The “What If They’re Really The One” Fear

I had the pleasure last evening to be on the BBC Radio show “After the Watershed” talking about life post-infidelity. (Have a listen!)

One of the presenters, Sarah, had been chumped horribly — had four kids with her cheater, discovered her ex’s double life when the youngest was a toddler, performed a two-year long Pick Me Dance, and then her ex left for his affair partner. The Schmoopies are now married and have quite the social media presence. There are romantic vacations, breakfasts in bed, high thread-count bed sheets, castles, sushi, unicorns… Okay, I don’t know about the sushi and unicorns, but suffice it to say, it’s FABULOUS.

And Sarah asked, “What if she’s really The One? The person he can actually be happy with? And I wasn’t?”

And I replied (I hope not too flippantly, because this is really painful shit) — “Not your problem.”

It doesn’t matter. Will he better for the next one? I doubt it. Your only data point here is he was terrible for YOU. That relationship was unacceptable. You can’t go back in time and make it better. You have to deal with the reality you were dealt — the guy walked out on his wife and four children.

How you interpret that, and this guy’s value as a partner, depends on what YOUR values are. He didn’t leave the relationship ethically. (Double life, faux remorse, cake eating — and do listen for the story of Two Christmas Dinners…) He is a BAD PERSON.

If you jettison the responsibilities of four children, and choose someone without morals or stretch marks — well, maybe Sir, you have met your match. In vapidity and malfeasance.

I’m sure life is easier for him — he’s saddled someone else with all the adult-ing work and the injustice of abandonment. And if you’re not tethered to a conscience, sure, you can enjoy a LOT of sushi.

But real joy, in my opinion, is authentically connecting to people — people worthy of you. Who don’t mindfuck you, or play the Switzerland friend with false equivalencies and forced forgiveness. You want to heal? You need a better tribe.

This guy doesn’t measure up. Who gives a shit about his breakfast? Or the pod person he shares it with.

The world is full of injustice — injustice like raising four kids on your own, while some fuckboy Instagrams croissants — the pain of that is REAL. And most people are weak, and accommodating. Sycophantic. They will like his posts and buy into his All For The Best narrative.

Not a damn thing you can do about it. Focus on your new life. And unfollow Mr. Happy today.

Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

264 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

Happy nice people are not selectively kind.
Manipulative people with double lives and hidden agendas are selectively kind. You and your children get abandoned and he breaks his agreement (wedding vows); she “gets” X, Y, and Z. I think this is the Ultimate Red Flag.

When the real life problems hit Mr. and Mrs. Schmoopie, and they will, that’s when we get to see what these people are made of. On the other hand, they could be in massive denial their whole lives, like my MIL who had the shit beaten out of her regularly by my FIL. They are still together at 92 and 82….she insists they have a wonderful marriage and she “feels so safe with him.” Well, that is NOT going to be me. I want better. And someone in the ether wants better for you too.

I don’t want fake, manipulative nice from a con artist with a record.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago

All the best Velvet Hammer.

CC
CC
5 years ago

“Happy nice people are not selectively kind.
Manipulative people with double lives and hidden agendas are selectively kind. ”

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

I told something similar to the OW, in a conversation I never should have had with her. But essentially when she was telling me how he has changed and realized what he needs to be for his family, I told her that IF he had really changed, I would be seeing those changes. His daughter would be seeing those changes. We’re not. He is still as difficult as possible with even the smallest of information. A person who can leave a spouse during cancer to fend for herself during chemo treatments and not care one bit about her recovery is not a good person. PERIOD.

RoseThorns
RoseThorns
5 years ago
Reply to  CC

The OW is trying to get him to do what’s right for his family? That’s rich, isn’t it?! So how does she spin him cheating with her as being good for his family? … He’s a lying cheating bastard & she know that. Yet, she believes she has the magic wand to turn that frog into a prince. Have fun chasing thatvunicorn sparkle twat – Barf!

CC
CC
5 years ago
Reply to  RoseThorns

He told her that we were done and that the details of the divorce were being worked out. But by family, I think she only means her family because he got her pregnant 5 months after separating with me. She spins his cheating with yes, he made a mistake and that was the wrong way to deal with issues. We all have faults and he should not have to pay penance for his sins for the remainder of his life. He deserves to be happy! Because he was not happy in our marriage.

It’s clear that she thinks she can fix everything wrong with him. She has offered to help with communication with me (which I turned down), she plans many get togethers with his family and hers. To her credit, so far it looks like he has made SOME changes. But they have only been together for a little over a year. My interactions with her have shown her to be very insecure and I think she think she really has him locked because she immediately got pregnant again after birthing their child. I think the stress is irish twins will bring our his true colors.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago
Reply to  CC

AMEN.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

Noun: fraud
|frod|
Intentional deception resulting in injury to another person
A person who makes deceitful pretenses
= fake, faker, imposter, impostor, pretender, pseud, pseudo, role player, sham, shammer
Something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage
= dupery, fraudulence, hoax, humbug, put-on, spoof

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

PS…first mediation consult today….wish me luck Chump Nation…..????

Lost 220# Deadweight
Lost 220# Deadweight
5 years ago

If he’s still with homeslice and you live in a state where you can sue her, mediation can work. In the end I got 100% of the house profit, support that automatically gets deducted from his check and FREEDOM! He didn’t want his emails to her about molding his penis into a vibrator brought up in court. My last email from him: You are the worst human. EVER.
My thoughts…. Back atcha.
I hope it goes well. And when you do go to mediation, talk to someone from your tribe and discuss the settlement before you sign. The people in your corner are great about seeing things for what they are. Don’t negotiate much with a fuckwit

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

My pit bull Super Lawyer goes over everything with a fine tooth comb before I sign off on anything!

ozziechump
ozziechump
5 years ago

Good luck Velvet! I am also close to first mediation.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago
Reply to  ozziechump

The mediation appointment went very well. He is a lawyer and a psychotherapist and said regarding infidelity, that the cheater hopefully would look at why he did it, look WAY back and deep (as in, it’s not ME) and hopefully would learn to be a better partner next time. And STBXH and I agreed to use him for mediation. One miracle down, hopefully more to follow.
The mediator is someone we were each independently referred to…I like to think of this as Higher Power intervention. We shall see.

I gave him back my wedding rings when I came to the appointment. We both had picked out the diamond and I designed the ring. I don’t want it, I don’t want the money from it, and I’m not going to give it to my daughter or remake something out of it. I had chosen platinum because of its strength. Sadly it was not stronger than his desire to cheat. I didn’t do it to be mean or manipulative; it just has no meaning now and he paid for it so he should have it back.

I made him cry.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago

So happy to hear it’s gotten off to a good start and your ex appeared humble. Hope that continues in your favour.

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
5 years ago

Oh Velvet Hammer,
I cried reading your post about your ring.
I totally understand you wanting to give it back to him, so appropriate, it no longer had any meaning.

I never had an engagement ring, we could not afford it.
I had a plain wedding band and because of work I was not allowed to wear it, so I just never wore it. I have no idea where it is.
Sadly, eventhough at DDay my cheater stayed, the ring had and has no meaning.
I can’t even imagine where it could be.

I love to read your posts.
YOU are so strong and Mighty.
I hope everything goes well for you dear Velvet Hammer!
❤️

Martha
Martha
5 years ago

Good luck, Velvet Hammer! 🙂

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

THANK YOU ALL.
Leaving for appointment now.
????

Hahaha
The joke’s on them…
Craigslist hooker thinks he’s an
????
(my new rap)

OR

A Poem

It takes a while
To reconcile
The guy we thought we knew
The guy he is
Is NOT that guy
He’s NOT the guy for you!

EnoughAlready
EnoughAlready
5 years ago

Love the poem, Velvet Hammer!
Good luck today and remember to play Chump Lady’s ‘Trust that they Suck’ in your head as a punctuation mark for absolutely every single sentence that comes out of your fake/imposter/pretender/shammer.
My own personal Shimmy Shammer beat me in court because I underestimated their ability to deceive. (Face palm) Won the judge over with ‘innocent ardent’ tone that was the total antithesis of what I had been receiving.
I took it as a hard lesson learnt that absolute NO CONTACT is the only way and finally, brutally enlightened as to why lawyers exist 🙂

Thrive
Thrive
5 years ago

Sending positive healing “fuck him” prayers your way. I know contradictory statements. In our world contradictions in intent is best in our past! Be well my friend and best of luck! Hugs

Sisu
Sisu
5 years ago

Best of luck!

Absolutely DoneWithNarcs
Absolutely DoneWithNarcs
5 years ago

Best luck, Velvet! Crossing my fingers and toes for you today. I appreciate your input and thoughts on this blog, thank you.

Tempest
Tempest
5 years ago

Good luck, Velvet Hammer! (just know mediation typically does not work with fuckwits–they delay and delay, make ridiculous demands, agree to something and then change the goalposts. Gird yourself for battle.)

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
5 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

They also show up empty handed. At my first metting we were told to each have a business valuation done to bring to second meeting. 4 months to get it done. Ex showed up empty handed. A waste of 4 months. He finally turned it over the week of trial. I hope you have better luck than me, Velvet Hammer!

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
5 years ago

Velvet Hammer, once again you hit it out of the park with your comments. Love your insight!

Sending strength and good thoughts for your mediation. We had two mediations, court required, and both were nightmarish bc X was in full narc rage and self pity mode fueled with his off-label adderall use. It was horrible but I showed up and suited up and pushed onward to my trial where I came out WAY ahead. I was willing to settle for 50/50 on finances— I got 72% at trial and Judge said he wished he could have given me more.

StillMad
StillMad
5 years ago

We are in the same area, but my judge completely f’d me over. I wonder what the difference was…a different county maybe? Now I’m appealing, sigh.
Motherchumper99, if you have time to discuss – my email is k9s@outlook.com. I honestly do not know what to do anymore!

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
5 years ago

I wish I has the strength and courage to go to trial. I was still in horrific pain from the betrayal, directly followed by 15 months supporting my mother through lung cancer and her inevitable death and the divorce fight with the nastiest lawyer in town.

In the end I got 50/50 assets and the down I put on our first martial house, 90% child support (although he takes her close to 50% of the time) , and 33% of his income until he retires — I’ll be 70 by then and get full social security. Plus my retirement assets have 13 years to grow.

I know I am very lucky to be financially secure, but it still pisses me off that he’ll have 2x my income. (My earning potential is long gone after 17 years out of the workforce. I gave up a huge tech career so he could pursue his career and take advantage of the travel perks of a double life). He’s still in a long distance relationship with the OW, a mirror image of himself. Travel, $$$ — she supports her ex and only sees her young children 2 weekends a month.

I’m 57, settled in my new small home, having a strained relationship* with my daughter and wondering what I want to for the next 30 years on this planet — realistically 15 of which are my still “active years.”

I realize I’m in an enviable position as I don’t HAVE to work if I’m willing to adjust my lifestyle. But not lnowing what I want to pursue is absolutely paralyzing.

It’s beem 2.5 years and clearly I’m still working through my shit. Ex says I live my life In the rear view mirror and he feels sorry for me. (Easy to say when you’re the perpetrator and not the abused.)

I got into it with him last week when he flipped out about finances. He accused me of being a naraccist or having borderline personality disorder. Both my grief counselor and therapist had a chuckle over that one! I wish I had the wherewithal to get a mirror and tell him to repeat himself.

* After 1.5 years apart, she is back with him — he’s playing Disneyland Dad and she can do no wrong). Meanwhile, I’m the one who disciplines.

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Giddy Eagle

Giddy,

Abigail Trafford has a series of books about the challenge and joy of re-inventing in your fifties. She really digs into the issues surrounding that age, carrying for elderly parents, dealing with transitions with your children, your body, etc. They may cheer and inspire you: https://www.abigailtrafford.com/

I believe a big, sparkly, and spackle-free chapter is coming. <3

Attie
Attie
5 years ago

Wow yay you Motherchumper, My ex tried to get spousal support from me. I earn just a little more than him. The opposing attorney I noticed had a copy of my doctor’s report detailing my bruises so I don’t think he was looking to help my ex out. The judge just gave him that “WTF”look:

oldcrone
oldcrone
5 years ago

Good luck, Velvet Hammer! Hope that you are feeling mighty today! Hugs to you and yours!

OnMyWayToMeh
OnMyWayToMeh
5 years ago

Good luck! I think we have similar stories…Craigslist cheaters and about a 20 year marriage. Stay strong! You’ve got this.

manna
manna
5 years ago
Reply to  OnMyWayToMeh

Ah, yes me too with the almost 20 year marriage and Craigslist cheaters. When the news came out last March about Craigslist cancelling the personals section due to human trafficking concerns, I considered sending Cheater Cheatson from Cheatsville a “my condolences on your loss” note, but even my sarcasm is too good for him.

JimDavis
JimDavis
5 years ago
Reply to  manna

Lol… there’s now Doublelist.com and others that these cheaters access just as easily as Craigslist. Works just as well.

Sunflower gaze
Sunflower gaze
5 years ago
Reply to  manna

Backpage.com cheater here.

Condelences on your loss note would have been fantantic but as we all know he probably wouldn’t get it.

Susan Devlin
Susan Devlin
5 years ago

You have to wonder what the ow feels about the 4 kids he left, bet she feels it wasn’t the husbands fault. Incidentally my ex wanted to leave me and kids on Xmas day. Apparently kids had toys so he didn’t have to be there!. This was 5 and a half years ago. I was chumped for a drug, alcoholic sometime prostitute, who lied about almost everything. You could say she was doing me a favour, but no thanks for the stis. She was pregnant apparently or maybe another lie. Ex was proud she dumped her kids for him.

TryingForMighty
TryingForMighty
5 years ago

Thanks, Chump Lady. My anniversary is tomorrow, and Mr. Not-So-Mighty has been gone almost 4 months now. He didn’t really try to eat cake (as far as I could tell…I don’t know, I left 2 days after finding out about the affair). I’m struggling big time with this very thing right now; I don’t know if the affair is still going on, last I heard it had ended in early September, but who knows if they’re in back together or in some off-and-on cycle. But the question of “What if he’s happier without me?” translates into “What if the reason he was unhappy was because of me? What if he’s better off without me because I was the problem?” He told me the affair had nothing to do with why he wanted a divorce and he wasn’t in love with me anymore, and unfortunately, I think I’ve bought into that narrative as much as I’ve tried not to.

What if he’s living his best life because he finally got rid of me? I know it’s not supposed to matter, and hopefully some day it won’t, but as I watch the hours tick by to my 5th anniversary tomorrow, it feels like it matters an awful lot.

Also, hi, Chump Nation! Lurker of 3+ months, Poster of the First Time.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
5 years ago

Welcome, thanks for posting. Your questions and doubts are common amongst us. Let me try to alleviate some of your concerns. The problem was NOT you. He said had a problem in your marriage (maybe, cheaters are also liars so who knows that the truth really is) and had several reasonable-ish options on how to resolve that problem–talk to you about it, go to therapy over it, separate from you over it, ask for a divorce because of it, etc. INSTEAD, he chose cheating and then blaming you and then abandoning (which, though hard to see now, is a kind of gift).

Without wading into the whole “we have a divine mandate to NOT fall in love with another while married and to be together forever and ever and ever because: God” discussion, I think it’s safe to say that if you are unhappy in a relationship, you try to resolve the problem respectfully. This is not what happened to you, and I’m sorry about that. But no, you are not the problem, or a blockade to his ALL IMPORTANT HAPPINESS…you were a loyal partner, who married with good intentions, and honored your commitment.

Lost 220# Deadweight
Lost 220# Deadweight
5 years ago

It took me two long years of pain, what ifs and self blame to get to a good place. I spent two years with a bad ass therapist twice a week (and I’m a therapist myself) to process the bullshit. I spent a lot of time journalling…and guess what? It’s not about him anymore. When you can see things for what they are and stop questioning what you thought it should or could have been, you will get better. Grief is hard, grief sucks and it hurts. Create a new life for yourself, try new things. Do not let that POS take a permanent space in your head, he’s not deserving of it.

AlmosttoMeh
AlmosttoMeh
5 years ago

My cheater said THE EXACT SAME thing to me about how his affair had nothing to do with her and everything to do with the fact he has no feelings for me. It’s our 15th anniversary today and I think we are about to settle on the divorce ????. I’m waiting now for his response to my final offer.

And yes, they delay and delay and won’t accept anything unless it is their idea. Mine is out to ruin me and treats me like I’m the one who cheated.

Sending u good mojo, Velvet Hammer!
U got this!!!!!!

inescapable
inescapable
5 years ago
Reply to  AlmosttoMeh

Yes. Same story here.
Out of nowhere he claimed he wanted a divorce. We even had made future plans briefly before that. And he was so unforgiving, blamed me for my issues and lovelessmess, did not want marriage counseling. He just wanted out.

I snooped in his messenger account and found that the OW existed and had also given him an ultimatum to decide between me or her.

I told her husband. He told her. She told my STBX.

He immediately called me from a business trip and offered marriage counseling. After one attempt, he opted out. Completely surprising to me. He became convinced agsin… that the OW had nothing to do with it. It was all me…. I confronted him multiple times of the OW was still in the picture. He said „No“. But then rented a house telling me after the fact.

I filed for divorce. He did not move out, though.

Then I found a secret credit card where he charged all lunch and dinner dates to he was still having with the OW. Plus that he was taking Fridays off work, but pretended to be at work to me.

He just lied. He did not want to reconcile, because the OW was still in the picture… they were just waiting things out. She btw filed for divorce the same week he opted out of counseling. These are not coincidences. They just suck.

Letitsnow
Letitsnow
5 years ago
Reply to  inescapable

Fucking cruel fucktard
So sorry this happened to you
????

Thrive
Thrive
5 years ago

My dear friend, I am so sorry this is happening to you. It is early days and you are still in the early trauma phase which hurts like hell. You are so brave and right on to walk out on this asshole and not play his game. As CL says above, whatever is his deal doesn’t matter. It only matters that you are moving forward to divorce and taking the steps necessary to protect your finances, health, and future. I hope by now you have gayhered your team-lawyer, therapist who gets betrayal, sympathetic friends, frozen assets, forensic accountant. Recovery from betrayal takes time and it gets better. It is important in the early days to swiftly move forward to divorce. Hopefully he has some guilt and will be more amenable to your demands. This time is “life is about learning to dance in the rain”. Cry, cry, cry and move to divorce. No compromise, no second chances, no co tact-leave it to the lawyer. Be kind to yourself! You have been cold-cocked, sucker punched. He is a miserable bastard who cold heartedly abused you and exposed you to health and financial ruin. He is an enemy and he will get his. Protect yourself! We are here. Hugs.

TryingForMighty2?
TryingForMighty2?
5 years ago
Reply to  Thrive

Thank you so much, Thrive. Those are encouraging words to hear, and I definitely need them given what tomorrow is. I do have a lawyer, and I’m letting him handle things. I went no-contact after low contact (only emails about finances) two weeks ago. I also started seeing a therapist 2 weeks ago and decided she was right for me when I asked her if she thought infidelity was abuse. She said, “Yes, absolutely.” It sucks. I’m still somewhat hooked on the hopium that he’ll “wake up” and come running back, but I’m trying not to let that stop me from making smart choices to protect myself financially and legally.

CN, you guys are the best. <3

twiceachump
twiceachump
5 years ago

Yep, I kept thinking he’d come to his senses and then I came to mine!

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago

“:I’m still somewhat hooked on the hopium that he’ll “wake up” and come running back” That’s where I was for a long time after DDay. It never happened. After having read so many stories here I now realize that I am lucky it never happened. I would have taken him back and pick me danced like mad only to be betrayed again I am sure of it. What a miserable existence that would have been. Don’t go there.

Thrive
Thrive
5 years ago

You go girl! Consider this-would you really want to live with someone who can be so unkind and callous TOYOU regardless of his claims of “waking up”. As CL says, is that acceptable to you ever? He has shown his colors, you know who he is at his core-it is black. Kind people don’t treat ANYONE and especially their wife with such disrespect and cruelty. Hugs.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago

Trying for mighty (2)? All I had ever wanted was to love someone and take care of them. My husband, my kids. I just loved them to bits. He destroyed that. He beat the shit out of me and when he started on my kids it was just time to get out. It’s not you. It’s all on him – don’t let that bullshit sway you!

TryingForMighty2?
TryingForMighty2?
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Thank you, Attie! I was the same…it was hard and sucked sometimes (we had problems prior to the affair), but I liked being his wife. I didn’t want to walk away because I loved being married to him. I’m trying to remember that this is not a situation where 2 people drifted apart and fell out of love; he blew up our relationship without a plan or any consideration for me…or even himself really. It seems like it was very much a “want what I want right now” situation without any thought about the future.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago

Good luck honey – the day he walked out was the best day of my life, good luck schmoops

why
why
5 years ago

Hi and welcome, Trying! I’ve been lurking for about as long and also just started posting (two days ago now). I have a lot of similar questions, but the one thing I DON’T question is whether the affair had anything to do with it. In his mind, he saw an opportunity to “trade up” and he took it. People around here will say that they always trade down, and on the surface I suppose it’s true (OW is married, a known cheater, an alcoholic, and randomly mean), but he’s having such a good time so it does feel like he traded up. I read the Trust That They Suck post a lot to remind myself of the third point, which is something like, you’re so upset in part because you’ve convinced yourself that this is the best you can do. You can absolutely do better than someone who felt like you were something he could trade. And I’m sure he was actually living his best life with you. I know for sure that I was the best thing that ever happened to my ex. But they shift the goalposts without telling you. Still unsure what to make of it all, so I’ll stop there. But don’t believe any of his excuses and trust your gut.

Valerie
Valerie
5 years ago
Reply to  why

Water seeks it’s own level, hon. He definitely traded down.

TryingForMighty2?
TryingForMighty2?
5 years ago
Reply to  why

Thanks, Why. It’s so painful to think I was so lacking that he’d prefer to blow up his life, lose friends, lose his financial security, and lose his dogs than be with me. I mean, that’s what it means, right? If he didn’t come back after the affair was over, it MUST mean whatever he’s got going for him now is better than what he had with me. Part of me realizes that isn’t true, but I’ve been struggling with it HARD the last few weeks.

inescapable
inescapable
5 years ago

It can mean that he does not want to come back, because you hold him accountable and now see behind the facade.

My cheater feels this way: now that I do not admire him and demanded change, he does not want to come back. He actually said to me: „You now think so badly of me, I cannot subject myself to that. You have always attacked me and my personally, there are deep down anger issues you have with me.“
So, it is not the cheating and lying and risking my health that is causing the marriage break down, according to him it is, because I have deep down issues… it is amusing how he takes the way my right to be angry and demand change. And treats this as if I was making unreasonable requests.

Letitsnow
Letitsnow
5 years ago
Reply to  inescapable

Yup I remember that mess
“You now cannot love me unconditionally
I need to be loved unconditionally”
Dumbfuck silly wabbit
Love IS conditional

ozziechump
ozziechump
5 years ago

Just remember this is not a reflection on you! The process of discovery often means the only action that they see they can take is to go forward. Remember they are character disordered and have zero capacity for remorse reflection guilt or responsibility. They behave like irrational amygdala driven teenagers with a dick driven destiny! You are asking decency of indecency; consideration of devalue. They know they are wrong but need to glorify their shit actions with spurious claims to happiness. Decency has too many letters for them to spell and does not roll off their tongue like cheat!

champchump
champchump
5 years ago

TFM2, he didn’t come back after the affair was over does NOT mean he didn’t have it good with you. It means that you know exactly who he is—a cheater and a liar. It’s painful for him to be with someone who knows exactly how deplorable he is, because it reminds him he IS deplorable. He’d rather go look for someone else he can charm and fool, who will put him on a pedestal at least temporarily.

Doingme
Doingme
5 years ago

TFM2

What if she’s the ‘one’?
Well no, there was Karen, Linda , Cheryl, Sharon …The list goes on. Cheating is the tip of the disordered’s iceberg.

No need to take any responsibility for actions taken by a cheater. Cheating requires shitty character; it takes the ability to lie, con, expose a partner to STD’S, and commit financial rape. That’s called agency. And they are all in fact serially cheating every time they deceive.

Damn, they live for cake.

And ‘the one’ is where you drop them off once you pick yourself. Clapping loudly for the ONE who won the serial cheating loser who wets the bed, can’t hear, and needs a driver cause he drinks in excess. Then there’s itty bitty dick, faking orgasms while waiting for the pay day…he’s broke; ain’t gonna happen. Always, looking.

There’s only one person worthy of living better; it’s the chump. Head high, baby steps and Tuesday will come. Pick yourself. It works.

Letitsnow
Letitsnow
5 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

THAT

Thrive
Thrive
5 years ago

Absolutely not. That is not what it means that he did not come back. He is flawed and you don’t want him back. You are not the unworthy one here he is. He is not worthy of your desire. Refocus on what you can do to make yourself happy and it does not include being with someone who has abused you.

Thrive
Thrive
5 years ago
Reply to  why

Why, good for you! You have a good attitude! There is only one to make of this-your husband is a selfish, ego-driven, narcissistic dick-centered asshole. Keep moving forward as you are. You are mighty. I will tell you that an alcoholic Cheating OW is a dangerous bitch. It is critical to quickly move to divorce. We don’t know the influence the OW has but we do know it is not in our best interest. As I said before get your divorce warrior team together and battle on. We are here. Hugs!

Tempest
Tempest
5 years ago

TFM–none of us are perfect, and few of us enter relationships (especially early in life) as perfect partners. But that goes for our Xs and STBXs, too. And yet we didn’t cheat on them.

My analogy has always been that marriage is like a car; each partner is bound to put a few scratches in the paint, a few dings in the fender. But cheating takes that car, drives it headlong into a tree and then pushes it off a high cliff. Car is totaled.

The dings and dents didn’t cause the cheater to run it headlong into a tree (who ruins a car over dings?), but once they have pushed that car over the cliff, car is kaput.

TryingForMighty2?
TryingForMighty2?
5 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Agreed, Tempest. Great analogy!

unexpectedchumpiness
unexpectedchumpiness
5 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

This is exactly it!

unexpectedchumpiness
unexpectedchumpiness
5 years ago

And by the way, dents and dings and banged up bumpers can always be brought into the repair shop (marriage counseling, personal counseling, personal growth courses) and be fixed or at least made way better. But it’s really hard to do AFTER the car has been driven off a cliff and obliterated to the point of no return.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago

Yep…all around.

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
5 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Perfect analogy, @Tempest!

AwakeningDreamer
AwakeningDreamer
5 years ago

TFM, welcome 🙂 I’m a rare poster here and in the forums but I’ve been a silent participant since 2015.

You’ve hit the nail on the head with your point: ‘what If the problem was me?’ And to be realistic: there were problems in my behaviour, choices and actions. Ive made an effort to reflect and change the things about myself that I felt weren’t healthy.
On the other hand, I wasn’t actively sabotaging my relationship as wankhandle was, I didn’t lie or deceive him, I didn’t steal from him, I didn’t stop interacting with him in any meaningful way: those things are on him, and arguably much larger contributing factors to the decline of our day to day lives together – those choices were his and shape his character.

It’s hard not to think the problem may have been me but if I weigh it up, my problematic behaviours pale in comparison to his continuous neglect and sabotage.

Spoonriver
Spoonriver
5 years ago

AwakeningDreamer you can’t know how if you made mistakes when you don’t have all the information. My only mistake was staying too long and letting him wear me down. Some days I can’t wait to have the opportunity for a relationship with a noncheater – I’d like to know what that feels like.

Mitz
Mitz
5 years ago

We don’t have to be perfect to be lovable or have someone be loyal to us. We can have good days and bad days, be reasonable, and unreasonable, at times. If we both want the relationship to work we can work it out in an adult way. Loyalty, honesty, and tolerance are the building blocks.

Skunkcabbage
Skunkcabbage
5 years ago

This!! I now know a lot of the negative behaviors that I was continually berated about were created as a direct response to the mental abuse I was receiving. 3 years out I have embraced working on me and creating stability and contentment in my life. The NarcX? He’s busy shopping the dating sites, having bad encounters that steal his money and/or stand him up, and then whining on social media about how people are mean to him when he’s such saint.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago
Reply to  Skunkcabbage

Skunkcabbage – Glad you said that. I’m still trying to figure out how much of the way I acted out in the marriage is really the way that I am (and I need to work on that because that is not how I want to be) and how much of it was reactionary because of the situation.

But hey. If I’m working on figuring that out then at least I am working on skeining myself rather than wasting my time skeining my STBXH. Time much better well spent.

inescapable
inescapable
5 years ago
Reply to  OptionNoMore

I know that I reacted a lot to the gaslighting. He simply ignored my needs. He simple devalued me as a person.

Here is an example of how he tortured me. He would come up to me while I was working on the computer.
H: can I press a key
Me: no
H: just a key, please
Me: no, please stop, I am busy
H: just a key, please
Me angry: no
H: come on, just a key, let me press it
Me yelling: stop it, I need to work!!!!

And then we would get into a fighting and shouting match, because I had overreacted. He was just being cute and fun. These situations happened multiple times. In various scenarios.
I believed him that I was overreacting and just could not see the humor.

I am so ashamed that I let him do this and didn’t leave earlier.

I was not perfect. I yelled a lot, but most of it was a reaction.

eirene
eirene
5 years ago
Reply to  inescapable

Wow, this just reminded me of how my ExH did that same exact thing. Now I’m getting tense just thinking about his relentless behavior, asking me the same thing over and over and over until I blew. Boy, am I happy to have gotten away from that. So sorry that you endured that too, imescapable.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  eirene

My ex’ idea of “cute and fun” was to make a dive at my knees to take my legs out from under me, or to “pistol whip” my backside with a rolled up towel! God the more I think about it it tenses me up and he’s been gone 9 years. My doctor told me that if I didn’t get away from him my body would react from all those years of stress (she meant cancer I guess). Luckily not so far but I still worry about this seething hate I have for him. What it robbed that happy young girl of. I don’t want to hate any more – I just want to “nothing” him. I guess I really did have PTSD – and here’s me thinking it was only from combat zones!

inescapable
inescapable
5 years ago
Reply to  eirene

It is a play using my actual name: Ines and then capable … to me it means: nothing is inescapable, because I am capable 😉

eirene
eirene
5 years ago
Reply to  eirene

iNescapable, that is. Freudian slip? I did escape with my sanity intact even though he was apparently trying to drive me bonkers with his slow water torture form of abuse.

CC
CC
5 years ago
Reply to  OptionNoMore

I think how we react to any stressor, abuse, etc. IS the way we are. It is how we instinctually react. I’m putting my effort to understand why I react the way I do and learn how to react in a healthier way.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

Cheating in response to marriage problems or “something missing” in your marriage is like embezzling because money is missing in your wallet.

END OF STORY.

Hopeful Cynic
Hopeful Cynic
5 years ago

Genius. Simple genius.

NotMyFault
NotMyFault
5 years ago

Perfect!

I am the Chump.
I am the Chump.
5 years ago
Reply to  NotMyFault

Yup. The seething lying, anger and resentment, and never owning up to it or being man enough to discuss it, work through it, or leave. Just using those feelings as wall for me to feel guilty about because he made it clear I ruined his life. Then, he used all of that as the excuse to cheat. He left for the GF, only after I forced the issue, and guess what? It didn’t work out. Shocking. And he is still angry and resentful-only now because I am not held captive by his emotions and can see what a sad man he actually is.

Current Chump
Current Chump
5 years ago

OMG-THIS BY THOUSANDS!!
“The seething lying, anger and resentment, and never owning up to it or being man enough to discuss it, work through it, or leave”.

My now deceased cheater’s M.O.
They really do all operate from the same crappy handbook

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago

You summed it up nicely. I wasn’t perfect but my imperfect is nothing compared to his intentional devalue, betrayal and discard over that imperfect. Even in the case of things I may have inadvertently done to make him feel bad, he never made any attempt to understand my motivations behind anything I said for did or to explain why something might have bothered him. He just perceived everything in the most negative way he could and I had no idea.

RoseThorns
RoseThorns
5 years ago

YES! YES! YES! … I take full responsibility for my (actual) flaws & mistakes. None of those warranted being lied to, gaslighted, cheated on, & him living a secret double life for years! Nothing I did or didn’t do was that horrible to deserve any of that.

Some of the reasons he gave for cheating & eventually leaving were ridiculus! Seriously, things like I burnt something in the oven. Other reasons were so selfish. Like he didn’t want to be with someone with health issues (I had become disabled & unable to work).

Thing is, he had never discussed any of the many reasons he gave for cheating & leaving with me. (Apparent in hind sight, he just passively aggressively resented me for them.) Had he discussed things with me and let me know what he was thinking, I would of been able to see how utterly f’ed up his thinking was/is! I would of realised years earlier that I had nothing to work with & would of ended the home of a marriage. But then, most likely he knew that which is why he never said anything. Coward!

CC
CC
5 years ago

I was just thinking about this this morning. I still receive emails from the Gottman Institute on marriage and today’s dealt with the goal of conflict.

I mistakingly thought the goal of conflict was resolution. And maybe that should be the goal most of the time, but it is not the only healthy option. The other goal is understanding. That was something that my ex never once tried to do. He never tried to understand my point of view. Likewise, he never helped me to understand his point of view or even if I had inadvertently done something that hurt him. I think because everything he did was intentional, he assumed everything I did was and because of that looked at everything with a negative point of view.

Like you said, I was also imperfect. But my imperfect was nothing compared to his intentional devalue, betrayal and discard.

inescapable
inescapable
5 years ago

Yes. Exactly this.
Exactly describing my feeling. Anything I did was perceived in the most negative way. When he found me reading a book on relationships, he saw this as me attacking him. And accuses me of having read the book for him to see, so he would feel bad.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago
Reply to  inescapable

Last October, we attended a couple’s therapy weekend away. During a break, the counsellor played some music and the song, “Say Something I’m Giving Up on You, ” by a A Great Big World. I remember the summer this song was out in 2014. I was so frustrated by my husband. He was refusing requests for marriage counselling or any other idea I would present, and I was shutting down. I remember being in the car with him when this song came on the radio, and I was psychically yelling at him to listen to this song and turn to me. I brought this up to the counsellor and she asked me to share this with the group when we all came back together. She used it as an example of the different ways that we are all trying to reach out to one another. My husband’s response: “Well what I hear in that song is that she can’t accept me for who I am?”

Really? Are you daft? How do you get that from these lyrics?

Say something, I’m giving up on you
I’ll be the one, if you want me to
Anywhere, I would’ve followed you
Say something, I’m giving up on you
And I am feeling so small
It was over my head
I know nothing at all
And I will stumble and fall
I’m still learning to love
Just starting to crawl
Say something, I’m giving up on you
I’m sorry that I couldn’t get to you
Anywhere, I would’ve followed you
Say something, I’m giving up on you
And I will swallow my pride
You’re the one that I love
And I’m saying goodbye
Say something, I’m giving up on you
And I’m sorry that I couldn’t get to you
And anywhere, I would have followed you
Oh, oh, oh, oh say something, I’m giving up on you

Chumplanta
Chumplanta
5 years ago
Reply to  OptionNoMore

Some days I listen to that song 30 times in a row.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago
Reply to  Chumplanta

Brilliant!

Chumplanta
Chumplanta
5 years ago
Reply to  Chumplanta

Then when I’m ready I let the next song on the album play, “You’ll Be Okay.”

You’ll be okay
The sun will rise
To better days

And change will come
It’s on it’s way
Just close your eyes
And let it rain

Just look inside
You know the way
Let it go
Fly away
And say goodbye
To yesterday

Sunflower gaze
Sunflower gaze
5 years ago

Thank you for saying that Awakening Dreamer.
I wasn’t perfect and of course I made mistakes but nothing that some honest conversation and making an effort to be present and spend time together couldn’t have solved.
The lying, the withholding of affection, the hostility, the seething anger and resentment that I could see and feel around him: all of that were on him.
He seemed happy with my imperfections and I was mostly happy with his until he pulled away from me and retreated to porn and hooker distractions.
I lost him when I made clear that I wouldn’t continue in our relationship if we didn’t have children. He “gave in” because he didn’t want to lose me. What he actually did was seethe with resentment for “forcing” him into something he didn’t want. (I didn’t force him, we agreed but as you all know that’s his narrative.)
He manipulated me into staying with him when he know I wanted a family and he didn’t and when he couldn’t control me any longer he sabotaged and bailed (emotionally) on the relationship.
We’re still pretending to be together but I’m trying to get out. Now his narrative is that he wanted children and I couldn’t have them so we stopped trying. (I want to kick his teeth in every time he puts on that sad sausage routine.)
He destroyed his own life with his selfishness and destroyed mine in the process because he chose to. I just went along for the ride because I bought into who he pretended to be. I still, even after all that he’s done, look at him and can’t believe he is the same person I thought he was. I am STILL in shock. I don’t think I’ll ever get over that.

Chumpful
Chumpful
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

Sunflower Gaze, I hear you and I understand the terrible internal confusion of trying to reconcile the man you loved with the cold, resentful, manipulative person you now live with. Three years out from separation, I still can’t get my head around that, but with the help of a great psychologist, I am working on healing and valuing the hurt me and trying to let go of understanding the why. Seeing these two sides of your man is a mighty step on your part, even if you are not quite ready yet to physically separate. And when it is time, it will be so much better, believe me. While I was really scared to do that, fearing I would have no-one to rely on, I realised I had not been able to rely on him for years anyway. I also found I could rely on myself much more when I wasn’t being constantly undermined and undervalued by my ex. And the Chump Nation has your back.

Sunflower gaze
Sunflower gaze
5 years ago
Reply to  Chumpful

Thank you Chumpful and RoseThorns.
I’ve visited a lawyer and they’re ready to go once I give the go ahead but I haven’t.
He makes me feel like he’ll die if I leave him and I feel guilty. Hope and denial keep me here. They’re definitely not as powerful as they once were but damn I go around in circles trying to plan my escape. Then I feel like a horrible person if I leave without telling him why. If I give him an explanation then he’ll guilt trip me into staying some more. And on, and on, and on until I guess he decides to leave or breaks me down into compliance for good.
I know I need to stop listening to him and looking at his actions but I still– even if I don’t believe it necessarily– buy into his sad sausage routine.
I think about him not being so bad for the most part but I can’t get over the hookers. I don’t have definitive proof that anything ever happened with them but I have suspicions. Who sexts with prostitutes all day long and not finally break down and call one day? I haven’t had sex with him since January it’s only a matter of time.
I need to just tell the whole story. I’ll go into the forums.

Sebhai
Sebhai
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

Leave now

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

Sunflower

I couldn’t have written it any better… details vary, but the feelings are the same… my mind still shuts down every time I’m trying to merge two images of my h ( his secret double life self and the married man)
I learned by now that forcing myself into stuff doesn’t help… gentle, nice treatment with focus on my needs and healing is a key…. I’m starting looking at myself through different glasses, not the skewed, disorder way I was being told I was…
Keep going Sunflower…. maybe in all the madness, the fact that we will come to conclusion that the only reliable source of safety is within us- will lift the weight and stress of looking for it outside?
Who knows

Sunflower gaze
Sunflower gaze
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Thank you so much for that Elsa.
I struggle so, so much with trusting that they suck. I need to take care of me more.
I struggle with leaving physically. I think I’ve already left emotionally but leaving this reality is so daunting to me.
I think every single one of the people here who have left their entire lives, WITH children no less, are super heroes to me.

RoseThorns
RoseThorns
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

@sunflower gaze; Maybe it would help if you look at leaving as getting ahead of his twisted game of mindfucking for once. If you don’t show him your cards (get financials, an attorney, etc), you will have the upper hand for once. Trust me that you will also take a lot of your power back and feel mighty by doing that.

Don’t be like me & know that your husband and marriage sucks & that you deserve better but continue to stay & keep thinking maybe one more puff from the hopium pipe will be the one that changes things. Not. Gonna. Happen. I waited & actually felt half blindsided when he walked out. (How that happened In still not sure, other than hope & denial are powerful.) I’m still struggling years later with knowing that I should of had enough love for myself to GTFO. I’m positive today if I had done that it would of made a huge difference for me & my self esteem. Instead, by not leaving & staying in that horrible situation, I lost all respect for myself. Do not be me, please! You have a chance to take the reins. USE IT!!!

Langele
Langele
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

The important thing that I learned is that when I am physically present with the abuser or I spend my thoughts on the abuser that I am a prisoner of his mind Fuckery and I don’t heal or get better or get perspective.

No contact is medicine for the malady which is the effect of living with someone who abuses us.

And abuse it is.

Get out. Zero contact. Education. Therapy. Get on with your life.
Leave him in the rearview.

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

What I like about CL is that there is lots of support and not much of judgment… for those who still live with and hope- the place where the pain, confusion and mindfuckery is understood,
for the chumps on the way out- understanding of difficulty to not only make decision, but also to execute it…
For the chumps already divorced- understanding of baring the consequences and dealing with a world – solo

CL is not an easy pill to swallow….when fog is thick and we don’t even know our name, not to mention we are almost in a non-existing phase ( gaslighting and abuse are powerful) of our life… it’s to raw, to harsh, to much to handle…. but when the fog lifts a little bit- it’s a life saving place… especially for the chumps with avery limited/ no support system

I still did not figure out how to join the forum ????‍♀️

SheChump
SheChump
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Elsa – ‘CL is not an easy pill to swallow….when fog is thick and we don’t even know our name, ..’

When I first heard that the X had probably been planning this a long time and already had his foot out the door, and most likely – didn’t love me anymore.

The truth hit like a dart between the eyes.
(I thought our marriage was GREAT!)
It was a super depressing time and has taken me almost 5 years to figure it out. Nobody could do the destruction they do if they actually love you.

The Forum can be seen at the very top of C/L page. 5 options to the right, the very far right one is Register. The one to the left of it is Login – which you’ll use after you register. It’s a great forum so hope you get in.

Adelante
Adelante
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Go up to the far right of your screen where it says “Register.” Click there, and register. After you do that, you can click on the word “LogIn” right next to it. Once you log in, you’ll see “Forums” appear to the right, and a little note will appear under Chump Lady’s “head” up top that says, “Howdy, [“yourname”]. Just click on the “Forums” and you’re in.

TryingForMighty
TryingForMighty
5 years ago

Thanks, AD. I too know I had some problematic behaviors that weren’t the best for a healthy marriage, but I also don’t know how much they actually bothered him. Because he never really told me what I could do more or less of to help him feel loved and appreciated. I got hints and insinuations, especially around how “controlling” he thought I could be – except my “controlling” was in reaction to his persistent lying, stonewalling, and general disinterest in me when he wasn’t in need of kibbles. In hindsight, the healthy thing to do would have been to leave rather than check up on him, but at the time, I really wanted our marriage to work and that was something I could do to keep my sanity without his cooperation.

OptionNoMore
OptionNoMore
5 years ago

Also similar to my experience. If he had been more plugged in and taken more initiative, I wouldn’t have taking on more and more so that it appeared I was in control of everything by the time it was all done. How about talking to me about how you feel? How you wish things to be? What you need from me?

The only time he would say anything was in reaction to me and it was always that he didn’t want to do something or that I have to let things be. Well hard to do that when I’m knee-deep in things that need to get done. And, not addressing issues is not in my DNA. I don’t do sticking my head in the sand very well.

In the end, I basically did stick my head in the sand, waiting for him to finish the degree that I was supporting him through, hoping that he would turn things around when he was done the stress of studying and was working at a better job. Figured that we’d have some money to have some fun again and get things fixed around the house and vacation somewhere nice. Instead he spent the last year of school and the first year of working having emotional and physical affairs with other women.

Oh yeah, there were things I did wrong in the marriage – typical overworked professional mom stuff who is stressed out trying to be all things to all people – needing to be romanced to feel her mojo and not getting romanced because asking for it put off her husband. I complained sometimes. I railed at him sometimes. And, I’m sure it appeared that I could never be happy.

In my support group for separated and divorced Catholics, we just started working on sifting through guilt and blame. My “assignment” for the week is to write out all the things I blame myself for and then figure out what is realistic guilt (those things that you know you need to work on yourself) and what is unrealistic/unreasonable guilt. Figuring out what is unrealistic goes in hand with figuring out what your spouse blamed you for (and other foo reasons) and filtering that out. It’s been an interesting exercise so far, and one that I think everyone should do.

For example:
Realistic: I blame myself for not having managed stress better and take ownership of my actions which were often very reactionary against my husband (Solution: work on prioritizing tasks better, ask for help more often, self-care better and develop positive strategies to cope)

Unreasonable: I do not blame myself for “emasculating” my husband. I did not emasculate him. I supported him through two layoffs and three years of university – amounting to three career changes in less than eleven years. He failed to assert himself and take more initiative. He failed to communicate his feelings to me. That is his problem to resolve.

I think that many of our issues with fearing that the OW is better stems from a lot of unreasonable guilt we carry. Time to offload that guilt and realize that if the OW/OM is “better” it’s only that they are the trade down for your spouse’s lower value self.

Chumplanta
Chumplanta
5 years ago
Reply to  OptionNoMore

I have a really big problem with someone who thinks they are entitled to have their needs met, but can’t be bothered to meet their partner’s needs.

That’s just some whiny-ass, immature shit right there.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago

I had similar, not my reactions to his cheating because I didn’t know about that but my reactions to his devalue, being generally prickly towards me and the kids and acting like he was embarrassed by me. these things had me retreating and generally leaving him alone so as not to set him off. He then complained that I wasn’t giving him enough attention and he didn’t feel loved.

He also complained that I didn’t make enough money and then complained when I tried to work more hours to get ahead. He complained that I didn’t do laundry right so he would do it and then he complained that he had to do all of the laundry. There were so many things I did or didn’t do in direct reaction to his stated needs/wants that he later ended up resenting. Initially I thought I must just be completely incompetent to have misread his intent so badly, but now I realize that it was just him being amorphous.

little signs
little signs
5 years ago

Yes! All of this! I left him alone, looked for places to go that he wouldn’t want to go, took the kids out of the house, etc etc all to keep from setting him off. There was always a price to pay for just breathing. It might be pouting, bitching, deciding not to eat whatever I made for dinner. Never mind all the other shady shit he was doing, and whom he was doing it with…His obsession with his phone and who was on it. When he left, he said I pushed him away and he needed intimacy. Hell yes, I pushed him away. He was a self centered asshole that thought our marriage should revolve around his pencil dick.

champchump
champchump
5 years ago

Chumpinrecovery, this is a PERFECT description of life with the disordered. Except it wasn’t him being amorphous, it was him being entitled, inconsistent, self centered, and an all-round asshole.

I’m SO glad to be single as well!

Attie
Attie
5 years ago

God god I’m so glad to be single

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

I wish I could spell!

RoseThorns
RoseThorns
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

You crack me up Attie! Thanks for the much needed smile.

inescapable
inescapable
5 years ago

Yes. This also my experience. He treated my reactions to his behavior as me being controlling and restricting. He really never addressed his actions in the first place. He felt any request of mine was unreasonable. The sane and responsible thing for me would have been for me to leave… I had the real stupid idea that I could change him and our unhealthy dynamics.

Trying for Mighty
Trying for Mighty
5 years ago

Hey,
you have taken my screen name.
Sincerely, Trying for Mighty.

TryingForMighty
TryingForMighty
5 years ago

Oh jeez! I’m sorry, it wasn’t intentional! Let’s try together?! 🙂

Trying for Mighty/Adelante
Trying for Mighty/Adelante
5 years ago

I’m actually surprised the software supports multiple users with the same name. I don’t want to share it, because I’m told some of my story. But you know what? You can have it. I chose it when I first signed on and was still living with my stbx, hoping I would find the “mighty” to leave. Well, I did, and my court date for the divorce is next week.
So I’ll change mine, if the site lets me, to “Adelante,” with all its wonderful multiple meanings.

TryingForMighty2?
TryingForMighty2?
5 years ago

Are you sure? I was thinking I could do “Hoping for Mighty” or “Working for Mighty.”

Adelante
Adelante
5 years ago

‘S’all good, don’t worry.
You take the name, and I hope it works as well for you as it did for me!

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
5 years ago
Reply to  Adelante

Kudos to 2 Lovely Chumps working it out, ( over choosing the same name)
Both of you ladies exemplify kindness, integrity and good judgement.
Then again, that is what CN is all about, respect, integrity and kindness.
You got it Chumps!!

al
al
5 years ago
Reply to  Adelante

This exchange gives me hope for humanity 🙂

FoolMeOnce
FoolMeOnce
5 years ago
Reply to  Adelante

You both are wonderful 🙂

Lulutoo
Lulutoo
5 years ago

How about changing it to just ‘Mighty’? Since you aren’t trying anymore! (Or ‘Just Mighty’–you know, like ‘Just Jack.’ ????

Absolutely DoneWithNarcs
Absolutely DoneWithNarcs
5 years ago

Adelante,
Leaving is truly the hardest step. You DID it, and are therefore very mighty! May you enjoy all that comes from getting away from an unloving marriage. (It’s been decades for me and I still recall the big relief after taking years to leave a controlling, selfish spouse. Best life decision I ever made.)

Onward and upward!

Sunflower gaze
Sunflower gaze
5 years ago

Good choice Adelante!

Muchas Felicidades!!

Adelante
Adelante
5 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower gaze

Gracias! Y tu tambien.

Sunflower gaze
Sunflower gaze
5 years ago

You can be Trying for Mighty 2……lol

RealMonkeyLove
RealMonkeyLove
5 years ago

Great to hear your voice on the radio – keep up the good work????????

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

Mighty,

NICE GUYS DON’T LIE AND CHEAT.

LIARS AND CHEATERS DON’T DO HAPPY.

HAPPY PEOPLE DON’T HURT OTHERS.

Wormfree2017
Wormfree2017
5 years ago

And happy people don’t spend a lot of time on social media because they’re out living their joyful lives!

StartofSomethingGood
StartofSomethingGood
5 years ago

Really needed this today. Thank you.

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
5 years ago

I think the lived experience of pretty much everyone on this blog – and that is a HUGE sample – is that:

1) The honeymoon phase with ex and Schmoopie is just that, with a good dose of image management thrown in. It goes to shit one way or another because they are awful people.

2) Cheaters never trade up.

So yes – leave a cheater, gain a life.

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago
Reply to  Lola Granola

Lola

I’m having issue with a “ trade up” part…
My h could easily find an educated, younger, pretty woman… I’m not talking about a skanky lying human being, but nice lady.
He would charm the family, no issues there….
I think trading down would be a nice way to see him in, but I think in my case- it would be new model, with extra features and few more buttons…
????

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

My ex could probably have traded up if he had divorced me first but he didn’t. That meant he was limited to a pool of sluts who are willing to fuck other people’s husbands and tear families apart for personal gain. In his case he picked one willing to cheat on her husband and tear her own family apart too. Hardly an upgrade. Maybe he picked the best of that pool, but that pool is pretty shallow and I know I am better than that. If they broke up and he tried again as a fully single adult, then maybe he could trade up and I might even like the woman, but he’s too chicken to do that. He would have to risk being alone and he doesn’t have the balls to face the very situation he thrust me into.

Look at it this way, your ex didn’t trade up, but he gave you the opportunity to trade up.

chumpmotherof3
chumpmotherof3
5 years ago

Chumpinrecovery
I love this so much! I am struggling right now. My cheater is with his AP that is 17 years younger. I just turned 50 and he’s with someone who is 34. She was married also with two younger kids. I have met her (before I knew about the affair) and she doesn’t seem like a skank. She seemed like a normal higher class person. And now I have that in my head that he traded up and she is somehow better than me. I hate this soooo much! Why do they do this to us? I cried for nine months straight. It’s been 11 months now and I’m finally not crying all day every day. We own a business together so I can’t go no contact. We have 3 kids, youngest just turned 15. He destroyed our family and doesn’t try to spend time with the kids. The whole situation is like a freaking nightmare. I’m getting to where I don’t care as much but haven’t taken any steps for a divorce yet. He moved out last January three weeks after d-day

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago
Reply to  chumpmotherof3

She left her husband for some old fart who cheats on his wife and doesn’t spend time with his kids? That right there tells you what a loser she is. She is clearly stupid as well as lacking in morals and decency.

Now you have a chance to trade up for someone who isn’t a shallow, selfish, short sighted fool. No guarantee, but if you don’t divorce the fuckwit, you will be passing up on at least the possibility of doing better. Heck, even being single is better than being stuck with a selfish dimwit.

chumpmotherof3
chumpmotherof3
5 years ago

Yes!! I am feeling so much more in control today. And they deserve each other. I deserve so much more. I deserve someone who is kind, and passionate and can hold a conversation about other things than roofs. I deserve someone who looks me in the eye and connects with my soul. I deserve someone who loves my sense of humor and wants to hang out with me just because they like my company.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
5 years ago
Reply to  chumpmotherof3

You deserve a divorce, a good settlement, and a fresh start. You should give that gift to yourself ASAP and get out of your limbo. I wish I had acted sooner cause now that I’m almost through the process I am the happiest I’ve been in years.

It’s irrelevant what your ex deserves or has or will get. What you know is that he does not deserve you…or the affection and attention of your shared children. That much is clear.

Chumptopia
Chumptopia
5 years ago

My experience with most men is that they can’t be alone for more than nine minutes and jump from one relationship to another at warp speed. After I figured out what my cheater XH really was I did a timeline of his life and determined he was NEVER single. He went from woman to woman to woman. If he wasn’t fucking around on one of them, he was fucking some other man’s wife or girlfriend. No, he sure never had the balls to face the situation that he put every woman who ever tried to love him in.
And the really messed up thing? Him and schmoopie still seem to be going strong and he’s as happy as a pig in shit. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING bothers that guy…as long as he has a schmoops beside him.

Doingme
Doingme
5 years ago
Reply to  Chumptopia

And the harsh reality is they don’t care. I could sit at a bar picking up men on a nightly basis, cross my fingers and my toes praying a knight in shining armour says the magic words after having sex in a cheap hotel.

That’s the better they achieve. The needy who have not an ounce of class or integrity. Two cheaters are in fact equal in their lack of a moral compass.

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
5 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Ok, so time for a master class in the Lola Doctrine on why cheaters never trade up!

Remember: it’s not about looks or teeth or tit size. It’s about SHITTY CHARACTER.

Water finds its own level.

https://www.chumplady.com/2018/05/cheaters-never-trade-up-the-lola-doctrine/

Doingme
Doingme
5 years ago
Reply to  Lola Granola

Thanks Lola, the Doctrin stsnds!

unexpectedchumpiness
unexpectedchumpiness
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Mine also can trade “up” very easily. He’s a good looking guy with a great job, fun and funny. However, the same cracks in your relationship will also rear their ugly head in his new “up” relationship. She’s either going to say fuck that and he will loose her specialness or it will most likely cause the same problems in their relationship as it caused in yours. And if he’s not willing to work on himself, as most cheaters aren’t, then these problems will rear their ugly head again….in time.

And here’s the next part…she will age. She will sag. She will also have kids and have stretch marks and c-section scars and then she’ll be just like you….and he’ll be unhappy again. Poor sausage.

It’s called escapism. Thats how disordered people solve their “problems”.

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago

Unexpected…

What if the aging won’t be that visible,because the age gap will do the trick? What if the post pregnancy damage won’t be there- because his kids will be enough for her ( oh so fun to be a young cool stepmom)
What if he decides that 15 years of screwing me was enough, he got the kick he wanted, now he will try the honest, nice way… just to show himself, that he can do it?( reverse cheating actions but same goal)
That I was the “trial version”
It’s so fucked up ????‍♀️
I had a rough week and started questioning the way I live my life… values, morals, being a good person…. what did it bring me? Nothing positive, while cheating lying h was enjoying his family, fuckfests and if he chooses to change- now will be scoring on the “ I changed and sin no more”!!!

????????????

My innocence is gone, my cynical selfie emerges… so I’m becoming a bitch on the top of my fucked up past… great

????????????????????????

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Are you a good person for you or are you a good person to impress others? Do you really want to be a jerk even if it means a “higher” standard of living or do you like being able to look yourself in the mirror everyday? Maybe Ex and Schmoopie will be gloriously happy forever but do you really want to be like either of them? Personally, I like living with myself the way I am. I may not be perfect but I am not tainted by the stench of having screwed others over for personal gain. Good people don’t always appear to be the winners, but they are the ones whose souls remain in tact however battered and hurt they may be. I think that matters even if there is no God and no afterlife. There is this life, and how we live it is important.

As for him, even if he “sins no more” that taint will always be with him. I do believe in forgiveness but to fully repair a broken soul takes more than “sin no more” in takes redemption and that’s too much work for a cheater.

Thrive
Thrive
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

No my dear you are not a bitch. You are in pain and battling surviving a sucker punch by a worthless, lying, cheating, self centered low life. You are not at fault here. He is an abusive bully. Your values, morals and being a good person are carrying you through this crisis. Your righteous anger is protecting you and moving you forward. When all is said and done, he is the devil and you a righteous warrior. No compromise, no contact. Your sanity and self respect are worth the struggle. You feel jealous of his ow but it is really grief, you feel weak but you are strong, you feel rejected but you are liberated from a rotten character, you feel alone and misunderstood but you have a tribe in us, you feel afraid but that is self preservation from your core; You are not alone! Hugs

Spoonriver
Spoonriver
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Oh Elsa
They will never change. Once they cross that moral line they can’t go back, especially when they crossed it over and over again. I’m not a particularly religious person but I am spiritual. I think about my STBX as he dies. How will he face his god? What black place will he go to or what miserable next life will he get? When I think about it , that is the only time I fear for him, but I did not make him do the thousands of things and make the million decisions that he made to have a 30 year secret life. He has the habit now of taking the easy way out and lying..it won’t change. I think maybe the Mensa candidate (not) that he is with is perfect for him and the right one. She is a shallow, stupid narcissist..like him.

There are some days I’m so mad I can’t stand it but then I wear myself out on it and let it go. Each time I’m less mad. I take solace in the fact that I can choose to forgive..that is my power in this. You know what Elsa? I choose NOT to forgive. I can not forgive him and move on and let go and be healthy. I deserve it.

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

Spoon

I believe that the whole motion of forgiveness is highly overrated….why?

1. Whatever God you believe, there is absolutely no message of fucking someone over and not bare the consequences…. There is action/ reaction…
2. Meh is a ultimate goal
Meh doesn’t require extra work on my side regarding making h feels better, it doesn’t require me banding over or do ANYTHING except go taking care and healing myself.
Meh doesn’t mean I have to become creaming angry bitch… on the contrary- it allows me to focus on my well being and well being of my kids
3. My bio father left me and my mom when I was 5. It took me some time to end up in meh towards him, but I will never forgive. Never. Fortunately I had a great men in my family- and they were there when I needed a dad figure.
My bio – I don’t hate him. I’m way pass hate… im100% meh.

Forgiveness- overrated
Meh- appropriate goal

Mandie101
Mandie101
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

Hugs to your Elsa. Some raw honesty there. I know you are venting . Deep down you know that doing the right thing is the Right thing.
Psalm 37 says : fret not thyself over evil doers…” The writers of the Bible were hip to these kinds of people and they knew that decent people would get worked up when they saw the wicked thriving. But the Psalm continues to say: trust in the Lord and do good….the wicked shall be cut off”
Don’t worry yourself. Delight in helping others and in doing good.
One idiot does not a lifetime experience make.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  Elsa

My ex got a 13 years younger skank and man was she rough. In the end it doesn’t matter. Eventually the honeymoon ends.

unicornomore
unicornomore
5 years ago

I listened to the show and hurt for Sarah’s story…she is being mighty in raising her 4 kids while her X wallows about excuted over new wedding gifts. I did hear that in her voice…a timid “What if she was the one?” as if that would have created the moral imperative of her handing her life over to someone else and forfeiting her right to complain about it.

I agree with CL…there are ways to end relationships more ethically than secret lives and extended cheating.

First, one common goal would be people would stop dating when they married and had 4 (or in my case 3) children. If you are busy explaining math to one kid, taking another to a birthday party and helping your wife prepare dinner, you theoretically dont have time to date. This dating in itself is an indicator of betrayal of devotion, time, effort, money…

I dont know about you, but neither time I eventually married, I was not “in love” for a number of weeks or months…it took time to get to that place. I generally dont buy the “it just happened” line.

Lastly, if a married person does find themselves struck by Cupids arrow and hopelessly in love with Schmoopie…the decent thing to do is to make a firm decision, sit their spouse down and explain that the marriage is over and enter a time of that Conscious Uncoupling Gwynyth spoke of. Will the left spouse probably cry, scream and beg….possibly…but that doesn’t justify the duplicity, blaming and using that Cheaters are so known for.

If Nowdeadcheater had (instead of telling me that I was a horrible wife who needed to be left) told me back on 2005 that he and Susan were going to partner up thus our partnership had to end…it would have sucked, I would have been very angry and hurt, but I would have recovered. It was the unbridled cruelty and selfishness that still to this day leaves be undone.

His selfish cruelty was a choice and it showed much more about his character than simply wishing to change partners…that is what I see is the flawed argument in “maybe she was the one”.

OptionNoMoree
OptionNoMoree
5 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

It infuriates me when I hear of cheaters who cannot help themselves because of “love.” The ones who claim that they tried to end it but couldn’t let go of their love. Bull shit!

I won’t go into the whole argument about how it’s not real love. It’s just not.

But, I will comment about how it is possible to turn your back on love when it is the right thing to do. It is possible because I’ve spent 2018 doing it.

My husband left me to be with another woman he’d been having an affair with for at least 17 months that I know of. I loved him. I loved him so much that I picked me dance for almost a year before he left, doing everything I could possibly think of to save my marriage. He left anyways.

So I began the process of tearing down that love. If my love was a house, his affair was the earthquake that shattered it. Now, I’ve been sifting through the rubble, picking up every brick and 2×4, every broken possession, and shard of glass to say good bye. What do I keep with me from this rubble? Some of it might make it into a scrapbook or treasure box of memories so that I can say, “Hey kids. Here is some evidence of the life we had when we all lived in that old house, if you care to see.”

My love for my husband has had to be smothered, packed away into that box and shelved in the attic. I hope that at some point he just becomes “someone that I used to know” even though I have to continue parenting with him. He wasn’t mine to have. He didn’t allow himself to be. Feel the pain, process it and move on. That’s what I have had to do.

It’s what every cheater who claims to love the OW/OM should do but don’t because they really don’t want to. They’re not interested in doing what’s right, but feeding their entitlement.

I build a new, mighty house. A new love emerges for this new home. This home is myself filled with my self-love. There will be no space in that house for my STBXH. At best, he can climb the front steps to drop off the kids. My house is filled with those people who value and cherish me in relationship, just as CL mentions above. My foundation is being poured and the finishings chosen, and every bit of it is being done with love and the wisdom of past mistakes. Light will pour out of that house and it will be filled with pure joy and love. God’s blessing and grace is found in that house.

Is my STBXH happy over at his new house with the OW? Don’t know and don’t want to care. It’s not the kind of neighbourhood I choose to visit.

chumpmotherof3
chumpmotherof3
5 years ago
Reply to  OptionNoMoree

So so beautiful and insightful. Thank you so much

GratefullyDivorcedDad
GratefullyDivorcedDad
5 years ago
Reply to  OptionNoMoree

ONM,
So insightful and beautifully written!

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
5 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

I continue to be surprised at the reaction of the other host who asked, “What if people fall in love? Things just happen!” Bullshit. Utter bullshit. The response was right on the nose though that it simply can’t happen if your boundaries are right. You don’t get involved with married people. Full stop.

No way would I engage in deep, meaningful, personal conversations with some guy at work. The flirtations and over-sharing and complaining about the old battle ax spouse simply MUST NOT HAPPEN. I wouldn’t do it. Asshat had no problem with that.

He shopped himself around until he got his ho-workers to take a bite and then he justified the affairs as being my problem. He was oooh, so niiiiice and ooooh, so fuuuunnnnnny. Long lunches, beers after work, what a greeeeaaatttt guy! The wife is obviously the problem. How good it feels to have your middle aged-ego stroked by the young chicks.

He buttered up his hands and held our relationship high over a crevasse while he charmed the ho-workers. When it slipped out of his grasp he blamed me for it.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Personally, I don’t think anyone has a right to fall in love with anyone else while married at all. When you get married, you are agreeing not to put yourself in a position where that could even happen. It isn’t a matter of resisting temptation as avoiding it. To cherish means not comparing your spouse negatively to others real or imagined. You can’t cheat unless you have done that. If your marriage really is making you miserable, then you have a right to leave it in a respectful way, but whether or not you can find better out there should not figure into that decision at all.

unicornomore
unicornomore
5 years ago

Oh I fully agree with you.

A married person ought not do anything that would put them in a place of constant interaction with someone enough to develop feelings for them. My comment was a bit of a Devils Advocate treatment that if one did get there, one could still choose to attempt some decency while ending a marriage…it was the abject cruelty and lies and gaslighting that bother me in looking back on it.

unexpectedchumpiness
unexpectedchumpiness
5 years ago

A friend and I were talking one day. He has been happily married to his high school sweetheart for over 20 years. He is a handsome, high-end, wedding photographer and sees rich beautiful brides and bridesmaids every weekend for the past 10 years. He travels all the time for his work. He has all the chances in the world to cheat and to trade “up”. I was young and naive and we were talking about marriage and commitment, I was asking him how you know if it’s the right one, and what if someone else better comes along, etc. He said “Someone better will always come along. There will always be someone more beautiful, funnier, skinnier, or richer than your partner. But the point is to choose someone and love them for all that they are and not despise them for what they’re not. Marriage is a create, the two of you have to create your love every day, it never runs on automatic.”

So, there will always be someone “better” that will come along, there are billions of people. The purpose of marriage is choosing ONE and loving THEM like you are supposed to. It’s a promise to SHUT THOSE OTHER OPTIONS DOWN. That’s why you make promises before God about “forsaking all others” and even sign a fucking contract.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.

Drew
Drew
5 years ago

Uh, damn straight.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
5 years ago

If you don’t ACT on your feelings, they go away! That’s what forsaking is all about.

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS. A fact sadly lost on cheaters. The feelings were created by their actions toward the cheating accomplice. If they had acted toward us like the cheating accomplices, none of us would be here. Cheaters have no boundaries, or consciences, so they are compelled to act on their feelings and then claim helplessness over the situation THEY CREATED.

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago

Velvet

I feel a strong feeling towards the diamond ring I saw few days ago… really want to have it… wear it and enjoy it!!!!!
So what?
Nothing.
I have no means to purchase it, my values don’t allow me to steal it… I moved on.

Yes, it was shiny and sparkly….

I redirect my “ want” towards something that is needed and goes along the line of my lifestyle… ended up buying very comfortable, luxurious- looking pj ????

unicornomore
unicornomore
5 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

If Sarah is reading today…good on you…Im proud of your mighty self.

Please pardon the typos…”excited” over wedding gifts, leaves “me” undone.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Hi Susan of Seattle.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Oops I thought Susan of Seattle was reading on here!

Leavealyingloser
Leavealyingloser
5 years ago

These are more than just bad people. They are completely blank people. They have zero clue who they are. They are moving thru life scared shitless of not eating the right croissant or not saying the right catch phrase. They are completely lost.
Those of us who actually are real people can’t relate to *why* one would need to promote *being themselves*
We just are. It comes as naturally as breathing.
These people are fucking freaks.

UXworld
UXworld
5 years ago

I wish the hosts had flipped the guest order — the RIC therapist first, and you second.

I think anybody listening who is truly in the cheater mindfuck would have benefitted from your remarks as a follow up to his “blame isn’t constructive, there may be issues unexplored, labelling someone who cheated as ‘bad’ is advice you might get from a 12-year old” blather.

I get it — it’s how he makes his living, and he likely genuinely wants to help people both individually and as a couple. But people who’ve not been through it, or who are in the process of navigating through it, ae done no favors by continuing to put so much focus and attention on trying to untangle the skein of fuckedupedness.

Thanks Tracy for continuing to wave the banner high on behalf of all of us.

KeepItMoving
KeepItMoving
5 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Yes, UXWorld! I thought the same and was angered by a lot that he said! When he said that you needed to talk to the cheater, not blame them, because blaming them would just shut down the dialog and you need to know what really happened?!?! Oh sure! Ask a liar what the truth is! That sounds constructive and healthy! I also felt like he was holding his breath and hoping that the hosts would not ask him if he had ever cheated on a partner….

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
5 years ago
Reply to  KeepItMoving

But yea, that shit works out…for the cheater. This is exactly what I did with my cheater on the advice of our therapist–no blame, just talk. In addition to further destroying any self esteem I had left and obliterating my ability to emotionally care for myself, it just emboldened him to become more and more demanding and point more and more fingers at me and my “misdeeds” as a terrible terrible wife, apparently.

So this advice is bunk. If anything you should continue to assert the blame, where blame is due, and see if real contrition and remorse results. For when people are decent and unicorn-ish, and are blamed for terrible shit they have done, they will show true contrition and remorse and work to make it right. If casting blame on someone (where blame is due) causes them to shut down and maybe even go on the offensive, then that is all you need to know about their character. Time to get the F out.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
5 years ago
Reply to  KeepItMoving

“blaming them would just shut down the dialog and you need to know what really happened”…lol. Right. I know you cheated and you are un-remorseful. I think that’s enough.

He’s advocating chumps should swallow their dignity so that they may play marriage police in an effort to, what, help the cheater come to terms with their own misdeeds?!? So, let’s all walk on eggshells and centralize this person who has caused us great pain and suffering. Nice work Mr. Therapist…way to empower victims of abuse. #therapyhero

threetimesachump
threetimesachump
5 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Funny how he (RIC therapist) deflected the question of whether *he* had ever been cheated upon, and/or ever been a cheater. “Of course, haha, I have…I’m 59… Mumble, mumble…was cheated on in twenties…deflect, change topic…”
I’ll bet he left a lot out of that answer!

Tempest
Tempest
5 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Haven’t yet listened to the podcast, but I appreciate the advance notice that the RIC therapist thinks that labeling cheaters “bad” is something a 12-year old does. Sanctimonious, much?

Gee, let’s play that game:
Ariel Castro, who kept 3 women captive and regularly raped and beat them, was just misunderstood, not “bad.”

Ted Bundy, who murdered over 30 women, just had unresolved issues that needed to be explored. He wasn’t “bad” because everyone can be redeemed.

Witch of Buchenwald, Ilse Koch, who sadistically tortured many people in her concentration camp, was just gleefully following orders, not “bad.”

A cheater who has a multi-month/year affair, leaves a woman with 4 children in the lurch to launch a public portrayal of Marital Bliss with his AP isn’t “bad,” he was just responding to Issues in the first Marriage.

My 12-year old mentality wants to say “Fuck You” to the RIC therapist.

MeowMix
MeowMix
5 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Amen

Tall One
Tall One
5 years ago

I’ll briefly add another layer I’m coming to terms with;

The kids deserve a happy mother.

I may wish the most vile cancer to consume her body. The kids don’t deserve that. I may wish her new boyfriend be an equal jerk. The kids don’t deserve that.

You go through all these hoops trying to make justice out of jello and there is none. Not if I truly want the kids to feel loved, to be healthy and in a good relationship with their mom.

It’s also kinda freeing, b/c you can only shrug it off and focus on yourself. Same feeling about living in a no-fault state; you are forced to let it go.

I WILL say, I heard she was sharing FB photos with the kids and a) kids think he looks old & b) she said “all men look the same at middle age”

So he’s coming in as an older, plain-looking middle aged guy and that is settled-for.

I want my gf to think I’m hot, desired, etc…

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
5 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

That is a hard one for me too. My ex deserves to lose his kids for the way he behaved, but the kids deserve to have a loving relationship with both parents including their dad so they can feel loved and not abandoned. In our case, he is not a danger to them. Therefore, I encourage and facilitate their relationship with their dad and will continue to do so. It is not always easy though.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
5 years ago

[slow clap]. Yep. For as long as my ex is willing to be “father of the year” post-divorce to our daughter…I’ll take it! The kid deserves to be loved and cherished by her dad. It can hurt sometimes to see him doing the things I always wanted him to do with us, as a family man, but that has nothing to do with my kid.

Kale
Kale
5 years ago

This is because you are a loving mom who puts her children’s needs above hers. Would that he did as well. But oh well. As long as the children turn out happy and well-adjusted – we can’t control this entirely but if they are little we can try to influence this.

Tall One
Tall One
5 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

Here’s a completely other thought I have (that I think is worth mentioning):

I deserve the love of MY life. I deserve sushi and brunches and love, love, love. We chumps can get the love we deserve.

That’s the point, isn’t it?

Ps “justice out of jello” — wow.

unicornomore
unicornomore
5 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

I love the “justice out of jello” too because that is the likelihood I had of ever developing a sincere relationship with my cheater.

I think though… “deserve” is a dangerous place to go. Ive seen some betrayed spouses use “deserve” in ways that werent really helpful.

After my betrayal and the death of my cheater, I really did hope to find love. I did, he is a great partner…at first I had Schmoopie-eyes for him…saw him as the fixer of all that was broken …eventually realized that was too much to put on anyone. He is not a savior, he is simply a decent person and good partner and we love each other.

Its funny that we are not each others’ “types”…he was looking for tall and blond…I was looking for short and dark, but our love kindled the fires of desire and Im fine with him exactly as he is.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

I just want a best friend. Isn’t that what we all want. I can be sexy (ok I might be kidding myself) but I can also slob around too. But hey, I have the most fantastic sense of humour. My colleague just told me I should go into stand up comedy. But for 6 years I dated a much older colleague because I loved his intelligence and his wit. We are no longer a couple but I love him to bits. Looks fade but personality doesn’t!

Tall One
Tall One
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

I’ll take a best friend! I just want to be “settled-for”.

Tall One
Tall One
5 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

* DONT want to be settled-for.

ugh..

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

Hey move in with me, I have a view of the Mont Blanc from my bedroom!

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Do big tits constitute “sexy”. I think I missed that boat

Mandy
Mandy
5 years ago

I know my abandoning stbx has two choices: stay in denial and continue on without a conscience, or own the reality of his deplorable behaviour and deal with processing the emotions and owning that truth.

I’m pretty sure he’s not equipped to face his underhandedness. Schmoopie has poached herself a man I would never choose to be with, someone who had it all and suddenly ran off with a co-worker blindsiding his wife of 20+ years and kids. So for me, it’s all about the disappointment of how shitty he turned out to be, not about what they have. What they have is a relationship predicated on narcissistic tendencies and deficient character. All points indicate she is equally, if not more, damaged than him.

It’s embarrassing to be associated with the whole debacle he made of our family and the low-brow drama.

MrsVain
MrsVain
5 years ago
Reply to  Mandy

This!!!!!

I had to finally accept that was and really is a worthless piece of shit who actually had no problem walking away from me (who loved and supported him for 15 years and tried so hard to make him happy and have a good life) and his 2 children. (Esoecailly because he wanted them so badly at first and got fixed so he can’t have any more).. .

And not only did he walk away from us but he did so like we were nothing at all.. … (because we were nothing to him).. .. it took me a couple of year to come to terms with who he really is. He plays the nice guy part so well.

It’s been 4.5 years and I hear he just cheated and ran off on the troll he cheated and ran off with. . . Now she is going thru what I did (not as badly thou since she wasnt married to him plus she knew beforehand that he was a cheater and I was blindsided)… .. now she is posting meme on Facebook about how cheating is wrong and things about karma and she loved him but he couldn’t see it. Things like cheating on a good woman… ..(cracks me up since she is far from a good woman. A good woman doesn’t beat her man or throw bottles at his face but she is so delusional that she thinks she was good) .. .. of course she STILL has not made the connection of what he did to me when he ran off with her. And she never will.. .. she was so happy she WON. She threw it in my face as often as she could. She posted pictures of him and her on social media. How happy they were, how much better she was then I, how they were meant to be and how God brings people in your life.. .. .. 4.5 years later she lost him to someone else…
#karma

At least she doesn’t have the new girl throwing it in her face or purposely hurting her like I did. Was and on the other hand gave up everything for her (and probably told her that repeatedly) and in almost 5 years he doesn’t even want her. THAT is the kind of man HE is.. so glad I am not associated with him anymore.

MyRedSandals
MyRedSandals
5 years ago
Reply to  Mandy

Mandy,

“So for me, it’s all about the disappointment of how shitty he turned out to be, not about what they have. What they have is a relationship predicated on narcissistic tendencies and deficient character. All points indicate she is equally, if not more, damaged than him.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THIS is exactly how I feel, too; thanks for capturing the sentiment so perfectly! One of my grown sons — the family peacemaker— simply doesn’t get why I’m Zero Contact. He asks, “Why can’t we all just get along?”

THIS is why!

got-a-brain
got-a-brain
5 years ago

Do they change… probably not! My divorce has been dragging on for 4 years, which means I get access to discovery docs throughout that period. STBX has been dating his current girlfriend for just about 4 years and his credit card statements show charges for adult friend finder as late as 2018. Who knows, maybe she’s into it too and they have an account together, but my guess is she has no idea.

Throughout our marriage he was on dating and hook-up sites, and just didn’t get why that was not okay. You know, since the problem was “my controlling nature”. From what I understand his current girlfriend divorced her husband for cheating… and now she’s with the king of double lives. In public he’s the face of charity, spirituality, community, and the victim of a “gold digging spouse”. Behind closed doors he sleeps with hooker, spends thousands per strip club visit, and is on just about every depraved sex website out there (thanks to my years of marriage policing).

Do they change? Who cares, not my problem!

Out West
Out West
5 years ago

The concept of damaged goods comes to mind. The cheater makes sure on their exit that the chump is damaged goods. The chump is a commodity that no longer serves the cheater for active cake consumption but a broken chump for passive cake consumption, now that’s a gift that keeps on giving. Years down the line, the cheater can point their finger in feigned indignation and spout ‘see why I left Out West? She’s damaged, no good, bitter’. When we leave the cheater and gain a life they can’t use use us as handily, particularly if we get ahead of the narration. Build our image of strength and resiliency. It takes time to get the cheater’s voice out of our head. But oh so worth it! The Japanese have broken bowls that are repaired with gold, representing ‘golden journey’. Repair yourself with gold. Revel in your strength.

https://mymodernmet.com/kintsugi-kintsukuroi/

NotAfraid
NotAfraid
5 years ago
Reply to  Out West

This is fantastic, @Out West. What a perfect metaphor for this journey!

“This repair method celebrates each artifact’s unique history by emphasizing its fractures and breaks instead of hiding or disguising them. Kintsugi often makes the repaired piece even more beautiful than the original, revitalizing it with new life.”

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
5 years ago

To Sarah,

He is excited about his new wedding gifts while you are raising the four children? I think that about sums up how deep his pool of character goes… he’s permanently in the shallow end.

Still, I know it hurts. And, I am sorry that you and your children have to go through this. You didn’t choose it (like he did), it happened to you. It is real.

But, the other side of that coin is you no longer lay your head down at night next to a sociopath. The OW married a man who is OK with cheating on his wife and abandoning his four children. Do you really think she “won”? She just created an open space for the role of OW.

You have the freedom now to find “your one”… because he sure as shit wasn’t it. You get to raise the kids your way (you probably were doing most of the heavy lifting already) and the reward that you will feel from raising those kids into good humans will be immeasurable and life-lasting. Your X’s new set of china will be broken in due course, it is the nature of a cheater to destroy things.

We’re here… keep coming back. You are mighty.

UnknowingChump
UnknowingChump
5 years ago

For ages I thought I was the problem and that it was my fault “we” couldn’t be happy. I beloved my ex did all the things he did because I was a crappy wife. It newer occurred to me to look at him, it was all on me.

When he moved in with his GF and started doing all the things he never did with me it was just more proof that I and only I was the problem.

With time and distance from him I see that he really hasn’t changed for her and all of the things he accused me of are actually things he does and says. I have none of the issues now that I had with him. None.

Leaving him was the best thing I ever did. I had to see him to resolve some issue and he is having exactly the same issues with her he had with me. He is in terrible shape and hasn’t changed a thing about his life. If I hadn’t been expecting him to walk through the door I wouldn’t have recognized him. Since splitting I have travelled the world, paid of all “our” debt, built a healthy savings, have a beautiful, peaceful home and since we split in 2014 I have made up almost his entire salary in raises and bonuses at my job. His. Entire. Salary.

For some reason many of us here worry that we weren’t good enough when the truth is that they were never good enough.

If I met my ex today I wouldn’t let him buy me a drink. The thing is he wouldn’t offer as I’m so far out of his league now. He (and men like him) just wouldn’t waste their time as it’s clear wouldn’t give them what they really want.

Chumpedincanada
Chumpedincanada
5 years ago
Reply to  UnknowingChump

The ex narcopath also, has all of the same problems with each new woman he is with. His relationships all run the same cycle for the same length of time, and ALL of the women he has ever dated have left him.

Sure, he goes through the idolize, devalue, discard phase, but the women are the ones who end it officially, after they catch him cheating. He will hoover them, all the while continuing to cheat (because technically they are broken up), and each woman will give him 3 to 5 chances to amend his ways. He will cry and beg and plead his way back into their hearts with promises to change and then blow it all up again. And again. And again.

His relationship failure is statistically at 100% failure rate.

When you see a person who has a failure rate like that and repetitive cycles, there is a name for that: predator. Sociopath. Psycopath. And narcissist.

I always believed that I was the common denominator in all my relationships, and I have had a handful of long term romantic relationships.

For a while after ex narcopath (by far the most soul crushing damaging romance I have ever had) I cried to my mother asking her if she thought there was anything more I could have done to save the relationship.

She was exasperated with me and said: “ChumpedinCanada, you did Everything in that relationship, your effort was unmatched….you are sitting crying over that waste-of-skin and he is off in the sunset with a new gf. Your heart was pure. You have 110%. There is nothing more you could have done. He was never worthy….”

And then she asked me: have any of your other romances been like this one?

Me: No. Nothing close.

Mom: Because he is a psycho.

So. If mom says he’s a psycho. That’s all there is to it. Lol.

WisedUp
WisedUp
5 years ago

This is an important point. My therapist said it this way: “just look at his trajectory.” I went back and reconstructed everything I knew then, that prior to my sixteen year relationship with ClusterFuck, he had two serious longterm girlfriends. I found them online and contacted both, both described all the same rage problems and devalue followed by cheating. One of the told me ClusterFuck was still seeing her for the first 7 years he lived w/me in a house we bought together. So though I thought I only had one DDay I then realized there were many more layers of the onion. I was able thru sleuthing to uncover another affair prior to the DDay one.

Now, five years later, switzerland friends told me that ClusterFuck and OW that I divorced him over, have “broken up and gotten back together several times.” But that he still lives in her house “because he can’t afford his own place. Gee wonder what caused their breakups. The rage or the lack of income, or the cheating. Maybe all three.. Meh. Not my problem anymore but I know for sure that I didn’t cause any of what is wrong with him. His trajectory proves it.

Attie
Attie
5 years ago
Reply to  UnknowingChump

Yep unknowing I am so much better off without the Twat. Enjoy that Schmoopie -paying for his toys, his Cadillac his 20 guitars!

MissBailey
MissBailey
5 years ago

Sarah, if your husband is anything like mine, she’s not the one either. Why? Because there will never be the “one”. My X lovebombed me like nobody’s business when we were dating. And what’s he doing now? The exact same thing with the exit affair. I also know that the X has been the one to leave most of his relationships. He gets bored, he’s not getting the kibbles, maybe the cake has gotten stale and dry – he only needs some lame-ass excuse to cheat and move on.

They might last a few years or just a few months. It doesn’t matter because his character has not changed. Trust that! Nobody is going to make him happy because he doesn’t know how to real love or joy.

And start going Gray Rock as much as possible. Block all parties on social media, insist that he use a parenting software, and force him to use email as much as possible. Another precaution – don’t let him start using his new wife as the go-between. My X started dong that shortly after we were married because he didn’t want to adult with her. I finally stopped doing after a couple of years because I was tired of being in the middle. His kids – his responsibility.

It’s hard and hurts so much. Take one day at a time. Spend time with people who love and support you. Teach your children how to respect and love one another. Show them what a good person is really like – be their role model. Believe us, you will get through this and come out better on the other side.

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
5 years ago

To those of you with Twitter, you can comment on Sarah Gorrell’s feed, here: https://twitter.com/sarahjgorrell/status/1057625564201279489

Adaira
Adaira
5 years ago

I do think my ex’s schmoopie is “the one” for him. He’s trash, she’s trash – they’re a perfect match.

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
5 years ago
Reply to  Adaira
Iris
Iris
5 years ago

Listened to CL on BBC last night.
Her wit, charm and humour shined through. I hope new chump listeners will come visit this site.
Can I just say, how much I value Tracy and this wonderful and supportive community of ChumpNation? Wow. Thank you everyone. Feel less alone in the wilderness knowing I have this solid network to count on. Always.
Keep forging on.
In solidarity! ❤️

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
5 years ago

My oldest daughter (26YO) gets texts from her asshat father occasionally, and recently he waxed poetic about how wonderful life is in the European country he moved to permanently. It is just soooo great. He wants daughter to travel there and won’t-that-be-fun. Impression management. Living the dream.

DD26 told him she doesn’t want to hear it and she does not see a trip to Europe any time in her future. She has maintained a thread-thin relationship with him where nothing deep is spoken of, weeks go by without contact, and she keeps her anger mostly hidden. She knows he is a dick but is not as explosive as me or her younger sister.

Younger DD23 has not spoken to him since telling him he is not invited to her college graduation. She has made no bones about telling him he is a dick. She called him completely out on his bullshit.

So sure, he is having a wonderful life. As long as his 25YO Schmoopie ho-worker doesn’t wake up and get herself a 25YO stud and throw out the 50YO balding petulant and childish asshat with his hairy back and stained and broken teeth, his life will be great. He put all his chips on moving to Europe to be with this little chippy. He needed to find his happiness you see.

Of course the Schmoopie is not better for him. Being with her requires he abandon everything, have a very strained relationship with his daughters, and be always at the top of a slippery slide out to the garbage heap when she trades to a younger model because asshat can’t give her children (he is snipped).

Let them live the dream with their downgrades.

Mitz
Mitz
5 years ago

When your ex is a lying cheat it doesn’t really matter what kind of fantasy life he spins. He’s still a dishonest scumbag underneath the fake veneer.

Anyone capable of stabbing a loved one in the back is pond scum.

Newlady15
Newlady15
5 years ago

I understand the fear. But really, think about that. In my case the x is with a woman who has a couple of failed relationships behind her, an almost teenage daughter( our kids are 26 and 30), and screws married men. If that is who can be “the one” to him, his standards are way lower than I adhere to, and he was with someone far above who he is with now. As is said so often here, they don’t trade up, so if their ideal woman( or man) is that much lower than us, good riddance, and enjoy that downgrade!

Attie
Attie
5 years ago

My ex was skinny runt (116 pounds with cystic acne but I didn’t care). I loved him – yea ive got to fix my picker, Sorry im typing on a French keyboard Swis history

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
5 years ago
Reply to  Attie

No QWERTY keyboard for you ! I enjoy reading your posts Attie

Attie
Attie
5 years ago

Thank you Sucker Punched. I learned on a Swiss keyboard but made the mistake of buying the home computer in France so I really am buggered – metaphorically speaking!

nveragain
nveragain
5 years ago

And for those of us whose fuckwit lived a double life with prostitutes, craigslist fuck buddies, Asian masseuses, transvestites, other men, orgies, money theft/mismanagement, etc., the question is not so much “what if the other was the one?” but rather a deep deep trauma that no one gets.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
5 years ago
Reply to  nveragain

nveragain… I get it. You’re not alone.

Mr. Sparkles would respond to ads as a BiMWM and use a picture of himself from our son’s baptism day.

Mr. Sparkles would respond to sex party ads and the pictures of the women were not much older than his teenage daughter.

Mr. Sparkles had his own ad on Adult Friend Finder, Ashley Madison, and some non-mainstream sex sites with a “anything goes” post.

Mr. Sparkles loved porn, IM’ing and online masturbating, you name it.

Bottom line… it is all on HIM. That is who he is. It is not and never will be a reflection on me. But can I talk about it with people outside of Chump Nation… nope. But never doubt… people here get it and get you. <3

Elsa
Elsa
5 years ago