My Wife Wants My Support After the Other Woman Dumped Her

other woman dumped

Her wife is grieving after the Other Woman dumped her and just wants to be friends. Now her cheating wife is suicidal and OP doesn’t know what to do.

***

Dear Chump Lady,

I really need your advice. I’m in a very strange emotional situation, and honestly, I don’t know how to move forward.

I’m in a long-term committed relationship (we’re both women).

This year, my wife told me she was in love with a mutual friend of ours.

I felt betrayal, despair, and a loneliness I’d never experienced before. We talked, but my wife was highly reluctant to end things with the other woman. Her reaction made it painfully clear this wasn’t “just sex” or a passing crush.

I fell apart very quickly. The pain was unbearable. My wife tried to comfort me, but she still wouldn’t end the relationship. Eventually, I realised I simply wouldn’t survive that level of pain. I started preparing for a divorce. It was awful dismantling everything we’d built, but I made the decision to let her go and told her so. That was in mid-November.

But when my wife told the OW that she was now free and they could finally be together properly, the OW suddenly backed out and said she wanted to stay “just friends”. I think she’s terrified of commitment (she’s had three marriages to emotionally distant partners). Before, I was a convenient obstacle; once I stepped aside, she pulled out of the deal.

Since then, my wife has fallen into a deep depression.

She and OW are pretending to be “just friends”, but they still message constantly, and my wife’s moods swing wildly depending on how the OW treats her. She cries every day and talks about suicide. She’s started antidepressants and therapy, but she refuses to go no-contact because she believes there will be “nothing good left in her life” without OW. She ruminates endlessly about their happy memories.

I’ve been supporting her as best I can — making sure she takes her meds, keeping emergency numbers close, trying to keep her safe. She tells me she’s grateful and still loves me, but all her emotional energy is directed at OW. It honestly feels like watching someone caught in an addiction.

I’m exhausted from caring for someone who talks about dying because of unrequited love for someone else. What hurts the most are the sudden moments of tenderness — when my wife hugs me or tells me she never stopped loving me — and then she goes right back to messaging the OW.

I want to talk about our future.

If she won’t go no-contact with OW and genuinely work on our relationship, I plan to move out in January. But I’m scared this will make her depression worse. And at the same time, a tiny part of me still hopes she’ll come to her senses, and I’m afraid of losing that chance.

What do you think? Is it worth holding on? Or is it time to walk away?

Thank you so much for reading,

Luo

***

Dear Luo,

This is me reaching out from the Interwebz to bitch slap you. (With love.)

THERE IS NO FUTURE WITH THIS PERSON.

Not unless you want to be the Great Concession Prize as your wife pines for The Twu Wuv Who Got Away. Constantly on pick me dance patrol as she longs for her BFF. Fuck. That. Shit.

Really, comforting your wife from the affliction of her own stupidity IS NOT YOUR JOB.

How dare she!!!

I am so offended on your behalf. I wish you were one scintilla as pissed off as I am at your cheating wife and her egregious entitlement.

But Tracy, she has a sadz. She’s… suicidal!

I am highly skeptical.

There are a bazillion stories of cheaters threatening to un-alive themselves on this blog. All so chumps go right back into caregiver mode. The timid forest creature is very delicate right now. But don’t take my word for it, read an academic paper from the National Institutes of Health on emotional blackmail and personality disorders. (It’s a hallmark of borderline and NPD.)

She cries every day and talks about suicide.

My advice in this situation is always to call 911. Neither of us are mental health professionals. At the first utterance of un-aliving — get your wife an involuntary emergency psych evaluation. If she’s truly suicidal, she’ll get the immediate help she needs. If she’s trying to manipulate you, she can enjoy 72 hours of lockdown in a paper gown.

My point is:

GET AWAY FROM THIS CLUSTER.

Your wife didn’t give two shits in a basket about your pain. Neither did her affair partner, your purported “friend.”

My wife tried to comfort me, but she still wouldn’t end the relationship.

She DID NOT try to comfort you. She kept pouring salt on your open wounds with her affair. Fuck her very much. Not only did your wife not end her affair — which was devastating you with pain — she centered her SELF-INFLICTED “pain” over yours (THE PAIN SHE CREATED). And! Expects YOU (the wronged party) to comfort HER!

That is so deeply offensive.

I know you love and care for this woman, but she clearly doesn’t care about you. People who love you don’t goad you into humiliating competitions. If she were an ethical person (she is not), she would’ve ended things with you honestly and fairly. Instead, she let YOU do the hard work, because she’s a fucking coward.

And now that’s it’s all blown up in her face, she has the unmitigated gall to think you should attend to her sadz. Fetch some tea and a hot compress.

Leave her to her Twu Wuv.

She and OW are pretending to be “just friends”, but they still message constantly, and my wife’s moods swing wildly depending on how the OW treats her.

Oh yeah. Sounds like a love for the ages. I really want this for her. Game meets game. I think they’re perfect together.

She’s started antidepressants and therapy, but she refuses to go no-contact because she believes there will be “nothing good left in her life” without OW.

She’s insulting you to your face. You built a whole life with this woman… and you count for exactly NOTHING? This reminds me of that Spamalot scene when King Arthur sings “I’m All Alone” as his faithful lackey tries to get his attention.

She ruminates endlessly about their happy memories.

LEAVE HER!

You do NOT have to listen to this crap, okay? YOU MATTER. Your wife is DEVALUING YOU. And she’s not being subtle about it. She and her stupid memories do not matter more than your well-being, understand? Your wife knows exactly what she’s doing — she’s turning the knife and getting a contact high of centrality off your pain.

I’m exhausted from caring for someone who talks about dying because of unrequited love for someone else. What hurts the most are the sudden moments of tenderness — when my wife hugs me or tells me she never stopped loving me — and then she goes right back to messaging the OW.

People who truly love you don’t behave like this. People who don’t love you but are ethical human beings don’t behave like this. Sadists behave like this.

I want to talk about our future.

Stop it. Put down the hopium. There is zero future with this freak.

If she won’t go no-contact with OW and genuinely work on our relationship, I plan to move out in January.

Move out now. Please, for your mental health, sofa surf, do something anything to not be around this. You need NO CONTACT. It’s the fastest path to healing, but instead you’re sticking your head in the mindfuck blender every day.

But I’m scared this will make her depression worse.

Don’t worry. She’s got her happy memories with the Other Woman to comfort her.

And at the same time, a tiny part of me still hopes she’ll come to her senses, and I’m afraid of losing that chance.

What chance is that? To be her concession prize? Third chair chump? She’s not addicted or wayward — she’s hurting you DELIBERATELY. These are all CHOICES she is making. ABUSIVE choices.

Save yourself! Please move out ASAP. She’s using you.

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LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
6 hours ago

Luo,

I’d make two points:

Firstly, that when someone shows you who they are, you need to believe them. Your wife’s behaviour (and particularly the line about “without the OW there will be nothing good in her life”) makes it quite clear that she does not care about you and that you have no future together …. so act on that.

Secondly, that you cannot “save” someone who is not prepared to save themselves. Ultimately, this situation is of your wife’s making and your only responsibility now is to yourself. You can get out, divorce her and build a better life for yourself and without her with a clear conscience. Do not let her manipulate you into setting yourself on fire to keep her warm.

LFTT

Kate
Kate
6 hours ago

What CL said!! Your wife told you that without OW she would have nothing good in her life! She said that OUT LOUD. She’s been explicit about her love and commitment to you – it doesn’t exist.

You deserve a whole world more than that shitshow! PLEASE REMOVE HER FROM YOUR LIFE PERMANENTLY before she destroys you with her abusive behaviour.

ronit67
ronit67
6 hours ago

Omg, did I write this? So many parallels here with my own situation, I’m a year-ish out from the end of my long term relationship (20+ years), in part because my ex fell in love with someone else, and we’re all women as well. Their relationship has been tumultuous at best…my ex spent the first 8ish months after I found out saying she was confused, they broke up at least once in that time (and she too had the audacity to expect me to comfort her!), we tried counselling, we were intimate but we fought all the time, she said so many terrible things to me and treated me like garbage, it was all very horrible. I finally gave up just over a year ago, and I have been feeling so. much. better.

Things still aren’t the best – we’re still living together, but hoping to sell the house in the spring. My ex is still with her AP, but their relationship continues to be toxic as hell. She still tries sometimes to confide in me, to seek out support, and has even tried to reconcile a few times as well! I have managed to “grey rock” as much as I can within my own limitations, and it’s been helpful. I’d have to have the IQ of a potato to take her back at this point. She SUCKS.

Truly, CL is right – they deserve each other. My ex admits she is really only with her AP because she doesn’t want to be alone! Because I won’t take her back, she feels that is her only option. Honestly, how lame is that? I have been enjoying been on my own, and rediscovering/reinventing who I am and what I want in my life, and I am comfortable enough with myself to not plunge into anything serious just because I don’t want to be alone with the thoughts in my own head! I’ve been dating, but only very very casually, and it’s been so much fun. Aside from the shit show that is having to live with my ex, my life is already improving so much since I came to my senses.

PrincipledLife
PrincipledLife
2 hours ago
Reply to  ronit67

Hi Ronit67, this is IQofaPotato: Your situation reminded me of when my STBX came to me to confide his great dilemna: as a sex addict his therapist advised him not to look at women he was attracted to for more then a second, and then to look away. But that morning, tragically, there was a beautiful woman to his left, another beautiful woman to his right, and another beautiful woman right in front of him. So he turned around and…you guessed it, there was ANOTHER beautful woman behind him. He expected me, the woman he’d sexually negelected, in around our 30th month of no sex, to comfort and commiserate with him.

OH HELL NO!!!

Luo, this is weaponized “truth.” Telling the “truth” in order to hurt and humiliate you. Here’s a sad realization from me, Mrs. Potato Head: your wife likes to hurt you. She enjoys it and gets off on it. Run! Put down that can of spackle and Run as fast as you can! People like this are dangerous. Don’t wait for the death threats like I did.

Last edited 2 hours ago by PrincipledLife
OHFFS
OHFFS
6 hours ago
Reply to  ronit67

“My ex admits she is really only with her AP because she doesn’t want to be alone!”

Yep, FWs can’t be alone. When they are left alone with their thoughts the emptiness of their selfish, shallow existence becomes apparent and it’s unbearable.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
5 hours ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Yup. They really can’t be alone. My FW was taken by surprise when OW left him. He didn’t have a backup plan. He tried to get me back (LOL). When that didn’t work, he killed himself. He couldn’t be alone with his own thoughts and he spiraled into the dark.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
45 minutes ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

As you have illustrated, that’s the hard reality: that the abuser threatening suicide might eventually shift from manipulative bluff to action.

Worse, there’s the old adage that when it comes to suicidal abusers, aggression turned inward could turn outward in a flash. Statistically, their first targets are usually family members.

I think you might have dodged a literal bullet and if taking himself out was what saved you, it’s definitely the preferable option.

ronit67
ronit67
6 hours ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Totally. I mean, on one hand, I kinda get it – I wouldn’t want to be alone in her head either, seems like a shit-ass place lol

On the other hand, it’s frickin’ sad.

Celene
Celene
6 hours ago

Luo, I was in the same boat as you four years ago with my cheating ex and his “being suicidal” because his Howorker decided to take a step back from their emotional affair. Don’t be like me who stuck around for six months hoping their cheating ex would get his shit together. My ex threatened suicide if I divorced him before he was ready for the marriage to end, yet he would not acknowledge my pain or leave the other woman. Your wife -like my ex- fired you from the role of caregiver and partner the moment they stepped out and kept the other woman first. Don’t stay just because of their mental health. They have to take care of that on their own. I’ve been divorced now for two years. My ex is still alive – and still working with his Howoker. If I had stayed for my ex’s mental health that would have been four years wasted instead of six months on trying to save someone who had no real care for me.

Imtired
Imtired
6 hours ago

So messed up. I agree you need to move out ASAP and put some distance and perspective to it. Once you are out of it you can reflect and hopefully become resolute in moving on. Thats why CL champions no contact. Its difficult not to stay wrapped up in the drama when you are in contact. These people are master manipulators as you experienced from her crying wolf with self harm. Bunch of BS and if she did, it would be doing you a favor. I know thats harsh but shes your anti- friend.

Elizabeth Lee
Elizabeth Lee
6 hours ago

Dear Luo, she ENJOYS hurting you. Here you are dancing attendance on her “pain” and she gets to openly insult you. This is not a relationship–it’s a hostage situation. You are experiencing Stockholm Syndrome. In a twisted way she’s having the time of her life. She’s got two women giving her constant attention. Stop It!

The next time she says she’s going to unalive herself call emergency services and send her off for professional care.

Take that time to breathe and figure out your next steps. You need to move out (or kick her out) and file for divorce.

You are in an abusive relationship. I know you see yourself as her caregiver, but actually she is abusing you. You are a victim of domestic violence. I keep repeating that because it took me a long time to realize that I was also a victim of domestic violence. This emotional abuse that she is heaping on you is a form of domestic violence. You need to run away like your house is on fire.

In this moment YOU are the one whose pain matters the most. You have been faithful in the relationship and she is just another trashy cheater. My ex and the other woman didn’t last long enough for the divorce to be final. It’s a thing that happens. It’s not your job to fix her problems. You did nothing wrong and she is sad because her poor choices came back to bite her in the butt.

There is a better life out there waiting for you. I promise the pain ends and you will be happy again someday.

Now kick this piece of trash to the curb where she belongs. She’ll be okay and you’ll be better off.

dracaena
dracaena
3 hours ago
Reply to  Elizabeth Lee

This, and I would like to add that in domestic violence threat assessments, it’s not a good sign when the abusive person threatens suicide.

MollyWobbles
MollyWobbles
5 hours ago
Reply to  Elizabeth Lee

I was going to say the same thing. The OP is being abused. This is extremely damaging emotional abuse that will likely take a long time to recover from. My emotional abuse resulted in dissociative amnesia. I now have trouble remembering things almost immediately after they happen. I have to write everything down in a journal in order to remember my life! I wasn’t like this until after Dday and the resulting subsequent Ddays and abuses during our wreckconciliation process. Thankfully I smartened up and GTFO!

OutButNotDown
OutButNotDown
6 hours ago
Reply to  Elizabeth Lee

Exactly this! It takes time to let the “you’re being abused” message sink in. Please be far away from her while you let it sink in. What she is doing is PURE MANIPULATION.

Listen to CL and the other commenters for your own wellbeing.

FYI_
FYI_
6 hours ago

When she told you she was in love with this mutual friend, did she have a plan? I guess it was to move out? Or were you expected to move out? She can revert to whichever of those she had in her head, because y’all continuing to live together is off the table.

She betrayed you. As we often say here, it’s like comforting the arsonist who burned down your house. NO! Go no contact as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. Get OUT of the blast zone.

OHFFS
OHFFS
6 hours ago

Three words for this FW; borderline personality disorder.

Luo, please don’t wait until January if at all possible. Move out now. Or better yet, tell her she has to move out. She’s weaponizing her feelings for another woman to manipulate you into being her emotional support human. Except to fuckwits like her, you are barely human. You’re more like an emotional support teddy bear. Teddy bears don’t have feelings, so FWs can tell them how much they love, miss and prefer another bear and that they have nothing without that other bear, even as they cling to the rejected bear.

Most of the time FW suicide threats are manipulation to get you to do the caregiving and not leave. But even if she is suicidal, it’s not your problem anymore. She fired you from the job of giving a damn what happens to her when she chose another woman over you and sadistically threw it in your face, over and over. I second CL’s motion that if she threatens suicide because you are leaving her, call 911. I suspect that even saying you will call will be enough to shut her up. If, after you have parted and gone no contact (do it soonest!) she turns out to be serious, it would not be on you. You must stop being re-traumatized on a daily basis by this woman for the sake of your own mental health. Please remember that you matter. It’s time to find your anger and to put yourself first, not prioritize and give succor to somebody who treats you so cruelly. Her behaviour is an outrage against human decency. Go NC ASAP and let her sink into her own slime and if she drowns, that’s on her because she is no longer your responsibility. I predict she will just find a new chump and the “depression” will be miraculously cured. Give yourself the greatest holiday present ever and get out of this chamber of mindfuck horrors.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
5 hours ago

My FW called me looking for sympathy, too, saying how he was “all alone” and “had no one”. He didn’t actually admit that OW had left him (I figured that out on my own, and put together such a good case for my hypothesis that my attorney’s paralegal told me that I would make a great PI). I did get confirmation later, when my attorney asked point blank in a meeting with the magistrate. He had gotten too confident that OW was locked down (they’d just signed a lease on a house together) and dropped the mask. She ran like hell.

Some manipulative people threaten suicide for attention. My FW had done this a few times throughout our relationship. But he actually did commit suicide in despair a few months after OW left. He realized she wasn’t coming back, and his attempts to hoover me hadn’t worked either (he did try, but by then I was so done with him). He didn’t say a word to me about it. And apparently (from his very long suicide note), he had made twelve previous attempts over four months. At first, I did feel some guilt about it (I should have seen the signs, I could have done something to prevent it, blah blah blah), but eventually I realized that it had nothing whatsoever to do with me. My therapist told me that you can’t save a suicidal person who doesn’t want to be saved. Even FW’s mother told me (when I said I was sorry that I didn’t get to him in time) told me it wasn’t my fault. She said “we’ve been trying to save him since he was a teenager” (FW had made an attempt at 17, but his girlfriend at the time got an ambulance to him in time). If someone is determined, there’s not alway anything you can do.

Regardless of whether your wife is serious or just trying to get your sympathy, it’s no longer your responsibility. It’s not healthy either way. The next time she makes a threat, call 911 and get her in a 72 hour psych hold. Then you’re absolved. If it was a legitimate threat, you’ve prevented it (for now). And if it was just for attention, she’ll probably think twice before doing that again. Move forward with your divorce. Your wife uses people. She doesn’t love you, you’re just convenient at the moment and she doesn’t want to be alone.

FYI_
FYI_
5 hours ago

Heard a great phrase today — “revoke your energy.”
Meaning … someone behaves this horribly? You revoke your energy from that situation. Pull waaayyyyy back, like to-another-state-distance back.

unluckyseven
unluckyseven
3 hours ago

From one LGBT chump to another:
“There is zero future with this freak” is spot-on.

I completely understand your reluctance to bail. I think sunk cost fallacy can be a lot stronger in lesbian relationships, because the dating pool is so small.

It’s devastating to feel like you overcame these amazingly slim odds to be together, only to have your partner throw it all away. Unfortunately, she did, and you need to run as fast as you can. This is not a safe person and she’s putting you through the emotional wringer. Run run run.

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
3 hours ago

(it would seem that my Devil Trigger has been pulled. What are y’all snackin’ on?)

Mental Health Professional here!

If you are living in the US (and parts of Canada and Mexico I think?) Have her call 988. It’s a suicide help line that runs 24 hours in case she starts to get low.

I am also going to strongly recommend you look up mental health crisis services in your area. Some areas have dedicated crisis centers and services that are able to provide diversionary care without going the involuntary commitment route in some cases, or else handle the commitment process for you (which is a great big pain in the ass and for good reason.)

Else you may wish to familiarize yourself with whichever hospital local to you handles those commitments. It’s typically a 72 hour process of evaluation where they will look at more(if the commitment even takes-see below.) This is one of those times where I wish we had private messaging here-I’d be happy to help you figure all of that out. If nothing else, the hospital time will be good for you to pack your things and start to switch accounts over to her.

UnAliving (thanks Youtube!) is one of those things like chest pains-as a mental health professional it’s sort of like hearing the phrase “chest pains”-certain protocols have to be followed whether or not we think they are serious. Without knowing the person it’s hard to say how serious she is. Jeff the Mental Health Professional has to take that kind of thing very seriously.

Jeff the Chump? Much hotter take.

She went from “twu wuv” to “wants to die” within like a week?

Yeah no.

Mayhap she should have talked that out with schmoopie before making life altering decisions. But there is a reason we call them Fuckwits.

She has literally fucked around and found out. Decisions have consequences. She gambled her safety and security and her love and she lost.

Let me ask some difficult questions here.

What seems more uncomfortable to you: “starting over”, or being this person’s spousal appliance?

How OK are you being seen as a caregiver, an option, and silver medal to somebody that betrayed you and will likely only do it again?

How OK are you with watching the person you love give YOUR love to somebody that does not actually love her back?

Let’s take the romance and the emotion out of the equation, shall we?

She betrayed you. She took the promise that you two shared and she broke it with no legitimate concern for the consequences of that-this including your own broken heart. By your own admission, she SAYS that she still loves you but pines openly for somebody else-this to the point where she will literally die without them in her life in her own words. She wants you around to care for her, but is not at all concerned about YOUR pain and YOUR boundaries, just that YOU keep taking care of her.

I think she is getting off pretty light if you are letting her keep the house and are divorcing her.

Frankly it sounds like SHE is the one that should go. She cheated and wanted a life with schmoopie.

She does not deserve you. You deserve to respect yourself better.

You are better than a spousal appliance. You are better than being second place. You are better than watching your love being given away and having to live off of guilt and table scraps.

Leave. Leave and give the love she takes for granted to yourself for once.

Your promises and pacts with her ended at the betrayal. You have been taken for granted. She has been using you and will continue to do so as long as you let her. Her word is worth nothing. She cheated before and will do it again. You are not responsible for HER wellbeing. You are responsible for yours. If she can’t survive without you taking care of her, she is an adult, and that says a lot more about her than it does about you. That is on her. It was never your job to save her from her bad decisions.

She decided that she was no longer your problem when she ran into somebody else’s arms. It is not your concern that she fell on her ass in so doing. Continuing to take responsibility for her means she will never take it for herself.

Do you want to keep living half a life?

You need to worry about YOU. Because she clearly isn’t.

She is going to continue to hurt you and it is going to get a lot worse if you stay.

Quite frankly, I am a lot more concerned about your wellbeing than hers right now. Because I’ve been there, and my friend? It nearly killed me. In fact, sober in the light of day right now? It kind of did. I live for me now. Much as I still occasionally miss that idiot sometimes (particularly this time of year), I am so much better off that she is gone.

You used the phrase “dismantling what we built together.” I am going to guess what you are about to learn-you probably did most of the building and maintaining-she apparently had the free time to run off and betray you-I don’t know where adults find the time to be very honest. That tells me that when you start over on your terms that you already know what you are doing and in fact have the pieces you took apart to build something better. Trust me on this one-when your head clears you will be glad you did it.

There are safeguards in place to make sure that she will not…UnAlive(great song by my muse, btw.) At least in the US, that sort of thing makes you vulnerable to involuntary mental health commitment (read: you are not allowed to legally make that decision!) If she does, I am very sorry to say this-she was going to do it anyway(I don’t think she is though). She is the master of her own fate, as are you for yours. Nobody made her cheat. Nobody made her fall in love with somebody else or told her that her heart is big enough for “more”. Nobody made her use and abuse you (yes, that is what she did to you…did I mention you should probably look at some therapy for YOU, too?) Nobody will make her…”opt out” as we say around the office. Those are adult choices that she made that have nothing to do with you.

You don’t need two degrees and coming up on 20 years of experience to know these things (but it also doesn’t hurt 😉 )

If she does find a way to die, that has nothing to do with you. She is not your responsibility anymore. If she didn’t learn any resilience or coping from you, that is again on her. Honestly though? My guess is she wants to keep you trapped as caregiver so she can go and be impulsive elsewhere consequence free (hence “Spousal Appliance”.)

We Are Here for You!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 hours ago

Dear Luo,

I totally agree with CL and others that cutting and running is the only safe strategy to save yourself from this emotionally dangerous individual because they will ultimately try to displace all their negative emotions onto you.

In other words, the way she’s going to “cure” herself of suicidality is by making you suicidal. The way she’s going to shift out of her current nihilism and pessimism is by making you nihilistic and hopeless. The way she’s going to heal the wounds to her self esteem is by killing yours. And when that process is complete, she will cheerfully leave you where you fell in a bleeding heap. Because that’s how narcissist-vampires roll. In DV advocacy circles, that process is sometimes called “perspecticide” whereby an abuser destroys the world views, senses of self and faith in humanity in their victims and then “infects” their victims with the abuser’s own core toxic sense of self, world view, etc.

As for the particulars of “why” this abusive individual is like that, you can figure that out once you’ve been safely out of missile range long enough to feel stable again because the danger now is that trying to figure out and “untangle the skein” of your hopefully soon-to-be-ex will be an attempt to “fix” them. It would feed deadly hopium and keep you stuck.

But, if it satisfies some skein-untangling bug you have, below is my personal wonky dissection of abuse and abusers, who, in my opinion, are pretty much all the same minus a few minor differences. For instance, your story seems particularly heartbreaking because of the added betrayal that you’re both women and members of a marginalized group so it’s especially shocking that she subjected you to what many perceive as a particularly patriarchal abuse.

As a woman and a feminist, I can somewhat relate to the shock because of my added sense of betrayal when I’ve been stabbed in the back by other women. Though in a way it’s kind of silly to think bulls shouldn’t gore you because you’re a vegan, I think it’s typical to feel outraged that someone who should “know better” would abuse in the same way whole countries tend to reserve greater punishments for traitors than they do for enemy combatants. But, again, all abusers are the same in the way they think and behave and what drives them and the fact that, statistically, they don’t change.

I have to warn that my skein only untangles in the “run screaming” direction because, according to forensic research, at its furthest logical extremes, the abusive personality construct is found in domestic murderers and serial killers and basically all genocidal dictators, none of which are exactly known for their capacity to turn over new leaves.

As for the question of how and why abusive narcissists can presto-chango shift their allegiance to a new idol and completely erase or even sadistically destroy people they formerly swore undying love to, I think it’s a learned “skill.” Bear with my sprawling take on it but I promise at least a little bit of relevance by the end.

Reading this (and especially watching the Spamalot clip– thanks to CL for that) really increased my impression that narcissists/borderlines (“narcolines”? “Bordercists”?) are likely created by being raised with “hierarchical” values of some kind. For what it’s worth, I kind of cobbled this together to explain to myself why the “patriarchal” theory for domestic abuse– though it gets a lot right– is really just the most common expression (and probable evolutionary root) of a generalized us vs. them/black and white view of humanity that underlies all abuse and injustice.

And because I believe that this “hierarchical” construct is the root of all abuse, I think most people raised with this construct would likely also be raised with direct abuse and/or witnessing traumatic abuse of others. Either way, I think these types are typically scarred and damaged on top of being invested in a toxic hierarchical belief system.

As a side note, some people swear narcissism and particularly psychopathy have genetic roots and will argue that this is why it’s unsafe to believe these types can change or have any sympathy for them. But I don’t really buy genetic criminality or “low empathy genes” theories (too eugenic for my taste, plus the science behind these theories is dodgy). For one, I don’t think genetic theories are even necessary to argue that some behaviors and beliefs are unfixable. I personally have no problem feeling sorry for the traumatized, badly raised kids that abusers once were while feeling nothing for the dangerous adults they become precisely because not all traumatized children grow up to become abusers. Some go starkly in the other direction so there’s a matter of choice here. But I think the key to the “unfixability” of abusive personalities is inculcation where, from young ages, people raised with hierarchical beliefs were incited to act on this view and commit harm to those designated as somehow “inferior.” Eventually people like this end up with too big a mountain of victims in their wakes to ever face the shame of it and cross back over to truly redeem themselves. If you dig into their pasts, you’ll always find the trail of corpses.

But enough with the nature/nurture psychobabble. I think sometimes this “hierarchical” construct can be harder to detect in people who are themselves members of marginalized groups because being “hierarchical” (a bigot by any other name) is more ironic in “underdogs.” Being a woman, I think it’s true that people from marginalized groups have a slightly greater chance of developing egalitarian values, but people are people and it’s not necessarily the case. I find this just means that, when someone from an underdog group internalizes hierarchical views of human worth, they have to be more gymnastic in rationalizing and masking their bigotry and work harder to remain blind to how deeply they may have internalized dominant paradigm values even when the latter views condemn their own identity.

Malcolm X would have analogized the above to a “house slave” mentality and feminists call it “internalized sexism.” But I think if you boil it down to brass tacks, this mentality is really based on the irrational belief that some humans are inherently better than others and some are worse for whatever fabricated reasons. Because abusive personalities tend to all be the same and unoriginal, they also tend to operate on a stock market mentality of human value so that their biases are typically fueled by values drawn from dominant paradigm (so that, for example, abusive women almost always internalize patriarchal sexism in some way or other, even if its in the abstract sense that “might makes right” or “nurturing values are synonymous with incompetence,” etc.). But it’s all basically the “tribalism” that philosopher Karl Popper warns about in The Open Society and Its Enemies (if anyone is interested in the most granular analysis of it ever written and also the most thorough “macro” application of how this manifests politically).

It makes even more sense that narcissism could stem from hierarchical ideology if you think about so-called “splitting” in narcissism and borderline– the tendency to split other people into “all good” or “all bad” categories with little in between or to shift radically from idealization to contempt. It’s pretty much the same principle as Manichaeism, a modern analogy for “black and white” thinking based on a religion founded in third century Persia which divided the world into extremes of good/evil, light/dark and nothing in between.

In that way, narcissism might be more akin to a cult-like religion than a psychiatric condition (interesting that, in reality, narcissists are reportedly statistically more likely to be drawn to actual cults) but it’s not necessarily a spiritual cultishness since there are such things as existential cults. Basically all cults are based on the idea that some humans (mostly self-designated gurus and leaders) are inherently superior to others and make the false promise of conferring a bit of this transcendence– or at least offering an escape from the punishments reserved for the “inferior”– to those who blindly follow.

And this is exactly what narcissists are seeking: to be exempted from life’s pains and dangers (maybe even death itself) on the basis of sustaining an exaggerated sense of transcendence and superiority.

I don’t think it matters what the guiding “ism” is in a hierarchical construct– racism, sexism, heterosexism, religiocentrism, nationalism, classism, ableism, cultural/educational elitist or all the above. The deciding factor is raising children with the tribalistic view that some human beings inherently don’t count as much as others because this belief polishes up an unfortunately capacity to “erase” select others from consciousness (i.e., Arthur monarchic belief he’s alone while another human being is standing right next to him) or worse, to commit atrocities against certain people without qualms. I think that, once internalized and once a child has been inculcated into harming others that are viewed as inferior, that “erasing” mechanism can eventually be extended to any group or individual at will, including intimate partners.

In essence, the “mechanism” is the selective ability to turn empathy on and off which is psychopathy in a nutshell. Apparently even serial killers engage in a learned type of mental gymnastics in order to rationalize their heinous crimes. The rationalization would not be necessary in the case there individuals had zero capacity for empathy or sense of moral stigma. What it suggests is that the mental trick (called “neutralization” in forensic psychology) toggles the switch.

But the mechanism usually doesn’t stop at simply assigning lesser status to a target group or individual. “Manichean” types don’t merely subtract all positive human qualities and values from the scapegoat or scapegoat group without removing all negatives from some designated strata and also adding transcendent, magical qualities to the latter. Political analysts and sociologists call this “externalization of evil”, the principle behind the scapegoat ritual of casting all of a tribe’s evil onto some poor goat and punishing the goat as if this would cleanse the tribe of sin. In any case, I think this might explain why every narcissist I’ve ever encountered is also prone to periodically becoming a worshipful, groveling weirdo when they encounter an even bigger narc-shark than themselves.

This isn’t to suggest that everyone who gets chumped by an abuser was necessarily seeking out a “bigger shark” or “drawn to abuse” for reasons I’ll get into in a bit. But on the issue of adults having juvenile romantic crushes, it really stands out to be because I think the last time I had some gaga, idealizing crush was in seventh grade and even then I had the sense to be embarrassed by it. I knew by age 11 that limerence isn’t real love. But every narcissist I’ve encountered, no matter how old, will periodically go fanatically belly up to some perceived idol whether this is a public figure or some romantic crush.

Sometimes “narcomanicheans” or whatever you want to call them project magical, transcendent qualities on someone who isn’t a shark but they’ll usually soon realize their mistake because only a bigger narcissist would be able to subject the groveling narc to proper Pavlovian conditioning of intermittent rewards/punishments or abuse/lovebombing.

To wrap it up, you could probably get your STBX back and “in wuv” with you– at least for a while– if you’re prepared to become a monster yourself. But that would be the most tragic outcome of being bitten by this abuser-vampire– basically turning into one. From the sound of it, you’d probably have to play with your home lobotomy kit and surgically remove your own soul to turn yourself into this, otherwise forget it.

That’s because ‘tribal/Manichean/narcy” people like this can’t love in the higher human, reciprocal and enduring sense. They can only kiss up and slap down and, because of this, will almost mistake expressions of real love from others as a mark of inferior status.
In essence, your STBX projects her own idol worship tendencies onto you and assumes the love you show is not real or valuable but simply recognition that she’s of a higher caste.

Which probably comes as a huge surprise because I’m also sure your STBX mirrored the hell out of your ethical values and political beliefs when she first met you. This is why chumps getting chumped is fundamentally not the same as a narcissist putting themselves in thrall to a more dangerous narcissist. Like a lot of chumps, you might have been chosen deliberately by a FW as a departure from their normal pattern of hooking up with carbon copies of their dysfunctional FOO members. This is because abusive narcissists are invariably miserable people down deep since it’s a crappy formula for life. Abusers may even hope that a healthy partner might magically change them for the better so the mirroring and mask wearing aren’t always just a form of deliberate conning but sometimes an attempt to “fake it till they make it.” They’re trying on your way of being like a hermit crab finding a new shell. But it’s likely that, when your STBX found that proximity to you didn’t magically transform her charred out soul and, worse, made her feel like a creep in comparison to your basic fair nature, she ripped you off the pedestal she’d put you and and went back to the kind of devil she knows– some carbon copy of whatever abuser-vampire originaly bit her and turned her into a walking abortion in the first place.

You could try to explain all the above to this STBX or some explanation that’s more tailored to her particular fuckedupedness and, though she might pretend to be moved and inspired to fix what’s broken in herself, it won’t last because you’re likely not the only person she’s harmed in her life. Again, eventually the guilt and shame make it impossible for abusers to sustain any change since it would require facing that many of the things they’ve done are wrong and their past victims are actual humans who matter.

Secondly, there’s the problem of all sadists being secret masochists on the flip-side and the fact they all engage in “compulsive reenactment” where they forever chase the copies of whomever abused them in childhood in the hopes of things finally working out “better.”

Thirdly, sadism might be akin to OCD or a superstitious “rite” in the sense that sadists do cruel things in order to feel “safe” from the constant fear of being victimized. Causing pain and fear in others could be likened to genuflecting to ward off evil spirits or flipping a light switch on and off 20 times before stepping outside to ward of generalized misfortune. This might be because, in many abusive families, there are only perpetrators and victims and nothing in between so the only way to avoid being victimized is to commit harm.

This is all a long way of saying save yourself. It’s also a suggestion that you develop an alternative type of snobbery but just regarding character and capacity for real love. The director of the DV advocacy network I worked for in college used to say, “Harmlessness is the only glamour.” She didn’t mean harmless as in “weak” or “passive” but in terms of being incapable of harming the harmless (or standing passively by as the harmless are harmed). It was her way of upending the usual human hierarchies based on might and advantage.