Is Porn Addiction Infidelity?

Xmas9

She wants to know if her husband’s porn addiction is infidelity? Can she leave him over his compulsive sexual behavior, even if it’s just with a computer? Is porn cheating?

***

Dear Chump Lady,

I asked my porn addicted husband to leave 4 months ago.

He is living in our RV a few miles from the house. I have been a chump for 8 very long years and now I find myself in a terrible position. When I married him 14 years ago, I thought I had vetted this guy well. I was a divorcee with an alcoholic ex and a 4 year old son.

We dated for two years and I had to get an annulment so we could marry in the Catholic Church. I asked all the right questions. My mistake was believing him. I even asked about porn and he assured me that he found porn disgusting and would NEVER hurt his wife that way. He came from an intact family, mom and dad well liked and very involved with the church. I got my annulment and we married. I agreed to quit my career and stay home to raise my 4 year old. We had 4 children over the next 6 years.

I caught him masturbating to porn when I was 8 1/2 months pregnant with child #3. He swore it was stress and his first time and he was sorry. He went to the priest and confessed his sins. Hmmm. Then of course, I caught him again and again and again.

I went through the “oh honey let me help you” stage. The take the kids and leave for a week stage. The throw the computer out and get rid of cable stage. The screen EVERY SINGLE movie we rented for nudity or sexy scenes stage. The acting like a hooker in the bedroom stage. And on and on it went until I read every Patrick Carnes, Schaumburg, Marsha Means book available.

I told no one. I kept it as my shame and secret.

God knows I tried to help him to stop. But, in the end this old girl could not look like a Nympho Teen. Or a Slutty Teen. Or a beautiful 16 or 17 year old girl. I was not enough. He has never admitted to anything physical, but my instinct says different. I always caught him. Then he would “try” recovery.

I am 53 and have 5 children, 4 of whom are still at home and I am homeschooling them. I have not been employed in the workforce for 14 years. The last time I caught him, I told him he would have to leave. He was a police officer and within two months lost his job. We now have no health insurance and I doubt he will be able to get a job as an officer again. He has not been very forthcoming about why he lost his job after 5 years of decorated service and a promotion to detective. But I can make an educated guess.

My question is this: I realize that all of you have had husbands or wives who have had physical or emotional affairs. But this porn feels just as bad I think. I am so hurt and I do not love him anymore and have told him that. I have told him I will NEVER live with him again, but he comes over 3 times a week to eat dinner that I cook, with the kids. So I have to sit there and eat the shit sandwich and smile while my kids are so happy to see daddy.

I still am a chump.

I can’t divorce because he has no job and no way to pay child support. So, I walk around like a zombie. I love my children and do not want them hurt. I believed him everytime he said he would change. What to do? How do I stop with the hopium? How do I extricate myself from this man? He says he will NEVER give me a divorce. I would have to rely on the state legal aid to try to get a divorce. I have no family here.

As a side note, his father has been found to have been molesting three of my husband’s sisters’ daughters. This shit runs in the family. His mom knew, just never said anything. Am I wrong for feeling like this porn addiction is infidelity? He says it is not infidelity and that he loves me and that I am his “soulmate” and he will never let me go. Then he says there are two sides to him — the good guy and the “deceiver.” And he has lied so much to me I can’t believe anything he says, but he brings me hot coffee in the morning and my favorite sandwich for lunch.

He makes me sick.

Why am I stuck being a chump? I am trying to get away but I can’t seem to get out.

Hopeless Chump

***

Dear Hopeless Chump,

Let’s put aside the porn question for a moment and start with the four-alarm fire of Grandpa is a child molester. Secret sexual basements (see the work of Dr. Omar Minwalla) seem to run in the family — and that is ENOUGH to run screaming for the hills. Get your kids some therapy now — direct yourself to local social services, whatever you have to do. Find out if they’ve been abused by their grandfather and get them some help, ASAP.

It seems to me that your husband liking to jerk off to pictures of underage “slutty 16 year old” girls is not a coincidence. You were a vulnerable single mom when you met him? And now you’ve got five kids? And he grew up with a child molester for a father? I don’t like this fact pattern one bit.

The behavior you’re describing sounds dark and compulsive and you’ve given this guy umpteen chances. It doesn’t sound as if you feel safe with him, understandably with the mysterious job loss and porn obsession that interferes with his ability to be a normal partner.

Make an escape plan with the help of a professional.

Your economic vulnerability is a solvable problem. Making your husband someone you could ever feel safe with, is not. Please reach out to support services to help you make an escape plan.

He doesn’t control you divorcing him. He can express his displeasure to the judge. Sure, he can try and make things difficult, which is why you don’t tell him what you’re doing — you just DO IT. I’m sure whomever awards custody would be interested to hear about his compulsive sexuality and Grandpa’s molestation. Demand custody and supervised visitation.

After that — quit homeschooling. You need to free yourself up to get back in the workforce. And if the kids need counseling, the best place to get it might be the school counselor who can make referrals and set something up. Especially with this drama and dad in the RV, the kids need a safe haven that isn’t home life. And you need the independence that comes with a job.

Is porn addiction infidelity?

Now to the question you wrote me about. It doesn’t matter what I think about porn addiction as infidelity, or science thinks, or Christian evangelicals think, or charlatan sex addiction therapists like Patrick Carnes think — what matters is what YOU think. If this is a deal breaker for you, then it’s a deal breaker for you. You’re not compatible. Your values don’t match. He’s not the man for you. Look, he’s not the man for ANYONE seeing as he’s very fucked up and admits to being a “deceiver.” So start putting a plan in action to divorce.

I don’t feel qualified to give you my opinion of porn, because I’m a middle-aged woman and I still think of Playboy magazines. Looking at salacious pictures isn’t cheating IMO. I think for some people it spices up their sex lives, and some folks are more wired to be turned on visually. I worry about shaming people about sexuality or masturbation, which is totally healthy and normal.

When porn is a problem…

However, the accessibility, affordability and anonymity of porn have radically changed in the Internet age. This is an enormous topic — what porn has done to how we have sex, how women feel they need to conform to some hyper-sexualized ideal, and what that means for human intimacy.

Computer images don’t have feelings. Or needs. A real flesh and blood woman in a pick-me dance with 24/7 porn is not in a fair fight. It’s an absurd competition.

And this relationship, like any relationship with a cheater, doesn’t bring out your best self. When you find yourself policing your partner’s behavior (wrangling where the dick is today and what it’s up to…), it’s over.

Who wants a porn addict as a partner?

So why should any woman compete for the dubious honor of a porn addict’s attention? Don’t we deserve better than a partner who goads us into competitions? Whether with flesh and bone affair partners, or pixelated ones? A porn addict prefers sex without intimacy. Escapism over real life. It makes total sense to reject these people as partners. Heck, they don’t have the raw materials to be partners.

And I hope this goes without saying, but if the porn is child porn? If the fetish is underage girls and boys? You call the cops. Period.

(If anyone wants to jump on me for civil liberties and presumed innocence — I’d prefer to let the law enforcement professionals make that call. My sympathies are with the victims of sex trafficking and sexual abuse.)

Hopeless Chump, your situation is not hopeless, it’s just hard. Please take the first step — call legal aid — and get on the road to your new life.

Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

188 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago

Hopeless, I agree with everything CL says, but I’d add a couple more things– with the comment your STBX said about never letting you go (and his having been a cop), be careful. That kind of talk, his always being around, delivering you food, something about it raises my alarm bells that he might get out of hand when you file for divorce and enforce some boundaries. Discuss that with a lawyer too and maybe a woman’s abuse hotline or shelter, and have a plan for that.

And yes, with your STBX liking young girl porn and your FIl a child abuser, I’d run for the hills with the kids metaphorically speaking, get the kids counseling, try to get supervised visits. Someone needs to have some conversations with your kids about what might’ve happened with dad or FiL, I’d vote for having a professional do it. I know what it feels like to wonder how much of a “deceiver” my ex really was. It is a sickening sinking feeling. If you have access to his computer, I’d take a good hard look at it or have someone knowledgeable do it, and then lock it down and secure it till this is “over.”

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago

Oh and hopeless, my ex was “addicted” to porn, but it didn’t stop there- he was simultaneously having multiple affairs, group sex, etc. I don’t know but I personally doubt that most of these guys stop in the virtual world — do grown adult males really feel satisfied with online porn in the kong run? I personally doubt it. To me it’s like him saying he only had an emotional affair….as CL says, that’s not generally how grown adults roll. My ex didn’t. But it doesn’t really matter now, does it? He has profoundly broken your marital bond.

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Hopeless Chump, I agree with Kelly….he has plenty of room to arrange all kinds of meetups, seeing as he’s unsupervised in that trailer. If your gut is telling you it’s physical also, then you’re probably right. There are a plethora of websites, apps, etc. to help people get instant hookups, it’s pretty easy nowdays.

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago

….long run….

movin_on
movin_on
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

I liked kong, better…it made me giggle (b/c I am the gypo queen…see what I did there?!)

Srsly, I’ve been enforcing boundaries with my ex, who is not an ex-cop, and he’s not taking it well. Sound advice you gave above, Kelly.

Danabern7
Danabern7
10 years ago
Reply to  movin_on

Or “dong run”‘LOL

Nord
Nord
10 years ago
Reply to  Danabern7

I was thinking ‘dong run’ as well. 🙂

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
10 years ago

You don’t want to divorce because he can’t pay child support?? That doesn’t make sense to me. Is he paying you money right now? If he’s paying now, then he can continue to pay after the divorce. If he isn’t contributing right now? Then it’s no loss, you’re no worse off.

I’d argue you’ll be a lot better off. You can stop making those sandwiches for him (why do you do this?), and stop being the Porn Police.

Remember that porn is different than it used to be. It used to be just dirty mags and videos. Now thanks to the internet, people can send personal messages, get dirty panties in the mail, call them, instant message them, email them, and have pseudo-relationships with webcam girls/guys. The customers often believe they’re in actual relationships. They are often EAs, from the customer’s perspective. So is it “just porn”?

My ex was a cop, also….and I find it weird that you don’t know the reason he was let go. I’m betting his conduct was out of line, somehow. My ex wasn’t let go, but he got into trouble a few times at work because of out-of-line things he did and said.

Heed CL’s advice – see an attorney. But don’t tell your jackoff-husband. Just go by yourself and find out your rights. Many attorneys do free initial consults.

donwit
donwit
10 years ago

I have a comment about the home schooling. I am a home schooling mom who has lived both in the US and Canada and there are few in this group that I know of.

Depending on the ages of your kids, your home schooling support group and your work background, you may be able to continue home educating your children if that is a priority – but – you will have to have a good support group and you will have to figure out how to juggle earning a living while having the kids learn outside the public system.

A few of us do it – some with older kids, some with younger kids – always with a support group around us. Not sure how you can ask questions if that’s what you want to do, but do what is best for you and your kids….and that includes putting them in school at least temporarily if you have no other option.

Young Crone
Young Crone
1 month ago
Reply to  donwit

I have worked from home since before my divorce. I actually STARTED homeschooling when we separated. Because I worked from home it was easier than grueling school schedules. It may still be an option, but ONLY if it’s best for everyone involved. My youngest was homeschooled until 7th grade and he is now thriving in a private Christian school, many of which will offer scholarships and discounts. There are many options. It’s the mindset we have when we have been abused for years that tells us we’re stuck with the FW.

Mehphista
Mehphista
10 years ago

Pick up your babies and run. The unknown is scary, we get that.

But an unknown life, where your kids might be exposed to Dad showing his true colors, as opposed to a fifty-fifty secnario where one of them gets abused/becomes a sexual abuser themselves?

You do the math.

Run.

notyou
notyou
10 years ago

Porn and any discussion of it is a Pandora’s box. Beliefs about porn range from one extreme to the other and every “tweaked” nuance in between. Debates will rage for years.

But YOUR reality is this: YOU must live in the here and now; and since his use of porn is and will remain a deal breaker for you, then you are forced ( whether you like it or not) to make hard choices..

Why? Because when we sacrifice our personal values in the name of ” love”, we remain in a state of cognitive dissonance that keeps us miserable until some resolution is achieved.

When we refuse to acknowledge and deal with reality, we live in a limbo of, ” What If’s.” As a child I would sometimes try to negotiate with my father about some parental decision he’d made. I’d put out my very best, “BUT-IF” arguments. He had a famous response…….
“If a frog had hip pocket, he could carry a pistol to shoot snakes, too.”

Your reality is that you don’t have a hip pocket and your husband either cannot or will not get rid of his “snakes.”

Your husband has made his decision.

Now it is your turn.

Kat
Kat
10 years ago
Reply to  notyou

Beautiful response notyou!

lindadanette
lindadanette
10 years ago

Hopeless Chump, you are not really hopeless, your husband is. The likelihood of him being anything other than what he is now is zip to none. I agree with CL and the others, you know in your heart what is true about this man, and you would never forgive yourself if his shadow side decides to repeat the family tradition. You need help, and even though it looks impossible right now, those calls you make to a domestic violence hotline will point you in the direction you need to go. There is help for women in our situation, but making the call is the first step. Do NOT discuss any of it with your husband. This is your escape plan – you already know that you cannot stay. Sending love and hope from the other side. I’m 2 1/2 years out from D-Day and a month after my divorce. It gets so much better. Trust that he sucks enough to do whatever it takes to protect your babies and have the life you deserve.

Missy
Missy
10 years ago

The first time I walked in to see my exnarc masturbating on my bed, (dating at that time, and while he was ‘sick’) I approached it with an open mind. It ‘told’ me that he was sexual and since I am too, I thought that would be good. However, from that very moment on there was always a small “niggling” reminder in my mind….to pay attention….

And I did. But also, as our relationship went forward, we never really bonded emotionally in a sexual way…because (after 18 long years)….he couldn’t be intimate with me really. I would find his porn habits, and talk to him about it. I AM NO PRUDE. I tried to weave it into our life….I went along….I did all I could to not make it an issue but actually build a better sex life. BUT….the hiding of it, the long, long absences of our own lovemaking (while he of course continued to beat off whenever and wherever he could)….He always had an excuse for why he wasn’t “INTO” our lovemaking at the moment (job stress, busy, blah, blah, blah). But the patterns made themselves known to me actually very easily.

After many years, I started to just turn away to it…by then we had a real life, a child, houses, businesses…However, did it fuck up my entire sense of my own desirability? YES….for years and years. I’m a very confident woman. I’m successful, very pretty and never ever have had trouble connecting with men and having them notice me. But this issue….cut at the heart of our life together. And HE was never ever willing to admit that, fix it, understand the corrosiveness of it on our entire marriage and life.

This is what I have a problem with in terms of accepting porn or not. I did…and had no big issue with it. But combining his narcness, with his porn addition that substituted for our love life and intimacy…he ruined our life together.

But really, in the end, it was not his porn, it was his narcissism that broke us. If you read the annals of narcissism you will see that most narcs prefer masturbation. Which makes perfect sense of course. Its all about him, and always will be. But the red flags were there from the VERY BEGINNING. I just did not want to know it.

JustSaying
JustSaying
10 years ago
Reply to  Missy

Missy,

Thanks so much for that.

I’m dealing with a cerebral narcissist, and with them, it’s ALL about them, ALL about masturbation, which they don’t even like but do because they NEED to, and not at all about anything else.

Mine has been a big porn addict for years. He can’t or won’t get it up for me. He’s highly intelligent, as most narcs are, yet the only way he can get it up for a woman is if she’s very young and a total skank… the opposite of what his preferences would seem to be in a life partner… but then, it’s taken 20 years for me to figure out that the only life partner he wants or has ever really had is himself. It’s ALL about him. It’s ALL about getting his rocks off for whatever short-term release it serves for him.

In fact, he hates women, and that’s why he has no problem paying girls with money and/or goods (shoes, cars, etc.) to suck his dick and get him off in whatever ways he feels like.

It occurs to me now, as I read your account that, while men are visual, and I’m certainly not a prude and have theoretically never had any problem with porn… if porn is an obsession, and is the central thing in a guys sex life, which does not interact with his REAL sex life, THAT is when it is a problem.

I mean, you could incorporate certain things in the porn world with your own sex life… and that would be fun. But when it is the be-all, end-all, and you only want objects around you to reflect that two dimensional world back to you for your own pleasure, not for the pleasure of the two of you as a couple… that’s where it gets bad.

It’s easy to see this now, actually, and answers a lot of my own questions about my husband and his situation.

Preya
Preya
10 years ago
Reply to  Missy

Missy,
Wow! Sad and well-written. I’m sorry you endured this.

Hopeless Chump
Hopeless Chump
10 years ago

Thanks for the replies and advice. To clarify, I filed a police report on FIL as soon as I found out what he had done. It is still under investigation. That really pissed the entire family off. Too bad. My husband took all computer hard drives when he left and had them erased. I have talked to an attorney who told me that in this state viewing porn is not illegal, even showing it to your children provided they are your legal children, is also not illegal. I know what kind of porn he was looking at because at DDAY #2 I did a recovery of the hard drive and stopped at 16,000 photos. I saw what he was looking at, and it was not child porn as in toddlers or preteen, It was child porn as in teens 13-17. He found his fathers hardcore porn stash when he was 9 and that is what started the ball rolling so to speak. The attorney also advised that if I got a job now, he would never get one, and I would not only have to split custody, I would have to pay him child support. I do not have enough evidence (yet) to compel the court to limit or order supervised visitation. The thought of leaving my young daughters with him alone is terrifying to me. He swears that is not his “bent”. He told me he swears he would “never touch his little angels.” I told him “Sure, but they don’t have breasts yet. You might think differently then, and I can’t take that chance'”
Yes , he is somewhat supporting us. He went down and got us all on the dole. He is working “odd” jobs and has a sales job of some sort with commission.

My children never spent time alone with their Grandpa. He used to touch me subtley and inappropriately for years. I was afraid he would do that to my girls, so I never let them spend the night or stay alone with him. I told my MIL and my husband what he was doing. I even confronted him about it when we had an “intervenvtion” about his porn use, that was destroying his marriage to my mil. She always said she thought he was innapropriate with the young granddaughters, but was so cowed by him and he is so subtle that it is hard to point it out. He would just say she had a “dirty mind” and that ” did she want him to go to jail? Because that is what would happen if she continued to say such things.” Finally, after my husband SAW what he did to me, and did NOTHING, I filed an assault report. Yeah, that went over real well. Turns out he was doing that to 2 other DILs besides me. My husband warned his whole clan of what I had done, and to stymie the investigation. Don’t answer the phone, don’t talk to any investigator ect.

I am so afraid. I am pretty well paralyzed at this point. I know this is frustrating for others to read this, because they see a way out and I am too afraid to do it. My own father warned me to be very careful because ex cops can be dangerous when their wives decide to divorce. My dad has met my H and has told me to please be very very careful. He has never hit me, but he has a yelling and stomping around temperment that frightens the kids. I feel like such a loser. I can’t seem to do the right thing. I am still being a chump. I hope that by reading success stories here I can get the damn fire under my ass to do what I know in my heart I have to do. These kids love their dad. They will never forgive me if I divorce him. Just making him move out has caused them so much pain. I need to go “no contact”, but I don’t know how to accomplish that with 4 children in the house and my worries about him with my daughters.

Thanks Chumplady for posting my story. If anything, I hope it helps others see the absolute damage caused to a marriage by porn. It has ruined my life. It has wrecked who I thought I was, and I realize my whole marriage has been a farce. I married a con man. A pathological lying POS. Oh, he is in “recovery” again. Sexual sobriety, 12 step, accountability partners, therapist……………. YAWN. BTDT more times than I can count. He swears he is gonna “get me back.”

ThreeTimesAChump
ThreeTimesAChump
1 month ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

Sorry, Hopeless Chump, but you seem to be very self-centered and missing the point here. As an afterthought you mentioned that Grampy is a confirmed child sexual predator, and that Daddy’s porn is kiddie porn. You are completely missing the problem here. Talking about whether porn is cheating, about kids missing their step/father, not reporting pedo-grampy for molesting girls, until others didn’t care that he inappropriately touched you?! This guy is extremely dangerous to your children, especially the girls, and certainly to you, as well. He has probably already sexually abused your daughters. This is one sick family, and you are not seeing how sick and dangerous it is. Wherever your family is, you need to disappear with your five children, and get a restraining order on this pedo. He has made threats to you, as well. You need a much better lawyer. This is the kind of guy that kills the (divorcing) wife, gets his cop buddies to cover it up, and/or frames you and gets custody, and/or kills your kids to get back at you, and/or rapes all of your kids and threatens them to keep quiet or he’ll kill their mother. You are supposed to be the parent that protects your kids. They don’t know that daddy is a rapist pedo abuser. It doesn’t matter that you think that they will miss him. Maybe you should try being honest with them, so that they have a chance to be informed and armed.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
1 month ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

Your kids will forgive you for the divorce, given time. They will not forgive you if you knew of their father’s predilection for teen porn and you didn’t protect them.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

My husband did not touch my daughter until she was a teen.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

X husband. I so trusted him

LivingMYlife
LivingMYlife
10 years ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

You married a “con man!!!” Hello! What makes u think he wouldnt touch his “little angels?” How can u believe ONE word that comes out of his mouth? Look at his actions! Listen to your natural instincts! You are scared for yourself, but think of your children’s safety. Abused kids will NEVER tell unless they can get away to safety. Home schooling may be your thing, but if something wrong is going on, the can’t Tell anyone. This is not just a porn issue! This is a mom trying to get out of denial of what is happening or what could happen. Get them out! Please.

vinnie
vinnie
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

CL is right (as usual). When I saw the headline (is porn infidelity?) I was thinking prude. Porn can be harmless, even shared with your spouse (not something I’m into, but to each their own). It’s harmful when it is preferred to the real thing though.

But this is not a porn problem. This seems like a pedophilia, sex crime problem. Yes, porn is only a symptom here. RUN RUN RUN. And my God the family courts are horrible.

Jade
Jade
10 years ago
Reply to  vinnie

Hopeless Chump, I have a hard time believing it’s legal to show a child pornography of any kind. I’m not so sure you are getting good legal advice. Check with another attorney, and make sure he/she hears about your husband’s father too. That sort of information must have some relevance in a custody hearing.

KarenE
KarenE
10 years ago

Hopeless, I so feel for the horrible situation you are in.

I think porn is like any other pleasurable behaviour (drinking, gambling, recreational substances, food …) Many people can use it ocassionally and have fun with it, and some people really become addicted. And porn has increased its addiction potential by a TON over the past couple of decades; so easily accesible, so specific to people’s kinks, so low-cost, in terms of both money and investment in a relationship.

So what’s important here is that your husband is ADDICTED. The swearing to stop but not stopping? Addiction. The lying? Addiction. The seeing what it’s doing to his wife and marriage, but still not stopping? Addiction.

And you’ve tried all the steps the non-addicted partner can try. They haven’t worked. Time to detach from this addict.

BTW, ‘teen’ porn is legally CHILD PORN. You can totally denounce this to authorities, and probably should, based on what you found after DD#2. Don’t forget that girls were abused to make the porn he watches, or at least their photos are being shared by sceevy people without their knowledge – this is in violation of their rights.

The lawyer you spoke to sounds like they are thinking of your hopefully-soon-to-be-ex as a ‘normal’ person who would get ‘normal’ custody and conditions. Child porn will TOTALLY stop that in its tracks.

Your best bet would be to talk to a domestic violence hotline, and get local info on counselling, support and SAVVY lawyers. Not garden-variety lawyers, you need the one who can handle this kind of case and get this creep away from you and your kids.

The kids adore the father they THINK they have – the one they actually have is a creep. Supervised visitation would be the safest thing for them. While they may be devastated by having less contact with their father in future, that is TOTALLY on him; he could have avoided this, but chose not to. And it will do them MUCH more damage over time to see you continuing to eat shit sandwiches and giving in to a selfish addict. Is this the example of adult life you want to give them? Of how much respect they should have for themselves when someone is treating them badly? Of what a marriage should be like?

It sounds like one of the barriers to action for you is the total confusion in the face of the reality of your situation. I know so well how that feels! How could this be happening? How could my apparently great life have gone down the drain this way? One thing that helped me was to keep reminding myself of the REALITY of my current situation, and that I had to deal with that REALITY, not what should have, could have been, what I thought I had but didn’t ….

ChutesandLadders
ChutesandLadders
10 years ago

If he is looking at child porn, you have a responsibility to report it to the police immediately so they can lock down the computers and protect you from having it turned around and pinned on you. Sadly, there is a stigma about parents who home school their children, and this situation will make you look very bad in the eyes of a judge, especially if your husband goes bonkers and does everything in his power to keep you down. Contacting the detectives would also give you an automatic restraining order. I know it sounds harsh, but you are dealing with a very scary man; someone who lost his job in law enforcement and has openly admitted to being deceptive, but “loves” his kids. Red flags everywhere.

It’s a harsh reality, but men who are in law enforcement know all the tactics that will make you look really bad, and may even pin the child porn on you. Don’t wait for that to happen.

You are in a very difficult position, but with some planning and information from people who know what they’re doing and what you’re going through, you will be able to feel as though you are finally doing something to take back control of your life and protect your children. Perhaps a priest in a different parish could also help you through this ordeal. I would not trust the priest who heard your husband’s confession and did not offer couples counseling.

You have all of us routing for you. The first step is hard, but you can do it.

lindadanette
lindadanette
10 years ago

This. This. This!!!!

“He’s the engineer of his train. And he’s not about to look back and see what he’s dragging behind him. He’s just going to keep going furiously forward, ever forward.
And as long as you stay on his tracks, you’re going to keep getting hit by him.

If you really love your abuser—if it’s really and truly about him rather than you—then leave him. (And I know that’s not as easy as it sounds: see Seven Reasons.) All you can do for him—the very best you can do for him—is to stop playing such a vital supporting role in the terrible movie of his life. It’s not likely that he’ll ever hear the voice of goodness inside of him: he’s too committed to his chaotic cacophony for that. But if he has any chance of ever hearing that voice, he’ll only do so when, all around him, it’s suddenly become very quiet.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/2014/02/your-abuser-cant-know-himself-like-you-know-him/

Uniquelyme
Uniquelyme
10 years ago
Reply to  lindadanette

lindadanette – Thank you for posting this. I just bought the book cited on the link you provided, “Seven Reasons Why Women Stay in a Relationship,” and would have read the entire book but I have to go to work. I’ve enjoyed his blog in the past and just forgot about John Shore, the author!

Excellent read for anyone here putting up with physical and emotional abuse:
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Reasons-Women-Abusive-Relationships/dp/1475245971/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391686668&sr=1-4&keywords=john+shore

panama63
panama63
10 years ago

Hopeless, please FOLLOW this advice from CL. Is sound, makes sense. Follow it 100%. Please. Empower yourself and your kids. There is a way out, always.

Janey
Janey
10 years ago

Sorry but porn isn’t ok its degrading to women -(and men for that matter).

Have you ever seen the typical porn men watch these days?

Would you really want to have two or three men ejaculate on your face? whilst calling you a whore and a slut because that is most definitely ‘not’ modelling a healthy or normal sexual intimacy!

Also (speaking from a spiritual perspective)-Pornography (even soft pornography) causes dark forces to be invoked because it involves a deliberate desecration of the human archetype.

People who are involved in this access cosmic evil as it involves and celebrates a desecration- an animalistic debasement of the female form and human sexuality.

notyou
notyou
10 years ago
Reply to  Janey

Thank you, Janey,

You may enjoy this…

“Why I stopped watching porn: Ran Gavrieli”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJ_QfP2mhU

The man does a superb job of deconstructing arguments for any redeeming value in porn.

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
10 years ago
Reply to  Janey

Your last two sentences — absolutely true. I wish more people understood this.

Lili Bee
Lili Bee
10 years ago

CL, you wrote: ”
Back to porn — if you want my opinion here it is — in moderation, I don’t have a problem with porn. I don’t think looking at naughty pictures is cheating. I think for some people it spices up their sex lives, and for men, it’s just something most of them do. As much as it might skeeve some of us out, and our own sexuality might not be wired that way, some people enjoy it. Okay.

But here is my problem with porn — and spending huge amounts of time in virtual worlds PERIOD — it’s escapism. When porn warps your idea of what actual sex with real people is like, when you prefer the fantasy over the authentic, when you demand that real life mirror porn life — you have a problem with connection and intimacy. Pin-up photos don’t have needs. They stay glossy and perfect no matter how many times you jerk off to them. No real person can compete with a fantasy, whether that’s an affair or a porn site.

So if someone spends an inordinate amount of time with porn — my take away is that this person prefers sex without intimacy. They prefer escapism over real life. That tells me a lot about their character and what kind of partner they’d be.”

The hugely under-reported problem with porn is that it is NOT just ‘pictures’ anymore, it’s super high-speed video in which brains get rewired. Dopamine (& other feel-good chemicals) flow in the user’s brain like a torrent, and the end result over time is a dysregulated reward system circuitry in the brain’s neural pathways.
English translation: so often porn use starts out without the need for escapism per se…it’s more curiosity than anything (especially when the user is very young) and then the brain starts getting trained on “instant rewards” for a job well done (procuring the long-hoped-for- date and successfully getting to orgasm, i.e.: mating accomplished) for doing NOTHING. Nothing but masturbating to a girl who is way outside the league of the masturbator. Or the group of girls, the harem of available and willing females just panting for a touch from him.

It’s ridiculous to assume, (given the fact that human orgasm is the single biggest reinforcer of behavior that we can engage in consciously), that “just a little porn” is safe to engage in. When I say “safe” I don’t mean in terms of STD’s, I mean in terms of the user of it being able to set limits on time spent online, limits on the kinds of material he’s accessing, limits to how much he’ll then superimpose the images of his dream-girls onto his wife, and so on. Can some do it? Yes, but not many in my own professional observations.
The way porn use insidiously dysregulates the normal functioning of the reward circuitry in the brain is frightening to behold.

I work exclusively with porn/sex addicts and partners (primarily partners) in my practice and cannot begin to underestimate the damages it causes, porn-induced Erectile Dysfunction being the newest unwanted symptom in epidemic numbers of cases, and almost all of it sneaks in under the user’s radar. Because there aren’t obvious hangovers as with drugs or alcohol, it becomes very easy to increase use of the drug (yes, porn is a drug due to the way it floods the brain with endogenously-produced chemicals, just like ingesting a drug does that). It becomes all too easy to wipe off, shut the computer off and continue on with the day….ignoring any quietly mounting consequences of use.

When the wife learns of the increase in use, or what they’re really looking at, with very few exceptions, the porn user will then enlist minimization, rationalization and justification so that he can continue his use. Even HE isn’t aware at that point how difficult it would be to stop. Cutting back doesn’t work once he’s on that grassy slope.
Clinicians refer to this as: “the erotic trance”. The prefrontal cortex which is also the Executive Decision Making Center, closes down when one views porn. The reasoning part of the brain is now no longer working, so a “normal” suggestion one might give oneself like, “Geez, this girl is awfully young, I have daughters this age…maybe I should click off now”….or “I’ve exceeded my time limit on the computer and I have work to do” – or-
“I won’t be in the mood for my Date Night tonight if I climax now” …STOP WORKING.
Those messages do not occur to the user once they are already viewing because the Decision Maker portion of the brain isn’t communicating with the rest of the brain. So, use continues and very often increases. The material has to become harder for the user to start feeling the same “hit” from it…and stopping becomes a dreaded idea much like us really wishing we could lose those extra ten pounds but dammit if donuts don’t do the job of anesthetizing our pain faster than actually committing to a diet and proper food.

When we learn of the extent of their “habit”, and we ask them to tell us the truth, how often are partners overtly or covertly blamed then? VERY often. We become the thing that stands between him and his super-easy/free/always accessible/anonymously-engaged-with “habit” that dumps euphoria-producing chemicals into his bloodstream for doing NOTHING but hopping online and unzipping his pants.

I understand that not everyone is interested in the brain science behind what porn use results in alarmingly quickly, but I think we do ourselves a disservice to talk about all the sneaky tactics of the narcissistically disordered and leave out that porn is one giant gateway into those same tactics, often entered into unwittingly, and often ending up in true addiction…once that happens, you can almost count on it: the partner will be devalued and discarded either actually, almost always sexually, and her self-esteem and desirability will be in shambles. Do I speak from personal experience? You bet. My own and that of hundreds of other partners I’ve worked with.

And yes, one can always argue endlessly about the chicken & egg effect: were they disordered to begin with? Or did porn use escalate and create the disorder of character?
I say they each occasion each other.
One eases the way for the other, but I have met too many men who, once they were down the grassy slope on the way to compulsive use of porn, whether they were aware of it or not, they took on the characteristics of active addicts: they don’t care about anything or anyone but getting to “use” their drug, their partners requests be damned.

In the over 250 informal talks I had with men who used porn while I was gathering material for my upcoming book, I can count on ONE HAND how many said they were honest with their partners about their porn use. When I pressed, almost all of them said they lied about:
1) how often they looked (many said they only admitted to using it WITH her, to spice things up in the bedroom)
2) how long they actually stayed online once there
3) when they were actually online (lying about work, study, etc. while actually being online)
3) what they were looking at (the themes were in actuality much more problematic than they represented to their partners, whom they assured they were just viewing “vanilla” stuff, cheerleaders and the like.)

When I asked them why they lied to their partners, 99% said, “She would probably leave me if she knew” or at the very least, “She’d be really upset!”

As CL reminds us, once a lie is told and gotten away with, it becomes very easy to lie again and over time, we’re talking about the possibility of a lifetime of lies when it comes to porn use. As much as the Sexual Exploitation Industries try to normalize pornography, it is still at least somewhat stigmatic for users to be honest about with themselves and others who matter to them.

So at the very least, we need to be curious, ahem….yes, curious about how much truth we are in actuality receiving IF we are lucky enough to even know our partners are using porn.

The amount of mail I get daily at PoSARC.com from partners who are heartbroken at the
sexual and intimate deprivation imposed on them by the compulsive porn users is just mind-bending.
Yet so many partners are suffering quietly, afraid if they speak up, they’ll be seen as prudes, conservatives or hopelessly uncool. Make no mistake about it: the Porn Industry has spent millions on branding porn as ultra-cool. To stand apart nowadays and say, NO to it means risking social ostracization.

And any activity that furthers the demand end of the Supply + Demand chain which keeps sex trafficking flourishing and growing every day, is not something I think we can just conveniently shrug off as “some guys like it and they’re wired differently than us sexually” .

I respect other readers’ rights to see this differently, but for me to turn a blind eye knowing what I know, is just another form of spackle.

Sorry, CL, I agree with your perspective 99.99% of the time but on this one, I have to be true to what I know about pornography and the effect on most partners, whether they’re cool with porn use or not. The objectively measurable effects don’t care whether one condones porn use in one’s relationship or not.
So: as with many things shiny that promise easy, instant rewards with little to no downside? Caveat Emptor!!

jomarch
jomarch
1 month ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

I want to read this book!

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
1 month ago
Reply to  jomarch

Me too!

chumppalla
chumppalla
10 years ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

Dear CL, like Lili Bee I agree with your perspective 99.99% of the time (actually, I adore it).

Is Porn Infidelity? I expected that you would go directly past that debate and point out that DECEPTION is the issue.

I see no point in debating about consensual porn use here. Most porn use is done secretively. Deception in committed relationship is betrayal. We Chumps can certainly be susceptible to arguments to the contrary, because we are Chumps. Resist the urge to spackle.

Friends, if you have ‘discovered’ evidence of porn use, and been assured it was ‘one time’ or ‘in the past’, what the relevant take-away here is . . . Your Partner Has Proven To Be Capable Of Secretive Behavior. THAT is what you need to know.

Hawk
Hawk
9 years ago
Reply to  chumppalla

“if you have ‘discovered’ evidence of porn use, and been assured it was ‘one time’ or ‘in the past’, what the relevant take-away here is . . . Your Partner Has Proven To Be Capable Of Secretive Behavior. THAT is what you need to know.” THIS.

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

Lili Bee, thanks so much for sharing your experiences. Very eye-opening.

Preya
Preya
10 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Thank you, Lili Bee. Online pornography was my husband’s gateway to five years of sexual addiction that sucked the life and happiness out of him. He had been an occasional pornography viewer up till this time. All that was needed was the right amount of depression over difficult life events and a person out-of-touch with themselves due to the former, and wham! This pornography and “sex industry” set up shop in his brain as his new god. It’s sick and there’s lots of it going on, just as Lili Bee says in her excellent post. Thanks Lili Bee.

JustSaying
JustSaying
10 years ago
Reply to  Preya

Preya, I agree.

My situation was similar.

Mine was always a porn watcher, and used to have some videos, then DVDs, then when things went online and for free, things increased exponentially.

I believe prior to the inundation with online porn, the ex actually had things under control still to some extent, but getting too much too frequently made him want to explore the same things with live bodies, but definitely not with me! They had to be 18 and skanky to fill the fantasy brief. I was the madonna. He wanted the whores.

After many many years of porn addiction and then what I guess can only be called “live porn” addiction, that was pretty much the end of someone who used to be intelligent and interested in the world… he changed to depressed and focussed only on getting his “hit”… which became more and more frequent.

Preya
Preya
10 years ago
Reply to  JustSaying

“who used to be intelligent and interested in the world”

In my conversations with addiction counselors, I realized male and female sexual addicts are quite often very highly successful people. They are often the ones you would not suspect because of all their accomplishments and how well they appear to keep all the many balls up in the air: crazy successful career, marriage, kids. I think these heavy-on-accomplishment-oriented people wind up losing themselves in the enormous stress of the day to day. In their crazy busy lives, they stop rejuvenating spiritually, stop focusing on mindfulness, and via the gateway of pornography, the sexual exploitation industry (Lili’s excellent label) knows just how to come in and take their money and their souls to hell. Yes, many are narcissistic to begin with, but many gain their narcissism as a result of interacting with the sexual exploitation industry. Lili, I reread your post and plan to send it along to others. In particular, our youth need to learn more about the dangers. Thank you.

Janey
Janey
10 years ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

hopelessly uncool. Make no mistake about it: the Porn Industry has spent millions on branding porn as ultra-cool. To stand apart nowadays and say, NO to it means risking social ostracization.
_____________________________________________________________

I saw a revolting slogan on facebook last week that stated….

‘Porn is the new Black’

That is how hypertolerant and sick our culture has become.

We should be shifting our sex to its intended higher level elevate it to the height it was designed to be not dragging it down to the lowest common denominator cesspool.

The sacred merger of two souls who are attuned to the sacredness of others.
Two ppl committed to the spiritual and emotional wellbeing of each other as lovers.

Key words are self-mastery, mindfulness and responsibility.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

I disagree that everyone will have an issue with porn and that there is no point to asking if it’s an underlying issue within the person who becomes addicted to porn. I look at porn myself on an irregular basis, I’m not “trying to be cool” about it. There is nothing wrong with it in moderation. I don’t crave it even though I have only had sex once in the last 6 fucking years. I believe porn addiction is due to an underlying mental health issue.

I’m not talking about this as a theory. You said: “porn-induced Erectile Dysfunction being the newest unwanted symptom in epidemic numbers of cases”. My ex had this problem, I didn’t have sex for 5 years while he tried drugs and cheated on me. At some points, he told me I was “too aggressive, just wait for me to initiate”. That never happened. I almost divorced him before I discovered the cheating because of the lack of sex but I hung in for love of him. And stupid me, it never occurred to me that if he loved me then he would have sex with me even he could not orgasm. He would at least try to give me pleasure. I know it was simple, he didn’t have the same love for me that I did for him. After the cheating I found he was looking at hard core porn at least 2 hours every.single.day.

He admitted porn might be the problem exactly once and told me that he could no longer come even to porn, ending that confession with “are you happy now?”. Thereafter he insisted he never said it and it was not true.

Finally, we once had a conversation that I told me all I needed to know. He said “I’m jealous of you because you can have sex with someone for fun, I can’t do that because it’s the same as masturbation”. (What he said is true when I am single) I then asked him about his partners before me, something I’d never done before. It turned out that he had sex with every single woman within 48 hours of meeting them (including me). Cognitive dissonance was key to his view of himself; for my ex, having sex with a woman really is no different than masturbation. He told me who he was, I really listened.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
1 month ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Dat, good to hear from you. I’m totally struck by his thinking that having sex with another person (anyone!) is the same as masturbation. That’s horrifying. It also goes to show that for people with this problem, the AP isn’t really special, right? Not any different than watching porn…

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

PS: I know for a fact it took a year before his OW could make the magic happen – god knows what shit she did to accomplish that – both in and out of the bed.

Kat
Kat
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Porn is a lot like cigarettes. The ease of availability, age of exposure, and coolness factor have a lot to do with how likely someone is to become addicted. And lets be honest…if cigarettes were as available and as socially acceptable as porn we’d be a nation of smokers (the U.S. that is).

I didn’t used to have a problem with porn other than it’s not really geared towards women but I now know too many couple’s lives who were destroyed by “just porn”. Honestly the phrase is insulting. Yes, some of us can watch it without turning into glossy eyed, shaved bald, obsessed anal monkeys. Um, yeah…that’s a description of my ex. And no his main problem wasn’t porn but it didn’t help. I dated a guy for a minute who literally couldn’t finish during sex unless he finished himself off. You know why? Because he watched too damn much porn. It certainly isn’t a version of healthy sexuality or something that encourages intimacy and the amount of exposure now a days is starting to cause an epidemic of these issues.

I promise DDWuf that I’m not prude. I just can’t endorse playing with fire when I’ve seen too many burn victims.

notyou
notyou
10 years ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

Outstanding commentary, Lili Bee! Are you familiar with this speaker?

“Why I stopped watching porn: Ran Gavrieli”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJ_QfP2mhU

Lili Bee
Lili Bee
10 years ago
Reply to  notyou

Yes (and thank you Notyou) We have had this video on our Video page for some months now and it’s so inspiring! There are other great videos on this page as well:
http://posarc.com/resources/media/videos
I’ll be posting a new interview with Ron on Posarc next week so sign up to get the blog post!

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
10 years ago
Reply to  Lili Bee

Wow, I didn’t know all of that about how porn can affect the brain. I can see how porn can be very dangerous. I think porn is like anything that’s potentially dangerous and addicting – you have to be careful. Some people will get addicted. Some people should never use it at all, they should just stay away. And it can be very harmful.

But not to everyone. Similarly to other potentially addictive things, not all people are bad about it. Some people can enjoy just a little and be fine. Case in point, drinking. Some people can have just a few drinks and they never become alcoholics. Likewise, some people can just watch some porn, and never get addicted. Some people can gamble and not become addicted.

So honestly, I don’t think porn is the entire problem. CL stated it correctly. Porn may be a catalyst (such as drinking, gambling, etc.) but the main problem goes deeper than that. Porn doesn’t take all the blame here.

BTW, I’m not a fan of porn at all, for reasons that are too numerous to mention (heard Shelly talk one time, very moving: https://www.shelleylubben.com) . Still, I think in HopelessChump’s case, porn isn’t the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that her husband is an entitled, gaslighting, closet-pedophile (pedophile, meaning that he has a sexual preference for children). Take porn away and all those things are still true.

Elizabeth Lee
Elizabeth Lee
10 years ago

Dear Hopeless Chump,

I have five children, too. I was forced to stop homeschooling them when I got divorced. It wasn’t the end of the world. Frankly, when you’re dealing with something as emotionally wrenching as divorce, it’s difficult to do an excellent job of homeschooling.

You said your husband is a user of child porn. It doesn’t matter if the children are teenagers, it’s still child porn. Have you told your attorney what you found?

Dragonfly
Dragonfly
10 years ago

First post to ChumpLady—you are awesome, by the way!!

Hopeless—my STBX is a porn addict and I will be divorced from him in the next few months. As LiliBee so eloquently shared—porn is an addiction, just like alcohol and gambling. I have wanted to post your letter to ChumpLady—do you consider porn infidelity? He left two years ago—I have not heard about OW, in my case, but wouldn’t doubt someone existed.

We used to watch videos before we had kids—to spice things up. About a year before he ran away, I found an email that he printed (what an idiot) about buying panties from a woman. A few months before he left, I found porn DVDs in his dresser. When I confronted him, he told me he needed them. Ten months after he left, I found sixty porn magazines from the mid-1990s hidden under the house.

I also caught him in the mid-1990s talking to someone on the internet and jerking off—he told me he was under alot of pressure and it would never happen again. He just went further undgerground—for 16 years.

Addicts have to lie and deceive to protect their habit. I think in my case, his addictions (he is an alcoholic also) started to take up more of his time—and abandoning me and his sons gave him unfettered time to do as he pleased.

As LiliBee stated—STBX has ED—it started when he was about 44 and by the time he left, he couldn’t get it up at all.

As wives of porn addicts, I say RUN. Porn addiction escalates—who knows what they will watch or do to get their jollies. Being married to an addict of any kind is covert abuse. It is hard to break free, but for your sake and your children, see that he is abusing all of you. How much time and money is being used to fund these activities and not going towards your family?

I had an uncle who was sexually suggestive and I would now question if he touched me inappropriately—I am glad you reported your FIL.

I, also, would not trust your H around your daughters—-I just couldn’t take that chance. If your gut is telling you he may act inappropriately with your daughters, please listen.

My counselor also told me her practice is seeing many men (married) with porn addictions—it is becoming an epidemic.

Janey
Janey
10 years ago

Pornography is dangerous to your soul.

With the sexual revolution it became acceptable to think ‘if it feels good do it’
Anything goes nowadays and shockingly it seems to be the norm to think porn is ok and ‘healthy’?!

Pornography is an unintelligent degradation of human sexuality that has nothing whatsoever to offer any woman (or man) except loss of intimacy and low self esteem.

Why would someone watch a woman losing her dignity by allowing herself to be objectified by animalistic unloving men.

Men who use pornography disgust me.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago

NOT Hopeless Chump, you are just momentarily frozen, I call it going “tharn” from the book “Watership Down”. I was there once, it was an awful place and it took a gun in my face to get me to move. Don’t be me.

I want to add my voice to others; respect your intuition and be very careful in leaving this guy. Read “Gift of Fear”, also visit the authors site and fill out the survey here: https://www.mosaicmethod.com/ these give you the tools to determine how dangerous things may be. I found them a bit late…

I worry that he said “I love you, you are my “soulmate” and I will never let you go.” Before my ex escalated to physical abuse he made many comments about suicide and he often said things like “I will live in this house until I die”, “You show me the path, I need you” and “we are not getting a divorce. These “loving” words were often followed by rages about a myriad of things. Followed by more “loving” protestations. What I realized later was that in finally standing up to him he had speeded up what psychologists call the “cycle of abuse”. Look it up. So he started doing the sweet things followed by the abusive things faster and faster until I could easily recognize the manipulations for what they were.

None of what I wrote may apply to you, putting it out there in case it does so you can validate what you are experiencing. And seriously, read that book, take that survey. Find out why your husband lost his job while you are at it.

And whatever you do? It’s going to be hard as hell, reach out to family, find some local support. Definitely check in with your local women’s abuse shelter, they usually offer free therapy sessions. jedi hugs

Janey
Janey
10 years ago

I posted something similar to my comments on here on another site and I received several angry replies mainly from men saying….
I was just ‘jealous’ (of the so called porn stars) because I was obviously ‘fat and ugly’ also I had psychological problems because I was so ‘prudish’ and should ‘lighten up’.

MMargaret
MMargaret
10 years ago

I want to add to the chorus about taking care of your safety since he’s a former police officer – the things he said made my hair stand on end. Perhaps try the Mosaic threat assessment.

I’m wondering how he lost his job. I am getting a sense that he quit when he saw the spectre of divorce and didn’t want to pay child or spousal support.

Martha L
Martha L
10 years ago

Has anyone here had the pleasure of sitting in on Sex Addiction support group meetings or been in group therapy with a partner that is a SA? If you have I am certain you have also had the shock of witnessing the large number of 20 -30 year old porn addicts that are now filling these venues up to overflowing. Cyber porn addicts. Look up what porn addiction does to a persons brain. It is one of the most pathetic addictions I have ever witnessed. The men I witnessed were miserable, very hooked, and it very sad. It usually get really gross and twisted as the addiction accelerates and the need for novelty and something more intense grows. (Thus grandma porn, child porn, and other violent, demeaning and or just twisted sick porn is desired )
Porn wires the brain to be anti social and distorted. It shuts down the pre-frontal cortex where empathy and the ability to attune with other human being is located. It can also teach young men at developmentally sensitive time (11 -16) to objectify women in very serious ways that will effect future human relationships and interactions of all kinds.

MRI scans have shown that fast paced digital porn, where it is easy to access image after image for hours, has the same effect on the human brain as heroin does. Porn is really messing up a lot of young peoples lives at this time.
The porn addicts I met were suffering horribly.. Young men are rendered incapable of having normal sex with real partners. They are often self isolated and preoccupied and their partners are confused and suffering because of the PA’s porn use and porn addiction.
Another point worth mentioning is that almost every single porn addict in the large group I witnessed , sited that their porn use had been a huge contributing factor in their subsequent use of prostitution. These men would attribute the porn cycle (usually at 6 months to 1 1/2 year of porn) as the catalyst that spiked their interest in and drive to use prostitution, cyber sex, and all the new sexual venues that go with this.
Sexual gratification with objects and images that expect nothing back from you is one of the big things that drives these PA to use porn. It is an easy fix. One of the biggest issues that porn addicts discuss is excessive masturbation that goes with excessive porn use and this often goes to the point that they seriously damage themselves physically. This was discussed matter of fact again and again as something that just goes with porn addiction. Gross and Ouch Yes!
Also a question for anyone here that is over 40. Do you have any idea what is actually available porn wise now??? I was so naive about this. Anyone gone on line to check out what all the fuss is about? It is actually a very sad and dangerous situation that we will all have to deal with and it will destroy many relationships and many other people with be used, violated, and trafficked etc. Porn addiction is now a bigger deal now on the world stage then ever before. Because of what happens to porn addicts neurologically it can actually change our world and not for the better especially if PA was normalized as just something people do.
Porn Addiction does and will effect everyone that the PA is connected to in any way. It is now a collective human issue and we all, as parents, partners and as humans will be effected in some way. It would be wise if we educate ourselves on what can happen when anyone and especially young people are exposed to porn and not taught about the very real dangers that now exist regarding PA .

Janey
Janey
10 years ago
Reply to  Martha L

“Porn wires the brain to be anti social and distorted. It shuts down the pre-frontal cortex where empathy and the ability to attune with other human being is located. It can also teach young men at developmentally sensitive time (11 -16) to objectify women in very serious ways that will effect future human relationships and interactions of all kinds”.
__________________________________

Martha that is so frightening.

There is a new word in the dictionary now that describes what is happening to society western civilization

‘Pornification’

Hypertolerance, political correctness and the decline of Christianity is the cause.

Bede
Bede
10 years ago

Addiction to anything sucks. What makes us chumps? Addiction… The modules in our brains are built on millions of years of extremely complex push and pull. No pun intended.

I think it’s safe to say that child abuse should trigger negative reactions every, every time. As an educator, I tell kids to be careful of what they put in their heads because it stays there. And it’s my job to protect them. By law, I must report abuse. It should be that way for all of us.

I do want to say though, that it’s possible there are many men like me – for whom masturbation is about avoiding “sex without intimacy”. I have not had a sex partner since my D-Day in January of 2010. Being single does not mean I’m weak. It means I’m strong enough to wait for the right person. That being said however, there are tensions in all our lives. But I’d rather fill it with an occasional healthy release alone than with a partner I don’t care about… I only control me though.

I hope I’m not the only guy here that’s going comment on this post! Hopeless Chump? You’re an educator too… Protect your kids. Protect all kids.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
10 years ago

Hopeless, do you have family somewhere that would take you in, at least temporarily? How about friends? How old are your children?

I was a homeschooler as well, but I just have one child, so it was easier for me. Is there any way you can teach classes at a homeschool coop, or take in daycare kids to make money once divorce is done? I agree with others you need to be VERY careful with this guy, he is potentially dangerous. I also agree he needs to be reported to the police again, and perhaps that would be the road to freedom for you.

Hopeless Chump
Hopeless Chump
10 years ago

I am so grateful for all the input. I have been devastated by this, my marriage ruined- if I ever had one, it was certainly not to the person I thought he was. He insists that he is that good person and does not want to be the “deceiver” as he calls the other person. He compartmentalized so well I did not know for 6years of marriage and 2 years of dating! He is always remorseful, but It is always after I have caught him. He has never come to me and said I am having trouble again. His whole family is this way. Sister was molested by father, or younger brother, older brothers’ marriage is falling apart due to his excessive porn use. Youngest brother raped a 16 yo girl when he was 19. He spent time in prison for it. I did not know ANY of this before I married Mr X. I found the teen porn over and over, he insisted that it was from sites with a disclaimer that all girls are over 18. So the fuck what. He WANTED to look at TEEN girls or women who LOOKED like teens. He also suffered the last 2 years from ED. I thought it was me. I thought that I just was not good enough for him. I was too old. I am scared out of my skull. I am so afraid of making the wrong move, and making my situation worse. I do not have nor do I have anyway to pay the 7500$ retainer the attorneys want up front. I could use legal aid and file, but if he contests it and lawyers up I’m fucked. I would have to represent myself and I would lose. Judges HATE for you to come in with no attorney. I know, I had to do it with alcoholic X. Also, he was a police officer and as such knows all the judges and all the attorneys and could easily get one to represent him gratis. Once again- I am fucked. I am so scared. I feel like a trapped animal. I am considering all my options and I realize that some hard decisions will have to be made. And soon. The devastation he has caused me, the anxiety and indescribable trauma and stress is , in my mind anyway, immeasurable. He said it himself, he is a pathological liar and has been a liar his entire life. Those are his words, not mine. If the children were not involved I would get myself gone. I am lost.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

Be careful, only you know your situation well enough to determine the best route. I do think you should call a women’s shelter in your area and see what resources they can provide, the one I visited had an attorney who does cases for free. I paid for my attorney but I know that she also did pro bono work for abused women, it’s one of the reasons I picked her. Cops are the hardest to get away from, as you said, he knows everyone and other cops will help him.

Make sure your husband does not know what you are doing.

Dani
Dani
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Hopeless (that you are not)… Listen to Datamwuf. She knows from experience. Only you know what is safest and best for your situation. I work in the DV field IN A POLICE DEPARTMENT. I know how one sided anything involving cops can be. Start with a local DV agency (not connected to a police department or prosecutor). Something advocacy based either in your community or in a community near you. Most of the advocates I refer people to in my area have attorneys they can call upon for the cases they really know need free or reduced cost representation. You can get away from this situation, but you are going to need help. It can’t hurt to start asking for it… but do it safely and secretly. Don’t let him know what you are doing. The things he is saying to you are very ominous and are designed to make you feel too paralyzed to do anything. They might only be words, but then again, maybe not. You need back up!!!! We here at CL can be your cheering squad, but we can’t do the legwork that you are gonna need help with. GOOD LUCK!

Mehphista
Mehphista
10 years ago

Hey Hopeless,

Listen to Datdamwuf, their advice has been bang on ever since I started watching this blog.

Like many abused women, you are spackling- read over what you have written-there is alot of ‘if only’ in there. Whatever you do is going to scare the shit out of you, and you are in a situation where ‘least worst’ may be all you can manage. But staying put is not an option.

I would go to a shelter-perhaps they can help you relocate, enroll the kids in school. You only pay child support if he has access to them, and it sounds like you have a fair chance of getting a no contact order. I see the tightrope you are on-if you abscond, it may go against you, but equally, if you stay, much worse might happen.

Your stbx sounds like a proper narcissist, and if he is anything like the unlamented Mr. Fab, once your girls hit adolescence, their wanting to differentiate or individuate will make the crap hit the fan anyway. Sounds like much worse is possible, given the family constellation you describe, so be a Mom, step up and get the hell outta there.

No, a court order won’t stop your ex if he goes postal, but equally, you either gotta stand your ground, or you gotta go to ground somewhere. Not interstate, and if your kids are homeschooled, then it won’t disrupt them too much. You mentioned a Dad, can he set you up somewhere this douche can’t find you or the kids? You may find that, given the chance to express themselves, that your kids don’t need or want this jerk in their lives.

Keep us posted, Hopeless. We want you to be Hopeful. Someday….but for now, we want you to be able to live to tell the tale. And for your kids to not be abused, or tolerate abusive partners in future.

ONLY you can make that difference.
May the force be with you.

M-x

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehphista

“Listen to Datdamwuf, their advice has been bang on ever since I started watching this blog.”

Me, too, and I’ve beefing here for a decade.

JustSaying
JustSaying
10 years ago

Hopeless,

It seems to me that everyone is assuming that you are further down the path to thinking that your husband may be quite evil than you actually are.

Let me say this to you… I was married for 20 years to a guy who I knew liked to watch porn. I thought that’s all it was. I was trusting. He had me absolutely convinced that he just liked to watch, and that was OK, because, hey, all guys like porn, right?

Until I started doing some digging, and found out about multiple affairs. About him spending ridiculous amounts of money to buy sex from girls. About his membership to ladyboys69.com. About HOW MANY YEARS he had been involved in such activities.

It is likely… no… I’d say it is DEFINITE that with his father being a child molester, his quirks and problems run MUCH deeper than simple porn addiction.

If you do some digging… and it is NEVER pleasant… you are going to find out a WHOLE lot more than you really want to know about what this man is REALLY like.

I would encourage you, however, to try and find out everything you can about him. But do it quietly and with caution.

As long as you only SUSPECT other things of him, and have no proof, you will continue to tell yourselves lies about how it’s better for the kids to have a dad… ANY dad… how you still love the idiot somehow.

Only with some good, hard facts about his real behaviour and his real sociopathy will you get the gumption to pull you and your family out of this mess.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE…. do this for yourself and your kids now. Trust someone who knows, and many will back me here on this. Your marriage is going to end at some stage anyway… better to pull the bandaid off quickly and get it over with, than living with this (and hey, let’s face it, with the possibility that he or his dad is finding time to molest your kids) for a few more years before finally getting yourself out.

PLEASE… find out more. Get the show on the road. Take action. Gather your facts first though, before he can hide things from you. Then dump his ass.

Lynn
Lynn
10 years ago
Reply to  JustSaying

Well said Justsaying! I can relate totally to your experience. I started digging and couldn’t believe how long his activities went on for and for how sick they were. And the anger he turned on me because I insisted on knowing his “deepest and darkest” secrets. The divorce was ALL my fault because I “just HAD to know”. What a bitch I was!
You’re so right in saying that as long as Hopeless-soon-to-be Hopeful only suspects she will continue lying to herself. It’s a trait of our chumpiness. And also because we still somehow love the person we still hope/wish they are. The side they showed us. Not the hidden part.

Hopeless-soon-to-be-Hopeful – being fair and non-judgemental is wasted on someone like him – how fair has he been to you? Not one bit in the least. So cut that out now.
Giving him that consideration is totally wasted on him – turn your attention away from him to yourself and your children and saving yourselves.

JustSaying
JustSaying
10 years ago
Reply to  Lynn

Lynn,

So true, so true.

I mean, it’s difficult. We chumps, by our very nature, can’t conceive of the awful, hateful, and sometimes very demented things our cheaters will do and the lengths they will go to, to cover them up because, well, WE would never DREAM of being like that.. and many of us can’t conceive of the fact that there ARE people like that.

A friend said to me, “People are capable of all kinds of stuff… look at Hitler.” I hate to compare my husband to Hitler… but it’s true. Just because I can’t conceive of it, doesn’t mean others can’t be horrible!

Hopeless will get there. Hopefully a little encouragement will egg her on.

I know for me, I am still in the middle of it, and still digging. I hate to dig, but I have to, because there is potential money in it for me that he has wasted and owes me back.

And still, everytime I start digging, I think I couldn’t possibly find anything worse than what I’ve already found, and surely there can’t be MORE anyway… and everytime I find MORE and it is WORSE! It’s astounding.

I say to Hopeless again… even if you don’t believe it… find the facts, do your research. Start digging. It is painful, but it is necessary, as you need some facts so that you actually know for sure what you are dealing with.

It’s Valentine’s Day today here in Australia… we’re a bit ahead of the US in timing! I’m going out for a lovely lunch with a good female friend of mine and we will celebrate our freedom!

Take care everyone!

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
10 years ago
Reply to  JustSaying

What she said!

I know you’re scared. Leave anyway. Take it from me, I was also scared to leave my ex, but the consequences of staying were much worse. Feel the fear, and leave anyway.

Don’t wait for that rock-bottom moment (when he molests your daughter? Or your daughter’s friend? Or when he gives you an STD from his prostitute trysts?). You know everything you need to know right now. This is your window to act, before it’s too late. Take it. We’re here if you need to vent.

Your kids need to you to do this for them.

Hopeless Chump
Hopeless Chump
10 years ago

I thank everyone for their concern and input. I took the mosaic, and it accessed my situation at a 7 out of 10. That tells me that my gut is right, that I have cause for great concern. I am inching forward. Datdamwuf I loved the expression “tharn” I had totally forgotten that from watership down. That was a great book! And that is EXACTLY how this feels. Mephista and JustSaying- thank you for putting into words what I need to know. I AM AFRAID. And I keep hoping he is not the evil person that he is appearing to be. I am trying to be “fair” and not be judgemental. Just trying to stay sane. But staying with the devil you know is not going to be the best thing for my children. The Mosaic accessment got my atttention that is for sure. And Lili from posarc is right on with her explanation of SA. I know in my gut that he has done much, much more than I know. And I probably don’t want to know. CL I love this site and it is a great help to read stories of people who have gotten out. I pray that someday I can sign in as Hopeful rather than Hopeless.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
1 month ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

“I am trying to be ‘fair’ and not be judgemental.” 

Be fair when dividing cookies among your kids or taking your turn providing snacks for a kiddo’s soccer game. But would you be “fair” if someone threatened you with a knife? Or if a known molester wanted coach your kids’ baseball team? Would you be “fair” to an arsonist who burned your neighbor’s house down? I

Of course not. You are not dealing with someone who is “quirky” or has problems. It’s our duty to MAKE JUDGMENTS about people, not in the churchy way–“He’s such a sinner”–but in the “Am I and my kids safe???” way. It’s not about critiquing someone or being “judgmental,” meaning “having or displaying an excessively critical point of view.” It’s not “excessively critical” to object to leaving your children with a man who view porn about teenagers (however old the porn actresses are in irrelevant). It’s not “excessively critical” or fault finding to see that his porn addiction has destroyed your marriage.

Do not be afraid to have good JUDGMENT and to use it. Here’s a simple example. This morning, where I live, we had a snowstorm start around 6 am and the morning commute was bad. I was driving on my snow-covered, local road, when I saw two sets of headlights in my rear view mirror. Some guy was passing a car in a no passing zone because the other driving was appropriately cautious. He then proceeded to glue himself to my bumper and flash his high beams over and over, trying to get me to drive faster on a set of hairpin turns, when there were cars in front of me. I made some judgments. I judge him to be a jackass. A road rage idiot. And my judgment said, “Drive at a safe speed, like the rest of the normal people.”

Judgment (like a discussion of jealousy in yesterday’s Washington Post) gets a bad rap.We want our kids to have good judgment about alcohol, drugs, driving, school work, etc. As Chumps and former Chumps, we’ve learned to have better judgment about the people we let into our lives. Using “judgment” is not the same as being judgmental.

Janey
Janey
10 years ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

I cant understand you wanting to be fair and non judgemental Hopeless Chump

He isn’t a good person.

He has a mind that is dysfunctional, sick, cannot distinguish between right and wrong, and has no moral compass.

It isnt okay for your children to be in the same room with a man with such a perverse mind?

If you have anything more to do with this creep you are being a bad mother.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Hopeless Chump

I’m glad you used mosaic, that is a high score. I hope you will contact the womens shelter in your area also to see what they can help with.

Mehphista
Mehphista
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Hey Hopeless (soon to be hopeful)

I second that on the mosaic-I did one, too, for emotional abuse, but still (DD was self harming), an eye opener.

Fear can sometimes be a gift- sticking with Watership Down-Fiver was the most fearful, but also the one with the most character and courage in the end. You can bring down this Efrafa, and get your babies to a safer burrow.

Other Chumps with more dire experience advise gathering evidence, so do that.

This guy feels dangerous. I second and third and fourth the women’s shelter idea.

And may your black rabbit run many many many years from now.

Keep us posted.

love,
M

kb
kb
10 years ago

I meant to write this earlier.

Your note sounds a lot as if it’s coming from an abuse victim, and the mosaic score suggests that you have cause for concern. I know you’re worried about lawyers, retainer fees, etc., but here’s something else you should know.

Even though your husband is a scary bastard, abusers like to assume much more authority and power than they have. Your husband isn’t a cop; he’s a former cop. He’s not working now, right? So something went wrong, very wrong, at work. Dollars to doughnuts he’s not as respected and powerful as he tells you he is.

That doesn’t make him less dangerous. It simply means that he doesn’t hold all the cards in the judicial system.

Take your power back.

Contact the local womens shelter. Many family lawyers will donate their services to women in these shelters. Shelters also have contacts for therapists experienced in dealing with abuse situations. Even if you opt not to go into the shelter, you can at least get some good advice for area resources.

The abuse shelter can also help you explore whether your children’s grandfather molested them. It’ll be important to the children to know that you have their back on this. Also, this gives you the documentation you need for family court.

The shelter can also help you with transitional housing as well as plugging you into local job training resources.

So, talking to the shelter will be a first step in taking back control over your life.

Hugs, and keep us updated.

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
10 years ago
Reply to  kb

Yes, Kb makes a good point. I bet your husband isn’t as powerful as he brags to be. My ex was also a cop, active-duty at the time. It scared me to think of going to court where he would know the judges, etc. But in hindsight, I know that while he did have some friends there, he also had enemies. Enemies he made because of his own poor behavior as a cop.

You said that up until recently he was working as a cop, and you are the full-time mom who homeschools, right? That will help you a lot in getting physical custody. The courts usually want to keep the status-quo. They look at what the children are used to – not just the past six months, but a larger time span, overall. It sounds like they are used to being with you as the stay-at-home, so the court will want to continue to have you be the main caregiver. Just a guess.

Mehphista
Mehphista
10 years ago

Good point, kb!

Katy
Katy
9 years ago

I know this thread is ancient but I just want to say my ex was a porn user as well. And here is the trouble with porn: it’s not the same as alcohol and gambling. I think it more closely resembles meth or heroin or crack. Some couples might be able to hit an opium pipe together and have a great time, and not have it ruin their relationship or their lives. But is that really a healthy thing to do, and should women be pressured to say “ok I accept that most men like to hit the opium pipe and it’s just in their DNA, I’ll get over it.”
nah… I met the love of my life finally, and he has no desire to use porn. There are men out there who were not raised on internet porn and see it as the skeevy crack pipe that it is. I have a large network of friends online who escaped domestic abuse, and porn was ALWAYS present. I can’t think of one of my fellow survivors who didn’t experience this porn problem in their marriages.
So yeah CL — go ahead and tell women that most men like to hit the crack pipe and all that matters is if you are down with it or not. I guess in the end we get what we ask for. Just want to give hope to any women reading this that there ARE men out there who don’t want to use porn, they are NOT unicorns, they are out there.

susie lee
susie lee
1 month ago

All good advice.

What I don’t get is why does him not working matter in a D. If he is not working now, then he isn’t paying for anything anyway. I wouldn’t say this if it were a new article, as I wouldn’t want to hurt a new chump.

FYI_
FYI_
1 month ago
Reply to  susie lee

Is this not a new post? I don’t see anything that says it’s re-posted from the archive?

susie lee
susie lee
1 month ago
Reply to  FYI_

The old posts are 9 years ago. If you sort by newest they will be at the bottom. When I posted it was the first post at 5am, so I saw the old posts.

weedfree
weedfree
1 month ago

One issue with porn is if your FW is a basic bitch, he may actually believe porn is real life, formulate his views about women etc, and he is probably not alone there.
Alarm bells should have been ringing for me on many occasions, one of which was when I was cornered by a plumber who was repairing a water cylinder. I was at home on a remote property with my youngest as a baby, when the plumber came into the house and asked who was around, said FW told him I was home by myself, made various small talk and then started moving toward me with a demented smile on his face. I didn’t know what was going on but knew to get away from the freak. I had about a metre to spare to manoeuvre away. I grabbed the baby etc, and drove to my ex MIL’S garage who lived nearby on the property. The plumber left about 15 minutes later. When I told FW, he said very matter of factly, unsympathetically “oh he would just think you were a horny housewife and he was in a porn movie.”
I still don’t know whether FW is an idiot, or a psychopath. It seemed unnecessary to tell the plumber I was home alone, with no one about, given according to him all men think they are the lead character in a porn movie.

ChumpedAndDumped
ChumpedAndDumped
1 month ago
Reply to  weedfree

What a horrible experience and I’m so sorry you had that happen to you. I second the vote for psychopath. No one with a soul or conscience would set you up for a situation like that. Although that seems to be the definition of a FW.

Orlando
Orlando
1 month ago
Reply to  weedfree

I had an ex BF who led me to almost being raped by his friend by telling him I was alone & the friend tried to trap me but I screamed blue murder & he left when he realized I wasn’t just gonna let him go for it. Talking with someone later who dated the friend, it turns out these guys had each other’s backs into trying to trap vulnerable women – including each other’s girlfriends- into giving them sex. I bet your ex knew the plumber & they had an agreement.

weedfree
weedfree
1 month ago
Reply to  Orlando

Ergh you are probably right. I despise these people. Hard to explain to others who haven’t been through it the cognitive dissonance reconciling the two faces of these freaks.
I’m glad he is your ex.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  weedfree

I vote for psychopath. There is no reason for him to tell the plumber you were alone unless he also hinted you might be interested in sex. IMO it was a set up for FW to fulfill a sick fantasy. That is spectacularly evil. I’m so sorry you went through that horror.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago

He wouldn’t “give” her a divorce? Huh? He has no say in it. It’s not his to give or to refuse. I wonder if she got her financial situation solved and got the divorce.

I have experience with a porn addict. They are the worst. It sounds like this one likes underage girls. With that and the family history, I would have been worried about my kids, too. I hope the weren’t molested by either their pervert dad or pedophile grandfather. What I think is that these creeps marry a woman to have a front of normalcy to hide behind. They know they are deviants and will never be normal, but they deceive women into believing they are. My ex FW managed to hide his disgusting perversion from me for more than 30 years. Yeah, I will “kink shame.” Anyone who is on the consumer end of sex trafficking, rape and physical abuse, which is rampant in porn, is not “kinky,” he is a twisted, misogynistic POS who has no business being around women or children. That is not a safe person.

IMO, most porn addicts are going to act out eventually. Even if they don’t, they are definitely not partner material. I would advise women to not date anyone who likes porn, let alone marry them. I realize that leaves only a small percentage of men.That’s the situation women are in now, as internet porn has colonized male sexuality and warped it. I also know from personal experience they can be adept at hiding it. But I wasn’t looking for it. If I had been, I would have found it, and I would never have married that bastard. I had no clue how prevalent and powerful this is and it rocked my world to find out. Now I know and I can’t unsee the woman hating filth. These men are abuseosexuals and will never experience healthy sexuality as long as they continue to use porn. My ex FW chose porn over our marriage and our family. Leave these sickos to their pathetic lives of hand lotion and tissues. Even if they do stop, most of the time they will start again. Don’t waste your life policing some creeper’s dick, whether it be porn or other women.

My general advice would be that if you are dating somebody, find a way to investigate his internet activities. I would take him by surprise and ask to see what’s on his phone and laptop. Don’t warn him first and give him time to delete it. If he won’t let you and gets upset that you’re asking, you know what you’re dealing with. Dump anyone who feels the need to hide his activities. We deserve better. If we can’t find what we deserve, it’s better to be alone than to be with a porn slob. They will destroy your life. If all women stood together and refused to have anything to do with porn users, maybe we could put a stop to it. So make a stand against colonization.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

You make so many great points, I’d just like to add, people should consider what it takes to get them their “pastimes” whether it be porn or drugs. Many people in other countries (or this one) have to endure a lot of suffering, physically and mentally so that your drugs and porn bullshit can be produced. This is probably true of other standard products (not drugs, porn, etc) too where we don’t realize how much the workers and others on the producing end go through or how little they get from it, or the kind of crimes and poverty they have to endure because of these products, but in general, it would be better if people understood what it takes to make these things – maybe then we stop consuming them or if they’re standard products, look for more ethical sources. We have to take more responsibility for our choices.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Hear hear! I couldn’t possibly agree more. I buy my clothes from thrift shops for this reason. We all need to be more aware, responsible consumers.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I do the same and frequently the clothes are better quality anyway 🙂

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I have to say, it’s a relief seeing more women refusing to tolerate porn in any capacity. I’m noticing more and more of this in the last few years, especially among Gen Z women who are becoming very vocal online about the industry’s abuses.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

Yes, it’s starting to happen. There is an anti-porn movement, but it’s swimming against a tidal wave. As it stands, relationships are doomed.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Yeah. Sadly, porn companies won’t go down without a fight. Exploiting women is hugely profitable.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I agree — “most porn addicts are going to act out eventually.” My ex was retired, and porn became his primary “hobby.”

I should have known when he was watching threesomes and suggested that we try that. He knew better, being from a very religious family of preachers and missionaries. A threesome was adultery, and I told him so.

But I enabled his poor treatment of me until we finally separated again (second time that year), and the space helped me get my head together. No more porn ever. I told him that once on the phone when we were separated, and he changed the subject. More came out that only confirmed that he had problem stretching way back that exploded after he was living apart from us.

Frankly, I’m not up for investing in all the energy required to vet someone I’m dating. I went out a few times with a widow that really wasn’t a good match in other areas, and that was that.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  Elsie_

I don’t have the energy to vet a bunch of guys either. I’d rather be alone than take the risk of dealing with another pornsick monster.

hush
hush
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Exactly! I know too much about how the majority of men my Gen X age are in patriarchy. And I will not settle for pornsick limpdick.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I was away this last weekend at a funeral and met up with one of my bridesmaids (late 60’s, widowed about ten years ago, dated quite a bit at first and then stopped) and her 40-something daughter (divorced from a FW who got into porn and blew up their lives with a variety of horrible women, still raising two teens).

And we talked very frankly about this very issue. All of us agreed that dating is such a minefield now because of porn. My bridesmaid friend said “never again,” I said “highly unlikely,” and my friends daughter said “highly unlikely.” Absolutely, not via an app as it’s so easy to hide that way.

To my married friends who keep trying to set me up — NO, THANK YOU. They have no idea. None.

Orlando
Orlando
1 month ago

When my ex started having ED, I immediately suspected porn was behind it. Do I think it was cheating in the usual sense? No. But it did cheat me out of having a loving intimate relationship with him. I also believe it lead him to amp up deviancy into cheating, much like drugs or someone who starts drinking too much may lead a person down this same road. Porn lead my exhusband to want thrill & danger in sex, not love, caring & intimacy. Hence the OW. Hence why he seems bored & depressed with OW now as my kids tell me. I think the porn industry is the most dehumanizing scourge as of late and women get fed a lot of crap that it “empowers” them. No it just makes a lot of predators & human traffickers a lot of money and they will protect it at all costs.

kangajen74
kangajen74
1 month ago

If he’s consuming porn like this, he’s participating in human trafficking; he’s creating the demand. The fact that Grandpa is a molester poses an immediate threat to your kids. That alone should have you running for the hills.

The question of whether or not it’s adultery. The secular world has various perspectives, but looking at it from a Catholic angle, Christ was pretty clear about that; He said that anyone who looked lustfully at another already committed adultery in their heart. Whether or not your husband is bumping uglies with someone else is immaterial. And as to your husband’s claim that he has two sides, a “deceiver” and a good guy, that’s not possible. The two are mutually exclusive. Good people don’t deceive their spouses. If he admits to being a deceiver, then that’s what he is. It’s like when people get caught doing something horrible and saying “that’s not the Real Me.” Like there’s this phenomenal version of themselves that materializes to do transgressive and terrible things.

I read a quote by Leslie Vernick from her book on toxic marriages which says that God doesn’t care about the institution of marriage more than he cares about the people in it.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  kangajen74

Thank you for mentioning porn is human trafficking. The Venn diagram between the two is almost a circle.

I mentioned this in my comment (currently awaiting approval), but folks should google Gail Dines for more info on just how dangerous this industry is and how much it skirts the law.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

Cam, just for future reference, I’ve noticed that if I put a direct link into my comment – you know, the whole http: etc stuff, it will get held up for review, maybe that’s a safety thing for this site. If I want to post something immediately I just try to leave out something that would make it a direct link like maybe htp: or something like that which makes the other site obvious but prevents it from being a direct link..

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Thank you!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

I was trained to provide sources for my arguments so I just put in the links and hope the post doesn’t show up too late in the day for anyone to see it. 😀

Cam
Cam
1 month ago

Same here.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago

Nothing changes. This had so many similarities to my story. My ex had a long-term pill addiction and then made porn his retirement hobby. Our college kids (both homeschooled K-12) 100% knew and were horrified with glimpses they got because he was watching in the family room. I was horrified because no way could I compete with that in the bedroom. He set all kinds of conditions and said I was a prude.

We separated twice that year, and he made the second one long-distance. There were signs that he was not “honorably occupied” (my attorney’s phrase), and my husband seemed to enjoy all the chaos he created, one of those major flags so often mentioned here.

My husband initiated the divorce because I wouldn’t reconcile, saying he would make it quick because he still loved me. I knew that was a complete lie on both fronts. It was long and messy. Some really horrible things came to light that just confirmed everything for me. Yes, the sexual basement. When a partner centers his life around sex like that, you have to truly weigh if there’s a future together. For me, there wasn’t.

We wrote the agreement to remove all need for ongoing contact even though that was rough for a time for me. And “of course,” he made me out to be the crazy one, insisting that I and the “crooked” lawyers made it long. No, both lawyers figured it out and got it done, thankfully. His attorney would even send messages through my attorneys to say that he felt sorry for me and was doing his best to get my STBX out of my life.

I’m semi-retired and financially secure. Both kids had some issues but came through it all fine and are working professionals. We are not at all in contact with him.

Last edited 1 month ago by Elsie_
Cam
Cam
1 month ago

Everybody else here has covered the priorities (protecting the kids, getting a divorce), but I want to address the porn stuff for the older folks who may not realize just how extreme and violent this industry has become even in the last decade since this post first aired.

We are long, long past the days of Playboy spreads. Porn is now abundant, cheap, and easily available on any laptop or mobile device.

It’s also more violent and degrading than anything you might’ve seen a generation or two ago. Pornhub, the world’s largest provider of porn, is now being sued because it’s hosted rape videos of trafficked women (AND CHILDREN) on their site: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/22/tech/pornhub-sex-trafficking/index.html.

This is hardly an anomaly. The porn industry targets vulnerable young women – often still in their teens and struggling with addiction – and gives them little to no say in what happens onscreen. The violence and degradation onscreen is real, up to strangulation and gang rape.

Google Gail Dines for more info on this evil industry. It’s pimping with extra steps. Men run the industry and profit on it at the expense of women who are often too young to know what they’re getting into.

My view is there is no such thing as ethical porn (maybe if it’s homemade but even then, there’s too much risk for my blood). This generation’s porn is also highly addictive, and younger men are increasingly thinking porn is real life and that women really do want to be abused in bed.

I also think it’s 100% cheating, and it’s crazy we even have to wonder if it is. Men would lose their minds if their wives were watching videos of other men, let alone if they were shirking their responsibilities to the marriage or household to do it.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

Of course they would! It’s still one rule for them, another rule for us as far as I can see, not just in Islamic countries where women get stoned to death for being raped either, the old double-standard is alive and well in the West too, only it’s covert! We women have been conned into thinking we’ve got “equality” because we usually continue to work for an employer whether we’re mothers or not ( and working class women do so out of financial necessity, not for love of their “careers” ) have artifical contraception and legal abortion so we can have sex left , right and centre and who has that really benefitted? Men! They can shag all around them without the inconvenience of being a dad for as long as they want, and more and more women have fallen for it, including me for a long time! Now even if men do get married, a lot of them clearly think they can continue to shag all around them without consequence as well, and when the consequences DO hit them, oh don’t we see some tantrums!!!

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Shadow

I mean, birth control and abortion are significant game changers for women’s social and economic empowerment. There’s a reason the right wing is trying to roll those advancements back in the U.S., even women’s ability to get a no fault (i.e. doesn’t require the husband’s permission) divorce.

I agree though, the sex revolution fell short because it focused on men’s pleasure and didn’t discuss women’s at all. Researcher Shere Hite tried and Hugh Hefner ran her out of the country on a rail. Nor did it address meaningful social safety nets that would overwhelmingly ease women’s burdens, like state-funded childcare.

I’m very skeptical of so-called feminist movements that say women can “shag their way to empowerment”, which is just a nice way of usually still prioritizing male pleasure. Real women’s empowerment requires equity, money, and personal autonomy – including women’s right to reject men.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

I’m unapologetically pro-life,have been since I was 15 and old enough to understand the full implications, but I won’t get into it here save to say my son’s conception was a “crisis” for me at the time but thankfully, abortion was out of the question for me and, despite 9 years of being a single mu with very little support and a very tiny income, he’s turned out to be one of my greatest blessings. TBH, if I hadn’t him, I’d have cracked because what my STBX did and how it’s upended my life!
I wouldn’t ever condemn a woman for using artificial contraception because these days, it’s so hard to be a mother, and they’ve made it so deliberately. It seems to me it’s not safe to get involved with most men these days either, and I always wanted a daughter but now I’m sort of relieved I haven’t, because I’d be so scared for her in todays hyper-sexualised society that , as far as I can see, has objectified women and girls more that ever before. In today’s social climate, I agree women really do need their own finances and to be able to support themselves and an children they may have, by themselves.
At the core of this IMO is the devaluation of motherhood, (another form of misogyny) and of children. Long term I think it would be highly beneficial to women and children if motherhood were honoured as the crucial job it really is and I believe feminism has failed us in this regard. TBH I would go so far as to say we should be paid for being mothers, because it IS work, as most of us know, and that would free up so many mothers trapped in abusive relationships who have no means of earning enough to buy a house and fully support themselves and their children alone. I have done it for 9 years on State Benefits, which were a pittance. I can’t break even now though, I’m just not getting enough and need at least another 100 Euro P/W to do so, so I imagine it’s harder than ever for single mums to manage if they’ve no support like I didn’t, but why does the answer always have to be to force them into slogging for an employer and farming their kids out to paid carers, when in most cases, the best carer for a child is his or her own mother? I think if a mother WANTS to work and it’s worth her while, then it’s not my place to say she shouldn’t, but in my case and so many cases, it not only wouldn’t have paid me, it was just impossible. Most working mums I came across had their own mothers, or MILs at hadn to child-mind or at least pick up the slackduring school holidays or when a child was ill and had to stay at home. I didn’t have that and I’m sure I am not the only one. I am worried that too much emphasis on paid-childcare so mothers can work, with no viable choice to stay and rear her own children, is going to put mothers who are like I was in impossible postitions, and utterly devalues the contribution that mothers make to society. Mothering IS work, honourable, vital work, it just doesn’t make a direct profit for an employer, nor help fill government coffers with taxes.
I’ve waffled on a bit here, fair play if anyone manages to read it all.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

Did you read the series of news stories about very young teen girls ending up with damaged colons and on colostomy bags for the rest of their lives because they thought their porn-addled boyfriends had the right to demand anal sex?

After reading this I did some research and discovered to my surprise that roughly half of gay men don’t engage in anal sex because of the risk of injury. It sounds like quite a complicated activity that one has to actually buy equipment and “train” for. I can understand why a lot of people just throw up their hands and forego the whole rigmarole.

I’ve heard a few women defend the activity though I’m sure those individuals were very careful about who and how. But all the same I have to wonder if the only “excitement” some women get out of it is a performative, psychological sense of pushing boundaries (being “naughty” or doing something their partners think is “hot”) because women don’t even have prostate glands to make the act physically gratifying.

The greater part of sexual excitement is psychological anyway so to each their own. But though I don’t have any particular prohibitions about what adults choose to do to themselves, it’s obviously quite harmful that porn is normalizing such a high risk sex act without including caveats and safety information.

weedfree
weedfree
1 month ago

I went to training on non lethal strangulation last year. The facilitators commented that increasing numbers of women were coming forward disclosing NLS, particularly during sex where consent was muddy, and also not by coincidence NLS so frequently appears in porn it doesn’t have its own stand alone category anymore. So porn normalises nearly killing your partner. I wonder if that is true also for gay porn. Dont know.
In my state NLS is now a stand alone crime, although consent can be raised as a defence.
And BTW anyone who has ever had NLS happen to them please see your doctor, as the injuries aren’t always visible. My friend had a massive stroke several months after NLS and 4 years later has very little speech and partial paralysis down one side of her body.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  weedfree

I’m so sorry about your friend. Unfortunately I’ve heard many growing cases of women dying or becoming disabled after men strangled them in bed.

Porn normalizes sexual assault. It’s a public health crisis.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago

I’ve actually known gay men who would not do anal because it’s really not good for a lot of people and can cause real damage if you don’t do it right. There’s a lot of other things you can do if you really care about and desire each other. I understand men’s anal tissues are much sturdier than women’s so they can take a pounding that we can’t, but as you say, we don’t have any equipment back there so unless you really like the feeling of not being able to unload that turd….I don’t get it. It’s terrible that young women are falling for this baloney but the boys are getting the idea from porn. And they figure it’s a way not to get pregnant and I don’t think that’s true either, it’s a slippery slope from the A to the V.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago

Did you read the series of news stories about very young teen girls ending up with damaged colons and on colostomy bags for the rest of their lives because they thought their porn-addled boyfriends had the right to demand anal sex?

I haven’t read the series you’re probably thinking of, but I’m aware it’s a growing problem and that women are suffering catastrophic injuries – not just from anal sex but other forms of dangerous, even violent sex from pornsick men who think this shit is the norm. Seems like I can’t go a day online without reading about another woman complaining her boyfriend strangled her because he saw it in porn.

Re your question, a lot of women will defend our own abuse and claim to enjoy it because we’re socialized to cater to men even to our own detriment. You’d be surprised how many sex workers have told me (sincerely) their jobs were empowering while in the same breath related to me the chronic, horrific sexual violence they’ve endured from johns.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cam
OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

“a lot of women will defend our own abuse and claim to enjoy it because we’re socialized to cater to men even to our own detriment. You’d be surprised how many sex workers have told me (sincerely) their jobs were empowering while in the same breath related to me the chronic, horrific sexual violence they’ve endured from johns.”

100% true.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 month ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yay, I hope she agrees.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Fantastic! I hope she agrees.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

YESSSSSSSSS. Thank you!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 month ago

The post is 9 years old and a lot of info has come out about the hideous world of streaming porn since. Like credit card companies divesting because Pornhub and other online porn companies couldn’t provide age certification for performers after so many turned out not to be “fake teens” or “barely legal” as assumed but trafficked children as young as ten or fourteen; that many of the simulated rapes depicted are actually real rapes; that performers– many of whom are subsisting in third world and former Eastern Bloc countries and many who are severely addicted to the painkillers they take to withstand the violent acts they’re subjected to on camera– can’t object or complain lest they get blacklisted from the industry; that a certain percentage of performers in current streaming content are already dead from terrifying rates of violence, overdose and suicide.

The above doesn’t even get into how most of the sex acts depicted are degrading with coercive and abusive themes and the studies that show that viewing this material tends to violentize and increase the risk of viewers committing sexual abuse and rape. Then there’s emerging research about how the availability of streaming porn may be permanently altering sexual templates and functioning, particularly in children, to the point that ED rates among 18 to 30 year olds have skyrocketed astronomically. Then there’s the emerging research showing that online porn can be a gateway to pedophilia since a huge percentage of content purports to depict minors (many of whom are minors).

It’s gotten so bad that liberal humanists and free speech champions like Noam Chomsky and Chris Hedges have come out against it.To quote Andrea Dworkin’s former husband and feminist ally Prof. John Stoltenberg, at this point porn is so heinous that investing in it would be “like buying Krugerrands in Apartheid South Africa.” And I think it’s perfectly justifiable to divorce someone based on their support for and participation in politically, humanistically heinous activities like sending money to neoNazis.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago

As the human brain doesn’t complete it’s development until we’re 25, the idea of all those developing brains of teenagers and even children being biologically shaped by porn, especially this most depraved types of it, is horrifying. Their brains will be laying down neural pathways that will orientate them towards the depraved and perverted and violent, and the neural pathways needed to form loving, safe and committed sexual relationships, of the sort needed for successful marriage and rearing of children, will either be incomplete, improperly formed or won’t be formed at all.
I have read over and over again that most women in the sex industry have a history of CSA. This would mean that everyone who uses porn, even if it is not showing children or underage teenagers, or violence, is colluding with, (maybe even accessory to?) CSA after the fact, albeit unwittingly. But there comes a point where , as we have the knowledge of the entire human race at our finger tips, not knowing about this horrific reality may not be the defence it once may have been. That’s how I see it anyway. The fact that so many SWs are nowadays not in it by choice, either because of their age or because they’ve been trafficked/enslaved, makes it all so, so, so much worse!

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I read that New York Times article when it first came out. Horrifying stuff.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago

When I married 2nd cheater, I knew zero about porn until a phone bill arrived with a bill for phone talks with woman. When confronted, my them husband said he’d been involved as a teen and it was harmless, but sorry it bothers you, you are my #1. I then visited SA meetings, read Patrick Carnes books and thought most everyone was involved? So accepted it as” normal “and asked to never see it laying around. Then came the computer age and undercover. No I never saw it but I began to be treated more and more like an object. It’s hard to describe but I felt like I was competing for the prize of him and I WAS NEVER EVER ENOUGH. He bought frilly underware at Walmart( frugal guy) and up”d his demands ” since we are at a B&B and i bought you Walmart outfits..YOU OWE ME NOW! . He was never happy, never. Then ED stepped up and I was blamed for that, i was blamed in an underhanded way and then it was obviously and fully blamed. See, YOU FORCED ME to find others that will do what i say!!!I was useful and a tool. He became so selfish, entitled and mean until I could see he was doing other woman. 2 or 10 i have no idea. It might seem acceptable at first, but porn is habitual and it does not stay in its cage. It destroyed our tender love, it destroyed our intimacy, it made him selfish and demanding and finally cheating with a harem was all that helped temporarily. They always seem to need a front wife or woman to stay semi respectable. That was me for many years. I was so hurt as a spiritual, gentle woman and his habit was slowly destroying all we had built as a couple and family. He was inappropriate with my daughter and she left home. It is unbelievable what a porn habit spills over too. I am stricken by what was acceptable to me. Now that i.am free I don’t know who i was. So afraid, so trapped by vows that I kept and he did not. I read 6 out of 10 men do porn. Are there any good men who are porn free? All I know is that it slowly eroded my precious self and to be untouched and solo in this world is heaven. My opinion is that porn itself may seem harmless and everyone does it, but it grows as it’s fed and enters quickly into a more complex animal. I think as a society and as a woman, that we are in trouble and true love and intimacy is facing a firing squad. READY, AIM….

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

Great post, very insightful! Everything is so true but I especially like the point about needing the front wife to seem “semi-respectable”. So true. I guess she’s the head girl in the harem whatever that position is called. Eff that noise!

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

That was an incredible post. I went through a lot of the same things you did, though I did not know about the porn at all. I was baffled as to why he was treating me like an object, why he was becoming sexually dysfunctional. His porn related sexual problem wasn’t ED, it was delayed ejaculation. He never said he blamed me. He just cheated and secretly hated me, treated me like shit while insisting he loved me.

I agree with all your conclusions about porn. It does not stay in the cage. It has destroyed sex for women. There was a study that showed 77% of British women had been choked, called disgusting names or spat on during sex. That stuff comes directly from porn. This is why I don’t date. The odds are insurmountable. From stats I’ve seen it’s a lot higher than 60%.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

“There was a study that showed 77% of British women had been choked, called disgusting names or spat on during sex. That stuff comes directly from porn.”

THANK YOU, OHFFS!!! Yes, this shit comes directly from porn along with the anal and requests for multiple partner sex. I’m in my late 60s and what was porn when I was a young woman is NOTHING like what it is now. Now the porn I’ve seen is aggressive, frequently violent, and degrading to women, both to the women who participate in the filming who frequently are forced or manipulated into things WAY beyond their comfort zones, to women in real life whose men think this is what sex is. I think part of it is generalized anger against women because of feminism but part of it also is that young men are now conditioned to think that THIS IS WHAT SEX IS. And it’s so far from that and most of it is so repellent to women. I think people who say that porn is okay are thinking about old time porn which was basically pretty vanilla sex with good looking people and sexy scenarios, unlike the porn of today many of which could depict (and the actresses say they sometimes ARE) rape scenes. I can’t think of any scenario in which I would find being choked “sexy” and any man who spit on me is gonna get a knuckle sandwich where it hurts. It’s become unhealthy and as others here have said, it can expand into things like Only Fans contact and exchanging gifts/money, etc. It’s really unhealthy and not at all loving – or to me – sexy.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

ITA.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I so appreciate your affirmation as there are very few places to tell my story. It’s like taking a cute yellow baby python home, keeping it in your bedroom and feeding it tiny mice every day. Soon you need white mice and then hunks of meat. One day that cute yellow python knocks the lid off its cage and does what pythons do. Except it’s not just going to wrap around only the python owner, no…it’s coming for you too. I was treated like a street walker by a man who knelt with me in church. He fed the python and i was a co- addict helping to feed his python as well. Until it was almost too late for me. I was saved, I pray for all the others. It does not get better nor stay a cute little couples thing…no it does not. It had claws.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

I love the python analogy. The only part about it that doesn’t work is that, if anything, porn abuse tends to shrink the old pocket python due to ED which can reportedly increase the risk of developing peyronie’s disease due to increasingly frantic masturbation.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago

Yes!! My xhcheater was 61 and more and more frantic that ‘with me” nothing was working right and he could not get anything to happen for 45 min to am hour or more. I allowed these efforts and was so understanding and giving. But in his mind he felt it worked better witg strangers. My python analogy includes the results of long term aggressive masterbation that just wore out that muscle IMO or something close to that. A normal romp in the hay did nothing for him and he needed an oil pump,, like with deep sea suction to have any results. I’ll look up that disease but something does happen using hands for years on end and a woman can not do enough no matter what. It’s a sorry state a man ends up in for years of mental watching fairytales and then mechanical failure.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

It sounds like they end up reaping what they’ve sewn! They make an idol of their man bits and it gradually works less and less and, in extreme cases like these, becomes damaged and/or diseased! I don’t feel terribly sympathetic!

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

That is true about frequent “death grip” masturbation insuring that intercourse doesn’t work for a man anymore. Then they start to want anal intercourse because of the tighter grip thing. What makes me sad is all the women claiming they like anal sex. It isn’t true. They are trying to please men and lying to themselves. Anal sex is damaging and dangerous. For men it stimulates the prostate, but it does nothing for women sexually. FW asked for it once and my no was firm and final. He never dared to ask again. A lot of women give in just to keep a partner, because they know the next guy they date will just demand it too. That’s got to stop. It’s better to be single forever than give in to the demands of porn sickos.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I agree! I can’t think of anything about anal that I could possibly like. The very idea repulses me.
MY STBX started to nag me for it in the early days of seeing each other, until I told him to stop asking or I’d fall out with him! He never mentioned it again until the last week he was living here when he made such a disgusting, shockingly obscene comment, it reinforced to me that he was up to no good and was a degenerate. I just blanked him and he didn’t say anything about it again and never will now, or not to me anyway! It’s a disturbing thought to think that he’s been seeking out barely legal girls probably because they’re more likely to let him do that to them because it’s been so normalised! Shudder! I should have seen it as a big red flag all those years ago, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? My boundaries weren’t what they should have been but they bloody well are now!

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

It occurs to me that maybe that’s what the real concern about men masturbating a lot in the past was about – not that they were too interested in sex or were going to turn into werewolves, but that they could overuse this technique and then not be interested in normal marital sex. Our ancestors weren’t so dumb.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Indeed. In fact, it’s occurred to me as I’ve become more and more religious, that what we have been told from the 1960s onwards was “repressive” and “unhealthy” attitude to sex, was actually just very firm boundaries intended for the long term good, of most people, especially the vulnerable. It was also common sense in that it was to help keep STDs and crisis pregancies lower plus help preserve marriages and uphold the idea of the necessity of fidelity. Basically, the only ones it was really “repressing” were the sexually deviant and the entitled, the ones who blabbed on about “free love” when what they really meant was free sex, and sex without responsibility and love was NOTHING to do with it! We see how that’s affected our society now, and we have all felt the pain and grief of how it’s affected our lives and the lives of children!

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Shadow

I 100% agree, I think in many ways we have to go back to earlier attitudes about sex – many of them were about setting boundaries, actually protecting women and kids, and promoting healthy marriages and communities. We’ve lost all that in the quest for absolute sexual freedom which doesn’t work in practice. You need discipline, rules and stability.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

So THAT’S what the anal is about! I had one guy who kept asking for this over and over and I’m like….you’re not doing that and what’s wrong with the vajayjay? I figured it had something to do with tightness but it was just not appealing to me at all and I had to end the whole thing because he was so insistent. Every time I went to sleep he’d be poking me in the ass. No way, pal – Fort Knox is easier to get into! I really DO learn something new every day, LOL, thanks OHFFS!!! Also – I agree, I don’t think most women are interested in this – a few might, I personally have never known a woman who really wanted to do this. As you say, the ones who do, do it because the man is so insistent and they don’t want to lose him or be seen as a “prude”. I don’t know what the hell is so wrong with being a prude but it sounds like it’s become a worse word in our society than “cheater”.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

I does, doesn’t it? I’ve read so many women online defensively stating they’re “not a prude” and it’s always followed with a “but…” and I think, why are you feeling you have to justify your perfectly reasonable, and sometimes what I would consider, could do with being more stringent, sexual boundaries! Since when was being sexually continent, and, God forbid, chaste and modest, considered a vice! The answer I would imagine, is from the sexual “revolution” of the 60s onwards, with their “free love” bollix!
If I’m seen as a prude, good! It means my boundaries have become better!

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Shadow

It means you know what you want and what you don’t want and you can stand up for yourself and say no. Much of the sexual establishment (if I can term it as such) does not want us to say that. We’re supposed to be like robots or sex dolls. I don’t want to leave men out of this conversation too because they are likely affected negatively by this too – I think this promiscuity/do anything mentality has really hurt the relationship between the sexes – but women/children are obviously more vulnerable because of physical and functional reasons (size and pregnancy, etc). I think the boundaries were originally set to protect US by giving men rules to behave by and how to treat women and giving women the firm ability to say NO or give a good slap in the face to men who persisted beyond the boundaries.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

I agree! It’s not so much that we were made to be “sexual gatekeepers” or not allowed to enjoy sex or have a sexuality as the simple facts that we are much more sexually vulnerable than men and potentially pay a higher price. I really am of the opinion that the sexual revolution was for men to get easy sex without responsibility and without the bother of having to form a loving, committed relationship with one woman. Then the FW still marries because of his own selfish motives, but still feels entitled to the easy sex without responsibility. It has enabled many more of them to continue to live in the fantasy that they’re forever young and care-free when they are dallying with the OW/ Women, it feeds their Peter Pan complexes, especially those that go for women much younger than themselves.
I watched a video on YT in the Summer that was exploring whether Peter Pan was a demonic figure. It came to the conclusion he was, and Wendy was just of use to him. Funny how so many of our FWs are Peter Pans and how they want us to be Wendys, so I tend to agree with the conclusion and the sexual revolution has exacerbated this social problem I think. I’d recommend watching the vid if you can find it.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  OHFFS

My xhusbandcheater wanted OS during covid and I declined. He began to get enraged and blamed his cheating on me 100%because of this. I had told him a story my girlfriend shared who said her husband ONLY wanted OS 100% of the time. I told my XHC that would never be me. That sex was for 2 peoples enjoyment, not just his. OK once in awhile if i was in agreement. All the coercion that followed was due to this one note of a demand. He had lost almost all his functioning by then and was hurting me in many ways due to his losses. It was a sad end to a sweet beginning 32 years before.

ChumpedAndDumped
ChumpedAndDumped
1 month ago

My ex was interested in viewing porn. I wasn’t addicted as far as I could tell, but this behavior had an consequence that was annoying a the time, but I can see it as an atypical result of porn viewing that is slightly more amusing now. She had gone to a site where that provided a download for a media viewer, which turned out to be vector for a computer virus, which infected her computer. I was tasked to fix the problem, since IT is my profession, and I spent several profanity-laced hours expunging her system.

She was apologetic, much more so than after her affair. I’m not sure that her porn-viewing was a red flag, but maybe it was a sign that she was interested in sexual adventures outside the marriage.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago

Lot to unpack here but first off, if someone marries you under false pretenses in the Catholic Church I’m pretty sure you can get an annulment, even in a case like this where she had a first one. This guy married her with the understanding of no porn so I think she has a case. If that’s a deal breaker for her she should go for the annulment.

Porn now is not like porn decades, or even years ago. Porn used to be naked pics, sleazy scenarios (UPS has a big package for YOU!) and basic in and out or bjs. It’s so much more graphic and extreme now and it seems to be filled with violence or extreme behavior especially towards women. A lot of things that I think personally are inherently unhealthy esp in a relationship like anal (no, most women do NOT want anal and our tissues are a lot more delicate than guys – AND we have a front “hole” anyway) and multiple partners, which many female porn stars say can be actual rape on camera, are being pushed. Then the men think this is normal behavior or they’re conditioned to like things that are really unacceptable to most women and unhealthy aggressive behaviors. If a man watches enough of this, he can become conditioned to only respond sexually to this kind of stuff and most women just don’t want this. It normalizes a lot of things – BDSM is another – that most people are not that interested in or it gets out of hand. I’m not a prude, far from it, but this stuff is unattractive and unwholesome to me and it seems to become an obsession with this guys and it tends to escalate over time. It can make normal relations difficult or impossible for some guys. It also affects their ideas of what people should look like or how they should act generally – not just the literal sex acts but the presentations around it. Like what you should say to each other, how loud you should be, what you wear, etc. None of this has anything to do with LOVE, INTIMACY OR RESPECT. The keystones of any relationship.

I think modern porn truly objectifies women (I can’t speak to gay porn of course, I’ve never watched that) but I think it is degrading to the actresses involved, many of whom are damaged people to begin with and/or trafficked or on drugs, and it’s degrading to the women who are expected to act like this. Porn HAS become a real problem with images and expectations. Many women don’t feel like they can say no to watching this crap or doing things that are in it because the men are so accustomed to it now and then they complain that you’re too vanilla, too dull, too boring….when you what you really are is…..TOO NORMAL. So many women are pressured into doing sexual things they really don’t want to just to keep their man and this extends beyond porn stuff as well.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

You’ve made a good point that the OP could seek an annulment from the RCC, as her H did not intend sexual fidelity because he never intended to give up looking at porn. The 3 requirements for a valid Roman Catholic marriage are:-

  1. Permanence- both spouses must intend to stay married until death.
  2. Life long fidelity- not just no sex with anyone else but your spouse for as long as ye are both alive, but no indulgence of lustful thoughts or feelings towards anyone else either.
  3. Openess to life- i.e. both spouses must be open to the conception, birth and rearing of children, and both must be physically capable of sexual intercourse. Artificial contraception is considered a Mortal sin but NFP is acceptable and if either spouse is infertile that does not make the marriage invalid either, but being physically unable to have sexual intercourse does make it invalid.

In cases where a spouse is intent on continuing to look at porn when they marry, the 2nd requirement to a valid Catholic marriage is not fulfilled and thus, is grounds for annulment. The OP’s H looking at women other than his wife with lust in his heart, which Jesus said in the Gospel IS adultery. So, that’s straight from God Himself and thus, the RCC would regard it as adultery too, or they should!
I’ve just sent off one of my forms for annulment but had an email this morning saying I’d forgotten to include one of the forms I should have! Oh ‘eck! I’ve a head like a sieve at times, so I’ll have to get on with that! My grounds are also that my STBX did not intend life-long fidelity to me at the time of our wedding nor ever had, and his fondness for porn will be offered as evidence of this. I suspect I’ll feel a bit sad once it’s granted, as an annulment is even more of an ending than a divorce really, as it says ye were never really married in the first place. But then, seeing as how many FWs we read about on here seem to have never intended to be faithful spouses when they got married, and turn out to be serial cheats, maybe most of CN should seek annulments? The grounds for legal annulments are different to RCC grounds though. I’ve looked into it and if I could, I’d seek a legal annulment as well, but it seems I’ll have to just make do with a Church annulment and then maybe divorce when we’re allowed,… if it’s in my interests or seems necessary!

Daughterofachump
Daughterofachump
1 month ago
Reply to  Shadow

Yes, get a legal divorce too so you are no longer legally tied to the FW in any way, shape, or form. I don’t know how it works where you are, but, to give 1 example in the US, your spouse is your next of kin and might make medical decisions for you if you’re disabled.

Shadow
Shadow
1 month ago

Oooh, well I don’t want that!! When I was in hospital in the Summer, my son was with me and nothing was said about the STBXH , so I don’t know if he’s down as my NOK or not, but I can’t have it!
We have to wait 2 years to day from when we have first separated before we can seek divorce here in Ireland!

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago

In thinking about modern porn, it occurs to me that perhaps part of it is not only an escalation to seem more daring or extreme to get viewers, but perhaps also a reaction to feminism – that for some men this kind of porn is about getting CONTROL of the woman and the relationship. Getting her to submit, to want to be man handled, to wanting what the MAN may fantasize about, perhaps multiple partners, but as I said, it’s not about love or intimacy or respect. I think, speaking as a woman, just listening to Barry White is far sexier than any porn out there and being told how much we are cherished, how beautiful our lady parts are, going slow and easy, at least at the start, and just generally making us feel loved and cherished and safe, is a hell of a lot sexier than whips and chains and butt fucking. Make your spouse feel like a god or goddess in bed and you’re gonna get a good response. And also, if you suck in other areas of life and don’t treat your spouse well….that’s not gonna change when you get into bed….someone you’ve been shitting on all week isn’t gonna turn on the electricity because you got into bed. It doesn’t work that way.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

That’s why they HAVE to find new people to start over with. The woman at home says NO

justme
justme
1 month ago

YES! Porn is just an affaire with thousands instead of one at a time. Porn use and sexually acting out is abuse. Period. End of sentence. The only site I have come across that speaks to this is BTR.org. Check it out. Otherwise, keep reading here. The lying, gaslighting, and image management occurs with all forms of abuse. My stbx spent 900$ in one month on his porn addiction. You are more than justified in filing for a divorce. The diverted attention, being ignored ,and treated like you are not enough are not worth the feelings of rejection, lowered self-esteem, and stress. Invest in yourself and your children. You all are worthy of love and support. Him? Not so much. Good luck.

hush
hush
1 month ago
Reply to  justme

💯 BTR.org (Betrayal Trauma Recovery) is a fantastic resource for women who have been cheated on particularly by husbands using porn. Very affordable trauma counseling sessions and a really helpful podcast are some of the help they have to offer.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  justme

Anyone who argues porn isn’t cheating or abuse is being disingenuous. Men everywhere would lose their minds if their wives were getting off to videos of strange men, let alone stealing marital funds to do it.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  justme

They DO.NOT. LOVE YOU. YOU ARE OF USE

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  justme

Whoa, yeah — “Porn is an affair with thousands instead of one at a time.”

I think that’s some of the appeal. Online, they can browse for whoever and whatever they want, and if they don’t like one, they can find something “better.” My ex also claimed he was “learning for our bedroom,” which I objected to but never could argue him out of. There was a time when he said that unless you do “X” I will never sleep with you again. He kind of rethought that, but then he was also openly going to a local massage parlor that was known for happy endings. I also objected to that. Then we split long-distance, so I figured he was doing more of the same, if not more, without my prying eyes.

Anyway, so very GLAD to get out of that insanity.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Elsie_

My XHCheater DEMANDED. That put the nail in the coffin for me

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

I did a huge amounts of journalling about everything after my ex took off, and it was so very clear that his feelings of entitlement were a big part of the problem, particularly in the bedroom.

Ah, nope. Let me go.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Elsie_

Where does Entitlement come from? IMO it comes from porn and others saying yes. That is how my Cheater x started his faster slide to arrogance. Porn, then phone porn( early 2000), then ALL. The woman at work adore him, then woman at work talking to him…then action. Oh massages too because of his back. I Told myself he was like every man which is what he told me.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

Part of my ex’s entitlement was religious. Basically his family viewed males as infallible, and if they were going astray, they made the women responsible. They told me over and over that we separated because of my lack of godly submission and poor performance in the bedroom. They also completely ignored his addiction and documented mental health problems.

Then the porn made him sexually entitled.

Just no path forward.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Elsie_

My xHcheater used the church as his springboard and the pastors fell in line. No man should be alone and an OW after I filed was ” considered “necessary ” by the men on the board. My then husband described me as damaged and I could not satisfy his needs. What man wouldn’t agree with that?

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

Our long-term church actually got it, thankfully, and never pushed me to reconcile. The leadership felt that the abandonment was such a serious blow to the kids and me that he had effectively ended the marriage then. I told them of my suspicions that adultery was involved, and they got that he was running away to live like a single man and commented on that.

Mostly, they just listened and organized practical help at times. It was 100% my choice to refuse reconciliation and retain an attorney when I felt it was time. They never questioned that at all.

But his religious family encouraged the long-distance move and then heaped the blame on me as the failure point.

Just so very off.

SecondSelf
SecondSelf
1 month ago

I haven’t logged on to the new comment site since we had to sign in, but I HAVE to comment on this one. This is my story in so many ways, complete with the brother of my ex having been indicted for molesting one of my kids. But that’s a story for another day. Today is the story of porn. I’m so saddened, angered, heart broken for all the pain that porn causes. The stories of children and others being abused to manufacture porn make me want to scream. It might be the thing in life that most makes me burn with fury. But I want to set even that aside for a minute to focus on the basics of CL. If your partner is hiding something from you, lying to you about it, making broken promises to change or get better and not following through, does it matter if it is about porn or gambling or fixing up old cars? My ex would stay up until 3 in the morning watching hours and hours of porn, hiding his computer history, gaslighting me that nothing was going on, and being absentee at family events because he was sleeping it off. For YEARS I put up with it because I bought that it wasn’t actually cheating, and I was serious about keeping my wedding vows. He always told me I was too demanding and I needed to accept this is just how men are. It was all a lie. When he moved on from “just” porn to visiting massage parlors and spending thousands of dollars for whatever it was that was happening, I finally got a clue and asked him to leave because for me he had thankfully crossed a line. But I got stuck in the “is porn cheating” question for a long, long time. Its the wrong question. Is this relationship acceptable? is a better question. I should have left the minute there was lying and gaslighting rampantly targeting me. The key thing is we were never in a relationship. I was never valued or even recognized as a person, which he actually said to me as things were falling apart. He told me more about the massage parlor escapades because he realized I deserved to know because I was a person. He said it like this was a mind blowing realization. I was just a thing, a prop in his porn-fueled fantasies and a source of income and social credibility. Step back from the porn question, and look at everything else in the “relationship.” The porn thing will resolve itself.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  SecondSelf

The cycle of abuse held me. So awful then so sweet…so disgusting then you are my only love, flowers chocolate. My head and heart disconnected like
an old train and I left my brain behind in the shed for too many years.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  SecondSelf

Excellent comment! I agree with everything you said so well. The porn industry degrades the people involved with it, especially women and – God forbid – children – that they use. The children are obviously illegal and abused….but so are most of the adult actresses. I’ve read several interviews over the years where some of the actresses talk about how they were abused, manipulated, raped on camera, made to do things they did not want to, many are on drugs and damaged people to begin with who are taken advantage of. Porn is like the epitome of what so much of sex-romantic relationships have become in our society over the past few decades – TRANSACTIONAL. Not based on love, intimacy, respect, need, security – any wholesome emotions. It’s all about using someone else to get our yayas out and that is inherently wrong. I never objected to the nude pics or basic porn I saw when I was young back when the dinosaurs roamed, but that was basically in and out and bjs and sexy scenarios…..not the kind of extreme stuff they show now which IS inherently unhealthy and has a bad effect on those who view it. The men become too used to it and can’t perform without it, or they escalate their behavior because addicts need more and more drugs to get the same high, or they objectify their women and you have to act like these poor degraded porn “stars” and that is SO unsexy for most women. And so many women feel pressured into looking or acting like this because it’s been normalized for the men. WE NEED TO GET AWAY FROM TRANSACTIONAL SEX and looking at others in a transactional way – what I can get out of you for whatever – usually money. This is a society on the downslide if this is how we view each other, and I am not even talking about the ring of hell that involves sexualizing children. We have to move away from all this, it’s soul destroying.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

P.S. It’s not something “men” always do…..what the hell did they do before computers and mass media? Hang around the town water well?

FYI_
FYI_
1 month ago

Would really love an update from this LW, especially.

Chump-Domain Cleric
Chump-Domain Cleric
1 month ago

As usual, Chump Lady is right on the money, but if I may add –

If the girls he is looking at are 16-17, THAT IS CHILD PORN. That is CP, plain and simple. Please, please report this. He’s a danger to your kids and any friends they bring over.

Please take care of yourself Hopeless Chump. Your situation may be difficult, but hopeless it is not. You just have to protect you and your kids. This is an awful situation for all of you to be stuck in, but I know you can crawl out of that dark pit he’s dug for your family. And if he chooses to stay in that pit, that’s his choice. Whatever help he gets has no bearing on you, whether or not he’s stronger or not – he’s ruined that relationship. There’s no fixing it. He’s willingly destroyed it. It’s time to walk away from the rubble.

As for my take on porn, should anyone want it… I have no problem with it conceptually. I have a problem with attitudes and the culture around it. (I also don’t think we’ll be able to fix many of the issues around sex work until we fix how society and our system views labor as a whole) But your mileage may vary.

I think, at least, everyone should have that discussion with partners. Are you okay with porn? What about sexting? Do you interact with the sex workers or just view it from afar? Everyone should really push the discussion of needs and boundaries BEFORE becoming intimate. What do you like? What do you expect? What are your kinks? Any hard lines? It helps a lot. FWs will lie, but hey, if you’ve found an honest person, it’ll make your relationship that much better, and if you find our you can’t meet each other’s needs, at least you found out sooner rather than later.

Last edited 1 month ago by Chump-Domain Cleric
Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago

“He’s a danger to your kids and any friends they bring over.”

Excellent point. He may not touch his own kids but maybe he would touch somebody ELSE’S or at least ogle them uncomfortably. This guy should not be around teenagers. I know it’s a very old post, but the point remains. Anyone who is attracted to kids or teens in porn might very well act out in some way IRL even if it’s not his OWN kids. He may well see his own kids as an extension of himself anyway.

Chump-Domain Cleric
Chump-Domain Cleric
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Yes, exactly! It’s also not unheard of for those types to target single mothers as partners, just so they get access to children… Terrifying.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

A therapist friend of mine knew how porn had derailed my marriage. He had seen it literally hundreds of times in his office because he counseled a lot of men over the years and not infrequently found that porn had sparked infidelity.

But he really keyed on the kid/teen porn aspect and said that sort of thing leads to acting out as well. Mic drop. He asked me if my ex was ever around younger relatives. Ah, yes. So horrifying to think about.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Elsie_

Where your brain goes, your body often follows.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

So true. I was truly so naive, but if you spend hours a day on porn -> your body will want more of that type of sexual stimulation.

Your spouse probably isn’t a porn star, but porn can set up for that expectation in the bedroom.

Or you watch kid/teen porn, and your body wants kid/teen sex.

Just pick, though.

Chump-Domain Cleric
Chump-Domain Cleric
1 month ago
Reply to  Elsie_

That may be the case for an amount of people, but I would say that of course your friend saw it often – they’re a therapist, so people will only really go to them when something is off the rails. That’s not to say that “porn culture” is healthy! Stealing of nonconsenting people’s pictures, sexual entitlement, the pick-me dancing that often comes with it… I’m simply saying, you’re a lot more likely to see something in a negative light when you work in that position. FWs will FW, even if they never have access to lewd pixels on a screen.

The CP is a completely different beast, though, and while I don’t think it creates the monster, I believe if you access CP, you are fully capable of hurting a minor. After all, you’re already doing so.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago

A suggestion for Chump Lady: might it be possible to have an update section if people write in after some period of time and let us know how they made out in their situations? Or if they need additional help, advice, comradeship, whatever. I often wonder how the Chumps in the initial posts made out.