When Your Cheater Is a Sicko

sacredbedSo the other day, we had a discussion going in the comments about cheaters who do it in the marital bed, the family motorhome, the truck, etc. My opinion is these freaks are a certain subset of cheaters — the real sickos. It’s not enough to cheat, they get an extra kick from secretly debasing their chumps.

I Know a Secret You Don’t Know. It makes them feel powerful to see you unknowingly humiliated this way. Sleeping in their cum-covered sheets. Using the same towels as the affair partner. Sitting down to a nice dinner with their fuckbuddy. Accepting the affair partner’s gifts and presence at your significant life events. They get to revel in your chumpdom and feel superior, united in their dirty little secret. Co-conspirators. Partners in crime.

How delicious. How exciting.

I imagine there are the cheaters who keep their lives more nicely compartmentalized. Home life and double life do not intersect. You visit the escort, you rate the escort. You travel for work, you fuck at the conference. They enjoy a safer kind of cake. (Well, safe in terms of exposure. Not safe in terms of risk and STDs.)

So why the sicko cheater? Why the great big FUCK YOU to the chump?

I have some theories.

1) They’re lazy. People who want to fuck around unfortunately often don’t have to look too far to find someone willing. A co-worker, a neighbor, a family friend. All it takes is someone similarly characterless who’s up for no-strings attached sex.

So, this person was in your circle before, and in your circle they remain. How can they look you in the eye? Invite your kid over for a play date? Bring you homemade banana muffins? It’s part of the “fuck you.” They’re doing a little competition with you — the pick me dance that affair partners do. Even when they tell themselves how uninvested they are, they want those constant reminders how much better they are than you, how moister their muffins are, how much more accomplished their children, how deserving. How lacking you are.

Of course, you’re blindfolded, with both hands tied behind your back, but they’re happy to stand in the ring and sucker punch you and declare themselves the “winner.”

Your spouse, on the other hand, is not just a sicko, they’re probably also just lazy. Why pay by the hour for a hotel when your bed is available? Why make special transportation arrangements when they can drive your truck?

You assign meaning and significance to things because you are a chump. You care. You see the connectedness of things. You ascribe meaning.

Cheaters don’t care and they aren’t connected. It’s about kibbles. Will using our marital bed get me kibbles right now? Okay! Nothing is sacred.

Nothing that is except kibbles.

2) They get off on the deceit. Who gets off on duping delight? Sociopaths. Sicko cheaters feel a contemptuousness for the chump and revel in their superiority at games. Uh, isn’t it a game unless we both know we’re playing a game? Nope, not if you’re a sociopath. We can’t have a level playing field here! The game is duping you! Making you pay for all the slights and grudges to their ego.

Or on the other hand, it’s nothing personal. They’re bored. They’ll chump you for shits and giggles.

How else do you explain one of the OW being invited to your wedding? (Raising my hand here.) Yep, I paid the bar tab for one of my cheater’s OW. Isn’t that special?

I’m sure having one of your OW in attendance at your wedding is a keen reminder that you are Not The Boss of Him. See, he’s “agreeing” to rules he’s already broken! Winning!

And it’s high stakes poker. It’s not enough risk-taking to just cheat, you have to amp up the drama — you have to flaunt it right under your chump’s nose. And they deserve it really for being so stupid. For trusting you.

Sex isn’t the high, deceit is the high. Power and humiliating others is the high. Control is the high.

3) They are delusional. Why do they take such risks? Because they’re loons. They never think their affair partner will rat them out. Everyone is just an extension of them, so won’t everyone just do as they wish? Of course they will. It is good to be puppet master.

Like all the Cluster B freaks, they’re special exceptions to the rules and constraints of chump society. In their imaginations, they never draw a deuce in their high stakes poker game. They always win and never get caught. When in truth, they fuck up because… they just don’t think that far ahead.

When I look back at my cheater’s risk taking, I just marvel. It was so stupid, so transparent, so clearly all going to collapse into a pile of ashes. And yet he did it anyway. Not just to me, but to two wives previously as well. He learned nothing from collapses one and two. He just took greater and more outlandish risks. He really couldn’t see past the next kibble quest.

I’ve alluded to this study before, but just found it again online from a New Yorker article on the science of sociopathy — these folks only see “card to card.” They can’t look over the event horizon to see consequences in order to fear them.

Joseph Newman, who chairs the psychology department at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, is the leading advocate of this theory. His model is based on traditional research methods, such as lab work using rats with brain lesions, and studies of humans using a well-known card-playing task, in which players gradually start to lose money; the players in the control group stopped as their earnings diminished, but the psychopaths could focus only on the outcome of the next card choice. Another hypothesis is that psychopaths lack fear of personal injury and, more important, moral fear—fear of punishment.

I’m not saying all cheaters are sociopaths — but the sadistic fucks who take delight in the double life, enjoy flagrantly humiliating you, and never think the day will come when they’re found out? Yeah, I think they’re sickos.

Whatever it is, it’s some kind of super fucked up. The kind of fucked up you need to get the hell away from.

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Jenny S
Jenny S
9 years ago

Wow! This is sooo my cheater to a T! He brought his whore to our house, used to buy her and her co-workers bagels (he’s a cop and they are dispatchers), and AFTER they were caught but I was out of town with our daughter on vacation, brought her back to our house where they proceeded to leave ass prints and a smear (Ewww!) on the living room furniture!
I mean, what is wrong with these people!?

Carol
Carol
6 years ago
Reply to  Jenny S

Mine two both his affairs right inside our marital bed and my 9 year old son found out and was man enough to tell me how do I get this creep back?

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Jenny S

Smears on the furniture?!

Eeeeeeuuuuuuwwww!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Jenny S

The best description I could come up with for people like this, including my X and his new hole is, hyena. They remind of of hyena’s that scrounge around looking for scraps and just act all-around disgusting. We know the cheaters are gross, but just imagine the mindset of their OP’s. What kind of person would allow herself to be brought to another woman’s home like this and act like this? Fucking hyenas.

lucky35
lucky35
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I am also in total dismay about what kind of super sick person accepts an invitation from a married/committed person to screw them in the bed they share with their spouse/partner.

My cheater didn’t screw his “twat waffle” (love that term!!) in our bed, but I can ascertain that she is incredibly low self-esteem, very little education, and extremely poor writing skills. I can only imagine that affair partners who screw around in the marital bed have no self respect.

p.s. I would pay for bed sheets designed with waffle cones filled with ice cream and pubic hair sprinkled on top, with the words “twat waffle” all over. I’d send them to my cheater ex and his new “love”

Lisah
Lisah
9 years ago
Reply to  lucky35

Google “blue waffle ” for a whole knew visual.

Joy-filled Chump
Joy-filled Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  Lisah

I’m thinking t-shirts!

“My x prefers blue waffles.”

“9 out of 10 cheaters prefer blue waffles.”

“Blue waffles? You can’t eat just one!”

Lisah
Lisah
9 years ago
Reply to  Lisah

New

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  lucky35

Oh, maybe your cheater’s AP and mine are the same person. I have no idea how he could have carried on a text affair with someone who puts Z on the end of plurals (pluralz) and adds extra letters into most of herrrrr woooorrrdddz. It would drive me bat shit crazy to communicate with a supposed adult who writes like a tween girl would write about Twilight vampires.

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Oh wow! This is the womangirl that x is sleeping with now! I texted her to see if my phone records between them showing massive amounts of text/calls were really what I thought they meant. She’s been a friend of x and mine for over 15 years. Her texts back to me were in the style you describe!

“Hhhiiiii!!! Yyesss we’re friends!! You looovee him but that love neeeeds to change!!! Men are different! They Nneeeed sex more than us!!!!! Xoooxooooo!!! Missss you gurllll! When are you coming back to (city where I live with x)????”

And each sentence was delivered as a new text, so she sent several texts in a row for one paragraph of thoughts. Ugh. I stared at her text-bomb for a few minutes, then laughed out loud. I’m staying in my new city, btw. And have no feelings for my x anymore. She can have my cheating sloppy seconds!

mrsvain
mrsvain
9 years ago

i got a text from chewbacca saying “IAINT NO HOOD RAT” in response to my texting him that i hoped he was happy with his hood rat. hahaha.. i really did laugh out loud thinking only a hood rat would say i aint no hood rat. she just proved she was in one single text.

they really are that stupid

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago

She is ridiculous. Cringe inducing if I thought she had any consciousness. It’s so stupid it’s hard to feel embarrassed. More like numbed out. These psychos think they are so full of passion when they are simply brick heads. Tone deaf with no feeling. In her moronic way, she sounds like she is working hard to keep you at bay, keeping herself in the secure position. She’s really working hard at keeping you in the “poor thing” position. Oh she will not know what hit her when the time comes.

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

I particularly enjoy the fact that there’s no surprise or apology or anything. Just hugs, kisses and asking when I’ll be back to hang out b’c she misses meeeeee!!!!!!!!!
Too much.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago

Can you imagine texting with a stupid cow like that? “Do you looooovvvve meeee?” .

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Haha. Guess it could *sort of* explain the massive number of texts since she hits send after each sentence. It was just so ridiculous to read what she wrote, the spelling, the exclamation point frenzy, etc., – that all I could do was think “Man. If this is what x is after in a woman these days, then no we aren’t a match any longer.” Helped me lose all desire for him again, so that’s good, at least. smh

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I use “z” went I talk about having the sadz. It pulls the sarcasm into it. lol

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

That’s what I think of as LOLCat talk. And we get the sarcasm and the humor. It’s a way of taking the sting out of the sad. Like me saying “yinz” as second person plural. This is someone who talks about her dreamz. And girlz. And on and on. Who writes Happpppyyyyyy Birrrrthdaaaayyyyy, FB and Pinterest, as part of her “I never grew up” and “look at me, I’m cool like the kidz” image. You are cool because you don’t have to try to be cool.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I iz cool! 😀

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Yeah, but there’s just that extra special spice that I can’t quite put my finger on about a “z” from this “gurllll” x is doing now. I like the way you write, RK!

Debbie L
Debbie L
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I like your description and now have a new name for my husband’s AP!! When I found out he had brought her into our back yard to hook up in the family trailer, my first thought wasn’t “How could he do that?”, it was “What the hell kind of fucked up woman does that? Sneaks past the house where the wife and kids are to go screw some asshole in his backyard?”! And now I know…a fucking hyena!!!!

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Debbie L

Yep, I’m stealing ‘hyena’ for STBX and the skank as well – I can just imagine them making that creepy laughing sound as they search for more carrion because they can’t hunt for themselves:)

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Love it!!

Sammie D
Sammie D
9 years ago

Crap nearly choked on my chocolate, laughed so hard.

awesome thanks for sharing.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Very funny.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Anybody know how to post pictures so they embed in my response instead of just the link?

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Don’t know how, but that was worth following the link!

And, btw, that is one of my favorite reminders … Beauty for Ashes!

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Thank you, Rumblekitty. As heartbreaking as it was to catch the two cheaters in my home, in my bed…it was just mind blowing as well. I could not believe stbxh was capable of such blatantly disrespectful and utterly disgusting behavior. And as for TwatWaffle…I can’t begin to fathom poaching another woman’s husband let alone fucking him in the marital home/bed…must have been to her liking though because she moved in when I moved out. A hyena indeed : (

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago

I feel for you lovehonorcherish, that’s how I discovered he was cheating.

I remember seeing her on my side of the bed, and just not being able to believe I was seeing it. In our bed!!! There are visuals, and then there are VISUALS. I thought I never would get that sight (or the feelings that came with it) out of my head.

There is something really sleazy about that.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

There is not enough “mind bleach” to make that visual go away. No one should ever see another woman on her side of her bed.

Only way is up
Only way is up
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Well not the same but when ex moved out to be with OW he took the marital bed. OW sleeps in it ( on my side….yuck yuck yuck) and my son heard her say “this bed is so comfy”. I know not the same as seeing them together but I loved my bed. Now it’s tainted. In fact I miss the bed more than I miss him!

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago

‘TwatWaffle’ – that’s brilliant. My new favourite word. Lovely assonance!

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  Tonya

Can’t take the credit for TwatWaffle ladies! Got it from a poster over at SI…but I love it and I use it when referring to the AP. It is not language I would normally use but seems completely appropriate in this case : )

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago

For another woman to do this . . . to swoop in, fuck in your bed, and move into your home, yes she’s a fucking hyena. Any person capable of this kind of behavior has absolutely no self-respect, no class. And it also speaks to the kind of animal your X is, if he is attracted to this person. Water seeks it’s own level . . .

One day, she’ll walk into that bedroom and find the very same scenario.

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

What about the OW who cheats with a Married Man? Why should she be surprised to find him in bed with someone else? Why would he be surprised to find HER in bed with someone else? They are both cheaters … he cheats on his spouse and she is cheating with him. This is why they seek each other out because they are just alike…lazy, thrill seekers with no conscience or giving a thought to anything or anyone else except their own bodily pleasures.

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Yes, part of what bothers me most is that stbxh KNOWS just what kind of person the AP is but he chooses to ignore that information. I am quite positive that if I had conducted myself in the exact same manner as the AP I would have been kicked to the curb without a backwards glance. Stbxh holds me to a higher standard but fails to recognize that he is nothing more than a selfish, cowardly cheat…just like the AP.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago

Yes, but STBX is the same type of fucked up. He knows he’s just as gross as she is, but he probably figures if he keeps stating otherwise, it’ll stick.

It won’t. He’s a pig just like she is.

samiam
samiam
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

If they will do it with you they will to it to you….

I have no idea why some AP think it will be different for them. Idiots.

And really, it is just pathetic. My xbf was a sociopath BPD NPD creep. The first question he asked when I confronted him was “how did you find out.”

ARGH!

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  samiam

Samiam,
LOL, mine said, “I didn’t see this coming.” He was always amazed and envious of people who were organized, it was so weird to me. He also couldn’t plan ahead, he had a hard time with that.

Looking back I can’t believe I was with such an out and out creepy weirdo. Makes me wonder if I was just amazed and totally mesmerized by his weirdness or I just had an almost year long absence of brain power all together.

I think he compartmentalized so much he was kind of disjointed in his thinking and behavior. I mean to be compartmentalized, you don’t connect the dots with your own compartments so how can you connect with people. You are never friggin whole!

The only thing I can say now is that in addition to the shock, unbearable pain and trauma of Dday , I was so creeped out by everything having to do with him and couldn’t believe I shared my bed, body and mind with that. Now I feel like someone invaded my body during that relationship and the real me left altogether.

It’s frightening to think now that I see it all so clearly that I ever was caught up with such a freak in the first place.

Then again, as they say “20/20 is hindsight”.

I can say I will never forget the many lessons learned from this experience or the experience itself but it sure is good to have it behind me.

Red
Red
9 years ago

A YEAR before Dday, before I suspected anything, XH had OW cat sit for us while we were on vacation. She was supposed to come in, scoop the cat box, and refill the food and water. We’d had dozens of grad students do the same over the years.

We got back from the trip late at night, and when we walked in, the house smelled like cat urine – for the first time EVER since we’d owned a cat. Why? Because the litter box was in the basement, and OW had come in, scooped the box, then closed the basement door so the cat couldn’t go down there and use it. The poor kitty tinkled on the floor near the basement door, and was clearly upset by it.

I couldn’t believe the idiocy. I told XH the girl was a moron and wondered how she’d gotten into grad school. He took offense and stood up for her. I told him never to ask for her help again.

But he did. I took the girls to a birthday party one Saturday morning about 3 months before Dday, and came home to find OW babysitting our son, then age 5. XH was nowhere to be found. I was furious that he’d not only left, but left S5 with a sitter, and the moron cat sitter, no less. She seemed really uncomfortable – no doubt sensing my annoyance – and left as soon as I got home. Good riddance. She’d apparently made S5 grilled cheese for lunch and had burned both it and the pan. It’s a wonder she didn’t burn down the house. I told XH again that I thought she was an idiot and told him NOT to call her again for anything. He got ticked and stood up for her yet again.

Fast forward to a month post D-day. I’m playing detective, going through his receipts, and discover he bought OW Victoria Secret underwear as a thank you for watching the cat, and a cute outfit as a thanks for watching S5.

Looking back, I’m sure he enjoyed pulling the wool over my eyes. I work from home so I doubt they were ever together in our bed, but he did take her to dinner and on trips several times while I was home, watching the kids. His arrogance during the affair and while he was cake eating was astounding. Total Sicko.

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Red

Oh wow. Speechless.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Red

Well, I can’t resist saying it: If Ms. $5 can be trusted to act responsibly with YOUR, um, kitty cat, she can’t really be expected to act responsibly with, um, her own.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Lol, Nomar!

Roberta
Roberta
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Love it! That is funny!

Sick of HER Chump
Sick of HER Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Lol. Well said Nomar!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Red

They both deserve each other. That is some vile behavior right there.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Yep. Good riddance.

Scoops
Scoops
9 years ago
Reply to  Red

My mouth is open in awe. I don’t even know you, and I’m pissed off. What a fuck tard.

lale
lale
9 years ago

I think there’s another category of these people – the cheaters that cheat (or try to) with your friends. My ex hit on one of my best friends one night. Thank goodness she was a true friend and told me about it and told him he was disgusting and to fuck off, but that he even had that kind of nerve shows he was pushing boundaries however he could find them.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

My ex cheated with several of my ‘friends’ and also screwed one of them in our home while I was asleep. Nice to find that out, even if it was long after dday. Still pissed me off and put me off my food for a week. What pigs.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

My H tried to tell me that 3 of MY really good friends had come onto him over the years. Is he joking? – they are good women I’ve known all my life and consider them special. Was he trying to further hurt me because, I know for a fact, none of these special women would have come on to him because of the friendship they have with ME. (but of course, I was fooled by one hyena) I feel like telling these 3 friends what he said and let them phone him to tell him off. hmmm….maybe I’ll do just that. What a way to twist the knife in even further. Fucktard!

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Yes! That is what he said when I asked him about it, that if I “had been there, I would have seen how she was looking at him and dancing”. Delusional.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

One friend told me quite awhile after dday that ex had come on to her at a party at our house years before. People were drunk and although she told him to piss off she chalked it up to a drunken move and didn’t tell me at the time. When she did tell me she felt horrible and was so apologetic because she realised that had she told me then I would have not wasted another few years with ex (or maybe I would have? At least I would have had some clue, though).

I have to say that hearing so much stuff in the months (and even years) after dday was horrifying. People knew something was not right but no one said a word to me. I look back and wonder if I would have said anything had I been in that position and realise I wouldn’t have, because I had a friend’s husband come on to me at a party and my response was to back away from them as a couple, not to tell the wife.

Now? I’d tell in a heartbeat.

Einstein
Einstein
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

The idiot probably believed they had come on to him (they are so desirable, you know). They may have ask how his day was once, which in their penis shaped world means “do you want to fuck”.

They have their own bizarre slant on stuff.

Lavinia
Lavinia
9 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Hahahahaha! “Penis shaped world!” That’s beautiful…

Scoops
Scoops
9 years ago

I wonder if it really matters to the cheater, martial bed or hotel? Both are betrayals. Degree of severity? It’s like getting shot or stabbed. Would any of you feel better about your McCheater if they used hotels instead of the car/truck/couch etc?

I think it mostly is a sense of entitlement, selfishness, and instant gratification. I sometimes think I live in a bubble because it’s so foreign to me how people so this.

I teach elementary school and the kids today, many… Not all, have a serious sense of entitlement and get instant gratification. I think many of them may maintain that attitude as they get older. I think that mindset is conducive to cheating, You know, because. “Hey I wanted this and why shouldn’t I have it? I deserve it. I deserve to be happy. It’s not about anybody else, it’s about me. ”

When you have a sense of entitlement you lack empathy. I am thankful I was taught important lessons growing up about empathy and thankfulness. My dad told me a saying when I was young, “I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet. “. It really hit home about perspective and I think of that always.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Scoops

I think when they screw in your bed, it puts paid to any notion that they were able to compartmentalise their feelings or somehow see the affair as separate or secondary to their real life. Screwing in the marital bed puts the ap places him/her right at the centre of the marriage, the family and the home. This is the bed where you have shared and discussed your fears and dreams, cuddled each other to sleep and conceived your children in. There can be no argument that they didn’t mean to hurt you or they weren’t thinking about you at the time.

It wouldn’t be any better if it was in a hotel or somewhere else but there is a special kind of creepy in knowing he screwed her in my bed then let me sleep in the same sheets later that night. Eeuw.

diana L
diana L
9 years ago
Reply to  Scoops

Well, I think having sex in your home or bed shows that you don’t feel any sense of guilt. It doesn’t even bother you to see reminders of the person you vowed to love forever.

The OW/OM who agrees to have sex in the home has to be either desperate and willing to put up with anything or somehow thinking that if they get into the home it means the cheater cares about them.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  diana L

Marking their territory, like a dog peeing on another dog’s porch.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Scoops

It only matters in the sense that the cheaters truly amp up the betrayal by bringing the OP into your own bed. No . . . we wouldn’t feel better if they kept it on the down-low, but the fact that it was so blatantly disrespectful and downright mean DOES make it worse. Considerably so in my opinion.

It’s bad enough they’re doing it, but when they take more pleasure in bringing the OP into places you consider “safe”, yeah it stings.

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

RK,
There is no safe with these faux people because there no boundaries.

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

there are no boundaries.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Yeah I know . . . But you don’t realize that until you find out who they are.

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Ain’t that the truth RK!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

When the cheating happens in the home, in the marital bed, in the chump’s vehicle, with a friend or relative or neighbor of the chump, with someone from church or the teacher from their kid’s school or the Scout leader—that is all amping up the betrayal because now it’s not just a secret affair, it’s a double betrayal. “I know something you don’t know. I’m cheating on you. And I’m cheating on you with someone you know or love or have to see every day. Or I’m cheating on you and bringing the hyena in the house to show how little you matter–even your own home isn’t “safe.” They aren’t just breaking marriage vows; they are breaking the most fundamental trust people need to have in each other to live together safely.

I know a woman who daughter tried to burn the house down at night, with the family sleeping inside. How would those people ever close their eyes at night, knowing this girl tried to kill them in their sleep? These cheaters are on that same page. That’s why I am now convinced that it isn’t solely about sex or “true love” or marital problems. This sort of cheating is about power. CL says it well, as always: “Sex isn’t the high, deceit is the high. Power and humiliating others is the high. Control is the high.” I also think that’s why this sort of betrayal is so hard to recover from. You not only find out the person you love has broken vows and promises to be sexually and emotionally faithful; you find out that they are capable of hurting you in the deepest ways without thought, without concern, without remorse.

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

You said it right, LaJ. When I lived with cheater before D-day I would startle anytime someone walked in the room. I had images that someone was going to shoot me. I have none of that now. None. His deception to relentlessly breach my basic safety was excruciating. And when I cried he was tisk tisking and tapping his iphone.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
9 years ago
Reply to  Scoops

Young kids tend to be a little narcissistic. Sure, they can have empathy, but they think the world revolves around them to a large extent, and the empathy goes right out the window when “something important” to them is a concern: their successes are unequaled triumphs, and their failures are unparalleled and unmitigated disasters 🙂 Plus, getting to the next level on that video game may be the most important thing that happens all week .

That’s normal in kids. It’s even normal in teenagers. I bet you were a bit narcissistic as a kid 🙂

In adults, it’s a problem. Part of becoming an adult is understanding your own limitations and the commonality of human suffering, and becoming more humble and more empathetic.

kb
kb
9 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

When I and my siblings were very young, and when we thought the world was crashing in on us, or that “everyone” would look at us funny for some kind of idiotic mistake we’d made, my father used to tell us that we needed to look at things “sub specie aeternitatis,” which means “from the aspect of eternity,” and that we needed to look at what we’d done from a more objective perspective. Sure, we might have goofed, but the universe doesn’t revolve around us. What seems major right now won’t be in twenty years.

In retrospect, I’m not sure of the wisdom of having small children know the Latin phrase well enough to use it in everyday conversation…:P

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  kb

I think your dad is cool!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  kb

That would make a nice little wrist tattoo. 🙂

Seeingthelight
Seeingthelight
9 years ago

Dear Chump Lady, I want to commend you on a wonderful interview. You had great insight in the responses to the callers.

It takes some of us who have been drinking the kool-aid extra time to understand that there can never be true reconciliation. Kool-aid not only provided by the cheater that the affair didn’t mean anything, cheater wanted to end the affair but was afraid I would find out but yet still fing the ap in my personal and private space, family advisors validating cheater’s intent and implementation to seek other aps meant that the current affair was coming to an end – “the cheater couldn’t love the ap bc the cheater was planning to cheat on the ap, (isn’t that f’ed up and yet I take comfort in that fact) but also groups of chumps preaching to other chumps to reconcile knowing there will be and have been other DDays, taking solace in now “knowing what red flags we missed and not to miss them again.” The kool-aid helps to maintain these cheaters in the double life they believe they are entitled to and we chumps created and supported that entitlement. As a fellow chump I tried to clean house out with the old -the old bed- and in with the new- as if my house is not or was not sullied. A spackle of paint should take care of that as well as a good wash of the sheets, blankets, towels or a white sale at Bloomies. It takes a chump some time to clear the fog out of their head to see how f’ed up thinking this is the way I should live my life knowing that my spouse is a sociopath and will f me over again given the chance.

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago

THAT was the study I was talking about, thank you!!!! It was driving me crazy not remembering where I saw it.

Yep. Wackos. The Cluster B disordered are the most frightening and destructive humans on the planet. Yes, they are mentally ill, but they ENJOY it. I don’t think onewould find many mentally ill people who PREFER to be that way!

I think that as soon as we all accept this simple fact—that these people not only CANNOT be cured or managed…but that they will fight to the death to prevent any such change (consciously. it’s not as if they are blind and ignorant of the consequences oftheir behavior.). The rivers of tears, the screaming and fighting and cajoling…the billions spent on MC and IC and the exabytes of emails—-all explainingand bargaining with them—all to no avail.

My X is this blogpost to the Nth degree. Blowjobs and God knows wht else in the family vehicle…then puts our kids in said vehicle just hours later. Fuckbuddy in my house. I am hearing now that he paraded her all over town…daring anyone to say something to him or to me.

And he’s not one bit remorseful. The defiance knocked the breath right out of me. Like TimeHeals said yesterday….they are the mental equivalent of 5 year olds.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
9 years ago
Reply to  buttercup

Yes, the disordered are proud of their ability to lie, con and cheat their way through life, and they feel contempt for those they fool. The morning after Dday, ex proudly told me, “I love the way I am, and I would never want to change.” I suspect that’s how all disordered really feel, my ex simply said it out loud.

PattyToo
PattyToo
9 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

My X said- I love me!
So how come he’s hatin’ life, now that he’s in charge of himself? Everybody, him included, says I was the only thing keeping him in a normal, functioning life. How can he be so proud about himself, and also know he fucks absolutely everything up, including things he was handed on a Silver Platter?
Oh, yeah, he’s a Wingnut Freak.

Sammie D
Sammie D
9 years ago
Reply to  PattyToo

shortly after d’day mine told me that he had made his peace with God and the affairs were now in his past and that he did not understand why I was so upset. He stated “I just don’t get it?”

mine claims he never had anyone to our home, though I do think otherwise. He did confess to fantasizing about others while in bed with me. Yep I got the sick and twisted one.

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago
Reply to  Sammie D

Ahhhh yes. The fantasizing/thinking/dreaming of others while with you. I got the prime opportunity to read and hear for myself in his own words to f**buddy how she was 24/7 on his mind. While living in my house, talking to me, talking to our kids, interacting with my family and his, spending my money, sleeping in my bed, having sex with me.

Uh huh. First of all, attempting to be The Thought Police, is not only serving them kibbles on a silver platter (because you have to keep asking, “What are you thinking, sweetheart?)—it gives the cheater the absolutely AWESOME ammunition to prove that YOU are wacko and not him.

“She keeps at me with wanting to know every thought I have! I can’t stand it! I have no basic human privacy! I HAD TO FIND SOMEONE WHO WOULDN’T DO THAT TO ME!!” Or the one I like most….”You treat me like a CHILD!”

You WILL be the nutty one, people WILL circle the wagons for him against you, if you go down that road. It’s tempting, I know. I kept my mouth shut about it, but what was seen and heard cannot be unseen and unheard. Those words will ring in my ears forever.

Being the Marriage Police is one thing…GPS, keyloggers, PIs…that’s tangible and you’re forced into doing it if you think you’re going to “reconcile” to any degree (it’s human nature). But Thought Police? Sweetheart, it’s over. Stick a fork in it if you EVER hear yourself asking him/her “What are you thinking?”

It will eat you alive.

Here’s what I say to this man who claimed also to be “good with God” on this whole cheating thing—-then let God forgive you, because I don’t have to. It’s HIS job, not mine. It’s an easy cop out—because there is no work to be done when asking God for forgiveness, is there!! XH bestowed God’s forgiveness on HIMSELF, because he said so!

whodathunk
whodathunk
9 years ago

Huh, well, the study sure does explain the $35K KOTD (King of the Dipshits – crowned thus by a dear friend) lost at the casinos! To add to the delusion – he didn’t have an AP, per se, he was just fucking a gal he met on eHarmony! Well, until she figured his ass out & dumped him. So did his next victim… So guess what? He has no one now! He’s such a flaming sack of victimhood no one wants to be around him. So, guess what – he’s “lonely”! So he goes to the casinos where he pays someone to be nice to him (dealer, pit boss…) & pisses away our marital assets. Then complains to anyone who will listen that “she won’t give me any money”. Umm, no, I take enough money to pay for food & shelter for YOUR CHILDREN & leave you enough to pay your bills. He then chooses to spend that money at the boats then bitches that he doesn’t have enough $$ for gas in his car. The delusions just keep on coming!!
This is the guy who couldn’t keep the affair a secret. He had to let me know all about it – because if I didn’t know, how could he gloat about all the women who want him so bad? What good is “pulling one over on you” (one of his favorite catch phrases) if I don’t know I’ve been duped? So he would keep the secrets until he needed to hurt me, then would whip them out for the big reveal. HE chose to move out – that sexy bachelor pad for all his conquests, far away from my prying & meddlesome eyes. Now? Now he bitches about how he’s living in squalor ($960/mo uh, no, those are nice). The shine came off that pretty darn quick.
Thanks Tracy & Chump Nation for letting me vent – I think I needed that!

Debbie L
Debbie L
9 years ago
Reply to  whodathunk

My stbxh couldn’t wait to tell me about his affair either…needed to be able to gloat about how desirable other women think he is. Before he confessed, I did have some suspicions, but just didn’t know for sure until he didn’t come home one night. When he finally showed up the next day around noon, I waited to see what he said and what excuses he offered up. His first words to me were “I’m losing so much weight, my clothes are falling right off!!” As if that would explain everything. He then told me he had met someone else and that I could still live here and help him run his business. I filed for divorce as soon as the lawyer opened his door for business the next morning!!!

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Debbie L

Debbie L – my stbx also couldn’t wait to reveal so many details the night he decided to confess. Oh my God – he was SO relieved the ‘game’ was over. Now he didn’t have to lie anymore. I couldn’t believe his relief as I’m sitting there in horror hearing many more details than I cared to and wasn’t asking about. (hey, I stayed very very calm, listening to every detail) Over the next 3 wks he kept dribbling more details…almost like he was proud of them. I fucking could have hit his head with a full wine bottle when he smirked about some of the places he fucked her.
This is real sicko stuff.
(btw – your H is out all night and all he can offer up is his pants are falling down? Must have left his belt behind? ha ha)

AnnieW56
AnnieW56
9 years ago
Reply to  Debbie L

My XH had a business too. He took the other route. He changed the locks on the doors and the password on the computer even though I was the one who tried to keep the books (he was a cheater in business too). Then when we went for depositions, he complained that he had to hire an accountant because I was no longer keeping the books for him so he had added costs because of me. Say What?

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Debbie L

“He then told me he had met someone else and that I could still live here and help him run his business.” Now there’s a heaping helping of entitlement, served up with a shit sandwich. Glad you opted out right away.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I think that lines deserves a cartoon –> “I’ve met someone else but you can still live here and help me with my business.”

Scoops
Scoops
9 years ago
Reply to  whodathunk

I know it’s not “meh” but it’s nice when the karma bus hits em!

mzmama
mzmama
9 years ago

When his emotional affair was blooming into what would be his exit affair, he traded ad time at his radio station for class time in her yoga studio. He took me and our 2 daughters to her studio for free yoga classes while he was fantasizing about doing her. Lots of fun for him (I imagine) to watch her bend over while watching me try to match her – my own little Pick-Me dance that I didn’t even know I was doing. It’s taken me 2 years to be able to do yoga again without feeling nauseated. Downward Facing Dog, indeed…

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  mzmama

omg MzMama – that made me puke a lot in my mouth. Sickening. Totally fucking sickening.

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Reading all the stories here and remembering what I went through is just mind blowing. How many of these freaks are there? I couldn’t even dream up this kind of shit if I were trying to be evil. It’s all so demented and totally unforgivable and completely unimaginable. The cruelty and depravity is beyond twisted.

Who needs to watch horror movies or read Stephen King, just come here for a read and this shit is all real.

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Deborah, I wonder that same thing myself. Books and statistics I’ve read put these sociopaths at about 3% of the population. I think we all have to understand that yeah, we chose them, but we were also TARGETED by them. It wasn’t like we just found one and said, “Oh hey! This looks fun!”

They mirror what you want. They say anything to get what they want. They morph into whatever it is that they have to be in order to get where they need to go.

NORMAL people don’t do this. It’s why you and I are not friends with everybody on the fucking planet!! If we all did this, we would all be just mirroring each other like one big circle jerk!

It’s why we are here, and they are not. They don’t seek help or explanations or grieve like we do. They don’t experience the normal gamut of emotions that we do.
It’s a good thing that we don’t understand it, Deborah. I would be frightened for myself if I did.

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  buttercup

Amen to that last line Buttercup!

I am not by nature a jealous person and never have been nor am I a nosy person which I guess is what saved me and made it so much easier for me to walk away from my crazy 2 days after D Day. Finally, I listened to my gut and got away to protect myself. Needless to say, I completely fell apart after walking away. I was traumatized because I spackled so much and had been manipulated so much and witnessed behavior I never experienced before and didn’t know which way was up or down. I had PTSD, I would throw up in my mouth in the mornings shortly after, I was having panic attacks, didn’t miss a day of work and lost 8 pounds almost immediately and smoked like a chimney.

I couldn’t understand how I let myself get into this situation with an admitted sex addict (HELLO HUGE RED FLAG) fairly early on in the relationship, of course after we had slept together several times, which I waited to do after about going on about 8 dates to make sure I felt something for him (fyi, he wasn’t even that good in the sack and did in fact have a very small penis, actually he seemed kind of clueless to the erogenous zones of the female body and in the beginning had to take viagra every now and then but not later on in the relationship (HELLO RED FLAG!)) and I was already emotionally attached after being loved bombed like crazy (HELLO RED FLAG) and was completely snowballed into believing he took care of his addiction with therapy and anti depressants, the anti depressants he was still taking when we were together. Thank goodness I declined the invite to live together. I said I wasn’t ready and had to wait and see.

The shit I bought from this master manipulator who by the way I wasn’t even attracted to in the least when we first met. After I was talked into a second date with him because he was smooth and confident, it was like a switch went off in my head on the second date and I was telling myself to give him a chance, he seemed cool, we had similar interests and a similar love of off center humor, film and music (Hello, No CHARACTER COMMONALITY HERE). We knew three people in common. One of who was a friend who new him through another mutual friend of theirs and told me she thought we wouldn’t be a good match because she thought he was socially awkward (ANOTHER RED FLAG) before we went on our first date. We were in different ends of the same business.

The point of all of this is that shortly after the end, I was JEALOUS OF HIM and the fact that 3 weeks later he found another chump who he told me he was emotionally unavailable for but she really liked him. LOL. He continued to try and hoover me 6 months after I left both directly and indirectly through other people as I blocked him immed. on facebook and ignored emails most of the time. Then it finally and thankfully stopped.

I was so jealous of the fact that he had no emotions and could just keep on rolling along and having fun with a new chump so fucking quickly and with no interest in her or emotional investment. Same as he did with me and everyone of the perhaps thousands that came before me including massage parlor hookers and straight up hookers and hookups, Including 3 longterm relationships prior to me one of which was his wife of 20years and 2 kids (poor things). The other two long term relationships actually stayed friends with him. NOT ME, I am not that much of an idiot!

I was not jealous in that I wanted him back as I never wanted him near me ever again but I was jealous that he could rebound so quickly and continue on his merry way while I felt completely destroyed and was so furious with myself for allowing this to happen to me. The anger I felt at myself for being so incredibly stupid in begin chumped by such a loser was the worst kind of humiliation imaginable. He was a sloppy, lazy fat pig who totally got over on me and I was jealous of him! Can you imagine that? I went into therapy for 3 months and unfortunately my therapist was not equipped to properly handle this and ran to my gyno for full testing twice, once right after and then again 6 months later. I wasn’t having fun at all.

The funniest thing is that CL’s website started about 1-2 months after my relationship started. Wish I was reading this then.

Now a year and a half later, I accept the many valuable lessons learned from this after seeing evil cruelty straight in the eye while ignoring my gut with every twitch it had at all red flags along the way which started on the first date. Has it made me a better person? Not sure yet, been working very hard on that. Do I like myself more, hell yes!!! I am my own rip roaring MOMMA BEAR NOW.

Did I learn my hard lessons well? HELL TO THE YES on that one.

Will I be a repeat offender to not properly protecting myself going forward? HELL TO THE NO.

The best part now in looking back is that it all is so crystal clear that it is just funny. The red alarms were spinning and whirling from the beginning and I just trotted along trying to figure it all out and see where it would go while having fun sometimes and feeling loved sometimes and loving back sometimes. It’s just good to now be able to laugh at the ridiculous of it all and know that I would never fall for such obvious toxicity again.

It’s like saying goodbye to the blind version of me who now has 20/20 and laughing at the blind me as I see all the obvious walls and curbs I walked into and fell over while blind that are clear as day now.

Ok, I think I am done now, thanks for reading and my apologies for just throwing all of that up but it was necessary and it felt really good!

I wish how I feel now for everyone who isn’t there yet. It’s a great place to be after this crap and you can and will get there!!! It ain’t easy to do but it is doable.

Peace and Love, no bullshit!

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Girl crush on Deborah! You totally rock!

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  Deborah

Deborah, I wholeheartedly second what you just said.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  mzmama

Sigh. Yes, let’s bring my wife and children to the studio of the woman I’m fucking. It’s repulsive. Honestly, what the hell is the point?!

Fucking nasty hyenas . . . that’s what they are.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago

CL, you are really on to something over how little these people think about the MESS that they create, and the consequences they inflict on other people. Yes, wondering whether you are going to ‘reconcile’ or to divorce, handling the impact on the kids – none of this is thought about, and of course they are never going to get caught.

I am someone whose husband put a bullet right between the eyes of our marriage, when he brought OW into our house, would have supper with her, walk her past and invite her to admire the happy, smiling INNOCENT little faces of our 7-12 year kids, and then fuck her in their and our beds.

How can you do this? I will never get it. It has to be a giant FUCK YOU, not thinking about the mess, and maybe unconsciously wanting me to end the marriage.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

Patsy – that is deeply disturbing. And in a place like chump nation, where we all have so many disturbing stories, I mean that is deeply, DEEPLY disturbing. Any man who gets turned on while in his child’s bed is a sick fucker.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

And if anyone else ask why you divorced this nutjob, you say, “He brought another woman into our home and had sex with her in our children’s beds.” That’ll shut them up.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago

Hey CL, can you post the link, editing out the song and the intro, to when you start talking? I would like to post it on my FB.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yes, there were two sound bites that were especially interesting that could do with separate links: one, when spouses are blamed for contributing to the cheating and the absurdity of that,

and then the second when you and Dr Simon are talking about character disorder, how the person-centred approach DOES NOT WORK with them and the therapist just gets played like everyone else, and how they need to be benignly confronted, paradoxically the only chance to earn their trust . I would like to present that to my psychology department.

Rose
Rose
9 years ago

I have a sicko, for sure. In some ways I do think that is easier than having one of these charming cheaters that other people on this site talk about. He is not fake and charming. He just comes accross as totally odd, which helps me.

About three weeks ago, I got a Preliminary PO and last week I had to go back and argue for a Permanent PO. I had to do this on my own…after spending about $10,000 on attorneys the well is dry and I am self-representing while I care solely for our toddler. He (of course) had another fancy attorney with him and lots of witnesses and exhibits. He even had before and after pictures of me when I cut my hair really short after I had the baby. This was entered as evidence- a very short haircut- ?? But, this is the guy who documented my weight gain from a size 8 to a size 14 post-baby as alienation of affection…[update on this. He’s gained about 45 pounds since the split so he gets weird looks when he tries to present my weight gain as evidence]

Anywhoo, so, I got to present months of documentation of all his weirdness. 1) He flies from where he lives in another state when he does not have visitation, rents a car and follows me around. He’s done this multiple times. 2) He texts and calls me repeatedly if I don’t have him blocked, despite having several DIFFERENT legal teams on his payroll doing various things like: fighting child support, fighting the custody agreement: suing me for a share of the house I owned before I met him and my parents’ money. Even though he’s trying to destroy me legally, he insists upon calling me almost every hour just to chat. About life. About how I’m doing. 3) He broke into my storage unit and stole my son’s baby book….I could go on and on. Sick, weird stuff.

So, finally I got to stand in front of a judge and just speak my truth. I presented everything, bullet point by bullet point, with all my documentation, and I spoke in plain English. After I was done, his lawyer got up, entered about 27 things into evidence, examined witnesses and finally put him up on the witness stand- and you know what? He stank of sicko. Idk- you can just tell that he’s mostly a fake autobot person without normal feelings inside. Despite all his money and his lawyer and all his evidence- he lost. I got the Permanent PO, just me on my own in my plaid loafers from Payless with my bullet-point presentation of sicko weirdness.

Stand up Chumps! Speak your truth! It moves me so much that I was able to speak truth to the judge and she helped me and saw and smelled his sickness, and I didn’t have to pay a dime. That’s real justice.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

Rose – omg – now, that mightiness absolutely made my day. Thank you!

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

“And what kind of FREAK uses your pregnancy weight gain (NORMAL!) as ‘alienation of affection?'”

Yeah, because nothing says Lack of Affection like carrying your baby for nine months, risking life in childbirth, and ensuring the existence of your family into the future.

Rose, you are a True Chump Badass. I’m not a huge Maya Angelou fan, but one of her quotes applies here:

“I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life’s a bitch. You’ve got to go out and kick ass.”

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

That made me grin, nomar. Well, snort and grin.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

Awesome Rose! He sounds like a nut-case. I’m glad you’re being careful.

I just had to ask though, what was his “evidence” regarding your short hair cut? And weight gain? He actually presented this shit to the judge?

Rose
Rose
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

So, the weight gain thing is like his flag in the sand. It’s literally the first thing in every booklet of evidence or affadavit or declaration. I’ve seen it about 55 times now. It used to make me weep with shame, but now I am so over it. It’s a letter between us that talks about how much weight I gained, and how my breastfeeding (my son is mostly weaned now, but I was a crunchy attachment mama and he breastfed at request until about 18 mo) is disgusting and how he can’t bear to have sex with me because of fat and milk everywhere. It has zero legal significance. I think he includes it to be mean, but I CAN’T believe his lawyers include it. It has helped me time and time again. It always hurts him. Usually people are appalled when they read it. Appalled. Especially as I am just not that big. There’s a muffin top. That’s about it.

The haircut thing was new. After the second D-Day, I went to my parent’s house in Maine and I cut my hair very short- almost a buzz cut. So, he showed before and after pictures of me and his lawyer said that showed mental instability because “my head was shaved.” It was bizarre. When I cross-examined I asked him if he could see hair on my head in the picture. He said yes. I said “So, is it shaved or is it just very short?” He agreed it was not shaved it was only very short. Then I said “Do you think women who cut their hair short are all mentally unstable?” and he said no. Then the judge said out loud “I don’t think this hair issue is relevant.” It means nothing.

I am coming to believe that his lawyers just take money from him and dance for their paycheck. I don’t think they even expect to win. They just put together a book of his nasty stuff to make HIM happy so they will keep paying him. They don’t care if the judge thinks it’s BS- he pays and so they do what he says.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

Well, no wonder he loses. Holy cow on on a cracker, he’s nuts. Berating a new mother for weight gain and breastfeeding? “Fat and milk everywhere”? He’s lucky some female judge hasn’t locked him in a psycho ward. Keep on going to court pro se, with your little muffin top and your hair, short or long, and make sure you wear nice “mom” clothes. He’ll get nuked flying his abuser flag.

kb
kb
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

I bet you’re right. I also bet his lawyers probably told him that pregnancy weight gain and breastfeeding would not be good items for alienation of affection. However, his money is coming in, and while they should just cut him loose out of ethical concerns, they’re still for hire. Maybe over time he’ll figure out that he’s got an unwinnable case. 😉

blue
blue
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

That’s great, Rose. You kick, ass.

My XH, too, had blabbed on and on in his affidavit about irrelevant stuff like how I had posted to Marriage Builders after finding out about his affair and how I had asked to switch offices at my workplace when I was pregnant because I was concerned about the health of my unborn baby due to potentially toxic fumes, and my XH tried to use all this as evidence that I was “mentally unstable.” I also wondered why his lawyers just let him blab on like this (didn’t make him look good), but they just probably gave in to him, as he is the client.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

Mental instability . . . that’s some funny shit. Amazing that X doesn’t see how presenting stuff like this makes HIM look crazy. He sounds like a complete jackass.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

YOU are a role model!! Great work!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

Rose, you are mighty! And brave! While the legal system regarding domestic relations (divorces, support, alimony, property distribution) is cumbersome, too often biased against the chump and not designed to protect the innocent against sickos, it is a wonderful thing that you can go into alone, present your case, and be heard and taken seriously by a judge. The good ones see a lot of “sicko,” often spackled up by their legal teams. So glad that you got a good judge, an honorable judge. Hope the rest of your legal issues with this nutjob resolve in your favor as well.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

I am so proud of you Rose! I know how hard it is to go into that court, every time I went I was shaky, so much harder without a lawyer. You Rock!

It cost me nearly $10K to argue for my “permanent” PO and the judge had to postpone all other cases, ours went all day long. I did win it, even though my lawyer thought I would lose. Unfortunately in my state a “permanent” PO is only two years, so I had to go before a judge last year for renewal, got it, have to go again next March. I hope I get it despite his not violating it since the last renewal, ex scares the shit out of me.

blue
blue
9 years ago

Thanks, CL, for another great post. This “high,” duper’s delight, is why the cheater ends up cheating again, just to get that high again. The cheater mistakens the high for romantic feelings and “true love” for the AP. This is why affairs typically crumble or end in years of misery after the affair is exposed and the chump steps out of the triangle (no one to dupe anymore).

My XH actually let it slip that he particularly enjoyed the fact that the OW was from the same country and went to the same college as my mother (my mom has a lot of college pride), to get back at her for “looking down” on him and perceived slights she apparently made to his ego. He also let it slip that he was thinking of having the OW babysit our kids (we were looking for a new babysitter at the time). Wouldn’t that be fun? My entrusting our kids to someone XH was having a secret relationship with!

I also know a woman whose friend would text her every time she had fun with her new “f*ck buddy.” Turned out the new “f&ck buddy” was the woman’s husband.

This “high” also explains why my XH was pretty open about the affair, e.g., taking the OW out in public to restaurants near his place of work, taking her to the opera, parties, museums, etc., but at the same time became enraged when I told XH’s family and friends about the affair. These cheaters like to live dangerously, close to the edge, but at the same time don’t want to be exposed for all the world to see.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  blue

blue, you raise an interesting point. I wonder if they do “confuse” their high for “true love” or romantic feelings. I wonder if they have any frame of reference at all for anything other than the high. I know that less than 6 months before Jackass started up with his MOW, he was telling me I was his “true love.” They were only 90 days into their EA/PA or whatever when I caught him. She was whining about her broken heart on social media 6 weeks after that. I think when they use the word “love,” it means, literally, the feelings of excitement they get when starting a new clandestine affair, or receiving lots of kibbles from some situation. Let me tell you it’s a giant step toward meh to understand that they can playact what looks like love but can’t sustain it. They are a different species, in terms of their emotional capacity. I’m convinced that dogs and cats can love, that animals can love their offstpring, but these disordered cheaters are missing that component from their makeup.

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

In my XH’s case the ‘high’ is the Deal. He falls in ‘love’ over and over again and can do it within a matter of days. He’s madly in love with one woman and true blue, often for years, until he finds some OW who he love bombs the hell out of and falls ‘madly in love’ with and then he’s off on his next Big Romp. These people run off with each other without knowing credit scores or what kind of socks the other ones wears within weeks. Because it’s Twu Luv dontcha know.
And they all they they’re special until they find out they aren’t. This guy is incapable of bonding. No oxytocin?

nic
nic
9 years ago

My husband’s sicko behavior was a bit different. His mother treats him as HER spouse, she’s always been creepy physical with him, I’m an outsider. The ow (an EA he still swears) looked just like my MIL (her boss) and had had a weird thing going on with MIL’s now dead husband. So as I explained to dipshit, you and your very gross dead step father shared affections with the same woman – he got into bed with your mother afterwards, you got into bed with me, everyone lying to everyone – that’s sick sick sick. And the ow? She must have some weird thing for my MIL, to have been inappropriate with her husband, then her son. Do I need to hide my sons and nephew? She’d also been married to her husband’s brother before she cheated on him. Do you hear the dueling banjos cuing up? I’m called snobby when I say they are all like hillbillies, but I mean c’mon. Actually I’m not sure which of these jackasses gets the sicko crown, they’re all so deserving, so we’ll call it a 3 way tie (dead guy can’t be in the running), and they can share that creepy shit too. The best part is that my lousy relationships with all the mentioned parties has always been due to my judging them and not being accepting. Gag. Im going to run down the street screaming now.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  nic

nic – I’m so sorry you post was so awful what you’ve got throught but g’damn it – did I get a huge belly laugh out of it. It’s all nuts!

Scoops
Scoops
9 years ago

This sounds too unbelievable. What a sick-o

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago

My ex came directly from sex with his OW to me crying and insisting on sex and reconciling. I fell for the bullshit tears, I really did not want to have sex but finally gave in. Not going to say how I am sure (TMI) that he came directly from her bed to mine, and I mean directly. I realized later what was wrong when I discovered the STI. That knowledge haunted me and disgusted me for a very long time. I know now he got some kind of sick thrill out of it. How many times had I told him over the years that the one thing I would never forgive was if he fucked someone else and fucked me? So he did it in the most egregious way he could find, a way guarantee to infect me too. Sick fucking bastard.

ThatGirl
ThatGirl
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Yes that type of behavior is deliberate and sick. That is a this is who they really are moment.

My ExH once came home from work with his OW’s crotch juices on his mouth and let me kiss him. When I caught a whiff and asked him what was that smell, he lied and said he had a hoagie. I bet he had a real good chuckle at my expense that day.

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  ThatGirl

ThatGirl…I hope you took him for everything you could after that. WTF? Really? He made you smell that? I can’t even imagine some of these stories. I thought my asshole XH was a cock schmooch but he almost sounds like Prince Charming compared to this sadist. Mine fucked and left.

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

Never made me smell nothing.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  ThatGirl

What a pig.

She puts the “HO” in hoagie.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Indeed.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Sorry ’bout that, Dat. Equal parts sick and gross.

My ex SWORE during false reconciliation that she had NEVER been with an affair partner and me on the same day, and because the hopium level in my bloodstream was a google parts per million, I believed her and tried to take comfort (!?!?!?!?) in that fact. Looking back, it occurred to me: 1) WHY would I believe anything said by someone who admits to a double life of cheating with multiple partners over the course of many years? And 2) Who really cares? I mean, it’s not somehow “closer” to faithfulness to only fuck affair partners on the days when you don’t have sex with your spouse. It’s cheater logic, is all, Which, BTW, might be a great topic for CL in the future (“What idiotic rationales did your cheater give you for the “rightness” of their stupid decisions?”)

ChumpDad
ChumpDad
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I tried looking at the calendar and W’s cell phone bill to see if she was at OM’s place the same days we had sex. I can almost guarantee it on several occasions. Until W moved out we were a 2-3 times a week couple and I know now she was at his place many of those times. From what I understand she always had sex with him each visit… because it had been such a long time since he was in a real relationship.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Now here is a textbook case of someone who absolutely intended to harm you. So sorry you were violated physically and emotionally by this sicko. But what a useful textbook example for all of us who know instinctively that the behavior was intended to hurt us (the lies, the gaslighting, the verbal abuse, the infidelity) but can’t believe that someone who said they loved us would intend the hurt and the humiliation.

chump indeed
chump indeed
9 years ago

Yeah, the other day’s post got me thinking about that too. I have pretty solid evidence he took her at our house and cottage. Several times. She probably borrowed some of my stuff there. It’s totally discusting and I feel violated.

What really bothers me is that I’m six months post divorce. I have known this for quite some time and somehow I blocked it from my mind until last week. It’ been a year since I left. The whole year was just like that: epiphany after epiphany of horrible stuff.

I don’t understand what happened to me. I have values, I’m educated, I’m tough, but I could’nt deal with that kind of betrayal so I just… forgot??? Honestly, It’s scaring me that my own mind is such an unsafe place…. I’m afraid it’s going to happen again.

buttercup
buttercup
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

Chump Indeed, I did the same thing, for years. When I sought help I was told that it is a form of Dissociation. It’s a coping mechanism, and completely normal, unless it begins to manifest in suppressing memories and you go on with the harmful situation.

You’re not crazy and you’re not abnormal. Your mind is doing everything it can to protect you. But now that you understand the situation for what it is–abuse—you have to do something to protect YOURSELF.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

chump indeed – I look back at SO many things today. That I laughed off then. His 20 yr class reunion? Came home w/o skivvy’s on – said he was cooking eggs with his h/s friends until 5am (45 yr olds stay up that late?). Totally believed it and his entire family laughed about it over breakfast the next morning.
(here I am saying, God – what a red flag this many yrs later)

Then, the ‘biz partner’ he went on many trips down south with. Til she committed Hari Kari. Oh! The neighbor. Jeez, that was innocent until I was actually sitting at her kitchen (she was a great Italian cook) and started modeling her g-strings to Greg in front of me. Blatant. I must have missed something there.
He’s like – hands up – can’t help it, she must be crazy (and she kind of was) also committed Hari Kari and rumor around town was H dumped her. It was too bizarre to believe.
Just believe there is always truth to a rumor. I guess. (it’s called, you’re the last to know)
I’m so mad at myself for missing a lot and as much as I’d like to think he only had this one ‘exit affair’, my gut tells me a whole different story and I believe my gut over anything now. That’s a pretty good lesson we were blessed with – gut instincts.

I think when it all came down, it was the tip of an iceburg and I don’t want to know anymore about it. Fa la la.

Good luck – ChumpIndeed – instincts and gut. Get to know them well. They are a gift.

chump indeed
chump indeed
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

Thanks you all for your replies. It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one experiencing this.

I’m glad I’m out, but this year has been an emotional roller coaster for reasons I never expected. None of what is hurting me now were reasons why I finally filed. It’s weird to realise that the reasons I had at the time were the proverbial three hidding the forest in my mind…

Thanks again chump nation!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

I haven’t forgotten anything he did to me . . . but I notice for some reason in the mornings I have the sadz over it. It’s almost as if my brain forgot the last horrible 8 months and I have to wake up and remember it all over again. Once I’m completely awake I’m OK, but I’m really looking forward to the day that this doesn’t happen anymore.

I actually sit on the edge of my bed and say, “Yes RK, he’s a rotten cheating fuck. No, RK, it doesn’t matter if you thought you had good times. Yes RK, keep moving forward.”

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I love reading your posts RK and get a large charge out of you. I know how hard it is to be okay after this shit. I can just tell you’re a good person and I’m sorry that we’ve had to live this shit show. I still get the sadz too and it’s been way longer than a year. I’ve yet to meet another partner and the odds are getting longer every day. My roof is leaking and the deck needs replaced and I wonder how I’m going to afford these major repairs. I get so pissed that my XH left me old to figure this shit out all by myself. I mean why didn’t he leave me when I was 35….when I stood a pretty good chance of finding a new partner?
The only thing I know what to do is forge on as ForgeOn says and do the best I can and be as happy as I can be. And hey, I live in Washington and the fun stores opened last week. Haha! Always something to be happy about.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

Can I make a tiny suggestion? If you do nothing else, stop thinking about finding anybody and focus just on you. What does Syringa like? What makes YOU happy? If you’re like me, you really have to think about that at first. I really couldn’t focus on anything because I’d get hung up on thinking, “I’ll never find anybody so what’s the point.”

I found a few things that I’m pretty amped about. One dream in particular was one I had when Asshole was still around and I almost ditched it after he left. Then I thought, fuck it, I’m doing it anyway. There’s no reason we are not equipped to have happy lives on our own, and I don’t think anybody finds a mate if they think the HAVE to be with someone to be complete. So first thing, you’re fine on your own. You really are. I’m pushing 50. Menfolk aren’t even on my radar right now, though I love them and think it might happen one day. :).

Second suggestion . . . Look up Habitat for Humanity in your area. Maybe they can help you out. Don’t get stressed over that stuff, it’s just a house. I need a roof too, and a number of other things I don’t care to stress over. It does me no good to worry about it, I just try to figure out ways to improve what I can. It’s more difficult after my household income went down over 50%, but fuck it, I’m doing it. :). I’d much rather be where I’m at right now than live with a liar. Life is good because it’s mine and I’m free of the bullshit. Wooo!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Great suggestions, Rumblekitty. I’ve finally started to be really happy on my own, after a year. I was scared to death about the money end of things, at 62, but I have a little 403B account (401K for non-profits employees) and I’ve tapped it to do essential things because I see my house as my real retirement. Luckily, I will be able to work in my profession well into my 70s, if I stay healthy. But I’ve decided not to worry. Just live. I wrote a list of what I wanted for myself in January and first item was a kind man. I wouldn’t run if one turned up, but now I am so busy with work, the yard and gardens, and other stuff, I just don’t think about getting into a relationship. The other great part about that is as I find solutions to problems and do things to make me happy, my confidence and self-respect grow deeper. I know that I can handle things.

One thing to think about if there is a lot of work to be done on the house is seeing if you can refi at a decent rate and take a bit of equity when you do to cover those big ticket items. Sometimes, if you refi for 15 years instead of 30, you save enough on interest to make taking out a bit of equity a wash. You might be able to get a few extra years out of the roof with just repairs or new shingles. It might be worthwhile to get referrals for good roofers and then ask them if repairs could extend the roof’s life. My furnace is getting old but my HVAC guy figured a new motor could get me through a few more years and I can start putting some $ aside for that repair. Getting estimates for stuff is a good way to learn more without having to lay out money. But for sure, I totally understand how hard it is to face this stuff with no safety net, and no rope to make one. But as Rumblekitty would say, doing that stuff can give us the fabled lady boner!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I’m not sure I really want to date seriously yet. I’m not afraid, but honestly I’m really liking having my life my own again. I like doing what I want on the weekends; if I want to sleep till noon, I can. If I want to watch my shows on Netflix all day and play games on my computer, I can. My house and garden would have me busy with projects till the end of time if that’s what I want. I feel like I’d be a horrible girlfriend right now because I just want to focus on me.

Tessie
Tessie
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I’m with you, Rumblekitty, I love owning my own life!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

And what’s a Fun Store!?!

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

RK…I’ve been single seven long years and learned to be so dang resourceful. Habitat is not going to help me. I make too much money. haha. (I’m a rich school teacher)
I’m getting bids this week for a new roof and I’ll start saving until I can pay cash. I hired a guy to come and smear some goop on the roof until then. Good old Goober Goop!! What a life saver for poor single women every where! Goober Goop!!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

That’s what I basically had done to a leaky part of my roof too. I had a friend put a tar patch on a bad spot and it’s gonna have to hold for at least a year so I keep my fingers crossed. 🙂 Every month or so I crawl into the attic to make sure its still holding lol. So far so good . . .

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Me three! Yes, RB, he did do that, no RB, that wasn’t true, yes, RB, he is a pathological manipulative creep.

I think it is important for me to continue feeling the grief and rage at the moment because STBX continues to send me text messages and emails telling me how much he regrets his behaviour, how sorry he is for hurting me, how he wishes he had never lied to me and how he doesn’t know who or what he has become. It is difficult not to get sucked into it sometimes, but then I find out about another fucked up thing he is doing (having the skank sleep over at his house while my son retreats to his bedroom and refuses to come out the whole time she is there) and it reminds me that all of his apologies and regret are pure manipulative image-control.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Rosie Boa

Can you change your number or block him? I would hate that shit.

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

RK – we share custody of one of our children so I do need to be able to contact him in an emergency and vice versa. The I’m So Sorry Etc messages don’t get to me as much now – I used to want to believe them but now I run everything through my bullshit translator and I know he is:

a) trawling for kibbles in the form of sympathy
b) trying to maintain his image as a Good Bloke
c) wants something from me
d) trying to keep me in play in case the hyena-skank starts cheating on him
e) seeking more drama as their life together is not so exciting now that both their spouses have kicked them out and they are no longer star-crossed-lovers-who-are-prevented-by-cruel-fate-from-being-together
f) all of the above

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Rosie Boa

Oh OK . . . yeah hard to do when you share custody. But I’m glad your bullshit translator is working. 🙂

Rosie Boa
Rosie Boa
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

🙂

lovehonorcherish
lovehonorcherish
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I’m really relating to your posts today, Rumblekitty. When I first open my eyes in the mornings, for a few seconds anyway, it’s all good. Then my new reality comes crashing into my consciousness and I feel overwhelmed with grief, sadness and emptiness. I have to force myself to get out of bed, get the dogs outside and fed. Usually by the time I’ve exercised and showered for work I feel much better but honestly…sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever feel like me again!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago

You will. I mean there’s a huge difference in how I am now compared to how I was. The more time goes by, the better I feel. I know I won’t be healed overnight so, I try to just roll with it. We have those things called “feelings” unlike the hyenas.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

omg, RK, I say the same thing! Except I say, “Yes, ML, he’s a rotten cheating fuck. No, ML, it doesn’t matter if you thought you had good times. Yes, ML, keep moving forward.”

No kidding!

hahaha

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

At least it’s not as bad as it was in the beginning. Now I’m not immobilized by it. Before it would just floor me each morning and I’d have to put a cold washcloth on my eyes for a couple minutes so I wouldn’t look all puffy faced when I got to work. Now I get a little sad, but I still keep moving and after the initial icky feeling for a couple minutes, I’m pretty good.

I’ve internalized that he sucks so much that I don’t really cry over it anymore. I’ve actually tried to squeeze out some tears but my brain wouldn’t let me. She’d say, “Nope. He doesn’t deserve those. Save it for something or someone who matters.”

I talk to myself a lot. 😉

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

That’s a huge part of grieving–the waking up and recalling that the world we though we lived in is forever altered. And remember–as CL says it’s your history, too. You did have good times, because the one with the capacity for love and joy was you. Your good times are no less real because he can’t experience that stuff the way you do. And the day will come when morning is a joy again.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

Chump indeed, I’m doing the same thing. I’m in a weird denial, almost. I have to remind myself quite often of what he did because I find myself “forgetting” it.

It’s made worse by the fact that I am still attracted to him and that he is now being kind to me. (Not in an attempt to get me back, he’s just finally being decent.)

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

ML, he is being decent because he has got what he wanted, and you are no longer of use. He has his citizenship rights, and your money.

What’s there not to like?

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

Yes, Patsy, he’d love it if we were to become “good friends” and put all this nastiness behind us. I won’t do that because it lessens what he did to me.

I think he’s primarily being nice to me right now because he needs me to win his lawsuit. When it’s over, he’ll show his true colors again.

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

ML….I’ve been reading your posts here for weeks and I don’t think for one minute your XH is a decent guy. Please don’t fall for his shit. It’s all pretend make believe. He’s not FINALLY being decent. A person doesn’t do what he did to you and ‘finally’ decide to be decent. It’s some kind of con game again. He must not be done with you. Go NC and stay that way. You’ve come this far.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

Thank you, Syringa. It’s weird how getting a kick in the butt from you guys actually feels good. My own judgement is still quite off at times. It’s good to hear the truth from others.

Can’t go NC until his lawsuit is over because half of that money will go to me. It’s the ONLY way I have to get back on my feet. That said, there’s really no reason for me to spend more than a couple of minutes a week talking to him to touch base.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

Syringa, great comment. ML, the only decency in this equation is your own. NC really is the only way, especially if you don’t have kids together. Sending you strength and hugs.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

Thanks, FMT. It’s appreciated.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

I second that. Not for one minute.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Thanks, LaJ. I need to hear this.

Supreme Chump
Supreme Chump
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

chump indeed, I don’t think your mind is an unsafe place. I do think that “forgetting” some of this is part your body’s natural defense mechanisms. I really believe that. I have gone through some stuff (this particular stuff does not involve my h’s adultery) where upon looking back it seems like I was a bit removed from the seriousness, the gravity of what I was dealing with. I understood things, but it seemed I was “away from the closeness of the situation”. I have come to really believe that this was a defense mechanism at work that allowed me to do what I had to do and not just stumble through the days. I really believe having this strange distance helped me to not be overwhelmed.
This is what I think has happened with you. Don’t be scared. It’s just that now you might be in a better place to deal with this.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

I’m no therapist, but it sounds to me like you’ve experienced massive trauma and blocked some of it out. When I was 12, my mother stopped talking to me. My memory is that it went on for months and months. Now I can recall how awful that felt, how I kept thinking “now she has to talk to me” only to find out that she wouldn’t. How would a person forget that? But once the silent treatment was over, I blocked that out for 20 years, until another event triggered a flashback (the horror of PTSD). I was actually in a therapy group when I had the flashback, which started to open up a lot of other memories that needed to be faced and put away appropriately. If you find a highly competent therapist, you can do the work of surfacing these memories. It has nothing to do with what kind of person you are or that your mind is “unsafe.” The mind, like the body, will try to protect you. You had “epiphany after epiphany of horrible stuff.” Just as you would go to rehab for a physical injury, you can go to a good therapist to work through a traumatic experience. For me PTSD is a lifetime deal. My insurance provider sent me to one of their psychiatrists for an eval to see whether they should continue to pay my therapist. Their shrink said I would probably need therapy for the rest of my life. And of course, they won’t pay, in spite of that eval. But to me, it’s worth it. I just keep peeling back each new layer as I learn more about myself and how to live the great big life I am determined to have. There’s nothing wrong with you. You’ve been run over by the crazy train. Now–recovery.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  chump indeed

When my ex nearly put my head through a wall and I defended myself, those minutes were 100% blacked out of my mind. My blocking that memory, in real time was a key reason my ex was able to get me arrested that night. I literally didn’t remember he was about to maim or kill me. It took a skilled hypnotherapist to give the memory back to me, reliving that memory was horrific but I needed to know. I probably should have let it come back on it’s own but I couldn’t move on without knowing. When I asked my therapist what the hell was up with that, she told me my subconscious mind was trying to protect me from the pain of the betrayal. I told her my subconscious is an asshole! I can (almost) laugh at that now…so yes, your subconscious does try to protect you. Don’t be scared, you get those memories back when you can handle them.

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago

My Cheater suggested to me that he and I start watching “House of Cards” on Netflix, during the summer of 2013. Every night we watched an episode of “our show,” as he referred to it; and every night after watching the Kevin Spacey character fucking the young little journalist and then go home to his unsuspecting wife, my Cheater would stand up from his recliner, say “Love you! Goodnight!” to me as I went upstairs.

Then he would whip out his cell phone and start texting his OW, and they would text or sext or whatever, nightly, for hours while I slept upstairs preparing for my busy day at work the next day earning the money for the mortgage payment, the food, and even the cell phone that Cheater was using to text his OW. Wow, what an exciting life!!! I hope he likes it now, so exciting!! a year later, he has no place to live, spends half his time in the OW’s house that is up for sale, and the other half in the home of the “friends” that are the only two people I’m aware of who feel sorry for him after I threw him out.

SICK. He also did brag to me that he brought her here to our (my, paid for) house. In shock, back then on D-day a year ago, I asked him in horror, were you and she discussing “us” or me, while you were standing in our bedroom… and he said, “Oh no the only thing she said about you, Muse, when standing in the bedroom was ‘where are all the girlie things?'” Now, I will never know whether this took place because so much of what he has said turned out to be utter lies. But WTF? Seriously?

Seriously SICK.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

The Muse – hand up, relating big time to this. H was so into Mad Men he bought all the episodes and watched them over and over again. Also, loved House of Cards. I hated the latter and tried to watch the former but I didn’t like the way H liked both shows so much, like an obsession. (repeats – give me a break, it’s tv) All that cheating he resonated with. Maybe it inspired him! Stud that he is.. He wanted to be Don Draper – or James Bond…made the martinis just the right way, had the wife – had the mistress….you know, BIG MAN.
I can so relate to their t.v. watching. I’m a documentary person so maybe after 35 yrs we weren’t really connected then, huh?

ANC
ANC
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

The TV watching thing is weirding me out after reading your comments. I’ve always felt asshat intensely ID’d with fictional TV characters. Like having an emotional relationship with an fictional person.

His love for some shows was and is INTENSE. Yeah, I believe he thinks he’s so Don Draper. I know he and OW both are heavy TV watchers. I’m not. Never have been. Too much stupid stuff on every channel. That was a big connector between his LT affair vs his random fucks.

Just learned over this past week too in passing that OW’s interest in “literature” – 50 Shades of Grey- were acted out by them. Don’t get me going on how this shit came up. But I basically said, NO FUCKING SURPRISE: two idiots with the collective IQ of 4 whose great bonding occurs over soft porn, hard porn would indeed reenact scences from that classic novel.

So take the lowest mental denominator, find a skankable partner and start living your ultimate fantasy life based upon FICTIONAL characters.

Linda2
Linda2
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

TheMuse, so you paid for everything too? My CH used me that way too. He wasn’t even man enough to pay for his own survival, yet he thought he deserved cake and kibbles!

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

LovedaJackass, I don’t even really think she said that. I don’t even really think she was here in our house. He’s a sadistic pathological liar. He makes things up on the spot just to be cruel and apparently, making me feel “unfeminine” was the best he could come up with hence “where are all the girlie things?” Over the past year, more and more layers of the putrefied rotten onion have peeled away and I now know he was cheating on me from day One. of 16 years, that yes, Linda2, I was financially supporting him while he was cheating and verbally and sexually abusing me. Sadz, indeed!!!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

“Where are all the girlie things?” I could seriously slap that bitch. Reading on this site is like a great grad school course in how sick people devalue those who love them and how their equally sick APs play out their side of the pick-me dance. And your X is beneath contempt.

singed
singed
9 years ago

Yes, definitely describes my STBX. When I asked if he just assumed I would keep forgiving him over and over, he said “well obviously I thought you’d never find out!”. As far as getting off on the double life, oh yeah. He would tell AP’s that we were separated in order to “get them on the hook.” He made them fall in love with him and promised marriage and children in the future, and then told me: “No! I never actually intended to do that! I would never divorce you! I need you, I couldn’t live without you!” When asked if he ever right about their feelings, no response. And yes to secret sexual encounters in our car.

As far as public humiliation, check! Because he never mention he was married to his professional colleagues so that he could have an affair with a peer, when I did meet someone, he wouldn’t introduce me or they’d look at me confused and say “you must be newlyweds?” The icing on the cake of humiliation: after D-Day, she donated to an online kickstarter campaign to help with cost to record his new album. At the level she donated, she received a song of her choice covered by STBX. His recording studio was in our house, so I had to hear him recording a song for (one of) the OW for weeks. It didn’t occur to him how degrading this was to me, it was just another way to show me I wasn’t the boss of him. Yeah….a special kind of f-ed up.

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  singed

So funny that he said “I need you.” My Cheater told one of his OW that he couldn’t leave me because my kids needed him! Him who provided no financial support for me or my kids! On D-day, I was so devastated I begged him to stay with me anyway, and still have his fling with OW, and he said “No, Muse, I already ran the sharing idea by her and she wouldn’t go for that.” And “I was arguing with her! I am fiercel
ey loyal to you, Muse! I told her I couldn’t leave you because YOU NEEDED ME.” Pretty obvious he flipped that around, as it’s clear he needed ME, for $$$$ and kibbles.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

God Muse – that last post just blows me away and I think it’ll take a day or 2 to recover. Just, wow.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
9 years ago

My ex is a passive-aggressive coward with mommy issues. I really believe he despised me, and so fucking the OW twat in our family truck and in secret motel rooms, and all the secret texting were his “fuck you, you’re not the boss of me” moments. He says it never happened in our bed, but then again, he’s a liar.

And, of course, affair partners are like the basest of all creatures, lifting their legs to mark their territory, taking great delight in watching their filth seep into your life, unbeknownst to you–unless they are the especially cruel sociopaths who do it overtly, and delight in staring you right in the face as you realize you’re being stolen from, and they know that you know there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Miss Sunshine

Miss Sunshine – and then they follow up all that basest of creatures (like after they fart) with a big fat smirk. I’ll just never forget the fucking smirks. My bitch just pissed all over your bitch things. Have anything to say? smirk

nomar
nomar
9 years ago

Transgressive behavior by my ex? Yeah, had some of that. For instance, fucking at least one and likely two of my groomsmen (including my “best man”), fucking her boss (in his marital bed and in my car) and accepting gifts from him for our youngest son, having me aggressively negotiate her buyout from a company she co-founded even though she was being kicked out for dragging her extra-marital affairs (still unknown to me) into the workplace.

But I think her Magnum Opus Mind-Fuck was sending one long time affair partner to me for free advice about his teenage son’s drug arrest (I’m a lawyer). That was her perfect triangle of cheater sadism: I was duped into assisting her affair partner and championing his cause, and he was forced to accept guidance from his mistress’s more-knowledgeable husband about how to fix his fucked up family situation. I’m sure her drawers were damp with the thrill of it for several weeks running. As CL said, it’s good to be puppet master.

Yup, the woman had more issues than *The National Geographic* (or *The National Enquirer*).

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Jeeze-oh-hell-oh-bells Nomar….I am so sorry you got stuck with this crazy mean ass bitch.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Nomar, that is horrible. Truly horrible.

What DRIVES these people?

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Once again, nomar, thanks for adding to Chump Nation’s lexicon: “Transgressive behavior.” “Magnum Opus Mind-Fuck.” And–for the win: “the perfect triangle of cheater sadism.” I read on a local blog where the blogger has a “lexicon” post. Once CL has a chance to catch her breath post-publication, it would be nice to start keeping a list of these gems, with exemplars, as posters tend to come and go.

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago

CL, I think the info about people playing cards and some people not being able to see past the play in their hands is an interesting one. My ex seemed to have some pretty delusional ideas about the ramifications of his actions. He truly believed we would still be great friends and do things as a family. It’s like he had no emotional understanding of how his betrayal would affect me. Even my oldest son said “Dad doesn’t seem to have a clue about how these things go.”

So many people have told me my ex would be sorry and regret what he’s done. I’ve never believed this. He didn’t even grieve over the deaths of his grandparents, or seem very emotionally connected to his parents. Once I asked him if he ever thought about his grandparents after they passed and he said “No.” On the other hand, I grieved my grandmother’s passing for years! My ex’s motto towards relationships seemed to be “out of sight, out of mind.”

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
9 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Me too for these:
“My ex seemed to have some pretty delusional ideas about the ramifications of his actions….It’s like he had no emotional understanding of how his betrayal would affect me.”

Though I would add, my ex seemed to be surprised by how it affected everyone, and I still don’t think he realizes the far-reaching ramifications.

-and-

“My ex’s motto towards relationships seemed to be “out of sight, out of mind.””

I have come to realize that I think my ex’s mind is like a dry-erase board, and the new person (OW) wiped out our history completely. Immediately. Right after dday, he was unable to remember some basic things about me. It was really weird, and I worried for a while he had something wrong with his brain… Then I realized he just couldn’t be bothered to waste energy remembering things that no longer served him.

ANC
ANC
9 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Yup

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

My ex also seems very surprised not just by the ramifications but also by how it doesn’t just go away in a few weeks or months. At one point we were talking on the phone about some financial stuff and got into an argument (he was screwing me over as usual). It devolved into a shouting match about what happened and what I was slowly finding out. His response? ‘It’s been four months! Why aren’t you over this?’. We had been together for 20 years and I had found out he’d been screwing around for years and I was facing complete financial ruin but hey! Four months! Get over it!

His reaction has remained similar towards the kids and anyone else who ‘isn’t over it’. Something wrong with the people who got hurt, nothing with him or his choices. He doesn’t seem able to understand why quite a few people want nothing to do with him and have written him out of their lives due to his choices and actions. I used to think he was just tone deaf. Now I think he’s simply fucked up.

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Nord, I relate to not “getting over it” fast enough. My MIL was pressing me to “move on with my life” just a month or so after D-day. She had been through divorce with several of her other kids and was acting like she knew all about it and how I should handle it. I told her she might have been around divorce, but she hadn’t experienced it, so she didn’t know what she was talking about. She was truly shocked that I was so upset. Of course I think her son had told her our marriage had been over for YEARS She actually said “it’s all okay because he’s going to split his retirement with you.” Gee thanks, what a generous gift. It was beside the point that the LAW would have made him split his retirement with me whether he wanted to or not.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Northern Light – that comment completely resonated with me. Thank you.

Nord
Nord
9 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Weird. When my ex’s grandparents were dying I kept encouraging him to visit them. We actually had an argument about this because he flat out refused. They died, he went to the funerals and they were rarely mentioned again. Very, very odd.

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  Nord

My wife was very reluctant to visit her mother in hospital, not at first, but when it became obvious she was actually dying. She visited her the day before she died — the hospital called and asked her to, but it was the first time in a week.

NoMoreLies
NoMoreLies
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

My STBX was with the OW, supposedly on a work-related trip when his father was dying. I called him and told him he should leave immediately, but he said he wouldn’t since he had seen his father within the month. I thought his hesitation was because he was afraid to be with him in his last days, but now I know he didn’t go because he was with the OW. In the previous months when his father was ill, he visited him for a few days, but then took vacations with the OW – of course I thought he was with his father. He used his ill father as a cover to vacation with her. A decent woman would want him to be with his father so she is so self-centered too. They are made for each other.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreLies

Just when you think you’ve read it all here…

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

The sad thing is my daughter is the same way as he is. A complete lack of empathy. I wonder if it’s hereditary? It’s something that bothers me. A lot. To see one of my children with one of HIS traits. *ouch*

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

@ ANC
This is true in my case as well. X’s family was a big pack of hyenas too. Every one in his immediate family cheated and doesn’t really see anything wrong with it since they all do it. Mom and Dad cheated, the kids helped cover for them and even became involved in some of mom’s crazy antics with her OM. I could go on an on . . .

I remember as I started finding out about them, I really got the creeps. When I think back, this was when I began to worry about what this fucker was capable of with me. Gut was screaming, and my gut was right.

ANC
ANC
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

What’s modeled in families tends to be repeated. This is a FACT with asshat and ALL of his family members.

That’s absolutely why I had him tell every fucking single family member about what he IS with me present. Every.Single.Brother has cheated on their spouse. SIL blatantly stated she keeps her head in the sand. MIL is supreme splackling chump who told me to stay in this marriage because she thinks ” the bones are good”. What’s good are the excellent manipulation and mindfuck techniques employed by her children along with a dose of sociopathy to make it thrilling.

I am seriously beginning to consider therapy for my kids after witnessing their father treat me like shit for their entire lives and me believing his bullshit abuse.

awareb4
awareb4
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

It does run in families as Narcissists/Sociopaths breed & proliferate their mindset to their kith & kin. I have seen it firsthand & was appalled at the levels they go too keep the family secret of disgusting behavior.
The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree that’s for certain in my view!

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

Another weird thing was the day 911 happened. People were closing shop early, leaving work, generally wanting to be with their loved ones during the trauma. On that day I was at home with a sick child and I wanted so much to connect with family. My ex didn’t call, and ended up working late that day. The thing that most upset him about 911 was that the football games were canceled for a week. I thought his reaction was so strange. I tried to communicate how upset I felt after 911, how I felt our country had permanently changed, and he kind of chuckled like he thought I was being overly dramatic.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Good grief, Lyn. I can relate to this behavior so much. My H never reacted to all the terrorists things that happened in this country like I did. (don’t need to mention them, we all know them). I had t.v. obsessively on, bawling…and he was looking at graphs on computer. But, 9/11 stood out particularly. He was out of the country with his mom in England – I was home alone (US). When I finally got hold of him in my panic like we were all experiencing he actually only said, “See, I told you this would happen. We’re in 487 countries messing w/them”. And he implied it was something our country did wrong. I was completely floored then and that one stays with me. He had no concept of what it meant to me/us, the country. I dunno – weird. Don’t talk to me about Waco…

Supreme Chump
Supreme Chump
9 years ago

There are many ways our cheater/sickos get off on humiliating us. Besides his affairs, my h’s other most favorite way is that he has withheld sex/ intimacy from me for years. Talk about humiliating and painful. I would go to him crying about how we had to fix that part of our marriage. Now I know that he was totally getting off on that.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Supreme Chump

The Jackass loved this particular tool in the cheater sicko toolbox. He used it to end his first marriage (or so I think, since he is upfront that he withheld sex on the honeymoon with that poor girl). And I have my own sad experiences with that once he started up with MOW. That’s another reason why I think it’s not all about sex. It’s power, control, humiliation, and “you’re not the boss of me.”

TheMuse
TheMuse
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

My cheating Ex never withheld sex until about two weeks before D-day when he suddenly claimed I was snoring so loudly that he needed to sleep in the guest room. Prior to that we had plenty of sex, always the way he wanted it. After D-Day, I did the Pick me dance so intently that I came right out and begged him to fuck me. His response, like a cold Robot: “No, that would not be fair to all parties.” WTF? Then he elaborated, “OW said she wouldn’t mind and that she understood ‘it might still happen’ but I don’t think it would be fair to her.”

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Oh, awesome. By all means, let’s be mindful of fairness issues as they apply to skanky OW! I’d laugh if it weren’t so disgusting. Talk about an oxymoron! “It wouldn’t be fair to her.”

Muse, this just makes my heart ache for you.

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

My wife withheld sex on our honeymoon. You’d think I would have taken that as a sign, but no.

Syringa
Syringa
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

ANR….ooohhhh. That’s bad.

Shechump
Shechump
9 years ago
Reply to  Syringa

ANR – you got off fairly easy. I went from honeymoon of him w/holding sex to 35 yrs later. Boy, should have got off that train a long time ago. But, he just wanted bj’s or hjs. (sorry tmi) but it makes you really ask yourself why you gave up so much of your sexuality for this marriage. I’m really knocking my head on the desk here. over…and over..

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Holy. Shit. What a complete and total asshole.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

I asked Jackass over and over why his first marriage failed. Having been divorced myself, I did big post-mortems on my own contributions to the marriage ending (usually concluding that knowingly marrying an alcoholic was at the root of the problem, Ms. Codependent….) but he had nothing to say about that marriage beyond that story. That behavior seems to me to be a big power move, a cruel sort of rejection that puts the one doing the rejecting in the driver’s seat, forever. “Cross me and I will cut out your heart.” My X (the drinker, not the cheater) denied sex on the honeymoon in another way–being too drunk for it. It’s not as cruel, just hugely selfish. You deserve so much better than this. And so do I and our Chump Nation friends.

ANR
ANR
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“a cruel sort of rejection that puts the one doing the rejecting in the driver’s seat, forever”

You got that right, LAJ. And it really worked — that was 13 years ago and I haven’t told anyone that until now. It seemed like my shame to carry, AND I didn’t want to cross her.

echo
echo
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

ANR, It’s not your shame to carry. It is completely hers.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  echo

Echo’s right, ANR: it’s not your shame to bear. Yet, I totally get what you mean.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  ANR

There you go. Let me tell you, from me and from Jackass’s first wife, who’ve been there, done that: it wasn’t you. It takes a very screwed up person to rob her new husband of that special time. It wasn’t you. It was her.