my parenting from the guy who stiffed the dentist and ghosted the kid’s violin concert. Who eventually went years without seeing his child, or remembering his birthday, or Christmas.
Yet, the man LOVES a public parenting victory lap. The last time he crossed my orbit was college drop-off day. He hadn’t seen his child for three years at that point, but he decided to drive two states to show up for the first day of school. (Yes, for the college he wasn’t paying for, and the kid he forgets exists.) I made an early exit to miss him.
Fast forward to the wedding.
I try not to discuss my son’s father with my son. And vice versa. But he let me know that his dad was invited to the wedding “only as a guest.” Not as a participant. Which is a pretty damning assessment when you consider it. I figured with a 130 other guests, it would be fairly easy to avoid him.
But notice him? Absolutely unavoidable.
Because, CN, he showed up looking like a deranged hermit. Long scraggly white mullet. Wearing what appeared to be his idea of formal dress attire. An ill-fitting (ladies?) jacket, tuxedo shirt, and what a cousin reliably informed me were nylon jogger pants.
My son has a big heart to invite this embarrassment of a man and shit human being to his wedding. That’s his choice and I have to respect it. The day was about my son’s love for his bride and everyone’s love for the couple. It wasn’t about me, and it certainly wasn’t about the Unabomber look-alike cruising the buffet line.
At the venue, I was happy to see, seated at the table next to me, two of my dear college friends, LeAnna and Maureen, their husbands, and my best friend from Texas, Jenn, and her family. “Yay! I’m so glad we’re together!”
And LeAnna immediately shot back: “Did you see who ELSE is at our table?” And there, in an empty seat, was Creepy Ex’s name card. Jenn said, “I volunteered to sit next to him. Don’t worry! We’ll distract him and keep him away from you!”
I’m sure all the color drained from my face. Absolutely no way in a 4000-square foot party tent, would I be sitting two feet away from this a-hole. I could feel the “don’t make a scene!” vibes from my friends. Who valiantly thought they could throw themselves on the crazy ex grenade and manage the fallout.
Seating charts are not law.
“Oh HELL NO.” I stormed off to find the wedding coordinator.
I found her across a field, by a table of fizzy drinks. She saw me coming and looked terrified.
“We have a PROBLEM. You have my creepy ex sitting two feet away from me. You need to change this NOW. I do not want him near ANY of my friends or family.”
I resisted the urge to emotionally vomit on this young woman, who looked about 12 years old. However, I did say, “This man sued me for over a decade and tried to make my life a living hell. I don’t want him anywhere near me.”
And to her credit, she GOT IT. And she fixed it. She apologized. “I told him there was a mistake” and moved him to the other side of the tent, to a bunch of the bride’s South Dakotan relatives who had no idea who he was.
After that, I relaxed and really enjoyed the evening. Mullet Man was back to the periphery. Still a turd in the punchbowl, but someone else’s problem now.
Which brings me to my tips on how to survive seeing your FW ex at a wedding.
Realize their punishment is being them.
On the wedding program was printed: “GROOM’S PARENTS: Tracy and Paul Schorn”
No mention of Creepy Ex as a parent. Because he wrote himself out of the story. How sad is that? If he had a simulacrum of self-awareness, he’d want to die from shame. But because he’s a FW, he’s happy to get a party invite and free snacks.
Mr. CL said about FW at the wedding: “Imagine you’re NOT a Kiwanis, but you go to the big golden Kiwanis gala — which you didn’t help plan, or pay for — and go load your plate at the buffet. Then shake the hands of the real Kiwanis as if you’re one of them.”
#loser
Don’t be ashamed of your boundaries.
I recognize the right of my son to have a relationship with his father. My tolerance, however, has limits. I said in advance, I would not pay for the rehearsal dinner if ex was there and I was expected to pay his share. If he wants to come, he can pay half, like a real parent.
And I had my momentary drama about the seating chart. There was a time I would’ve bowed to the pressure to go along, chump-style, and eat the shit sandwich of co-existence. But no longer. I matter. It’s not uncivil to have boundaries.
Abuse is uncivil.
If I just go about screaming “Keep him away from me!” and don’t say why, I look like a loon. Maybe I look like a loon anyway. But I was very matter-of-fact about why I demanded this distance. This man ABUSED ME. Stalking. Litigation abuse. Coercive control. Financial abuse. He is an ABUSER. Just because he’s shambling and looks like a harmless, cross-dressing wizard doesn’t make my history with him any less traumatic.
I don’t care if other people don’t get it. I get it. And that’s major progress from my chumpier days.
And one last revelation from my child’s wedding.
You can be happy anyway.
I had a wonderful night. Once that boundary was enforced, I forgot about him and moved on. Best moment was my mother’s reaction to the couple’s elaborate dance routine (WHO KNEW MY SON COULD DANCE?) — she was completely agog. The dips, the aerial lifts! The kiss! She kept grabbing my arm, “He must’ve taken lessons!” Then there was ice cream, and more dancing. Cousins, aunts, loving friends… teary speeches. It was magic.
Brava, Tracy! A master class in classy, strong behavior as a parent and a woman. A terrific column with great advice.
Yes, beautifully done. It’s too easy to get paralyzed by decorum into tolerating emotionally unsafe circumstances or stressful proximity to goons.
I feel like the program identifying Mr. CL as your son’s father says it all!
I should probably know this but what is a CL?
Chump Lady. She’s the OG. So we call her Mrs. CL and her husband is Mr. CL.
Oh no doubt about it. I love reading her posts. She’s the woman I strive to be one day ❤️ “chump lady” hit me right after I posted but now it’s been confirmed 🙂
Chump Lady
This line – looks like a harmless, cross-dressing wizard… made me laugh outloud. What is up with FW’s as they age they get so much weirder. They always were weird but they hit 60 and it is ON. I am glad you had fun. Married I found you when your son was still in high school. I am so glad it was lovely and you look so happy both you and Mr Chump.
congrats to your kid(s) and to you and mr. CL, of course. i love a celebration.
wait a sec. you moved + son’s wedding? are you all right? #thatsalot
LOL. You forgot Elon Musk DOGEd Mr. CL. It’s been a heck of a few months, but we’re fine now. Thanks.
I completely missed that Mr CL got DOGE’d…Im so sorry. I hope that you can make the move to your advantage. The poster who said that you are known by your enemies is correct – it’s a badge of honor (but likely sucks too).
Except for the unfortunate career kidney punch, I think it’s a massive badge of honor to be canned by someone who did that, em, double salute. Know a man by his enemies as they say.
Elon is also a serial adulterer to quote his child. As is Trump, Peter Hegseth and others of the same administration… Hmmm 🤔
I’ve been reading a series of studies on attitudes and beliefs which, if pieced together, basically argue that “infidelity tolerance” = “rape myth acceptance”= “hostile sexism” = “racism” = “authoritarianism.”
Seriously– Google any combination above and you’ll find current social research “correlating” at least two if not more of these attitudes/beliefs. I think it explains literally everything that’s happening in politics today.
That bastard! I hadn’t heard that. Sorry about the DOGEing. Congrats to the lovely couple and proud parents, which is you and Mr. CL of course, not you and the Unabomber guy. You handled the wedding planner perfectly.
Yet one more reason to deplore DOGE.
A Marine might refer to FW’s public impersonation of a parent as stolen valor.
I seldom endorse violence, but I feel moved to add that when Hell’s Angels find a person sporting their insignia without genuine affiliation, they take it from him. Even if it’s a tattoo.
Congratulations to our beloved Tracy — and thank you for continuing to set an example for us!
My dad’s Purple Heart was stolen from the ward of a VA hospital where he was getting his left arm reconstructed after a near fatal combat wound. The thief was apparently one of the typical scions of the rich and powerful who dodged service by working as hospital orderlies. But my dad had a very philosophical view of the theft. From growing up in the hood and seeing countless pathological liars stumbling out of corner pubs bellowing their drunken tales of glory or woe to the lamp posts, my dad instinctively knew the lie about having served in combat would eventually drive the thieves stark raving. He had way more respect for the conscientious objectors being held in a prison which shared grounds with the hospital since the latter willingly shouldered public disapproval for the sake of their beliefs.
There are all kinds of theories about mental illness being caused by brain chemical imbalance or genetics, etc. But I think my dad had a point and an underappreciated major cause of insanity is just plain old bs– often by abusive individuals who, due to constant rewriting and rationalization and blameshifting, drift further and further from reality until they’re babbling at the walls.
I LOVE the Hell’s Angel analogy. I’ll carry the gory tattoo removal thought with me if I ever have the misfortune of encountering him again.
First, congratulations. You and your son deserve extra extraordinary credit for growing into such a fine young man, and clearly still a believer in love and marriage. Unfortunately, my daughter’s wedding two years ago did not turn out as well.
We had been divorced two years after being together almost 30 through emotional abuse, cheating you name it.
My daughter initially wanted to elope and much to my regret now, her groom, her brother and me, talked her out of it. She had a small wedding, but she decided that she wanted her father’s name on the invitation, even though he was not contributing one cent and did not reach out to me during her entire year of engagement
However, she decided she didn’t want him to walk her down the aisle. I walked her down the aisle, and I sat down. There was a point in the ceremony where the clergy acknowledged the recent passing of my father and some items that were incorporated into the ceremony regarding other family members. He had not been asked to contribute or involved in any of this, but he had basically disappeared during her year of engagement.
Here’s what he did do- he stood up in the middle of the small ceremony, grabbed a stick and started breaking it in half and hyperventilating she said she saw him out of the corner and it ruined her entire ceremony
The next day she and her husband went to exchange some private vows. Apparently my ex took my son to another location, and threatened to kill himself, yes a suicide threat, my son panicked, and called my daughter in the middle of this other private wedding activity between the two of them, it was an extra extraordinary cluster$&@ My ex had done passive threats before but my kids did not know
I know this sounds cold hearted, but my ex had a history of doing this.
What my narcissistic ex did was what narcissistic ex ‘s do – he made the wedding about his crisis his pride and about him.
Despite having been given every opportunity to participate
Here was his opportunity to show some dignity, some respect compensate for the bad parenting and the destruction of the family. And he only made it worse. My daughter hasn’t talked to him since it’s so painful. I felt that if she didn’t have him at her wedding, she might regret it, and her brother said that he wasn’t going to cover for her for the rest of her life- tell his father that there was no wedding, so she acquiesced
Nobody could have come close to imagining or expecting the unbelievable display of mental illness and emotional disturbance that took place
I feel guilty and even have a hard time writing this. I apologize if it’s not written well. It felt at the time like a rock in the hard place – don’t invite him and it’s a problem have him there – we anticipated certain problems like you did, but we never could’ve anticipated.this
The clergy became very upset at my daughter because he said if he would’ve been aware of the situation, he could’ve helped. The groom’s family ended up feeling badly for my ex
It was just terrible and we can barely stand to look at the pictures.
I will add by way of follow up. My ex recovered quickly, was just fine, never sought help and portrayed himself as a victim with a rude and ungrateful daughter
What an asshole – making it all about him as usual and manipulating others into believing it and you to be the villain.
Absolute twat of a man doing that to his kids.
I’m sorry you had to go through that.
Thank you. It is helpful to share.
Meanwell, thank you for sharing a painful story. I’m sorry for both your daughter and son to be manipulated so badly by their sperm donor.
The minister was upset at you? Woah, victim blaming much? I’m outraged on your behalf.
Internet hugs and i hope your FW falls into an open storm drain.
Thank you no apparently the clergy told the groom’s parents that if he had known anything about the problems in our family, he would’ve handled it differently so my daughter interpreted that as he was blaming her. She just got piled on. It was awful but thank you for your kind thoughts it still hurts. My daughter and son-in-law have to live with it. I do resent the clergy for speaking about something. They really knew nothing about. It was none of his business. My daughter did not have to discuss it with him before the wedding.
The kind of “spoiler” behavior your ex pulled is featured in the series Maid starring Margaret Qualley. If you haven’t seen it yet, I don’t want to spoil the spoilerism but it has to do with a coercively controlling dad wrecking a daughter’s birthday.
“Ruins/spoils special occasions” is often listed as a feature of borderline personality disorder but what bothers me about a lot of the pop-psych articles mentioning the behavior is that– probably due to misogyny in traditional psych which insists that it’s mostly women who develop borderline– there isn’t yet a general agreement that most domestic abusers show borderline traits. This can lead to a failure to warn about how dangerous some of these individuals can be.
Consequently I’m annoyed by professional advice (like this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/theyre-driving-me-nuts/202310/how-to-manage-holidays-when-a-family-member-has-bpd ) on how to “manage” the disordered individual’s behavior in ways that demand everyone adapt to it and tiptoe around to keep the peace because this effectively whitewashes conduct that is often simply “abuse.” The psychobabble view often doesn’t acknowledge the option to simply not go to the event or not invite the disruptive or abusive individual and mostly doesn’t discuss the often absurd cultural and social pressures requiring that people like this remain included in the family fold. It’s normalizing what is essentially a hostage situation.
I think I prefer how Friedman’s Fables interprets situations like this: https://harleyvoogd.com/2017/02/17/the-friendly-forest-by-edwin-h-friedman/
Thank you. I did watch Maid. It is excellent and it is really on target for the more covert type of abuse
my FW faked suicide attempts multiple times during the false reconciliation in order to gain sympathy and divert attention. This is what covert narcissists do! As painful as the experience was for your daughter I hope she’s learned a lifelong lesson about FW manipulation tactics.
Right now she’s handling it by cutting him off and he’s raging about that. We are really not sure that there can be any future manipulation that was worse than this. Nobody knows how to handle him now except to stay away.
Mine made threats, never carried them out. There were a few very obvious idle threats sprinkled throughout the separation process. They did what was intended, I was slightly anxious all the time at the thought of his suicide, and had an overall feeling of guilt, but I wasn’t afraid that it was imminent in any one moment.
Then one day, after he had a falling out with my oldest, he made a threat that sounded very convincing. It was via text and I very much thought he was currently about to do it. I got the police involved. I was terrified. He was fine.
After that I went almost entirely no contact. Told him that if he ever showed up at my home unannounced, I would call the police.
The thing is, a threat of suicide from someone like that is actually a threat of violence against OTHERS as well. It is abuse, pure and simple. And it was the trigger that finally got me to see that he was never going to change and we could not be friends. I know, many of you are wondering how I would think I could be friends with a cheating FW to begin with, I was afraid of him and
“well trained”. He was emotionally and verbally abusive in our marriage, and he remained that way after moving out. This faux suicide threat was the catalyst I needed to see the cycle I had been in for years and continued to remain in.
But boy was he mad that I believed him and acted accordingly. He was angry that the police did a wellness check and that I didn’t go check on him myself. As if that would be a wise idea if he was actually suicidal. I am not trained in emergency medicine, and who know what he would have done to me if he was actually in that dire of a headspace?
You did the right thing. And yes, my therapist pointed out afterwards that people who are suicidal are often homicidal and the thought of my son being alone with him in a hotel room was terrifying. I can’t believe he would be violent that way, but nobody expected him to do this.
I can thank my brilliant feminist lit professor for warning me in a student meeting about “coercive suicidality” as a feature of personality disorder. I think it came up because she was in the middle or writing a book about being tormented and controlled for years by a disordered sister and also maybe because she just sensed I was a fellow bleeding heart chump/sap and would probably run into this issue at some point.
It was good timing because, not long after this discussion, the disordered and pill-addicted extended family member of family friends pulled this stunt, causing horror and panic. As per my professor’s recommendations, I urged that people call the police to make a wellness check rather than giving into demands as they always had.
The individual was reportedly so embarrassed by the police encounter that they never pulled the stunt again. They also apparently finally got into recovery but, unfortunately there’s no such thing as Assaholics Anonymous so, even without the pills and booze, they remained a walking disaster.
Oh, and btw way, aside from several other unpleasant character traits, the individual was a career side chick just like the professor’s sister as it happens. Go figure.
I will remember the phrase coercive suicidality. It’s helpful and it makes sense. I wonder if your professor put it in context in terms of any specific emotional disorder? My therapist at the time called it a passive suicide threat someone who’s threatening suicide without means or a plan
In case of the professor’s sister– who eventually did kill herself– I think it was borderline made worse by certain psychiatric drugs which are now known to cause rapid cycling mania and depression in some individuals (essentially drug-induced bipolarity). Unfortunately, no one knew this at the time and the professor only learned about clinical side effects after she published the book and received feedback from professionals. So there were apparently mediating factors though, from the book, it seems the sister had issues since childhood and long before exposure to drugs– a kind of aimlessness and dependent tendency to copycat others’ personalities and choices.
It’s odd because I had a close friend– a really brilliant jazz musician– who was born in the Bronx like the professor, was similarly vital, charismatic and sensitive like this professor and who had a younger brother with the exact same empty, aimless, suicidal traits as the professor’s sister. This friend also got caught up with trying to save his brother for years. The really sad thing is this guy’s brother refused to donate a kidney to this friend but then tried to kill himself several times anyway. At least in that situation, the suicidal brother survived but my friend didn’t. He eventually found a non-family donor but it was too late and he died pretty young.
The FW has never pulled tha stunt again either. It didn’t get him what he wantejd, so why would he?
That is a good point. Mine does not seem to have the awareness to understand that it is not serving him in his relationshipthe way he thinks it’s going to. I guess if he’s just looking for attention in the moment he gets it. I explained to my son that his father had done this probably four times over the course of our 30 year marriage before this time and that gave my son some relief
My mom was a Borderline Personality Disordered alcoholic. When I was a younger teen, she said she wanted to suicide because I was a bad daughter then told me how (handing herself from a very large local bridge). I was actually a nice kid and she was a dreadful mother. I have always known her behavior was abusive but it is comforting to hear it confirmed.
My Cheater spoke of death all the time but didnt overtly suicide but refused to seek medical care for issues that turned out to be fatal. It seemed to me to be passive suicide when he died.
Very sorry you went through that
It is incredibly abusive. When my FW made that threat, I was more concerned for my daughter than anything else. They had had a falling out and had he done that, she may have felt it was her fault.
What a terrible thing for a mother to say to her child!
“Parentizing”– i.e., making a child emotionally responsible for an adult– is damaging even if it’s just weepy bouts of self pity. It can occasionally happen that children might see their parents break down into tears or the like but, unless the circumstances are extraordinary (seeing one’s family massacred?), sane parents will valiantly try to get a grip to avoid traumatizing children.
Yes, that behavior is horribly abusive. No child or adult deserves to go through what you did.
Same ole same ole from the NPD playbook! My FW was also supremely angry at me for contacting therapists, police about his suicide threats because at the time I didn’t yet realize what a manipulative POS he was. I thought I was doing what any caring spouse would do.
NPD for sure, but also huge borderline traits. That being said, I hesitate to fall into that because it creates empathy for them, but you can only take it to a point because they can’t hurt people around them.
Also, what I have read is that always call 911 if there is a suicide threat. As was mentioned here if they’re faking it for manipulation they’re embarrassed and they recognize there are consequences that they don’t like. If they are genuinely in distress, then they receive the help so it’s a win-win
From a terrible experience in my state, which our son’s therapist immediately recognized, if you are not in the same county as your 911 call, then you get routed to the non-emergency line in your own county. I had to call a local friend and have her report the attempt.
Yes, this has been reinforced for me as well by therapists. Unfortunately, there are people who use suicide threats as a manipulation or sometimes a coping mechanism.
Both my kids are traumatized. My son, for being in a room with his father who was threatening to kill himself and then of course my daughter because of the destruction done to her wedding
it’s really surreal. And it does a disservice to people who are truly in crisis and need assistance.
Maybe your daughter can re-new her vows or do something very priate with just her husband for a 5/10/15 year anniversary that can made a new better memory?
Thank you. I know they have discussed that but now I just try and stay away and let them process it as they need to. It definitely did damage as did his family’s reaction which my daughter interpreted as their siding with her father it’s just been a mess They were delt a huge starting blow. And I often wonder if that was his goal. To sabotage the wedding, not just to put the attention on him, but to ruin it for her. I appreciate the supportive thoughts.
You might want to gird your daughter against the fact her in-laws are a bit dense and blamey because it won’t be the last time she runs into this problem with them. You might be able to do it indirectly by casually bringing up, um, articles related to personality disorders, victim-blaming and “bystander mentality” related to other topics.
She knew he was difficult. She knew his behavior was often selfish and destructive, but nobody expected this. As for the in-laws, she was not thrilled, but she wants to have a relationship with them for her husband, so she’s just cautious.
Hopefully she’ll be able to navigate the complexity. Ironically it sounds like the in-laws are a bit spoilerish too but simply justified it based on the spoilerism of your ex. Like a contagious spoiler daisy chain. 🙁
I’m so sorry, meanwell. Please don’t continue to blame yourself. Please forward in happiness and not back at something you cannot change.
Should be “Look forward”… it seems I cannot edit my comment.
Thank you. Some parts of it fade with time and some parts of it actually get worse in my memory.
Thank you this was about the only Space in which I could share this story
The suggestion of a private vow renewal is actually brilliant! I had certain places and holidays so tainted by FW and D days but creating new memories over those has taken away the painful associations. Erase and replace
I just want to say this happened to me in 2022. My fatso ex showed up with his salt and pepper man bun and walked my GORGEOUS daughter down the aisle. After years of coercive abuse, hiding assets and dodging child support, and a smear campaign that took me years to untangle and disprove. Which I did. My daughter is a DELIGHT because she was raised by ME and she has acknowledged this to me. The only thing that bothers me to this day is he and his also narcissistic father were telling anyone who would listen that he gave my daughter $30k as a wedding gift. I haven’t said a word to my daughter about this because I want the specialness of her day left intact, but the absurdity of that is staggering. But I stayed on my side of the tent just like you Tracy. Well done!
I’m like, “Does it mean you’re old if you’ve been reading this blog for ten years and feel sentimental about CL’s son getting married?”
Congrats!
And any mention of Mr. CL means something funny is about to be said. The Kiwanis analogy is a new classic. 😂
Me too…I felt like an Aunty hearing he was to marry. I thought “aw…and I knew of him when he was a teen leaving towels on the floor”. Maybe have a healthy. loving married life.
I had a wedding surprise myself recently. As my Cheater is deceased, there has been conjecture about who would walk my only daughter (29 and engaged) down the aisle. I had become resolved to the idea of the bride and groom walking down together but yesterday she told me he prefers maintaining some traditions including the placement of bride/groom in the entrance process. I was puzzled where that left me. She was trying her dress on and yelled from another room “you can walk me down the aisle”. I single parented them through some serious shit, so Im rather tickled at the prospect, but will try to remain flexible in case some other concept changes her plan.
oops…autocorrect doomed me… I intended “May he have a healthy, loving married life”
Congratulations to the newlyweds and to the whole CL family! Wedding dances always bring out hidden skills — my father shocked us all with his Fred Astaire impression at my sister’s wedding. Most surprised was my other sister, who, when Dad spun her out and twirled her back, had to hold her dress together to preserve modesty. We had no idea that he was so talented.
My daughter was married last October, and I hadn’t seen Ex in ten years. Wow, did I dodge a bullet. He’s now 75 lbs. overweight, has had two hips replaced and his spine fused, and forgot to wear his newly-acquired hearing aids the day of the wedding. I’m absolutely certain that either all the anesthesia caused some cognitive decline or else he’s deteriorating cognitively. The photographer had to straighten his tie and tell him to zip his fly, and I was giddy thinking “Not my problem anymore.”
Thanks for the photos of two happily-married couples, Tracy!
Sounds like a wonderful event for your family! Thank you for setting an example of firmly refusing s$_t sandwiches. You set a brave example for chumps everywhere
Just one of the beautiful things about CL is that she always sets the best examples. Sometimes there are shit sandwiches that we just have to hold our noses and swallow, and she let’s us know that it sucks but must be done. Other times, she shows us what boundaries are perfectly acceptable to set. (Like moving the FW across the tent)
I think maybe Chumps that have been through it and have been here awhile can figure those out themselves often. But when things are still new, it can be hard to know what lines to cross or not. There is SO much good guidance here. Even Mr Chump Lady has chimed in, one of my favorites is “If it feels good, don’t do it”. I always add the caceat that while I did follow this rule very strictly, the way I convinced myself NOT to do the petty/vengeful thing in the moment was to to tell myself that I din’t have to do it now and could always do it later if I still wanted to And of course, with a little time, the urges pass. Whatever works.
I am so happy for you CL! Kudos.
I’ve had to endure the weddings of two of our triplet sons. The first wedding took place out-of-town in a high-priced, high-demand city. The bride’s parents thought they were doing us a favor by reserving an Airbnb apartment for us and our other 2 sons (they made the reservation a year in advance and had no idea we’d just split) so there we were, 14 months into our separation, barely communicating and in very close proximity for 5 agonizing days and nights. Thankfully, the place had more than one bedroom, but we did share a bathroom. As usual, FW put on a great public show, turning on the charm, acting as if nothing was wrong and (mostly) treating me like I was still his beloved wife… yakking it up with me at the rehearsal dinner, pulling out my chair at various restaurants, making me breakfast, asking me to fix his shirt when a button fell off, complimenting my MOTG outfit, bringing me wedding cake and dancing with me at the reception, etc. I knew had to be extremely careful and guard my feelings because it would’ve been very easy to misconstrue his behavior as someone who was actually interested in getting back together with me. As soon as we got home from that wedding, I went 100% No Contact with FW and never looked back.
The second wedding was a bit trickier. We’d been divorced about 15 months at that point and I was still firmly in the NC camp. Thankfully, my son and new daughter-in-law took very good care of me; while FW and I did have to sit together in the front row during the ceremony, they seated us at different tables during the reception, they nixed the traditional parents-of-the-groom dance, and most important, they told FW that Married Howorker was not welcome to attend any wedding-related events. So FW brought his sister as his date; he looked like a miserable sad sausage while I was seated with my cousins, my sisters, and some very close friends who chose me in the divorce. I had the best time ever! The next day, I hosted a brunch for 20 people at my post-divorce home and it went off without a single hiccup.
If my third son ever gets hitched, I’m sure FW and Married Howorker-now-Wifey will both be there, but hopefully, I can negotiate the parental seating arrangements to limit my interaction with them. No matter what happens, I’m at Meh so I’ll be OK.
I don’t know how you endured that B&B. I probably would’ve slept in a ditch.
Thanks, Tracy, it was really hard… I seriously thought about leaving, but by then, we’d shelled out so much money for airplane tickets, the B&B, the rehearsal dinner, other wedding expenses, meals, etc., it would’ve been a financial hardship to rent a hotel room at $400/night. Plus, the bride’s family were staying in the other 2 apartments in the same brownstone, and they’d planned several “combined family” events to take place in their apartment; my absence would’ve been glaring and I didn’t want to embarrass my son. As I said, when they first booked the B&B, the bride’s parents had no idea we were separated and FW was divorcing me to be with Married Howorker; I did get the opportunity to share this information with the MOTB before we all went home, and she felt terrible about putting me in that position.
However, in addition to the wedding itself, there was another bright spot. FW lost a button on the shirt he was planning to wear to the wedding later that day. I was sitting in the B&B’s kitchen, working on my laptop, and he came over, dropped the shirt and the loose button on the table in front of me, and said he was taking our 2 sons out to pick up lunch, and they’d be back soon.
Obviously, his unspoken expectation was that I’d sew the button back on his sleeve, just like I’d been doing for 40 years.
About 20 minutes later, FW and the boys got back. FW immediately noticed that his shirt — and the loose button — were still sitting on the table, right where he’d left them.
Puzzled, he said, “I thought you’d fix that for me”.
I looked at him and said, “Nope”.
He looked at me like I had 3 heads. “No”?
So I repeated, “No. Since you decided I was no longer good enough to be your wife, why would I continue to do wifely things for you? You’ll have to find another way”.
In shock and visibly upset, he plopped down in the chair opposite me, pulled out his laptop, huffing and puffing, and starting looking up the phone numbers for nearby dry cleaners who might have an alterations person onsite. He didn’t even know what neighborhood the B&B was located in (as usual, I’d made all of our family’s travel arrangements), so of course, he had no luck. Then, he went to YouTube and searched “How to Sew on a Button”, and turned the volume way up so I could hear the video. I ignored him and just kept working. After a good 30+ minutes, he finally made his way through the horribly difficult challenge of getting that single 1/2″ button sewn back on his sleeve (something I could’ve done in under 3 minutes, but why would I).
As I said, when we got back home from the wedding, I went cold turkey NC. Total termination. Full on, you-are-dead-to-me. By then, I was so disgusted… no, repulsed… by him that I didn’t want anything to do with him. I realized how after 4 decades with this man, I was completely homogenized and under any other circumstance, I not only would’ve sewn the button back on, but I would’ve re-ironed the shirt and had it hanging perfectly on a hanger, too.
About a week later, I decided I wanted some tangible way to celebrate the fact that I’d finally exercised my agency, stood up to FW and flipped the script. I went online and bought 2 charms: one was designed like a button, and the other was designed like a milk bottle (as in homogenized milk). I went to the bead shop where I normally make jewelry, and created a bracelet with the button and milk bottle charms front and center.
Good on you with your “No” story… Good “No” stories would make a good Friday Challenge “Tell us your first/best ‘No Story’ “.
He can stick that button where the sun doesn’t shine.
I LOVE THIS! Enjoy your freedom from this man.
Thank you, I definitely am!
Magnificent, MyRedSandals! I’m imagining you sitting there calmly in your spunky footwear, and his surprise that his button was still detached. ha ha ha ha ha ha
You made my day, so thank you very much!
Aww thanks, Eirene!
🤣
Yeah that would be me definitely sleeping in the car.
Thankfully (?) I will never experience this.
My stepdaughter had asked me to walk her down the aisle of her expected eventual wedding but passed away before this could be.
And my ex aborted the only other pregnancy she had because I informed her that there would be a paternity test done before my name was attached to any child she gave birth to.
So this would only happen if for some ungodly reason I was mysteriously invited to the wedding of one of my ex nephews or nieces.
Which I would have to respectfully decline because I obviously don’t belong there in any fashion.
If I did I wouldn’t have been made an outcast throughout the entirety of the marriage.
Not trying to make drama, rather avoiding it as there’d be no reason for my presence to begin with.
But my stepdaughter had asked me to design her dress, I truly would have loved to see that day.
Miss her terribly, she was a good kid despite her mom.
😭
Oh Matt, I am so sorry about your stepdaughter. What a terrible loss. (((Matt))).
Thanks much.
But, congratulations on the wedding!
May they have a long and healthy partnership in their marriage.
Congratulations on a fantastic wedding! Well done for having boundaries 👏🏼
I have had to interact with FW for the past week, not because of a wedding but because our daughter was in an accident overseas and I rushed to be by her side. Then the FW decided he needed to be here too, which made us both terribly anxious as I’ve been no contact for 5.5 years! Our daughter sees him sometimes but is weary of him.
Well when he arrived he was Mr Perfect. He was super helpful, was cooking me meals (something he never, ever did in 25 years) and being caring and kind. It actually felt nice after all the abuse and my dream had come true- that we could co-parent and be focused on our child.
Well- the cracks started to show pretty soon. He kept trying to control me, dominated the conversation, made decisions to suit him but tried to make it sound like it was to benefit me and was back to the general “him” that is a narcissist. My daughter and I have caught him in a ton of lies, big and small, and his freak show lifestyle is peering through slowly (such as his toe nails are painted nicely) and he began ranting about the downfall of the world and how he wanted to live remotely on a gated compound. He’s a middle aged man that only wears Addidas track suits or ripped jeans. He lectures both of us constantly. And best/worst of all, he’s leaving early. This is no surprise- he can’t even come to help overseas in a medical emergency without showing up all big and showy and then leave early and disappoint – it was his MO forever- leave you hanging and wanting or needing more. Classic abusive and manipulative tactics – but this time it’s for our daughter.
THEY DON’T CHANGE.
I hope your daughter is okay!
Yes she has a long road ahead but thankfully she is okay 💕
Way to be mighty- you went, had a good time and no blood was spilled.
And banned the turd from your table- a most successful day!
I was you last year – it was my son’s wedding and a beautiful day apart from the twin turds Ballbag McGee and the Whoremat – otherwise known as the father of my children and my replacement- she’s not their mother- step or otherwise.
They cheated then he refused to let her have her own children so they took ours- being a cop, he used his position to leverage that.
My beloved elder son knows his father well so kept us far apart- I did give his father’s parents many hugs though.
My father , the brides stepfather and I got up and spoke – Ballbag had told our son he wouldn’t do a speech but he saw me get up so jumped up immediately after me and spouted the most ridiculous hypocritical crap you’ve ever heard.
I stayed in my seat and remained zen but inside my head I’d decked the bastard for daring to take credit for the amazing man our son is.
It was a beautiful day – but a hard one.
My advice to anyone is to know you’re better and got the best deal- let your love for your kids be bigger than your dislike of their father and any hangers on.
Congratulations!
’nother wedding story. My FW shook my hand and greeted me politely when he encountered me and my partner at our daughter’s wedding. I was prepared for drama to ensue and was not disappointed… for my son was uncharacteristically unreachable in the days and weeks before the wedding and my last hope was to see him at the venue and he was not there. If anything had happened (I’m from outside the country), someone would’ve told me, right? I kept my mouth shut and my best friend who is also secretly a very good sleuth came back in less than five minutes with the whole story: my son was in the hospital in a city 4 hours away. The story was that I didn’t deserve to know. My best friend also took the opportunity to correct the story that was going around about me. She’s the best!
My ex FW had convinced my daughter it would be better to tell me after the wedding. So we’re there and my son was not. I didn’t say a word to anyone, no questions about why he wasn’t there, etc., and I had an absolutely wonderful time at the wedding with the FW glaring at me from across the room.
After the wedding, I zipped off to see my son who was very ill but happy to see me. If I’d known, I would’ve been able to see him before the wedding too. With an FW, there’s always some damage control but seeing him have conniptions over me not asking him about our son was priceless. He had something planned for that eventuality and I evidently foiled his plan.
OMG! The cruelty of that. Like you wouldn’t have missed your son? Or you would have a great time and THEN he could shatter the glow with news of your son’s emergency? FW never cease to amaze.
Maintaining boundaries whilst remaining classy and ensuring that the focus remains on the happy couple.
An object lesson in getting it right by CL.
LFTT
Hello, aerial lifts?! How awesome is that?!
Thank you for sharing so generously with this post. It helps put to rest a lingering anxiety about my own daughters’ future weddings.
Congratulations!!
Wow Tracy! Congratulations!!!!! My favorite part of your story is that you moved ex’s place card off your table. So many would have just “eaten the shit sandwich” and sat where they were placed. It was smart and then you could actually enjoy yourself and have great memories.
I imagine when / if my son gets married, his FW dad and a handful of his dad’s family will be there. But I know my son understands that I will be avoiding FW like the plague. I also know that my son hates AP so if FW is still with her, the drama will be theirs to bear. And AP gets serious anxiety, especially around me (when I’ve run into her in public, I’m overly loud and smiley and say HI! HOW ARE YOU? — which sends her into a total anxiety attack running off in the other direction ((shrug))… so my presence is enough to keep them away.
When my son had his Bar Mitzvah, during the actual ceremony my friends and family kept FW and his idiot parents away from me. It was great. For the party later that night, I set it all up and didn’t invite FW and he raged about it and threatened to come anyway, so I made sure to inform the staff and even the entertainer… all of which completely understood and looked forward to escorting his a$$ out the door. The entertainer was a muscled athletic dancer who told me he was raised by a single mom and he would absolutely ensure FW wouldn’t disrupt anything. Not to mention, one of my guests’ husbands was a cop who also was willing to step up. But FW never showed, so everything went off without a hitch. Still, I get why you have to explain the issue with a FW do you don’t sound like a lunatic.
So happy for you (and the happy couple)! Thank you for sharing your utter badassery! I hope I can pull off 1/2 as much if my kids ever get married. Also, love Paul’s analogy. 😀
Congratulations to you!
I remember the first time I had been in the same place as my ex (that I knew of) was at my grandsons HS graduation. My H and I sat on opposite side of the auditorium. My son was sitting on the same area as his dad and the whore. Some came over to invite us to sit with him. I declined, I knew that would have made it tense for me and for my son.
Anyway, H and I had a really good camera with us and with it you could scope the crowd. I took it and looked at my son and his family and honestly I didn’t realized my ex was sitting there in the row below him at first. There was this fat old guy that had a beard down to his navel. Looked like what I perceive as a mountain man, except fat. Most mountain folks are not fat.
It was so weird. Please note I was a bit overweight too, not knocking weight; it was the appearance and how creepy he looked. This was not long after he had taken early retirement from PD. I imagine the beard was a rebellion against “the man”. Honestly it just wasn’t a good look.
I don’t remember what she looked like, I think I was so astounded on how he looked, I glossed over that.
The next time I saw them was at my granddaughters graduation, I actually talked to the
o-whore for a couple minutes, the how’s the weather type of conversation. FW walked up next to her looked up at my H with hatred, ducked his head, then slunk away. But, he had gotten rid of the beard and lost some weight, he actually looked a bit healthier, but he still looked kind of like a big rat dressed up like a man. I assume that is just my mind seeing him for who he was instead of who I thought he was.
Congrats to the lovely young couple and to you ChumpLady! That’s so wonderful, I’m so glad it went well and was a wonderful time that the FW did not mange to dull.
I had multiple dreams about attending my son’s wedding in the future. I’m sure it’s a common thing to stress about for people in our situation. But, my ex will probably be in prison still so it’s no longer something I have to worry about. It’s a relief.
Wait a minute… Katie, feel free to not answer this as it is not any of my business. But your ex is in PRISON? I have been here at CN for awhile and I am familiar with his crimes, but I somehow missed that he went to prison. I must have assumed like so many slimey abusers that he got away with it.
So..when you talk about people taking his side and snubbing you, these people are snubbing you for someone who was CONVICTED of having child p*** and went to prison??!!! The women that he associated with who had kids that you warned didn’t come back and apologize to you for snubbing you and not believing you? Again, I always thought he must have gotten away with it and told those people it was all a lie. And even then I found their behaviour shocking. But he is actually in jail for it and they still acted this way? WOW.
I’d be suspicious of the whole lot of them. Who does that?
I think this is a recent development. I believe KatiePig posted a week or two ago that her FW is in prison.
Two handsome, happy couples: that is success and the result of being mighty. Congratulations!!! 🥂
Congratulations on getting thru a milestone while faced with an ex, holding boundaries & having a GREAT time!!! I’ve only encountered FW & Schmoops at a high school graduation. I actually only caught a glimpse of FW there because I avoided the post-gathering ….mostly because Schmoopie is the narcissistic problem, not FW!. She’s the attention-seeker & I dread any upcoming weddings because of it. FW I could handle but a jealous & vain OW is another story. Lord have mercy I almost wish my kids will all elope!!
Wonderful! Congrats on all fronts!
Also, kudos to Jenn!! May all of us have Jenns in our lives (and be Jenns for others)!!!
Tracy I just about jumped out of my chair and cheered while reading how you marched across the field to stand up for yourself!!! You absolutely practice what you preach and there are hundreds of thousands (millions??) of us who are the better for it. Way to be QUEEN OF MIGHTY!!!! And congratulations to your son on his new bride!
My daughter got married two years ago and didn’t invite her dad.
Someone (his sister?) must have tipped him off about the wedding.
So, roughly one week before said nuptials, he sent me this seemingly innocuous and gracious email: Please give [daughter’s name] and her fiancé my congratulations and wish them the best.
BUT I know that man. He must have been seething that he wasn’t invited, and he has a black belt in passive-aggressiveness. In this seemingly sweet email, there’s an implied, “I wasn’t invited, but I’m still the bigger person” tone. He’s trying to assert his presence and make sure I know that HE KNOWS.
I did not reply to him. NC all the way!
Congratulations. And this is why I am filled with guilt because my daughter’s instinct was not to have her father in attendance and she was given a logical but instinct fighting argument into having him there
Maybe with some empathy for him and then disaster struck.
Also, maybe still a remnant of chumpy me and my delusional state of thinkiing that he should be there for some reasonI’m glad your daughter had a happy wedding.
Adding my congratulations for this happy milestone, and all those that come in the future!
This was wonderful timing for me, as I have a wedding coming up with my oldest son next month and will have to be around my EX FW #1 for several days!
Thank you for sharing Tracy! If you can keep your boundaries rock solid and have a good time, then we all can! Great inspiration!
Hey Chumpy Girl, I’m going to share my story in case it helps you prepare. The thing that’s mighty about what Tracy did is that she reacted quickly to an unexpected situation.
At my son’s wedding a few years ago, I was prepared for and dealt with my ex as necessary. What caught me off guard was my (ex) sister-in-law, who had a bit too much to drink and who was crying on my shoulder (“I miss you”, “I haven’t connected with his new wife”, “you know how it is being married into this family”, etc). I was too empathetic and spent time comforting her. I wish I’d walked away to pay more attention to my son cutting the cake with his beautiful bride, enjoying dessert & espresso martinis, etc.
It’s all about the bride and groom but you DO take priority. Be prepared for anything, even if it’s egregious (Tracy’s situation) or unanticipated. Congratulations!!!
Thank you, Dudette! That is good advice. I didn’t think about other “distractions”. I will be on the lookout for that crap!
Yayyeee Tracy!! It’s over and you made it! So happy for you and your mighty moves and your never to be take lightly stand for justice and sobriety. These are the high moments that are never forgotten. So proud of you too!! Your descriptions of deranged Ex makes it so real and funny.. I can experience the day with you. So stressful even if they are 20 tables away…but way to make necessary changes. Thank you for the photos of young love and hope!!! You and Paul, priceless!! But a move and wedding!!???? That’s a lot!!!
!! My sons wedding I kept busy helping and my X stayed away from me. My daughter’s wedding was heartbreaking 💔 because she favored her dad the cheater and I was outside that circle. But I made myself useful and smiled until the very end…then caught a ride to my hotel room and cried out of self pity all night. Got on the plane and went home. It was over and my daughter had fun with her father’s family. So it was a beautiful memory for the bride and groom. Even in non- divorced homes, sometimes a child prefers one parent over the other so I recovered in time. I was still married to #2 cheater and my daughter hated him so I was included. Such complex issues. Never mind!! CONGRATULATIONS Tracy and Paul Schorn and in your honor and for such chuzpah I raise my glass.🥂
What a fine son you raised, to nonetheless invite his “father” to the big day. The acorn did not fall far from the mother tree. Your son and bride look so happy, as do you and his father. Congratulations!
Congrats to Tracy, son and wider family at what looks like a joyous event despite the weirdo ex appearance. Very uplifting.
So many of you have horrible stories — I think I was damned lucky with my wedding experience.
Four years ago, about a year after the divorce was final, I got an invitation to my step-daughter’s wedding. I had known about the engagement — she emailed me the next day. And I’d met the groom once, even though I lived nearly a thousand miles from her. But I wasn’t sure I’d be invited to the wedding because the Cheating Abusive Douche had lied to everyone we knew about how terrible I was, wouldn’t give him sex (because he refused to sleep in the same bedroom after my cancer surgery because my body repulsed him) and did nothing for him in the nearly 20 years we were married. I didn’t tell his then-25 year old daughter about the financial abuse, verbal and emotional abuse (although that was on display for most of her life) or the physical abuse and cheating that precipitated my hasty exit with what I could carry and the dog. I had no idea what he had told her. Her mother would have been able to describe exactly why I left, but I had no idea what she’d told Margie either. I hadn’t found Chumplady yet and the RIC says you’re a terrible person if you besmirch their parent to a child, even an adult child. So I just didn’t say, and Margie just didn’t ask.
I drove a thousand miles (2020 and COVID) and stayed in a $150/night hotel room. And I showed up. The CAD came to the wedding with hair halfway to his butt, gray and scraggly. He wore muddy Crocs with his tuxedo and sported RayBans with his sailing bum tan. He looked (except for the Crocs) just like a Cuban drug dealer. (His description of the look, not mine. He’s Latin American and hates Cubans, Mexicans and anyone Hispanic but not from the country of his mother’s origin.) We were seated at opposite ends of the same table at the reception, but there were so many people I hadn’t seen in years to catch up with, I didn’t have to talk to him at all during dinner. He kept following me around before and after dinner, though, trying to “catch up” with me because if we could be seen chatting at Margie’s wedding reception, that would mean that he hadn’t done anything to make me hate him. I kept replying to him in terse, factual, one word answers and edging away. Not the look he was counting on. Margie’s family kept interrupting us because they just HAD to introduce me to someone, or because “we haven’t seen you in so long,” and her mother took me around and introduced me as Maggie’s step-mom to the groom’s family and all 8 of his siblings and their spouses. The CAD didn’t get to walk his daughter down the aisle by himself — he walked with Margie and her mother. There was no father/daughter dance, but there was a mother/daughter dance and I was asked to participate.
I did have to stand next to the CAD for the photos, though. My smile is rather frozen, but there were so many in the wedding party and the family photos that I doubt anyone could tell from the photos without a magnifying class.
I recently gave my oldest son my old diamond because he and his wonderful girlfriend are planning on getting married in the not so distant future. I haven’t seen or talked to my ex in 10 years. I have had a “we do not talk about him” for around 9 of those years. If he is invited, which I think he will be, it will include his siblings and their spouses and children. I am free from abuse and doing well. My new novel is doing better than any of my other books ever have and it is a nasty revenge novel which the writing of it helped me heal and helped me see my ex for what he was, an abuser, Not a “bad start” and “horrid end” but a classic DV marriage- I have no family alive, but I have an amazing friend family, and community. But that said, I am OK with not going? And here is where the shame come back- I still don’t feel safe. Even if I can get 2 friends to come with me, which I think I could, it won’t be enough against the cartel of his family. They all abused me emotionally, treated me like the maid..etc.. Is this OK? I realize that it hasn’t happened yet, but this thread made me think I could run this by CN. My son and I are VERY close. I think he would understand. I did not have a wedding. I am not a a wedding person. He knows I love him, and I will shower him with love and generosity. Anyone not attend due to fear of. the ex?
Could you get a close friend to go as a date? FW never cared about his extended family but they ditched me of course even though I was the one writing the christmas cards and arranging visits to them when I was married to FW. If they date besmirch me I’d say clearly it’s too bad you’re on the side of an abuser and cheater. I’m never ever kow towing to FW relatives again!
An amazing story of all things meh ❤️ CL. Should be filed under “All Things Karma”, IMO. All irrelevant matter of “that man son used to call dad” was clearly displayed (for all to see) on the wedding program, seating arrangement, and the peripheral ether to which he was relegated. Yes, ex was there. But was he?!? Huzzah!
I just caught this on a link on a post from this week. The groom is handsome, the bride’s dress was beautiful (and I’m assuming the rest of her is too) and you and the bestest husband look splendid. Plus great advice and mighty re-arranging of the seating plan!
I know this comment is late, but congratulations to your son and his bride! I love the way you handled the situation. No melting down and making a big scene, just enforcing boundaries.
It does say a lot, that your son didn’t list FW as his father and only had him as a guest. It’s depressing, not because your son made the wrong decision, but because that means that FW was just that awful. How sad! I pray for lots of continued healing and peace in your family’s lives.