My Cheater Ex-Husband Demands ‘Civility’
Her cheater ex-husband is preemptively demanding “civility” should she encounter him again. Which assumes she’d be uncivil? How does she get him and his insults out of her head?
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Dear Chump Lady
I messaged you a few months ago about whether I should go to ex-father in law’s funeral when it comes round. Turns out FW is having the same thoughts. He has contacted the husband of my best friend, asking him to ask me if I will agree to be civil to him at future family events ‘for the sake of the children and grandchildren.’
For a start I’m annoyed at him using my friends as go-betweens. I guess he knows I don’t want him to contact me directly. But I also don’t want him to contact me indirectly!
Secondly, he’s got a cheek asking for civility.
Truth is my adult sons never invite him to family events out of respect for me. I think he’s trying to weedle his way back in to being included and if I say no he’ll blame me for the exclusion. Thirdly, it’s laughable that he is wanting this ‘for the sake of the kids/grandkids’. He has never done anything to prioritise them, including hurting them by going off with Schmoopie (who has now deserted him).
Am I being immature and unforgiving to say civility is out of the question because I never want to be within a 5-mile radius of him ever again? Not saying that won’t change in the future, but that’s how I feel now and I can’t see it ever changing?
I think he’s just playing weedling mindgames with me.
I don’t want him getting in my head again.
Thanks.
Worried About Being Painted As Immature and Selfish
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Dear Worried About Being Painted As Immature and Selfish,
I think it’s too late. He’s in your head and you’re writing to me. But it’s okay, we can eject him. Here’s a mantra:
Your ex is not the judge of your civility.
How you comport yourself in this world — even at his father’s as-yet-unannounced funeral — is none of his business. You can show up in peek-a-boo lingerie and kiss the corpse. He doesn’t control you. Isn’t divorce grand?
However, if you were going to take etiquette tips from an expert, it wouldn’t be from a failed husband and his wandering dick. So, consider the source.
He has contacted the husband of my best friend
I don’t know about this guy. He was probably broadsided, but a best friend (or her husband) would never let you know this conversation happened. They’d deep-six it as the irrelevant bid for attention it is. I understand the temptation to say, “You’re not going to believe the stunt FW just pulled…” But they should resist that temptation.
No contact is precious.
And on the off chance you have a protection of abuse order on your ex, trying to contact you through third parties is considered a breach of the law and you could have him arrested. Just a thought if he persists in unwanted contact. But at this stage I would just deny his mindf*ck oxygen.
asking him to ask me if I will agree to be civil to him at future family events ‘for the sake of the children and grandchildren.’
This is the age-worn manipulation known everywhere as How Long Have You Been Beating Your Wife?
It’s a loaded question with a false premise (that you beat your wife, that you’re uncivil). Whichever way you answer implies that you agree with the premise.
I AM ONLY UNCIVIL ON TUESDAYS!
He’s trying to put you on the back foot, arguing about your manners, where he can judge if your efforts are worthy or not. Revert to our first mantra: Your ex is not the judge of your civility.
But, but… I want him to choke on his hypocrisy.
I know. We all do. Getting lectures by cheaters about the welfare of The Children is galling. But we live in a golden age of hypocrisy. I avoid the news cycle and plant irises. We all have to find ways to distract ourselves from FWs and self soothe.
Am I being immature and unforgiving to say civility is out of the question because I never want to be within a 5-mile radius of him ever again?
No. You’re being sane. But please, don’t fall into the trap of “saying” ANYTHING. You don’t owe ANYONE a response to his idiotic provocation. Not the FW, not the best friend’s husband. No one. In fact, if I were you, I’d just avoid the funeral all together. If the FIL meant anything to you, go visit and say goodbye now and skip your ex’s family and the room-temperature sandwiches.
You don’t ever have to see your ex again if you don’t want to.
Not saying that won’t change in the future, but that’s how I feel now and I can’t see it ever changing?
He’s your past. You have grown children who have their own relationship with him (existent or nonexistent). Seeing him or not seeing him is no measure of your maturity or if you’re “moved on.” (Who holds that yardstick anyway?)
I think you’re falling into this common chump fallacy that we’re supposed to be the magnanimous forgiving person, the civil person on the high road, to a FW who has never attempted repair or apology. Why would you accept that burden? It’s not churlish to nope out of this altogether.
Where is HIS civility?
Has he paid your legal bill? Did he apologize for wasting years of your life while he had a double one? Does he render his garments in your presence? No?
Then why are you held to a different standard?
(I see you in the back of the class, feminists. Misogyny! But it’s a basic human power dynamic. Kings don’t say sorry.)
He can shove his tea sandwiches where the sun doesn’t shine. With an extended pinky finger.
No. Not really. (If it feels good don’t do it.)
But you can imagine that while you’re not responding. Return to meh.
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During the process of my divorce and during the years after, I learned a lot about communicating with a disordered person. First, I trained him that all communication needed to be written. After one particularly nasty incident I refused to be alone with him, so any attempts at communication in person always had a witness. I would not answer the phone if he called. I set up a new email address and he had to send any messages to that email address. When he sent a message I never responded immediately. Sometimes I would wait several hours before even reading it. I would consider the message and decide if it NEEDED a response. If no response was needed that was that. If I felt that I had to respond, I would use as few words as possible. After my youngest child became an adult, I blocked him on that email address.
Worried, a message sent via the spouse of a friend is not something that needs a response. Frankly, the spouse of your friend is not your friend if he thinks this is something that should be communicated as a serious request. Your ex is trying to manipulate your friends into thinking that you are not a nice person by making this request. If the spouse is pressing you for an answer tell him that you have nothing to say on the matter. Alternatively, you could explain that disordered people expect others to do what they would do. This “request” from your former spouse is merely a confession that he plans to not be civil if you should meet.
Worried About Being Painted As Immature and Selfish,
The great thing about occupying the moral high ground is that you don’t have to allow yourself to be held to account by low-life cheating vermin. You don’t owe him (or his interlocutor) an answer to the civility question and, personally, I’d avoid the funeral and find another way of showing your respect when the time comes.
LFTT
Yes, it was a major insight to me that I didn’t have to drop to his (or his family’s) level. And I never, ever have to interact unless I want to.
On Saturday, I skipped a funeral. I truly had somewhere else I needed to be anyway, and the couple that was going to be at the forefront are no longer friends of mine. His dad passed, someone I had met only 1-2 times. I sent a card.
They perpetually treated me post-divorce as broken and inept, even some years later. I got so sick of it that I pushed them to the outskirts. I had to sit with them at a wedding in October (assigned seating), and I told the friend who was with me that we might not stay long. Sure, I could have asked to be moved, but the room was small, and I didn’t. My conversation was general and friendly. We left after the cake was cut.
Yes, moral high ground.
I was very civil during the long separation and divorce. I picked an attorney who valued that, saying that I wanted to maintain my dignity throughout. My attorney was a brilliant negotiator and litigator, and a Southern gentleman to the core. My ex picked an ugly pitbull, reflecting his own ugliness.
And yet my ex kept saying that I needed to be civil. I was. He was not.
I worried for some time about how I’d handle any family funerals on his side that came up, including potentially his. I discussed it with our college kids. He was older and in poor health. We decided to read the situation as it was at the time. Never happened.
Years later, I doubt they’d even contact me if he or one of them passed. There was a lot of shame associated with how our marriage crumbled because they were very religious people who didn’t divorce. My guess is that if he passes first, they’ll quietly handle it and that’s that. And if one of them passes, I wouldn’t be included. So it is.
I think a lot of these FW exes think “civil” means, “Doing what I want them to do.” It brings to mind the Princess Bride, “That word does not mean what you think it means.”
In the early days of the divorce process, my ex used to be able to manipulate me by saying, “It’s what’s best for ‘daughter.'” That stopped working it’s magic when I realized someone with shitty parenting judgement has zero authority to announce what’s best for our daughter.
He had the gall to tell YOU how to behave! SMDH!
I know. My attorney highlighted that more than a few times, noting that we were being reasonable and polite and would win the day. And we did.
In closeout, my ex continued to vomit on me in emails, which I handled with Bill Eddy’s BIFF method. So paragraphs and paragraphs of my awfulness, and I’d reply, “I mailed the car titles today. Please turn those around so I can go to the DMV. Hope you’re doing well!”
I truly hit meh when the judge signed off. Nothing he said or did after that ramped me up. My attorney (the younger associate by then) and I laughed it off.
My ex’s father passed away shortly after discovery of the affair. I was going to attend to be there for my daughter. The morning I was scheduled to fly, I got into my car and the battery was dead. The relief I felt was immense. My daughter was an adult and she handled herself without me. Do not feel like you have to attend. If you were close to the father, you can honor him in your own way. Your sons will understand if they know the situation and you should not have to deal with the stress that the event will put on you. It is not worth your health. the best healing is no contact.
That battery really chose its moment.
Cheaters would like us to ignore the elephant in the room and the big pile of poop it left on the floor.
I am no contact with FW except at family events, now mostly grandchildren birthday parties. Then I do not engage her and leave her on the ignore setting. That’s as civil as my boundaries allow.
They chose to invite the elephant so they can deal with it.
I’m with our leader Chump Lady on this. The appropriate response is…none. Which has the benefit of letting him wonder how you’re going to behave.
Couldn’t resist after seeing the Soprano’s series again. To the tune of Dean Martin’s Ritorna-Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpBjgQlT_jA):
Return to meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
And guard your f*cks fiercely
(Waaah oooh)
Cause you don’t owe jack
Or tertiary contact
To that goon
Return to meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
Resist Stockholm syndrome
(Waaah oooh)
Now that you’re out of reach
He’s still trying to breach
Boundaries
Remember how he never said sorry?
And wouldn’t know civil
If it bit his left nut?
Return to meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
Come back to the dark side
(Waaah oooh)
We’ve got cookies and snark
Our tank has zero sharks
And f*cks
Ritorna meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
Lascia perdere nella polvere
(Waah ooh)
Sticazzi, sticazzi, sticazzi, sticazzi
È un verme
FW brought Schmoops to our oldest son’s graduation. My son felt he had no choice. FW told our kids that their mom might freak out at him or Schmoops so they were to be on alert & intervene if needed. I noticed my kids were so nervous that I finally asked wth is up? When they told me, I laughed & said they’re totally not worth my time or the effort. But I was seething inside! It was all to make me look unstable & crazy to justify why he had an affair & left. I didn’t contact FW about it after either. I let my behaviour at grad speak for itself.
I’m going to echo the calls for you to just skip the funeral. Honor him in your own way, but don’t put yourself through that.
My FW is attempting this mindf**k on me too. He has the audacity to judge my insistence of minimal contact (only when absolutely necessary regarding our children) and is conveniently propagating this false equivalency that I am now the one ruining everyone’s lives because I can’t just get over it and play happy co-parents. We’ve all see this over and over again – it’s the chump’s reaction that’s the problem, not what they’re reacting to. Mmmkay.
I think he expected the opposite from me because schmoopie’s husband did the pick me dance for a year and still bends over backwards to make their co-parenting set up as warm and fluffy as possible. I guess my FW assumed I’d just do the same when I found out a year later. Beg him to stay, promise to fix my ‘faults’, do anything I could in an attempt to keep this magnificent stand-up partner and father central to our lives. Ha! he had a very rude awakening.
In his mind, he apologised and accepted that having an 18month affair with his boss was wrong so what more do I want? And anyway, plenty of people have affairs so it’s really not that big a deal. Surely, after finally discovering his deceit, we could all just get along for the sake of the kids and be one big happy blended family (me and my kids and him, schmoopie and her kids, hell, let’s throw in the other chump for good measure). Yeah, devastating betrayal after 24 years together, leading to our 13 year old refusing to see or speak to her own father, the pending reality of me and the kids losing our home and being unable to afford a new one on my own, wishing I could just fast forward the rest of my life and skip to the dying part… sure, FW, let’s all just sit down and have a nice cup of tea.
BTW, I told him to stick his “sorry” up her ar*e because I’m sure she likes that kind of thing. Ahem, clearly wasn’t feeling very tranquil that day or today.