Tips for Surviving the Suckfest Slog of Infidelity

tips for surviving infidelity

She’s looking for tips on surviving the grueling, suckfest part of infidelity. The lawyers, the gathering of evidence, the heartbreak.

***

Hi Chump Lady,

I am Chumplet — I wrote you not too long ago: 34 years married, 2 adult kids, he’s been running around with and spending a lot of money on strippers for at least the last five years.

I am currently in the process of finding information for my attorney.

(“Keep sending,” she said, “if it isn’t traumatizing for you.” Ummm, well, I’m already traumatized, I figure.)

I can surely use more tips, but I have discovered some small ways to deal with this thing I’ve been hit with and I thought maybe Chump Nation would like to trade ideas.

Mine:

I am for sure no Olympic athlete, but now more than ever I can feel the benefits of moving. Every morning I walk to get a coffee, 1 1/2 miles round trip. Also, I do some yoga and I have a particular favorite half-hour video I like to follow.

I meditate.

I did this before all the shit hit the fan, but I really feel its benefits these days. A 10-minute guided meditation. I use the phone app “Declutter the Mind.” A lot of this app is free and that’s how I used it for a long time, but after filing for divorce, I went through my phone and bought lifetime memberships to every app that I liked that offered one … May not be able to afford them later, right?

I try to get enough sleep.

I plan to move as soon as this shit show is over and have a place in mind. I’ve subscribed to local newspapers and magazines and I’ve followed local accounts and pages on TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. Every morning, I also look up some small thing I’ll need to know when I move to my new location, from what I need to know about a house with a septic tank and well water (I’ve never lived in such a house before) to what’s the most highly rated yoga studio in the area. Grocery stores. Doctors. Dentist. Vets, trainers, boarding places. Mechanic. I have a folder of notes and links on my phone. I plan to hit the ground running.

Early on, a friend advised, “Knock off for the day at five,” and I do that as much as I can.

Could such a post be helpful?

Chumplet

***

Dear Chumplet,

Totally helpful! I took a very similar approach when I went through it. There was a lot of list making, a lot of Excel spreadsheets. I documented everything in the house and took pictures of every room before I moved out, so I wouldn’t be accused of taking something (real or imagined.) I actually bought another home on the sly, with a bridge loan from a friend, so doing all the pre-move logistics also kept me busy.

And then there’s just the one-foot-in-front-of-the-other slog of daily life. Raising a child. Going to work. Having someone who needed me helped. Having routine helped. I worked for a weekly newspaper then, so those deadlines were a lifeline. Anyway you can get out of your head and escape the misery, do it. Pet a dog, go for a walk, go to everything you’re invited to. The world is a reminder that FWs aren’t central.

CN, what are your tips for surviving the meat grinder stage of infidelity?

What did you do to keep sane?

Remember — the pain is finite. Starting over is fraught and usually financially terrifying, but it’s so much easier to captain your own ship than it is to be weighted down with a FW.

Hang in there, Chumplet. You have a talent for logistics! Figuring out a house with a septic tank is nothing after being married to a septic tank.

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Braken
Braken
2 months ago

Spent as much time out of the shared house as I could.
1. Day trips to cute nearby towns, took pictures of things I’d get for my single person house. Bought tiny things. Bonus points for things he’d not like.

2. Left early for breakfasts and sat at the counter at diners and quietly let sweet older lady waitresses be nice to me and call me “hun.”

3. Joined roller derby, but any social, physical activity will do. Especially if it’s brand new, so you have to focus on it 100% while learning it. It’s a mini rumination break.

4. Got on the list for a PCP doctor in new town. Small logistical things to help make a future feel real.

5. Got my cat out early, having something to care for and help with routine.

6. Deep breaths, walks.

7. Birding. I want on several birding walks with a local Audubon. It was free, outdoors and distracting.

8. Detached from conflict in the house. Said “Ok.” And “If you say so.” a lot.
8a. On the very last day, before my move, he was criticizing me for something tiny… I suddenly snarled back “Why don’t you just keep your mouth shut and add it to my Yelp review for when I leave?”. It was a dumbass comment, but he did actually stop mid sentence. It made me feel like I was finally a step closer to being a person who didn’t have to care about his feelings. Because he was irrelevant.

MrsCrumpetChump
MrsCrumpetChump
2 months ago
Reply to  Braken

Braken, your # 2. Love it. Same (I don’t get called “Hun”, but next time i go for my coffee, I shall smile and think of you being called “Hun” 🙂

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
2 months ago
Reply to  Braken

” I suddenly snarled back “Why don’t you just keep your mouth shut and add it to my Yelp review for when I leave?””

This is perfection.

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
2 months ago

Chumplet,

Getting myself to a point that I understood that it wasn’t my fault that Ex-Mrs LFTT cheated, that it was a mistake to try and understand “why” she cheated and that I could only “fix” the things that I was in control of was a big leap for me …. a leap that allowed me to focus on the future that I was going to build with the kids once we were through the divorce.

LFTT

MamaMeh
MamaMeh
2 months ago

Music. Dancing.

The first playlist was started the day after Dday. My mind was so scrambled I couldn’t think of a title besides “Now”.

I made playlists that at first were made up of songs about heartbreak and fury, evolving year on year to being about being mighty and proud and free.

If I was feeling overwhelmed and miserable, I’d put the EarPods in and crank it up. I’d dance myself stupid: making the kids’ dinner in the kitchen; mowing the lawn; walking the dog.

I didn’t care who saw me or how nuts I looked. It put my brain (and my body, with all that boogying) into a whole different gear.

(I’m over Gloria Gaynor but I’ll never get tired of the version by Cake).

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
2 months ago
Reply to  MamaMeh

Yes to music! I had all kinds of playlists – angry stuff, uptempo psych me up stuff for before and after mediation meetings, the bands I loved that he didn’t like. They all had their rotations.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  MamaMeh

I was laughing when I saw the lead character rage-dancing to Tom Waits’ Big in Japan in the series Etoile because it was one of the songs on my own playlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM60iVDu79Y

The lyrics don’t seem that relevant to being chumped but Waits apparently meant them ironically about celebs who pretend to be artistically pure and incorruptible in the west but then secretly do cheesy cigarette, junk food and condom commercials in other countries which sounds very FWitty to me.

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago

The first comment on the YouTube video is amazing, too.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  Chumplet

Wow, thank you for pointing that out. Beautiful story and the tot has interesting taste!

unicornomore
unicornomore
2 months ago

Yea, walking. On my birthday during the worst of the mess, I walked around the block over and over …the anxiety in me was like a nuclear power plant that had to be burned off. To this day, many years later, power walking is my exercise of choice.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
2 months ago

Chumplet, Thanks for this. My ordeal has been over for almost three years but the two years to get there were a living hell!! FW did not want to leave the marital home and tried everything he could to make my life miserable. That was when i decided turnabout was fair-play. He went off the deep end a couple of times to include calling the police. In the end the police did not do his bidding so he attempted to grab one of the officers and that got him a ride in the police vehicle!!! Shortly after that he moved out.
Since he was a FW, he trued to make things as horrible as possible for me including fighting for every fine. Happily for chumpy me, it did not work out for him. Ge had to give me a great settlement and pay me for all his wasteful spending on Schmoopies. I got the marital hone which I sold. I was able to retire this year and be assured that I would do this comfortably.
During the process, I focused on finding all the info i could on his dissipation, supported the forensic accountant, and gathering anything to support my case. I de-stresses by spending time with my mom, praying and taking walks in nature.
It was so great to get to the other side and be able to relax!! I did see the FW last week (haven’t seen him since the last court date). He looked like crap, was unkempt and filthy. He was no longer strutting like he was the King. Guess life with Schmoopie and side hookers is not as wonderful as he thought!!!

Elsie_
Elsie_
2 months ago

Three things really helped me:

  1. I was relentless in seeking out resources and support for myself. My old church said they’d be all I needed. Nope. They were clueless (“just pray it away”). I did therapy and coaching (a legit one) until I couldn’t afford it any longer, and then I joined a twelve-step program because my ex was also an addict with significant mental health issues.
  2. I became mindful of who I kept in my inner circle. I can’t emphasize that enough. I was a big people pleaser. It took a while to move beyond that. I looked for positive people who were going to walk with me through the next steps, no matter how difficult.
  3. We got a dog. She kept my youngest company while I was at work and was my walking companion and someone to cuddle with in the evening. She’s older now, but is still my everyday roommate.

It does get better, but you have to keep going and not get stuck.

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago
Reply to  Elsie_

My kids’ therapists and mine have recommended going to some sort of al-anon group for sex addiction. Not to ever let him back in our lives, but because it might help? Did you find it helpful? How do you find one?

Magnolia
Magnolia
2 months ago
Reply to  Chumplet

There are a few posts on Chump Lady that discuss the ways that sex addiction forums often end up excusing cheater Behavior. So if you do pursue that route I would go with your eyes open and be wary of framing your FW’s willful decisions on an addiction if it means people expect you to then take care of him or nurse him because of it.

UpAndOut
UpAndOut
2 months ago
Reply to  Chumplet

I’m a day late in reading but had to respond to your question about an anonymous group for sex addiction. I’m assuming it is SAnon, although there is also a group called POSA (partners of sex addicts). It could be a good idea to try it, as they cost nothing, but my experience is that both treat the partner as “sick” vs harmed or abused or traumatized, and both assume the partner is an enabler, and a codependent. That irked me as my XH completely kept his secret life secret. Until he didn’t.
In SAnon, you work the 12 steps yourself. At times this seemed incredibly blaming.
I found that knowing other women in similar circumstances helped me. Later, I realized that the ones I admired were the ones strong enough to get out of the marriage.
Some good advice I heard from an AlAnon group (my XH originally told me he was an alcoholic. He kept the secret basement a secret) was to try 5 meetings and then make a decision about whether the meetings are helpful.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 months ago
Reply to  Elsie_

Agree. You have to keep your distance from toxic people in order to heal, even if they are family.

Also agree about getting a dog. A canine companion is the best therapy there is. Research has found petting a dog releases feel good chemicals in your brain.

Archer
Archer
2 months ago
Reply to  Elsie_

Second point is very important as I went through my frenemy betrayal to switch to FW side mid divorce. Discerning who is worthy of keeping in my life.

I read this blog a lot.

Also bought toiletries and food type of stuff stuff to stash for later that I perhaps couldn’t easily afford while on the marital credit card.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
2 months ago
Reply to  Archer

I replaced my cell phone while we were still in “trial separation” but finances were still shared. Paid it in full so I wouldn’t be dealing with that payment plan later.

Best Thing
Best Thing
2 months ago
Reply to  Archer

Ditto the toiletries! Chanel and Estee Lauder made out like bandits that year!

Stepbystep
Stepbystep
2 months ago

Every decision/action I took was based on maintaining my dignity and independence.

I put together a support team (therapist, lawyer, 12 Step group). I walked with family and friends. I volunteered with two organizations which were meaningful to me.
I continued working.

I made and kept healthcare appointments. I took care of home and car maintenance. I bought myself simple flowers and scented candles.

I went no contact as soon as I could, mostly because anything he could say at that point would be painful.

I did this seven years ago at age 62. That life plan still works.

Mighty Warrior
Mighty Warrior
2 months ago

In 2019, I broke my knee in a ski accident, 6 months later my Dad died, and 6 weeks later the ex told me he was leaving me after perhaps a year of random acts of cruelty. I had no job, having just retired from a high profile professional role running an organisation which I had done with zero support from Mr Fashonista Lawyer ex for 8 years. I was nearly 60. A couple of months after my ‘dumping’, I found the emails on the family computer evidencing the longstanding, long distance affair with his exgf from school (aged 52 to his 53). The ex and I had been together for 26 years, married for 18 years. It was a brutal situation at a time when I should have been able to rely on the ex for comfort and support after bereavement.

6 years later, I’m working and volunteering, living with my lovely dog, in a brand new downsized house with money in the bank and a healthy pension pot for when I retire from paid work in 2026 when I will be 66. I am delightedly single because that’s how I like it.

My four top tips are:

  1. Ask for and accept help. I struggle to be anything other than independent, but this experience taught me to make myself vulnerable by seeking help from trusted people which they readily gave. I count getting a therapist and medication here – both helped to keep me alive. This act helps you to identify your tribe for the future.
  2. Get a lawyer early, the best you can afford, and be prepared to do the leg work to give them what they need to get you through the divorce nightmare. Don’t be afraid to sack someone who isn’t committed to doing the best job for you. I say this as a lawyer who didn’t heed my own advice!
  3. Tiny steps because that’s the safest way to proceed. Put a foot out of bed, then another, and that’s a win some days.
  4. The toppest tip of all: no contact as far as humanly possible. No kids here and I was able to push back hard against attempts to suck me in to triangulation with the exgf. I even got abuse from the exFIL (I believe that they were told that I had done something terrible to cause the ex to leave). I ignored the ex’s existence save for through my solicitor. Best thing I did during the process. Friends who know both of us are permitted to be friends with me only if they never mention the ex. If they can’t live with that, they are not my friends. And I’ve shed a lot of friends because people love a bit of gossip.

I wouldn’t say that I’m an improved person as a result of this experience. I do say that I take much better care of myself now and I don’t take any nonsense from anyone. On balance, I am glad the ex is history, not least because I no longer have to endure horrible family holidays with his unpleasant family. The apple didn’t fall far from that family tree. Shudder!

MrsCrumpetChump
MrsCrumpetChump
2 months ago
Reply to  Mighty Warrior

Yes, thanks MW for your Number 3… some days just remembering to acknowledge that the smallest things are an achievement …

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 months ago
Reply to  Mighty Warrior

I feel every word of this. Same for me, including being glad I don’t have to suffer the multiple members of FW’s family who are out and out narcissists (and crashing bores to boot) for holidays and birthdays.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  Mighty Warrior

Shriek, the inlaws!

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
2 months ago
  1. walking daily
  2. yoga with adriene (on-line) each night before bed still help me sleep
  3. keeping a schedule
  4. a small but good group of friends to talk to
  5. one divorced friend, who i called a divorce doula, who knew exactly what i was going through and provided specific divorce support was quite helpful
  6. therapy with EMDR to work through the trauma

i got a dog a couple of years ago, and that has been a terrific healer. the uncomplicated love and enthusiasm lift me up. also, i took writing classes and wrote a story that i adapted into a screenplay (TV). it involves a murder. this was also therapeutic!

i think i’ve learned a lot about myself in the almost 5 years since D-day, and, for that, i’m thankful.

unluckyseven
unluckyseven
2 months ago

I second the yoga with adriene, her videos were lifesavers for me in the months after d-day.

Stepbystep
Stepbystep
2 months ago

I wish there had been a guide for changing everything back to my maiden name. You would think my lawyer would have provided it.

Also, I should have pushed for the full 50% equity from the marital home instead of trading some to keep all my retirement savings. FW could have been persuaded due to guilt and image management at that point.

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago
Reply to  Stepbystep

Yes, I am wondering how I will know best how to negotiate.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago

I took my own medicine during the worst period. The advocacy group I worked for back in the day recommended survivors of abuse write down every single terrible, eerie, abusive, cruel or even just obnoxious thing their abusers ever did and then read and reread it every time they started drifting back into doubting or blaming themselves or pining for “what could have been.”

Usually people sit down thinking they’ll just fill a couple pages but then end up writing eighty because the act of writing primes the pump and frees up suppressed memories hiding under years of spackle and Stockholm syndrome. Also the fact that the memories are so often suppressed really brings home the fact that spackling is often about avoiding worse abuse since, if victims were to confront their abusers over the abusive acts, there would have been hell to pay. So victims make themselves “disremember” these abusive incidents as they happen in order to spare themselves.

All these years later, the writing exercise has become popular clinical advice by specialists treating survivors of coercive control and domestic violence.

Another thing that helped me is to realize that, if you boiled it down to brass tacks, all abuse is “emotional displacement.” This means that, from a certain perspective, the agonizing, unbearably painful things victims feel at the worst times aren’t really victims’ own emotions but actually the feelings their abusers are always constantly haunted by and constantly trying to suppress and get rid of through abusing others or through escapist compulsions like drugs, gambling, drinking, rando bonking, porn, etc.

Just a side note before it sounds like I’m making a sad sausage case for amnesty for abusers: even if abusers were virtually all once traumatized childhood victims of various horrible things, they are not “survivors” in the emotional sense because, by internalizing all the evil things that were done to them or that they witnessed and by becoming abusers themselves, they committed a kind of spiritual suicide. In other words, they didn’t really “survive” at all but instead ended up like undead trauma zombies or angry poltergeists who lurk around torturing the living.

Another antidote to the sad sausage pity for abuses to realize that It’s the same MO in some serial killers who like to watch and study the suffering of their victims as a sort of facsimile of the spiritual murder they once endured in childhood at the hands of sadistic abusers.

Anyway, it’s as if abusers irrationally view that legacy of trauma and all the residual tormented feelings that are always hiding under the surface as a hot potato that they must transfer and “displace” to someone else in order to be free of it. Basically if they can make you feel these terrible things, they feel temporary relief, as if they’d rid themselves of negative emotions. There may also be a superstitious element involved since abusive families typically operate on a zero sum game where someone has to be the scapegoat. So if you’re not the bully or enabling the bully, you’re the victim. In short, victimizing others may temporarily relieve abusers’ constant sense of trepidation that they’re about to be victimized which may be why they tend to enact their worst fears on victims (meaning if they fear abandonment, they abandon. If they fear infidelity, they cheat, etc.).

Whatever the case, it seems that part of the whole point of committing abuse is making victims feel the things abusers don’t want to feel.

Like feeling of worthlessness/unlovability/unattractiveness? That’s how abusers chronically feel if they even let themselves feel.

Suicidal ideation? This is constantly lurking in the corners of abusers’ addled brains. Deep down, they’re all miserable walking abortions.

Pessimism towards the future? Again, this seems to be a chronic state for abusers which may be why they live like the world may end tomorrow.

Self doubt? You’d need an actual self to have self doubt which is why abusers never settle down into one cohesive personality but instead are fragmented into the “parts” they play to take power and get their needs met. But in a sense there’s no greater expression of self doubt than trying to be someone else.

I think the evidence that abusers intentionally (if “subconsciously”) “hack” their victims into feeling negative emotions as an act of displacement is how telepathic abusers are about the very moment that victims start to genuinely recover and feel better again and basically get rid of those foreign emotions that abusers caused in them. That’s the point that abusers will often magically show up again like bad pennies to stir up shit and get victims back in their holes of anxiety, misery and despair. I imagine it almost like victims were wearing ankle bracelets that give off an alarm when taken off and, like bad cops, abusers come running to get the tracker placed back on.

Last edited 2 months ago by Hell of a Chump
SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
2 months ago

“they didn’t really “survive” at all but instead ended up like undead trauma zombies or angry poltergeists who lurk around torturing the living”

It is a very interesting concept. He did have some unpleasant things in his childhood, as did I. I ended up a people pleasing Chump and he emded up an Angry Poltergeist.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

Considering how most girls are socialized, I’m not sure one needs a difficult upbringing to end up a people-pleasing chump.

There might even be an evolutionary factor in there. From my kids’ past reactions to abusive school staff, I suspect girls are more likely to freeze and fawn in response to threat while boys might come out swinging to the exact same type of mistreatment.

Meanwhile my own tendency to freeze and fawn in childhood must have faded a bit in adulthood because I was the one who came out swinging when my kids were sent home with bruises. I didn’t give a rat’s ass whether the culprits on staff were abusive due to traumatic upbringings or not. I still filed a civil rights complaint and went to the police.

I know it can be triggering for some people to suggest that most if not all abusers are former victims, like it’s meant to inspire aw poor wubba-wubba boo-boos! But I personally don’t have that reaction to finding out some batterer, abusive teacher or serial killer has a tragic FOO history. I might feel sorry for the long-gone kids they once were while feeling zero sympathy for sadistic adult criminals.

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
2 months ago

“I might feel sorry for the long-gone kids they once were while feeling zero sympathy for sadistic adult criminals.”

So many serial killers had horrific childhoods and yes, we can feel bad for the children they were, but it once they grow up and start torturing, killing and eating other people, the sympathy goes out the window.

I no longer engage with the FW about the demise of our marriage. But when I did it was always so frustrating because he would waffle back and forth between apologies and excuses or worse, blame. He frequently said he had no idea how terrible he was (with the angry outbursts, screaming, selfishness). Sometimes that “I had no idea” would be followed by an apology, others it would be followed by blaming me, because I should have been clearer about not liking being around a 250 pound rampaging toddler 24/7.

I actually believe that he was oblivious to some of his monsterousness. It was simply who he was and who he had always been. But plenty was very intentional as well.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

The thing that kind of made the “trauma zombie” concept click for me was having one workplace stalker try to justify his behavior and get me to drop criminal charges by crying about his terrible childhood. Instead I just recorded the call and played the recording for police who rearrested him for breaking the protective order. The head of SWAT was actually chuckling when he heard stalker boy’s rhapsody. I asked if he thought the perp was lying about his past for sympathy. He said “Probably not but these guys haven’t been helpless little kids for a long fucking time.” and “Let’s get him back in a cell and then get him some therapy.”

I was also intrigued by theories that serial killers, by subjecting victims to torture and terror, are reenacting and replicating their own experiences with severe abuse from childhood. But this childhood abuse obviously didn’t end in physical death yet they kill their victims so what gives? That made me wonder if the fact they kill their victims reflects the fact that they, the killers, spiritually died as children. In other words, they might be replicating what those past abuse experiences “felt like” and not just the specific acts of abuse.

That last point in turn might explain why some domestic batterers who, though they didn’t grow up experiencing direct violence as children but instead experienced emotional violence and catastrophic shaming by caregivers, may still go on to commit assault as adults. They might be reenacting what the abuse “felt like” as children.

Either way, people like that aren’t “survivors” because they end up betraying the suffering kids they once were by becoming perpetrators themselves. If you think about it, there is no greater betrayal of self. In a certain light, you could also argue that the abuse these folks commit as as adults is a way of trying to kill/betray/deny the child they once were (and any residual suffering feelings that still resurface) over and over and over again like repeatedly stamping on a bug that keeps wiggling. Committing abuse as oblique spiritual suicide?

Archer
Archer
2 months ago

Very eloquently said HOAC. FW drove me to feeling uneasy, unattractive, undesirable and accused me of being unkind and unsupportive. I was none of those things and all of that describes HIM actually to a T.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  Archer

Yes, that’s also what I drew from untangling the why-they-do-it skein. Not sympathy for abusers– f*ck that noise. But it all made a kind of deductive sense which eased my mind. Like why do I suddenly feel like an unattractive misfit when appearance and conformity were never that important to me? Oh, duh, because he feels like a repulsive freak. Why do I suddenly feel like life is a short, meaningless slog to the grave when I never felt that way before? Oh, duh, because he always felt empty and purposeless. And on and on.

It helped me understand that the misery I was feeling at the worst points had been proverbially injected into me like I’d been stabbed with a used needle by an HIV-infected junkie. It also brought a little perspective to understand that this wasn’t happening to me because I’m easy pickings or particularly emotionally fragile. It was happening because his mindf*ck methods had been honed and polished over many generations of an epically dysfunctional family to the point that he’d sequestered a pretty massive burden of nihilism and angst which he felt he needed to unload on someone else.

I turned a corner when I finally grasped that this wasn’t my abject pain or my self doubt or my self-destructive ideation or my pessimism.. It was all his. And when I detached from him and shrugged it all off, I sensed all those negative feelings would “return to sender” which is effectively what happened.

Anyway, understanding isn’t the same thing as pardoning or justifying. Maybe I’m particularly cold hearted but I think understanding the enemy helps in beating them.

Bruno
Bruno
2 months ago

I have learned the hard way to not give a shit about why the cheater did all the horrible things they did. The point is to get away a start a new sane life. Of course it is hard because because you have been emotionally, physically, and financially enmeshed. But I visualize them as extremely radioactive. It doesn’t matter how they got that way because exposure to them will make you sick too. Save yourself !

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  Bruno

If you have children with these goons, a wish to spare your children from being inculcated and influenced by the endless generational cycle of goon dysfunction can act as a critical motivation to leave, especially in circumstances where the victim parent is facing severe consequences from leaving a relationship and needs that little bit of extra turbo-boosted rationale to take the risk.

In that sense, I think understanding how these assholes got this way can contribute to protecting children and creating a less violent and toxic society in the future.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 months ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I agree. Some sociopaths are born that way. The film We Need To Talk About Kevin showed a good example of a freak whose lack of conscience was innate.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I wrote an internal review of that film for a group of disability lawyers as part of a project to identify how “newgenic” science (new and improved versions of shitty eugenic theory) was influencing the culture and being used by police to justify excessive force against the disabled (it’s mostly the disabled why die this way) and by the American Association of School Administrators to legally defend use of abusive disciplinary methods like face-down prone restraint and seclusion in schools and institutions which kill up to 150 disabled individuals a year, mostly children.

For instance, the way “Kevin” behaves in infancy– screaming all the time, never sleeping, inconsolable,etc.– is the classic behavior of children regressing into autism. So the obvious implication in the story is that people with autism might kinda sorta grow up into mass killers when, in fact, individuals with autism are vastly underrepresented among school shooters/mass killers or violent killers of any kind and are far more likely to be victims of violence.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 months ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

There are definitely different theories about the roots of empathy impairment. I just find the genetic empathy deficit/born evil theory way too close to the old eugenic “crime gene” theory for my tastes. Plus every time some big genetic discovery is made supposedly supporting this idea, it turns out to be unreplicable and is typically founded on blatantly bigoted, debunked science.

For example, I once combed through the bibliography and every single one of the citations and even citations for citations for citations in Simon Baron-Cohen’s awful The Science of Evil for a group of disability lawyers who were trying to outlaw certain restraint and seclusion practices in schools and recognized that institutions were defending these practices and policies by using the kind of junk science that SBC was promoting. My task was to identify all the scary, antique junk science SBC’s eugenic arguments were based on so the advocacy attorneys could bring this to the attention of more legitimate scientists and hopefully get them hot under the collar about it.

Yikes, what a house of cards that book was. It’s hard to believe he’s the star of Cambridge. In the end we kind of concluded that The Science of Evil was really nothing more than The Bell Curve but in liberal drag and with the racialism concealed behind sciency cognitive theories. But all his citations added up to “Brown people are naturally violent and criminally inclined”
and “women who claim abuse are borderline.”

What a mess. Thankfully there are other theories on learned behavior to explain how people develop on/off switches for empathy that don’t veer off into master race/criminal race stuff and cognitive “castes.” One straightforward example of this is racism as a template for the development of narcissism because the belief system is clearly about how some people are inherently better and more worthy/entitled than others which is narcissism in a nutshell. It even has DARVO built right in because, in order to justify their fundamentally unjust views, unjust behavior and support for unjust policies, racist people have to continually collect evidence of the crimes and flaws of their designated scapegoats and, lacking that, just invent the evidence (eating pets anyone?).

So theoretically, someone raised by racist parents is probably at higher risk for developing narcissistic traits and the template for abusive behavior as an extension of an unjust and irrational ideological view. But, in my personal experience, I think being exposed to racist ideas alone doesn’t quite drive in the shitty belief system to the depths of someone’s soul unless that individual is also abused/traumatized in some way and develops psychic wounds and chronic rage.

In any case, I’ve never once encountered a racist clan that wasn’t dysfunctional af and traumatizing to children in some way or other. Live by the artificial hierarchy, die by it. From what I’ve seen, there was usually one or several patriarchal rage monkeys in the mix, then the flying monkey dynamic as everyone threw each other under the bus to avoid the loudest monkey’s wrath if not creepy sexual dynamics stemming from a fundamental imbalance of power.

Some current science seems to back this up by demonstrating that racism typically comes with other toxic patriarchal beliefs like “rape myth acceptance,” “might makes right” and “greater good” rationales to sacrifice some for the sake of others which all undergird the rationalizations for domestic abuse. And where you find rationalizations for abuse, you always find abuse.

All of this can apparently occur without fists or black eyes. Recent research on coercive control has found that it can be violentizing and cause permanent damage even if a small child is “merely” a witness to the abuse of others and/or experiences emotional neglect as a secondary effect of coercive control, either because the victim-parent is being robbed of energy and vitality and doesn’t have the bandwidth to attend to the child’s needs or because the victim-parent is frog-boiled into avoiding setting off the abuser’s envy over attention given to the child.

Regarding inadvertent neglect by a psychically traumatized victim parent, I think what makes videos on the “still face” experiments from the seventies barely watchable is because you can see how incredibly catastrophic a disruption in emotional connection can be to infants. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTTSXc6sARg

In other words, babies being exposed to the secondary “fumes” of abuse can end up really fucked up. But one of the problems in proving the “nurture” theory for abusive narcissism is that, according to prison studies, domestic abusers, like other serial criminals, often cover up for the very former abusers whom they ended up emulating. Some will insist those relationships were just fine, even idyllic when other family members describe something quite different.

I guess it’s no big surprise that liars (and all abusers are liars) lie about everything and anything. It can also be that the abuse a child experienced or witnessed happened before they could speak (since women of small infants are at particularly high risk of dv and other forms of abuse) and so some simply may not remember the early influences that turned them into burned-out sociopaths.

Last edited 2 months ago by Hell of a Chump
dracaena
dracaena
2 months ago

The best advice I could give anyone in the early days is to just ACT.

There’s a time and place to drape yourself over the chaise lounge and moan about the injustice of it all, but you can do that after you’ve gotten yourself and kids to safety.

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago
Reply to  dracaena

Yes, my friend’s attorney-boyfriend told me early on: Process your emotions later; collect documents now.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
2 months ago
Reply to  dracaena

Agree. It was like fight or flight was triggered in me, and I was doing both. I even went so far as to apartment hunt FOR HIM, but only because it involved both the extraction and safety of our daughter and dog (the former having to stay with him periodically as per the custody arrangement and the latter living with him entirely), so I was going to do as much as I could on my end to help them and much as I was trying to help myself. Acting/moving on all of this prevented me from simply collapsing under the weight of what was happening.

Last edited 2 months ago by ChumpOnIt
Tiggerly
Tiggerly
2 months ago

I found an article that said to make two lists: One of everything I was saying goodbye to (with the divorce) and the other on everything I was saying hello to as a result of the divorce. Those lists made me feel a LOT better.

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago
Reply to  Tiggerly

That sounds like a great idea!

anncarrico2.0
anncarrico2.0
2 months ago

First, I do believe the biggest thing really is just putting one foot in front of the other – physically and emotionally. I spent a ton of time just trying anything to feel better, as well as falling back on the things that have always been anchors for me. I tried not to isolate, and tried not to say no to anything that could possibly help me. It was hard, but I did. Some were helpful, some not. These were my anchors.

Writing has always been an easier way for me to fully articulate than speaking. It has been helpful to me to look back and see that, although what I wrote has changed over time, writing really did move me through hell and to a better place. In the end, I ended up writing a book from it.  

I’m not an artist, but creating through drawing helped me wrap my head around some of the ridiculous-ness of my situation in both meaningful and humorous ways.  

Returning to church was helpful for me – not so much for the religion part (the church I grew up in isn’t very outwardly “churchy”) but for the comfort of connections I have had all my life who never once doubted my goodness or allowed others to spin my story.  

Friends, of course. The right ones – not ones who were willing to screw my husband, ha! I unfortunately had a couple of those, but MANY other good ones who helped me rebuild trust. And family.

I have always enjoyed playing music loudly and dancing while housecleaning or just when I was down. I couldn’t do this around FW, so found a new love for it.

I sought out the kind of healthcare that focused on giving me a sense of agency in my own well-being, rather than symptom-based. (Fortunately I work in that type of healthcare setting so I could barter services). I found that navigating through the physical effects of trauma with a “guide” and a sense of direction helped me stay focused on what I could do for myself rather than on what someone else did to me.

Lastly, and by far the most difficult, I tried to never lose hope that life could be better (this group helped immensely!). I LOVE this post, and I can see myself going back and reading these comments over and over for new ideas as it is definitely a marathon and not a sprint.

Rensselaer
Rensselaer
2 months ago

I express gratitude daily for the things I do have like my health and the health of my children and pets.
I make notes in my phone. Things to change, things to do in the process.
I continue to lighten my physical load through selling and donating unneeded things.
I reach out to family and friends to stay connected even though I don’t particularly feel like doing so sometimes.
I take my vitamins.
I look at real estate for sale daily and visualize how I want to live in my forever home.
Divorce certainly wasn’t in my life plan, but I can see now how my life is better in many ways.

Chumpgrr
Chumpgrr
2 months ago

Music. For one thing, it offers the same kind of mental relaxation as meditation. Also, if you are stuck in front of the computer or at a table strewn with piles of paper, summing up your life as money spent and mis-spent, having something fun to listen to helps keep the energy more positive. Try something like ABBA where you hum along despite yourself and maybe even get up for a quick dance break. And finally, when you find yourself ruminating (trying to fall asleep at night, for instance), imagine listening to soothing music – it will relax you and displace the rumination images.

Bluewren
Bluewren
2 months ago

Get your people around you.

Figure out who is safe and those who will listen and support you through this- it might not be who you think it is.

Don’t listen to people who try to minimise what’s happening, blame you or insist there are ‘two sides to a story’ – they are idiots – ignore them and their BS.

Keep moving- walk, watch and listen to podcasts like Chump Lady etc so you know you’re not alone in this and you can see and learn from those who came through to the other side.

Sit with your feelings- it’s ok to grieve, be angry and sometimes very flat- let it all out.

Don’t give up no matter how tough it gets- we’re with you cheering you on- you can do this!
You are mighty!

walkbymyself
walkbymyself
2 months ago

Set up a Pinterest account and start thinking about your dream home! I only have a one-bedroom apartment, but for starters I wanted my dream bathroom. I can’t post pictures so you’ll have to make due with my description: a deep clawfoot bathtub with a floorlength shower curtain and liner, all new brand new white cotton towels (big-ass bath towels, too, no more decades-old mismatched towels).

My favorite feature is a beautiful generous sized basket that’s filled with rolls of toilet paper. Not hidden away in a closet … displayed right next to the laundry basket.

This is because throughout the duration of the marriage, if I ever asked DH to pick up TP he’d come home with ONE ROLL (from the 99-cent store). We had four bathrooms in the house. WTF? Does he imagine he’s still a college student?

I decided I never want to sit on the throne worrying about running out, ever again as long as I live. So now I have a lovely bathroom that is the envy of all my friends. Even the cleaning woman tells me every time she comes, how much she loves my bathroom.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
2 months ago

When it was very evident I would need to file for divorce following months of paralysis and uncertainty, I left for a couple weeks first to stay with my parents and took my daughter with me. For me, going home was the best place for me to take a mental/emotional break. I looked for and applied to jobs (was a SAHM – all planned out when I thought I was safe and secure to do so – surprise!!). When I got back, I put my full self into future planning – looking for apartments (we were going to have to sell the house), making a list of items I would need when things were split and I was left without, purchasing said items, searching for daycare for the baby I thought I would be able to stay at home with until she was at least another year older… anything to keep myself busy and looking ahead while my life fell apart around me. I made sure to get sleep. I stayed away from the ex while stuck in the house – made my own dinners, cleaned only my own messes, no idle chit chat, etc. I threw myself into my new job, brought things from the house to my apartment once I secured it after work. I honestly don’t remember too much about that time except this and a few key horrific interactions or realizations. I am someone who likes to investigate, plan, DIY, and so I just leaned into it for kept my eyes on the light at the end of the tunnel. It was a hellish experience, but for me it was a lot of “if you’re going through hell, keep going.” This too will end.

Last edited 2 months ago by ChumpOnIt
MrsCrumpetChump
MrsCrumpetChump
2 months ago
Reply to  ChumpOnIt

“If you’re going through hell, keep going” (attributed to Winston Churchill) – I wrote this on the ensuite mirror in lipstick. Probably about 4am!

2xchump
2xchump
2 months ago

At First I was angry at Pastors, Elders, church members, other friends many Switzerland people or worse…but as shock and horror rolled into survival, I turned every event and every turn coat person into a blessing. For example, all the Switzerland friends actually pointed me away from them to NEW friends. The leadership trial showed me I meant what I said and that no one, however high up was going to send me back to my cheaters. They helped forge me into Gold. The bank account my then husband emptied 💰half out of taught me to secure my finances. My cheater prowling the family house and wanting his stuff every few days, taught me I didn’t want to keep the house filled to the brim with his unfinished jobs and centuries of supplies that never got used..future faking. I left and got an apartment. No contact after horrible useless fights,stopped the flow of KIBBLES.His double life and lies that came to light, taught me I could not ever look back to second chances ever.Accessing police and legal support helped train me, after 2 cheaters,solved my ruminating over the loss of marriage to single sadness. Reading CL keeps me in line in case I am missing the illusion. So everything that happened to me in my 47 years of marriage to 2x illusions( it was progressive cheating so not all 47 years ) has been used for my ultimate good. My spiritual life has grown into a real connection rather than an act of repetitions….and my friends are real. I learned my family is precious and that some losses are necessary. I found the best friends, best place for me to live, best family life, best mechanic. But even more…. independence and not tied to a declining mentally ill cheater for life.That is the hugest blessing. No life sentence for me into my 70s and 80s. Yes I am Vintage now but I can forge my own star and only tie the best people and places to it.
So all the horrors of divorce and leaving 2x..I have changed to lessons learned and a deeper joy. That’s my lesson for you.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
2 months ago

In addition to making playlists to buoy my mood, I leaned into exercise. At first, there was lots of yoga, but that wasn’t always enough to take the edge off my rage at his bullsh*t. I found a gym that offered a boxing circuit type workout. Only about 30 minutes or so, but punching a trainer’s mitts at the end was completely exhausting and cathartic. I’d let out all the ugly grunts like I was a tennis player at the US open, lol. I had no shame and no f*%s to give if anyone else in there wanted to judge me, I had stuff I needed to get out! Sometimes those gym sessions were followed up by a primal scream in the car or just ugly crying. Gotta complete the stress cycle!

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

My adult daughter boxes for exercise and has really leaned into it after this all came to light. This has been very upsetting for her, too. As she says, “It’s a bitter spill to swallow to find out your father is a creep.” Exercise helps, and her gym is a really nice community for her.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
2 months ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

Forgot about this for a moment, but I also took up boxing! It was a sad day when I realized that coming one day a week (the only evening that FW picked up our daughter from daycare) wasn’t going to cut it if I wanted to really learn and develop in class, but it sure did feel good to do this at the beginning. Being able to physically hit something to extract all of that terrible energy and frustration was very helpful.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 months ago

Chumplet, those are great tips on getting through the suck.

I have a few tips about being on well and septic that you may not have heard.
You shouldn’t put strong antibacterial products down the drain. So no chlorine bleach, peroxide bleach, hand sanitizer or ammonia. You can find toilet bowl cleaners that are septic safe. Vinegar is safe and effective to use as a disinfectant for your toilet, sink or bathtub. You just have to let it sit for at least five minutes in order to kill the bacteria. A spray bottle is helpful for this. I recommend cleaning strength vinegar.
If you don’t want to clean or do laundry without chemical antibacterials and bleaches you’ll have to have the septic pumped once or twice a year, depending on how much you use. Antibacterials prevent the natural process by which waste breaks down in your septic and cause the drain field to become clogged, which is an expensive repair. Also, make sure to get a septic inspection before you buy a property.

With wells, a drilled well is rarely going to be contaminated, but with a dug well you may need a UV light disinfectant on your water line. I would advise that if the property is close to farmland you get a reverse osmosis filter system as well as a UV light, because the aquifer could be polluted by pesticides and fertilizers that could cause cancer after many years of exposure.

Don’t forget to factor in that you’ll probably need a water softener because of the minerals in well water, especially if it’s a drilled well. The minerals build up in your dishwasher and clothes washer and can cause premature failure. They can also clog your pipes over time and leave stains in your bathtub and sink. Be aware that the salt or potassium additive used in the softener comes in extremely heavy bags which you will have to carry to your basement to pour in. Once you have the bags next to the softener you can bail them out with a cup if you can’t lift them high enough to pour in, but be aware that either way this task is labour intensive and tedious. It takes six bags to fill the average softener, each bag weighing around twenty five pounds. You will have to do this about once every 1-3 months, depending on how hard your water is. Mine isn’t that hard so I’m doing it only four times a year. With a new softener you can get a maintenance contract from the installer and have them do it.

I’m excited for you getting your new place!
The FW free sanctuary I purchased when leaving Attila the Nerd is in the woods with a drilled well so I don’t even filter the water. You will have to get used to the taste of the minerals, as the water softener doesn’t get rid of all of them. I actually prefer the taste of well water but some people hate it.
Please update us on how lovely and peaceful your FW free sanctuary is after you move in. I found it made all the difference.

Chumplet
Chumplet
2 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Thanks! Your info is in my notes now. 😊

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
2 months ago

Don’t lose your connection to yourself. Do the things that make YOU happy, that bring YOU joy. Not for your work, not for your kids, YOU. Do your hobbies as best as you can. Enjoy the things that YOU enjoy-reconnect to the things that you sacrificed(let’s face it-we all had a few.)

MrsCrumpetChump
MrsCrumpetChump
2 months ago

Thank you Chumplet, CL, and CN for the great ideas, reminders, and encouragement. The first couple of months post D-Day, a couple of my key life buoys were:
1. “Put your own oxygen mask on FIRST. And if that means the dishes don’t get done, so be it.” I treasure this advice from a colleague who became an unexpected Chief Supporter and friend. So yes, sometimes when my emotional and physical energy is low, chores will stay undone so I can stop for a while; rest, and drink a cup of tea.
It has also meant I have a coffee in town FIRST after dropping kids to school, before I start work. (I’m self-employed, work from home, alone). I would normally do a few hours work before having a break. But I’ve found looking after me FIRST by going to a cafe helps my head process and put myself back together so I can face the day. It seems extravagant. But then I figure a cup of coffee is a cheap hourly rate for therapy.
2. I had candlelit bubble baths and listened to Lisa Hone’s TED talk on Resilient Grieving (she also has a book). I highly recommend the TED talk, especially in the early days.
3. Meditation… I discovered Deepak Chopra’s ” Empowered Me” meditation on YouTube, which I still listen to, to help calm and refocus. Also his ” first Front for Stress and Anxiety”, to help engage the thinking cortex of the brain, rather than be overwhelmed by the emotional limbic system.
4. CL’s blog + CN to realise I’m not alone, and that others have come out the other side who have it, or are doing it, way tougher than me. You guys are amazing, and have helped haul me out of the dark weeping hole many a night. (Thank you x)

nancytymensky@gmail.com
nancytymensky@gmail.com
2 months ago

Two thoughts kept me sane:

  1. In the end, he did this because… he wanted to.
  2. You can’t make moral choices for any other human being. Even if you could, would you want to?

We struggle too much with the who, what and whys? As a chump you have lots of consequences of your own to deal with – waste no time thinking or gloating or trying to help negate his.

Viktoria
Viktoria
2 months ago

Trauma hit me hard for a few entire years. I had to focus on helping get at least some of the trauma out of my body in any way possible. For me that looked like lots of crying, listening to online meditations, running fast (sprinting), long and challenging hikes, spending as much time outside in nature as possible moving my body, loudly playing heavy metal music and lots of time in hot epsom salt (magnesium) baths.