Sing Like a Bird?

So my husband posited this theory yesterday and suggested I write about it. (With the hope, of course, that we prove his theory…) He believes the difference between the Stuck and the Unstuck is emotional sloppiness. He posits that blabbing to everyone about what happened is essential to field marshaling and getting yourself the hell away from cheaters. The folks who stay stuck, in his opinion, are the folks who keep the secrets. Who maintain the image. Who keep things under wraps.

I think he’s on to something.

He’s a verbal gerbil and he got unstuck very quickly. Ten entire days of false reconciliation (other affair partners emerged) and he filed and separated. He was immediately on infidelity boards, found his own therapist, chucked the marriage counseling and got divorced in under four months. (God bless Texas and its 60-day divorce laws.)

He told his parents, his kids, his friends, his siblings, a few neighbors, his realtor (who took him to feed cattle to keep his mind off it). He was the walking wounded, and he didn’t hide it.

Me, I wasn’t as much of a quick study as he was. But I did have a big mouth. I also told everyone, and got on infidelity boards, and was incredibly emotionally sloppy. On my D-Day (the first), we were having a new furnace installed, and I had to pay the bill. As I wrote the check for $8,000 (out of my account, of course), I burst into tears and told the steamfitter what happened. He looked stunned and told me he’d “hold me up to Jesus” and pray for me. Which was very nice of him in a Bible-thumping, Lancaster County kind of way.

The upshot of telling everyone, is that I couldn’t really front that my life wasn’t falling apart. Everyone knew it was a dismal wreck. And the brave people in my life bitchslapped me into lucidity when I did stupid shit like take him back. Don’t get me wrong, I still tried to maintain I had it all under control (unicorn chump!) — but they knew the ugly details.

And looking back, I think I told people the ugly details because at some level I wanted them to keep me accountable, to be my reality check. I knew I had a hopium problem.

I told the therapist when he threatened to kill me. I told the people at county court. I told my appointed lawyer at Mid-Penn Legal Services.

And yet, I still didn’t believe myself, that this was my life, that this was truly happening to me. That the wedding I celebrated 6 months earlier, the new life I had bought into so completely, the love I felt, the dreams I had planned were crashing down like a burning Zeppelin.

Every person who knew, who reacted in horror and compassion, was a guide post on my way out of that darkness.

Contrast this with the Stuck. If you don’t tell the secrets, who can unburden you? Who is going to look at YOU with horror and compassion? Who will give you those reality checks? Who will light your way?

If you maintain their image and never speak of what they did to you, and how it felt, and what the repercussions were — how will you, or anyone else, ever see who they really are?

If instead of emotional sloppiness, you have super powers of reserve, how will you know this loss is real? When you look at the news, when someone learns of a death, those people collapse in grief. They wail. They sob. No one judges them for it. This is what grief looks like. If you keep it under wraps, are you telling yourself and others that It Wasn’t Really That Bad?

Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe you don’t feel the betrayal that deeply. But if you do, then what? Does it eat at your guts? Make you sick? Is it like that Langston Hughes poem?

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up 
like a raisin in the sun? 
Or fester like a sore– 
And then run? 
Does it stink like rotten meat? 
Or crust and sugar over– 
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags 
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
 Let your chump flag fly, people. TELL.

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nicolette14
nicolette14
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Oh Tracey, that’s so true! I kept my mouth shut for 3 years, 3 long fucking years, I didn’t tell anyone and suffered silently to keep a front, while I had insomnia, slept maybe 2-3 hours in 48 hours, lost weight that I was below 0, in junior size and was barely able to function. Kept my mouth shut, didn’t tell anyone what he did/was doing to me and that kept me stuck in that hell for 3 long years! When I finally had enough that’s when I started to share what he was doing and he wasn’t a good guy as everyone thought, that included besides cheating, the lying and burdening me financially. After that I started to detach from him emotionally, saw him for who he really was then I went in NC. If I knew back then what I know now, I would’ve told everyone and not suffer for 3 years without sleep and the feeling of that horrible feeling, being betrayed! Your hubby and you are right, that’s got me unstuck from everything! Thank you once more for your wisdom from bottom of my heart. Thank you!!

AC_
AC_
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I agree completely. The first time I found out about cheating, I kept it to myself, kept trying to fix it, got back together with him, etc.

The second time, I told everyone (except my Dad): my brother, my friends, anyone who would listen really. The whole point is that I didn’t trust myself and needed people to reign me in. Telling people made it real. There were times I regretted telling people, those days were I thought there could be reconciliation, I thought how could I get back together with him if I have already told everyone?

But in the end, telling people was what saved me. Was what made me get unstuck. Keeping the secret is deluding yourself.

murielschnierow
murielschnierow
10 years ago

Hi you have a point. i was so young when Art Ortenberg left me in that way that i did not speak of it so Art tells his side of it and with the money that is USA Power. i have allowed him to “define” me and the first time anyone asked me what happened is on this blog. i act, i am strict ,but always private and that is what is wrong now .my son and daughter manipulate me with their” wounds ” as if i don’t have any, this “lovely” retirement building has not supported me, and my side is only on your blog. in my case money was always the problem.My son and daughter “need” the money he will leave altho if i had a father like that i would scrub floors before i would take a cent. this last obit was an insult,my son published the book of tribute ,is in NY ,did not stop the last obit either and tells me to stay out of it. i am being “chumped” by my son and daughter and really did not pay enough attention, this morning got lost in Bach, and am “allowing” shunning or bullying or whatever you call it, because i am absent minded and would rather play bach. i should write book but i think” Liz ” is gone . i kicked art out,didnt look back, but really had no legal rights to stop his inexcusable publicity, 50 years later.Art is a sociopath big time. i never got stuck,as these people did, but denial is understandable, we dont want to think people are evil but they are. thank you chump lady and all of you the only support i have ever heard since my husband died.

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
10 years ago

Yes, my precious Muriel…..There are many evil ones out there. Remember, though, the love you have found here that reaffirms not everyone is evil….just some. So glad that ChumpNation has provided the support you deserve!!!

Do you remember your Bible history? Think back to what King David did….his adultery with Bath’sheba. Look at this passage: 2 Sam 12:7-13 The principle here is that what is done in secret will be / should be exposed in full glaring light for ALL to see! See what? The filth, horror and disgustingness of adultery! THAT is our Creator’s standards. God was the one who decreed this consequence of King David’s adultery.

Shout it from the roof tops……

Good to hear from you Muriel….Forge on, friend…..

Tara
Tara
10 years ago
Reply to  ForgeOn!

Muriel, you are a Chump Lady Celebrity. Glad you posted! Hugs!

Nord
Nord
10 years ago

I think you need to get tough with your kids, no matter their age. Tell them straight the bullshit you went through – and if you can’t do it in person then write it down, carefully and without editorialising about their father. Tell how this impacted YOU, how your life changed, what you went through. They may not care but at least you’ll have it out there in a way that they can’t ignore.

I’m careful about what I say to the kids and thankfully my kids are smart cookies. One of them says to me, ‘I know you can’t say what a dick you think dad is but I get it, don’t worry’. This would be after their father nearly succeeded in leaving us completely broke without a roof over our collective heads.

There’s a reason ‘honesty is the best policy’ is a cliché. Just the facts, ma’am, and then let the chips fall.

MehComing
MehComing
10 years ago

You’re husband may in fact be on to something. I fronted and didn’t tell initially. As I learned more about the depth of his betrayal, I could no longer maintain the facade. Took me 5 months to go NC. Looking back, it’s clear now that I was “protecting” him (and our relationship) from the critique and judgements of others because I was hooked on hopium. If I told, then when he came to his senses (haha…glad he never did), I wouldn’t be able to justify “working things out.”

MehComing
MehComing
10 years ago
Reply to  MehComing

Your*

Denise
Denise
10 years ago

I totally agree with your husband. Once I got past feeling ashamed, which I now know was foolish. I told everyone I could think of!

KT
KT
10 years ago

I think it also has a lot to do with how much you trust people and your overall support network. I’m not the most trusting person in the world and my husband has pretty well exacerbated that. Also, I come from a family that wouldn’t be very supportive if I left. “You’re leaving with two small children (one somewhat autistic), you have tons of student debt with no way to pay it, and you’re going to be living in a homeless shelter… I’m sure you’ll figure it out.” Yeah, not very helpful and not something I can handle hearing without becoming a basket case, honestly. I put one foot in front of the other. I work. I got to graduate school. I come home and take care of the kids. One. Step. At. A. Time. Because that’s all my mind will absorb and the job/school/kids don’t take care of themselves.

For those who do have a better support network, your advice is spot on. For the rest of us, we have to start building ourselves up as best we can.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  KT

So sorry you didn’t start out with that support network, but good for you that you are going step by step to get where you want to be.

But that suggests that those of us who have influence over young women approaching marriage or newly marriage should make sure they develop and nurture a support network as well as their capacity to earn a living, not just because they might get chumped but because we are all mortal and young women can’t take for granted that a partner will live out a full life. My cousin was widowed with three children under six; her mother relocated and went back to work to help her raise her kids.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

*newly married

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  KT

You know, your point about supportive people around you is good–because there are cake-eaters out there who begin their snacking and feasting once they have moved the chump away from their network. Then, who can the chump talk to?

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago

I’m not much good at ‘acting’. I tried in high-school (drama), but couldn’t handle bit roles.

I’m not much better about ‘acting’ in real life. The first round (DDAY1), I kept things to myself much better like it was my shame to bear or something, but that was part of a weird, codependent mindset I sort of developed over the course of that marriage.

DDAY2 was easier. It was still traumatic, but resolution was immediate and firm. I simply told myself I had no choice, or rather… the choice was to go on living that way and going through trauma over and over or move on. So… yeah, I pretty much immediately told everybody what was happening, didn’t try to put a gloss on it, and that was that.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

First dday saw me only confiding in a few close friends and begging them to keep it quiet as I ‘wanted to work out the marriage’ (despite telling him to leave if he wanted). Second dday? I went nuts and told everyone who would listen, including several realtors who were showing me places to live, the guy who came to literally fix the kitchen sink (he was also going through a divorce) and random anyone who asked me anything remotely connected with the story. I went nuclear and am quite glad I did.

I do think, though, that this is why ex is such a dick to me – I really believe he thought he could have ‘a break’ and then saunter back and I’d be there. But I made sure that wouldn’t and couldn’t happen and now he is stuck in this exciting and wonderful and fun new life he wanted so badly! Except it’s more boring and constricting than his life with me for several reasons: I am not boring or constricting, and he lost all his history with me. So he’s angry. I figure he’ll be angry for a long time, because from all reports final OW is insecure yet arrogant, and has him on lock down. Hahahaha…I’m free and he’s not!

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago

I am not shy and I will tell, if appropriate.

I told family and close friends within days. All were shocked and not immediately helpful because they needed time to process it. We had date night, family game night, and marriage night. We worked together for years. People knew we had some problems; we weren’t fake or phony (at least I wasn’t). So, they were unprepared for the announcement. Mostly, she was well liked by all. But, then they fetched themselves up and gave me kick ass support from then on. It didn’t take them long.

And, then 2 months after D-day, I told them I had been chumped. That’s when the ranks broke a little. But, I was singing loud and clear. The people who fell away, should have and would have anyway.

I’m a talker. I need to talk shit out; whatever it is. I take polls. My problem with being stuck and talking about being as chump is balance.

In the beginning, I gave myself a limited time to talk about it during the day. One relative (I have a big family, so some had to wait to get the details from me anyway) and one trusted friend. I couldn’t always do this very well. And, I stopped polling for the most part. For instance, asking three friends “What do you think?” about some issue that was probably awful for them to hear anyway. It was too much for me and maybe them. I rotated friends and family to give them a break. lol

I found that if I tell the story too much then I stay in it. I give the hurt more lasting power. I give my power away. Of course, it depended on how I talked about it, too. Initially, I had nothing good to say. I still don’t most days.

I told them things they didn’t know. I told them how I sucked too. Just to balance it out. Most got that cheating is irredeemable. If I don’t tell I remain stuck, too. I get sick. And, this has been such a difficult journey already. I need all the help I can get. I’m only as sick as my secrets. I need to let my close friends know who I am and what’s happening. I am grieving and it’s a motherfucker. They get it, thank God.

I didn’t want to fly the chump flag. But, now I’ve joined a nation.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago
Reply to  thirstyfish

“I’m only as sick as my secrets.” Love this. Thanks, TF.

Jenn
Jenn
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

This is so true! I am a type A control freak who sparkled with all my might in an attempt to keep it together. I have an amazing family that will do anything to help, but I kept the details to myself and it kept me stuck . I am FINALLY kicking my hopium habit and seeing things for what they are . And talking about it. This is not MY shame to bear. I was a committed spouse . My only failing was the failure of knowing my own worth. I’m awesome. Any man who wouldn’t want me is a fucktard. End of story . Know your worth, walk away and save yourself loads of grief. Thanks Chump Lady. So many days it is like you are soeaking directly to me.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

A Dr. Phil-ism “You can’t fix what you don’t acknowledge.”

Or from the Christian perspective, bringing what’s hidden in the darkness to the light.

Aren’t we trying to teach kids this?

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

YES.

Sofia Leo
Sofia Leo
10 years ago

Totally agree with your hubby. When first two marriages ended (his addiction for #1 and his infidelity for #2) I held it together for the sake of my son and didn’t tell anyone what had really happened. It hurt for a long time and the end result was the people around me never knew what turds they were and still liked them.

When I left the narcissist just over a year ago I was already telling people and I felt so much stronger because of it. Having that outside viewer telling you that your partner’s behavior is just plain WRONG and validating your emotions is so important! It still hurt, but I was able to pick myself up and move on into a truly fabulous life that I might not have had if I’d kept silent.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Sofia Leo

What I find so icky about the whole facade, is that YOU go through all the stress, while cheaterwad enjoys the benefit of looking good to everyone else. People may even sympathize with the cheater, because s/he has a spouse who seems so stressed out or depressed…(experience talking here…)

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
10 years ago

CITS!!! You’ve done it again!! Beautifully put in your response to Sofia Leo! You went through that too, uh? Surely must be pretty typical, though…….

Cheaterpants had convinced me, most of our friends (not all!) & my parents that I was going through a mental breakdown, just loosing it, was a real witch for no real reason. (Our circle of friends included church counselors & they believed him, too!) My parents are NOT easily duped; they are both very well-grounded, but they live so far away, they really had no way of checking out what cheaterpants was claiming. He made it all sound as if he was the loving, caring husband who was trying to ‘get help’ for his suddenly disturbed wife! (Prior to this, I was known as dependable, responsible & emotionally stable.)

From his descriptions, they all decided I was in early stages of menopause & it was turning me into a mental case, maybe they should have me committed!! (Peri-menopause came a full 5 years later, so, no, that was NOT it! But no one asked ME what was happening!)

Of course, he pulled it off because, as you said, I was the one having melt-downs & other such things in public, on a repeat basis due to the horrors he was bringing into our life, all while he remained cool, calm & collected in public.

Even my Dad insisted I needed to come to their place for a while, (hundreds of miles away) away from business and home responsibilities, to recover! They had NO idea at that point what was happening. (Of course, I did not go anywhere at that point!)

And yes, many sympathized with the cheater because he was married to ‘someone like that’! bleeeeeeeech!

Not no mo’ !!!! 😉 In the end, the cheaters were reveled! (She was part of our circle, too) And now, (most) everyone understands why I was having those melt-downs! Sing it!

Thanks, CITS!! Forge on, girl, ForgeOn!

Louise
Louise
10 years ago

I told the people who mattered to me and I never covered for him at all. At the same time, my betrayal was a highly publized train wreck and I was damned if I was going to allow all those motherfucking rubberneckers front row seats to my families’ pain. I truly was in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. So I decided who I could trust and who cared about me, and shared everyhing with them. Oh, and I never failed to speak the truth.
What was important to me was for my kids to see me make to the other side. And I did!

Louise
Louise
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

For sure.

BubblestheJellyfish
BubblestheJellyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Rubberneckers and the people who turn away and say “we can’t choose we love you both”? Really, even when he has had anywhere between 4-6 AP’s along with a whole host of other stuff…..and you chose him…I guess I needed to she who they really were.

Louise
Louise
10 years ago

I froze those people out so quickly they wondered whether they even knew me. I had no time for people who lacked the backbone to acknowledge a grievous wrong.I still don’t.

Alyosha
Alyosha
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Good for you!

My experience with out mutual “friends” is that most everyone just wants to be liked. They don’t want to know anything that might make them have to judge or choose.

Well….. fuck those people. They are not my friends or friends of my children. They are not people who you can count on for anything important.

They can be liked by my cheater ex. It’s a win-win for everyone involved.

Cletus
Cletus
10 years ago

It was the morning of my 40th Birthday, my STBXW and two small children were at my parents mountain house. I did not have a cell phone at the time and was worried because my elderly parents were late in arriving, as well as other friends and family members. So I borrowed her cell phone to call and check on them. While on the phone a text came through and there was a picture of a man’s penis, as I scrolled through there were naked pictures of my wife taking a bath…This had all happened 10 minutes to me using her phone while I took the kids and dog on a walk…I tried to hold it together for my kids, until she decided to give me my birthday present…guess what it was? A fucking cell phone…Needless to say when my mom arrived and took one look at me she knew and broke down…Point is this all happened in a very public way and so everyone knew…Yet I remained stuck for a long time because of my kids, and just three weeks ago I found out that not only was she sleeping with this guy for three years, she was, at the same time fucking the neighbor…Point is making it public may not get you unstuck if you have small kids and want to keep your family together…At the start of her third affair during reconciliation I finally had to kick her out to save myself.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

And what I don’t get is that they don’t realize how they’re being assholes to the kids as well….

Jamberry
Jamberry
10 years ago

Compartmentalizing. They don’t see any connection between their roles as spouse and as parent. As a lawyer had to firmly explain to me “A good father does not cheat on his child’s mother.” Amen.

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
10 years ago
Reply to  Jamberry

“A good father does not cheat on his child’s mother.” Amen.

Amen some more!!!

THAT one went in my “keeper’s” file!!!

Thanks for sharing!

Forge on, Jamberry, ForgeOn!!!

Free2b1
Free2b1
10 years ago
Reply to  Jamberry

amen, amen, amen!!

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Oh..Well..My EX answered That Question Before my daughter was Even Born..
He Referred to her as ” JUST a TAG-ALONG “…

Guess who DOESN’T Get to Tag Along in OUR Life ????

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

Cletus that entirely sucks. Damn it.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

I’m so sorry you had to go through that with your kids there. I am glad, however, that your parents were on the spot for you when you needed it.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

OH mY GOD, CLETUS !!!!!!!!
** HUG**
You Know, I’m GLAD you Never Had to Rehash it,Cause Everyone Found Out at the SAME Time, could All Grieve it Together..and Get ON with Life Faster. No Slowbleeding Shit.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Fucking Birthdays… They can Be Tragic..Lifechanging when dealing with these Arseholes…My 34th certainly was. It was the Worst and Best Because I Knew After he did what He did to Me on My Birthday I Would NEVER Forgive Him..Ever or Take Him Back….THAT kind of Thing you Don’t Bounce Back From…
It’s That Harsh sort of Forever Gift… Seeing your Shackles..and Cutting them Off..
Permanently..Where there were Things you could Bury and Hide…THOSE situations don’t Allow it, You MUST DEAL with REALITY.

KT
KT
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

Yeah, the kids… The kids and the family matter. Then you start thinking about your past with them and it gets very difficult from there. I struggle with the fact that I only got one shot to have an intact family and that it isn’t ending well. It’s probably my conservative upbringing coming out.

KT
KT
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

True. I can see that it’s true in other people’s families, but I just have a hangup when I think about my own in that context. I’ve started talking to a therapist about the whole situation, so hopefully that will help.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  KT

Sweetie, I know. I’m from a similar background. It’s getting to point realizing that sometimes, despite our very best efforts, shit just plain happens.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yep, mine was only a couple of years from 40.

bogie
bogie
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Mine was after I turned 51 with someone who is 10-11 years younger – he was 52. Actually, I think that my 51st BD was the first day for them; he told me that it started in that month. He came home that day with a note in a card that said he “owed me a hand made corner cabinet”. His excuse was that he couldn’t find any corner wall cabinets (which I had specifically asked for). And by coincidence, he had to buy an expensive saw set up to make the cabinet (so he got a double present on my BD). Of course I made him pay back the money spent on that during the divorce!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Me, too.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yep, dday happened within shooting distance of ex being 40.

zyx321
zyx321
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Yup, just 8 days after 40th for my exH, even after he said he felt good about turning forty, our life was good ,etc. OW is more than 10 yrs younger than him, almost 12 yrs younger than me,

MMargaret
MMargaret
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Ha ha, for my 40th birthday I got tea bags one day later as a belated gift. We’d only been married a month too! Got a belated card too, pretty good eh?

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  MMargaret

Surely this age group is proof of the mid-life crisis…?

NOT!

Likely they’re realizing that if their spouse is ageing, then so are they…and it’s time to trade in….

Nord
Nord
10 years ago

Agreed. I was quite happy to be moving into a new stage of life and openly talked about it. Ex apparently was not happy about this because he’s off with someone very, very young. Kind of hilarious that he’s such a cliché. I refuse to be.

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago

Oh CL I think your husband is so right! I told and told and told, there were no secrets, and why should there be? It was not my actions or my shame. What I told was the truth and simply needed to be said.

I told my children, the guy who cut the lawn, our friends, our family, his family, my partners, our hairdresser (telling her is like taking out an ad in the newspaper anyhow), the lady who waited on me at Macy’s, etc etc. If a “friend” did not want to hear, I cut them out, they were not supportive and therefore I assumed that they either (1) didn’t think the heinous things my ex did were bad, which calls into question their own mental stability, or (2) were cheaters themselves.

My family rallied around. My friends were disgusted and furiously angry with my ex. My partners supported me in any way they could. The man who cut my lawn told me he’d beat my ex up if he ever saw him. Our acquaintances were horrified. A friend thought she saw my ex at the drycleaners and almost accosted the man, asking him “what are YOU doing here?” When she apologized to the man, saying she thought he was someone else, the man replied, “glad I’m not him.”

Everyone believed me, because despite being the great pretender, somehow something that had been “missing” about my ex made sense to them now. My ex had to move out of town and resigned from every board, club and organization he had belonged to here. He is literally afraid to show his face.

My children knew what their father did and they said that once I told them everything, things suddenly “computed”, and while upsetting at first it was somehow comforting to them to know the truth. This was because before D-Day, my children blamed themselves for causing their father to be so frustrated, angry and apparently “trapped”–this is the word my oldest son used to describe his dad– to the point where they felt they did not want to marry and have their own children if this is what having kids did to a man. At least now they know that their father is a very sick man, that he WAS doing very bad things with the women he brought to our home and into his and our lives, that my children were right to feel uncomfortable and nervous around these women, that their father’s frustration was sexual and from living a false life and had nothing to do with them, and that their father’s choice in hiding who and what he was and lying to everyone destroyed his life and damn near destroyed ours. They also understand their father’s almost complete disconnect and disinterest now that he is out of the home, as he rarely contacts them. They “get” it in a way they never could if they did not know.

My gut was to tell, and I believe it was healing, it was affirming, and it confirmed that the reality was very very bad. Telling also ensured that I would not be blamed by my ex, by my children, by my family and friends, or anyone else. There was simply no possibility that my ex (who tried to lie shortly after D-Day about why we split) would be believed by anyone including the milkman by the time I got done telling. And he certainly was not able to drive a wedge between me and my children or anyone else. Instead, after a few pitiful attempts at lying about what happened, including to our children, and realizing no one believed him, my ex just…crawled….away, like the guttersnipe he is.

I believe that, at least in my case, a refusal to tell would have been an attempt by me to cover for the ex, and I felt that pull at the beginning. We can use whatever pretty terms we want, but we are chumps and spacklers, and co-dependents, and not telling to me would have been a way to continue protecting him, but at my expense and the expense of my children. My ex tried to bleat a couple times, “you shouldn’t have told the children”, to which I replied (as I have said several times here): “IF IT WASN’T TOO BAD FOR YOU TO DO, IT CERTAINLY ISN’T TOO BAD FOR ME TO SAY. Now go away.”

Jerseygirl
Jerseygirl
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Kelly…you are singin’ my song, girl…! There was no fooling our kids, either. One of them said, He’s a lost cause, Mom. Even if he WANTED to get help, he doesn’t have the lifetime left to deal with all of his problems. Actions speak louder than words….

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago
Reply to  Jerseygirl

Yes Jerseygirl, my daughter said simply “my father is dead. There is a man out there who looks like him, but that is not my father.”

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Kelly, your paragraph 3 cracked me up, especially the last line.

And I too told everyone. The night of dday, I was unable to sleep so I got up and started sending emails in the middle of the night to my inner circle…which is actually pretty big. The next night I sent more emails, also while I was unable to sleep. And everyday I sent more until I had told about everyone. Each response was a balm to my very raw very wounded heart.

I realized right from the beginning that honestly and openly telling the truth was the only thing that was letting me survive. Each time I told, I let more light in and received kind comments that were so very necessary in that time when everything felt completely unmoored. I think talking was a HUGE help in my healing. And I am a person who processes through talking with others, so I *so* needed that. And I am so thankful to have had a community around me that stepped up to the plate.

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

“Each time I told, I let more light in and received kind comments that were so very necessary in that time when everything felt completely unmoored. ”

Beautifully said Northern, and so true in my experience.

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Wow Kelly..your story reminds me a lot of mine! I discovered Dday when I was at work, so my coworkers got to witness that hell. I did not hesitate to tell anyone on Dday..by the end of the day my in-laws knew, my entire family (Mom, Dad, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, dogs) knew, my children knew, and anyone I came in contact on my day of devastation knew. I never EVER thought about protecting his cheating, lying ass..not once. I didn’t do a damn thing to deserve it..he didn’t deserve to be shielded from the scrutiny of friends and family. I’ve had plenty of the “but we’re still friends with both of you and will continue to be” bullshit, which really pisses me off. Why would you want to stay friends with a cheating asshat that dumped his family to make sure he was happy happy happy? But they still do. And I make sure to correct the people who say “Oh I hear you’re splitting up”. I ask them if they know why, and if they don’t I tell them because my H is a liar, a cheater, and a selfish prick. Because of course, he never gives the reason about WHY we split up..he’s gotta save face, you know. I wish there was some way I could get on his FB page and let everyone know what he did..all of his old classmates, friends, coworkers and even relatives of his that don’t know. Why the hell should he have no consequences for his actions? If it were up to me, I would have drawn and quartered him by now!

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

With your Sandy. My situation was “easy” in terms of the almost-complete shunning of my ex post D-Day. That is because my ex was a king even among his fellow narcissistic sociopaths.

You see, my ex pretended to be the most uber loving husband and father, nauseatingly adoring, incredibly courtly, opening my car door, holding my arm, just super super attentive to me. Bought me wonderful gifts, told me he loved me every day. He also referred to me as “Mrs. Kelly” when speaking of me to others, so much did he purportedly respect his “beautiful wife.”

And then, after 25 years of marriage, 3 beautiful children, and us being well known in our community, I, and everyone else along with me, learned that format least 15 years, my ex was having affairs and groups sex with two women he worked with, who he purposefully introduced to me and our children as family friends, who he had stay in our home with me and our children present (sick fucks). They tried to befriend me and our children, they slept in our home, one painted us paintings which hung on our walls. There is much more but you get the gist– he is One. Sick. Fuck.

So on D-Day, and thereafter, when I and his whole world learned just what a sick pathetic lying perverted freak he was, pretty much everyone and I mean everyone was horrified. And rather than face it, my ex just ran. He almost immediately left and said he was going to marry one of the AP’s who he decided after D-Day he loved more than me. (And yes I told everyone that too, as if his grave wasn’t dug quite far enough yet).

Not even our dogs miss him.

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Wow…that part about the introductions and having them in the home. I don’t know how you didn’t kill that bastard. At least from my perspective. That kind of….I’m searching for a word…..like invasive or something…kind of betrayal….. I can’t describe it. I just can’t fathom it either. You know, hanging their paintings? I don’t know what to say.

I do marvel at my fellow chumps. My story is tame and I felt run over most days. You men and women on here are warriors.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

If people say something that indicates they might not know the real story (ie., “I heard you are no longer together”), I definitely clarify the situation.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

“you shouldn’t have told the children”, to which I replied (as I have said several times here): “IF IT WASN’T TOO BAD FOR YOU TO DO, IT CERTAINLY ISN’T TOO BAD FOR ME TO SAY. ”

Fabulous answer.

We should have a permanent list of these kinds of comebacks–if cheaters can have a playbook, why shouldn’t we?

13YEARCHUMP
13YEARCHUMP
10 years ago

Love that reply Chump in the sand! .. Going to tell STBEX THAT!!!!

My 43 year old serial & multiple cheating who is a Psychiatrist & Master Manipulator & Narcissist is petrified about our 9 year old son ( whom I have to confess he adores) knowing anything about his serial cheating!… Unfortunately even though I will not say anything bad about STBEX “Wasband” to son.. Son is smart & knows what is going on..he knows about the kid born during our marriage by one of the multiple OW…. My sweet son does not like to talk about it bc he loves his dad but I’m glad he knows & glad that I’ve shown hi. that cheating cannot be tolerated.

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago

Yes Chump, my ex, the great sparkler and spinner and distracter, a man who was apparently born with a silver tongue, just didn’t know what to say to that. Then I told him to rot in hell.

This Chump medicated for your protection
This Chump medicated for your protection
10 years ago

“Chump 101 for Dummies”

Oh!
And a theme song…

“99 ways to leave your Fucktard”

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago

LOVE the theme song This Chump!

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

That is so exciting! Can’t wait to read it.

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yay, CL, awesome idea 🙂

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

A book about leave a cheater, get a life? Great news.

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I am stoked! There is so much material. Consider it to be on my shelf. Oh and I’ve made some referrals to your site. Hazards of the trade sort of thing….

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Do we get royalties if we’re quoted? Lol!

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Bloody Hell…
There’s SOO MuchI KNOW my EX Doesn’t Want MY Daughter to Know..
I hope The Fucker DIES Before I Ever Have to Tell her the Truth about her ” Spermdonor”.
I Will NOT LIE for that Arsehole. NEVER Again.

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Wow Kelly, strong work! Whabam. Your story is like a fantasy for me. My STBX is so sparkly and was recently described as “too cute to stay mad at” by a friend. It’s nauseating. I think a lot folks turned away from her but I didn’t try to counteract her lies very much.

Kelly
Kelly
10 years ago
Reply to  thirstyfish

I would vomit on them thirsty. Ugh!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  thirstyfish

Thirstyfish,

May time be unkind to her face–and her plastic surgeon even worse…..

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  thirstyfish

I should clarify….my friend thinks my ex is a knuclkehead and meant that she played the “I’m too cute to be mad” at game. And that she has played it as a way of life for her.

It reminded me of the Eagles song “Lying Eyes”. The line “City girls seem to find out early….How to open doors with just a smile…” It was a post d-day mini revelation. Some spackle fell away. Another check in the “she sucks” column.

anotherErica
anotherErica
10 years ago
Reply to  thirstyfish

ugh… meant to tell you anyone that thinks they are “too cute” for anything sounds super annoying.

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  anotherErica

aE, I know. Since the “conscious uncoupling” thing came out, I think STBX is “Paltrowed.”

I blasted her with the whole thing…being syrupy and too cute. I called her a coward and a phony; which were the sanitized names and defects I blasted her with. Her being Paltrowed makes it a bit easier.

Deb
Deb
10 years ago
Reply to  thirstyfish

Like so cute have affair with cause he is just too cute to put down? uggghhhhhh

My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
10 years ago
Reply to  Deb

I only had a blasé reaction from one friend who happened to be having an affair at the time and was trying to justify it. It wasn’t until much later and that person realized the mistake that I could share more.

But I feel the need to say- anyone who minimizes the kind of pain and betrayal of infidelity and abandonment to someone they care about JUST SUCKS. You’re facing so much rejection in those moments, the most cruel thing is to give you another dose of it.

Those people are either delusional, self-involved or guilty of their own bad behavior– and are cryptonite for a healing chump. Cut them out right along with the cheater.

Free2b1
Free2b1
10 years ago

My Knight, I agree with you…the hurtful thing for me has been that I had to face the fact that these people I thought were friends, really don’t care. They were supposedly so disgusted when I told them who he was and what he had been doing, but then I would see them at a social function, chit-chatting away! I do think that if you are going to let it fly after d-day you need to be prepared for the push back from the ex. Mine did a thorough job of spinning a tale of “parent alienation” on my part that is pure projection, but sounds good… like a sparkly turd would sound. I think I read somewhere here that these people
are just weak, shallow people that, at the end of the day decide that it’s too inconvenient to take a stand against the cheater because it would be uncomfortable for THEM. I don’t want cryptonite-friends in my life anymore.

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago
Reply to  Free2b1

I definitely got the pushback. My whole family, and we are many, 86’ed her ass on my request. I told her my whole family knew that she was a cheating asshole and had been for years. I threatened to tell all of our colleagues and friends in our professional community and church.

This was the ONLY time she reacted to my calling her out for her treachery. Another small epiphany for me. It showed me that she was totally image oriented and was only concerned about what people think.

She could give a fuck about what I think (literally, I guess). Two weeks after I found out, she was inviting me out to ice cream with her family. I was reeling. That’s when I did the “you are not my fucking friend blast…” She’s gets it now. But, according to Paltrow and STBX, I am unwashed and Spiritually bankrupt, ad infintum.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago

“Anyone who minimizes the kind of pain and betrayal of infidelity and abandonment to someone they care about JUST SUCKS. You’re facing so much rejection in those moments, the most cruel thing is to give you another dose of it.”

Your choice of words is perfect, MKinSD. Anyone who minimizes that pain and betrayal sucks. Minimizes, tries to reduce or make smaller than it actually is. That is another form of abuse. Those who do that minimizing are abusers themselves.

thirstyfish
thirstyfish
10 years ago

I agree %100. I have a visceral reaction, even before my chump status.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

THIS!!!!!!!!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

Preach it!

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago

I spent 30+ years suppressing things that bothered me about my ex. Things like strange love notes I found in his pocket when our kids were young, anonymous phone calls asking if I knew where my husband was, nights he was supposedly working and didn’t come home, announcements of how he practiced talks in his female boss’ hotel room, his too close relationship with another coworker…all these things shamed me and kept me quiet. I could hardly believe myself that they were true, and somehow I felt it was my problem, that I was too insecure and overly jealous. In the end all my gut feelings were right, but I’d smothered them so hard I could hardly let them up for air. I never told anyone the whole truth of all the evidence that had piled up in my mind. Once you let the cat out of the bag you can’t go back, so you have to be sure of the truth before you start talking. In my case the truth was always spun in a way that made me feel like the crazy one. If I hadn’t read my ex’s journal, and stood there watching his mouth as he told me I didn’t understand what I’d read…I would never have comprehended the depth of the lies I was dealing with.

Telling everyone can be a two-edged sword. Some people responded, “but he never says anything bad about you.” They felt it was wrong for me to be talking about what happened. I was shamed once again for not being “a bigger person.” I remember wanting to yell “Do burglars go around talking about what they stole?” Anyway, I had to stop telling my 23 yo son because he believed his dad’s “we drifted apart” narrative. I didn’t want to risk losing him too.

Anyway, I was paralyzed while playing the pick-me dance for several months. It wasn’t until I saw my ex’s signature on the petition for divorce that my mind suddenly switched. That day I stopped caring about trying to help him and started protecting myself from any more of his bullshit.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

“Once you let the cat out of the bag you can’t go back, so you have to be sure of the truth before you start talking. ”

I felt this way too. But on dday my ex made it explicitly (and coldly, dispassionately) clear that he was done with me and no longer in love with me and in love with OW. He was unwavering and certain. It was so clear I did not have an ounce of doubt about the fact that is was definitely over.

It hurt so much that he just walked away and never looked back. But maybe, in hindsight, it was a huge blessing. And his absolute clarity (nevermind the absence of logic) gave me the push to let the cat out of the bag from the get-go.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Why are women so afraid to be jealous IF THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A PARTNER IS INVOLVED WITH ANOTHER WOMAN? It is perfectly normal to be jealous if the partner is giving away the love, affection, money, loyalty and care that should go to the woman he publicly promised to cherish. I knew the first day the J mentioned his deceased friend’s married sister that it was trouble, but I was afraid to bring my feelings into the open because…he would say I was jealous and insecure. If I ever have that feeling in another relationship, I am going to say: “Tell me about this woman and your relationship to her. The way you talk about her makes me feel uncomfortable. And you are spending less time at home. Are we on the same page about our boundaries with other people? Where are you drawing those lines?” And then see what happens. I regret more than anything that I didn’t speak up right then and insist that he tell me where those lines were. Or fail in the attempt, which would also tell me what I needed to know.

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

No matter how much I expressed discomfort with his relationship with his married coworker it made no difference to him. I refused to socialize any more with her and her husband because she made me so uncomfortable. I found out later that when I was out of town my ex would invite the coworker and her family over for cookouts with MY kids. That’s what kind of an SOB he was. At least I attempted to put a boundary in place.

Deb
Deb
10 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I feel for you. My daughter told me ‘mom it isn’t like you were on the wagontrain and left on the trail, the world is civilized now.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Deb

It FEELS like it ,Though…

and The WORLD isn’t Soo Civilized that Those Disordered Arseholes No Longer Exist.
I Swear, The Only Ones who REALLY get it are CHUMPS.

An English Lady
An English Lady
10 years ago

I admire all those who are able to say it how it is. I think CL’s husband is right and I agree that it is a good thing to be open & honest about what happened.

That said, I couldn’t do it. I was mortified, horrified, paralysed. I told no one – until ex-H moved out some 4 months after D day. I was terrified of being judged & coming up short. I had no self-esteem left. All that fear was a pointless waste of time & I wish I had blabbed to all & sundry. I missed out on a whole load of sympathy & support. The judgers will judge regardless & who wants friends like that anyway.

I am both stiff-upper lip English & come from a Catholic family & education (although I no longer practise now). Don’t wash your dirty laundry in public & don’t shame yourself were quite literally beaten into me as a child. As you may know Catholics are great at guilt & I was convinced that I was somehow guilty of not being good enough, not being wife enough, not working at it all hard enough. Like I say self-esteem shot to pieces.

Anyway, the point of my sorry tale is that it has taken me many years to undo all that well-intentioned upbringing & realise that I made life easier for my cheating, lying, vow-breaking, selfish ex-H by not shouting it from the rooftops.

A bit of counselling & sites like this have helped me shift my perspective. As ever thank you CL for your spine stiffening posts. 🙂

M
M
10 years ago

Snap! I’m English, stiff upper lipped and catholic too! Actually in my case my parish priest was one of the first people I told. On D-day itself too. He was truly amazing. Immediately offered me any help I needed in getting to safety. He agreed 100% that I needed to divorce and never once suggested I should do any different. If anyone tried to make me feel bad about my marriage ending I’d tell them to stuff it. I haven’t come across any judgement actually and I’ve spoken to several priests about my situation. But I know that doesn’t mean there aren’t people out there who would judge and I really don’t want to invalidate your experiences. I’m sure they are real, but I just wanted to show you that it’s not all like that. If anyone does judge you on this they are clueless and in the wrong. You are the one who has been wronged and terribly, terribly hurt.

We didn’t have the power to make our husbands make good choices. Only they had that power. And you just can’t force a man to do something he will not do. That doesn’t mean I did everything right. I didn’t. Of course not. Made a whole bunch of dumb, rookie mistakes. But I know I was committed to my marriage and faithful to my husband. I’m sure you were too. You mustn’t take the guilt on your shoulders for what your husband has done. It’s on him, not you. None of us is a perfect husband or wife. There’s no such thing. But there are small mistakes and then there are massive crimes. Not the same things at all.

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago

I’m Catholic too, and I don’t give a flying fuck what the Church has to say, or how I’m supposed to act. Being told how to deal with the shattering of my life by a bunch of men who’ve never been married? Give me a break!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

CL is like the emotional version of Skele-Gro (from Harry Potter)!

RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
10 years ago

I completely agree with you and your husband. My husband has done terrible things to me. Dispicable and illegal things that I felt so much shame about, I never told anyone. After Dday, I finally told a few close people the whole truth. Now, I have the urge to tell everyone who he really is, what he’s really done. I want that accountability. I have no urge to take him back, but if some craziness comes over me where I do, I want other people to remind me of what he’s done. I want other people to look at me as a fool if I give in. Because that’s what I’d be. I feel like I need to own my own culpability in letting him get away with it for so long. I don’t want to be that person anymore and I want everyone to know it.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Keep Coming Here…
We’ll Remind you To NEVER Take Him back….
and you Have a RIGHT to your anger…
As for the Shame…It’s Over..He Can’t Hurt you Anymore, Unless you ALLOW him Back.
DON’T.

My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
10 years ago

I did a bit of both hiding and telling. I needed my friends and family to survive so I told them immediately to help keep me sane. Their disgust was palpable and comforting. My closest girlfriends stayed on the phone with me for days and took me on trips to extricate me from the sleaze. My brother (X’s former best friend) and my brother in law (X’s brother) both cut him off immediately and haven’t spoken to him in 3.5 years. That support meant the world to me and was validating at a time when I felt invisible and worthless- they showed me the kind of love I would have expected from my husband before all this.

I also couldn’t keep it from my job- they knew me too well and knew I was off. That part was so humiliating but wow did they show me compassion- my team brought me a basket of goodness to cheer me up one day and my boss told me to take a few weeks to go relax on an island if I wanted.

The hiding on the other hand was all the hands of my X’s manipulative parents- who feigned concern and outrage to keep me from telling their family and country club friends, which they felt would demonize his and their image unfairly. I was so broken I went along with it, but in retrospect, I think they’re disgusting for that.

It’s no wonder they have such a disordered son with priorities and values like that.

Casey
Casey
10 years ago

The parent thing really hit me…. Ex’s parents ended up moving in with us for three months during false R (about 6 months after dday) and during that time that was when Tiger Woods was outed for his cheating. One night we all were at the dinner table (his parents were aware of what their son did) and the news came on and was talking about Tiger. My then 10 year old son asked why Tiger was on the news so much lately. Before I could even get a word out, ex’s parents jumped right in and brushed it right under the rug – said something about sponsership, etc., did not make one mention of why that POS was really in the news a lot. Seeing that I did respect my elders, I kept my mouth shut until I tucked oldest into bed that night where I did tell him the truth and did not sugar coat any of it. It was sure an eye opening display and the loss of respect of his parents. And yes, his father cheated on his mother. They are all so good at just brushing shit under the rug and minimizing the effects.

I kept quiet for a while, maybe six months but during that time I was questioned about my weight loss and people thought I was sick so I did keep to myself. I only told family members and a few close friends. Than after he made little to no effort I told everyone, still do. I don’t feel that I bash, but I also have a right to speak up and dammit, speak up I will. If people don’t like it tough shit! As someone else said, if it wasn’t so bad for you to do the actions, it isn’t bad of me to talk about it.

Casey
Casey
10 years ago
Reply to  Casey

The other thing I forgot to mention was that ex MIL sent me a letter right after dday talking about my parents who are both deceased. She stated that I was now going through what my mother went through all those years ago and that mom and dad tolerated each other later in life. Like being lied to and cheated on was a rite of passage or something. Fucking delusional……

My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
10 years ago
Reply to  Casey

Casey,

I feel your pain with the parents. My FIL also cheats and they live a complete lie. My MIL told me to keep it a secret to save me the embarrassment and that she didn’t want her sisters with great kids to know hers were in awful shape including one who has cut off my X. The family is mad at him, not the X, for doing that because it exposes them to some degree even if the larger family doesn’t know exactly why. In fact, after 3 years, some don’t even know we’re not together. I still receive Christmas cards to Mr & Mrs!

The worst though: as my FIL was a supportive consoling figure for me who swore his cheating son would be out of the will and their lives, I later read emails and texts where he was coaching my X on how to ‘manage’ me and his affair. Downright disgusting.

The disordered beget the disordered. What a life legacy.

Casey
Casey
10 years ago

MKISD, I agree. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. They can have their dysfunction because I want no part of it. Thank God they live on the other side of the US.
Shortly after dday, ex FIL had the audacity to text me that the bible speaks of forgivness… Are you kidding me???
I hesitated as my beef was not with him, it was with his son, but really, if you are going to start throwing bible stuff at me, have you ever heard of the 10 commandments? I did not engage with nastiness. But why is it with these cheaters and their families do as I say not as I do?
When they were living with us, ex MIL talked about how to this day, she fears he will cheat again and how she caught him messaging an “old friend” within the past couple of years and how she just doesn’t trust him. Her take is that all these woman are after her husband. Again, are you kidding me?? No accountablity for the cheater. And even though the ex MIL has disclosed the cheating to me and supposedly to ex, ex denies it to this day.
The lack of authenticity is ridiculous and I choose not to live my life they way that they do. I like honestly and loyalty and I will seek that. If not for me, but also for my kids.

Andrea
Andrea
10 years ago

Lyn has a point, about not competing with the cheater’s “we drifted apart” narrative to the children. My 19-yo son believes that whopper and is emotionally close to his dad (while physically away at college) and does not want to discuss ANY of this with me….even hears “I am really hurting” as criticism of his dad. He knows about OW but accepts her, even traveled with the happy couple in Europe for a few weeks, a mere 2 months after our separation. I don’t want to push him, or compete with OW (fergawd’s sake!) for my son’s affection, but he and I have “issues.” I don’t know how to handle the hurt and betrayal I feel from my son…I don’t believe that he needs to take my side. I just wish that he could acknowledge that this is a terrible thing to do to someone whom you profess to love.

I like the way my daughter has handled it better. My 16-yo daughter understands the cheating tale, has never met OW and doesn’t want to because “she’s the woman who broke up my parent’s marriage”, and yet she still loves her dad (who makes time to see her for a few hours about every second or third week). If she’s taken sides, it’s only with regard to this issue, but she maintains her love for her father in all else. Which is good.

I did not tell immediately, not while we were in false R. Even after we separated, it took me a long time to start talking to most people…mostly because I was abandoned 8 months into a year-long trip to Ireland, so I was far from my friends and family in the US. But once I got home, I told just about everyone. And it WAS then that I started to heal, and stopped feeling so anxious that I thought I might jump out of my skin, and so sad that I thought there was only one way to end the pain.

But I have never told my in-laws, whom I love dearly, “my side” of the story. I don’t believe they know, because I am sure the POS would never humiliate himself to the point of admitting that he’s not perfect, narcissist that he is. My MIL is completely confused about how we could have broken up and she grieves over it. I haven’t explained because I don’t want to criticize their son to them. (He would go entirely ballistic, too….so there’s some self-preservation in keeping quiet…maybe after the divorce settlement is final, so he doesn’t have that to bludgeon me with?) But I wonder, is it fair to keep this essential information from my in-laws? MY family knows, and my kids know. And no one on his side of the family knows. I have to keep searching my motives. It’s troubling.

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago
Reply to  Andrea

I’ve not said anything to my MIL either except that my ex refused to go to marriage counseling and never told me he was unhappy. It’s possible she believes this because I used to ask her how she dealt with her husband’s silence. My ex was very much like his father when it came to not talking about anything but work and sports. Sometimes I fantasize about showing her the 8-page document I found where my ex wrote about being madly in love with his coworker, but I know in the end she will stand by her son. So I think it’s best not to try to convince her of anything. I did tell her that I suspected he was in love with his coworker and she immediately called him up. He convinced her that they were just “good friends” and she was “someone who would listen to him.” My MIL wanted to believe that so she did.

Louise
Louise
10 years ago

Looking back, I realize the decision whether or not to share my experience was taken from me. Everyone already knew! And had an opinion. The spotlight was unmerciful, as were the unsolicited opinions. I could not believe complete strangers thought they had a right and a duty to comment about the state of my marriage and MY character. But looking back, I guess it did make it easier to move forward. I had no illusions about who did and did not love me. My lifelong dislike for people who enjoy commenting upon “the discomfort of others” was also confirmed. As was my disdain for Jesus cheaters.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

Hmmmmm…..

Well, if you are dealing with a sex addict label on a cheater, then, no, I don’t think chumps want to share that with others. It sort of insinuates some blame on you (even though that’s a load of horse-hockey). Plus, the word “addiction” adds that sense of malaise that could affect the cheater’s job and therefore household income.

When it’s not labelled a “sex addiction”, I think it’s easier for chumps to come out honestly, because then a spade’s a spade, and it’s clear who’s actually acting out like the fucktard.

Having said that…

In my position, I meet a lot of people. Honestly, what I find the hardest, and what stresses me out the most, are the victim whiners who will dominate conversations about how miserable they are, yet continuously makes excuses for the spousal asswipe, and for whom, action to take care of themselves or the rest of their family is utterly inconceivable (I’m talking people with all sorts of narcs, not just cheaters). I know more “all talk, no walk” people than chumps who will take a stand. This site has a natural bias towards the latter.

But this is from my own circle–there are probably people out there who experience the opposite…

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago

I agree, Chump in the Sand. There’s something about the porn/sex addiction label that makes it harder to disclose the truth, though why that should be I’m not really sure (I’ve also noticed some people on this site using the word addiction in this context in quotation mars, and I’m curious to hear more about why). My two daughters, 12 and 15, have not been told anything specific (I’m 6 months post-D-day), nor has my 18-year-old SD. Of course in my case there are other factors that make things super complicated, like my elder daughter’s suicidal ideations and the fact that we just lost my elder SD to brain cancer (this just 4 years after both girls had lost their mum to breast cancer). Everything in me is screaming out for justice and truth, and some days it is SO hard to keep my trap shut, especially since X is very well-regarded in the community while I fear I’m viewed as some cruel and heartless abandoner. So even though I moved out within 2 weeks of D-day, my silence feels in some ways like an ongoing version of the shit sandwich. Yet, at whose expense would truth-telling come? My daughters are already fragile, and for my remaining SD, knowing the truth about her dad would mean taking away the last remaining member of her FOO. The whole thing is just a Hobson’s Choice, and I’d rather come on here and vent to you guys than know I’ve irrevocably taken away something from a young woman who’s already lost far too much. Sucks to be me, but that’s just how it is.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

Some day, you’ll be drinking iced tea, and realize–“holy shit, am I ever strong to get myself and my family through that hellhole”–maybe with some scars, but hold them with a warrior woman’s pride…

CL interviewed Dr. George Simon, and I’ve read some of his articles. His view is that these behaviours are weakness of character, not of mental or emotional health (if I understand correctly).

Personally, I agree some narcs will grab onto a nice pathology to “apologize” for their behaviour, but I do believe there are sex addicts as well. But I’m no psychologist.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago

Thanks Chump on the Sand. I just finished reading a book by Jane Isay called “Secrets and Lies: Surviving the Truths that Change Our Lives.” Holy smokes, I just sat on the couch with my mouth hanging open, the stories were so incredible. The author was married for years and years to a guy who turned out to be gay, and even after D-Day, she and her husband never told their kids or anyone else. Instead, they just carried on as though they had this idyllic marriage, until one of their sons found out by accident years later. Of course then, the kids felt totally betrayed as their whole lives had turned out to be a lie. My own whole childhood was all about keeping secrets (nutbar alcoholic mom and all her crazy escapades), so I know from firsthand experience just how damaging keeping things under wraps can be. That kind of secrecy becomes not just an emotional but I think also a physical legacy–all of my sibs and me have some kind of autoimmune illness, sleep disorders, PTSD etc. etc. Does it become part of our DNA, too? Are my kids going to experience the same thing? Children create their own narratives–I know my sibs and I certainly did–and even though I haven’t lied about anything and I’ve tried to answer all their questions, my biggest fear is that my girls will wind up with some chimera that turns out to be WORSE than the actual truth (though how that could be is hard to imagine). I don’t even want to imagine what the fallout from that would be. What I need now is age-appropriate honesty in a way that won’t feel like yet another rug being pulled out from under them, and which also keeps me moving forward. I’m a 24/7 full-time mom now with a very intense full-time teaching job, and I can’t afford to go off the rails. Has anyone else found themselves getting MORE upset and emotional as time goes on and not the other way around?

Really grateful to have found this site. I read and read like crazy, and somehow I feel that I’m coming to know you all, and I can practically hear your voices in each heartbreakingly honest and uplifting entry. It’s incredible to me that people can go through such hell yet retain their humanity and their humour. Not to mention being some of the smartest, most articulate and generous folks I’ve been lucky enough to chance upon. Seriously, wow. Just, WOW.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

Er, make that Chump IN the Sand. Funny how the wrong preposition makes it sound like a Caribbean resort or the name of an umbrella drink. Sorry about that.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

*snort* don’t worry about it–I have an ethnic name IRL–I’m sooo used to it!

re: more emotional. That depends–are you in a safer place than before? Sometimes people suck it up until their in a safer emotional and physical space, and WHAMMO!

I’m grateful for this site too.

Amy Lauren
Amy Lauren
10 years ago

When I went to a new doctor to make sure he did not give me anything I broke down and told. How he just walk out without looking back. The shame of being abandon warps my sense of self-worth. I thought I deserve to be discarded that way because I was not good enough. It took me awhile to tell my girlfriends a month. I had no problem telling strangers. I called his mother asking for help when he did not come home and email me telling me he wanted a divorced. She told me to “walk it off.” The sad part was I really thought he was a nice guy that would not cheat when she asked me if there was another woman. After five months it was confirmed. I have not blasted him to his friends or family what a fucktard he really is. I’m going the NC route. He have given them his narrative there no point of changing their prospective. If I could have go back and change it I would blast him to the world. Allowing our neighbor, friends and family know what a vile creature he really is.

Jamberry
Jamberry
10 years ago

I agree! After sitting on everything for a month, I told a close friend who immediately burst into uncontrollable sobs. I thought “Wow, it really is that bad, isn’t it?” W sometimes need the reactions of those who care about us in order to see our situation more clearly. Very helpful when one is still reeling from the shock of it all. I had already filed for divorce by this time but the horrified reactions of my close friends confirmed that I was on the right path.

Deb
Deb
10 years ago

I was so stunned I had to keep talking to everyone just to verify it was “a bad situation” I was getting bells and whistles from spousewhore that this was a perfectly normal thing I was the one who would soon see that this was for the best, one day I would understand and until them don’t hit a wall and keep myself in bubble wrap. I mean spousewhore even told me I would like the little fbuddy. I was walking around on half tilt it felt like life was muffled and not really real anymore.

The sad thing is so many said the same thing happened to them or someone they knew, it is like the entire world is cheating whores now.

I am not sure I agree with the question though. As a huge factor would be in how the relatives react, and mine on both side acted very differently than I thought they would. they either sided with spousewhore or would not let me talk about it.

I was cast into the world of anyone I met and I was talking.

Jamberry
Jamberry
10 years ago

“We sometimes need”

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Your Husband is Right.
Those Arseholes are Soo much like Childmolesters…They have the “power” cause They’re ” Bigger” and can Hurt You, and ” It’s All Your Fault” and ” Who’s Gonna Believe You over Me, After All I’m Such a GREAT Guy in THEIR Eyes….If YOU Tell There’s Gonna Be Trouble “.
The Old Commercial Was Right…
” Say NO, Then GO..Then TELL “.
It’s How you Heal When You’re Little..and Those Cheating Motherfuckers have Done their Best to make us Small Again…and Helpless..
But Fuck THEM, ,Cause We’re Mighty..
Just Like a Child Can’t Do ANYTHING to DESERVE being Molested or Raped…WE CHUMPS, Didn’t do ANYTHING to Cause What Happened to Us…It ALL on THEM…

YEP, Say NO, Then GO Then TELL.
Those That Don’t Believe… To Hell with THEM TOO !!!!!!!!!!!

Leia
Leia
10 years ago

Yeah. After the first time I told no one. This time, everyone gets told. I just told the kid that delivered the furniture what happened. Don’t know this kid from Adam, but he was a good delivery guy. So, I too, think you’re on to something.

Drew
Drew
10 years ago

Miranda Lambert has a song out in which she sings “this ain’t your mother’s broken heart” where historically women didn’t share the messy details. I was shocked when the man I thought I knew, who’d been in my life for over twenty five years, who’d fathered our three children, could be that POS. I think NOT telling leads us down a toxic path. It’s not just our reality, it is the TRUTH. When people ask me what happened to my marriage I tell them my husband ran off with his racquetball partner and that I was sleeping with him at the same time he was screwing his OW. I also tell them how much he fucked our family over financially, how even though he made over 100k a year he CHOSE not to pay our mortgage, and how he stole money from his kids’ college funds and the list goes on; so he basically robbed us of everything we had worked for. (We miss our home.) How in the end nothing else mattered to him except his wet dick. It’s a great life lesson. I will never trust anyone with my financial well being again. I know his choices say more about him than they do me, I am working on my “picker”. As great as our challenges were in our marriage I never chose to have an affair to end it. He did. All that and who knows what else? I think when these things happen and people say oh they grew apart blah blah blah it’s just not okay to think this will never happen to you. It does and often. Narcs are prevalent nowadays. I think living in a small town made me aware of how often falling in love with others was a contributing factor to divorce. So much for modern day vows. If we can learn from our mistakes our world becomes a better place.

With Brave Wings
With Brave Wings
10 years ago
Reply to  Drew

Miranda and Blake are both cheaters. Miranda was the other woman in Blake’s marriage. Trash (with an amazing voice, but still TRASH.)

Meg
Meg
10 years ago

I told close friends and family – and they were shocked and horrified – but I also had to swear them to secrecy. My ex had/has a high-profile job where reputation is everything and a lot of innocent trusting people depend on him. And much as I hate him passionately for what he did to me, I do think he does a good job in his career – it gets all his positive attention, and I got all the negative crap and abuse. So I did promise both him and myself that I wouldn’t ruin his career. And I still believe that it was the right moral thing to do. But after almost 3 years since Dday, it’s still eating me alive to know that his friends and colleagues and people who depend on his leadership don’t know the truth. The post about revenge a few days ago really hit home – I have fantasies about bringing him down in front of the whole world. But this isn’t helping me get to ‘meh’. Help??

SeeTheLight
SeeTheLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

Meg- So often you see betrayed spouses/chumps being labeled as bitchy, scorned women when they dare to reveal their high profile cheaters’s deceits. I think Jenny Sanford and Elizabeth Edwards both had their detractors and apologists for their cheaters, when they revealed the truth. I can understand your anger and your fantasies as you try to navigate a clear path. I don’t think your cheater deserves a cover-up that detracts from your own nagging conscience, although you do state you feel it was the moral thing to do under the circumstances. I keep remembering Chump in the Sands definition of integrity and its root being the word, integration. I don’t believe your cheater could have integrity in the workplace while eschewing it on the home front but I understand if your divorce hinges on keeping mum to maintain your family’s economic well-being and stability.

Meg
Meg
10 years ago
Reply to  SeeTheLight

Yes my and my family’s stability depends on my silence – so thank you for understanding. Another family member attempted some retribution and got smacked down hard for it, so I can’t go there without putting my divorce settlement in jeopardy. It’s great just to vent! (I wish I’d found this site 2 years ago.) And I’ve gone *religiously* no contact for almost 2 years now, so I don’t want to break that, I think my mental health is better for it. It’s just the middle of the night screaming rages that sometimes pop up. I keep hoping there’s a missing piece of advice or something that will put it all into perspective so I can move on completely.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

Meg, it may not help. Are those screaming rages really about him? To hold onto hate for him that long is likely because you have some for yourself. This long after your split it would be good if you could let go of the hate. Mostly of yourself I think. My ex came within an ounce shooting me and it took a lot of therapy to get OK after that. I can honestly say now that I no longer hate him. I still have fear of him so I do some nights suddenly think “today he is dying”. I have no, absolutely NO guilt for thinking that. If he were dead I would be truly fear free. Other than that, it matters not what he did, what he is, who he’s with or who he will fuck over next, I know it won’t be me. See if some of that hate is directed at yourself, that might be key to getting past this. Jedi Hugs!

Meg
Meg
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Yes you are so right. Part of it is hatred of myself for falling for it hook, line & sinker. I was so careful – I had been divorced before and single for many years – and I thought he was my soul mate, my one true love, the one I had been waiting for . . . and I’ve found from reading this site that he didn’t even have the balls to be original about it, he just took it verbatim from the cheater’s playbook. I just found this site a couple of months ago so I’m just learning to let go of the hate for myself and start to realize that I was living as authentically as I could have at the time with the information that I had. But it’s hard, one step at a time . . .

This Chump medicated for your protection
This Chump medicated for your protection
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

I call ” Bullshit ”

If your career requires honesty and integrity then you don’t fuck people you’re not married to !

Destroy his ass!
Let his career be a fleeting memory like his honesty and integrity!

Chrissybob
Chrissybob
10 years ago

Agreed! it’s the fact that you’re a good person that makes you concerned for the innocents but where was his concern for you or his concern for them??? That is not your burden!

murielschnierow
murielschnierow
10 years ago
Reply to  Chrissybob

just my opinion!forget about the stupid cheater,get the money, get more money as in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, if there are children encourage strenghth, and Meh is about not caring. read John Kass in the chicago Trib- give him a BIG moutsa (Greek) as in HA with your palm out. then make some money ,dress like a socialite, and get your hair done!!
The Moutsa will work. if asked about your life tell everyone that you are a socialite.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

HA!!!!!

D’you REALLY think he’ll lose his career in this day and age? Especially if he’s good at spackling???

I don’t care WHAT denomination he’s from (and I have personal experience in a number of denominations–evangelical/charismatic to traditional to mainstream), if you really believe that, I’ve got prime real estate to sell you. PRIME.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

We all want justice, thing is in most cases you cannot get it without hurting yourself. If outing your ex does you no harm then go for it. Just makes sure you don’t end up with the fall out instead of him. These manipulative fucks are very good at turning shit around, even when you don’t do anything to harm them.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

Meg, is he a minister?

Meg
Meg
10 years ago

yes

namedforvera
namedforvera
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Not only that, but I’ve learned there’s a term of art in the profession for the ministers who have to clean up the churches in the wake of ‘sinister ministers’. They’re called “After pastors” and it’s a whole subspecialty, across (Protestant) denominations, anyway. That there’s a need for such a profession speaks volumes, IMHO.

Linda
Linda
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Thank you for writing about cheating ministers! My first husband was a pastor. He is also a sociopathic child molester. He raped our 2 little girls. He got off in his criminal trial because children at that age couldn’t testify in court. They both have physical scars but are now happily married mothers.
Fast forward to the present. My current husband had an ongoing emotional affair with a former mistress for 20+ years. This is in addition to various sexual affairs over the years. I discovered the nasty texts nearly two years ago. I didn’t tell about my second husband because everyone knows about my first husband. I feel do ashamed that I chose these men! I am too embarrassed to be open. The kids all know but I am trying to work things out with my lying POS husband. I
Am not sure what my next steps will be.
I did talk to a few women at my church who were very loving and accepting of me. My pastor’s mom assured me that any choice I make is fine with her. Honestly, I am just praying and waiting. I have talked to a lawyer and have everything ready to file if he shows any signs of cheating again. But I am not sure I can live with what he has already done. (I was diagnosed with an STD last year and I have only been with him for 26 years!)
Thank you so much for sharing on the site! I need to know that I am sane when I feel do sad.

Linda
Linda
10 years ago
Reply to  Linda

Thank you all for encouraging me. I am being vigilant about his behavior. He believes I know nothing about computers/technology. Truth is in my profession, we use technology like it is oxygen. He erases things on his laptop and thinks they are gone. Surprise! It is never really gone if you know how to find it! I was simply not aware and not watching before! I thought he had been “clean” for the last 17 years.
My attorney advised me to only divorce him when he was employed. He hates working at a job. It is beneath him. So, he has a job right now and I am waiting to see how he does with me. His parents house is in probate and he should get cash from that. I just don’t want to pay alimony to a cheating, lying scumbag! I have a year before he can quit and collect social security so I am trying to time my moves to my advantage. So far in our marriage, he has always been the winner. I have been the exploited, employed chump. No more!
I am not sure what I will do but I will do something in the next year. Either he repents and makes amends or I will let him go.

KarenE
KarenE
10 years ago
Reply to  Linda

Linda, why would you need to wait ‘until’ he cheats again? He’s clearly clearly shown you who he is. Do you want to live with this POS for the rest of your life? You deserve so much better! And even being single in peace and tranquility is WAY better than living with a person like this, he’s disgusting!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Aw, Linda, real remorse is also in his attitude to you. It’s not taking responsibility for his wronging you by wanting you to shut up about it and move on.

And I hate to sound subversive but…if he’s giving you his passwords but talks to you that way…it’s extremely likely he’s just getting better at hiding the other accounts or phone or something…

KarenE
KarenE
10 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Linda, one thing that helped me get unstuck was realizing that even if he never cheated again, this was NOT a person I wanted to be with any longer. My ex is a selfish, entitled, negative, judgemental, demanding, unpleasant, no fun guy!! He did not value or respect me or our relationship (or anybody else either), and he did not care about his children’s well-being. In a way, that 2nd time he cheated freed me from everything ELSE that was not good about him!

It doesn’t sound like your ex values, respects of loves you. Doesn’t sound like he is a pleasant person to be around. He sounds incredibly entitled. THOSE ALONE are GREAT reasons to leave, cheating or no cheating!

Psyche
Psyche
10 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Hi Linda – this is a reply to your comment below.

GOD is not good enough for him? You are so right – this is a no-win situation. Please follow KarenE’s advice and cut it off now. Frankly, even if he were sincerely repentant, you would have no obligation to give him a reconciliation. I totally understand that you feel obligated to carry it out because you started, but guess what… that’s chumpiness! He feels no such obligation to you: trust that from the many chumps here who were chumped again after suffering through false reconciliation.

You can walk away right now. File for divorce. Then, if you must, tell him you appreciate his efforts, but that it’s clear to you the relationship is irrevocably damaged, and you’ve already taken steps to move on. (Just make sure you do line up your ducks before you tell him – if he’s already grumpy in reconciliation, trust Chump Nation again that he will turn vicious once he realizes the kibbles are really and truly ending.)

Linda
Linda
10 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

KarenE, I am stuck. My husband gave all of his passwords,etc to me so it seems he is trying. But “seems” is the key word. Unless I see some genuine remorse soon, I can’t go on. He has no grief over any of this. His answer is that he already apologized and I should just get over it. Chump Lady is doing more to clarify my thoughts than any counseling I have had. I am grateful for her and all of the others who are sharing their stories.
Oh! Here is another bit of information. DH is mad at God. God, you know, the maker of the Universe, has not been good enough to him. Now how am I supposed to be good enough as a wife? Impossible! I can’t do anything. Of course at this point, I don’t want to do anything!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

THIS!

It’s not your job to make him look good, but it is only fair for those people in the church who are vulnerable to have measures in place to ensure their emotional safety.

GOOD elders who are aware of this will institute measures, such as your ex not being alone on the premises with a woman–church secretary on premises and nearby. Things like that.

Trust me–he ain’t losing his job over this. At most, they’ll give him some “time off” to reboot. And depending on where on the spectrum his church is, he may get off looking good and you like some evil tool of Satan.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

Meg, you just need to register your screen name to the website, with your email address. Then log in, and I posted a message to you in the general forum.

CL’s forum doesn’t have private messages, so no one can email you via your profile, or id you in any way.

Meg
Meg
10 years ago

Thank you! I’m so glad you guys understand, it means a lot. And thanks CL for the ‘sinister minister’ – some days laughs are few and far between, but I’m still chuckling over that one! And you’re right, I was the PR lady, no more thankfully. But I’m trying to take the high road and let the karma bus (or someone upstairs if we’re getting religious) deal with him. I’m having more good days than bad days now, so it’s getting better, I just wish I could convince that little bit of still-angry person inside me to not care anymore.
Chump in the Sand – sorry I’m new here – how do I get to the private forum?

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

My husband’s a minister.

I’m going to post to you in the private forum.

13YEARCHUMP
13YEARCHUMP
10 years ago

He is!!! You don’t sound like a Minister’s wife CITS! 🙂

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  13YEARCHUMP

I sure as shit HOPE NOT! We have enough “Minister’s Wives” out there. What people need is a good dose of reality–in and out of the church.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

That was meant for Meg–I’m not out to “duke” anti-Christian cheaters–lol–I’ll join any chump in a back alley!

Louise
Louise
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

Nothing worse than a Jesus cheater; in my case so willing to tell me I was going to hell for supporting abortion and gay rights, but breaking one of the Ten Commandments? “Christians aren’t perfect just forgiven.” This from a person who said Ted Bundy had a better chance of getting into heaven than me cause he was “saved” just before his execution. The memory of that hypocrisy makes me want to barf all these years later. Sometimes I wonder how I survived, but I did more than that. Today, I am content in myself, my surrondings, and my family and I know I can survive just about anything life throws my way. Just throw the bastard out and make a new life for yourself. That’s the best revenge.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Man, Louise, listening to the crap you had to listen to makes me want to vomit.

FWIW, Louise, I don’t think God thinks your husband’s opinions of his choices are right–it’s just self-delusion that allows people (honestly, self-avowed Christians AND not), to pick and choose which “sins” are worse than others.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Did you tell him you don’t want to go anywhere where Ted Bundy might be?

LOL. The strangest things come out of peoples’ mouths when they are proselytizing sometimes. Makes you realize they aren’t that deep, eh?

Louise
Louise
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

That’s exactly what I said! Any place Bundy was spending eternity was a place I didn’t want to be.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Aw, Louise, not even a Bundy with angel wings, a halo and a harp? SURELY you wouldn’t want to miss on such an opportunity…

murielschnierow
murielschnierow
10 years ago
Reply to  Meg

Meh is the goal. but first the desire for justice is human . Most people are asleep to human misery. Art did something vile 2 months ago and i think he wrote his obituary. i am livid and i usually am meh +. Now my son and daughter are not in contact. wait a minute what is my rule? they are not getting away with this. Let them have time to mourn the miserable father that wasnt (tho at least gave money) and i will see what i want to do. prepare yourself folks . Even children can be disappointing.OK why not i fire everyone and play lots more Bach? Muriel

Maree
Maree
10 years ago

murielschnierow, I am now familiar with your story. You have been and are an incredibly strong woman. Speaking as a hard nosed Aussie, you could have killed that cheating ex husband of yours and it would have been “justifiable homicide”. That is just my opinion of course. I dream that my ex husband will meet his maker but then I feel terrible for having such thoughts. Still it is nice to dream !! I do hope you are well dear lady.

Maree
Maree
10 years ago

Hi murielschnierow, I am an Australian and I do not know your story but I will endeavour to enlighten myself. Apologies for my ignorance. My 2 adult kids (35 & 31) haven’t spoken to me for just on 4 years even though they are completely aware of their sire’s misappropriation of funds from a job and sex with a 20 year old Asian prostitute and that he had to be tested for STDs – YUK. He told the kids about that and it makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. So, to quote you “even children can be disappointing”. To say I have a sick feeling in my stomach up to my throat on a daily basis is an understatement, as I do not understand my treatment because no one will speak to me. Now, I will google you and educate myself!! Best wishes.

anotherErica
anotherErica
10 years ago

Do you mean they don’t tell anyone?? Because I disagree… I did immediately tell my two best friends who do not live locally and aren’t really good friends with each other. And that is all that I told for the 6 months of our attempted reconciliation. I did not tell my family or anyone else until the day I dumped his shit all over her car at their work and exposed the whole thing 6 months later after he failed me all over again.

For me, from the moment it happened, I knew what he needed to do for us to attempt to move on from this. It was the most basic request you make of a cheater – that they completely cut the affair partner out of their life. He needed to fire her. So, there was no halfway thing he could really do. He attempted it (I think) by getting her to quit and then hiring her back a few weeks later (I think his attempt was to show that he was actually WILLING to fire her and that should be enough). And that was when I left. It was a very black and white request and he didn’t do it. I never wavered in this request. He even fucking accused me of getting that idea in my head from my friends… like I would never be so strong to come up with it and hold to it like I did. But no, it was what I basically screamed at him within a couple hours of discovering the texts.

I think the Stuck get Stuck because their cheater at least makes some attempts to meet their demands. Or makes amends in some small ways. And feels really bad when they fail again and again. I will admit if my ex had done what I asked then we would have stayed together… for some amt of time until he fucked up again… met her through other ways, met someone else, whatever. Or just until I found out I actually couldn’t move on. But it would have been a lot harder to me to leave once I no longer had that very specific, very basic, and unfulfilled request to hold onto.

I think the Stuck need to draw their fucking line in the sand. A big line. Not some half-assed request. One that if met will make them feel safe again. (we can argue all day whether even that is enough, that maybe attempted reconciliation at all is for the birds) And when the cheater fails to do what they need, they need to leave. The cheater has shown then that they don’t care about you or about really saving the marriage.

Angie
Angie
10 years ago

At first I didnt tell a soul, because I knew (and hoped) that if we worked things out – they’d always know our “dirty laundry”. After the 4th and final D Day, I told almost everyone. But the kids still dont know the real reason, though I do plan to tell them. Someday. But I’d have to agree, its when you keep everything inside, that’s what keeps you stuck. So, with that in mind, check out this song from the movie Frozen’s sound track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEKLFS-aKcw

Let It Go –

The snow glows white on the mountain tonight
Not a footprint to be seen
A kingdom of isolation
And it looks like I’m the queen

The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside
Couldn’t keep it in, heaven knows I tried
Don’t let them in, don’t let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don’t feel, don’t let them know
Well, now they know

Let it go, let it go
Can’t hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don’t care what they’re going to say
Let the storm rage on
The cold never bothered me anyway

It’s funny how some distance makes everything seem small
And the fears that once controlled me can’t get to me at all
It’s time to see what I can do
To test the limits and break through
No right, no wrong, no rules for me
I’m free

Let it go, let it go
I am one with the wind and sky
Let it go, let it go
You’ll never see me cry
Here I stand and here I’ll stay
Let the storm rage on…

My power flurries through the air into the ground
My soul is spiraling in frozen fractals all around
And one thought crystallizes like an icy blast
I’m never going back
The past is in the past

Let it go, let it go
And I’ll rise like the break of dawn
Let it go, let it go
That perfect girl is gone
Here I stand in the light of day
Let the storm rage on!
The cold never bothered me anyway

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago
Reply to  Angie

This song always makes me bawl! I’m a radio DJ and when I’m in the studio and it’s on my playlist, I have a hard time keeping myself under control!

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Angie

Awesome.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

The Song I Meant. Soo Much Strength…

zyx321
zyx321
10 years ago
Reply to  Angie

I actually still have trouble with this song, as my exH went on about how he was “tired of living a lie” etc etc. So when I hear the song, I think of him and how he must have felt to finally let go of the hiding who he is and what he wants.

Silly, I know, as it turns out the lie was the fact that he was a cheater and never confessed, etc. It was all _HIS_ fault, I never made him lie, etc. He never spoke to me and told me what he wanted/needed. (So, still a bit of woulda-shoulda-coulda in my brain; not at “meh” if things like this trigger me… but on my way.

ReDefiningMe
ReDefiningMe
10 years ago

I so agree – what do any of us have to be ashamed of…(of course that takes a while to realize after the vast mindfuck that is being married to these crazies…)

I couldn’t keep it a secret when exH left – he met with his Board of Directors at work, resigned unexpectedly, and left the country 24 hours later. The Board and all the kids he worked with figured it all out, and some came to me (sheepishly) later and apologized for believing his “side of the story”.

Meanwhile, I’d been a stay at home mom for 6 years, and miraculously found a job, where I sat and involuntarily wept for the first six months. I’m sure my co-workers thought I was insane – I literally cried the whole way to work; at work – like 10 hours a day. You see, exH couldn’t HAVE crying – he claimed it was “abusive and manipulative” so I hadn’t cried for ten years – it literally made him violent. Ten years of stored up tears. My family hated him immediately – they all figured he was cheating. The saddest part was the kids he worked with – many of them had idolized him, and he really disappointed them. The public nature of my complete and total meltdown did allow me to see that people generally WERE good and supportive and that was very healing. My recent troubles have been much more private, and I’m finding it harder to handle. Maybe that’s part of the reason…

KarenE
KarenE
10 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

Agh, the ‘no crying’ rule! I had a boyfriend when I was younger and even stupider than now, who would do or say nasty things, then when I was upset and cried, would say ‘stop crying, you’re doing that to make me feel bad, to make me feel guilty’. At least it didn’t take that long for me to get away from him! Then my narc ex used to demand that I not raise my voice if I was upset or angry – and after a while, would accuse me of ‘yelling’ even when I spoke very softly but was upset. I guess the ‘real’ rule was that I should always be happy happy with him and adore him and never complain or criticize or be upset about anything – I guess that would have satisfied him!

Disgusting entitled demanding narcs. And they suck us in, so we’re actually trying to comply with their ridiculous demands.

ReDefining, my heart breaks to think of you crying so much for so long, but at the same time, in my mind is the image of woman who is finally FREE to feel and to express what she felt. I’m so glad people were supportive and understanding!

RJam
RJam
10 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

OMG I got this too. ‘You’re yelling’ in this tone that made it seem like it was unreasonable that I raise my voice b/c I’m upset that HE CHEATED ON ME! I think most sane people would get worked up. My therapist was always wondering why I wasn’t getting mad – and all the while he was shaming me when I would get upset with the ‘I don’t respond to yelling’ attitutde. I should have been screaming like a banshee!

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago
Reply to  RJam

I hear you guys! Every time I’ve cried about the whole nightmare, he’s told me too quit crying, because he doesn’t like it. And when he flat out told me I need to get used to my kids being part of the OW’s life, of course I bawled. He is so cruel! And yep..even then he told me to quit crying.

Angie
Angie
10 years ago

Speaking of singing, this one gets me too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUqgL5urWc

Invisible- Hunter Hayes

Crowded hallways are the loneliest places for outcasts and rebels
Or anyone who just dares to be different
And you’ve been trying for so long to find out what your place is
But in their narrow minds, there’s no room for anyone who
dares to do something different
Oh, but listen for a minute

Trust the one who’s been where you are wishing all it was sticks and stones
Those words cut deep but they don’t mean you’re all alone
You’re not invisible
Hear me out, there’s so much more to life than what you’re feeling now
Someday you’ll look back on these days and all the pain is gonna be…
Invisible
Oh, invisible

So your confidence is quit
To them quiet looks like weakness but you don’t have to fight it
Cause you’re strong enough to win without the war
Every heart has a rhythm, let yours beat out so loudly
That everyone can hear it, yeah, promise you don’t need to hide it anymore
Oh, and never be afraid of doing something different
Dare to be something more

Trust the one who’s been where you are wishing all it was sticks and stones
Those words cut deep but they don’t mean you’re all alone
You’re not invisible
Hear me out, there’s so much more to life than what you’re feeling now
Someday you’ll look back on these days and all the pain is gonna be…
Invisible
Oh, invisible

These labels that they give you just ’cause they don’t understand
If you look past this moment, you’ll see you’ve got a friend
Waving a flag, for who you are, and all you’re gonna do
Yeah, here’s to you and here’s to anyone who’s ever felt invisible

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Angie

We See you, Angie ((hug))

Angie
Angie
10 years ago

Im on a music inspired kick. 🙂

Dutch-chump
Dutch-chump
10 years ago

At first I kept quiet, I told people online, but did not want to hear the opinions of those close to me. Because they would write him off and I was 100% focused on reconciliation. They would judge him. And me for staying.

Can anyone say denial?! The whole false reconciliation period I kept things close and quiet, but I had to tell some people close to me. They saw me break down, were worried. And that broke the dam, their reactions made me see what I didn’t want to see, but needed to. I knew the moment I would let the children know there would be no turning back, you do not throw the bomb of knowledge on them when there’s still a way back. For me telling people was kind of a catalyst, from total silence to giving the window cleaner the whole (SFW!) story (I had to cancel his services and suddenly decided to tell him how and why, he was so kind to offer me an occasional wash for free… :-D), from shame and humiliation to inner strength and courage.

My openness brought me many similar experiences in return. People I hardly knew, like a woman in the health club I explained my absence to: “sorry, going through a bad divorce” – suddenly there’s a fellow chump right in front of you! And many with experience and long term success stories… too bad we stay quiet so often!

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Dutch-chump

“My openness brought me many similar experiences in return.”

I found this too. I found my sharing sometimes prompted the listener to share how it had happened to their best friend or someone close to them too. Sometimes the listener…like the owner of the vegan grocery store I randomly shared (the very short version) my story with.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

yes, this is so true. When I was printing a pic of the horrible knife my ex was sleeping with a woman behind me saw it and poured out her story of abuse. people share our experiences and they will share it with us because we care about each other, at root most people need people. it’s so simple.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago

First year marriage mom dies (cancer.) I’m diagnosed six weeks later. She wouldn’t have known how to support me if she’d been alive. Didn’t come from emotional support. I get that. Radiation messed with me. Find out he’s cheating (while I’m being nuked.) Had to quit work and go on disability. He says I’m lazy and he has to cheat cause I’m not working. Chronic illness and shmoe’s desire to beat me with my damage in continued court battle has me in a puddle. Wish I had the strength of Madelaine-truly (shout out to Madelaine.) Weak. Isolated. Sick. Yesterday I was ordered to voc eval so he won’t have to pay the support I actually need. I can barely spell dignity. Blood pressure spiked 30 points. On 3rd lawyer and 2nd move. Belongings in storage, what’s left of me in with 87 year old father, cause shmoe didn’t pay what first lawyer assured me but wound up getting for their crooked firm instead. Weaker. More sick. Completely isolated. Failed. Humiliated. Dwindled to survival mode. Sang as loud as I could. Still seeking voice. Some of us get laryngitis.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Oh– and I “only had surgery and radiation…NO chemo” his lawyer wrote. And I didn’t recover like his friends wife did so he wasn’t attracted to me anymore, he said. And my cousin’s cancer was far worse than mine, dad reminded me. And what do you mean lupus shmoopis. Your eyes aren’t bleeding or anything. Nothing like fighting for your fucking disability to boost your self esteem. This is why I don’t sing. I hate my song. On a happier note…?

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Yea.. How ” Selfish” of you to get Cancer so he HAD to Cheat on You.

ARSEHOLE.

He says YOU’re Disabled..No HE’S the one who’s SICK in the Worst Way..
At Least There’s a Remedy for Yours…and you’re FIGHTING. He’s ALWAYS gonna be DISEASED, by his OWN Choosing…HE’S WEAK. Can’t Even Control his OWN DICK.
Tell Me, Sara, Who is The Really SICK one in this Scenerio ??
You’re BRAVE..He’s a ” Little ” Fucking COWARD.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago

Oh I love you Blooming Rose! I so needed to hear that.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Sara, try this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUTXb-ga1fo

Jedi hugs and keep your spirits as high as you can. Your father sounds like an asshole too. I wish I had true Jedi powers to help.

sara
sara
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Datdam,
Thank you, I needed a Jedi hug! Your Jedi cyberwishes do help. And my father…well, that it where it all began–for me, anyway. I am the Behavioral Therapist’s Repetition Compulsive rat! Thanks Wuf, and Jedi hugs backactcha.
And I love. that. song. And I won’t. back. down… 😉

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
10 years ago

I completely agree. I spent years not talking about things because I was ashamed and hurt and feared being seen as part of the problem or as having failed. In short, I believed him when he said I deserved his abuse. When I finally, began to talk, I also began to take action.

Just last night, I called the police when the dysfunctional EX turned up in my driveway, screaming, ranting, and refusing to leave (No reason; he just insists on trying to control me even though more than 2 years have passed since our marriage ended.) I spent years hushing up and capitulating when he spiraled into these kinds of rages. Now, I let the men and women who are paid to handle society’s trolls take care of it. And I don’t dilly-dally or try to negotiate. I don’t spackle for the neighbors anymore either. And wouldn’t you know it, now they call to see if I need help when he stands in my driveway shouting obscenities and yelling about what a horrible person I am. (It’s great to know they don’t believe him . . . but it took me a long time to get to that point.)

Talking is important–to friends, therapists, lawyers, law officers, and Chumplady.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Protective Order, you can get one. Then we shows up doing that shit they take him to jail. Only you know if that’s a safe thing to do, some people are not afraid of jail, but throwing it out there. It works for me.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago

Funny, this post, because I remember saying to my therapist that my ex was so bloody angry with me for spilling about all that I had discovered but I felt like my unconscious made me do it, as some sort of self-preservation thing, because I knew my friends and family would give me holy hell if I went back to him after what I told them. One friend even said to me, when I was talking unicorn shit, that he would lose all respect for me if I actually gave ex any part of me or my life again. He meant it and I know that I would have lost a very important friendship had I not listened. Thankfully his friendship is one of my most important relationships (no worries, folks, he and his hubby are my gay BFFs) and I valued it, at that point, more than ex.

So I agree. Spill. When you see the look on people’s faces it will tell you all you need to know. Cheaters like you to keep things under wraps so that they can maintain their image but fuck that noise. Fly the flag of honesty and let your cheater deal with the fallout. You will find, though, some who think you should do the ‘dignity’ thing, which I often find is really about them not wanting to deal with your distress.

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

My ex didn’t tell his siblings that he’d left me. I was shocked that several months later I had to tell them why I moved out. I had to tell his extended family as well. It made me furious that he was so f’ing weak he couldn’t tell the truth to his family. I resented having to break the news to them myself.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I told his family before he did. He said he would but, naturally, did not. So I did it. They’re all narc/enablers like him, though, so it didn’t take long for me to get the blame. And thus we have no relationship.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Cowards Don’t Face Anything..Nor Do they DEAL WITH ANYTHING. They RUN..it’s what they Do..Run and Fucking HIDE.
I Say GOOD..GET THEE UNDER THY ROCK and FOREVER HOLD YOUR TONGUE…YEP, HUSH UP..ADULTS are SPEAKING AND DEALING WITH LIFE.
All they Do is LIE..so it’s Best they just Suck on a Big Steaming Mug of ” Shutthefuck up “…and Leave The TRUTH to Those that Have it In Em to Tell It.

paula
paula
10 years ago

“Every person who knew, who reacted in horror and compassion, was a guide post on my way out of that darkness.”

I hold this perfect statement up to the universe. This is the first utterence that each newly chumped should hear. God Tracy, you’re so stinkin smart.

Jasper
Jasper
10 years ago

I told. In the words of Joe Friday, I kept it to “Just the facts, Ma’am.” I told the truth. Short and sweet – we divorced because he wanted to be with a whore.

I refused to give someone who hurt me, hurt my children, blew apart my family and destroyed life as we knew it, the gift of my silence.

Nic
Nic
10 years ago

Ugh this post gave me a belly ache. I’m 3 months in from dday, h has done all the right things, the affair was over 6mos ago, he has bent over backwards, the mc, the ic, the books, the phone bills, emails texts, calendars, letter to her, her husband yadda yadda. Too soon to tell if it’s sincere or not, im cautious. He still works with his chippy, and I’ve decided that’s my deal breaker. So I’m moving away, he’s welcome to join us – if it’s true reconciliation, he will make it work. If its bullshit, I’ll be where I want to be. I have no support where I currently live, told my BFF, she winced and said I could have made him happier (wtf? – shes been an ow btw) and broke down over coffee with a neighbor, and she’s been a pal about it all. His family knows (they’ve decided on nc with me – wtf?), but the thought of telling my parents paralyzes me. Not supportive people in the past. Frankly what “stucks” me is my humiliation. I feel like a fool. Today I was in a good place and found a photo in my stream I had taken months ago of a weird email on his phone from his hee haw ho – it plunged me back, I had forgotten about it. They were so stupid frankly, she left a trail and made holes in his stories that Stevie Wonder could drive a truck through. Stevie would also be able to tell what an ugly troll she is too lol. Right after dday I took a deep breath and thought of 4 people who could really help me leave my current city, and sent them emails. It was empowering. They are my strength now, h was mortified they’d been told, but he didn’t blame me – they are a powerful and action oriented group. I did feel bad for the salesgirl at the shop where I returned every gift h gave me. No receipts, I just said loudly, “my asswipe bought me these while he was fucking around, can we make this work?”. She did lol. And I exchanged it all for overpriced makeup and killer boots for when I walk out the front door and back home. I guess I’m still stuck a bit. “when you’re stuck, he doesn’t suck”. But I know he sucks. I think.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I agree that the boots where a beautiful choice. I know when I wear my boots I feel stronger and like I am a bad-ass.

My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
My Knight in Shining Dysfunction
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

I feel this way too about boots!

Actually, and this sounds a little shallow but for me it really worked during early days of trying to rebuild myself– focus on dressing with attitude. It was almost the same as fake it til you make it and gave me an unexpected boost of confidence. I wore boots most of those days.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago

Me too. And my leather jacket was like armor to me…

R
R
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight
Nic
Nic
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

A big factor in my stuckness is the legality of relocating – I may get the “you can’t take my kids”. There’s a border involved. This causes me to fall in a heap in the shower sobbing, even during the few months of attentiveness. I need free legal advice north of the border.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Nic

You’re ” Friend” was an OW..
DUMP HIM AND that Bitch…THEY are More Alike than You Will Ever Be To Them…and You should Tank your Lucky, Dignified Stars for That.
LOVE YOURSELF Enough to Keep the Company of DIGNIFIED People.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

” Your”..Sorry..got pissed off.
You’re a Friend , She Isn’t…Must’ve been Freudian.

Nic
Nic
10 years ago

Her line was “well if he was with someone who blew sunshine up his ass, maybe you should have been blowing sunshine up his ass.”. Ouch. 27 year friendship, she and I met my h at the same time in college. I may need a counseling session just for that. And after that response, I cannot tell my parents – I’m terrified at the hurt they will sweetly stab me with. There seems to be a weird thing about being a stay at home mother – that if you get cheated on it’s your fault – I mean isnt being a full time wife your job??? And you fucking failed at it? It’s all you had to do and you sucked? Now I have to look at reentering the work force after toooo long, health insurance and for the first time aftercare. Because I failed? Oh mylanta.

Diana L
Diana L
10 years ago
Reply to  Nic

Don’t even waste your time thinking about what your ex-friend said. She was an OW!!! She sleeps with other people’s husbands. She has to make up some nonsense to excuse her behavior.

You can find friends who have morals and believe in strange things like loyalty and honesty.

Yes, I agree about the at-home mom thing. There are a lot of ideas out there about how you shouldn’t be one – some people seem to get satisfaction from hearing about an at-home mom ending up broke and in the gutter.

There are also all kinds of ideas about how you are supposed to be an amazing 100% perfect person if you are at home with your kids – like being at home is going to give you tons of free time to keep a perfect house with perfect kids in it. Sometimes this is about people who’ve never stayed home and don’t know what it’s like, sometimes it’s about people who have stayed home and think the way they did things is the only way.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago

How ’bout when you tell your family and they ask what you did to cause it? I know, get another family. Ironically that’s what i thought I was doing when we got married. Looking back there were signs. There are always signs.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

I was Blamed for Something that had NO Blame on Me, BELIEVE Me…
It just made me see Who was worth Trusting, and who Wasn’t. It took Courage to come out and Admit What Happened TO Me…and to be Told I Deserved it…Oh, Believe me..THAT Moment I KNEW I was Alone..so The Answer Was …well ME.. I WAS ALWAYS THE ANSWER. Slam the Door Shut on their ” Permission” about Anything regarding Your BODY, MIND, HEART and SOUL.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

I love “when you’re stuck he doesn’t suck.” When you’re stuck he’s not shmuck.

How many chumps does it take to change a lightbulb?

I can’t answer but I know someone here will 😉

Lake
Lake
10 years ago

Well CL, I am your husband’s poster child! I am still stuck as you know, but I think initially the reason I didn’t say a word was because I believed I wanted to reconcile. I told no one – not a word, not an online forum, nothing for about 4 months. But I was literally drowning in my sorrow. Oh, no one would have known it from the outside. In fact we were so hyperbonding, that people would say they were jealous of our marriage. I finally found online support (although it was pro-reconciliation) and did get to a therapist a couple of times. I found that just being able to say it out loud was a relief – it made it real. I finally did tell one friend who had believed that she and I had just grown apart. She was hurt by my distance, but because I felt I couldn’t tell anyone, I just distanced myself. She was a good friend who listened without judging, but again, her pov was that “he seems to love you so much.” The only other person who knows to this day is a very good friend of OW, who was also a friend of mine. This person had been through two ddays at least on her own, but stayed with her husband. She also was of the perspective that I should stay in my marriage. She has since distanced herself from OW, but her pov is that lots of men cheat, especially high powered career oriented men, and that “we” knew what who we were marrying. So even my support system, although it did allow me to get it all off my chest, were so pro-marriage that the advice I got was to stay. You all here are my reality check, because when I read the stories here, I realize I am not alone in my feelings and that there are people out there who would support me if and