Living Together Until Cheating Wife’s Affair Partner Is Free

cheating wife affair partner

He’s stuck in limbo living with his cheating wife until she and her affair partner can get an apartment together after he leaves his wife. It could be years. In-house separation, or whatever this is, is killing him.

***

Dear Chump Lady,

I need some real advice as I am not doing well.

I met my wife in 2000 and we married in 2003 and we have 2 girls ages 12 and 14. Our marriage has had its ups and downs and sadly is currently falling apart, which has me in a deep dark depression that I’m seeking counseling for.

In early 2021 my spouse stopped being intimate with me. She had turned 50 and was going through menopause and told me it had zapped her desire for sex. I could see she was going through a rough time so I didn’t push the topic too much but over the next few months when things didn’t change and she continued to avoid intimacy I begin to get a bit frustrated. I started to ask more and wonder why we couldn’t find an afternoon here or there to be alone and be together. Sadly she found excuses to brush it off and intimacy never came back.

In July of 2021 my requests for sex started to frustrate her and she said if I needed it that badly that she would be fine with me having an extramarital relationship with another women to satisfy my needs, which I thought very odd. Her excuse was that she wasn’t sure if desire for sex would return and if so when. I wasn’t sure if she was telling the truth or was testing me.

Eventually we hit a breaking point.

She sat me down and admitted to me the reason she was not allowing intimacy was because she had reconnected with a high school friend during Covid lockdown online and they bonded over what they felt were unhappy marriages. It went from an online connection to meeting to sexual intimacy and she capped it off by saying they were in love and he was her soul mate. I was blown away and wasn’t able to breathe. I left the house and didn’t come back for about 3 days.

When I did come home my wife advised she and her soul mate planned to get an apartment together and take my girls to live with them, which I had a real problem with. Obviously this was not well thought out on her part as she makes very little money and he (the affair partner) had not told his wife about the affair. After the two had some discussion her timeline changed although likely not at her choice. The AP seems to run the show.

As we jump to December of 2021 now, my wife and I are cohabitating and coparenting. This man my wife is apparently in love with is married, he has 5 kids that range from twins who are 7 years old to early high school aged children. He has not revealed his infidelity to his wife and has asked my spouse to be patient with him, so I understand as he wants to get some of these 5 kids up and out of high school before he tells his wife what’s going on and then moves on with my wife to a new public life I guess. I’m not sure if he’s being genuine or stringing my spouse along.

Yes, I’ve known since July my wife has had and is carrying on an affair.

I’ve asked her to stay or to seek counseling with me and she’s declined as she feels she loves this man. Yes we are still living together, again for various reasons most of which are due to my inability to see myself alone and ask her to leave and lose her and my kids.

This situation has broken me and I’m very depressed and in a bad place so I’ve tentatively agreed to remain together at home under this arbitrary 3 year timeline this man is looking for in a small hope the affair will die, the affair will be found out by the spouse or my wife will come around and choose me over him.

I realize it’s fantasy thinking and I need to fend for myself at the moment, but truly I am not near being emotionally ready to formally separate and divorce and move out to separate locations and lose my family.

I’m not sure what my question is here but I need help and guidance. I’m not doing well.

Guy Chump

***

Dear Guy Chump,

Yeah, I’m not surprised you’re not doing well. This is completely unsustainable. You know that, right?

I am not near being emotionally ready to formally separate and divorce and move out to separate locations and lose my family

You are not going to lose your family. You’re going to lose a fuckwit.

And it’s long overdue. I’m sorry.

Every single person here understands the cosmic injustice of this. Of losing time with your children. Of paying for the privilege. Grieving the intact family you so deeply invested in. Of being fed head-first into the meat-grinder of divorce.

And we will all tell you — through lived experience — how you are living now is WORSE.

There is so much wrong with this letter, I’m just going to dive into the clusterfuck line by line.

she would be fine with me having an extramarital relationship with another women to satisfy my needs which I thought very odd.

That was your clue (also played as Let’s Open Up the Marriage!) that she was cheating, you just didn’t get the memo.  These freaks often take your temperature about this. (Of course, there is a huge difference between a consensual open relationship and cheating.)

Eventually we hit a breaking point and she sat me down and admitted to me the reason she was not allowing intimacy was because she had reconnected with a high school friend during covid lockdown online and they bonded over what they felt were unhappy marriages.

So, she’s risking everyone’s life — your life, your children’s lives — during a global pandemic to fuck around?

Catch a lethal pathogen just as long as she isn’t Unhappy!

Christ on a ventilator. I can’t with these people.

When I did come home my wife advised she and her soul mate planned to get an apartment together and take my 2 girls to live with them which I had a real problem with.

LAWYER UP, MAN!

Obviously this was not well thought out on her part as she makes very little money and he (the affair partner) had not told his wife about the affair.

Stop sitting on the sidelines of your life and letting these fuckwits call the shots. YOU tell the chump wife, Guy. YOU DO IT. I’m sorry, is this all very inconvenient for them? Please get professional legal advice and start protecting yourself!

A) You should do this for your own mental health and self-respect, and B) You should do it because you have a window of opportunity. Let her think Married Dude is going to whisk her off to Never-Neverland. And get your goddamn settlement.

After the 2 had some discussion her timeline changed although likely not at her choice.

WHO THE FUCK CARES? I mean really, who cares if they run off at Summer Solstice, or wait until they can save up for a new futon at Ikea. She can make any fool plan she wants to — what is YOUR plan?

Sitting politely while they decide your fate?

No wonder you’re stress sick. THIS IS NOT OKAY. She is not going to see reason and start considering your feelings or your children’s. (See “Fucking Around During a Global Pandemic” above.) Take the reins!

The AP seems to run the show.

Yeah. He runs YOUR show. You okay with that? Is this acceptable to you?

You only control you. That’s it. You’re the only person who can save yourself and be a sane parent to your children. Please start advocating for that guy and fuck these people.

As we jump to December of 2021 now, my wife and I are cohabitating and coparenting.

Your wife is eating cake and you’re inquiring, “More frosting, dear?”

This man my wife is apparently in love with is married, he has 5 kids that range from twins who are 7 years old to early high school aged children. He has not revealed his infidelity to his wife and has asked my spouse to be patient with him

And she’s asked you to be patient with her, while she awaits fuckbuddy liberation.

This is so messed up.

Just because she’s entitled (and delusional), doesn’t mean you have to cater to her bullshit. Nor do you have to listen to the details of her affair!

He has not revealed his infidelity to his wife and has asked my spouse to be patient with him so I understand as he wants to get some of these 5 kids up and out of high school before he tells his wife what’s going on

Get a lawyer. Get your settlement. Then tell that chump woman and blow his shit up. What she does with that knowledge is her business, but she deserves to know the truth about her life.

I’m not sure if he’s being genuine or stringing my spouse along.

WHO CARES?!! Guy, I’m so upset with you for this sentence. It’s a view into your chump mind now, how beaten down you by your cheating wife and her affair partner. Oh, the poor moppet — might her Twu Wuv be stringing her along? Or will he do the Honorable Thing and abandon five children for her? #genuine

So yes, I’ve known since July my wife has had and is carrying on an affair. I’ve asked her to stay or to seek counseling with me and she’s declined as she feels she loves this man.

There’s your answer. The marriage is dead. Now bury the corpse and get on with your life.

I. Know. It’s. Hard.

Like, I created an entire blog to help people get to the other side of this. I’m not being flippant. I’m giving you the bitchslap you so badly need. As only a fellow chump can deliver it. (Which will probably be followed up with a hundred more CN bitchslaps.)

Yes we are still living together, again for various reasons most of which are due to my inability to see myself alone

You are alone.

You’re worse than alone. You’re being abused and continually devalued. And you’re taking it. Every day. Solo life is summer picnic compared with this.

ask her to leave and lose her and my kids

Please lose her. (She’s already gone, and Guy, please don’t want her back. PLEASE. You miss who you thought she was, not who she is.)

We always fear for our children in divorce. It stops people cold. But you cannot continue this way. I’m sorry she blew up your family. Don’t model dysfunction to your children. Get in front of this and see a lawyer. There are hundreds of thousands of chumps here who have survived half time with their children. I know it’s unjust. But it is also SANE. And peaceful. And free from chaos. Also, there is the possibility of a new loving partner someday.

You cannot keep living this way.

You may think you’re holding it together, but the threat of her flaking out or running off with your kids is always there. So PROTECT yourself and get a legal custody arrangement.

This situation has broken me and I’m very depressed and in a bad place so I’ve tentatively agreed to remain together at home under this arbitrary 3 year timeline this man is looking for in a small hope the affair will die, the affair will be found out by the spouse or my wife will come around and choose me over him.

You really want to sign up for three more years of brokenness? Why so passive? Why would you want to be Plan B?

The hopium is killing you. And I sense you’ve been on Reconciliation Industrial Complex sites (the AP for affair partner lingo). This whole, she’ll come out the affair fog and come back to me, bullshit.

They don’t come back, Guy. Except to abuse you further. Get out.

I’m not doing well.

Save yourself. You can do this. We’re here for you.

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Jennifer Abrams
Jennifer Abrams
2 years ago

Your marriage is over. She will never love you again and probably never really loved you. It’s better for your children for you to get a custody arrangement than for them to live in this household, to see you so depressed, her abusive, and to internalize this as an acceptable marriage.

Get out and build a new life. You’ll do fine. There are a lot more available women out there than men, so you’re lucky to at least be a male chump. You’ll definitely find someone who appreciates a faithful, caring, financially stable man. And you’ll be a lot happier.

But first you have to get a divorce & custody arrangement, then go no contact. You have to do the work. It’s like you have to go through college before getting a good career. Metaphorically, it’s time for you to go back to school. NOW. Get out.

DontFeelLikeDancin
DontFeelLikeDancin
2 years ago

Guy, Jennifer is spot on. What she says is true both in my experience and that of the guy Chump I’m seeing.

Don’t subject yourself to three years of limbo/purgatory PLEASE. I did 2 1/2 just waiting on FW to get his legal shit together. It is soul-killing. I am not the person I was.

Divorce is going to suck, no lie, but rip off that band-aid. Even if she comes back to you, do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is capable of hurting you like this? With someone who is capable of throwing you away and then expecting you to wait in case she feels like coming back to pick you up? NO, guy. You can’t un-know who she is. You are worth so much more than that.

Your kids are worth more than that. My older son has had a difficult time with divorce, but I wouldn’t go back to FW anything. DS was not doing great to start with, when FW was cheating and I didn’t know. At least today I have a hope that DS’s life will be better and more sane on the other side. Considering the age of your girls, NEVER think they won’t pick up on what’s going on. My nine year old boy was 100% aware of the tension and dynamic and it was 100% affecting him at school and home. Think about what you are teaching your beautiful children by staying in this unjust situation.

Live in truth, Guy Chump. Very very sincere best wishes to you and your girls.

DontFeelLikeDancin
DontFeelLikeDancin
2 years ago

*wouldn’t go back to FW for anything

the.truth.is.out.there
the.truth.is.out.there
2 years ago

Jennifer Abrams is so right!!!

From this time on the wife is an ex-wife emotionally. It’s the worst nut-kick of all time to have your entire life blown up like this. However, the other side of this is an outstanding new life.

Document everything! Go gray rock with her forever. Do ALL your financial homework. Be a complete silent ninja warrior of divorce. Process your emotions with fellow chumps and give it whatever time it needs. Juts don’t shre an ounce of emotion with the wife, ever again.

That bitch is your sworn enemy. Play it just right and save your life and make it better for your kids. F that bitch.

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
2 years ago

Guy Chump, this is spot on. You sound like a freaking Barbie Dream Date because you have the super power of empathy. You know what being cheated on feels like and to the enormous population of good, solid chump women who were dumped by some cheating, cake eating, mid life crisis asshat (like your STBX’s twu luv idiot AP) you are a prize.

Do not be afraid to go out and find a faithful companion, one who will value you and model good character to your kids. We are out here. Oh, and we won’t be withholding sex.

You can do this.

ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
2 years ago

Big, giant hug. I know the pain of compassion when being a chump. I really do. I also know that this is abusive, manipulative and straight up toxic stuff. She needz him. Fine. She can have him. You don’t want to hurt people: the kids, her, the other kids and so forth so you are taking the pain on yourself. Perhaps this is a pattern of behaviour. It is/was mine. I took everyone’s burden on and eventually I broke… Look up Narcissism and Echoism. It might not apply to your situation but something about the way you write really resonated with my own tendencies. Also, allow yourself to imagine if just for a moment what it might be like to be righteously angry about what has been done to you. Even better, would you do this to her? If the answer is hell no then you have insight into why this is wrong. My therapist asked if I would consider taking a lover given that my husband was so uninterested in me while morning his twu luv and I said that I would never do such a terrible thing to him given how devastating it all was. But, he could do it to me and she is doing this terrible awful thing to you…

DontFeelLikeDancin
DontFeelLikeDancin
2 years ago

This is all you really need (thanks ChumpiestChump):

“[W]ould you do this to her?”

Seriously, you don’t need any other advice. Just answer this question and think about the implications. Respect. Character. Etc. ChumpiestChump, great job getting right to the core of things. I would NEVER and that’s what makes the difference between gold (Guy Chump) and tarnished brass (not naming any names).

So my name should be NerdChump but I searched up “gold vs brass” after writing that, and I think you all should too.

ClearWaters
ClearWaters
2 years ago

Guy,

You are working in a COVID ICU wearing no PPEs and doing extra hours in a TB unit also with no PPEs.

How do you expect to not get infected and stay healthy? Does your FW even cook (decently) for your children in this arrangment that is absolutely high risk for your mental health? I bet a million dollars that she doesn’t!

There is no pain free surgery, but it cures. Life requires us to be corageous. You WILL get better when you leave. Please believe us!

Taje care!

Mitz
Mitz
2 years ago

Guy needs a good therapist. It’s not good to carry this alone. And he needs to come here everyday. He is
catastrophizing, which is a stage we all went through. He’s telling himself he can’t cope with a divorce. But the reality is he can. And his life will improve when he gets away from this heartless liar and cheating wife. The coldness of this woman … to ask him to support her ass while she f’s some dude !

His children are older and they will have a say where they live. And part time parenting is not so bad. Sure it sucks at first, but you get a routine and it is very doable. It truly is. Self love goes a long way here.

Half the country is divorced, many never married. Life changes. We grieve the changes and soldier on.

I’d be calling this dude’s wife. No way would I play along as their f’g stooge. Man needs to get mad!

Attie
Attie
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitz

My thoughts exactly. Guy’s children will have some say in where they want to be so I hope he can do the right thing and those kids will come running. As for the wife’s skank, “he wants to get some of those children through high school so needs three years”. Are the 7-year olds child geniuses who will graduate at the age of 10? Please Guy, save yourself, for your children’s sake as well as your own! You CAN do this!

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Yes, 2 teens/almost teens are NOT going to want to be living in an apartment with NINE people, 7 of them children.

The AP is NOT going to leave his chump wife. He won’t want to do the work for FIVE kids, much less the 7 kids with Guy’s wife’s kids.

Guy, you’ll be waiting for the Apocalypse for AP to make a move. Not three years. In the meantime, you’ll become a shell of your former self if you stay, and that’s if you’re lucky and don’t die from cancer, a heart attack or a stroke.

Kara
Kara
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Exactly.

GuyChump, she does NOT get to just walk out and bring your children with her to an apartment with the other man. That’s absolutely NOT how it works.

First off, like Mitz said, your children are old enough to actually have a say in this. I doubt they will be like “Okee dokey!” when mom tells them they’re moving into a new place with OM. If I were a teenager and my mother had told me that I would have more than a few things to say about it. She’s living in a complete delusional fantasy world if she thinks they will just merrily roll along with this.

Second, she clearly seems to assume you’re either not going to ask for any custody, or that the court will not award you any. I’m aware of the stereotypical belief that courts don’t care about fathers, but here’s the thing: That’s actually not true. I did actually look this up, and found a solid study on how often men are given custody. A few interesting points I found:

1) Courts do not award custody to men who don’t ask for it. You have to ASK for it. In 60% of cases where fathers asked for either full or partial custody, it was awarded. I’m sure your cheating wife is operating under the assumption that you’re not going to fight for any custody or just that the court won’t give it to you. Well surprise bitch, if you actually ask, you’re likely to get it. Especially if it’s a situation of infidelity where she plans to yank them out of the home and replant them with her AP. That’s some sheer what the fuckery there.

2) Men who went into their divorce cases with the assumption that courts would not care about them ended up not asking for custody, thus they were not awarded it, thus reinforcing the idea that courts favor women. It was a self-fulfilling cycle. If you go in already having decided that the court won’t listen to you, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Speak up for you and your kids!

3) Male abusers were awarded custody in 100% of their cases. Yes, 100%. Why? Because the abuse survivor was forced to appear in court with her abuser, making her emotional, fearful, and inarticulate. The abuser, calm, cool, collected, was able to make the victim look unstable.
This is terrible, however, the point here, is when you go to court with your wife, you need to be the sane one. You have to maintain composure, consult with your lawyer, and show yourself to be a reasonable, collected person. You can go have a break down in your car after the case, but while you are at any custody hearings, you MUST maintain composure at all times.

That said, your wife clearly thinks she can do what the fuck ever she wants and you’re just going to go along with it. She clearly thinks EVERYONE is just going to go along with it, including the kids, since she thinks she’s just going to go flounce off to a new apartment with the kids in tow and live her life with her new twu wuv. …Cheaters all seem to live in the same fantasy world where everyone is hokey pokey with their plans for everyone’s new lives.

Well show her she’s wrong. Yes, you do need to tell the other chump. Your wife and her OM seem to think you’re not going to do that. It’s obvious she thinks you’re just going to keep quiet about it for the next three years otherwise she wouldn’t have told you all this shit. How dumb and submissively compliant does she think you are? …Just WOW that’s the biggest insult to injury there. How about no. You go to the other chump, you tell that poor woman what’s going on. She may not believe you, but one way or another, that information needs to get to her.
Second, you lawyer the fuck up. Actually, I would lawyer up before you tell the other chump. So your wife and the nitwit can’t get ahead of the game. Get your lawyer, tell them everything, including the part about where she thinks she’s going to take your kids, and then tell the other chump.
Your wife thinks she’s got her whole new life planned out. Hell she seems to think she’s got YOUR new life planned out, his kid’s new lives, and your kid’s new lives. Uh, no, how about you blow a huge hole in that fantasy and serve her.

I mean, if it’s not that big of a deal for them to cheat and decide how everyone is going to live next, then it won’t be that big of a deal for you to speed up the process of that right? It’s what they wanted isn’t it?

You can laugh once she starts protesting. See how fast it becomes a big deal once you take control of the reins.

ChumpNoMore
ChumpNoMore
2 years ago
Reply to  Kara

In Illinois the courts assume shared custody – 50/50 time with each parent, unless there is a compelling reason to prove it is not in the best interests of the children. The courts are changing how they award custody.

DontFeelLikeDancin
DontFeelLikeDancin
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpNoMore

Same in PA ????

Kara
Kara
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpNoMore

The times they are a-changin’

UXworld
UXworld
2 years ago

“When I did come home my wife advised she and her soul mate planned to get an apartment together and take my 2 girls to live with them which I had a real problem with.”

This more than anything should get your dander up and move you toward the righteous anger you need to move forward. SHE has decided that your daughters are going to live with her? SHE came to this decision through . . . what? Careful thought and debate? Seeking advice from specialists in the field of child psychology? Her credentialed expertise in such matters? No, it’s her entitlement — this is the way it should be, because she is the only one that matters.

She has aptly demonstrated through her actions that you are of no consequence to her as a husband, partner, etc. But dammit, she does NOT get to make a decision like that unilaterally. Use this aspect of your situation as the guide for moving forward, I guarantee that the fog of indecision will lift on the other aspects as well.

(Mine magnanimously told me: “When it turns out that I get majority custody (of our 2 daughters, same age as yours at the time), I want you to know I’ll work with you on the (child support) money.” I turned to her and asked what made her think she was automatically going to be getting majority custody, she looked as if the thought had never once occurred to her. That more than anything got me moving. Oh — and I was holding knives at the time — it’s a wonder either of us got out that conversation unscathed.)

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

You said it before I did. This is the part where we learn how much this woman knows about healthy relationships. ZERO.

SHE planned? Uh, no. Marriages are “WE planned” when the plans concern other family members. She and High School Boy made plans for your life and your daughter’s lives? Uh, no. Go get your own parter, A LAWYER, and make some plans of your own. Start making calls. TODAY. STAT.

And please tell High School Boy’s wife. TODAY. STAT.

The only counseling you need after your spouse pours gasoline all over you and your children and your home and your life and then hands the matches to their fuck buddy is LEGAL counseling.

GuideDog
GuideDog
2 years ago

Guy,
CL advice is solid. I was in your shoes once, hoping my wife would come around. Now I’m glad she didn’t. You want to ake your divorce as clean as possible and your window of opportunity is indeed now. She is on cloud nine and delusional. She’ll want to divorce too, because she wants to bee free to be with him. So now is the time to get a settlement.
If you wait too long and she comes back to actual reality and realise he isn’t going to eave his wife, thats a different ballgame. All her energy will go into taking you to the cleaners and you’ll be the punching bag for the bad feelings she has, because he won’t commit. It will all be your fault and you and your kids will suffer. Or worse: she’ll lure you back in. You will be vulnerable and will want to get back into a life of hell. But it’s what you know.
Sorry man. Your marrigae is over. Accept it and leave asap

QuantumChump
QuantumChump
2 years ago
Reply to  GuideDog

Listen to this man ^^^. When the affair tingles wear off and she realizes she fucked up her own life, she will come after you with hammer and tongs and the full weight of the family court.

Guy chunp
Guy chunp
2 years ago
Reply to  GuideDog

I’d love to hear your story. Can you tell me?

Roman A. Clay
Roman A. Clay
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chunp

I would be happy to tell you the abbreviated version, Guy. It starts out a lot like your story, actually.
Wife started cheating and I was basically the last one to know. I could sense something was wrong but couldn’t put my finger on it. She told the kids to lie to me about hanging out with her affair partner (I work, she doesn’t).
When she asked for a divorce, it came out of the blue (for me). Thought she was joking. I’d seen some troubling signs, though: noticed she was always giggling into her iPhone. She’d taken off her wedding ring. I asked her straight up if there was someone else. Oh, of course not!
That night, couldn’t sleep. Started digging. Found messages between her and the new guy. “You’re my soulmate,” the usual cheater pablum.
Confronted her and she denied everything even though I had screenshots and IM logs.
The next day, confronted the guy and told him to back off. He said he would.
She and I went to marriage counseling where she agreed to stop seeing the guy she wouldn’t admit she was cheating with. Eyeroll.
Needless to say, they were both lying. I caught her over and over, going to his house.
Still I thought she would come to her senses. Now I’m eternally grateful she never did.
Took me 6 months to get my head on straight. Her story was that the divorce was all my fault. She “loved me but wasn’t in love with me.” Matter of fact, she’d been “unhappy for years.” (These are lines straight out of the cheater instruction manual, as I later discovered).
She moved out to “find herself” in a rental house. Translation: easier access to AP (who immediately moved in with her) without me getting in the way.
A few more months of googling and reading and I realized she was a covert narcissist and this is just how they roll: lovebomb, devalue, discard. It’s a cycle.
She wanted a “civil” divorce. Translation: give her what she wants and shut the hell up.
I managed to pull my head out of the fog long enough to get her to sign an agreement that gave me the house, my retirement, all three child tax deductions. She got the car, a chunk of change, and her beloved Prince Charmin. She signed during the first 3 months of the affair, when cheaters are like heroin addicts. Wait too long and trouble enters paradise. Then your chances of getting out alive drop tremendously.
In exchange for the separation agreement, I didn’t fight the divorce. Two weeks after the ink was dry on the decree, she married the guy. Even wore white. The next year, she got pregnant. It would have been easier if they’d settled in another zip code. But she likes to twist the knife. So the two of them built a house just down the street from me. In my neighborhood. Eyeroll.
But by then, I was coming to terms with things. My relationship with my kids improved 1000% from how it was during the marriage, because Mrs. Controlling wasn’t around to micromanage everyone.
Still, there were occasional bouts of hair-pulling-out when, for example, demanded (but denied demanding) that the kids call her new prince “Dad.” Took my name off the emergency contact list at school. Refused to share report cards or medical information. Changed the kids’ addresses over to her address du jour (she’s moved like 5 times since moving out). Tried to substitute Prince’s last name (Charmin) for the kids’ last name (mine) on everything from baseball mitts to Panera membership accounts. You know, the usual cheater entitled behavior.
Did this crap make me furious? Of course. And I used that fuel to power my comeback. Spent every morning at the gym. Every night meditating. Listened to podcasts. Quit drinking. Educated myself about this particular personality disorder. Came to realize that she would have done the same thing to any other guy. Because I was nothing special to her. Never had been.
Not only had she stolen my future. She had reached back and sullied my past. All of it was suspect. When did the cheating start? When did the lying start? Did she ever love me? Was any of it real?
This was the most personal betrayal I couldn’t really take personally, because it wasn’t about me. I was just a supporting actor in this drama. Nothing I could have done would have saved the marriage because… lovebomb, devalue, discard.
Fast forward several years. I swore I’d never remarry because – why subject myself to that again? The whole episode taught me that it takes two to marry, but only one to divorce.
So I had a girlfriend for a couple years but I was honest about how I felt about marriage. She wanted more, so that didn’t last. Started dating lots of women.
One night I was just finishing up a date when a different woman I’d been talking to started texting me. Why don’t I come meet her at her friend’s house, which was – get this – in my neighborhood?
So I did. This woman wasn’t my type, and I wasn’t hers. But her friend, my neighbor? That was another story. When she answered the door, it was game over.
She lived right behind my ex-wife, thought my kids were all Charmins (that’s the impression management skill you’ll find abundant in Cheaterville). Had no clue their father lived just up the street. Or that he was a nice guy.
And she had sworn off men, thanks to a recently-broken engagement. With a covert narcissist. We compared notes. These narcissists really do run plays off the same playbook. That broke the ice.
Four years later, we’re happily married. Yeah, I broke my vow not to tie the knot again. Moved to a big house with lots of room for the kids (and her/our dogs). Big backyard. Boat. See, my new wife has a good job too so it’s not just me trying to support everyone by myself.
The ex-wife still doesn’t work. Their twu-wuv-child is about to go off to kindergarten. That’ll give her a lot more free time, but she still won’t take a job. Ask me how I know.
But I hardly ever think about her anymore, except to roll my eyes at the latest attempted manipulation. For the first time in my life, I have a partner who wants to be a partner. We’re a team. And we’re in love.
A year ago, my oldest child decided that he didn’t want to live in the Charmin household anymore. So he’s living with us now. He resents the way she tried to alienate him (and his siblings) from me. When he tries to talk to her about it, he gets the old “sorry you feel that way but that’s not what happened” gaslighting routine. Absolutely no accountability. Which only reinforces his decision.
He wants closure. I keep telling him, you have to learn to accept the apology you never got.
It’s been seven years since the betrayal. And I’m truly happy. Going through the fires seared my soul and opened up my heart. I’m convinced I would have been incapable of this happiness without the traumatic experience. So I’m actually kind of grateful to Prince Charmin now. When he broke into my prison, he set me free.

Phoenix
Phoenix
2 years ago
Reply to  Roman A. Clay

I love that you found your best life after coming through the shitstorm. Congratulations!????????????

Forty Years Freed
Forty Years Freed
2 years ago
Reply to  Roman A. Clay

Yeah , been thru all this too..but I got full custody right off the bat as she’d moved 7 times in six months. Cited her instability , lawyer said this would be a cakewalk. It was. this was many years ago but the playbook never changes…except my EW’s AP left her for another after 5 years. Poetic justice indeed.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago
Reply to  Roman A. Clay

Roman A. Clay/Roman à Clef,

What a great story ! Makes my heart sing.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago

Did you mean Charmin’ or Charmin, in the “squeeze the t.p.” tv commercial sense ? Funny either way.

Roman A. Clay
Roman A. Clay
2 years ago

That’s the Rorschacht Test portion of our presentation today. You interpret it in a way that makes the most sense to you!

Mary J Bernadette
Mary J Bernadette
2 years ago
Reply to  Roman A. Clay

Love it. It’s TP to me!

And thanks for sharing your story.

Roman A. Clay
Roman A. Clay
2 years ago

It’s all true. Except the names. 🙂

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Roman A. Clay

Bravo.

Roman
Roman
2 years ago
Reply to  GuideDog

100% on this ^^^^^

I was able to get my cheating stbx to give up the house and any claim to my retirement funds while she was in the throes of Twu Wuv with Prince Charmin, aka her affair partner. I also got all 3 child tax credits. Strike while the iron is hot!
BTW, it’s hard but you MUST advocate for yourself and the kids.
Two weeks after our divorce, cheating ex-wife married the AP.
Meantime, I worked on me. Went to the gym. Meditation. Lots of reading. Healing.
Several years later, I met (and later married) a wonderful woman. We have a fantastic life together! It gets better, I promise. And yes, you will love again — for real.

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago
Reply to  Roman

Yes, I also put a clause in my divorce decree that we’d split the two child tax credits, but if Dracula fell behind by even one red cent in child support, that I’d get both child tax credits. Which I knew would happen, as Cluster B’s can’t keep a job. He’s now $25,000+ in arrears. ????

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
2 years ago

Even if she does “come back” to you, it will be hell on earth. You’ll never trust her again, and she will just find someone else if this guy doesn’t pan out. This is an EXCELLENT window for you to GTFO of this mess. She’s preoccupied and thinks she has a safety net. Don’t wait until she has no one to run to.

I understand not being emotionally ready to let go yet. It took me a few years to get to that point. But get a lawyer NOW. You don’t have to be emotionally ready in order to protect yourself and your kids. Looking back, I wish I’d kicked my cheating husband out even though I loved him and wanted him back. But like you, I hung on hoping he’d give up his AP. He didn’t. I wasted several years on an abusive asshole I thought I loved. It broke me too, and it has taken years to heal from that.

I know it hurts and it’s scary and the sunk costs are huge. But like CL said, those of us who have been through it and made it to the other side know that what you are living right now is far worse than being divorced and losing some of the time with your kids (it SUCKS, but now that my ex is dead and I am a full-time single mom, I can say that shared custody has its upsides as well).

Get a good lawyer, protect your assets, kick her out, tell her fuckbuddy’s wife what’s up, and get yourself some therapy (my therapist helped me SO much) so that you can begin to live your own life again. If your depression is severe, see a doctor. I needed an anti-anxiety medication to get me through the worst of it because I was so depressed and stressed from the ongoing abuse I couldn’t function. Once I got that under control, I was able to think straight (eating and sleeping are kind of necessary for this, and I wasn’t able to do either without the medication) and move forward.

The other side is so much better. You may not think you’ can ever see it that way, but you can and will. Believe me, I thought I’d never be okay, let alone happy. And I’m happier now than I’ve ever been.

Hogs&Digs
Hogs&Digs
2 years ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

Dear Guy,
Don’t underestimate the real seriousness
of your depression. Thinking you might
have what I once had “Double Depression”.
Situational depression (external cause)
+ Body depression (internal cause).
Once it takes hold, it takes on a life of it’s own. You’re in a Catch 22. As long as you stay in your situation, YOUR BODY (endocrine system, limbic system, circadian rhythm, immune system, nervous systems)
IS BEING DEPLETED DAILY.
People who haven’t personally experienced clinical depression don’t/can’t understand how Paralyzing & Exhausting this medical condition makes somebody. IMPOSSIBLE to “pull yourself up by your boot straps” or “positive-think” your way out.
PLZ get a quality evaluation ASAP which will probably be followed by a RX. After only 1 month (or less) of the right medicine,
you’ll be much improved & able to do battle.

ChumpMeGentlyWithAChainsaw
ChumpMeGentlyWithAChainsaw
2 years ago
Reply to  Hogs&Digs

I’m my goodness, THIS^^^^, exactly! I’ve been dealing with this very thing for a hot minute now. And I constantly feel like I’m falling apart. Constantly. Headaches, stomachaches, nausea, body pain, can’t eat and if I do eat I either spend hours being nauseated or I throw it all up.

Guy, I’ve been feeling like this for a year and 3 months. Nothing has gotten better – it’s all gotten worse and worse as time has gone on.
You won’t survive 3 years of that shit. Get out as soon as you can. I’d already be gone if I could find a place to rent. As soon as I do, I’m OUT.

PS- to everyone- The blow up between STBX and I finally happened and he knows I’m leaving. You would not believe the sad sausage woes I’ve had to hear the past few days. And he tried to make me feel bad for the “situation” that ***I*** am leaving him and his kids in. I straight up looked him in the eye and said, “I’m not putting you and your kids above myself and my children ANY more. Figured it out like I’m having to do. “

TooManyTears
TooManyTears
2 years ago

Please be careful. The rage cycle might be on the horizon. Stay safe!
Glad you are on your way out-
Freedom.

ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
2 years ago

Dear Guy, I am so, so sorry this is happening to you and your girls. I’m so proud you took the step of writing to Chump Lady and through her, to your peers, thousands of chumps just like you who are looking to live an authentic, genuine, honest life. Guy, please listen to Chump Lady; you are suffering horribly while your cheating wife is eating cake and sniggering with her AP about how they are manipulating you. Do you honestly think this 3 year plan will work out? Her AP hasn’t told his wife and wants time because he DOESN’T WANT to be with your cheater full-time. He’s eating cake too.
For the sake of your sanity, lovely Guy, to keep your self-respect and dignity, and to model good boundaries and self-respect to your girls, line up your ducks and divorce. Don’t worry about your ‘tentative agreement’. This is a war zone and you have to take off the gloves and take control. And now is the perfect time.
Please come here often to read, Guy, and join the Facebook or Reddit for more support. The whole of Chump Nation has your back ❤

MightyKJ
MightyKJ
2 years ago

Oh, Guy Chump. I hear the pain in your words. I’m so sorry.

Please advocate for yourself. Do you want your children to grow up thinking this is OK? Do you want them to let their future partner treat them this way? Or worse, emulate your wife’s abhorrent behavior?

I need to also point out, gently, being a doormat is not attractive. Your wife clearly doesn’t respect you and likely never will.

Lawyer. Settlement. You can do this, and we are here for you at every step.

Xioba Xioba
Xioba Xioba
2 years ago

Dear Guy Chump,
Good morning and welcome to CN.
The greatest thing about CN ( other than CL who is the greatest ) is that there’s always a chump who has it worse than you can imagine. You are #1 now.
What do you get for this accomplishment? Well, if you don’t listen to CL you get an STD and a miserable life with an awful person.
If you DO listen to CL ( please listen to her ), you get a life!!!! No contact and remember your wife sucks ( maybe a trashy tramp is a better word ).
Everything that is wrong with your life has been my life this past year, however, I found CL, read her books, listened to CN and I dumped that trash.
You probably don’t see it now cuz of the depression, but you got this. Lawyer up and leave her. Take care of you, fix you. Your children want an awesome dad who they can look up to they don’t want soggy cake— which is what you are right now.
For perspective, I was 1/2 hour away from suicide, but the words of CL got me slowly away from that. Day after day, I worked on me as best as I could. I ran. I did stuff I wanted. I slept. I listened to why I was depressed and I moved on.
It’s not easy, I’m only on Wednesday afternoon here and Tuesday seems impossible, but CL made me understand that Wednesday morning is waaaay better than a single moment with a trashy freak. Do you hear me?
You got this for you and for your children. Your life will be awesome the moment you leave her. Now, leave her. Now. Like right now, she’s trash trashy trash.
I wish you the best and happy holidays.

Cam
Cam
2 years ago

Guy,

No wonder you feel terrible: You’re drinking poison every day thinking it’s better than the alternative.

Nobody is ever “ready” to rip the band-aid off. We do it anyway because the alternative is far worse.

If not for you, do it for your children. Your wife is putting all your lives at risk during a global pandemic so she can fuck strange. She’s *already* upended your children’s lives psychologically; kids aren’t dumb, they know something is wrong with Mom and Dad.

What if she’s fucking with the finances? What if she drains the kids’ college savings?

“Oh but she’d never…”

Yes she would! She’s already fucking over her own children. What WOULDN’T she do?

Dude, you need a lawyer like yesterday. DON’T tell your wife. Keep everything close to the chest until your lawyer gives you the ok.

You’re going to feel like shit for a while. It’s inevitable. But you’ll start to heal when you move forward with a lawyer (and a therapist for yourself and probably your kids).

You’re in a hostage situation. You need to get out of there. If you can’t do it for yourself right now, do it for your children. They can’t protect themselves from this lunacy. You need to be their papa bear right now and protect them.

Again, DO NOT tell your wife. Your marriage is dead and your wife killed it. She’s the enemy. Confess only to your lawyer and your therapist.

chumpedchange
chumpedchange
2 years ago
Reply to  Cam

“…oh but she’d never..” Oh yes she (already) is! Already plotting and scheming. I found out just before the first court appointment that he had drained the bank accounts. The judge was NOT happy about that. Start amassing documents- bank accounts, savings, income of any kind. Document what she says and what she does- with stealth. Go grey rock. Be boring and slowly get your ducks in a row. Listen to your lawyer. Not listening cost me a year and $60,000. Have your home assessed. Understand everything. And get a team of people behind you that you can rely on.
This is all wrong. Your girls need YOU. And like someone else said- they will have a say in who they stay with and when.
Dear Guy- you can do this. Take care of yourself. Do the next Right Thing. And then the next Right Thing, and keep doing that until you are free and have your confidence back.

QuantumChump
QuantumChump
2 years ago
Reply to  chumpedchange

Ditto, when I finally started looking, I discovered all sorts of documents were missing. Bank books, savings bonds, birth certificates, SS cards, marriage license, bank statements, etc. I had just admitted to myself that my wife was a lying cheater, but somehow I still couldn’t believe she was also a thief. My hesitancy cost me dearly. I suspect she hid at least $100K that I was never able to prove or recover. I’ll never know the truth.

Cam
Cam
2 years ago
Reply to  chumpedchange

Yeah, not to scare you, Guy, but Chump Lady has a whole tag here in the archives on financial abuse.

Read this: https://www.chumplady.com/2018/02/financial-abuse-d-day/

Cheaters and financial abuse usually go hand-in-hand. This pattern shows up again and again through thousands of stories here at Chump Nation.

Don’t take this lying down. You need to act today: Lawyer up and start documenting.

Latitude69
Latitude69
2 years ago

Guy Chump:

You’re going to get a long strand of tough-love coming your way here. CN posters have run the gauntlet with Cheaters. We aim to get you to higher ground. It might sting to hear it, but you need motivation.

Where, oh where, did you get the idea that it’s OK to roll over and lie down when someone starts abusing you? The problem here isn’t that your Cheater wife doesn’t have motivation or the will to do what SHE wants to do. She’s well attached to her fantasy future and has misguided plans to use you, your kids, and anyone else that stands in her way. Nothing good can come from this. Leave her to her fantasy future. Don’t stick around watching it all unfold – at your own personal, financial, and emotional expense!

Get an attorney. Move the divorce gears into motion. Prepare a settlement. Develop a custody plan so that you know how your children fit into your life ahead. Plan for where you’ll live, what changes and supports are needed ahead, and how your new single life might look based on YOU.

It appears that the Cheater did you more than one favor. First, you’ve found out she’s not the quality person you thought she was, so you now get to throw the garbage out. Second, it sounds like you may need to do some work on yourself to discover why you lay down and curl-up during abuse. It’ll help your children so much to see you stand-up, develop a plan, execute that plan, integrate them into your new single life, and NOT take abuse. You’re their role model. They need YOU to show them how it’s done.

Chump Guy, this is more than an unfortunate experience you’re up against. It’s YOUR learning curve to grow and become your personal best for yourself, your children, and your future.

GetMeOutASAP
GetMeOutASAP
2 years ago
Reply to  Latitude69

Thank you for this Latitude69. My case isn’t as severe as guy chump’s but there are some parallels. I needed to hear your words.

FYI
FYI
2 years ago
Reply to  Latitude69

Do NOT, do NOT move out of your family home. She wants out of the marriage, so she gets to leave the home. Not you.

So, so important that you get your head in the game. Put a team together. Don’t keep her secrets. Tell people who will support YOU 100%, and make a shark divorce lawyer one of those people.

It’s painful to watch you put up with this load of absolute crap from her.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  FYI

I just love when people here recommend ‘shark’ or ‘bulldog’ lawyers. That there are chumps out there who stand to get more than a shit sandwich warms my heart to no end.

Scott
Scott
2 years ago
Reply to  Latitude69

Im reading “settlement” a lot in these posts. Is that the same thing as getting divorced? I’m confused.

Onandonandon
Onandonandon
2 years ago
Reply to  Scott

You do the settlement agreement first with terms negotiated thru the lawyers to make sure you get a fair legal separation of assets, parenting time, division of ongoing costs for children (health insurance, medical costs, extracurriculars, braces, childcare etc). Both parties have to agree and sign a legal SA which gets incorporated into the divorce decree. If you can’t agree, the divorce will go to trial and the judge will decide FOR you with a lot less care and consideration you might get otherwise.

There are costs involved. My SA took over a year because ex FW would not agree to anything. The no contest divorce was approved two months later. I actually had to file at fault divorce in order to get things moving. Fortunately We settled pre-trial. Cost was approx $25k for each of us. Going to trial would have taken another year of my life and cost another $25 k in legal fees. I got a decent and timely settlement only because I got the very best and experienced lawyer I could find. He played hardball and was able to advise me of the process. Don’t try to go thru this without a lawyer. Mediation instead of lawyers with cheaters is more sticking your head in a blender. Although I did not experience this, I believe it when people here talk about the honeymoon period with the twu love cheaters—get a settlement ASAP while they are euphoric from the new relationship—you will get a quick and advantageous terms but once the shine’s off and they realize that AP might not leave the wife for them, they may balk at the divorce entirely and make things very very difficult.

Latitude69
Latitude69
2 years ago
Reply to  Scott

Settlement is the agreed upon terms that are legally binding once divorce is granted. It is the outcome of the divorce. Settlement applies to division of assets, child custody and parenting matters, and all the arbitrary issues that once were mutual and now will be separate.

Motherchumper99
Motherchumper99
2 years ago
Reply to  Latitude69

And… (I’m
A lawyer, but not your lawyer), these types do not agree to anything approaching fair. Ask me how I know. Push the divorce as far as you need to. On custody we got through the first mediation with no settlement. I subpoenaed his psych records and moved for parenting, psych, and drug assessments. XH caved and gave me full custody. On finances, the second mediation was also unable to get a 50-50 agreement. I went to a 10-day trial. Judge gave me an unequal 80%+ in a community property – no-fault state nonetheless. I too NEVER wanted any of this (split/divorce/non-intact family). But, XH refused to stop, and, he was not compatible with me (despite 26 years together). I divorced despite not “wanting” to. Fast forward 5 years from divorce, 5 from Dday. Life is wonderful. I’m engaged to a wonderful, loyal mensch. He wants to be monogamous with me. He wants to spend the rest of his life with me and only me. He’s not in “twu luv” with anyone else. He’s not “confused.” He doesn’t lie or blame me for anything.

In the past 7 years since Dday I forgave myself for the pick-me dance I did for months, for my desperation, for my terror in facing the devastation of 26 years of my life. I learned about trauma bonds. Sunk costs, narcissist abuse. I learned that my scarcity mentality was not immutable. I took X off the pedestal and turned to myself (I had pretzeled myself into such a small ball that I could barely ask myself what I wanted in life.).

Get a lawyer. Go grey rock (look it up). Come here daily. Join our Facebook and Reddit forums for real time support. Act “as if” you matter. Your future self will thank God you did.

P.S. not that it matters to my well being at all, but XH has continued to devolve. He’s still with young AP. He’s also cheating on her. He’s aged 20 years in 7. His health is terrible. The kids despise him. His own family has finally turned their backs on him. It was never me. On the rare occasions I see him I think, “yuck, thank goodness he’s not my husband!” Trust he sucks, that’s my motto.

Cam
Cam
2 years ago
Reply to  Scott

It’s the final legal agreement when 2 people decide to divorce re: division of assets, child custody, etc.

You need this to protect yourself on many fronts (emotionally, physically, legally, financially). You don’t want an abuser with the emotional range of a toddler having any control over your assets or the ability to make healthcare decisions if you went to the hospital.

Cheaters also aren’t known for their responsible decision-making or ethical activity. I know a few who got in trouble with the law. Chumps need to wash their hands of it and get away ASAP so they don’t go down with the cheater’s ship.

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago
Reply to  Cam

Yes, you need those papers to protect your kids. I’m fortunate, Dracula moved 2,000 miles away from me & kids. But my lawyer warned me “without those papers, he can take the kids anywhere he wants, he is their father”. Now, if he doesn’t abide by the divorce/settlement papers as to visitation, I can call the cops that he’s stolen the kids, Amber alerts go out, etc. Literally the first thing the police will ask you is “show us the papers”. It is THESE papers that Literally rule your entire life till your kids are adults. That’s why you don’t delay on getting divorced. The authorities can’t do anything for you without them.

Cam
Cam
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris W

Guy Chump, read this response!! This is so important! Every delay is putting you and your children at risk.

Xioba Xioba
Xioba Xioba
2 years ago
Reply to  Latitude69

Excellent. Chump Guy, listen to Latitude69. We chumps got your back, but listen to the tough love that’s going to wake you the F up.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
2 years ago

Here are some things I hope you do:

1) Decide what you want in a divorce. For example, hash out some preferences regarding the children. Do you want the kids full time? Do you want shared custody? Do you want the kids to stay enrolled in their current school system with their current friends and activities? Do you want to move somewhere new with the kids? Plan a future.

Once you are clear about your preferences, start doing any work necessary to justify the choice. If you want primary or shared custody, take the kids to the ortho appointments, get to know their teachers and friends, pay attention to what size shoes they need and how often they are purchased. You may need to demonstrate that you are an active parent. Make lunches, talk to coaches, be present. Regardless of how parenting has been divided in your home, step up and do more now in anticipation of the divorce.

2) Consider what you will need financially to make your new life work. Can you afford to keep the house? Would you rather start fresh in a different home with the kids? What if you are expected to pay alimony? Budgeting for future scenarios is almost always worrisome, but once you understand what you have and what you’ll have to change, it is easier to move forward.

3) Gather documentation. Make sure you have records of all your household financial records. Make sure you have copies of social security cards, birth certificates, life insurance policies, mortgage paperwork, old tax returns, etc. Store these somewhere outside of your home so that you retain access to them if you choose or must leave the house suddenly.

4). Document the affair. If the AP is not confessing to his wife, you may be able to use your information about it to negotiate a better divorce settlement.

5.) Go see a lawyer. You sound very non-confrontational, so make sure you hire someone who is good at standing up for their clients. You may need to visit a few different lawyers to find one that seems like a good fit for you. And once you hire them, trust them to do their job. Your soon-to-be-EX wife will try to sweet talk you or guilt you into undercutting the lawyer’s strategies. The lawyer is your ally, not your cheating spouse.

6). Don’t tell your cheating spouse you are doing any of this. Your wife has inadvertently given you the gift of time to get your act together. Accept it, use it, and don’t feel apologetic about “starting” the divorce without her knowledge for one minute.

And here’s one thing that is really bothering me. Your wife seems to be proposing a 3 year timeline in order to support the needs of the AP’s kids–especially the ones on the verge of leaving high school. If you have a 14 year old now, in 3 years, that kid will be at the end of high school and his/her world will be upended by divorce in exactly the way that is not acceptable for the AP’s kids. Your wife is putting the needs of her AP’s children above her own. That should tell you all you need to know about how important it is for you to get out of this marriage and establish a sane household for your children.

There is nothing healthy in your marriage. I hope you leave it. It will be hard, because I predict your wife will beg you to stay, and you sound tempted. But her treatment of you is abusive and cruel and unforgiveable. I hope you are able to see that soon.

Chump guy
Chump guy
2 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Why do you think my wife will beg me to stay? She’s made it clear she no longer loves me and all her emotion and heart has been given to this AP. I don’t know if they will fall apart Bc maybe he’s stringing her along but I don’t see her ever asking to come back. Even if she did I’d not accept it.

Mary J Bernadette
Mary J Bernadette
2 years ago
Reply to  Chump guy

Because you do the parenting while her mind is in la la land.

You make life easier for her by being a responsible spouse and parent.

And because you keep up the appearances of a respectable family.

And the financial benefit she gets of being in a marriage.

Plus, she enjoys getting attention (whether positive or negative) from multiple sources. AKA “Kibble”

As CL says, as unjust as it is, YOU have the be the one to put the bullet in this dying animal. The cheater won’t.

I highly recommend Chump Lady’s book: Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life. It gave me the confidence and righteous anger I needed to take the leap from the door of the plane.

FYI
FYI
2 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Whatever you do, Guy, do NOT tell her that you’re seeing an attorney.

Jen
Jen
2 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Such great, practical advice! So well-written and eye opening. Thanks for sharing all this. I hope Guy listens!

Attie
Attie
2 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Also, if he acts quickly, he can name the AP in the divorce (or threaten to). That might put a rocket up their asses!

kb
kb
2 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

This is excellent advice and a good action plan.

Guy, you didn’t deserve any of this. Your depression and anxiety are fully understandable. It may be hard to internalize this, but you’ve been emotionally abused for quite a while and part of this process involves your abuser training you to prioritize their needs over yours. You get used to making your own needs small.

One of the most empowering things you can do is to interview and retain an attorney. Learn your rights. Develop an exit plan. Find out how to set yourself up for the maximum custody you can. When you’ve lined everything up, then file. Don’t tell your wife about any of this because she will instantly switch to channel rage.

I would add one more item to the action plan above: seek therapy from someone experienced in dealing with relationship trauma. If your counselor doesn’t see infidelity as abuse (ask them), then go elsewhere. You may need medication in the short term, but you’ll also need to have longer term support as you start to peel away the layers of trauma you’ve endured and as you learn how to be content in your own skin.

Make that two items to the action plan. If you have the wherewithal, see a divorce financial planner. Divorce is about strategy, and while everyone takes a financial hit, if you plan your settlement, you position yourself for a faster recovery.

Best of luck!

ActaNonVerba
ActaNonVerba
2 years ago
Reply to  kb

Please find a trauma-informed therapist. You’ll learn that the severity of PTSD (single-event, like D-day) and Complex PTSD (long-term shaping abuse) is determined, to large degree, by the ability or inability of the victim to ESCAPE.

Many of us immediately resonate with where you are right now. You’re trauma-bonded to your FW wife and so you feel like you have no choice, no say, no control. It wasn’t until a brave friend looked me in the face and said, “This is abuse! You can get divorced, and you should,” that the scales finally fell from my eyes. I realized that the door to the cage was open.

Then I discovered CL and CN. My regrets are not finding this resource sooner, and not taking action quickly enough once I did.

Your story has many of the same plot elements as mine, and thousands of others. Cheaters are nothing if not hackneyed and banal. All the comments so far are spot-on. Read them over and over. Believe them.

Whatever you do, no matter how much you want to, do not believe anything your cheater says. Instead, make a note of what she says, then come to this blog and compare against the archives. You will find thousands of examples of other FWs using the exact same phrases from their f’d-up playbook.

Every time you make the minuscule choice to not believe her, and to recognize her for what she is, you are slowly reprogramming your neural pathways. Eventually you will come to a head knowledge that she sucks. Then you will get to a full unquestionable acceptance.

Every step away from her and toward yourself and your girls will make you stronger. You will think more clearly. You will gain the capacity for the righteous anger that will propel you forward.

Come back often and let us know how you’re doing? (((hugs)))

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  ActaNonVerba

ActaNonVerba, ????????????????????????

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  kb

kb, yes: trauma therapist who understands personality disorders + medication.

MightyWarrior
MightyWarrior
2 years ago

Dear Guy. You poor man! I’m another who was left for ‘soulmate’ exgf from school following online and in my case cross-Atlantic relationship (thank you Linked In). As my therapist says (and I’ve had a lot of therapy to get my head round this after 26 years together), ‘MW, it’s fantasy land’. But, my life is precious and I’m not playing games with cheaters because I will not win. Let them do fantasy and you do the hard reality of getting a lawyer and protecting yourself. I agree with telling the AP’s wife to enable her to make wise and safe choices for herself should she be minded to do so. I so wish someone had told me e.g. exgfOW’s husband. Do not let yourself get to my age (61) and find yourself being dumped, again, then. It is so hard to rebuild when you’re older. Not easy when you’re younger, but perhaps easier. Is this fair? No but it is what it is. Do not hesitate, move quickly, and process your feelings when you are safe. Two years out I’m at the feeling processing stage. Now’s the right time. If you and your wife stay together, he will always be ‘the one that escap… (cough) got away’. You deserve much more than that. Wishing you well.

Wormfree
Wormfree
2 years ago

Guy Chump, trust me on this, if you stay with her it will only get worse. I speak from experience here. You children will suffer watching the fucked up interaction between you and your cheating wife. We have been through this! The cheater playbook never changes. Get lawyered up and get out!

NewChump
NewChump
2 years ago

OK now that my jaw is off the floor and I have regained the power of speech …

Guy – listen to Chump Lady.
Lawyer up immediately – best divorce lawyer you can find -and get that settlement done while she still thinks the world well lost for her fuckbuddy. Heck, go all out for custody too. Go for the full extent the law in your jurisdiction allows.

However don’t tell your soon-to- be ex wife. Let her think you are still complying with her timeline while you make your plans. And then serve those divorce papers, kick her to the kerb and change the locks.

Whatever happens to – DON’T TAKE HER BACK.

Or you’ll be back here again, wishing you’d listened the first time.

This stuff sucks but it sure sucks less when you are driving and not her AP.

Good luck, guy. I feel for you – we all do. Lawyer. Now.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
2 years ago

Guy,
The cold hard reality is that you marriage is over. You need to focus on you and your kids. Fuck her, she needs to get the hell out and as the person who is sane, the kids stay with you. Gather you evidence, take pictures of anything and everything. Copy texts to and from you skank of a wife and Peter the Pool Boy and see a lawyer like ASAP.
You are feeding her and she is just getting off on your wonderful nice guy pick me dance. Stop dancing and run. Kick her ass out. You did nothing wrong. Your lawyer will advise you on how to keep your kids. She will not automatically get custody. Don’t take her opinion on this, I am sure she is not a lawyer. While you gather up you anger, please tell his wife. She deserves to know.
You are dealing with a real FW, get her out of your life. Do you really want to live another three years with her knowing what she is doing? I wouldn’t.
Most of us here both male and female have been through this. I went through a DDay and went to RIC but they wanted me to take blame for the years long affair with Schmoopie. That was not going to happen. I then got the next DDay while gathering g up evidence. I lined up as much as I could and lawyered up and served the cheater. He got the hell out but not without protest. My son who is. 25 also gathered evidence and went no contact. FW tried on Thanksgiving to contact son and was told not interested. I then got texts (switched numbers so that one was not blocked) laying the blame for his son not speaking to him on me. My response was, not my problem, speak to your attorney. Hey if he wants to use his attorney as therapist, he can pay the guy in those lovely six minute increments. So basically the process has ups and downs but getting the FW out starts your healing.
Yes, you will eat shit sandwiches fr a time but you can get free with your kids. Don’t make the shit sandwiches and eat them. Good luck and keep us posted. All here at CN wish you well and hope you use this sage space to vent.

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
2 years ago

Chump Guy, the only thing stopping your wife from moving YOUR two daughters from their home to an apartment with a strange man…

WAS HIM GETTING COLD FEET?

Get your head out of your own pity party and start showing up for your daughters!

Yesterday already

Sandyfeet
Sandyfeet
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

My thoughts too. She’s way more into her twu luv than him to her. Act quickly. Read LACGAL. I was paralyzed ???? until I read it. Then I lawyered up.

Mary J Bernadette
Mary J Bernadette
2 years ago
Reply to  Sandyfeet

Same. That book helped me with the confidence I needed as I finally got into action.

nothisfriend
nothisfriend
2 years ago

Re the kids – why do people think kids need a 2-parent household to thrive and be happy? As a child of divorce it was a shock when my parents said they were divorcing. I was in high school with 2 younger siblings. My parents never fought, but there was an underlying tension that I didn’t know existed until my dad was gone from the house. Once he was gone I NEVER wanted my folks back together. My mom blossomed and became her own person. I love both my parents, but they are better apart.

Do this for your kids, and I don’t mean staying with this untenable situation.

QuantumChump
QuantumChump
2 years ago
Reply to  nothisfriend

When she moved out, one of my sons said “Dad, the house is so peaceful now”. Kids are way smarter than given credit.

nothisfriend
nothisfriend
2 years ago
Reply to  QuantumChump

My DS said the same thing. He also told me that he knows I’m the one that he can count on.

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago
Reply to  nothisfriend

Yes, my younger son said similar. Early in COVID, he said to me “Mom, I always come to you when I have an issue or a problem and you fix it. I’m coming to you now to fix this Coronavirus thing”. At that time, he was 8. Dracula left when he was 2.

TwinsDad
TwinsDad
2 years ago

Holy crap Guy. I can’t tell you how frustrating it was to read your story – but I completely understand where you are. I was there at a point. Then I got support, legal advice, and righteous anger driving me. I hope you find these things soon. We’re here online to support you. But you’ve got to do the heavy lifting.

Be the sane parent for your daughters. They need you. Don’t settle for less than 1/2 time with them. It’s likely the best you (and they) will get unless their mother is much worse than a garden-variety cheating fuckwit, but your girls deserve to have you in their lives as much as legally possible.

Get legal advice and separate yourself from your wife financially. She’s probably already been siphoning off money. Get some counseling from a therapist that agrees with the statement, “cheating is abuse.”

Keep reading and posting here. Take care of your physical health too. You will get through this.

Meanwell
Meanwell
2 years ago

Wow OK I wish I had time to write more this morning.
I filed for divorce in February 2019. My husband had already started heavily texting and sexting online – had been for years. I agreed to let him stay in the house in order to keep things peaceful , and cheaper, so he could prepare to move out.
He never did
he never even looked online for an apartment.
But he kept sexting. Until BINGO
He got a live one to take the bait he had been putting online and actually began a sexual relationship.
Then Covid hit. Then he he actually had a real life sex partner But he still expected to stay in the house.

What I realize now Is all I did was maintain a home, and give him a safe secure place with Which to continue to cheat and abuse me and make himself more secure in the divorce. And his next relationship
He finally moved out in December 2020. I lived like that for a year and a half

What I learned was that I
literally gave him time to adjust and prepare himself to be even more cruel and nasty a nd create a support system for himself in the divorce
It didn’t make him nicer it didn’t make him kinder it didn’t solve any problems. It didn’t cause us to reconcile.
And it was emotional torture for me because I didn’t want to divorce I was forced into it

I have adult children who are not in the home but even they were confused. I can only imagine what a 12 and a 14-year-old will be thinking. You are also condoning her behavior for them

Ex then tried to flip the narrative on the divorce. Because when I finally had my attorney force him to move out due to his Covid exposure because he was with unknown people – He told everyone he had to move out quickly and therefore he had a disadvantage in the divorce and was quite difficult during the property settlement – because he didn’t have enough time to remove his belongings properly
Complete bs
And he is continuing with that narrative that he was so responsive and he moved out immediately
All allowing him to stay in the house in the name of being calmer and easier did was actually create a more gut wrenching and difficult scenario for me.
And it gave him his cake. Which he took
Advantage of every second
There is no way you can live with her for three years everyone here has made that point. And if the relationship breaks up you’re stuck with this person who has put you in an absolutely inhumane dynamic.

There is no way you could function as a normal family for those children. Better to have them on your own terms alone
I’ve been there please learn from my experience
You have my total empathy.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Meanwell

“What I realize now Is all I did was maintain a home, and give him a safe secure place with Which to continue to cheat and abuse me and make himself more secure in the divorce. And his next relationship.”

This description fits you, Guy.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  Meanwell

“He was at a disadvantage”….said the abuser liar cheater thief traitor fraud snake oil salesman, etc.

They dish it out in boatloads and then they’re the poor widdle victims when the boomerang comes back upside the head.

Gets me every time.

Meanwell
Meanwell
2 years ago

Oh my for another thread but he is still doing it. I got a good settlement he handled himself very poorly during the divorce process. And now he’s portraying me as someone who hired an aggressive attorney and he got ripped. Everything I did for him before he has manipulated into a narrative where he has a victim. Take care

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago

????

Meanwell
Meanwell
2 years ago

Is that a boomerang? Perfect.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago
Reply to  Meanwell

Yes. I like to use emojis sometimes to show appreciation and validation for another’s comments.

Samsara
Samsara
2 years ago

And you do it very well too SPBAS ????

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
2 years ago
Reply to  Meanwell

Exactly. My situation was pre-Covid and had a shorter timeline, but the basic story is the same. Everything I did at his request to aid his search for a new home and resettlement was taken for granted. Every promise he reneged on during this process was evidence that I was a bitch.

A person who lies and cheats on you behind your back is not going to treat you any better once you start standing up for yourself. They will just start lying and complaining about you to a bigger audience.

BBM
BBM
2 years ago

Guy fellow male chump here. I can feel your pain right now. Literally. You’re scared about being alone and losing time with your kids. NONE OF WHICH YIU GAVE PERMISSION TO!!! I get it. It’s not fair. You tried to build a family and invested in something that was stolen from you. It’s total injustice and you had nothing to do with it. The question is, what are you going to do living forward? You’ve lost sight of you calling as a man and it’s time to take that back. You lead this situation from here on out. She gets no say in anything, only the court does. I’m also not saying this to be flippant, I’m saying this as someone who was forced to walk it. You WILL fell better when you take control of your life. She’s out and you’re solely in charge now. Shows those sweet little innocent kids how strong their dad is. Do it. Today. I’m sorry brother, I’d give you a bro hug right now if you were here because I know how painful it is. Take your manhood back. Don’t let two f’ing idiots steal that from you!!!!

Xioba Xioba
Xioba Xioba
2 years ago
Reply to  BBM

Great advice.

Meanwell
Meanwell
2 years ago

Well I guess I wrote a lot anyway. Nothing left to say except please listen to the excellent advice here and Get a lawyer and go on with your life

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
2 years ago

Hey Chump Lady, after your AMA this week, I read around own the infidelity subreddit and found a post early similar to Chump Guy’s post today.

The moderator has locked this post with the following, “This is your 7th time posting your story on this sub alone, and every time you reject all advice given. I’m going to lock this and refer you to your past posts”

https://www.reddit.com/r/Infidelity/comments/raz4po/serious_question/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

NotAnymor
NotAnymor
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Ug – he’s been getting such terrible advice on reddit too when you look at his post history.

Guy, you can TRUST that everyone on this site has been in your shoes and knows how you feel. There is no magic fix to turn wife into the person you thought she was. She was never that person. It was a mirage.

Your marriage ended the moment she decided to lie and cheat. SHE chose that – not you. The rest of your life is up to you now. Make it amazing for you and your kids.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Yes, it looks to be our letter writer today.

This is where the wisdom is, IMHO.

Take it or leave it at one’s own peril.

I for one am glad I took it. It’s painful but the only way to go. The pain of leaving is finite; the pain of staying is infinite and far worse.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago

The pain of staying IS far worse. I saw it happen with two of my mother’s supposed friends. Lots of rage directed towards their spouses, which was terrible for their respective children. Nobody wants to spend time with the Bickersons. One woman is still alive (92) with dementia which I’m convinced her husband’s decades (5+) of abuse caused in addition to her abusive childhood.
I wrote “supposed” to describe these two friends of my mother because I think they envied her post-divorce freedom in a perverse way. And lashed out at her. Mind you, my mother was dumped twice (two legal separations) by my abusive father. It would have made a world of difference if she had NOT taken him back. Instead she framed it as “If a man like that doesn’t want me, what does that make me ?”

Guy ,you sound very stuck. My thoughts are with you that you find a way forward and getting away from your abuser, on to a better life. ❤️

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
2 years ago

Yes, please escape that horrible situation. The marriage is over. The only thing left to do is to (1) decide if you are going to stay on the floor while she does whatever she wants because she is soon going to leave with everything you hold dear (I’m talking the kids), and she’s going to get her way down on paper or (2) get off the floor and get things down on paper before she gets to it.

Basically, it’s done; there’s nothing to save. Now, whoever moves first will be in a better position.

Be the one to move first, particularly while she’s on her honeymoon period with the AP. Get off the floor, move first, and see a lawyer.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

The abuse, abandonment and divorce did my mother in. Horribly abused as a child, she didn’t have a solid foundation to start life as an adult. She should have left a couple of years into the marriage but didn’t. She had the right instinct to seek therapy but we all know there are a lot of incompetent or outright fucked up therapists out there. Nobody was talking about narcissistic abuse in the 60s, 70s or even the 80s. Even today, most therapists don’t see cheating as a form of domestic violence.
Oh well. Thank the heavens for Tracy, her experience and strength (and oodles of time) to maintain this blog and create this invaluable online international resource. Ten year anniversary next year !

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

“The pain of leaving is finite; the pain of staying is infinite and far worse.”

And there we have it in a nutshell.

It’s the unknown that’s scary. But, take that leap, man. It WILL be better on the other side.

Lulu
Lulu
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

It sounds like this guy is desperate for a magical solution that doesn’t involve divorce.

Hopium4years
Hopium4years
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Guy has so far been paralyzed with fear.

Unfortunately, there are many people who think being alone is worse than staying in an emotionally abusive relationship. It jeopardizes their physical and mental health but still they stay.

I used to be one of them.

I hope CL’s and CN’s bitchslaps might get through to Guy; apparently the infidelity subreddit tried but he’s still stuck.

As CL says, living with a known cheater is WAY worse than being alone. I know because I tried to do it and I was miserable. It’s depressing and draining. It’s not living, it’s existing. Clinging to a marriage broken by a cheater is like relying on a broken main parachute and failing to use the reserve chute: you’re (emotionally) dead, you just don’t know it yet. But it’s not too late if you pay attention to advice from experienced skydivers (chumps).

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago
Reply to  Hopium4years

Fight, flight, freeze or fawn in the face of an attack. He’s in freeze (and fawn ?) mode right now.
Guy please get in fight mode for your own sake, and for the benefit of your kids.

GetMeOutASAP
GetMeOutASAP
2 years ago
Reply to  Hopium4years

This —> “Clinging to a marriage broken by a cheater is like relying on a broken main parachute and failing to use the reserve chute: you’re (emotionally) dead, you just don’t know it yet.”

After 9 months of the pick me dance, I finally realized how emotionally dead I was. And then I found CL and CN. Feels like an emotional resurrection.

Dawn
Dawn
2 years ago

Dear Guy,
It’s already over, your marriage. There is literally nothing for you. Nothing for you to work with, nothing that is healthy for you, nothing that is healthy for your kids. What you’re clinging to is only propping up your wife, whose behavior is quite obscene, not only in the lewd and indecent meaning, but also these synonyms; vile, foul, shocking, foul. We all really understand the impact of such shockingly horrific behavior and the temptation to try to understand it, because in most other areas of our lives, understanding something helps us change it for the better. Unfortunately, this is all the understanding you’re going to get: your wife is now your wife in name only, and there will never be a better time to get a good settlement for yourself and your kids. That’s it. The why doesn’t matter (because she could), the how could she doesn’t matter (she is broken and feels entitled), the devastating wish to return to a more innocent time doesn’t matter (are you sure this is the only time she has cheated? It’s quite common to have more than one affair…). What matters is that you get out of the shock and depression. GET MAD. Get mad and let that energy carry you into finding a lawyer, getting a settlement, getting your wife into that apartment she wants so badly (my guess is she really doesn’t want that and will fight you for the house…) and making plans for the rest of your life. GET MAD and GET OUT. Good luck.

Lulu
Lulu
2 years ago

Guy Chump, you’re sitting on top of a gold mine as far as divorce is concerned and you don’t even realize it. Let me lay it out for you.

(1) If you’re in a state that recognizes at-fault divorce for adultery or abandonment (depending on how your state defines the latter) you have grounds for both. Sex with a spouse after an affair is disclosed is often considered forgiving or condoning it, which you haven’t, since you haven’t had sex. Furthermore, your wife has admitted that she stopped being intimate with you and engaging in the marriage since she reconnected with her sweetheart. Although alienation of affection suits are hard to come by and rarely yield results, you have the perfect grounds for one right there. Those laws were defined with situations like yours specifically in mind. Nothing will throw a grenade on this romance more than your wife’s husband being listed as a corespondent on your divorce or getting subpoenaed.

(3) Your children aren’t babies, so you don’t need to worry about this man supplanting you as their father or becoming a father figure to them (in the event he does make good on his promise to leave his wife). They’re old enough to understand concepts of cheating and the consequences of it and they’re also old enough to decide with whom they will choose to live.

(4) Your wife cannot whisk your kids away from you unless you allow it. You and your wife have a very outdated view of custody arrangements; the default custody arrangement in most places is 50/50.

(5) If your wife is truly delusional and wholeheartedly believes she has a future with this man, then you can totally capitalize on this by getting her to agree to a settlement that is less than what she is legally entitled (for example, a single lump-sum payout in lieu of a share of your 401K or selling the house) if she thinks it’s enough for her to settle into her own place and be able to entice her beloved to liberate himself from his wife.

(6) This time that you’re currently spending in limbo can be used to consult with a lawyer and put a strategy in place for how you can get a favorable settlement and custody arrangement. You can start putting money into your own savings. You can document your caregiving activities with the kids and work around the house. You can track how much time she is spending away from the home with her AP and how much she is spending outside of the marriage. While she’s in LaLa Land, you could be creating a solid paper trail and nest egg for yourself.

(7) But even if you’re unwilling to do any of the above, you could quickly end the affair simply by telling his wife. I can say with about 90% certainty that this piece of shit OM has no intention of walking away from his marriage, tarnishing his family man image, significantly downgrading his lifestyle, paying child support for 5 heartbroken children, and residing with a pair of angry teenagers who are likely to hate his guts, just for the privilege of fucking your wife on a more consistent basis.

Once the affair is blown up, you can then decide whether you feel like it’s worth remaining married to a woman who, at best, is settling for you because the man she really wants has discarded her, or, at worst, actively despises you for driving her soul mate away.

gramchump
gramchump
2 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

Lulu, Number #7 I completely agree with!!! Guy should tell the APs wife with evidence so the wife doesn’t go into denial. Guy should record a conversation with his estranged wife after he gets legal advice. That grenade right there would be just desserts for AP and guys wife.

Lulu
Lulu
2 years ago
Reply to  gramchump

Agreed. Just to clarify, I think he should tell the wife regardless But the ideal situation would be to go through 1 through 6 and then drop the bomb after the ink is dry on the divorce.

Cam
Cam
2 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

Are any states in the US “at fault” these days? I didn’t think there were.

Lulu
Lulu
2 years ago
Reply to  Cam

All states have a no-fault option; some states retained fault options in addition to no-fault options.

TheDivineMissChump
TheDivineMissChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

Nope, not where I live in the US… there are only at fault options in my state. The plus side is a divorce can be finalized in 30 days from filing.

Chump
Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

I live in NYS so it’s no fault. Her affair won’t help me legally in any real way I’m sorry to say.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Chump

Even in a no-fault state, you can threaten to depose the AP to find out if she has dissipated marital assets, etc. Guarantee your wife won’t like that.

Lulu
Lulu
2 years ago
Reply to  Chump

New York does have an adultery option for fault-based divorce if you have concrete evidence (such as from a private investigator). It won’t impact your financial settlement or custody but the cause would become a matter of public record for both your wife and her AP.

Meanwell
Meanwell
2 years ago
Reply to  Chump

I also live in a no-fault state. Texas. However infidelity effects property settlements/ division and custody issues With minor children.
Here, no-fault means you don’t have to prove anything for divorce, but if you have cause it can be used. Other areas that effect settlement include abandonment, mental illness etc. Again see a lawyer

Chump Dude
Chump Dude
2 years ago
Reply to  Chump

That is not necessarily true. You still probably won’t have to pay any alimony.

Cam
Cam
2 years ago
Reply to  Chump

You’re not a legal professional, don’t assume anything. See a lawyer.

gramchump
gramchump
2 years ago

Guy, So sorry you’re going through this. You have been blindsided so your reality/history immediately changed. You are in flight/fight/freeze. Right now you are in freeze stance. Chump lady is advocating rightly to shift to fight.

You have an advantage a lot of chumps don’t have in that your estranged cheater wife thinks your compliant with her timeline wishes. While she thinks everything is going her way get your ducks in a row. Even if you live in a no fault state. Get top advice, get evidence of the affair, especially during pandemic. Maybe since she makes little money it adds insult to injury that she will get half plus whisked away by AP and not see the children as much. Maybe not so if you talk to a good lawyer. Some no fault states do evaluate greivous behavior in dividing assets. Also you may get custody primarily if she endangered her family with COVID-19 without regard for them. Also check for STDs I know you haven’t been intimate for awhile but she may have been a cheater long ago judging by her lack of morals.

ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
2 years ago

Also, one of my male chump friends recently lived your scenario. First with a wife that wanted to ‘open things up’ but really just wanted to be with her horizontal tango partner. Next, she blame shifted and said it was all him. This dude is a really kind, supportive soul who genuinely loved her. I heard his anguish. They lived together for a while but eventually things came to a head and she moved out. He was heartbroken but NOW he is doing so much better. It took months but he healed and realized what hell he was being put through. He’s now sorted his stuff out and I think found a measure of peace. Some version of this could be you.

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
2 years ago

I think Chump Guy has been posting over on the infidelity subreddit.

A post from Dec. 7 describing very similar circumstances was locked with the moderator leaving the following comment:

“This is your 7th time posting your story on this sub alone, and every time you reject all advice given. I’m going to lock this and refer you to your past posts.”

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

I read through his subreddits and agree that it’s depressing that he won’t do what needs to be done.

However, I freely admit that that used to be me too. I wanted my marriage. I wanted my husband. And I was prepared to endure anything to keep it all tied together.

I was given a lot of really good advice that easily can be boiled down to “Fourleaf, WTH? You’re taking him back!?! Don’t take him back again! Under no circumstances should you ever take him back!” Past-Fourleaf’s response to all that advice that I didn’t want to hear or implement in any way was: “He’s changed! He says he wants a reconciliation and that he’ll work on our marriage. You’ll see. We’ll be stronger than ever and I will *not* end up a divorced, single mom. Those affairs of his was just a blip on the road that we’ll laugh about together when we’re old and grey, you’ll see.”

Guess who was right? The people who had been in my situation before and knew better.
Guess who wasn’t right? Me.

I see a lot of my past self in Guy’s posts, here and on the subreddit. I was looking for some sort of magic spell, or pill, or theory, or *anything* that would hold my marriage together in any way, shape, or form and I was not prepared to do what needed to be done. I even reconciled with a cheater who cheated all throughout the reconciliation and I also just “raised the white flag” thinking, well… this is Hell on earth but at least I have my family all together under one room; at least I have a husband.

Until he packed his bags and left for GF#3/Wifetress’s house. Something he promised he wouldn’t do. And I ended up without my precious family all under one room anyway.

Guy Chump, I didn’t listen to help and I didn’t take any of that good advice until it was too late. I didn’t want to hear it and I didn’t think I was capable of implementing it. I would have rather kept my surrender flag flapping in the wind in the hopes that he would stay with me somehow and save me from being divorced.

Then he left. And I thought of how horrible it would be if he saw a lawyer first and made the first moves to take my children away from me. Erase me as a wife first and then erase me as a mother too.

I got off the floor. I started listening to all that advice I didn’t want to hear. I started doing all the things I didn’t want to do.

I was on antidepressants at the time, living in legal poverty, had been left with two dependents still being potty-trained, *and* was still in love with my cheater FW. And somehow, I did it. I gathered paperwork. I called a lawyer. I felt like throwing up every day. I hyperventilate while my mother drove me to the lawyer’s office. I sobbed like a madwoman in that lawyer’s office. I lost weight, hair, and I generally looked like a skinny, puffy-eyed ghoul 24-7.

My life was getting ripped apart and *I was not doing well,* not at all. But I did it anyway because my children were watching me. I had to at least pretend I was strong… so I pretended. I pretended hard. My throat burned from the daily puking (I stress vomit).

In short… the advice you’ve been given here, Guy, and on that subreddit is spot on. You need to start moving on this. You need to see a lawyer. You need to ensure the safety of yourself and your children and that is *not* by staying with a cheater. You’re dying every day you stay in that house.

Get off the floor and start moving towards the exit sign. Some days it will be in big ways (like phoning a lawyer! That’s a big step!), and some days it will be in very little ways (like making sure you don’t forget to eat and maybe making a few photocopies of some personal documents before you decide that that’s all you can take for the moment). But move towards the exit sign (and salvation) every day. Big steps, baby steps, doesn’t matter.

I don’t fault you for “giving up,” “giving in,” and waving the white flag just to avoid getting divorced. I used to be that way too and it got me nowhere except to the bottom of a deep, dark pit of depression that my cheater kicked me into. I know you don’t want to hear it because I didn’t want to hear it either but… start climbing.

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

Fourleaf,
I salute you for telling your story. It’s going to help some chumps like nothing else can.
Guy Chump needs to repeatedly read your bittersweet, powerful, compassionate post.
– There just ain’t NO Magic or Escape –

Liberation!
Liberation!
2 years ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

Thank you for your honesty, Fourleaf. I’m new to posting, but your heartbreak resonates with me as I begin divorce proceedings to end a 30-year marriage. The level of cruelty and casual disregard of these cockroaches truly knows no bounds. If there is any “benefit” to be realized from the ravaging abuse, it’s the ability to journey with another. The pain you’ve endured helps me walk (and sometimes crawl) through mine.

Samsara
Samsara
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

GuyChump posting 7 times is concerning… that means the situation has been ongoing. Huge compassion for him as the trauma bonding / Stockholm Syndrome is keeping him stuck. He needs to realize it will only end when he calls time. And the longer he stays the worse it will get. This was a tough post to read.

Schrodinger’s Chump
Schrodinger’s Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Yikes. Maybe he’ll at least go to therapy. For himself. NOT marriage counseling.

Discarded Wife
Discarded Wife
2 years ago

I wish all the chumps in the world had my wonderful mother. She is now passed on, but is smiling down from heaven.

My mother was a devotedly Catholic till-death-do-you-part kind of woman. But when I was a teen, her good friend got divorced and was totally screwed over by her ex-husband. My mother told me, as a teen, “don’t divorce lightly, but if you ever do divorce, get your own lawyer and file first”. It was my late mother’s voice that I heard in my head that awful DDay night. I followed Mom’s advice and it served me well.

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
2 years ago
Reply to  Discarded Wife

Fantastic advice. She sounds wonderful. 🙂

Trudy
Trudy
2 years ago

Hey bud. Run. Run and be free of this madness. Take your babies and go. Be free. Be happy again. Hugs

Schrodinger’s Chump
Schrodinger’s Chump
2 years ago

Please get into therapy. You need to be the stable and sane parent for your kids, but also do it for yourself. I understand that you were in shock and reeling, but please don’t leave the house and leave your kids with your wife again. If you want 50% (or more!) custody, you need to be able to put your kids needs ahead of your own. Part of that is getting a grip on your mental health so you can be a good parent. If your wife wants to fight you over custody, you don’t want her to be able to show the court that she is the primary parent. If you have typically left most of the parent stuff up to your wife, start getting on school email lists. Find out who their doctor and dentist is. Go to parent teacher conferences if you haven’t before. That way you can hit the ground running during your time with your kids. You don’t want there to be any question about your mental health (even if it’s caused by your cheating wife) and your ability to parent. But you also deserve to take care of yourself.

No Shit Cupcakes
No Shit Cupcakes
2 years ago

Guy – None of this is fair or fun for you or your daughters.

Not only do you need therapy, so do your girls. For their own sakes and because many courts will look upon you with favor for thinking of their mental health.

Do the financial worksheets. Check out, sign up and ATTEND any of the court’s “Co-parenting with your Ex” classes. That will make an attorney and the court happy.

This isn’t good for you.

She is horrible. Put the trash out via divorce.

SouthernChump
SouthernChump
2 years ago

THANK GOD FOR THE BITCHSLAP!!!! Guy, for the love of God and your daughters STOP this madness now, lawyer up and get the fuck out of this shit show. The damage that you are doing to yourself and your daughters by staying in this shitshow of a relationship is far worse than you getting out…..promise! Get mad! Get the fuck out! Tell the other chump spouse so she can save herself and her 5 kids! And, fuck your cunt of an ex wife. (Yes, she is already your ex because she has told you repeatedly she does not want to be with you).

portia
portia
2 years ago

Chump Nation is giving you excellent advice. You have got to take control of yourself, and do your own planning, or you will never feel good about yourself again. You are passively awaiting a decision of action from your FW and her married AP. Seriously? If you cannot muster taking action for yourself, do it for your children. You are in an excellent position to gather evidence, separate your finances, get sound legal advice, and MAKE YOUR OWN PLAN. You are in the better economic position, you are the sane parent, you can make plans to change your life. You do not have to accept the way you are being treated.

Your whole life may change. Speaking from experience, it may be tough, but I believe it will change for the better. You can live without many material things if you need to, you can spend more quality time with your children. Having a “partner” now is the last thing you need to be concerned with. You need to know you can make it on your own.

Just for perspective — everyone needs to know how to be independent. You could be in a great relationship, and your partner could suddenly die tomorrow. Would you die, too? You could not, you have children, responsibilities, a job, a future. You have a right to live your own precious life. You will be amazed if you just start taking steps in the right direction, one day you will wake up in MEH.

Therapy and research, and a complete self-evaluation will help you eliminate those ideas of “normalcy” you have which are weighing you down. Even though you perceive that you are a hapless victim here, believe me, there are things you need to change about yourself to help yourself be a healthier, happier person. It doesn’t mean you caused this situation, in any way, but in subtle ways, ways you were taught to think when you were young, you have been programmed to accept your spouse’s bad behavior. That is not OK. You have to purge these thoughts, and you will learn it is OK to love yourself and look out for your own self interests. It will make you a better parent, too. You will model good behaviors for your children, and they will learn not to take crap from their future partners (hopefully).

Fixing your picker is shorthand for all the things you need to do to change your life for the better. When you feel better about yourself and get on the other side of the tragedy you are living now, you will be amazed at how attractive you will become if you choose to start seeking a partner again in the future. Ask the survivors of chump nation how much they would like to meet a good and loyal partner, who has a job, and who loves his children. A partner who respects himself. (or herself) I can tell you from where I sit — that would be extremely attractive! We don’t need to hear about how bad your partner was. We need to be able to see how awesome you are.

Almost Monday
Almost Monday
2 years ago
Reply to  portia

Something which helped me “get over it” was how uncomfortable a woman friend/acquaintance made me. Maybe she was Borderline Personality in addition to Bi-Polar. Maybe she suffered from CPTSD. I don’t know and I stopped caring.

I realized I couldn’t ask other people to fix my situation. That was my work to do.

WeAreTheChumpions
WeAreTheChumpions
2 years ago

Get a P.I., have him take pictures, send them to AP’s wife, or go tell her yourself. Then let the chips fall where they may. They will most likely fall in your favor, which means the SHTF at his house, since he most likely had no intention of ever divorcing his wife and leabing his family. Then leave your wife in the dust. Let them live out the consequences if their actions, while YOU stay ahead of the game.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago

My lawyers during my divorce stated that in their 30 years of experience dealing with divorces from adultery that 99% of AP’s run a mile once the woman ends up divorced and are faced with the reality of a divorced cheater with kids in tow.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

Yup. Male affair partners in hetero cheating situations are just having fun, dipping their wick wherever.

QuantumChump
QuantumChump
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

Yup! I told her AP “You fuck it, you feed it. She’s yours”. They didn’t last long after I removed one leg of the love triangle.

TheDivineMissChump
TheDivineMissChump
2 years ago
Reply to  QuantumChump

Love this!

WeAreTheChumpions
WeAreTheChumpions
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

Yep. Reality bursts their fantasy bubble fast.

Adelante
Adelante
2 years ago

Guy, your wife sucks. And you are smoking the hopium at levels that have left you supine before her. Take a cold, hard look at what she’s laid out for you. She feels entitled to live with you (and on your dime) for three years because her cheating partner doesn’t want to upset his own life. She’s dancing to his tune and you, in turn, are dancing to hers! Fuck her and fuck that guy. Get up off the floor and take control of your life. I and a lot of other now fuckwit-free former chumps can guarantee that’s the only way you’re going to start to feel better.

The unequal distribution of power going on in your marriage is breathtaking. Forget that “tentative agreement” you’ve made. Why would you feel bound by that promise when she wasn’t even bound by her marriage vows? You’re seeing your “tentative agreement” as binding because of all that hopium you’re smoking, and all that hopium has left you catatonic and unable to act on your behalf. You write as if you have no agency. You want her to come to her senses; you want the other man’s wife to find out. You want something to come along and happen to make the situation better. But the only way the situation is going to get better, the only way you are going to feel better, is when you act.

As others have said, your marriage is over. Your wife has devalued and discarded you, but still wants the benefit of your support, emotional and financial. Fuck that. She sucks. You can trust that she sucks, and you can trust that she sucks because she has shown you that she sucks. She lied to you for months. She lived a secret life for months. She devalued you and your daughters because she was willing to expose you to the coronavirus just so she could have the thrill of illicit sex. She’s willing now to subject you to the emotionally devastating situation of living with a spouse who doesn’t love you because it’s convenient for her. Her entitlement is breathtaking! Her lack of empathy is complete. She even thinks she can go live with her cheating partner and take your daughters, who I doubt very much would look positively on their mother’s acting as if their father can simply be replaced by another man. She wants what she wants because she wants it and everyone else is supposed to act to give her what she wants. No consequences.

Again: She sucks! Epically! Trust that she sucks. Act accordingly and go see a lawyer. Acting and trusting she sucks have a reciprocal effect. Once you trust that she sucks and act to protect yourself and your daughters, you’ll lose your taste for hopium. And taking action will also help you see that she sucks.

Dr Chumphead
Dr Chumphead
2 years ago

Dear Guy Chump,

I feel so much sympathy for you right now. You are being abused, terribly. You must extricate yourself from this situation as soon as possible, for the sake of your own life and mental health. Getting out of that house (or your wife out of it) has to be done as soon as possible. When that happens, you can start to grieve for the life and future you thought you had, because as the others say, it’s gone. The wife you knew was a hologram that no longer exists. It will be terrible and at times very, very dark. But the only way is through, there is no way around.

Your wife has treated you terribly and is undeserving of you. You didn’t do anything wrong here. She has used the pandemic as an excuse to break her vows. My fuckwit did something similar. Instead of talking to me and opening up he decided to spill his guts to some guy he met at work and had known for all of three months. The difference between us and them is that when we were having a tough time (we were ALL in lockdown remember, not just them) we didn’t start trying to fuck someone else. Your wife did. That action betrays a massive character flaw that should be a deal breaker. You invested in a life with this woman on the understanding that you would both be there for each other, whatever happens. Not there for each other until things got a bit tough and then finding some crusty old dick from high school to have sex with. You certainly didn’t agree to hang around like a lost puppy while she waits for THREE YEARS to go and set up a life with some other married man. Not OK. Appalling behaviour. It must seem like she has been possessed by some evil spirit, like she’s had a head transplant and that she’ll pop her old head back on pretty soon and you can both forget about the whole thing. No. This is the real her. What has happened is that the mask has slipped. Watch what happens when the consequences of her actions (i.e. you kicking her to the kerb and filing for divorce) come knocking at her door. You will see more lies, more manipulation and more gaslighting. There will undoubtedly be a fuck ton of blameshifting. This is not your fault and it is all on her. Do not let her discard you and swap you for some arsehole she thinks she knows. That’s not OK and you have to stand up for yourself here.

You need friends and family to help you with this, if they can. Therapy alone will likely not be frequent enough. Once a week didn’t cut it for me and from what you say I don’t think it will cut it for you either. Go and stay with a close friend or a loved one if she refuses to leave. I don’t know what the laws are like where you are, but I think it’s unlikely you’ll be able to kick her out, sadly. Use the support network you have. Times like these are what these networks are for. It will help you immeasurably to have some pressure taken off, even if its from some mundane tasks like cooking or cleaning or doing some laundry. Take some time off work. A couple of weeks at least. Go and see your doctor and get whatever medication you need to get you through this. Talk to your boss and tell him what you’re going through. You don’t want to be surprised with conversations with management about any grief induced poor performance.

Get a lawyer now. The best one you can afford. She talks to them now, not you. Fight for your children. They will be better off with a parent who isn’t prone to this kind of insane behaviour. Document everything you do to be a good dad for them and document every time she slacks off her responsibility to go and fuck her true love in the back of her car down some godforsaken side alley. The sooner you do this the better. You won’t regret it and it is one of many steps you need to take to get back your sense of self worth.

I hope this has been helpful. Join r/ChumpLadyNation on reddit. It’s full of people from all over the world who have been put through the same thing as you. There will be someone awake at whatever time you choose to post and however often.

The best of luck to you. Take charge now. Don’t look back. You can walk away with your head held high.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Dr Chumphead

Excellent points. I would add that private investigators are very helpful for getting car-humping videos, etc., which chumps should never attempt to get themselves (unless the humped-in car is parked smack in front of the chump’s house).

But PIs are professionals and courts accept them as such. Thus PIs evade the optics of “stalking” because a) good PIs respect the law and know where the legal line is; b) all good lawyers use and work with them; c) many judges appreciate that legally-gotten hard evidence tends to shorten and simplify contentious cases so everyone can clear their desks and get home for dinner.

Hiring a PI on the advice of a wise attorney friend was well worth the money and the smartest thing I did in the middle of my chump haze. I had previously thought doing so was “creepy” but soon learned it’s a respected tactic in the legal arena, never mind what dopey bystanders think. Secondly, it added to my posse and made me feel less alone: my experienced PI had heard and seen everything and gave expert philosophical feedback, talking about other cases and other chumps (obviously without naming them) who landed on their feet. He also made me laugh for the first time in ages. Thirdly, it put me into a bit of a predatory mindset and closer to constructive anger which shook off my deadly paralysis and helped me keep things closer to my chest.

All in all, hiring a PI and lawyer who worked well with each other made me realize that one big reason for my paralysis wasn’t as much to do with heartbreak as sheer terror. I was in full blown batered woman Stockholm syndrome because FW had– for months– systematically and subtly implanted the fear that I could lose custody of my children because my reaction to pre-D-day gaslighting had affected my health and sleep terribly, which FW used as grounds to suggest I was an “unfit” parent. For instance, he hinted my weight loss was proof of “eating disorder” = “mental illness,” etc. Both the PI and attorney laughed that notion away, especially in light of the smoking gun surveillance photos and videos of FW and his (and I quote) “dumpy drunken bimbo” stumbling out of bars while FW texted he was “working late.” The hard evidence totally foiled FW’s terror tactic.

Rather than being traumatized by the surveillance pix, I became very fond of them because just the fact they existed assured I would keep majority custody of my beloved children. As my terror faded, so did the sense of captor-bonded ersatz love and I felt freer.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago

There is nothing original in this letter that has been done or said or felt. Here is where you will hear from the people who have seen and heard and felt EXACT same things. Here is where you will also learn the only sane responses to this complete and utter cruel selfish bullshit that will lead you and your daughters back to a life of stability and security and safety.

Your wife made a deal with the devil. Now she’s asking you to co-sign on the contract.

DON’T.

If not for you, for your daughters. Don’t teach them that this is OK by buying in
and signing up. I would have a hard time staying out of jail if a future partner did this to my daughter, and I would be setting her up for exactly that by staying. Our house (she is mid-teens) is Cheater Response school.

Get a LAWYER.
Get a great therapist (someone who understands that cheating is ABUSE, and that what your wife is doing now is further ABUSE).
Come here and read to get your head in the right place and get support.
Gather trusted friends for support.
TELL High School Boy’s wife so she can make the informed decision that her so-called husband and your so-called wife deprived her right to make.

When your horse dies it’s time to get off. Your wife chose to kill your family instead of taking actions to strengthen it. Like a sociopathic nurse who kills her patients.

There is no way to know for sure what she’s done or will do in the future. NO WAY. She is an iceberg you just saw the tip of.

Read up on former senator from Oklahoma, Ralph Shortey. That’s the league she and High School Boy belong to, and who you’d be married to. You don’t have a marriage. You have a MIRAGE, and to stay in it you will need to anesthetize somehow.

ALONE IS BETTER THAN IN A BAD RELATIONSHIP.

I am so sorry for what has happened. This is the lifeboat. Please get in so we can row you to safety. Let the morons stay on the Titanic swapping deck chairs.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago

Or as an old friend says, “Nothing is better than some things.”

MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
2 years ago

Ask a lawyer if it helps in your state to have evidence of infidelity for a fault divorce. If it does, hire a private investigator now before schmoopie dumps her and get what evidence you can which will hold up in court. I am sure that will help on the financial side, if nothing else.

I found out klootzak was cheating (again) while 7 months pregnant. I literally brought my child into the world knowing I would likely be sharing custody down the road, so I have had years to absorb it. It is still hard but I finally realized that, until my child is old enough to have a say, it is better for him to spend half his time with a sane parent than full time with me and a disordered person who controls us both and creates chaos and drama. One of the attorneys I interviewed asked what I am seeking for custody. I said I would want full custody with visitation because a child has a right to know both parents. However, I am a realist and in my jurisdiction, the courts want split custody. So I told the attorney that, hard as it will be, I understand that I may need to accept splitting time. Klootzak has three times the income I do and a wealthy family which may back him up. I don’t have the financial wherewithal to fight klootzak for full custody. In truth, I suspect klootzak will want plenty of free time to chase women and I will document every time he declines to take our child for his time. But yes, losing time with your child is the penalty for breeding with a fuckwit. And delaying just keeps your kids more exposed to full time toxicity.

I have been taking my time lining up my ducks to get out. I see the finish line where I will file probably in the next 3 months or so. I don’t like change. It’s scary. But it’s the right thing to do. You really have to wrap your head around that and take action. You have the financial upper hand so it will be easier for you than for many of us. Klootzak controlled all the credit so I was only an authorized user and had no major cards of my own. I had to get that rolling and improve my credit score so I will be well positioned for taking my first mortgage. There were a few things that took time. But at least I am clawing my way out, like the guy in Shawshank Redemption. Someday klootzak will come in my office and move the calendar on my wall to find a tunnel dug with a spoon. But Guy, you have to start digging. Your days of being victimized and run over by these people must be over. Make a plan. And I think telling the chumped wife and providing evidence will help. You are not the only victim in this and helping your daughters (into counseling with you!) and the chumped wife will maybe help you get out of your funk and start moving you forward. But YOU have to start.

Lawyer up!

Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff
2 years ago

Every time I think I’ve read or heard it all…

This post brought anger and tears to my eyes. I’m speechless, but even if I wasn’t I wouldn’t be able to add anything that ChumpLady and her loyal followers haven’t already eloquently stated.

I’m also a guy Chump, and I have young children myself. While I haven’t been in your exact shoes, I’ve gone through it. I promise you it’s better on the other side. You’re not going to lose your kids and they will continue love you fiercely. If you lived in metro Detroit I would willingly help you through this.

Please update us on your VERY SOON TO BE divorce.

Good luck my man. We are all pulling for you.

Hopium4years
Hopium4years
2 years ago
Reply to  Spaceman Spiff

[Off topic: Spaceman Spiff is the BEST username! I smile whenever I see it. Thanks for reminding me of the wonderful Calvin and Hobbes. Infidelity sucks… but humor helps with healing.]

Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff
2 years ago
Reply to  Hopium4years

Ha thanks. I went with Tracer Bullet as my handle once before as that’s my favorite “character” Calvin plays, but it occurred to me that may not be the most appropriate handle.

Dr Chumphead
Dr Chumphead
2 years ago
Reply to  Spaceman Spiff

It’s terrible, isn’t it? I feel so, so sad for him being put through the ringer like this.

Spaceman’s right, we are all pulling for you.

Doubly Chumped
Doubly Chumped
2 years ago

Oh boy…this is a giant mess of a situation. My heart breaks for you, Guy.

Sounds like the AP is manipulating and gaslighting your wife the same way she did to you. Karma will get her in time. I know it hurts. But it’s quite comical she thinks she will have a life with this other married man. I’d bet it never happens. But I digress…I second what CL says. Take control of your own life. Show your kids that you are strong and know what you deserve. You are not a doormat and you will not stand to treated like this. I’m not saying you have to share everything with them. But kids know when something isn’t right and they can feel what you feel. Take your power back. You seem like a caring father and loving partner. Someone will value you for that. You got this!! You’re in a dark pit now but you can get out of it.

Cloud
Cloud
2 years ago

My ex was the “enlightened” philosopher who argued that open marriage is the way to live. I said no, but he got on Adult Friend Finder and had threesomes anyway- then because he was so “honorable and honest” he told me. I freaked. He said sorry and swore he’d never do it again. I believed him.
Flash forward 10 years: he had just taken it all underground. He had two current mistresses (one from Craigslist, one an old GF) and our 27 year marriage with our 5 kids. Too much secrecy he said. Too hard to manage all three of us! Do an open marriage or I’m leaving!
I played the pick me dance, consumed hopium by the lungfuls, waited for the fog to lift. My adult age kids also played the pick me dance. What did he do? Ordered sex toys for the Craigslist mistress on the family Amazon account and say “I love you too” to the mistress in front of me and the kids. Honesty, after all!!
It was HELL.
18 months later the divorce was final. Five years later and I’m still recovering less from the secret affairs and more from those 18 months of an “open marriage.”

I remember the fear and the hope that kept me from acting. But trust me: while it’s not been pleasant the last 3.5 years (money, loneliness, the whole shit sandwich), the very worst moments have been a thousand times better than those 18 months. I should have left on Dday. Hell, I should have left after the threesome ten years earlier. The faster you get out, the faster you’ll heal and get your life back. Promise. Promise. Promise.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago

I hear you OP and how you are feeling but divorce and leaving this selfish monster is not as difficult as it may seem. I was in the same position last year in April when my now ex-wife’s cheating was exposed. One main AP and caught cheating with over 20 others. I went straight for divorce. Got my own new home, new job and my my life now being divorced is a million times better. I’m dating and having a great time and wish I had never met her/left her years ago.

Also realised I have not been angry in months and months now. Been divorced for 10 months and honestly the best thing I ever did. You will get through this. Trust me, you may not see it now but there are thousands and thousands of women out there who WON’T ever treat you that way and in time you’ll wonder what you ever seen in her. CL has the right terminology “lose a cheater, gain a life”.

ShePersisted
ShePersisted
2 years ago

Guy – I am so terribly sorry for what has happened to you, but I PROMISE you that your life WILL BE BETTER on the other side of this shitshow. I didn’t believe it either, but I promise you. Separate yourself from this woman now and embrace your life. You will be healthier and happier. I know it doesn’t seem that way during the dark days in the beginning, but your life will be amazing once your separate yourself from this abuse. Get a supportive therapist that is trained in betrayal trauma. EMDR therapy is excellent. Get a lawyer. You will get through this and life will be amazing again. I promise.

Guy chump
Guy chump
2 years ago

I’m glad I was directed to this site and posted my current situation. I appreciate all the guidance and advice I’ve gotten so far. I know I should be taking action to separate and divorce as quickly as possible although I’ll be honest my fear of being in a small apartment alone and feeling the anxiety and depression from this situation which has caused me to lose weight and nkt take care of myself has severely disabled me. I’m having a hard time functioning to be honest and live on at least one Xanax and day if not too. I want to get from dad and broken to just angry and disgusted but I can’t get there.

James
James
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Hi Guy

I don’t write here a lot but feel compelled after reading this. Your story is nearly exactly the same as mine. The ex BF who she decided was her twu wuv soul mate. The depression you are feeling now. The worry about what will happen to your kids. And if you are like me the fear she will run off and be soooo much happier with the fuck wit.

Mate I am 12 months from where you are right at this minute and while I am not all the way there now I have separated, have my kids 50% of the time, used the time to improve myself and all the other relationships around me and most importantly have peace in my own house.

One of the the hardest things by far (and I suspect you may be feeling it) was not being able to believe the person you invested so much into would do this. She probably tells you she loves you still or that you will always be friends etc. I have trouble with these things as well but Guy the person you thought she was, this beautiful woman that you had a life with is and always was a figment of your imagination. She does not exist and never existed. The fuckwit who will cheat, lie and gaslight you is who she is and she has stolen years of your life. If you can’t believe it then listen to what CL says – TRUST THAT SHE SUCKS because she does. Look at what she has done mate and be f*****g pissed off.

My depression went away about 5 minutes after she moved out and that’s because who wouldn’t be depressed being stuck in a house with a troll that is mentally ABUSING you. Check with a lawyer on your best move but one of you has to go for your own health. Be a strong father for you kids and leave that vacuous black hole of a woman behind because she no longer has anything for you but pain.

She has hurt you in ways most people will never understand mate so boot her the f**k out of your life and put your love into people that deserve you. I don’t believe in much but I do believe in karma and that bus will come for those two eventually. My advice to you though is not to waste your life watching and waiting for it to happen. It gets easier Guy and I won’t lie it is a slow process but the worst day you will have without her will be far better than what you have now. Live your best life with your kids mate because they deserve an awesome dad that puts time and energy into them.

And I will say it one more time for emphasis. Look at who she is now, what she has done and how she is treating you and your kids. It is disgusting and you need to find the fire to fight for yourself mate because you are better than what she is giving you.

Chin up Guy and keep reading CL because what you will read on this website is 1000 times more useful than you will find anywhere else.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Always pay attention to the language you use:

“I want to get from dad and broken to just angry and disgusted but I can’t get there.”

1. When you tell yourself “I can’t get there,” you are giving your brain an order. So reframe: I’m struggling to find the anger and disgust that will help me move forward.” There’s a world of difference there. Pay attention to how often you say “I can’t” or “I should do X, but..” There is zero evidence, for example, that you “can’t” pick yourself up and do what you need to do, even if you have to ask a relative or a friend to hold you up while you do it. Reach out. Therapist. Parents. Siblings. Close, committed friends. Tell people you need HELP to get yourself free of the situation. If you can’t face the conversation, print out the letter you sent to CL and give it to the people in your support system. You’ve laid it all out. Just choose carefully whom you tell–don’t confide in anyone who will say “stay in the marriage no matter what.”

2. You are way too focused on your own emotional state as a reason not to act. Every single person here has had to pick themselves up and go to work every day, to feed the kids, to take care of toddlers and sick parents and pets. You are probably doing some of that, too. You can’t get out of this mess without taking steps while you feel you can’t even function. That might mean getting both to a therapist and your primary care doctor to get some medication.

3. You don’t necessarily have to divorce just yet. But you should FILE and start the gears of separation in motion because more than anything else you need to be no contact with this abusive wife until your mind clears and you can make good decisions. Filing sets in motion the mechanism to get custody of your kids. Lots of people stay legally married for a year or two because of the legal issues, so you don’t have to wrap your mind around divorce itself for a while. But staying in this house for three years? That’s just nuts. Take whatever steps you need to take to get into separate households and give yourself some time to regain your sense of self.

And if I were you, I would hire a private investigator to get evidence of the affair. Document everything she says about the affair. Document what you do at home and for the kids. AND STAT PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE MONEY SHE SPENDS.

MamaSparky
MamaSparky
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

First, try to get her to move out. If she won’t, then leave. Think of the small apartment as a safe place, a healing space where you learn to stand up again. Alone (meaning by yourself) is safe. Where are you are right now is very much alone, and not safe.
In the morning, make that phone call to set up a lawyer consult. Then, get a small apt (if she won’t leave). Set it up in a way that is comforting to you, with stuff from your favorite hobbies. Books you like. Things that make you happy.
Hang in there. We’re on your side.

Older and Wiser
Older and Wiser
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Please pick up that phone! Depression will never get better without moving forward. Picking up that phone is the beginning of putting one foot in front of the other until you reach safety.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Your symptoms are normal for what is going on and I think it’s safe to say we all have been there. Just last week I slept eight hours waking up only once for the first time in four years.

Do you have a trusted friend or two or a few that can act as your executive assistants to help you take action?

You can assemble a To Do list here and then ask trusted friends to help you check things off.

GettingStronger
GettingStronger
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Trust that she sucks. It’s not fair – you’re right. You’re stronger than you think. Get that lawyer and get a therapist. Your load is heavy, but you’ve got this, and we’ve got your back.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Actions first. The feelings will catch up.

You can’t get to a happier life (with your kids, not alone!) if you keep yourself in a abusive situation.

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Do you have someone who can go with you to those difficult meetings? My mother went to every lawyer meeting with me. In fact, she had to drive me there because I was too anxious, sad, and unhappy to drive anyway. And… let’s be honest… if I didn’t have someone driving me to the place I didn’t want to go (lawyer’s office) then I likely would have blown off driving to the place I didn’t want to go (lawyer’s office) and would have kept crossing my fingers and praying for the nightmare to end all on its own.

God bless my mother for driving me there to those stupid, painful, difficult, and ultimately wonderful lawyer meetings. Bless her for hauling my butt there every single time.

One thing you can do for yourself today is start thinking about your allies. Is there anyone you can turn to during this (very very) difficult time? Is there someone you can lean on? Talk to in person? Is there even a person who you could trust to be both your cheerleader and your coach by both supporting you and, sometimes, picking you up and hauling you to your feet in order to get moving on this?

I mean… this is hard… *hard* stuff. We need people in our corner. Particularly people who, after we turn around and look at them with panicked eyes, saying “I don’t want to do this!”, stand firm and don’t let us panic and give up by saying “You *are* going to do this. I believe in you.”

And… truth be told… sometimes we even have to be that person for ourselves. But I hope you have a beloved friend or family member that you feel could be a shoulder to lean on.

Yaya
Yaya
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Have you heard that question: how do you eat an elephant? (ANSWER: one bite at a time)
Make just 1 tiny goal for today: Call an attorney and schedule a consult.
Don’t try to get everything all together right now. Just do that one thing, Now.
5 years ago, I went from feeling terrified and paralyzed with depression before my appointment with my attorney, to feeling hopeful and significantly less depressed, all after just 1 hour of sound legal advice.
Trust me, it will do you worlds of good.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
2 years ago
Reply to  Yaya

One thing at a time is great advice. Doing whatever the next step is.

The Rain Is Gone
The Rain Is Gone
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

I get it. I lost 45 pounds and couldn’t sleep more than a few hours a night. I’d wake up with such severe anxiety that I felt like I was jumping out of my skin. I was a total wreck. My friends (who didn’t know what was going on) told me later that they thought I had cancer and was dying.

I had to take action before I felt strong. You can too. Great advice here to contact a lawyer and begin. Don’t tell her until you have lined up your ducks. One step, then another. You will slowly regain your strength and one day you’ll be hungry for a good meal and sleeping through the night and you’ll wonder how you got there. Every day that you spend away from her and focused on what you need to do will take you there.

If you are in a small apartment during this process, you can set it up the way you like. The furnishings you choose, the food you like in the fridge, the shows you like on the tv. Spend your free time doing things you enjoy. Take walks if you like to, or go for a run if that helps. Exercise and nature can be very healing.

Your strength will come.

Phoenix
Phoenix
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Oh Guy Chump!! I know you are hurting, but you have to get that fire going my friend!!
Your worth as a human being is NOT tied to this relationship! There is much more to you than being a husband! This woman is ABUSING you. It’s infuriating to read that this woman is getting all of the cake: she is maintaining her family life AND her affair! Where are the consequences?! If she is going to do this, she needs to get the WHOLE experience: custody agreements, financially supporting herself, divorce, etc. She needs to experience the full consequences of her shitty actions- stop letting that AP control the narrative!
He is thrilled that you are allowing all of this to happen- because it allows him to continue to not make any decisions either. If I were you, (after lawyering up) I would let his wife know all the details. Affairs aren’t fun anymore when they secrecy is gone and the consequences start! You are allowing their fantastical Lala Land to continue. Put a stop to that shit!
Hugs to you. You will get through this, and you will wish you had made a move even sooner. Take back your power- it’s the road to healing!

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Phoenix

It’s worth noting that your wife is USING you. She’s using you for your paycheck and for someone to take care of the kids while she carries on her affair. You are no more than an ATM and a childcare provider. SHE’S USING YOU.

That’s a cold, terrible thing for one spouse to do to the other. And even if the AP gives up the affair, you will just be stuck with someone who thinks you are a combination ATM and doormat. You will never be able to trust her.

If your wife had a scintilla of decency, she would move to an apartment and carry on her affair from there. The kids would visit her on weekends or whenever it is that AP is not around. But she’s not decent. She’s selfish. And a user.

Chumpkins
Chumpkins
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Guy/Op,
It might help to know that a major part of why you feel too weak/sick to move now is illusion. The sense of terrifying aloneness and lack of confidence that you can make it on your own is the result of abuse. It’s a lie pushed by abusers because it helps them keep the upper hand. This is why “No contact” works wonders. You shake off the fog and realize that the weak, hopeless feelings were all BS. When you come out of the fog, you’ll probably realize that her abuse started long before the affair. I’m sure you feel still loyal now, and being oh so fair to her. But you’re bearing the scars of standard abuse 101.
Abusers drive away friends who “get you”, appreciate you, encourage you, and help you love yourself. So you are used to feeling isolated/alone and dependent on the abuser. When you have shined the most, felt the best about yourself, the abuser cut you down with insults or insidious mind bombs which caused self doubt. This sense that you’re not strong enough to leave has been cultivated in you. The only way to break free is to stop drinking from the poisoned well.
You have good instincts coming here. Validate that. Also, you know you’re not doing well, and that this is unsustainable. Don’t push yourself into more sickness by listening to that voice which says wait. Sometimes waiting is good, and sometimes it is paralysis which will keep you trapped until soul death. Even talking to lawyers will help break the spell, once you start seeing yourself and your options more clearly. Sitting alone in the dark ruminating, or talking to the abuser will only make you feel worse. Cultivate your strength. We’re cheering you through this walk through hell to the exit door. Don’t turn back!

Mitz
Mitz
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

Come here and read all the archives

See your doctor for a referral to a therapist (NOT a marriage counselor)

Talk to a lawyer about keeping the house and getting primary custody of the children. Most lawyers offer a free 30 minute consultation. Do as many of these with different family lawyers as you can.

You are being misused and you don’t deserve this.

You are in the ‘shock’ stage. This will pass. I lost 40 lbs and half my hair fell out in that stage. You may need a course of an anti-depressant, speak to your doctor and get a depression screening.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitz

Meds work for some but the caveat should be added that about 8- 11% of people who take SSRIs can react badly, developing akathisia or even rapid onset psychosis, including appearance of or worsening of suicidal or destructive thoughts. It’s right there in the Black Box warnings on these meds (searchable on RX-isk.com)

No one knows exactly why some react this way but I saw the effects when I was doing advocacy for dv survivors who were given these meds like candy. This was sometimes unhelpful and sometimes disastrous. In response, I began attending professiomal conferences to learn about drug risks and the politics of prescribing practices from pharmaceuticologists (not Scientologists, by the way).

It seems some of the older antidepressants carry these risks as well– maybe to a lesser extent but they’re less popular because they csn carry uncomfortable effects (constipation, etc.) Or are off-patent and not making real money for industry. In any case, the risks are real with any medication. It’s happened to people with no previous mental conditions who took the drugs by pharmacy mistake (being given, say, Celexa instead of Celebrex, etc.). It appears serotonin syndrome and drug-induced akathisia may even involve immune system response snd could be a kind of allergy. That’s why it’s important to explore this option only under the careful oversight of cautious practitioners for whom drugs are never the first line of treatment. The “reluctant” shrinks are often better and more experienced and tend to be more honest and forthright about potential side effects or risks of dependency and more canny about patients in acute crisis mixing drugs with alcohol.

I think many doctors have been forced to be more cautious since the opioid scandal, but it’s probably best to be careful of pill pushers who don’t keep a hawk eye on patients for early signs of adverse reactions. Too many shrinks are drug addicts and gaslighters themselves.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
2 years ago

This is an excellent point. There is also no pill that can magically take pain away. It’s not abnormal to feel horrible grief when a spouse cheats, a loved one dies, we lose a job or get sick.

These things just plain suck and the only way out is through the grieving process.

Taking drugs or drinking stops that process from happening and we get stuck. Xanax (which is addictive) may numb the pain, but it prolongs it greatly, sometimes for decades.

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

NotAnymore,
You’re right. Grief is normal/natural so it shouldn’t be drugged. Tears contain toxins, so grief-crying
is even healthy. Most can probably
get through the grief process without any drugs. Some don’t. Some can’t. Instead they get sick with real Clinical Depression. IMO, there’s a difference between grief & depression + grief can turn into depression. Sometimes Rx
is truly needed. There’s NO magic pill.
All are UN-natural & have side effects & do interrupt good grief. Sometimes it’s a matter of choosing the lesser of
2 evils. (Kinda like voting).
Only heard tough anti-anxiety tales.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Hogs&Dogs

Great points.

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago

Hell of a Chump,
Thank you for everything you wrote.
I was very anti-medicine, so tried other methods before I finally, reluctantly agreed to take any psych med. Had bad side effects a few times, within a few days, so I immediately stopped taking AGAINST “medical advice”. F them. After I kicked up some dust complaining about being treated like a lab animal,
I was offered a different practitioner who offered this $350 Mouth Swab Test.
Results came back with antidepressants listed under 3 columns:
YES (compatible); CAUTION (watch for
side effects); NO (not compatible).
Physicians Assistant said she never saw results like mine before. Several meds were “Yes”, but MOST antidepressants were listed under “No” column!
After taking the Right-for-me Rx, I felt better within 1 week & much better by end of 1 month.
YES, Yes, yes – Find a qualified, experienced Practitioner, Read warnings, Do your own research, Ask questions, Listen to your body, No alcohol drinking when in any psych med, Start at low dose & IF you don’t NEED Rx, just don’t.

Guy Chump is taking anti-anxiety Rx.
To me, his words drip with depression. After all research I’ve done, people are being prescribed antidepressants to treat anxiety & depression. Same Rx for both.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

You won’t be alone. Your stock as a loyal and good provider trades very high. Not that I’m recommending jumping into a rebound relationship but you will learn with each action you take to get free that most of your current paralysis and deoression are due to proximity to an abusive mindfucker who has boiled you like a frog for the duration of your relationship. Every inch yiu step away, you’ll find more oxygen and the way you feel now will change.

I remember this old episode if Star Trek I saw as a kid where Captain Kirk was trapped on a planet controlled by a giant, pulsating evil alien brain in some kind of space bell jar. The more time he spent on the planet, the more he would lose his identity until he was on his knees gripping his head muttering in that Kirk way: “Losing…all sense…of self… can’t remember … name…” His crew had to get him off the planet entirely to loosen the psychic grip of the pulsating brain. Then Kirk was like “WTF just happened?”

You are… trapped… on Planet Cheater… infested… with demented cheater reality and warped… cheater thinking…have lost… all sense… of… self… must escape… must escape….

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago

This is so great and true, and exactly why I loved the original Star Trek.

Equally relevant is the episode where the women take pills and are transformed from disheveled and depressed into vibrant and beautifully coiffed…and the pills are revealed to be placebos….

Infidelity recovery is a long term battle of the mind.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago

Amen. Personally I’m a tribble fan.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago

Sorry…for…typos…

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

“Should be, fear, anxiety, depression, weight loss, severely disabled, hard time functioning & can’t “
THESE are ALL Clinical Depression Words!
Plz consider my earlier post. (11:11am).

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
2 years ago
Reply to  Hogs&Dogs

I was on antidepressants for years. Not what I ever wanted to do, but I knew the depression was absolutely debilitating me and I had to start moving forward. I needed the help.

Hogs&Dogs
Hogs&Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

Fourleaf, Same here. Want you to know,
I think you’re wise & wonderful. Believe your posts today are going to touch & help many. Pray precious, generous You gets Blessed. often. abundantly. ((hug))

Langele
Langele
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

You can and will get there. You are in shock and are processing the cognitive dissonance between who you thought your wife was and who she really is.

Shake it off and value who you are. You need you. You children need you.

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
2 years ago
Reply to  Langele

Absolutely. If you are not feeling brave and strong for yourself then that’s fair. Instead, feign bravery and strength (fake it until you make it… that got me through *months* of horror, to be honest) for your children.

Their other option is a cheater mother. If you don’t stand up (even if you are faking it; faking it is okay) then all they are left with is a cheater mother. You are the better, stronger, more moral parent. They deserve to see your strength and dignity… even if you have to fake it at first.

Gentlechump
Gentlechump
2 years ago
Reply to  Guy chump

One step at a time.

Pick up the phone and call a lawyer. That’s all you have to do today.

You can’t be brave without first being afraid. Just take one step right now.

Big hugs. You’re not alone — you have a tribe right here on your side.

NoNameChump
NoNameChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Gentlechump

Consult with the most ruthless divorce lawyer around. Even if you don’t end up using their services, it will prevent FW from being able to use their services once you’ve consulted with them.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago

Guy,

Hmmm, the point CL made about blindsiding cheaterpants (while she’s on cloud 9 and delusional) in order to get a better settlement and custody arrangement might be hampered if you told the AP’s wife right off the bat. Upon being exposed, the AP could balk about running off into the sunset with your wife. In fact, he could bail on the affair and appear to recommit to his wife. No longer on cloud 9, your wife may get nastier than ever and try to fleece you unfairly in a divorce, accuse you of God knows what to get full custody just to be spiteful, etc.

So the ideal might be if both you and the AP’s wife could scheme to do things on the down low at first to get ducks in a row. But you can’t control what the AP’s spouse does so talk to a lawyer and carefully consider timing.

The above brings uo another risk of continuing to live with your cheater: ask a few other male chumps here about being falsely accused of domestic violence by their cheating spouses (while the same women physically attacked their chumps).

I was a dv victims’ advocate and can attest that it’s exceedingly rare for women to prevaricate and fabricate assault. Most reports are real but not taken seriously by authorities and women die because if it. But false reports do occasionally happen. In dv advocacy circles, we detest those types. They muddy the water for everyone. And I can tell you the exact type of woman who fabricates: women like your cheater.

Established compulsive liar- check.

Personality disorder– check.

Flagrant disregard for the welfare, health or lives of others, including their own children– check.

Places personal and sexual gratification above all other values– check.

She-creeps exist. And don’t ask me why but personality disordered liars always seem to get more social support for fake victim reports than genuine victims of dv, sexual harassment, etc. Maybe it’s because, while the liar allows one delicate tear to decorously trickle down a powdered cheek as they simper out their fabricated tale of woe, real victims are either ugly crying or quasi-catatonic and just not as charming.

Anyway, watch your back. You and your kids are in more than just emotional danger.

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
2 years ago

the paralysis is something. i recall listening to my heart beat, the blood swoosh through vessels, the muted thump in my ears. that paralyzed.

i wonder what a set of measurements on heartbroken folks would uncover. there are heart conditions related to heart break–the Japanese call it Takotsubo cardiomyopathy–but most of us are just stunned. it’s a lot to take in.

can you imagine rounds? a crowd of doctors around a rumpled bed. “patient Y is 12 days post D-day and exhibiting severe insomnia, rapid weight loss, and, most significantly, muted heart sounds. take a look at her ECG–the QRS is rolling instead of spiking, a sure sign of muting. dx: heart broken. can anyone tell me the treatment protocol? anyone?”

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago

I was diagnosed with A-Fib last summer. My treadmill test and my ultrasound showed my heart is structurally sound. Both cardiologists assigned to my case, after speaking with me about what is going on, agree that the stress from what happened to me is absolutely responsible for the onset.

We are not designed to withstand a sustained state of fight or flight as we experience with infidelity. It floods our system with chatecholamines, which can and does cause the onset of A-Fib.

Another chronic condition thanks to those motherfuckers.

ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
2 years ago

One day, while trying to believe a liar, I caught him in another lie. A sort of innocent one but it symbolized to me that he does not understand truth like I do. I was so heartbroken to hear yet more deception even if it was just him rewriting our story in a better light, that I fell into a very deep depression. My heart slowed and became erratic and I got days of chest pain. I am a relatively young, fit woman. This was quite literal heart break. I realized after it was getting worse and I was having a hard time drawing breath that somehow I had to mute my emotions if only to remain alive for my kids.

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
2 years ago

CCinChumptown, i hear you. it’s not a surprise to be struck with palpitations, pain, irregular heart beats. it’s quite literal heart break. i know that feeling.

i’m in it for my kids, too. onward.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago

I had this sensation that a poison or electrified micro-pellet had been injected into my blood stream and every time it circled around through my heart it would release a “zap” of either poison or deadly voltage. I realized that the trauma might actually shorten my life. As the one relatively sane parent of young kids, I didn’t have the option of letting this disaster continue.

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
2 years ago

Hell of a Chump, the electrical jolt of heart break makes total sense to me. it’s amazing what our bodies do with our emotions–reframing it so we can be the sane parent is essential.

it’s a lesson in resilience, as fucking painful as it is.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago

I think I’ll get my lessons in book form from now on.

Lilybart
Lilybart
2 years ago

Hi, Guy:

I remember how awful the pain and shock are in the beginning, and how difficult it is to start taking action. I get that. It’s the worst.

What you need to do is to start getting angry, and then let that anger drive you in getting your life back. It will be different. But what you can’t see from where you’re standing is that it will also be so much better. You will feel strong, competent, and in the driver’s seat. And you will be able to build your life up, maybe meet someone who makes you happy. Imagine that!

Dig down deep, get angry, and take action!

Chumpasaurus45
Chumpasaurus45
2 years ago

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
Your mission is to get yourself a good lawyer, divorce her ass and never look back.
You have a big advantage here, her mask has fallen, you get to see who she really is at her core. Don’t let the love you have for her block the reality of the morally devoid person she actually is. Believe what you know to be true. She does not have your back.
It doesn’t matter if it works out with this loser or