UBT: “You’re not capable of forgiveness.”

forgivenesstrollbunnyDear Chump Lady,

I’ve been divorced since February but now my ex is asking if we can “try again.” His last text tirade started with, “I miss you so much and want to be your man again. I still love you so much. Will you give us another chance?” I texted back, “I’m not falling for your bullshit anymore.” He spins out of control with dozens of unanswered texts before I finally block him. Here’s a sampling of his rant that I need help decoding, because I stupidly read his mind puke and now I feel the hurt all over again only worse than ever:

“You’re not capable of forgiveness. You’re damaged goods. Damaged since childhood.”

“There aren’t enough years in a lifetime to gain your trust back. You’re a man-hater; a woman scorned.”

“Good luck finding someone at your age. And good luck with your health problems too.”

“Hope you find a big one to ride, that’s all you really need to settle you down a little.” (There are several of these types, most include comments that he’ll miss my “skills.”)

“I’m going younger, she works at Notre Dame. Want to hear about our adventures? You know you’re curious.”

This is when I blocked him thank goodness. What’s your take on what he’s really showing about himself? I need perspective to shake this crap off of me!

Thanks,

Micha

Dear Micha,

I don’t think you need the UBT to realize this shit is just hateful. Boy, you can sure see how deep his desire to “try again” is. Look what you’re missing! Who could ever resist this guy’s charms?

But you want to UBT it? Okeydokey.

“You’re not capable of forgiveness. You’re damaged goods. Damaged since childhood.”

The problem isn’t what I did, the problem is your reaction to it. The problem isn’t ME, the problem is YOU, you’re damaged!

(So, uh, the way to get the best out of a “damaged” person is to cheat on and insult them?)

The whole “you’re not capable of forgiveness” is pure cheaterspeak. Roughly translated it means “you’re not capable of rug-sweeping.”

Your cheater is not going to do the hard work, or find humility, or empathy for the horrific hurtful things he did, or make amends or restitution. No — he’s going to blame-shift this on to, the REAL problem of your inability to “forgive.”

Apparently, you’re congenitally incapable of it, so why he’s expecting it, I have no idea, what with your damage and all…

If he were truly desirous of reconciliation and forgiveness he wouldn’t attack you. Can you imagine the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa if people behaved like this?

“Yeah, okay so I firebombed your family and stabbed your grandfather as he walked to church. What the fuck is your PROBLEM? You black people are incapable of forgiveness! I guess they just breed you that way.”

Amnesty or civil war? What’s your best guess?

“There aren’t enough years in a lifetime to gain your trust back. You’re a man-hater; a woman scorned.”

Boy it sure sounds like he still “loves you so much”! The guy divorces a vicious man-hater like you, and he can’t wait to get you back?

Again, same tactic. The problem isn’t him, it’s you. It’s your inability to trust, insert insult here (because you’re a woman scorned, a bitter bunny, a withered little raisin of hate…)

So what exactly has he done to earn your trust, except send you insulting texts?

“Good luck finding someone at your age. And good luck with your health problems too.”

The Cheater Curse: I’m The Last Person You’ll EVER LOVE. You were lucky to have me, because you are UNLOVEABLE!

Projection much?

Anyway, it’s just more hate. Aged people with health problems find love every day. He’s doing the abusive tactic of trying to frighten you into a relationship with him by running you down. Who else would have you? You’re a NOBODY! If he succeeds in eroding your self-esteem so much that you take him back, I promise you, he’ll just build that fortress bigger the next time.

You escaped this shit. STAY escaped.

“Hope you find a big one to ride, that’s all you really need to settle you down a little.” (There are several of these types, most include comments that he’ll miss my “skills.”)

He’s misogynist too. What a lovely person. I can’t imagine why you divorced him.

I hope he finds a big one to ride, up his ass, in jail, after he’s violated your Protection From Abuse order. Consider one, seriously. If he keeps harassing you, show these texts to your lawyer and have him formally put on notice for criminal harassment.

“I’m going younger, she works at Notre Dame. Want to hear about our adventures? You know you’re curious.”

Oh, the loss of kibbles! It’s devastating. Want to hear about our adventures? No. Yawn. Not curious.

The guy is desperate for centrality. He misses cake and the pick me dance. Dance pretty again! DANCE MOTHERFUCKER!

Please don’t let this creepy, hateful asshole hurt you. You took the garbage out when you divorced him. Let that shit stay at the curb. NO CONTACT.

If you ever needed a reminder of what you’re missing — he sent it. I’m sorry, please don’t give this guy the power to hurt you. Like you need validation of your worth from that monster? He’s gone, gone, GONE. And you are FREE!!! Don’t ever invite his hate into your life again. ((Hugs))

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Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
8 years ago

Well said, CL.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Agreed. This exchange with the ex reminded me of CL’s post about the three channels on cheater TV…https://www.chumplady.com/2014/09/the-mindfuck-channel-only-has-three-stations/

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
8 years ago

“The Mindfuck Channel” should be up there under “Cheating Decoded.” This post explains so much.

theluckeone
theluckeone
8 years ago

Divorce Minister – I needed that link more than anything else. This is my STBX to a tee!!!! I cannot even believe what I was reading. I am no contact and the 3 channels are rolling in!

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

Thanks for posting this link, DM. I hadn’t yet found CL back then, this would’ve helped, but I guess all things in due time.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Most welcome, TheBetterJamie.I think that post is one of CL’s best.

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

I am constantly looking for good sources of information on Personality Disorders. The more I read and educate myself the more I see his painfully obvious bullshit. I found one just now that I thought was really good and thought I’d share 😀

http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/understanding/

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

NC, this quote was in the link you posted: Changing the behavior of the victim does not change the behavior of the Personality Disorder.

This^ should’ve been the disclaimer to every single book we discussed the other day about saving your marriage. This phrase should seriously be printed on the first page of every save your marriage book…then you’d know, if I’m dealing with a disordered person, everything written in this book, all the advice is erroneous.

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

I am still browsing the last few days comments… I have been busy with end of year stuff with my son at school and trying to pack…. so i haven’t been on as much. I agree with you ALL 100%!!!

Changing the behavior of the victim does not change the behavior of the Personality Disorder.

Yes Jamie…. that ^^^^ should be a disclaimer for any article/book for victims of the disordered!!

I am glad I shared the link, that article helped me more than most that I have read about personality disorders. My Xhole fits EVERY single core feature on the 2nd page. The only one that doesn’t apply 100% is the “social disruption” he is an absolute attention whore… but not disruptive… it would taint his “nice” guy image.

TheMuse
TheMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

NCStevie, thanks for that link. There is another great article linked there that I have read before that explained why I stayed in the toxic relationship for so long: Stockholm Syndrome.

http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/stockholm/

“n abusive and controlling relationships, the victim has the sense they are always “walking on eggshells” — fearful of saying or doing anything that might prompt a violent/intimidating outburst. For their survival, they begin to see the world through the abuser’s perspective. They begin to fix things that might prompt an outburst, act in ways they know makes the abuser happy, or avoid aspects of their own life that may prompt a problem.

For me, this explains why I never dared question anything he did, and never suspected him of cheating. I was pretty much brainwashed. And afraid of him.

About a month after D-Day when I told Ex I was going to counseling, without skipping a beat, he asked, “is it for abuse?” and you know what I said, I said “No” because I was afraid of his response; endured too many narc rages and couldn’t tolerate anymore.

Thanks for the link.

Donna
Donna
8 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Muse, this is a great link. The very first thing I said to my therapist was that I wanted to know how to stop loving someone who could erase me from his life like I was trash after putting up with years of forgiving his cheating. I was diagnosed with Stockholm syndrome. I am finally able to breath now after a year. I no longer love the toxic abuser. Every night I can sleep peacefully knowing he is finally out of my life.

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Oh… and you are most welcome 😀 for the link that is.

moose
moose
8 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Ncstevie, thank you for posting this. I needed it today for some long overdue closure. It is bookmarked and I will refer to it again.

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

I was never afraid of Xhole, he would rage to get me to “drop the subject” whatever that was at the time…. but I was never afraid of him physically. I was afraid of him leaving me…. this is my 2nd round of “single motherhood” and I didn’t want to do it alone again…. put myself through an ungodly amount of bullshit for 8 years just so the asshole could walk off anyway.

I KNEW I was being manipulated and bullied…. had NO idea I was being abused. People NEED to be educated about silent abuse.

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

yes that was my experience also. i was never afraid of him hurting me physicAlly. it never dawned on me that he was hurting me mentally and emotionally.

i was afraid of him leaving me. and took so much abuse for that. i did not want to divorced. i did not want to be alone. or a single parent. sad thing is i already was alone and a single parent. i just didnt realize it.

i also did not think that our marriage issues were so bad. i mean i knew we had problems but for me they were little problems that every married couple went thru. i honestly thought we could work it out and i was raised to never give up. unfortuantly, he wasnt raised like that and does not have the same standards as i do. everything he ever told me for me to believe that he did was just a lie. i never had to deal with disordered and dishonest people so i didnt even see it until the end. well after the end, the this whole othwr side of him that i never even saw in 14 years came out. he is NOT who i thought he was.

i wish i knew but now all i can do is teach my children. i dont want my daughter OR my sons to go thru what i did.

Elizabeth Lee
Elizabeth Lee
8 years ago

That’s a great post, DM. It reminds me of the guy who says that narcissists only see people 3 ways. They are a toy to be played with (turn on the charm), a tool to be used (self-pity), or an obstacle (rage).

Micha, don’t let the ravings of a crazy man bother you. It takes practice, but you’ll get there.

TheMuse
TheMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  Elizabeth Lee

well said, Elizabeth: “They are a toy to be played with (turn on the charm), a tool to be used (self-pity), or an obstacle (rage).”

kb
kb
8 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Yep. One of my friends is now extricating herself from a marriage with a narc. While she has no evidence of a PA, she certainly has seen a lot of inappropriate texting with some woman in a different part of the country, so the EA is there. He did the classic narc stuff with all of the above. He love-bombed my friend til she married him, and then he started using their preschool daughter as a tool for his self-pity. Now he’s in full-blown narc rage.

And yes, he’s a professor of developmental psychology. He knows exactly what he’s doing, the evil bastard!

TheMuse
TheMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  kb

My narc cheater Ex also majored in psychology, though he did not pursue a career in it… incapable of any career really. But yep, knows how to employ the mind games.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago
Reply to  kb

Yeah, my ex-wife is a licensed marriage therapist who is now doing her Ph.D. work in her field. They DO know what they are doing. Really sick and evil.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago

No, Miss Sunshine, I am not joking. I remember her looking me straight in the eye and telling me that after lying about the inappropriate nature of her relationship with the OM. It was to distract me from her adultery and put me on trial. She was a smooth operator and accomplished manipulator. Too bad for her I wised up and now am happily married to someone worth my heart. Btw, she also told me she was being faithful to God in that conversation…I just responded that I believed her that she believed that (i.e. REALLY self-deceived!)

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago

You’re JOKING, right, DM?

Nothing?

These people are complete screwballs.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago

Yeah, btdt, I think that ship sailed a long time ago. Pretty sure she is or was counseling couples. This from the woman who denied cheating (months later admitting she lied then) and told me the OM (she was screwing) had nothing to do with our marriage issues.

beentheredonethat
beentheredonethat
8 years ago

Scarey, someone might go see her for marriage therapy!

Kimberly
Kimberly
8 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Awesome response cl

ChumpedUpChik
ChumpedUpChik
8 years ago
Reply to  Kimberly

Egads! What a colossal POS! Yes to what everyone else probably already said…NC and maybe expect him to try one of the other main tactics (channels). My guess is the anger and hate will soon dissolve into whining and snotty crying (just for effect). CL is right, you don’t want to let that thing near you again, stay strong!

Scott
Scott
8 years ago

I was called a “sinking ship”. She posted all kinds of drivel on FB about how she had to purge her past to move forward, there was no passion, no love, she felt alone, and a whole bunch of quotations that seriously mean nothing. The truth is, if she’d look in the mirror, she isolated herself, was in a terrible mood all the time, chose not to engage her spouse or children in a positive and loving way, and had mental issues she refused to address.

I look at her now, 2 years plus later and know she’s just a horrible person with terrible issues, and I’m so very lucky to be away from her. You’ll feel the same way. Seriously. But it does take time.

So Micha, it isn’t easy and even now I still have moments where I hurt and feel the loss. On the other hand, I wouldn’t trade where I am now to go back to that monstrosity. Good for you for cutting the terror out of your life. This dude is an emotional abuser. Walk away, forever.

There’s a whole world of decent people who wouldn’t dream of saying what he said, let alone put their spouse through infidelity. Good luck to you.

Let go
Let go
8 years ago
Reply to  Scott

Scott, I do not understand why these idiots don’t realize that their stupidity is on view forever! FB is a great tool for staying in touch but this kind of stuff is just nuts.

Buddy
Buddy
8 years ago
Reply to  Scott

Scott,

Same story with me. She isolated, withdrew, obsessed about whether the OM really loved her or was just using her, etc.

At the same time, tells herself and her close friends about how she was transforming, undergoing metamorphism and telling herself and me how we no longer had the passion and couldn’t get it back – and all this went on for a long time while she was hoping the OM would sweep her away to a better life.

But what she was really smugly saying is “I am better than you. I know true love now because I have a side dish fuck who is so enchanting. I deserve more now that I have tasted this true love. You may be nice and a good dad but are just on a lower plane and can’t offer me this deep connection and passion, and since I bankrupted our finances, you can no longer offer me the lifestyle that I deserve, etc etc etc”

The reality is that she is a now a sad, non-functioning, pathetic, manipulative emotional roller coaster.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Scott

Oh damn, I was called “a bucket with a hole in the bottom”.

Your projection is showing, STBX.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

Micha, what a perfect example he sent you of how getting rid of him was a wonderful idea. You’re through the worst, you’re already out, and yay for that!

This all reads like my toddlers uncontrollable anger when she gets a toy taken away for poor behavior. The difference? HE’S A GROWN ASS MAN.

I say wish him and his younger lady friend all the best of narc sociopathy misogynistic hell. He’s clearly already so committed to her, what trying to “get back” with you and all. He’s learned nothing from losing you, Micha….he is who he is and you deserve much more than that.

ChumpedtotheMax
ChumpedtotheMax
8 years ago

The funny thing is, once these narcs are unmasked their charms wear off and they can’t keep up the BS for long. First it’s how much they love you, then the abuse starts when you don’t fall for it. Mine X came over on Saturday, told me how much he still loved me and didn’t want the divorce. When I questioned if he loved me, then why hire the expensive attorney to make sure he got into my savings and my pension? His charm wore off quickly after that and entitled jerk came back out. I wonder how I ever fell for his BS.

If they really loved you, why cheat, why be abusive, where is the remorse? What I can’t understand though, why try to keep up the false narrative that they really loved us and didn’t abuse us and why keep trying to get us back?

deepbreaths
deepbreaths
8 years ago

Thank you all a thousand times! I’m one small step closer to meh after reading your comments and feeling your support. I’ve considered protection order but since I moved 650 miles away from him I feel safe enough. Besides, aren’t they all just cowards underneath it all anyway? We have a few months of business dealings left to untangle before I can go full No Contact but he’s blocked from phone and texts. Here’s the crazy thing (and I hope it serves as validation for someone out there…we are NOT crazy or imagining things or paranoid when we suspect we’re being chumped-off): our break-up was triggered because I asked him about a picture he “liked” on Facebook. I didn’t even know what I was asking about really, but talk about tip of the iceberg! He blew up like a powder keg, left and never came back. And believe me, I wasn’t accusing or suspicious at all at the time. But his over-reaction made it all too obvious that I had stepped right into one big pile of cheating shit. Thank goodness I had jut enough self esteem and cash left to get a lawyer and keep him out until I could relocate. Maybe the greatest lesson I’m learning is that I CAN trust my instincts and believe my own lying eyes instead of second guessing myself. Call it intuition or our guardian angels or instinct or good old fashioned common sense even. Learning to believe in myself again is the take-away. Hugs to all and thank God I found CL! This blog is the best!

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago

I just (like 48 hours ago) found out that Xhole is changing history. somehow it is ALL MY FAULT but even after the divorce he is changing the story. how i didnt let him see his kids on Fathers Day, and even when i reminded the kids went out of town but we celebrated Fathers Day on the friday before, and reminded him that fathers day did not fall on his weekend, he STILL said he didnt see them on fathers day. then he only saw them for 10 minutes (it was 3.5 hours, we cooked him dinner, had cake, the kids gave him their cards and gifts AND they watched a movie)…..oh right, now he remembers. (the whole time his girlfriend was telling him what to say)…..BUT then he starts trying to tell me that he had them on mothers day (which was true, it fell on his weekend and we werent doing anything) but that i b*tched and complained about it (which is not true, i didnt say anything before, during or after the visits, and i told him that)

Seriously, it AMAZES me how easily he has forgotten or twisted the truth. of course, with his homewrecker telling him what to say. now he listens and believes her and everything i say is a lie. WTF. i have NEVER lied to him in the whole time we were together.

it finally hit me like a ton of bricks as he sat there and yelled at me for 10 minutes, while his hood rat was in the back ground whispering shit to him……..that i dont need this shit. i was not the one who didnt come home and stayed out all night,i was not the one who lied, sneaked around and hide things from my spouse, i was not the one who didnt pay bills or support my family, i was not the one who walked out on my wife and kids, i was not the one who hasnt seen the kids in 11 months, i was not the one who is sneaking behind his back to see the children at their schools and getting denied, i was not the one who refuses to visit where the children are most comfortable, hell i get to see them everyday.

his entitlement is crazy. his FOO issues are crazy. his rewriting history even recent history is crazy. his home wrecker girlfriend is crazy, his attitude is crazy, his forgetfulness and hatefulness is crazy, his life is crazy…..and the little boys and i dont need that kind of crazy around us.

KarenE
KarenE
8 years ago
Reply to  mrsvain

Mrsvain, you NEED to stop letting him talk to you like that, you need to STOP ‘explaining’ or ‘reminding’ of anything, and you need to stop worrying about what he’s telling people.

He’s clearly crazy, but people will figure that out, as will your kids. And YOU need the peace of not having to deal with this crap.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

No Contact, honey. Get the visitation times, if he does it, set up. Set up emergency communication in the event something happens to the kids. Set up a dedicated email account. Send an email with calendar attachment once a month. Tell him to communicate with you by email. And as KarenE says, stop. You don’t need this filth in your life.

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

thank you both!!!

i have finally found some peace

Cheryl
Cheryl
8 years ago

“once these narcs are unmasked their charms wear off and they can’t keep up the BS for long”

So true! Narcissism is a disorder of the personality, it’s lifelong, and unalterable. The narc learns early, however, that the true self is not always appealing to others and the mask comes on. Chump Lady is so right when she says Trust That They Suck. The real them, under that mask, sucked yesterday, sucks today and will suck every day for the rest of their lives (and beyond). They will never genuinely seek forgiveness because they will never believe they did anything wrong.
For what it’s worth, my husband was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer and given 6 months to a year to live. When he realized that none of us were of any use to him anymore, he completely dropped the mask and we got to see the full-on real man. Literally “no more mr. nice guy”, he was mean and nasty and cruel, and made it quite clear that we were of no value to him. All those tear-jerker movies where those last moments are filled with remorse for the mistakes, love and thank-yous for lives shared, and tender goodbyes? Nope, not going to happen. His last words to his son were to curse at him for letting the nurse put in a catheter. His last words to his daughter were to tell her to stop screwing up her life. His last words to me were that I could use the life insurance (cut down to almost nothing without telling me) to pay off “some” debts he owed (turned out to be 100K). Here was his chance, with death staring him in the face, to make it right and he would not, would not, would NOT admit he had done anything wrong. And your narc won’t either.

tony
tony
8 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl

powerful stuff.

I hope you did not have to pay off his debt.

Cheryl
Cheryl
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

Lawyer said the 80k in credit cards in his name only was not my problem. I chose to pay off state and federal taxes (I was in no shape to fight the government) and local business suppliers (small town – I knew most of the people/families who would have had to take the loss. And they still talk about what a great guy he was). Only thing I regret was the $1500 I withdrew from my retirement fund to pay vacation money to his secretary so she could go to Hawaii to get over how sad she was that her boss was dying. Poor thing. That was before I found out about their 7+ years affair. Just call me a chump.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
8 years ago
Reply to  Cheryl

Cheryl, you are a good person and a chump. Jedi hugs!

Cheryl
Cheryl
8 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Thank you Datdamwuf. That’s one of the nicest things anyone every said to me! 🙂

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago

Ummm… Yeah! Prince Charming? NOT! Tells her basically what a “broken person” he imagines her to be, but apparently he just can’t wait to see if she’ll try again with him! Seriously, I mean, who wouldn’t jump on that “prize”? *snark* * *Gag*! Chumplady is spot on. Block “it”, get a protection order, and let the lucky little “younger” lady??? Have that piece of crap! You deserve better! No doubt you could swing a dead cat and hit a perfect stranger who shows you more respect!

Drew
Drew
8 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Lol. That swinging cat can hit all sorts of nice people. I am still dealing with a psycho who tries to tell me how to live my “poor pitiful life” and is incapable of understanding how it was his very deliberate actions that lost us a lot of money. Who wouldn’t be pissed about that?!? Can not wait to get toxic out of my life!

uniballer1965
uniballer1965
8 years ago

The only answer to something like this is, “You may be right.”

It doesn’t mean he is or isn’t. It doesn’t go into why you may not be able to forgive, such as it takes a repentant sinner to be forgiven. If they don’t think they did anything wrong, why would they need forgiveness? A concept foreign to most cheaters.

moose
moose
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Uniballer…so true. In order to have your sins forgiven, you have to be sorry. My STBX is dealing with a load of guilt right now. Does that mean he is changing his behavior, saying sorry to those he hurt or trying to make amends? Nope.

JustAroundtheBend
JustAroundtheBend
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

If they don’t think they did anything wrong, why would they need forgiveness?

Good logic. I’ll try that next time.

the other response that I have given is “Have you / they forgiven me?” That question will elicit the question “for what” to which I answer “for whatever I did that made you nasty / cheat on me / whatever in the first place.”

That’s one way to stop the conversation cold dead.

Casey
Casey
8 years ago

During MC, XH told me that our MC asked him if he (lying cheating ex) could forgive me??? FOR WHAT I ASKED??? I never got an answer…..

I just found it utterly ridiculous. I felt I was a great supportive wife and I have been and am, a damn fine mother. I did nothing to warrant his lying cheating ways…that is and always will be on him.

It is sad though that some MC will also play into your above question. 🙁

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago
Reply to  uniballer1965

Yep ^^^ They might know it, that they did wrong…. but they will NEVER EVER admit it…. nope nope nope!!!

JC
JC
8 years ago

Good post, CL. It’s fascinating to see the flip from calm to rage when a cheater doesn’t get what he wants.

One thing to consider:

I’m no expert on court orders. However, I did read in “The Gift of Fear” that these tools have the potential to backfire, as the harasser takes them as an affront and then “doubles down” on the harassment. In other words, an order from the court (such as a restraining order) it’s just another form of attention, which is what harassers feed on.

Has anyone here obtained a court order like these? Did they work? De Becker (the author) was a proponent of good old No Contact as the best tool to get a harasser out of your life.

Mighty Mite
Mighty Mite
8 years ago
Reply to  JC

JC…this makes my situation make sense to me now! We had temporary orders put into place that covered finances, business dealings (we own a business together) and living arrangements. There were a list of things he was supposed to stick to in regards to the business (I had proof he was diverting income). He disobeyed every single stipulation and seemed to enjoy the attention every time I called him on it or took him to court over it. I finally was exhausted from having to babysit him and go through the turmoil of confronting his behavior, so I just stopped one day. And he started harassing me to try to get me to take the bait to start confronting him again and I simply refused to play and stayed No Contact. Guess who’s now obeying the temporary orders? That’s right..the narc! Apparently, once I took all the attention away by not confronting the bad behavior, he had no reason to continue to behave badly and so he stopped!!

Chumpguy
Chumpguy
8 years ago
Reply to  JC

Someone who was being harrassed finally snapped after an enormous number of phone calls and responded. DeBecker’s comment was that all the response did was to inform the guy as to what the cost was to reach the victim.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpguy

“inform the guy as to what the cost was to reach the victim.”

I couldn’t put this into words. Thank you, Chumpguy. I knew deep down this was MO of certain narcs.

I have someone trying every angle except disclosure and truth trying to weasel back into my life. He is trying to see what the cost is to reach the victim…

…as long as it doesn’t unmask the liar.

Instead of harsh words, it’s smooth talk with this cheat.

Let go
Let go
8 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

Calamity, I had never been around someone who was a true narcissist before. I met a woman at work and became her “best friend” within two days.(not by choice) This was a giant red flag but because I had never dealt with anyone like her before I did not recognize it. She called every day. If I went someplace without her her feelings were hurt. She wanted me to go everywhere with her until people began to think we were a platonic couple. That was so far from the truth in my mind but not in hers. She would not take no for an answer. She would beg and whine and wheedle to get me to go places with her that I was completely disinterested in. She made sure that where ever she was I was to be there and where ever I was she was to be there. As I got to know her I found that she had married, cheated a couple of times and her husband, who must have been the most forgiving person ever, told her to behave herself or else. You can imagine how much she listened to that. She cheated again and then left. He was smart enough to find himself a very nice woman and remarry, happily. The idiot would not, and could, not stay out of his business. His wife hated her. The interesting part is the children all chose to live with their father. She told me that she had taken things from her office that did not belong to her and thought nothing of it. When she was found out she was nearly fired. I still do not understand how she got out of that. She is so facile and charming that people who meet her and only know her for a short time think she is delightful. I can tell you she was a leech. She began misquoting me to the point that I ask my husband if I was losing my mind. I knew I had not said what she thought I had but she was determined that she was right and I was wrong. My husband just told me to be careful if I was going to continue. The problem was some days she was so much fun to be around that I would think she was doing just fine and then this crazy person would show up. I cannot tell you how many times I have been embarrassed in public by her behavior. When I think that I put up with that craziness for nearly 10 years I am so embarrassed because I am smarter than that. Once I heard her belittling a very good friend it was the last straw. I stopped answering the phone, I made sure I was busy anytime she wanted me to do something and she is finally out of my life. So far, from what I can tell, she has run through several other groups of friends. I think if she was given a thorough psychological exam she would be found to have borderline personality disorder, narcissism and histrionic personality disorder. I cannot imagine what being married to her was like. She remarried and she and her husband were so volatile but they loved the attention they got. It took my husband one time being around them to say never again. She would go on ad nauseum about her pitiful childhood. From what I can tell it was not all that pitiful. I think she was born with the genetic make up that was easily turned in to this person. All I know is having her out of my life is like being able to breathe again. I hope any of you who are dealing with these personality disordered people understand nothing changes. Ever. I gave her so many chances as a friend to behave herself, to stop trying to own me, to just be normal and she could not do it.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

Hang in there Calamity! My therapist once described this as “trying every door until one opens”. He cautioned me that it’ll likely never end and I’ll forever have this target on my back, I’m the first of likely many other failed future relationships…I’ll bear the brunt of his inadequacies for a long time.

Just imagine he’s a frantic rat trying to find cheese in a maze. He will try, try, try until he finds the corner where that moldy little piece of cheese is. He can smell that it’s in there, he’s had a taste of it before and he loved it. He misses it. Don’t let him have one more taste, remove the cheese. Let him keep searching aimlessly. Fuck ’em!

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

Stay strong, CalamityJane!! Because chumps are kind, compassionate people, we are susceptible to “poor me” talk and other strategies to win us back. But these cheaters are Naegleria fowleri–the brain-eating parasite found in warm water. One day, you’re swimming, 10 days later the parasite has decimated your brain.

No swimming (i.e., no contact) is the only way to avoid the mindfuck.

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Completely AGREE!!!!

we have such big hearts, and truly care for other people. it is hard for us to understand that someone would be so low to use “poor me” talk to manipulate us into feeling sorry for them. we WANT to fix it, we WANT to make the world better, the problem is HE doesnt really want to be better, he just wants someone to wipe his ass and clean his messes, he just wants to do as little as possible with the maximum rewards. he has zero problem with you doing everything while he soaks up the glory….

but dont you feel sorry for him? NO!! you dont well then the hate, anger and cruelty will come out and be directed at you for not falling for it. You cant see that he is a victim? you cant see that he is TRYING? you cant see the he wants you to take care of him? well….then what a BITCH you are.

we are really better off without them. they are just leeches sucking out all your energy, happiness, time, and effort.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
8 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

If I said “trying” one more time, I would not be offended if you ejected me from CL, Tracy.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago

Micha,

Sounds like HE is the damaged one….damaged in the head. And that is a generous assessment of him considering what he texted you. Just plain mean and nasty. Don’t buy his lies about you! Listen to CL and fight the lies with truth..plenty of us chumps find wonderful, non-abusive partners after ditching our nasty cheaters. And we come in all shapes and sizes. Plus, that assumes you want to find another person…you are whole and wonderful just as you are! God does not make through away people.

Blessings,
DM

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago

I’m with KJ, very well said DM as always. I have to say that no longer believing the lies is the best feeling EVER. I have questioned myself for the past 8 years, asking myself over and over if the insults spewed at me by Xhole had ANY truth to them?? While I may have MY issues (I think we all do to some extent) and I can reflect on them….. understanding how truly disordered and BROKEN he is has helped me FINALLY let go of all of that crap!!

I LOVE it that he can’t get to me anymore 😀 MEH is absolutely fabulous!!!!

KJ
KJ
8 years ago

DM your comments always make me smile, such a kind person 🙂

MN Moved On
MN Moved On
8 years ago

Micha, change your phone number, and be DONE with his craptastic text bombs.

While you are at it, change everything: home phone, cell phone, email. I had to do it, because Big Chief Dumb Fuck would simply not take NO for an answer. First step towards Meh and peace of mind for me.

jmshepp
jmshepp
8 years ago
Reply to  MN Moved On

Excellent use of Craptastic! Am also a fan of Big Chief Dumb Fuck. . .

deedee
deedee
8 years ago

Oh my word , I still get these messages of how much he misses me and little gifts bought for me! This after I was dumped so callously by him, just packed and left while I was at work, no message no nothing! Now he starts again. But it does hurt and as soon as I start to feel a bit better he will send me a message or buy me a gift, it’s not easy but I know I am better off without him. He moved straight into his ex wife’s bed after cheating on me with her, for I don’t know how long! These idiots have no idea about life and how their actions impact on us, just as long as they are getting cake. I’m sure it won’t be too long before he finds someone else to give him what I clearly won’t.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  deedee

“But it does hurt and as soon as I start to feel a bit better he will send me a message or buy me a gift, it’s not easy but I know I am better off without him.” Your X totally understands the impact his actions have–he knows he hurts you. He knows if he sends a message or buys you a gift, he is mindfucking you to get your attention back on him and to stay central in your life. So the answer is–cut off the avenues for messages. Don’t open the gifts–have someone else dispose of them. As long as you leave the channels open, he will use them.

Chumpguy
Chumpguy
8 years ago

Hate to be repetitious, because you will hear it many times today, but speaking as a guy, this (thankfully) X of yours is a nasty piece of work. So glad you are away from him, which is a very, very good place to be.

Luziana
Luziana
8 years ago

There is always the hurtful echo of “you did X, and made me say/do Y”. It’s so easy to be sucked back into the mind of the person you so esteemed, even when they don’t esteem you.

But nobody makes anyone do anything. Since your divorce, you should have the freedom to settle into No Contact or Business Contact only. I was divorced last September (no kids together) and I finally had to put a stop to even Business Contact. He really thought he could just contact me any time to whine about his new rotten life like we were old buddies. NO.

I believe that the only way to stop absorbing your ex’s abuse and disordered thinking is to not allow him access to you. Look at his actions and all his words. What kind of person says the things he says to you. A horrible person. You must step back and be a friend to yourself. If anyone you loved were being subjected to this kind of harassment, wouldn’t you kick some ass of their behalf?

If you get some time and space away from this horrendous dolt, his insults will eventually morph from jawdroppingly effective stabs to laughable and desperate flailing of the mentally ill. You’ll examine every hurtful thing he said and reject 90% of it when logic returns to you.

Comfort and understanding to you,

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago
Reply to  Luziana

exhole’s oompa loompa hood rat home wrecker loves him and respects him so much

(READ: CONTROLS HIM) that he cant even think without her approval. i know it will not last long.

but for NOW i am lucky NOT to have to deal with this kind of shit. i dont get any texts, and stopped getting crazy from HER. i havent gotten any suicide attempts or threatening phone calls. he has completely forgotten about me and his boys. in the end, we will be better off.

dont let them in your head.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
8 years ago

Micha,

After reading that drivel, I wouldn’t even refer to your ex as a “cheater” anymore: I’d call him what he IS, which is, as others before me have written, an A-B-U-S-E-R!

He’s classic. Typical. Common. And BORING. He doesn’t love you. He loves to try and CONTROL you. And when his love bombing doesn’t work, he “cycles” to abusive lies, insults, put-downs and the like. He’s like a doctor cycling through antibiotics to see which one will “work” on you (thank you, Lundy Bancroft)

If you haven’t already done so, pick up a copy of Why Does He Do That? by Bancroft. It’s a real eye opener. You’ll learn how abusers think.

In the meantime, I’m rooting for no contact with a big dose of *yawn* thrown in.

These guys (and gals) really aren’t all that original.

WhatAChump2015
WhatAChump2015
8 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

I just started reading Why Does He Do That? last night. So far it has been an eye opener of the things I brushed off as normal or have taken as “my fault”.

Blown Away
Blown Away
8 years ago

Oh Michael…THAT is just AWFUL!! Keep running and DON’T look back!!

Portia
Portia
8 years ago

I sometimes wonder why these abusers talk at all — they show so much of their distorted thinking and twisted interpretations when they open their mouths. You can chalk up all the “pretty” and “sweet” words wanting to get back together with you as “I miss cake.” They like triangulating women and getting them to do the pick me dance. It’s cake, cake, cake for them. This desire for reconciliation also indicates all his plans with Schmoopie are not really working well for him. Isn’t it sad for Schmoopie that their “twu wuv” is not what they thought it would be?

As for his comments, if all you needed was “a big one to ride” isn’t it unfortunate for you that he was not man enough to “settle you down”? In addition, why would you want to hear about his cavorting with the new OW du jour? Wouldn’t it be the same old selfish and unimaginative stuff he offered you? You know, even though they blameshift and tell you that YOU cause all their problems in the bedroom, that is just a lie they tell themselves to make themselves feel better. Women do not cause men to be impotent. It is usually a health and/or age problem, and if there are psychological issues, it is after all HIS head(s) that have the problem, not yours.

Remember you are not a “man-hater” — you don’t hate all men, just him. The good news is that while you recover, you will start to feel less and less for him until you don’t care anything at all about him. You were not a woman scorned, you were a woman who had a low-life husband who was a cheater. You may scorn cheaters — there are many in the Chump Nation who do — don’t feel alone.

The age and health comments are beneath contempt. I have watched the Narcs I know age, believe me, it is not pretty. They may look in the mirror and fool themselves that they have “still got it” — but if he is in the same age range as you are, and if you are taking care of yourself, chances are you are in much better shape than he is. There are some physical reasons that women generally outlive men. He has much more to worry about than you do.

Move forward, live your life with your boundaries firmly in place. Follow YOUR dreams. Meh is just around the corner . . . you should get there soon, on a random Tuesday. Good Luck on your journey.

juliet
juliet
8 years ago
Reply to  Portia

Good post Portia. x

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  juliet

Yes, indeed.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
8 years ago
Reply to  Portia

“As for his comments, if all you needed was “a big one to ride” isn’t it unfortunate for you that he was not man enough to “settle you down”?”

A big one to ride? Huh. I would have been soooo tempted to say to him, “Why, YES! Yes, you’re RIGHT! I DO need a “big one to ride”! It would be a nice change from riding your SMALL one for so long…”

Yeah. I’m not ‘snark-challenged’ today or anything…

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

Gypsy57, I loved that line too! To bad he is so “thick” he couldn’t see what he was actually saying! Again, asshats!

tony
tony
8 years ago
Reply to  Portia

well written

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

Well said Portia! Keep preaching it because the truth is like the sunshine we need to keep the “bacteria” from coming back! Lord these asshats are so unoriginal! If I bothered to keep a calendar then I would be able to pinpoint his next “cycle”!

ItsAJourney
ItsAJourney
8 years ago

Micha don’t believe anything he says, and certainly don’t allow him back into your life!!! If he can make you feel shitty enough to take him back, just imagine how he’ll treat you if you do go back. He has ZERO respect for you, and will treat you with contempt if you ever go back to him. He’ll become a more powerful narcissistic leach, slowly draining you of your lifeblood… your passion, confidence and self-respect. You deserve so much more than this!!! Stay strong!

Tessie
Tessie
8 years ago

Glad you are away from that evil twit. This is where he made it crystal clear that the best option for you is to trust that he sucks and go no contact on his sorry ass. Hang in there ….it does get a lot better. The chump nation has your back.

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago
Reply to  Tessie

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

if you were wondering if you should go back to him…..he just gave you all the reasons not too.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
8 years ago

“If he were truly desirous of reconciliation and forgiveness he wouldn’t attack you.”

***Bottom line***

Put this in your pocket and read it when you need clarity. Make it your wall paper. It is the absolute truth.

thensome
thensome
8 years ago

Micha,

Stay away from this creep and keep him blocked. There is no end to the ways in which these cheaters can harm you. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his inability to be in healthy relationships.

Recently my STBX got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend. He is sporting a nasty injury. And of course he is the victim. I don’t really care except that my daughter witnessed it and THAT pisses me off. Of course STBX is dismissing it, rug sweeping, etc. etc. They do not change.

I have a great attorney. And you bet he knows about this latest incident. Keep records of any degrading comments. You will be surprised at how useful they can be going forward. A good lawyer can stop this shit cold but it you can help out by keeping your side of the street tidy. And I know you will.

As CL and others say here, no contact is the only way. I share a child with my ex cheater and it’s hellish at times. However, I know now that he is an abusive, crazy making man and I’m so fortunate that I got out of that marriage. I’m stronger and healthier than I have ever been. It takes time, but you can do this too.

Maree
Maree
8 years ago

I am going to put my hand up and be honest. Early in the madness of my separation from my ex husband of 37 years which he planned, I fired off some terrible emails to him which were full of hate and abuse. I am not proud of what I did or said but the hurt and humiliation was unbearable because he had planned my exit and sent our 28 year old son in to tell me I was leaving and what money he was prepared to give me. Like the fool I am, I just accepted everything and left. Everyone took his side and shut me out, so yes, I was very angry and hurt. I suppose that puts me squarely in the narcissist box back then. If so, I am guilty as charged but I no longer have contact because he has moved to Cambodia. I suppose he feels safe there away from me the crazy one. I must clarify, my ex is the only person who has ever made me crazy with anger so I can only assume that getting rid of me was necessary for him to have the life he now has.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
8 years ago
Reply to  Maree

My therapist says “The appropriate response to injustice is rage.” — The difference between your rage, Maree, and the cheater’s, is that you were served a heaping platter of injustice and he was not.

Kelly
Kelly
8 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

Maree. You have been dealt one of the cruelest blows by one of the worst narcissist sociopathic freaks. No you are not one of them. We know that. You are one of our own, an empathetic trusting and caring chump. Never doubt yourself again. ((Hugs)))

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Maree

Maree–HUGE difference between flailing emotionally and verbally after you’ve just been assaulted, vs. cheaters who are abusive from the get-go. Defense (chump) vs. Offense (cheater). If it helps, I never speak poorly to anyone, but after finding out some awful & cruel details of my X’s main affair, I told him I wished he would die. Terrible, yes, but I was trying to recover from an emotional bayonet wound that HE had inflicted.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Glad you posted this for Maree, and others who regret responding with anger or rage or deep hurt. That’s not the same thing as deliberate cruelty.

Jayne
Jayne
8 years ago
Reply to  Maree

‘Like the fool I am, I just accepted everything and left. Everyone took his side and shut me out, so yes, I was very angry and hurt. I suppose that puts me squarely in the narcissist box back then’.

NO MAREE! – neither this ^^^ – nor sending ‘terrible emails full of hate and abuse’ when you were being tortured by his discard, makes you a narcissist. Not even close honey, stop that thinking. You reacted completely appropriately, of course you were very angry and hurt, I’d be questioning your mental health had you not! Please give yourself a break, you don’t deserve to be so hard on yourself. x

not Juliet
not Juliet
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

You are right, Jayne. Maree did nothing wrong. I called the cheater every single cuss word I knew, multiple times, and some I made up. I don’t feel bad about it, it’s a normal reaction to the shit he DID , I.e. lie, cheat, steal family resources of time, money, etc. From me and our daughter. He totally deserved it and so did yours.

ChumpedUpChik
ChumpedUpChik
8 years ago
Reply to  not Juliet

It’s all the damned mindfuckery that will send you over the edge! There’s something disorienting about the way these people play you. He tried to tell me I was so angry and paranoid that I was becoming psychotic. I actually felt fairly crazy because he made SURE of that. Remember, he’s one of those sensitive souls that can’t handle swear words unless they’re tattooed on your body – maybe then is ok.

I thought what I was feeling must be like what a wounded, cornered animal feels? Desperately wounded and he kept cornering me just to keep me off balance. To do more damage, making sure he kept the proverbial boot on my neck. I finally fought back and I don’t feel badly that swearing a blue streak helped me do that. I guess he thought he could stop me from looking for the sense in his abracadabra craptastica show. Now you see it? Oh no you don’t!

When things started to unravel (you know, all that stuff that’s nothing), or even after that when I’d get too close to something, his behavior just made me more certain that what I already HAD couldn’t even be the half of it. I didn’t even have to know what “it” was, like someone else mentioned. If I got close by accident, his cranking up the abusiveness let me know to keep hunting round there……yeah, it’s that volcanic pushback they give when they’re trying to manage their image and secrets that will tip you off, so be aware! It took me a bit of time, but I started to see his “tells.”

He was doing nothing but making me insane regardless. I had to disconnect emotionally and decided I mostly don’t care what ELSE, because what I already know and the mindfuckery that already occurred is plenty.

deepbreaths
deepbreaths
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpedUpChik

I had no idea that there were words to bring clarity to what I went through (am going through), but you nailed it CUC! Just, wow. Yes, I was kept off balance, cornered, devolving into his chaotic mess of a world. There aren’t enough words to express the confusion pain shame shock of it all, so meh. F that guy, I’m walking away.

Drew
Drew
8 years ago
Reply to  not Juliet

I agree. Crazy begets crazy and these Narcs are anything but fair in a divorce. Hell, I think if I had had a life insurance policy I would have ended up in the woods! Lol

WiserToday
WiserToday
8 years ago

Ah, yes. “Man hater”. Add to that, “You so damned self-righteous not even Jesus Christ could make you happy.”

There are no shades of gray with these creatures, are there? Someone must either be the model of perfection or the epitome of evil. No one can simply be human. Their world doesn’t recognize nuance.

For the record, I love men. But words have concrete meanings, and somehow I don’t think “online masturbitionist” has been included in Webster’s definition of ‘man’.

Jayne
Jayne
8 years ago

OMG Micha – what a complete arse! The temptation to break no contact and tell him to fuck off and die must be really strong! It is for me – and I don’t even know him!! LOL :-D. You obviously know NC is the best way to go. But, hell, I’ll bet you’ll have gone through all the one-sided retorts in your head. Take some comfort in knowing your NC will be torturing the idiot – (hurrah)! Congratulations on getting away from that stunted human being.

not Juliet
not Juliet
8 years ago

This sounds familiar. They are all SO ALIKE…

StrongerEveryday
StrongerEveryday
8 years ago
Reply to  not Juliet

I agree, Juliet. My ex said some of the same things to me during our final big fight, the one when he finally realized I wasn’t going to give him chance number umpteen.

It’s eerie.

StrongerEveryday
StrongerEveryday
8 years ago

Er…I mean, “not Juliet” 🙂

thensome
thensome
8 years ago

Maree,

Acting “crazy” in the face of betrayal is understandable. You are human. It would be abnormal not to have a strong reaction to this. Abuse can make the sanest of people act in unpredictable ways. It’s the card these tools play all the time, “Oh look! See! She’s/He’s crazy!” Don’t fall for it.

I bet you are a lot saner now that your cheater is gone.

My cheater is now making his next “victim” insane. And so it goes…..

Cheaterssuck
Cheaterssuck
8 years ago

Micha I am so sorry this jerk was ever in your life. You are already so mighty for leaving him and divorcing him. You blocked his texts too so you got this honey!

CL was right in that the UBT wasn’t really needed to see the underlying message in his texts. He’s an abuser and not so subtle at that.

The good news is that he is out of your life now. Just process your grief and keep your distance. He seems like he would be scary in person. I don’t know if you have children together but go as little or no contact as humanly possible.

Big Jedi hugs -chump nation has your back!

ella982
ella982
8 years ago

CL, my husband said “I’m sorry i hurt you” but when i asked if he’s sorry for his actions he’ll spin it into something else. Is that remorse ?

kb
kb
8 years ago
Reply to  ella982

CL is on target.

“I’m sorry I hurt you” is acceptable only after someone’s accidentally stepped on your foot, smacked your head, or similar accident. If they’re truly remorseful, they’ll follow “I’m sorry I hurt you” with an acknowledgment that they acted out of their own selfishness. They will call a therapist on their own, and generally crawl over broken glass to try to rebuild what they shattered. And acknowledge that you do not owe them forgiveness.

Anything else is just gaslighting and mindfuckery.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  kb

And “I’m sorry I hurt you” is only true if they haven’t done it over and over.

moose
moose
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

My therapist says it’s like them punching you in the stomach and rubbing your head while they do it.

Chumped only 1 time
Chumped only 1 time
8 years ago

I agree that some people are too damaged to be forgiven, but I also agree that some people ARE too damaged to forgive.

If the cheating person has a personality disorder or any other psych issue, yes, yes, yes, move on.

However some people f up once and learn their lesson. Those are the ones that deserve forgiveness, but only if the betrayed is up for it. It’s not a given.

Love is about being able to forgive someone who fs up once. Love is not about being a doormat, but a loving person could forgive one transgression

With that said, why is this lady still feeling that his request is bringing back all the hurt? Obviously she is not over him? Why is that?

That’s another thing to consider, does she want him back? If so why? These are questions she needs to ask herself.

Does she want him back because she is too damaged to move on? Does she want him back because she realizes he was a good person who f’d up once.

As for worrying that you might spend another ten years or so with someone who might cheat…..well, why bother. Is it any better that you spend another ten years with someone who wakes up one day and simply wants a divorce because he says he’s changed.

Life is a risk. Make every day a good day, and even if in the end the guy or gal wants a divorce in ten years, so what. It was still ten good years of living.

Chump me once shame on you. Chump me twice shame on me. Thank you dumb ass affair partner for showing my wife how lucky she is to have someone like me.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago

“Fucked up once”, huh? That would be the time where fuckwit husband spoke with the whore the first time. Any other act, thought or feeling beyond that was deception and is an instant fucking dealbreaker.
Piss off with your holier-than-thou ‘She has feelings though negative so shes not over him’ shit. I wasn’t aware that feelings could be turned on and off like a tap, but I guess from idiots like you, that’s feelings have less depth than a kiddy pool, thats the status quo.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago

Phh. Chumped only 1 time–I would add “that I know about” to your moniker.

And “f-ed up only one time”? Depends on the act. For example, if I have a roommate who eats my last frozen pizza and apologizes, fine, I accept the mistake. But if that roommate enters my room with a hunting knife and tries to slit my throat in the middle of the night, no way in hell I forgive that person.

Cheaters bring a hunting knife to the marriage, and use it.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Good points. I was “chumped only one time” (that I know of for sure) but the ex didn’t just sleep with the OW one time. That went on for a couple of months. If they are lying and screwing someone else multiple times, is that really being chumped only once?

Plus which, I don’t think it matters where they fall on the cheater spectrum when it comes to ‘forgiving them and reconciling”, I think the only thing that matters is if they are truly sorry (which clearly that dude wasn’t) and if they do all the heavy lifting with no expectations of anything in return.

I don’t think it’s at all likely for a serial cheater to do any of the above but I don’t give the ‘one timers’ a lot of credit either. It’s about character and the majority of them were last in line when that quality was being handed out.

kb
kb
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Good point, Tempest.

“f-ed up only one time” would suggest that the spouse fucked someone not his/her spouse once, realized that this was a huge and terrible thing, and confessed it right away.

Anything else is not a one-time fuck-up. It is a litany of deceit. I think a lot of us initially want to excuse an affair as a single act. What we realize–and the real virtue of Chump Nation–is that an affair is really a series of violations.

We deserve better than that!

Jayne
Jayne
8 years ago

Dear Chumped only 1 time,

There’s a lot of your post here that disturbs me. There is a tone of ‘victim blaming’ that is redolent of the occasional troll attacks we get here from time to time. I don’t see the leap of perception that tells me Micha must want her ex back if she is still open to emotional pain inflicted by her ex. It just doesn’t follow on for me. What I believe is that these abusers learn how to press our buttons during their time with us and, as a conscious decision to abuse, use our vulnerabilities against us. We all have vulnerabilities Chumped only 1 time – even you. I do recall the playground chant of ‘sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me’ but the truth is most of us (obviously, by what you say here, not you) are hurt when people verbally abuse us.

As for your argument that spending ten years or so with someone who might cheat is no worse than spending ten years or so with someone who wakes up one day and simply wants a divorce because they say they’ve changed. I’m not sure you understand how the ten years of deceit, betrayal, backstabbing, gaslighting and mindfucking that comes with a cheater, is so, so, so much worse than being granted the respect of having ‘the difficult conversation’ that at least tells you they feel differently. People do fall in and out of love, that is sad but true, but I for one would have preferred ‘The Great I Am’ to have not pretended he adored me at the very same time he was fucking his AP, it was his cowardly avoidance of the difficult, respectful, adult conversation with me that has me unable to forgive. Does that make me a damaged person? I guess so, but you know what, our brains are plastic and affected by our life experiences. I fully expect to heal in time, but scarred I will be. I can’t unlearn the shit I’ve been through, and the nearest to forgiveness I’ll ever give him is Meh.

deepbreaths
deepbreaths
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

Dear Chumped Only 1 Time,
It’s Micha here and my instincts about your comments are telling me that you just might be trolling. In fact, reading your post made me feel like Hannibal Lecter just ghosted me. Especially the part where you can disconnect from someone without a sense of loss. Emotionless responses to ANYTHING are just too creepy.
Micha

Sunny
Sunny
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

Actually, Jayne, I see what Chumped Only 1 Time is saying, although it’s phrased kind of awkwardly. Since Micha didn’t block her abusive ex completely, CO1T is interpreting that as that she still, on some level, wants the contact. I don’t believe that’s true in her case, but I have seen it happen. I have a housemate who’s a complete drama llama. Has a “crazy” ex-gf (pretty sure he contributed quite a bit to her alleged “craziness”) who he keeps in touch with with phone calls and texts (it’s mutual; she contacts him just as frequently). They spent a year and a half in court over various allegations which were never really proven or disproven. Yes, there was a protection order – neither has observed it. I mentioned – quite recently – that if he *really* wanted the issue to go away, he could block her emails. Phone calls. Texts. Hook his cell phone up to Google Voice and block ALL contact with a couple clicks (that’s why I put up with the Evil Empire, LOL) (and no matter who your provider or number is, as long as you keep it hooked up, they stay blocked). He remains blithely uninterested. He *likes* the attention. It reinforces his centrality in the drama. I’m not going to interpret CO1T’s feedback as victim blaming so much as questioning intent. I think it caught Micha by surprise the extent the ex would go to in order to re-establish and reassert contact and control though. For anyone else who ever reads this, never, ever underestimate that extent. They know you fell for it once and think they can get you to fall for it again. They live to exploit that weakness and take advantage of it again if they can.

Jayne
Jayne
8 years ago
Reply to  Sunny

Sunny – I still don’t think that Micha’s hurt by her ex’s abuse automatically points to her still wanting him back. I don’t think you are saying that either. Respectfully, I don’t even believe her not installing Google Voice and going Ninja on cutting off all avenues for contact, is proof that she wants him back, and in all honesty, I think it takes too much of an assumptive leap to come to that conclusion. It could well be that she thought the actual divorce would have been message enough. She may not be as computer savvy as you – certainly it’s the first I’ve heard of Google Voice. She doesn’t say whether they have children so going full NC is not an option for her. I understand what you say about your friend and his ongoing drama with his ex, but that doesn’t mean Micha is cut from the same cloth, nor does it mean we can assume she is and, finally, both Chumponly1time and respectfully, even yourself are making assumptions that ARE victim blaming, IMHO.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

I think some people have trouble seeing they have the right to go No Contact. I’m not sure why this is, but it may be a chumpy trait or a something like codependence or just having trouble cutting the cord altogether. So many relationships we read about here were based on the cheater maintaining control about everything or nearly everything (cheater spends lots of money while chump and kids pinch pennies; cheater goes on vacations while the chump stays home, etc.) And chumps grow used to “answering to” the cheater. I think these patterns are hard to break. I know that the minute I spend time with my XH (the drinker, not a cheater), I am right back into trying to please him. I certainly don’t want to go back to that life, but I also miss the side of him that is smart and funny and cared enough to plant trees. I want him to be happy, although I know that isn’t possible for him. And contact brings all of that back. He isn’t a danger to me, so long as I know I will cycle through those feelings when I see or talk to him. That isn’t such a problem for me with XH but it would be a terrible problem with an abusive, character-disordered cheater, because I would not risk falling back into those old patterns of relationship.

WiserToday
WiserToday
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

Exactly , Jayne. It is the hurt that comes from theft of our agency through their lies and manipulation that so often outweighs their rejection and discard. At least it was for me. Which I guess supports the idea that they’re driven more by their quest for power than by the hunt for strange vagina.

I started to say ‘fresh vagina’, but it seems most AP’s broke their quality seal long before our cheaters found them.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago
Reply to  WiserToday

Touchet!

Drew
Drew
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

IMHO, I think we all move on but nothing makes me angrier than all the crap I went through just to get on the other side of divorce. And my ex is still bullying me in re to the QDRO. Which hello! Should not be done five years after the MSA has been signed. I do not have to forgive crap toxic people. I am however working on forgiving myself for not seeing WHO and WHAT he was(or is). A disordered fucking Narc that I willingly wasted twenty eight years on only to have my entire life’s work blow up in my face. By someone I trusted.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
8 years ago

Micha, so sorry that you had to hear such abusive comments from him. I’m glad you finally blocked him – please keep it that way so you don’t have to deal with this again.

My STBX also said that he knew I would never be able to forgive him. After reading this statement from CL:

The whole “you’re not capable of forgiveness” is pure cheaterspeak. Roughly translated it means “you’re not capable of rug-sweeping.”

I realized he is right. I won’t ever be able to forgive him in the way he wants me to forgive him which is rug-sweeping, ignoring what he’s done and will continue to do, letting him abuse me AND still be with me too. I will never live like that again.

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago
Reply to  ByeByeCheater

i actually did forgive my exhole like that (not my best or most proud moment). i completely forgave, ignored what he did, swept it all under the rug, never bought it up again, never threw it in his face and apparently forgot it so well that i was completely taken by surprise when he did it again. i mean i honestly could not believe that he had a girlfriend!!!

i am only saying this because even if you forgave him in the way he wanted you too….it still doesnt matter.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
8 years ago
Reply to  mrsvain

mrsvain, I wanted to reply to your earlier post where you said “i also did not think that our marriage issues were so bad. i mean i knew we had problems but for me they were little problems that every married couple went thru” but for some reason on my computer there’s no Reply button at the end of it. What you wrote in that entire post was exactly how I felt about my situation too. During that time, the thought never crossed my mind that he might be cheating on me. I seriously thought that he was a person with values. Now I know better, thanks to CL and CN.

and from a forgiveness perspective, I know I was willing to work toward forgiveness with him had he been able to set up and put true effort in to rebuilding our relationship. Unfortunately, it became evident that he did not have what was needed to do that and all he wanted was his version of forgiveness. He even said to me 8 months after DDay that he ‘just wanted to come home, for all of this to go away, and for us to be together again like things were before’. My response was ‘that’s not going to happen’. Now I’m going to add that as another check mark on my best decisions made list.

Chumped only 1 time
Chumped only 1 time
8 years ago

Forgiving made me feel better. It wasn’t about her.

I felt good about being able to forgive my wife. Her affair was about feeling old and trying to recapture her youth. Her method to achieve that was immature and selfish and thoughtless. Still it was out of character for her.

Some cheaters should never be given a second chance. That doesn’t mean you are not capable of forgiveness it means you rightly don’t want to forgive. Even if it’s only one F up, it’s still up to the betrayed to call the forgiveness shot. Not forgiving doesn’t make you a bad person, but forgiving doesn’t make you a bad person or a chump, either.

Personally, I don’t feel chumped. I feel the affair woke my wife up and now she appreciates me more than ever. LOL even more than I deserve maybe. I am a nice guy, but like everyone I have faults.

Anyway, I am glad my wife does not have a personality disorder and she is not normally abusive. I am also very glad I chose to give her a second chance. Really, too, I actually called her affair partner and thanked him for showing my wife what asses some people are. The guy was a serial cheater. My wife was his tenth affair. In the end that fact made her feel very UNSPECIAL.

Anyway carry on guys, this blog is funny, if nothing else.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago

Seems the ‘I found a unicorn’ guy is finding his relationship isn’t all sunshine and roses, huh? Why else is he here?
Either that, or hes the body double of Perel, which is just gross.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
8 years ago

Chumped only 1 time, hate to break it to ya, you are not a nice guy – good luck with your Unicorn.

mrsvain
mrsvain
8 years ago

Then WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THIS SITE!?!?!?!

i am suspicious of anyone who says the found the unicorn who comes on this site talking how wonderful their unicorn life is and giving the impression that the rest of us just werent fair enough to our cheaters.

if you are so happy then go find another site.

Let go
Let go
8 years ago

So, are you in the reconciliation business? Are you trying to make sure chumps continue to buy books? Are you one of those that writes those books? I am cynical. I figure we should always follow the money. There is no other reason for you to be on this site.

namedforvera
namedforvera
8 years ago
Reply to  Let go

Time for Chumped Only 1 Time –so far (alternately, “I Only Chumped Her One Time”) to go back for another jumbo sized bag of Cheetos. Don’t forget to wipe off the keyboard before you leave.

Kthxbai.

itsAJourney
itsAJourney
8 years ago

Chumped only 1 time, you are either a troll, or you are desperately seeking validation for your decision to reconcile with your wife. You’ve made the decision to check out Chump Lady where the motto is “leave a cheater, gain a life,” and obviously reading the posts. If you were truly at peace with your decision to forgive your cheating wife you wouldn’t have the need to keep searching for answers. I would suggest some serious introspection, or that you speak with a counselor to analyze the conflict between what you’re professing, and your actual behavior.

You say your wife has changed, and realizes her error, but you should know that cheaters are fundamentally different than chumps. Cheaters, in order to cheat, must repeatedly plan their activities, and continually lie about it. Try to recall all the times your wife would have had to lie to you in order to go fuck another man. Let’s say she only fucked him once (according to my cheater he only fucked each AP once, and I’ve learned from Chump Nation this is a fairly common assertion). There had to be some build up. She had to have been lying by omission about her attraction to him. Then there had to be some planning involved for the actual event to take place. She probably told him horrible things about you, in order to make having sex with him seem ok. After they had sex she would have to cover up and lie to you some more. Was she convincing? If she was, then that’s cause for more concern, because it proves she’s a very cunning liar. Anyway…. you get the point. Cheating, even once, isn’t a one-time offense; it was a series of offenses that led to, and supported the act of sex. You’ve decided to take her back and forgive her, but at least recognize the depth of her deception, and know that deceiving you was probably part of the thrill.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  itsAJourney

Oh, good point, ItsAJourney. Chumped Only 1 Time is probably thinking the sex act itself is the whole cheating ball of wax. You’ve done a great job of explaining why one sex act involves many, many lies and deceptions and abuses.

kar marie
kar marie
8 years ago

FUNNY?! being chumped is not funny! Chump lady and the mighty nation are great. Has been a god send to me. While there are funny comments and funny stories they are lifesavers and smile staters. When you were chumped was it funny or did it burn a hole clean through to your soul? Me thinks I smell a troll. Asshole.

Sunny
Sunny
8 years ago
Reply to  kar marie

We’re here for you. Sending you big long-distance Jedi hugs. 😀 <3 Stay strong!!!

kar marie
kar marie
8 years ago
Reply to  Sunny

Thanks sunny!

Jayne
Jayne
8 years ago

Oh – you are a troll. Why do you come here – have you not got better things to do with your life? FYI – I really don’t go in search of reconciliation sites trying to preach ‘Lose a cheater, gain a life’ – you guys are very welcome to deal with your shit in any way you wish – if that involves forgiveness (or rug-sweeping, as we would see it) and reconciliation (or subscribing to the ‘cycle of abuse’) – go for it! But if you are SO sure of your choices, why on earth do you get your freaky jollies coming on to this site? Surely you should be skipping off into the sunset with your newly ‘infidelity-gifted’ superior marriage, No? Honestly, I really do question your mental health – what is it you think you are doing here, what kicks are you getting – and, really, are you happy in your life that spending chunks of it as a troll is actually acceptable to you? Takes all sorts I suppose.

Kraft
Kraft
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

Jayne, you are right. “Chump 1 time” is a troll. I’m mean seriously:

quote:………Really, too, I actually called her affair partner and thanked him for showing my wife what asses some people are. The guy was a serial cheater. ………………

That statement could not be serious.

Don’t feed the trolls! 🙂

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

Ah yes, he is here to tell us we are bitter bunnies who can’t forgive.That he is special! That his cheater is better than your cheater! Like the very special cheater-abuser in today’s post, they want to tell us we don’t measure up. Well, “Chumped only 1 time,” that’s “Chumped only 1 time so far.” And you might want to think about the character of a woman who cheats because she needs to feel young–because last time I looked, we all get older every day.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

And some of us are RABID bitter bunnies; best not to poke one’s fingers into the cage.

Jayne
Jayne
8 years ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

‘Well, “Chumped only 1 time,” that’s “Chumped only 1 time so far.” And you might want to think about the character of a woman who cheats because she needs to feel young–because last time I looked, we all get older every day’.

Oh very well said LAJ! 😀

Drew
Drew
8 years ago
Reply to  Jayne

Yes, very well said! I hope his finances aren’t dissipating as well.

tony
tony
8 years ago

Well, Chumped 1 Time,

I am glad that you feel the need to come on here and make excuses for your wife’s behavior.

Tell me, did she make these excuses up, or did you do that for her?

My soul cringed inside when I read this – stand up for yourself and be a man!

Have some self-respect, have some pride, have some intelligence.

Realize that an affair is a whole series of decisions – any one of which your wife could have stopped and said: “Hmm, maybe breaking the vows I made before friends, family and God is not the right thing to do. Maybe I should stop having sex with other people and work on things with my husband,” and then turned around and come to you – her husband – and tried to work on things.

You actually called her affair partner and thanked him? I am really, really trying not to be too harsh here, but this is one of the most pathetic things I have ever read. Maybe other posters here wanted to thank their ex’s affair partners for helping getting the parasite out of our lives, but not as some kind of therapy.

Of course your wife had an affair on you – you have no respect for yourself, and therefore why should she?

Pathetic.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

Chumped only 1 time is a Troll–they’re just getting more subtle.

Back under the bridge, now.

Jen
Jen
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

The first time my x cheated, he only cheated one time as well. That was true until the second time.

We are talking about a character defect that allows somebody to committ an act they know is wrong, but hope to get away with. It’s not a personality disorder for all of them, for some it’s just immaturity and lack of character.

Every cheater has the opportunity to tell their partner they are attracted elsewhere before they do it. They have a chance to let their partner know what is going on before they act.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
8 years ago
Reply to  Jen

Generally speaking when you give a cheater a second chance, it’s the same exact thing as giving a hunter another bullet because they missed you the first time.

You forgive it once, the assumption is that you’ll forgive again. Once a cheater always a cheater might be a cliche, but cliches are cliches for a reason!

tony
tony
8 years ago
Reply to  Jen

“That was true until the second time.”

I would file this under when I asked my wife if she loved me, and about our wedding only six months prior.

Her response: “I meant it at the time.”

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

I also got that same response when I questioned my ex about our vows.

Boudica Reborn
Boudica Reborn
8 years ago

Micha, I’m so sorry you’re being tormented by your narc ex and his propensity to show you how much he lacks emotional maturity. It sounds like his kibble pipeline is empty, and he will do ANYTHING to replenish it.

That includes the text equivalent of a little boy throwing himself on the supermarket floor, kicking and screaming because mommy won’t buy him his favorite breakfast cereal (you know, the one with the FREE TOY).

For the likes of him, even negative attention is worth something. If you can hang in there, doing NC, until he starts hunting for kibble elsewhere, that’s wonderful. However, if you believe he is or may become dangerous, or if image management is paramount to him, I agree with CL, and would consider filing a Protection from Abuse Order. For really disordered people it’s a real Killjoy – because those things have a habit of showing up for anyone who’s considering dating him in the future, and who is savvy enough to run a security check on him. That might shut him up fast! First and foremost, please access your risk, and keep yourself safe.

As for his taking a cheap shot regarding your health problems, it sounds like that may be a sensitive issue with you, and he’s using it to yank your chain. Whatever they may be, I can empathize as I’m disabled and have mobility issues. You may already know this, but there are wonderful people with emotional depth out there (like you) who, once they see your wonderful heart and soul (Chumps are such compassionate people), your health will not be such a factor that they will exclude you from their lives. (((Hugs)))

deepbreaths
deepbreaths
8 years ago
Reply to  Boudica Reborn

Hey, it’s Micha here. Thank you for this post. I’m not out of the woods yet but I know I’m closer everyday. I still have business contact with him but will be out of that tangled mess in a few months. Thanks to all in this fabulous Chump Nation! I didn’t know I needed you until I reached out.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  deepbreaths

If you are doing business, you can tell him to have his lawyer conduct the business if he can’t behave himself. Boundaries.

Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
8 years ago

If she works at Notre Dame, hopefully she will tell him it’s “incapable” instead of”not capable”.

Oh wait. He isn’t probably showing his crappy side to her yet, so she doesn’t have the opportunity to proofread his poor syntax and grammar.

I’m also not sure how he could be your “man” again. A man wouldn’t use vulgar sexual innuendos to intimidate someone. An a-hole would.

deepbreaths
deepbreaths
8 years ago

Excellent! And handing out towels at the gym is priceless too! Xox, Micha

tony
tony
8 years ago

ha!

She probably hands out towels at the gym.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

or rings the bell.

Ali Rose
Ali Rose
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

” or rings the bell” Oh geez, coffee out the nose!

Survivor
Survivor
8 years ago

They are all the same, really. Once you take your toys and leave, they want you back. Why? Because you are a possession, an asset. In their warped minds, they own you and you have no right to deny them their ownership of you. Self determination means a loss of control, so they cycle through charm, rage and self-pity, ramping up their efforts until they get a response. Do yourself a favor and don’t give him one.

Sunny
Sunny
8 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

THIS ^^^^^

DoneNow
DoneNow
8 years ago

Maybe I’m too thin-skinned, but that stuff was just emotionally abusive. Seriously disgusting. He’s just as sick as someone who’s physically abusive, IMHO. I understand getting angry, but those aren’t expressions of anger. They are attempts to hurt you and demean you as much as he can in his twisted mind. I’m sorry you ever had to read those things!

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  DoneNow

Spot on, DoneNow–the missive is abuse, pure and simple.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
8 years ago
Reply to  DoneNow

Not thin-skinned. I, too, felt wounded by his attacks. And this from someone who supposedly loves her? Gosh, what would it sound like if he DIDN’T love her?

This is all just more evidence why this guy is bad news. The first thought I had was “Tantrum,” followed by “And how OLD is this guy? Six or seven by the sound of it!” So incredibly juvenile!

Nord
Nord
8 years ago

When my ex said ‘you’re not capable of forgiveness. You’ll never get over this so why would I bother trying’ I knew it was really his cue for me to start assuring him that I WOULD get over it, I COULD get over it. I assured him once and he still insisted I just didn’t have it in me so I said ‘you’re right’. That shocked him almost as much as the time he was trying to provoke me into a fight and I simply said, ‘Ex, I don’t love you anymore. You’re my past.’ Kept him shut down for days with that one. 🙂

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Nord–I’m with you. When I didn’t “forgive” him and stop being angry after 1 MC session, he started talking about how I would never get over his infidelity and he had started to like living on his own.

Gave him his wish–filed 9 a.m. the next business day. But it’s merely their strategy to “guilt” us into forgiving them–X wailed and cried about how he didn’t want the divorce after I filed.

Donna
Donna
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

X was also surprised I filed. His parting words at the court ordered divorce hearing were a DESPERATE, “I think about YOU ALL the time”. He never looked quite so pathetic! Yeah, bebe you keep on thinking about me every day you wake up next to a fucking UGLY crass classless gambling drunk druggy bar whore who beat up her previous boy toy.

The best revenge IS knowing I live better! It’s never too late to gain a life !!!

TBC Girl
TBC Girl
8 years ago
Reply to  Nord

OMG – mine said this too. “I know how you are…you’ll never forgive me for this. Do you really want to live like this?” Meanwhile, this was while he was ALSO telling me he didn’t want to leave, and loved me, and wanted to work on the marriage. Talk about a mindfuck. I am convinced he wanted to leave, he was just too much of a coward to do it. He kept prodding me for my decision…All I wanted to ask him was, what’s the big hurry, do you have a hot date or something? Of course, he probably did/does. He said he wanted to stay, but kept telling me I’ll never stop asking questions, won’t ever get over it, and won’t be able to forgive him. Uh – dude, all that is true, but if you Wanted To Stay – why wouldn’t you just STFU and show real remorse.

Then the DAY I told him I couldn’t stay, and wanted a divorce…from that day forward he never again told me he loved me, used his pet name for me, he just completely switched everything off, and I felt like I was living with something even less than a roommate – It was like living with a man I just met off the street.

After moving out, he went NC with me. It’s been the most bizarre experience.

tony
tony
8 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Nord

Mine said the same thing.

She only wanted to do therapy and counseling if she knew AHEAD of time that I could forgive her.

When I told her that we were not even there yet – this was in the first day I found out – and told her how disingenous she was by trying to get me to committ to a future she had destroyed, she really started fleeing the relationship.

WiserToday
WiserToday
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

Nothing beats that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you’re blamed for the last affair because you kept taking them back.

Shechump
Shechump
8 years ago
Reply to  WiserToday

Nord – ‘‘Ex, I don’t love you anymore. You’re my past.’ Kept him shut down for days with that one.’

Unfortunately, 8 mos after our divorce we still own a home together (trying to sell) and work out possessions. So, been in business contact. I don’t even want that much contact with him as he made me physically sick when he came over last time to get stuff and didn’t take it all..arrg. But, I’ll get through it.

But, I’m SO with Maree totally at this point – once again. I am sending him mean little digs any chance I can get about getting his shit out of here asap so I can sell the house. I hate myself (sometimes) afterward but he was just being so damn nice, I felt myself getting pulled back into him and seriously thought I loved him (again)!! When will I learn?
He actually wanted to be friends with me! When I figured that out, I shut him down entirely by telling him:

“I never want to see you again. You are and will always be a monster to me”.

I think that took him off guard as I KNOW he wanted to be friends so he didn’t think what he did was so bad. Pathetic.

Anyway, that DID make me feel good that he knows how I still feel about him. And, as long as we’re sorting out possessions, I am quite sure my little nasty grams (not too nasty though) will keep on coming to him. Maybe he’ll block me. But, I SO want this over!!!

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
8 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Shechump, for me it got much easier after my ex FINALLY had all his stuff out of my place and all financial ties were severed. Until then, I found it really hard to have any sort of distance. It got better after I had the space and time to have emotional distance from him. Hang in there! It just takes time…

Nord
Nord
8 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

I wouldn’t bother with the nastygrams. Those show him you’re still invested, I think. When I told my ex I didn’t love him it was in response to him saying I needed to ‘get over it’ and that I was ‘like a teenager mooning about’. He really liked the idea that I was pining away for him so I set him straight and that was that.

While he still tries to get to me I ignore everything and have done even before we finished the divorce or splitting up of our possessions. Just go silent. That will say an enormous amount.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  tony

Yeah, they hate work or anything involved with things they can’t do–like love, commitment, and change.

Jen
Jen
8 years ago

My first x would be verbally absusive with me either over the phone or on voicemail. It didn’t bother me because it was so immature. I just didn’t respond, didn’t fight back, etc. Then when he got no response he would leave apologies in my voicemail. What was really funny, was when I hadn’t even heard the first (abusive) voicemail, but it was already followed with an apology before I even got to it. (I am bad about checking messages, can anyone wonder why?)

Now he is remarried and refuses to communicate with me, he will only go through our son or his wife. This makes me happy. 🙂

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
8 years ago

“Hope you find a big one to ride, that’s all you really need to settle you down a little.”

I may or may not be reading too much into this one remark, but to me it’s a kind of red-flag that says….

“I secretly believe all of my problems with women are due to the fact that I am not hung like Ron Jeremy. If I had a ginormous penis, there is no end to the possibilities: you’d probably tell all your girlfriends about it, and whenever they could get me alone, they would say things ‘Can I just touch it?’ Yeah, life would be perfect if my penis was fourteen inches long and about 2 inches in diameter. Boy, can you imagine how many women, even young ones, would like up to get a crack at that thing?”.

luziana1
luziana1
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I would have been oblivious, like, “Oh, a big one to ride. Heavens no- Ferris Wheels just make me more hysterical.”

Shechump
Shechump
8 years ago
Reply to  luziana1

Yeah like — jeez, we all want to be ram rodded! ha.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

This cracked me up!

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
8 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Would “line up”, not “like up”, and say things LIKE (missing word). Please give us an edit feature so that I don’t embarrass myself unintentionally any more 😉

Donna
Donna
8 years ago

Maree, he deserved every word you wrote. And then some.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
8 years ago

First, these messages are horribly abusive. They represent the whole cheater whipsaw repertoire between “I love you in some way” and “You are worthless.” The whole bag of mixed messages that are like intermittent reinforcement–what narcissists and sociopaths and torturers do to keep victim hoping that there is still hope that there will be food when the bell rings or the cage door will open–or in the case of cheaters, since one message is kinda sorta about “love,” that this manipulative jackass still “loves” you.

My first therapist told me that intermittent reinforcement is one of the most powerful tools of child abusers–teaching kids to hope that there will be food, clothes, and some kind of love of comfort because every once is a while, they toss you just enough to keep you alive.

And–NO CONTACT! Shut off those lines of communications. Yes, I know if you have kids, you have to be able to communicate. But once custody dates and times are established, you can send a spreadsheet or once a month email for events, doctor visits, etc. And tell the abusive jackass that if messages of that sort continue, you will not reply, that you have set up a dedicated email and if he abuses it, he is left to snail mail. Keep a file of the abusive stuff and if it continues, call the lawyer. Block his texts, his FB page and all other lines of communication. Until you do, you are still tethered to that diseased mind and his manipulation.

TBC Girl
TBC Girl
8 years ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

Intermittent reinforcement is indeed the most “reinforcing”…see: slot machines. Keep pulling that lever and maybe once every 3 hours, you’ll get a dollar out of the damn thing. I’ve done some reading about “Trauma Bonding,” and what you say is very true…you become so attached to the abuser because you’re waiting for that cookie. It’s so awful, and destroys the soul.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago
Reply to  TBC Girl

Agree. People who haven’t been exposed to that kind of abuse don’t get how easily the psyche can be damaged. People think it’s only the weak minded who get mind-fucked. This small group knows that 99% of those people are wrong.

juliet
juliet
8 years ago

Micha,
Please don’t take all these spiteful nasty comments to heart.
Your ex sounds like some spoilt brat who can’t have what he wants, so he is lashing out at the person who is thwarting him.
If he was five years old he would maybe shout, scream, hold his breath, tell you he hated you, lie down in the supermarket kicking the floor and refuse to get up.
But he’s not, he’s an adult and has learned how to hurt people with words when he doesn’t get what he wants.
Don’t fall for it.
He’s trying to push your buttons, exploit your weaknesses and make you feel bad.
Don’t play his nasty game.
You’re better than this, you deserve better than this and you need to keep moving away from this.
Good luck and keep moving away from this user/abuser. x

onthehill
onthehill
8 years ago

Some of my favorite quotes:

“She wouldn’t know courage if it bit her”.

“You’re too stupid and arrogant…” (part of a comment about me attempting to fix our old lawnmower)

“Inept and incapable of taking criticism in any form”.

And my favorite pet name?

“Road-Apple Princess”. 🙂

Chumpguy
Chumpguy
8 years ago
Reply to  onthehill

“Road-Apple Princess”???

Huh? Is that supposed to be one of those apples you sometimes see that are crushed by passing cars’ tires? Or just lying on the shoulder of the road?

Yet another real charmer here. Ugh.

Pearshaped
Pearshaped
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpguy

Where I grew up, road-apples referred to horse turds.

onthehill
onthehill
8 years ago
Reply to  Pearshaped

“road-apples referred to horse turds”

BINGO!

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
8 years ago

I recommend you save a few of these gems. They are the reminders you need some days to confirm that your decision to leave was smart, healthy, and long-overdue. No one deserves this kind of verbal harassment. He doesn’t love you. He wants to control you or get something from you, and he is truly angry that you’ve refused him. He’s running through his list of tactics. First, he tried flattery, and then he moved on to verbal abuse and emotional threats. If he thought he could get away with it, he’d move next to physical abuse (and if you suspect him of trying this, take precautions).

In leaving the relationship, you have done exactly what you need to do to protect yourself. As time passes, you’ll feel more confident about your decision and more joy in living without the shadow of abuse hanging over you.

I wish you the best of fortune, the best of futures, and the best of health.

JC
JC
8 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Great advice, Eilonwy!

We’re chumps, so we’re capable of backsliding and forgetting the bad / remembering the good. Having a few reminders of the hurtful sh** that my ex said about me was a good reminder on days that I felt weaker.

Drew
Drew
8 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

^^^^^THIS^^^^^. N”In leaving this relationship, you have done exactly what you need to do to protect yourself. As time passes, you will feel more confident a out your decision and more joy in living without the shadow of abuse hanging over you.” Brilliant, Eilonway.

chumped too
chumped too
8 years ago

chumped 1 time: I think you have a healthy ego. I to was not threatened by my wife’s affair partner. We are also doing well. I called him up thanked him and laughed in his face. Of course, I told his wife, too. I am sure you did the same. I got him in a boatload of trouble. My wife treats me better, too. HIs wife left him. He was also a serial cheater. We became friends for a time, afterward. But I had to break that off because she was starting to become attracted to me, and I realized that she was having an emotional affair with me.

Anyway, way cool, way cooler chumped one time. You sound like a strong willed guy with a healthy ego.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  chumped too

WARNING, CN–another troll. Starve him.

“No attention for you naughty trolls!”

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Not another troll…. the same one, just using a different name.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

He sounds like a guy who reads those Penthouse forum letters about wife sharing.

KenderJ
KenderJ
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

So he’s talking to himself? Can we spell “narcissist”?

deepbreaths
deepbreaths
8 years ago
Reply to  KenderJ

Yep, my first instinct told me so. Rock on CL! Doin’ something right here!

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
8 years ago
Reply to  KenderJ

Hahahaha, bingo

kar marie
kar marie
8 years ago

Uh oh another troll!

Martha
Martha
8 years ago

Chump Lady,
This response is a CL masterpiece!

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago

I haven’t even read CL’s reply yet, or replies from other chumps. I just read what your ex wrote to you and had to say that is TEXTBOOK response from a disordered person/narcissist. First he tries to sweet talk you back into supplying him with kibble. Then, when you don’t play his game, the REAL face comes out — pure rage and hatred. THAT is the real him. That’s how he really feels. The sweet talk was just glitter on the turd.

When you see that scenario: first sweetness and love, then pure rage when the person doesn’t get their way, you know you are dealing with a disordered person and you had better run.

Sunny
Sunny
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

May I enter an official request here for one of Tracy’s awesome illustrations? I want a glitter turd! It would make an especially awesome mug for work if it could be made to actually sparkle. Or is that narkle?

Also, GIO you totally nailed it. X#2 was this in a nutshell. They’re really good actors; the “sweetness and love” part seems so real and convincing…

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago
Reply to  Sunny

Sunny, I’ve described this here before, but I actually MADE a glittery turd at one point to remind me of my ex. I bought brown Fimo clay and a bottle of gold glitter glue. Molded the clay into a turd shape, baked it in the oven to harden it, then covered it with the glitter glue. It looked exactly like what my ex is — a piece of shit that wears a pretty, sparkly disguise.

I kept that turd in my bedroom for more than a year, until one day I simply didn’t need it anymore and threw it away. That was when I knew I was pretty much at meh. I highly recommend it to other chumps…. make a glittery turd of your own to remind you of what you have “lost.” The bottle of glue and the piece of Fimo clay cost me around $5 total at the local Joanne’s craft store.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

WHAT??! You MADE a glittery turd??

I’m so jealous. That’s awesome.

From time to time do you float it in a punch bowl, to practice for when/if he shows up in your world unexpectedly?

Shechump
Shechump
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

Glad – hmmm…I wonder if I could do it for free by baking one of my Great Dane turds to preserve it, and then add the glitter.
(yanno, to make up for his shitty abandonment of them all) But, I suppose it would always stink, and I’ve had enough stink to last me a lifetime. But, sure love your idea.

Working It Out
Working It Out
8 years ago

Forgiving doesn’t mean you are obligated to give him a second chance. Sometimes the best course of action is to move on.

Sunny
Sunny
8 years ago

Do we have a checklist (could put it on the site) of all the avenues of communication you should look at blocking when you go No Contact? Would anyone have an interest in this or find it of value? I’ve been stalked before and would have found something like this quite helpful. Instead it took me a lot of trial and error to go as NC as I needed. Unfortunately I have a lot of line items to contribute, too. 🙁

Jen
Jen
8 years ago

The truth is people like this are the reason my son is afraid to visit his father. You can never know what to expect. That is my real problem, not anything that was done to me, but the fact he will continue to try to abuse me through our son. He can’t get at me physically or emotionally in the first person anymore so he does it by proxy.

I still don’t get why he picked me. I didn’t do anything to him, I was just a chump. Why hang on 20 years later, doesn’t this shit ever get boring to you mother fucker?

Drew
Drew
8 years ago
Reply to  Jen

Jen, Amen! Yes, like fucking GO AWAY already. Decent folk always fight fair-he can have his fuckbuddy, LOL! I was happy to get away from a man who thought nothing of fucking me unprotected and financially fucking over his family on the way out. MAN (or WOMAN) UP and divide those assets and take CARE of the KIDS. Don’t fucking go scorched earth and pretend you are a good person (it just pisses me off!). With disordered OF COURSE, you KNOW this fairy tale is NEVER going to happen because you can not control a POS.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago

Micha.. run.. RUN into the light!!!

Gem
Gem
8 years ago

Wisertoday:

I respectfully disagree with this article and am responding to you because you mentioned theft.

I am almost afraid to respond for fear of being labeled a troll by the reader for expressing an opinion here differing from all the other betrayed spouses, but here goes: Wisertoday, if your son stole from you to buy drugs, but got reformed would you not still love him? I don’t know any parents who would say “no”. Not if he worked hard to change himself and to do good and to be a better person. You loved him for years, why would that change? It doesn’t. Not if you really love someone who is willing to change.

So the way I look at it my husband was very remorseful after is affair. He was beside himself that he got caught and hurt me and ruined our marriage to some degree. Now we have a new marriage, and things are good and I like some others here am very happy I stuck it out and gave my husband a second chance.

Now some here are def married to narcs and sociopaths and to those, I say sweetie, you did good, you moved on. Even if a son or a daughter steals something from you but refuses to change, then you need to kick them out. But if they change and it lasts for years why not forgive your husband or wife for stealing your trust or money for the affair or whatever, just as you would forgive a reformed son or daughter or brother or Uncle or mother.

If some don’t want to forgive that’s fine, but why ridicule others who do. I am happy, and most here who have booted their spouse seem profoundly unhappy. So unhappy that they can’t even stand to have an intellectual discussion in which one disagrees without slinging the word “troll” around.

I am wishing the best to all you hurt spouses, I have been their. But you know what things are good in my marriage now. Really good. Things will likely be good for you again too no matter what you choose. This too shall pass. All the stuff that happens to us in life is temporary. Something changes and we have good stuff again. Huggers to all you hurt spouses.

Donna
Donna
8 years ago
Reply to  Gem

After forgiveness and Reconciling efforts failed for the seventeenth time over 36 years I decided I had enough. The reality was that he was limited in every way. He wasn’t intelligent, drank, smoked pot daily, was selfish, cheated, lied, and was addicted to porn. I went on vacations by myself for year. Living with his negativity impacted my well being. This man I married enjoyed my pain. Now the emptiness that defined my life is gone. I chose to fight for myself instead of for him. I am worth it. Healing is possible in a supportive environment. This nation of chumps is a lifeline. We gain strength knowing we are not alone. Forgiving an abuser never worked for me, rather it kept me stuck. Working through the pain allowed me to change for the better. I have hope, my family, friends, and snark! What they say no longer matters when we know the truth.