Is Cheating Okay If It Ends Up As ‘Love’?
The Cut asks: Is cheating is okay if you end up with the ‘love of your life’? The Friday Challenge is to share the Chump Nation perspective on this question. And — bonus points — let us know how the twu wuv worked out for the Schmoopies.
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All’s fair in love and war.
Right? There are no Geneva Conventions. It’s Twu Wuv by any means necessary. If that includes mate poaching, so be it.
Unless, of course, you’re collateral damage. In which case, this question seems patently moronic. There are ethical ways to end a relationship.
The ever-so-edgy The Cut of New York Magazine asks readers to weigh in. (Click bait! Share your outrage or narcissistic obliviousness here!)
Is cheating okay if you end up with the love of your life?
- Is embezzling pension funds okay if it funds your retirement in the Caymans?
- Is drowning kittens okay if we have a surplus of kittens and it reduces the overall average?
- May I pistol whip an old lady if it results in a personal growth journey for me?
I can do this all day.
Maybe you can too. How did the “Love of Their Lives” experiment go? Reports I get here on Schmoopie twu wuv tend to involve bus tire tracks, judging by all the OW letters I’ve gotten here over the years. (You’re not going to believe this — he LIED to her too!)
Or, they’re still together but fighting over the cost of a Sainsbury bag as they live together in a grotty one-bedroom. Or, Schmoopie left her before the ink was dry on the divorce papers. Or they’re both in an eternal pick me dance, forever hyper vigilant because they both chose cheaters.
I could do this all day.
But it’s your turn. So, is cheating okay if it results in Twu Wuv?
TGIF!
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Treating your committed partner badly by cheating, abandoning, abusing, and a host of other bad behaviors is not what they signed up for. My divorce had what my attorney called the “four A’s”: abuse, abandonment, addiction, and adultery. All that and more.
At the very least, give them a decent divorce if you have found “true love” elsewhere or want to go looking for it. My older attorney said that rarely happens, though, in partners who have bestowed the “four A’s.” Usually, they’re so disordered in their ways that they give their partner a rotten, expensive divorce on top of everything. Yes, that’s why I hired one of the best attorneys in my metropolitan area. He got it done.
I was told by a relative of his some time back that my ex had at last found “true love” after blowing up marriage and family, followed by a bad divorce.
Well, as my bestie likes to say with a bit of snark in this sort of situation, “Good luck with that.”
Ugh
Do the ends justify the means? Is it okay to cheat on a test to improve your grade? If one really thinks they found their perfect match, end the current relationship honestly, like an adult. Not a 16 year-old. This is crap. And as you mentioned, non e of my ex FW’s betrayal objects became real relationships. They all had other betrayal objects, too. There were no engagements, no marriages, mo living together. Just lots of lies on both sides as they all juggle multiple people at one time. Sorry, this does not compute.
Ex-Mrs LFTT’s relationship with her AP predated our relationship; he was married at the time and she was her AP. Their original relationship broke up because they worked for the same organisation, and the organisation made it quite clear that they were to “stop or else ….!” I married now Ex-Mrs (whilst unaware of her history as a Cheater) in the early 90s. I suspect that he always was “the one” as far as she was concerned, as they got together (or at least got caught getting together) after his second marriage failed. They are still together now (10 years+ after they were busted by the kids) and would appear to be happy; I say “appear” because I’ve never met him and I have as little to do with Ex-Mrs LFTT as I possibly can.
Is any of this OK? No …. because their path to the happiness that they believe that they were entitled to caused immeasurable damage to our kids (all three have needed therapy, and two of them were self-h*rming at one point) as well as to myself (enough said). The Ends (happiness) does not justify the Means (lies, deceit, manipulation, theft, cheating, gaslighting etc etc etc).
They would appear to be happy, but I doubt that they ever ask themselves what the cost of that happiness was and who paid it
LFTT
FW and AP, despite being married for years, are still hiding their origin story from the kids so I’d have to say that even *they* don’t believe that their marriage makes it all OK.
All the cheaters I know—or at least the ones I know whose relationships started through cheating—tend to sugarcoat their story.
One acquaintance even showed me, right before their anniversary, this personalized little booklet where their “how we met” story was turned into a cute comic. You know, like they secretly met up, fell for each other, kissed—basically made it all look sweet and innocent.
The former affair partner—now the wife—of another acquaintance’s dad is still going on about how she “rescued” him from his marriage (with two kids!), even decades later. Supposedly, he was just miserable there.
And my own ex-husband? Apparently he “just matured late” and didn’t know what was good for him back then.
But if they didn’t say that there’d be no kibbles!
‘ We cheated, broke up our families and behaved like arseholes ‘ kind of takes the shine off it.
Cheating by definition means to act dishonorably or unfairly. To use deceit, fraud, tricks or break rules to deprive someone of something.
Society generally despises someone who cheats to win a sports competition, steal money or resources, get a better grade, or virtually anything else, except a marriage or committed relationship.
If cheating to gain a partner is OK, what would happen if you extend that? Would it be OK to steal someone else’s kid if you really want one? Or if you want that particular child, who is more attractive, talented or useful than your own? Is it OK to discard or disown your own kids because your interest has shifted?
It’s no coincidence that people who abandon their partners by cheating often abandon their kids, too.
I agree with the last part, even with college kids. So mine were older when Dad hightailed it to the beach for separation #2.
He texted them a handful of times in the first year apart. That was it. Sometimes, when I talked to him on the phone (always painful), he’d tell me to say hello to them or something along those lines. Nothing really meaningful. I had both of them in therapy and had to somehow navigate his neglect in a decent way. Usually, I agreed that he wasn’t acting like a good parent should and redirected.
Then he sent large checks in cards for a while. They asked me what to do. I said, “Cash it, and then whatever you think is best.” I suggested that they buy something fun for themselves and use the rest for school, which they did. He was not helping with college expenses, so it did help in a backhanded way.
Then, finally, after he hadn’t seen them face-to-face or talked to them on the phone in four years, he invited them to visit. I offered to drive them to the airport, or whatever they wanted. They didn’t go.
I dunno, clearly a relationship with them wasn’t a priority, and they were beyond custody age, so there was no legal obligation that I had to facilitate. Naturally, he blamed and gamed with me over that, but I refused to play. We haven’t heard from him in some years now.
Before getting enlightened I had a seriously broken picker. It’s true, I did. 4 relationships 4 cheaters. I felt as though every time I walked into a room I would get a kick in the ass. As I had said broken picker my first relationship was my inauguration to the world of relationship skull surgery. She was indeed pleasing to the eye, nice to most, intelligent in a scholastic way,a sexual firestorm and had all the surface level desirability metrics. Claiming devotion to only me I felt secure trusting her, what a mistake! The three years we spent together came to a crashing end after she spent a weekend her childhood friend’s cabin in Canada. There she apparently met, fell for and consumated a relationship with the soul mate sent from heaven ( Hey Leroy!) they were in love and she was hell bent on living her truth with him. It stung but what would I do? The whirlwind of a relationship culminated with a fabulous wedding and a delusional happy ever after. 3 months later I get a phone call ( this was the late 70’s no Internet no caller ID) and it’s Leroy. A very heartbroken Leroy told me that she had been ( que the serious background music) unfaithful. He wanted to know how I navigated my discovery of their relationship. I had no words of advice but we did become commiserate friends. Fast forward 47 years later. I’m at a 65th birthday party and I’m tapped on the shoulder, low and behold it’s her! With a very frail husband number 4 in tow I was told how great I looked and how the years have been good to me and that we should meet up sometime. Holy hell.. what’s that saying about spots and leopards
Of course, the fact that the cheater ended up meeting the “love of his life” or his “soulmate” does not objectively justify his behavior. But for the person who was cheated on, it can certainly feel that way. It becomes even worse when the cheater is particularly concerned with maintaining his image.
In my case, when everything finally came out, it turned out that over the past few years he had already developed feelings for other women multiple times. Once it was a colleague who lived in another country, and once another colleague who had only been with the company for a few months. At that point, he was already emotionally involved with someone else again and had probably at least started an emotional affair with her—but he kept that from me.
To be fair, I actually believe him that nothing physical happened with the first two. “Soulmate number three” had only started working at the company two months before he discarded me. When an acquaintance of mine ran into the two lovebirds a few months later, the first thing he said was that it had only “developed after the separation.”
So while I feel lied to, devalued, and discarded, my ex is telling himself that he ended the marriage (20 years) in a proper way—and is therefore not a cheater.
Is that really true?
People often say that a cheater should have ended the marriage or relationship before getting involved with someone else. In my case, he technically did that. Does that mean he’s redeemed? Does it mean everything was done fairly and properly—and I just didn’t get the memo that he had already checked out long ago?
By the way, he and “Shmoopie” are still together. They live together, work together, and are raising her child—something he always claimed he never wanted.
My sympathies go out to the child.
If your FW told you they weren’t involved before he broke up with you, he is lying. So no, it isn’t true that he ended it properly. You already know he had emotional affairs before, so the same applies to the one he broke up with you for. He didn’t end it with you just to explore the *possibility* of an involvement with someone else, he did it because he was involved already. He is a serial cheater, whether he had sex with them or not.
Romantically inclined cheaters (as opposed to those who admit it’s just sexual) tend to be the kind of people who “fall in love” often and it never really means jack sh**. It’s just a series of shallow infatuations because they are shallow people. They childishly believe that no matter how often they are proven wrong about finding their soul mate, each time it’s “different” and they have finally found the right person.
My FW thought he had found his twu wuv too. Then suddenly, when she got angry because he admitted the affair after he was caught, she wasn’t his soul mate anymore. Like turning off a light switch. That’s how shallow their feelings are.
So my parents met at work, and cheated on their spouses with each other (I don’t know for how long), before eventually leaving (or being caught? I don’t know this part either). I wasn’t an affair baby – they divorced their spouses, got married, and I was born after that – but it’s still a part of the story of how my parents met. When I was a teenager, my mom talked about it with me, painting it as a somewhat romantic story…her first husband was controlling and wanted her to be a good little housewife, while my dad was so different from him, he was also “trapped” in a bad marriage, with a self-absorbed wife…
At the time I guess I bought it, and didn’t really think about the lies they must both have told, the hurt they caused. They were my parents, and they were (I thought) happy together, so that was that.
My dad ended up cheated on my mom (apparently not the first time) and leaving for a woman at work when I was in my early 20s. Go figure. After that, my mom admitted (not to me, but I heard about it) that there were many times she wanted to leave my dad, but she felt like she had blown up her whole life for this and she needed to make it work to make it worth it.
That sucks, and makes me sad for her, but also…truly, if you’re unhappy, break up first!
If my ex had just broken up with me before she cheated…well, it would have still absolutely sucked, but at least it wouldn’t have had all this other garbage piled on top of the normal breakup suckage! Not only did I have to deal with my marriage ending, but I have to grapple with fun thoughts like “Am I the biggest fool in the world to have not noticed?” and “Are all people lying to me all the time?” and “How can I trust anyone again ever?”, etc.
I guess if I think about it, for some cheaters they justify things like… “I found this other person and I’ve been unhappy for a while and I do want to leave anyway, but I don’t want to blow everything up just in case this thing doesn’t work out so maybe I’ll just keep both going for a while and see how it goes”….but like, holy crap that is just so completely selfish and unfair….how does one get to the point that they feel so entitled to that? That’s what I don’t understand still, I guess.
Yeah, the entitlement of it is a head scratcher. They must think they are extremely special and therefore allowed to coldly, cynically string along and use a good hearted person who loves them as a fail safe in case the new person doesn’t work out. If anybody did that to them they would be outraged.
“I found this other person and I’ve been unhappy for a while and I do want to leave anyway, but I don’t want to blow everything up just in case this thing doesn’t work out so maybe I’ll just keep both going for a while and see how it goes”….
That’s my FW right there. He told me that Mrs. Bendover was the love of his life, and he just wanted to “try her out” before leaving me. If it didn’t work out with her for whatever reason he would stay with me, and I would be none the wiser. The best laid plans etc. etc. Even well after D-Day he wrote that he would not marry her until he found out if she had any skeletons in her closet. I wrote back “She’s 53 years old and you will be husband number six. I can guarantee skeletons in that closet.” Dummkopf proceeded anyway – not to marriage but to my knowledge they are still living together almost five years now. I have no info about their level of happiness.
Sometimes I try to imagine if my ex had just honestly said, “Hey! After several decades together and having just retired, I want to explore my sexuality with different partners. Why don’t we decently divorce so we can go on with our separate lives?”
But of course, it didn’t happen that way. We separated long-distance, and after a year, I refused to reconcile. He continued to be horrid, and then decided he wanted a divorce. Me too. And he promised-promised-promised “quick and easy.” I knew that was a lie and lawyered up accordingly. And it was long, messy, and expensive.
And people wonder why I insisted that closeout be via email and kept it all-business.
I love your statement, “I found this other person and I’ve been unhappy for a while and I do want to leave anyway, but I don’t want to blow everything up just in case this thing doesn’t work out so maybe I’ll just keep both going for a while and see how it goes”….but like, holy crap that is just so completely selfish and unfair” !!!!!!
This is exactly what happened to me. And it is so cowardly.
That’s what happened in my case as well. In fact, FW actually said to me that he couldn’t divorce me because “what if it doesn’t work out with Schmoopie? Then I’ll have nothing.” Looking back, I am ashamed that I didn’t file the next day.
Reminds me of CL’s article, “Men cheat because they love us? WTF?”
Yeah, it’s all good, no biggie!
My cheater never ended up with the AP, an AP who was engaged to or married to someone else the *entire length* of their 3-year affair.
No, his “love of a lifetime” just fell into his lap as a “gift” from God, so he claims far and wide, but immediately after divorce papers were filed (He keeps HOW immediately hidden). In actuality he raced to an online dating site and selected his type, a type same as the AP – a younger, way more vulnerable with lower status Asian woman. He aggressively pursued her, with hardly a thought to having destroyed our 29-year-marriage and 2 hurting adult kids.
Since he went on image management steroids after I separated from him, he is STILL a leader in cross-cultural ministry in his now-wife’s country. And he is smugly writing in newsletters all the time that his new wife is his Twu Luv, there was no love/no ministry partnership like theirs in the history of the world. He is still enamored with her now, but that can only last so long with the disordered. She will soon realize the pick-me dancing she must do, and that she, too, will need to get tested for STDs when she goes for check-ups.
Sometimes at least all the 6 cheaters plus that I know, are still together. I just don’t care how happy they are, I just don’t want them in my space
Agreed! I love how they’re all the way across the world from me now.
Did his new great love justify his cheating? Absolutely not. And I hope more and more of his supporters realize this fact, and see how slimy he is.
I saw this the other day and a lot went through my mind. I saw that Tracy had already beaten me to the embezzlement analogy which is what sprang first to my mind, so I didn’t leave a comment.
Unsurprisingly, people cool with cheating will say yes. People who have empathy, are sincerely kind, are principled, ethical, safe, and trustworthy, and have a moral compass in good working order will say no (and act accordingly). What does surprise me is cheater/side piece outrage when they get a taste of what they dish out.
Ultimately it’s best if birds of a feather flock together, and I appreciate any way the flocks can be identified in the wild. So while cheating (abusing, defrauding, holding someone hostage, depriving someone of informed consent, etc) is wrong, it does result in a match of like minds. I have no desire to be a low value intimate partner or be with one.
So, no, it’s not okay. And lots of things that are not illegal are not okay.
To cheat or to be a side piece is to not understand what love is. And if you believe people who participate in illicit relationships have good relationship skills, are safe, are trustworthy, and are a good choice for an intimate partner, I am sure there is nothing I can say that will change your mind.
At the end of the day, IMHO cheating and being a side piece are the biggest red flags in the known universe, so it’s ultimately for the best that those who see them as green stick with each other.
♥️
Anything that is built on a foundation of lies is not love and will never stand the test of time.
Anything that comes about from hurting others and hiding the truth from them is not love.
Love is not for the weak, the coward or the liar.
Love is not a movie, a feeling a means of obtaining kibbles or a tool to control.
Love is not abuse .
My older attorney said something similar to your first line. He celebrated his 40th anniversary during my divorce process. His wife was the firm’s business manager. They were so cute together.
He assured me many times that in situations like mine, they are incapable of truly loving, lasting romantic relationships.
I just learned that Monty Don (English Gardener extraordinaire) and his wife started as an affair. I am gutted. She was married and he ‘didn’t care he just knew she was the one for him.” He was friends with the husband but ‘always hoped she would leave him.” Ugh.
I’m not surprised. I always felt something was a bit off about him.
Of COURSE true love makes it ok!
They were soulmates, and I was in the way of his happiness. Our children would be better off if he were happy. Away he went with his soulmate. For two years. And then guess what? Another BETTER soulmate showed up and after a few months of cheating, off he went with soulmate 2.0.
Fast forward two years, and he was off with another woman. And then another. And another. I get reports from my now-adult kids and occasionally a DM from soulmate #1 where we chat about what a lying shithead he was.
Are we talking about grown adults here, or are we talking about teenagers? I would say there’s a big difference because teenagers are immature and pretty much any romantic relationship is fairly transient. The idea that an adult man in his 60’s could trade in his faithful wife for a hot young babe, presents an entirely different ethical model.
Cheating in marriage is always wrong, full stop.
From what came out during the divorce process, my retired STBX favored needy older women. He needed women whom he could charm with a false narrative and who would remain under his control in certain respects.
Well, not me then.
Is it “okay”? No. You did a shitty thing in pursuit of something selfish. That it turned out well for (selfish) you does not erase the shittiness. The least you can do is make what amends you can and accept being tarred with the “cheater” brush (though most cheaters seem to refuse to take accountability on this level and would rather keep trying to push blame back onto the partner they betrayed).
Beyond that, people who perceive an external locus of control are going to be liabilities forever, because their commitments are only as good as their perceptions of how other people/factors are “making” them feel at any given time. The twu wuv is only as twu as the cheater feels it is.
My cheater and schmoopie are married with two kids. I’m about 3.5 years out now and have mostly hit meh. I stopped giving him supply years ago — he’s complained about my “robotic” responses. The parenting order excludes schmoopie from conversations about my children.
They, however, are bound and determined to keep me engaged by screwing with my children. Doesn’t strike me as the actions of people who are living lives of soulmate bliss. So… is it “true love”? Was it worth the harm they’ve caused to me and my children? Don’t know, don’t care, but also doubt it.
Apparently they require triangulation (using your kids as proxies) to keep their relationship spicy. Sounds like all is not roses in twu wuv land.
Any update on the longitudinal study conducted by well-credentialed Chump from this site? It would be interesting to get real data on infidelity.
A billion” romance” cheating movies pay for the happily ever after to serve up to the swooning audiences. I was watching Billy Crystal in Forget Paris..happily enjoying the love story when bam..Debra Winger says…but, but I’m.married and I can’t make up.my mind!! This is after trips all over Paris and wild sex..
she spouts about her uncertainty and tells her unaware but now aware Chump..to think about HER FEELINGS as a cheater, not his chumpy heart. They did get married but had alot of struggles, so more realistic then movies that end at the wedding.
Yes my #1 ex is still with his OW- wife 38 years later. And my #2 Ex is telling mutual former friends he is happier than ever…but the key here is, who cares if they are happy?? I’ve had their best younger years- and 2 beautiful kids squeezed out of their abusive lies. Let the OW age out with them and deal with prostates/ bladder issues/ creepy stares and aging sagging limp body parts.
Just believing and knowing that neither Ex cared about me and could not love me, frees me to still love men, but from a distance of miles away.
I may never know if they found the love of their lives in each other’s embrace of stolen kisses, but I lost the most horrible liars of my life and that is enough for me.
Without trust and true love, I had nothing anyway.
I don’t believe for a second that it’s ever “true” love for cheaters, since their entire operating system is set on “false.” False words, false promises, false intentions, false personas, false realities. So the whole premise of the question is, well… false.
💯%
I’m gonna go ahead and say, no, which certainly will not be a surprise to anyone.
My ex had an “exit affair“ and ended up marrying the other woman. I’m sure those idiots would have said it was all worth it for true love. They were married for less than a year before getting divorced, and the other woman bought my ex out of the marital home for $10, potentially as part of an inequitable fault divorce settlement.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer couple!
Ten bucks? Is that a typo or was he that desperate to get rid of her?
Not a typo! I did a double-take when I saw that. It’s what attorneys would call a “peppercorn.” I don’t know enough to speculate further, but something weird definitely happened.
Even if it was okay to cheat for alleged love, the cheater and AP didn’t know when they started the affair that it would end up being twu wuv. It’s not like they met and immediately knew this was a love for the ages.They started the affair for the same reasons other cheaters and APs who don’t claim to have found twu wuv do; illicit thrills, ego fuel, etcetera, ad nauseum.
But it ultimately wouldn’t matter even if they fell in wuv the moment they met (never actually happens, but sometimes people think they have) because motivation is not a mitigating factor if a deed is deemed to be harmful and wrong.
Cheater love isn’t worth the Valentine’s card paper it’s written on anyway. It exists only if it continues to be convenient to the cheater, then vanishes into the ether if it becomes inconvenient. For example, who ever heard of a cheater tenderly nursing a dying partner or sticking it out through a non-fatal chronic illness that affects the cheater’s lifestyle. Won’t happen.