UBT: Not ‘Appreciating’ the Affair
Dear Chump Lady,
I’m not writing about my own story about chumpdom, which is about ten years in the past and gone from the rearview mirror. Those scars don’t hurt anymore, but my experiences have left me with a sixth sense for bullshit. I’m writing about a tidbit from a book about chronic pelvic pain that I’m reading. I’m currently dealing with possible endometriosis, pelvic pain, and nerve pain, and during the long ass wait for my surgery, I’ve been filling my time with reading books on related topics. This is from A Headache in the Pelvis: The Wise-Anderson Protocol for Healing Pelvic Pain by David Wise and Rodney Anderson; specifically, Chapter 5: Understanding How Your Attitude Affects Your Condition and What You Can Do About Your Attitude:
We treated an accountant with GASP [Guilty or Anxious Sexual Pain]. He reported that during tax season, a period of significantly increased stress in his life, and while at odds with his perfectionistic and judgmental wife, he had an affair with the secretary of one of his partners. He expressed great shame over his behavior, as he considered himself a morally upright and religious man. He said that his moral values would never permit his infidelity, but somehow he did it anyway. His affair went on for a little over a year. His wife discovered his infidelity and he went through a period of anguish with her. They sought counseling and he expressed his remorse repeatedly during their counseling sessions, promised never to do this again, and begged his wife’s forgiveness.
Things more or less went back to normal in his relationship, but it was at this time that his pelvic pain began. Initially when asked whether he had experienced any intimacy, stress reduction, or beauty in his extramarital relationship, he could not find any value in it. He had difficulty focusing on the question of whether the affair served him in any way. He appeared not to want to appreciate what he got from the affair and instead repeatedly returned to his self-judgment and self-condemnation. Upon reflection, he reluctantly admitted that his extramarital affair had brought him comfort, pleasure, self-esteem, and stress reduction but quickly reiterated that these benefits could not justify his behavior.
He had great difficulty in conceiving that he could forgive himself for his behavior. When he was asked what he imagined would happen if he forgave himself for his infidelity, he answered that if he forgave himself he just might go back and do it again.
My heart bleeds for him, Chump Lady. How could an accountant possibly know that tax season was going to be a stressful time of the year? And, of course, the only way to cope was to fuck his partner’s secretary for an entire year. (How long is tax season anyway? I forget.) No word on whether the wife ever suffered chronic pelvic pain from her anxiety. She’s just some judgmental perfectionist who manifested in his living room one day and refused to leave.
Most days, I don’t think about my ex-fuckwit. He’s just some fuckwit I used to know. But then I stumble upon bullshit like this and I get angry all over again for my younger self who was spending her days in a constant state of confusion, anxiety, and fear, finding herself on the receiving end of arguments and accusations coming from seemingly nowhere, and always feeling like she was in the wrong somehow and could never make up for it. The scars don’t hurt but that sense of injustice when my own support system turned on me will probably never fade. I guess it’s the tragedy of the chump condition that we can’t appreciate the beauty of an extramarital relationship.
Radio Friendly Chump Shifter
****
Dear Radio Friendly Chump Shifter,
Thanks for this depressing read. I wrote my book and keep this blog going because the resources out there purported to help chumps still peddle victim-blaming bullshit. But apparently even the repentant cheater isn’t safe from quackery. He appeared not to want to appreciate what he got from the affair? For fucks sake. These are DOCTORS. Put aside the devastation of his wife, who was playing by the monogamy rules (hey, but you’re judgmental!) — what if he got an STD? Should he appreciate THAT? The genital warts were worth it!
I think this says a lot about the perspective and blatant misogyny of David Wise and Rodney Anderson. With their implied message of “Fuck around. It’s good for your health!” Loosen up, Baby.
A pox on them both. Like, literally a pox. Oozing pustules on their nether bits.
The Universal Bullshit Translator will now take a stab at this. (As Chump Lady is feeling stabby.)
We treated an accountant with GASP [Guilty or Anxious Sexual Pain].
Insipid acronyms are a pastime of ours. There’s also GARGLE — Guilty Anxious Rectum-Gripping Large Enemas; GOON — Guilty Over Ongoing Nookie; and GRIP — Greasy Rancid Infected Penis.
He reported that during tax season, a period of significantly increased stress in his life,
Every April 15, like werewolves, accountants turn into cheaters. File early.
and while at odds with his perfectionistic and judgmental wife,
Frigid bitch deserves to be cheated on. Accountants cannot abide perfectionism.
he had an affair with the secretary of one of his partners.
I’m sure his partner didn’t mind endangering their practice with sexual harassment and hostile workplace environment lawsuits one bit.
He expressed great shame over his behavior, as he considered himself a morally upright and religious man. He said that his moral values would never permit his infidelity, but somehow he did it anyway.
It’s a shame he felt shame about morality and values.
His affair went on for a little over a year.
But apparently he discovered a flair for deceit and compartmentalization.
His wife discovered his infidelity and he went through a period of anguish with her.
HE went through he anguish. It was a “period of anguish” through which he went. Whatever feelings his wife had about these discoveries are canceled out by her judgmentalism and Type-A ball-busting personality. This was hard on the poor sausage. And his, um, sausage.
They sought counseling and he expressed his remorse repeatedly during their counseling sessions, promised never to do this again, and begged his wife’s forgiveness.
And you can trust a guy who quit because you busted him.
Things more or less went back to normal in his relationship,
She ate the shit sandwich. He kept his 401K.
but it was at this time that his pelvic pain began. Initially when asked whether he had experienced any intimacy, stress reduction, or beauty in his extramarital relationship, he could not find any value in it.
WRONG ANSWER.
It was beautiful! A star-spangled, bedazzled, magnificent affair! Conducted in the backseat of a minivan in a Walmart parking lot. With furtive hand jobs in the copier room. So much stress reduction!
He had difficulty focusing on the question of whether the affair served him in any way.
This is utterly at odds with the bullshit couples therapy sessions where he has to feign remorse.
He appeared not to want to appreciate what he got from the affair and instead repeatedly returned to his self-judgment and self-condemnation.
You got so much from this affair. Your wife’s devastation. A strange rash on your balls. The threat of divorce and losing half your shit. I can’t imagine why you would question this. We are medical professionals. Let us help you with the proper perspective: Fuck with impunity.
Upon reflection, he reluctantly admitted that his extramarital affair had brought him comfort, pleasure, self-esteem, and stress reduction but quickly reiterated that these benefits could not justify his behavior.
He quickly reflected that being single did not suit him. He needed a wife appliance. And comfort, pleasure, self-esteem and stress reduction were things that he could never possibly get from a healthy marriage. Respecting his partner was out of the question.
He had great difficulty in conceiving that he could forgive himself for his behavior.
Yes, why apologize or make amends? Forgive yourself! Take God and the people you harmed out of the equation.
When he was asked what he imagined would happen if he forgave himself for his infidelity, he answered that if he forgave himself he just might go back and do it again.
But no more GASP!
Be free little fuckerfly! Wiggle your wang! Ravish the flowers!
Your wife is home organizing the canned goods. Perfectly alphabetizing them. Judging the lesser pantry items. She is so unfuckable. Forgive yourself for your affairs. They are yours to enjoy. As is your tidy kitchen closet. And your clueless, traumatized wife.
Ah yes, another case of “affairs are okay because they happen for a reason and that reason is that your wife at home sucks.” Tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme and a depressingly popular mainstream trope.
Right? It isn’t like there are things one can do to change the situation, like therapy, or even divorce. You know, being fair to the other spouse? But you know, stress. She was JUDGEMENTAL! PERFECTIONISTIC! Sounds like “frigid” in a new package. The myth of the frigid wife.
Or, she had morals and expected him to adult without a bunch of weaponized incompetence.
I remember complaining about my ex’s weaponized incompetence, namely that if I asked him to help clean up after I cooked, that he didn’t do a very thorough job, and I’d have to go back and re-wipe down the kitchen, because the counters were still greasy and crumby. (Not to mention re-washing utensils.) Her answer? Men and women don’t see “clean” the same way.
Funny, one of the first guys I dated after my ex had no problem getting the countertops clean when he helped me clean up after we cooked together.
I mean, it really sounds more like the guy mostly needed a urine test and probably antibiotics.
Also, he failed the “when they tell you who they are, believe them” test if he legit said if he forgave himself the result would be that he’d do it again. If he knows he’d do it again, he isn’t sorry, he’s embarrassed he appears to be the guy he actually is.
Nothing to work with there.
Now his wife probably needs antibiotics too. Yeesh.
Erm, apparently pelvic and lower back pain caused by prostatitis due to chlamydia, trich or gonorrhea infections of the urinary tract can linger if the antibiotics weren’t absorbed deeply enough into prostate cells. Ask what compelled someone without a prostate to read up on stuff like this.
Did you find a link to prostate cancer ?
My immediate thought was that he might have had an STD underlying the pain.
Ah Janey, I’ve just read back my first reply and I am SOOOO JUGEMENTAL!!!
Oh nooooo, lol!
You’re right he’s not genuinely repentant. We’re supposed to believe God forgives us when we repent and, as a result of that, we’re supposed to forgive ourselves but humbly endure any of the unpleasant or painful consequences we’ve brought on ourselves by our sins. It’s called expiation. If he’d genuinely repented, both of the grave offense to God and the pain and suffering he caused his wife, he’d be looking at getting spiritual guidance and also psychotherapy to tackle the deep weaknesses in his character and soul, whilst avoiding what we Catholics call “Occasions of Sin”.
As CL says, to be safe to reconcile with, a cheat’s got to have the humility they need to do the hard work of earning their BS’S trust, to become safe and honourable, and to bear all the flak they so richly deserve in the meantime. That takes great moral and emotional strength and courage, which is why so few cheats can do it! This clown sounds like he’s self-pitying rather than humble, repentant and contrite!
It’s the wife I feel for anyway!
No Amiisfree, he needed validation that cheating was OKAY. From two medical professionals.
Right? Validation kills micro-organisms! Heal my pelvic pain via ethical shenanigans!!! 😀
This reminds me of the Tuskegee Experiment starting back in the 30’s. It was run by medical doctors and allowed Black men infected with syphilis to go untreated. No informed consent was involved. Penicillin was readily available, but not prescribed in order to study the disease long term. The inevitable deaths and suffering were justified by the medical knowledge to be gained.
These MDs are basically saying that sexual betrayal of your wife without her consent is OK because it gave you some short term positive vibes. Abuse is OK, because you are male (White) and your partner is female (Black). If a male (White) benefits from cheating on the female (Black) that is what matters most. After all, the females are perfectionists and judgemental (Black’s are shift less, lazy) and this is a consequence of their poor character.
Nothing has changed.
The book “The War Against Children of Color” by reform psychiatrist Peter Breggin goes into the gruesome details of the Tuskegee experiment and other unethical medical experimentation on minorities. The fact that I threw up on page 40 probably wouldn’t be the most enticing Amazon book recommendation but I’m not sorry to have learned about the horrible extremes that junk science theory can lead to. In an era when laws and policies are often grounded on scientific theory (whether true or not), participating in democracy requires a degree of literacy and knowledge of these things. One of the lessons from history is that, when science goes off the rails, it does so in spectacular ways (eugenics, race theory, Victorian rest cures, blood-letting, old-timey psychosomatic theories about ulcers, etc.).
I’d go so far as to say “poor character” is an excuse that covers up misogyny/racism: “poor character” because of who they are: female (or Black).
Indeed, Bruno. Everytime I think about that heinous breach of medical ethics, I feel sick to my stomach, and I’m not a person who would have been their target. I can’t begin to imagine the horror of being a person who could have been a target of that monstrousness. In my head, I rename it Tuskegee Torture. There’s no ‘experimenting’ about it. It’s abominable.
There’s no licensure that ensures the licensed person isn’t a sadist, a psychopath, an extreme narcissist, etc. There aren’t typically health licensure police that patrol practices for bad behavior. These monsters can get away with so much, and they’re rarely caught. And when they are, they can often afford the best attorneys, so they’re often hard to prosecute.
It’s unlikely that the health professionals who wrote reviews read the entire “poorly edited” 500 pages. I still wish they would be held accountable. Any chumps know this this person?
“Since its first edition, A Headache in the Pelvis has been enthusiastically welcomed by patients suffering from urological pelvic pain syndromes (UCPPS), … Although I recommend A Headache in the Pelvis to all of my patients, I have happily discovered that more and more physical therapists are recommending the book to their referring doctors and to their patients. In many ways, this book communicates effectively to a wide audience, as it is accessible and empowering to patients, interesting and insightful to health care providers.”
—Jeannette Potts, MD, director, Center for Pelvic Pain, Alternative and Medical Urology Services, Urological Institute University Hospitals of Cleveland, Case Western Reserve University
I’ve now finished the book and I wouldn’t recommend it. My OBGYN suspects I have endometriosis of the sciatica nerve but I won’t know for sure until my surgery in October. I think Amazon suggested the book, not anyone on my care team. (My pain doctor actually recommended The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, which I already have.)
The authors do recommend seeing a doctor and a physical therapist and just reviewing this book on the side.
I left it out of the letter, but this chapter was actually about how untreated anxiety and catastrophic thinking affects pelvic pain. Specifically, a part about how sexual guilt or shame can lead to a chronic tightening of the pelvic muscles.
One example was a woman who had survived rape. The other example was this fucking accountant. My eyes rolled so far back into my head I could see my own brain.
Somatic bs theory is the crap that fills the gaps when science can’t figure out or can’t agree on what’s causing a physical illness– or when it’s politically dangerous to name the cause. That’s not to say that severe traumatic stress can’t increase the risk of illness but there’s plenty of evidence that this can be due to the way that shock, trauma and stress hormones disrupt sleep, depress the immune system and inhibit appetite and digestion, leading to a perfect storm that paves the way for infection or susceptibility to autoimmunity. But when, say, a bunch of teenage girls in an Upstate New York high school simultaneously developed tic and seizure disorders after the district allowed fracking on school grounds and locals were reporting they could light their tap water on fire, I think it was probably due more to leaking of naphthalene in fracking brine– a chemical known to be “toxically synergistic” with estrogen (causes more neurological damage in the presence of estrogen, which teen girls are typically enduring roller coaster spikes of)– than to the “Freudian mass hysteria” that fracking-invested news publications claimed caused the outbreak.
That said, it makes sense that domestic violence survivors are more prone to breast and other cancers than average. But there are two different schools regarding the role of trauma in disease. One focuses on how interpersonal abuse– including experiencing domestic violence, chronic discrimination and social marginalization– can make people more susceptible to disease due to understandable psychological factors that impact physiology and pragmatic factors like lack of safety or access to medical care. The latter tends to focus on the roles of social justice and awareness in allaying risks. Then there’s the view that quarantines disease risk to the “negative thinking” of victims. But wouldn’t it be easier to “think positively” about oneself and humanity if there were any justice and wide social and pragmatic supports for victims of interpersonal abuse or other forms of social trauma? And the latter seems to assume that victims were “predisposed” to negative thinking and that this also likely led them to be victims in the first place. What a load of crap.
Anyone want to take bets that the so-called professionals who wrote this tripe and those who enthusiastically support it are also cheaters or flying monkey apologists?
What I don’t understand is the BS being peddled that chumps are cold, Puritanical perfectionists in the sexual realm. While I don’t participate in a wide wide variety of sexual behaviors personally, I support anyone else’s right to enjoy whatever freaky thing they do so long as it is all honest and above the board! It’s the lying and betrayal I have a problem with.
Ugh, these two douches sound suspiciously like followers of Jacques Lacan, the plagiaristic, rabidly misogynistic so-called father of modern psychoanalysis who was also a serial cheater who poached his friends’ wives, stole their priceless original books and named his dog after the sex slave from Marquis de Sade. Not only did he blame mothers and wives for their sons’ and husbands’ suffering and faults, his theories extended to entire countries and fueled repressive or murderous policies.
“Planck’s principle” is the idea that old theories in science won’t make way for new ideas until the purveyors of the old concepts croak. Yet Lacan’s influence has continued to zombie on long after Lacan’s death. His ideas remain negatively relevant to fields related to domestic violence because, wherever you see academic-sounding victim blaming, you usually don’t have to dig too deep to find bits of Lacanianism. I don’t think any US universities still teach Lacan with a straight face but some of Lacan’s acolytes cling like emeritus tumors in various university departments spreading disguised Lacanian concepts like misogynistic breadcrumbs feeding new generations of quacks who are attracted (probably for demented personal reasons) to victim-blaming junk science.
I assume the idiocy never goes out of style because these ideas are just new fangled versions of age-old “vagina dentata” myths or “Malleus Maleficarum” crap assigning women with mystical powers to “make good men do bad things.” It’s not like men are safe from extreme Lacanianism either since Lacan forged handy condemnations for men who don’t properly hate, blame, dominate and repress women and/or who oppose repressive patriarchal policies. Men like that are cast as the p-whipped destroyers of culture. In France, which subscribed to Lacan’s theory that autism is caused by “crocodile” mothers who destroy their children due to viewing them as “penis replacements” (??), dads who didn’t agree to divorce and take children away from “dangerous” wives could sometimes lose custody of their children to the state. Under Franco and various Latin American military dictatorships which subscribed to this weird psycho-political hash of Lacanianism and Lamarckian eugenics, members of the opposition were detained, tortured, subjected to “psychoanalytic experimentation” and killed and their children stolen and adopted by supporters of the state to “lessen the expression” of “emasculating feminine political psychopathy” in subsequent generations.
HoAC,
The father of the family I worked for as an au pair my first year in Paris cofounded the International Lacanian Association in 1982, according to his obit in Le Monde. The mother was his second wife and about twenty years younger. Their two daughters were flower girls at their wedding after his first marriage was annulled. The bride Jezebel wore a red flamenco dress even though she has no Iberian ancestry (just Russian and French). M. collaborated with J. on books, etc. and got a ride on his professional coattails. His daughters from his first marriage would come over for dinner or lunch;one married and didn’t have children and I don’t know what happened to the other one. M. used the husband of her step daughter that married to renovate an apartment she purchased for her own daughters when they attended uni. His daughters with M. ? One is a psychopharmacologist in London and the other an attorney in Paris. I missed a big shrink gathering party they had in their apartment on the rue de Rennes because I was helping some French film students with a project.
M. was a nasty piece of work. I can only imagine how vicious she was to J. when he got old and became a burden. She got the apartment and a little chateau down near Toulouse where both she and J. hail from. La folle.
I have a second cousin who married and had kids with a French Lacanian and academic who already had kids from a prior relationship (and likely had more with various students). A sour, nasty, pretentious little POS. I referred to him as “le sperm donor.” My relative left him in the middle of the night with her kids after he spent a full day ranting about how she was destroying her four year old with too much attention and affection.
This is interesting and explains a lot. I don’t know anything about Lacan but I want to learn more about this. Going to look up sources and do some reading!
I shared some links in another comment above. There’s also the scandal over the brutal treatment of children with autism in France which has Lacan’s name all over it. https://www.spectrumnews.org/opinion/reviews/documentary-review-le-mur-the-wall/
Hell of a Chump, you hate Lacan too–I agree with you 100%! (Am a retired English professor, and the Lacanian fungus still flourishes in my field.) But I had no idea about the uses to which various dictators had put his theories. Here’s my own perspective (as you’ll see, this essay briefly mentions Lacan): https://thepointmag.com/criticism/when-nothing-is-cool/
When a shitty concept is useful to both radical authoritarian left wing and right wing pundits, I guess that defines it as “totalitarian”– sort of a Swiss army knife of repression. Lacan’s theories– which seems to be the boiling down of the most misogynist aspects of Freud– have found equal favor on the right and left except that fascists tend to rebrand it.
Spain apparently went gaga incorporating Freudianism into left and right political theory even prior to Franco. Then Franco’s Nazi-trained chief psychiatrist, Antonio Vallejo-Najera, who claimed to be anti-psychoanalysis (a suspiciously “Jewish” tradition), liberally borrowed from Freudianism and mixed it into a toxic stew with eugenics and Catholicism to create the loony red gene theory. Vallejo-Najera, like most narcissists, didn’t like being defined and also denied being a eugenicist, arguing that eugenicists would have killed the many thousands of children that Franco’s regime stole from suspected Republicans and displaced, but I think it’s stupid to expect cohesiveness from Francoist psychobabble. https://libcom.org/article/morality-and-biology-spanish-civil-war-psychiatrists-revolution-and-women-prisoners-malaga
Like Vallejo-Najera disavowed Freud and eugenics while using both, Lacanians vehemently deny “common geneology” between Lacanianism and Francoist psycho-political theory but whatever. Lacan was so full of shit it’s like reading astrological predictions. Anyone can draw what they want from his contradictory theories which is why you’ll see people citing Lacan to demean women or, on the other hand, defending Lacan as anti-patriarchy. But I think Lacan peppered his bullshit with a lot of fodder for fascist misogynists especially. Vallejo-Najera’s successor, the head of Barcelona University’s psychiatry department under Franco, even had an ongoing correspondence with Lacan from the 1950s to Lacan’s death. During this period, the thefts of children ramped up further and became monetized. Some argue that the language used to justify these practices started sounding distinctly Lacanian, particularly the bit about mothers’ “desire” for their children being like the “jaws of a crocodile,” a suffocating, quasi-incestuous influence that children must be rescued from (by selling them on the black market!). The military juntas in Argentina (where Lacanianism was like a religion) and Chile copied the practices as well as the justifications but took it a little further and killed the mothers after they’d given birth. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/magazine/spain-stolen-babies.html
I’d like to know what actual clinical trials were done with this method of pain relief. Sounds like the placebo effect. Also if they are reading it alongside actual physical medical treatment and physical therapy, not sure how they can credit the book for any results. Very poor, woo kind of way to treat physical symptoms.
For real, when I read “whether he had experienced any intimacy, stress reduction, or beauty …” — I thought it was an auto-correct error. Beauty?! That can’t be what was meant. Beauty?? Then I re-read it, and yeah, that’s what they meant. BEAUTY!!! Beauty at betraying your spouse for a whole year! Beauty at permanently breaking her trust. Beauty at lying to your business partner.
The mind reels.
I think it was meant literally on the popular concept that side pieces are always younger and hotter. It must be an enduring idea because even I automatically assumed the same when I became suspicious of cheating. Consequently discovering that the AP looked like Bobcat Goldthwait in a stringy wig threw me a bit.
So much beauty in sneaking off to bang an employee in a broom closet. Butterflies and flowers, that.
“He had difficulty focusing on the question of whether the affair served him in any way.”
CL nailed it. That these doctors were trying to get him to FOCUS on such a question, persistently it seems, reveals that they are Class A misogynists who think it’s perfectly good and beneficial to cheat with an office secretary. Probably cheaters themselves. Disgusting drivel in a book that’s supposed to help sufferers of endometriosis, etc. 🤮
Yeah, I notice the secretary was rather written off in their considerations. Just “a bit on the side,” a thing (plaything, in this case), an object to be used for “stress relief.”
The misogynistic idea of telling someone that their very real pain is “all in their head” is dangerous, too. Women especially get ignored when they talk about their symptoms, and later it turns out their doctors ignored things like endo, cancer, etc. This is a real issue in medicine and these yahoos are encouraging it.
Have we ever had an Acronym challenge? Sounds like one is long overdue . . .
I’ll start, based on my own experience:
Mine suffered from RIPCORD: Rage Induced Promiscuity and Certainty of Righteousness Disorder
SMARM— Sado-Misogynistic Adulterous Replacement Mommy syndrome?
I’m seriously stretching the acronym limits, I know, but sounded like fun.
The FW described in today’s blog I see as:
MR. DUMPSTER FIRE:
Misogynist’s Reality:
Deep Unmet Ministrations, Pelvic Sadness, Towering Eternal Rage………For I’m Ridiculously Entitled!!!
( maybe I should have skipped the, seldom drank, second cup of coffee today!) 😝
Holy fuckerflies, UXworld! I’ve seen some RIPCORD in my day.
Are you familiar with HAYRIDE? (Hubristic Attachment to Youth, Rapacity, Insolence, Deviance and Entitlement)
It’s way more common than you’d think. Flares up in the fall.
“Flares up in the fall.” Bravo.
Ooohhh, UX … Good one! Cheating Bastard Ex had a bad case of the PIMPS … Procuring Internet Meetups Penile Satisfaction.
Rage Induced Promiscuity and Certainty Of Righteousness Disorder
As soon as I read the description of his wife I knew this was going to be bullcrap. Perfectionistic and judgemental? I bet she just wanted him to pick up his dirty socks and stop peeing on the rim of the toilet. I’m sure he never exaggerated her personality flaws to anyone, ever. eyeroll. My FW lied about me and my behavior to everyone and anyone who would listen. I was frigid, mean, pushy, judgemental, ignored him, etc. He failed to mention that I was the only one working, would come home to a dirty house and him messing around on the computer, and I would assume full care for our toddler at that time and he’d run off to do whatever with his “friends” instead of look for work. But yeah, I was judgemental. Ok.
I see I’m not the only one who thinks he more likely has an issue that needs antibiotics, not woo pretend psychology. I don’t feel sorry for him, only his wife who also probably needs treatment as well. It’s not like forgiving himself will be the reason he cheats again. If he doesn’t forgive himself, he’ll do it again because he couldn’t forgive himself. In other words, he’ll cheat again because he wants to. Any excuse is made up.
But this book seems to be something I’d consider harmful. How many people will not seek adequate medical treatment if they think their pelvic pain is “all in their head”? Stress can do a number on people but I’m not seeing how this method could cure anything. Snake oil and bad advice. Ugh.
Ding ding ding! Couldn’t have said it better myself. I posted in a reply above how our couples’ therapist totally validated my ex’s weaponized incompetence.
I was so “impossible to please” because I expected my ex to want to spend time with his family on the rare occasions he was home (mind you didn’t say he shouldn’t spend time with friends or golf (fuck golf!), but maybe when time is scarce, prioritize your wife and young child?).
Only one is an MD, and his specialty is WOMEN. The other is a pyschologist.
They’re in business together. I wonder how they’d feel if one of them starts an affair with the office staff?
Here’s how they describe themselves on their fancy business website:
DAVID WISE, PHD Dr. Wise spent 8 years in the Department of Urology at Stanford University Medical Center as a Visiting Research Scholar working with Dr. Rodney Anderson in the development of a new treatment for prostatitis and chronic pelvic pain syndromes. He suffered from chronic prostatitis/CPPS for over 20 years until he recovered from it. Dr. Wise is a licensed psychologist in California and his research interests are in behavioral medicine and autonomic self-regulation. He is a musician, painter and carpenter.
RODNEY U. ANDERSON, MD, FACS Dr. Anderson is Professor of Urology (Emeritus-active) at Stanford University School of Medicine. His sub-specialty clinical expertise is NeuroUrology and Female Urology. His focus has been on chronic pelvic pain syndromes, pelvic floor dysfunction, interstitial cystitis, benign prostatic hyperplasia, urinary incontinence, urinary retention, spinal cord injuries, spina bifida, multiple sclerosis, Parkinsonism and stroke. He has also directed a clinic devoted to the problem of Female Sexual Dysfunction. He continues to be actively engaged in clinical research at Stanford on the Wise-Anderson Protocol and other research. He is a classical pianist and enjoys painting and golf.
Not everyone that golfs is a misogynist, but there sure are a fuckton of misogynists that play golf.
I’ve heard that the name GOLF came from “Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden.” Speaking of acronyms and misogynists.
(Just what I was thinking as I read Curly Chump’s comment).
I grew up in northern NJ and one of the fancy schmancy golf clubs has a policy that widows can’t keep their membership once their husbands croak. But any widowers can.
#notfaironthefairway
Not to sound sexist, but he directs a clinic for “Female Sexual Dysfunction”, coupled with his suggestions to this particular patient in the book, I just don’t see this as being a good thing. I mean, my primary care doctor is a specialist in women’s health and I trust him implicitly, but something about this guy sets off my warning bells. Forgive me if I don’t take everything he says as scripture. How many of those women get told their sexual dysfunction is all in their head? 🙁
They WANTED him to continue the affair, find another AP, and continue to put money in their pockets. Not only on their nether parts but any orifice should have some pustules as well.
Just when I decided to stop commenting here I read this! I am getting so cynical that I go on line to find news about kind people. First though I have to read through the latest Karens, airplane crazies before a decent one pops up.
Thank you, Tracy, for having this forum. I wonder how many folks are now on this site. I know reading so much misery must mean you have to take deep breaths but you are almost the only voice out here in the wilderness of entitled people who poison so many lives.
Letgo, I know what you mean about looking for things on kind people. The news can be deeply troubling to follow, that’s for sure!
I’m reading a book right now put out by Reader’s Digest called “Everyday Kindness”( inspiration for a meaningful life) by Stephen R. Covey.
I am so enjoying it, short little snippet stories of known and unknown ppl that are really powerful and amazing. I am enjoying it so much! Gives you renewed hope in the world. Check it out.
It’s “Everyday Greatness”, the title of the book, not kindness.
It’s past my bedtime, lol.
Undiagnosed STDs can cause chronic pelvic pain in both partners…let’s all hope he’s got one. Didn’t Samuel Pepys die of complications of the clap? Pretty sure he did.
I think he might have, it was endemic up until anti-biotics were developed, along with the pox-syphilis!
There’s now a strain of anti-biotic resistant gonorrhoea now though, probably due to the overuse of ABs! FWs beware…and chumps too!
Those doctors must be cheats themselves! Forgive himself for cheating? He’s only reaping what he sewed! Consequences!
Even MORE disgusting and repulsive is the complete absence of compassion or even concern for the betrayed wife! Oh so she’s “perfectionist and judgemental” is she? Or is she just some one who is conscientious, responsible, loyal and has high moral standards? Someone who takes her vows to her husband and to God deadly seriously? Is she trying to please God rather than herself? Oh No!!! She’s a horrible old harridan, a Holy Joe ( my FW called me that once and it hurt me a bit; it’s a nasty put down used here in Ireland for people who go to Mass and have the nerve to talk about God occasionally! Not nice!), no wonder he had to betray her and stab her in the back, she deserved it the ould bitch!
Boils my blood to read such sewage! I totally get how the LW feels!
OMFG I can’t even. Why do misogynist asshats get to spew bullshit, stick their “Dr.” credentials on it, and people believe their gaslighting like it’s the gospel? I only hope the wife reads this and finally abandons that turd of a FW.
Can you imagine — he can’t forgive himself because then he might cheat again… even though his affair wasn’t beautiful or worth it or whatever. And he has pain in his pelvis. Fuck him and those idiots.
Excuse my angry tirade. I’ll go make more tea and calm down lol
Yes the book excerpt made me want to scream. Thankfully, the UBT calls out misogyny wherever it is found!
I call BULLSHIT!! More dribble making excuses for sorry ass men, makes me want to 🤮
Oh this!! Tracy you are priceless!! A+ on cutting through the crap pile of lies,self serving drivel, entitlement, ME ME ME and zero consequences except a box of Kleenex for your vending machine wife,the cost per year? Worth saving your retirement fund from her. Then maybe, maybe one day another woman,well she has to be handy,close by too, and there goes that wad of guilt and shame and pelvis twitching because,hey, you remember the joy of Deceit, and stress reduction. A wife appliance is never safe, never ever. If it did not hurt him to hurt her and the confession came ONLY when busted. Nope, not holding. My heart hurts for my sisters im affair triangles, unaware!! The ones who love with their whole soul.I had to leave 2 cheaters, well one left me, out of his raging conscience after a 3 year affair I had no idea about except he was so so mean. The second cheater i left. So I’m gathering my crushed heart and pray to never ever lay under or over another cheater again. Fixing my cheater alarm system as we speak. Thank you CL and CN for reminding me that I HAVE VALUE, even as a single woman with a hamster. My body just healed from the last STI! AMEN HALLELUJAH FREE AT LAST.
I knocked myself out giving him comfort, pleasure, self-esteem and stress reduction for 34 years (while being the domestic and raising a houseful of kids). He still chose to indulge in a secret life of sex workers & co-worker fuxkbuddies, for the added misogyny benefits of power-over me, coercive control of me, wife appliance services and duper’s delight, fooling me into believing his claim that he was the faithful, upstanding, morally upright husband….. right.
Because it never is about some vague “unmet needs”. It’s about control, full stop. They enjoy the control and cake and kibbles. They will never be happy because wherever they go, there they are. They can put on a good show, though. That is what they enjoy. I’m sorry you have also endured that. There is nothing a chump can do, they can never dance well enough to truly “win”. It is demoralizing, but know that you didn’t fail. The game was always rigged.
David Wise, one of the co-authors, is a psychiatrist with a PhD and walking proof that you should never go to therapy with your abuser. This sad fuckwit sat on in his couch and spewed all these lies and David fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
I’m a good man, I cheated on my wife and only stopped when I got busted.
I got nothing from the affair, but I still carried on for a year.
Okay, I guess it boosted my self-esteem a little, but I needed the boost, my job is really stressful.
My wife is a judgmental perfectionist, and no, I’m not going to divorce her. I begged her to go to counseling with me instead.
Cheating on my wife helped my stress, it didn’t burden my mind at all.
I had a year long affair, but I’d say our marriage is basically the same as before.
The book was a letdown, to be honest. It wasn’t what I thought it would be. But this part got under my skin and I couldn’t let it go.
Thanks for running my letter, CL.
This guy was your marriage counselor?
I think she’s paraphrasing the patient in the book.
Yeah, I was just paraphrasing the book. I wasn’t married to my fuckwit (thank God). David Wise should’ve picked up on all the contradictions in his client’s story, with his professional background, but he didn’t, for whatever reason.
All the comments on here speculating that his client’s pain might’ve come from an untreated STI or something just breaks my heart even more for his wife. I have no way of knowing but I hope she divorces him, if she hasn’t already.
AP actually formally argued, in court, that the affair was good for him and for his marriage.
Details: AP’s wife was trying to recover money spent on the affair partner (my wife) during the affair. In their state, this is “dissipation of marital assets” and not subject to the normal 50/50 division. AP argued that this spending was actually for the benefit of the marriage because his affair “opened his eyes” to see how much better his life would be without his marriage. It wasn’t even a life-changing amount of money (4 figures at most; not even a rounding error compared to the bitcoin wallet he was denying existed): this was purely a fuck-you to his wife.
Every once in a while I run across some social media post along the lines of “why do you hate the person who had an affair with your spouse? That person didn’t break any promises to you” and I recall things like this to remind myself that AP is just genuinely an asshole independently of anything he did to me and my marriage.
I see that a lot too. “You can’t blame him/her for what your partner did”. Only if they were chumped as well, it does happen. However, if they do know? They are complicit and you don’t have to let them off of the blame. Now I don’t think I care much about the AP, they are actually inconsequential because if it wasn’t that one, it would be someone else. APs are interchangeable because FWs cannot bond.
“That person didn’t break any promises to you” ” I seethe when I hear or read this.
In my view both adulterers are equally responsible for the destruction they have caused to other(s). There should be legal consequences for their theft alone. My ex’s whore stole thousands of dollars of marital assets that she knew darn well I had no clue about. They were co conspirator’s in that theft against me.
The person knowingly driving the get away car is equally responsible.
Wow. Just . . . wow. I’d have given anything to see the look on the judge face upon hearing that bit of pretzel logic.
Well, he didn’t win with that argument. I’m pretty sure that all the lawyers involved (AP’s and his XW’s, who knew each other and had to have candid discussions about things like “how can we get AP to actually divulge details of his finances so the divorce can proceed”) agreed that it wasn’t a valid legal argument but AP wanted it put forward anyway. I’m sure it actually cost AP in lawyers’ fees, but in the end it was never about the money: it was all about rubbing it in his wife’s face, formally and on the record, that he had chose his affair partner over her.
Around the same time AP also “accidentally” forwarded to his then-wife a large number of sexts from the affair. (AP is an IT professional. No conceivable way this was an accident).
He also chose to reveal the affair / end of marriage in the lobby of his wife’s work. She collapsed on the floor and vomited while all her colleagues were walking past her as they returned from lunch.
Basically, he was needlessly, gratuitously mean. Just nasty. I am confident that I wouldn’t be friends with this guy even if he hadn’t been the person who had an affair with my wife and destroyed my marriage.
What a vindictive, cruel and sadistic creature your XW’S AP is! That poor woman ( AP’s poor unfortunate wife), I hope she’s recovered now!
Your XW landed a real prize there, didn’t she? Well, when he hands the same cruelty out to her, she’ll be reaping a bit of what she sewed, won’t she? I wouldn’t be shedding any tears for her either!
He didn’t destroy your marriage. Your ex-wife destroyed your marriage. If it wasn’t that mean, ugly prick, it might have been a sad sausage prick. Your ex-wife felt entitled to do what she did. I totally understand hating the Affair Partner. But in reality, it it wasn’t that jerk, it would have been another. The way that I see it, the Affair Partner (a skank in my fuckwit’s case) did me a humongous favor! If I didn’t find her so disgusting, I’d actually tell the skank, “Thank You!!!”
Ditto.
Amazon, I think your perspective here is absolutely amazing, incredibly healthy, and likely to put any Chump that adopts this mindset many steps ahead on the road to “meh”. But I just can’t quite get there, not fully and I think it is something a lot of chumps struggle with.
In my case, I agree that if it wasn’t her, it would of been some other woman. And I do see it in some ways as a good thing. Cheating is abuse and in most cases as we read here, the cheating is not the ONLY way they abuse their spouse. It does seem to be the straw that breaks a lot of chump’s back. Mine included. I have not enjoyed a minute of this process, but soon, I will be FW-Free and that is a good thing, and sure, the AP inadvertently helped that to happen. Not out of the kindness of her heart, mind you.
She knew he was married with a young child, and she got involved and actively encouraged him to leave us. Her dad died when she was young, and she also had her child very young (16-19)
and raised them alone. She struggled financially and still does. My FW was determined to have his cake and eat it too and was constantly trying to figure out how he could have her in a real and unhidden way in his life…without also being the guy that deserted his family for a woman 15 years his junior. He told her he wanted to be with her, but would always take care of us. And I think she loved that because she was sick of struggling on her own and wanted someone that would be that determined to take care of HER. She told him that she was fine with all that………….. until she wasn’t. Mind you they were making all these grand plans before I even knew she existed, no one seemed to think that maybe I wouldn’t want to stick around for this. To be clear he wasn’t suggesting a throuple or open marriage. (Not that I am interested in that) He wanted to buy them a house on OUR street, move her in, have my kid split time between the 2 homes, and have us all together for holidays and sunday dinners. She told him she was fine with all that…. and then as time dragged on, she started demanding an all or nothing situation. I don’t blame her for that, the idea was LUDICROUS. But it is hard for me not to have hard feelings knowing that she went into full press “leave your wife” mode. Yes, it’s his job to keep the promises, but that is still super shitty behavior on her part.
Medical professionals?!
The only redemption for their advice is if they conclude with, “… And the next round of antibiotics is on us!”
“Accountants cannot abide perfectionism.” 😂😂 CL – you’re the best!
JFC just the first 3 sentences of this chapter made my head explode – especially the throwing in of the derogatory adjectives about the wife – and it just got worse!
As always the UBT is right on. Especially:
“Frigid bitch deserves to be cheated on. Accountants cannot abide perfectionism.”
“She ate the shit sandwich. He kept his 401K.”
“Be free little fuckerfly! Wiggle your wang! Ravish the flowers!
Your wife is home organizing the canned goods. Perfectly alphabetizing them. Judging the lesser pantry items. She is so unfuckable. Forgive yourself for your affairs. They are yours to enjoy. As is your tidy kitchen closet. And your clueless, traumatized wife.”
And I loved this by the OP:
My heart bleeds for him, Chump Lady. How could an accountant possibly know that tax season was going to be a stressful time of the year? And, of course, the only way to cope was to fuck his partner’s secretary for an entire year. (How long is tax season anyway? I forget.) No word on whether the wife ever suffered chronic pelvic pain from her anxiety. She’s just some judgmental perfectionist who manifested in his living room one day and refused to leave.
I cannot even with this crap….
How totally and unbelievably bizarre. The UBT was awesome today! It’s just so, so hard to believe the stupidity. Are they even real medical doctors? Are they licensed? Is it okay to be that stupid and still be a licensed medical doctor? GASP!!!
Alas, I too was a “judgmental perfectionist wife.” I was also very controlling. I mean, not controlling enough to know where he was any hour of the day, or to even have access to our bank accounts, or to know whether the amount of income he claimed on his taxes was correct (spoiler alert: it wasn’t), and certainly not controlling enough to stop those pesky bills for phone sex lines from coming to the house. BUT I was controlling. I would say things like, “What is this mysterious bill with no information attached to it?” and “You said you were going to the grocery store six hours ago. Where were you all day?” And he knew I would be very judgmental about it if he told me the truth, so he had to lie! I was perfectionist! I demanded that he be faithful to his vows every day! Not even two or three days a week off my relentless expections of fidelity! I mean, he had to cheat. There was no other way. But don’t worry! He totally forgives himself!
Carol39- I think we were married to the same guy. I was a perfectionist because I wanted a garage that wasn’t loaded to the brim with crap. I couldn’t find the shut off valve to the water main when the plumber needed the water off. I got upset and wanted the place cleaned up so I could find things. Hence I’m a controlling perfectionist. Yet I had no control of all the lying and stealing. 🙄
Would anyone else be completely judgmental of an accountant who wasn’t a perfectionist? Who was fast and loose with the numbers and what was or wasn’t a write-off? Doesn’t everyone want the risk of a chainsaw audit thanks to someone to whom they pay good money?
But his WIFE, his WIFE took it all too far!
There isn’t anything that can completely rid my mouth of the distaste I feel for the accountant and these two misogynistic wastes of space.
Nothing more judgemental than describing someone as ‘perfectionist and judgemental’!
I can see why they would use this example of pelvic pain in a male, but their editorializing is horrible. I happened to work with a physical therapist for pelvic floor dysfunction and I gathered that it’s a well known condition but that practitioners skilled in it are few and there is not a lot of research documenting favorable results.
The doctors could have explained that an inability to relax and an inability to fully feel safe can lead to that condition. In the accountant’s case, he probably had severe anxiety over whether he’d be “caught.” I doubt whether anyone can feel safe with an AP. It may be exciting to have an affair, but relaxing and safe? Probably not.
In my opinion, the physicians writing this case study had no need to mention any characteristics of his wife – it was totally his choice to have an affair. If he had spent time training for a marathon to deal with job stress and ended up with a knee injury, would health care professionals describe his wife?
Seems like they have some other agenda.
I’d hate to sit in a waiting room reading crap like that.
Aside from their total BS about cheating, these “doctors” had a patient who was suffering from pain and guilt. How about rather than trying to tell him he shouldn’t feel guilty (which he should) they could have treated him by saying something like “Yeah, you fucked up royally dude. You hurt your wife and it’s probably a good reaction that you feel like shit. Your body is responding to that so maybe you could make sure you’re not blaming her and take a good look at the situation and work on being a better person. Then you can focus on the source of your pain.” I’m flabbergasted they thought that finding goodness from the affair would help – this is just flat out dumb advice and missing the point totally. Sitting in his pain and accepting that he hurt someone else is probably more of what he needed. True contrition really hurts.
DAVID WISE, PhD, partnered with Stanford urologist Dr. Rodney Anderson in developing the Wise-Anderson Protocol for pelvic floor related pain after he resolved his long standing condition pelvic floor pain. He is a psychologist in California and his research interest are in behavioral medicine and autonomic self-regulation.
RODNEY U. ANDERSON, MD, FACS, is professor of urology (emeritus-active) at Stanford University School of Medicine. His subspecialty clinical expertise is neurourology and female urology. He continues to be actively engaged in clinical research at Stanford on the Wise-Anderson Protocol and other research. (Earned his M.D. in 1968). His last research publication according to Stanford was in 2018.
So one is a bullshit artist and the other has blown his cover as a misogynistic creep.
I’ve never met a cheater who truly was remorseful
His pain is likely repressed anger at being held accountable for his betrayal
Maybe the pain was from an u diagnosed STD
I am glad to see the spotlight on the mindfuckery of counselling. I hope it encourages all chumps to really examine the precious time and money they are expending and and actively evaluate possible benefits they are seeing. Obviously misogyny, victim blaming and dangerous theories of so called, “counselling protocols” are highlighted in this post. But I’d like to address the more insidious theft of time and money that happens on a daily basis when you have someone who is not actually helping or delivering real results. I cringe when I see chumps talking about years in therapy, and they don’t seem like they are close to MEH at all. I think they would have seen better results talking to a pet or the four walls. I am very much in favor of therapy for a short time, or especially specific therapy with proven results such as EMDR, Complex PTSD Therapy, ie., specific behavior therapies. I have two friends that are therapists. Neither one of them are even close to impressive or the “sharpest knives in the drawer”. They are positively gleeful about the huge demand for therapists since the pandemic. I asked them both what specific therapies they used. Both were very evasive, basically just said they listened to people for the time allotted. They are both chortling about how much money they make. One drives a Maserati, the other bought a house on Martha’s Vineyard, (multi-million dollars) a few years ago. If you have been in therapy for any length of time and you feel like your therapist is just “listening” to you, just know there are other therapists out there. Expect and demand results.
Great post, luckychump.
Additionally to my earlier comment, any chump who has been in therapy for a while should examine whether their therapy is producing results and whether their therapist is competent. Understand not everyone who has the title “therapist” or “counselor” has the professional expertise to help you, and indeed has a vested interest in continuing your “therapy” for as long as you will continue paying.
It is amazing that someone can become a doctor, and still have no clue about physical manifestation of mental/moral dysfunction.
Evidently a doctor can come up with a weird acronym for some symptom(s) but cannot fathom that the symptoms would never have appeared if the patient had only behaved the way he should have. Why, oh why, would someone “need” to have an affair? There must be SOME motivation? Some NEED not being met! Shocker! Of course, it was somehow his spouse’s fault!
Alert the malpractice insurer! There may be a crisis in Diagnosis!
Snort! #TeamJudgmentalPerfectionists
As others have noted, there is another, more likely diagnosis for his pain; an STI. It sounds like these “doctors” didn’t even investigate the possibility, but jumped on this phony GASP nonsense. I have a GASP for these clownasses; Go And Suck Prick.
His “morals” didn’t allow for affairs, yet he did it for a year? Methinks that was not his first rodeo.
Yeah, funny, I was stressed out beyond belief when I realized that being a retail pharmacist was no longer and never really was a good fit for me, and had no good options to replace it and support my family in the lifestyle they’d become accustomed to. It sent me into a tailspin of deep depression which hung around me like a dark cloud for the next four years. Until D-day forced me to realize, it could always be worse!🤣
Yet, somehow, I managed not to fuck around on my controlling, perfectionist (you didn’t load the dishwasher right. Again), sex-once-a-month is what I’d prefer fuckwit of an XW. Instead, I tried to tell and show her how much I appreciated her and all she was doing as a well paid administrative assistant for the chancellor of our state college system (I was better on the tell than the show in my depression).
It was her job that had the added benefit of providing tuition-free enrollment at any of our state colleges for our family, allowing our oldest child (my older daughter) to get a reasonably good college education pretty much for free, and our younger daughter her first year of college for almost no charge. This all of course came crashing down when their mother decided to exit-affair me w/said chancellor.
All while I was sinking into a deep, dark depression, yet respecting my wife, marriage and family, the FW XW was discarding me and my family (my brothers, sister and mother) for at least the last two years before D-day, and working on seducing and being seduced by her fifteen years older, rich, forty years (unfaithfully) married boss.
Granted, maybe I wasn’t in as good a position to be tempted like this FW accountant, but I’d had temptations at least twice in our married life, and yet never acted on them. Somehow, the FW XW meant more to me than risking my marriage, family and body (dare I say my soul?) for some strange.
And, please. I’m not perfect. Far from it. I can be a stupid asshole like anybody else. But I always, ALWAYS knew there were certain lines you did not cross. And, despite her shortcomings, I loved the FW XW. Just like I thought she loved me, despite mine. She was the mother of my three children, and I thought she was the love of my life. I had pined for her since high school, and convinced her to be w/me in late college.
So, these two doctors can go fuck themselves. All our stupid accountant had to do was say, I’m unhappy w/the current status of my life, and with our marriage. I want out. Be that separation (without fucking around) to give him a different perspective on things, or divorce. And maybe a new job that isn’t as stressful.
The thing is, we all have reasonable, morally and ethically sounder options in our lives. Not easy ones, but whoever said being good in life was easy? If you’re not “good,” then you risk suffering. If you are good, you still risk suffering! The difference to me is, by being of good or better character, when all’s said and done, no matter what has happened, you can at least still respect yourself.
And at the end of the day, be that your actual day or the metaphorical end of your life, you can hold your head up knowing you tried to do your best when things got tough. I think that counts for a lot. Trying to truly love others for who they are, sometimes despite who they are or where they’re at in life, is maybe the rest.
I’m writing this at 0400 this morning, so hopefully this makes sense. I’m on vacation and my son and I are at an Airbnb in NC which has a constantly beeping electronic door lock due to a lack of good batteries, we think. My son has been unable to sleep tonight because of it, and I’ve been up since I went to the bathroom at 0330.
Unfortunately, my almost eighteen year old son doesn’t have my perspective (yet, I hope someday he will) that these things happen. He’s just pissed off that he can’t sleep at all w/the constant beeping. And nether of us has a screwdriver that might help us solve this problem.
We all know there’s a lot worse things in life than being kept up all night by an annoying noise. And that problems are usually best handled diplomatically and w/at least some basic respect if another person/being is involved (I sent a non-nasty text to the hosts of the Airbnb that they’ll hopefully see upon waking about the problem). I guess this accountant never learned those basic life lessons. So he deserves what he gets. The shithead. Those doctors, too.
Lots of love to all of CN, and peace. Right now, peace from a stupid beeping electronic door lock would be good!😂
I had a different reading on the therapists’ perspective here (as a therapist myself).
I don’t think they were pushing him to find “good reasons” to have an affair, but rather encouraging him to identify “how this affair was of benefit to you”, in terms of stressing precisely that he did get his jollies on and to underscore how selfish and misguided that is (when you’re married to someone else).
Then it would have been easier to point out he acted out of entitlement and that, yes, apparently feeling good is a value that trumps respecting his family (that pesky tax season shifting all the priorities /s).
Unfortunately this guy is not the Christian he thinks he is, and not just because of adultery, but mostly because he doesn’t seem to recognize “I cheated and dont know why and might do it again” is a hallmark of spiritual oppression and a test of strength of character.
He seems narcissistically invested in his faith, and like he sought support only because he failed HIS OWN moral standards. That’s entitlement and ego, too.