I Let My Ex Bully Me
Her ex is trying to bully her by text about decisions she makes about the kids. She lost her cool and wishes she could just block him.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
My ex left us almost a year ago, leaving me a single parent with 2 kids, one with a severe disability.
He made the divorce messy, often writing in the public divorce documents about private things about me (like my deepest insecurities or sexual preferences) I had shared with him over an 18 year relationship.
Now our only communication is about the children, which I am being so mature in maintaining, even though he is living his own life doing his own thing.
Recently, I had to take our other child to the doctor. She’s starting some medicine to help her with focus at school, which is seriously impacting her grades.
I have full custody and don’t need to consult with him about medical decision making, but my daughter told him about the doctor’s visit when she spoke to him on the phone.
He proceeded to tell me I was ‘destroying her’.
When I responded that I was consulting with a qualified specialist and would follow their recommendations, not destroy her, he proceeded to say the following:
After a long day parenting our disabled child, I was not good with responding. I should have blocked him because now I feel like, how dare he? My parents are the ones helping me raise his kids while he chases his “career” dreams. I have been working full time for the past 7 years while he has come and gone and refused to be employed.
Where does he get the audacity?
I don’t want to tell my family about this exchange, because I am frankly embarrassed that I somehow let my ex bully me and wasn’t able to make him stop.
Thanks,
Chumpion of Them All
****
Dear Chumpion of Them All,
Where does he get the audacity? Oh, right here in the discount fuckwit bin at Assholes R Us. Bullying is just what these freaks do. You think he’s winning arguments with reason and gentle persuasion? Of course not. He’s bludgeoning you with insults to subjugate you. Because he sees you as his adversary.
Control is what he’s after, not consensus.
If you want to understand FWs, look at their behavior through the lens of entitlement. He’s being ugly because in his warped mind, you don’t know your place. He didn’t treat you like an equal deserving of respect when he was married to you, so why would he start now?
Uh, the children?
Assuming that divorce will make a FW straighten up into a compliant, law-abiding coparent is a common chump misconception. And conscious uncoupling aspirational divorce culture isn’t helping. (You’re not friends with your ex? Why not?!)
You’re there playing by the Queensbury rules and he’s throwing Molotov cocktails. It’s time to shift your thinking.
You are the sane parent with the authority.
Tattoo that on your forearm or something. Refer to it often. YOU HAVE FULL CUSTODY. What a thousand chumps wouldn’t give to be you. You do NOT have to explain or defend. The court has vested all parenting powers with you.
I’d be tempted to respond to every one of his texts with a screenshot of the court order granting you custody.
(But maybe not, if it feels good don’t do it.)
My point is, your ex cannot bully you if you don’t let him. Disengage. It takes two to psychodrama.
He proceeded to tell me I was ‘destroying her’.
Block. Delete. Send to spam.
Seriously, move all your communications to parenting software. Check your order, but it sounds like you’re not even obligated to communicate with him. But I’d give emotionless status updates using software. Do NOT give a FW carte blanche access to you via text.
This freak is trying to goad you into losing your cool.
Refuse to play his game. We all lose it with FWs sometimes. Nothing is more infuriating than doing the hard work of solo parenting, only to have some no show deadbeat snipe at you from the sidelines. Been there, lived it, have the high blood pressure…
But you must resist. FWs love the impression management of I’m Glad I Can Be the Grown-up Here. (See entitlement and superiority discussion above.) They’ll say something inflammatory and then accuse you of being hysterical. They’ll RECORD you being hysterical.
Nip that shit in the bud.
No is a complete answer.
When I responded that I was consulting with a qualified specialist and would follow their recommendations, not destroy her,
You took the tasty bait. Stop it. No need to defend your position to a FW.
You don’t speak deadbeat no show.
“Both of my therapists say…”
LOL. Oh he has the ear of mental health professionals? Authorities agree with him that you’re hateful!
Actual authorities, (not imaginary ones in his head) agree that you’re the real parent here.
He can fuck right off.
No contact is a win-win-win. You and your children have the space to heal, you take back your power and NOTHING is more effective for shutting down a FW.
Hell to the yes!!! Nicely put, Stepbystep.😊
I suspect that there is also something else at play here.
CoTA’s FW seems to be creating unnecessary chaos as a means of achieving centrality within a situation in which – as a result of CoTA having full custody – the FW has no or very little place. In situations like this the FW often doesn’t want “actual control” because that comes with actual responsibility. What they want is to be in a position where their opinion is paramount and that others (those doing the actual heavy lifting) have to take it into account. They want all of the power but none of the responsibility …. and if they manage to destabilise the Chump into the bargain, then all the better.
Ultimately, however, CL is bang on; CoTA’s FW is a bully and can f*ck right off.
LFTT
I’ve heard this called “back seat driver syndrome.”
Spot on. Also, he’s a freak. He gets off on messing with her.
I concur with LFTT.
“Both of my therapists say, that if it was someone other than me, it was over a long time ago.”
HUH? What is he even saying? Why are FWs always so inarticulate? And are these therapists (plural) double-teaming him? Or is one perhaps the interpreter — the asshole whisperer — so that the other can actually counsel? Who knows!?
Hey there! CoTA here! He is referring to the fact that he left us, basically discarding the children and me, because I had stopped him from his career goals and he needed to focus on himself. He spends time with our daughter when he is the country, but has not spent more than 30 minutes with our disabled child. I suppose he feels/realizes that makes him look bad. So he has 2 “therapists”(young ladies with undergrad degrees in psychology with no actual therapist training, one of whom he was trying to set up with his friend because he thought she was cute) he talks to on WhatsApp for free, who have let him know he is actually the good guy who had no other choice.
I speak fluent FW. I think it means that he’s long-suffering. If she’d been married to anyone but him (martyr! Man of infinite patience!) the marriage would’ve been over sooner. But no, he stuck it out! Until he could. not. go. on. Any can anyone blame him? Cue sad sausage violins…
Oh, that’s what he said. I honestly was scratching my head over that one.
“Stewardess? I speak jive!”🤣 Just realized that quote from Airplane might not be PC, but it’s what immediately popped into my head after reading Tracy’s reply.🤷♂️😬
Yeah I keep reading it and I can’t figure out what that’s supposed to mean.
Yeah, I didn’t understand that statement. I suspect his “therapist” is some trollop sitting at a bar, trying to get her drinks paid for.
My ex was called into his bosses office for being given one of my blog posts. They said, this is a character assassination. My ex denied all of it. When I asked if they showed it to him. He said, no they didn’t have it. I said thats because it was a private blog someone shared and it has no names, so it can’t be determined it was you.
But…. Let me read it to you!! He cried for himself all the way through it.
I’m so tired of cheaters doing whatever they want at the expense of others, but we have to be classy and show grace. To me that is just enabling bad behavior and allowing them the only narrative. You can speak your truth without losing more of yourself!
There is no talking or reasoning with a know liar!
dear chumpion,
it’s at times like this it’s helpful to remember that FW’s don’t care. they don’t have empathy. this makes them a failure at loving and parenting, so don’t bother communicating with them about important things.
repeat ‘they don’t care’ on the regular, and keep moving. you’re doing a great job. taking care of 2 kids on your own? YOU ARE MIGHTY. and that guy you used to be married to is a loser.
you lost your cool with a FW/loser. it’s been done before and nothing to be ashamed of, right? i’ve done it, too. keep moving, use a neutral parenting platform for bare minimum communications, and turn to the good people in your life.
fuck that guy.
#damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
There’s a great deal of freedom and honestly relief, when you finally let go of putting any value on what a FW has to say about anything.
It’s never going to be in your best interest or that of your kids. His actions have already showed you all you need to know about what he values, himself.
The loss of power over us is very unsettling to them.
He’s not making comments about your daughter because he cares about her. His only goal is to get back the power and control over any and everything and that’s an entry in that he sees to get to you. He will panic when he realizes that is already gone and the lashing out at you is his extreme frustration in that knowledge.
Listen to nothing he says and in time, it will get easier to do that. He will never have your back, just tell him to F the hell off. You got this, you will discover that you always have.
I see this occasionally where people are divorced but still caught up in each other’s drama. My aunt talks so much about her ex-husband, you think they were still married, rather than him living with his younger subordinate. It’s tough I guess because you spent so many years together and it’s now become a habit. Like stopping all bad habits, going full turkey & refusing to take a hit off the crack pipe works best.
I know a woman whose D-Day was over 10 years ago, and still she is picking at the wound. Unfortunately I think it’s become a part of her identity. Her life is: “I am a mom, a daughter, a bookkeeper, a homeowner, a community volunteer, a wronged wife. Did I tell you about my disordered FW? Let me tell you again. And one more time.” This is normal for a few years or so, but after a certain time everyone needs to move on to the GAL in LACGAL.
With all due respect….
Everyone’s grief process is different. One of the more upsetting experiences I’ve had since DDay is other people telling me I should “move on”. I hate that phrase and find it incredibly dismissive and not helpful at all.
I’m currently listening to what has become my new favorite book on grief and loss. It’s called It’s OK That You’re Not OK by Megan Devine. It’s been just over seven years since DDay and the grief/trauma/loss process continues for me. I will never be “over it”…..like any other profound loss, it’s something that I am learning to live with. There is nothing wrong or abnormal about how I feel.
It’s not for anyone to say how someone else should feel and for how long. On this site of all places I would hope to find respect, compassion, and understanding that infidelity is a profoundly deep wound that for some, like other profound losses, even lifelong tending might be required.
❤️
It’s ok that you’re not ok is a beautiful and very helpful description of grief
Thank you for your insight VH. You make very good points. My comment was intended to highlight the experience of what this particular woman is doing, which is to constantly analyze her FWs life (where he is going, what he is doing, who he is doing it with), her own pain, and the injustice that she suffered through. It is difficult to know anyone else’s timeline and process but for my friend it is apparent that she has developed an unhealthy obsession with her trauma. I believe there is a difference between righteously feeling a loss and getting swallowed by the grief. I did not mean to minimize anyone else’s experience, and I apologize to anyone I offended. Hearts and hugs right back atcha, and to all of the Chumps here and elsewhere.
I think the grief process can just vary so much from person to person. And the conditions they are dealing with are going to affect that too. Obviously, if we are fuming over it forever, it isn’t good for us.
My “leaving” process was very drawn out, so it’s taking @ 5 years from D-Day to having a final, legal divorce. Almost there. Currently I am as no contact as possible as one can be with kids. The FW is still frequently in my thoughts. Some of these thoughts are needed. He is scary and I need to be on alert, so yes, he comes up in my mind for reasons that I can’t ignore. And yes, sometimes it is more me analzing some dumb blame-shifty thing he said or whatever. But those latter thoughts happen less frequently than a year ago. It’s getting better. I have hope that at some point in the not so distant future, I won’t think about him at all.
But I think there are levels of “meh”. Someone who was able to go 100% no contact, has no kids with FW, no other ties that can’t fully be severed? They may get to a level of meh that is so much higher than someone with young kids,or other ties.
And of course there is the other aspect, the betrayal can continue to bleed into your new life. My spouse made a lot more money than I did. He is now in a serious relationship. Soon I am sure they will move in together. And his healthy salary will be buffered by her income. While I am left to do it on my own. I can. And will make it. But I will never be as financially stable as he is alone, let alone how secure he’ll be with a 2nd income in his home. That fact is that’s a shit sandwich that I just neeed to swallow and try not to think about because there is nothing to be done about it. And hopefully I will get to complete “meh” on it. But I could also see me coasting along for years being pretty meh, and then having some kind of financial sitiuation come up, and going back to anger that I was left in this position due to a FW. Or say a woman became infertile due to her FW passing her an STD, she never has kids and wanted them, she focuses on other thigs and is doiing awesone in her life, until at 60, all her friemds are becoming grandparents and she has some tinges of sadness that she isn’t there, and it rankles her about the FW allover again.
Long way of saying, even if we try hard to get to meh, these FWs are like little bombs that can go off at any time later.
I agree with all that you are saying, and we’ve all got our shit sandwiches in some form or other. But this woman I am writing about is purposefully grabbing the shit sandwiches from FW’s hands and cramming them down her own throat. For one example, D-Day1 was thirteen years ago, D-Day2 which caused the split was 10 years ago. Last week she was complaining about her FW coming to her home and telling her about his upcoming trip with the latest girlfriend. If she chooses to be friends with her ex, that’s fine, whatever she thinks is right for her life – but stop complaining and being hurt by that friendship. She let him into her apartment (he’s there quite frequently actually), he’s not breaking any boundaries because she has very few, so what is with the anger? Again, fine if it works for her. But if it was working for her she would not be angry and hurt. I think that by now she may be addicted to sorrow. There will never be meh for her, again, her choice, whatever. But to me this is a disordered behavior and attitude.
If she went full no contact, she’d probably be doing so much better.
I know because I was her. The FW was very emotionally/mentally/verbally abusive. And that is why my process of getting out took longer than I would like. I was afraid of making him angry because I had been conditioned for decades to BE afraid of making him angry. So every step I took was scary/angsty/sloooooow. (the irony is that HE should of been afraid of ME being angry,I was the one with a reason to be furious)
Once he moved out we stayed “friendly” for the kids. He was in and out of my house. We had holidays together. Real nutty stuff when you consider he was nice 35% of the time, neutral 15% and a nightmare to deal with the other 50%, plus he had cheated in a spectacular way!!
For me? I was just still stuck in that cycle of abuse, hoping to get that 50% nice/neutral side to tip and be more frequent than the nightmare side. Eventually just having him out my home, and with some, albeit not enough distance, it made me recognize that the only way to get away from that nightmare cycle was to get away from him. I went as no contact as possible and the progress I have made since is incredible. I still have work to do, but the distance helped. And I don’t think anything BUT that distance would have worked.
So no, as you probably suspect, her having him around, coming into her apartment and discussing the trip he is taking with his new girlfriend is NOT actually “working for her”. Maybe she doesn’t realize that. I know why I did what I did. I was conditioned to be afraid to piss him off. But when I was doing it? I didn’t consciously think I was afraid. I really convinced myself that this was the “enlightened” way to do it.
I feel bad for your co worker. It’s been a long time. She may never realize that what she needs is to not have anything to do with him.
But I imagine that if she did fully cut him out of her life, she would likely feel so much better. You can’t get mad about his vacation with his new gf if you don’t know he is on vacation with his new gf. And over time, I think a lot of us will get to a point where even if we somehow accidentally fell upon that info..it still wouldn’t phase us.
I’ve discussed NC with her several times and she says, nope, doesn’t need it. Like I said, she is getting something out of the relationship even if that something is painful. I don’t get it. (And btw her adult son is NC with his dad for years, the kid has a lot of sense.)
Our situations sound similar, with the financial conditions you mentioned, but also somewhat with the FW “sometimes nice” thing. In my case FW showed minimal signs of abuse throughout a 35 year marriage; but Oh Lordy, after both the D-Day and him finding out that the “love of his life” refused to leave her husband I was shocked at the rage, how his mask was ripped off, crumpled up and shoved in my face. Alternating with “Look at what I did for you tell everybody that I’m a great guy”. The rage was frightening. It was really the only reason I went NC. Up until then I thought we could have an amicable breakup. No no no.
Yes unfortunately whilst one tries to move on, with kids in particular the FWs are pretty effective at trying to stay central, as demonstrated in this post where the poster has full custody. I mean the FW can eff right off to kingdom come but does he – no. This week my blood is boiling cos FW gaslit our beautiful hardworking daughter on helping her with an essential medical bill (he never provides financial help, yardy ya) long story but after initially offering no problems of course (breadcrumbing) when the time comes to pay he quibbles with the cost, claims she is being ripped off (by a doctor) and suddenly has cash flow problems which coincide with him secretly flying to Dua Lipa and Billie Eilish concerts to impress his old hag AP. Ffs the man wore his sister’s bubblegum jeans to school in the 1980s it is time to give up trying to be cool. Anyway, sometimes it is hard to not have spikes of anger towards these dickheads but we try.
Take care out there in chumpland
Full custody is definitely a gift in this scenario. Go no contact other than the parenting software as Tracy suggests. Never talk to him via text or phone calls. If he does text you, keep a screen shot of anything he might say and then answer him through the parenting software if necessary (but you really don’t have to! Full custody). If in person at a school play or something and he starts in on you, simply remind him you have full custody and that any and all conversations must be had through the software, and walk away with your child. Talk to the butt…
You give these disordered people a inch, they take millions of miles. Give them nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
Keep strong with the no contact and good luck to you!
“Talk to the butt…” HAA!
At some point before I went completely no contact, I remember some phrases I would use no matter what he said or how hard he tried to bait me into engaging with him or arguing or defending–whatever. I would say, “Fair enough”, “Ok, that’s how you see it.” “I’m sorry you feel that way.”. It’s not easy, but I practiced a lot so I would automatically not give him the emotional response he wanted. When his anger ramped up because he wasn’t getting the reaction he wanted, I would tell him the conversation is over because he was being disrespectful. Now that I’m 100% no contact, I sometimes still find new email addresses or phone number attempts to bait me in a variety of ways and I just put everything like that in a folder in case I need documentation for any future legal action. It takes practice, like rehearsing for a play, but it works.
I saw something I saved while I was in the midst of cleaning out old pictures this week:
“Don’t take criticism from people that you wouldn’t take advice from.”
Let’s review:
-He cheated. Right then, right there, at the point of betrayal he lost all input into YOU. Point blank. Period. Full stop.
-He walked out on his family including a disabled child. He bought the ticket into the “family” thing but refuses to take the ride.
-He did the previous two items so spectacularly that he has NO CUSTODY. That speaks volumes right there. Last I checked, that means “he doesn’t get a say and only gets what you provide him.” I hope the dipshit is at least making his child support payments.
Does this sound like somebody worth listening to any more than you already have? I submit to you not. I get it, I’m still disarming messages about my self-worth from my personal fuckwit. We love people and expect better of them and that they have our best interests at heart. No Contact and Grey Rock have been phenomenal for reasserting control over life.
This prick is a bully and I am sorry he’s putting you through this. He is blaming you for everything and he is not going to change. He will not stop until he gets what he wants, which if he is running the standard fuckwit playbook is to stop having to feel bad that he betrayed you and your children.
I agree with our fearless leader her-set the limit and make everything go through a parenting app and press charges for harassment if the bullshit continues.
As an aside, I am happy that he is in therapy (if that is what it really is.) My therapist has been pretty good at bitch slapping me verbally when I exhibit a thinking error-such as externalizing locus of control. His should really be doing the same.
As the mother of a child with a disability who required full and intense focus for years and years to treat and recover to the point of relative independence, hats off to you, CoTA.
Because I think the findings of a study reporting that caregivers of children with autism have stress levels like active duty combat soldiers can probably be extrapolated to caregivers for children with any serious disability, the fact that you lost your shit only once in response to post-separation abuse by a bullying deadbeat should get you nominated for beatification or the medal of honor or something.
Only once? What stuff are you made of woman?! Seriously– from the texts this guy is an epic manbaby creep with a clearly untreated personality disorder. If you had a minute to spare, which I know you don’t, you could be a Zen master on the side. But because you have enviable full custody, do you really have to be?
I guess that’s what everyone’s wondering– how much, if any, contact do you have to have with this walking abortion by law? If minimal communication is required, I hope you go for the absolute bare bones monosyllabic minimum and use an app as many have suggested. This is because of something else that’s apparently often said in the autism parent arena which I think also applies to parents of children with any serious disability: we have to live forever.
You cannot afford nor should you have to tolerate contact with a categorical domestic abuser because of the measurable negative health effects this has on victims and by extension on their children. The place to start is by identifying your ex as a categorical domestic abuser, one who quite clearly engages in coercive control and who is obviously trying to weaponize your children against you.
If you’re not sure if he’s “really” an abuser and you are “really” an abuse survivor who is “really” still being abused, please consider getting a subscription to the Substack of Dr. Emma Katz, a preeminent authority on coercive control who was recently interviewed by CL on the Show Me How You’re Mighty podcast. I think if you do, it will clarify your decision making because I saw several not-so-veiled threats– “coercion”– in those texts that Dr. Katz has often specified, namely threats to weaponize your children against you for the purposes of controlling you.
From your story and the texts, there are also obvious signs of “splitting” behavior associated with serious Cluster B personality disorders (see the Wiki article on this for an intro) in which disordered people fabricate claims and rewrite history in order to make bystanders hate a target as much as the disordered person does– i.e., the old smear campaign. I think this guy is dangerous, if not in an assaultive way (though never rule that out with Cluster B), certainly to your mental health and stress levels which is no joke because stress kills. Also not a joke in an age when social safety nets are dwindling, the specter of Dickensian level “social ruin” can sometimes result from abusers’ “smear campaigning.”
Furthermore, because, as Dr. Katz argues, coercive controllers invariably also coercively control children and typically attempt to alienate them from protective parents, if your region has any statutes regarding coercive control, you might consider building a case against your ex’s bullying to stop any visitation entirely if possible. It’s the only way in which I wonder if the bastard was inadvertently, ironically, right (stopped clock twice a day style) that your daughter’s concentration issues may not be fully psychiatric but moreover related to the psychological trauma of having this abusive, alienating, creepy father.
As I learned as a former advocate for DV survivors, traumatic dissociation in children can often be missed or misdiagnosed. Though abuse apologists always try to argue that children’s “trauma” can be caused by separation from abusive parents (because of the debunked old view that those who abuse their partners won’t abuse their children), actual social research tells a much different story and argues that even perfectly healthy children are exquisitely, almost telepathically sensitive to being even peripheral bystanders to domestic abuse. Research also shows this trauma can manifest in many direct and indirect ways, even eroding immune function and sleep in serious ways and including a higher risk of psychiatric and autoimmune disorders. This is partly why spearheads like Dr. Katz and the original coiner of coercive control, the late Evan Stark, have lobbied to change child custody policies because the best “remedy” for children’s health and welfare is ideally the total removal of abusers and coercive controllers.
Of course this is easier said than done in the world we live in but I hope you aren’t being subjected to any social pressure to retain contact with this abuser “for the sake of the children” or whatever. We all know this is the dominant cultural message but emerging science and untold numbers of survivors and their children have shown the message to be wrong in this sense.
There is one particular “risk” of fully cutting this marauder out of your life once and for all or as much as humanly possible: considering how heroically restrained you’ve already proven to be, I imagine that once you’re fully free, you might just levitate and float above the ground in a bubble of ethereal light. 🙂
I can personally confirm the high stress levels when you have a kid with other disabilities. Just getting them the proper educational support is a Herculean task. I remember making around twenty requests to the school board before I finally got a meeting to discuss it, and that was probably as a result of going to the political representative in my district with the problem. Then there was another long waiting period to get a TA assigned. I actually had to have my child out of school for three months because of this. She was literally not safe without somebody at her side and in fact the fools at this particular school had allowed her to be injured by taking her skating (without informing me first) without proper support. Luckily the tooth that got knocked out was a baby tooth.
Like other minorities, people with disabled children don’t quite live in the democratic land of the free most people think they do, right? After a year of negotiating with a district and firing (on the spot– her face, haha) and replacing a lawyer who was trying to steer me to do the school’s bidding, etc., I finally got the TA… who then physically assaulted my tiny, medically fragile son.
The assault was really just a continuation of the campaign to deny my son inclusion because the district preferred to shuffle all disabled children off to institutional gulag schools. Apparently having too many disabled children in a district affects real estate prices, not to mention test curves and merit pay. I promptly pulled all the kids and filed a civil rights violation but, long Kafkaesque story short, ended up home schooling.
My son loves Kafka btw. I think he relates more than most which is why there was no chance he was going to one of those gulags. Before I knew anything about those institutional schools and the fact that there are far higher rates of death and injuries among disabled children in them, I toured one that came with the “highest recommendations.” The second I walked in, I looked down a long industrial hallway and saw a child’s weeping face pressed up against the cast acrylic porthole of a padded seclusion chamber screaming for his mother. NFWIH.
Yes! I thought many of the same things from this FW’s texts.
If you can, please let someone else be your go between .
After similar nonsense and arsehole behaviour from the father of my children, I decided I wasn’t dealing with him or his bullshit any more.- I haven’t spoken to him for a good 13 years and will never again, even though we have been in the same room or the same get together since.
He no longer deserves the privilege of access to you.
Oh I hated it when, in the early months after DDay #2 and we were separated but (foolishly) engaging via text, my then husband kept saying “My counselors say xyz about you.” and “My counselors say you are doing xyz for these reasons”.
His counselors had me diagnosed and villified without ever meeting me or even talking with me on the phone. They just accepted carte blanche all that came out of his mouth, and I now know full well what a liar and manipulator he is.
Ultimately, it was a letter from one of his counselors (a pastoral counsrlor, not a licensed professional!) which allowed my ex to be fully reinstated at his job. My ex really had him wrapped around his finger and the world (everyone except those who know me very well) bought into it hook, line, and sinker. I think it’s a common refrain in Chump Nation.
It sucks! Trust that they suck, Chumpion. Follow Tracy’s advice and don’t text with him when you’re feeling exhausted or rested, i.e. ever, except through parenting software.
p.s. I think your text responses were FAR nicer than mine would have been in such a scenario. Hold your head high – you are NOT the aggressor.
They will charm and DARVO the therapists too, and sometimes it works. During separation, my ex went to see child’s therapist in person and was able to “convince” her, per his email to me, to “see his point of view” and decline services. She immediately dropped child as a client because, as she explained in her email to me, her practice was limited to early elementary children, I think under five. Child was around 12 when she started seeing him, so she obviously knew his age.
Ex then worked the charm on the next therapist and convinced her that he should have 50/50 custody. Child told me this therapist was trying to guilt him into shared custody by telling child how lonely ex was on his own (his AP was a catfisher and he struck out with real women) and that ex “deserved” 50/50 time. She did this even though OTHER THERAPISTS IN HER OWN PRACTICE had written a safety treatment plan six months earlier stating that ex should only have therapeutic supervised visits, which ex never requested, and since that plan, the court had ordered no contact. I should have reported her, but by the time the court ordered no contact ever, she had switched to another career.
Sadly, all therapists are suspect, particularly when FWs have direct contact with them.
I just want to say why does one person just get to walk away? Just walk out the door and leave all responsibilities, like what gives anyone that right? I think about this often as my ex walked out leaving me with our child, his nephew, a foster child, 3 dogs and two cats. He just walked out.
Firing squad
My practical suggestion is to set up a filter, in whatever mail software you use, to send all his emails into one folder (I mean, trash if you want to, but…). That way you can decide to read them (or not) when you feel prepared, calm etc. If they’re not staring you in the face all the time it’s so much easier. Then it’s entirely your decision. Sorry, I do not know how to do this in any messaging app (dinosaur that I am) butmaybe it’s psossible.
In my experience with #1X cheater 38 years ago..he was a 6ft1 bully and I was5-3″. He would pick up kids at my apartment and stick his size 13 feet in the door, demanding early visits, more visits, bossing me just like he never left for OW! He had us both. The bullying stopped when I got remarried 3 years later. It was like a dog( my apologies to all the dogs on this Planet) peeing on his property and marking it again. My heart just breaks just shreds for all the Chumpions in the universe. It is abject Hell to experience this with anyone and with the heavy responsibility of a special needs child. I can only imagine that horror for life!! My daughter had a learning disability DIAGNOSED by an extreme specialist and this bully DENIED anything was wrong. No matter what I told him. It is over the top. Oh Chumpion and all the others please make every effort to stop direct communication..all of it. The bully has a snarled root system inyo your soul and every word brings you pain and suffering because YOU CARE. Get legal help, shut him down, know your rights and LISTEN to your legal people
They see this everyday. Plug your ears and keep doing each day as mighty as you can. These people are very sick and selfish and unstable. YOU CANNOT HELP HIM AT ALL. He does not respect who you are and is likely incapable of even a Shred of love. I’d give you a ((giant hug))and say a prayer for your days and years ahead. I hope he trips and falls into a vat of people just like himself so he can get a clue..but then, they don’t learn either. Only consequences speak.
I do not understand the need to speak to him if you have sole custody. If you’re doing it to be the bigger person, forget it. It has zero positive impact on him. Being a better, saner, happier person is just something to envy you for and therefore hate you. Stop thinking you can reach a consensus with a wildly irrational person. He obviously needs two therapists as no doubt he wears one out very quickly. He’s a freak. Accept that he is never going to change and that nothing you do or don’t do will make him stop this kind of behavior. You don’t need to tell him jack squat about the kids unless it says so in a court order. You have no moral duty to include this deadbeat MFer either. He does not care about the kids. He only uses them as a cudgel to beat you with. That’s the reality.
I’m sorry you are stuck with one of these super deranged FWs. Mine is much less of a freak and I don’t even talk to him unless I have to.
CoTA says the “therapists” are young women on WhatsApp with zero training. 😂 🤣 😂 🤣
The really funny part is that even THEY could be telling him he’s an ass. It’s not like he’s a reliable narrator. 🤪
“The really funny part is that even THEY could be telling him he’s an ass. It’s not like he’s a reliable narrator.”
EXACTLY! The FW in my story is in therapy. It doesn’t seem to be working, at least not from where I sit. That said, therapy can take time so I try not to judge the therapist here. But your statement stands, who knows what he tells her? He could be leaving out so much, or even completely making up a narrative.
The two types of insights I get into his therapy came from him, so again, grain of salt.
Sometimes he has tried to say that his therapist implied I was in the wrong for x, y or z. My knee jerk reaction was to want to smack this woman. How dare she judge me when she only has his side of the story? But that is the a-ha moment, she only has his side, who knows what he said, and really, who knows if SHE even said that about ME?
Other times it has been made clear that he spends a lot of time talking about his childhood, how rough it was and how that molded him to be who he is. Now I get that FOO issues are a very important and common topic in therapy. But it grinds my gears to picture him sobbing in a chair weekly about how his mommy yelled at him 40 years ago, when he is CURRENTLY terrorizing me and our kids. I didn’t have an easy childhood either, but I am not running around being a monster to those closest to me.
I can’t help but wonmder if he tells her what he does on a weekly basis. Because I tell my therapist the truth, and if I am doing something that doesn’t serve my goals, she calls me out on it.
“Anyone who encourages you to meet abuse with greater vulnerability is a quack.” a quote from someone smart
💯
Chumpion Of Them All:
FWs are like cancer: malignant, relentless, angry, always seeking to destroy, and they’re a real pain in the ass.
The bad news is… you have 100% control and he has 0% so he’s constantly on the lookout for that little slice of unprotected real estate peeking out from your suit of armor. This is what opportunists do.
The good news is… you have 100% control and he has 0% so you’re under no obligation to report in, manage his emotions, listen to his abusive diatribes, justify your decisions, defend yourself, obtain his consent, or even communicate with him unless YOU believe it’s warranted.
I suggest you come up with two or three short, monotonous and robotic responses that you’ll deliver every single time he challenges your parenting, your purpose, your personality, your preferences. Do not, under any circumstances, get into any sort of a pissing contest with him because very likely, he will outmaneuver you every time.
Here are a few examples of what I mean, but create your own so they speak your truth.
* My decision about XYZ is not up for debate. I will not change my mind.
* I did what I think is best about XYZ and I have documentation to back it up/my attorney’s agreement/the doctor’s approval.
* Stop harassing/belittling/arguing/try to stir up trouble with me about XYZ.
* You will not speak to me that way. This conversation is over. Goodbye.
I tried all that and more with my ex.
The bottom line was that my ex wanted to hang the failure of the marriage and anything close by on me when it was 95% him.
I wasn’t sure when my attorney strongly recommended that I go no contact, but he was right. I had to break away from the chaos and get my head straight.
And then I actually did fine during closeout with email-only. My attorney taught me Bill Eddy’s BIFF method, and I learned to defuse the drama. Eventually, my ex let go and stopped contacting me. I became a hard target.
The bottom line is that you will never, ever sway these types. Even if they give in on one issue, they will find another down the road to play you on.
“Eventually, my ex let go and stopped contacting me. I became a hard target.”
I can’t go no contact because of the kids, but I was able to go VERY low contact. And previously we had way too much contact. We were spending time as a family, doing holidays together etc. The problem with that was complex. I was essentially faking this friendship just to keep him from being angry and volatile. That isn’t a friendship, that is a hostage situation. We’d been together decades so it wasn’t entirely fake, I did care about him still on some level, and when he was in a good mood, that time we spent together could genuinely be nice. I think I also convinced myselfthat I was saving something. Not all was lost.
But internally, I still deeply resented everything he had done in the betrayal. So that isn’t that genuine of a friendship, really. And it also just gave him continued access to me. He would still go through his cycle of nice/rage/nice/rage. We’d have a good day, then he’d be set off by something and be awful for two days. Multiple times a week I was put in a scared/unstable/angry/anxious place because he felt entitled to still be a jerk to me, despite me no longer being his wife.
So about 7 months ago, I put an end to all that, told him I would only discuss the kids, no more family outings etc. And I held that boundary.
Now, I get a day of angry texts maybe once a week, sometimes the gap between is longer. Once it went three full weeks. It’s not as satisfying for him because I will not respond to any of it. I imagine with time, the gaps will get longer and at some point it will stop altogether.
It can be hard to not engage because he says infuriating things. “I am a person, I deserve for you to be nice to me” I’m not being MEAN to him, I am simply not engaging at all. And actually where was his consideration for ME beinf a person in the years of abuse and cheating? But I bite my tongue and bide my time. He’ll give up eventually.
I always heard that is is unwise to argue with a fool as bystanders won’t know the difference. I can’t tell for sure who wrote what but in the second post they did both look unhinged. It is good that she recognizes she should never respond to craziness.